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| oneswig | #startmeeting scientific_wg | 09:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Feb 1 09:00:51 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is oneswig. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 09:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 09:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)" | 09:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg' | 09:00 |
| oneswig | Hello! | 09:01 |
| oneswig | #link agenda for today https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group#IRC_Meeting_February_1st_2017 | 09:01 |
| priteau | Hello! | 09:01 |
| oneswig | Morning priteau! | 09:02 |
| oneswig | Quiet one today ... | 09:02 |
| priteau | Small crowd today? | 09:02 |
| oneswig | How are you Pierre, your deadline's coming up? | 09:02 |
| *** b1airo has joined #openstack-meeting | 09:03 | |
| oneswig | #chair b1airo | 09:03 |
| openstack | Current chairs: b1airo oneswig | 09:03 |
| oneswig | g'day Blair, you made it :-) | 09:03 |
| b1airo | hallo | 09:03 |
| b1airo | finally! | 09:03 |
| priteau | oneswig: yeah we're in full swing | 09:03 |
| oneswig | We were just getting going but it's just me and priteau thus far | 09:03 |
| b1airo | yes sorry for the being AWOL | 09:04 |
| oneswig | priteau: new phase for chameleon? | 09:04 |
| zioproto | hello | 09:04 |
| oneswig | Hi zioproto! | 09:04 |
| b1airo | hi priteau zioproto ! | 09:04 |
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| oneswig | b1airo priteau zioproto: I was wondering, what metrics do you use to gauge success on a cloud infrastructure project? | 09:05 |
| zioproto | oneswig, not bankrupting is a good start :) | 09:05 |
| priteau | oneswig: review of the current phase first | 09:05 |
| zioproto | oneswig, no kidding, is very different if you have paying customers or not | 09:06 |
| oneswig | two good points. Sounds like the old "three envelopes" story :-) | 09:06 |
| oneswig | Isn't SWITCH public funded? | 09:06 |
| zioproto | if you have paying customers it is easy to measure the success. But usually in research the people dont pay for cloud resources provided by an institution. Or at least they dont pay like they would pay amazon. So it is more difficult to measure | 09:07 |
| priteau | oneswig: for a non commercial cloud, I would say utilization rate (quantity) and user success stories (quality) | 09:07 |
| b1airo | hmm i suppose for private/hybrid cloud you'd have to define what success looks like before embarking... seems there are a lot of stories of management having the expectation that simply using cloud infrastructure will automatically make them more agile, but reality is somewhat different | 09:07 |
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| StefanPaetowJisc | Good morning all | 09:08 |
| zioproto | oneswig, I wish it was ! :) We dont run the cloud on public money. We have a tarif on our website. | 09:08 |
| oneswig | Hi StefanPaetowJisc | 09:08 |
| b1airo | Hi Stefan | 09:08 |
| oneswig | OK, thanks for that, think it answers my question! | 09:08 |
| oneswig | Lets look at the agenda... | 09:08 |
| StefanPaetowJisc | Sorry I'm late! | 09:09 |
| oneswig | Before we get going, anyone going to the PTG in Atlanta in a few weeks? | 09:09 |
| oneswig | I am not but one of our team is | 09:09 |
| zioproto | I cant go to US anymore :) | 09:09 |
| StefanPaetowJisc | Not me I'm afraid... the US is now out of bounds for me | 09:09 |
| oneswig | zioproto: legally - or morally? | 09:10 |
| priteau | Not me either | 09:10 |
| zioproto | oneswig, Iranian wife | 09:10 |
| verdurin | Morning - I'm not supposed to be here, but keeping an eye open | 09:10 |
| StefanPaetowJisc | Crazy, isn't it? | 09:10 |
| oneswig | Ah. I am outraged on your behalf... | 09:10 |
| oneswig | Hi verdurin, we'll keep it quiet :-) | 09:10 |
| zioproto | I have at least 1 trip to Iran every year since 2011, I dont want to be sent back after 6 hours flight just because I have been visiting my mother in law | 09:11 |
| zioproto | so, for me no PTG and no Boston | 09:11 |
| StefanPaetowJisc | Yeah, given current circumstances you wouldn't even get to board | 09:11 |
| oneswig | zioproto: I don't think it would be a good experience if that happened | 09:11 |
| b1airo | sad | 09:12 |
| oneswig | OK, how about Italy everyone? | 09:12 |
| oneswig | #topic Milan Ops meetup | 09:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Milan Ops meetup (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)" | 09:12 | |
| zioproto | I am going ! :) | 09:12 |
| oneswig | Any takers? I booked a ticket this week | 09:12 |
| StefanPaetowJisc | I'll have a word with my boss to check if it's ok to go | 09:12 |
| StefanPaetowJisc | He's in the office today | 09:13 |
| oneswig | StefanPaetowJisc: It's even closer than Rome, you have a clear precedent :-) | 09:13 |
| zioproto | I am looking for other operators in Milano that are working on Kolla | 09:13 |
| oneswig | zioproto: you're working on Kolla? We are working on Kolla :-) | 09:13 |
| StefanPaetowJisc | Haha. And it's Milano. | 09:13 |
| zioproto | I have done a lot of work because we want to migrate our control plane to Kolla, but is hard to get documentation or talk to people with experience | 09:13 |
| zioproto | oneswig, good to know ! on ubuntu ?? | 09:14 |
| oneswig | Ubuntu? No, sorry. Not this time. | 09:14 |
| verdurin | zioproto: Kolla or Stackanetes? Or Kolla-Kubernetes? | 09:14 |
| zioproto | now I am trying Kolla-ansible | 09:14 |
| zioproto | on stable/newton | 09:14 |
| zioproto | I am installing the operator seed node using snapcraft.io | 09:14 |
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| oneswig | verdurin: for us it's Kolla without Kubernetes, don't need that level of dynamism for launching the control plane, it's not that big for this system | 09:15 |
| zioproto | because Kolla is not packaged for ubuntu | 09:15 |
| zioproto | it would be nice to gather in Milano with other people that use Kolla | 09:15 |
| verdurin | If I get to go, very happy to contribute | 09:16 |
| oneswig | OK so we are deploying an Ironic system and developing Kolla containers for Monasca. Should be well underway by the Milan meetup (and I should know a little more about it by then) | 09:16 |
| zioproto | oneswig, are you using centos ? | 09:16 |
| zioproto | I think the most important thing to discuss is how you migrate from a existing cloud based on something else, to Kolla | 09:16 |
| oneswig | One of our team - the guy going to the PTG - is well experienced in it and knows the way... | 09:16 |
| oneswig | zioproto: CentOS, possible RHEL | 09:17 |
| zioproto | oneswig, who is legendary person | 09:17 |
| zioproto | ?? | 09:17 |
| zioproto | oneswig, is this person coming to Milano as well ?? | 09:17 |
| b1airo | zioproto, i agree - very much like the look of kolla... but how to get there when we have existing control plane and puppet configs?? | 09:17 |
| oneswig | Mark Goddard - was in my team at Cray | 09:17 |
| StefanPaetowJisc | Why does that name ring a bell? | 09:18 |
| zioproto | b1airo, lets say I have more or less a plan, but I need to discuss it face to face with others to understand if it is doable | 09:18 |
| oneswig | zioproto: it's an interesting possibility... I'll ask him | 09:18 |
| b1airo | excellent, i will watch this space and hope to benefit! | 09:18 |
| verdurin | zioproto: you're basically after something like the ceph-ansible playbook that does exactly this for Ceph | 09:18 |
| zioproto | b1airo, my idea is to describe also the existing puppet infrastructure in the kolla inventoruy, and then run kolla-ansible with --tags and --limits | 09:18 |
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| oneswig | zioproto: Is there already a session on Kolla planned? | 09:20 |
| b1airo | so kolla to deploy and containerise but optionally using puppet inside the containers or something along those lines...? | 09:20 |
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| zioproto | b1airo, no, no puppet in the containers | 09:21 |
| zioproto | have you seen the Dockerfile.j2 shipped with Kolla ? | 09:22 |
| zioproto | there is one for each container | 09:22 |
| zioproto | if you read one of them, start with the horizon | 09:22 |
| zioproto | you immediately figure out that you can throw away your puppet modules | 09:22 |
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| b1airo | i like the sound of that | 09:22 |
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| zioproto | Wait I search a link for you | 09:23 |
| oneswig | zioproto: in-place migration to Kolla... I might look at spending some time crafting the equivalent Ansible config to your existing Puppet, Is that your paln? | 09:23 |
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| oneswig | Morning mgoddard, thanks for joining :-) | 09:23 |
| zioproto | b1airo, https://github.com/openstack/kolla/blob/master/docker/horizon/Dockerfile.j2 | 09:23 |
| b1airo | yes, already open ;-) | 09:23 |
| zioproto | oneswig, it is a bit more because this will also create and run containers for you | 09:24 |
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| zioproto | oneswig, but yes, that is more or less the plan | 09:24 |
| oneswig | zioproto: sure, got it. | 09:24 |
| mgoddard | morning all | 09:25 |
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| oneswig | mgoddard: we were just talking about how one might migrate to Kolla in-place from something non-containerised | 09:25 |
| StefanPaetowJisc | Good morning mgoddard | 09:25 |
| zioproto | #agreed a lot of interest in Kolla during the OPS Milano event | 09:25 |
| mgoddard | we were building up a repeatable migration from systemd to Kolla at Cray | 09:26 |
| mgoddard | it was a PITA :) | 09:26 |
| mgoddard | but is possible | 09:26 |
| zioproto | PITA ? | 09:26 |
| zioproto | ahhh | 09:26 |
| zioproto | I got it | 09:26 |
| zioproto | sorry :) | 09:26 |
| oneswig | Good to see there is lots of interest out there zioproto, as you say | 09:27 |
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| mgoddard | it will depend on your requirements - some downtime will be necessary | 09:27 |
| zioproto | for example we would like to keep Ceph out of Kolla, but it is not clear if it is easy to maitain such a hybrid system | 09:27 |
| oneswig | mgoddard: Did you plan an upgrade in a single move or could it be done service by service? | 09:27 |
| zioproto | also, is kolla-ansible going to be maintaned ? or kolla-kubernetes will win ? | 09:28 |
| mgoddard | zioproto: the focus is one kolla-kubernetes currently but I think that's mostly because it's shiny | 09:28 |
| mgoddard | I certainly hope they continue to support kolla-ansible, kubernetes is one turtle too many for most deployments IMHO | 09:29 |
| zioproto | unfortunately I have a physical meeting at 10:30 ... I will keep an eye on the chat if you tag me for specific questions, otherwise I will read the logs later ! sorry ! | 09:29 |
| oneswig | See you later zioproto | 09:29 |
| StefanPaetowJisc | Bye zioproto | 09:29 |
| mgoddard | should be possible to upgrade service by service, with care (use enable_* feature flags and ansible tags where they fail) | 09:30 |
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| oneswig | mgoddard: might enable you to gain confidence in the method, changing one thing at a time | 09:30 |
| oneswig | ... or might protract the pain endlessly... | 09:30 |
| oneswig | OK - move on? | 09:31 |
| mgoddard | probably both | 09:31 |
| oneswig | #topic Boston summit | 09:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Boston summit (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)" | 09:31 | |
| oneswig | Round we go again, only ever so slightly faster | 09:32 |
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| oneswig | Anyone with plans to speak, your deadline for submission is next Monday | 09:32 |
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| b1airo | oneswig, i notice the agenda said "WG room bookings submitted" | 09:32 |
| oneswig | Ah, a slight error of tense / possibly optimistic on my part | 09:33 |
| b1airo | ah dang, i was so hopeful | 09:33 |
| oneswig | I had the plan to book the meeting plus double-bill BoF last night, but had to put up some curtains instead | 09:33 |
| b1airo | sounds like a similar evening all round | 09:33 |
| oneswig | We could, given it's been discussed, assume they are filed | 09:33 |
| StefanPaetowJisc | Hahaha! | 09:33 |
| oneswig | and I'll do it after the meeting :-) | 09:34 |
| StefanPaetowJisc | Ok, got your email by the way, oneswig | 09:34 |
| oneswig | StefanPaetowJisc: great | 09:34 |
| b1airo | sounds great - was that the consensus we ended up with in terms of WG sessions? | 09:35 |
| oneswig | b1airo: I think so. How the two sessions are filled I recall discussion but forget details | 09:35 |
| oneswig | Lightning talks and open discussion perhaps | 09:35 |
| b1airo | ok, i need to catch up on the meeting logs | 09:35 |
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| b1airo | yes that was certainly one of the original suggestions | 09:36 |
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| StefanPaetowJisc | Ditto | 09:36 |
| oneswig | One development in progress - I have OpenStack-ised the documents from the last cycle and added empty space for gathering data from this cycle | 09:36 |
| oneswig | #link generated output from sphinx: http://www.telfer.org/~stig/scientific-wg/ | 09:36 |
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| b1airo | nice work oneswig ! | 09:37 |
| verdurin | That's an ugly verbing, oneswig | 09:37 |
| priteau | oneswig: Looks great! | 09:37 |
| oneswig | Sorry, perhaps I should have verdurinned my sentence first? | 09:37 |
| StefanPaetowJisc | Hahaha | 09:37 |
| verdurin | Very useful work, though | 09:38 |
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| oneswig | So I'm hopeful we can put together a few additional topics from this cycle. My next plan is to graft in much of the text of zioproto's use case on federation | 09:38 |
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| oneswig | And have the team take it from there. | 09:38 |
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| oneswig | Unless anyone thinks this is the wrong path, I'll start the process of getting it into openstack-infra | 09:39 |
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| StefanPaetowJisc | I'll have a look at what you sent hopefully this week or next | 09:40 |
| oneswig | One idea previously discussed was to organise a working session at the Forum for hacking on it collectively | 09:40 |
| oneswig | To keep the older bits up to date as well | 09:40 |
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| oneswig | Another thought on Boston - anyone know the city enough to propose a venue for a social? I used to live there but my knowledge is old | 09:42 |
| StefanPaetowJisc | Our dev team for Moonshot are based out there so I'll check with them this afternoon what they could suggest | 09:43 |
| oneswig | Thanks StefanPaetowJisc, that'd be very useful | 09:43 |
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| oneswig | OK, any more to add on Boston this week? | 09:44 |
