| *** gboutry[m] is now known as gboutry | 11:30 | |
| opendevreview | Kristi Nikolla proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Update docs for Unmaintained https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-team-guide/+/897505 | 15:07 |
|---|---|---|
| JayF | tc-members: meeting in ~70 minutes | 16:50 |
| *** d34dh0r5- is now known as d34dh0r53 | 17:03 | |
| dansmith | did the zoom link get removed from the meeting agenda page? | 17:57 |
| JayF | tc-members: https://us06web.zoom.us/j/87108541765?pwd=emlXVXg4QUxrUTlLNDZ2TTllWUM3Zz09 | 17:57 |
| JayF | dansmith: removed is less correct than "I didn't add it this time", it's in the email to openstack-discuss and it's ^, if it's usually in the wiki it was an unintentional omission | 17:58 |
| dansmith | I thought we left it on the agenda page always for "if zoom, here's the link" | 17:58 |
| JayF | If that was a normal practice, it wasn't over the last six months when I was vice-chair and had to reset agenda a few times | 17:58 |
| JayF | at least not that I noticed | 17:59 |
| fungi | if you're talking about the wiki, there is a browseable/diffable revision history for it too | 17:59 |
| JayF | I'm not sure it matters that much as long as the link is generally available; I'll ensure to include it in future weeks with zoom meetings | 18:00 |
| bauzas | for once, I'll stay in the back of the room | 18:00 |
| fungi | it's closer to the refreshments | 18:00 |
| bauzas | oh that's a zoom meeting | 18:00 |
| JayF | #startmeeting tc | 18:00 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting started Tue Nov 7 18:00:57 2023 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is JayF. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| opendevmeet | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| opendevmeet | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 18:00 |
| JayF | #topic Roll Call | 18:01 |
| JayF | o/ | 18:01 |
| gmann | o/ | 18:01 |
| JayF | #info Today's meeting is being held primarily via video call. Action items and meeting minutes will be documented in IRC but for a full replay of the meeting, please visit the OpenStack TC youtube channel, where the recording will be uploaded soon. | 18:01 |
| JayF | #link https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBuGwBXOmWHydSE09RM84wQ | 18:01 |
| knikolla | o/ | 18:01 |
| JayF | Welcome to the weekly meeting of the OpenStack Technical Committee. A reminder that this meeting is held under the OpenInfra Code of Conduct available at https://openinfra.dev/legal/code-of-conduct. | 18:01 |
| * bauzas shamelessly lurks | 18:01 | |
| JayF | Today's meeting agenda can be found at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee. | 18:01 |
| rosmaita | o/ | 18:01 |
| JayF | #topic Follow up on tracked action items | 18:04 |
| JayF | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/JayF-Nov-2023-MeetPad-v-Zoom | 18:04 |
| fungi | you had to opt into meetpad in the last ptg | 18:07 |
| fungi | another concern on the foundation side is zoom licenses (zoom really doesn't like you scaling licenses up and down) | 18:08 |
| rosmaita | The "Share your PTG feedback with us!" email (31 Oct 2023) says "One important thing to note is that for our next PTG event (the first PTG in 2024, dates TBD) we will be making the default meeting tool Meetpad instead of Zoom because open source needs open tools" | 18:09 |
| JayF | Discussion ongoing in video around action item to document meetpad/zoom pros and cons for hosting TC meetings. Discussion currently informational in nature; any change in meeting location would require an update to our written documentation. | 18:09 |
| JayF | #info Jay is not taking further action on moving TC meetings from Zoom. Encourages other tc-members who may have strong feelings about Zoom-located meetings to write up a proposal to change if they wish a change to happen. | 18:18 |
| JayF | #topic Gate Health Check | 18:18 |
| gmann | frickler: on the topic you not joining TC video call. is the reason zoom or video call or time thing? In TC meeting today it is not clear what is reason so that we can try to solve and include you in meeting. | 18:19 |
| JayF | #info Dan reports nothing serious; a single flakey test with Nova that is likely nova's fault. Token's caching client patch merged; numbers have improved but some reports that other behaviors may be worse. Overall health is OK but slowly regressing. | 18:20 |
