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| annegentle | sorry lost track of the time! | 14:03 |
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| annegentle | is it DocTeamMeeting I use? | 14:03 |
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| annegentle | nope, DocTeam | 14:03 |
| annegentle | #startmeeting #DocTeam | 14:03 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Wed Mar 26 14:03:55 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is annegentle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: #DocTeam)" | 14:03 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to '_docteam' | 14:04 |
| annegentle | ahhhh | 14:04 |
| annegentle | #endmeeting | 14:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:04 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Mar 26 14:04:08 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:04 |
| Sam-I-Am | lol | 14:04 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/_docteam/2014/_docteam.2014-03-26-14.03.html | 14:04 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/_docteam/2014/_docteam.2014-03-26-14.03.txt | 14:04 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/_docteam/2014/_docteam.2014-03-26-14.03.log.html | 14:04 |
| annegentle | #startmeeting DocTeam | 14:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Mar 26 14:04:16 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is annegentle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: DocTeam)" | 14:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'docteam' | 14:04 |
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| annegentle | ok! | 14:04 |
| Sam-I-Am | yay | 14:04 |
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| annegentle | who is here for the Doc Team meeting? | 14:04 |
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| * Sam-I-Am raises hand (with coffee in it) | 14:04 | |
| annegentle | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/DocTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 14:04 |
| annegentle | Agenda ^^ | 14:04 |
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| annegentle | I don't have much (and we can talk more at the hangout later!) | 14:05 |
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| annegentle | but feel free to add topics | 14:05 |
| annegentle | #topic Action items from the last meeting | 14:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items from the last meeting (Meeting topic: DocTeam)" | 14:05 | |
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| annegentle | ACTION: nickchase talk with annegentle about a cross-project | 14:06 |
| annegentle | proposal for getting docs easier in? | 14:06 |
| annegentle | I haven't talked with Nick on that one | 14:06 |
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| annegentle | ACTION: nickchase to talk with annegentle about getting the blueprint approved and how to use it | 14:06 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i think thats done | 14:06 |
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| annegentle | Not sure on that one either, something about https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/GitCommitMessages#Including_external_references | 14:07 |
| annegentle | ACTION: Sam-I-Am to update the work items in the blueprint | 14:07 |
| annegentle | which blueprint? | 14:07 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i think we're ok there... i figured out how to update the blueprint in the commit message | 14:07 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: the install guide one | 14:07 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: ok, yep, that's done | 14:07 |
| annegentle | (well the action item is) | 14:07 |
| Sam-I-Am | lol | 14:08 |
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| annegentle | Oh just read the log more closely, I agree with Nick/sgordon that a knowledge base would fit the bill. I'd like to experiment with a non-CLA authoring system | 14:09 |
| annegentle | especially for user docs | 14:09 |
| annegentle | but yes we still need our "guides" deliverables | 14:10 |
| annegentle | Someone propose a summit topic! | 14:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | should nick propose that? | 14:10 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: yep | 14:10 |
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| annegentle | #action NickChase please propose a summit topic on a nonCLA authoring system | 14:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | he's usually on this meeting... | 14:11 |
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| annegentle | Okay, this one is done: | 14:11 |
| annegentle | ACTION: Sam-I-Am propose 21:00 UTC on 2014-03-19 for Google Hangout on mailing list | 14:11 |
| annegentle | And then the last one, ACTION: propose talks at http://summit.openstack.org | 14:12 |
| annegentle | is in progress | 14:12 |
| annegentle | which is a nice transition to | 14:12 |
| annegentle | #topic Design Summit proposal system now open, doc slots Wed-Fri. morning | 14:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Design Summit proposal system now open, doc slots Wed-Fri. morning (Meeting topic: DocTeam)" | 14:12 | |
| annegentle | Thierry updated the schedule, we have four slots | 14:12 |
| annegentle | Though I would like us to use a crossproject slot to discuss blueprints, dev authoring, etc | 14:12 |
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| Sam-I-Am | maybe i should talk about a crash course in learning how to patch things :) | 14:13 |
| annegentle | I can propose it if you don't know if Nick is buried | 14:13 |
| annegentle | heh | 14:13 |
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| annegentle | The last doc topic is 11:40 - 12:20 Friday morning | 14:14 |
| annegentle | The first doc topic is 9:00 - 9:40 Wed. morning. Those are tentative since it could still change | 14:14 |
| annegentle | Our proposal for the business side was not accepted but I repurposed it for a blog post | 14:14 |
| Sam-I-Am | business side? | 14:14 |
| annegentle | #link http://justwriteclick.com/2014/03/21/how-to-build-openstack-docs-and-contributors-through-community/ | 14:15 |
| annegentle | oh it's what I call the non-Design Summit | 14:15 |
| annegentle | dunno what else to call it | 14:15 |
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| ttx | annegentle: also note the slots are sprinkled over the 4 days to make sure every project can attend some of those. | 14:15 |
| annegentle | yes! | 14:15 |
| ttx | rqther than being in block at the beginning | 14:15 |
| annegentle | I like the schedule ttx | 14:15 |
| annegentle | I wonder though if operators won't be around Friday? | 14:16 |
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| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: i like that blog post | 14:16 |
| annegentle | need them in docs sessions if we can | 14:16 |
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| annegentle | also note | 14:17 |
| annegentle | #topic Summit schedule now posted to http://openstacksummitmay2014atlanta.sched.org/ | 14:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit schedule now posted to http://openstacksummitmay2014atlanta.sched.org/ (Meeting topic: DocTeam)" | 14:17 | |
| annegentle | #link http://openstacksummitmay2014atlanta.sched.org/ | 14:17 |
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| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: I guess it's the Summit and the Design Summit | 14:17 |
| annegentle | not much more to say there! | 14:17 |
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| annegentle | #topic Installation guide updates for Icehouse | 14:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Installation guide updates for Icehouse (Meeting topic: DocTeam)" | 14:18 | |
| annegentle | Got anything to report Sam-I-Am? | 14:18 |
| Sam-I-Am | yep... | 14:18 |
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| annegentle | floor is yours! | 14:18 |
| Sam-I-Am | the project is progressing nicely, minus the actual ml2 instructions because the rdo neutron packages still dont work | 14:18 |
| Sam-I-Am | in the meantime i'm working on plenty of ancillary patches to clean up the install guide | 14:19 |
| Sam-I-Am | never a shortage of work! | 14:19 |
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| Sam-I-Am | next patches will move 'launch an instance' and clarify the 'basic os config' chapter | 14:20 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: I should have some Object Storage edits ready soon | 14:20 |
| Sam-I-Am | and at that point... i'll be done except for the ml2 specifics | 14:20 |
| annegentle | NICE | 14:20 |
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| annegentle | I wanted to do a call for help on ceilometer testing and heat testing | 14:20 |
| annegentle | I think trove is being covered | 14:20 |
| annegentle | #help test the ceilometer instructions in Install Guide master branch | 14:20 |
| Sam-I-Am | then we get to see what RC1 does... and the final release. unfortunately we can't update the docs for ubuntu 14.04 or rhel 7 until those are released :/ | 14:20 |
| annegentle | #help test the heat instructions in Install Guide master branch | 14:20 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: what's the date for 14.04? | 14:21 |
| Sam-I-Am | we need cinder/swift/heat/ceilometer/horizon testing | 14:21 |
| Sam-I-Am | i still havent been back to horizon after the mess a few weeks ago. | 14:21 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: right around when icehouse releases | 14:21 |
| Sam-I-Am | there are no packages for 14.04 yet | 14:21 |
| annegentle | ttx: do you know the release date for 14.04? | 14:22 |
| Sam-I-Am | everyone is building against 12.04 | 14:22 |
| annegentle | okay | 14:22 |
| ttx | annegentle: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule | 14:22 |
| annegentle | I think we'll release on April 17th by cutting a stable/icehouse branch | 14:22 |
| ttx | April 17th | 14:22 |
| annegentle | and then backport | 14:22 |
| Sam-I-Am | i suspect the actual openstack instructions won't change, but the base OS configuration and package names may change | 14:22 |
| annegentle | ttx: perfect, thanks | 14:22 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: okay, let's hope it's minimal | 14:22 |
| Sam-I-Am | i'm not sure why openstack is aligned to a major ubuntu release | 14:23 |
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| Sam-I-Am | it makes documentation really difficult | 14:23 |
| Sam-I-Am | and testing | 14:23 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: best way to get into LTS | 14:23 |
| annegentle | as far as I understand it | 14:23 |
| annegentle | perhaps only way | 14:23 |
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| annegentle | any questions? | 14:23 |
| Sam-I-Am | hmm :/ i wish we had access to testing icehouse on 14.04 somewhere | 14:23 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i guess this only comes around every 2 years, but i think we should try to get a foot in the door for... 16.04? | 14:24 |
| annegentle | yeah! | 14:24 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: not sure how to get early access | 14:25 |
| annegentle | #topic Preparation for release - freeze on 1.15.0 in pom.xml files | 14:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Preparation for release - freeze on 1.15.0 in pom.xml files (Meeting topic: DocTeam)" | 14:25 | |
| annegentle | Okay I was thinking of what we need to do to prep for release | 14:25 |
| annegentle | Config Ref and Install Guides are "released" to a stable/icehouse branch | 14:25 |
| annegentle | and we make a new sitemap.xml | 14:25 |
| Sam-I-Am | yup... | 14:25 |
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| annegentle | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/Release | 14:26 |
| annegentle | that's where it's documented | 14:26 |
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| sld | Thanks for that. (Oftentimes I wonder how many links you have handy at any given point in time. ;-) ) | 14:26 |
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| annegentle | Summer had asked about cross linking, do you go to /trunk? The answer is yes, you have to, then in the final stable branch cut, you have to go through the repo and change the links from /trunk to /icehouse when referring to install and config | 14:27 |
| Sam-I-Am | its the annepedia | 14:27 |
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| annegentle | heh sld | 14:27 |
| annegentle | :) | 14:27 |
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| annegentle | also wanted to let everyone know we'll standardize on 1.15.0 for the Icehouse builds | 14:28 |
| annegentle | No more updates to our use of the maven plugin unless it's absolutely necessary | 14:28 |
| Sam-I-Am | woohoo | 14:29 |
| Ajaeger1 | ;( | 14:29 |
| annegentle | Oh, that reminds me did anyone have comments on my post about 1.15.0? | 14:29 |
| annegentle | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2014-March/004164.html | 14:29 |
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| Sam-I-Am | no questions from me (yet) | 14:30 |
| Ajaeger1 | No preference... | 14:30 |
| sld | Nope. ..just read it.. all good. | 14:30 |
| annegentle | okie | 14:31 |
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| annegentle | #topic Google Hangout today | 14:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Google Hangout today (Meeting topic: DocTeam)" | 14:31 | |
| annegentle | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/DocTeamMeeting#Google_Hangout_for_Docs | 14:31 |
| annegentle | Feel free to add to that agenda! | 14:31 |
| annegentle | I'm looking forward to it! | 14:31 |
| Sam-I-Am | yes! | 14:31 |
| Sam-I-Am | hopefully we can make live mode work | 14:31 |
| sld | when is that? | 14:31 |
| sld | (i'm not good at time conversion.) | 14:32 |
| Sam-I-Am | today, at... 4 pm ct | 14:32 |
| sld | ah, ok. | 14:32 |
| sld | if I'm awake, I'll try and make it. :) | 14:32 |
| Sam-I-Am | lol | 14:33 |
| annegentle | hee | 14:33 |
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| Sam-I-Am | well, thats awesome... the carpet installers rescheduled for... right during our meeting. | 14:33 |
| Sam-I-Am | they were supposed to be here now | 14:33 |
| annegentle | Okay! | 14:33 |
| Sam-I-Am | so.. it could be exciting. | 14:33 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: aw man | 14:33 |
| annegentle | #topic Open disussion | 14:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open disussion (Meeting topic: DocTeam)" | 14:33 | |
| Sam-I-Am | disussion... | 14:34 |
| Sam-I-Am | -1 spelling error | 14:34 |
| Sam-I-Am | nothing else new here. i'm working with a bunch of redhat folks to resolve the neutron issues... never a lack of helpful people. | 14:35 |
| Sam-I-Am | rrreeally looking forward to the summit | 14:35 |
| annegentle | #topic Open discussion | 14:35 |
| annegentle | lol | 14:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: DocTeam)" | 14:35 | |
| annegentle | that's good Sam-I-Am! | 14:35 |
| annegentle | I would like to hear back from the training guides team, sarob or colin | 14:36 |
| annegentle | on your query to the list... I'll write back today though | 14:36 |
| Sam-I-Am | did you post to the ml? i didnt see anything. | 14:36 |
| Sam-I-Am | ok... | 14:36 |
| annegentle | not yet yeah | 14:37 |
| annegentle | okay, take back your day! | 14:37 |
| annegentle | if there's nothing else. | 14:37 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: at some point i'll try to put together a ref guide for diagrams | 14:37 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: at least i would like to | 14:37 |
| Sam-I-Am | i just can't get to it right now :/ | 14:37 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: great idea, we had a section in the HowTo wiki page | 14:37 |
| sld | that would be cool. | 14:37 |
| Sam-I-Am | its interesting to explain pictures with text | 14:38 |
| Sam-I-Am | a picture is worth a 1000 words? | 14:38 |
| sld | or more sometimes. ;) | 14:38 |
| Sam-I-Am | i'll probably post a "sample" SVG where people can just suck attributes out of it | 14:38 |
| Sam-I-Am | colors, shapes, line thickness, font, etc. | 14:38 |
| Sam-I-Am | kind of a template of sorts? | 14:39 |
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| annegentle | yes | 14:39 |
| annegentle | that would be great! | 14:39 |
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| Sam-I-Am | cool... we definitely need it | 14:39 |
| annegentle | attach it to the wiki page | 14:39 |
| Ajaeger1 | Sam-I-Am: Great, go for it! | 14:39 |
| annegentle | I get asked for arch diagrams all the time | 14:39 |
| Sam-I-Am | i'm also not sure how we review this sort of stuff | 14:39 |
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| Ajaeger1 | To the wiki page - or find a place in the git repo | 14:39 |
| Sam-I-Am | and my ideas need reviewing :P | 14:39 |
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| sld | I can look it over when you are done? | 14:40 |
| sld | Sam-I-Am: I'll do that as time permits, myself. | 14:40 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: generally post to the ML then update the wiki (sound right?) | 14:40 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: that works | 14:40 |
