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| tangchen | Hi all, may I ask something about CI ? | 07:06 |
|---|---|---|
| tangchen | I have setup my CI, and it seems to work. | 07:06 |
| tangchen | But when I use git review | 07:06 |
| tangchen | send a patch to openstack-dev/sandbox, CI connection is fine. | 07:07 |
| tangchen | But jenkins doesn't run the noop-check-communication test | 07:07 |
| tangchen | zuul log gives this: | 07:08 |
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| tangchen | 2015-07-22 11:44:28,680 DEBUG zuul.Scheduler: Adding trigger event: <TriggerEvent comment-added openstack-dev/sandbox master 203912,1> 2015-07-22 11:44:28,680 DEBUG zuul.Scheduler: Done adding trigger event: <TriggerEvent comment-added openstack-dev/sandbox master 203912,1> 2015-07-22 11:44:28,680 DEBUG zuul.Scheduler: Run handler awake 2015-07-22 11:44:28,681 DEBUG zuul.Scheduler: Fetching trigger event 2015-07-22 11:44: | 07:08 |
| tangchen | It seems too long...... | 07:08 |
| tangchen | Please refer to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/203941/ | 07:09 |
| tangchen | Fnst OpenStackTest CIis my CI. | 07:09 |
| tangchen | But noop-check-communication test didn't run. | 07:09 |
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| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 08:06 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 21 08:06:30 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:06 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:06 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:06 |
| anteaya | hello | 08:06 |
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| anteaya | sorry I'm late | 08:06 |
| anteaya | anyone here for the third party meeting | 08:06 |
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| anteaya | tangchen: hello | 08:11 |
| anteaya | tangchen: you need to make sure that your system doesn't submit the merge failed message back to the patch | 08:11 |
| lennyb_ | anteaya: Hi | 08:11 |
| anteaya | hi lennyb_ | 08:11 |
| anteaya | tangchen: that is just noise about your system and doesn't help devs | 08:11 |
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| anteaya | lennyb_: how are you today? | 08:12 |
| lennyb_ | anteaya: thanks. how are you today? | 08:12 |
| anteaya | tangchen: I don't see enough information to know why the test didnt' run | 08:12 |
| anteaya | lennyb_: well thank you | 08:12 |
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| anteaya | lennyb_: and you? | 08:12 |
| tangchen | anteaya: Hi, thanks for the reply. | 08:13 |
| tangchen | But I don't quite know how to stop it from sending merge failed message | 08:13 |
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| lennyb_ | anteaya: I am ok, but it's still early to be absolutely sure | 08:14 |
| tangchen | And could you please tell me what info you need ? | 08:14 |
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| anteaya | lennyb_: I understand | 08:15 |
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| lennyb_ | tangchen: sorry, I missed the start of the discussion, are they valid merge failures or it's a environment issue? | 08:15 |
| anteaya | tangchen: well for starters you are responsible for however your system interacts with our gerrit, so if it posts a comment you have to make sure it is a comment you want, not just anything your system produces | 08:16 |
| anteaya | so you have to ensure it isn't posting merge failure comments back to our gerrit | 08:16 |
| anteaya | before you move off of the sandbox | 08:17 |
| anteaya | and thank you for using the sandbox | 08:17 |
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| lennyb_ | anteaya: I think it's part of the CI, if merge fails for a good reason CI should report about it. | 08:17 |
| anteaya | lennyb_: no, the comment merge failed isn't helpful | 08:18 |
| anteaya | build succeeded or build failed | 08:18 |
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| anteaya | telling someone they need to rebase their patch isn't the role of a third party ci | 08:18 |
| anteaya | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-meeting/%23openstack-meeting.2015-07-21.log.html#t2015-07-21T07:06:20 | 08:19 |
| anteaya | tangchen was an hour early for the meeting | 08:19 |
| lennyb_ | anteaya: I am not sure that zuul can filter such things, I will check it | 08:19 |
| anteaya | well we have told other operators not to post such messages | 08:19 |
| anteaya | and they have accomplished it | 08:19 |
| tangchen | Hi lennyb, anteaya: OK. I understand. But I dob't know how to config it to not to send such messages. | 08:19 |
| anteaya | tangchen: thank you, and that's fine | 08:20 |
| anteaya | you might have to run your own filter script | 08:20 |
| anteaya | so that if your system produces such a message you don't send it | 08:20 |
| anteaya | we don't need such a filter for infra so I doubt it is a configuration that can be set with the tools | 08:21 |
| lennyb_ | anteaya: but this script should be integrated with zuul.... | 08:23 |
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| tangchen | lennyb_: Yes, I think this is a good idea, and will be much easier to use. But again, I'm sorry, I don't know what a filter script looks like. | 08:25 |
| anteaya | lennyb_: if you would like to offer a patch then folks can offer their opinions | 08:25 |
| tangchen | Is it a shell or python script which I need to write myself ? | 08:25 |
| anteaya | tangchen: yes | 08:25 |
| anteaya | it would be a script you write to filter messages before they are sent to gerrit | 08:26 |
| lennyb_ | I will consider this, since we are experiencing such problem from time to time. | 08:26 |
| anteaya | lennyb_: thanks | 08:26 |
| tangchen | I think I can offer a patch since I want to join into CI development as soon as possible, | 08:26 |
| anteaya | tangchen: thank you | 08:26 |
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| anteaya | tangchen: get something working on your system first and then offer a patch to gerrit | 08:27 |
| anteaya | tangchen: thanks for your enthusiasum | 08:27 |
| anteaya | :) | 08:27 |
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| anteaya | tangchen: so as to why your zuul doesn't trigger a job | 08:27 |
| anteaya | I would need to see the full zuul log for that event | 08:27 |
| anteaya | do you know paste.openstack.org? | 08:28 |
| tangchen | wait a min | 08:28 |
| anteaya | you paste the text into a window | 08:28 |
| anteaya | and then bring the url of the paste back here | 08:28 |
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| anteaya | to the meeting | 08:28 |
| anteaya | don't paste into the channel | 08:28 |
| lennyb_ | tangchen: if merge failed there is no reason to run a job | 08:29 |
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| anteaya | lennyb_: but did the merge fail or is that the default message the system is sending out | 08:29 |
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| anteaya | but you are correct, if the merge actually failed then the job wouldn't run | 08:30 |
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| lennyb_ | anteaya: according to the message merge failed. We saw the same message when merge failed indeed. | 08:31 |
| anteaya | good | 08:32 |
| anteaya | it just isn't a message that is helpful to devs | 08:32 |
| anteaya | from your system | 08:32 |
| tangchen | http://paste.openstack.org/show/394824/ | 08:33 |
| anteaya | because is the patch actually needs to be rebased, Jenkins will tell them | 08:33 |
| lennyb_ | anteaya: this message comes from zuul developers :) | 08:33 |
| anteaya | tangchen: thank you | 08:33 |
| tangchen | Please refer to this url | 08:33 |
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| anteaya | lennyb_: right because zuul was written for infra, which needs to post the message, not for third party ci, which doesn't | 08:33 |
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| anteaya | tangchen: that patch adds a new file with no content | 08:35 |
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| anteaya | tangchen: while that should be enough of a change to allow the patch to be tested, perhaps you can add some content to the file for testing purposes | 08:35 |
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| tangchen | wait a min please | 08:36 |
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| * anteaya waits | 08:37 | |
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| anteaya | lennyb_: anything you wanted to talk about today? | 08:38 |
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| lennyb_ | anteaya: no. | 08:38 |
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| tangchen | http://paste.openstack.org/show/394844/ | 08:40 |
| anteaya | okay, thanks for being here and helping tangchen :) | 08:40 |
| tangchen | here, please | 08:40 |
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| anteaya | okay so you created a job and you can get it to run locally but you can't get it run on your patch | 08:41 |
| anteaya | in your zuul/layout.yaml file | 08:42 |
| anteaya | you need to ensure the job is on the repo being tested | 08:42 |
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| anteaya | for instance on the cinder repo for infra's tests, these are the job names that zuul knows about: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/project-config/tree/zuul/layout.yaml#n1646 | 08:43 |
| anteaya | if the job isn't in the zuul/layout.yaml file, zuul doesn't know about them | 08:44 |
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| lennyb_ | tangchen: you also need to check in zuul.log what happened. If your changed was 'noticed' by zuul and what was decided. | 08:44 |
| anteaya | doesn't know about it (it == the job) | 08:45 |
| anteaya | lennyb_: good point | 08:45 |
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| lennyb_ | you can increase debug level of zuul and gearman plugin ( if you use it), but in general zuul debug log provides you with enough info about it's steps | 08:46 |
| anteaya | we have about 15 minutes remaining in the meeting, I just want to ensure you understand this is a meeting channel tangchen, not a channel for general questions | 08:46 |
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| anteaya | tangchen: what project do you want to test with your ci system? | 08:46 |
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| anteaya | once it works | 08:47 |
| tangchen | anteaya: For now, just build the CI system and test sandbox | 08:47 |
| anteaya | oh okay, well I ask because finding an operator who also tests the same project is helpful for you | 08:48 |
| anteaya | so you have someone to ask questions | 08:48 |
| anteaya | and a channel to have the conversation in | 08:48 |
| anteaya | as the -meeting channel is for meetings only | 08:48 |
| tangchen | Sorry for that and thanks for the info:) | 08:49 |
| tangchen | Would you please tell me where is the best place to ask questions ? | 08:49 |
| anteaya | tangchen: no problem | 08:49 |
| anteaya | right, I'm trying to do that | 08:49 |
| anteaya | the best place to ask is in the channel of the project you want to test | 08:50 |
| anteaya | as someone is probably already successfully testing that project | 08:50 |
| anteaya | so you can find them and they can help you | 08:50 |
| anteaya | you can ask in -infra but sometimes we get too busy and can't be as helpful as we would like to be | 08:51 |
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| tangchen | OK, thanks. I'll check what you said above to see what the problem is. | 08:52 |
| tangchen | And BTW, what does a meeting mean ? | 08:52 |
| tangchen | what should I do in a meeting ? | 08:53 |
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| anteaya | we are in a meeting right now | 08:54 |
| anteaya | are you using irc from the web browser? | 08:54 |
| anteaya | and meetings are all structured differently | 08:55 |
| anteaya | here is our channel logging page: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/ | 08:55 |
| anteaya | it has links to all the meetings we have | 08:56 |
| anteaya | you just starting asking questions an hour before this meeting | 08:56 |
| anteaya | and most meetings are held at a time which is convient for north americans | 08:56 |
| lennyb_ | ok, sorry, but I must leave now. see you next time | 08:56 |
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| anteaya | lennyb_: thanks lennyb, see you next time | 08:56 |
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| anteaya | but I have this one specifically for people who have the sun in the sky now | 08:57 |
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| anteaya | tangchen: if you are using irc from a web browser I suggest you install an irc client | 08:57 |
| tangchen | OK, thanks. | 08:58 |
| tangchen | :) | 08:58 |
| anteaya | tangchen: I find x-chat has a client of all 3 major operating systems | 08:58 |
| anteaya | and I do believe is open source | 08:58 |
| tangchen | Sure | 08:58 |
| tangchen | OK, I'll install it | 08:58 |
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| tangchen | Bye :) | 08:58 |
| anteaya | okay thank you tangchen | 08:58 |
| anteaya | see you next week at the same time I hope | 08:59 |
| anteaya | bye | 08:59 |
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| anteaya | it seems we are finished so I will end the meeting | 08:59 |
| anteaya | see you next week | 09:00 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 09:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 09:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 21 09:00:07 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 09:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-07-21-08.06.html | 09:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-07-21-08.06.txt | 09:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-07-21-08.06.log.html | 09:00 |
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| Qiming | hello | 13:00 |
| haiwei_ | hi | 13:00 |
| Qiming | #startmeeting senlin | 13:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 21 13:00:27 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| yanyanhu | hi | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:00 |
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| jruano | hello | 13:00 |
| Qiming | let's get started? | 13:00 |
| Qiming | hi | 13:00 |
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| Qiming | pls feel free to add agenda items: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda | 13:01 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, your hello is a little earlier ;) | 13:01 |
| lkarm | o/ | 13:01 |
| Qiming | #topic add agenda items | 13:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "add agenda items (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:01 | |
| Qiming | hi lisa | 13:01 |
| Qiming | #topic liberty-2 targets | 13:02 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "liberty-2 targets (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:02 | |
| Qiming | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-liberty-workitems | 13:02 |
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| Qiming | seems we have accomplished a lot, :) | 13:03 |
| yanyanhu | yes, progress is good I think | 13:03 |
| lixinhui_ | if any update on binding.rst? | 13:03 |
| Qiming | doc? | 13:03 |
| lixinhui_ | yes | 13:03 |
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| yanyanhu | latest unit test cover rate is 71% in my local env :) | 13:04 |
| Qiming | here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/201009/ | 13:04 |
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| Qiming | we still have some monsters to kill? | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | yes, about action and also some drivers | 13:05 |
| jruano | yes i am working on a few | 13:05 |
| lixinhui_ | I wanna try something about policy binding of node-placement policy | 13:05 |
| Qiming | lixinhui_, that would be good | 13:06 |
| Qiming | thanks, jruano | 13:06 |
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| Qiming | maybe we can target a placement policy implementation for liberty-3? | 13:07 |
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| Qiming | liberty-3 is 2015-09-01 I think | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | that will be cool | 13:07 |
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| yanyanhu | now we don't have any implementation about this policy | 13:07 |
| Qiming | it doesn't have to be a full-featured version | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:07 |
| Qiming | I think lixinhui_ has got some problems passing 'scheduler_hints' to nova | 13:08 |
| Qiming | and sometimes this is intermingled with the server-group nova api | 13:08 |
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| Qiming | as far as I know, the nova server profile has something to be hardened | 13:09 |
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| Qiming | for example, the 'networks' property might be 'nics' | 13:09 |
| lixinhui_ | yes, seems openstacksdk will transfer all attrs into server: {} | 13:09 |
| Qiming | we need to look into the nova-api to find out the details | 13:09 |
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| lixinhui_ | but scheudler_hints should be os:scheudler_hints: {} | 13:10 |
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| Qiming | okay, it would be good if we can find the latest nova api doc | 13:10 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, maybe also the trust API doc | 13:12 |
| Qiming | there are some other notions in sdk: server_interface, server_metadata and server_meta | 13:12 |
| yanyanhu | yes, I noticed that the function calls related to server_metadata are still not there | 13:12 |
| Qiming | yanyanhu, trust for api invocation? | 13:12 |
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| yanyanhu | yes | 13:13 |
| Qiming | I have proposed a server_group resource to sdk, but their acceptance of new resource types is frozen for the moment | 13:13 |
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| Qiming | I don't think trust would be part of nova api | 13:14 |
| yanyanhu | last time, you shared a link where the trust API description is a little different from the current one we are refering | 13:14 |
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| yanyanhu | yes, sure | 13:14 |
| Qiming | it is completely an interaction with keystone | 13:14 |
| yanyanhu | I mean keystone v3 API | 13:14 |
| Qiming | ah, that wiki page, I checked the history, it was written in 2013, may be outdated long time ago | 13:14 |
| Qiming | the only thing you can trust is the code itself | 13:15 |
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| yanyanhu | ok... | 13:15 |
| yanyanhu | http://developer.openstack.org/api-ref.html | 13:15 |
| yanyanhu | not sure whether this doc is updated | 13:15 |
| Qiming | for some projects, I believe so | 13:15 |
| Qiming | for others ... em | 13:15 |
| Qiming | definitely no | 13:15 |
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| yanyanhu | but I found neutron related API doc is right | 13:16 |
| Qiming | for example, you can check the ceilometer api there | 13:16 |
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| yanyanhu | ok | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | need test | 13:16 |
| Qiming | right | 13:16 |
| lixinhui_ | report a bug | 13:16 |
| Qiming | ? | 13:16 |
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| lixinhui_ | http://paste.openstack.org/show/395684/ | 13:17 |
| lixinhui_ | poor network at home | 13:18 |
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| Qiming | lixinhui_, you will check the senlin-api output for this | 13:19 |
| lixinhui_ | okay | 13:19 |
| Qiming | 500 Internal Server Error means a real problem at api/engine side | 13:19 |
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| Qiming | look for this line "Failed checking service user checking." in senlin code | 13:20 |
| haiwei_ | I found something similar like this | 13:20 |
| Qiming | you will know what happened | 13:20 |
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| Qiming | please file a but for this | 13:20 |
| Qiming | I think it could be a configuration problem | 13:20 |
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| Qiming | for example, if you are using 'demo' user in the 'demo' project | 13:20 |
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| Qiming | the user has to be configured as the 'admin' of the project, or else some keystone policies will block you from doing useful work | 13:21 |
| Qiming | if that is the case, we need to update the setup document and the devstack plugin code | 13:21 |
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| Qiming | another improvement I see is the client code, the client can be improved to understand this kind of errors instead of reporting an 'ValueError' | 13:23 |
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| Qiming | so .. please file bugs when things don't work | 13:24 |
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| Qiming | anything else for the liberty-2 targets? | 13:24 |
| yanyanhu | hi, Qiming, last time, you mentioned that maybe we can try to provide a first release | 13:25 |
| yanyanhu | by the end of liberty-2 | 13:25 |
| Qiming | with just 1 week left? | 13:25 |
| yanyanhu | em, a little difficult I think | 13:25 |
| yanyanhu | but we need a plan I think ;) | 13:26 |
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| Qiming | it would be a good practice though I don't think the release itself will change the world | 13:26 |
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| yanyanhu | sure | 13:26 |
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| Qiming | #action Qiming to investigate release procedure | 13:27 |
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| Qiming | anyway, we will definitely do a release by liberty-3 | 13:27 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:27 |
| haiwei_ | nice | 13:28 |
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| Qiming | let's think about it -- what do we want to go into the release | 13:28 |
| Qiming | we can discuss it in our next meeting | 13:29 |
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| yanyanhu | em, especially what features will be included in the first release | 13:29 |
| yanyanhu | ok | 13:29 |
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| lixinhui_ | another thing I do not know if we should do in senlin is locale | 13:30 |
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| Qiming | lixinhui_, you mean internationalization? | 13:30 |
| lixinhui_ | yes | 13:30 |
| lixinhui_ | a light one ... | 13:30 |
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| Qiming | em ... I can read a little French, a little German ... | 13:30 |
| lixinhui_ | each time I wanna run senlin on my mac, I have to resolve local UTF-8 | 13:31 |
| lixinhui_ | ... | 13:31 |
| Qiming | haiwei_ can do some Japanese I think | 13:31 |
| Qiming | UTF-8 is the standard encoding, especially for Python 3 | 13:32 |
| haiwei_ | I am using a English environment | 13:32 |
| lixinhui_ | :-) | 13:32 |
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| Qiming | we do have infrastructure to extract strings for translation | 13:32 |
| Qiming | the community has a shared project doing that: i18n | 13:33 |
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| Qiming | so far we have been transmitting and storing data in UTF-8 I think | 13:33 |
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| Qiming | okay, let's move on | 13:33 |
| Qiming | #topic update on complex (scaling) policy | 13:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "update on complex (scaling) policy (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:34 | |
| Qiming | this has been my focus recently | 13:34 |
