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| jschwarz | dougwig, ping | 12:49 |
|---|---|---|
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| dougwig | jschwarz: ack | 15:02 |
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| jschwarz | dougwig, good morning friend | 15:04 |
| dougwig | Morning. :) | 15:05 |
| jschwarz | It would seem Kevin Benton is hard to reach, so I'm having trouble getting in touch with him visavi https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-neutronclient/+bug/1353536 | 15:05 |
| jschwarz | Also it doesn't help that i'm in a different time zone than him (18:05 right now in Israel) | 15:05 |
| jschwarz | Maybe you can try pinging him during the day in #openstack-neutron? | 15:05 |
| dougwig | Sure, I'll try. | 15:08 |
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| jschwarz | Great. Nothing fancy except letting him know of the issue and post a comment on the launchpad, unless he insists on patching it up himself ;-) | 15:09 |
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| blogan | morning | 15:22 |
| dougwig | morning. you got double-rebased! | 15:24 |
| blogan | i noticed | 15:24 |
| blogan | glad i didnt fix it last night | 15:24 |
| ptoohill | cos | 15:24 |
| blogan | cos? | 15:25 |
| blogan | cosplay | 15:26 |
| ptoohill | no | 15:28 |
| ptoohill | crock of | 15:28 |
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| ptoohill | herro | 19:29 |
| TrevorV | dougwig, does the meeting number change at all? | 19:30 |
| dougwig | Always the same | 19:34 |
| TrevorV | Brandon is trying to see if he can get it working on Linux, could you host it real quick dougwig ? | 19:39 |
| TrevorV | I can't do a login to be host :D | 19:39 |
| dougwig | At lunch. I can in 10. | 19:40 |
| TrevorV | Alright thanks | 19:46 |
| TrevorV | (He can reboot into his OSX installation, he's just bein lazy) | 19:47 |
| orion__ | Does anyone have any information regarding the "Load Balancing Methods" for Icehouse? Specifically, what is "SOURCE_IP" balancing? Is this actually referring to persistence? | 19:48 |
| blogan_ | efficient! | 19:48 |
| xgerman | blogan ever heard about the cloud? Run your Linux in the cloud... | 19:49 |
| xgerman | I can hook you up with a box if that helps :-) | 19:49 |
| blogan_ | orion__: we've had that same question and there is a minor different but it escapes me | 19:49 |
| orion__ | blogan_: hah, ok :) | 19:50 |
| blogan_ | orion__: i'm very helpful i know, sorry | 19:50 |
| blogan_ | xgerman: can't I just toss my computer up in the air that is running linux and say its in the cloud? | 19:51 |
| orion__ | blogan_: no worries. i'll do a more exhaustive search later... moving on for now :) | 19:51 |
| ptoohill | orion__ SOURCE_IP balancing would be just that. There should also be SOURCE_IP session persistence which is a bit different from what i understand | 19:51 |
| ptoohill | For lb_algo, it 'should' send connections to specified backends based off of the 'source_ip' in session persistence it should maintain the 'session' for that source_ip | 19:52 |
| blogan_ | orion__: http://blog.haproxy.com/2013/04/22/client-ip-persistence-or-source-ip-hash-load-balancing/ | 19:52 |
| blogan_ | just a quick search on haproxy's stuff | 19:52 |
| orion__ | blogan_: ...reading... | 19:53 |
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| ptoohill | Java is not working. | 19:57 |
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| sbalukoff1 | blogan_: For today's webex, can you buddy-up with someone else there? | 19:58 |
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| blogan_ | sbalukoff1: whys that? | 19:59 |
| TrevorV | sbalukoff1, might be under the assumption that you can't join otherwise blogan_ | 19:59 |
| TrevorV | we're talking already and can't hear you if you are blogan | 19:59 |
| TrevorV | dougwig, will you be able to send me the recording links again so I can write up the minutes? | 20:00 |
| sbalukoff1 | Oh | 20:00 |
| sbalukoff1 | Yes, sorry, I was. | 20:00 |
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| dougwig | no, i think only the host can record, which isn't me. | 20:33 |
