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| gmurphy | clear | 01:56 |
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| yamahata | hi | 05:01 |
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| yamahata | #startmeeting neutron/servicevm | 05:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 25 05:02:37 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yamahata. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 05:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 05:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron/servicevm)" | 05:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_servicevm' | 05:02 |
| yamahata | hello. Does the new time slot work for you? | 05:03 |
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| s3wong | I believe people from US East Coast made a comment on the ML | 05:03 |
| yamahata | very sorry for those. | 05:04 |
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| yamahata | #topic current-status | 05:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "current-status (Meeting topic: neutron/servicevm)" | 05:05 | |
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| yamahata | I summarized blueprints, patches at the page | 05:06 |
| yamahata | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ServiceVM | 05:06 |
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| yamahata | No patch was updated since the last week. | 05:06 |
| s3wong | yamahata: yes, I am still in the middle of reviewing the APIs; sorry for the delay | 05:07 |
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| yamahata | s3wong: no problem. | 05:07 |
| yamahata | any questions on design/patches? | 05:07 |
| yamahata | I'm going to update the patches this week or the next week. | 05:08 |
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| yamahata | It will include drivers/guest agent for lbaas | 05:08 |
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| s3wong | yamahata: good - it is good to see a sample service using this framework | 05:09 |
| yamahata | s3wong: it just run haproxy in guest vm instead of namespace in network-node. | 05:10 |
| yamahata | openstack RPC needs to be proxyied into tenant network from openstack management network | 05:10 |
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| s3wong | yamahata: is there going to be a pre-package image? | 05:11 |
| yamahata | s3wong: hopefully. I'm working on it right now. | 05:11 |
| yamahata | image + devstack patch | 05:12 |
| s3wong | yamahata: interesting. LBaaS haproxy installation process was simply apt-get install haproxy on host OS | 05:12 |
| s3wong | so now for service VM, we need to specify the image location? | 05:13 |
| yamahata | s3wong: yes. At first we need register images as usual. And then register those ids for image to neutron. | 05:13 |
| yamahata | The framework uses nova-client to boot VM with a given image | 05:14 |
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| s3wong | yamahata: is the image id registeration to Neutron automatically or manual (by tenants?)? | 05:15 |
| yamahata | In theory, same work flow can be applied for other service like router, firewall | 05:15 |
| yamahata | s3wong: It's manual at the moment. | 05:15 |
| s3wong | yamahata: OK | 05:16 |
| yamahata | s3wong: automation is desirable. But not sure it should be in this framework or by other external tool. | 05:17 |
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| s3wong | yamahata: sure, I am fine with it for initial implementation | 05:18 |
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| yamahata | any other questions? | 05:19 |
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| s3wong | yamahata: will look into the code further | 05:19 |
| yamahata | I see. | 05:19 |
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| yamahata | #open discussion | 05:20 |
| yamahata | other subteam are concerned about servicevm. advanced-service-requirement and group-policy | 05:20 |
| yamahata | It's important to cooperate with them | 05:21 |
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| s3wong | yamahata: I am in both advanced-service and group-policy team - what is the primary concern you hear about? | 05:21 |
| yamahata | s3wong: nothing special at the moment. | 05:21 |
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| s3wong | in group-policy we haven't really gotten into service yet | 05:21 |
| yamahata | Unfortunately I can't attend their IRC meeting due to its time slots. | 05:21 |
| s3wong | and in advanced service we had been discussing flavor and service context | 05:22 |
| yamahata | I'm following their discussion via logs. | 05:22 |
| s3wong | yamahata: I was going to say - even for a West coast person like me, it is now 10:22pm | 05:22 |
| s3wong | yamahata: so you may find it difficult for others in US to join this meeting actively | 05:22 |
| yamahata | s3wong: Right. such thing is inevitable. | 05:23 |
| yamahata | So when there is a topic that is important for servicevm, please let me know. then I'll try to attend. | 05:24 |
| s3wong | yamahata: sure | 05:24 |
| yamahata | another concern is router vm patch | 05:25 |
| s3wong | yamahata: please also let me know if there is anything you need from either group-policy side or advanced service side (which I would imagine you need things from advanced service side like service insertion via service context) | 05:25 |
| yamahata | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/cisco-config-agent | 05:25 |
| yamahata | s3wong: thanks, will do. | 05:25 |
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| yamahata | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/cisco-routing-service-vm | 05:26 |
| yamahata | Their patches essentially do similar thing. So the patches(theirs and mine) should converge somehow | 05:26 |
| yamahata | at some point | 05:27 |
| s3wong | yamahata: do you plan to bundle L3 agent into a service VM too? | 05:27 |
| yamahata | s3wong: That's the plan | 05:27 |
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| yamahata | s3wong: no, I mean lbaas-agent to bundle. | 05:27 |
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| yamahata | s3wong: for l3-agent, it's another story. | 05:28 |
| s3wong | yamahata: yeah, who wants l3-agent :-) | 05:28 |
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| yamahata | s3wong: the planned image would include lbaas-agent with haproxy | 05:29 |
| s3wong | yamahata: makes sense | 05:29 |
| yamahata | hopefully some startup scripts. | 05:30 |
| s3wong | yamahata: yeah, if it is meant for haproxy only image, some components should be spawned either in inittab or one of the Sxx scripts | 05:31 |
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| yamahata | okay. any topic to discuss? | 05:33 |
| s3wong | yamahata: I am good | 05:34 |
| yamahata | thanks. Since I plan to post new patches, let's have the meeting the next week. | 05:35 |
| yamahata | #endmeeting | 05:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 05:35 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 25 05:35:35 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 05:35 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_servicevm/2014/neutron_servicevm.2014-03-25-05.02.html | 05:35 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_servicevm/2014/neutron_servicevm.2014-03-25-05.02.txt | 05:35 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_servicevm/2014/neutron_servicevm.2014-03-25-05.02.log.html | 05:35 |
| s3wong | yamahata: thanks! | 05:36 |
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| openstackstatus | NOTICE: the gerrit event stream is currently hung, blocking all testing. troubleshooting is in progress (next update at 14:00 utc) | 13:21 |
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| sc68cal | #startmeeting #neutron_ipv6 | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 25 14:01:21 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sc68cal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: #neutron_ipv6)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to '_neutron_ipv6' | 14:01 |
| sc68cal | #endmeeting | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 25 14:01:47 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/_neutron_ipv6/2014/_neutron_ipv6.2014-03-25-14.01.html | 14:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/_neutron_ipv6/2014/_neutron_ipv6.2014-03-25-14.01.txt | 14:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/_neutron_ipv6/2014/_neutron_ipv6.2014-03-25-14.01.log.html | 14:01 |
| sc68cal | sorry, typo | 14:01 |
| sc68cal | #startmeeting neutron_ipv6 | 14:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 25 14:02:03 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sc68cal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ipv6' | 14:02 |
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| xuhanp | hello, sc68cal | 14:02 |
| sc68cal | Hello everyone | 14:02 |
| aveiga | hello | 14:02 |
| baoli | Hi | 14:02 |
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| sc68cal | So - we are currently nearing RC1 | 14:03 |
| sc68cal | so current | 14:03 |
| sc68cal | so currently most of the things getting merged are for existing bugs | 14:04 |
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| xuhanp | sc68cal, I think we need some core member's attention on those bugs :-) | 14:05 |
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| sc68cal | xuhanp: agreed - I was hoping we could get your patch merged | 14:05 |
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| sc68cal | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/72252/2 Permit RAs from known routers | 14:06 |
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| xuhanp | sc68cal, I kind of worried comments will come late and then we won't have time to address them all. | 14:06 |
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| xuhanp | so should we send a email to ML to get them reviewed or just ping some core members on IRC? | 14:07 |
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| sc68cal | probably ping on IRC | 14:08 |
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| xuhanp | sc68cal, Ok. sound good | 14:08 |
| sc68cal | I didn't get a chance to talk IPv6 at yesterday's main meeting, to bring it up | 14:08 |
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| sc68cal | In the meantime, if everyone could take a look at the review, that would be helpful | 14:10 |
| sc68cal | xuhanp: I saw you got bit by a gate bug, we should probably do a recheck | 14:10 |
| xuhanp | sc68cal, yep. I am not sure why comment can try a new Jenkins job. | 14:11 |
| xuhanp | s/try/trigger | 14:11 |
| sc68cal | xuhanp: the Elastic Recheck comment has the format for triggering | 14:11 |
| sc68cal | "recheck bug 1288918" | 14:12 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1288918 in tempest "tempest.api.object_storage.test_account_quotas_negative.AccountQuotasNegativeTest:test_upload_large_object" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1288918 | 14:12 |
| xuhanp | yep. but there is no recheck between the two Jenkins especially when previous one was successful | 14:12 |
| xuhanp | anyway, I rechecked that bug again after the failure. | 14:13 |
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| sc68cal | ok - just post a comment in your review to have it re-run jenkins | 14:14 |
| sc68cal | that -1 due to a gate bug is probably what is keeping core reviewers from looking at the patch | 14:14 |
| xuhanp | sc68cal, thanks | 14:14 |
| sc68cal | Do we have any other reviews that are going to try and make RC1? | 14:15 |
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| xuhanp | sc68cal, I hope the fix which trigger provider rule when router update can be reviewed as well. | 14:16 |
| xuhanp | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/80932/ | 14:16 |
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| sc68cal | perfect, I've added myself to that review | 14:18 |
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| sc68cal | xuhanp: for that review, a couple of the unit tests, for the plugins appear to have a lot in common | 14:20 |
| sc68cal | could they be folded into test_sg.SecurityGroupDBTestCase ? | 14:20 |
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| sc68cal | or do they all have subtle differences? | 14:21 |
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| xuhanp | the changed code is trigger from the different plugin | 14:21 |
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| xuhanp | trying to open the link | 14:22 |
| sc68cal | ok - we can take it off line, I'll poke at it a bit | 14:23 |
| xuhanp | sc68cal, sure | 14:23 |
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| sc68cal | Do we have any new bugs or blueprints to discuss? | 14:24 |
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| sc68cal | ok - i'll turn it over to open discussion if there are none | 14:25 |
| sc68cal | #topic open discussion | 14:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:26 | |
| xuhanp | I have a question about Shi Xiong's code change | 14:26 |
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| xuhanp | actually two questions. | 14:26 |
| xuhanp | 1. is dnsmasq for each subnet needed? | 14:27 |
| xuhanp | ipv6 uses dnsmasq for each network I think | 14:27 |
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| sc68cal | I think I saw a reviewer comment bringing up that point recently | 14:28 |
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| sc68cal | it doesn't look like shshang is here today | 14:29 |
| xuhanp | yep. we can discuss offline too. | 14:29 |
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| sc68cal | It may be worth discussing if it is able to be split into pieces | 14:30 |
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| sc68cal | 40 reviwer comments on the most recent patch, in just one file. A bit overwhelming | 14:30 |
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| xuhanp | sc68cal, yep. we may need to reply the comments before submit a new patch. otherwise people will feel like their comments are not addressed | 14:31 |
| baoli | xuhanp, I did a little research on that. A broadcast to one qr-xxx port will be heard by all the VMs that are on different subnets from the same network, with the ovs plugin. | 14:31 |
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| xuhanp | baoli, will that be a problem for current dhcp port? | 14:32 |
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| baoli | so this relates to your question about one dnsmasq per qr-xxx port (or per subnet) | 14:33 |
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| xuhanp | baoli, yep. Got you about that. what about current IPv4 case? | 14:33 |
| sc68cal | We may need to determine if it is possible to have multiple subnets on the same network | 14:34 |
| baoli | This also raises a question about multiple ipv6 subnets per network, what are the relationships between the subnets | 14:34 |
| aveiga | technically, it should be possible to have multiple v6 subnets | 14:34 |
| baoli | with ipv4, dnsmasq is running in the dhcp namespace, and no slaac! | 14:34 |
| aveiga | you should be able to receive multiple RAs and assign an addr per advertised scope | 14:35 |
| xuhanp | aveiga, you mean multiple addr on one interface, right? | 14:36 |
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| aveiga | yes | 14:36 |
| aveiga | the problem would be showing neutron that you have multiple | 14:37 |
| aveiga | can the port show the extras? | 14:37 |
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| sc68cal | aveiga: yes | 14:37 |
| aveiga | then you should be fine | 14:37 |
| sc68cal | It already does for v4 + single v6 address | 14:37 |
| aveiga | right | 14:37 |
| aveiga | sounds like it's just a matter of testing.. | 14:37 |
| sc68cal | but we may need to tweak a bit for slaac calculations | 14:37 |
| sc68cal | make sue it calculates a EUI per subnet | 14:38 |
| sc68cal | *sure | 14:38 |
| aveiga | yup | 14:38 |
| xuhanp | also I guess we need to change the current logic when VM is assigned with subnet's IP. | 14:38 |
| xuhanp | I think neutron select one subnet as VM's IP | 14:39 |
| xuhanp | different from nova-network | 14:39 |
| xuhanp | when --nic net-id= is not specified | 14:39 |
| xuhanp | to nova boot | 14:39 |
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| xuhanp | again, this need testing | 14:40 |
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| sc68cal | HenryG put together some tests in tempest for testing IPv6 subnets | 14:40 |
| sc68cal | so - we may be able to put some tests into tempest for two v6 subnets on the same network | 14:40 |
| sc68cal | see what the current behavior is - and then push code to fix if needed | 14:41 |
| xuhanp | sc68cal, sounds great | 14:41 |
| baoli | a VM receives one ip from each address family | 14:42 |
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| sc68cal | Ok - if we don't have anything else to discuss - I can give everyone back 15 minutes | 14:47 |
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| sc68cal | alright everyone - see you next week. I'm always on #openstack-neutron during US EST | 14:49 |
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| sc68cal | #endmeeting | 14:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:49 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 25 14:49:52 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:49 |
| baoli | see you | 14:49 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-03-25-14.02.html | 14:49 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-03-25-14.02.txt | 14:49 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-03-25-14.02.log.html | 14:49 |
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| n0ano | #startmeeting gantt | 14:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 25 14:59:19 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 14:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'gantt' | 14:59 |
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| n0ano | anyone here to talk about the scheduler? | 14:59 |
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| bauzas | o/ | 15:01 |
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| bauzas | not a lot of people around :) | 15:02 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, might be just you & me, looks like you wore them out last week :-) | 15:02 |
| bauzas | :-) | 15:02 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: have you read the minutes ? | 15:03 |
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| bauzas | I promise I haven't scared them :D | 15:03 |
| n0ano | yeah, last week, I've forgotten (incipient Alzheimer's) were there any open questions? | 15:03 |
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| n0ano | one question I had, looks like you abandoned the client patch just to restart it again, any particular reason for not just updating the original patch? | 15:04 |
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| bauzas | no no no | 15:04 |
| bauzas | I'm still continuing to work on the client | 15:05 |
| bauzas | but after discussing with -infra guys, seems like drafts don't like rebases | 15:05 |
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| bauzas | hence I created another patch | 15:05 |
| bauzas | WIP this time | 15:05 |
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| n0ano | well, if that's just a process thing that's fine | 15:06 |
| bauzas | because I was unable to amend the existing one (gerrit was refusing to update master) | 15:06 |
| bauzas | the bp whiteboard is modified accordingly | 15:06 |
| bauzas | I removed all mentions of the previous patch | 15:06 |
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| n0ano | Aah, gerrit, it's caused me pain in the past, I understand completely (I had a linked set of patches and gerrit lost the links, I was not happy :-( | 15:07 |
| bauzas | yey | 15:07 |
| bauzas | was pretty weird | 15:07 |
| bauzas | well, to be honest, anteaya told me to stop submitting drafts | 15:07 |
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| bauzas | that works, but that doesn't like rebases | 15:08 |
| bauzas | anyway | 15:08 |
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| bauzas | maybe we can officially start ? :) | 15:08 |
| bauzas | and discuss about the topics ? | 15:08 |
| n0ano | the other thing you can do is create private update and send links out to interested parties, that would avoid some of those issues | 15:08 |
| n0ano | for sure but with just the two of us it's pretty easy... | 15:08 |
| anteaya | n0ano: outside the meeting if you continue to have difficulty with gerrit, talk to me in -infra | 15:09 |
| bauzas | just a matter of reading minutes without looking at the detailed logs :) | 15:09 |
| anteaya | gerrit should be losing links | 15:09 |
| anteaya | shouldn't | 15:09 |
| n0ano | anteaya, tnx, I'll remember that in future, I worked around the problem and hope not to run into it again | 15:09 |
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| anteaya | n0ano: it might be a workflow issue | 15:10 |
| n0ano | anteaya, I always suspect cockpit error, I have a slightly strange setup so I blame me on first look | 15:10 |
| digambar | Hey guys, one question, if need to sask omething on the node so which node we follow for daily issues ?? | 15:10 |
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| bauzas | digambar: I don't understand the question :) | 15:11 |
| n0ano | bauzas, +1 | 15:11 |
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| digambar | if need to ask osmething on the node so which node we follow for daily issues ?? | 15:11 |
| bauzas | n0ano: so, about scheduler forklift | 15:11 |
| digambar | something** | 15:11 |
| bauzas | digambar: still unclear to me, the question is :) | 15:11 |
| n0ano | digambar, what do you mean by node and what do you mean by daily issues? | 15:12 |
| bauzas | digambar: what do you mean about node ? | 15:12 |