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| Qiming | I haven't checked in any code yet, because nothing is in good shape yet | 13:35 |
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| Qiming | in this work, I'm trying to model a scaling policy in 3 sections: | 13:35 |
| Qiming | signal, schedule, handlers | 13:35 |
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| Qiming | a signal can be a ceilometer alarm, a monasca alarm, a zaqar message, for example | 13:36 |
| Qiming | but the policy will contain only a single signal entry, that is a restriction to simplify implementation | 13:36 |
| Qiming | when modeling the signal section, I spent some time studying the ceilometer alarm API doc, which is in nowhere | 13:37 |
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| Qiming | there are threshold alarm, combination alarm and ... gnocchi alarms | 13:37 |
| Qiming | properties vary between different alarm types | 13:38 |
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| Qiming | and .... I saw this command: | 13:39 |
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| Qiming | ceilometer alarm-gnocchi-aggregation-by-metrics-threshold-create | 13:39 |
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| Qiming | kind of driven crazy by this ... | 13:39 |
| haiwei_ | a long command | 13:39 |
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| Qiming | and things like this: ceilometer alarm-gnocchi-aggregation-by-resources-threshold-create | 13:40 |
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| Qiming | sigh ... | 13:40 |
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| Qiming | any way, I will try my best to make the 'signal' specification applicable to most alarm types | 13:41 |
| Qiming | the second 'section' is 'schedule' | 13:41 |
| Qiming | this is designed for scheduled action triggering, it can be used with and without a signal section | 13:42 |
| lixinhui_ | knock knock | 13:42 |
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| lixinhui_ | seems you once said ceilometer | 13:42 |
| Qiming | if there is a signal and a schedule section, it means some action will be triggered during the 'schedule' window | 13:42 |
| lixinhui_ | will change the alar | 13:42 |
| yanyanhu | yes, they have a plan to split alarm out of ceilometer | 13:43 |
| haiwei_ | to where? | 13:43 |
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| jruano | they are keeping ceilometer alarms for now until they make sure they don't break anything | 13:43 |
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| Qiming | if only 'schedule' section is provided, then the policy will take effect only during the target window | 13:43 |
| jruano | heat team almost had a heart attack | 13:43 |
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| lixinhui_ | :-) | 13:43 |
| jruano | the switch is supposed to be transparent | 13:44 |
| Qiming | yes, that is .... | 13:44 |
| Qiming | I'm speechless over that patch | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | haiwei_, a new project named Aodh | 13:44 |
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| haiwei_ | difficult to read | 13:44 |
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| Qiming | so, we need to keep an eye on that, and hopefully understand their new api design soon | 13:45 |
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| Qiming | the last section in the complex scaling policy is about 'handlers', yes, plural form | 13:45 |
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| Qiming | it is a list of actions to be triggered when some 'alarm' or 'message' is received | 13:46 |
| Qiming | the good news is that both Ceilometer and Monasca support a list of webhook urls | 13:46 |
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| Qiming | I have almost finished the parsing of the 'handler' section | 13:47 |
| Qiming | maybe I should check in a WIP for you guys to comment | 13:47 |
| Qiming | but don't +2 on it yet, cores | 13:47 |
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| yanyanhu | :) | 13:48 |
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| yanyanhu | will help to review the code one you submit it | 13:48 |
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| Qiming | thanks, that would be great | 13:48 |
| Qiming | please as picky as you can be | 13:48 |
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| Qiming | any questions/comments so far? | 13:50 |
| jruano | i like the design approach. would be nice to investigate the code | 13:50 |
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| Qiming | okay, will check in the code tomorrow | 13:50 |
| lixinhui_ | hoho~ | 13:51 |
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| Qiming | #topic open discussions | 13:51 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussions (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:51 | |
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| haiwei_ | the error lixinhui_ has reported is similar like this https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-senlinclient/+bug/1472557 | 13:52 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1472557 in python-senlinclient "cluster, profile and node can't be updated" [Undecided,New] | 13:52 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1472557 in python-senlinclient "cluster, profile and node can't be updated" [Undecided,New] | 13:52 |
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| Qiming | one thing above my head is about the talk proposal | 13:52 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1472557 in python-senlinclient "cluster, profile and node can't be updated" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1472557 | 13:52 |
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| jruano | yes, need to get started on an outline and some initial content | 13:52 |
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| Qiming | haiwei_, will look at it later, thanks for reporting | 13:53 |
| yanyanhu | and anyone has decided to join the summit? | 13:53 |
| Qiming | we need a POC implementation of a container cluster | 13:53 |
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| Qiming | it won't be very difficult if you are using CoreOS guest image | 13:54 |
| Qiming | I had some experiments before, though not a cluster environment | 13:54 |
| yanyanhu | but we need a driver for this? | 13:54 |
| Qiming | it is just a nova server | 13:54 |
| Qiming | with some extra metadata | 13:55 |
| yanyanhu | oh, you mean lxc supported by nova | 13:55 |
| yanyanhu | understand | 13:55 |
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| Qiming | someone need to dive into magnum code to find out what else do they need from a VM to run containers | 13:55 |
| Qiming | no, not lxc | 13:55 |
| Qiming | magnum is building bays using nova servers (VMs) and then create containers inside the VMs | 13:56 |
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| jruano | ah i see, so just some extra nova server data | 13:56 |
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| Qiming | yes, that could be a quick experiment | 13:57 |
| Qiming | you need some k8s or docker packages in the image | 13:57 |
| jruano | i can take a look. when do you need it by? | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | with user_data and cloud-init? | 13:57 |
| Qiming | jruano, the earlier the better | 13:58 |
| Qiming | yes, yanyanhu | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu | ok | 13:58 |
| jruano | ill see if i can get to it later today | 13:58 |
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| Qiming | thanks, jruano, ping me if you need some help on starting this | 13:58 |
| jruano | np | 13:58 |
| Qiming | #action Julio to experiment with containers | 13:59 |
| Qiming | okay, time's up | 13:59 |
| Qiming | let's go to #senlin | 13:59 |
| Qiming | thank you all | 13:59 |
| Qiming | #endmeeting | 13:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 21 13:59:28 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:59 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-07-21-13.00.html | 13:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-07-21-13.00.txt | 13:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-07-21-13.00.log.html | 13:59 |
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| mestery | neutron drivers meeting in 1 minute | 14:59 |
| mestery | amotoki carl_baldwin dougwig (and kevinbenton since he;s on PTO) | 15:00 |
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| amotoki | hi | 15:00 |
| mestery | #startmeeting neutron-drivers | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 21 15:00:18 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron-drivers)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers' | 15:00 |
| carl_baldwin | hi | 15:00 |
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| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NeutronDrivers Agenda | 15:00 |
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| mestery | OK, lets get started, I'd like to just walk through some RFE bugs today. | 15:00 |
| mestery | Does anyone have any other agenda items? | 15:00 |
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| mestery | #link https://goo.gl/xtBJkU RFE bug link | 15:01 |
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| mestery | #link https://goo.gl/xtBJkU | 15:02 |
| mestery | #undo | 15:02 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0xad70250> | 15:02 |
| mestery | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1370033 | 15:02 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1370033 in neutron "Admin should be able to manually select the active instance of a HA router" [Medium,Confirmed] - Assigned to yong sheng gong (gongysh) | 15:02 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1370033 in neutron "Admin should be able to manually select the active instance of a HA router" [Medium,Confirmed] | 15:02 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1370033 in neutron "Admin should be able to manually select the active instance of a HA router" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1370033 | 15:02 |
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| mestery | This one needs a spec, which I've commented on | 15:02 |
| neiljerram | Hi there. | 15:02 |
| mestery | Anyone want to add color to this particualr bug? | 15:03 |
| mestery | neiljerram: Greetings! | 15:03 |
| neiljerram | Just reminder that I think you wanted to look at my RFE/devref. | 15:03 |
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| neiljerram | But perhaps that comes under the general RFE section | 15:03 |
| mestery | neiljerram: Lets do that one now, do you have a link? | 15:03 |
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| neiljerram | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/198439/ | 15:04 |
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| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/198439/ | 15:04 |
| amotoki | mestery: does a spec means to use neutron-spec? | 15:04 |
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| amotoki | I remember we had a question which we use spec repo or devref last week. | 15:04 |
| mestery | amotoki: Yes | 15:05 |
| * carl_baldwin did not finish the follow-up for that question | 15:05 | |
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| amotoki | we still continues to use neutron-spec. clear! | 15:05 |
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| mestery | amotoki: ++ | 15:06 |
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| mestery | neiljerram: So, looks like armax had an interesting comment on this devref | 15:06 |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: ^^^ See armax'scomment as well | 15:06 |
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| neiljerram | Yes. I was just about to get to that. | 15:06 |
| neiljerram | He had good comments on the DHCP change, too. | 15:06 |
| mestery | armax always has good comments :) | 15:06 |
| mestery | I think the thing is, the model being proposed is obviously calico specific | 15:07 |
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| neiljerram | I've tried to draw a line between something that would be a useful more-generic Neutron concept, on one hand, and the specific Calico implementation, on the other hand | 15:07 |
| mestery | neiljerram: Have you considered armax's idea about the type driver living in networking-calico? | 15:08 |
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| mestery | That might be a good place for it to start, but it may tie it even closer to calico. | 15:08 |
| neiljerram | Yes. | 15:08 |
| mestery | I also worry about how this work will tie into and possibly derail carl_baldwin's routed network work | 15:08 |
| mestery | I don't want to slow that down given the operator requirements there | 15:08 |
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| neiljerram | Agreed, and I am trying to help there too. | 15:09 |
| mestery | Excellent! I do appreciate your help in all these areas :) | 15:09 |
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| neiljerram | But also - to be clear - my team has many partners who are very interested in the Calico approach, and would love that to be under Neutron's wing, in some sense. | 15:09 |
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| mestery | Ugh, net split :( | 15:10 |
| carl_baldwin | I keep getting comments from people that mine and neiljerram ’s proposals should be aligned more. But, I still am having trouble seeing how they can be combined. | 15:10 |
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| mestery | neiljerram: If you were to keep the type driver in networking-calico, it's part of neutron, as that project is under the neutron stadium | 15:10 |
| neiljerram | Sure, yes. | 15:10 |
| mestery | It could evolve there, similar to other things like L2GW, SFC, etc. | 15:10 |
| mestery | I'm just thinking out loud here | 15:11 |
| neiljerram | The only specific thing why I need something in core Neutron, is to act as a trigger for the DHCP agent changes that we need. | 15:11 |
| mestery | neiljerram: Is that in the devref? I'm looking again. | 15:11 |
| neiljerram | That's a different change... | 15:12 |
| neiljerram | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/197578/ | 15:12 |
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| mestery | neiljerram: Yes, I've reviewed that a bit. | 15:13 |
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| * carl_baldwin realizes he needs to look over that change. | 15:13 | |
| neiljerram | In other words it boils down to: if I want to make a DHCP agent change that is triggered by my particular network:provider-type, does that network:provider-type need to exist in core Neutron, in order to motivate that? | 15:14 |
| amotoki | neiljerram: i haven't looked thru your reviews, but is there any pointer which describes the mertis of your approach from oeprators perspective? | 15:14 |
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| neiljerram | amotoki: Yes, sure, although not really in the review jobs I have up at the moment. | 15:15 |
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| amotoki | if we go to the way of a new type driver, we need to have a guidance of choosing a type driver. It is the one of the hearts of RFE. | 15:15 |
| neiljerram | amotoki: Those are more written from a dev/community perspective. | 15:15 |
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| neiljerram | amotoki: Not quite sure what you mean there... | 15:16 |
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| mestery | I think we need to discuss this in the broader neutron meeting. carl_baldwin amotoki: What do you think? | 15:17 |
| amotoki | neiljerram: I am trying to understand the motivation, but perhaps I need to read yours more and it will answer it. | 15:17 |
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| mestery | These changes are fundamentally changing the underlying neutron logical model, and I'm still concerned that we'll have this implementation and carl_baldwin's version of routed networks | 15:17 |
| mestery | And they will be different | 15:17 |
| amotoki | mestery: agree. | 15:17 |
| mestery | And we'll have a mess | 15:17 |
| neiljerram | amotoki: In broad terms, we many partners who like the simplicity of our approach. | 15:17 |
| mestery | #info Discuss neiljerram's routed network and DHCP changes in meeting next week | 15:17 |
| neiljerram | amotoki: But I can certainly find more for you than that, I think. | 15:18 |
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| mestery | OK, lets discuss in a future meeting, neiljerram, pelase add this to the agenda here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings under "On Demand" | 15:18 |
| carl_baldwin | Now that I have a pretty good understanding of the calico ML2 piece, I need to wrap my head around this DHCP change. | 15:18 |
| neiljerram | OK, thanks everyone for considering this! | 15:18 |
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| amotoki | neiljerram: perhaps what yoru partners see is one of the answers. let me check this week. | 15:19 |
| mestery | cool, thanks neiljerram carl_baldwin amotoki | 15:19 |
| carl_baldwin | #action carl_baldwin will review DHCP change. | 15:19 |
| mestery | awesome | 15:19 |
| mestery | OK | 15:19 |
| mestery | lets move on | 15:19 |
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| mestery | I know rmoats had one for us to discuss | 15:19 |
| mestery | rmoats: You around? | 15:19 |
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| * mestery waits 60 seconds for rmoats to jump up | 15:20 | |
| rmoats | here | 15:20 |
| mestery | excellent! | 15:20 |
| mestery | Have a link to your RFE? | 15:20 |
| rmoats | I was afraid you were going to ask for that :) | 15:20 |
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| mestery | lol | 15:21 |
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| rmoats | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1475736 | 15:21 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1475736 in neutron "Add instrumentation to Neutron" [Undecided,New] | 15:21 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1475736 in neutron "Add instrumentation to Neutron" [Undecided,New] | 15:21 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1475736 in neutron "Add instrumentation to Neutron" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1475736 | 15:22 |
| rmoats | (found it) | 15:22 |
| mestery | rmoats: Are you going to work on this one should it get approved? | 15:22 |
| rmoats | mestery: yes - I'm planning on putting in the cycles | 15:23 |
| rmoats | and grabbing other resources as needed | 15:23 |
| mestery | OK | 15:23 |
| rmoats | I don't foresee this landing fulling in liberty | 15:23 |
| mestery | :) | 15:23 |
| rmoats | parts, hopefully :) | 15:24 |
| mestery | rmoats: That's good, because I don't either ;) | 15:24 |
| rmoats | but it will stretch into mitaka | 15:24 |
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| rmoats | and maybe beyond | 15:24 |
| rmoats | note: this will be a lightning talk at the operator midcycle next month | 15:24 |
| amotoki | we have several similar proposals: statistics, logging, usage, and so on. | 15:24 |
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| amotoki | one of big questions is how we define API URL structure. | 15:25 |
| mestery | ++ | 15:25 |
| rmoats | amotoki: what do you see the API URL structure doing? | 15:26 |
| mestery | So, this seems pretty straightorward to me, the hardest part will be coalescing with the other projects and the ceilometer integration | 15:26 |
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| rmoats | mestery: that's not in this rfe | 15:26 |
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| rmoats | on purpose - that's a separate headache | 15:26 |
| mestery | rmoats: The ceilometer integration? | 15:26 |
| rmoats | yes... that's *not* part of this rfe | 15:27 |
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| mestery | This RFE is just about collecting and storing the statiscis? | 15:27 |
| rmoats | mestery: yes | 15:27 |
| amotoki | rmoats: if so my comment is a bit different | 15:27 |
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| rmoats | more collecting | 15:27 |
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| rmoats | I'm not really interested in becoming big data | 15:27 |
| mestery | lol | 15:28 |
| amotoki | for logging or usage, others requests REST API to retrieve usage or logging of event (e.g, operations for resources, seggroup logging... ) | 15:28 |
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| amotoki | rmoats: reasonalbe requests to me. | 15:28 |
| rmoats | amotoki: yes, that's why I asked what the API URL would be for | 15:28 |
| mestery | There's no API proposed here, this is literally just collecting and storing stats | 15:29 |
| amotoki | rmoats: thanks for the clarification. | 15:29 |
| mestery | Am I right? | 15:29 |
| amotoki | do we need a counterpart for ceilometer? | 15:29 |
| rmoats | amotoki: yes, if you look at the etherpad, that is part II | 15:29 |
| mestery | amotoki: That's what I was thinking | 15:29 |
| rmoats | mestery: my hope was to avoid storing large amounts of data | 15:30 |
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| mestery | rmoats: OK, so more of a cache until it lands somewhere like ceilometer? | 15:30 |
| rmoats | mestery: ++ | 15:30 |
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| carl_baldwin | I’m not following. We’re going to collect data and then do what with it? | 15:31 |
| rmoats | part I: we make sure we can collect the data | 15:32 |
| rmoats | that's this RFE | 15:32 |
| rmoats | part II: we get it over to Ceilometer | 15:32 |
| rmoats | (that will be a different RFE/project) | 15:32 |
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| carl_baldwin | For part I, is the data going to a big bottomless bit-bucket then? | 15:32 |
| rmoats | part III: we get Celiometer to share the info with operators in their preferred method - outside scope of neutron | 15:32 |
| rmoats | carl_baldwin: no - as mestery said, a cache that refreshes | 15:33 |
| rmoats | I do *NOT* want to be "big data" | 15:33 |
| rmoats | "big data" == "bottomless bit-bucket" | 15:33 |
| amotoki | a kind of new notification APIs from neutron to ceilometer :) like MIB counters (in my understaindng) | 15:33 |
| mestery | OK | 15:33 |
| rmoats | amotoki: that's where I'm going | 15:34 |
| carl_baldwin | rmoats: I just wanted to be sure I understood the scope. | 15:34 |
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| rmoats | carl_baldwin: sure - | 15:34 |
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| rmoats | and I'm very sensitive to storing too much data | 15:34 |
| * rmoats has the scars from other projects trying to do that | 15:34 | |
| carl_baldwin | I now see that phase I is a stepping stone to something but not useful by itself. | 15:34 |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: Always to the point :) | 15:35 |
| carl_baldwin | That’s ok sometimes. | 15:35 |
| rmoats | carl_baldwin: unfortunately yes, but I wanted to divide and conquer | 15:35 |
| mestery | But yes, I thikn that's it | 15:35 |
| mestery | OK, this makes sense to me at least | 15:35 |
| mestery | Lets get the infra in place | 15:35 |
| mestery | And then use it to transfer data out of neutron | 15:35 |
| mestery | and not store it | 15:35 |
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| carl_baldwin | +1 to not storing big data in Neutron. | 15:35 |
| rmoats | mestery: my next step was going to be a BP/spec that catalogued where everything is going to come from | 15:35 |
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| rmoats | to see what we need to add and what is already there waiting to be harvested | 15:36 |
