Thursday, 2015-12-17

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pedroalvarezlooks like the upgrade went ok :)09:19
pedroalvarezI triggered a check (using recheck) to see if zuul was working09:20
pedroalvarezAlso I kind of  missed some patches in storyboard: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-infra/storyboard09:21
pedroalvarezthere are only three09:21
pedroalvarezbut I guess we merged them09:21
persiahttps://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient has the others09:22
pedroalvarezyeah, I wasn't missing those09:23
persiaOh, yeah, the rest merged well, I think.  https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:merged+project:openstack-infra/storyboard seems well-populated.09:25
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SotKI wonder if we should abandon jeblair's 2 really old patches09:51
persiaConsidering that the patch series mentioned in krotscheck's review of one of them is long-since merged, I think that is a safe candidate.09:54
persiaI suspect the other one has also become uninteresting, with the paging API, paging preferences, and paging support in the UI.09:54
persiaBut I don't know enough to be confident.09:55
SotKthat matches my belief too09:55
persiaOh well.  I was hoping you knew enough to be confident about the other one :)09:55
* SotK looks at them again09:56
SotKok, they both seem to be for working around the lack of paging, which is no longer an issue10:00
SotKI say we abandon them :)10:00
persiaYou have the powers :)  They can be unabandoned, if someone is very concerned.10:00
* SotK abandons10:02
persiaLeaving only one patch outstanding.  Excellent.10:03
SotKsadly there are a couple of outstanding webclient patches too10:06
persiaYeah, that side has more.10:07
SotKone of which is the project groups thing, I wonder if we can get a consensus of how that should look today?10:07
persiaDo we have mockups for that?10:08
SotKnope, just the various revisions the patch has been through10:09
ZaraI don't think anyone has said anything about it since my last suggestion, might be wrong?10:33
pedroalvarezno really :/10:34
SotKdoes anyone have opinions on Zara's last suggestion?10:42
ZaraI think it's a great suggestino A+++ (in seriousness would probably help to see a mock or a patch if that's easier)10:45
persiaThis is https://review.openstack.org/253049 ?10:45
Zara('suggestino', hm. 'suggestion'.)10:45
SotKpersia: yes10:45
Zarawoo, new gerrit10:46
persiaIs patchset 3 the one on storyboard.sotk.co.uk?10:47
SotKnope, I shall make it so10:47
Zaraaw, new gerrit is making me remember baserock's gerrit10:51
persiaZara: Because Baserock had newer gerrit?10:52
Zarathink so, wasn't involved in the maintenance at all myself.  ahh we can finally put comments in the precise place, I've missed that for months :)10:52
Zara(openstack's gerrit has annoyed me for ages, but it hasn't been helpful to say that, since I haven't been able to help, so haven't really mentioned it. am very happy about the upgrade!)10:54
persiaThere was a review-dev instance running newer gerrit the past six weeks or so, I thought.10:57
persiaFor next time, it always helps when folk use these test instances and provide feedback (even if the feedback is only "looks great: I really want that.  Everything works for me.")10:58
SotKhttp://storyboard.sotk.co.uk/#!/project_group/list is now using patchset 3 of the project groups update11:04
Zarayeah, I was dimly aware of it but I'm always dimly aware of about 6 things that I should hunt for and comment on at some point. :) I think giving feedback can easily be a full-time job in openstack11:07
persiaInaccessible if not logged in :(11:08
persiaAnd, if I log it, it auto-redirects to Dashboard.11:08
openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Add UI for complex permissions on boards and worklists  https://review.openstack.org/23547611:08
persiaSo -1 from me, but it might just be about where I'm looking at it.11:09
persiaZara: Indeed.  "3-4 reviews per day" is considered a high level of activity around here.11:09
SotKoh huh, good spot persia11:10
SotKwait, it works for me11:10
persiaThen that is probably worth debugging.11:10
SotKcan you reproduce the issue?11:11
* Zara suspects access token issues because it's always the access tokens, gah11:12
persiaI can reproduce.11:13
