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| mriedem | jaypipes: you'll likely need to remind me tomorrow as well | 00:07 |
|---|---|---|
| jaypipes | mriedem: sure, no worries. | 00:07 |
| mriedem | jaypipes: btw, the summit schedulers are going to hate us | 00:08 |
| mriedem | should have a presentation about how the summit scheduling is like the nova scheduler | 00:08 |
| mriedem | retries aplenty | 00:08 |
| jaypipes | heh, yeah :( | 00:09 |
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| jaypipes | efried: sorry for delay. finally done with review on your service cat patch. | 00:22 |
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| jaypipes | efried: and now it's beer thirty I'm afraid :) | 00:23 |
| jaypipes | ciao all. | 00:23 |
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| openstackgerrit | Takashi NATSUME proposed openstack/nova master: api-ref: Example verification for servers-actions.inc https://review.openstack.org/454565 | 00:55 |
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| openstackgerrit | Artom Lifshitz proposed openstack/nova master: Plumbing for tagged nic attachment https://review.openstack.org/415622 | 01:03 |
| openstackgerrit | Artom Lifshitz proposed openstack/nova master: Delete nic metadata when detaching interface https://review.openstack.org/435387 | 01:03 |
| openstackgerrit | Artom Lifshitz proposed openstack/nova master: Libvirt support for tagged volume attachment https://review.openstack.org/418100 | 01:03 |
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| openstackgerrit | Artom Lifshitz proposed openstack/nova master: Delete disk metadata when detaching volume https://review.openstack.org/435082 | 01:03 |
| openstackgerrit | Artom Lifshitz proposed openstack/nova master: Plumbing for tagged volume attachment https://review.openstack.org/391941 | 01:04 |
| openstackgerrit | Artom Lifshitz proposed openstack/nova master: API support for tagged device attachment https://review.openstack.org/376021 | 01:04 |
| openstackgerrit | Artom Lifshitz proposed openstack/nova master: Libvirt support for tagged nic attachment https://review.openstack.org/415520 | 01:04 |
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| openstackgerrit | fengzhr proposed openstack/nova master: Modify the description of flat_injected in nova.conf https://review.openstack.org/458789 | 01:24 |
| openstackgerrit | Matt Riedemann proposed openstack/python-novaclient master: 2.45: createImage/createBackup image_id is in response body https://review.openstack.org/457008 | 01:27 |
| openstackgerrit | Matt Riedemann proposed openstack/python-novaclient master: 2.44: Deprecate multinic/floatingIP actions and os-virtual-interfaces https://review.openstack.org/459859 | 01:27 |
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| openstackgerrit | Steven Webster proposed openstack/nova master: Race condition between audit and migrate/resize revert https://review.openstack.org/400995 | 02:25 |
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| openstackgerrit | Huan Xie proposed openstack/nova master: WIP: XenAPI use os-xenapi v2 in nova https://review.openstack.org/453493 | 03:01 |
| openstackgerrit | Zhenyu Zheng proposed openstack/nova master: Send out notifications when instance tags changed https://review.openstack.org/459923 | 03:02 |
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| openstackgerrit | Takashi NATSUME proposed openstack/nova master: Enable cold migration with target host(1/2) https://review.openstack.org/408955 | 03:30 |
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| openstackgerrit | Zhenyu Zheng proposed openstack/nova master: Support tag instances when boot(1) https://review.openstack.org/459523 | 03:52 |
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| openstackgerrit | Takashi NATSUME proposed openstack/nova master: Enable cold migration with target host(2/2) https://review.openstack.org/408964 | 04:16 |
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| openstackgerrit | Takashi NATSUME proposed openstack/nova master: api-ref: Add parameters in cold migrate action https://review.openstack.org/410042 | 04:31 |
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| openstackgerrit | Takashi NATSUME proposed openstack/nova master: Add functional tests for cold migration to same host https://review.openstack.org/414926 | 04:51 |
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| openstackgerrit | jichenjc proposed openstack/python-novaclient master: Remove 1.1 extension comment https://review.openstack.org/459503 | 04:56 |
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| openstackgerrit | jichenjc proposed openstack/nova master: Use plain routes list for limits endpoint instead of stevedore https://review.openstack.org/458805 | 05:01 |
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| openstackgerrit | jichenjc proposed openstack/nova master: Use plain routes list for hosts endpoint instead of stevedore https://review.openstack.org/459231 | 05:02 |
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| openstackgerrit | jichenjc proposed openstack/nova master: use plain routes list for hypervisor endpoint instead of stevedore https://review.openstack.org/459235 | 05:02 |
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| openstackgerrit | jichenjc proposed openstack/nova master: Remove all discoverable policy rules https://review.openstack.org/459608 | 05:40 |
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| openstackgerrit | Takashi NATSUME proposed openstack/python-novaclient master: Microversion 2.46 - Enable cold migration with target host https://review.openstack.org/406707 | 05:55 |
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| openstackgerrit | Huan Xie proposed openstack/nova master: WIP: XenAPI use os-xenapi v2 in nova https://review.openstack.org/453493 | 06:12 |
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| openstackgerrit | Takashi NATSUME proposed openstack/nova master: List/show all server migration types (1/2) https://review.openstack.org/430608 | 06:22 |
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| openstackgerrit | Alex Xu proposed openstack/python-novaclient master: 2.44: Deprecate multinic, add/remove_floatingip, virtual_interfaces https://review.openstack.org/459966 | 06:55 |
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| openstackgerrit | Takashi NATSUME proposed openstack/nova master: List/show all server migration types (2/2) https://review.openstack.org/459483 | 07:01 |
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| openstackgerrit | Takashi NATSUME proposed openstack/python-novaclient master: Microversion 2.46 - List/Show all server migration types https://review.openstack.org/430839 | 07:15 |
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| openstackgerrit | Zhenyu Zheng proposed openstack/nova master: Support tag instances when boot(2/4) https://review.openstack.org/459569 | 07:24 |
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| openstackgerrit | Takashi NATSUME proposed openstack/nova-specs master: Abort Cold Migration https://review.openstack.org/334732 | 07:34 |
| openstackgerrit | Takashi NATSUME proposed openstack/nova-specs master: Specify keymap on server boot https://review.openstack.org/448830 | 07:34 |
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| openstackgerrit | falseuser proposed openstack/nova master: [BugFix] Check the instance task status to release the memory quota for vram https://review.openstack.org/456050 | 07:39 |
| openstackgerrit | Zhenyu Zheng proposed openstack/nova master: Support tag instances when boot(3/4) https://review.openstack.org/459593 | 07:39 |
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| openstackgerrit | Daniel Pawlik proposed openstack/nova master: Added kvm_hidden feature https://review.openstack.org/459753 | 07:42 |
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| openstackgerrit | Alex Xu proposed openstack/nova master: Use plain routes list for os-interface endpoint instead of stevedore https://review.openstack.org/459979 | 07:44 |
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| openstackgerrit | fengzhr proposed openstack/nova master: Modify the description of flat_injected in nova.conf https://review.openstack.org/458789 | 07:50 |
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| lyarwood | sfinucan: morning, would you mind taking a look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/458807/ this morning? It's the actual bugfix in the series you started reviewing yesterday. | 08:49 |
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| asettle | Ah, my second home, the nova channel.... | 09:08 |
| asettle | bauzas: we've got a fix for those placement vs. port numbers https://review.openstack.org/#/c/459903/ if you have time to look | 09:09 |
| asettle | I can't see cdent in yet | 09:09 |
| openstackgerrit | John Garbutt proposed openstack/nova master: Remove all discoverable policy rules https://review.openstack.org/459608 | 09:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | asettle: he was up late with TC stuff | 09:11 |
| openstackgerrit | John Garbutt proposed openstack/nova master: Add description to policies in floating_ip files https://review.openstack.org/459791 | 09:11 |
| asettle | johnthetubaguy: ahuh! makes sense :) | 09:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | I followed through on my election promise of not attending the meeting... I was in a pub talking about openstack, so didn't make the best use of my time as such | 09:13 |
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| openstackgerrit | falseuser proposed openstack/nova master: [BugFix] Check the instance task status to release the memory quota for vram https://review.openstack.org/456050 | 09:14 |
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| asettle | johnthetubaguy: at least you tried :P | 09:17 |
| openstackgerrit | Gábor Antal proposed openstack/nova master: Transform instance.volume_attach notification https://review.openstack.org/401992 | 09:17 |
| * johnthetubaguy nods | 09:17 | |
| openstackgerrit | Gábor Antal proposed openstack/nova master: Transform instance.volume_detach notification https://review.openstack.org/408676 | 09:19 |
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| openstackgerrit | Gábor Antal proposed openstack/nova master: Transform instance.volume_attach.error notification https://review.openstack.org/455801 | 09:19 |
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| openstackgerrit | Ritesh proposed openstack/nova master: rbd: flatten images when unshelving https://review.openstack.org/457886 | 09:20 |
| openstackgerrit | Zhenyu Zheng proposed openstack/nova master: Support tag instances when boot(2/4) https://review.openstack.org/459569 | 09:20 |
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| openstackgerrit | John Garbutt proposed openstack/nova master: Add description to policies in floating_ip files https://review.openstack.org/459791 | 09:22 |
| bauzas | asettle: morning, sorry was in $meeting | 09:24 |
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| asettle | How dare you work! | 09:25 |
| asettle | I have patches! | 09:25 |
| asettle | :p | 09:25 |
| bauzas | asettle: you know that port 8778 clashes with some other openstack project? | 09:25 |
| bauzas | in devstack I mean | 09:25 |
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| asettle | bauzas: I did not. Which I guess is why I'm asking you guys to review :/ | 09:25 |
| asettle | Oh no. What does it clash with? | 09:25 |
| bauzas | asettle: sec, giving you the ML thread | 09:26 |
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| bauzas | asettle: long thread, enjoy the read http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-December/109219.html | 09:26 |
| bauzas | asettle: tl;dr: senlin was gating on this port | 09:26 |
| asettle | Gosh, my morning just got so much more exciting | 09:26 |
| bauzas | asettle: so we changed the placement devstack module to not use a port | 09:26 |
| bauzas | asettle: but given some operators already looked at the previous version, they began to use this port | 09:27 |
| asettle | Right. Right. | 09:27 |
| asettle | That's. Not great. | 09:27 |
| asettle | *head desk* | 09:27 |
| asettle | So what port *do* you guys use now? | 09:27 |
| bauzas | asettle: most of them are saying it's fine because they don't use Senlin | 09:27 |
| asettle | Yes, right. | 09:27 |
| asettle | But we can't have htat in the official docs. | 09:27 |
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| bauzas | asettle: in devstack, we don't use a port | 09:27 |
| bauzas | we use the httpd virtualhost config | 09:28 |
| bauzas | asettle: https://github.com/openstack-dev/devstack/blob/master/files/apache-placement-api.template | 09:28 |
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| bauzas | asettle: unfortunately, some operators didn't changed that | 09:29 |
| bauzas | (yet) | 09:29 |
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| * asettle watches the car crash | 09:30 | |
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| asettle | Honest to god the more i learn each morning about this the more I want to pretend I don't know :P | 09:30 |
| asettle | Okay. | 09:30 |
| asettle | Thanks for hte contenxt bauzas :) | 09:30 |
| asettle | context* | 09:30 |
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| openstackgerrit | John Garbutt proposed openstack/nova master: Add description to policies in floating_ip files https://review.openstack.org/459791 | 09:32 |
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| openstackgerrit | John Garbutt proposed openstack/nova master: Add description to policies in migrations.py https://review.openstack.org/459727 | 09:34 |
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| bauzas | asettle: so, about documentation, I don't know what to say | 09:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | asettle: the wider context, is we get everyone off ports as we get all the APIs onto apache, I think | 09:36 |
| bauzas | asettle: because some use that port | 09:37 |
| bauzas | asettle: some are not | 09:37 |
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| sfinucan | lyarwood: on it | 09:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: its tempting to say, find URL that your placement API is hosted on, and add it in here | 09:37 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: yup, it's definitely a config | 09:37 |
| asettle | I think what we might have to do is write a very big IMPORTANT note that reminds people you can use that port, but do not use it if you intend to use Senlin. Whihc is really messy but I"m not seeing too many ways around it, to be honest. Using the placement is *not* working, we can't argue that right now. | 09:37 |
| asettle | We need to have some working documentation. | 09:37 |
| lyarwood | sfinucan: cheers | 09:37 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: but unfortunately, that depends on distros | 09:38 |
| bauzas | asettle: deployers don't have choices, it's untrue to tell them that | 09:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: right, thats what I mean by find the URL | 09:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | we can give its usually this or this, etc | 09:38 |
| bauzas | asettle: it's rather, deployers need to know the related option depending on their distro | 09:39 |
| asettle | Okay. So how do we communicate that in a short, concise, documented, step? | 09:39 |
| bauzas | (at least until all distros move to a non-port URL) | 09:39 |
| bauzas | asettle: the main question is, how deployers can discover that ? | 09:40 |
| bauzas | I'd be tempted to say all distros use httpd | 09:40 |
| bauzas | so we could say to deployers to look at the /etc/httpd/ path | 09:40 |
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| bauzas | either sites.de or sites-enabled depending on the OS | 09:41 |
| bauzas | or grep something in /etc/{httpd|apache} | 09:41 |
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| bauzas | either way, the idea is to find the placement virtualhost configuration | 09:42 |
| bauzas | *if they use httpd* | 09:42 |
| bauzas | because if they use nginx+uswsgi, then it's totally different | 09:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | so these docs are for specific packages right? | 09:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | can't we just find out that answer | 09:44 |
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| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: the other problem is that it's unrelated to packages :p | 09:49 |
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| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: I thought the packages installed the apache conf? | 09:50 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: unfortunately no, because TripleO wipes that packaged conf and provides its own | 09:50 |
| openstackgerrit | Balazs Gibizer proposed openstack/nova master: Add BDM to InstancePayload https://review.openstack.org/448779 | 09:50 |
| openstackgerrit | Balazs Gibizer proposed openstack/nova master: Add keypairs field to InstancePayload https://review.openstack.org/419730 | 09:50 |
| johnthetubaguy | it can be overriden, for sure, but I thought they general added one | 09:50 |
| johnthetubaguy | if not, our guide should tell them how to set that up | 09:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | so we just need the URL to match the guide, and its easier? | 09:51 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: in other words, openstack-nova in RDO uses port 8778 AFAIK but if you puppet-nova on top of it, it will use /placement | 09:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | sure, thats fine | 09:51 |
| openstackgerrit | Gábor Antal proposed openstack/nova master: Transform instance.soft_delete notifications https://review.openstack.org/460029 | 09:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | this is about using RDO packages manually, so seems like 8778 is the correct answer | 09:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | now a warning say, there be dragons here if you change the package defaults is a good idea | 09:52 |
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| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: this is fine, you mean ? http://imgur.com/c4jt321 :D | 09:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | so the guide is about using the packages manaully | 09:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | if you don't do that, the guide will be very wrong in many ways | 09:53 |
| bauzas | good point | 09:53 |
| bauzas | I'm not that seasoned with docs | 09:53 |
| bauzas | although I patched docs in 2013 :p | 09:53 |
| bauzas | but IIRC, it was far less complicated, either you deployed with Ubuntu or Fedora | 09:54 |
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| openstackgerrit | John Garbutt proposed openstack/nova master: Add description to policies in floating_ip files https://review.openstack.org/459791 | 09:55 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: asettle: so I guess if it's that simple, we should just have variable doc depending on which distro they use nope? | 09:55 |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: cool, glad we got that deprecation sorted, makes those docs much simpler ^ | 09:56 |
| asettle | bauzas: the variables are easy. We can manage that. We already do. So. Yep? | 09:56 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: thats what we do | 09:56 |