| amotoki | rmoats: one nit question: we have metering-agent which not so many folks seem interested in... is it related? | 15:36 |
| rmoats | carl_baldwin: I'm +max_int to not storing big data in Neutron | 15:36 |
| rmoats | amotoki: I view metering-agent as orthogonal | 15:36 |
| rmoats | that (as I understand it) is aimed at collecting data for billing | 15:37 |
| rmoats | and this is aimed at collecting data for operations folks | 15:37 |
| rmoats | they are similar, but not the same | 15:37 |
| amotoki | rmoats: it is collecting traffic across routers. | 15:37 |
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| amotoki | okay we can go first and if there are overlapped areas we can improve it. | 15:38 |
| rmoats | amotoki: and the right answer may be to reformat it into something that can go into the MIB | 15:38 |
| rmoats | I'm open to reusing what's already there | 15:38 |
| rmoats | well "into the MIB" was a bit strong | 15:38 |
| rmoats | I meant to say "look like what the MIB expects" | 15:38 |
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| amotoki | rmoats: sounds good to me as a first step. | 15:39 |
| mestery | amotoki rmoats: ++ | 15:39 |
| rmoats | amotoki: that's the reason for the BP/spec - to see what can already be harvested | 15:39 |
| * rmoats not interested in reinventing wheels | 15:39 | |
| mestery | Shall we let this one proceed at this point with a solid devref as a starting point? | 15:39 |
| rmoats | mestery: devref or spec? | 15:39 |
| carl_baldwin | +1 | 15:39 |
| * rmoats was thinking spec, but is flexible | 15:39 | |
| -amotoki- is confusing again between devref and spec | 15:40 | |
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| mestery | lol | 15:40 |
| mestery | The spec is very slim | 15:40 |
| mestery | There's no API for this change | 15:40 |
| mestery | So I think a devref seems appropriate to me | 15:40 |
| rmoats | mestery: but there may be lots of options for implementation :) | 15:40 |
| mestery | rmoats: Your job is to simplify those as much as possible and document in the devref :) | 15:41 |
| rmoats | ok, I can do devref then | 15:41 |
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| mestery | cool! | 15:42 |
| mestery | OK | 15:42 |
| mestery | Any other specific RFEs people want to discuss? carl_baldwin amotoki ??? | 15:43 |
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| rmoats | thanks, folks ... | 15:44 |
| mestery | thanks rmoats | 15:44 |
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| mestery | Lets discuss this one: | 15:44 |
| mestery | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1475792 | 15:45 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1475792 in neutron "Change Neutron so that it can auto-allocate networks" [Undecided,Confirmed] - Assigned to Brian Haley (brian-haley) | 15:45 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1475792 in neutron "Change Neutron so that it can auto-allocate networks" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 15:45 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1475792 in neutron "Change Neutron so that it can auto-allocate networks" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1475792 | 15:45 |
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| mestery | I think this is a good start by haleyb | 15:46 |
| mestery | And I think this covers what the nova folks are looking for | 15:46 |
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| mestery | OK | 15:48 |
| mestery | Lets call this meeting now. | 15:48 |
| mestery | Please, keep reviewing the RFE bugs. | 15:48 |
| amotoki | mestery: what is the next step for this? The goal is clear and we need to define API or others. moving to a spec after some discussion? | 15:48 |
| mestery | amotoki: Yes! | 15:48 |
| mestery | Lets move it to a spec since it's an API change | 15:48 |
| mestery | And we can iterate there | 15:48 |
| amotoki | does it mean we can triage it? | 15:49 |
| mestery | amotoki: yes | 15:49 |
| mestery | please mark it triaged | 15:49 |
| mestery | I commented in the bug as well | 15:49 |
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| amotoki | none from me as existing RFE bugs. | 15:52 |
| mestery | OK | 15:52 |
| mestery | Thanks for attending folks! | 15:52 |
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| mestery | Keep reviewing RFE bugs | 15:52 |
| amotoki | perhaps I need to file a rfe for neutron-ironic integration. | 15:52 |
| mestery | We'll see you next week! | 15:52 |
| mestery | amotoki: ++ | 15:52 |
| mestery | #endmeeting | 15:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:52 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 21 15:52:48 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:52 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-07-21-15.00.html | 15:52 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-07-21-15.00.txt | 15:52 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-07-21-15.00.log.html | 15:52 |
| amotoki | thanks! | 15:53 |
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| krtaylor | #startmeeting third-party | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 21 17:00:38 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krtaylor. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 17:00 |
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| asselin | o/ | 17:00 |
| krtaylor | who's here for the third party CI working group? | 17:00 |
| mmedvede | o/ | 17:00 |
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| krtaylor | hi asselin , mmedvede | 17:01 |
| krtaylor | asselin, thanks again for running the last meeting | 17:01 |
| patrickeast | hi | 17:02 |
| * krtaylor feels relaxed after vacation time off | 17:02 | |
| krtaylor | hi patrickeast | 17:02 |
| asselin | you're welcome | 17:02 |
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| krtaylor | I realized that I put the wrong date on the agenda, glad you all are here anyway | 17:03 |
| krtaylor | here's the agenda | 17:03 |
| krtaylor | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ThirdParty#7.2F21.2F15_1700_UTC | 17:03 |
| krtaylor | #topic Announcements | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:03 | |
| krtaylor | I don't have any, none listed | 17:04 |
| krtaylor | anyone have anything to quickly announce? | 17:04 |
| krtaylor | deadlines? news? | 17:04 |
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| krtaylor | #topic Common CI Vsprint | 17:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Common CI Vsprint (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:05 | |
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| krtaylor | looks like it went well, and now 4 are done! | 17:05 |
| asselin | hi, yes, didn't finish, but made a lot of progess | 17:05 |
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| asselin | nodepool is the most challenging one because it involves changes to nodepool itself | 17:06 |
| krtaylor | asselin, what are you thinking for the next steps? | 17:06 |
| krtaylor | want to have a second vsprint? | 17:06 |
| asselin | krtaylor, not thinking about that. I think we can just do normal reviews and get it done that wat | 17:07 |
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| krtaylor | asselin, fair enough | 17:07 |
| asselin | part of the issue is that we are too dispersed geographically for nodepool, so it's difficult to iterate | 17:07 |
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| mmedvede | I had a general question on the sprint. I noticed some refactoring/move patches where not just moving things, but combining more changes in a single patch | 17:08 |
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| mmedvede | I think it did slow things done, e.g. my patch (low priority) had a comment to have things changed, in comparison on how they where in system-config | 17:09 |
| mmedvede | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/199790/ | 17:09 |
| asselin | mmedvede, yes, I try to limit & enforce scope, but definietly need to do better with that | 17:09 |
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| krtaylor | it would be good to limit the initial drop to be just the refactoring to make it work | 17:09 |
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| mmedvede | asselin: ok, good to know. I wanted to do move without regression in one patch, and any improvements in a different ones | 17:09 |
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| mmedvede | krtaylor: +1 | 17:10 |
| asselin | mmedvede, there are exceptions of course, but that is what we should aim for | 17:10 |
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| asselin | perhaps submitting follow-up patches and comment with 'done in patch#" can help | 17:11 |
| mmedvede | I feel there is sometimes a push to do more than necessary in a single patch, not sure why | 17:11 |
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| krtaylor | as long as we agree, then comments to split out work will be supported | 17:12 |
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| krtaylor | why would someone refuse a higher patch count? :) | 17:13 |
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| asselin | I think we need to stand stronger on that. | 17:13 |
| asselin | I will add comments to that end: separate refactor from improvement patch. | 17:14 |
| krtaylor | #agreed Take a stronger review position on common ci patches that do more than minimal refactoring | 17:15 |
| mmedvede | asselin: thank you | 17:15 |
| asselin | mmedvede, thanks for bringing it up | 17:15 |
| krtaylor | hm, not sure agreed worked, whatever | 17:15 |
| krtaylor | we'll see in logs | 17:15 |
| krtaylor | asselin re: iterate on nodepool, not sure I understood that | 17:16 |
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| asselin | just mean working throught the patch review cycle https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/common-ci-sprint | 17:16 |
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| asselin | there are quite a few interelated patches | 17:16 |
| asselin | those are difinitely more than a refactor | 17:17 |
| asselin | but necessary to not have the nodepool.yaml file being a template | 17:17 |
| asselin | so it's more of an improvement followed by a refactor | 17:18 |
| krtaylor | so just quicker reviews to land everything in one group | 17:18 |
| krtaylor | I understand what you are saying | 17:18 |
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| krtaylor | actually, that sounds like a good exercise for a vsprint, with lots of ci and infra involvement | 17:19 |
| krtaylor | or at least a focus hours during/after an infra meeting | 17:19 |
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| asselin | honestly, we got quite a bit done prior the virtual sprint, so I think we should do that by keeping reviews & testing active | 17:21 |
| krtaylor | asselin, your call, let us know how we can help | 17:21 |
| mmedvede | asselin: any idea why this one did not merge? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/199737/ | 17:22 |
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| * asselin looks | 17:22 | |
| mmedvede | might need a re-nudge, maybe gerrit had problems at the time | 17:23 |
| asselin | yes, seems like it | 17:23 |
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| asselin | oh I see....it's depends-on is still in review | 17:25 |
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| mmedvede | asselin: good catch | 17:25 |
| krtaylor | anything else for common ci? | 17:26 |
| asselin | i've nothing else | 17:26 |
| mmedvede | krtaylor: proceed | 17:27 |
| krtaylor | #topic Spec to have infra host monitoring dashboard | 17:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Spec to have infra host monitoring dashboard (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:27 | |
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| krtaylor | so this was moving well, no major problems | 17:27 |
| krtaylor | I learned about another dashboard | 17:28 |
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| mmedvede | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/194437/ | 17:28 |
| krtaylor | jogo wrote lastcomment | 17:28 |
| krtaylor | thanks mmedvede | 17:28 |
| krtaylor | #link http://jogo.github.io/lastcomment/ | 17:28 |
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| wznoinsk | krtaylor: sorry to inject it here, did you look into having nagios + nagstamon (as a desktop app instead of dashboard) ? | 17:29 |
| krtaylor | wznoinsk, no, although I'm not sure its a bad idea | 17:30 |
| krtaylor | but it would need to be a service that infra would host | 17:30 |
| krtaylor | that way, it would be available, else it would be dependent on someone privately hosting it | 17:31 |
| mmedvede | krtaylor: jhesketh suggested to rename the spec files to avoid confusion, I do not think it has been addressed | 17:31 |
| wznoinsk | nagstamon is just an app on your workstation you have it in your systray that poll nagios server (over http) for any alerts nagios server is seeing | 17:31 |
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| krtaylor | mmedvede, I changed the topic, I didn't agree :) Also, we are moving the original spec...eventually | 17:32 |
| wznoinsk | krtaylor: anyways, we can take it offline, I've got some experience with that and really like that (over dashboards or emails) | 17:32 |
| krtaylor | sweston, are you around? | 17:32 |
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| sweston | krtaylor: yes, sir | 17:33 |
| krtaylor | wznoinsk, it would mean that someone would have to install that to see the history of a system that just posted a failed comment | 17:33 |
| sweston | reading backlog | 17:33 |
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| krtaylor | wznoinsk, I'd think that a page would be easier for a dev to hit to see if a system was off in the weeds | 17:34 |
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| wznoinsk | krtaylor: nagstamon is just a desktop version of what you normally see on nagios dashboard(s) | 17:34 |
| wznoinsk | you can use nagios webpages for 'non-infra' (devs) | 17:34 |
| krtaylor | sweston, thanks for joining us! I had pinged you yesterday, was wondering if you had a chance to see if a patch could change projects in gerrit | 17:34 |
| * asselin will be back in a few | 17:35 | |
| jogo | krtaylor: I tried to keep lastcomment as simple as possible, it is a tiny python requests script that runs from a cron job right now | 17:35 |
| sweston | krtaylor: no, unfortunately I have not had any spare time at all. I might be able to get to it later in the week | 17:35 |
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| krtaylor | wznoinsk, I am certainly open to suggestions, I know that others are using nagios (we are too) | 17:35 |
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| sweston | krtaylor: actually, I am getting ready to upgrade my systems again, so today or tomorrow would be a good time to test this | 17:36 |
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| krtaylor | sweston, thanks, let me know if you can't, but it woul dbe good to keep all the history and comments with the original spec | 17:36 |
| wznoinsk | krtaylor: let's talk some other time as it's go-home time for me already, I'll catch you on #openstack-infra if you don't mind | 17:36 |
| mmedvede | wznoinsk: nagios is generally good at monitoring multiple hosts, I am confused how it can be used to show status of third-party CIs | 17:36 |
| krtaylor | sweston, else, we can capture the test and include it with a txt file when it is moved to third-party-ci-tools | 17:37 |
| krtaylor | jogo, thanks, I do really like the layout, clean and simple | 17:37 |
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| sweston | krtaylor: yes, we can consider that as a last pass option | 17:37 |
| wznoinsk | mmedvede: nagios is powerfull you can use any script program (bash, python, perl, java or whatever you pick) to check 'a thing' for you and feed status back to nagios | 17:37 |
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| krtaylor | wznoinsk, thanks for coming, and let me know what you are thinking, if it provides more with its framework, it may be useful for other tasks in infra as well | 17:38 |
| wznoinsk | mmedvede: krtaylor: I'm a huge fan of nagios so I'll sound like everything is doable in nagios, because it is in my opinion :-) | 17:38 |
| mmedvede | wznoinsk: I see, so you basically suggest not to write a web frontend, but reuse nagios | 17:39 |
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| wznoinsk | krtaylor: sure, I'll catch you in the week | 17:39 |
| krtaylor | wznoinsk, it is a good tool, and widely used | 17:39 |
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| krtaylor | wznoinsk, thanks | 17:39 |
| wznoinsk | mmedvede: web frontend is probably not the strongest part of nagios especially for wider (than just infra) public so it may still be needed | 17:39 |
| wznoinsk | but the infra part should be well covered by nagios out of the box | 17:39 |
| * krtaylor is trying to keep up with the different threads | 17:40 | |
| mmedvede | wznoinsk: ok, now I am more confused. Would definitely want to learn more about what you suggest :) | 17:40 |
| mmedvede | wznoinsk: I think we might be talking about monitoring different things | 17:40 |
| krtaylor | sweston, I'll ping you tomorrow and see where you are at, I think it would help speed the infra hosting spec if it were moved | 17:40 |
| jogo | krtaylor: and the code is fairly compact too | 17:41 |
| * asselin returns | 17:41 | |
| sweston | krtaylor agreed | 17:41 |
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| krtaylor | jogo, it would be ideal if we could combine efforts with patrickeast and have a super simple dashboard | 17:42 |
| krtaylor | jogo, patrickeast - have either of you compared with the other dashboard? | 17:42 |
| wznoinsk | mmedvede: I monitor my 3rdparty CI with a script under nagios, not sure what exactly you want to monitor, could you ping me the spec pls? | 17:43 |
| patrickeast | yea we’ve chatted a bit about them | 17:43 |
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| mmedvede | wznoinsk: this is the spec in discussion: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/194437/ | 17:44 |
| * krtaylor has not had the time to do a functional comparison of dashboards | 17:44 | |
| patrickeast | i think one issue is that they are kind of targeting different audiences, so they prioritize different features/designs | 17:44 |
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| patrickeast | mine is more focused on someone who wants to troubleshoot a ci system and know what/where things broke | 17:44 |
| jogo | patrickeast: yeah, it would be possible to make two views. I think the big difference is how we collect data | 17:45 |
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| mmedvede | wznoinsk: this is patrickeast 's dashboard #link http://ec2-54-67-102-119.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com:5000/?project=openstack%2Fnova&user=&timeframe=24&start=&end= | 17:45 |
| jogo | I just use the gerrit REST API periodically, patrickeast wanted real time data so gerrit stream ... which makes things a lot more complex | 17:45 |
| jogo | I am happy to see any solution that is agreed upon | 17:45 |
| jogo | I would be more then happy to stop running lastcomment | 17:45 |
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| patrickeast | haha, same boat here, i’m ok either way too | 17:46 |
| patrickeast | i just want *something* | 17:46 |
| wznoinsk | mmedvede: yes, I like patrickeast's work, even if that dashboard saw day light for the first time (and it was more basic) | 17:46 |
| krtaylor | jogo, patrickeast thanks for your flexibility | 17:46 |
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| krtaylor | jogo, as patrickeast said, yours is useful too, I don't see why you'd have to stop running it, unless you wanted to | 17:47 |
| wznoinsk | I do understand there will be different criteria you'd be scoring the CIs on (i.e.: how many times per 10 a CI failed, how many times per 10 a 3rdparty CI failed when upstream jenkins DID NOT etc.) | 17:47 |
| patrickeast | krtaylor: +1 | 17:47 |
| krtaylor | but having everyone jump in on maintaining one dashboard and improving it would be MUCH better | 17:48 |
| patrickeast | jogo: i think yours is actually more useful for someone who just wants to know what systems are ok for a project at a glance | 17:48 |
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| patrickeast | its just harder to figure out *why* they are broken | 17:48 |
| patrickeast | but that doesn’t matter to 99% of the openstack devs | 17:48 |
| sweston | krtaylor: +1 . I would prefer this as well, and would rather have folks contributing to radar | 17:48 |
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| wznoinsk | mmedvede: with more criteria and logic you want a more advanced dashboard, or easy to read dashboards 'per problem' | 17:48 |
| asselin | sweston has a good point | 17:49 |
| krtaylor | I think the most important thing is that we all agree, very quickly, on one dashboard to get the hosting spec done | 17:49 |
| jogo | patrickeast: right, that is exactly what I head in mind when I put it together | 17:49 |
| asselin | these others are supposed to be 'temporary' | 17:49 |
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| krtaylor | then we can start working on the full featured solution | 17:50 |
| mmedvede | wznoinsk: I want something I can use to detect anomalies in our CI compared to others. patrickeast 's scoreboard is currently sufficient for our usecase | 17:50 |
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| jogo | patrickeast: it wouldn't be too hard to add an option to my dashboard to list failed cases when you click something | 17:50 |
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| mmedvede | wznoinsk: I do not necessarily want 'automagic' detection, I just want data presented in a consumable way | 17:50 |
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| krtaylor | ok so do we have agreement to stay with scoreboard for now? else we prob have to wait 2 weeks to see any movement | 17:51 |
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| krtaylor | jogo, would you be willing to move yours to third-party-ci-tools so others could contribute through the gerrit process? | 17:52 |
| jogo | krtaylor: no problem | 17:52 |
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| mmedvede | If we would ask infra to deploy scoreboard or lastcomment, where would puppet modules go | 17:53 |
| mmedvede | ? | 17:53 |
| krtaylor | mmedvede, its in the spec (roughly) | 17:53 |
| mmedvede | krtaylor: yes, sorry | 17:53 |
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| jogo | krtaylor: I don't think it makes sense to have infra host a temporary solution | 17:53 |
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| krtaylor | jogo, actually, that was their suggestion | 17:54 |
| jogo | in the time we are sorting out a 'temporary' thing a final thing could be done | 17:54 |
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| krtaylor | they wanted something now, and it would get all the structure in place | 17:54 |
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| krtaylor | thats really the catch here, we need a basic solution NOW | 17:55 |
| mmedvede | krtaylor: +1 for NOW | 17:55 |
| krtaylor | ok, well, we are running out of time for the meeting, move to email thread? or a quick decision? | 17:56 |
| wznoinsk | mmedvede: I'm affraid that to check dashboard for all projects, all CIs in each project, scanning it once/a few times a day is taking a lot of human cycles, I'd prefer to have a check and threshold defined that lets me know | 17:56 |
| krtaylor | wznoinsk, it would really only be visited when a dev got a neg comment | 17:57 |
