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| r_m_r | hi all :-) | 14:49 |
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| * BobBall taps johnthetubaguy on the shoulder | 14:59 | |
| johnthetubaguy | its not time yet, on my clock | 15:00 |
| johnthetubaguy | there we go | 15:00 |
| BobBall | oh | 15:00 |
| johnthetubaguy | #startmeeting XenAPI | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 18 15:00:11 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:00 | |
| BobBall | it's 15:04 according to rackspace's public cloud ;) | 15:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi' | 15:00 |
| BobBall | ohhhh | 15:00 |
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| BobBall | okies | 15:00 |
| BobBall | hi :) | 15:00 |
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| johnthetubaguy | well according to your VM I guess, time for NTP | 15:00 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic date of next meeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "date of next meeting (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:00 | |
| johnthetubaguy | OK so its a bit backwards | 15:01 |
| BobBall | yeah | 15:01 |
| BobBall | true | 15:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | but its Christmas soon, so when is the next date people are around? | 15:01 |
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| johnthetubaguy | 8th Jan? | 15:01 |
| BobBall | I'm off for like ages | 15:01 |
| BobBall | yes | 15:01 |
| BobBall | should be back then | 15:01 |
| BobBall | with any luck | 15:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:01 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #info next meeting is Wednesday 8th January 2014 | 15:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #topic blueprints | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:02 | |
| BobBall | We've got a number of apologies | 15:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | any blueprint updates this week? | 15:02 |
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| BobBall | Mate can't be here because he's off ill | 15:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, OK, apologies are good | 15:02 |
| BobBall | Guillaume can't be here because he's on holiday | 15:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | both reasonable excuses, and expected this time of year I guess | 15:03 |
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| BobBall | Euan can't be here either (although he's not been focusing on OpenStack stuff lately either) | 15:03 |
| BobBall | so it's just you and me John. | 15:03 |
| BobBall | I'll say what I can - but I suspect we'll have a short meeting :) | 15:03 |
| BobBall | Guillaume has updated the ehterpad at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/pci-passthrough-xenapi | 15:04 |
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| johnthetubaguy | hmm, thinking we should have just met up for mulled wine somewhere, but anyways | 15:04 |
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| BobBall | I can't have mulled wine and champagne on the same day... | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | lol, OK, its not even mixing your drinks | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | Oh, I see, more info on the plugin | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | seems like progress | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | did you hear about any blockers? | 15:05 |
| BobBall | blockers for what? | 15:06 |
| BobBall | XenAPI being broken? or PCI or what? | 15:06 |
| BobBall | no | 15:06 |
| BobBall | in any case lol | 15:06 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I was just meaning anything they found that is blocking them macking progress | 15:06 |
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| BobBall | no | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, sounds all good | 15:06 |
| BobBall | he's got a patch nearly ready to upload | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | I have a few blueprints up for review, but nothing major | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | looking forward to reviewing it | 15:07 |
| BobBall | he asked me today (despite being on holiday) about how to get it up | 15:07 |
| BobBall | so I said to upload to gerrit and mark WIP if he wants early feedback | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | thanks | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | I have VIF hotplug, vcpu_pin_set and resize ephemeral disks up for review | 15:08 |
| BobBall | brill | 15:08 |
| BobBall | I've got a bunch of stuff up for review | 15:08 |
| BobBall | but none has a BP | 15:08 |
| BobBall | tempest improvements | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | right now I am concentrating on making live-migrate suck less, its mostly about cells, reporting errors, and edge cases, when it works it seems solid now | 15:08 |
| BobBall | minor bug fixes | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, they look like quite important fixes mostly, nice work there | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK… so lets talk bugs I guess | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Bugs and QA | 15:09 |
| BobBall | Should I make a random BP for them? | 15:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs and QA (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:09 | |
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| BobBall | I know you're looking, but I'm not sure how else to encourage reviewer love ;) | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: nah, probably not worth it, but its up to you really | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | well it would only get low anyways | 15:10 |
| BobBall | well I'll give it till after christmas | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | maybe target the bugs for Icehouse-2 | 15:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so I spotted a nasty live-migrate issue, where the VM can get deleted | 15:10 |
| BobBall | deleted? | 15:10 |
| BobBall | ouchy | 15:11 |
| BobBall | how | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/62855/ | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | it could be a theoretical error, but I had a coding error make a VM get destroyed, so I felt the need to fix it | 15:11 |
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| johnthetubaguy | its because libvirt, I think creates the domain, so needs to destroy it, but XenServer looks after all that "for free" | 15:11 |
| BobBall | ah ok | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | I need a follow up patch to do a proper rollback, but I am good with a bit broken over utter disaster | 15:12 |
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| BobBall | yeah | 15:13 |
| BobBall | true | 15:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | so any updates on the Zuul + tempest + XenServer stuff? I have lost touch with mate the last few days | 15:13 |
| BobBall | he's been off | 15:14 |
| BobBall | Latest status is the patches you know about | 15:14 |
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| BobBall | I was hoping that he'd make some more progress this week | 15:14 |
| BobBall | but he won't be back till tomorrow | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, OK, that would explain that, hope he gets better soon (and not just because I want that tempest testing running!) | 15:14 |
| BobBall | so not much will happen I'm afraid | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, thats the way it goes, but we have some progress at least | 15:15 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I have a config drive fix to get ip addresses, but it didn't get out in the pre-christmas deploy that is happening at the moment | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | so will be post christmas now | 15:15 |
| BobBall | that's fine | 15:15 |
| BobBall | I'm not fussed about that | 15:15 |
| BobBall | that's niceities | 15:15 |
| BobBall | but not needed for the initial proveitworks | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, its not a requirement, but could make things alot easer | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I thought that, but the work arounds are getting more complex by the second | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, we are getting closer, slowly | 15:16 |
| BobBall | hehe | 15:16 |
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| BobBall | I think we're there though | 15:16 |
| BobBall | I don't think we need any more for the config drive issue | 15:16 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I promised to look at configuring the localrc, but I am guessing mate has the environment for that already, so I am not sure me wading in is worth it at this point | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | buy lets check back in early Jan, and see where we are all at | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | I assume Mate is off for most of the christmas period? | 15:17 |
| BobBall | Not most of it, no | 15:17 |
| BobBall | he's working most | 15:17 |
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| BobBall | sorry, I have to brb john | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | we might be done... | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Open Discussion | 15:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:19 | |
| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: ping me if you have anything to raise | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think that is all from me | 15:19 |
| BobBall | sorry about that - I'm back now | 15:21 |
| BobBall | johnthetubaguy: ping | 15:21 |
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| johnthetubaguy | hey | 15:21 |
| BobBall | just wanted to talk about backporting aggregate fixes | 15:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah OK | 15:21 |
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| johnthetubaguy | for the pool support? | 15:22 |
| BobBall | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/61712/ | 15:22 |
| BobBall | indeed | 15:22 |
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| BobBall | The main issue is whether we can push for a simple backport | 15:22 |
| BobBall | -backport | 15:22 |
| BobBall | or if we have to backport the object support | 15:22 |
| BobBall | the "simple fix" is to rename "metadetails" to "metadata" and cope with the hybrid model that we've got | 15:22 |
| BobBall | but that's not the fix that went into trunk | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, I would go for the simple backport | 15:23 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, thats fine | 15:23 |
| BobBall | good | 15:23 |
| BobBall | that's what I thought | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | as long as a unit test catches it, I think thats cool | 15:23 |
| BobBall | but wanted to make sure you were on board | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | no problem | 15:23 |
| BobBall | the problem is the unit tests were wrong | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | it blocks out people using pools on havanna | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | and that seems like something worth fixing | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | if we don't plan on removing that support! | 15:24 |
| BobBall | they were verifying the wrong behaviour in Havana - because the object support changed the interface without updating the users of the interface ;) | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I remember | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | as long as there are fixed unit tests that fail before your fix, then pass after your fix, we are good, I feel | 15:24 |
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| BobBall | indeed john - there are | 15:24 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I figured they had to be, lol, but just giving you words to convince other people :) | 15:25 |
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| BobBall | The other part of it is I want - somehow - to test that the input to add_to_aggregate is what is expected at run time | 15:25 |
| BobBall | not sure how to test that though | 15:25 |
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| BobBall | tempest doesn't do any mocking which would be needed to have two computes in a real environment | 15:26 |
| BobBall | and it's an incredible high level test for a unit test | 15:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm, thats a good call, a unit test at the higher level should do that I guess? maybe compute rpc_api level? | 15:26 |
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| BobBall | do we have such tests that don't just mock everything? | 15:27 |
| BobBall | my issue is that unit tests should be testing at a very low level | 15:27 |
| BobBall | but this is a high level test with partial mocking that I'd need | 15:27 |
| BobBall | and it's a bloomin pain | 15:27 |
| BobBall | :) | 15:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | well, you just need the call to RPC layer right, that shoudl be there already in a unit test | 15:27 |
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| BobBall | yeah | 15:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | in theory at least | 15:27 |
| BobBall | ok | 15:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | I have a feeling I touched or created one of those at some point... | 15:28 |
| BobBall | so you'd suggest a nova unit test doing whatever-the-hell-I-need-to-do | 15:28 |
| BobBall | including DB access etc | 15:28 |
| BobBall | cuz ideally I don't want to mock that | 15:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | oh, I don't think you need any of that | 15:28 |
| BobBall | Well the test will need a DB somewhere to store the aggregate I create | 15:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | just create the object, fake out a load of stuff, and see what the compute rpc api gets | 15:28 |
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| BobBall | hmmm - I see | 15:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | it will get an object_to_primitive conversion, and you should see the raw dict | 15:29 |
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| BobBall | I guess I can test that | 15:29 |
| BobBall | hmmm | 15:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | its worth a try, if it feels fake, go bigger I guess | 15:29 |
| BobBall | that won't test everything I want tested though | 15:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, it doesn't do end to end through RPC, but thats life at the moment | 15:30 |
| BobBall | the thing that I want testing in a unit or tempest test is that the actual code in the driver to add an aggregate works with the input that it's passed... because that was where the object disconnect was | 15:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm, but tempest mocks nothing, just looks at public API endpoints | 15:30 |
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| BobBall | i.e. the input and output APIs were tested and "verified" by unit tests - but the input and output did not match | 15:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, agreed, but thats why we need the XenAPI tempest ASAP (obviously) | 15:31 |
| BobBall | That's still not going to test aggregates | 15:31 |
| BobBall | and I don't see how it can without mocking | 15:31 |
| BobBall | which tempest doesn't have ATM :) | 15:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, we need multi host tests ASAP, which would test this | 15:32 |
| BobBall | although I was musing on having a separable nova | 15:32 |
| BobBall | prefix all hypervisor resources with a runtime defined string | 15:32 |
| BobBall | then you can have multiple nova's for a single XenServer in theory | 15:32 |
| BobBall | :) | 15:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | we have the fake virt driver | 15:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | you could expand that just to do the xenapi pool stuff | 15:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | then test that | 15:32 |
| BobBall | maybe | 15:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | but its not worth it | 15:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | I feel | 15:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | just setup one system and log out the content | 15:33 |
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| johnthetubaguy | or better, just setup a system and test it once manually | 15:33 |
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| johnthetubaguy | you hit the errors really early on at least | 15:33 |
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| BobBall | manual testing isn't better | 15:34 |
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| johnthetubaguy | long term, sure, short term, its the best trade off I think | 15:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | we need to get the multi xenserver tempest test, and sets up a pool at some point | 15:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | but lets not run before we can walk right | 15:35 |
| BobBall | That's a massive step - multi host stuff just isn't designed to work in zuul | 15:36 |
| BobBall | __everything__ is single host only | 15:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | agreed, we really need that soon | 15:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | its killing us on a whole host of features | 15:36 |
| BobBall | I think our only option in any <6 month (probably longer!) timescale is faking a host | 15:36 |
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| BobBall | or two novas on one VM | 15:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | right, and we have the fake virt driver thats used of scheduler testing, you could expand that | 15:37 |
