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| anteaya | my fault, I missed the third party meeting, I apologize | 11:19 |
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| anteaya | not sure if my alarm didn't go off or if I slept through it | 11:20 |
| anteaya | so sorry | 11:20 |
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| * johnthetubaguy sips his coffee | 12:02 | |
| bauzas | haha, I'm not late this time ! | 12:02 |
| * edleafe gulps his | 12:03 | |
| bauzas | IIRC, alex_xu was on holidays | 12:03 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I think sdague said he would do the honours today | 12:03 |
| edleafe | yeah, that's why I thought we might have canceled it | 12:03 |
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| bauzas | that's the golden week | 12:03 |
| bauzas | http://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/china/ | 12:03 |
| sdague | oh, hey, yep lost track of time | 12:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | lots of docs stuff to keep pushing forward | 12:03 |
| sdague | #startmeeting nova-api | 12:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 6 12:04:07 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sdague. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 12:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 12:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova-api)" | 12:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_api' | 12:04 |
| edleafe | \o | 12:04 |
| sdague | hey there, who's here for the nova-api meeting? | 12:04 |
| gmann_ | o/ | 12:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | o/ | 12:04 |
| bauzas | ~o~ | 12:04 |
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| sdague | the agenda for today - https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NovaAPI | 12:05 |
| sdague | #topic action items from last week | 12:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "action items from last week (Meeting topic: nova-api)" | 12:05 | |
| sdague | there were 2 for alex_xu, who is out, and 1 for johnthetubaguy | 12:05 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy take a look at more about doc unification | 12:06 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: how did that go? | 12:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I have a bit of update here | 12:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | the docs folks seem to have done most of the work for us, which is cool | 12:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/229546/ | 12:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | thats the API reference bit, combining the v2.0 and v2.1 and v2.0 extenions | 12:06 |
| sdague | nice, | 12:07 |
| * sdague stars that for later review | 12:07 | |
| johnthetubaguy | reviews welcome there, I am sure - I suspect there needs to be some work on the checklinks and the other things, to get that finished off though | 12:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | so there is also a related bit... | 12:07 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so we need to the the API concept guide published somewhere, official | 12:07 |
| sdague | instead of in the devref | 12:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | annegentle has done some heavy lifting there | 12:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/226253/7 | 12:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: yeah | 12:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | actually, its the follow on patch | 12:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/230186/4 | 12:08 |
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| sdague | ok, more things starred to review | 12:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, some progress there | 12:08 |
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| johnthetubaguy | honestly, would love someone to take that on and keep pushing, its proving tricky with RC2 and spec mountain | 12:09 |
| gmann_ | we will have concept guide also on api-site ? | 12:09 |
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| sdague | there needs to be an actual project-config change for publish as well, right? | 12:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | gmann_: I think the first step is publish it somewhere good then, link to it | 12:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: yeah, it feels like there is tox work and gate job work to make that all real | 12:09 |
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| sdague | ok | 12:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | not sure how far anne has got with all those | 12:10 |
| sdague | let's try to get the content all landed first | 12:10 |
| sdague | how about we set that as a goal for next week | 12:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so get the set of TODOs landed, thats a good goal | 12:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | the content was with alex_xu so I suspect he will start on that when he gets back | 12:10 |
| sdague | #action nova-api team review and land outstanding doc patches for next week - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/230186 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/226253 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/229546/ | 12:11 |
| gmann_ | +1 | 12:11 |
| sdague | we can check in on it then | 12:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, more help with that would be good | 12:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | its can be super parallel, everyone take one TODO and add some details | 12:11 |
| gmann_ | I can help on those but need to look on those tomorrow | 12:11 |
| edleafe | I'll go over those today, too | 12:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | converting a big TODO to an intro with smaller TODOs is also cool, in my book | 12:12 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: where are all the TODOs listed now? | 12:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: its that content patch really, so https://review.openstack.org/#/c/226253/7 | 12:12 |
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| sdague | oh, gotcha, I see that now | 12:12 |
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| sdague | yep | 12:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | there is an etherpad, but I think thats mostly been worked through, I am told | 12:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-nova-priorities-tracking | 12:13 |
| sdague | so, from here on out I suggest the concept guide progress is a standing agenda item | 12:13 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so the patches are on the new etherpad of doom, FWIW ^ | 12:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: +1 | 12:13 |
| sdague | #action sdague to add concept guide progress to standing agenda | 12:13 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: anything else? | 12:14 |
| sdague | #topic Mitaka Planning | 12:14 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Mitaka Planning (Meeting topic: nova-api)" | 12:14 | |
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| johnthetubaguy | sdague: I am good on the previous stuff | 12:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | mitaka wise, I think we agreed docs, docs and more docs | 12:15 |
| sdague | I guess, lets get really near term on mitaka planning | 12:15 |
| sdague | is there summit actions we need | 12:15 |
| sdague | I agree that docs, docs, and more docs should be the focus for the cycle | 12:15 |
| gmann_ | yea | 12:16 |
| sdague | I guess I wonder if we should have an API priorities slot on the nova track, mostly to try to get more people involved in the docs effort | 12:16 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: how did you imagine the nova track is going to look this time? | 12:16 |
| gmann_ | saw lot of issues when people submit tempest patches for Nova tests by referring api doc :) | 12:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: so its not fixed in stone yet, I am totally open to what folks think will be useful for the API stuff | 12:17 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: I guess you need to discuss about the proposals once it's closed, right? | 12:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: I am happy to discuss it now | 12:18 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: I feel like it would be nice to have 1 slot if we could, because it may help getting more folks invovled | 12:18 |
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| johnthetubaguy | its a possible one, I think its important enough | 12:19 |
| sdague | I guess the other thing that probably needs agreement is how to evaluate both the ec2 potential drop, and the v2 on v2.1 bit for operators | 12:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | I just worried what folks will get out of it, we could have a backup plan of a hackathon on a few fixes, if we finish early I guess | 12:19 |
| sdague | I think with docs, plus those 2 issues to discuss, we probably have a slot | 12:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | yes, I think we need to follow up with everett on some of that, I know he was thinking about it | 12:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | who is happy to put that proposal together, and drive it? | 12:20 |
| sdague | I can do that | 12:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | sweet | 12:20 |
| sdague | probably late today, or tomorrow morning | 12:21 |
| sdague | #action sdague to propose API slot for summit | 12:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | sounds good | 12:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | gmann_: you mentioned tempest | 12:21 |
| sdague | beyond that, I think for mitaka we need to bring back the old standing agenda items about specs with API impact, and API impact reviews to highlight here | 12:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | what can we do to help there, is that blocked on better docs? | 12:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: oh good point, its time to bring them back | 12:22 |
| sdague | anyone want to sign up for that agenda change? | 12:22 |
| gmann_ | johnthetubaguy: not blocked, due to doc there were wrong response etc on many times | 12:22 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I think some focused work on tempest (and in tree functional tests) are well worth it | 12:22 |
| gmann_ | johnthetubaguy: then people dig into code | 12:22 |
| gmann_ | after doc improvement i think that should be fine | 12:22 |
| sdague | #info we should bring back standing items on specs and patches with APIImpact | 12:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | I was hoping the auto-generated API docs might also generate tests, in some way | 12:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: I am tempted to give that action to alex_xu, but thats feels a bit rude! | 12:23 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: honestly, everyone wants to autogenerate everything. But in reality some hand crafting usually makes sense here. | 12:23 |
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| sdague | ok, any other mitaka issues before we move to open discussion? | 12:24 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sdague: true, more just the heavy lifting I guess | 12:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | I am good for open now | 12:24 |
| gibi | hi! | 12:25 |
| gibi | I have a spec up on review about versioning and therefore documenting the notification API of nova. I guess this forum is interested about such an proposal. | 12:25 |
| gmann_ | sdague: as johnthetubaguy mentioned any planing to move nova API tests from tempest to nova | 12:25 |
| gmann_ | specially negative tests | 12:25 |
| sdague | #topic Open Discussion | 12:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: nova-api)" | 12:25 | |
| gibi | here is the spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/224755/ | 12:25 |
| gibi | and I here is some WIP example code: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/229881/ | 12:25 |
| sdague | gmann_: so, honestly, I think those are fine to be done. | 12:25 |
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| sdague | but they are kind of one off, I did a couple as examples last cycle | 12:25 |
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| gmann_ | sdague: yea flavor one | 12:26 |
| sdague | gibi: so, this is mostly about the REST API, but I agree that versioned notification api is important as well | 12:26 |
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| gmann_ | sdague: i will check how we can move all negative one and keep adding more negative on nova side itself | 12:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | gibi: so the notification API is probably a bit more for the nova general meeting than the API meeting really | 12:27 |
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| gibi | sdague, johnthetubaguy: OK, I will then raise it there :) | 12:28 |
| gmann_ | because due to lack of negative tests we face issue while v2.1 comp things | 12:28 |
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| johnthetubaguy | gibi: that looks like the plan dansmith was recommending, I see he made some good comments there that need working through | 12:29 |
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| sdague | gmann_: right, so those should be filled in on the nova functional side | 12:29 |
| sdague | I don't think they should go in tempest | 12:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 | 12:29 |
| gmann_ | yea | 12:29 |
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| gibi | johnthetubaguy: yes dansmith gave good comments, I just try to gathering more feedback. | 12:30 |
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| gmann_ | so first move ll negative from Tempest to nova and then add more on nova side itself | 12:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | gibi: all good | 12:30 |
| gmann_ | is it fine ? | 12:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I think we should concentrate on the docs frist | 12:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | first | 12:30 |
| sdague | gmann_: honestly, I would add more tests to nova first | 12:31 |
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| sdague | moving from tempest doesn't gain anything really | 12:31 |
| gmann_ | johnthetubaguy: yea absolutely. after doc thing only | 12:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | gmann_: cool | 12:31 |
| sdague | adding tests to nova for stuff that's not covered does | 12:31 |
| gmann_ | sdague: i see, thats also looks good | 12:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: that makes sense, look at proper negative tests in three, then go from there, that makes sense | 12:31 |
| sdague | and, in general, adding more tests is always a win | 12:31 |
| gmann_ | yup | 12:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think once our coverage goes up, we just drop the tempest tests | 12:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | thats does sound better | 12:32 |
| sdague | yes | 12:32 |
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| sdague | ok, anything else from folks? | 12:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | I am good, I think | 12:33 |
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| bauzas | just a comment that I made a proposal | 12:33 |
| gmann_ | me too | 12:33 |
| bauzas | if we have an API slot, we could see if it could be merged | 12:34 |
| bauzas | that's about API extensibility re: scheduler hints | 12:34 |
| sdague | cool. slightly related, we're planning on service catalog tng cross project session. I've got to update that spec this week | 12:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: yeah, that makes sense | 12:34 |
| sdague | bauzas: honestly, I think we already agreed on that one point, and further changes like that are hard without something like json home | 12:34 |
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| sdague | which is going to be dubious for the release if we are focussed on docs | 12:35 |
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| bauzas | sdague: okay, then let's discuss that off-topic, I probably missed some discussion :) | 12:35 |
| sdague | yep, no prob | 12:35 |
| sdague | ok, anything else from folks? | 12:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I have a feeling it might be bad enough for v2.1 adoption that its worth covering, but lets see how it goes | 12:35 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: ok | 12:35 |
| edleafe | I'm good | 12:36 |
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| sdague | alright, thanks folks | 12:36 |
| bauzas | +1 | 12:36 |
| sdague | #endmeeting | 12:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 12:36 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 6 12:36:48 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 12:36 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-10-06-12.04.html | 12:36 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-10-06-12.04.txt | 12:36 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-10-06-12.04.log.html | 12:36 |
| gmann_ | Thanks all | 12:36 |
| gibi | thanks | 12:37 |
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| Qiming | #startmeeting senlin | 13:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 6 13:01:19 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:01 |
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| Qiming | hello | 13:01 |
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| yanyanhu_ | hi | 13:01 |
| haiwei | hi | 13:01 |
| elynn | Hi | 13:01 |
| jruano | hello | 13:01 |
| Qiming | wow, you are all here, ;) | 13:02 |
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| yanyanhu_ | yep :) | 13:02 |
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| lixinhui | :) | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu_ | just came back from hometown | 13:02 |
| Qiming | pls check agenda and see if you have things to add | 13:02 |
| Qiming | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda#Weekly_Senlin_.28Clustering.29_meeting | 13:02 |
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| haiwei | nice holiday | 13:02 |
| Qiming | I was expecting that I will be alone here, since it is holiday for most of us | 13:03 |
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| yanyanhu_ | ;) | 13:03 |
| Qiming | #topic liberty work items | 13:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "liberty work items (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:03 | |
| Qiming | the etherpad page loads pretty slow | 13:04 |
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| Qiming | we still have some items left there, have to postpone to next cycle | 13:04 |
| Qiming | for the container work, will get an update from SUR team tonight -- 1 hour later | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu_ | about the unit test in senlinclient, have we done it? | 13:05 |
| jruano | yes, i sent out a request qi ming. haven't heard anything back | 13:05 |
| Qiming | yanyanhu_, that is something we need to postpone | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu_ | ok | 13:05 |
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| haiwei | sorry about that, I should do that | 13:06 |
| Qiming | jruano, you are in that meeting, I haven't heard anything last week | 13:06 |
| jruano | there is some interesting client code, but all the specs for profile and policy are not checked into the repo | 13:06 |
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| jruano | yep | 13:06 |
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| Qiming | I have invited Liam to join that discussion | 13:06 |
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| jruano | ton and i have defined the use cases, and i want to start understanding how/where senlin fits | 13:07 |
| Qiming | haiwei and I should spend sometime on client test cases anyway | 13:07 |
| Qiming | yep, jruano, need to touch base with the eam | 13:07 |
| haiwei | yes, Qiming | 13:07 |
| Qiming | s/eam/team | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu_ | I think we can work on it together in the coming cycle. | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu_ | I will spend some time on it as well | 13:08 |
| Qiming | okay, we have just got an +2 on the patch to propose senlinclient into global requirements | 13:08 |
| elynn | good news | 13:08 |
| yanyanhu_ | cool | 13:08 |
| jruano | awesome | 13:08 |
| haiwei | saw it | 13:08 |
| Qiming | hope it will be approved soon, so it won't block senlin-dashboard progress | 13:08 |
| yanyanhu_ | this is helpful for elynn I think | 13:08 |
| Qiming | yanyanhu_, do we have more to add regarding functional tests? | 13:09 |
| yanyanhu_ | for the senlin support in heat | 13:09 |
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| elynn | yes | 13:09 |
| yanyanhu_ | Qiming, I guess not for now | 13:09 |
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| Qiming | great | 13:09 |
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| haiwei | great job yanyanhu | 13:09 |
| yanyanhu_ | oh, maybe still a little more work on node | 13:09 |
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| Qiming | elynn, we need to sit together for a discussion on how to get heat resource types work | 13:10 |
| yanyanhu_ | but I think it won't take much time | 13:10 |
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| elynn | Qiming: yes, when I get back from holiday. | 13:10 |
| Qiming | yanyanhu_, alright, let's get it done then we switch to mitaka work items | 13:10 |
| yanyanhu_ | ok | 13:11 |
| Qiming | #topic placement policy | 13:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "placement policy (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:11 | |
| Qiming | lixinhui, anything to share from your side? | 13:11 |
| lixinhui | I am working on vSphereDRS_policy | 13:12 |
| lixinhui | and unit test | 13:12 |
| lixinhui | will submit patch around this Thursday | 13:12 |
| Qiming | okay, cool | 13:12 |
| lixinhui | Need your help to review then :) | 13:12 |
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| haiwei | in fact I am not familiar with vSphereDRS_policy | 13:12 |
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| Qiming | Liuwei's patch reagarding az placement policy needs a patch | 13:13 |
| lixinhui | oh? | 13:13 |
| lixinhui | Maybe I can help | 13:13 |
| haiwei | what is the relationship between vSphereDRS_policy and placement policy | 13:13 |
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| Qiming | seems we need a doc for every policy? | 13:13 |
| lixinhui | I think he has done that part | 13:13 |
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| yanyanhu_ | Qiming, agree. | 13:13 |
| yanyanhu_ | and I noticed you have worked on docstring | 13:14 |
| haiwei | it will help me at least | 13:14 |
| lixinhui | Okay | 13:14 |
| lixinhui | reasonable | 13:14 |
| Qiming | em. for all builtin policies, we need some docs explaining how it works | 13:14 |
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| lixinhui | I could add some when the patch done | 13:14 |
| Qiming | sounds great | 13:15 |
| yanyanhu_ | maybe we should always adding docstring when adding new features | 13:15 |
| Qiming | lixinhui, Liuwei's patch: https://review.openstack.org/221684 | 13:15 |
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| haiwei | thanks lixinhui | 13:15 |
| lixinhui | Okay, Qiming | 13:15 |
| lixinhui | I will read it | 13:15 |
| Qiming | yanyanhu_, by docs, I am referring to some design level things, not just function level comments | 13:15 |
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| Qiming | lixinhui, it is in a pretty good shape now | 13:16 |
| jruano | yes i think that will help | 13:16 |
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| yanyanhu_ | yes, this is nice since it can help people understand the implementation better | 13:16 |
| Qiming | the placement policy patch can be tweaked a little bit to support cross-region placement | 13:17 |
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| lixinhui | Okay, Qiming | 13:17 |
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| Qiming | yanyanhu_, can you have add a TODO item in the TODO.rst file? don't want this ball dropped, :) | 13:17 |
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| yanyanhu_ | sure | 13:18 |
| Qiming | #topic deletion policy for RESIZE operation | 13:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "deletion policy for RESIZE operation (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:18 | |
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| Qiming | haiwei has helped start this thread | 13:18 |
| Qiming | so far the implementation is not correct in my opinion | 13:19 |
| haiwei | I thought it was not difficult, but it seems not | 13:19 |
| Qiming | yep | 13:19 |
| Qiming | there are many easier paths to get this done, but we have to look at the big picture | 13:20 |
| haiwei | I think the problem is that resize action can delete nodes more than one at a time | 13:20 |
| haiwei | yes | 13:20 |
| Qiming | maybe we can extract the parsing of RESIZE parameters into a utility function | 13:21 |
| Qiming | we then call that function directly if no policy is attached to the cluster | 13:21 |
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| haiwei | that will be done inside the action execution? | 13:22 |
| Qiming | if we do have certain policies that want to handle RESIZE action, we invoke this parser as well | 13:22 |
| haiwei | sounds a good idea | 13:23 |
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| Qiming | in action execution, we check if there are policy outputs and skip the parsing if seemed unnecessary | 13:23 |
| haiwei | I think this should be done in the engine/service layer | 13:23 |
| Qiming | there will be concurrency problems if you do maths there | 13:23 |
| Qiming | the cluster is not locked | 13:23 |
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| Qiming | any other actions can change the cluster at the same time | 13:24 |