| b1airo | did we get anywhere with the cross-over sessions? | 09:44 |
| oneswig | #action Stig to file request for repo with OpenStack infra | 09:44 |
| oneswig | b1airo: Ah, good point, this must have been the second session... no I don't think so | 09:45 |
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| b1airo | from the mailing lists it seems like there is a fair bit of interest in sessions on quota management and api policy | 09:45 |
| oneswig | The discussion on Pike? | 09:45 |
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| b1airo | the latter is not particularly a scientific problem, but seems to impact our use cases fairly universally | 09:46 |
| b1airo | yes, the Pike thread was one | 09:46 |
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| oneswig | For the summit arrangements, do you know how that session might be organised? | 09:47 |
| b1airo | no, i took an action to figure it out 3 weeks ago and then disappeared down several day job rabbit holes | 09:48 |
| oneswig | I'll have a look afterwards, and if it's not obvious I'll mail Flanders - how's that for a plan | 09:49 |
| b1airo | sounds great thanks oneswig (i have new ceph nodes to get ready for prod...) | 09:49 |
| oneswig | OK, thanks for the reminder b1airo - any more on Boston before we head west to Denver? | 09:50 |
| oneswig | #topic SC2017 workshops | 09:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "SC2017 workshops (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)" | 09:50 | |
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| oneswig | This opportunity came up - we can apply for one (or two) OpenStack hands-on workshops at SC2017 | 09:51 |
| oneswig | There was some discussion on it last week and people were interested. | 09:51 |
| oneswig | Likely more of the US gang were planning on attending though - is anyone here planning to attend SC2017? | 09:52 |
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| StefanPaetowJisc | No... not me | 09:52 |
| priteau | oneswig: I am pretty sure Kate will be there | 09:52 |
| oneswig | I'm probably going, but not guaranteed (especially if I'm going to Sydney) | 09:52 |
| priteau | I probably won't go | 09:53 |
| b1airo | highly like i will be there | 09:53 |
| b1airo | *likely | 09:53 |
| b1airo | particularly as i'll be reviewing papers! | 09:54 |
| oneswig | OK, so it's not fertile ground to hunt for volunteers to help with the workshop. I think it's worth applying given the interest from the group's other wing. | 09:54 |
| oneswig | b1airo: I'd forgotten about that, have you started? | 09:55 |
| oneswig | #topic AOB | 09:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)" | 09:55 | |
| b1airo | yes, i think the first order of business is brainstorming of topics and activities that could fill a workshop | 09:55 |
| b1airo | presumably flanders and his hackathon minions have that format down, but it's not all that clear to me whether the SC crowd would go for it - but i think it's worth proposing for sure | 09:56 |
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| verdurin | Maybe worth mentioning that I'll be attending a meeting with Tim Bell at Sanger in March, regarding CERN's (hyper-)activity | 09:56 |
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| StefanPaetowJisc | Oooooooo! | 09:57 |
| oneswig | b1airo: Last week's discussion split on two themes - infrastructure and application workloads. I was wondering about something like a clinic (susceptible to who turns up, and with what) or a set of worked examples | 09:57 |
| b1airo | as for infra centric stuff, maybe: architecting an openstack cloud for high-performance | 09:57 |
| b1airo | performance tuning and monitoring | 09:58 |
| oneswig | verdurin: sounds good, hopefully see you there. I understand there's an HPC pub night after-party | 09:58 |
| oneswig | b1airo: I think along those lines, makes sense. The application side is more sketchy to me but Heat would kill a few hours... | 09:58 |
| oneswig | We are nearly out of time - Any Other Business? | 09:59 |
| b1airo | however it'd be hard not to make such a workshop opinionated about design/architecture choices, e.g., have to decide up front if we're doing Ironic or Nova KVM | 09:59 |
| verdurin | b1airo: before we go, thanks for you and your colleague's recent help | 09:59 |
| b1airo | verdurin, was that sam? | 10:00 |
| oneswig | Share and enjoy, verdurin b1airo - great to hear it! | 10:00 |
| b1airo | i don't remember doing anything! :-D | 10:00 |
| StefanPaetowJisc | No AOB from me, sorry! | 10:00 |
| oneswig | OK all, we'd better clear off - thanks everyone | 10:01 |
| oneswig | #endmeeting | 10:01 |
| verdurin | Bye | 10:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 10:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Feb 1 10:01:12 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 10:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/scientific_wg.2017-02-01-09.00.html | 10:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/scientific_wg.2017-02-01-09.00.txt | 10:01 |
| StefanPaetowJisc | See you soon | 10:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/scientific_wg.2017-02-01-09.00.log.html | 10:01 |
| b1airo | Good night! | 10:01 |
| StefanPaetowJisc | Night Blair! | 10:01 |
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| priteau | bye all! | 10:02 |
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| ad_rien_ | #startmeeting massively_distributed_clouds | 15:00 |
| ad_rien_ | #chair ad_rien_ | 15:00 |
| ad_rien_ | #info agenda | 15:00 |
| ad_rien_ | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/massively_distributed_ircmeetings_2017 | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Feb 1 15:00:37 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ad_rien_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: massively_distributed_clouds)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'massively_distributed_clouds' | 15:00 |
| openstack | Current chairs: ad_rien_ | 15:00 |
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| serverascode | hello :) | 15:01 |
| ad_rien_ | menthos, denaitre, msimonin, ansmith, rcherrueau, hcoullon | 15:01 |
| ad_rien_ | guys ? | 15:01 |
| kgiusti | hi | 15:01 |
| Menthos | Hey o/ | 15:01 |
| dsantoro | hello | 15:01 |
| ad_rien_ | Hi serverascode | 15:01 |
| ansmith | o/ | 15:01 |
| ad_rien_ | #info agenda | 15:01 |
| ad_rien_ | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/massively_distributed_ircmeetings_2017 line 136 | 15:02 |
| ad_rien_ | OK let's way a couple of seconds, some folks from Orange might join | 15:02 |
| ad_rien_ | us | 15:02 |
| denaitre | hi o/ | 15:02 |
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| ad_rien_ | Ok, before starting may I ask you to add items in the open discussions if there are particular points you would like to discuss, thanks | 15:03 |
| ad_rien_ | so let's start | 15:03 |
| ad_rien_ | #topic Announcement | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcement (Meeting topic: massively_distributed_clouds)" | 15:03 | |
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| ad_rien_ | Some new achievements regarding the ENOS framework as you may have seen on the pad, in particular a Vagrant driver that enables you to test Enos on your machine and a new official docs | 15:04 |
| ad_rien_ | #link http://enos.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ | 15:04 |
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| ad_rien_ | Second point is about the proposal for Boston, we are going to submit with the University of Chicago | 15:05 |
| ad_rien_ | #link https://pad.inria.fr/p/sfBMUvWOpKtmfXT8 if you want to give a look | 15:05 |
| ad_rien_ | and that's all from the Inria side. | 15:05 |
| ad_rien_ | Are there news from your side guys that you would like to share? | 15:06 |
| ad_rien_ | serverascode: some news regarding the NVF Working group that can be shared here? | 15:06 |
| ad_rien_ | ok seems not :-) | 15:07 |
| serverascode | sure, if you mean that we are working on a presentation for the summit on multi-site/cloud? | 15:07 |
| ad_rien_ | yes ? | 15:07 |
| serverascode | ok :) Yup we are working on a joint presentation on an overview of multi site, cloud, distributed etc | 15:08 |
| ad_rien_ | did you make progress? Unless I am mistaken, I didn't see any proposal? | 15:08 |
| serverascode | I am writing the abstract today for the summit proposal | 15:08 |
| serverascode | and will send it out to any intrested parties | 15:08 |
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| serverascode | *interested | 15:08 |
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| serverascode | it'll be on an etherpad | 15:08 |
| ad_rien_ | serverascode ok sound goods | 15:08 |
| ad_rien_ | #action serverascode will share an etherpad regarding the NFV WG presentation that should deal with multi site cloud, distributed etc. | 15:09 |
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| ad_rien_ | anything else? | 15:09 |
| ad_rien_ | if not let's move to the next point | 15:09 |
| serverascode | not from me right now | 15:09 |
| ad_rien_ | #topic deployment scenarios | 15:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "deployment scenarios (Meeting topic: massively_distributed_clouds)" | 15:09 | |
| ad_rien_ | Ok as mentioned in the pad, I think it would be valuable to spend sometimes on this point in order to move forward. | 15:10 |
| dsantoro | we have analysed the proposed scenarios regarding our action item | 15:10 |
| ad_rien_ | maybe we can start from FBK institute | 15:10 |
| ad_rien_ | :) | 15:10 |
| dsantoro | from the last meeting | 15:10 |
| ad_rien_ | please dsantoro | 15:10 |
| dsantoro | yes thanks ad_rien_ | 15:11 |
| dsantoro | Description of our use casesDuring past months we started to analyze few use cases in which our platform could fit and the relative motivation to have a distributed IaaS layer, finally we identified few: | 15:11 |
| dsantoro | Smart traffic light | 15:11 |
| dsantoro | Here is important to overcome network faults and latency having a system more resilient | 15:11 |
| dsantoro | Application placements and roaming (see demo paper @ CloudCom 2016) | 15:11 |
| dsantoro | Here we need persistent storage on the edge to save application state and support the migration of the stateless components | 15:11 |
| dsantoro | Virtual reality gaming | 15:11 |
| dsantoro | Need to have the video elaboration and the application state on the edge due to low latency requirements | 15:11 |
| dsantoro | Privacy and data | 15:11 |
| dsantoro | Again need of storage on the edge | 15:11 |
| dsantoro | Distributed content caching on the edge | 15:11 |
| dsantoro | Probably need of placement control over the distributed storage | 15:11 |
| dsantoro | Dimensioning and optimization of the control channel | 15:11 |
| dsantoro | so about our preferred choice: | 15:11 |
| dsantoro | Based on the above use-cases we would exclude s1 and s2 for the final platform mainly because we need availability of all resources offered by a IaaS in the edge not only computational resources. Maybe what we are looking for is a yet different scenario in which we have a complete (but small) OpenStack environment installed on the edge nodes that are federated with others. | 15:11 |
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| dsantoro | finally, since the WG agreed to start with testing s1 we think it could be a good architecture where to start also our experiments on bare metal edge nodes we would like to setup in the near future. | 15:12 |
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| ad_rien_ | dsantoro: are you done? | 15:13 |
| dsantoro | yes | 15:13 |
| ad_rien_ | thanks | 15:13 |
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| ad_rien_ | so regarding the first remark, I think you right, | 15:13 |
| ad_rien_ | HA can be an issue with S1 | 15:13 |
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| ad_rien_ | but this is the simplest way to operate a massively distributed cloud | 15:14 |
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| ad_rien_ | the idea would be to evaluate the impact of network latency, bandwidth and disconnections | 15:14 |
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| ad_rien_ | When you said: "because we need availability of all resources offered by a IaaS in the edge not only computational resources." | 15:15 |
| dsantoro | sure and in some use-cases HA is vital like in traffic light example | 15:15 |
| ad_rien_ | what do you mean by not only computational resorces ? | 15:15 |
| ad_rien_ | resources sorry sir | 15:15 |
| ad_rien_ | i.e. we can maybe envision to run some workloads (either in VM or container sandboxing technologies) | 15:16 |
| dsantoro | I mean that basically we think we need for sure CPU and RAM capacity on the edge node | 15:16 |
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| ad_rien_ | at the edge and these workloads can be temporarily disconnected from the rest of the architecture. | 15:16 |
| dsantoro | but for instance we are thinking on scenarios where we need to cache data (of videos) for example | 15:16 |
| dsantoro | inthe edge nodes | 15:16 |
| ad_rien_ | (i.e. the important aspect is that those workloads can discuss with the edge sensors, facilities) | 15:16 |
| ad_rien_ | ok ? | 15:16 |
| dsantoro | so in this case we ned soem sort of distributed storage also | 15:17 |
| ad_rien_ | ok | 15:17 |
| ad_rien_ | basically you are tallking abou having swift | 15:17 |
| dsantoro | yes | 15:17 |
| ad_rien_ | (or a swift like solution) | 15:17 |
| dsantoro | could be | 15:17 |
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| ad_rien_ | swift is already distributed so this could be feasible but this is a good remark | 15:17 |
| ad_rien_ | try to extend this deployment scenarios analysis with the swift component | 15:18 |
| ad_rien_ | #action Extend the scenarios deployment with object stores servies such as Swift. | 15:18 |
| dsantoro | we analysed also the case in which we have a stateless tier of an applicaiton | 15:18 |
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| dsantoro | running on the IoT GWs | 15:18 |
| ad_rien_ | can you elaborate a bit more? | 15:19 |
| dsantoro | and it needs stateful/persitence on the edge node | 15:19 |
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| dsantoro | to support migration | 15:19 |
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| ad_rien_ | not sure I correctly understood the point. Can you please explain? | 15:19 |
| dsantoro | (this is what we shown during CloudCom) | 15:19 |
| ad_rien_ | ok | 15:19 |
| ad_rien_ | I remind the IoT gateway use-case | 15:19 |
| dsantoro | image to have a container running on the closest layer in the GW (very close to user) | 15:19 |
| ad_rien_ | ok | 15:20 |
| dsantoro | that container retrieve temperature data form a user sensor | 15:20 |
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| dsantoro | now the user move | 15:20 |
| ad_rien_ | so you have a container running on the Gateway, right? and what are the requirement on the edge cloud? | 15:20 |
| ad_rien_ | ok | 15:20 |
