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| klindgren | Does anyone use: AggregateImagePropertiesIsolation? | 17:52 |
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| klindgren | because trying to use it - and it appears to just fail - horribly. Seems like if you create an aggregate with an image property and single host, The filter it still returns everything. Unless you tag everything else with no the exact property you are looking for | 18:17 |
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| klindgren | mriedem - based upon: https://docs.openstack.org/ocata/config-reference/compute/schedulers.html#aggregateimagepropertiesisolation seems like the scheduler filter doesn't work correctly. In order to make it work correctly in the example, need to add a os=linux to an aggregate with all the other hosts in it. Otherwise if its missing the os=parameter all the other hosts pass and are still valid boot targets. | 18:23 |
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| mriedem | klindgren: https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1684261 | 18:27 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1684261 in openstack-manuals "AggregateImagePropertiesIsolation example doesn't actually indicate how it works" [Low,Confirmed] - Assigned to Alexandra Settle (alexandra-settle) | 18:27 |
| mriedem | i had reported a duplicate bug against that doc at some point | 18:27 |
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| mriedem | i see your case isn't in that bug report, i'll add it | 18:28 |
| mriedem | i think there is also an open spec about this filter | 18:29 |
| klindgren | basciallly trying to add specific hosts for windows. so all windows tagged images end up on those hosts. But the way the filter is coded, hosts that match the 'os=windows' property are passed, but hosts that also are *missing* the 'os' property in the aggregate are also passed. | 18:30 |
| klindgren | So they only way to make that filter work is to tag all the other hosts as basically not windows. | 18:31 |
| mriedem | klindgren: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/381912/ | 18:31 |
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| mriedem | see if that's what you're looking for | 18:32 |
| klindgren | yes - that would appear to be so | 18:36 |
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| mriedem | ok, that stalled out after the pike ptg | 18:41 |
| mriedem | johnthetubaguy was looking for more use case information in the spec, and i thought sean-k-mooney was going to follow up on it since he was proposing a few specs that sounded like duplicates | 18:42 |
| mriedem | pavel is no longer working on openstack so someone else would have to pick this up | 18:42 |
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| mnaser | mriedem an interesting use case for that sort of thing is licensing. certain products (i.e. windows) can be licensed on the hypervisor level so if you constraint your VMs to those hypervisors, it can drive costs down (rather than having to license all your hypervisors, you only do it for a subset) | 20:02 |
| mriedem | mnaser: yes that's the classic example i've always heard | 20:03 |
| mnaser | i didnt go through the review but a quick ctrl+f didn't seem to have had that brought up | 20:03 |
| mriedem | you're right, it doesn't | 20:04 |
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| mihalis68 | are the older openstack doc sets archived anywhere when they drop off http://docs.openstack.org ? | 20:05 |
| mihalis68 | I need docs.openstack.org/liberty but it's not there any more | 20:05 |
| mihalis68 | we run liberty... so sue me | 20:05 |
| mriedem | mihalis68: this is the repo http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/openstack-manuals/ | 20:06 |
| mriedem | it has a liberty-eol tag | 20:06 |
| mriedem | so you could build the docs from that tag yourself if you wanted | 20:06 |
| mriedem | i think it's just tox -e docs | 20:06 |
| rockyg | And I think that's what you'll have to do. So, save them once you build them. | 20:07 |
| mihalis68 | simply infuriting | 20:07 |
| mihalis68 | infuriating | 20:07 |
| rockyg | Yah. | 20:07 |
| mihalis68 | thanks for the answers by the way | 20:07 |
| rockyg | The other place you *might* find them is on the wayback machine | 20:08 |
| rockyg | internet archives | 20:08 |
