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| hongbin | #startmeeting zun | 03:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 6 03:00:02 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 03:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zun' | 03:00 |
| hongbin | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2017-06-06_0300_UTC Today's agenda | 03:00 |
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| hongbin | #topic Roll Call | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| lakerzhou2 | lakerzhou | 03:00 |
| Shunli | shunli | 03:00 |
| Namrata | Namrata | 03:00 |
| mkrai | Madhuri | 03:00 |
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| shubhams | Shubham | 03:00 |
| kevinz | kevinz | 03:00 |
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| hongbin | thanks for joining hte meeting lakerzhou2 Shunli Namrata mkrai shubhams kevinz | 03:01 |
| hongbin | let's get started | 03:01 |
| hongbin | #topic Announcements | 03:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:01 | |
| hongbin | anyone has an announcement? | 03:01 |
| *** dimtruck is now known as zz_dimtruck | 03:01 | |
| hongbin | seems no | 03:01 |
| hongbin | #topic Cinder integration | 03:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cinder integration (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:02 | |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/direct-cinder-integration Direct Cinder integration | 03:02 |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/cinder-zun-integration Cinder integration via Fuxi | 03:02 |
| hongbin | for this topic, i proposed to have two drivers for handling volumes | 03:02 |
| hongbin | 1. cinder, 2. fuxi | 03:02 |
| hongbin | there is a review up for that: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/468658/ | 03:03 |
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| diga | o/ | 03:03 |
| hongbin | hi diga | 03:03 |
| diga | hongbin: Hello | 03:03 |
| hongbin | comments on this topic? | 03:03 |
| diga | hongbin: I will push the latest patch today by incorporating given comments | 03:04 |
| hongbin | diga: ack | 03:04 |
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| diga | hongbin: If i need any help in gate passing, will ping you | 03:05 |
| hongbin | diga: ok | 03:05 |
| diga | hongbin: that's it from my side | 03:05 |
| hongbin | ok, everyone, you could spend your time to review hte spec after th e meeting | 03:05 |
| hongbin | and provide your feedback on the review | 03:05 |
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| kevinz | OK I will review this | 03:06 |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/468658/ | 03:06 |
| hongbin | kevinz: thank you | 03:06 |
| hongbin | ok, next topic | 03:06 |
| hongbin | #topic Introduce container composition (kevinz) | 03:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Introduce container composition (kevinz) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:06 | |
| hongbin | kevinz: want to drive this one? | 03:06 |
| kevinz | hongbin: sure | 03:06 |
| kevinz | I have one topic to discuss. That's from the comment of lakerzhou in the spec | 03:07 |
| kevinz | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/437759/17/specs/container-composition.rst@73 | 03:07 |
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| kevinz | We have : CPU and memory limits: Given that host resource allocation, cpu and memory limitation | 03:07 |
| kevinz | support will be implemented. | 03:07 |
| kevinz | Lakerzhou has a comments : With the limits, the CPU/RAM usage of the capsule will never beyond the number, but do we have any grantee that how much resources allocated to a capsule? Should we use resources instead of limits here? | 03:08 |
| hongbin | lakerzhou2: could you clarify " Should we use resources instead of limits here?" | 03:09 |
| hongbin | for the first question, i think filter scheduler will ensure the amount of resources allocated to a container/capsule | 03:10 |
| lakerzhou2 | I think limits meaning the containers will take less resource than the limit | 03:10 |
| hongbin | that is true | 03:10 |
| lakerzhou2 | but in fact, resources is what the containers require from the host | 03:11 |
| hongbin | yes | 03:11 |
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| mkrai | Limit is on the resource. Right? | 03:11 |
| hongbin | lakerzhou2: but the scheduler will schedule containers based on resources on the host? | 03:11 |
| mkrai | I don't get the correlation here | 03:11 |
| lakerzhou2 | yes, why use limits, does that mean container might take less resources? | 03:12 |
| lakerzhou2 | for example, if a container requires 2 vcpus, scheduler should assign 2 vcpus | 03:13 |
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| hongbin | i see | 03:13 |
| kevinz | lakerzhou2: Per my understanding, you mean we should add a field to control the "at least" resources for container? | 03:14 |
| lakerzhou2 | no, I don't see a reason to use "limits" | 03:14 |
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| lakerzhou2 | resources: vcpus: 2, ram: 3G | 03:15 |
| hongbin | perhaps just remove the "limits" from the naming, call it cpu/memory | 03:15 |
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| lakerzhou2 | that is what I meant | 03:16 |
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| hongbin | yes, i am fine with that | 03:16 |
| kevinz | hongbin: I thinks it's fine, we can remove | 03:16 |
| hongbin | kevinz: ok | 03:16 |
| hongbin | any opposing point of view on this? | 03:17 |
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| hongbin | lakerzhou2: i think this is a good suggestion. thanks lakerzhou2 | 03:18 |
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| lakerzhou2 | np, | 03:18 |
| hongbin | kevinz: anything else about this topic? | 03:18 |
| kevinz | hongbin: No, that's all from me | 03:19 |
| hongbin | kevinz: ok, hope you get enough feedback to get started | 03:19 |
| hongbin | kevinz: thanks for driving this effort :) | 03:20 |
| kevinz | hongbin: thx hongbin, my pleasure:-) | 03:20 |
| hongbin | next topic | 03:20 |
| hongbin | #topic Add Zun Resources to Heat | 03:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add Zun Resources to Heat (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:20 | |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/heat-plugin-zun | 03:20 |
| hongbin | Namrata: you want to chair this topic? | 03:20 |
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| Namrata | Yeah sure | 03:20 |
| Namrata | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/437810/ | 03:21 |
| Namrata | I have updated the patch | 03:21 |
| Namrata | there are some more comments which I will incorporate | 03:21 |
| hongbin | cool | 03:21 |
| hongbin | i think the patch looks pretty close to merge | 03:22 |
| Namrata | and as discussed in earlier meeting I am also working on the heat doc for zun | 03:22 |
| Namrata | Hongbin : Yes | 03:22 |
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| hongbin | great | 03:22 |
| Namrata | That's it | 03:23 |
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| hongbin | Namrata: thanks Namrata | 03:23 |
| Namrata | thanks hongbin | 03:23 |
| hongbin | all, any comment on this topic? | 03:23 |
| hongbin | seems no | 03:24 |
| hongbin | #topic Others | 03:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Others (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:24 | |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/make-sandbox-optional Make infra container optional | 03:24 |
| hongbin | i wanted to bring up this one to see if you think this is a good idea/bad idea | 03:24 |
| hongbin | a brief introduction | 03:25 |
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| hongbin | the concept of sandbox, which is an infra container, is used to present the container that doesn't do anything but just provide the infra | 03:26 |
| hongbin | i.e. kubernetes/pause | 03:26 |
| hongbin | there are feedback to suggest to make it optional when we don't need it | 03:26 |
| mkrai | This is a good idea, I got feedback from Intel's clear container team as well | 03:26 |
| hongbin | mkrai: ack | 03:27 |
| lakerzhou2 | I vote for making it optional | 03:27 |
| hongbin | lakerzhou2: ack | 03:27 |
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| hongbin | any opposing point of view? | 03:27 |
| hongbin | ok, if this is optional, we can remove it on naitive docker driver | 03:28 |
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| hongbin | this is needed for capsule and nova driver only i guess | 03:28 |
| kevinz | hongbin: yeah, make it optional is OK | 03:29 |
| hongbin | kevinz: ack | 03:29 |
| hongbin | ok, seems everyone agree on this proposal | 03:29 |
| hongbin | #agreed make snadbox optional for drivers that are not needed | 03:30 |
| hongbin | btw, pls feel free to take that bp if you interest to do it | 03:30 |
| hongbin | i will be the default owner if nobody want to take it | 03:30 |
| hongbin | ok, next bp | 03:31 |
| hongbin | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/infra-container-in-db Persist infra container in DB | 03:31 |
| hongbin | this one is proposed by me as well | 03:31 |
| hongbin | and there is a patch available for that | 03:32 |
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| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/467535/ | 03:32 |
| hongbin | there are some debate on the review | 03:32 |
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| hongbin | therefore, i summarize the opinions into the whiteboard | 03:32 |
| mkrai | hongbin: What is the need for this? | 03:33 |
| hongbin | mkrai: we want to have a way to keep track of the infra container | 03:33 |
| hongbin | mkrai: or later, if we use vm as sandbox, we need to keep track of all the vms as well | 03:33 |
| mkrai | Ok | 03:34 |
| hongbin | there are three implementation options | 03:34 |
| hongbin | OPTION 1: | 03:34 |
| hongbin | Add a field (i.e. infra_container_id) into the container table. If a container is infra container, this field is None, otherwise, it points to the uuid of its infra container. | 03:35 |
| hongbin | OPTION 2: | 03:35 |
| hongbin | Create a separated table for infra container | 03:35 |
| hongbin | OPTION 3: | 03:35 |
| hongbin | Same as option 2 but leverage the concept of 'capsule' instead | 03:35 |
| hongbin | i think option 2/3 are almost the same, the different is the naming of hte table | 03:36 |
| hongbin | name it sandbox or capsule | 03:36 |
| hongbin | thoughts on this? | 03:36 |
| mkrai | hongbin: In #2, we need to have relation b/w container and infra container | 03:37 |
| mkrai | But how is that done? | 03:37 |
| hongbin | mkrai: i assume there is a foreigh key in the container table to point to the sandbox id | 03:37 |
| mkrai | hongbin: So what info of infra contaienr we want to save? | 03:38 |
| mkrai | Because it only makes sense to have new table only when we want to store all info related to a infra_container | 03:39 |
| mkrai | Otherwise #1 is better | 03:39 |
| hongbin | mkrai: this is a good question | 03:39 |
| hongbin | i haven't given it a careful thought in before | 03:40 |
| mkrai | I can check the patch today | 03:41 |
| hongbin | anyone has comments on this? | 03:41 |
| mkrai | And leave my comment there | 03:41 |
| hongbin | mkrai: ok, thx | 03:41 |
| hongbin | i think if not everyone agree on the idea, we could table this bp for now | 03:42 |
| hongbin | and bring it back when someone interest in it | 03:42 |
| mkrai | I am ok with it | 03:42 |
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| hongbin | kevinz: from capsule point of view, which option wil lbe better? | 03:43 |
| hongbin | kevinz: or you think we don't need to persist this info to db | 03:43 |
| hongbin | ok, never mind, we need to move on to the next one | 03:44 |
| hongbin | kevinz: you can comment on the review later | 03:45 |
| hongbin | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-nfv-use-cases NFV use cases | 03:45 |
| hongbin | lakerzhou2: you want to drive this one? | 03:45 |
| lakerzhou2 | sure | 03:45 |
| lakerzhou2 | I did not have much input lately, but the core idea is to support VNF workload over containers | 03:46 |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/465661/ | 03:47 |
| lakerzhou2 | VNF usually requires CPU pinning, huge page and NUMA support | 03:47 |
| lakerzhou2 | which will need some support from scheduler | 03:47 |
| lakerzhou2 | sounds great, I will review the kuryr spec | 03:48 |
| hongbin | i think Shunli might interest to help out the scheduler part ? since he worked on the filter scheduler | 03:48 |
| lakerzhou2 | to see how we can leverage the work with zun | 03:48 |
| Shunli | sure. | 03:49 |
| hongbin | lakerzhou2: oh, it is about k8s | 03:49 |
| hongbin | lakerzhou2: if we want to leverage it, i might need to figure out if libnetwork should support the same | 03:49 |
| lakerzhou2 | ok, I will explore the possibility | 03:50 |
| hongbin | lakerzhou2: i think the requirements for this is very clear since it is all listed in the etherpad | 03:50 |
| hongbin | lakerzhou2: the next step is to turn the requirements into bps, so that i could find contributors to work on them | 03:51 |
| lakerzhou2 | ok, I will work on it | 03:51 |
| hongbin | thanks, i will help out this part as well | 03:52 |
| hongbin | will work on the Action items session in the etherpad | 03:52 |
| lakerzhou2 | Hongbin, thanks, I will ping you on IRC | 03:52 |
| hongbin | lakerzhou2: ack | 03:52 |
| hongbin | everyone, any comment on this topic? | 03:53 |
| mkrai | No | 03:53 |
| mkrai | Will see the etherpad | 03:53 |
| Shunli | no | 03:53 |
| mkrai | Thanks lakerzhou2 | 03:53 |
| hongbin | mkrai: thx | 03:53 |
| hongbin | btw, this spec has been there for a while: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/427007/ | 03:54 |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/427007/ | 03:54 |
| hongbin | i think it is time to move it forward | 03:54 |
| hongbin | this could be the first step for the nfv support i think | 03:54 |
| hongbin | #topic Open Discussion | 03:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:54 | |
| hongbin | anyone want to bring up a discussion? | 03:55 |
| mkrai | To support clear container in Zun, I have posted a patch in docker-py to support --runtime option | 03:55 |
| mkrai | #link https://github.com/docker/docker-py/pull/1631 | 03:55 |
| mkrai | And would want the infra container to be removed | 03:56 |
| hongbin | mkrai: ok | 03:56 |
| hongbin | mkrai: i think we need to bump the priority for bp to make infra container optional | 03:56 |
| mkrai | hongbin: Right | 03:57 |
| hongbin | since everyone wanted it gone | 03:57 |
| hongbin | :) | 03:57 |
| hongbin | done | 03:57 |
| mkrai | I will see if I can do it :) | 03:57 |
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| hongbin | mkrai: sure, take it if you have time | 03:58 |
| mkrai | hongbin: Sure. Thanks | 03:58 |
| hongbin | ok, everyone, thanks for joining the meeting | 03:59 |
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| hongbin | see you next time | 03:59 |
| hongbin | #endmeeting | 03:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 03:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 6 03:59:30 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 03:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-06-06-03.00.html | 03:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-06-06-03.00.txt | 03:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-06-06-03.00.log.html | 03:59 |
| rkmrHonjo | hi | 04:00 |
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| rkmrHonjo | sagara, tpatil: hi | 04:02 |
| tpatil | Hi | 04:02 |
| Dinesh_Bhor | Hi all | 04:02 |
| sagara | Hi | 04:02 |
| rkmrHonjo | samP: Can you start meeting now? | 04:02 |
| rkmrHonjo | OK, SamP will be late participating. So I start this meeting. | 04:03 |
| rkmrHonjo | #startmeeting masakari | 04:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 6 04:03:23 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is rkmrHonjo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 04:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 04:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: masakari)" | 04:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'masakari' | 04:03 |
| rkmrHonjo | #topic critical bugs | 04:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "critical bugs (Meeting topic: masakari)" | 04:04 | |
| rkmrHonjo | Do you have any bugs for discussion? | 04:04 |
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| tpatil | Looks like patches are up for review for most of the bugs | 04:05 |
| tpatil | I will review these patches in this week | 04:06 |
| rkmrHonjo | tpatil: Great. | 04:06 |
| sagara | thanks | 04:06 |
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| rkmrHonjo | Dinesh_Bhor: Do you have any updates about '"ERROR" instances will be unexpectedly changed to "ACTIVE"' and '"resized" instance that's state was "stopped" before resizing, it will be "active"' ? | 04:08 |
| Dinesh_Bhor | rkmrHonjo: This patch solves those issue: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/469029/ | 04:09 |
| rkmrHonjo | Dinesh_Bhor: Thanks. Sampath promised to create doc for that patch last week. But It is probably not completed. | 04:11 |
| abhishekk | rkmrHonjo: thank you for update | 04:12 |
| rkmrHonjo | np | 04:12 |
| rkmrHonjo | Can I go to next bug? | 04:13 |
| Dinesh_Bhor | yes | 04:13 |
| rkmrHonjo | thanks. | 04:13 |
| rkmrHonjo | Fix os_privileged_user_auth_url | 04:13 |
| rkmrHonjo | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/465800/ | 04:13 |
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| rkmrHonjo | devstack plugin will be failed if this patch is not merged. I want review comments. | 04:14 |
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| tpatil | PROTOCOL://HOST/identity_admin, is this not supported by Keystone anymore? | 04:15 |
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| rkmrHonjo | tpatil: This patch is related to following merged patch: | 04:16 |
| rkmrHonjo | Try to remove /identity_admin https://review.openstack.org/#/c/458226/ | 04:16 |
| abhishekk | rkmrHonjo: ok | 04:16 |
| rkmrHonjo | "Try to remove /identity_admin" removed "/identity_admin" paths from devstack. So we should also remove it from masakari plugin. | 04:17 |
| sagara | I understood | 04:17 |
| rkmrHonjo | thanks. Could you review this patch? | 04:18 |
| tpatil | I got it. I think it's better to mention why we are changing from /identity_admin to /identity in the commit message | 04:18 |
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| sagara | I posted W+1 | 04:19 |
| sagara | tpatil: sorry.. | 04:19 |
| tpatil | Sagara : Np, I have understood the reason behind it | 04:20 |
| rkmrHonjo | tpatil,sagara: I had to point it out at first. sorry. But I don't think we shouldn't revert and re-commit. | 04:21 |
| rkmrHonjo | s/I don't think/I think/g | 04:22 |
| tpatil | there are couple of unit tests where we are using /identity_admin, we will need to fix all these cases | 04:23 |
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| Dinesh_Bhor | #link https://github.com/openstack/masakari/blob/master/masakari/tests/unit/compute/test_nova.py#L43 | 04:24 |
| tpatil | The above one is just one example, there are also other places where /identity_admin is used | 04:25 |
| sagara | Do we revert that? | 04:25 |
| tpatil | Let's do it | 04:25 |
| rkmrHonjo | tpatil: Thank you for pointing out. | 04:26 |
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| tpatil | Dinesh pointed out this problem. THank you, Dinesh | 04:26 |
| Dinesh_Bhor | np | 04:27 |
| rkmrHonjo | I posted revert commit. | 04:27 |
| rkmrHonjo | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/471199/ | 04:27 |
| sagara | Dinesh_Bhor: thank you | 04:27 |
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| rkmrHonjo | I'll grep "/identity_admin" and fix all. And I'll write the reason on commit log. | 04:29 |
| tpatil | Thank you | 04:29 |
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| rkmrHonjo | sagara: Could you merge revert patch? or, Can I merge it? | 04:30 |
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| sagara | rkmrHonjo: Please merge it | 04:31 |
| rkmrHonjo | OK, I merge after completing jenkins jobs. (Oh, revert patches are duplicated...I'll abandon mine.) | 04:33 |
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| rkmrHonjo | ok, can we go to next item? | 04:34 |
| rkmrHonjo | Do you have any other bugs for discussion? | 04:34 |
| tpatil | No | 04:35 |
| abhishekk | rkmrHonjo: yes | 04:36 |
| abhishekk | rkmrHonjo: yes we can move to next item | 04:36 |
| rkmrHonjo | abhishekk, tpatil: thanks. | 04:36 |
| rkmrHonjo | #topic Discussion points | 04:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion points (Meeting topic: masakari)" | 04:36 | |
| rkmrHonjo | There are three items in this topic. Do you have any updates? | 04:37 |
| abhishekk | need review on Recovery method customization | 04:37 |
| rkmrHonjo | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/458023/ | 04:38 |
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| abhishekk | We want to discuss about db purge thing | 04:39 |
| rkmrHonjo | abhishekk: what is the point for discussion? | 04:40 |
| tpatil | Presently, there is no way to delete notifications | 04:40 |
| tpatil | if there are large numberof notifications in the db, it's going to slow down db search | 04:41 |
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| tpatil | it's better to support db purge of notifcations which are in finished, ignored and failed status | 04:42 |
| tpatil | db purge can be extended to other db tables which are in deleted state | 04:42 |
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| rkmrHonjo | tpatil: Thank you for explaining. I agree your opinion. | 04:44 |
| tpatil | We will add a lite spec for this feature | 04:44 |
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| sagara | tpatil: Me, too. Do you think what client is good to implement db purge? like nova-manage, should we create new cli tool? | 04:45 |
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| sagara | s/Me, too./I agree too/ | 04:46 |
| abhishekk | sagara: yes | 04:46 |
