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| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 08:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 24 08:00:31 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:00 |
| anteaya | raise your hand if you are here for the third-party meeting | 08:00 |
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| anteaya | #endmeeting | 08:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 24 08:58:25 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-02-24-08.00.html | 08:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-02-24-08.00.txt | 08:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-02-24-08.00.log.html | 08:58 |
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| anteaya | #startmeeting nova-net-to-neutron-migration | 09:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 24 09:00:03 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 09:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 09:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_net_to_neutron_migration' | 09:00 |
| anteaya | hello folks | 09:00 |
| mikal | Hi | 09:00 |
| obondarev | o/ | 09:00 |
| anteaya | hey mikal obondarev | 09:00 |
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| anteaya | gus jlibosva ping | 09:00 |
| anteaya | belmoreira: hello | 09:00 |
| jlibosva | hi | 09:00 |
| gus | hi | 09:00 |
| anteaya | great | 09:00 |
| anteaya | our agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova-nettoNeutronMigration | 09:01 |
| anteaya | let's get started | 09:01 |
| anteaya | #topic the state of the Neutron spec (obondarev) | 09:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "the state of the Neutron spec (obondarev) (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:01 | |
| obondarev | ok, this one will be short :) | 09:01 |
| anteaya | I don't think anything has changed here from last week | 09:01 |
| anteaya | :) | 09:02 |
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| obondarev | as there are no updates on the spec this week | 09:02 |
| anteaya | great | 09:02 |
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| anteaya | anyone have anything on the spec? | 09:02 |
| gus | nothing this week. | 09:02 |
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| anteaya | wonderful | 09:02 |
| anteaya | next | 09:02 |
| anteaya | #topic the state of implementation (obondarev) | 09:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "the state of implementation (obondarev) (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:02 | |
| obondarev | ok | 09:03 |
| obondarev | I saw new patchset on db migration from Jacub | 09:03 |
| obondarev | didn't have a chance to review yet | 09:03 |
| obondarev | jlibosva: can you please give an update? | 09:03 |
| anteaya | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/148260/ | 09:03 |
| jlibosva | yep | 09:03 |
| jlibosva | so I tested the simplest case of migrating flat network | 09:04 |
| jlibosva | realized that flat manager doesn't support floating ips | 09:04 |
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| anteaya | is the patch in a state of non-crashing now? | 09:04 |
| jlibosva | no | 09:04 |
| anteaya | ah | 09:04 |
| jlibosva | Should be able to migrate flat network | 09:04 |
| jlibosva | I obtained a dataset from real nnet deployment with vlans | 09:05 |
| jlibosva | so I'm gonna do some test/debugging for vlan managers | 09:05 |
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| anteaya | sorry I'm going to ask a stupid question | 09:05 |
| * anteaya displays her ignorance | 09:05 | |
| anteaya | is vlan a flat manager? | 09:05 |
| obondarev | jlibosva: can you please add some test instructions to the patch (in a comment) | 09:05 |
| jlibosva | obondarev: yeah, that would be good idea | 09:06 |
| jlibosva | anteaya: vlan is a type of manager | 09:06 |
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| jlibosva | there are three in nova net | 09:06 |
| anteaya | okay | 09:06 |
| jlibosva | flat, flatdhcp and vlan | 09:06 |
| anteaya | ah ha | 09:06 |
| anteaya | okay so no vlan is not a flat manager | 09:06 |
| anteaya | so how do we solve the flat manager situation | 09:06 |
| jlibosva | right | 09:06 |
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| anteaya | as that is the simplest, yes? | 09:06 |
| jlibosva | flat manager is the simplest case | 09:06 |
| jlibosva | right | 09:07 |
| jlibosva | so I'm not sure if anyone is really using this type of manager | 09:07 |
| anteaya | so it sounds like we have solved that yet | 09:07 |
| jlibosva | anyway this should be covered by script nowadays | 09:07 |
| anteaya | haven't | 09:07 |
| mikal | I would think its used in some private clouds | 09:07 |
| anteaya | if it is the simplest to solve, let's solve it | 09:07 |
| anteaya | so what do we need to solve it? | 09:07 |
| jlibosva | well, as I said. I did some tests and it migrates successfully | 09:08 |
| anteaya | oh I thought you said it didn't | 09:08 |
| mikal | anteaya: this might be helpful by the way -- http://docs.openstack.org/admin-guide-cloud/content/section_networking-options.html | 09:08 |
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| jlibosva | did I? maybe typo | 09:08 |
| anteaya | also how did it migrate, as you said the patch still crashes | 09:08 |
| anteaya | mikal: thanks :) | 09:08 |
| jlibosva | anyway, I except to break it once I start implementing the other two :) as we don't have any testing yet | 09:09 |
| jlibosva | anteaya: aaah, sorry | 09:09 |
| anteaya | we seem to hoping all over the place | 09:09 |
| jlibosva | my bad, I read "is patch crashing?" | 09:09 |
| anteaya | does this patchset cause a crash | 09:09 |
| jlibosva | so no, the patch is not crashing | 09:09 |
| anteaya | is the patch crashing? | 09:09 |
| anteaya | okay thank you | 09:09 |
| jlibosva | my apologies | 09:09 |
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| anteaya | and you have tested this patchset in a flat network migration? | 09:10 |
| jlibosva | right, very small one | 09:10 |
| anteaya | can you post any kind of artifact for others to see that it worked? | 09:10 |
| obondarev | I think test instructions should be fine | 09:11 |
| jlibosva | yes, I can push some results somewhere, maybe gist | 09:11 |
| anteaya | jlibosva: that will do | 09:11 |
| anteaya | just for someone else to take a look | 09:11 |
| anteaya | and have you been in contact with spadhe? | 09:11 |
| anteaya | has she had a chance to test your patch? | 09:11 |
| jlibosva | no, I haven't reached her last week | 09:12 |
| anteaya | can you try this week? | 09:12 |
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| anteaya | and you are away for a month starting the end of this week, yes/ | 09:12 |
| jlibosva | anteaya: do you have her email address? | 09:12 |
| anteaya | I don't know, I will check | 09:13 |
| jlibosva | maybe email correspondence will be more sufficient as we have 8 hrs TZ difference | 09:13 |
| jlibosva | or 9 | 09:13 |
| jlibosva | right, I'll be gone since Friday till April | 09:13 |
| anteaya | no, I don't, do you mikal she was at the nova meetup | 09:13 |
| anteaya | okay so let's get this patchset in a state that it can be tested with flat networks for the month of march | 09:14 |
| anteaya | so post some artifacts and any tests you can come up with | 09:14 |
| jlibosva | will do | 09:14 |
| anteaya | and then after you return we can work on getting it working with vlan | 09:14 |
| anteaya | is that fair? | 09:14 |
| mikal | anteaya: sorry, who are we after? | 09:15 |
| jlibosva | ok, I was already working on vlan so I'll see what's missing after tests today. I got the dataset yesterday evening | 09:15 |
| jlibosva | mikal: spandhe | 09:15 |
| anteaya | mikal a yahoo dev named spadhe | 09:15 |
| mikal | anteaya: do you know her real name, I can look her up | 09:15 |
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| anteaya | gus: do you still have a link to her github account? | 09:15 |
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| gus | (looking ..) | 09:15 |
| anteaya | jlibosva: okay that is fine, I just want to make sure we are in a state where we can do something such as test while you are away | 09:16 |
| jlibosva | I see | 09:16 |
| mikal | No one by that name registered for the mid-cycle... | 09:16 |
| anteaya | mikal: hmmm, I saw her there, shame she didn't register | 09:16 |
| jlibosva | maybe https://launchpad.net/~shraddha-pandhe ? | 09:16 |
| mikal | Oh wait, the eventbrite UI defeated me | 09:17 |
| mikal | Please hold | 09:17 |
| anteaya | jlibosva: I think that was it | 09:17 |
| * anteaya imagines hold music | 09:17 | |
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| anteaya | okay so hoping to test the db migration while jlibosva is away | 09:17 |
| anteaya | any more on the db migration patch? | 09:17 |
| mikal | Nup, no one by that name | 09:17 |
| anteaya | mikal: thanks for looking, markmcclain knows her so maybe he can help find her email | 09:18 |
| anteaya | jlibosva: can you ask him? | 09:18 |
| anteaya | so let's move onto obondarev's patch | 09:18 |
| mikal | Yeah, we could also ask Mel Witt if she knows this person | 09:18 |
| anteaya | that too | 09:18 |
| obondarev | ok, moving to nova-net proxy | 09:18 |
| jlibosva | anteaya: ack | 09:18 |
| anteaya | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/150490/ | 09:18 |
| anteaya | jlibosva: thanks | 09:18 |
| obondarev | we had an irc conversation with dansmith on it | 09:18 |
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| obondarev | I think we agreed that it won't be simpler and less messy to proxy at API level | 09:19 |
| anteaya | was taht in the nova channel or neutron? | 09:19 |
| obondarev | so his words were "I don't have any other suggestions other than "don't do it at all"" | 09:19 |
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| anteaya | I could find the logs for it | 09:19 |
| obondarev | anteaya: nova channel | 09:19 |
| anteaya | thanks I'll look again | 09:19 |
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| anteaya | obondarev: don't do what at all, migrate? | 09:19 |
| obondarev | anteaya: proxy | 09:20 |
| obondarev | I guess he still has concerns regarding more complex cases with the approach I'm advocating | 09:20 |
| anteaya | so if we don't proxy, what do we do? | 09:20 |
| anteaya | and what day did this conversation take place? | 09:20 |
| gus | Aha, found it (that took a while): | 09:20 |
| gus | #link https://github.com/shraddha-pandhe/Tools/tree/master/NovaNetToNeutronMigration | 09:20 |
| anteaya | gus: awesome thank you | 09:20 |
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| obondarev | anteaya: let me check.. | 09:21 |
| anteaya | obondarev: thanks | 09:21 |
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| anteaya | because I talked to dan at the nova meeting last week, so I am just trying to figure out who has the most recent information | 09:21 |
| obondarev | anteaya: it was after out conversation | 09:22 |
| obondarev | anteaya: I mean nova meeteng | 09:22 |
| anteaya | oh okay | 09:22 |
| obondarev | anteaya: I read the logs | 09:22 |
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| anteaya | well do finish your thought then | 09:22 |
| anteaya | what do you want to do now? | 09:22 |
| obondarev | anteaya: probably the day before nova meeting | 09:22 |
| anteaya | okay thanks | 09:22 |
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| obondarev | and I'm working on allocate_for_instance case now | 09:22 |
| obondarev | I think this is complex enough to serve some kind of proof | 09:22 |
| obondarev | that the approach is working | 09:23 |
| anteaya | when might you have something to offer to gerrit? | 09:23 |
| obondarev | I'm going to get it ready this week | 09:23 |
| obondarev | I'm sure I'll have much fun with testing :) | 09:23 |
| jlibosva | obondarev: I think allocate_for_instance is being refactored, are you aware of that? | 09:23 |
| anteaya | at the nova meeting, I learned you had talked to dan (thank you for that) and that dan said you were going to offer something this week | 09:23 |
| obondarev | jlibosva: when did that happen? | 09:23 |
| anteaya | which is great, so we agreed to look at what you offered and go from there | 09:24 |
| jlibosva | obondarev: not sure, I talked with Brent ~2weeks ago and he said he was working on some refactoring | 09:24 |
| jlibosva | maybe it will worth to sync with him | 09:24 |
| obondarev | jlibosva: thanks for the info, will look | 09:24 |
| anteaya | obondarev: might you have something by the end of today to look at on gerrit? | 09:25 |
| obondarev | anteaya: I think no | 09:25 |
| anteaya | we are slowing down in momentum, which is understandable since we are in k-3 and core reviewers are tied up with reviews on things that will get into this release | 09:25 |
| obondarev | as it will be part of work, no real value to look and try it | 09:25 |
| anteaya | well except to get feedback | 09:26 |
| anteaya | if you want to continue on this route that is fine | 09:26 |
| anteaya | just keep in mind that we soon need to make a decision if this is going to get into kilo or not | 09:26 |
| anteaya | for other people to make decisions on things | 09:26 |
| obondarev | anteaya: understood | 09:26 |
| obondarev | I'm also going to try Jacub's patch as well as part of testing | 09:27 |
| anteaya | right now it feels to me that it won't and we should just say so and focus on L | 09:27 |
| anteaya | obondarev: good idea | 09:27 |
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| anteaya | are we ready as a group to say refocus on L? | 09:27 |
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| anteaya | it won't change what we are doing, we just need to communicate to others that care | 09:27 |
| jlibosva | +1 for L | 09:27 |
| obondarev | given that even db migration and proxy is only half of work I guess we can say so | 09:28 |
| anteaya | gus: your thoughts? | 09:28 |
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| anteaya | he got pulled away | 09:28 |
| anteaya | okay let's wait for him | 09:29 |
| gus | agree with the above - it will be too much of a stretch to make it into K | 09:29 |
| anteaya | okay L it is | 09:29 |
| anteaya | mikal: you can help communicate that agreement? | 09:29 |
| anteaya | #agreed we will refocus on L release | 09:29 |
| mikal | Sure | 09:29 |
| anteaya | thanks | 09:29 |
| mikal | We can put that on the agenda for the next nova meeting | 09:29 |
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| anteaya | okay so obondarev when do you think you might have something to look at? | 09:29 |
| anteaya | mikal: thanks | 09:30 |
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| obondarev | anteaya: by the next nova meeting? | 09:30 |
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| anteaya | obondarev: it would be nice to have something up prior to that | 09:30 |
| obondarev | anteaya: sorry, when will it be? | 09:30 |
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| anteaya | so folks have had a chance to review before the meeting | 09:30 |
| anteaya | thursday at 2100 I think | 09:31 |
| anteaya | the later of the two times | 09:31 |
| mikal | For nova, yeah | 09:31 |
| mikal | Its the later version this week | 09:31 |
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| obondarev | anteaya: ok, I'll update patch by thursday | 09:32 |
| anteaya | so obondarev please put something up as soon as you are able, so folks can look at it | 09:32 |
| anteaya | okay thank you | 09:32 |
| anteaya | anything more on implementation? | 09:32 |
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| obondarev | not from my side | 09:32 |
| anteaya | okay next | 09:32 |
| anteaya | #topic documentation (emagana) | 09:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "documentation (emagana) (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:32 | |
| anteaya | edgar won't ever make the meetings | 09:33 |
| anteaya | I'm still looking for a docs person to help edgar who will attend meetings | 09:33 |
| anteaya | in the mean time | 09:33 |
| anteaya | the doc patch that edgar has been working on | 09:33 |
| anteaya | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/155947 | 09:33 |
| anteaya | has been put on hold | 09:33 |
| anteaya | docs team is moving from xml to rst | 09:34 |
| anteaya | and wonders if the patch has any use before the guide is published | 09:34 |
| obondarev | and at least the spec is not finished yet | 09:34 |
| anteaya | my main request was to have something for sdague to take to the ops mid-cycle | 09:34 |
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| obondarev | which I guess is a blocker as well | 09:34 |
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| anteaya | but he feels that he can use the spec which has been published so far | 09:35 |
| anteaya | I do need to find out from edgar what the timing is on the guide publication | 09:35 |
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| anteaya | the migration section may not make it into the k release of the guide | 09:35 |
| anteaya | which is fine since the migration code won't | 09:35 |
| anteaya | so for now work on that patch is on hold | 09:36 |
| anteaya | any questions or thoughts? | 09:36 |
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| anteaya | next topic | 09:36 |
| anteaya | #topic testing | 09:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "testing (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:36 | |
| anteaya | so we don't really have anything for this section | 09:37 |
| anteaya | and that is okay | 09:37 |
| anteaya | so we will work on getting folks to test jlibosva's patch with flat network managers | 09:37 |
| obondarev | anteaya: but we now have db migration for flat to test ;) | 09:37 |
| anteaya | anything else we have ready to test | 09:37 |
| anteaya | obondarev: yes! | 09:38 |
| anteaya | anything more for testing? | 09:38 |
| anteaya | #topic Open Discussion | 09:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:38 | |
| anteaya | anyone have anything here? | 09:38 |
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| anteaya | okay | 09:39 |
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| jlibosva | nope | 09:39 |
| anteaya | well thanks everyone for your attendance and participation | 09:39 |
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| anteaya | have a good holiday jlibosva | 09:39 |
| jlibosva | thanks :) | 09:39 |
| anteaya | see you when you return | 09:39 |
| anteaya | see everyone else next week | 09:39 |
| obondarev | thanks everyone | 09:39 |
| anteaya | thank you | 09:39 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 09:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 09:39 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 24 09:39:39 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 09:39 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/2015/nova_net_to_neutron_migration.2015-02-24-09.00.html | 09:39 |
| jlibosva | see you | 09:39 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/2015/nova_net_to_neutron_migration.2015-02-24-09.00.txt | 09:39 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/2015/nova_net_to_neutron_migration.2015-02-24-09.00.log.html | 09:39 |
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| mestery | hi | 13:58 |
| Sam-I-Am | howdy | 13:58 |
| roaet | hiyo | 13:58 |
| jlibosva | hi | 13:58 |
| yamamoto | hi | 13:58 |
| armax | yello | 13:58 |
| marios | o/ | 13:58 |
| carl_baldwin | hi | 13:59 |
| blogan | hi | 13:59 |
| emagana | buenos dias! | 13:59 |
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| amuller | heya | 13:59 |
| rkukura | hi | 13:59 |
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| enikanorov__ | hello | 13:59 |
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| rackertom | o/ | 14:00 |
| emagana | I am barely awake! I am not responsible for my comments!! | 14:00 |
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| mestery | emagana: lol | 14:00 |
| HenryG | o/ | 14:00 |
| ihrachyshka | o/ | 14:00 |
| roaet | +1 | 14:00 |
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| Sam-I-Am | also barely awake | 14:00 |
| pc_m | hi | 14:00 |
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| watanabe_isao | hello | 14:00 |
| mestery | markmcclain salv-orlando dougwig: Courtesy ping | 14:00 |
| mestery | #startmeeting networking | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 24 14:00:55 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking' | 14:00 |
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| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings Agenda | 14:01 |
| mestery | #topic Announcements | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:01 | |
| mestery | We continue our march towards the Kilo release. | 14:01 |
| mestery | Dates of importance: | 14:01 |
| mestery | #info Feature Proposal Freeze: March 5 | 14:01 |
| mestery | #info Feature, String, and Dependency Freeze: March 19 | 14:01 |
| mestery | #info RCs: April 9-23 | 14:01 |
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| mestery | #info Kilo release: April 30 | 14:01 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 14:02 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Kilo_Release_Schedule | 14:02 |
| obondarev | o/ | 14:02 |
| mestery | Any questions on the upcoming Kilo dates? | 14:02 |
| mestery | I encourage people to continue focusing on reviewing code targeted for Kilo-3 | 14:02 |
| mestery | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/kilo-3 | 14:03 |
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| salv-orlando | aloha folks | 14:03 |
| mestery | Any other announcements from anyone? | 14:03 |
| anteaya | o/ | 14:03 |
| dougwig | O/ | 14:03 |
| sc68cal | o/ | 14:03 |
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| mestery | OK, lets move on now | 14:03 |
| mestery | #topic Bugs | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:03 | |
| mestery | enikanorov__: Hi! | 14:03 |
| enikanorov__ | mestery: hi | 14:03 |
| enikanorov__ | not much news on bugs side | 14:04 |
| enikanorov__ | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1421232 | 14:04 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1421232 in neutron "Restarting neutron openvswitch while having broadcast/multicast traffic going into br-tun makes a broadcast storm over the tunnel network" [Critical,Fix committed] - Assigned to Miguel Angel Ajo (mangelajo) | 14:04 |
| enikanorov__ | this one was critical and now committed | 14:04 |
| enikanorov__ | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1323658 | 14:04 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1323658 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "Nova resize/restart results in guest ending up in inconsistent state with Neutron" [Critical,Confirmed] | 14:04 |
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| enikanorov__ | and this still requires someone to dig in | 14:04 |
| mestery | enikanorov__: Is that a new one? Looking now | 14:05 |
| enikanorov__ | not really, it has been hanging in critical for a few weeks now | 14:05 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: suspect it's still another version of "the something went wrong with networking" bug | 14:05 |
| mestery | enikanorov__: Yeah, I moved it out of Kilo-1 and no one has signed up for it yet | 14:05 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: It is indeed | 14:05 |
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| mestery | salv-orlando: Your last comments on it indicated it was a tempest issue not a neutron issue | 14:06 |
| mestery | wait | 14:06 |
| enikanorov__ | salv-orlando: that's what most of us get salary for | 14:06 |
| mestery | that was a different bug | 14:06 |
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| salv-orlando | enikanorov__: are you paid for making neutron now work? | 14:06 |
| anteaya | jogo asked me to help get someone assigned, I hadn't been able to help with that yet | 14:06 |
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| salv-orlando | Or as long as neutron doesn't work, we have job? | 14:07 |
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| anteaya | so thanks for bringing it up enikanorov__ | 14:07 |
| enikanorov__ | salv-orlando: somewhat in between | 14:07 |
| mestery | anteaya: I'll see if I can look into it a bit after the meeting | 14:07 |
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| anteaya | mestery: thank you | 14:07 |
| enikanorov__ | ok, the last one i'd like to mention is | 14:07 |
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| markmcclain | mestery, anteaya: I get the feeling this is going to require pairing between Nova and Neutron devs | 14:07 |
| ajo | I want to mention another one when you finish ;) | 14:07 |
| ajo | hi ;D | 14:07 |
| mestery | markmcclain: Highly likely ;) | 14:07 |
| enikanorov__ | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1359523 | 14:07 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1359523 in neutron "Security group rules errorneously applied to all ports having same ip addresses in different networks" [High,In progress] - Assigned to shihanzhang (shihanzhang) | 14:07 |
| anteaya | markmcclain: fair enough | 14:08 |
| enikanorov__ | this has a patch on review but apparently the author has abandoned it | 14:08 |
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| enikanorov__ | i think this is really important to be fixed in K | 14:08 |
| ajo | hmmm | 14:08 |
| anteaya | markmcclain: if we can get a neutron dev, we can ask jogo to help or help find a nova dev | 14:08 |
| ajo | enikanorov__: I can review that as I'm familiar with the SG code | 14:08 |
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| mestery | ajo: Thank you! | 14:08 |
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| enikanorov__ | ajo: i think we'll need someone to drive code through, not just review it... | 14:09 |
| ajo | enikanorov__, I can talk to hanzhang and drive it myself if he can't | 14:09 |
| enikanorov__ | ajo: wold be great, thanks | 14:09 |
| ajo | :-), sure, np | 14:09 |
| ajo | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1410982 | 14:09 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1410982 in neutron "test_slaac_from_os frequent failures" [High,Confirmed] | 14:09 |
| ajo | This bug is a bit of a mess, | 14:09 |
| armax | another bug that’s hurting is this bug #1424482 | 14:09 |
| openstack | bug 1424482 in tempest "AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'MismatchError'" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1424482 - Assigned to Armando Migliaccio (armando-migliaccio) | 14:09 |
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| armax | mtreinish: ^^^ | 14:10 |
| ajo | it was exacerbated by a patch I submitted, and the original problem I'm unsure if it's still happening | 14:10 |
| salv-orlando | well but 124482 is assigned so I'm not worried ;) | 14:10 |
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| ajo | :-) | 14:10 |
| enikanorov__ | any question on bugs? | 14:11 |
| ajo | for 1410982, I couldn't find current test_slaac_from_os failures not associated to other massive failures | 14:11 |
| mestery | ajo: Looks like 1410982 has a healthy discussion in there between you, carl_baldwin, armax, and others | 14:11 |
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| ajo | so I'm unsure if the bug is valid anymore | 14:11 |
| ajo | but... | 14:11 |
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| ajo | what I couldn't find it, doesn't mean it doesnt exist... may be I'm not proficient enough with kibana (that for sure) | 14:11 |
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| armax | ajo: I’ll look into it, I haven’t had the chance lately though | 14:12 |
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| ajo | armax, thanks, if you could do it, I tried 2 times lately without finding the issue anymore, | 14:12 |
| ajo | btw, | 14:12 |
| ajo | I find the netlink interface errors sometimes in well passed tests | 14:13 |
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| salv-orlando | ajo: that's normal | 14:13 |
