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| enikanorov__ | hi | 14:00 |
| sbalukoff | Hello! | 14:00 |
| rm_work | hi | 14:00 |
| enikanorov__ | #startmeeting neutron lbaas | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 27 14:00:19 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is enikanorov__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_lbaas' | 14:00 |
| sballe | Morning | 14:00 |
| s3wong | hello | 14:00 |
| evgenyf | hi | 14:00 |
| rm_work | heya | 14:00 |
| edhall | hi | 14:00 |
| enikanorov__ | agenda for the meeting: | 14:00 |
| enikanorov__ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/LBaaS#Agenda_for_Meeting_27.03.2014 | 14:00 |
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| enikanorov__ | we've got two pages created recently: glossary and requirements | 14:01 |
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| vjay2 | hi | 14:01 |
| enikanorov__ | i'd like to start with any questions you may have for these pages | 14:01 |
| enikanorov__ | #topic LBaaS Glossary | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "LBaaS Glossary (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)" | 14:01 | |
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| enikanorov__ | any questions on the glossary? | 14:02 |
| enikanorov__ | seems to be none | 14:03 |
| rm_work | I still don't like the way VIP is defined for this project (not a problem with the glossary necessarily?) | 14:03 |
| rm_work | Is this not the time for that? :) | 14:03 |
| enikanorov__ | rm_work: what is your concerns, could you remind? | 14:03 |
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| enikanorov__ | *concern | 14:03 |
| sballe | I like the glossary. It makes things a little clearer | 14:03 |
| rm_work | There is a general definition of VIP as "Virtual IP" which is… not the definition here | 14:03 |
| rm_work | I know there were concerns regarding backwards compatibility | 14:04 |
| enikanorov__ | ok, the definition in the glossary states: | 14:04 |
| enikanorov__ | Object that represents an endpoint of load balancing device that has IP address. | 14:04 |
| enikanorov__ | In existing model it also has tcp port, protocol, session persistence setting. Vip is plugged into a subnet, so as an object, it has subnet attribute. | 14:04 |
| sbalukoff | True: Glossary lists only the current meaning of "VIP" in the Neutron LBaaS model-- not what it will mean should one of the proposed object models get chosen. | 14:04 |
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| enikanorov__ | is there something particular that you would like to change? | 14:05 |
| sbalukoff | Well, if we adopt object models 2 or 3 in the proposal, the meaning of VIP changes, correct? | 14:05 |
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| rm_work | Well, it mentions "in the existing model", I am wondering if that is the place to open discussion of what it should mean going forward | 14:05 |
| rm_work | or not | 14:05 |
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| rm_work | if not, ignore me and move on, we can discuss it later :) just want to be on record | 14:06 |
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| enikanorov__ | ok, i see. probably terms need their context, thus 'in current model' | 14:06 |
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| markmcclain | yeah I think it is important that the glossary not be a rigid definition of terms. If we're going to make changes to the API then it is likely we will need to make deliberate changes to how some items are described | 14:06 |
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| enikanorov__ | markmcclain: good to have you here! | 14:07 |
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| enikanorov__ | ok, lets move on to the requirements | 14:07 |
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| enikanorov__ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/LBaaS/requirements | 14:08 |
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| enikanorov__ | any questions/suggestions on requirements? | 14:09 |
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| sbalukoff | Yes: How specific do we want to be under "operator requirements" | 14:10 |
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| sbalukoff | And it'd be nice if someone could fill out a "use case" so we get an idea of the template we should be using for those. ;) | 14:10 |
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| enikanorov__ | sbalukoff: i think the first item is about ability to add appliances dynamically | 14:11 |
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| sbalukoff | "User requirements" looks pretty complete to me. I can't think of anything else to add there. | 14:11 |
| enikanorov__ | and that's quite clear requirement | 14:11 |
| markmcclain | I think this is a good start, but am concerned the requirements seem to imply physical boxes or appliances | 14:11 |
| enikanorov__ | on other operator reqs... we're still too far | 14:11 |
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| enikanorov__ | markmcclain: it's better to say backends, but yes, reqs imply that | 14:12 |
| sballe | I am not sure what is meant by "he load balancer shall have the ability to monitor the health of nodes and automatically remove/add them from/in rotation. " under Health Check monitoring | 14:12 |
| sbalukoff | markmcclain: Which ones? | 14:12 |
| markmcclain | no not backends but functions | 14:12 |
| sballe | Are we talking about the user' VM? | 14:12 |
| markmcclain | "A _user_ should be able to configure multiple tcp endpoints (Vips) for single IP address that point to the same pool of nodes" | 14:12 |
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| jorgem | sballe: The health monitor requirement is there so that bad backends/nodes can automatically be removed from serving traffic | 14:13 |
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| markmcclain | it seems that load balancer and user on conflated | 14:13 |
| markmcclain | s/on/are/ | 14:13 |
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| sbalukoff | markmcclain: I think that's so people can have http and https on the same IP. DNS limitations are going to dictate that in many cases. | 14:13 |
| jorgem | sbadia: example: i have 5 web servers being load balanced. 1 dies for some reason. the lb should not serve traffic to it | 14:13 |
| jorgem | sballe: sorry that was meant for you | 14:14 |
| sballe | I understand the requirement. I am just tryign to figure out what the use cases was. By node you mean the tenant's VM/nodes. | 14:14 |
| markmcclain | the requirements should focus on how the API should change to enable the user to take actions | 14:14 |
| enikanorov__ | sbalukoff: yes. and i think markmcclain is saying that it's per implementation whether same ip different port is on the same loadbalancer or not | 14:14 |
| german__ | sballe, jorgem: the add requirement seems excessive (indicating a spare pool of nodes) | 14:14 |
| sballe | jorgem, No problem. I agree with the requirements. I just wanted to make sure I 100% undertood what it says. | 14:14 |
| markmcclain | I'm not actually arguing the requirement | 14:14 |
| markmcclain | I'm saying the requirements should be stated from user or operator perspective | 14:15 |
| markmcclain | not that of the virtualized appliance | 14:15 |
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| enikanorov__ | in fact that consideration greatly affect or object model discussion | 14:15 |
| rm_work | german__: I think it just means "one of the nodes that was already taken offline, if it comes back online" | 14:15 |
| rm_work | german__: not that there would be additional pools of nodes | 14:15 |
| jorgem | sballe: I can modify it. Requirements should be very clear so I'll try to update it | 14:15 |
| sbalukoff | Oh! Ok, I see. | 14:15 |
| rm_work | so "remove, and add back" | 14:15 |
| german__ | yep, that sounds good | 14:16 |
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| sballe | german__, I agree when I read it I thought we were talking about a pool of standby nodes... | 14:16 |
| enikanorov__ | ok, anything else on requirements? | 14:16 |
| rm_work | honestly, "remove" and "add" may be the wrong terms there | 14:16 |
| rm_work | "disable traffic flow" and "restore traffic flow" are more accurate | 14:16 |
| sbalukoff | markmcclain: Just to I understand your concern: You'd like to see these requirements rephrased from a user's or operator's perspective. | 14:16 |
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| sballe | rm_work, agreed | 14:16 |
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| markmcclain | sbalukoff: yes | 14:17 |
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| jorgem | rm_work: that works for me | 14:17 |
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| sbalukoff | Not necessarily that the underlying implementation be considered, per se. | 14:17 |
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| markmcclain | it also makes it easier to use them to evaluate the API | 14:17 |
| sbalukoff | (in the stated requirement itself.) | 14:17 |
| jorgem | rm_work: so you want to update the requirement? | 14:17 |
| rm_work | jorgem: doing it now | 14:17 |
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| enikanorov__ | #action rephrase requirements so they are stated from user perspective | 14:18 |
| sballe | Do we have a requirement to monitor the LB themselves? | 14:18 |
| sballe | I do not see that anywhere | 14:18 |
| sbalukoff | sballe: Not yet. That should probably go under 'operator requirements' | 14:19 |
| enikanorov__ | agree | 14:19 |
| german__ | +1 | 14:19 |
| sbalukoff | (I'm assuming by 'LB' you mean 'appliance' as stated in the glossary) | 14:19 |
| jorgem | sbalukoff: +1 | 14:19 |
| enikanorov__ | lb - any backend, not necessarily an appliance | 14:19 |
| german__ | we could lump it under diagnostic -- but making it explicit might be better | 14:19 |
| tvardeman | +1 | 14:19 |
| crc32 | +1 | 14:20 |
| sballe | +1 | 14:20 |
| enikanorov__ | there is some work been done on that by obondarev | 14:20 |
| sbalukoff | enikanorov__: Ah yes, backend. | 14:20 |
| sbalukoff | Sorry, I'll try to use our defined terms, going forward. :) | 14:20 |
| enikanorov__ | ok, lets move on to the object model discussion | 14:20 |
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| enikanorov__ | so previously most of us tend to prefer approach which introduced loadbalancer object | 14:21 |
| enikanorov__ | and markmcclain had objections to that idea | 14:21 |
| enikanorov__ | markmcclain: could you please go over them again | 14:21 |
| sbalukoff | Correct! And we want to make sure those objections are understood. | 14:22 |
| sbalukoff | :) | 14:22 |
| enikanorov__ | right. so i feel those are connected to that API perspective approach | 14:22 |
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| markmcclain | the are connected to the aPI | 14:22 |
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| enikanorov__ | but I'm still not sure I understood those | 14:22 |
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| blogan | hello everyone | 14:23 |
| markmcclain | the API should be reflective of what a tenants wants to do | 14:23 |
| markmcclain | and not of how the backend implements it | 14:23 |
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| enikanorov__ | markmcclain: yes. one of such tasks is to be able to provide another VIP on the same IP address | 14:23 |
| enikanorov__ | the question is | 14:23 |
| jorgem | markmcclain: agreed | 14:23 |
| enikanorov__ | how tenant can express this intent via the API | 14:23 |
| enikanorov__ | ? | 14:23 |
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| markmcclain | enikanorov__: the intent the express is the functions they want on their network | 14:24 |
| enikanorov__ | agree. so I want http and https balancing on 1 ip address | 14:25 |
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| enikanorov__ | what kind of API calls will allow me to do that? | 14:25 |
| markmcclain | enikanorov__: that is what needs to be designed | 14:25 |
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| enikanorov__ | well, it is already designed, and we have several proposals already | 14:26 |
| jorgem | markmcclain: So how does introducing the load balancer object not allow that? | 14:26 |
| enikanorov__ | one is with loadbalancer | 14:26 |
| markmcclain | jorgem: not really | 14:26 |
| enikanorov__ | jorgem: i think the question is for me | 14:26 |
| enikanorov__ | it allows that by keeping neutron port for the loadbalancer configuration | 14:26 |
| enikanorov__ | so creating another vip for the configuration could share the port | 14:27 |
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| enikanorov__ | the details about the port are not exposed to the user though | 14:27 |
