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| hongbin_ | #startmeeting zun | 03:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 18 03:00:07 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hongbin_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 03:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zun' | 03:00 |
| hongbin_ | #topic Roll Call | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| shubhams_ | Shubham | 03:00 |
| mkrai_ | Madhuri Kumari | 03:00 |
| xuhaiwei_ | xuhaiwei | 03:00 |
| Namrata | Namrata | 03:00 |
| kevinz | Kevin | 03:01 |
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| kenji-i | Hi, I'm Kenji Ishii, zun-ui developper | 03:01 |
| hongbin_ | Welcome to join the meetng shubhams_ mkrai_ xuhaiwei_ Namrata kevinz | 03:01 |
| hongbin_ | kenji-i: hey. good to see you here | 03:01 |
| hongbin_ | #topic Announcements | 03:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:02 | |
| kenji-i | hongbin_: thank you :) | 03:02 |
| hongbin_ | 1. There is no meeting next week (Oct 25) due to the OpenStack summit | 03:02 |
| hongbin_ | 2. Hongbin will be on vacation at Nov 1. mkrai_ will chair the meeting | 03:02 |
| hongbin_ | that is all for the annoucement | 03:02 |
| hongbin_ | any other annoucement from our team members? | 03:02 |
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| mkrai_ | I think I have one :) | 03:03 |
| hongbin_ | mkrai_: go ahead | 03:03 |
| mkrai_ | hongbin_ will be presenting Zun at Barcelona summit. So whoever is attending summit please attend his session | 03:03 |
| hongbin_ | :) | 03:04 |
| cloud_player | greate~ | 03:04 |
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| Namrata | sure | 03:04 |
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| kevinz | Great | 03:04 |
| cloud_player | but I can't attend it. can share the ppt in advance? | 03:04 |
| kevinz | I will attend :-) | 03:04 |
| xuhaiwei_ | when is the session? | 03:04 |
| hongbin_ | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/barcelona-2016/summit-schedule/events/16045/magnum-is-not-the-openstack-containers-service-how-about-zun | 03:05 |
| hongbin_ | cloud_player: there will be vidoe recorded in youtube | 03:05 |
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| hongbin_ | xuhaiwei_: Thursday, October 27, 9:50am-10:30am | 03:05 |
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| hongbin_ | xuhaiwei_: you will go to the summit as well? | 03:05 |
| xuhaiwei_ | got it, hongbin_ | 03:05 |
| cloud_player | thanks! @hongbin | 03:05 |
| xuhaiwei_ | yes, I will go | 03:06 |
| hongbin_ | xuhaiwei_: great | 03:06 |
| shubhams_ | Good luck hongbin_ | 03:06 |
| hongbin_ | fyi, there is a design summit session for zun as well | 03:06 |
| hongbin_ | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/barcelona-2016/summit-schedule/events/17193/zun-work-session | 03:06 |
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| hongbin_ | in this session, we will have a small group discussion for the project | 03:06 |
| hongbin_ | that is all for the openstack summit | 03:07 |
| hongbin_ | ok, advance topic | 03:07 |
| hongbin_ | #topic Support interactive mode (adisky) | 03:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Support interactive mode (adisky) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:07 | |
| hongbin_ | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/support-interactive-mode The BP | 03:07 |
| hongbin_ | it looks adisky is not here | 03:07 |
| hongbin_ | skip this one | 03:07 |
| hongbin_ | #topic Container image store (mkrai) | 03:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Container image store (mkrai) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:08 | |
| hongbin_ | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/glance-integration The BP | 03:08 |
| hongbin_ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/383678/ Madhuri's patch | 03:08 |
| hongbin_ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/380298/ Shubham's patch | 03:08 |
| hongbin_ | mkrai_: shubhams_ ^^ | 03:08 |
| mkrai_ | Yeah | 03:08 |
| mkrai_ | I have submitted patch for container image driver | 03:08 |
| mkrai_ | That currently includes Glance and Docker | 03:09 |
| mkrai_ | Patch is up for review | 03:09 |
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| mkrai_ | shubhams_ has submitted patch for adding image api endpoint | 03:09 |
| mkrai_ | I guess after these two patches we will need few finishing patches to complete this bp | 03:10 |
| mkrai_ | Any questions on it? | 03:10 |
| hongbin_ | i reviewed these two patches, it looks good for me in general | 03:10 |
| hongbin_ | no question from me | 03:11 |
| mkrai_ | Thanks hongbin_ for reviewing | 03:11 |
| mkrai_ | I guess that's all from our side | 03:11 |
| hongbin_ | mkrai_: thanks mkrai_ | 03:12 |
| hongbin_ | next one | 03:12 |
| hongbin_ | #topic Container network (hongbin) | 03:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Container network (hongbin) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:12 | |
| hongbin_ | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/neutron-integration The BP | 03:12 |
| hongbin_ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/365754/ The proposed spec (merged) | 03:12 |
| hongbin_ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/380646/ The patch | 03:12 |
| hongbin_ | the spec was merged. thanks for ppl who reviewed the spec | 03:13 |
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| hongbin_ | i removed the wip prefix for the patch | 03:13 |
| hongbin_ | that means the patch is ready for review (huge patch) | 03:13 |
| mkrai_ | I will review this week | 03:13 |
| hongbin_ | mkrai_: yes, take your time. it is quite huge | 03:14 |
| hongbin_ | i tried to summarize the change in the commit message | 03:14 |
| hongbin_ | however, do let me know if you need some help to review it | 03:14 |
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| hongbin_ | that is all for this topic | 03:15 |
| mkrai_ | sure will do that | 03:15 |
| hongbin_ | #topic Open Discussion | 03:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:15 | |
| hongbin_ | who have a topic that needs to be discussed as a team? | 03:16 |
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| mkrai_ | shubhams_ and I will be presenting Zun at Opensource India event | 03:16 |
| hongbin_ | oh, that is great! | 03:16 |
| mkrai_ | Hope we attract some developers :) | 03:16 |
| hongbin_ | mkrai_: yeah, that will help to get more devs definitely | 03:17 |
| mkrai_ | Hopefully | 03:18 |
| hongbin_ | ok, it seems there is nothing else | 03:18 |
| mkrai_ | Yes | 03:18 |
| hongbin_ | all, thanks for joining the meeting, hope to see some of you in the barcelona summit | 03:19 |
| hongbin_ | #endmeeting | 03:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 03:19 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 18 03:19:18 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 03:19 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-10-18-03.00.html | 03:19 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-10-18-03.00.txt | 03:19 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-10-18-03.00.log.html | 03:19 |
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| eranrom | #startmeeting storlets | 08:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 18 08:00:54 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is eranrom. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storlets)" | 08:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storlets' | 08:00 |
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| takashi | hi | 08:02 |
| kota_ | hello | 08:02 |
| eranrom | Hi | 08:02 |
| eranrom | Lets start :-) | 08:02 |
| eranrom | #topic Newton branch | 08:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Newton branch (Meeting topic: storlets)" | 08:02 | |
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| eranrom | I have posted a small patch. Once reviewed, I can cut the branch. | 08:03 |
| eranrom | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/385866/ | 08:04 |
| takashi | eranrom: thank you for working about that | 08:04 |
| eranrom | sure, anything else on the release3 topic? | 08:05 |
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| takashi | eranrom: Can I ask one question about the patch? | 08:05 |
| eranrom | takashi: please do. | 08:05 |
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| takashi | eranrom: As far as I understand about the patch, you first put a pin about dependency to newton in master blanch | 08:05 |
| takashi | and after cutting of Newton branch, you will revert it on master, right? | 08:06 |
| eranrom | right. Hope this makes sense. | 08:06 |
| takashi | I think there are another option to cut of Newton blanch first, and push a patch to put a pin to that stable branch | 08:07 |
| kota_ | takashi: does it mean that patch includes the tag? | 08:08 |
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| eranrom | kota_: Thanks I was just about to ask that :-) | 08:08 |
| kota_ | takashi: usually, we are doing the release via land first at the master and make a tag for the commit and push it | 08:08 |
| kota_ | (the method is available in the incuvation like swift3) | 08:09 |
| takashi | kota_: ok | 08:09 |
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| kota_ | let me take 5 minutes to move to my desk. | 08:10 |
| kota_ | please continue w/o me | 08:10 |
| takashi | my little concern is that, if we cut newton release by current way, we will merge the pinning dependency and reverting it in master, right? | 08:10 |
| eranrom | takashi: kota_: Summarising: We land the patch, tag, create a branch. update master with a new patch to revert dependencies | 08:10 |
| eranrom | takashi: right | 08:11 |
| takashi | I just wanted to know if there are any way without merging that non-fastforward (pinning and reverting) change to master, but it seems to be required | 08:11 |
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| takashi | based on that explanation | 08:11 |
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| eranrom | takashi: Well, there might be a better way, only I am not aware of it. | 08:13 |
| eranrom | perhaps we can ask the swift community next week. | 08:13 |
| takashi | anyway, we don't have so long time. maybe we can discuss the way for that with tc members, for the next release | 08:14 |
| takashi | Currently I do not have so big objection. will put +2 on the patch soon | 08:14 |
| eranrom | takashi: sure. Thanks! | 08:14 |
| eranrom | Do we want 2 reviewers for this one? | 08:14 |
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| takashi | eranrom: Can you have a look, kota_? | 08:15 |
| takashi | eranrom: maybe that is better | 08:15 |
| eranrom | takashi: sure! | 08:15 |
| eranrom | next topic? | 08:15 |
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| kota_ | back | 08:15 |
| takashi | kota_: some background for you. We discussed to have Newton release before Barcelona summit. | 08:15 |
| kota_ | takashi: sounds great | 08:16 |
| kota_ | does it needs a volunteer to do something? | 08:16 |
| eranrom | kota_: to review the patch I guess :-) | 08:16 |
| kota_ | which one or two or ??? | 08:17 |
| eranrom | lets start with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/385866/ | 08:17 |
| kota_ | k, that one. | 08:17 |
| eranrom | kota_: Thanks! | 08:17 |
| takashi | kota_: that is the patch for tagging, which adds pin about dependency | 08:17 |
| takashi | eranrom: all from my side about release. I'm ok to move to the next | 08:18 |
| kota_ | or if takashi could review it, it's ok with single +2 because it looks just small changes | 08:18 |
| takashi | kota_: ok | 08:18 |
| eranrom | ok thanks so moving to the next subject. | 08:18 |
| kota_ | tbh, Swift also wants to cut a release in this or the next week in the barcelona because of closing critical bug. | 08:19 |
| takashi | kota_: which you fixed :-) | 08:19 |
| kota_ | so i may not have enough time to take a look that, sorry. | 08:19 |
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| takashi | ok. will put +2+A later, with some comments based on this irc meeting result | 08:19 |
| eranrom | takashi: ok, note that I am putting Swift 2.9.0 as the pinned dep. | 08:20 |
| eranrom | Should we update this (on the branch) once Swift has the new release next week? | 08:21 |
| takashi | eranrom: ok. I found we need to consider to install keystone via git, and upgrade ubuntu version in the next release... but they should be addressed to Ocata cycle | 08:21 |
| eranrom | takashi: Agree! | 08:21 |
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| takashi | eranrom: If that new release is coming as bug fix, we can move the pin | 08:22 |
| takashi | new release of swift | 08:22 |
| eranrom | takashi: alright. Thanks | 08:22 |
| eranrom | So moving on (take 2 :-)) | 08:22 |
| eranrom | #topic Design Summit | 08:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Design Summit (Meeting topic: storlets)" | 08:22 | |
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| eranrom | I am working on a presentation for the spark part, and thought I would also prepare some slides on the deep dive. | 08:23 |
| eranrom | Wanted to ask you what should I cover, or if there are subjects you would like to cover. | 08:23 |
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| eranrom | this is in the context of the FB and working session | 08:24 |
| takashi | eranrom: Honestly speaking, I didn't think more that just checking etherpad topics, | 08:26 |
| takashi | eranrom: but if we can prepare some, it sounds good, especially for new people | 08:26 |
| eranrom | takashi: Fair enough. I was thinking about our initial discussions where we thought os also doing some storlets deep dive in the context of the design session. | 08:27 |
| eranrom | don't worry about it. I will send you the presentation for a review | 08:27 |
| eranrom | s/os/to | 08:28 |
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| eranrom | I am even not sure how much time we will have for it. | 08:28 |
| takashi | eranrom: thanks. | 08:28 |
| eranrom | allright. This is all I had planned for today. | 08:29 |
| eranrom | Any other topics? | 08:30 |
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| takashi | not so big updates. I'm still debugging the error in packaging work. I'd like to fix the problem before summit, but currently need to find the time for that... | 08:31 |
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| takashi | that's all from my side today. | 08:32 |
| kota_ | k, as calling a few minutes before, I've been tighten up to Swift upstream work so no updates in recent. | 08:32 |
| eranrom | takashi: sure. Also here is a long holidays period so I do not have much time to do any progress other then getting ready for the summit :-) | 08:32 |
| eranrom | kota_: sure. | 08:32 |
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| takashi | eranrom, kota_: looking forward to seeing you at Barcelona! | 08:33 |
| kota_ | all: enjoy and safe trip! | 08:33 |
| eranrom | takashi: kota_: Same here!!! | 08:33 |
| eranrom | Thanks! see you in Barcelina | 08:33 |
| eranrom | Barcelona :-) | 08:33 |
| kota_ | :-) | 08:34 |
| takashi | see you! | 08:34 |
| eranrom | #endmeeting | 08:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:34 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 18 08:34:52 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:34 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-10-18-08.00.html | 08:34 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-10-18-08.00.txt | 08:34 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-10-18-08.00.log.html | 08:34 |
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| yanyanhu | #startmeeting senlin | 13:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 18 13:00:19 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yanyanhu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:00 |
| yanyanhu | hello | 13:00 |
| zzxwill | Hello yanyanhu. | 13:00 |
| lvdongbing | hello yanyan | 13:00 |
| yanyanhu | hi, zzxwill | 13:00 |
| yanyanhu | hi, lvdongbing :) | 13:00 |
| Qiming | hello | 13:00 |
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| yanyanhu | hi, Qiming | 13:01 |
| yanyanhu | lets wait for a while for other attender | 13:01 |
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| yanyanhu | ok, lets start our discussion and others can join us later | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | here is the agenda | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | please feel free to add items you want to discuss | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | #topic Newton/Ocata Work Items | 13:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Newton/Ocata Work Items (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:03 | |
| yanyanhu | ops, should be Ocata work items | 13:03 |
| yanyanhu | first item, testing | 13:03 |
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| yanyanhu | performance test, no progress this week | 13:03 |
| yanyanhu | API test | 13:03 |
| yanyanhu | we may need some improvement here | 13:04 |
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| yanyanhu | by adding exception message verification for negative API test cases | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | to ensure the exception is expected | 13:04 |
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| yanyanhu | for example, there are many different cases badrequest exception will happen | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | and we'd better differentiate them | 13:05 |
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| Qiming | I'd like to propose postpone the message validation work | 13:05 |
| elynn | so need to check the body? | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | elynn, yes, possible | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes, it is no urgent | 13:06 |
| Qiming | with the new REST/RPC parameter passing | 13:06 |
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| Qiming | most (if not all) parameter validation is done by jsonschema | 13:06 |
| Qiming | that will give us a consistent message for verify | 13:06 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, great | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | currently, we can only make chaos matching between expected msg string and exception body | 13:07 |
| Qiming | take this as an example: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/386942/1/senlin/api/openstack/v1/clusters.py | 13:07 |
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| Qiming | Line 171 and line 172 will be responsible for all schema validations | 13:08 |
| yanyanhu | I see | 13:08 |
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| Qiming | it will check whether required field is missing, whether the data type is okay, whether there are some patterns followed etc | 13:09 |
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| yanyanhu | ok | 13:10 |
| lvdongbing | How about unexpected field? | 13:10 |
| Qiming | e.g. for cluster list request | 13:10 |
| Qiming | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/senlin/tree/senlin/objects/requests/clusters.py#n24 | 13:10 |