| dougwig | (if you clicked the record button, yes, i can.) | 20:34 |
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| TrevorV | Damnit... I forgot to click record. | 20:44 |
| TrevorV | I feel retarded | 20:44 |
| TrevorV | dougwig, I can't record this time... I'm host but it doesn't let me | 20:49 |
| TrevorV | Is that a feature that requires enabling or something? | 20:49 |
| dougwig | sbalukoff is the host | 20:49 |
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| TrevorV | Oh, he probably authenticated just before I did. It had said I was going to Host, but oh well | 20:50 |
| TrevorV | I wonder if he clicked record... :( | 20:50 |
| rm_work | the host is Stephen, so | 20:50 |
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| s3wong | dougwig: hello | 21:00 |
| dougwig | s3wong: hiya. | 21:00 |
| dougwig | most of us just got out of a webex, so we should get some good participation. | 21:01 |
| s3wong | dougwig: cool | 21:01 |
| dougwig | can you link the spec here? | 21:01 |
| s3wong | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/93128/ | 21:01 |
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| ptoohill | hello | 21:02 |
| dougwig | to summarize, the port objects currently used by lbaas would be going away, and we'd have have many cycles to switch? | 21:03 |
| s3wong | dougwig (and other lbaas community friends): the idea is that each advanced service has its own method to insert into Neutron; and we want a more unified method' | 21:03 |
| s3wong | dougwig: the original task list have someone from the service insertion / advanced service side (me, actually) to do the work | 21:03 |
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| dougwig | that won't work with lbaas v2, which will might hit upstream at the same time as yours. | 21:04 |
| dougwig | (though anything making it is seriously in limbo right now.) | 21:04 |
| s3wong | dougwig: in the mean time, it is not disruptive, as we aren't immediately removing the port object unless it is approved by the lbaas team | 21:05 |
| blogan | back | 21:05 |
| dougwig | s3wong: see here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/105331 | 21:05 |
| dougwig | (and follow the chain downhill) | 21:05 |
| s3wong | dougwig: as you saw today in the adv-service meeting: this framework change is even more in limbo :-) | 21:05 |
| dougwig | ok, so it won't break anything. can you give us a quick summary on the upside benefits? | 21:05 |
| s3wong | dougwig: instead of having lbaas doing all insertion work, it will be via a common framework from Neutron | 21:06 |
| s3wong | we aim to extend ServicePluginBase to include methods to grab serviceInterface | 21:07 |
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| s3wong | and since ALL service dbmixin inherits from ServicePluginBase, you get that for free | 21:07 |
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| s3wong | (of course, still need to invoke the methods) | 21:07 |
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| dougwig | so where are the dragons here that caused such a dustup at your meeting? | 21:08 |
| s3wong | dougwig: you know, I have no idea | 21:08 |
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| s3wong | dougwig: for markmcclain1 - it is because it is only 9 days left before code needs to land. That is a legitimate concern | 21:08 |
| s3wong | for marun, I actually don't know what his primary reason is | 21:09 |
| s3wong | but as I told you guys in San Antonio, this is a very simple framework that we would like to introduce and unify | 21:09 |
| dougwig | let me check if any of the current drivers are reaching around the plugin for this. | 21:09 |
| s3wong | and we have FWaaS and VPNaaS team backing it | 21:09 |
| s3wong | dougwig: OK. Thanks | 21:09 |
| dougwig | only one driver directly references Port, so i'm not seeing any major heartache on our side. | 21:10 |
| s3wong | dougwig: good to know | 21:11 |
| s3wong | dougwig: who is that driver, perhaps I should talk to that vendor's rep also | 21:11 |
| s3wong | ? | 21:11 |