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| annegentle | ok cool | 14:40 |
| Sam-I-Am | i need something where i can get a pile of -1's :) | 14:40 |
| sld | Sam-I-Am: I'm referring to reviewing your stuff, myself. ;-) | 14:40 |
| annegentle | pick it up in #openstack-doc if there's anything else! | 14:40 |
| sld | lol | 14:40 |
| annegentle | #endmeeting | 14:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:40 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Mar 26 14:40:45 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:40 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2014/docteam.2014-03-26-14.04.html | 14:40 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2014/docteam.2014-03-26-14.04.txt | 14:40 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2014/docteam.2014-03-26-14.04.log.html | 14:40 |
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| Sam-I-Am | bye! | 14:40 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | #startmeeting XenAPI | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Mar 26 15:01:46 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is johnthetubaguy1. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi' | 15:01 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | hello | 15:01 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | who is around for the meeting today? | 15:01 |
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| sandywalsh | o/ | 15:02 |
| sandywalsh | :) | 15:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | I should ping bob... | 15:02 |
| sandywalsh | yep | 15:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | so, no sign of him right now | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | anything to raise today? | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | I just planned to checkup on the CI | 15:04 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | also, wondering if we had a XenAPI session at the summit, if people would have any topics right now | 15:04 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | I need to think hard on the topics, but don't have anything major right now, that warrants a whole session | 15:05 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | OK, so lets call it a day then... | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | #endmeeting | 15:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:08 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Mar 26 15:08:13 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:08 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2014/xenapi.2014-03-26-15.01.html | 15:08 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2014/xenapi.2014-03-26-15.01.txt | 15:08 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2014/xenapi.2014-03-26-15.01.log.html | 15:08 |
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| jgriffith | cinder? | 16:00 |
| thingee | yes | 16:00 |
| jgriffith | #startmeeting cinder | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Mar 26 16:00:41 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:00 |
| thingee | o/ | 16:00 |
| ameade | o/ | 16:00 |
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| bill_az_ | bill here, standing in for jungleboy | 16:01 |
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| jgriffith | hemna_: | 16:01 |
| avishay | hi | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | No winston yet, but he was in #cinder so maybe he'll be along shortly | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | avishay: morning/evening | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: paging Duncan, paging DuncanT | 16:02 |
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| jgriffith | :) | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | alright, let's make this quick | 16:02 |
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| jgriffith | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | #topic RC1 status | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RC1 status (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:03 | |
| jgriffith | #link https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/icehouse-rc1 | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | We have one item left | 16:03 |
| * ttx lurks | 16:03 | |
| jgriffith | https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1188189 | 16:04 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1188189 in cinder "Some server-side 'SSL' communication fails to check certificates (use of HTTPSConnection)" [High,In progress] | 16:04 |
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| jgriffith | This may be bigger than we want to tackle right now, I wouldn't say that everything is covered in what's proposed | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | but it's a good chunk | 16:04 |
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| ttx | jgriffith: also make sure you push https://review.openstack.org/#/c/80817/ in | 16:04 |
| ttx | (recent translations) | 16:05 |
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| thingee | jgriffith: have you heard from daniel? | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | ttx: done | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | thingee: I have not | 16:05 |
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| avishay | jgriffith: this involved solidfire and one other driver, right? anything else? | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | thingee: and I have some concerns | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | I know in my testing this broke upgrades | 16:05 |
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| jgriffith | Sadly it turns out self-signed certs won't work here for upgrades | 16:06 |
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| jgriffith | don't know who else uses them | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | but I wanted to make sure everybody affected had a close look | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | and it may not be something we want to merge at this point | 16:06 |
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| jgriffith | ttx: done | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | Did anybody else look at this (this == ssl patch)? | 16:07 |
| avishay | jgriffith: 2 patches right, for solidfire and zadara? | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | avishay: yeah | 16:07 |
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| winston-d | o/ | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I guess I know the answer to the question about Zadara :( | 16:07 |
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| jgriffith | So my proposal here is I'll up date the lib and set the flag to not check the cert | 16:08 |
| avishay | jgriffith: i was waiting for a +1/2 from the respective maintainers :) | 16:08 |
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| jgriffith | it doesn't really "fix" the identified issue, but at least it updates to use request lib | 16:08 |
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| jgriffith | I'll try and track down Zadara, but they've been MIA since last summer | 16:08 |
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| jgriffith | vlad has moved on I think :) | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | anybody object to me landing that today? | 16:09 |
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| * jgriffith doubts anybody cares | 16:09 | |
| * avishay doesn't care | 16:09 | |
| jgriffith | ok... I'll post a patch later today and push it through | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | FYI we're planning to cut RC1 in the morning (my morning) tomorrow | 16:10 |
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| jgriffith | At this point I don't consider driver bugs to be blockers for RC | 16:10 |
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| jgriffith | use your judgement in reviews today | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | no features disguised as bugs | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | no huge patches | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | etc etc | 16:10 |
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| jgriffith | use the same guidelins we use for backports, perhaps even a bit stricter | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | good enough? | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | any questions, concerns, items they feel MUST be in? | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | going once... | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | going twice... | 16:11 |
| vbala | jgriffith: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81517/ | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | Gone!! | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | BAH | 16:12 |
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| avishay | so close :) | 16:12 |
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| winston-d_ | :) | 16:12 |
| vbala | :) | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | vbala: I have to say all of the last minute patches for vmware are very tiring | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | vbala: that being said no problems with this one | 16:12 |
| vbala | sorry for that | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | You've got plenty of reviews | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | vbala: no problem, that's how it goes | 16:13 |
| vbala | ok :) | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | vbala: I'm just voicing my concern :) | 16:13 |
| hartsocks | my apologies on that mark. | 16:13 |
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| jgriffith | vbala: I'll have a look at your patch after the meeting and likely merge it | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | vbala: you be around on IRC incase there's an issue? | 16:13 |
| vbala | jgriffith: thanks | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | np | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | ok... anybody else? | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | Gone | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | #topic design summit sessions | 16:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "design summit sessions (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:14 | |
| jgriffith | #link http://summit.openstack.org/ | 16:14 |
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| jgriffith | Surely people don't want to leave all the topics to me :) | 16:15 |
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| rushiagr | hello folks! sorry, late | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | I know we've all been really busy, but hopefully after tomorrow we can shift gears abit | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | I'd like to see some proposals start filtering in after tomorrow | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | If you have something in mind let me know, or get it posted | 16:16 |
| avishay | 0 proposals? | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | I'll be going through old BP's and talks we've had in the past and putting some topics together tonight | 16:16 |
| rushiagr | is this regarding design summit sessions? | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: yes | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | http://summit.openstack.org/ | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | avishay: yeah.. .ZERO. | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | weird for this bunch eh? | 16:16 |
| avishay | i know there is interest in a follow-up to replication | 16:16 |
| avishay | very | 16:16 |
| thingee | jgriffith: thought this was the plan | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | avishay: haha... that goes without saying | 16:16 |
| rushiagr | I have some desire to implement AWS style filtering in APIs, if Cinder people like the idea | 16:17 |
| xyang1 | avishay: we can add a topic on adding consistency groups support? | 16:17 |
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| thingee | jgriffith: as a result, we can just focus on stability! | 16:17 |
| avishay | xyang1: if you plan on implementing it :) | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: submit it, but fair warning I have strong opinions based on your last BP | 16:17 |
| ameade | any thoughts around breaking out the brick library? | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | thingee: :) | 16:17 |
| rushiagr | jgriffith: any feedback is good feedback for me :) | 16:17 |
| winston-d | didn't we agree to have no design sessions and have bbq instead? | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | ameade: yes, there will be a session by me to better describe that and actually make it happen | 16:18 |
| xyang1 | avishay: sure, I'll try:) | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | ameade: need some coordination with gantt | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | etc | 16:18 |
| thingee | yes there will be bbq instead of sessions. | 16:18 |
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| ameade | jgriffith: sweet, okay | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | mmmmmm bbq | 16:18 |
| thingee | bbq sessions | 16:18 |
| xyang1 | avishay: but I think we haven't decided whether it sould be at volume level yet | 16:18 |
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| winston-d | i have some idea, but i need to talk to vendors first | 16:18 |
| avishay | xyang1: fight it out at the summit, looks like i'm skipping this one :) | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | xyang1: it should :) | 16:18 |
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| jgriffith | cage match | 16:19 |
| rushiagr | jgriffith: by last bp you mean regarding EC2 APIs right? | 16:19 |
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| jgriffith | rushiagr: correct | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: regardless, it's good summit topic IMO | 16:19 |
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| xyang1 | jgriffith, avishay: I'll suggest a topic on that | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | xyang1: thanks | 16:19 |
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| rushiagr | jgriffith: I'd love to hear your opinions. I'm all in for the best way forward for Cinder and OpenStack | 16:19 |
| avishay | i don't think it makes sense to have consistency groups in juno...do basic replication first...of course plan replication to allow for consistency groups | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | I'd also like to get with bswartz and talk about Cinder versus Manilla | 16:20 |
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| jgriffith | we should have a better plan there and be working together | 16:20 |
| rushiagr | jgriffith: cool, I'll think over it and submit it up | 16:20 |
| xyang1 | avishay: I thought it didn't make it into icehouse because it operates at volume level? | 16:20 |
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| avishay | xyang1: that's not why :) | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | xyang1: no | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | xyang1: some people had concerns about that | 16:21 |
| xyang1 | avishay: did bswartz say it only works at container (group) level for netapp? | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | xyang1: avishay regardless save it for later IMO | 16:21 |
| akerr | xyang1: yes, our replication is at the container level | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | avishay: oh noooos... you may not be there you said? | 16:21 |
| avishay | jgriffith: correct, but i think ronenkat should be there who is taking over that bit at IBM | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | so history here for those that don't know; netapp and Gluster I believe can't do replication at volume level (maybe others) | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | eharney: if I'm wrong about Gluster throw a shoe at me | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | so there may be others... the problem then is that we end up with this weird API | 16:22 |
| * winston-d_ hands a stone to eharney just in case. | 16:22 | |
| avishay | jgriffith: to be specific, they can't do failover/failback at the volume level, only at the "container" level | 16:22 |
| eharney | correct, Gluster currently can replicate N Cinder volumes as a chunk | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | some do groups, some do volumes etc | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | so that's what we need to brainstorm on | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | how do we satisfy the different variants without an ugly API | 16:23 |
| avishay | so with netapp they could only have ~500 replicated volumes if i remember correctly (500 containers), and glusterfs i think 1 :) | 16:23 |
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| jgriffith | might mean it's by extension only, or something else | 16:23 |
