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| openstackgerrit | Dmitry Tantsur proposed openstack/openstacksdk master: CI: add ironic-python-agent-builder to the ironic job https://review.opendev.org/691630 | 08:42 |
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| dtantsur | mordred: ^^ | 08:43 |
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| openstackgerrit | Shogo Saito proposed openstack/openstacksdk master: Adding basic implementation for Accelerator(Cyborg) https://review.opendev.org/679914 | 10:16 |
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| openstackgerrit | Riccardo Pittau proposed openstack/openstacksdk master: Add reset_interfaces argument to patch_node https://review.opendev.org/689414 | 10:58 |
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| openstackgerrit | Riccardo Pittau proposed openstack/openstacksdk master: Add reset_interfaces argument to patch_node https://review.opendev.org/689414 | 14:15 |
| openstackgerrit | Riccardo Pittau proposed openstack/openstacksdk master: Increase dogpile version for Py3.7 compatibility https://review.opendev.org/691680 | 14:18 |
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| openstackgerrit | Marc Gariépy (mgariepy) proposed openstack/python-openstackclient master: [DOC]Fix openstack command for removing router https://review.opendev.org/691375 | 14:58 |
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| efried | dtroyer: So as I'm working through these plugin docs issues, it has been in the back of my head: | 16:18 |
| efried | Should the plugin projects build osc in a gate job, so they don't break it? | 16:18 |
| efried | or maybe they already do, /me looks... | 16:18 |
| efried | ah, I guess that's what openstackclient-plugin-jobs would be for? ... | 16:20 |
| efried | ugh, that guy doesn't require novaclient or osc-placement. | 16:22 |
| efried | also, it doesn't appear to build docs, which would be a useful add. | 16:22 |
| efried | ...and it's marked as non-voting by default. | 16:22 |
| efried | ...and the only thing it does right now is check for duplicate entry points. | 16:27 |
| efried | okay, so tldr some of the infrastructure is there, but it hasn't really been fleshed out. | 16:27 |
| dtroyer | efried: exactly. that was all supposed to come together in the openstackclient repo and never did | 16:28 |
| dtroyer | IIRC stevemar was organizing all of that when IBM lured him to the dark side… | 16:28 |
| efried | dtroyer: those IBM guys... | 16:29 |
| efried | dtroyer: so what's next here? | 16:29 |
| efried | like, if I want to do a thing (like make sure python-xclient doesn't break python-openstackclient's doc build with a bogus option help) it would be nice if I didn't have to drag that entire openstackclient infra effort into daylight first. | 16:30 |
| dtroyer | efried: I think the cross-project plugin stuff still belongs in openstackclient, its purpose is to provide that integration for users, makes sense for the knowledge of plugins to all be there. | 16:30 |
| efried | put another way: I'd like to be able to contribute without signing up for fixing the world. | 16:30 |
| dtroyer | exactly, which is why I'm not insisting that it be moved before improving what we do have | 16:30 |
| dtroyer | just keep that in mind so we don't break that possibility somehow | 16:31 |
| efried | okay, so... | 16:31 |
| efried | I'm not actually going to be able to use that openstackclient job, since that project isn't building plugin docs yet | 16:32 |
| efried | so I would need to need to create a new job in python-openstackclient | 16:32 |
| efried | ...that installs all the plugins and builds its docs. | 16:32 |
| efried | well | 16:33 |
| efried | I guess I'll ask you: of those two alternatives, which seems like the path of least resistance? | 16:33 |
| dtroyer | I don't really like that either… and this is all one reason I wasn't involved in it in the first place, I didn't want osc to be an integration bottleneck | 16:33 |
| efried | mm, especially if the goal is to add $job to each of the 20+ plugin client projects, it would be better for it to be the real, long-term-plan job. | 16:34 |
| efried | dtroyer: so was the eventual goal to somehow have the osc doc build moved from python-openstackclient to openstackclient? | 16:35 |
| dtroyer | if there is a lot to build, let's just do it in the final place. | 16:36 |
| dtroyer | There was never a final goal to have a single doc, maybe a single index pointing to the individual ones, but the OSc dosc themselves should only cover what is in the repo | 16:36 |