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| salv-orlando | it might because it is an API test which spins off some dhcp action as a side effect but does not validate it | 14:13 |
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| ajo | salv-orlando, yes, I found reasonable explanations for that, | 14:13 |
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| mestery | OK, thanks for the updates on bugs enikanorov__ and others! | 14:14 |
| mestery | Any other bugs the team shoudl discuss today? | 14:14 |
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| mestery | If not, we'll move on to ... | 14:15 |
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| mestery | #topic Docs | 14:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:15 | |
| mestery | emagana: Hi! | 14:15 |
| emagana | mestery: Hello! | 14:15 |
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| emagana | The first commit for the nova-net to neutron has been committed | 14:16 |
| mestery | emagana: Matt Kassawara put an item in "On Deman" which I think we shoudl discuss here, so after your update, lets discuss that one. | 14:16 |
| mestery | emagana: Cool! | 14:16 |
| emagana | I will let Sam-I-Am to comment | 14:16 |
| Sam-I-Am | im here, but a little slow | 14:16 |
| mestery | Sam-I-Am: :) | 14:16 |
| emagana | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/155947/ | 14:17 |
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| emagana | Sam-I-Am: Do you want to share about the networking guide | 14:17 |
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| Sam-I-Am | emagana: sure | 14:17 |
| Sam-I-Am | its moving along. i'm trying to fiish the L3HA+OVS scenario... writing it in rst from the start | 14:18 |
| Sam-I-Am | the docs crew has been trying to get rst working for the networking guide | 14:18 |
| amuller | Sam-I-Am: Sounds cool - Add me as a reviewer. Also, you can use information from: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/150918/ | 14:18 |
| Sam-I-Am | once the build system works, we'll try to get the scenarios uploaded into the official repo | 14:18 |
| Sam-I-Am | i am looking for l3ha SMEs :) | 14:19 |
| mestery | Sam-I-Am: Start with amuller :) | 14:19 |
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| Sam-I-Am | thats what i just found out :) | 14:19 |
| Sam-I-Am | we're writing instructions for both linuxbridge and ovs | 14:19 |
| emagana | The rest of the .rst links are on the wiki if anyone is interested in the current work! | 14:20 |
| mestery | emagana: Awesome, thanks! | 14:20 |
| Sam-I-Am | i think thats it for the networking guide. i'll probably try to get more feedback at mid-cycle in a few weeks. | 14:20 |
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| Sam-I-Am | mestery: want me to go on about the other thing? | 14:21 |
| mestery | OK, thanks for the docs updates folks! | 14:21 |
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| emagana | Thanks Sam-I-Am! | 14:21 |
| mestery | Sam-I-Am: Yes, lets move there. | 14:21 |
| Sam-I-Am | i added an on-demand topic about confusion around the location of ovs/linuxbridge agent configuration after ML2 deprecated the plugins | 14:22 |
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| Sam-I-Am | the install guide moved the agent config into ml2_conf.ini | 14:23 |
| ihrachyshka | oh | 14:23 |
| ihrachyshka | I think it's wrong | 14:23 |
| Sam-I-Am | however, i see periodic bugs filed by mostly distro packagers who insist on ising ovs_neutron_plugin.ini and linuxbridge_conf.ini still | 14:24 |
| ihrachyshka | there is still ovs_neutron_plugin.ini file | 14:24 |
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| Sam-I-Am | yes, there is, but it is not for a plugin anymore | 14:24 |
| ihrachyshka | though the name is bad, it's still reused by the agent | 14:24 |
| Sam-I-Am | this causes lots o confusion with newbies | 14:24 |
| ihrachyshka | we can't just rename the file for backwards compat reasons | 14:24 |
| ihrachyshka | yes, we had bugs reported in RDO for that | 14:24 |
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| ihrachyshka | but we stand our ground and use the file for the agent | 14:24 |
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| markmcclain | ihrachyshka: why can't we rename the file for new installations? | 14:24 |
| rkukura | why should the agent config be in the plugin ini file? | 14:24 |
| markmcclain | or sym link? | 14:24 |
| ihrachyshka | since that's where we maintain those conf values in the tree | 14:25 |
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| ihrachyshka | markmcclain, we can. though it opens doors to upgrade issues. we would need to read from both files | 14:25 |
| ihrachyshka | ideally, agents would read from conf-dir, not conf-file | 14:25 |
| Sam-I-Am | the linuxbridge_conf.ini file is a little less misleading, but if we do continue to use separate files, they should have better names (suggestions on the wiki) | 14:25 |
| ihrachyshka | and we would have more freedom with the file names | 14:25 |
| markmcclain | ihrachyshka: yes.. conf dir would be a bit cleaner except that we have overlapping options in some agents | 14:26 |
| ihrachyshka | also, it would help in the world of *aas repos split from main repo | 14:26 |
| markmcclain | ihrachyshka: that said I'm all for conf dir :) | 14:26 |
| ihrachyshka | f.e. before kilo, we read fwaas conf by l3 agent | 14:26 |
| ihrachyshka | but now that we have no guarantees to have fwaas conf installed, we can't | 14:26 |
| ihrachyshka | conf-dir would solve that | 14:26 |
| ihrachyshka | Sam-I-Am, do you see how to handle upgrade for existing users without grenade hook? | 14:27 |
| ihrachyshka | we could obviously rename the file, putting burden on deployers/packagers | 14:27 |
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| ihrachyshka | me being lazy, I vote for leaving as-is, but if people see it a huge problem, ok, let's rename in start of the next cycle | 14:28 |
| ihrachyshka | not now | 14:28 |
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| Sam-I-Am | ihrachyshka: iirc, neutron just concatenates a bunch of config files when it loads | 14:29 |
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| ihrachyshka | so short story, admin guide is currently wrong | 14:29 |
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| Sam-I-Am | you can include anything in the init scripts | 14:29 |
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| ihrachyshka | Sam-I-Am, you need to pass all conf files as --conf-file arguments | 14:29 |
| Sam-I-Am | yes | 14:29 |
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| amotoki | ihrachyshka: what's the difference between we change them now and keep them now in this cycle? | 14:29 |
| ihrachyshka | Sam-I-Am, right, but I'm not sure it plays nice with non-existent files | 14:29 |
| Sam-I-Am | touch the new file and tell people to migrate their config to it? | 14:30 |
| ihrachyshka | amotoki, packagers are not forced to apply yet another change to packaging this cycle which is already beyond normal in terms of disruptions | 14:30 |
| mestery | ihrachyshka: Fair point | 14:30 |
| Sam-I-Am | i'm just trying to fix a repeat confusion problem | 14:30 |
| ihrachyshka | Sam-I-Am, yeah, everything is possible, but reading ml2 conf is just wrong in any case | 14:30 |
| amotoki | ihrachyshka: fair enough. | 14:30 |
| Sam-I-Am | maybe create another config file and let people decide when they move to it? | 14:31 |
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| mestery | Sam-I-Am: I think that woudl lead to more confusion | 14:31 |
| ihrachyshka | + | 14:31 |
| amotoki | in my understanding all of existing conf files are examples and all have default values, | 14:31 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i'm just bringing this up as a pain point | 14:32 |
| Sam-I-Am | it should have been fixed a long time ago | 14:32 |
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| Sam-I-Am | iirc, ubuntu packages dont include an ovs_neutron_plugin.ini file unless you installl the defunct plugin | 14:32 |
| mestery | Sam-I-Am: It's a fair point, lets discuss this offline and see what we can do perhaps. | 14:33 |
| Sam-I-Am | so i have to create it anyway | 14:33 |
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| amotoki | even though most distributions use them as an initial conf files, so I think moving them in upstream tree only affects packagers. | 14:33 |
| ihrachyshka | amotoki, not completely. afaik neutron.conf has state_path defined | 14:33 |
| ihrachyshka | Sam-I-Am, so that's something to fix in ubuntu packaging | 14:33 |
| Sam-I-Am | i have to maintain an install guide for all distros :/ | 14:33 |
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| amotoki | ihrachyshka: right. i know we have some exceptions and hopefully they should be clean-up. | 14:33 |
| Sam-I-Am | mestery: sounds like a good plan | 14:33 |
| mestery | OK, thanks for the discussion here Sam-I-Am! | 14:34 |
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| mestery | Lets move on now. | 14:34 |
| mestery | #topic Plugin Decomposition Status Update | 14:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Plugin Decomposition Status Update (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:34 | |
| mestery | ihrachyshka has offered to provide an update from a packaging perspective here on the changes plugin decomposition will make for packagers. | 14:35 |
| mestery | ihrachyshka: Ready? | 14:35 |
| ihrachyshka | right | 14:35 |
| mestery | ihrachyshka: thanks! | 14:35 |
| ihrachyshka | so I'm packaging neutron for RDO/RHOSP. status on our side is that no vendor libraries are actually packaged. :) | 14:35 |
| mestery | lol | 14:35 |
| ihrachyshka | and that's partly because of no pypi releases | 14:36 |
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| ihrachyshka | there is no clear message from upstream on what is considered to be ready | 14:36 |
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| ihrachyshka | also no clear list that tracks the progress (there is google doc from armax, but that's all) | 14:36 |
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| ihrachyshka | I saw more patches to decomp plugins coming in | 14:37 |
| armax | ihrachyshka: what do you consider something to be ready? pypy release available? | 14:37 |
| mestery | ihrachyshka: I can give you perspective from the decomposed ODL driver. | 14:37 |
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| ihrachyshka | it would be great to have some kind of a list of what's actually ready | 14:37 |
| mestery | ihrachyshka: We're working on a few last bugs before releasing to pypi the first version. | 14:37 |
| mestery | Unsure if others are also fixing bugs before releasing | 14:37 |
| Sukhdev | ihrachyshka: Arista is ready | 14:37 |
| ihrachyshka | armax, right, I would consider pypi release as an indication of library being ready | 14:37 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: You've released to pypi? | 14:38 |
| Sukhdev | mestery: yes | 14:38 |
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| mestery | Sukhdev: Nice work! | 14:38 |
| HenryG | What does "release to pypi" entail? We have 0.0.1 there. | 14:38 |
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| ihrachyshka | cool. that would be great to have some periodic update to downstreams on the progress. | 14:38 |
| armax | ihrachyshka: ok, so it sounds to me that your readiness checklist would be to determine whether for each tracked effort we have a pypi package supplied | 14:39 |
| anteaya | #link https://pypi.python.org/pypi/networking_arista/2015.1.1.dev12 | 14:39 |
| ihrachyshka | HenryG, well, at least something to package. it's better if it actually works. | 14:39 |
| Sukhdev | armax has a list we can use that | 14:39 |
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| anteaya | is having dev in the release name compliant with semver? | 14:39 |
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| mestery | HenryG: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/GerritJenkinsGit#Tagging_a_Release | 14:39 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/GerritJenkinsGit#Tagging_a_Release | 14:39 |
| rkukura | it would seem distros will need some mapping from neutron release (including stable branches) to specific library versions, right? | 14:39 |
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| ihrachyshka | rkukura, I think there is one, per plugin requirements.txt | 14:40 |
| Sukhdev | anteaya: this is the correct one - https://pypi.python.org/pypi/networking_arista/2015.1.1 | 14:40 |
| amotoki | rkukura: i think requirements.txt in plugins/drviers dir should declare it. | 14:40 |
| ihrachyshka | rkukura, they should point to proper versions | 14:40 |
| dougwig | rkukura: the requirements files in the shim directories should have that. | 14:40 |
| dougwig | super jinx | 14:41 |
| ihrachyshka | :) | 14:41 |
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| mestery | lol | 14:41 |
| amotoki | but one question is when we should update requirements in shim plugin dir. version cap? | 14:41 |
| ihrachyshka | amotoki, when we absolutely need it? | 14:41 |
| ihrachyshka | there is one question about vendor split. what do we do with upgrade for existing juno users? | 14:42 |
| mestery | ihrachyshka: ++ | 14:42 |
| rkukura | so if a vendor pushes an update to fix a critical bug in their library, vendors should be able to package that update without a new version of neutron referencing the new version in requirements.txt, right? | 14:42 |
| ihrachyshka | rkukura, right | 14:42 |
| rkukura | 2nd vendors should be distros | 14:42 |
| mestery | rkukura: Yes, neutron doesn't reference the shims, it's the other way around | 14:42 |
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| rkukura | neutron contains the shims | 14:43 |
| ihrachyshka | mestery, though neutron packages may actually reference vendor libs for upgrade purpose | 14:43 |
| mestery | rkukura: replace shims with backends | 14:43 |
| rkukura | mestery: ok | 14:43 |
| mestery | in my comment | 14:43 |
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| mestery | ihrachyshka: Where do they reference the vendor libs? | 14:44 |
| rkukura | so in kili, requirements.txt for a driver will reference a specific backend lib version, right? | 14:44 |
| ihrachyshka | on second thought, if a distro properly splits plugins now into separate packages, then it's fine to add dependencies to vendor libraries | 14:44 |
| rkukura | kilo | 14:44 |
| ihrachyshka | mestery, a openstack-neutron-arista package should depend on vendor lib | 14:44 |
| mestery | ihrachyshka: Got it | 14:44 |
| Sukhdev | ihrachyshka: Please look at Arista directory - there is a requirements.txt in the drivers directory and it is released to pypi - what else needs to be done for it to be picked up? | 14:44 |
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| rkukura | If the vendor updates the backend lib, no change to neutrron is likely needed, except the update to the version in requirements.txt. | 14:44 |
| ihrachyshka | Sukhdev, I think it's done your side, and packagers should start their job. plus maybe there should be some public status update from armax about plugins ready for that. | 14:45 |
| amotoki | rkukura: right. if we have "<x.y.z" in req file, requiremnt upadte is also unnecessary. | 14:45 |
| mestery | amotoki: ++ | 14:46 |
| rkukura | amotoki: ok | 14:46 |
| Sukhdev | ihrachyshka: ah OK - so, time to bug armax :-) | 14:46 |
| armax | ihrachyshka: let’s agree on the degrees of readiness and we can revise the doc\ | 14:46 |
| ihrachyshka | armax, 'it works' and 'it's published somewhere other than git'? | 14:46 |
| dougwig | ugh, pinning may be a necessary evil, but i'd hate to see it become the norm. it means the library sucks at backwards compatibility. | 14:46 |
| armax | ihrachyshka: but it’s probably best to take this offline | 14:46 |
| amotoki | in my understanding requirements fiel in plugins/drives are just reference for packages and users. | 14:46 |
| ihrachyshka | armax++ | 14:46 |
| armax | ihrachyshka: docs too | 14:46 |
| mestery | armax: ++ | 14:46 |
| armax | ihrachyshka: CI, etc… :) | 14:47 |
| mestery | amotoki: I thought so too. | 14:47 |
| armax | ihrachyshka: so it sounds to me we’re reinventing the wheel | 14:47 |
| armax | as to what we need to document :) | 14:47 |
| amotoki | less than 15mins left. do we have more items to discuss? | 14:47 |
| armax | but let’s circle back so that we don’t lose focus on what you and distros really needs | 14:47 |
| mestery | amotoki: Yes, I propose we move on and continue this discussion later. | 14:48 |
| mestery | armax ihrachyshka: Sound ok? | 14:48 |
| openstack-meetin | test | 14:48 |
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| ihrachyshka | mestery++ | 14:48 |
| mestery | #topic nova-network to neutron migration | 14:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "nova-network to neutron migration (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:48 | |
| mestery | anteaya: Want to provide an update for the group? | 14:48 |
| anteaya | sure | 14:48 |
| mestery | anteaya: thank you! | 14:49 |
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| anteaya | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/migration-from-nova-net,n,z | 14:49 |
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| anteaya | so no movement on the spec this week, which is to be expected | 14:49 |
| anteaya | the patch for the db migration works with flat networks | 14:49 |
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| anteaya | is anyone able to test that out and provide some feedback on the patch? | 14:49 |
| *** openstack-meetin has left #openstack-meeting | 14:50 | |
| anteaya | and obondarev is going to have a new patchset for the proxy patch by thursday | 14:50 |
| obondarev | anteaya: I will as part of my tests for proxy patch | 14:50 |
| mestery | obondarev: awesome, thanks! | 14:50 |
| anteaya | also we have agreed that we are refocusing on the L release now | 14:50 |
| anteaya | so we won't be expecting any more merges for K | 14:50 |
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| anteaya | obondarev: great and hopefully we can get some others to test as well | 14:51 |
| anteaya | the more the merrier | 14:51 |
| mestery | #info migration work focusing on Liberty release, no more merges expected for Kilo | 14:51 |
| anteaya | I think that is if for me | 14:51 |
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| mestery | anteaya: Thanks! Any questions from anyone? | 14:51 |
| mestery | OK lets move on | 14:51 |
| mestery | #topic neutron as default in devstack | 14:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "neutron as default in devstack (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:51 | |
| mestery | sc68cal: You're working on this, want to provide an update for the group? | 14:51 |
| sc68cal | Sure | 14:52 |
| mestery | sc68cal: Thanks! | 14:52 |
| sc68cal | Currently I'm just doing some preliminary work on taking PUBLIC_INTERFACE and adding it to the OVS_PHSYICAL_BRIDGE | 14:52 |
| sc68cal | then updating the IP address of the bridge and fixing up the routing table | 14:52 |
| mestery | sc68cal: ++, nice! | 14:52 |
| sc68cal | Bash is not my first, second, or even third language, so please bear with me - it's pretty ugly | 14:52 |
| mestery | sc68cal: We'll grade you on a courve ;) | 14:53 |
| dougwig | It's ugly even when you know it well | 14:53 |
| roaet | dougwig: +1 | 14:53 |
| ajo | +1 :D | 14:53 |
| sc68cal | but I know the way forward - i've done it manually, now it's just automating it | 14:53 |
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| sc68cal | keep an eye on this link https://review.openstack.org/158424 | 14:54 |
| sc68cal | that | 14:54 |
| sc68cal | is it for me | 14:54 |
| mestery | sc68cal: Thanks! | 14:54 |
| mestery | #topic Open Discussion | 14:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:54 | |
| mestery | A note from dims: Dims needs Project Ideas, Mentors for GSoC 2015 | 14:54 |
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| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/GSoC2015 | 14:54 |
| mestery | Go and submit your project ideas! | 14:55 |
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| mestery | Anything else this week from anyone? | 14:55 |
| ajo | final bits of this for this cycle: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/neutron+branch:master+topic:bp/agent-child-processes-status,n,z | 14:55 |
| dims | thanks mestery | 14:55 |
| ajo | mkolesnik and I proposed a total change of the process monitor api | 14:55 |
| anteaya | just a poll | 14:55 |
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| ajo | we thought it would be good before finishing the cycle | 14:55 |
| anteaya | I have been making it clear that driver testing isn't allowed in the gate | 14:56 |
| anteaya | what is neutron's stance on that? | 14:56 |
| ajo | the previous one was totally coupled to ProcessManager... | 14:56 |
| mestery | ajo: Nice! | 14:56 |
| mestery | anteaya: In the Neutron gate? | 14:56 |
| anteaya | is has become a topic of discussion in infra | 14:56 |
| ajo | and also, this is ready for review / merge (if we like it) : https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/neutron+branch:master+topic:bp/refactor-iptables-firewall-driver,n,z | 14:56 |
| anteaya | well the example is cinder | 14:56 |
| anteaya | but anything we do for one project the rest want as well | 14:56 |
| anteaya | so there will be spill over | 14:56 |
| mestery | anteaya: For the open source decomposed plugins, we're doing driver testing for their own stackforge repositories (at least for ODL and soon for OVN as well) | 14:56 |
| ajo | mestery++ | 14:57 |
| ajo | :-) | 14:57 |
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| mestery | anteaya: But for vendor plugins, not so much. | 14:57 |
| anteaya | do you want the opensource plugins in the gate? | 14:57 |
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| anteaya | context: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-February/057472.html | 14:57 |
| mestery | anteaya: Maybe for the neutron gate, it's possible down the road. | 14:58 |
| anteaya | okay thanks | 14:58 |
| mestery | We'll likely discuss this in Vancouver | 14:58 |
| mestery | anteaya: Thanks for bringing it up here! | 14:58 |
| anteaya | I was going with no, but if I'm wrong then speakk up | 14:58 |
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| mestery | OK, anything else in the last 80 seconds? | 14:58 |
| mestery | If not, thanks for everyone's hard work on Kilo! | 14:58 |
| mestery | Lets finish strong! :) | 14:58 |
| amuller | The hard work is ahead of us... | 14:59 |
| ajo | thanks everyone , yes :) | 14:59 |
| mestery | amuller: :) | 14:59 |
| emagana | ciao | 14:59 |
| mestery | #endmeeting | 14:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:59 | |
| rkukura | bye | 14:59 |
| amotoki | :) | 14:59 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 24 14:59:16 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-02-24-14.00.html | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-02-24-14.00.txt | 14:59 |
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| yamamoto | bye | 14:59 |
| armax | bye | 14:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-02-24-14.00.log.html | 14:59 |
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| ajo | hasta la vista ;D | 14:59 |
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| markmcclain | bye | 14:59 |
| n0ano | #startmeeting gantt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 24 15:00:04 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'gantt' | 15:00 |
| n0ano | anyone here to talk about the scheduler? | 15:00 |
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| edleafe | \o | 15:00 |
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| lxsli | o/ | 15:00 |
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| n0ano | edleafe, are you a lefty too or are you just being ironic? | 15:01 |
| PaulMurray | \o/ | 15:01 |
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| edleafe | I'm ambidextrous, actually | 15:01 |
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| n0ano | even better | 15:01 |
| edleafe | write with right hand, mouse with left | 15:01 |
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| n0ano | my mother claims I started life as a lefty and then bowed to peer pressure and switched, before I remember things | 15:02 |
| eliqiao | lefty is smarter then righty :) | 15:02 |
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| eliqiao | s/then/than :) | 15:03 |
| n0ano | eliqiao, arguable :-)\ | 15:03 |
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| n0ano | anyway, let's get started | 15:03 |
| n0ano | #topic Remove direct nova DB/API access by Scheduler Filters | 15:03 |
| edleafe | Only left-handed people are in their right minds! | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Remove direct nova DB/API access by Scheduler Filters (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:03 | |
| n0ano | edleafe, I see you're finally getting all +'s on the spec, anything to talk about it? | 15:03 |
| edleafe | ok, so bauzas finally added his +1 to the spec | 15:03 |
| bauzas | \o | 15:03 |
| edleafe | so I ran it by ndipanov and johnthetubaguy | 15:03 |
| * bauzas waves late | 15:03 | |
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| edleafe | got a +2 from John | 15:04 |
| n0ano | edleafe, saw that, good news | 15:04 |
| edleafe | nick is still reviewing | 15:04 |
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| n0ano | I think it should be approved (finally) shortly so, unless you have anything, we can move on | 15:05 |
| edleafe | Once that spec is approved, the WIP code can be changed to actual reviewable code | 15:05 |
| ndipanov | edleafe, fwiw I don't have +2 on that repo | 15:05 |
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| edleafe | patch series starting at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/149430 | 15:05 |
| ndipanov | edleafe, but am unlikely to protest the spec now... as for the code... :D | 15:05 |
| n0ano | ndipanov, you're not core for Nova? | 15:06 |
| edleafe | ndipanov: I assume you're just being thorough :) | 15:06 |
| ndipanov | I am on nova | 15:06 |
| ndipanov | not on nova specs | 15:06 |
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| ndipanov | that is the job of nova-drivers | 15:06 |
| bauzas | nova-drivers are only +2'ing specs | 15:06 |
| edleafe | ndipanov: ah, I thought you were core for specs, too | 15:06 |
| ndipanov | first among equals | 15:06 |
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| edleafe | guess I'm going to have to bug dansmith | 15:06 |
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| ndipanov | edleafe, yeah | 15:07 |
| * n0ano thinks the beaurocracy is getting a little large | 15:07 | |
| edleafe | n0ano: getting? :) | 15:07 |
| bauzas | n0ano: ssssht | 15:07 |
| ndipanov | thou I think if he sees +1s from me and jay you'd have to bug him a bit less | 15:07 |
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| n0ano | if need be we can bring it up at the nova meeting this week, let's hope we don't have to wait until then | 15:07 |
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| edleafe | ndipanov: but it's fun to bug Dan! | 15:07 |
| ndipanov | n0ano, yathink? | 15:07 |
| ndipanov | edleafe, that it is | 15:08 |
| ndipanov | :) | 15:08 |
| n0ano | OK, let's move on | 15:08 |
| n0ano | #topic Status on cleanup work | 15:08 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, I believe your patches are under control, need any help:? | 15:08 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: bp/detach-services is taking the most of my time | 15:09 |
| bauzas | n0ano: but I'm rushing to provide bp/isolate-sched-db | 15:09 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: bp/detach-service deserves reviews | 15:10 |
| bauzas | n0ano: and bp/isolate-sched-db is WIP | 15:10 |
| bauzas | (once I'll fix all the demands on bp/detach-service) | 15:10 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: bp/requestspec-object is planned to be done on Liberty | 15:11 |