| yanyanhu | I think we can postpone the api test improvement workitem and wait for api/rpc rework is done | 13:10 |
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| Qiming | it will check whether limit is provided and is an integer and non-negative | 13:11 |
| Qiming | previously we were not checking it | 13:11 |
| Qiming | unexpected fields can be ruled out using 'additionalProperties: False' at the object level | 13:11 |
| Qiming | oslo.versionedobjects is still working on it | 13:11 |
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| lvdongbing | ok | 13:12 |
| Qiming | once such an option is added, all requests will benefit from it | 13:12 |
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| yanyanhu | I see. | 13:12 |
| lvdongbing | great | 13:12 |
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| yanyanhu | hi, Qiming, so this is part of Versioned Requests work item? | 13:13 |
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| Qiming | yes | 13:14 |
| yanyanhu | ok | 13:14 |
| Qiming | but we are not that urgent on this I think | 13:14 |
| Qiming | we were not checking unexpected fields yet | 13:14 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:14 |
| Qiming | for cluster create request | 13:14 |
| yanyanhu | that won't cause exception | 13:14 |
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| Qiming | once we modeled it using versioned object, we can get the jsonschema here: http://paste.openstack.org/show/586190/ | 13:15 |
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| Qiming | nova has been adding hand written schemas to their source tree for this | 13:15 |
| yanyanhu | better way is generating it from definition of object storage? | 13:16 |
| Qiming | we have just taken a further step in that direction | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | sorry, resource object | 13:16 |
| Qiming | you cannot do that | 13:16 |
| Qiming | cluster create is different cluster update, for example | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | yes, it is | 13:16 |
| Qiming | reading code there: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/senlin/tree/senlin/objects/requests/clusters.py | 13:17 |
| yanyanhu | maybe giving properties different tags? | 13:17 |
| Qiming | it is much more easier to maintain | 13:17 |
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| yanyanhu | yes, saw that implementation | 13:18 |
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| Qiming | then .. how would you model cluster list? | 13:18 |
| Qiming | we are not there yet | 13:18 |
| yanyanhu | like the way we are using in API reference :) | 13:18 |
| yanyanhu | I see | 13:18 |
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| Qiming | even the whole versioned object infra is still evolving, we are riding the wave | 13:19 |
| yanyanhu | great | 13:19 |
| Qiming | e.g. http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/senlin/tree/senlin/objects/fields.py#n54 | 13:19 |
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| Qiming | and this: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/senlin/tree/senlin/objects/fields.py#n35 | 13:19 |
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| Qiming | so ... the framework has been proved to be more effective, and we get VERSIONing ... | 13:20 |
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| Qiming | so I have revised the blueprint for this: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/senlin/+spec/objectify-service-requests | 13:21 |
| yanyanhu | cool. I think this will be an important basement for our "versioned everything" discussion in design session | 13:21 |
| Qiming | if anyone is interested in this, please join me in the effort | 13:21 |
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| yanyanhu | as an reference implementation | 13:22 |
| Qiming | with versioned object, I'm even considering deprecate the senlin.common.schema model | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes, that is possible | 13:22 |
| Qiming | for each API request, do this: | 13:22 |
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| Qiming | 1. prepare a request class, e.g. https://review.openstack.org/387893 | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | we can use this way to validate spec of profile/policy as well | 13:22 |
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| Qiming | 2. revise the engine service to handle objectified request, e.g. https://review.openstack.org/387894 | 13:23 |
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| Qiming | 3. revise the API layer to generate such a request object, e.g. https://review.openstack.org/387912 | 13:23 |
| Qiming | that's all | 13:23 |
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| Qiming | rebase profile/policy schema on ovo would be a next step | 13:24 |
| yanyanhu | so the object will be a param of rpc call | 13:24 |
| Qiming | yes | 13:24 |
| Qiming | just one single call | 13:24 |
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| yanyanhu | and it will be serialized and deserialized during transmission via rpc | 13:24 |
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| Qiming | only this one: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/senlin/tree/senlin/rpc/client.py#n54 | 13:24 |
| yanyanhu | haha, call2 :) | 13:24 |
| Qiming | the 'call2' method will be left there, all other methods will be deleted | 13:25 |
| yanyanhu | I see | 13:25 |
| Qiming | yes, don't want to break any existing users who are following the master branch | 13:25 |
| yanyanhu | maybe we can replace the current 'call' with it after everything is ready | 13:25 |
| Qiming | yes | 13:25 |
| yanyanhu | I see | 13:25 |
| Qiming | we will do that | 13:26 |
| yanyanhu | ok | 13:26 |
| Qiming | after all transitions are done, we remove the '2' part, because | 13:26 |
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| Qiming | 2 is not a good word in Chinese | 13:26 |
| yanyanhu | LoL | 13:26 |
| lvdongbing | haha | 13:26 |
| Ruijie_ | :) | 13:26 |
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| XueFengLiu | hehe | 13:27 |
| Qiming | sorry for occupying too much time | 13:27 |
| yanyanhu | great work. hope everyone can spend some time to see it. | 13:27 |
| Qiming | but I believe this is a huge change so everyone else want to understand the 'why' and 'how' | 13:27 |
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| yanyanhu | no problem at all, it will be the key for senlin to providing backward compatibility and consistency in future | 13:28 |
| Qiming | we will be able to provide smooth upgrading ... | 13:28 |
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| yanyanhu | yep | 13:28 |
| lvdongbing | Great work | 13:28 |
| Qiming | we rely on versioned object to automatically translate requests between different api versions | 13:28 |
| Qiming | if you have 3 engines, they can even run at different versions, hopefully | 13:29 |
| yanyanhu | yes. that will be very helpful for service upgrading | 13:29 |
| XueFengLiu | Cool | 13:30 |
| Qiming | shall we move on? | 13:30 |
| Qiming | 30 mins already | 13:30 |
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| yanyanhu | ok, we can have more discussion later, lets move on to next item | 13:30 |
| yanyanhu | HA | 13:31 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, lixinhui_, your turn | 13:31 |
| * Qiming obviously not working on this thread, :( | 13:31 | |
| lixinhui_ | haha | 13:31 |
| yanyanhu | I guess xinhui as well :P | 13:31 |
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| yanyanhu | for she is preparing the summit topic | 13:31 |
| lixinhui_ | a demo run through | 13:32 |
| yanyanhu | nice | 13:32 |
| yanyanhu | so that demo will be part of our HA presentation in summit? | 13:32 |
| haiwei_ | lixinhui_, what kind of demo are you preparing? | 13:32 |
| lixinhui_ | for sending notice from Octavia | 13:32 |
| elynn | There's a demo for that topic? | 13:32 |
| haiwei_ | can you explain the demo briefly? | 13:32 |
| lixinhui_ | there is misunderstanding here :) | 13:33 |
| lixinhui_ | Ethan | 13:33 |
| lixinhui_ | and I are preparing chart for summit | 13:33 |
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| elynn | Okay :) | 13:33 |
| lixinhui_ | where we will show out ideas, now, and future:) | 13:33 |
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| lixinhui_ | the demo I mentioned is about getting notice from octavia | 13:34 |
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| lixinhui_ | maybe this time we can catch stephan | 13:34 |
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| lixinhui_ | the new ptl to discuss if we can submit some BP for this | 13:34 |
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| yanyanhu | so notification can now be sent out while lb members' status change? | 13:34 |
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| yanyanhu | great | 13:35 |
| lixinhui_ | since this should be useful for senlin and other purpose since it suppose to replace lbaas | 13:35 |
| lixinhui_ | Yes, yanyanhu | 13:35 |
| yanyanhu | receiving notification from lb service is much better than polling the status of lb member for senlin | 13:35 |
| lixinhui_ | https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/neutron-specs/specs/newton/kill-neutron-lbaas.html | 13:35 |
| Qiming | I like event listeners over pollers | 13:36 |
| lixinhui_ | totally agree, yanyanhu and Qiming | 13:36 |
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| lixinhui_ | the link I just sent is the decision to kill lbaas in next step | 13:36 |
| Qiming | good to know someone is dead | 13:36 |
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| yanyanhu | :) | 13:36 |
| Qiming | and ... someone is born | 13:36 |
| lixinhui_ | :) | 13:37 |
| yanyanhu | ok, waiting for good news from you guys | 13:37 |
| lixinhui_ | sure | 13:37 |
| yanyanhu | ok, next one | 13:37 |
| yanyanhu | document | 13:37 |
| yanyanhu | no progress I guess? | 13:37 |
| Qiming | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Senlin | 13:38 |
| Qiming | Senlin frontpage | 13:38 |
| Qiming | at least someone treat it as frontpage | 13:38 |
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| Qiming | I have updated the page with some pointers to the talks we delievered | 13:38 |
| yanyanhu | all those presentations we have made have been added :) | 13:38 |
| Qiming | it took me 2 hours this afternoon | 13:39 |
| yanyanhu | and also the link to development and user doc | 13:39 |
| Qiming | convert to pdf, upload to slideshare, annotate them, then writing a short summary on the wiki | 13:39 |
| yanyanhu | you deserve a meal as compensation :) | 13:40 |
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| haiwei_ | quite quick IMO | 13:40 |
| Qiming | I will spend some time unfold that Documentation section, because it is still not obvious what we can do with senlin | 13:40 |
| Qiming | oh, forgot to mention | 13:40 |
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| Qiming | I have been talking to the product-wg guys | 13:41 |
| Qiming | it is on the product-wg@lists.openstack.org | 13:41 |
| Qiming | I was asking why senlin wasn't shown on the openstack software page | 13:41 |
| Qiming | the answer is that they require a >10% deployment, or a PTL request | 13:42 |
| yanyanhu | saw that mail :) | 13:42 |
| Qiming | and the team was raising question about senlin, what is it ... | 13:42 |
| Qiming | the wiki wasn't telling them that | 13:42 |
| yanyanhu | sigh... | 13:42 |
| Qiming | again, we need to improve the wiki | 13:42 |
| yanyanhu | yes. maybe some use cases later | 13:43 |
| Qiming | maybe adding a use case section will help | 13:43 |
| yanyanhu | e.g. the one we cooperate with cmcc | 13:43 |
| Qiming | moving terminology to a separate page ... etc | 13:43 |
| yanyanhu | great, in this summit, the presentation and video will be availble | 13:43 |
| Qiming | will work on that | 13:43 |
| yanyanhu | great, thanks for working on it | 13:44 |
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| yanyanhu | ok, lets move on? | 13:44 |
| Qiming | line 20 on the etherpad is done, removing that | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | ok | 13:44 |
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| yanyanhu | versioned request. I think we have already covered it? | 13:44 |
| Qiming | yes | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | ok, next one, container profile | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | hi, haiwei_, any updating about it? | 13:45 |
| haiwei_ | I have been watching sun these days, they have added image support | 13:45 |
| haiwei_ | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/383678/ | 13:45 |
| Qiming | beijing has been cloudy, no sun here ... | 13:45 |
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| Qiming | LOL | 13:46 |
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| yanyanhu | ok, madhuri's work | 13:46 |
| yanyanhu | :) | 13:46 |
| haiwei_ | I am thinking whether we can refer to it | 13:46 |
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| haiwei_ | sorry, my pc converted it automatically | 13:46 |
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| yanyanhu | yes, maybe we can have some discussion with zun team in summit | 13:46 |
| haiwei_ | z un is not a word | 13:46 |
| Qiming | I hoped so | 13:47 |
| yanyanhu | just there is conflict on design session time slot... | 13:47 |
| Qiming | but the timeslots all overlapped | 13:47 |
| yanyanhu | yes... all on friday morning | 13:47 |
| Qiming | there is no possibility to do cross-team talk now | 13:47 |
| haiwei_ | managing image seems out of senlin's scope | 13:47 |
| yanyanhu | haiwei_, yes, it is | 13:47 |
| Qiming | yes, so you can keep watching sun, haiwei_, :) | 13:47 |
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| haiwei_ | yes, it's shining | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | :) | 13:48 |
| Qiming | move on? | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | ok, lets move on | 13:48 |
| Qiming | no update on receiver or event notification I think | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | message receiver | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | yep | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | just added doc | 13:48 |
| Qiming | oh, some docs merged, yes | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | hope that will be helpful for user and other developer to understant it | 13:49 |
| *** jgregor has quit IRC | 13:49 | |
| yanyanhu | any issues or questions, plz just ping me | 13:49 |
| yanyanhu | or leave comments in patch :) | 13:49 |
| Qiming | Then ruijie has started some work on batching policy, please folks have your eyes on them | 13:49 |
| yanyanhu | batch policy | 13:49 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:49 |
| yanyanhu | thanks a lot for working on this, Ruijie_ :) | 13:49 |
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| Ruijie_ | my pleasure, yanyan :) | 13:49 |
| yanyanhu | if you need any help, plz find us in irc channel | 13:50 |
| Ruijie_ | I was working on the cluster_replace_action last week. | 13:50 |
| Qiming | didn't we forget to welcome lvdongbing and XueFengLiu on board? | 13:50 |
| Ruijie_ | Will keep working on batch policy later | 13:50 |
| yanyanhu | oh, right! | 13:50 |
| yanyanhu | Ruijie_, great | 13:50 |
| * Qiming applauds hard ... | 13:50 | |
| yanyanhu | will help to review | 13:50 |
| yanyanhu | welcome our new core reviewer, lvdongbing and XueFengLiu | 13:50 |
| * Qiming keeps applauding ... | 13:50 | |
| haiwei_ | welcome | 13:51 |
| lvdongbing | thanks guys :) | 13:51 |
| yanyanhu | looking forward to more coodination with you guys :) | 13:51 |
| lvdongbing | my pleasure | 13:51 |
| elynn | welcome! | 13:51 |
| XueFengLiu | hi all | 13:51 |
| yanyanhu | and hope more people will join the core reviewer team soon :) | 13:51 |
| * Qiming keeps applauding ... | 13:51 | |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, ... | 13:51 |
| yanyanhu | don't just applaud | 13:51 |
| yanyanhu | maybe some simple self introduction, lvdongbing XueFengLiu ? | 13:52 |
| yanyanhu | lvdongbing, maybe you first? | 13:52 |
| lvdongbing | OK | 13:52 |
| lvdongbing | I come from KylinCloud | 13:52 |
| lvdongbing | Have been working with Openstack for 3 years | 13:53 |
| yanyanhu | lvdongbing is a veteran of openstack I think :) | 13:53 |
| yanyanhu | great | 13:54 |
| yanyanhu | hi, XueFengLiu | 13:54 |
| yanyanhu | XueFengLiu is from ZTE | 13:54 |
| XueFengLiu | I work in ZTE | 13:54 |
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| XueFengLiu | yes | 13:54 |
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| yanyanhu | ok, welcome again, you guys | 13:55 |
| lvdongbing | Nice to meet you guys in openstack world! | 13:55 |
| yanyanhu | me too :) | 13:55 |
| yanyanhu | ok, last 5 mins | 13:55 |
| XueFengLiu | mee too | 13:55 |
| yanyanhu | #topic summit presentation | 13:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "summit presentation (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:55 | |
| yanyanhu | lixinhui_, and Ethan are preparing the HA one | 13:56 |
| lixinhui_ | Yes, yanyanhu | 13:56 |
| yanyanhu | and Qiming and me and cmcc colleague are preparing the large cluster topic | 13:56 |
| elynn | yes, might need your review and skilled experience ! | 13:56 |
| lixinhui_ | Will schedule meeting with you and Qiming | 13:56 |
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| lixinhui_ | Yes, Ethan | 13:57 |
| lixinhui_ | :) | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | no problem, please send out the slides and we can help to review | 13:57 |
| lixinhui_ | cool | 13:57 |
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| yanyanhu | ok, next one | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | irc meeting reschedule | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | I think we have no enough time to discuss this | 13:57 |
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| yanyanhu | maybe next time | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | BTW, I will send mail to cancel next irc meeting | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu | for most of you guys will be in Barcelona next week :) | 13:58 |
| Qiming | just one question, maybe we can discuss it on senlin channel | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, sure | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu | if you guys have time, we can make a quick discussion in senlin channel after meeting | 13:58 |
| Qiming | do you prefer having this meeing at night (this same time), or moving it to day time in China timezone | 13:58 |
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| Qiming | let's continue the discussion on senlin for a few minutes | 13:59 |
| yanyanhu | ok, no further items in agenda | 13:59 |
| Qiming | and release this channel? | 13:59 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, sure | 13:59 |
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| yanyanhu | thanks you guys for joining :) | 13:59 |
| lvdongbing | :) | 13:59 |
| yanyanhu | lets move back to senlin channel | 13:59 |
| haiwei_ | thanks | 13:59 |