| efried | well... | 16:37 |
| dtroyer | the whole point of plugins was supposed to be freedom (for OSC) from having to gatekeep any of this | 16:37 |
| efried | not sure I agree with that from a UX standpoint. | 16:37 |
| efried | I mean, I understand from a project management perspective. | 16:37 |
| efried | but as a consumer of the docs, I would like to be able to navigate around the plugin docs without having to use the browser's Back button liberally. | 16:38 |
| efried | Guess that's not the end of the world. | 16:38 |
| dtroyer | when there is less than a single half-time person maintaining something, this is what you get. If someone has the time to build an integrated all plugins-and-everything doc, go for it. I don't have that luxury any more. | 16:38 |
| efried | well, that's what I've done. | 16:38 |
| * dtroyer glares at that pile of 3rd party CI waiting in the corner | 16:38 | |
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| efried | https://docs.openstack.org/python-openstackclient/latest/cli/plugin-commands/index.html <== all of these links point to in-repo (python-openstackclient) docs built via autoprogram-cliff of the registered entrypoints of the plugins. | 16:39 |
| dtroyer | ok, cool. I'll suggest that openstacklcient is the right repo for osc+plugins stuff, | 16:40 |
| dtroyer | yup, that was intended to be moved | 16:40 |
| efried | (all but the last five, which just need https://review.opendev.org/#/c/690387/ which is waiting for three final u-c bumps) | 16:40 |
| efried | And should the rest of the python-openstackclient documentation also be moved? | 16:40 |
| dtroyer | no, unless you would do that for all of the plugins too. | 16:41 |
| efried | sorry, "do that" what? | 16:41 |
| dtroyer | move all of their docs | 16:41 |
| dtroyer | python-openstackclient as functioanlity and docs for that in one place | 16:41 |
| efried | well, the docs at $plugin are a separate thing. | 16:41 |
| dtroyer | and openstackclient is the integration point, not python-openstackclient | 16:41 |
| dtroyer | this is such a mess because that transition was not completed and isn't a high enough priority (until now) for anyone to spend time on it | 16:42 |
| dtroyer | this is life in a project that nobody really wants to pay for… "clients are not important" — a (former) OSF Platinum Board Member | 16:44 |
| efried | okay, it's not a super high priority, I just came across it because I was trying to get at some plugin docs and couldn't find them in the first few obvious places I looked. What exists now is a dramatic improvement, but it's brittle. | 16:44 |
| efried | Before, $plugin could merge a broken option help and nobody would be the wiser | 16:45 |
| efried | like, literally nobody, because those weren't being used *anywhere* afaict. | 16:45 |
| efried | Not even sure if they were being used to build the CLI helps. Maybe they were... | 16:45 |
| efried | but those obv don't have the same rules as the sphinx-built docs. | 16:45 |
| efried | anyway, now if $plugin merges and releases a bogus option help, python-openstackclient will start to fail its doc build. | 16:46 |
| efried | so it would be nice to prevent that rather than having to go fix it after the fact. | 16:46 |
| efried | esp because the rate of change in python-openstackclient is so low, it could be ages before anyone even notices the breakage. | 16:46 |
| dtroyer | again, this is why I did not want to be in the integration business | 16:47 |
| efried | understood | 16:47 |
| dtroyer | at least not in the python-openstackclient repo | 16:47 |
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| efried | can you just bear with me a little bit longer and help me understand what the ideal utopian future state of this openstackclient repo would be? | 16:48 |
| efried | and then I'll just take the ball and run it wherever I think will get us closer, if probably not actually all the way there. | 16:49 |
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| dtroyer | sure: anything and everything that should be handled across all (self-identified) plugins and OSC itself should happen there… docs, co-installability testing, whatever. Even registering their existence. Definition of the jobs so plugins (and OSC) can run the jobs to do the checking as those projects decide they care. This is meant to be opt-in, as I don't enforce the OSC command structure standards on plugins (I lost that argument too), we'll t | 16:50 |
| openstackgerrit | Riccardo Pittau proposed openstack/openstacksdk master: Add reset_interfaces argument to patch_node https://review.opendev.org/689414 | 16:53 |