| anteaya | n0ano: this is our recommended workflow: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Gerrit_Workflow | 15:12 |
| bauzas | ^^ | 15:12 |
| bauzas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82778/ | 15:12 |
| n0ano | anteaya, I tried to follow that but I'm guessing I messed up (I had a linked set of patches so that's a little odd) | 15:12 |
| bauzas | scheduler client patch | 15:12 |
| bauzas | still chasing some bugs | 15:13 |
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| anteaya | n0ano: find me in -infra later and we can walk through it together | 15:13 |
| digambar | If I want to ask to something about the patches & bugs, so where I can connect you guys | 15:13 |
| bauzas | digambar: you can reach us in #openstack-nova just by prefixing your question with our IRC nicknames :) | 15:14 |
| n0ano | digambar, I think you mean `contact you guys' and the first option is the dev mailing list, that should be your first choice | 15:14 |
| digambar | yes | 15:14 |
| bauzas | digambar: I don't promise to be 24x7 up there thou | 15:14 |
| digambar | Yeah, I understand | 15:14 |
| n0ano | I'm always on #openstack-dev but I'll add #openstack-nova also | 15:14 |
| bauzas | I also proposed a bp in nova-specs : | 15:15 |
| digambar | cool, Thank you :) | 15:15 |
| n0ano | the not there 24x7 is why I always suggest the mailing list first | 15:15 |
| bauzas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82133/ | 15:15 |
| n0ano | anyway | 15:15 |
| n0ano | #topic code forklist | 15:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "code forklist (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:15 | |
| bauzas | yey ! | 15:15 |
| bauzas | so, I was saying | 15:15 |
| bauzas | good progress on it, still chasing bugs | 15:15 |
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| n0ano | I was going to ask, do you want a review or do you want to wait until after the bug hunt? | 15:16 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I think it's worth waiting for the new patchset | 15:16 |
| bauzas | n0ano: not that hard to fix | 15:16 |
| n0ano | NP, procrastination is my middle name | 15:16 |
| bauzas | :-) | 15:17 |
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| n0ano | given this is still a WIP I assume that, even after the bug hunt, this won't be ready to merge in yet, right? | 15:17 |
| bauzas | so, again, please note that https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82778/ is the new review for the sched client | 15:17 |
| bauzas | n0ano: we can't | 15:17 |
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| bauzas | until Juno | 15:17 |
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| bauzas | we're currently in FF | 15:18 |
| bauzas | the idea is to quickly raise the bar on the client for discussing it at the summit | 15:18 |
| n0ano | that's a given but after FF will this be ready, you still need some unit tests right? | 15:18 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: yup | 15:18 |
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| bauzas | we also need to have the bp validated | 15:19 |
| bauzas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82133 | 15:19 |
| bauzas | you can review that one now | 15:19 |
| n0ano | sure, I'll add that to my todo right now | 15:19 |
| bauzas | it's flagged as WIP too because of the the current nova-specs template under change | 15:20 |
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| bauzas | I have to check status of it, and either promote it or produce a new patchset | 15:20 |
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| bauzas | btw, I spoke last week about http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/80 | 15:21 |
| toan_tran | bauzas: just one quick question | 15:21 |
| bauzas | this is the placeholder for discussing the BP | 15:21 |
| bauzas | toan_tran: sure | 15:21 |
| digambar | Hey bauzas | 15:22 |
| toan_tran | what relation does this sch python lib have with nova? | 15:22 |
| digambar | for the scheduler lib, can help you on that ? | 15:22 |
| bauzas | toan_tran: that's the necessary step before forking code to gantt | 15:22 |
| bauzas | digambar: I need some reviews on it yes | 15:23 |
| digambar | yes | 15:23 |
| bauzas | digambar: but I don't think it requires another contributor | 15:23 |
| digambar | ok | 15:23 |
| n0ano | bauzas, we should probably propose a session to talk about gantt APIs also, I think that's another area people need to address | 15:23 |
| bauzas | that's quite straightforward | 15:23 |
| digambar | any other work for gantt, I can look at ? | 15:23 |
| digambar | 1. I'll review it | 15:24 |
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| digambar | 2. I am looking for ?? | 15:24 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: which APIs are you talking about ? | 15:24 |
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| bauzas | REST or RPC ? | 15:24 |
| toan_tran | digambar: try https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/icehouse-external-scheduler | 15:24 |
| digambar | ok | 15:24 |
| toan_tran | digambar: a little messy, but look at the end | 15:25 |
| bauzas | but indeed, we need to speak about step #3 | 15:25 |
| digambar | okay | 15:25 |
| n0ano | bauzas, both, the RPC should just be a continuation of the current Nova ones but, for generalizing to support cinder & neutron & ... we should see if we need something more | 15:25 |
| bauzas | n0ano: that's something we need to tackle at the summit yes | 15:25 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I can propose a session | 15:26 |
| n0ano | bauzas, if you want, go ahead | 15:26 |
| bauzas | ok will do | 15:26 |
| bauzas | that's because we need to make sure what will be the interfaces in the next future | 15:26 |
| n0ano | I don't think we need a session on forklift per se, it's pretty obvious what needs to be done there, it's more mechanical | 15:26 |
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| toan_tran | n0ano: can we organise some section with cinder & neutron folks? | 15:27 |
| bauzas | n0ano: well, the client lib is quite straightforward, I agree | 15:27 |
| bauzas | toan_tran: I don't think that's mature for Juno | 15:27 |
| bauzas | but we can get feedback | 15:27 |
| toan_tran | bauzas: well, it's better if we have some initial though on that | 15:27 |
| n0ano | toan_tran, I would hope that some of the the cinder & neutron people would come to the gantt session | 15:28 |
| bauzas | toan_tran: I still persist that's a bit early :) | 15:28 |
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| toan_tran | I don't want we follow it to the end and others'd say that it's too complicated for them | 15:28 |
| bauzas | Juno will be focused on having the scheduler isolated from Nova | 15:28 |
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| bauzas | that's K where we should focus on integrating other projects | 15:28 |
| n0ano | bauzas, a bit but getting other ideas early would be good, especially when talking about APIs | 15:28 |
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| toan_tran | bauzas: of'course but to tackle RPC | 15:29 |
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| toan_tran | I'm afraid that we focus too much into nova | 15:29 |
| bauzas | so that means the discussion is about the interfaces | 15:29 |
| toan_tran | at some point we forget the generalization of gantt | 15:29 |
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| bauzas | hence what we discussed previously :) | 15:29 |
| bauzas | I will propose a session wide enough to get cinder and neutron folks joining in | 15:30 |
| toan_tran | bauzas: +1 | 15:30 |
| n0ano | bauzas, +1 | 15:30 |
| bauzas | ok | 15:30 |
| n0ano | we seem to be in violent agreement :-) | 15:30 |
| bauzas | about the forklift by itself, there are some concerns about the service table and other pure technical aspects | 15:30 |
| bauzas | that's only related to nova | 15:31 |
| n0ano | I think those will resolve themselves, once we get the interfaces clean enough that we can split out the current code | 15:31 |
| bauzas | that's why I think the forklift is not that trivial to miss a summit session | 15:31 |
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| n0ano | not sure what concensus we need on it though, it's more a `just do it' problem. | 15:32 |
| bauzas | n0ano: we need to decouple DB tables that are not related to scheduler | 15:33 |
| n0ano | but why argue over this, let's just propose a forklist session and see if it's accepted and who comes | 15:33 |
| bauzas | n0ano: +1 :) | 15:33 |
| bauzas | ok, I'm done with that topic | 15:33 |
| n0ano | since you've signed up for 2 sessions, I'll propose a forklift one | 15:33 |
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| bauzas | there is already one ;) | 15:34 |
| bauzas | http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/80 | 15:34 |
| n0ano | I'm constantly out of the loop (Alzheimers again), that's fine | 15:34 |
| bauzas | the one missing is the one about future Gantt interfaces | 15:34 |
| n0ano | bauzas, BTW the Juno summit is in Atlanta, will you be able to come? | 15:35 |
| bauzas | n0ano: yup | 15:35 |
| n0ano | excellent | 15:35 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I'm moving from one company to another | 15:35 |
| bauzas | n0ano: and the move will be done at summit time | 15:36 |
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| bauzas | anyway | 15:36 |
| n0ano | anyway | 15:36 |
| bauzas | :-) | 15:36 |
| n0ano | I think we've beaten this particular dead horse | 15:36 |
| n0ano | #opens | 15:36 |
| bauzas | nah | 15:36 |
| bauzas | nah | 15:36 |
| bauzas | no-db :) | 15:36 |
| bauzas | I have something to say :D | 15:37 |
| n0ano | #topic no-db | 15:37 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, go for it | 15:37 |
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| bauzas | so, about no-db, I spoke with boris-42 | 15:37 |
| bauzas | this morning | 15:37 |
| bauzas | (well, this EU TZ morning :-) ) | 15:37 |
| bauzas | so, he will propose a session on no-db scheduler | 15:38 |
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| bauzas | we discussed on that thread last week | 15:38 |
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| bauzas | about the interest of having memcached or tooz | 15:38 |
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| bauzas | so, there will be opportunity for discussing about the implementation | 15:39 |
| n0ano | never heard of tooz, I would have thought we just do memcached to start and then think about alternatives if needed | 15:39 |
| toan_tran | n0ano: +1 | 15:39 |
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| bauzas | at the moment, there is no progress on the BP, as the resource was defocused from that BP | 15:40 |
| bauzas | n0ano: that's what we agreed last week :-) | 15:40 |
| n0ano | I just wanted to see progress, with patches up for review I hate to see them just get ignored | 15:41 |
| bauzas | but that's worth discussing with tooz contributors | 15:41 |
| n0ano | so, bottom line, don't expect any progress on no-db until after the summit | 15:42 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I don't think there will be progress until Juno | 15:42 |
| bauzas | +1 | 15:42 |
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| toan_tran | bauzas: last time I heard | 15:42 |
| toan_tran | there was a prob with no-db implementation | 15:42 |
| toan_tran | did he said what it was? | 15:43 |
| bauzas | toan_tran: the only problem I heard of from boris-42 is resource :) | 15:43 |
| toan_tran | it's the design problem or just implementation's technical detail ? | 15:43 |
| n0ano | toan_tran, scalability issue, they were working on debugging it, looks like they don't have to resources to fix it right nwo | 15:43 |
| bauzas | toan_tran: there is no people working on atm | 15:43 |
| bauzas | n0ano: +1 | 15:43 |
| toan_tran | ok | 15:44 |
| bauzas | hence the discussion is about the memcached use | 15:44 |
| bauzas | we should have a flexible backend | 15:44 |
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| bauzas | with use of stevedore's plugins for implementation | 15:44 |
| bauzas | so that we could either use a memcached driver or any other | 15:45 |
| bauzas | hence the discussion around tooz | 15:45 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, no argument, which is why I'd implement memcached first and then look into other backends | 15:45 |
| bauzas | https://github.com/stackforge/tooz | 15:45 |
| bauzas | n0ano: that would be worth having a stevedore namespace for this | 15:45 |
| bauzas | with proper interfaces | 15:45 |
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| bauzas | the few I saw from the bp was ok with that | 15:46 |
| bauzas | but we just need to make sure it will still be the case in the next implementations | 15:46 |
| n0ano | well, there'll be a session at Juno, should be a lively one | 15:46 |
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| bauzas | :D | 15:47 |
| n0ano | anything else on no-db | 15:47 |
| bauzas | nope | 15:47 |
| n0ano | OK, once more | 15:47 |
| n0ano | #topic opens | 15:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:47 | |
| bauzas | :-) | 15:47 |
| toan_tran | I have some question :) | 15:47 |
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| n0ano | anything new? | 15:47 |
| n0ano | toan_tran, go for it | 15:47 |
| toan_tran | has anyone ever measured the scheduling performance? | 15:47 |
| bauzas | yeah, I have a remark about the current gantt repo | 15:47 |
| bauzas | toan_tran: ask boris-42 | 15:48 |
| bauzas | toan_tran: they made some benchs using Rally | 15:48 |
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| toan_tran | well, they promised to have data published :) | 15:48 |
| toan_tran | but I haven't seen one :) | 15:48 |
| bauzas | open a thread in -dev ML then :) | 15:49 |
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| toan_tran | bauzas: +1 | 15:49 |
| n0ano | toan_tran, check out https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_DRv7it_mwalEZzLy5WO92TJcummpmWL4NWsWf0UWiQ/edit?pli=1#heading=h.6ixj0ctv4rwu | 15:49 |
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| toan_tran | it does not have data | 15:50 |
| bauzas | n0ano: great document, missed it, thanks | 15:50 |
| n0ano | toan_tran, what about fig. 1? | 15:50 |
| toan_tran | n0ano: only on compute_get_all() | 15:51 |
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| bauzas | could we tackle that on -dev ? | 15:51 |
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| toan_tran | bauzas: OK | 15:51 |
| bauzas | I have something to discuss about gantt repo | 15:51 |
| n0ano | then, as bauzas said, raise it on -dev (be sure to CC boris) | 15:51 |
| n0ano | bauzas, go for it | 15:51 |
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| bauzas | ok, at the moment, the gantt repo is a bit confusing people | 15:52 |
| bauzas | as it was generated a while ago | 15:52 |
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| bauzas | and as the efforts are now going to nova first | 15:52 |
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| bauzas | I'm just saying that I think we should update the README file in gantt stating that this is currently not an official repo, much likely related to a sandbox | 15:53 |
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| bauzas | I can propose a patch on it | 15:53 |
| bauzas | and we also need to review the reviewers :D | 15:53 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, sure, that's a good idea | 15:53 |
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| bauzas | russellb raised that concern earlier in the day | 15:53 |
| n0ano | current reviewers are the nova core team, it's easy enough to create our own team, we should probably discuss that at Juno | 15:54 |
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| bauzas | (11:06:52) russellb: i'm not sure if it can actually be removed, but at a minimum, we can push a commit that removes all code and leaves a README | 15:54 |
| russellb | o/ | 15:54 |
| bauzas | russellb: o/ | 15:55 |
| russellb | basically just wondering what you guys want to do with the repo | 15:55 |
| n0ano | I'm not sure we want to go that far, just changing the README would be my suggestiuon | 15:55 |
| bauzas | russellb: we're quickly discussing on the gantt repo state | 15:55 |
| russellb | is there active work on the code? | 15:55 |
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| n0ano | I'm still working on it | 15:55 |
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| bauzas | btw, should we move it to stackforge ? | 15:55 |
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| russellb | i asked about the stackforge move, -infra folks generally against it if there's any chance we'll move it back later | 15:56 |
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| bauzas | russellb: ok thanks for the heads-up | 15:56 |
| russellb | i don't think nova-core is looking at it | 15:56 |
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| n0ano | we'd definitely move it back so I'm good with leaving it | 15:56 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: russellb: so I will propose a patch for updating README and stating this is not active code | 15:57 |
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| russellb | so if it stays we should just change the review team | 15:57 |
| bauzas | russellb: +1 | 15:57 |
| russellb | otherwise nothing will ever get approved | 15:57 |
| russellb | heh | 15:57 |
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| n0ano | then we should change the review team `before` we change the README | 15:57 |
| bauzas | n0ano: agreed | 15:57 |
| russellb | not sure the order matters | 15:58 |
| russellb | but sure | 15:58 |
| bauzas | we're running out of time | 15:58 |
| n0ano | We need to identify the review team, I'll start a ML thread | 15:58 |
| n0ano | for today, yes, we'll have to continue on the ML | 15:58 |
| bauzas | ok | 15:58 |
| n0ano | tnx everyone | 15:58 |
| n0ano | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 25 15:59:01 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-03-25-14.59.html | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-03-25-14.59.txt | 15:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-03-25-14.59.log.html | 15:59 |
| bauzas | thanks :) | 15:59 |
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| dolphm | ayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, fmarco76: ping! | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | hey | 18:01 |
| bknudson | dolphm: hi | 18:01 |
| gyee | \o | 18:01 |
| henrynash | hi | 18:01 |
| fmarco76 | hi | 18:01 |
| dolphm | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:01 |
| ayoung | \m/_ (>.<) _\m/ | 18:01 |
| topol | o/ | 18:01 |
| marekd | o/ | 18:01 |
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| dolphm | topol: we're now caught up to your future timezone savings time | 18:01 |
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| ayoung | Lets get this party started | 18:02 |
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| stevemar | o/ | 18:02 |
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| dstanek | hi | 18:02 |
| dolphm | #startmeeting keystone | 18:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 25 18:02:53 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:02 |
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| dolphm | #topic Reminder: Design summit session proposals open until April 20th | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reminder: Design summit session proposals open until April 20th (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:03 | |
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| dolphm | i saw that david chadwick had a request on list for the summit - anyone know if that was captured on summit.openstack.org as well? | 18:03 |
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| marekd | ayoung: told him to do so. | 18:03 |
| marekd | ayoung told him to do so.* | 18:04 |
| stevemar | dolphm, i think he's just interested in adding on to federation, my topic should cover it 'future enhancements to federation' | 18:04 |
| ayoung | dolphm, what he wants to discuss is in stevemar 's session anyways | 18:04 |
| dolphm | marekd: awesome, thanks - i haven't caught up on the mailing list recently | 18:04 |
| dolphm | ayoung: cool | 18:04 |
| stevemar | ayoung, thanks for that reply btw | 18:04 |
| ayoung | NP | 18:04 |
| lbragstad | #link http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/72 | 18:04 |
| dolphm | stevemar: s/future enhancements// # it's the design summit, anything else would be rejected :P | 18:05 |
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| dolphm | #topic icehouse-rc1 | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "icehouse-rc1 (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:05 | |
| * dolphm CONGRATS EVERYONE | 18:05 | |
| dolphm | our list of release blockers is clear as of this morning: | 18:05 |
| dolphm | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/icehouse-rc1 | 18:05 |
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| stevemar | nice | 18:06 |
| dolphm | if anyone has any release-critical issues that need to be addressed, target them to icehouse-rc1, stab me, and wave lots of flags | 18:06 |
| dolphm | otherwise, we should be cutting RC1 tomorrow morning | 18:06 |
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| bknudson | when does juno get cut? | 18:06 |
| bknudson | i mean when is juno open | 18:06 |
| dolphm | bknudson: opened? | 18:06 |
| dolphm | bknudson: as soon as we have a milestone-proposed branch for icehouse (which RC1 is created from) | 18:07 |
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| dolphm | so, tomorrow hopefully | 18:07 |
| dolphm | and on a related note... | 18:07 |