| JayF | dansmith: ^ that an accurate reflection for the minutes? | 18:20 |
| JayF | #undo | 18:20 |
| opendevmeet | Removing item from minutes: #info Dan reports nothing serious; a single flakey test with Nova that is likely nova's fault. Token's caching client patch merged; numbers have improved but some reports that other behaviors may be worse. Overall health is OK but slowly regressing. | 18:20 |
| JayF | #info Dan reports nothing serious; a single flakey test with Nova that is likely nova's fault. Tokens caching client patch merged; numbers have improved but some reports that other behaviors may be worse. Overall health is OK but slowly regressing. | 18:20 |
| dansmith | sure | 18:21 |
| fungi | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/oslo.utils/+bug/2042886 versionutils convert_version_to_tuple fails with beta versions (linked in zoom chat by slaweq) | 18:21 |
| fungi | #link PBR 6.0.0 released just now (adding PEP 660 support, dropping Sphinx integration), keep an eye out for problems: https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/releases/+/900041 | 18:24 |
| JayF | thank you for adding those links to the minutes | 18:24 |
| JayF | #topic Leaderless Projects | 18:27 |
| JayF | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/2024.1-leaderless | 18:29 |
| JayF | #info tc-members are encouraged to review the etherpad and review PTL appointments | 18:30 |
| JayF | #topic Implementation of Unmaintained Branch Statuses | 18:30 |
| clarkb | fwiw Kolla, Glance, SDK, PTGbot, and OpenStack Security teams used meetpad during the PTG. There may have been others and I missed tehm. | 18:30 |
| JayF | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/early-caracal-unmaintained-transition | 18:30 |
| JayF | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-team-guide/+/897505 | 18:31 |
| JayF | #info TC discussed logistics of implementing unmaintained status; main item we need is to ensure we engage releases team to make sure whatever path we pick for implementation works well for them. We need to ensure those communications explicitly include the fact that UM->EOL transitions may become the only release transition that does not require a PTL approval. | 18:48 |
| bauzas | and what if a PTL wants a UM branch to be EOL ? | 18:53 |
| fungi | #link Resolution on unmaintained branches: https://governance.openstack.org/tc/resolutions/20230724-unmaintained-branches.html | 18:54 |
| gmann | bauzas: they can propose and it stays for a month if anyone volunteer to maintain in unmaintained state. if no volunteer then it goes to EOL | 18:54 |
| JayF | #topic PTG Follow Ups | 18:54 |
| gmann | but current proposal in p-t-g change is moving unmaintained to EOL stays for 1 month at least | 18:55 |
| JayF | #info Jay will send email to the ML in the next week summarizing TC PTG activities and transition tracked items to 2024.1 TC Tracker | 18:55 |
| JayF | #topic Open Discussion and Review | 18:55 |
| fungi | #link This month's OpenInfra Foundation newsletter is being finalized tomorrow, if you have any content you want included for OpenStack please add it to https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/newsletter-openstack-news today and I'll try to include it. | 18:55 |
| gmann | bauzas: feel free to review it #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-team-guide/+/897505?usp=email | 18:55 |
| JayF | #link https://review.opendev.org/q/status:open+repo:openstack/governance | 18:55 |
| bauzas | gmann: thanks, I see written in the TC resolution "The PTL or Unmaintained branch liaison are allowed to delete an Unmaintained branch early, before its scheduled branch deletion." | 18:56 |
| fungi | #link OpenInfra Live is hosting a PTG recap episode for anyone wishing to participate: https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/thread/P4Y66SJNBG4DGW7URYAAJGKAI7NA33F5/ | 18:56 |
| gmann | bauzas: yeah, they can propose but it stays for 1 month at least so that we give enough time for any volunteer to show up | 18:56 |
| bauzas | ack | 18:57 |
| JayF | #action Jay to sign up to rep TC at the PTG OpenInfra Live recap | 18:58 |
| JayF | #info Recording to be uploaded to youtube later today. | 19:00 |
| JayF | #endmeeting tc | 19:00 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting ended Tue Nov 7 19:00:36 2023 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2023/tc.2023-11-07-18.00.html | 19:00 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2023/tc.2023-11-07-18.00.txt | 19:00 |