| efried | dtroyer: before I go asking the docs folks, any idea why openstackclient docs aren't being published? I see a doc/ dir with appropriate requirements, config, and an index.rst; and the .zuul.yaml lists the build-openstack-docs-pti template | 17:06 |
| dtroyer | efried: it may have never been set up, that repo wasn't really used until I released OSC 4 a couple of months ago | 17:07 |
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| openstackgerrit | Eric Fried proposed openstack/openstackclient master: Update doc index links (for storyboard etc) https://review.opendev.org/691728 | 17:37 |
| efried | dtroyer: I'm gonna see if this builds docs at least in zuul. If it does, I think I'm going to copy all (or most?) of the docs from python-openstackclient into it. Then I can beef up that zuul job to build docs as well as do that dup check. Then I can start spraying that job into all the plugin projects. | 17:38 |
| efried | even if the docs never get published, that job running in zuul will allow us to gate and detect future option help breakages. | 17:39 |
| dtroyer | efried: ok, thanks for spending time on this | 17:40 |
| efried | eventually if the docs do get published, we can stuff redirects in python-openstackclient, but we would probably still want *some* of the docs available there, so I'm not going to get real excited about that yet. Problem for future-us. | 17:40 |
| efried | yahyoubetcha. | 17:40 |
| efried | ...seems to have worked fine | 17:43 |
| efried | okay, it's not publishing because it's using the build-...-pti job, not the publish-...-pti job. | 17:50 |
| efried | ...which actually could be useful for our purposes here. Means I could make the docs build gate plugin projects without actually having to worry about whether the docs are pretty or correct. | 17:50 |
| efried | dtroyer: that said, if you *do* want to start publishing those, it would be trivial at this point. Do you want me to pull that trigger? | 17:51 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/openstacksdk master: Switch to Ussuri jobs https://review.opendev.org/691158 | 18:29 |
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| dtroyer | efried: I'm not sure I want to publish docs outside of where they are maintained. ie, a single consolidated doc requires someone to curate it and I'm not signing up for that. I understand the ux sux but adding anything beyond pointers to the individual pieces eventually makes a worse experience when it gets stale | 19:26 |
| dtroyer | I've always found bad docs more frustrating than no docs FWIW | 19:27 |
| efried | dtroyer: that's not really the question at the moment. | 19:27 |
| dtroyer | than I'm misunderstanding it | 19:27 |
| efried | Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought the eventual goal was to maintain the osc docs in the openstackclient project, not python-openstackclient. | 19:27 |
| efried | this would be a step in that direction, though not getting us all the way there yet. | 19:28 |
| efried | do you mean maintaining docs outside of where the corresponding code is maintained? | 19:28 |
| dtroyer | no, the OSC docs belong with the code, just like the plugin docs | 19:28 |
| dtroyer | a unified guide of some sort would be great, but that's what we don't have the capacity to do, very similar to the overall docs efforts | 19:28 |
| efried | okay, so here's my current strategy: | 19:31 |
| efried | - Copy the python-openstackclient docs to the openstackclient project. Keep the build-...-pti, don't publish yet. | 19:31 |
| efried | - Beef up the openstackclient-plugin-jobs template to include building those docs ^. | 19:31 |
| efried | - Make sure all the plugin projects gate on openstack-plugin-jobs. This prevents them from merging patches with broken option helps. | 19:31 |
| dtroyer | I don't want to move docs from python-openstackclient to openstackclient | 19:32 |
| dtroyer | unless they are bits talking about the entire collection of things. leave the individual command stuff with the commands | 19:33 |
| efried | Right. | 19:33 |
| efried | The next (future, I'm not planning on doing this any time soon) steps would be: | 19:33 |
| efried | - Scrub the docs in both projects to keep the appropriate ones in the appropriate project. Add redirects from any python-openstackclient ones we remove. (No redirects from openstackclient are necessary because never published.) | 19:33 |
| efried | - Start publishing openstackclient docs. | 19:33 |