| tpatil | we already have masakari-manage to sync db, so we can add this purge command to it | 04:47 |
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| abhishekk | it will be like masakari-manage db purge | 04:47 |
| sagara | tpatil: Thanks, I see. | 04:47 |
| rkmrHonjo | abhishekk: No objection. | 04:49 |
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| rkmrHonjo | OK, do you have any other discussion points? | 04:50 |
| abhishekk | rkmrHonjo: no | 04:51 |
| rkmrHonjo | #topic rpm packaging | 04:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rpm packaging (Meeting topic: masakari)" | 04:52 | |
| rkmrHonjo | All items were merged now. I'll write "Done!" for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/460239/ after that. | 04:52 |
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| rkmrHonjo | I'll write it on wiki page. | 04:53 |
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| rkmrHonjo | ah...Do you want to talk about this topic? | 04:54 |
| rkmrHonjo | ok, let's go to AOB. | 04:55 |
| rkmrHonjo | #topic AOB | 04:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: masakari)" | 04:55 | |
| rkmrHonjo | Do you have topics? | 04:56 |
| abhishekk | rkmrHonjo: no | 04:56 |
| sagara | rkmrHonjo: no | 04:58 |
| rkmrHonjo | OK, time is up. | 04:58 |
| rkmrHonjo | Please talk at ML or #openstack-masakari if you have topics. | 04:58 |
| abhishekk | rkmrHonjo: sure | 04:58 |
| rkmrHonjo | thank you all. | 04:58 |
| abhishekk | Thank you. | 04:58 |
| sagara | thank you. | 04:58 |
| rkmrHonjo | #endmeeting | 04:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 04:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 6 04:58:59 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 04:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-06-06-04.03.html | 04:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-06-06-04.03.txt | 04:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-06-06-04.03.log.html | 04:59 |
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| rkmrHonjo | bye | 04:59 |
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| yuval | #startmeeting karbor | 09:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 6 09:00:10 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yuval. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 09:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 09:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 09:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'karbor' | 09:00 |
| yuval | Hello, and welcome to Karbor's weekly meeting | 09:00 |
| chenying | hi | 09:00 |
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| xiangxinyong | hello guys | 09:00 |
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| yuval | Hey xiangxinyong, good to see you | 09:01 |
| yuval | zengchen: here? | 09:01 |
| zengchen | yes | 09:01 |
| xiangxinyong | yuval: Hello.:) me too | 09:01 |
| zengchen | yuval:hi | 09:01 |
| yuval | There are currently no topics on agenda, so lets start with... | 09:02 |
| yuval | #topic Open Discussion | 09:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 09:02 | |
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| yuval | xiangxinyong: will you continue to contribute to Karbor now? | 09:02 |
| xiangxinyong | I will do my best to do that. | 09:03 |
| xiangxinyong | Even if I have a little time | 09:03 |
| xiangxinyong | :) | 09:03 |
| chenying | hi https://ethercalc.openstack.org/karbor-pike I note that the task about Developer Guide Documentation | 09:03 |
| chenying | , Does anyone have interests about the work? | 09:03 |
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| zengchen | yuval:please take a look at this patch, thanks. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/450070/ | 09:04 |
| yuval | zengchen: ok | 09:05 |
| chenying | zengchen: sure | 09:05 |
| chenying | hi yuval I note that there is Adopt release-with-intermediary | 09:07 |
| chenying | , Community | 09:07 |
| chenying | work. What work should we do? Have we finish it? | 09:07 |
| yuval | It is done, we just need to release | 09:08 |
| yuval | Most importantly, python-karborclient | 09:08 |
| chenying | OK Thanks. | 09:08 |
| yuval | We completed the uwsgi and python 3.5 goals | 09:09 |
| chenying | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/450070/ Spec for openstack client support I submit a spec to start the work about openstack client integration. Can you have a look at it? | 09:09 |
| chenying | yuval Good jobs. | 09:09 |
| yuval | chenying: already +2 that spec | 09:10 |
| chenying | Yuval Do you know the in18 supportion? What work should we do in karbor to support different language? | 09:10 |
| chenying | S/supportion/support | 09:12 |
| yuval | Should be supported already | 09:13 |
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| yuval | anything else? | 09:15 |
| chenying | How to support? We have not translate the messages to other language? We don't provide a po file inclide translation text in karbor. | 09:15 |
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| yuval | We didn't translate any messages yet | 09:17 |
| chenying | \do we need provide it k | 09:17 |
| yuval | Once someone will want to start translating, we can add the po file | 09:17 |
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| chenying | Sorry | 09:17 |
| chenying | I find that there are some po file in cinder. | 09:17 |
| chenying | OK I know. we also can add translating po file to karbor. | 09:18 |
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| yuval | chenying: see https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Translations | 09:19 |
| yuval | and https://translate.openstack.org | 09:19 |
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| chenying | What I want to see, I want to add the translating po file about chinese to karbor. So that the company from china may have interest about karbor project. | 09:20 |
| chenying | yuval: I will see these links. Thanks. | 09:20 |
| yuval | anything else? xiangxinyong? zengchen? | 09:21 |
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| yuval | thanks for attending | 09:23 |
| yuval | #endmeeting | 09:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 09:23 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 6 09:23:19 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 09:23 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-06-06-09.00.html | 09:23 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-06-06-09.00.txt | 09:23 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-06-06-09.00.log.html | 09:23 |
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| Qiming | #startmeeting senlin | 13:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 6 13:00:32 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:00 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:00 |
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| Qiming | seems no one is in? | 13:05 |
| XueFeng | hi QiMing | 13:06 |
| Qiming | hi, XueFeng | 13:06 |
| xinhuili | hi | 13:06 |
| XueFeng | Meeting will start? | 13:06 |
| Qiming | already started I think | 13:06 |
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| Qiming | :) | 13:06 |
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| Qiming | I'm terribly sorry for accidentally skipped two meetings during the past weeks | 13:07 |
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| XueFeng | No matter:) | 13:08 |
| Qiming | both were due to my daughter | 13:08 |
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| Qiming | she was sick last week, I was in hospital ... | 13:08 |
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| Qiming | and we have had quite a few holidays since boston summit | 13:08 |
| XueFeng | So we need your lead | 13:09 |
| Qiming | let's get started, anyway | 13:09 |
| XueFeng | OK | 13:09 |
| Qiming | it doesn't have to be me, when it is meeting time, anyone can start the meeting by typing '#startmeeting senlin' here | 13:09 |
| Qiming | #topic pike work items | 13:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "pike work items (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:09 | |
| Qiming | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-pike-workitems | 13:10 |
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| Qiming | duno if elynn is online | 13:10 |
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| elynn | I'm here | 13:10 |
| Qiming | I saw he was pushing a new patchset for the vdu profile | 13:10 |
| Qiming | evening, elynn | 13:10 |
| elynn | Oh, I almost thought you can't see my message... | 13:11 |
| elynn | evening | 13:11 |
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| elynn | Yes, I push a init patch | 13:11 |
| Qiming | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/467108/ | 13:11 |
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| Qiming | everyone pls help review when possible | 13:11 |
| elynn | Just porting some features from vdu to server profile. | 13:11 |
| elynn | And fixed some unittests. | 13:12 |
| elynn | Still need more unittests and integrated tests. | 13:12 |
| Qiming | ah, right, it is a porting effort | 13:12 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:12 |
| elynn | I'm still working on it, just a little slow... | 13:12 |
| Qiming | pretty big a change, will jump onto it this week | 13:13 |
| Qiming | thanks for pushing this forward | 13:13 |
| Qiming | next item: check action | 13:14 |
| elynn | Hoping this patch don't breaking any existing functions, please review it thoroughly | 13:14 |
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| Qiming | no activity for a few weeks now: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/435822/ | 13:14 |
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| Qiming | elynn, really hope so, but review itself cannot reveal all problems, I promise you, :) | 13:14 |
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| shark | hi~ | 13:15 |
| Qiming | XueFeng, still on that patch? | 13:15 |
| Qiming | or you want a discussion on senlin channel later? | 13:15 |
| Qiming | hi, shark | 13:15 |
| XueFeng | hi,Qiming | 13:15 |
| XueFeng | Yes ,need discuss | 13:15 |
| XueFeng | in senlin channel later | 13:16 |
| Qiming | alright, moving on | 13:16 |
| Qiming | node adopt | 13:16 |
| Qiming | almost finished the first round | 13:16 |
| Qiming | need to add api test and functional test | 13:16 |
| XueFeng | great | 13:16 |
| Qiming | not sure if we can add integration test for this | 13:17 |
| XueFeng | Will test it:) | 13:17 |
| Qiming | there are quite a few holes in the current poc | 13:17 |
| XueFeng | and shark is using it | 13:17 |
| shark | yes | 13:17 |
| Qiming | for most of them I have left some comments in the source code so that we won't forget them | 13:17 |
| Qiming | so you mean it is already usable? | 13:18 |
| Qiming | my goshhhhh | 13:18 |
| shark | I need add some function | 13:18 |
| Qiming | feel free to propose patches, shark | 13:18 |
| Qiming | we (usually) don't bite | 13:18 |
| Qiming | next item is about scaling improvement, Ruijie is onto it now | 13:19 |
| Ruijie_ | yes, effers are still needed | 13:19 |
| Ruijie_ | for deletion process | 13:19 |
| Qiming | and Ruijie is also optimizing the DB interactions | 13:19 |
| Qiming | ah, Hero is online | 13:19 |
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| Ruijie_ | :) | 13:19 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:19 |
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| Qiming | let's try get it fully landed in Pike | 13:20 |
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| Ruijie_ | okay | 13:20 |
| shark | I want to compete the bp existed-pool-support-in-lb-policy | 13:21 |
| Qiming | Revise runtime_data implementation, I think Ruijie and I both did something in that space | 13:21 |
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| Qiming | no problem, shark | 13:21 |
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| Qiming | if you want that work thread tracked, please add it to the etherpad | 13:22 |
| Qiming | backport to Ocata (the runtime_data optimization) seems pretty difficult | 13:22 |
| shark | ok | 13:22 |
| Qiming | next item: RDO packaging | 13:23 |
| Qiming | is it working now, XueFeng ? | 13:23 |
| XueFeng | sorry no process these days | 13:23 |
| XueFeng | will continue to do it | 13:23 |
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| Qiming | okay | 13:23 |
| Qiming | health management | 13:23 |
| Qiming | I believe the master branch still needs some work regarding mistral workflow support | 13:24 |
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| Qiming | 'run_workflow()' is now a method of Node, but it is not invoked anywhere | 13:25 |
| Qiming | I'll fix it | 13:25 |
| XueFeng | ok | 13:26 |
| Qiming | no progress on rally test or senlinclient functional test as far as I can tell | 13:26 |
| Qiming | that's all for things on etherpad, anything to add, guys? | 13:27 |
| XueFeng | rally test problem seems solved in rally project | 13:27 |
| Qiming | oh really? | 13:27 |
| XueFeng | Will check and update etherpad | 13:27 |
| Qiming | then the work item should be revised to 'add more rally test cases'? | 13:28 |
| Qiming | sounds great, thanks | 13:28 |
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| XueFeng | yes | 13:28 |
| Qiming | okay, moving on | 13:29 |
| Qiming | #topic boston summit recap | 13:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "boston summit recap (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:29 | |
| Qiming | anything new to share with team after the boston summit? | 13:30 |
| Qiming | we had three sessions there, presentation was well prepared | 13:30 |
| Qiming | however, the attendance was not exciting | 13:31 |
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| XueFeng | QiMing, I want to know the session by you and xinhui | 13:31 |
| Qiming | one of the reasons could be that we could have stress more on problems solved than the projects/services backing that solution | 13:31 |
| Qiming | most of the materials were prepared by xinhui | 13:32 |
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| Qiming | I was there just to repeat "what senlin is about" ... | 13:32 |
| XueFeng | I have watched that video | 13:33 |
| Qiming | a million thanks to xinhui and elynn | 13:34 |
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| XueFeng | yes | 13:34 |
| Qiming | it was almost 1 month ago, now it is time for a new milestone pike-2 | 13:34 |
| Qiming | we about cutting pike-2 this week | 13:35 |
| Qiming | please help scan the review backlog and approve things you feel good about | 13:35 |
| XueFeng | ok , we wil | 13:35 |
| Qiming | thanks. | 13:35 |
| Qiming | next thing we need help is about blueprints review | 13:36 |
| Qiming | #topic blueprints to review | 13:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints to review (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:36 | |
| Qiming | we have got quite a few proposed recently | 13:36 |
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| Qiming | some can be merged, some needs more discussion, others are already good to go | 13:36 |
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| Qiming | for example, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/senlin/+spec/support-node-protect-operation | 13:37 |
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| Qiming | this one needs some clarification then it is good to go | 13:37 |
| Qiming | this one: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/senlin/+spec/improve-vm-name | 13:37 |
| XueFeng | ok.seems good | 13:37 |
| Qiming | is about naming VMs | 13:37 |
| Ruijie_ | Qiming, for this process, we are tring to use policy data first | 13:38 |
| Qiming | we need a design for that support | 13:38 |
| XueFeng | yes, vm name need improve | 13:38 |
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| Qiming | Ruijie_, which one? | 13:38 |
| Ruijie_ | maybe we can change to use request.body first, so that the process is much easier to be controlled? | 13:38 |
| Qiming | node proection? | 13:38 |
| Ruijie_ | about the bp | 13:38 |
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| Ruijie_ | it says that we want to protect the node not to be destroyed by scaling actions | 13:39 |
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| Qiming | well, implementation details can be discussed during code review | 13:39 |
| Qiming | what I'm curious about is the scope of such a 'locked' tag | 13:40 |
| Qiming | is it only designed to protect node from being deleted, or we can use it for guarding node update as well? | 13:40 |
| Ruijie_ | I'd suggest we use request parameter to controll it, will leave comments ~ | 13:40 |
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| Qiming | maybe a 'locked' or 'protected' node should be tagged so in database, | 13:41 |
| elynn | Maybe adding a new property named 'protected'? | 13:41 |
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| Qiming | yes, that is about the implementation | 13:41 |
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| Qiming | we can use new property, we can add tag support, we can use metadata, whatever works for this | 13:42 |
| Qiming | but the first thing I want to clarify is the definition of 'protected' | 13:42 |
| elynn | okay | 13:42 |
| Qiming | then we can together figure out how big a scope is such a "lock" | 13:43 |
| Qiming | and its impact on cluster/node actions and policies | 13:43 |
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| elynn | yes | 13:43 |
| Qiming | I have talked to Hongbin on this, but he said he is busy on his thesis work ... | 13:43 |
| Qiming | my suggestion was that he draft a spec for team to review, and comment | 13:44 |
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| Qiming | the same goes with VM naming | 13:44 |
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| Qiming | current default naming is terrible | 13:44 |
| Qiming | we need a better solution | 13:44 |
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| Qiming | there are other bps for review as well: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/senlin | 13:45 |
| chenyb4_ | I have some time to work | 13:45 |
| Qiming | pls feel free to take a look on them | 13:45 |
| Qiming | cool, chenyb4_, maybe you can grab a few BPs to work on, :) | 13:46 |
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| Qiming | post your questions to senlin channel when you need help | 13:46 |
| chenyb4_ | ok | 13:46 |
| Qiming | alright, that's all on my mind for the meeting today | 13:46 |
| Qiming | #topic open discussions | 13:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussions (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:47 | |
| Qiming | please speak up | 13:47 |
| Qiming | we still have some time, :D | 13:47 |
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| shark | I want to discuss health policy how to handle the adopt node | 13:47 |
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| Qiming | how about just treat them the same as other nodes? | 13:48 |
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| XueFeng | yes, we can think them the same as other node. | 13:49 |
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| shark | we rebuild user vm,is this good | 13:49 |
| XueFeng | nodes | 13:49 |
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| chenyb4_ | I don't understand profile support snapshot and restore, the profile is about single vm configure, so the snapshot how can i create? | 13:49 |
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| Qiming | snapshot/restore is an operation supported by backend service, modeled into a profile operation in senlin | 13:50 |
| Qiming | just compare it to 'update' | 13:50 |
| shark | how about remove the node from senlin? | 13:50 |
| Qiming | shark, you can do that | 13:51 |
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| Qiming | just as if you have nevered created such a node | 13:51 |
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| Qiming | wait ... did you mean delete a senlin node without deleting the physical resource (which could be a VM)? | 13:52 |
| shark | yes | 13:52 |
| Qiming | why are you doing that? | 13:52 |
| Qiming | you can leave it as an orphan node (not member of any cluster) in senlin | 13:53 |
| Qiming | I will not call it 'delete', it sounds more like an 'abandon' operation | 13:53 |
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| shark | yes | 13:54 |
| Qiming | I'm interested in the use case -- why do you need it | 13:54 |
| shark | becauser it is a adopt node | 13:54 |
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| Qiming | so ... we have to define "abandon" because we have defined "adopt" ? | 13:55 |
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| Qiming | then the design looks beautiful? :D | 13:55 |
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| XueFeng | sounds feasible | 13:56 |
| Qiming | it is doable, although ... I'm not sure it would be useful | 13:56 |
| Qiming | I'm not against it, to be honest | 13:56 |
| XueFeng | ok | 13:57 |
| Qiming | anything else? | 13:57 |
| Qiming | 3 mins left | 13:57 |
| XueFeng | Qiming, I have a last question today | 13:57 |
| elynn | Since we are going to have 'protected' node | 13:57 |
| Ruijie_ | and then force delete .. | 13:58 |
| elynn | maybe we should also need to consider health policy on them. | 13:58 |
| XueFeng | Intergation enterprise monitoring product, senlin and mistral for auto-healing.Can this session fall to the ground? I would like to refer to this architecture deployment | 13:58 |
| Qiming | elynn, sure | 13:58 |
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| Qiming | that is why I think we need a spec for more discussions on the implications | 13:58 |
| Qiming | XueFeng, it is | 13:58 |
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| Qiming | it is real | 13:59 |
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| Qiming | buy xinhui a rose, she will tell you the full story | 13:59 |
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| Qiming | time's up, guys, thanks for joining, gooooooood night | 13:59 |
| XueFeng | haha | 13:59 |
