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| Zara | morning, storyboard! | 09:14 |
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| SotK | good morning! | 09:47 |
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| Zara | yay, workaround merged for 'change-restored' things in gerrit. tasks should now update from 'todo' to 'review' when an abandoned change citing their task id is restored | 10:13 |
| SotK | hooray! | 10:13 |
| persia | NIce! | 10:17 |
| persia | On a related note: is now a good time for the bikeshed about review link UI, or do we want to wait until after one can add-to-worklist from the story detail page? | 10:17 |
| Zara | (this is still all for dev, patch for prod is here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/347486/ ) | 10:18 |
| Zara | I want to get some reviewing done now, but we have the meeting later | 10:18 |
| Zara | if people want a bikeshed | 10:18 |
| persia | Well, asking differently, is today a good day, or this week a good week? | 10:19 |
| Zara | ah, okay, I'd rather bikeshed about it after we have some gerrit integration in production, so that it isn't perceived as a blocker (since I'd rather some with links in a not-ideal place then none and no links) | 10:20 |
| Zara | then it's also easier to point people at the current behaviour | 10:20 |
| Zara | so my own preference is for another week. I can't speak for everyone. | 10:21 |
| Zara | so we could have a bikeshed about when to bikeshed | 10:21 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack-infra/python-storyboardclient: Add system info https://review.openstack.org/347405 | 10:22 |
| Zara | \o/ | 10:22 |
| Zara | that was so sad, when I started looking at that I thought it was going to be the sha1 | 10:22 |
| Zara | but it's not ;_; | 10:22 |
| Zara | still, completeness | 10:23 |
| SotK | yeah, I want to make it the sha1 at some point | 10:23 |
| Zara | part of the reason I bothered with it at all was I figured it might be changed to the sha1 at some point :) | 10:23 |
| Zara | so yay | 10:24 |
| SotK | on an unrelated note, restricted branches seem to be related to the reimplementation of LP's bug types thing (private vulnerability, private, public vulnerability, public) | 10:28 |
| Zara | aha | 10:29 |
| Zara | yeah, that's just there because it was in the db, I agree it should probably come out of the api | 10:29 |
| persia | Unless there is some clear use case to support it. | 10:29 |
| Zara | ('there'=in the python client) | 10:29 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack-infra/python-storyboardclient: Add support for private stories https://review.openstack.org/347448 | 10:30 |
| SotK | it may point to a need for branch-related permissions, but I suspect we'd need to dig deeper to know for sure | 10:30 |
| persia | What would branch-related permissions mean in terms of Storyboard? | 10:31 |
| persia | My understanding was that branches were part of a for-the-future feature to support having tasks against specific branches of a project. | 10:31 |
| persia | Would this mean some ACL for being able to create/manage such tasks? | 10:31 |
| * SotK has no idea | 10:32 | |
| Zara | I think branches are implemented in the api (at any rate, you can associate a task with a branch, and I think change it, though I'd have to check my notes on that) | 10:32 |
| Zara | just not in the ui | 10:32 |
| persia | Zara: That matches my understanding. | 10:32 |
| * SotK isn't sure he sees any value in such an ACL at the moment | 10:33 | |
| * persia either | 10:33 | |
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| Zara | beyond that, no idea, someone asked about branches and milestones so I made sure the python client could talk to the the api there | 10:33 |
| Zara | so I think it's on whomever cares to give guidance on any implementation for it | 10:33 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Comment some settings in worklist resource https://review.openstack.org/342290 | 10:39 |
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| Zara | I was asked elsewhere about my workflow for testing changes, so I did a short walkthrough, using a webclient patch as an example. there might be better approaches so figured I'd share it here in case anyone has anything interesting to add: http://paste.openstack.org/show/553547/ | 11:06 |
| Zara | or if I've forgotten something | 11:07 |
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| SotK | I'd replace the first command with `git review -d $id_in_gerrit_url` | 11:10 |
| Zara | ah, does that automatically go to the latest patch? my workflow can catch me out when I accidentally get a non-current patch | 11:13 |
| persia | I'm a bit uncomfortable with the interactive rebase: I would think a simple `git rebase` would be better, as if it needs more than that, it's unreliable. For that matter, even just rebasing may introduce oddities that aren't actually what is under review. | 11:14 |