| mihalis68 | yah, thought of that. Simple googling for wayback machine docs.openstack.org/liberty didn't find it | 20:09 |
| mihalis68 | wayback machine has it. Thanks! | 20:12 |
| mihalis68 | turns out the docs weren't very useful for the case I'm looking at, but at least I found the Liberty docs | 20:12 |
| mihalis68 | I am sure retiring docs is official policy, but I think it smells | 20:12 |
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| mihalis68 | I'll fiddle around with trying to build them myself later, that's a great idea too | 20:13 |
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| rockyg | good luck with that! | 20:15 |
| mihalis68 | :) | 20:17 |
| mihalis68 | surely this must come up a lot : "Hi I need the docs for this version of openstack we run in production, where has it gone" "openstack.org : sorry, no can haz, you are DOING IT WRONG" | 20:18 |
| rockyg | Devs don't see any problem building anything from a label. They do it in their sleep. Doesn't the rest of the world? | 20:19 |
| mihalis68 | why have the docs on openstack.org at all then? :) | 20:19 |
| mihalis68 | I mean, it sstill has mitaka, what's the point? run off master or DIE | 20:20 |
| rockyg | Well, it's considered part of the support. Support ends at EOL, so *all* support ends except for people on IRC, and mailing lists and ask.openstack.org, and,.... | 20:21 |
| mihalis68 | yeah, Liberty is "EOL" | 20:21 |
| mihalis68 | that's nice | 20:21 |
| rockyg | At least the devs have sympathy for you ;-) | 20:21 |
| mihalis68 | I'm hiring devs now. I am going to ask them if they were involved in this particular decision JUST YOU WAIT | 20:22 |
| mihalis68 | kidding around now, but this is a real issue in my view | 20:22 |
| rockyg | Until the companies either supplying the distros or the companies using the distros decide to dedicate some engineering time to keep releases alive longer, it's moot. No bodies to do it. | 20:23 |
| mihalis68 | I don't need them to be alive. I need them to put the docs somewhere like "old" instead of deleting them | 20:23 |
| mihalis68 | that's not a lot to ask | 20:23 |
| rockyg | Agreed. Maybe we can bring that up to the TC and/or foundation. Like docs.OpenStack.org/archive | 20:24 |
| rockyg | not a bad thing to get them to consider. | 20:25 |
| mihalis68 | I simply cannot be the first person to complain about this | 20:25 |
| mihalis68 | btw we kinda do pay for this. We pay canonical for support and they have contributors and we are on a supported LTS still, so... | 20:25 |
| rockyg | No. happens at least twice a year, likely more. | 20:25 |
| mihalis68 | thanks for the info | 20:25 |
| mihalis68 | since we pay canonical, would it work to say "we want older documentation sets left online and accessible, even if not "supported"? | 20:26 |
| mihalis68 | to them I mean? | 20:26 |
| rockyg | So, check to see if Canonical has the old docs. They should. Since you pay them for support and the support is for *Liberty* | 20:26 |
| mihalis68 | well everyone has access to the files | 20:26 |
| mihalis68 | I'm talking specifically about them continuing to be published in a nice easy to find predictable place i.e. the /archive you mentioned | 20:27 |
| mihalis68 | I suppose it's part of a larger issue really. To be honest, the idea that Liberty is EOL is absurd | 20:27 |
| mihalis68 | I know I am directly speaking against openstack accepted policy, but so be it | 20:27 |
| rockyg | Yup. But the big vendors don't seem to want to upstream their fixes beyond the current EOL, so they don't put devs on the upstream maintenance. | 20:28 |
| rockyg | No. Like I said, the discussion comes up in the community every few months. I think the archive thing may be a way to get support. From Liberty, on the code has been stable enough that the foundation hasn't had to force people to upgrade | 20:31 |
| mihalis68 | I will see what my Canonical POC thinks. He is currently full-time in my team and we are on ubuntu trusty (14.04), OpenStack Liberty and we pay them for support | 20:31 |
| mihalis68 | thanks for the all the info | 20:31 |
| mihalis68 | I will try to report back if anything comes of this | 20:31 |
| rockyg | Yeah. The docs should be somewhere in their support portal | 20:31 |
| rockyg | Thanks! | 20:31 |
| mihalis68 | sure I can probably learn to build the docs, but it doesn't help the next person so much | 20:31 |
