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| alex_xu | #startmeeting nova api | 12:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Jun 19 12:00:20 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is alex_xu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 12:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 12:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_api' | 12:00 |
| alex_xu | Hello, who is here today? | 12:00 |
| claudiub | o/ | 12:00 |
| bauwser | \o | 12:00 |
| alex_xu | hello! | 12:01 |
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| alex_xu | only me is api team... | 12:01 |
| * bauwser will be basically lurking :-) | 12:01 | |
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| claudiub | we trust your judgement. :) | 12:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | o/ | 12:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy | well I am just lurking really | 12:02 |
| bauwser | alex_xu: ready for a monologue ? | 12:02 |
| alex_xu | bauwser: ....do you want to listen? | 12:03 |
| alex_xu | or cancel this week? | 12:03 |
| bauwser | alex_xu: I do, I could even voice, but don't bet on it :) | 12:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | so quick thing | 12:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/173243/17/specs/liberty/approved/api-relax-validation.rst,cm | 12:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | seems like there is agreement on that now, which is great | 12:03 |
| alex_xu | +1 quick talk something | 12:03 |
| alex_xu | yea, I already +1, I think it pretty close | 12:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | I am curious how many other specs are pedning | 12:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | pending^ | 12:04 |
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| sdague | o/ | 12:04 |
| alex_xu | I will happy to help on the implementation | 12:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | pending for priority stuff I mean, rather than just APIImpact stuff | 12:04 |
| sdague | alex_xu: can you take the lead on that implementation? | 12:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: awesome thank you, not sure how much code typing time will get left for me | 12:04 |
| alex_xu | sdague: sure | 12:04 |
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| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: yea, I see :) | 12:04 |
| sdague | alex_xu: great, thank you | 12:04 |
| alex_xu | sdague: np | 12:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: alex_xu: +1 don't let my name being on there block you doing all the work, if thats the best way forward! | 12:05 |
| bauwser | some details have been removed from the spec, which I'm fine - but I'd love to review that | 12:05 |
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| sdague | alex_xu: I'll actively review those patches, please ping me as soon as you have anything up | 12:05 |
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| sdague | I'd like to get that in sooner rather than later | 12:05 |
| alex_xu | sdague: got it | 12:05 |
| bauwser | sdague: the spec deserves a +2 :) | 12:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 in terms of reviewing that spec | 12:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | (and trying to get it deployed...!) | 12:05 |
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| sdague | bauwser: I don't have +2 on specs :) | 12:06 |
| bauwser | oh my bad then, was thinking you were nova-drivers | 12:06 |
| sdague | as soon as I get done writing up some new devstack plugin docs, I'll be reviewing specs this morning | 12:06 |
| alex_xu | so api team member can +1 for it, then put it on https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-nova-priorities-tracking | 12:07 |
| bauwser | alex_xu: well, I think it's reasonable to put it already | 12:07 |
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| alex_xu | bauwser: sounds good for me | 12:08 |
| bauwser | gilliard and you already +1'd it | 12:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | (so I regret not pushing on the nova-core all get +2 thing, its been too slow without it, will probably change that soon-ish after the freeze for the backlog stuff, but lets not get distracted by that...) | 12:08 |
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| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: so we can put it on that list before too | 12:08 |
| bauwser | oomichi as well, btw. | 12:08 |
| bauwser | johnthetubaguy: did that | 12:08 |
| bauwser | just now | 12:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: yeah, lets get a list of all the specs this teams would like to be merged, regardless of their current state | 12:09 |
| alex_xu | bauwser: yea, oomichi give -1 for previous version, better to have him +1 | 12:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | that was I can get them some higher priority | 12:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | that way^ | 12:09 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: ok | 12:09 |
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| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/188410 | 12:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | oomichi spotted a big omision, around omitting headers for v2 rather than v2.1 so I was really glad of that -1 | 12:10 |
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| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: yea | 12:10 |
| alex_xu | more question for relax validation? then we move on | 12:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I am good for relax stuff | 12:10 |
| sdague | I think we can move on | 12:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | thanks for all the great feedback on that | 12:11 |
| bauwser | +1 | 12:11 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/188410 | 12:11 |
| alex_xu | the microversion client spec | 12:11 |
| alex_xu | I have no more words...except review, thanks to sdague already give a lot feedback | 12:11 |
| alex_xu | oops, one question from me | 12:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | I need to give this some quality time, I like how its based on the ironic spec | 12:12 |
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| sdague | well, honestly, I find the ironic spec boiler plate mostly distracting | 12:13 |
| alex_xu | whether we need depend api-guidelien https://review.openstack.org/187112 it add something like return max/min when request invalid version? | 12:13 |
| sdague | because we mostly have all that | 12:13 |
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| alex_xu | sdague: our spec is a little different with ironic one, I compare few use-case, some words are changed....so we need notice that | 12:14 |
| sdague | but I think my major issues were all addressed with L266 - L276 | 12:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: true, its got too big right now, the problem description could be trimmed, for example | 12:14 |
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| bauwser | +1 was about to mention that | 12:14 |
| sdague | alex_xu: so, the problem is, no one is ever going to really notice that. I feel like that should be done as an appendix section, that also describes what the differences from ironic are at this point | 12:15 |
| bauwser | does it need to be reviewed now, that said ? | 12:15 |
| sdague | because building a mental diff here is weird | 12:15 |
| bauwser | I mean, during the meeting ? | 12:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: +1 | 12:15 |
| sdague | and it wasn't the major concern of the spec | 12:15 |
| alex_xu | sdague: yea, it hard diff by my eye | 12:15 |
| sdague | bauwser: well, now is a time for questions | 12:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | I am torn, I like it being stand alone in nova, but the differences are important, I think the later is probably more important | 12:16 |
| bauwser | sdague: fair, was an open question, sorry if you sounded it harsh | 12:16 |
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| sdague | ok, honestly, now that we sorted out the cli default behavior, I think this is in fine shape to move forward. Details can be tweaked in the code reviews if something looks weird, but the crux of API requires explicit microversion, and CLI uses latest is good | 12:17 |
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| johnthetubaguy | +1 for that distinction | 12:18 |
| alex_xu | sdague: +1 | 12:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | I guess the API user can explicitly request "latest" right? | 12:18 |
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| sdague | johnthetubaguy: yeh, it's allowed, I'm still iffy on whether that's a good idea or not | 12:19 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: yes | 12:19 |
| sdague | but it's pretty minor really | 12:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | so that all seems like a good starting point to me | 12:20 |
| alex_xu | emm...ask my question again, whether we need depend api-guidelien https://review.openstack.org/187112 it add something like return max/min when request invalid version? | 12:21 |
| alex_xu | I'm thing the client implement may depend on this. | 12:21 |
| alex_xu | if the client implement on this, we need some server side coding also | 12:22 |
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| sdague | alex_xu: honestly, I think we should just push forward for now, the api-wg general guidelines are emerging, and until we try some things we won't have the data to know if that's working or not | 12:22 |
| sdague | the point of microversions was we could fix any mistakes later with new microversions | 12:22 |
| sdague | so not spend forever being unsure | 12:23 |
| claudiub | well, there are a couple concerns with exposing the api versions... some servers prefer to hide the server version | 12:23 |
| claudiub | maybe have it as a config option? | 12:23 |
| sdague | claudiub: nope | 12:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | we are explicitly not allowing that sort of thing | 12:23 |
| sdague | this is part of the API contract | 12:23 |
| sdague | if you don't expose it, you aren't Nova | 12:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: +1 | 12:24 |
| andreykurilin | while we are here: Should we switch to use OpenStack-API-Version header instead of X-OpenStack-Nova-API-Version ? http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-June/066986.html | 12:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | claudiub: I know there are people who worry from a security point of view, but we need it for other reasons | 12:24 |
| sdague | andreykurilin: honestly, I think that discussion is still very much in flux, I think no action is needed at this point yet | 12:24 |
| claudiub | k, cool. | 12:24 |
| sdague | to be clear, we're not exposing the git hash of your server, we're exposing the API versions | 12:25 |
| alex_xu | sdague: so now the cli implement only depend on what we have? | 12:25 |
| andreykurilin | sdague: got it | 12:25 |