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| haiwei | but for deletion policy the pre_op in which candidates are chosen in done before resize action execution | 13:24 |
| yanyanhu_ | haiwei, I think you can refer to the implementation of do_scale_in/out | 13:24 |
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| yanyanhu_ | they have similar problem | 13:25 |
| Qiming | agreed, scale_in/scale_out is a good reference | 13:25 |
| haiwei | yanyanhu, the problem is do_scale_in/out only delete one node at a time | 13:25 |
| haiwei | but resize action is different | 13:25 |
| Qiming | scale_in/out can carry a 'count' parameter | 13:26 |
| haiwei | how to initialize 'count' in pre_op is difficult for resize action | 13:26 |
| Qiming | in the case of resize, there are more parameters to handle | 13:26 |
| yanyanhu_ | yes, haiwei, just as Qiming said, those two actions can also accept 'count' input | 13:26 |
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| yanyanhu_ | haiwei, yes, the logic is more complicated since the constraint might be changed at the same time | 13:27 |
| Qiming | haiwei, I was suggesting to extract the "count" computation into a utility function | 13:27 |
| haiwei | i know that, those 'count' is default to 1, but resize action is different, we have to give it a value | 13:27 |
| yanyanhu_ | but I think you can split the logic out | 13:27 |
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| haiwei | ok, I think I got you | 13:28 |
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| Qiming | great | 13:28 |
| Qiming | #topic policy for node create/delete | 13:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "policy for node create/delete (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:28 | |
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| Qiming | so far we have been focusing on CLUSTER_XYZ actions when dealing with policies | 13:28 |
| Qiming | however, we do have NODE_CREATE/DELETE/JOIN/LEAVE actions | 13:29 |
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| Qiming | a NODE_CREATE action, with cluster_id provided, needs to be considered by the LB policy, for example | 13:29 |
| yanyanhu_ | yes | 13:29 |
| yanyanhu_ | ideally, those node_xxx actions should also be the target of some policies | 13:30 |
| Qiming | I have been looking at this during the past days | 13:30 |
| Qiming | I'm hoping this won't be a disruptive change to the current policy implementation | 13:31 |
| yanyanhu_ | umm, we need to think through this... | 13:32 |
| Qiming | anyway, I'll keep working on this | 13:32 |
| yanyanhu_ | will think about it | 13:32 |
| Qiming | okay, feel free to ping me for a discussion | 13:32 |
| yanyanhu_ | sure :) | 13:33 |
| Qiming | #topic batch policy | 13:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "batch policy (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:33 | |
| haiwei | Qiming, you mean you will focus on the LB policy only? | 13:33 |
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| Qiming | haiwei, no | 13:33 |
| Qiming | it is more about how to weave NODE_xxx actions into policy checking | 13:33 |
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| Qiming | not just for LB policy | 13:33 |
| haiwei | ok | 13:34 |
| Qiming | placement policy, for example, is another case where NODE_CREATE action should be checked | 13:35 |
| haiwei | and also placement policy | 13:35 |
| haiwei | yes | 13:35 |
| Qiming | :) | 13:35 |
| Qiming | #topic batching policy | 13:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "batching policy (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:36 | |
| Qiming | batching policy is really about throttling | 13:36 |
| Qiming | when creating/updating/deleting objects, senlin makes calls to other services | 13:37 |
| Qiming | we have to impose some constraints on the number requests sent to other services during any given period | 13:37 |
| Qiming | this is not an easy job as it seems to be | 13:38 |
| Qiming | take CLUSTER_CREATE as an example | 13:38 |
| Qiming | we want to control how many NODE_CREATE (thus nova boot requests after translation) we will trigger | 13:39 |
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| Qiming | however, the cluster is just being created, no policy has a chance to get attached to it yet | 13:39 |
| Qiming | it becomes a chicken-and-egg problem | 13:40 |
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| Qiming | so ... the question becomes: how can we do throttling without a policy | 13:41 |
| elynn | Define it in senlin.conf? | 13:41 |
| yanyanhu_ | Qiming, I think maybe we can split a cluster creation into multiple action sets, and there are dependencies between them? | 13:41 |
| haiwei | maybe we only attach batch policy after the cluster is created? | 13:41 |
| Qiming | I just proposed a configuration option, max_actions_per_batch | 13:42 |
| yanyanhu_ | but the existing dependency logic may not be able to support it | 13:42 |
| Qiming | it can be overridden later by a batching policy | 13:42 |
| Qiming | right, the current batched creation logic has to be revised to support this option | 13:43 |
| yanyanhu_ | hmm, my idea is not good. It is too far from our policy framework | 13:44 |
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| Qiming | I am starting to change my mind now | 13:45 |
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| Qiming | since we are executing all 'actions' asynchronously | 13:45 |
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| Qiming | (at least we wanted to do things that way) | 13:46 |
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| Qiming | all actions are first persisted into database | 13:46 |
| Qiming | then retrieved for execution | 13:46 |
| Qiming | so that throttling problem seems more like a scheduler problem | 13:47 |
| yanyanhu_ | yes | 13:47 |
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| yanyanhu_ | it is | 13:47 |
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| Qiming | say if we create a cluster of 1000 nodes | 13:47 |
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| yanyanhu_ | or it can be | 13:47 |
| jruano | sounds like it | 13:47 |
| Qiming | the 1000 NODE_CREATE actions are supposed to be executed in a controlled way | 13:48 |
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| Qiming | so ... I am inclined to looking at it from a different angel now | 13:49 |
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| Qiming | the problem is: how do we define the 'batching' policy then? | 13:49 |
| haiwei | by the way, this policy is triggered by hand? | 13:49 |
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| Qiming | haiwei, all policies are supposed to be triggered by certain actions | 13:50 |
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| jruano | set of rules to a scheduler | 13:50 |
| haiwei | so we need a new action for it? | 13:50 |
| yanyanhu_ | haiwei, I think we just manually provide the rule | 13:50 |
| Qiming | for creation/deletion, it sounds more like a scheduler parameter | 13:50 |
| elynn | So is it still needed? | 13:51 |
| Qiming | for update, it may carry some other QoS related semantics | 13:51 |
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| yanyanhu_ | yes. maybe we can start to consider the refactoring of engine scheduler | 13:51 |
| Qiming | during batched update, users may want to keep a certain number of service node running at any time | 13:51 |
| Qiming | yanyanhu_, yes, that is why I wasn't proposing a lot of patches recently, :) | 13:52 |
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| Qiming | really blocked by this problem | 13:53 |
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| Qiming | maybe we need to refactor the engine scheduler first | 13:53 |
| yanyanhu_ | ok, lets think about it :) | 13:53 |
| Qiming | make it a 'real' scheduler | 13:53 |
| yanyanhu_ | yep | 13:53 |
| Qiming | then we do 'scheduler.reschedule()' whenever necessary, just like a tickless Linux kernel | 13:53 |
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| Qiming | maybe we need to change 'batching' policy to just an 'update' policy | 13:54 |
| yanyanhu_ | right | 13:54 |
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| Qiming | will keep thinking of this | 13:55 |
| Qiming | #topic open discussions | 13:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussions (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:55 | |
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| Qiming | regarding big tent proposal, I'm drafting it in the coming days | 13:56 |
| haiwei | I will have a small session about senlin in my company's booth during the summit | 13:56 |
| Qiming | will send out to everyone for review | 13:56 |
| Qiming | thx, haiwei, ping us if any help needed | 13:56 |
| yanyanhu_ | haiwei, cool :) | 13:56 |
| jruano | nice | 13:56 |
| lixinhui | great! | 13:57 |
| Qiming | about the meetup during summit, the room allocation is pretty tight | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu_ | will visit your booth ;p | 13:57 |
| haiwei | I will prepare for the presentation , and want you to advices | 13:57 |
| Qiming | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-October/076054.html | 13:57 |
| Qiming | sure | 13:57 |
| Qiming | need to find out how to get everyone together for a f2f discussion | 13:57 |
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| Qiming | anything else | 13:58 |
| Qiming | ? | 13:58 |
| haiwei | no | 13:58 |
| Qiming | hoho, 1 min left | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu_ | nope | 13:58 |
| jruano | nope | 13:58 |
| elynn | nope | 13:58 |
| Qiming | thanks for joining, during your vacation | 13:59 |
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| Qiming | talk to you later | 13:59 |
| Qiming | #endmeeting | 13:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 6 13:59:17 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-10-06-13.01.html | 13:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-10-06-13.01.txt | 13:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-10-06-13.01.log.html | 13:59 |
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| armax | hi | 13:59 |
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| regXboi | ola | 13:59 |
| * mestery wanders in | 13:59 | |
| pc_m | hi | 13:59 |
| john-davidge | hi | 13:59 |
| rossella_s | hi | 13:59 |
| hichihara | hi | 13:59 |
| tidwellr | hi | 13:59 |
| dougwig | Morning | 13:59 |
| jlibosva | hi | 13:59 |
| armax | mestery, ajo, ihrachys, folks | 13:59 |
| * regXboi finds a seat next to the chalkboard | 13:59 | |
| ZZelle | Hi | 13:59 |
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| ihrachys | meeting time! :) | 13:59 |
| ihrachys | o/ | 13:59 |
| emagana | hello! | 13:59 |
| akamyshnikova_ | hi | 13:59 |
| mestery | ihrachys: Welcome back from your vacation! :) | 13:59 |
| johnsom__ | Hi all | 14:00 |
| gongysh | hello | 14:00 |
| armax | #startmeeting networking | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 6 14:00:08 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is armax. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| haleyb | hi | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking' | 14:00 |
| ihrachys | mestery: WAT? but whatever | 14:00 |
| yamamoto | hi | 14:00 |
| scheuran | hi | 14:00 |
| HenryG | o/ | 14:00 |
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| johnsom__ | o/ | 14:00 |
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| xgerman | o/ | 14:00 |
| vikram_ | hi | 14:00 |
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| * dougwig yawns | 14:00 | |
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| armax | welcome everybody who made it | 14:00 |
| hoangcx | hi | 14:00 |
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| Sukhdev | hello | 14:01 |
| kevinbenton | Hi! | 14:01 |
| armax | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings Agenda | 14:01 |
| emagana | sleepy but .. :-) | 14:01 |
| amotoki | hi | 14:01 |
| armax | I see lots of people scratching their eyes :) | 14:01 |
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| armax | #topic Announcements | 14:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:01 | |
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| armax | We had an RC2 churning the last couple of days | 14:01 |
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| armax | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/liberty-rc2 | 14:02 |
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| ajo_ | o/ (sorry to be late ;) | 14:02 |
| armax | mestery: what’s the latest? | 14:02 |
| armax | ajo_: welcome | 14:02 |
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| armax | we good? | 14:02 |
| mestery | armax: We have one patch in the merge queue then RC2 will be cut | 14:02 |
| ajo | yeah, thanks :) | 14:02 |
| obondarev | hi | 14:02 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/231362/ | 14:02 |
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| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/neutron+branch:stable/liberty,n,z | 14:02 |
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| armax | mestery: ok, let’s hope there’s no last minute scare | 14:03 |
| armax | we’re really running out of time | 14:03 |
| mestery | Yes | 14:03 |
| mestery | Time is gone now | 14:03 |
| ihrachys | mestery: actually https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:%255Eopenstack/neutron.*+branch:stable/liberty,n,z is better | 14:03 |
| armax | HenryG: we good as far as DB goes? | 14:03 |
| mestery | ihrachys: Ack :) | 14:03 |
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| HenryG | armax: yup | 14:03 |
| armax | ok | 14:03 |
| ajo | ok, that patch, is good to have, but if not merged, we can go | 14:03 |
| armax | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Liberty#OpenStack_Liberty_Release_Notes | 14:03 |
| ajo | I mean, that bug is not actually happening in liberty, but in earlier releases, and off-gate | 14:03 |
| armax | please can we all check that we haven’t missed anything? | 14:03 |
| ajo | but it's a fix we'd want backported to kilo | 14:04 |
| armax | ajo: cool, thanks for clearing that up | 14:04 |
| ajo | so, if it doesn't merge, IMHO , feel free to cut, we're safe | 14:04 |
| amotoki | 231362 has no cherry-picked line. it's a nit though... | 14:04 |
| * armax looks | 14:04 | |
| ajo | oh, true amotoki , I used the gerrit interface, I didn't realize | 14:04 |
| ihrachys | "Neutron now supports a way that an agent can start without selectable for auto-scheduling but manual-scheduling available so that a deployer can test an agent manually" am I the only one who fails to parse? | 14:05 |
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| ajo | I guess the change-id keeps the traceability | 14:05 |
| armax | um, yeah | 14:05 |
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| amotoki | yeah. I don't think we need to pull it from the queue. | 14:05 |
| armax | I don’t see it in the gate queue | 14:05 |
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| ihrachys | amotoki: actually, cherry-picked from line had some tech meaning (there was a bug in gerrit where it merged a patch into wrong branch if it was not present) | 14:05 |
| armax | at all | 14:05 |
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| armax | but ttx approved it | 14:06 |
| kevinbenton | ihrachys: that's scary | 14:06 |
| ajo | armax, ok, let's edit the commit message and get's the votes fixed quick, that's likely to retrigger the gate | 14:06 |
| armax | not sure if it was a simple oversight | 14:06 |
| ihrachys | kevinbenton: it is. now you understand why I pick nits on backports? | 14:06 |
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| armax | ok | 14:06 |
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| * ajo does | 14:06 | |
| mestery | Wait, we're pulling it out of the gate to add a cherry-pick line? | 14:06 |
| mestery | Why? | 14:07 |
| armax | ajo: the queue is 20+ patches deep | 14:07 |
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| * ajo waits | 14:07 | |
| carl_baldwin | ihrachys: Do you have a link to some info on that bug. I’ve never heard of it. | 14:07 |
| mestery | Please don't do that, ttx and I already approved it and it's the last one | 14:07 |
| ajo | ok | 14:07 |
| armax | and hte check queue is 60+ patches deep | 14:07 |
| mestery | Right | 14:07 |
| armax | mestery: ok | 14:07 |
| * ajo stops | 14:07 | |
| mestery | Cool | 14:07 |
| mestery | :) | 14:07 |
| armax | but I don’t see the change in the queue at all | 14:07 |
| mestery | Whew :) | 14:07 |
| mestery | It's in the merge queue armax | 14:07 |
| armax | something is up! | 14:07 |
| ajo | ':) | 14:07 |
| mestery | 231362? | 14:07 |
| armax | oh found it | 14:08 |
| mestery | armax: :) | 14:08 |
| regXboi | It's building right now | 14:08 |
| armax | ok, wer’e good | 14:08 |
| ihrachys | carl_baldwin: I suggest people to read the guidelines: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StableBranch#Proposing_Fixes | 14:08 |
| ihrachys | see in bold | 14:08 |
| armax | let’s move on | 14:08 |
| mestery | Yes | 14:08 |
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| armax | yes…let’s accept it as a momentary lapse of the reason | 14:08 |
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| mestery | ++ | 14:09 |
| armax | #info People should remember to do cherry-pick -x on their cherry picks | 14:09 |
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| mestery | Sanity prevails! Yay! :) | 14:09 |
| armax | ajo: capisce? | 14:09 |
| ajo | ihrachys: it's sad I know it, but I trusted gerrit on doing the right thing on the "cherry-pick" button ;( | 14:09 |
| ajo | You can't even trust a machine.. | 14:09 |
| ajo | (it seems) | 14:09 |
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| ihrachys | ajo: it fails to do it until the patch is not merged. | 14:09 |
| kevinbenton | I always just made up the hash after the cherry picked from statement. I didn't know it meant something :) | 14:09 |
| ajo | ihrachys: yikes, understood | 14:09 |
| ajo | kevinbenton: made up like in uuidgen ? | 14:10 |
| ajo | X) | 14:10 |
| ajo | sorry, that's not an uuid... ;D | 14:10 |
| armax | ok, next | 14:10 |
| armax | before we do that | 14:10 |
| armax | mestery: anything else? | 14:10 |
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| armax | anyone else on RC2? | 14:10 |
| armax | comments? | 14:10 |
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| mestery | Well | 14:10 |
| kevinbenton | There is also a stable/kilo release very soon, right? | 14:10 |
| mestery | johnsom__ has indicated there are 3 LBaaS bugs which woudl be good to get in RC2 | 14:11 |
| mestery | So I'm doing cherry-picks now | 14:11 |
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| ihrachys | kevinbenton: yes, week+ from now | 14:11 |
| mestery | And I'll work offline with him on those | 14:11 |
| johnsom__ | I am chatting with mestery about a couple of neutron-lbaas issues that fell through the cracks | 14:11 |
| xgerman | +1 | 14:11 |
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| ajo | ok, for kilo, please: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/stevedore/patterns_loading.html#hooks-single-name-many-entry-points | 14:11 |
| ajo | argh.. | 14:11 |
| ajo | sorry :( | 14:11 |
| ajo | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/231363/ | 14:11 |
| ajo | that's what I meant | 14:11 |
| ajo | same ipset fix, for kilo, I will fix the cherry-pick reference | 14:12 |
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| ihrachys | ajo: I'll handle the kilo queue after the meeting | 14:13 |
| ajo | thanks ihrachys | 14:13 |
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| armax | ok cool, I think we’re set then | 14:13 |
| armax | if not, let’s quickly reconvene on our channel after the call | 14:14 |
| * armax wants to go to bed again after this ;) | 14:14 | |
| emagana | armax: same here! | 14:14 |
| armax | so, next reminder: | 14:14 |
| ajo | thanks armax & emagana | 14:14 |
| armax | #link http://docs.openstack.org/developer/neutron/policies/index.html | 14:15 |
| armax | we review/revise them as they go | 14:15 |
| armax | we need to see what works and what doesn’t | 14:15 |
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| armax | and make sure we are a well oiled machine as a much as we can be | 14:15 |
| mestery | armax: ++ | 14:16 |
| armax | I proposed changes to the way we handle bugs last week | 14:16 |
| armax | #link http://docs.openstack.org/developer/neutron/policies/bugs.html | 14:16 |
| emagana | +1 | 14:16 |
| Sukhdev | armax: I have an announcement | 14:16 |
| ajo | +1 :) | 14:16 |
| armax | the reaction was overwhelmingly positive | 14:16 |
| armax | Sukhdev: wait your turn please | 14:16 |
| Sukhdev | sorry - still sleepy | 14:17 |
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| armax | please make yourself familiar with the new guidelines | 14:17 |
| armax | and reach out to us for questions or propose edits yourself | 14:17 |
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| armax | after all, we all own the policies | 14:17 |
| armax | Sukhdev: you’re up | 14:18 |
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| Sukhdev | We are having ML2 sprint today and tomorrow for anybody interested in it | 14:18 |
| Sukhdev | here is the information - https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Neutron_ML2_Mid-Cycle_Sprint | 14:18 |
| Sukhdev | #link: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Neutron_ML2_Mid-Cycle_Sprint | 14:18 |
| ajo | you should call it pre-cycle :D | 14:18 |
| Sukhdev | it will cover few critical issues for ML2 | 14:19 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: The secret ML2 illuminati meeting? :) | 14:19 |
| armax | pre-wash? | 14:19 |
| ajo | lol | 14:19 |
| * regXboi likes pre-wash | 14:19 | |
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| mestery | lol | 14:19 |
| Sukhdev | mestery: no secret - it was announced on ML weeks ago | 14:19 |
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| armax | I hope those issues are washed at high temperature | 14:19 |
| Sukhdev | pre-Mitaka | 14:19 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: I'm kidding, mostly | 14:19 |
| armax | some stains won’t go away otherwise | 14:19 |
| * regXboi wonders if we should say pre-OH | 14:19 | |
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| Sukhdev | whats pre-OH? | 14:20 |
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| ajo | Sukhdev, thanks, sounds interesting, I will be watching | 14:20 |
| armax | ok, last announcement/reminder | 14:20 |
| regXboi | pre-alcohol | 14:20 |
| emagana | regXboi: Love it! | 14:20 |
| armax | We started our collictive guide | 14:20 |
| armax | #link http://docs.openstack.org/developer/neutron/devref/effective_neutron.html | 14:20 |
| armax | if you want to make changes to it, please tag the change with the ‘effective’ topic | 14:21 |
| armax | *collective | 14:21 |
| * regXboi definitely thinks we should be considered a "well c2h5oh-ed" group :) | 14:22 | |
| * dougwig groans | 14:22 | |
| * ihrachys shrugs | 14:22 | |
| * kevinbenton thinks regXboi took long to respond because he was looking that up on the Internet | 14:22 | |
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| emagana | kevinbenton: lol | 14:23 |
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| * regXboi says - no, he was double checking with the chemist in the house - his wife :) | 14:23 | |
| mestery | lol | 14:23 |
| armax | the outstanding patches to the guide are: | 14:23 |
| armax | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/neutron+branch:master+topic:effective,n,z | 14:23 |
| ajo | armax, it's a nice devref guide, there are so many questions/mistakes which repeat over time | 14:23 |
| armax | feel free to check them out and post comments | 14:24 |
| armax | ajo: that’s the idea | 14:24 |
| amotoki | it is also a good chance to remember openstack common practices :-) | 14:24 |
| armax | the more useful content we add, the better it is | 14:24 |
| armax | we should strive to add Neutron-specific content | 14:24 |
| armax | after all we’re more hopeless than other openstack projects | 14:24 |
| armax | as some people might think | 14:24 |
| kevinbenton | I thought you told me that the less content I added, the better it would be? | 14:24 |
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| armax | kevinbenton: no I mean, overall | 14:25 |
| kevinbenton | :) | 14:25 |
| armax | not per bullet point | 14:25 |
| armax | any other announcement? | 14:25 |
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| ihrachys | armax: I guess a link to another page with broader discussion of a topic is applicable there. | 14:25 |
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| mestery | armax: Perception lags reality, but only when people are lucid | 14:25 |
| armax | sorry, not following | 14:26 |
| armax | I haven’t had my morning coffee yet | 14:26 |
| kevinbenton | Who is throwing the Tokyo party? amotoki?? | 14:26 |
| mestery | armax: You must not be lucid | 14:26 |
| mestery | :) | 14:26 |
| mestery | kevinbenton: Doesn't matter who's throwing, armax is buying right? | 14:26 |
| emagana | you both armax and mestery should be buying! | 14:26 |
| armax | ihrachys: you mean this? | 14:26 |
| armax | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-October/076190.html | 14:26 |
| emagana | I want sake! | 14:26 |
| ihrachys | armax: if it's for me, I mean, let's say I want to cover upgrade, but that's a huge topic, so I create a new page in devref. Should I link to it from effective? | 14:26 |
| armax | ihrachys: oh, yes | 14:27 |
| armax | ihrachys: I think that’s mentioned in the introduction to the guide | 14:27 |
| amotoki | kevinbenton: I am looking for a place... | 14:27 |
| armax | ihrachys: if you need to expand feel free to just provide the pointer | 14:27 |
| ihrachys | oh poor me. ok. | 14:27 |
| armax | emagana: as I said, since we’re the one providing the service, we’re the one that should be bought drinks ;) | 14:27 |
| kevinbenton | amotoki: punishment for not finding one is you host it in your home | 14:28 |