Zara(looking at about sha patch-- it'd be nice to correlate the shas to human-readable version numbers, but we'd need to get that versioning in place again first.)11:25
SotKyeah, that would be good if we ever get something to correlate them to :)11:25
persiaTo me, the only value to human-readable release numbers is if someone plans to support some release as a stable branch.  Do you plan such support, or plan just pure contiuous delivery?11:26
ZaraI think we should work toward stable branch releases, so yes, but it's not something I've planned in any depth11:26
Zaraso 'plan to' in the sense of 'want to do this in the future' rather than 'have a plan'11:26
persiaSorry: my complaints about the layout were mostly because of an overagressive browser cache.  I retract my -111:29
persiaZara: Yes.  My default preference is always for continuous delivery, so that one fixes bugs in one place, and one is careful to release features in a way that does not break things for users.11:30
persiaThe OpenStack Storyboard is entirely CD, which I think is nice.11:30
persiaSome of the other Storyboards are not entirely CD, but I don't know if that behaviour should be encouraged.11:30
* SotK likes the CD too11:30
Zarain practice, you can be careful but things still break. I like having an option for continuous delivery, for those who want to use it, and try to be as careful as possible, but I like stable releases as a safety net. (and also as markers for 'you can expect to find these features in this version', which would be arduous to find for every sha1)11:36
Zaraeg: if you're installing a big group of projects with multiple incompatibilities, and you're forced to use an old version of one of those projects, it's helpful to know which version of, say, storyboard was compatible with it when current master isn't11:37
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openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Make kanban cards be the correct width  https://review.openstack.org/25645711:40
persiaMy experience with releases is that everyone waits for the release to report bugs, and then complains when the development team works on the development branch, rather than fixing the bugs or backporting new features to the release branch.11:40
persiaBut my experience may not be everyone's experience.11:40
persiaAs for installing a big group of things: for organisations that would find storyboard useful (where there are many project groups, each with many projects, etc.), I suspect that storyboard will generally be given one or more dedicated VMs.11:42
persiaEspecially because that way one can just grab stuff from our puppet modules to automate everything.11:42
persia(yes, non-puppet shops may need to fiddle a bit, but ...)11:42
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Zarayeah, that's the flipside. I still prefer it, because people will complain whatever we do, but that gives me the option to see a small list of versions with features, known bugs and incompatibilities and pick one based on my needs (and upgrade if those needs change/if the list of known bugs gets too long). that can be useful when you need a tool for a clearly defined job that's not likely to change for a while.11:45
persiaThe other worry is that one ends up with poor reviews.  Because one of the other public operators of a Storyboard is so far behind, many users complain about features fixed months ago.11:46
persiaOr look for alternate tools11:47
SotKthat would be my main worry11:47
Zarathere's nothing to stop someone using an old tarball without versions that we define, though.11:47
persiaSince even the CD users complain about missing features or bugs, and the majority of users are CD users, I am surprised at the desire by developers to support more branches.11:47
persiaYes.  Folk can use old tarballs, but if the project communication is that the right way to do it is to use CD, and people using old tarballs are considered silly and told to upgrade, the impact is less.11:48
SotKindeed11:48
ZaraI disagree; CD has been the default view here and it hasn't had that effect. if we have versions, it means we have more control over what old versions other people use, and can avoid anyone using anything embarrassing.11:48
* persia used to be a big fan of releases, but as a greater understanding of typical software development developed, came to understand that a "release" isn't usually actually any more stable or bug-free than a non-release, unless the team isn't being careful anyway11:49