| sdague | alex_xu: yeh, I think for now, it's fine | 12:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | so we have APIs that need a client, so we have to make it work with what we have | 12:25 |
| alex_xu | ok, got it | 12:25 |
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| sdague | andreykurilin: I feel like something like http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-June/066986.html should go through api-wg ratification first, then we fix it in M | 12:25 |
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| alex_xu | sdague: emm...the microverions itself not under the protect of microversions | 12:26 |
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| alex_xu | so we need keep any change to microversion is back-compatible | 12:27 |
| alex_xu | that is one thing we should care about I think | 12:27 |
| sdague | right, so changing a header like that means we're going to have to have a deprecation and overlap phase | 12:27 |
| sdague | which is another reason I don't want to rush it | 12:27 |
| sdague | because it's an invasive enough change, for really unclear gains. Like CamelCase changes. | 12:28 |
| alex_xu | sdague: ok, deprecation is a way | 12:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | we would need a transition and discoverability discussion, etc, and thats cool, but its not for now | 12:28 |
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| alex_xu | ok, I see now | 12:29 |
| alex_xu | any more question for microversions? | 12:29 |
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| alex_xu | ok, let move on | 12:29 |
| alex_xu | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/liberty/approved/nova-api-remove-v3.html | 12:29 |
| alex_xu | thanks edleafe and his team, they already begin to work on | 12:29 |
| alex_xu | I think this is good progress | 12:30 |
| alex_xu | I guess no more question for this? | 12:30 |
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| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bp/nova-api-policy-final-part,n,z | 12:31 |
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| sdague | alex_xu: on the rm v3 bits, is there a patch stream? | 12:31 |
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| alex_xu | sdague: not yet, edleafe's team working on the plan, edleafe lead some opentack new man | 12:31 |
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| sdague | ok, cool | 12:31 |
| sdague | alex_xu: I look forward to that a lot | 12:32 |
| alex_xu | policy stuff is also good. we merged some patches in this two weeks. | 12:32 |
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| sdague | I'll go through the policy patches as soon as the meeting is over | 12:32 |
| alex_xu | sdague: thanks | 12:32 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/191188 | 12:33 |
| alex_xu | sdague start local bump guideline, it is pretty cool | 12:33 |
| sdague | yeh, I need to make another revision of that, I now understand what jaypipes was getting at, which I missed in the first review | 12:34 |
| alex_xu | and there are come out a lot of patch want to validate it~ | 12:34 |
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| alex_xu | sdague: cool, without I'm begin to afarid review api patch :) | 12:34 |
| sdague | right, I was trying to reference decisions we've made previously | 12:35 |
| alex_xu | sdague: the two step fix for 500, sounds interesting idea, except it is a little strange for fix 500 to wrong code in backport | 12:35 |
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| johnthetubaguy | do we have a similar doc for the policy defaults in code, renaming to match the URL rather than the code, and that kind of thing? | 12:36 |
| alex_xu | sdague: I'm think if there are some fix needn't new microversion, then this fix must be back-portable | 12:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | oh backports, did we wonder about leaving a few version numbers empty for backports? | 12:36 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: that's not really going to work | 12:37 |
| bauwser | so, why not x.y.z like objects ? | 12:37 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sdague: so true, we end up changing new version we released already | 12:37 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: right, exactly | 12:37 |
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| alex_xu | we need new plan for policy~ | 12:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: I remember going that before now | 12:37 |
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| sdague | alex_xu: yeh, so, honestly, the policy question is a really good one, and is kind of wrapped up with where keystone wants to take policy, which hasn't all been sorted yet | 12:38 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: if there is change bump rpc version, then we can't back-port it also? I think this is similar to microversion | 12:38 |
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| sdague | so, honestly, I just think a class of bugs that expose to the API are just "to get the fix, upgrade" | 12:39 |
| alex_xu | sdague: johnthetubaguy does this one still is we want https://review.openstack.org/179685? | 12:39 |
| bauwser | alex_xu: that's forbidden https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StableBranch#Stable_branch_policy | 12:40 |
| alex_xu | bauwser: thanks | 12:40 |
| bauwser | that said, some tooling is done for the objects, like I said | 12:41 |
| sdague | alex_xu: on the policy front, I feel like we don't want any smaller changes to policy until we have the big picture on the dynamic policy end game | 12:41 |
| bauwser | you can provide a .z version | 12:41 |
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| alex_xu | sdague: ok, so stop continue push that | 12:41 |
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| sdague | bauwser: the .z thing doesn't really work right here, because now someone writes their code to 2.4.5 | 12:42 |
| alex_xu | bauwser: I remember we have .z version propose before, but finally we remove that | 12:42 |
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| sdague | and their cloud updates to master | 12:42 |
| sdague | and 2.4.5 goes away | 12:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | so my take is we should work out what we would like in an ideal world, and get that written down, then start thinking about how we get there (implementation) | 12:42 |
| bauwser | sdague: I need more time for thinking about that, but I got your point | 12:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | my last comment was about policy, specifically | 12:43 |
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| bauwser | anyway, it was not possible *before* the microversions, so that's not that harsh | 12:43 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: yeh, on policy, I agree. | 12:43 |
| sdague | bauwser: right, it's not really a change | 12:43 |
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| sdague | it's just a bit more enforced in code now | 12:43 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: got it | 12:43 |
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| bauwser | I guess that's something to be discussed at the API WG level | 12:43 |
| bauwser | (talking about the stable backports) | 12:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauwser: its a non starter for micro version bumps, but it should be discussed there | 12:45 |
| sdague | honestly, making it easier to roll forward and just pick up changes should be the goal. If we get that to be seamless, it's a much better answer. | 12:45 |
| bauwser | +1 | 12:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: you mean get more folks deploying off master? | 12:45 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: yes | 12:45 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sdague: I so wish a distros would start pushing that way, and see how it works in that form | 12:46 |
| * alex_xu lose context, need re-read that part after meeting | 12:46 | |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: fortunately the new ansible openstack effort is all about that | 12:46 |
| sdague | so that will help move the needle I hope | 12:46 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sdague: interesting, hadn't spotted that one | 12:47 |
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| sdague | yeh, it's deploy from git, not from packages like the puppet effort | 12:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: I should get our ansible folks that are doing just that already to try and join in with that | 12:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | so we don't do from git, but anyways, interesting stuff | 12:48 |
| sdague | ok, any other topics? | 12:48 |
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| johnthetubaguy | +1 back to API, anything else burning | 12:48 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/187112 | 12:49 |
| alex_xu | quick update from me | 12:49 |
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| alex_xu | talk with ironic guys, they don't expermiental also | 12:49 |
| alex_xu | back to neutron guys, they are going to give it also~ | 12:49 |
| alex_xu | so~ yea, avoid another long argument | 12:50 |
| sdague | cool | 12:50 |
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| sdague | related, johnthetubaguy do we have whatever official spec / devref in that says extensions go away? | 12:50 |
| sdague | is that on your plate/ | 12:50 |
| sdague | ? | 12:50 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: we don't, it is on my radar though (in the summit follow up list, I think) | 12:51 |
| alex_xu | sdague: https://review.openstack.org/162912 | 12:51 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: ^ | 12:51 |
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| johnthetubaguy | ah, cools | 12:51 |
| alex_xu | and got jay's +2 | 12:51 |
| sdague | ok, great, will look | 12:51 |
| sdague | thanks alex_xu | 12:51 |
| alex_xu | np | 12:51 |
| alex_xu | and one message from me | 12:51 |
| alex_xu | I will take leave few days next week. because my baby will born. | 12:52 |
| claudiub | congrats. :) | 12:52 |
| gilliard | congrats! | 12:52 |
| sdague | alex_xu: congrats! | 12:52 |
| alex_xu | and my work may have a little slow down, sorry for that | 12:52 |
| alex_xu | thanks all :) | 12:52 |
| sdague | heh, yep, I know that :) It's a great adventure. | 12:52 |
| * alex_xu actually already slow down after summit, because spend some time between hospital and home and office | 12:53 | |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: awesome, good luck! | 12:53 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: thanks | 12:53 |
| alex_xu | and no more from me, any more question? | 12:53 |
| sdague | not from me, thanks everyone | 12:54 |
| * johnthetubaguy wonders if openstack should have run a new parent support group! | 12:54 | |
| johnthetubaguy | looks good from me | 12:54 |
| alex_xu | jacorob: hah | 12:54 |
| sdague | there have been a lot of #stackbabbies | 12:54 |
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| * alex_xu have no idea what happened after have baby | 12:54 | |