| ad_rien_ | go on please | 15:20 |
| dsantoro | to GW2 | 15:20 |
| dsantoro | what we did | 15:20 |
| dsantoro | was to distroy the container on GW1 and crete it on GW2 | 15:21 |
| ad_rien_ | ok | 15:21 |
| dsantoro | of course we need some persistent layer where to save the data collected form GW1 | 15:21 |
| ad_rien_ | ok | 15:21 |
| dsantoro | that layer in our demo was a DB | 15:21 |
| dsantoro | on the edge | 15:21 |
| ad_rien_ | so the point is that you need to ensure that data can be shared at any time and under any constraints between the different edge clouds. | 15:21 |
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| dsantoro | yeah that's the point | 15:22 |
| ad_rien_ | (if obviously the two IoT gateways are attached to distinct edge clouds) | 15:22 |
| dsantoro | microservices application could be distributed across GWs and EDGEs | 15:22 |
| ad_rien_ | Ok I get the point | 15:22 |
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| ad_rien_ | so here it is a bit tricky in the sense that you are at the level of the data plane | 15:23 |
| dsantoro | good | 15:23 |
| dsantoro | let me tell you another quick point | 15:23 |
| ad_rien_ | and you want to ensure that your wokloads can communicate or at least adapt to external events such as network disconnections | 15:23 |
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| ad_rien_ | am I right? | 15:23 |
| dsantoro | yes you are right | 15:23 |
| dsantoro | look this: in some cases we could need to store privacy information on the edge nodes | 15:24 |
| dsantoro | imaging a health center that do not want to share users sensible infos on the cploud | 15:24 |
| ad_rien_ | ok I put some notes in the pad thanks, please go on | 15:24 |
| dsantoro | so that the reason why we think is important having storage on the edge also | 15:25 |
| ad_rien_ | I agree | 15:25 |
| ad_rien_ | I added that line 152. | 15:25 |
| ad_rien_ | actually because swift is already based on a distributed model (i.e. a DHT-based blob system), we didn't put in the slides but you're right we should add it. | 15:26 |
| ad_rien_ | #action Identify impact not only at the level of the core-services but also at the level of the data plane. | 15:26 |
| ad_rien_ | ok anything else ? | 15:27 |
| dsantoro | not from my side | 15:27 |
| ad_rien_ | ok thanks | 15:27 |
| ad_rien_ | precious comments ;) | 15:27 |
| ad_rien_ | so getting back to the slides. Joe(Chaoyi) added a few comments. | 15:27 |
| ad_rien_ | It would be great if we can all do the same | 15:27 |
| ad_rien_ | and try to criticize the different approaches | 15:28 |
| ad_rien_ | in term of performance, HA, …. | 15:28 |
| ansmith | dsantoro: to clarify, is data collected from IoT gateway events/logs? | 15:28 |
| ansmith | or other data? | 15:28 |
| dsantoro | other data | 15:28 |
| dsantoro | we had a GW with a datareader container onboard | 15:29 |
| dsantoro | which collected temperature data from an attached sensor | 15:29 |
| ad_rien_ | dsantoro: do you have a link toward you paper, it would be good to have it in the minutes (I think it might interest people) | 15:30 |
| ad_rien_ | ? | 15:31 |
| dsantoro | sorry guys | 15:31 |
| ad_rien_ | #link http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/7830723/ | 15:32 |
| ad_rien_ | but I didn't find the pdf :( | 15:32 |
| ad_rien_ | (at least a preprinted version that we can share) | 15:32 |
| dsantoro | for sure I can share it by mail but I need to check this point of having it on a public link | 15:32 |
| dsantoro | I will add it on the etherpad after cheking ok ? | 15:32 |
| ad_rien_ | guys if you are interested by additional information on the envisioned use-cases at FBK, please contact dsantoro by mail | 15:32 |
| ad_rien_ | or give a look to the pad ;) | 15:33 |
| ad_rien_ | Thanks dsantoro | 15:33 |
| ad_rien_ | ok so let's move forward, | 15:33 |
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| ad_rien_ | so I didn't find time to polish the slide but as mentioned now I think we should add comments on the different approaches and clearly mention the pros/cons of each approach | 15:33 |
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| ad_rien_ | I will do but from my perspective/my understanding. It would be great if you guys, you can add comments like Joe did | 15:34 |
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| ad_rien_ | do you think you can give a try for the next meeting ? | 15:34 |
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| ad_rien_ | Follks from Orange also made a good work on that aspect BTW | 15:35 |
| jfpeltier | yes | 15:35 |
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| * ad_rien_ is looking for another link | 15:36 | |
| ad_rien_ | I think it should be that one | 15:37 |
| ad_rien_ | #link http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/7785190/ | 15:37 |
| jfpeltier | yes thanks | 15:38 |
| ad_rien_ | ok so action for the next meeting: | 15:38 |
| ad_rien_ | #action all: please add pros/cons comments on the deployment scenario slides by Feb, the 13 | 15:39 |
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| ad_rien_ | #action adrien: polish the slide before the next meeting (i.e. between Feb the 13th and the 15th) | 15:39 |
| ad_rien_ | ok | 15:39 |
| ad_rien_ | anything else on this topic? | 15:39 |
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| ad_rien_ | so let's switch to the next point | 15:40 |
| ad_rien_ | #topic Boston presentations | 15:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Boston presentations (Meeting topic: massively_distributed_clouds)" | 15:40 | |
| ad_rien_ | so first question, who plan to attend the Boston summit next May? | 15:40 |
| ad_rien_ | from Inria we should be two | 15:40 |
| ad_rien_ | who else? | 15:41 |
| jfpeltier | not going | 15:41 |
| ansmith | will attend | 15:41 |
| serverascode | I'll be there :) | 15:42 |
| ad_rien_ | jfpeltier: do you know whether mrohon or Abdelhdi will come? | 15:42 |
| ad_rien_ | ok | 15:42 |
| dsantoro | none of us will attend probably | 15:42 |
| ad_rien_ | serverascode | 15:42 |
| ad_rien_ | dsantoro: ok too | 15:42 |
| kgiusti | kgiusti: planning to attend | 15:42 |
| ad_rien_ | ok | 15:43 |
| ad_rien_ | thanks | 15:43 |
| jfpeltier | not sure yet for Abdelhadi, Mrohon maybe | 15:43 |
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| ad_rien_ | so I put remarks regarding official presentations. | 15:43 |
| ad_rien_ | I have nothing to add | 15:44 |
| ad_rien_ | in particular, maybe just that I'm waiting for the serverascode proposal because I'm convinced that we are addressing similar challenges and that both WGs are valuable. | 15:44 |
| ad_rien_ | So does anyone plan to submit another presentation? | 15:45 |
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| dsantoro | no from our side mainly because the short deadline for submission we are not able to drive a proposal on our use-cases/platform | 15:45 |
| dsantoro | but we are interested in contributing with few slides describing the use-cases, the platform or the requirements in the case you think is worth to mention about it on your Proposal 1. | 15:45 |
| ad_rien_ | ok | 15:46 |
| ad_rien_ | good to know that | 15:46 |
| ad_rien_ | #action keep FBK folks in the loop for the presentation in order to present their use-case in the introduction | 15:46 |
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| ad_rien_ | ok maybe a last point to discuss is | 15:46 |
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| ad_rien_ | What you would like to discuss during the massively distributed WG session (i.e. face to face meeting)? and whether it makes sense to provide a webconference solution for the ones that cannot make the trip to Boston. | 15:47 |
| ad_rien_ | I will open a pad so we can start to put items | 15:47 |
| ad_rien_ | #action Adrien create a pad for the face-to-face meeting in Boston (please double check that there is no overlapping with the NFV one) | 15:48 |
| ad_rien_ | serverascode: may I ask you how many session you plan to request for the NFV WG? | 15:48 |
| serverascode | I did put in a request for two consecutive, but I would be surprised to get it | 15:49 |
| ad_rien_ | ok | 15:49 |
| serverascode | I would imagine one 40 min session | 15:49 |
| ad_rien_ | good to know | 15:49 |
| ad_rien_ | ok if makes sense we can merge our session so we can have two consecutive sessions | 15:49 |
| ad_rien_ | let's see what will we get as preliminary agendas. | 15:50 |
| serverascode | that's a possibllty, though we tend to get a lot of people who aren't necessarily interested :) | 15:50 |
| serverascode | they just see NFV in the title | 15:50 |
| ad_rien_ | yes | 15:50 |
| ad_rien_ | like us ;) | 15:50 |
| ad_rien_ | they see Fog/Edge ;) | 15:50 |
| ad_rien_ | ok so let's move to the OpenDiscussion | 15:50 |
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| ad_rien_ | #topic open discussions | 15:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussions (Meeting topic: massively_distributed_clouds)" | 15:50 | |
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| ad_rien_ | jfpeltier: I do not know whether you see the comments ansmith and kgiusti put in the pad: maybe you want to say a few words or we can keep this item for the next meeting? | 15:51 |
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| ad_rien_ | (I would like to keep 3 minutes at least to discuss the last point: how can we attract more people). | 15:52 |
| jfpeltier | yes we can keep that for next one as we don't have clear cut results yet | 15:52 |
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| kgiusti | fyi: andy and I have thrown together some slides on different message bus deployment topologies: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1ghwinrArfoCw1qIsNGxWSrd8NTynYomThERGUpN4f0U/edit?usp=sharing | 15:52 |
| ad_rien_ | ok #action jfpeltier (Orange) will provide information regarding the AMQP stresser) | 15:52 |
| ad_rien_ | #link https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1ghwinrArfoCw1qIsNGxWSrd8NTynYomThERGUpN4f0U/edit?usp=sharing | 15:53 |
| jfpeltier | basically the AMQP flooding is issued by sending many messages to the clients on one-to-one queues | 15:53 |
| kgiusti | we can talk about this next meeting once folks have time to look it over. | 15:53 |
| jfpeltier | ok | 15:53 |
| ad_rien_ | kgiusti: ACL | 15:53 |
| ad_rien_ | ACK | 15:53 |
| ad_rien_ | I put it on the pad thanks | 15:53 |
| ad_rien_ | will definitely give a look | 15:53 |
| ad_rien_ | BTW guys, do you think we can find a way to deploy QPID with ansible ? | 15:54 |
| ad_rien_ | or any glue that can enable us to deploy it easily/in an automatic manner. | 15:54 |
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| kgiusti | jfpeltier: stressing the broker itself - would be interesting to see how the other more point to point (non-brokered) technologies handle that (zeromq, dispatch router) | 15:54 |
| ansmith | ansible is next up after we complete tripleo/puppet | 15:54 |
| ad_rien_ | May I ask you a milestone/deadline? | 15:55 |
| ad_rien_ | even if it is approximatie | 15:55 |
| ad_rien_ | s/approximatie/approximative. | 15:55 |
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| ansmith | during pike is goal, in meantime we can discuss manual configuration if that is an option | 15:55 |
| ad_rien_ | we can try it | 15:55 |
| ad_rien_ | but manual means having a permanent testbed | 15:56 |
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| ad_rien_ | we have a permanenent testbed but with more than 1000 users | 15:56 |
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| ad_rien_ | so we get leases/reservations | 15:56 |
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| ad_rien_ | it is preferable to have an automation mode. | 15:56 |
| ad_rien_ | Ok we can discuss that point later | 15:56 |
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| ad_rien_ | last question: | 15:56 |
| ansmith | understood, will provide update | 15:56 |
| ad_rien_ | did you get feedbacks from RED Hat Fog/Edge guys? | 15:57 |
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| ad_rien_ | It would be great to have them in our discussions: ansmith? | 15:57 |
| ad_rien_ | any news on that point. | 15:57 |
| ad_rien_ | ? | 15:57 |
| ansmith | we reached out to a number of folks who are interested in the wg | 15:57 |
| ansmith | I will invite them to next session | 15:57 |
| ad_rien_ | ok sounds good | 15:57 |
| ad_rien_ | especially that now we have FBK that is strongly supporting Fog/Edge use-cases | 15:58 |
| ad_rien_ | #info Fog/edge folks from redhat should join us next time | 15:58 |
| ad_rien_ | Ok nothing more from my side | 15:58 |
| ad_rien_ | Thanks for attending the meeting | 15:58 |
| ad_rien_ | we have one more minute if someone wants to add something? | 15:58 |
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| ad_rien_ | nothing ? | 15:58 |
| serverascode | nothing from me | 15:58 |
| ad_rien_ | Ok thanks. | 15:59 |
| ad_rien_ | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Feb 1 15:59:10 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/massively_distributed_clouds/2017/massively_distributed_clouds.2017-02-01-15.00.html | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/massively_distributed_clouds/2017/massively_distributed_clouds.2017-02-01-15.00.txt | 15:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/massively_distributed_clouds/2017/massively_distributed_clouds.2017-02-01-15.00.log.html | 15:59 |
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| smcginnis | #startmeeting Cinder | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Feb 1 16:00:10 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is smcginnis. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:00 |
| eharney | hi | 16:00 |
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| pots | o/ | 16:00 |
| dulek | o/ | 16:00 |
| smcginnis | ping dulek duncant eharney geguileo winston-d e0ne jungleboyj jgriffith thingee smcginnis hemna xyang1 tbarron scottda erlon rhedlind jbernard _alastor_ bluex karthikp_ patrickeast dongwenjuan JaniceLee cFouts Thelo vivekd adrianofr mtanino yuriy_n17 karlamrhein diablo_rojo jay.xu jgregor baumann rajinir wilson-l reduxio wanghao thrawn01 chris_morrell stevemar watanabe.isao,tommylikehu | 16:00 |
| smcginnis | mdovgal ildikov wxy viks ketonne | 16:00 |
| erlon | hey | 16:00 |
| hemna | yough | 16:00 |
| mdovgal | Hi! | 16:00 |
| xyang1 | hi | 16:00 |
| scottda | hi | 16:00 |
| * bswartz wanders into the room | 16:00 | |
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| patrickeast | Hey | 16:01 |
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| jungleboyj | o/ | 16:01 |
| smcginnis | #topic Announcements | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:01 | |
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| breitz | hi | 16:02 |
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| smcginnis | RC-1 is tomorrow. We should try to wrap up any important bugs today if at all possible. | 16:02 |
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| smcginnis | After RC-1 we will really need to limit what, if anything, we allow in. | 16:02 |