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| jgriffith | or just stepping back and thinking about how to abstract all of the deltas | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | avishay: yeah, it's like whack-a-mole... solve one problem another pops up :) | 16:24 |
| avishay | i'm just worried about the scalability issues when people add SAN drivers to manilla :) | 16:24 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: context? | 16:24 |
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| avishay | jgriffith: being a smartass | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | avishay: ohh, the "default" context :) | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | avishay: you know that's the first thing I'm going to do to get my revenge right? | 16:25 |
| avishay | jgriffith: just like block storage management doesn't really fit well with file systems | 16:25 |
| * jgriffith ports all Cinder drivers to Manilla | 16:25 | |
| avishay | jgriffith: :) | 16:25 |
| avishay | each file is a volume | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | nice! | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | Ok... we digress | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | some things I've got on my list: | 16:26 |
| avishay | then limit all filesystems in manilla to have a limited number of files because controller X support only that many | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | 1. Replication | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | 2. Brick | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | 3. Multi-Attach | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | 4. LIO as default target | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | 5. HA LVM | 16:26 |
| avishay | ok i'm done being a smartass for now | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | other things I've been thinking about: taskflow | 16:27 |
| avishay | what's HA LVM? | 16:27 |
| winston-d | We are looing for a way to collect per volume basis usage statistics from all Cinder back-ends. | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I would really like to implement an HA solution for the ref LVM driver | 16:27 |
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| thingee | harlowja_away: ^ | 16:27 |
| winston-d | And we have multiple back-ends from different vendors. | 16:27 |
| avishay | jgriffith: so HA for cinder-volume? | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: OHHH!! Don't let me forget that! Make sure you submit it | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | avishay: well for the driver | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | since most backends will have their own setup/impl | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | just something to make LVM even better :) | 16:28 |
| avishay | jgriffith: i.e., necessary modifications to the driver to allow cinder-volume to run active/passive? or active/active? | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: also the auto-detect idea | 16:28 |
| akerr | jgriffith: Maybe I'm the only one still not 100% clear on expectations or timelines, but would a topic around certification process (vendor CI systems) be useful? | 16:28 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: sure. | 16:29 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: I'm talking strictly LVM and to start A/P most likely | 16:29 |
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| jgriffith | A/A depending on how it goes | 16:29 |
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| jgriffith | akerr: yes, that's a required topic for sure | 16:29 |
| winston-d | jgriffith, bswartz you guys also want to talk about one driver from multiple back-ends? | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | akerr: that whole things is getting ugly IMO | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | Too many cooks in the kitche | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | n | 16:30 |
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| zhiyan | thingee: hi, may i know does cinder extension stuff still on the table? which we talked in last summit? | 16:30 |
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| jgriffith | Ok, we've obviously all got more ideas than we have slots so let's get them written up :) | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | #topic open-discussion | 16:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open-discussion (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:31 | |
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| jgriffith | anybody have any thoughts on anything? | 16:31 |
| bswartz | winston-d, jgriffith: yeah we'll definitely talk about that | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | OHHH | 16:31 |
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| jgriffith | I have some other things: | 16:31 |
| bswartz | sorry I missed the first 30 minutes of this meeting I had a conflict | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | At yesterdays TC meeting we did an analysis on the gaps that Cinder has | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | ie gaps regarding what we require for new projects | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | There were two big things: | 16:32 |
| thingee | zhiyan: I've mentioned in the past the work around that does not block extensions | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | 1. Charter/Mission statement | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | 2. Security team | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | Item 1 I can take care of pretty easy myself | 16:32 |
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| jgriffith | Item 2 is something I'll need help/volunteers on | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | The idea of a security team is a person/people that are focused on security related issues for Cinder | 16:33 |
| winston-d | What does security team usually do? | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | They don't have to "fix" everything, but the idea is that they keep an eye on security related things | 16:33 |
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| jgriffith | would need to have good knowledge of security issues in the cloud | 16:34 |
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| jgriffith | and how to keep things safe in the code | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | They would be sort of a first point of contact/triage | 16:34 |
| avishay | also need to check IDs at the entrance to cinder summit sessions | 16:34 |
| bswartz | does the security team get guns to shoot people? | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | I'm admittedly not a great security person so I'm looking for help here | 16:34 |
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| jgriffith | it may come from this team or from the broader OpenStack community | 16:34 |
| akerr | bswartz: only tasers | 16:35 |
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| jgriffith | but if anybody here digs security and thinking in a paranoid manner let me know :) | 16:35 |
| avishay | jgriffith: not my strong point | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: yes, but only squirt guns | 16:35 |
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| xyang1 | does other project already have security team? Maybe we can share with them? | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | avishay: yeah... me neither :( | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | xyang1: yes and yes | 16:35 |
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| jgriffith | I just wanted to throw it out to keep everybdoy in the loop | 16:36 |
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| jgriffith | Ok... anybody else have anything? | 16:36 |
| winston-d | I can volunteer for the security team stuff. | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: awesome! | 16:36 |
| ameade | besides saying "review all my patches" i got nothing lol | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | ameade: haha | 16:37 |
| winston-d | we may have special needs for security for payment use case and stuff. | 16:37 |
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| jgriffith | winston-d: ahh... yes, you'd have a special interest | 16:38 |
| hemna | hey guys | 16:38 |
| ameade | I do wanna say that you guys have been pretty quick with doing reviews and I appreciate that | 16:38 |
| hemna | sorry was in a preso the last hour.... | 16:38 |
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| hemna | so for multi attach | 16:39 |
| hemna | I've actually been working on it this week | 16:40 |
| hemna | I have the BP assigned to me now and will submit it in Juno J2 at the latest | 16:40 |
| winston-d | hemna: making good progress already? | 16:40 |
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| hemna | winston-d, yah | 16:40 |
| hemna | It's going to require changes in nova, cinderclient, cinder to work | 16:41 |
| bswartz | hemna: are you building on zhiyan's work? | 16:41 |
| hemna | I think I'm close to getting it working | 16:41 |
| hemna | bswartz, yah I took what he had and am running with it. | 16:41 |
| bswartz | okay good | 16:41 |
| hemna | his code lacked a lot of needed changes to work | 16:41 |
| hemna | The BP itself talks about this idea of setting a volume as shareable or not | 16:42 |
| hemna | I'm not working on that piece for now | 16:42 |
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| hemna | wasn't sure if we wanted that or not | 16:42 |
| bswartz | I think the hardest part of multiattach will be the database schema changes needed, and the upgrade procedure around those | 16:42 |
| hemna | so I'm assuming all volumes at this point are multi attach candidates. | 16:42 |
| kmartin | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/blueprints/multi-attach-volume | 16:42 |
| hemna | bswartz, yah I think I have that part working already | 16:42 |
| bswartz | hemna: nice | 16:43 |
| hemna | I don't have the downgrade done yet, I'll do that after I finalize the schema | 16:43 |
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| hemna | so many changes in so many pieces, we'll have to coordinate the patches landing | 16:43 |
| bswartz | hemna: is your work available as a WIP? | 16:43 |
| hemna | cinder api v1/v2 changes, cinderclient, etc | 16:44 |
| hemna | bswartz, not yet | 16:44 |
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| zhiyan | hemna: thanks for working on this | 16:44 |
| hemna | I wanted to try and get WIP patches up prior to Atlanta | 16:44 |
| zhiyan | hemna: and is there a review link can share with us? | 16:45 |
| hemna | zhiyan, yw :) I'm very interested in it, and figured I should pick it up | 16:45 |
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| hemna | zhiyan, not yet | 16:45 |
| hemna | I'll try and get some WIP reviews up prior to the Atlanta dev conf. | 16:45 |
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| hemna | I think it's getting close to working now as it is......but...no unit test changes yet :P | 16:45 |
| bswartz | hemna: netapp has interest in that feature too so feel free to ask for help or bother us for reviews | 16:45 |
| hemna | the unit tests will probably harder than the code changes itself. | 16:46 |
| hemna | bswartz, ok coolio. will do. | 16:46 |
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| akerr | hemna: ice cream can grease the review wheels | 16:46 |
| hemna | I've not touched these parts of cinder before, so it's all been a great learning experience so far | 16:46 |
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| jgriffith | Ok...anything else? | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | that's a wrap... | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | #endmeeting | 16:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:49 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Mar 26 16:49:03 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:49 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2014/cinder.2014-03-26-16.00.html | 16:49 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2014/cinder.2014-03-26-16.00.txt | 16:49 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2014/cinder.2014-03-26-16.00.log.html | 16:49 |
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| jgriffith | thanks everybody! | 16:49 |
| rushiagr | o/ | 16:49 |
| winston-d_ | thanks! | 16:49 |
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| ameade | see ya | 16:49 |
| vbala | thanks :) | 16:49 |
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| hartsocks | 1 seck | 17:01 |
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| hartsocks | #startmeeting vmwareapi | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Mar 26 17:01:55 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hartsocks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi' | 17:01 |
| hartsocks | Greetings! As new thing… I'd like folks to introduce themselves and state what they are actively working on right now… | 17:02 |
| hartsocks | I'm Shawn Hartsock and I'm currently coordinating https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bp/vmware-spawn-refactor,n,z with several other developers. | 17:02 |
| mdbooth | mdbooth: Red Hat, currently flitting about | 17:03 |
| browne | hi. Eric from VMware. Working on bugs | 17:03 |
| jay-lau-513 | harksocks: Jay Lau, I want to discuss something related to vmware live migration on esx server level even with one nova compute, I'm from IBM | 17:03 |
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| tjones1 | tjones working on backports and bug coordination | 17:03 |
| sabari | Hey All | 17:03 |
| vincent_hou | Vincent Hou from IBM. | 17:03 |
| rgerganov | I am Rado Gerganov, I am currently working on bugs and refactoring | 17:03 |
| vincent_hou | Working on resource pool support. | 17:04 |
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| hartsocks | garyk: ping? | 17:06 |
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| garyk | hartsocks: i am on a call - i'll join when i am done | 17:06 |
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| jay-lau-513 | do we have plan talk about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/vmware-auto-inventory ? This can help bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1192192 which is related to live migration | 17:07 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1192192 in nova "Nova initiated Live Migration regression for vmware VCDriver" [Medium,Confirmed] | 17:07 |
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| hartsocks | jay-lau-513: I think we can start to address some of this this week. | 17:07 |
| hartsocks | jay-lau-513: at least in discussion... | 17:07 |
| sabari | jay-lau-513: I missed getting back to you last week, sorry about that. | 17:07 |
| jay-lau-513 | harksocks: great | 17:07 |
| vuil | Vui from VMware, working on bugs, refactoring, vSAN/ova goodness | 17:07 |
| jay-lau-513 | sabari: no problem. I append some of my ideas on the bug 1192192 | 17:08 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1192192 in nova "Nova initiated Live Migration regression for vmware VCDriver" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192192 | 17:08 |
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| hartsocks | #topic agenda | 17:08 |
| sabari | jay-lau-513: I am taking a look. | 17:08 |
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| hartsocks | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/VMwareAPI#Agenda | 17:08 |
| jay-lau-513 | sabari: ok | 17:08 |
| hartsocks | Typically we discuss in-flight blueprints and then bugs and then open discussion. | 17:09 |
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| sabari | Yes, live-migration has the same issue as cold-migration as the node information is not passed to the virt layer | 17:09 |
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| sabari | I proposed a patch for cold-migration, I agree that we should do something similar for live-mig. | 17:10 |
| hartsocks | Because icehouse is effectively closed for blueprints, it's time to start discussing Juno plans. | 17:10 |
| sabari | oh okay sorry about that. I will speak up when it's time for bugs | 17:10 |
| * hartsocks waits for channel to clear | 17:10 | |
| sabari | *cleared* | 17:10 |
| hartsocks | :-) | 17:10 |
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| jay-lau-513 | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/vmware-auto-inventory , any plan for this one? | 17:11 |
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| hartsocks | A few months ago mdbooth posted this http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-February/028077.html it's an analysis of patches in flight and our driver sits at 24% in flight. | 17:11 |
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| hartsocks | jay-lau-513: I will get to that. | 17:11 |
| jay-lau-513 | ok | 17:11 |
| hartsocks | I think garyk is one of the only developers from this group that has successfully merged blueprints. The rest of us have not had success. | 17:12 |