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| BobBall | yup | 15:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | but its messy, and not very real | 15:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | I guess our fake xenapi for the unit tests, wired up with the xenapi driver might get you some distance? | 15:37 |
| BobBall | indeed | 15:37 |
| BobBall | I started playing with that | 15:38 |
| BobBall | but it gets ugly quickly | 15:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | I know it doesn't do networking, for starters | 15:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think its real or total fake as the two options | 15:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | might be better making a local compute rpcapi | 15:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | so we can test across the boundry | 15:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | similar to some conductor stuff we do already I guess | 15:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | would that work? | 15:39 |
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| BobBall | maybe, yeah | 15:39 |
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| johnthetubaguy | maybe try a fake rpc driver, that just makes real calls? | 15:40 |
| BobBall | I think part of my issue is struggling to decide on the concept of the test because there are so many ways it _could_ be done and all of them are horrid | 15:40 |
| BobBall | I'll have another think | 15:40 |
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| BobBall | let's not worry too much this week | 15:40 |
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| BobBall | hopefully we can talk about it next meeting | 15:40 |
| BobBall | although I'm on holiday for most of the xmas period | 15:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK | 15:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | likewise really | 15:40 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I think testing across the compute boundary is worth a look, by someone wiring the two bits together | 15:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways | 15:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | lets call it a day | 15:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | any other bits? | 15:42 |
| BobBall | nop | 15:42 |
| BobBall | nope* | 15:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool, have a good Christmas! | 15:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | #endmeeting | 15:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:42 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 18 15:42:28 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:42 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-12-18-15.00.html | 15:42 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-12-18-15.00.txt | 15:42 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-12-18-15.00.log.html | 15:42 |
| BobBall | you too | 15:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | :) | 15:42 |
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| jgriffith | hola everyone | 16:00 |
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| kmartin | hello | 16:00 |
| rushiagr | o/ | 16:00 |
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| jgriffith | #startmeeting cinder | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 18 16:00:57 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:01 |
| thingee | o/ | 16:01 |
| eharney | hi | 16:01 |
| bswartz | hello | 16:01 |
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| zhaoqin | hello | 16:01 |
| dosaboy | aloha | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: avishay eharney thingee bswartz zhaoqin gooooooooodddddd moooooornnnnning | 16:01 |
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| jgriffith | dosaboy: you in Hawaii.. or just dreaming? | 16:01 |
| xyang1 | hi | 16:01 |
| avishay | hello! | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:01 |
| zhaoqin | happy new year | 16:01 |
| DuncanT | Hey | 16:01 |
| aguzikova | howdy | 16:01 |
| caitlin56 | morning | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | aguzikova: hey there | 16:01 |
| avishay | evening | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | hi caitlin56 | 16:02 |
| dosaboy | jgriffith: hallucinating | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | alright.. let's get this rollin | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: I want what you had | 16:02 |
| rushiagr | dosaboy: lol | 16:02 |
| avishay | haha | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | avishay: you wanna kick it off with your bp discussion? | 16:02 |
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| jgriffith | #topic cinder backup recovery api | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "cinder backup recovery api (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:02 | |
| avishay | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/cinder-backup-recover-api | 16:02 |
| jungleboyj | Hello all. | 16:02 |
| avishay | So this isn't mine, but I'm representing because Ronen couldn't make it | 16:03 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: fair enough | 16:03 |
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| avishay | The idea is to create an import_backup function so that if the DB goes away for some reason, you can import the backup's metadata into the DB | 16:03 |
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| DuncanT | Question 1.... Why is the host needed? Why not just let the scheduler pick one? | 16:04 |
| jungleboyj | avishay: Wasn't this discussed a month or so ago? | 16:04 |
| avishay | export_backup will print out a string that can be used later on for import_backup when things go bad | 16:04 |
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| avishay | jungleboyj: possibly | 16:04 |
| jungleboyj | avishay: There was discussion of backing up metadata. | 16:04 |
| DuncanT | We discussed the idea I think, not the implementation... | 16:04 |
| dosaboy | jungleboyj: briefly but I have not had a chance to do anything about it | 16:05 |
| jungleboyj | DuncanT: Ok. That makes sense. | 16:05 |
| avishay | DuncanT: what if only one host has access to the backup? honestly i'm a bit rusty on the details of the backup service | 16:05 |
| caitlin56 | avishay: why isn't the approach to just make the backups more self-sufficient, less dependent on db entries? | 16:05 |
| dosaboy | so ronen has decided to take it on | 16:05 |
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| winston-d | o/ hi~ | 16:05 |
| avishay | caitlin56: that is the approach, but once you have some self-sufficient backup, you need to import it | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | avishay: that's sort of a problem, but I think Ronen accounted for that | 16:05 |
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| jungleboyj | dosaboy: Cool. | 16:05 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: IIUC the idea is you have an object store / dump and you can just restore *everythin* from it | 16:06 |
| DuncanT | avishay: I'm not aware of how that could happen... but I might be missing something | 16:06 |
| dosaboy | backups are ot tied to hosts but the volume that is backed up may be | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: correct | 16:06 |
| avishay | DuncanT: could i back up to two different swift installations? | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: but the db has the record of the backup | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: ie the mapping to find it etc | 16:06 |
| caitlin56 | Will you be able to restore "everything" or *just* the volume? | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | so here's my opinion | 16:06 |
| DuncanT | avishay: Taht would be deviant, but ok | 16:06 |
| avishay | caitlin56: everything | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | I think having mechanisms to do things like backup the cinder nodes is a good idea | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | BUT | 16:07 |
| avishay | DuncanT: yep | 16:07 |
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| jgriffith | I don't think throwin git into the existing backup model necessarily works | 16:07 |
| caitlin56 | avishay is their an option to restore just the volume content? | 16:07 |
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| DuncanT | avishay: Optional parameter maybe? Currently backup services are pretty much active/active HA | 16:07 |
| avishay | DuncanT: i guess we can do that | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: avishay ? | 16:08 |
| avishay | caitlin56: without anything in the DB? | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | sorry.. not sure what you're getting at | 16:08 |
| DuncanT | avishay: If you don't specify it you should also get load ballancing for free... | 16:08 |
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| avishay | jgriffith: sorry i'm trying to answer 3 people at once :) | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | avishay: :) | 16:08 |
| caitlin56 | avishay: allowing changes to DB, say if I'm restoring on a site with different users. | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | Ok... let's stop here for a second | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | we're getting wayyyy down in the dirt here | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | and there are still a number of things that I think need answered in general | 16:09 |
| avishay | jgriffith: shoot | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | So let's make sure we're on the same page | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | The concept of the BP is to be able to perform a backup of a cinder node | 16:09 |
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| jgriffith | control node more specifically | 16:10 |
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| jgriffith | but also volume-service node | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | correct? | 16:10 |
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| DuncanT | That isn't what I understood by the proposal, no | 16:10 |
| avishay | don't follow | 16:10 |
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| jgriffith | The only thing this BP really talks about is backing up the db | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | quite honestly IMO *who cares* | 16:10 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: I don't read the blueprint as that at all | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | it hardly seems worth making an API for | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: ok, please explain | 16:11 |
| dosaboy | the bp is about being able to take a backup from one cloud and restore to another | 16:11 |
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| avishay | jgriffith: if i backed up a volume to swift, and then my DB is lost, i want to import the backup back from swift so that i could restore the volume if i want | 16:11 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: I read it as 'I've got some backups, but I've lost my DB.... create the DB entries for these backups please' | 16:11 |
| dosaboy | i.e. cloud A dies so we build cloud B and want to restore our volumes from A | 16:11 |
| avishay | yea, what they said :) | 16:11 |
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| DuncanT | Where 'backup' very specifically means 'backups created by the cinder backup service' | 16:12 |
| dosaboy | correct | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: DuncanT avishay ok, thanks :) | 16:12 |
| thingee | I read it as backup/restore metadata | 16:12 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: +2 | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | thingee: ha! | 16:12 |
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| thingee | seriously, that's the last sentence | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | thingee: yeah | 16:12 |
| jungleboyj | thingee: I did too, but I think I am following better now. | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | I know... I'm laughing because anybody that just says "metadata" is asking for trouble | 16:13 |
| caitlin56 | So you backup the metadata and data separately? | 16:13 |
| DuncanT | caitlin56: No no no | 16:13 |
| thingee | caitlin56: right, I don't understand why it has to be separate. I read this as it should be included with the backups. | 16:13 |
| DuncanT | Metadata is overloaded here | 16:13 |
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| winston-d | thingee: +1 | 16:13 |
| DuncanT | Volume metadata *will be* (once we merge the code) included in the volume | 16:13 |
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| dosaboy | thingee: could probably do with rewording/refining a bit, it's been sat there unloved for a while | 16:14 |
| DuncanT | Backups have their own metadata | 16:14 |
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| DuncanT | i.e. what goes in the backup table... the URL for swift, for example | 16:14 |
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| jgriffith | Ok... well I'm thumbs down | 16:14 |
| caitlin56 | So you backup the volume, and the object you create includes the db entries (i.e. the "metadata"), correct? | 16:14 |
| DuncanT | This is an import/export API for the backup metadata, *not* the volume metadata | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | The goal is vague IMO | 16:14 |
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| thingee | DuncanT: I'm talking about metadata that goes with a volume. | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | and I don't know what problem you're trying to solve other than the recommended "restore volumes" to a lost db | 16:15 |
| thingee | if I restore a backup, I get a volume with the metadata it previous had | 16:15 |
| DuncanT | thingee: We've a separate plan to include that directly in the backup... see dosaboy's BP & patches | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | which I'd rather see something like a manage API to import/reset info | 16:15 |
| thingee | DuncanT: heh, that's why I was confused by this bp. | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | thingee: but that's "volume-metadata" not "db-metadata" | 16:15 |
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| thingee | got it | 16:15 |
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| avishay | can i try again? | 16:16 |
| dosaboy | so the pre-requisite for this bp is the volume metadata backup stuff i'm working on now | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | avishay: sure :) | 16:16 |
| dosaboy | avishay: shoot | 16:16 |
| DuncanT | This (the way I read it) is just a way to add backups done externally (be it a different cloud or an old incarnation of a cloud) to the list of backups you can restore from | 16:16 |
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| avishay | so imagine you're backing up volume to geo-replicated Swift, and all your backups are nice and safe. then your site goes down. | 16:16 |
| avishay | you have all those nice backups safe in swift, but your backups DB is empty | 16:17 |
| avishay | so this command will go to the swift backup driver, and have it query those backups, and fill in the DB so that you can restore your precious volumes | 16:17 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: so it's an import feature kinda | 16:17 |
| dosaboy | agreed | 16:17 |
| DuncanT | avishay: +1, that's how I read it too | 16:17 |
| jungleboyj | avishay: That makes sense. | 16:18 |
| avishay | jgriffith: yes, import_backup | 16:18 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: but why not use a general import volume | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | regardless of backup or not | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | that way it can be used for "other" things | 16:18 |
| DuncanT | Because the backup format is defined | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: so? | 16:18 |
| DuncanT | The disk format, the metadata, etc | 16:18 |
| dosaboy | i.e. import a backup (db) into cinder so that it can then be used to restore volumes | 16:18 |
| caitlin56 | So "populate my list of backup images from what is stored on this external backup target"? | 16:19 |
| DuncanT | caitlin56: Pretty much, yes | 16:19 |
| avishay | jgriffith: here the backup driver needs to go to the actual backup and look stuff up. in import_volume the volume driver needs to query the storage. | 16:19 |
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| jgriffith | right, but what I'm saying is why not take it another step | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | I have one of two cases: | 16:19 |
| caitlin56 | What is the name of the object that has this info for the external backup target? Is it a constant or do you have to remember it somewhere else? | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | 1. the case you're describing, backups and lost db | 16:19 |
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| jgriffith | 2. volumes on the backend but no db | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | It would be cool to import either one | 16:20 |
| DuncanT | caitlin56: Currently you have to remember it | 16:20 |
| thingee | jgriffith: +1 | 16:20 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: +1. | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | IMHO the whole db in the volume backup is kinda silly anyway | 16:20 |
| avishay | jgriffith: i don't know offhand how to combine import volume and import backup | 16:20 |
| jungleboyj | I have my volumes but no Cinder. Have Cinder rebuild itself. | 16:20 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: To my mind those are totally different cases | 16:20 |
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| jgriffith | The mode of loosing your backend volume AND your controller nodes DB is a bit of a corner case IMO | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: well yes | 16:21 |