| gilliard | You're about to find out! | 12:55 |
| alex_xu | let us end the meeting :) | 12:55 |
| alex_xu | gilliard: yea | 12:55 |
| alex_xu | #endmeeting | 12:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 12:55 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Jun 19 12:55:20 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 12:55 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-06-19-12.00.html | 12:55 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-06-19-12.00.txt | 12:55 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-06-19-12.00.log.html | 12:55 |
| alex_xu | thanks all | 12:55 |
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| schwicke | #startmeeting hierarchical_multitenancy | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Jun 19 16:01:09 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is schwicke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hierarchical_multitenancy)" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'hierarchical_multitenancy' | 16:01 |
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| schwicke | Hi all! | 16:01 |
| raildo | hi schwicke :) | 16:01 |
| schwicke | nice to see you back1 | 16:01 |
| ericksonsantos | Hi :) | 16:01 |
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| schwicke | Sorry I had to drop out for a while for various personal and professional reasons | 16:01 |
| schwicke | :) | 16:01 |
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| raildo | schwicke, nice to see you back too :) | 16:02 |
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| belmoreira | o/ | 16:02 |
| vilobhmm | hello all | 16:02 |
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| schwicke | hi, Belmiro! Good to have you here as well | 16:02 |
| sajeesh | hi raildo | 16:02 |
| sajeesh | hi belmiro | 16:02 |
| schwicke | Hi, Raildo, Vilob! | 16:02 |
| sajeesh | hi vilob | 16:02 |
| vilobhmm | hello schwicke! hi sajeesh ! :) | 16:02 |
| vilobhmm | so if we have everyone should we start | 16:03 |
| raildo | hey sajeesh | 16:03 |
| sajeesh | ok | 16:03 |
| schwicke | I had circulated a set of topics to be discussed. I didn't get much feedback so lets just start | 16:03 |
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| schwicke | #topic Default quota patch - root level project gets default values set in cinder.conf | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Default quota patch - root level project gets default values set in cinder.conf (Meeting topic: hierarchical_multitenancy)" | 16:03 | |
| vilobhmm | schwicke : I am working on these changes | 16:03 |
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| schwicke | the question here was if we can do the same for nova | 16:03 |
| vilobhmm | will get the patch out EOD | 16:04 |
| schwicke | great! | 16:04 |
| ericksonsantos | nice | 16:04 |
| schwicke | this is for cinder, isn't it ? | 16:04 |
| sajeesh | schwicke it is done and I have uploaded the patch | 16:04 |
| schwicke | very good. So that can be ticket off. | 16:04 |
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| sajeesh | I mean in nova , it is done | 16:04 |
| schwicke | sajeesh: very good! | 16:04 |
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| vilobhmm | https://review.openstack.org/151677 | 16:05 |
| ericksonsantos | Did you solve your problem vilobhmm ? | 16:05 |
| sajeesh | thanks...please review it | 16:05 |
| vilobhmm | patch is nova under review | 16:05 |
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| sajeesh | yes | 16:05 |
| sajeesh | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/149828/ | 16:06 |
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| vilobhmm | ericsonsantos : I think just adding a classification of whether a project is a sub-project or not is not sufficient IMHO https://github.com/openstack/cinder/blob/master/cinder/quota.py#L106 | 16:06 |
| vilobhmm | sajeesh's default quota patch : https://review.openstack.org/151677 | 16:06 |
| vilobhmm | sajessh's nested quota driver patch : https://review.openstack.org/149828 | 16:06 |
| vilobhmm | so i have a question to raildo, eric, sajeesh | 16:07 |
| vilobhmm | so how do you guys go about testing the changes | 16:07 |
| sajeesh | that has to be abandoned...I think so | 16:07 |
| ericksonsantos | I think that is the wrong approach | 16:07 |
| ericksonsantos | as I have commented on the patch | 16:08 |
| vilobhmm | are you talking about https://review.openstack.org/151677 erissonsantos | 16:08 |
| ericksonsantos | vilobhmm, yes | 16:08 |
| vilobhmm | yes sajeesh I think https://review.openstack.org/#/c/151677/13/nova/quota.py won;t fly | 16:09 |
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| sajeesh | yes of course | 16:09 |
| vilobhmm | what we need to do is keep the default values same and see if we have a sub-project and then reset the values to zero as mentioned in the spec IMHO | 16:09 |
| raildo | vilobhmm, you mean test the quota code? The last time that I had tested was running tox, since there is some bugs in the all patches, and I can't put this in a devstack or something like that. | 16:09 |
| vilobhmm | please correct me if wrong | 16:09 |
| sajeesh | Vilobh, I have done like that in my new patch , https://review.openstack.org/#/c/149828/ | 16:10 |
| ericksonsantos | vilobhmm, yes, I do think so | 16:10 |
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| vilobhmm | raildo : thanks :) will come back to it in a while …. right now just focussing on https://review.openstack.org/151677 | 16:10 |
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| vilobhmm | sajeesh even with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/149828/16/nova/db/sqlalchemy/api.py IMHO you need more | 16:11 |
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| sajeesh | erickson , please check https://review.openstack.org/#/c/149828/. In that I have implemented the above said use case | 16:11 |
| raildo | vilobhmm, hum... I don't like this idea, since the current default values correspond to a single project, if we get this default values and divide to a hierarchy, you will have few resources for each subprojects | 16:11 |
| vilobhmm | as in the quota_create query you will need to update the allocated field which will be part of nova.quotas | 16:11 |
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| sajeesh | raildo, default values can be made higher | 16:12 |
| vilobhmm | sajeesh : will check it out! Thanks for all the efforts ! | 16:12 |
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| sajeesh | vilobh, it is not just api.py...more have been done | 16:12 |
| ericksonsantos | raildo, I think that approach is more safe | 16:13 |
| ericksonsantos | for now | 16:13 |
| raildo | sajeesh, the questions is, how much higher? I don't know how... I prefer just set to zero and the ops will decide this. | 16:13 |
| sajeesh | yes | 16:13 |
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| vilobhmm | ericsansantos : +1 | 16:13 |
| vilobhmm | raildo : you mean 0 even for the ROOT project ? | 16:13 |
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| vilobhmm | and then the respective admin does a nova quota-update to update the quota for the resp project ? | 16:14 |
| vilobhmm | but this idea didn't go well when sajeesh tried to convince the same to nova folks….sajeesh is that true ? | 16:14 |
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| ericksonsantos | sajeesh, i'll take a look at it | 16:14 |
| raildo | vilobhmm, yeap | 16:14 |
| sajeesh | yes | 16:14 |
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| sajeesh | raildo, when there is no heirarchy the NestedQuotaDriver should exactly work like the DbQuotaDriver | 16:15 |
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| schwicke | sorry, I had a networking problem and dropped out | 16:15 |
| raildo | sajeesh, hum... | 16:15 |
| vilobhmm | so do we have a conclusion on this that atleast for root project we let the default values be as it is whereas for sub-projects set it to 0 | 16:15 |
| sajeesh | for that root projects should have default quota values | 16:16 |
| sajeesh | that is one reason | 16:16 |
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| vilobhmm | and then let the admin update the quota for resp sub projects | 16:16 |
| vilobhmm | sajeesh : agree! | 16:16 |
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| schwicke | ok, can we agree on this then ? I can't see anything wrong with that | 16:17 |
| belmoreira | raildo: it will not be easy to merge this if you change current behaviour | 16:17 |
| sajeesh | the other one is that , the test cases of many other api s other than quota are written by expecting from finite default quota values | 16:17 |
| ericksonsantos | belmoreira ++ | 16:17 |
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| vilobhmm | true | 16:17 |
| vilobhmm | belmoreira : +1 | 16:17 |
| vilobhmm | sajeesh's email to community explaining the same problem https://www.mail-archive.com/openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org/msg53030.html | 16:18 |
| sajeesh | belmoreira:++1 | 16:18 |
| raildo | belmoreira, I don't want to change the behaviour, I just think that the current default quotas are not enough to a hierarchy, but I'm ok with that, this is not a big problem | 16:18 |
| schwicke | I agree that it does not look too nice to have to distinguish the root project from any other projects. On the other hand, it is already kind of a bit special, isn't it ? | 16:19 |
| sajeesh | values can be changed based on the scale of the organization | 16:19 |
| vilobhmm | raildo : I agree the default are not enough but they can be changed IMHO using quota-update once the project is created | 16:19 |
| vilobhmm | sajeesh : true | 16:19 |
| sajeesh | yes , it is | 16:19 |
| vilobhmm | so if we agree on this nova, cinder can take the same route and we can keep the functionality unified | 16:20 |
| schwicke | sounds good to me | 16:20 |
| sajeesh | vilob +1 | 16:20 |
| ericksonsantos | vilobhmm, so, we can do the same on cinder | 16:20 |
| schwicke | vilob: +1 | 16:20 |
| schwicke | I wonder if we need to update the BP for this | 16:20 |
| vilobhmm | schwicke : the blueprint/spec already says that | 16:21 |
| schwicke | ok | 16:21 |
| vilobhmm | we shoudl be good here | 16:21 |
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| schwicke | #agreed: the root project should have default quota values and children set the default quota to zero | 16:21 |
| vilobhmm | perfect ! | 16:21 |
| schwicke | #agreed: we take the same approach for cinder and for nova | 16:22 |
| schwicke | Let's move on then | 16:22 |
| sajeesh | ok | 16:22 |
| schwicke | #topic: writing unit tests | 16:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to ": writing unit tests (Meeting topic: hierarchical_multitenancy)" | 16:22 | |
| schwicke | where are we with this ? | 16:22 |
| vilobhmm | Update : from cinder perspective I have not started it yet | 16:23 |
| schwicke | ok | 16:23 |
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| vilobhmm | will need help here | 16:23 |
| vilobhmm | to move the patch quickly ahead | 16:23 |