| dolphm | #topic keystoneclient v0.7.0 release | 18:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "keystoneclient v0.7.0 release (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:07 | |
| morganfainberg | o/ | 18:08 |
| dolphm | i'm aiming to release keystoneclient 0.7.0 tomorrow morning, along with RC1 (by coincidence) | 18:08 |
| gyee | w00t! | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | whoopse :P | 18:08 |
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| dolphm | we have a wishlist of reviews on the meeting agenda that we wanted to see merged prior to stamping out 0.7.0 | 18:08 |
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| dolphm | as of now, they're all approved except for a couple nice-to-haves | 18:08 |
| dolphm | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82527/ | 18:09 |
| dolphm | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82886/ | 18:09 |
| ayoung | I really wanted to get compressed tokens in there but getting shut down by Python33 issues | 18:09 |
| jamielennox | though if anyone is looking there are always a bunch of nice to haves up for review | 18:09 |
| ayoung | region API is a nice to have | 18:09 |
| dolphm | ayoung: ack, we'll open juno with a 0.8.0 then :) | 18:09 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: feel free to extend the list on the meeting agenda with your top picks | 18:10 |
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| ayoung | revoke events needs to be resynced as well | 18:10 |
| dolphm | i need to clean up the 0.7.0 block list on LP as well, and push things to 0.7.1 / 0.8.0 as appropriate | 18:10 |
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| jamielennox | cool, i've still got a lot of general client reviews open so if people can spend some time on them this week that would be appreciated as i know we'll all want to get back to server when juno opens | 18:10 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, on my list of things to do since we're looking good on RC | 18:11 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: ++ everyone should do the same this week | 18:11 |
| ayoung | dolphm, On the client side, I'd be interested in people's opions about including the examples scripts such as : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82687/ | 18:11 |
| ayoung | stevemar was working on some oauth ones, and I am doing the same with revocation events | 18:11 |
| jamielennox | excellent, i'm around now so ping me with any questions | 18:11 |
| bknudson | I'd be interested in feedback on not using md5 -- https://review.openstack.org/#/c/80398/ | 18:11 |
| dolphm | ayoung: i'd love to have smaller snippets in docs, like a tutorial | 18:12 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: a bunch of big scripts require maintenance, etc | 18:12 |
| ayoung | bknudson, looking | 18:12 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++ | 18:12 |
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| bknudson | ayoung: after our discussion on irc I changed the server to return the hash algorithm | 18:13 |
| gyee | dolphm, ayoung, is this different from keystone/tools/sample_data.sh? | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i think there is def. value to have the examples, but we should probably either gate on them working or make it docs | 18:13 |
| gyee | I mean use case | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, i like moving to a better algorithm | 18:13 |
| ayoung | gyee, I think it is the same use case | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, gating on the scripts working would be my preference if we're including them as good examples. | 18:14 |
| bknudson | there are some security standards don't allow md5 | 18:14 |
| ayoung | bknudson, I'll have to go through the patch in depth, but it looks right on a quick glance | 18:14 |
| gyee | bknudson, there are some don't even allow sha1 :) | 18:14 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: so is the server returning the algorithm or is it being set by config? i prefer the server set method | 18:14 |
| bknudson | ayoung: yes, please look closely! | 18:14 |
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| bknudson | jamielennox: the server is returning the algorithm in the revocation list | 18:15 |
| dolphm | bknudson: that seems hacky :( | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, the server should specify the algorithm to the client | 18:15 |
| bknudson | dolphm: which is hacky? server includes algorithm or config setting? | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, not just a config that needs to be in sync | 18:16 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: as part of the revocation list? | 18:16 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: so do we need the CONF.hash_algorithm? | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, probably. it's a clear indication of what we used | 18:16 |
| bknudson | the algorithm also applies to the tokens. | 18:16 |
| gyee | bknudson, I am fine with baking the info into meta data | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, there is prior art (look at passwords in ldap, {SSHA}<password> | 18:16 |
| dstanek | why does the algorithm matter in the revocation list? aren't we just comparing the token we have to the list of revoked tokens? | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, it clearly identifies what the client should expect. | 18:16 |
| bknudson | not just the tokens in the revocation list... I mean the cached tokens. | 18:16 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: ack, it's the same challenge with compressed tokens | 18:16 |
| ayoung | dolphm, it is not hacky, it is essential. | 18:16 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: no i think it is better that we have it in the response than to keep the value in sync in CONF on client/server | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++ yep and the same argument | 18:17 |
| bknudson | dstanek: the revocation list contains token hashes | 18:17 |
| ayoung | the MD5 Hash algorithm was based on an assumption that both side used it. Making it explicit is correct, and it needs to be driven by the server | 18:17 |
| dolphm | i'm more concerned about which response the data is being crammed into, and what that affects | 18:17 |
| dolphm | or is intended to affect | 18:17 |
| dstanek | bknudson: ah i see, and i'm assuming we do that because it's shorter | 18:18 |
| bknudson | I've got to admit I like the config option, it was simple to implement. | 18:18 |
| bknudson | dstanek: the token hash is a lot shorter than the PKI token! | 18:18 |
| lbragstad | ++ | 18:18 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, yeah less data to transit usign the hashes | 18:18 |
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| dolphm | bknudson: the challenge of distributing configuration is a larger problem than just old pki vs new pki or md5 vs sha1 | 18:19 |
| dolphm | there was a proposal a summit or two ago about a centralized configuration service for things like this | 18:19 |
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| jamielennox | bknudson: the first use of conf._hash_algorithm there is just for caching purposes - we don't necessarily need that to be the same as the revocation list algorithm | 18:19 |
| dolphm | you could GET a configuration on startup, and then listen on the message bus for changes in real time, etc | 18:19 |
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| bknudson | you can store config in our policy backend. | 18:20 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, being explicit about this stuff to the client also means that non-auth_token clients could understand it | 18:20 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, fine point | 18:20 |
| gyee | take x.509 certs for example, signing and hash algorithm are part of the cert | 18:20 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: yeah, i like that for sure | 18:20 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: i always liked that idea but last time i tried it people suggested sticking with puppet etc | 18:20 |
| dolphm | is the next default algorithm sha1? | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, in cases like the compressed tokens, the TRL, etc, we should make it not auth_token specific (we control auth_token so we can do cool things with it, but being open to other tools is better) | 18:21 |
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| dolphm | jamielennox: the proposal i saw was to complement puppet/etc, not replace them | 18:21 |
| brich1 | dolphm, sha256 is a more durable choice than sha1 | 18:21 |
| dolphm | brich1: of course, but it might not be the best choice today | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | brich1, i would argue sha1 is sufficient in most cases, but as long as we allow for sha256 (limit data transit where possible unless more durable is needed) | 18:22 |
| bknudson | after the comments I got on the keystoneclient hashing, you can use any hash algorithm that hashlib supports | 18:22 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, your customers, whom had to deal with industry compliance, will tell you what is sufficient and what's not | 18:22 |
| bknudson | hash_ = hashlib.new(mode) -- where mode is the config option (or hash algorithm from revocation list) | 18:23 |
| dolphm | brich1: and sha512 is more durable than sha256 :) | 18:23 |
| gyee | we don't often get to decide unfortunately | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, and the default should be best general use-case | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, as long as the better options are easily supportable, i see no issues | 18:23 |
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| gyee | morganfainberg, sure, pick a reason default and allow it to be configurable | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, many deployments don't need the overhead of sha256 | 18:23 |
| gyee | reasonable | 18:23 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, so i'd say sha1, and we can evaluate the default each release :) | 18:23 |
| gyee | that's what bknudson's patch is all about | 18:24 |
| brich1 | dolphm, sha256 is already required by NIST (as of end of 2013), so US federal customers would be happier with that canonical choice | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | but i would like to see MD5 no longer be the default w/ bknudson's patch going live. | 18:24 |
| ayoung | I think bknudson 's approach is correct. Lets give it asolid review after the meeting. Shall we move on? | 18:24 |
| brich1 | morganfainberg, agree that md5 is history | 18:24 |
| dolphm | ayoung: ++ | 18:24 |
| bknudson | thanks! | 18:24 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, md5 dies in Juno | 18:24 |
| dolphm | #topic API/Compatibility expectations for auth_token middleware | 18:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API/Compatibility expectations for auth_token middleware (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:25 | |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, +++++++++++ | 18:25 |
| dolphm | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/77748/ | 18:25 |
| dolphm | (not sure who put this on the agenda? dstanek?) | 18:25 |
| jamielennox | so this came out of a public variable change in the above link | 18:25 |
| jamielennox | me | 18:25 |
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| dstanek | jamielennox probably | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | is this the auth_token doesn't have a stable interface? | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | convo | 18:25 |
| dolphm | gyee: just saw your comment - that's the first time i've heard of anyone extending auth_token at all | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | erm public | 18:25 |
| jamielennox | do we care about people subclassing auth_token middleware and keeping a stable interface for them? | 18:25 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: yes | 18:25 |
| ayoung | I think that one is safe | 18:26 |
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| jamielennox | my impression has always been no | 18:26 |
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| jamielennox | so long as we maintain the config options and the ENV variables we set the actual implementation of the middleware was fair game | 18:26 |
| ayoung | auth_token should not have a stable interface, as it is a wsgi pipeline component | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | I feel like we should break up auth_token into comething more consumable | 18:26 |
| jamielennox | but i realize i've never had that clarified | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | but the middleware should be a blackbox | 18:26 |
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| ayoung | I guess in theory we could be breaking someone that extends it | 18:26 |
| gyee | ayoung, meh :) | 18:26 |
| dolphm | my suggestion to solve this particular review is to add a @property def request_uri that logs a warning to use self.identity_uri instead | 18:26 |
| bknudson | if we're going to have a documented interface then split that out and have keystone auth_token implement it | 18:26 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: in theory yes - i don't know anoyone who does | 18:26 |
| gyee | that's fine, a small change anyway | 18:27 |
| dstanek | yeah, we would be :-) | 18:27 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: ++ delete most of it and replace it with the regular client! | 18:27 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: yea this one is easy, it's the principal i'm wondering about | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, that would let you pull in the bits you need and extend, but not be restricted to what the internals look like | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, :) | 18:27 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: ++ | 18:27 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, ++ | 18:27 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, I think we have to draw the line somewhere. Internal variables are probably it. But then again, last time I decided something like this I made thingy at Dreamhost sad. | 18:27 |
| dstanek | i brought it up in the review because i didn't know if a policy existed for kc api compat | 18:27 |
| gyee | lets tag the public interfaces | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, __call__ | 18:27 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: right - i would like to rip auth_token apart and if i'm stuck with a public interface that's going to get way more difficult | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, the rest are private | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | :P | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, this should be something communicated to the community (not that i think anyone would really have an issue with it) | 18:28 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, sure, add _ in front of them | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, just so we're not ripping the carpet out from under anyone | 18:29 |
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| morganfainberg | jamielennox, but i would like to claim auth_token doesn't have a public interface | 18:29 |
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| jamielennox | gyee: right, i don't mind going through auth_token and making the whole thing private | 18:29 |
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| jamielennox | morganfainberg: i agree | 18:29 |
| dolphm | the only public interface i've ever considered auth_token to have is A) X-Auth-Token, B) all the environment headers passed down to the consuming service | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++ | 18:30 |
| dolphm | and that's fairly well documented in the module's docstr | 18:30 |
| ayoung | dolphm, ++ | 18:30 |
| dolphm | if you're going to start replacing parts of the internals of the module, i'm not sure it's in the community's best interest to support you | 18:30 |
| ayoung | dolphm, unless "you" is jamielennox of course | 18:31 |
| bknudson | and X-Storage-Token | 18:31 |
| dolphm | bknudson: ++ | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | lets aim for 0.8 release to switch the interfaces to _ prefixed and communicate this change to the community | 18:31 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: ++ works for me | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | and clarify the documents as well | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | if someone balks we can work with them to address the concerns | 18:32 |
| dolphm | if we find as result that it's common to extend parts of auth_token with alternative behaviors, we can take a more conservative approach moving forward | 18:32 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: as far as i can see there is nothing on auth_token that would be public | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++ | 18:32 |
| bknudson | what would people want to override in auth_token? | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, no clue. i don't see a point to it | 18:33 |
| bknudson | new headers? | 18:33 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: i've never heard of it in practice | 18:33 |
| dolphm | gyee: ? | 18:33 |
| gyee | bknudson, ssl auth | 18:33 |
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| gyee | we don't use username/password for the admin token | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, that seems like something that can be addressed with auth_plugin magic | 18:34 |
| gyee | we override it to use 2-way ssl | 18:34 |
| dolphm | gyee: is that not relevant to contribute back to the community? | 18:34 |
| bknudson | that's a good one... different methods of getting username. | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, and contributable back up | 18:34 |
| gyee | dolphm, yes, I am trying to contribute it back | 18:34 |
| dolphm | gyee: in that case, you can contribute it back and we can maintain it for you :) no public interface required | 18:34 |
| dstanek | auth_token is just a way for applications to talk to keystone so i would imagine that there are deployments with special needs there | 18:34 |
| jamielennox | gyee: that will be fixed with client + auth plugins + the loading from conf stuff | 18:34 |
| ayoung | gyee, ssl auth should be in conjunction auth auth_token. Not to replace it. | 18:34 |
| gyee | dolphm, absolutely! | 18:34 |
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| gyee | ayoung, its the same user | 18:35 |
| ayoung | auth_token should be seen as authorization, where as SSL is authentication | 18:35 |
| gyee | why go through two stage auth | 18:35 |
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| ayoung | cert auth should only be used for Keystone itself | 18:35 |
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| morganfainberg | gyee, this really isn't different than how we handle external auth in keystone. | 18:35 |
| dstanek | my thought is that we should have have an explicit policy or name varibles using _ (Python convention) to make this a non-issue | 18:36 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: it's never made much sense to me to require auth_token to have much in the way of authorization on keystone -- it should only be reading from keystone | 18:36 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, ++ | 18:36 |
| dolphm | dstanek: ++ | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, i think we're getting better about that | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, but total agreement ++ | 18:36 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, we don't want to request a token and then use the it to validate other tokens | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, no meant functionally | 18:36 |
| ayoung | gyee, right. Agreed. 100 cement. | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, just where the type of check is done. | 18:36 |
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| morganfainberg | gyee, it is a similar method, just in auth_token vs keystone :) [impl is obv different] | 18:37 |
| dolphm | alrighty, moving on... | 18:37 |
| dolphm | #topic Remove Eventlet + new non-httpd wsgi | 18:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Remove Eventlet + new non-httpd wsgi (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:37 | |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: o/ | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | So had a chat w/ -infra | 18:37 |
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| morganfainberg | i was told to consider eventlet dead for py33 | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | they specifically were asking if we were going to remove eventlet dep or remove py33 check job | 18:38 |
| dstanek | yay | 18:38 |
| bknudson | every other project is also dropping eventlet? | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | so, the general answer is we should move to wsgiref for basic standalong | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | and trollius for async/eventet/coroutine work | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, ideally trollius / tulip is the way forward | 18:38 |
| dolphm | trollius in 2.7 == tullip in 3.2 == asyncio in 3.3 (did i get that right?) | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, trollius should work for all three afaik | 18:39 |
| bknudson | what about 2.6? | 18:39 |
| gyee | ++ with dropping eventlet | 18:39 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, trollius = py2 i think | 18:39 |
| dolphm | https://pypi.python.org/pypi/trollius Trollius works on Python 2.6-3.4. | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | but in keystone we don't use eventlet (really) | 18:39 |
| gyee | actually, ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | 18:39 |
