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| openstackgerrit | Nikita Konovalov proposed openstack-infra/storyboard: Added tags controllers https://review.openstack.org/114217 | 10:26 |
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| ttx | krotscheck: one use case for story/tasklists: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-November/051133.html | 10:46 |
| ttx | ideally they would not use a manually-updated etherpad for that | 10:46 |
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| ttx | (and there are plenty of those, like https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/glance-juno-release-bugs) | 10:51 |
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| ttx | (random, ordered lists of tasks to track) | 10:52 |
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| openstackgerrit | yolanda.robla proposed openstack-infra/storyboard: Add API call to return task statuses https://review.openstack.org/135221 | 11:28 |
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| openstackgerrit | yolanda.robla proposed openstack-infra/storyboard: Add API call to return task statuses https://review.openstack.org/135221 | 11:52 |
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| reed | krotscheck, congratulations! Do you mind if I copy the text of your email to -dev list and make a blog post on openstack.org? I think the announcement requires a lot of visibility | 12:05 |
| reed | krotscheck, I'd obviously make you the author of the blog post :) | 12:05 |
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| yolanda | krotscheck, i found a problem on events dashboard. Looks as story_created doesn't have any event_info related, is null | 13:44 |
| yolanda | do you have same problem locally? | 13:44 |
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| openstackgerrit | yolanda.robla proposed openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Add more details on event dashboard https://review.openstack.org/135954 | 13:58 |
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| krotscheck | reed: Go ahead. | 15:41 |
| krotscheck | yolanda: That seems like a bug. File a story? | 15:42 |
| krotscheck | reed: I was also going to put it on my own blog. | 15:42 |
| * krotscheck runs off to go do that. | 15:42 | |
| yolanda | krotschek, yes, wanted to check if that was happening to others as well | 15:42 |
| yolanda | i wll be taking a look together with the events dashboard task | 15:43 |
| reed | krotscheck, sweet | 15:43 |
| krotscheck | reed: I think the openstack one gets more traffic though :D | 15:43 |
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| reed | krotscheck, indeed, it does. Although if you put it on planet, I'll feature it in the newsletter anyway and the nl goes on the blog... | 15:44 |
| reed | so less important to feature it on openstack.org/blog if it's going to be on planet, too from your blog :) | 15:44 |
| reed | especially if it's the same content... I'll wait for your post first | 15:45 |
| yolanda | krotscheck, don't you think that tasks should need a title and a description? i'd like to be more descriptive in the tasks i'm creating | 15:47 |
| krotscheck | yolanda: Take that one up with ttx :) | 15:55 |
| krotscheck | reed: Here ya go: http://www.krotscheck.net/2014/11/20/goodbye-launchpad-hello-storyboard.html | 15:56 |
| * krotscheck peers at his blog. Apparently comments are not a thing. | 15:59 | |
| reed | krotscheck, :) thanks | 16:04 |
| reed | krotscheck, I enjoyed reading http://www.krotscheck.net/about-the-author :) | 16:12 |
| jedimike | yolanda, i'm working on the description for tasks now | 16:31 |
| jedimike | yolanda, https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/154 | 16:31 |
| yolanda | ah cool | 16:32 |
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| jedimike | gah, i'm still getting those database errors where migrations fail if the tests are grouped and run at the same time | 16:48 |
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| ttx | yolanda: I'm already questioning them having a *title* | 17:17 |
| ttx | The tasks need to be very lightweight | 17:17 |
| ttx | because some stories will have a ton of them | 17:17 |
| ttx | I feel like adding description to title will make them a bit too heavyweight | 17:18 |
| ttx | If the tasks are complex, they should be described in a sepc anyway | 17:18 |
| ttx | spec* | 17:18 |
| ttx | I don't want us to fall into the trap of having to add a task-editing window and task-specific comments... | 17:19 |
| ttx | and end up with bugs and subbugs like bugzilla | 17:19 |
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| ttx | commented on story | 17:24 |
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| ttx | krotscheck: is there a way to subscribe to a story directly from the story page ? couldn't find it | 17:26 |
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| paulsher1ood | would it make sense for the timeline to be in reverse chronological order? istm recent activity is more useful by default? | 17:36 |
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| krotscheck | ttx: Not yet, but that’s easy. | 17:39 |
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| jedimike | krotscheck, i think we need something on stories to say if we've accepted them to work on or not. The title/descripion story was marked as "to do", so I assumed it needed doing rather than more discussion :) | 17:40 |
