| zaneb | links at https://governance.openstack.org/tc/#office-hours will convert time zones accurately for you | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| TheJulia | tonyb: I keep advocating to get rid of time zones... but some people have convinced me that there may be some value in them :\ | 00:52 |
| smcginnis | Let's start with DST | 00:53 |
| fungi | i also recommend switching to some manner of metric time while we're at it | 00:54 |
| smcginnis | And metric lengths. | 00:55 |
| fungi | and bonus points for something which handles relativistic calculations better | 00:55 |
| * fungi is not looking forward to remembering how to convert between terran and titan time | 00:56 | |
| tonyb | TheJulia :) | 00:57 |
| TheJulia | smcginnis: sold! | 00:58 |
| TheJulia | fungi: Eh, Sols are much more useful... they are what... only like 15 minutes 40-something seconds more than what we handle today... | 00:59 |
| smcginnis | tonyb: Welcome back, by the way. | 00:59 |
| tonyb | smcginnis: Thanks. | 00:59 |
| smcginnis | tonyb: Hope you had fun, because we are going to contact your management and recommend no long vacations for you again. :P | 01:00 |
| fungi | tc-members and community at large, looks like we're already into our office hour! | 01:01 |
| zaneb | o/ | 01:01 |
| fungi | and now... the silence begins ;) | 01:02 |
| tonyb | smcginnis: I did have a lot of fun. Now need to contact my management ... they seem to have come to the same conclusion themselves :/ | 01:02 |
| smcginnis | Might be time for a remodel. | 01:02 |
| smcginnis | tonyb: Hah | 01:02 |
| gmann | o/ | 01:03 |
| tonyb | So I have a couple of things if only the break the silence ;P | 01:03 |
| fungi | please proceed! | 01:03 |
| tonyb | What's needed on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/611511/ ? It seems to have a majority +1 does it need to sit for a bit befoer dhellmann or mnaser +W it? | 01:04 |
| TheJulia | fungi: just for that, we should talk... constantly. | 01:05 |
| * TheJulia looks | 01:05 | |
| tonyb | TheJulia: It's the "can we include train" resolution | 01:05 |
| TheJulia | ~2 more days up for review I believe | 01:06 |
| * TheJulia gauged that time window at a glance of the times | 01:06 | |
| TheJulia | s/times/dates/ | 01:06 |
| * TheJulia is all confused by dates and times again | 01:06 | |
| tonyb | TheJulia: okay I thought it might need to be something like that. | 01:07 |
| smcginnis | It hit majority on the 22nd I think? So is it 2 days after that happens? | 01:07 |
| tonyb | I guess I'll prepare the poll on my Monday with or without train | 01:08 |
| tonyb | which is really what I was trying to work out | 01:08 |
| smcginnis | tonyb: That would be good. I've had a couple folks asking when we would have a final T name. | 01:08 |
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| smcginnis | I think it's safe to include it. | 01:08 |
| * fungi suspects we already have a final t name, but we need to follow due process anyway | 01:09 | |
| tonyb | smcginnis: I'm not sure. I'll be done with my bit by the timem I leave for Berlin I don't know how long the tradmark stuff takes | 01:09 |
| tonyb | ... Actually fungi whom at the foundation shoudl I ping to make sure that's happening? | 01:10 |
| smcginnis | I hope we're safe from being confused with air conditioners - http://www.trane.com/Index.aspx | 01:10 |
| gmann | tonyb: we check trademark things after poll or during nomination ? | 01:10 |
| * smcginnis hasn't seen an aspx page in ages | 01:10 | |
| tonyb | gmann: I thought it was both. Kinda a sniff test befoere flagging potential issues, and then a comprehensive check once the results are in | 01:11 |
| TheJulia | given the timeline to summit, it might be sane for that check to begin prior to the poll closing for train just to be on the safe side... | 01:11 |
| zaneb | gmann: after poll | 01:11 |
| smcginnis | TheJulia: ++ | 01:11 |
| smcginnis | Would be really nice to know by then. | 01:11 |
| TheJulia | +++++ | 01:11 |
| tonyb | Yes Yes it would | 01:11 |
| clarkb | tonyb: lsell probably? | 01:11 |
| clarkb | tonyb: fungi or I can sort that but out | 01:12 |
| TheJulia | It would be a good thing to mention for the keynote if it could be wrapped quickly | 01:12 |