| krtaylor | and it would be filtered by project | 17:57 |
| krtaylor | just meant to see if a system is off in the weeds or not | 17:57 |
| krtaylor | and for that reason, I'd choose patrickeast 's if I had to pick one today | 17:58 |
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| wznoinsk | krtaylor: yes, it's good for ad hoc checks | 17:58 |
| krtaylor | its easy to compare a systems results to everyone else that tested the same patch | 17:58 |
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| krtaylor | so do we agree? | 17:58 |
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| mmedvede | +1 | 17:59 |
| krtaylor | out of time | 17:59 |
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| krtaylor | I'll move to email thread | 18:00 |
| krtaylor | thanks everyone, really good meeting | 18:00 |
| krtaylor | #endmeeting | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 21 18:00:33 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-07-21-17.00.html | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-07-21-17.00.txt | 18:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-07-21-17.00.log.html | 18:00 |
| breton | o/ | 18:00 |
| stevemar | courtsey ping for ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, ericksonsantos, geoffarnold, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rharwood, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, stevemar, topol, wanghong | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | stevemar: yo | 18:00 |
| morganfainberg | hey....... | 18:00 |
| gyee | \o | 18:00 |
| browne | hi | 18:00 |
| htruta_ | o/ | 18:00 |
| samueldmq | olá | 18:00 |
| amakarov | o/ | 18:00 |
| rodrigods | o/ | 18:00 |
| samueldmq | o/ | 18:00 |
| bknudson | hi | 18:00 |
| geoffarnold | \o | 18:00 |
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| morganfainberg | stevemar: you got this one? | 18:00 |
| ayoung | \me here | 18:01 |
| morganfainberg | or want me to? | 18:01 |
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| raildo | o/ | 18:01 |
| ericksonsantos | \o | 18:01 |
| henrynash | and a fine eveing to you all | 18:01 |
| * morganfainberg is around and doesn't care either way | 18:01 | |
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| tsymancz1k | o/ | 18:01 |
| stevemar | morganfainberg: i have another meeting at the same time, so you can do it this time :) | 18:01 |
| morganfainberg | sure thing | 18:01 |
| morganfainberg | #startmeeting Keystone | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 21 18:01:35 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is morganfainberg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| morganfainberg | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:01 |
| * ayoung needs to leave at the 1/2 hour mark | 18:01 | |
| morganfainberg | Hi everyone! | 18:01 |
| lhcheng | o/ | 18:01 |
| dstanek | o/ | 18:01 |
| morganfainberg | so... lets jump right in | 18:02 |
| ericksonsantos | Hi :) | 18:02 |
| morganfainberg | Welcome back from midcycle | 18:02 |
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| morganfainberg | time to do non-midcycle things now | 18:02 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Dynamic Policies | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Dynamic Policies (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, samueldmq: o/ | 18:02 |
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| ayoung | W00t | 18:02 |
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| samueldmq | hello guys o/ | 18:02 |
| ayoung | ok, gave a presentation last week | 18:02 |
| ayoung | link in am oment | 18:02 |
| ayoung | moment | 18:02 |
| gyee | still digesting them lobstars | 18:02 |
| henrynash | (lobsters, plural ????) | 18:03 |
| ayoung | #LINK to git repo https://github.com/admiyo/keystone-rbac-presentation | 18:03 |
| gyee | henrynash, +2! | 18:03 |
| ayoung | #LINK https://github.com/admiyo/keystone-rbac-presentation/raw/master/risk-assessment.pdf | 18:03 |
| geoffarnold | +1 (a +2 would just go to his head) | 18:04 |
| ayoung | I think we are making progress, but still concerned that most people don't get what we are trying to do here...please ask away if you have any questions | 18:04 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: yes, and I'd like to ask for an offical decision on the SFE | 18:04 |
| ayoung | the goal is to minimize the amount we depend on the remote services to change | 18:04 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, that is for you to decide, or the TC? | 18:05 |
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| amakarov | ayoung, we have some Horizon folks here interested to try to make an editor for policies | 18:05 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: see what cores (who didn't responded to the email) think and see what morganfainberg thinks (since it's a ptl decision, as ttx said :)) | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: hmm? | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: the SPFE? | 18:05 |
| ayoung | put it to a vote? | 18:05 |
| geoffarnold | I think we need to develop a crisp strategy that we can share x-project (multi-cycle, inevitably) | 18:05 |
| ayoung | yep | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | it's a core decision | 18:05 |
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| morganfainberg | i'll support the general view of the keystone-core team | 18:05 |
| samueldmq | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:05 |
| henrynash | ayoung: so my view is that IF we limit our selves to making it easier for projects to source their polciy files form keystone (without any fundamental change to policy format, definitions etc.) then I support | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | it's my call,but i'll leave it to the team to decide | 18:05 |
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| ayoung | geoffarnold, that is the goal; need to make it understandable cross project | 18:06 |
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| morganfainberg | i would rather not step on the toes of those who need to review/maintain/support/look at bugs in it [if that makes sense] | 18:06 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: I think that's pretty the scope to L, at least as I see it | 18:06 |
| ayoung | henrynash, that is exactly the intention of the SFPE | 18:06 |
| gyee | ayoung, I am lost, you saying changing the policy format is a precursor to dynamic policy? | 18:06 |
| ayoung | gyee, no | 18:07 |
| ayoung | no change to the policy format is proposed | 18:07 |
| gyee | they are two different deal | 18:07 |
| geoffarnold | I'll take the strategy + motivating user stories to the ProductWG when we're ready | 18:07 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, can you find the link to the SFPE email? | 18:07 |
| ayoung | geoffarnold, those are all in the presentation | 18:07 |
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| samueldmq | ayoung: henrynash the bp https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/dynamic-policies-delivery | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: if you want a vote, happy to start one | 18:08 |
| gyee | yeah those changes are fairly contained | 18:08 |
| samueldmq | and the email ... | 18:08 |
| samueldmq | #link https://www.mail-archive.com/openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org/msg57416.html | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | otherwise general consensus here works too | 18:08 |
| geoffarnold | I know. Waiting on final consensus | 18:08 |
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| gyee | no objection here | 18:08 |
| ayoung | as far as delivery, what we are propsing can be summarized like this | 18:08 |
| ayoung | we make use of the endpoint policy extension we have now to associate a policy with an endpoint | 18:09 |
| ayoung | endpoints will fetch by endpoint id. | 18:09 |
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| ayoung | The most explicit will be to set the id in the authtoken secition of the config file | 18:09 |
| henrynash | samueldmq: well, at lesat one of this listed is abandoned! | 18:09 |
| ayoung | later, we will implement aless invasive approch; | 18:09 |
| ayoung | calculate the endpoint_id from the URL | 18:09 |
| bknudson | "endpoints will fetch by endpoint id." -- this has to be implemented in all the other projects? | 18:09 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: yes, as a consequence of what was decided on the midcycle.. we'll be fetching by endpoint_id, not by policy id | 18:10 |
| henrynash | ayoung, samueldmq: before a vote, we need a definitive list of what BPs are included | 18:10 |
| bknudson | do you feel like you've incorporated sdague's concerns? | 18:10 |
| ayoung | bknudson, "has to" no. "may be" yes | 18:10 |
| henrynash | ayoung, samueldmq: please excluded those you have abandoned | 18:10 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: just this one for the dynamic delivery: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/dynamic-policies-delivery | 18:10 |
| samueldmq | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/dynamic-policies-delivery | 18:10 |
| samueldmq | that's all for L | 18:10 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: how do I exclude that ? | 18:11 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, edit the white board and remove the abandonded specs, please | 18:11 |
| morganfainberg | or say "(abandoned)" next to them | 18:11 |
| morganfainberg | same net effect | 18:11 |
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| samueldmq | ayoung: henrynash done! | 18:12 |
| samueldmq | morganfainberg: sorry was removing :) it can be viewed as abandoned when filtering by gerrit topic | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | its' fine either way | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | both work, it indicates what is active | 18:13 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: bknudson has a question about sdague's concerns above .. ^ | 18:14 |
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| samueldmq | any other core has any concern/question on this subject? | 18:14 |
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| stevemar | i'm still super weary about this | 18:14 |
| samueldmq | so we can clarify before a vote | 18:14 |
| ayoung | no clue on whether sdague would approve or reject at this point... | 18:14 |
| geoffarnold | stevemar weary or wary? | 18:14 |
| stevemar | wary :P | 18:14 |
| ayoung | geoffarnold, he's wary, I'mweary | 18:15 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: hehe I need to translate that one :p | 18:15 |
| geoffarnold | ayoung, srevemar I knew that ;-) | 18:15 |
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| ayoung | stevemar, please state your concerns | 18:15 |
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| gyee | stevemar, do let us know your feelings, this is also a dynamic policy therapy session | 18:15 |
| samueldmq | I think we need more love on this subject, what is target to L is very small, the delivery | 18:15 |
| samueldmq | let's clear the points that need to, get reviews, and get it done :) | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | gyee: lets save therapy for another time | 18:16 |
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| bknudson | I know I've had lots of time to look at the spec but I haven't yet... I wouldn't mind taking a look at it this week and then I'll vote on the spec. | 18:16 |
| stevemar | a whole system for storage/retrieval of policies to solve the issue of inconsistent 'is_admin' roles seems like overkill | 18:16 |
| bknudson | I think people are wary because we implement lots of things that other projects wind up not using | 18:16 |
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| bknudson | so are other projects actually going to use this? | 18:16 |
| geoffarnold | stevemar overkill for this, or overkill as an eventual goal? | 18:16 |
| samueldmq | bknudson: other projects don't even need to know about it, they get the policy file | 18:17 |
| samueldmq | bknudson: that can be modified before with the dynamic one | 18:17 |
| stevemar | geoffarnold: i'd prefer to just better define what is_admin is, and make sure projects adhere to that | 18:17 |
| * marekd sneaks in late | 18:17 | |
| samueldmq | bknudson: so no change on other projects for the delivery, if that's what you want to know | 18:17 |
| ayoung | policy had a store and fetch mechanism for al ong time, it just was useless | 18:17 |
| bknudson | everyone's using oslo.policy and they use that? | 18:17 |
| samueldmq | bknudson: yes | 18:17 |
| * morganfainberg directs marekd to the open seat in the front of the room - no sneaky | 18:17 | |
| ayoung | bknudson, not all projects have migrated from the incubated yet | 18:18 |
| samueldmq | bknudson: that will be optional I guess.. not a must use that | 18:18 |
| stevemar | just nova and a few of the new projects | 18:18 |
| gyee | this is not really about admin | 18:18 |
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| gyee | admin is deployment-specific | 18:18 |
| geoffarnold | stevemar that's a good short term goal. as we discussed last week, is_admin needs to disappear long term, except for break-glass | 18:18 |
| gyee | it just some role with some capabilities | 18:18 |
| samueldmq | bknudson: so that goes in the middleware/oslo config sections | 18:18 |
| ayoung | stoarge is just the first step. The goal is to be able to link the polices and the role assignments into a coherent mechanism | 18:18 |
| ayoung | so...yeah, each step is going to seem small, cuz, you know, baby steps | 18:18 |
| gyee | this is really about flexibility in authorization management | 18:18 |
| ayoung | and things that are understandable, and valuable in and of themselves | 18:18 |
| bknudson | are you planning to put together a gate job that uses it? | 18:18 |
| henrynash | here’s the fundamental question (imho): are the eventual solutions to policy one that require us to recommend that cloud providers top using the tradiational methods of policy distribution (e.g. chef etc.) and instead use keystone as a central repository of policy | 18:19 |
| bknudson | changing devstack to use it? | 18:19 |
| bknudson | functional tests? | 18:19 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash: good question | 18:19 |
| bknudson | documentation? | 18:19 |
| henrynash | (provuders stop…) | 18:19 |
| samueldmq | bknudson: yeah I can do it | 18:19 |
| ayoung | bknudson, yes, yes, and yes. | 18:19 |
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| gyee | henrynash, this is same mechanism as domain backend in sql | 18:20 |
| stevemar | could it live as it's own project until all the baby steps are done? or as a feature branch? | 18:20 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: see henrynash's question .. if we do that, we are advising them to do so, i.e use keystone for the distribution instead of CMS | 18:20 |
| ayoung | stevemar, I'd probably just give up in frustration if we tried | 18:20 |
| henrynash | if we think yes to my question, then what is being roposed seems a godo second step (we already mad teh first by having the APIs to allow such a centralized repository) | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | ok 4 more mins on this topic | 18:21 |
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| morganfainberg | then we either vote or use the spec as the vote | 18:21 |
| ayoung | stevemar, its like; something major is broken here. Keystone itslef is a security nightmare, and we are afraid of fixing it. I'm fine with someone suggesting an alternative approach tio fixing it, but not with postponing the fixes | 18:21 |
| geoffarnold | +1 | 18:21 |
| ayoung | things take for-ever in Keystone, and if we say "we are afraid of this" we will never fix it | 18:22 |
| ayoung | so...speak up. how do we fix keystone? | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: this, however, is *not* a keystone is a security nightmare. this is a policy is a security nightmare | 18:22 |
| dstanek | I like the idea of a separate branch/repo for this to prove it out | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | we can fix keystone policy - that really is a lot less difficult | 18:22 |
| gyee | a quick hack would be to patchup the individual policy.json file :) | 18:22 |
| gyee | just saying | 18:22 |
| gyee | if we only care about the admin problem | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | fixing policy everywhere is hard | 18:22 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, can we? PLease explain how. | 18:23 |
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| ayoung | gyee, if I thought we could address this by fixing the individual policy files, I'd go for it | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: simple - we change the loading params, make a new default, change devstack, and tell people the old single admin/member policy is dead with a simple migration to a "real" policy. that isn't hard to sell | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: fixing is_admin *everywhere* is hard | 18:23 |
| stevemar | ayoung: if it were a nightmare we'd have operators desperately asking us for it. i'm hearing a "yeah, it's cool" | 18:23 |
| geoffarnold | fixing policy everywhere is hard, but it's less hard if we provide an easy-to-adopt framework which addresses the issues | 18:24 |
| gyee | ayoung, like defining a nova_admin role? | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | just trying to avoid the "keystone is broken" statements, keystone is mildly broken - but it's hard to fix everything everywhere - we know this. | 18:24 |
| ayoung | gyee, namespaced roles have been suggested before...are you saying we should prioritize that? | 18:24 |
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| gyee | ayoung, we could | 18:25 |
| gyee | but that's not "dynamic" | 18:25 |
| gyee | but would get us pass the global admin problem | 18:25 |
| henrynash | ayoung: gyee is suggesting somthig simpler I think, jsut work with the prpjects so the don’t call their “own” admin role “admin” | 18:25 |
| lbragstad | henrynash: ++ | 18:25 |
| ayoung | henrynash, who gets to assigne that role? | 18:25 |
| ayoung | what scope is it enforced on? | 18:25 |
| ayoung | and how is that enforcement done? | 18:26 |
| gyee | enforcement is still the same | 18:26 |
| ayoung | gyee, and that is policy, right? | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | ok since ayoung needs to go in 4... | 18:26 |
| henrynash | ayoung: and second, we change oslo.policy so we can put comments in policy.json, create some kick-ass samples (e.g. give one to Nova and Glance to show them how) | 18:26 |
| stevemar | also, oslo.policy is already dynamic, edit a file and the next request will use it | 18:26 |
| gyee | is_admin: role:admin or role:nova_admin | 18:26 |
| ayoung | gyee, it needs to be scoped | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | are we voting on the spfe? or are we aiming for a different tack (get namespaced roles?)? | 18:27 |
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| morganfainberg | oor using the spec as a vote? | 18:27 |
| gyee | just assign the nova_admin role to user for a given project | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | or something totally different? | 18:27 |
| ayoung | We can distribute the mechanism by some other form. The problem is then it becomes "config" | 18:28 |
| ayoung | and not "data" | 18:28 |
| geoffarnold | the state of this discussion (and last week) suggests that whatever we're talking about it isn't ready for a vote yet | 18:28 |
| samueldmq | morganfainberg: I think we should vote.. if we don't get enough yeses, that may mean we should reprioritize, or try anythingelse ? | 18:28 |
| ayoung | and the rules change for the operators. | 18:28 |
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| geoffarnold | so just spfe | 18:28 |
| gyee | to maintain backward compatibility, we roll a small middleware to translate nova_admin to admin at nova api pipeline | 18:28 |
| ayoung | gyee, gah! | 18:28 |
| ayoung | no | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: your call since it's your initiative - vote, defer, something else? | 18:28 |
| henrynash | gyee: no (even from me!) | 18:28 |
| ayoung | vote | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | ok | 18:29 |
| gyee | like I said, that's a simple hack to solve the global adminness issue | 18:29 |
| ayoung | just on the distro mechanism | 18:29 |
| gyee | but not for dynamic policy | 18:29 |
| ayoung | it is opt in...won;'t be enabled until the user wants it | 18:29 |
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| ayoung | specifically | 18:29 |
| ayoung | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/134655/ | 18:29 |
| ayoung | and | 18:29 |
| henrynash | ayoung: is this classed as experimental? | 18:29 |
| ayoung | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/197980/ | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | #startvote Dynamic Policy SPFE Acceptance? accept, deny, defer | 18:29 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Dynamic Policy SPFE Acceptance? Valid vote options are accept, deny, defer. | 18:29 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 18:29 |
| bknudson | #vote defer | 18:29 |
| gyee | #vote accept | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | defer would be either next meeting or use spec scoring as the vote | 18:30 |
| ayoung | henrynash, so one is cahce headers...I see no need to defer or make experimental | 18:30 |
| ayoung | the other is for middleware | 18:30 |
| breton | #vote defer | 18:30 |
| ayoung | #vote accept | 18:30 |
| amakarov | #vote defer | 18:30 |
| samueldmq | #vote accept | 18:30 |
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| ayoung | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/134655/ is the thing we are really voting on....the other is just better HTTP coding | 18:30 |
| * morganfainberg pokes stevemar | 18:31 | |
| henrynash | #vote accept | 18:31 |
| samueldmq | morganfainberg: if we defer, people should put more love on that, we'll be defering because they don't know enough about it | 18:31 |
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| geoffarnold | (this is just cores, right?) | 18:31 |
| stevemar | morganfainberg: i'm thinking | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | geoffarnold: feel free to vote | 18:31 |
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| stevemar | #vote defer | 18:31 |
| gyee | geoffarnold, this is democracy | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | geoffarnold: i'll weight to cores if it's a tie | 18:31 |
| geoffarnold | #vote accept | 18:31 |
| marekd | #vote accept | 18:31 |
| lbragstad | #vote defer | 18:31 |
| ayoung | so, before we close the vote, let's be clear on what we are voting on | 18:31 |
| ayoung | a defer vote means we will make no progress on dynamic policy this release | 18:32 |
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| gyee | #vote for progress | 18:32 |
| openstack | gyee: for progress is not a valid option. Valid options are accept, deny, defer. | 18:32 |
| breton | > defer would be either next meeting or use spec scoring as the vote | 18:32 |
| dstanek | #vote defer | 18:32 |
| ayoung | this was the absolute smallest piece of it we could make happen. | 18:32 |
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| morganfainberg | #votes | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | #votestatus | 18:33 |
| * morganfainberg cant remember | 18:33 | |
| samueldmq | #showvote | 18:33 |
| openstack | defer (6): lbragstad, bknudson, dstanek, amakarov, breton, stevemar | 18:33 |
| openstack | accept (6): gyee, ayoung, marekd, geoffarnold, samueldmq, henrynash | 18:33 |