| yanyanhu | #endmeeting | 13:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 18 13:59:56 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-10-18-13.00.html | 13:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-10-18-13.00.txt | 14:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-10-18-13.00.log.html | 14:00 |
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| sripriya | #startmeeting tacker | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 18 16:00:29 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sripriya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tacker' | 16:00 |
| sripriya | hello tackers | 16:00 |
| sripriya | #topic Roll Call | 16:00 |
| janki | Hi | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:00 | |
| janki | o/ | 16:00 |
| tung_doan_ | hi all | 16:00 |
| vishwanathj | o/ | 16:01 |
| n-harada | o/ | 16:01 |
| mike_m | o/ | 16:01 |
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| neel | o/ | 16:01 |
| tbh | Hi all | 16:01 |
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| sripriya | janki: tung_doan_ vishwanathj n-harada mike_m neel tbh hello! | 16:01 |
| sripriya | #chair tbh | 16:02 |
| openstack | Current chairs: sripriya tbh | 16:02 |
| sripriya | #topic Announcements | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:02 | |
| sripriya | the design summit etherpad has been updated with agenda items under each topic, along with chairs for each of these sessions. | 16:02 |
| sripriya | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tacker-ocata-summit | 16:02 |
| sripriya | the openstack summit schedule page also reflects the updated session descriptions. | 16:02 |
| sripriya | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/barcelona-2016/summit-schedule/global-search?t=Tacker%3A | 16:02 |
| sripriya | and here is the mailing list link for the same | 16:03 |
| sripriya | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-October/105914.html | 16:03 |
| diga | O/ | 16:03 |
| sripriya | team, please feel free to add your inputs/thoughts in the etherpad link for the topics | 16:03 |
| sripriya | diga: hello | 16:04 |
| sripriya | #topic Agenda | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:04 | |
| sripriya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Tacker#Meeting_Oct_18th.2C_2016 | 16:04 |
| sripriya | we have 2 agenda items for this meeting. the rest of meeting time is open for any questions/thoughts around the design summit. if there is no burning topic for discussions, we can wrap up early as i understand many of us are preparing for the summit. | 16:04 |
| sripriya | before we get to the topics, wanted to quickly poll the team about the next 2 meetings | 16:05 |
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| vishwanathj | am assuming we are skipping next week meeting since we will be at summit | 16:05 |
| sripriya | the next weekly meeting will be cancelled in lieu of the summit (many of us will be at the summit) | 16:05 |
| sripriya | also i plan to cancel meeting for the week following the summit since folks will be traveling back, | 16:05 |
| vishwanathj | +1 | 16:05 |
| sripriya | team please vote your +1/-1s | 16:05 |
| tbh | +1 | 16:06 |
| n-harada | +1 | 16:06 |
| mike_m | +1 | 16:06 |
| manikanta | +1 | 16:06 |
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| sripriya | thanks for the response team | 16:06 |
| sripriya | #info there will be no meetings for the following 2 weeks i.e., Oct 25 2016 and Nov 1st 2016. we will be meeting next on Nov 8th 2016 after the summit. | 16:07 |
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| sripriya | let us move on to Ocata grooming topics | 16:07 |
| sripriya | #topic Ocata grooming | 16:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ocata grooming (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:07 | |
| sripriya | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tacker-ocata-grooming | 16:08 |
| sripriya | we have a good number of blueprints lined up for ocata cycle: | 16:08 |
| sripriya | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tacker/ocata | 16:08 |
| sripriya | these blueprints may get reshuffled after the summit based on the deliverables and priorities of the features required for the Ocata release. | 16:09 |
| sripriya | also, there are some new blueprints registered such as the senlin integration which in fact has a spec in progress | 16:10 |
| sripriya | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/352943/ | 16:10 |
| sripriya | i would request you all to please review the spec and provide your feedback/suggestions. | 16:10 |
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| sripriya | please note, we have included this as a topic as well in one of our work sessions led by xu-haiwei. it will be good to have some understanding of this feature before the summit. | 16:11 |
| sripriya | team, any questions or thoughts about the blueprints? | 16:11 |
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| sripriya | beyond blueprints, we have a bucket list of RFEs/bugs lined up for the Ocata cycle including: | 16:12 |
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| sripriya | 1. removing hard coded VDU values for alarm monitor policies, there is a patch in progress | 16:12 |
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| sripriya | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/382479/ | 16:13 |
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| sripriya | please review this important patch and leave your +1s if possible. | 16:13 |
| tung_doan_ | sripriya: thanks | 16:13 |
| sripriya | 2. deprecation series -- here is the laundry list of features scheduled for removals | 16:13 |
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| sripriya | tung_doan_: sure, np | 16:13 |
| sripriya | a. infra driver and mgmt driver attribute removal from vnfd api and client | 16:14 |
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| sripriya | i would request you to please add your name in the grooming etherpad for these simpler deprecation removals and helping them get wrapped up early | 16:15 |
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| sripriya | b. legacy template removal and associated home grown translator logic | 16:15 |
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| sripriya | we have the home grown parser logic for a while now in the openstack driver to support the old templates | 16:16 |
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| janki | sripriya, I am working on a. https://bugs.launchpad.net/tacker/+bug/1630936 | 16:16 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1630936 in tacker "Remove infra and mgmt driver passing from client" [Medium,Triaged] - Assigned to Janki Chhatbar (jankihchhatbar) | 16:16 |
| sripriya | the time has to come to finally remove the logic out of tacker code :-) | 16:16 |
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| sripriya | vishwanathj and team: thanks for your efforts on that | 16:16 |
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| sripriya | janki: great! | 16:17 |
| vishwanathj | you are welcome | 16:17 |
| sripriya | c. heat and nova infra drivers removal | 16:17 |
| sripriya | i believe gongysh aready has patches for some of the above | 16:18 |
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| sripriya | d. yaml template as strings deprecation warnings removal | 16:18 |
| sripriya | today,we handle and store vnfd, param and config yaml templates as raw strings in the tacker db | 16:18 |
| sripriya | we need to handle these yaml template as json objects in db, the db columns need to be modified to handle JSON types. | 16:19 |
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| sripriya | here is the bug link: | 16:19 |
| sripriya | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/tacker/+bug/1634376 | 16:19 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1634376 in tacker "remove deprecated yaml string inputs and implement json support for VNFD templates in database" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Manikantha Srinivas Tadi (manikantha-tadi) | 16:19 |
| sripriya | ah, there is already an owner for the bug, thanks manikantha-tadi! | 16:20 |
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| manikanta | I just picked some time back | 16:20 |
| sripriya | teaam, if you are looking for some low hanging fruits to start your contributions in tacker, this is a good place to start. please reach out to me or any dev in the #tacker channel. | 16:21 |
| sripriya | s/teaam/team | 16:21 |
| sripriya | any further thoughts on the deprecation removals? | 16:22 |
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| sripriya | please add on to the etherpad list or create a bug if you think any deprecation removals have been missed out | 16:23 |
| sripriya | moving on to next topic design summit topics | 16:24 |
| sripriya | #topic Ocata design summit topics | 16:24 |
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| sripriya | mike_m: did you want to provide any initial thoughts/agenda items on the topic 'VMware ESXi and Public Cloud Supprt in Tacker' ? | 16:25 |
| mike_m | sripriya: yes I can provide some, would you like me to update the etherpad with that? | 16:26 |
| sripriya | mike_m: sure, and if you can give an outline to the team here, that will be great too | 16:26 |
| mike_m | sure. since the goal is for true multi-vim support, I would like tacker be able to drive the vmware vcloud API (REST) | 16:27 |
| mike_m | this is different than vmware as ESX (under openstack) | 16:27 |
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| mike_m | vcloud API uses OVA as its basis, so there may be some complication with that. | 16:28 |
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| mike_m | is that a good starting point for the team here, or would you like more details? | 16:29 |
| sripriya | mike_m: okay, so the vcloud API is under openstack? | 16:29 |
| mike_m | sripriya: the "vcloud API" is a vmware API provided by vcenter | 16:30 |
| sripriya | mike_m: these are good starting points, also i think we should revisit the register VIM apis under Tacker itself | 16:30 |
| sripriya | mike_m: okay | 16:30 |
| mike_m | sripriya: agreed, as we chatted recently, I have some concerns around the 'admin' requirement. | 16:31 |
| sripriya | mike_m: there are some keystone related attributes that creep up to the API itself | 16:31 |
| mike_m | sripriya: yes indeed | 16:31 |
| sripriya | mike_m: cool, what are few challenges with the public cloud support? | 16:32 |
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| mike_m | sripriya: to be honest I haven't thought too much on public cloud, mostly vmware vcloud | 16:32 |
| sripriya | mike_m: ack | 16:32 |
| sripriya | mike_m: i'm sure the wider openstack community will have thoughts/suggestions on the public cloud integration when we take this up in the fishbowl session | 16:33 |
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| mike_m | sripriya: agreed | 16:34 |
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| sripriya | mike_m: one thing i can think from tacker side, is consistent translation of TOSCA templates and handling them on all these VIMs | 16:35 |
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| mike_m | sripriya: that would be a great goal | 16:35 |
| sripriya | mike_m: thanks for providing initial thoughts around the topic, please continue to update the etherpad. | 16:36 |
| vishwanathj | +1 | 16:36 |
| sripriya | mike_m: yes | 16:36 |
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| sripriya | the other topic is containerized VNFs | 16:36 |
| sripriya | tbh: janki: do you have any initial agenda items for the topic you would like to share with team? | 16:37 |
| janki | sripriya, I am more towards using zun/kuryr rather than magnum | 16:37 |
| janki | directly integrating these with tacker rather than going through heat | 16:38 |
| vishwanathj | magnum is more for container orchestration engine, right? | 16:38 |
| janki | vishwanathj, yes | 16:38 |
| tbh | sripriya, I am also looking into the area of SFC | 16:38 |
| sripriya | janki: help me understand, how different is zun from magnum? | 16:38 |
| tbh | sripriya, and Enhanced placement point of view, I think it won't be an issue as it directly uses host cpu | 16:39 |
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| sripriya | tbh: that is cool, though we are still in very early stages of SFC | 16:40 |
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| vishwanathj | tbh, what component helps with EPA? | 16:40 |
| sripriya | tbh: what about EPA? can you throw some more light? | 16:40 |
| tbh | sripriya, vishwanathj generally zun uses container engine of the host whereas magnum uses nova instance for container hosting | 16:40 |
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| janki | sripriya, Zun and Magnum are two independent projects. Zun aims to provide APIs to manage containers, while Magnum provides APIs to provision and manage Container Orchestration Engine (COEs), such as Kubernetes. | 16:41 |
| sripriya | janki: tbh: this is a good summary. | 16:41 |
| sripriya | thanks | 16:41 |
| diga | Yeah | 16:41 |
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| janki | sripriya, more at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun under FAQs | 16:41 |
| tbh | for now I considered only cpu pinning vishwanathj | 16:42 |
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| diga | Magnum is COE | 16:42 |
| vishwanathj | tbh thanks for the info | 16:42 |
| sripriya | janki: tbh: we also need to think about mapping templates to containers | 16:42 |
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| tbh | and other features still am searching for that | 16:42 |
| sripriya | janki: tbh: does this happen at the VDU level or VNF | 16:42 |
| tbh | sripriya, vishwanathj ^^ | 16:42 |
| sripriya | tbh: ack | 16:42 |
| janki | sripriya, yes. we can have --type option for the templates | 16:43 |
| tbh | sripriya, yes we need to modify the templates for now and it happens at VDU level | 16:43 |
| janki | sripriya, we would also need a template converter IMO | 16:43 |
| vishwanathj | it also depends on whether the underlying image is a VM or container, right? | 16:43 |
| tbh | sripriya, AFAIK we can't enable multiple virt drivers in one compute, correct me if I am wrong | 16:44 |
| sripriya | tbh: janki; also we will need new node types defined for containers | 16:44 |
| sripriya | tbh; yes | 16:44 |
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| vishwanathj | do we today have a node type for VMs? | 16:44 |
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| tbh | vishwanathj, we by default assume VMs as nodes as of now | 16:45 |
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| janki | sripriya, node type won't change. It will still be a VDU I think | 16:45 |
| sripriya | vishwanathj: we have VDU node type which is a VM | 16:45 |
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| vishwanathj | janki that's what I was thinking, the image of a VDU could be of container or VM...anyway needs further thought | 16:46 |
| sripriya | tbh: janki okay, i think we have a good number of agenda items to explore further and get feedback from the wider community | 16:46 |
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| sripriya | tbh: janki: thanks for providing some initial starters, please add these points to the etherpad link | 16:47 |
| janki | sripriya, vishwanathj the only difference should be about the template and placing the vdu. in this case template could be a dockerfile and placed on container supproted host/server | 16:47 |
| janki | tbh ^^ | 16:47 |
| diga | I think we should do more study on container integration | 16:47 |
| diga | Zun is still in early stage | 16:47 |
| tbh | janki, I think Dockerfile may not be the required format | 16:48 |
| sripriya | team, we also have nsd mistral integration, em interface topics pencilled in for one of the work sessions | 16:48 |
| tbh | diga, yes accepted, and kuryr is supporting magnum I believe not zun | 16:48 |
| diga | Yes | 16:49 |
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| sripriya | nsd mistral integration - we have challenges in translating tosca template to mistral workflows | 16:49 |
| sripriya | em-interface - i know mike_m is driving that, there are few points added to that topic in etherpad on some challenges that need to be addressed | 16:50 |
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| diga | tbh: it will be good to go with Magnum as it has networking and storage support | 16:50 |
| mike_m | sripriya: will be updating that as well. | 16:50 |
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| sripriya | let us continue to drive these interesting discussions on to the summit and get them kick started for ocata : | 16:51 |
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| sripriya | mike_m: thanks | 16:51 |
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| vishwanathj | yup, very interesting topics, looking forward to those discussions at the summit | 16:52 |
| tbh | diga, magnum has it's own drawbacks from tacker point of view :) | 16:52 |
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| sripriya | tackers, are there any other topics you wanted to discuss related to summit or any general questions? | 16:52 |
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| diga | All the best for you all! Enjoy @ Summit | 16:52 |
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| sripriya | alright, i think it is a wrap for today! | 16:53 |
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| diga | sripriya: just one request, | 16:54 |
| sripriya | diga: shoot | 16:54 |
| diga | sripriya: try to update the etherpad | 16:54 |
| diga | Will follow that | 16:54 |
| sripriya | diga we will try to be as diligent as possible in updating the etherpad :-) | 16:54 |
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| diga | Sure | 16:55 |
| diga | Thanks | 16:55 |
| janki | see you guys at the summit, bye | 16:55 |
| sripriya | thanks team, great discussions lined up for the summit! | 16:55 |
| sripriya | see you all at the summit. viajes seguros! | 16:55 |
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| sripriya | #endmeeting tacker | 16:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:55 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 18 16:55:40 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:55 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-10-18-16.00.html | 16:55 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-10-18-16.00.txt | 16:55 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-10-18-16.00.log.html | 16:55 |
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| mmedvede | #startmeeting third-party | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 18 17:01:28 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mmedvede. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 17:01 |
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| ja3 | greetings misha | 17:01 |
| mmedvede | hey ja3 | 17:01 |
| mmedvede | looks like there was no meeting two weeks ago | 17:02 |
| mmedvede | and thanks asselin_ for hosting the other one while I was out | 17:02 |
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| ja3 | well -2 weeks there was sort of a mtg. asselin was late, by which time I was on another call. someone had a question around 1320 or 1330 ET, but I'm not sure if asselin ever pushed the bot commands to start/stop the meeting. | 17:03 |