| markmcclain | enikanorov__: you're thinking too low level right now | 14:28 |
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| rm_work | possibly we need all of: Loadbalancer, Listener, Vip | 14:28 |
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| enikanorov__ | i'm thinking on API level. right now there is no way of specifying such method through API | 14:28 |
| enikanorov__ | and one of the ways is logical grouping at API level | 14:28 |
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| rm_work | Loadbalancer has a Vip, and: POST /api/loadbalancer/<lbid>/listener { port: 443, https, etc } | 14:29 |
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| rm_work | multiple listeners per Loadbalancer object | 14:29 |
| markmcclain | enikanorov__: the reason we cannot currently specify something is because current API is problematic | 14:29 |
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| rm_work | (that's what I would be thinking if i were a customer) | 14:29 |
| markmcclain | I think we need to decide what the ideal version of the API should look like and work from there | 14:29 |
| markmcclain | rm_work: but what does the lb object provide? | 14:30 |
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| enikanorov__ | the ideal version of API in my opinion, is when users accesses lbaas api as if they would access real LB | 14:30 |
| jorgem | markmcclain: I agree. The API could be made more user firendly | 14:31 |
| rm_work | LB object is a container for: Vip(1), Listeners(n) and some other stuff | 14:31 |
| enikanorov__ | so that's not only an API, but also a user expectation. users works with loadbalancer, which has vips, pools, etc | 14:31 |
| jorgem | +1 | 14:31 |
| enikanorov__ | that's how i see what user wants | 14:31 |
| markmcclain | enikanorov__: we're virtualizing the functions not the appliances | 14:31 |
| blogan | yes so a user expects to get a load balancer object when they use load balancing as a service | 14:31 |
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| sballe | blogan, +1 | 14:32 |
| markmcclain | I think a user only expects because that is was we constructed in the first iteration | 14:32 |
| tvardeman | blogan: +1 | 14:32 |
| german__ | +1 | 14:32 |
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| edhall | a tautology | 14:32 |
| ajo | project stats for tautology, 90 days | 14:32 |
| enikanorov__ | i think lbaas is not to widely used to create usr expectations | 14:33 |
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| enikanorov__ | existing lbaas API is fine - but for simplistic configurations only | 14:33 |
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| blogan | i mean neutron is networking as a service and users definitely expect to create networks | 14:33 |
| markmcclain | enikanorov__: the feedback I get from folks is they find the current API confusing | 14:34 |
| sbalukoff | markmcclain: Other 'aaS' services use a virtual representation of appliances, too. For example, neutron (ie. "network as a service") has concept of a 'router', and this doesn't correspond to anything physical per se (though it can). | 14:34 |
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| enikanorov__ | it both allows fine-grained control over the objects plus more 'user-friendly' APIs on top of that, like Heat have | 14:34 |
| sbalukoff | markmcclain: I find current API confusing as well because there's no "load balancer" in our LBaaS. :) | 14:34 |
| enikanorov__ | markmcclain: agree it's confusing, but if we fix that, that would not be a completely different API | 14:35 |
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| markmcclain | sbalukoff: the similar argument could be made about the router too | 14:35 |
| sballe | markmcclain, I second sbalukoff | 14:35 |
| rm_work | do we want people using LBaaS API, or using Heat? because it seems like basically anything I want to do with a LB keeps being moved up to the Heat layer :/ | 14:35 |
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| german__ | both :-) | 14:36 |
| jorgem | since its not part of core yet wouldn't now be the best time to change it? I understand there is a backwards compatibility concern but I would buy that if it were in core | 14:36 |
| enikanorov__ | rm_work: i think it's a bit another discussion | 14:36 |
| rm_work | enikanorov__: ok | 14:36 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: yeah…much larger scope | 14:36 |
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| sballe | rm_work, I wish we could integrate heat into LBaaS but still use LBaaS API to trigger LBaaS functiobality via heat. I believe other services are doing this | 14:36 |
| markmcclain | jorgem: now is the time to alter the aPI | 14:36 |
| enikanorov__ | that's what we're trying to do - change the API | 14:37 |
| jorgem | markmcclain: okay backwards compat. is a real concern I'm assuming | 14:37 |
| blogan | markmcclain: is now the time to drastically change the api and break backwards compatibility? | 14:37 |
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| rm_work | sballe: sounds interesting, but a two-way dependency seems scary to me | 14:37 |
| markmcclain | jorgem: yes backwards compatibility is a concern | 14:37 |
| rm_work | maybe I am thinking about it wrong, it's early :P | 14:37 |
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| enikanorov__ | i think the confusion of the existing API comes from some simplifications | 14:38 |
| jorgem | markmcclain: Okay, that's fine with me. How much can we alter then if it currently needs an update? | 14:38 |
| blogan | markmcclain: not breaking backwards compatibility is a big hinderance when it comes to fixing the api, unless those api calls are just deprecated but still work | 14:38 |
| sballe | rm_work, It could be for advanced capabilities and maybe for a set of LBaaS extension APIs | 14:38 |
| enikanorov__ | like pool object playing a role of 'loadbalancer' object | 14:38 |
| markmcclain | jorgem: I think we have the opportunity to define a new api | 14:38 |
| markmcclain | and provide compatibility with the old one | 14:38 |
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| sbalukoff | markmcclain: That's going to get confusing if we re-use terms. (eg. meaning of 'VIP' changes in object model proposals.) | 14:39 |
| markmcclain | blogan: we only have to provide compatibility at the rest layer | 14:39 |
| jorgem | markmcclain: That makes sense. I feel like we will eventually need to get in the groove of that so now is as good a time as ever | 14:39 |
| rm_work | markmcclain: doesn't that require a way to Version the API? unless we're not straying too far | 14:39 |
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| sballe | markmcclain, can we not use API versioning to ensure backwards compatibility for a little while? | 14:39 |
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| blogan | sballe: i dont think so since its a service plugin | 14:39 |
| sballe | rm_work, you were reading my mind ;-) | 14:39 |
| sbalukoff | Aah yes-- versioning the API could allow us to re-use terms that have been re-defined in later models. | 14:39 |
| enikanorov__ | i think backward compat is concern not for community only, but for vendors & users as well | 14:40 |
| markmcclain | we will need to provide rest compatibility | 14:40 |
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| enikanorov__ | that's why i'm only pro changing the API if it's staying in existing 'boundaries' | 14:40 |
| rm_work | sballe: i don't know neutron very well, so I don't know exactly how it works, but people keep asking about whether we can version or not, and so far it has sounded like NOT -- since we are a plugin for neutron, and it would have to be a neutron version | 14:40 |
| rm_work | I would love some final clarity on that | 14:40 |
| enikanorov__ | right now all 3 proposals can be made bw-compatible | 14:40 |
| markmcclain | for the main server we will be discussing and working on the v3 API | 14:41 |
| sballe | rm_work, I am learning myself which is why I maybe ask slilly questions. | 14:41 |
| rm_work | enikanorov__: I feel like most of those proposals were MADE to be bw-compatible on purpose, and i would like to see one where that is not necessarily a consideration | 14:41 |
| rm_work | sballe: well, i'm right there with you :) | 14:41 |
| markmcclain | during Juno, so that will provide an opportunity to design this api as we need and then provide backwards compat to v2 clients | 14:41 |
| sballe | rm_work, :) | 14:41 |
| markmcclain | rm_work: +! | 14:41 |
| rm_work | ok | 14:42 |
| blogan | markmcclain: so design a new API for v3 neutron now? | 14:42 |
| rm_work | so we'd have to version the new LBaaS API along with Neutron 3 | 14:42 |
| rm_work | that's… going to be a ways out, yes? | 14:42 |
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| markmcclain | blogan: yes work to clean up a few items and make some extensions core | 14:42 |
| sbalukoff | Juno release is this fall, right? That's not *that* far out. | 14:42 |
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| markmcclain | rm_work: yes there is an opportunity new versions of service plugins | 14:43 |
| rm_work | does "during Juno" mean "after the release"? | 14:43 |
| rm_work | so, AFTER this fall? | 14:43 |
| markmcclain | sbalukoff: correct … 6 months is very short | 14:43 |
| rm_work | or does it mean "to go with the Juno release" | 14:43 |
| rm_work | guessing latter | 14:43 |
| rm_work | just want to make sure | 14:43 |
| enikanorov__ | i think, if we're going to make new API | 14:43 |
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| markmcclain | tentatively starts offering the v3 api with juno | 14:43 |
| enikanorov__ | we may improve existing | 14:43 |
| rm_work | markmcclain: ok thanks | 14:44 |
| enikanorov__ | with some of the approaches | 14:44 |
| enikanorov__ | so users can evaluate it | 14:44 |
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| enikanorov__ | that also could help us create requirements for the new API and see what exactly was not good about the existing one | 14:44 |
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| enikanorov__ | markmcclain: how's that sounds? | 14:45 |
| markmcclain | we have a good start with the requirements wiki | 14:45 |
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| blogan | i am glad we have that and a glossary | 14:46 |
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| enikanorov__ | markmcclain: i mean, while v3 API is designed, may we work on improving v2? | 14:46 |
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| jorgem | markmcclain: So what I am hearing is start fresh on work towards a v3 API? That is the priority right now? | 14:46 |
| rm_work | +1 clean API break to go with Neutron v3 (and keep existing API backwards compatible, but do some mods as enikanorov__ proposes) | 14:46 |
| markmcclain | enikanorov__: depends on the work | 14:46 |
| markmcclain | jorgem: I think a fresh start is a good idea | 14:47 |
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| rm_work | take off the handcuffs | 14:47 |
| jorgem | I'm just trying to figure out what we should be focusing on right now | 14:47 |
| enikanorov__ | markmcclain: the most important reqs are multiple vips per pool and L7 rules, which were going to depend on 'loadbalancer' object | 14:47 |
| sbalukoff | SSL is also a big req. | 14:48 |
| jorgem | markmcclain: Ok. If that's the case we should really drill down on the requirements and prioritize them. | 14:48 |
| jorgem | Operator requirements are huge too | 14:48 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem: +1 | 14:48 |
| markmcclain | enikanorov__: they only depend on the load balancer object because that was the way they were implemented | 14:48 |
| markmcclain | jorgem: +1 | 14:48 |
| vjay2 | jorgem:+1 | 14:48 |
| crc32 | +1 | 14:48 |
| sballe | jorgem, +1 | 14:48 |
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| german__ | +1 | 14:48 |
| tvardeman | jorgem: +1 | 14:48 |
| blogan | markmcclain: what do you mean that is the way they were implemented? when? | 14:49 |
| sballe | resiliency/ha is a big on for us | 14:49 |
| enikanorov__ | markmcclain: yes, that is so, partially. but whole change will help to evaluate the new API and features it allows to do | 14:49 |
| sbalukoff | sballe: Us too! | 14:49 |
| enikanorov__ | markmcclain: so that will help to build v3 API | 14:49 |
| rm_work | blogan: i think he meant "proposed to be implemented" | 14:49 |
| jorgem | markmcclain: Rackspace can provide data to back up some of these requirement decisions too | 14:49 |
| jorgem | It would be nice for other operators to do the same | 14:49 |
| markmcclain | jorgem: great | 14:49 |
| sballe | markmcclain, so can HP cloud re: date to backyp requirements | 14:50 |