| n0ano | #action review patches for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/detach-service-from-computenode | 15:11 |
| bauzas | because FF is Mar 3rd | 15:11 |
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| edleafe | March 5, no? | 15:11 |
| alex_xu | bauzas: 5? | 15:11 |
| bauzas | edleafe: not exactly | 15:11 |
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| bauzas | branches are done on Thursdays but code has to be merged on Tuesdays in general | 15:12 |
| PaulMurray | johnthetubaguy, said 5th to me | 15:12 |
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| bauzas | that's a matter of trusting Zuul for merging all patches close to a FF | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Kilo_Release_Schedule | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | says 5th March for Feature Proposal Freeze | 15:12 |
| bauzas | I'm usually targeting Tuesdays for deliveries, even if branching is done by Thursdays | 15:13 |
| bauzas | anyway, you got the idea | 15:13 |
| PaulMurray | bauzas, nothing has to be merged - just uyp for review | 15:13 |
| PaulMurray | s/uyp/up | 15:13 |
| n0ano | bottom line, early next week | 15:13 |
| bauzas | yuy | 15:14 |
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| bauzas | eh, hold on | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: there is no branching or tagging for FeatureProposalFreeze, but thats true for FeatureFreeze | 15:14 |
| PaulMurray | bauzas, FF is 19th | 15:14 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: right, I confounded FPF and FF | 15:14 |
| bauzas | so yeah, let's plan to rush on the patches by mid-next week | 15:15 |
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| lxsli | Time for an update from PaulMurray ? | 15:16 |
| n0ano | sure, go for it | 15:16 |
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| bauzas | btw. I'm taking the opportunity here to ask people to amend https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-nova-priorities-tracking and set the correct statuses on their ownerships for Launchpad BPs | 15:16 |
| ndipanov | hey n0ano - I have one patch I hacked to bring up (sorry not following along fully) is it appropriate now | 15:16 |
| ndipanov | after paul that is | 15:16 |
| n0ano | ndipanov, sure, no fast rules here, but PaulMurray has the floor for now | 15:17 |
| PaulMurray | there are a few patches for review here: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bp/make-resource-tracker-use-objects,n,z | 15:17 |
| PaulMurray | I have one ready for review that starts a (small) series on changing compute node to object | 15:17 |
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| PaulMurray | lxsli, has some migration object patches that could do with rebase and work | 15:18 |
| lxsli | those are in a chain, starting with Jay's numa patch going through sahid's | 15:18 |
| PaulMurray | thanks - just havin trouble typing that | 15:18 |
| n0ano | PaulMurray, lxsli do you need help with that rebase/work or are reviews sufficient? | 15:18 |
| bauzas | lxsli: but jaypipes seems to have problems with his own patch | 15:18 |
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| lxsli | yes getting hay's patch merged is prio #1 | 15:19 |
| bauzas | lxsli: so I guess it's impacting your chain, right ? | 15:19 |
| lxsli | he mentioned some issue in nova room, sahid said he'd look at that | 15:19 |
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| bauzas | lxsli: yeah, I understand it but Jenkins seems to be a badass by sending continously red tomatoes | 15:19 |
| lxsli | I'm working on rebasing sahid's patch to master atm so he has an easier time rebasing it onto jay's patch when it's ready | 15:20 |
| bauzas | lxsli: cool | 15:20 |
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| lxsli | I have quite some IRC lag atm so apologies for typos | 15:20 |
| n0ano | lxsli, NP, the typos are minor so far | 15:20 |
| PaulMurray | as https://review.openstack.org/#/c/148904/ is sitting ready it would be good to get it through - it moves a couple of methods around so it tends to get hit by rebases | 15:21 |
| PaulMurray | there are two more follow-ons fro that then compute node will be done | 15:21 |
| PaulMurray | My aim is to get rid of references to conductor api with everything going through objects so online updates can work | 15:22 |
| PaulMurray | Not worry so much about making all the code perfect as it will get changed soon anyway with changes comming to RT | 15:22 |
| PaulMurray | and scheduler etc. | 15:22 |
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| n0ano | PaulMurray, I agree not to worry, we'll just change in future as needed | 15:23 |
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| PaulMurray | But of course, my code will be perfrect.... :) | 15:24 |
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| bauzas | PaulMurray: seen some patches from Hans Lindgren ? | 15:24 |
| bauzas | PaulMurray: lemme find those | 15:24 |
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| n0ano | PaulMurray, so, in general, sounds like you're making good progress, anything else? | 15:24 |
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| PaulMurray | n0ano, actually - been on vacation - so progress will be better than was | 15:25 |
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| bauzas | PaulMurray: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/149224/ | 15:25 |
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| n0ano | vacation - I've heard of that, I should try one sometime :-) | 15:25 |
| bauzas | n0ano: take a French resident passport | 15:25 |
| lxsli | bauzas: that is abandoned | 15:25 |
| bauzas | lxsli: orly ? | 15:25 |
| PaulMurray | bauzas, that's out of date by the look of it - should be abandoned. | 15:26 |
| lxsli | are there others which are active? | 15:26 |
| bauzas | lxsli: indeed, I missed that point | 15:26 |
| PaulMurray | lxsli, oh -your right - is abandoned | 15:26 |
| bauzas | lxsli: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/133663/ also | 15:26 |
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| lxsli | bauzas: because it was covered by one of your patches no less :) | 15:26 |
| bauzas | lxsli: right | 15:27 |
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| bauzas | lxsli: I probably made 15 patches in my series, so I'm sometimes loosing memory | 15:27 |
| PaulMurray | bauzas, thanks - I had better keep an eye out for things comming from left field | 15:27 |
| n0ano | OK, let's move on a bit... | 15:28 |
| bauzas | PaulMurray: I have severe delays in reviewing | 15:28 |
| n0ano | ndipanov, you wanted to say something? | 15:28 |
| ndipanov | ah yes | 15:28 |
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| ndipanov | so I was working on the bug | 15:28 |
| ndipanov | where we don't consider the right flavor for migrating with NUMA | 15:29 |
| ndipanov | https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1370390 | 15:29 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1370390 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "Resize instace will not change the NUMA topology of a running instance to the one from the new flavor" [Medium,In progress] - Assigned to Nikola Đipanov (ndipanov) | 15:29 |
| ndipanov | and came up with this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/158245/ | 15:29 |
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| ndipanov | which kinda steps into request_spec teritory | 15:29 |
| ndipanov | but is only relevant inside the filter code | 15:30 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: right, I quickly reviewed your patch | 15:30 |
| ndipanov | I mean I CAN fix the bug without it | 15:30 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: anyway, I think that we need to rework on the RequestSpec BP, because there was some good comments on the implementation | 15:30 |
| ndipanov | but this would be a nice cheap win for moving all the filters to use flavor objects | 15:30 |
| ndipanov | bauzas, this really makes no assumptions about that other than it will be an object at one point | 15:31 |
| ndipanov | that will expose this one method | 15:31 |
| ndipanov | the reason I need this one method that tells me if the flavor is changing | 15:31 |
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| ndipanov | is that we can tell when we don't need to recalculate stuff | 15:32 |
| ndipanov | like I said - not critical to go this route | 15:32 |
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| bauzas | ndipanov: right, the problem is that we're dehydrating the Flavor object when sending it to the wire | 15:32 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: we should just pass to the Scheduler what we already have | 15:33 |
| ndipanov | yeah that's not a problem for me for now but agreed | 15:33 |
| ndipanov | it should all be objects | 15:33 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: cool that you found a workaround | 15:33 |
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| ndipanov | so basically | 15:33 |
| ndipanov | I'd like a review and ack that this is not insane from sched folks and dansmith if possible | 15:34 |
| ndipanov | but not sure if I can put up the whole series this week since I am a bit swamped | 15:34 |
| ndipanov | if not - ah well, but I think moving to flavor objects in the scheduler with this is an easy win unless I missed an angle | 15:34 |
| n0ano | ndipanov, so you're asking for a review of your patch 158245, right? | 15:35 |
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| ndipanov | well more like - | 15:35 |
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| ndipanov | try to see the approach | 15:35 |
| ndipanov | and tell me if it;s OK to land it for a bugfix | 15:35 |
| ndipanov | and get some refactoring early and cheap | 15:35 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: ack, will give you my voice | 15:36 |
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| ndipanov | next patch in that series moves all use of flavor in filters to objects | 15:36 |
| n0ano | at this point I am hesitant about refactoring at this late stage in Kilo, even if it's easy | 15:36 |
| ndipanov | but still failing tests so not posted | 15:36 |
| ndipanov | n0ano, that is reasonable | 15:36 |
| * PaulMurray has to drop off now - sorry | 15:36 | |
| bauzas | ndipanov: +1 | 15:36 |
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| n0ano | PaulMurray, NP, just read the logs | 15:36 |
| ndipanov | but we;re still not that late from priorities pov | 15:37 |
| ndipanov | so think about it | 15:37 |
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| n0ano | ndipanov, OK, we'll check it out | 15:37 |
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| n0ano | moving on... | 15:37 |
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| n0ano | #topic opens | 15:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:37 | |
| n0ano | anything new for today? | 15:38 |
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| n0ano | hearing crickets... | 15:38 |
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| bauzas | I got one | 15:39 |
| n0ano | bauzas, go ahead | 15:39 |
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| bauzas | basically, restating what I said in the crowd | 15:39 |
| bauzas | (16:16:28) bauzas: btw. I'm taking the opportunity here to ask people to amend https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-nova-priorities-tracking and set the correct statuses on their ownerships for Launchpad BPs | 15:39 |
| bauzas | ie. NeedsCodeReview, Slow Progress or In Progress | 15:40 |
| n0ano | bauzas, +1 | 15:41 |
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| n0ano | anything else? | 15:41 |
| bauzas | nothing really much | 15:42 |
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| n0ano | OK, so, as always, lots of reviews needed, everyone sharpen your pens and we'll talk next week. | 15:42 |
| n0ano | tnx for attending | 15:42 |
| n0ano | #endmeeting | 15:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:42 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 24 15:42:40 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:42 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-02-24-15.00.html | 15:42 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-02-24-15.00.txt | 15:42 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-02-24-15.00.log.html | 15:42 |
| * bauzas grabbing popcorn for reading the ML | 15:42 | |
| edleafe | bauzas: I'd recommend strong coffee :) | 15:43 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: I'm already at my 4th of the day | 15:43 |
| bauzas | and it's 4.40pm | 15:43 |
| n0ano | bauzas, he said `strong`, not lots | 15:43 |
| bauzas | that would be my 5th, severe hits expected | 15:43 |
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| * bauzas trying not to turn into a psychopath | 15:44 | |
| edleafe | bauzas: too late | 15:45 |
| edleafe | :) | 15:45 |
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| boris-42 | #startmeeting Rally | 17:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 24 17:04:54 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is boris-42. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rally' | 17:04 |
| boris-42 | msdubov_: rvasilets__ ping | 17:05 |
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| boris-42 | meteorfox: ping | 17:05 |
| msdubov_ | boris-42:hi! | 17:05 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: hi | 17:05 |
| rvasilets__ | hi | 17:06 |
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| boris-42 | let's wait for others | 17:07 |
| msdubov_ | ok | 17:07 |
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| boris-42 | amaretskiy: ping | 17:08 |
| amaretskiy | hi | 17:08 |
| boris-42 | okay let's start | 17:08 |
| amaretskiy | sorry for my being late | 17:08 |
| boris-42 | #topic Weekly updates | 17:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Weekly updates (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:09 | |
| boris-42 | We removed ALL oclo-incubator code WOOT | 17:09 |
| msdubov_ | -3K SLOC! | 17:09 |
| boris-42 | We add bunch of tests related to NovaKeyPairs | 17:09 |
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| boris-42 | I fixed a quite nasty bug related to warnings (we shouldn't display any warnings in commands that prints ouput in special format json/...) | 17:10 |
| meteorfox | nice | 17:10 |
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| meteorfox | also I saw, the *aas is out too? | 17:11 |
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| meteorfox | was that part of the oclo-incubator code? | 17:11 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: let's disccuss this a bit later | 17:11 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: let me just finish overview=) | 17:11 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: and then this will be first topic | 17:11 |
| meteorfox | alright sounds good | 17:12 |
| boris-42 | So we add new script for Rally gates it's written in python and supprots tags | 17:12 |
| boris-42 | Which will allow to use one job with multple tasks | 17:12 |
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| boris-42 | that are testing keystone v3 / with existing users / various version of python | 17:13 |
| boris-42 | and so on | 17:13 |
| boris-42 | As well we set jobs for Mirantis OpenStack | 17:13 |
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| boris-42 | and now we are testing every patch against *real* deployment | 17:13 |
| boris-42 | multinode=) | 17:13 |
| boris-42 | so we will be able to test VM migration stuff | 17:14 |
| boris-42 | in gates | 17:14 |
| boris-42 | So we are going to cut version 0.0.2 of Rally during this week | 17:14 |
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| boris-42 | Okay let's discuss in details | 17:14 |
| boris-42 | #topic Rally AAS stuff | 17:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rally AAS stuff (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:15 | |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: hey | 17:15 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: hey | 17:15 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: so that AAS code was non working | 17:15 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: it was written in pecan | 17:15 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: and used oslo-incubator | 17:15 |
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| boris-42 | we decided to chose another direction | 17:15 |
| boris-42 | use flask | 17:15 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: ah I see | 17:15 |
| boris-42 | and make AAS on top of rally.api | 17:15 |
| boris-42 | like a smart* code that adds 1-1 aas on top of rally.api | 17:16 |
| boris-42 | msdubov_: refactored it a bit | 17:16 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/rally/api.py so we will continue this work | 17:16 |
| meteorfox | awesome | 17:16 |
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| boris-42 | meteorfox: so the idea is to avoid duplication of code | 17:17 |
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| meteorfox | boris-42: awesome, this looks good. I'm exited for this feature | 17:17 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: as well to reuse rally.cmd for bot (rally as cli tool and rally as a service) | 17:17 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: you can help and work on it) | 17:17 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: :) sure | 17:18 |
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| boris-42 | so let's to move to next topics | 17:19 |
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| boris-42 | #topic new constant runner | 17:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "new constant runner (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:19 | |
| boris-42 | msdubov_: any news ? | 17:19 |
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| msdubov_ | boris-42 yes | 17:19 |
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| msdubov_ | I believe I have written all the unit tests I wanted for the patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/155225/ | 17:19 |
| msdubov_ | And it's no longer a WIP-patch | 17:20 |
| msdubov_ | So boris-42 amaretskiy redixin You're welcome to review & test it | 17:20 |
| amaretskiy | ok | 17:20 |
| msdubov_ | I have also removed a functional test that checked that the number of iterations always grows | 17:20 |
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| msdubov_ | Because actually with the constant runner it may be the case that the iteration No. (i+1) starts before iteration No. i | 17:21 |
| msdubov_ | (Not actually starts, but is logged) | 17:21 |
| msdubov_ | So the iteration numbers in logs are not always strictly increasing | 17:21 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov_: yep they are not | 17:22 |
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| msdubov_ | boris-42: it seems though that for the RPS runner they are often in-order :) | 17:22 |
| msdubov_ | boris-42:Just an observation | 17:22 |
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| msdubov_ | boris-42: Basically that's it for the constant runner | 17:23 |
| msdubov_ | the constant for duration runner, as discussed, will be modified later | 17:23 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov_: ok | 17:23 |
| boris-42 | msdubov_: I will try to review it | 17:23 |
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| boris-42 | #topic Murano patches | 17:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Murano patches (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:23 | |
| boris-42 | rvasilets__: hey hey | 17:23 |
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| rvasilets__ | Hi | 17:24 |
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| rvasilets__ | How i have separating from Murano base another patch its about refactor ImageGenarator and Validation | 17:25 |
| rvasilets__ | Just Murano stuff is okey now and its only wait to be separated from ImageGenerator | 17:26 |
| rvasilets__ | eom | 17:26 |
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| boris-42 | rvasilets__: okay I hope you will separate it soon | 17:27 |
| rvasilets__ | I hope too | 17:27 |
| boris-42 | rvasilets__: it acutally doens't require any code changes | 17:27 |
| boris-42 | rvasilets__: just git 80lvl skills | 17:27 |
| boris-42 | =) | 17:27 |
| rvasilets__ | yes, just copy paste | 17:27 |
| boris-42 | rvasilets__: no there is no need to copy paste =( | 17:27 |
| rvasilets__ | and delete) | 17:27 |
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| boris-42 | rvasilets__: nope.. | 17:27 |
| boris-42 | rvasilets__: I will tell you how to do it after meeting | 17:28 |
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| boris-42 | okay let's move to next topic | 17:28 |
| boris-42 | #topic Scalable graphs | 17:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Scalable graphs (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:28 | |
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| boris-42 | amaretskiy: how is your patch? realted to graphs? | 17:28 |
| amaretskiy | last week i removed WIP from https://review.openstack.org/#/c/146814/ | 17:28 |
| amaretskiy | this patch is working | 17:28 |
| amaretskiy | however today it appeared in merge conflict | 17:29 |
| amaretskiy | so I'm going to fix conflict + fix some tests (reviewed) tomorrow | 17:29 |
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| amaretskiy | so reviews are welcome | 17:29 |
| amaretskiy | also there are >1k loc | 17:29 |
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| amaretskiy | so maybe i should split thi spatch | 17:30 |
| amaretskiy | into 2 parts? | 17:30 |
| amaretskiy | what do you think? | 17:30 |
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| boris-42 | amaretskiy: I think it will be great | 17:31 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: to split it to 2 parts | 17:31 |
| amaretskiy | okay | 17:31 |
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| amaretskiy | agreed | 17:31 |
| amaretskiy | eom | 17:31 |
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| boris-42 | amaretskiy: maybe as first step is deleting chart/histogram | 17:32 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: and moving it to charts (with refactoring) + tests | 17:32 |
| amaretskiy | this is not a simple question | 17:32 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: it iwll help a lot | 17:32 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: why it is not simple question? it will be simple to do | 17:32 |
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| amaretskiy | i think sthis split should not take a lot of time, but i do not see if this possible | 17:33 |
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| amaretskiy | i will consider if it is possible to split thi spatch with minimal work | 17:33 |
| amaretskiy | maybe it is a good idea to just add new charts classes + tests | 17:34 |
| amaretskiy | without touching plot.py at all | 17:34 |
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| amaretskiy | since charts/histogram.py is completely rewritten | 17:35 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: yep you can make first charts | 17:35 |
| amaretskiy | so i guess the first patch will simply add new charts classes | 17:35 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: with tests | 17:35 |
| amaretskiy | yes | 17:35 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: and the remove old processing stuff and switch to new charts | 17:35 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: yep that makes sense | 17:35 |
| amaretskiy | sure | 17:35 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: okay let' move to next stuff | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | #topic Rally Plugins | 17:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rally Plugins (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:36 | |
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| boris-42 | Okay I am working on unification of plugins | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | Finally I start seeing full picture | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | so I am going soon to push new patch | 17:36 |
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| boris-42 | that changes plugin base | 17:37 |
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| boris-42 | and allow to make from functions plugins | 17:37 |
| boris-42 | so this thing was the very last blocking thing that I didn't know how to resolve | 17:37 |
| boris-42 | as well I won't touch bese.context() | 17:37 |
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| boris-42 | and instead of removing name I will just call plugin decorator inside it | 17:37 |
| boris-42 | so at least scenarios, context will be backward compbale | 17:38 |
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| boris-42 | SLA stuff have to be refactored one more time | 17:38 |
| boris-42 | as well runners, deploy engines and server provides | 17:38 |
| boris-42 | but as far as I know nobody is writing those plugins so it's not a big deal to change them | 17:39 |
| boris-42 | After we switch to plugin base I will work on moving validation mechanism to plugin Base | 17:39 |
| boris-42 | this will allow us to use the same validation mechanism for all plugins that we have | 17:39 |
| msdubov_ | boris-42, What will be the changes to SLA? | 17:40 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov_: I will introduce @sla decorator | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | msdubov_: and remove option_name | 17:40 |
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| msdubov_ | boris-42: okay, thanks | 17:41 |
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| boris-42 | so okay | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | #topic Open Discussion | 17:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:43 | |
| boris-42 | anybody wants to discuss anything? | 17:43 |
| amaretskiy | no | 17:43 |
| meteorfox | no | 17:43 |
| msdubov_ | nope | 17:43 |
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| rvasilets__ | no | 17:44 |
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| boris-42 | Okay I don't have as well =) | 17:45 |
| boris-42 | Have a nice day=) | 17:45 |
| boris-42 | #endmeeting | 17:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:45 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 24 17:45:34 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:45 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-02-24-17.04.html | 17:45 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-02-24-17.04.txt | 17:45 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-02-24-17.04.log.html | 17:45 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, ayoung, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, nkinder, lloydm, shrekuma, ksavich, hrybacki, rharwood, grantbow, vdreamarkitex, raildo, rodrigods, amakarov, ajayaa, hogepodge, breton, lhcheng, nonameentername, samueldmq, htruta, amolock, wanghong | 17:58 |
| morganfainberg | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 17:58 |
| morganfainberg | It's that time again :) | 17:58 |
| rodrigods | o/ | 17:58 |
| ayoung | Weee! | 17:58 |
| morganfainberg | (Will start about 2mins late fyi) | 17:58 |
| amakarov | o/ | 17:58 |
| raildo_away | o/ | 17:59 |
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| stevemar | o/ | 17:59 |
| marekd | Welcome | 17:59 |
| dstanek | o/ | 17:59 |
| stevemar | \o/ | 17:59 |
| lbragstad | hey | 17:59 |
| lhcheng_afk | o/ | 17:59 |
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| * lbragstad is ready for Vancouver | 18:00 | |
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| jogo | o/ | 18:00 |
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| marekd | lbragstad: how come? | 18:00 |
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| henrynash | hi | 18:01 |