| smcginnis | Critical only, ideally. | 16:02 |
| tbarron | hi | 16:02 |
| smcginnis | I need to start reworking the focus etherpad to start prepping for Pike, so I won't link that here for now. | 16:03 |
| dulek | smcginnis: master opens for Pike once RC-1 is tagged, right? | 16:03 |
| smcginnis | dulek: Correct. I need to branch stable/ocata when we tag RC-1. So once that is done, that means master will now be Pike. | 16:03 |
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| smcginnis | So just hold off on anything until you see that stable/ocata is actually created. ;) | 16:04 |
| Swanson | Hi | 16:04 |
| smcginnis | #link http://www.openstack.org/ptg PTG info and registration | 16:04 |
| e0ne | рш | 16:04 |
| e0ne | hi | 16:04 |
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| smcginnis | I think it was mentioned there are only 18 spots left for the PTG as of this morning. | 16:05 |
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| smcginnis | If you've been waiting on that, better get moving. | 16:05 |
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| smcginnis | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ATL-cinder-ptg-planning PTG topic planning | 16:05 |
| * dulek finally got his flight tickets for PTG. Wheee! :) | 16:05 | |
| smcginnis | Add any ideas to scottda's list of topics. ^^ | 16:06 |
| smcginnis | dulek: Awesome! | 16:06 |
| scottda | ha | 16:06 |
| smcginnis | :) | 16:06 |
| smcginnis | I'll try to start arranging proposed topics into a logical-ish order soon so we can have a list to work through at the PTG. | 16:06 |
| smcginnis | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/boston-2017/call-for-presentations/ Summit CFP | 16:07 |
| smcginnis | Less than a week left to submit talk proposals for the Summit. | 16:07 |
| smcginnis | I guess one final announcement item - PTL nomination period closed and I was the only one. So y'all stuck with me again. :) | 16:09 |
| scottda | Congratulations, Great Leader! | 16:09 |
| smcginnis | Hah, thanks. | 16:09 |
| smcginnis | #topic Consistent Versioned Endpoints in the Service Catalog | 16:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Consistent Versioned Endpoints in the Service Catalog (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:09 | |
| smcginnis | scottda: OK, all yours. | 16:09 |
| scottda | So, we'll be talking about this Mon or tues at the PTG | 16:10 |
| scottda | Ops have complained about the service catalog being inconsistent... | 16:10 |
| scottda | and cinder is a good example. | 16:10 |
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| scottda | I.e. that we have 'volume', 'volumev2', 'volumev3' | 16:10 |
| scottda | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-January/110043.html | 16:10 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis, Thanks for continuing to be our fearless leader! | 16:10 |
| scottda | I'm not sure anything can be done to change things. That might break a lot of code and scripts. | 16:11 |
| scottda | But we'll be talking about it. So either attend, or let me know opinions so I can represent them. | 16:11 |
| smcginnis | scottda: Would be great if we could just have 'volume' and figure out from there where to go. | 16:11 |
| scottda | smcginnis: +10000 | 16:12 |
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| ildikov | smcginnis: +1 | 16:12 |
| scottda | Yes, volume could be the naked endpoint: | 16:12 |
| scottda | http://<url>:<port> | 16:12 |
| scottda | and you get version info from there. | 16:12 |
| e0ne | do we have working version discovery in cinderclient? | 16:12 |
| scottda | And I think that ops and API WG folks like that idea. | 16:12 |
| erlon | smcginnis: +1 | 16:12 |
| scottda | e0ne: yes | 16:12 |
| e0ne | scottda: cool | 16:13 |
| scottda | both CLI and a static method that takes a URL and no auth | 16:13 |
| scottda | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/420119 | 16:13 |
| scottda | But, I'm sure there will be debate about how to change things, deprecation, etc. | 16:13 |
| scottda | Please attend, or voice strong opinions somehow. | 16:13 |
| scottda | Otherwise, they'll get my opinion. | 16:14 |
| scottda | That's it for this topic. | 16:14 |
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| smcginnis | scottda: OK, thanks! | 16:14 |
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| smcginnis | I think if we can work through migration issues, it would get us in a better place. | 16:15 |
| bswartz | scottda: I'll be there and full of opinions | 16:15 |
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| scottda | bswartz: Good to hear. Maybe after the meeting we can chat. | 16:15 |
| smcginnis | I'd love to revisit removing of v1 at some point too. But that's another big discussion for another time. | 16:15 |
| smcginnis | #topic Storing cinder version info and client caching in nova | 16:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Storing cinder version info and client caching in nova (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:16 | |
| scottda | smcginnis: Yes, but we'll likley touch on that.. | 16:16 |
| scottda | OK, next topic... | 16:16 |
| scottda | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/420201/ | 16:16 |
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| scottda | I've a POC for how Nova can get cinder server (and client) info , and use for new APIs for attach/detach | 16:16 |
| scottda | One question is: Do we store that info, or get it dynamically for each call to the cinderclient? | 16:17 |
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| scottda | Another question is: Do we really need to instantiate a client for each call from nova -> cinder? | 16:17 |
| scottda | We currently do this 4 times for a volume attach. | 16:17 |
| hemna | scottda, where would the client even store it ? | 16:17 |
| smcginnis | scottda: Seems inefficient. | 16:17 |
| scottda | hemna: See my patch. It's clunky, but uses a Global | 16:18 |
| scottda | stored in nova/cinder.py, not on the client | 16:18 |
| hemna | between invocations? | 16:18 |
| scottda | nova gets the version info, and puts it into a global | 16:18 |
| hemna | oh. ew ok. | 16:18 |
| scottda | ONce that is set, Nova can use that in manager.py code | 16:18 |
| jungleboyj | scottda, Wow, 4 times seems excessive. | 16:18 |
| smcginnis | Issue there would be what if the service gets upgraded. So Nova would have to get restarted to recognize Cinder changed. | 16:18 |
| scottda | Other choice is to query the cinder server for each nova call that goes through cinderclient to cinder... | 16:18 |
| bswartz | instantiating a object should be trivially cheap though -- what is the expensive part? | 16:19 |
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| scottda | smcginnis: Yes, that's the issue. But how big of an issue is it? | 16:19 |
| scottda | bswartz: Expensive would be pinging cinder server each call to get version info | 16:19 |
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| bswartz | why would we do that? | 16:19 |
| bswartz | just send the API request with the highest version you know... | 16:19 |
| scottda | bswartz: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/420201/7/nova/compute/manager.py | 16:20 |
| dulek | If the Cinder microversion was reported in the service catalog, it would be better - we're calling Keystone anyway. | 16:20 |
| scottda | because we've new APIs for nova to use with cinder for volume attach... | 16:20 |
| bswartz | this is the whole point I was trying to make about version APIs | 16:20 |
| scottda | But nova code won't know at run time which version of cinder exists. | 16:20 |
| bswartz | you never query the server for versions until after something has failed | 16:20 |
| bswartz | you send the request, expect success, and deal with failure by negotiating down | 16:20 |
| scottda | bswartz: maybe | 16:21 |
| scottda | not sure Nova wants to do it that way | 16:21 |
| bswartz | as an optimization, you cache the server version after negotiating down to avoid repeat failures | 16:21 |
| dulek | Maybe it should be in nova.conf? It's admin who knows what Cinder version is in the deployment. | 16:21 |
| e0ne | bswartz: +1 on such solution | 16:21 |
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| bswartz | but caching the version is dangerous because the server could upgrade without telling you | 16:21 |
| smcginnis | Kind of more "pythonic" to try and fail, then failback to the old way I guess. | 16:21 |
| scottda | bswartz: if you're going to cache the server version, why not just get it upon first query and use it? | 16:22 |
| bswartz | scottda: because it's slow as hell | 16:22 |
| scottda | I'm not personally married to any particular solution... | 16:22 |
| bswartz | and the negotiate down case should be rare | 16:22 |
| scottda | bswartz: Not sure it's any more round trips that the try- fail-try again | 16:22 |
| bswartz | you always want the common case to be fast and the rare case to be slow | 16:22 |
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| bswartz | it's same in the fail case but more round trips in the happy case | 16:23 |
| scottda | bswartz: Yeah, it's maybe the best. Part of this conversation is to have another conversation about the same subject with Nova | 16:23 |
| bswartz | and in this specific case you're worried about it happening 4 times, which is easily avoidable | 16:23 |
| e0ne | FYI, cinder's patch "Make Nova API version configurable" https://review.openstack.org/#/c/302177/ | 16:23 |
| scottda | Since they will ultimately decide what goes in their code. | 16:23 |
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| scottda | OK, well, I'm wanting to solicit ideas.. We'll likely discuss at the next nova-cinder api meeting... | 16:24 |
| bswartz | I'm worried that microversions are getting a bad name because people are deciding use to them wrong | 16:25 |
| scottda | tomorrow, Thurs, at 1700 UTC | 16:25 |
| scottda | bswartz: Well, I think they have a bad name. And it's a matter of education and information. | 16:25 |
| smcginnis | +1 | 16:25 |
| bswartz | indeed | 16:25 |
| scottda | If you just try..except for everything, why do you need microversions? | 16:25 |
| bswartz | I can only educate and inform so much | 16:25 |
| scottda | just see if the feature exists, and then fall back to the older way. | 16:26 |
| smcginnis | I think in this case though, it's not limited to just one call and failing back. It kind of dictates the whole workflow being done. | 16:26 |
| scottda | smcginnis: That's right. There will be a lot of code in Nova for just attach and detach... | 16:26 |
| smcginnis | So there probably should be some caching or something to know for the whole "transaction". | 16:26 |
| scottda | And we might be adding more in the future for special cases like migration, shelve offload, etc. | 16:26 |
| scottda | OK, well, I want to solicit opinions, and welcome people to join in. | 16:27 |
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| scottda | ildikov: Did I get the meeting time right for nova-cinder api talk? | 16:27 |
| smcginnis | ildikov: Thursday's, same time, right? | 16:28 |
| bswartz | what channel is that meeting | 16:28 |
| ildikov | scottda: smcginnis: yes, Thursdays, 1700UTC, #openstack-meeting-cp | 16:28 |
| smcginnis | ildikov: Thanks! | 16:28 |
| scottda | cool. That's it for me. | 16:28 |
| smcginnis | scottda: Thanks again. | 16:29 |
| ildikov | scottda: smcginnis: it's also registered now on eavesdrop, so it's official :) | 16:29 |
| scottda | I'll shut up now | 16:29 |
| jungleboyj | Oooh! | 16:29 |
| smcginnis | ildikov: Ooh, nice. | 16:29 |
| smcginnis | scottda: Hah | 16:29 |
| smcginnis | #topic Open Discussion | 16:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:29 | |
| smcginnis | THat was it on the agenda. Anything else today? | 16:29 |
| jungleboyj | ildikov, Nice. Now the issues will get resolved then, right? ;-) | 16:29 |
| ildikov | scottda: smcginnis: :) | 16:29 |
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| ildikov | jungleboyj: what issues? ;) | 16:29 |
| smcginnis | Or we can get 30 minutes to finalize bug fixes before the RC. :) | 16:29 |
| hemna | smcginnis, I wanted to raise the question of marking drivers unsupported. | 16:30 |
| jungleboyj | ildikov, Indeed. ;-) | 16:30 |
| smcginnis | hemna: Oh, good topic I guess. Especially given the timing. | 16:30 |
| hemna | I'm re-running the latest report right now | 16:30 |
| jungleboyj | And here goes the next 30 minutes. | 16:30 |
| hemna | I've spent some time reworking the lastcomment.py tool to output some more information that gives us a better idea of the jobs for each CI | 16:31 |
| smcginnis | Last one hemna ran until he gets current results: http://paste.openstack.org/show/597113/ | 16:31 |
| hemna | http://paste.openstack.org/show/597227/ | 16:31 |
| hemna | that one just finished | 16:31 |
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| hemna | it details every job in the CI and if the success rate is <=60% it shows the last success run for the job as well | 16:32 |
| hemna | do we care at this point to mark failing drivers as unsupported? | 16:32 |
| hemna | some are low% | 16:32 |
| smcginnis | hemna: I think with timing I would rather mark them unsupported as soon as Pike opens up. | 16:32 |
| hemna | 36% | 16:33 |
| hemna | some are 0% | 16:33 |
| smcginnis | Though it can be argued we are going out with drivers supported that do not meet CI requirements at this point. :{ | 16:33 |
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| hemna | yah, that's why I wanted to raise that now | 16:33 |
| hemna | clearly some CI's are not working | 16:33 |
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| hemna | *crickets* | 16:34 |
| xyang2 | hemna: whatever we decide, I think we should send out an email to the mailing list, describe what exactly is the criteria for marking a driver unsupported | 16:34 |
| smcginnis | I'm not as concerned about passing percentage (at least at this point) as the ones that haven't even reported for weeks. | 16:34 |
| hemna | xyang2 we've done that every time we've met | 16:34 |
| xyang2 | hemna: give driver maintainers the tools you used so they can run themselves | 16:35 |
| smcginnis | xyang2: We have and we've published it on our wiki. I think we said two weeks? | 16:35 |
| hemna | I'm kinda of the mindset that we have been the nice guy for a while now to get people used to keeping the CI up | 16:35 |
| xyang2 | smcginnis: right , two weeks | 16:35 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis, I think we should talk about what the acceptable percentage is at the PTG and clearly state that before doing anything right now. | 16:35 |
| hemna | we either care about the CI failing and use the unsupported flag or...not | 16:35 |
| xyang2 | smcginnis, hemna: I don't remember we published something based on percentage | 16:35 |
| smcginnis | jungleboyj: Yes, before we base anything on percentage we should discuss and publish it. | 16:36 |
| hemna | we said 50% passing in a 2 week period at the last mid cycle | 16:36 |