| thingee | avishay: I think where jgriffith is getting it at, is something to consider on this command. Can we make abstract enough to support both ideas in the future. | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: but why not use the same mechanism to achieve both of them (or at least the same API call) | 16:21 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: The import volume, for the swift case, can conceivably also be used to import volumes backup up on another provider... | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | Why explode API calls? | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | thingee: +1 | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: I don't think I'm getting my point across correctly here | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | thingee: seems to get it maybe | 16:22 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: I'd avoid using the same API because the semantics are very different... a backup (should) know if it is bootable, glace details etc.... an 'external' volume is just a pile of bits | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: regardless by itself I don't see this as being overly useful anyway | 16:22 |
| avishay | i guess we could have a flag to say if it's a volume or backup that you want to import, but i think the code path inside will be totally different | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: no, it's exactly the same | 16:22 |
| rushiagr | thingee: +1 | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: So... say it's something like this: | 16:22 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: I get it. | 16:22 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT: "cinder import-volume --source <backup|path> | 16:23 |
| thingee | jgriffith, DuncanT: can we discuss offline about the differences. maybe we can think of ways of having an "import" feature that can import backend volumes or backups..but the implementations are hidden from the import command. | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: if it's a backup the API does the right thing and repops the volume based on the backup | 16:23 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: fair enough | 16:23 |
| thingee | import is going to import "an object"...we don't care what. and that object might have metadata...and it might not | 16:24 |
| avishay | ok, we can take it offline | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | thingee: +111111 | 16:24 |
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| DuncanT | jgriffith: The semantics are, I think, so different that there's no gain to multiplexing the call | 16:24 |
| avishay | i agree with DuncanT | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: avishay you're both wrong :) | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: avishay just kidding | 16:24 |
| avishay | haha | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | ok, we can talk later | 16:24 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: e.g. import backup does *not* creat a volume.... it creates a backup entry | 16:24 |
| thingee | DuncanT, avishay: I just want to humor the idea...and see the differences. | 16:24 |
| caitlin56 | When you point at your Swift object storage, are you restoring "db info about backup x" or "db info about a lot of backups stored here"? | 16:25 |
| avishay | thingee: no problem, we can try | 16:25 |
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| jgriffith | Ok | 16:25 |
| rushiagr | I am on thingee's side. Makes more sense | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | Let's change topics | 16:25 |
| avishay | caitlin56: backup x | 16:25 |
| DuncanT | I might have 2000 backups... when I import them, I don't wany 2000 new volumes.... | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | I don't see us making progress on that one | 16:25 |
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| rushiagr | I am ready to move forward :) | 16:25 |
| thingee | DuncanT: I agree. That wasn't my intentions. | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: what? | 16:25 |
| avishay | let's leave it for now, we'll think how we can make them into one API call, and post some code | 16:25 |
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| jgriffith | #topic taskflow | 16:26 |
| caitlin56 | avishay: so you are dependent on Swift to provide your catalog of all available backups, presumably by having a policy on how you named them in the first place. | 16:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "taskflow (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:26 | |
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| jgriffith | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/copy-volume-to-image-task-flow | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | Wondering if anybody else has looked at this? | 16:26 |
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| avishay | caitlin56: we'll have to figure that out, yes :) | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | And if anybody knows Abhishek? | 16:26 |
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| caitlin56 | avishay: using the directory capabilities of the object store strikes me as a good idea. | 16:27 |
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| rushiagr | jgriffith: you know which company he is from? if it is NTT I can track him down | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: ntt | 16:27 |
| avishay | rushiagr: abhishek.kekane@nttdata.com | 16:27 |
| thingee | jgriffith: I haven't...but I just wanted to say I think the taskflow reviews should get some good priority. Good things in core are dependent on these getting through. | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | I can send him an email | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | thingee: agree | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | but I wanted to make sure where we were in terms of taskflow in general | 16:28 |
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| avishay | caitlin56: we'll have to see how to get all the backups, and only the backups, but yes - we'll figure something out | 16:28 |
| thingee | I think everyone else has been way better than me on getting those through, and I'll try better to get those reviewed. | 16:28 |
| rushiagr | cool | 16:28 |
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| Abhishek | jgriffith: I'm Abhishek, but that's not my email | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | Everybody went off with ideas about "states, consistency etc" but I haven't really seen/heard anything about that | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | Abhishek: ha! | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | Abhishek: well, welcome at any rate | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | Abhishek: sounds like you need to update launchpad :) | 16:29 |
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| Abhishek | yeah, I don't think you guys were looking for me :) | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | Abhishek: are you still planning on working on this? | 16:29 |
| thingee | I asked DuncanT about it yesterday, but I don't think it's going to happen in I-2...which means not likely in I. | 16:29 |
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| jgriffith | Ohh... it's not your blueprint? | 16:29 |
| avishay | this is not the Abhishek you're looking for? | 16:29 |
| DuncanT | I'm hopeful about I-2 thingee | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | avishay: hehe | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: TBH at this point I'm doubtful | 16:30 |
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| Abhishek | yep, I don't have anything assigned to me in taskflow | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | The next two weeks are basicly dead weeks | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | Abhishek: alright then | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | I'll try and track the submitter down offline | 16:30 |
| avishay | jgriffith: for me these are the 2 most productive weeks of the year - no meetings! :) | 16:30 |
| thingee | DuncanT: if harlowja_away and I can help in anyway, please let us know. We've been tossing around ideas...but we're available if you want to discuss ideas. | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | avishay: actually that's a really good point :) | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | Ok, that was a noop topic | 16:31 |
| avishay | jgriffith: speaking of which , are we canceling the next one/two? | 16:31 |
| winston-1 | jgriffith: not for me. :) we don't do xmas much here | 16:31 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: I think avishay is volunteering to keep Cinder going for the next two weeks. ;-) | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | winston-1: indeed | 16:31 |
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| jgriffith | winston-1: I actually thought of that while typing that | 16:31 |
| rushiagr | winston-1: avishay same goes with me too, here in India :) | 16:31 |
| DuncanT | thingee: I'm trying to go through the code and put in all the transition points, with no enforcement... I think the enforcement code can better be written by anybody who isn't me | 16:31 |
| avishay | winston-1: rushiagr :) | 16:31 |
| DuncanT | thingee: I should have that done before I finish for xmas | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | ok ok... | 16:31 |
| * jgriffith is an idiot | 16:32 | |
| DuncanT | thingee: Does that make sense? | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | ollie1: you about? | 16:32 |
| ollie1 | yep | 16:32 |
| avishay | jgriffith: nah, don't be so hard on yourself :) | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | #topic admin-capabilities | 16:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "admin-capabilities (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:32 | |
| jgriffith | avishay: :) | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/admin-defined-capabilities | 16:32 |
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| jgriffith | ollie1: so I'm afraid I need some help understanding the benefit here | 16:33 |
| ollie1 | so the controversy here is whether to put these into the db or config? | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | ollie1: I'm again the only one that doesn't seem to get it... sorry :( | 16:33 |
| ollie1 | ok so | 16:33 |
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| bswartz | jgriffith: you're not alone | 16:34 |
| ollie1 | is there a way for an admin running a cinder installation to identify different backends acording to some arbitarty quality | 16:34 |
| guitarzan | first step should be to nuke the word capability and call it backend management | 16:34 |
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| jgriffith | ollie1: not sure what you mean? | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | ollie1: form what context? | 16:35 |
| thingee | DuncanT: I have read quite a few state design patterns now. Some involving state charts too..I'm curious on your approaches. | 16:35 |
| ollie1 | so there is a set of backends that is high quality and a set that is lower quality | 16:35 |
| thingee | DuncanT: but yes it makes sense. | 16:35 |
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| DuncanT | thingee: I'll talk to you after the meeting? | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | ollie1: I'm with ya | 16:35 |
| thingee | maybe after the import stuff too ;) | 16:35 |
| bswartz | I think we already proposed a facility to assign arbitrary "capabilities" to backends, as text values in cinder.conf didn't we? | 16:35 |
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| ollie1 | maybe some local to vm's and some remote | 16:35 |
| avishay | bswartz: that's what this BP is :) | 16:35 |
| bswartz | doh! | 16:35 |
| bswartz | okay I'm no longer lost (thx avishay) | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | I thought that's what types were :) | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | I'm so confused | 16:36 |
| ollie1 | can the admin assign types to a backend? | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | we keep piling layer upon layer | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | ollie1: yes | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | ollie1: absolutely | 16:36 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: what if we allowed more than one key/value? types are good, but limitted to just one key and value | 16:37 |
| ollie1 | ok, so I don't know how to do that :) | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | type uses extra-spec entry "volume-backend-name" key | 16:37 |
| thingee | jgriffith: so in types you can set extra specs. When the capability filters run, how does it know a host has those additional capabilities that are set in extra_spec table? | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | ollie1: LOL | 16:37 |
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| DuncanT | jgriffith: This simply allows an admin to put their own labels on the backend, rather than being limited to the names | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: umm... why? | 16:37 |
| bswartz | it would allow you to form arbitrary groupings of your backends | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: if that's the goal it just seems like a lot of churn and yet another table/api for little gain | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: now that's different | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: but I don't see that at all here | 16:38 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: So if I've twenty identical backends but with different names, I can list the labeel in the type spec and just put the label in the backends, rather than continuously updating the central type spec | 16:38 |
| bswartz | you could label 3 different backends "red", 2 other ones "blue", and a bunch more of them "green" | 16:38 |
| winston-1 | jgriffith: because you guys don't agree with each other at all | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: if that's the driving intent I'm all for it | 16:38 |
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| DuncanT | jgriffith: I don't think this should have a table or an API | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | aggregate volume-types | 16:38 |
| dosaboy | so who/what would be the intended 'consuemr' for this new labelling? | 16:38 |
| dosaboy | consumer | 16:38 |
| winston-1 | so, with that, admin can stick any label to any back-end the way they likes | 16:38 |
| DuncanT | dosaboy: volume type definitions | 16:39 |
| ollie1 | dosaboy the cinder admin | 16:39 |
| avishay | winston-1: can i change extra_specs on a volume type that's in use? | 16:39 |
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| DuncanT | winston: Yes | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: yeah... sorry that was poor to say | 16:39 |
| dosaboy | ok so they would tie in | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: ollie1 but then what? | 16:39 |
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| caitlin56 | winston: +1 I have no problem with admins labeling. But anyone else labeling my backends would be a problem. | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | So I now have this "label", so.... what's next? | 16:39 |
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| DuncanT | jgriffith: So the type for 'silver service' just says 'any backend with the label silver' | 16:40 |
| ollie1 | so users creating volumes can specify the label they want | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: but there's nothing in the API here? | 16:40 |
| avishay | ollie1: not the label they want, the volume type they want - the user doesn't know about these labels | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | ollie1: ^^ | 16:40 |
| rushiagr | umm, isn't that same as volume type? | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | so how would a user specify that? | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: EXACTLY :) | 16:40 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: The labels get added to the capabilties list of a backend | 16:40 |
| thingee | _spec table? | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: except it takes it one step further | 16:41 |
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| thingee | whoops...so in types you can set extra specs. When the capability filters run, how does it know a host has those additional capabilities that are set in extra_spec table? | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: and says something like 'n' backends can all serve a single volume type | 16:41 |
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| ollie1 | cinder create --volume-type=silver | 16:41 |
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| jgriffith | ollie1: DuncanT correct? ^^ | 16:41 |
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| DuncanT | jgriffith: It can be used for that, yes | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: but that's not your goal? | 16:41 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: That is the use we envisage | 16:41 |
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| avishay | instead of my extra specs for "gold" being "volume-backend-name=backend1 or volume-backend-name=backend5 or volume-backend-name=backend6" i can say "gold:label=gold" | 16:41 |
| rushiagr | jgriffith: true, but that all can be done already by Cinder, isnt it? | 16:41 |
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| dosaboy | rushiagr: it's an extra level of granularity on top of standard types fwict | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: yes, just can be *hard* to setup/explain | 16:42 |
| DuncanT | It is nothing on top of types. It still is types | 16:42 |