| fungi | yeah, it's been lsell in the past | 01:12 |
| tonyb | when will we know where the summit after Denver is? I'll get the ball rolling on the U name then | 01:12 |
| tonyb | Okay. I'll email her and CC you both | 01:12 |
| fungi | thanks! | 01:13 |
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| TheJulia | o/ lifeless | 01:13 |
| tonyb | lifeless: lives! | 01:13 |
| lifeless | Thank you, thank you. | 01:14 |
| smcginnis | :) | 01:14 |
| tonyb | I did have a sencond thing but I've decided I need to think more on it before brining it to the TC | 01:21 |
| TheJulia | tonyb: Are you sure, there seem to be a few of us around tonight | 01:23 |
| TheJulia | At least, around at this moment. | 01:23 |
| tonyb | TheJulia: Yeah. It isn't urgent and I need more time to think on it | 01:23 |
| * TheJulia slowly backs away from her terminal window that claims pip to be gone | 01:25 | |
| tonyb | TheJulia: hehe | 01:26 |
| fungi | there are at least 5/13 tc members who have chimed in | 01:26 |
| fungi | so don't feel like there are two few of us to get a preliminary read on something if you want to bring it up | 01:26 |
| fungi | s/two/too/ | 01:26 |
| TheJulia | fungi: re: train? | 01:26 |
| TheJulia | oh, yeah | 01:26 |
| fungi | though perhaps 5 is indeed two few (two short of a strict majority) depending on what you need | 01:27 |
| fungi | but for anything to get far enough to come to a vote it would need to happen in a governance review in gerrit anyway | 01:28 |
| tonyb | fungi, TheJulia: It isn't that I'm worried about attendance, it's more my opinion on what I need chnaged in the last 20'ish mins so I suspect it's too soon for me to keep up my end of an informed discussion | 01:29 |
| fungi | ahh | 01:30 |
| tonyb | started by saying I had a couple of things and wanted to explain why the 2nd thing evaporated ;P | 01:30 |
| fungi | well, find us in here when you're ready, and if you're looking for a critical mass then 15:00z thursday (which i guess is friday morning for you?) is the next office hour | 01:31 |
| fungi | no, wait, just late thursday night | 01:31 |
| tonyb | 1500 +1100 is 0200 Friday | 01:32 |
| * fungi is also terrible at timezones | 01:32 | |
| fungi | proof! ^ | 01:32 |
| tonyb | hehe | 01:32 |
| fungi | tuesday 08:00z is another option for office hour | 01:32 |
| fungi | er, 09:00z | 01:32 |
| fungi | i guess /topic already has it | 01:33 |
| tonyb | Yeah I can do that one if needed. | 01:33 |
| fungi | i keep forgetting that topic is there | 01:33 |
| tonyb | :) | 01:35 |
| TheJulia | At least the irc servers are in sync, otherwise the topic could be a myth | 01:36 |
| gmann | tonyb: we can bring 'Train' name patch in tomorrow office hour too where we can catch most of other tc also. | 01:50 |
| tonyb | gmann: Okay thanks. | 01:52 |
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| zaneb | it looks to me that mnaser hasn't had a chance to run the magic approvals script yet since dhellmann went on holiday. there's stuff even older than the release name thing that I believe is ready for approval | 01:57 |
| fungi | and i guess that's all for office hour #2 this week. thanks everyone! | 02:00 |
| tonyb | Thanks all | 02:05 |
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| gmann | thanks tonyb for taking care of poll hurdle. you should get free beer in summit for that :) | 02:14 |
| fungi | or bier | 02:14 |
| tonyb | gmann: You're welcome. I ahve to admit it was selfishly motivated in that I want to setup the next round of elections and to do that I need to know the series name | 02:16 |
| tonyb | gmann: but I'll take $beverage for being selfish ;P | 02:16 |
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| aspiers | so, how's it looking for the T release being officially named "Trains"? | 10:46 |
| aspiers | I've probably missed an election email about that | 10:47 |
| cdent | aspiers: there's been discussion of allowing Train as one of the voting options. The election hasn't happened yet. | 11:03 |
| aspiers | ah OK | 11:03 |
| cdent | See: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/611511/ | 11:03 |
| aspiers | cdent: thanks, have given a strong +1 | 11:12 |
| cdent | great | 11:12 |