| tjones1 | :-( | 17:12 |
| hartsocks | I think we can all learn from garyk's example. | 17:12 |
| hartsocks | I know a saying… | 17:12 |
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| hartsocks | "a fool learns from experience, a wise man learns from history" and I have plenty experience with both. | 17:13 |
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| hartsocks | I would like us as a group to learn from garyk's example. In particular, I would like to call out... | 17:13 |
| garyk | n boer maak n plan - afrikaans - for a farmer will always make a plan | 17:13 |
| hartsocks | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/56416/ | 17:13 |
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| hartsocks | jay-lau-513 … this is part of getting to things. | 17:14 |
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| hartsocks | That patch was in flight from November 14th through March 12th. | 17:14 |
| hartsocks | I'm to understand garyk worked day and night on that patch. And I'm sure he worked at great personal sacrifice. | 17:14 |
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| hartsocks | There are 73 revisions on that patch. | 17:15 |
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| hartsocks | There appear to be as many as 3 or 4 revisions *per day* | 17:15 |
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| garyk | hartsocks: i am not sure that i understand the point here. | 17:16 |
| hartsocks | I'm hoping garyk is available to share some of his experiences on this work… but primarily… | 17:16 |
| garyk | originally the BP was blocked because it was not generic - | 17:16 |
| hartsocks | I hope that neither garyk nor any of the rest of us have to work that hard again. | 17:16 |
| hartsocks | garyk: go on. | 17:16 |
| garyk | rebascing here was around 30 iterations | 17:16 |
| garyk | basically the fact that we got review cycles late in the game was a cause of problem. | 17:17 |
| garyk | and the fact that i am a bad programmer :) | 17:17 |
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| garyk | sorry for interrupting. please continue | 17:17 |
| hartsocks | garyk: I would never say that. | 17:18 |
| tjones1 | garyk - hardly! | 17:18 |
| hartsocks | garyk: no, I actually was summarizing while you were on a call. | 17:18 |
| garyk | in hebrew they call me - nezek (damage) | 17:18 |
| hartsocks | garyk: I wanted to highlight your effort. And give you a chance to voice/complain about how that went so we could all learn from it. | 17:18 |
| garyk | thank you | 17:19 |
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| hartsocks | garyk: no matter what other nazek I can't argue that by any measure you are our only successful developer for icehouse. | 17:19 |
| hartsocks | garyk: :-) | 17:20 |
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| rgerganov | garyk, how would you compare merging a blueprint and running 50k? | 17:20 |
| garyk | the blueprint is harder | 17:20 |
| rgerganov | just kidding :) you are a hero | 17:20 |
| hartsocks | garyk: so I noticed you went through as many as 3 or 4 revisions per day at the end… why do you think that happened? | 17:20 |
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| garyk | there were either pep8 failures/comments that were addressed from reviewrer | 17:21 |
| hartsocks | garyk: I've finally figured out my own pep8 breakage and maybe that's one small thing we can do for the OpenStack community at large… | 17:22 |
| hartsocks | garyk: document how to properly avoid posting things with silly pep8 errors and things like that. | 17:22 |
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| tjones1 | i always forget to run it and then get embarassed | 17:22 |
| mdbooth | tjones1: +1 | 17:23 |
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| hartsocks | Maybe if we had a pre-review tool that helped us check everything? | 17:23 |
| browne | it might be useful if there was a check that prevent a git review without running local test first | 17:23 |
| hartsocks | :-) | 17:23 |
| tjones1 | i wish tox were faster | 17:24 |
| hartsocks | That's probably something that could help everyone and avoid making multiple posts in a row. I've been really bad about that myself. | 17:24 |
| garyk | big reviews are also very problematic. a reviewer may see something in a second iteration that she/he did not see in the first | 17:24 |
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| mdbooth | hartsocks: In the grand scheme, though, pep8 failures are only an annoyance | 17:24 |
| garyk | small is better, but no idea how to do a small on for som efatures that are more than 10 lines of code (i have seen patches for big features done in piece meal), they were very hard to follow and at time added and deleted code 3 pateches later... | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | mdbooth: agreed, but they do cause spam on -nova and maybe people ignore our work if they think we "cry wolf" too much? | 17:25 |
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| hartsocks | garyk: I've seen some work done on the main nova branch that adds a hunk of code… but it's not used… just kind of placed there. | 17:26 |
| hartsocks | garyk: then later a number of patches start applying the new thing. | 17:26 |
| mdbooth | As long as the commit message explains why, I like that sort of commit | 17:26 |
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| mdbooth | I don't think there's a firm rule here, but the principal that smaller is usually better is a good one imho | 17:27 |
| garyk | commit message here was very specific : aging support :) | 17:27 |
| garyk | one liner :) | 17:27 |
| mdbooth | hartsocks: I have a general comment on reviews if now's a good time | 17:28 |
| rgerganov | submitting code that is not used is wrong to me; how do you define an interface/utility/whatever with no clients? | 17:28 |
| hartsocks | well, I'll leave everyone with doing their own dissection of the history of that patch and we can discuss conclusions on the mailing list. | 17:28 |
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| hartsocks | mdbooth: sure… I'm about to launch into another topic for the group to consider. | 17:29 |
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| mdbooth | Comments! | 17:29 |
| mdbooth | Lots and lots of comments. Big design comments. | 17:29 |
| mdbooth | If a bit of code looks weird, why does it look weird? | 17:29 |
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| hartsocks | *lol* I tend to write small books in my patches but I've never managed to merge a feature yet. | 17:30 |
| mdbooth | There's no need to comment code flow | 17:30 |
| mdbooth | Not extensively, anyay | 17:30 |
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| mdbooth | But it's vital to comment why something is done in a particular way rather than some other way | 17:30 |
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| mdbooth | Assumptions that the code makes | 17:30 |
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| hartsocks | +1 | 17:31 |
| vuil | good points | 17:31 |
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| mdbooth | Comments are better than blueprints for documenting design long term | 17:31 |
| rgerganov | I would argue that using good names is far more important than comments | 17:31 |
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| mdbooth | rgerganov: That's complementary | 17:31 |
| rgerganov | calling something "uuid" which is not uuid is a huge mistake no matter how many comments you have | 17:31 |
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| hartsocks | rgerganov: I saw a very good comment you made on a review that caused the developer to change from "get" to "search" in the name of a method. I thought that's a very good thing. | 17:32 |
| hartsocks | rgerganov: and I think we do have a problem around uuid abuse right now. | 17:32 |
| mdbooth | That's a classic example of a need for a big comment block somewhere | 17:33 |
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| tjones1 | rgerganov: yes you have a point (and i know what you are referring to). Still i agree with mdbooth that some -1 would have not happened if there were good comments | 17:33 |
| mdbooth | AFAIK, there's nowhere that we describe the association between an instance and a VM | 17:33 |
| mdbooth | And it's not a simple association | 17:33 |
| mdbooth | You have to infer it from the code | 17:33 |
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| mdbooth | And some of the code is only there for legacy reasons | 17:33 |
| hartsocks | I actually have a blueprint proposed for this kind of concern. | 17:34 |
| hartsocks | But, I'll refrain from plugging it just yet. | 17:34 |
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| hartsocks | A few weeks ago dansmith asked me to write this up: | 17:34 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/vmware-spawn-refactor | 17:34 |
| hartsocks | and there's been much discussion around it on the mailing list. | 17:35 |
| ssurana | since we are discussing about my patch I would like to clear few things here if it's okay | 17:35 |
| tjones1 | ssurana: good idea - time's a wasting | 17:35 |
| mdbooth | hartsocks: point 3 is a separate bp imho | 17:35 |
| hartsocks | ssurana: I'll let you defend yourself if you feel attacked because I think that's only fair. But please keep it targeted. | 17:36 |
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| ssurana | sure | 17:36 |
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| ssurana | objection#1 misuse of the "nvp.vm-uuid" | 17:36 |
| ssurana | The reason this needs to stay like this is, we want to make sure that we can get the reference to this vm in the context of the openstack instance later as well. e.g. when the user chooses the back out of the resize then we want to find this vm again and then re-do the linkage. | 17:37 |
| ssurana | If we put the nvp.vm-uuid as null, then we loose the original context of what this VM was used for originally. | 17:37 |
| ssurana | Having said the above one could argue that we are renaming that VM as well with the same uuid+suffix, and that it should be sufficient for our purpose. I wanted to mention here that even if that does solve the problem temporarily, but since "name" being a field that is quickly editable by any user who is using a client. Thus it makes it less reliable, which was the original reason why we moved away from relying on the name for linkage at the first | 17:37 |
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| hartsocks | ssurana: okay. Let's table that to the bug discussion now. | 17:37 |
| ssurana | sure | 17:37 |
| hartsocks | so, Juno will open for commit in a few weeks. | 17:38 |
| hartsocks | maybe sooner. | 17:38 |
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| tjones1 | rc1 on friday | 17:38 |
| tjones1 | so sooner | 17:38 |
| hartsocks | If you follow the ML on this topic it seems the chief complaint isn't necessarily the spawn method itself … it's our tests. | 17:39 |
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| tjones1 | um and the fact that it's complicated and hard to follow | 17:39 |
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| hartsocks | The reviews in the past used to be "yeah, there's tests" but it seems the attitude has changed… | 17:40 |
| vuil | really? the spawn method code is not worth a complain? | 17:40 |
| browne | as someone new to the code, i agree its hard to follow the tests | 17:40 |
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| browne | and some tests look like noops | 17:40 |
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| hartsocks | vuil: it's one of the easiest places to put a finger on and say "fix that" but really… | 17:41 |
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| hartsocks | vuil: the complaint I hear under "spawn is ugly" is … "how do I know it's tested" and that's to tjones1's point. | 17:41 |
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| hartsocks | both things are related. | 17:41 |
| hartsocks | I've been on this project since Havana opened … and in that time… | 17:42 |
| hartsocks | H1 had 0 merged blueprints for this driver | 17:42 |
| hartsocks | H2 had 0 merged blueprints for this driver | 17:42 |
| hartsocks | with a number of near misses. | 17:42 |
| garyk | i am most probably going against the grain here,but the spawn is actually tested very well. both with the fakes and the mocking. the coverage is very good | 17:42 |
| hartsocks | H3 had a few blueprints that merged and a number of misses. Most interestingly the ephemeral disk support missed. | 17:43 |
| tjones1 | it missed 2 releases | 17:43 |
| sabari | garyk: concur with gary, just that it's not explicit, once the refactoring is done, tests will be evident. | 17:43 |
| hartsocks | H3 to H RC1 looked almost identical to I3 to RC1 | 17:43 |
| hartsocks | I1 had 0 merged blueprints. | 17:43 |
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| hartsocks | I2 had 0 merged blueprints with a number of near misses… most interestingly ephemeral disk support missed (to me interesting anyway) | 17:44 |
| hartsocks | I3 had a small number of open blueprints merge. | 17:44 |
| vuil | gary,sabari: agree. But it is not to say the tests does miss things. | 17:44 |
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| arnaud | hartsocks: what's your point? | 17:44 |
| hartsocks | If we continue to do business as we have. I don't see things changing. | 17:45 |
| vuil | In fact through refactoring I discovered a few more things we can add to fake to make it represent reality better :-) | 17:45 |
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| hartsocks | vuil, arnaud, garyk, sabari: the test coverage numbers do not lie. We have very good test coverage in many places. The complaint is core-reviewers can't follow it. | 17:45 |
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| hartsocks | At the moment we have the core-reviewers attention and they are interested in seeing us refactor things both in the code… and in test… | 17:46 |
| hartsocks | and if we had a J-1 that was 0 merged features… this would be no different than everything that has happened since grizzly-1 | 17:47 |
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| hartsocks | We are going on two years now as a community with this same pattern of extreme effort and only marginal success. | 17:47 |
| tjones1 | hartsocks: ok - suggestions?? | 17:48 |
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| hartsocks | I suggest we make priority for Juno-1 be refactoring work. | 17:48 |
| hartsocks | No new features. | 17:48 |
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| hartsocks | (at least features behind refactoring work) | 17:48 |
| tjones1 | what about the 6 features we did for icehouse that did not make it? | 17:49 |
| hartsocks | That means a number of parallel refactoring efforts… and some coordination… I can't propose all that here and expect us to resolve it in 15 minutes. | 17:49 |
| hartsocks | tjones1: a good point for discussion. | 17:49 |
| tjones1 | glance work. vsan, ova, hot plug, etc | 17:50 |
| hartsocks | tjones1: will the core-reviewers allow those 6 to merge first before we refactor or will they block it? | 17:50 |
| tjones1 | hartsocks: i am not disagreeing but i am mentioning we left significant work on the table…. i don't know the answer to that | 17:50 |
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| tjones1 | we will have to ask | 17:50 |
| hartsocks | I am proposing something radical. | 17:51 |
| hartsocks | I won't and can't say we *must* do this or else. | 17:51 |
| hartsocks | I rarely use this forum as a platform. But I felt this needed to be aired. | 17:51 |
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| tjones1 | you want to do refactor and then the icehouse features after? just trying to clarify | 17:51 |
| tjones1 | and where does oslo integration come in - we clearly need like 2 or 3 hours for this meeting :-) | 17:52 |
| hartsocks | That's the possibility that makes the most sense to me. Assuming we have core-reviewer support. | 17:52 |
| hartsocks | I just wanted to air this while I have everyone's attention... | 17:52 |
| hartsocks | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/vmware-subteam-icehouse | 17:53 |
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| hartsocks | That's our icehouse etherpad where we all coordinated efforts. | 17:53 |
| hartsocks | Here's our Juno etherpad... | 17:53 |
| hartsocks | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/vmware-subteam-juno | 17:53 |
| hartsocks | … please use it for coordination. None of us has anymore authority than the others. | 17:54 |
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| hartsocks | And I genuinely feel this code base is sick. | 17:54 |
| hartsocks | As in "ill" or "has a fever" not as in "awesome dude" | 17:54 |
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| mdbooth | Curse those young people and their language redefinition | 17:55 |
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| hartsocks | Because if I don't draw that conclusion … based on the valiant efforts of garyk, russellb, and other reviewers then I have to draw different conclusions that aren't good for collaboration. | 17:55 |