persiaZara: How?  If we publish daily tarballs, someone could choose to consume any one of them.11:49
persiaWe can *recommend* people only use certain versions, but I don't understand why we would recommend someone use a version other than "master".11:50
Zarawilling to bet people will look for a version before they resort to the daily tarball, for the reasons I gave above-- they have a quick record of what it can do relative to other versions.11:50
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persiaFair, but, again, at what point do *you* want to recommend someone run something other than "master"?11:52
* SotK doesn't know how we'd deal with the support implications implied by releases either11:53
persiaI think we're in agreement on telling people not to run old versions, and I think we're in agreement about making sure we have a recommendation so that people can use something we think is good.11:53
Zaramaybe other people choose things in a very different manner to me; I know that when newest tempest wasn't appropriate with other old openstack components, the first course was to try the versioned releases instead of manually testing each sha1 to see if tempest were compatible with other things. and that worked, and saved a lot of time. maybe storyboard isn't analogous, I'm not sure.11:53
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Zaraso I'm not saying 'we should encourage people to use releases', I'm saying 'make life easier for devs who can't use the option they'd ideally like'11:54
ZaraI don't trust everyone to give storyboard a dedicated VM; I'd like to but I just don't xD11:54
Zarashould people use master? yes. can they always use master? no. but I also don't have a lot of time to sink into the support side, so it's somewhat moot. it just seems less effort for us to say 'btw, you have x features in this release' compared to someone struggling to find that out. we're not obligated to do it, either way.11:57
ZaraI just think it'd be nice of us! :P11:57
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SotKdo people think that its fine to just have the "Show x projects" and "Hide x projects" buttons, or would you prefer something like "> Show x projects" and "v Hide x projects"?12:12
Zarathe latter is more consistent with the recent events list, don't think I'd block it either way tbh12:13
* SotK will do the latter to avoid any remote chance of someone confusing the hide button for a project12:14
Zarahahaha12:15
openstackgerritAdam Coldrick proposed openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Tidy up project groups states  https://review.openstack.org/25304912:29
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pedroalvarezhep, ping me if you need some reviewing today :)12:33
pedroalvarezfor things you want to merge before tomorrow, if any12:34
persiaThe storyboard review would be good to land, as some of the webclient stuff is blocked on it.12:34
persia(but I'm not an active developer, so someone may correct me)12:34
persiaOn the webclient, the ones that I think are most exciting are the commit sha and the email preferences, although project groups got discussed a lot, and should be in a final shape.12:35
SotKargh, still broken a bit -.-12:36
persiaMaybe not that one yet, then :)12:37
pedroalvarezyeah, I'd love to see the email-preferences one merged, but the team decided to not merge until that can work in s.o.o IIRC12:37
pedroalvarezwich is fair12:38
persiaHeh: this is why my preferences are untrustworthy :)12:40
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Zarathe project groups patch is a blocker for unlimited pagination; that's the main reason I care about that patch. project groups aren't a big priority for me either.12:42
pedroalvarezwell, time to create a board for storyboard?:???12:42
pedroalvarez:D12:42
SotKprobably12:44
pedroalvarezit should be the board number 112:44
pedroalvarezclearly12:44
SotKthen time to discover that the UI for adding cards is extremely sub-optimal with a large database12:44
pedroalvarezhttps://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/board/112:44
SotKZara: I believe that board is currently yours?12:45
Zarayes12:45
pedroalvarezBacklog Doing Review Done ?12:46
Zarathere you go, you're now owners.12:46
pedroalvarez\o/12:46
ZaraI just wanted to have the first one. ;_;12:46