| krotscheck | ttx: ^^ re to paulsher1ood, you recently argued against this on yolanda’s commit, we now have two people who prefer that. | 17:40 |
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| krotscheck | jedimike: Like the difference between ‘new’ and ‘accepted'? | 17:40 |
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| yolanda | krotscheck, what do you think about that? | 17:41 |
| krotscheck | jedimike: Perhaps. I don’t think any of us have had a real discussion about workflow yet. | 17:41 |
| krotscheck | yolanda: I feel that the ordering is orthogonal to the utility of the event stream. Some events are useful to see in chronological order, others are not. | 17:41 |
| jedimike | yeah, "requested" and "accepted", something like that. It's really tricky to pick up on what needs doing just by browsing the story list, by default things seem to be "active" and "to do" | 17:41 |
| jedimike | I can't just go pick one and start working on it, because I can't tell what actually needs doing | 17:42 |
| krotscheck | I think that the real need here is that the most relevant information is presented. A desire to reverse the order is likely caused by a desire to see comments without having to wade through all the other events. | 17:42 |
| krotscheck | So I really want to see the underlying motivation, the use case, of what is driving the desire for reverse ordering. | 17:42 |
| krotscheck | jedimike: I can be convineced to add ‘new’ to the types. | 17:43 |
| paulsher1ood | krotscheck: i respectfully disagree. it's just that once there's heavy usage, there will be lots of info in the timelines. wading donw to get to the curren info will be a pita imo | 17:43 |
| krotscheck | paulsher1ood: And then there’s your argument :). | 17:43 |
| krotscheck | paulsher1ood: So the pain point is the crazy number of items. | 17:44 |
| krotscheck | paulsher1ood: There’s a usage pattern in gmail that handles that. Collapse anything recent. | 17:44 |
| paulsher1ood | krotscheck: :-) i'd also suggest shortening the view of time/date, so that the entries can be on one line, with ellipsis... on the text | 17:44 |
| krotscheck | Sorry | 17:44 |
| krotscheck | Other way around | 17:44 |
| krotscheck | Collapse anything old | 17:44 |
| krotscheck | Oh yeah, date/time | 17:44 |
| krotscheck | that’s a different discussion altogether which I lost :/ | 17:44 |
| * krotscheck is totall on the shorter-date-time-is-more-relevant side of that. | 17:45 | |
| paulsher1ood | we just do date. time is too much detail imo | 17:45 |
| paulsher1ood | (short form date) | 17:45 |
| krotscheck | We have a momentjs implementation that can be tweaked. Time-ago for anything up to 24 hours, then date? | 17:46 |
| paulsher1ood | krotscheck: who would you like me to discuss with? | 17:46 |
| paulsher1ood | :) | 17:46 |
| krotscheck | paulsher1ood: That’s a jeblair thing :) | 17:46 |
| paulsher1ood | krotscheck: perfect +1 from me | 17:46 |
| krotscheck | And a clarkb thing | 17:46 |
| paulsher1ood | so in part i'm raising these to test the waters... i'm guessing someone started submitting patches for stuff like this at random, they would be rejected since there's been prior discussion? or not? | 17:47 |
| krotscheck | paulsher1ood: At this point, we’re happy to have anyone working on this. | 17:47 |
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| paulsher1ood | cool! | 17:48 |
| krotscheck | paulsher1ood: Also, if you have UX people, and can convince them to do the research necessary to back up any changes you want, then I would love you forever. | 17:49 |
| paulsher1ood | to be a bit meta about it.. would the process need to be story first, then somehow agreement for us to work on it, then patches? or can/should we just start throwing code? sorry if this is documented elswhere | 17:49 |
| krotscheck | Well.... | 17:49 |
| krotscheck | We have a roadmap. | 17:50 |
| paulsher1ood | krotscheck: sadly i'm one of our 'ux' people, and i tend to do research by coding until complaints die down to an acceptable roar | 17:50 |
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| krotscheck | paulsher1ood: You sound like me. | 17:50 |
| paulsher1ood | are you 50? | 17:50 |
| krotscheck | paulsher1ood: 37 | 17:50 |
| paulsher1ood | and a handsome devil? | 17:50 |
| paulsher1ood | :-) | 17:50 |
| krotscheck | No, I’m stunningly beautiful ;) | 17:50 |
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| * paulsher1ood is jealous, now | 17:50 | |
| krotscheck | This roadmap is necessary for project success. People working on it generally like contributing toward that success, however in order to meet our feature needs, UX dev has often been a “Just put it on the screen” approach without much rigor behind it. | 17:51 |
| krotscheck | Also, this is openstack. | 17:51 |
| paulsher1ood | yes i understand. this stuff is hard. and you're on a fast-moving set of trains | 17:51 |
| krotscheck | And while good patches can come out of left field, we do like consensus. | 17:51 |
| paulsher1ood | i'm thinking we should start with some small stuff, to find our feet, while digesting the roadmap, hence thinking about small ux tweaks | 17:52 |
| paulsher1ood | we being me and some of my lurking colleagues :) | 17:52 |
| * CTtpollard waves | 17:53 | |
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| * krotscheck waves abck | 17:54 | |
| krotscheck | paulsher1ood: We need a way to subscribe to a story from the story detail screen :) | 17:54 |
