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| betherly | hi hi! how was everyones day yesterday? | 10:23 |
|---|---|---|
| betherly | SotK: hope you are feeling better | 10:24 |
| * betherly sends hugs | 10:24 | |
| SotK | hi betherly! | 10:25 |
| * SotK is feeling mostly better thanks | 10:25 | |
| SotK | just need to stop coughing now... | 10:25 |
| Zara | hi, betherly! :) yesterday was... okay. I was sleepy and had fewer people to rant to. :P | 10:26 |
| betherly | glad youre feeling better but ye, hope the cough shifts sooooon | 10:26 |
| Zara | how was your holiday? | 10:26 |
| betherly | lol Zara :D aww though :( | 10:27 |
| betherly | ye really good! went to the Cheltenham races - ladies day woooooot | 10:27 |
| betherly | between the bf and me we managed to bet on a winner in every race so definitely beat the odds :D | 10:28 |
| Zara | :D | 10:29 |
| Zara | prolly a better longterm financial plan than working on storyboard tbf | 10:29 |
| Zara | glad you had fun (sorry, was busy for a bit) :) | 10:40 |
| Zara | betherly: how's the tutorial going? maybe that's a bit broad... would be good to make a story for it so I know what the steps are and I can help with anything if I need to. even if there's just one task in the story and it says 'find out what the tasks even are' :P | 11:01 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Edit task notes from board https://review.openstack.org/291755 | 11:02 |
| betherly | a story on storyboard? cool good idea i will do that and send you a link. probably today :) | 11:03 |
| Zara | :D | 11:06 |
| Zara | cool, thanks | 11:06 |
| Zara | yaaaaaaay, task notes board patch merged, thanks SotK! | 11:07 |
| Zara | betherly: yeah, that's also a good way to test the storyboard ui actually | 11:08 |
| betherly | Zara: ye thats what i was thinking :) | 11:08 |
| Zara | \o/ | 11:08 |
| Zara | which reminds me of the patch I said I was gonna rework this morning | 11:08 |
| Zara | okay, interpolation seems to be necessary for the task-status/priority-bugfix patch (for the existing tasks, anyway), idk why but it breaks without it | 11:37 |
| Zara | I'll look at markdown for task_notes; I've held off because I didn't include a preview in the story view, and they're editable immediately on clicking the button, which means a logged-in user can only see the markdown from the board view | 11:38 |
| * persia gets even more worried. | 11:39 | |
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| persia | Essentially, if these are easily editable from a card, why will anyone bother dealing with the context of a story, or engaging in the discussion there? | 11:40 |
| Zara | because a) story description comes up on the card before task notes, and b) tasks are specific things to do, and stories are the overall goals/requirements. so on a task like 'patch x', it makes sense with a comment to link to the review (I'm only interested in markdown for task notes inasmuch as it lets people link in nice <a> tags and display pictures for wip). if you someone disputes the value of the t | 11:44 |
| Zara | ask itself, discuss in story comments. I also feel that if people don't comment on the story itself, it may be because that discussion isn't useful to a lot of people. | 11:44 |
| Zara | 'makes sense with a comment to?' 'makes sense to note a' | 11:45 |
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| Zara | (for my own part, most important discussion of requirements etc happens on irc, and story comments are more a way of writing that up to a wider audience and giving people some time to give feedback on things. so I don't really see story comments as a discussion forum, more a place to point out things that should be discussed) | 11:48 |
| Zara | much like mailing lists; I'm skeptical of how much they influence what actually gets done in any project with an irc (or etherpad)-heavy workflow. | 11:50 |
| persia | Yeah. Noninteractive communication often fails to engage :) | 11:51 |
| persia | I just worry that people may abuse things, but what I should do is go write the docs I signed up to write a couple cycles ago. | 11:52 |