| bauzas | asettle: could we then just try to have that reviewed by most of the distros ? | 09:56 |
| bauzas | and having endpoints different between them ? | 09:56 |
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| bauzas | idk, just seems to me the easiest solution | 09:57 |
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| openstackgerrit | John Garbutt proposed openstack/nova master: Add description to policies in migrate_server.py https://review.openstack.org/459711 | 09:58 |
| openstackgerrit | John Garbutt proposed openstack/nova master: Add description to policies in migrate_server.py https://review.openstack.org/459711 | 09:58 |
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| cdent | asettle, bauzas, johnthetubaguy did you resolve the above discussion satisfactorily? I tend to agree with johnthetubaguy: make the docs match the packages and leave it at that (for now) | 10:04 |
| asettle | cdent: uh not quite. I think bauzas lost me with his last comments. | 10:04 |
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| Dinesh_Bhor | johnthetubaguy, sfinucan: Hi, if you get time then please take a look at it: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/457890/ | 10:11 |
| openstackgerrit | Zhenyu Zheng proposed openstack/nova master: Support tag instances when boot(2/4) https://review.openstack.org/459569 | 10:12 |
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| openstackgerrit | Gábor Antal proposed openstack/nova master: Transform instance.soft_delete notifications https://review.openstack.org/460029 | 10:15 |
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| sfinucan | Dinesh_Bhor: I'd seen that but I'm not 100% sure if we can do it. Comments now left saying as much | 10:22 |
| Dinesh_Bhor | sfinucan: ok, will wait for others to take a look at it. thanks you so much | 10:26 |
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| cdent | johnthetubaguy: if you're willing and able this looks good to go: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/455710/ | 10:41 |
| cdent | or alex_xu | 10:41 |
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| cdent | thanks sdague, you're up early | 10:49 |
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| sdague | cdent: not that early :) | 10:53 |
| cdent | anything before noon is early to me | 10:53 |
| sdague | cdent: I just went through the devstack nova wsgi patch about what the transition plan needs to be | 10:53 |
| cdent | it's a bit messy... | 10:54 |
| openstackgerrit | Alex Szarka proposed openstack/nova master: Transform instance-exists notification https://review.openstack.org/403660 | 10:56 |
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| openstackgerrit | Alex Szarka proposed openstack/nova master: Transform instance.exists notification https://review.openstack.org/403660 | 10:58 |
| cdent | i'll need to digest that sdague, I was thinking it might be possible to have grenade from-ocata to switch to uwsgi hosting the api, but I guess there's stuff that's relying on the URL for the API saying the same? | 10:58 |
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| cdent | another way to achieve the same thing would be to run uwsgi, but on a port (when in grenade) | 10:59 |
| cdent | (as I've done for the metadata service) | 10:59 |
| sdague | cdent: so in every transition we made here before we've left the configuration the same, we've not modeled a transition between 2 different service modes | 11:00 |
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| sdague | because I think that's really a post upgrade decision. Get onto the new code, then transition from one run mode to the other. | 11:00 |
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| cdent | yeah, I've never understood that because that means two events that are effectively upgrades. If I were deploying I'd change both at the same time (assuming some out of band testing beforehand) | 11:02 |
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| sdague | cdent: I wouldn't. I would validate the same configuration path worked as before before changing that out. | 11:07 |
| cdent | different strokes. but that's fine. I'll have to stick a lot of stuff back into lib/nova, but that's also fine. | 11:08 |
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| jaypipes | *yawn* | 11:23 |
| jaypipes | morning. | 11:23 |
| ralonsoh | jaypipes: good morning. Flash question: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/451777/6/nova/objects/pci_device_pool.py | 11:24 |
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| ralonsoh | jaypipes: do we need to bump the version of an object if the parent is updated? | 11:24 |
| jaypipes | ralonsoh: no | 11:24 |
| ralonsoh | thanks | 11:24 |
| jaypipes | ralonsoh: flash answer :) | 11:25 |
| ralonsoh | that's all, enjoy your coffee | 11:25 |
| jaypipes | hehe | 11:25 |
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| jaypipes | moshele: mornin. just approved the hw-tc-offload os-vif patch. excellent work on that. | 11:41 |
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| moshele | jaypipes: thanks :) | 11:42 |
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| alex_xu | nova api meeting is in 15 mins at #openstack-meeting-4 | 12:45 |
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| openstackgerrit | sahid proposed openstack/nova master: numa: fix an uninitialized local variable https://review.openstack.org/458848 | 12:50 |
| openstackgerrit | Stephen Finucane proposed openstack/os-vif master: Require OVS 2.8 (presumed) and kernel 4.8 for offload https://review.openstack.org/460093 | 12:52 |
| openstackgerrit | Stephen Finucane proposed openstack/os-vif master: Standardize README https://review.openstack.org/460094 | 12:52 |
| sfinucan | jaypipes. moshele: noddy doc fixes ye should check out ^ | 12:53 |
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| sfinucan | sean-k-mooney too ^ | 12:53 |
| johnthetubaguy | sfinucan: about your comments here, I am just quoting from the api-ref, which seemed the correct thing to do: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/459711/3 | 12:53 |
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| sfinucan | johnthetubaguy: Yup, I get your reasoning. I'd rather have it "correct" in one place myself but I'm not too worried to hold it up on that | 12:55 |
| sfinucan | the reno/left over vars were what the hold up was for | 12:55 |
| johnthetubaguy | sfinucan: left over vars? I thought that was the other patch | 12:56 |
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| sfinucan | johnthetubaguy: I might be mixing up patches. Oops | 12:56 |
| johnthetubaguy | sfinucan: no worries, I keep doing that too | 12:56 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sfinucan: my grammar is fairly terrible, so they all read the same to me, I just don't want to flip flop between different wordings | 12:57 |
| sfinucan | johnthetubaguy: Hmm, could I be super-nitty and ask you to fix it? :/ | 12:58 |
| sfinucan | I can do it too | 12:58 |
| johnthetubaguy | sfinucan: I can fix it up, thats fine | 12:58 |
| johnthetubaguy | sfinucan: just wanted to be sure thats the way you want it | 12:58 |
| sfinucan | johnthetubaguy: Ideally, yes :) | 12:58 |
| sfinucan | I tend to write those things in imperative mood, present tense | 12:58 |
| sfinucan | like a command | 12:58 |
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| sfinucan | ditto for commit message, fwiw ;) | 12:58 |
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| alex_xu | nova api meeting is running | 13:00 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sfinucan: yeah, I don't really know the difference really, never got taught any of that, except a small amount in french and german, its kinda frustraighting they culled all that for a few years over here, I should probably go back and read up on all that at some point. | 13:00 |
| kashyap | johnthetubaguy: Git itself uses the "imperative mood" | 13:01 |
| openstackgerrit | Stephen Finucane proposed openstack/nova master: Sensibly wrap policy help messages https://review.openstack.org/460097 | 13:02 |
| kashyap | Merge branch 'blah' | 13:02 |
| sfinucan | johnthetubaguy, sdague: You were asking for this ^ | 13:02 |
| sfinucan | ? | 13:02 |
| kashyap | (Revert "Foo", etc) | 13:02 |
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| sfinucan | johnthetubaguy: I don't know where I learnt it, though I'm guessing school | 13:02 |
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| kashyap | Speaking of grammar, /me _just_ gave a "level-3" exam of his 4th language, Dutch | 13:03 |
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| kashyap | And _just_ managed to pass (52% in writing; 71.% marks in speaking) | 13:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | sfinucan: yeah, its stuff they brought back in just after I left school, I believe | 13:03 |
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| sfinucan | johnthetubaguy: We did things like cursive writing (? the one where you join letters etc.) in England, but I don't recall them teaching any of that in Ireland :/ | 13:04 |
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| mriedem | alex_xu: api meeting? | 13:04 |
| sfinucan | My siblings' writing is absolutely awful | 13:04 |
| sfinucan | mriedem: Yup, openstack-meeting-4 | 13:04 |
| mriedem | cursive is old news | 13:04 |
| sfinucan | kashyap: Congrats, dude :) That's outrageously impressive | 13:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | sfinucan: oh, funky, they did a slightly strange course at mine I think, missed out the useful bits! | 13:05 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sfinucan: I don't remember its name now | 13:05 |
| * sfinucan only has English to his name, so figures he best get it as damn near perfect as possible | 13:05 | |
| kashyap | sfinucan: Duh, that 52% in writing was danglingly close! The goddmaned thing trips me up is the "inversion" (which is same in Dutch and German) | 13:05 |
| kashyap | E.g: "If I am sick, I go to the doctor", it becomes: "If I am sick, go I to the doctor" | 13:05 |
| sfinucan | johnthetubaguy: I blame Thatcher | 13:05 |
| sfinucan | Always blame Thatcher | 13:06 |
| kashyap | sfinucan: But yeah, not complaining; tomorrow night (right after work) starts my level-4 -- "maintain the momentum" :P | 13:07 |
| sdague | sfinucan: yeh, though is that going to destroy intentional formatting? | 13:07 |
| sfinucan | kashyap: It's be "If I sick am", no? | 13:07 |
| kashyap | sfinucan: That, too! | 13:07 |
| sfinucan | i.e. Wenn ich krank bin, | 13:07 |
| sfinucan | ... | 13:07 |
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| sfinucan | yada yada random guttural words | 13:07 |
| sdague | I feel like we went around in circles here before on oslo.config where force rewrapping is not always the answer | 13:07 |
| sfinucan | sdague: It would if we're doing things like bullet points | 13:08 |
| sdague | yeh | 13:08 |
| sdague | which are often useful | 13:08 |
| sfinucan | but I didn't spot any of those during my reviews so I _think_ we're good here | 13:08 |
| sdague | right, yet :) | 13:08 |
| sdague | yeh, we should be ok for now, but I am sure it will show up as a desire | 13:09 |
| sfinucan | Well, hopefully by time that happens we'll be using the oslo.policy version | 13:09 |
| sfinucan | then it's their problem | 13:09 |
| * sfinucan wonders how docutils does that | 13:09 | |
| sdague | so, out of curiosity, what was the key issue with the wrapping? was it losing 2 columns to the comment? | 13:09 |
| openstackgerrit | Artom Lifshitz proposed openstack/nova master: Plumbing for tagged nic attachment https://review.openstack.org/415622 | 13:10 |
| openstackgerrit | Artom Lifshitz proposed openstack/nova master: Delete nic metadata when detaching interface https://review.openstack.org/435387 | 13:10 |
| openstackgerrit | Artom Lifshitz proposed openstack/nova master: Libvirt support for tagged volume attachment https://review.openstack.org/418100 | 13:10 |
| openstackgerrit | Artom Lifshitz proposed openstack/nova master: Delete disk metadata when detaching volume https://review.openstack.org/435082 | 13:10 |
| openstackgerrit | Artom Lifshitz proposed openstack/nova master: Plumbing for tagged volume attachment https://review.openstack.org/391941 | 13:10 |
| openstackgerrit | Artom Lifshitz proposed openstack/nova master: API support for tagged device attachment https://review.openstack.org/376021 | 13:10 |
| openstackgerrit | Artom Lifshitz proposed openstack/nova master: Libvirt support for tagged nic attachment https://review.openstack.org/415520 | 13:10 |
| sfinucan | Pretty much, yeah | 13:10 |
| sfinucan | and the outputter was presumably doing a dumb, N char wrap | 13:11 |
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| sfinucan | artom: Anything new in those or simple resolution of that merge conflict | 13:11 |
| sfinucan | ? | 13:11 |
| openstackgerrit | Daniel Pawlik proposed openstack/nova master: Added kvm_hidden feature https://review.openstack.org/459753 | 13:11 |
| artom | sfinucan, rebase and api version bump because something else took 2.43, 2.44 and 2.45 | 13:15 |
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| artom | dansmith, mriedem, actually, since sfinucan brought it up, can you take a look at that series? Rebasing it with a new API version is a pain, I would greatly appreciate if we could merge before I have to version bump again :) | 13:16 |
| openstackgerrit | Eric Fried proposed openstack/nova master: PowerVM Driver: console https://review.openstack.org/409402 | 13:16 |
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| mriedem | artom: is the tempest test passing? | 13:18 |
| artom | mriedem, well, not right this instant, but yes, I got it to pass by waiting for the default cache expiry duration | 13:19 |
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| sean-k-mooney | sfinucan: ya the readme change makes sense to me | 13:20 |
| sean-k-mooney | i have +2ed the review but ill hold off on the +W untill the gate jobs have run | 13:21 |
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| sean-k-mooney | i want to make sure the embeeded image render corretly but the rst files look fine | 13:22 |
| sfinucan | sean-k-mooney: There's an embedded image? | 13:23 |
| sfinucan | oh - the pypi badge | 13:23 |
| sfinucan | Cool :) | 13:23 |
| sean-k-mooney | yep the pypi ones | 13:23 |
| openstackgerrit | Eric Fried proposed openstack/nova master: PowerVM Driver: SSP emphemeral disk support https://review.openstack.org/443189 | 13:23 |
| efried | sdague mriedem ^^ trivial (but manual) rebase FYI. | 13:24 |
| sean-k-mooney | sfinucan: wait https://review.openstack.org/#/c/398277/ was merged? | 13:25 |
| sean-k-mooney | has the code landed in ovs yet? | 13:25 |
| sean-k-mooney | if not this should not have been merged | 13:25 |
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| artom | mriedem, I'll ping you again when I have the latest code passing ;) | 13:25 |
| sfinucan | sean-k-mooney: I thought the same thing, hence https://review.openstack.org/#/c/460093/ | 13:25 |
| sfinucan | I think we might have jumped the gun a tad bit on that one | 13:26 |
| sean-k-mooney | sfinucan: ya actully thats the review i just saw and was like why are you fixing something thats not merged | 13:26 |
| sfinucan | Should we revert or use the docs to suggest "this might not work" | 13:27 |
| sean-k-mooney | sfinucan: i guess jay didnt see that it was still pending in ovs | 13:27 |
| sean-k-mooney | i would lean towards revert but lets ask jay and moshe | 13:28 |
| sfinucan | jaypipes, moshele? ^ | 13:28 |
| sean-k-mooney | jaypipes: moshele https://review.openstack.org/#/c/398277/ was merged before the ovs support? | 13:28 |
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| sean-k-mooney | jaypipes: moshele should we revert or merge sfinucan docs change to reflect that this wont work untill support is added to ovs 2.8 | 13:29 |
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| sfinucan | sean-k-mooney: OVS 2.8 _tentative_ | 13:30 |
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| sfinucan | ;) | 13:30 |
| sean-k-mooney | sfinucan: yes im aware which is why i was a little concered that we merged support for something that may or may not be in the next release of ovs | 13:31 |
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| sean-k-mooney | ok got to run to a meeting but ya assuming the bages render correctly the readme change looks good. | 13:33 |
| openstackgerrit | Matt Riedemann proposed openstack/python-novaclient master: 2.45: createImage/createBackup image_id is in response body https://review.openstack.org/457008 | 13:33 |
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| mriedem | alex_xu: we don't use api_versions.wraps on shell commands in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/459496/ or the one after it | 13:35 |
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| jaypipes | sean-k-mooney: :( sorry guys, I missed that. | 13:37 |
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| jaypipes | sean-k-mooney: will it be a problem, though, until we cut a new os-vif release?\ | 13:37 |
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| jaypipes | sfinucan: ^^ | 13:37 |
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| alex_xu | mriedem: emm...I remember we use that before, for example https://github.com/openstack/python-novaclient/blob/master/novaclient/v2/shell.py#L2279 | 13:38 |
| mriedem | alex_xu: i think that's just to handle the behavior change, not to indicate deprecation | 13:39 |
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| jaypipes | dansmith, mriedem: super-friendly reminder on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/457782/ :) others (alex_xu, sfinucan, bauzas, cdent, edleafe) feel free to peruse as well. | 13:42 |
| jaypipes | sfinucan, sean-k-mooney: either of you seen this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1662650 | 13:42 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1662650 in neutron "[RFE] Advance configuration of SR-IOV ports- api extension" [Wishlist,Triaged] - Assigned to Trevor McCasland (twm2016) | 13:42 |
| mriedem | ack | 13:42 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: count me in for reviews | 13:43 |
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| dansmith | jaypipes: yep, got it open | 13:43 |
| mdbooth | dansmith: Just reviewing your https://review.openstack.org/#/c/458634/ and noticed it's collected a merge conflict. | 13:44 |
| mdbooth | Want me to push the fix? | 13:44 |
| jaypipes | sfinucan, sean-k-mooney: as kevinbenton says 'it's basically just "pipe this bag of flags to the SR-IOV nic"'. it's probably worth getting familiar with what AT&T is attempting to do there and do it right in os-vif? | 13:44 |
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| jaypipes | dansmith, mriedem, bauzas: cheers. | 13:45 |
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| dansmith | mdbooth: I have a change to one of the patches on top of that, so I'll do it | 13:45 |
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| mdbooth | dansmith: k | 13:45 |
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| openstackgerrit | Gábor Antal proposed openstack/nova master: Transform instance.soft_delete notifications https://review.openstack.org/460029 | 13:47 |
| mdbooth | dansmith: Incidentally, I was trying to write a tcl upvar style test which poisoned the local variable passed to target_cell in the parent stack frame, but it seems writing to locals() in cpython doesn't do anything under most circumstances. | 13:48 |