| morganfainberg | I'm getting coffee. Will be starting a minute or so more before we start. | 18:01 |
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| lbragstad | marekd: itchin' for a summit! | 18:01 |
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| marekd | :D | 18:01 |
| samueldmq | o/ | 18:01 |
| marekd | what's that 'short lived feature branch' ? | 18:01 |
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| morganfainberg | Ok | 18:02 |
| morganfainberg | Welcome! | 18:02 |
| morganfainberg | #startmeeting keystone | 18:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 24 18:02:33 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is morganfainberg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:02 |
| morganfainberg | Morning all! | 18:02 |
| marekd | yeah..morning :-) | 18:03 |
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| morganfainberg | Going to get started wth the agenda and then move on to things like what bps we need to push to liberty. | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Using short lived feature branchs | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Using short lived feature branchs (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:03 | |
| morganfainberg | jogo: o/ | 18:04 |
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| jogo | morganfainberg: you want to explain it? most of the notes are in the agenda | 18:04 |
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| morganfainberg | I'm going to let you present it. You did a great job summarizing it yesterday. | 18:05 |
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| jogo | sure | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | The notes are there. But just a quick summary and then open for discussion. | 18:05 |
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| * morganfainberg drinks coffee. | 18:05 | |
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| jogo | quick summary: a keystone-core can sponsor the creation of a feature branch for a blueprint | 18:06 |
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| jogo | the big difference with what happened previously with HMT is, the keystone core sponsor can nominate anyone they want to be core on the feature branch | 18:06 |
| morganfainberg | This is a new concept to try, btw. So, open comments on it as well. | 18:06 |
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| morganfainberg | Before we try it that is. | 18:07 |
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| jogo | so the standard 2 +2 applies to the feature branch, except one of the +2s can come from a feature-branch core | 18:07 |
| ayoung | Once the feature branch is "complete" it takes standard core to merge as per normal | 18:07 |
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| rodrigods | I have one question: how the branch rebase against master will work? In a regular feature branch we'd need to ask a specific group to perform it | 18:07 |
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| dstanek | interesting - so a +2 from a core and a +2 from someone else? | 18:07 |
| jogo | ayoung: yup, although the merge review should not be a full code review | 18:07 |
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| lbragstad | the other +2 has to be a core on the feature branch though, right? | 18:08 |
| marekd | jogo: one +2 who can be a master in tat particular topic, but no necessaarilly is a Keystone core, right? | 18:08 |
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| jogo | lbragstad: or a regular keystone core | 18:08 |
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| ayoung | and then we do a merge of the feature branch, not just a rebase | 18:08 |
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| jogo | marekd: yes, so instead of requiring two keystone core +2s, the feature branch patches require one keystone-core +2 and another +2 | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | rodrigods: any feature branch core or keystone core can do the merge from master to the topic branch , but that is a documentation / training thing to help make that easy | 18:08 |
| lbragstad | so are we intending that this process takes place of our experimental phase? | 18:08 |
| amakarov | interesting concept, so we want branch-owners to compete for core'ship in the future :) | 18:09 |
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| morganfainberg | lbragstad: no. | 18:09 |
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| morganfainberg | lbragstad: this would be to land the code initially. Nothing else changes. | 18:09 |
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| dstanek | i think this is probably a good idea, but we need to be careful at first | 18:10 |
| jogo | the motivation here, is to empower people who keystone-core considers domain experts and trusts them, but who don't have enough bandwidth general keystone knowledge to be a full keystone-core at the moment | 18:10 |
| lbragstad | does every spec have to follow this criteria? | 18:10 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: merge (final) to master is keystone-core only. | 18:10 |
| jogo | lbragstad: no, this is a new idea and I am looking for a guinea pig | 18:10 |
| lbragstad | jogo: ok | 18:10 |
| marekd | jogo: makes sense. | 18:10 |
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| raildo_away | jogo I dont like this term :( haha | 18:11 |
| stevemar | what the kind of work that would be proposed to a feature branch? | 18:11 |
| rodrigods | jogo, makes sense. [2] | 18:11 |
| jogo | feature branches don't make sense for things that: touch a lot of code all over the place (rebase hell) etc | 18:11 |
| ayoung | jogo, you just ruled out Keystone | 18:11 |
| lbragstad | I think that work flow worked well with the HTM stuff because the people maintaining it stayed on top of it | 18:11 |
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| marekd | stevemar: HTM for instance I think | 18:11 |
| jogo | ayoung: so morganfainberg had a blueprint in mind | 18:11 |
| rodrigods | the problem with the HMT feature branch was mainly the lack of reviews | 18:11 |
| morganfainberg | The ae token work would be a great target (if we had this concept earlier). Ae token will not use this though. | 18:11 |
| rodrigods | so it took too long to start merging | 18:11 |
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| rodrigods | so this short term feature branch seems a nice approach to try to improve this | 18:12 |
| amakarov | rodrigods, ++ | 18:12 |
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| raildo | rodrigods, ++ | 18:12 |
| morganfainberg | But the kind of work that ae token is, relatively isolated is the type of work that this makes sense for. The hmt reseller stuff might be a good one as well. | 18:12 |
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| rodrigods | who are the keystone-cores interested in working in it? | 18:13 |
| amakarov | we need criteria how not to drown in a heap of branches | 18:13 |
| rodrigods | (reseller) | 18:13 |
| lbragstad | amakarov: ++ | 18:13 |
| jogo | amakarov: well for now the idea is to just try this once and see how it goes | 18:13 |
| dstanek | jogo: so just pick one new feature branch for the initial process? | 18:14 |
| marekd | like hmt | 18:14 |
| jogo | dstanek: yup | 18:14 |
| amakarov | jogo, I think we need at least 2, better 3 branches to see how it'll go and, more important - merge | 18:15 |
| ayoung | Keystone client policy work | 18:15 |
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| dstanek | i don't see any reason not to try this then; we can just be extra careful on the merge for those that would be worried | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: ++ | 18:15 |
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| ayoung | access info | 18:15 |
| jogo | amakarov: well just because one works doesn't mean its a good idea. but figure starting with 1 branch and take it slow | 18:15 |
| ayoung | lets do this in the client | 18:15 |
| rodrigods | this would worked with assignments split too | 18:15 |
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| ayoung | yep...would have | 18:16 |
| lbragstad | jogo: have some other projects started this workflow? | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | rodrigods: unfortunately no. Touched too much stuff. | 18:16 |
| jogo | lbragstad: no, your the first :) | 18:16 |
| lbragstad | \o/ | 18:16 |
| amakarov | jogo, ++ for step-by-step approach | 18:16 |
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| morganfainberg | So the biggest concern with using a keystone server bp is we are 10 days from milestone. So I think we can't do it with server this cycle. | 18:16 |
| marekd | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:17 |
| rodrigods | :( | 18:17 |
| ayoung | Client makes more sense anyway | 18:17 |
| amakarov | jogo, I just want to remind that 1 branch is not enough to approve entire concept - it's just 1st step | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | jogo: but we can do client/middleware easily. | 18:17 |
| jogo | morganfainberg: good idea | 18:17 |
| rodrigods | policy stuff | 18:17 |
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| rodrigods | ^ | 18:17 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, anything you can think of that would make a good topic branch in client? | 18:18 |
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| jamielennox | ayoung: i have a whole bunch of splitting up auth_token middleware that is isolated and in queue - it's fairly trivial though | 18:18 |
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| lbragstad | that sounds like a good candidate... | 18:19 |
| rodrigods | k2k support? | 18:19 |
| dstanek | we would need something that is being worked on my a non-core. do we have anything like that in the client? | 18:19 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek: ++ | 18:19 |
| jamielennox | there is some HMT stuff that i need to get back to reviewing | 18:20 |
| breton | Alembic ;) | 18:20 |
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| lbragstad | ayoung: was there anyone else driving the access info stuff? | 18:20 |
| breton | I think there will be 4-5 patches regarding it | 18:20 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, it was under pressure from morganfainberg , but he hasn't been actively coding it | 18:20 |
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| morganfainberg | Also if someone wants to do the sql migration collapse this cycle besides me, that can land post k3 and might be a good candidate for this. | 18:20 |
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| breton | o/ | 18:21 |
| * breton wants | 18:21 | |
| ayoung | I'd be willing to hand over +2 on the access info to at least one non core | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: yes. We still need it but we are addressing the klwt first. | 18:21 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung: but that is still really important. | 18:21 |
| lbragstad | ayoung: I thought david8hu was waiting on that stuff for the token provider cleanup stuff | 18:21 |
| ayoung | yes, he is | 18:22 |
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| morganfainberg | So it doesn't make sense unless there is more than 1 non-core interested as well. If 1-non core is coding it and no one else is interested, we are limited back to core reviewers only. | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | But I think we have some candidates to work from. | 18:23 |
| rodrigods | ++ | 18:24 |
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| lbragstad | is there going to be a rebase criteria or is it just as the committer sees fit? | 18:24 |
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| morganfainberg | It will need to be in sync with master before t can be merged back in. Frequent rebase/ / syncs make that easier, but it would be up to the branch core team to determine. | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | Since merge commits still need review. | 18:25 |
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| morganfainberg | Remember ff-only does not work to sync things. | 18:25 |
| rodrigods | morganfainberg, having it in the reseller stuff would somehow ease our internal process here, but we have the milestone concern | 18:25 |
| marekd | rodrigods: you are a big team. | 18:26 |
| marekd | and could more work face2face | 18:26 |
| rodrigods | marekd, ++ | 18:26 |
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| morganfainberg | rodrigods: correct and that is why I don't want to push it for server topics. 10 days is very limited. But I'd be willing to let it be used if you guys feel confident about it. | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | But I want to be clear we aren't jeapordiIng that code for this cycle based on trying this out. | 18:26 |
| ayoung | lets stick to client for now | 18:27 |
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| ayoung | and use it for the server in LizardLove | 18:27 |
| amakarov | ayoung, ++ | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: sure. We should have a lot more lead time on features with an earlier spec proposal time. | 18:27 |
| rodrigods | morganfainberg, yes, I'm just not that confident that it would merge if stayed in master as well :) | 18:27 |
| rodrigods | anyway... | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | We could do this for the hmt pieces of client as well (if any are still needed) | 18:28 |
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| morganfainberg | Which still puts a larger team in the driver seat for tying this out. | 18:28 |
| marekd | client is mostly about auth, and big parts we move to separate repos (like kerberos, federation etc) | 18:28 |
| rodrigods | morganfainberg, there is a couple of changes under review from the first HMT steps | 18:28 |
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| morganfainberg | marekd: yeah I'm fighting pypi on that atm. Something is broken. | 18:29 |
| rodrigods | marekd, I think k2k auth support would be nice | 18:29 |
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| rodrigods | and could be a nice candidate for the feature branch | 18:29 |
| marekd | rodrigods: we have keystoneclient_federation repo and this would very likely go there. | 18:29 |
| rodrigods | marekd, ahh, true | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | marekd: ++ | 18:29 |
| marekd | well...we could add a feature branch in ksc_fdr but... | 18:29 |
| stevemar | rodrigods, yeah we are missing a few bits for k2k support for ksc(-fed) | 18:29 |
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| morganfainberg | jogo: sorry this is hard to figure out the best starting one ;). Since we have to eliminate keystone server. Unless we pick something like the testing spec. | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | That can land post k3 | 18:30 |
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| jogo | morganfainberg: no worries, the timing for trying this idea is not ideal | 18:31 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, I'll volunteer the access info for the client. Can we accept that and move on? | 18:32 |
| jamielennox | the problem is there are generally not that many long running branches on client or middleware | 18:32 |
| ayoung | especially if it means I get more eyes | 18:32 |
| lbragstad | we need another non core who is interested in it thought, right? | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: find some non-cores interested and we can use that | 18:32 |
| rodrigods | ayoung, morganfainberg you can add me | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | Anyway I think we will need to look over some options and get back to you jogo For sure in liberty we will look at this for server. | 18:33 |
| ayoung | david8hu, you here? | 18:33 |
| jogo | morganfainberg: sounds like a solid plan | 18:33 |
| ayoung | rodrigods, thanks | 18:33 |
| david8hu | I am here | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | Provided we don't have anything craaaaazy happen before that that makes this an awful idea. | 18:33 |
| ayoung | david8hu, we want to do a topic branch for access info. Interested in being able to review it | 18:33 |
| ayoung | ? | 18:33 |
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| david8hu | Yes, I can help review it. | 18:34 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, there you go | 18:34 |
| ayoung | make those two core, and I can post code, too | 18:34 |
| ayoung | or...topic-core? | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | Ok so moving on (will circle up with jogo after the meeting on this) | 18:34 |
| ayoung | whatever the term is | 18:34 |
| ayoung | topicore | 18:34 |
| ayoung | Manticore | 18:35 |
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| morganfainberg | #topic pushing bps / specs to liberty and beyond | 18:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "pushing bps / specs to liberty and beyond (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:35 | |
| morganfainberg | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/kilo-3 | 18:35 |
| ayoung | backlog all the specs | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | So we have things that are really unlikely to land. | 18:35 |
| ayoung | I think we should drop the juno. kilo subdirs | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: no. | 18:36 |
| ayoung | and ju8st have all specs submitted to keystone. It will keep the urls consistent | 18:36 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, yes | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: no | 18:36 |
| ayoung | let me finish | 18:36 |
| marekd | there are some specs moved to backlog, is it desired to simply +2 em so they get merged there? | 18:36 |
| lbragstad | I like the subdirs because they help keep track of what happened and when | 18:36 |
| ayoung | the BP process tracks where they land. we are confusing things | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | I need to have an idea what is targeted for the specs for a cycle | 18:36 |
| ayoung | having them in one dfir means: there are approved... | 18:36 |
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| morganfainberg | Bps are broken. Still do not make me deal with LP more. | 18:36 |
| ayoung | we do that for KC and middleware anyway | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | Seriously LP is a reason enough to keep the dirs. | 18:36 |
| dstanek | i was planning on putting any of my open specs in the backlog - would that be a good idea? | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek: yes. | 18:37 |
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| ayoung | make a file that says which specs are in which release and put it in the specs repo then | 18:37 |
| ayoung | seriously, make it simpler | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: when we can ditch LP we can look at other workflows. | 18:37 |
| ayoung | for now...everytiing goes in backlog | 18:37 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung: are you dealing with release management? Please let's not make this worse right now. | 18:38 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, I thought the K3 page linked to the BPs, not the specs? | 18:38 |
| ayoung | Didn;'t thinkm you were capable of ignoring BPs yet | 18:38 |
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| morganfainberg | A little more work on the specs is easier for me for now. | 18:38 |
| ayoung | https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/kilo-3 | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | If the next ptl wants to change this they can. | 18:38 |
| ayoung | anyway...it is not for Kilo | 18:38 |
| ayoung | it is for Limabean and beyond | 18:39 |
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| morganfainberg | This is enough of a headache that please leave this bit of it to the ptl to manage how that workflow looks. Seriously the directories help. | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | At least me | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | For now. | 18:39 |
| * gyee is here to write code only | 18:40 | |
| ayoung | It means that we get a slew of -2s that mean nothing. I'm all for letting Kilo go throuigh, just that all bumped specs go to backlog, right? | 18:40 |
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| ayoung | can git do symlinks....? | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | Back to the topic at hand. Anything that is not likely to land in k, abfab ldap filtering. Sql extra attrs etc will be bumped | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | This also likely means the provider cleanup will be pushed. | 18:41 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: ldap filtering is done (just marked it so) | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | We need that cleanup, but it can land first thing in liberty. The klwt will land first in either case. | 18:41 |
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| gyee | wait, AE have a dependency on provider cleanup | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash: thanks. | 18:41 |
| gyee | isn't it? | 18:41 |
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| morganfainberg | gyee: no we broke that because klwt has a higher priority. We really need it now. | 18:42 |
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| morganfainberg | The provider cleanup needs to happen. We can make that hard dep and land klwt | 18:42 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, that means both needs to land or none at all for kilo | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | So inverting the order. The added overhead for cleaning up a new provider is relatively low. :( | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | No. | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | Klwt will land. Provider cleanup could land next cycle first off. As soon as rc is cut. | 18:43 |
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| gyee | k, I need to re-read that code then | 18:43 |
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| morganfainberg | This is because we are at a hard ff deadline in 10 days. | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | If provider lands (blocking on client stuff) we can land both. But j expect provider to land 1st thing in l | 18:44 |
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| gyee | that's fine, less moving part is better | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | david8hu: we will get you working with Adam to help unblocking the provider cleanup as well. | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | So please review the bps on the kilo-3 milestone. If they are complete mark them as such. | 18:45 |
| stevemar | morganfainberg, so we're going to bump 1) token provider cleanup, 2) remove extra attrs, 3) abfab | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | Yep for sure the last two stevemar | 18:45 |
| david8hu | sure. I am able to make progress without the new access info so far. | 18:45 |
| breton | it'd be great to hide non-kilo specs somehow | 18:45 |
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| gyee | reviews, reviews, and mo reviews | 18:45 |
| stevemar | henrynash, ^ bumping 2 is all you, you good with that? | 18:46 |
| breton | or make a list of really-high-priority changesets | 18:46 |
| marekd | breton: from keystone-specs repo ? | 18:46 |
| morganfainberg | david8hu: and that work will still be super important. | 18:46 |
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| henrynash | stevemar: | 18:46 |
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| breton | marekd: from everywhere on keystone-related review.openstack.org | 18:46 |
| morganfainberg | david8hu: it likely won't be too bad to rebase pose rc | 18:46 |
| henrynash | yes, remove extra attrs can be bumped (I think I already did!) | 18:46 |
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| morganfainberg | breton: there is a link in the topic of the keystone channel for high prio reviews. | 18:46 |
| marekd | ++ | 18:46 |
| david8hu | morganfainberg: ok | 18:47 |
| breton | morganfainberg: yes, and we are going to move some of them to L, right? | 18:47 |
| bknudson | http://status.openstack.org/reviews/ sorts reviews by a score if that helps to prioritize reviews. | 18:47 |
| marekd | morganfainberg: so, shall we +1/+2 specs that were moved to backlog, or -2 them for until L cycle is open? | 18:47 |
| morganfainberg | All -2 specs proposed (gerrit only ) will be either abandoned or need to be reproposed against backlog. | 18:47 |
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| morganfainberg | marekd: I'll take care of -2s for non backlog specs. Any that are backlog should already have -2 cleared | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | But please propose them to backlog. It is lower cost to | 18:48 |
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| breton | there are almost 30 high-priority reviews. Are they all really-really high priority for the next 10 days? | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | Rename a file than deal with massive lists. | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | breton: that will be cleaned up as I push specs beyond to l. | 18:49 |
| marekd | aha, cause i did a bunch of +1 of keystone-specs/backlog specs cause it was polluting my next-review list. | 18:49 |
| morganfainberg | That is the current list slated for k. | 18:49 |
| lbragstad | those reviews will have to be unstarred too, | 18:49 |
| lbragstad | morganfainberg: I can help with that one your clean up is done | 18:49 |
| morganfainberg | marekd: perfectly fine to +1/+2 backlog specs. | 18:49 |
| lbragstad | once* | 18:49 |
| marekd | morganfainberg: will change. | 18:49 |
| morganfainberg | If they are good we should approve them for backlog :) | 18:49 |
| rodrigods | ++ | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | It means anyone can grab them and know we like the idea. | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | It lowers the barrier to entry for new developers / contributors to work on features. | 18:50 |
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| ayoung | according to https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/kilo-3 the only thing marked essentila is marekd 's Keystone to Keystone Service Providers | 18:50 |
| ayoung | then 3 high | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: and that is still essential. | 18:51 |
| ayoung | Allow for mapping to existing user in federated workflow | 18:51 |
| ayoung | also marekd | 18:51 |
| ayoung | Improve list role assignments filtering performance | 18:51 |
| ayoung | and | 18:51 |
| ayoung | raildo, Implementing Reseller Use Case with the Hierarchical Multitenancy. | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | Yep. | 18:51 |
| ayoung | so.. I would say priority goes to reviews for those features | 18:51 |
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| ayoung | kindof hard to tell from the BP page which are still outstanding | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | Anyway. I'll have the high priority review list cleaned up today. | 18:51 |
| breton | k, great | 18:52 |
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| morganfainberg | Last item and the. We are done. | 18:52 |
| ayoung | K2k has several reviews, most of which are merged | 18:52 |
| raildo | ayoung, ++ | 18:52 |
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| rodrigods | we need k2k in kc | 18:52 |
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| marekd | ayoung: service provider in service catalog was problematic | 18:52 |
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| ayoung | rodrigods, not a Keystone server/M3 deadline though | 18:52 |
| marekd | and that's why it is stalled | 18:52 |
| rodrigods | ayoung, ++ | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | So moving on | 18:52 |
| ayoung | marekd, as I said, we had considered that years ago and discarded it | 18:52 |