| Zara | yeah, I'm also wary of people completely misusing notes to write requirements, etc. but then, if they do, it might be a sign that we need to make task notes automatically post in the story description under 'notes' headings, or something like that, I'm not sure. | 11:54 |
| Zara | if everyone's using it that way, it suggests it might be more useful that way | 11:55 |
| persia | I don't agree with your logic, but I do agree that we have received very little information about how people want to use things, complicating the discussion. | 11:56 |
| Zara | (the alternative is that people use it that way because they're confused about it, but I think removing the functionality then just means people don't use storyboard because it doesn't do notes nicely, rather than start sensibly separating their requirements from their work) | 11:56 |
| persia | Most of the information I've seen seems to be by reference to other tools, rather than based on what information people want to either see or enter where. | 11:57 |
| * SotK agrees that removing functionality because people might use it wrong is a bad idea | 11:59 | |
| Zara | yeah, also I can't talk numbers; anecdotally, in practice I use storyboard more than most, have sorely missed task notes for pretty much the whole time I've been working on the project. | 11:59 |
| SotK | if people use it for discussion, we should tell those people to stop being wrong | 12:00 |
| persia | On the logic of "if people use it that way, it must be the right way to use it": I find that many folk conflate things to more easily fit in their head, so if a given tool has a cool and/or useful feature, it becomes easy to try to do everything there. | 12:00 |
| Zara | not 'it must be the right way to use it', 'it might be the more useful way'; ease of use is part of usefulness imo | 12:01 |
| persia | Oh, yeah, despite my misgivings, that StoryBoard can't usefully link to either A) the patch review or B) any related bug in a non-Storyboard managed project makes it exceedingly painful. | 12:01 |
| Zara | :D yeah, well, it can now, just not formatted nicely. | 12:02 |
| persia | Zara: I'm not arguing against ease of use, only against using popularity as justification: many things become popular due to conceptual conflation, memetic linking, and ignorance: with edification comes clarity, and often reactionary unpopularity. | 12:02 |
| persia | To take a currently vilified example, cigarette smoking reduces high blood pressure: Doctors recommended it for this for years, and the ubiquity reduced research into safer nicotinamide-analogue treatments. Now smoking is known to be bad for lots of other reasons, so nobody does it, and there still isn't much research into using nicotinamide analogues to reduce blood pressure (despite nicotinamide causing most humans less irritation than niacin | 12:05 |
| persia | and not causing cancer or anything). | 12:05 |
| persia | To be clear, I'm not trying to advocate any particular medical treatment or research, but rather sharing a narrative that demonstrates the power of crowd opinion and the poor correlation to "correct" or "useful". | 12:06 |
| Zara | right, but if you want to change users' views, it's a battle, and I think you have to zero in on just one thing at a time. In storyboard's case, for most users, stories are a new thing and they're used to trackers which just go straight from project to task, with requirements dumped in a corner as an afterthought. | 12:07 |
| Zara | so your battle is getting people to see how a 'story' is a useful way to group things when other task-trackers don't do it this way | 12:07 |
| persia | At least most of the communities using Storyboard so far have an appreciation of the value of separating patch tracking from story/issue/bug/feature/etc. tracking. | 12:08 |
| persia | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-gtk-module/+bug/1556277 is a counterexample of the sort of thing that I hope never to see in any Storyboard instance. | 12:09 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1556277 in unity-gtk-module (Ubuntu) "When using unity, the diplomacy and cities menus are not shown for freeciv-gtk3" [Medium,Fix released] | 12:09 |
