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| openstackgerrit | Shaik Apsar proposed openstack/mistral: Fix for YaqlEvaluationException in std.create_instance workflow. https://review.openstack.org/340421 | 04:30 |
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| rakhmerov | hparekh: here? Can you pls review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/340421 | 04:32 |
| rakhmerov | we overlooked a nasty bug in a standard workflow | 04:32 |
| hparekh | rakhmerov, yeah ok sure | 04:33 |
| rakhmerov | it's super simple | 04:33 |
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| rakhmerov | ddeja: hi, can you please look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/mistral/+bug/1602003 ? | 04:47 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1602003 in Mistral "No such option in group DEFAULT: rpc_backend" [Critical,New] - Assigned to Dawid Deja (dawid-deja-0) | 04:47 |
| rakhmerov | my guess is that it was introduced by one of your recent patches | 04:47 |
| rakhmerov | rpc_utils.py has the line: | 04:48 |
| rakhmerov | if CONF.rpc_backend in ['rabbit', 'fake']: | 04:48 |
| openstackgerrit | Renat Akhmerov proposed openstack/mistral-specs: Fixing typos in Custom API spec https://review.openstack.org/340282 | 04:51 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/mistral: Fix for YaqlEvaluationException in std.create_instance workflow. https://review.openstack.org/340421 | 05:13 |
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| Ravikiran_K | Hi | 06:44 |
| Ravikiran_K | i have a question, what are the things that Mistral do where Heat can not? | 06:46 |
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| rakhmerov | Ravikiran_K: workflow | 07:04 |
| rakhmerov | distributed workflow | 07:04 |
| Ravikiran_K | ok.... can we replace Heat with Mistral? | 07:06 |
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| rakhmerov | who do you mean by "we"? | 07:08 |
| rakhmerov | Ravikiran_K: please give us more background | 07:08 |
| rakhmerov | what are you trying to solve etc. | 07:09 |
| rakhmerov | Heat and Mistral are completely different technologies | 07:09 |
| rakhmerov | I just don't know what specifically you're interested in | 07:09 |
| rakhmerov | need more info | 07:09 |
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| mflobo | Ravikiran_K, I'd say that the main difference would be the CRON concept that Mistral has | 07:20 |
| mflobo | Ravikiran_K, I would say that Mistral is not a replacement of Heat | 07:21 |
| mflobo | Ravikiran_K, but as rakhmerov said, if you provide more info about your use case maybe we can help more | 07:22 |
| rakhmerov | Cron is only a small part of it | 07:23 |
| Ravikiran_K | i am just trying to understand the difference between the heat and mistral | 07:23 |
| Ravikiran_K | what are the things that heat is doing can achieve with mistral right? | 07:25 |
| rakhmerov | in Heat you describe resources, the state of the environment that you want to get at the end | 07:25 |
| Ravikiran_K | ok | 07:25 |
| rakhmerov | in Mistral you describe processes | 07:25 |
| rakhmerov | multiple steps that go one after another | 07:25 |
| rakhmerov | or in parallel | 07:25 |
| rakhmerov | according to some predefined logic | 07:26 |
| rakhmerov | in some tasks you don't have even a notion of a certain final state so you can't use Heat | 07:26 |
| rakhmerov | the process itself may be more important | 07:26 |
| rakhmerov | Heat is only a deployment tool, that's it | 07:27 |
| rakhmerov | and it provides some LCM (life-cycle management) capabilities | 07:27 |
| rakhmerov | whereas Mistral is a more generic tool for managing distributed processes | 07:27 |
| rakhmerov | workflows | 07:27 |
| rakhmerov | it's applicable when you need to automate something and it will be a long running process | 07:28 |
| rakhmerov | that needs to be scalable, highly available | 07:28 |
| rakhmerov | which should have a state so you can observe it | 07:28 |