| jungleboyj | Obviously if it isn't running that means it is unsupported. | 16:36 |
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| jungleboyj | hemna, Did we announce that? | 16:36 |
| xyang2 | hemna: put that on wiki then | 16:36 |
| hemna | yup, I'm sure smcginnis did | 16:36 |
| xyang2 | hemna: it was not there when I checked last time | 16:36 |
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| hemna | anyway, we have many CI's far less than 50% now | 16:37 |
| xyang2 | hemna, smcginnis: I don't remember we agreed on a exact percentage before | 16:37 |
| scottda | Seems we need to talk about a way to capture agreements from meetups...that's a topic for the PTG. | 16:37 |
| smcginnis | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/tested-3rdParty-drivers#Non-Compliance_Policy | 16:37 |
| smcginnis | Not percentage. Just time based. | 16:38 |
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| jungleboyj | Doh. | 16:38 |
| hemna | ok it's not published, but I do remember smcginnis saying 50% in 2 weeks at the mid cycle | 16:38 |
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| wiggin15 | Goodhart's law: "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure." | 16:38 |
| hemna | we have some that are 4%, 14% | 16:39 |
| smcginnis | We do have the line "Other issues are found but failed to be addressed in a timely manner" | 16:39 |
| hemna | I don't consider those as working | 16:39 |
| smcginnis | I think 4% passing is an "other issue". | 16:39 |
| smcginnis | The problem now, is if we mark them unsupported today, that gives zero time for issues to be addressed. | 16:39 |
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| smcginnis | I don't really want to cause issues. I just want a strong incentive to keep CI running. | 16:40 |
| hemna | that's what I thought the unsupported flag was | 16:40 |
| hemna | instead of removing them from tree | 16:40 |
| e0ne | hemna: +1 | 16:40 |
| hemna | here is a good example | 16:40 |
| xyang2 | too late for Ocata, already passed O-3, given that we didn't publish the percentage | 16:40 |
| hemna | 11% success rate | 16:40 |
| hemna | last success was 42 days ago | 16:41 |
| smcginnis | Yeah, but it does have a negative impact on end users. | 16:41 |
| hemna | and yet we are worried about upsetting them? | 16:41 |
| hemna | I don't get it | 16:41 |
| smcginnis | More concerned about the folks stuck using their gear. | 16:41 |
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| hemna | so | 16:42 |
| smcginnis | Let's talk about this at the PTG. I think we need to definitely decide on a passing percentage and timeframes for things. | 16:42 |
| hemna | can we backport a bug fix to remove the unsupported flag? | 16:42 |
| Swanson | Better they know they aren't being supported now? | 16:42 |
| bswartz | just because cinder team declares a driver unsupported doesn't mean that an end user can't obtain support from their distro for that driver | 16:42 |
| bswartz | that's between them and the distro | 16:42 |
| Swanson | bswartz +1 | 16:42 |
| smcginnis | bswartz: Right. | 16:42 |
| hemna | bswartz, +1 | 16:42 |
| smcginnis | OK, what do folks think. Should we flag these as unsupported now? | 16:42 |
| xyang2 | I disagree | 16:43 |
| scottda | Seems like there's not much warning. | 16:43 |
| bswartz | I personally thing the time periods are too short | 16:43 |
| patrickeast | Yea... Let's wait | 16:43 |
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| bswartz | s/thing/think/ | 16:43 |
| jungleboyj | Well, for future discussion I think we need to plan at what point we are going to do the last check for adding the unsupported flag. | 16:43 |
| xyang2 | If on the wiki, it clearly says there's a percentage, then that is different | 16:43 |
| Swanson | Ocata probably isn't the release to do this with. | 16:43 |
| Swanson | Short cycle and all. | 16:43 |
| smcginnis | jungleboyj: +1 | 16:43 |
| bswartz | but if we agreed to them we should change the agreement or enforce it | 16:43 |
| xyang2 | this criteria is not clearly published | 16:43 |
| jungleboyj | That can go with the percentage discussion. | 16:43 |
| hemna | fwiw every time we discuss this everyone waffles on it. | 16:43 |
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| hemna | this was the entire point of creating the unsupported flag vs. removal. | 16:44 |
| Swanson | hemna, Everyone becomes terrified and thinks back to the last time their CI broke for a month. | 16:44 |
| hemna | now we will ship drivers that haven't had a working CI in 42+ days. | 16:44 |
| bswartz | I also think percentages are the wrong measure | 16:44 |
| jungleboyj | hemna, But we have successfully moved forward over time. | 16:44 |
| smcginnis | hemna: We do have a few marked unsupported that I plan on removing in Pike. I'm just concerned about the timing right now. | 16:44 |
| bswartz | but I agree with hemna, we have to enforce what we have, or decide to change the rules | 16:44 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis, ++ Timing ... | 16:44 |
| xyang2 | yes we should enforce the rule, but the rule did not specify a percentage | 16:45 |
| smcginnis | And out of the handful that we marked unsupported, at least half came back and didn't realize things were failing and fixed it. But it took a few weeks for that to happen. | 16:45 |
| scottda | But before hemna 's latest scripts, did we have a good way of getting data on CIs running? | 16:45 |
| xyang2 | so it is not a written rule | 16:45 |
| hemna | I'd argue that the timing is perfect for it because the CI's are broken | 16:45 |
| e0ne | bswartz. hemna: +1 | 16:45 |
| scottda | That needs to be consistent and reliable | 16:45 |
| hemna | and that's the point of showing that they are unsupported. | 16:45 |
| bswartz | making rules and ignoring them is just bad | 16:45 |
| Swanson | Of course if a CI is failing at the point we are releasing a product doesn't that generally mean it doesn't work? | 16:45 |
| hemna | and that they haven't been around working on it, haven't been around telling us that the CI is broken because of X | 16:45 |
| hemna | and not participating. | 16:45 |
| xyang2 | bswartz: there is rule written in wiki currently but that rule does not say percentage | 16:46 |
| bswartz | xyang2: +1 | 16:46 |
| xyang2 | I go by what says on wiki | 16:46 |
| hemna | yah it doesn't say it | 16:46 |
| hemna | but do you think we should ship a driver that hasn't had a working CI result in 42 days? | 16:46 |
| Swanson | hemna +1 | 16:46 |
| e0ne | hemna: +1 | 16:46 |
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| hemna | or a CI that has a 30% success rate in the same time period? | 16:46 |
| smcginnis | I think we keep getting better at our CI policy. Now that we have a good tool to get the data we need, I think at the PTG we can iterate again and make our policy more clear and be in a better position to enforce it. | 16:47 |
| hemna | if everyone is ok with shipping drivers marked as supported when they are broken, that's cool. | 16:47 |
| bswartz | we ship it, but give it a red mark of shame -- that's the point of "unsupported" right? | 16:47 |
| jungleboyj | The incremental improvement has been the key. | 16:47 |
| hemna | bswartz, yes | 16:47 |
| Swanson | bswartz, +1 | 16:47 |
| * smcginnis looks through the latest output again... | 16:47 | |
| smcginnis | hemna: Do you know the list of which ones would be affected if we did it now? | 16:48 |
| Swanson | Does it matter who? | 16:48 |
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| hemna | I'd have to call them out by looking at the results | 16:48 |
| hemna | I didn't want to do that here. | 16:48 |
| smcginnis | Just getting an idea of how many are impacted. | 16:48 |
| bswartz | Swanson: +1 | 16:48 |
| * jungleboyj pictures smcginnis pulling out his red marker. | 16:48 | |
| hemna | http://paste.openstack.org/show/597227/ | 16:48 |
| xyang2 | are there any driver not covered by this output? | 16:48 |
| smcginnis | Blockbridge has been 63 days. That should probably get flagged. | 16:48 |
| hemna | the data is there. | 16:49 |
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| hemna | xyang2 http://paste.openstack.org/show/597233/ | 16:49 |
| hemna | thats the list of CI's I used to run the report | 16:49 |
| hemna | I think some of them are dead now | 16:50 |
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| Swanson | How about we set the bar low for ocata and then wiki up a higher bar for pike? | 16:50 |
| hemna | Swanson, +1 | 16:50 |
| smcginnis | Swanson: That's kind of what I was thinking. | 16:50 |
| pots | Swanson +1 | 16:50 |
| scottda | Swanson: +1 | 16:50 |
| xyang2 | hemna: that list might have missed some drivers | 16:50 |
| bswartz | hemna: nice job computing results on a per-jenkins-job basis | 16:50 |
| erlon | Swanson: +1 | 16:50 |
| xyang2 | Swanson: +1 | 16:50 |
| hemna | can we backport a bug fix to remove the flag after O ships? | 16:50 |
| smcginnis | But a few of these are pretty bad, so I would be open to flagging a couple of these that are really bad. Two months is a bit extreme. | 16:50 |
| hemna | smcginnis, that's why I wanted to raise this. some are really bad. | 16:51 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis, What about the question of backporting removal of the flag? | 16:51 |
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| smcginnis | hemna: To be fair, some of these are already flagged, so the list isn't really that big. | 16:52 |
| erlon | jungleboyj: that seems a bad move IMO | 16:52 |
| hemna | cool | 16:52 |
| smcginnis | Or at least not as big as I originally thought. | 16:52 |
| Swanson | Or you could just mark them all unsupported and then, if people contact you, take it on a case by case basis. 2 months isn't extreme for someone to get hold of you. | 16:52 |
| hemna | that's a good thing :) | 16:52 |
| dulek | jungleboyj: I would be fine if that's before the release. After the release that's a bad practice. | 16:52 |
| jungleboyj | erlon, That was my thought too, just curious what people though. | 16:53 |
| smcginnis | jungleboyj: Yeah, I think I'd want to leave that to folks like RH and Mirantis to decide to "unmark" them after the release. | 16:53 |
| dulek | jungleboyj: Distros would have different drivers supported depending on minor version of stable release they're based on. | 16:53 |
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| jungleboyj | dulek, Ew, that sounds messy. | 16:54 |
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| smcginnis | Just based on the discussion here, I would feel better if we don't do anything right now and improve our policy at the PTG. | 16:55 |
| erlon | I would vote for flagging the drivers that are really bellow the bar and set tight bars in the next release | 16:55 |
| erlon | but once flagged, is flagled | 16:55 |
| hemna | so 30%? | 16:55 |
| hemna | or less? | 16:55 |
| smcginnis | erlon: I'll filter through this list and see. | 16:55 |
| hemna | smcginnis, | 16:55 |
| hemna | cool | 16:55 |
| smcginnis | No percentage at this point, just time since last reporting success. | 16:55 |
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| erlon | hemna: jenkins -15%? | 16:56 |
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| jungleboyj | smcginnis, I think that is safest for now. | 16:56 |
| hemna | erlon, that's an interesting but valid measure I'd say | 16:56 |
| smcginnis | That's it, I'm kicking Jenkins out. :D | 16:56 |
| hemna | :) | 16:56 |
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| erlon | haha | 16:56 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 16:57 |
| smcginnis | Hitachi is consolidated under one CI now, right? | 16:57 |
| hemna | the interesting thing is that some of the jobs in CIs are mostly good, but 1, and it causes the overall % to drop | 16:57 |
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| erlon | smcginnis: we have 2 accounts 1 for HNAS and another for VSP/HBSD | 16:57 |
| smcginnis | erlon: OK. Is the third party wiki page up to date? | 16:57 |
| erlon | smcginnis: I believe yes, have to double check | 16:58 |
| smcginnis | erlon: OK, thanks. | 16:58 |
| smcginnis | 2 minutes. Anything else? | 16:58 |
| Swanson | smcginnis WEAK ON CI! SAD! SOGGY! | 16:58 |
| pots | smcginnis remember that there's a CI that was marked unsupported inadvertently--can we fix that today? | 16:58 |
| smcginnis | Swanson: :) | 16:59 |
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| smcginnis | pots: What? | 16:59 |
| pots | the hpmsa driver inherited the dothill driver's unsupported flag, but the hpmsa CI is running fine | 16:59 |
| smcginnis | pots: I thought you or someone was going to submit a patch to unflag that one? | 17:00 |
| jungleboyj | Swanson, And he is our PTL again. What have we done? | 17:00 |
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| smcginnis | jungleboyj: Hah! | 17:00 |
| smcginnis | Times up, let's continue in #openstack-cinder. | 17:00 |
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| smcginnis | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Feb 1 17:00:37 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2017/cinder.2017-02-01-16.00.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2017/cinder.2017-02-01-16.00.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2017/cinder.2017-02-01-16.00.log.html | 17:00 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis, Thanks! | 17:00 |
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| bh526r | #startmeeting gluon | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Feb 1 18:01:06 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bh526r. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gluon)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'gluon' | 18:01 |
| bh526r | #topic Roll Call | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: gluon)" | 18:01 | |
| bh526r | #info Bin Hu | 18:01 |
| krenczewski | #info Kamil Renczewski | 18:01 |
| bh526r | Hi guys | 18:01 |
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| krenczewski | Hello | 18:01 |
| pcarver | #info Paul Carver | 18:01 |
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| bh526r | #topic Admin Update | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Admin Update (Meeting topic: gluon)" | 18:01 | |
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| bh526r | #info Our next F2F is Monday Feb 6 and Tuesday Feb 7. The logistics information is: | 18:02 |
| bh526r | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Gluon/Logistics-2017020607 | 18:02 |
| bh526r | #info Tentative agenda is: | 18:02 |
| bh526r | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Gluon/Agenda-2017020607 | 18:03 |
| bh526r | #info Hope to see many of you there | 18:03 |
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| bh526r | #topic Gluon Tasks | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Gluon Tasks (Meeting topic: gluon)" | 18:03 | |
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| jinli | Hi all | 18:03 |
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| jinli | #info JinLi | 18:03 |
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| bh526r | #info The primary goal is to review the status of task completion. | 18:04 |