| opendevmeet | Log: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2023/tc.2023-11-07-18.00.log.html | 19:00 |
| fungi | tc-members: oh, don't forget, openinfra board meeting in a few hours | 19:01 |
| fungi | https://board.openinfra.dev/en/meetings/2023-11-07 | 19:01 |
| JayF | fungi: is that something I'm expected to attend? I don't have an invite for any of those | 19:01 |
| fungi | it's open for anyone who wants to attend | 19:01 |
| JayF | Let me ask a more exact question then. | 19:01 |
| JayF | In my role as TC Chair; would it be a valuable meeting for me to attend in your opinion/ | 19:02 |
| * JayF will probably attend anyway | 19:02 | |
| clarkb | I think only board members get explicit invites. Everyone else gets email reminders without the calendar bits | 19:02 |
| fungi | i wouldn't consider it necessary, but if you have an interest in the governance of the foundation that represents the project then i find it sometimes enlightening | 19:02 |
| JayF | clarkb: there's some subset of board functions I got invited to as vice-chair, unsure if that was ad-hoc or not though | 19:03 |
| clarkb | those emaisl go to the foundation list | 19:03 |
| knikolla | It's usually helpful to know what's happening with the board and drive collaboration between the two groups. | 19:03 |
| fungi | agendas are published in advance, so you can also use that to determine whether it's anything you care to hear the board members talk about | 19:03 |
| knikolla | When it makes sense. | 19:03 |
| JayF | yeah, I should attend when I can for sure, just been juggling a couple more things than my capacity to the last month :D | 19:04 |
| fungi | JayF: for openstack specifically, this time they're talking about progress in de-openstackifying the foundation bylaws | 19:04 |
| JayF | yeah, it's on my calendar I'll be there this time | 19:04 |
| JayF | which means I have 2 hours to walk the dog and get lunch o/ | 19:04 |
| fungi | also update to the d&i wg charter (to make it less openstack-specific) and outcomes from the ai contribution discussions | 19:04 |
| JayF | basically greatest hits album as far as OIF goes, sounds good to me | 19:05 |
| fungi | there's also some foundation staff info on proposed 2024 goals and budgeting | 19:06 |
| fungi | i think the executive session is going to end up cancelled, but if they hold that, non-board-member attendees will have to drop from the call at that point | 19:06 |
| JayF | obviously :) | 19:07 |
| JayF | well, I guess not everyone knows that | 19:08 |
| JayF | I used to cover small town council and school board meetings for a newspaper when I was significantly younger | 19:08 |
| JayF | Video is currently processing; will be available here: https://youtu.be/qv6nSRhfV_M | 19:09 |
| opendevreview | Dmitriy Rabotyagov proposed openstack/openstack-manuals master: Drop hardcoded TripleO links https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/885052 | 19:19 |
| spotz[m] | Sorry time change messed me up! | 19:37 |
| fungi | spotz[m]: don't forget, board meeting in a little over an hour | 19:38 |
| spotz[m] | That I got as it wasn’t a standing UTC meeting | 19:46 |
| JayF | spotz[m]: I maintain a UTC calendar invite for TC meetings; it's no effort for me to add you as an invitee if you find that useful | 19:50 |
| fungi | i think meetings.opendev.org serves ical files? | 19:54 |
| fungi | https://meetings.opendev.org/calendars/technical-committee-meeting.ics | 19:54 |
| fungi | no idea if there's a reason to avoid using those | 19:55 |
| JayF | Those are incredibly awkward to use in many web clients, frankly. For me personally, it's easier to manually recreate the meeting using the details than it is to download and import the ICS file into my google calendar (where my work calendar is stored) | 19:56 |
| JayF | That's not really our fault; the standards in this space are pretty awful and interoperability was not high on anyones' list when designing this stuff :( | 19:57 |
| fungi | if there's anything we can do to improve the usability there, i'm happy to review changes | 19:59 |
| fungi | but yeah, i don't use those because my calendar is based on an entirely different (older) data format which i don't feel like bothering to set up an importer for | 20:00 |