| caitlin56 | Who is creating these attributes? Don't we have to distinguish between attributes specified by a user and those that the backend vendor can change when it updates its code? | 16:42 |
| avishay | and then i never have to update my extra specs if i change backends, which i don't think works for volume types already being used | 16:42 |
| winston-1 | so i have 3 back-ends from 3 vendors, they all claimed to support X feature (but differently). i can evaluate the feature for those back-ends i have, and then based on the result, i can Backend A 'label, feature X-good', Backend B 'X-medium', Backend C 'X-low'. | 16:42 |
| DuncanT | winston: +1 | 16:42 |
| dosaboy | s/on top of/within | 16:42 |
| DuncanT | Taht's anotehr use | 16:42 |
| avishay | winston-1: +1 | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I see almost no benefit | 16:42 |
| guitarzan | because indirection! | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | avishay: DuncanT winston-1 We can't even agree on reporting capacity | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | avishay: DuncanT you think we're going to agree on "features" LOL | 16:43 |
| thingee | jgriffith: so in types you can set extra specs. When the capability filters run, how does it know a host has those additional capabilities that are set in extra_spec table? | 16:43 |
| avishay | jgriffith: if i add another gold backend, i need to update extra_specs? | 16:43 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: This system means we don't have to agree on anything! | 16:43 |
| ollie1 | jgriffith so this is a way around agreeing on anything | 16:43 |
| avishay | jgriffith: no - that's the beauty of this - the admin can decide everything | 16:43 |
| caitlin56 | jgriffith: +1 a label totally controlled by the admin is going to see limited use. | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | avishay: But that's completely arbitrary | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | avishay: what is "Gold" or "Purple" | 16:43 |
| guitarzan | avishay: you have to do "something" anyway | 16:43 |
| ollie1 | up to the admin | 16:44 |
| winston-1 | then i can create 3 vol types, with extra specs: type 1 'X-good', type 2 'X-medium', type 3 'X-low', instead of type 1 'slowfire', type 2 'appnet', type 3 'cme' | 16:44 |
| avishay | winston-1: can i change extra_specs on a volume type that's in use? | 16:44 |
| winston-1 | avishay: yes, you can | 16:44 |
| guitarzan | sure | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | wouldn't it be easier to build something on top of volume-types | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | so have a type-group | 16:44 |
| guitarzan | this is all just a big piece of indirection to map types to backends | 16:44 |
| ollie1 | easier in what way? | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | or I guess, sub-types would be the right way to go | 16:44 |
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| jgriffith | don't try and auto-set things because it won't work | 16:44 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: This is totally for admin convenience, and if you don't like it you never even see it except as an empty config option | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: I'll see it | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | I'll see it every time I look/work on the code | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | or a bug gets submitted | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | or I have to try and explain it at a training session | 16:45 |
| avishay | i don't see this as indirection, i see it as "we'll never agree on capabilities, so instead of limiting the admin to what the driver reports, allow the admin to define things that he/she cares about" | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | I'm not saying I don't like the idea | 16:45 |
| caitlin56 | jgriffith: right, if we can't agree on metrics then we won't agree on meta-labels. Labeling can only come from a) the vendor and b) the site admin -- and they have to be clearly separated. | 16:45 |
| thingee | I still need clarification on this. | 16:45 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: sorry, I meant 'you' as in 'an admin', bad word choice | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | I'm just wondering aobut the usefulness of the current implementation | 16:45 |
| bswartz | I really don't see any downside to allowing this -- it gives the admin a little more power a no cost to anybody | 16:45 |
| winston-1 | avishay: +1 | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | and the assumptions being made here | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I agree with that | 16:46 |
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| jgriffith | I'm just saying a more logical grouping might be better | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | so for example: | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | I create a volume-type of "foo" | 16:46 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: How about we work up some detailed usecases and send you those... I think you're looking at this totally differently to us | 16:46 |
| DuncanT | (please carry on with the example) | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | in the extra-specs I have the ability to set multiple backend-names | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | that does the same thing no? | 16:47 |
| dosaboy | jgriffith: i think an abstraction from types is the opposite of what ollie1 is trying to do | 16:47 |
| kenhui | It's essentially a poor man's qos//tiering. class of services decided by a human the admin) wihout input from the vendor supplying the storage. | 16:47 |
| dosaboy | if i understand correctly | 16:47 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: Except that can lead to really complex extra-specs that need updating every time I add/remove a backend | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | sighhh | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | cinder extra-specs add blah | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | that doesn't seem so hard | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | or "type-key set" | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | whatever | 16:48 |
| winston-1 | we usually would run a set of tests against the storage system we have and then we give them scores, aka labels. | 16:48 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: Using labels, I can change the label on the backend, rather than having to think of a central config | 16:48 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: you're right that you can associate a volume type with more than one backend already, but that approach requires you to update the volume type each time you add a new backend | 16:49 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: So you can also use them to temporarily disable a backend for new volumes, as an example, by changing the backend config rather than the central config | 16:49 |
| rushiagr | ollie1: is the discussion still on lines with 'ordering' backends wrt some capability? | 16:49 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: this approach would let you set your volume type once, and add new backends and they would automatically be able to serve that volume type | 16:49 |
| avishay | jgriffith: in my opinion the difference is that listing backends in the volume type would be harder to manage and be less flexible. with admin-defined capabilities, i can give quantities, booleans, etc and have more logical queries in extra specs rather than just a list of backends. | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: it's just updating the extra-spec key | 16:49 |
| rushiagr | ollie1: if yes, are you proposing grouping of volume types, or separate labels _inside_ volume types? | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: bswartz avishay ok | 16:49 |
| ollie1 | rushiagr: not really more grouping | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | ollie1: go for it then | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | whatevs | 16:49 |
| avishay | haha | 16:49 |
| ollie1 | than necessarily ordering | 16:49 |
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| DuncanT | jgriffith: If my extra-specs key has 25 backends listed, that's a bit error prone | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: ok | 16:50 |
| avishay | DuncanT: see the white flag waving? | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | if you have 25 backends in your cloud you've got bigger problems IMO | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: and if you expose that many types you're going to have another set of issues as well | 16:50 |
| bswartz | hyperscale here we come! | 16:50 |
| kenhui | doesn't see 2 be scalable since the underlying capabilities of the storage relative to each other change as u add devices. | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: ha! | 16:50 |
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| DuncanT | jgriffith: 25 of the same type of backend... if you want to disable one for a while for new volume for example, same problem | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: ok | 16:51 |
| avishay | 9 minutes left | 16:51 |
| ollie1 | jgriffith: do you want this re implemented using the db instead of config? | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | whatever crazy notion you have go for it | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | ollie1: no please | 16:51 |
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| winston-1 | avishay: haha, we now have a chance to make a peace world with all vendors in our DC | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | ollie1: you'll give thingee a stroke :) | 16:51 |
| ollie1 | :) | 16:51 |
| avishay | winston-1: :) | 16:51 |
| ollie1 | thingee suggested it! | 16:51 |
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| DuncanT | jgriffith: That was the only upside to putting it in the DB I could see ;-) | 16:51 |
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| kenhui | every vendor will be competing 2 be labeled gold. many gifts 2 the openstack admins will be had. :) | 16:52 |
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| avishay | i guess the upside to DB would be that you can change labels without taking down the service? not sure it's worth the effort though? | 16:52 |
| winston-1 | kenhui: not really, it's not for marketing, it's for operation. | 16:52 |
| caitlin56 | I'd like to see the following use-case explained: admin has set up their categorization rules for three different vendor backends. Then Vendor Z updates their volume driver. What of the prior work is kept, and what is at risk? | 16:52 |
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| ollie1 | avishay: yup | 16:53 |
| avishay | kenhui: nobody except for the admin knows about extra specs or labels | 16:53 |
| avishay | caitlin56: no driver updates necessary | 16:53 |
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| DuncanT | caitlin56: The vendor can't touch these label... they are entirely defined by cinder.conf on the volume service node(s) | 16:53 |
| ollie1 | caitlin56: no work is necessary, the admin could decide to change the label on that backend | 16:54 |
| avishay | 6 minutes remaining, still have 1 topic in the queue | 16:54 |
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| caitlin56 | ollie: so the heavy lifting is on the admin to determine if an update changed any of their rules. correct? | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | #topic why is type-manage an extension | 16:54 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: I don't knwo :) | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | know | 16:55 |
| ollie1 | yes, they have to decide whether performance changed in any way | 16:55 |
| thingee | Why is type manage an extension? Is it because we think some admins don't want that expose in the api? | 16:55 |
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| thingee | and to set things manually in the db | 16:55 |
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| thingee | that's all I can come up with | 16:55 |
| guitarzan | you can policy it out even if it's in the api | 16:55 |
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| thingee | guitarzan: exactly | 16:55 |
| guitarzan | does anyone have a better answr than "cruft?" | 16:55 |
| avishay | git blame ... who put it there? :) | 16:56 |
| winston-1 | avishay: i guess it's jgriffith | 16:56 |
| kenhui | this is completely admin defined. in theory, he could change labels at anytime even if nothing changes with the storage just cuz he feels like it. | 16:56 |
| thingee | my proposal was to bring it in since types is already core | 16:56 |
| winston-1 | kenhui: why not, that's the beauty of it | 16:56 |
| winston-1 | thingee: +1000 | 16:56 |
| avishay | thingee: +1001 | 16:56 |
| DuncanT | What does the type manage API provide? I can't say I've looked | 16:57 |
| thingee | ok, that's all | 16:57 |
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| winston-1 | DuncanT: create/delete/update type, extra specs | 16:57 |
| thingee | crud | 16:57 |
| avishay | thingee: any backward compatibility issues with moving it? i'm sure DuncanT wants to know :P | 16:57 |
| DuncanT | Ah, that one... sounds core to me, as long as the policy rules don't suddenly need an update | 16:57 |
| thingee | where core just provides the "R" of crud :) | 16:58 |
| DuncanT | (Avishay knows me so well...) | 16:58 |
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| kenhui | winston-1: no issues. just clarifying this a admin defined process. | 16:58 |
| thingee | avishay, DuncanT: I think you guys can trust me on backewards compatibility. | 16:58 |
| avishay | DuncanT and his moving bus... | 16:58 |
| thingee | ;) | 16:58 |
| avishay | thingee: yessir | 16:58 |
| thingee | even spelling it right | 16:58 |
| guitarzan | buses that don't move are called buildings | 16:58 |
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| avishay | :) | 16:59 |
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| avishay | 1 minute left... | 16:59 |
| DuncanT | guitarzan: You've not seen the traffic round here.... | 16:59 |
| thingee | I'm done | 16:59 |
| thingee | jgriffith: ^ | 16:59 |
| avishay | one more topic - is next week canceled? | 16:59 |
| avishay | and the week after? | 16:59 |
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| thingee | xmas for some folks next meeting | 17:00 |
| avishay | and then new years | 17:00 |
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| thingee | jgriffith: end meeting? | 17:00 |
| avishay | thingee: i think he's on mute | 17:01 |
| bswartz | time's up | 17:01 |
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| * hartsocks waves | 17:01 | |
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| garyk | \o | 17:02 |
| jgriffith | #endmeeting | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 18 17:02:13 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-12-18-16.00.html | 17:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-12-18-16.00.txt | 17:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-12-18-16.00.log.html | 17:02 |
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| hartsocks | #startmeeting vmwareapi | 17:02 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 18 17:02:29 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hartsocks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)" | 17:02 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi' | 17:02 |
| hartsocks | hi folks. | 17:02 |
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| hartsocks | Who's about? | 17:02 |
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| garyk | i'm here (may have to leave in the middle) | 17:03 |
| arnaud | hi guys | 17:03 |
| * mdbooth is lurking | 17:03 | |
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| tjones | hi | 17:04 |
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| tjones | anyone here? | 17:05 |
| hartsocks | Well, I'll just start by saying that Wednesday next week is a holiday for many of us, then New Year's. Is there any objection to canceling this meeting until January 8th? | 17:05 |
| hartsocks | tjones: pong | 17:05 |
| tjones | hartsocks: yo | 17:05 |
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| * hartsocks imagines someone bubbling with rage: what?!? no meeting!?! I *live* for meetings! | 17:06 | |
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| tjones | lol | 17:06 |
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| arnaud | :) | 17:07 |
| hartsocks | I'm taking the silence as there's no objection to taking 2 weeks off of meetings. | 17:07 |
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| hartsocks | Today's agenda... | 17:07 |
| hartsocks | Blueprints, high priority bugs, then open discussion | 17:07 |
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| hartsocks | #topic blueprints | 17:08 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)" | 17:08 | |
| hartsocks | if you have a BP to get into icehouse-2 and it's not approved you *might* be in trouble. | 17:08 |
| hartsocks | So far, I'm the only one in trouble. | 17:08 |
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| hartsocks | Here's what I have recorded at the broader team's priorities (based on past discussions) | 17:09 |
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| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/vmware-image-cache-management | 17:09 |
| hartsocks | garyk: that's you | 17:09 |
| hartsocks | that's approved and ready. | 17:10 |
| garyk | yup. it is in the works. needs a rebase and some refactoring following the generic aging | 17:10 |
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| garyk | it will be ready for review by friday | 17:10 |
| hartsocks | awesome. | 17:10 |
| hartsocks | next up... | 17:11 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/vmware-vsan-support | 17:11 |