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| dougwig | are there any weirdo network schemes you can wire up with the current interface that you can't with the new one? from a brief scan of your doc (sorry, have had no free time since this came up at your meeting), it didn't look like it. just an extra layer of abstraction, which could be gotten around. | 21:12 |
| dougwig | right? | 21:12 |
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| dougwig | (embrane) | 21:12 |
| blogan | aren't all the drivers creating ports for the memebrs? | 21:12 |
| blogan | sorry for the pool | 21:12 |
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| dougwig | embrane | 21:13 |
| blogan | because the pool port creation is not done at hte plugin level, so its up to the drivers to do that | 21:13 |
| s3wong | dougwig: not that I know of - in fact, almost all drivers should insert via Neutron port today, right? | 21:13 |
| dougwig | did we server split, or is it just me? | 21:13 |
| blogan | can you see me? | 21:14 |
| blogan | is anyone out there? | 21:14 |
| dougwig | blogan: for hardware, no, we assume hardwired/routed. | 21:14 |
| dougwig | well, we can. | 21:14 |
| s3wong | dougwig: blogan: so the new service insertion framework actually introduces more ways to insert: via external port (a controversial point, I know) or directly to another service (like a router) | 21:14 |
| dougwig | i can see you.. my writes are taking a long time. | 21:14 |
| sbalukoff | I'm here. | 21:14 |
| sbalukoff | I think. | 21:14 |
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| blogan | okay so I guess i don't understand the problem here then | 21:14 |
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| s3wong | blogan: pool port? so there is a Neutron port for a pool? | 21:14 |
| dougwig | blogan: i don't either. seems fine. | 21:14 |
| dougwig | s3wong: he means vip. lbaas v1 put it on the pool 1:1. | 21:15 |
| blogan | s3won: no there isn't, but i have seen drivers go and create them | 21:15 |
| s3wong | dougwig: blogan: hmm... OK, pool isn't really a service, so it doesn't inherit from ServiceBasePlugin... | 21:15 |
| dougwig | blogan: only one driver doesn't do it via the plugin methods, which means the implementation is easy to swap. | 21:15 |
| blogan | i couda sworn radware did that | 21:16 |
| blogan | hold on | 21:16 |
| dougwig | i saw them calling a plugin method to do it. | 21:16 |
| dougwig | but yeah, if my grep missed something, please check. | 21:16 |
| s3wong | blogan: but if the pool port isn't created via plugin, how can network driver know of its existance? | 21:16 |
| blogan | oh calling the _core_plugin is fine then? | 21:16 |
| blogan | sorry i have no context | 21:17 |
| s3wong | blogan: I think that is OK - though not "service insertion", but at least the driver know where in the network the pool is inserted | 21:17 |
| s3wong | dougwig: blogan: given the time conflict on us landing (if at all), I am OK with deferring making the change on lbaas | 21:18 |
| dougwig | blogan: oh, i missed it reaching in that deep. | 21:18 |
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| s3wong | dougwig: blogan: like when enikanorov originally planned for flavor, perhaps we can first experiment with just fwaas | 21:19 |
| blogan | s3wong: sorry still don't have the context, so what exactly is it that you need from lbaas v1? | 21:19 |
| dougwig | blogan: see the spec he posted a few screens up. it deprecates the Port object. | 21:19 |
| s3wong | blogan: lbaas v1 has no load balancer object, right? just VIP and pool? | 21:19 |
| dougwig | s3wong: given the timing, i'd agree on holding off modifying lbaas, yes. | 21:20 |
| sbalukoff | s3wong: Correct. 'loadbalancer' is a v2 object. | 21:20 |
| s3wong | blogan: so just deprecating the port object reference from lbaas | 21:20 |
| blogan | s3wong: ah instead of going through _core_plugin, just go through an abstraction layer | 21:20 |
| dougwig | i think it's on loadbalancers and members in v2, right? | 21:20 |
| blogan | dougwig: yes | 21:21 |
| s3wong | blogan: yes | 21:21 |
| s3wong | dougwig: members also... OK, will take a look | 21:21 |
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| blogan | okay another question then | 21:22 |
