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| dmgweb | hello, any idea? http://pastebin.com/CqtmUQH6 | 10:44 |
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| dmgweb | in v2 works fine | 10:44 |
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| Daisy | Hello, who is there for I18n meeting ? | 13:00 |
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| katomo | Hi | 13:00 |
| Adri2000 | hi | 13:00 |
| ianychoi | Hello, I am here (Korean). | 13:00 |
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| Daisy | Hi, katomo, Adri2000 and ianychoi | 13:00 |
| Daisy | Let's start | 13:00 |
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| janonymous | hi | 13:01 |
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| Daisy | #startmeeting OpenStack I18n Meeting | 13:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 18 13:01:44 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Daisy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 13:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_i18n_meeting' | 13:01 |
| Fdot | Hello Daisy :) | 13:01 |
| Daisy | Hello, Fdot | 13:01 |
| Fdot | Hello everybody | 13:01 |
| Daisy | It looks like there are some new IDs | 13:02 |
| jftalta | Hi all | 13:02 |
| ianychoi | Hello all :) | 13:02 |
| Daisy | Where do you from, Adri2000 , janonymous ? | 13:02 |
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| katomo | ianychoi: Hello, I'm KATO Tomoyuki from Japan. | 13:03 |
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| jftalta | thanks for the glossary Daisy :) | 13:03 |
| ianychoi | katomo, I'm Ian from Korea. Nice to meet you :) | 13:03 |
| Daisy | You are welcome, jftalta | 13:03 |
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| ianychoi | Daisy, I have just seen the glossary google sheet. Can I or ujuc add Korean part? | 13:03 |
| Adri2000 | Daisy: hi, I'm French (know jftalta and Fdot), I haven't been active with translations recently, but I added an item to the agenda | 13:04 |
| Daisy | Let's talk about that later, ianychoi | 13:04 |
| Daisy | Thank you, Adri2000 | 13:04 |
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| ianychoi | Okay :) | 13:04 |
| Daisy | I hope the meeting time is fine with you, Adri2000 | 13:04 |
| Daisy | #topic Review translation terminologies | 13:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review translation terminologies (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 13:05 | |
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| Daisy | I have distributed the link to terminologies before the meeting. | 13:05 |
| Daisy | There are some feedbacks. | 13:05 |
| Daisy | Let's discuss about several issues together. | 13:06 |
| jftalta | Now we have to increase its size by adding new terms | 13:06 |
| Daisy | jftalta: Yes. It should be maintained continusly | 13:06 |
| Daisy | 1. singular or plural | 13:06 |
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| Daisy | Look at row 74 and 75 | 13:07 |
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| Daisy | There are quota and quotas | 13:07 |
| Daisy | Should we keep only singular ? | 13:07 |
| katomo | yes, just a moment. | 13:07 |
| Fdot | Daisy: yes | 13:08 |
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| Daisy | OK. Then delete "quotas" | 13:08 |
| katomo | ok | 13:08 |
| ianychoi | ok | 13:08 |
| jftalta | I agree with fdot | 13:08 |
| Daisy | 2. I suggest every term starts with a capital letter. | 13:08 |
| Daisy | Agree ? | 13:08 |
| Fdot | \o_ +1 | 13:09 |
| jftalta | every term, everywhere ? | 13:09 |
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| Daisy | good question, jftalta | 13:09 |
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| Fdot | It is only a terminology guide not sure if capital letter is important or not | 13:09 |
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| Daisy | I don't know, jftalta . Like "availability zone" | 13:10 |
| amotoki_ | i don't think we need to start a capital letter too. | 13:10 |
| katomo | -1 I don't think need capital. | 13:10 |
| jftalta | Agree with fdot. | 13:10 |
| ianychoi | How about all letters non-capital except abbreviations (e.g., IP, CIDR)? | 13:10 |
| Fdot | let's use not capital letter except for abbreviations | 13:11 |
| amotoki_ | If a term is a proper noun, it sounds reasonable to start with a capital letter. | 13:11 |
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| Fdot | +1 for ianychoi | 13:11 |
| katomo | +1 ianychoi | 13:11 |
| amotoki_ | abbrev term should be upper. | 13:11 |
| Daisy | I agree with ianychoi too. | 13:11 |
| amotoki_ | ianychoi: +1 | 13:11 |
| katomo | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/Conventions | 13:11 |
| Daisy | Nice. Then all letters non-capital except abbreviations | 13:12 |
| jftalta | +1 ianychoi | 13:12 |
| Daisy | 3. version control | 13:12 |
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| katomo | we remember to need to follow the Documentaion conventions. | 13:12 |
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| Daisy | katomo: which part of the conventions are important to us, katomo ? | 13:13 |
| katomo | Daisy: Service and project names | 13:14 |
| amotoki_ | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/Conventions#Terms_and_usage is a useful guideline for "term" | 13:14 |
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| katomo | yeah | 13:14 |
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| Daisy | Good suggestions, katomo and amotoki | 13:16 |
| Daisy | We should follow these in our term list | 13:16 |
| Daisy | Then version control | 13:16 |
| Daisy | Do we need version control of terminology ? | 13:16 |
| Daisy | It may be a pot and a serials of po files in a git repository. | 13:16 |
| Daisy | And we upload to Transifex too, for translation. | 13:16 |
| Daisy | We use auto synchronization job , just like the other sync jobs between pot in doc repository and transifex | 13:16 |
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| Daisy | Hello ? Am I disconnected ? | 13:17 |
| doug-fish | you aren't Daisy | 13:17 |
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| doug-fish | it's just a quiet meeting I think | 13:17 |
| Daisy | oh. What happen ? | 13:18 |
| Fdot | For versionning I don't know | 13:18 |
| ianychoi | My Internet is slow... k | 13:18 |
| Fdot | it depends of the tools we are going to use | 13:18 |
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| Fdot | if we use Transifex / Zanata we don't really need versionning | 13:18 |
| Daisy | Fdot: I like the version idea. We could have a openstack-i18n repo, and we maintain the terminologies pot/po files there. | 13:19 |
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| Fdot | Daisy: why ? :) | 13:19 |
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| Daisy | Fdot: just follow the style of other projects. Using git repo to maintain pot, using Jenkins job to syncronize, using Transifex/Zanata to translate. | 13:20 |
| ianychoi | I agree with version control concept, but just google doc revision history and wiki history would be sufficient, in my opinion. | 13:20 |
| amotoki_ | but it is also important to make it easy to update by a lang team. | 13:20 |
| ianychoi | Git is also good. | 13:20 |
| Fdot | Daisy: works for me :) | 13:20 |
| amotoki_ | I think the usual openstack review system does not work for us. | 13:20 |
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| jftalta | I Like the idea of a git repo to | 13:21 |
| Daisy | I think there is only 1 terminology list, amotoki. | 13:21 |
| Daisy | Do you want lang team to update terminology easily ? | 13:21 |
| amotoki_ | Daisy: the terminology list in source lang? | 13:21 |
| amotoki_ | i.e. English version | 13:21 |
| Fdot | Daisy amotoki_ each lang team need to easily update the list | 13:22 |
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| Daisy | Yes, in English, and only 1. The whole i18n team maintain only 1 term list. If a lang team update it, all lang teams use the updated version. | 13:22 |
| amotoki_ | i haven't followed fully the situation. | 13:22 |
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| Daisy | I think we should use unique terminologies list in our team. | 13:22 |
| amotoki_ | it sounds reasonable to use vcs to maintain the master term list in English. | 13:23 |
| Fdot | Agree with Daisy :) | 13:23 |
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| Daisy | Of course, the translations should be updated easily. | 13:23 |
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| Daisy | I mean, only 1 English version, but multiple translated version. Do I make sense ? | 13:23 |
| amotoki_ | yes | 13:23 |
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| ianychoi | yes | 13:24 |
| Daisy | Thank you, amotoki | 13:24 |
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| Daisy | Then as to repo, let's try repo. Keep in a repo and in Transifex/Zanata at the same time. Agree ? | 13:25 |
| katomo | +1 | 13:25 |
| Fdot | Daisy: let's try like this | 13:25 |
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| Fdot | +1 | 13:25 |
| Daisy | Thanks, Fdot | 13:25 |
| jftalta | +1 | 13:25 |
| Daisy | Thank you, all. Next one. | 13:25 |
| ianychoi | +1 | 13:25 |
| Daisy | 4. string freeze | 13:25 |
| amotoki_ | one question | 13:25 |
| Daisy | amotoki: please what's the question ? | 13:26 |
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| amotoki_ | my question is about the usage of translated term list. | 13:26 |
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| amotoki_ | is it just a reference for trans memory? | 13:26 |
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| amotoki_ | or is it used in the translated document? (i.e. visible to endusers)? | 13:27 |
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| Fdot | amotoki_: it will be invisible to the endusers | 13:27 |
| Daisy | terminologies are used by our translators. | 13:27 |
| Fdot | amotoki_: it is a tool for the lang team | 13:27 |
| Daisy | It is known as "Glossary" in Transifex | 13:27 |
| amotoki_ | thanks for clarification! sounds reasonable. | 13:27 |
| Daisy | 4. string freeze | 13:28 |
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| Daisy | Do we need string freeze for the terminologies ? | 13:28 |
| Fdot | Daisy: i don't think so | 13:28 |
| Fdot | it has to live its own life :) | 13:29 |
| Daisy | string freeze has two means: one is source strings are freeze, the second is translated strings are freeze. | 13:29 |
| katomo | I don't need | 13:29 |
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| amotoki_ | i don't think so. | 13:29 |
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| Daisy | I agree with Fdot and katomo | 13:29 |
| jftalta | What do you mean Daisy ? | 13:29 |
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| amotoki_ | it is just a reference to share our knowledge among translators. | 13:29 |
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| ujuc | hi, i late..; | 13:30 |
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| Fdot | hello ujuc :) | 13:30 |
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| amotoki_ | ujuc: i hope the new meeting is comfortable to you :-) | 13:30 |
| amotoki_ | meeting time | 13:30 |
| ujuc | :) | 13:30 |
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| ianychoi | :) I told ujuc to come here :) | 13:30 |
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| Daisy | I mean, "string freeze" has two meanings in my mind. One is "the English source strings" or "the term list" is not changed. The other is "the translated strings, e.g. French translated terms" is not changed. | 13:31 |
| katomo | ujuc: hello | 13:31 |
| ujuc | :) | 13:31 |
| jftalta | Not sure that freezing the glossary is a good idea... | 13:31 |
| Daisy | I don't think terminology string freeze is useful in my translation experience. | 13:31 |
| Fdot | so we are all agree : no string freeze :) | 13:32 |
| Daisy | jftalta: I don't know. I think we could try "no string freeze" for a while. If the terms change a lot and it affect our translation work, we discuss about string freeze. | 13:32 |
| Fdot | +1 Daisy \o_ | 13:32 |
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| ianychoi | okay | 13:33 |
| amotoki_ | +1 we can improve in the agile style. | 13:33 |
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| Daisy | OK. Next one | 13:33 |
| jftalta | Ok | 13:33 |
| katomo | +1 | 13:33 |
| Daisy | 5. maintain of terminology | 13:34 |
| Daisy | This one is hard. | 13:34 |
| Daisy | Let's separate it into two small items. | 13:34 |
| Daisy | 5.1 maintain of the list | 13:34 |
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| Daisy | means adding or removing terms from the list | 13:34 |
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| Daisy | ianychoi: you can talk about your question now. You want to add terms used by Korean team ? | 13:35 |
| amotoki_ | what is the second one? am not sure what the first one covers. | 13:35 |
| ianychoi | Yes :) | 13:35 |
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| Daisy | 5.1 maintain of the terminology list. It means adding new terms or removing existing one. 5.2 maintain of the translations. I think 5.2 is easy because each translation may have their experiences in maintain the term translation. | 13:37 |
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| ianychoi | What I understand from 5.1 ->who can add/remove terms list? | 13:37 |
| amotoki_ | Daisy: thanks | 13:37 |
| ianychoi | Am I understanding right? | 13:37 |
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| Fdot | Daisy: agree with 5.2 | 13:37 |
| Daisy | Yes, ianychoi. Or how can add/remove terms from the list . | 13:38 |
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| Fdot | For 5.1 we can centralize the update | 13:38 |
| Fdot | gerrit is overkill for this I think | 13:38 |
| amotoki_ | how does the docs team maintain the glossary? | 13:38 |
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| amotoki_ | we can learn their workflow. | 13:38 |
| Daisy | katomo: do you know how doc team maintain the glossary ? | 13:39 |
| katomo | not certain. | 13:39 |
| Daisy | ianychoi: can you share us the link to Korean terms ? | 13:39 |
| katomo | I don't know. | 13:39 |
| Fdot | Small proposal : Someone centralize all the request for adding or removing terms in the list. And then we discuss about the request during the next meetings | 13:40 |
| fifieldt | docs team maintains glossary using git | 13:40 |
| fifieldt | in one repository | 13:40 |
| fifieldt | then it is copied by a script to other repositories | 13:40 |
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| ianychoi | Daisy, I remember that ujuc created a wiki site. I will update to that page and tell you. | 13:40 |
| katomo | I usually maintain glossary by hand. | 13:40 |
| ianychoi | or i18n mailing list. | 13:40 |
| Daisy | fifieldt: I like the idea to maintain by git. | 13:40 |
| fifieldt | ( https://github.com/openstack/openstack-manuals/tree/master/doc/glossary ) | 13:40 |
| Daisy | I have an idea. | 13:40 |
| katomo | yes! fifieldt | 13:41 |
| jftalta | ? | 13:41 |
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| Daisy | We use git to store our term (we had the agreement just now). If somebody wants to add new terms or remove terms, submit a patch. | 13:41 |
| Daisy | I think it's a wonderful idea. :)) | 13:41 |
| ujuc | +1 | 13:42 |
| ujuc | :) | 13:42 |
| ianychoi | +1 | 13:42 |
| amotoki_ | now I return to the initial quesiton. why do we need to maintain a separate version of glossary? | 13:42 |
| Fdot | +1 | 13:42 |
| katomo | +1 | 13:42 |
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| jftalta | And | 13:42 |
| jftalta | Sorry | 13:42 |
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| amotoki_ | sorry for returning the initial quesiton in the summit. i wan't there. | 13:43 |
| jftalta | and who will review the patch ? | 13:43 |
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| katomo | jftalta: docs team | 13:43 |
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| amotoki_ | it seems we are trying to do a duplicated work. | 13:43 |
| katomo | For example, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/190208/ | 13:43 |
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| Daisy | amotoki: as to your question, we discussed this one in the summit. Doc has a long list of glossary, more than 600. Translators only want to maintain a small list. Doc glossaries are specific words in Openstack area. Translators may want small and frequently used terms. They are different kind. | 13:44 |
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| Daisy | katomo: No, our I18n teams | 13:44 |
| amotoki_ | can't we just translate or use a part of the list which they are interested in? | 13:44 |
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| Daisy | Sorry. Our I18n team maintain our own repo, and we review our own patches. | 13:45 |
| katomo | sorry... i missed question. | 13:45 |
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| katomo | agree with Daisy | 13:45 |
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| Daisy | jftalta asked "who will review the patch ?" My answer: it's our repo, the reviewers should be I18n team members. | 13:45 |
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| fifieldt | example - "Allocate IP IPの確保 (※Associate ととの調整必要あり)" | 13:45 |
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| fifieldt | probably won't be found in docs glossary | 13:45 |
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| fifieldt | authorize 許可(ただし文脈による) | 13:46 |
| fifieldt | might be another one | 13:46 |
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| amotoki_ | fifieldt: I think it is a discussion inside each lang team. | 13:46 |
| katomo | Daisy, jftalta: ok +1 | 13:46 |
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| fifieldt | thanks amotoki_, I'm just talking from docs team perspective | 13:46 |
| fifieldt | if someone proposed "authorise" to the glossary in https://github.com/openstack/openstack-manuals/tree/master/doc/glossary | 13:46 |
| fifieldt | it will likely be rejected | 13:47 |
| amotoki_ | fifieldt: got your point. | 13:47 |
| fifieldt | thanks | 13:47 |
| fifieldt | sorry, please go on | 13:47 |
| amotoki_ | translation of the glossary in documentations are visible to endusers. that is a big difference. | 13:47 |
| Daisy | amotoki: the purpose to use teams in translation is to keep the consistency and quality. | 13:47 |
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| amotoki_ | Daisy: we are discussing now how to maintain the master list of the glossary. | 13:48 |
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| Daisy | ok. | 13:48 |
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| jftalta | Only 10' to go | 13:49 |
| amotoki_ | I understand the value that we have separate translation place from the translator perspecitve, | 13:49 |
| Daisy | Can we move to "5.2 maintain of the translations" now ? | 13:49 |
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| amotoki_ | but it does not convince me why we need to maintain the separate master repo. it is just my feeling, so you can go to the road. | 13:49 |
| amotoki_ | please go ahead. | 13:50 |
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| Fdot | Daisy: I am not sur that once the list is going to be translated it is going to move too much ;) | 13:50 |
| Daisy | Terms are stored in git repo, and translated by the web UI of Zanata, or Transifex. | 13:50 |
| Fdot | Maintain the translation and the list is going to be simple | 13:51 |
| fifieldt | amotoki_: there are some scripts from docs glossary that might be helpful/extendible to ensure alignment between whatever glossaries exist, but of course it depends on the model :) | 13:51 |
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| amotoki_ | what i concern is just "hey let's add it to the i18n term list. It was recently added to the docs glossary". | 13:52 |
| amotoki_ | that's all. | 13:52 |
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| fifieldt | right | 13:54 |
| Fdot | amotoki_: it is more going to be "in lang team there is a lot of question about how to translate this term can we add it to the list ?" | 13:54 |
| fifieldt | the term list should be based on need | 13:54 |
| Fdot | fifieldt: +1 \o_ | 13:54 |
| adiantum | fifieldt: +1 | 13:54 |
| Fdot | fifieldt: that was my point :) | 13:54 |
| amotoki_ | fifieldt: agree | 13:54 |
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| Adri2000 | there are quite a few items left in the agenda for today... https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/I18nTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting - can some discussion move to the mailing-list? | 13:55 |
| jftalta | Agree with fifieldt | 13:55 |
| fifieldt | lol, did not mean to steal other people's point! | 13:55 |