| JayF | yeah, I don't think there's much that could be done to improve usability beyond doing something like, a mailing list with meeting invites being sent to it | 20:03 |
| JayF | which is maximum ergonomic but also maximum overkill | 20:03 |
| fungi | granted, the "remind" format is just one line in a text file for each calendar entry, so easier to enter by hand than to go through import steps | 20:04 |
| JayF | basically the idea of anything but 1) an ics file representing a single appt coming in over email or 2) an ICS file representing *an entire calendar* to display as a separate calendar ... are ill handled in most webmail apps | 20:04 |
| fungi | well, i've also heard from people that sending ics files to mailing lists is not helpful because either their calendar imports it automatically even if they don't want it, or their calendar doesn't import it because the to address is the mailing list and not their inbox... | 20:05 |
| JayF | and it's not really always the apps fault, the spec is not great either, and basically none of the incentives for cooperation are aligned | 20:05 |
| JayF | fungi: yep, which is why it'd have to be separate mailing lists, there are more exceptions that'd make it painful, which is part of why I called it maximum overkill | 20:05 |
| JayF | fungi: b/c it'd need overengineering and still wouldn't be awesome | 20:06 |
| fungi | also challenging to design from scratch a solution that can't be abused to send spam to everyone | 20:06 |
| JayF | yep, exactly | 20:06 |
| JayF | part of why there's so little incentive to do cross-system shared calendering extremely well | 20:07 |
| JayF | Going to paste a few governance reviews here that need addl. attention | 20:10 |
| JayF | https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/898858 "Retire js-openstack-lib" | 20:10 |
| JayF | https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/896487 "Add OpenStack Keystone LDAP K8S charm" | 20:12 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/governance master: Propose Extra-ACs from I18n SIG (2023.2) https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/897941 | 20:16 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/governance master: Spelling, grammar followups for 895160 https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/898754 | 20:16 |
| JayF | https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/899368 "Add OpenStack Exporter k8s charm" | 20:20 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/governance master: Appoint Wenxiang Wu as PTL of Skyline https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/897922 | 20:33 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/governance master: 2022 User Survey TC Question Analysis https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/892670 | 20:33 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/governance master: [docs] Add links to release based runtimes https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/899301 | 20:37 |
| JayF | I've landed all changed eligible to change that do not have dissenting votes. | 20:46 |
| JayF | Please take a look through open governance changes, especially PTL appointments. | 20:46 |
| spotz[m] | @jayf I think my invite is UTC I just mentally didn't change:) | 20:56 |
| spotz[m] | s/@jayf/JayF:/ | 20:56 |
| JayF | My 'downstream' is UK-based | 20:56 |
| JayF | so I have to remember; because the two weeks in the middle between their change and our change is purgatory lol | 20:56 |
| JayF | we ended up just cancelling the couple of weekly syncs we have instead of trying to figure out how to make it work :D | 20:57 |
| fungi | i take the dst/bst/eust transition weeks as an excuse to just skip meetings ;) | 21:08 |
| JayF | fungi: the way I said it sounds more like mutual respect and international cooperation and less like meeting dodging ;) | 21:24 |
| fungi | se, that's you. i just look for any excuse ;) | 21:25 |
| JayF | I didn't say what my motivations were for what I did. I said what my motivations were for the way I said it ;) | 21:25 |
| clarkb | there are two relatively straightforward solutions to the problem 1) either everyone has the same ics entry in their calendar so it auto adjusts for you or 2) use a specific timezone (like UTC) and then you acn follow that | 21:26 |
| JayF | Just like cancelling a 10-person 1-hour status meeting at a large tech company isn't "meeting avoidance" it's "an ad-hoc cost-savings measure, targeting salary misappropriation" ;) | 21:26 |