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| hartsocks | vuil: ping? | 17:11 |
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| hartsocks | That's approved for i-2 but I don't see code on it yet. | 17:11 |
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| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/autowsdl-repair | 17:12 |
| hartsocks | That's mine. It's not approved. | 17:12 |
| arnaud | Vui told me that he will send it in 2 to 3 days | 17:12 |
| hartsocks | arnaud: okay cool. | 17:12 |
| hartsocks | on my BP, I've edited it quite a bit and I've ditched my first implementation completely. I'm still optimistic I can post something by the end of this week. | 17:13 |
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| garyk | vui is on PTO | 17:13 |
| hartsocks | vui: t'is the season | 17:13 |
| garyk | his code is WIP progress at the moment - needs a few test cases (actually the CI is running on the vSan code :)) | 17:14 |
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| garyk | i will be back in a few min ... | 17:14 |
| hartsocks | np | 17:14 |
| hartsocks | I have one more BP listed for icehouse-2 | 17:14 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/vmware-datastore-storage-backend | 17:14 |
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| hartsocks | arnaud: that's yours | 17:14 |
| hartsocks | It's approved. | 17:15 |
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| hartsocks | But I see no 'series goal' marked and no milestone. I just have notes that we wanted this done in i-2. | 17:15 |
| arnaud | working on it, need to address several comments | 17:15 |
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| hartsocks | Could you mark the series goal and milestone? I'm worried if you don't it will be bumped on accident. | 17:16 |
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| arnaud | ok, doing that now | 17:16 |
| smurugesan | There is a new bp from Maithem :- https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/use-driver-usage-stats | 17:16 |
| * hartsocks still reading | 17:17 | |
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| hartsocks | smurugesan: that's *interesting* it fixes one of my chief complaints about nova-compute design. | 17:17 |
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| smurugesan | yes, we have been having issues with usage stats, especially disk usage | 17:18 |
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| hartsocks | smurugesan: we should watch that one and provide a patch for the drivers once it gets further along | 17:19 |
| smurugesan | yup | 17:19 |
| hartsocks | #action follow up on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/use-driver-usage-stats | 17:19 |
| smurugesan | I guess no milestones/goals are set on this one. | 17:19 |
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| hartsocks | sometimes that can mean the BP won't happen anytime soon, other times it's just because someone forgot to say. | 17:20 |
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| hartsocks | (which is why I nag about setting those) | 17:20 |
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| hartsocks | I have 2 more BP that this team is looking to get committed in IceHouse. | 17:21 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/vmware-datastore-storage-backend | 17:21 |
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| hartsocks | arnaud: that's you again, and *approved*! | 17:21 |
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| hartsocks | ah, I see you marked it as i-2. | 17:21 |
| arnaud | yes | 17:21 |
| hartsocks | That means I made a mistake in my notes. | 17:22 |
| garyk | we will also need to open a bp for iso support. i am currently looking into that. | 17:22 |
| garyk | that is, booting from an iso. | 17:22 |
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| hartsocks | Okay, but that won't be until i-3 right? | 17:22 |
| arnaud | wait gary, it doesn't work? | 17:23 |
| garyk | arnaud: i discovered a few problems this morning :( | 17:24 |
| garyk | i have fixed them and am currently writing tests | 17:24 |
| arnaud | ok sounds good | 17:24 |
| hartsocks | I was surprised to hear ISO boot doesn't work, actually. | 17:24 |
| garyk | arnaud: it was too good to be true | 17:24 |
| hartsocks | Is that really a BP or is it a bug fix? | 17:25 |
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| arnaud | yeah... | 17:25 |
| garyk | it is a new feature so i guess that is a bp | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | okay. | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | I just thought it was already there. | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | So I'll list ISO support under our i-3 goals once that's posted. | 17:26 |
| hartsocks | I have one other BP listed for i-3... | 17:26 |
| hartsocks | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/config-validation-script | 17:26 |
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| garyk | ok. sounds good | 17:26 |
| winston-d | wc | 17:27 |
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| hartsocks | I've had a few emails with Oleg. | 17:27 |
| hartsocks | He's making progress on some of the Oslo related parts of this. | 17:27 |
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| hartsocks | I'll ramp up on it later this week. | 17:28 |
| hartsocks | Is there any BP I've missed? | 17:28 |
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| tjones | i think we have a few more from our meeting yesterday - lets sync offline cause i don't want to hijack the rest of the meeting | 17:29 |
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| hartsocks | okay. | 17:29 |
| hartsocks | But if you want to make icehouse-2 you need to have them status "accepted" or at least called out to a core-reviewer by tomorrow. | 17:30 |
| hartsocks | Let's switch to bugs | 17:30 |
| hartsocks | #topic bugs | 17:30 |
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| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1180044 | 17:30 |
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| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1180044 in nova "nova failures when vCenter has multiple datacenters" [High,Fix committed] | 17:30 |
| hartsocks | This is our #1 priority bug right now. It's been committed. And we're backporting? | 17:31 |
| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1260075 | 17:32 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1260075 in openstack-vmwareapi-team "VMware: NotAuthenticated occurred in the call to RetrievePropertiesEx" [High,Confirmed] | 17:32 |
| hartsocks | This is #2 and it's still waiting on one more +2 | 17:32 |
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| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1230047 | 17:33 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1230047 in nova "VMware: spawning large amounts of VMs concurrently sometimes causes "VMDK lock" error" [High,In progress] | 17:33 |
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| hartsocks | This one is #3 but there's no reviews on it. | 17:33 |
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| hartsocks | This is our #4 ... | 17:35 |
| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1246848 | 17:35 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1246848 in nova "VMWare: AssertionError: Trying to re-send() an already-triggered event." [High,In progress] | 17:35 |
| hartsocks | also in need of review... | 17:35 |
| hartsocks | no +1s, no −1s … nuthin. | 17:35 |
| hartsocks | Get on it! | 17:35 |
| hartsocks | yeah, I probably need to get on it myself. | 17:36 |
| hartsocks | :-) | 17:36 |
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| hartsocks | 4 more. | 17:36 |
| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1246848 | 17:37 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1246848 in nova "VMWare: AssertionError: Trying to re-send() an already-triggered event." [High,In progress] | 17:37 |
| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1258179 | 17:37 |
| garyk | i need to head out to the local xmas party (:)). wishing you guys a happy new year and merry xmas. catch up with you again on elvi's birthday | 17:37 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1258179 in nova "VMware: timeouts due to nova-compute stuck at 100% when using deploying 100 VMs" [High,In progress] | 17:37 |
| arnaud | merry xmas garyk :) | 17:37 |
| hartsocks | garyk: see you next year | 17:37 |
| tjones | happy new year garyk | 17:37 |
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| garyk | thanks | 17:38 |
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| hartsocks | ….just to finish the list then… | 17:39 |
| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1257038 | 17:39 |
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| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1257038 in openstack-vmwareapi-team "VMware: instance names can be edited, breaks nova-driver lookup" [High,In progress] | 17:39 |
| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1213269 | 17:39 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1213269 in openstack-vmwareapi-team "_check_if_folder_file_exists only checks for metadata file" [High,In progress] | 17:39 |
| tjones | i know - mine | 17:40 |
| hartsocks | So this is good. Nothing that's high priority or higher is unassigned. | 17:40 |
| tjones | im having trouble repoing the issue minesweeper is seeing. so still working | 17:40 |
| hartsocks | okay. | 17:41 |
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| hartsocks | Are there any bugs we need to put at a higher priority? Anything people have seen that hasn't gotten onto the high priority list? | 17:41 |
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| hartsocks | I recently triaged the list and assigned priorities. | 17:43 |
| hartsocks | There's only one bug I've not been able to look at... | 17:43 |
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| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1259389 | 17:43 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1259389 in nova "resize to different host failed by vcenter driver" [Undecided,New] | 17:43 |
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| hartsocks | well, garyk's left so… oh well. | 17:44 |
| hartsocks | Any other bugs people are working on that they need to discuss? | 17:44 |
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| hartsocks | #topic open discussion | 17:45 |
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| hartsocks | I have a big fat etherpad I've been working on... | 17:45 |
| hartsocks | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/vmware_security_strategy | 17:45 |
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| sc68cal | there we go | 18:06 |
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| sc68cal | hartsocks: should work now | 18:07 |
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| hartsocks | #endmeeting | 18:07 |
| hartsocks | okay, openstack is the user I was waiting on. | 18:07 |
| kiall | #endmeeting | 18:07 |
| hartsocks | #endmeeting | 18:07 |
| jeblair | give me one second... | 18:07 |
| hartsocks | heh | 18:07 |
| kiall | Oops wrong room - was the -alt I was meant to send that to ;) | 18:07 |
| hartsocks | well, we're all trying to end meetings so… no harm. | 18:08 |
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| kiall | Yep :) | 18:08 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | hi, any Neutron FWaaS folks around? | 18:09 |
| yisun_ | Yi is here | 18:09 |
| yisun_ | Gary may still sick | 18:09 |
| SumitNaiksatam | hi Yi | 18:09 |
| yisun_ | hi | 18:09 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | sorry to hear about Gary | 18:09 |
| yisun_ | right, since last friday | 18:10 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | yisun_: i see home online…i hope he doesn't join and takes rest :-) | 18:11 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #startmeeting Networking FWaaS | 18:11 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 18 18:11:22 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SumitNaiksatam. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:11 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:11 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_fwaas' | 18:11 |
| SumitNaiksatam | I am anticipating a short meeting | 18:11 |
| yisun_ | ok | 18:11 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan is here i believe | 18:12 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we discussed most items last week | 18:12 |
| SumitNaiksatam | the only new item this week is the patch posted by RajeshMohan | 18:12 |
| yisun_ | Yes, Sorry I could not join, we had a release | 18:12 |
| SumitNaiksatam | its still WIP | 18:12 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | yisun_: no worries at all | 18:13 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yisun_: i know how it goes | 18:13 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yisun_: garyduan was around, so it's all good | 18:13 |
| yisun_ | :-) | 18:13 |
| yisun_ | right, he gave me some updates | 18:13 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | yisun_: great | 18:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | so like I was saying, RajeshMohan has posted a patch which addresses the firewall insertion | 18:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | him and i had a chat yesterday | 18:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | to some extent it deviates from the discussion which we had | 18:15 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | so he is going to make the changes accordingly | 18:15 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | he is addressing adding the "service context" and then leveraging it within fwaas | 18:16 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | the "service context" can be used by other services | 18:16 |
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| songole | what is service context. Sorry, i didn't read the BP yet. | 18:17 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/62599/ | 18:17 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | songole: #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fmCWpCxAN4g5txmCJVmBDt02GYew2kvyRsh0Wl3YF2U/edit# | 18:19 |
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| songole | thanks | 18:19 |
| SumitNaiksatam | songole: it is a way for the user to provide context for the provider to insert the service | 18:19 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | songole: its a pretty simple concept - it includes references to one or more neutron resources (networks, subnets, ports, routers) | 18:20 |
| yisun_ | Sumit: so we plan to move the service context to a top level resource now? | 18:20 |
| songole | ok. got it. | 18:20 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | songole: the provider looks at the context and infers how to insert | 18:21 |
| SumitNaiksatam | songole: the user need not have to care about how the insertion happens | 18:21 |
| songole | Sumit: does it steer the traffic from that context to the firewall or it provides access to that context? | 18:22 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yisun_: we moved away from the service_context being a first class resource | 18:22 |
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| yisun_ | sumit: ok, i that is what I thought | 18:22 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yisun_: it will be an attribute in the service | 18:23 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yisun_: we are trying to figure out how we can make it consistent across services | 18:24 |
| yisun_ | sumit: this makes think if I should make service_group/object as a first class resource or not | 18:24 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yisun_: so that each service does not have a different way to provide this context | 18:24 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | yisun_: that should be | 18:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yisun_: sorry, i take that back | 18:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yisun_: i misunderstood | 18:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yisun_: my thinking was that we will use attribute extension to achieve fwaas service_objects | 18:26 |
| SumitNaiksatam | songole: to your question - the current thinking is that how the provider uses the context is left to the provider | 18:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | songole: there are examples in the google doc | 18:27 |
| yisun_ | sumit: remember during the summit, people asked if the service_object can be used by other services ? | 18:27 |
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| yisun_ | sumit: and I answered yest | 18:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yisun_: i think we can make that work as well | 18:27 |
| yisun_ | sumit: my current implementation is to make it a top level resource | 18:28 |
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| songole | sumit: thanks. I will read the doc | 18:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yisun_: ok, we might need to discuss | 18:28 |
| yisun_ | Sumit: how about I shot you an email | 18:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yisun_: sounds good | 18:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yisun_: we can get together and brain storm | 18:29 |
| yisun_ | sumit: sure, but it may need to be later, since I'm sick too | 18:29 |
| yisun_ | sumit: I don't want to pass it to you :-) | 18:29 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yisun_: sure…sorry to hear that | 18:30 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yisun_: we can take this item per convenience and at your pace | 18:30 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i would encourage everyone to take a look at RajeshMohan's patch once he uploads the second (modified patch set) | 18:30 |