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| Fdot | fifieldt :) | 13:56 |
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| Adri2000 | Daisy timed out | 13:57 |
| Adri2000 | I don't know what's next :) | 13:57 |
| jftalta | Meeting is over ? | 13:58 |
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| ianychoi | Hello :) | 13:59 |
| jftalta | See you i18n team | 13:59 |
| Adri2000 | I'm afraid time is out :( | 13:59 |
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| Daisy | :) I just disconnected. | 13:59 |
| Daisy | Sorry | 13:59 |
| Adri2000 | what are we doing with the rest of the agenda? | 13:59 |
| -amotoki_- am sorry for stealing time for other discussions.... | 13:59 | |
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| katomo | :) | 13:59 |
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| Daisy | I will read the meeting minutes to catch up my lost part. | 14:00 |
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| fifieldt | unfortunately, the ops-tags team has this room booked from now | 14:00 |
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| Daisy | Time is up. | 14:00 |
| Daisy | We have to close the meeting now. | 14:00 |
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| maishsk_afk | fifieldt: you are prompt… :) | 14:00 |
| Daisy | #endmeeting | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 18 14:00:45 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2015/openstack_i18n_meeting.2015-06-18-13.01.html | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2015/openstack_i18n_meeting.2015-06-18-13.01.txt | 14:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2015/openstack_i18n_meeting.2015-06-18-13.01.log.html | 14:00 |
| fifieldt | perhaps move ongoing discussions to #openstack-translators for a little bit? | 14:00 |
| fifieldt | #openstack-translation | 14:01 |
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| fifieldt | sorry, | 14:01 |
| Fdot | +1 | 14:01 |
| fifieldt | wrong name :) | 14:01 |
| ujuc | +1 | 14:01 |
| ujuc | :) | 14:01 |
| ianychoi | +1 | 14:01 |
| fifieldt | Thanks for your work all, and sorry to kick you out ! | 14:01 |
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| fifieldt | and, welcome to ops tags team | 14:01 |
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| fifieldt | anyone here for that meeting | 14:01 |
| fifieldt | I see maishsk | 14:01 |
| fifieldt | maybe also lsell | 14:02 |
| maishsk | o/ | 14:02 |
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| lsell | yes, i'm here :) mostly to listen, but availalbe | 14:02 |
| ttx | o/ | 14:02 |
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| maishsk | fifieldt: startmeeting ? | 14:02 |
| jproulx | here, though slightly distected | 14:02 |
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| jproulx | s/distected/distracted/; | 14:03 |
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| fifieldt | according to the doodle poll we likely also have medberry, pipes, ricker, hellman, aedo, dorman, gonzalez-barahona | 14:03 |
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| fifieldt | but I think we have enough to commence | 14:03 |
| fifieldt | so, let's! | 14:03 |
| fifieldt | #startmeeting ops-tags | 14:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 18 14:03:32 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fifieldt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ops-tags)" | 14:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ops_tags' | 14:03 |
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| fifieldt | How is everyone? | 14:03 |
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| * maishsk is in sunny Jerusalem - how bad can it be? :) | 14:04 | |
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| fifieldt | perfect, perfect :) | 14:04 |
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| fifieldt | so, kicking off: | 14:04 |
| fifieldt | #topic announcements | 14:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: ops-tags)" | 14:04 | |
| fifieldt | Hello Ops Tags Team! It's great to see you again. | 14:04 |
| fifieldt | We've made some good progress since our last meeting. | 14:04 |
| fifieldt | In case you're fresh in, here are the highlights: | 14:04 |
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| fifieldt | #info We're now on the wiki at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Operations/Tags | 14:04 |
| ttx | fifieldt: is there an agenda somewhere ? | 14:04 |
| fifieldt | #info and have a repository at: https://github.com/stackforge/ops-tags-team | 14:04 |
| fifieldt | #info There are 4 patches under review: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:stackforge/ops-tags-team,n,z | 14:04 |
| fifieldt | #info We've agreed to use the ops ML with [tags] in the subject line to communicate | 14:05 |
| fifieldt | #info We've agreed to use IRC for our monthly meeting. You can see interesting IRC meeting commands here: http://meetbot.debian.net/Manual.html#user-reference | 14:05 |
| fifieldt | On meetings, it looks like we have a fairly full agenda today: | 14:05 |
| fifieldt | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ops-tags-June-2015 | 14:05 |
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| fifieldt | and I think there's a chance we may not get through all of it. We have a hard stop in an hour, when the Ceilometer team arrives, so if we don't, we might meet again within a couple of weeks. | 14:05 |
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| fifieldt | Though, let's keep discussion of mundane matters like meeting time toward the end, as they can in theory be done on the mailing list, too :) | 14:05 |
| fifieldt | Is everyone comfortable with those announcements and the agenda? | 14:06 |
| jaypipes | sure | 14:06 |
| jproulx | yup | 14:06 |
| fifieldt | Brilliant | 14:06 |
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| fifieldt | With that, on to our first content topic: | 14:06 |
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| fifieldt | #topic Binary -vs- StructuredData tags | 14:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Binary -vs- StructuredData tags (Meeting topic: ops-tags)" | 14:06 | |
| fifieldt | We have the ability to offer rich, easily maintainable data about projects - and our mission is indeed "allowing users to make better decisions by providing useful information about OpenStack software projects." | 14:07 |
| fifieldt | Based on prior discussions with the UC, our team-forming discussions at the summit, and best efforts subsequently, we've come up with some initial tags for review. These turned out to be a little different to what the Technical Committee (TC) is doing, but we do have scope for that, being an activity not under TC governance. Having said that, it is nice to see the level of interest from TC members, and particularly the open | 14:07 |
| fifieldt | minded approach the majority appear to take - genuinely curious to see what we can come up with :) | 14:07 |
| maishsk | the only thing is that the frequency of the IRC meeting cannot be monthly - so I have currently scheduled a meeting every two weeks. | 14:07 |
| jaypipes | a little different? :) | 14:07 |
| fifieldt | One valid point is that we do need to keep an eye on the complexity of the structure to ensure the ease of eventual display on the web (we don't want to have to update a website layout every time we update a tag), but this doesn't directly equate to a need for binary tags. | 14:07 |
| fifieldt | Initial impressions are that trying to fit something like ops:packaged or ops:production-use into a binary label removes useful information, or decreases maintainability if we want to try and retain all of the information. | 14:07 |
| maishsk | jaypipes: :) | 14:07 |
| fifieldt | So, personally, after working through our initial tags under review, I just don't see the value in us moving to a binary-based system. Therefore, I would be interested to hear from those that do what the value proposition is. Who would like to kick us off? | 14:07 |
| jaypipes | I can. | 14:07 |
| fifieldt | floor is yours :) | 14:07 |
| ttx | So... my take on that is that it's different type of data -- useful, but different from the tags framework. | 14:08 |
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| ttx | so I think we should use another name for it | 14:08 |
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| jaypipes | The value of a simple string tag is that a tag means one thing and one thing only. The defintion file of the tag lists the requirements for a project to be tagged with that string. | 14:08 |
| ttx | to avoid confusion between the two frameworks | 14:08 |
| fifieldt | and how does that apply to our mission, jaypipes? | 14:08 |
| jaypipes | ttx: agreed completely. I don't think structured data is not useful, it'sjust that it isn't tags. | 14:08 |
| ttx | I don't really mind the new name -- ops-data ops-feedback-on-project operational-info... just not "tag" | 14:09 |
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| ttx | because that dilutes the concept and makes things confusing | 14:09 |
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| fifieldt | ttx, this may be the case - and I'll take that up with the user committee, but I don't think naming is something that we can solve in this meeting today. I think it would take up a lot of time when we have other items on the agenda. | 14:09 |
| jaypipes | fifieldt: the mission is to provide *accurate*, *useful* information in a consumable way, to the audience of operators. | 14:09 |
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| fifieldt | and how is the current system not consumable? | 14:09 |
| lsell | so who would be consuming or looking at tags vs ops data? would they be two different types of people? | 14:09 |
| jaypipes | fifieldt: anything that inhibits the accuracy (via the impossibiliy of tracking some non-objective or constantly-changing data) is antithetical to that mission. | 14:10 |
| fifieldt | for example? | 14:10 |
| maishsk | ttx: were tags ever defined as being a single simple string? | 14:10 |
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| jaypipes | fifieldt: see my email about the ops:packaged "tags". | 14:10 |
| fifieldt | perhaps using one of the under review tags as ane xample | 14:10 |
| ttx | lsell: both could be made available. Or we could build tags on top of ops-data | 14:10 |
| fifieldt | jaypipes, for the benefit of those in the meeting, perhaps you could pull an example from that email | 14:11 |
| ttx | maishsk: a "tag" is a label. | 14:11 |
| ttx | not a dictionary. | 14:11 |
| jproulx | Do we expect humans to look directly at either type of data or do we expect to provide some query or search interface? I think the latter mostly | 14:11 |
| fifieldt | latter, for sure | 14:11 |
| maishsk | ttx: and a label can have many things on it. | 14:11 |
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| maishsk | jproulx: agree | 14:11 |
| lsell | i understand that both could be made available, but i'm trying to understand how we would explain the difference to people. we're trying to better communicate around the projects, and i don't want this to end up being more confusing | 14:11 |
| jaypipes | fifieldt: the information in the proposed schema would a) be inaccurate in short time windows, b) isn't determined by the people doing packaging (the packagers...), and introduces a value part of the tag that doesn't correspond to something that can be easily tracked in an objective way. | 14:11 |
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| fifieldt | jaypipes, I see you are talking about ops:packaged | 14:12 |
| jaypipes | yes. | 14:12 |
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| fifieldt | how would it be innacurate in short time windows? | 14:12 |
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| jproulx | qualitative judgements are required by operators (will this work not does this exisist) and the people making a thing (doc or packages) are diased | 14:12 |
| ttx | maishsk: sure, but then it hardly qualifies as a simple label. | 14:12 |
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| jaypipes | fifieldt: from my email: http://paste.openstack.org/show/301705/ | 14:13 |
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| jproulx | s/diased/biased/; | 14:13 |
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| fifieldt | jaypipes, you appear to misunderstand ops:packaged | 14:13 |
| fifieldt | I suggest you take a look at the review | 14:13 |
| ttx | I'm fine with the ops group providing structured operational information about projects -- it's just not fitting in the "tag" framework we defined, so we'd prefer if you used your own name for your framework | 14:13 |
| jaypipes | fifieldt: I've reviewed it three times already. | 14:13 |
| ttx | for the sake of avoiding confusion to the rest of our community | 14:13 |
| maishsk | ttx: trying to make this as simple as I can for myself, take a simple label I would put on my kids school books. | 14:13 |
| fifieldt | yet somehow you use " ops:packaged:centos:good" as an example :) | 14:14 |
| fifieldt | which isn't something that would occur | 14:14 |
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| maishsk | It would have - name: + Class: + phone_number: | 14:14 |
| maishsk | all three of those would be useful for me to find information about the owner of the book | 14:14 |
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| fifieldt | jaypipes, you appear to also misunderstand how ops tags deal with releases | 14:15 |
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| jaypipes | fifieldt: please enlighten me, Tom. | 14:15 |
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| fifieldt | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/186633/4/descriptions/ops-packaged.rst | 14:16 |
| jaypipes | I've read it. | 14:16 |
| fifieldt | perhaps have a read of the "tag updates and timing" section | 14:16 |
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| fifieldt | you may not have read that bit yet | 14:16 |
| fifieldt | since it's new this week | 14:16 |
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| jaypipes | I sis. | 14:16 |
| jaypipes | did. | 14:16 |
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| fifieldt | you also note something about "centos" in your paste | 14:16 |
| fifieldt | yet, that appears to be non-present in the tag? | 14:17 |
| fifieldt | having removed pkgtype | 14:17 |
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| jaypipes | fifieldt: so what does the tag tell the audience about its availability in say, CentOS? | 14:17 |
| fifieldt | it doesn't | 14:17 |
| jaypipes | then what use is it? | 14:17 |
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| fifieldt | to you, probably nothing :) | 14:18 |
| fifieldt | anyway | 14:18 |
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| fifieldt | to get back to the question at hand | 14:18 |
| fifieldt | what is the value proposition for binary tags? | 14:18 |
| fifieldt | so far I haven't seen that answered | 14:18 |
| jaypipes | fifieldt: seriously, man, I'm asking a legitimate question. | 14:18 |
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| maishsk | jaypipes: I think it will depend on how that information is mined and presented | 14:19 |
| fifieldt | jaypipes, see rationale in the tag :) | 14:19 |
| jaypipes | this is backwards. | 14:19 |
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| fifieldt | not at all | 14:19 |
| jproulx | for me it is part of 'breadth of support' | 14:19 |
| maishsk | jaypipes: mind explaining why? | 14:19 |
| jproulx | If I want to know if it's packaged for me then I'd 'apt-cache search' | 14:19 |
| jaypipes | maishsk: because ops don't use "packages". they use packages of a particular OS distribution. | 14:19 |
| fifieldt | and when we do - as jproulx notes - we run apt-cache search | 14:20 |
| ttx | fifieldt: binary tags are simpler to display, browse, compare. On the TC side, we don't need to provide more structured data. | 14:20 |
| fifieldt | we don't need somewhere else to be the exhaustive list of every single package in every distro version | 14:20 |
| jaypipes | if the tag doesn't indicate something for their particular distribution of choice, they won't get any use from the tag. | 14:20 |
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| fifieldt | what is useful is the general assessment | 14:20 |
| ttx | fifieldt: Note, I'm not asking that you use binary tags | 14:20 |
| jproulx | but if only my disto and version is packaging it then support is thin in some ways | 14:20 |
| fifieldt | appreciated, ttx :) | 14:20 |
| jaypipes | fifieldt: that is less than uyseful. that's my point. | 14:20 |
| ttx | just that we avoid calling them with the same name :) | 14:20 |
| fifieldt | not at all | 14:20 |
| fifieldt | if 2/3 distros are doing a crap job with packaging, that's good to know | 14:21 |
| fifieldt | since even if the package exists in the repo | 14:21 |
| jaypipes | jproulx: if I deploy CEntos, I don't give a hoot about Ubuntu packages being available or "good". | 14:21 |
| fifieldt | I can find out that gee, maybe there's some larger issue here | 14:21 |
| jaypipes | fifieldt: it is not good to know. it's irrelevant to the person not using those distos. | 14:21 |
| fifieldt | but you do care about major bugs in centos, jaypipes | 14:21 |
| fifieldt | and this tag has that | 14:21 |
| fifieldt | it absolutely is good to know jaypipes | 14:22 |
| jaypipes | fifieldt: in what way does this tag tell me (not the tag information, but the *tag itself*) anything about the state of CentOS packaging for Nova in Kilo? | 14:22 |
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| fifieldt | "overall"-level crap packaging tends to be related, so a general assessment is fine for this. For specific-badness - this tag does provide that in terms of the caveats | 14:23 |
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| fifieldt | we get good results with minimal effort in terms of maintenance | 14:23 |
| jproulx | jaypipes I deploy Ubuntu but I do care if packages are available for RHEL or Centos or Debian, it in formsme how locked in I am to that distro and if there are other distros that may better fit my needs which are two important pieces of information | 14:23 |
| maishsk | Mind if I raise a strange question - do we have operators have any specific reason to call these ‘tags’ | 14:23 |
| jaypipes | fifieldt: I don't want to go read the caveats for every tag in every project in opeNStack. If I did, I'd just read the release notes. | 14:23 |
| maishsk | and not something else? | 14:24 |
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| fifieldt | jaypipes, this gets into display :) | 14:24 |
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| jaypipes | jproulx: sorry, but I've never ever met an operator that cared about the state of packaging other than their particular preference. | 14:24 |
| jbryce | jproulx: that matches up to what i’ve seen where quite a few operators switch distros at least once in their openstack journey | 14:24 |
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| maishsk | would it matter if they were called ops-tags instead of tags - I mean seriously - what is the difference? | 14:24 |
| fifieldt | +1 | 14:24 |
| jproulx | perhaps my world is atypically complex, can't answer that but it's my case | 14:24 |
| jaypipes | jbryce: name one. | 14:25 |
| jbryce | jpl | 14:25 |
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| jbryce | wells fargo | 14:25 |
| jbryce | b of a | 14:25 |
| jbryce | disney | 14:25 |
| fifieldt | NCI | 14:25 |
| jbryce | almost every user we’ve put up for a keynote | 14:25 |
| jbryce | bmw | 14:25 |
| jaypipes | changed from RPM to DEB? | 14:25 |
| fifieldt | MediaTek | 14:25 |
| jaypipes | or DEB to RPM? | 14:25 |
| lsell | maishk: i don't think the naming is honestly that important, i think what's important is if the data produced by tc and uc will be displayed together, basically two groups contributing information to a single program, or if they will just be separate programs | 14:25 |
| fifieldt | I've seen both jaypipes | 14:25 |
| ttx | maishsk: good question, thx | 14:25 |
| lsell | and where each would live, and how we would explain why you would look at one or the other | 14:25 |
| jbryce | changed from ubuntu to red hat to mirantis to metacloud or various other directions | 14:26 |
| jaypipes | never seen it and never seen it asked for (and 80% of the companies you linked above are Mirantis customers.) | 14:26 |
| maishsk | lsell - do you think they are a single program at the moment (I am finding it difficult to see it that way) | 14:26 |
| ttx | maishsk: :) | 14:26 |
| jaypipes | in any case, having binary tag information would inform this magical user that likes to change distros. | 14:26 |