SotK:)12:46
Zaraalso to spot any bugs that would only be noticeable in master, don't think I noticed any12:47
pedroalvarezthis is an epic day!12:47
persiaIs this a priority worklist for storyboard, or a kanban board for tracking storyboard activities?12:48
persiaBeing called "test board" doesn't help :)12:48
* SotK thinks the latter12:48
SotKthough we should probably have the former too12:48
pedroalvarezbut lanes in kanban board can be used for priority too12:48
Zarait was a test board at the time of naming. it may now be something new12:49
persiaThe former could be a lane in the latter, really.12:49
pedroalvarezsnap12:49
persiaDepends how you want to work: do you prefer a priority list, or a status list.12:49
persiaBoth seems annoying to maintain, to me.12:49
pedroalvarezIt'd be good to have the backlog of the kanban as a priority list12:49
persiaZara: Excellent use of "resolute" :)12:49
SotKpedroalvarez: +112:50
pedroalvarezthe name of the column could be: prioritised backlog12:51
pedroalvarezjust ideas :)12:51
openstackgerritAdam Coldrick proposed openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Tidy up project groups states  https://review.openstack.org/25304912:51
SotK(now fully functional)12:51
persia+1 to having the backlog lane be priority-ordered12:52
Zara:)12:52
SotKhttp://storyboard.sotk.co.uk/#!/project_group/list is now running the most recent version of https://review.openstack.org/25304912:54
persiaCould I ask that board 1 be cleaned up to be useful for how Storyboard is developed?12:57
persiaI'd like to show it off, but it needs more lanes, better titles, etc.12:57
pedroalvarezI tried to12:57
SotKhow urgently?12:58
* SotK would like to obtain food in the imminent future12:58
persiaNot hugely: just a preference12:58
Zaramind if I take the reference to cores out? think it just tracks storyboard development atm, not specific to cores13:01
SotKgo ahead :)13:01
persiaI think removing "core" is much friendlier13:02
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persiaThat only Storyboard cores have write access to the board would be sensible.13:02
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persiaIf you granted access to other active developers, I think nobody would be surprised.13:03
Zarathen changed it from 'StoryBoard Board' because that looked a bit odd13:03
persiaBut I wouldn't expect to be able to set your priorities, given my limited contribution.13:03
Zarabut if anyone dislikes that, please change it back :)13:03
ZaraI've put me, adam and pedro as owners for the moment13:03
Zaraif we get annoyed with persia we'll set it to 'private'13:03
ZaraB)13:04
persiaI hope I can *read* it, I just don't expect to write it.13:04
ZaraI believe you should be able to read it (unless it's private), just not write it, so fear not13:05
ZaraI also need to head out soonish to measure a floor for a wardrobe and things. shouldn't be gone that long13:08
persiaI can, although there appear to be no stories.13:08
Zarahaven't put any in it yet! :)13:08
* SotK adds one13:09
Zarawe'll want a way to click and drag a task we're currently viewing onto a board13:10
SotKwe will indeed13:10
SotKor at least a button to do so13:11
Zarayeah13:11
SotKand also a way to search properly in the add card UI13:11
Zaraheh13:11
SotKrather than the madness I made13:11
Zarastill, it's a good start. :)13:11
* persia is amused to see the process of dogfooding already generating so much input13:11
Zarawe should probably have a separate board just for worklists and boards :P13:11
persiaSo, these should be written up, and put in the priority backlog :)13:12
persia(because until you have a working board, it gets tricky to determine which of the other things need doing soonest)13:12
Zarait's mostly stuff we were already aware of, tbh, but weird recording tasks for things which aren't implemented.13:12
* Zara disappears for a bit13:17
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SotKoh dear, moving cards is giving a 500 error14:31
Zaraargh, there's always something14:31
SotKbut working14:31
Zaraalso wow that took longer than expected14:32
Zaraprotip: if you're assembling a bed, put the slats on *before* the mattress14:32
ZaraI forgot there were slats14:32
SotKhahaha14:32
ZaraI spent about 20 minutes wrestling with a double mattress that was waaaaay too heavy for me, while it kept falling under the bed or sliding off one side when I put it on the other14:32