| Zara | I use interactive so I can see if I'm not where I thought I was, it quickly makes it clear that I'm on the wrong branch or similar. | 11:14 |
| Zara | so I only use it to see what's going on, and if it shows unexpected commits or 'noop', something has gone wrong and I can stop at that point | 11:16 |
| persia | Ah. That makes sense. | 11:16 |
| Zara | yeah, and if you don't rebase against master and master has changed in the interim, you catch bugs that have been fixed and waste time thinking the patch caused them. | 11:17 |
| Zara | so I like to do it just in case. | 11:18 |
| persia | My fear would be the opposite: blaming the patch for issues that only became exposed because of the rebase, but I can see the argument that these don't matter, because the patch ultimately has to land on top of master anyway. | 11:18 |
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| Zara | yeah, that's my reasoning! :D | 11:19 |
| Zara | the workflow will probably depend a lot on how the patches are sent. sotk groups things nicely so they're very easy to test; other commits are only included when a patch depends on those, etc. | 11:21 |
| Zara | I'm not sure how well it'd hold up outside of the sleepy village of storyboard | 11:22 |
| Zara | so I tend to use some combination of that with 'look at the code to see what's likely to be affected and if anything leaps out as odd' | 11:23 |
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| * Zara finds https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/storyboard/commit/?id=a94596e191c716fc95e7b2a12035dd163190c2e3 which might help explain the old planned implementation for restricted things. I thought story_types was just for is_bug or not, oops | 11:39 | |
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| Zara | so actually, it's 'bug', 'feature', 'private_vulnerability' and 'public vulnerability'. | 11:41 |
| persia | Ah, so yes, this was implemented differently after all, so the incomplete obsolete implementation should be removed. | 11:42 |
| Zara | I don't think the last two are necessary, am undecided about the first two (since some folks find the distinction useful, and I could see how it might be handy for template things. I don't.) | 11:42 |
| persia | I have never found a useful difference in the definition of "feature" vs. "bug" in the absence of a formally approved requirements document, workflows involving which I no longer see practiced often. | 11:44 |
| Zara | yeah, afaict people only care about the bug/feature-request distinction for 'have we already paid you for this?' reasons, and deciding that is the role of the requirements doc. they're both just 'things to work on' for anyone else | 11:45 |
| persia | LP's public vs. private vulnerability feature is an artefact of the history of LP, the major project therein, and the hosting organisation, in my view. | 11:45 |
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| Zara | I can see an argument where a different team might be allocated bugs to the team allocated features, so they'd want to autogenerate a worklist each or something, but that doesn't make much sense | 11:46 |
| persia | To my way of thinking, private boards and worklists are a better forum for arguing over whether someone has already been paid, especially in an open context. | 11:47 |
| Zara | story descriptions could potentially function as requirements docs but you'd want better tracking of history, and so far 0.000000% of users have requested they work like that. | 11:48 |
| persia | While I've seen different teams assigned for "bugs" and "features", this tends to involve the team handling "bugs" hating the team handling "features", and the developers fixing "bugs" re-implementing all sorts of things in inconsistent ways, leading to technical debt in master and "merge pain". | 11:48 |
| persia | There are more stages to go along the memetic path to the tooling involved, but I imagine requirements being documented in something very much like story descriptions, however without validation at the story level, this becomes hard to assert. | 11:49 |
| persia | With validation, the terms of implementation contract (whether for-pay, or just common expectation) involve ensuring that a given requirement remains valid for the life of that requirement, which can be tracked effectively. | 11:50 |
| Zara | right, I feel like it makes a lot more sense for a team to focus on one area at a time and work on that together, fixing things and implementing features in roughly the same area of code at the same time, so they can communicate. | 11:50 |
| Zara | I assume the only reason that doesn't happen is when a bunch of companies have different focuses | 11:50 |
| persia | At that point, "bug" means "this validation criterion is no longer satisfied", but the developers ought be able to determine whether that will happen before landing a patch, allowing that never to be true in master. | 11:51 |
| Zara | but then people aren't deciding what to work on based on what has a 'bug' tag or 'feature' tag | 11:51 |