| lsell | that was my original understanding, we would have a tags program and have different groups in the community contribute information based on their expertise/experience | 14:26 |
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| lsell | but it's sounding more and more like two separate programs, which is disappointing | 14:27 |
| jbryce | jaypipes: it seems you’re either calling us all liars or being really stubborn.... | 14:27 |
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| ttx | lsell: there are only 3 solutions | 14:27 |
| maishsk | lsell: so if that was the case - then the tags should be accomodating to all - not just one program. | 14:27 |
| jaypipes | jbryce: it seems the ops tags team is being really stubborn to me, not wanting to follow the TC's lead and definitino of a tag just in order to be different. | 14:27 |
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| fifieldt | not at all jaypipes | 14:27 |
| fifieldt | we basically came up with this from first principl;es | 14:27 |
| fifieldt | and genuinely think it's a good solution | 14:28 |
| jaypipes | just call it "not tags" then. | 14:28 |
| ttx | lsell: the trick is the ops usage of the tag framework is substantially different fom the TC one. So one has to converge with the other, or the two must co-exist separately | 14:28 |
| maishsk | jaypipes: unfortunately the UC does not fall under the TC - that is something that I think should be clear | 14:28 |
| jbryce | this has been the idea that i’ve heard at the ops meetups since paris. at that point, some on the TC were still arguing to not have any kind of tagging at all | 14:28 |
| jaypipes | maishsk: this isnt' the UC. | 14:28 |
| lsell | ttx: yes, i completely understand / agree | 14:28 |
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| jaypipes | jbryce: http://www.joinfu.com/2014/09/so-what-is-the-core-of-openstack/ <--- LONG before Paris. | 14:29 |
| jproulx | they way then | 14:29 |
| maishsk | jaypipes: the Ops-tags is a UC initiative (AFAIK) | 14:29 |
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| jaypipes | maishsk: since when? | 14:29 |
| fifieldt | from beginning | 14:29 |
| fifieldt | this is why there is a bit more freedom to investigate the best solution | 14:30 |
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| maishsk | fifieldt: +1 | 14:30 |
| jproulx | the way they would need to coexist is is at the presentation layer, at that level different structures would be a technical issue, | 14:30 |
| ttx | both groups are pretty happy with what they came up with apparently, but that's different types of info | 14:30 |
| jaypipes | OK, I'll just drop out of the ops tags team then and focus on tagging in the openstack/governance repo. | 14:30 |
| jaypipes | Feel free to remove me. | 14:30 |
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| fifieldt | jaypipes, you have had some good insights :) | 14:30 |
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| fifieldt | dropping pkgtype was inspired by you! | 14:31 |
| fifieldt | it was a timely reminder about simplicity | 14:31 |
| fifieldt | we're not ignoring you at all - just seeking the best solution | 14:31 |
| fifieldt | which is why my question is about why binary things are the best solution | 14:31 |
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| fifieldt | so far we've talked at length | 14:32 |
| ttx | fifieldt: write-once website to display them, whatever tag we come up with in the future ? | 14:32 |
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| fifieldt | I have some ideas here ttx | 14:32 |
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| fifieldt | hoping to get someone with a design brain to run through them soon :) | 14:32 |
| ttx | I know, but they involve custom code for every ops-data type of info | 14:32 |
| jaypipes | because they are the solution that the TC has adopted and unless there's a compelling reason not to follow the lead, you should. I've expressed a number of failures that are possible with the structured data strategy. I don't think I've been unclear about it. | 14:32 |
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| jaypipes | either that, or don't call them tags. | 14:33 |
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| fifieldt | I believe we did follow quite a bit of the TCs lead | 14:33 |
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| ttx | Also I think tags convey more actionable pieces of info. | 14:33 |
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| ttx | i.e. we define what a diverse affiliation of contributors is. | 14:34 |
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| ttx | you have projects with it and projects without it. | 14:34 |
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| jaypipes | exactly. | 14:34 |
| maishsk | fifieldt: agreed. repo in stackforge, irc meeting, etc.. | 14:34 |
| fifieldt | I don't think I can see any remaining failures as noted by jaypipes that I'm uncomfortable with - can anyone else? | 14:34 |
| jproulx | ttx that's the first actual reason for bianry tagging I've heard that wasn't just definitional | 14:34 |
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| ttx | if we just try to ddescribe diversity in a YAML dictionary, we let the exercise to the reader | 14:35 |
| ttx | to determine if we consider this is diverse or not enough diverse | 14:35 |
| ttx | tags are opinionated basically | 14:35 |
| jaypipes | jproulx: http://www.mail-archive.com/openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org/msg55338.html listed 4 of them. | 14:35 |
| ttx | ops-data is documentation, not opinionated | 14:35 |
| jproulx | I don't think conveying actionable items is the primary goal of ops-tags, but it is a usefull side effect | 14:35 |
| fifieldt | a comparison to diversity tag is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/189168/ | 14:35 |
| fifieldt | which uses a percentage rather than the declaration of in or out | 14:36 |
| ttx | jproulx: I'm totally fine with structured documentation about projects. I just think it's a different g oal that tags are after | 14:36 |
| fifieldt | as ttx says - leaving the excercise to the reader | 14:36 |
| jaypipes | fifieldt: and that percentage will be IMMEDIATELY invalid/inaccurate. | 14:36 |
| ttx | I'm also fine defining tags on top of ops-data | 14:36 |
| ttx | I just want us to acknowledge those are different things | 14:36 |
| ttx | both valuable | 14:37 |
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| fifieldt | jaypipes, I think it remains valuable information | 14:37 |
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| fifieldt | certainly, we've had some good feedback about providing this information in the user survey | 14:37 |
| ttx | I'm not as strongly convinced as Jay that ops-data approach is bad. I think you should definitely try | 14:37 |
| jproulx | I'm not opposed to deriving binary tags from ops-data, I'm just unconvinced the extra layer is really needed | 14:37 |
| fifieldt | despite its, as you say, inaccuracy :) | 14:37 |
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| jproulx | my concern with trying binary first is that simplifying from strutured to binary seem much simpler than going the other way should our initial choice be wrong. | 14:38 |
| ttx | jproulx: it's fine if you don't define tags on top of ops-data. I plan to use ops-data in some of our tags definition for sure | 14:38 |
| maishsk | and as always - (as we all should be agile) get something working - and improve / re-iterate | 14:38 |
| ttx | maishsk: ++ | 14:38 |
| maishsk | so if it does not work out - it cshould / can be changed | 14:38 |
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| ttx | jproulx: I don't think you need to do tag first. I agree that raw data is a prerequisute | 14:39 |
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| fifieldt | indeed maishsk | 14:39 |
| fifieldt | these are our very beginnings | 14:39 |
| fifieldt | and I think we should have a go | 14:39 |
| fifieldt | and see what we can do :) | 14:39 |
| lsell | ultimately, i'd love to see the tc and uc cooperate on this. i think we just need to put some cycles into how the display would work to see if the ops vision is viable...or if the binary approach is ultimately better, and then we can further discuss implementation and naming | 14:39 |
| maishsk | fifieldt: +1 | 14:39 |
| ttx | But then I don't want to spend the whole meeting discussing naming. I just want you to consider those are different pieces of data wiuth different goals, and therefore would suggest you pick a different name to describe yours | 14:40 |
| fifieldt | lsell +1 | 14:40 |
| maishsk | lsell: that sounds like a plan | 14:40 |
| ttx | for the sake of avoiding confusion to our users | 14:40 |
| fifieldt | I think a lot of it will fall out in the wash when we start talking about display | 14:40 |
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| jproulx | fifieldt: +1 | 14:40 |
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| fifieldt | random question - with the JSON stuff, I kinda feel like it's editing a config file, and therefore quite comfortable for me from an ops background - did anyone else feel that? | 14:40 |
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| maishsk | fifieldt: json is fine | 14:41 |
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| maishsk | ttx: I am fine with a different name - the only thing is it is not one voice - but I am not sure it has to be | 14:41 |
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| ttx | fifieldt: <maishsk> Mind if I raise a strange question - do we have operators have any specific reason to call these ‘tags’ | 14:41 |
| jaypipes | fifieldt: can you guys at least consume the openstack/governance projects listing so you don't have typos and inconsistencies in the project names? | 14:42 |
| maishsk | jaypipes: For sure - I will take that one up personally. | 14:42 |
| jaypipes | ty | 14:42 |
| ttx | the reason the TC ones are called "tags" fits with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tag_%28metadata%29 | 14:43 |
| ttx | i.e. keywords | 14:43 |
| ttx | which is essentially a binary field: there or not there | 14:44 |
| * maishsk has just been volunteered as the typo/inconsistency Czar | 14:44 | |
| fifieldt | :D | 14:44 |
| fifieldt | indeed, ttx though I think a naming discussion should probably be moved to another forum | 14:44 |
| ttx | I think what you are building is operational data about projects | 14:44 |
| fifieldt | we still have several agenda items on the go | 14:44 |
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| ttx | ack, will shut up now. Just somethign to keep in mind | 14:44 |
| * fifieldt hears you! | 14:44 | |
| jproulx | ttx: I agree that's the goal | 14:45 |
| fifieldt | last chance for binary vs structured data? | 14:45 |
| ttx | fifieldt: I think you need structured data before you can build binary tags. | 14:45 |
| fifieldt | ... going once ... | 14:45 |
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| fifieldt | indeed - we need to get some stuff in the repo :D | 14:45 |
| fifieldt | which is in fact our next topic! | 14:45 |
| fifieldt | so, let's move to: | 14:45 |
| ttx | how convenient | 14:45 |
| fifieldt | #topic Discussion of tags underway: ops:packaged tag, ops:docs:install-guide, ops:production-use | 14:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion of tags underway: ops:packaged tag, ops:docs:install-guide, ops:production-use (Meeting topic: ops-tags)" | 14:45 | |
| fifieldt | How are we feeling? Anyone want to start with a particular tag? | 14:46 |
| maishsk | packaged is a ‘potential’ hot potato | 14:46 |
| fifieldt | so, perhaps we should start then with an easy one: | 14:46 |
| fifieldt | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/189168/ | 14:46 |
| fifieldt | ops:production-use | 14:47 |
| maishsk | ops:docs:install-guide - should be a ‘potential’ slam dunk | 14:47 |
| fifieldt | oh, damn | 14:47 |
| maishsk | ;) | 14:47 |
| fifieldt | we clashed :) | 14:47 |
| fifieldt | well, maishsk you've been doing all the work so far | 14:47 |
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| fifieldt | so maybe let's go with yours | 14:47 |
| fifieldt | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/186638 | 14:47 |
| fifieldt | Add ops:docs:install-guide tag | 14:47 |
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| fifieldt | this was supposed to be our easy one :) | 14:47 |
| fifieldt | so, is it good to merge? :) | 14:47 |
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| fifieldt | there was a new section around when this would likely be updated | 14:49 |
| fifieldt | any problems there? | 14:49 |
| maishsk | fifieldt: will give it a last look-see and +1 if ok | 14:49 |
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| fifieldt | ok, cheers | 14:49 |
| fifieldt | any other comments on docs:install-guide? | 14:49 |
| jproulx | I've not followed through all the comments are there any outstanding objections likely? | 14:49 |
| fifieldt | nope | 14:49 |
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| fifieldt | your review would be helpful :) | 14:49 |
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| jproulx | after meeting I'll review & likely +2 | 14:49 |
| fifieldt | ok, it seems people haven't had a chance to see that one yet | 14:50 |
| jproulx | based on quick look now | 14:50 |
| fifieldt | let's move to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/189168/ ops:production-use | 14:50 |
| fifieldt | basically the outstanding question here was the actual data format | 14:50 |
| fifieldt | whether it;'s a percentage, a ranged number or something else | 14:50 |
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| fifieldt | personally, I think it would be very nice when we display a set of tags | 14:50 |
| fifieldt | to have a continuous number | 14:50 |
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| fifieldt | that we can use to sort things | 14:50 |
| ttx | fifieldt: I'll start a openstack-operators thread on the naming to avoid further polluting the meeting. | 14:51 |
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| fifieldt | I also think it's just going to be easier to directly use the user survey data | 14:51 |
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| jproulx | given variablility in the number of total responses I'd think percentage would eb best | 14:51 |
| fifieldt | rather than having to look at one number and write another :) | 14:51 |
| fifieldt | I know maishsk had some thoughts on this - did we managed to convince you? ;) | 14:51 |
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| maishsk | for me it makes no difference - I am just trying to think with my operator hat on | 14:52 |
| fifieldt | ok :D | 14:52 |
| maishsk | do I care if it 49% or 50% - is that useful to me | 14:52 |
| fifieldt | right | 14:53 |
| maishsk | or a range will tell me more? | 14:53 |
| maishsk | not convinced either way | 14:53 |
| fifieldt | but if there's numbers 90, 89, 75, 20, 8, 6 | 14:53 |
| fifieldt | is "90" somehow better than "89"? | 14:53 |
| fifieldt | by being in an 90-100 category | 14:53 |
| fifieldt | are 20 / 8 / 6 all "bad" | 14:54 |
| fifieldt | or is perhaps 20 a lot better than 6 | 14:54 |
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| fifieldt | I think I sound insane :) | 14:54 |
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| fifieldt | anyway, we don't have a lot of time | 14:54 |
| fifieldt | perhaps comment on the review | 14:54 |
| maishsk | will do | 14:54 |
| fifieldt | and let's get on to ops:packaged | 14:54 |
| fifieldt | I made a fairly significant update to this earlier in the week | 14:55 |
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| fifieldt | removing pkgtype | 14:55 |
| jaypipes | fifieldt: it's still in the JSON file... FYI. | 14:55 |
| fifieldt | thanks jaypipes! | 14:55 |
| fifieldt | basically, when I originally added pkgtype, I was thinking it was more like an internal note to those of us updating the tag | 14:55 |
| fifieldt | rather than something for display | 14:55 |
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| fifieldt | but under discussion it morphed into a behemoth | 14:56 |
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| fifieldt | basically, I don't think we've got enough peeps to get into the game of doing each distro (+ potentially distro version) for each package | 14:56 |
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| fifieldt | and as jproulx noted earlier | 14:56 |
| fifieldt | for "availabilty" you can just jump in on the package manager | 14:57 |
| fifieldt | and find it out | 14:57 |
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| fifieldt | but we do still have some good distro specific stuff in the caveats | 14:57 |
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| fifieldt | which is much more maintainable | 14:57 |
| fifieldt | basically just a few links to check | 14:58 |
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| fifieldt | what I would love to see in the future is to turn some of those post-release mailing list posts about massive packaging fail into tag updates | 14:58 |
| fifieldt | so this leads to display also - making it easy for people to contribute to the tag | 14:58 |
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| fifieldt | anyway, I ramble | 14:58 |
| fifieldt | thoughts, aznyone? | 14:58 |
| fifieldt | (2 mins to go) | 14:58 |
| jproulx | sounds largely good but perhaps not decidable in 2min | 14:59 |
| fifieldt | oh, for sure | 14:59 |
| maishsk | jproulx: +1 | 14:59 |
| fifieldt | ok, with a minute to go | 14:59 |
| fifieldt | we probably need to wrap up, since ceilometer will be here soon | 14:59 |
| jproulx | probably time to call it and roll teh rest of the agenda to next meeting? | 14:59 |
| fifieldt | I think we have a lot of work ahead of us | 15:00 |
| fifieldt | so why don't we meeet again in two weeks? | 15:00 |
| ttx | fifieldt: have to run | 15:00 |
| fifieldt | thanks ttx~! | 15:00 |
| jproulx | fifieldt +1 | 15:00 |
| maishsk | fifieldt: sure! | 15:00 |
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| maishsk | Thank you! | 15:00 |
| fifieldt | maishsk has made the calendar thing already | 15:00 |
| fifieldt | so see you on the ML | 15:00 |
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| fifieldt | #info check gerrit for tag reviews | 15:00 |
| * maishsk runs for his ride home | 15:00 | |
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| fifieldt | Thank you all for participating | 15:00 |
| fifieldt | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 18 15:00:59 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ops_tags/2015/ops_tags.2015-06-18-14.03.html | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ops_tags/2015/ops_tags.2015-06-18-14.03.txt | 15:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ops_tags/2015/ops_tags.2015-06-18-14.03.log.html | 15:01 |
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| cdent | #startmeeting ceilometer | 15:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 18 15:05:06 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is cdent. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 15:05 |
| fabiog | hello | 15:05 |
| cdent | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Ceilometer#Agenda | 15:05 |
| ityaptin | hi! | 15:05 |
| jasonamyers | o/ | 15:05 |
| llu-laptop | o/ | 15:05 |
| _nadya_ | hi | 15:05 |
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| prad | o/ | 15:05 |
| eglynn | o/ | 15:05 |
| cdent | #topic midcycle | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "midcycle (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:06 | |
| eglynn | (belatedly) | 15:06 |
| cdent | these times and dates have been mooted: Cisco Dublin Office July 20th-22nd | 15:06 |
| ildikov_ | o/ | 15:06 |
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| cdent | jd__, sileht you guys present and accounted for? | 15:06 |
| ildikov_ | do we have a target number to decide whether we will have the mid-cycle or not? | 15:07 |
| idegtiarov | o/ | 15:07 |
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| cdent | ildikov_: I was going to ask the same question. eglynn did you have some thoughts on the bare min number? | 15:07 |
| ildikov_ | etherpad with topic proposals: link# https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ceilometer-liberty-midcycle | 15:07 |
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| eglynn | idegtiarov: yep, we need to avoid a last-minute cancelation this time 'round | 15:07 |
| jasonamyers | Yes | 15:08 |
| fabiog | cdent: last year we failed because we had less than 5 | 15:08 |
| jasonamyers | I really want to avoid that as well | 15:08 |
| eglynn | cdent: not so much a raw number, but also the key contributors for the topics being discussed | 15:08 |
| cdent | the etherpad is currently showing 8, but I think that's 8 maybes | 15:08 |