ZaraI was like 'HOW DO PEOPLE BALANCE THESE THINGS'14:33
Zarathen went into the other room and saw the slats and remembered them14:33
ZaraI didn't even intend to go to assemble the bed but there was a chance to do DIY and I'm only human...14:33
ZaraI'm stayin' laaaate tonight~14:33
pedroalvarezhm,,, I can't move cards into empty lanes14:36
SotKargh14:38
pedroalvarez:)14:38
SotKha, that will be caused by the "make cards the right width" patch14:39
SotKI bet the droppable area becomes non-existent now it has display:inline-block14:40
SotKoops14:40
pedroalvarezroar!14:40
SotKindeed it does14:40
pedroalvarezoh yes, it's only a tiny bit on the top-left corner14:42
pedroalvarezthe droppable area14:42
pedroalvarezbut then, lanes with cards look awful14:42
pedroalvarez(if you revert that change)14:42
SotKsetting a min-width and min-height will fix it14:43
SotKbut moving a card into a lane on master eats the card14:46
SotKs/master/s.o.o/14:46
pedroalvareznope14:47
* pedroalvarez plays with the tet card story14:47
pedroalvareztest*14:47
SotKwait, is that card really small for you?14:48
pedroalvarezthat might be the reason of the extralong cards too?14:48
SotKcould be14:49
pedroalvarezI bet because of the "task_assignee_changed" one14:49
pedroalvareztoo long string14:49
SotKaha!14:49
pedroalvarezremoving inline-block makes it bigger14:50
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SotKI don't get why it all works fine on my test instance but s.o.o is so completely broken14:58
pedroalvarezdo you want me to put the same version on teststoryboard.b.o?14:59
SotKthat would be helpful, thanks :)15:00
* pedroalvarez triggers ansible15:00
SotKwhaaa, I've now just moved a card without a 500 error15:35
Zara~why not~15:36
SotKseems only to happen when a lane with a bunch of cards in is updated16:02
SotK(currently this is a bit silly and makes a PUT request for each card in the affected lane)16:03
pedroalvarezup in teststoryboard16:07
ZaraI've forgotten my baserock openid and trying to reset it didn't work, btw16:07
pedroalvarez:(16:08
SotKooh, I see the error in teststoryboard \o/16:08
pedroalvarezdo you want ssh access?16:08
SotKyes please :)16:09
Zaraso I can't login to teststoryboard (and the 'reset password' for openid not working may also be something the baserock team need to fix)16:09
pedroalvarezSotK: /msg me your ssh public key please16:09
SotKeverything is broken today16:09
SotKpedroalvarez: done16:10
pedroalvarezSotK: done16:12
SotKthank you :)16:12
pedroalvareznp16:14
pedroalvarezfeel free to change to launchpad openid if you have problems with the baserock one16:14
Zarahow do I do that? I'm trying to get into teststoryboard but the login button defaults to openid.baserock.org16:16
pedroalvarezit was for SotK who has root access now16:16
pedroalvarez(the comment)16:16
SotKgah now I can't see the error again16:17
Zaraoh, right16:17
SotKall I did was `less /var/log/apache2/error.log`, `less /var/log/storyboard/sb.log`, and `tailf /var/log/storyboard/sb.log`16:18
Zarasome kind of race condition?16:18
Zaramaybe doing the less took some time I have no idea16:19
SotKsaw it again briefly16:19
Zaramaybe it's shy16:19
SotKhooray a log16:19
SotKthis is very odd16:20
Zaratbf, 'very odd' happens weekly16:21
SotKlooks like pika is exploding for some reason16:21
* Zara googles pika, gets animal pics, eventually sees it's a python pkg16:22
SotKit handles publishing notification events to rabbitmq16:22
Zara'A pika is a small mammal, with short limbs, very round body, rounded ears, and no external tail'-- I'm just going to imagine that you can find one of those inside every storyboard instance16:23
Zarasuddenly it all makes sense.16:24
-openstackstatus- NOTICE: Zuul is moving in very slow motion since roughly 13:30 UTC; the Infra team is investigating.16:43
SotKOK, I have a workaround for the 500 error :D17:40
Zara\o/17:40
SotKI'll send a patch in a second17:41
Zara:) I'll test it asap17:41
openstackgerritAdam Coldrick proposed openstack-infra/storyboard: Workaround 500 error when moving items in worklists  https://review.openstack.org/25912817:47
Zaratesting now \o/17:49
pedroalvarezRabbitmq is still something I don't know anything about17:51
pedroalvarezmight be some differences in dev and prod17:51
SotKseems like pika is breaking sometimes, idk why properly17:52