| clarkb | gerrit's community meeting was always described to me at 8am pacific. Except it is in the calendar with a european timzone... | 21:26 |
| JayF | clarkb: the problem is that only a sliver of the geeks at my downstream would have to interact with folks in other regions; that's why the cancel-during-the-purgatory weeks is an easy win for everyone | 21:27 |
| clarkb | ah | 21:27 |
| spotz[m] | When I have consistent meetings I get into a flow and when the flow is disrupted from extra meetings and/or time change I get mixed up | 21:28 |
| JayF | I guess that's changing though, G-Research just opened an office in Dallas, TX. | 21:31 |
| JayF | So we'll see! Maybe UTC will win the day! (I doubt it, somehow :D) | 21:31 |
| spotz[m] | So close and yet so far away:) | 21:32 |
| JayF | Dallas, TX might as well be as far away from me as London ;) | 21:32 |
| spotz[m] | It's 5 hours from me even | 21:32 |
| JayF | Given the way you said that, that implies you are a Texan :) | 21:33 |
| tonyb | We could make an ICS available from $somewhere akin to the ics files from https://meetings.opendev.org/ if that'd help ? | 21:53 |
| JayF | that is already there for TC meetings; that's what I was telling fungi is awkward to use in google (importing them is deep in settings; it's significantly faster to just re-create the meeting) | 21:53 |
| JayF | none of that is infra's fault; it's just the state of technology | 21:54 |
| clarkb | it is interesting that email it to a gmail account doesn't work | 21:58 |
| clarkb | works fine for fastmail that way | 21:59 |
| JayF | email it to a gmail account *does* work, it's difficult to just take a random ICS file from the internet and import it | 21:59 |
| JayF | basically they are optimized for (as I set before) -> ICS as email attachment is an appointment; ICS from a random webpage is a separate calendar you want to view separately or import (importing is like, 5 menus deep in settings last time I did it) | 22:00 |
| clarkb | I just grabbed an ics file off of meetings.opendev.org and emailed it to myself and that didn't work. Maybe it is because I sent it | 22:00 |
| JayF | hmmm interesting, I'd believe that too I think | 22:00 |
| tonyb | Yeah I was proposing we could create one for the board meetings. | 22:00 |
| JayF | OH! | 22:00 |
| JayF | Got my contexts mixed there :) | 22:00 |
| tonyb | I use generalted calendars often, it's like 2-3 clicks and a copy-paste of a URL. | 22:01 |
| tonyb | It's my fault for not being explicit in my context. It was obvious for me because I was just reading the scrollback | 22:01 |
| tonyb | JayF: If it's okay with you I can send you a partial screen capture for reference | 22:02 |
| tonyb | s/use generalted calendars/use generalted calendars in Google Calendar/ | 22:03 |
| JayF | tonyb: you can; but I'm not sweating it :D this is the sorta thing I usually don't have trouble managing but my todo list grew to an untenable size in October | 22:03 |
| JayF | tonyb: I'm taking my machete to it right now | 22:03 |
| JayF | (that todo list) | 22:03 |
| rosmaita | tonyb: are you still in minnesota time zone, are are you back in Oz? | 22:04 |
| tonyb | rosmaita: I'm in Chicago ATM | 22:05 |
| JayF | and this is the part where I admit to fungi that tonyb just showed me how, in one click, to do the import I was navigating like 5-6 clicks deep in google calendar to do before | 22:09 |
| JayF | thank you tonyb | 22:09 |
| clarkb | whats the secret? | 22:09 |
| JayF | the + sign beside other calendars | 22:09 |
| clarkb | ah nice | 22:10 |
| JayF | IMPORT # lets you add it to your primary calendar; downside will never update (this is what I always do; it is also available deep in settings) | 22:10 |
| JayF | FROM URL # lets it get added as an addl calendar; will update from the url; downside is that it's a separate calendar and shows up as a separate calendar to everything it syncs to (this is painful on my phone) | 22:10 |
| tonyb | JayF: If you were really "keen" you could write a reasonably trivial ics aggregator and then it'd only be one other calendar on you phone ... albeit a huge one ;P | 22:11 |
| JayF | I don't mind curating it a little bit honestly, I usually manually curate my calendar for the coming week in general anyway | 22:12 |
| JayF | to me that's almost a feature, so I can know/remember if I need to prep for anything | 22:12 |
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