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| sbalukoff | jorgem: I think we could as well. | 14:50 |
| jorgem | sbalukoff: awesome | 14:50 |
| markmcclain | sballe: great | 14:50 |
| jorgem | I'm sensing an action item | 14:50 |
| sballe | jorgem, ;-) | 14:50 |
| markmcclain | if we can drive the design priority based on real usage that will be very helpful | 14:51 |
| jorgem | #action Provide operator data to aid in requirements discussion | 14:51 |
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| jorgem | For example, 90%ish of our cloud lbs are http and https | 14:51 |
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| jorgem | Thus, we would focus (from our perspective) on requirements that hit on http and https | 14:52 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem: It's more like 95% for us. | 14:52 |
| german__ | same here at HP Cloud | 14:52 |
| edhall | It's less than half for us | 14:52 |
| jorgem | However, I would like to get everyone's data pooled together to help in the decision process | 14:52 |
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| jorgem | edhall: Nice! Didnt' expect that | 14:53 |
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| jorgem | edhall: I'd be very interested to hear you average users use case | 14:53 |
| jorgem | edhall: And be glad to share ours :) | 14:53 |
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| edhall | In terms of traffic, HTTP/HTTPS of course. But LB is an internal HA mechanism as well. | 14:53 |
| enikanorov__ | ok, it makes sense to create another wiki with user scenarios then | 14:53 |
| markmcclain | glad we're getting some usage data will help to prioritize work | 14:54 |
| enikanorov__ | #action create wiki page to collect usage data | 14:54 |
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| blogan | markmcclain: are you 100% opposed to a load balancer logical model? | 14:55 |
| jorgem | Percentages are a good measure I think | 14:55 |
| sballe | markmcclain, I am worried that in some ares like resiliency while we all have the same need for HA that the requirements are different. | 14:55 |
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| sbalukoff | Doesn't look like we're going to get to talk about HA stuff today? should we plan on continuing that discussion on the mailing list? | 14:55 |
| markmcclain | blogan: I'm not 100% opposed | 14:55 |
| markmcclain | I just want to work through the functions a user needs and how they interact with it from the API | 14:55 |
| rm_work | enikanorov__: we are probably a ways out from discussing the precise role of Heat vs LBaaS API functionality? would that be next time, or TBD | 14:56 |
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| enikanorov__ | rm_work: ...or ML | 14:56 |
| jorgem | blogan: I think once we get data we can revisit that per the functions that get priority | 14:56 |
| rm_work | enikanorov__: ok, good point. | 14:56 |
| enikanorov__ | markmcclain: some say that users want virtualized appliances also | 14:56 |
| enikanorov__ | markmcclain: why can't we provide both? | 14:56 |
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| sballe | sbalukoff, re: Service resiliency I was hoping we had the time to discuss today.. ML will have to do until next meeting. | 14:57 |
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| sballe | enikanorov, Can we put HA/resiliency and the pool of standby approach on the next agenda? I'll do some homework before next meeting | 14:58 |
| rm_work | markmcclain: IME people like to interact with virtual things that are representations of what they're used to physically -- so to touch a LoadBalancer, they'd expect a LoadBalancer object. I suppose we could TRY to redefine that, but I can't think of a good reason why | 14:58 |
| enikanorov__ | sballe: sure we can | 14:58 |
| sbalukoff | sballe: Yep. | 14:58 |
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| markmcclain | enikanorov__: for virtualized appliances it will depends on which user you're talking about the tenant or service provider different use cases | 14:59 |
| enikanorov__ | tenant, not provider | 14:59 |
| enikanorov__ | i feel that API could provide both 'functions' and 'virtualized appliances' for those who need it | 15:00 |
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| enikanorov__ | and i can't understand why we limiting it to functions only | 15:01 |
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| enikanorov__ | ok... we're out of time | 15:01 |
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| blogan | enikanorov: are you talking about using VMs and containers as backends? | 15:01 |
| jorgem | thanks everyone! | 15:01 |
| enikanorov__ | blogan: no. i'm talking about logical concepts | 15:01 |
| s3wong | thanks! | 15:01 |
| enikanorov__ | #endmeeting | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 27 15:01:37 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-03-27-14.00.html | 15:01 |
| sballe | thx. bye | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-03-27-14.00.txt | 15:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-03-27-14.00.log.html | 15:01 |
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| markmcclain | rm_work: some do and some don't… we've also got an opportunity to rethink how some of these items are interacted with | 15:01 |
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| rm_work | markmcclain: alright. I guess I'd have to see an example of what you're talking about, laid out so I can get the big picture | 15:03 |
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| ttx | o/ | 16:00 |
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| ttx | anyone here for the storyboard meeting ? | 16:01 |
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| jeblair | o/ | 16:01 |
| cody-somerville | hi | 16:01 |
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| * fungi lurking | 16:02 | |
| ttx | cody-somerville: you run it ? | 16:02 |
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| cody-somerville | Sure thing | 16:02 |
| ttx | codekobe: thx! | 16:02 |
| ruhe | o/ | 16:02 |
| cody-somerville | #smartmeeting | 16:02 |
| * ttx juggles with 3 hats atm | 16:02 | |
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| jeblair | cody-somerville: "#startmeeting storyboard" | 16:03 |
| cody-somerville | err | 16:03 |
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| cody-somerville | #startmeeting storyboard | 16:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 27 16:03:13 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is cody-somerville. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storyboard' | 16:03 |
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| cody-somerville | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard | 16:03 |
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| cody-somerville | #topic MVP status | 16:03 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "MVP status (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:04 | |
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| ttx | I don't see krotscheck around | 16:04 |
| ruhe | well, what can we discuss without krotscheck and NikitaKonovalov? :) | 16:04 |
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| ruhe | i'll call Nikita on cell-phone | 16:04 |
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| cody-somerville | Well, I'll say that storyboard.openstack.org is looking pretty sharp :) | 16:04 |
| ruhe | he was going to attend | 16:04 |
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| ttx | ruhe: we can discuss next meeting time and screw them up even more :) | 16:04 |
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| ttx | cody-somerville: maybe we could start with current login breakage ? | 16:05 |
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| cody-somerville | Indeed. | 16:05 |
| cody-somerville | Logging into storyboard is currently broken, returns 500 error. | 16:05 |
| cody-somerville | The bug number for this is.. oh wait. | 16:05 |
| cody-somerville | :) | 16:05 |
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| cody-somerville | jeblair: You wouldn't happen to be able to check the logs real quick would you? | 16:06 |
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| jeblair | [Thu Mar 27 16:05:54 2014] [error] [client 2001:690:2380:7770:ca60:ff:fe0c:6111] ImportError: No module named migrate.changeset | 16:06 |
| ttx | uh. | 16:06 |
| jeblair | full traceback en route | 16:06 |
| cody-somerville | Merci. | 16:07 |
| fungi | cody-somerville: i was so hoping you'd provide a storyboard link to the bug ;) | 16:07 |
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| jeblair | http://paste.openstack.org/show/74456/ | 16:07 |
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| ttx | weird, been around for a while | 16:08 |
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| * ttx git blames Monty | 16:08 | |
| cody-somerville | So I suppose we have two issues: | 16:09 |
| jeblair | i can reproduce with: >>> import storyboard.api.app | 16:09 |
| cody-somerville | 1. login is broken; and | 16:09 |
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| cody-somerville | 2. our gate is broken. | 16:09 |
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| jeblair | 3. we have a testing hole? | 16:09 |
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| ttx | jeblair: I think that falls under 2 | 16:10 |
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| jeblair | oh, that's what you meant | 16:10 |
| krotscheck | Huhn - sorry, I've been heads down on the comments UI - when did s.o.o break? | 16:10 |
| ttx | "gate" in the existantial sense | 16:10 |
| jeblair | i usually associate 'gate broken' with jenkins giving -2 votes, not +2. :) | 16:11 |
| ttx | krotscheck: when did you last use it and it worked ? | 16:11 |
| krotscheck | Two days ago? | 16:11 |
| jeblair | so errors like this don't show up immediately | 16:11 |
| krotscheck | ish? | 16:11 |
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| ttx | ish for me too | 16:11 |
| jeblair | because apache keeps processes around for a while before discarding them | 16:11 |
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| cody-somerville | I think this commit is what introduced the bug: https://github.com/openstack-infra/storyboard/commit/856577614082b2b7856a41626587b8a6f5e0b3b8 | 16:11 |
| krotscheck | Huhn. Will file that one away | 16:11 |
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| jeblair | it can take a while for apache to get around to starting a new process that loads the wsgi app anew | 16:11 |
| krotscheck | kk, so my problem to fix. | 16:12 |
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| ttx | jeblair: can't reproduce on master tox venv | 16:12 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | o/ | 16:13 |
| cody-somerville | the issue is that sqlalchemy-migrate is now being used in storyboard | 16:13 |
| cody-somerville | sqlalchemy-migrate is only in the test requirements file | 16:13 |
| cody-somerville | not requirements.txt | 16:13 |
| jeblair | here's pip freeze from that server: http://paste.openstack.org/show/74460/ | 16:13 |
| jeblair | that would do it. | 16:13 |
| ttx | cody-somerville: hah. nice catch | 16:13 |
| jeblair | indeed it is not in that list. | 16:13 |
| ttx | cody-somerville: back to our regular agenda ? | 16:13 |
| cody-somerville | we'll also need eventlet it looks like | 16:14 |
| cody-somerville | Sure thing | 16:14 |
| cody-somerville | krotscheck: Any update on MVP status? | 16:14 |
| krotscheck | Testing locally now. | 16:14 |
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| krotscheck | Comments and task updates have patches up, the backend is basically there | 16:15 |
| krotscheck | ttx and I are arguing about comment ui. | 16:15 |
| krotscheck | That's more-or-less the status of MVP | 16:15 |
| jeblair | are either of you arguing that it shouldn't let you leave comments? :) | 16:16 |
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| krotscheck | :-P | 16:16 |
| krotscheck | No, it's more about the layout | 16:16 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | We wanted auth to be a part of MVP | 16:16 |
| NikitaKonovalov | so what about refresh token | 16:16 |
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| cody-somerville | Do we have a projected completion date for MVP? (or date rate?) | 16:16 |
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| cody-somerville | s/rate/range/ | 16:16 |
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| ttx | krotscheck: arguably I'm bitching about the whole UI, abusing this change to do so :) | 16:16 |
| jeblair | this one i take it https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82213/ | 16:17 |