| Zara | I'm not sure which bit; there's a lot of stuff on that page | 12:17 |
| persia | The existence of that as a "bug", when it is just a patch and someone +2ing it (CI in Ubuntu happens outside that interface). | 12:20 |
| persia | Precisely how to do requirements capture, requirements validation, and regression identification is a more complicated thing. | 12:22 |
| persia | Maybe this is Storyboard, or maybe the distinction between "task" and "requirment" is so semantically strong that these need to be disaggregated in the future. | 12:22 |
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| Zara | I think that's a different problem to do with classing things as 'bugs', rather than just keeping it vague and letting users tag as appropriate (tangent, but imo whether or not 'bug' is even a useful tag depends more on commercial factors than anything; for a user the corresponding tag is: 'annoying') | 13:07 |
| Zara | on a different subject, did we ever have a timeline event for changing the project of a task? | 13:07 |
| Zara | just changed one now, defaulted to 'task details updated', wondered if it was always that | 13:08 |
| persia | I have only begun to appreciate that the event timeline is anything other than an annoying was to put filler between comments, causing me to think we do not (or at least an uninformative template), but I may be biased. | 13:13 |
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| Zara | hm, I wonder how I'd get the project to display | 13:34 |
| Zara | if not specific_change: | 13:35 |
| Zara | events_api.task_details_changed_event( | 13:35 |
| Zara | story_id=original_task.story_id, | 13:35 |
| Zara | task_id=original_task.id, | 13:35 |
| Zara | task_title=original_task.title, | 13:35 |
| Zara | author_id=author_id) | 13:35 |
| Zara | ^ tasks.py | 13:35 |
| Zara | so there's not a project field; I tried a hacky task_id.project_id in the template, but unsurprisingly, sb was having none of it. | 13:35 |
| persia | Maybe task.project_id ? | 13:38 |
| persia | Oh, never mind. We have original_task.project_id, but that's the obsolete one. | 13:39 |
| Zara | I don't know a quick way to access it and I don't really want to write a controller or something at this point (but suspect that's the actual answer) | 13:51 |
| Zara | btw, early heads up, I think I'm getting ill | 13:51 |
| Zara | (headache, strange throat where something is wrong but I can't quite work out what) if it's what SotK had, could be prudent to plan for me being off at least some of next week. also means he's somehow infected me via irc. | 13:53 |
| SotK | oh no! :( | 14:04 |
| SotK | (on the event timeline thing, making the new project related to the event display is probably not possible for already-existing events) | 14:06 |
| Zara | tbf, I often get the beginning of a cold that then goes nowhere; I'm hoping it's that. | 14:07 |
| Zara | yeah | 14:07 |
| Zara | (if you have transmitted a cold etc via irc, then that's pretty cool but don't do it again.) | 14:08 |
| Zara | with great power comes great responsibility etc etc etc | 14:09 |
| * SotK apologises if he has managed to invent such transmission | 14:11 | |
| Zara | it wasn't in the requirements. | 14:13 |
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| Zara | betherly: ooh, I was literally just about to ask how you were getting on with making the story, but then I saw it on my dashboard | 14:34 |
| betherly | hehe :) | 14:34 |
| betherly | really interesting doing it for the first time | 14:34 |
| betherly | got some ideas to make it a bit more intuitive is there currently a story for adding ideas for making it more ux friendly? | 14:35 |
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| Zara | there's a vague one for 'various ui issues', but sometimes I feel like that could apply to most things in the webclient project | 14:36 |