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| Qiming | #endmeeting | 13:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:59 | |
| XueFeng | no problem | 13:59 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 6 13:59:48 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:59 |
| elynn | :D | 13:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-06-06-13.00.html | 13:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-06-06-13.00.txt | 13:59 |
| chenyb4_ | :d | 13:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-06-06-13.00.log.html | 13:59 |
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| jlibosva | #startmeeting networking | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 6 14:00:36 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jlibosva. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking' | 14:00 |
| jlibosva | Hello everyone! | 14:00 |
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| bcafarel | hello | 14:00 |
| mlavalle | o/ | 14:01 |
| haleyb | hi | 14:01 |
| hichihara | hello | 14:01 |
| hoangcx | hi all | 14:01 |
| jlibosva | #topic Announcements | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:01 | |
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| jlibosva | I still haven't caught up with what's going on in upstream after my leave, so I have no announcements | 14:01 |
| annp | hi | 14:01 |
| jlibosva | does anybody want to announce anything? | 14:01 |
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| jlibosva | seems like the answer is 'no', so let's move on | 14:02 |
| jlibosva | #topic Blueprints | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:02 | |
| jlibosva | does anybody have a work on a blueprint that is blocked or wants to discuss anything here? | 14:03 |
| annp | jlibosva: hi | 14:03 |
| jlibosva | annp: hi :) | 14:03 |
| annp | jlibosva: I have one. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/415817/ this patch needs your eye to go to forward. | 14:04 |
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| annp | jlibosva: Could you please take a look and leave your comment? thanks in advance. | 14:04 |
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| jlibosva | annp: it seems you already have two reviews from core members | 14:05 |
| jlibosva | annp: is there anything in particular? | 14:06 |
| annp | jlibosva: yes, but i need to your opinion related to api endpoint. | 14:07 |
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| jlibosva | annp: ok, I'll read and I'll also try to ping other relevant team members | 14:07 |
| jlibosva | annp: thanks for bringing this up | 14:07 |
| hichihara | In the point of API, it needs Akihiro's comment. And also I'll review again. | 14:08 |
| jlibosva | hichihara: thanks | 14:08 |
| jlibosva | Akihiro already has some comments there | 14:08 |
| annp | jlibosva, hichihara: thank you. | 14:08 |
| jlibosva | I also have one bp I'd like to bring up | 14:08 |
| jlibosva | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1580880 | 14:08 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1580880 in neutron "[RFE] Distributed Portbinding for all port types" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Jakub Libosvar (libosvar) | 14:08 |
| jlibosva | this is something I started working on - I have two patches that don't get attention although the rfe is scheduled for p2 | 14:09 |
| mlavalle | jlibosva: do you have links handy? | 14:10 |
| jlibosva | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/414251/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/469949/ | 14:10 |
| jlibosva | oh, I see I have a comment on the first one :) | 14:10 |
| mlavalle | ahhh, you read my mind | 14:10 |
| jlibosva | I missed that | 14:10 |
| jlibosva | mlavalle: ;) I could find them for a while | 14:10 |
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| jlibosva | anyways, if anybody has some "spare time" to review, I'd really appreciate that | 14:10 |
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| * mlavalle will do his best toi find time ;-) | 14:11 | |
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| jlibosva | I don't really have anything to discuss about that rfe, so if anybody has other blueprint to highlight, then please speak up :) | 14:11 |
| jlibosva | mlavalle: thanks! | 14:11 |
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| hichihara | jlibosva: I'll check the patch. I already found some questions. | 14:12 |
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| jlibosva | oh, and Pike-2 milestone is set to 8 June 2017 which is this week. :) | 14:12 |
| jlibosva | hichihara: thanks, I'll read them after the meeting | 14:12 |
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| jlibosva | if there is no other blueprint to discuss, we can move on | 14:12 |
| jlibosva | #topic Bugs and gate failures | 14:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs and gate failures (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:13 | |
| tmorin1 | (hi everyone, sorry for being late) | 14:13 |
| jlibosva | hichihara: were you bug deputy for last week? | 14:13 |
| jlibosva | tmorin1: o/ | 14:13 |
| hichihara | yes | 14:13 |
| jlibosva | was there anything interesting worth telling the team? | 14:13 |
| hichihara | nothing much from me but I found https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1696098 before meeting | 14:13 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1696098 in neutron "Race in deleting ports during Tempest Runs" [Critical,Confirmed] | 14:13 |
| hichihara | We should fix it ASAP :( | 14:14 |
| jlibosva | yeah, I also planned to bring this up, the failure rate is high there | 14:15 |
| mlavalle | hichihara, jlibosva I filed a similar bug yesterday on the Nova side | 14:15 |
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| jlibosva | mlavalle: do you have a link handy? | 14:15 |
| mlavalle | hang on | 14:15 |
| hichihara | Is it nova bug not neutron? | 14:16 |
| mlavalle | I'll get back up to you in a biot | 14:16 |
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| jlibosva | mlavalle: maybe if you think they are related, it would be good to comment on the LP to link to the "nova one" | 14:18 |
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| mlavalle | jlibosva, hichihara https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1696006 | 14:18 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1696006 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "Libvirt fails to detach network interface with Linux bridge" [Undecided,New] | 14:18 |
| jlibosva | mlavalle: thanks | 14:19 |
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| mlavalle | based on my analysis, this is really a nova bug | 14:19 |
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| jlibosva | oh, is that only a linuxbridge job that gets affected? | 14:19 |
| mlavalle | I had time to dig in the logs | 14:19 |
| hichihara | I see | 14:19 |
| mlavalle | and the way I see evidence it pojnts to a problem in libvirt | 14:19 |
| mlavalle | after the meeting I can take a look at the bug hichihara pointed out and see if it is the same thing | 14:20 |
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| hichihara | mlavalle: Thank you | 14:20 |
| jlibosva | thanks, the example in bug posted by hichihara also points to LB job | 14:20 |
| mlavalle | lots of hist in kibana since May 31st | 14:21 |
| mlavalle | hits^^^ | 14:21 |
| mlavalle | that's when it suddenly started | 14:21 |
| jlibosva | was there some libvirt update on the nodes? | 14:21 |
| mlavalle | don't know. I filed the bug last night. | 14:21 |
| jlibosva | ok, I'll try to find that information after meeting | 14:22 |
| jlibosva | mlavalle: hichihara thanks for updates :) | 14:22 |
| mlavalle | :-) | 14:22 |
| jlibosva | does anybody have other bug to dicuss? | 14:22 |
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| jlibosva | ok, let's find a deputy for the next week | 14:23 |
| jlibosva | I think we don't have anybody | 14:23 |
| jlibosva | is there any volunteer? | 14:24 |
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| hichihara | maybe it's for this week? | 14:24 |
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| jlibosva | hichihara: yeah, right | 14:24 |
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| jlibosva | if noone wants next week, I can take it | 14:25 |
| trevormc | I want to do it! | 14:25 |
| trevormc | 8-) | 14:25 |
| tmorin1 | jlibosva: I'm curious what is the status of https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1626010 | 14:25 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1626010 in neutron "OVS Firewall cannot handle non unique MACs" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Jakub Libosvar (libosvar) | 14:25 |
| jlibosva | trevormc: ok! it's yours then :) | 14:25 |
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| hichihara | trevormc: +1 | 14:25 |
| jlibosva | trevormc: can you please update wiki with your name? | 14:25 |
| trevormc | will do | 14:25 |
| jlibosva | trevormc: thanks | 14:25 |
| jlibosva | tmorin1: there is a patch to dvr needed which will move some dvr flows to later tables | 14:26 |
| trevormc | make sure I get approved the bug supervisors group this time | 14:26 |
| jlibosva | tmorin1: also the "basic" ovsfw flow table needs to be moved - currently the bug is blocked by the fact dvr doesn't work with ovs firewall. I'm a dvr noob so it takes me time now | 14:27 |
| tmorin1 | jlibosva: is more detailed info available somewhere ? | 14:27 |
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| jlibosva | tmorin1: good point, maybe there is not. I'll probably report a new bug | 14:27 |
| jlibosva | tmorin1: thanks for bringing this up | 14:27 |
| tmorin1 | jlibosva: ok, thanks | 14:27 |
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| jlibosva | I don't think we have a docs liaison so there is probably nobody to update about docs | 14:28 |
| jlibosva | #topic Transition to OSC | 14:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Transition to OSC (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:28 | |
| jlibosva | amotoki: hi, are you here? | 14:28 |
| mlavalle | jlibosva: I am the docs liaison now | 14:28 |
| jlibosva | mlavalle: oh, you are? sorry :) | 14:29 |
| mlavalle | jlibosva: np, let's finish the OSC topic and we get back to docs | 14:29 |
| jlibosva | mlavalle: missed the good news, we can do docs after osc | 14:29 |
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| jlibosva | seems amotoki is not here | 14:30 |
| jlibosva | #topic Docs | 14:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:30 | |
| jlibosva | mlavalle: hi :) | 14:30 |
| mlavalle | Last Thursday I attended my first docs team meeting | 14:31 |
| mlavalle | they get together every 2 weeks | 14:31 |
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| mlavalle | Tried to catch up on what needs to be done | 14:31 |
| mlavalle | We have a list of docs bugs that need to be addressed: | 14:31 |
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| mlavalle | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bugs?field.tag=networking-guide | 14:31 |
| mlavalle | I encourage the team to take a look | 14:32 |
| mlavalle | amotoki has been doing a great job tackling the critical bug at the top of the list | 14:32 |
| mlavalle | and he is active with the docs team. he offered to share the load with me | 14:32 |
| haleyb | yes, i think just the diagrams are left | 14:32 |
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| mlavalle | haleyb: correct | 14:33 |
| asettle | haleyb: I think so. They should all have the source files in the /figures folder | 14:33 |
| * asettle waves | 14:33 | |
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| mlavalle | asettle and the docs team appreciate the networking guide a lot | 14:33 |
| asettle | Definitely a priority for us :) | 14:33 |
| asettle | We just don't have the people/knowledge to work in it right now :( | 14:34 |
| mlavalle | so we should keep a close eye on it | 14:34 |
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| mlavalle | John Davidge put together an improvement plan for the guide here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/networking-guide-improvements | 14:34 |
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| mlavalle | I am going to review it and encourgae the team to do the same | 14:35 |
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| mlavalle | jlibosva: that's the update for the team this week | 14:35 |
| jlibosva | mlavalle: great, thanks for updates | 14:35 |
| jlibosva | it looks like you jumped into it pretty quickly :) | 14:36 |
| * mlavalle waves back at asettle | 14:36 | |
| jlibosva | let's move to the neutron-lib | 14:36 |
| jlibosva | #topic Neutron-lib and planned neutron refactoring | 14:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Neutron-lib and planned neutron refactoring (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:36 | |
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| jlibosva | boden: hi! | 14:36 |
| boden | hi | 14:36 |
| jlibosva | boden: do you have any updates re. neutron-lib? | 14:36 |
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| boden | I have a few FYI/quick things | 14:36 |
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| boden | First, as I’m sure you’ve seen, there are a number of rehoming patches out for review for neutron-lib as well as a number of consumption patches in neutron and others | 14:37 |
| boden | I don’t see a reason to dig into these, unless anyone has questions/comments? | 14:37 |
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| jlibosva | boden: seems like no questions here :) | 14:38 |
| boden | Otherwise, from a networking-ovn perspective, we’ve pretty much rehomed all the “low hanging” fruit and now have some fun things to decouple | 14:38 |
| mlavalle | ahhh fun time yaaay! | 14:39 |
| boden | that said, I will likely be creating at least 2 specs (for review) on how we might proceed decoupling these (DB and ML2Plugin in particular) | 14:39 |
| boden | that’s all I have here in neutron-lib world | 14:39 |
| jlibosva | boden: you mean breaking up ml2 plugin? | 14:40 |
| boden | jlibosva, well more about how can we decouple it so that consumers can still import/use it without importing neutron… today it appears pretty “tied into” neutron internals | 14:41 |
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| hichihara | It's for ML2 drivers of neutron stadium? | 14:41 |
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| jlibosva | boden: ok, I'll wait for the spec | 14:41 |
| boden | http://codesearch.openstack.org/?q=from%20neutron%5C.plugins%5C.ml2%20import%20plugin&i=nope&files=&repos= | 14:42 |
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| boden | yes, lets discuss in the spec; maybe its an easy problem :) | 14:42 |
| * mlavalle likes boden's optimism ;-) | 14:42 | |
| boden | mlavalle: wishful thinking, but likely not realistic ! :) | 14:43 |
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| jlibosva | boden: wow, I see. Thanks for updates :) | 14:43 |
| jlibosva | #topic open discussion | 14:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:44 | |
| ebbex | Who's looking at splitting neutron-server into uwsgi and rpc? | 14:44 |
| jlibosva | does anybody have a topic he/she would like to discuss? | 14:44 |
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| jlibosva | ebbex: can you be more specific? | 14:46 |
| ebbex | it's a release-goal for pike, to be able to deploy a wsgi file for the api part. | 14:46 |
| jlibosva | ebbex: ah, that one. I know ihrachys|afk did some work on it during Atlanta ptg | 14:47 |
| ebbex | neutron-rpc-server is a dead command as is. kevinbenton had a look at a patch we submitted some time ago to make it run, thanks btw :) | 14:48 |
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| jlibosva | there is a bug for it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1666779 | 14:48 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1666779 in neutron "Expose neutron API via a WSGI script" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Ihar Hrachyshka (ihar-hrachyshka) | 14:48 |
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| ebbex | Yep, and this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1687896 | 14:49 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1687896 in neutron "neutron-rpc-server fails to start on configuration that works under neutron-server" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Sean McCully (sean-mccully) | 14:49 |
| ebbex | Just hoping it gets more attention, that's all. | 14:50 |
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| jlibosva | ebbex: thanks for bringing this up to our attention :) | 14:50 |
| jlibosva | I'm not sure we should be running rpc server separately - but maybe I just lack knowledge of wsgi | 14:51 |
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| jlibosva | is there any other topic? | 14:51 |
| jlibosva | or we could end the meeting earlier | 14:51 |
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| jlibosva | seems like no topic :) | 14:52 |
| jlibosva | thanks everyone for coming! | 14:52 |
| jlibosva | #endmeeting | 14:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:52 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 6 14:52:42 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:52 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2017/networking.2017-06-06-14.00.html | 14:52 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2017/networking.2017-06-06-14.00.txt | 14:52 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2017/networking.2017-06-06-14.00.log.html | 14:52 |
| annp | thanks! bye | 14:52 |
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| mlavalle | o/ | 14:53 |
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| mlavalle | davidsha: so I guess no meeting today | 15:09 |
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| davidsha | mlavalle: I'm thinking not, ralonsoh mentioned he wasn't feeling well. | 15:10 |
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| mlavalle | davidsha: ok, hope he recovers soon ;-) | 15:11 |
| davidsha | mlavalle: same! | 15:11 |
| mlavalle | davidsha: slaweq is in an airplane right now | 15:11 |
| mlavalle | so he won't be here either | 15:11 |
| davidsha | mlavalle: Ah! was about to say he is the only other one listed as a chair | 15:12 |
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| ihrachys|afk | #startmeeting neutron_ci | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 6 16:00:50 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ihrachys|afk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| ihrachys|afk | good day everyone | 16:00 |
| jlibosva | o/ | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ci' | 16:00 |
| * ihrachys|afk waves at haleyb | 16:01 | |
| *** ihrachys|afk is now known as ihrachys | 16:01 | |
| * haleyb waves back | 16:01 | |
| ihrachys | as usual, starting with actions from prev week | 16:01 |
| ihrachys | #topic Actions from prev week | 16:01 |
| ihrachys | first is "jlibosva to understand why instance failed to up networking in trunk conn test: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/462227/" | 16:01 |
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| jlibosva | I sent a new PS today | 16:02 |
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| ihrachys | yeah, still failing, though in a different way it seems | 16:02 |
| jlibosva | I suspect it was because the port security was disabled *after* instance booted | 16:02 |
| ihrachys | for linuxbridge | 16:02 |
| ihrachys | http://logs.openstack.org/27/462227/5/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-neutron-scenario-linuxbridge-ubuntu-xenial-nv/f85a4b2/testr_results.html.gz | 16:02 |
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| jlibosva | so now I changed the approach to disable by default and after instances are up, it will enable for LB | 16:02 |
| jlibosva | lookng | 16:02 |
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| jlibosva | I didn't test it with LB as I have ovs-agt only | 16:04 |
| ihrachys | ok | 16:04 |
| ihrachys | KeyError: 'port_security_enabled' | 16:04 |
| ihrachys | this really looks like port-sec not enabled | 16:04 |
| ihrachys | anyhoo, not a bother for the meeting I think | 16:05 |
| ihrachys | let's move on | 16:05 |
| ihrachys | next is "jlibosva to fetch and categorize functional py3 failures" | 16:05 |
| ihrachys | I see smth in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/py3-neutron-pike | 16:05 |
| jlibosva | so I categorized it to 12 failures: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/py3-neutron-pike | 16:05 |
| ihrachys | nice | 16:06 |
| ihrachys | now we need to decide what to do with the list | 16:06 |
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| ihrachys | considering that we are all full hand with stuff, maybe we can craft a request for action and send it to openstack-dev? | 16:07 |
| ihrachys | maybe also prioritizing them | 16:07 |
| ihrachys | some of those may look different but be the same issues, I would like to start where we are pretty sure those are unique | 16:08 |
| jlibosva | or in 'spare time' - we can write our name to the number and try to produce some patch | 16:08 |
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| ihrachys | like one ovs firewall; one wsgi; one sqlfixture | 16:08 |
| ihrachys | then once those are tackled, we can revisit the results and see what's still there | 16:08 |
| ihrachys | what do you think? | 16:08 |
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| jlibosva | I wanted to add that some failures might be related to 3rd party libraries not working with python3 - like ovsdbapp or ryu | 16:09 |
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| jlibosva | as some failures occur only with these drivers | 16:09 |
| ihrachys | aha | 16:10 |
| ihrachys | well good news is I think we have links to their authors ;) | 16:10 |
| ihrachys | maybe worth pulling those people for failures we suspect are related to the libs | 16:10 |
| ihrachys | I am sure otherwiseguy will be able to help with ovsdbapp | 16:10 |
| ihrachys | and yamamoto should know whom to pull for ryu | 16:11 |