| ayoung | lets talk in #openstack-keystone afterwards...move on morganfainberg | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | #topic bps that do not need specs | 18:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bps that do not need specs (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:53 | |
| morganfainberg | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/assignment-manager-cleanup | 18:53 |
| lbragstad | ~ 7 minutes left | 18:53 |
| samueldmq | morganfainberg, was from last week ... sorry | 18:53 |
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| morganfainberg | Did we decide? | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | I don't remember. | 18:53 |
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| samueldmq | no ... | 18:54 |
| morganfainberg | So then this week is when we talk it through :) | 18:54 |
| morganfainberg | If it wasn't talked about. | 18:54 |
| samueldmq | stevemar told me to work and see what happens ... to change it to wip :p | 18:54 |
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| samueldmq | anyway .. | 18:54 |
| samueldmq | the idea is to have several methods that honor inheritance and grouping in role assignments | 18:54 |
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| morganfainberg | So we can take a look. Does that need a spec? Please look it over quickly. If it isn't quick/ we have concerns it can require a spec | 18:55 |
| samueldmq | using the new list_role_assignments ... that correctly honor everything needed | 18:55 |
| morganfainberg | A spec requires liberty cycle though. | 18:55 |
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| samueldmq | it's quite simple ... for each method which honor inheritance and grouping membership, re-use list_role_assignments instead of implementing it by itself | 18:56 |
| samueldmq | and that's done | 18:56 |
| samueldmq | no changing in the behavior | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | At a glance it looks like something that doesn't need a spec and doesn't change behavior n | 18:56 |
| samueldmq | exactly | 18:56 |
| rodrigods | ++ reuse code :) | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | So I'd be ok with this landing anytime. But anyone else have thoughts / concerns? | 18:56 |
| gyee | ++ for improving the role assignment stuff | 18:57 |
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| henrynash | samueldmq: my only concern is we have a long line of patches queued up….so this has to go on the end., no? | 18:57 |
| samueldmq | in addition, this is strictly related to removing the old style metadata ... that re-uses list_role-assignments as well :) | 18:57 |
| henrynash | samueldmq: but as you kno, I’ve been puching this re-use, so conceptually I’m all for it | 18:58 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash: yes. But it looks to be more tech debt pay down than anything else and probably could land even post k3 | 18:58 |
| bknudson | I think a bp is adequate for this. | 18:58 |
| samueldmq | henrynash, well, we have the list role assignments improvement as priority | 18:58 |
| samueldmq | and that should land | 18:58 |
| samueldmq | we just need more reviews on it ... | 18:58 |
| henrynash | fine | 18:58 |
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| gyee | but that role-assignment test code was pretty tough to read though | 18:58 |
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| gyee | took awhile to review that stuff | 18:58 |
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| morganfainberg | Ok so we're out of time. | 18:59 |
| morganfainberg | Any reasons not to say this can go w/o a spec. | 18:59 |
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| morganfainberg | Going in 2.... | 18:59 |
| henrynash | nope | 18:59 |
| samueldmq | #https://review.openstack.org/#/c/137202/ | 18:59 |
| henrynash | (i mean nope, no reason it needs a spec) | 18:59 |
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| morganfainberg | Ok call it no spec needed. | 18:59 |
| samueldmq | please review the top of the chain | 18:59 |
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| samueldmq | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/137202/ | 18:59 |
| samueldmq | morganfainberg, k thanks | 19:00 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash: can you update the bp to reflect this info and reference this meeting? | 19:00 |
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| morganfainberg | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 24 19:00:22 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-02-24-18.02.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-02-24-18.02.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-02-24-18.02.log.html | 19:00 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: will do | 19:00 |
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| clarkb | ohai | 19:00 |
| anteaya | o/ | 19:00 |
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| fungi | heyhey! | 19:00 |
| mrmartin | o/ | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | hello infra peoples | 19:01 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:01 |
| mordred | o/ | 19:01 |
| asselin | Hi | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 24 19:01:45 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-02-17-19.01.html | 19:01 |
| ianw | hello | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| jeblair | AJaeger update infra manual with info on setting up depends on for CRD between new openstack/* project changes and the governance change accepting that project | 19:02 |
| jeblair | i think that just merged a few minutes ago | 19:02 |
| jeblair | so yay! | 19:02 |
| jhesketh | Morning | 19:02 |
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| krtaylor | o/ | 19:02 |
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| AJaeger_ | evening | 19:02 |
| anteaya | thanks AJaeger_ | 19:02 |
| jeblair | the rest of the actions i think will fit into later topics | 19:02 |
| SpamapS | o/ | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Swift logs) | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Swift logs) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| jeblair | so i guess it's good we haven't quite gotten around to deploying this everywhere yet | 19:03 |
| mordred | bah. | 19:03 |
| jeblair | since the requests release broke us | 19:03 |
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| anteaya | diversity ftw | 19:03 |
| jeblair | is this running in a venv? | 19:03 |
| mordred | what's this you say? a python library made a release that breaks things? | 19:03 |
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| fungi | yeah, it's in a venv | 19:04 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yes it is | 19:04 |
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| nibalizer | o/ | 19:04 |
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| jeblair | ok. so we're currently fixing it by rolling forward on image updates with the new, fixed, version | 19:04 |
| clarkb | we could just pin to a specific version of all the deps in the venv today with a working set and never update. We would have to pay attention to security updates | 19:04 |
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| jhesketh | ouch, I missed that :-( | 19:04 |
| jeblair | but if this had been deployed everywhere, we could have killed images and fallen back to the previous working version | 19:04 |
| jesusaurus | o/ | 19:04 |
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| fungi | very true | 19:05 |
| jeblair | so it's good to know that if something like this happens again (please no), we have a workable coping strategy | 19:05 |
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| clarkb | +1 | 19:05 |
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| jeblair | at any rate, this should be running again soon... jhesketh, any blocking reviews? | 19:05 |
| clarkb | there is the change jhesketh and I co wrote to do uploads ocncurrently | 19:06 |
| jhesketh | jeblair: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-infra/project-config+branch:master+topic:enable_swift,n,z | 19:06 |
| clarkb | and the zuul change to fix layout handling of integer vals | 19:06 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-infra/project-config+branch:master+topic:enable_swift,n,z | 19:06 |
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| jhesketh | gives the uploader glob support like Jenkins | 19:06 |
| clarkb | jhesketh: I should update those two changes to use that topic, I will do so now | 19:06 |
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| jeblair | cool, so everything related will show up there soon. | 19:06 |
| tchaypo | That's better | 19:06 |
| jhesketh | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/156788/ | 19:07 |
| jeblair | anything else on this? | 19:07 |
| jhesketh | yep, I'll update a couple of other non-important reviews to that topic too then | 19:07 |
| jhesketh | just incremental improvements really | 19:07 |
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| clarkb | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+branch:master+topic:enable_swift,n,z | 19:07 |
| clarkb | needed to drop the project restriction to get the zuul change in | 19:07 |
| jhesketh | the main thing is moving more jobs over, which is in that topic | 19:07 |
| jeblair | cool, thanks. (best to avoid merging that one until we have the all-clear on the new image builds) | 19:08 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Nodepool DIB) | 19:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Nodepool DIB) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:09 | |
| jhesketh | agreed | 19:09 |
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| jeblair | mordred, clarkb, SpamapS: anything on this topic? | 19:09 |
| clarkb | oh ya, the grub thing | 19:10 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/158413 | 19:10 |
| clarkb | we are not currently setting kernel boot parameters in the grub2 configs in a way that properly restricts our instances to 8GB of memory | 19:10 |
| SpamapS | clarkb: regarding your thoughts that update-grub may be required... you may be right. I think a simple experiment is in order. :) | 19:10 |
| mordred | yolanda has some work on the nodepool-shade done | 19:10 |
| mordred | shade could really use reviews on: 153623 156247 156088 157509 156954 | 19:10 |
| yolanda | yes, i started working on it, but i've been evolving shade in the meantime | 19:11 |
| clarkb | greghaynes is looking into fixing that in dib and we can probably limp along by explicitly calling update-grub in our element | 19:11 |
| yolanda | really using shade in context reveals the weak points | 19:11 |
| greghaynes | Yep | 19:11 |
| jeblair | mordred: can you make that into #links for the record? | 19:11 |
| yolanda | latest thing i did is the caching layer, that will be useful for nodepool | 19:11 |
| yolanda | it's pending review | 19:11 |
| clarkb | SpamapS: ya I basically confirmed it after grepping around, the only place update-grub is called is in the finalize.d/51-bootloader script which is before we make our changes and it is also where grub is installed so we don't have a place to slip edits in currently | 19:11 |
| jeblair | mordred: (ideally a topic link) | 19:11 |
| mordred | they don't all have the same topic - I could go edit the topic on them though if you like | 19:12 |
| fungi | after some heavy consideration of the image collapsing work, i've determined that the best path forward involves leveraging bindep to provide usable cross-platform manifests of what we want installed in such a way that individual projects can also override them, so i have several patches proposed to stackforge/bindep in service of that goal | 19:12 |
| clarkb | I think we solve the grub thing by first manually running update-grub for now then when dib is fixed update dib and update our element to take advantage of dib fix | 19:12 |
| tchaypo | Could you hashtag that so it shows in the minutes? | 19:12 |
| SpamapS | #hashtag ? | 19:12 |
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| tchaypo | Blah. That was a response to mordred's list of bugs | 19:13 |
| tchaypo | Train wifi is laggy :( | 19:13 |
| * mordred working on it | 19:13 | |
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| fungi | oh, also i have a mostly complete bindep manifest which covers the things we install today on bare-centos6, bare-precise and bare-trusty which should make the devstack-.* versions of those behave similarly | 19:14 |
| clarkb | fungi: nice | 19:14 |
| tchaypo | Thanks. I saw jeblair beat me too it | 19:14 |
| fungi | but didn't get a chance to finish it before the meeting | 19:14 |
| jeblair | #link bindep for image collapsing: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:stackforge/bindep+status:open,n,z | 19:14 |
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| fungi | thanks | 19:14 |
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| mordred | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-infra/shade+branch:master+topic:dib-nodepool,n,z | 19:15 |
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| fungi | #link other-requirements.txt for bindep http://paste.openstack.org/show/181378 | 19:15 |
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| fungi | the mostly-complete example | 19:15 |
| darx0n | i | 19:15 |
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| mordred | who is core on bindep? | 19:16 |
| fungi | lifeless: | 19:16 |
| fungi | is core on it | 19:16 |
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| fungi | he may welcome help, i haven't asked yet | 19:16 |
| fungi | it sort of sat abandoned for a couple years until i decided to use it | 19:16 |
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| jeblair | we could also adopt it into infra if lifeless is okay with that | 19:17 |
| mordred | lifeless: ^^ | 19:17 |
| fungi | but it really already has the framework to do most of what we want (hence my relatively trivial patches) | 19:17 |
| fungi | some of which might warrant me adding a few tests for coverage | 19:17 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata) | 19:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:18 | |
| jeblair | pleia2: istr you are still iterating on the big "run zanata" patch? | 19:18 |
| pleia2 | yeah, didn't make progress last week because travel+bad internet | 19:19 |
| tchaypo | Do we have a specific topic for the vanilla cloud coming up? | 19:19 |
| jeblair | tchaypo: yep | 19:19 |
| pleia2 | mrmartin has been helping me with testing, so I have a change pending to incorporate his comments | 19:19 |
| mrmartin | I did a review on the patch, and tested it, and found only one dependency issue. | 19:19 |
| mrmartin | with fixing that, the puppet will run well without errors. | 19:20 |
| jeblair | that's my favorite way of puppet running | 19:20 |
| mrmartin | the bad news, need to check the deployment, because something is still broken with zanata.war deployment | 19:20 |
| mrmartin | I'll try to allocate some time to trace it. | 19:20 |
| pleia2 | once this is done, the fun part is writing the system-config file to setup mysql, exim and whatever else we end up meeding | 19:21 |
| tchaypo | Or needing | 19:21 |
| pleia2 | yeah, that too ;) | 19:21 |
| mrmartin | why exim? don't we using postfix? | 19:21 |
| jeblair | mrmartin, pleia2: cools, also even thought they don't use puppet, remember the zanata folks might be able to help figure out what's wrong | 19:21 |
| jeblair | mrmartin: we have some exim experts here | 19:21 |
| fungi | so zanata has a specific smtp api? | 19:21 |
| pleia2 | yeah, I've been in touch with carlos throughout, he's helped with standalone.xml problems more than once so far | 19:22 |
| fungi | or notifications or what? | 19:22 |
| pleia2 | fungi: notifications | 19:22 |
| fungi | if it just needs to be able to send outbound, there's pretty much no extra config needed for that | 19:22 |
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| mrmartin | do we have any limitation on outbound emails? | 19:23 |
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| jeblair | mrmartin: nope | 19:23 |
| fungi | mrmartin: in hpcloud i think, but not in rackspace | 19:23 |
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| fungi | or did hpcloud finally fix their source port 25 block? | 19:23 |
| mrmartin | ok, I've the same experience with hpcloud. | 19:23 |
| jeblair | (one of the reasons we run all our servers in rackspace) | 19:23 |
| mordred | yup | 19:23 |
| fungi | er, egress to destination port 25 block i guess | 19:23 |
| jeblair | mrmartin: in hpcloud the rate limit should be such that you can at least test it with a few emails | 19:23 |
| jeblair | fungi: more of a rate limit than block, i thought | 19:24 |
| pleia2 | yeah, rate limit, emails come eventually | 19:24 |
| fungi | got it, i think i never knew the details around it | 19:24 |
| mrmartin | yep, but sending out bulk emails can hit those limits. | 19:24 |
| fungi | right, enough that lists.o.o or review.o.o would never fly | 19:24 |
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| clarkb | not even stackforge.o.o flew | 19:24 |
| jeblair | pleia2, mrmartin: thanks! | 19:24 |
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| fungi | anyway, we're building it in rax-dfw alond with our other servers, so should be fine | 19:24 |
| clarkb | and that was in the before times :) | 19:24 |
| fungi | er, along | 19:24 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Downstream Puppet) | 19:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Downstream Puppet) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:25 | |
| jeblair | #link last call on: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/137471/ | 19:25 |
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| jeblair | that spec looks ready to merge to me. last chance to look it over. | 19:25 |
| jeblair | #link needs updates: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/139745/ | 19:25 |
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| jeblair | asselin: ^ that spec needs another revision, but i think we're all really excited about it | 19:25 |
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| asselin | yes, i got good feedback. will update soon | 19:25 |
| nibalizer | thanks pleia for helping me with the last yard on that one | 19:25 |
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| jeblair | and finally, we are poised to publish our modules to the forge as "openstackci-foo"... | 19:26 |
| jeblair | except i think we actually want it to be "openstackinfra-foo" | 19:26 |
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| mordred | oh right | 19:26 |
| mordred | I was supposed to make that | 19:26 |
| jeblair | does that change sound good to everyone? | 19:26 |
| clarkb | what were peoples' thoughts on thirdpartyci module vs runanopenstackci module? | 19:26 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: wfm | 19:27 |
| anteaya | jeblair: yes | 19:27 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: sounds good to me | 19:27 |
| asselin | based on jeblair's feedback where -infa uses it also, I prefer not to use 'thirdparty'. I plan to adjust the spec with that | 19:27 |
| anteaya | clarkb: what is in the module? | 19:27 |
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| fungi | reusable openstack infra | 19:28 |
| mordred | jeblair: what email should I use for the openstackinfra accoutn | 19:28 |
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| jeblair | #agreed use openstackinfra for puppetforge | 19:28 |
| jeblair | #action mordred create openstackinfra account on puppetforge | 19:28 |
| clarkb | anteaya: its the proposed thing in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/139745/ one of my comments was don't make this specific to running third party ci since other people may want it too | 19:28 |
| nibalizer | clarkb: i'm not entirely sure what the difference in setups is between something like what we do, and what a thirdparty tester does | 19:28 |
| clarkb | nibalizer: third party tester usually isn't scaling out like we are, its a different opinion on how to run the same software. | 19:28 |
| jeblair | mordred: infra-root@o.o? | 19:28 |
| clarkb | nibalizer: asselin does it with jenkins, zuul, nodepool on a single node iirc | 19:29 |
| fungi | nibalizer: fewer components, running more services on a smaller number of machines, et cetera | 19:29 |
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| anteaya | I'm for as generic a name as we can find | 19:29 |
| nibalizer | some of the services are just slaved to infra though right? | 19:29 |
| nibalizer | e.g. gerrit? | 19:29 |
| anteaya | for folks who what any part of the structure of what we run | 19:29 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: infra's CI system is also slaved to infra's gerrit | 19:29 |
| mordred | jeblair: k. account created - there will be a confirmation email | 19:29 |
| clarkb | nibalizer: yes so no gerrit here | 19:29 |
| nibalizer | my gut instinct, and this is promising a lot, is that we could have two new modules, one for running thirdparty ci for infra and one for running your own | 19:30 |
| clarkb | nibalizer: but why do they need to be different? | 19:30 |
| nibalizer | but that might be crazytalk | 19:30 |
| anteaya | nibalizer: my sense is the point of this is to _not_ have two modules | 19:30 |
| clarkb | is basically what I am saying, if we call it thirdpartyci that implies it should only be used for talking to our gerrit, but maybe you have a gerrit and just want some CI, I dunno | 19:31 |
| jeblair | the more that infra and the third-party ci can share, the better, i think. | 19:31 |
| anteaya | but to have one that is really reusable for many situations | 19:31 |
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| nibalizer | clarkb: well if you know you're not gonna run gerrit, and gerrit will always be at review.o.o you can make it simpler | 19:31 |
| clarkb | I also mentioned maybe that is too much to chew off right now and we can converage later on the more idealistic thing | 19:31 |
| clarkb | jeblair: +1 | 19:31 |
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| asselin | I like to keep the name generic, and start with the parts listed in the spec | 19:31 |
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| nibalizer | what were talking about here is composition layers, and generally making new ones is easy and good, but ofc syncing them is hard | 19:31 |
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| nibalizer | here is my concern | 19:32 |
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| jeblair | nibalizer: gerrit is not in the scope of the current spec | 19:32 |
| nibalizer | if we keep the 'thirdparty' label then it has defined and limited scope, even though that scope is pretty big | 19:32 |
| nibalizer | if we rename it 'run your own infra module' it has enormous scope | 19:32 |
| clarkb | asselin: yup I think the content of the things is good as far as what is included. I just want to avoid making it seem that we aren't also possibly solving the problem of running your own regardless of intent | 19:32 |
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| jeblair | nibalizer: clarkb's actual suggestion was "openstackci", which i think captures the intent | 19:33 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: yea i get the sense that clarkb wanted to expand scope, im okay with calling it openstackci and we mean 'thirdparty' | 19:33 |
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| clarkb | nibalizer: well the thing is I don't think its expanded scope | 19:34 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: third-party + first-party | 19:34 |
| clarkb | nibalizer: what we are giving people is a run your own | 19:34 |
| asselin | I have the spec updated now (not yet submitted to review) to use 'openstackci' | 19:34 |
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| clarkb | nibalizer: so why not just call it that | 19:34 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: i think "all of infra" is a larger scope. and i don't think we want to do that. | 19:34 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: I am not suggestion all of infra | 19:34 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: great, i think we're all agreed. | 19:35 |
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| jeblair | asselin: thanks, it sounds like the spec is just about ready then | 19:35 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Askbot migration) | 19:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Askbot migration) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:35 | |
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| mrmartin | ok, so nothing exciting here | 19:36 |
| jeblair | the spec merged :) | 19:36 |
| mrmartin | the spec approved, and we need an approve on the main patch | 19:36 |
| mrmartin | yeap | 19:36 |
| mrmartin | and after that somebody need to launch the instance | 19:36 |
| jeblair | and i think add some things to hiera | 19:36 |
| mrmartin | I'll add all of the migration tasks to storyboard | 19:36 |
| jeblair | but mostly just making up new passwords; no real coordination needed for those | 19:36 |
| mrmartin | make new passwords | 19:36 |
| fungi | yeah, the ssl bits are in hiera, but the stuff that can be randomly generated has not been added yet | 19:37 |
| * fungi meant to and hadn't gotten around to it | 19:37 | |
| mrmartin | and when this is ready, we can pass it for extra testing before opening up to the public | 19:37 |
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| jeblair | mrmartin: can you #link the main patch? | 19:37 |
| mrmartin | #link https://review.openstack.org/140043 | 19:38 |
| fungi | mrmartin: you were going to write up the actual commands we need to use to extract and import the data it needs, right? i think that's what i originally wanted to see, but may have been lost in the shuffle when you wrote a spec about it | 19:38 |
| mrmartin | fungi, yes I've this somewhere, I'll add it to the spec | 19:39 |
| fungi | i'm cool with there being a spec, but was really just looking for the basic commands we'll need | 19:39 |
| mrmartin | nothing extra, just need to do postgresql backup / recovery and reindex the solr db | 19:39 |
| fungi | okay, sounds simple enough | 19:39 |
| jeblair | mrmartin: or you could add it to the system documentation (in case we need to reference it in the future) | 19:39 |
| jeblair | either way | 19:39 |
| mrmartin | that's all, but I'll add those commands, I did those tasks in test vm several times | 19:40 |
| mrmartin | #action mrmartin add operation tasks to askbot system documentation | 19:40 |
| jeblair | mrmartin: thanks! | 19:40 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Upgrading Gerrit) | 19:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Upgrading Gerrit) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:40 | |
| jeblair | zaro proposed a date for the gerrit upgrade: proposed date Fri April 10, 2015 | 19:40 |
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| jeblair | that's in the middle of pycon, and i will be unable to help then | 19:41 |
| anteaya | me too | 19:41 |
| clarkb | I won't be pyconning and assuming nothing pops up between now and then is fine with me | 19:41 |
| pleia2 | wfm | 19:42 |
| fungi | yeah, i wasn't planning to be at pycon (didn't get around to submitting any talks) so i'll be aroud | 19:42 |
| jeblair | however, might we want to do it on a saturday? | 19:42 |
| asselin | Question: will there be 'something' available to test firewall updates? | 19:42 |
| fungi | around too | 19:42 |
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| jeblair | asselin: i don't think we were planning on it, but maybe we could run netcat or something on that port? | 19:42 |
| fungi | i can also do that saturday if we'd rather, no problem | 19:42 |
| pleia2 | fwiw, I try to take saturdays off because sanity | 19:43 |
| tchaypo | Maybe a web server with a static "future gerrit" page? | 19:43 |