| dolphm | quote unquote | 18:39 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: so we should *really* get rid of the dep lol | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++ | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | wsgiref is there for a reason | 18:40 |
| dstanek | on that note i have been working on a review based on bknudson's finding - to make our py33 build work | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | both trollius and wsgiref are in the global reqs | 18:40 |
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| dstanek | won't trollius change the application design to be more callback based? | 18:40 |
| bknudson | seems like an easy change early in juno is stop using eventlet & don't worry about the async | 18:40 |
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| morganfainberg | dstanek, sure, but we don't use the coroutine-like stuff in eventlet | 18:41 |
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| bknudson | I don't think the monkeypatching got us much anyways since it'd block on sql | 18:41 |
| ayoung | 2.6 can die, I think | 18:41 |
| jamielennox | i like the dropping of eventlet, lets leave trollius alone until there is more consensus on how to use it | 18:41 |
| ayoung | 2.6 was needed for RHEL6, but I think with collections we can get away from that. | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | the basic premise is either remove eventlet or remove py33 check for keystone in the near-term | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | but we can drop eventlet from keystone if we use a different wsgi impl | 18:42 |
| bknudson | Let's drop the py33 check for stable/icehouse | 18:42 |
| ayoung | Apache HTTPD | 18:42 |
| dstanek | what about our use of subprocess? | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, no question for I, this is for Juno | 18:42 |
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| ayoung | dstanek, we'd need a trollius compatable hach | 18:42 |
| ayoung | hack | 18:42 |
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| dolphm | bknudson: stable won't have it, i don't think | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++ stable shouldn't | 18:42 |
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| dolphm | it would be non-voting anyway, which is pointless | 18:42 |
| bknudson | dstanek: what's wrong with the use of subprocess? | 18:43 |
| jamielennox | dstanek: i don't think that pyopenssl has the CMS stuff we need does it? | 18:43 |
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| dstanek | morganfainberg: in the patch i'm working on we would not need to drop eventlet - certain tests would not run until it was dropped though | 18:43 |
| dolphm | there's also pycrypto | 18:44 |
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| jamielennox | dstanek: i'm longer term hoping that python cryptography will be the way we do that in a library but it will be a while | 18:44 |
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| dstanek | jamielennox: not as far as i know | 18:44 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: i don't think pycrypto does cms, but could be wrong | 18:44 |
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| ayoung | doesn't yet | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, it is still a requirements, if it | 18:44 |
| dstanek | bknudson: we use eventlet's patching so that we don't block on subprocess calls (or at least as much) | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | 's in requirements it would fail check | 18:44 |
| ayoung | #link https://www.dlitz.net/software/pycrypto/api/current/ | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, because eventlet can't be installed in py33 | 18:45 |
| dolphm | as far as i could tell one of either pycrypto or pyopenssl did everything we needed it to, but choked when it came to the arbitrary string manipulation we were doing in the middle | 18:45 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: yep that's what i though pycrypto never really dealt with certs | 18:45 |
| dstanek | morganfainberg: it won't be in the requirements :-) bknudson found a neat trick that oslo seems to be using | 18:45 |
| ayoung | only signature it does is PKCS#1 which is not CMS | 18:45 |
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| bknudson | without trollius we'll block on subprocess calls. I assume that we'll have figured out what will work for us by end of juno | 18:45 |
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| morganfainberg | dstanek, i look forward to seeing it, but i'm skeptical of it not being in requirements | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, i think that is going to cause us issues w/ deployments unless we really drop the dep on eventlet | 18:46 |
| ayoung | bknudson, Apache HTTPD preform blocking on subprocess calls is OK | 18:46 |
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| dstanek | bknudson: i don't think tollius help us there which i why i brought it up; it would be nice to just get rid of them anyway | 18:46 |
| bknudson | ayoung: but it forks a few keystones? | 18:46 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: the choice to use CMS is fairly arbitrary right? why not use something that is built into a popular python package? | 18:46 |
| ayoung | No | 18:46 |
| ayoung | CMS is the closest thing to a standard signature algorithm there is | 18:47 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: not really - and there isn't much else | 18:47 |
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| dolphm | PKCS1 v1.5? RSA + SHA1 signatures | 18:48 |
| gyee | CMS is not an algorithm, it is a spec | 18:48 |
| dolphm | gyee: correct | 18:48 |
| ayoung | OK...I promise to do a blog post enumerating all of the details around CMS. | 18:48 |
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| gyee | in theory, you can sign anything in any format, just may not be *standard* | 18:48 |
| dolphm | or it's a different arbitrary "standard" | 18:48 |
| ayoung | PKCS1 is not a very well supported approach. I was surprised to see it in pycrypto | 18:48 |
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| ayoung | CMS is S/MIME and pretty much the widest deployed signature approach | 18:49 |
| morganfainberg | i know, lets make our own new standard... everyone will switch to it..because..... /xkcd | 18:49 |
| gyee | signing basically means, 1) canonicalized the data, 2) hash, 3) encrypt with private key | 18:49 |
| dolphm | ayoung: do you have any data to back that up with regard to consumers that we care about? | 18:49 |
| ayoung | PKCS #7 Is a standard. | 18:49 |
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| gyee | xkcd ftw! :D | 18:50 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, PKCS1 is not a signature standard per-se, it is well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PKCS_1 | 18:50 |
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| dstanek | what system besides keystone (including kc middlware) cares about the encryption spec? | 18:51 |
| jamielennox | i never reallised that pycrypto had pkcs1 | 18:51 |
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| ayoung | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S/MIME | 18:51 |
| jamielennox | given that we don't embed the certificates in the token it really is no different | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, this is the open standard argument i just made | 18:51 |
| dolphm | dstanek: ++ | 18:51 |
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| morganfainberg | dstanek, for hashing algorithm | 18:51 |
| bknudson | keystone cms isn't really standard either? it strips off the header/footer -- http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/python-keystoneclient/tree/keystoneclient/common/cms.py#n144 | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, we want to be as open to not using "our method" as possible. | 18:51 |
| ayoung | dstanek, yeah...we have end users that kinds of care about this stuff | 18:51 |
| dstanek | morganfainberg: but tokens are opaque and only keystone needs to know their details right? | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, auth_token needs to know it | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, and if auth_token needs to, non-keystoneclient tools might | 18:52 |
| dolphm | ayoung: as far as i can tell, you're obfuscating their interests rather than advocating for them | 18:52 |
| gyee | dstanek, java clients need to understand it too | 18:52 |
| ayoung | bknudson, I could probably make due with straight RSA calls instead of using the CMS call. | 18:52 |
| gyee | so yeah, guys like jcloud may want us to use a standard approach | 18:52 |
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| dolphm | gyee: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7611383/generating-rsa-keys-in-pkcs1-format-in-java | 18:53 |
| ayoung | once we start talking compressed tokens... | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, moving to straight RSA calls might be a good alternative | 18:53 |
| ayoung | actually, there is more than just that | 18:53 |
| ayoung | there is the format of the Data, including where to find the certificate sin side | 18:53 |
| dstanek | gyee: that may be a good cenversation to start having then - to see what they really need/want | 18:53 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: well it means that we loose the CA | 18:53 |
| jamielennox | which given the distribution method may be a problem | 18:53 |
| ayoung | yep | 18:53 |
| jamielennox | may = will | 18:53 |
| ayoung | no, we want to stay with CMS as the basic format | 18:54 |
| ayoung | drop the custom base64 butchery | 18:54 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, ++ | 18:54 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: ++ | 18:54 |
| ayoung | but we need to be able to tell "who signed this" from the doc itself | 18:54 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: straight to DER and then base64 it ourself | 18:54 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, with a little zlib in between | 18:55 |
| gyee | then what are we gaining from this? | 18:55 |
| ayoung | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/71181/24/keystoneclient/common/cms.py | 18:55 |
| dolphm | ayoung: the choice to use CMS is still undefended and arbitrary | 18:55 |
| dstanek | if we are stuck with cms then someone should dust off their C skills! | 18:55 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, lets use gpg and expect to interact with the gpg binary | 18:55 |
| ayoung | dolphm, its like democracy. The worst option except for all the rest | 18:55 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, M2Crypto yo! i mean... | 18:55 |
| gyee | dstanek, extra $$ on the consulting side :) | 18:55 |
| jamielennox | i dont see CMS as a problem other than python crypto libraries are crap | 18:56 |
| gyee | m2crypto! | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | can we have a new lib: YUNoCrypto | 18:56 |
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| ayoung | dstanek, I actually have enlisted jdennis as the python-nss maintainer to get better CMS support there | 18:56 |
| dstanek | gyee: you're welcome to it | 18:56 |
| dolphm | if you use m2crypto and pyopenssl and pycrypto together then you get security++ | 18:56 |
| ayoung | python-cms? python-smime? | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, probably a good idea, smime | 18:57 |
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| gyee | dolphm, security++++ | 18:57 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: and unfortunately our primary consumers are in python | 18:57 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: making the arbitrary choice rather poor | 18:57 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, don't like python-cms, it's not really descriptive of waht you're doing, cms is the standard smime is the impl | 18:57 |
| ayoung | dolphm, the Python crypto story is not clear at this point | 18:57 |
| dstanek | python-cms would be too confusing - not another content management system! | 18:57 |
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| morganfainberg | dstanek, ++ | 18:58 |
| ayoung | ++ python-smime then | 18:58 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i | 18:58 |
| gyee | k man, this thing is getting out of hand | 18:58 |
| dolphm | ayoung: the python crypto story is that i can't validate tokens in the client due to a lack of library support for the arbitrary choice in standards | 18:58 |
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| morganfainberg | ve been meaning to dust off c/c++ | 18:58 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, its worse than that | 18:58 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: but that part is quite clear | 18:58 |
| * dolphm 2 min | 18:58 | |
| ayoung | and the choice was not aribitrary. It is PKCS 7 | 18:58 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, maybe we should roll python-smime as under stackforge and get it published | 18:58 |
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| jamielennox | ayoung: i would prefer that to be in python cryptography - they'll get there | 18:59 |
| ayoung | That is the only "signing" standard I know of | 18:59 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, ++ | 18:59 |
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| gyee | ayoung, lets start issuing x.509 certs instead of tokens | 18:59 |
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| ayoung | gyee, no | 18:59 |
| dolphm | ayoung: why not? | 18:59 |
| ayoung | they serve different needs | 18:59 |
| ayoung | certs are authN tokens AuthZ | 18:59 |
| dolphm | yeah, you still need authz | 18:59 |
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| dolphm | time! | 18:59 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, the question is, would it be easier to publish a lib and then get it superseded by pycrypto or aim to get it in pycrypto to begin with | 18:59 |
| ayoung | there are X509 stnadards for it, but they are no better supported | 19:00 |
| ayoung | SAML would make more sense | 19:00 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, my guess is the former | 19:00 |
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| morganfainberg | anyway. | 19:00 |
| morganfainberg | more to discuss | 19:00 |
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| * dolphm back to #openstack-keystone! | 19:00 | |
| dolphm | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: the question is does it matter when we call still subprocess out? | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 25 19:00:26 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-03-25-18.02.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-03-25-18.02.txt | 19:00 |
| gyee | lunch time | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-03-25-18.02.log.html | 19:00 |
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| jeblair | hello infra folks? | 19:00 |
| fungi | hey-o | 19:00 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 19:00 |
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| clarkb | hi there | 19:00 |
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| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 25 19:01:27 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:01 |
| zaro | 0o/ | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting | 19:01 |
| jeblair | agenda ^ | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-03-18-19.02.html | 19:01 |
| jeblair | last meeting ^ | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #topic Agenda | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
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| jeblair | there's no agenda, so anyone have anything they want to discuss? | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | puppetboard | 19:02 |
| sdague | jeblair: I think I noticed something out of the corner of my eye the other day on you doing multinode nodepool? | 19:03 |
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| jeblair | multinodepool | 19:03 |
| clarkb | when do RCs happen and does infra need to soft freeze for that? | 19:03 |
| jeblair | okay, throw other things out if you think of them, otherwise, this may be short (which is no bad thing) | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #topic puppetboard | 19:04 |
| fungi | oh, i guess the openstack-attic namespace might be worth some deliberation too | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "puppetboard (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
| jeblair | yay we haz puppetboard! | 19:04 |
| fungi | it released? | 19:04 |
| SergeyLukjanov | yay! | 19:04 |
| jeblair | on the only slightly inaccurately named http://puppetdb.openstack.org/ | 19:04 |
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| fungi | oh, puppetboard. i had storyboard in my head | 19:04 |
| fungi | yes, puppetboard! | 19:04 |
| jeblair | so what's the story with the name anyway? | 19:05 |
| clarkb | jeblair: it has been suggested we make a CNAME for it | 19:05 |
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| jeblair | hostname | 19:05 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: puppetdb runs on that node and puppetboard depends on puppetdb so they were colocated | 19:05 |
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| jeblair | should puppetboard and puppetdb be on the same host? | 19:05 |
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| fungi | it seems fine using the server hostname to me, but if people want a different fqdn for the url that's easy enough to fix | 19:05 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I don't see a problem with them being colocated | 19:05 |
| anteaya | I think they have to be | 19:06 |
| jeblair | okay, if we think they belong on the same host, then yeah, let's cname that | 19:06 |
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| jeblair | for discoverability, etc | 19:06 |
| SergeyLukjanov | +1 | 19:06 |
| zaro | +1 | 19:06 |
| fungi | so should we move puppet-dashboard.o.o to be a cname to that then? | 19:07 |
| jeblair | fungi: not a bad idea; though of course if anyone has a stale bookmark, it would be to port 3000 | 19:07 |
| fungi | or retire the old name now that we can tear down the old server and use puppetboard.o.o or something? | 19:07 |
| jeblair | so given the port issue, i'd be okay just dropping puppet-dashboard | 19:07 |
| anteaya | I like puppetboard.o.o | 19:07 |
| clarkb | I think we should tear down the old server and use puppetboard | 19:07 |
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| clarkb | it wasn't a highly used external service anyways (I don't image many people will have to update bookmarks) | 19:08 |
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| fungi | there may be a handful of docs which need updating in the config repo now when pointed at it | 19:08 |
| fungi | git grep ought to find them in short order | 19:08 |
| jeblair | #agreed cname puppetboard.o.o and delete puppet-dashboard.o.o server and dns | 19:08 |
| jeblair | i reckon i can do that | 19:09 |
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| jeblair | #action jeblair cname puppetboard.o.o and delete puppet-dashboard.o.o server and dns | 19:09 |
| anteaya | fungi: 9 instances of puppet-dashboard in /config | 19:09 |
| zaro | question about gerrit upgrade when done with this topic | 19:09 |
| jeblair | and i guess we can start merging the refactoring patches, though we might want to confirm that aarongr, etc, are around to fix anything | 19:09 |
| pleia2 | yay :) | 19:09 |
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| jeblair | #topic multinode nodepool | 19:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "multinode nodepool (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:10 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | ++ for puppetboard | 19:10 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-infra/nodepool+branch:master+topic:multi,n,z | 19:11 |
| jeblair | sdague: ^ there's a 4 patch series to add multi-node support to nodepool | 19:11 |
| * anteaya sees 7 patches | 19:11 | |
| jeblair | it's a pretty naive implementation, but it can be refined/extended/replaced later | 19:11 |
| sdague | jeblair: awesome | 19:11 |
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| jeblair | anteaya: there are some other unrelated patches later on in the series | 19:12 |
| anteaya | ah | 19:12 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I think for a naive implementation it has quite a bit of flexibility | 19:12 |
| jeblair | i just didn't bother to change the topic | 19:12 |
| clarkb | granted I havne't tried to spin up any subnodes yet so can't speak from experience | 19:12 |
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| jeblair | sdague: there isn't any L2 connectivity yet; but the nodes will be able to ssh into each other | 19:13 |
| sdague | so when do we think we could try to kick the tires with a job that uses it? | 19:13 |
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| jeblair | sdague: they could set up an openvpn..., or soon we should have neutron support in hp and rax, and when that happens, we can have nodepool create an l2 network | 19:13 |
| fungi | depends on what else the job needs to build on top of it (like vpn) | 19:13 |
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| fungi | er, what jeblair said | 19:13 |
| jeblair | but if we can do something that doesn't require L2, it should be pretty easy | 19:14 |
| sdague | what code is going to run pre-job start the do something like lay down the vpn | 19:14 |
| sdague | yeh, well the start point for me is multinode devstack | 19:14 |
| sdague | so I'm trying to figure out how I could hack this into making that work | 19:14 |