| persia | Yep | 16:17 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Well, do you want something that works, right now, and iterate on the UI later? Or do you want something later, that looks the way you want it to, that also works? | 16:17 |
| ttx | krotscheck: if comment UI is the last step missing from MVP I'm fine letting it go and bitching about ordering in a separate bug | 16:17 |
| cody-somerville | ttx: it would be cool if we could get to the point where we can bitch about the ui via storyboard comments on a bug ;) | 16:17 |
| ttx | cody-somerville: no kidding :) | 16:17 |
| krotscheck | MIssing pieces are the comment UI and that task update taht follows it. | 16:18 |
| persia | So, columnar for now, and fix it after arguing in storyboard? | 16:18 |
| krotscheck | That one's minor, it just changes the status labels into a dropdown. | 16:18 |
| ttx | persia: the last change was no longer columnar | 16:18 |
| krotscheck | ttx: persia: Well, it sortof is. Tasks got moved into more of a sidebar. | 16:19 |
| ttx | krotscheck: if you think it's ready I'll +1 it and bitch about general UI separately. | 16:19 |
| cody-somerville | #topic Foreign keys, soft deletion, oh my! | 16:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Foreign keys, soft deletion, oh my! (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:19 | |
| krotscheck | ttx: It'll never be ready. That's the nature of UI | 16:19 |
| ttx | krotscheck: fwiw we should probably use wireframes to bitch about UI | 16:19 |
| krotscheck | ttx: I agree. | 16:19 |
| krotscheck | Anyway: Soft deletion | 16:19 |
| ttx | krotscheck: rather than forcing you to do wireframes in JS | 16:20 |
| cody-somerville | Is this topic to discuss if we're going to drop foreign key constraints or not? or about something different? | 16:20 |
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| ttx | cody-somerville: and about soft-deletion and how that factors in | 16:20 |
| ttx | I don't have strong opinions on that, but I know others have | 16:21 |
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| ttx | and it gets to the point where we should decide which way we want to go | 16:21 |
| ruhe | dropping FKs means a lot of manual code to remove parentless records | 16:21 |
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| jeblair | i don't think soft deletion affects the question of using fk in the db | 16:21 |
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| jeblair | ruhe: no it doesn't | 16:21 |
| jeblair | sqlalchemy needs to understand the relationships between tables in order for it to be useful at all | 16:22 |
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| jeblair | (like having a story object with a tasks attribute that is a list of tasks... | 16:22 |
| jeblair | where the story and the tasks are loaded from two different tables, but it handles that automatically) | 16:22 |
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| cody-somerville | Ok. So I agree soft deletion and dropping fk are separate issues. | 16:23 |
| jeblair | part of establishing those relationships is also indicating how deletes are handled | 16:23 |
| jeblair | so when you say story.delete() sqla should know to delete all the tasks as well. | 16:23 |
| ruhe | jeblair: that changes my vote :) | 16:23 |
| cody-somerville | what happens if raw sql is executed? | 16:23 |
| jeblair | cody-somerville: by a rogue admin? | 16:24 |
| krotscheck | Sounds to me like the harder problem would be teaching SQLA to do soft-deletes on child records. Is that already an option? | 16:24 |
| cody-somerville | jeblair: no. in the code. | 16:24 |
| krotscheck | cody-somerville: We -2 it. | 16:24 |
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| krotscheck | 'cause I'm ok just dropping soft deletes altogether | 16:24 |
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| jeblair | krotscheck: ++ on both counts | 16:25 |
| cody-somerville | Ok, so I'm strongly opposed to dropping foreign key constraints. I understand the argument. They're not compelling enough to me to discard the extra protection the constraints provide. | 16:25 |
| cody-somerville | FWIW, I argued with Monty until he admitted he didn't care strongly about it. | 16:25 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | but when fetching a child object, we may check if his parent was deleted | 16:25 |
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| cody-somerville | Does mysql support views? | 16:26 |
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| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: That's harder to do on list GET's | 16:26 |
| jeblair | cody-somerville: fwiw, i have zero interest in dealing with fk problems in the db. so i do hope someone is going to step up and deal with that. | 16:26 |
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| ttx | fwiw, jeblair has final say here. they will run the thing | 16:28 |
| cody-somerville | I should note that in sqlalchemy, the ORM is not a core component of the system. It is built on top. It also specifically supports the ability to swap out generated SQL with hand optimized statements. | 16:28 |
| krotscheck | cody-somerville: If you feel that strongly about it, are you willing to take over management of our DB migrations? | 16:28 |
| ttx | not saying he is right | 16:28 |
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| ttx | or wrong for that matter | 16:28 |
| ttx | My weak preference is for dropping FKs because the drawbacks are not worth the benefits imho | 16:29 |
| jeblair | my argument at the moment is that it should be on the table and we should explore it. i'm not entirely certain what it would look like yet, so i actually think it's premature to make the call one way or the other | 16:29 |
| jeblair | but i think we can get something on the table to look at pretty soon, and we should try to make a decision like that early | 16:29 |
| ttx | the only benefit being "data lives longer than apps and it should always be consistent" | 16:30 |
| ruhe | StoryBoard is young, we can try and see how it works | 16:30 |
| cody-somerville | The sqlalchemy feature page also states "All object-relational patterns are designed around the usage of proper referential integrity, and foreign keys are an integral part of its usage." | 16:30 |
| ttx | jeblair / cody-somerville: how easy is it to remove them / add them back in the future ? | 16:31 |
| * krotscheck is going to back out of this argument altogether, he's got enough battles looming on the UI | 16:31 | |
| ttx | i.e. is it a call we need to make now ? | 16:31 |
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| cody-somerville | It's easier to remove them later than to remove them and then re-add them later. | 16:31 |
| ttx | krotscheck: you agree it's orthogonal to the soft-deletions issue ? | 16:31 |
| persia | That's a frightening prospect: either the system integrity is guaranteed or one needs to audit it carefully | 16:31 |
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| jeblair | ttx: fairly easy to do both, but adding them back after removal can be difficult if we screw up the db in the interim | 16:32 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Yup. Soft deletion is a data implementation detail. FK's are there for integrity. | 16:32 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Different problems. Different approaches. Different solutions. | 16:32 |
| NikitaKonovalov | in case with no FK, the db_api will be responsible for handling data correctly | 16:33 |
| ttx | krotscheck: ok so we don't need to decide now. I put it on agenda because it looked like you needed a call to be made due to that issue leaking into the softdeletion issue | 16:33 |
| cody-somerville | and once the database constraints are gone, corrupting the integrity of our data is easy as forgetting to add a dependency to the requirements.txt f ile. | 16:33 |
| jeblair | cody-somerville: this is why tests are important | 16:34 |
| ttx | Do we agree on where we are going for deleting objects ? | 16:34 |
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| jeblair | no objection to removing soft-delete | 16:34 |
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| cody-somerville | wait. we're discussing *removing* soft-delete? | 16:35 |
| cody-somerville | I like soft delete. Tons of value to it. | 16:35 |
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| ruhe | cody-somerville: did you follow http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-March/029567.html ? | 16:35 |
| cody-somerville | jeblair: constraints are a type of test | 16:36 |
| cody-somerville | I don't read those, no. | 16:36 |
| cody-somerville | ;p | 16:36 |
| jeblair | cody-somerville: hah, so there's a change to "move to soft delete" which has a -1 because "openstack is moving away from it"; so confusion about the motion on the table is understandable... | 16:36 |
| jeblair | i probably should not have said "removing soft-delete" since i don't know how much soft delete we actually do right now... | 16:36 |
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| krotscheck | Backstory: I found the soft delete mixin in Oslo. I thought: Oh, we already have something like this, maybe we should use oslo instead! Then that thread started. | 16:37 |
| NikitaKonovalov | jeblair: we have soft delete for stories, tasks, comments and tokens | 16:37 |
| ttx | krotscheck: maybe we should just keep using what we use now and close the pandora box | 16:38 |
| jeblair | a more general question is what do we need from the ux pov? we don't ever really want to delete stories, right? | 16:38 |
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| cody-somerville | Yes, we may want to. | 16:38 |
| jeblair | tasks? maybe... comments? possibly admin-only (for spam/malware/etc), tokens? hard-delete seems to make sense | 16:38 |
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| krotscheck | Good question. That hasn't relaly been discussed yet, I just put it in because people were putting garbage data into the UI | 16:39 |
| NikitaKonovalov | a user may accidentally remove his comment, we may allow him to restore it | 16:39 |
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| cody-somerville | Plus metrics and stats are important (like comments over time). We'd want to continue to have that data even if we say delete a project. | 16:39 |
| krotscheck | The reason I used soft delete because I started running into issues where I'd deleted a project, but the task still showed up as active. | 16:40 |
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| krotscheck | cody-somerville: Data collection is a separate issue, and I don't think that should be handled directly from DB data. | 16:40 |
| krotscheck | we can argue about how to do that later. | 16:40 |
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| jeblair | i'm a 'urls are forever' kind of guy, so i would be in favor of having projects, stories and comments be able to be deleted only by an admin | 16:40 |
| krotscheck | Honestly, I'd rather prefer hard deletes as long as the key references are properly handled. | 16:41 |
| jeblair | we can't delete gerrit projects anyway, so it's not going to come up very often. | 16:41 |
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| persia | Deleting tasks is probably more common: sometimes one discovers one doesn't need to do something. | 16:41 |
| cody-somerville | I really want soft deletes. cause I know I'll need them. | 16:42 |
| persia | Comments are also popular for edit/delete, although there are revisionist historical arguments against that. | 16:42 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | we need to delete tokens not in a 'soft', or they will slow down the database, when there are millions of them | 16:43 |
| cody-somerville | #agreed Keep foreign keys. Discussion can be re-opened later down the road if needed. | 16:43 |
| jeblair | cody-somerville: i thought we were talking about soft delete? | 16:43 |
| cody-somerville | NikitaKonovalov: agreed. | 16:43 |
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| cody-somerville | #agreed Keep soft deletes. Discussion can be re-opened after MVP. | 16:44 |
| cody-somerville | Anything else on this topic? We need to move on with agenda. | 16:44 |
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| ttx | jeblair: I'm a "urls are meaningful' guy, and I don't really like URLs using numbers to designate projects... not sure how to fix it though | 16:44 |
| ttx | codekobe: nope, move on | 16:44 |
| ttx | cody-somerville: ^ | 16:44 |
| jeblair | ttx: yeah | 16:44 |
| cody-somerville | #topic Finishing auth: refresh tokens, clearing db from unused codes and tokens | 16:44 |
| ttx | codTAB fail | 16:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Finishing auth: refresh tokens, clearing db from unused codes and tokens (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:44 | |
| krotscheck | Huh? We didn't agree on either of those. | 16:44 |