| * markmcclain sneaks in late from teh car dealership | 14:28 | |
| kevinbenton | :) | 14:28 |
| armax | ZZelle: ping | 14:28 |
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| ZZelle | armax, pong | 14:28 |
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| armax | #topic Bugs | 14:28 |
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| armax | ZZelle: hi | 14:28 |
| amotoki | kevinbenton: my home is not so near to the summit :-( you can enjoy one hour train. | 14:28 |
| emagana | armax: actually that is a good idea... who is working for an operator? :-0 | 14:28 |
| regXboi | party on the train? | 14:28 |
| armax | with the changes in bug management procedures | 14:29 |
| armax | we started looking at the backlog of bugs we have pending and that’s... | 14:29 |
| armax | huge | 14:29 |
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| regXboi | armax: ++ for each bug :( | 14:29 |
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| armax | between client and server we have 1000+ open bugs | 14:29 |
| armax | some may as well be junk | 14:29 |
| ajo | ouch | 14:29 |
| armax | but we don’t know until we have a good handle on these | 14:30 |
| njohnston | oi | 14:30 |
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| armax | so we gotta figure out a plan to bring those down | 14:30 |
| armax | ZZelle has been looking at expiring some of those | 14:30 |
| ihrachys | armax: take 100, distribute 10 per core, expect them to be triaged till next week? | 14:30 |
| kevinbenton | I think bug fixes would be good | 14:31 |
| ajo | ihrachys, that could sound good | 14:31 |
| ZZelle | We have a lot of bugs, a lot of bugs with no activity in the last 12 months: ~ 120 bugs | 14:31 |
| armax | bugs that are marked incomplete, unassigned and untargeted expire after 60 days | 14:31 |
| regXboi | I'd vote for getting those 120 into that state | 14:31 |
| armax | that should give us enough time to look at them and revive those that might be relevant | 14:31 |
| armax | for those that aren’t | 14:31 |
| armax | the LP janitor will eventually evict them | 14:31 |
| armax | so if everyone is okay with that strategy | 14:32 |
| armax | ZZelle: fire away! | 14:32 |
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| dougwig | if we've been that lax on bugs, we might even want to scrub the recently expired (<6 months) | 14:32 |
| ihrachys | armax: no triage, just move them to the state? | 14:32 |
| armax | ihrachys: LP has a link | 14:32 |
| ajo | dougwig, expired go when incomplete & not assigned & not targetted if I din't get it wrong | 14:32 |
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| ajo | I guess somebody scrub those to become expired | 14:33 |
| ajo | scrubbed | 14:33 |
| armax | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+expirable-bugs | 14:33 |
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| armax | ihrachys: after ZZelle fired his script | 14:33 |
| armax | those bugs should appear under that link | 14:33 |
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| ihrachys | but should we triage bugs before marking them for expiration? | 14:33 |
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| regXboi | ajo: if at Tzero a bug is moved to incomplete/unassigned/untargeted, then at Tzero+60 days, it will be expired by the LP janitor | 14:33 |
| armax | and then we can go over and see which one is worth triaging | 14:33 |
| armax | and reviving if we have too | 14:33 |
| ZZelle | dougwig, 6 months is really aggressive as it implies > 300 bugs in https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+expirable-bugs to triage in 60 days | 14:34 |
| armax | ihrachys: they won’t actually expire until the Janitor kicks in 60 days from now | 14:34 |
| ihrachys | ok, as long as we don't blindly close eyes and forget them at all | 14:34 |
| armax | ihrachys: nope | 14:34 |
| armax | dougwig: yeah we figured 1y was the best compromise | 14:34 |
| ajo | ok, that sounds good, | 14:34 |
| armax | 1.5y not aggressive enough and .5y too aggressive | 14:35 |
| ajo | if the reporter is not willing to provide more information after 60 days... I guess it's not that important | 14:35 |
| ZZelle | if 120 bugs seem too large to handle in 60 days, then we can run the script twice | 14:35 |
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| armax | ZZelle: that should be fine | 14:35 |
| dougwig | by scrub, i meant, maybe we should take a look at recently expired bugs, lest we let things slip through the cracks. | 14:35 |
| ajo | ZZelle, you don't need to fix them ,just move out from incomplete | 14:35 |
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| armax | #action ZZelle to mark incomplete the bugs older than one year | 14:36 |
| ZZelle | ajo, i hope so :) | 14:36 |
| ZZelle | armax, ack | 14:36 |
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| armax | #info they will show up here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+expirable-bugs | 14:36 |
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| armax | then I and someone else will look into those to make sure we don’t miss anything ‘important' | 14:37 |
| armax | this actually brings me to the next point | 14:37 |
| armax | bug deputy for the forthcoming week | 14:38 |
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| armax | I’ll be shadowing/helping where I can to ensure that we iron out the kinks of the new process | 14:38 |
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| armax | any volunteer? | 14:38 |
| ihrachys | I can volunteer | 14:38 |
| regXboi | armax: I raise my hand as well | 14:38 |
| markmcclain | happy to take it too | 14:39 |
| ajo | can I go ahead and close from those bugs, what's actually incorrect? | 14:39 |
| ajo | or invalid? | 14:39 |
| armax | ajo: yes you can | 14:39 |
| ihrachys | armax: too much volunteers. we need a lottery! | 14:39 |
| armax | ihrachys: went first | 14:39 |
| mestery | rofl | 14:39 |
| markmcclain | I'm happy to wait until november :) | 14:39 |
| ihrachys | sigh | 14:39 |
| armax | :) | 14:39 |
| ihrachys | :) | 14:39 |
| regXboi | heck - you've got the next three weeks | 14:39 |
| armax | the first one who replies wins | 14:39 |
| regXboi | just hand it out one at a time | 14:39 |
| armax | :) | 14:39 |
| ajo | I will volunteer after (or even during, if that's useful) summit | 14:40 |
| armax | Let’s have ihrachys be the deputy for the week of Oct 5 | 14:40 |
| kevinbenton | Can you unassign the bugs that haven't had activity for a week? | 14:40 |
| regXboi | armax: actually, I really thing you *should* schedule it out a bit further | 14:40 |
| ajo | ihrachys++ | 14:40 |
| kevinbenton | With no patch proposed | 14:40 |
| armax | but anyone else should be free to help and take stuff off his plate | 14:40 |
| ihrachys | armax: we select every week? | 14:40 |
| emagana | should we just add our names to the neutron meetings wiki? | 14:40 |
| armax | if they feel like he’s slipping ;) | 14:40 |
| armax | ihrachys: either every week or every other week | 14:40 |
| regXboi | it might help folks to know a little in advance what week they are "in the slot" | 14:40 |
| emagana | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings | 14:40 |
| armax | ihrachys: depending on how you’re doing | 14:40 |
| ihrachys | ack | 14:41 |
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| * ihrachys is voted to be the guinea pig | 14:41 | |
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| ajo | armax, ZZelle , marking as Invalid is enough, or should touch anything else? | 14:41 |
| armax | ihrachys: you feel like you have bandwidth this week? | 14:41 |
| njohnston | armax: If you schedule it out further than anyone who is driven by a sprint schedule can make sure that they have time allocated for bugmaster duty in their sprint. | 14:41 |
| dougwig | we need some token of office, like a sceptre. a wand with a rubber cockroach on the end. | 14:41 |
| ihrachys | armax: yes, I will do bug scrubbing for OSP anyway | 14:41 |
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| armax | ihrachys: ok great | 14:41 |
| johnsom__ | Nice | 14:41 |
| markmcclain | dougwig: I think you have shopping to do between now and tokyo | 14:41 |
| armax | I’ll add you to the bug deputy table for the week | 14:41 |
| regXboi | armax: see njohnston's comment - he makes a good point | 14:42 |
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| armax | #info ihrachys the bug deputy for Oct 5th, supported by regXboi, markmcclain if necessary | 14:42 |
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| * regXboi acks the #info | 14:42 | |
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| amuller | ihrachys: I can help as well | 14:42 |
| ihrachys | folks, thanks and I will reach if needed | 14:43 |
| armax | njohnston: yes, assumed that their sprint schedule overlaps with ours? | 14:43 |
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| armax | week by week seems the best horizon for things upstream, but we can definitely plan a little further ahead | 14:43 |
| armax | so for instance, if regXboi wants to take next week | 14:44 |
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| armax | regXboi: do you want to? | 14:44 |
| armax | we can revise your commitment next week | 14:44 |
| regXboi | armax: I can take the next slot | 14:44 |
| armax | njohnston: is that what you were suggesting? | 14:44 |
| armax | #info regXboi to provisionally take the bug deputy role for week of Oct 12th | 14:44 |
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| armax | ok, let’s move next | 14:45 |
| ihrachys | 10 mins to choose a volunteers. sick. | 14:45 |
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| mestery | lol | 14:45 |
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| armax | ihrachys: too many volunteers! you gotta love it | 14:45 |
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| armax | #topic docs | 14:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "docs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:46 | |
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| armax | emagana: any update? | 14:46 |
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| emagana | armax: short one | 14:46 |
| emagana | On the networking guide we will be stopping having the old hangout meetings and moving into IRC | 14:46 |
| mestery | emagana: yay! Good call! | 14:47 |
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| emagana | Nick Chase was helping on leading the logistics but he will take a break and I will be leading the meeting.. I will send the details on ML because I dont have them yet! | 14:47 |
| emagana | :-) | 14:47 |
| annegentle | thank you emagana! | 14:48 |
| emagana | So, folks please join and contribute to the networking guide! | 14:48 |
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| armax | thanks emagana | 14:48 |
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| armax | anything else on docs? | 14:49 |
| emagana | armax: passing the ball to you! | 14:49 |
| ihrachys | emagana: do we have our docs process documented in devref? that could be a good start for more participants. | 14:49 |
| armax | bear in mind that whenever DocImpact is flagged on a commit message | 14:49 |
| armax | a new bug is filed for the openstack manuals | 14:49 |
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| armax | please remember to provide as much info | 14:50 |
| armax | to help the doc bug submitter with his/her job | 14:50 |
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| armax | #topic Open Discussion | 14:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:50 | |
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| armax | as some of you may know... | 14:50 |
| armax | #https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-mitaka-designsummit | 14:50 |
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| armax | the summit is fast approaching | 14:50 |
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| yamini | we wanted to discuss https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/cms-to-test-environment | 14:51 |
| ajo | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1485422 | 14:51 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1485422 in neutron "neutron-ovs-cleanup sometimes failed at reboot (Ubuntu 14.04)" [Undecided,Invalid] | 14:51 |
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| armax | I have been working with the drivers team to put together a provisional schedule for the neutorn sessions | 14:51 |
| ajo | #undo | 14:51 |
| ajo | sorry :( | 14:51 |
| ajo | was trying to link it right, my copy & paste does *not* work :( | 14:51 |
| ajo | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-mitaka-designsummit | 14:51 |
| * regXboi thinks only chair can #undo? | 14:51 | |
| armax | #undo | 14:52 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x98e91d0> | 14:52 |
| regXboi | one more armax | 14:52 |
| ajo | undo twice, sorry | 14:52 |
| armax | #undo | 14:52 |
| dougwig | regXboi is correct. | 14:52 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x99b8150> | 14:52 |
| armax | we good? | 14:52 |
| ajo | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-mitaka-designsummit | 14:52 |
| ajo | now yes :) | 14:52 |
| regXboi | now we are good | 14:52 |
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| armax | expect an email soon | 14:52 |
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| armax | about what the schedule is going to be about and how we are breaking down the various sessions | 14:53 |
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| armax | we’ll have a lightining talk session too | 14:53 |
| armax | and don’t forget that Friday is full day for community get together | 14:53 |
| armax | so if you haven’t booked your flights yet | 14:53 |
| ihrachys | will kevinbenton produce another talk about bad commits? | 14:53 |
| armax | consider staying late | 14:53 |
| ihrachys | or maybe BAD REVIEWS! | 14:53 |
| armax | ihrachys: no, we have the effective guide now ;) | 14:54 |
| ihrachys | armax: no fun | 14:54 |
| dougwig | i think ihrachys is implying that it's time to roast the reviewers. | 14:54 |
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| armax | kevinbenton: unless he wants to, but he doesn’t want to chair any session | 14:54 |
| ihrachys | dougwig: it's always that time | 14:54 |
| armax | anyhoo | 14:54 |
| dougwig | ihrachys: -1, sentence missing period. | 14:54 |
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| kevinbenton | -1 this sentence shouldn't have a period | 14:55 |
| * regXboi wonders who let the punctuation police into the meeting | 14:55 | |
| armax | yamini, ajo: please consider adding the topic on the on demanda agenda on | 14:55 |
| armax | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings | 14:55 |
| * dougwig thinks subtle humor is lost at this hour of the morning. | 14:55 | |
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| xgerman | Monday will be some FWaaS fun | 14:55 |
| ajo | armax, which topic? | 14:55 |
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| ihrachys | sigh. I think I have a flight back on Fri | 14:55 |
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| yamini | it it is | 14:55 |
| yamini | it is already there | 14:56 |
| armax | is it? | 14:56 |
| armax | I must have wiped it out | 14:56 |
| * regXboi doesn't see it | 14:56 | |
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| armax | blueprints are best discussed in gerring under neutron-specs | 14:56 |
| armax | btw | 14:56 |
| sc68cal | or the ML | 14:56 |
| armax | sc68cal: +1 | 14:57 |
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| armax | but yeah, we gotta figure out a way to leave more time for the open discussion section otherwise | 14:57 |
| regXboi | are we done? | 14:57 |
| amotoki | yamini: we are using RFE bugs rather than filing blueprint http://docs.openstack.org/developer/neutron/policies/blueprints.html i suggest you file a RFE bug so that we can be aware of it. | 14:57 |
| armax | having it is kinda missing the point | 14:57 |
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| armax | regXboi: I think we are nearly done, unless you can wrap up in 2 mins | 14:58 |
| hoangcx | amotoki: +1 | 14:58 |
| regXboi | armax: no - I can wait until next week | 14:58 |
| armax | ok folks | 14:59 |
| * regXboi has call to join now anyway :( | 14:59 | |
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| armax | we’re getting 1 min back | 14:59 |
| armax | thanks for joining | 14:59 |
| armax | #endmeeting | 14:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:59 | |
| emagana | ciao pescau! | 14:59 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 6 14:59:31 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:59 |
| sc68cal | cya | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-10-06-14.00.html | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-10-06-14.00.txt | 14:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-10-06-14.00.log.html | 14:59 |
| ajo | thanks! o/ | 14:59 |
| regXboi | aloha | 14:59 |
| hichihara | bye | 14:59 |
| amotoki | bye | 14:59 |
| pc_m | bye | 14:59 |
| hoangcx | bye | 14:59 |
| akamyshnikova_ | bye | 14:59 |
| dougwig | you robbed us of one minute! | 14:59 |
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| jlibosva | bye | 14:59 |
| kevinbenton | Bye | 14:59 |
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| markmcclain | bye | 15:00 |
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| yamamoto | bye | 15:00 |
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| vikram_ | bye | 15:00 |
| mestery | bye | 15:00 |
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| kevinbenton | armax: drivers meeting? | 15:01 |
| * carl_baldwin here | 15:02 | |
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| armax | not even a biobreak? | 15:04 |
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| armax | #startmeeting neutron-drivers | 15:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 6 15:04:09 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is armax. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron-drivers)" | 15:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers' | 15:04 |
| kevinbenton | #startvote what's for lunch | 15:04 |
| openstack | Only the meeting chair may start a vote. | 15:04 |
| * mestery waves | 15:04 | |
| dougwig | O/ | 15:05 |
| amotoki | hi | 15:05 |
| kevinbenton | dougwig, armax: it can be short | 15:05 |
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| kevinbenton | i think we just had more rfe's from last week to look at | 15:05 |
| kevinbenton | but we can defer if everyone is wiped out from that intense neutron meeting... | 15:05 |
| armax | sounds good | 15:05 |
| armax | kevinbenton: what intense neutron meeting? | 15:06 |
| kevinbenton | the one right before this one | 15:06 |
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| armax | #link v | 15:06 |
| armax | #undo | 15:06 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x98141d0> | 15:06 |
| armax | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.tag=rfe | 15:06 |
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| * carl_baldwin was just going ask what url shortener armax uses | 15:07 | |
| armax | is anyone of you guys thinking that this rfe process is working? | 15:07 |
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| armax | I can see that’s easier for some people to submit ideas | 15:07 |
| armax | so that’s a positive | 15:07 |
| armax | effect | 15:07 |
| amotoki | It is a bit difficult to track the status of each bugs. someone proposes a patch before we discuss it. | 15:08 |
| carl_baldwin | It helped for the routed networks request from operators. | 15:08 |
| HenryG | I think it's a little hard to track sometimes when multiple patches apply | 15:08 |
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| dougwig | i'm on record as preferring -specs, simply because the tooling is more queue oriented. i think the non-dev community prefers the rfe's. | 15:08 |
| carl_baldwin | There are deficiencies around the tooling. Launchpad isn’t quite geared for it. | 15:09 |
| kevinbenton | maybe we should just not allow patches to directly reference an RFE? | 15:09 |
| amotoki | it lowers the hurdle to request features. it is a good point of RFE. | 15:09 |
| amotoki | kevinbenton: +1 | 15:09 |
| kevinbenton | right, we need a way to allow features requests to be submitted but block the normal bug processes... | 15:10 |
| carl_baldwin | kevinbenton: I don’t have an opinion either way. Just wondering what that solves and what the alternative is. | 15:10 |
| HenryG | "Promote" an RFE to a blueprint when it is accepted? | 15:10 |
| kevinbenton | or maybe just have RFEs be filed as blueprints to begin with? | 15:10 |
| armax | I think the process has some benefits | 15:11 |
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| armax | but I would like to split the phases where we are asked to provide feedback | 15:11 |
| armax | and the phase where the actual work happens | 15:11 |
| armax | I don’t want RFE bugs linger for ever | 15:12 |
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| armax | so maybe once the drivers team ‘approves’/gives a thumb up we change the tag? | 15:13 |
| armax | from rfe to rfe-approved? | 15:13 |
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| armax | and move on? | 15:13 |
| armax | so that this list shrinks https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.tag=rfe | 15:13 |
| armax | if we are doing a good job at vetting stuff? | 15:13 |
| carl_baldwin | +1 to a shrinking list. | 15:13 |
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| armax | if people don’t pull their weight together | 15:13 |
| armax | there’s nothing we can do | 15:13 |
| kevinbenton | yeah, tag change sounds nice | 15:14 |
| armax | and I don’t want to look to have bugs I have already seen littering my dashboard | 15:14 |
| kevinbenton | that way people messing with the status don't interfere | 15:14 |
| armax | so if you guys think it’s a good idea | 15:14 |
| HenryG | +1 to tag change, good idea | 15:14 |
| amotoki | +1 for changing tags | 15:14 |
| armax | and since I am gonna have to make another policy change :) | 15:14 |
| carl_baldwin | +1 | 15:15 |
| armax | mestery: ^ | 15:15 |
| armax | and go over the bug list to tag those that we have already ‘blessed' | 15:15 |
| armax | so that we keep our sanity over time | 15:15 |
| kevinbenton | +! | 15:16 |
| dougwig | i like it, the status kludge is messy. | 15:16 |
| armax | hopefully this has no impact to users filing these RFE's | 15:17 |
| armax | so it’s not like we’re going backwards | 15:17 |
| kevinbenton | dougwig: the fact that you had to invent a decoder ring probably should have been a red flag :) | 15:17 |
| * mestery catches up | 15:17 | |
| armax | we’re making a positive iterative improvement | 15:17 |
| mestery | armax: I like that idea | 15:17 |
| armax | ok, I’ll do that right after this meeting | 15:18 |
| armax | put a patch up for you to review | 15:18 |
| mestery | armax: Good idea, it's a cleaner method, as dougwig said, the status kludge was messy | 15:18 |
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| armax | so do we want to call it ‘a day’ and wait for a cleaned list of bugs to talk about? | 15:18 |
| armax | hint hint | 15:18 |
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| * carl_baldwin okay with that | 15:18 | |
| armax | unless there’s something pressing I think we should discuss | 15:19 |
| HenryG | I would like to know about my rfe ... | 15:19 |
| armax | what about it? | 15:19 |
| kevinbenton | HenryG: which one? | 15:19 |
| amotoki | one question: how do we handle RFE for neutron subprojects? when it was submitted it was a reasonable RFE but now we have a separate project. | 15:19 |
| HenryG | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1501380 | 15:19 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1501380 in neutron "Evolution of options and features in neutron-db-manage" [Medium,Confirmed] | 15:19 |
| amotoki | HenryG: go ahead first | 15:19 |
| HenryG | Is that the wrong way to abuse an rfe? | 15:20 |
| armax | amotoki: if the RFE affects the Neutron sides of thing then we should keep it tracked in Neutron | 15:20 |
| HenryG | Should I file individual bugs? | 15:20 |
| armax | HenryG: probably | 15:20 |
| armax | amotoki: otherwise no | 15:20 |
| amotoki | armax: one example is https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1450617 | 15:20 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1450617 in neutron "Neutron extension to support service chaining" [Undecided,Triaged] - Assigned to cathy Hong Zhang (cathy-h-zhang) | 15:20 |
| armax | HenryG: it sounds to me that what you want to do is sensible no matter what | 15:21 |
| armax | HenryG: so you shouldn’t seek the oversight of the drivers team | 15:21 |
| armax | but the core team would do | 15:21 |
| armax | amotoki: me looks | 15:21 |
| HenryG | armax: OK, will do separate bugs instead. Thanks | 15:21 |
| armax | amotoki: ok, I’ll clean that one up | 15:21 |
| armax | amotoki: that was clearly filed when the subproject didn’t even exist | 15:22 |
| armax | that’s stuff that’s lingering and needs to be cleaned | 15:22 |
| armax | anything else? | 15:22 |
| vikram_ | amotoki: +1 | 15:22 |
| mestery | nothing from me | 15:22 |
| amotoki | armax: yes. I wonder how we handle it: which status is best: Invalid, Won't fix???? | 15:22 |
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| armax | amotoki: we can target the networking-sfct launchpad project | 15:23 |
| armax | and remove it from neutron | 15:23 |
| amotoki | ah.... good idea! | 15:23 |
| amotoki | I totally forgot this option. | 15:23 |
| armax | yup | 15:24 |
| dougwig | motion to adjourn? | 15:24 |
| armax | adjuourn | 15:24 |
| mestery | ++ | 15:24 |
| amotoki | ++ | 15:24 |
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| armax | #action I’ll polish the RFE bugs up too | 15:24 |
| armax | bear with me | 15:25 |
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| armax | #endmeeting | 15:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:25 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 6 15:25:21 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:25 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-10-06-15.04.html | 15:25 |