| gyee | endvote first | 18:33 |
| samueldmq | morganfainberg: ^ showvote ;) | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | crap... | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | really i'm going to have to be the tie breaker? | 18:34 |
| bknudson | it's up to morganfainberg | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | *really*?! | 18:34 |
| gyee | hah | 18:34 |
| breton | ok, love me now | 18:34 |
| breton | #vote accept | 18:34 |
| bknudson | nobody voted no, so I'm fine with it either way | 18:34 |
| gyee | breton, heh | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | where is lbragstad, dolphm, and jamielennox? | 18:34 |
| bknudson | the only way it could go is towards accept at this point | 18:34 |
| lbragstad | I already voted | 18:34 |
| marekd | morganfainberg: lbragstad voted | 18:34 |
| lbragstad | \o/ | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | oh | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | haha | 18:35 |
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| ayoung | jamielennox is probably asleep. He's been battling SSL issues until the wee hours of the morning | 18:35 |
| gyee | lbragstad, hi | 18:35 |
| ayoung | I need to go | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | and even split of cores also | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | ugh | 18:35 |
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| dolphm | morganfainberg: o/ | 18:35 |
| bknudson | switch to TLS | 18:35 |
| geoffarnold | #showvote | 18:35 |
| openstack | defer (5): lbragstad, bknudson, dstanek, amakarov, stevemar | 18:35 |
| openstack | accept (7): gyee, ayoung, marekd, geoffarnold, samueldmq, henrynash, breton | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm: ^^ vote - and views? | 18:35 |
| dolphm | oh crap meeting lol | 18:35 |
| * morganfainberg is trying to *not* be the tie breakers here | 18:35 | |
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| dolphm | #vote defer | 18:36 |
| ayoung | I'll check the results later | 18:36 |
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| morganfainberg | ahha | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | #vote defer | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | #endvote | 18:36 |
| openstack | Voted on "Dynamic Policy SPFE Acceptance?" Results are | 18:36 |
| openstack | defer (7): lbragstad, morganfainberg, bknudson, dstanek, dolphm, amakarov, stevemar | 18:36 |
| openstack | accept (7): gyee, ayoung, marekd, geoffarnold, samueldmq, henrynash, breton | 18:36 |
| bknudson | this is impossible | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | even split - but more cores on defer | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | so we will go with defer. | 18:37 |
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| samueldmq | morganfainberg: next meeting ? so we can vote again even if people don't look at the specs | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | please vote on the spec - score it | 18:37 |
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| morganfainberg | #action Keystone Cores - review the SPFE and Dynamic policy spec(s) specifically for liberty | 18:37 |
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| morganfainberg | i expect to have scores on the specs by next meeting | 18:37 |
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| morganfainberg | if you don't... we'll approve it and you're stuck with it | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | since defer is closer to accept than deny | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | ok moving on | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Moving role assignment inheritance (OS-INHERIT) to core | 18:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Moving role assignment inheritance (OS-INHERIT) to core (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:39 | |
| morganfainberg | henrynash: o/ | 18:39 |
| henrynash | ok, so a spec for this is here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/200434/ | 18:39 |
| henrynash | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/200434/ | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | fwiw - I'm for this. | 18:40 |
| bknudson | I think we agreed we're moving things from extensions already | 18:40 |
| henrynash | Liek to get people’s views on pushing this in….as I say, the only wrinke is using the change of API (i.e. extension -> core) to provide new inheritance rules (that we think are mosre suitable to generalized project hierachies) | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: this is the API change to change how inheritence works we're considering when moving | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: since it wont be OS-INHERIT anymore | 18:41 |
| bknudson | has to be deprecated | 18:41 |
| bknudson | then we can remove it in v4 | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | OS-INHERIT will maintain the old and be deprecated | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | yes | 18:41 |
| henrynash | bknudson: the old OS-INHERIT will depreacted, but support for 4 cycles in case anyone wants the old sematics | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | but the non-deprecated/new way will be the new inheritence model | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash: at least 4.. we may not remove before v4 | 18:41 |
| * morganfainberg kicks that can waaaaay down the line | 18:42 | |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: agreed | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | if there are concerns about this change - please say so now. | 18:42 |
| bknudson | I haven't looked at all the changes but can't think of a reason to not do it. | 18:42 |
| gyee | same here | 18:42 |
| gyee | defer to next week :) | 18:42 |
| geoffarnold | no concerns | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | gyee: no defer | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | sorry | 18:43 |
| dstanek | I only browsed the change, but it looked OK | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | this one is a yes or no | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | #startvote Accept SPFE for os-inherit behavior change when moved to core (old API/behavior deprecated)? yes, no | 18:43 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: just a question | 18:43 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Accept SPFE for os-inherit behavior change when moved to core (old API/behavior deprecated)? Valid vote options are yes, no. | 18:43 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | #vote yes | 18:44 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: so we'll be proposing a new inheritance api ? | 18:44 |
| gyee | only think I don't like is "GET /projects/{project_id)/groups/{group_id}/roles/inherited" | 18:44 |
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| samueldmq | henrynash: or just moving the old one ? | 18:44 |
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| bknudson | #vote yes | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | samueldmq: it'll be rolled into assignment directly | 18:44 |
| raildo | #vote yes | 18:44 |
| geoffarnold | #vote yes | 18:44 |
| marekd | #vote yes | 18:44 |
| htruta | #vote yes | 18:44 |
| lbragstad | #vote yes | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | samueldmq: OS-INHERIT will be deprecated, but continue on | 18:44 |
| dstanek | #vote yes | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | same behavior | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | #showvote | 18:44 |
| openstack | yes (8): lbragstad, morganfainberg, bknudson, marekd, geoffarnold, dstanek, htruta, raildo | 18:44 |
| samueldmq | I was just thinking about fixing the beharvior of inherited in the new api | 18:44 |
| lhcheng | #vote yes | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | like | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | applying to the node itself | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | samueldmq: can't change behavior | 18:45 |
| henrynash | samueldmq: that’s what we are doing! | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | in the old api | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | morganfainberg: k but we can in the new | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: ^ | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | ? | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | samueldmq: yes and that is the plan :) | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | #vote YES | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | 3 | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | ... | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | 2 | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | ... | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | 1 | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | ... | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | #endvote | 18:45 |
| openstack | Voted on "Accept SPFE for os-inherit behavior change when moved to core (old API/behavior deprecated)?" Results are | 18:45 |
| openstack | yes (10): lbragstad, morganfainberg, lhcheng, bknudson, marekd, geoffarnold, dstanek, htruta, samueldmq, raildo | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash: have at. | 18:46 |
| henrynash | ok! | 18:46 |
| morganfainberg | please reference this meeting irc-log in the bp | 18:46 |
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| henrynash | will do | 18:46 |
| morganfainberg | next topic | 18:46 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Clarifying how domain_id, parent_id and is_domain are used in project hierarchies | 18:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Clarifying how domain_id, parent_id and is_domain are used in project hierarchies (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:46 | |
| morganfainberg | henrynash: you again | 18:46 |
| morganfainberg | this should also be quick | 18:46 |
| henrynash | ok, so this is mainly clarifying in teh API spec how we use these three things | 18:46 |
| henrynash | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/200624/ | 18:46 |
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| henrynash | teh wrinle in this one... | 18:47 |
| * morganfainberg is fine with this one. | 18:47 | |
| henrynash | …is that it clarifies that you can use parent_id on proejct creation to implicitely place the project in the hierarchy and hence what domain it is on | 18:47 |
| henrynash | (it is in) | 18:47 |
| bknudson | cool | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | big +2 | 18:48 |
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| htruta | we're making domain_id optional | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | htruta: only if you provide a parent_id | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | since a parent_id implies a domain_id | 18:48 |
| samueldmq | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | minor usability improvement | 18:49 |
| henrynash | yep | 18:49 |
| morganfainberg | and doesn't break any api compat | 18:49 |
| htruta | what should happen if we pass domain_id but no parent? | 18:49 |
| morganfainberg | htruta: ends up as a child of that domain | 18:49 |
| morganfainberg | parent_id = domain there | 18:49 |
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| henrynash | htruta: then the project is placed as a child of the project acting as that domain | 18:49 |
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| htruta | henrynash, morganfainberg... ok | 18:49 |
| htruta | makes sense | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | any concerns? | 18:50 |
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| htruta | morganfainberg: I'm fine with this | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | please review the spec and score/approve/etc | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | next topic | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Making project.domain_id immutable | 18:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Making project.domain_id immutable (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:51 | |
| morganfainberg | isn't this already the case? | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | i mean defaults to be this way | 18:51 |
| htruta | just following this structure, we might not be able to change domain_id | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | ?? | 18:51 |
| bknudson | I think it's an option | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: yeah its an option | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | but we default to immutable | 18:51 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: not sure about that, since we used to allow it! | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | and if anyone complains about security by toggling that i'm going to snicker and tell them to stop allowing it | 18:52 |
| htruta | I guess the default value is True | 18:52 |
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| htruta | I think we can't allow change domain_id at all | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | htruta: yeah it defaults to immutable | 18:52 |
| htruta | for projects | 18:52 |
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| morganfainberg | htruta: we're going to need to leave the option | 18:52 |
| htruta | once we'll be always changing the parent_id | 18:52 |
| geoffarnold | what are the consequences of being not immutable? | 18:52 |
| htruta | might break somethings in the hierarchy | 18:52 |
| bknudson | we can deprecate mutable. | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | but if anyone says "i did this" i'm going to point them at the CVE | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | that we closed with that option | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: ++ we should deprecate the option for removal | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | see who complains. | 18:53 |
| raildo | geoffarnold: we probably will have problems with nested quotas, or something like that | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | i don't think *anyone* uses that option | 18:53 |
| htruta | geoffarnold: in HMT, we converged to a consensus, where we decided not to change the parent_id of a project | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | raildo: not only that lots of security issues | 18:53 |
| raildo | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:53 |
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| morganfainberg | it's why we made it an option and broke API compat to close the gap [default to immutable][ | 18:54 |
| geoffarnold | thanks | 18:54 |
| htruta | morganfainberg, the option is for proejcts, users and groups | 18:54 |
| htruta | my intention was only making it immutable to projects | 18:54 |
| morganfainberg | htruta: we should deprecate the option for removal across the board | 18:54 |
| morganfainberg | don't remove it, just do the deprecate_for_removal=True | 18:54 |
| htruta | morganfainberg: no sure if I get your point | 18:55 |
| morganfainberg | we can remove it down the line | 18:55 |
| morganfainberg | htruta: look at the options in keystone.common.config, there is an option you can pass to it | 18:55 |
| morganfainberg | htruta: it marks the option as deprecated for removal | 18:55 |
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| morganfainberg | htruta: we will deprecate this option across the board - it really is a security risk to have anyone enble it | 18:55 |
| henrynash | htruta: to protect the hierarchy, we could error if someone tries to chaneg the domain for a project that is anyting more than a 2 level hierarchy (i.e. domain-.project) | 18:56 |
| bknudson | if it should be immutable then there should also be a warning if it is mutable. | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | if someone does enable it and gets pwnd, my answer will be to say "didn't you read the help? it says this is a massive security hole" | 18:56 |
| htruta | bknudson: ++ | 18:56 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson: fair enough | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | htruta: so in short - yeah i'm fine with moving towards truly immutable domain_id across the board | 18:57 |
| geoffarnold | +1 | 18:57 |
| morganfainberg | sounds like we also need a warning added if that option is flipped from default | 18:57 |
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| bknudson | if there was some situation where we wanted to not support renaming in whatever situation then that would be fine with me. | 18:57 |
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| bknudson | "renaming" -> "changing domain" | 18:57 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: ++ | 18:58 |
| htruta | morganfainberg: do you plan to make it immutable to users and groups as well? | 18:58 |
| morganfainberg | htruta: yes please do it across the board with your change | 18:58 |
| gyee | renaming should be allowed | 18:58 |
| morganfainberg | gyee: change_domain_id of <resource> | 18:58 |
| morganfainberg | not "rename" | 18:58 |
| morganfainberg | :) | 18:58 |
| gyee | no | 18:58 |
| gyee | ah | 18:58 |
| htruta | morganfainberg: ok | 18:58 |
| htruta | do we need a spec? | 18:58 |
| geoffarnold | 1 min | 18:58 |
| bknudson | bp or wishlist bug would be fine | 18:59 |
| morganfainberg | htruta: should be a very simple change - mark option as deprecated for removal, make sure we have a warning if it is toggled | 18:59 |
| morganfainberg | htruta: wishlist bug please | 18:59 |
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| htruta | morganfainberg, bknudson: cool | 18:59 |
| morganfainberg | and we're done | 18:59 |
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| morganfainberg | #endmeeting | 18:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:59 | |
| bknudson | thanks | 18:59 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 21 18:59:51 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:59 |
| morganfainberg | thanks everyone | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-07-21-18.01.html | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-07-21-18.01.txt | 18:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-07-21-18.01.log.html | 18:59 |
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| morganfainberg | with 2 seconds to spare... | 19:00 |
| samueldmq | hehe | 19:00 |
| dolphm | henrynash: ping me when you have an update on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/200624 -- i'd love to +2 | 19:00 |
| * morganfainberg looks around at -infra folks | 19:00 | |
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| pleia2 | we'll trickle in eventually :) | 19:00 |
| pabelanger | o/ | 19:00 |
| tchaypo | morninge | 19:00 |
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| jeblair | are infra folks around? | 19:01 |
| pleia2 | oscon wifi, woo | 19:01 |
| Zara_ | o/ | 19:01 |
| nibalizer | hiya | 19:01 |
| AJaeger | o/ | 19:01 |
| fungi | yup | 19:01 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:01 |
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| andersonvom | o/ | 19:01 |
| morganfainberg | pleia2: the wifis theeeeeee wiiiiifiiiiiiiiss /stops channeling the hunchback | 19:01 |
| * fungi has forsaken oscon wifi for cellular modem | 19:01 | |
| * jeblair discovers that the ridge on the top of a model-m is for holding chopsticks | 19:01 | |
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| morganfainberg | jeblair: ooh nice data point | 19:02 |
| fungi | jeblair: THAT'S why it's there. now i know what to do with mine | 19:02 |
| crinkle | o/ | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 21 19:02:31 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-07-14-19.02.html | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #topic Specs approval | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
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| jeblair | #topic Specs approval: Host trystack.o.o site | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: Host trystack.o.o site (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| jeblair | #link host trystack.o.o site spec https://review.openstack.org/195098 | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #info host trystack.o.o site spec was approved | 19:02 |
| jeblair | er, sorry i forgot to push the aprv button on this until today | 19:03 |
| jeblair | but it's merged, and specs.o.o will update when we get a node | 19:03 |
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| pabelanger | danke | 19:03 |
| jeblair | i think this is a bad week to schedule renames with so many folks afk | 19:04 |
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| jeblair | are there any priority-effort related things we should talk about that didn't make the agenda? | 19:05 |
| fungi | none spring to mind | 19:05 |
| jeblair | #topic Puppet-httpd replacement of puppet-apache (pabelanger/nibalizer) | 19:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Puppet-httpd replacement of puppet-apache (pabelanger/nibalizer) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:06 | |
| nibalizer | so paul has made most if not all of these patches | 19:06 |
| nibalizer | im shy to approve them | 19:06 |
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| nibalizer | since it has the potential to be disruptive | 19:06 |
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| pabelanger | for the most part, our puppet apply testing looks good | 19:07 |
| nibalizer | im wondering how we should go about landing it | 19:07 |
| fungi | pabelanger: thanks for working on those! | 19:07 |
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| pabelanger | but I agree, we should try and merge all in same window | 19:07 |
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| fungi | is there a review topic they're all under? | 19:08 |
| jeblair | this is moving from the old version of puppet-apache to our fork, right? | 19:08 |
| nibalizer | im also nervous about lettig these changes age too much and get conflicts etc | 19:08 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: correct | 19:08 |
| pabelanger | fungi: puppet-httpd | 19:08 |
| fungi | pabelanger: thanks | 19:08 |
| jeblair | they _should_ be noops, right? | 19:08 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: yes | 19:09 |
| jeblair | have we landed any of them yet? | 19:09 |
| nibalizer | pabelanger: the top of the stack doesnt remove the apache module any more right? | 19:09 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: I believe a some have been merged | 19:09 |
| pabelanger | let me find one | 19:09 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:puppet-httpd,n,z | 19:09 |
| pabelanger | nibalizer: right | 19:09 |
| jeblair | looks like etherpad has? | 19:10 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: yup | 19:10 |
| mmedvede | pabelanger: tangential - I have noticed you use fully qualified 'include ::<class>' on a few patches. Is that a new recommended way to do includes? or necessity for puppet-httpd. I want to know as I was asked to use same style on one of my patches. | 19:10 |
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| jeblair | huh, that was random, wonder why i approved only that one. ;) | 19:10 |
| crinkle | mmedvede: yes that is preferred | 19:11 |
| pabelanger | mmedvede: Ya, once we get our puppet-4 gates going, you'll need ::<class> | 19:11 |
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| mmedvede | crinkle: pabelanger: thank you | 19:11 |
| jeblair | i think with the apply testing and at least one demonstrated success, we can probably approve them unscheduled. does that work, or would folks prefer to batch them on friday? | 19:12 |
| * anteaya has no opinion | 19:12 | |