| cdent | I think being able to vote for it is good, but doing it by fiat not so much | 11:12 |
| aspiers | funny that my internal OpenStack clock managed to pop this to the surface of my brain at just the right time | 11:12 |
| aspiers | agreed | 11:12 |
| cdent | there's somthing rather magical about internal openstack clocks | 11:13 |
| aspiers | apparently so. I began to notice mine a couple of cycles ago, when I started getting a sixth sense that it was about time to search the lists for announcements about submitting sessions | 11:14 |
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| clarkb | fwiw I think we added Grizzly to the vote list as well | 14:54 |
| zaneb | how many emails can you send to openstack-dev before getting throttled? I'm about to find out :) | 14:56 |
| smcginnis | clarkb: I think you're right. Before my time, but I remember talk that this wasn't the first time we've made an exception for a name the community wanted. | 14:57 |
| zaneb | clarkb, smcginnis: yes, it's the 'Waldon exception' documented on https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Release_Naming | 15:00 |
| smcginnis | "That exception was extended to other major landmarks and reference points." - I think we can call the train crossing a reference point. | 15:01 |
| fungi | zaneb: wow, that's going to be rather a lot of nearly identical e-mail messages, huh? | 15:03 |
| zaneb | 31 to be precise | 15:03 |
| fungi | oh, so not one for every single team at least | 15:04 |
| zaneb | the middle bit is different | 15:04 |
| zaneb | yeah, basically the main 'OpenStack' bucket on the map | 15:04 |
| zaneb | whew, done. | 15:18 |
| zaneb | apparently any throttling kicks in at a higher limit than 31 | 15:19 |
| zaneb | notmyname: finished my homework :D | 15:19 |
| fungi | i think the "throttling" is that a list moderator sees a lot of e-mail and decides to put your address into forced moderation queuing | 15:23 |
| fungi | i'm at least not aware of any automatic post throttling in mailman | 15:23 |
| smcginnis | The Should Heuristically Inspect Topic list? | 15:24 |
| notmyname | zaneb: ?? | 15:27 |
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| lbragstad | does the TC have a specific time or place to go through project health feedback individuals have collected from projects? | 16:00 |
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| smcginnis | lbragstad: We haven't so far. | 16:00 |
| cdent | just at the ptg | 16:01 |
| lbragstad | ok | 16:01 |
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| cdent | lbragstad: I reckon doing it early and often, if there's anything of interest, is probably wise | 16:02 |
| cdent | I'm worried about over-formalising the process, though | 16:02 |
| lbragstad | ok - yeah i'm just noticing some patterns and wonder if/when we go through them | 16:03 |
| cdent | now? ;) | 16:03 |
| lbragstad | i'm wondering if we need to provide a little more guidance around using the foundation as a resource | 16:04 |
| lbragstad | a couple projects have socialized not being able to get feedback | 16:04 |
| lbragstad | from users or operators, which is frustrating for them if they've spent 3 cycles working on a features and they don't know if they are on the right track | 16:05 |
| lbragstad | at the same time, it doesn't look like some of them have secured project update sessions (which can be due to limited availability anyway) | 16:05 |
| cdent | we've talked about "foundation as a resource" troubles quite a lot | 16:05 |
| lbragstad | oh - ok, i could be behind on those discussions then | 16:06 |
| cdent | sometimes it is that people don't know what they can get | 16:06 |
| cdent | sometimes it is that they want something that the foundation doesn't provide (in this case, mostly a hammer to beat contributing companies into doing something, _anything_, to help them out) | 16:06 |
| lbragstad | i'm hearing a bit more of the former | 16:07 |
| lbragstad | but i can see both for sure | 16:07 |
| cdent | I agree with you that it is _we_ that should be providing better pointers to the info | 16:09 |
| zaneb | lbragstad: limited availability of sessions or limited availability of people to go to the Summit and present? | 16:09 |
| lbragstad | both, technically i suppose | 16:09 |