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| ildikov_ | eglute: yeap, I kinda hope I can use my plane ticket now... :) | 15:08 |
| eglynn | cdent: but yeah, last time we said absolute min of 5 | 15:08 |
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| cdent | the next topic on the agenda is about topic for that meeting, perhaps narrowing that topic list will help determine if we have the "key" folk? | 15:09 |
| cdent | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ceilometer-liberty-midcycle | 15:09 |
| eglynn | cdent: fair point | 15:09 |
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| eglute | ildikov_ i assume you didn't mean me in that comment :) | 15:10 |
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| jasonamyers | I picked those dates because we had the most people say yes to the pool then | 15:10 |
| cdent | Of those the two that are probably most important are the consequences and management of repo splitting and tieing a bow on gnocchi | 15:10 |
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| eglynn | jasonamyers: I think the range on the doodle was perhaps a tad on the late side | 15:11 |
| eglynn | the date-range I mean | 15:11 |
| jasonamyers | There is not way I can host prior to that | 15:11 |
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| jasonamyers | S/not/no | 15:11 |
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| ildikov_ | eglute: sorry, auto completion... :S | 15:12 |
| _nadya_ | I'm still trying to find a participator from our team | 15:12 |
| eglynn | jasonamyers: I meant that end of first week in August in only a week before traditional feature proposal freeze, 3 weeks before feature freeze for liberty | 15:12 |
| jasonamyers | Nod | 15:13 |
| eglynn | ... so would probably end up being more of a precursor for discussions at the M* summit, as opposed to a midcycle that would impact on decisions for liberty | 15:13 |
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| jasonamyers | Yeah that's not terribly useful | 15:13 |
| ildikov_ | eglynn: the currently possible date will allow us to sort out some things that are important and not in a good enough shape by that time | 15:14 |
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| jasonamyers | Should we scrap this one and I can work on the next mid cycle earlier in Dublin? | 15:14 |
| ildikov_ | eglynn: I mean more hacking than talking can be an option too | 15:14 |
| jasonamyers | Or can someone else host earlier? | 15:14 |
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| prad | eglynn, cdent, could rtp be an option? we can check if redhat Annex is available | 15:15 |
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| cdent | prad not on this short notice, too pricey | 15:15 |
| eglynn | ildikov_: yep, understood ... I'm not trying to dictate here at all, just throwing in some ideas | 15:15 |
| jasonamyers | I offered that originally prad | 15:15 |
| prad | if we're set in Dublin then fine | 15:15 |
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| prad | jasonamyers, yea we have multiple places to host in RTP.. but i guess that wont work for people on Europe | 15:16 |
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| ildikov_ | eglynn: sure, I'm just not so sure that with all the prep needed we can bring it much earlier | 15:16 |
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| jasonamyers | I'd rather the face to face be useful than us just coding in a cola red fashion | 15:16 |
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| jasonamyers | Colocated | 15:17 |
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| prad | for some reason "cola red fasion" made sense :) | 15:17 |
| cdent | So let's just do a quick survey: | 15:17 |
| jasonamyers | Haha | 15:17 |
| ildikov_ | jasonamyers: +1 | 15:17 |
| cdent | #startvote Skip the mid-cycle this time? Yes, No | 15:17 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Skip the mid-cycle this time? Valid vote options are Yes, No. | 15:17 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 15:17 |
| eglynn | jasonamyers: /me had a vision of coding powered by Red Bull for some reason :) | 15:18 |
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| cdent | (this is non binding, I just want to get a feel) | 15:18 |
| cdent | #vote yes | 15:18 |
| ildikov_ | #vote no | 15:18 |
| cdent | #showvote | 15:18 |
| openstack | Yes (1): cdent | 15:18 |
| openstack | No (1): ildikov_ | 15:18 |
| jasonamyers | #vote yes | 15:18 |
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| jasonamyers | But let's schedule the M mid cycle away | 15:18 |
| jasonamyers | ASAP | 15:19 |
| eglynn | #vote yes | 15:19 |
| prad | #vote yes | 15:19 |
| prad | yes conditionally | 15:19 |
| prad | +1 jasonamyers | 15:19 |
| cdent | jasonamyers++ because I think mid cycles can be more important than summits | 15:19 |
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| cdent | (if done at the right time :) ) | 15:19 |
| prad | yep | 15:19 |
| eglynn | jasonamyers: ... and also yes to M* midcycle in Dublin :) | 15:19 |
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| jasonamyers | When is a good time after summit? | 15:19 |
| prad | i think we're planning a bit late this time | 15:20 |
| cdent | jd__ and sileht are not here, so that's a bit unfortunate | 15:20 |
| jasonamyers | I will start on it right now | 15:20 |
| ildikov_ | eglynn: big +1 :) | 15:20 |
| jasonamyers | If Dublin is still desired | 15:20 |
| cdent | _nadya_: we started a vote on skipping the mid-cycle, just to get a staw poll, you have a vote? | 15:20 |
| eglynn | jasonamyers: our one midcycle so far was first week in July of Juno cycle | 15:20 |
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| prad | that makes more sense | 15:20 |
| eglynn | (approx 1-2 weeks after milestone-1) | 15:20 |
| prad | egallen, early on is better | 15:20 |
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| ildikov_ | the M* one is tricky because of Xmas | 15:20 |
| prad | eglynn, ^^ | 15:21 |
| prad | darn auto complete | 15:21 |
| eglynn | ildikov_: a-ha, yes | 15:21 |
| eglynn | ildikov_: good point | 15:21 |
| _nadya_ | cdent: I'm not sure about our participation :( sorry for that | 15:21 |
| cdent | #showvote | 15:21 |
| openstack | Yes (4): cdent, eglynn, prad, jasonamyers | 15:21 |
| openstack | No (1): ildikov_ | 15:21 |
| cdent | anybody else want to vote? | 15:21 |
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| cdent | #endvote | 15:22 |
| openstack | Voted on "Skip the mid-cycle this time?" Results are | 15:22 |
| openstack | Yes (4): cdent, eglynn, prad, jasonamyers | 15:22 |
| openstack | No (1): ildikov_ | 15:22 |
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| cdent | In that case that means that the topics on the etherpad still need to be addressed but in email/etc, yeah? | 15:22 |
| jasonamyers | So what if we met dec 14-18 time? | 15:22 |
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| jasonamyers | Cdent yeah | 15:22 |
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| ildikov_ | cdent: guess so | 15:22 |
| prad | curious, what if we have a virtual meetup for a day or so this time .. to discuss pressing topics | 15:23 |
| prad | may be over webex or something | 15:23 |
| prad | if we decide no on in person meetup | 15:23 |
| cdent | prad that seems like a reasonable idea, sort of chat over the top of | 15:23 |
| cdent | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ceilometer-liberty-midcycle | 15:23 |
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| _nadya_ | prad: I like it | 15:23 |
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| eglynn | cdent: or a g+ hangout | 15:24 |
| eglynn | prad: ^^^ | 15:24 |
| eglynn | ... would need to standardize on a TZ | 15:24 |
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| prad | yep or g chat | 15:24 |
| eglynn | mid-atlantic TZ? :) | 15:24 |
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| eglynn | UTC-2.5hrs | 15:24 |
| llu-laptop | looks like I need to buy some VPNs | 15:24 |
| ildikov_ | jasonamyers: that can work, although would worth a vote or smth like | 15:24 |
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| ildikov_ | jasonamyers: the question is that when is the last time to decide about it to be in time | 15:25 |
| llu-laptop | g+ hangout is blocked by China, the same thing happends to review.openstack.org | 15:25 |
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| jasonamyers | November 1st from my side | 15:26 |
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| cdent | #agreed Have a virtual mid-cycle, when TDB | 15:26 |
| eglynn | llu-laptop: a-ha, really ... gordc feels your pain now :) | 15:26 |
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| llu-laptop | he's in China? | 15:26 |
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| ildikov_ | jasonamyers: so by the end of the next Summit the latest | 15:26 |
| prad | eglynn, could we do bluejeans for external use? | 15:26 |
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| eglynn | prad: sure | 15:27 |
| prad | cool, thats an option then | 15:27 |
| jasonamyers | ildikov_: yes | 15:27 |
| eglynn | prad: (it's not hidden behind the firewall, we often do external meetings with it) | 15:27 |
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| eglynn | prad: good idea actually | 15:27 |
| prad | cool | 15:27 |
| ildikov_ | jasonamyers: ok, let's keep it in mind | 15:27 |
| cdent | #action prad and jasonamyers figure out the virtual mid-cycle | 15:28 |
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| prad | haha | 15:28 |
| jasonamyers | Haha | 15:28 |
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| cdent | that's what you get for opening your mouths :) | 15:28 |
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| jasonamyers | I only have webex to offer and it sucks on Linux | 15:28 |
| prad | yea i'll look into bluejeans | 15:29 |
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| cdent | webrtc, we'll skip this entire cycle's work and right a simple webrtc tool | 15:29 |
| cdent | shall we move on to the next topic? | 15:29 |
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| prad | date for virtual meetup? another doodle? | 15:29 |
| _nadya_ | jasonamyers: but it's possible :) after half-day tryings | 15:29 |
| cdent | prad, seems right | 15:30 |
| jasonamyers | I'm gonna doodle the Dublin dec on too because ... Ireland in the winter!!! | 15:30 |
| prad | ok I'll try to set one up .. /me never done before | 15:30 |
| cdent | right next topic | 15:31 |
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| prad | jasonamyers, can you set up a doodle for virtual meetup too then? | 15:31 |
| cdent | #topic ceilometer splits, delete or deprecate | 15:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ceilometer splits, delete or deprecate (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:31 | |
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| jasonamyers | Haha okay | 15:31 |
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| cdent | this is on the aforementioned etherpad for the midcycle but as work has already started we probably need to resolve it: | 15:31 |
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| cdent | When we split code out of the ceilo repo to its own repo have we reached a consensus on whether we are going to keep the code around in the old repo as deprecated for a while or delete it? | 15:32 |
| cdent | I seem to recall we had different opinions on this at summit and incomplete resolution? | 15:32 |
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| fabiog | cdent: if we keep it we need to make sure that nobody is pushing patches toward the deprecated code | 15:33 |
| llu-laptop | is it possible to follow the oslo.xxx oslo_xxx convertion? | 15:33 |
| cdent | ildikov_: I seem to recall you had some thoughts on this at summit, but don't remember? | 15:33 |
| fabiog | cdent: the last thing we want is legacy code diverge from the new one | 15:33 |
| cdent | yes, definitely fabiog | 15:33 |
| fabiog | cdent: for this reason I am in the opinion of deleting it ... | 15:34 |
| cdent | If we deprecate then we run some risk of people never using the new stuff. | 15:34 |
| ildikov_ | cdent: haha, I'm the one who likes the word deprecation the most :) | 15:34 |
| ildikov_ | cdent: but that's from usability PoV | 15:34 |
| prad | :) | 15:34 |
| _nadya_ | cdent: maybe deprecation for 1-2 cycles then deletion | 15:35 |
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| cdent | If we delete we have issues with packaging for the distros that will need to be considered. We can't just let that be. | 15:35 |
| llu-laptop | cdent: agreed | 15:35 |
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| prad | i vote for deprecation, better way to transition and distros can catch up mean while | 15:35 |
| ildikov_ | so the question here is that what will be broken from the backward compat buzzword point if view | 15:35 |
| cdent | I wonder if deprecation means quite the same thing in this context. We aren't changing functionality, just putting it somewhere else. | 15:35 |
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| cdent | Yes ildikov_ . It's not immediately clear. | 15:36 |
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| cdent | I put this on the agenda not because I figured we would solve it today but rather because we're going to nee d to resolve it | 15:36 |
| ildikov_ | cdent: if it's not clear then I would vote on deprecation and figure it out in that two cycles | 15:36 |
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| cdent | If we have the virtual midcycle sooner than later it will probably be a very useful topic there. | 15:37 |
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| ildikov_ | cdent: +1 | 15:37 |
| cdent | So basically, people will think about it. Hard. | 15:37 |
| ildikov_ | also we need to check the blueprints to target the right repo | 15:37 |
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| cdent | #action people will think about delete or deprecate in advance of virutal mid-cycle and come with an opinion | 15:38 |
| llu-laptop | does the split means different gerrit/launchpad project? | 15:38 |
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| cdent | llu-laptop: that has been the case with gnocchi, ceilometermiddleware, and ceilometerclient | 15:39 |
| cdent | so seems like a pattern | 15:39 |
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| cdent | moving on, to keep to time | 15:39 |
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| cdent | # topic ceilometerclient | 15:39 |
| cdent | whoops | 15:39 |
| cdent | #topic ceilometerclient | 15:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ceilometerclient (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:40 | |
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| cdent | anything on this? pretty quite there isn't it? | 15:40 |
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| prad | none afaik | 15:40 |
| cdent | once | 15:40 |
| cdent | twice | 15:40 |
| cdent | boom | 15:40 |
| cdent | #topic gnocchi | 15:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "gnocchi (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:40 | |
| cdent | gnocchi (and ceilo) were wedged in the gate because of keystonemiddleware interacting poorly with FakeMemcache | 15:41 |
| cdent | I fixed it | 15:41 |
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| cdent | gnocchi needs to get its boots walking with regard to "production ready" (c.f. mailing list) but other than that, things are tickingover | 15:41 |
| cdent | anyone else? | 15:41 |
| _nadya_ | one question | 15:42 |
| prad | metricd is merged looks like .. we have updated the packaging for rdo, so delorean picks this up for rdo ci | 15:42 |
| cdent | prad++ | 15:42 |
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| cdent | prad: have you seen the multiple workers patch? I think it might need a kick to merge as cores are on walkabout | 15:42 |
| cdent | _nadya_? | 15:42 |
| _nadya_ | we are working on schema for influxDB 0.9 driver . does it make sense? | 15:43 |
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| prad | cdent, i'll take a look | 15:43 |
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| _nadya_ | cdent: I mean should we create some spec or somewhat like this to show that we are working on this? | 15:43 |
| cdent | _nadya_: I don't know. There seems to be quite a few unresolved questions about how best to integrate gnocchi and influxdb. | 15:43 |
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| cdent | As far as I know gnocchi is not instrumented for doing a spec process, soI would say for now post something to os-dev as I think there are lot of people interested in this exact topic | 15:45 |
| cdent | and would like to to see the ideas that people ahve | 15:45 |
| cdent | (I certainly would) | 15:45 |
| ildikov_ | the patch for Influx is abandoned IIRC, I don't remember the exact issues though | 15:45 |
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| cdent | ildikov_: there are two | 15:45 |
| cdent | (which adds to the confusion) | 15:45 |
| ildikov_ | cdent: a-ha, ok | 15:45 |
| _nadya_ | cdent: ok, let's move on | 15:46 |
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| cdent | cool | 15:46 |
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| cdent | #topic open discussion | 15:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:46 | |
| llu-laptop | some questions about the doc | 15:47 |
| llu-laptop | now we have 2 places describing the measurement, | 15:47 |
| ildikov_ | llu-laptop: shoot :) | 15:47 |
| llu-laptop | http://docs.openstack.org/admin-guide-cloud/content/section_telemetry-measurements.html. | 15:47 |
| llu-laptop | http://docs.openstack.org/developer/ceilometer/measurements.html | 15:47 |
| llu-laptop | where should new metrics go? | 15:47 |
| cdent | isn't the second one empty and just pointing the first one? | 15:47 |
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| prad | should be the first one.. | 15:48 |
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| cdent | admin-guide | 15:48 |
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| ildikov_ | llu-laptop: the first describes the user which are the available meters | 15:48 |
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| ildikov_ | llu-laptop: the second one describes the develop how to add new ones | 15:48 |
| llu-laptop | also, I find that the API reference is not consistent with the API listed on developer doc | 15:48 |
| ildikov_ | llu-laptop: and after adding new ones to the code s/he should describe them in the first doc :) | 15:48 |
| prad | i thought first one points to second one now | 15:48 |
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| ildikov_ | llu-laptop: the api reference doc is under change | 15:49 |
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| llu-laptop | got that thanks | 15:49 |
| _nadya_ | one question about aodh. What data it will process? | 15:49 |
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| ildikov_ | llu-laptop: there is a patch on review, if we have interest to volunteer to participate in the trial process, I'm happy to raise it to Anne | 15:49 |
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| ildikov_ | I wouldn't want to do double work, even if the point is very vaid | 15:50 |
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| ildikov_ | prad: the pointer is for those, who got used to find the meters available in the Dev docs | 15:50 |
| cdent | _nadya_: aodh will initially just process the same data it processes now: it will store alarms in a database, and use the ceilometer-api to do evaluation | 15:50 |
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| _nadya_ | cdent: Maybe there are some plans to let users to determine the service that provides data for processing? | 15:51 |
| ildikov_ | llu-laptop: do you have intention/bandwidth to look into the api reference things? | 15:51 |
| cdent | _nadya_ yes, I think that's after the "intiially" part | 15:51 |
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| cdent | in fact being able to do that sort of thing is one main reasons for starting the splits | 15:51 |
| cdent | to make that sort of thing easier | 15:51 |
| _nadya_ | cdent: ok, I see. Thanks! | 15:52 |
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| llu-laptop | ildikov_: i don't have myself. but i'll try to look for others in our teams to see if he/she has some | 15:52 |
| cdent | I asked jd the same thing and he said he didn't plan to change functionality at first | 15:52 |
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| ildikov_ | llu-laptop: ok, cool, I wanted to contact Anne anyway regarding to this, if I have some useful information I'll ping you | 15:52 |
| llu-laptop | ildikov_: thx | 15:53 |