| clarkb | sdague: it is arbitrary, you give nodepool a script to run on each node and all nodes can ssh to each other | 19:14 |
| jeblair | basically, nodepool is going to run a script on all the nodes in a group after spinning them up and before attaching them to jenkins | 19:14 |
| jeblair | so we can do whatever we want there | 19:15 |
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| sdague | it's going to run the same script in all nodes? or run a script ahead of time | 19:15 |
| clarkb | and each node knows what its role is so you can distinguish between the node connected to jenkins and the subnodes | 19:15 |
| jeblair | sdague: does multinode devstack need l2 connectivity, or can we just give it some ip addresses and let it talk over L3? | 19:15 |
| sdague | I'm mostly thinking about cert generation to create the L2 connect | 19:15 |
| sdague | jeblair: good question | 19:16 |
| clarkb | sdague: you would probably have each node do their own cert generation then ssh to all of the others to copy it across | 19:16 |
| sdague | actually we could probably get away with L3 | 19:16 |
| sdague | what's the firewall situation between hosts? | 19:16 |
| clarkb | then start the openvpn service | 19:16 |
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| jeblair | cool, i'd like to avoid investing too much in creating openvpn stuff if we're going to end up with neutron in the not too distant future | 19:16 |
| sdague | clarkb: well openvpn is hub and spoke, so we'd build the certs on one box, and distribute them | 19:16 |
| clarkb | sdague: as is completely locked down, only ssh is allowed in | 19:16 |
| fungi | is this where we need heat to gather things like signatures and then enroll on other nodes in the group? | 19:17 |
| jeblair | but if we need it, it's an option | 19:17 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ++ | 19:17 |
| jeblair | fungi: we could, but this is all doable with ssh | 19:17 |
| clarkb | sdague: right so assuming we don't need L2 | 19:17 |
| sdague | I'm not convinced doing that in heat is actually any easier than with ssh | 19:17 |
| clarkb | sdague: I imagine the script on each node would update the iptables to allow whichever ports you need in the mesh | 19:17 |
| jeblair | fungi: the nodes all know each other, and the controller node is deterministically the last one to run the ready script | 19:18 |
| fungi | yeah, i think neutron's desperation for multi-node assumes l2 connectivity but that can presumably come later | 19:18 |
| sdague | clarkb: we'll have firewall control inside the nodes ourselves? | 19:18 |
| clarkb | sdague: yup you have root | 19:18 |
| clarkb | sdague: and we only do local firewalls | 19:18 |
| sdague | I thought that previously there was an issue with punching holes | 19:18 |
| sdague | that heat was running into | 19:18 |
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| clarkb | sdague: there was, but heat fixed it by updating the rules on those nodes | 19:18 |
| sdague | ok | 19:18 |
| jeblair | so i image the ready script pokes holes in iptables, adds the controller node's ssh key on all the subnodes, then on the controller node, it can ssh back out to the controller to do any key distribution, etc. | 19:19 |
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| jeblair | er "ssh back out to the subnodes" | 19:19 |
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| jeblair | anyway, that script is the last part of this that hasn't been written | 19:19 |
| sdague | ok, cool | 19:20 |
| sdague | well once that part is in place, let me know | 19:20 |
| sdague | I think an experimental devstack sanity check job would be a good place to start after that | 19:20 |
| sdague | and then we'll get to see a whole new level of failure in the gate :) | 19:20 |
| jeblair | sdague: from a jenkins POV, it's just a single node attached to jenkins. it just happens that the job jenkins runs on that node will have access to a set of other machines. | 19:20 |
| sdague | jeblair: cool | 19:21 |
| jeblair | sdague: hehe | 19:21 |
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| jeblair | #topic openstack-attic | 19:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "openstack-attic (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:21 | |
| jeblair | i registered this on github in case we need it | 19:21 |
| fungi | when last the conversation wound down, it sounded like the tc had basically already approved policy that we would archive things we no longer care about into a separate namespace | 19:22 |
| fungi | thus something we need to plan for. i guess when we do the next round of renames | 19:22 |
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| jeblair | i missed that tc meeting | 19:22 |
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| jeblair | fungi: do you have a reference? | 19:23 |
| fungi | i missed that the policy patch was stating that, or i'd have suggested not doing so | 19:23 |
| fungi | ttx linked to the change in governance. i'll dig it back up | 19:23 |
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| mordred | o/ | 19:24 |
| mordred | (sorry late) | 19:24 |
| pleia2 | welcome mordred | 19:24 |
| SergeyLukjanov | mordred, hey | 19:24 |
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| fungi | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/commit/reference/programs.yaml?id=7044c17 | 19:25 |
| zaro | mordred: your appearance made everything quiet. | 19:26 |
| * mordred is the quiet maker | 19:26 | |
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| fungi | in the commit message, which was apparently part of what's voted on along with the patch itself, "openstack-dev/openstack-qa, openstack/melange, openstack/openstack-chef, and openstack/python-melangeclient which should move to some attic ... openstack-dev/sandbox and openstack/python-openstackclient which should be in stackforge" | 19:27 |
| jeblair | hrm | 19:27 |
| jeblair | i'm not sure a commit message makes policy | 19:27 |
| fungi | that was more or less what the discussion ended with at any rate | 19:27 |
| jeblair | especially a vague one like that | 19:27 |
| ttx | o/ | 19:28 |
| jeblair | i mean, i think it's the actions on files in the repo that are the policy and what people are voting on | 19:28 |
| jeblair | i see the commit message as more like the speech you would give to the committee about the motion, not the motion itself | 19:28 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 19:29 |
| fungi | in which case, more clarification needed after all | 19:29 |
| mordred | I would consider that to be the case | 19:29 |
| ttx | fungi: commit message @ http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/commit/?id=7044c177dcc02d44321660db8b909483dad68be3 | 19:29 |
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| ttx | yes, that was not a "resolution", more of a default understanding | 19:29 |
| fungi | ttx: righth, that's what i linked above | 19:29 |
| ttx | missed link sorry | 19:30 |
| fungi | okay, so it' | 19:30 |
| fungi | er | 19:30 |
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| ttx | (hence the "should" language which is far from perscriptive) | 19:30 |
| jeblair | it probably does represent what most of us think anyway, at least generally | 19:30 |
| jeblair | as in, i think we could probably all get behind moving melange to openstack-attic | 19:30 |
| ttx | I think there is the idea that all projects under openstack*/ should be accounted for | 19:31 |
| fungi | i was less convinced that openstack-dev/sandbox belongs in stackforge | 19:31 |
| jeblair | fungi: ++ | 19:31 |
| ttx | not really forcing the implemntation | 19:31 |
| clarkb | and in general I am not sure stackforge is a dumping ground so ++ to attic | 19:31 |
| ttx | the commit message reflects the discussion we had about those orphans | 19:31 |
| clarkb | stackforge isn't a default. It is specificlly a way for community members to leverage the tools we provide for active development | 19:32 |
| jeblair | so i think our open questions are: a) what to do with melange? should we initialize openstack-attic and move it there? or leave it in openstack and categorize it as abandoned? | 19:32 |
| fungi | though i guess the gantt and openstackclient moves to stackforge are more in line with what we expect to do in the case of an aborted incubation | 19:32 |
| jeblair | and b) what to do with gantt | 19:32 |
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| jeblair | i would say under normal conditions, that's an easy one, we move it to stackforge, except people keep saying it might come back to life again later | 19:33 |
| fungi | in which case, the compute program deciding to no longer foster gantt is actually an aborted incubation right? | 19:33 |
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| jeblair | fungi: i think so. i just hope they know that if they move it to stackforge, they're giving up the right to use the name gantt. :) | 19:33 |
| jeblair | because i think it would be mean to rename a stackforge project because openstack likes the name | 19:34 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:34 |
| fungi | or is there some other class of projects which might get spun out of an official program into unofficial space? | 19:34 |
| jeblair | (that is unless they want to rename it _back_ to openstack in the future) | 19:34 |
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| jeblair | fungi: i think once they are unofficial, they're unofficial; we don't care anymore | 19:35 |
| sdague | gantt is going to be fully reinitialized when it happens again | 19:35 |
| fungi | basically wondering if gantt was incubated and is now being un-incubated, in which case we have initial precedent for the process | 19:35 |
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| jeblair | sdague: what's it going to be called? | 19:36 |
| sdague | gantt | 19:36 |
| sdague | basically the forklift failed | 19:36 |
| jeblair | sdague: so there's a group of people that want to keep working on the current forklift | 19:36 |
| sdague | my understanding is it will be a new forklift | 19:36 |
| sdague | after cleaning up some nova scheduler parts to make the forklift doable | 19:37 |
| clarkb | right, which leads to the issue jeblair points out above | 19:37 |
| sdague | agreed | 19:37 |
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| jeblair | sdague: i think if nova has decided to mothball gantt, but wants to revive it in the future.... there are two least-bad choices | 19:37 |
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| clarkb | keep gantt as openstack/gantt >_> | 19:37 |
| jeblair | a) rename openstack/gantt -> something/notgantt; this gives nova devs a clean start | 19:38 |
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| sdague | jeblair: honestly, I have no idea why we're not just deleting gantt. I think the people that want to play with the code should do so off in github if they really want to. Because there is no path forward from the current codebase to the eventual project | 19:38 |
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| fungi | s/delete/mothball/ but otherwise agree | 19:38 |
| sdague | fungi: sure | 19:38 |
| sdague | openstack-attic/gantt-mark1 | 19:38 |
| jeblair | b) keep openstack/gantt and disable the acls; when it is restarted, people can merge a new branch over the current one; we won't do a force push, but we can do a wholesale replacement in one commit like we did with keystone (it preserves history too) | 19:39 |
| jeblair | sdague: yeah, that's closest to option (a) (actual deletion isn't an option) | 19:39 |
| jeblair | sdague: thanks for that clarification, i think it helps a lot | 19:40 |
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| jeblair | anyone have preferences on option a vs b? | 19:40 |
| fungi | i think b is a little more genuine and preserves what went on | 19:41 |
| clarkb | ++ to b | 19:41 |
| jeblair | i still have my notes from when i did that for keystone, so it should be pretty easy to do | 19:41 |
| clarkb | continuing work on what was gantt can continue wherever the devs like | 19:41 |
| fungi | with a we sent a signal that it's okay to etch-a-sketch projects by just renaming them out of the way and trying harder next time | 19:42 |
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| jeblair | fungi: yeah, i agree, that makes me uneasy | 19:42 |
| fungi | s/sent/send/ | 19:42 |
| jeblair | ttx: it seems like we think the best thing to do with gantt is to leave it where it is but disable access for now, until it is either revived (most likely), or it is certain that it will not be revived. | 19:43 |
| jeblair | ttx: maybe we should have a mothball status for projects | 19:44 |
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| jeblair | anyone object to moving melange to -attic ? | 19:44 |
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| anteaya | I do not object | 19:45 |
| fungi | if we are agreed on wanting openstack-attic, then .*melange.* are good fodder | 19:45 |
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| anteaya | it isn't like there hasn't been adequate discussion | 19:45 |
| SergeyLukjanov | fungi, ++ | 19:46 |
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| jeblair | fungi: i think that's implicit in the question; i am also asking if you think moving it elsewhere or not moving it are preferable | 19:46 |
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| sdague | it would be a good initial signal as well | 19:47 |
| sdague | see what other dead projects people propose moving to the attic | 19:47 |
| sdague | is your intent to move stackforge there as well? | 19:47 |
| sdague | or should there be a stackforge-attic? | 19:47 |
| fungi | i'm fine with moving stuff into an attic as a low-priority task when we're already doing other more urgent renames, since there seems to be tc consensus that we should not keep things around in the openstack/.* namespace indefinitely | 19:47 |
| jeblair | i'll send an email to the infra list suggesting dispositions for these tricky projects, and we can verify that we agree with them, and if so, i'll forward to the tc to see if it's agreeable to them | 19:47 |
| jeblair | and if they object, then we'll start writing policy i guess. :) | 19:48 |
| * clarkb returns to following meeting | 19:48 | |
| jeblair | (by writing policy i mean proposing changes to governance to make this explicit) | 19:48 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair propose organizational cleanup repo renames to infra and then tc lists | 19:49 |
| jeblair | #topic freeze and release schedule | 19:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "freeze and release schedule (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:49 | |
| jeblair | clarkb: just in time | 19:49 |
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| jeblair | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Icehouse_Release_Schedule | 19:49 |
| jeblair | milstones start thursda | 19:50 |
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| clarkb | I saw that the first RCs are starting to come out | 19:50 |
| clarkb | and was curious if we needed to institute a soft freeze around that happening | 19:50 |
| jeblair | oh that seems earl | 19:50 |
| jeblair | y | 19:50 |
| sdague | it's later than you think | 19:50 |
| sdague | monday is april | 19:50 |
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| jeblair | i guess that calendar means rc's start at the beginning of the week that has the 27th | 19:51 |
| fungi | oh, and related to release stuffs, i should get started on the grizzly eol i meant to start yesterday | 19:51 |
| ttx | jeblair: RCs may start anytime now | 19:51 |
| jeblair | i initially read it as rcs start on the 27th | 19:51 |
| ttx | theer is no start date for them, the schedule just shows when they are ~expected | 19:51 |
| sdague | yeh | 19:51 |
| jeblair | i don't think a 1 month freeze is tenable | 19:51 |
| ttx | the first one shall happen tomorrow fwiw | 19:51 |
| clarkb | jeblair: agreed, perhaps we be nice during the first part of freezing (this week) then go backto business as usual? | 19:52 |
| ttx | jeblair: soft freeze, everyone works on storyboard instead ! :) | 19:52 |
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| krotscheck | yay! | 19:52 |
| anteaya | sorry what are we freezing? | 19:52 |
| sdague | this week and next week are probably the sensitive times | 19:52 |
| jeblair | ttx: i started breaking/fixing storyboard things this morning! | 19:52 |
| clarkb | anteaya: infra | 19:52 |
| sdague | when the likelyhood of rc critical bugs still flowing at a good rate exist | 19:53 |
| jeblair | sdague, ttx: right, but there aren't any hard deadlines right now | 19:53 |
| ttx | jeblair: the RCS are not that time-sensitive. I'd rather softfreeze the week before release so that we can respin RCs quickly if need be | 19:53 |
| sdague | sure | 19:53 |
| ttx | if a RC has to wait another day due to wreckage, not that big of a deal | 19:53 |
| sdague | and what do we really mean by soft freeze? basically no zuul or nodepool upgrades? | 19:54 |
| sdague | it's definitely on the soft size | 19:54 |
| sdague | side | 19:54 |
| jeblair | sdague: unless we really want to, yes. :) | 19:54 |
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| ttx | so I'd say, hold off on weird changes (like Gerrit 2.8), and softfreeze from apr10 to Apr17 | 19:54 |
| clarkb | sdague: basically we tend to spend more time evaluating things (eg FFE) | 19:54 |
| sdague | basically just try to reduce high risk changes | 19:54 |
| fungi | and not schedule outages unless they're absolutely needed to get things un-broken | 19:54 |
| sdague | ttx: well gerrit is already pushed past that, so that's all good | 19:54 |
| ttx | sdague: yes, using it as an example | 19:55 |
| jeblair | so yeah, let's be cautious now, but not defer significant work yet, and instead expect a soft freeze around april 10-17 | 19:55 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:55 |
| fungi | so for example, not doing project renames while we're in a soft freeze | 19:55 |
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| sdague | fungi: yeh, that seems solid | 19:55 |
| ttx | frankly speaking, the following two weeks are less sensitive infra-wise than FeatureFreeze week | 19:55 |
| sdague | probably worth actually figuring out what soft freeze means :) | 19:55 |
| sdague | true | 19:55 |
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| ttx | so if you give me two weeks for freezing infra changes, I'd pick feature freeze week and release week | 19:56 |
| jeblair | #topic gerrit upgrade | 19:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "gerrit upgrade (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:56 | |
| jeblair | zaro: ? | 19:56 |
| clarkb | ttx: good to know thanks | 19:56 |
| zaro | you asked me about using WIP plugin for gerrit 2.8. still interested in that? | 19:57 |
| jeblair | zaro: yes, especially if we have a bit of extra time to look into it | 19:57 |
| jeblair | zaro: if the patch needed has landed in master, i think we can consider backporting it to 2.8 | 19:57 |
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| zaro | ok. i'll ask _david_ about which patches are necessary. | 19:58 |
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| jeblair | zaro: cool, thanks! | 19:58 |
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| jeblair | thanks everyone! | 19:58 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 19:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 25 19:58:45 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-03-25-19.01.html | 19:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-03-25-19.01.txt | 19:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-03-25-19.01.log.html | 19:58 |
| pleia2 | thanks jeblair | 19:58 |
| jeblair | hrm, meetbot and my clock don't agree | 19:59 |
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| pleia2 | 2 seconds off my time | 19:59 |
| anteaya | I have 2 seconds difference | 19:59 |
| pleia2 | actually, it's correct for when jeblair hit #endmeeting | 19:59 |
| fungi | ntp tells me 19:59:45 now | 19:59 |
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| anteaya | es | 19:59 |
| anteaya | yes even | 20:00 |
| fungi | (at teh sound of the tone, the time will be...) | 20:00 |
| annegentle | 2 seconds! | 20:00 |
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| jeblair | at the beginning of the lag, the time was .... | 20:00 |
| annegentle | :) | 20:00 |
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| ttx | o/ | 20:00 |
| dhellmann | hi, all | 20:00 |
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| sdague | o/ | 20:01 |
| jgriffith | o/ | 20:01 |
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| mordred | o/ | 20:01 |
| zehicle_at_dell | o/ | 20:01 |
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| ttx | russellb, markmc, jgriffith, vishy, markmcclain, lifeless : around ? | 20:02 |
| lifeless | for my sins | 20:02 |
| jgriffith | present | 20:02 |
| ttx | I think markmcclain may miss | 20:02 |
| ttx | mikal is absent | 20:02 |
| devananda | o/ | 20:02 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 25 20:02:37 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:02 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:02 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
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| ttx | may have to adapt it since Mark asked to push back on the Neutron plan review | 20:03 |
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| ttx | we'll talk about future meetings in election season in the open discussion section at the end of the meeting | 20:03 |
| ttx | #topic Integrated projects and new requirements: Gap analysis for Cinder | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Integrated projects and new requirements: Gap analysis for Cinder (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| ttx | jgriffith: did you prepare a base document to support our discussion ? | 20:04 |