| s3wong | dougwig: just curious, members are VMs, right? why would LBaaS be managing the ports there? | 21:22 |
| dougwig | or if we don't have a port in there, we allow specify a subnet id ,which means at some point drivers will begin plumbing in ports. | 21:22 |
| dougwig | members are VMs or any IP. | 21:22 |
| dougwig | you can lbaas google.com, if you're so inclined. | 21:22 |
| blogan | s3wong: the workflow for the haproxy driver is that it creates the port first, then send it to the agent, which will then in turn update that port to activate | 21:23 |
| dougwig | blogan: that's for the vip, right? | 21:23 |
| blogan | dougwig: correct | 21:23 |
| s3wong | blogan: hmm... very tightly coupled with port | 21:25 |
| blogan | s3wong: yes it appears | 21:25 |
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| blogan | s3wong: does service insertion only create the port once and not abel to update afterwards? | 21:26 |
| s3wong | blogan: so haproxy driver runs in a namespace; so it will create a Neutron port (upon knowing which network it should be plugged into), then inform agent to do whatever config; then after config, the driver will activate the port | 21:26 |
| blogan | s3wong: yes | 21:27 |
| s3wong | blogan: update... meaning you want to unplug from a network and plug into a different network? | 21:27 |
| blogan | s3wong: well the plugin creates the port | 21:27 |
| s3wong | blogan: in service insertion we allow you to add interface (or remove) | 21:28 |
| blogan | s3wong: not that, but update device_ownder, device_id, and the bindings host_id | 21:28 |
| blogan | s3wong: and admin_state_up, which I'm not sure if it'd be a problem if the port is active before the vip is actually active | 21:29 |
| blogan | but its there | 21:29 |
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| s3wong | blogan: I see, LBaaS manages port state in accordance to when an instance is ready | 21:30 |
| blogan | s3wong: you mean the plugin does? | 21:30 |
| s3wong | blogan: actually that was my question - LBaaS controls the admin states / ownership of the port via plugin interface, right? | 21:31 |
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| blogan | s3wong: so the plugin will initially create the vip port, and set admin_state_up to False. It passes that to the driver. It is the driver's responsibility to activate it, in which they go through the neutron core_plugin to update said port | 21:32 |
| blogan | s3wong: so it's not calling back to the plugin to update it, other than calling plugin._core_plugin.update_port | 21:33 |
| blogan | s3wong: by it i mean the driver | 21:33 |
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| blogan | s3wong: well and the plugin too to create the port, it'll call _core_plugin | 21:33 |
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| blogan | s3wong: am I making sense? | 21:34 |
| s3wong | blogan: OK, I see. ServiceInterface allows you to insert into network, but currently we are NOT exposing methods to allow service to manipulate port states | 21:34 |
| s3wong | blogan: yes | 21:34 |
| blogan | s3wong: okay good in that I am making sense | 21:34 |
| blogan | s3wong: bad in that it won't work for SeviceInterface right now | 21:35 |
| blogan | s3wong: so yeah leaving lbaas v1 out for now is probably the best way to go | 21:35 |
| s3wong | blogan: it is a good feedback though. As we are focusing on having ServiceInterface as an abstraction to allow service to insert in different ways | 21:35 |
| blogan | s3wong: because then all the drivers would need to be updated | 21:35 |
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| s3wong | blogan: but we aren't accounting for services' needs to manipulate ports directly | 21:36 |
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| s3wong | blogan: when are you guys going to deprecate lbaas v1? | 21:36 |
| blogan | s3wong: So is a requirement that all advanced services need to use service insertion? | 21:36 |
| blogan | s3wong: that is an unknown right now, v2 will most likely go into the incubator | 21:36 |
| s3wong | blogan: "requirement" is a strong word :-) | 21:37 |
| blogan | s3wong: and v1 will most likely not be deprecated until v2 gets graduated. | 21:37 |