| Zara | (that relates to my earlier comment, sorry, not an argument with yours) | 11:51 |
| persia | different organisations have different (and changing) foci, whether that applies at a team level or a company level (where "team" also includes some self-organised groups that are part of no specific company). Even within that, individual developers have changing focus and changing incentives (personal interest is the usual excuse, but changing jobs, etc. can be as strong an argument to work on something else as "I got bored"). | 11:52 |
| persia | No worries: I'm not perceiving any of the above to represent opposing points of view, just subtly different ones. The value of the discussion is mostly about the logs, and verifying the lack of opposition :) | 11:53 |
| Zara | :) | 11:54 |
| SotK | Zara: git review -d does indeed get the latest version | 12:03 |
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| Zara | matthewbodkin: I can't remember if I linked you the logs a while ago, if not, #storyboard is logged here, so you can still find past conversations if your irc connection dies or whatever: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23storyboard/ | 12:16 |
| matthewbodkin | Okay thanks | 12:18 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack-infra/storyboard: Add example commands for the Branches api https://review.openstack.org/338396 | 12:27 |
| Zara | reminder that the storyboard meeting is at 15:00 UTC | 12:41 |
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| openstackgerrit | Matthew Bodkin proposed openstack-infra/storyboard: Making docs easier to understand https://review.openstack.org/353517 | 14:09 |
| Zara | ooh | 14:11 |
| Zara | looks good at a glance, will check in more detail shortly. I think lines should be wrapped at 80 characters, not sure if it's less than that. | 14:13 |
| matthewbodkin | Hmm ye I think you're right | 14:15 |
| pedroalvarez | I've used this reStructuredText renderer in the past, may be useful for anyone editing those docs: http://rst.ninjs.org/ | 14:20 |
| Zara | ooh, nice | 14:20 |
| Zara | (I was using the tox -edocs + simple httpserver trick, but that doesn't work for me out of the office.) | 14:20 |
| pedroalvarez | some warnings in the format with those changes: http://rst.ninjs.org/?n=c97a0751bd6840e39ec9a31c3b697937&theme=basic | 14:21 |
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| Zara | meeting in 8 minutes | 14:52 |
| Zara | I haven't got to updating hte agenda yet, if anyone else has a moment, otherwise I'll get to it in 3 minutes | 14:52 |
| * Zara -> #openstack-meeting | 15:00 | |
| * pedroalvarez cant login in storyboard | 15:20 | |
| pedroalvarez | nor in gerrit | 15:20 |
| Zara | huh | 15:21 |
| SotK | hm, looks like ubuntu one has given up the ghost again | 15:21 |
| SotK | ubuntu one/launchpad login/whatever | 15:22 |
| Zara | oh no, sotk, you're turning into me | 15:23 |
| SotK | what an awful fate :P | 15:23 |
| Zara | +1 | 15:25 |
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| Zara | ivyyy: how's it going in the wonderful world of OpenStack? | 16:01 |
| zaro | Zara: workaround fix for merge landed, maybe you can try it out now? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/353046/ | 16:04 |
| Zara | sure, thanks | 16:06 |
| Zara | I thought I did earlier but maybe I didn't, actually | 16:06 |
| Zara | zaro: yep, works fine! :) | 16:08 |
| Zara | (tested task 58 here https://storyboard-dev.openstack.org/#!/story/34) | 16:09 |
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| zaro | coolio. think it might be ready for prime time. | 16:28 |
| Zara | =D | 16:30 |
| Zara | SO EXCITED | 16:30 |
| Zara | (my life is sad.) | 16:30 |
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| Zara | will update boards search patch soonish... | 17:09 |
| Zara | (so that search results resemble those templated on the dashboard. though I'll include (truncated) board descriptions, since we include those for stories when searched) | 17:13 |
| Zara | hm, not sure about them with descriptions; they look a bit confusing. will take them out for now | 17:24 |
| ivyyy | Zara: hiya! it's been CRAZY at work this week so i'm still scrabbling to catch up, but tomorrow i should be on top of it and be able to catch up on some meeting notes and try out storyboard" | 17:26 |
| ivyyy | Zara: thanks for checking in though! | 17:26 |
| Zara | ivyyy: heh, np, I just ask around how people are doing when I'm procrastinating, in case anyone leads a more interesting life than I do and I can hear a good story. | 17:27 |
| Zara | hope work gets less hectic soon! :) | 17:29 |
| openstackgerrit | Zara proposed openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Search for boards and worklists https://review.openstack.org/341562 | 17:35 |
| Zara | that should be more consistent | 17:37 |
| Zara | I'm heading off now; 'night, all! | 17:39 |
| ivyyy | Zara: night!! | 17:40 |
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