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| mmedvede | must be, I looked through logs and did not see the last one | 17:04 |
| ja3 | we are CI, we move like ghosts | 17:05 |
| mmedvede | ok, normal agenda today. No announcements | 17:05 |
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| mmedvede | the only one that everyone is probably aware of is that pycparser 2.15 broke the gate | 17:06 |
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| mmedvede | anyone else is here for the meeting? | 17:07 |
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| pots | o/ | 17:07 |
| clarkb | mmedvede: and 2.16 has fixed it again | 17:08 |
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| mmedvede | hi pots | 17:08 |
| pots | hi all | 17:08 |
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| mmedvede | clarkb: right, should have mentioned it. There was an announcement on #openstack-infra | 17:09 |
| mmedvede | #topic Open Discussion | 17:10 |
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| ja3 | Ji Chen is going to talk to nova about moving z/VM's CI to non-voting but visible. | 17:10 |
| ja3 | ...no schedule for that, but should happen by end of Summit week. | 17:11 |
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| mmedvede | ja3: good to hear. Any interesting challenges still in your CI? | 17:12 |
| mmedvede | pots: we have a rather thin agenda lately. If you have any questions or topic to discuss, speak up | 17:12 |
| ja3 | mmedvede | 17:12 |
| ja3 | ...grrr...auto-complete... challenges not really. the usual problem classes. stupid dev tricks. | 17:13 |
| pots | just tuning in for pearls like the pycparser tip. thanks. | 17:13 |
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| mmedvede | ok then, lets keep it short. I'll keep the meeting open for another 5 minutes or so | 17:17 |
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| mmedvede | thanks for attending | 17:23 |
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| mmedvede | #endmeeting | 17:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:23 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 18 17:23:40 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:23 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-10-18-17.01.html | 17:23 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-10-18-17.01.txt | 17:23 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-10-18-17.01.log.html | 17:23 |
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| stevemar | o/ | 18:00 |
| stevemar | ping for meeting ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, crinkle, claudiub, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, gagehugo, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, jaugustine, joesavak, jorge_munoz, knikolla, lbragstad, MaxPC, morgan, nishaYadav, nkinder, notmorgan, raildo, ravelar, rodrigods, rderose, roxanaghe, samleon, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, xek | 18:00 |
| raildo | o/ | 18:00 |
| stevemar | #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 18 18:00:09 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| knikolla | o/ | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
| gagehugo | o/ | 18:00 |
| rderose | o/ | 18:00 |
| crinkle | o/ | 18:00 |
| dolphm | o/ | 18:00 |
| bknudson | hi | 18:00 |
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| lbragstad__ | o/ | 18:00 |
| stevemar | hey bknudson crinkle gagehugo dolphm rderose lbragstad__ | 18:00 |
| stevemar | and knikolla :) | 18:00 |
| stevemar | agenda is here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting | 18:01 |
| stevemar | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting | 18:01 |
| jaugustine | o/ | 18:01 |
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| stevemar | wait for any other late comers... | 18:01 |
| stevemar | small crowd this week | 18:01 |
| dolphm | stevemar: freenode seems to be having problems, so i'm not sure we should expect a normal attendance | 18:02 |
| gagehugo | :/ | 18:02 |
| stevemar | dolphm: thanks for the heads up | 18:02 |
| stevemar | #topic project update | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "project update (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
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| dolphm | and those that are here might drop randomly | 18:02 |
| stevemar | summit design sessions are on the wiki: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Design_Summit/Ocata/Etherpads#Keystone | 18:02 |
| stevemar | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Design_Summit/Ocata/Etherpads#Keystone | 18:02 |
| breton | o/ | 18:02 |
| stevemar | also available to view online: https://www.openstack.org/summit/barcelona-2016/summit-schedule/global-search?t=Keystone%3A | 18:02 |
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| stevemar | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/barcelona-2016/summit-schedule/global-search?t=Keystone%3A | 18:02 |
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| dstanek | o/ | 18:03 |
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| stevemar | so last time i looked at the session, i swear the time changed (to an hour earlier) | 18:03 |
| stevemar | so please look at the live schedule | 18:03 |
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| stevemar | looking forward to seeing folks next week! | 18:03 |
| breton | why is there %3A in the end? | 18:03 |
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| dolphm | breton: for security? | 18:04 |
| stevemar | breton: cause that's what came up in the address bar when i searched for it? :P | 18:04 |
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| breton | because of ":" | 18:05 |
| stevemar | breton: oh, the %3A will make sure it searches for "Keystone:" and not just "Keystone" (which would bring up a lot of results) | 18:05 |
| dolphm | if you take it off, you potentially get mentions of keystone in other tracks | 18:06 |
| stevemar | the design sessions all have "keystone:" | 18:06 |
| dolphm | more of a problem for Nova vs Nova: | 18:06 |
| stevemar | any summit questions? | 18:06 |
| dolphm | what's for tapas | 18:06 |
| stevemar | design session or otherwise | 18:06 |
| raildo | dolphm, ++ | 18:06 |
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| stevemar | dolphm: whatever you decide on, you're the chef of the group | 18:07 |
| dstanek | how will i ever get along without you guys? | 18:07 |
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| dolphm | stevemar: i should have planned ahead | 18:07 |
| stevemar | dstanek: lbragstad__ will keep you company | 18:07 |
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| * lbragstad__ highfives dstanek | 18:07 | |
| stevemar | rough timeline for ocata: https://releases.openstack.org/ocata/schedule.html | 18:08 |
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| stevemar | #link https://releases.openstack.org/ocata/schedule.html | 18:08 |
| stevemar | we'll pick dates for the various proposal freezes and such next week | 18:08 |
| * dstanek is satisfied with that answer | 18:08 | |
| stevemar | but 17 November is the ocata-1 milestone window | 18:08 |
| stevemar | so 3 weeks or so til ocata-1 | 18:08 |
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| stevemar | nows the time to fix bugs and do big things (looking at you fernet as default) | 18:09 |
| stevemar | so we have the rest of the cycle to handle the fall out | 18:09 |
| lbragstad__ | everything is ready for review | 18:09 |
| lbragstad__ | as far as making fernet the default | 18:09 |
| stevemar | lbragstad__: ++ | 18:09 |
| stevemar | lbragstad__: was just an example, but thanks for the heads up | 18:10 |
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| stevemar | lastly -- PTG info: http://www.openstack.org/ptg | 18:10 |
| stevemar | #link http://www.openstack.org/ptg | 18:10 |
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| stevemar | any questions about the pTG? i can try to answer them :\ | 18:10 |
| stevemar | 20-24 February 2017 in Atlanta, Georgia | 18:10 |
| stevemar | it replaces the midcycle for us | 18:10 |
| rderose | mid-cycle == ptg? | 18:11 |
| rderose | :) | 18:11 |
| stevemar | rderose: yeah, except its all devs | 18:11 |
| knikolla | except it's start-cycle | 18:11 |
| breton | Atlanta is far from Russia | 18:11 |
| stevemar | so no more nova-specific and keystone-specific midcycles | 18:11 |
| * breton hopes there will be ptgs in europe | 18:11 | |
| stevemar | :( | 18:11 |
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| stevemar | breton: don't quote me, but i think there will be in the future | 18:12 |
| bknudson | that's coming up quick | 18:12 |
| dstanek | stevemar: oh, i thought those were replaceing all devs at summits | 18:12 |
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| stevemar | dstanek: i'm not sure, we'll all learn a lot after the first one | 18:12 |
| dolphm | dstanek: we'll still have the "forum" which will have the traditional dev / ops / user intermix | 18:12 |
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| dolphm | i'm not super clear on how the forum will differ from previous summits though | 18:13 |
| stevemar | i believe some of the active ops will also be at the PTGs | 18:13 |
| dstanek | so still dev summit + new fangled thing? or we still don't know? | 18:14 |
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| dolphm | PTG + Forum | 18:14 |
| dolphm | PTG = centralized midcycle | 18:14 |
| dolphm | Forum ~= Summit | 18:14 |
| dolphm | that's all i got | 18:14 |
| stevemar | yep | 18:14 |
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| stevemar | whether the summit becomes less dev focused, and more marketing, i don't know yet | 18:15 |
| stevemar | i don't believe that's the case though | 18:15 |
| knikolla | still the downside is that PTG is at the start of the cycle. | 18:15 |
| raildo | only ptg will be enough for decide anything to the whole cycle? | 18:15 |
| knikolla | the way i see it, PTG == design summits. | 18:16 |
| dolphm | stevemar: that is the case, sort of | 18:16 |
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| dolphm | with the shift in schedule, the forum will be further from a release | 18:16 |
| dolphm | so that operators and users show up with feedback from the latest release | 18:16 |
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| dolphm | rather than "yeah, but we haven't had time to test it yet" | 18:17 |
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| stevemar | i'm being cautiously optimistic with the whole switch, it'll be harder for some folks to get funding for both, and the operators and kinda left out in the cold, but i trust the foundation knows what they are doing | 18:17 |
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| dolphm | PTL and TC election cycles are also being adjusted to occur at different times (i forget the details) | 18:17 |
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| stevemar | dolphm: right, PTL elections are coming up sooner this time around | 18:18 |
| dolphm | Thierry has an [all] post on the mailing list about it IIRC | 18:18 |
| stevemar | the transition stage is going to be weird | 18:18 |
| dolphm | stevemar: ++ | 18:18 |
| stevemar | but the foundation will learn a lot and act quickly | 18:18 |
| stevemar | so make sure you all submit travel requests for the PTG! | 18:18 |
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| dolphm | this also means we can expect to have a summer PTG somewhere | 18:19 |
| stevemar | yes, unannounced but yes | 18:19 |
| dstanek | i ready several of the posts about this, but i really just want the bullet points....most of the things i read spent too much time explaining the problem and justifying the solution | 18:19 |
| stevemar | dstanek: poke ttx :P | 18:20 |
| dolphm | so, Barcelona Summit (now) -> Atlanta PTG (Feb) -> Boston Forum (April) -> Unannounced PTG (summer) -> Sydney Forum (next oct/nov) | 18:20 |
| knikolla | https://www.openstack.org/assets/Uploads/summit-ptg-timeline-revised.png | 18:20 |
| stevemar | those were well timed messages | 18:20 |
| samueldmq | dolphm: nice | 18:21 |
| stevemar | i'm not sure if future "forums" will have design sessions | 18:21 |
| dolphm | always with the infrographics | 18:21 |
| stevemar | alrighty | 18:22 |
| stevemar | on to the first real topic | 18:22 |
| stevemar | #topic bug 1632924 | 18:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bug 1632924 (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:22 | |
| openstack | bug 1632924 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "Lingering sql backend role assignments after deletion of ldap user." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1632924 | 18:22 |
| stevemar | lbragstad__: ^ | 18:22 |
| samueldmq | So there will always be some time after the cycle | 18:22 |
| samueldmq | Before the next fórum presenting it | 18:22 |
| samueldmq | Oops sorry | 18:22 |
| lbragstad__ | alright i was doing some bug triage and stumbled across https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1632924 | 18:22 |
| lbragstad__ | I wasn't really sure how we should approach it | 18:22 |
| bknudson | this is deleting ldap user through keystone? | 18:22 |
| lbragstad__ | so i left a comment promising to bring it up during the meeting | 18:23 |
| lbragstad__ | bknudson: ues | 18:23 |
| lbragstad__ | yes* | 18:23 |
| bknudson | did we get rid of that code? | 18:23 |
| knikolla | don't we not support that anymore? | 18:23 |
| lbragstad__ | bknudson: we are suppose to in Ocata | 18:23 |
| stevemar | bknudson: not yet, it's WIP to be removed for this cycle | 18:23 |
| knikolla | i'm getting rid of it | 18:23 |
| lbragstad__ | but we haven't yet | 18:23 |
| bknudson | if something only exists in an old release we can fix the old release. | 18:23 |
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| lbragstad__ | bknudson: we can do that with the backport policy? | 18:24 |
| stevemar | lbragstad__: i say mark it as WONTFIX, we will not fix it in ocata, and it was deprecated in M/N, and on anything older than that we can't backport since it's not a security fix | 18:24 |
| dolphm | bknudson: ++ | 18:24 |
| dolphm | lbragstad__: yes | 18:24 |
| lbragstad__ | got it | 18:24 |
| lbragstad__ | ok | 18:24 |
| dolphm | lbragstad__: won't fix on master, but target the bug to previous series | 18:24 |
| stevemar | bknudson: depends if this is even worth fixing for deprecated behaviour | 18:24 |
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| lbragstad__ | that's the tricky part | 18:24 |
| lbragstad__ | it's a deprecated thing | 18:24 |
| lbragstad__ | do we support fixing deprecated things? | 18:25 |
| dolphm | sure | 18:25 |
| dolphm | we just don't add features | 18:25 |
| bknudson | If someone shows up with a fix I don't think we should reject it. | 18:25 |
| dolphm | i.e. adding a new command to v2 keystoneclient cli | 18:25 |
| lbragstad__ | ok | 18:25 |
| stevemar | it's low impact, the worst thing that happens is lingering role assginments | 18:25 |
| stevemar | i wouldn't mark this higher than a medium | 18:25 |
| lbragstad__ | the lingering role assignment are breaking some openstackclient calls they are making though | 18:26 |
| stevemar | really? bah | 18:26 |
| dolphm | still sounds like a medium :) | 18:26 |
| bknudson | is it breaking deleting the role assignment? | 18:27 |
| samueldmq | Also it shouldn't be a hard fix | 18:27 |
| knikolla | is there a precedent for commiting fixes directly to stable branches without backport? | 18:27 |
| samueldmq | Also it could have a migration that cleans up the existing table by comparing with the usr list | 18:27 |
| stevemar | ohh actually this isn't related to write support for LDAP | 18:27 |
| stevemar | i think the user was actually removed from the LDAP (by an admin) | 18:28 |
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| dolphm | knikolla: in this sort of scenario, yes | 18:28 |
| stevemar | like the employee was terminated or something | 18:28 |
| dolphm | knikolla: the patch will just be scrutinized more harshly for risk | 18:28 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: lbragstad Said it was deleted by keystone | 18:28 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: the bug report says different | 18:28 |
| samueldmq | When someone asked a frw lines abobe | 18:28 |
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| lbragstad__ | " The issue being encountered is when a ldap user is removed, the id for that user(actor_id) remains in the keystone.assignment table." | 18:29 |
| stevemar | the resource or in this case the user id no longer being found as it was deleted from ldap | 18:29 |
| lbragstad__ | ^ from the bug report | 18:29 |
| stevemar | it doesn't say how it was removed | 18:29 |
| knikolla | this case does affect master though | 18:29 |
| knikolla | if it's ldap deletion | 18:29 |
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| samueldmq | So perhaps we don't care | 18:29 |
| samueldmq | Wont fix? | 18:29 |
| stevemar | we should still clean it up then | 18:30 |
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| lbragstad__ | ok - here is what i'll do | 18:30 |
| lbragstad__ | i'll update it to target the older releases | 18:30 |
| lbragstad__ | and ask for more information about how the use was removed | 18:30 |
| lbragstad__ | before marking it as Won't Fix | 18:30 |
| stevemar | lbragstad__: i just did :) | 18:30 |
| samueldmq | Do we still support ldap for roles in that same release? | 18:30 |
| samueldmq | There can be the same issue | 18:30 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: don't believe so... | 18:31 |
| lbragstad__ | stevemar: ah thanks (I'm having a hell of a time with my Mac right now due to the garbage that is the Sierra update) | 18:31 |
| lbragstad__ | stevemar: I will keep tabs on it and follow up with Alberto | 18:31 |
| stevemar | lbragstad__: we good on this bug report? | 18:31 |
| stevemar | coolio | 18:31 |
| lbragstad__ | yeah - i got what i needed | 18:31 |
| lbragstad__ | thanks | 18:31 |
| stevemar | dstanek: you're up | 18:32 |
| stevemar | #topic spec saml-logout-token-revocation | 18:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "spec saml-logout-token-revocation (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:32 | |
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| dstanek | yay. | 18:32 |
| dstanek | topol_: created this a while ago and it looks like it is interesting to enterprise use | 18:32 |
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| dstanek | has anyone read the spec and have strong feeling one way or another? | 18:33 |
| dstanek | the general idea is to support the enterprise concept of a global logout | 18:33 |
| stevemar | sounds liek thats the case | 18:33 |
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| dstanek | there are some technical challenges that i haven't figured out yet and we'd likely need to start storing more information about how tokens are created | 18:34 |
| stevemar | havent looked at the etherpad yet :( | 18:34 |
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| dstanek | i did a small brain dump here: | 18:35 |