| efried | but for now the easiest thing to achieve the goal (which is being able to prevent broken plugin docs from merging) is to do a full copy. | 19:34 |
| dtroyer | can you do it the same way you do the plugins today? I don't think you are planning to copy those docs too, right? | 19:34 |
| efried | That's exactly what I'm doing, albeit with a slightly bigger hammer. | 19:35 |
| dtroyer | ok, when you say copy, I read check-in, is that incorrect? | 19:35 |
| efried | I could pick and choose which docs to copy over, to achieve the sole goal of preventing the breakages, but that would be harder and the resulting docs would be not necessarily cohesive (not that that really matters at this stage). | 19:35 |
| efried | I meancp -r python-openstackclient/doc/source openstackclient/doc/source | 19:36 |
| efried | git add -A | 19:36 |
| efried | git commit | 19:36 |
| dtroyer | you are doing that with all plugins too? | 19:36 |
| efried | the plugin "docs" that are part of python-openstackclient are just a couple dozen pages with one autoprogram-cliff line in them. That automatically sucks in the docs from the respective projects. | 19:37 |
| efried | so those are coming along, in the same referential-y way. | 19:37 |
| efried | example: | 19:38 |
| efried | this https://opendev.org/openstack/python-openstackclient/raw/branch/master/doc/source/cli/plugin-commands/sahara.rst | 19:38 |
| efried | produces this https://docs.openstack.org/python-openstackclient/latest/cli/plugin-commands/sahara.html | 19:38 |
| dtroyer | it seems like way overkill to just copy it all only to filter it someday. having two copies out there _will_ confuse someone even if we don't publish it | 19:40 |
| dtroyer | if you fix zuul for me I'll copy the structure over tonight… | 19:41 |
| efried | "the structure"? | 19:42 |
| efried | and "fix zuul"? | 19:42 |
| efried | If you strongly prefer not to have two copies, I can make a hacked-up page that's hidden from view that just does the auto doc generation stuff. It would still build (and thus break if plugins f'ed up their opt helps) but we would have no duplication. | 19:44 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/openstacksdk master: CI: add ironic-python-agent-builder to the ironic job https://review.opendev.org/691630 | 19:57 |
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| openstackgerrit | Eric Fried proposed openstack/python-openstackclient master: Use autoprogram-cliff for remaining plugin docs https://review.opendev.org/690387 | 20:36 |
| openstackgerrit | Eric Fried proposed openstack/openstackclient master: Copy in python-openstackclient docs https://review.opendev.org/691750 | 20:37 |
| openstackgerrit | Eric Fried proposed openstack/openstackclient master: Add docs build to openstackclient-plugin-jobs template https://review.opendev.org/691751 | 20:37 |
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| openstackgerrit | Eric Fried proposed openstack/openstackclient master: Copy in python-openstackclient docs https://review.opendev.org/691750 | 20:46 |
| openstackgerrit | Eric Fried proposed openstack/openstackclient master: Add docs build to openstackclient-plugin-jobs template https://review.opendev.org/691751 | 20:46 |
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| efried | dtroyer: Update: | 21:00 |
| efried | - those reqs bumps merged, so this patch ought to be ready for review (python-openstackclient, autodocs the last five plugins): https://review.opendev.org/#/c/690387/ | 21:00 |
| efried | - I pushed up the openstackclient series above, which | 21:00 |
| efried | - updates the index https://review.opendev.org/691728 | 21:00 |
| efried | - copies over all the docs from python-openstackclient https://review.opendev.org/691750 | 21:00 |
| efried | - tries to make the openstack-plugin-jobs template build docs (but I did it way wrong, need to rework) https://review.opendev.org/691751 | 21:00 |
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| efried | oh, and trying to do autoprogram-cliff:: openstack doesn't work. It needs to match the entry point exactly. | 21:02 |
| efried | the granularity is accomplished via that :command: syntax - but is optional. | 21:02 |
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| openstackgerrit | Eric Fried proposed openstack/python-openstackclient master: WIP: neutron: autogenerate docs https://review.opendev.org/691767 | 22:31 |
| efried | dtroyer: FYI, I'm at least starting to go through and replace hardcoded content with autogen ^ | 22:31 |
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