| jgriffith | ttx: no but I can, real quick | 20:04 |
| jgriffith | stand by | 20:04 |
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| markmc | sorry | 20:04 |
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| russellb | o/ | 20:04 |
| zehicle_at_dell | ttx, can we add a sliver into the agenda to confirm the DefCore/TC meeting is on Friday? | 20:04 |
| jgriffith | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cinder-gap-analysis | 20:05 |
| ttx | zehicle_at_dell: sure, we can talk about that in open discussion at the end, but I think it's confirmed already | 20:05 |
| zehicle_at_dell | thanks | 20:05 |
| russellb | ttx: zehicle_at_dell other than the time | 20:05 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:05 |
| russellb | that wasn't clear on list, it was 8pm UTC, and then "7 8 UTC" | 20:05 |
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| jgriffith | ttx: you copy paste faster than I :) | 20:06 |
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| zehicle_at_dell | russell, sorry that was just a typo. | 20:07 |
| zehicle_at_dell | it's 8 UTC | 20:07 |
| russellb | zehicle_at_dell: no problem, just want to make sure i'm available at the right time | 20:07 |
| ttx | jgriffith: any area where you identified a gap ? | 20:07 |
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| russellb | not sure it's a gap, but in general there's probably better code sharing we could do between nova and cinder still | 20:07 |
| jgriffith | ttx: docs | 20:07 |
| jgriffith | ttx: as in documenting the items | 20:07 |
| jgriffith | ttx: as russellb pointed out a month ago :( | 20:08 |
| ttx | on the minor side, we also need to formalize a cinder-coresec group | 20:08 |
| jgriffith | Defined scope | 20:08 |
| ttx | (contact points for handling vulnerability bugs) | 20:08 |
| jgriffith | I'm striking through the items that I *believe* are covered | 20:08 |
| ttx | jgriffith: sounds good | 20:08 |
| jgriffith | shout if I'm wrong anyone | 20:08 |
| jgriffith | ttx: yes, secgropu is a gap for sure | 20:08 |
| jgriffith | I've been relying on the sec team | 20:08 |
| ttx | I'll strike a few for you on the release management side | 20:08 |
| russellb | read through it, i don't think i have any concerns personally | 20:09 |
| russellb | curious how you feel the heath of your core team is these days? | 20:09 |
| russellb | reviews look more balanced than they used to be a long time ago, so seems good? | 20:10 |
| jgriffith | russellb: I think it's good | 20:10 |
| russellb | cool | 20:10 |
| sdague | jgriffith: while clearly not a blocking item, one thing that I'd like to see in juno is some additional functional testing on the volumes code. It seems like when we get to a certain number of volumes tests we end up tripping up, and would be nice to be able to beat on it harder some how in juno. | 20:10 |
| jgriffith | russellb: review balance is MUCH better | 20:10 |
| russellb | awesome | 20:10 |
| jgriffith | sdague: fair, and agreed | 20:10 |
| jgriffith | sdague: so that's a comment to add to the analysis here? Or a seperate topic? | 20:11 |
| sdague | but honestly, I find the cinder team is very responsive to issues that we hit there | 20:11 |
| ttx | sdague: add under "decent functional tests coverage" ? | 20:11 |
| russellb | jgriffith: really, in general, very nice work to the whole cinder team | 20:11 |
| jgriffith | now that I just crossed that setion out :) | 20:11 |
| jgriffith | russellb: we've got some good dedicated folks now | 20:11 |
| jgriffith | stable | 20:11 |
| sdague | ttx: yeh, probably an addendum there. Honestly, things are in pretty good shape, so I could go either way about recording it there or saying "we should do more" | 20:11 |
| jgriffith | I'd like to have a section for notes/suggestions at the bottom | 20:12 |
| russellb | jgriffith: +1 | 20:12 |
| russellb | i can think of some minor things for that, but no real gaps | 20:12 |
| jeblair | they're especially great at dealing with the fact that we blame them for lots of bugs because their tests happen to be the ones that actually error out. :) | 20:12 |
| sdague | heh | 20:12 |
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| jgriffith | jeblair: haah | 20:12 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 20:12 |
| jgriffith | oh, there's a fantastic point | 20:13 |
| mordred | jeblair: dosen't that mean that they should then fix other people's bugs? if it's their tests that fail? | 20:13 |
| ttx | http://russellbryant.net/openstack-stats/cinder-reviewers-90.txt looks good to me | 20:13 |
| jgriffith | "code sharing between nova and cinder" | 20:13 |
| annegentle | jgriffith: my only input would be that you have a good docs bridge in thingee | 20:13 |
| sdague | it would actually be interesting if we could get some high io nodes for tests to be able to beat on | 20:13 |
| annegentle | jgriffith: so maybe lean on Mike to fill in the docs gaps | 20:13 |
| russellb | jgriffith: that's the biggest thing i can think of, and it's not a huge deal | 20:13 |
| jgriffith | annegentle: I have been :) Don't want to take advantage of him | 20:13 |
| annegentle | jgriffith: yup :) | 20:14 |
| ttx | http://www.stackalytics.com/?release=icehouse&metric=commits&project_type=all&module=cinder-group&company=&user_id= looks sane too | 20:14 |
| russellb | nice balance there | 20:15 |
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| russellb | jgriffith: you guys going to push for driver CI? | 20:15 |
| russellb | just curious really | 20:16 |
| jgriffith | russellb: indeed | 20:16 |
| jgriffith | russellb: we are | 20:16 |
| jgriffith | russellb: but there's already some angst | 20:16 |
| russellb | heh, i'm sure | 20:16 |
| jgriffith | I'm leaning towards opt in for Juno and see how it goes | 20:16 |
| jgriffith | I'd like to think folks will step up on their own | 20:17 |
| * mordred predicts it will not go anywhere until it's mandatory, based on past experience | 20:17 | |
| jgriffith | no threats etc | 20:17 |
| ttx | jgriffith: so it looks like gap is just public docs and coresec team | 20:17 |
| * mordred hopes jgriffith is right | 20:17 | |
| ttx | the remaining ones are just recommendations | 20:17 |
| jgriffith | ttx: I can live with that | 20:17 |
| jgriffith | yeah, probably shouldn't turn it into a design summit session :) | 20:17 |
| ttx | jgriffith: what would be your plan to tackle both ? | 20:17 |
| jgriffith | The doc part is easy | 20:18 |
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| ttx | I guess we can solve cinder-coresec in a matter of days | 20:18 |
| jgriffith | wiki page with the official stuff | 20:18 |
| ttx | just find a couple volunteers we can hassle | 20:18 |
| jgriffith | coresec that's sort of hard | 20:18 |
| jgriffith | ^^ the volunteers part :) | 20:18 |
| russellb | just make it you :-p | 20:18 |
| ttx | I have names I can suggest from the past :) | 20:18 |
| jgriffith | russellb: might not be very secure | 20:18 |
| jgriffith | ttx: that would be great | 20:18 |
| ttx | anyway, I think we can even solve that one prerelease | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | jgriffith: it's just an initial contact, right? you can pull in help | 20:19 |
| ttx | will be in touch | 20:19 |
| jgriffith | dhellmann: I would hope so yes | 20:19 |
| ttx | yes, it's just the set of folks we add to bugs in the first step | 20:19 |
| russellb | yep that's the idea | 20:19 |
| jgriffith | dhellmann: but I would like to have folks that are more security minded than I keeping an eye on things | 20:19 |
| ttx | then those can add more to the ACL | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | jgriffith: sure | 20:19 |
| sdague | mordred: it will be interesting data to see if voluntary works | 20:19 |
| ttx | "doc part is easy": do you have an ETA on that ? pre-release ? juno-1 ? | 20:20 |
| russellb | nobody did it for nova until it was mandatory | 20:20 |
| sdague | and actually really good to have data on the various approaches for driver testing from nova, neutron, and cinder | 20:20 |
| russellb | fwiw | 20:20 |
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| jgriffith | sdague: I'm not sure I want to do a blast call for volunterrs | 20:20 |
| mordred | sdague: ++ | 20:20 |
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| ttx | #info two gaps identified: public docs and cinder-coresec team | 20:20 |
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| ttx | jgriffith: "doc part is easy": do you have an ETA on that ? pre-release ? juno-1 ? | 20:20 |
| jgriffith | Monday | 20:21 |
| ttx | ok, pre-release | 20:21 |
| jgriffith | I'll quit putting it off finally | 20:21 |
| ttx | #info Both gaps shall be addressed before icehouse release | 20:21 |
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| ttx | OK, I think that covers it for me. More comments/suggestions ? | 20:21 |
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| jgriffith | thanks for the input everyone | 20:22 |
| jgriffith | I'd like to focus on some of those suggestions for juno | 20:22 |
| annegentle | doc deadlines are good! :) | 20:23 |
| ttx | Last question on this: any suggestion on which project we should cover next ? | 20:23 |
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| ttx | we emptied our list of TC+PTL projects | 20:23 |
| ttx | (although we still need to reveiw and bless neutron's plan) | 20:24 |
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| russellb | python -c 'import random ; print random.choice['swift', 'ceilometer', ...]' | 20:24 |
| russellb | syntax fail | 20:24 |
| sdague | heh | 20:24 |
| russellb | how about ceilometer? | 20:25 |
| ttx | ok, nothing urgent ? I heard some people wanting we do ceilometer next | 20:25 |
| russellb | there we go :) | 20:25 |
| ttx | OK | 20:25 |
| sdague | well, what about asking existing PTLs for volunteers | 20:25 |
| lifeless | crickets | 20:25 |
| sdague | because there will need to be prep work for a bunch of them | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | yeah, it's going to take some time to put together the docs, we should give them a heads-up | 20:25 |
| ttx | sdague: there is a bit of a timing issue with PTL elections, which we'll discuss in open discussion at the end of meeting | 20:26 |
| sdague | and making sure they are able to schedule the prep work would be good | 20:26 |
| sdague | ttx: sure | 20:26 |
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| ttx | ok, let's go back to this at end of meeting | 20:26 |
| ttx | #topic New graduation / post-graduation requirements | 20:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "New graduation / post-graduation requirements (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:26 | |
| ttx | This has been split into three separate changes: | 20:26 |
| ttx | * Add API graduation/post-graduation requirements (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/68258/) | 20:26 |
| ttx | * Add Heat integration post-graduation expectation (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81773/) | 20:26 |
| ttx | * Add Horizon integration post-graduation expectation (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81774/) | 20:26 |
| ttx | I think they all "officialize" defacto policy | 20:27 |
| ttx | I'm personally fine with all of those. Any more discussion needed on that ? | 20:27 |
| mordred | I think they're great- except I think that the horizon one is too vague/loose | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | is the plan to list each project like that? for example, should jd__ or I propose one to add ceilometer? | 20:27 |
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| mordred | not enough to suggest a change - just saying, I think it's too friendly | 20:27 |
| sdague | I'm still a little skeptical on heat at this point, just because even though it's integrated, it's really minimally tested and documented compared to other projects | 20:27 |
| annegentle | I still feel like we have a lost opportunity for better user experience by better defining the Dashboard or CLI requirements from an end-user perspective | 20:28 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: if you think ceilometer integration should be a post-graduation pre-release thing, yes | 20:28 |
| russellb | we can always make it more strict later | 20:28 |
| russellb | the heat/horizon stuff is listed as post-graduation right now | 20:28 |
| russellb | better than not listed at all | 20:28 |
| annegentle | so yea, concerns with vagarity, but are we actually relying too heavily on Horizon the project when there's a larger design need? | 20:28 |
| sdague | I'm personally bootstrapping on heat right now to help on the testing front, and you run into walls pretty quick unless you go and read the heat source code | 20:28 |
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| devananda | not to be pedantic, but I'd like to understand what determines whether a given project "makes sense" to integrate with existing projects (heat, ceilometer, horizon, etc) | 20:29 |
| ttx | mordred, devananda: so you'd rather keep case-by-case intgegration guidelines ? | 20:30 |
| ttx | mordred, devananda: because there is no one-size-fits-all wrt integration ? | 20:30 |
| devananda | ttx: or perhaps merely be more explicit about when it is / isn't expected | 20:31 |
| mordred | I'm not saying that at all | 20:31 |
| mordred | I'm saying "projects should have support in horizon" not "projects should be supported in horizon if it makes sense" | 20:31 |
| devananda | ttx: if "it makes sense to teh TC at the time the project applies to incubation" is clearer, taht's fine. | 20:31 |
| mordred | I think "if it makes sense" makes the statement meaningless | 20:31 |
| devananda | eg, heat integration for ironic does not make sense /to me/, because I think we get that via nova | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | that goes to what markmc said in one of the review comments about requiring an API and tripleo -- it feels weird to me to say that only API projects are integrated, especially if that means our deployment tool won't be | 20:32 |
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| dhellmann | at the same time, I don't know if tripleo needs to be integrated with horizon, so... | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | (at least not in the sense that we mean for these other projects) | 20:32 |
| sdague | devananda: ironic is never expected to be called directly without nova? | 20:33 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I wouldn't call tripleo a deployment tool, but I see your underlying point | 20:33 |
| devananda | but the current wording does not specify to whom a given project integration should make sense | 20:33 |
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| mordred | I think I could reword my opposition to the current wording based on what devananda just said | 20:33 |
| devananda | sdague: not never -- but it makes no sense to me for heat to do node enrollment | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | devananda: isn't it implied that judgement is left up to the TC? | 20:33 |
| markmc | dhellmann, the idea is definitely for tripleo to be integrated with horizon - i.e. as a UI for managing OpenStack itself | 20:33 |
| devananda | dhellmann: the whole point of these changes is to make explicit what is currently implicit :) | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | markmc: so there will be a horizon UI page to talk to tripleo? | 20:34 |
| markmc | dhellmann, right | 20:34 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: 'tuskar' specifically | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | ah | 20:34 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: which is one of the projects under tripleo. | 20:34 |
| markmc | the "makes sense" part was mostly about whether Heat integration always "makes sense" | 20:34 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: tuskar builds on heat/nova/neutron/glance | 20:34 |
| markmc | e.g. is there any resource in ceilometer that should be provisionable via Heat | 20:34 |
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| lifeless | dhellmann: and tuskar-ui - the horizon code to do this - is *already* in the horizon programme | 20:35 |
| mordred | I could also see there being horizon integration for ironic that makes sense | 20:35 |
| dhellmann | lifeless: ok, I'm behind in my tracking of tripleo so thanks for filling that in :-) | 20:35 |
| lifeless | its not in the main repo yet AIUI but thats because tuskar isn't incubated yet | 20:35 |
| lifeless | horizon pages for Ironic totally makes sense | 20:35 |
| markmc | for me, the precise wording isn't a big deal | 20:35 |
| lifeless | for admins | 20:35 |
| sdague | so maybe my concerns will all be addressed when we do the heat project review and get a gap plan in place | 20:35 |
| mordred | markmc: wasn't there an idea that ceilometer would inform heat about things to be able to make scaling decisions on things? | 20:36 |
| markmc | it's about getting it onto the radar of prospective projects that we will look at their level of heat and horizon integration | 20:36 |
| sdague | mordred: it does that | 20:36 |
| ttx | sdague: we should do heat next! | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | mordred: alarms are already implemented, yes | 20:36 |
| mordred | yah. so that woudl be the ceilometer heat integration, no? | 20:36 |
| markmc | mordred, yeah, that's different from the kind of integration described by the requirement, though | 20:36 |
| mordred | perhaps calling out explicitly that integrated projects should integrate with each other, rather than enumeration or specific projects then? | 20:36 |
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| ttx | timeboxing this to 4 more minutes, then we should continue discussion on the review itself | 20:37 |
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| mordred | ttx: I can shut up and move this offline | 20:37 |
| markmc | I think we're over-thinking this :) | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | mordred: I thought about that too, but we need a matrix *somewhere* for the reviews, so might as well put it here | 20:37 |
| mordred | I'm mostly happy with the sentiment | 20:37 |
| mordred | dhellmann: kk | 20:37 |
| sdague | I'm 100% good with openstack stuff should integrate well with other openstack stuff. Like the fact that glance and cinder use swift when appropriate (and would expect other things that want to store data to do the same) | 20:37 |
| ttx | mordred: no no 4 more minutes is fine :) | 20:37 |
| sdague | do we really want to call out only heat and horizon in this regard | 20:37 |
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| markmc | we're calling out some obvious/likely integration points, that's all | 20:38 |
| sdague | ok | 20:38 |
| mordred | sdague: I think that's the question - do we want to make a matrix? or do we want to perhaps make a list at incubation time of things we expect a project to integrate with? | 20:38 |
| ttx | sdague: I think the idea was to acknowledge that horizon panels won't land in horizon until the project is graduated and in the integration cycle | 20:38 |
| mordred | so that it's custom-fit for each project at a time | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | sdague: I'd like to add ceilometer, at least for metering resources managed by the project -- where appropriate | 20:38 |
| markmc | what else would be on the list? | 20:38 |
| devananda | ttx: that seems backwards | 20:38 |
| markmc | as obvious integration points that most projects should consider? | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | mordred: a list at incubation time is another good way to handle it | 20:38 |
| devananda | ttx: eg, nova.virt.ironic has to land befoer ironic graduates. why would a horizon ironic panel have to land *after* graduation? | 20:39 |
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| ttx | devananda: it's different, because you're replacing functionality that exists in nova | 20:39 |
| devananda | ah | 20:39 |
| ttx | so you fall under the "replacing stuff" guidelines | 20:39 |
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| dhellmann | devananda: the work might be done before graduation, but not committed until after | 20:39 |
| mordred | I think that, since it's possible to have external horizon panels | 20:40 |
| ttx | dhellmann: it's usually done before and shipped as an add-on | 20:40 |
| mordred | that one could argue that having a horizon panel could be a graduation requirement | 20:40 |
| dhellmann | ttx: right, I meant committed to horizon | 20:40 |
| mordred | but having it inside of horizon is a post-graduation action | 20:40 |
| ttx | mordred: it actually is. As an add-on | 20:40 |
| mordred | right. I'm saying as a policy clarification | 20:40 |
| devananda | right. otherwise, I'll postpone work on integration with horizon until after Juno, which seems to be the opposite of what this change says | 20:40 |
| * dhellmann loves it when we all agree | 20:40 | |
| ttx | awesome, let's move on then :) | 20:40 |
| mordred | horizon panel good. four legs bad | 20:40 |
| devananda | :) | 20:41 |
| ttx | continue on the review if needed | 20:41 |
| sdague | so I think there was something else that got lost previously as well about upgrade jobs | 20:41 |
| ttx | #topic Add the requirements repo to the release program | 20:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add the requirements repo to the release program (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:41 | |
| sdague | I'll propose that as another review | 20:41 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82167/ | 20:41 |
| ttx | This was proposed following the discussion from last week | 20:41 |
| ttx | I'm fine with it but since it used to be an orphaned project under the TC supervision, I'll wait for this to reach the normal approval threshold (7 YES) before approving it | 20:41 |