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| yisun_ | sumit: sounds good | 18:30 |
| yisun_ | sumit: sure | 18:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | the current patch set will change | 18:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i didn't get into a topic driven agenda today since i wanted to keep it free form and follow up on a couple of items | 18:33 |
| SumitNaiksatam | I don't see the Mark McClain (PTL) is around today as well | 18:33 |
| SumitNaiksatam | tempest is still top of the mind for the FWaaS team | 18:34 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | anyone wanting to contribute please let me know | 18:34 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | does anyone want to bring up anything else? | 18:35 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | ok so we can finish early today | 18:36 |
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| yisun_ | ok | 18:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #info we will not meet next week and the week after | 18:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | on account of the holidays | 18:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | keep the discussion going on emails | 18:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | and/or we can meet | 18:37 |
| yisun_ | sure | 18:37 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | alright, thanks for joiing | 18:37 |
| yisun_ | thanks, | 18:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #endmeeting | 18:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)" | 18:37 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 18 18:37:57 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:37 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2013/networking_fwaas.2013-12-18-18.11.html | 18:38 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2013/networking_fwaas.2013-12-18-18.11.txt | 18:38 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2013/networking_fwaas.2013-12-18-18.11.log.html | 18:38 |
| SumitNaiksatam | bye | 18:38 |
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| sc68cal | jeblair: can we clear the topic ? looks like it's left over from the netsplit | 18:42 |
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| clarkb | sc68cal: jeblair: I will do it | 18:43 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: i got it | 18:43 |
| jeblair | clarkb: was just waiting for meeting to end | 18:43 |
| clarkb | jeblair is faster at finding what the old topic was :) | 18:43 |
| jeblair | clarkb: i did it an hour ago | 18:44 |
| jeblair | well, 45 minutes | 18:44 |
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| sc68cal | jeblair: clarkb: thanks :) | 18:44 |
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| stevebaker | #startmeeting heat | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 18 20:00:05 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevebaker. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 20:00 |
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| stevebaker | #topic rollcall | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| sdake | o/ | 20:00 |
| asalkeld | o/ | 20:00 |
| jasond | o/ | 20:00 |
| shardy | o/ | 20:00 |
| lakshmi | o/ | 20:00 |
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| pshchelo | o/ | 20:00 |
| jdob | o/ | 20:00 |
| bgorski | o/ | 20:00 |
| jpeeler | o/ | 20:00 |
| funzo | o/ | 20:00 |
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| zaneb | \o | 20:01 |
| spzala | Hi | 20:01 |
| arbylee | o/ | 20:01 |
| stevebaker | #topic Review last meeting's actions | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review last meeting's actions (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:01 | |
| andersonvom | o/ | 20:01 |
| stevebaker | asalkeld to raise a bp for migrating to oslo.messaging | 20:01 |
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| asalkeld | looking for it | 20:02 |
| stevebaker | #topic Adding items to the agenda | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adding items to the agenda (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:02 | |
| asalkeld | oops | 20:02 |
| stevebaker | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda#Agenda_.282013-12-18.29 | 20:03 |
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| stevebaker | anything to add for anybodies? | 20:03 |
| SpamapS | o/ | 20:04 |
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| stevebaker | asalkeld: should I re-add that action? ;) | 20:04 |
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| asalkeld | it's odd, I can't add it 'cos it think it's there | 20:04 |
| asalkeld | but I can't find it | 20:05 |
| shardy | stevebaker: maybe discuss instance-users if we have time | 20:05 |
| stevebaker | shardy: ok | 20:05 |
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| stevebaker | asalkeld: I've got no launchpad mail mentioning oslo messaging | 20:07 |
| asalkeld | ok, well I am doing it now | 20:07 |
| stevebaker | #topic Postponing meetings over new year | 20:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Postponing meetings over new year (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:07 | |
| zaneb | +1 | 20:07 |
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| shardy | +1 | 20:07 |
| sdake | +1 i'll be out ;) | 20:07 |
| stevebaker | So I'm assuming there is no objections to not having the next meeting | 20:07 |
| bgorski | +1 | 20:07 |
| shardy | I vote we skip two weeks | 20:08 |
| zaneb | yep | 20:08 |
| stevebaker | I'm not back till the 6th, so would be happy to skip 2 meetings | 20:08 |
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| zaneb | next two are xmas day and new year's day | 20:08 |
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| zaneb | so I definitely think we should skip 2 | 20:08 |
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| andersonvom | +1 | 20:08 |
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| asalkeld | stevebaker, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/oslo-messaging-for-rpc | 20:09 |
| stevebaker | #agreed Cancel heat meetings for December 25th and January 1st | 20:09 |
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| jdob | +1, I'll be out too | 20:09 |
| jdob | (and apparently late to vote) | 20:09 |
| stevebaker | done! | 20:09 |
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| stevebaker | #topic Inclusive meeting times | 20:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Inclusive meeting times (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:10 | |
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| zaneb | heh, there's a deep irony in discussing this at the meeting | 20:10 |
| pshchelo | zaneb: :) | 20:10 |
| stevebaker | So it is obvious that our contributors in Asia are getting a raw deal out of our current meeting time | 20:10 |
| stevebaker | There is no single meeting time that everyone can attend, so we can only mitigate | 20:11 |
| asalkeld | ceilometer alternates | 20:11 |
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| asalkeld | (two different times) | 20:12 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: yeah, can you explain how that works? | 20:12 |
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| asalkeld | so you get one time that's frendly to you and one that sucks) | 20:12 |
| asalkeld | we could use doodle to poll on times | 20:12 |
| stevebaker | For one thing, we should be having major discussions and decisions on the mailing list, so this meeting is more for real-time discussions and project admin | 20:12 |
| asalkeld | http://doodle.com/ | 20:13 |
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| pshchelo | +1 for doodle | 20:13 |
| andersonvom | or just figure it out using the actual timezones: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?iso=20131218&p1=24&p2=33 | 20:13 |
| asalkeld | stevebaker, ml is exausting and really slow | 20:13 |
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| stevebaker | so the most common approaches to meeting times seem to be: | 20:14 |
| asalkeld | (not the fastest way to have a design discussion) | 20:14 |
| stevebaker | - different times on alternate weeks | 20:14 |
| stevebaker | - keep a single weekly meet and add a monthly meeting at an alternate time | 20:14 |
| sdake | advantage of mailing list is it gives people a chance to think before they type ;-) | 20:14 |
| SpamapS | wait | 20:14 |
| sdake | asalkeld that is why you find it exhausting :) | 20:14 |
| SpamapS | we're supposed to think before we type? | 20:15 |
| sdake | I read that in an abc's of typing book SpamapS | 20:15 |
| jdob | someone should put that on a wiki somewhere | 20:15 |
| sdake | yes, openstack needs a quotes page, I elect jdob | 20:15 |
| jdob | that's probably a smart move, I say enough dumb stuff that I need to be able to limit the amount of times I find myself on that page | 20:16 |
| * jdob goes back into his corner so we can get back to talking about meeting times | 20:16 | |
| stevebaker | so should we consider alternating times like ceilometer? | 20:16 |
| sdake | stevebaker wfm, as long as we can get something reasonable for the us (eg not 3am) | 20:17 |
| stevebaker | because zaneb misses his midnight meetings | 20:17 |
| shardy | lol | 20:17 |
| shardy | I think we should at least consider if we can make alternating meetings without losing too many attendees | 20:18 |
| andersonvom | stevebaker: I think that's a fine approach, I'd suggest two different not so sucky times, as opposed to one really sucky time every other week | 20:18 |
| asalkeld | +1 | 20:18 |
| pshchelo | +1 | 20:18 |
| sdake | one problem is the openstack meeting channel is booked nonstop :( | 20:18 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: dammit, I just emigrated to avoid those meetings! | 20:18 |
| SpamapS | Sounds to me like the alternation just needs to be a few hours apart | 20:18 |
| shardy | sdake: Isn't there an alternate meeting channel? | 20:19 |
| asalkeld | else we might miss our ptl every alternate week | 20:19 |
| sdake | shardy yup we could use that as well | 20:19 |
| stevebaker | andersonvom: a non sucky time for you will always be a sucky time for someone else | 20:19 |
| SpamapS | right just go 8hours east of PTL one time, and 8 hours west of PTL the other. | 20:19 |
| asalkeld | har | 20:19 |
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| stevebaker | I think we should keep this time as alternate 1 | 20:19 |
| stevebaker | I'll post a doodle poll for the other time. | 20:20 |
| asalkeld | it seems to work for most people | 20:20 |
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| stevebaker | btw, don't google "post a doodle" | 20:20 |
| asalkeld | lol | 20:20 |
| jdob | ha. | 20:20 |
| SpamapS | doh | 20:21 |
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| sdake | day of week in doodle poll too, or shooting for wednesday? | 20:21 |
| stevebaker | #action stevebaker start a doodle.com poll to find an alternate meeting time for every second week | 20:21 |
| asalkeld | http://editorial.designtaxi.com/news-postittable1506/2.jpg | 20:21 |
| asalkeld | I want a desk like that | 20:21 |
| stevebaker | sdake: good question, I'll have to look for actual slots in the meeting rooms | 20:21 |
| stevebaker | #topic Ratify changes to heat-core nomination process | 20:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ratify changes to heat-core nomination process (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:22 | |
| stevebaker | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/w/index.php?title=Heat%2FCoreTeam&diff=38037&oldid=28589 | 20:22 |
| stevebaker | +1 on that change | 20:23 |
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| zaneb | +1 obvs, since I wrote it ;) | 20:23 |
| shardy | stevebaker: +1 | 20:23 |
| jpeeler2 | +1 looks good | 20:24 |
| asalkeld | +2 | 20:24 |
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| stevebaker | sdake, SpamapS any opinions ^ | 20:24 |
| zaneb | iirc randallburt gave his +1 in #heat last week | 20:25 |
| stevebaker | I think we can say agreed on that | 20:26 |
| stevebaker | #agreed ratified https://wiki.openstack.org/w/index.php?title=Heat%2FCoreTeam&diff=38037&oldid=28589 | 20:26 |
| stevebaker | #topic Autoscaling design | 20:26 |
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| SpamapS | stevebaker: reading | 20:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Autoscaling design (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:26 | |
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| SpamapS | +1 | 20:27 |
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| stevebaker | so possibly radix nor therve are here, but therve mentioned yesterday that autoscaling dev had stopped because there were unresolved questions about the design. | 20:27 |
| shardy | stevebaker: What unresolved questions? I didn't see anything on the ML recently? | 20:28 |
| zaneb | that's... worrying | 20:28 |
| stevebaker | I had assumed progress was being made, so I just wanted to make sure any lingering issues could be unblocked | 20:28 |
| zaneb | yes, I was about to ask, have these unresolved questions been asked on the ML? | 20:28 |
| stevebaker | therve isn't here - meeting time isn't convenient ;) | 20:28 |
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| zaneb | pffft, it's only 9pm there ;) | 20:29 |
| stevebaker | the french need their beauty sleep | 20:29 |
| stevebaker | oh well, lets talk in #heat or the ml to find out the status | 20:30 |
| stevebaker | #topic Software config POC | 20:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Software config POC (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:31 | |
| stevebaker | I sent out an email at the end of last week | 20:31 |
| radix | hello | 20:32 |
| radix | stevebaker: I'm here, sorry I'm late | 20:32 |
| stevebaker | radix: no problem | 20:32 |
| * stevebaker pushes rewind | 20:32 | |
| stevebaker | #topic Autoscaling design | 20:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Autoscaling design (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:32 | |
| radix | there are some unresolved questions, but they're not blockers for initial work. I haven't been able to get back to that in a while unfortunately but I should be able to start kicking it soon | 20:32 |
| stevebaker | ok, let us know if there is anything we can help with | 20:33 |
| radix | at least I'm going to submit some patches to just add stub "autoscaling" API and engine processes | 20:33 |
| radix | and then gradually implement the API | 20:34 |
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| stevebaker | that sounds fine | 20:35 |
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| * stevebaker pushes ff | 20:35 | |
| sdake | stevebaker sorry was in an email at the time, yes +1 looks good | 20:35 |
| stevebaker | #topic Software config POC | 20:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Software config POC (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:35 | |
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| stevebaker | So I realise architecture reviews are the hardest kind, but that is what is needed before this POC can be fleshed out | 20:36 |
| stevebaker | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/hot-software-config,n,z | 20:36 |
| zaneb | just as a general PSA, if you have unresolved questions about a design, post them to the mailing list | 20:36 |
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| *** galstrom_zzz is now known as galstrom | 20:37 | |
| stevebaker | Fundamentally it comes down to this new REST API, the rest is just details that we can chew over in later reviews https://review.openstack.org/#/c/58878/8/heat/api/openstack/v1/__init__.py | 20:37 |
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| zaneb | stevebaker: "" is "/"? | 20:38 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: I'm going to start needing the software config stuff so that we can do different OpenStack topologies .. so I will try to get going on these reviews soon. | 20:39 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: yes, its /{tenant_id}/software_configs | 20:39 |
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| zaneb | oh, I see | 20:39 |
| zaneb | thanks | 20:39 |
| zaneb | it's hard to argue with that API :) | 20:39 |
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| stevebaker | good! | 20:40 |
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| stevebaker | I'll let you all review that offline, but I also wanted to discuss cloud-init config in templates | 20:41 |
| stevebaker | I had some intrinsic functions for formatting multi-part mime, but I've gone off that idea https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/heat+branch:master+topic:bp/cloud-init-resource,n,z | 20:41 |
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| zaneb | good ;) | 20:42 |
| stevebaker | I'm now thinking that cloud-init could benefit from being backed by real resources, specifically subclass of SoftwareConfig | 20:43 |
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| stevebaker | so the software config resource relationship is currently config<-deployment->server | 20:43 |
| stevebaker | for boot-only config I'd like to add a new server property user_data_config, which would also allow this relationship config<-server | 20:44 |
| zaneb | that's not dissimilar for how volumes work now | 20:44 |
| zaneb | s/for/to/ | 20:44 |
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| stevebaker | yes, I suppose | 20:44 |
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| shardy | stevebaker: and user_data_config would take a ref to any type of SoftwareConfig resource? | 20:45 |
| stevebaker | anyway, I'll code something up and append it to the bp/hot-software-config reviews | 20:45 |
| stevebaker | shardy: correct. maybe it should take a list of refs | 20:45 |
| shardy | stevebaker: +1 sounds good | 20:46 |