| clarkb | unscheduled wfm as long as the approver is able to watch that service | 19:13 |
| nibalizer | ya, agree with clark | 19:13 |
| pabelanger | I can be around when ever it happens, but agree our puppet-apply testing coverged everything | 19:13 |
| fungi | but _do_ keep an eye on puppetboard.o.o after approving, _please_ | 19:14 |
| fungi | then they can at least be reverted if they cause issues | 19:14 |
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| pabelanger | feel free to ping me if any issues come up, I can look into the puppet side | 19:14 |
| jeblair | okay cool, approve at will, and soon, then :) | 19:14 |
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| jeblair | #topic Open discussion | 19:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:15 | |
| nibalizer | sweet | 19:15 |
| fungi | who's at oscon? pleia2 and i are at a table in the "e" area | 19:16 |
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| pabelanger | I'd like to talk about fedora22 dibs. For the most part, ianw has done great work getting diskimage-builder updated for it. | 19:16 |
| clarkb | I am still at home but will likely wander over later today | 19:16 |
| jeblair | drink a beer for me | 19:16 |
| pabelanger | I have some puppet chances in our modules that could use some feedback | 19:16 |
| fungi | jeblair: i already have, but i'll repeat the exercise | 19:16 |
| pabelanger | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/186619/ | 19:16 |
| jeblair | fungi: as many as it takes :) | 19:16 |
| fungi | absolutely | 19:17 |
| AJaeger | fungi: Take some extra for me ;) | 19:17 |
| fungi | you got it | 19:17 |
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| clarkb | pabelanger is there a topic to review? | 19:17 |
| * anteaya is at the nova mid-cycle | 19:17 | |
| clarkb | and is the bulk of the work making our puppet v4 compat? | 19:17 |
| pabelanger | clarkb: I can use fedora-22 | 19:17 |
| pabelanger | clarkb: well, for this we really only need changes to puppet-ntp and puppet-jenkins | 19:18 |
| fungi | clarkb: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:puppet-httpd,n,z | 19:18 |
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| fungi | oh, i guess he meant aside from those | 19:18 |
| jeblair | yeah, and hopefully we can further reduce/eliminate puppet use on test nodes, but that's later | 19:18 |
| pabelanger | but ya, I also wanted to talk about the puppet-4 effort that crinkle is doing, and syncing Gemfile / Rakefiles across our modules. | 19:18 |
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| pabelanger | If people don't mind the automatation, I want to do something like https://review.openstack.org/#/c/204172/ for all our puppet infra modules | 19:19 |
| nibalizer | fungi: pleia2 I'm around pdx but won't be osconning until tomorrow | 19:19 |
| pabelanger | should help keep them in sync for our gate checks | 19:19 |
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| clarkb | syncing gemfiles? | 19:19 |
| fungi | pabelanger: speaking of dib and rpm-based platforms, i would love some way to turn on retaining the package cache in the yum element, if you feel like hacking on that. if not, i'll likely get to it in the next week, but right now we're not actually pre-caching any packages on those platforms | 19:19 |
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| nibalizer | ya something simple to keep the extra bits in the modules synced is ++ | 19:19 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: yeah, i'm hoping that after the initial effort, we don't see a lot of churn here | 19:20 |
| clarkb | dont these files never change? | 19:20 |
| fungi | i _think_ we're caching debs now that my change merged over the weekend, but haven't checked back in on an image to confirm | 19:20 |
| pabelanger | clarkb: they are changing now, for our puppet-4 support | 19:20 |
| jeblair | clarkb: i think they are changing a bit right now as we enable puppet4 stuff | 19:20 |
| nibalizer | clarkb: if we add a new lint-plugin thats a line in our gemfile | 19:20 |
| crinkle | they do change sometimes, especially if we need to emergency-pin a gem in the gemfile | 19:20 |
| jeblair | but after that's done, i think it would be great if they stopped changing :) | 19:20 |
| clarkb | I see | 19:20 |
| pabelanger | fungi: sure, I can look into it. Any info about how you want it to look like works for me | 19:20 |
| jeblair | if they keep changing, we may want to see if we could do something like 'hacking' | 19:20 |
| fungi | pabelanger: something like the envvar toggle that's implemented in the dpkg element | 19:21 |
| clarkb | I thibk that is what the commit message should say then | 19:21 |
| clarkb | rather than "syncing" | 19:21 |
| jeblair | where there is something where we control the release, and that something depends on the rest | 19:21 |
| fungi | pabelanger: a lot of it will be up to what the dib reviewers are willing to accept though | 19:21 |
| crinkle | i think my preference would be not to automate until it becomes clear that these files are changing at an inconvenient pace | 19:21 |
| pabelanger | fungi: okay, I can start looking into it. Expect some more questions from me about it | 19:22 |
| clarkb | crinkle +1 | 19:22 |
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| fungi | pabelanger: sure, and if it gets too black magic don't worry about it for now. i'll likely take a stab at it after i'm home from oscon | 19:22 |
| pabelanger | okay, so in general people are okay with the sync of the files. If ran locally, then decide the future of the process | 19:22 |
| nibalizer | I would like some assurance that the files are identical in all the modules | 19:23 |
| nibalizer | but I don't care about the mechanism | 19:23 |
| pabelanger | Ya, that is my main reasoning too | 19:23 |
| * crinkle afk but preference against automation until later is my stance | 19:23 | |
| pabelanger | to insure we gate the same way for all our puppet modules | 19:23 |
| pabelanger | ensure* | 19:23 |
| nibalizer | well its easy to write a test that just makes sure all the Gemfile, Rakefile md5s are the same | 19:23 |
| nibalizer | i guess that would prevent you from landing a change to one though | 19:24 |
| * nibalizer shrug, not that big of a deal | 19:24 | |
| clarkb | it seems like massive overkill for a problem we havent had | 19:24 |
| pabelanger | to be fair, we've never needed Gemfiles before | 19:24 |
| nibalizer | well it is really annoying when two modules have different lint flags turned on | 19:24 |
| nibalizer | thats a Rakefile thing, but its the same principle | 19:25 |
| clarkb | we make them match now. then dont change them | 19:25 |
| nibalizer | but yea we don't have that problem juts yet | 19:25 |
| clarkb | that should be sufficiemr | 19:25 |
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| pabelanger | well, if we need to add new lint checks, then it has to change. Unless we centralize our lint checks outside of the module | 19:25 |
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| jeblair | good motivation to avoid frequently adding new lint checks :) | 19:26 |
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| pabelanger | Ya, only if puppet didn't introduce breaking changes between releases :D | 19:27 |
| asselin | o/ | 19:27 |
| jesusaurus | i think it would be good to enforce some sort of consistency in the tests across the puppet modules | 19:27 |
| jeblair | yeah, i don't think anyone is arguing that we should be inconsistent | 19:28 |
| pabelanger | this issue is really driving the sync: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/202884/ | 19:28 |
| jeblair | just that a lot of automation in the area is not necessary at the moment | 19:28 |
| pabelanger | since puppet 4 breaks on version checks now | 19:28 |
| jeblair | so, let's stick with pabelanger's manual sync as we work through the puppet4 thing, and if it's a problem after that is complete, look into it further | 19:28 |
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| nibalizer | ok | 19:30 |
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| jeblair | anything else? | 19:30 |
| * anteaya has nothing else | 19:31 | |
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| fungi | all set here | 19:31 |
| pleia2 | zanata testing is continuing at a good pace, good support from carlos at zanata | 19:31 |
| anteaya | pleia2: yay | 19:31 |
| pleia2 | that's all really, happy over here | 19:31 |
| anteaya | pleia2: wooooo | 19:31 |
| jeblair | nifty! | 19:31 |
| fungi | excellent | 19:32 |
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| AJaeger | And StevenK is working nicely on scripts! | 19:32 |
| anteaya | yay StevenK | 19:32 |
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| asselin | for common-ci (downstream-puppet) we just have nodepool & a sample 3rd party script to tie them all together. Almost there! https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/common-ci-sprint | 19:33 |
| anteaya | yay asselin | 19:34 |
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| anteaya | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/common-ci-sprint | 19:34 |
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| jeblair | cool, i'm going to wrap it up for this week and let oscon folks get back to their beer | 19:35 |
| jeblair | thanks everyone! | 19:35 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 19:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:35 | |
| * ttx lurks while lunching | 19:35 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 21 19:35:30 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:35 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-07-21-19.02.html | 19:35 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-07-21-19.02.txt | 19:35 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-07-21-19.02.log.html | 19:35 |
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| * med_ wonders if there is a meeting about to start herein. | 19:59 | |
| ttx | yes | 20:00 |
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| ttx | Anyone here for the TC meeting ? | 20:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:00 |
| * ttx is having lunch in parallel, crazy days | 20:00 | |
| jgriffith | o/ | 20:00 |
| med_ | I think NOVA mid-cycle was considering joining | 20:00 |
| jeblair | o/ | 20:00 |
| * med_ is in Rochester | 20:00 | |
| jaypipes | o/ | 20:00 |
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| ttx | russellb, annegentle, lifeless, mordred, flaper87, dtroyer, markmcclain, sdague: around ? | 20:00 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:01 |
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| sdague | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | and that makes quorum | 20:01 |
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| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 21 20:01:31 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| ttx | OK... here is our agenda for today: | 20:01 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:01 |
| sdague | lifeless is here in room as well, it's break in nova meetup, he'll get to a keyboard | 20:01 |
| ttx | #topic Add the "OpenStack UX" Project | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add the "OpenStack UX" Project (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/199768 | 20:02 |
| ttx | Looks like this one is pretty close now, still missing a couple approvals | 20:02 |
| * ttx checks current state | 20:02 | |
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| ttx | and bites at that chicken skewer at the same time | 20:02 |
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| ttx | yeah, still a few short | 20:02 |
| ttx | Any last-minute question ? | 20:03 |
| ttx | doubt ? uncertainty ? | 20:03 |
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| sdague | I think it's worth a try now that it doesn't have a confusing name | 20:03 |
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| ttx | still missing >=1 | 20:04 |
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| ttx | if no question and novote, let's postpone it | 20:04 |
| ttx | ah, 7 now | 20:04 |
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| ttx | if no more question I'll approve it now | 20:04 |
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| ttx | ... is silence a yes ? | 20:05 |
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| jaypipes | ++ | 20:05 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 20:05 |
| dtroyer_zz | o/ | 20:05 |
| jeblair | yes :) | 20:05 |
| russellb | this group seems pretty happy to express disagreement, i wouldn't worry about that! | 20:06 |
| ttx | alright, let's see if this can merge with curent state of repo | 20:06 |
| russellb | silence == passive agreement | 20:06 |
| ttx | #topic Add Stackforge Retirement resolution | 20:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add Stackforge Retirement resolution (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:06 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/192016 | 20:06 |
| ttx | We had good discussion and progress on this one. I posted my last concern as a comment earlier today. | 20:06 |
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| ttx | It's about ripping out the "stackforge" name and the confusion it may cause in our wider community | 20:06 |
| ttx | On one hand it's true that since the requirements change (and the name would no longer be used in the git repo prefix) it's our occasion to change it and drop the baggage | 20:06 |
| Piet | Sorry I'm late... | 20:07 |
| ttx | On the other I think we can technically have stackforge things under openstack/* git repo prefix, beef up the requirements and *still* call the idea stackforge | 20:07 |
| ttx | Piet: you're in ! | 20:07 |
| ttx | and not forcing people to learn a new "experimental" concept | 20:07 |
| Piet | Thank you for your support! | 20:07 |
| ttx | but maybe OI'm overthinking this... Anyone else with same concern ? | 20:07 |
| jeblair | that's a good point, and i gave it a good thinking about, but i also think it would be more confusing to keep it.... it actually adds one more thing to the giant pile of things people think stackforge is | 20:07 |
| sdague | yeh, it seems more confusing to keep it honestly | 20:07 |
| annegent_ | Piet were you able to address Diana's concerns | 20:07 |
| ttx | I'm also not sure "experimental" is the right term to describe it tbh. Absence of maturity is not the only reason to be in stackforge. | 20:08 |
| sdague | because it will mean something different to people that were here before the change, then those after | 20:08 |
| anteaya | can you outline the confusion around the name stackforge? | 20:08 |
| ttx | and there is no "experimental" requirement in the experimental equirements | 20:08 |
| annegent_ | (sorry all, super slow wifi) | 20:08 |
| anteaya | of all the things we have confusion around, I had been feeling stackforge wasn't one of them | 20:08 |
| ttx | anteaya: is that a question for me ? | 20:08 |
| jeblair | ttx: well, i'm interesting in projects becoming openstack projects under the big tent; the tc said "we need a place for experimental projects" so i added that. | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | retiring the name is a good idea, but I see ttx's point about "experimental" | 20:08 |
| anteaya | the room | 20:08 |
| jeblair | ttx: i honestly don't know that i'm particularly interested in providing hosting for projects that don't want to be part of openstack in some way. | 20:09 |
| jgriffith | annegent_: i think the suggestion of confusion is keeping it and changing the definition of it | 20:09 |
| ttx | anteaya: I agree that stackforge is a known quantity and we are about to force people through a new concept (again) | 20:09 |
| Piet | Hi, Anne. We addressed the concerns internally. I believe at least some of her comments with about internal process | 20:09 |
| jgriffith | Oops.. anteaya | 20:09 |
| ttx | jeblair: ok, so that's just forward-looking | 20:09 |
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| anteaya | what is redefined for it | 20:09 |
| sdague | jeblair: so... test case, gerrit-dash-creator is that a thing that should just move to github under this model? | 20:09 |
| ttx | jeblair: there are projects in stackforge right now that are not really experimental | 20:09 |
| jeblair | sdague: no, it's totally in service of openstack | 20:09 |
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| anteaya | the namespace would be changed but the not under the tc governace would remain the same | 20:09 |
| sdague | jeblair: ok, would it get flagged experimental? | 20:10 |
| anteaya | ttx: agreed, for instance stacktach | 20:10 |
| ttx | exactly | 20:10 |
| jeblair | sdague: if it wants to be? but it could also join openstack-infra if it wanted. | 20:10 |
| jgriffith | anteaya: true, but the introduction of big-tent and experimental is what I believe some are concerned about. FTR, I'm not one of those, so I'm just trying to express what I've interpreted here | 20:10 |
| anteaya | which I believe is happy under stackforge | 20:10 |
| med_ | puppet-openstack is under stackforge. | 20:10 |
| anteaya | jgriffith: thank you | 20:11 |
| med_ | Not sure it's "experimental" more of a perpetual WIP | 20:11 |
| lifeless | oh hi | 20:11 |
| lifeless | are we doing this? cool. | 20:11 |
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| ttx | med_: it's being moved over since the project team was accepted. | 20:11 |
| * med_ thought lifeless sat somewhere else or would have fetched. | 20:11 | |
| med_ | 'k | 20:11 |
| lifeless | we really can't hold the nova meetup to not do anything for an hour | 20:12 |
| lifeless | so, I'm going to focus on the nova meetup again - we're starting up | 20:12 |
| ttx | so in summary I think we have nailed down the intention now, but we need to figure out the branding/naming | 20:12 |
| lifeless | if you need me, get someone in the room here to shout | 20:12 |
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| ttx | because that's something we'll have to communicate to the wider community as a ting, we can't really figure that out in steps | 20:12 |
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| ttx | jeblair: what's the path forward for a project like stacktach, which is basically under stackforge to avoid the TC governance and rules ? | 20:13 |
| ttx | not because it's experimental | 20:13 |
| ttx | not because it's not really about openstack | 20:13 |
| ttx | should it becmoe "experimental" ? | 20:14 |
| zaneb | it is kind of experimental, isn't it? | 20:14 |
| ttx | some say ess than ceilometer | 20:14 |
| ttx | less* | 20:14 |
| med_ | (rimshot) | 20:14 |
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| dhellmann | I think we should reserve that status for projects that intend some day to become official | 20:14 |
| russellb | i think experimental should be things that intend to become not experimental | 20:14 |
| russellb | in terms of governance | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | I'm not sure stacktach fits that | 20:14 |
| jeblair | why wouldn't they? | 20:15 |
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| zaneb | I thought that's why they wanted to avoid the TC rules (because they were experimenting & wanted to move faster) | 20:15 |
| russellb | sounds like a "find another home" situation if the project really didn't intend to become official for whatever reason | 20:15 |
| jeblair | the barrier is quite low now. | 20:15 |
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| russellb | s/didn't/doesn't/ | 20:15 |
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| ttx | jeblair: so the answer is... get in or get on the highway ? | 20:15 |
| jeblair | i don't think the tc is very effective at slowing projects down... | 20:15 |
| jeblair | ttx: i think the answer is, it depends on the project. | 20:15 |
| jeblair | we're just speculating about stacktach's motives | 20:16 |
| jeblair | so many projects are on stackforge because they want to be part of our community, and we have now made it easy to be part of our community | 20:16 |
| sdague | yeh, I don't personally feel like openstack needs to sign up for free gerrit + ci hosting for any random thing. It's ok if some amount of stackforge doesn't fit, and needs to find a new home. | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | ok, but I think the point isn't about that one project, it's trying to identify what cases might come up and make sure the message is clear for all of those cases | 20:16 |
| jeblair | i honestly doubt that whatever drove stacktach to think that stackforge was the right place for them still applies | 20:16 |
| anteaya | I had thought that was part of our grow the ecosystem model | 20:17 |
| ttx | sdague: and I'd actually agree with that. I just think htey need to know about this discussion | 20:17 |
| ttx | I wonder if we should not have an email thread about this proposal, since it's currently flying under the radar of a lot of projects that will be affected by this change | 20:17 |
| anteaya | the layer of things that were openstack but not under tc governance | 20:17 |
| ttx | Giving them the opportunity to voice their opinion of it before we approve it would be good, since it will directly impact them... | 20:17 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: i would say that if a project has contempt for the tc and the wider openstack development community, then this is probably not the place for that project. | 20:17 |
| annegent_ | zaneb: nope, and ttx how do we know any project's motivations? | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: I agree with that | 20:17 |
| annegent_ | I'm uncomfortable talking about a project without having a rep here to discuss their motivations. | 20:17 |
| russellb | jeblair: dhellmann agree | 20:18 |
| anteaya | jeblair: I don't think opting out of elections and so on is expressing contempt | 20:18 |
| edleafe | jeblair: I don't think 'contempt' is accurate | 20:18 |
| ttx | annegent_: let's say it's an hypothetical project | 20:18 |
| anteaya | I think it is exerciseing an option for being in the ecosystem | 20:18 |
| jeblair | edleafe: great, because that's the strawman that has been proposed, so if we can get a better one, let's do it. :) | 20:18 |
| anteaya | and I had thought that was part of the vision to grow openstack | 20:18 |
| ttx | there are projects in stackforge that won't defer control over their project to the tc | 20:18 |
| annegent_ | ttx: there are motivations and attitudes throughout, stackforge or openstack, doesn't matter. | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: fwiw, both pecan and wsme will likely move back to github, not because of contempt, but because they're not solely used by openstack | 20:18 |
| edleafe | ttx: what sort of control will the TC be exerting on them? | 20:19 |
| ttx | dhellmann: and I don't think that's a great outcome tbh | 20:19 |
| ttx | edleafe: potentially anything | 20:19 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: what motivates that? | 20:19 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: i think they contribute significantly to the openstack mission | 20:19 |
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| jeblair | dhellmann: and we have lots of projects in openstack that are not solely used by openstack | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: ok, well, they're not experimental and don't want TC oversight because this project is not the only one driving their requirements | 20:20 |
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| jgriffith | jeblair: ttx just curious, if they're widely used elsewhere, and still open on github what's the down-side? | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | and it sounds like stackforge is closing? | 20:20 |