| garyk | hartsocks: i look at it a little different | 17:55 |
| hartsocks | mdbooth: :-) | 17:55 |
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| garyk | i think it is an opportunity to improve things. that is what we have | 17:56 |
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| hartsocks | garyk: that doesn't feel like anything opposing what I've said. | 17:56 |
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| tjones1 | i agree - we have been living with some legacy stuff that we all hated - now we have the opportunity to fix it | 17:56 |
| garyk | correct, but lets look ahead. we have a nice proposal. lets start to comment on that. | 17:57 |
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| mdbooth | The specific proposal was that juno-1 be a 0 feature release | 17:57 |
| mdbooth | Does anybody object to that? | 17:57 |
| garyk | there were the three patches by vui providing an framework. lets look at those and see if it is the right way to go | 17:57 |
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| garyk | mdbooth: i do | 17:58 |
| vuil | Addressed by: https://review.openstack.org/82958 | 17:58 |
| vuil | vmwareapi: WIP: (nonworking draft) refactor spawn logic proposal | 17:58 |
| garyk | my two cents are lets look at the spawn issues, try and get them done asap. hopefully have a little window for features | 17:58 |
| vuil | would be the last of the three that the other two was setting up for. I would like some comments on the general approach | 17:58 |
| hartsocks | any objection for putting the specific proposal Juno-1 as a 0 feature release to a vote in 7 days time? | 17:59 |
| hartsocks | would people agree to abide by the results of the vote? | 17:59 |
| vuil | which I think can proceed in parallel with the other refactoring work items listed in the BP | 17:59 |
| mdbooth | hartsocks: Do you want to kick off a mailing list discussion? | 17:59 |
| mdbooth | Given that we have 1 minute, might be better taken there | 17:59 |
| hartsocks | mdbooth: that should happen as well. | 17:59 |
| tjones1 | so very clearly we are saying. do the refactor, THEN add the icehouse features that did not back it back on. we need to clarify the olso integtation | 18:00 |
| russellb | it's probably easier to say "here are the specific refactorings" we're doing first | 18:00 |
| russellb | and hopefully that's within juno-1 | 18:00 |
| russellb | if so, maybe some features make it | 18:00 |
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| russellb | if not, have to finish it, because it will be disruptive to feature work anyway | 18:00 |
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| russellb | right? | 18:00 |
| garyk | russellb: agree 100% | 18:00 |
| russellb | k | 18:00 |
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| hartsocks | russellb: I agree with that. | 18:00 |
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| russellb | other big juno ask is please try to coordinate your patch stream so that there's less conflict | 18:00 |
| russellb | i think that was one of the things that has slowed down reviews/merges | 18:01 |
| vuil | the oslo work is a refactoring of sorts. I removes dependencies on a bunch of code that is now way better tested elsewhere. | 18:01 |
| hartsocks | vuil: I agree with that. | 18:01 |
| tjones1 | ok i'd really like to get the refactor done asap so we can get the icehouse misses into j-1 | 18:01 |
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| tjones1 | can that be a goal? | 18:02 |
| hartsocks | we're out of time. I will kick off a thread on the ML to further discussion. | 18:02 |
| sabari | jay-lau-513: we didn't have an opportunity to discuss the live-migration today, would be happy to have a discussion on the mailing list/irc. | 18:02 |
| hartsocks | tjones1: that can be an appropriate compromise. | 18:02 |
| hartsocks | I'm over on #openstack-nova for further IRC discussion. | 18:02 |
| hartsocks | #endmeeting | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Mar 26 18:02:57 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2014/vmwareapi.2014-03-26-17.01.html | 18:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2014/vmwareapi.2014-03-26-17.01.txt | 18:03 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2014/vmwareapi.2014-03-26-17.01.log.html | 18:03 |
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| notmyname | swift team meeting time. | 18:59 |
| notmyname | who's here? | 18:59 |
| peluse | yo | 18:59 |
| portante | o/ | 18:59 |
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| gvernik | hello | 19:00 |
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| creiht | howdy | 19:00 |
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| acoles_ | hello | 19:00 |
| torgomatic | hi | 19:00 |
| * clayg is not here | 19:00 | |
| cschwede_ | Hi! | 19:00 |
| notmyname | ok, creiht's gotta run, so let's go fast ;-) | 19:01 |
| notmyname | #startmeeting swift | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Mar 26 19:01:08 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'swift' | 19:01 |
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| notmyname | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Swift | 19:01 |
| notmyname | not a ton on the agenda today | 19:01 |
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| notmyname | first up, OpenStack Icehouse | 19:01 |
| notmyname | #topic Icehouse | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Icehouse (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:02 | |
| torgomatic | Igloo? | 19:02 |
| clayg | are we still doing that? | 19:02 |
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| * peluse thinks of a cooler and then drifts to thiking of beer | 19:02 | |
| notmyname | we need to offer our sacrifice^Wrelease next week | 19:02 |
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| notmyname | ie our RC for the Icehouse integrated release | 19:03 |
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| peluse | what needs to get done? | 19:03 |
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| notmyname | looking at what's in master since 1.13.0 and what's proposed right now in gerrit, there isn't a lot of major stuff (yay frequent releases) | 19:03 |
| zaitcev | I like the containeralias, but account ACLs are nice too. | 19:03 |
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| notmyname | therefore I'm leaning towards a 1.13.1 release, rather than 1.14.0 | 19:04 |
| notmyname | but if I've missed something, please let me know | 19:04 |
| torgomatic | I'd like cross-account copy, but I think I saw there was some security problem...? | 19:04 |
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| notmyname | I updated the priority reviews wiki page https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Swift/PriorityReviews | 19:04 |
| clayg | torgomatic: psssththt "security" | 19:04 |
| notmyname | and there is a set of things that should be looked at with icehosue | 19:04 |
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| creiht | torgomatic: yeah I could copy an object from an account that I didn't have access to | 19:05 |
| notmyname | the logging and range and md5 patches should go in pre-icehouse | 19:05 |
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| torgomatic | creiht: yeah, that seems bad... is that something we can fix in Swift, or does the auth system have to do it? | 19:05 |
| creiht | unless I was doing something wrong (which wouldn't be the first time :)) | 19:05 |
| clayg | creiht: did you write a failing functests! (dfg is all about the functests) | 19:05 |
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| creiht | torgomatic: not sure, haven't heard back from them yet | 19:05 |
| creiht | clayg: dfg volunteered to work on that | 19:05 |
| * clayg hugs dfg | 19:06 | |
| creiht | clayg: still no guarantee... creating a reasonable test is a bit problematic for that one | 19:06 |
| clayg | oh | 19:06 |
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| portante | 891883 | 19:07 |
| portante | 356902 | 19:07 |
| portante | 902626 | 19:07 |
| portante | 896105 | 19:07 |
| notmyname | that's numberwang | 19:07 |
| portante | ah yeah, sorry | 19:07 |
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| portante | some one was talking about security? ;) | 19:08 |
| notmyname | portante: are those the functest patches you've got WIP? | 19:08 |
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| portante | ;) | 19:08 |
| zaitcev | no | 19:08 |
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| portante | working on the unit tests for the proxy logging fix | 19:08 |
| notmyname | ah, cool. good. | 19:09 |
| torgomatic | any thoughts on tests for the slo-range patch? | 19:09 |
| notmyname | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82895/ | 19:09 |
| portante | if I understood what that fix was about, ... sorry | 19:09 |
| creiht | torgomatic: dfg is working on that | 19:10 |
| portante | can somebody explain that offline? | 19:10 |
| torgomatic | creiht: ok cool | 19:10 |
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| notmyname | ok, cool | 19:10 |
| notmyname | so it looks like the manifest bugs (including logging) are being actively worked on, including tests | 19:10 |
| notmyname | other stuff is being reviewed | 19:11 |
| creiht | torgomatic: but like I told clayg, it is a bit tricky :) | 19:11 |
| notmyname | and peluse clayg and torgomatic are busy with storage policies | 19:11 |
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| torgomatic | creiht: yeah, I could have sworn we had a functional test for that stuff already | 19:11 |
| torgomatic | at least for the simple case | 19:11 |
| notmyname | also, if you are going to atlanta and haven't registered yet with your ATC discount code, you should do that before friday. (do it now!) | 19:12 |
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| portante | and get your plane tickets before they go up! | 19:12 |
| * notmyname needs to do that today | 19:12 | |
| torgomatic | well yeah, after they go up it's a bit late to buy a ticket ;) | 19:13 |
| notmyname | lol | 19:13 |
| * peluse gets it | 19:13 | |
| portante | nice | 19:13 |
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| zaitcev | wait, what | 19:13 |
| notmyname | what other patches need to be in for icehouse? | 19:13 |
| zaitcev | I thought discount expired on 3/22 | 19:13 |
| notmyname | zaitcev: they extended it to the 28th | 19:13 |
| zaitcev | yay!! | 19:14 |
| zaitcev | I just got budget today | 19:14 |
| notmyname | awesome | 19:14 |
| notmyname | it looks likely that we'll only have 8 sessions for swift at the summit. 15 have been proposed already | 19:15 |
| notmyname | so I propose a cage match to the death | 19:16 |
| peluse | better than having 15 slots and only 8 submissions | 19:16 |
| notmyname | yes, true :-) | 19:16 |
| peluse | I'm in on the cage match! | 19:16 |
| notmyname | peluse: yeah, but you're bigger than anyone else ;-) | 19:16 |
| cschwede_ | notmyname: is this a fixed number? | 19:16 |
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| cschwede_ | notmyname: or adopting to the number of submissions? | 19:16 |
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| clayg | notmyname: that's no joke peluse has guns | 19:17 |
| notmyname | cschwede_: final schedules have yet to be approved, but it looks like we'll likely have 8 time slots, 40 minutes each | 19:17 |
| peluse | heh | 19:17 |
| notmyname | and please don't stop submitting session proposals. | 19:18 |
| creiht | notmyname: :/ | 19:18 |
| creiht | about session slots | 19:18 |
| notmyname | but don't assume every one will be accepted :-) | 19:18 |
| notmyname | creiht: my thoughts exactly | 19:18 |
| peluse | notmyname: maybe we can collapse a few related ones into single sessions w/shorter summaries to at least socialize some ideas? | 19:18 |
| cschwede_ | hmm, too many interesting Swift summit proposals. Maybe do some of them outside the regular slots? | 19:18 |
| notmyname | peluse: ya | 19:18 |
| notmyname | cschwede_: possibly | 19:18 |
| creiht | notmyname: is there a count for all the projects? | 19:18 |
| notmyname | I think we may also have a designated unconference area | 19:19 |
| peluse | there's always the local pub too | 19:19 |
| notmyname | creiht: why would you ask questions you know that will make you sad? | 19:19 |
| cschwede_ | peluse: +1 | 19:19 |
| creiht | heh | 19:19 |
| notmyname | ok, anything else for "The Road to Icehouse" (tm)? | 19:20 |
| notmyname | ok | 19:20 |
| creiht | notmyname: I wonder how that number gets calculated | 19:20 |
| notmyname | I had py3 support in swiftlcient on the agenda, but I can't remember why I added that | 19:20 |
| torgomatic | looks like people are working on it, which seems fine | 19:21 |
| notmyname | ya | 19:21 |
| notmyname | #topic open discussion | 19:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:21 | |
| peluse | Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen... acct head policy rollup has been approved (much thanks clayg and torgomatic!) | 19:21 |
| creiht | notmyname: maybe about tests with py3 merge props? | 19:21 |
| notmyname | creiht: ya, maybe. but that seems like a thing we shoudl do regardless | 19:21 |
| creiht | yeah agreed, but just remember someone asking about that in channel | 19:22 |
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| creiht | so I was thinking maybe that's why you put it on there | 19:22 |
| notmyname | any patch reviews or other issues that need to be brought up in today's meeting? | 19:22 |
| peluse | just one I can catch up w/clayg about on the other channel | 19:22 |
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| notmyname | last call... | 19:23 |
| notmyname | thanks for attending this week. keep up the good work! | 19:24 |
| notmyname | #endmeeting | 19:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:24 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Mar 26 19:24:17 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:24 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2014/swift.2014-03-26-19.01.html | 19:24 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2014/swift.2014-03-26-19.01.txt | 19:24 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2014/swift.2014-03-26-19.01.log.html | 19:24 |
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| ttx | hub_cap: around ? Join #openstack-dev ? | 19:59 |
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| stevebaker | #startmeeting heat | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Mar 26 20:00:16 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevebaker. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 20:00 |
| skraynev | o/ | 20:00 |
| stevebaker | #topic rollcall | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| zaneb | greetings | 20:00 |
| asalkeld | o/ | 20:00 |
| asalkeld | (hi from Raleigh) | 20:00 |
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| bgorski | o/ | 20:00 |
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| shardy | o/ | 20:00 |
| tspatzier | hi | 20:00 |
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| mspreitz | o/ | 20:01 |
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| stevebaker | no actions last week | 20:01 |
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| stevebaker | #topic Adding items to the agenda | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adding items to the agenda (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:02 | |
| stevebaker | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda#Agenda_.282014-3-26_2000_UTC.29 | 20:02 |
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| stevebaker | anything to add to the agenda? | 20:03 |
| zaneb | fixing the gate? | 20:03 |
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| zaneb | or leave that for offline | 20:03 |
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| randallburt | sorry I'm late | 20:04 |
| stevebaker | I'll add it | 20:04 |
| skraynev | zaneb: you mean pep8? or something else? | 20:04 |
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| shardy | skraynev: the config generation which is currently broken | 20:04 |
| zaneb | skraynev: yeah, the config file is borked | 20:04 |
| stevebaker | #topic Icehouse rc-1 bug burndown list\ | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Icehouse rc-1 bug burndown list\ (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:04 | |
| skraynev | shardy, zaneb: ok, thanks guys ;) | 20:04 |
| stevebaker | 3 bugs to go, lets quickly go through each one | 20:05 |
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| stevebaker | https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1291091 | 20:05 |
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| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1291091 in heat "dangerous secgroup rule created when the "SourceSecurityGroupName" property string doesn't refer to an existing security group" [High,In progress] | 20:05 |
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| stevebaker | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81558/ | 20:05 |