| rakhmerov | you can pause/resume them, recover from errors manually and continue | 07:28 |
| rakhmerov | you can use it for tons of different use cases: deployment (special case that Heat handles), monitoring, auto-scaling, auto-healing (reacting on certain monitoring events and automatically applying healing actions) | 07:30 |
| rakhmerov | coordination between multiple VIMs (sites) | 07:30 |
| rakhmerov | Disaster Recovery, replication | 07:30 |
| rakhmerov | etc. etc. | 07:30 |
| rakhmerov | even simpler: imaging that you need to run a process that will upgrade some software on all of the machines in you data centre where some hosts need to be updated only after some certain software on other hosts are upgraded, how would you approach it? Say it will take a week to do | 07:32 |
| rakhmerov | you have a choice: write bash/python/java whatever | 07:32 |
| rakhmerov | if you do so then when you run it you won't know at this stage your process is | 07:33 |
| rakhmerov | and if the machine that is running this script dies, you'll loose everything, all process state | 07:33 |
| rakhmerov | alternatively you can write a workflow and let a workflow engine manage execution of this process | 07:34 |
| rakhmerov | which will guarantee that you'll be able to see the state of the process, if some of the components die it will still continue (HA) | 07:34 |
| rakhmerov | if an error happens you'll be able to manually fix the problem and continue from that exact place | 07:35 |
| rakhmerov | does that make sense? | 07:35 |
| Ravikiran_K | yes | 07:35 |
| rakhmerov | ok :) | 07:38 |
| Ravikiran_K | rakhmerov: thanks for the info..i am just exploring the mistral capabilities in cloud environment | 07:40 |
| rakhmerov | ok, sure | 07:40 |
| rakhmerov | if you have some specific questions pls let us know | 07:40 |
| Ravikiran_K | sure :) | 07:41 |
| openstackgerrit | Marcos FermÃn Lobo proposed openstack/mistral: Allow to use both name and id to access action definitions https://review.openstack.org/325894 | 08:00 |
| therve | rakhmerov, I know where in mistral channel, but Heat is not "just a deployment tool" :) | 08:05 |
| rakhmerov | deployment and LCM | 08:06 |
| rakhmerov | what else? | 08:06 |
| therve | The scaling and healing part exists in Heat as well | 08:07 |
| rakhmerov | yes, that fits into LCM to me | 08:07 |
| therve | Okay | 08:08 |
| rakhmerov | scaling and healing of resources deployed by Heat | 08:08 |
| rakhmerov | therve: don't get me wrong, I know that Heat can do a lot and do well | 08:08 |
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| rakhmerov | I'm just trying to draw some boundaries | 08:09 |
| rakhmerov | scope where these technologies may be applied | 08:09 |
| rakhmerov | in the best way | 08:09 |
| therve | Yeah I don't think they overlap very much | 08:09 |
| rakhmerov | true | 08:09 |
| rakhmerov | but for some reason I find it difficult to explain sometimes | 08:10 |
| rakhmerov | new people are inclined to confuse them, I really don't understand why | 08:10 |
| therve | Well because you can use one to do stuff that the other does as well | 08:11 |
| therve | ansible VS puppet if you want :) | 08:11 |
| rakhmerov | yes, right | 08:12 |
| rakhmerov | hm.. yeah, we definitely need to do a better job when documenting all this | 08:13 |
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| openstackgerrit | Renat Akhmerov proposed openstack/mistral-extra: Restructure mistral-extra repo https://review.openstack.org/340334 | 08:57 |
| ddeja | rakhmerov: Hi. About https://bugs.launchpad.net/mistral/+bug/1602003 | 09:24 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1602003 in Mistral "No such option in group DEFAULT: rpc_backend" [Critical,New] - Assigned to Dawid Deja (dawid-deja-0) | 09:24 |
| ddeja | I cannot reproduce this | 09:24 |
| rakhmerov | ddeja: hi, did you try to run api and engine separately as he explained? | 09:24 |