| ihrachys | jlibosva, are you up to craft the mail? | 16:11 |
| jlibosva | I haven't confirmed it's really there but maybe would be worth e.g. enable python3-functional for ovsdbapp | 16:11 |
| ihrachys | (assuming you think it's the right thing) | 16:11 |
| jlibosva | yeah, you can make me an AI | 16:11 |
| ihrachys | jlibosva, ovsdbapp has functional job? | 16:11 |
| ihrachys | ok | 16:11 |
| jlibosva | ihrachys: but not python3 flavor | 16:11 |
| jlibosva | or does it? | 16:11 |
| jlibosva | it didn't last time I checked | 16:12 |
| ihrachys | #action jlibosva to craft an email to openstack-dev@ with func-py3 failures and request for action | 16:12 |
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| ihrachys | there is func job in ovsdbapp as can be seen in e.g. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/470441/ | 16:12 |
| jlibosva | ihrachys: but that runs with python2 | 16:13 |
| ihrachys | yeah I know | 16:13 |
| ihrachys | just saying there is a job that we could dup for py3 | 16:13 |
| jlibosva | ah, ok | 16:13 |
| jlibosva | there is not much inside though afair :) | 16:13 |
| ihrachys | I would start with talking to Terry about it (maybe through same venue) | 16:13 |
| ihrachys | there should be no expectation we pull it all ourselves | 16:13 |
| ihrachys | ok let's move on, thanks for the work, good progress | 16:14 |
| ihrachys | next is "jlibosva to talk to otherwiseguy about isolating ovsdb/ovs agent per fullstack 'machine'" | 16:15 |
| ihrachys | boy you have stuff on the plate | 16:15 |
| jlibosva | oh, that didn't happen | 16:15 |
| jlibosva | cause I forgot | 16:15 |
| ihrachys | that's related to trunk test instability in fullstack job | 16:15 |
| ihrachys | ok lemme repeat the AI for the next week | 16:15 |
| ihrachys | #action jlibosva to talk to otherwiseguy about isolating ovsdb/ovs agent per fullstack 'machine' | 16:15 |
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| jlibosva | I should stop trusting my memory | 16:15 |
| ihrachys | jlibosva, I usually create a trello card for each thing I say I will look at | 16:16 |
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| ihrachys | doesn't guarantee I do, but at least it makes me conscious about it being on the plate | 16:16 |
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| jlibosva | I did create two after meeting without checking the logs | 16:16 |
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| ihrachys | I do right away, I don't trust myself :) | 16:16 |
| ihrachys | ok, next was "ihrachys to understand why functional job spiked on weekend" | 16:16 |
| ihrachys | so the spike (and current instability) is because of the job failing on one of clouds where the cloud uses same IP range as the job | 16:17 |
| ihrachys | the fix is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/469189/ | 16:17 |
| ihrachys | which is switch to devstack-gate for the functional job (and fullstack while at it) | 16:18 |
| ihrachys | d-g knows the correct ip range to use for devstack | 16:18 |
| ihrachys | there is an issue with the switch right now, since fullstack doesn't use rootwrap, and sudo is disabled by d-g | 16:18 |
| jlibosva | aha, so that's why you want to use rootwrap in the test runner :) | 16:19 |
| ihrachys | well, we have one piece of rootwrap transition in already, for deployed resources: https://review.openstack.org/459110 | 16:19 |
| ihrachys | but test runner needs that too | 16:19 |
| ihrachys | and the patch for that is at https://review.openstack.org/471097 | 16:19 |
| ihrachys | jlibosva, yes :) | 16:19 |
| ihrachys | the patch is still failing, have to look at it | 16:20 |
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| ihrachys | I will update the next week about progress, if it's not merged till then | 16:20 |
| ihrachys | #action ihrachys to update about functional/fullstack switch to devstack-gate and rootwrap | 16:21 |
| ihrachys | ok next was "haleyb to monitor dvr+ha job and maybe replace existing dvr-multinode" | 16:21 |
| ihrachys | haleyb, how's the job feeling these days? | 16:21 |
| haleyb | that dashboard is a mess, the job isn't perfect | 16:22 |
| ihrachys | haleyb, totally agreed about the dash | 16:23 |
| ihrachys | haleyb, not perfect as in higher failure rate? | 16:23 |
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| haleyb | ihrachys: it's close to the dvr-multinode job | 16:24 |
| haleyb | maybe 5% higher | 16:24 |
| ihrachys | do we have a grasp of pressing issues there? | 16:24 |
| haleyb | i don't think there's any dvr-specific failure from what i've looked at | 16:25 |
| haleyb | this is just looking at the check queue jobs, the gate is clearly better since we don't push things in with failures | 16:26 |
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| haleyb | i will continue to watch it, wouldn't be comfortable changing it right now | 16:27 |
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| ihrachys | ok. one thing that may help is going through let's say last 30 patches and see how it failed there. can give a clue where to look at to make it less scary. | 16:28 |
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| ihrachys | if we don't know specific issues that hit it, we can't really make a progress towards enabling it | 16:28 |
| ihrachys | so | 16:28 |
| ihrachys | ok let's monitor/look at it and check next week | 16:28 |
| ihrachys | #action haleyb to continue looking at prospects of dvr+ha job | 16:28 |
| ihrachys | next in line was "ihrachys to talk to qa/keystone and maybe remove v3-only job" | 16:28 |
| ihrachys | I haven't done that, will hopefully find some time this week | 16:29 |
| ihrachys | #action ihrachys to talk to qa/keystone and maybe remove v3-only job | 16:29 |
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| ihrachys | it's not very pressing | 16:29 |
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| ihrachys | next was "haleyb to analyze all the l3 job flavours in gate/check queues and see where we could trim" | 16:29 |
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| haleyb | i am not done with that one, still need to look at all the configs for the jobs | 16:30 |
| ihrachys | take your time | 16:30 |
| ihrachys | I will hang it for the next | 16:31 |
| ihrachys | #action haleyb to analyze all the l3 job flavours in gate/check queues and see where we could trim | 16:31 |
| ihrachys | and these are all we had from prev meeting | 16:31 |
| ihrachys | #topic Grafana | 16:31 |
| ihrachys | http://grafana.openstack.org/dashboard/db/neutron-failure-rate | 16:31 |
| ihrachys | one thing to note is ~12% failure rate *in gate* for unittests | 16:31 |
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| ihrachys | not sure exactly, but can be https://review.openstack.org/#/c/469602/ | 16:32 |
| ihrachys | I am still to get back to it to fix tests | 16:32 |
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| ihrachys | if someone would like to take it over while I look at functional job that would be great | 16:32 |
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| ihrachys | another thing to note is, linuxbridge job seems to be at horrible rate | 16:33 |
| ihrachys | 30%? | 16:33 |
| ihrachys | and it's in gate | 16:33 |
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| ihrachys | what's going on there? | 16:34 |
| clarkb | http://status.openstack.org/elastic-recheck/data/integrated_gate.html will give you a list of the recent fails if you need to dig in | 16:34 |
| jlibosva | there was a failure in detaching vifs | 16:34 |
| haleyb | i could look at those unit test failures for your review | 16:34 |
| ihrachys | mlavalle, are you aware of any tempest failures that could affect linuxbridge? vif detach nova, is it the bug? | 16:34 |
| ihrachys | haleyb, please do, thanks | 16:34 |
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| jlibosva | ihrachys: https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1696006 | 16:34 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1696006 in neutron "Libvirt fails to detach network interface with Linux bridge" [Critical,New] | 16:34 |
| haleyb | ihrachys: we talked about that in neutron meeting, right? | 16:35 |
| jlibosva | haleyb: ihrachys connected later | 16:35 |
| ihrachys | yeah I suck. I can read the logs instead | 16:35 |
| ihrachys | so we think it's it? | 16:35 |
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| jlibosva | I compared times where we bumped os-vif correlate with failure occurence | 16:36 |
| jlibosva | but I didn't find any patch in particular, I started looking at nova code | 16:36 |
| haleyb | ihrachys: possible libvirt issue from what mlavalle saw - failure during port_delete causing this | 16:36 |
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| ihrachys | is nova team aware of this pressing issue? | 16:36 |
| ihrachys | aware as in actively work on? | 16:36 |
| jlibosva | 32 hits for 24h | 16:36 |
| haleyb | i think he just filed bug last night | 16:36 |
| jlibosva | not sure, but mlavalle did a good triage and is looking at it | 16:37 |
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| ihrachys | ok | 16:37 |
| ihrachys | mriedem, https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1696125 affects neutron gate a lot. can we bump priority on it? | 16:37 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1696125 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "Detach interface failed - Unable to detach from guest transient domain (pike)" [Medium,Confirmed] | 16:37 |
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| ihrachys | I guess Matt is not avail | 16:39 |
| mriedem | i'm here | 16:39 |
| ihrachys | ok | 16:40 |
| mriedem | i'm always here for you ihar | 16:40 |
| ihrachys | :) | 16:40 |
| * ihrachys hugs mriedem | 16:40 | |
| mriedem | i've got some tabs open, | 16:40 |
| mriedem | dealing with some other stuff atm and then that this afternoon | 16:40 |
| ihrachys | so what's about this bug? is it on the radar for nova? | 16:40 |
| mriedem | yeah https://review.openstack.org/#/c/441204/6 needs to be updated | 16:40 |
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| mriedem | it's on my radar | 16:40 |
| mriedem | no one else in nova probably is aware or cares | 16:41 |
| ihrachys | ok cool. I will add myself to reviewers to monitor progress. | 16:41 |
| ihrachys | thanks for caring | 16:41 |
| ihrachys | looking at other grafana dashboards, they are mostly ok-ish, or it's functional/fullstack/scenarios that we know about and already covered | 16:42 |
| ihrachys | moving to bugs | 16:42 |
| ihrachys | #topic Gate bugs | 16:42 |
| ihrachys | one thing that popped today is it seems like neutron broke tripleo pipeline | 16:43 |
| ihrachys | https://bugs.launchpad.net/tripleo/+bug/1696094 | 16:43 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1696094 in tripleo "CI: ovb-ha promotion job fails with 504 gateway timeout, neutron-server create-subnet timing out" [Critical,Triaged] | 16:43 |
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| ihrachys | as per logs, it seems like neutron-server serves a subnet create request for 2minutes+ | 16:43 |
| ihrachys | and holds some locks for 60s+ | 16:43 |
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| ihrachys | I suspect it's something like eventlet interacting badly with workers. like a green thread not yielding | 16:44 |
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| ihrachys | the ~60s is suspicious, it's same in all failure runs I looked at | 16:44 |
| jlibosva | do we monkey patch server? :) | 16:44 |
| ihrachys | jlibosva, we do, via neutron/common/eventlet_utils.py | 16:45 |
| ihrachys | which is called from neutron/cmd/eventlet/__init__.py | 16:45 |
| ihrachys | and neutron-server entrypoint is under it | 16:45 |
| ihrachys | there are some suspects https://review.openstack.org/#/c/471345/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/471357/ | 16:45 |
| ihrachys | but really it's just a silly way to find late changes that seem related in some way :) | 16:46 |
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| ihrachys | ideally someone would run with the bug from there, but I don't know of anyone actively working on it right now | 16:47 |
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| ihrachys | ok I guess it may require some broader venue to advertise the issue | 16:48 |
| ihrachys | looking at the list of other bugs here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.tag=gate-failure&orderby=-id&start=0 | 16:49 |
| ihrachys | it doesn't seem there is anything on the list that was not covered and a new issue | 16:50 |
| ihrachys | so let's move on | 16:50 |
| ihrachys | #topic Open discussion | 16:50 |
| ihrachys | anyone has anything to share? any concerns? | 16:50 |
| jlibosva | I saw the pep8 job failing - is it known issue? | 16:51 |
| jlibosva | I just saw it at one of patching in this meeting | 16:51 |
| ihrachys | jlibosva, link? | 16:51 |
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| haleyb | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/469602/ | 16:51 |
| jlibosva | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/469189/ | 16:52 |
| haleyb | oops, that wasn't it | 16:52 |
| * haleyb knew it was one of ihar's patches | 16:52 | |
| ihrachys | oh this. I just suck and uploaded a patch with a pep8 violation | 16:52 |
| ihrachys | nothing to look here :) | 16:52 |
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| haleyb | ihrachys: but you didn't touch the file it was complaining about | 16:53 |
| jlibosva | yeah | 16:53 |
| ihrachys | haleyb, it's based on another patch | 16:53 |
| ihrachys | that touches it | 16:53 |
| jlibosva | aaah | 16:53 |
| ihrachys | ok unless someone else has more to share, I call it a day in 30s | 16:53 |
| haleyb | i'll call it lunch | 16:53 |
| jlibosva | :) | 16:53 |
| ihrachys | heh | 16:54 |
| ihrachys | #endmeeting | 16:54 |
| ihrachys | has I done smth wrong? | 16:54 |
| ihrachys | where is the bot? | 16:54 |
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| ihrachys|afk | #endmeeting | 16:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:54 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 6 16:54:59 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:55 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-06-06-16.00.html | 16:55 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-06-06-16.00.txt | 16:55 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-06-06-16.00.log.html | 16:55 |
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| jlibosva | that was fast :) | 16:55 |
| ihrachys | oh boy bot is dumb | 16:55 |
| jlibosva | thanks, bye | 16:55 |
| ihrachys | I think it requires the same name | 16:55 |
| ihrachys | as started | 16:55 |
| ihrachys | jlibosva, have a good evening | 16:55 |
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| lbragstad | #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 6 18:00:25 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is lbragstad. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting | 18:00 |
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| samueldmq | o/ | 18:00 |
| knikolla_phone | o/ | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | ping ayoung, breton, cmurphy, dstanek, edmondsw, gagehugo, henrynash, hrybacki, knikolla, lamt, lbragstad, lwanderley, notmorgan, rderose, rodrigods, samueldmq, spilla, aselius | 18:00 |
| gagehugo | o/ | 18:00 |
| samueldmq | sjain_: there we go, meeting starting | 18:00 |
| spilla | o/ | 18:00 |
| lamt | o/ | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 18:00 |
| edmondsw | o/ | 18:00 |
| cmurphy | o/ | 18:00 |
| henrynash | o/ | 18:00 |
| sjain_ | yes, i'm here | 18:01 |
| rodrigods | o/ | 18:01 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: hey o/ | 18:01 |
| henrynash | shocking, I know... | 18:01 |
| lbragstad | henrynash: :) | 18:01 |
| hrybacki | o/ | 18:01 |
| henrynash | so bored with the UK election, had to do something else :-) | 18:01 |
| lbragstad | #topic announcements | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| lbragstad | ok - couple house keeping items | 18:02 |
| lbragstad | #info pike 2 is this week | 18:03 |
| henrynash | we’ve cut off Donald’s thumbs so he can’t tweet? | 18:03 |
| * morgan lurks | 18:03 | |
| lbragstad | #info specification freeze is this week | 18:03 |
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| henrynash | (that would be an announcement) | 18:03 |
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| lbragstad | #info proposal for rolling upgrade tests | 18:04 |
| lbragstad | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/471419/ | 18:04 |
| lbragstad | I'm working on a job to adding rolling upgrade tests to our gate | 18:04 |
| lbragstad | I'd love to get some feedback on that review to make sure if looks right | 18:04 |
| lbragstad | I've double checked it with the openstack-ansible community as well as the folks in -infra | 18:05 |
| samueldmq | lbragstad: interesting, what's the idea behind it? | 18:05 |
| samueldmq | run tempest tests throughout upgrade? | 18:05 |
| lbragstad | so - that patch adds a new keystone gate job | 18:05 |
| lbragstad | what it does is deploys keystone onto two separate containers, creating a deployment | 18:06 |
| lbragstad | which starts out as the last stable release | 18:06 |
| lbragstad | (stable/ocata) in our case today | 18:06 |
| lbragstad | then it clones the change in review, places it in /opt/keystone on the jenkins slave, and using openstack-ansible to do a rolling upgrade | 18:06 |
| lbragstad | s/using/uses/ | 18:07 |
| lbragstad | it will also execute a few openstack-ansible functional tests before and after | 18:07 |
| lbragstad | it will also constantly authenticate and validate tokens during the upgrade | 18:07 |
| lbragstad | at the end of the upgrade, it will output the performance results during the upgrade and if there were any dropped requests | 18:08 |
| samueldmq | lbragstad: awesome, so it does test things during the upgrade process | 18:08 |
| lbragstad | yes | 18:08 |
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| samueldmq | one node is ocata and the other is the patch (pike) | 18:08 |
| lbragstad | i believe openstack-ansible uses tempest | 18:08 |
| lbragstad | samueldmq: well - both nodes start out as ocata | 18:08 |
| samueldmq | and then just one goes pike, correct? | 18:09 |
| lbragstad | then the openstack-ansible-os_keystone role will perform a rolling upgrade | 18:09 |
| lbragstad | samueldmq: they both get upgraded according to our rolling upgrade documentation | 18:09 |
| lbragstad | (e.g. keystone-manage db_sync --expand, --migrate, --contract, etc...) | 18:09 |
| lbragstad | samueldmq: it's very similar to the process I documented here | 18:10 |
| lbragstad | #link https://www.lbragstad.com/blog/using-openstack-ansible-to-performance-test-rolling-upgrades | 18:10 |
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| samueldmq | lbragstad: gotcha, I wonder if would be interesting to run tests between --expand and --contract | 18:11 |
| samueldmq | so that we make sure the upgrading is a rolling one (no downtime) | 18:11 |
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| lbragstad | samueldmq: well - that's kind of what this does | 18:12 |
| lbragstad | #link https://github.com/openstack/openstack-ansible-os_keystone/blob/master/tests/test-upgrade-post.yml#L20 | 18:12 |
| lbragstad | #link https://github.com/openstack/openstack-ansible-os_keystone/blob/master/tests/test-benchmark-keystone-upgrade.yml | 18:12 |
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| samueldmq | lbragstad: nice, I will take a better look at it later too | 18:13 |
| lbragstad | which authenticates and validates tokens repeatedlt during the upgrade | 18:13 |
| lbragstad | #link https://github.com/openstack/openstack-ansible-os_keystone/blob/master/tests/templates/locustfile.py | 18:13 |
| samueldmq | lbragstad: awesome | 18:13 |
| samueldmq | so for now we only keep testing auth during the upgrade | 18:13 |
| lbragstad | we could get a little more prescriptive in our testing | 18:13 |
| samueldmq | not keystone api | 18:13 |
| lbragstad | right - auth and validate are the only APIs that we're testing with rolling upgrades | 18:14 |
| lbragstad | but we do run some tempest tests after the upgrade | 18:14 |
| lbragstad | which I assume checks data in the deployment to make sure the upgrade didn't ruin it or something like that | 18:14 |
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| samueldmq | makes sense, maybe it could be improved later | 18:14 |
| lbragstad | ++ | 18:15 |
| samueldmq | but is a great start as it is | 18:15 |
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| samueldmq | thanks for clarifying | 18:15 |
| lbragstad | yeah - for now it should be enough to get us the rolling upgrade tag | 18:15 |
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| lbragstad | so any reviews on those two patches would be greatly appreciate | 18:15 |
| lbragstad | appreciated* | 18:15 |
| lbragstad | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/471419/ | 18:15 |
| lbragstad | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/471427/ | 18:16 |
| lbragstad | moving on | 18:16 |
| lbragstad | #topic picking up policy-docs work | 18:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "picking up policy-docs work (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:16 | |
| lbragstad | so - all the work to move policy into code has been done | 18:16 |
| lbragstad | and the follow on for that was to use oslo.policy to document each policy in code | 18:16 |
| hrybacki | lbragstad: anything we can do to help aside from reviews to that end? It'd be nice to see those land sooner rather than later | 18:16 |
| lbragstad | we only have a few patches left for that implementation | 18:17 |
| lbragstad | hrybacki: for the testing patches or the policy documentation patches? | 18:17 |
| hrybacki | the later | 18:17 |
| lbragstad | so these are the outstanding patches that need to merge | 18:17 |
| lbragstad | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/policy-docs+project:openstack/keystone+status:open | 18:17 |
| lbragstad | and i'm not sure if antwash is going to have the time to pick it back up | 18:18 |