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| schwicke | vilobhmm: you mean the unit tests for cinder? | 16:23 |
| sajeesh | shwicke we have solve the issue with mocking keystone calls | 16:23 |
| vilobhmm | ericsansantos has been very kind in providing help | 16:23 |
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| sajeesh | yes, thanks erickson | 16:23 |
| vilobhmm | schwicke : yes writing unit test for the nested quota driver changes | 16:23 |
| ericksonsantos | :) | 16:24 |
| ericksonsantos | sajeesh, how did you do that? | 16:24 |
| schwicke | let'smake that an action item then | 16:24 |
| schwicke | #action write unit tests for cinder | 16:24 |
| sajeesh | sorry...we have to solve the issue...I missed "to solve " :-) | 16:25 |
| schwicke | yes, next on the list | 16:25 |
| schwicke | what is the status of the unit tests for nova then ? | 16:25 |
| ericksonsantos | sajeesh, oh, I see | 16:25 |
| sajeesh | mocking keystone call is the road block | 16:25 |
| schwicke | #topic mocking keystone call | 16:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "mocking keystone call (Meeting topic: hierarchical_multitenancy)" | 16:26 | |
| sajeesh | I am planning to take advice from the community,by sending a mail | 16:26 |
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| belmoreira | sajeesh: please do | 16:27 |
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| vilobhmm | sajeesh : is there any place in nova code where they have done it before that we can use as a reference i will check in cinder code | 16:27 |
| sajeesh | ok | 16:27 |
| ericksonsantos | About the keystone calls, why don't you check if the specified project is a subproject | 16:27 |
| raildo | i recommend take a look in the nova and cinder tests. I believe that exists tests when they need to mock a keystone client, to request something in Keystone | 16:27 |
| sajeesh | vilob, no.. | 16:27 |
| ericksonsantos | (make a keystone call in order to know if the project has a parent_id) | 16:27 |
| vilobhmm | raildo : +1 | 16:27 |
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| ericksonsantos | on the controller level and provide this information to the configured quota driver? | 16:27 |
| sajeesh | raildo, they are mocking at the begining of the api call , not in the middle | 16:28 |
| ericksonsantos | sajeesh, we can do that too | 16:28 |
| ericksonsantos | we only need to change the approach, I guess | 16:28 |
| sajeesh | erickson, at controller won't it be having some other implications | 16:28 |
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| ericksonsantos | sajeesh, can you explain? | 16:29 |
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| sajeesh | I am also not sure of it | 16:29 |
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| sajeesh | that was why I had thought of taking advice from nova core | 16:29 |
| ericksonsantos | I think if we make keystone calls at the controller level we can mock it on functional tests | 16:30 |
| vilobhmm | ericksonsantos : If you can give some kind of a reference it should be useful IMHO | 16:30 |
| ericksonsantos | and we just have to pass to the configured quota driver what it needs to know (if the project is a subproject, for example) | 16:30 |
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| sajeesh | yes | 16:30 |
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| ericksonsantos | so do you agree on that? | 16:32 |
| belmoreira | I think it doesn't hurt asking in the mailing list. It also exposes the code for future review | 16:32 |
| sajeesh | belmoreira ++ | 16:32 |
| schwicke | belmoreira +1 | 16:32 |
| raildo | just to say that the other services don't access keystone directly, in other words, nova and cinder have to use the keystone client for that. | 16:32 |
| vilobhmm | belmoreira: + 1 | 16:32 |
| belmoreira | raildo: yes, that is my major concern | 16:33 |
| schwicke | sajeesh: can you draft a mail to the mailing list then ? | 16:33 |
| sajeesh | yes ..surely | 16:33 |
| vilobhmm | raildo : true…as part of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/149828/16/nova/api/openstack/compute/contrib/quotas.py I see that is already done… | 16:33 |
| vilobhmm | sajeesh is using from keystoneclient.v3 import client | 16:34 |
| vilobhmm | to use keystone client to access keystone from nova IMHO | 16:34 |
| vilobhmm | and the approach should be same for unit test as well nova->keystoneclient->keystone | 16:35 |
| vilobhmm | mocked may be | 16:35 |
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| vilobhmm | so we agree that sajeesh will send out an email …lets move to next topic | 16:35 |
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| schwicke | #agreed Sajeesh will contact the mailing list to get advice on the keystone call | 16:36 |
| sajeesh | one more thing ...only the test code is failing , otherwise code is working fine and all the use cases in the bp has been implemented | 16:36 |
| schwicke | #action Sajeesh contact the mailing list to get advice on the keystone call | 16:36 |
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| schwicke | ok | 16:37 |
| vilobhmm | sajeesh : awesome ! | 16:37 |
| schwicke | I had "synchronisation of quota changes in sub-projects with Nova" on my original topic list | 16:37 |
| schwicke | which is essentially the keystone calls we just discussed. | 16:37 |
| schwicke | so let's move on | 16:37 |
| sajeesh | :-) | 16:37 |
| schwicke | #topic code availability and merging of patches | 16:37 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "code availability and merging of patches (Meeting topic: hierarchical_multitenancy)" | 16:37 | |
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| ericksonsantos | sajeesh, so you've tested on devstack? | 16:38 |
| sajeesh | erickson ,yes | 16:38 |
| ericksonsantos | sajeesh, nice | 16:38 |
| vilobhmm | cool | 16:38 |
| sajeesh | Can you please test it ? | 16:38 |
| ericksonsantos | sajeesh, sure | 16:39 |
| sajeesh | thanks | 16:39 |
| vilobhmm | Update for Cinder | 16:39 |
| vilobhmm | 1. Seeing weird gate errors here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/185704/ otherwise this should get merged soon | 16:39 |
| schwicke | #action ericksonsantos will test the code | 16:39 |
| vilobhmm | have enough +1, +2 | 16:39 |
| vilobhmm | 2. Will send out code for default quota values based on what we agreed on in today meeting i.e root gets default sub-project gets 0 | 16:40 |
| schwicke | ok | 16:40 |
| schwicke | #action vilobhmm will update cinder code with agreed items from this meeting | 16:41 |
| schwicke | Sajeesh has already uploaded the latest code, right ? | 16:41 |
| sajeesh | yes | 16:42 |
| vilobhmm | 3. I am on a family trip from Jun 24 - July 7th will work remotely as an when I get time…but I am commited to finshing my work on nested quota driver implementation.. | 16:42 |
| raildo | vilobhmm, migrate.exceptions.ScriptError: You can only have one Python script per version, but you have: /home/jenkins/workspace/gate-cinder-python27/cinder/db/sqlalchemy/migrate_repo/versions/047_add_allocated_in_quotas.py and /home/jenkins/workspace/gate-cinder-python27/cinder/db/sqlalchemy/migrate_repo/versions/047_add_per_volume_quota.py | 16:42 |
| raildo | vilobhmm, you need to do rebase on your patch | 16:42 |
| vilobhmm | need to update the version of the table then | 16:42 |
| raildo | vilobhmm, yes | 16:42 |
| vilobhmm | raildo : thanks for pointing that out….thats what happens when the reviews take longer :) | 16:42 |
| sajeesh | :) | 16:43 |
| schwicke | want me to action item that / | 16:43 |
| schwicke | ? | 16:43 |
| ericksonsantos | vilobhmm, I can help you with that if you want to | 16:43 |
| vilobhmm | so if all all can chip in for the review when i post it in next 1 hour for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/185704/ that will be helpful | 16:43 |
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| vilobhmm | eriksonsantos : I will get it rolling in next hour…please review it if you can….thank you! | 16:44 |
| ericksonsantos | vilobhmm, ok | 16:44 |
| schwicke | #action all: review next update of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/185704/ asap | 16:44 |
| vilobhmm | schwicke : thats it from my side | 16:44 |
| schwicke | ok | 16:44 |
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| vilobhmm | as in cinder nested quota driver | 16:45 |
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| vilobhmm | schwicke : thanks :) | 16:45 |
| sajeesh | schwicke: thanks a lot :-) | 16:45 |
| schwicke | so I think we are through with that as well | 16:45 |
| vilobhmm | and I will review all the patches that sajeesh will post so that we can move quicker.. | 16:46 |
| schwicke | one thing is still not 100% clear to me: where are we with the unit test writing for the hierarchical quota in nova ? | 16:46 |
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| sajeesh | vilobh thanks....I will review yours | 16:46 |
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| vilobhmm | sajeesh : thanks! | 16:47 |
| sajeesh | schwicke, we have to solve the keystone issue | 16:47 |
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| schwicke | ok, sure. | 16:47 |
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| schwicke | #topic AOB | 16:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: hierarchical_multitenancy)" | 16:47 | |
| sajeesh | then only we can proceed with the unit tests | 16:47 |
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| vilobhmm | schwicke : If we have covered all the topic I would like to have an open question for the team | 16:48 |
| schwicke | so let's see what the community says. I also think we should review next Friday. | 16:48 |
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| vilobhmm | sure | 16:48 |
| sajeesh | yes | 16:48 |
| schwicke | vilobhmm: please go ahead! | 16:48 |
| vilobhmm | so sajeesh more specifically to you…since you tested the code on devstack….how dis you structure your policy.json and how did you make sure that the nova quota commands that you use ; make sue of the keystone v3 api ? | 16:49 |
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| sajeesh | while testing the api calls , I use keystone v3 token token only | 16:51 |
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| vilobhmm | ok | 16:51 |
| vilobhmm | but how did you structure your policy.json | 16:51 |
| raildo | and looking in the policy.json, you need a admin role | 16:51 |
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| sajeesh | nova policy engine will take care of it | 16:51 |
| vilobhmm | because for token scoping that changes needs to be there | 16:51 |
| raildo | https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/etc/nova/policy.json#L108 | 16:51 |
| ericksonsantos | vilobhmm, ++ | 16:51 |
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| sajeesh | I have changed the policy rules | 16:52 |
| vilobhmm | I don't see a change for policy.json here…do they need to here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/149828/16 ? | 16:52 |
| vilobhmm | raildo : sure | 16:52 |
| vilobhmm | thanks for the link | 16:52 |
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| sajeesh | vilob it is a different change | 16:53 |