| Zara | so I'd suggest separating it into a 'make it easier to create a new story' story, and so on | 14:37 |
| Zara | (you might even want different stories for types of stories, so 'make it easier to create a new story for a feature request', 'make it easier to create a new story for a bug report', etc) | 14:38 |
| Zara | (people will argue that those shouldn't be story categories, but it's how people currently use it) | 14:38 |
| betherly | ok awesome thanks :) | 14:39 |
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| Zara | something I've wondered before-- is there a way of seeing repo size (source and estimated compiled) on github? | 15:24 |
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| persia | If we have a story for making authorship more intuitive, I would prefer avoiding suggesting a given-when-then structure, as I imagine there being multiple such scenarios that might apply to a given story. | 15:25 |
| persia | Zara: I use ohloh to get summary statistics on github projects. It may or may not work for you. | 15:26 |
| Zara | yeah, that has similar stuff to github, but nothing on size (it talks about LOC, but not MB etc) . it's not important right now, just something that'salways bothered me and I remembered it botheredme. | 15:28 |
| Zara | 15:24 <persia> ░░░░░░░░░░░░▄▐░░░░░░ | 15:33 |
| Zara | 15:24 <persia> ░░░░░░▄▄▄░░▄██▄░░░░░ | 15:33 |
| Zara | 15:24 <persia> ░░░░░▐▀█▀▌░░░░▀█▄░░░ | 15:33 |
| Zara | 15:24 <persia> ░░░░░▐█▄█▌░░░░░░▀█▄░ | 15:33 |
| Zara | 15:24 <persia> ░░░░░░▀▄▀░░░▄▄▄▄▄▀▀░ | 15:33 |
| Zara | 15:24 <persia> ░░░░▄▄▄██▀▀▀▀░░░░░░░ | 15:33 |
| Zara | 15:24 <persia> ░░░█▀▄▄▄█░▀▀░░░░░░░░ | 15:33 |
| Zara | 15:24 <persia> ░░░▌░▄▄▄▐▌▀▀▀░░░░░░░ | 15:33 |
| Zara | 15:24 <persia> ▄░▐░░░▄▄░█░▀▀░░░░░░░ U HAVE BEEN SPOOKED BY THE | 15:33 |
| Zara | 15:24 <persia> ▀█▌░░░▄░▀█▀░▀░░░░░░░ | 15:33 |
| Zara | 15:24 <persia> ░░░░░░░▄▄▐▌▄▄░░░░░░░ | 15:34 |
| Zara | 15:24 <persia> ░░░░░░░▀███▀█░▄░░░░░ | 15:34 |
| Zara | 15:24 <persia> ░░░░░░▐▌▀▄▀▄▀▐▄░░░░░ SPOOKY SKILENTON | 15:34 |
| Zara | 15:24 <persia> ░░░░░▐▀░░░░░░▐▌░░░░░ | 15:34 |
| Zara | 15:24 <persia> ░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░█░░░░ | 15:34 |
| Zara | 15:24 <persia> ░░░░░▐▌░░░░░░░░░█░░░ | 15:34 |
| Zara | 15:24 <persia> ░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░▐▌░░ SEND THIS TO 4 PPL OR SKELINTONS WILL EAT YOU | 15:34 |
| Zara | so confused | 15:34 |
| pedroalvarez | hahah | 15:34 |
| fay_ | ? | 15:35 |
| pedroalvarez | I don't think that skilenton has ever eaten anyone.. | 15:36 |
| * persia so did not post that | 15:46 | |
| Zara | hm, how strange... | 15:47 |
| Zara | mysterious impostors aside... | 16:20 |
| Zara | betherly: I have some patches for improving the 'create a new story' hanging around in review at various stages of completion; may or may not be useful to you | 16:21 |
| Zara | this is something I started but haven't got round to working on for a while https://review.openstack.org/#/c/264193/ | 16:21 |
| Zara | and this fixes an issue that you might have encountered: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/293577/ | 16:22 |
| Zara | (SotK has -1'd, but I tried changing it to his suggested approach, and things broke) | 16:23 |
| Zara | so there might be reworking still to do, but probably not stuff in comments so far (in exactly that form, anyway). | 16:23 |
| Zara | so that's the long way of saying that that one is worth reviewing for problems xD | 16:24 |
| Zara | I shoulda mentioned these earlier; meant to; forgot | 16:24 |
| betherly | Zara: ah thanks for these! good to know :D | 16:26 |
| krotscheck | Are y'all running into issues with firefox dying in the gate? | 16:34 |
| Zara | hm, I haven't actually pushed anything today yet | 16:36 |
| krotscheck | ok | 16:37 |
| Zara | something was merged at about midday, and that seems to have gone fine | 16:37 |
| krotscheck | Hrm. | 16:37 |
| krotscheck | Alright. | 16:37 |
| Zara | (not appeared yet but jenkins reported it merged, and it generally takes a while to build new changes) | 16:38 |
| Zara | I'm guessing something's going weird elsewhere? | 16:38 |