| s3wong | blogan: but we hope that we can flush out the interfaces/APIs such that all advanced services have a unified way to insert to Neutron network | 21:37 |
| s3wong | blogan: markmcclain1 also presented the incubator idea during our GBP meeting | 21:38 |
| dougwig | s3wong: i've noticed you reference instances a few times. lbaas backends can be hardware, not just nova instances plugged via neutron. similar, the servers that are being balanced do not have to be openstack, today. | 21:38 |
| blogan | s3wong: yes and an abstracted layer in which we need to communicate with neutron would be beneficial to remove all the tight coupling | 21:38 |
| s3wong | blogan: so within two releases then | 21:38 |
| blogan | s3wong: lol maybe? I hope? need more details on the incubator and graduation process | 21:39 |
| s3wong | dougwig: yes. Sorry for the misnomer. We definitely accounted for 'external port' case where the backend is hardware | 21:39 |
| s3wong | blogan: OK. Makes sense. We aren't going to introduce service insertion to lbaas v1 then | 21:40 |
| blogan | s3wong: probably best, sorry that I wasn't involved in that spec review, probably around the time I was learning about this | 21:40 |
| s3wong | blogan: we did talk about it a bit during San Antonio, if you remember :-) | 21:41 |
| dougwig | blogan: that makes almost all of us. | 21:41 |
| blogan | s3wong: lol yeah but even then I was still missing a lot of details | 21:41 |
| s3wong | blogan: true | 21:41 |
| blogan | s3wong: now having worked through it all I have a much clearer picture, but still there is some fuzziness | 21:42 |
| s3wong | blogan: please let us know (or ask now if you can articulate your concerns) | 21:42 |
| blogan | s3wong: no i think I get the service insertion now, but things with lbaas such as would it be okay to have the port be active before the driver actually creates the loadbalancer | 21:43 |
| s3wong | blogan: dougwig: the framework certainly isn't set in stone - we would love to get feedback from all services | 21:43 |
| blogan | s3wong: not sure if that makes a different, I would assume so since it has been coded that way | 21:43 |
| blogan | s3wong: i need to attend the advanced services meetings for sure | 21:44 |
| s3wong | blogan: sounds good. If lbaas is to be split from Neutron in the future, a cleaner interface without invoking _core_plugin may be a good idea | 21:44 |
| blogan | s3wong: ive been putting that off, too much to do | 21:44 |
| blogan | s3wong: definitely! that was my exact thought | 21:44 |
| s3wong | dougwig: blogan: thanks for you guys' time | 21:45 |
| blogan | s3wong: though if service insertion will allow me to update the port, but the API still won't allow the updating of some of the attributes needed, it won't help in that regard | 21:45 |
| dougwig | anytime, feel free anytime. | 21:45 |
| blogan | s3wong: still a step in the right direction though | 21:45 |
| s3wong | blogan: that is good feedback, and I will look into how to unify port related state info on this abstraction | 21:45 |
| blogan | s3wong: is service insertion using the _core_plugin? | 21:46 |
| s3wong | blogan: I think at the very least, admin state up/down needs to be supported by ServiceInterface | 21:46 |
| s3wong | blogan: for Neutron port, yes | 21:46 |
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| s3wong | blogan: for external port, would have to defer to kevinbenton to know how that framework works | 21:47 |
| s3wong | blogan: for service (router, for example). it doesn't need to | 21:47 |
| blogan | s3wong: there's still some other attributes that are updated on the port that we shoudl research more | 21:48 |
| blogan | s3wong: see how much they are needed | 21:48 |
| s3wong | blogan: yes. please let me know. certainly we can't possibly satisfy all services now, but feedbacks will make the framework better | 21:49 |
| blogan | should I join the advanced services meeting and send feedback there? or is there review with code up? | 21:49 |
| dougwig | by admin-state, you mean that there will be an interface to call into the service interface code for admin state, if it's a neutron port, right? not that it'll handle it directly? | 21:50 |