| dansmith | mdbooth: oh man, I haven't thought about tcl in forever | 13:48 |
| mdbooth | dansmith: I mostly try not to :) | 13:49 |
| mdbooth | It was my first commercial language | 13:49 |
| dansmith | heh | 13:49 |
| dansmith | it was my advisor's favorite language, so I wrote a bunch of stuff in it in college, but.. I barely remember any of it | 13:49 |
| mdbooth | upvar was the worst, but I thought I'd actually found a niche for it | 13:49 |
| dansmith | still have a book | 13:49 |
| jaypipes | I could never used a programming language named "Tickle". | 13:50 |
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| mdbooth | jaypipes: It's as good as any reason | 13:50 |
| jaypipes | :) | 13:50 |
| mriedem | yet you watch flubber every friday night | 13:50 |
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| mriedem | religiously | 13:50 |
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| jaypipes | lmao | 13:51 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: shh, don't tell anyone that./ | 13:51 |
| mriedem | sorry | 13:51 |
| * jaypipes digs into melwitt's quotas/cells series... | 13:52 | |
| openstackgerrit | Sylvain Bauza proposed openstack/nova master: Add reserved_host_cpus option https://review.openstack.org/460113 | 13:53 |
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| sfinucan | jaypipes: RE: "will it be a problem, though, until we cut a new os-vif release?" I guess it won't be, but do we want our next release to hinge on "has this feature landed in OVS"? | 13:54 |
| sfinucan | there's also the chance that the feature won't land/will be different | 13:54 |
| sfinucan | unlikely, in fairness, but possible | 13:54 |
| jaypipes | sfinucan: le sigh... sorry, didn't realize that was the case :( | 13:54 |
| jaypipes | sfinucan: k, revert it then. | 13:55 |
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| mriedem | kindly reminder to let me know if i should be releasing os-vif ever | 13:55 |
| jaypipes | sfinucan: next time, should really be WIP'd :) | 13:55 |
| mriedem | since i don't monitor it | 13:55 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: ya, we know :) | 13:55 |
| sfinucan | will do | 13:55 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: and yes, we will. | 13:55 |
| sfinucan | jaypipes: Aye | 13:55 |
| sfinucan | another +2 too, mind | 13:56 |
| sfinucan | :) | 13:56 |
| jaypipes | sfinucan: hmm? | 13:56 |
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| alex_xu | mriedem: if we have wraps for the shell, 'nova --os-compute-api-version 2.44 help' will hide the shell which isn't supported anymore. Then the user can know which commands supported in the specific version | 13:56 |
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| * sfinucan goes to check out this neutron spec too | 13:57 | |
| sfinucan | /bug | 13:57 |
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| mriedem | alex_xu: does anyone do that with the CLI? | 13:57 |
| openstackgerrit | Rodolfo Alonso Hernandez proposed openstack/nova master: Read Neutron port 'binding_profile' during boot https://review.openstack.org/449257 | 13:58 |
| openstackgerrit | Rodolfo Alonso Hernandez proposed openstack/nova master: Add Neutron port capabilities to devspec in request https://review.openstack.org/451777 | 13:58 |
| jaypipes | sfinucan: doh, apologies. for some reason I thought you or sean-k-mooney had +2'd moshele's hw-tc-offload patch :( | 13:58 |
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| alex_xu | mriedem: not sure :( | 13:58 |
| sfinucan | jaypipes: Oh, I heard something about bug 1662650 before. I think that guy, Trevor, talked about it in an SR-IOV meeting ages ago | 13:58 |
| openstack | bug 1662650 in neutron "[RFE] Advance configuration of SR-IOV ports- api extension" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1662650 - Assigned to Trevor McCasland (twm2016) | 13:58 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: in meetings - added to my queue | 13:58 |
| jaypipes | sean-k-mooney, sfinucan: I must have confused your +2's on the dependent patches for a +2 on that one. my apologies to you both. | 13:58 |
| sfinucan | jaypipes: It's all goooood | 13:59 |
| jaypipes | no, it's really not... pretty bad mistake of mine :( | 13:59 |
| mriedem | jbernard: i don't know what happened in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/459832/ | 13:59 |
| openstackgerrit | Stephen Finucane proposed openstack/os-vif master: Revert "hardware offload support for openvswitch" https://review.openstack.org/460120 | 14:00 |
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| sfinucan | jaypipes: Do we need to +2 reverts? :D | 14:01 |
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| jaypipes | sfinucan: no, go for it. | 14:01 |
| openstackgerrit | Stephen Finucane proposed openstack/os-vif master: Standardize README https://review.openstack.org/460094 | 14:02 |
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| sfinucan | mriedem: Thanks for the info on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/373293/ - I'd no idea what the policy around stable/* requirements bumps was | 14:03 |
| mriedem | sfinucan: it's a long and sordid tale of woe | 14:04 |
| mriedem | and coincidentally as a result of the TC meeting yesterday, is going to come back up real soon in the ML | 14:04 |
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| mriedem | sfinucan: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1k0mCHwRZ3_Z8zJw_WilsuTYYqnUDlY2PkgVJLz_xVQc/edit?usp=sharing | 14:05 |
| mriedem | oldy but goody | 14:05 |
| bauzas | mriedem: dansmith: jaypipes: do you remember the exact problem that I tried to solve when I wrote "Amend RT to filter out allocations for instances that don't have a host set | 14:06 |
| bauzas | yet when it does self-heal check." ? | 14:06 |
| mriedem | bauzas: that was a race that edleafe pointed out i think | 14:06 |
| bauzas | mriedem: dansmith: jaypipes: the fact that we post allocations for instances that we discover, right? | 14:06 |
| dansmith | the pre-scheduling race or something? | 14:06 |
| sfinucan | mriedem: niiiiice | 14:07 |
| bauzas | I think so | 14:07 |
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| bauzas | anyway, just writing the patch, comments welcome | 14:07 |
| mriedem | oh right, | 14:07 |
| dansmith | like, you create an instance, don't assign the host, do create allocations, and that host deletes the allocations before building because of self-heal | 14:07 |
| mriedem | because instance.host isn't set until we're in the RT | 14:07 |
| dansmith | yeah | 14:07 |
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| bauzas | dansmith: wait | 14:09 |
| * dansmith waits | 14:09 | |
| bauzas | so we create allocations in self-heal | 14:09 |
| dansmith | and delete them | 14:10 |
| bauzas | but if we can't track it, then we delete the allocations | 14:10 |
| bauzas | correct | 14:10 |
| bauzas | so, we should filter out to delete the allocation, or to post it ? | 14:10 |
| dansmith | not sure what you mean | 14:11 |
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| dansmith | we should avoid deleting it if we think we should but no host is set on the instance | 14:11 |
| dansmith | like instance.host==None | 14:11 |
| bauzas | we delete the allocations for instances that aren't tracked | 14:11 |
| dansmith | ...right | 14:12 |
| bauzas | okay, so the problem is about deleting allocations | 14:12 |
| dansmith | yes | 14:12 |
| bauzas | lemme see the code | 14:12 |
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| bauzas | I mean, can't see the race | 14:13 |
| dansmith | 1. conductor creates the instance in the db, instance.host=None | 14:13 |
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| dansmith | 2. Conductor/scheduler/whatever creates the allocations in placement | 14:13 |
| dansmith | 3. Conductor gets ready to send the instance to compute to build | 14:13 |
| dansmith | 4. Compute runs self heal before that happens, sees allocations it doesn't know about, deletes them | 14:14 |
| dansmith | 5. Instance arrives at compute ready to build | 14:14 |
| dansmith | make sense? | 14:14 |
| bauzas | ah ok | 14:14 |
| bauzas | yup | 14:14 |
| bauzas | no races yet, but possible race after my changes, gotcha | 14:14 |
| dansmith | yes | 14:14 |
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| mriedem | althought, | 14:16 |
| mriedem | *although, | 14:16 |
| mriedem | now that you say this, i'm not sure where in the code #4 happens | 14:16 |
| dansmith | hang on I'll show you | 14:16 |
| bauzas | unless I'm blind, the only case where we get allocations, it's per instance | 14:16 |
| bauzas | and we never delete them | 14:17 |
| bauzas | only if when tracking, we removed the instance uuid | 14:17 |
| dansmith | I had to find this for jaypipes a couple weeks ago | 14:17 |
| bauzas | which is happening because we do get the list of instances per host | 14:17 |
| dansmith | https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/scheduler/client/report.py#L873-L885 | 14:17 |
| bauzas | and we compare to what we have in memory | 14:17 |
| dansmith | we get allocations based on compute node, | 14:18 |
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| dansmith | then any instances we don't have in the instances_dict provided get their allocations deleted | 14:18 |
| bauzas | oh fuck, missed that one | 14:18 |
| mriedem | dansmith: i saw that, | 14:18 |
| mriedem | but how is an instance we're about to build that doesn't have instance.host set showing up in that list? | 14:18 |
| bauzas | dansmith: but we should get the instance uuid to be scheduled part of the argument | 14:18 |
| mriedem | via the allocations tied to the RP? | 14:19 |
| mriedem | oh i see | 14:19 |
| mriedem | yeah | 14:19 |
| dansmith | mriedem: it's not in instances_uuids yet, but is in get_allocations() | 14:19 |
| mriedem | right | 14:19 |
| dansmith | bauzas: no | 14:19 |
| mriedem | instance_uuids could be empty | 14:19 |
| dansmith | right | 14:19 |
| bauzas | if there are no tracked instances, correct | 14:20 |
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| openstackgerrit | John Garbutt proposed openstack/nova master: Remove all discoverable policy rules https://review.openstack.org/459608 | 14:20 |
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| mriedem | self.tracked_instances[uuid] = obj_base.obj_to_primitive(instance) | 14:21 |
| bauzas | mriedem: dansmith: oooh man, I see the problem | 14:21 |
| mriedem | so rather than pass instance_uuids to remove_deleted_instances, we'll have to pass the actual instances | 14:21 |
| mriedem | to see if host is set or not | 14:21 |
| bauzas | since instance.host is none, then the get_instances_per_host doesn't get it | 14:21 |
| dansmith | mriedem: no | 14:21 |
| dansmith | mriedem: because instances with no host won't be in tracked_instances | 14:21 |
| bauzas | yup | 14:21 |
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| dansmith | mriedem: we have to look up instances we think we want to delete allocations for | 14:21 |
| mriedem | oh right | 14:21 |
| bauzas | I now see the potential race | 14:21 |
| mriedem | yuck | 14:21 |
| dansmith | and not delete any that don't have host set | 14:21 |
| dansmith | usually the list we think we need to delete will be empty, so it's not a big deal | 14:22 |
| bauzas | mmm | 14:22 |
| dansmith | only if we're really healing from some big failure, or if we lose this race, and then it'll likely only be one instance | 14:22 |
| mriedem | can we filter on host when pulling that instance list to try and narrow the results? | 14:23 |
| dansmith | no | 14:23 |
| dansmith | we don't need to | 14:23 |
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| dansmith | but it doesn't have host set, so.. | 14:23 |
| dansmith | we will have a list of instance uuids we need to consider, | 14:23 |
| bauzas | dansmith: I see your point | 14:23 |
| dansmith | so we lookup _just_ those instances | 14:23 |
| dansmith | and they will only be instances that have allocations against our compute node | 14:23 |
| bauzas | dansmith: but then we need to lookup those instances in the report client code | 14:23 |
| dansmith | so it's not like it's all unscheduled instances or anything | 14:24 |
| dansmith | bauzas: or refactor how this cleanup works | 14:24 |
| dansmith | bauzas: I'm not sure this integrated cleaning makes sense in the report client anyway | 14:24 |
| bauzas | dansmith: I prefer the latter | 14:24 |
| dansmith | right | 14:24 |
| dansmith | it's code, it can change :) | 14:24 |
| bauzas | dansmith: yup, zactly | 14:24 |
| bauzas | okay, hands on | 14:24 |
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| bauzas | there is only one caller for remove_deleted_instances, not a big deal indeed | 14:25 |
| bauzas | dansmith: thanks for the explanation | 14:25 |
| dansmith | it should be named something less obscure too | 14:25 |
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| dansmith | and more allocationy | 14:25 |
| bauzas | I somehow captured that a while ago, but my brain fried in between | 14:25 |
| bauzas | I should have been more explicit in the spec | 14:25 |
| mriedem | heh this is blowing my mind https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/scheduler/client/report.py#L878 | 14:25 |
| mriedem | apparently instance_uuids isn't a list of instance uuids | 14:25 |
| mriedem | because instance['uuid'] | 14:26 |
| bauzas | yup | 14:26 |
| bauzas | it's not the instance object, it's rather the instance payload we pass back | 14:26 |
| mriedem | that totally threw me | 14:26 |
| bauzas | from placement | 14:26 |
| mriedem | it's not an instance object, it's the primitive | 14:26 |
| mriedem | self.tracked_instances[uuid] = obj_base.obj_to_primitive(instance) | 14:26 |
| mriedem | self.scheduler_client.reportclient.remove_deleted_instances( | 14:27 |
| mriedem | cn, self.tracked_instances.values()) | 14:27 |
| bauzas | correct, sorry | 14:27 |
| bauzas | anyway, on it | 14:27 |
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| dansmith | it doesn't matter for this anyway | 14:27 |
| dansmith | we don't need the instance object because those are instances we _don't_ care about | 14:27 |
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| mriedem | right, because if instance_uuids is empty, but allocations isn't, removed_instances = set(allocations.keys()) - set(instance_dict.keys()) will make us remove all of those allocations | 14:28 |
| mriedem | yes? | 14:28 |
| mriedem | so we have to get the list of instances from the allocations we're about to remove, and filter out the ones where instance.host is None | 14:29 |
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| dansmith | yes | 14:29 |
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| mriedem | and that's where i was saying we could filter on host when pulling the instances from the db | 14:30 |
| mriedem | as an optimization | 14:30 |
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| dansmith | it's not an optimization | 14:30 |
| dansmith | we can't filter by host because these instances necessarily are host=None | 14:30 |
| mriedem | select * from nova.instances where uuid in (for allocation.consumer_id in allocations) and instance.host is not None; | 14:30 |
| dansmith | we're already doing that effectively, | 14:30 |
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| dansmith | because we're asking placement for instances with allocations against our host | 14:31 |
| bauzas | lemme try something, POC should be in the next couple of minutes | 14:31 |
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| bauzas | easier to talk | 14:31 |
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| mriedem | dansmith: there is going to be a conditional in the code once we pull the instance list back from the db to see if instance.host is None or not, right? | 14:31 |
| openstackgerrit | John Garbutt proposed openstack/nova master: Remove all discoverable policy rules https://review.openstack.org/459608 | 14:31 |
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| openstackgerrit | John Garbutt proposed openstack/nova master: Add description to policies in floating_ip files https://review.openstack.org/459791 | 14:32 |
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| dansmith | mriedem: oh I see you mean query for instances with host=None specifically? We'll want to also skip instances that match our hostname in case we're racing with our own build | 14:32 |
| openstackgerrit | John Garbutt proposed openstack/nova master: Add description to policies in migrations.py https://review.openstack.org/459727 | 14:32 |
| dansmith | otherwise we'd delete things that we just owned ourselves | 14:32 |
| mriedem | dansmith: yes, i'm saying move the python condition into the sql query | 14:33 |
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| openstackgerrit | John Garbutt proposed openstack/nova master: Add description to policies in migrate_server.py https://review.openstack.org/459711 | 14:33 |
| mriedem | so we're pulling less stuff we don't care about over rpc | 14:33 |
| mriedem | like with a bunch of joins and shit we don't care about | 14:33 |
| dansmith | mriedem: but it's a specific list of instance uuids and we care about all of them because of ^ | 14:33 |
| mriedem | this is really just an existence check | 14:33 |
| dansmith | it's not | 14:33 |
| dansmith | because we need to delete allocations for instances that have been evacuated in our absence to another host | 14:33 |
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| dansmith | or instances that were locally deleted while we were gone | 14:34 |
| dansmith | but not instances that are in flight (=None) or assigned to us while we were doing this (=$host) | 14:34 |
| mriedem | i'll have to wait for the code change then to think about it | 14:34 |
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| dansmith | we have a call right now anyway | 14:34 |
| mriedem | sure, i just want to make sure this is as fast as possible | 14:35 |
| mriedem | expected_attrs=[] ftw | 14:35 |
| dansmith | it will almost always be a no-op, but sure | 14:35 |
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| bauzas | mriedem: mmm, unless I misunderstood, you wanted to ask to use get_by_filters() by saying "not this host", right? | 14:48 |
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| bauzas | mriedem: but AFAIK you can use a filter like 'host'='foo', not 'host'= NOT 'foo' | 14:49 |
| mriedem | host=None | 14:49 |
| mriedem | we do that elsewhere in the code | 14:49 |
| bauzas | mriedem: a-ha, I see | 14:50 |
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| bauzas | mriedem: but I also need to verify host=me | 14:50 |
| mriedem | then i guess you can't filter in sql | 14:51 |
| bauzas | yup, my point | 14:51 |
| bauzas | I was confused | 14:51 |
| bauzas | anyway | 14:51 |
| openstackgerrit | John Garbutt proposed openstack/nova master: Add description to policies in migrate_server.py https://review.openstack.org/459711 | 14:52 |
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| mriedem | bauzas: just make sure you pass expected_attrs=[] so we don't do a bunch of unnecessary joins | 14:54 |
| bauzas | I know | 14:54 |
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| dansmith | you guys are optimizing the heck out of a list of <=1 :P | 14:57 |
| jaypipes | dansmith, cdent: answered your questions on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/457782 | 14:57 |