| dstanek | link: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-single-logout | 18:35 |
| stevemar | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-single-logout | 18:35 |
| stevemar | we had a few bugs reported with similar feedback | 18:35 |
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| stevemar | federaed user would log out of horizon, but they'll stay logged into their other application | 18:36 |
| dstanek | shibboleth itself does this quite easily. it's when you have to invalidate our tokens that you run into problems. | 18:36 |
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| dstanek | stevemar: that's actually pretty easy. it the IdP initiated logout that's hard | 18:36 |
| stevemar | yeah | 18:36 |
| stevemar | much harder | 18:36 |
| dstanek | someone logs out somewhere else and keystone/horizon gets the logout message | 18:36 |
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| stevemar | yeah, sounds necessary, not sure how to go aboout doing it | 18:37 |
| dstanek | so challenge right now is that if i get a logout message directly to keystone which tokens to i invalidate? | 18:37 |
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| dstanek | i was just hoping to see if anyone have a need for this or maybe has reason to say not to do it | 18:38 |
| dstanek | dolphm: will also be following up at the summit | 18:38 |
| stevemar | you'd need info abt the idp and user in the message | 18:38 |
| dolphm | ++ | 18:38 |
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| knikolla | we can't just invalidate all user tokens right? | 18:39 |
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| knikolla | that specific user* | 18:39 |
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| stevemar | dstanek: if you're gauging work items, i think we'll get more mileage out of the pysaml handler instead of mod_shib; rather than this one | 18:40 |
| stevemar | but i could be wrong | 18:40 |
| bknudson | it's easy to invalidate all user tokens. we already do it when password changes | 18:40 |
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| dstanek | knikolla: that's certainly a possiblity. we'll have to start recording saml2 session-id to user-id mapping somewhere at a minimum | 18:40 |
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| stevemar | invalidating all user tokens would handle on scenario | 18:42 |
| stevemar | not the one where the user logs out from the IDP directly though | 18:42 |
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| dstanek | so this means, for example, when horizon creates a token on behalf of a user that we would create a new database record (only one per user required) | 18:43 |
| dstanek | i'm trying to find a clever way to utilize shibboleth's builtin stuff, but i've come up empty so far | 18:44 |
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| stevemar | i'll try to dig into it, but no promises :\ | 18:45 |
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| dolphm | dstanek: you can't have more than one session ID per user at a time? | 18:45 |
| knikolla | does the idp call an endpoint when initiating logout? i'm not familiar with how it works. | 18:45 |
| knikolla | as in, is there any idp-sp communication during idp logout | 18:45 |
| dstanek | dolphm: not to my knowledge | 18:46 |
| stevemar | knikolla: i believe so, you setup a specific SSOLogOut url | 18:46 |
| dstanek | basically the SP advertises a SLO url in its metadata | 18:46 |
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| dstanek | the idp will the send an XMl message like '<LogOut><SessionId>dkdkjkgjgkkgjdf</SessionId></LogOut>' to it | 18:46 |
| dstanek | normally that goes right to shibboleth | 18:47 |
| knikolla | so we have session_id -> user_id mapping, and we revoke tokens for that user | 18:47 |
| dstanek | i'm looking for a way to have shibboleth actually call our code | 18:47 |
| dstanek | knikolla: right | 18:47 |
| bknudson | dstanek: keystone has a rest api you can call ;) | 18:48 |
| dstanek | bknudson: that's the problem. i can't figure out how to call it yet. | 18:48 |
| bknudson | curl | 18:48 |
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| dstanek | i'd actually just like mod_shib to kill off it's session data for forward the request to horizon's logout. | 18:49 |
| dstanek | my almost attempt was to have a horizon logout url that redirected to the shibboleth url. almost got that working before i called it a day on Friday | 18:50 |
| dstanek | that's the way i will continue to pursue it for right now, but i wanted to raise some awareness and get some feedback | 18:50 |
| stevemar | dstanek: keep us posted | 18:51 |
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| stevemar | open discussion? | 18:51 |
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| dstanek | the problem is i don't know if IdPs support redirects :-) | 18:51 |
| dstanek | stevemar: sure | 18:51 |
| stevemar | dstanek: thanks, i wanted to poke about something with PCI | 18:51 |
| stevemar | #topic open discussion | 18:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:51 | |
| stevemar | rderose: gagehugo tossed up https://review.openstack.org/#/c/383832/ to check for users with expired passwords | 18:52 |
| dstanek | how are the Jays doing? | 18:52 |
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| gagehugo | yes | 18:52 |
| stevemar | dstanek: i will politely ignore that | 18:52 |
| rderose | stevemar: have it on my to do list :) | 18:52 |
| stevemar | my question was whether we should automatically set a user to 'disabled' if the password expires | 18:53 |
| stevemar | but i guess we can't easily do that | 18:53 |
| stevemar | gagehugo provided a useful paste: http://paste.openstack.org/show/586034/ | 18:53 |
| gagehugo | I think you would have to just periodically check everyone's times to see if that date time had passed | 18:54 |
| gagehugo | But that seems not easy | 18:54 |
| stevemar | which, just won't happen :P | 18:54 |
| knikolla | an admin api that ops register to cron? | 18:54 |
| rderose | stevemar: hmm... we could easily disable a user if their password is expired actually | 18:55 |
| stevemar | gagehugo: i like the suggestion in the patch, to query if password_expires_at < current time | 18:55 |
| rderose | stevemar: shall I throw up a patch on this? | 18:55 |
| gagehugo | Yeah thats what we were going for originally but the wording was bad in the first few iterations | 18:55 |
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| stevemar | rderose: review the patch if possible | 18:56 |
| rderose | sounds good | 18:56 |
| bknudson | are they automatically enabled when they change their password? | 18:56 |
| rderose | bknudson: no | 18:56 |
| bknudson | Can I change my password if I'm disabled? | 18:57 |
| knikolla | an admin has to change the password for them IIRC | 18:57 |
| gagehugo | Users are not disabled when their password expires, nor are they disabled when they try to auth after expiration | 18:57 |
| bknudson | usually if my password is expired I can still change my password | 18:57 |
| stevemar | bknudson: usually, yes | 18:57 |
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| stevemar | don't think we're going to figure it out in < 2 minutes, but please review the spec and we can chat in -keystone | 18:58 |
| rderose | bknudson: if your password expires, you will need admin password reset | 18:58 |
| AJaeger | could the admin password expire as well? | 18:58 |
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| stevemar | AJaeger: yep | 18:59 |
| AJaeger | And who would reset that one? | 18:59 |
| gagehugo | Yes, I accidentally locked my admin user out | 18:59 |
| AJaeger | ;) | 18:59 |
| knikolla | keystone-manage | 18:59 |
| rderose | AJaeger: another admin | 18:59 |
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| rderose | :) | 18:59 |
| stevemar | AJaeger: you can mark certain user IDs as being privileged and not subject to the PCI expiry settings | 18:59 |
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| bknudson | as an admin I don't want to have to deal with users. | 18:59 |
| AJaeger | stevemar: I see - that works | 19:00 |
| stevemar | times up | 19:00 |
| stevemar | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 18 19:00:27 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-10-18-18.00.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-10-18-18.00.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-10-18-18.00.log.html | 19:00 |
| stevemar | see everyone in barcelona in a few days! | 19:00 |
| fungi | infra team, assemble! | 19:00 |
| pleia2 | bknudson: quote of the day | 19:00 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:00 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:00 |
| bknudson | he he | 19:00 |
| AJaeger | o/ | 19:00 |
| crinkle | o/ | 19:00 |
| Zara | o/ | 19:00 |
| ianw | morning | 19:00 |
| *** gagehugo has left #openstack-meeting | 19:01 | |
| fungi | this week's topics proposed by flaper87, ianychoi, eumel8, fungi | 19:01 |
| SotK | o/ | 19:01 |
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| clarkb | ohai | 19:01 |
| eumel8 | hiho | 19:01 |
| jeblair | as a user, i don't want to have to deal with ___ | 19:01 |
| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 18 19:02:22 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:02 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:02 |
| fungi | many thanks to pleia2 for chairing last week's meeting in my absence! | 19:02 |
| pleia2 | you're welcome | 19:02 |
| fungi | i've read the log, seems it was pretty straightforward and brief | 19:02 |
| fungi | excellent | 19:02 |
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| fungi | #topic Announcements | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| flaper87 | o/ | 19:03 |
| fungi | #info The Infra team meeting will be skipped next week as many will be at the summit, but we will reconvene our usual meeting on Tuesday, November 1 at 19:00 UTC. | 19:03 |
| fungi | as always, feel free to hit me up with announcements you want included in future meetings | 19:03 |
| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-10-11-19.02.html | 19:03 |
| fungi | pleia2 to add infra summit schedule | 19:03 |
| fungi | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/barcelona-2016/summit-schedule/global-search?t=Infrastructure%3A | 19:03 |
| fungi | thanks for taking care of that as well! | 19:03 |
| pleia2 | we have a schedule now \o/ | 19:03 |
| fungi | anyone want to volunteer to prep etherpads for each of the sessions listed there, so they're ready for use next week? | 19:03 |
| * fungi waits for everyone to jump at that exciting task | 19:04 | |
| Zara | gah, lag, I'm still waiting for it to load | 19:04 |
| pleia2 | I can knock it out real quick this afternoon | 19:05 |
| fungi | yeah, the schedule site there is pretty slow. not sure what's up (or down?) with that | 19:05 |
| Zara | oh, okay, I thought it was on my end. I'm happy to do the etherpad for task-tracking | 19:05 |
| fungi | pleia2: awesome! | 19:05 |
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| fungi | yeah, we just need some skeleton etherpads added to the summit etherpads wiki page, and then the people leading those sessions can add plenty of prep detail | 19:06 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Design_Summit/Ocata/Etherpads | 19:06 |
| fungi | apparently that exists already | 19:06 |
| pleia2 | great | 19:07 |
| fungi | #action pleia2 add skeleton infra session etherpads linked from the ocata design summit etherpads wiki page | 19:07 |
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| fungi | #topic Specs approval | 19:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:07 | |
| fungi | nothing new this week on the agenda | 19:07 |
| fungi | though as pleia2 pointed out last week, the zuul v3 spec clarification we agreed to approve has not merged yet | 19:07 |
| fungi | (i didn't forget to approve it, but it depends on another spec update we'd opted to defer for further discussion) | 19:07 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/381330 Zuul v3: correct vagueness in describing job inheritance | 19:07 |
| jeblair | expect me to push on those after summit | 19:08 |
| fungi | if someone (jeblair?) wants to rebase that onto the master branch tip, i'm happy to reapprove | 19:08 |
| fungi | or we can wait for the other to land | 19:08 |
| jeblair | i think it's no rush | 19:08 |
| fungi | wfm | 19:08 |
| fungi | thanks jeblair! | 19:08 |
| jeblair | ty | 19:08 |
| fungi | i just didn't want anyone to think i was even more absent-minded than i am ;) | 19:08 |
| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts | 19:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:09 | |
| fungi | nothing is called out on the agenda | 19:09 |
| fungi | though zaro is suggesting that we should probably at least fast-track the next gerrit upgrade so that it gets done very early in the ocata cycle | 19:09 |
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| fungi | if someone wants to put together a very small spec for it (could mostly just copy the last upgrade spec), i agree it would make sense as an ocata cycle priority effort | 19:09 |
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| fungi | he's apparently got a few outstanding changes up for review that build up a more complete dev environment where we can demo a new gerrit version more thoroughly integrated into zuul/nodepool | 19:10 |
| zaro | i'm working on the spec | 19:10 |
| fungi | thanks zaro! i'll be keeping an eye out for it | 19:10 |
| fungi | #topic Host http://shields.io/ for generating badges to show on repos (flaper87) | 19:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Host http://shields.io/ for generating badges to show on repos (flaper87) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:11 | |
| fungi | #link http://shields.io/ | 19:11 |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-October/105562.html | 19:11 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 19:11 |
| fungi | i will admit i haven't caught up on the dev ml backlog while i was travelling | 19:11 |
| fungi | so no clue what this is about, but i'm sure you'll tell me ;) | 19:11 |
| flaper87 | So, in the context of that email thread linked there, I was wondering whether it may be possible for us to host that service. The idea is to be able to generate some badges (like the ones you'd see in github for travis) so that we can expose some information about the teams/projects directly on the readme files | 19:12 |
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| flaper87 | the goal is not to duplicate this information but to read it from the governance website directly. We've several ways to make this possible but the three easist are: | 19:12 |
| flaper87 | 1) Host the shield app and adapt it to our needs 2) have the host repo add `openstack` support (I've a basic patch for this) 3) HAve an API under governance.openstack.org that generates these badges | 19:13 |
| flaper87 | These won't be "rendered" in git.openstack.org, though | 19:13 |
| flaper87 | As we don't render .rst files there | 19:13 |
| fungi | okay, so mostly just callouts to some query against governance tags that apply to projects or deliverables to which those repos belong? | 19:14 |
| AJaeger | flaper87: why do we need a complete app to show some images? | 19:14 |
| flaper87 | yeah | 19:14 |
| flaper87 | AJaeger: because it does the job already | 19:14 |
| flaper87 | otherwise we'd have to come up with the API for that | 19:14 |
| flaper87 | render the images, etc | 19:14 |
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| flaper87 | which is what shields does | 19:14 |
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| flaper87 | you may argue that we may not want to host nodejs apps, and that's a good point | 19:14 |
| clarkb | why do we need an api for that? | 19:14 |
| clarkb | cant we just host the images anywhere (including in the repo itself) and render from there? | 19:15 |
| flaper87 | clarkb: I think we do if we want it to be dynamic | 19:15 |
| clarkb | it seems like a lot of effort to run a new service for a service we don't even support other than as a git mirror when you can just host the images anywhere | 19:15 |
| jeblair | (i guess you could approximate dynamic by rendering them in a cron) | 19:15 |
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| flaper87 | note that this is not just to "have nice badges" in the github repos | 19:16 |
| fungi | oh, this would display on github? i was misreading and though this was intended to be an overlay for the cgit interface on git.openstack.org | 19:16 |
| flaper87 | It's about communicating better the status of projects, etc | 19:16 |
| ianw | flaper87: how often do we expect them to change? i see it for CI status, but not sure about at this level | 19:16 |
| clarkb | fungi: it would only work in github today aiui | 19:16 |
| clarkb | in theory cgit could be made to also render such things but it doesn't do so today | 19:16 |
| flaper87 | I would say not very often, tbh | 19:16 |
| flaper87 | clarkb: if cgit can render such things, it'd be awesome to have it do that | 19:17 |
| clarkb | flaper87: it cannot | 19:17 |
| clarkb | flaper87: you would have to modify cgit to do it iirc | 19:17 |
| flaper87 | clarkb: oh, nvm then | 19:17 |
| fungi | and this shields.io app already knows how to consume our governance tag metadata from the existing yaml file, or takes some manner of dsl to understand how to do so? | 19:17 |
| flaper87 | so, if hosting shields is a no-go, then finding a different solution would be required | 19:17 |
| flaper87 | fungi: I've a patch for that, locally | 19:17 |
| clarkb | flaper87: I am not saying its a no go, just wondering if its really the best solution for us here | 19:18 |
| flaper87 | I was waiting for this meeting to happen before doing anything else | 19:18 |
| jeblair | #link https://www.mail-archive.com/cgit@lists.zx2c4.com/msg01769.html interesting recent thread about cgit rst rendering | 19:18 |
| clarkb | since we don't really support github for such things, so adding a new service just for github shinies seems odd | 19:18 |
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| clarkb | and there are other ways we could communicate this information | 19:18 |
| fungi | flaper87: clarkb: well, the readme rendering situation with cgit is a little more nuanced than that... pleia2 came up with some options, but ultimately it's hard to decide whether/when to display the rendered readme vs the source code. ultimately we have per-repo documentation sites to serve rendered rst anyway | 19:18 |
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| fungi | and to me at least, the point of a source code browser is to show you source code, not rendered documentation content | 19:19 |
| flaper87 | Exposing these info in the docs is also on the works, fwiw. I'm looking into that | 19:19 |
| ianw | it could just as easily be included in actual documentation, rather than just README? | 19:19 |
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| clarkb | fungi: yes one of my annoyances with the rendered docs on eg github is you can't link to lines in the docs | 19:19 |
