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| sbalukoff | rm_work: That sucks. | 00:37 |
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| rm_you | sbalukoff: yep :( | 01:08 |
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| blogan | yikes zuul is backed up like crazy | 01:46 |
| blogan | im sure that is normal for this stage in the release cycle | 01:46 |
| blogan | ah man robin williams died | 01:49 |
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| dougwig | i think you just killed zuul. | 02:10 |
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| blogan | and a failure in a tempest test unrelated | 03:10 |
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| dougwig | at least you'll get the notice like 9 times. | 03:50 |
| yfried | blogan: I mean that I'd like to be able to do "lb-version" and get "1" or "2" in return | 03:51 |
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| jschwarz | morning guys | 07:32 |
| jschwarz | I encountered this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-neutronclient/+bug/1353536 a while back, which effects my ability to create a healthmonitor whatsoever | 07:35 |
| jschwarz | Can anyone offer a solution? seems like the launchpad bug isn't getting any attention :( | 07:35 |
| openstackgerrit | Stephen Balukoff proposed a change to stackforge/octavia: Octavia v0.5 component design https://review.openstack.org/113458 | 07:52 |
| sbalukoff | Dang... can't seem to log into launchpad to add comments to my own gerrit review above. :P | 07:56 |
| sbalukoff | Aah well.. I guess I should get some sleep anyway. | 07:56 |
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| jschwarz | anybody? nobody? :< | 09:21 |
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| Krast | :) | 09:33 |
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| dougwig | jschwarz: on that bug, yikes. the optional args are not being treated positionally. | 15:11 |
| dougwig | I'll add something to launch pad shortly. | 15:12 |
| jschwarz | dougwig, you mean like this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-neutronclient/+bug/1353536 ? | 15:15 |
| jschwarz | dougwig, It is caused by a patch Kevin Benton added a couple of weeks back which adds a nuetron --timeout argument | 15:16 |
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| jschwarz | Discussed this with Ilya Shakhat and decided I should talk with Kevin and see what he thinks (because technically its his bug) | 15:17 |
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| dougwig | ok. i put my $0.02 in the bug report as well. | 15:52 |
| dougwig | blogan: i think you got rebased. | 15:58 |
| TrevorV | dougwig, blogan is off today, not sure he'll be around to respond for you | 16:06 |
| TrevorV | 2ยข | 16:06 |
| TrevorV | Ha, sorry, had to look up the cent symbol and see if it worked in chats :D | 16:07 |
| dougwig | ok. if anyone needs our code today, be sure to pull it from the last patchset that blogan pushed, NOT the latest. it got stomped. ping me if you need help. | 16:07 |
| TrevorV | Alright will do | 16:07 |
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| xgerman | TrevorV, rmwork: not sure if you alreday saw sbalukoff's new proposal: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/113458/1/doc/source/design/version0.5/component-design.rst | 16:22 |
| xgerman | I got it from Susanne so I am not sure how well it's advertised | 16:22 |
| TrevorV | xgerman, I did not, but I'll look at it right now, thanks :) | 16:23 |
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| TrevorV | Anyone around that can help me with this? I'm trying to "./stack.sh" on ubuntu 14.04 and I'm getting this | 16:34 |
| TrevorV | 2014-08-12 16:23:47.883 | +++ nova flavor-list | 16:34 |
| TrevorV | 2014-08-12 16:23:48.254 | ERROR (AttributeError): 'module' object has no attribute 'add_arg' | 16:34 |
| TrevorV | Aside from that, I don't have a stack trace | 16:34 |
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| orion__ | TrevorV: maybe try increasing log level to get more output? | 17:01 |
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| vjay | Hey all! | 17:15 |
| vjay | Anyone knows/remembers why stats were moved from pool in V1 to loadbalancer in V2? | 17:15 |
| dougwig | hi vjay. because LB's are analogous to what pool's were in v1. we have plans to add stats to all the objects, but not in juno. | 17:20 |
| vjay | hi dougwig. LB == pool, didnt understand :-(. only thing common between them is the provider attribute i guess. | 17:21 |
| xgerman | the idea is that stats sort of get rolled up in LB | 17:22 |
| dougwig | well, they're both the logical root node of a single load balancer, is what i meant. the end result being that you get stats for a single vip/virtual server in both versions. | 17:22 |
| xgerman | also the stats stuff (for ceilometer) is going from a pull to a push system in Kilo | 17:23 |
| vjay | dougwig: vip of v1 == listener of v2. in V1 stats were rolling up max to this entity not difinely to the actual virtual IP level across listeners. | 17:26 |
| dougwig | vjay: but vips and pools are 1:1 in v1, so it's the same difference. | 17:26 |
| vjay | vip != virtual ip in V1 | 17:27 |
| vjay | terminology problem | 17:27 |
| xgerman | yeah, I am glad 2.0 improves on that | 17:28 |
| dougwig | ok, i sense a disconnect. how are the numbers between v2 and v1 functionally different? i know we want to enhance them, but that is post-refactor. | 17:28 |