| stevebaker | this needs reviews as soon as gate is fixed | 20:05 |
| stevebaker | should be good to go | 20:05 |
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| stevebaker | https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1243992 | 20:06 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1243992 in heat "Race on delete between OS::Neutron::Subnet and OS::Nova::Server->networks->uuid" [High,In progress] | 20:06 |
| stevebaker | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82394/ | 20:06 |
| stevebaker | needs an approve | 20:06 |
| stevebaker | https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1296859 | 20:07 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1296859 in heat "stack-list throws an error if any stack returned contains a template error" [Medium,Triaged] | 20:07 |
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| stevebaker | sdake has a migration script pending to fix this particular validation error | 20:07 |
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| stevebaker | I've kicked a few bugs, is there anything that people want to pull back into rc1? | 20:08 |
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| shardy | stevebaker: No, but IMO we should have an rc2 for https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1297761 | 20:09 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1297761 in heat "No validation of top-level template keys" [Undecided,New] | 20:09 |
| shardy | and any other stuff obviously :) | 20:09 |
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| stevebaker | we could be ready for cutting rc1 at the end of this week <-- ttx | 20:10 |
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| tspatzier | stevebaker: I started working on this today. | 20:10 |
| stevebaker | yeah I'm going to assume we will want an rc2 | 20:10 |
| ttx | stevebaker: awesmoe | 20:10 |
| ttx | or some | 20:10 |
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| stevebaker | o for oresome | 20:10 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: lol | 20:10 |
| stevebaker | #topic Should we sync latest oslo.db code? | 20:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Should we sync latest oslo.db code? (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:11 | |
| stevebaker | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76539/ | 20:11 |
| stevebaker | is syncing oslo db too high risk for rc2? | 20:11 |
| sdake | stevebaker sorry was busy with interviews, migration patch should be ready to roll in couple hours | 20:11 |
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| asalkeld | yes, it's quite different | 20:11 |
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| zaneb | stevebaker: sounds late & risky to me | 20:12 |
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| asalkeld | they are starting to remove all globals | 20:12 |
| asalkeld | so requires a bit of work | 20:12 |
| asalkeld | (sessions etc) | 20:13 |
| stevebaker | ok, lets do it in early juno | 20:13 |
| sdake | imo changing anything in ocmmon is not ideal at this point | 20:13 |
| asalkeld | ocaml :) | 20:13 |
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| stevebaker | #agreed sync oslo db in early juno | 20:13 |
| shardy | +1 | 20:14 |
| stevebaker | #topic Defining designated sections for Heat core definition | 20:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Defining designated sections for Heat core definition (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:14 | |
| stevebaker | this one is a doozy | 20:14 |
| randallburt | I want section 7. | 20:14 |
| stevebaker | so there has been back and forth between the TC and the board about how to define what is "core" OpenStack | 20:15 |
| zaneb | so, do we only have to explicitly list pluggable stuff that we want in core? | 20:15 |
| zaneb | or do we have to list all of the non-pluggable stuff + the pluggable stuff we want in core? | 20:15 |
| stevebaker | the board have asked each project to define their designated sections, and I shall tell you what that means | 20:16 |
| zaneb | (I think there was some discussion about this, but I forget the outcome, if any) | 20:16 |
| asalkeld | kinda depends on what is defined as core in the other projects | 20:16 |
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| stevebaker | *if* heat was part of OpenStack core, what parts of heat would need to be installed for a cloud to claim that they "have heat" | 20:16 |
| stevebaker | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/CoreDefinition | 20:17 |
| asalkeld | we can't say resource x is core if the feature is not core in it's project | 20:17 |
| randallburt | seems to me, Heat "core" should be HOT, CFN, and the "native" and CFN resources that correspond to the "core" openstack services (whatever they may be). | 20:17 |
| asalkeld | -1 to cfn | 20:17 |
| stevebaker | here is where our results can go | 20:17 |
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| stevebaker | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-designated-sections | 20:17 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: but we could say if you have that feature, you have to have the resource plugin for it too | 20:17 |
| randallburt | asalkeld: I wouldn't argue | 20:17 |
| sdake | -1 to non-native resources | 20:17 |
| sdake | core is the minimum | 20:18 |
| stevebaker | so I just want to start the discussion now, and lets whack a first draft into https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-designated-sections | 20:18 |
| zaneb | randallburt: no need for cfn to be core IMO | 20:18 |
| sdake | we dont want to force cfn and non-native on folks | 20:18 |
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| randallburt | so openstack native api, and resource plug-ins that support the other services defined as "core"? | 20:18 |
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| asalkeld | sounds good | 20:18 |
| asalkeld | what about cfn-tools? | 20:19 |
| stevebaker | randallburt: that is the gist I've been thinking of | 20:19 |
| zaneb | yep, and the HOT parser | 20:19 |
| shardy | I agree native api and resources, but we'll have to fix the gaps where we still require cfn stuff | 20:19 |
| randallburt | cfn-tools isn't *required* to make heat work | 20:19 |
| stevebaker | asalkeld: that is up to the user's images | 20:19 |
| randallburt | stevebaker: +1 | 20:19 |
| zaneb | shardy: true, we'll have to require WaitCondition and the like | 20:19 |
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| asalkeld | stevebaker, just saying we should be explict | 20:19 |
| sdake | cfn-tools is not part of hte integrated release randallburt | 20:19 |
| sdake | to be core, it has to be integrated first | 20:19 |
| stevebaker | so lets get on that etherpad and brain-dump a list | 20:19 |
| randallburt | k | 20:20 |
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| shardy | zaneb: provide native signalling in general, e.g from ceilometer which currently requires ec2tokens | 20:20 |
| shardy | that's the main gap AFAIK | 20:20 |
| sdake | i thought to hvae a designed section you had to have functional CI in place | 20:20 |
| sdake | stevebaker did I parse that wrong? | 20:21 |
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| stevebaker | ah yes, designated sections are validated by tempest tests, so you should be able to run tempest against a cloud to check for compliance | 20:22 |
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| stevebaker | how about this for designated | 20:23 |
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| stevebaker | heat-api | 20:23 |
| stevebaker | heat-engine | 20:23 |
| stevebaker | all OS::Heat::* resources | 20:23 |
| stevebaker | OS::* resources which correspond with the APIs of designated sections of other projects | 20:23 |
| zaneb | can we insert "non-deprecated" in there? | 20:24 |
| stevebaker | clouds are free to reimplement resource types, as long as they match the schema of ours, since that will pass the tests | 20:25 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: yes, because its not long enough yet ;) | 20:25 |
| asalkeld | can we add "core" to our resource versioning system? | 20:25 |
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| shardy | stevebaker: sounds good, but mentioning tempest, I guess there'll be a core/non-core refactor there, as currently we have a mix | 20:25 |
| skraynev | stevebaker: what about AWS:: resources which are used as parent class for OS:: resources ? | 20:25 |
| asalkeld | so we can just dump this info out | 20:25 |
| stevebaker | shardy: I'm guessing there will be some attribute tagging on tests | 20:25 |
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| stevebaker | skraynev: I think the parent relationship should be inverted on those resources | 20:26 |
| zaneb | skraynev: not required - making your own implementation is OK. besides, you don't have to register the AWS:: resources | 20:26 |
| shardy | skraynev: IMO, in the medium term we need to refactor those out, and move to a model where most AWS resources are provider templates based on native resources | 20:26 |
| stevebaker | "OS::* resources which correspond with the non-deprecated APIs of designated sections of other projects" | 20:27 |
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| sdake | we also dont want to require deprecated OS:: resources | 20:27 |
| stevebaker | sdake: I'll just add that to replaceable sections | 20:27 |
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| sdake | wfm | 20:28 |
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| skraynev | shardy: I think that will be better to have one base class, which will be used OS ans AWS resources both. | 20:28 |
| afarrell | hello, first time here - looking to contribute to heat. specifically, tosca translation... ps - sorry for the interruption. | 20:28 |
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| stevebaker | afarrell: \o | 20:29 |
| shardy | skraynev: well that's basically what I said, only the AWS resources become provider templates not actual plugins | 20:29 |
| stevebaker | afarrell: you should talk to tspatzier | 20:29 |
| afarrell | thanks steve | 20:29 |
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| shardy | skraynev: e.g AWS::EC2::Instance becomes a provider template containing an OS::Nova::Server resource | 20:29 |
| tspatzier | afarrell: yeah, let's talk. but maybe not hijack the meeting for this ;-) | 20:29 |
| stevebaker | well, I was expecting this topic to take the entire meeting, there appears to be resounding consensus | 20:29 |
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| afarrell | tspatzier - no worries, thanks! | 20:30 |
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| skraynev | shardy: agree, it make sense. | 20:30 |
| sdake | i have 1 q | 20:30 |
| stevebaker | I'll paste that etherpad into https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-designated-sections | 20:30 |
| randallburt | stevebaker: we can argue some more if it makes you feel better. | 20:30 |
| sdake | the wait conditions as they exist today, doesn't that require the cloudwatch api? | 20:30 |
| stevebaker | they require the cfn API, yes | 20:31 |
| sdake | ok I guess we need to fix that :) | 20:31 |
| randallburt | stevebaker: which we'll have to fix if we include them in "core", yes? | 20:31 |
| shardy | sdake: Yeah, that's part of the native signaling I mentioned | 20:31 |
| sdake | so we can't require waitconditions in the core | 20:31 |
| sdake | need to add an exception for waitconditions - since our dependency is not core | 20:31 |
| stevebaker | well, the waitcondition is AWS::, so they are just as replacable as the API they use | 20:31 |
| randallburt | we can always leave them out in the first go, they're handy but you can do cool stuff without them. | 20:31 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: is this an immediate thing, or targeting some future release? A lot of cfn stuff may drop out over time, but be required right now | 20:31 |
| sdake | stevebaker good point - back to lala land forme | 20:32 |
| stevebaker | but software deployments can use native heat api *or* cfn | 20:32 |
| shardy | sdake: I started working on some native alterntives, but to some extent you can replace them with stevebaker's SoftwareDeployment resources, which already support native signalling | 20:32 |
| shardy | stevebaker: \o/ SoftwareDeployments ftw :) | 20:32 |
| sdake | if only someone would write a hip blog about softwraedeployments :) | 20:33 |
| shardy | I still think we may need a pure signalling resource for some use-cases, but it's definitely not super high priority | 20:33 |
| stevebaker | signal_transport=HEAT_SIGNAL ;) | 20:33 |
| asalkeld | any thoughts about moving software configs into a seperate repo? | 20:33 |
| asalkeld | (like the autoscaling) | 20:33 |
| asalkeld | (an aside I know) | 20:34 |
| shardy | asalkeld: like the autoscaling? | 20:34 |
| tspatzier | sdake: going to play around with software deployment and hope to produce some more samples and even docs around how to use it. | 20:34 |
| stevebaker | asalkeld: software configs could be stored in glance, which would leave a *tiny* deployments api | 20:34 |
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| sdake | tspatzier that would be great - people wont know how to use it without docs :) | 20:34 |
| stevebaker | asalkeld: which may as well stay in heat | 20:34 |
| asalkeld | stevebaker, I mean the code | 20:34 |
| asalkeld | no biggie | 20:34 |
| zaneb | stevebaker, asalkeld: does it have a separate endpoint in the catalog? | 20:35 |
| sdake | i think we need to sort out getting autoscaling into a new repo before we shave off more work :) | 20:35 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, I think it should | 20:35 |
| stevebaker | asalkeld: I hadn't considered that. its just part of the heat api currently | 20:35 |
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| randallburt | asalkeld, zaneb templates will, software cofigs would too I suppose. | 20:35 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: inclined to agree it should, but *does* it? ;) | 20:36 |
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| asalkeld | no | 20:36 |
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| shardy | sdake: why do we want autoscaling in a separate repo, when there has been zero progress on the native autoscaling API over an entire cycle? | 20:36 |
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| tspatzier | are you talking about all the hooks that are currently going into heat-templates? or more of the software config implementation? | 20:37 |
| shardy | I'm very happy we have the native resources, but IMO splitting repos is premature | 20:37 |
| stevebaker | tspatzier: that is good point, I've been assuming that heat-templates is the best place for the hooks to live | 20:37 |
| zaneb | shardy: 2 cycles by my count, but hopefully that won't last forever. I don't think sdake is suggesting we split it _now_ | 20:37 |
| sdake | shardy my point was we haven't tackled autoscaling, why would we tackle software deployments as a separate repo | 20:37 |
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| shardy | sdake, zaneb: k, just wanted to check there wasn't some decision I missed ;) | 20:38 |
| asalkeld | yeah, it's a matter of people | 20:38 |
| tspatzier | stevebaker: yes, agree. I don't see other parts to be split out at the moment. | 20:38 |
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| shardy | I'm not opposed to splitting stuff when it makes sense | 20:38 |
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| shardy | asalkeld: That's my main argument for not splitting things out, lets focus in one place rather than fragment effort | 20:39 |
| shardy | when it becomes clear there's an obvious split, split the repos | 20:39 |
| stevebaker | shardy: +1 | 20:39 |
| asalkeld | just re: hoha about application/infrastructure seperation | 20:39 |
| shardy | and develop things in a way that would be sympathetic to a future separation | 20:39 |
| asalkeld | shardy, sure | 20:39 |
| asalkeld | but maybe a good time for a new endpoint | 20:39 |
| asalkeld | to make that easy | 20:40 |
| stevebaker | #topic Teh gates is borken | 20:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Teh gates is borken (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:40 | |
| asalkeld | reminds me to go fix solum sample config | 20:41 |
| zaneb | I put up a patch to fix the gate | 20:41 |
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| zaneb | it modifies an oslo-incubator file without an upstream change | 20:41 |
| zaneb | discuss. | 20:41 |
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| sdake | i'm pretty sure when I did that I got 2 -1 votes :) | 20:42 |
| shardy | zaneb: so can you explain why the oslo folks wouldn't take your patch? | 20:42 |
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| stevebaker | zaneb: do you want to append https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81558/ to that so we get a head-start on merging it? | 20:42 |
| asalkeld | is this the client config sections? | 20:42 |
| shardy | I'm -2 on it unless we move it out of openstack/common | 20:42 |