Zaramy other notifications seem fine, which I thought I should check for just in case. no weird errors. can't test everything, but doesn't seem to break anythign else for me so far17:52
openstackgerritAdam Coldrick proposed openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Fix various style bugs with cards  https://review.openstack.org/25913117:53
SotKcan we please merge both of those? :D17:55
* pedroalvarez tests the latter17:55
Zarafirst one merged17:57
SotK\o/17:57
ZaraI haven't seen the super wide cards issue17:57
Zarais it a chrome thing, or is there a link?17:57
Zaraunless you mean tall cards?17:57
SotKnope, I mean wide17:58
pedroalvarezZara: http://teststoryboard.baserock.org/#!/board/217:58
Zarahuh @_@17:58
Zaraweird, that didn't happen on mine17:59
Zaraor was mine created after it was patched behind the scenes?18:00
pedroalvarezI think the inline-block patch introduced this regression18:00
Zara(http://teststoryboard.baserock.org/#!/board/4 )18:01
pedroalvarezyeah, the problem is with longnames18:02
SotKthat board doesn't have something with a long enough name18:02
pedroalvarezbut without whitespaces18:02
pedroalvarezsomethinkuselesslikethis18:02
pedroalvarezs/k/g/18:02
Zaraoh, right, I thought we didn't care about that because it wasn't going to happen18:02
pedroalvarezit actually happened18:02
pedroalvarezand in our board18:03
SotKjust not very badly thankfully18:03
pedroalvarezcome on grunt! you can compile this thing faster18:03
Zarabut we know the longnames one breaks drag and drop?18:04
Zarainto new lanes?18:04
SotKwhat do you mean?18:05
ZaraI thought the reason drag and drop into new lanes, unless done from the top left corner, wasn't working was because of the cards width patch18:05
Zaras/new lanes/empty lanes18:06
SotKdifferent cards width patch :)18:06
SotKheh18:06
Zaraahaha18:06
* SotK has made a right mess of it all 18:06
Zaralol, because that bit seemed to work on curent master18:06
SotKhttps://review.openstack.org/259131 fixes the drag and drop too18:06
pedroalvarezyay! http://teststoryboard.baserock.org/#!/board/218:06
Zaraso I was thinking 'idk that solving the edge case of long names is preferable to good drag and drop, but it's because I had things mixed up.18:07
ZaraxD18:07
Zarawill test now, thanks for being patient18:07
pedroalvarezworks good from phone too18:09
pedroalvarezanymore before I leave?18:10
* SotK doesn't think so18:10
SotKthanks for sticking around to help :)18:11
pedroalvarezright! enojoy your holidays!! :D18:11
pedroalvarezno problem18:11
Zarahm, the title of a long no-whitespace task goes out of the modal but that's a fix for another time18:11
Zarayeah, thanks pedroalvarez!18:11
SotKyeah I'm going to rework that modal as soon as I can anyway :)18:12
Zaranp18:12
SotKadding to boards is currently pretty arduous18:12
pedroalvarezanytime18:12
pedroalvarezlet's hope zuul merges this18:12
* SotK has fingers crossed18:13
Zaraokay, it seems to work fine, can't find anything else it's breaking18:13
SotK\o/18:13
Zaraanything else to do, or am I okay to catch a train?18:27
SotKI think you're OK to catch a train :)18:27
Zarawoop! \o/18:27
openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/storyboard: Workaround 500 error when moving items in worklists  https://review.openstack.org/25912821:09
openstackgerritMerged openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Fix various style bugs with cards  https://review.openstack.org/25913121:12
SotK\o/21:41
pedroalvarezGood22:08
SotKnow we just to wait for them to filter through to storyboard.o.o22:34
pedroalvarezGoing sloooooow22:37
pedroalvarezBut eventually..22:37
* SotK wonders why his browser is saying review.openstack.org's cert has been revoked22:38
SotKI suspect its something on my end, given it works elsewhere22:38
pedroalvarezYeh, my phone dke22:39
pedroalvarez.. didn't complaint22:39
SotKyeah, even using a different browser is working now, weird22:40
SotKseems like its updated now23:13
SotKafter adding some things, I suspect our backlog is too long to be fully prioritised :)23:24
persiaThat is why I like worklists.  Nobody ever fully prioritises all the bugs, or at least not in a project with any number of users.23:54
persiaInstead, one picks some that are obviously priorities, and if the list gets too short, adds some more (but usually, the list does not get too short because bugs are escalated).23:55

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