| vjay | the stats itself dont make much sense for me | 17:29 |
| xgerman | so the numbers in 1.0 are broken - so I wouldn't get too hung up if there is a disconnect | 17:29 |
| vjay | i would expect a different kind of stats for VIP/loadbalancer | 17:29 |
| vjay | and different one for listeners | 17:29 |
| vjay | i would like to see connection stats in listener | 17:30 |
| vjay | not in LB. | 17:30 |
| vjay | LB==loadbalancer | 17:30 |
| xgerman | yeah, that sounds useful | 17:31 |
| xgerman | but we also need the roll up to see what the IP generates | 17:31 |
| xgerman | (or box for that matter) | 17:31 |
| vjay | it is really usecase based | 17:31 |
| vjay | i dont see the use for rolling up now | 17:32 |
| xgerman | we like to bill per load balancer | 17:32 |
| vjay | cant that be done by bytes transmitted? | 17:32 |
| vjay | and received? | 17:32 |
| vjay | ok i see it | 17:33 |
| vjay | so all loadbalancer's stats are summed to bill right? | 17:34 |
| xgerman | yes, that's the plan | 17:34 |
| vjay | Will there be a problem to sum all listener stats and bill? | 17:35 |
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| xgerman | let's say our preference is to collate in LBaaS and not ceilometer | 17:36 |
| vjay | ok | 17:37 |
| xgerman | but we can take it to the mailing list and see what others think | 17:37 |
| vjay | sure | 17:37 |
| dougwig | the plan for kilo is to add stats() calls to every object. you can pick at what level you pull them. | 17:39 |
| xgerman | don | 17:39 |
| xgerman | 't forget the push proposal for ceilometer | 17:39 |
| xgerman | so you can pick but some (like lbs) might push | 17:40 |
| dougwig | i haven't, but that relies on an agent or octavia. | 17:40 |
| xgerman | yep | 17:40 |
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| sbalukoff | Oh yes-- the v0.5 component design document is out. (openstackgerrit bot announced it in channel here last night.) | 17:51 |
| rm_work | sbalukoff: nice, i'll get to reading that | 17:54 |
| sbalukoff | It's pretty similar to the v1.0 design, except everything that touches the Intermediate Message Bus has been collapsed down to just a 'controller' | 17:55 |
| rm_work | we weren't going to have *any* HA really until 1.0 right? | 17:56 |
| rm_work | and even then, minimal? | 17:56 |
| rm_work | or was HA/scale not till 2.0? | 17:57 |
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| dougwig | define HA? HA with VMs is kind of like building a castle with a permanently open gate. | 18:13 |
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| rm_work | sbalukoff: reviewed... | 18:18 |
| rm_work | I had some questions | 18:18 |
| sbalukoff | rm_work: 0.5 will have no HA at the controller level built into the design. This should still be achievable through external means (eg. set up two machines and run your own scripts to start/stop controller services on fail-over) | 18:19 |
| sbalukoff | v0.5 does have HA at the service delivery level. | 18:19 |
| sbalukoff | v1.0 has HA features built into the design. | 18:19 |
| rm_work | ah ok i was thinking at the LB level | 18:19 |
| rm_work | so yes, it does still | 18:19 |
| sbalukoff | Yep. | 18:19 |
| sbalukoff | We can't use it at all without HA. :) | 18:20 |
| rm_work | Standby pool // Active/Standy | 18:20 |
| sbalukoff | Yep! | 18:20 |
| rm_work | anywho, see my comments on review | 18:20 |
| sbalukoff | Sounds good. | 18:20 |
| sbalukoff | I also just responded to Susanne's comments. | 18:20 |
| sbalukoff | I'll take a look at yours. :) | 18:21 |
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| sbalukoff | rm_work: Ok, I responded to your comments. :) | 18:31 |
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| rm_work | k | 18:36 |
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| openstackgerrit | Stephen Balukoff proposed a change to stackforge/octavia: Octavia v0.5 component design https://review.openstack.org/113458 | 19:25 |
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| sbalukoff | rm_work and sballe: There are a couple significant changes in the above new revision of that patch, specifically around the operator API. :) | 19:26 |
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| rm_work | kk | 20:20 |
| rm_work | sbalukoff / dougwig / xgerman: could you remind me why we were allowing for colocation / apolocation hints? what is the point of apolocation exactly? (this may be setup for a followup question) | 20:21 |
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| xgerman | rm_work the colocation/apolocation thing is not that relevant for us since we can't control the rack things end up -- the only use would be to schedule things in different availability zones | 22:14 |
| rm_work | ok yeah | 22:14 |
| rm_work | so if we only have one AZ per DC, then... for instance, Rackspace wouldn't even bother to expose those features | 22:14 |
| rm_work | that is what I was thinking | 22:14 |
| rm_work | because we don't really have control of nova's scheduler | 22:15 |
| xgerman | yep - I think Bluebox can control the Rack they end up in | 22:15 |
| rm_work | and with the setup we're thinking of using, it won't even matter where they are | 22:15 |
| rm_work | like... if that CAB goes down, it's probably because the DC went down <_< | 22:15 |
| xgerman | well, in any network if you could schedule your backend nodes and the lb on the same CPU then you would have more spped | 22:16 |