| armax | thanks for joining | 15:25 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-10-06-15.04.txt | 15:25 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-10-06-15.04.log.html | 15:25 |
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| armax | I don’t even get a goobye? | 15:26 |
| armax | bah | 15:26 |
| amotoki | bye | 15:26 |
| -amotoki- was caught in i18n channel | 15:26 | |
| armax | :) | 15:26 |
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| kevinbenton | armax: arrivederci | 15:27 |
| armax | ciao | 15:27 |
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| mhickey | devref | 16:50 |
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| breton | o/ | 17:59 |
| stevemar_ | o/ | 17:59 |
| * ayoung here | 18:00 | |
| dstanek | hi | 18:00 |
| marekd | hi | 18:00 |
| stevemar_ | heyooo | 18:00 |
| stevemar_ | lets do this! | 18:00 |
| stevemar_ | #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 6 18:00:35 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevemar_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| ayoung | Robot Rollcall! | 18:00 |
| stevemar_ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
| stevemar_ | oops | 18:00 |
| stevemar_ | courtesy ping | 18:00 |
| stevemar_ | ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, ericksonsantos, geoffarnold, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rharwood, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, claudiub | 18:00 |
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| amakarov | o/ | 18:01 |
| browne | o/ | 18:01 |
| stevemar_ | o\ | 18:01 |
| * bknudson does something | 18:01 | |
| david8hu | \o | 18:01 |
| topol | o/ | 18:01 |
| dstanek | o/ | 18:01 |
| * stevemar_ high five's bknudson | 18:01 | |
| htruta | o/ | 18:01 |
| * ayoung now has the MST3K themesong playing through his head | 18:01 | |
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| raildo | \o | 18:01 |
| henrynash | :-) | 18:01 |
| lhcheng_ | o/ | 18:01 |
| ayoung | henrynash, ! | 18:01 |
| stevemar_ | i'd say we have enough folks | 18:01 |
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| stevemar_ | henrynash: ayoung has been looking for you | 18:01 |
| ayoung | henrynash, I threw an item on the end of the agenda... | 18:02 |
| henrynash | (runs, hides) | 18:02 |
| ayoung | Virtual Roles | 18:02 |
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| stevemar_ | alright, good new to start | 18:02 |
| henrynash | ah-ah! | 18:02 |
| topol | run Forest run | 18:02 |
| stevemar_ | #topic RC status | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RC status (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| stevemar_ | we've cut rc2! | 18:02 |
| stevemar_ | yayyyyy | 18:02 |
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| henrynash | hay! | 18:02 |
| topol | CONGRATS | 18:02 |
| marekd | nice | 18:02 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 18:02 |
| ayoung | Any significant changes from RC1? | 18:02 |
| stevemar_ | unless there is an install / upgrade / crazy issue, this will be the last release for liberty | 18:03 |
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| stevemar_ | ayoung: 3 bugs, and translation: https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/liberty-rc2 | 18:03 |
| bknudson | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/log/?h=stable%2Fliberty | 18:03 |
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| ayoung | all good stuff | 18:03 |
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| stevemar_ | around the same topic, we have also release ksc 1.7.2 and ksm 2.3.1 for liberty | 18:04 |
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| bknudson | I only see 2 bug fixes in the git log | 18:04 |
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| lbragstad | this is everything that merged in stable/liberty so far - https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:merged+project:openstack/keystone+branch:stable/liberty,n,z | 18:04 |
| ayoung | 1) Skip rows with empty remote_ids 2) Show v3 endpoints in v2 endpoint list 3) Ensure token validation works irrespective of padding | 18:04 |
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| stevemar_ | bknudson: 1) skip rows, 2) padding, 3) v3 endpoints | 18:05 |
| ayoung | are those not all bugs? | 18:05 |
| bknudson | oh, the top one is in there | 18:05 |
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| * stevemar_ shakes fist at bknudson | 18:05 | |
| bknudson | so they're all there | 18:05 |
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| stevemar_ | thanks ayoung :) | 18:05 |
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| ayoung | stevemar_, that scares me. It is the first time i ever saw bknudson overlook a detail | 18:05 |
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| stevemar_ | regarding libs: so when we eventually release new stuff for mitaka, they'll be at 1.8.0 and 2.4.0 respectively | 18:05 |
| topol | he's slippin' | 18:06 |
| stevemar_ | he's human after all | 18:06 |
| marekd | stevemar_: who? | 18:06 |
| marekd | ! | 18:06 |
| ayoung | Not sure about that | 18:06 |
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| stevemar_ | marekd: bknudsonbot | 18:06 |
| marekd | stevemar_: no way! | 18:06 |
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| stevemar_ | gonna skip the 2nd topic for now (summit planning) | 18:06 |
| ayoung | what is the version number for ksa? | 18:06 |
| ayoung | nevermind | 18:07 |
| stevemar_ | ayoung: 1.0ish | 18:07 |
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| ayoung | ++ | 18:07 |
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| stevemar_ | ayoung: it was cut, but not too many things are using it | 18:07 |
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| ayoung | I saw the summit room breakdown email. Let me see if I can link it | 18:07 |
| dolphm | is that why releases haven't appeared on pypi? | 18:07 |
| stevemar_ | dolphm: of keystoneauth? | 18:08 |
| dolphm | stevemar_: yes | 18:08 |
| bknudson | #link https://pypi.python.org/pypi/keystoneauth | 18:08 |
| bknudson | says 0.2.0 | 18:08 |
| stevemar_ | that seems wrong | 18:08 |
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| bknudson | https://pypi.python.org/pypi/keystoneauth1 | 18:08 |
| bknudson | that's got 1.1.0 | 18:08 |
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| stevemar_ | ah right, it's keystoneauth1 | 18:08 |
| bknudson | I thought we'd want keystoneauth on pypi | 18:09 |
| ayoung | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-October/076000.html | 18:09 |
| dolphm | oh, f | 18:09 |
| dolphm | can we delete the old package? or update the README to point to the new one? | 18:09 |
| stevemar_ | dolphm: i can look into that | 18:09 |
| lbragstad | delete keystoneauth and point everyone to keystoneauth1 | 18:09 |
| lbragstad | right? | 18:09 |
| stevemar_ | yes | 18:09 |
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| topol | +++ | 18:09 |
| dolphm | if deleting things on pypi is acceptable, not sure it is | 18:09 |
| breton | or raise an exception in keystoneauth | 18:09 |
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| breton | saying "keystoneauth1" | 18:10 |
| stevemar_ | there's a few things we can do, i'm sure there is a right answer though | 18:10 |
| ayoung | #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tpLN5emWhcMmSmkn8z_HuclcjnEPevP77BhdnFN9KCs/pubhtml?gid=5&single=true Here is our room breakdown | 18:10 |
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| ayoung | https://mitakadesignsummit.sched.org/overview/type/Keystone#.VhQOp7P-TMU and its on sched .org already | 18:10 |
| stevemar_ | ayoung: hehe, hold up. | 18:11 |
| stevemar_ | any other q's on liberty or the surrounding libraries? | 18:11 |
| ayoung | Give me liberty or give me RC3 | 18:11 |
| stevemar_ | #topic ops feedback for summit | 18:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ops feedback for summit (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:12 | |
| bknudson | hopefully the ops will show up this time. | 18:12 |
| ayoung | Did we skip Design session planning? | 18:12 |
| stevemar_ | ayoung: just for a minute | 18:12 |
| ayoung | k | 18:12 |
| stevemar_ | ayoung: that is gonna be a long discussion, get the easy stuff in first | 18:12 |
| stevemar_ | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/TYO-ops-feedback-into-PWG | 18:12 |
| stevemar_ | add questions to that etherpad ^ | 18:12 |
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| ayoung | #link https://mitakadesignsummit.sched.org/overview/type/Ops#.VhQPKLP-TMU | 18:13 |
| stevemar_ | and if you're interested in going to the session: http://mitakadesignsummit.sched.org/event/1cdd373e1128b6c5f9536c00f461947a#.VhCyIhNVhBc | 18:13 |
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| stevemar_ | bknudson: i think it'll be more organized this time | 18:13 |
| breton | yeah, last time it was 15 developers vs 2 ops | 18:13 |
| stevemar_ | breton: yeah, i think they are doing a general session for all the ops to generate data on projects | 18:14 |
| dolphm | and for the record, the devs won | 18:14 |
| stevemar_ | so it's important to put questions on the etherpad | 18:14 |
| stevemar_ | dolphm: we always win | 18:14 |
| bknudson | we really put those operators in their place. | 18:14 |
| dolphm | i'd like to see ops win for a change | 18:14 |
| lbragstad | so, if you know people in ops that don't necessarily hangout on irc, poke them! | 18:14 |
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| stevemar_ | lbragstad: ++ | 18:14 |
| lbragstad | or at least pass them the info | 18:15 |
| stevemar_ | also for those interested, there is also this link going around: | 18:15 |
| stevemar_ | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/operator-local-patches | 18:15 |
| stevemar_ | a set of local patches that ops carry per project | 18:15 |
| stevemar_ | we're actually pretty good :) | 18:15 |
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| stevemar_ | anyway, try to be engaged in these sessions, they are crazy important | 18:16 |
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| bknudson | "Strip catalog from PKI token" | 18:16 |
| stevemar_ | bknudson: comment on the etherpad if you want | 18:17 |
| dolphm | ?nocatalog#implemented | 18:17 |
| stevemar_ | yep | 18:17 |
| lbragstad | it's the fernet? | 18:17 |
| lbragstad | isn't* | 18:17 |
| dolphm | it's always the fernet | 18:17 |
| stevemar_ | teh fehrnet | 18:17 |
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| morgan | Delete PKI token format *shiftyeyes* | 18:17 |
| dolphm | interface="furnet" | 18:18 |
| * lbragstad wanders off to learn to keyboard... | 18:18 | |
| gyee | y'all using PKI wrong | 18:18 |
| morgan | dolphm: i am scared what a furnet is | 18:18 |
| stevemar_ | alright alright :) | 18:18 |
| stevemar_ | #topic release notes | 18:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "release notes (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:18 | |
| stevemar_ | edit the wiki directly | 18:19 |
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| stevemar_ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Liberty#OpenStack_Identity_.28Keystone.29 | 18:19 |
| stevemar_ | review and edit please | 18:19 |
| stevemar_ | dolphm i know you did a lot for this already | 18:19 |
| stevemar_ | and thanks :D | 18:19 |
| stevemar_ | samueldmq: you too! | 18:19 |
| dolphm | ++ | 18:20 |
| stevemar_ | apparently this is a buzz kill of a topic | 18:20 |
| ayoung | lets not make any changes to PKI tokens; lets just work on deprecating them | 18:20 |
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| ayoung | there are too many problems to fix | 18:20 |
| dolphm | \o/ yay release notes | 18:20 |
| stevemar_ | ayoung: ++ | 18:20 |
| dstanek | ayoung: ++ | 18:20 |
| stevemar_ | dolphm: thanks for trying :) | 18:20 |
| stevemar_ | alright, on to the fun stuff! | 18:20 |
| ayoung | and the primary reason PKI tokens were even written is replaced by K2K and SAML. | 18:20 |
| stevemar_ | ayoung: it's time | 18:20 |
| ayoung | Summit planning time? | 18:21 |
| stevemar_ | #topic design sessions | 18:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "design sessions (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:21 | |
| ayoung | where is our etherpad? | 18:21 |
| bknudson | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-mitaka-summit-brainstorm | 18:21 |
| lbragstad | we had one here #Link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-mitaka-summit-brainstorm | 18:21 |
| ayoung | thanks | 18:21 |
| stevemar_ | ayoung: so far i have the brain dump ... fineeee bknudson and lbragstad | 18:21 |
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| ayoung | Can we make one session that is KSA, KSM and KSC? | 18:22 |
| ayoung | lets start thinking in buckets for these things. we have 14 top level topics | 18:22 |
| stevemar_ | so before we start penciling in stuff | 18:22 |
| lbragstad | so a session dedicated to non-server related keystone libraries | 18:22 |
| marekd | who added bullet 14.3 ? | 18:22 |
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| stevemar_ | we have 7 fishbowl sessions | 18:22 |
| ayoung | marekd, I did | 18:23 |
| stevemar_ | these are the ones that are group discussion | 18:23 |
| samueldmq | stevemar_: hello, sorry I am late | 18:23 |
| samueldmq | stevemar_: no problem :) | 18:23 |
| stevemar_ | 4 workroom sessions | 18:23 |
| marekd | ayoung: ack | 18:23 |
| stevemar_ | and 2 meetup sessions (same as last) | 18:23 |
| stevemar_ | workrooms are the boardroom style ones | 18:23 |
| lbragstad | I feel like tokens and tokenless auth could be grouped | 18:23 |
| stevemar_ | and fishbowls are the ones we've done for a while | 18:24 |
| ayoung | marekd, probably we can mix that in with something else. Consumption of notifications needs to be addressed in a few places...its really cross project type stuff | 18:24 |
| morgan | And fishbowl rooms are much larger | 18:24 |
| stevemar_ | samueldmq: np, and hello | 18:24 |
| lbragstad | both goals for those two sessions are getting it to be the default in devstack | 18:24 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, ++ | 18:24 |
| marekd | ayoung: yes | 18:24 |
| stevemar_ | lbragstad: true | 18:24 |
| morgan | Fyi in tokyo expect the work rooms to be small | 18:24 |
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| morgan | Very small | 18:24 |
| topol | how small? | 18:24 |
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| bknudson | also, you have to take your shoes off and sit on the floor. | 18:25 |
| morgan | I think the target was ~8-10 people | 18:25 |
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| gyee | really? | 18:25 |
| stevemar_ | topol: prison sized | 18:25 |
| ayoung_ | gyee, really. but just you | 18:25 |
| gyee | bknudson, you ain't kidding | 18:25 |
| marekd | bknudson: and put on another shoes when going to toilet (yes, really) | 18:25 |
| bknudson | we're probably going to have to wander off to another area to work | 18:25 |
| ayoung_ | http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/07/02/article-2353514-1A9F4E55000005DC-736_634x436.jpg | 18:25 |
| gyee | wow | 18:25 |
| morgan | The only reason any work rooms were requested was to have some general purpose time | 18:26 |
| dolphm | ayoung_: are we staying at the same hotel?? | 18:26 |
| marekd | bknudson: 12.1 - what's incorrect right now? | 18:26 |
| morgan | Otherwise I would have requested only fishbowls | 18:26 |
| morgan | (Since I was the one who had to make the requests for room allocation) | 18:26 |
| lbragstad | could we address topic 5 in 8 (keystone server)? | 18:26 |
| ayoung_ | lbragstad, ++ | 18:27 |
| bknudson | marekd: according to mtreinish the keystone functional tests should require checking something in the backend database. | 18:27 |
| gyee | lbragstad, yeah, if we are talking about server deprecations | 18:27 |
| bknudson | not just be a test that uses devstack. | 18:27 |
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| * breton doesn't see 5 in 8, sees only 3 | 18:28 | |
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| stevemar_ | so, the workrooms, anyone have a suggestion about one of the things from the etherpad that can be dumped there? | 18:28 |
| lbragstad | gyee: ++ yeah, we'll have to cover deprecations for the ksm, ksc, ksa bits, too | 18:28 |
| dstanek | bknudson: what sort of checking? | 18:28 |
| dolphm | bknudson: that's super odd | 18:28 |
| marekd | bknudson: so affter adding entity i should write a code that queries backend and checks if that's there? | 18:28 |
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| stevemar_ | i was thinking that testing could be a workroom session | 18:28 |
| bknudson | dstanek: in the case of nova, it's like checking something in libvirt I would guess. In keystone it might be something like checking that the entry was created in ldap | 18:29 |
| dolphm | i care about how the interface behaves, not what the interface does on the backend. | 18:29 |
| gyee | then why do we need func tests? | 18:29 |
| bknudson | dolphm: that's how I interpreted functional tests at first, too, but mtreinish said that was incorrect. | 18:29 |
| ayoung_ | dolphm, yeah...this sounds like a lead in to fragile tests | 18:29 |
| dstanek | bknudson: if the test is to creates something then we'll probably check for it. other than that i don't see what we'd be doing. | 18:29 |
| dolphm | if tests are dependent on true implementation details, then they need to be rewritten in order to do refactors, which means the tests are fragile and completely useless. | 18:29 |
| dolphm | ayoung_: ++ | 18:30 |
| ayoung_ | functional tests exercise the backend, but do not check for implementation details | 18:30 |
| dstanek | definitely not hitting the DB directly | 18:30 |
| dolphm | dstanek: ++ | 18:30 |
| dstanek | dolphm: ayoung_: ++ | 18:30 |
| stevemar_ | dolphm: dstanek ayoung_ i think we're all in agreement on that | 18:30 |
| dstanek | i want the same tests to run against any backend (with the exceptions i noted in my documentation) | 18:30 |
| ayoung_ | Now, having two distinct servers running that talk to the same backend is a viable test setup, but it would be expensive. | 18:31 |
| bknudson | I suggest you bring this up with the -qa team and figure out what the alternative is. | 18:31 |
| dolphm | ++ | 18:31 |
| morgan | Etherpad on mobile has gotten bad :( | 18:31 |
| stevemar_ | morgan: :( | 18:31 |
| dolphm | the alternative is not writing "unit" tests against the database and calling it "functional" | 18:31 |
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| ayoung_ | So stevemar_ what are we looking for here: big buckets for big rooms and small buckets for small rooms? | 18:31 |
| stevemar_ | this has gone way off topic :\ | 18:31 |
| dstanek | bknudson: where was this discussed? | 18:32 |
| bknudson | dstanek: they have had summit sessions on it that I wasn't able to attend, so I got learned on irc. | 18:32 |
| stevemar_ | ayoung_: yes, big topic for fishbowl rooms and smaller topics for workrooms | 18:32 |
| lbragstad | stevemar_: do you want to have things consolidated yet? | 18:32 |
| bknudson | maybe for the workrooms we find some things that a few of us want to work on. | 18:32 |
| bknudson | for example, I'd be interested in test refactoring | 18:33 |
| bknudson | maybe documentation for the libs | 18:33 |
| stevemar_ | lbragstad: i can easily consolidate and pick things, i wanted to give the core team a chance to say "I want this topic to be a fishbowl" | 18:33 |
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| stevemar_ | or "I want this topic to be a workroom" | 18:33 |
| breton | oh, I'd love to see test refactoring. | 18:33 |
| stevemar_ | I think anything that touches another project should not be a workroom, since that's hard to schedule | 18:34 |
| ayoung_ | 5 fishbowl room sessions 5 Work room sessions ? | 18:34 |
| ayoung_ | Do I have that right | 18:34 |
| morgan | 7 fishbowl for us, 4 workroom | 18:34 |
| stevemar_ | ayoung_: no, 7 fish, 4 work | 18:34 |
| henrynash | the whole policy/roles direction would be another | 18:34 |
| lbragstad | catalog standardization has been a theme in the last couple summits | 18:34 |
| lbragstad | that'd probably benefit from being a fishbowl | 18:34 |
| stevemar_ | lbragstad: thats gonna be a X-project one | 18:34 |
| stevemar_ | so don't even count it on here | 18:34 |
| lbragstad | cool | 18:35 |
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| ayoung_ | Roles and Policy need to be cross project attended | 18:35 |
| gyee | ayoung_, ++ | 18:35 |
| ayoung_ | We need buy in, especially from Nova, if we are going to make any progress | 18:35 |
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| stevemar_ | yep | 18:35 |
| stevemar_ | i think "things to deprecate and remove" and "testing" can be working rooms? | 18:36 |
| samueldmq | ayoung_: ++ | 18:36 |
| lbragstad | federation as it's own fishbowl i assume | 18:36 |
| stevemar_ | anyone disagree? | 18:36 |
| ayoung_ | ++ | 18:36 |
| lbragstad | there is a *lot* of stuff under those | 18:36 |
| stevemar_ | actually... deprecation... we might need input from others | 18:36 |
| bknudson | The times were 40 mins right? | 18:36 |
| ayoung_ | is federation even that much a hot topic anymore? Its kindof implemented. There are details like making them apping easier to work with...openid connect. | 18:36 |
| ayoung_ | OK..yeah, that is fishbowl | 18:37 |
| bknudson | We didn't get much done in the 40 min sessions last time. | 18:37 |
| dstanek | stevemar_: i would agree since i think those are more likely topics that we'll work on and not just discuss | 18:37 |
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| stevemar_ | basically the contentious ones, I want to make fishbowls | 18:37 |
| dolphm | ayoung_: it should be more of a cross-project topic this time around. horizon + keystone + openstackclient + etc | 18:37 |
| stevemar_ | dolphm: yep | 18:37 |
| ayoung_ | dolphm, ah, good. | 18:37 |
| lbragstad | I'd agree with that | 18:37 |
| dolphm | stevemar_: is there room for that in the cross-project schedule at this point? | 18:37 |
| dolphm | (federation) | 18:37 |
| stevemar_ | dolphm: i dont think it's finalized yet | 18:38 |
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| stevemar_ | I could ask for it | 18:38 |
| dolphm | stevemar_: ++ | 18:38 |
| anteaya | I think cross project schedule is on today's tc meeting agenda | 18:39 |
| dstanek | i'll throw this out as a general OpenStack criticism - the x-project initiatives need an x-project team otherwise they'll either never get done or take forever | 18:39 |
| dolphm | anteaya: awesome, thanks | 18:39 |
| gyee | dstanek, so true :) | 18:39 |
| dolphm | dstanek: that's (unfortunately?) true | 18:39 |
| anteaya | dolphm: confirmed | 18:39 |
| dolphm | our first round of cross project sessions was a lot of tossing responsibilities over the fence | 18:40 |
| anteaya | I think growing folks to do cross project work is part of what ttx is trying to get the tc to do | 18:40 |
| dolphm | some number of summits ago | 18:40 |
| dstanek | anteaya: nice | 18:40 |
| stevemar_ | that would be cool to see | 18:40 |
| anteaya | but the electorate has to elect folks who aren't currently booked with ptl duties to do so | 18:40 |
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| anteaya | so far, that hasn't happened a lot | 18:40 |
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| anteaya | here's hoping | 18:40 |
| bknudson | hey, we made v3 available it's their own fault if they don't use it. | 18:41 |
| dstanek | we really need OpenStack initiatives and construct a team of the right people - not a project saying we are doing this x-project thing so listen up | 18:41 |
| * anteaya agrees, having come into the middle of the conversation | 18:41 | |
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| stevemar_ | ayoung_: dolphm dstanek -- everyone>> my current picks: http://paste.openstack.org/show/475509/ | 18:42 |
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| lbragstad | so, almost everything either has 'fishbowl' or 'workroom' next to it | 18:42 |
| stevemar_ | lbragstad: ^ | 18:43 |
| lbragstad | is paste.o.o slow for anyone else today? | 18:43 |
| samueldmq | dstanek: ++ that looks to have happened to dynamic policies too, when ayoung_ had setions, and it seemed that people form other projects just didn't appear | 18:43 |
| ayoung_ | yep | 18:43 |
| marekd | lbragstad: yes | 18:43 |
| stevemar_ | i think we got everything on the paste | 18:43 |
| lbragstad | stevemar_: you want federation to be a x-project fishbowl if we have the time, right? | 18:43 |
| stevemar_ | lbragstad: i'd prefer that | 18:44 |
| stevemar_ | but in case, i can use one of ours | 18:44 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: yes, takes a long time to load | 18:44 |
| lbragstad | stevemar_: ok, marked it as such in the etherpad | 18:44 |
| gyee | stevemar_, and audit? | 18:45 |
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| gyee | its a small A of the AAA after all | 18:45 |
| stevemar_ | lbragstad: if anything i would like to have another random cross-project fishbowl session | 18:45 |
| ayoung_ | stevemar_, so Policy can be policy and roles...and with that, I'd like to ask for the last 10 minutes of this meeting to be aboutt roles stuff | 18:45 |
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| morgan | gyee: we are more IAM + audit than AAA now | 18:45 |
| lbragstad | stevemar_: so, should we put an action item under Federation to check on the status of getting a x-project slot for that? | 18:45 |
| stevemar_ | ayoung_: that's fine with me, still 5 minutes left | 18:45 |
| stevemar_ | err 15 | 18:46 |
| ayoung_ | ++ | 18:46 |
| stevemar_ | lbragstad: yep | 18:46 |
| dstanek | stevemar_: i'm happy with that list so far | 18:46 |
| stevemar_ | i'll be doing that as i look to make sure the service catalog is coming out of x-project fishbowl and not ours | 18:46 |
| ayoung_ | ++ | 18:46 |