| mriedem | lyarwood: can you hit some of these when you get a chance? https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:stable/newton | 14:58 |
| cdent | thanks jaypipes | 14:58 |
| bauzas | cdent: correct me if I'm wrong but... | 14:59 |
| bauzas | cdent: is https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/scheduler/client/report.py#L871 returning a list of instance UUIDs ? | 14:59 |
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| * bauzas is going to look at the code itself FWIW | 15:00 | |
| openstackgerrit | Huan Xie proposed openstack/nova master: WIP: XenAPI use os-xenapi v2 in nova https://review.openstack.org/453493 | 15:00 |
| cdent | bauzas it's more than that, but does include instance uuids | 15:00 |
| bauzas | cdent: it's keyed by that ? https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/scheduler/client/report.py#L880 | 15:01 |
| mdbooth | cdent jaypipes: Any reason we can't return structured objects from get_inventory(): https://review.openstack.org/#/c/457782/ ? | 15:01 |
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| mdbooth | dicts with grab bags of fields returned by drivers make me nervous | 15:01 |
| cdent | bauzas: https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/api/openstack/placement/handlers/allocation.py#L138 | 15:01 |
| lyarwood | mriedem: ack, sorry did mean to get around to that earlier in the week. | 15:02 |
| jaypipes | mdbooth: eventually, there will be a bit more structure there, when nested resource providers lands this patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/415920/ | 15:02 |
| bauzas | cdent: cool then | 15:02 |
| bauzas | cdent: FWIW the gabbi tests for allocations are a bit long to read :) | 15:02 |
| cdent | mdbooth: we're trying to kill off nova-side use of placement-used ovos, especially when rcp not involved | 15:02 |
| jaypipes | mdbooth: but we didn't want to depend on versioned objects defined in nova/objects/resource_provider.py within the virt driver layer. | 15:02 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: compared to...? | 15:03 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: for knowing which allocations to delete | 15:03 |
| bauzas | anyway, patch is close to be up | 15:03 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: no, I mean the gabbits are hard to read, compared to what? :) | 15:03 |
| cdent | bauzas: see line 51 of https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/placement-newton-leftovers | 15:04 |
| bauzas | compared to API docs :) | 15:04 |
| mriedem | there is a note in there that the get allocations gabbits can't sub the left side of the json path b/c of a bug | 15:04 |
| mriedem | they are working on api-ref | 15:04 |
| cdent | s/they/we/ | 15:04 |
| cdent | as in, all of us | 15:04 |
| mriedem | us vs them | 15:05 |
| mriedem | duh | 15:05 |
| cdent | mriedem: are you the wolf or the dog today? | 15:05 |
| mriedem | i meant, they as in 'people that aren't me' | 15:05 |
| mriedem | :) | 15:05 |
| mriedem | b/c i'm not being helpful | 15:05 |
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| cdent | the docs, although not yet published, are coming together nicely and look very nice and polished | 15:06 |
| cdent | given sufficient time/energy/people it would be great to decompose the gabbi files into smaller pieces, been on the looking for volunteers todo list for months | 15:08 |
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| openstackgerrit | John Garbutt proposed openstack/nova master: Add description to policies in floating_ip files https://review.openstack.org/459791 | 15:10 |
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| efried | mordred Just to be clear, for the endpoints-from-service-catalog stuff, you're suggesting changes in keystoneauth1 itself? | 15:12 |
| sean-k-mooney | jaypipes: hi jay yes im familar with what at&t want to do we were talking about this at the PTG | 15:12 |
| openstackgerrit | John Garbutt proposed openstack/nova master: Add description to policies in migrations.py https://review.openstack.org/459727 | 15:12 |
| sean-k-mooney | jaypipes: its been a while since i reviewd the code changes though so i need to see how its shaping up and what the apis will look like. | 15:13 |
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| jaypipes | sean-k-mooney: will you be in Boston? | 15:16 |
| sean-k-mooney | i was not planning to be if i had a strong reason to go i could | 15:16 |
| jaypipes | sean-k-mooney: heh, you know it's in <2 weeks right? :) | 15:16 |
| sean-k-mooney | yep i know i do have a ticket for said event but others are going form my team just not me | 15:17 |
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| sean-k-mooney | i was not sure how much design was going to happen at the fourm now with the PTG | 15:18 |
| openstackgerrit | Rafael Folco proposed openstack/nova master: Delete inventory has its own method DELETE https://review.openstack.org/460147 | 15:18 |
| jaypipes | sean-k-mooney: certainly less than the PTG. but if you were going to be there, I would propose meeting in person. | 15:18 |
| jaypipes | sean-k-mooney: not a big deal though. we can always do a hangout. | 15:18 |
| openstackgerrit | Ildiko Vancsa proposed openstack/nova master: WIP/POC Implement new attach Cinder flow https://review.openstack.org/330285 | 15:18 |
| openstackgerrit | Kaitlin Farr proposed openstack/nova master: Parse algorithm from cipher for ephemeral disk encryption https://review.openstack.org/446072 | 15:20 |
| sean-k-mooney | yep it would have been good to sync on things but ya im always up for a hangout's chat too | 15:20 |
| sean-k-mooney | jaypipes: AT&T originally were proposing this as a nova change and i redirected it to neutron at the ptg. | 15:21 |
| jaypipes | sean-k-mooney: k | 15:22 |
| mordred | efried: I am - I think we should add a method to keystoneauth which registers options needed by "adapters" (which is keystoneauth term for a session mounted on a service endpoint) | 15:22 |
| mordred | efried: so basically the parameters you need to create an adapter are the same parameters you need to find an endpoint from the service catalog | 15:22 |
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| mordred | and if we add them there, then we can just re-use that method ot register the right opts in all the places we want to let nova users put in all of the different filters | 15:23 |
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| mordred | (similar to how we use register_session_opts now) | 15:23 |
| efried | mordred I dig it. Can you point me to something in the keystone source that'll give me a hint as to how an "adapter" differs from a "session" or an "auth"? | 15:24 |
| mriedem | swebster: see my comment in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/453938/2/nova/network/neutronv2/api.py after the fact - can you push a small change to update that code comment block for the migration = None case? | 15:24 |
| mordred | one could also make the argument that an load_adapter_from_opts would be a nice equivilent method ot keystoneauth that we could use in the places we want just a plain keystoneuath REST interface | 15:24 |
| openstackgerrit | Gábor Antal proposed openstack/nova master: [WIP] Transform instance.live_migration_rollback notification https://review.openstack.org/402124 | 15:24 |
| mordred | efried: absolutely! one sec ... | 15:24 |
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| swebster | mriedem: no problem, will do | 15:25 |
| mordred | efried: so - if you start from here: https://github.com/openstack/keystoneauth/blob/master/keystoneauth1/loading/__init__.py#L31-L32 | 15:25 |
| efried | mordred And next question: Where do I propose changes? review.openstack.org via https://git.openstack.org/openstack/keystoneauth ? | 15:25 |
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| efried | mordred Yuh, found that, and saw how it was being used by other groups (cinder, ironic). | 15:26 |
| mordred | efried: you can see this: https://github.com/openstack/keystoneauth/blob/master/keystoneauth1/loading/session.py | 15:26 |
| mordred | so I believe what would be wanted is a similar keystoneauth1/loading/adapter.py | 15:26 |
| mordred | the actual adapter code is here: https://github.com/openstack/keystoneauth/blob/master/keystoneauth1/adapter.py - which lists the different adapter constructor params - I'm not sure all of those need to be conf options though | 15:27 |
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| mordred | efried: I'd say for your purposes, https://github.com/openstack/keystoneauth/blob/master/keystoneauth1/adapter.py#L32-L37 are the ones that want conf options | 15:28 |
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| efried | mordred Except service_name, which people thought was useless? | 15:28 |
| mordred | https://github.com/openstack/keystoneauth/blob/master/keystoneauth1/adapter.py#L38 is useful once you're actually calling get_endpoint - but I think that's a different nova-level thing not a conf option | 15:29 |
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| mordred | efried: yes - I do wish service_name would diaf, but I think also johnthetubaguy made a good point mentioning it - just because I don't like it doesn't mean that people out there may not have used it for something | 15:29 |
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| mordred | efried: for instance, in the infra account for rackspace public cloud, there actually used to be 2 entries for "compute" - because of history with pre-openstack rackspace | 15:30 |
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| mordred | and we had to use service_name to get it to pick the right one | 15:30 |
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| mordred | so if we're adding the conf_options to keystoneauth, we might as well be complete :) | 15:30 |
| efried | mordred Fair enough. | 15:30 |
| efried | mordred At a glance here, I would need to have the union of [session opts] with these adapter opts, right? | 15:31 |
| mordred | efried: fwiw, I recently wrote a spec: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/459405/ - which explains this entire thing in excruciating detail | 15:31 |
| openstackgerrit | Gábor Antal proposed openstack/nova master: [WIP] Transform instance.live_migration_rollback notification https://review.openstack.org/402124 | 15:31 |
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| efried | ooo | 15:31 |
| mordred | in case you've ever wanted to learn _WAY_ more about what's going on here than any human should know | 15:31 |
| efried | That'll be helpful. | 15:31 |
| cdent | "explains" | 15:32 |
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| mordred | efried: yah - each service grouping needs the session opts and the adapter opts in order to fully desscribe how to connect to a service | 15:32 |
| mordred | efried: the sesion opts obvs go to the Session, and then the adapter opts are how the service endpoint is found | 15:32 |
| mordred | cdent: :) | 15:32 |
| mordred | cdent: ooh! you made reviews for me - I'm excited | 15:33 |
| * mordred goes to read | 15:33 | |
| cdent | mordred: i'm afraid they are disappointingly short | 15:33 |
| swebster | mriedem: do you recommend updating that existing review, or should I start a new branch/review for the comment change? Since the original change already got merged | 15:34 |
| efried | mordred I believe I understand. This is just what I was looking for. Ima have questions for you later about os-client-config (once you get out of cdent-land) | 15:34 |
| cdent | Yay! I have a land, how do I get there? | 15:34 |
| efried | cdent Take the red pill | 15:35 |
| mriedem | swebster: the existing review is merged | 15:35 |
| mriedem | so it has to be new | 15:35 |
| jbernard | mriedem: im not sure either | 15:35 |
| swebster | mriedem: thx | 15:35 |
| mriedem | jbernard: i pushed a rev of the d-g change with tracing | 15:36 |
| jbernard | mriedem: ahh, you added a recheck, thanks | 15:36 |
| jbernard | mriedem: something unrelated appears to have merged, the graph is not looking good this morning | 15:36 |
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| mordred | efried: cool - let's definitely chat later about the occ things - I'll ping when I'm done with the next round of updates on this spec | 15:37 |
| efried | mordred Roger wilco, and thanks. | 15:38 |
| mordred | cdent: one of your feedbacks brings up a thing that morgan had mentioned too and I came up with a good idea for making it better - so while short, they are helpful! | 15:38 |
| * cdent is pleased | 15:38 | |
| jbernard | mriedem: http://logs.openstack.org/32/459832/1/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-full-devstack-plugin-ceph-ubuntu-xenial/85d7f13/console.html#_2017-04-26_14_11_03_609997 | 15:38 |
| jbernard | mriedem: looks like maybe it's being skipped over | 15:39 |
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| mriedem | artom: why not also setting capabilities for vmware and ironic drivers in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/415520/29 ? | 15:39 |
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| efried | Is it a done thing to refer to a nova blueprint from another project? (For these keystoneauth changes, I would be referring to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/use-service-catalog-for-endpoints, which is listed under project nova) | 15:40 |
| efried | Would the blueprint have to be tagged to be registered under keystone as well, and approved there? | 15:40 |
| mriedem | jbernard: oh | 15:40 |
| mriedem | {plugin-repo} | 15:40 |
| mriedem | rather than ${plugin-repo} | 15:40 |
| artom | mriedem, err, whoops. Not sure why that happened | 15:40 |
| mriedem | artom: let me just -1 you right here real quick... | 15:41 |
| openstackgerrit | Sylvain Bauza proposed openstack/nova master: WIP: Don't delete allocation if instance being scheduled https://review.openstack.org/460177 | 15:41 |
| artom | mriedem, fair | 15:41 |
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| mriedem | artom: although if the compute manager or whatever is checking that flag just does a .get('foo', False) that would be fine too | 15:41 |
| jbernard | mriedem: i thought the $ was not needed in yaml | 15:41 |
| morgan | mordred: ++ | 15:41 |
| bauzas | mriedem: POC above for the discussion we had https://review.openstack.org/460177 | 15:41 |
| mriedem | jbernard: i'm in bash | 15:41 |
| mriedem | jbernard: i mean this is d-g which is bash | 15:42 |
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| artom | mriedem, that would be smarter, yes - though I think the precedent is to *not* do that | 15:42 |
| jbernard | mriedem: ooooh, in the wrapper | 15:42 |
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| mriedem | artom: maybe not, it's less explicit i guess, idk | 15:43 |
| artom | Maybe we need a has_capability in the generic virt driver, which then check the capabilities dict in the smart way | 15:43 |
| artom | As opposed to overriding everything everttime | 15:43 |
| openstackgerrit | Mikhail Feoktistov proposed openstack/nova master: Add is_vz_container function https://review.openstack.org/445947 | 15:43 |
| mriedem | encoding a default in the compute manager does duplicate the defaults, which kind of sucks | 15:43 |
| mriedem | but i don't think those things ever change | 15:43 |
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| mriedem | apparently efried and the powervm driver aren't even cool enough yet to override capabilities | 15:44 |
| artom | Default in the manager? I meant manager -> driver.has_capability('foo') -> return self.capabilities.get('foo', <default>) | 15:44 |
| mriedem | and no that's not an invitation to tell me to review whichever powervm patch adds capabilities overrides | 15:45 |
| efried | mriedem That was changed per YOUR review comment, nah? | 15:45 |
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| mriedem | artom: meh | 15:45 |
| mriedem | artom: we're over thinking this i think | 15:45 |
| artom | *shrug* it'd be a net improvement, no matter how small ;) | 15:45 |
| artom | But it can be done separately | 15:46 |
| mriedem | i agree with doing it separately | 15:46 |
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| mriedem | johnthetubaguy: we should be good to go here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/456896/ | 15:50 |
| mriedem | johnthetubaguy: we're going to need to find a 3rd sucker, i mean core, to help review the new cinder api changes if i'm going to be contributing to the series | 15:50 |
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| johnthetubaguy | mriedem: cool, I will take a peak at that now | 15:52 |
| cdent | bauzas: left a comment on your WIP that I wanted to be sure you didn't miss since your -W | 15:52 |
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| stackempty | hola .. does anyone know if something like this is already available https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/newton/approved/flavor-root-disk-none.html | 15:53 |
| mriedem | stackempty: you've just stepped into something | 15:54 |
| * mriedem finds references | 15:54 | |
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| mriedem | stackempty: see http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-February/113063.html | 15:55 |
| mriedem | the "Enable Cinder as an ephemeral storage backend for Nova" part | 15:55 |
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| mriedem | stackempty: if you're going to be at the forum https://www.openstack.org/summit/boston-2017/summit-schedule/events/18738/using-cinder-for-nova-ephemeral-storage-backend?BackURL=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstack.org%2Fsummit%2Fboston-2017%2Fsummit-schedule%2Fglobal-search%3Ft%3DRiedemann%23eventid%3D18738 | 15:56 |
| sfinucan | jaypipes, johnthetubaguy: I'm going to add a 'reserved_host_disk_gb' option if that makes sense? | 15:56 |
| sfinucan | to resolves the TODOs in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/457782/2/nova/scheduler/client/report.py | 15:56 |
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| mriedem | "It would be better to claim disk in MB, but that is hard now." | 15:57 |
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| mriedem | i don't see that changing anytime soon | 15:57 |
| mriedem | claiming disk in mb vs gb i mean | 15:57 |
| mriedem | stackempty: so the answer is not yet, | 15:57 |
| mriedem | stackempty: that feature from that spec never landed and was abandoned, | 15:58 |
| mriedem | stackempty: there have been alternative proposals since then to solve the same use case, | 15:58 |
| mriedem | which is i don't have local disk on the computes, i need/want to use cinder for all storage | 15:58 |
| mriedem | including ephemeral | 15:58 |
| stackempty | Thanks a lot @mriedem . | 15:58 |
| bauzas | mriedem: FWIW, I'd love to count on bytes even :) | 15:58 |
| mriedem | hell, let's count in nibbles | 15:59 |
| bauzas | mriedem: remember the helper script I needed to write for MB vs. GB ? | 15:59 |
| bauzas | and why bytes are cool :) | 15:59 |
| bauzas | or count in bosons if you wish | 15:59 |
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| bauzas | smallest atomic amount FTW | 16:00 |
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| sfinucan | seems I also stepped into something too. Oops | 16:00 |
| * sfinucan should look before he leaps | 16:01 | |
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| johnthetubaguy | sfinucan: I guess all the flavor stuff is in GiB, so having the configuration match that probably makes good sense. | 16:02 |