| cody-somerville | Yes we did. | 16:45 |
| * krotscheck reads scrollback | 16:45 | |
| cody-somerville | NikitaKonovalov: What's the sitrep with auth? :) | 16:45 |
| NikitaKonovalov | we want it to be apart of mvp | 16:46 |
| krotscheck | I said I prefer hard deletes. jeblair said he wants only admins to delete things, and said hard-delete makes sense. How did we agree on keeping soft delete? | 16:46 |
| NikitaKonovalov | the missing thing is handling the refresh_token | 16:46 |
| krotscheck | Did I miss something? | 16:46 |
| cody-somerville | krotscheck: We currently have soft deletes. There was no strong consensus to remove that functionality and considerable consensus the feature can be useful. | 16:47 |
| cody-somerville | NikitaKonovalov: What needs to happen there? | 16:47 |
| NikitaKonovalov | now the user has to authorize every hour when his access_token expires | 16:47 |
| krotscheck | cody-somerville: Maintaining the status quo is not agreeing on anything. | 16:47 |
| NikitaKonovalov | so what we need is ... | 16:48 |
| NikitaKonovalov | just follow the protocol on both sides | 16:48 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | The server is almost ready, except for a /token endpoint | 16:48 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | the client needs a check for expiration to send refresh request | 16:49 |
| cody-somerville | NikitaKonovalov: I agree that authentication should be a part of the MVP, especially with it being so close to completion. | 16:49 |
| cody-somerville | Does anyone object to authentication being part of the MVP? | 16:50 |
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| krotscheck | I believe that the current state of auth is sufficient for MVP | 16:51 |
| krotscheck | Refresh tokens are nice, but not necessary | 16:51 |
| jeblair | yeah, i'm not actually following what's missing | 16:51 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | jeblair: you have to go through launchpad every hour using storyboard :) | 16:51 |
| ttx | refresh token can be out of MVP | 16:51 |
| ttx | (imho) | 16:51 |
| cody-somerville | Can we just extend the expiration of the token? | 16:52 |
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| cody-somerville | that is, the default initial one? | 16:52 |
| NikitaKonovalov | cody-somerville: we can | 16:52 |
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| jeblair | NikitaKonovalov: got it. yes, i don't think that's too important for mvp, but should definitely be the next auth-related thing we do. | 16:52 |
| cody-somerville | Cause I'm pretty sure I've been using the same cookie for launchpad itself for months ;p | 16:52 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | so let's just extend the time to 24 hours then | 16:53 |
| cody-somerville | How about a week? | 16:54 |
| krotscheck | 24 hours seems good. Just annoying enough for us to remember to put refresh tokens in. | 16:54 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: ++ | 16:54 |
| krotscheck | A week drops below the threshold of giving a fuck. | 16:54 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | I think we'll agree on a configurable value | 16:55 |
| cody-somerville | If you submit a form or something when token expires, do we hold the data and submit it after auth? | 16:55 |
| cody-somerville | #agreed Current state of auth is sufficient for MVP | 16:55 |
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| krotscheck | Nope. We don't maintain state when you're redirected to launchpad. | 16:55 |
| cody-somerville | #agreed Extend default token expiry to 24 hours. | 16:56 |
| persia | cody-somerville: Hrm? I thought we agreed that auth token expiry should be adjusted to 24 hours, rather than 1. | 16:56 |
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| cody-somerville | It's a configuration value apparently. | 16:56 |
| cody-somerville | #topic Next meeting time (rest of world DST) | 16:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Next meeting time (rest of world DST) (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:57 | |
| cody-somerville | ttx: ^^ | 16:57 |
| ttx | oh ya | 16:57 |
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| ttx | rest of world moves to summer time this weekend | 16:57 |
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| ttx | so this meeting time will start becoming inconvenient for me | 16:57 |
| ruhe | ttx: aren't we a part of the world any more? :) | 16:57 |
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| ruhe | we don't have summer/winter time | 16:58 |
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| ttx | ruhe: oh | 16:58 |
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| ttx | ruhe: so it might not be that much of a problem then | 16:58 |
| ttx | I'll just have trouble attending starting next week | 16:58 |
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| cody-somerville | Should we change the time? | 16:59 |
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| ttx | but I suspect one hour earlier makes it bad for krotscheck (that's what we had pre-DSt change) | 16:59 |
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| cody-somerville | ah | 16:59 |
| krotscheck | nope. | 16:59 |
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| krotscheck | We got bumped | 16:59 |
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| ttx | krotscheck: would one hour earlier work for you ? | 16:59 |
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| krotscheck | Going an hour earlier will make it 8am for me again, which is what it was before our own DST change. | 17:00 |
| krotscheck | So yes, that'll work | 17:00 |
| jeblair | one hour earlier or later wfm; | 17:00 |
| jeblair | one hour earlier would make it 7am after we change back though | 17:00 |
| ttx | ok so 15:00 UTC during summer season | 17:00 |
| ttx | jeblair: we'll change again then | 17:01 |
| cody-somerville | #agreed Move meeting one hour back | 17:01 |
| cody-somerville | #endmeeting | 17:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 27 17:01:15 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:01 |
| ttx | there is no good UTC time all-year-round for CA/EU meetings | 17:01 |
| jeblair | ttx: oh wow, os-meeting is even available then. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-03-27-16.03.html | 17:01 |
| cody-somerville | Thanks folks. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-03-27-16.03.txt | 17:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-03-27-16.03.log.html | 17:01 |
| mtreinish | #startmeeting qa | 17:01 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 27 17:01:28 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mtreinish. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| ttx | I'll fix it | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'qa' | 17:01 |
| mtreinish | hi who do we have here today? | 17:01 |
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| mlavalle | hi | 17:01 |
| sdague | o/ | 17:01 |
| mtreinish | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/QATeamMeeting#Proposed_Agenda_for_March_27_2014_.281700_UTC | 17:02 |
| yfried | hi | 17:02 |
| mtreinish | ^^^ Today's agenda | 17:02 |
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| andreaf | o/ | 17:02 |
| mtreinish | ok well let's get started | 17:03 |
| mtreinish | #topic QA Specs Repo Proposals (sdague) | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "QA Specs Repo Proposals (sdague) (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:03 | |
| sdague | ok, so we have the qa-specs repo | 17:03 |
| sdague | https://github.com/openstack/qa-specs | 17:03 |
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| mtreinish | #link https://github.com/openstack/qa-specs | 17:03 |
| sdague | and we even have an agreed to template now | 17:03 |
| sdague | https://github.com/openstack/qa-specs/blob/master/template.rst | 17:04 |
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| mtreinish | #link https://github.com/openstack/qa-specs/blob/master/template.rst | 17:04 |
| dkranz | o/ | 17:04 |
| sdague | so I think the point for this agenda item was to go through a spec or two and see what our feedback should be on it | 17:04 |
| sdague | mtreinish: you have a couple up, right? | 17:04 |
| sdague | do you want to volunteer one of those? | 17:05 |
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| mtreinish | sdague: yeah I pushed up the non high prio bps as specs reviews: | 17:05 |
| mtreinish | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82933/ | 17:05 |
| mtreinish | and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/83264/ | 17:05 |
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| sdague | ok, lets take 82933 | 17:06 |
| mtreinish | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82933/ | 17:06 |
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| sdague | feedback that I'd like to see there is the that it's a new tool, so it should include where that tool will go in the source tree | 17:07 |
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| sdague | and we should probably have the -h output for it mocked out, so what's optional or not can be seen up front | 17:07 |
| sdague | in the spec | 17:08 |
| sdague | then I'd consider it good | 17:08 |
| sdague | anyone else have feedback? | 17:08 |
| sdague | or feel that feedback is too specific? | 17:08 |
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| mtreinish | heh, well it's already in the tools dir :) | 17:08 |
| mtreinish | sdague: no those are good points | 17:08 |
| dkranz | The alternative is to generate the config file and supply the admin creds as an argument | 17:08 |
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| dkranz | That is basically what I did in the sample generator I submitted as WIP | 17:09 |
| dkranz | But seeing the -h output would make it clearer | 17:09 |
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| mtreinish | dkranz: I had an alternative listed in the spec for something like that | 17:09 |
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| dkranz | mtreinish: Yes, I saw that. My comment was about that part. | 17:10 |
| sdague | so the alternatives section is one I'm sort of meh about | 17:10 |
| mtreinish | yeah I'll add the -h option, although honestly it'll have only one bool option | 17:10 |
| mtreinish | sdague: it was in the template so I used it | 17:10 |
| dkranz | sdague: meh because you don't like it or because there should not be such a section? | 17:10 |
| sdague | it's important in nova because they get a lot of competing duplicative approaches | 17:10 |
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| sdague | dkranz: right, I wonder if people feel it's important for qa-specs in general | 17:11 |
| sdague | I could go either way | 17:11 |
| dkranz | sdague: I don't see anything wrong with it but perhaps not required | 17:11 |
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| mtreinish | I think it's listed as optional in the template | 17:11 |
| sdague | mtreinish: ok, that's fine | 17:11 |
| mtreinish | sdague: that was one of my first review comments when cyeoh posted the first template draft | 17:12 |
| sdague | ok, great | 17:12 |
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| sdague | ok, any other feedback on this one? | 17:12 |
| yfried | sdague: that might have already been said, | 17:13 |
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| sdague | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/83264/2/specs/add-service-tags.rst is the 2nd one | 17:13 |
| yfried | sdague: but I think once the config-verification is done, it should point to this spec somehow for futur docs | 17:13 |
| sdague | yfried: what exactly do you mean? | 17:14 |
| yfried | *future documentation | 17:14 |
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| yfried | sdague: a new guy looking at that module will find all this discussion very helpful | 17:15 |
| sdague | yfried: so the specs repo is largely to define the blueprint | 17:15 |
| sdague | then the implementation will happen there | 17:15 |
| sdague | in tree based on the approved blueprint | 17:15 |
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| sdague | I'm not sure it's going to be better than the actual implementation for documentationm | 17:16 |
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| sdague | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/83264/2/specs/add-service-tags.rst - mtreinish I couple of comments there | 17:16 |
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| sdague | first, like with the last one, it's probably worth making it explicit where the code is getting added in tempest | 17:16 |
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| sdague | which is sort of there in prose, but could probably be broken out | 17:17 |