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| fungi | heh, yeah netcat running to serve a "you can reach us!" banner and some instructions on how to test | 19:43 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:43 |
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| jeblair | pleia2: normally, yes, and we do a lot of light gerrit maintenance on fridays. but this has the potential for significant downtime if something goes wrong. | 19:43 |
| asselin | It would be very helpful to have something so we can telnet to the ip & port and make sure connectively is good. Especially w/ coorporate requests. we have a window to test, after which you need a new request if there's a mistake. | 19:43 |
| fungi | web page might be less accurate because people may have browsers set up to proxy arbitrarily | 19:43 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: *nod* | 19:44 |
| fungi | so instructions to test ought to not involve "go to this url in a browser" | 19:44 |
| asselin | ours is supposed to be implemented soon (Planned Start: 02/24/2015 08:00:00 Planned End: 03/03/2015 16:00:00) | 19:44 |
| jeblair | pleia2: want to set that up? i don't think we need to puppet it... | 19:45 |
| jeblair | (but can if you really feel like it :) | 19:45 |
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| fungi | yeah, i wouldn't bother to puppet it | 19:45 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: sure, I'll collude with zaro | 19:45 |
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| mordred | collusion is good | 19:46 |
| jeblair | #action pleia2 set up netcat hello-world on new gerrit port 29418 | 19:46 |
| fungi | our software is built on collusion and beer | 19:46 |
| jeblair | zaro: how's saturday sound? | 19:46 |
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| zaro | sounds good | 19:46 |
| jeblair | zaro: you'll have clarkb and fungi on hand at least | 19:46 |
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| clarkb | should be fun, is that after release? | 19:47 |
| jeblair | ftr, i can do either of the next two saturdays | 19:47 |
| clarkb | I should pull up the release chart | 19:47 |
| jeblair | it's in the RC period | 19:47 |
| zaro | i believe its release candidate week | 19:47 |
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| asselin | jeblair, pleia2 thanks! | 19:47 |
| jeblair | generally the period where ttx asks us to please be slushy. | 19:47 |
| anteaya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Kilo_Release_Schedule | 19:48 |
| jeblair | perhaps we should move it to may 9? | 19:48 |
| anteaya | I like may 9 | 19:48 |
| fungi | i might be travelling then, but not sure | 19:49 |
| clarkb | ya I think gerrit upgrade isn't very slushy | 19:49 |
| clarkb | may 9 should also work for me | 19:49 |
| zaro | isn't that summit time? | 19:49 |
| jeblair | zaro: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Kilo_Release_Schedule | 19:49 |
| anteaya | summit is the week of may 21 | 19:49 |
| clarkb | ya summit starts on the 19th | 19:49 |
| clarkb | er 18th | 19:50 |
| zaro | 5/9 wfm too | 19:50 |
| jeblair | okay, everyone look at your calendars and next week we'll decide on a date | 19:50 |
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| jeblair | #info april 11 and may 9 suggested as gerrit upgrade dates | 19:50 |
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| jeblair | #topic Fedora/Centos progress (ianw 2/24) | 19:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Fedora/Centos progress (ianw 2/24) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:50 | |
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| ianw | i'd like to get the image build logs much easier to use so i'm more confident keeping on top of issues with these builds | 19:51 |
| clarkb | the log config gen script lgtm last I looked at it | 19:51 |
| ianw | i've been through several iterations of this with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/153904/ | 19:51 |
| jeblair | ianw: soon we're only going to do one image build per-type. i think when that's the case, we could just specify those types in the logging config file manually, right? | 19:52 |
| clarkb | jeblair: we could, though the script to do it is pretty handy, and maybe its a manual check into git to use it | 19:52 |
| clarkb | rather than auto gen on nodepool restart | 19:52 |
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| fungi | right, we're getting much closer to just having images named "centos" and "trusty" and so on, and building them once then uploading to all providers | 19:53 |
| jeblair | i've said this elsewhere -- i don't like having openstack's production logging config in the nodepool source code | 19:53 |
| fungi | so manually handling the log targets for them seems tractable | 19:53 |
| jeblair | i think any solution that includes that is not one i'm in favor of | 19:53 |
| clarkb | jeblair: can you add that to the change? | 19:53 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 19:53 |
| clarkb | I don't think I had caught you saying that | 19:53 |
| ianw | i would argue that it's not openstack's logging configuration, it's a generic configuration that is useful to anyone using nodepool | 19:54 |
| jeblair | let's handle that in the change | 19:54 |
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| jeblair | ianw: anything else needs discussion with the whole group? | 19:54 |
| ianw | i'd like to promote devstack centos to voting, any issues here? | 19:55 |
| mordred | oh - I guess I should say ... | 19:55 |
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| jeblair | ianw: i don't think so, but the devstack folks will need to weigh in on that | 19:55 |
| mordred | I believe I've been convinced on just running cloud-init which should make centos/fedora work for dib-nodepool better | 19:55 |
| clarkb | also may be worth swapping out a trusty job rather than doing a pure add? | 19:56 |
| mordred | although I need to get an element built that will install it into a venv with the rax patches | 19:56 |
| ianw | yes, i'll propose change but as long as everyone is happy with that general idea | 19:56 |
| clarkb | but that needs larger consensus probably | 19:56 |
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| ianw | also the f21 job needs to update it's kernel | 19:56 |
| clarkb | I am not opposed to centos devstack voting | 19:56 |
| ianw | i guess the answer is use a dib built f21 | 19:57 |
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| jeblair | ianw: that should happen in image builds, right? | 19:57 |
| fungi | ianw: also thanks for helping the glusterfs cinder driver folks with their centos7 testing issues | 19:57 |
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| clarkb | ianw: we can't do dib with rackspace just yet, but when we can this would avoid that problem | 19:57 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ianw started a thread about why it tries but fails | 19:57 |
| clarkb | in the -infra list | 19:58 |
| jeblair | ok | 19:58 |
| jeblair | #topic Infra-cloud (jeblair) | 19:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Infra-cloud (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:58 | |
| jeblair | so we're nearly out of time | 19:58 |
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| jeblair | #link summary email https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kBPiVfTsAP | 19:58 |
| jeblair | #link story https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000175 | 19:58 |
| jeblair | #link etherpad https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/InfraCloudBootcamp | 19:58 |
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| jeblair | i'll send out an email about this soon (see that first link) | 19:58 |
| jeblair | but the short version is that we have some folks that want to join us and help us run a cloud | 19:59 |
| jeblair | as part of infra. and help out with infra-ish things too. | 19:59 |
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| mordred | yay! | 19:59 |
| tchaypo | I'll follow up on the email | 19:59 |
| jeblair | i think it's pretty exciting | 19:59 |
| tchaypo | And figure out who I should be giving access to those servers and how | 19:59 |
| tchaypo | So that we can. I've forward | 20:00 |
| jeblair | so anyway, yeah, we'll follow up in email, and talk about this more next week | 20:00 |
| mrmartin | awesome | 20:00 |
| jeblair | thanks everyone! | 20:00 |
| cebruns | That is cool. | 20:00 |
| tchaypo | Move | 20:00 |
| jhesketh | seeya | 20:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 24 20:00:36 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-02-24-19.01.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-02-24-19.01.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-02-24-19.01.log.html | 20:00 |
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| ttx | Anyone here for the TC meeting ? | 20:01 |
| devananda | o/ | 20:01 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:01 |
| jeblair | o/ | 20:01 |
| amrith | o/ | 20:01 |
| mikal | Hi | 20:01 |
| vishy | i have to head out at 12:30 so lets go fast :) | 20:01 |
| ttx | russellb, jgriffith, annegentle, mordred, markmcclain, jaypipes, sdague : around ? | 20:01 |
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| sdague | o/ | 20:01 |
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| markmcclain | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | dhellmann has an unexpected family matter to attend and will likely miss | 20:01 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:01 |
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| ttx | ok, we have quorum | 20:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 24 20:02:00 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:02 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
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| ttx | #topic openstack-specs approval rules | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "openstack-specs approval rules (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| ttx | I put this one first since we'll need to use the decision here on the next topic | 20:02 |
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| ttx | Current state (once https://review.openstack.org/158666 lands) is: | 20:02 |
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| ttx | Anyone can +1, TC members can +2, TC chair can tally votes (and workflow+1) | 20:02 |
| ttx | Does that work for everyone ? | 20:03 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:03 |
| vishy | +1 | 20:03 |
| devananda | +1 | 20:03 |
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| sdague | sure | 20:03 |
| markmcclain | +1 | 20:03 |
| jeblair | yep | 20:03 |
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| mordred | best. thing. evar | 20:03 |
| mikal | Works for me | 20:03 |
| sdague | is there a quorum issue? | 20:03 |
| ttx | #agreed openstack-specs approval rules: Anyone can +1, TC members can +2, TC chair can tally votes (and workflow+1) | 20:03 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:03 |
| ttx | sdague: it's part of the "tally votes" thing | 20:03 |
| russellb | ++ | 20:03 |
| sdague | ttx: ok, sounds good | 20:03 |
| mikal | We should do that for the governance repo too | 20:03 |
| ttx | sdague: ideally chair should only wiorkflow+1 when there is "consensus" | 20:03 |
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| mikal | i.e. let anyone +1 / -1 | 20:04 |
| ttx | mikal: I guess.. we could | 20:04 |
| jeblair | mikal: did you read my mail to the list? | 20:04 |
| mikal | jeblair: it depends when you sent it... its 7am here | 20:04 |
| ttx | ISTR there was a reason not to | 20:04 |
| jeblair | mikal: like 2 weeks ago | 20:04 |
| mikal | I do not recall it then | 20:05 |
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| russellb | ttx: the need to differentiante between TC -1 vs. general -1 i think? | 20:05 |
| annegent_ | color coding? | 20:05 |
| annegent_ | (kidding) | 20:05 |
| ttx | russellb: right, that one. | 20:05 |
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| jeblair | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-February/056788.html | 20:06 |
| jeblair | so anyway, there are some options | 20:06 |
| jeblair | they are described in that email | 20:06 |
| ttx | let's follow up there | 20:06 |
| sdague | russellb: so... we all know who is in the TC right? We can read the votes :) | 20:06 |
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| ttx | jeblair: since that review to use the right group is blocked, could you add me to https://review.openstack.org/#/admin/groups/573,members so that we can proceed with approvals today ? | 20:07 |
| mikal | Ahhh, I see | 20:07 |
| russellb | sdague: sure, just trying to recall the reasoning way back when | 20:07 |
| mikal | Its also about avoiding a TC member vetoing | 20:07 |
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| jeblair | ttx: done | 20:08 |
| ttx | thx | 20:08 |
| ttx | #topic Final rubberstamp on CLI Sorting Argument Guidelines | 20:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Final rubberstamp on CLI Sorting Argument Guidelines (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:08 | |
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| anteaya | sorry ttx did want to have that in before the meeting | 20:08 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145544/ | 20:08 |
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| ttx | anteaya: np, we worked around it | 20:08 |
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| ttx | So I'm about to approve this review. Any last comments before I do ? | 20:08 |
| anteaya | yep | 20:08 |
| ttx | I still see unanimous support from where I stand | 20:09 |
| ttx | and support from all the PTLs impacted | 20:09 |
| annegent_ | looks completely approvable to me | 20:10 |
| ttx | ok, will take that as a yes | 20:10 |
| ttx | approved | 20:10 |
| ttx | #topic M+ Release naming process | 20:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "M+ Release naming process (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:10 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/150604 | 20:10 |
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| ttx | This proposal is still a bit short on approval | 20:11 |
| ttx | Technically if I call for final voting it can pass if it gets 5 YES and less than 5 NO | 20:11 |
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| jeblair | i think we should ask people to vote asap and do last-call on this. | 20:11 |
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| ttx | jeblair: in meeting or before next week ? | 20:12 |
| jeblair | i don't thing we should drag it out; if there are minor changes (like moving the date around) we can do those as followup ammendments | 20:12 |
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| ttx | ok, vote asap, let's try to close this one during the meeting | 20:13 |
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| ttx | I'd like to make sure we have volunteers to run this process if it's approved, too | 20:13 |
| markmcclain | so my biggest concern is that the discussion is separate from the vote | 20:13 |
| ttx | (since I think it will result in more pain that the current system, I'd rather not drive that train) | 20:13 |
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| ttx | jeblair, mordred: would you be ok to drive the M one ? | 20:13 |
| jeblair | ttx: i think mordred has previous volunteered | 20:13 |
| mordred | ttx: sure | 20:13 |
| ttx | #indo mordred volunteered to drive the M release naming train on the new process, should it be accepted | 20:14 |
| ttx | err | 20:14 |
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| ttx | #info mordred volunteered to drive the M release naming train on the new process, should it be accepted | 20:14 |
| * mordred puts the indo in his pocket for later | 20:14 | |
| ttx | markmcclain: discussion on ? | 20:14 |
| markmcclain | the names | 20:14 |
| jeblair | markmcclain: yeah, i think there's an attempt to tie them together though -- with the process for annotating names with discussion about them | 20:14 |
| markmcclain | jeblair: cool.. that will work | 20:15 |
| ttx | one issue I has in the past naming contests was that nobody would add names to the wiki page | 20:15 |
| ttx | so names were randomly thrown out and never really "proposed" | 20:15 |
| ttx | you'll probably have to make stronger calls | 20:16 |
| russellb | has 6 YES now | 20:16 |
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| mordred | ttx: I will attempt to use my annoying voice | 20:16 |
| ttx | ok, will approve if it has less than 5 NO by the end of the meeting (as it should) | 20:16 |
| ttx | unless it gets a 7th YES right now | 20:16 |
| ttx | #topic Projects using private communication channels | 20:16 |
| markmcclain | it has 7 now | 20:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Projects using private communication channels (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:17 | |
| ttx | markmcclain: ok approving | 20:17 |
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| ttx | not sure I can approve the vote without voting +2 on it though | 20:17 |
| ttx | let's see | 20:17 |
| jeblair | ttx: yeah, that's one of the points i addressed in my email. we should be able to fix that too. | 20:17 |
| ttx | I'll mùake my abstention known with a note then | 20:18 |
| jeblair | ttx: in the mean time, i suggest you leave a comment indicating your +2 is procedural and you are actually (abstaining/voting no/etc) | 20:18 |
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| mordred | jeblair, ttx: we could force-merge it so that ttx doesn't have to +2 vote | 20:18 |
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| annegent_ | mordred: oh dear the power. | 20:18 |
| mordred | it is an awkward position to put him in | 20:18 |
| ttx | It's fine, I commented | 20:19 |
| mordred | kk | 20:19 |
| jeblair | cool. we'll fix this in the acl overhaul. | 20:19 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:19 |
| ttx | #undo | 20:19 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0xa360f10> | 20:19 |
| ttx | #topic Projects using private communication channels | 20:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Projects using private communication channels (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:19 | |
| ttx | back on topic | 20:19 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-February/056551.html | 20:19 |
| reed | o/ | 20:19 |
| ttx | reed: o/ | 20:19 |
| reed | I have tracked down the story of the private channel established within one of our project | 20:19 |
| ttx | reed has been serving as ombudsman and contact point for the various parties on this issue | 20:19 |
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| * mordred hands reed a cookie | 20:20 | |
| reed | the channel was created at one point in time with the specific intention to discuss a delicate issue that required privacy | 20:20 |
| reed | the team that created it was very careful and made it +i +s | 20:20 |
| ttx | just to confirm, I'm actually fine with private temporary channels created to gather people temporarily on an issue. I don't agree with protected / invite-only channels, or permanent private channels | 20:21 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:21 |
| russellb | yeah, agree | 20:21 |
| jeblair | ttx: i think that describes my feeling as well | 20:21 |
| reed | the channel remained active *after* the crisis was over | 20:21 |
| ttx | and making *not* protected actually ensures that they are temporary | 20:21 |
| ttx | and using funny names | 20:21 |
| amrith | could we let reed finish first please. | 20:21 |
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| reed | but the team using it wasn't really using it for anything but a convenient place where to discuss other topics that rquired privacy | 20:22 |
| reed | this has happend once or twice only | 20:22 |
| reed | i was also reassured that the team was not 'hanging out' in that private team | 20:22 |
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| reed | meaning that the channel was not used much and the group was self-policing it so that public topics were addressed on the public channels | 20:23 |
| annegent_ | reed: or anyone really, can you give more info on the meaning of +i and +s? | 20:23 |
| vishy | so it kind of sounds like someone made a mountain out of a molehill | 20:23 |
| reed | vishy, sort of... | 20:23 |
| ttx | well, the trick is... permanent private channels always degenrate | 20:24 |
| reed | as I mentioned on email, I think that a *permanent* private channel develops bad habits | 20:24 |
| reed | and they should not be used | 20:24 |
| reed | temporary private channels I'm ok with them | 20:24 |
| amrith | annegent_, IRC channel flags (https://www.alien.net.au/irc/chanmodes.html), +i invite only, +s secret | 20:24 |
| ttx | discussing things is so much more convenient when the crowd is controlled that you end up discussing stuff there that you shouldn't | 20:25 |
| annegent_ | reed: do you have any analysis on the "internet jury/public shaming" aspect of the mailing list thread? What I mean is, how can we ensure the mountain doesn't rise up again from some other misunderstanding? | 20:25 |
| annegent_ | how can we encourage trust rather than distrust? | 20:25 |
| mikal | So, in the interests of full disclosure, the group now known as nova-specs-core had a private channel which we used while navigating the early days of how specs would work. That channel appears to have been used between 22 April 2014 and 18 June 2014, but has been idle since. We never did get around to deleting it though. | 20:25 |
| ttx | it's one thing to have company-private channels (like everyone has) | 20:25 |
| annegent_ | thanks for that mikal | 20:25 |
| reed | annegent_, the email thread was not about an IRC channel only | 20:25 |
| ttx | iit's another to have a channel in the openstack community exclusing another part of the community permanently | 20:26 |
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| ttx | excluding* | 20:26 |
| ttx | So I guess we can consider the issue closed on the particular issue that raised this thread. Should we write a resolution to avoid that kind of "issue" in the future ? | 20:26 |
| anteaya | I think annegent_ brings up a good question, how do we encourage trust | 20:26 |
| mikal | Frankly, I see that happening a lot more with company channels than I do with private channels based on available data | 20:26 |
| devananda | mikal: ty. I have been wondering what all this was actually referring to, and while I love talking in the abstract, it's good to know | 20:26 |
| ttx | Or was the current noise about it enough to prevent it in the future ? | 20:26 |
| russellb | devananda: i think this was actually in reference to another case | 20:27 |
| mikal | Its relatively common for me to hear that somehting has been discussed in a private company channel and that a subgroup has formed an opinion that way | 20:27 |
| devananda | russellb: oh ... | 20:27 |
| mikal | devananda: the channel I am disclosing is not the one which caused the complaint (to my knowledge) | 20:27 |
| russellb | i'm sure in both cases, the channels were mostly idle, but if you know it exists but aren't there, it becomes a trust issue | 20:27 |
| devananda | I'll just settle for being in the dark then | 20:27 |
| devananda | russellb: right | 20:27 |
| * eglynn-afk eglynn | 20:28 | |
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| ttx | does the TC think further action needs to be taken on this ? | 20:28 |
| mikal | So, that's kind of where I was going... | 20:29 |
| mikal | I think we should make some sort of blanket statement encouraging peopel to work in the open | 20:29 |
| anteaya | I think the larger question of how to encourage trust still could use some thought | 20:29 |
| russellb | i think our stance on openness is already clear enough | 20:29 |
| devananda | mikal: groups of people who work together often form collective opinions, whether that grouping is by-project, by-company, or what ever -- and I think that's normal and acceptable behavior | 20:29 |
| russellb | don't see a need for resolution | 20:29 |
| mikal | Specifically not use corporate channels to pre-bake ideas | 20:29 |
| ttx | There also was an #openstack-social channel -- at some point we realized we started having the wrong discussions on it and we killed it | 20:29 |
| russellb | people should just continue calling things out that don't seem right | 20:29 |
| ttx | russellb: is that a fair assessment ^ ? | 20:29 |
| russellb | let it be culturally enforced | 20:29 |
| reed | ttx, I think that a resolution is not necessary | 20:29 |
| devananda | russellb: ++ | 20:29 |
| russellb | ttx: right, and killed it | 20:29 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:29 |
| reed | just a reminder from the TC on the mailing list would be enough | 20:29 |
| markmcclain | ++ | 20:29 |
| ttx | russellb: it's my texbook exampel on why permanent invite-only channels are bad :) | 20:30 |
| mordred | also - I think the underlying thing about fostering trust amongst the community is very important | 20:30 |
| ttx | Also the whole "core is not special" point needs to be reinforced | 20:30 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:30 |
| ttx | which I think was half of the original thread | 20:30 |
| devananda | ++ | 20:30 |
| markmcclain | +1 | 20:31 |
| jeblair | i think the project's principals of open development and decision making are already well stated, and i think the end of that thread reinforced many of these things | 20:31 |
| sdague | +1 | 20:31 |
| jeblair | i don't feel like a resolution is _necessary_ | 20:31 |
| ttx | *if the channel had been about left-handed people I'm pretty sure it would have been less of an issue | 20:31 |
| russellb | i wouldn't oppose one if someone feels up to writing one | 20:31 |
| annegent_ | I think reed's handling of the further investigation helped immensely and is part of resolutions for these concerns when brought to the ML. | 20:31 |
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| jeblair | reed: however, if you would like a reminder from the tc on the mailing list, in order for the tc to speak, i think we should have a resolution so we can vote on it. then someone can forward that to the list. | 20:31 |
| sdague | honestly, I think the more interesting questions that arose from it were the inconsistencies around logging of project channels, which continues to confuse new contributors | 20:31 |
| russellb | yeah, should address that too | 20:32 |
| jeblair | sdague: i feel like many folks are thinking we should just blanket-log every channel we know about | 20:32 |
| jeblair | perhaps we should take a tc resolution to make that a policy? | 20:32 |
| russellb | might be easier to have TC set logging policy than deal with tracking down consensus for every project channel | 20:32 |
| russellb | yes :) | 20:32 |
| zaneb | in #heat it's announced in the topic that it's logged. do other channels not do the same? | 20:32 |
| sdague | yeh, I'm fine with that | 20:32 |
| reed | jeblair, I would like to avoid formalities because they end up taking time | 20:32 |
| ttx | jeblair: should we address the logging question in the same run ? | 20:32 |
| jeblair | then infra can make that happen and perhaps set up appropriate channel announcements, topics, etc. | 20:32 |
| ttx | zaneb: I think it's a good thing to have (logging notification in topic) | 20:33 |
| markmcclain | consistency there would be a good idea | 20:33 |
| jeblair | reed: i think if you want a statement from the tc, we should pass a resolution. i expect this one to be quick. :) | 20:33 |
| sdague | zaneb: so there are multiple inconsistencies, #1 which channels are logged, #2 which channels tell you they are logged that are | 20:33 |
| reed | I feel like there is enough consensus that if ttx or you or anyone from the TC writes a #info here I can use that and close the incident | 20:33 |
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| zaneb | yeah, I can't think of an excuse not to have it in the topic for all of them | 20:33 |