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| vilobhmm | alrite then | 16:53 |
| vilobhmm | that makes sense | 16:53 |
| sajeesh | you can traverse the dependancy chain and find it | 16:53 |
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| vilobhmm | sajeesh : if you can point me to that change it will be ncie | 16:54 |
| sajeesh | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/182522/ | 16:54 |
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| vilobhmm | cool | 16:54 |
| vilobhmm | thats it from my side…thank you all…I think this meeting was really helpful ! | 16:55 |
| vilobhmm | nice to meet you all ! :) | 16:55 |
| schwicke | nice to meet you! | 16:55 |
| schwicke | so let's meet again in a week from now! | 16:55 |
| raildo | see you next week :) | 16:55 |
| sajeesh | ok | 16:55 |
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| schwicke | let's try to gain some speed. The sooner we contact the comunity the better | 16:55 |
| schwicke | ncie week end! | 16:55 |
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| sajeesh | Good Bye all | 16:55 |
| ericksonsantos | see you | 16:56 |
| vilobhmm | sure..you too ! | 16:56 |
| ericksonsantos | :) | 16:56 |
| schwicke | #endmeeting | 16:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Jun 19 16:56:06 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hierarchical_multitenancy/2015/hierarchical_multitenancy.2015-06-19-16.01.html | 16:56 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hierarchical_multitenancy/2015/hierarchical_multitenancy.2015-06-19-16.01.txt | 16:56 |
| sajeesh | Nice weekend :-) | 16:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hierarchical_multitenancy/2015/hierarchical_multitenancy.2015-06-19-16.01.log.html | 16:56 |
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| wbhuber_ | notmyname: peluse: i should be getting some performance benchmarking numbers out on tuesday (via github outlet) or some sort. right now i'm getting numbers crunched in a literal manner. stay tuned. | 17:09 |
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| eglute | #startmeeting Diversity Working Group | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Jun 19 18:00:57 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is eglute. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Diversity Working Group)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'diversity_working_group' | 18:01 |
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| rainya | hihi eglute :) | 18:01 |
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| kavit | hello all | 18:01 |
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| MeganR | Hi | 18:01 |
| TamaraJ | Hello! | 18:01 |
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| eglute | Hello Everyone, if you are here for openstack diversity working group, please waive o/ and lets use etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/OpenStackDiversity.1 | 18:01 |
| rainya | o/ | 18:02 |
| barrett | o/ | 18:02 |
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| eglute | #topic introductions | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "introductions (Meeting topic: Diversity Working Group)" | 18:02 | |
| kavit | o/ | 18:02 |
| MeganR | o/ | 18:02 |
| ShillaSaebi | Hello | 18:02 |
| arcee2 | o/ | 18:02 |
| TamaraJ | o/ | 18:02 |
| gpruessmann | o/ | 18:02 |
| imadsousou | o/ | 18:02 |
| TamaraJ | o/ | 18:02 |
| AlanClark | o/ | 18:02 |
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| lsell | hi everyone | 18:03 |
| ShillaSaebi | o/ | 18:03 |
| eglute | #chair kavit | 18:03 |
| openstack | Current chairs: eglute kavit | 18:03 |
| * AlanClark does 'o\' show that I am left handed? | 18:03 | |
| cmassey | hello | 18:03 |
| eglute | #chair imadsousou | 18:03 |
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| openstack | Current chairs: eglute imadsousou kavit | 18:03 |
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| eglute | AlanClark \o does! | 18:03 |
| eglute | :D | 18:03 |
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| nikiacosta | hi there! | 18:04 |
| wznoinsk | o/ | 18:04 |
| ninag | hi | 18:04 |
| AlanClark | \o (for diversity :-) | 18:04 |
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| imadsousou | Hi Alan | 18:05 |
| AlanClark | (Friday humor) | 18:05 |
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| jfleet | jfleet | 18:05 |
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| eglute | Hi Everyone! Raise your right, left, or both hands if you are attending the meeting. \o o/ \o/ | 18:05 |
| electrocucaracha | \o/ | 18:05 |
| jfleet | \o/ | 18:05 |
| kavit | south paws represent! \o (hi Alan) | 18:05 |
| Rockyg | o/ | 18:05 |
| ninag | \o/ | 18:06 |
| imadsousou | \o/ \o/ \o/ | 18:06 |
| arcee2 | \o/ | 18:06 |
| gpruessmann | \o/ | 18:06 |
| eglute | Is Carol B. here? she sent out a lot of the communications about the working group | 18:06 |
| barrett | yes, I'm here | 18:06 |
| eglute | #chair barrett | 18:06 |
| openstack | Current chairs: barrett eglute imadsousou kavit | 18:06 |
| eglute | hello barrett! | 18:07 |
| barrett | Hi eglute | 18:07 |
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| barrett | Do we want to start with the 1st topic on the agenda? | 18:07 |
| nikiacosta | yes! | 18:07 |
| divya | o/ | 18:07 |
| kavit | I think we should | 18:07 |
| Vince_ | \O | 18:07 |
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| barrett | #topic Introductions | 18:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Introductions (Meeting topic: Diversity Working Group)" | 18:08 | |
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| barrett | Can folks indentify who they are and what company they are with? | 18:08 |
| ShillaSaebi | sure | 18:08 |
| TamaraJohnston | 18:08 | |
| nikiacosta | Niki Acosta, Cloud Evangelist, Cisco | 18:08 |
| jfleet | jfleet Cloud304 | 18:08 |
| imadsousou | Imad Sousou - Intel | 18:08 |
| * kavit Kavit Munshi - Aptira | 18:08 | |
| rainya | Rainya Mosher, Product Manager, Rackspace | 18:08 |
| ninag | Nina Goradia, IBM | 18:08 |
| ShillaSaebi | my name is Shilla - OpenStack Operations Engineer, Comcast | 18:09 |
| AlanClark | Alan Clark SUSE | 18:09 |
| eglute | Egle Sigler, Principal Architect at Rackspace | 18:09 |
| * jbryce works at OpenStack Foundation | 18:09 | |
| arcee2 | Val Wanjura, Technical Ops Mgr, Rackspace | 18:09 |
| gpruessmann | Gerd Pruessmann, Deutsche Telekom AG | 18:09 |
| lsell | Lauren Sell, OpenStack Foundation | 18:09 |
| electrocucaracha | Victor Morales - Intel | 18:09 |
| cmassey | Claire Massey, OpenStack Foundation | 18:09 |
| wznoinsk | Waldemar Znoinski - Intel | 18:09 |
| TamaraJohnston | Tamara Johnston, EMC Global Services - Cloud | 18:09 |
| barrett | Carol Barrett, Intel | 18:09 |
| Rockyg | Rocky Grober, Huawei | 18:10 |
| barrett | Great group! | 18:10 |
| amandap | o/ | 18:10 |
| ShillaSaebi | +1 | 18:10 |
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| barrett | Let's go to the next agenda item | 18:10 |
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| barrett | #topic Mission Discussion and definition of Diversity | 18:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mission Discussion and definition of Diversity (Meeting topic: Diversity Working Group)" | 18:11 | |
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| Mauri | Mauri Whalen - Intel | 18:11 |
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| barrett | You can find the mission for the group on the wiki page | 18:11 |
| barrett | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Diversity | 18:11 |
| barrett | It is: The OpenStack Foundation Board of Directors is committed to fostering an inclusive and welcoming place for all people to collaborate to drive innovation and design cutting-edge data center capabilities. This Work Group is chartered to determine what actions are required to fulfill this commitment | 18:12 |
| MeganR | Megan Rossetti - Comcast | 18:12 |
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| ShillaSaebi | nice, I like the mission statement | 18:12 |
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| kavit | We had some healthy discussion at the summit board meeting in Vacouver and received some feedback from the board about tweaking the charter | 18:12 |
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| barrett | There has been some discussion about how we define diversity, would be interested in discussing that here | 18:12 |
| barrett | kavit: +1 | 18:13 |
| kavit | also the Diversity wiki doesnt have the charter that was discussed | 18:13 |
| eglute | i am trying to find it, just a minute | 18:13 |
| nikiacosta | diversity - eliminate bias on the basis of age, race, creed, color, sex, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability, marital status, and socioeconomic status. | 18:13 |
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| rainya | M-W.com: diversity, noun, : the quality or state of having many different forms, types, ideas, etc. : the state of having people who are different races or who have different cultures in a group or organization | 18:13 |
| nikiacosta | that's the general definition | 18:13 |
| ShillaSaebi | and all sexes | 18:14 |
| nikiacosta | is the focus on this specficially for cultural diversity and gender diversity primarily? what are the goals? | 18:14 |
| Rockyg | I think, for Open source, we need to expand diversity to include QA engnineers, UX, Ops, etc. They are kinda ghetto-ized, too | 18:14 |
| rainya | for me diversity is really about getting a variety of *thought* more than anything; so that any problem has lots of diferent viewpoints and experiences coloring the outcome | 18:14 |
| eglute | I pasted the proposed charter into etherpad: #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/OpenStackDiversity.1 | 18:15 |
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| ninag | rainya: +1 | 18:15 |
| eglute | sorry lost formatting :( | 18:15 |
| kavit | maybe paste it in here also if people arent opposed to a small wall of text :) | 18:16 |
| rainya | and that variety comes from different disciplines (engineers, devs, qa, ux, ops, product managers) as well as cultural and gender backgrounds | 18:16 |
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| nikiacosta | "while finding answers to our most pressing challenges" - are we talking about openstack's most pressing challenges? if so, what are those? | 18:16 |
| barrett | rainya: +1 | 18:17 |
| nikiacosta | ie, where are we falling short? | 18:17 |
| eglute | nikiacosta that is what we are hoping to define | 18:17 |
| Rockyg | rainya: +1 | 18:17 |
| nikiacosta | is there an opinion that openstack is not welcoming enough? or that we're not welcoming to women? | 18:17 |
| nikiacosta | or people of other countries? | 18:18 |
| jfleet | Openstack Challenges to me seem to be information to the masses as to what it does. They know about what the name is but what does it do, has been what I see out here... | 18:18 |
| eglute | Some things we have seen: not enough women, not enough geographical diversity | 18:18 |