| flaper87 | fungi: right but people normally go to the git repo | 19:19 |
| flaper87 | I do understand the point but that's not the reality | 19:19 |
| flaper87 | and the goal is to make this information more evident as it's a source of confusion for many people | 19:20 |
| jeblair | clarkb: interestingly, that's effectively what the last message in that thread says :) | 19:20 |
| fungi | well, i'm saying we might benefit from coming up with a tighter integration to link git repos to their rendered documentation sites | 19:20 |
| AJaeger | flaper87: we have problems with using github API, so I'm feeling uncomfortable to push people to github. | 19:20 |
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| flaper87 | AJaeger: we're not going to use GH's API | 19:20 |
| * zaro likes that github renders readme files | 19:20 | |
| jeblair | fungi: this is the first i've heard about the "about" feature of cgit | 19:20 |
| flaper87 | AJaeger: not sure I understand that last statement | 19:21 |
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| ianw | I know we don't like periodic jobs ... but it does seem that a periodic job that could replace some template string in README's based on a YAML file might be helpful here? | 19:21 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: yeah, it's a thing | 19:21 |
| fungi | jeblair: mentioned in that ml thread i guess? i'm entirely unaware of the about feature there anyway | 19:21 |
| ianw | rather than the other way of pull the status every time from an api | 19:21 |
| flaper87 | ianw: I'd really like to avoid duplicating the info | 19:21 |
| flaper87 | if we duplicate this info, it'll encourage people to just modify it | 19:21 |
| AJaeger | flaper87: that was in reaction to github READMEs etc. | 19:21 |
| * Zara has been poking around in a cgitrc a bit today, can confirm you can get it to render markdown and things (and more advanced syntax hilighting from the looks of things) but the line numbers won't match up nicely | 19:22 | |
| flaper87 | I would like this info/badges to be pulled from some other API that reads/parses the governance site | 19:22 |
| ianw | flaper87: well you put stuff like "FOLLOWING LINE IS AUTOGENERATED DO NOT TOUCH" around it | 19:22 |
| flaper87 | ianw: that doesn't work, really. | 19:22 |
| fungi | Zara: (un?)surprisingly, github has the same issue | 19:22 |
| Zara | heh | 19:23 |
| jesusaur | is the goal to have a friendly way of displaying the governance info? or to have a way of consuming the governance info in project repos? | 19:23 |
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| ianw | i dunno, we use it quite well for stuff like devstack plugin lists | 19:23 |
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| flaper87 | jesusaur: both ? | 19:23 |
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| flaper87 | FWIW, I'm not saying shields is the best solution. It's an option though. I think clarkb's idea of just generating these images might be good as well | 19:24 |
| clarkb | flaper87: mostly I want something that will work with not github and just generating images seems like it would work everywhere | 19:24 |
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| fungi | i can completely understand the sentiment that we should avoid reimplementing a wheel which already exists, though it sounds like the shields.io wheel may be different enough from our needs/expectations to make putting together something new (and different) more desirable | 19:25 |
| jeblair | clarkb: could be used in readmes, documentation, and 'cgit about' if we figure out how to use that...? | 19:25 |
| flaper87 | clarkb: yup, I can see that working and it should not take long to generate these images when new changes land in the governance repos | 19:25 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ya at least for the rendered versions of such things | 19:25 |
| flaper87 | clarkb: jeblair exactly | 19:26 |
| jeblair | #link https://git.zx2c4.com/cgit/about/ this looks like a cgit about thingy | 19:26 |
| flaper87 | It'd show the image | 19:26 |
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| flaper87 | ok, let me explore more on the image generation path for this and I'll get back to y'all | 19:26 |
| pleia2 | it's been a couple years since I looked at it, but it requires a file in the repo and the config pointing at the specific about file | 19:26 |
| flaper87 | (after the summit, of course) | 19:27 |
| flaper87 | :D | 19:27 |
| jesusaur | could we generate static content from the governance repo into a docs site and then link to the generated static info? | 19:27 |
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| AJaeger | jesusaur: we could ;) | 19:27 |
| jesusaur | i dont know if that would be easier than using shields | 19:27 |
| fungi | #agreed The idea of having a consistent set of icons/badges displayed for various project repositories has merit, but the shields.io implementation seems to not fit a number of requirements we would have so further investigation is warranted. | 19:27 |
| AJaeger | jesusaur: a post job on governance that publishes somewhere... | 19:27 |
| jeblair | pleia2: yeah, might end up being impractical for us. but worth some brainstorming maybe | 19:27 |
| jesusaur | AJaeger: ya thats what i was thinking | 19:28 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: nods | 19:28 |
| fungi | flaper87: definitely a neat idea, thanks for bringing it up | 19:28 |
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| flaper87 | jesusaur: if we generate the badges, I'd rather just show them in the read me. We can link the docs too but, srsly, not many people click on those anyway. I want these info to be clear and evident and it doesn't sound invasive to me | 19:28 |
| flaper87 | fungi: thanks for listening, I'll dig more into the badge generation idea nad report back | 19:28 |
| flaper87 | hopefully with a script that we can just use | 19:28 |
| flaper87 | shouldn't be hard/long to do | 19:29 |
| fungi | maybe rendering the readme (and embedding the icons/badges for stuff) in the cgit about page would make sense | 19:29 |
| flaper87 | ++ | 19:29 |
| flaper87 | that's all I have for now | 19:29 |
| fungi | but yeah, lots of possibilities for brainstorming, and a limited window to discuss in today's meeting | 19:29 |
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| flaper87 | thanks everyone | 19:29 |
| fungi | thanks again, flaper87 | 19:29 |
| fungi | #topic I18n: translation checksite (ianychoi, eumel8) | 19:29 |
| * flaper87 bows and waves | 19:29 | |
| *** openstack changes topic to "I18n: translation checksite (ianychoi, eumel8) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:29 | |
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| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-October/004776.html | 19:29 |
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| eumel8 | yes | 19:30 |
| fungi | i saw the e-mail on the infra ml, but have been gone for over a week so only just read it an hour or so ago | 19:30 |
| ianychoi | yep | 19:30 |
| pleia2 | so my primary concern here is that we still don't really use Ansible for service deployments (we use Puppet for that, Ansible is just orchestrating) | 19:31 |
| eumel8 | it's a proposal to change the architecture of the upcoming translation check site from DevStack to openstack-ansible | 19:31 |
| fungi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-ansible-os_translation-checksite new openstack translation checksite for i18n team | 19:31 |
| fungi | looks relevant | 19:31 |
| pleia2 | and I'm not exactly sure how Ansible solves the problem | 19:31 |
| pleia2 | seems if we go the container route, we could make Puppet do similar things | 19:32 |
| eumel8 | it puts horizon into lxc container for better maintenance | 19:32 |
| pleia2 | but I would like other folks to chime in here | 19:32 |
| fungi | does openstack-ansible successfully deploy a single-node environment from master tip of the various projects involved? | 19:33 |
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| clarkb | I think that is how they test so yes | 19:33 |
| fungi | i gather a lot of the prior pain was related to how to do continuous deployment consistently and deal gracefully with failures when you cant | 19:33 |
| eumel8 | I think so. There is a link in the docs for All-In-One installation | 19:33 |
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| pleia2 | I see, so by using ansible we're getting away from devstack entirely | 19:34 |
| eumel8 | that's true, fungi | 19:34 |
| pleia2 | fungi: yeah, devstack breaks sometimes (heh) | 19:34 |
| eumel8 | yes, openstack-ansible is completly other code | 19:34 |
| fungi | so it's probably worth at least somewhat separating the discussion of infrastructure automation tooling from the openstack deployment tooling involved | 19:34 |
| pleia2 | ++ | 19:35 |
| fungi | in this case, ansible instead of devstack, but possibly still driven from a puppet module? | 19:35 |
| pleia2 | I was thinking that | 19:36 |
| eumel8 | mhmm, could be | 19:36 |
| pleia2 | ansible runs puppet to run ansible \o/ | 19:36 |
| AJaeger | yeah! | 19:36 |
| eumel8 | depends on the deployment mechanism of the VM | 19:36 |
| jeblair | i don't really understand how using ansible avoids the 'breaks' that were seen with devstack | 19:36 |
| ianw | I feel like if you're using ansible, devstack, or whatever to deploy and openstack environment from master, it's going to be unstable. which brings you back to the same sort of "A is working, try building B and switch it in" problem we had before? | 19:36 |
| pleia2 | ianw, jeblair, yeah, that's a fair point | 19:37 |
| pleia2 | it's not really devstack that breaks sometimes, it's master doesn't always behave the way we want for this sort of thing | 19:37 |
| ianychoi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-July/004524.html | 19:37 |
| ianychoi | According to this, #3 is one of weak points in DevStack.. Would Ansible address it? | 19:38 |
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| eumel8 | there is no experience with openstack-ansible because it's very new | 19:38 |
| ianychoi | And for #2, i18n now thinks that we may do not have once a | 19:38 |
| ianychoi | week instance | 19:38 |
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| eumel8 | but you can respawn the container when it's failed instead the whole VM | 19:39 |
| fungi | yep, part of the challenge here is that we currently either semi-manually deploy a server and then we keep it around running a fairly consistent and continuously deployed stack of software (our long-lived servers), or we automatically deploy throw-away servers with nodepool to run (relatively) brief jobs. the idea of having servers automatically deployed which conditionally replace each other in | 19:39 |
| fungi | our infrastructure is still an untrodden path and i think a lot of the challenges will be there | 19:39 |
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| eumel8 | would you use openstack-ansible in general for the infrastructure? | 19:40 |
| eumel8 | in the future? | 19:40 |
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| fungi | i guess one of the points being made is that by adding an extra layer of isolation (openstack in containers on a vm) avoids deploying entire replacement servers? | 19:41 |
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| eumel8 | yes, fungi | 19:41 |
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| AJaeger | so, what is the service expectation here from translators? A service that is always running and working - or would a downtime of a couple of days until OpenStack ansible team/project team fix problems be ok? | 19:41 |
| ianw | this also means an extra layer of things to go wrong ;) | 19:41 |
| fungi | so we would just build one check-site server, and try to deploy replacement containers on that server, and only drop the old container if teh new one works? | 19:42 |
| jeblair | deploy replacement containers on a long-lived server fits fairly well with the current long-lived server model | 19:42 |
| fungi | i also wonder how you effectively leave the previous containerized openstack running on that server while deploying and testing another one | 19:42 |
| eumel8 | AJaeger: depends on the timeframe. in the hot translation phase it's critical | 19:42 |
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| jeblair | (otoh, if we wanted to explore replacing long-lived servers, there is good ansible infrastructure around for that. we'd need to push on the automated dns project though) | 19:43 |
| fungi | jeblair: or use http redirects maybe | 19:43 |
| fungi | have a stable redirector which can be updated through automation, then no need to auto-update dns | 19:44 |
| jeblair | fungi: omg we'll just update a file in afs | 19:44 |
| * fungi gets to work reimplementing dns in afs | 19:44 | |
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| pleia2 | heh | 19:44 |
| bkero | yay custom nsswitch resolvers | 19:44 |
| fungi | (dns in afs wouldn't be far off from the old arpa hostlist which was distributed via ftp!) | 19:45 |
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| bkero | someone made one of those backed by etcd for our toy tinc vpn | 19:45 |
| clarkb | fungi: but how would you know where the afs servers are!? | 19:45 |
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| fungi | but anyway, i agree with jeblair that the containerization feature of openstack-ansible does seem like it could fit pretty well with our long-lived server concept, and avoid the challenge of updating a devstack deployment | 19:46 |
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| fungi | since it's presumably a completely from-scratch redeploy | 19:46 |
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| eumel8 | good :) | 19:47 |
| fungi | without lingering cruft you'd have to deal with attempting to replace devstack | 19:47 |
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| ianychoi | AJaeger, eumel8 yep depends on the time frame.. but I think one stable translation checksite around feature freeze, only Horizon update between soft freeze and hard stringfreeze (RC1 target), having a new stable translation checksite after RC1 will be release would be nice (I need to discuss such timeframe more with eumel8 ) | 19:47 |
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| eumel8 | ok | 19:48 |
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| jeblair | https://github.com/CentOS-PaaS-SIG/linch-pin may be an interesting project if we were to consider the replace-the-server option | 19:49 |
| fungi | i have one more topic i'm hoping to get to today, but yeah this seems like it could be a path forward (speaking specifically of the "replace devstack with openstack-ansible" part of the design... how we drive that from our infrastructure is something we'd need to flesh out separately) | 19:49 |
| crinkle | this would mean infra is deploying openstack three different ways, 1) devstack in the gate, 2) ansible for translations, 3) puppet for infracloud | 19:49 |
| fungi | yep. it does sound insane when stated that way ;) | 19:50 |
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| fungi | alternatively, infra is deploying openstack three different ways: 1) short-lived servers with nodepool, 2) on bare-metal for production environments, 3) in containers for a stateless translation check site | 19:51 |
| fungi | each of those is a use case which informs the appropriate tooling | 19:51 |
| fungi | there are efficiency and complexity trade-offs to drive them in different directions | 19:52 |
| crinkle | that's a good perspective | 19:52 |
| ianychoi | +1 | 19:52 |
| eumel8 | I think this container thing will increase in the future. There is a lot's of effort in lxc and lxd | 19:52 |
| fungi | eumel8: ianychoi: want to follow up on the infra ml thread with a summary of this and we can try to hash out where we go next? | 19:53 |
| eumel8 | yes, thanks, fungi! | 19:54 |
| ianychoi | yep also eumel8, pleia2 then for translation checksite, it seems that http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/translation_check_site.html needs to be changed with such thoughts :) | 19:54 |
| fungi | #agreed Containerized openstack may make sense as an alternative to devstack for the I18n check site deployment, so further exploration is warranted. | 19:54 |
| fungi | ianychoi: yep, that would be one of the steps | 19:55 |
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| pleia2 | ianychoi: want to start working on a change for that? | 19:55 |
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| ianychoi | eumel8, would you start with me for revising this infra-spec? | 19:56 |
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| eumel8 | yes, of course | 19:56 |
| fungi | excellent. i'm going to selfishly switch to the final topic on the agenda now since it's mine and nobody can stop me ;) thanks ianychoi and eumel8! | 19:56 |
| fungi | #topic Root sysadmin volunteer to deploy pholio server (fungi) | 19:57 |
| ianychoi | pleia2, yep I will do with eumel8 :) | 19:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Root sysadmin volunteer to deploy pholio server (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:57 | |
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| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/pholio.html | 19:57 |
| ianychoi | Thanks all! | 19:57 |
| eumel8 | thx to all | 19:57 |
| fungi | per craige, the automation for this is basically all merged (thanks for working through all that, craige!) | 19:57 |
| fungi | i would _love_ to see this turned up very soon, as i'm sure would piet and the rest of the ui/ux team | 19:57 |
| fungi | any infra-root admins interested in taking up the task of attempting to deploy it? | 19:57 |
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| pleia2 | I'm too snowed under with prep for summit, sorry | 19:57 |
| fungi | and maybe hashing out fixes for any minor issues encountered along teh way? | 19:57 |
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| clarkb | pleia2: same here | 19:58 |
| fungi | pleia2: yep, you've gotta stop volunteering for everything ;) | 19:58 |
| pleia2 | haha | 19:58 |
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| ianw | i know little about it, but I think craige and i are in the same tz? | 19:58 |
| clarkb | ianw: closer together than the rest of us at least | 19:59 |
| fungi | ianw: yep, he said he's around at least via e-mail if not irc to help with the handoff to this part of the task | 19:59 |
| ianw | well i can read up and correspond with him | 19:59 |
| fungi | if you're able, give it a shot and ask for help as needed | 19:59 |
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| fungi | i'm happy to try to back you up on it too, though of course timezones are a thing | 20:00 |
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| fungi | #action ianw work on deploying a pholio server | 20:00 |
| fungi | thanks! | 20:00 |
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| ianw | cool | 20:00 |
| fungi | we're out of time--thanks everyone! | 20:00 |
| stevemar | o/ | 20:00 |
| fungi | see some of you _very_ soon! | 20:00 |