| stevemar_ | gyee: audit might be a working room | 18:46 |
| ayoung_ | would love to move the service catalog to DNS | 18:46 |
| stevemar_ | i'd prefer to have the last fishbowl for general crossproject stuff | 18:47 |
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| stevemar_ | so no red flags here right? | 18:47 |
| dstanek | ayoung_: i started a little project to test that out | 18:47 |
| stevemar_ | no one is feeling short changed? | 18:47 |
| stevemar_ | everything is groovy | 18:47 |
| ayoung_ | Performing | 18:47 |
| stevemar_ | and with that, let the battle begin, ayoung_ and henrynash lace up | 18:48 |
| ayoung_ | Heh | 18:48 |
| stevemar_ | #topic roles | 18:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roles (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:48 | |
| * dstanek grabs some popcorn and a beer | 18:48 | |
| henrynash | (I think not much of a battle, actually!) | 18:48 |
| ayoung_ | henrynash, so...aside from naming, I think we are on the same page | 18:48 |
| * lbragstad grabs a seat next to dstanek | 18:48 | |
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| stevemar_ | http://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/59486625.jpg | 18:48 |
| ayoung_ | gyee, role groups ayoung_ implied roles henrynash virtual roles | 18:48 |
| ayoung_ | but I think we all want roughly the same thing: | 18:48 |
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| ayoung_ | assing one role, get many... | 18:49 |
| ayoung_ | that is the subset of henrynash 's blueprint | 18:49 |
| gyee | is assing a word? | 18:49 |
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| lbragstad | it is now | 18:49 |
| dolphm | gyee: it's the subset | 18:49 |
| ayoung_ | yes, but only halfway | 18:49 |
| gyee | hahahah | 18:49 |
| ayoung_ | I guess I half-assigned that | 18:49 |
| * gyee learn something new today | 18:49 | |
| ayoung_ | anyway | 18:50 |
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| ayoung_ | henrynash, you also have the domain specific roles part, which is, I think 2 parts: | 18:50 |
| ayoung_ | 1 namespacing of roles | 18:50 |
| henrynash | yes | 18:50 |
| ayoung_ | 2. certain roles don't go in tokens | 18:50 |
| ayoung_ | so..if we do implied roles first (expanded in the tokens) can we build the other things on top of it? | 18:50 |
| henrynash | correct (maybe “management roles” woudl be a better name for those) | 18:50 |
| ayoung_ | henrynash, I was thinking virtual roles would be "roles that imply other roles but that never end up in tokens themselves: | 18:51 |
| ayoung_ | " | 18:51 |
| gyee | all I am asking is usability | 18:51 |
| dstanek | dumb question...does this concept already exist in some other product? | 18:51 |
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| ayoung_ | dstanek, all over the place | 18:51 |
| henrynash | ayoung_: sure, that’s what I meant by them too….but most people don;t like virtual roles (and I’m not sure I do either) | 18:51 |
| ayoung_ | dstanek, the reason gyee keeps using the term role groups is that is what MS calls it (at least) | 18:52 |
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| henrynash | and the very first bp I wrote called them role-groups! | 18:52 |
| ayoung_ | henrynash, fair enough. I'll defer on the naming. | 18:52 |
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| henrynash | and I’m Ok with taht name too | 18:52 |
| morgan | Role-groups is pretty descriptive | 18:52 |
| morgan | And not overloaded | 18:52 |
| morgan | Fwiw | 18:52 |
| morgan | Descriptive and not overloaded = good option | 18:53 |
| henrynash | so implied roles…..just means expand this role-group and put all the roles in the token? | 18:53 |
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| morgan | I would err to the side of something that people are familiar with. If MS uses "role groups" that is a pretty good option imo | 18:54 |
| morgan | henrynash: i think thst is an inplementation detail | 18:54 |
| ayoung_ | henrynash, well, I was thinking that a role is either in the token or not. an implied role means "If I get this role I get this other one too" | 18:54 |
| henrynash | morgan: and I’m fine with that | 18:54 |
| ayoung_ | so I had them as two dimentions on the role object | 18:54 |
| morgan | Either way it could work regardless of the name | 18:54 |
| morgan | So either you expand or you dont. I dont think it matters | 18:54 |
| ayoung_ | arole group could be "a role that does not go into a token" | 18:54 |
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| henrynash | ayoung_: agreed | 18:55 |
| lbragstad | 5 minutes remaining | 18:55 |
| samueldmq | openstackbot info: 5 mins left | 18:55 |
| samueldmq | lbragstad: o/ | 18:55 |
| ayoung_ | so if we give someone "admin" they get "member" and both go into the token | 18:55 |
| dolphm | how are roles groups inherited in hierarchical multitenancy? | 18:55 |
| gyee | we just need something that is "easy" to explain to average users, "easy" for doc people, "easy" to use | 18:55 |
| * dolphm sorry. | 18:55 | |
| morgan | ayoung_: yeah. I think your spot on lets defer impl details like expansion for not in this meetinf | 18:55 |
| ayoung_ | but if we give someon "IBM-DISTINGUISHED_ENGINEER" that is a roel group and it does not go in the token | 18:55 |
| henrynash | gyee: absolutely +++++ | 18:55 |
| ayoung_ | morgan, I think we are good | 18:55 |
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| morgan | ayoung_: yah agreed :) | 18:55 |
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| henrynash | ayoung_: ok, so namespacing | 18:56 |
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| ayoung_ | OK...we can battle out the rest of the details at the summit, but I want a goal of having the spec approved before we leave Japan | 18:56 |
| henrynash | ayoung_: agreed | 18:56 |
| ayoung_ | namespacing...yeah, that is tricky. | 18:56 |
| ayoung_ | can we do it in this order: | 18:57 |
| bknudson | collect everyone's passport until spec is approved | 18:57 |
| henrynash | ayoung_: I think that’s the hardest bit, I agree….if you namespec a role that goes ina token…what does that mean? | 18:57 |
| ayoung_ | henrynash, right, one of two things | 18:57 |
| morgan | bknudson: i think that is mordred's plan for some other sessions :P | 18:57 |
| ayoung_ | 1. namespace to a domain, don;'t put it in the token. 2. Namespace to a service... | 18:57 |
| stevemar_ | bknudson: haha | 18:57 |
| mordred | what did I do? | 18:57 |
| ayoung_ | so nova:admin is different from swift:admin | 18:57 |
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| ayoung_ | and that shoudl be expanded later? | 18:57 |
| henrynash | ayoung_: namespacing a role_group to a domain (say) makes a lot of sense (to me)…..and doesn’t affect that types of role that end up in the token | 18:58 |
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| ayoung_ | so the related spec (we don't have time for ) is this one | 18:58 |
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| samueldmq | henrynash: yes because role-groups never go in the token | 18:58 |
| ayoung_ | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/228477/ | 18:58 |
| ayoung_ | I see you -1 ed it. have not looked yet | 18:58 |
| ayoung_ | henrynash, so get a sketch of your approach up | 18:59 |
| henrynash | ayoung_: I only -1’d since I am going to post an alternative so we can comapre | 18:59 |
| henrynash | will do | 18:59 |
| ayoung_ | and with that, I cede the floor | 18:59 |
| stevemar_ | and we're up | 18:59 |
| stevemar_ | excellent timing | 18:59 |
| stevemar_ | #endmeeting | 18:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 6 18:59:40 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-10-06-18.00.html | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-10-06-18.00.txt | 18:59 |
| stevemar_ | thanks everyone! | 18:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-10-06-18.00.log.html | 18:59 |
| fungi | infra team: assemble! | 19:00 |
| stevemar_ | the room now belongs to the infra folks o/ | 19:00 |
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| SotK | o/ | 19:00 |
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| pleia2 | o/ | 19:00 |
| clarkb | hello | 19:00 |
| Zara | o/ | 19:00 |
| Clint | o/ | 19:00 |
| asselin | o/ | 19:00 |
| anton_haldin | o/ | 19:00 |
| Shrews | ahoy | 19:00 |
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| yolanda | o/ | 19:00 |
| crinkle | o/ | 19:00 |
| AJaeger | o/ | 19:01 |
| jeblair | yellow | 19:01 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:01 |
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| mmedvede | o/ | 19:01 |
| anteaya | blue | 19:01 |
| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 6 19:01:16 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:01 |
| rfolco | o/ | 19:01 |
| dougwig | o/ | 19:01 |
| ruagair | o/ | 19:01 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:01 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:01 |
| mmmpork | o/ | 19:01 |
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| krtaylor | o/ | 19:01 |
| fungi | #topic Announcements: Stackforge namespace retirement | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements: Stackforge namespace retirement (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Stackforge_Namespace_Retirement | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | (i still need to send a follup mail; hoping to do that today) | 19:02 |
| fungi | just a reminder, this is still scheduled for october 17 | 19:02 |
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| fungi | thanks jeblair | 19:02 |
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| fungi | #action jeblair send followup reminder to lagging stackforge projects about namespace retirement | 19:03 |
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| anteaya | did we ever set a time on oct 17? | 19:03 |
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| anteaya | or shall we discuss that later? | 19:03 |
| fungi | we can discuss it now i suppose | 19:03 |
| * anteaya notes we are still in announcemnents | 19:03 | |
| fungi | if we keep it brief | 19:03 |
| anteaya | anyone have any thoughts about what time gerrit should go offline? | 19:03 |
| fungi | 18:00 utc? | 19:03 |
| anteaya | wfm | 19:04 |
| fungi | who expects to be working on it? | 19:04 |
| anteaya | me | 19:04 |
| mmmpork | how is the project name change going to be run? | 19:04 |
| fungi | we probably want to leave ourselves plenty of time given the scale of the change | 19:04 |
| jeblair | me, and 1800 works, so does earlier | 19:04 |
| anteaya | fungi: I'm guessing about 2 hours downtime anyway | 19:04 |
| jeblair | (but we also might need extended prep before, so maybe not schedule the outage too early) | 19:04 |
| fungi | i didn't want to pick something too early for west-coasters | 19:04 |
| anteaya | is that too much? | 19:04 |
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| mordred | o/ | 19:05 |
| fungi | though if SergeyLukjanov, yolanda or jhesketh are wanting to pitch in on the maintenance we can consider less americentric windows | 19:05 |
| mmmpork | also have we defined a verification process for checking the change result before it goes live? | 19:05 |
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| mordred | (on a plane, landing in 30 minutes, fwiw) | 19:05 |
| pleia2 | I'll be on a flight to japan during the rename, so one less west-coaster to worry about | 19:06 |
| jeblair | mordred: are you indicating you are here, or that you will be around on oct 17? :) | 19:06 |
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| anteaya | pleia2: thanks for letting us know, safe travels | 19:06 |
| jeblair | pleia2: that sounds fun, we should all go | 19:06 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: yeah, let's do it | 19:06 |
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| fungi | for those without a calendar (or the `cal` utility) handy, keep in mind this is one week from saturday | 19:06 |
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| yolanda | fungi, i cannot be here on 17th october, i have some family appointments. But thanks for the consideration, and i'll try to help in other future tasks | 19:07 |
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| anteaya | fungi: looks like it is you me and jeblair so far | 19:07 |
| fungi | yolanda: no problem. i'm sure we have lots of people on hand, and thanks for the heads up | 19:07 |
| anteaya | I'll do as much prep as I can | 19:07 |
| mmmpork | i'll be around for it | 19:07 |
| mmmpork | but i'd like some answers to the questions i just asked :) | 19:07 |
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| clarkb | I will be around | 19:08 |
| fungi | okay, to rephrase. any objections to 18:00 utc (or think there's a better time)? | 19:08 |
| anteaya | no objections | 19:08 |
| clarkb | 1800 wfm | 19:08 |
| mmmpork | no objections here | 19:09 |
| fungi | #agreed Stackforge namespace retirement maintenance will commence at 18:00 UTC, Saturday, October 17 | 19:09 |
| vmbrasseur | mmmpork Those are great questions. | 19:09 |
| fungi | mmmpork: non-scheduling-related questions can be handled later in the meeting or in #-infra | 19:09 |
| * ruagair is around too | 19:09 | |
| mmmpork | fungi: ok thanks :) | 19:09 |
| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:09 | |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-09-29-19.01.html | 19:10 |
| fungi | Clint: write script to prepare layout.yaml change for migration | 19:10 |
| Clint | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/228002/ | 19:10 |
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| Clint | and as sample "output" for a subset of names and using an earlier patchset, there's | 19:10 |
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| Clint | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/229601/ | 19:10 |
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| mordred | jeblair: sorry, that was an indication of my skills at attneding thi smeeting. I will be here on the 17th | 19:10 |
| fungi | cool, thanks Clint! (and anteaya and mmmpork who seem to be the primary reviewers so far) | 19:11 |
| jeblair | mordred: woot :) | 19:11 |
| anteaya | that output used patchset 12 of the script | 19:11 |
| jeblair | does that script cover all the necessary files now? | 19:11 |
| mmmpork | i've added some unit test coverage so we can check the file names we are changing and the data we'll be writing out | 19:11 |
| jeblair | (i mean, as far as we know :) | 19:11 |
| Clint | as far as i know | 19:11 |
| mmmpork | jeblair: idk does it? ;) | 19:11 |
| anteaya | jeblair: patchset 12 looked fine to me | 19:11 |
| anteaya | jeblair: as far as I know | 19:11 |
| mmmpork | there's a test that i wrote that lists the files we're changing | 19:12 |
| jeblair | mmmpork: exactly :) rephrased: i take it there are no known omissions at this point? | 19:12 |
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| mmmpork | if someone could take the time to review that and make sure our expectation are covered there, that would be great | 19:12 |
| Clint | the only known issue at this time is that some comments will need to be replaced by hand | 19:12 |
| anteaya | Clint: in gerrbot/channels.yaml | 19:12 |
| Clint | right | 19:13 |
| mmmpork | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/228002/27/tools/tests/mass_rename_projects_unit_test.py | 19:13 |
| fungi | the sample change looks good on a brief pass. was there a plan to handle the sql update queries? | 19:13 |
| anteaya | as noted in the commit message in the script | 19:13 |
| Clint | fungi: no, i thought that might be done by the ansible stuff, which i haven't seen | 19:13 |
| fungi | jasondotstar: that's what you were hacking on? | 19:13 |
| anteaya | fungi: as far as I know the sql queries were not part of this script | 19:13 |
| Clint | i was thinking this script would not extend outside the boundaries of the project-config repo | 19:14 |
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| anteaya | Clint: well so far it doesn't | 19:14 |
| Clint | right | 19:14 |
| mmmpork | do we have a checklist somewhere of all the pieces that need to be updated? | 19:14 |
| anteaya | so many steps on of the workflow are not automated | 19:14 |
| Clint | mmmpork: there's https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/project-renames-Septemeber-2015 | 19:15 |
| fungi | oh! right, i skimmed and misread the git mv commands comment you added | 19:15 |
| jeblair | Clint, mmmpork: and http://docs.openstack.org/infra/system-config/gerrit.html#renaming-a-project | 19:15 |
| anteaya | fungi: yes I did to at first | 19:15 |
| anteaya | fungi: thos commands are for the acl file path renames | 19:15 |
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| anteaya | which Clint will run by hand before submitted the patch to be merged | 19:15 |
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| jeblair | if we don't have an ansible thing, we have fungi's "script that outputs the sql" we could use | 19:16 |
| fungi | so, anyway, if worse come to worse we have that already scripted (more or less) | 19:16 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/222726 | 19:16 |
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| anteaya | ast you can see in the sample output | 19:16 |
| anteaya | #link script sample output https://review.openstack.org/#/c/229601/ | 19:16 |
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| mmmpork | so i'm seeing a bunch of things in a bunch of different places for this project | 19:16 |
| fungi | okay, seems like we're on track then | 19:16 |
| anteaya | jeblair: yeah I haven't seen one yet and haven't looked at sample output | 19:16 |
| anteaya | fungi: I feel comfortable with where the patch should be | 19:17 |
| mmmpork | and it's still not clear how we're going to do a test run and verify before pushing this change | 19:17 |
| anteaya | fungi: you okay to create the working etherpad for this? | 19:17 |
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| fungi | anteaya: yeah, though for sanity it may make sense to not paste the filesystem and database updates into the etherpad directly | 19:17 |
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| anteaya | agreed | 19:18 |
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| anteaya | I'm open to however you want to address running those steps | 19:18 |
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| fungi | #action fungi start maintenance plan etherpad for stackforge retirement | 19:18 |
| anteaya | as long as we can have the steps noted for when they are done | 19:18 |
| anteaya | thanks | 19:18 |
| fungi | we had one other action item from the last meeting... | 19:19 |
| fungi | jhesketh: look into why the swift upload indices are still not appearing | 19:19 |
| fungi | jhesketh may not be around | 19:19 |
| fungi | anybody happen to know the status on this? | 19:19 |
| anteaya | fungi: do you have a new cpu fan for your workstation? | 19:19 |
| * anteaya does not know the status of swift upload indices | 19:20 | |
| fungi | anteaya: nope, i'll have contingencies in place this time | 19:20 |
| anteaya | fungi: wonderful | 19:20 |
| mordred | fungi: we've started our descent - sorry, hav eto drop | 19:20 |
| Clint | btw, the project-config script takes a different input format from the one in https://review.openstack.org/222726 | 19:20 |
| anteaya | mordred: safe landing | 19:20 |
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| clarkb | fungi: its working now | 19:20 |
| anteaya | clarkb: yay | 19:20 |
| fungi | clarkb: excellent | 19:20 |
| clarkb | however we did run into some problems | 19:21 |
| fungi | jhesketh: when you see this, thanks for getting it working! | 19:21 |
| clarkb | swiftclient is not following semver | 19:21 |
| clarkb | so we had to downgrade our swiftclient install | 19:21 |
| fungi | ahh, so we hit a backward incompatibility? | 19:21 |
| clarkb | because newer version introduced a nonbackward compatible type change | 19:21 |
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| clarkb | fungi: ya | 19:21 |
| fungi | that's unfortunate | 19:21 |
| clarkb | we have pinned swiftcleint in os-loganalyze and it should all be fine until we are ready to support the new thing and upgrade though | 19:22 |
| clarkb | but that was a really fun evening | 19:22 |
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| fungi | i can imagine | 19:22 |
| anteaya | I remember it | 19:22 |
| anteaya | late you were | 19:22 |
| fungi | okay, moving on then... | 19:22 |
| fungi | #topic Specs approval | 19:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:22 | |
| fungi | #info approved "Host a CI systems monitoring dashboard" spec | 19:22 |
| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/deploy-ci-dashboard.html | 19:23 |
| fungi | #info approved "JJB 2.0.0 API Changes" spec | 19:23 |
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| notmyname | clarkb: that is unfortunate and not intended. I'd love follow-up (outside of your meeting is fine) | 19:23 |
| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/jenkins-job-builder_2.0.0-api-changes.html | 19:23 |
| clarkb | notmyname: can do | 19:23 |
| fungi | #topic Specs approval: StoryBoard Worklists and Boards (SotK) | 19:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: StoryBoard Worklists and Boards (SotK) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:23 | |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/202989 | 19:23 |
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| SotK | This spec has been hanging around without activity for a month and I'd like to get it approved so that we can merge patches to implement it. | 19:24 |
| SotK | The work I've done on implementing the spec so far can be seen at http://185.98.149.23/#!/ if people are interested in seeing it. | 19:24 |
| jeblair | ooh green | 19:24 |
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| fungi | any objections to setting a 48-hour deadline to register concern over that spec? | 19:25 |
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| jeblair | nope, looks like ttx has seen it which was the only thing i was going to offer | 19:25 |
| clarkb | none here | 19:26 |
| anteaya | no objections | 19:26 |
| fungi | #info voting open on "StoryBoard Worklists and Boards" spec until 2015-10-08 19:00 UTC | 19:26 |
| clarkb | I am happy for those interested in storyboard to drive their own direction too fwiw | 19:26 |
| fungi | same here, glad to see it surviving! | 19:26 |
| Zara | great. please let SotK know if you find any bugs in the implementation; he really loves that... 0:) | 19:26 |
| fungi | heh | 19:26 |
| SotK | thanks people :) | 19:26 |
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| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts | 19:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:26 | |
| fungi | any urgent updates on blockers for the priority efforts listed in our agenda? if no, we've got summit planning coming up and i want to make sure we leave time to discuss | 19:27 |
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| fungi | going once... twice... | 19:27 |
| fungi | #topic Summit planning | 19:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit planning (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:27 | |
| fungi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/infra-mitaka-summit-planning | 19:27 |
| fungi | i see some great ideas on the list so far | 19:28 |
| anteaya | remember to add your name ot the list on the etherpad, top right hand corner | 19:28 |
| fungi | it looks like so far there's a lot of fishbowl ideas but not many workroom ideas | 19:29 |
| anteaya | we like to talk? | 19:29 |
| anteaya | if you leave a question or comment on the etherpad please add your name or nick | 19:30 |
| Zara | I put mine down as a workroom but I thought it was better suited to a fishbowl, I just didn't want to compete with people for that space since I thought they had a better claim to it. | 19:30 |
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| fungi | the other thing worth considering is that our 4 workroom slots are in back-to-back pairs | 19:30 |
| anteaya | whoever just added the green question to yolanda's proposal | 19:30 |
| clarkb | greghaynes: getting noepool image works might be good fishbowl? | 19:30 |
| clarkb | greghaynes: and or writing nodepool tests | 19:30 |
| anteaya | Zara: looks like you made a good space choice | 19:30 |
| jeblair | i don't think zuulv3 is ready for a workroom yet -- however, we have some things i think need to get done before v3 -- greghaynes nodepool dib work and jhesketh's zuul connector work | 19:31 |
| jeblair | if those are outstanding, maybe we could attack them there | 19:31 |
| anteaya | jeblair: +1 | 19:31 |
| jeblair | clarkb: good idea! :) | 19:31 |
| fungi | so it's _possible_ we might do an extended workroom session if something benefits from 80 (well 90 if you ifnore the break) minutes instead of the usual 40 | 19:31 |
| yolanda | how is status of masterless puppet? shall we dedicated some time there? | 19:31 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: I will add them | 19:31 |
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| crinkle | yolanda: ++ nibalizer ^ | 19:31 |
| Zara | anteaya: thanks :) | 19:31 |
| greghaynes | Sure, I think the image builder stuff should be done before then but who knows what shows up on reviews | 19:32 |
| jeblair | yolanda: yeah, good idea | 19:32 |
| clarkb | greghaynes: well maybe we use that time to deploy it across the clouds | 19:32 |
| clarkb | greghaynes: and debug when it breaks :) | 19:32 |
| greghaynes | Yea, that actually sounds like a good plan A/B | 19:32 |
| greghaynes | depending on what state its in | 19:32 |
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| crinkle | I think infra cloud might be a good workroom session or it could wait till the sprint day | 19:33 |
| fungi | as usual, keep in mind that workroom sessions are ideal for mini-sprint type tasks where we identify something that a room full of people can potentially churn out (at least get a great start on if not complete) in 40 (or 90) minutes | 19:33 |