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| bh526r | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Gluon/Tasks-Ocata | 18:04 |
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| bh526r | #info and decide/close actions | 18:05 |
| bh526r | #topic Status Update | 18:05 |
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| bh526r | #info Synchronization Issues: (1) Between MySQL and etcd; (2) Bind operation with SDN controllers | 18:06 |
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| bh526r | #info We need to see how far we go when Ian attends the meeting next week | 18:06 |
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| bh526r | #info 2. OpenContrail's Mechanism Driver | 18:07 |
| bh526r | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/402071/ | 18:07 |
| bh526r | Kamil, any update? | 18:07 |
| krenczewski | I am still having some issues with my test environment | 18:07 |
| krenczewski | It turns out that my first config was wrong | 18:08 |
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| bh526r | I see, hope that the issues will be addressed soon | 18:08 |
| krenczewski | Szilard helped me with some network issues | 18:08 |
| bh526r | #info Kamil is continuing on setting up test environment | 18:08 |
| krenczewski | I think I am now close to finish this | 18:09 |
| bh526r | Great that he helped | 18:09 |
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| bh526r | Excellent, thank you Kamil | 18:09 |
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| krenczewski | I'll let you know when I fix those | 18:09 |
| bh526r | Sounds good | 18:09 |
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| bh526r | #info 3. Configuration files to replace hardcoded constants | 18:10 |
| bh526r | #info we need to look through all code, and find those hardcoded constants first, and then put them into config files | 18:10 |
| bh526r | #info 4. Testing | 18:11 |
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| bh526r | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/420165/ | 18:11 |
| bh526r | #info Darla re-tested the test code after we merged new code of new API model. | 18:12 |
| bh526r | #info So this was approved and merged on Jan 27 | 18:12 |
| bh526r | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/419210/ | 18:12 |
| bh526r | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/422338/ | 18:12 |
| bh526r | Jin, did you have a chance to re-test those 2 test code based on most recent repo that merged new API code? | 18:13 |
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| jinli | I will need make some changes to these two | 18:13 |
| jinli | will get it done by end and tomorrow and send you email to notify the change | 18:13 |
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| bh526r | Great, and thank you Jin | 18:14 |
| bh526r | #info Jin will make some changes to those 2 test patches in order to support new API model | 18:14 |
| bh526r | #info 5. Devstack Integration | 18:15 |
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| bh526r | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/404069/ | 18:15 |
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| bh526r | #info We will see how far it goes at the f2f next week | 18:15 |
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| bh526r | #info 6. Use of “etcd” approved by infrastructure team | 18:16 |
| bh526r | #info I (or Ian) will work with infrastructure team. But low priority for Ocata because of "unofficial" nature | 18:17 |
| bh526r | #info 7. Fuel Plugin | 18:17 |
| bh526r | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/417876/ | 18:17 |
| bh526r | #info Good progress. Szilard submitted patch 8 this morning. | 18:18 |
| bh526r | #info All are encouraged to review and comment | 18:18 |
| bh526r | #info 8. Nova enhancement and related Neutron work | 18:18 |
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| bh526r | #info this is another goal of F2F next week so as to lock down all details and Sukhdev will represent Gluon to work with Nova and Neutron in PTG in Atlanta | 18:19 |
| bh526r | #info 9. Misc | 18:20 |
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| bh526r | #info Tom and Kamal have done great job in new API model, and RBAC. We also need to see if any house cleaning work needed for those 2 features | 18:20 |
| bh526r | #info And I am working on user guide of how to develop Proton YAML | 18:21 |
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| bh526r | That's all from my side | 18:21 |
| bh526r | any other update or issue from your side? | 18:22 |
| pcarver | I have a design question | 18:22 |
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| bh526r | sure | 18:22 |
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| pcarver | does a port have to be owned by a single SDN controller? | 18:23 |
| bh526r | Port is bound to one backend at one time | 18:23 |
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| bh526r | So at any moment, a port is owned by one SDN controller | 18:24 |
| pcarver | So is something like Neutron's hierarchical port binding impossible? | 18:24 |
| bh526r | But a port can be re-bound to another SDN controller at another time | 18:24 |
| pcarver | I'm thinking of an SR-IOV use case where there may be different controllers managing the server side and switch side configuration | 18:24 |
| pcarver | ML2 handles this by dispatching the port events to multiple drivers simultaneously | 18:25 |
| bh526r | That is the service binding model, the hierarchy described in Georg's service binding mode patch and Tom's API spec patch | 18:25 |
| bh526r | what does this "multiple drivers simultaneously" exactly mean? | 18:26 |
| bh526r | A port is owned by multiple drivers simultaneously? | 18:27 |
| pcarver | yes, for example the OvS driver and a physical switch driver is an example that has been done with Neutron | 18:27 |
| bh526r | Then when VM sends the traffic to the port, will all of the drivers also handle the traffic simultaneously? | 18:27 |
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| pcarver | the drivers don't handle traffic but the things they configure do | 18:28 |
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| pcarver | So if the OvS driver configured OvS and the Arista driver configured an Arista switch then the traffic would pass through both OvS and the Arista switch. | 18:29 |
| bh526r | In above example, will OVS driver and physical switch driver then be managed by one SDN controller? | 18:29 |
| pcarver | The particular use case I'm thinking of is when we need to configure an SR-IOV virtual function (VF) and a physical switch. | 18:29 |
| pcarver | Not in the Neutron hierarchical port binding case. The drivers are the controllers. | 18:30 |
| bh526r | Can SR-IOV VF and physical switch be handled by SDN Controller simultaneously? | 18:30 |
| pcarver | hypothetically they could, but the the software we're currently using can't | 18:31 |
| bh526r | If yes, then the port is bound to one SDN controller which handles those drivers including SR-IOV VF and a physical switch | 18:31 |
| pcarver | We're currently using one controller that only manages VFs and a different controller that only manages physical switches | 18:31 |
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| bh526r | I see. Refer to the service binding model patch: | 18:34 |
| bh526r | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/400012/ | 18:34 |
| bh526r | In the first diagram, a port can have multiple interfaces. An interface can have multiple services | 18:35 |
| pcarver | I've read that, but it doesn't appear to give enough info to bind to multiple controllers | 18:35 |
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| bh526r | So we need to define 2 service interfaces that subordinates of the port, and bind each service interface to one SDN controller respectively | 18:40 |
| bh526r | Let me work offline to give an exemplary model description for you | 18:41 |
| pcarver | ok | 18:41 |
| bh526r | Very good question | 18:41 |
| bh526r | Any other question? | 18:41 |
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| bh526r | If no other question, I will work offline with Paul for this model of multiple service interfaces | 18:43 |
| bh526r | And we can adjourn the meeting, and give back everyone 17 minutes | 18:43 |
| bh526r | #info Meeting Adjourned | 18:43 |
| bh526r | Thank you everyone, and bye all | 18:43 |
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| bh526r | #endmeeting | 18:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:44 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Feb 1 18:44:00 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:44 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gluon/2017/gluon.2017-02-01-18.01.html | 18:44 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gluon/2017/gluon.2017-02-01-18.01.txt | 18:44 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gluon/2017/gluon.2017-02-01-18.01.log.html | 18:44 |
| krenczewski | Bye | 18:44 |
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| jinli | bye | 18:45 |
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| zara_the_lemur__ | anybody around for the storyboard meeting? | 19:00 |
| SotK | I am here! | 19:01 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | \o/ | 19:01 |
| SotK | #startmeeting storyboard | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Feb 1 19:01:17 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SotK. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storyboard' | 19:01 |
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| SotK | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/StoryBoard Agenda | 19:01 |
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| SotK | #topic Announcements | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 19:02 | |
| SotK | I don't think we have any | 19:02 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | nope! | 19:02 |
| SotK | #topic Urgent Items | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Urgent Items (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 19:02 | |
| SotK | similar | 19:02 |
| SotK | #topic In Progress Work | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "In Progress Work (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 19:02 | |
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| zara_the_lemur__ | I've spent the last couple of days investigating support for other databases | 19:03 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | there are lots of logs | 19:03 |
| SotK | exciting! | 19:03 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | :) | 19:03 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | my brain is fried so I don't have much to add; logs are extensive | 19:04 |
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| SotK | :) | 19:04 |
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| SotK | tl;dr: we don't support them yet | 19:04 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | I'm learning how to postgresql for the first time | 19:04 |
| SotK | right? | 19:04 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | yeah | 19:04 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | I think other-db-support was dropped in 2014 | 19:05 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | so it's an exciting adventure | 19:05 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | and if people are looking for a sitcom, I would recommend my working day in #storyboard | 19:05 |
| SotK | \o/ | 19:05 |
| SotK | heh | 19:05 |
| SotK | meanwhile I managed to have even less time than I hoped to work on the migration scripts | 19:05 |
| diablo_rojo | Hello | 19:05 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | (I also spotted a patch from tristanC about supporting mariaDB so maybe that's going better than postgres) | 19:06 |
| SotK | and somehow managed to discover that what I thought was a small bug is actually a big bad "some people can't login" bug | 19:06 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | wunderbar | 19:06 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | good that you discovered it, though | 19:06 |
| diablo_rojo | Indeed, good that you found it | 19:07 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | (Hello, diablo_rojo!) | 19:07 |
| SotK | welcome diablo_rojo | 19:07 |
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| SotK | (the bug is that if for some reason we fail to find the person's openid, they won't be able to log in to the user which is assigned to all the tasks I believe) | 19:09 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | ahh, right | 19:10 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | hm, I wonder why we would fail to find their openid? | 19:10 |
| SotK | and in a related way sometimes duplicate users will attempt to be added and cause everything to break | 19:10 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | the first bit sounds like something that could be worked around manually | 19:10 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | (by updating the db directly) | 19:10 |
| SotK | yeah | 19:10 |
| SotK | idk, I need to debug the depths of the openid library I think | 19:10 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | :/ | 19:10 |
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| SotK | on the plus side this week coming up is looking marginally less busy than last week turned out, so I should have more time to figure it out | 19:11 |
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| zara_the_lemur__ | cool | 19:12 |
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| zara_the_lemur__ | I might get to take a look since I'm looking at db things anyway, but wary of committing myself while I'm nowhere near finishing | 19:13 |
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| zara_the_lemur__ | blogpost still in the works; I have plans upon plans so now I just gotta *write* the thing ;) | 19:14 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | (it'll be fine; I always do this.) | 19:14 |
| SotK | \o/ | 19:15 |
| SotK | anything else in progress? | 19:15 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | there are various things in review | 19:16 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | gimme a sec | 19:16 |
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| diablo_rojo | I have migration scripts for branches on my todo list, but I haven't gotten around to actually DOING it. | 19:19 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | hahaha I just pasted a wall of text in the wrong channel | 19:19 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | hehe | 19:19 |