| zaneb | shardy: it was a different patch that they rejected | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | if you have oslo patches you need to land for rc1, please let us know in #openstack-oslo | 20:43 |
| stevebaker | can't we just have a change which runs generate_sample.sh | 20:43 |
| sdake | generate_sample.sh calls a python file stevebaker | 20:43 |
| sdake | generator.py | 20:43 |
| sdake | generator.py is pos imo :) | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | sdake: :-( | 20:44 |
| sdake | sorry dhellmann but thtas how I see it :( | 20:44 |
| zaneb | dhellmann: I'll drop in and discuss with you after this | 20:44 |
| shardy | zaneb: since we have dhellmann here, can you explain the issues, and why we can't just get the stuff into oslo? | 20:44 |
| zaneb | shardy: basically, because the fix for us breaks Nova | 20:45 |
| sdake | ya an accounting of the nova viewpoint woudl be helpful | 20:45 |
| zaneb | and vice-versa | 20:45 |
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| shardy | zaneb: If we *have* to fork temporarily to unblock the gate, lets pull the generator code out of the heat oslo tree completely IMO | 20:45 |
| zaneb | I'm fine with that | 20:45 |
| vijendar | ls | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | zaneb: thank | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | sdake: patches welcome, keep your attitude | 20:45 |
| zaneb | so to get a fix that works for Nova too involves some roundabout changes to either python-keystoneclient, nova or both | 20:46 |
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| vijendar | sorry.. my last message was by mistake (wrong terminal) | 20:46 |
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| zaneb | it's not clear what the Right way to fix it is, and we don't have time to figure it out while the gate is broken | 20:47 |
| shardy | who'd have thought generating a config file could be so hard :( | 20:47 |
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| shardy | zaneb: sounds like we fork with a temporary fix then work on the long-term solution for early Juno? | 20:48 |
| zaneb | shardy: the way that olso.config registers options is kinda... nasty. problems were probably inevitable | 20:48 |
| zaneb | yep, I think that's the way to go | 20:48 |
| shardy | sounds odd that we have conflicting requirements to Nova, I thought the point of us all using oslo.config etc was that it's all common | 20:48 |
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| zaneb | shardy: I can explain the details after, but TBH it's really boring | 20:49 |
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| asalkeld | shardy, well in this case we are happy this isn't a library | 20:49 |
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| stevebaker | ok, lets fork to heat.common for now | 20:49 |
| zaneb | long story short, python-keystoneclient is doing it wrong and Nova is caught up in it | 20:49 |
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| shardy | Maybe all the projects should stop generating config from keystoneclient, and just import a (generated, by the keystoneclient tree) sample snippet | 20:50 |
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| mspreitz | zaneb: could that be the cause of https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1289135 ? | 20:50 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1289135 in python-cinderclient "cinderclient AmbiguousEndpoints in Nova API when deleting nested stack" [Undecided,New] | 20:50 |
| asalkeld | shardy, that is possible | 20:51 |
| zaneb | mspreitz: no | 20:51 |
| shardy | The coupling between keystoneclient and all-the-projects seems to be the main issue, we keep getting borken by them | 20:51 |
| asalkeld | you can apend static config | 20:51 |
| shardy | s/them/it | 20:51 |
| sdake | the way our client section is generated is suboptimal as well | 20:51 |
| asalkeld | one other issue is you can't exclude files | 20:51 |
| sdake | i'll fix that up once we get a generator that works | 20:52 |
| asalkeld | otherwise we could work around this | 20:52 |
| zaneb | sdake: what would you change? | 20:52 |
| sdake | zaneb i'll submit a patch for review when generator is working - you can comment there | 20:52 |
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| sdake | it does some wacky global manipulation | 20:53 |
| zaneb | I'm curious now, because it might affect the way I want to fix the generator ;) | 20:53 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, the problems i found: | 20:53 |
| sdake | i had a patch at one time but i'm not sure if I sitll hav eit | 20:53 |
| sdake | i couldn't get it to work with the generator so abaonded it | 20:53 |
| asalkeld | the __eq__ operator in oslo.config | 20:53 |
| asalkeld | does not compare value | 20:54 |
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| asalkeld | also you can't have an option in multiple groups | 20:54 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: it does now! that's the cause of this bug | 20:54 |
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| asalkeld | ok | 20:54 |
| stevebaker | #topic open discussion | 20:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:55 | |
| stevebaker | 5 minutes | 20:55 |
| sdake | harestarter | 20:55 |
| zaneb | yeah, registering a single option in multiple groups would be nice | 20:55 |
| sdake | rationales for deprecating? | 20:55 |
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| sdake | zaneb shardy seem to have the thought we should deprecate | 20:56 |
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| sdake | like to understand the technical reasons | 20:56 |
| zaneb | please please please let's deprecate it | 20:56 |
| shardy | sdake: it is broken, we don't want to maintain it, and what it does is probably possible via other means | 20:56 |
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| skraynev | stevebaker: 1 question. if we have default value in property schema should it be used during update ? | 20:56 |
| shardy | sdake: It does a weird update, without properly managing dependences, not using the update code | 20:56 |
| shardy | it deletes resource when you aren't expecting it, and is generally not going to actually do what the user really wants | 20:57 |
| sdake | i think people want a ha restart feature | 20:57 |
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| sdake | is the answer to deprecate or make it work properly? | 20:57 |
| zaneb | deprecate. | 20:57 |
| sdake | or is the issue people don't want a ha restart feature | 20:57 |
| zaneb | the issue is that it doesn't belong in Heat | 20:57 |
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| asalkeld | minstral | 20:58 |
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| shardy | sdake: I think the same is possible either via an AutoScaling group os size 1 with an associated alarm, or via stack convergence triggered by a signal | 20:58 |
| stevebaker | skraynev: good question. it might make best sense to use the previous value as the default | 20:58 |
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| shardy | sdake: If users want the functionality I have no problem with us providing it, but the implementation is not something we want to maintain, IMO | 20:58 |
| sdake | if it doesn't belong in heat then where hsould it belong? | 20:59 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: that makes no sense to me | 20:59 |
| skraynev | stevebaker: hm it's confusing to me | 20:59 |
| sdake | ok i've heard the technical implementation is wrong - that can be fixed - i've heard it doesn't belong in heat - would like to understand where it belongs | 20:59 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: options are None or the actual default | 20:59 |
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| skraynev | stevebaker: when you had some list of something and then update with None - you will not get any changes.. | 21:00 |
| zaneb | sdake: in Murano, defined as a Mistral workflow on top of your Heat stack | 21:00 |
| shardy | sdake: we could make OS::Nova::Server optionally respond to a signal and rebuild, or have a subclass resource which does that | 21:00 |
| randallburt | zaneb: ugh. | 21:00 |
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| skraynev | time ... is over | 21:00 |
| stevebaker | skraynev: good point. I retract! | 21:00 |
| stevebaker | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Mar 26 21:00:57 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| randallburt | zaneb, skraynev IMO, if you don't pass a param value to an update, the original version should be used | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-03-26-20.00.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-03-26-20.00.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-03-26-20.00.log.html | 21:01 |
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| jd__ | #startmeeting ceilometer | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Mar 26 21:01:45 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jd__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 21:01 |
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| gordc | o/ | 21:01 |
| ildikov_ | o/ | 21:02 |
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| lsmola | hello | 21:02 |
| eglynn | o/ | 21:02 |
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| _nadya_ | o/ | 21:02 |
| jd__ | #topic Milestone status icehouse-rc1 | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Milestone status icehouse-rc1 (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:02 | |
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| jd__ | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/icehouse-rc1 | 21:03 |
| jd__ | we only have a few bug left, so that looks good | 21:03 |
| jd__ | our target is Friday for rc1 | 21:03 |
| afarrell | thomas - just trying to find the window your message popped up in :-) | 21:03 |
| ildikov_ | jd__: currently there is a gate issue currently, I added a topic about it to the agenda | 21:03 |
| gordc | resource-list patch should be ok for review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/80343/ | 21:03 |
| jd__ | ildikov_: ok | 21:04 |
| * eglynn would like to target https://bugs.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+bug/1297677 to RC1 also | 21:04 | |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1297677 in ceilometer "normal user create alarm with user-id or project-id specified will success instead of return 401" [High,Confirmed] | 21:04 |
| gordc | deadlock issue might need to be pushed due to postgres issue... i think the oslo.db code doesn't work for multiple connections on postgres | 21:04 |
| jd__ | eglynn: targeted | 21:04 |
| _nadya_ | I have a question about rc1. We have merged several-workers patch. And there are some problems with it | 21:04 |
| eglynn | jd__: thank you sir! | 21:04 |
| Alexei_987 | gordc: why do you think it's oslo problem? | 21:05 |
| _nadya_ | gordc: am I right that we need some more patches to be merge to make everything work right? | 21:05 |
| gordc | _nadya_: i added a patch to default it to a single worker: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/83215/ | 21:05 |
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| Alexei_987 | gordc: it was working for me with tests on read backends and it surely uses multiple connections | 21:05 |
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| gordc | Alexei_987: does it work on postgres for you? with multiple connections? it doesn't on my machine. | 21:06 |
| Alexei_987 | gordc: it was working a month ago.. haven't tryied recently | 21:06 |
| gordc | and it doesn't work on gate | 21:06 |
| Alexei_987 | gordc it did :) | 21:06 |
| gordc | :) there's something wonky happening. i think it's best to just default workers to single worker for now... my patch to explicitly call dispose works but i have no real idea why. | 21:07 |
| _nadya_ | jd__: gordc: I think we need to determine the list of patches to me merged before rc1 or revert multi-spawning :( | 21:07 |
| gordc | _nadya_: we don't necessarily need to revert. we can just default to single worker so it behaves as before. | 21:08 |
| Alexei_987 | _nadya_ : I think we should revert in any case | 21:08 |
| Alexei_987 | workers are useless and doesn't solve any problem | 21:08 |
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| Alexei_987 | workers are *only* usefull in case of specific MySQL driver | 21:09 |
| Alexei_987 | there are much simpler way to do without them | 21:09 |
| gordc | Alexei_987: was just going to say that.... useless isn't exactly true | 21:09 |
| jd__ | it's not useless if you want to use several cores | 21:09 |
| gordc | Alexei_987: what's the simpler way? | 21:10 |
| Alexei_987 | use python driver for mysql | 21:10 |
| Alexei_987 | it works in async mode | 21:10 |
| jd__ | gordc: having multiple worker is in no way different than having several collector running, right? | 21:10 |
| Alexei_987 | why would you use several cores? nginx works perfectly in 1 thread | 21:10 |
| gordc | jd__: essentially yes. that's what it's doing. | 21:10 |
| jd__ | Alexei_987: nginx for the collector? | 21:10 |
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| jd__ | gordc: so it's clearly just a visible effect of something that's broken more fundamentally :/ | 21:10 |
| Alexei_987 | nah.. I mean that true async code doesn't need workers | 21:11 |
| Alexei_987 | it won't consume 100% of the cpu | 21:11 |
| jd__ | Alexei_987: so you run nginx on 1 core on your 8 core machines? awesome | 21:11 |
| jd__ | lol | 21:11 |
| Alexei_987 | why not? | 21:11 |
| Alexei_987 | it's enough to fully load network | 21:11 |
| Alexei_987 | cpu is not the bottleneck | 21:11 |
| jd__ | and if your nginx is busy 100% of the time what do you do next? | 21:11 |
| Alexei_987 | again cpu is not the bottleneck | 21:12 |
| Alexei_987 | network or database | 21:12 |
| jd__ | good for you | 21:12 |
| Alexei_987 | database will become bottleneck in our case | 21:12 |
| jd__ | that doesn't solve our problem | 21:12 |
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| Alexei_987 | our problem is poorly written code for mysql | 21:12 |
| jd__ | gordc: so I'm kind of worry, was it working with even Havana? | 21:13 |
| gordc | Alexei_987: in oslo.db or in ceilometer? | 21:13 |
| Alexei_987 | ceilometer | 21:13 |
| Alexei_987 | it's already working on 400 req/s even when cloud is idle | 21:13 |
| gordc | Alexei_987: we're not writing any mysql specific code. | 21:13 |
| _nadya_ | so we have 2 variants: 1. merge https://review.openstack.org/#/c/83215/ ASAP 2. revert multiple workers. We have no more variants. We have no time to repair SQL in 2 days | 21:13 |
| gordc | jd__: i'm not sure. i've never tried to be honest | 21:13 |
| Alexei_987 | ok sqlalchemy code | 21:14 |
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| jd__ | _nadya_: 1. does not fix the problem, it just hides it | 21:14 |
| jd__ | and 2 neither | 21:14 |
| _nadya_ | jd__: yep :D and? | 21:14 |
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| jd__ | if you start 2 ceilometer-collector processes – which always have been a valid use case, you will have the same errors | 21:15 |
| jd__ | because the SQL driver is probably doing something in a wrong way | 21:15 |
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| gordc | jd__: agreed. there's something wonky happening which doesn't let postgres work with multiple connection but let's mysql | 21:15 |
| Alexei_987 | how driver can affect separate processes? | 21:15 |
| jd__ | so it needs to be fixed – gordc what's the bug # if there's one actually? | 21:15 |
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| gordc | jd__: for postgres issue? there is none right now | 21:16 |
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| jd__ | I'm ok to try to target it at rc1 if somebod commits to fixing it | 21:16 |
| jd__ | otherwise it's pointless | 21:16 |
| eglynn | jd__: how conservative do we have to be about RC1? | 21:16 |
| eglynn | (i.e. treat it as effectively the final opportunity to get the above issues fixed?) | 21:16 |
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| gordc | jd__: i'm not sure we can fix it for rc1. | 21:16 |
| _nadya_ | I don't think it's possible to fix in 2 days | 21:16 |
| jd__ | eglynn: it should be final or that's not fair play | 21:17 |
| jd__ | ok | 21:17 |
| Alexei_987 | I propose to revert workers and I'll check this postgres issue :) | 21:17 |
| jd__ | so let's try to fix it someday, write a release not about that, and we'll backport the fix later | 21:17 |
| eglynn | jd__: discussion above sounds like early-cycle stuff than 11th hour cusp-of-the-deadline hustle | 21:17 |
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| gordc | revert or default to single worker? it's essentially same thing but allows flexibility to have multiple workers for mongo/mysql backend which appear to work fine. | 21:18 |
| Alexei_987 | mongo backend only consumes 10-20% of the cpu | 21:18 |
| gordc | i'm ok with revert if we want... just presenting alternative. | 21:18 |
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| gordc | Alexei_987: yeah. mysql is the real issue. | 21:19 |