| fungi | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 18 20:00:53 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-10-18-19.02.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-10-18-19.02.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-10-18-19.02.log.html | 20:00 |
| ttx | OK, let's see if we can have quorum today | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:01 |
| * fungi quorums | 20:01 | |
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| ttx | dhellmann, dtroyer, johnthetubaguy, mordred, sdague, thingee: around ? | 20:01 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:01 |
| dtroyer | o/ modulo airport wifi | 20:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:01 |
| stevemar | i love quoruming | 20:01 |
| ttx | dims, mtreinish, EmilienM are excused | 20:01 |
| thingee | o/ | 20:01 |
| piet_ | o/ | 20:01 |
| Rockyg | or is it quoraing? | 20:01 |
| ttx | looks like we quorumed | 20:01 |
| stevemar | \o/ | 20:01 |
| Rockyg | plural of quorum being quora.... | 20:01 |
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| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 18 20:02:02 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| amrith | ./ | 20:02 |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:02 |
| ttx | Hi everyone, | 20:02 |
| * edleafe lurks in the back of the room | 20:02 | |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | hello | 20:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | o/ | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
| ttx | (remember to use #info #idea and #link liberally to make for a more readable summary) | 20:02 |
| * stevemar drags edleafe up to the front | 20:02 | |
| ttx | #topic Finalized BoD/TC/UC meeting agenda | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Finalized BoD/TC/UC meeting agenda (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
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| ttx | So I communicated our ideas to Alan and he came up with an agenda that should cover most of our points | 20:03 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:03 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Foundation/24Oct2016BoardMeeting#Joint_Board.2FTC.2FUser_Committee_Meeting_.28DRAFT.29 | 20:03 |
| ttx | let me know if you have comments | 20:03 |
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| ttx | Note that the "Incubating New Concepts and Projects" point (proposed by Board members) is a bit of a misnomer. | 20:03 |
| ttx | I expect it to be about our criteria for approving projects | 20:03 |
| ttx | - the "Mission" fit, and how far it can go | 20:04 |
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| ttx | - the "Community" fit, and the cost of [not] supporting additional languages | 20:04 |
| * flaper87 wonders what "Incubating New Concepts and Projects" is | 20:04 | |
| flaper87 | guess we'll find out | 20:04 |
| mordred | I'm SOOOOO looking forward to that section | 20:04 |
| dtroyer | heh, it Imad | 20:04 |
| ttx | mordred: inorite | 20:04 |
| mordred | I will try my best to not get kicked out of the room for violating the code of conduct | 20:04 |
| ttx | I managed to put it at the end, so maybe we could start drinkikng at the same time | 20:05 |
| sdague | mordred: don't try too hard | 20:05 |
| mordred | sdague: :) | 20:05 |
| stevemar | :) | 20:05 |
| ttx | I hope we can keep it civil and mostly around explaining our current decision on Go and how we expect to make progress in the future | 20:05 |
| fungi | mordred can be the off-the-chain element so that the rest of us seem comparatively rational | 20:05 |
| mordred | ttx: I actually .... | 20:05 |
| ttx | but yes, could end up being pretty heated :) | 20:05 |
| mordred | ttx: honestly, I reject the premise that we need to explain our current decision on go | 20:06 |
| amrith | ttx, I'm wondering about the item "Upstream developer investment". Is that being led by the TC or the Board or the UC? | 20:06 |
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| mordred | any more than we expect the board to explain decisions it makes on trademark policy | 20:06 |
| ttx | we don't need to justify it, but explaining it sounds good to me | 20:06 |
| mordred | ttx: sure. but I would like to make sure we keep i mind that explaining is what we're doing, not justifying | 20:06 |
| ttx | amrith: it's coming from us, but the title is alan's | 20:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | explaining why we think its hard would be no bad thing | 20:06 |
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| flaper87 | TBH, I don't mind to talk about it but, if we need to *explain* it, then we might have done a poor job communicating the decision properly | 20:07 |
| amrith | ttx, thx. as in the past, I'm assuming that this is an open meeting (open to non TC/Board/UC), yes? | 20:07 |
| ttx | yes | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | I'd expect the same message to the dev community to be useful for the board | 20:07 |
| amrith | thx | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | flaper87: a lot of people heard "no" and stopped listening at "because..." | 20:07 |
| fungi | amrith: concerns over loss of large blocks of upstream contributors as some of our member companies shift directions and scale back their involvement/use of openstack | 20:07 |
| ttx | dhellmann: exactly | 20:07 |
| amrith | fungi, you are describing my day-to-day | 20:07 |
| fungi | :/ | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: right, I would expect some people not to stop there | 20:07 |
| ttx | dhellmann: a lot of people heard "no" when we said "no, not now and not this way" | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yes, that, too | 20:08 |
| * johnthetubaguy nods at ttx | 20:08 | |
| flaper87 | That being said, (over-)communicating won't get rid of surprises entirely and surprises are not always a sign of lack of transparency | 20:08 |
| dtroyer | fwiw, some have had it explained to them many times since then | 20:08 |
| ttx | Another topic I raised (and which was accepted on the agenda) is how we approach the programming of the “forum” for Boston and beyond. | 20:08 |
| flaper87 | anyway, like I said, I don't mind us talking about it. I do want us to reflect if something went wrong on how we communicated this | 20:09 |
| ttx | To make that event successful we need to make sure all of the facets of our community participate in proposing (and selecting) the topics we'll discuss there | 20:09 |
| ttx | so it's a good cross-community topic (UC+TC) | 20:09 |
| stevemar | ttx: that came up today in the keystone meeting, folks were wondering what the forums will look like | 20:09 |
| ttx | It's a tight agenda | 20:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | true, we need UC help there | 20:09 |
| ttx | stevemar: they will look like a lot like cross-project workshops, ops fishbowls and other town halls we had in the past | 20:10 |
| ttx | stevemar: happy to give people more explanation, but maybe off-meeting | 20:10 |
| stevemar | ++ | 20:10 |
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| ttx | Any other comment on the BoD+TC+UC agenda ? | 20:11 |
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| dhellmann | it does look tight, but all of the topics look good this time | 20:11 |
| ttx | ok, moving on then | 20:12 |
| ttx | #topic Add more ways to get extra-atcs into the books | 20:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add more ways to get extra-atcs into the books (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:12 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/381894 | 20:12 |
| ttx | So in the reviews there seems to be two ways of looking at this one | 20:12 |
| ttx | 1/ Ops feedback is an upstream contribution, so AUCs should be considered extra-atcs and vote in the TC election | 20:12 |
| ttx | 2/ Solution is to set up proper elections around the UC to give that body more influence, so this change is a distraction that would likely delay efforts for proper recognition of users for what they are | 20:12 |
| ttx | Both are valid imho, so I'd like us to think a bit more about it | 20:13 |
| ttx | We'll discuss in-person the UC charter at the BoD+TC+UC meeting, so I think it will be a great venue to make progress on that question | 20:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | honestly, it feels like the end goal might be both | 20:13 |
| ttx | And discuss if it's better to (1) have TC and UC constituency overlapping, but distinct; or (2) have both consituencies voting in both elections (ATC vote for UC and AUC vote for TC) | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | based on earlier discussions about extra-atcs, I've added "reminder" notes to the release process to be sent out at different times in the countdown emails that I send for the release team | 20:13 |
| ttx | or (3) some other creative solution | 20:13 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: yeh, it just feels like 2 should go first | 20:13 |
| dtroyer | ttx, did I understand your comment about the timeframe for the UC to be 6months or so? -ish? | 20:13 |
| ttx | Personally I like to keep constituencies aligned with the area the body oversees, so I lean toward (1) | 20:14 |
| ttx | dtroyer: it might actually get even faster | 20:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: yeah, it feels like we violate our principals if not | 20:14 |
| ttx | the board might vote on bylaws amendment before end of year | 20:14 |
| sdague | ttx: are AUCs already being accumulated and listed somewhere? | 20:14 |
| ttx | for elections early January | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | ttx: what sort of things are you thinking when you say "give that body more influence"? | 20:14 |
| ttx | sdague: I don't thnk they finalized the criteria, it's part of their charter they want to present at the meeting | 20:14 |
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| thingee | I agree with sdague's last comment that I'd like to see that first as well. | 20:15 |
| fungi | it's worth noting that auc covers a lot more types of contribution than people may be realizing. for example, writing an article for superuser magazine, being a track chair for the conference, answering questions on ask.o.o... | 20:15 |
| dtroyer | yeah, if the timeframe isn't long, agreed on #2 first | 20:15 |
| thingee | dtroyer: +1 | 20:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | I love the idea of everyone voting in both elections, on the grounds of us all needing to work closely together, but that might be going too far too quickly | 20:15 |
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| johnthetubaguy | everyone = AUC + ATC | 20:15 |
| fungi | it's not entirely clear to me that all of the things which make someone eligible as an auc make sense for the tc electorate | 20:15 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I think it's better if the UC has legitimacy built from elections, rather than start counting how many AUCs there are vs. ATCs | 20:16 |
| ttx | Also I like the suggestion of having a representative from the other committss sitting | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ok, that makes sense | 20:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | our principals do suggest the need for electing a UC | 20:16 |
| flaper87 | ttx: yeah | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | fungi : yes, I tend to agree | 20:16 |
| ttx | like UC appointing one member to the TC and the other way around | 20:16 |
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| stevemar | fungi: agreed, and vice versa | 20:16 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | appointing a representative is a nice alternative | 20:16 |
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| ttx | otherwise it's like, the moment there are 51% AUC in the electorate we get ops, and at 49% we don't | 20:17 |
| ttx | I prefer to guarantee some representation | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | yes, good point | 20:17 |
| ttx | and mend the gap by having people sitting on both sides | 20:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: hmm, true | 20:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | sounds like a good starting point | 20:18 |
| ttx | so I think it's urgent to wait for the meeting and see how fast that elected UC can be set up | 20:18 |
| sdague | honestly, I would be careful trying to build a complex model instead of just making more forums to talk to each other | 20:18 |
| ttx | happy to discuss this more in-person next week | 20:18 |
| flaper87 | ++ | 20:18 |
| * mordred wants to also remind everyone that UC !== ops because users != operators | 20:18 | |
| Rockyg | ++ | 20:18 |
| mordred | there are at least 2 different sets of under-represented users, ops are one | 20:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: more forums? do you have an example? is that the new "forum" thingy? | 20:19 |
| ttx | mordred: how much does the AUC criteria care for end users, though | 20:19 |
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| sdague | johnthetubaguy: no, I just mean in general | 20:19 |
| mordred | ttx: I do not know how much it cares for end users now - but hopefully it will be working towards caring about them | 20:19 |
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| Rockyg | ttx: pretty good representation beyond Ops | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I've always associated the UC with "people who run openstack" not just people on the other side of an openstack API | 20:19 |
| mordred | otherwise I will need to suggest we call it the operator committee | 20:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: OK, cool, +1 that, I am just struggling to work out how to make that happen | 20:19 |
| sdague | some times it looks like we can build a complicated process or governance thing to replace spending time getting to know each other and listen | 20:19 |
| ttx | ack | 20:19 |
| sdague | and... I think it works poorly :) | 20:20 |
| mordred | I am on a mission to remind people that API users are users | 20:20 |
| stevemar | sdague: bad timing to use the word "forum" :P | 20:20 |
| sdague | stevemar: yes | 20:20 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sdague: yeah, thats certainly a thing we have a tendency towards | 20:20 |
| flaper87 | mordred: might be the case... (re name) | 20:20 |
| stevemar | "channels/venues for communication" | 20:20 |
| mordred | but - we'll be in the room with the UC next week - so we can chat about it :) | 20:20 |
| sdague | mordred: maybe that's another reason to get the UC going on direct election first and make sure it's getting the right mix there | 20:20 |
| ttx | ok, everyone agrees to defer the decision on that one to at least after that BoD+TC+UC meeting ? | 20:20 |
| mordred | ttx: ++ | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 20:20 |
| flaper87 | oh yeah | 20:20 |
| mordred | sdague: ++ | 20:20 |
| sdague | ttx: ++ | 20:20 |
| thingee | ++ | 20:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | ++ | 20:21 |
| dtroyer | ++ | 20:21 |
| fungi | sounds good | 20:21 |
| stevemar | ++ | 20:21 |
| ttx | #agreed let's defer the decision on this one until after the UC presents its charter to the BoD+TC+UC meeting next week | 20:21 |
| ttx | moving on to next topic | 20:21 |
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| ttx | #topic Add "Contributing Is Our Currency" to principles doc | 20:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add "Contributing Is Our Currency" to principles doc (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:21 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/382110 | 20:21 |
| ttx | Looks like this one is close enough to be merged now | 20:22 |
| ttx | There is a follow-up tweak from cdent @ | 20:22 |
| stevemar | ++, its been through enough word smithing (and the follow-on patch) | 20:22 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/387370 | 20:22 |
| ttx | which we'll consider at the next meeting (also would very much like to have mtreinish's opinion on it) | 20:22 |
| cdent | yeah, I stripped it down to its bare essence | 20:22 |
| flaper87 | ttx: can we start merging mtreinish's ? | 20:22 |
| ttx | Objections to getting the initial one merged now ? | 20:22 |
| cdent | I hope people saw the comment I left on patchset one, I'm increasingly concerned about that | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | cdent : ps1 of which? | 20:23 |
| ttx | 387370 | 20:23 |
| cdent | dhellmann: my follow up | 20:23 |
| ttx | "While working on this it made think of something I've been very concerned about in a lot of 'do-ocracy' style communities: If contribution is cast as "fixing problems" then being overly zealous about 'do-ocracy' can have a negative impact on people being wiling to "identify problems" (aka "complain about stuff that doesn't work well") because they will be expected to fix it at that point, even if | 20:23 |
| ttx | they don't know how or don't have time. I've both witnessed and experienced this in OpenStack." | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | ah, yes | 20:23 |
| * ttx merges initial version unless someone screams | 20:24 | |
| flaper87 | ttx: what if I scream "YES, MERGE IT" ? | 20:24 |
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| ttx | flaper87: that will make me pause and merge it | 20:24 |
| flaper87 | oh ok | 20:24 |
| * flaper87 takes note | 20:24 | |
| fungi | and elicit offers to help you fix your caps-lock key | 20:24 |
| * mordred likes the cdent followup- wants to bikeshed over 'anyone' vs. 'everyone' | 20:24 | |
| ttx | ok, it's in | 20:24 |
| stevemar | cdent: we can add something that encourages folks to still identify problems? | 20:24 |
| cdent | mordred++ | 20:25 |
| sdague | I think the point of this is there were 3 sections about voting in the priciples before, and 0 sections about contributing | 20:25 |
| flaper87 | fungi: but it's a scream :P | 20:25 |
| flaper87 | sdague: ++ | 20:25 |
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| dhellmann | I'm not sure about removing the sentence about hierarchy from cdent's follow-up. We see that frequently, folks joining the community and trying to push change through the TC or PTLs instead of allocating resources and doing work. | 20:26 |
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| mordred | I would also love to how to communicate "we value identifying problems, but also you can't possibly get upset if your issues don't get immediately addressed if you aren't providing resources to address them" without being negative | 20:26 |
| mordred | dhellmann: we may have just said the same thing | 20:26 |
| mordred | although dhellmann said it nicer, as might be expected | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | mordred : I think so, yes | 20:26 |
| ttx | dhellmann: yeah, I don't think that this sentence is redundant at all | 20:26 |
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| sdague | and while I do get the concern that when there is an imbalance of reporting vs. fixing problems we run into friction, I'm not sure any set of words make that go away | 20:26 |
| stevemar | mordred: i like that one | 20:26 |
| * flaper87 agrees with dhellmann therefore he agrees with mordred (on that last sentence) | 20:26 | |