| paulsher1ood | ok. let's start with that. i assume there's a story? | 17:55 |
| * paulsher1ood goes to look | 17:55 | |
| paulsher1ood | https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/96 i guess | 17:58 |
| paulsher1ood | and the task "Build webclient UI for subscription events." | 17:58 |
| krotscheck | paulsher1ood: Well, in reality, I built that UI and totally forgot about the story page. I just added it to the list results. | 17:59 |
| krotscheck | So you can add another task easily enough, or file a new story as a bug saying that krotscheck was too lazy to build it properly :) | 17:59 |
| paulsher1ood | ok, but if you don't mind i'd like to explore this a bit more, make sure i understand | 18:01 |
| krotscheck | paulsher1ood: No worries. | 18:01 |
| paulsher1ood | should that task on 96 be 'done' now? | 18:01 |
| paulsher1ood | and is there another story that describes what you mentioned above? | 18:02 |
| paulsher1ood | if not, i'll create one now and paste 'We need a way to subscribe to a story from the story detail screen' in as a start... | 18:02 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: what's a me thing? | 18:08 |
| paulsher1ood | timeline order, jeblair i think | 18:08 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: Showing dates in UTC rather than delayed time. | 18:08 |
| krotscheck | Or just dates. | 18:08 |
| * paulsher1ood was asking for tighter info on timeline, and reversing its order | 18:08 | |
| jeblair | krotscheck: yeah, i need absolute utc timestamps -- because that's what all the other systems i use have, and i need to compare timestamps of events across different systems (i think that's the fundamental use of having timestamps) | 18:10 |
| jeblair | of course, the current system is not in utc, but we can fix that :) | 18:10 |
| jeblair | i think order is a different question | 18:10 |
| paulsher1ood | jeblair: do you mean in the api, or in the ui? i'm talking about the ui - i just would like one line per item, as much text as possible, short date | 18:11 |
| jeblair | paulsher1ood: i mean the ui. don't we have one line per item? | 18:11 |
| * paulsher1ood could have sworn he had seen some examples of more than one line, but now fails to do so | 18:13 | |
| paulsher1ood | https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/76 | 18:14 |
| paulsher1ood | so mostly yes, but i guess comments are different? | 18:14 |
| jeblair | here are things i do with bugs related to times: compare when the bug was submitted to logs from systems, or when a patch merged in git, or something was reported on irc, or when a package was released. in all of those cases, i want to compare without doing mental math, so that means absolute utc time. | 18:16 |
| jeblair | and that all applies equally to "compare when someone left a comment" as well | 18:16 |
| jeblair | paulsher1ood: yeah, i think comments are the only multi-line events right now | 18:17 |
| jeblair | i don't have any use for "X hours ago" because then i have to do math, and i'm likely to get it wrong, and getting it wrong could mean mis-diagnosing a problem | 18:18 |
| jeblair | so as it stands, storyboard is more useful for me if i ignore it for 24 hours. | 18:19 |
| paulsher1ood | jeblair: i see your point. so you'd want to drop the +0100 suffix and just be sure that it's in the timezone you care about? | 18:19 |
| jeblair | paulsher1ood: if i were the only user, i'd set it to utc and drop the timezone. but i know some people would prefer it to display in their local tz, so we should probably have a user preference option to set utc or local tz. that makes it ambiguous so i think we should display the tz. | 18:22 |
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| paulsher1ood | jeblair: your logic is irrefutable. it's still ugly, though imo :) would an ability to override the format as a config option be possible? | 18:24 |
| jeblair | i think it's especially a problem if we make it a configuration option -- then the meaning of the timestamp can change depending on whether or not a person is logged in | 18:25 |
| * paulsher1ood notices the 'Update timeline filter' - so timeline can already change depending on whether or not a person is logged in? | 18:27 | |
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| openstackgerrit | Michael Krotscheck proposed openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Streamlined task edit form. https://review.openstack.org/135739 | 19:36 |
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| krotscheck | Ugh chatty api | 21:32 |
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| krotscheck | Question. Should a POST (to create) result in a 301 redirect to the new resource’s URI? | 22:22 |
| openstackgerrit | Michael Krotscheck proposed openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Switched use of "Resource.read()" to "Resource.get()" https://review.openstack.org/136148 | 22:24 |
| openstackgerrit | Michael Krotscheck proposed openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Enable HTTP Caching on resources. https://review.openstack.org/136149 | 22:24 |
| krotscheck | ^^ That one should speed things up a bit. | 22:27 |
| openstackgerrit | Michael Krotscheck proposed openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Enable HTTP Caching on resources. https://review.openstack.org/136149 | 22:31 |
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