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| hrybacki | lbragstad: I'll take a look. Might be something I can help with | 18:18 |
| lbragstad | i wanted to put this on the agenda to see if we could break that work up among the group and carry the last few bits across the finish line | 18:18 |
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| samueldmq | I volunteer too, I will update them | 18:19 |
| lbragstad | right now - most of the patches are in a linear series | 18:19 |
| samueldmq | hrybacki: and others are also more them welcome to help too | 18:19 |
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| * hrybacki nods | 18:19 | |
| lbragstad | which probably isn't necessary since there isn't a reason to not work them in parallel | 18:19 |
| samueldmq | lbragstad: ++ let's just get them all rebased on master | 18:20 |
| lbragstad | samueldmq: cool - so that will be step one | 18:20 |
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| lbragstad | samueldmq: hrybacki want to follow up after the meeting and divvy up the work? | 18:21 |
| samueldmq | wfm | 18:21 |
| hrybacki | sounds good to me | 18:21 |
| lbragstad | #action lbragstad samueldmq and hrybacki to rebase and address comments on remaining policy-docs patches | 18:22 |
| lbragstad | cool - if there aren't any more questions on that specifically, we can move on | 18:22 |
| lbragstad | #topic How to do experimental code in the future | 18:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "How to do experimental code in the future (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:23 | |
| lbragstad | ayoung: o/ | 18:23 |
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| ayoung | Yello | 18:23 |
| lbragstad | ayoung: all yours | 18:23 |
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| ayoung | So, we killed extensions | 18:23 |
| ayoung | and we don't have experiemental, or alpha, or beta or nothing like that | 18:23 |
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| ayoung | and...I miss it | 18:23 |
| ayoung | I miss productivity | 18:23 |
| ayoung | I miss trying new things and actually getting them to work | 18:23 |
| ayoung | and all that coolness that makes people actual like coding | 18:24 |
| ayoung | and...well, what do we do? | 18:24 |
| ayoung | Let me give you an example of what should be possible | 18:24 |
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| ayoung | A down-down-down stream company should be able to come up with an idea for Keystone. Say, oh, RBAC in Middleware | 18:24 |
| ayoung | and they want to implement it for their system. Couple iterations...got something workable | 18:25 |
| ayoung | and then submit it upstream | 18:25 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: what is experimental? may be removed or changed in a backwards incompatible way without previous notice? | 18:25 |
| ayoung | "get the feed back from the operators" is the mantra | 18:25 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, I don't know. That is what I want to figure out | 18:25 |
| ayoung | how can we, as a parent project, encourage new development | 18:25 |
| ayoung | how can we make it possible to build something, get it into production, and then say "ok, this should go into core" | 18:26 |
| samueldmq | extensions? | 18:26 |
| ayoung | I don't think the top down approach we have right now is working? | 18:26 |
| ayoung | "first write a spec" | 18:26 |
| ayoung | etc | 18:26 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, extensions, alpha, beta, separate namespaces...I don't know | 18:26 |
| ayoung | I do lnow there is something like it in Kubernetes, and it is where OpenShift does stuff | 18:27 |
| ayoung | so ideas that are vetted in OpenShift can then be shipped upstream | 18:27 |
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| ayoung | What do we want the workflow to look like? | 18:28 |
| lbragstad | yeah - i remember the initial fernet stuff taking a long time | 18:28 |
| hrybacki | are there any other components that have a good model for this? | 18:28 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, exactly. And PKI also could not morph fast enough | 18:28 |
| lbragstad | when i originally did that work with dolph, i proposed all the changes to a fork of keystone | 18:28 |
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| samueldmq | I think the idea is interesting, but there might be different cases in there, e.g whether you just add APIs vs touch the existing ones | 18:29 |
| hrybacki | or even just a good reputation for working with 'outsiders' ? | 18:29 |
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| ayoung | Hell, trusts were originally supposed to be an extension, but it touched so much code.... | 18:29 |
| lbragstad | hrybacki: from an openstack keystone perspective, i feel like the "everything is pluggable!" card gets played there | 18:29 |
| lbragstad | ayoung: yeah - in hind-sight that was a hard thing to do as an extension to be hont | 18:29 |
| lbragstad | honest* | 18:30 |
| cmurphy | don't we already have an experimental API? http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/tree/keystone/common/json_home.py#n62 why not just put new ideas behind that? | 18:30 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, yeah. and with the Stable Driver interface, we found it too hard to maintain, and yanked that | 18:30 |
| hrybacki | lbragstad: can you expand on that? | 18:30 |
| ayoung | cmurphy, I think that we need to explore just what that means. It is probably a step in the chain | 18:31 |
| lbragstad | hrybacki: the implementation we have for trusts is complicated and it requires a lot of knowledge of various keystone sub-systems | 18:31 |
| clarkb | feature branches are something that swift and others have used effectively for large chunks of feature work | 18:31 |
| lbragstad | ^ that's pretty much how we did non-persistent tokens | 18:31 |
| notmyname | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Swift/feature_branches | 18:31 |
| hrybacki | interesting idea | 18:31 |
| lbragstad | but not as a formal feature branch | 18:31 |
| ayoung | what I would like to see is a way to say to downstream: here is the interface. Here is the process. | 18:32 |
| lbragstad | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Swift/feature_branches | 18:32 |
| lbragstad | thanks notmyname | 18:32 |
| ayoung | And I think it is important to understand the full process before we build any new mechanisms. | 18:32 |
| notmyname | lbragstad: happy to share our experiences if you decided to do it. feel free to ping me about it | 18:32 |
| ayoung | Something like: we want to know that and idea is vetted in a production system before considering it in Keystone | 18:32 |
| lbragstad | notmyname: i guess my first question is - are you happy with it? | 18:32 |
| ayoung | and maybe quibble a bit about what Production means | 18:33 |
| lbragstad | notmyname: my second is - is there anything you'd change about the process? | 18:33 |
| hrybacki | ayoung: could you write up a spec for this? XD /s | 18:33 |
| ayoung | but, we are the antithesis of DevOps here. It is big band waterfall. Everything I hate about old style software development | 18:33 |
| notmyname | yes! feature branches have been both very successful and necessary for many multi-cycle efforts in swift | 18:33 |
| notmyname | I've very pleased with feature branches in swift | 18:33 |
| ayoung | hrybacki, I do have an un publish rant blogpost | 18:33 |
| notmyname | lbragstad: as to the process, we've iterated on it over time, and the current process (ie what's in the wiki) is what's worked best for us so far | 18:34 |
| hrybacki | ayoung: I bet you have an arsenal of them :) | 18:34 |
| ayoung | notmyname, how do you use feature branches to do that | 18:34 |
| ayoung | hrybacki, almost as many as abandonded patches in Gerrit | 18:34 |
| notmyname | ayoung: to do what? | 18:34 |
| samueldmq | hmm and that can be a good fit for both things that are completely separate or that touch the existing code a lot (feature branches) | 18:34 |
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| ayoung | notmyname, "feature branches have been both very successful and necessary for many multi-cycle efforts in swift" | 18:34 |
| samueldmq | just keep rebasing them? | 18:35 |
| notmyname | ayoung: the "how" is in the wiki link ;-) | 18:35 |
| lbragstad | " | 18:35 |
| lbragstad | There are a couple of things we've found that are helpful. | 18:35 |
| lbragstad | frequently merge from master (only a core can do this) | 18:35 |
| fungi | worth mentioning, i believe keystone may have been the first project to use a feature branch in our gerrit, but it's been a few years (was for a protocol major version change) | 18:35 |
| lbragstad | whoop! | 18:36 |
| * hrybacki is curious how CI would need to change (if at all) | 18:36 | |
| lbragstad | hrybacki: ++ | 18:36 |
| ayoung | hrybacki, I was toying with the idea of submitting code direct to RDO prior to pushing to upstream. | 18:36 |
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| notmyname | ayoung: we've done feature branches for at least 4 year-long efforts in swift. the "how" is mostly one of prioritization and community communication. the mechanics aren't actually all that complicated | 18:37 |
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| ayoung | I am wondering if "upstream first:" is still the right strategy for a risk adverse, security sensitive project like Keystone | 18:37 |
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| fungi | devstack-gate already has some logic to recognize branches starting with "feature/" as being master-like (again, pretty sure that got implemented for the keystone v2 api feature branch as well) | 18:37 |
| hrybacki | ayoung: I think it's dangerous to move away from that model | 18:37 |
| lbragstad | i think that depends on the feature | 18:37 |
| notmyname | yes, you can set up different CI jobs for a feature branch. sometimes that very helpful (ie when you're adding new stuff or in the middle of breaking everything) | 18:37 |
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| ayoung | notmyname, also, we have issues with stuff needing to be in sync between server, client, CLI and middleware | 18:38 |
| ayoung | hrybacki, I'm not sure it is. I think that there is an argument that something should only be in Keystone *after* its been tried in production | 18:38 |
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| * hrybacki has mixed feelings about that thought | 18:39 | |
| samueldmq | fungi: nice | 18:39 |
| ayoung | kindof like Vendors submitting drivers to the Linux Kernel after they've supported them for their own customer base for a few iterations | 18:39 |
| lbragstad | maybe "upstream first" isn't the way to describe that? | 18:39 |
| notmyname | ayoung: IMO the main reason for feature branches is so that you can land broken stuff or partially implemented stuff. AIUI, gerrit (zuul?) can coordinate feature branches across projects, so the same banch name is tested together | 18:39 |
| samueldmq | tricky question: is it possible for a deployer to try different features that are in different feature branches at the same time? | 18:39 |
| hrybacki | good question | 18:39 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, it would be a code merge issue | 18:40 |
| samueldmq | without needing to merge/rebase them by themselves? | 18:40 |
| ayoung | you could make a third feature branch for mixing them | 18:40 |
| ayoung | or the deployer could manage that themselves | 18:40 |
| samueldmq | so we would be making all the combinations? we don't control what people need | 18:40 |
| samueldmq | or leaving that up to the deployer seems inappropriate | 18:40 |
| lbragstad | i feel like if we need to start providing ways to use features from different branches, something just needs to be merged to master | 18:41 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, so...that leads me to wonder if Keystone is too monolithic in approach. | 18:41 |
| hrybacki | quickstart in devmode might be able to pull reviews across branches in, checking with the oooq folks now | 18:41 |
| notmyname | samueldmq: in my experience, that will depend on how often you merge master back in to the feature branch [protip: do it often] | 18:41 |
| ayoung | Keystone seems to be 3 distinct applications bundled up into one | 18:41 |
| ayoung | identity, assignemtn, service catalog | 18:41 |
| lbragstad | notmyname: ++ | 18:41 |
| ayoung | ideally, a new feature would be deployable as a separate microservice | 18:41 |
| notmyname | IOW, it's up to the keystone team to figure that out, not a deployer | 18:41 |
| samueldmq | notmyname: interesting, and we want feature branches for things that are experimental | 18:42 |
| samueldmq | so we wouldn't expect a deployer to experiment so many things in a production env | 18:42 |
| lbragstad | notmyname: have you ever had to prune feature branches that never make it to master? | 18:42 |
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| hrybacki | looks like, oooq can pull into multiple reviews: https://docs.openstack.org/developer/tripleo-quickstart/devmode.html#zuul-mode | 18:42 |
| ayoung | take the RBAC in middelware example. Aside from the implied roles stuff (which are already in ) it could easily be in a separate service. Fernet tokens almost feel like they could have been done that way, too | 18:43 |
| notmyname | lbragstad: yes. the hummingbird/golang stuff. we've redirected a few times on that and haven't landed it on master | 18:43 |
| ayoung | like a "token signing and validation server" | 18:43 |
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| samueldmq | how do we do feature branches across multiple projects? | 18:43 |
| notmyname | one very important thing with feature branches is that they MUST have a lifetime (probably measured no longer than 18 months) | 18:43 |
| samueldmq | just use the same branch name consistently? | 18:43 |
| notmyname | samueldmq: eys | 18:43 |
| * samueldmq nods | 18:44 | |
| ayoung | I think that is targetting too late in the process | 18:44 |
| notmyname | samueldmq: at least, zuul is set up to test those together if they have the same branch name | 18:44 |
| fungi | yeah, devstack-gate and zuul-cloner look for branch name matches first when cloning any repos | 18:44 |
| samueldmq | notmyname: that makes perfect sense to me | 18:44 |
| ayoung | you are still thinking in a centralized swift team, and a branch managed in gerrit | 18:44 |
| lbragstad | notmyname: so - feature X is going to start as a feature branch and we are going to target to merge it to master wtihin a year | 18:44 |
| ayoung | I would hate to do all that work just to have someone -2 it at the end | 18:44 |
| samueldmq | fungi: great, that's what makes sense to me, thanks for confirming | 18:44 |
| ayoung | and I've lived that life | 18:44 |
| ayoung | would rather be able to say "here is the extra server" and try to get it into Keystone, but if it is rejected, it can be a stand alone opensource project | 18:45 |
| notmyname | ayoung: sorry. not trying to assume too much about how it might work. just trying to share what's worked for us | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: that'd have to be -2ed even before going to a feature branch | 18:45 |
| ayoung | notmyname, ++ | 18:45 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, it never happens that way | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | -2s are for conceptual things not for implementation details/hardening | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | which is what feature branches are fore | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | for | 18:45 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, people ignore something until it is getting close, they get scared, and it gets pocket vetoed | 18:45 |
| notmyname | the tool (ie feature branches) is not important. what's important is the communication. so whatever works for communication is what you should do | 18:46 |
| ayoung | and that is probably due to the new feature being risky | 18:46 |
| hrybacki | that's not cool, ayoung | 18:46 |
| samueldmq | notmyname: ++ | 18:46 |
| ayoung | which is why we want it in production, and proven, prior to thinking about merging it in to Keystone | 18:46 |
| notmyname | ayoung: ah, yes. so, again from my experience, that's where a *ton* of communication amongst core and leadership from the PTL is essential. communicate early and often | 18:46 |
| ayoung | kind like what the policy effort via ... what is the Apache project called again? Fortress? | 18:46 |
| lbragstad | ayoung: yeah | 18:47 |
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| ayoung | they should be able to do that, and if we can make it work into the rest of the Keystone stuff, great | 18:47 |
| ayoung | if not, they should be able to continue it on | 18:47 |
| ayoung | I think the issue is the service catalog | 18:47 |
| samueldmq | yes and the roles are in keystone, and assignments and all | 18:48 |
| ayoung | we need a way to represent new things in there without conflict | 18:48 |
| samueldmq | that's basically replacing a part of what keystone is today | 18:48 |
| lbragstad | so - alternative, what if it was easier to iterate major api versions | 18:48 |
| * lbragstad ducks | 18:48 | |
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| ayoung | lbragstad, what if we were able to "separate" modify api versions for subsystems? | 18:48 |
| samueldmq | lbragstad: like get it in, and just +1 major version and remove it if doesn't work? | 18:49 |
| ayoung | like identity is at v3.5, federation a 3.14, assignment at 3.14 and so on | 18:49 |
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| samueldmq | lbragstad: we would endup in keystone v30 in 2 years maybe | 18:49 |
| lbragstad | yeah - i wasn't thinking about individually across subsystems | 18:49 |
| notmyname | point of order, you won't run out of version numbers ;-) | 18:49 |
| lbragstad | notmyname: ++ | 18:49 |
| lbragstad | just straight up semver | 18:49 |
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| ayoung | notmyname, yeah, but we'll agree to skip '95 | 18:50 |
| samueldmq | :) | 18:50 |
| ayoung | so...start chewing it over. Think about what we want the overall process to look like | 18:50 |
| samueldmq | that'd work but I don't think that's the right approach, nor what anyone else is doing in the big tent | 18:50 |
| * lbragstad needs to read the swift process doc | 18:50 | |
| ayoung | we can use tools that have been successful here (long lived feature branches) as well as elswhere | 18:50 |
| samueldmq | do it, if doesn't work, go major+1 and don't be backward compatible, that's terribly bad I think | 18:51 |
| lbragstad | samueldmq: no - but it's come up before in discussions | 18:51 |
| ayoung | people are still stuck on the v2 api | 18:51 |
| lbragstad | ayoung: right | 18:51 |
| lbragstad | alright we have about 8 minutes for open discussion | 18:52 |
| lbragstad | #topic open discussion | 18:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:52 | |
| lbragstad | the floor is open | 18:52 |
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| cmurphy | we need a new name for api keys | 18:53 |
| lbragstad | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/450415/ | 18:53 |
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| gagehugo | I thought "auth keys" were thrown around as a name before | 18:53 |
| samueldmq | cmurphy: new name for the thing ? | 18:54 |
| lbragstad | i need to review the latest iteration of that spec | 18:54 |
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| samueldmq | or a new name (owner) for it? | 18:54 |
| morgan | can i point out the bikeshed on the name is stupid | 18:54 |
| cmurphy | samueldmq: name for the thing | 18:54 |
| morgan | this is bikeshed | 18:54 |
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| morgan | color it purple, move on | 18:54 |
| cmurphy | morgan: okay but everyone is unhappy with it | 18:54 |
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| morgan | thats fine, propose something and move forward | 18:54 |
| samueldmq | I don't think it's bikeshed yet, have we had discussions on it before? | 18:55 |
| morgan | discussing the name into the weeds is silly | 18:55 |
| lbragstad | if they don't behave like "API keys" as they are known in other parts of the industry, I'd be fine with something as simple as application specific passwords | 18:55 |
| ayoung | Lets drop the word Keys | 18:55 |
| morgan | lbragstad: ++ go with that | 18:55 |
| ayoung | application subjects? Application Principals? | 18:55 |
| ayoung | Principals? | 18:55 |
| morgan | application-specific-passwords is really what this mirrors | 18:55 |
| morgan | that is a fine name for it | 18:55 |
| ayoung | application-specific-accounts | 18:56 |
| cmurphy | okay i'm going to run with application specific passwords | 18:56 |
| morgan | it's a password, not an account | 18:56 |
| lbragstad | if the client still has to understand openstack's scoping bits, then API keys is probably not the right name | 18:56 |
| morgan | ayoung: please don't push harder on the bikeshed here. | 18:56 |
| ayoung | so we are only going to support password for this? | 18:56 |
| morgan | lbragstad: that is still application specific passwords. | 18:56 |
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| ayoung | how about we use the OAUTH term and call them consumers and say "please use oauth" | 18:57 |
| ayoung | morgan, you know this is not just bikeshedding | 18:57 |
| morgan | THIS IS. | 18:57 |
| samueldmq | application specific credentials | 18:57 |
| ayoung | morgan, I kicked off this discussion | 18:57 |
| ayoung | I asked for links to the rationale for calling the API keys... | 18:58 |
| ayoung | and note that those are still not in the spec | 18:58 |
| ayoung | it was a term we fell in to because it is used somewhere | 18:58 |
| ayoung | but this is service users by another name | 18:58 |
| morgan | ok so two options | 18:58 |
| morgan | 1) use oauth (not this spec, real oauth) | 18:58 |
| morgan | 2) call it what it is, and it's not oauth | 18:59 |