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| nikiacosta | gotcha. so what are the goals? | 18:18 |
| electrocucaracha | eglute: +1 | 18:18 |
| ShillaSaebi | not that I know of but I think we should try to make it known that we are welcoming to all | 18:18 |
| nikiacosta | what is the general ratio of women to men in tech? | 18:18 |
| Rockyg | QA from the QA discipline is different from what OS QA is. The ones that turn up tend to get very frustrated | 18:18 |
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| imadsousou | broadly speaking, and this is probably an overall tech statement; diversity tends to be lacking in the areas including including race, color, religion, sex,national origin, language, ancestry, age, disability, medical condition, genetic information, military andveteran status, marital status, pregnancy, gender, gender expression, gender identity, sexual orientationand other aspects | 18:18 |
| nikiacosta | that should give us a baseline for the gender part | 18:18 |
| imadsousou | so the real question is what is it that we should be doing as project and community and foundation to encourage diversity | 18:19 |
| wznoinsk | nikiacosta: eglute is that more of a 'diversity' challenges (ie. to invite more people that may be separated in one way or the other) or rather openstack's technical challenges (like features, containers, service chaining) ? | 18:19 |
| ShillaSaebi | imadsousou +1 | 18:19 |
| nikiacosta | seems to me we want to be welcoming to all, but specific drivers are those aimed at women and "geographical" diversity | 18:19 |
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| nikiacosta | can we start with those? | 18:19 |
| kavit | I think there needs to be a clearly defined diversity policy, we have a transparency polcy. It makes sense to have a diversity policy so there is no place for ambiguity. We also need clarity with setting diversity goals. Each group inside the OpenStack ecosystem can Identify what those goals are for their group and we as the working group can help them with it | 18:19 |
| Rockyg | Outreach can extend beyond internships to talks at schools, weekend hackathons, etc | 18:20 |
| wznoinsk | ... and to invite more diverse ppl to these challenges | 18:20 |
| electrocucaracha | imadsousou: at the end is not to have diversity by diversity, it's because diversity in talent isn't it? | 18:20 |
| rainya | nikiacosta, one of the things i have heard numerous times is getting started in OpenStack is difficult; jsut in the last week, a woman Quality Engineer and were talking about how she wants to get started, but the ramp up seems extreme and counter to her day job | 18:20 |
| nikiacosta | that's addressable. | 18:20 |
| nikiacosta | through programs. | 18:20 |
| nikiacosta | i think | 18:20 |
| rainya | nikiacosta, +1 on women and geography | 18:20 |
| ShillaSaebi | what about transgenders? | 18:20 |
| ShillaSaebi | I don't think it should be just women | 18:21 |
| rainya | i consider a transgender woman a woman | 18:21 |
| rainya | if she ID's as female, then she is in my book | 18:21 |
| Rockyg | mentors are extremely important | 18:21 |
| imadsousou | I think a good start would be to focus on things to do (policies and otherwise) that would encourage under-represented 'segments' and then how do we retain these folks... what policies or otherwise to encourage this kind of retention | 18:21 |
| nikiacosta | we can't boil the ocean. let's keep the scope narrow for programs that will address the most pressing issues. of course we want to be welcoming to everyone, but geographical and gender are at the top of the list, our focus shoudl be on those. | 18:21 |
| amandap | +1 nikiacosta | 18:22 |
| barrett | nikiacosta: +1 | 18:22 |
| imadsousou | in order to really do anything, we first need metrics... | 18:22 |
| nikiacosta | that doesn't mean the others aren't important. | 18:22 |
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| divya | +1 for mentoring | 18:22 |
| rainya | and while focusing on gender diversity, how to NOT persecute the men already in the community or who might want to join! | 18:22 |
| imadsousou | so do we have good metrics on diversity in the various openstack aspects | 18:22 |
| kavit | I think drivers should follow a broad set of guidelines and policies. Firstly we need a policy document that any openstack group can look at and ascertain where they are | 18:22 |
| Rockyg | rainya: +1 | 18:22 |
| nikiacosta | +1 rainya! | 18:22 |
| rainya | I don't want to be mean girls. :( | 18:23 |
| ShillaSaebi | yeah I agree with that completely | 18:23 |
| eglute | I have updated Etherpad with stats that lsell has prepared before vancouver summit | 18:23 |
| rainya | I see it way too often with diversity efforts! | 18:23 |
| barrett | Lots of good thoughts and disucssion. I'm wondering if we can ask a couple of folks to draft a diversity definition for this group that we can dicusss in a future meeting? | 18:23 |
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| TamaraJohnston | I think a good start is the stats from the OpenStack summit, where woman were what, 10% of the attendees? Do we have diversity stats on the members of the community? | 18:23 |
| amandap | imadsousou: There were some metrics mentioned on the number of women attending summit -- that's the only one I know of. barrett, are there more out there? | 18:23 |
| rainya | that's great eglute! starting on Line 55 | 18:23 |
| ShillaSaebi | I remember hearing 10% | 18:23 |
| nikiacosta | that's the thing-- once you create sub-groups, you essentially are re-emphasizing the divide. challenge is to offer encouragement, support, programs, without it feeling devisive. | 18:24 |
| Rockyg | If we divide the work, mentors can be quickly applied to diverse people who want to participate. Metrics can be collected in parallel | 18:24 |
| rainya | TamaraJohnston, the panel i was on for diversity in vancouver cited 9%, up from Paris by 4% i believe? | 18:24 |
| barrett | imadsousou: yes, I think there is more data we can mine. | 18:24 |
| imadsousou | but do we have metrics on things as contributions? | 18:24 |
| eglute | • 10% - Vancouver, May 2015 | 18:25 |
| eglute | • 10% - Paris, Nov 2014 | 18:25 |
| eglute | • 9% - Atlanta, may 2014 | 18:25 |
| eglute | • 7% - Hong Kong, Nov 2013 | 18:25 |
| TamaraJohnston | Yeah i forget if it was 4 or 5% | 18:25 |
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| imadsousou | I think its a great start to have the summit metrics... I saw these - great | 18:25 |
| rainya | this is saying it was 10%? | 18:25 |
| TamaraJohnston | ty eglute | 18:25 |
| rainya | interesting | 18:25 |
| nikiacosta | http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/04/04/3422975/women-tech-outnumbered/ | 18:25 |
| kavit | I think we need the board to ratify the working group charter, we should try and get the language sorted for the charter so that the concerns raised by legal counsel and other board members are assauged. | 18:25 |
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| wznoinsk | imadsousou: a long shot but is it doable to get gender info from openstack Communit Member (when you register on openstack.org you select your gender) | 18:25 |
| eglute | line 145 in ethepad for statistics | 18:25 |
| rainya | Geographic Demographics | 18:25 |
| rainya | Vancouver Summit (May 2015) Attendee Demographics (5,600+ - updated count will be tallied on Monday night) | 18:25 |
| rainya | • 75% - North America | 18:25 |
| rainya | • 12% - Europe | 18:25 |
| amandap | eglute: Where are those stats from? | 18:25 |
| rainya | • 10% - APAC | 18:25 |
| rainya | • 2% - Middle East | 18:25 |
| rainya | • 1% - Latin America | 18:25 |
| rainya | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/OpenStackDiversity.1 starts on Line 55, lsell prepared them | 18:25 |
| barrett | kavit: +1 | 18:26 |
| eglute | amandap lsell has provided them | 18:26 |
| rainya | kavit, what was some of the feedback on the charter in Vancouver? | 18:26 |
| nikiacosta | So if men outnumber women 7 to 3, we should aim for at least 70% to 30% split amongst attendees, yes? | 18:26 |
| eglute | nikiacosta that would be great | 18:26 |
| eglute | feedback we received on the charter: too broad | 18:27 |
| nikiacosta | I think the location of the summits also drive ability to attend. | 18:27 |
| kavit | rainya, there was general agreement on the need for the workgroup, the feedback was mostly about the operational scope of the charter | 18:27 |
| rainya | imadsousou, we could check with stefano and see if there are contribution numbers avaialble by gender? and geography? as well as company | 18:27 |
| barrett | It seems like we need to agree on a definition of Diversity to help guide our analysis and data mining - do people agree? | 18:27 |
| TamaraJohnston | nikiacosta +1 | 18:27 |
| eglute | nikiacosta agree on attendance, the foundation moves them from place to place on purpose, to increase geographical representation | 18:27 |
| jfleet | yes | 18:27 |
| imadsousou | unlikely this is true -- I've seen many other surveys... and frankly, you do not need a survey just walk around any high tech enviorenemt | 18:27 |
| nikiacosta | @barrett- agreed. we need goals. | 18:28 |
| kavit | we need to be more specific and have no legal ambiguity about the mandate of the working group | 18:28 |
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| ShillaSaebi | barrett yes | 18:28 |
| eglute | lets start with some action items. | 18:28 |
| eglute | #action rainya to check with stefano and see if there are contribution numbers avaialble by gender? and geography? as well as company | 18:28 |
| ozstacker | Except that every second summit is in North America? | 18:28 |
| kavit | eglute, imho first item on the list should be about getting the charter approved by the BoD in the July F2F | 18:28 |
| barrett | nikiacosta: I think the definition or scope will enable use to set goals -- and then define programs to achieve them | 18:28 |
| lsell | first a heads up to the group that stefano is no longer with the foundation. he will still be an active part of the community at another ecosystem company, but just FYI | 18:28 |
| eglute | kavit agree we need that too! | 18:28 |
| barrett | eglute: +1 | 18:28 |
| imadsousou | +1 | 18:29 |
| lsell | shameless plug, we are hiring community managers :) | 18:29 |
| ShillaSaebi | haha | 18:29 |
| Vince_ | +1 | 18:29 |
| amandap | lol | 18:29 |
| nikiacosta | so can we agree that geographic and gender diversity top the list? | 18:29 |
| eglute | lsell thank you for the update | 18:29 |
| nikiacosta | is there a third? | 18:29 |
| lsell | second, my understanding unfortunately is that we do not currently have visibility into contributor diversity and gender data | 18:29 |
| eglute | +1 on geographic and gender diversity top the list | 18:29 |
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| eglute | ok, i remove my first action item | 18:29 |
| imadsousou | race | 18:30 |
| nikiacosta | so let's focus on these. we can include a statement that openstack welcomes anyone regardless of x,y,z... | 18:30 |
| ShillaSaebi | can you explain what you mean about geographic diversity? | 18:30 |
| barrett | imadsousou: +1 | 18:30 |