| krotscheck | Zara: GOtcha. I'll recheck a previously-merged patch to see if something went bellyup | 16:38 |
| krotscheck | I mean a previously passing patch | 16:38 |
| Zara | okay, I should check in case firefox is dying but is just not making our checks fail. | 16:39 |
| Zara | the only ominous sounding thing in the webclient logs is: | 16:44 |
| Zara | 2016-03-17 10:57:01.751 | Setting up firefox (45.0+build2-0ubuntu0.14.04.1) ... | 16:44 |
| Zara | 2016-03-17 10:57:01.783 | update-alternatives: using /usr/bin/firefox to provide /usr/bin/gnome-www-browser (gnome-www-browser) in auto mode | 16:44 |
| Zara | 2016-03-17 10:57:01.788 | update-alternatives: using /usr/bin/firefox to provide /usr/bin/x-www-browser (x-www-browser) in auto mode | 16:44 |
| Zara | 2016-03-17 10:57:01.808 | Please restart all running instances of firefox, or you will experience problems. | 16:44 |
| Zara | which seems like a different issue | 16:44 |
| krotscheck | Yeah, it looks like firefox updated recently. | 16:45 |
| krotscheck | I'm trying to see if just updating the various launcher files will work. | 16:45 |
| Zara | :) | 16:46 |
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| krotscheck | Everything is failing! Yaaaay! | 16:51 |
| Zara | \o/ | 16:53 |
| Zara | tbf that's still gotta win vs me not pushing any code all day | 16:54 |
| krotscheck | Oh. | 16:57 |
| krotscheck | Cute. | 16:57 |
| Zara | ? | 16:58 |
| krotscheck | Know what's awesome when you include a tarball in your dependencies? | 16:58 |
| krotscheck | Click on this: https://bitbucket.org/ariya/phantomjs/downloads/phantomjs-2.1.1-linux-x86_64.tar.bz2" | 16:58 |
| Zara | uh oh | 16:58 |
| Zara | aw, the browser is trying too hard | 16:59 |
| pedroalvarez | i had a "Rate limit for this resource has been exceeded" error | 17:00 |
| pedroalvarez | then it worked | 17:01 |
| Zara | oh, so chrome isn't failing because chrome automatically downloads it, but firefox requests user input? | 17:01 |
| krotscheck | pedroalvarez: Yeah, same here. | 17:03 |
| Zara | ah, huh, it worked in both my browsers | 17:03 |
| * persia touts the advantages of wget and curl for scripted pulls of tarballs | 17:04 | |
| krotscheck | The problem is that only the post-2 versions of phantom match up with chrome and firefox in a sane way | 17:04 |
| krotscheck | And trusty's version is 1.9, so we have to install our own. | 17:04 |
| krotscheck | I'm still not certain why firefox is failing though | 17:04 |
| krotscheck | (since it died while trying to download phantom | 17:04 |
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| Zara | huh, looked at the story about creating new stories | 17:48 |
| Zara | the empty prompts aren't working properly; idk why | 17:48 |
| Zara | (re: 'headings for task fields') | 17:50 |
| Zara | they should all be defaulting to 'click to assign', but only the user is doing that atm | 17:50 |
| Zara | *column for assigning a user | 17:50 |
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| Zara | 'click to assign' isn't very informative, and would be better as 'enter a project', etc | 17:51 |
| Zara | (for non-user fields) | 17:51 |
| Zara | but it's weird that it's not displaying | 17:51 |
| krotscheck | Zara: Which patch landed for you? I'm trying to figure out whether the version updatec. | 17:53 |
| * krotscheck needs logs | 17:53 | |
| Zara | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/291755/ most recent merged | 17:54 |
| Zara | webclient version hasn't yet caught up with it on s.o.o | 17:54 |
| krotscheck | Gotcha | 17:54 |
| krotscheck | Zara: Looks like it's firefox 45.0.0, so that's not the problem. | 17:54 |
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| openstackgerrit | Zara proposed openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Make it easier to find 'add task' button https://review.openstack.org/294221 | 18:20 |
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| Zara | 'night, storyboard | 18:26 |
| Zara | I didn't get much done today, sorry :/ | 18:27 |
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