| ayoung | morgan, one reason to go oauth is it works with other projects | 18:59 |
| morgan | option 1 is really not doable w/o scrapping all the stuff massively | 18:59 |
| morgan | ayoung: this is in the weeds | 18:59 |
| ayoung | docker, specifically, needs Oauth for image repos, for example | 18:59 |
| hrybacki | <1 minute y'all | 18:59 |
| morgan | this is NOT oauth | 18:59 |
| lbragstad | ok - so bite-sized pieces, let's refactor the doc to include application specific passwords then go from ther e | 18:59 |
| samueldmq | we're out of time | 18:59 |
| morgan | lbragstad: + | 18:59 |
| cmurphy | lbragstad: ++ | 18:59 |
| ayoung | morgan, this is not passwords | 18:59 |
| lbragstad | if we come up with a better name in the process of reviewing the important bits of the mechanism, we can rename | 19:00 |
| lbragstad | thanks for coming folks! | 19:00 |
| mordred | oh, I see this topic is going strong :) | 19:00 |
| lbragstad | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 6 19:00:29 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-06-06-18.00.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-06-06-18.00.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-06-06-18.00.log.html | 19:00 |
| fungi | infra team, untie! | 19:00 |
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| cmurphy | o/ | 19:01 |
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| fungi | this week we have action items assigned to and topics proposed by... me. just me apparently. won't this be fun? | 19:01 |
| jeblair | oh that'll make it easier for me to eat my sandwich if fungi does all the typing | 19:01 |
| clarkb | hello | 19:01 |
| fungi | in fact, i've probably _already_ done most of the typing ;) | 19:02 |
| jeblair | ++ | 19:02 |
| jeblair | (it is easy to type ++ while eating a sandwich, so expect a lot of that from me) | 19:02 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:02 |
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| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 6 19:03:08 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:03 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:03 |
| fungi | #topic Announcements | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| fungi | i don't think i have anything super important to announce this week | 19:03 |
| fungi | as always, feel free to hit me up with announcements you want included in future meetings | 19:03 |
| bkero | o/ | 19:03 |
| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-05-30-19.03.html Minutes from last meeting | 19:03 |
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| fungi | fungi propose a help-wanted section to our specs index for unassigned specs | 19:03 |
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| fungi | done, i'll cover it under the next topic, which is... | 19:03 |
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| fungi | #topic Specs approval - ADMIN: Add a help-wanted section (fungi) | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval - ADMIN: Add a help-wanted section (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
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| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/471149 Add a help-wanted section | 19:04 |
| fungi | basically just wanted to try and get some consensus in meeting that this is an okay implementation of the idea | 19:04 |
| fungi | i don't personally think it merits a lengthy council rollcall since it's just reorganizing the index a little | 19:04 |
| jeblair | ++ | 19:04 |
| fungi | basically i scoured all our open specs, and any which didn't list an actual human assignee got moved into this section of the index | 19:05 |
| fungi | TristanC picked up one yesterday, so i updated the change to no longer move that one (the nodepool drivers spec) | 19:05 |
| clarkb | I voted +1 +1 on the change already | 19:06 |
| fungi | i saw, much appreciated! | 19:06 |
| fungi | anyway, hearing no dissent, i'll approve it now in the meeting. we can always undo this if it turns out to be more trouble than it's worth i guess | 19:06 |
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| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts - Ansible Puppet Apply: Done? (fungi) | 19:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts - Ansible Puppet Apply: Done? (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:07 | |
| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/ansible_puppet_apply.html Ansible Puppet Apply | 19:07 |
| fungi | the story linked from this had only one task and it's marked as merged | 19:07 |
| fungi | puppetdb reporting mentioned as part of the proposed change hasn't been completed yet | 19:07 |
| fungi | but we've gone another direction and abandoned puppetdb/puppetboard anyway so i assert that this spec is implemented and we can move on | 19:07 |
| fungi | anybody feel strongly that we should keep it open/active until that's solved? | 19:08 |
| cmurphy | i think it'll be easier to fix that part if we upgrade puppet | 19:08 |
| fungi | yes ;) | 19:08 |
| jeblair | feels done to me | 19:09 |
| fungi | cmurphy: i would like to get your puppet 4 spec up for council vote soon. do you think next week is too soon? | 19:09 |
| fungi | or is it still getting hashed out in review? | 19:09 |
| cmurphy | fungi: the proposal is finished but i'm having concerns about getting participation on reviews | 19:10 |
| cmurphy | and if there's a new spec to move some things over to pure ansible then this seems less urgent | 19:10 |
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| clarkb | the proposal on the ansible side is only for new things. So I think addressing existing puppet is worthwhile unless we want to morph ansible proposal to be all the things | 19:11 |
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| dirk | cmurphy: fwiw the spec is in merge conflict | 19:12 |
| fungi | probably because of the change i just merged | 19:12 |
| jeblair | i'm assuming ansible for new things would be a first step toward ansible for all things. so deciding on where we want to end up would be useful. | 19:12 |
| cmurphy | this one? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/449933 | 19:12 |
| mordred | I agree | 19:12 |
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| fungi | the help-wanted change likely generated a fair number of merge conflicts over the specs index | 19:13 |
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| mordred | I think it's worthwhile for us all to mull whether or not we'll get the coders and reviewers for either puppet4 or ansible work as we think about what the overall plan should be | 19:13 |
| fungi | #agreed ansible_puppet_apply spec can be marked implemented | 19:14 |
| cmurphy | right now all of the beaker tests are broken, they are hard to fix, and no one (including me) really wants to put the effort into fixing them | 19:14 |
| mordred | cmurphy: yah | 19:14 |
| cmurphy | so yes i agree that moving toward something that people want to work on is worthwhile | 19:14 |
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| mordred | ++ | 19:14 |
| fungi | conversely, we need to be able to continue managing what we have until whatever else comes along to replace it is ready | 19:15 |
| mordred | fungi: ++ | 19:15 |
| mordred | that too | 19:15 |
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| fungi | so if that means we need to fix our current testing somehow, we should still be thinking about what ways we have to accomplish that | 19:15 |
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| fungi | is (was) the beaker-based testing catching bugs we were missing in our apply tests? | 19:16 |
| ianw | why are they hard to fix? just a lot of dependencies? | 19:16 |
| ianw | or something deeper? | 19:17 |
| clarkb | fungi: yes, they were able to catch a class of bug only found when actually applying puppet not in noop mode | 19:17 |
| cmurphy | fungi: i think there's been a few times they caught real bugs, though hard to say lately | 19:17 |
| clarkb | idempotency being one | 19:17 |
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| fungi | clarkb: cmurphy: thanks. i mean i know in theory they test more deeply than we can with apply jobs, just didn't know if the effort we've been putting into maintaining them was offset by the benefits we were getting | 19:18 |
| cmurphy | ianw: well for example since we let them lapse the puppet-jenkins module started needing a lot of work to get it back to working https://review.openstack.org/#/c/462048/ | 19:18 |
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| fungi | did most of this creep up on us simply because we only spot issues when someone proposes a new change to a module and most of our modules are very low-churn? | 19:19 |
| dirk | cmurphy: yes (sorry, was afk) | 19:20 |
| cmurphy | fungi: it crept up on us because we left them nonvoting | 19:20 |
| fungi | they were voting on at least some modules i thought | 19:20 |
| pabelanger | o/ | 19:20 |
| ianw | cmurphy: ahh, yeah ... a lot of churn to cover | 19:20 |
| fungi | am i misremembering, or did something cause us to switch them back to nonvoting across the board? | 19:21 |
| cmurphy | i think puppet-cgit has voting centos beaker jobs | 19:22 |
| cmurphy | i don't remember if there are others | 19:22 |
| cmurphy | didn't mean to derail the spec approval topic, we can come back to this later | 19:23 |
| fungi | well, it's a very important topic. i'm just wondering whether we should be hashing these various parallel concerns out on the infra ml. i'm worried that this meeting isn't going to be sufficient to get to whatever sort of consensus we need on such a complex situation | 19:24 |
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| fungi | i can try to summarize the various points raised in a starter message and see where the discussion goes | 19:24 |
| cmurphy | sounds good | 19:25 |
| fungi | #action fungi start an infra ml thread about puppet 4, beaker jobs and the future of infra configuration management | 19:25 |
| fungi | thanks cmurphy! i hadn't realized things were in quite the state they are on this | 19:25 |
| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts - A Task Tracker for OpenStack: Assignees? (fungi) | 19:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts - A Task Tracker for OpenStack: Assignees? (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:26 | |
| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/task-tracker.html A Task Tracker for OpenStack | 19:26 |
| fungi | diablo_rojo has been the defacto phase 1 coordinator/facilitator on this for a while now | 19:26 |
| fungi | diablo_rojo: if you're around, mind updating the task-tracker spec to list yourself as the assignee and move it from the help wanted section back into the approved section? | 19:26 |
| fungi | #action fungi get up with diablo_rojo about task-tracker spec assignment | 19:27 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | :) | 19:27 |
| fungi | i'm noticing we actually have it double-listed since it's also in the priority efforts section, so i guess we can just take it out of the help wanted section once it has an actual assignee noted | 19:28 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | *nod* | 19:28 |
| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts - Gerrit 2.13 Upgrade: Stalled? (fungi) | 19:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts - Gerrit 2.13 Upgrade: Stalled? (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:28 | |
| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/gerrit-2.13.html Gerrit 2.13 Upgrade | 19:28 |
| fungi | zaro is listed as the assignee on this (and did some awesome preliminary testing, thanks!) | 19:28 |
| fungi | but his employment situation has left him with limited time to help on it lately | 19:29 |
| fungi | clarkb has prodded at it a bit more recently too | 19:29 |
| fungi | also gerrit 2.14 has been out for a couple months now, looks like so maybe we should be evaluating that? | 19:29 |
| fungi | i'm mostly just trying to get a feel for whether this has the momentum and volunteers to keep it in the priority efforts set, realistically | 19:29 |
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| clarkb | the summit and prep for summit let out all the steam I had on this | 19:29 |
| clarkb | I should pick it back up again, its just hard because gerrit :) | 19:30 |
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| fungi | yeah. we seem to end up in a perpetual cycle of taking longer to evaluate a new version of gerrit than it takes them to release new versions | 19:30 |
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| jeblair | if we wanted to reduce the scope of this to omit fixing up 'zuul-dev' and just rely on local testing, i'd be fine with that | 19:30 |
| clarkb | we do have a build of a 2.13.x war that we can apply to review-dev built. What we need to do is run through the actual upgrade process on review-dev because we can't do it with online indexing | 19:30 |
| jeblair | though *some* amount of testing with zuul should be done. especially if we move to newer gerrit | 19:31 |
| clarkb | so mostly just want to be sure we have a process and its tested and measured before we go to production | 19:31 |
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| jeblair | i've seen some gerrit-compatability patches for zuul recently but haven't really kept track of what versions were involved | 19:31 |
| mordred | jeblair: luckily tobiash already found us one zuul+newer-gerrit bug :) | 19:31 |
| clarkb | jeblair: agreed, I think we can just run noop jobs out of a virtualenv to start though | 19:31 |
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| clarkb | of course maybe we want to go to 2.14 instead of 2.13 and get a new war up? | 19:32 |
| clarkb | its probably not a bad idea otherwise our next upgrade will be even further behind | 19:32 |
| fungi | i'm tempted to say stick with 2.13 rather than losing what progress we've potentially made by starting all over | 19:32 |
| mordred | 2.14 requires java 8 - do we have that? | 19:32 |
| clarkb | mordred: oh on xenial we do | 19:32 |
| clarkb | so maybe we stick with 2.13 then | 19:32 |
| mordred | yah. otherwise it's a host change too | 19:32 |
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| jeblair | i can help out with the zuul testing part if needed | 19:33 |
| clarkb | given that my preference is definitely 2.13 to reduce complexity | 19:33 |
| fungi | well, or a somewhat distasteful in-place distro upgrade like we did/are doing for lists.o.o | 19:33 |
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| fungi | (to avoid a host replacement) | 19:33 |
| clarkb | why don't I finish writing up an upgrade doc (I started but never actually put real content in there), we can review it, apply it to review-dev then resync on testing | 19:33 |
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| jeblair | in place wasn't too bad :) | 19:34 |
| fungi | all things considered, debian (and by extension ubuntu) does manage to make in-place upgrading not too painful, agreed | 19:35 |
| fungi | clarkb: sounds good to me | 19:35 |
| fungi | #action clarkb finish writing up an upgrade doc for gerrit 2.11 to 2.13 | 19:35 |
| fungi | thanks! | 19:35 |
| mordred | fwiw, 2.14 includes polygerrit - and I also see things in the rest api docs about "robot comments" | 19:36 |
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| fungi | i for one welcome our new robot overlords (as long as they adhere to the three laws) | 19:36 |
| mordred | fungi: ++ | 19:36 |
| mordred | fungi: is one of the three laws "don't break any of the laws" | 19:36 |
| fungi | that's sort of the zeroth law, but... | 19:37 |
| fungi | #topic Specs Cleanup (fungi) | 19:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs Cleanup (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:37 | |
| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/ OpenStack Project Infrastructure Design Specifications | 19:37 |
| fungi | since nobody else proposed any topics this week, i thought this was a good opportunity to try and identify some approved specs which we've missed moving to implemented or abandoned | 19:37 |
| fungi | i've picked a few which look promising and we can see how many we get through | 19:37 |
| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/complete-reviewable-release-automation.html Complete Reviewable Release Automation Work | 19:38 |
| fungi | dhellmann: i'm pretty sure we can consider this one implemented, right? | 19:38 |
| fungi | #action fungi get up with dhellmann about complete-reviewable-release-automation spec | 19:39 |
| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/deploy-stackviz.html Stackviz Deployment | 19:39 |
| fungi | austin81: timothyb89: this has been working for a while, i think? should we mark it implemented now? | 19:39 |
| clarkb | and we just simplified the installation in d-g too (thanks pabelanger) | 19:39 |
| fungi | (or anyone else who happens to know) | 19:39 |
| fungi | yeah, i figure that makes it plenty done if we're already refactoring the install mechanism | 19:40 |
| pabelanger | indeed! | 19:40 |
| clarkb | we didn't implment the central browser service | 19:40 |
| clarkb | which is part of that spec, though I wonder how much interest there is in making that happen? | 19:40 |
| fungi | might be we revisit the scope there | 19:40 |
| fungi | #action fungi get up with austin81 and timothyb89 about deploy-stackviz spec | 19:40 |
| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/ethercalc.html Ethercalc | 19:41 |
| fungi | clarkb: we have one of these | 19:41 |
| fungi | #link http://ethercalc.openstack.org/ | 19:41 |
| fungi | i've even used it. implemented, yeah? | 19:41 |
| clarkb | yes implemented | 19:41 |
| fungi | #agreed ethercalc spec is implemented now | 19:41 |
| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/neutral-governance-website.html Neutral governance website | 19:41 |
| fungi | ttx is travelling today, but as far as i can tell this is done. anyone disagree? | 19:41 |
| clarkb | +1 to done | 19:42 |
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| fungi | was pretty much just about moving the tc-specific content into the tc subtree and setting up teh necessary redirects, then letting the uc publish to governance.o.o as well | 19:42 |
| fungi | i'll double-check with ttx too when he's around | 19:42 |
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| fungi | #action fungi get up with ttx about neutral-governance-website spec | 19:42 |
| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/pholio.html Pholio Service Installation | 19:42 |
| fungi | it's been up and running for a while, though the ux team sort of dissolved shortly after | 19:43 |
| fungi | #link https://pholio.openstack.org/pholio/ pholio service | 19:43 |
| fungi | we may want to consider figuring out if anyone in the community has a use for it and take it back down if not, i guess | 19:43 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:44 |
| fungi | the only outstanding concern i heard (i think from mordred?) was about making sure teh links to the other phab subcomponents were properly disabled/redirected | 19:44 |
| mordred | yah. that was my main concern | 19:45 |
| mordred | also - we're not exactly over-staffed with humans, so running a service that isn't important to our users seems like extra effort that it's hard to justify | 19:46 |
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| clarkb | I think this is what the openstack shelve feature is for :) | 19:47 |
| mordred | clarkb: ah! finally, a use for it ;) | 19:47 |
| mordred | clarkb: you know, we could pause it, snapshot it, then download the image and store it somewhere | 19:47 |
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| fungi | yeah, looks like nobody has created any mocks under it | 19:48 |
| fungi | and i agree it looks like at least maniphest is allowing me to create a new bug report | 19:48 |
| fungi | so there's still work to do to lock this down | 19:48 |
| mordred | fungi: if nobody has created mocks, I'd vote for spinning it down | 19:49 |
| ianw | i spent some time on it before, i can send out a note about it, and start deprecation if required | 19:49 |
| ianw | otherwise look at locking it down | 19:49 |
| mordred | ianw: ++ | 19:49 |
| fungi | since nobody is using it (and it was never officially announced because the ux team dissolved while we were waiting for them to get back to us about if it was working the way they wanted) it may not need any announcement | 19:50 |
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| ianw | i can word it so it's not a question :) | 19:51 |
| fungi | ianw: sounds great! you want to take on deleting the server and moving the spec to abandoned too? | 19:52 |
| ianw | yep, will do over the next week | 19:52 |
| fungi | #action abandon pholio spec and send announcement about discontinuing the (unused) service | 19:53 |
| fungi | #undo | 19:53 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: #action abandon pholio spec and send announcement about discontinuing the (unused) service | 19:53 |
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| fungi | #action ianw abandon pholio spec and send announcement about discontinuing the (unused) service | 19:53 |
| fungi | thanks! | 19:53 |
| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/publish-election-repo.html Publish election repository | 19:53 |
| fungi | this is super done, yep? | 19:53 |
| clarkb | https://governance.openstack.org/election/ says yes | 19:54 |
| fungi | yeah, hard to dispute reality | 19:54 |
| fungi | #agreed publish-election-repo is implemented | 19:54 |
| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/releases-openstack-org.html Move docs.openstack.org/releases to releases.openstack.org | 19:55 |
| clarkb | you can always reject reality and substitute one in | 19:55 |
| Shrews | that's called alcohol | 19:55 |
| fungi | i consider that my day job | 19:55 |
| clarkb | https://releases.openstack.org/ says this one is done too | 19:55 |
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| fungi | #link https://releases.openstack.org/ | 19:56 |
| fungi | yep. there may be more they want that site to have, but it exists insofar as the spec requires | 19:56 |