| _nadya_ | cdent: initial part will be finished at this cycle :)? | 15:53 |
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| cdent | that's the plan, and a big contributor on the question of whether to delete or deprecate. | 15:53 |
| cdent | anybody or anything else? | 15:54 |
| thorst | I have a BP ready for review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/192642/ | 15:54 |
| thorst | As people get time, could you take a peak and let me know if I'm on the right track. Would love to get this into the release. | 15:54 |
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| llu-laptop | thorst: sure | 15:55 |
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| _nadya_ | folks, what do you think, should we verify that all samples have resource_id? | 15:55 |
| thorst | thx! | 15:55 |
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| _nadya_ | I've faced with this problem and now we don't check that | 15:56 |
| cdent | cool thorst. Have you seen this: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-June/067283.html It won't have immediate impact on what you're planning, but probably eventually | 15:56 |
| cdent | _nadya_: did we used to? | 15:56 |
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| _nadya_ | cdent: afaik, no | 15:57 |
| ildikov_ | cdent: I don't think so, we were usually happy if the notifications didn't break our system that often... :( | 15:57 |
| thorst | cdent: yeah, I just heard about that yesterday | 15:57 |
| llu-laptop | _nadya_: why I remember we require resource_id? | 15:57 |
| thorst | something that we'd support as that solidifies | 15:57 |
| thorst | but seems to be post this release (maybe experimental this release) | 15:57 |
| cdent | I don't reckon the people with historically informed opinions are all here, maybe post something to the mailing list _nadya_ ? | 15:58 |
| cdent | thorst: yes, definitely very long term | 15:58 |
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| _nadya_ | llu-laptop: it was in discovery code | 15:58 |
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| llu-laptop | thorst: what's the status of powervm support in nova? | 15:58 |
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| cdent | two minutes | 15:59 |
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| llu-laptop | _nadya_: I vaguely remember we require resource_id in mongoDB, maybe in v1 API? | 15:59 |
| thorst | llu-laptop: We've been working with the nova core team. Right now we're a separate stackforge project (same with Neutron). We're building up our automation, but have provisioning, deletes, console, etc... working | 15:59 |
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| _nadya_ | llu-laptop: I'll check, thank you | 15:59 |
| thorst | llu-laptop: https://github.com/stackforge/nova-powervm/ | 16:00 |
| cdent | that's it, times up, thanks everyone | 16:00 |
| cdent | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:00 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 18 16:00:13 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2015/ceilometer.2015-06-18-15.05.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2015/ceilometer.2015-06-18-15.05.txt | 16:00 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2015/ceilometer.2015-06-18-15.05.log.html | 16:00 |
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| klindgren | o/ | 16:01 |
| * pc_m lurking | 16:01 | |
| sridhar_ram | hi | 16:01 |
| * regXboi lurking as well | 16:01 | |
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| sridhar_ram | s3wong: you there ? | 16:02 |
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| * carl_baldwin here too | 16:02 | |
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| dgollub | o/ | 16:02 |
| VW | hey guys | 16:02 |
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| vishwanathj | hi | 16:02 |
| VW | sorry I'm late | 16:02 |
| VW | let me get the bot bits going | 16:02 |
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| VW | #startmeeting Large Deployment Team | 16:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 18 16:03:13 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is VW. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Large Deployment Team)" | 16:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'large_deployment_team' | 16:03 |
| VW | how is everyone? | 16:03 |
| belmoreira | o/ | 16:03 |
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| * rockyg is lurking, too because she finally remembered the day and time | 16:03 | |
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| VW | good - glad to have you! | 16:04 |
| sridhar_ram | VW: this slot seems to clashing with Tacker weekly IRC | 16:04 |
| VW | I put it here several weeks ago https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings | 16:05 |
| VW | but that all looks to have changed :\ | 16:05 |
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| sridhar_ram | VW: AFAIK it needs to grabbed using infra project | 16:06 |
| sridhar_ram | using a gerritt review | 16:06 |
| VW | yes, I see that now | 16:06 |
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| serg_melikyan | o/ | 16:07 |
| sridhar_ram | serg_melikyan: hi | 16:07 |
| serg_melikyan | Hi folks :) | 16:07 |
| sridhar_ram | hang in.. we are sorting out a meeting clash | 16:07 |
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| VW | openstack-meeting-2 looks empty | 16:07 |
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| VW | LDT folks - let's move there | 16:07 |
| VW | #endmeeting | 16:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:07 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 18 16:07:54 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:07 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/large_deployment_team/2015/large_deployment_team.2015-06-18-16.03.html | 16:07 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/large_deployment_team/2015/large_deployment_team.2015-06-18-16.03.txt | 16:07 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/large_deployment_team/2015/large_deployment_team.2015-06-18-16.03.log.html | 16:07 |
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| sridhar_ram | VW: thanks | 16:08 |
| sridhar_ram | who is here for Tacker mtg ? | 16:08 |
| sripriya | o/ | 16:08 |
| VW | klindgren, belmoreira - anyone else for LDT^ | 16:08 |
| dgollub | o/ | 16:08 |
| bobh | bobh is here for Tacker | 16:08 |
| prashantD | o/ | 16:08 |
| serg_melikyan | o/ | 16:08 |
| sridhar_ram | alright lets start.. hopefully s3wong joins soon | 16:09 |
| sridhar_ram | #startmeeting tacker | 16:09 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 18 16:09:06 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sridhar_ram. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:09 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:09 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tacker' | 16:09 |
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| sridhar_ram | #link Agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Tacker#Meeting_June_18.2C_2015 | 16:09 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic announcements | 16:09 |
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| sridhar_ram | I don't have anything specific to announce this week.. things are chugging along.. | 16:10 |
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| sridhar_ram | any else have a thing to announce here ? | 16:10 |
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| dgollub | nope | 16:11 |
| bobh | no | 16:11 |
| sridhar_ram | lets move on .. | 16:11 |
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| sripriya | looks like yamahata's devstack repo is having issues wrt global requirements | 16:11 |
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| sripriya | so i'm actively working on that to update stackrc and local.conf files | 16:12 |
| sridhar_ram | sripriya: lets run through the Agenda first and take this issue up soon | 16:12 |
| sripriya | sure | 16:12 |
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| sridhar_ram | given serg_melikyan is here .. I thought we could start with Murano discussion first | 16:12 |
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| sridhar_ram | #topic Tacker-Murano integration | 16:13 |
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| sridhar_ram | dgollub: please take it over | 16:13 |
| dgollub | sure | 16:13 |
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| dgollub | let me introduce you serg_melikyan | 16:13 |
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| dgollub | so I finally managed to drop him an invite | 16:13 |
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| dgollub | so we might want to drop all a quick Murano question we have in today .. even if it wasn't on todays agenda | 16:14 |
| dgollub | it was the last two times | 16:14 |
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| dgollub | I gave serg_melikyan and other Murano folks a quick run down on tacker on the design summit | 16:14 |
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| dgollub | serg_melikyan: before we start bothering you with some murano questions .. do you have any to tacker right now? | 16:15 |
| serg_melikyan | dgollub: Unfortunately I didn't had time after summit to play with Tacker :( So not so much questions | 16:16 |
| dgollub | ok - no worries. | 16:16 |
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| serg_melikyan | I propose to start with quick questions and if needed schedule specific meeting were we can discuss possible integration | 16:16 |
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| s3wong | sorry, guys. Traffic has been unbearably bad | 16:17 |
| sridhar_ram | serg_melikyan: I've some basic understand of Murano.. what is done within that project to have NFV VNF as Murano catalog items ? | 16:17 |
| dgollub | In tacker we are interested especially in two things: 1. we don't want to spin our own catalog for any type of appliance and want to ideally base on existing projects, 2. TOSCA ... we see there several projects working on TOSCA indepdentley ... whats your plan in Murano - do you plan to join other TOSCA efforts? | 16:17 |
| sridhar_ram | s3wong: glad you are here.. we just started, discussion Murano | 16:17 |
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| s3wong | sridhar_ram: good | 16:18 |
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| serg_melikyan | sridhar_ram: we don't have anything specific done for NFV/VNF, but given that VNF it's just an application, and Murano is application catalog, we have a way to describe how to deploy application and tie them together. | 16:19 |
| serg_melikyan | and additionally ability to expose any API as application (SDN(s)?) | 16:19 |
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| serg_melikyan | sridhar_ram: wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Murano/Screencasts - more here | 16:19 |
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| sridhar_ram | serg_melikyan: thanks.. | 16:20 |
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| sridhar_ram | serg_melikyan: another area we could interlock....is enhancing tosca to heat-translator | 16:21 |
| serg_melikyan | dgollub: 1) Murano may be integrated with Tacker in several different ways, including having Tacker as tool which will be responsible for deployment, or tool which will tie VNF together | 16:21 |
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| sridhar_ram | is Murano team involved in that effort as well ? | 16:21 |
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| serg_melikyan | 2) Folks from tosca-translator are working for implementing support for TOSCA in Murano through tosca-translator, and we helping them with this | 16:22 |
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| dgollub | ok there is no risk here of duplicated work - right? | 16:22 |
| serg_melikyan | but I am not aware about Murano core folks working on heat-translator | 16:22 |
| serg_melikyan | dgollub: looks like so | 16:23 |
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| s3wong | serg_melikyan: good to know (that we aren't doing duplicated work) | 16:24 |
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| sridhar_ram | serg_melikyan: when you mention "Tacler as tool .. for deployment" .. you mean Murano --calling--> Tacker API to instantiate the template ? | 16:24 |
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| serg_melikyan | sridhar_ram: one of the possible ways to do that :) | 16:24 |
| sridhar_ram | that will be interesting as we are / will be more TOSCA compliant | 16:24 |
| sridhar_ram | serg_melikyan: cool, we should explore that further | 16:25 |
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| serg_melikyan | But at the same time we will have tosca-based packages in Murano which will be also able to deploy TOSCA template using heat-translator to convert it to HOT before deployment | 16:26 |
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| s3wong | sridhar_ram: yes, we need to study Murano further to see where the integration points lie | 16:26 |
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| serg_melikyan | s3wong: we can schedule for example some call where I can show that :) | 16:26 |
| sridhar_ram | serg_melikyan: for short-term I'd suggest we should exchange notes / collaborate on the evolution of TOSCA heat-translator | 16:26 |
| s3wong | serg_melikyan: that would be great! | 16:26 |
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| sridhar_ram | while looking for further alignment beyond that | 16:27 |
| sridhar_ram | serg_melikyan: that will be cool | 16:27 |
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| sridhar_ram | dgollub: can you help schedule that call ? | 16:28 |
| serg_melikyan | #action serg_melikyan schedule a call to demonstrate Murano and extention points | 16:28 |
| sridhar_ram | serg_melikyan: thanks! | 16:28 |
| serg_melikyan | #undo | 16:28 |
| s3wong | serg_melikyan: thanks! | 16:28 |
| serg_melikyan | #action serg_melikyan with dgollub schedule a call to demonstrate Murano and extention points | 16:28 |
| dgollub | sure I can do that | 16:29 |
| sridhar_ram | dgollub: thanks! | 16:29 |
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| serg_melikyan | Let's together find time :) | 16:29 |
| sridhar_ram | :) | 16:29 |
| s3wong | absolutely :-) | 16:29 |
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| sridhar_ram | we almost half way mark .. lets move on to the next topic | 16:29 |
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| sridhar_ram | #topic Tacker TOSCA Enhancements | 16:30 |
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| sridhar_ram | Folks - involved in the heat-translator project and from TOSCA stds group is scheduling a call soon | 16:30 |
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| sridhar_ram | As mentioned last week this is to bring TOSCA NFV profile support to heat translator | 16:31 |
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| sridhar_ram | #link https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/55662/tosca-nfv-v1.0-wd01-rev04.doc | 16:31 |
| sridhar_ram | They believe Tacker project is well suited to validate this profile and its implementation in heat-translator | 16:32 |
| sridhar_ram | this is really good news for us | 16:32 |
| dgollub | awesome | 16:32 |
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| sripriya | cool! | 16:32 |
| s3wong | nice | 16:33 |
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| vishwanathj | nice | 16:33 |
| sridhar_ram | let me know who is interested to participate in this call... | 16:33 |
| dgollub | o/ | 16:33 |
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| bobh | o/ | 16:33 |
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| s3wong | sridhar_ram: I finally found the invite in my spam folder :-) | 16:34 |
| sridhar_ram | s3wong: yeah, I saw you were already in the invite | 16:34 |
| sridhar_ram | bobh: dgollub: sure things | 16:34 |
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| sridhar_ram | I think we will take the next step on this based on that call... | 16:35 |
| vishwanathj | sridhar_ram, I am interested | 16:35 |
| sridhar_ram | hopefully we will start coding within heat-translator | 16:35 |
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| sridhar_ram | vishwanathj: sure | 16:35 |
| sridhar_ram | anything else to discuss on TOSCA-NFV ? | 16:35 |
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| sridhar_ram | lets move on.. | 16:36 |
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| sridhar_ram | #topic Ease of Installation | 16:37 |
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| sridhar_ram | Over last many weeks.. different folks are trying out Tacker.. one immediate thing that is hitting them is the uneven installation steps for Tacker | 16:38 |
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| sridhar_ram | we need to make this better ... | 16:38 |
| sridhar_ram | we got some piece in .. like tacker-horizon stackforge but we need to make this better | 16:38 |
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| s3wong | +1 | 16:39 |
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| sridhar_ram | bobh: Since you and your team tried installing .. can you share your thoughts ? | 16:39 |
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| bobh | ronr84 was able to get everything installed after several days of effort, so he would have more details but I think it's a matter of some basic documentation and removing the cruft left over from neutron | 16:40 |
| bobh | The tacker.conf file cleanup will go a long way, and if we had a README file that laid out the steps that would help too | 16:40 |
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| bobh | I'll check to see if ronr84 has anything we can publish with the steps he followed | 16:41 |
| s3wong | bobh: sripriya recently did some work on tacker.conf cleanup: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/192047/ | 16:41 |
| sridhar_ram | bobh: that feedback helps.. Kamal Hussain reached out separately and I prepared a quick list of steps to install | 16:42 |
| bobh | s3wong: I saw that - I can add myself as a reviewer | 16:42 |
| sripriya | bobh: please add me to your discussion with ronr84 | 16:42 |
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| sridhar_ram | I can pass that on to ronr84 for further thoughs | 16:42 |
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| s3wong | bobh: sure (although I have already approved it :-) ) | 16:42 |
| sripriya | we are working on something in improvising the ease of tacker-installation | 16:42 |
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| sripriya | and are facing some setbacks with the current devstack setup | 16:42 |
| s3wong | bobh: but do please give further feedback for any further cleanup deemed necessary | 16:43 |
| sridhar_ram | Totally agree we need a README and / or usage.rst file in doc/devref to start with | 16:43 |
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| bobh | sripriya: I'll include you | 16:43 |
| sripriya | bobh: Thanks! | 16:43 |
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| s3wong | as for devstack, I looked at the devstack plugin stuff | 16:44 |
| s3wong | while we can do it --- for immediate help (inspired by networking-ovn), I can add a devstack directory on top and include a local.conf.sample | 16:45 |
| bobh | s3wong: That would be great | 16:45 |
| s3wong | I think that would go a long way for devstack installation even without the devstack plugin for now | 16:45 |
| sridhar_ram | +1 | 16:45 |
| s3wong | as devstack plugin needs to add a file in devstack repo, it may take some time... | 16:45 |
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| sdague | s3wong: no it doesn't | 16:46 |
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| sdague | there is a fully external mechanism for it | 16:46 |
| sridhar_ram | s3wong: hmm.. I though it goes into Tacker repo in the new scheme | 16:46 |
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| sdague | sridhar_ram: ++ | 16:46 |
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| s3wong | sdague: it needs a file under extra.d, right? | 16:46 |
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| sdague | s3wong: no | 16:46 |
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| sdague | http://docs.openstack.org/developer/devstack/plugins.html#externally-hosted-plugins | 16:46 |
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| sripriya | s3wong: i can help on creating the devstack plugin | 16:48 |
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| s3wong | sdague: hmm... I did read that (and am reading it again), still feels like you need to add a script under extras.d under devstack repo | 16:49 |
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| sdague | s3wong: you don't | 16:49 |