| ttx | edleafe: we wield the "do that or get out of openstack" threat, we've just been pretty conservative at using that nuclear optoin so far, mostly because we didn't have that many projects | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | maybe I'm wildly misunderstanding the intent here | 20:20 |
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| jgriffith | dhellmann: At first thought I personally wish "more" would find homes outside of the OpenStack umbrella so to speak, it means they're diverse and useful in other places (I think) | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | jgriffith: note the naming guidelines oslo uses, for just that reason | 20:21 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: the intent is primarily to put all the projects in the 'openstack' namespace so we can stop moving them around all the time :). secondarily, it's to push projects that should be in the big tent into it. | 20:21 |
| jeblair | so perhaps we need a word that's not experimental and a word that's not stackforge. | 20:21 |
| jgriffith | dhellmann: indeed | 20:21 |
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| dhellmann | jeblair: ok, well, if you just want to rename their git repos I don't think that will be an issue, and "retirement" may have given me the wrong impression | 20:22 |
| edleafe | jeblair: 'outdoor' projects (i.e., not in the big tent)? | 20:22 |
| ttx | jeblair: what if we just moved all of stackforge/ to openstack/ and kept stackforge the same ? Solve the technical problem first ? | 20:22 |
| jgriffith | side-shows :) | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: note, there wasn't any complaint, it isn't a big deal for those projects | 20:22 |
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| ttx | we could have a stackforge.yaml that lists them so that we know which is which | 20:22 |
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| jeblair | dhellmann: yeah, we're clearly still trying to figure our way here | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | ttx: or we could do what we do now, and not include them in project lists at all | 20:23 |
| ttx | edleafe: I like outdoor, but I'd rather not change names if we can avoid it :) | 20:23 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: right | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: sure, I guess my point was just that it may be natural for some projects to decide to take the opportunity to move | 20:23 |
| edleafe | ttx: just a suggestion :) | 20:23 |
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| jeblair | dhellmann: that's fine -- it's only the suggestion that we might make a missstep that would cause a project contributing to the openstack mission to think they _had_ to move that concerns me | 20:24 |
| ttx | My take on this is that to solve an immediate problem (repo renames) we design a chnage that will have lots of side-effects on our community and need to be carefully considered and discussed | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: yeah, that wasn't as clear in early drafts -- I'll review it again with that in mind | 20:24 |
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| ttx | and I'd like the discussion on that to take some time, but I think solving the repo rename issue can be done fast | 20:25 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: it's changing. earlier, i would have expected those projects to join the big tent. | 20:25 |
| ttx | jeblair: anything preventing a massive stackforge rename to happen tomorrow ? | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: I think the pecan team is pretty happy with the relationship they have with the community now, and aren't looking for more oversight that a move like that would imply | 20:26 |
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| fungi | probably the biggest hurdle to a mass rename is scheduling/messaging | 20:26 |
| jeblair | ttx: just a few hundred person-hours of work :) | 20:26 |
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| dhellmann | would it buy is anything to just stop adding new projects, and continue doing renames as-needed? | 20:26 |
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| ttx | jeblair: that we would have to do anyway, right ? | 20:27 |
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| fungi | at least if we do it all at once, we can rip off that band-aid and have it over with rather than death by a thousand cuts over the next several years | 20:27 |
| jeblair | ttx: right -- we're okay signing up for the renames, just not continuing indefinitely :) | 20:27 |
| anteaya | ttx the hope is that a project aimed for teh openstack namespace doesn't expect a rename as part of their workflow | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | fungi: that makes sense | 20:27 |
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| ttx | jeblair: right, we would just do a one-stop rename of all stackforge/* to openstack/* | 20:28 |
| anteaya | ttx namespace, big tent, offical - pick your term | 20:28 |
| jeblair | so it seems like the tc's feeling this week is that it doesn't want to change anything about stackforge at all, and would like to keep the stackforge "program" as-is but move it into the openstack namespace to facilitate migration? | 20:28 |
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| ttx | still call it stackforge and then have a longer discussion on the future of that | 20:28 |
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| ttx | jeblair: I think that would get you to 80% of your objectives, twice as fast | 20:28 |
| ttx | jeblair: My feeling is that we have to take more time to discuss changing stackforge into anything else | 20:29 |
| ttx | including a ML discussion | 20:29 |
| ttx | and we can solve the immediate problem faster | 20:29 |
| jeblair | ttx: i suspect we will lose the inertia to change it; i don't think anyone _really_ wants to change anything about it. | 20:29 |
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| dhellmann | I would like to see a ML discussion, too. I think eventually it does make sense to "close" stackforge in some sense and retire the name. | 20:30 |
| ttx | jeblair: maybe. once we remove the pain, the fuel will be gone | 20:30 |
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| jeblair | my hope is to convince everyone that the big tent is big enough for all of these projects, but that can wait. :) | 20:31 |
| ttx | jeblair: so I would pick one of two ways: continue with the larger change and start a discussion on the ML about it... or pass a resolution for the aggressive renaming of the git namespaces | 20:31 |
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| ttx | without changing the governance behind it | 20:31 |
| ttx | at least in a first step | 20:31 |
| jeblair | do we want a stackforge.yaml file, or just, no file for stackforge and you add yourself to projects.yaml when you want to join the tent? | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | I think the latter | 20:31 |
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| jeblair | dhellmann: me too | 20:32 |
| ttx | I could do with bot | 20:32 |
| ttx | h | 20:32 |
| ttx | I've met with a number of very confused folks lately, and I feel like changing stackforge today would be the straw that breaks the camel back | 20:32 |
| ttx | but those same people never cloned a repo | 20:32 |
| ttx | so the namespace migration would not affect them | 20:32 |
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| ttx | ok, we need to move on to other agenda items... | 20:33 |
| jeblair | so next version: stackforge continues as-is, no registry of stackforge projects, but stackforge projects are created in openstack/ namespace | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | does anyone know how many stackforge repos there are, roughly? | 20:33 |
| jeblair | i'll have that ready by next meeting | 20:33 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: 326 | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: yeah, with renames for existing projects to be scheduled in short order if you want to include that | 20:33 |
| ttx | and moved over in a short timeframe so that we don't keep both | 20:33 |
| jeblair | minus a few that haven't moved over | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: that's a pretty exact estimate :-) | 20:33 |
| jeblair | deceptively exact ;) | 20:34 |
| ttx | jeblair: do you have enough to move forward, or need more on this topic ? | 20:34 |
| jeblair | ttx: got it, thanks | 20:34 |
| fungi | 309 repos in the stackforge namespace as of today | 20:34 |
| ttx | there are quite a few repos that are scheduled to move already :) | 20:34 |
| fungi | oh, you're counting attic probably | 20:34 |
| ttx | #topic Adds guidelines for project and service names | 20:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adds guidelines for project and service names (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:34 | |
| ttx | (would be great to identify dead and move them to attic directly) | 20:35 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/201160 | 20:35 |
| ttx | annegentle: would you like to introduce this one ? | 20:35 |
| annegent_ | ttx: sure! | 20:35 |
| lifeless | I think the TC oversight is the big thing | 20:35 |
| lifeless | bah, way back on discussion, sorry. | 20:35 |
| annegent_ | wait I'm not nearly as enthusiastic about this topic as it sounds! | 20:35 |
| annegent_ | :) | 20:35 |
| ttx | not sure eating while chairing this meeting was such a great idea. Cold food seems to be the net result | 20:35 |
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| jeblair | ttx: welcome to my world | 20:36 |
| ttx | lifeless: it's a bait-and-switch scheme. Open the tent, bring the baton | 20:36 |
| ttx | control all the things | 20:36 |
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| ttx | so.. anyone with questions on boring naming stuff? | 20:37 |
| annegent_ | So, partially it gets interesting with jaypipes last question. | 20:37 |
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| ttx | I have a few remarks wit hthe application and the result of it :) | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | annegent_: can you explain the "Use modeul if it is consuming other services" thing? does that mean literally put the word "module" in the name somewhere? | 20:37 |
| annegent_ | "We don't want two OpenStack Compute APIs, but we could conceivably have more than one project that published *the* OpenStack Compute API." -- jaypipes | 20:37 |
| jeblair | what's with the reference to the ibm style guide? | 20:37 |
| edleafe | agree that using project name for the service is terribad | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | annegent_: I don't think jaypipes is right about that. | 20:38 |
| annegent_ | jeblair: in all writing circles you need a final arbiter | 20:38 |
| annegent_ | IBM is pretty much the only tech company besides Microsoft still publishing a tech pubs style guide | 20:38 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/201670 | 20:38 |
| annegent_ | usually in open source we would have used the old Sun Microsystems one | 20:38 |
| ttx | This one is a strawman showing how the application of the current rules would look ^ | 20:38 |
| jeblair | annegent_: and it would help with choosing terms like this? | 20:38 |
| annegent_ | but Oracle didn't keep it in publishing | 20:38 |
| annegent_ | jeblair: bare-metal or bare metal? | 20:38 |
| annegent_ | jeblair: find an arbiter and let them decide rather than giving writers time to debate | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | this is like pep8 for names in documentation | 20:39 |
| jeblair | annegent_: ah, i understand now. that may warrant an extra sentence in the governance change. :) | 20:39 |
| annegent_ | jeblair: :) I can do. | 20:39 |
| ttx | annegent_: in the strawman application reiew maybe "Image" for Glance and "Message" for zaqar feels a bit raw | 20:39 |
| ttx | Especially with Cue being "Message broker" | 20:39 |
| annegent_ | I'm also fine with removing the "module" rule but it does mean changes to existing docs. | 20:39 |
| annegent_ | ttx: I too felt like plural as a rule might be a better rule. Images Messages | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | annegent_: I'm not asking for a change, I just don't understand the statement there. | 20:40 |
| annegent_ | (well, I don't know if too is correct) | 20:40 |
| ttx | Computes! | 20:40 |
| dhellmann | annegent_: I think ttx means that "Message broker" isn't sufficiently descriptive, because there are a couple of things that are related to message brokers | 20:40 |
| annegent_ | dhellmann: ah | 20:40 |
| annegent_ | ttx: Computing, Networking, Imaging, Messaging | 20:40 |
| annegent_ | Storing | 20:40 |
| dhellmann | cue is message brokers as a service, zaqar uses a message broker to deliver messages | 20:40 |
| annegent_ | see all kinds of rules we can make up | 20:40 |
| ttx | no I mean Service: Message and Service: Message broker sounds pretty... similar but still different ? | 20:41 |
| ttx | (and zaqar is also a broker, right? | 20:41 |
| ttx | ) | 20:41 |
| annegent_ | eep. I guess? | 20:41 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: oh... ok... | 20:41 |
| * ttx is even more puzzles now | 20:41 | |
| dhellmann | some of this confusion seems to stem from the old need to have a unique name for integrated projects | 20:41 |
| * jaypipes rejoins meeting... | 20:42 | |
| ttx | right | 20:42 |
| annegent_ | hey jaypipes | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | maybe rather than a service name, we should just have a short description, and use the project name in the docs | 20:42 |
| jeblair | perhaps cue should be "Message broker provisioning" or something | 20:42 |
| annegent_ | dhellmann: right I agree. But for docs we need unique names | 20:42 |
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| dhellmann | annegent_: projects have unique names already, right? | 20:42 |
| zaneb | jeblair: ++ and ditto for Trove, which is not a database | 20:42 |
| jeblair | zaneb: right | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | annegent_: there are not 2 Cue projects | 20:42 |
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| ttx | while magnetodb is | 20:42 |
| annegent_ | dhellmann: we avoid the use project name in docs so that users don't have to do a lookup for "what is trove?" | 20:42 |
| ttx | or not | 20:43 |
| annegent_ | dhellmann: "what is cue? I have to go to another place to look it up" | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | annegent_: I can see where that would be appropriate sometimes | 20:43 |
| ttx | zaneb: the distinction there would be, indeed, useful | 20:43 |
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| jeblair | (yeah, our codenames are decidedly unfriendly for new users/deployers) | 20:43 |
| annegent_ | dhellmann: it's a bad experience | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | sure, ok | 20:43 |
| annegent_ | for pretty much everyone | 20:43 |
| zaneb | ttx: exactly, though not the only conceivable kind of database by a wide margin | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | so let's make more descriptive project names, then | 20:43 |
| jeblair | i was confused as a newbie when we had 3 projects. | 20:43 |
| annegent_ | jeblair: heh | 20:43 |
| annegent_ | jeblair: I kept calling swift nova and the hateful stares finally made me stop :) | 20:44 |
| * dhellmann only pretends to know what any of these projects do | 20:44 | |
| edleafe | I still have to look up half of the project names | 20:44 |
| ttx | zaneb: I like provisioning. makes it clear it's not dataplane api | 20:44 |
| jeblair | annegent_: hateful stares as a service | 20:44 |
| zaneb | +1 | 20:44 |
| annegent_ | so: nouns not gerunds (-ing) | 20:44 |
| annegent_ | service not project | 20:44 |
| ttx | foundations as a service is popular lately | 20:44 |
| annegent_ | be legal | 20:44 |
| annegent_ | no more "module" | 20:45 |
| ttx | ok, so how about we push that discussion to the review ? | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | annegent_: "be legal"? | 20:45 |
| annegent_ | dhellmann: just that you don't add OpenStack automatically to a service name | 20:45 |
| ttx | so far it didn't get that much attention, so it's still at early stages | 20:45 |
| edleafe | It seems that one size doesn't fit all. Some projects provide a clearly defined service (compute), while others are fancier combinations that offer a blend of things | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | annegent_: oh, ok | 20:45 |
| annegent_ | dhellmann: that's "illegal" | 20:45 |
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| dhellmann | annegent_: some of these rules would make more sense with these explanations included inline :-) | 20:45 |
| annegent_ | ttx: fair 'nuff. Anything I should patch today? Maybe remove modules. | 20:45 |
| annegent_ | dhellmann: oh maybe examples would be useful in the guidelines? | 20:46 |
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| lifeless | edleafe: is compute that clearly defined? containers in, containers out, containers sort-of-in ... :) | 20:46 |
| ttx | annegent_: I like adding provisioning where applicable | 20:46 |
| annegent_ | dhellmann: I can do that | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | annegent_: I would not presume to tell a doc expert how to explain things best. ;-) | 20:46 |
| annegent_ | dhellmann: ha, you're better at documenting governance than I | 20:46 |
| annegent_ | ttx: ok | 20:46 |
| ttx | ok, moving on | 20:46 |
| annegent_ | sounds good thanks | 20:46 |
| ttx | #topic New projects have to meet all existing policies. | 20:46 |
| edleafe | lifeless: :) | 20:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "New projects have to meet all existing policies. (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:46 | |
| jeblair | dhellmann: ouch, not sure how i'd feel about that if i were you? :) | 20:46 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/201766 | 20:46 |
| ttx | I think that's just a clarification, and the suggested wording is an improvement | 20:46 |
| ttx | Still missing a couple votes last time I looked | 20:46 |
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| jaypipes | ttx: angdraug had a request on that one that I think is worthwhile. | 20:47 |
| * ttx checks now | 20:47 | |
| lifeless | +2 for great consensus | 20:47 |
| annegent_ | jeblair: oh no offense meant to dhellmann :) | 20:47 |
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| dhellmann | jeblair, annegent_ : I'm still trying to decide ;-) | 20:47 |
| ttx | jaypipes: could eb added as subsequent commit | 20:47 |
| annegent_ | :) | 20:47 |
| ttx | there is nothing wrong in current proposal, could just be more detailed. | 20:47 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: I think angdraug's request is best as subsequent edits: they're asking for some existing policies to be better documented | 20:47 |
| angdraug | just added comment earlier today that I can be mostly satisfied with making "all policies" a hyperlink to governance.openstack.org | 20:48 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: which is fine, but in no way detracts from us saying that existing policies apply to both existing and new projects | 20:48 |
| ttx | Would be great if he submitted it directly :) | 20:48 |
| angdraug | the rest should be done as separate fixups, yes | 20:48 |
| jaypipes | ttx. lifeless: sure, followup patch woul dbe fine. | 20:48 |
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| ttx | ok, we have majority, will approve i 30 sec | 20:48 |
| jaypipes | #action angdraug to submit amendment to that guideline. | 20:49 |
| ttx | #topic Introduce the "deliverables" concept | 20:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Introduce the "deliverables" concept (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:49 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/202583 | 20:49 |
| ttx | I'll let you read the commit message there. The idea is that we need to track user-facing units of software, which in some cases do not align to git repository boundaries | 20:49 |
| ttx | Hence the proposed introduction of a "deliverable" concept that maps 1:n to git repositories | 20:49 |
| annegent_ | I like deliverables! | 20:49 |
| ttx | And since that's the user-facing bit and tags apply to user-facing things, it makes sense | 20:49 |
| ttx | to apply tags at that level rather than at the git repo level | 20:49 |
| ttx | don't pay attention to the fact the change fails tests | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | we've already organized the new openstack/releases repository along these lines | 20:50 |
| ttx | it's because we need to evolve tools... I want to see if the idea sounds good enough that I can statr working on tooling changes | 20:50 |
| ttx | so I'm not looking for +1s now, rather for lack of -1s | 20:50 |
| annegent_ | ok | 20:50 |
| ttx | does that change generally sounds like a good idea ? let me know on the review and i'll continue working on it | 20:51 |
| russellb | concept makes good sense | 20:51 |
| jeblair | i really like the concept. | 20:51 |
| jeblair | and if i can bikeshed for a moment, i also really like it when lists are indented (like in the yaml spec) | 20:51 |
| dhellmann | ttx: sdague had a patch up for a new devstack tag that still seemed to apply to a repo, did you see that? | 20:51 |
| anteaya | ttx actually starts to help me understand the various parts of a given project better | 20:52 |
| ttx | jeblair: please add that to review as comment, I had that file autogenerated | 20:52 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: https://review.openstack.org/203785 | 20:52 |
| ttx | ack | 20:52 |
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| ttx | jeblair: I'd see all puppet-* from infra as a single deliverable for example | 20:52 |
| ttx | or not | 20:52 |
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| ttx | frees us from repo boundaries | 20:53 |
| russellb | is that actually delivered anywhere? | 20:53 |
| ttx | not really | 20:53 |
| russellb | i think it makes sense for all the stuff released as part of openstack, though | 20:53 |
| ttx | it's continuous deployed | 20:53 |
| ttx | yeah, it doesn't make tat much sense for things that are not released, to be honest | 20:53 |
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| jeblair | yeah, i think releasing infra puppet-* is a long way down the road, if at all. | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | just because it's not packaged doesn't mean its not released, right? | 20:54 |
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| ttx | I hesitated with having a special section for "extra-repos" outside deliverables | 20:54 |
| ttx | for specs and all | 20:54 |
| ttx | support rpeos | 20:54 |
| ttx | sice those are not "deliverables" in any sense | 20:54 |
| ttx | anyway, need to move on. Please review and let me know | 20:55 |
| ttx | #topic Workgroup reports | 20:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Workgroup reports (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:55 | |
| ttx | * Next tags | 20:55 |
| ttx | We had a meeting for the "next tags" WG last week, notes at | 20:55 |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/next-tags-wg | 20:55 |
| jeblair | if infra has a combined deliverable, it may end up being very large :) | 20:55 |
| ttx | Conclusion is we agreed on drafting a few new tags in the near future and push that to the TC | 20:55 |
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| ttx | Details in the etherpad for those interested to see what we brainstormed | 20:55 |
| ttx | * Project team guide | 20:55 |