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| vrovachev | sdague: I want remove all unused variables in tempest. What you think about it. | 17:17 |
| sdague | also, I think a code sample of what the code would look like afterwards would be useful | 17:17 |
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| mtreinish | sdague: ok, so basically we should include more examples in specs then | 17:17 |
| mtreinish | we probably should put that in the template or readme | 17:18 |
| sdague | yeh, I think examples will make it more reviable | 17:18 |
| sdague | at least for me, that's how I wrap my head around things | 17:18 |
| mtreinish | no that's a good point | 17:18 |
| sdague | vrovachev: ok, is that part of the specs discussion? or is that for open discussion? | 17:19 |
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| sdague | i.e. should it wait until the end of the meeting | 17:19 |
| sdague | anyone else have comments on - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/83264/2/specs/add-service-tags.rst ? | 17:19 |
| mtreinish | vrovachev: yeah that's off topic, if we have an open discussion section you can bring it up then | 17:19 |
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| sdague | other than that, I think this is looking pretty solid | 17:20 |
| mtreinish | sdague: ok cool | 17:20 |
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| mtreinish | so would you say we're open for real on this then? | 17:20 |
| sdague | mtreinish: you want to make another iteration on those? We can handle any remaining feedback in review | 17:21 |
| mtreinish | sdague: yeah I'll do it after the meeting | 17:21 |
| sdague | mtreinish: lets plan for end of next week to make that open beyond this group | 17:21 |
| sdague | I'd like landed content that are good examples | 17:21 |
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| vrovachev | mtreinish: Good, sorry. | 17:21 |
| mtreinish | sdague: ok yeah that'll probably be helpful | 17:22 |
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| sdague | andreaf: can you convert yours to this template - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81294/2 ? | 17:22 |
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| sdague | I think that would be another good one to review during the week | 17:22 |
| andreaf | sdague: sure I was hoping to do that before the meeting but didn't manage to | 17:23 |
| sdague | andreaf: yep, no problem | 17:23 |
| mtreinish | ok then I guess we can move on if there isn't anything else | 17:23 |
| andreaf | sdague: one question re the template, do we include copyright notice in those like the code? | 17:23 |
| mtreinish | andreaf: yeah the cc license like in the template | 17:24 |
| sdague | andreaf: if your employer really wants a called out copyright, you can | 17:24 |
| sdague | as long as it has the CC license in it | 17:24 |
| andreaf | sdague: ok thanks | 17:25 |
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| sdague | ok, I think we're making good progress here | 17:25 |
| sdague | anything else on specs? | 17:25 |
| sdague | back to you mtreinish | 17:26 |
| mtreinish | #topic Blueprints | 17:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:26 | |
| mtreinish | sdague: did you want to do a high prio bp review | 17:26 |
| mtreinish | or skip it this week because of the specs discussion | 17:26 |
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| sdague | I think we can skip | 17:27 |
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| sdague | especially as we seem to have a small audience | 17:27 |
| mtreinish | ok then did anyone have any bps they'd like to bring up | 17:27 |
| mtreinish | otherwise we'll move on | 17:27 |
| andreaf | mtreinish: ok one | 17:28 |
| mtreinish | andreaf: sure go ahead | 17:28 |
| andreaf | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/keystone-v3-jobs | 17:28 |
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| andreaf | it's related to the multi-auth bp | 17:28 |
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| andreaf | but on the infra side of things | 17:28 |
| andreaf | I have to align the spec to the template for this one too, but it would be good to get some review on it | 17:29 |
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| mtreinish | andreaf: yeah we can do the review in gerrit now :) | 17:29 |
| andreaf | at the moment is not prioritized, but it shall probably be same prio as the multi auth one | 17:30 |
| mtreinish | andreaf: yeah that'll come after the spec review (see the readme) | 17:30 |
| andreaf | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81307/ | 17:30 |
| mtreinish | but it seems pretty straightforward | 17:30 |
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| andreaf | mtreinish: thanks that's all | 17:31 |
| mtreinish | andreaf: ok thanks | 17:31 |
| mtreinish | ok are there any other bps to discuss? | 17:31 |
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| mtreinish | ok then let's move on | 17:32 |
| mtreinish | #topic Neutron testing | 17:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Neutron testing (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:32 | |
| mtreinish | mlavalle: are there any updates on neutron testing? | 17:32 |
| mlavalle | Yes | 17:32 |
| mlavalle | We have continued merging api tests | 17:32 |
| mlavalle | I am tracking 28 patchsets. As of today, we have merged 16 | 17:32 |
| mlavalle | There are 5 abandoned. I have sent email to the authors. 3 responded and will be restarting their patchsets over the next couple of days | 17:33 |
| mlavalle | The other 2 I assigned to myself | 17:33 |
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| mlavalle | I have 2 patchsets that only need one more +2 to merge: | 17:34 |
| mlavalle | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/63723/ | 17:34 |
| mlavalle | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/68597 | 17:34 |
| mtreinish | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/68597 | 17:34 |
| mtreinish | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/63723/ | 17:34 |
| mtreinish | mlavalle: ok cool | 17:35 |
| yfried | mlavalle: this might be off-topic, but - is there any chance to apply this productive approach to network-scenarios (as well as api) | 17:35 |
| mlavalle | Please take a look at them and see if we can merge them | 17:35 |
| mtreinish | hopefully we'll get this all merged before the release | 17:35 |
| mtreinish | yfried: this is just for getting api coverage on neutron | 17:35 |
| mlavalle | yfried: of course. I just don't want to spread myself to thin in this cycle, but scenario testing is my next goal | 17:35 |
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| mtreinish | scenarios are a bit more involved so I'm not sure a similar structure would be as effective | 17:36 |
| mtreinish | unless there was a predefined list of scenarios to implement | 17:36 |
| mlavalle | we can give it a try :-) | 17:36 |
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| mlavalle | and start with a predefined list | 17:36 |
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| yfried | mlavalle: I understand. I think the first step would be to draft a list of scenarios to implement | 17:36 |
| mlavalle | yes | 17:37 |
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| mlavalle | let's partner on that | 17:37 |
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| mlavalle | that's all I have | 17:37 |
| mtreinish | ok is there anything else on neutron testing from anyone else? | 17:37 |
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| sdague | do we have an idea on how close the full job is? | 17:38 |
| afazekas | what is required to make the full neutron job voting ? | 17:38 |
| mtreinish | sdague: there has been a ml thread on that | 17:38 |
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| mtreinish | salv-orlando and rossella_s have been looking at it | 17:38 |
| mtreinish | I think there are still a few bugs but it's looking like we'll greenlight the week after release | 17:39 |
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| salv-orlando | We've been looking at failure rate, and rossella_s has a script which keeps spinning a patch in the check queue | 17:39 |
| salv-orlando | So far it does not seem much worse than the smoke job | 17:39 |
| salv-orlando | so I would say after release, we switch it to voting | 17:39 |
| sdague | salv-orlando: I wonder if we could get rossella_s talking with the infra team about background queue jobs | 17:39 |
| sdague | instead of doing that in check like that | 17:40 |
| salv-orlando | she | 17:40 |
| rossella_s | sdague: I'd be glad to talk to them | 17:40 |
| sdague | because that's something we actually very much wanted to get baselines on all the test suites | 17:40 |
| salv-orlando | she's online... | 17:40 |
| sdague | rossella_s: awesome | 17:40 |
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| mtreinish | sdague: do those still get picked up by e-s? | 17:40 |
| salv-orlando | e-s? | 17:40 |
| sdague | mtreinish: the point would be to make them | 17:40 |
| sdague | elastic search | 17:40 |
| sdague | and elastic recheck | 17:40 |
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| sdague | so basically we could have control data from master | 17:40 |
| salv-orlando | sorry got my acronyms mixed up | 17:40 |
| sdague | yep, no worries | 17:41 |
| mtreinish | salv-orlando: it's ok, I'm just lazy | 17:41 |
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| afazekas | BTW: is the neutron more stable with pgsql based on statistics ? | 17:41 |
| sdague | rossella_s: ok, so how about post meeting we jump to -infra and talk about this | 17:41 |
| salv-orlando | if you were really lazy you would have avoided using the dash as well; you probably had to stretch your right middle finger for that! | 17:41 |
| sdague | heh | 17:42 |
| rossella_s | sdague: ok, awesome! | 17:42 |
| salv-orlando | afazekas: I would say mysql failure rate is actually higher than postgres | 17:42 |
| sdague | salv-orlando: there is another difference in those jobs | 17:42 |
| sdague | I believe mysql is using the metadata server | 17:42 |
| sdague | and pg is not | 17:42 |
| salv-orlando | does pg uses config drive? | 17:43 |
| afazekas | salv-orlando: so the eventlet vs mysql native driver issue is visible.. | 17:43 |
| sdague | salv-orlando: I think so | 17:43 |
| sdague | the layout.yaml definition should say | 17:43 |
| salv-orlando | right. so keep going with the meeting I'll be back in 5 with numbers from the past week | 17:43 |
| mtreinish | salv-orlando: ok cool | 17:43 |
| mtreinish | then I guess we should move onto the next topic | 17:43 |
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| mtreinish | #topic Heat testing | 17:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Heat testing (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:44 | |
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| mtreinish | sdague, stevebaker: I've seen stuff from both of you on this | 17:44 |
| mtreinish | are there any updates? | 17:44 |
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| sdague | mtreinish: I did the refactor to get the templates out of the code | 17:45 |
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| sdague | that's landed now | 17:45 |
| sdague | which I think makes things a lot easier to understand | 17:45 |
| sdague | and review | 17:45 |
| sdague | there are some additional patches inbound | 17:45 |
| sdague | I went through a stack by shardy this morning and gave some feedback | 17:45 |
| sdague | also SergeyLukjanov was talking about adding sahara scenario tests that would use the heat provisioning | 17:46 |
| sdague | which would help all around | 17:46 |
| mtreinish | ok cool, I'll take a look at them when they come back through | 17:46 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I'm here | 17:46 |
| SergeyLukjanov | reading scrollback | 17:46 |
| mtreinish | yeah that would be cool to see come through | 17:46 |
| mtreinish | we'd run it on the heat slow job I'm assuming | 17:46 |
| sdague | the sahara part will have to wait until we cut stable/icehouse | 17:46 |
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| mtreinish | yeah that's fine, it's only a couple weeks away anyway | 17:47 |
| SergeyLukjanov | sdague, yup, I hope to have some PoC heat-based tests for sahara in summit time | 17:47 |
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| sdague | which we should probably decide what else has to land before we do that, as we are going to start getting open masters on projects again soon | 17:47 |
| sdague | keystone has a juno master now IIRC | 17:47 |
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| mtreinish | sdague: I think I saw an email from ttx abount cinder too | 17:48 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | I think all projects will cut their first i-rc till the end of next week | 17:48 |