| reed | jeblair, I leave that up to you then | 20:33 |
| * ttx can't draft anything after 9pm | 20:33 | |
| zaneb | though I confess that #heat was logged for about 6 months before I noticed | 20:33 |
| ttx | zaneb: heh | 20:34 |
| devananda | ++ to announcing logging, ++ to enforcing it in all official project channels | 20:34 |
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| zaneb | luckily I don't think I said anything too outrageous ;) | 20:34 |
| ttx | ++ to announce where it's logged too | 20:34 |
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| reed | sdague, yes, that's another topic I'd like to discuss | 20:34 |
| anteaya | devananda: define official | 20:34 |
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| ttx | anteaya: channels about an official project ? | 20:34 |
| russellb | and don't you grant -infra ownership of channels? | 20:35 |
| ttx | as in an "openstack project team" ? | 20:35 |
| mordred | anteaya: I'd say "ones that are registered with infra as channels?" | 20:35 |
| russellb | that seems like an easy trigger | 20:35 |
| anteaya | mordred: that one is easier to track | 20:35 |
| devananda | anteaya: eg, the project info on LP states "the channel is X" -- or in infra/project-config, there's an infra bot already managing in the channel | 20:35 |
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| devananda | I think mordred said it better | 20:35 |
| ttx | so.. anyone up to propose a text, or should we just draft a resolution off-meeting ? | 20:35 |
| sdague | ttx: I think take it off meeting | 20:36 |
| devananda | ttx: I feel like a resolution is unnecessary ... | 20:36 |
| russellb | off meeting probably ... need to get right definition of what channels are included | 20:36 |
| russellb | (for the logging part) | 20:36 |
| devananda | ttx: oh, you mean w.r.t. logging. yah, that's fine | 20:36 |
| ttx | devananda: two birds one stone ? | 20:36 |
| anteaya | two birds in a stone | 20:36 |
| jeblair | if we have resolutions for both, let's have two resolutions | 20:36 |
| sdague | jeblair: ++ | 20:36 |
| ttx | jeblair: up for drafting the IRC policy ? | 20:37 |
| jeblair | ttx: will do | 20:37 |
| sdague | they are related, but separate things. | 20:37 |
| ttx | #action jeblair to draft IRC policy resolution | 20:37 |
| jeblair | sdague: and they have bikesheds of completely different colors | 20:37 |
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| mordred | jeblair: can we also discuss the colors of the bikes? | 20:37 |
| sdague | but what if I want to store my snowblower in it? | 20:37 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:38 |
| ttx | current issue considered closed, will use a closing email referencing said IRC policy when passed | 20:38 |
| russellb | i think all channels should change to proper capitalization of OpenStack | 20:38 |
| jeblair | sdague: isn't your snowblower in constant use? :) | 20:38 |
| sdague | well... it will be may eventually | 20:38 |
| ttx | #topic Definition of the release tags | 20:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Definition of the release tags (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:38 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/157322 | 20:38 |
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| ttx | this proposal introduces tags to describe the release model that each code repository uses (if any) | 20:38 |
| ttx | Those are pretty objective and would be maintained by the release management team | 20:39 |
| ttx | mikal: replied to your objection, let me know if it makes sense | 20:39 |
| mikal | Yep, I read it just now | 20:39 |
| mikal | I do wonder if we should clarify what the meaning of those tags is in the context of defcore | 20:39 |
| mikal | Even if its "nothing" | 20:39 |
| mikal | Because previously the integrated release was a requirement | 20:40 |
| ttx | it is "nothing". defcore may say they would only consider release:common projects for example | 20:40 |
| russellb | that detail needs to be worked out | 20:40 |
| russellb | there hasn't been anything from defcore to say what is even needed | 20:40 |
| ttx | but until the tag exists... they use "integrated-release" as of Kilo | 20:40 |
| mikal | Well, haven't they effectively said they want to use release:integrated | 20:40 |
| mikal | Which doesn't exist? | 20:40 |
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| ttx | once we replaced it by series of tags they will pick | 20:40 |
| russellb | like, do they want something for separate trademark programs? just one big group? | 20:40 |
| zehicle | o/ | 20:40 |
| ttx | mikal: exists for kilo | 20:41 |
| russellb | mikal: note that defcore also is on icehouse and juno right now | 20:41 |
| russellb | not even kilo | 20:41 |
| russellb | so we've got some time to sort it | 20:41 |
| ttx | anyway, I expect defcore to ask us "what is the list of projects that you think will fit program Y" | 20:41 |
| russellb | before "integrated release" doesn't work | 20:41 |
| ttx | and we'll have to define a specific tag to answer that | 20:41 |
| russellb | ttx: that was my thinking | 20:41 |
| mikal | Well, I'm asking in the context of some epople wanting to change the release cycle for nova | 20:41 |
| ttx | rather than overloading an existign tag | 20:41 |
| zehicle | russellb, FWIW it looks like we're trying to move DefCore away from release ties to date ties | 20:41 |
| mikal | And seeking to understand if the defcore process would even allow that | 20:41 |
| ttx | otherwise it's integarted-reelase all over again | 20:41 |
| mikal | (But not saying I think we should change the nova release cycle if that makes sense) | 20:41 |
| russellb | zehicle: ok | 20:41 |
| russellb | mikal: i sure hope if it does change, it's still coordinated with a major set of projects ... another topic though i suppose :) | 20:42 |
| mikal | Yeah | 20:42 |
| ttx | mikal: that's a sane question -- the answer is not in the definition of that tag though | 20:42 |
| devananda | zehicle: does defcore have any intrinsic dependency on a project's release cadence? | 20:42 |
| mikal | What I want from this bit of the conversation is just a clear statement of if release:coordinated is a requirement for defcore | 20:42 |
| zehicle | we're reviewing it tomorrow @ 9 PT | 20:42 |
| mikal | But it sounds like I am asking the wrong people | 20:42 |
| sdague | mikal: yeh, it feels like that other conversation is a bit premature. Of all the projects to move into release:free state, nova would not be my first pick | 20:43 |
| devananda | zehicle: or was it the dependency previously that trademark usage was pinned to integration status? | 20:43 |
| ttx | mikal: that's upto defcore, not us | 20:43 |
| devananda | *just that .. | 20:43 |
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| mikal | ttx: I thought defcore was about certifying the contents of the integrated release? | 20:43 |
| mikal | ttx: which is a thing the TC has historically designated? | 20:43 |
| ttx | mikal: err... no? | 20:43 |
| zehicle | sorry - did not mean to distract the agenda. | 20:44 |
| ttx | defcore is about what you need to implement to claim a trademark program usage | 20:44 |
| annegent_ | mikal: capabilities are defined by defcore | 20:44 |
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| ttx | i.e. what you need to do to call your stuff "openstack Compute powered" | 20:44 |
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| annegent_ | zehicle: I think it's important we all understand | 20:44 |
| ttx | they ask us for lists of projects, we provide said list. And they pick within it | 20:44 |
| mikal | Sure | 20:44 |
| zehicle | we recognize that DefCore is trailing | 20:44 |
| mikal | And isn't that list the integrated release? | 20:44 |
| russellb | what ttx said | 20:44 |
| devananda | ttx: defcore / the board has the responsibility to inform us / the TC of what we can change. ie, we can't remove an integrated project that defcore has already approved w/o their consent | 20:44 |
| devananda | ttx: so it would make sense IFF defcore cares about release cadence that they might have some input there. but I don't actually see why defcore would care about that yet. | 20:45 |
| ttx | devananda: "remove" | 20:45 |
| ttx | ? | 20:45 |
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| ttx | devananda: I totally agree that defcore needs to take a stance on what release model they would actually consider for theiur trademark programs | 20:46 |
| rockyg | Mikal: Defcore is about mature (*cough*), well adopted capabilities within the context of the OpenStack projects | 20:46 |
| devananda | ttx: not that we're discussing removing projects, but IIRC that was the only constraint defcore is able to place on the TC's integration (or non-integration) of projects | 20:46 |
| ttx | I just think this is orthogonal to the definition of tags | 20:46 |
| ttx | which are just an objective description of a curent situation | 20:46 |
| mikal | ttx: agreed | 20:46 |
| devananda | ttx: so it stands to me to reason that, IFF defcore cares about release cadence, we may both want their input and need to respect their requirements, should they have some | 20:46 |
| devananda | however that discussion is really premature | 20:46 |
| mikal | ttx: I am happy to handle my question elsewhere | 20:46 |
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| devananda | because so far they haven't expressed any such requirements | 20:46 |
| ttx | but yes, clarifying the various release models makes us realize there is a question that needs to be answered | 20:47 |
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| devananda | ttx: yup | 20:47 |
| ttx | for example, swift would be release:compatible | 20:47 |
| ttx | and it never bothered defcore so far | 20:47 |
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| ttx | release:free ? maybe they would object to that (I would) | 20:47 |
| ttx | I think at the very minimum release:compatible should be required | 20:47 |
| ttx | but then, not my decision to make | 20:48 |
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| ttx | I just want to provide the classification | 20:48 |
| ttx | and apply it to projects | 20:48 |
| ttx | so that they actually have that information :) | 20:48 |
| devananda | ++ | 20:48 |
| ttx | I'm pretty sure a lot of defcore people didn't even know that swift was different. | 20:48 |
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| ttx | anyway, we can iterate on the review | 20:49 |
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| ttx | another hot question, or should we move on ? | 20:49 |
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| mikal | Move on | 20:50 |
| annegent_ | I had one | 20:50 |
| mikal | Doh, sorry | 20:50 |
| * ttx reads comments from anne | 20:50 | |
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| annegent_ | oh I can keep commenting in the review | 20:50 |
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| annegent_ | s'okay to move on | 20:50 |
| ttx | annegent_: as-needed might exclude time-based-however-I-want-it | 20:50 |
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| mikal | How about "unrestrained"? | 20:51 |
| annegent_ | ttx: ok, does only the common and compatible tag holders get to pick dates? | 20:51 |
| ttx | I felt "free" was more open, as-needed seems to imply "only when necessary", which implied feature-based | 20:51 |
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| ttx | common = you follow the common cycle, whatever that ends up being | 20:51 |
| annegent_ | ttx: once you earn a tag, how long do you hold it? | 20:52 |
| ttx | annegent_: as long as that project chooses to use that release model | 20:52 |
| annegent_ | ttx: dates picked by common? | 20:52 |
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| ttx | This tag is not earned, it's just a factual dedc | 20:52 |
| ttx | desc | 20:52 |
| annegent_ | sure, should have written "apply" | 20:52 |
| annegent_ | what's the cycling for tag reapplication | 20:52 |
| ttx | If mikal tells me he switches nova to release:free and/or tags whenever he wants, tags will switch to release:free | 20:53 |
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| ttx | annegent_: it changes to reflect the current situation, whenever it changes | 20:53 |
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| annegent_ | ttx: should these details be documented in this patch? | 20:54 |
| ttx | it's not a badge, it's more like a box | 20:54 |
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| annegent_ | ttx: it's a sticker :) | 20:54 |
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| ttx | I think I make it pretty clear that it's a factual tag, but feel free to suggest alternate wording | 20:54 |
| devananda | annegent_: one doesnt 'apply for' these tags, and no one needs to vote on their application. | 20:54 |
| annegent_ | ttx: just making sure I understand | 20:54 |
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| ttx | annegent_: happy to talk to you off-meeting to clarify isf needed | 20:54 |
| devananda | annegent_: sticker could have the connotation of something you earn for meeting a certain criteria, which I dont think is the intent here | 20:54 |
| * ttx moves on | 20:55 | |
| ttx | follow-up on review | 20:55 |
| ttx | #topic Other governance changes | 20:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other governance changes (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:55 | |
| annegent_ | devananda: badge doesnt? | 20:55 |
| ttx | * Add Cinder's os-brick library to cinder (https://review.openstack.org/153673) | 20:55 |
| ttx | This one has 7 YES -- not a big fan of the os- prefix but I'm fine to be outnumbered | 20:55 |
| ttx | actually 8 YES | 20:55 |
| ttx | Approving now unless someone has a last-minute objection | 20:55 |
| ttx | * Adding Piet Kruithof as Horizon ATC (https://review.openstack.org/154271) | 20:55 |
| annegent_ | devananda: ah sorry, nevermind my words are not working :) | 20:55 |
| ttx | mikal spotted that Piet is not a Foundation member, which is a requirement to be an ATC (not a requirement to contribute, just a requirement to be an ATC and get a vote) | 20:55 |
| devananda | annegent_: np. happy to discuss postmeeting | 20:56 |
| mikal | Well he might be | 20:56 |
| mikal | But I can't find him | 20:56 |
| mikal | We should ask him | 20:56 |
| ttx | david-lyle: you mightj want to suggest him to join, or drop the request | 20:56 |
| russellb | nice attention to detail :) | 20:56 |
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| ttx | * Add board-owned openstack/defcore repository (https://review.openstack.org/155738) | 20:56 |
| david-lyle | I will track down | 20:56 |
| ttx | I'd like 7 YES on this one since it defines the concept of board-owned repositories to mirror the tc-owned ones | 20:56 |
| ttx | I think we should encourage the BoD to use git and Gerrit more, so I'm all +1 on this | 20:56 |
| mikal | david-lyle: I think him joining would be sufficient for my emotional needfs | 20:56 |
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| russellb | ttx: +1 | 20:57 |
| ttx | 6.. one more ? | 20:57 |
| ttx | 7, thx | 20:58 |
| russellb | otherwise this stuff will live in google docs | 20:58 |
| russellb | or private docs | 20:58 |
| sdague | yep, gerrit ftw | 20:58 |
| ttx | in hell! | 20:58 |
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| mikal | As long as those docs aren't in a private irc channel... | 20:58 |
| russellb | lol | 20:58 |
| mikal | :P | 20:58 |
| ttx | * Add ironic-lib to Ironic program (https://review.openstack.org/157757) | 20:58 |
| ttx | That one still could use some details on how ironic-specific those utilities are | 20:58 |
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| ttx | to make sure they aren't a better match for Oslo | 20:58 |
| mikal | I feel Jim's second argument there is weak | 20:58 |
| mikal | But yeah, all I want is some due dilligence there | 20:59 |
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| devananda | I should follow up between jroll and dhellmann on this | 20:59 |
| ttx | so let's keep that one up a bit more | 20:59 |
| mikal | Perhaps we could ask dhellmann to take a look? | 20:59 |
| ttx | #topic Housekeeping changes | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Housekeeping changes (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:59 | |
| sdague | yeh, though, honestly this has been a direction tons of projects are headed down | 20:59 |
| ttx | * Change TripleO PTL to James Slagle (https://review.openstack.org/157216) | 20:59 |
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| ttx | ^ obvious repo housekeeping, so I'll approve it now | 20:59 |
| ttx | * openstack-spec housekeeping (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/156717/) | 20:59 |
| lifeless | ttx: they can always move later, lets not let become too hidebound | 20:59 |
| ttx | ^ That one is on openstack-specs, not governance, will approve it now too | 20:59 |
| ttx | sceram if you disagree | 20:59 |
| sdague | we have keystonemiddleware, ceilometeremiddleware, for instance. Might be nice to name things better the *middlerware or *lib | 21:00 |
| ttx | * Build list of teams from YAML file (https://review.openstack.org/125788) | 21:00 |
| ttx | There was a nit on boilerplate there, maybe we can fast-fix it | 21:00 |
| devananda | sdague: short version is, I think, folks in Ironic just want to iterate on a lib that we use, without the process overhead of oslo, or waiting on oslo-incubator when none of us have core status there | 21:00 |
| ttx | Will approve later in the week once that's addressed | 21:00 |
| lifeless | sdague: now I want to have a bette-middlerware repo, just because | 21:00 |
| ttx | No time for open discussion | 21:00 |
| sdague | lifeless: :) | 21:00 |
| mordred | lifeless: wins | 21:00 |
| sdague | ttx: why do you hate open!?!?! | 21:01 |
| sdague | :) | 21:01 |
| annegent_ | :) | 21:01 |
| jeblair | lib is short for liberty, right? | 21:01 |
| ttx | ok, closing this one, thx everyone | 21:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| mikal | Bye! | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 24 21:01:36 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-02-24-20.02.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-02-24-20.02.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-02-24-20.02.log.html | 21:01 |
| ttx | courtesy PTL ping: dhellmann, morganfainberg, notmyname, eglynn, nikhil_k, thingee, asalkeld, david-lyle, mestery, SlickNik, SergeyLukjanov, mikal: around ? | 21:02 |
| eglynn | o/ | 21:02 |
| morganfainberg | o/ | 21:02 |
| david-lyle | o/ | 21:02 |
| mestery | o/ | 21:02 |
| sdague | ttx if there is time in the next meeting, I think client library semver might be a good discussion | 21:02 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 21:02 |
| asalkeld | o/ | 21:02 |
| ttx | sdague: ... maybe? | 21:02 |
| thingee | o/ | 21:02 |
| bknudson | hi | 21:02 |
| sdague | given the just broken icehouse tree on python-ceilometerclient | 21:02 |
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| ttx | sounds like a good PSA. If you can keep it short I can let you go first | 21:03 |
| ttx | #startmeeting crossproject | 21:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 24 21:03:09 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:03 | |
| sdague | sure | 21:03 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'crossproject' | 21:03 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 21:03 |
| jogo | sdague: ++ | 21:03 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting | 21:03 |
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| ttx | #topic PSA from the Gatekeepers | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PSA from the Gatekeepers (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:03 | |
| ttx | sdague: open fire | 21:03 |
| notmyname | here | 21:03 |
| sdague | so semver: X.Y.Z | 21:03 |
| sdague | the Z is meant to be extremely minor, guarunteed compatible changes | 21:04 |
| sdague | not just the next release | 21:04 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 21:04 |
| mtreinish | sdague: | 21:04 |
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| sdague | definitely not a new release that has non Z bumps of dependencies :) | 21:04 |
| mtreinish | well that's a paste buffer fail | 21:04 |
| ttx | yes, adding a dep is NOT minor | 21:04 |
| * devananda steps afk for a few minutes | 21:04 | |
| mtreinish | there it is: http://semver.org/ | 21:04 |
| sdague | or bumping keystoneclient a Y | 21:04 |
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| lifeless | its also in our pbr docs :) | 21:05 |
| bknudson | we're going to have a lot of Y.0s. | 21:05 |
| sdague | mtreinish: yep, good reference | 21:05 |
| ttx | lifeless: damn people don't read | 21:05 |
| lifeless | thats fine | 21:05 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, keystonelcient and middleware does have a lot of Y.0's | 21:05 |
| sdague | bknudson: fortunately, there is an infininite number of numbers | 21:05 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, for that reason. | 21:05 |
| sdague | so we have some room | 21:05 |
| mtreinish | bknudson: and that's fine | 21:05 |
| mikal | . | 21:06 |
| clarkb | sdague: thankfully they are countably infinite | 21:06 |
| ttx | sdague: more on that topic ? | 21:06 |
| sdague | ttx: just that a lot of library releases recently have been defaulting to Z bumps | 21:06 |
| sdague | and broken things pretty badly in the process | 21:06 |
| ttx | question is... is that just a mistake, or were they thinking it really was only worth a Z ? | 21:07 |
| sdague | so please really think about that, python-ceilometerclient was the latest one | 21:07 |
| mtreinish | ttx: probably worth point out: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-February/057699.html | 21:07 |
| sdague | right, I don't know | 21:07 |
| lifeless | I might up-prioritise teh pbr semver finalisation | 21:07 |
| lifeless | which will go a long way to fixing this | 21:07 |
| ttx | because it feels like 75% of them are wrong | 21:07 |
| bknudson | there's no review of release #s... just update the tag... seems easy to make a mistake. | 21:07 |
| ttx | if only we could review the proposed tag | 21:07 |
| * eglynn puts hand up ... the python-ceiloclient was a thought-fail on my part | 21:07 | |
| sdague | anyway, mostly a PSA, so we try to do less of it in the future | 21:07 |
| sdague | and I'm done | 21:08 |
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| lifeless | I think its worth a -dev mail | 21:08 |
| lifeless | would you like me to send one? | 21:08 |
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| sdague | lifeless: sure | 21:08 |
| ttx | lifeless: can't hurt | 21:08 |
| ttx | alright, back to our regular schedule | 21:08 |
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| ttx | #topic Proposed evolution in release management tracking for Liberty | 21:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Proposed evolution in release management tracking for Liberty (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:08 | |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Release_Cycle_Management/Liberty_Tracking | 21:08 |
| * devananda returns from afk | 21:08 | |
| ttx | So this is the result of a long discussion I had with various PTLs and release liaisons over the Kilo cycle | 21:08 |
| ttx | Basically, we spend a lot of time and 1:1 syncs trying to craft a prediction of what will land in the next milestone | 21:09 |
| ttx | And most of the time that prediction is blatantly false (we postpone a lot of stuff) and useless (nobody really consumes it) | 21:09 |
| ttx | In particular, product managers appear to be more interested in a general idea of what's being worked on and its completion rate | 21:09 |
| ttx | ...rather than a failed attempt at listing milestone we hope that will land | 21:09 |
| ttx | So as far as release tracking is concerned, the idea would be to focus on communicating what landed at each milestone / release | 21:09 |
| ttx | And then, encourage assignees to directly update the completion rate of their features on the blueprint page | 21:09 |
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| ttx | That doesn't prevent teams from having cycle goals and specifically track those | 21:10 |
| ttx | But as far as release management is concerned I would only focus on what actually landed | 21:10 |
| ttx | ...since my influence on what gets done everywhere appears to have... diluted | 21:10 |
| ttx | Also note that this proposed change is orthogonal to the idea of reorganizing development cycles which is the new ML hotness | 21:10 |
| ttx | Even if we switched to releasing more often, release management would still focus on what was done and what people are working on | 21:10 |
| ttx | ...leaving goal setting and prioritization to each project team | 21:11 |
| ttx | That should all free up more time to provide project teams with useful tools to facilitate their own tracking | 21:11 |
| asalkeld | ttx: sounds like a great direction IMO | 21:11 |
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| ttx | How does that evolution sound ? | 21:11 |
| devananda | +100 | 21:11 |
| zaneb | +1 I never understood how being able to predict accurately what would be in the release the day before the release was helpful to anyone | 21:11 |
| morganfainberg | wfm | 21:11 |
| ttx | zaneb: we used to be good at prediction | 21:11 |
| rockyg | ttx: ++ | 21:11 |
| *** baoli has quit IRC | 21:11 | |
| ttx | when I was more deeply involved in each project | 21:12 |
| nikhil_k | +1 | 21:12 |
| ttx | but that doesn't scale | 21:12 |
| ttx | Also I originally thought downstream users were consuming our per-milestone predictions, but apparently they are not | 21:12 |
| morganfainberg | we need ttx clones for that to scale :P | 21:12 |
| ttx | Maybe it's because those are unreliable, maybe that was never an interesting piece of info | 21:12 |
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| ttx | Anyway, focusing on setting goals/priorities, listing what's being worked on and tracking what actually landed sounds like a better use of our collective time | 21:12 |
| jokke_ | +1 | 21:12 |
| jungleboyj | ttx +1 | 21:12 |
| zaneb | ttx ++ | 21:12 |
| jroll | +1 | 21:12 |
| david-lyle | +1 | 21:12 |
| devananda | fwiw, I've started dragging BadCub into doing PM work for us (Ironic) | 21:12 |
| eglynn | +1 | 21:12 |
| devananda | morganfainberg: ++ for ttx clones | 21:13 |
| ttx | Also we'd still track RC bugs the same way we always did. This is just about meilstone targeting of stuff and keeping that accurate all the time | 21:13 |
| ttx | anyway, we'd start that for Liberty | 21:13 |
| notmyname | ttx: on that linked wiki page, you propose dropping 1:1s. but you didn't mentione that just now | 21:13 |
| jokke_ | ttx: getting too big to be fully up to date with everything? :P | 21:14 |
| ttx | right... 1:1s were mostly used to make sure the milestoen page is up to date | 21:14 |
| ttx | notmyname: I think two of them differed | 21:14 |
| nikhil_k | I see a lot of value in 1:1 or some place to be able to do so | 21:14 |
| ttx | The oslo one where I would actually coordinate release processes with Doug | 21:14 |
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| ttx | The swift one where we would exchange on what's going on in swift | 21:14 |
| notmyname | I have found the weekly 1:1s to be useful and helpful | 21:15 |
| devananda | ttx: I get value out of our 1:1's - but it's not in keeping the milestone page up to date ahead of time. | 21:15 |
| ttx | Not exactly sure yet but I'll probably keep syncing with oslo and other delegated release teams | 21:15 |
| rockyg | Having the equivalent of 1:1s with the PMs of any project that has them would go a long ways | 21:15 |
| thingee | ttx: +1 | 21:15 |
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| ttx | notmyname: I feel like it's the wrong forum to communicate though | 21:15 |
| ttx | I see value in regular touch points on project status | 21:16 |