| mriedem | stackempty: there was also https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/create-bdm-from-flavor-extra-specs | 16:02 |
| sfinucan | johnthetubaguy: and from the look of the above, it's unlikely that that'll change anytimesoon | 16:02 |
| sfinucan | right? | 16:02 |
| mriedem | but we didn't want to go the route of stuffing bdm information in flavor extra specs | 16:02 |
| mriedem | the worst of both worlds | 16:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | mriedem: the above spec is the reverse I thought, its just a flavor that says "must have boot volume" | 16:03 |
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| mriedem | johnthetubaguy: the UX was bad imo, | 16:04 |
| mriedem | i think the idea was you mark your flavors as local_disks=False, | 16:04 |
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| mriedem | and if the user tries to create a server with one of those flavors but without defining bdms, it fails | 16:04 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sfinucan: my head swap was in MiB in the flavor but it seems like its not, I must have got mixed up with RAM | 16:04 |
| mriedem | putting the burden on the user to have to sort out which flavors they can use and if they have to have volumes, etc | 16:05 |
| mriedem | it'd be much better UX if the operator configures the compute to use cinder as an ephemeral storage backend | 16:05 |
| mriedem | regardless of flavor | 16:05 |
| bauzas | oh fun, we already verify existing allocations before posting | 16:05 |
| bauzas | mriedem: jaypipes: dansmith: cdent: ^ | 16:05 |
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| cdent | yes, didn't we already know that? | 16:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | mriedem: true, but that seems years away at this point, and the other way makes diskless hypervisors upstream | 16:06 |
| bauzas | cdent: I wrote that as a work item | 16:06 |
| bauzas | for the scheduler claims stuff | 16:06 |
| mriedem | johnthetubaguy: well, https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/newton/approved/flavor-root-disk-none.html also bakes that into the API | 16:06 |
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| johnthetubaguy | mriedem: the problem is the mix of diskless and non-diskless | 16:06 |
| bauzas | cdent: and nobody reviewed that saying "meh" :p | 16:06 |
| mriedem | johnthetubaguy: so then we have to support local_disks=False in flavors in the API for years probably | 16:06 |
| mriedem | even if we ever get cinder ephemeral | 16:07 |
| cdent | bauzas: well, I think I did when discussing the change to not use RPC, but it didn't get picked up and didn't seem a relevant detail | 16:07 |
| mriedem | johnthetubaguy: there was also https://review.openstack.org/#/c/432503/ which i really didn't want since it mixes extra specs and bdms | 16:07 |
| cdent | bauzas: in any case, did you seem my earlier [t 3xBS] | 16:07 |
| purplerbot | <cdent> bauzas: left a comment on your WIP that I wanted to be sure you didn't miss since your -W [2017-04-26 15:52:17.085960] [n 3xBS] | 16:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | mriedem: yeah, the auto create seems evil | 16:07 |
| mriedem | johnthetubaguy: anyway, we talked about cinder ephemeral at the ptg, a spec was never written, but it's a forum session to discuss it or alternatives | 16:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | mriedem: yeah | 16:08 |
| mriedem | if people want this, then they need to put up the dev resources to do it | 16:08 |
| mriedem | rather than api hacks | 16:08 |
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| mriedem | cinder ephemeral imagebackend also allows us to deprecate lvm, rbd and scaleio (if that lands) | 16:09 |
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| mriedem | i think anyway | 16:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | mriedem: my problem is the whole way we do disks is truly terrible, so to get to something clean buts a lot of burden on the users to switch to something radically different | 16:09 |
| mriedem | having said this, there is probably a world of API operations that don't work for boot from volume servers, like shelve/unshelve and rebuild | 16:10 |
| mriedem | users == operators? | 16:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | mriedem: they should all work, they might be broken | 16:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | mriedem: I was meaning API users | 16:10 |
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| mriedem | i don't see how a cinder ephemeral imagebackend is radically different from the API pov | 16:11 |
| mriedem | the api doesn't change | 16:11 |
| mriedem | the operator just says he wants to use cinder for storage on this compute host | 16:11 |
| mriedem | which is what that spec is also doing, probably with host aggregates tied to the marked flavors | 16:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | mriedem: the problem is we create user visible cinder volumes, that we didn't before, then we talk about customizing the volume type, and mixed diskless and non-diskless, and it all gets a bit tricky. | 16:11 |
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| mriedem | at the ptg we said that we could add the support for volume type via extra spec if we did cinder ephemeral imagebackend, | 16:13 |
| mriedem | which was a win for cburgess | 16:13 |
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| mriedem | i agree you get a user visible cinder volume that you wouldn't have before, | 16:14 |
| edleafe | ` /win 14 | 16:14 |
| mriedem | but i'm not sure that's a huge issue as long as it's marked for delete_on_termination=True | 16:14 |
| cburgess | What do we mean by "wouldn't have before"? | 16:14 |
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| mriedem | wouldn't have before "automatically" | 16:14 |
| mriedem | today you opt in to bfv | 16:14 |
| mriedem | this would have nova do it for you depending on which compute host you land on | 16:14 |
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| cburgess | OK right but, presumably it would be a deployer, or at least cloud admin, option to use the new as of yet unspeced nova roots on cinder idea. | 16:15 |
| mriedem | yes it would be | 16:15 |
| cburgess | So I don't think its a problem that users would see the cinder volumes. | 16:15 |
| mriedem | as would marking your flavors as local_disks=False like in https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/newton/approved/flavor-root-disk-none.html | 16:15 |
| cburgess | In pure BFV environments today they already deal with that. | 16:15 |
| mriedem | it's just with https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/newton/approved/flavor-root-disk-none.html if the user picks the wrong flavor or makes the wrong server create request, it will blow up | 16:16 |
| mriedem | and then they have to go back and figure out how to add bdms via the nova boot cli | 16:16 |
| cburgess | How so? | 16:16 |
| mriedem | which is not fun | 16:16 |
| cburgess | I'm not following. | 16:16 |
| mriedem | "The use case for End Users is to not create ephemeral (root) disks locally on the hypervisor by accident. When launching an instance from a flavor with disabled local disks, the user will be informed to create a bootable volume in order to launch the instance with that volume." | 16:16 |
| mriedem | "be informed" means 400 | 16:17 |
| mriedem | holy crap, just look at the proposed change minefield | 16:17 |
| mriedem | "error, when flavor create request with local_disks=False and root_gb > 0 and/or emphemeral_gb > 0 and/or swap_gb > 0" | 16:17 |
| mriedem | "return descriptive exception, when flavor with local_disks=False and requested image larger than given blockdevice layout" | 16:18 |
| mriedem | "if local_disks is omitted or set to True, root_gb is mandatory again" | 16:18 |
| mriedem | "if jupiter is aligned with saturn and it's a leap year, the api works, else 400" | 16:18 |
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| cburgess | Yeah this seems... sub-optimal. | 16:18 |
| cdent | what about when mercury is in retrograde? | 16:18 |
| cburgess | Why can't we use the rest of the info from the boot request and craft a BFV request for them. | 16:18 |
| mriedem | cdent: then all bets are off | 16:18 |
| mriedem | cburgess: that's probably https://review.openstack.org/#/c/432503/ | 16:19 |
| cburgess | Granted... turning off local disks is a really big deal/issue today and causes us issues. | 16:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | right, its not possible today, due to root_gb=0 meaning "don't resize image" | 16:20 |
| cburgess | mriedem Yeah but you killed that. So it seems to me that if we do local_disk=False we either need to build the BDM under the covers, or we need to allow the BDM in the flavor as well. | 16:20 |
| cburgess | johnthetubaguy How does that impact this exactly? | 16:20 |
| mriedem | if we build the bdm under the coveres if local_disk=False, that's the same thing as https://review.openstack.org/#/c/432503/ | 16:20 |
| mriedem | just a different attribute on the flavor | 16:20 |
| mriedem | ^ was doing is_bdm_flavor=True on the flavor | 16:20 |
| mriedem | same idea | 16:20 |
| cburgess | OK | 16:21 |
| cburgess | Well... | 16:21 |
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| johnthetubaguy | cburgess: people often assume 0 GB means no disk | 16:21 |
| cburgess | Honestly it seems reasonable to me. But then I thought that spec was reasonable to begin with. | 16:21 |
| cburgess | johnthetubaguy Well they are wrong :P | 16:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | cburgess: agreed | 16:21 |
| mriedem | cburgess: you're saying you like both ideas | 16:21 |
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| mriedem | the abandoned spec, and the extra specs / bfv thing | 16:21 |
| cburgess | mriedem I'm saying disks are a total and complete mess and we have to find ways of making this easier and better to consume because right now the whole thing is a confusing mess. | 16:21 |
| mriedem | cburgess: you like anything that gets rid of your local patches :) | 16:21 |
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| cburgess | mriedem Yes.. but... I have those local patches because things are a mess. So I like anything that makes a cleaner, easier to use system for users. | 16:22 |
| mriedem | yeah i know, | 16:22 |
| mriedem | if a cinder ephemeral imagebackend is never going to happen, then maybe we go with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/432503/ | 16:23 |
| mriedem | i just really dislike coupling two terrible tech debt things in nova, extra specs and bdms | 16:23 |
| mriedem | because that's bound to be a maintenance nightmare | 16:23 |
| cburgess | Well I think a cinder ephemeral imagebackend is a long term thing. Question is what, if anything, can we do in a cycle or two. | 16:23 |
| smcginnis | I've been seeing more and more requests for using Cinder as ephemeral storage. | 16:23 |
| mriedem | cburgess: nothing is happening in pike | 16:23 |
| mriedem | b/c nothing was proposed before spec freeze | 16:24 |
| mriedem | smcginnis: yes it has been for a long time, the question is how to best provide it w/o adding a bunch of tech debt to nova | 16:24 |
| cburgess | agreed | 16:24 |
| mriedem | as i said earlier, we already have apis that don't work with volume-backed instances | 16:24 |
| mriedem | like, maybe we should fix some of that... | 16:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | mriedem: but is that actually true? or just a bug? | 16:25 |
| cburgess | mriedem I know Boston isn't supposed to be a summit but... I kind of feel like we need a working session at some point to lay out what the correct roadmap for storage is. | 16:25 |
| mriedem | johnthetubaguy: bugs, but big hairy bugs | 16:25 |
| cdent | cburgess: hasn't that sesssion happened at every summit for the last several years? | 16:25 |
| cburgess | mriedem Because we have been dancing around these issues for 2 cycles nw. | 16:25 |
| mriedem | johnthetubaguy: cfriesen was just asking about volume-backed instance rebuild yesterday and how it doesn't work | 16:25 |
| stackempty | mriedem: so what would be my options for now .. to have something close to preventing local disk storage on the hypervisor ? | 16:26 |
| EmilienM | mriedem: hi, I was afk this morning. Please let me know how can I help wrt wsgi | 16:26 |
| mgagne | hehe, we used to have a similar need (default to BFV) in the past and implemented it with an ugly middleware: https://gist.github.com/mgagne/161bd7eaeb4c747fa1ae97c0bc43c093 | 16:26 |
| cburgess | cdent Sort of. We keep doing it in terms of a feature request or two from individual parties (multi-attach, volume-type, etc). | 16:26 |
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| * cdent nods | 16:26 | |
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| cburgess | cdent I'm thinking we need a more high level, ignoring all individual feature requests, what do we have now and where do we need to involve it too | 16:26 |
| mriedem | stackempty: it sounds like lots of providers have implemented downstream solutions | 16:26 |
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| mriedem | as cburgess and mgagne pointed out | 16:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | mriedem: OK, I guess we have concrete examples then | 16:26 |
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| mriedem | johnthetubaguy: i had something in the ML recently about how shelve/unshelve is just totally ignorant wrt volues | 16:27 |
| mriedem | *volumes | 16:27 |
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| mriedem | and we've had bugs open for over a year that haven't been resolved | 16:27 |
| cburgess | mriedem Another case for removing that feature | 16:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | mriedem: yeah, that whole feature is un finished, so I expected that of shelve | 16:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | cburgess: thats not a crazy plan | 16:28 |
| mriedem | mgagne: ok so that basically does https://review.openstack.org/#/c/432503/ | 16:28 |
| mriedem | just via paste middleware | 16:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | so is this a middle ground? | 16:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | we do https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/newton/approved/flavor-root-disk-none.html | 16:29 |
| cburgess | johnthetubaguy Never understood that one. | 16:29 |
| cburgess | johnthetubaguy The shelve/unshevle feature I mean | 16:29 |
| mgagne | mriedem: yea, idea was to not be intrusive to nova code, a bit like wafflehaus from rax | 16:29 |
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| johnthetubaguy | cburgess: it was to do "stop" instance for local disks, where you only pay for the IP when it is shelved | 16:30 |
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| cburgess | johnthetubaguy Creates all types of state and capacity management issues. | 16:30 |
| cburgess | johnthetubaguy Don't like it, never liked it, anywho.. back to storage. | 16:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | cburgess: allowing users to keep ports somehow, would be better | 16:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah | 16:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | ... so middle ground, possibly | 16:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | we do the 400 error if no BDMs | 16:31 |
| cburgess | Right.. | 16:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | once we have cinder backend in place | 16:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | the 400 becomes an auto create of that thing | 16:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | ... actually thats messed up in a heap of other ways :( | 16:31 |
| mriedem | johnthetubaguy: ^ means the api needs to know the compute is configured and capable of using cinder | 16:31 |
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| cburgess | Honestly its ugly to do the 400 but it operationally better then today where you end up with instances sprinkled on hypervisor local storage and having to work iwht users to migrate the data to a volume and rebuild the instance with a volume. | 16:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | mriedem: well, its a resource request, I think | 16:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | cburgess: thats where I am, but I am biased, its what public cloud carries as a patch right now | 16:32 |
| cburgess | Why do we need to do anything once we have the cinder backend? | 16:32 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so with cinder backend, you want to pick between local disk and cinder back end flavors | 16:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | so its more you get to re-use it | 16:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | meh, thats way too messy | 16:33 |
| cburgess | Well.. | 16:33 |
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| cburgess | So today you pick a storage backend by selecting an AZ/aggregate. | 16:33 |
| cburgess | Since you can only have a single one today | 16:33 |
| cburgess | I guess once we can support different storage backends on a single node. | 16:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | I guess, via flavor extra specs I presume? | 16:34 |
| cburgess | Correct | 16:34 |
| cburgess | So here is the thing | 16:34 |
| cburgess | Once we have the cinder backend we will have to be able to pass things like volume type, size ,etc. | 16:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah | 16:34 |
| cburgess | Some of them exist as existing attributes on flavors (root_gb) but others don't and will be required. | 16:34 |
| mriedem | type is the only one that's missing right? | 16:35 |
| mgagne | you can have a default volume type in cinder | 16:35 |
| cburgess | mriedem I would have to look at it and think about it. | 16:35 |
| mgagne | unless you wish for your flavor to default to a different one | 16:35 |
| cburgess | mgagne Thats not sufficient | 16:35 |
| cburgess | mgagne Right exactly. | 16:35 |
| cburgess | mgagne A single default of the entire cloud is... limiting. | 16:35 |
| mgagne | sure, we both agree =) | 16:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think the problem here is the middle layer about the Nova API hasn't ever come into existance | 16:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | s/about/above/ | 16:36 |
| mriedem | stackempty: remember 40 minutes ago when i said you stepped into something? :) | 16:36 |
| smcginnis | cburgess: +1 | 16:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | feels like we need the use cases writing up and agreeing to move forward | 16:36 |
| mriedem | johnthetubaguy: what is the middle layer about the nova api? the enamel idea? | 16:37 |
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| mriedem | *above | 16:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | mriedem: I think we thought heat might be that, but that turned out differently | 16:37 |
| mriedem | nova today, as-is, provides the APIs you need for something sitting on top to do this stuff | 16:37 |
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| mriedem | which is why we've always pushed back on adding volume type to the compute api | 16:37 |
| cburgess | mriedem johnthetubaguy I think we need to separate the flavor-root-disk-none and cinder backend idea entirely. The flavor-root-disk-none is a feature that regadless of backend disables a nova managed disk and requires BFV. It should be configured/enabled entirely independent of the cinder backend. | 16:38 |