| sdague | SergeyLukjanov: that's the hope | 17:48 |
| SergeyLukjanov | sdague, I've prepared change for d-g to cut conditions | 17:48 |
| SergeyLukjanov | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/83075/ | 17:48 |
| SergeyLukjanov | and enable sahara in gate | 17:48 |
| SergeyLukjanov | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/83076/ | 17:48 |
| SergeyLukjanov | of course, the first one depends one rc1 cuts and the second one is on your wish :) | 17:49 |
| mtreinish | SergeyLukjanov: well I wasn't planning on cutting tempest until release day, which is what've done for the past few cycles | 17:50 |
| sdague | SergeyLukjanov: so I think the issue is we don't get stable/icehouse branches till much later, right? | 17:50 |
| sdague | now we're sitting on milestone proposed? | 17:50 |
| mtreinish | sdague: yeah I think that's right it's milestone proposed until release day | 17:50 |
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| sdague | we should maybe revisit that | 17:50 |
| sdague | anyway, we should move on 10 minutes | 17:51 |
| mtreinish | ok yeah | 17:51 |
| SergeyLukjanov | oh, yup, sure, so, April 18 will be ready :) | 17:51 |
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| mtreinish | #topic Bugs | 17:51 |
| SergeyLukjanov | we'll | 17:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:51 | |
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| mtreinish | so does anyone have any bugs that they would like to bring up? | 17:51 |
| * SergeyLukjanov disappearing | 17:51 | |
| mtreinish | or are there any critical bugs that need attention? | 17:52 |
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| mtreinish | ok I guess not | 17:53 |
| mtreinish | so let's move on | 17:53 |
| mtreinish | #topic Critical Reviews | 17:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Critical Reviews (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:53 | |
| mtreinish | does anyone have any reviews they'd like to get eyes on? | 17:53 |
| andreaf | I do | 17:53 |
| andreaf | as usual: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/tempest+branch:master+topic:bp/multi-keystone-api-version-tests,n,z | 17:53 |
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| mtreinish | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/tempest+branch:master+topic:bp/multi-keystone-api-version-tests,n,z | 17:53 |
| mtreinish | andreaf: yeah I'll try to give it a thorough review this week | 17:54 |
| mtreinish | it does take some time though | 17:54 |
| andreaf | It's a chain of 7 patch-sets for the multi-auth bp | 17:54 |
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| andreaf | mtreinish: thanks - I tried to reduce the size as much as possible | 17:54 |
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| mtreinish | ok are there any other reviews? | 17:54 |
| andreaf | mtreinish: in the meantime I started working on auth provided via keystone official client for the scenario tests - bit still WIP | 17:55 |
| afazekas | The ssh instance validation things has enough problem without discussing the uec or not uec default image https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81486/ , I would recommend to stay with uec anyway | 17:55 |
| mtreinish | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81486/ | 17:55 |
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| mtreinish | andreaf: I thought we used the keystoneclient for auth in scenario already | 17:56 |
| mtreinish | or at least with tenant isolation we do | 17:56 |
| mtreinish | or did you mean tokens? | 17:56 |
| andreaf | mtreinish: yes but it's a fixed version of keystone client | 17:56 |
| andreaf | I'm moving it to auth so it uses the right version | 17:56 |
| mtreinish | ahh ok | 17:57 |
| * salv-orlando has the failure rate numbers and is waiting for open discussion | 17:57 | |
| sdague | salv-orlando: go for it, we only have 3 minutes | 17:57 |
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| sdague | or we can take it to -qa after | 17:57 |
| mtreinish | #topic Open Discussion | 17:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:57 | |
| mtreinish | salv-orlando: go ahead | 17:57 |
| salv-orlando | past 7 days: mysql failure rate 2.79%, pg: 2.04% | 17:57 |
| mtreinish | we can move to -qa if it takes longer | 17:57 |
| salv-orlando | there is a tail in mysql of the effects of bug 1283522 | 17:58 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1283522 in neutron "DB lock timeout errors with parallel operations" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1283522 | 17:58 |
| salv-orlando | considering past 5 days only | 17:58 |
| salv-orlando | mysql failure rate: 2.26%, pg:3.34% | 17:58 |
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| salv-orlando | but the amount of pg jobs is rather small so I would not regard the last info as statistically significant | 17:58 |
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| salv-orlando | that's all | 17:58 |
| mtreinish | salv-orlando: is that the full parallel jobs or the smoke jobs? | 17:58 |
| mtreinish | oh I guess it's smoke if it's pg nm | 17:58 |
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| mtreinish | ok well we're out of time for today | 17:59 |
| salv-orlando | smoke. Full parallel job we have only 21 baseline runs so far. too little to say anything. But we found 3 failures in full job (1/7) | 17:59 |
| mtreinish | we can pick anything else up on -qa | 17:59 |
| mtreinish | thanks everyone | 17:59 |
| mtreinish | #endmeeting | 17:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 27 17:59:48 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2014/qa.2014-03-27-17.01.html | 17:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2014/qa.2014-03-27-17.01.txt | 17:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2014/qa.2014-03-27-17.01.log.html | 17:59 |
| mtreinish | salv-orlando: yeah that makes sense | 17:59 |
| afazekas | salv-orlando: is it option for neutron to limit the db connection to one /worker process ? and increase the number of workers on the gate ? | 18:00 |
| salv-orlando | I don't think we have this option afazekas in neutron | 18:00 |
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| Shohel02 | hi all | 18:04 |
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| Shohel02 | ossg ? | 18:04 |
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| lukehinds | Hi, Is the SEC meeting next? | 18:04 |
| CristianF | Hi! | 18:05 |
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| malini1 | bdpayne sent out a late cancel msg | 18:05 |
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| lukehinds | Ahh, np then | 18:05 |
| Shohel02 | ok | 18:05 |
| malini1 | after seeing silence I checked on email msgs | 18:05 |
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| lukehinds | See you * next week then | 18:05 |
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| malini1 | bye all | 18:05 |
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| CristianF | ok, thanks. bye. | 18:06 |
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| Shohel02 | bye all | 18:06 |
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| mriedem | half of cyeoh? | 21:00 |
| dansmith | gross\ | 21:00 |
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| cyeoh_half | mriedem: all I can spare at the moment :-) | 21:00 |
| russellb | #startmeeting nova | 21:00 |
| mriedem | well, depends on horizontal or vertical split | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 27 21:00:38 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 21:00 |
| russellb | hello! who's here? | 21:00 |
| mriedem | hi | 21:00 |
| mspreitz | I am | 21:00 |
| mrodden | lo | 21:00 |
| sandywalsh | o/ | 21:00 |
| cyeoh_half | hi | 21:00 |
| n0ano | o/ | 21:00 |
| melwitt | o/ | 21:00 |
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| dansmith | . | 21:01 |
| beagles | o/ | 21:01 |
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| rellerreller | hi | 21:01 |
| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova | 21:01 |
| russellb | #topic icehouse-rc1 | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "icehouse-rc1 (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:01 | |
| mrda | \o | 21:01 |
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| russellb | goal is to release icehouse-rc1 by end of week (tomorrow) | 21:01 |
| russellb | so let's see how we're doing | 21:01 |
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| russellb | #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/icehouse-rc1 | 21:01 |
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| russellb | 4 bugs left to go, so let's go through them one by one | 21:02 |
| russellb | https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1296913 | 21:02 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1296913 in nova "GroupAntiAffinityFilter scheduler hint no longer works" [High,Confirmed] | 21:02 |
| russellb | This one is on me | 21:02 |
| russellb | and i have a fix running unit tests locally at the moment | 21:02 |
| russellb | will post once they finish | 21:02 |
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| russellb | could use reviews once the fixes are up | 21:02 |
| russellb | https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1112912 | 21:03 |
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| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1112912 in nova "get_firewall_required should use VIF parameter from neutron" [High,In progress] | 21:03 |
| russellb | another one that came up this week | 21:03 |
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| russellb | fix is in the gate | 21:03 |
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| russellb | https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1295381 | 21:03 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1295381 in nova "VMware: resize operates on orig VM and not clone" [High,In progress] | 21:03 |
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| russellb | what's the status on this one? | 21:03 |
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| * jogo walks in late | 21:04 | |
| * russellb hasn't looked today | 21:04 | |
| * hartsocks walks in late as well | 21:04 | |
| tjones | that one has been reviewed and updated today | 21:04 |
| tjones | im checking on it just a sec | 21:04 |
| russellb | tjones: OK thanks | 21:04 |
| dansmith | kinda troubling that that one is still evolving this late | 21:04 |
| dansmith | since it's not a small fix | 21:04 |
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| dansmith | jenkins has not voted on the latest version for some reasn | 21:05 |
| tjones | minesweeper is dead today due to an upgrade from grizz to havana | 21:05 |
| russellb | check zuul? | 21:05 |
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| dansmith | tjones: so we're not going to get a minesweeper read on this one? | 21:05 |
| jogo | since this bug is in only 1 virt dirver for one operation, is it still a blocker for RC1? | 21:05 |
| tjones | dansmith: im hoping we will. arosen is working like mad on it | 21:05 |
| jogo | I would like to see it make RC1 of course | 21:05 |
| dansmith | jogo: maybe we hold this for later rcs once we get a minesweeper read? | 21:06 |
| russellb | tjones: how bad would it be if it misses rc1? | 21:06 |
| russellb | i don't want to *plan* on an rc2 ... but based on history, seems quite likely | 21:06 |
| tjones | we had a good run yesterday with minimal changes today. it would mean resize basically is broken | 21:06 |
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| tjones | it resizes the wrong vm disk | 21:06 |
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| jogo | tjones: this can always be one of the first backports to stable/havana if needed. | 21:07 |
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| tjones | jogo: stable/icehouse? | 21:07 |
| dansmith | yeah | 21:07 |
| russellb | heh, right | 21:07 |
| jogo | tjones: derp yes | 21:07 |
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| russellb | so you guys think we should block until minesweeper can run on it? | 21:07 |
| dansmith | I think we should | 21:07 |
| russellb | yeah .. | 21:07 |
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| tjones | ok i will let you know as soon as it gets running. it will be the 1st patch in | 21:08 |
| jogo | I think the risk to DB migrations from this patch is very minimal | 21:08 |
| russellb | tjones: perfect | 21:08 |
| jogo | but I am all for being cautious | 21:08 |
| dansmith | so should I untarget it? | 21:08 |
| russellb | dansmith: no leave it | 21:08 |
| russellb | let's plan on it going in | 21:08 |