| jeblair | crinkle: yeah, depends on if there's something we can accomplish in 40-80 mins with infra cloud... i think of it as more of a half-day thing. | 19:34 |
| crinkle | jeblair: i think so too | 19:34 |
| anteaya | crinkle: you want to put it on the etherpad somewhere? | 19:34 |
| jeblair | crinkle: but if there's a mini-task or plan that needs to be sketched out... that'd work. | 19:34 |
| crinkle | anteaya: sure | 19:34 |
| fungi | for those who joined us on the irc meetings tracker session, that i think was a mostly perfect example of a good workroom idea | 19:34 |
| jeblair | fungi: yeah, we got that 90% done and finished it easily the next week. | 19:35 |
| anteaya | crinkle: then it isn't lost, thanks | 19:35 |
| fungi | i think it's good to view workroom sessions as "team building" exercises | 19:35 |
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| fungi | they might be things we could collaborate remotely on, but it's fun and helps with socialization to hack together on a common goal and share that sense of accomplishment in the same room | 19:36 |
| jeblair | fungi: and establishing a shared understanding | 19:36 |
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| fungi | for fishbowl sessions, these tend to be best used for topics which need discussion to arrive at a common consensus or level-set some understanding within the group or cross-project with other stakeholders outside infra, particularly where it might otherwise require a protracted many-weeks-long thread on the ml otherwise | 19:37 |
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| anteaya | zaro: do you want to keep Gerrit development/upgrade as fishbowl or move to workroom? | 19:38 |
| zaro | anteaya: IMO better as fishbowl. | 19:39 |
| anteaya | very good | 19:39 |
| fungi | we won't necessarily be making final decisions in a fishbowl, but we'll be exchanging positions and getting what we need to be able to have the final follow-up decision discussions on the ml (so that those who can't make it to the summit can still have some input) | 19:39 |
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| fungi | an important additional detail on the friday sprint time. before lunch we're co-sprinting with the ironic team | 19:42 |
| anteaya | and after lunch with qa and release management | 19:42 |
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| fungi | morning would be a great time for infra cloud since we can potentially collaborate on bifrost/bare metal automation needs | 19:43 |
| pleia2 | ++ | 19:43 |
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| clarkb | fungi: and possibly onmetal if that is still something magnum wants to try | 19:43 |
| clarkb | though never heard back from them so maybe not | 19:43 |
| fungi | and afternoon, yes our usual group therapy with qa and rm | 19:43 |
| anteaya | can't miss that | 19:43 |
| pleia2 | hehe | 19:43 |
| jeblair | i never thought about release management being acronymed 'rm'. that's fantastic. | 19:44 |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 19:44 |
| jeblair | er, initialed, i guess. | 19:44 |
| mordred | fungi: I think it would be useful to be explicit on intent with workrooms ... in Vancouver we had different people with mismatched thoughts, both valid things, but mostly incompatible | 19:44 |
| anteaya | that was me | 19:44 |
| anteaya | my fault | 19:44 |
| mordred | not fault. I just think clarity is good for all | 19:44 |
| anteaya | agree clarity is good | 19:44 |
| anteaya | but I recall that one and will own it | 19:45 |
| fungi | mordred: great point. yes workrooms are where we come prepared to collaborate on some predetermined task, not so much come to learn about something or get presented to | 19:45 |
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| fungi | so it helps to familiarize yourself with what we're going to work on in advance and be ready to volunteer for subtasks | 19:45 |
| pleia2 | I think we may also want to consider that we can also split out if we don't feel we need to be there, I kind of thought I *should* but made much better use of my time by splitting off into another smaller group to do other things | 19:45 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:46 |
| fungi | yep, don't just show up to a workroom session because "it's infra." there will be other places to have conversations or collaborate on unrelated work, and there will also be sessions for other teams going on so it can be a great excuse to cross-pollinate | 19:47 |
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| fungi | anyway, the goal with the planning topic for today's meeting was to prompt one another for additional ideas and get them onto the etherpad. we'll have one more meeting where we can settle on which topics from the list we're going to schedule into what slots | 19:48 |
| anteaya | I think the goal for today was successful | 19:48 |
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| fungi | so if you think of things between now and next tuesday please do add them to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/infra-mitaka-summit-planning | 19:49 |
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| zaro | anteaya: i've changed my mind on that 'Gerrit development/upgrade' would be better as workroom, 'scaling repo creation' better as fishbowl. | 19:49 |
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| anteaya | zaro: very good, would you like to make that change? | 19:49 |
| anteaya | and thanks for adding yourself to co-chair scaling, didn't want to speak for you | 19:49 |
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| fungi | zaro: ooh, like collaborate on gerrit/jgit hacking and testing during a work session? | 19:50 |
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| zaro | fungi: I was thinking get people started on gerrit/jgit hacking but if someone already knows gerrit then we can collaborate as well | 19:51 |
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| anteaya | zaro: you have a few respondants to your request for help | 19:51 |
| fungi | zaro: it might be a good idea to find out how many of the people who volunteered to help try to fix those will be summiting | 19:51 |
| anteaya | and at least 2 said they would be at summit | 19:51 |
| fungi | oh, excellent | 19:52 |
| anteaya | persia I remember | 19:52 |
| anteaya | and one other, I will check the logs post meeting | 19:52 |
| * fungi notes that it's hard to forget persia | 19:52 | |
| pleia2 | hehe | 19:52 |
| anteaya | so memorable | 19:52 |
| zaro | iirc, i think signed8bit is only one that is summiting | 19:52 |
| anteaya | and persia | 19:52 |
| nibalizer | yes masterless puppet should get some attention | 19:53 |
| anteaya | and thanks zaro, yes that is the other person | 19:53 |
| anteaya | pleia2: found signed8bit | 19:53 |
| pleia2 | oh yes, how could I forget | 19:53 |
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| zaro | anteaya: np. | 19:54 |
| anteaya | :) | 19:54 |
| fungi | okay, i'll transition this to open discussion for the last 5 minutes since mmmpork had some additional questions about next week's maintenance, but feel free to keep plugging summit session ideas too | 19:54 |
| zaro | anteaya: those sessions are already in the right spot. | 19:54 |
| anteaya | zaro: wonderful | 19:54 |
| fungi | #topic Open discussion | 19:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:54 | |
| mmmpork | we might want to have a meeting or discussion about the project rename process | 19:55 |
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| pleia2 | I'm speaking at Grace Hopper next week on our CI system, this is a pretty huge deal and I'm going to be very busy at the conference from Tuesday on http://schedule.gracehopper.org/session/open-source-presentations-3/ | 19:55 |
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| pleia2 | from there I'm off to Japan to do some traveling pre-summit, so see you there? :) | 19:55 |
| AJaeger | great, pleia2 ! | 19:55 |
| fungi | pleia2: thanks for the heads up, and good luck! (not that you need it) | 19:55 |
| SpamapS | speaking of infra-cloud | 19:56 |
| fungi | mmmpork: what about the project rename process should we discuss? | 19:56 |
| pleia2 | fungi: thanks | 19:56 |
| jeblair | pleia2: yay! | 19:56 |
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| SpamapS | just an update.. crinkle and greghaynes pushed a bit and got a mini-cloud up with some hand-massaging of network configs | 19:56 |
| mmmpork | 1) what are the pieces that need to be run? | 19:56 |
| mmmpork | 2) how will they be run | 19:56 |
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| mmmpork | 3) are we going to do a test run first? | 19:56 |
| SpamapS | the current challenge is to turn that into actual automation and deploy it into the working nodes in HP1 | 19:56 |
| mmmpork | 4) how will we verify the results before making actual changes to make sure we didn't miss anything? | 19:57 |
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| anteaya | pleia2: congratulations | 19:57 |
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| mmmpork | i'm ok with us having a document, an etherpad, or something as long as it's linked on the project wiki and we know who is doing what and when | 19:57 |
| anteaya | SpamapS: crinkle greghaynes congratulations | 19:57 |
| greghaynes | (it was mostly crinkle) | 19:58 |
| pleia2 | mmmpork: so project renames are something we do pretty often with the previous stackforge<>openstack churn we used to have | 19:58 |
| fungi | mmmpork: so when you say "project rename process" you mean the upcoming maintenance specifically, not just our general project rename process (which we have documented quite thoroughly already)? | 19:58 |
| mmmpork | yes | 19:58 |
| SpamapS | There should be some patches heading toward system-config with the automation bits. | 19:58 |
| mmmpork | since we're going to be doing a bunch of them all at once and having gerrit downtime to do so, correct? | 19:58 |
| pleia2 | mmmpork: this process will be much the same as the one we've done many times, which I think is why we're pretty casual about this and have our etherpad+docs process | 19:59 |
| pleia2 | mmmpork: it always requires gerrit downtime | 19:59 |
| mmmpork | alright, if you all are comfortable with that then i won't push for it | 19:59 |
| crinkle | SpamapS: yes, topic:infra-cloud has relevant patches | 19:59 |
| fungi | mmmpork: right, so the documented process is still going to be followed, but we have some additional scripts with this one to pregenerate what we're going to run/merge so that it can be reviewed more easily and further in advance | 19:59 |
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| fungi | anyway, we're at time | 19:59 |
| mmmpork | fungi: do we have that documented anywhere? what scripts are going to be run, where and by who? | 20:00 |
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| fungi | anyway, we're at time, don't want to hold up the tc | 20:00 |
| fungi | mmmpork: we can discuss further in #openstack-infra | 20:00 |
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| fungi | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 6 20:00:34 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-10-06-19.01.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-10-06-19.01.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-10-06-19.01.log.html | 20:00 |
| ttx | Alright... Anyone here for the TC meeting ? | 20:00 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:00 |
| jeblair | o/ | 20:00 |
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| annegentle | here | 20:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:01 |
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| ttx | russellb, jgriffith, lifeless, mordred, flaper87, dtroyer, jaypipes, sdague: around ? | 20:01 |
| * mestery lurks | 20:01 | |
| russellb | hi | 20:01 |
| adam_g | hiya | 20:01 |
| dtroyer | o/ | 20:01 |
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| * edleafe lurks in the back of the room | 20:01 | |
| jaypipes | o/ | 20:01 |
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| sdague | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 6 20:02:00 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:02 |
| * maishsk is lurking | 20:02 | |
| mordred | o/ | 20:02 |
| ttx | This is the last of the meetings for the liberty membership ! | 20:02 |
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| ttx | Next week we'll seat the newly-elected members. | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:02 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
| ttx | #topic Add Astara to OpenStack Projects List | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add Astara to OpenStack Projects List (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/194892 | 20:02 |
| ttx | This one seems to have triggered some opposition, not really on the "are you one of us" aspect, but more about being created as a separate project team from Neutron | 20:03 |
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| ttx | Maybe someone opposed could re-voice their concern here, so that we can take it under consideration ? | 20:03 |
| russellb | i don't have much to add here, i've commented heavily on the review | 20:03 |
| * ttx refreshes | 20:03 | |
| annegentle | even with coffee I was having trouble understanding why propose outside of neutron? | 20:04 |
| mordred | I'm not worried about it not being in neutron personally - since it's not aiming at user-facing api stuff | 20:04 |
| flaper87 | I've reviewed and I'd like russellb's concerns to be addressed. | 20:04 |
| mordred | to me, it's more like ovn | 20:04 |
| mordred | than like something that would exist in neutron | 20:04 |
| jeblair | flaper87: which ones? i think the only outstanding is "consensus with neutron ptl" | 20:04 |
| russellb | we did the more important point to me which was whether or not it intended to expose any of its own tenant facing APIs (it does not) | 20:04 |
| mestery | morgan: OVN exists in Neutron | 20:04 |
| mestery | mordred: ^^^^ | 20:04 |
| annegentle | mind, I do appreciate the further explanations people put in this afternoon | 20:04 |
| russellb | we did *clarify*, i mean | 20:04 |
| lifeless | o/ | 20:04 |
| russellb | mestery: i think he means OVN itself vs the driver | 20:04 |
| lifeless | sorry, reviewing :) | 20:05 |
| mordred | mestery: ovn _plugin_ exists in neutron | 20:05 |
| mestery | russellb: YEah, :) | 20:05 |
| mordred | mestery: ovn exists in ovs | 20:05 |
| mestery | mordred: Yuppers | 20:05 |
| * mestery is slow today | 20:05 | |
| mordred | I believe an astara plugin for neutron should be in neutron | 20:05 |
| * stevemar_ sneaks in late | 20:05 | |
| ttx | russellb: yes, I agree that clarifying that they would not do a competing API over the long run was important | 20:05 |
| jeblair | and this proposal has the astara plugin in the stadium | 20:05 |
| mordred | sweet | 20:05 |
| sdague | mordred: and I believe that was proposed | 20:05 |
| adam_g | it wasnt mentioned in review but worth noting that astara consumes and uses nova as much as neutron (to actually do the orchestrating) | 20:05 |
| russellb | ttx: that was my biggest concern for the previous -1 | 20:05 |
| mordred | sdague: ++ | 20:05 |
| dhellmann | russellb, mestery : was your main concern the idea that there might be a tenant-facing API? | 20:05 |
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| flaper87 | jeblair: I meant the one w.r.t the API and the agreement with neutron's PTL | 20:05 |
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| ttx | mestery: were your concerns addressed by the Astara team answers ? | 20:06 |
| russellb | i also feel that inclusion in Neutron should be considered, but i'm not interested in forcing it from the TC level. that's between the projects | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | at least, discussion. Probably agreement is not the right word | 20:06 |
| annegentle | autonomy? access to OpenStack-ish stuff? | 20:06 |
| mestery | ttx: Ack, refresh again please :) | 20:06 |
| ttx | (and armax's concerns) | 20:06 |
| russellb | i don't think 25 OpenStack projects implementing different pieces of Neutron is what we want, though | 20:06 |
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| russellb | and that's why most things are in Neutron today | 20:06 |
| jaypipes | adam_g: could the orchestration aspect of astara-rug be done with Heat? | 20:06 |
| adam_g | mordred, the current akanda-neutron plugin (soon to be astara-neutron) could/should be | 20:06 |
| mordred | adam_g: ++ | 20:06 |
| mestery | adam_g: ++, nice | 20:06 |
| sdague | annegentle: personally, I think there is a already *a lot* in neutron, and I don't think it's a success story for either neutron or astara to force fit them | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | ok, re-reviewed | 20:06 |
| adam_g | jaypipes, not to my knowledge | 20:06 |
| annegentle | sdague: yeah sdn could / would eat the world | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | jaypipes: no, IIRC, it requires using admin APIs in some cases to make connections to networks not owned by the tenant | 20:07 |
| mestery | I don't this is SDN folks | 20:07 |
| ttx | Alright. Any other concern, then ? | 20:07 |
| mestery | It's an ochestrator | 20:07 |
| russellb | i don't see it as a force fit when literally it's entire purpose in life is to be a neutron backend | 20:07 |
| * armax lurks | 20:07 | |
| jaypipes | adam_g, dhellmann: got it, thank you. | 20:07 |
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| annegentle | mestery: that's helpful thanks | 20:07 |
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| flaper87 | not from me | 20:08 |
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| mordred | russellb: I thnk for me keeping a separation between nova and neutron and the things that they drive is good - splitting ironic out into its own thing has been great for both nova and ironic, for instance | 20:08 |
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| mordred | russellb: but I understand the concern | 20:08 |
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| russellb | i'm not concered enough on that point to -1 over it | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | mordred: good analogy | 20:08 |
| russellb | they're also different projects | 20:08 |
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| russellb | in different industries, with different cultures | 20:09 |
| SpamapS | russellb: Ironic's sole purpose in life was to be a backend for Nova. | 20:09 |
| russellb | it's amazing how different they are, really | 20:09 |
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| russellb | but anyway, i don't want to take up an hour going off on the theory of why i think as much unification in neutron is beneficial | 20:09 |
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| russellb | i just hope everyone understands that there's been a ton of thought and good reasoning behind how the project is structured | 20:09 |
| ttx | OK, it's got 9 YES, without markmcclain's vote | 20:09 |
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| lifeless | I don't think rejecting them from the tent would make unification happen either | 20:10 |
| russellb | i'm not suggesting rejection | 20:10 |
| mestery | russellb: Obviously armax and I understand, thanks for bringing that up :) | 20:10 |
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| annegentle | armax: Armando, if you're good with the integration I think my questions are answered | 20:10 |
| russellb | but there was pushback to the suggestion that unification should be considered | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | russellb: are there other parts of neutron that implement similar amounts of backend pieces vs. just drivers? I'm honestly uninformed on that. | 20:10 |
| lifeless | russellb: sure, I get that | 20:10 |
| russellb | dhellmann: absolutely, several | 20:10 |
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| dtroyer | one suggestion was to put it under Neutron and move out later if that were determined to be the Right Thing. That works both ways… | 20:10 |
| russellb | i mentioned that multiple times in my review comments | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | russellb: ok, cool | 20:10 |
| ttx | russellb: I'm not against them going inside neutron if they prefer, I'm against rejecting their application because they prefer to be a separate team | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | russellb: well, it wasn't clear initially that folks understood what this actually was so I wasn't sure | 20:11 |
| russellb | the many pieces referred to as the "reference implementation" for L2 and L3, octavia, the default vpnaas backend, others i'm sure | 20:11 |
| armax | annegentle: I’ll will have to go through the comments/logs etc…but my initial position is | 20:11 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: russellb: right I'm definitely in that camp | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | ttx: ++ my thoughts exactly | 20:11 |
| russellb | dhellmann: right, it was also clear ot me that not everyone understood what this was, or what is in neutron. | 20:11 |
| * dhellmann nods | 20:11 | |
| ttx | I'm going to approve it now unless someone screams and has more questions | 20:11 |
| russellb | ttx: yep, fair | 20:11 |
| annegentle | ttx: give me a sec to click please | 20:11 |
| armax | so long as the TC is happy with the proposal, I am comfortable with their decision | 20:11 |
| armax | and won’t stand in the way | 20:12 |
| lifeless | armax: does Neutron have a strong opinion here? | 20:12 |
| lifeless | armax: e.g. 'this really should be part of Neutron' ? | 20:12 |
| armax | lifeless: does that count? | 20:12 |
| sdague | armax: it's data, all data counts | 20:12 |
| mestery | lifeless: Did you read the review? | 20:12 |
| lifeless | armax: its certainly a factor. I would hesitat before doing something that made an OpenStack project PTL unhappy | 20:12 |
| mestery | wow | 20:12 |
| armax | I expressed my opinion | 20:13 |
| annegentle | armax: well, I for one rely on the PTL to do the front-line comms | 20:13 |
| russellb | did you read the review? | 20:13 |
| mestery | I think armax russellb and I all commented there I thought? | 20:13 |
| lifeless | mestery: presumably not closely enough | 20:13 |
| mestery | lol | 20:13 |
| * lifeless re-reads | 20:13 | |
| flaper87 | armax: all input from the community is extremely important | 20:13 |
| russellb | right, current neutron PTL, previous neutron PTL, and myself all commented to that effect | 20:13 |
| ttx | Yes, Neutron leadership would have preferred that Astara was added within the Neutron team rather than as a separate team | 20:14 |
| * jaypipes personally liked the introduction of the very OpenStacky word "tenantive" | 20:14 | |
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| flaper87 | jaypipes: lol | 20:14 |
| annegentle | jaypipes: +1 | 20:14 |
| ttx | ok, approving now | 20:14 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: heh | 20:15 |
| armax | so long as someone is policing that the astara team stays true to their words | 20:15 |
| armax | then I am happy with what they are doing | 20:15 |
| armax | but I am not sure if anyone is | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | armax: policing how? what are you worried about them doing? | 20:15 |
| mestery | Who's gonna do that? | 20:15 |
| ttx | approved | 20:15 |
| russellb | in theory the TC has that authority | 20:15 |
| ttx | yes | 20:15 |
| russellb | if concerns are raised in the future | 20:15 |
| sdague | sure, but I guess what's the concern that should be looked for | 20:15 |
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| flaper87 | russellb: ++ | 20:15 |
| markmcclain | armax: the networking APIs are tough enough... last thing I'd want to do is write another | 20:15 |
| annegentle | armax: really the PTL has that day-to-day communication with teams. | 20:15 |
| lifeless | The big tent also explicitly allows for competition | 20:15 |
| russellb | new tenant facing APIs | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | I'm pretty disturbed at the implication of bad faith here. :-( | 20:16 |
| ttx | if the assumptions we are operating on for this decision are contracdicted by fact, we can undo what we've done | 20:16 |
| lifeless | *if* it goes that way | 20:16 |
| russellb | as discussed in several review comments ....... | 20:16 |
| armax | say that the API all of a sudden becomes tenant facing etc | 20:16 |
| armax | who is going to make sure that there’s no overlap... | 20:16 |
| armax | I am not saying there’s foul play or even intention for it | 20:16 |
| russellb | it would be nice if people read the review in advance of the meeting | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | lifeless: this project does not in any way compete with neutron | 20:16 |
| armax | but this does open a loophole | 20:16 |
| armax | or at least it feels like it does | 20:16 |
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| armax | but don’t mind me | 20:16 |
| armax | I am paranoid | 20:16 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: armax explicitly raised a concern about such things in the review | 20:16 |
| armax | I am not going to watch over their shoulders | 20:16 |
| armax | Astara or anyone else | 20:16 |
| lifeless | russellb: the meeting is literally the first thing my morning. I try but sometimes family things happen and its a rush | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | lifeless: ok, well, as I wrote a bunch of the original version of this project I'm going to claim more knowledge than armax | 20:17 |
| ttx | armax: and let us know if you see any issue. | 20:17 |
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| armax | I am only taking Astara as an example because they are the one applying for inclusion | 20:17 |
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| armax | dhellmann: I didn’t intend to claim otherwise | 20:17 |
| flaper87 | armax: your input and neutron's team input will be super valuable on these matters | 20:17 |