| rm_work | yeah but our users have no visibility to that :P | 22:16 |
| xgerman | neither to ours | 22:17 |
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| rm_work | sbalukoff: see PM | 22:40 |
| xgerman | rm_work: Did you figure out what the USER APIU HANDLER is in the .5 spec. Wouldn't the user talk through Neutron LBaaS with Octavia? | 22:59 |
| rm_work | well | 23:03 |
| rm_work | unless Octavia does have its own API eventually (which it should) | 23:03 |
| rm_work | the section is probably there for future specs | 23:03 |
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| rm_work | xgerman: ^^ | 23:04 |
| xgerman | yep, future specs | 23:04 |
| xgerman | or as a life insurance if lbaas v2.0 never makes it | 23:04 |
| rm_work | heh yeah | 23:04 |
| rm_work | that's actually a good call | 23:04 |
| rm_work | with the current clusterf&$% | 23:04 |
| rm_work | we may need to accelerate our spinoff plans | 23:05 |
| rm_work | lol | 23:05 |
| xgerman | likely -- | 23:05 |
| xgerman | rm_work, sbalukoff: Also johnsonm and I think that simplifying by just putting everything in one daemon will make it difficult to split tasks | 23:23 |
| xgerman | between people (I am not very fond of watching the rebasing hell brandon lives in) | 23:24 |
| sbalukoff | xgerman: There's no reason we couldn't make the controller multiple daemons, really... but doing so at this point is less important than getting its external interfaces correct. | 23:24 |
| sbalukoff | (Interfaces to Neutron, Neutron LBaaS and Octavia VMs) | 23:24 |
| xgerman | understood. I just don't want to close the door on that before we have a better idea how to split work | 23:25 |
| sbalukoff | Yep! | 23:25 |
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| sbalukoff | I'm actually in favor of making the controller several daemons, but it does add extra complexity to the project up front... 0.5 is sort of a proof of concept of "does this model using Octavia VMs work?" | 23:26 |
| sbalukoff | It's not the scalable version we all need. | 23:26 |
| sbalukoff | xgerman: In any case, please add those comments in gerrit, too-- so they're perserved (sort of) for posterity? | 23:27 |
| xgerman | of course :-) | 23:27 |
| xgerman | yeah, I also like the proof of concept idea but I found it easier to split work when everybody gets their own component | 23:28 |
| sbalukoff | Agreed. | 23:29 |
| sbalukoff | There are a several ways to skin this cat. | 23:29 |
| sbalukoff | The design is meant to be "simple enough" but if enough of y'all agree that we should just plan on having several daemons that work in tandem on the same box (later to become separate controllers on separate boxes), I'm happy to alter the design, eh. | 23:29 |
| sbalukoff | oh, on the apolocation / colocation stuff: This is usually stuff driven by business requirements, sometimes having to do with security. | 23:31 |
| sbalukoff | For example, a customer may need to guarantee that loadbalancer 1 and loadbalancer 2 are never served from the same physical hardware. | 23:31 |
| sbalukoff | Shoudln't matter in a cloud... but then, these kinds of requirements usually come from people who aren't used to the cloud paradigm. | 23:32 |
| sbalukoff | There's also performance reasons a customer might want this. | 23:32 |
| sbalukoff | The cloud is supposed to be immune to bad neighbor problems. But as operators, we know this often isn't the case. | 23:32 |
| sbalukoff | And customers figure that out, too. | 23:32 |
| sbalukoff | So... there's a need for colocation / apolocation logic. | 23:33 |
| sbalukoff | And the ability to colocate several loadbalancers on the same Octavia VM is an operator optimization that some might want to use to consume fewer resources in large public clouds. | 23:34 |
| sbalukoff | (And also on private clouds) | 23:34 |
| sbalukoff | We occasionally get customers who want all their dev environments to be functionally equivalent to production, but not necessarily performance-equivalent. | 23:34 |
| sbalukoff | And depending on how they're billed, there might be an incentive for them to colocate all their dev loadbalancers on the same VM. | 23:35 |
| sbalukoff | Again, these are requirements that come down the pipe from customers... and since they can be implemented without too much trouble on our part, I don't see a major reason not to allow it. | 23:36 |
| sbalukoff | (Well, partially from customers, partly from our management and product people.) | 23:36 |
| dougwig | presumably we'll use a framework that abstracts the controllers enough that splitting it later or sooner is trivial? (I haven't used pecan, but if split or not split is a gate, that sounds like duplicated glue/bugs.) | 23:36 |
| sbalukoff | dougwig: That's what I'd recommend. | 23:37 |
| dougwig | sbalukoff: hey, some people like reinventing wheels. they're never round, but hey. | 23:38 |
| sbalukoff | Mmm.... delicious repetition. | 23:39 |
| rm_work | hmm ok, the design we're considering doesn't really make any sense at all for apo/co-location, for ANY of the reasons you listed (including incentive to co-locate to save costs), but I guess we'll talk about it tomorrow at the meeting | 23:42 |
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| xgerman | same here -- no colocation requirement | 23:57 |
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