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| stevebaker | or a single ref, and its up to the author to aggregate using a multipart config resource (which I'm writing) | 20:46 |
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| shardy | stevebaker: That will get interesting for cloud-init configs, because only recent versions allow sane merging of multiple cloud-config sections | 20:47 |
| shardy | I imagine the list of refs will be similarly challenging with other tools | 20:47 |
| zaneb | do we care about non-recent versions? | 20:47 |
| stevebaker | shardy: its up to the template author to know what their image's cloud-init can do | 20:47 |
| shardy | but good if we can make it work | 20:47 |
| stevebaker | I don't understand how to specify merge strategies yet though | 20:48 |
| shardy | zaneb: They won't work with multiple configs in a sensible way, you only get the most recent cloud-config mime part | 20:48 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: we care less after April which is when 0.7 will ship in an Ubuntu LTS | 20:48 |
| sdake2 | zaneb we care if we care about ubuntu 12.04 guests in heat | 20:48 |
| SpamapS | very temporary problem | 20:48 |
| SpamapS | also it sounds like it will work, just not well, right? | 20:49 |
| shardy | SpamapS: Ok cool, that's good to know | 20:49 |
| stevebaker | correct | 20:49 |
| SpamapS | as in, 12.04 users will just be limitted to 1 | 20:49 |
| zaneb | I think by the time this is released and in widespread use, it will no longer be an issue | 20:49 |
| shardy | we have a new enough version in Fedora/RHEL now so we should be good if Ubuntu will soon ship with >= 0.7.2 | 20:49 |
| sdake2 | SpamapS won't people still use 12.04 ubuntu after the next lts ships? | 20:49 |
| stevebaker | #topic Instance users | 20:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Instance users (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:49 | |
| stevebaker | 10 minutes | 20:50 |
| shardy | So I wanted to ask for review/feedback on this wiki page: | 20:50 |
| shardy | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/Blueprints/InstanceUsers | 20:50 |
| stevebaker | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/Blueprints/InstanceUsers | 20:50 |
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| shardy | I've got some feedback from ayoung and am currently thinking we go with something similar to option (2) | 20:51 |
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| shardy | stevebaker: Did you have an alternative idea to add? | 20:51 |
| ayoung | shardy, I owe you more feedback...been tilting at other windmills | 20:51 |
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| ayoung | X509 is option 2, though | 20:51 |
| shardy | basically I'd like to get everyone's suggestions dumped into the wiki, then I'll start a ML thread so we can discuss if needed and agree what will be implemented | 20:52 |
| shardy | ayoung: In the wiki, it's option 4 ;) | 20:52 |
| ayoung | is just a better way to authenticate per instance users | 20:52 |
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| shardy | ayoung: If you can add something to that section, describing how it would work, and status in keystone, that would be great | 20:52 |
| zaneb | oooh, I like the domain separation idea | 20:52 |
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| shardy | zaneb: Yeah, it's also a fairly incremental step from what we do now | 20:53 |
| stevebaker | I do intend to add an option 5, which is: | 20:53 |
| stevebaker | - store a fake keypair with the resource | 20:53 |
| stevebaker | - use keystoneclient instead of ec2token API to validate signed requests | 20:53 |
| stevebaker | - write some middleware and an engine rpc call to create a real token from a request signed with the fake keypair | 20:53 |
| shardy | we just create the instance_users in heat_keystoneclient in a different domain to the one we do now | 20:53 |
| zaneb | I mean, they're all filthy hacks to work around the shortcomings of keystone | 20:53 |
| stevebaker | but 2. and 4. show promise too | 20:53 |
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| ayoung | shardy, I think it is "in addition to" not something you can do by default. More like "If a cloud deployment supports x509, then it is the preferred method of authenticating the per instance users" | 20:53 |
| ayoung | zaneb, our entire profession is built on a foundation of filthy hacks | 20:54 |
| shardy | ayoung: Ok, but we can still start with option (2) using randomly generated passwords right? | 20:54 |
| stevebaker | ayoung: are there any plans for a native equivalent of request signing? | 20:54 |
| ayoung | anyone who says differently is selling something | 20:54 |
| shardy | then potentially add x509 support later? | 20:54 |
| zaneb | ayoung: quite right :) | 20:54 |
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| shardy | stevebaker: There has been something for oauth signed requests posted | 20:54 |
| ayoung | stevebaker, with what shall you sign it dear liza dear liza | 20:54 |
| zaneb | but domain separation seems like a pretty tidy filthy hack | 20:54 |
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| shardy | but the oauth patches seem to be stalled, or at least taking many months to review | 20:55 |
| ayoung | zaneb, its a bucket, dear henry | 20:55 |
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| shardy | Ok, so nobody's super-opposed to the domain separation approach then? | 20:56 |
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| ayoung | shardy, I endorse it | 20:56 |
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| shardy | If so that's good, as it seems the most viable approach to me right now | 20:56 |
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| shardy | ayoung: you would, it was your idea ;) | 20:56 |
| ayoung | shhh | 20:56 |
| stevebaker | its worth a crack. I'll also enter option 5. Any thoughts on what I said above? | 20:56 |
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| ayoung | that makes it harder to sell | 20:56 |
| shardy | stevebaker: Can you add it to the wiki with more detail, but basically it sounds more complex and has more missing bits to implement | 20:57 |
| stevebaker | *action <redacted> to propose solution <redacted> | 20:57 |
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| stevebaker | #topic open discussion | 20:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:58 | |
| ayoung | so option one is based on a flase assumption: you can';t dpo a trust without first authetnicating | 20:58 |
| stevebaker | 100 seconds | 20:58 |
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| zaneb | shardy: I don't know about a project-per-stack. Suspect we want project-per-project | 20:58 |
| ayoung | so really, the only options there are 2 and 3 | 20:58 |
| ayoung | option 4 is really option 2 | 20:58 |
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| shardy | ayoung: You can create an ec2-keypair with a trust token, which can be used to authenticate with our API via ec2tokens | 20:59 |
| ayoung | and option 2 works today, option 3 does not | 20:59 |
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| ayoung | shardy, I think we've established the problems with ec2 keypairs, though, right? | 20:59 |
| shardy | ayoung: but I agree, option 2 seems the only one which should work without abusing trusts and without adding lots of new stuff e.g middleware | 20:59 |
| shardy | ayoung: haha, yeah.. | 20:59 |
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| stevebaker | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to ""OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 18 21:00:05 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-12-18-20.00.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-12-18-20.00.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-12-18-20.00.log.html | 21:00 |
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| stevebaker | thanks all, have a good break | 21:00 |
| jd__ | #startmeeting ceilometer | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 18 21:00:21 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jd__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 21:00 |
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| dragondm | o/ | 21:00 |
| lsmola | hello | 21:00 |
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| jd__ | hello everyone | 21:00 |
| jd__ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Ceilometer | 21:00 |
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| llu-laptop | o/ | 21:00 |
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| thomasem | o/ | 21:01 |
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| eglynn | o/ | 21:01 |
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| dhellmann | o/ | 21:01 |
| ildikov_ | o/ | 21:01 |
| gordc | o/ | 21:01 |
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| nealph | o/ | 21:02 |
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| apmelton1 | o/ | 21:03 |
| herndon | o/ | 21:03 |
| jd__ | #topic Release python-ceilometerclient? | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Release python-ceilometerclient? (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:03 | |
| jd__ | I think we're good on that | 21:03 |
| eglynn | yep, no need AFAIK | 21:03 |
| dhellmann | +1 | 21:04 |
| jd__ | #topic housekeeping: meeting cancellation/re-scheduling over the holiday period (eglynn) | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "housekeeping: meeting cancellation/re-scheduling over the holiday period (eglynn) (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:05 | |
| eglynn | well, our next two scheduled meetings fall on public holidays here | 21:05 |
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| eglynn | (in Ireland at least) | 21:05 |
| eglynn | i.e. Thrus Dec 26th and Wed Jan 1st | 21:05 |
| jd__ | I think it's a good idea | 21:05 |
| eglynn | so I'd propose we cancel the Dec 26th meeting and reschedule the Jan 1st meeting to Thurs Jan 2nd | 21:05 |
| gordc | same in Canada | 21:05 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I'll be on vacation those days, too | 21:05 |
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| herndon | +1 | 21:05 |
| ildikov_ | +1 | 21:05 |
| apmelton1 | +1 | 21:05 |
| dragondm | dhellmann: Ditto. | 21:05 |
| llu-laptop | +1 | 21:06 |
| dragondm | +1 | 21:06 |
| jd__ | eglynn: well Jan 2 is going to be vacation still for a lot of people including me | 21:06 |
| jd__ | likely we can't skip both? | 21:06 |
| lsmola | +1 | 21:06 |
| jd__ | s/can't/can/ | 21:06 |
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| * dragondm will be driving home on Jan 2. | 21:06 | |
| eglynn | jd__: a-ha, I didn't realize that | 21:06 |
| thomasem | I'll be out the 20th thru 6th in Ireland :P | 21:06 |
| eglynn | so cancel both? | 21:06 |
| dhellmann | do we have anything pressing that we would need to talk about? I think it's safe to skip. | 21:06 |
| eglynn | or move it to the third | 21:07 |
| jd__ | I think it's safe to cancel both at this point | 21:07 |
| jd__ | unless something big pops up | 21:07 |
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| eglynn | dhellmann, jd__: cool with me! | 21:07 |
| jd__ | #agree skip meetings during holidays! | 21:07 |
| jd__ | :) | 21:07 |
| eglynn | \o/ | 21:07 |
| jd__ | I'll update the wiki to indicate the next meeting | 21:07 |
| jd__ | #topic use of the mongodb aggregation framework to serve out /v2/resources (eglynn) | 21:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "use of the mongodb aggregation framework to serve out /v2/resources (eglynn) (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:08 | |
| eglynn | yeah, so basically we're using an aggregation over the meter collection to construct the resources | 21:08 |
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| eglynn | #link https://github.com/openstack/ceilometer/blob/master/ceilometer/storage/impl_mongodb.py#L638 | 21:08 |
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| jd__ | I think I wrote that | 21:08 |
| eglynn | presumably because we need to adorn the resources with first & last timestamps, meter links etc.? | 21:08 |
| jd__ | eglynn: yes | 21:08 |
| eglynn | not that we do anything with those timestamps currently ... | 21:09 |
| eglynn | but we will | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | I think we expect clients to use the values | 21:09 |
| eglynn | once https://bugs.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+bug/1262335 is fixed | 21:09 |
| jd__ | oh yeah | 21:09 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1262335 in ceilometer "first & last sample timestamps not included in the Resource representation" [Medium,Triaged] | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | oh, haha | 21:09 |
| eglynn | ... but I digress | 21:09 |
| eglynn | the main problem is that the mongo aggregation pipeline performs sorting in-memory | 21:09 |
| eglynn | in this case operating over a potentially very large collection | 21:09 |
| jd__ | the main problem is mongo? :p | 21:10 |
| jd__ | #chair eglynn | 21:10 |
| eglynn | LOL :) | 21:10 |
| openstack | Current chairs: eglynn jd__ | 21:10 |
| jd__ | (sorry I'm being kicked out, so I'm letting eglynn chairing just in case I go MIA) | 21:10 |
| eglynn | cool | 21:10 |
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| eglynn | ... so the data involved is potentitally large, particularly if the GET /v2/resources isn't constrained with query params | 21:11 |
| dragondm | Honestly, some of that schema in impl_sqlalchemy makes me sad too... | 21:11 |
| dhellmann | should we track the timestamp values as the data is recorded or something? | 21:11 |
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| eglynn | (e.g. to limit to a single tenant for ex.) | 21:11 |
| * jd__ pats dragondm | 21:11 | |
| eglynn | so in production we're the seeing the following error ... | 21:11 |
| * dragondm feels better. | 21:11 | |
| eglynn | "terminating request: request heap use exceeded 10% of physical RAM" | 21:11 |
| eglynn | ... sad face on the ops guy | 21:12 |
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| eglynn | turns out mongo is hardcoded to abort any sorts in an aggregation pipeline that'll take more than 10% of memory | 21:12 |
| lsmola | hehe | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | oh, wow | 21:12 |
| eglynn | ... I did not know that | 21:12 |
| dragondm | Lovely. | 21:12 |
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| eglynn | though fair enough policy I guess | 21:12 |
| dragondm | Tho doing a big sort in mem is no bueno to begin with. | 21:12 |
| eglynn | so question is ... | 21:12 |
| eglynn | dragondm: yep | 21:13 |
| eglynn | does anyone recall if the justification for the use of the aggregate framework was just convenience? | 21:13 |
| eglynn | or something more? | 21:13 |
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| eglynn | a quick look at the fossil record on gerrit kinda implies it may have been just as convenience | 21:13 |
| eglynn | #link https://review.openstack.org/35297 | 21:13 |
| dhellmann | jd__ did that work, right? | 21:13 |
| eglynn | if that was the case, /me thinking maybe we should just revert to the equivalent map-reduce for this? | 21:14 |
| eglynn | coz in-memory sorting kinda gives me the shivers ;) | 21:14 |
| dhellmann | makes sense to me | 21:14 |
| gordc | i thought aggregate was a ' new feature' that newer mongo provided? i assume new features are suppose to be better | 21:14 |
| eglynn | gordc: I think it was new in 2.0.1 or thereabouts | 21:15 |
| * dhellmann admires gordc's optimism | 21:15 | |
| gordc | :) | 21:15 |
| eglynn | apparently another alternative is to avoid the need for sorting in-memory for pipelines by ensuring sufficient indices exist | 21:15 |
| ildikov_ | eglynn: like the idea too, I was reading about this issue in my quick research for statistics, I did not look good | 21:15 |
| eglynn | ... or google tells me anyway | 21:15 |
| eglynn | ildikov_: cool | 21:15 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: oh, if we can fix it with indices we should try that, too | 21:16 |
| eglynn | I think the default sort order for resources is currently user_id, project_id, timestamp all descending | 21:16 |
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| eglynn | ... not sure if we want the cost of maintaining all those indices on db.meter? | 21:16 |
| dhellmann | those are the big query filters anyway, right? | 21:17 |
| dhellmann | maybe not user | 21:17 |
| dhellmann | I'm not sure why we sort on user, to be honest | 21:17 |
| eglynn | yeah me neither | 21:17 |
| dhellmann | esp. for resources | 21:17 |
| dhellmann | samples maybe | 21:17 |
| eglynn | samples by timestamp first seems more logical, or? | 21:18 |
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| dhellmann | resource, timestamp | 21:18 |
| dhellmann | or vice versa | 21:18 |
| eglynn | yeah | 21:19 |
| dragondm | ^ one of those + | 21:19 |
| lsmola | eglynn, for timelines, yes | 21:19 |
| dhellmann | I think we definitely want indexes on resource, though | 21:19 |
| eglynn | anyhoo, seems there's broad agreement to ditch the aggregation pipeline unless we can make it work *without* in-memory sorting? | 21:19 |
| eglynn | (by skirting round the issue with judicious use of indices ...) | 21:19 |
| dhellmann | does this same issue come up with the statistics API? | 21:19 |
| dhellmann | or is the dataset small enough there? | 21:19 |
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| eglynn | dhellmann: I guess there would almost always be narrowing constraints in that case | 21:20 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: narrow timestamp, project_id matching etc. | 21:20 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I wasn't sure if they were narrow enough, but I suppose that depends on the TTL for the sample data | 21:20 |
| gordc | eglynn: out of curiosity what's the rough number of records we're talking about before the in-memory stuff becomes an issue. | 21:20 |