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| cburgess | I think we should just return the 400, as painful as that is and don't do any other magic under the hood. | 16:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | its basically saying, for this flavor, that optional argument is required | 16:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | i mean thats messy, but all the other fixes seem miles out | 16:39 |
| mriedem | cburgess: specifically so you can tie those types of flavors to certain host aggregates? | 16:39 |
| cburgess | What do you mean by this optional argument is required? | 16:39 |
| mriedem | bdms are optional when creating a server | 16:39 |
| cburgess | Oh right yes. | 16:39 |
| mriedem | a flavor saying they are required makes them non-optional | 16:39 |
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| cburgess | What if instead of local_disk=True/False we call it bdm_only=True/False. If false use existing logic if True, require BMD and ignore root/ephemeral/etc on flavor. | 16:40 |
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| cburgess | That seems like it might be a bit cleaner and less confusing? | 16:40 |
| cburgess | or is it just symantics? | 16:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | but the bdm can have source=local | 16:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think | 16:41 |
| cburgess | What? | 16:41 |
| cburgess | Really? | 16:41 |
| mriedem | yes | 16:41 |
| mriedem | https://docs.openstack.org/developer/nova/block_device_mapping.html | 16:41 |
| cburgess | That makes it use the hypervisor local instance path? | 16:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | its maybe more volume_backed_disks_only=True | 16:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | cburgess: yup | 16:42 |
| cburgess | Dear lord... we made a mess. | 16:42 |
| mgagne | what's the use case? Have a flavor with source=volume only? no local whatsoever? | 16:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | cburgess: +1 | 16:42 |
| cburgess | mgagne Correct | 16:42 |
| cburgess | mgagne Make it impossible to ever have nova create disks of any type local to the hypervisors. | 16:42 |
| mgagne | like johnthetubaguy suggested, maybe we need to define the use cases that need to be supported because I see a lot of them | 16:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | so some of them have API workarounds, some don't | 16:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think the no_local_disk thing is the big one with no workarounds today | 16:43 |
| cburgess | johnthetubaguy mriedem The other way to do this is make it a confug option on the compute side. Not a flavor extra spec. | 16:43 |
| mriedem | nope | 16:43 |
| mgagne | you can already restrict with max_local_block_devices but I think it's system-wide, not per aggregate or flavor | 16:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | don't like configs changing the API behaviour | 16:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | cburgess: so you get it wrong, and you just get an instance in the error state, I guess? | 16:44 |
| cburgess | johnthetubaguy scheduler does it | 16:44 |
| cburgess | The compute node reports it can't host local disk | 16:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | you still get an instance in the error sate | 16:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think | 16:44 |
| mgagne | this means the request still manage to get to the scheduler, past the API | 16:44 |
| mriedem | not if the scheduler can find a host that supports local disk | 16:45 |
| cburgess | johnthetubaguy Thats not different then the 1000s of other things that the scheduler can barf on. | 16:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | mgagne: I totally didn't know that existed, you are right, its API level I think | 16:45 |
| mriedem | which eventually becomes a trait on the compute resource provider | 16:45 |
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| cburgess | mriedem Right which would be fine. If I want to support some local and some not that really a characteristic of the compute node directly. | 16:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | mgagne: oh, I see your point, its system wide not per flaovr | 16:45 |
| cburgess | mriedem Right.. I was thinking a trait. | 16:45 |
| mgagne | yea so we would need something flavor scoped | 16:46 |
| cburgess | This compute node can support local, this can't. | 16:46 |
| cburgess | But thats a long way out again. | 16:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | cburgess: yeah, I mean that all makes sense | 16:46 |
| mriedem | johnthetubaguy: i knew about max_local_block_devices because people thought if you set it to 0 it meant nova would automagically always do bfv for you | 16:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | mriedem: ah... right | 16:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | mriedem: I remember that coming up now you mention it | 16:46 |
| cburgess | I actually don't know what that setting does. | 16:46 |
| mgagne | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/BlockDeviceConfig#max_local_block_devices | 16:46 |
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| mriedem | cburgess: traits are closer than everything else at this point | 16:46 |
| mgagne | it's only to prevent DoS | 16:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | gives you 400 errors, I presume | 16:47 |
| mgagne | so people don't create an infinite amount of local disks | 16:47 |
| cburgess | Ahh... | 16:47 |
| cburgess | OK.. | 16:47 |
| mriedem | cburgess: so that's an alternative we haven't talked about before, | 16:47 |
| cburgess | mriedem Traits? | 16:47 |
| mriedem | traits on the resource provider to say it's local_disk=False | 16:47 |
| mriedem | then tag your flavor with local_disk=False | 16:47 |
| mriedem | scheduler / placement has to find a compute that matches those | 16:48 |
| cburgess | mriedem Why do we need to tag the flavr? | 16:48 |
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| melwitt | I thought BFV was supposed to get solved with placement. are you just talking about how to do it in placement? | 16:48 |
| cburgess | mriedem I'm not wild about having to set something in the flavor. | 16:48 |
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| cburgess | The fact that a compute node can or can not host local disks is something the compute node is aware of. | 16:48 |
| mriedem | cburgess: how are you going to know where to put instances? | 16:48 |
| cburgess | You shouldn't have to also set the right thing on a flavor. | 16:49 |
| cburgess | I flavor you should I need local disk and the compute node should be able to say "nope not me". | 16:49 |
| mriedem | so all of your bfv goes to the local_disk=False computes, and all non-bfv goes to the local_disk=True computes? | 16:49 |
| cburgess | mriedem Thinking through all the use cases... | 16:49 |
| mriedem | dansmith: super fun cells v2 meeting in 10 minutes i hope | 16:50 |
| cburgess | mriedem This is why I was suggesting a working sessions focused on this... | 16:50 |
| dansmith | oh yep | 16:50 |
| mriedem | cburgess: well, we have the forum session | 16:50 |
| dansmith | mriedem: didn't realize it was that late | 16:50 |
| cburgess | mriedem So many different use case | 16:50 |
| mriedem | cburgess: that's about as working as it's going to get at the summit | 16:50 |
| cburgess | mriedem I know... | 16:50 |
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| cburgess | mriedem How badly bike shedded would we get trying to do this on the ML? | 16:50 |
| cburgess | mriedem Where this = discuss different options. | 16:51 |
| openstackgerrit | melanie witt proposed openstack/nova master: Add get_count_by_vm_state() to Instance object https://review.openstack.org/446244 | 16:51 |
| openstackgerrit | melanie witt proposed openstack/nova master: Remove 'reserved' count from used limits https://review.openstack.org/446242 | 16:51 |
| openstackgerrit | melanie witt proposed openstack/nova master: Remove useless quota_usage_refresh from nova-manage https://review.openstack.org/446243 | 16:51 |
| openstackgerrit | melanie witt proposed openstack/nova master: Count instances to check quota https://review.openstack.org/416521 | 16:51 |
| openstackgerrit | melanie witt proposed openstack/nova master: Make Quotas object favor the API database https://review.openstack.org/410945 | 16:51 |
| openstackgerrit | melanie witt proposed openstack/nova master: Add online migration to move quotas to API database https://review.openstack.org/410946 | 16:51 |
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| mriedem | cburgess: idk, it's probably worth starting to prime the pump for that session at the forum, | 16:51 |
| mriedem | so we don't start a 40 minute session discussing all of the history and previously discussed options | 16:51 |
| mriedem | and then find out we have 5 minutes left with nothing new to say | 16:51 |
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| cburgess | mriedem What I don't like about most of the solutions we have discussed is that if you forget to flag a flavor correctly then it could get placed on a compute node that doesn't want local storage. | 16:52 |
| mriedem | cburgess: before starting a ML thread, | 16:52 |
| mriedem | maybe i start an etherpad, which i'll need for the session anyway, | 16:52 |
| cburgess | mriedem I feel like we need a method that ensures a compute node can assert that it can never ever host a local disk. | 16:52 |
| mriedem | and we can start listing the use cases and options, and pros/cons for each option | 16:52 |
| mgagne | maybe just list the use cases, we don't need to agree on the validity of the need, just list them, list associated workaround/limitations, etc. and start from there | 16:53 |
| mriedem | *then* put that in the ML for discussion | 16:53 |
| cburgess | mriedem Yeah.. lets start with an etherpad. Once we get it to an ok state we can post it to the ML. | 16:53 |
| cburgess | mriedem I like it. | 16:53 |
| cburgess | mgagne Right.. only rule out the most obviously insane ideas. | 16:53 |
| mriedem | mgagne: cburgess: i'll create an etherpad after the cells meeting and report back here | 16:53 |
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| cburgess | mriedem Rainbows | 16:53 |
| mgagne | we can list them and explain later why we can't or don't want to support them | 16:53 |
| mgagne | so people don't come back later and ask why that one isn't listed | 16:54 |
| mriedem | looks like the etherpads have started https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Forum/Boston2017 | 16:54 |
| mriedem | which was on my todo list anyway | 16:54 |
| cburgess | mgagne I'm only advocating ruling out things like "create a new top level openstack project" or other things of that level. | 16:54 |
| * johnthetubaguy looks forward to reviewing the etherpad | 16:54 | |
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| mordred | cdent: what does placement use in the id field of its version doc? | 17:06 |
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| cdent | mordred: the min version | 17:08 |
| cdent | which is a fudge | 17:08 |
| cdent | it might make sense to split on '.' and use [0] | 17:09 |
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| mordred | cdent: ok. so it does have a value in id | 17:14 |
| cdent | yeah, but it puts nothing in the url that indicates version and has no plan to | 17:14 |
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| sumedhdegaonkar | Hello all, this is my first review request, so please bear with me. I'd like to get your opinion/review of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/459794/ - It's just removing a restriction to use of 'sata' disk bus type for qemu and kvm. No change to default behavior or selection and hence in my opinion, no need to update test cases | 17:17 |
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| openstackgerrit | Rafael Folco proposed openstack/nova master: placement: Specific error for inventory in use https://review.openstack.org/460231 | 17:30 |
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| cdent | mriedem: way back in earlier conversation you mentioned a bug in gabbi with left hand side json path substitutions. I meant to link you to this: https://github.com/cdent/gabbi/issues/170 | 17:31 |
| cdent | but also to ask: was that germane to what were talking about at the time, or just an observation? | 17:31 |
| mriedem | it was related | 17:32 |
| mriedem | i was also looking through the gabbits for an example of a response | 17:32 |
| mriedem | to see the keys | 17:32 |
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| cdent | mriedem: I could fix that bug in the case you're talking about it is often easier to make the right hand side more complete (a structure instead of a string) | 17:33 |
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| mriedem | not a priority for me, i just noticed the comments in the gabbits about the limitation | 17:37 |
| mriedem | api-ref is the priority, | 17:37 |
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| mriedem | because then i don't need to look at gabbits | 17:37 |
| cdent | i regret slinging that name around | 17:38 |
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| openstackgerrit | Steven Webster proposed openstack/nova master: Improve comment for PCI port binding update https://review.openstack.org/460233 | 17:43 |
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| mriedem | mgagne: cburgess: johnthetubaguy: stackempty: here you go https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-forum-using-cinder-for-nova-ephemeral-storage | 17:51 |
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| cburgess | mriedem Are we open to having a 'short term' and a 'long term' set of goals and solutions? | 17:51 |
| mriedem | i think you could tag things that way | 17:52 |
| mriedem | i'm open to eating lunch | 17:52 |
| mriedem | so bbiab | 17:52 |
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| openstackgerrit | Lee Yarwood proposed openstack/nova master: libvirt: Refactor encryptor attach and detach calls https://review.openstack.org/460243 | 17:55 |
| openstackgerrit | Lee Yarwood proposed openstack/nova master: libvirt: Attach and detach encryptors during swap_volume https://review.openstack.org/460244 | 17:55 |
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| cburgess | mriedem Just doing that myself | 17:57 |
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| mgagne | cburgess: so there are 2 use cases? : 1) Provide a default BDM 2) Prevent/forbid source=local in BDM | 18:04 |
| mgagne | in fact, destination=local | 18:05 |
| dansmith | does anyone know if test_delete_server_while_in_building_state is known to be flaky at the moment? logstash doesn't seem to think it's spiking but I see plenty of failures that aren't in my patch, like even on periodic stable jobs | 18:06 |
| dansmith | mriedem: sdague ^ | 18:06 |
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| mgagne | cburgess: what do you think about the idea of having a "default bdm" for flavor-root-disk-none ? If you provide no BDM, the root_gb size is used to create a volume for you for your root disk. (flavor could also provide default volume type) This means no 400 HTTP error by default as a sane behavior/default is provided. An other extra spec or flavor attribute could forbid destination=local so if BDM is provided, it still respect the no-local-dis | 18:12 |
| mgagne | k policy. | 18:12 |
| cburgess | mgagne Thats a decent idea. Pull size from root_gb and image_id from request spec. | 18:12 |
| mgagne | yes | 18:12 |
| mgagne | that's basically what we did on our side | 18:13 |
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| mgagne | also this could allow Horizon or dashboard to present appropriate UI (default to BFV view or something like that) | 18:13 |
| mgagne | I also see 2 sub use cases: 1) flavor itself *never* support local disk. 2) specific compute nodes *never* want local disk. // One can be implemented without the other. | 18:14 |
| cburgess | Right so #2 is my biggest concern and the biggest pain right now. Ensuring it can never happen. Because if it does happen you end up with data a user might care about living on a single local disk on a compute node, and thats very bad. | 18:16 |
| mgagne | ok, can I take the liberty of splitting the use cases on etherpad? | 18:16 |
| cburgess | mgagne Sure | 18:17 |
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| openstackgerrit | OpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/os-vif master: Updated from global requirements https://review.openstack.org/451049 | 18:17 |
| cburgess | mgagne I prefer that actually as I think there are 2 orthogonal needs 1) Making BDM/cinder integration better, 2) Making sure we can block local disk. | 18:17 |
| mgagne | yes | 18:17 |
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| cburgess | mgagne #2 we should focus on a 1-2 cycle solution, for #1 we should take a step back and say whats need to really do this right (aka the cinder imagebackend). | 18:18 |
| mgagne | 100% agree | 18:18 |
| mgagne | what about ephemeral disks or swap? what's your take? | 18:19 |
| cburgess | Personally I love the idea of a cinder imagebackend but to do that right I think its going to require first rewritting the existing backends to have a much more modular and cleaner seperation. | 18:19 |
| mgagne | yes, I found the task to be near impossible without major refactor when I checked years ago, hence the middleware hack | 18:20 |
| cburgess | mgagne I don't understand the use case for either of those. Honestly I would vote to remove them from nova entirely but I know that wouldn't fly. The question is should we require all backends to support them or should we make those optional. | 18:20 |
| mordred | mgagne, cburgess: in the name of requesting absurd features from people while the local vs. remote disk discussion is taking place ... | 18:20 |
| cburgess | mgagne Right. We also have cases where things like instance_path are used both for the imagebackend and for non-imagebackend things like console logs, libvirt xml etc. So we have to get a clean separation there as well. | 18:20 |
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| cburgess | mordred Yes......? | 18:21 |
| mordred | no-local-disk is really useful in both keeping data protected and making sure live migration can happen well ... | 18:21 |
| erhudy | is the goal to eventually turn over all responsibility for block storage to cinder and remove it from nova entirely? | 18:21 |
| cburgess | erhudy Thats is not my goal. | 18:21 |
| cburgess | erhudy My goal is to provide an improved integration between nova and cinder. | 18:21 |
| mordred | but depending on workload, the user might also know "this node is part of an application-level high availablity set, killing it and its data rather than live-migrating it is fine" | 18:22 |
| mordred | especially when for those things locally attached things that behave like ephemeral disk does today is nice becaues of the lack of network latency hop between the vm and disk | 18:22 |
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| mgagne | cburgess: So having the ability to split imagebackend/disk from "hypervisor" (logs, xml) files is something an operator should be able to do? | 18:22 |
| cburgess | mordred Hmm hand't thought about that. data volume on cinder, but a local ephemeral disk for "fast" scratch. | 18:23 |
| mordred | yah | 18:23 |