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| ttx | I need reviews on that to push the changes I suggested, last time I looked only dhellmann did review | 20:55 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/is:open+project:openstack/project-team-guide+branch:master,n,z | 20:55 |
| ttx | jeblair: any chance you could you look into that ? | 20:55 |
| ttx | We also wait for flaper87 to make progress on the Open development chapter (or post the current state) | 20:56 |
| ttx | Then it will be ready for publication | 20:56 |
| annegent_ | nice work | 20:56 |
| ttx | * Comms | 20:56 |
| ttx | annegent_: news? | 20:56 |
| annegent_ | I can write a post this week. | 20:56 |
| annegent_ | Also we now have a grouping link. | 20:56 |
| ttx | cool. UX! | 20:56 |
| annegent_ | #link https://www.openstack.org/blog/category/technical-committee-updates/ | 20:56 |
| russellb | nice | 20:57 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:57 | |
| ttx | jeblair: We have a few old repo-change governance reviews blocked on Infra PTL +1 : | 20:57 |
| ttx | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196837/ | 20:57 |
| ttx | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/194284/ | 20:57 |
| ttx | not sure if those are blocked intentionally or just slipped through | 20:57 |
| ttx | There was an answer to the CLA question on the foundation list: | 20:57 |
| jeblair | slipped through | 20:58 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/foundation/2015-July/002030.html | 20:58 |
| ttx | haven't had time to parse it | 20:58 |
| russellb | i generally interpreted it as ACKing our interpretation from Vancouver | 20:58 |
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| russellb | with some more detail | 20:58 |
| ttx | I'll give it a read | 20:58 |
| annegent_ | I couldn't figure out if somehow sdague posted to the board list? | 20:58 |
| russellb | board will discuss and hopefully officially approve the overall plan at board meeting next week | 20:59 |
| russellb | annegent_: no | 20:59 |
| ttx | yes, the "personalization" of the request was a bit disturbing | 20:59 |
| sdague | when is the board meeting? | 20:59 |
| russellb | sdague: tuesday | 20:59 |
| annegent_ | 7/28 | 20:59 |
| sdague | ok, cool | 20:59 |
| sdague | yeh, it seemed like mostly an ACK, I was happy with that | 20:59 |
| russellb | yeah, and hopefully on tuesday we can make it more official too | 20:59 |
| ttx | looks like saying it's "sean's request" makes it less than "the TC request" | 20:59 |
| ttx | (no offense) | 20:59 |
| russellb | right, but i don't see any reason to pick at that unless we didn't like the content | 21:00 |
| * jeblair moves that the TC thank sean for making that request :) | 21:00 | |
| ttx | sure | 21:00 |
| sdague | ttx: yeh, well, I think the original request was pretty clear that it was generally TC supported | 21:00 |
| russellb | yep | 21:00 |
| IgorYozhikov | I have a question about project for deb package proposed by zigo, when it could be discussed? | 21:00 |
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| ttx | sdague: right, which is why I cringed at that subject line | 21:00 |
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| ttx | anywya, out of time | 21:01 |
| russellb | yeah that was weird, but i say ignore it since the content is moving forward with what we want | 21:01 |
| annegent_ | sure, sounds good | 21:01 |
| ttx | personalization of requests from an elected body is a known tactic | 21:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 21 21:01:31 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-07-21-20.01.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-07-21-20.01.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-07-21-20.01.log.html | 21:01 |
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| annegent_ | ttx: tactic for what end? | 21:01 |
| jeblair | diminishing them, i would imagine | 21:01 |
| russellb | right | 21:02 |
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| ttx | annegent_: to make the request sound like a personal thing and not something coming from the legitimate body | 21:02 |
| annegent_ | oo interesting | 21:02 |
| russellb | well if it was intentional and passive aggressive, whatever | 21:02 |
| ttx | I'm seeing that happen in my town council | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | maybe we need an official TC mailing address :-) | 21:02 |
| sdague | heh, well, people at the board meeting could mention that | 21:02 |
| * ttx learns new tricks from real politics | 21:02 | |
| anteaya | IgorYozhikov: I suggest sending an email to the -dev list and cc'ing the -tc list, then request the concern get on next week's agenda | 21:02 |
| russellb | sdague: i'll be sure to clarify if it's ever mentioned as a sdague thing and not a TC thing | 21:03 |
| russellb | i'll make sure to re-emphasize that it's the TC's position and request that we move forward here | 21:03 |
| angdraug | anteaya: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-July/069377.html | 21:03 |
| jeblair | russellb: thank you | 21:03 |
| IgorYozhikov | anteaya: thanks | 21:03 |
| sdague | russellb: thanks | 21:03 |
| angdraug | should that be fwd'ed to -tc? | 21:03 |
| russellb | yep np | 21:03 |
| dhellmann | anteaya, IgorYozhikov : yes, please send email since we're out of time today | 21:03 |
| dhellmann | russellb: ty | 21:03 |
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| ttx | cheers all | 21:03 |
| russellb | o/ | 21:04 |
| anteaya | angdraug IgorYozhikov request it be added to next week's tc agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 21:04 |
| IgorYozhikov | dhellmann: ok, going to do it early at morning | 21:04 |
| dhellmann | angdraug, IgorYozhikov : we're working on ways to stop adding stackforge projects, so you'll want to go right to openstack/ -- see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/192016/ | 21:04 |
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| IgorYozhikov | dhellmann: I thought about it and may be it will be better to try to establish new repos under opnstack name-space instead of stackforge | 21:07 |
| dhellmann | IgorYozhikov: ++ | 21:08 |
| angdraug | so the plan is for IgorYozhikov to update the proposal s/stackforge/openstack/g and send to -dev and -tc, right? | 21:08 |
| angdraug | just crossing the i's and dotting the t's :) | 21:09 |
| IgorYozhikov | angdraug: yes, i'll do it :) | 21:09 |
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| IgorYozhikov | dhellmann: angdraug, thanks for your advice. | 21:11 |
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| loquacities | hi everyone! | 23:32 |
| JRobinson__ | loquacities, o/ | 23:32 |
| darrenc | hello! | 23:32 |
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| katomo | Hi | 23:33 |
| loquacities | #startmeeting docteam | 23:33 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 21 23:33:13 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is loquacities. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 23:33 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 23:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 23:33 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'docteam' | 23:33 |
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| loquacities | hi JRobinson__ | 23:33 |
| loquacities | hi katomo | 23:33 |
| loquacities | who else is here? | 23:33 |
| dnavale | hi loquacities | 23:33 |
| furface | hey | 23:33 |
| loquacities | adahms mentioned he might be a bit late | 23:33 |
| loquacities | heya dnavale and furface :) | 23:33 |
| loquacities | thanks for coming early :) | 23:34 |
| adahms | Morning! | 23:34 |
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| adahms | I am here :) | 23:34 |
| loquacities | morning adahms you made it :) | 23:34 |
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| darrenc | me too | 23:34 |
| loquacities | heya darrenc | 23:35 |
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| Sam-I-Am | howdy | 23:35 |
| loquacities | hiya | 23:35 |
| loquacities | ok, let's get started ... | 23:35 |
| loquacities | #topic Action items from the last meeting | 23:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items from the last meeting (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 23:35 | |
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| loquacities | from the last APAC meeting: loquacities to investigate if an ops guide RST conversion is feasible, and report back to the ops guide team | 23:36 |
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| loquacities | i did so, and we decided to consider this for mitaka instead | 23:36 |
| loquacities | from the last US meeting: | 23:36 |
| loquacities | loquacities to circle back on third-party content | 23:36 |
| loquacities | i'd like to discuss that further today, if we can | 23:37 |
| loquacities | Shilla to e-mail Lana summarizing the solutions for the third-party content | 23:37 |
| loquacities | i don't think i got that email, but it's ok | 23:37 |
| loquacities | and finally: Shilla to find out how spotlight bugs are chose | 23:37 |
| loquacities | i can tell you how that works: basically i sort the bugs by age and pick the oldest ones that aren't owned by anybody | 23:37 |
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| loquacities | if they are owned i try and work out if they're being actively worked on, and if not, they're also in the list | 23:38 |
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| Sam-I-Am | makes sense | 23:38 |
| loquacities | i'm also keeping track of every spotlight bug and its resolution and who closed it | 23:38 |
| loquacities | i'm also chatting to foundation about trying to get some incentives in place to help this along | 23:38 |
| bmoss | swag! | 23:39 |
| furface | swag! | 23:39 |
| darrenc | A virtual pat on the back | 23:39 |
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| loquacities | if you think a particular bug *should* be spotlighted, you can let me know directly, or by adding it to my newsletter content: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/WhatsUpDoc#Your_suggestions_for_content | 23:39 |
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| Sam-I-Am | less organ failure | 23:39 |
| bmoss | "I kill old bugs" t-shirt | 23:39 |
| loquacities | yeah, swag is most likely ;) | 23:39 |
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| loquacities | Sam-I-Am: can't help you with the organ failure, sorry :P | 23:39 |
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| Sam-I-Am | loquacities: the liver is next | 23:40 |
| loquacities | OK, let's look at the specs ... | 23:40 |
| loquacities | Sam-I-Am: haha, i'm surprised it's still working! | 23:40 |
| loquacities | #topic Liberty specs in review #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/docs-specs,n,z | 23:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Liberty specs in review #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/docs-specs,n,z (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 23:40 | |
| Sam-I-Am | loquacities: after this week, i'm not so sure | 23:40 |
| loquacities | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/191077/ (Install Guide Liberty update - WIP) | 23:41 |
| loquacities | this one is marked as WIP until the RST conversion is done | 23:41 |
| loquacities | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/197976/ (Contributor/Style Guide) | 23:41 |
| Sam-I-Am | yep, and probably until we know of any other major changes for liberty | 23:41 |
| loquacities | if you have feels about a separate contributor/style guide in our repo, then make sure you weeigh in on that one | 23:41 |
| loquacities | weigh* | 23:41 |
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| loquacities | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/191041/ (Third Party driver docs - requires discussion) | 23:41 |
| loquacities | this is the one we probably need to chat about | 23:42 |
| loquacities | tbh, i'm *really* against the idea of having third party content in our docs | 23:42 |
| loquacities | especially proprietary third party content | 23:42 |
| * Sam-I-Am was still looking at the last one | 23:42 | |
| loquacities | oh, sorry! | 23:43 |
| Sam-I-Am | now, for 3rd party... | 23:43 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i think we need to chuck 3rd party stuff for the following reasons | 23:44 |
| Sam-I-Am | particularly proprietary/pay stuff | 23:44 |
| loquacities | +1 | 23:44 |
| Sam-I-Am | vendors dump stuff there once and dont maintain it | 23:44 |
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| Sam-I-Am | the docs team already has trouble keeping up with core openstack docimpacts, so we dont need additional ones to worry about | 23:44 |
| Sam-I-Am | and there's no way for us to validate the content | 23:45 |
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| bmoss | +1s to those points | 23:45 |
| Sam-I-Am | like... what happens during release cycles (that may be different than openstack) | 23:45 |
| Sam-I-Am | if you're a company that sells something for openstack, you can spend money on resources for the documentation | 23:45 |
| loquacities | ok, so the spec atm says that vendors can include docs for their driver in the config ref if they agree to maintain it | 23:45 |
| loquacities | i think that's the bit i mostly don't like | 23:45 |
| Sam-I-Am | i'd chuck them all, frankly, but for some reason config reference stuck around | 23:46 |
| loquacities | who would push back if we ditched config ref, do you think? | 23:46 |
| Sam-I-Am | not sure, there's a reason its in there, but we can take it out. | 23:46 |
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| loquacities | i think i would prefer that | 23:47 |
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| Sam-I-Am | at least with neutron, there's some concern about what one considers worthy of documenting within openstack | 23:47 |
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| loquacities | yeah | 23:47 |
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| bmoss | the spec mentions that the original idea was to have only minimal docs for all drivers, but some vendors rejected this as they do not have docs of their own. | 23:47 |
| Sam-I-Am | there's probably 'free open source | 23:48 |
| Sam-I-Am | err | 23:48 |
| Sam-I-Am | there's probably 'free open source' things with happy licensing that dont have a home for docs, but i still dont think that makes us responsible | 23:48 |
| bmoss | not sure who those vendors are | 23:48 |
| Sam-I-Am | its no hard to make a docs thing in github | 23:48 |
| loquacities | i don't mind documenting them if they're open source | 23:48 |
| loquacities | vendors can throw up their own docs, though | 23:48 |
| Sam-I-Am | bmoss: i dont know why vendors wouldnt have their own docs for something they sell | 23:48 |
| loquacities | if they're making money off it, they don't need our charity | 23:49 |
| loquacities | ok, let's move on | 23:49 |
| Sam-I-Am | seems like theyre leveraging free work | 23:49 |
| loquacities | #topic Speciality teams: #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/SpecialityTeams | 23:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Speciality teams: #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/SpecialityTeams (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 23:49 | |
| bmoss | oh, I agree with you both, I was just mentioning what it says in the spec. | 23:49 |
| loquacities | #info HA Guide - RST migration complete, need help with updating content. | 23:49 |
| loquacities | anyone with time to spare, the HA guide team could really use your help | 23:49 |
| loquacities | #info Install Guides - Conversion sprint this week! #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VirtualSprints#Installation_guide_conversion_from_DocBook_to_RST Sign up for conversion here #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/Migrate#Installation_Guide_Migration | 23:50 |
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| loquacities | the sprint is running over 48 hours, so there's plenty of opportunity for APAC people to get involved | 23:50 |
| loquacities | we also have more APAC-timed docs cores now, to try and speed things along | 23:50 |
| Sam-I-Am | and it looks like a lot of work has already been done | 23:50 |
| loquacities | yeah, it should be easy to get involved | 23:51 |
| loquacities | #info Networking Guide - Test & review for Liberty updates. | 23:51 |
| Sam-I-Am | does everyone have the link to the draft docs? | 23:51 |
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| Sam-I-Am | http://docs.openstack.org/draft/draft-index.html | 23:51 |
| Sam-I-Am | thats a good way to see whats missing | 23:51 |
| loquacities | cool, thanks Sam-I-Am | 23:51 |
| Sam-I-Am | rather than picking through patches | 23:51 |
| loquacities | #info Security Guide - RST conversion started, sign up here: #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/sec-guide-rst | 23:51 |
| loquacities | #info User Guides - Cloud Admin Guide RST conversion nearly done! #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/Migrate#Cloud_Admin_Guide_Migration | 23:51 |
| loquacities | #info Ops/Arch Guides - Ops Guide conversion targeted for Mitaka. #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/OpsGuide | 23:52 |
| Sam-I-Am | i have some updates for the networking guide | 23:52 |
| loquacities | ooh, do share | 23:52 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i noticed neutron devs tossing seemingly ops/user docs into their devref repo rather than the networking guide (or other guides) and asked why | 23:53 |
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| Sam-I-Am | the networking guide is rst, so no excuse there | 23:53 |
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| Sam-I-Am | there's still the docs review process, but we're not picky with the networking guide | 23:53 |
| loquacities | what did they say? | 23:53 |
| Sam-I-Am | they seem to agree | 23:53 |
| loquacities | oh, cool | 23:53 |
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| loquacities | hopefully we can get some change there | 23:53 |
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| Sam-I-Am | however, there's potentially a ton of content in the devref repo that needs to be audited and moved/copied/linked to the networking guide | 23:54 |
| Sam-I-Am | some of it is probably defunct too | 23:54 |
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| loquacities | *sigh* | 23:54 |
| loquacities | so we need an audit, then | 23:54 |
| Sam-I-Am | shitty thing is... the devref and wiki come up first in google searches for neutron | 23:54 |
| Sam-I-Am | which i bought up on the list today | 23:54 |
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| loquacities | oh yeah, i saw that | 23:54 |
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| Sam-I-Am | not sure why we can't get our google searches right | 23:54 |
| Sam-I-Am | its been like this for as long as i've been around | 23:54 |
| loquacities | i'm not an SEO expert | 23:54 |
| Sam-I-Am | however, my main concern is the networking guide shows up *nowhere* | 23:54 |
| Sam-I-Am | so unless you go to docs.o.o, you dont find it | 23:55 |
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| loquacities | anne pointed to a patch that's supposed to help | 23:55 |
| Sam-I-Am | instead, you find stuff thats not going to help | 23:55 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah | 23:55 |
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| Sam-I-Am | so, guess who got picked to do the devref audit | 23:55 |
| loquacities | lol | 23:55 |
| loquacities | #info API docs - Spec is now merged! #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/API | 23:56 |
| loquacities | #info Config Ref - New speciality team! Thanks Guavain #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/ConfigRef | 23:56 |
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| loquacities | ok, is that all for speciality teams? | 23:56 |
| loquacities | #topic Doc tools update | 23:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Doc tools update (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 23:56 | |
| loquacities | just FYI really | 23:56 |
| loquacities | #info openstackdocstheme 1.1.0 released: Release notes: #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-announce/2015-June/000392.html | 23:56 |
| loquacities | #info Stable/Icehouse branch is now EOL | 23:57 |
| Sam-I-Am | yay | 23:57 |
| loquacities | indeed :) | 23:57 |
| loquacities | #topic APAC Meetups | 23:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "APAC Meetups (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 23:57 | |
| loquacities | #info Reminder: APAC Docs Swarm on 13-14 August, ping Suyog | 23:57 |
| JRobinson__ | #info re: Speciality Teams - the User Guide cloud admin conversion is almost done | 23:57 |
| loquacities | i'm busy working on getting swag for the swarm, too | 23:57 |
| loquacities | JRobinson__: noted! | 23:57 |
| bmoss | each contributor gets a bee hive | 23:58 |
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| bmoss | ecological swag | 23:58 |
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| loquacities | bmoss: i think you need to work on your swag ideas ... :P | 23:58 |
| Sam-I-Am | bmoss: the hair cut? | 23:58 |
| loquacities | ok, finally, here's our spotlight bugs for this week ... | 23:58 |
| loquacities | #topic Spotlight bugs | 23:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Spotlight bugs (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 23:58 | |
| loquacities | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1241116 Using policies for protected properties | 23:58 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1241116 in openstack-manuals " Using policies for protected properties" [Medium,Triaged] | 23:58 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1241116 in openstack-manuals "Using policies for protected properties" [Medium,Triaged] | 23:58 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1241116 in openstack-manuals "Using policies for protected properties" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1241116 | 23:58 |
| loquacities | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1241179 Add notifications for groups and roles | 23:58 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1241179 in openstack-manuals " Add notifications for groups and roles" [Medium,Confirmed] | 23:58 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1241179 in openstack-manuals "Add notifications for groups and roles" [Medium,Confirmed] | 23:58 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1241179 in openstack-manuals "Add notifications for groups and roles" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1241179 | 23:59 |
| loquacities | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1251060 Xenapi: Allow windows builds with xentools 6.1 and 6.2 | 23:59 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1251060 in openstack-manuals " Xenapi: Allow windows builds with xentools 6.1 and 6.2" [Medium,Triaged] | 23:59 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1251060 in openstack-manuals "Xenapi: Allow windows builds with xentools 6.1 and 6.2" [Medium,Triaged] | 23:59 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1251060 in openstack-manuals "Xenapi: Allow windows builds with xentools 6.1 and 6.2" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1251060 | 23:59 |
| loquacities | the bot is having a moment | 23:59 |
| bmoss | in quadruplicate! | 23:59 |
| loquacities | #topic Open discussion | 23:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 23:59 | |
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| loquacities | anything else, anyone? | 23:59 |
| loquacities | sorry for racing through things so fast: places to go, people to see | 23:59 |
| Sam-I-Am | it is light speed | 23:59 |
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