| flaper87 | sdague: agreed, I think comon sense comes into play there | 20:27 |
| EmilienM | (hi, just landed) | 20:27 |
| mordred | although I agree with sdague | 20:27 |
| cdent | part of the reason I remove the hierarchy sentence was because it was so twisted and strained that I couldn't think of a good way to put it, so I just dropped it | 20:27 |
| edleafe | dhellmann: it's tricky. Sometimes they do the work, and then get told "that's not how we want to go". | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | maybe we can add something about there being a lot of different ways to contribute, to address the concern about do-ocracy? | 20:27 |
| mordred | cdent: yah. like, I like the way your thing reads, and although I have my concern, I think sdague makes a good point | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | edleafe : yeah, that's a completely different problem | 20:28 |
| ttx | ok, let's do a few other review rounds on cdent's tweak | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | edleafe : or, well, related but not identical | 20:28 |
| ttx | and move on to the next agenda item | 20:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | cdent: coming to talk constructively with the community about the problem, and helping write it down counts as doing, but maybe I am stretching that too far? | 20:28 |
| fungi | edleafe: the challenge there being that part of "doing the work" means making it acceptable to the rest of the community | 20:28 |
| mordred | which is that the c-suite folks who expect everyone else to fix their problems without doing anything themselves aren't going to read this in the first place | 20:28 |
| edleafe | dhellmann: yup | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | johnthetubaguy: I don't think there's a magic formula for that | 20:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I am +1 sdague's comment on that | 20:28 |
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| sdague | and also realizing we are all humans with finite bandwidth, and sometimes people don't fully understand the ramifications of things from early sketches | 20:28 |
| mordred | yah. also, sometimes your idea is bad | 20:28 |
| mordred | and the rest of the community will tell you that | 20:29 |
| mordred | and it doesn't make you a bad person | 20:29 |
| stevemar | IMO the sentence removed in 387370 just explains our structure, that's not the same as 'hey i found an issue, but don't have the technical skill to fix the code', filing a bug is still helpful | 20:29 |
| fungi | (my ideas are often bad, and i'm glad people tell me) | 20:29 |
| mordred | fungi: same here! | 20:29 |
| mordred | it's like the definition of most of my days | 20:29 |
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| johnthetubaguy | fungi: FWIW, thats totally why I love OpenStack | 20:29 |
| ttx | ok, let's iterate on the review rather than try to paint it blue right now | 20:29 |
| stevemar | okie | 20:30 |
| mordred | ttx: I WANT GREEN | 20:30 |
| ttx | moving on | 20:30 |
| * cdent suspects edleafe will want red | 20:30 | |
| ttx | #topic Adjust TC and PTL election timeframes | 20:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adjust TC and PTL election timeframes (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:30 | |
| ttx | mordred: I know | 20:30 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/385951 | 20:30 |
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| ttx | So the proposal seems to be pretty popular | 20:30 |
| ttx | That changes | 20:30 |
| edleafe | cdent: it's the only sane choice, really | 20:30 |
| ttx | notmyname raises an interesting point though -- do we need buy-in from current PTLs on it ? | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | yes, I think so | 20:31 |
| ttx | On one hand they are affected by the decision, and it can't really hurt | 20:31 |
| ttx | On the other hand it's /very/ unlikely that we'll get all PTLs to signoff on this | 20:31 |
| * dims peeks | 20:31 | |
| dhellmann | it would have been better to do this before the election, but the timing didn't work out | 20:31 |
| ttx | (I mean, I can't even get them to all fill their design summit schedule) | 20:31 |
| ttx | A thread was raised on the ML, but only a few PTLs chimed in on the review as a result | 20:31 |
| mugsie | Yes. Or at least push it out to them, and say this is going to be merged in x days | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I don't think they need to agree, but they need to acknowledge the change | 20:31 |
| flaper87 | +1 for acknowledging | 20:31 |
| sdague | acknowledgement would be good | 20:31 |
| ttx | mugsie: so... wait a bit more to gather more PTL +1s, but mention a hard deadline | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | or be given a chance to acknowledge | 20:31 |
| mugsie | Yea | 20:32 |
| ttx | sounds good to me | 20:32 |
| stevemar | ttx: set a deadline? say something now or forever hold your peace? | 20:32 |
| thingee | dev ml announcement / dev digest I think covers us | 20:32 |
| mordred | stevemar: ++ | 20:32 |
| flaper87 | thingee: TBH, I'd even push it to their inboxes | 20:32 |
| edleafe | But what if they claim the whole thing is rigged? | 20:32 |
| stevemar | flaper87: that would be good too | 20:32 |
| mordred | edleafe: let's not go there | 20:32 |
| edleafe | :) | 20:32 |
| ttx | so I'll reply to the ML thread mentioning that we'll pass it and that they should raise now if they object | 20:32 |
| sdague | honestly, having a straw poll of them would be good. If we could hit them directly and ask them to weigh in | 20:32 |
| stevemar | :) | 20:32 |
| EmilienM | flaper87: right, what ttx does most of the time | 20:32 |
| EmilienM | flaper87: and even with that, iiuc, some ptls still don't ack | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | ttx: would Nov 8 be a good deadline? | 20:33 |
| sdague | because, I honestly think most people thought this is how it would be | 20:33 |
| ttx | EmilienM: sadly yes | 20:33 |
| flaper87 | EmilienM: yup :( | 20:33 |
| ttx | dhellmann: or Nov 1st if we think we can have a meeting then | 20:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: +1 I think most did | 20:33 |
| flaper87 | Again Surprise != lack of transparency/communication | 20:33 |
| mordred | zomg. I want to jump out from behind things and yell Surprise at people all next week | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | ttx: if we can get feedback by then, I'd be ok with the 1st, but the 8th gives PTLs time to catch up on the mailing list after summit | 20:34 |
| mordred | and then follow up with a really obscure TC governance factoid | 20:34 |
| flaper87 | ttx: I'd prolly go with the 8th, just to give ppl time after the summit | 20:34 |
| dtroyer | I don't think waiting a week will hurt us | 20:34 |
| ttx | #action ttx to reply to thread mentioning a hard deadline and asking PTLs to +1 | 20:34 |
| EmilienM | +1 on 8th, it's a fair deadline regarding scheduling | 20:34 |
| edleafe | flaper87: not always. You can lead a horse to water... | 20:34 |
| stevemar | dhellmann: yeah, we have some runway here | 20:34 |
| ttx | #agreed deadline should be TC meetign on NOv 8 | 20:34 |
| * bswartz thinks PTLs should be elected for life... | 20:34 | |
| mugsie | I would actually be ok with the first, but just giving a hard deadline helps getting people to do stuff | 20:34 |
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| mugsie | bswartz: obviously | 20:34 |
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| fungi | bswartz: a lifetime term would drive me to an early grave, so we still might have just as much ptl turnover as we do now ;) | 20:35 |
| ttx | ok that sounds like a plan | 20:35 |
| dhellmann | fungi : I was thinking something similar. "Stepping down" would take on a whole new meaning. | 20:35 |
| ttx | anything else on that topic ? | 20:35 |
| mordred | have we had an instance of a sitting PTL losing to a challenger? | 20:35 |
| ttx | dhellmann: hard to do it gracefully then | 20:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | fungi: yeah, surprisingly equivalent I suspect | 20:35 |
| dhellmann | ttx: quite | 20:36 |
| ttx | mordred: yes | 20:36 |
| mordred | ttx: neat! | 20:36 |
| edleafe | mordred: mikal lost to johnthetubaguy | 20:36 |
| sdague | mordred: yes | 20:36 |
| fungi | mordred: neutron at least | 20:36 |
| fungi | oh, right, so nova too | 20:36 |
| ttx | and magnum | 20:36 |
| mordred | that's excellent. I had forgotten both of those | 20:36 |
| ttx | it happens | 20:36 |
| sdague | ironic too iirc | 20:36 |
| edleafe | and I think devananda lost to jroll | 20:36 |
| mordred | so tons of them and I'm just dense :) | 20:36 |
| ttx | adrian lost to Hongbin in magnum | 20:37 |
| fungi | so it's actually a tradition | 20:37 |
| stevemar | so what we're saying is, it's happened :) | 20:37 |
| edleafe | mordred: yes, that :) | 20:37 |
| mordred | \o/ | 20:37 |
| flaper87 | and Glance | 20:37 |
| sdague | mordred: it's not a huge percentage, but it has happened | 20:37 |
| ttx | sdague: given the number of elections we had (not so many), it's actually significant | 20:37 |
| edleafe | But has an incumbent TC member lost re-election | 20:37 |
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| * edleafe stirs up the pot | 20:37 | |
| sdague | edleafe: yes | 20:37 |
| dtroyer | ed, yes, a couple of times | 20:37 |
| mordred | I lost to jaypipes back in the PPB days | 20:37 |
| stevemar | thats true, many more win-by-default than actual elections every 6 months | 20:37 |
| edleafe | ok, good to know | 20:38 |
| ttx | looks like we are in open discussion already | 20:38 |
| stevemar | :) | 20:38 |
| amrith | mordred, PPB was smaller | 20:38 |
| * ttx officializes | 20:38 | |
| edleafe | ttx: sorry, my bad | 20:38 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:38 | |
| stevemar | lets get the train back on track? | 20:38 |
| amrith | I did download all the old data and was looking at this and voting trends. | 20:38 |
| amrith | surprising blocks :) | 20:38 |
| stevemar | ttx: what about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/365590/ ? | 20:38 |
| mordred | amrith: the blocks are fun :) | 20:38 |
| fungi | amrith: any specific insights? | 20:38 |
| mordred | amrith: if you REALLY want fun - go read the old PPB meetings in the IRC logs | 20:39 |
| ttx | amrith: were there ? My partisan analysis could not detect that many | 20:39 |
| mordred | the ones from year one are _fascinating_ and also make you want to remove your own leg and beat yourself with it | 20:39 |
| ttx | amrith: I detected a Cinder voting block and an Infra voting block | 20:39 |
| fungi | i'm always really interested in our project-wide voting trends, but lack the bandwidth to do real analysis | 20:39 |
| sdague | mordred: you and I have a different definition of fun :) | 20:39 |
| amrith | fungi, was going to write a blog post about the surprising number of votes with one 1 and a number of 21's ... | 20:39 |
| amrith | in this past election. | 20:39 |
| fungi | amrith: i would read ;) | 20:39 |
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| amrith | fungi, I am writing | 20:39 |
| mordred | amrith: those don't do quite what people think they do | 20:39 |
| mugsie | Well, there is the lack of elected people who came from a project that didn't spin out of nova | 20:39 |
| mordred | mugsie: not true | 20:40 |
| mugsie | Oh? | 20:40 |
| mugsie | I couldn't find any | 20:40 |
| stevemar | ttx: any change on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/384317/ getting punted through? it's a typo type fix | 20:40 |
| mordred | mugsie: ttx, me, fungi | 20:40 |
| ttx | mordred: release management has 3 members | 20:40 |
| ttx | dhellmann arguably did not come from nova either | 20:40 |
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| mordred | yah. dhellman. flaper87 depending on whether we associate him with zaqar or glance | 20:40 |
| ttx | same for EmilienM | 20:40 |
| mordred | yup | 20:41 |
| stevemar | mordred: me and EmilienM too | 20:41 |
| dtroyer | depends if ' came from' == 'has >1commit to' | 20:41 |
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| mordred | dtroyer: :) | 20:41 |
| flaper87 | I don't think I have commits on nova... | 20:41 |
| ttx | heck, I have more commits in Swift than in Nova | 20:41 |
| flaper87 | oh I do | 20:41 |
| mordred | mugsie: in fact, really, most of the TC does not descend from nova | 20:41 |
| flaper87 | nvm | 20:41 |
| flaper87 | but yeah | 20:41 |
| flaper87 | what mordred said | 20:41 |
| ttx | mugsie: what made you think that ? | 20:41 |
| amrith | for the record; I got a bad microphone and I lost because the election was rigged. I'm not saying that, that's what others are saying. | 20:41 |
| * flaper87 doesn't descend from nova | 20:41 | |
| dhellmann | oh, yeah, I probably have a bunch of release or oslo-related commits to nova over the past few years, but I don't consider myself a "nova contributor" | 20:41 |
| ttx | interesting myths | 20:42 |
| stevemar | amrith: :) | 20:42 |
| cdent | mugsie said project that spun out of nova | 20:42 |
| cdent | not from nova | 20:42 |
| mugsie | Projects spun out of Nova ;) | 20:42 |
| cdent | jinx | 20:42 |
| cdent | :) | 20:42 |
| mugsie | Hah | 20:42 |
| ttx | We'll obviously be skipping the online IRC TC meeting next week | 20:42 |
| mugsie | Sorry, it's cross project or not spun out of Nova | 20:42 |
| ttx | mordred: what news re: TC dinner night in Barcelona ? | 20:42 |
| mordred | ttx: still planning on having one | 20:42 |
| mordred | I should get a head count - so I'll send out an email and stuff | 20:43 |
| ttx | mugsie: true. Cross-project work definitely gives you a lift for TC, but I would argue that's fair | 20:43 |
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| ttx | since the TC is actually about openstack as a whole | 20:43 |
| mugsie | ttx: oh, I agree | 20:43 |
| fungi | mugsie: i sprung fully formed from zeus's forehead | 20:43 |
| mugsie | But is it interesting non the less | 20:43 |
| ttx | fungi: I thought you came from a spore | 20:43 |
| fungi | touché | 20:43 |
| jeblair | fungi: from zuul's forehead? | 20:43 |
| edleafe | ttx: ha! | 20:43 |
| amrith | :) | 20:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | Nova is surprisingly cross project-ey in nature | 20:43 |
| clarkb | I think ttx wins | 20:44 |
| fungi | jeblair: if only | 20:44 |
| amrith | edleafe, good question. | 20:44 |
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| ttx | mordred: I checked, Tickets is all booked | 20:44 |
| ttx | :) | 20:44 |
| flaper87 | mordred: I'm in | 20:44 |
| notmyname | is cross-project defined as a particular set of code repos or simply "work that involves more than one project"? | 20:44 |
| mordred | ttx: yah. also, I was aiming for lower-key than that :) | 20:44 |
| mordred | notmyname: work that is focused on the aggregate whole rather than a specific subset | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | mordred : my only request is not friday, since I have a friday flight | 20:45 |
| mordred | dhellmann: yah - thursday is when we're aiming for | 20:45 |
| flaper87 | notmyname: I'd say projects that impact the community horizontally (?) | 20:45 |
| ttx | mordred: Disfrutar has some kitchen staff from El Bulli, but not low-key at all | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | mordred : ++ | 20:45 |
| flaper87 | mordred: thursday should work | 20:45 |
| fungi | sometimes work on a particular library or tool that is used by many projects could be cross-project work on a single repo | 20:45 |
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| fungi | though more often there are corresponding changes in those projects to implement as well | 20:46 |
| mugsie | notmyname: I don't really have a definition, just looking at a project or repo and saying that it looks cross project | 20:46 |
| ttx | mordred: thursday ok but not too early (but then any decent catalan place would not serve before 9) | 20:46 |
| Rockyg | Guys, wanted to toss some UX info your way so you can chew on it before the summit....https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8h-c0zHxYBoXzFMQWJsY09Eclk/view?usp=sharing | 20:47 |
| ttx | notmyname: my definition is cross-project = work that affect most projects, while inter-project = work that affect multiple projects | 20:47 |
| ttx | (terminology courtesy of ildiko actually, to give credit where due) | 20:48 |
| notmyname | ttx: ah. "inter-project". interesting | 20:48 |
| ttx | like Nova-Cinder work, or Swift-Storlets | 20:48 |
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| ttx | ok, sounds like we can wrap up early | 20:49 |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 20:49 |
| fungi | Rockyg: thanks for the heads up! | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | I'm looking forward to seeing everyone again next week | 20:49 |
| EmilienM | Rockyg: interesting document, thanks | 20:49 |
| amrith | safe travels everyone | 20:49 |
| stevemar | will be great to see everyone | 20:50 |
| * dtroyer is heading there now, will be sure to not drink all the wine… | 20:50 | |
| ttx | dhellmann: not "everyone" but "a lot" | 20:50 |
| * EmilienM at airport now | 20:50 | |
| amrith | dtroyer, if they get low on wine, just text me ... I'll bring some. | 20:50 |
| fungi | yes, it's worth remembering there are a lot active participants in the community who will be missing this one than we've seen in the past for various reasons | 20:50 |
| Rockyg | Your welcome. But piet_ is the one to thank ;) | 20:50 |
| * edleafe knows that ttx had me in mind | 20:50 | |
| dhellmann | ttx: fair :-) | 20:51 |
| flaper87 | safe travels everyone! | 20:51 |
| ttx | alright, see you all in not-so-warm Barcelona | 20:51 |
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| * flaper87 is happy that he's been long enough in this TZ to adapt already | 20:51 | |
| EmilienM | see you folks | 20:51 |
| * dtroyer shivers | 20:51 | |
| * stevemar waves by at EmilienM from a few kilometers away | 20:52 | |
| fungi | (forecast says hawaiian shirts and shorts for me) | 20:52 |
| stevemar | bye* | 20:52 |
| EmilienM | stevemar: :'( | 20:52 |
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| ttx | Oh, I spotted a beach bar like 5 min from the summit venue | 20:52 |
| EmilienM | fungi: ahah, not surprised ;-) | 20:52 |
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| ttx | https://goo.gl/maps/kdNvrKQt8NS2 | 20:52 |
| thingee | ciao | 20:52 |
| fungi | bookmarked | 20:52 |
| ttx | http://www.panteagroup.es/en/chiringuito-gastronomico-bambu-beach-bar/ | 20:53 |
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| ttx | on those good words | 20:53 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 20:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:53 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 18 20:53:30 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:53 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-10-18-20.02.html | 20:53 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-10-18-20.02.txt | 20:53 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-10-18-20.02.log.html | 20:53 |
| EmilienM | ttx: o/ thx for chairing | 20:53 |
| ttx | Safe travels! | 20:53 |
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