| mordred | but as a user opt-in sort fo thing | 18:23 |
| mordred | since it's definitely a choice witha tradeoff involved | 18:23 |
| cburgess | mgagne Well.. I think the only way to truely make imagebackend modular enough to support cinder we would have to have that clean seperation since cinder isn't going to provide us a way of storing that data. | 18:23 |
| erhudy | cburgess: that can be done now | 18:23 |
| cburgess | erhudy Which thing? | 18:24 |
| mgagne | cburgess: that's the use case I can think of, like on SSD or NVMe | 18:24 |
| erhudy | data/root volumes on cinder with local storage ephemeral disk | 18:24 |
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| erhudy | what i keep coming back to as part of our architecture discussions here is wanting to be able to do something like AWS instance store volumes, which afaik doesn't really have an analogue in nova | 18:24 |
| cburgess | erhudy Yes I'm aware. mordred was pointing out that my state of "kill ephemeral in a fire" didn't take into acount that very valid use case. | 18:24 |
| mordred | cburgess: the mirror.*.openstack.org farm is a good example- the only things on the local disk are cache - everything else is stored somewhere else | 18:25 |
| erhudy | you can pass whatever you like to nova in the BDM but unless it matches your flavor it gets rejected | 18:25 |
| mordred | but we'd be totally fine with the datain the ephemeral going away for those nodes, and could opt-in at boot to that and _maybe_ that makes something better for someone somewhere | 18:26 |
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| mordred | "hey, we actually don't find the stuff in X precious, DNR" :) | 18:26 |
| erhudy | "ephemeral" in nova-ese is different from "ephemeral" in AWS-ese anyway, which confused a lot of our users | 18:26 |
| cburgess | mordred right. Its def a valid use case. We should make it possible for a user to request a local disk as well *if* the compute node supports it. | 18:26 |
| mordred | cburgess: ++ | 18:26 |
| cburgess | erhudy Its very confusing and something it would be good to clear up some as we think about what would be involved in "fixing" storage in nova. | 18:27 |
| mordred | there are definitely places where we're using cinder volumes for things that are totally non-precious because it's the only way we can get our hands on the disk | 18:27 |
| mgagne | cburgess: isn't this use case already supported? like have a flavor with local root + 1 ephemeral + 1 attached volume for your data. | 18:27 |
| erhudy | sounds like the sort of dilemma where you can ask 10 people and get 11 answers | 18:28 |
| cburgess | mordred We are seeing more and more client deploying there clouds that way. Some cinder integrated storage device and no local storage at all. | 18:28 |
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| mordred | cburgess: yah. I mean, in those cases we're fine using cinder- I just mostly don't want to stress out someone's storage backplane if there's cheaper/crappier disk available too | 18:28 |
| erhudy | we are leaning that way in our current greenfield setup, doing it all on ceph, but we may keep nova local storage around for certain use cases | 18:28 |
| mordred | for _some_ things | 18:28 |
| cburgess | mgagne Its is. The question is, if we are looking at designing a more modular imagebackend with a local, ceph, lvm, and now cinder plugin do we want to require all backends to support the use case or say "if you want this use case you must deploy this backend with this configuration". | 18:29 |
| mordred | cause if I'm doing, say, ceph _in_ the cloud - but I can only get disk via cinder which is on ceph _under_ the cloud | 18:29 |
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| mgagne | right, I have no answer to that one | 18:29 |
| erhudy | the downside of the local storage setup is, i can give somebody /dev/vda on local storage, if i make a special flavor with ephemeral defined i can give them /dev/vdb as well | 18:29 |
| mordred | then _wow_ is that data super extra redundant | 18:29 |
| cburgess | mordred Oh I agree completely. Not passing judgement on good or bad, just saying its a trend we are seeing with our clients. | 18:29 |
| erhudy | but no way to let them provision more local volumes after that | 18:29 |
| mordred | cburgess: ++ | 18:29 |
| mgagne | erhudy: sounds like a good idea | 18:30 |
| erhudy | it's only a good idea because nova storage doesn't get tracked in quota | 18:30 |
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| mgagne | I mean, do you want them to get more local disks or not? | 18:30 |
| erhudy | i want to be able to provide them the same thing they can get on AWS with instance store volumes | 18:30 |
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| erhudy | and me providing RBD via cinder is the analogue to EBS | 18:31 |
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| cburgess | mgagne So the hypervisor files aren't counting toward quota today, but they do count towards the available/used storage of the backend. | 18:32 |
| mgagne | for those that wonder what's instance store volumes: http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/UserGuide/InstanceStorage.html | 18:33 |
| cburgess | mgagne So *if* we split all that out we need to think about how that might impact scheduling decisions. | 18:33 |
| erhudy | that was why i originally asked about whether the idea was to eventually eliminate nova's block storage and just turn it all over to cinder | 18:33 |
| mgagne | cburgess: sure. more or less implementation details at this point. | 18:34 |
| cburgess | erhudy I'm not advocating removing the other backends. I'm simply advocating creating a clean separation so that a cinder backend is viable. | 18:34 |
| cburgess | mgagne Agreed | 18:34 |
| cburgess | As mordred pointed out there are viable use cases for the pure local option that nova offers today. | 18:35 |
| cburgess | But given how overload things like instance_path are today, it makes a clean separation difficult. | 18:35 |
| mgagne | erhudy: wow "data in the instance store is lost under the following circumstances: The instance stops" | 18:35 |
| erhudy | mgagne: okay, not _exactly_ the same thing | 18:36 |
| mgagne | just reading about the concept for now | 18:36 |
| cburgess | mgagne Yeah instance storage on AWS is *super* ephemeral. | 18:36 |
| erhudy | but fundamentally the ability to be able to provision extra volumes that will land on local storage versus going to some replicated backend | 18:36 |
| jaypipes | holy channel traffic... man, I need to read back a whole bunch... | 18:36 |
| erhudy | without having to create new flavors where the only difference is some have ephemeral disk sizes specified and some don't | 18:37 |
| mgagne | however it's only available at creation time right? | 18:37 |
| openstackgerrit | Artom Lifshitz proposed openstack/nova master: Plumbing for tagged nic attachment https://review.openstack.org/415622 | 18:37 |
| openstackgerrit | Artom Lifshitz proposed openstack/nova master: Delete nic metadata when detaching interface https://review.openstack.org/435387 | 18:37 |
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| openstackgerrit | Artom Lifshitz proposed openstack/nova master: Libvirt support for tagged volume attachment https://review.openstack.org/418100 | 18:37 |
| cburgess | jaypipes Don't worry we made it all a placement problem. | 18:37 |
| openstackgerrit | Artom Lifshitz proposed openstack/nova master: Delete disk metadata when detaching volume https://review.openstack.org/435082 | 18:37 |
| openstackgerrit | Artom Lifshitz proposed openstack/nova master: Plumbing for tagged volume attachment https://review.openstack.org/391941 | 18:37 |
| openstackgerrit | Artom Lifshitz proposed openstack/nova master: API support for tagged device attachment https://review.openstack.org/376021 | 18:37 |
| jaypipes | thx Chet :) | 18:37 |
| openstackgerrit | Artom Lifshitz proposed openstack/nova master: Libvirt support for tagged nic attachment https://review.openstack.org/415520 | 18:37 |
| cburgess | jaypipes Just felt like the right thing to do. | 18:37 |
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| erhudy | mgagne: yes, they have to be added at launch time | 18:38 |
| erhudy | "they" being instance store volumes | 18:38 |
| erhudy | so it's effectively letting the user specify the number and size of ephemeral disks they want instead of the operator encoding it into the flavor | 18:38 |
| mgagne | erhudy: right. can you explain what's the purpose of the table found on this page? Is it some kind of limitations/specs per flavor? Like you can create "up to" the limits mentioned? http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/UserGuide/InstanceStorage.html#instance-store-volumes | 18:39 |
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| erhudy | yeah, i don't know where the particular restrictions on each instance type come from, i assume it has to do with the physical characteristics of the SKUs they run on | 18:41 |
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| mgagne | for example, the C3 instance types here: https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/ The listed SSD storage matches the ones found in the table above. So I feel it's a bunch of instance store volume provided by default, you don't have the choice of the number or size? | 18:43 |
| erhudy | i will walk through instance launch for a c3.large and tell you in 3 minutes | 18:44 |
| mgagne | you are a winner | 18:45 |
| mgagne | because if they are ALL provided by default, it would be the same as ephemeral disks provided by Nova (missing the fact that you lose your data if you stop the instance) | 18:46 |
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| mriedem | dansmith: haven't heard anything about that test spiking | 18:47 |
| dansmith | mriedem: okay I figure it must be something in my stuff, I just don't know what.. I'm stacking now locally to try and poke at ti | 18:47 |
| erhudy | mgagne: the way it looks on the add storage step for the default amazon linux AMI (which is on EBS) is i see root, /dev/xvda | 18:47 |
| erhudy | then i can add instance store 0, and then instance store 1 | 18:48 |
| erhudy | they are not there by default | 18:48 |
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| mgagne | does the limit match the table? Can you add 20 disks if you want? | 18:48 |
| erhudy | no, i can only add those 2 | 18:48 |
| mgagne | table mentions 2 x 16 GB (32 GB) | 18:48 |
| erhudy | so it matches that quantity given | 18:48 |
| mgagne | with no choice of size? | 18:48 |
| erhudy | no choice of size, it doesn't even show a size in the table | 18:49 |
| mgagne | like it's 16GB or nothing | 18:49 |
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| mgagne | ok | 18:49 |
| mgagne | so this could be done with bdm where destination=ephemeral in Nova? | 18:49 |
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| erhudy | it could, yeah | 18:50 |
| mgagne | and find a way to limit/define the number/size of ephemeral disks per flavor | 18:50 |
| erhudy | so expanding the existing ephemeral functionality and making it an "up to" sort of thing on the flavor? | 18:50 |
| mgagne | erhudy: AFAIK, the number of ephemeral disks is hardcoded no? you can't have 20 for example | 18:51 |
| erhudy | the max number is part of the EC2 instance type, yeah | 18:51 |
| erhudy | so if i back this launch request out and try another one, one sec | 18:52 |
| mgagne | I mean, in Nova, I think the limit is 1 ephemeral disk as per ephemeral_gb field | 18:52 |
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| erhudy | so like, if i pick f1.16xlarge, i'm now allowed to provision up to 4 instance store volumes | 18:52 |
| erhudy | per that table | 18:52 |
| mgagne | logic/behavior looks sane so far | 18:53 |
| erhudy | the main thing i like about the AWS model is by default you get 0, but you can go up to however many are allowed by the instance type, and you don't need to have separate flavors for 0 versus 1+ | 18:54 |
| openstackgerrit | Moshe Levi proposed openstack/os-vif master: WIP Revert "Revert "hardware offload support for openvswitch"" Don't merge until OVS patches are upstream This reverts commit f154ef9cc8f9a14273b7c48ac29cb828cd25109a. https://review.openstack.org/460278 | 18:54 |
| mgagne | erhudy: well, there is a sane policy/default provided per flavor. Some just requires you to have EBS, no local disks. | 18:54 |
| erhudy | yes | 18:55 |
| erhudy | which probably goes back to the SKUs that instance type runs on | 18:55 |
| erhudy | the EC2 guys probably curse local storage as much as openstack operators do | 18:55 |
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| erhudy | and said "let's have some SKUs where we don't have to deal with local storage" | 18:56 |
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| mgagne | yes + less complaints from people screaming: where did my data go? | 18:58 |
| eandersson | Hey - is having redundant memcached server for nova-novnc an issue in Mitaka? | 18:58 |
| eandersson | Every other request fails with two memcached servers enabled. | 18:58 |
| erhudy | do you have memcached binding to an external interface and not localhost? | 18:59 |
| erhudy | mgagne: i don't necessarily advocate the AWS model of ephemeral/instance store volumes vaporizing everything on reboot | 18:59 |
| erhudy | i'd have to ask around to find why it works that way | 19:00 |
| mgagne | sure, no judgement for or against the behavior here =) | 19:00 |
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| mgagne | erhudy: could be that after an instance is stopped, there is no guaranty you will start on the same host later? | 19:00 |
| erhudy | mgagne: that's my guess | 19:01 |
| erhudy | part of why i want to retain local storage despite the inconveniences is because our distributed storage backend is ceph, which is great, but without per-client metrics and being able to provision IOPS on each client a single noisy neighbor can make the entire ceph cluster miserable | 19:01 |
| erhudy | that's a separate discussion we're having with red hat | 19:01 |
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| openstackgerrit | Chris Dent proposed openstack/nova master: Add pbr-installed wsgi application for metadata api https://review.openstack.org/459413 | 19:02 |
| mriedem | dansmith: did you see this? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/433476/ | 19:03 |
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| openstackgerrit | Rick Bartra proposed openstack/nova master: Add policy granularity to the Flavors API https://review.openstack.org/449288 | 19:05 |
| dansmith | mriedem: hah no | 19:09 |
| jaypipes | edleafe, dansmith, cdent, mriedem: https://review.openstack.org/460281 | 19:09 |
| eandersson | erhudy, you mean localhost+second memcached? | 19:09 |
| eandersson | or just a single memcached? | 19:10 |
| dansmith | mriedem: I agree, it seems silly to not allow deleting the cell0 record.. it's the one cell record you _can_ delete and recreate if needed | 19:10 |
| mriedem | the bug report is pretty thin, | 19:10 |
| mriedem | it just says "you shouldn't be able to do this" | 19:10 |
| mriedem | entirely opinionated | 19:10 |
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| dansmith | mriedem: yeah.. | 19:10 |
| mriedem | dansmith: i'd +2 if you revert | 19:10 |
| cdent | jaypipes: that's quite the name. will look more closely soon (which might include tomorrow morning) | 19:11 |
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| dansmith | mriedem: cool, I think it's probably worth reverting | 19:11 |
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| edleafe | jaypipes: why not build that on top of the automated import patch? | 19:12 |
| openstackgerrit | Dan Smith proposed openstack/nova master: Revert "Prevent delete cell0 in nova-manage command" https://review.openstack.org/460284 | 19:13 |
| dansmith | mriedem: ^ | 19:13 |
| mriedem | jaypipes: comments / questions inline | 19:15 |
| erhudy | eandersson: if every other request is failing it sounds like it's trying to round-robin between the memcached instances and can hit one but not the other | 19:15 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: because it's not related... it's a different branch. | 19:15 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: if the auto-import merges first, I'll quickly rebase. no biggie. | 19:15 |
| erhudy | so, iptables or memcached configuration seem like possible culprits | 19:16 |
| mriedem | melwitt: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/460284/ | 19:16 |
| eandersson | erhudy, every other nova service works fine though | 19:16 |
| eandersson | it's just nova-novnc that is having issues with this configuration | 19:16 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: just thought I'd save ya some of that ugly typing... :-P | 19:17 |
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| eandersson | but yes it looks like it is round-robin | 19:17 |
| erhudy | maybe strace nova-novncproxy and see what it's sad about? strace is usually what i turn to in Mysterious Situations | 19:18 |
| erhudy | or strace memcached, even | 19:19 |
| erhudy | once upon a time i had strange issues after going kilo->liberty and strace revealed it was because liberty was using memcached more aggressively and memcached had silently run out of connections | 19:19 |
| erhudy | we can take this over to #openstack though instead of filling up dev chat with ops stuff | 19:19 |
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| melwitt | mriedem: +W | 19:21 |
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| melwitt | jaypipes: thanks for braving the quota patches. working on replies | 19:27 |
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| jaypipes | mriedem: answerd. | 19:32 |
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| jaypipes | melwitt: sure, no prob. it's a mess in there :) | 19:32 |
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| melwitt | jaypipes: I tried to make it make sense but I failed, so sorry about that :( | 19:34 |
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| jaypipes | melwitt: and you're not the cause of the indecipherability :) | 19:35 |
| melwitt | my goal was to code comment it enough to where laypersons could understand it | 19:35 |
| melwitt | because learning it myself was extremely painful and wanted to make it easier for others | 19:36 |
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| melwitt | jaypipes: the dicts returned from count() are evil and that was me, I will try to think of another way | 19:37 |
| jaypipes | melwitt: yeah, I hear ya. definitely not bemoaning your code. it's just a pit of vipers in general. | 19:38 |
| melwitt | I know. not taken that way :) | 19:38 |
| jaypipes | k, cool :) | 19:38 |
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| mriedem | jaypipes: ok, replied in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/460281/ as well, | 19:43 |
| melwitt | mriedem: been meaning to tell you about this, I found a bug in the BackOffLoopingCall that was causing that ironic test to timeout intermittently (160s test timeout whereas the backoff timeout should have expired well before that) https://review.openstack.org/#/c/459790/ | 19:43 |
| mriedem | jaypipes: also mentioned at a higher level that i don't know that the plan as you describe it in there is actually written down anywhere | 19:43 |
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| mriedem | melwitt: heh, nice, i guess that really bugged you | 19:44 |