| fungi | #agreed releases-openstack-org spec is implemented | 19:56 |
| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/shade.html shade: A library that understands clouds | 19:57 |
| fungi | mordred: ^ i vote that the infra spec is implemented, and future shade specs are handled by its new team | 19:57 |
| mordred | fungi: agree | 19:57 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:57 |
| clarkb | also the listed work items are done I think | 19:58 |
| fungi | yeah, seems that way | 19:58 |
| fungi | #agreed shade spec is implemented | 19:58 |
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| fungi | i'll hit the sb team up about possibly implemented specs in their meeting tomorrow | 19:58 |
| fungi | oh, here's one more probably easy: | 19:58 |
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| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/unified_mirrors.html Unified Mirrors | 19:59 |
| pabelanger | :) | 19:59 |
| fungi | we're done there, right? | 19:59 |
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| pabelanger | I'd say yes | 19:59 |
| clarkb | its also evolved a bit from there too | 19:59 |
| pabelanger | all regions have them | 19:59 |
| fungi | some parts of it ended up agandoned | 19:59 |
| fungi | abandoned | 19:59 |
| fungi | but yeah, implemented enough | 20:00 |
| pabelanger | ya, ruby for example | 20:00 |
| fungi | we're out of time, but i could use a volunteer to fix up that spec to remove the bits we didn't do | 20:00 |
| fungi | get up with me in #openstack-infra | 20:00 |
| fungi | thanks everyone! | 20:00 |
| fungi | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 6 20:00:47 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-06-06-19.03.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-06-06-19.03.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-06-06-19.03.log.html | 20:00 |
| smcginnis | #startmeeting tc | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 6 20:00:59 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is smcginnis. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| mriedem | o/ | 20:01 |
| EmilienM | o/ | 20:01 |
| dims | o/ | 20:01 |
| mriedem | so, DB2... | 20:01 |
| * edleafe finds a comfy seat | 20:01 | |
| smcginnis | Welcome to the special PostgreSQL edition of the TC meeting. :) | 20:01 |
| * edleafe smack mriedem | 20:01 | |
| * smcginnis laughs at mriedem | 20:01 | |
| * dims kicks mriedem out | 20:01 | |
| sdague | o/ | 20:01 |
| smcginnis | Agenda is here: | 20:01 |
| smcginnis | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:01 |
| fungi | fun stuff | 20:01 |
| *** galstrom is now known as galstrom_zzz | 20:01 | |
| smcginnis | Scroll down to Next Meeting | 20:01 |
| cdent | o/ | 20:02 |
| smcginnis | #topic Declare the current state of Postgresql in OpenStack | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Declare the current state of Postgresql in OpenStack (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| dtroyer | o/ | 20:02 |
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| sdague | are we at quorum? | 20:02 |
| dtroyer | I count 7 | 20:03 |
| * rockyg hands mriedem a lollipop and says "there, there" | 20:03 | |
| smcginnis | Yep, looks like we've reached quorum, right? | 20:03 |
| sdague | dtroyer: mriedem isn't TC, though his opinion is valued | 20:03 |
| smcginnis | Welll... | 20:03 |
| smcginnis | :) | 20:04 |
| dtroyer | I didn't count him | 20:04 |
| sdague | ok, I'm failing at math | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:04 |
| sdague | sdague, dtroyer, smcginnis, fungi, cdent, EmilienM | 20:04 |
| sdague | ah, dhellmann == quorum :) | 20:04 |
| dtroyer | dims | 20:04 |
| smcginnis | And dims | 20:04 |
| dims | sdague : am here too, fighting network issues | 20:04 |
| * dhellmann feels useful | 20:04 | |
| sdague | oh, damn | 20:04 |
| smcginnis | :) | 20:04 |
| * dhellmann feels less useful now | 20:04 | |
| sdague | I should go back to camping | 20:04 |
| dtroyer | ++ moar camping for everyone | 20:05 |
| smcginnis | sdague: Good life lesson in general. | 20:05 |
| sdague | ok, shall we begin? | 20:05 |
| rockyg | ++ | 20:05 |
| smcginnis | SO cdent pulled together a nice post with links | 20:05 |
| smcginnis | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-June/117921.html | 20:05 |
| smcginnis | We've have had a few lengthy discussions on the ML | 20:05 |
| smcginnis | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-May/116642.html | 20:05 |
| fungi | sdague: i had already piped up earlier, but yes, here | 20:06 |
| smcginnis | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-May/117148.html | 20:06 |
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| smcginnis | And we have a couple proposals up to how we want to approach this: | 20:06 |
| smcginnis | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/427880/ | 20:06 |
| smcginnis | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/465589/ | 20:06 |
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| smcginnis | I am your impartial moderator today ss, go.... | 20:07 |
| smcginnis | *so | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | before we start on the proposals, can someone clarify for me whether we have answered the question of if we *want* to support postgresql? | 20:07 |
| dtroyer | after a bit of a break, I think dhellmann's question in todays last comment on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/465589/ would be a good place to start | 20:08 |
| sdague | dhellmann: I don't think that's a settled question | 20:08 |
| dtroyer | and hetypes faster than I do :) | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | right, so I think that's where we need to start | 20:08 |
| sdague | dhellmann: is it? | 20:08 |
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| mriedem | we talked about that at the summit, | 20:08 |
| smcginnis | dhellmann: There certainly are some who *want* it supported. So maybe discuss around what that means in this context. | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | well, we could do the "this isn't well supported" comment thing, but the rest of the stuff about asking for help doesn't make sense if we're going to reject it | 20:08 |
| dtroyer | a) we don't support is not up to mysql-par; b) we should document that; c) then what? | 20:09 |
| mriedem | i think at the summit we could all agree on actually documenting the current state of htings | 20:09 |
| mriedem | *things | 20:09 |
| mriedem | which is why we have the two proposals to do that | 20:09 |
| sdague | dhellmann: I agree that asking the board for assistance here seems like a weird ask (from cdent's proposal) | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | so even cdent's draft would have to change to drop that part | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | and if that's all we're going to do now, someone could just go write the doc patch | 20:09 |
| sdague | because even if we did want to support this, I don't think it would be in the top 20 things we'd ask board support for | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | right | 20:10 |
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| cdent | the reason I included that is because my understanding, from summit, was that _if_ we want to indicate a path forward, then we need to indicate that getting support from "vendors" is something we need | 20:10 |
| smcginnis | How about this - 1) do we agree we should document the current state, then 2) discuss what the future state should be? | 20:10 |
| fungi | deciding whether we (who is "we" in this sense) want to support it first assumes we know what we mean when we say "support" | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | yeah, but we don't want to ask for help on this if we don't want it, so we should decide about that before we ask for help | 20:10 |
| cdent | I think sdague's most recent comment about "top 20" is essentially the same as dhellmann's question: do we want it | 20:10 |
| smcginnis | I'd like to focus on 1 first here, as I think leaving its state ambiguous isn't helpingn anyone. | 20:10 |
| sdague | smcginnis: I agree | 20:11 |
| dirk | sdague: but are we really talking about postgresql specifically or "any sqlalchemy/oslo.db supported sql vs mysql family only" ? | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | smcginnis : +1 | 20:11 |
| cdent | I wrote the alternative as a way of saying "if we want it, here's a way to say that" | 20:11 |
| fungi | like does it mean that there are some set of people who have volunteered to be postgresql subject matter experts within the community? | 20:11 |
| sdague | so in the proposal https://review.openstack.org/#/c/427880/7/resolutions/20170201-postgresql-status.rst there are 3 concrete actions | 20:11 |
| dirk | sdague: isn't postgresql the guinea pig of making sure that the stuff is reasonably portable accross no-matter-what db? | 20:11 |
| sdague | 1) document that it is less supported | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | fungi : we need to say something clearly like "projects should accept patches to maintain postgresql support" or "projects do not need to maintain postgresql support after they have provided a migration path off of postgresql onto mysql" | 20:11 |
| sdague | 2) see what a transition would look like / cost (as there is a team doing that) | 20:11 |
| dims | good plan of attack | 20:12 |
| sdague | 3) figure out how the board can give us vendor based usage data that's not coming through in the survey | 20:12 |
| sdague | so, I guess I want to figure out if those 3 actions are +1/-1 from folks | 20:12 |
| sdague | then, there is disagreement about preamble | 20:12 |
| sdague | and we can figure out what's the deal breakers there | 20:13 |
| mriedem | i'm +1 on those 3 actions fwiw | 20:13 |
| mriedem | but just a lowly pawn | 20:13 |
| mriedem | and was my takeaway from the summit session | 20:13 |
| fungi | dhellmann: thanks. i'm squarely in the "we (the tc) should not require projects to accept or maintain patches which implement support for databases they don't feel like using" camp | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | mriedem : well, you rep a vendor that uses postgresql, right? | 20:13 |
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| EmilienM | +1 | 20:13 |
| smcginnis | SO can we get a show of hands - who backs 1 above? | 20:13 |
| mriedem | dhellmann: i do | 20:13 |
| dims | o/ | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | smcginnis : do you want to use #vote to keep track? | 20:13 |
| fungi | #1 seems fine to me | 20:14 |
| smcginnis | dhellmann: Would that be better? | 20:14 |
| dtroyer | ++ #1 | 20:14 |
| * dhellmann shrugs | 20:14 | |
| dhellmann | I support option 1 | 20:14 |
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| dtroyer | at this point I think we're looking for opposition to any of those three? | 20:14 |
| sdague | we're pretty light in terms of TC membership today, so this is more about sorting out what we think the final proposal should look like | 20:14 |
| mriedem | +1 to #1 (documenting the <first class support) | 20:14 |
| smcginnis | dhellmann: Was thinking just semi-informal, but maybe that would help make it more official. | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | sdague : good point | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | smcginnis : oh, no, I just meant so you didn't have to count :-) | 20:15 |
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| sdague | so, right, I think the important point is to figure out if anyone objects to any of 1, 2, 3 that's in attendance | 20:15 |
| smcginnis | sdague: Final proposal as far as pg support, or final proposal as to hwo we are going to document it? | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | sifting through the usual level of chatter might have been hard, but we seem to be well-behaved today | 20:15 |
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| sdague | smcginnis: final version of whatever this is | 20:15 |
| cdent | I half-object to #2 | 20:15 |
| sdague | cdent: ok, because? | 20:15 |
| fungi | #2 just seems like collecting data | 20:16 |
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| dims | sdague : i support all 3 points above | 20:16 |
| dims | and options fungi | 20:16 |
| mriedem | cdent: isn't #2 also in yours? | 20:16 |
| fungi | though i guess collecting information on an option could imply that we consider it a possibility and give false hope where there maybe should be none | 20:16 |
| cdent | I think we should do #1 but not do #2 because it implies that we don't want postgres and I think that's a backwards step, from my perspective. I can live with it, so I won't vote against it or anything, but I do think it represents a contrary to what we're trying to do | 20:16 |
| cdent | mriedem: yes, but I don't really want that one | 20:17 |
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| sdague | cdent: that seems very odd to me | 20:17 |
| cdent | I would have written a much string alternative if it was just me | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | fungi : I believe the SUSE folks are planning to migrate regardless of the outcome, and they're doing that research. | 20:17 |
| mriedem | cdent: confused - it's your change :) | 20:17 |
| sdague | because I can't imagine actually deciding to deprecate and remove pg without knowing the cost to current users | 20:17 |
| fungi | dhellmann: right, i knew what it was a reference to | 20:17 |
| cdent | I think I've made it pretty clear throughout this process that I think supporting multi-dbs is a first class goal: a sign of correctness and maturity | 20:18 |
| rockyg | cdent, ++ | 20:18 |
| sdague | cdent: ok, so because of that it's not possible to understand alternatives? | 20:18 |
| cdent | I wrote the shortened version of the document to see how people would react to a simpler expression of what was effectively the goals that sean expressed, but without all the stuff about mysql itself | 20:18 |
| mriedem | #2 is all fact finding i thought - if it's prohibitively expensive to migrate from pg to mysql | 20:19 |
| fungi | but i can understand if officially seeking input on the costs of transitioning and then deciding to stick by the lack of support anyway in light of that information could lead some to think that we didn't really want the information and were simply paying lip service | 20:19 |
| cdent | sdague: it is fine to investigate the path, but it is wasted effort if we never choose to take it | 20:19 |
| cdent | and I don't think we should take it | 20:19 |
| sdague | cdent: it's not even our effort | 20:19 |
| sdague | the suse team is already doing it | 20:19 |
| cdent | so why waste the effort when there is so much else to do? | 20:19 |
| cdent | the suse team is as much as anyone else | 20:19 |
| sdague | basically it's just whether or not we want to supress the info | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | what if we phrase that one as "do nothing else until the suse team reports back" | 20:19 |
| cdent | and if they do it, we can still benefit from the info without having legislated it | 20:20 |
| cdent | legislating it indicates encouragement | 20:20 |
| dtroyer | suse made a business decision to spend $$$/time on that, ignoring that information seems a waste | 20:20 |
| cdent | dhellmann: as i said: I'm okay with that | 20:20 |
| fungi | and/or implies that it will influence the decision when it may not | 20:20 |
| cdent | I don't think we should ignore the information | 20:20 |
| cdent | I simply think that these resolutions shape future direction: they are politics | 20:20 |
| sdague | well, it wasn't until we asked about it did they volunteer that they were doing it anyway, and could do it in the open | 20:21 |
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| smcginnis | I do think it's a good data point to have, but I agree with the direction cdent is going in that we should decide, regardless of that effort, if we should strive for DB abstraction as a tenet. | 20:21 |
| cdent | and I think our politics should say: we would like to support many databases, but right now it is hard, halp | 20:21 |
| rockyg | Why not "accept info from outside sources on costs of transitioning, etc? | 20:21 |
| cdent | rockyg: I'd be fine with that too | 20:22 |
| sdague | cdent: right, and I think that's where we disagree about that being a priority in OpenStack | 20:22 |
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| sdague | which was dhellmann's question | 20:22 |
| cdent | sdague: yes | 20:22 |
| dtroyer | so then re-work #2 and #3 to be about collecting information about transition, usage, cost of support, whatever... | 20:22 |
| cdent | yes | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | now we're back to where i suggested we start | 20:22 |
| cdent | yes | 20:22 |
| cdent | :) | 20:22 |
| sdague | dhellmann: right | 20:22 |
| sdague | dhellmann: but we aren't going to agree there | 20:22 |
| rockyg | and along with transition costs, if anyone wants to provide costs of maintaining the abstraction would be nice. | 20:22 |
| sdague | like, litterally aren't going to get to concensus | 20:22 |
| sdague | rockyg: right, that's what I tried to put into the preamble | 20:23 |
| cdent | we are already maintaining the abstraction, we just don't test enough to be confident | 20:23 |
| cdent | so the one single thing we need to do, and then we could stop, is adjust the docs | 20:23 |
| cdent | we don't _need_ to do more | 20:23 |
| cdent | but we have an opportunity to do so | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | so then I guess we do 1 and 3 and drop 2? or will people who want to retain pg support sign off on option 2? | 20:23 |
| cdent | to answer the question about what we want | 20:23 |
| fungi | i'm still unclear on what "support" means in this context. as the tc we're not going to insist that projects work with specific databases right? (or do we already say that they must support mysql even if it makes no sense for their particular data model?) | 20:24 |
| fungi | memories of mongodb debates from years past | 20:24 |
| mordred | we have forced projects to have a sqla driver | 20:25 |
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| dhellmann | I think the idea is for us to clearly say whether postgresql counts as "a database" in our base layer | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | or "a relational database" | 20:25 |
| mriedem | base layer? whoa whoa whoa, that sounds too much like core to me... | 20:25 |
| mriedem | alert alert | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | or if we're going to contract that, to just say mysql-like databases | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | mriedem : you're reading my lines | 20:26 |
| dims | :) | 20:26 |
| fungi | mriedem: the base services list (database, message queue, et cetera) | 20:26 |
| mordred | mriedem: I think he means "the things we assert all openstack services can depend on being there" | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/base-services.html?highlight=base | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | #link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/base-services.html?highlight=base | 20:26 |
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| mriedem | i'm not really serious, sorry about that one | 20:26 |
| sdague | dhellmann: and I don't think that there is concensus there. There is one camp that believes that sqla should be a good enough abstraction for everything. | 20:26 |
| dims | dhellmann : don't think we are ready to state that right now | 20:27 |
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| mordred | I'd go one further | 20:27 |
| sdague | There is another camp that would like to be pushing what we do with the db for user experience, like the zero downtime keystone story | 20:27 |
| sdague | those are trade offs | 20:27 |
| mordred | there is a camp that believes an abstraciton layer is a positive goal that is a mark of maturity and quality (what cdent said) and a camp that maintains that large systems tend to target one backend | 20:27 |
| mriedem | sdague: but can that be done for mysql and if you don't use mysql and are willing to tolerate not having 0-downtime upgrades with postgresql, that's on you? | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | there isn't consensus there now, but I thought that was the whole point of this even coming up? | 20:28 |
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| mordred | we don't even have consensus on that | 20:28 |
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| sdague | mriedem: that's where I'd be fine being | 20:28 |
| mriedem | sdague: me too | 20:28 |
| mriedem | there is all sorts of crap you can't do with nova api if you're not using libvirt | 20:28 |
| sdague | in which case we need to be ok that not all dbs are equal | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | that seems ok to me | 20:28 |
| sdague | as steady state | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | maybe we have more of a consensus than we thought? | 20:28 |
| cdent | mordred: i'm only saying that in terms of using an rdbms. I don't think all the projects should use an RDBMS or even the same RDBMS. It's just that if you do, it's "nice" to give the deployer choice. | 20:28 |
| fungi | i guess i'm just wondering if there's an option for saying "we test these services against mysql, and if you want to try with something else it may work but we won't guarantee (or force) projects to accept fixes to make that possible for you" and leave it at that | 20:28 |
| mriedem | i'm totally fine with the carrot approach | 20:28 |
| sdague | dhellmann: maybe, cdent how do you feel on that? | 20:29 |
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| mordred | cdent: I totally understand and can respect that point of view, and agree with it to a certain scale. but past a certain scale I believe an abstraction layer is actually a detriment not a benefit | 20:29 |