| russellb | but if it's the last bug standing, then we can untarget | 21:08 |
| dansmith | okay | 21:08 |
| jogo | russellb: ++ | 21:09 |
| russellb | tjones: be sure to make noise once it gets a run | 21:09 |
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| tjones | russellb will do | 21:09 |
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| russellb | https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1240922 | 21:09 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1240922 in nova "VM don't resume after detaching volume" [Medium,In progress] | 21:09 |
| russellb | status on this one? | 21:10 |
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| russellb | that's on ndipanov, but i bet he's sleeping :) | 21:11 |
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| russellb | that one has a patch, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/83505/ | 21:12 |
| russellb | needs review | 21:12 |
| russellb | i just +2d it | 21:12 |
| russellb | seems reasonable to me | 21:12 |
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| russellb | also, the instance group fixes ... https://review.openstack.org/83588 https://review.openstack.org/83589 https://review.openstack.org/83590 | 21:13 |
| jogo | +Aed | 21:13 |
| russellb | jogo: thanks! | 21:13 |
| russellb | any more issues related to icehouse-rc1? | 21:13 |
| russellb | looks like we're on target to be able to do rc1 tomorrow, so that's great | 21:14 |
| russellb | really appreciate everyone's help keeping this bug list under control | 21:14 |
| russellb | http://old-wiki.openstack.org/rc/ | 21:14 |
| jogo | \o/ | 21:14 |
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| russellb | a pretty clean burndown line | 21:14 |
| russellb | tjones: and thanks for your work on bug wrangling! | 21:14 |
| tjones | russellb: my pleasure - i love bossing people around ;-) | 21:15 |
| russellb | hehe | 21:15 |
| russellb | #topic bugs | 21:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:15 | |
| russellb | tjones: any other bug talk for today? | 21:15 |
| tjones | nothing critical - let me check the untagged real quick | 21:15 |
| russellb | OK | 21:16 |
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| tjones | it changes quickly. i'll let you know if i see anything | 21:16 |
| russellb | OK | 21:16 |
| russellb | melwitt: anything on the novaclient bug queue today? | 21:16 |
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| mriedem | dims had a novaclient patch for an ipv6 parsing bug | 21:17 |
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| mriedem | don't know if it's critical | 21:17 |
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| melwitt | russellb: nothing looks new but I need to go through it more | 21:18 |
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| russellb | melwitt: ok all good thanks! | 21:18 |
| russellb | #topic blueprints | 21:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:18 | |
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| russellb | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-March/030576.html | 21:18 |
| russellb | the mail above discusses the updated blueprint plan for Juno | 21:18 |
| russellb | the summary is that we've added a git repo so we can use gerrit for doing review of specs | 21:18 |
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| russellb | we've been working quickly to get this ready for when Juno opens (as early as tomorrow) | 21:19 |
| russellb | the email above has links to the repo's README and the template we've been building to base specs on | 21:19 |
| russellb | any comments/questions/concerns on this updated process? | 21:19 |
| jogo | russellb: how far off are we from doc generation and gating | 21:19 |
| russellb | jogo: nothing done there yet AFAIK | 21:19 |
| russellb | it's a spinx project now at least | 21:19 |
| russellb | sphinx. | 21:20 |
| jogo | and do we have a domain we can publish too? | 21:20 |
| jogo | nova.openstack.org/? | 21:20 |
| russellb | no idea | 21:20 |
| leifz | Has there been any test runs? | 21:20 |
| russellb | git.openstack.org :-p | 21:20 |
| sdague | jogo: publishing the sphinx job really isn't critical | 21:20 |
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| russellb | leifz: test runs in what sense? | 21:20 |
| russellb | sdague: that's how i feel too | 21:20 |
| sdague | the entry point is blueprints.launchpad.net | 21:20 |
| leifz | Somebody run their blueprint through? | 21:20 |
| jogo | sdague: well we want to make sure the blueprints are easy to read | 21:20 |
| russellb | leifz: not yet | 21:20 |
| sdague | jogo: blueprints.launchpad.net | 21:20 |
| russellb | we've been blocking doing real reviews on specs while we work out the template | 21:21 |
| russellb | github will render the files i bet | 21:21 |
| leifz | Sure thing. :-) | 21:21 |
| sdague | yeh, valid rst will render | 21:21 |
| russellb | https://github.com/openstack/nova-specs/blob/master/specs/template.rst | 21:21 |
| jogo | one issue with the current template: | 21:21 |
| jogo | when someone fills it out, it will be hard to see if they skipped any sections | 21:21 |
| russellb | jogo: i was thinking about that | 21:21 |
| jogo | being they will just delete the stuff | 21:21 |
| jogo | I liked the idea of rst comments | 21:22 |
| russellb | for now i'm thinking have the template open in another tab as you go through and read it | 21:22 |
| russellb | all the rst comments might be really annoying/distracting when trying to read it in gerrit | 21:22 |
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| jogo | before we open the propsals up I think we should try this with a single propsal | 21:23 |
| jogo | so we can work out any kinks | 21:23 |
| jogo | russellb: that may work | 21:23 |
| russellb | OK | 21:23 |
| jogo | mikal: may have one | 21:23 |
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| russellb | could file a pretty simple "backportable DB migrations" blueprint | 21:23 |
| devoid | jogo, could have a test that fails if a section has less than x words and does not start with "None." | 21:23 |
| tjones | i can volunteer spawn refactor ;-) | 21:23 |
| russellb | that's something we know we want to approve | 21:23 |
| tjones | i mean for hartsocks | 21:23 |
| russellb | so we can get it through quickly | 21:23 |
| hartsocks | I was planning on writing the spawn refactor proposal. | 21:23 |
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| hartsocks | I was planning on posting something on that as soon as you folks were ready I meant to say. | 21:24 |
| jogo | I was thinking https://review.openstack.org/#/c/80865/ | 21:24 |
| mspreitz | I have another question: when we switch to the new system, when does a BP go into launchpad? | 21:24 |
| jogo | mikal already claimed 'first' | 21:24 |
| russellb | mspreitz: it's basically the same process in launchpad as before | 21:24 |
| mikal | Heh | 21:24 |
| * jogo waves at mikal | 21:24 | |
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| russellb | the addition is that the "link to spec" on the blueprint has to point to a review in gerrit | 21:25 |
| russellb | instead of a wiki page, google doc, or nothing | 21:25 |
| mspreitz | So a BP goes into both places at the start? | 21:25 |
| russellb | yeah | 21:25 |
| russellb | that make sense? | 21:25 |
| russellb | it's basically standardizing on where specs go | 21:25 |
| mspreitz | got it | 21:25 |
| mikal | I need to tweak mine to match the new template but I could do that today to one of them if we wanted a test case | 21:25 |
| russellb | and reviewing them through gerrit | 21:25 |
| mspreitz | that could be stated explicitly in the intro to the new system | 21:25 |
| russellb | if we block everything on one BP, i want to pick the simplest one possible to expedite it | 21:25 |
| tjones | makes sense | 21:25 |
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| mspreitz | I have to go now. Bye | 21:26 |
| devoid | why block everything? especially reviews? | 21:26 |
| russellb | devoid: jogo was interested in a trial run | 21:26 |
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| russellb | i think the juno equivalent of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/backportable-db-migrations-icehouse would be quick and easy though | 21:26 |
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| russellb | that has to be the first db migration merge anyway | 21:27 |
| jogo | russellb: that works | 21:27 |
| russellb | k | 21:27 |
| russellb | i can write that up tomorrow | 21:27 |
| russellb | once rc1 is sorted | 21:27 |
| russellb | anything else on the blueprint plans? | 21:27 |
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| hartsocks | I'll just need help walking through the new procedure when it comes time to propose the spawn-refactor stuff. | 21:28 |
| russellb | hartsocks: yep, np | 21:28 |
| russellb | #topic open discussion | 21:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:28 | |
| hartsocks | I'm sure a number of other folks will be in the same place. | 21:29 |
| russellb | https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ci/+bug/1282629 | 21:29 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1282629 in openstack-ci "Log #openstack-nova in Eavesdrop" [Medium,Incomplete] | 21:29 |
| russellb | if you have an opinion on whether #openstack-nova should be logged or not, please comment on that bug | 21:29 |
| russellb | most channels are logged. i don't really like it, but happy to do whatever most people want | 21:29 |
| russellb | just vote on the bug | 21:29 |
| devoid | russellb, yea, and I've switched my opinion on it. but there were +1's there and I don't want to close it for them. | 21:30 |
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| russellb | a vote of -1 is fine too if that's how you feel | 21:30 |
| russellb | whichever | 21:30 |
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| * dansmith just voted | 21:31 | |
| yjiang5_1 | russellb: do you know any method to search the log easily? I think a lot of discussion happens on IRC, so it will be helpful if some tools to dig out information from the log. | 21:31 |
| russellb | google if it's logged | 21:31 |
| * hartsocks voting -1 on logging | 21:32 | |
| yjiang5_1 | russellb: thanks. | 21:32 |
| * geekinutah votes -1 | 21:32 | |
| tjones | im fine with not logging - i have a proxy | 21:32 |
| cyeoh_half | yiang5_1: I suspect a lot of people just use irc loggers like znc and then just use grep | 21:32 |
| russellb | any other topics for today? | 21:32 |
| dansmith | how many -1 votes does it take? :) | 21:33 |
| yjiang5_1 | cyeoh_half: thanks for information. I will check what's znc :) | 21:33 |
| russellb | getting close to opening juno! | 21:33 |
| beagles | as it was likely my question in irc yesterday that brings that topic up .. | 21:33 |
| tjones | yjiang5_1: it's pretty simple but i can help if you need it | 21:33 |
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| yjiang5_1 | tjones: really thanks and will turn to you if need any help. | 21:33 |
| beagles | I also log... but if it isn't not a logged channel I prefer to make sure I only refer to old info for personal use | 21:34 |
| hartsocks | It's radically different to keep channel logs for your own use than it is to expose the channel logs to a web crawler. | 21:34 |
| beagles | yes | 21:34 |
| russellb | yep. | 21:35 |
| cyeoh_half | hartsocks: yea I think this only comes up because lots of people new to IRC, can't stay connected all the time and dont know about irc proxies | 21:36 |
| cyeoh_half | so we could just point people to them when they ask about logging | 21:36 |
| mikal | Or write up a "how to irc" wiki page | 21:36 |
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| hartsocks | I've deliberately avoided building a proxy for myself. I can't possibly keep track of everything. I might change my mind late, however. | 21:36 |
| russellb | znc rocks | 21:37 |
| cyeoh_half | hartsocks: depends on what timezone you're in. For some people it's really necessary | 21:37 |
| cyeoh_half | +1 for znc! | 21:37 |
| hartsocks | cool. | 21:37 |
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| russellb | anything else? otherwise we can close up early | 21:38 |
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| dansmith | +1 for early! | 21:39 |
| russellb | k :) | 21:39 |
| russellb | thanks everyone! | 21:39 |
| russellb | #endmeeting | 21:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:39 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 27 21:39:53 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:39 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-03-27-21.00.html | 21:39 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-03-27-21.00.txt | 21:39 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-03-27-21.00.log.html | 21:40 |
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