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| diablo_rojo | zara_the_lemur__, lol | 19:20 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/427331/ is a change I sent yesterday | 19:20 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | which made the first few migrations function with postgres | 19:20 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | that said, the db migrations fail at 018 anyway so it's not urgent | 19:20 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | and I haven't checked it behaves nicely with mysql | 19:20 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | PM what a fantastic patch. | 19:20 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | ^ was what I sent elsewhere | 19:20 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | erm ignore the PM | 19:20 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | that was from the timestamp | 19:20 |
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| zara_the_lemur__ | that I did not successfully remove when pasting | 19:20 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | I should give up now | 19:21 |
| SotK | :D | 19:21 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/427589/ is a patch I have had no time to look at | 19:21 |
| SotK | I will take a look at things | 19:21 |
| diablo_rojo | I can give it a look at some point towards the end of this week. | 19:22 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | yay | 19:22 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | then there are sotk's patches which he's -1'd but I might as well link for completeness | 19:22 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/423877/ | 19:22 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/423876/ | 19:22 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | so we have those in the logs | 19:23 |
| SotK | they need abandonment and making better I believe | 19:23 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | okay, abandon away! | 19:23 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | abandon with abandon, if you will | 19:23 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | and now I'm looking at review I see I have still not fixed the logic in that permissions patch | 19:23 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/416070/ | 19:24 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | and useless ops manual is still in there | 19:24 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/418122/ | 19:24 |
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| * SotK makes that one go away | 19:25 | |
| zara_the_lemur__ | heh | 19:25 |
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| * zara_the_lemur__ mutters something about wishing for other people to try out the test openid server | 19:26 | |
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| zara_the_lemur__ | I can't talk, since I'm behind on everything | 19:26 |
| SotK | I can try to find time but can't promise anything | 19:26 |
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| zara_the_lemur__ | I hear ya | 19:26 |
| diablo_rojo | Samesies | 19:27 |
| SotK | anything else? | 19:27 |
| diablo_rojo | Nope | 19:27 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | not from me | 19:27 |
| SotK | #topic Discussion | 19:28 |
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| zara_the_lemur__ | I don't think I actually have anything this week | 19:30 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | when I close my eyes I just see sqlalchemy error messages | 19:30 |
| SotK | :( | 19:30 |
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| SotK | the worst kind of error message | 19:31 |
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| * zara_the_lemur__ tries to remember what utility it is that just goes 'there was an error' and quits | 19:31 | |
| zara_the_lemur__ | that probably qualifies as the actual worst | 19:31 |
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| zara_the_lemur__ | oh, any ideas for the blogpost after this one? | 19:33 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | aw I lost the bikeshed etherpad link | 19:33 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | but that's a good place for them | 19:34 |
| SotK | I don't have it on hand | 19:34 |
| SotK | one sec | 19:34 |
| SotK | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/storyboard-blog-bikeshed | 19:35 |
| diablo_rojo | I think I put a few on there | 19:35 |
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| zara_the_lemur__ | thanks | 19:35 |
| diablo_rojo | Is the post almost done? | 19:36 |
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| zara_the_lemur__ | well, I know what's going in it; I tend to actually *write* things in a big lump at the last minute | 19:36 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | so no alarm bells are ringing for me | 19:36 |
| * diablo_rojo rings a bell | 19:37 | |
| zara_the_lemur__ | haha | 19:37 |
| diablo_rojo | zara_the_lemur__, :) | 19:37 |
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| diablo_rojo | The sooner we get that out the better I think. | 19:37 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | I used to drive my English teachers mad xD | 19:37 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | agreed | 19:37 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | if it's not up by next meeting then I'm behind my internal deadline for it. | 19:38 |
| diablo_rojo | zara_the_lemur__, should I set a due date for you? | 19:38 |
| diablo_rojo | Lol that sounds good | 19:38 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | :) | 19:38 |
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| * zara_the_lemur__ will emigrate before next week then :D | 19:40 | |
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| SotK | :D | 19:40 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | I think I'm all done for this meeting | 19:40 |
| diablo_rojo | zara_the_lemur__, me too | 19:41 |
| * SotK gives it a minute | 19:42 | |
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| SotK | time to end then | 19:45 |
| SotK | thanks folks | 19:45 |
| SotK | #endmeeting | 19:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:45 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Feb 1 19:45:41 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:45 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2017/storyboard.2017-02-01-19.01.html | 19:45 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2017/storyboard.2017-02-01-19.01.txt | 19:45 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2017/storyboard.2017-02-01-19.01.log.html | 19:45 |
| zara_the_lemur__ | thanks | 19:45 |
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| notmyname | swift team meeting time | 21:00 |
| notmyname | #startmeeting swift | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Feb 1 21:00:10 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'swift' | 21:00 |
| notmyname | who's here for the swift team meeting? | 21:00 |
| joeljwright | o/ | 21:00 |
| timburke | o/ | 21:00 |
| m_kazuhiro | o/ | 21:00 |
| kota_ | hi | 21:00 |
| dmorita | hi | 21:00 |
| zaitcev | o/ | 21:00 |
| mathiasb | o/ | 21:00 |
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| tdasilva | hi | 21:01 |
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| notmyname | ...waiting just a bit for a few more people | 21:01 |
| joeljwright | c'mon clayg! | 21:01 |
| sgundur | hi | 21:02 |
| timburke | i can see him... | 21:02 |
| notmyname | joeljwright: he was so excited about it today ;-) | 21:02 |
| joeljwright | :D | 21:02 |
| notmyname | acoles_ won't be here today | 21:02 |
| zaitcev | a door jammed in a toilet stall? | 21:02 |
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| clayg | o/ | 21:02 |
| notmyname | I'm not sure about jrichli (she might be in an airport) | 21:02 |
| notmyname | same with bkeller | 21:03 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 21:03 |
| jungleboyj | Going to try and sit in on meetings more often. | 21:03 |
| notmyname | joeljwright: it's the best part of the week | 21:03 |
| clayg | jungleboyj: great! | 21:03 |
| notmyname | ok, let's get started | 21:03 |
| notmyname | welcome, everyone to the swift team meeting | 21:03 |
| jungleboyj | :-) A new friend from Lenovo! | 21:03 |
| jungleboyj | Or an old IBM friend ... depending on how you look at it. | 21:03 |
| notmyname | only two big topics to cover this week. so let's do the faster one first | 21:04 |
| notmyname | #topic ptg prep | 21:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ptg prep (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:04 | |
| notmyname | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/swift-ptg-pike | 21:04 |
| notmyname | that etherpad is for the three days we have at the ptg in a few weeks | 21:04 |
| notmyname | please add stuff and fill out info | 21:05 |
| notmyname | each of those topics need more info on them | 21:05 |
| notmyname | (yes I know I added most, so it's my fault more than others that it isn't filled out...) | 21:05 |
| notmyname | however, if you've got something to talk about, or if you know about somethng that's already written down, add info about it to the etherpad | 21:05 |
| clayg | notmyname: I feel like we used to have stuff like "wtf is this; who care about this; relevent docs/code/ideas" or some stuff? | 21:06 |
| notmyname | starting next week (about a week from now) we'll organize who's interested in what so we do schaduling of the big topics | 21:06 |
| notmyname | clayg: in the past I've done a small template of name/description/interested for each | 21:07 |
| clayg | notmyname: something like that would probably be good - you don't have to do it now | 21:07 |
| clayg | or do it now | 21:07 |
| clayg | :P | 21:07 |
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| notmyname | heh | 21:08 |
| notmyname | ok, I added a template. all those existing things need to be filled out | 21:08 |
| notmyname | and new stuff, too, as it's added | 21:08 |
| notmyname | the PTG shouldn't have any surprises for us, with the way the swift room will work | 21:08 |
| notmyname | we'll do this very much like we've done past summits and hackathons | 21:09 |
| tdasilva | notmyname: sounds like we won't have a projector there thou... | 21:09 |
| notmyname | we'll rearrange tables/chairs and break apart | 21:09 |
| tdasilva | or TV | 21:09 |
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| notmyname | tdasilva: oh, interesting. I missed that. whiteboards? | 21:09 |
| tdasilva | idk | 21:09 |
| tdasilva | I thought I saw an email from ttx on that | 21:09 |
| notmyname | the etherpads for all the other projects are at | 21:10 |
| notmyname | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTG/Pike/Etherpads | 21:10 |
| notmyname | so take a look at those if there's a topic that we need to participate in (especially for monday-tuesday) | 21:10 |
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| zaitcev | ok | 21:11 |
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| notmyname | eg the py35 support will probably be something we should be a part of to some extent | 21:11 |
| notmyname | FYI there will be several people who are only at the PTG for wed-fri | 21:12 |
| notmyname | any questions on the PTG or prep? | 21:12 |
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| notmyname | ok, then let's move on to the release | 21:13 |
| notmyname | #topic upcoming release | 21:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "upcoming release (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:14 | |
| notmyname | before the ptg the openstack ocata release will be finalized | 21:14 |
| notmyname | that's happening the week of Feb 13 | 21:14 |
| notmyname | we are responsible for getting a tag on swift | 21:14 |
| notmyname | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Swift/PriorityReviews | 21:14 |
| notmyname | the priority reviews wiki page has the stuff that we're working through to get done before the release | 21:14 |
| zaitcev | looks like good progress | 21:15 |
| notmyname | yeah, it is | 21:15 |
| notmyname | thanks everyone for reviewing patches and responding to the reviews | 21:15 |
| notmyname | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/425493/ is the last of the "fix stuff to be better" patches that needs to land | 21:15 |
| notmyname | timburke already has a +2 on it, so just needing one more core to take a look | 21:16 |
| notmyname | is anyone currently reviewing that? | 21:16 |
| notmyname | clayg: do you know? | 21:16 |
| timburke | torgomatic around? no? | 21:16 |
| notmyname | looks like mattoliverau and sam have looked | 21:16 |
| clayg | know what? | 21:17 |
| notmyname | IIRC mattoliverau just went on a trip or something (left today) | 21:17 |
| notmyname | clayg: who elese might be looking | 21:17 |
| clayg | notmyname: yeah that's ready to go | 21:17 |
| clayg | I think torgomatic and be tricked into a +A | 21:18 |
| clayg | mattoliverau: knows the problem space and signed off on the design | 21:18 |
| notmyname | kk | 21:18 |
| notmyname | let's bug torgomatic and see if we can get his +A | 21:19 |
| notmyname | clayg: what was the patch you wanted to make people aware of? | 21:19 |
| clayg | it'd be nice for acknowledgement from addl. core about my hi-jacking of handoffs_*first* - but everyone seems to understand the use-case for EC to prefer revert is *super* important | 21:19 |
| notmyname | with the upgrade issue | 21:19 |
| clayg | so this seems like the most straight forward path - although going into a major release it's possible there's some important meta-work even if we want the code to do exactly what's written | 21:19 |
| zaitcev | I'm very weak in the reconstructor area, unfortunately, but I can give it a good try... | 21:20 |
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| clayg | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/419787 needs to land | 21:20 |
| clayg | it's the final form of the suffix hashing fix | 21:20 |
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| clayg | it's at least as important as the handoffs_first mode for EC fix | 21:20 |
| clayg | was hoping to get PavelK to sign off | 21:20 |
| notmyname | ah right. and I'd missed it on the wiki | 21:20 |
| timburke | clayg: did you ever give those docs a look through to see if any of your patches change things? | 21:21 |
| notmyname | onovy: ^ | 21:21 |
| clayg | in the 11th hour we'd discovered the data format migration of hashes.pkl isn't as backwards compatible as we thought | 21:21 |
| clayg | so if you rollback you'll be unhappy until you delete all your hashes.pkl | 21:21 |
| clayg | but... you know - don't rollback | 21:21 |
| clayg | there was a bunch of %^&*ing bugs in the old code! | 21:21 |
| notmyname | so clean upgrade path, but with a rollback issue | 21:21 |
| clayg | notmyname: correct! | 21:22 |
| notmyname | when it comes time for the changelog, please help me remember that :-) | 21:22 |
| clayg | but srly, don't rollback - that junk on master is broken | 21:22 |
| notmyname | I'm really curious how many times ops have done a partial swift upgrade and rolled back | 21:22 |
| clayg | i stuck an UpgradeImpact in the commit - dunno if that helps | 21:22 |
| clayg | I've only done it once #neveragain | 21:23 |
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| zaitcev | I never had to do it. Not even when policy indexes were added. | 21:23 |