| adam_g | armax, dont worry, we're a small team of long time openstackers... and the last thing any of us want is another public facing API :) | 20:17 |
| armax | but things change | 20:17 |
| armax | over time | 20:17 |
| ttx | OK, we need to move on. | 20:17 |
| armax | I am only asking: who is going to monitor the change? | 20:17 |
| armax | if at all? | 20:17 |
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| armax | ok | 20:17 |
| lifeless | armax: I think the answer is noone | 20:18 |
| russellb | flaper87: i don't think they feel that way in this case | 20:18 |
| jaypipes | armax: ceilometer? | 20:18 |
| armax | lifeless: that’s the worst answer I could get | 20:18 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: boom tish | 20:18 |
| armax | but it’s an answer nonetheless | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | armax: we don't have rules like what you want enforced, though | 20:18 |
| armax | lifeless: I appreciate it | 20:18 |
| ttx | armax: "everyone" ? | 20:18 |
| armax | dhellmann: that’s fine, I get it | 20:18 |
| ttx | (it's the same answer) | 20:18 |
| flaper87 | russellb: yeah, I have that feeling and I'd like that to change :( | 20:19 |
| lifeless | armax: because as dhellmann says - http://governance.openstack.org/reference/new-projects-requirements.html - we don't (anymore) require that things be entirely distinct/non-overlap etc | 20:19 |
| lifeless | so monitoring to make sure they are would be counterproductive | 20:19 |
| armax | lifeless: I agree…so I feel there’s a double standard then | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | russellb, flaper87 : I listened, I just disagree. | 20:19 |
| ttx | If two project teams interests collide, they can escalate to the TC for conflict resolution | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | armax: how so? | 20:19 |
| ttx | I just fail to see a conflict right now | 20:20 |
| ttx | just presumption of potential conflict | 20:20 |
| armax | ttx: indeed, and that’s ok | 20:20 |
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| lifeless | armax: whats the double standard? | 20:20 |
| armax | lifeless: gbp was shot down | 20:20 |
| ttx | armax: so if the situation evolves, feel free to raise it | 20:20 |
| ttx | armax: no | 20:20 |
| armax | is it back? | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | armax: gpb *does* overlap quite a bit | 20:20 |
| ttx | armax: they retracted their proposal | 20:20 |
| armax | ok | 20:21 |
| mordred | armax: gbp wanted to replace neutron user-facing APIs | 20:21 |
| mestery | dhellmann: Quite a bit? It's another networking API with HW drivers | 20:21 |
| ttx | armax: current in WIP | 20:21 |
| mestery | It more than overlaps | 20:21 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: that's fine, I'm not saying that one has to agree | 20:21 |
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| armax | again, I am not picking up on astara…but who is going to stop that from happening now? | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | mestery: ok, well, degrees :-) -- in any case, that's not astara is | 20:21 |
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| mestery | dhellmann: Agreed | 20:21 |
| mestery | armax: The answer is no one | 20:21 |
| armax | or any other project that does the same? | 20:22 |
| armax | mestery: right | 20:22 |
| armax | that’s fine | 20:22 |
| mestery | Yip | 20:22 |
| mestery | It's documented now at least | 20:22 |
| ttx | ok, moving on, other topics to cover | 20:22 |
| ttx | #topic Cinder v1 drop postmortem | 20:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cinder v1 drop postmortem (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:22 | |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-September/075765.html | 20:22 |
| ttx | sdague: want to drive this one ? | 20:23 |
| sdague | yes | 20:23 |
| armax | let’s move on and cross that bridge should we ever get to it | 20:23 |
| armax | I only flagged the potential loophole | 20:23 |
| sdague | so, in the lead up to liberty release, the cinder team tried to disable by default v1 in devstack, which is their previously deprecated major API | 20:23 |
| annegentle | thanks armax and mestery | 20:23 |
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| sdague | lots of things broke | 20:23 |
| sdague | *lots* of things broke | 20:23 |
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| annegentle | so you're saying. lots of things broke. | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: I heard it was more than lots | 20:24 |
| lifeless | I hear lots of things broke | 20:24 |
| mordred | how man? | 20:24 |
| sdague | and in unpacking the situation after, it turns out that very few bits of code in the wild actually supported cinder v2 | 20:24 |
| mordred | many? | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | mordred: 42 | 20:24 |
| mordred | dhellmann: ++ | 20:24 |
| sdague | basically, only tempest | 20:24 |
| flaper87 | lol | 20:24 |
| sdague | and openstack client in the last 3 months | 20:24 |
| sdague | -ish | 20:25 |
| sdague | so, we reverted that | 20:25 |
| russellb | seems to be a trend in major API revs ... | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I think it wasn't complete support in osc, was it? | 20:25 |
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| dtroyer | dhellmann: no support until june/july-ish | 20:25 |
| sdague | however it does raise a question about how this can be done better | 20:25 |
| lifeless | sounds like a data problem | 20:25 |
| * dhellmann points to his cross-project summit session proposal on "themes", including "functional testing" http://odsreg.openstack.org/cfp/details/19 | 20:25 | |
| lifeless | like, we don't know enough about how we're deployed | 20:25 |
| sdague | and what additions to our deprecation tag we should have for due dilligence | 20:26 |
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| sdague | the link above suggested some from the operator community | 20:26 |
| SpamapS | Seems to me that developer queues need to be filled when deprecated API's are used in the gate. As in, "hey there's a bug over here please fix it" | 20:27 |
| sdague | I think rally / tempest / and openstack client support for at least 1 full cycle seems useful | 20:27 |
| mordred | I would think that at the very least we cannot _start_ deprecation of an old API until everyting in OpenStack supports the new one | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | I think the things from the email made sense, and I just assumed projects would actually be following through on that work before deprecating APIs. I mean, if the client didn't even properly support it deprecation was obviously premature | 20:27 |
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| mordred | like, you can't mark it deprecated if anything else in OpenStack (which we do have control over) is still using it | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | mordred: ++ | 20:27 |
| lifeless | ++mordred | 20:27 |
| jaypipes | sdague: so tempest supported v2 cinder API, but didn't test anything a deployment that *only* had v2 enabled and not v1? | 20:27 |
| mordred | becaue it's really not actually deprecated until then | 20:28 |
| ttx | sdague: the tag mandates making a survey of operators around usage of the feature to be removed | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | sdague: do you think we need a time frame? | 20:28 |
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| sdague | jaypipes: tempest worked | 20:28 |
| lifeless | mordred: using-by-default though IMO | 20:28 |
| jeblair | it's possible our thinking around 2 cycles was from when we had 3 projects and everyone in the same room. | 20:28 |
| mordred | lifeless: yes | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: mordred ++ | 20:28 |
| ttx | sdague: it's just that the procedure (which is new) wasn't followed | 20:28 |
| stevemar_ | jeblair: ++ | 20:28 |
| lifeless | mordred: like, we probably want clients to support old-and-new and be new-by-default before deprecating | 20:28 |
| sdague | ttx: sure, because deprecation of the v1 api predates that | 20:28 |
| jaypipes | sdague: sorry that should have said "but didn't test *against* a deployment that *only* had v2 enabled and not v1" | 20:28 |
| sdague | by at least a year | 20:28 |
| mordred | lifeless: using by default across all of openstack should be a barrier to being able to suggest deprecation of old | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | I guess a good first step is to have non-voting gates running with the deprecated API disabled | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: are you suggesting longer? | 20:28 |
| ttx | sdague: so I'm not sure the tag language is insufficient | 20:28 |
| lifeless | mordred: yes, that language should be in our tag | 20:28 |
| sdague | jaypipes: no, but that part actually worked | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | that should give an idea of what's would happen | 20:28 |
| SpamapS | There almost needs to be a different word than deprecated. | 20:28 |
| * flaper87 shrugs | 20:28 | |
| mordred | dhellmann: I'd personally suggest that we NEVER deprecate old APIs | 20:29 |
| lifeless | SpamapS: abandonded ? | 20:29 |
| mordred | but I know I'll get killed for that | 20:29 |
| sdague | rally didn't support v2 at all, and grenade blew up because of osc issues | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | mordred: let's take this one step at a time | 20:29 |
| mordred | so I'll stand for "not until it's default across all of openstack" | 20:29 |
| annegentle | mordred: I"m thinking that's reality and we should match it | 20:29 |
| mordred | for now | 20:29 |
| annegentle | for now | 20:29 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: more that the idea that a single fixed period is sufficient only if everyone is on top of things and pushing adoption aggressively, which wasn't the case here. | 20:29 |
| stevemar_ | sdague: same with barbican when we tried to switch keystone to v3 | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: ah, right, I agree with that assessment | 20:29 |
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| lifeless | jeblair: I think the period is fine, as long as the *starting point* is 'when all the work has been completed' | 20:29 |
| annegentle | jeblair: good point | 20:29 |
| jeblair | lifeless: yes, i think that's key. | 20:30 |
| mordred | lifeless, jeblair++ | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | mordred: on the other hand, that means all openstack projects have veto of any project they consume | 20:30 |
| mordred | dhellmann: they already do | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | well, your rule would make that more explicit | 20:30 |
| sdague | so, I think there is a deadlock issue with that approach. However, it does seem like a project should know which other parts of openstack do / don't work with it. | 20:30 |
| sdague | and be deliberate about that | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | mordred: I don't like cross-project veto powers | 20:30 |
| sdague | dhellmann: yeh, I agree, because you get lazy deadlock there | 20:31 |
| lifeless | sdague: tell me more about the deadlock concerns ? | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | mordred: it means deadlock | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | sdague: right | 20:31 |
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| mordred | dhellmann: well, if a project just decides to be a bonehead about it - I think we should look at that project and their esprit de corps | 20:31 |
| annegentle | sdague: yeah | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | lifeless: A won't adopt B's v2, so B can never drop V1 support | 20:31 |
| SpamapS | So there's really 4 phases in the life of an API in OpenStack. Right now. "New', "Usable", "Deprecated", and "Removed" | 20:31 |
| mordred | dhellmann: to me it means the ornery project gets themselves kicked out of the tent | 20:31 |
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| lifeless | dhellmann: that might mean that V2 has some real issues? | 20:31 |
| ttx | mordred: I'm not sure that will be that well-cut | 20:31 |
| mordred | of course not :) | 20:31 |
| jaypipes | mordred: not sure that is realistic. :) | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | lifeless: or that project A is not prioritizing collaboration | 20:32 |
| SpamapS | What seems to be missing is something between "Usable" and "Removed" which sets off alarm bells. | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | lifeless: both happen in practice | 20:32 |
| ttx | mordred: a lot of projects were pretty lazy (and still are) with keystone v3 | 20:32 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: so I don't like the thing there were a project can unilaterally force another project to do a bunch of work | 20:32 |
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| lifeless | dhellmann: it seems like there should be a middle ground | 20:32 |
| ttx | until it's down to one "bonehead" there is some road to travel | 20:32 |
| sdague | so, before we got down the fisty-cuffs route, how about having a standard for what we expect projects to know about their API usage | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | lifeless: agreed, we need projects to work together to support each other's evolutions | 20:32 |
| stevemar_ | SpamapS: maybe that's where "Abandoned" comes in | 20:32 |
| mordred | ttx: yes. exactly | 20:32 |
| flaper87 | I think one of the things that have caused delays on moving projects to new APIs is who's going to do that work | 20:32 |
| annegentle | mordred: it's not like that, it's more the "prioritizing collaboration" description | 20:33 |
| flaper87 | It's happened w/ keystone, Cinder and Glance | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | sdague: ++ | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | flaper87: ++ | 20:33 |
| russellb | flaper87: yep | 20:33 |
| sdague | because, I'll admit, when we make API changes in nova I go off and look at some of the 3rd party sdks like fog to see what people actually consume | 20:33 |
| russellb | generally always assume the "other team" should/will do it | 20:33 |
| ttx | mordred: so "until everyone supports it or you are tired to wait and ask the TC for a bonehead exemption ?" | 20:33 |
| SpamapS | Right, like "Deprecated" just means "Disapproved of". So the project is saying "we have something else now, we disapprove of using this one", but it still gets attention. | 20:33 |
| lifeless | brook's law is starting to hit us here :) | 20:33 |
| flaper87 | exactly, whereas I believe this is exactly what cross-project efforts are fore | 20:33 |
| flaper87 | As of Glance, we've now a small team between nova and glance working on this | 20:34 |
| * SpamapS steps down from box. | 20:34 | |
| flaper87 | Joint efforts like this are the ones that would help APIs moving forward | 20:34 |
| markmcclain | flaper87: ++ | 20:34 |
| ttx | SpamapS: the tag uses "deprecation" and "obsolesence" | 20:34 |
| flaper87 | Also, achieving everything in 1 cycle is just impossible unless there's just 1 project consuming your API | 20:34 |
| ttx | http://governance.openstack.org/reference/tags/assert_follows-standard-deprecation.html | 20:34 |
| flaper87 | And since project resources are not infinite, it must be scheduled carefully | 20:35 |
| david-lyle | from a horizontal project perspective, watching this realization of big tent difficulties with a distributed governance model is fun | 20:35 |
| annegentle | End-user docs have Current, Supported, Deprecated, Experimental. | 20:35 |
| sdague | ok, so moving this conversation towards actionable. I think I heard mixed things about do we need more language in the tag | 20:35 |
| annegentle | #link http://developer.openstack.org/api-ref.html | 20:35 |
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| sdague | annegentle: right, but experimental is pre current | 20:35 |
| lifeless | sdague: I think we need more guidance | 20:36 |
| ttx | sdague: we have to move on -- what do you suggest as a next step ? Dedicating one of the cross-project sessions to the question of deprecation ? | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | sdague, annegentle : it would be good to have those 2 docs use consistent language | 20:36 |
| sdague | ttx: we could do that | 20:36 |
| lifeless | sdague: I don't know that the *tag* should specify development process, but the user-visible impact and process for deprecation certainly makes sense to be in there to me | 20:36 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: sdague: yes, also my thinking, consistent terms are needed | 20:36 |
| ttx | sdague: or ML thread between now and then | 20:36 |
| flaper87 | ttx: if there's a free slot, yes | 20:36 |
| flaper87 | but I would put this in the box with all other proposals | 20:37 |
| sdague | well originally, I was going to suggestion we bring in the ideas in here - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-September/075765.html as a starting point | 20:37 |
| sdague | but we could do this as a cross project session given that it's fresh | 20:37 |
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| sdague | and get some write up after about additional guidelines on deprecation | 20:37 |
| ttx | that sounds like a good topic to me | 20:38 |
| sdague | ok, I'll propose | 20:38 |
| sdague | and run | 20:38 |
| david-lyle | terminology is not the issue; defining, scheduling and driving work is the issue. any project can choose to deprecate something, the problem is making other projects care | 20:38 |
| annegentle | david-lyle: good perspetive | 20:38 |
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| ttx | david-lyle: ties into defining "cycle goals", a session that dhellmann proposed | 20:39 |
| annegentle | david-lyle: and I think you're right fwiw | 20:39 |
| ttx | i.e. having common goals and driving them | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | david-lyle: yes, see my comments earlier about veto power | 20:39 |
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| flaper87 | it's not just about making other projects care, the project deprecating things should care enough as well | 20:39 |
| flaper87 | *cough* glance *cough* | 20:39 |
| flaper87 | It's literally a cross-project effort | 20:39 |
| ttx | ok, let's move on, we have a path forward and won't solve it in-meeting anyway | 20:40 |
| david-lyle | but in the big tent, how widely do they have to care? | 20:40 |
| flaper87 | one that must be taken 1 project at a time (depending on the resources available) | 20:40 |
| ttx | david-lyle: big tent doesn't mean no rule | 20:40 |
| flaper87 | ttx: ++ | 20:40 |
| ttx | just means easier entry | 20:40 |
| ttx | (which also means easier kicking out) | 20:40 |
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| sdague | and you should care about all your consumers, not just the ones in the openstack namespace | 20:40 |
| david-lyle | not arguing is does, but if you push deprecation work on one project to carry out across openstack | 20:40 |
| david-lyle | how wide is that | 20:41 |
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| mtaylor | depends on how widely you're used, honestly ... keystone might have more work ahread of them than other projects, for instance | 20:41 |
| ttx | david-lyle: totally agree that some coordination is required. Can't be all consumer or all originating project | 20:41 |
| sdague | there is actually a reason we rolled back 2 years of development on Nova API and went down a different path | 20:41 |
| mtaylor | and the cost of that is something that projects should think about when looking at new APIs | 20:41 |
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| flaper87 | which will require them more time to do it | 20:41 |
| edleafe | sdague: +1 | 20:41 |
| mtaylor | because if it's hard to get the new api rolled out across openstack | 20:42 |
| mtaylor | think about how hard it is on the users you do not know | 20:42 |
| david-lyle | sdague: my concern is we can't even seem to drive these changes in the namespace, outside is harder yet | 20:42 |
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| sdague | david-lyle: yep, for sure | 20:42 |
| sdague | ok, we'll take it to summit | 20:42 |
| ttx | ok, we really need to move on, but I'm looking forward to the discussion on this | 20:42 |
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| david-lyle | sdague: I think that was a more sane direction for sure | 20:42 |
| ttx | Not really a TC-specific thing anyway | 20:42 |
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| ttx | moving on | 20:42 |
| * david-lyle sits back down | 20:42 | |
| ttx | #topic stackforge retirement: make workflow reqs+cla clearer | 20:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "stackforge retirement: make workflow reqs+cla clearer (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:42 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/229176 | 20:42 |
| ttx | cool, plenty of votes | 20:43 |
| ttx | Questions, comments, objections ? | 20:43 |
| flaper87 | go go go go | 20:43 |
| ttx | gone | 20:43 |
| russellb | +1 | 20:43 |
| ttx | #topic Note that the TC expects some project history. | 20:43 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Note that the TC expects some project history. (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:43 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/229456 | 20:43 |
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| ttx | same | 20:43 |
| ttx | Questions, comments, objections ? | 20:44 |
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| dhellmann | did we lose anyone to the netsplit? | 20:44 |
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| * flaper87 crickets | 20:44 | |
| annegentle | here | 20:44 |
| russellb | dtroyer | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | I dtroyer gone | 20:44 |
| ttx | not that my smart filter could tell | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | *see | 20:44 |
| ttx | dtroyer approved it so I'll suppose he is fine with it | 20:45 |
| jeblair | i think dtroyer made a really good point on the review which i think perhaps many agree with but i'm afraid will be lost since it's just a comment. | 20:45 |
| flaper87 | ttx: mmh, I think our smart filters need refining | 20:45 |
| ttx | gone | 20:45 |
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| ttx | #topic Add team:non-diverse-affiliation tag | 20:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add team:non-diverse-affiliation tag (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:45 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/218725 | 20:45 |
| mordred | dhellmann: I got lost too and had to reconnect | 20:45 |
| ttx | Oh! Objections. | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: maybe a follow-up patch to add text | 20:45 |
| ttx | must be very recent | 20:45 |
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| ttx | go home barjavel you're drunk | 20:46 |
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| russellb | i mentioned my concern in a tc meeting once, was going to abstain | 20:46 |
| russellb | but decided to go ahead and -1 | 20:46 |
| ttx | lifeless, russellb: could you further elaborate why we are netter without it ? | 20:46 |
| ttx | better* | 20:46 |
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| lifeless | ttx: so we discussed it previously. I think that the social negatives of 'earnt a bad badge' are worse than the social negatives of 'failing to expose these risks to our users' | 20:47 |
| russellb | just concerned with "negative" tags in general, and whether they are overall good. my gut says it's not an overall win. | 20:47 |
| ttx | FWIW this has enough votes to pass now, just want to understand your concern to see if that makes me revert my vote | 20:47 |
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| lifeless | ttx: I'd be ok with 'failed to earn a specific good badge' | 20:47 |
| russellb | agree with lifeless summary | 20:47 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: I've removed my vote, for now | 20:48 |
| lifeless | ttx: negative feedback tends to really be felt brutally and viscerally by folk | 20:48 |
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| lifeless | ttx: you need to be super careful about how you do it, and an automated algorithm on our governance site is *not it* | 20:48 |
| edleafe | isn't it an objective evaluation? | 20:49 |
| lifeless | edleafe: it is both | 20:49 |
| edleafe | It's not like saying "we don't like you" | 20:49 |
| ttx | lifeless: I'm not sure I see it as a subjective thing, what edleafe said | 20:49 |
| sdague | lifeless: even if it's pretty clear to applying teams that it's a boundary | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | the numbers for diversity are visible through stackalytics without a lot of effort, I wonder if we'd do better to link to that in the regular diversity tag docs | 20:49 |
| lifeless | ttx: I didn't say subjective at any point :) | 20:49 |
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| ttx | it's like, don't force our consumers to go through stackallytics to get their opinion on how diverse a team is | 20:49 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: I'd be comfortable with that | 20:49 |
| russellb | dhellmann: sure, "if you want to understand more, regardless of whether a project has met this defined threshold, see stackalytics" +1 | 20:50 |
| ttx | it's not as if the facts weren't there | 20:50 |
| sdague | I guess I feel like in the past projects in this bucket would have been shown the door completely | 20:50 |
| flaper87 | To me, the tag is stating something that can is evident by looking at the project's activity. | 20:50 |
| ttx | sdague: they would not have been accepted in the first place | 20:50 |
| sdague | ttx: right, that's what I mean | 20:50 |
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| ttx | basically, it's something we used to judge as part of the integrated-release concept | 20:50 |
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| ttx | and we erased that bit of information | 20:51 |
| ttx | this is just proposing to expose it again | 20:51 |