| ttx | Comments on that one ? | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | one point that was raised was what this would do to the list of people who vote on the release manager position | 20:42 |
| jeblair | it has >7 yes now. :) | 20:42 |
| ttx | jeblair: dammit | 20:42 |
| mordred | ttx: does that mean that you're now the person who nominates and manages core? | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | I don't think that matters myself, but I wanted to point it out | 20:42 |
| ttx | mordred: I delegated that to dhellmann successfully :) | 20:42 |
| mordred | ttx: nicely done | 20:43 |
| jeblair | nice | 20:43 |
| * dhellmann feels tricked | 20:43 | |
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| ttx | mordred: I don't feel comfortable editing and suggesting with my petty number of requirements-core reviews | 20:43 |
| ttx | arguably I wasn't even core myself a week ago | 20:43 |
| ttx | I'm happy to select the right person though | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | I've only proposed removing a few inactive members, with no response afaict | 20:44 |
| annegentle | oh good point, hadn't thought of that | 20:44 |
| ttx | i'm also happy that we get requirements patch authors to vote in the release management program PTL election now | 20:44 |
| annegentle | yeah sounds like ttx has himself a core team | 20:44 |
| ttx | adds a bit of diversity | 20:44 |
| ttx | dhellmann: cool, nuke'em | 20:44 |
| anteaya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Release_Cycle_Management | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | ok | 20:44 |
| mordred | woot! I get to vote on ttx | 20:45 |
| anteaya | for release cycle electorate | 20:45 |
| russellb | go go ttx | 20:45 |
| ttx | we also consider PTLs as release program members fwiw | 20:45 |
| ttx | (integrated projects ptls) | 20:45 |
| ttx | Anyway.. next topic then | 20:46 |
| ttx | #topic Minor governance changes | 20:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Minor governance changes (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:46 | |
| ttx | * Add nova-specs to the Compute program [https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81374/] | 20:46 |
| ttx | Russell +1ed so I'll approve now unless someone objects | 20:46 |
| ttx | * Add ironic-python-agent to Ironic program [https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82157/] | 20:46 |
| ttx | Devananda +1ed so i'll approve now unless someone objects | 20:46 |
| ttx | * Adds incubated and integrated release names to programs.yaml [https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81859/] | 20:46 |
| ttx | I think this one needs a few format changes and iterations before landing | 20:46 |
| ttx | annegentle: feel free to rebut my rebuttal. | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: thanks, I updated the wiki page | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | oops, I mean anteaya | 20:47 |
| anteaya | dhellmann: thanks | 20:47 |
| anteaya | we get each others mail all the time | 20:47 |
| annegentle | heh | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | auto-complete fails again | 20:48 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:48 | |
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| ttx | Wanted to quickly discuss whether we should hold TC meetings during the PTL election season, which starts Friday | 20:48 |
| ttx | We still have two potential meetings before the TC election process starts | 20:48 |
| anteaya | #link election timing: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-March/030444.html | 20:48 |
| ttx | But I wonder if we should have more "integrated projects vs. new requirements" reviews while the PTL elections are running | 20:48 |
| mordred | ttx: I'd say yes - we can still review current state | 20:48 |
| ttx | markmcclain asked that we postpone the plan review until mid-April | 20:48 |
| jeblair | i think so, we have so many of those to do i don't want to get further behind | 20:49 |
| ttx | so that would be for the new committee | 20:49 |
| mordred | and running for PTL isn't exactly like running for president in the US | 20:49 |
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| lifeless | meetings should keep going IMO | 20:49 |
| lifeless | we have a full plate | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | +1 to continuing | 20:49 |
| markmc | and we should be nervous if a new PTL means a radically different direction for a project | 20:49 |
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| mordred | ++ | 20:49 |
| ttx | OK, so let's continue during the PTL election season | 20:49 |
| jeblair | if you are running for president in the us, i think we can excuse you from the meetings. | 20:49 |
| russellb | markmc: +1 | 20:50 |
| ttx | we'll still skip the two weeks of the TC election process, right ? | 20:50 |
| mordred | jeblair: bah. an hour a week is not that much time to ask :) | 20:50 |
| mordred | ttx: why? | 20:50 |
| ttx | mordred: dunno, that's what we used to do in the past | 20:50 |
| ttx | tradition, you know | 20:50 |
| mordred | ttx: we skipped meetings a lot in the past | 20:50 |
| russellb | i think we have too much to do | 20:50 |
| ttx | like killing turkeys | 20:50 |
| mordred | I think we should potentially meet more, not less | 20:50 |
| russellb | +1 | 20:50 |
| * dhellmann has some patches mordred could write if he needs more to do | 20:50 | |
| sdague | yeh, might as well push forward | 20:50 |
| russellb | keep pushing through, if the group changes the next week, so be it | 20:50 |
| russellb | but push forward | 20:50 |
| sdague | agree | 20:51 |
| russellb | we can't skip 4 weeks every 6 months | 20:51 |
| russellb | IMO | 20:51 |
| sdague | at least 6 of us will be here through it anyway | 20:51 |
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| ttx | OK, I just didn't want having TC meetings during election giving undue exposure to current members seeking reelection | 20:51 |
| dhellmann | sdague: good point | 20:51 |
| ttx | but if everyone is fine with that, let's just do it | 20:51 |
| dhellmann | ttx: anyone can come to these meetings, right? | 20:51 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: yes | 20:51 |
| annegentle | ttx: yeah continuity is valuable | 20:52 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:52 |
| ttx | ok, great. That's all I had | 20:52 |
| sdague | I think if people have a grudge against a tc member, it's not going to dramatically get better or worse during election week | 20:52 |
| ttx | anything else anyone ? | 20:52 |
| *** mrda_away is now known as mrda | 20:52 | |
| ttx | zehicle_at_dell: did you get all the clarification you wanted for the defcore meeting time ? | 20:52 |
| zehicle_at_dell | ttx, yes | 20:53 |
| ttx | zehicle_at_dell: I'll miss it, I have a real-life city council to attend | 20:53 |
| jeblair | russellb: did you get the clarification you wanted for the meeting time? | 20:53 |
| * ttx is elected to too many official positions | 20:53 | |
| russellb | yes | 20:53 |
| russellb | 8pm UTC | 20:53 |
| ttx | zehicle_at_dell: you have 6minutes if you want to quickly expose defcore progress. From what I saw you made great progress recently | 20:54 |
| ttx | mikal is absent but I think annegentle could corroborate | 20:54 |
| annegentle | real life city council! | 20:54 |
| ttx | annegentle: small city. | 20:55 |
| annegentle | I do apologize for derailing the email thread there. | 20:55 |
| zehicle_at_dell | ttx, ok | 20:55 |
| zehicle_at_dell | Basically, we've almost completed the first pass on the capabilities scoring | 20:55 |
| ttx | zehicle_at_dell: what do you think about the suggestion to hold all the discussion on defcore list ? | 20:55 |
| zehicle_at_dell | I think that's one of the critical things for people to review | 20:55 |
| ttx | cross-posting to TC list makes it a bit weird to follow | 20:55 |
| *** ttrifonov_zZzz is now known as ttrifonov | 20:56 | |
| ttx | especially with delayed moderation :) | 20:56 |
| zehicle_at_dell | because it gives early guidenance about some of the must-pass categories and gaps | 20:56 |
| zehicle_at_dell | I've been trying to add people to the DefCore list w/o moderation if I get to the request first | 20:56 |
| ttx | zehicle_at_dell: that's great -- I think we can remove openstack-tc from the cc: now | 20:57 |
| zehicle_at_dell | +1 | 20:57 |
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| sdague | zehicle_at_dell: any chance of getting some sample data for the tests off of real clouds in the near term. I feel like that would help inform the rest of the conversation with seeing what the wilds actually look like right now | 20:57 |
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| zehicle_at_dell | yes, we're working actively on that w/ RefStack | 20:58 |
| zehicle_at_dell | that's the idea w/ TCUP | 20:58 |
| zehicle_at_dell | and uploading the results to RefStack as a site | 20:58 |
| sdague | yep, just curious if you had an ETA for some initial sample set | 20:58 |
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| zehicle_at_dell | sdague, soonest possible. we're working on it. merging some code together | 20:59 |
| russellb | uploading to a site? | 20:59 |
| russellb | curious what that means | 20:59 |
| russellb | collection of results for all these different things it has been run against? | 20:59 |
| russellb | looks like we're out of time | 21:00 |
| ttx | ok, time is up... | 21:00 |
| russellb | can talk friday | 21:00 |
| ttx | more on friday! | 21:00 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone | 21:00 |
| annegentle | thanks all | 21:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 25 21:00:25 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-03-25-20.02.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-03-25-20.02.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-03-25-20.02.log.html | 21:00 |
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| ttx | dhellmann, dolphm, notmyname, jd__, markwash, jgriffith, russellb, stevebaker, david-lyle, markmcclain, hub_cap: (still) around ? | 21:00 |
| dolphm | o/ | 21:00 |
| russellb | o/ | 21:00 |
| jgriffith | yessir | 21:00 |
| david-lyle | o/ | 21:00 |
| notmyname | here (for a little bit) | 21:01 |
| * SergeyLukjanov sleeping near the irc client | 21:01 | |
| jd__ | looks like it | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:01 |
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| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: does it emit an audible ping every time we say your name to wake you up ? | 21:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 25 21:01:35 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:01 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, yup | 21:01 |
| ttx | Agenda: | 21:01 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:01 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, it helps ;) | 21:01 |
| *** radez is now known as radez_g0n3 | 21:01 | |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: that calls for a cron script | 21:02 |
| stevebaker | \o | 21:02 |
| ttx | #topic Progress towards RC1s | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Progress towards RC1s (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:02 | |
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| ttx | We are slowly making progress to wards the first release candidates | 21:02 |
| hub_cap | hi ttx | 21:02 |
| ttx | Let me list the ETAs | 21:03 |
| hub_cap | ttx we have one more we put in trove, fyi | 21:03 |
| ttx | #info Keystone expected tomorrow | 21:03 |
| ttx | #info Trove also expected tomorrow | 21:03 |
| ttx | #info Cinder, Glance expected Thursday | 21:03 |
| hub_cap | maybe thr ttx ;) | 21:03 |
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| ttx | #info Nova, Ceilometer expected Friday | 21:04 |
| ttx | #info Neutron, Swift, Horizon expected early next week | 21:04 |
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| stevebaker | and heat | 21:04 |
| ttx | #info Heat also expected early next week | 21:04 |
| ttx | I think I have everyone | 21:05 |
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| ttx | That also doubles as dates we expect to open Juno development on | 21:05 |
| ttx | and un-feature-freeze the frozen projects | 21:05 |
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| ttx | Then if new release-critical issues are found we open RC windows and spin new release candidates | 21:06 |
| ttx | ...until release day | 21:06 |
| dolphm | using backports from master to milestone-proposed? | 21:06 |
| ttx | dolphm: exactly | 21:07 |
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| ttx | That's why it's important to nail the release-critical bugs now. After, it's more painful to do so with backports and reviewers distracted by Juno | 21:07 |
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| ttx | (nothing impossible, just more painful) | 21:07 |
| ttx | Questions on that ? | 21:08 |
| dolphm | ++ everyone is chomping at the bit to land changes for juno | 21:08 |
| hub_cap | understatement :) | 21:08 |
| ttx | #topic Dependency freeze | 21:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Dependency freeze (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:08 | |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-March/030729.html | 21:08 |
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| ttx | In summary we'll soft-freeze openstack/requirements changes to master until we cut all the RC1s | 21:08 |
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| ttx | At which point we'll cut a milestone-proposed branch there for release branches to consume | 21:09 |
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| ttx | We are cleaning up the requirements-core group and will make sure the core reviewers are aware of this policy | 21:09 |
| sdague | yeh, I think everything that we need for the release besides the saraha client change is in | 21:09 |
| sdague | so I'd recommend no other changes at this point unless there is an rc bug they are attached to | 21:09 |
| ttx | yes, will send an email about this early tomorrow to requirements-core | 21:10 |
| ttx | Questions on that ? | 21:10 |
| dolphm | i haven't gotten a clear understand of how this affects dependencies ON clients | 21:10 |
| dolphm | specifically, horizon's dependency on a minimum keystoneclient version? | 21:11 |
| sdague | dolphm: that should be frozen at this point | 21:11 |
| sdague | unless it's an rc bug | 21:11 |
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| dolphm | i believe there's an RC bug for this issue | 21:11 |
| ttx | dolphm: I think david-lyle un-RCed it | 21:11 |
| ttx | the change password thing ? | 21:12 |
| dolphm | regardless, it'd be an exception if we release a keystoneclient tomorrow (0.7.0) and horizon wanted to require it? | 21:12 |
| dolphm | ttx: yes | 21:12 |
| sdague | dolphm: yes | 21:12 |
| ttx | dolphm: I would consider that an exception yes | 21:12 |
| sdague | because that forces the new version on everyone | 21:12 |
| dolphm | ttx: i think the RC target got restored this afternoon | 21:12 |
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| ttx | we must just weigh the benefits with the drawbacks, and make sure packagers are aware of it | 21:12 |
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| ttx | dolphm: hah! | 21:12 |
| ttx | things happen while I have dinner | 21:12 |
| sdague | dolphm: so the minimum client issue is something we need a better story on | 21:13 |
| dolphm | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1239757 | 21:13 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1239757 in python-keystoneclient "Let users update their own password with Identity API v3" [Wishlist,Fix committed] | 21:13 |
| dhellmann | ttx: the sun never sets on openstack | 21:13 |
| dolphm | sdague: ++ | 21:13 |
| sdague | because it seems like every time there is a client bump, everyone wants to pull up min version | 21:13 |
| sdague | even if it will work perfectly fine with the old version | 21:13 |
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| sdague | or as fine as it used to, with known bugs | 21:13 |
| ttx | sdague: in that case it probably wouldn't, but agree on the general case | 21:14 |
| sdague | sure so this is a major bump | 21:14 |
| ttx | this is the first time we do this freeze, so there may be some rough edges and dark areas left | 21:14 |
| dolphm | sdague: generally, i assume the community wants to consume new client features across projects, right? | 21:14 |
| sdague | dolphm: sure, but you can let users upgrade | 21:14 |
| sdague | we don't dump the min on sqla every time a new release comes out | 21:15 |
| ttx | sdague: they want to rely on a new feature of the client and expose it -- it's even arguably a feature | 21:15 |
| ttx | sdague: which is why I supported un-RCing it | 21:15 |
| dolphm | conversely, i could see keystoneclient wanting to *push* new features to be consumed by other projects (say, a new implementation of something under the hood) | 21:15 |
| sdague | ttx: relying on a new feature is a different thing | 21:15 |
| sdague | and actually something we shouldn't be doing at this point in the cycle | 21:15 |
| ttx | that said it's really a gap with some security impact | 21:15 |
| ttx | so it's a bit grey | 21:15 |
| ttx | david-lyle: around ? | 21:15 |
| david-lyle | this would be nice functionality to have in Horizon for Icehouse, but we've supported keystone v3 since Havana without it | 21:16 |
| dolphm | ttx: i'd like to understand the less-gray area first :) | 21:16 |
| ttx | david-lyle: would you consider it a new feature ? | 21:16 |
| dolphm | i mean, keystoneclient 0.7.0 is coming this week whether horizon requires it or not | 21:16 |
| david-lyle | it's a descrepency between v2.0 and v3 | 21:17 |
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| dolphm | ttx: technically, it's restoring a feature that was available in grizzly | 21:17 |
| ttx | dolphm: and it will contain a security fix that everyone will want to have anyway | 21:17 |
| dolphm | ttx: ++ | 21:17 |
| ttx | so in that case the min dep bump might be warranted for security reasons | 21:17 |
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| david-lyle | but we won't enable it without bumping the required client version | 21:17 |
| sdague | david-lyle: and there is no way to conditionally support it? | 21:18 |
| ttx | I think in that case we'll just accept the bump, but it's a bit of a special case (new version to close a CVE) | 21:18 |
| dolphm | if keystoneclient.__version__ > (0, 7) ? | 21:18 |
| dhellmann | david-lyle: are you checking the version of the installed client to see whether to enable it, or are you removing the code if the version doesn't go up? | 21:18 |
| sdague | dolphm: yeh | 21:18 |
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| david-lyle | we have the functionality blocked now, would reenable | 21:18 |
| david-lyle | we could add such a check if that's what it comes down to | 21:19 |
| ttx | anyway, let's move on. By thursday everything should be clearer there | 21:20 |
| ttx | dolphm: let's try this and come up with updated rules once we're done | 21:20 |
| dolphm | ttx: ack | 21:21 |
| ttx | #topic keystone v3 and plans for v2 (and how that affects other projects) | 21:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "keystone v3 and plans for v2 (and how that affects other projects) (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:21 | |
| ttx | russellb: floor is yours | 21:21 |
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| russellb | ah yes | 21:21 |
| russellb | so there was confusion in our last nova meeting, so i figured i'd bring it up here | 21:21 |
| russellb | i was able to catch up with dolphm a bit async from that | 21:21 |
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| russellb | but basically, there was confusion about the lifecycle of the keystone APIs and what it meant for projects like nova | 21:22 |
| russellb | v2 deprecated? if so, what does that mean for other projects, as well as deployers? | 21:22 |
| russellb | is that written out anywhere? | 21:22 |
| russellb | basically hoping dolphm can provide some clarity on what keystone folks have been thinking on this topic | 21:22 |
| annegentle | I share these concerns | 21:23 |
| dolphm | so, i think most of our strategy has gone undocumented so far, but our highest goal is to not break everyone :) | 21:23 |
| david-lyle | I'm concerned v2 is deprecated but v3 support is minimal | 21:23 |
| sdague | david-lyle: similar concerns | 21:23 |
| sdague | especially as it moves us from something we test a ton in the gate | 21:23 |
| russellb | i have a general bad feeling toward ever calling something deprecated unless you have a very specific timeline defined for when it can go away | 21:24 |
| dolphm | at russellb's suggestion, i filed https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/document-v2-to-v3-transition to follow up on that early in juno so we have something to share & talk about | 21:24 |
| sdague | being unsupported, and something we only test a little being official | 21:24 |
| dolphm | sdague: deprecated != unsupported | 21:24 |
| stevebaker | fwiw, heat is fully on v3 | 21:24 |
| dhellmann | dolphm: is it "frozen" then? | 21:24 |
| dolphm | sdague: i consider v2 to be fully supported, and will continue to be fully supported until it's removed -- likely in pieces | 21:24 |
| david-lyle | stevebaker: in the default domain only, I assume? | 21:24 |
| russellb | frozen different than deprecated to me | 21:24 |
| russellb | sends a different message | 21:25 |
| dolphm | dhellmann: save for serious issues, yes | 21:25 |
| dhellmann | russellb: right, I thought this might be a word-choice issue | 21:25 |
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| russellb | dhellmann: yeah, sounds like it could be ... | 21:25 |
| dolphm | russellb: we freeze v3 at milestone 2 every cycle as well... so i agree | 21:25 |