| TamaraJohnston | +1 | 18:30 |
| nikiacosta | more contributors from other parts of the world | 18:30 |
| nikiacosta | more attendee representation from other countries. | 18:30 |
| gpruessmann | W.r.t. geographic diversity: number of attendees from Africa? Below the line? i guess a list of "top attending" geographical areas is exactly the opposite of what we need, we need a list of non-attending countries, isn't it? or low number attending countries? | 18:30 |
| ShillaSaebi | ok | 18:30 |
| barrett | Are we in agreement on these 3 elements for our diviersity effort: Geographic, Gender, Race? | 18:30 |
| ShillaSaebi | yes | 18:30 |
| Rockyg | So, part of the problem is that many of the local events around the world don't make it to the OpenStack Community list of events | 18:30 |
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| nikiacosta | do we have visiblity into where downloads are happening? | 18:30 |
| imadsousou | yes | 18:30 |
| jfleet | yes | 18:30 |
| jbryce | also, the board actually agreed that the working group should get started as it would be bring individual actions back for approval if necessary | 18:30 |
| ninag | yes | 18:30 |
| nikiacosta | by country? | 18:30 |
| ShillaSaebi | Race is a big one in my eyes | 18:31 |
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| jfleet | Race is big for me | 18:31 |
| nikiacosta | i wonder if the linux foundation or other open source groups have stats | 18:31 |
| imadsousou | we can discuss geographic by region or country... I like region: North America, Europe, etc... | 18:31 |
| nikiacosta | to use as a baseline | 18:31 |
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| nikiacosta | we need somethign to mirror | 18:31 |
| jbryce | and we can do a lot through the volunteers here and staff efforts without holding things up for board meetings | 18:31 |
| barrett | #agree The priority elements for our diviersity efforts now will be: Geographic, Gender, Race | 18:32 |
| kavit | imadsousou, regions make more sense, I would agree with that | 18:32 |
| Rockyg | Well, MIT has tons of stats and it's 48% female for undergrad | 18:32 |
| rainya | lsell, thank you for the information! good to know; will see what other options there are to mine the data | 18:32 |
| nikiacosta | And what is our average age of openstack founation member? | 18:32 |
| Rockyg | I can get you the MIT stats. They break it down by major, too. | 18:32 |
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| nikiacosta | IMO, probably will take a while for undergrads to enter the job market | 18:32 |
| nikiacosta | what's the national average? | 18:32 |
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| barrett | Is the next action to get volunteers to take on defining the terms for each item? | 18:33 |
| rainya | nikiacosta, what national average are you asking about? lost track | 18:33 |
| eglute | barrett i think so | 18:33 |
| Rockyg | MIT has been 45+% female for ten years. | 18:33 |
| nikiacosta | MIT is amazing. | 18:33 |
| ShillaSaebi | yes | 18:34 |
| nikiacosta | few schools have programs that recruit women as effectively. | 18:34 |
| nikiacosta | our avearge should be in line by national averages. | 18:34 |
| Rockyg | The school has the stats going back to the beginning. We can see what there stats were for grads 5 years out, ten, etc | 18:34 |
| nikiacosta | you could do it by region | 18:34 |
| Vince_ | Has religion been put in to the mix? Multitasking and not sure I saw anything about it. | 18:34 |
| nikiacosta | FYI-- would regions be N. america, europe, asia/s. pacific, etc? | 18:34 |
| ShillaSaebi | no it hasn't, religion and age are other good ones | 18:34 |
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| barrett | OK - volunteers for defining these terms? With an eye to the next step being data analysis.... | 18:34 |
| rainya | me me me! | 18:34 |
| Rockyg | Religion has not been focused on, but itis in the mix | 18:35 |
| barrett | rainya: which one do you want to take? | 18:35 |
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| nikiacosta | Race is a hot debate that (based on my facebook feed) is creating a lot of let's just say "passionate posts" | 18:35 |
| ShillaSaebi | yup absolutely | 18:35 |
| ozstacker | "national averages" wow. | 18:35 |
| eglute | One of the issues with the diversity proposal we had was that it was too broad. we need to focus first on the top, for our diversity efforts now will be: Geographic, Gender, Race | 18:35 |
| rainya | barrett, is there another one besides "diversity" ? are we looking to define geographic deviersty / gender deviersity / race diversity? | 18:36 |
| barrett | nikiacosta: do you want to take race? | 18:36 |
| ozstacker | you might want to take a wider view. | 18:36 |
| nikiacosta | i think geograhaphic goals will also create racial diveresity without saying "racial diversity" | 18:36 |
| nikiacosta | NO! | 18:36 |
| barrett | eglute: +1 | 18:36 |
| eglute | ozstacker we did, and were told we were overreaching, that it would be too broad and nothing would get done. | 18:36 |
| nikiacosta | Creating programs to attract people by race is not a good idea. | 18:36 |
| eglute | nikiacosta, sorry, what do you object to? | 18:37 |
| jfleet | Why is that not a good idea ? | 18:37 |
| barrett | rainya: Its the 3 areas of: Geographic, Gender, Race | 18:37 |
| jbryce | eglute: i think tristan (aka ozstacker) is picking on the use of the term “national” specifically | 18:37 |
| amandap | future exploration should certainly be on age and disability as well | 18:37 |
| eglute | too many people talking at once | 18:37 |
| Rockyg | It's too much like quotas | 18:37 |
| eglute | jbryce thanks | 18:37 |
| kavit | national pertains to numbers in the US only, I think we should look past that | 18:37 |
| rainya | i am writing a couple notes / thoughts in the etherpad; i started with gender and geographic and then hit a wall at race | 18:37 |
| nikiacosta | Because it's difficult to create programs aimed at racial groups without potential backlash. | 18:37 |
| nikiacosta | it's a sensitive topic. | 18:37 |
| rainya | so very sensitive | 18:37 |
| Rockyg | +100 for age ;-) | 18:37 |
| amandap | eglute: Agreed, but it's nice to see a large group interested | 18:37 |
| barrett | amandap: +1, I think we can look to other aspects of diversity in the future... | 18:38 |
| nikiacosta | Cultural diversity? okay | 18:38 |
| nikiacosta | Race? not so much | 18:38 |
| ShillaSaebi | yes | 18:38 |
| ShillaSaebi | thats fine | 18:38 |
| rainya | Barrett: "Top areas of focus for diversity: GENDER (male to female ratio); GEOGRAPHIC (downloads, contribution, and attendance by country; what countries / regions have low or NO representation?); CULTURE" | 18:38 |
| nikiacosta | how do we define "cutlural diversity" goals without leaving folks out? | 18:38 |
| eglute | amandap i am excited to see so many interested people! we need all kinds of diversity, and there should be no exclusion/discrimination based on anything | 18:39 |
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| nikiacosta | Geograpic diversity, gender divesity. | 18:39 |
| Rockyg | So, Class is one of the really biggest issues. If you look at class, you will find most of the other issues embedded | 18:39 |
| amandap | rainya: barrett "male to female ratio" isn't sitting well with me, can it be a more inclusive metric? | 18:39 |
| kavit | I think we should work towards a diveristy policy, it should be one of our proposals to the BoD to approve | 18:39 |
| Rockyg | nerd to non-nerd ;-) | 18:40 |
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| eglute | who can help with the diversity policy? | 18:40 |
| nikiacosta | I'm thinking ahead. Programs. Programs aimed at geograhpies and women/transgender, great! | 18:40 |
| rainya | amandap, barett: agreed! perhaps we can work on it through email? | 18:40 |
| eglute | taking volunteers to help define diversity policy | 18:40 |
| nikiacosta | programs aimed at cultural diversity? hard! | 18:40 |
| barrett | kavit: Agree, think we should consider creating diversity statements to add to the Code of Coonduct | 18:40 |
| ShillaSaebi | I can help with it | 18:40 |
| eglute | thank you ShillaSaebi anyone else? | 18:40 |
| nikiacosta | Male to female to trans/cisgender? | 18:40 |
| rainya | eglute: i think that's what i thought I was signing up for with definitions so i will! | 18:40 |
| amandap | rainya: barrett That would be great | 18:41 |
| nikiacosta | buddy program!!!!! | 18:41 |
| amandap | eglute: I can help | 18:41 |
| barrett | amandap: Yes, we can do that. Do you want to lead the discussion to define Gender diversity for this group? | 18:41 |
| Rockyg | programs offered in places where breaking the barriers is happening, not so hard? | 18:41 |
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| eglute | volunteer list at line 49 in etherpad, thanks rainya | 18:42 |
| amandap | barrett: Sure, that should an interesting one :) | 18:42 |
| rainya | #action rainya amandap to collaboration on diversity defintions for GENDER, GEOGRAPHIC, CULTURE | 18:42 |
| barrett | #action rainya amandap to collaboration on diversity defintions for GENDER, GEOGRAPHIC, CULTURE | 18:42 |
| rainya | pretend I spell more gooder than i do | 18:42 |
| nikiacosta | Is there a way to update membership to include "tags" for openstack foundation members? And ability to make your tags available for others to search? | 18:42 |
| nikiacosta | @rainya lol | 18:43 |
| rainya | nikiacosta, you're solutioning i think :) | 18:43 |
| eglute | kavit can you lead the diversity definion work? | 18:43 |
| nikiacosta | i am. because i want to make sure that the things we focus on are actionble. | 18:43 |
| rainya | nikiacosta, i could be wrong, but it feels like it might be! LOL | 18:43 |
| eglute | thank you kavit | 18:43 |
| kavit | eglute, aye aye! | 18:43 |
| ozstacker | You really need to establish the policy first and then set measurable objectives. | 18:43 |
| eglute | ozstacker can you help with the policy? | 18:44 |
| barrett | kavit: When do you think you can review a draft with this group? | 18:44 |
| gpruessmann | "cultural diversity" from my point of view is not specific enough, it is hard to focus on specific actions / programs. additionally the community consists of thousands of participants from all continents and hundreds of countries. an external person probably would not consider the OS community having issues with "cultural diversity" i guess | 18:44 |
| ozstacker | sure | 18:44 |
| eglute | thanks! | 18:44 |
| nikiacosta | I don't think you can set cultural diversity objectives objectively. | 18:44 |
| kavit | ozstacker, I have put that an action item | 18:44 |
| ozstacker | np | 18:44 |
| nikiacosta | @gpruessmann - that's what i'm sayin! | 18:45 |
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| ozstacker | And next step is have a meeting that is 12 hours different to this one, and include others before deciding on _anything_ | 18:45 |
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| nikiacosta | is there any group/company/foundation that y'all think are doing it "right"? | 18:45 |