| s3wong | blogan: yes (that would be great) and somewhat yes (WIP code just went up, though it is very preliminary) | 21:50 |
| dougwig | can you link the review, or add it to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/lbaas_reviews ? | 21:50 |
| s3wong | dougwig: yes. and I would imagine it would also work for Neutron port | 21:50 |
| s3wong | dougwig: though depending on how external port is implemented, we can possibly manipulate the state there as well | 21:51 |
| s3wong | dougwig: sure | 21:51 |
| s3wong | dougwig: I will keep on updating the code leading up to next Thursday | 21:51 |
| dougwig | for reference, i use admin_state to actually influence the state of the logical objects on our hardware appliance, which is more than just network access. | 21:51 |
| s3wong | dougwig: blogan: though from how contentious today's meeting look, this may also go to incubator first :-) | 21:51 |
| blogan | s3wong: well it will live with v2 then | 21:52 |
| dougwig | s3wong: that was a surprisingly heated meeting. | 21:52 |
| blogan | advanced services meeting? | 21:52 |
| s3wong | dougwig: Oh, OK - so for your driver (A10?), it also intercept port status? | 21:52 |
| dougwig | yep. | 21:52 |
| s3wong | dougwig: I know. But since I am also in GBP, I kind of gotten used to it by now :-) | 21:53 |
| blogan | s3wong: it would have to because the plugin creates the port in a down state | 21:53 |
| dougwig | the drivers get admin_state changes, and i do stuff with it. | 21:53 |
| blogan | and every driver would have to update admin_state_up | 21:53 |
| dougwig | yes | 21:53 |
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| s3wong | dougwig: blogan: OK - that is good to know. So transition on port status does notify LBaaS drivers... good to know | 21:54 |
| s3wong | blogan: dougwig: so in conclusion, we won't transition lbaas v1 to utilize service insertion framework; and will work with you guys to ensure we have enough features to help lbaas v2 to adopt to this framework | 21:56 |
| blogan | s3wong: that sounds like the best option | 21:56 |
| blogan | s3wong: and I will try to attend the advanced services meetings | 21:56 |
| dougwig | s3wong: +1 | 21:57 |
| blogan | s3wong: when are those meetings again? i assume they are on wednesdays | 21:57 |
| s3wong | blogan: you will be most welcome there. dougwig already shows up here and there in that meeting | 21:57 |
| dougwig | blogan: wednesday at 11:30 mountain | 21:57 |
| blogan | s3wong: dougwig is everywhere | 21:57 |
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| dougwig | i was mostly flitting in and out for flavors, but i'll pay attention more. | 21:57 |
| s3wong | blogan: Wednesday 17:30 UTC | 21:57 |
| blogan | alright I shall set my calendar | 21:58 |
| s3wong | blogan: dougwig: yeah - I notice dougwig is also in tacker (serviceVM) meetings :-) | 21:58 |
| dougwig | blogan: #openstack-meeting-3 | 21:58 |
| s3wong | blogan: yes, as dougwig said, #openstack-meeting-3 | 21:58 |
| dougwig | ha, that one is hard, since i'm mostly asleep for that one. | 21:58 |
| s3wong | blogan: dougwig: thanks for the discussion. Looking forward to discussing things with you guys moving forward | 21:59 |
| s3wong | dougwig: likewise, lbaas meeting is either 6am or 7am for me, so difficult to attend all the time :-) | 21:59 |
| a2hill | did this go through? | 21:59 |
| dougwig | s3wong: totally agree. and now my only meeting that wasn't either 1) super early, 2) super late, or 3) over lunch, which is neutron, is moving to a rotating schedule that is even EARLIER than lbaas once a week. sigh. :) | 22:00 |
| dougwig | every other week, i mea. | 22:00 |
| dougwig | long day. | 22:00 |
| s3wong | dougwig: :-) | 22:00 |
| a2hill | Can anyone see this message? | 22:02 |
| dougwig | a2hill: no, you're crazy. | 22:02 |
| a2hill | ook, that's good :) | 22:02 |
| a2hill | Having funky issues with freenode today it seems | 22:03 |
| dougwig | freenode has been out back smoking a joint for about 2 hours now. | 22:06 |
| a2hill | heh, explains a lot. | 22:06 |
| a2hill | slacker | 22:06 |
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