| stevebaker | david-lyle: sort of, we also have a special domain and create a project per stack, and a user per (some) resources | 21:25 |
| dhellmann | dolphm: maybe frozen isn't quite right either -- you're just not adding new features to v2? | 21:26 |
| russellb | so, 1) v2 still fully supported, 2) no timeline yet for when v2 would go away | 21:26 |
| russellb | is that correct? | 21:26 |
| dolphm | dhellmann: correct | 21:26 |
| dhellmann | I would call that "normal". Why is it marked as deprecated? | 21:26 |
| russellb | heh | 21:26 |
| morganfainberg | russellb, isn't the typical nomenclature, deprecated -> obsoleted -> removed? | 21:26 |
| russellb | we typically use "deprecated" to mean that it has been replaced and is scheduled to go away | 21:27 |
| dolphm | russellb: 1) correct 2) one of our motivations for deprecating v2 in icehouse was that A) v3 has parity with v2, B) that gives us two full releases until we have the option to *start* removing unused bits | 21:27 |
| jogo | russellb: Deprecated: v2 API is deprecated as of Icehouse in favor of v3 API and may be removed in K. | 21:27 |
| jogo | http://logs.openstack.org/55/82255/4/gate/gate-tempest-dsvm-full/b819624/logs/screen-key.txt.gz?level=WARNING | 21:27 |
| russellb | i don't see how it could be called deprecated when the majority of openstack itself doesn't use the new thing yet | 21:27 |
| dolphm | i expect things like public-facing auth to be supported in some capacity for quite a while, even if under the hood it's just middleware rewriting requests for the v3 app | 21:27 |
| russellb | just all sounds premature i guess | 21:28 |
| russellb | and confusing | 21:28 |
| devananda | dolphm: is marking it deprecated more a way to encourage projects to start moving away from it, rather than indicate that projects have already done so? | 21:28 |
| dolphm | devananda: ++ | 21:28 |
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| devananda | i think that disticntion is confusing some people, since AIUI, nova uses the latter terminology | 21:29 |
| russellb | fwiw, i consider the primary burden of that move to be on keystone itself | 21:29 |
| ttx | dolphm: I think there are other ways to encourage openstack projects to move away from it | 21:29 |
| jogo | I think that is backwards | 21:29 |
| russellb | i don't think a stick is helpful here | 21:29 |
| dolphm | russellb: agree | 21:29 |
| ttx | deprecation is more for users we don't control | 21:29 |
| ttx | not for projects we can encourage to move internally | 21:29 |
| dolphm | russellb: fwiw, keystoneclient 0.7.0 will finally let us start replacing code in other clients/services with much less code that will likely be accepted by those projects :) | 21:29 |
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| ttx | I think we should have a cross-project workshop on aligning to latest versions of APIs internally | 21:30 |
| ttx | ISTR other projects also being hit | 21:30 |
| russellb | so i think most people think of the status of the API as you describe it as not actually deprecated | 21:30 |
| russellb | and we shouldn't call it that until we have a specific timeline for when *external* users will be affected | 21:30 |
| annegentle | stevebaker: can heat not use v2 due to a need for domains? or roles? | 21:30 |
| russellb | including a clear timeline and migration plan for them | 21:30 |
| sdague | well the current deprecation does state "may be removed in K" | 21:30 |
| sdague | so that's pretty specific | 21:30 |
| annegentle | stevebaker: and how does heat use v3 when nova doesn't? | 21:30 |
| sdague | perhaps we remove that part of the deprecation message at least? | 21:31 |
| lifeless | annegentle: you can use v2 and v3 concurrently | 21:31 |
| david-lyle | horizon had to back from having v3 as the default because of lack of cross service support | 21:31 |
| annegentle | lifeless: so it's a matter of service catalog config? | 21:31 |
| lifeless | annegentle: heat needs domains to let non-admins use waitconditions | 21:31 |
| jogo | lifeless: only the v3 logic that was from v2 | 21:31 |
| lifeless | annegentle: yes, list both. | 21:31 |
| ttx | dolphm: I tend to agree with russellb on that one. Would rather remove the deprecation message and then advocate for v2->v3 moves at Juno design summit | 21:31 |
| ttx | then deprecate when you want users of the Api (not internal services) to move on | 21:32 |
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| sdague | at least until the official clients get support | 21:32 |
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| dolphm | ttx: on that note, what v2 *doesn't* have yet, is a way to advertise it's deprecated status to api end users -- i consider that a potential blocker to removing support later on that needs to be seriously considered | 21:32 |
| dolphm | for example, a deprecated HTTP header in responses | 21:32 |
| dolphm | all the deprecation advertising we're doing is really only within the openstack community, and for deployers | 21:32 |
| russellb | largely a terminology / communication issue | 21:33 |
| russellb | different uses of the terminology has caused some confusion here i think | 21:33 |
| stevebaker | annegentle: we need it for domains. There is a v2 shim which has the old limitation of requiring the stack launching user to be an admin | 21:33 |
| russellb | require it? | 21:33 |
| russellb | or can use it? | 21:33 |
| russellb | i think we've failed at some coordination here for some project(s) to require it, and others to not support it at all | 21:33 |
| dolphm | (lots of sudden IRC lag for me) | 21:33 |
| russellb | dolphm: same here | 21:33 |
| ttx | dolphm: same here | 21:33 |
| ttx | echo, too | 21:33 |
| dhellmann | dolphm: does any API have a way to advertise its deprecated status? | 21:34 |
| annegentle | stevebaker: lifeless: thanks, that's helpful | 21:34 |
| stevebaker | annegentle: the credentials we use in the non-default domain are only for a very few heat API operations (for nova server -> heat communication) | 21:34 |
| ttx | dolphm: if it's not targeted to users, should we remove that deprecation message ? | 21:34 |
| david-lyle | you can't use non-default domain users with services that don't support v3 | 21:34 |
| annegentle | dolphm: yes I think the user-facing communication needs to not mention deprecation | 21:34 |
| dolphm | dhellmann: i've seen proposals to alert clients at runtime, but haven't worked with anything functional myself | 21:34 |
| dhellmann | dolphm: ok, I wasn't sure if you were worried about following some sort of precedent | 21:35 |
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| ttx | david-lyle: everything openstack should absolutely move to v3. But marking it deprecated for openstack admins to see won't really make that happen | 21:35 |
| dhellmann | dolphm: I do like the idea of communicating with the client somehow, fwiw | 21:35 |
| russellb | ttx: i think that's the crux of this conversation | 21:35 |
| jogo | ttx: playing devils advocate here, why should we adopt keystone v3? | 21:35 |
| ttx | jogo: because users like things like domains ? | 21:36 |
| david-lyle | my argument is, you can't really use v3 fully so to mark v2.0 deprecated is flat wrong | 21:36 |
| jogo | what benifits does it provide? (re: incentive vs stick) | 21:36 |
| SergeyLukjanov | jogo, trusts support | 21:36 |
| dolphm | ttx: the deprecation message is still relevant... and i don't think it's doing any harm. the choice of language in it was fairly careful as well (*may* be removed) | 21:36 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | (not related to domains) | 21:36 |
| jogo | ttx: what about the hierarchial militancy? thats what I want | 21:36 |
| morganfainberg | SergeyLukjanov, trusts are in V2. | 21:36 |
| dolphm | dhellmann: i'd love to have a precedent to follow, if there's a good one :-/ | 21:36 |
| dhellmann | dolphm: how often does the deprecation message show up in logs? | 21:36 |
| SergeyLukjanov | morganfainberg, oops | 21:37 |
| dolphm | dhellmann: should be once | 21:37 |
| david-lyle | jogo: so move from v2 directly to v4 bypassing v3? | 21:37 |
| dhellmann | dolphm: no, but the sdk team might want to collaborate on setting up a protocol | 21:37 |
| ttx | dolphm: maybe "deprecated" is an overloaded term in that message | 21:37 |
| russellb | dolphm: thoughts on all this? willing to drop the deprecation title for now to avoid the mass confusion? | 21:37 |
| * russellb curses irc lag | 21:37 | |
| dolphm | dhellmann: that'd be great | 21:37 |
| jogo | I bring this up becasue of the recent nova v3 discussion -- where we had trouble coming up with a strong reason to make a major API rev | 21:37 |
| dolphm | dhellmann: also great for a cross-project workshop :) | 21:37 |
| dhellmann | dolphm: +1 | 21:37 |
| david-lyle | +1 | 21:37 |
| ttx | dhellmann: one on API versions ? | 21:37 |
| * dhellmann is looking forward to cross-project day in atlanta | 21:37 | |
| ttx | in general ? | 21:37 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, ++ | 21:38 |
| dhellmann | ttx: on advertising api version deprecation | 21:38 |
| dolphm | russellb: ttx: is there a better choice of words than "deprecated"? | 21:38 |
| russellb | and what deprecation means? :) | 21:38 |
| dolphm | "pending deprecation"? | 21:38 |
| russellb | i don't think it's actually deprecated based on the discussion | 21:38 |
| ttx | +1 for on API version deprecation in general | 21:38 |
| russellb | it's a fully supported thing even if you're not adding stuff | 21:38 |
| russellb | we just have work to do across openstack to migrate to it | 21:38 |
| dhellmann | yeah, it really seems like it's "stable" and we're still doing v3 development | 21:38 |
| ttx | dhellmann: file while you think about it | 21:38 |
| ttx | dolphm: "we are migrating away" ? | 21:39 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I'll leave that to dolphm, I don't want to run that session :-) | 21:39 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, i would classify v3 as stable, it is receiving new features, but it's not being broken. | 21:39 |
| ttx | it's almost 11pm here don't expect me to get creative | 21:39 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, stable, deprecated, etc all overloaded terms at this point | 21:39 |
| russellb | and once *that* is done, we can talk deprecation | 21:39 |
| russellb | deprecation means people outside of openstack itself have to take some action | 21:39 |
| russellb | some migration path | 21:39 |
| russellb | and i don't think we're quite at that point yet right? | 21:39 |
| russellb | i'm a little sore on marking things deprecated without a schedule to actually remove, i guess | 21:39 |
| dolphm | if there's a summit session on this, i'd like to start by defining "deprecated" :) | 21:39 |
| dhellmann | morganfainberg: true | 21:39 |
| devananda | russellb: ++ | 21:40 |
| ttx | russellb: ++ | 21:40 |
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| dhellmann | but a schedule was given, right? K? | 21:40 |
| jogo | dhellmann: heh yup | 21:40 |
| ttx | dhellmann: was it? | 21:40 |
| dhellmann | the question is, is that a real schedule because the other projects are going to be ready? | 21:40 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, that is the default, it would be easy to change that. | 21:40 |
| dolphm | dhellmann: havana shipped v2 and v3 side by side, both being labeled as "stable" (grizzly may have too) | 21:40 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, (default is +2) | 21:40 |
| jogo | ttx "Deprecated: v2 API is deprecated as of Icehouse in favor of v3 API and may be removed in K." | 21:40 |
| ttx | basically, the deprecation mechanism woirks for end user migration, not so well for internal API migration | 21:41 |
| jogo | http://logs.openstack.org/55/82255/4/gate/gate-tempest-dsvm-full/b819624/logs/screen-key.txt.gz?level=WARNING | 21:41 |
| russellb | ok well step back, we need to remove that schedule | 21:41 |
| russellb | because if stuff isn't migrated, that's unreasonable | 21:41 |
| russellb | IMO | 21:41 |
| dhellmann | it sounds like what we're asking is for the keystone team to *not* deprecate the V2 API until the rest of us are consuming it | 21:41 |
| dhellmann | and so we need to see about making *that* a priority | 21:41 |
| ttx | internal API migration has to happen prior to user-side deprecation | 21:41 |
| jogo | dhellmann russellb: ++ | 21:41 |
| jogo | that is the model glance is taking as well | 21:41 |
| jogo | they are deprecating old API after nova switches over | 21:42 |
| devananda | i was just trying to word that well | 21:42 |
| devananda | seems odd for keystone to set a schedule before other projects have migrated | 21:42 |
| * markwash nods | 21:42 | |
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| ttx | devananda: hence the "may" | 21:42 |
| ttx | devananda: because they have no real control over that | 21:42 |
| devananda | the deprecation message is telling users "you need to migrate by K becayse we may remove it" | 21:42 |
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| ttx | which is why I think internal API migration has to happen prior to user-side deprecation | 21:42 |
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| morganfainberg | dhellmann, i lied, can't remove the "removed in" part, need to update oslo-incubator for that. | 21:43 |
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| morganfainberg | dhellmann, sorry. | 21:43 |
| ttx | because otherwise you just can't have a realistic schedule | 21:43 |
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| morganfainberg | dhellmann, easy fix in either case. | 21:43 |
| dhellmann | morganfainberg: we can update the incubator :-) | 21:43 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, yesh. | 21:43 |
| ttx | russellb: looks like you could argue that in a thread, I'm pretty sure there will be suggestions of alternate wording there | 21:43 |
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| ttx | russellb: it's kind of urgent though since keystone was about to tag RC1 tomorrow | 21:44 |
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| ttx | markwash: your input for how you do glance will be wanted on that thread -- consistency is good | 21:44 |
| markwash | sounds fair | 21:44 |
| dhellmann | morganfainberg: I'd even consider a concurrent change, rather than changing the incubator and then syncing | 21:44 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, ++ | 21:45 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, was going to recommend that for ease of getting this through for RC. | 21:45 |
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| dolphm | russellb: is K* not a reasonable schedule? | 21:45 |
| * dolphm is about to give up due to IRC lag | 21:45 | |
| dhellmann | morganfainberg: just mention it in the commit message | 21:45 |
| russellb | i think a documented migration plan + implementation of replacement across openstack is a prerequisite to setting that timeline | 21:45 |
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| dhellmann | russellb: +1 | 21:45 |
| lifeless | dolphm: its not reasonable to spam operator logs for a year | 21:45 |
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| jogo | russellb: +1 | 21:45 |
| markwash | in that vain I'm a bit concerned about running "both v2 and v3 in the catalog" since that seems. . inconsistent with what glance is doing. . but that's a different can of worms | 21:45 |
| lifeless | dolphm: whether the timeframe is reasonable is entirely separate | 21:45 |
| ttx | Hopefully we'll get better at communicating cross-project priorities -- classic deprecation mechanism is not the way to push internal API migrations imho | 21:46 |
| markwash | and maybe I'm confused | 21:46 |
| ttx | russellb: continue on ML thread ? | 21:46 |
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| ttx | ah, we lost russell | 21:47 |
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| ttx | ok, let's quickly move on | 21:47 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: that reminds me, I do have something to mention quickly when we get to open discussion | 21:48 |
| ttx | #action russellb to quickly start a thread on keystone v2 deprecation | 21:48 |
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| ttx | quick let's action russellb and dolphm on plenty of things | 21:48 |
| morganfainberg | ttx ++ | 21:48 |
| ttx | as lonas the bot is on my side of the split | 21:48 |
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| ttx | arh, he's back | 21:48 |
| ttx | russellb: fyi #action russellb to quickly start a thread on keystone v2 deprecation | 21:48 |
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| ttx | #topic Red Flag District / Blocked blueprints | 21:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Red Flag District / Blocked blueprints (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:49 | |
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| ttx | Any other inter-project blocked work that this meeting could help unblock ? | 21:49 |
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| dhellmann | is anyone waiting on anything to land in oslo-incubator? | 21:49 |
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| ttx | that's a good one | 21:49 |
| * russellb stabs IRC | 21:49 | |
| russellb | I got the action | 21:49 |
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| ttx | dolphm: fwiw we moved to next topic, russell will start a thread asap to continue the discussion | 21:51 |
| ttx | netsplit rt: Any other inter-project blocked work that this meeting could help unblock ? | 21:51 |
| ttx | netsplit rt: <dhellmann> is anyone waiting on anything to land in oslo-incubator? | 21:51 |
| dhellmann | esp. oslo-incubator changes | 21:51 |
| ttx | Looks like not | 21:51 |
| jogo | dhellmann: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82675/ | 21:52 |
| jogo | just responded to your comment as well | 21:52 |
| sdague | jogo: did you get the oslo.messaging log=INFO patches around? | 21:52 |
| dhellmann | jogo: ack | 21:52 |
| markwash | I think we got our oslo-db utf8 stuff in, so glance is good AFAICT | 21:52 |
| dhellmann | jogo: +2 and sent to the rest of oslo-core for review | 21:52 |
| jogo | sdague: nova landed, cinder and ceilo are pending .. neutron doesn't use oslo.messaging yet | 21:53 |
| ttx | Oh, makes me think | 21:53 |
| sdague | ok | 21:53 |
| jogo | dhellmann: thank you | 21:53 |
| ttx | All: don't forget to sync relatively recent translations before cutting RC1s | 21:53 |
| stevebaker | heat not using oslo.messaging yet | 21:53 |
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| ttx | dolphm: do you have translations merges in keystone ? | 21:54 |
| jogo | so I am a bit concerned about ceilometer's polling of APIs ( http://openstack-in-production.blogspot.com/2014/03/cern-cloud-architecture-update-for.html ) | 21:54 |
| ttx | dolphm: answering my own quetsion: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/78525/ | 21:55 |
| ttx | jogo: maybe that would make a valid bug to bring to ceilo folks attention | 21:56 |
| ttx | jogo: not sure it's been turned into a bug yet though | 21:56 |
| dhellmann | ttx: +1 | 21:56 |
| * jogo files a bug | 21:56 | |
| ttx | jogo: ping jd__ when done and start discussion there ? | 21:57 |
| ttx | it's not completely too late yet :) | 21:57 |
| * ttx quickly moves on | 21:57 | |
| ttx | #topic Incubated projects | 21:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Incubated projects (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:57 | |
| sdague | honestly, I think it's too late to work on that for release :) | 21:57 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 21:57 |
| SergeyLukjanov | re sahara https://launchpad.net/sahara/+milestone/icehouse-rc1 | 21:57 |
| ttx | devananda, SergeyLukjanov, kgriffs: o/ | 21:57 |
| SergeyLukjanov | renaming finished, we'll be ready for rc1 next week | 21:57 |
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| ttx | you still have a couple weeks before you really need to cut RC1s | 21:58 |
| ttx | but as always the sooner the better | 21:58 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, yup, I think next week should be ok, Thu is the plan | 21:58 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, Apr 3 | 21:58 |
| ttx | just ping me when you want them | 21:58 |
| ttx | i'll be around | 21:58 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, yup, thank you | 21:58 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 21:58 |
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| ttx | anything anyone? | 21:59 |
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| dhellmann | I plan to send a message to the ML tomorrow about the plan for oslo library releases in juno | 21:59 |
| dhellmann | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Oslo/JunoGraduationPlans | 21:59 |
| SergeyLukjanov | dhellmann, sounds interesting | 22:00 |
| ttx | wow more complex than I'd have thought :) | 22:00 |
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| dhellmann | there are still some issues to resolve about alpha releases, but I think we have everything else worked out | 22:00 |
| ttx | dhellmann: sounds good (the message) | 22:00 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, ++ | 22:00 |
| kgriffs | ttx: we are close on rc1, have one more bug that I am checking on | 22:00 |
| kgriffs | it may slip to juno | 22:00 |
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| ttx | kgriffs: you have plenty of time, your callreally | 22:01 |
| ttx | ok, we need to clear the room | 22:01 |
| ttx | thanks everyone! | 22:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 25 22:01:35 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-03-25-21.01.html | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-03-25-21.01.txt | 22:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-03-25-21.01.log.html | 22:01 |
| russellb | thanks ttx | 22:01 |
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