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| eglute | #action kavit ozstacker ShillaSaebi rainya amandap nikiacosta to work on defining diversity policy | 18:46 |
| nikiacosta | gender and geography are kind of easy. culture is hard. | 18:46 |
| rainya | eglute, barrett: time check; there are 15 minutes left | 18:46 |
| Rockyg | mit;-) | 18:46 |
| nikiacosta | k | 18:46 |
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| barrett | OK - we have a team formed to work on the diversity definition. Can we move to the next agenda topic? | 18:46 |
| kavit | barrett, I am available at the earliest. We can do it in 2 weeks. needs to before the next f2f BoD meeting | 18:46 |
| ozstacker | nikiacosta, Yeah, Telstra seems to be onto it. | 18:46 |
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| eglute | barrett agreed, i would like to talk about meeting frequency/times | 18:46 |
| kavit | nikiacosta, ozstacker was right, telstra have done well | 18:47 |
| barrett | kavit: agree, needs to be done well before next BoD. Think we'd actually like to have an analysis complete against the definition for the July BoD meeting | 18:47 |
| nikiacosta | Anyone here from Telstra? | 18:47 |
| Rockyg | niki: a couple of companies, but I can't remember the names at the moment | 18:47 |
| eglute | #topic meeting frequency and time | 18:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "meeting frequency and time (Meeting topic: Diversity Working Group)" | 18:47 | |
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| nikiacosta | once every two or three weeks? | 18:48 |
| ozstacker | They might be if it wasn't 4am here :) | 18:48 |
| eglute | since this is our first meeting, please list your time zone. would you attend meetings if they were at alternate times? | 18:48 |
| eglute | eglute CST | 18:48 |
| amandap | Speaking of fostering geographical diversity ;-) | 18:48 |
| nikiacosta | CST | 18:48 |
| barrett | I wonder if we want to have weekly meetings, given the interest, and alternate them between US/EMEA-friendly and APAC/Japan-friendly? | 18:48 |
| rainya | rainya CST | 18:48 |
| gpruessmann | CET | 18:48 |
| kavit | Kavit IST | 18:48 |
| TamaraJohnston | PST | 18:48 |
| amandap | PT and yes | 18:48 |
| nikiacosta | I think we should nominate leads for geographies. | 18:48 |
| jfleet | EST yes | 18:49 |
| ozstacker | Maybe fortnightly, but flip the time 12 hours. Then we'll see who's dedicated attending both :) | 18:49 |
| cmassey | CST | 18:49 |
| luz_cazares | CST | 18:49 |
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| ninag | cst | 18:49 |
| Rockyg | UTC -7/8 | 18:49 |
| rainya | Rockyg, what is that in nont UTC? EST? | 18:49 |
| rainya | EDT really | 18:49 |
| ShillaSaebi | EDT | 18:49 |
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| rainya | ozstacker, what's your timezone? | 18:50 |
| eglute | nikiacosta how would leads for geographies work? what do you have in mind? | 18:50 |
| Rockyg | PST But doing the offset from utc is the best. People don't know all the abreviations | 18:50 |
| rainya | Rockyg, agreed! I'm making a note in the attedee list and will translate :D | 18:50 |
| Rockyg | PDT = utc-7 PST=utc-8 | 18:50 |
| kavit | he is AEST and I am IST (UTC + 1000 and UTC + 0530 respectively) | 18:50 |
| ozstacker | As an example, this meeting time is 5 to 6pm on a Friday night in Western Europe. Who in their right mind would want to attend at that time. | 18:50 |
| Rockyg | ozstacker: nerds | 18:51 |
| ozstacker | rainya Here it's 4am | 18:51 |
| rainya | thanks kavit! | 18:51 |
| amandap | Rockyg: 1 point to you | 18:51 |
| barrett | Meet every 2 weeks and alternate times to be globally inclusive? | 18:51 |
| eglute | that is why i am proposing alternating times, cause it will be hard to find optimal time | 18:51 |
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| eglute | barrett i like that | 18:51 |
| * kavit seconds barrett | 18:51 | |
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| gpruessmann | foster time zone diversity | 18:52 |
| nikiacosta | @eglute - hard to meet everyone's needs, but if we had 3 or 4 people in a core group for geographies who could serve as delegates, it might make it easier to get stuff done | 18:52 |
| kavit | be equally inconvenient for everyone :) | 18:52 |
| eglute | nikiacosta that is good idea. | 18:52 |
| barrett | How about I take the action item to start 1-2 doodles to find the best times for us to meet? | 18:52 |
| Rockyg | nikiacosta: +1 | 18:52 |
| gpruessmann | @kavit +1 | 18:52 |
| barrett | nikiacosta: +1 | 18:52 |
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| eglute | #action barrett to start 1-2 doodles to find the best times for us to meet? | 18:52 |
| Rockyg | Might consider three times, with reps attending 2 of three | 18:52 |
| nikiacosta | yes. | 18:53 |
| nikiacosta | great idea, rocky. | 18:53 |
| ShillaSaebi | good idea | 18:53 |
| Vince_ | +1 | 18:53 |
| barrett | RockyG: Not quite sure why we need 3...? | 18:53 |
| barrett | RockyG: Will circle round with you offline before I setup doodles | 18:53 |
| nikiacosta | even two options woudl be great! | 18:54 |
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| Rockyg | because all the times otherwise chosen are still inconvenient for the folks on the cusps | 18:54 |
| ozstacker | nor am i. the ambassadors manage to function with two times. | 18:54 |
| nikiacosta | two times. do it! | 18:54 |
| barrett | nikiacosta: How do we get the geo rep delegates? | 18:54 |
| Rockyg | ambassadors are supposed to be shining examples | 18:54 |
| nikiacosta | nomination. | 18:54 |
| nikiacosta | ? | 18:54 |
| Rockyg | barrett: ++ | 18:54 |
| eglute | #agreed on two alternating times | 18:54 |
| TamaraJohnston | I would like to be a member of the core group for AMS and/or West coast (apologies if my messages are coming across delayed... my internet connection is horrible this morning!). | 18:54 |
| kavit | ambassadors gonna ambassadate | 18:54 |
| nikiacosta | once we have times, we can seek nominees. | 18:54 |
| nikiacosta | lol @kavit!!!! | 18:55 |
| barrett | nikiacosta: +1 | 18:55 |
| imadsousou | nikiacosta: +1 | 18:55 |
| rainya | + <3 | 18:55 |
| barrett | 5 mins left - we'll use doodles to set our next meeting time, targeting 2 weeks. What else do we want to cover before we're done? | 18:55 |
| nikiacosta | i think the magic number for getting stuff done is teams of 7 to 9 max | 18:55 |
| rainya | diversity of support nods! ;) | 18:56 |
| eglute | #action nikiacosta to seek ambassadors for different time zones once we have the times set | 18:56 |
| rainya | nikiacosta, works for scrum! 5 to 7 is ideal. 9 is pushing it | 18:56 |
| nikiacosta | how am i signing myself up for more work?!?! | 18:56 |
| nikiacosta | lol | 18:56 |
| rainya | nikiacosta, glutton? | 18:56 |
| amandap | rainya: but that's not fostering diversity of group size ;-) | 18:56 |
| eglute | nikiacosta you can also decline and i will volunteer someone else :) | 18:57 |
| rainya | you'll have help! I have been well under repped in my openstack participating this year so am making up for it | 18:57 |
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| Rockyg | nikiacosta: another underrepresented group --masochists? | 18:57 |
| nikiacosta | lolz. | 18:57 |
| rainya | [i also have a migraine right now from the dumb weather here so words are fuuuun] | 18:57 |
| kavit | haha | 18:57 |
| eglute | so we are almost out of time, i think we have some great action items. Question: do we need a separate mailing list for this work group? | 18:57 |
| eglute | right now we are using foundation@ | 18:57 |
| rainya | i'd love to see a dedicated list personally | 18:58 |
| amandap | nikiacosta: rainya I'll also help -- though I expect you would kill it | 18:58 |
| nikiacosta | i bet we have a good idea of nominees. ambassadors should be able to give us good insight into who their most vocal folks are | 18:58 |
| kavit | we cant have two 2 and two 3s in the action items :P | 18:58 |
| eglute | +1 on the list if you would like a new mailing list | 18:58 |
| nikiacosta | yes! amandap!!! | 18:58 |
| rainya | amandap, i like your style! | 18:58 |
| ShillaSaebi | +1 on the ML | 18:58 |
| ozstacker | please no more mailing lists :( | 18:58 |
| Rockyg | bigot! | 18:58 |
| eglute | we have +2 and -1, any others | 18:58 |
| ozstacker | there is next to nothing on Foundation and Community. Lets please use those. | 18:58 |
| amandap | lol | 18:58 |
| jbryce | what if we defer on the mailing list until we see if there’s enough traffic to justify a new one | 18:58 |
| ShillaSaebi | sounds good | 18:59 |
| Rockyg | 2 2s and 2 3s just want to exist in peace! | 18:59 |
| rainya | jbryce, good call | 18:59 |
| eglute | jbryce ok, that will work | 18:59 |
| ozstacker | bam! | 18:59 |
| jbryce | otherwise it risks becoming another hard-to-find, easy-to-forget channel | 18:59 |
| kavit | +1 jbryce | 18:59 |
| TamaraJohnston | jbryce - agree | 18:59 |
| nikiacosta | So community list?> | 18:59 |
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| rainya | that's leadership in action! | 18:59 |
| barrett | jbryce: +1 | 18:59 |
| eglute | foundation@ nikiacosta | 18:59 |
| gpruessmann | no ML diversity please | 18:59 |
| nikiacosta | community + foundation or community OR foudnation | 18:59 |
| jbryce | OR | 19:00 |
| rainya | JUST foundation@ yes? | 19:00 |
| *** cmassey has left #openstack-meeting | 19:00 | |
| kavit | we should stick to one to avoid split replies | 19:00 |
| eglute | +1 foundation | 19:00 |
| gpruessmann | +1 foundation | 19:00 |
| barrett | +1 foundation | 19:00 |
| ozstacker | i better resub to Foundation then I guess. Jeez. Just when I thought I was out.... | 19:00 |
| barrett | We're out of time for today - glad to see so many enthusiastic folks getting involved! | 19:00 |
| Rockyg | +1 with [Diversity] label | 19:00 |
| barrett | Keep an eye out for the Doodles | 19:00 |
| eglute | thanks everyone for attending! and great conversation! | 19:01 |
| barrett | RockyG +1 | 19:01 |
| rainya | thank you all! great times. | 19:01 |
| amandap | Rockyg: +1 | 19:01 |
| kavit | you could have just gone to bed a bit earlier ozstacker :) | 19:01 |
| ozstacker | ni nite | 19:01 |
| nikiacosta | <3! | 19:01 |
| imadsousou | thanks | 19:01 |
| eglute | #endmeeting | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Jun 19 19:01:17 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:01 |
| MeganR | Thank you | 19:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/diversity_working_group/2015/diversity_working_group.2015-06-19-18.00.html | 19:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/diversity_working_group/2015/diversity_working_group.2015-06-19-18.00.txt | 19:01 |
| gpruessmann | good nite | 19:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/diversity_working_group/2015/diversity_working_group.2015-06-19-18.00.log.html | 19:01 |
| ShillaSaebi | bye! | 19:01 |
| jfleet | bye | 19:01 |
| kavit | ciao for now | 19:01 |
| amandap | bye | 19:01 |
| barrett | bye | 19:01 |
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| Rockyg | ttfn | 19:01 |
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| electroc_ | adios | 19:01 |
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