| rockyg | There should at a minimum be something on the docs page to say how to get older docs. | 20:32 |
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| mihalis68 | by the way, I know it was probably discussed as "force people to upgrade" but that's laughable | 20:34 |
| mihalis68 | the foundation had no leverage over us using Kilo in some places up until like 6 months ago | 20:34 |
| mihalis68 | unless force means "make life shitty" | 20:34 |
| mihalis68 | I feel like the operators need to assert their rights a bit more | 20:35 |
| mihalis68 | but it's not really through the foundation, it's through our vendors | 20:35 |
| mihalis68 | so ... yes, I am going to politely kick canonical about this | 20:35 |
| rockyg | It's a mindset. I was stunned when I realized that it was a revelation to some devs that operators do not consider Continuous integration and deployment a viable operations approach. | 20:35 |
| rockyg | no, the force was the facct that the code was shitty enough to want to get the new stuff :-) | 20:36 |
| rockyg | With support, you get access to the Ubuntu KnowledgeBase. If they have that, they should also have to docs. | 20:38 |
| mihalis68 | It's not that I don't consider it viable, it's that we have to start somewhere and then you end up making design decisions that can become impediments. For example, we use nova-network right now | 20:38 |
| rockyg | Oh. Ouch. Yeah. There's a cinder developer, a very good one, who couldn't get a neutron install to work until Newton. No problem with nova-network. and it was just a little three node lab install. | 20:39 |
| mihalis68 | yes we need to get to neutron, we know this, but it will take real engineering work to get there. Meanwhile we are in produciton with openstack | 20:39 |
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| rockyg | Yeah. I hear you. I've done production ops. Nothing rolls out without a rollback, extensive testing and lots of sweat and rebuilds in the lab. | 20:41 |
| rockyg | Unless you're Google. Then you patch the production DB on the fly. | 20:41 |
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| klindgren | or openstack #norollbacks | 20:48 |
| mihalis68 | I wonder what percentage of production openstack deployments are on a version that has had its docs stricken from docs.openstack.org | 20:51 |
| mihalis68 | that would be an interesting stat | 20:52 |
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| rocky_g | klindgren, it's just wipe the machine and retore from backups ;-) | 20:58 |
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| serverascode | is this mirantis mcp thing not going to be open source? anyone know? kinda a weird question | 21:00 |
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| jamespd | klindgren: We have a custom filter for image property isolation that we use in prod for 'windows-instances-only'. We tag official windows images with 'os=windows' and they will only get scheduled to hypervisors in a particular host aggregate. | 23:29 |
| jamespd | We will need to update it soon because currently, it prevents non-windows instances from being scheduled on hypervisors in the 'windows' host aggregate. | 23:31 |
| jamespd | yay, licensing! | 23:31 |
| klindgren | jamespd, yea- Thats basically what we want to do.. except the default filter fails to work unless everything is tagged with the os property. | 23:32 |
| klindgren | IE some hosts for windows need to be tagged with os=windows and the rest needs to be tagged with os=linux,freebsd | 23:33 |
| jamespd | http://paste.openstack.org/show/613146/ | 23:38 |
| jamespd | klindgren: ^^ this is our setup | 23:38 |
| jamespd | We will need to split it into two filters, I think... we want to be able to allow os=linux or os='', in situations where we want to use windows hypervisors as burst capacity. | 23:40 |
| mgagne | our setup: https://gist.github.com/mgagne/7e1376b8f5260f1add73549412f5ba83 | 23:45 |
| mgagne | and my lame attempt back then at trying to explain how the proposed implementation for AggregateImagePropertiesIsolation fails to do its job... https://review.openstack.org/#/c/56420/ | 23:49 |
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| jamespd | neat. I'll have a read after I stop crying about Stack Clash. | 23:54 |
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