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| jaypipes | mriedem: I got dinged for being too verbose in specs, then dinged for not having everything written down ahead of time... | 19:45 |
| jaypipes | can't win for losin. | 19:45 |
| melwitt | mriedem: yup, I became obsessed with it | 19:46 |
| mriedem | jaypipes: i know | 19:46 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: I'll try to write something up tomorrow. | 19:46 |
| mriedem | jaypipes: i'm +2 on the change after you explained the plan, i just wouldn't have known otherwise | 19:46 |
| jaypipes | understood. | 19:46 |
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| mordred | jaypipes: write down more things, but then delete hide them | 19:52 |
| jaypipes | heh | 19:52 |
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| mriedem | jaypipes: dansmith: anything off the top of your head that we already know is going to be a focus for queens? besides just anything that doesn't make pike? things that come to mind are volume multiattach, cinder ephemeral / no local disk | 19:59 |
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| mriedem | removing caching scheduler isn't really a feature | 19:59 |
| mriedem | but claims in scheduler would be required in queens | 20:00 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: VGPU. | 20:00 |
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| dansmith | mriedem: full shared storage, shared network reporting and stuff | 20:00 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: port pair allocations with SR-IOV. | 20:00 |
| dansmith | mriedem: hopefully some locality/affinity in placement | 20:00 |
| openstackgerrit | Abhishek Sharma M proposed openstack/nova master: Catching OverQuota Exception https://review.openstack.org/455118 | 20:00 |
| openstackgerrit | Abhishek Sharma M proposed openstack/nova master: Catching OverQuota Exception https://review.openstack.org/460293 | 20:00 |
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| dansmith | yeah, GPU and SRIOV love in placement | 20:00 |
| jaypipes | dansmith: yeah. ++ on affinity stuff. | 20:00 |
| jaypipes | heh, much love. | 20:01 |
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| cburgess | dansmith mriedem Thinking fill shared storage and cinder ephemeral both probably depend on a re-write of the imagebackend interface and creating cleaner seperation and modularization of that area of the code. | 20:04 |
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| dansmith | that's at least a cycle of work probably | 20:05 |
| dansmith | unless it's all we do | 20:05 |
| cburgess | dansmith Probably right. Just trying to figure out how we could do shared storage or a cinder backend properly without fixing that dumpster fire induced miasma. | 20:07 |
| dansmith | TIL a new word | 20:07 |
| cburgess | lol | 20:07 |
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| cburgess | miasma? | 20:08 |
| dansmith | no "shared" | 20:08 |
| dansmith | yes miasma :P | 20:08 |
| cburgess | I try and educate as well as provide bad ideas, and donuts, to the nova community. | 20:09 |
| cburgess | Its just one of my many redeeming qualities. | 20:09 |
| dansmith | and we thank you for it | 20:09 |
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| * dansmith nods | 20:09 | |
| sean-k-mooney | jaypipes: do you think the user controlled port pair allocations will slip to queens? | 20:10 |
| jaypipes | sean-k-mooney: considering it didn't land for Pike... yes. | 20:11 |
| sean-k-mooney | jaypipes: i have been getting some question lately about doing bonding with sriov for ha and performacne which would need that | 20:11 |
| sean-k-mooney | oh ya we are past spec deadline | 20:11 |
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| openstackgerrit | Rafael Folco proposed openstack/nova master: placement: Specific error for inventory in use https://review.openstack.org/460231 | 20:15 |
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| mriedem | jaypipes: i don't know what "port pair allocations with SR-IOV" means | 20:29 |
| mriedem | dansmith: isn't gpu/sriov love in placement == nested resource providers == pike? | 20:30 |
| dansmith | mriedem: there's virt driver work that needs to be done that I don't think is going to happen in pike | 20:31 |
| dansmith | certainly for gpu | 20:31 |
| mriedem | anything forward looking for cells v2 in queens? | 20:33 |
| mriedem | besides fix all the bugs we introduce in pike? :) | 20:33 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/182242/ | 20:33 |
| mriedem | oh i suppose integration of limits in keystone | 20:33 |
| jaypipes | ++ | 20:33 |
| mriedem | jaypipes: oh right, that spec... | 20:33 |
| dansmith | mriedem: well, yeah, all the bugs, but also presumably we'll have plenty of performance things to work out | 20:34 |
| mriedem | jaypipes: that's the one where the "user" is a single tenant NFV machine right? | 20:34 |
| mriedem | ok here is the list: "VGPU support, full shared storage/network reporting and affinity support in the placement service, volume multi-attach, Cinder as ephemeral backend, integration of limits in Keystone, Cells v2 hardening." | 20:35 |
| mriedem | "+ delete shelve" | 20:35 |
| mriedem | :) | 20:36 |
| dansmith | you have my vote | 20:36 |
| dansmith | HTTP 420: Sorry I dunno where I left that shelve feature.. please try again... uh, never. | 20:36 |
| mriedem | stoner apis | 20:36 |
| mriedem | psh | 20:36 |
| dansmith | heh | 20:36 |
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| jaypipes | mriedem: yes. | 20:37 |
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| mriedem | (optional) Do you have questions for users that can help inform/guide your development teams? | 20:40 |
| mriedem | oh boy | 20:40 |
| mriedem | i can't remember what i asked about this for pike | 20:40 |
| mriedem | "do you use any microversion > 2.1?" | 20:41 |
| mriedem | that could be a legit question | 20:41 |
| openstackgerrit | Abhishek Sharma M proposed openstack/nova master: Catching OverQuota Exception https://review.openstack.org/460305 | 20:41 |
| dansmith | hah | 20:41 |
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| mriedem | b/c we're always coding 18 months ahead at least | 20:41 |
| mriedem | and have no idea | 20:41 |
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| mriedem | "While the majority of users aren’t currently using Nova cells, about 146 deployments reported using cells, which is substantially more than the 67 users reporting using Nova cells one year ago. " | 20:51 |
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| abhi89 | johnthetubaguy: Hi | 20:53 |
| abhi89 | Hi all.. can someone please review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/460305/ | 20:55 |
| mordred | mriedem: I fully expect to start consuming microversions in the next 6 months | 20:55 |
| mriedem | oh right this was the question | 20:55 |
| mriedem | "How important is it to be able to customize Nova in your deployment? e.g. classload your own managers/drivers, use hooks, plug in API extensions, etc." | 20:55 |
| mordred | I was very happy to see the low numbers of "we use this extensively" | 20:56 |
| mriedem | 51% not important, 39% somewhat, 10% very | 20:56 |
| mordred | s/low/lowish/ | 20:56 |
| jaypipes | dansmith: you're gonna love all this shared resource provider SQL... | 20:57 |
| * edleafe has this image of mordred sitting at a dining table, gulping down micronversions | 20:57 | |
| mriedem | i see that neutron asked about actual feature usage/adoption | 20:57 |
| mriedem | that's something we could breakdown at some point, and have wondered about, i.e. does anyone actually use shelve? | 20:58 |
| mordred | edleafe: I'll try to start with an amuse bouche, but that's probably not too far off | 20:58 |
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| mordred | mriedem: I don't | 20:58 |
| mriedem | page 60 https://www.openstack.org/assets/survey/April2017SurveyReport.pdf | 20:59 |
| mriedem | breaking something down like that in nova wouldn't be trivial | 21:00 |
| mordred | no - but it would be worthwhile | 21:00 |
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| dansmith | more than twice as many people patch in an unmaintained docker driver than use the in-tree xen support | 21:02 |
| dansmith | I'll remember that next time I have to fix something in there | 21:02 |
| cfriesen | I'm curious...are we expecting that eventually nova-api won't need a connection to the main nova db? | 21:02 |
| mordred | dansmith: that also highlights one of the big disconnects between what users want and what developers are funded to work on/maintain | 21:03 |
| dansmith | mordred: well, might've been a disconnect a couple weeks ago, but yeah | 21:03 |
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| openstackgerrit | Steve Noyes proposed openstack/nova master: Add Cinder v3 detach to local_cleanup https://review.openstack.org/456851 | 21:05 |
| mriedem | dansmith: heh, and lxc more than both of those | 21:07 |
| dansmith | yeah | 21:07 |
| mriedem | which if people are using lxc, | 21:07 |
| mriedem | i'd sure like them to upstream their patch that makes the CI not completely fall over itself when deleting an instance | 21:07 |
| dansmith | heh yeah | 21:07 |
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| mriedem | i'd like to ask for feedback on newish things like placement and cells v2 but with a bunch of deployments on kilo, that's going to be hard to get | 21:12 |
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| openstackgerrit | Rick Bartra proposed openstack/nova master: Add policy granularity to the Flavors API https://review.openstack.org/449288 | 21:14 |
| mriedem | 1. Are you using REST API microversions > 2.1? | 21:14 |
| mriedem | 2. Have you started evaluating or testing the Placement service? | 21:14 |
| mriedem | 3. Have you started evaluating or testing Cells v2? | 21:14 |
| mriedem | is my list right now | 21:14 |
| cfriesen | mriedem: speaking of cells v2, the Newton release notes don't talk about the increase in the number of DB connections due to the need for services to talk to both DBs. | 21:14 |
| mriedem | cfriesen: sorry i saw your earlier question about the api | 21:15 |
| mriedem | cfriesen: i think you can disable the api from going directly to the db | 21:15 |
| dansmith | mriedem: you can't | 21:15 |
| mriedem | i was trying to answer this for someone internally last night | 21:15 |
| dansmith | and I have no plans to head that way | 21:15 |
| mriedem | dansmith: i thought you could make the api use the conductor indirection api? | 21:15 |
| dansmith | not unless someone added it and I didn't know | 21:15 |
| mriedem | like https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/cmd/compute.py#L53 | 21:15 |
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| dansmith | nope | 21:16 |
| mriedem | no it's not in tree upstream | 21:16 |
| dansmith | I can't imagine that not sucking balls | 21:16 |
| dansmith | of course, apparently we're fine with ~10s nova-list operations, so.. maybe nobody cares | 21:16 |
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| mriedem | cfriesen: have you enabled the cells v2 stuff in newton? because it's not required there yet | 21:17 |
| mriedem | cfriesen: bully if you have | 21:17 |
| mriedem | i'm interested in feedback | 21:17 |
| dansmith | mriedem: well, api db was required in newton right? | 21:17 |
| mriedem | we don't really get any sort of performance feedback upstream | 21:17 |
| mriedem | dansmith: api db has been required for several releases before newton | 21:18 |
| mriedem | i think liberty? | 21:18 |
| mriedem | for reqspec | 21:18 |
| dansmith | yeah, he was asking about increased connections for api/nova db right? | 21:18 |
| cfriesen | mriedem: no, our clouds are small enough we don't use cells. but we did see nova basically doubling the number of DB connections going from Mitaka to Newton. | 21:18 |
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| mriedem | actually i guess reqspec was mitaka https://review.openstack.org/#/c/211753/ | 21:19 |
| mriedem | so what's hitting the api db in newton? build request right? | 21:20 |
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| cfriesen | mriedem: yeah, I see the api db in mitaka | 21:20 |
| clarkb | dansmith: we cache the list results for that reason | 21:21 |
| mriedem | in newton i suppose we are using build request and looking up instance, host and cellmappings even if we're just getting NotFounds | 21:21 |
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| dansmith | clarkb: yeah, it's sad | 21:21 |
| clarkb | (as well as caching everyting else) | 21:21 |
| cfriesen | mriedem: aggregates maybe? | 21:21 |
| dansmith | cfriesen: no | 21:21 |
| mriedem | flavors are in the api db | 21:21 |
| mriedem | and keypairs, and aggregates, and server groups | 21:22 |
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| mriedem | and those are doing online data migrations | 21:22 |
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| cfriesen | we use aggregates and flavor extra specs a lot | 21:23 |
| mriedem | so we might have some overhead for checking for online data migrations which are not necessary once you've migrated everything | 21:23 |
| melwitt | for any target_cell, a new oslo.db _TransactionContextManager will be created to make the connection | 21:24 |
| clarkb | dansmith: that said we peaked booting at 30k instances a day across multiple clouds/regions so 10s isn't the end of the world | 21:24 |
| clarkb | dansmith: and I'm guessing more users do far less so its not a major headache | 21:24 |
| dansmith | clarkb: well, it still sucks, don't try to convince me :) | 21:24 |
| clarkb | oh I agree, just trying to point out why people probably don' | 21:24 |
| clarkb | t scream at you | 21:24 |
| melwitt | dansmith: is the 10s sans novaclient or is it novaclient? | 21:24 |
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| mriedem | yeah doesn't novaclient look up the image for every instance to show the image name in the output? | 21:25 |
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| mriedem | cfriesen: https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/cmd/manage.py#L602 | 21:26 |
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| mriedem | should give you an idea of online data migrations added in newton | 21:26 |
| mriedem | which is a lot | 21:26 |
| cfriesen | mriedem: thanks. so basically most nova services would be expected to have connections open to both DBs now? | 21:26 |
| mriedem | cfriesen: only nova-api, conductor and scheduler | 21:27 |
| cfriesen | right, the heavyduty ones other than nova-compute | 21:27 |
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| mriedem | cfriesen: have you guys done any profiling of where the worst hits are? | 21:28 |
| cfriesen | not yet...someone was just complaining about maybe needing to bump up the limit on overall DB connections. | 21:28 |
| mriedem | dansmith: we should maybe look at blocker migrations for pike so we can stop dropping these older online data migration routines | 21:28 |
| mriedem | s/stop/start/ | 21:28 |
| mriedem | :) | 21:28 |
| dansmith | hah, was confused | 21:28 |
| dansmith | sure, but they're not that expensive so I've been working on other stuff | 21:29 |
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| mriedem | wonder if any of the versioned notification stuff is blowing up perf by doing lazy-loads | 21:30 |
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| mriedem | yeah i guess with like the online flavor migrations, those are all of the style where we looking in the api db first, then fallback to looking in the main cell db | 21:33 |
| mriedem | we don't migrate those in the object code, we leave that for the online_data_migrations CLI | 21:33 |
| mriedem | cfriesen: have you guys been running the online_data_migrations CLIs in newton? | 21:33 |
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| mriedem | dansmith: so say i wanted to remove all of the api->cell_db checking code in the flavor object during the lookup methods, are the steps add a blocker db migration, then drop the compat code in the flavor object, but leave https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/cmd/manage.py#L604 since you need that to get through the blocker migration | 21:36 |
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| mriedem | this doesn't buy us anything for perf, but it would drop all of that compat code in the flavor object | 21:36 |
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| dansmith | mriedem: historically we've done the blocker and then removed it, saying you had to use N-1 code to do the migration | 21:37 |
| dansmith | but those were thigns we really wanted to drop | 21:37 |
| dansmith | and it was all intertwined with object code | 21:37 |
| dansmith | and, we always do blockers as the first migration | 21:37 |
| mriedem | yeah i figured we wouldn't have to here b/c the object code isn't doing a migration | 21:37 |
| dansmith | potentially | 21:37 |
| mriedem | before you start using multiple cells you should really have your flavors in the api db | 21:38 |
| dansmith | yes :) | 21:38 |
| mriedem | in fact.... | 21:38 |
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| mriedem | multi-cell basically breaks the lookup routine since we don't know which cell db to fallback to if the flavor isn't in the api db | 21:38 |
| mriedem | so we kind of need to drop all of that code anyway i'd think | 21:39 |
| dansmith | I'm confinced | 21:39 |
| dansmith | convinced even | 21:39 |
| mriedem | are we unable to do this if the blocker migration isn't the first migration for pike? | 21:40 |
| dansmith | no, we did that to avoid you being able to keep running on N-1 code | 21:40 |
| dansmith | like, we tweak your db, then tell you you can't run N without migrating in N-1, | 21:40 |
| dansmith | but N-1 might choke on the tweaks | 21:40 |
| dansmith | that would be evil | 21:41 |
| dansmith | if you're not dropping the migration code, then I guess you could do it | 21:41 |
| mriedem | right that's why i said we still keep https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/cmd/manage.py#L604 | 21:41 |
| mriedem | but you really need to purge this stuff out of your main cell db and get it into api before you can do multiple cells | 21:42 |
| mriedem | maybe a nice reminder for your summit talk :) | 21:42 |
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| dansmith | heh | 21:44 |
| mriedem | so https://review.openstack.org/#/c/374307/ | 21:45 |
| mriedem | we already enforced this in ocata :) | 21:45 |
| dansmith | flavors yeah | 21:46 |
| mriedem | and keypairs, aggregates and server groups | 21:46 |
| dansmith | and those yeah | 21:46 |
| * dansmith is helping | 21:46 | |
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| openstackgerrit | Dan Smith proposed openstack/nova master: WIP: De-complicate some of the instance delete path https://review.openstack.org/458636 | 21:48 |
| openstackgerrit | Dan Smith proposed openstack/nova master: Move to proper target_cell calling convention https://review.openstack.org/458634 | 21:48 |
| openstackgerrit | Dan Smith proposed openstack/nova master: Make target_cell() yield a new context https://review.openstack.org/458635 | 21:48 |
| openstackgerrit | Dan Smith proposed openstack/nova master: DNM: Canary test against multi-cell devstack https://review.openstack.org/458537 | 21:48 |
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| efried | mordred Still around? | 22:09 |
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