| sdague | anyway, find me in #openstack-qa later if you want to dive deeper | 16:50 |
| s3wong | sripriya: sure. In the meantime, we can still add a local.conf.sample under tacker's devstack directory | 16:50 |
| s3wong | sdague: sure. Will do that | 16:50 |
| sridhar_ram | s3wong: agree | 16:50 |
| s3wong | sdague: thanks! | 16:50 |
| sripriya | sdague:Thanks | 16:50 |
| sdague | no prob | 16:51 |
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| sridhar_ram | lets move on | 16:51 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Testing | 16:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Testing (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:51 | |
| sridhar_ram | #undo | 16:51 |
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| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x9b9a0d0> | 16:51 |
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| sridhar_ram | #action s3wong will add a sample local.conf in the tacker repo | 16:52 |
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| sridhar_ram | #action sripriya will look into externally hosted devstack plugin for tacker | 16:52 |
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| sridhar_ram | #topic Testing | 16:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Testing (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:52 | |
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| sridhar_ram | s3wong: any update on unit tests ? | 16:53 |
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| s3wong | sridhar_ram: 7 more minutes :-) | 16:53 |
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| dgollub | no updates from my side ... since we have some QA folks here | 16:53 |
| sridhar_ram | s3wong: yeah, we need few mins for open-discussion | 16:53 |
| dgollub | where do we find a good run_tests.sh reference? ours seems to be outdated ... | 16:53 |
| s3wong | sridhar_ram: no, sorry. Was more focused on looking at devstack plugin | 16:53 |
| dgollub | I wonder if run_tests.sh is the latest way to go anway. Or pure testr or so. | 16:54 |
| s3wong | dgollub: ours is probably just a copy from Neutron repo | 16:54 |
| sridhar_ram | s3wong: no worries | 16:54 |
| s3wong | dgollub: I actually just always run tox... | 16:54 |
| dgollub | sdague: do you have any recommendation? | 16:54 |
| s3wong | dgollub: mainly pep8 and p27 | 16:54 |
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| sridhar_ram | s3wong: imo, we need some py27 unit tests | 16:55 |
| sdague | the recommendation is just use tox | 16:55 |
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| dgollub | ok .. then I guess we just wipe run_tests.sh | 16:55 |
| dgollub | it just causes people to run it and expect that is going to work | 16:55 |
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| s3wong | sridhar_ram: yes, and I am still on hook to provide that :-) | 16:55 |
| sridhar_ram | 5 min mark... | 16:55 |
| s3wong | sridhar_ram: at least API/DB | 16:55 |
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| sridhar_ram | s3wong: and I'm going to look into some gate-able functional testing :) | 16:56 |
| dgollub | Ok, beside that. There is some test code which relies on oslo changes which never got merged .... | 16:56 |
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| dgollub | e.g. the unix_impl class or something like thata | 16:56 |
| s3wong | sridhar_ram: we are on hook for all the missing infra :-) | 16:56 |
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| sridhar_ram | dgollub: please provide a link | 16:56 |
| sridhar_ram | s3wong: :) | 16:56 |
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| sridhar_ram | folks - lets continue the testing discussion next week.. | 16:56 |
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| dgollub | sorry the class name was impl_unix | 16:56 |
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| sridhar_ram | lets open up for general discussion | 16:57 |
| s3wong | dgollub: definitely something we need to remove and refactor | 16:57 |
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| sridhar_ram | dgollub: sure, will keep an eye out | 16:57 |
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| sridhar_ram | moving on.. | 16:57 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Open Discussion | 16:57 |
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| s3wong | 3 minutes :-) | 16:57 |
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| sridhar_ram | any general thoughts on Tacker as its heading ? :) | 16:58 |
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| s3wong | sridhar_ram: heading? | 16:58 |
| puri | its heading in great direction | 16:58 |
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| sridhar_ram | puri: thanks!! that means a lot Rakesh | 16:58 |
| dgollub | growing slowly I would say. I pinged the Stratus folks ... anyone of them have been around today? | 16:58 |
| s3wong | puri: good to hear that from user :-) | 16:58 |
| puri | you are solving a huge problem$$ for carriers | 16:59 |
| bobh | Just curious if there has been any thought to how monitoring details will be specified in a TOSCA template, and whether Tacker would split those out before sending the template on to Heat? | 16:59 |
| bobh | Does the NFV template need to be enhanced to cover monitoring/metrics specification? | 16:59 |
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| sridhar_ram | bobh: good questions.. we can take it up in the next call ? we just ran out of time | 16:59 |
| s3wong | bobh: I think that would be a great topic to discuss with the IBM folks in the coming call | 17:00 |
| dgollub | that's an extremly good question ... I never looked into the monitoring aspect | 17:00 |
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| sridhar_ram | alright times up | 17:00 |
| sridhar_ram | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 18 17:00:21 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2015/tacker.2015-06-18-16.09.html | 17:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2015/tacker.2015-06-18-16.09.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2015/tacker.2015-06-18-16.09.log.html | 17:00 |
| s3wong | thank you guys! | 17:00 |
| sridhar_ram | bye everyone! | 17:00 |
| dgollub | bobh: maybe you could rasie something in the telcowg by adding a usecase? | 17:00 |
| s3wong | (and sorry that I was late) | 17:00 |
| sripriya | bye, thanks | 17:00 |
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| dgollub | like I did with the vnf bringup? You might get input on that topic then | 17:00 |
| bobh | dgollub: good idea - I'll take a look at that | 17:00 |
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| dkranz | #startmeeting qa | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 18 17:01:05 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dkranz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'qa' | 17:01 |
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| sdague | o/ (though I will have to cut early) | 17:01 |
| dkranz | Hi. Who is here today? | 17:01 |
| andreaf | o/ | 17:01 |
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| jlanoux | hi | 17:01 |
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| dkranz | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/QATeamMeeting#Proposed_Agenda_for_June_11th_2015_.281700_UTC.29 | 17:02 |
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| dkranz | Forgot to change the date in the agenda | 17:02 |
| anteaya | o/ | 17:02 |
| anteaya | sc68cal: ping | 17:02 |
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| sc68cal | hello | 17:02 |
| dkranz | #topic Specs Reviews | 17:02 |
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| * afazekas hi | 17:03 | |
| dkranz | I encourage every one to comment on the plugin spec | 17:03 |
| dkranz | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/184992/ | 17:03 |
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| dkranz | Does any one have any comments or another spec to discuss? | 17:04 |
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| edwarnicke | #info edleafe | 17:04 |
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| edwarnicke | #undo | 17:04 |
| edwarnicke | #info edwarnicke | 17:04 |
| dkranz | ok, how about any blueprints | 17:04 |
| andreaf | oh I missed that, I will do that | 17:05 |
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| dkranz | ok, I put this item in: "Deprecation of user account options in tempest.conf" | 17:05 |
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| dkranz | Is there a reason to not transition to using test accounts and deprecate the demo/alt-demo stuff? | 17:06 |
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| afazekas | dkranz, It is simpler to use, I have no other idea | 17:07 |
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| andreaf | dkranz: well they are two different things I think | 17:07 |
| dkranz | There is a bunch of ugly code to deal with that and it complicates cleanup, tempest config, etc. | 17:07 |
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| dkranz | andreaf: what is the use case for the tempest.conf user values? | 17:07 |
| dkranz | andreaf: rather than using a single set of test accounts? | 17:07 |
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| andreaf | dkranz: so I think we need to support two use case stiil - tenant isolation, which requires admin credentials only (from configuration file, at least for now), and pre-provisioned accounts, which should use the yaml file only | 17:08 |
| dkranz | andreaf: That's what I thought as well. | 17:09 |
| afazekas | Generally, tempest has a several code path which is not used too frequently , and maybe noone really needs them. I am ok with droping those, and revert the drop if some pops up, he really needs the old code path .. | 17:09 |
| dkranz | afazekas: yeah, we have the cases of "throw-away" cloud, test cloud, production cloud | 17:09 |
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| dkranz | But I don't see the need for the tempest conf values for any of them | 17:10 |
| andreaf | dkranz: so test jobs in the gate which run serially (ironic I think) should be migrated to use test-accounts, and we should also introduce some gate jobs which use test accounts in parallel | 17:10 |
| dkranz | andreaf: yes, I agree | 17:10 |
| afazekas | I would like to see, less but well working code path at the early phase of this cycle, then adding even more special cases when the main ones are close to `perfect` | 17:10 |
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| dkranz | andreaf: I just wanted to discuss a timeline for that | 17:10 |
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| dkranz | afazekas: what do you mean? | 17:11 |
| dkranz | afazekas: I think all the code we need is already there | 17:11 |
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| dkranz | afazekas: and we just need to start using test accounts more aggressively | 17:11 |
| andreaf | dkranz, afazekas: after we change the gate I think we could officially mark those options as deprecated - but I don't know what would be a fair time between deprecation and actually removing them | 17:11 |
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| dkranz | andreaf: To me it is most important when we can stop supporting them. For example, the cleanup case is hard for those values since we don't specify a network/router like we do in test accounts. | 17:12 |
| dkranz | andreaf: So I would like to say we do not support cleanup unless you use test accounts | 17:12 |
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| afazekas | andreaf: I do not know do we really need to manage fair time, the problem is we do not really know what we are removing is really used by anyone. | 17:13 |
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| dkranz | afazekas: We don't have to remove it quickly but also do not have to make every new feature work with it | 17:13 |
| afazekas | BTW. I know we have lot of requirements for more kind of ssh/network support | 17:13 |
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| andreaf | afazekas: yes but oslo.config introduced this concept of deprecation exactly because it's not fair to just drop options suddenly | 17:14 |
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| dkranz | I don't think we should drop it suddenly | 17:14 |
| dkranz | Just suggesting that newer tools may not need to support that case | 17:14 |
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| andreaf | dkranz: sounds fair enough to me | 17:15 |
| afazekas | andreaf: It is not fair, the question is do we consider tempest as stable api product, or just something which is testing at the ci system | 17:15 |
| dkranz | afazekas: we are trying to stabilize it, but it is not stable quite yet | 17:15 |
| andreaf | afazekas, dkranz: tempest aims to be run against as many cloud as possible | 17:16 |
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| dkranz | andreaf: yes | 17:16 |
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| dkranz | andreaf: I see this much like how we got rid of nose | 17:16 |
| andreaf | afazekas, dkranz: I know we do not provide a stable interface (tempest-lib does) but still I believe we should provide a grace time - we can also ask the ML | 17:16 |
| sdague | ++ to some deprecation time on config options | 17:17 |
| dkranz | andreaf: sure | 17:17 |
| sdague | given that people are given the whole config file and told that's their interface | 17:17 |
| dkranz | ok, I'll send something to the mailing list | 17:17 |
| dkranz | sdague: agreed | 17:17 |
| afazekas | dkranz,andreaf: the question is can we do faster run, if we do thing not too politely now, and reaching a `product` which is more maintanble and consistent at the end of the cycle . | 17:17 |
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| dkranz | afazekas: The main thing I am proposing is that the new 'tempest cleanup' and 'tempest configure' not support the conf user names | 17:18 |
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| afazekas | sdague: With a rolling release component like timest, is 1 month deprecation time is enough ? | 17:19 |
| dkranz | afazekas: but not remove those options except after quite some time | 17:19 |
| sdague | afazekas: tempest has releases | 17:19 |
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| sdague | so it should deprecate across at least one release boundary | 17:19 |
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| dkranz | I suggest not removing these options until the beginning of M, even though we are not on that schedule | 17:19 |
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| sdague | mtreinish should clearly weigh in | 17:19 |
| sdague | yep | 17:19 |
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| sdague | that seems pretty reasonable | 17:20 |
| dkranz | sdague: yes, we should discuss with Matt for sure | 17:20 |
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| afazekas | I have doubts about we really need to have 6 month deprecation times at master. | 17:20 |
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| dkranz | afazekas: well now it is only 4 months :) | 17:20 |
| andreaf | dkranz, afazekas: yes I think it's fair to say new tools won't support deprecated options - we will migrate credential providers to tempest-lib, but I won't migrate the support to configured credentials there for sure - it will stay in tempest as deprecated | 17:20 |
| dkranz | andreaf: sounds good | 17:21 |
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| dkranz | I am going to try and create a test account job | 17:21 |
| dkranz | If my bash is up to it | 17:21 |
| dkranz | andreaf: have you done that yet, at all? | 17:22 |
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| dkranz | sdague: since you had to leave early, is there anything you wanted to discuss about devstack/grenade? | 17:22 |
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| andreaf | dkranz: we mostly used a patch on top to test the test-accounts code path until now - so I think you will have to create one | 17:23 |
| dkranz | andreaf: ok | 17:23 |
| sdague | dkranz: sure, the modular grenade bits are out there | 17:23 |
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| dkranz | sdague: that's great. Tempest is a little behind in that area. | 17:24 |
| sdague | #info grenade out of tree plugin write up - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-June/066583.html | 17:24 |
| sdague | heat works with it, but not all the heat code is landed yet | 17:24 |
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| sdague | I also started to execute some of the devstack cleanup agreed to at summit | 17:25 |
| sdague | by deleting the non rabbit bits of devstack | 17:25 |
| dkranz | sdague: I think there was a lot of noise about your email because many folks did not realize that "big tent" also meant "small tent" in terms of some things people were used to having and are now going to be ejected. | 17:25 |
| sdague | #info Removing non Rabbit from Devstack - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-June/067111.html | 17:25 |
| dkranz | sdague: I got similar comments in some of the tempest sessions. | 17:25 |
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| dkranz | sdague: but it is great that modular progress is being made | 17:25 |
| sdague | so, yeh, that got more adventurous than I expected | 17:25 |
| dkranz | sdague: :) | 17:26 |
| dkranz | sdague: change is hard, I guess | 17:26 |
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| sdague | I wrote the zmq plugin this morning | 17:26 |
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| sdague | #info zmq out of tree devstack plugin - https://github.com/sdague/zmq-devstack | 17:26 |
| dkranz | sdague: I think that will help demonstrate it is not such a big deal | 17:26 |
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| sdague | it took about 2 hours from blank canvas to fully tested | 17:26 |
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| afazekas | BTW, AMQP 1.0 proton thing (with routers instead of brokers) was promising, is anybody knows it's status ? | 17:26 |
| sdague | dkranz: yeh, I hope so | 17:27 |
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| sdague | afazekas: no idea, and honestly, from a devstack perspective, they should be doing that as a plugin like the zmq one | 17:27 |
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| dkranz | yup | 17:27 |
| sdague | so anyway, that's where those things stand | 17:28 |
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| dkranz | sdague: ok, thanks for the update and the great example | 17:28 |
| dkranz | I think bugs is next up. | 17:28 |
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| dkranz | Any one have any bugs to discuss? | 17:29 |
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| afazekas | I am not big fun of having a lot of small plugin repos, instead of occasionally merging something what you may not fully understand to the main repo | 17:29 |
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| dkranz | The bug triage rotation is still quite empty: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/qa-bug-triage-rotation | 17:29 |
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| dkranz | Is there a reason folks are not signing up for a few slots? | 17:30 |
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| dkranz | afazekas: I think it is really going to be up to the devstack team to decide that | 17:30 |
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| andreaf | dkranz: it's really hard for me to spend time on bug triage, I'd rather use the time I have on reviews on blueprints | 17:31 |
| afazekas | afazekas: I see, but et the end will end up with a lot of repos | 17:31 |
| andreaf | dkranz: how much time does it take typically? | 17:31 |
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| afazekas | andreaf: 2-4h | 17:32 |
| dkranz | andreaf: I would say about 1/2 to 1 hour for a week duty | 17:32 |
| dkranz | andreaf: of course it depends on incoming bugs | 17:32 |
| andreaf | dkranz, afazekas: ok I'll give it a go | 17:33 |
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| dkranz | andreaf: It is mostly changing bugs from New to Invalid or Confirmed/Triaged | 17:33 |
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| dkranz | andreaf: thanks! | 17:33 |
| dkranz | andreaf: we get a fair number of invalid bug reports | 17:33 |
| dkranz | andreaf: but usually not more than one or two per day | 17:34 |
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| dkranz | ok, any reviews that should get attention? | 17:34 |
| andreaf | dkranz: ok | 17:34 |
| andreaf | dkranz: yes - let me get the link :) | 17:34 |
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| dkranz | andreaf: anyway, none of us really wants to do it which is why we have the rotation :) | 17:35 |