| clayg | not that anyone cares - but I'm going to merge cschwede's patch to fix this thing that really get's under my skin in swift-ring-builder https://review.openstack.org/#/c/326967/ | 21:24 |
| notmyname | I'm not aware of it being a thing people do. good to note int eh changelog though | 21:24 |
| notmyname | clayg: ack | 21:24 |
| notmyname | ok, kota_'s global ec patch | 21:24 |
| notmyname | kota_: what's the status there? | 21:24 |
| notmyname | I really would like to see that in this release :-) | 21:25 |
| kota_ | notmyname: I hope so | 21:25 |
| kota_ | notmyname: i think clayg and timburke is continuing the reviews | 21:25 |
| kota_ | notmyname: only one rebase happend in this week | 21:25 |
| clayg | also on the hashes fix (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/419787) - it's a trixy little bit of code that took a bunch of work to get right - cschwede and PavelK (onovy) know what's going on | 21:25 |
| clayg | I'm not sure who/when is going to +A | 21:25 |
| notmyname | clayg: do you want to get cschwede to give his blessing? | 21:26 |
| notmyname | kota_: that's good :-) | 21:26 |
| notmyname | kota_: looks like the current patch set is ready for next round of reviews | 21:26 |
| clayg | notmyname: ok well it's *really* important to note that ec_duplication is not a complete solution to global EC | 21:26 |
| kota_ | notmyname: yes | 21:26 |
| notmyname | kota_: clayg: timburke: what's your sense of landing this patch this week? likely? possible? no way it's happening? | 21:27 |
| clayg | notmyname: I'm all for getting it in - but we won't be "delivering" anything to anyone that runs swift - it's only for dev/testing - first step on a journey - i'm acctually not entirely clear the right way to docuemnt or "release" ec_duplication - but I'm definately interested in the global ec story (I think the reconstructor is finally ready for it!) | 21:27 |
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| clayg | notmyname: I'd just be leary focusing on ec_duplicates during the final RC weeks if there's other operationally impactful stuff that needs to go in the release. | 21:29 |
| timburke | kota_: can we ensure good dispersion of the duplicates? if we can't, should we still land it (as experimental) and iterate? | 21:29 |
| clayg | but for my part - I'm done with operational stuff as soon as the handoffs_first and better suffix hashing land - then I'm full on 'development on future" | 21:29 |
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| kota_ | timburke: not yet. to ensure the dispersion, we need to have one more big patch (i.e. composite ring) imo | 21:30 |
| notmyname | clayg: AFAIK, the other operationally impactful stuff has been landed (or just about to) | 21:30 |
| timburke | kota_: make sense | 21:30 |
| clayg | so ec_duplciates is the right place for me to focus AFAIK - but it's not relevant in/out of the release for me | 21:30 |
| notmyname | my understanding is that "in the release" is actually more important for kota_. so I'd defer to him on that question | 21:31 |
| clayg | I think the important thing is that we have ec_duplicates under our belt by PTG so we can make progress on what needs to happen to finish global EC in the next cycle | 21:31 |
| notmyname | (bringing in the "fun" reality that we work for employers who want to see certain things happening) | 21:31 |
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| clayg | I'll commit to "will land before Atlanta" - I might advocate for *not* in the release because of the experimental nature - but i'm open to being pushed around because of the long history of the patch | 21:32 |
| clayg | I still stand by the reconstrcutor wasn't ready for work to begin until now - kota_ literally lives in the future - we've finally caught up | 21:32 |
| kota_ | clayg: the commit sounds ok, "will land before Atlanta" | 21:32 |
| notmyname | kota_: what do you need or want? does this need to land in this OpenStack ocata release? | 21:32 |
| notmyname | ah ok | 21:32 |
| kota_ | hopefully it's in Ocata | 21:32 |
| notmyname | the truth is, the window between the ocata release and the PTG is Friday February 17 | 21:33 |
| notmyname | clayg: ^ | 21:33 |
| clayg | notmyname: when does the RC get pulled off master? | 21:34 |
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| notmyname | I'll likely have to tag the ocata release on the 16th | 21:34 |
| notmyname | it's up to us, but the 16th is likely the last day possible | 21:34 |
| notmyname | and the ptg starts the following monday | 21:34 |
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| notmyname | so that being said, let's say we'll land this patch both "before atlanta" and also "in the ocata release" | 21:35 |
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| notmyname | sound ok? | 21:36 |
| kota_ | great | 21:36 |
| notmyname | clayg: timburke? | 21:36 |
| timburke | i think we can do that | 21:36 |
| clayg | notmyname: I think "in ocata release" puts a bigger burdon to ensure the experimental nature is properly documented - but maybe only marginally so | 21:37 |
| timburke | and it leaves us in a place where we can justify backporting the composite rings work | 21:37 |
| clayg | oh dear goodness | 21:37 |
| notmyname | lol | 21:37 |
| notmyname | or not | 21:37 |
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| clayg | look - if you don't backport this feature ec_duplciation_factor doesn't give you global ec!? | 21:38 |
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| timburke | lumpy duplicates seems like a pretty bad place to be -- look, i can get m + k fragments! wait, i still can't reconstruct... | 21:38 |
| notmyname | no need to figure out backport policies for future work. we've got enough to think about for now | 21:38 |
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| timburke | true enough | 21:39 |
| notmyname | for now, land the patch we've got and we'll try hard to have good words in the release notes and docs about it | 21:39 |
| notmyname | ok, now we need to have the same conversation about the part power increase patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/337297/ | 21:39 |
| notmyname | again, an old patch with a ton of work | 21:40 |
| notmyname | I didn't see if cschwede was actually here today or not | 21:40 |
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| notmyname | timburke and zaitcev have been looking at it, along with some others | 21:40 |
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| notmyname | and mattoliverau | 21:40 |
| notmyname | but again, IIR mattoliverau's out for the rest of the week | 21:41 |
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| notmyname | so where on we on this patch? will it land? what needs to happen? | 21:41 |
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| timburke | i'm fairly confident we can get it landed. seems really really close | 21:41 |
| tdasilva | it would be great to see it land before ocata | 21:41 |
| zaitcev | I convinced myself that it does the right thing, but I'd like to have someone else look, I may be getting dull to something obvious (like %f format hehe). | 21:42 |
| notmyname | tdasilva: have you been looking at this one? I see you were added, but I don't see any comments | 21:42 |
| notmyname | kota_: same question ^ | 21:42 |
| tdasilva | notmyname: did not | 21:43 |
| notmyname | tdasilva: ok | 21:43 |
| kota_ | notmyname: not yet | 21:43 |
| notmyname | kota_: ok | 21:43 |
| notmyname | kota_: you've got the EC patch to spend time on | 21:43 |
| kota_ | notmyname: true | 21:43 |
| timburke | i just want to say, i'm very sad that we do `... >> (32 - part_power)` instead of `... & ((1 << (part_power + 1)) - 1)` | 21:43 |
| zaitcev | Yeah. I didn't bug Kota | 21:43 |
| notmyname | is there someone else who can take a look at this part power increas patch? | 21:44 |
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| clayg | timburke: i don't get it | 21:44 |
| notmyname | clayg: makes more sense when he draws it on a whiteboard | 21:45 |
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| timburke | clayg: the way things are, increasing part_power moves *everything*. if we did it the other way, only half the world moves | 21:45 |
| clayg | notmyname: doubt it? | 21:45 |
| clayg | notmyname: the part-power-increase is a good example of something that has the potential to acctually impact swift operational deployments in octocat | 21:46 |
| timburke | it's the difference between mapping X to either 2X or 2X + 1, and mapping X to either X or 2^n + X | 21:46 |
| notmyname | tdasilva: would you be able to look at this patch this week? | 21:46 |
| clayg | notmyname: if we're resourced constrained and need to make hard calls you know where my heart lies | 21:47 |
| tdasilva | notmyname: yeah, i can. One of the reason I haven't was more because we (rht) didn't feel comfortable we pushing it all (christian, pete and I) | 21:47 |
| tdasilva | so I could review and not +A ?? | 21:48 |
| notmyname | tdasilva: ack, but (1) I've not ever seen that as a problem in all the years of swift and (2) it's also got a huge about of input from rax and swiftstack | 21:48 |
| timburke | tdasilva: if it makes you feel better, i'm happy to be the +A | 21:48 |
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| timburke | ...when the time comes, of course | 21:49 |
| tdasilva | notmyname, timburke sounds good | 21:49 |
| notmyname | ok, thanks | 21:49 |
| notmyname | anything else to cover about the upcoming release? | 21:49 |
| clayg | timburke: does it acctually effect the consumption of inodes? do the parts that "don't move" still need hardlinks under the epoch-tree or whatever it's called? | 21:49 |
| cschwede | notmyname: sorry, just arrived home :/ | 21:50 |
| clayg | timburke: because if you can really decrase the inode useage by 2x - that should totally happen | 21:50 |
| notmyname | cschwede: no worries | 21:50 |
| * cschwede goes reading the backlog | 21:50 | |
| zaitcev | clayg: yes, temporarily 2x inodes, then back when relinker finishes | 21:50 |
| clayg | notmyname: is symlinks really further out than ec_duplicates and part-power-increase? | 21:50 |
| clayg | notmyname: what about tdasilva's patch that fixes 200 after DELETE | 21:51 |
| notmyname | tdasilva: symlink question should go to you | 21:51 |
| clayg | zaitcev: not just 2x - but +2x - a 200% increase (not just 100%) | 21:51 |
| clayg | zaitcev: I wasn't clear if timburke's "I wish" was an oppertunity to get it down to 100%? | 21:52 |
| tdasilva | re: symlinks, timburke has left some great comments (but I think they are all minor fixups) so I've been waiting for more comments to try to limit the number of changes. | 21:52 |
| tdasilva | the big ticket item that is left is the symlink target path on the container db that we talked about | 21:53 |
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| clayg | oh right forgot about that one | 21:53 |
| notmyname | clayg: no. he want's a time machine to change the way the ring was written in 2009 | 21:53 |
| timburke | clayg: my "i wish" would get us from a 2x during the migration down to a 1.5x, only we can't do it, because that's not how part_power works | 21:53 |
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| clayg | timburke: notmyname: ok great - I've wiped the conversation from my mind - thank you! | 21:54 |
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| clayg | tdasilva: do you want to merge w/o putting the target in the container db or do you want someone to write a POC | 21:55 |
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| tdasilva | clayg: I was planning on working on that as a dependent patch that would evolve on its own | 21:55 |
| tdasilva | again to limit the number of patchsets | 21:55 |
| tdasilva | and if we think it is good, maybe we can squash ?? | 21:56 |
| tdasilva | wdyt? | 21:56 |
| timburke | tdasilva: looks like there were still some func test failures -- is that just because of the post-as-copy stuff? would a rebase fix most of those? | 21:56 |
| tdasilva | timburke: yes | 21:56 |
| clayg | yeah doing the POC in the follow on patch would be a great idea - my question is about merge. | 21:56 |
| notmyname | oh, and we need to get the community qa cluster redeployed with fast post I think too | 21:56 |
| tdasilva | timburke: actually, not a rebase, we might need to skip symlink func tests if slow-post is on | 21:56 |
| tdasilva | since we don't plan on supporting that at all | 21:57 |
| clayg | either we think we should merge w/o names in the listing (and effectively agree it just NBD if it ever happens, same as other manifest objects) or we want to see the POC and make the go-no-go call *before* we merge | 21:57 |
| tdasilva | notmyname: right | 21:57 |
| clayg | ... specifically becase we recognize it's hard to go back if you don't start with the data at point A | 21:57 |
| tdasilva | clayg: agree, might also be an argument for not landing it for ocata | 21:58 |
| notmyname | we're running out of time in the meeting room | 21:58 |
| timburke | yup, 'cause we've still got the post-as-copy coverage. i still think we *could* support it if we really wanted, but maybe this'll be a nice carrot to incent people to get off the old, bad, slow code? | 21:58 |
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| tdasilva | timburke: don't really want ;) | 21:58 |
| clayg | ok so no symlinks in octocat - wfm - we'll POC the names in the listings as soon as we can find a box of round tuits | 21:58 |
| jrichli | sorry im late o/ | 21:58 |
| tdasilva | clayg: yeah, my plan is to start playing with that POC before the end of this week | 21:59 |
| tdasilva | clayg: jrichli is also looking at container sync for symlinks, so yeah, there's still some WIP | 21:59 |
| clayg | tdasilva: well given the release crunch - it might be better to have you on some other outstanding issues | 21:59 |
| notmyname | ok, so the plan is the landing of the smaller patches (most of which already have the reviews) | 21:59 |
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| clayg | I'd like to pick up advocating for the GET 200 after DELETE fix (the 404 x-backend-timestamp bug thing) | 22:00 |
| tdasilva | notmyname: fair enough | 22:00 |
| tdasilva | clayg: that I do need help with | 22:00 |
| notmyname | clayg: ok. add it to the wiki page | 22:00 |
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| clayg | tdasilva: ^ +1 get it on the wiki page | 22:00 |
| clayg | that's time yeah? | 22:00 |
| tdasilva | clayg: i think we are done here | 22:01 |
| notmyname | ....and the plan for the others is to continue to iterate and review the ec repl patch and the part power increase patch | 22:01 |
| notmyname | yeah, we're over time | 22:01 |
| notmyname | thanks everyone for coming. thanks for working on swift | 22:01 |
| notmyname | #endmeeting | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Feb 1 22:01:28 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2017/swift.2017-02-01-21.00.html | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2017/swift.2017-02-01-21.00.txt | 22:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2017/swift.2017-02-01-21.00.log.html | 22:01 |
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