| mriedem | fungi: i'm also good with that - we have a pg dsvm/tempest job in the integrated-gate experimental queue so it's not like we can't run stuff through it | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | fungi : if we're going to be that loose, we should ask projects that reject dbs other than mysql to clearly state that. Otherwise, we need to tighten it up and tell project teams that they do need to accept patches to maintain non-mysql support. | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | modulo review, quality, etc. | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | they can't reject the patch out of hand | 20:29 |
| mordred | so it depends on how well we want to support the "massive scale" part of our mission, imo. that said, I can totally live with the mriedem / sdague description above | 20:30 |
| cdent | sdague: mostly? I agree that it is okay to say "we test most robustly using X" but I have some issues with "you only get desirable feature if you use X" (thinking in this case of the reliance on triggers in keystone (something I don't actually have enough info to comment fully on)) | 20:30 |
| cfriesen_ | fungi: I'm a little apprehensive about saying that projects can reject patches just because they're there to make postgres work | 20:30 |
| fungi | i'm on the fence about whether it's productive to tell projects what kinds of patches they should or can't accept, outside of those which are clearly beyond their scope, legally risky, et cetera | 20:30 |
| mordred | I think we need to be super clear in docs about what does and doesn't work out of the box, and also to try to find the places where db impl is leaking through the API and define that behavior better | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | cdent : graceful degradation until someone provides the patches to make it do otherwise? | 20:31 |
| fungi | cfriesen_: projects already have the leeway to reject all sorts of other patches without us telling them they can | 20:31 |
| cdent | dhellmann: At this stage that seems like we could hope for | 20:31 |
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| sdague | projects prioritize patches on a ton of different grounds, I honestly think that trying to put rules around "you have to accept alternative dbs" seems weird. We did some many slightly nutty things for db2 that was all a waste of people's time | 20:32 |
| smcginnis | fungi: But rejection based on an overall policy is a little different. | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | fungi : the tc is the last stop for resolving these sorts of conflicts. sometimes we do need to make those sorts of statements to avoid conflicts elsewhere. | 20:32 |
| dirk | fungi: isn't the question rather whether openstack infra would provide hosting of a postgresql gate for a particular project? it is not worthwhile to tell a project to accept cross-db support patches if we"re not going to provide testing capability for them | 20:32 |
| mriedem | sdague: slightly nutty? | 20:32 |
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| sdague | mriedem: all those null key migrations | 20:32 |
| mriedem | we put a unique constraint on a unique column... | 20:32 |
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| mordred | dirk: I do not believe infra would do anything to prevent pg support in the gate | 20:32 |
| mordred | pg is an open source database. job content is job content. | 20:32 |
| mriedem | dirk: we already have that | 20:33 |
| fungi | dirk: anyone can apt-get install postgresql in a job. there's nothing for "infra" to support in that regard and i'm happy if people want to test it (official openstack projects or otherwise) | 20:33 |
| mriedem | dirk: it's in the experimental queue for all integrated-gate jobs | 20:33 |
| mordred | fungi: ++ | 20:33 |
| sdague | dirk: right, any open source stuff has been welcome in the gate in various efforts | 20:33 |
| mriedem | er projects that use the integrated-gate jobs | 20:33 |
| dirk | thanks, so the summary is "we welcome projects to test against postgresql but don't require it going forward" | 20:34 |
| smcginnis | I'd like to see if we can go back to the first thing and see if there is agreement that at a minimum for now, we at least document the state of non-mysql support. | 20:34 |
| dirk | well, it could be one of the summarys. sorry | 20:34 |
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| mriedem | smcginnis: i think we're all agreeing on docs | 20:34 |
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| dhellmann | smcginnis : yes, I think we all agreed on that. | 20:34 |
| dtroyer | smcginnis, mriedem: ++ | 20:34 |
| sdague | so... agreed thus far is 1 & 3 in the action list | 20:34 |
| sdague | ? | 20:35 |
| smcginnis | Then the question comes to which of the porposals are we most OK with? | 20:35 |
| smcginnis | For docs. | 20:35 |
| fungi | dirk: i think that's where my personal preference lies, but willing to compromise if the rest of the community has conflicting needs in that regard | 20:35 |
| mriedem | smcginnis: i think both say basically the same thing | 20:35 |
| mriedem | put warnings in the docs | 20:35 |
| * EmilienM is very sorry and has to drop off for family reasons (22.35pm here) | 20:35 | |
| smcginnis | EmilienM: thanks! | 20:36 |
| fungi | g'night EmilienM | 20:36 |
| smcginnis | cdent: Did you have concerns about the first of the two docs patches? | 20:36 |
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| smcginnis | Or did we now lose quorum? | 20:37 |
| cdent | smcginnis: ? | 20:37 |
| dims | still here.. | 20:37 |
| mriedem | i had a clarification question on docs in cdent's patch | 20:37 |
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| rocky_g | dhellmann, made it eight, so down one leaves 7 | 20:37 |
| mriedem | but i think both say the same thing | 20:37 |
| smcginnis | cdent: There are the two proposed docs patches. There was a reason for creating the second one out of a valid concern, correct? | 20:37 |
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| smcginnis | rocky_g: thanks! | 20:38 |
| cfriesen_ | the most recent version of sdague's is quite a bit different from the original verison, I think | 20:38 |
| cdent | smcginnis: you're talking about the two different proposals from me and sean or something else? | 20:38 |
| sdague | cfriesen_: yeh, I was really trying to capture what I thought was concensus out of the session in Boston | 20:38 |
| smcginnis | cdent: Yes, sorry, your vs sdague's/ | 20:38 |
| smcginnis | If we all agree we need it documented, and the first patch (sdague's) is now updated to be more acceptable, can we abandon the second one and at least get that out of the way. | 20:39 |
| dims | apart from verbosity are the two conflicted in any major way? (latest revs) | 20:39 |
| dims | smcginnis : i'd support that | 20:39 |
| cdent | Yeah, amongst my concerns about sdague's was that it is easy to read as "we really just want to support mysql and that's what we should do" so wrote the second one leaving out all the stuff about mysql (except for that one section) so that it is more about postgresql | 20:39 |
| dims | cdent : does it still read that way? (latest rev) | 20:40 |
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| smcginnis | cdent: Are you now OK with the original patch? | 20:40 |
| cdent | I dont' feel strongly enough about it to vote against that proposal but _did_ feel strongly enough to present a different version | 20:40 |
| smcginnis | I just see this overall "should we support multiple DBs" taking longer than this meeting, so my hope is we can at least walk away from this with the current state documented and agreed on. | 20:41 |
| smcginnis | cdent: OK, sorry to put you on the spot. | 20:41 |
| mriedem | maybe propose clarifying wording and -1 sdague's change, and continue to -1 until it's worded how you'd want, but drop the 2nd change so we can focus on one change | 20:41 |
| mriedem | or don't, whatever :) | 20:41 |
| sdague | I will state that there are definitely folks that don't like the tone which does state mysql* is more supported | 20:41 |
| cdent | version seven is still, to me, "let's use mysql" in disguise | 20:41 |
| sdague | right, and I think that's where we're eventually going to hit a wall, because there is that split | 20:42 |
| dirk | sdague: thats where mordred "s comment comes in : OpenStack is more focused around mysql (rather than saying "support") | 20:42 |
| dirk | sdague: and I think that solves the conflict | 20:42 |
| dims | cdent : i prefer to lean that way to show that we will pull trigger some time down the road | 20:42 |
| sdague | dirk: ok, so maybe a next step would be mordred to redraft that ? | 20:43 |
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| dirk | "support" is to be avoided unless you want to end up in endless debates, basically | 20:43 |
| sdague | dirk: ok, I tried to define support in the last version | 20:43 |
| cdent | dims pull which trigger? | 20:43 |
| mriedem | dims: what trigger? | 20:43 |
| dirk | sdague: I think the current comments on your review just need to be incorporated and then it's good (for me at least) | 20:43 |
| cfriesen_ | dims: but what if people step up to support postgres? (which was one of the things mentioned) | 20:43 |
| mriedem | the one that kills pg in openstack? | 20:43 |
| dims | drop pgsql in 2-3 years | 20:43 |
| mriedem | dims: we're not even talking about that | 20:43 |
| dirk | sdague: both mordred and me made concrete wording improvements | 20:43 |
| cdent | yeah, exactly, that's why I don't want that version :) | 20:43 |
| dims | cfriesen_ : right then we reconsider | 20:43 |
| dirk | sdague: in a review comment. | 20:43 |
| sdague | I'll also admit, I've done so many iterations and shifts here I'm getting pretty blind on making changes that make sense | 20:43 |
| mordred | sdague: I can respin if you like | 20:44 |
| dims | lol sdague | 20:44 |
| dims | i know it's tough | 20:44 |
| sdague | dirk: ok, maybe would you like to intergrate those changes? | 20:44 |
| mordred | or dirk can - either way | 20:44 |
| sdague | that might make sure we get a balance you are comfortable with | 20:44 |
| sdague | and have drafting by someone that's not seen as tainted with a particular POV that I know mordred and I are perceived as | 20:45 |
| dims | so we settle down on the sdague governance patch and interate there | 20:45 |
| edleafe | Decalring what the current state is, and how we got there, is the part everyone seems to agree on. Seems the differences are on where we move from here | 20:45 |
| smcginnis | dims: +1 | 20:45 |
| mordred | dirk: you ok with taking the next iteration? | 20:45 |
| edleafe | Keep going in that direction, or change course | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | are we going to keep all 3 steps? or drop it down to just the first one? | 20:45 |
| dims | dirk : thanks in advance :) | 20:45 |
| dirk | mordred: I can give it a try | 20:45 |
| mordred | dirk: awesome! | 20:45 |
| smcginnis | #action dirk to update sdague's first documentation patch | 20:45 |
| cdent | I think having dirk take a pass is a good idea | 20:45 |
| dims | s/documentation/governance :) | 20:46 |
| dirk | #undo | 20:46 |
| smcginnis | #undo | 20:46 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: #action dirk to update sdague's first documentation patch | 20:46 |
| smcginnis | #action dirk to update sdague's first governance patch | 20:46 |
| dirk | thanks :) | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | thanks, dirk | 20:46 |
| smcginnis | cdent: But you would like to hold on to your alternative? | 20:47 |
| dims | k. me switching to partially here mode then | 20:47 |
| sdague | thanks dirk | 20:47 |
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| * smcginnis wonders if we technically have quorum then. | 20:47 | |
| cdent | And I'll say now that I'll comment on dirk's version with my particular perspective (too much mysql!) if it is necessary. | 20:47 |
| sdague | cdent: sounds reasonable | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | cdent : ++ | 20:47 |
| dims | thanks cdent | 20:47 |
| cdent | I think that seems like the best way to iterate at this point | 20:47 |
| smcginnis | cdent: +1 | 20:47 |
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| cdent | smcginnis: since we're not voting we don't really need quorum: we just chattin' | 20:48 |
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| smcginnis | Oh, true. :) | 20:48 |
| sdague | so, the only real remaining sticking bits were whether point #2 / #3 need to be changed around | 20:48 |
| smcginnis | Watercooler talk, eh | 20:48 |
| sdague | they were captured because of the boston session | 20:48 |
| sdague | as things we wanted | 20:48 |
| sdague | for different reasons | 20:48 |
| dhellmann | I think we're all happy with point 3? | 20:49 |
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| fungi | i think we may be down to 7 present (me, cdent, dims, dhellmann, mordred, sdague, smcginnis) | 20:49 |
| dtroyer | o/ | 20:49 |
| smcginnis | Only half of a dims though. :) | 20:49 |
| cdent | 3 is: work with foundation to get better data of current state of affairs? | 20:49 |
| sdague | dhellmann: I have not heard objections to 3 | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | folks, I don't think we need quorum because we're making an action plan not a final decision | 20:49 |
| smcginnis | sdague: +1 | 20:49 |
| fungi | oh, right, dtroyer's here so long as dims is at least partly here still | 20:49 |
| sdague | cdent: yeh, so for instance purp and I had a bunch of conversations out of band on this review | 20:49 |
| sdague | and his objections included | 20:50 |
| * smcginnis notes there will be no voting | 20:50 | |
| sdague | - we have no idea what switching cost would even be (agree) | 20:50 |
| sdague | - the openstack survey is not scientific (also agree) | 20:50 |
| smcginnis | Agreed | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | those are fair points | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | I still think it's OK to point out that the survey could be improved. | 20:50 |
| sdague | and the SAP folks in the room did actually say they didn't realize that the survey was used to make decisions | 20:50 |
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| sdague | otherwise they might have filled it out | 20:51 |
| mriedem | ha | 20:51 |
| mriedem | btw, | 20:51 |
| dhellmann | how many years have we been doing that? | 20:51 |
| mriedem | everyone is running cells v1 according to the survey | 20:51 |
| mriedem | surprise! | 20:51 |
| sdague | mriedem: yeh :) | 20:51 |
| smcginnis | dhellmann: For some reason I thought I saw this was our 7th user survey. | 20:51 |
| smcginnis | But I could be completely making that up. | 20:52 |
| sdague | it is also the reason that the last draft talks about lines of evidence which all seem to align with the 10 to 1 (or more) ratio | 20:52 |
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| sdague | but, there are a ton of users that aren't making a decision, they are just canonical, red hat, suse, windriver, huawei customers | 20:52 |
| sdague | that are just getting their defaults, and probably never showed up | 20:52 |
| sdague | in our survey | 20:53 |
| cfriesen_ | as someone who works at a company that produces an opinionated openstack install, our customers may not actually *know* the answers to the survey...should we be feeding them the answers and asking them to fill it out? | 20:53 |
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| smcginnis | I guess I'll stir the pot again - regardless of the data, is there a desire to have DB abstraction/agnosticism in the community? | 20:53 |
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| sdague | cfriesen_: that's kind of the ask in #3, start the conversation about that collection | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | cfriesen_ : the idea is to have distributors provide some info about their defaults and their customer base size | 20:53 |
| fungi | cfriesen_: some of the takeaway for the survey team was that distros be able to sort of "proxy" answers or something along those lines | 20:53 |
| mriedem | smcginnis: i have 0 desire to talk about that again right now | 20:53 |
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| mriedem | in this meeting | 20:53 |
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| sdague | mriedem: right | 20:54 |
| sdague | my biggest concerns is not to surprise any new users by them thinking they are more supported than they are | 20:54 |
| cdent | that's a shame as that seems to be the key issue. the reason we needed a meeting | 20:54 |
| cfriesen_ | smcginnis: I think there is a desire by some people, and not by others. :) | 20:54 |
| smcginnis | Well, the previous comments about it were all interlaced with wether the data supported it or not. | 20:54 |
| smcginnis | So I was hhoping we could clearly state one way or the other whether we even cared. | 20:54 |
| sdague | and to not prevent advanced things like zero downtime services unless they build it with an abstraciton | 20:54 |
| smcginnis | Because if not, the rest is moot. | 20:54 |
| sdague | smcginnis: it's not though | 20:55 |
| sdague | it's grey space | 20:55 |
| sdague | we're definitely going to keep supporting mysql* | 20:55 |
| sdague | and do advanced things there | 20:55 |
| fungi | i can say that i don't personally care whether openstack is db-agnostic, but i assume the question is more whether we think the openstack community as a whole cares | 20:55 |
| mriedem | in general abstraction is good, in practice there are exceptions | 20:55 |
| sdague | and the rest... show up and fill out the feature set if you care | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | let's not get into that cycle again | 20:55 |
| cfriesen_ | does the abstraction really prevent mysql from making progress if we don't require feature-parity from different DBs? | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | item 3 seems to have support? | 20:56 |
| cdent | "and do advanced things there" | 20:56 |
| cdent | dhellmann: yes | 20:56 |
| sdague | dhellmann: I think so | 20:56 |
| mriedem | dhellmann: +1 to #3 from me about better data | 20:56 |
| dhellmann | ok, so should we drop item 2 from the next draft? | 20:56 |
| dhellmann | and consider that separately? | 20:56 |
| cdent | I think so | 20:56 |
| dhellmann | as part of any future action? | 20:56 |
| sdague | could we just soften it? | 20:56 |
| mordred | cfriesen_: I think that's key - and I think we can certainly structure things such that we _can_ make progress | 20:56 |
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| dhellmann | maybe? how would you soften it, sdague? | 20:56 |
| sdague | it was a specific ask "how hard would this be?" | 20:56 |
| sdague | lots of people were asking that in the room, including you dhellmann | 20:57 |
| * cdent I'm a grape in the path of the steamroller of progress: I _don't_ think we should do "advanced things" withing the persitence layer | 20:57 | |
| cdent | within* | 20:57 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I'm not saying we don't do the work, I'm just saying we don't put it into the resolution | 20:57 |
| fungi | cfriesen_: are other dbs without implemented feature parity in the software and without substantial testing and subject matter experts upstream actually something we should be recommending as a solution? that's the important question i think | 20:57 |
| sdague | dhellmann: ok, so where are we keeping track of the fact that we are doing that work, and we want to report on it? | 20:57 |
| dhellmann | us including item 2 or not isn't going to change suse's next steps, right? | 20:57 |
| mriedem | if advanced things means scaling to a million nodes, then i'm cool with advanced things | 20:57 |
| smcginnis | 2 minute warning | 20:58 |
| sdague | dhellmann: us asking for that may change how they surface it | 20:58 |
| dhellmann | sdague : if we have the votes to pass something that includes it, I'm fine with it. I thought we needed to rework things to make it approvable. | 20:58 |
| cfriesen_ | fungi: I see it as the difference between "we're dropping postgres" and "we're not implementing new hotness for postgres, you can do it if you want it" | 20:58 |
| mordred | cdent: I think we must, or else we don't serve our users well | 20:58 |
| dhellmann | I don't have a problem with keeping it in | 20:58 |
| cfriesen_ | fungi: the difference is mainly for people already using postgres with lots of sunk costs | 20:59 |
| mordred | cdent: but it's highly possible we mean different things by "advanced things" | 20:59 |
| fungi | cfriesen_: well, my take is that we can't drop something we never had | 20:59 |
| cdent | mordred: potentially | 20:59 |
| cfriesen_ | fungi: practically speaking it works quite well currently | 20:59 |
| dims | smcginnis : thanks for running the show today | 20:59 |
| smcginnis | dims: No problem | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | yeah, thanks smcginnis, this wasn't an easy one | 20:59 |
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| smcginnis | Pretty much at time. Thanks everyone. | 20:59 |
| sdague | thanks | 20:59 |
| mordred | cdent: because I CERTAINYL do not think we should do 'advanced' things in the persistence layer like triggers or stored procedures | 20:59 |
| sdague | and thanks dirk for stepping up | 21:00 |
| smcginnis | I'm sure there will be more of these to come. | 21:00 |
| mordred | dirk: ++ | 21:00 |
| smcginnis | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 6 21:00:14 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-06-06-20.00.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-06-06-20.00.txt | 21:00 |
| cdent | thanks for running the show smcginnis | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-06-06-20.00.log.html | 21:00 |
| cdent | thanks for taking the next task dirk | 21:00 |
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| mordred | ++ | 21:00 |
| dims | smcginnis : thanks for running the show today | 21:00 |
| dims | ++ dirk | 21:00 |
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| smcginnis | dirk: I think you got the only concrete action item. :] | 21:00 |
| * dirk feels honored :) | 21:01 | |
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| fungi | thanks dirk! | 21:02 |
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