| jd__ | and how reverting is going to make things work with 2 collectors running? | 21:19 |
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| Alexei_987 | jd__: it won't I just don't like adding things that we don't actually need | 21:19 |
| Alexei_987 | deadlock issue needs to be fixed separately | 21:19 |
| jd__ | I don't really care about what you think when it's subjective and not technical | 21:20 |
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| gordc | deadlock issue as in this patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/80461/ | 21:20 |
| jd__ | I just want this bug fixed, so if reverting is not going to help, there's no point | 21:20 |
| jd__ | gordc: it depends on something outdated | 21:21 |
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| gordc | Alexei_987, jd__: i think that patch should be pushed to post rc-1 with multiple connection fix. | 21:21 |
| jd__ | I'm ok to postone the fix if it's long to have it, we can document that it's not working | 21:22 |
| gordc | i'll red x my patches that should be moved to later. | 21:22 |
| _nadya_ | +1 | 21:22 |
| jd__ | gordc: could you at least open a bug and document it? | 21:22 |
| gordc | will do. | 21:22 |
| jd__ | I feeling bad talking about something we don't even have a record of | 21:22 |
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| eglynn | so what exactly is *not* going to work with RC1? (under the proposed approach) | 21:23 |
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| eglynn | I'm a bit lost in these options tro revert or default to single worker etc. | 21:23 |
| jd__ | eglynn: using PostgreSQL with more than one collector | 21:23 |
| eglynn | e.g. are we saying horizontal scaling of the collector is simply not possible currently with sqla? | 21:23 |
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| jd__ | eglynn: yep | 21:23 |
| jd__ | s/sqla/sqla-using-postgresql/ | 21:23 |
| eglynn | jd__: a-ha, but just when psql is the backend, not mysql? | 21:23 |
| eglynn | k, got it! | 21:23 |
| jd__ | so we can make postgresql work by setting the number of worker to 1 by default and documenting that postgresql shouldn't change anything and not run another copy | 21:24 |
| jd__ | that's a poor solution, but probably the best we can do in the timeframe | 21:24 |
| ildikov_ | and we will stay now at option 1, right? | 21:24 |
| jd__ | option 1 ? | 21:25 |
| eglynn | k, so that pretty much keeps sqla/postgres in the not-usable-for-prod category, right? | 21:25 |
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| jd__ | eglynn: clearly | 21:25 |
| jd__ | *sad face* | 21:25 |
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| ildikov_ | jd__: merge the default to 1 worker patch | 21:25 |
| _nadya_ | is mongo in prod category still? | 21:25 |
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| eglynn | _nadya_: as long as you're a licensing maverick ;) | 21:26 |
| jd__ | ildikov_: yes, as a temporary solution :( | 21:26 |
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| gordc | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+bug/1298073 | 21:26 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1298073 in ceilometer "postgres does not work with multiple connections" [High,Triaged] | 21:26 |
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| ildikov_ | jd__: ok :( | 21:26 |
| jd__ | thanks gordc | 21:26 |
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| jd__ | #topic Tempest integration | 21:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tempest integration (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:27 | |
| jd__ | _nadya_: enlighten us | 21:27 |
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| _nadya_ | what can I say? We have no Mongo. mySQL and Postgres fail on gating | 21:28 |
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| _nadya_ | and even anotification service was broken by infra-team | 21:28 |
| _nadya_ | repaired now | 21:28 |
| _nadya_ | I don't see any ability to add notification and pollster tests | 21:29 |
| gordc | _nadya_: i assume that merged succesfully because we have no tests against notificaiton? | 21:29 |
| _nadya_ | gordc: exactly | 21:29 |
| _nadya_ | so we have tests but we can't make it work | 21:30 |
| _nadya_ | so sad story :( | 21:30 |
| jd__ | what's blocking? | 21:30 |
| jd__ | MySQL shouldn't fail on gating :( | 21:30 |
| _nadya_ | Ceilometer processes notification 16 minutes | 21:30 |
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| _nadya_ | on mysql | 21:30 |
| _nadya_ | because of high load | 21:31 |
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| jd__ | ok | 21:31 |
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| _nadya_ | solution is to add Mongo-job | 21:31 |
| jd__ | mongo is not likely to happen soon indeed | 21:31 |
| _nadya_ | but everybody knows Sean's position | 21:31 |
| gordc | _nadya_: or streamline sql schema | 21:31 |
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| gordc | i think it's best to make adjustments to schema but that is not rc1 item. | 21:32 |
| jd__ | yes, I don't think we can do much right now | 21:32 |
| jd__ | let's try to think and prepare for Juno now :( | 21:32 |
| eglynn | _nadya_: 16 mins from receiving notification to persisting sample? | 21:32 |
| eglynn | _nadya_: or 16 mins from the notification being emitted by nova? | 21:33 |
| _nadya_ | and today I was playing with HBase. It shows the same results as Mongo (good perf) but I can't imagine how to push it on gating too | 21:33 |
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| _nadya_ | eglynn: between nova creates notifiation and Ceilometer starts to put it to database | 21:33 |
| eglynn | _nadya_: wow! ... are the Jenkins slaves chronicallly under-scaled/under-powered? | 21:34 |
| _nadya_ | jd__: I don't know, do we have any estimates from TC about Tempest? | 21:35 |
| eglynn | as in, are they a complete mismatch to the scale to be expected in a more realistic prod style deployment | 21:35 |
| jd__ | _nadya_: not yet | 21:35 |
| _nadya_ | jd__: maybe we should think about smth like fake-tests? I saw a lot of such test for other projects | 21:36 |
| jd__ | _nadya_: I don't know what would that be? | 21:36 |
| _nadya_ | jd__: that API return list | 21:36 |
| eglynn | _nadya_: would that cut the legs out from under the whole idea of Tempest? | 21:37 |
| eglynn | _nadya_: (i.e. non-faked integration tests) | 21:37 |
| _nadya_ | eglynn: ah, say it again in a different way :D | 21:37 |
| eglynn | _nadya_: would fake tests make Tempest kinda pointless? | 21:38 |
| eglynn | _nadya_: (if the point of Tempest is to test integration without the kind of fakery we use in the unit tests) | 21:38 |
| gordc | eglynn: i think it's the way tests are done. it spikes at certain points and from there it's just backlogged because mysql isn't writing fast enough. | 21:39 |
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| _nadya_ | eglynn: yep. but I'm afraid about TC only | 21:39 |
| _nadya_ | eglynn: I don't want to have such tests | 21:39 |
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| eglynn | _nadya_: TC == technical committee? | 21:39 |
| _nadya_ | eglynn: just thinking about variants | 21:39 |
| _nadya_ | eglynn: yep | 21:40 |
| eglynn | _nadya_: k, got it, thanks! | 21:40 |
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| eglynn | so could the underlying core problem here be simply that the Jenkins slaves on which Tempest run are just way too under-resourced? | 21:40 |
| _nadya_ | eglynn: there are several mailing threads about Tempest+Ceilometer, I will discuss with you tomorrow. Maybe I've missed smth | 21:41 |
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| eglynn | ... i.e. running in bigger instances types on faster h/w would resolve? | 21:41 |
| eglynn | ... /me prolly stating the obvious there | 21:41 |
| jd__ | eglynn: it seems to be a problem with the SQL driver again | 21:42 |
| eglynn | _nadya_: ... actually its prolly just me being still behind on email backlog | 21:42 |
| jd__ | not with the power available | 21:42 |
| eglynn | jd__: k | 21:42 |
| jd__ | let's move on for now | 21:42 |
| jd__ | #topic Release python-ceilometerclient? | 21:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Release python-ceilometerclient? (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:42 | |
| jd__ | I think you're on that eglynn? :) | 21:42 |
| eglynn | we'll be good to go with cutting 1.0.10 once the selectable aggregates patch lands | 21:42 |
| asalkeld | o/ | 21:42 |
| eglynn | https://review.openstack.org/80499 | 21:42 |
| jd__ | cool | 21:42 |
| eglynn | currently just a test coverage objection | 21:42 |
| eglynn | should be quick to resolve | 21:43 |
| jd__ | hi asalkeld | 21:43 |
| eglynn | ... so that 1.0.10 can coincide up with RC1 | 21:43 |
| eglynn | Angus hey! | 21:43 |
| jd__ | perfect timing :) | 21:43 |
| asalkeld | howdy | 21:43 |
| jd__ | #topic MongoDB licensing issues raised by the failed Marconi graduation | 21:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "MongoDB licensing issues raised by the failed Marconi graduation (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:43 | |
| jd__ | not a funny topic again | 21:43 |
| eglynn | :) | 21:43 |
| eglynn | so the withdrawal mail from the Marconi team put the problem thusly: | 21:44 |
| eglynn | "The drivers currently supported by the project don't cover some important cases related to deploying it. One of them solves a licensing issue but introduces a scale issue whereas the other one solves the scale issue and introduces a licensing issue." | 21:44 |
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| eglynn | the scaling/encumbered DB is mongodb | 21:44 |
| eglynn | the non-scaling/unencumered one is sqlalchemy | 21:44 |
| eglynn | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-March/030638.html | 21:44 |
| eglynn | so the $64k question is ... | 21:45 |
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| eglynn | is this licensing palaver around mongo also clear & present danger for our project? | 21:45 |
| eglynn | ... given that prod deployment options seem to be narrowing back to mongo | 21:45 |
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| eglynn | fair enough that Marconi met with disapproval for various other reasons | 21:46 |
| ildikov_ | do we have a plan B, if Mongo is not an option because of licensing? | 21:46 |
| _nadya_ | HBase :) | 21:46 |
| jd__ | I think I don't want to answer that and would wait for the TC to discuss about it | 21:46 |
| jd__ | IANAL | 21:46 |
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| eglynn | I hasten to translate: "I ain't a lawyer" | 21:47 |
| jd__ | that's it :) | 21:47 |
| ildikov_ | jd__: IANAL either, I just thought that it is better to ask this before, than after :( | 21:47 |
| eglynn | yeah fair enough | 21:47 |
| jd__ | yeah sure ildikov_ :) | 21:47 |
| eglynn | if the concern was obvious FUD-throwing I wouldn't be worried | 21:47 |
| ildikov_ | jd__: what about the Cassandra BP of yours? | 21:48 |
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| jd__ | ildikov_: it's not going to be more than what I posted for the time being | 21:48 |
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| _nadya_ | Looks like I need to create demo of HBase to show that it works... | 21:48 |
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| ildikov_ | jd__: ok | 21:49 |
| eglynn | jd__: is mongo licensing on the TC agenda in the near term do you know? | 21:49 |
| jd__ | eglynn: no idea | 21:49 |
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| jd__ | ttx: ^ | 21:49 |
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| jd__ | #topic Periodic checkupdate.sh failures on the gate | 21:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Periodic checkupdate.sh failures on the gate (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:50 | |
| ildikov_ | _nadya_: I just tried to ask about every option, I'm not against HBase :) | 21:50 |
| jd__ | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+bug/1297999 | 21:50 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1297999 in ceilometer "gate failures due to tools/config/check_uptodate.sh" [Undecided,In progress] | 21:50 |
| jd__ | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1268614 | 21:50 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1268614 in cinder "pep8 gating fails due to tools/config/check_uptodate.sh" [Critical,Fix released] | 21:50 |
| ildikov_ | I included the latest bug report and an earlier one | 21:50 |
| _nadya_ | ildikov_: :) | 21:50 |
| jd__ | the failure is due to our inclusion of keystoneclient | 21:51 |
| ildikov_ | I have a fix with two patch sets, the first fixed the ceilometer.conf.sample, the second one currently deletes the checkupdate.sh from tox.ini | 21:51 |
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| jd__ | the thing is that this config file should be built at compile/installation time and not checked into git | 21:51 |
| ildikov_ | the second one was the suggestion from gordc | 21:51 |
| jd__ | I think it's better to have the gate fails than an out of date conf | 21:51 |
| jd__ | or find a way to stop putting this file into git | 21:52 |
| ildikov_ | nova just did the same thing and including the generate-sample.sh into tox.ini | 21:52 |
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| jd__ | ildikov_: so they're not putting the sample into git now? | 21:52 |
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| ildikov_ | jd__: I meant that they removed this checkupdate.sh from tox | 21:52 |
| jd__ | ok | 21:52 |
| eglynn | surely the gate failing stops everything in its tracks? | 21:52 |
| jd__ | eglynn: yes | 21:53 |
| gordc | eglynn: yep. everything is blocked | 21:53 |
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| eglynn | would not regenerating until RC1 be acceptable if we know no *new* config is added by any remaining icehouse patches? | 21:53 |
| jd__ | so it's either the developers are blocked from time to time, or the users have crappy sample configuration files | 21:53 |
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| jd__ | eglynn: it messes badly the diff most of the time :( | 21:53 |
| ildikov_ | jd__: tox.ini is the following in case of nova: #link https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/tox.ini | 21:53 |
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| jd__ | ildikov_: I see | 21:53 |
| jd__ | they went backward on that | 21:54 |
| jd__ | can't blame here – I'm the one responsible for the check_uptodate in the first place | 21:54 |
| gordc | this happens more than i like. i like not checking sample to git but doesn't that mean we're just going to remove it from tox.ini as well? | 21:54 |
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| jd__ | the point was to make people stop puting these default files in git, but it seems it didn't help :D | 21:54 |
| gordc | i'd be game on turning it off for rc1 but i guess we'll eventually need to sync it up. | 21:55 |
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| ildikov_ | jd__: lol :) | 21:55 |
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| jd__ | good with me | 21:55 |
| eglynn | gordc: yep, /me thinking also pragmatic short-term disable to drain the queue | 21:56 |
| jd__ | I vote for whatever works the best | 21:56 |
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| * gordc already +2 turning it off patch. | 21:56 | |
| jd__ | #topic Open discussion | 21:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:57 | |
| jd__ | we have 3 minutes left if anything | 21:57 |
| ildikov_ | gordc: cool, thanks :) | 21:57 |
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| _nadya_ | oh | 21:57 |
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| _nadya_ | any good news :)? | 21:57 |
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| jd__ | doesn't look so :) | 22:00 |
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| jd__ | not yet at least | 22:00 |
| ildikov_ | _nadya_: it seems that the good news is there is no more bad one :) | 22:00 |
| eglynn | _nadya_: ... well Ireland beat France at the rugby, does that count as good news? ;) | 22:00 |
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| _nadya_ | eglynn: hehe :) | 22:00 |
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| * jd__ is not sure | 22:00 | |
| ildikov_ | eglynn: \o/ :) | 22:00 |
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| eglynn | ... /me had to get the dig in somehow ;) | 22:01 |
| eglynn | ... 20 years of hurt and all that | 22:01 |
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| jd__ | #endmeeting | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Mar 26 22:01:42 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:01 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2014/ceilometer.2014-03-26-21.01.html | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2014/ceilometer.2014-03-26-21.01.txt | 22:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2014/ceilometer.2014-03-26-21.01.log.html | 22:01 |
| jd__ | happy hacking fellow stackers | 22:01 |
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