| afazekas | andreaf: some cases there are bugs for surprising things, and you may need to do some study before you can response in a good way. | 17:35 |
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| dkranz | afazekas: true | 17:35 |
| andreaf | dkranz: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/151601/ | 17:35 |
| dkranz | cleanup: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/191978/ | 17:36 |
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| andreaf | afazekas: yes sure | 17:36 |
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| jlanoux | dkranz: andreaf sdague SSL experimental #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/180968/ | 17:36 |
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| dkranz | sorry, I have to leave for two minutes | 17:37 |
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| dkranz | any one have anything else to discuss? | 17:39 |
| dkranz | I will send an email about the tempest conf thing | 17:40 |
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| andreaf | dkranz: thanks | 17:41 |
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| dkranz | ok, last call for discussion... | 17:41 |
| dkranz | Thanks every one. | 17:42 |
| afazekas | andreaf, With ssh stuff, I would like to move fast. So if the change does not looks dangerous to the gate stability we should merge it and polish later. Looks like it will not be done ever if we nit picking.. | 17:42 |
| sdague | jlanoux: so my concern on that is we've got this whole issue with server catalog reflection | 17:42 |
| sdague | which means a huge amount of config changes are needed, which we need to fix | 17:42 |
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| sdague | someone else was working through changes related to that and promissed an ML thread which I don't think I've seen yet | 17:42 |
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| sdague | anyway, can take that back to channel | 17:44 |
| jlanoux | sdague: ok - I'll watch the server catalog reflection | 17:44 |
| dkranz | afazekas: Is there a review you comment is referring to? | 17:44 |
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| jlanoux | sdague: I'll ping you later on - I need to take care of the kids now | 17:44 |
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| afazekas | dkranz: "dkranz: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/151601/" | 17:45 |
| dkranz | afazekas: It just awaits your +A :) | 17:45 |
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| afazekas | dkranz: :) tomorrow, (I do not wan't +A when I am in a pub) | 17:46 |
| dkranz | afazekas: ok :) | 17:46 |
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| dkranz | afazekas: there was also a request to look at the patches depending on this to make sure they run | 17:47 |
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| jlanoux | dkranz: afazekas yes - there was a last issue with rebasing. that shoud be good soon | 17:48 |
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| dkranz | jlanoux: thanks | 17:48 |
| dkranz | ok, if there is nothing else, we can end a few minutes early | 17:48 |
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| dkranz | #endmeeting | 17:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:49 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 18 17:49:12 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:49 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2015/qa.2015-06-18-17.01.html | 17:49 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2015/qa.2015-06-18-17.01.txt | 17:49 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2015/qa.2015-06-18-17.01.log.html | 17:49 |
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| stevemar | just an fyi - no OSC meeting today | 19:18 |
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| mikal | abhishekk mikal tjones cburgess jgrimm adrian_otto funzo mjturek jcookekhugen irina_pov krtaylor danpb alexpilotti flip214 jaypipes gilliard garyk edleafe dims moshele anteaya Nisha sileht claudiub lxsli neiljerram markus_z swamireddy alevine tonyb andreykurilin ndipanov sc68cal akuriata artom jlvillal mnestratov kashyap: ping, nova meeting in a few minutes | 20:53 |
| jaypipes | o/ | 20:53 |
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| tonyb | mikal: o/ | 20:54 |
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| mrda | o/ | 20:54 |
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| sc68cal | o/ | 20:57 |
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| mikal | One minute warning | 20:59 |
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| mikal | #startmeeting nova | 20:59 |
| anteaya | o/ | 20:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 18 20:59:56 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mikal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 20:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 21:00 |
| mikal | #topic Release status | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Release status (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:00 | |
| mriedem | ohi | 21:00 |
| beagles | o/ | 21:00 |
| mnestratov | o/ | 21:00 |
| mikal | So the first thing on the agenda for today is release status stuff. | 21:00 |
| mikal | Liberty-1 is somewhere between 23 and 25 June | 21:00 |
| mrda | o/ | 21:00 |
| mikal | And is the deadline for spec approval for non-priority work | 21:00 |
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| alaski | o/ | 21:00 |
| mikal | Thanks to those who helped out on spec review day | 21:00 |
| mikal | But we do need to keep focus on spec review for just a little bit longer | 21:01 |
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| mikal | I see there are a lot of specs with negative feedback for example, which probably means their authors need to take another look at them | 21:01 |
| bauzas | \o | 21:01 |
| mikal | Any other thoughts on spec reviews before we move on? | 21:01 |
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| kfox1111 | :/ | 21:02 |
| mikal | Ok, John also wanted me to remind y'all about liberty priorities | 21:02 |
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| mikal | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-nova-priorities-tracking | 21:02 |
| dansmith | o/ | 21:02 |
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| mikal | There are specs on there as well as code, so its relevant to the current spec review push as well | 21:02 |
| mriedem | the trivial bug review list has been languishing | 21:02 |
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| mriedem | on the etherpad | 21:02 |
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| bauzas | mriedem: correct | 21:03 |
| edleafe | o/ | 21:03 |
| mikal | mriedem: that's probably true. I feel like all I've had time for myself is spec reviews. | 21:03 |
| vilobhmm1 | how do we handle stuck spec reviews….either talk about them in sub-project meetings or anything else because contacting the person whom you might want the spec to get reviewed might be already swapmed with other specs | 21:03 |
| mriedem | i blame bauzas' baby | 21:03 |
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| bauzas | mriedem: blame rather some spec implem... | 21:03 |
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| mikal | vilobhmm1: it depends why its stuck I suppose. Is there disagreement, or just a reviewer gone AWOL? | 21:03 |
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| dansmith | vilobhmm1: I don't think yours is stuck | 21:03 |
| dansmith | it's just not getting a lot of action | 21:04 |
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| mriedem | stuck means contention | 21:04 |
| dims | o/ | 21:04 |
| claudiub | o/ | 21:04 |
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| mikal | Yeah, so it there's no unsolvable dispute on the review, I think its just reviewers being buried | 21:04 |
| vilobhmm1 | dansmith : ok…but in that case as well attending sub -rpoejct meeting is a better option ? | 21:04 |
| mikal | "just" | 21:04 |
| vilobhmm1 | yep | 21:05 |
| mikal | I don't have a good fix for that apart from patience unfortunately | 21:05 |
| bauzas | vilobhmm1: sounds good | 21:05 |
| vilobhmm1 | bauzas : ok | 21:05 |
| mikal | vilobhmm1: yeah, a heap of +1s from respected sub-team members never hurts | 21:05 |
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| mikal | Anything else on specs before we move on? | 21:05 |
| vilobhmm1 | mikal : sure…thanks | 21:05 |
| mikal | #topic Summit followup | 21:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit followup (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:06 | |
| kfox1111 | what about the nova instance user spec? I think most of the barbican and keystone folks are on board now, but have heard very little from nova reviewers. | 21:06 |
| mikal | #undo | 21:06 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x9a1a4d0> | 21:06 |
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| mikal | kfox1111: got a review link? | 21:06 |
| kfox1111 | yup. just a sec. | 21:06 |
| kfox1111 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/186617 | 21:06 |
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| mriedem | kfox1111: not stuck | 21:07 |
| kfox1111 | the 23'rds getting really close. | 21:07 |
| mriedem | just not getting attention | 21:07 |
| mikal | Well, its got a lot of detailed review comments in the past | 21:07 |
| mikal | Two on the 18th even | 21:07 |
| mikal | I think we just need to let that one go through the process | 21:08 |
| kfox1111 | Is there a way to partially approve it so that it can continue past the 23rd? | 21:08 |
| mikal | kfox1111: that is a question from johnthetubaguy | 21:08 |
| mriedem | kfox1111: if the barbican and keystone people are on board why aren't they +1 on it? | 21:08 |
| mikal | kfox1111: I recommend emailing him, but I am unaware of a plan for spec freeze exceptions | 21:08 |
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| mriedem | kfox1111: i only see your +1 on your own spec :) | 21:08 |
| morganfainberg | mriedem: because we've been discussing it in channels. | 21:09 |
| morganfainberg | mriedem: kfox1111 has been really good about involving us, I have not read the final (current) spec version as I wasn't aware it was ready | 21:09 |
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| mikal | morganfainberg: that's not very visible to us though, could you get some peeps to do a review in gerrit please? | 21:09 |
| mriedem | ok, well, i'd consider some weight from the security minded people to be helpful in the outcome of that spec | 21:09 |
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| morganfainberg | if that helps why we haven't specifically +1'd | 21:10 |
| morganfainberg | or at least why i haven't | 21:10 |
| morganfainberg | mikal: yes. i'll try and wrangle people | 21:10 |
| mikal | morganfainberg: thanks, I think that will help | 21:10 |
| kfox1111 | morganfainberg: thanks. | 21:10 |
| mikal | mriedem: good thinking | 21:10 |
| morganfainberg | at least from the keystone side (i make no claims about wrangling barbican folks) | 21:10 |
| mikal | mriedem: you brained that well | 21:10 |
| mriedem | more compliments please | 21:11 |
| mriedem | thanks | 21:11 |
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| mikal | Heh | 21:11 |
| mikal | Ok, anything else on specs and release status? | 21:11 |
| kfox1111 | I'll try and motivate the barbican side. :/ | 21:11 |
| kfox1111 | thanks. | 21:11 |
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| mikal | ...nothing... | 21:11 |
| mikal | #topic Summit follow ups | 21:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit follow ups (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:12 | |
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| mikal | John also wants to remind us that the etherpad of summit action items exists | 21:12 |
| mikal | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-nova-liberty-summit-action-items | 21:12 |
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| mikal | And that the due date for action items is liberty-1 unless otherwise states | 21:12 |
| mikal | So that's like next week people | 21:12 |
| mikal | I propose we all panic and run around in circles | 21:12 |
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| mriedem | second | 21:13 |
| tonyb | Oh JOhn's going to be busy then ;P | 21:13 |
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| bauzas | oh | 21:13 |
| mikal | Or assign our action items to someone else | 21:13 |
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| bauzas | really? | 21:13 |
| * morganfainberg panics and runs in circles | 21:13 | |
| mriedem | i honestly though l-1 was spec proposal freeze, not approval | 21:13 |
| mriedem | but ok | 21:13 |
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| mikal | mriedem: no, approval IIRC | 21:13 |
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| mikal | I have been wrong before, but I don't think is one of those times | 21:13 |
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| mikal | So... Do your action items people! | 21:13 |
| mikal | Or assign them to sdague! | 21:13 |
| mikal | Does anyone want to talk more about action items apart from being reminded they exist? | 21:14 |
| mriedem | i've assigned all of my mq devstack plugin work to sdague already | 21:14 |
| dims | haha | 21:14 |
| mikal | mriedem: so noted | 21:14 |
| bauzas | just the fact that l-1 sounds great for engaging actions, not resolving them IMHO | 21:14 |
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| dansmith | mriedem: too soon | 21:14 |
| mikal | bauzas: I think we take it on a case by case basis | 21:14 |
| bauzas | just because some of them are just so huge that they can't be done that quick | 21:15 |
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| mikal | bauzas: we do need to get moving on them though, as we only get busier from here | 21:15 |
| bauzas | yeah, that's my thouhgt | 21:15 |
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| mikal | bauzas: I think just do your best and keep the status updated in the etherpad | 21:15 |
| bauzas | I mean I understand john, he wants to make sure people are committed | 21:15 |
| mikal | We couldn't possibly do the _reviews_ for all of them if they got done in time | 21:15 |
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| mikal | So I think we just accept its a goal we aspire to but wont meet | 21:15 |
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| bauzas | fair point | 21:16 |
| mikal | Let's move on | 21:16 |
| mikal | #topic Non-spec reviews to discuss | 21:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Non-spec reviews to discuss (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:16 | |
| mikal | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/consolidate-libvirt-fs-volume-drivers | 21:16 |
| mriedem | that's mine | 21:16 |
| mikal | Is this BP trivial? | 21:17 |
| mriedem | basically refactor the libvirt volume driver stuff into separate modules, | 21:17 |
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| mikal | Do we approve it without a spec? | 21:17 |
| mriedem | and extract a common base class for the file system drivers | 21:17 |
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| mriedem | the bp is really just for bookkeeping | 21:17 |
| tonyb | I though the view from the m/l was no spec needed | 21:17 |
| mikal | It seems sane to me | 21:17 |
| mikal | Which I think I said on the thread as well | 21:17 |
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| mriedem | tonyb: it was from danpb | 21:17 |
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| mikal | tonyb: no spec, still needs a bp | 21:17 |
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| alaski | was the config question resolved in the ml? | 21:18 |
| mriedem | alaski: yeah, no config option chagnes | 21:18 |
| mriedem | b/c cinder multi backend | 21:18 |
| alaski | okay | 21:18 |
| tonyb | my bad. I blame the lack of coffee | 21:18 |
| alaski | then I'm +1 on bp only | 21:18 |
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| mikal | So, I am go to approve this... | 21:18 |
| mikal | Any objections? | 21:18 |
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| claudiub | none | 21:19 |
| mikal | Going... | 21:19 |
| mikal | ...going... | 21:19 |
| mikal | ...gone | 21:19 |
| mriedem | danka | 21:19 |
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| mikal | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/vmware-limits | 21:20 |
| mikal | This one is the next candidate for non-spec approval | 21:20 |
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| mikal | Any thoughts? | 21:20 |
| mriedem | there is a spec for it here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/192675/ | 21:20 |
| mriedem | so not sure why it's on the list... | 21:20 |
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| tjones1 | yeah there's a spec :-) | 21:21 |
| mikal | Ok, so we want to skip over it here then? | 21:21 |
| alaski | it's proposing flavor extra_spec additions, I would prefer the spec | 21:21 |
| mikal | Ok, works for me | 21:22 |
| mriedem | there are a handful of changes to the code | 21:22 |
| mriedem | with several docimpacts | 21:22 |
| melwitt | one of the patches for that has a +2 but the spec isn't approved yet? | 21:22 |
| mikal | melwitt: time for a procedural -2? | 21:22 |
| mriedem | melwitt: feel free to procedural -2 | 21:22 |
| dansmith | +1 for -2 | 21:22 |
| melwitt | okay | 21:22 |
| dansmith | melwitt: first -2? | 21:22 |
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| claudiub | -2++ | 21:22 |
| tjones1 | awwwww | 21:22 |
| dansmith | melwitt: if so, savor it slowly | 21:23 |
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| mikal | Heh | 21:23 |
| bauzas | I'm a bit confused by the limits stuff but let's discuss in the spec | 21:23 |
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| melwitt | :P | 21:23 |
| mikal | Ok, let's move on | 21:23 |
| mikal | #topic Stuck spec reviews | 21:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Stuck spec reviews (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:23 | |
| mikal | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-nova-priorities-tracking | 21:23 |
| mikal | That URL lists some classes of "stuck spec" | 21:23 |
| mikal | (at the end, but the list is long) | 21:24 |
| mikal | I'm not really sure how we progress those in this meeting | 21:24 |
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| mikal | Except for making sure people are aware of them | 21:24 |
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| mikal | For example, I was on that list for a while as blocking things, but didn't realize it | 21:25 |
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| bauzas | right, I missed that | 21:25 |
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| mikal | So, I guess this is mostly just drawing that to people's attention unless we have other ideas for how to progress it | 21:26 |
| claudiub | well, if there is any spec owner, with spec on that list, they should speak up? | 21:26 |
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| bauzas | mmm, most of them are not actually stuck, just waiting reviews | 21:26 |
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| mikal | Yeah, some of it is a search for consistency | 21:26 |
| mikal | For example, what bar are we holding volume drivers to? | 21:26 |
| edleafe | we need another word for "stuck" | 21:26 |
| bauzas | could we just drop the use of word 'stuck' and use 'controversial' instead ? | 21:26 |
| dansmith | contended | 21:26 |
| mikal | edleafe: we need more words for stuck | 21:26 |
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| claudiub | bauzas: +1 | 21:27 |
| mikal | We're like eskimos... We need many words for "lost in code review land" | 21:27 |
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| edleafe | "contented" vs. "stalled" | 21:27 |
| mnestratov | please pay attention to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/184295/ which is about vzstorage support | 21:27 |
| anteaya | inuit | 21:27 |
| edleafe | s/contented/contended | 21:27 |
| * bauzas won't try to provide good wording | 21:27 | |
| mikal | mnestratov: its already on the list | 21:27 |
| mikal | But yeah, you get the idea | 21:28 |
| mriedem | mnestratov: it's not stuck/contended/deadlocked | 21:28 |
| mriedem | mnestratov: address johnthetubaguy's -1 | 21:28 |
| mriedem | let's move on | 21:28 |
| mnestratov | ok. I see. it is ready in cinder and was waiting for CI to be run against nova | 21:28 |
| mikal | I'm looking at the two specs listed in the agenda | 21:29 |
| mnestratov | which is done | 21:29 |
| mikal | And they don't seem particularly stuck to me | 21:29 |
| mikal | So unless someone knows why they're there let's keep going | 21:29 |