| lbragstad | but more so the first | 16:09 |
| lbragstad | limited availability on sessions results in not every project getting an update | 16:10 |
| lbragstad | but once you have a session, you can only fit so many people in a room | 16:10 |
| smcginnis | Most of the feedback I've been getting so far has mostly been lamenting the continued decline in participation. | 16:10 |
| lbragstad | i've gotten a fair bit of that, too | 16:11 |
| lbragstad | but i've also gotten a couple like "we're doing stuff we think is important, but we're not sure what users think" | 16:11 |
| clarkb | (fwiw the user survey results come out at the berlin summit and aprice is the person to talk to foundation side about that) | 16:12 |
| lbragstad | naturally - feedback sessions at the forum, project updates, and the user survey come to mind as ways to get feedback | 16:12 |
| clarkb | not sure if everyone caught that when TheJulia asked | 16:12 |
| lbragstad | awesome - thanks clarkb | 16:12 |
| smcginnis | I'd also encourage them to post to the openstack-ops mailing list if they want to get end user feedback on direction. | 16:13 |
| smcginnis | Hopefully there will be more visibility once MLs are merged. | 16:13 |
| lbragstad | that's another good point | 16:13 |
| cdent | yeah, I think that will help and may also help to drive a bit of a change in our attitudes to contribution | 16:14 |
| cdent | we should be more focused on coordinating causual contribution, not "doing stuff we think is important" in isolation | 16:15 |
| cdent | (not that we should solely do one or the other, but the balance is out for our level of maturity) | 16:15 |
| lbragstad | maybe adding a section about ways to collect feedback to https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/ptl.html would help? | 16:16 |
| smcginnis | That could be useful to collect suggestions there. Especially for new PTLs that are stepping in to the role fresh and don't have some of the background and experience as some others. | 16:18 |
| lbragstad | yeah | 16:18 |
| TheJulia | ++ | 16:20 |
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| jaypipes | zaneb: hey, I was hoping to get a few more emails to openstack-dev today. think you can help me out? | 16:49 |
| zaneb | jaypipes: no, my arm hurts | 16:50 |
| jaypipes | zaneb: :P | 16:50 |
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| notmyname | zaneb: oh my. my email caught up. now I see what you mean by doing your homework :-) | 17:15 |
| zaneb | :) | 17:15 |
| notmyname | zaneb: this is great. I love how they're all personalized. that must have taken a lot of time, but I really appreciate it. I suspect that personalization will result in a lot of feedback. I know I'm more excited about sharing it in the swift community because it's personalized | 17:21 |
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| zaneb | notmyname: hope so! thanks for the suggestion :) | 17:21 |
| jroll | sadly in gmail they sort into one thread, so I only see the horizon tag in the subject :( | 17:24 |
| zaneb | jroll: that's disappointing :( | 17:25 |
| jroll | I wonder if it ignores the tags for threading | 17:25 |
| zaneb | I guess next time anyone tries this they need to explicitly mention the team name in the subject, not just as a tag | 17:26 |
| zaneb | jroll: yeah, I bet it assumes that the mailing list inserted those tags | 17:26 |
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| zaneb | jroll: my gmail also has it as a single thread, but thunderbird displays it correctly | 17:28 |
| zaneb | the moral of the story is... never use gmail | 17:28 |
| jroll | interesting :) | 17:28 |
| jroll | my muscle memory says keep using gmail :P | 17:28 |
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| lbragstad | my gmail label for keystone picked up the keystone-specific thread | 17:35 |
| zaneb | yeah, hopefully most gmail users should have a filter+label for projects they care about | 17:55 |
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| openstackgerrit | Zane Bitter proposed openstack/governance master: Resolution on keeping up with Python 3 releases https://review.openstack.org/613145 | 19:32 |
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