| eglynn | gordc: very good question, and I don't know the answer as yet | 21:20 |
| gordc | dhellmann: ttl stuff was what i was hinting at. | 21:21 |
| * eglynn doesn't have direct access yet to the deployment on which it came up | 21:21 | |
| eglynn | ... but I'm hoping to get access this soon | 21:21 |
| ildikov_ | dhellmann: if I know right statistics now works with map-reduce in mongo | 21:21 |
| eglynn | (so I'll be able to do hands-on sizing etc.) | 21:21 |
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| dhellmann | eglynn: I wonder if we could also store the first & last timestamp right in the resource document, to skip the map reduce? | 21:22 |
| eglynn | ildikov_: a-ha, yes you're correct | 21:22 |
| dhellmann | ildikov_: ok, good | 21:22 |
| eglynn | resources is the only case where we use an aggregation pipeline | 21:22 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: and update the resource collection every time we add a sample to the meter collection? | 21:23 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: yeah, mongo has an update-in-place operation | 21:23 |
| dhellmann | I have no idea what that would do to efficiency | 21:23 |
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| eglynn | dhellmann: ... but we still need to adorn the resource with links to all the associated meters | 21:24 |
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| dhellmann | we did that at one point, are we not doing that any more? | 21:24 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: ... so I guess we'd need to store those too in the resource collection | 21:24 |
| gordc | eglynn: we do something similar for sql -- updating resource for every meter.... i notice deadlock errors because of it | 21:24 |
| dhellmann | maybe that's what this change you linked to was doing | 21:24 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: ... I'm pretty sure we're still doing it | 21:24 |
| eglynn | actually I think horizon depends on those links being present | 21:25 |
| eglynn | lsmola: ^^^ am I recalling that correctly? | 21:25 |
| lsmola | eglynn, thinking | 21:25 |
| lsmola | eglynn, checking | 21:26 |
| eglynn | i.e. horizon walks the resource representation at some point and grabs all the meter links | 21:26 |
| dhellmann | yeah, we have $addToSet for the meter with some metadata, but not the timestamps | 21:26 |
| gordc | eglynn: if i recall, we build those links on the api side...i don't think we actually associate them in database (might be wrong here) | 21:26 |
| dhellmann | impl_mongodb.py line 411 | 21:26 |
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| lsmola | eglynn, yes I use to to get all resources for some meter | 21:27 |
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| lsmola | eglynn, though that is not very optimal | 21:27 |
| eglynn | lsmola: yep, here for example IIUC https://github.com/openstack/horizon/blob/master/openstack_dashboard/dashboards/admin/metering/views.py#L182 | 21:27 |
| gordc | dhellmann: whoops never mind then, guess we do store them in mongo. | 21:28 |
| dhellmann | but I guess the point is we have a couple of options and we don't need to pick the approach here | 21:28 |
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| lsmola | eglynn, yes | 21:28 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: exactly ... so I'll proceed with some more experimentation | 21:29 |
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| eglynn | ... see if I can work-around simply with indices | 21:29 |
| eglynn | ... otherwise use one of the approaches discussed above | 21:29 |
| dhellmann | sounds good -- is there a bug filed already? | 21:29 |
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| eglynn | nope, I wanted to pick some brains on the background first | 21:29 |
| dhellmann | ok | 21:29 |
| eglynn | (... the issue only came to light late yesterday) | 21:30 |
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| * jd__ back | 21:30 | |
| jd__ | eglynn: it was convenience | 21:30 |
| eglynn | #action eglynn file a bug to capture all the background on mongo aggregation pipeline memory issues | 21:30 |
| jd__ | if you have any other methods go ahead | 21:30 |
| jd__ | it was actually convenience AND correctness | 21:30 |
| jd__ | <dhellmann> [22:22:22] eglynn: I wonder if we could also store the first & | 21:31 |
| jd__ | last timestamp right in the resource document, to skip the map | 21:31 |
| eglynn | jd__: cool | 21:31 |
| jd__ | reduce? | 21:31 |
| jd__ | that won't work dhellmann , that what it used to be | 21:31 |
| jd__ | but as soon as you add a filter, that breaks | 21:31 |
| eglynn | a-ha, yes, good point | 21:31 |
| dhellmann | jd__: ah, right, filtering on something in the metadata | 21:31 |
| eglynn | there's is no static first & last, right? | 21:31 |
| jd__ | nop | 21:31 |
| eglynn | got it | 21:31 |
| jd__ | so I'm not sure there is an easy way to precompute those values | 21:31 |
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| jd__ | maybe you could just add a test case that handles the fact MongoDB is going to fail for some queries | 21:32 |
| jd__ | return a 542 Sorry MongoDB is there. | 21:32 |
| dhellmann | good point, we should make sure we're handling that anyway | 21:32 |
| dragondm | Heh. | 21:32 |
| apmelton1 | lol jd__ | 21:32 |
| eglynn | LOL :) | 21:32 |
| lsmola | hehe | 21:32 |
| jd__ | that links back to the #action eglynn have added anyway | 21:33 |
| dragondm | Error 599 Mongo saaaddd.. | 21:33 |
| thomasem | hahaha | 21:33 |
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| lsmola | :-) | 21:33 |
| jd__ | eglynn: all good on that? | 21:33 |
| eglynn | for now I've pointed the ops guy to a work-around to partition the resource listing per-tenant in a bash for loop | 21:34 |
| eglynn | so the sky is not going to fall in | 21:34 |
| eglynn | ... i.e. we've time to consider this and come up with a well thought-out solution | 21:34 |
| eglynn | yep, that's all I got on this, let's move on | 21:34 |
| jd__ | #topic promote Sandy Walsh to core? (herndon) | 21:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "promote Sandy Walsh to core? (herndon) (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:34 | |
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| jd__ | I think we got the candidature but there was not enough vote on that | 21:35 |
| herndon | yeah, I just don't know what the procedure is here, I saw a couple of +1s come through on email, but what happens? | 21:35 |
| herndon | ah, ok then. | 21:35 |
| jd__ | well it needs at least 5 +1 from ceilometer-core devs | 21:35 |
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| thomasem | I was curious about that, okay. | 21:36 |
| jd__ | and AFAIK it only got 3 | 21:36 |
| herndon | yep, that's what I saw as well. | 21:36 |
| eglynn | I'd like to point out that I think sandywalsh_ would make an excellent core once he's increased his review count and patch-landing acitivity | 21:36 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: yeah, I think that was where I came up, too | 21:37 |
| dhellmann | s/came/ended/ | 21:37 |
| jd__ | agreed | 21:37 |
| eglynn | yep ... so I wouldn't like this to be a discouragement to him | 21:37 |
| dragondm | Myself and thomasem have been working to tame the review queue as well. We could use some faster patch-landing (with appropriate reviews, of course) | 21:38 |
| thomasem | undoubtedly | 21:38 |
| thomasem | :) | 21:38 |
| eglynn | I think we could re-visit the question soon-ish if and when his stats go in the right direction | 21:38 |
| dhellmann | +1 | 21:39 |
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| herndon | ok, thanks for the explanation :) | 21:39 |
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| eglynn | dragondm: thanks! I noticed that ... I've been a bit remiss with reviews myself lately due to the productization work on my plate | 21:39 |
| herndon | +1 on faster patch landing for events btw. | 21:39 |
| jd__ | I feel guilty too, I'm trying to review a lot | 21:40 |
| thomasem | For visibility, there has been a ton of work behind the scenes over here - we've been working on load testing the drivers and in the process of trying to clean up the SQLAlchemy schema and what-not. | 21:40 |
| jd__ | anyway don't give up, every contribution is appreciated :) | 21:40 |
| dragondm | eglynn: thanks on those reviews on some of that event code, tho'. | 21:40 |
| thomasem | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ceilometer-data-store-scale-testing | 21:41 |
| eglynn | thomasem: yep, I suspect as much on the "behind the scenes" work | 21:41 |
| jd__ | #topic Open discussion | 21:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:41 | |
| dragondm | Yup. and there's a ton more event work coming doewn the pike soon, too. | 21:41 |
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| eglynn | cool | 21:42 |
| herndon | yeah, like up to my eyeballs amount of work to do | 21:42 |
| gordc | dragondm: i'm hoping it's after the holidays | 21:42 |
| thomasem | eglynn, thanks; just wanted to bring more visibility to it since it's been very time consuming. | 21:42 |
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| ildikov_ | I have just one quick question | 21:42 |
| dragondm | gordc: yah. I will probably put up a WIP branch for the event pipelines soon, but I want to add more docs to it, which will probably be after the holidays. | 21:43 |
| ildikov_ | Do we have an agrreement on how to handle the NotImplementedError-s in the db drivers? | 21:43 |
| jd__ | ildikov_: like we do currently, no? | 21:43 |
| eglynn | ildikov_: re. David's comments on https://review.openstack.org/62157 | 21:44 |
| gordc | dragondm: awesome. i really like the events stuff so feel free to ping me about them. | 21:44 |
| ildikov_ | jd__ yes, I've seen the patch set from you | 21:44 |
| dragondm | gordc: Will do. It's gonna be *cool* | 21:44 |
| ildikov_ | eglynn: yes, the question is originating from there | 21:44 |
| eglynn | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/62157/3/ceilometer/storage/base.py | 21:44 |
| jd__ | I didn't check that review | 21:45 |
| jd__ | eglynn: did you see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/62636/ then? | 21:45 |
| jd__ | *BATTLE IS ON* | 21:45 |
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| jd__ | i think the abstract stuff is not a good idea now, because we have a lot of drivers doing different stuff, and we might even split them by feature | 21:46 |
| eglynn | a-ha, I did not | 21:46 |
| ildikov_ | jd__: I just wanted to be sure that it is the way that we are taking now | 21:46 |
| jd__ | so this was a good idea in the early days, but it's getting weird now | 21:46 |
| eglynn | ok, I see the context more clearly now | 21:46 |
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| ildikov_ | jd__: I agree with those changes | 21:47 |
| eglynn | I'll review https://review.openstack.org/62636 tmrw | 21:47 |
| jd__ | eglynn: thumbs up | 21:47 |
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| ildikov_ | jd__: I just wanted to make it clear, before upload the corrections | 21:48 |
| * dragondm wonders if we could just have a 'Not Implemented' decorator... | 21:48 | |
| jd__ | ildikov: and it was a good idae :) | 21:48 |
| dhellmann | jd__: the right approach there is to put the related methods in a base class, declaring the interface | 21:48 |
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| dragondm | Might make it easier to introspect what features what drivers support for doc purposes... | 21:48 |
| dhellmann | then the methods can still be abstract, but a subclass that doesn't inherit the interface doesn't have to implement them | 21:48 |
| ildikov_ | jd__: thanks :) | 21:48 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: I wouldn't see the point to have all that code duplication again | 21:49 |
| dhellmann | what is duplicated? | 21:49 |
| jd__ | raise NotImplementedError is | 21:49 |
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| dhellmann | well, the idea is the drivers ought to be implementing those methods :-) | 21:49 |
| jd__ | well you have to implemented them if it breaks ceilometer not to have them, I agree | 21:50 |
| jd__ | but since most part of Ceilometer handle those case correctly, there's no need for that in most cases | 21:50 |
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| jd__ | I think record_metering_data is a good candidate to be abstract for example | 21:50 |
| dhellmann | ok, I guess I think the real issue is the lack of feature parity in the drivers rather than the implementation | 21:50 |
| jd__ | because likely ceilometer will explode if your driver don't implement it | 21:50 |
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| jd__ | dhellmann: yeah that's another issue :) | 21:51 |
| dhellmann | but ok | 21:51 |
| jd__ | if it is an issue, I think we're pretty good actually on that | 21:51 |
| jd__ | I mean I think we deal with that the best we can | 21:51 |
| dhellmann | yeah | 21:51 |
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| llu-laptop | Just wondering if anyone has the same problem with IRC in this channel as me. Mine sits silent for several minutes, and all of a sudden dozens of messages pops up at the same time. :( | 21:52 |
| lsmola | nope | 21:52 |
| gordc | jd__: would it make sense to have an events interface and then drivers would inherit that interface if it were to support events... if you support events you should probably support all the related methods. | 21:52 |
| dragondm | llu-laptop: I've seen that on occasion. I | 21:52 |
| dhellmann | llu-laptop: I get that sometimes, too | 21:52 |
| dhellmann | less today than other days | 21:52 |
| dhellmann | I think it's a freenode issue | 21:52 |
| dragondm | llu-laptop: er, I usually blame znc | 21:52 |
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| tongli | @jd__, now without these methods (throwing NotIMplementedError), what happens when it gets called? | 21:53 |
| dhellmann | tongli: the base class implementation would raise the exception | 21:53 |
| jd__ | gordc: yes I think it would ultimately, especially since we could add the ability to use differents drivers for different features | 21:53 |
| tongli | @jd__, will the behavior be same as before from client perspective? | 21:53 |
| jd__ | tongli: yes | 21:54 |
| dhellmann | jd__, gordc: right, that's what I meant by splitting the base class into different interface classes with related methods | 21:54 |
| gordc | jd__: yeah, i think that'd be cleaner...and then a grouping alarms as well | 21:54 |
| tongli | @jd__, ok, in that case, it will be nice to have the changes in the patch. | 21:54 |
| gordc | dhellmann: yeah, that's what i thought you meant | 21:54 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: ok I didn't get that, I'm all for that totally, with that perspective in mind | 21:54 |
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| eglynn | +1 for the splitting | 21:55 |
| dhellmann | gordc: we could also explore aggregation, and have a driver object have several subobjects with the real implementations | 21:55 |
| dragondm | dhellmann: Ah... yah. +1 | 21:55 |
| dhellmann | driver.alarms.some_method() | 21:55 |
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| dhellmann | driver.events.some_other_method() | 21:55 |
| dhellmann | etc. | 21:55 |
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| dragondm | Also good. | 21:55 |
| apmelton1 | dhellmann: +1 | 21:55 |
| ildikov_ | +1 for splitting | 21:55 |
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| dragondm | Avoids the db layer looking like the one in Nova with n hundred methods... | 21:56 |
| gordc | dhellmann: that sounds cool. | 21:56 |
| dhellmann | dragondm: exactly | 21:56 |
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| eglynn | yep, an anti-pattern if ever I saw one! | 21:56 |
| dhellmann | and it solves the duplicate implementation issue, because the default for the events attribute could be an instance of a single class with NotImplemented implementations | 21:56 |
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| jd__ | yep | 21:57 |
| dragondm | Bingo. And creates larger scale 'features' (i.e. 'event', 'alarms', etc) | 21:57 |
| jd__ | conclusion http://persephonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/himym-marshall-lily-high-five.gif | 21:57 |
| dhellmann | we'd have to figure out how much state would need to be shared between the different interface classes, so each driver might also need to pass a "state" object in or something | 21:57 |
| dragondm | Have the parent object pass itself to the child's __init__ | 21:58 |
| dhellmann | dragondm: I'd be worried about circular references with that, but that's the general idea | 21:59 |
| jd__ | next meeting will be the 9th January FWIW | 21:59 |
| eglynn | cool, call it a night so? | 21:59 |
| dhellmann | have a good break, everyone | 22:00 |
| thomasem | Likewise! have fun! :) | 22:00 |
| gordc | cheers | 22:00 |
| jd__ | yep have fun guys | 22:00 |
| eglynn | yep happy not-coding days | 22:00 |
| ildikov_ | and have some rest :) | 22:00 |
| dragondm | Merry Christmas, & Happy New Year all! | 22:00 |
| lsmola | have a great holiday guys | 22:00 |
| jd__ | #endmeeting | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to ""OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"" | 22:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 18 22:00:36 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-12-18-21.00.html | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-12-18-21.00.txt | 22:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-12-18-21.00.log.html | 22:00 |
| eglynn | let your wrists recover from the RSI ;) | 22:00 |
| lsmola | :-) | 22:01 |
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| shmcfarl | #docker | 23:05 |
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| notmyname | dockerdocker | 23:08 |
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