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| mnestratov | mriedem: it is addressed | 21:29 |
| mikal | #topic Stable branch status | 21:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Stable branch status (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:29 | |
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| mikal | Anything we need to talk about here? | 21:30 |
| mriedem | stable is fine, icehouse last release is tagged and out for testing | 21:30 |
| mriedem | icehouse should be eol soon | 21:30 |
| mikal | Cool | 21:30 |
| mikal | #topic Gate status | 21:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Gate status (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:30 | |
| mriedem | fine | 21:30 |
| mriedem | http://status.openstack.org/elastic-recheck/index.html | 21:30 |
| mikal | #topic Critical bugs | 21:30 |
| mriedem | there is one thing with the gate, | 21:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Critical bugs (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:30 | |
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| mikal | #undo | 21:30 |
| mriedem | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/192348/ - adds logging for a network race bug | 21:30 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x9be97d0> | 21:30 |
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| mriedem | so eyes on that please since the bug is rare enough to be annoying to track | 21:31 |
| mikal | Ok, I can review that after the meeting | 21:31 |
| mriedem | that's it, thanks | 21:31 |
| mikal | #topic Critical bugs | 21:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Critical bugs (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:31 | |
| mikal | None! | 21:31 |
| bauzas | so, zero/zero | 21:31 |
| mikal | Yay! | 21:32 |
| mikal | #topic Open Discussion | 21:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:32 | |
| mikal | Nothing some items for this on the agenda before we free for all | 21:32 |
| mikal | oslo.config auto config generation is dropped | 21:32 |
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| mikal | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/oslo-config-generator | 21:32 |
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| mikal | Is anyone passionate about this? | 21:33 |
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| dims | mikal: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/180013/ is being held up | 21:33 |
| mikal | Or do we just review the patch for the new oslo way and move on? | 21:33 |
| dims | which is what i'd prefer needless to say :) | 21:34 |
| mikal | dims: yeah, I think this is a call for someone to work with you on getting that patch (or its replacement) through | 21:34 |
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| bauzas | dims: is haypo aware of that one ? | 21:35 |
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| dims | mikal: bauzas: yes i can work with haypo, just need agreement that we can get rid of old generator.py from nova | 21:35 |
| mikal | Its in openstack/common, right? | 21:35 |
| dims | yes | 21:35 |
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| mikal | So I feel that if its been removed from the source of that code (i.e. the cut side of the cut and paste), then we have to do something to get rid of it in nova | 21:36 |
| mikal | That might just take some time as we work out what to do | 21:36 |
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| dims | mikal i can take comments and rework the patch, just want to be clear that old one is going away | 21:37 |
| mikal | I'll take a look at the patch later today | 21:37 |
| mikal | dims: yeah, fair enough. | 21:37 |
| mikal | Other oslo things for liberty... | 21:37 |
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| mikal | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-June/067131.html | 21:37 |
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| mikal | John is asking if anyone wants to run with this on the nova side? | 21:38 |
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| mikal | Ok, final thing from John... | 21:38 |
| mikal | THe next version of nova, liberty-1, will be 12.0.0b1 | 21:38 |
| dims | mikal: i have been doing the oslo work, haypo is starting to help | 21:38 |
| mikal | Which I like because its easy to pronounce | 21:39 |
| mikal | dims: excellent | 21:39 |
| mikal | And with that | 21:39 |
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| mikal | ...Let the open open discussion begin!... | 21:39 |
| dims | i had one, fix for bug 1464381 should it be a bug fix? (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/191095/) or needs a microversion? (spec - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/191151/) | 21:39 |
| openstack | bug 1464381 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "can't get instances from different tenants even if policy.json is set properly for that" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1464381 - Assigned to Davanum Srinivas (DIMS) (dims-v) | 21:39 |
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| dims | sdague was leaning towards bug fix | 21:39 |
| mriedem | dims: i thought sdague said in the spec he didn't think it needed to be a microversion | 21:39 |
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| dims | mriedem: got a contradict from alex | 21:39 |
| mriedem | but it's an upgradeimpact / securityimpact on the fix | 21:39 |
| mriedem | since the policy has to change | 21:40 |
| dims | yes, i added those tags to the bug fix | 21:40 |
| mriedem | well i guess if you look up 'stuck review' we should just have a pointer to this one then | 21:40 |
| mriedem | :) | 21:40 |
| claudiub | We have a spec-less feature parity blueprint. AFAIK, parity bps don't need specs. Was hoping it could be approved? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyper-v-block-device-mapping-support | 21:40 |
| mikal | Are sdague and Alex here now? | 21:40 |
| mikal | We could make them... Talk about it | 21:41 |
| melwitt | dims: I saw alex_xu's comment but don't yet understand it, so I thought some discussion would ensue | 21:41 |
| alaski | I lean in favor of not needing a microversion | 21:41 |
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| dims | alaski: what about v2, need the fix there too | 21:41 |
| mriedem | i also dont think a microversion is warranted here | 21:41 |
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| mriedem | dims: if there is no microversion then it seems legit to fix in v2 also | 21:41 |
| dims | we don't have microversions there | 21:41 |
| mikal | So I think you should say all that on the review | 21:41 |
| mikal | Both of you | 21:41 |
| mriedem | fair enough | 21:42 |
| dims | cool, i'll drop the spec | 21:42 |
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| dims | thanks! | 21:42 |
| mikal | claudiub: now you! | 21:42 |
| claudiub | yeay! | 21:42 |
| mikal | That bp looks trivial to me | 21:42 |
| mikal | Does anyone disagree? | 21:42 |
| mikal | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyper-v-block-device-mapping-support | 21:42 |
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| alaski | not I | 21:43 |
| mikal | I will approve unless someone objects in... | 21:43 |
| mikal | 3... | 21:43 |
| mikal | 2... | 21:43 |
| mikal | 1... | 21:43 |
| mikal | Approved! | 21:44 |
| claudiub | another thingy | 21:44 |
| claudiub | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyperv-storage-qos | 21:44 |
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| claudiub | spec was approved | 21:44 |
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| mikal | Oh, I can fix that now | 21:44 |
| claudiub | actually, mikal approved the spec. :) | 21:44 |
| mikal | Fixed | 21:44 |
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| claudiub | thanks! | 21:45 |
| mikal | Next! | 21:45 |
| mikal | Nothing else? | 21:45 |
| mikal | Can I have 15 minutes back? | 21:45 |
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| * mikal looks hopeful | 21:45 | |
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| mikal | Sounds like I can! | 21:45 |
| mikal | See ya all later | 21:46 |
| claudiub | fine by me. | 21:46 |
| claudiub | o/ | 21:46 |
| mikal | #endmeeting | 21:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:46 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 18 21:46:06 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:46 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2015/nova.2015-06-18-20.59.html | 21:46 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2015/nova.2015-06-18-20.59.txt | 21:46 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2015/nova.2015-06-18-20.59.log.html | 21:46 |
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| vnod | #startmeeting cloudpulse | 23:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 18 23:04:36 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is vnod. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 23:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 23:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cloudpulse)" | 23:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cloudpulse' | 23:04 |
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| vnod | #topic rollcall | 23:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: cloudpulse)" | 23:05 | |
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| sdake_ | o/ pulsing clouds ftw | 23:05 |
| pradeech | o/ | 23:05 |
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| Behzad | Hi | 23:06 |
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| vel_ | HI | 23:06 |
| sdake_ | boy the internet is busted today | 23:06 |
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| vnod | comcast dns down today ? | 23:06 |
| sdake_ | who knows | 23:06 |
| sdake_ | intenet designed to survive nuclear bombs | 23:07 |
| vnod | sdake thanks for help updating blueprints for cloudpulse L1 | 23:07 |
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| sdake_ | you did all the work :) | 23:07 |
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| vnod | welcome vel, shail, Behzad and pradeech | 23:08 |
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| vnod | #topic action-items review | 23:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "action-items review (Meeting topic: cloudpulse)" | 23:08 | |
| vnod | pradeech did you add bp for openstack client ? | 23:08 |
| pradeech | yes. vnod. | 23:09 |
| vnod | we are nearing liberty l1 | 23:09 |
| vnod | 25 th june | 23:09 |
| pradeech | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cloudpulse/+spec/cloudpulse-osc | 23:09 |
| vnod | pradeech thanks | 23:09 |
| sdake | what is an osc | 23:09 |
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| vnod | will you complete it by next week ( I am targetting it for L2) | 23:09 |
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| pradeech | openstack client | 23:10 |
| sdake | oh | 23:10 |
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| pradeech | can someone approve? | 23:11 |
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| sdake | anyone in the drivers team can approve it | 23:11 |
| vnod | pradeech I will review it this week | 23:11 |
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| vnod | moving to next AI | 23:11 |
| vnod | sdake any update on alembic blueprint | 23:12 |
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| sdake | no | 23:12 |
| sdake | no action taken at this time | 23:12 |
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| vnod | ok. rough estimate for bp ? | 23:12 |
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| sdake | i'll file this week | 23:12 |
| vnod | sdake thanks. | 23:13 |
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| sdake | i hope to have finished next | 23:13 |
| sdake | wife going to red hat summit so i am alone on kid duty | 23:13 |
| sdake | so my next week is a little hectic | 23:13 |
| sdake | and release of kolla liberty-1 | 23:13 |
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| sdake | so ymmv :) | 23:13 |
| sdake | oh andreleae of magnum liberty-1 | 23:14 |
| sdake | ya busy week next week :) | 23:14 |
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| vnod | I have kids and I know how it is | 23:14 |
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| sdake | definately file blueprint this week | 23:14 |
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| sdake | also training others on what being a ptl is all about :) | 23:15 |
| vnod | ok. Alembic is not in critical path .. | 23:15 |
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| sdake | good to know | 23:15 |
| sdake | i'll prioritize accordingly | 23:15 |
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| vnod | sdake. yes, it can be done later. | 23:16 |
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| vnod | next AI, system architecture document | 23:16 |
| vnod | I have not made progress on the doc. expecting to have something next week. | 23:16 |
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| vnod | Last AI is for Ajay | 23:17 |
| vnod | he can't join the meeting today, but is making good progress on the operator infra | 23:18 |
| vnod | any questions on AI ? | 23:18 |
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| vnod | #topic blueprints | 23:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: cloudpulse)" | 23:18 | |
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| sdake | vnod quick q | 23:19 |
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| sdake | ar ewe just goin to go over bluerpints needed for liberty1 since liberty 1 is the focus for the next week | 23:19 |
| sdake | because its 4:20, and you know what that means | 23:19 |
| vnod | Yes. All the infra blueprints are complete, the code is upstreamed | 23:20 |
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| vnod | api-tests and test-manager need to be in | 23:21 |
| vnod | for liberty l1 release | 23:21 |
| vnod | api-tests the code is ready but depends on test-manager | 23:21 |
| vnod | I need to file bp for test-manager | 23:22 |
| vnod | Anand will commit the api-tests | 23:22 |
| vnod | any qs ? | 23:22 |
| vnod | ok. moving to new bps | 23:24 |
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| vnod | shail can you file security blueprint ? | 23:24 |
| sdake | hey since we are short on time | 23:24 |
| sdake | can we do the release announcement crafting first | 23:24 |
| sdake | sicne it is higher priority vnod? | 23:24 |
| sdake | liberty - 1 = higher priority then future planning imo :) | 23:24 |
| vnod | sdake ok, lets do release announcement draft | 23:25 |
| Shail | I plan to work on Security Blueprint next week | 23:25 |
| vnod | sdake, can you guide us through the process ? | 23:25 |
| vnod | shail thanks | 23:25 |
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| sdake | vnod link us to the etherpad | 23:26 |
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| sdake | typically yo uwould use etherpad.openstack.org to do the job | 23:26 |
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| sdake | and make a place there, like http://etherpad.openstack.org/cloudpulse-ftw-release-1 | 23:26 |
| sdake | or liberty-1 | 23:26 |
| sdake | lets just use release-1 | 23:27 |
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| sdake | and vnod can adjust accordingly :) | 23:27 |
| sdake | in the upper right hand corner | 23:27 |
| sdake | is where you sign yoru name | 23:27 |
| sdake | click it and put your irc nick in | 23:27 |
| sdake | mine is steak - you can see who is present there | 23:27 |
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| sdake | lets give people a ocupel mins to get logged in | 23:28 |
| sdake | before we go at it :) | 23:28 |
| vnod | yes added | 23:28 |
| sdake | this is the best part about writing software - releasing it :) | 23:28 |
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| sdake | noUser is not reall8y somethig you can put in | 23:29 |
| sdake | put in your nick so we know who did what :) | 23:29 |
| vnod | i have added my nick name | 23:30 |
| sdake | there are other people in the meeting besides me and you :) | 23:30 |
| sdake | apparently there is a nOuSER | 23:30 |
| sdake | wasn't there a couple more cats in the meeting | 23:30 |
| sdake | behzad ? | 23:30 |
| vnod | yes, that was me trying something | 23:31 |
| vnod | but then I added vnod | 23:31 |
| sdake | you can change your color too if you want to get fancy | 23:31 |
| vnod | now the users are signed in | 23:31 |
| sdake | I roll with the color purpe | 23:31 |
| sdake | purple | 23:31 |
| vnod | ok | 23:31 |
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| sdake | ok guys i'm not writing this on my own | 23:32 |
| sdake | start typing | 23:32 |
| sdake | dont be afraid :) | 23:32 |
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| sdake | pradeech use your keyboardp lz :) | 23:36 |
| sdake | this is a group effort | 23:36 |
| sdake | the more brains the better | 23:36 |
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| sdake | pradeech are you hiding on the etherpad | 23:38 |
| sdake | I dont see your color showing up :) | 23:38 |
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| vnod | release note looks good | 23:42 |
| vnod | should we add link for blueprints | 23:42 |
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| sdake | nah dont add notes for bluerpitns | 23:43 |
| sdake | pradeech can you make a contribution plz! | 23:43 |
| sdake | put in our wiki page in the correct place | 23:43 |
| sdake | baby steps :) | 23:43 |
| sdake | vnod can you ping pradeech | 23:44 |
| vnod | looks liek pradeech exited | 23:44 |
| sdake | or did he disappear | 23:44 |
| sdake | internet fail today | 23:44 |
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| vnod | he went for an internal team meeting | 23:44 |
| sdake | oh well loooks like the diveristy of the announcement will not be as great as I hoped :) | 23:44 |
| sdake | vnod can you add the wiki link | 23:45 |
| vnod | done | 23:45 |
| sdake | line 31 needsthe wiki | 23:45 |
| vnod | i have added that | 23:45 |
| sdake | where? | 23:45 |
| vnod | at same line | 23:45 |
| vnod | 31 | 23:46 |
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| vnod | on etherpad | 23:46 |
| sdake | i just clicked refresh | 23:46 |
| sdake | not there | 23:46 |
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| sdake | try clicking the refresh button | 23:46 |
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| vnod | it is there | 23:46 |
| sdake | the wiki link? | 23:47 |
| vnod | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cloudpulse | 23:47 |
| vnod | this is what i added | 23:47 |
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| vnod | now, hit backbutton on browser | 23:47 |
| sdake | sweet | 23:48 |
| vnod | and added wiki again | 23:48 |
| sdake | ok its there | 23:48 |
| vnod | ok | 23:48 |
| sdake | ok well that loooks pretty solid | 23:48 |
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| sdake | making a release announcement is better when the dev team doesn't abandon the process half way throug hthe meeting | 23:48 |
| vnod | thats looks good | 23:48 |
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| * sdake grumbles | 23:48 | |
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| vnod | ok will convey the message across | 23:49 |
| vnod | I will add more features to Liberty 2 | 23:49 |
| vnod | later | 23:49 |
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| sdake | keep is well bounded | 23:49 |
| vnod | basic q | 23:49 |
| sdake | only ahve 5 weeks | 23:49 |
| sdake | ok are we done then, since the meeting attendees are gone :) | 23:49 |
| vnod | how long is the page available | 23:49 |
| sdake | permanently | 23:49 |
| vnod | etherpad link | 23:49 |
| vnod | ok | 23:49 |
| vnod | good. | 23:50 |
| vnod | yes, then we need to just say liberty release instead of liberty 2 | 23:50 |
| sdake | just c&p in your email to the mailing list on the 25th | 23:50 |
| sdake | whatever works :) | 23:50 |
| vnod | ok. cool | 23:50 |
| vnod | thanks sdake | 23:50 |
| vnod | time to leave | 23:51 |
| vnod | have nice eveing | 23:51 |
| vnod | evening | 23:51 |
| sdake | make sure to use #endmeeting | 23:51 |
| vnod | #endmeeting | 23:51 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 23:51 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 18 23:51:15 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 23:51 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cloudpulse/2015/cloudpulse.2015-06-18-23.04.html | 23:51 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cloudpulse/2015/cloudpulse.2015-06-18-23.04.txt | 23:51 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cloudpulse/2015/cloudpulse.2015-06-18-23.04.log.html | 23:51 |
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