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| flaper87 | I think the concern here is not about the information but about how it's exposed | 20:51 |
| ttx | if it is seen as a bad thing and teams work on diversity as a result, all the better ? | 20:51 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I see lifeless and russellb's point that this feels more like stick than carrot | 20:51 |
| jeblair | ttx: we do still have the diverse-affiliation tag for exposing that information. | 20:51 |
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| lifeless | ttx: hang on, we have a diversity carrot tag | 20:51 |
| maishsk | flaper87: +1 | 20:52 |
| devananda | ttx: is exposing that in a negative way (project X does not Y) valuable to the community, or in shaping the community, in a big-tent world? | 20:52 |
| flaper87 | I don't want to just tell people that they should look into stackalytics before deploying things because I kinda thing we should also be a bit more informative | 20:52 |
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| ttx | I'm fine deferring the decision on this one. That means deferring to the next TC membership though | 20:52 |
| lifeless | we can create a curated list of projects that have earnt all the previously-this-was-integrated badges | 20:52 |
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| dhellmann | lifeless: that's the tc-approved-release | 20:53 |
| devananda | lifeless: we started from that list. it's inthe history | 20:53 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: no | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | at least as it stands today | 20:53 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: thats the interface with the board and defcore AIUI | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | oh, you mean as individual things | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | well, I mean we have the list of those projects already | 20:53 |
| flaper87 | What if we tag diverse projects and leave non-diverse projects tagless ? | 20:53 |
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| lifeless | dhellmann: I just mean gather up the various carrt tags | 20:53 |
| russellb | dhellmann: yes, and i want to trend toward being a community with a culture of more carrots and less sticks | 20:53 |
| flaper87 | that's pretty much the same but the other way around | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | flaper87: that's what we're doing now | 20:53 |
| ttx | OK, let's continue the discussion on the review, it doesn't have majority yet. | 20:53 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: and provide a list of 'super good healthy happy projects' | 20:53 |
| flaper87 | however, the tag would be positive | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | russellb: ++ | 20:53 |
| ttx | if still blocked at next meeting we'll call for direct vote | 20:53 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: and say 'this is the safe space. Beyond that you'll need to learn aboutthe project to assess' | 20:54 |
| ttx | we need to move on to cover the rest of the agenda | 20:54 |
| lifeless | russellb: ++ that trend. Me too. | 20:54 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: ? don't think so or I didn't express myself correctly | 20:54 |
| edleafe | is the purpose of the tag to reward/punish the team, or to enlighten potential outside users about the project's state? | 20:54 |
| lifeless | flaper87: I think dhellmann means the status quo | 20:54 |
| markmcclain | my main concern is the education side of it.. ie how do folks know which carrots a project should have | 20:54 |
| ttx | edleafe: the latter | 20:54 |
| flaper87 | lifeless: ah, that makes more sense | 20:54 |
| lifeless | flaper87: is that we have no negative tag and only the positive tag. | 20:54 |
| flaper87 | lifeless: thanks | 20:55 |
| annegentle | edleafe: all about giving others info | 20:55 |
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| dhellmann | markmcclain: get all the carrots! | 20:55 |
| edleafe | ttx: that's what I thought. Seems childish to insist on only positive tags to spare hurt feelings | 20:55 |
| ttx | ok, continue discussion on the review | 20:55 |
| ttx | #topic Cross-project track at Mitaka design summit | 20:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cross-project track at Mitaka design summit (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:55 | |
| ttx | http://odsreg.openstack.org/ | 20:55 |
| ttx | I submitted a bunch there, you should too | 20:55 |
| ttx | content will be decided next week | 20:55 |
| russellb | edleafe: feelings matter to me. openstack is people and i care about them. | 20:56 |
| dhellmann | ttx: does that system email the proposer when comments are added? | 20:56 |
| ttx | we need to set up a meeting on Monday to hash the results | 20:56 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: if not, we should make sure folks know to go look at the questions that have been left | 20:56 |
| ttx | dhellmann: not really | 20:56 |
| russellb | edleafe: feel free to go work on the linux kernel if you'd like to be in a place where feelings don't matter | 20:56 |
| flaper87 | russellb: ++ on feelings matters | 20:56 |
| edleafe | russellb: so do I, but this isn't a judgment on the people; it's an objective assessment | 20:56 |
| russellb | that's quite an over simplification | 20:56 |
| russellb | anyway we have moved on | 20:56 |
| edleafe | yep | 20:56 |
| ttx | russellb: agreed, that's why I don't want to rush a decision on this | 20:57 |
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| flaper87 | ttx: meeting on monday sounds good | 20:57 |
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| ttx | Who is up for a meeting on Monday to prepare the results ? | 20:57 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:57 |
| ttx | 1500 UTC ? | 20:57 |
| sdague | 1500 utc seems fine | 20:57 |
| flaper87 | ttx: 14 would be better | 20:57 |
| ttx | that's usually the magic time | 20:57 |
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| dhellmann | o/ | 20:57 |
| ttx | I'm fine with 1400, but PT people might not | 20:57 |
| flaper87 | but if it doesn't work for others, I'll adapt | 20:57 |
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| ttx | ok, sync with flaper on your availability, he will setup the meeting | 20:58 |
| ttx | #topic Communications workgroup report | 20:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Communications workgroup report (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:58 | |
| ttx | annegentle, flaper87: o/ | 20:58 |
| annegentle | boy. um.... | 20:58 |
| * annegentle shuffles feet and looks down | 20:58 | |
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| ttx | do we have enough for a "end of liberty" blogpost ? | 20:58 |
| annegentle | I meant to have one ready by tomorrow but haven't given much thought to it | 20:59 |
| annegentle | I think we do ttx | 20:59 |
| flaper87 | I think we could do that and we had some other good content from today's meeting too | 20:59 |
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| annegentle | flaper87: up for drafting with me? | 20:59 |
| annegentle | flaper87: yep | 20:59 |
| ttx | #action flaper87 to set up a meeting on Monday to prepare the cross-project track agenda ahead of the TC meeting | 20:59 |
| flaper87 | annegentle: yes, lets etherpad together | 20:59 |
| annegentle | flaper87: cool thanks | 20:59 |
| stevemar_ | annegentle: i thought this was nice: http://www.slideshare.net/openstack/liberty-release-preliminary-marketing-materials-messages no idea who did it though | 20:59 |
| ttx | annegentle: can be a bit of a retrospective | 21:00 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 21:00 | |
| ttx | Remember we'll have a joint Board of Directors / TC meeting on Monday Oct 26 afternoon starting at 2:30pm | 21:00 |
| ttx | mordred: any progress on the TC dinner plans ? | 21:00 |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 21:00 |
| annegentle | stevemar_: nice find, thanks! | 21:00 |
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| russellb | a DCO non-update posted to the foundation ML: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/foundation/2015-October/002201.html | 21:00 |
| lifeless | flaper87: 1400 UTC - uhm, 2am, nope | 21:00 |
| sdague | russellb: thanks for that | 21:00 |
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| flaper87 | lifeless: 15 is not any better | 21:00 |
| russellb | sdague: hopefully it's an oversight | 21:00 |
| flaper87 | :P | 21:00 |
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| ttx | mordred: note: no dinner planned on Monday evening, only the snacks at the WOO event until 7:30pm | 21:01 |
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| dhellmann | lifeless: leave comments on the proposals | 21:01 |
| ttx | so that's an option | 21:01 |
| flaper87 | lifeless: 15 UTC is midnight here | 21:01 |
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| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 6 21:01:31 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-10-06-20.02.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-10-06-20.02.txt | 21:01 |
| ttx | and we are over time | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-10-06-20.02.log.html | 21:01 |
| markmcclain | courtesy ping Mitaka PTLs: armax boris-42 bswartz cp16net david-lyle devkulkarni dhellmann dims dirk dprince dtroyer emilienm | 21:01 |
| ttx | markmcclain: channel is yours | 21:01 |
| markmcclain | courtesy ping Mitaka PTLs: flaper87 flwang gordc hyakuhei isviridov jklare johnthetubaguy jroll loquacities odyssey4me | 21:01 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: -> #openstack-dev to get out of channel | 21:01 |
| markmcclain | courtesy ping Mitaka PTLs: redrobot SergeyLukjanov skraynev slagle SlickNik smcginnis smelikyan stevemar thinrichs TravT ttx | 21:01 |
| markmcclain | courtesy ping Liberty PTLs: j^2 thingee kiall nikhil_k stevebaker jeblair devananda morganfainberg mestery | 21:02 |
| david-lyle | o/ | 21:02 |
| gordc | o/ | 21:02 |
| thingee | o/ | 21:02 |
| redrobot | o/ | 21:02 |
| markmcclain | courtesy ping Liberty PTLs: cloudnull ttx number80 adrian_otto slagle SlickNik | 21:02 |
| docaedo | o/ | 21:02 |
| smcginnis | o/ | 21:02 |
| jroll | \o | 21:02 |
| markmcclain | per last week's request ... discourteous ping: fungi | 21:02 |
| jokke_ | o/ | 21:02 |
| devananda | o/ | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:02 |
| docaedo | (even though I don't get a courtesy ping ;) ) | 21:02 |
| markmcclain | #startmeeting crossproject | 21:02 |
| lifeless | no ping this week | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 6 21:02:31 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is markmcclain. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| skraynev_ | o/ | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
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| nikhil | o/ | 21:02 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:02 | |
| fungi | thanks markmcclain! | 21:02 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'crossproject' | 21:02 |
| lifeless | its a very odd ping list | 21:02 |
| lifeless | o/ | 21:02 |
| edleafe | o/ | 21:02 |
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| stevebaker | \o | 21:02 |
| markmcclain | lifeless: should be the superset of ptls until I've got list errors | 21:03 |
| markmcclain | s/until/unless | 21:03 |
| stevemar_ | o\ | 21:03 |
| markmcclain | fungi: here to please | 21:03 |
| lifeless | markmcclain: + tc :) | 21:03 |
| markmcclain | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting | 21:03 |
| markmcclain | lifeless: I'll correct it for next time | 21:03 |
| lifeless | markmcclain: unless the TC isn't relevant to the meeting... :) | 21:03 |
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| nikhil | can we add a section to the wiki for all those who want to be notified/pinged? | 21:04 |
| stevemar_ | lifeless: ohhh burn | 21:04 |
| * Rockyg lurks | 21:04 | |
| markmcclain | nikhil: sure | 21:04 |
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| lifeless | markmcclain: sorry, enough kibbitzing from me, on ward and upward :) | 21:04 |
| markmcclain | no action items from last time | 21:04 |
| markmcclain | #topic Horizontal Team Announcements | 21:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Horizontal Team Announcements (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:04 | |
| markmcclain | Any horizontal announcements? | 21:05 |
| ttx | On the Design Summit front, the per-track schedule is now officialized at mitakadesignsummit.sched.org | 21:05 |
| ttx | The scheduling system is also available for the PTLs scheduling pleasure | 21:05 |
| ttx | Details at: | 21:05 |
| * armax here if you need me | 21:05 | |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-October/076172.html | 21:05 |
| ttx | It's the same system as last summit. Let me (or thingee) know if you have any questions. | 21:06 |
| ttx | On the release management front, we are about 9 days before the end of the liberty dev cycle | 21:06 |
| ttx | We have release candidates for everything, and are actively respinning RCs to include latest translations | 21:06 |
| ttx | You should all start working on the release notes at: | 21:06 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Liberty | 21:06 |
| ttx | On the governance front, we have a TC membership election going on, please vote! | 21:06 |
| ttx | That is all from me | 21:07 |
| markmcclain | ttx: thanks for the update | 21:07 |
| annegentle | thanks for the release notes reminder! | 21:07 |
| stevemar_ | general note saying the tool for updating the design sessions is awesome | 21:07 |
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| annegentle | #info Work on those release notes for liberty | 21:07 |
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| markmcclain | annegentle: yes.. good release notes are critical part of the release | 21:08 |
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| markmcclain | Any other horizontal team announcements? | 21:08 |
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| ttx | stevemar_: I should put it under Gerrit | 21:08 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: ++ | 21:09 |
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| stevemar_ | ++ | 21:09 |
| ttx | stevemar_: there is a bug when adding "another track" to a session, but that's actually sched API acting up | 21:09 |
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| ttx | stevemar_, dhellmann: we are supposed to drop Sched and work on our own system | 21:09 |
| ttx | so I always thought it would not be necessary to go beyond github. | 21:10 |
| ttx | https://github.com/ttx/summitsched for reference | 21:10 |
| dhellmann | ttx: orly? | 21:10 |
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| ttx | anyway, moving on ;) | 21:11 |
| lifeless | ttx: where do we get the resources to do that? | 21:11 |
| ttx | lifeless: foundation | 21:11 |
| markmcclain | #topic Service Catalog Standardization | 21:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Service Catalog Standardization (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:11 | |
| ttx | lifeless: (not done yet) | 21:11 |
| markmcclain | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/181393/ | 21:12 |
| * annegentle waves | 21:12 | |
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| annegentle | where's that etherpad from last week? | 21:12 |
| stevemar_ | sdague: ^ | 21:12 |
| markmcclain | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-service-catalog | 21:12 |
| annegentle | thanks | 21:12 |
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| annegentle | much overlap, there is. But I think that the spec covers everything in the etherpad, am I missing anything? | 21:13 |
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| annegentle | We'd love an unauthed service catalog but documenting how to filter it might work too | 21:14 |
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| * stevemar_ is still concerned that removing project IDs is gonna be hard for swift | 21:14 | |
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| stevemar_ | i've love an unauthenticated catalog | 21:14 |
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| annegentle | stevemar_: yeah looking at that, hm | 21:14 |
| bknudson | if swift isn't willing to sign up to remove project IDs from their catalog then this is a non-starter. | 21:14 |
| stevemar_ | bknudson: yep | 21:14 |
| annegentle | bknudson: the whole spec? | 21:14 |
| annegentle | do we have swift ptl notmyname's input? | 21:15 |
| notmyname | ah, sorry, I didn't get a ping. looking | 21:15 |
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| annegentle | where {account} is equal to project, right bknudson? | 21:15 |
| bknudson | not the whole spec. | 21:16 |
| markmcclain | notmyname: my apologies... error in my list | 21:16 |
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| bknudson | $SWIFT_SERVICE_PROTOCOL://$SERVICE_HOST:8080/v1/AUTH_\$(tenant_id)s | 21:17 |
| annegentle | This etherpad is a great continuation of the etherpad that got... lost... in Vancouver | 21:17 |
| notmyname | no worries. typing to catch up :-) | 21:17 |
| bknudson | that's what devstack is setting for the endpoitn now | 21:17 |
| bknudson | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-dev/devstack/tree/lib/swift#n619 | 21:17 |
| stevemar_ | bknudson: but could it work without that? | 21:17 |
| stevemar_ | just cause devstack sets it up like that | 21:17 |
| stevemar_ | doesn't mean we want it that way | 21:18 |
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| bknudson | stevemar_: I don't get to decide that. | 21:18 |
| stevemar_ | bknudson: that's where notmyname comes in :) | 21:18 |
| annegentle | devstack becomes docs for many people for "how do I configure this" including the docs team, so understanding if devstack _has_ to do it that way is pretty crucial | 21:19 |
| notmyname | AIUI, looking to remove the "tenant_id" part? completely or to replace with something else? | 21:19 |
| dtroyer | IIRC the inital reason DevStack does that is due to client requirements. If the client can work with a SC endpoint without the account it should be OK | 21:19 |
| dtroyer | a lot has changed since that was done... | 21:19 |
| bknudson | notmyname: for nova the plan is to make the tenant_id optional. If it's not present then it'll get the project from the token. | 21:20 |
| annegentle | dtroyer: yeah | 21:20 |
| notmyname | bknudson: what if it's some other string besides the project id? | 21:20 |
| bknudson | keystone only supports replacing tenant_id and user_id in the service catalog | 21:20 |
| stevemar_ | notmyname: ideally we want it to just be an unversioned URL | 21:20 |
| notmyname | or is the choice project/tenant id or nothing? | 21:20 |
| notmyname | stevemar_: "Versioned" is confusing here. a tenant id isn't a version | 21:21 |
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| stevemar_ | notmyname: sorry, you guys only have v1 | 21:21 |
| stevemar_ | notmyname: ideally we want it to be: http://hostname:8080 | 21:21 |
| notmyname | /v1/{account} | 21:21 |
| stevemar_ | that's it | 21:21 |
| notmyname | hmm | 21:21 |
| stevemar_ | nope | 21:21 |
| stevemar_ | let the clients handle /v1/account | 21:21 |
| notmyname | sorry, that was a reply to your earlier one | 21:21 |
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| notmyname | so there would need to be some sort of catalog so clients can look up what their account string is, right? | 21:22 |
| stevemar_ | keystone tokens already have project ids in there, so we can determine the URL | 21:22 |
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| annegentle | notmyname: right, a lookup | 21:22 |
| stevemar_ | well when you authenticate with keystone you project a project name/id, so we would just re-use that one | 21:23 |
| notmyname | annegentle: if only we had an openstack project that could server some sort of catalog about services available ;-) | 21:23 |
| stevemar_ | notmyname: hehe | 21:23 |
| notmyname | stevemar_: is that in the identity response from the auth_token middleware or encoded int he token itself? | 21:23 |
| bknudson | in the case of nova devstack sets "$nova_api_url/v2/\$(tenant_id)s" -- so the idea is to change to "$nova_api_url/v2" | 21:23 |
| annegentle | notmyname: :) | 21:24 |
| bknudson | and nova will work with either tenanted URLS or non-tenanted URLs for a while. | 21:24 |
| stevemar_ | notmyname: it's definitely in the token itself, and the middleware has an option for setting the project too | 21:24 |
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| notmyname | stevemar_: ah ok. so eg "the first 15 bytes" or something | 21:24 |
| bknudson | auth_token middleware sets the project ID in the environment | 21:25 |
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| stevemar_ | bknudson: yep in X-Project-Id | 21:25 |
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| redrobot | bknudson I think you mean jus $nova_api_url ... version should be added by the client. | 21:26 |
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| bknudson | redrobot: yes, I was splitting out the versioning conversation from replacing tenant_id conversation | 21:27 |
| bknudson | strangely, devstack also sets "$nova_api_url/v2.1/\$(tenant_id)s" | 21:27 |
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| annegentle | bknudson: that can be changed as long as we know things will work after the change | 21:28 |
| annegentle | bknudson: right? | 21:28 |
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| notmyname | I'll have to look at this in more detail. at minimum, this will take a lot of dev work and testing in swift, if it's even possible. I know most people in here hate to hear this, but it also will be tricky to make sure all the non-keystone auth integrations still work | 21:29 |
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| bknudson | annegentle: right, we can change the contents of the catalog... the server and clients need to support it. | 21:29 |
| annegentle | notmyname: that's a fair assessment and then risk analysis | 21:29 |
| annegentle | bknudson: ok right | 21:29 |
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| stevemar_ | notmyname: cool, might be worth bugging the nova folks to see how they are transitioning from project IDs in the url to not have them | 21:30 |
| bknudson | if they don't have keystone then they don't have to worry about a service catalog | 21:30 |
| notmyname | stevemar_: yeah, but I doubt that nova uses that string for actual data placement | 21:30 |
| notmyname | in swift, that string is used as one of the inputs to the hash function for data placement and retrieval | 21:30 |
| bknudson | so clients must already be adding account id on their own. | 21:31 |
| stevemar_ | notmyname: so in swift you actually use the service catalog entries? | 21:31 |
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| bknudson | ... this might be why you were asking about {account_id} | 21:31 |
| notmyname | bknudson: no, the auth system, whatever it is, returns a storage url that includes the account part | 21:31 |
| notmyname | stevemar_: ^ answers your question too :-) | 21:32 |
| markmcclain | #action notmyname to investigate how proposed service catalog change impacts swift further | 21:32 |
| mordred | oh | 21:32 |
| bknudson | I think the point of the spec is to have a static service catalog (no replacements) | 21:32 |
| mordred | is the TC proposed catalog changes? | 21:32 |
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| mordred | (or cross-project or whatever that spec was) | 21:32 |
| stevemar_ | bknudson: yes, that's hopefully the outcome :) | 21:33 |
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| annegentle | mordred: it's the cross-project spec | 21:33 |
| mordred | cool | 21:33 |
| * mordred loves that spec - just making sure he hadn't missed other catalog change proposals | 21:34 | |
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| markmcclain | Any last thoughts on this topic? | 21:35 |
| annegentle | on Q | 21:35 |
| annegentle | er, one Q, do I need to update the spec with a link to the etherpad above? | 21:35 |
| annegentle | or can I add on later? | 21:36 |
| markmcclain | I think it can be added later | 21:36 |
| notmyname | annegentle: at least in a comment for now would be nice | 21:36 |
| notmyname | IMO | 21:36 |
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| markmcclain | notmyname: good idea | 21:36 |
| markmcclain | ok moving on | 21:37 |
| markmcclain | #topic Vertical Team Announcements | 21:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Vertical Team Announcements (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:37 | |
| annegentle | notmyname: check | 21:37 |
| markmcclain | Seeing no announcements moving on | 21:38 |
| markmcclain | #topic Open Discussion | 21:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:38 | |
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| fungi | reminder: the gerrit maintenance for the stackforge namespace retirement starts at 18:00 utc october 17 (a week from saturday) | 21:39 |
| markmcclain | fungi: thanks | 21:40 |
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| markmcclain | Last call... | 21:40 |
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| markmcclain | Thanks to everyone for joining this week. EmilienM will be chairing next week. | 21:42 |
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| markmcclain | Have a great week. | 21:42 |
| annegentle | good call fungi | 21:42 |
| markmcclain | #endmeeting | 21:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:42 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 6 21:42:17 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:42 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-10-06-21.02.html | 21:42 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-10-06-21.02.txt | 21:42 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-10-06-21.02.log.html | 21:42 |
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