| ddeja | I always run it that way | 09:25 |
| ddeja | what is more | 09:25 |
| rakhmerov | ook.. | 09:25 |
| ddeja | option rpc_backend is one of defult options that oslo automatically adds to config | 09:25 |
| ddeja | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Oslo/Messaging#Configuration | 09:25 |
| rakhmerov | hm.. then can you pls put it into "incomplete" and ask him for more info? | 09:25 |
| rakhmerov | yeah, I know | 09:25 |
| rakhmerov | right | 09:25 |
| rakhmerov | but this is the only place that seemingly could be a reason | 09:26 |
| rakhmerov | ok, no problem | 09:26 |
| rakhmerov | we need to ask him for more info (config, stack trace etc.) | 09:26 |
| ddeja | yup | 09:26 |
| rakhmerov | thanks Dawid | 09:28 |
| ddeja | rakhmerov: No problem :) | 09:29 |
| rakhmerov | and one question here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/340450/ | 09:29 |
| rakhmerov | on one hand we kind of change the default here, but on the other hand "at-least-once" didn't work properly so far so it didn't really make sense | 09:30 |
| rakhmerov | anyway, I'm just trying to understand what the good default should be | 09:31 |
| ddeja | rakhmerov: this don't change default | 09:31 |
| rakhmerov | why? | 09:31 |
| ddeja | with o.m. default option is to never rerun task | 09:31 |
| rakhmerov | well, effectively yes, you're right | 09:31 |
| rakhmerov | yes | 09:31 |
| rakhmerov | right | 09:31 |
| rakhmerov | anyway, let's just think what it should be by default | 09:32 |
| rakhmerov | True or False | 09:32 |
| rakhmerov | I also think that we can configure this default in cfg | 09:32 |
| rakhmerov | it may depend on certain installation | 09:32 |
| ddeja | rakhmerov: right. I was also thinking to do so | 09:32 |
| rakhmerov | remember we discussed it in Austin | 09:32 |
| rakhmerov | it can be your next patch ) | 09:32 |
| rakhmerov | no need to add into this one | 09:33 |
| ddeja | what is more, I recently find out that rabbit have one super feature | 09:33 |
| rakhmerov | which one? | 09:33 |
| ddeja | every message have flag 'resended' | 09:33 |
| rakhmerov | oooh! | 09:33 |
| ddeja | (or something similar, not remember extact name) | 09:33 |
| rakhmerov | and it can be extracted by executor | 09:33 |
| ddeja | yup | 09:33 |
| rakhmerov | :) | 09:33 |
| ddeja | so we can rerun action or fail it | 09:33 |
| ddeja | so no more workflows stuck in running state | 09:34 |
| rakhmerov | yeah, that is super awesome | 09:35 |
| rakhmerov | ok, seems like you have even more interesting work here :)) | 09:35 |
| rakhmerov | ddeja: btw, I was recently thinking about "executor|api|engine -> engine" communications | 09:36 |
| ddeja | rakhmerov: Yup. And some reviews to do :) | 09:36 |
| ddeja | rakhmerov: hm? | 09:36 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/mistral-specs: Fixing typos in Custom API spec https://review.openstack.org/340282 | 09:36 |
| rakhmerov | it has pretty much the same problem with acknowledgements, right? | 09:36 |
| ddeja | yup | 09:37 |
| rakhmerov | like, for example, executor sends a result over MQ to engine | 09:37 |
| rakhmerov | and engine dies after it polled the message but before TX is committed | 09:37 |
| rakhmerov | but in this case it seems like we can always safely resend messages | 09:38 |
| rakhmerov | I'm not sure on 100% but seems like it's true | 09:38 |
| ddeja | I think so, but it should be double-checked | 09:38 |
| rakhmerov | because: 1) DB transactions guarantee data integrity 2) All our operations seem to be idempotent | 09:38 |
| rakhmerov | for example, handling action result second time won't just do anything bad | 09:39 |
| ddeja | I guees so :) | 09:39 |
| rakhmerov | it's just something we should think about but I think we're good here.. | 09:39 |
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| ddeja | totaly agree | 09:41 |
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