| ttx | as a lightweight way to give a general idea of where you stand, without formal status reports | 21:16 |
| rockyg | Release/PM liasons | 21:16 |
| notmyname | ttx: the regularly scheduled time was the most helpful part. if we're going to regularly communicate, that's hard without a formal time. in part because we're in such different time zones | 21:16 |
| ttx | but i'm not sure that has much to do with release management vs. general comm | 21:16 |
| ttx | Most of the 1:1s end up being completely useless | 21:17 |
| notmyname | I'd agree it's general communication more than release managerment (for me/swift) | 21:17 |
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| ttx | like .. let's see your milestona page, hmm.. keep up the good work... next | 21:17 |
| notmyname | well, I do like the rest of the proposal to track reality instead of predictions :-) | 21:17 |
| ttx | swift version: "any idea when your next release will be ? no... ok next | 21:18 |
| david-lyle | information that used to be covered in the project meeting was relegated to the 1:1, where now? | 21:18 |
| ttx | anyway, not totally sure how i'll evolve the format of 1:1s | 21:18 |
| notmyname | to be fair, very few swift 1:1s have been like that :-) | 21:18 |
| ttx | but I note that some of you like them enough to ask that they stay | 21:18 |
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| thingee | Generally I've communicated in these meetings deadline dates to ttx. Advice on actions or how courageous I want to be in a milestone have came from chats with previous PTL's or TC | 21:19 |
| ttx | they just are vbery costly in time for me | 21:19 |
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| notmyname | ttx: realize that you've got a bunch of tech people actually asking for regular meetings. this is crazy! | 21:19 |
| ttx | maybe we could mix several projects and do them at the same time | 21:19 |
| ttx | like a morning slot and an end of day slots | 21:19 |
| jokke_ | ttx is using some kind of black magic | 21:19 |
| ttx | (would avoid me repeating the same "warning, kilo-3 coming up" to 12 different projects) | 21:20 |
| mestery | ttx: ++ to that idea! | 21:20 |
| jokke_ | ttx: you should be able to write really simple script to do that :D | 21:20 |
| ttx | #action ttx to think about evolving 1:1 sync rather than removing them | 21:20 |
| rockyg | Instead of project meeting, have a release meeting slot and anyone who wants to discuss the release schedule/status shows up | 21:21 |
| notmyname | I'd worry about bystander effect where something isn't said because of other people talking or waiting for someone else to say something (if they became 1:*s instead of 1:1s) | 21:21 |
| rockyg | But leave project meeting. | 21:21 |
| notmyname | but that can probably be dealt with | 21:21 |
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| ttx | OK, let's move on, i'll think about it and propose on the ML | 21:21 |
| david-lyle | I'm ok with their removal, I would like to have perhaps some common reminders at the beginning of this meeting | 21:21 |
| SergeyLukjanov | probably all ptls could prepare a weekly report weekly to share status | 21:21 |
| ttx | just wanted to see if the general direction was good or not | 21:21 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, like moving part of the responsibility to ptls | 21:21 |
| notmyname | 1:1s not as a release thing but as a "communicate with the chair of the TC" thing | 21:22 |
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| devananda | notmyname: ++ | 21:22 |
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| ttx | could do formlal offie hours | 21:22 |
| devananda | also as a collective body of notes afterwards of what each PTL thought worth sharing | 21:22 |
| ttx | formal* office* | 21:22 |
| notmyname | PTLs responsible (more) for releases and release tracking. 1:1s for communicating that to the rest of the openstack org | 21:22 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, that probably is a good compromise | 21:22 |
| morganfainberg | it lets us quickly sync up as needed but not mandate it if nothing needs ot be said | 21:23 |
| notmyname | devananda: +1 | 21:23 |
| ttx | ack | 21:23 |
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| rockyg | And if there are no updates for the week, PTL responsible for cancelling 1:1 | 21:23 |
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| ttx | ok, moving on | 21:24 |
| ttx | #topic openstack-specs discussion | 21:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "openstack-specs discussion (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:24 | |
| ttx | * Add TRACE definition to log guidelines (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145245) | 21:24 |
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| ttx | This one should be ready to move to final approval at next week TC meeting | 21:24 |
| ttx | Minor nits can be fixed on subsequent patches | 21:24 |
| ttx | so if you disagree, file your -1 asap | 21:24 |
| ttx | otherwise I'll have it rubberstamped by the tc next sweek | 21:24 |
| ttx | or week | 21:24 |
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| ttx | * Cross-Project spec to eliminate SQL Schema Downgrades (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/152337/) | 21:25 |
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| ttx | This one may be ready too. Just needs to pile up approvals on the latest patchset. If it gets enough I'll put it on next week TC agenda as well | 21:25 |
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| ttx | mikal: if you still ahve an objection you might want to repost it | 21:25 |
| ttx | * Eventlet Best Practices (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/154642/) | 21:26 |
| ttx | So for this one, some people are wondering if openstack-specs is the right place | 21:26 |
| ttx | Sounds like development tips and tricks rather than an actionable change or transition | 21:26 |
| ttx | what do you all think ? | 21:26 |
| morganfainberg | this feels like a devleoper doc? not a "things for people to do" | 21:26 |
| morganfainberg | so. -specs is a little odd imo | 21:26 |
| ttx | do we have a place for general development tips ? | 21:26 |
| bknudson | wiki | 21:26 |
| ttx | apart from undiscoverable wiki pages ? | 21:27 |
| mtreinish | ttx: blog posts? | 21:27 |
| ttx | mtreinish: maybe | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | I think the source of this is in Oslo where we've started moving some of our "policies" that don't correspond to direct actions into the specs repo where we can vote on them, rather than just having them in the wiki. | 21:27 |
| jokke_ | ttx: I think that should be in wiki not in the OS-specs | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | bnemec may just move this to the oslo.concurrency docs, but wanted a little more visibility to start | 21:28 |
| sdague | nova has a devref section, it might be a good thing to propose a wider version of that | 21:28 |
| dhellmann | but in general Oslo is not adding a lot of content to the wiki these days, because we're finding lib and spec repos better at hosting them | 21:28 |
| dhellmann | sdague: good idea, maybe you can leave that comment on the spec if you haven't already? | 21:29 |
| devananda | ttx: on the sql downgrades spec, do we actually have sufficient feedback from operators to know that they aren't going to rage when we do that? | 21:29 |
| rockyg | The results belong in developer docs, including reviewer checklists, but the discussion and final resolution that leads to the docs needs a home | 21:29 |
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| bknudson | so openstack-specs becomes a cross-project developer docs? | 21:29 |
| sdague | dhellmann: yeh, will do | 21:29 |
| dhellmann | sdague: thanks | 21:29 |
| ttx | hrm, looks like I have network issues | 21:29 |
| jokke_ | rockyg & all: do we need devdocs repo? | 21:29 |
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| ttx | If I disappear, someone can take over the meeting agenda and finish it | 21:30 |
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| sdague | bknudson: no, I'm suggesting there is something else that we need. devref at a global level | 21:30 |
| morganfainberg | devananda, i would like to hold off until post operator summit in philly (cc ttx) for the downgrade thing | 21:30 |
| morganfainberg | see if we can get some more feedback directly | 21:30 |
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| sdague | morganfainberg: good idea | 21:30 |
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| morganfainberg | if someone who is going to be there can poke at people | 21:30 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: maybe? since they were sort of "guidelines" we thought this would be a good place to get reviews | 21:30 |
| morganfainberg | since i will not be at the operator summit | 21:30 |
| rockyg | like sdague said, devref for all O.O projects | 21:30 |
| sdague | morganfainberg: I can bring it up | 21:30 |
| morganfainberg | s/summit/midcycle | 21:30 |
| morganfainberg | sdague, thanks | 21:30 |
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| sdague | morganfainberg: can you poke Tom about it, so he can figure out where on the agenda it should go | 21:31 |
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| morganfainberg | yes will do | 21:31 |
| ttx | morganfainberg: ok, could you annotate the review as such ? like -1ing it so that I don't miss it ? | 21:31 |
| bknudson | I feel like a cross-project devref has been discussed before... | 21:31 |
| morganfainberg | he's usually awake late pacific time, right? | 21:31 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, will do. | 21:31 |
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| devananda | morganfainberg: ++. or even until post-summit | 21:31 |
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| ttx | So back to central devref... I'll kick off a thread on that | 21:32 |
| morganfainberg | devananda, i think this is a case where the operator focused thing at philly will be easier to get clear feedback that an the summit. but in either case. | 21:32 |
| ttx | #action ttx to start thread on central devref for "Eventlet Best Practices" like things | 21:32 |
| dhellmann | ttx: if we think that's a good idea, I can propose creating a repository | 21:32 |
| morganfainberg | devananda, a minor delay would be good *kicks that enter key* | 21:33 |
| ttx | dhellmann: you take the action ? | 21:33 |
| dhellmann | ttx: sure | 21:33 |
| ttx | I'd rather have athread first | 21:33 |
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| dhellmann | #action dhellmann start thread on publishing a central developer reference | 21:33 |
| ttx | to check if the idea is good before moving to implementation | 21:33 |
| ttx | * Add library stable release procedures/policy (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/155072/) | 21:33 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: up to introducing that one ? | 21:34 |
| bknudson | I like the idea of a cross-project devref... would make it easier to see where projects have diverged and could consolidate. | 21:34 |
| dhellmann | ttx: sure | 21:34 |
| dhellmann | this spec is related to the requirements management changes we've made, where we are now capping libraries in stable branches | 21:34 |
| dhellmann | in the past, we've not had stable branches for the clients and we've only had them for some oslo libraries | 21:35 |
| dhellmann | my proposal is that since we are now capping all libraries, we should have stable branches for all of them and do backports | 21:35 |
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| ttx | rare backports | 21:35 |
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| dhellmann | sdague brought up semver earlier in the meeting, and this assumes we're all following the semver rules | 21:35 |
| ttx | as in security-fix-backports | 21:35 |
| dhellmann | right, or serious crashes or something | 21:35 |
| dhellmann | not features | 21:35 |
| ttx | or OMG-that-bug-eats-my-data-backport | 21:36 |
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| jogo | dhellmann: would these stable branches be lazy created, as on only made when needed? | 21:36 |
| dhellmann | jogo: in order for some of the CI jobs to work correctly, we need to create them all proactively | 21:36 |
| bknudson | we haven't done security fix backports for clients... also I'm not sure that packagers would pick the same version # for their packages... | 21:36 |
| dhellmann | jogo: some of the jobs do things like check out stable/foo and fall back to master | 21:36 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, i've been thinking that stable client branches might need to occur in general. | 21:36 |
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| dhellmann | morganfainberg: right, that would be part of this, too | 21:37 |
| bknudson | if we did happen to pick the same version to ship with the release then having security backports would be nice. | 21:37 |
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| morganfainberg | it would actually solve an issue i have with keystoneclient | 21:37 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: well, the idea is we would start saying "inside your cloud, use these versions of the client; outside of your cloud use whatever you want" | 21:37 |
| ttx | bknudson: distros increment their side of the version number, not ours | 21:37 |
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| morganfainberg | because then we could easily remove things that are moribund / bit rotting after a reasonable time | 21:37 |
| jogo | dhellmann: hmm, it may be easier to change the tests versus creating all those branches when most wont be used | 21:37 |
| morganfainberg | rather than carrying it indefinitely | 21:37 |
| morganfainberg | it changes how clients can be viewed overall | 21:38 |
| dhellmann | jogo: most of this can be automated, and the work is distributed among all of the teams, so I don't think it's going to be that much work | 21:38 |
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| rockyg | morganfainberg: +1 | 21:38 |
| dhellmann | if we delay creating the branches, then fixing a critical bug becomes a big infra push instead of just a patch in the right place | 21:38 |
| jogo | dhellmann: true | 21:38 |
| dhellmann | fewer people have the ACLs to create branches than approve backports | 21:39 |
| jokke_ | how about <next minor and the next lib/client release after RC1 needs to bump minor? | 21:39 |
| dhellmann | so it just becomes part of our end-of-cycle release process, and most teams only have one or two anyway -- oslo is going to be impacted the most | 21:39 |
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| dhellmann | jokke_: I have some timing details in the proposal | 21:40 |
| lifeless | mail sent on semver | 21:40 |
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| jokke_ | that would leave the X.Y.<what-ever-needed> as "stable" branch of lib | 21:40 |
| dhellmann | we'll synchronize using the global requirements caps | 21:40 |
| dhellmann | jokke_: yes, that's the idea | 21:40 |
| dhellmann | oslo has been doing this, so the proposal is just to expand it to everyone else now, too | 21:41 |
| sdague | so, I actually think the issue is g-r sync with libraries | 21:41 |
| jokke_ | dhellmann: ++ | 21:41 |
| sdague | because g-r works really well when everything releases all at once | 21:41 |
| sdague | but with adhoc releasing, we can see how it breaks down | 21:41 |
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| sdague | and the adhoc releasing has been really good for other reasons, but put new strains on the old system that didn't anticipate it | 21:42 |
| bknudson | dhellmann: have you had a security backport? I don't think I've seen one. | 21:42 |
| jokke_ | dhellmann: although that saves us only on OS ... wish we could expand that to 3rd parties as well :P | 21:42 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: we haven't had a security issue, but we did have some backports of bug fixes into juno | 21:42 |
| jogo | sdague: and g-r artificially bumps minimums for a lot of things | 21:42 |
| ttx | so.. please provide comments on that review if you care | 21:42 |
| dhellmann | right | 21:43 |
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| ttx | unless there are more pressing questions/comments on this one, I propose we move on ? | 21:43 |
| ttx | taking silence as yes | 21:44 |
| ttx | * Replace eventlet with asyncio (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/153298/) vs. Replace eventlet + monkey-patching with threads (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/156711) | 21:44 |
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| ttx | So those are two competing way forward on how to move from eventlet | 21:44 |
| ttx | even if we did not formally decide to move on | 21:44 |
| ttx | I think it's not bad to lay the options out there | 21:44 |
| asalkeld | option 3 == stay with eventlet | 21:44 |
| devananda | ttx: on this, I'm not yet convinced that there's significant enough benefit for us to mandate a whole bunch of work when, yea, we haven't even agreed that we need to move on right now | 21:45 |
| ttx | I think both are missing an analysis of the switching cost and a perf analysis | 21:45 |
| bknudson | keystone went to running server in apache httpd... instead. | 21:45 |
| morganfainberg | asalkeld, option 4 == mod_wsgi/uwsgi/unicorns | 21:45 |
| dhellmann | the issues with eventlet that caused us to start this discussion (the python 3 support) are getting better, but are still not 100% resolved afaik | 21:45 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, ++ and we're slating a deprecation of eventlet this cycle and complete removal in M | 21:45 |
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| sdague | morganfainberg: mod_wsgi works less well for non API services | 21:46 |
| ttx | devananda: yes, I agree with you | 21:46 |
| morganfainberg | sdague, fair point | 21:46 |
| ttx | just wondering what to do with those | 21:46 |
| devananda | sdague: ++ | 21:46 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ++ on the performance analysis. I think haypo is working on a version of ceilometer that doesn't need eventlet as a demo of the scale of changes that need to be made. | 21:46 |
| sdague | the fact that keystone has no workers makes it special in that way | 21:46 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ++ for perf analysis | 21:46 |
| ttx | I liked zzzek(sp?) analysis | 21:46 |
| devananda | ironic-api works fine in apache mod_wsgi, but the bulk of our work (like nova) is not in the API service | 21:46 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, a few more eees in there but close enough. | 21:46 |
| eglynn | one clear difference between the options IIUC is that the asyncio plan involves limiting the initial change to oslo-messaging and ceilometer | 21:46 |
| eglynn | (or some subset thereof) | 21:46 |
| dhellmann | yeah, we recognize that any solution has to support WSGI, SQLAlchemy, and the message bus | 21:47 |
| eglynn | whereas the threads apprach would require an audit across all projects | 21:47 |
| devananda | is this actually about performance at all? | 21:47 |
| * asalkeld not crazy about asyncio | 21:47 | |
| devananda | or just about py3 support (or lack thereof) | 21:47 |
| eglynn | more correctness than perf | 21:47 |
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| ttx | The only benefit I see to syncio is that it's the "future in Python" | 21:47 |
| ttx | asyncio* | 21:47 |
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| dhellmann | eglynn: well, that initial proposal is just to give people an idea of the changes, but would eventually apply to all projects | 21:47 |
| dhellmann | devananda: mostly py3 and developer issues, but we don't want performance to degrade heavily | 21:48 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: true, once proven out to some extent presumably | 21:48 |
| morganfainberg | if eventlet grows py3 support - there is no reason we can't stay with it. It does obscure things in wierd ways because of the monkey patching, where asyncio is explicit development [afaict] | 21:48 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: right | 21:48 |
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| morganfainberg | so, it becomes the question of "which way do we want to go" | 21:48 |
| eglynn | unfortunately haypo doesn't seem to be around to represent the asyncio case | 21:48 |
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| dhellmann | morganfainberg: the monkey-patching is starting to cause conflicts with import order in some of the applications | 21:48 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, aye. | 21:48 |
| sdague | eventlet 0.17.0 (released yesterday) is passing all it's tests on py3 | 21:48 |
| sdague | fwiw | 21:48 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, as said because monkeypatching is wierd. | 21:48 |
| dhellmann | we had a bug filed against oslo.concurrency, let me see if I can find that | 21:48 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, actually we hit something in keystone regarding log stuff and threading.lock issues | 21:49 |
| devananda | moving away from monkey patching would be great. but is it worth a massive amount of work? I dunno -- seems like a per-project decision | 21:49 |
| ttx | I don't expect us to settle it in the next 10 minutes... I just wonder what to exactly do with those | 21:49 |
| devananda | not something we should be mandating | 21:49 |
| jogo | so this sounds like something that we may not need to have a openstack wide decision on | 21:49 |
| dhellmann | sdague: yeah, I haven't looked yet to see if their py3 support now monkeypatches everything. At one point it didn't. | 21:49 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, it has a lot of subtle pitfalls | 21:49 |
| jokke_ | devananda: ++ | 21:49 |
| jogo | not sure what the risk is for projects each doing there own thing. | 21:49 |
| dhellmann | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/oslo.concurrency/+bug/1418541 | 21:50 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1418541 in neutron "processutils checks whether stdlib is monkey patched during import" [Undecided,Fix committed] - Assigned to Ihar Hrachyshka (ihar-hrachyshka) | 21:50 |
| bknudson | if it works really great for ceilometer or whoever picks it then that can convince others. | 21:50 |
| sdague | jogo: that was one of the reasons I think there should be a higher level statement of some sort | 21:50 |
| dhellmann | jogo: well, for one thing we don't want to have to support all of the various options in oslo | 21:50 |
| eglynn | jogo: difficulty in on-boarding devs moving between projects for one thing | 21:50 |
| jokke_ | jogo: I guess we will see in a while after we get the feedback from keystone apache trial ;) | 21:50 |
| sdague | eglynn: yes, exactly | 21:50 |
| devananda | dhellmann: if oslo switches, what is the immediate impact to projects? | 21:50 |
| dhellmann | because we don't want to have to have forks of libs for eventlet, asyncio, and threading support | 21:50 |
| ttx | yeah, I'm not very excited at the prospect to learn 5 different async models | 21:50 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, ++ | 21:50 |
| sdague | eglynn: also, the difficulty for ops to track down issues | 21:50 |
| morganfainberg | jokke_, we have recommended apache be used for 4 cycles now, and most scaled up deployments use it. so i think the feedback has been "yep this is working" ;) | 21:51 |
| jogo | eglynn: I would be really surprised if having multiple options would make moving between projects harder | 21:51 |
| notmyname | is anyone else concerned that the 2 projects that are proposing to be test cases for dropping eventlet have plugins (middleware) for every other project? | 21:51 |
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| jogo | dhellmann: yeah that is fair | 21:51 |
| ttx | think about those of us that are cross-project, and how to facilitate their work rather than complicate it | 21:51 |
| dhellmann | devananda: I want Oslo to push for a decision, but follow the overall project on this. | 21:51 |
| devananda | dhellmann: I'm guessing it would break them. which means coordinating the roll-out of that change in oslo becomes a support headache | 21:51 |
| morganfainberg | jokke_, and devstack defaults to apache for keystone too | 21:51 |
| sdague | if every project has different concurrency models | 21:51 |
| devananda | dhellmann: which means oslo can't make the change unless every project agrees? | 21:51 |
| devananda | I hope I'm wrong on that | 21:51 |
| ttx | i mean, I'm fine with migrating from one to another, but not very thrilled at the idea of encouraging everyone to pick | 21:51 |
| eglynn | jogo: a lot of the perceived problem is the subtle bugs that arise, and each approach has a different class of subtle pitfalls IIUC | 21:51 |
| dhellmann | devananda: oslo.messaging already supports both threads and eventlet, but the application has to invoke it differently | 21:51 |
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| bknudson | does having keystone running in httpd cause cross-project problems? | 21:51 |
| jogo | well we are really taking about 3 models? thread based (putting mod_wsgi in here), eventlet, asynicio | 21:52 |
| bknudson | we're kind of stuck since we need apache for federation. | 21:52 |
| dhellmann | so we're not going to just say "oslo is doing this" and start breaking things -- that's why we're having this as a cross-project discussion instead of an oslo spec | 21:52 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, as far as i know there are minor issues with docs and questions about restarting keystone. but largely no. | 21:52 |
| bknudson | I know it makes the test logs kind of iffy. | 21:52 |
| sdague | jogo: mod_wsgi really is a 4th thing, as it's process forks | 21:52 |
| devananda | dhellmann: gotcha | 21:52 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, and logging is ... well logging. | 21:52 |
| ttx | jogo: so we'd say "one of those" rather than "whatever you want" ? | 21:52 |
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| jogo | ttx: sure | 21:52 |
| devananda | sdague: mod_wsgi is orthogonal since it doesn't address non-API services | 21:52 |
| ttx | jogo: sounds slightly better | 21:52 |
| sdague | devananda: sure | 21:53 |
| dhellmann | sdague, jogo : I'm lumping "wsgi" into one thing, since it really shouldn't matter to the code which container it's running in | 21:53 |
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| sdague | bknudson: wsgi should be fine for API surfaces | 21:53 |
| morganfainberg | sdague, i would say wsgi would be a good choice for api surfaces. typically would be my choice if I could encourage all the projects to move that way. | 21:53 |
| morganfainberg | sdague, but that is a tall order as well | 21:53 |
| devananda | morganfainberg: ++ for api surfaces | 21:54 |
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| dhellmann | morganfainberg: all of our rest APIs are WSGI now, served with the eventlet WSGI container. We should be able to plug them into something else if we stop using eventlet. | 21:54 |
| dhellmann | unless you found out otherwise in keystone? | 21:54 |
| ttx | hmm, so rather than dive more into details... what is the way forward for these specs ? Iterate until they ahve a clearer cost/benefit analysis ? | 21:54 |
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| devananda | dhellmann: you probably already said it, but what's the impact on oslo to (continue) support(ing) both eventlet and asyncio? | 21:54 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, i meand mod_wsgi sorry missed a 'mod_' in there. mod_wsgi/uwsgi/unicorns | 21:54 |
| bknudson | we've got separate launchers, one for eventlet-server and one for apache. | 21:55 |
| jogo | ttx: I like sdague's idea of a higher level spec of some sort | 21:55 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, but yeah there is some magic needing in some cases because things are... well.. odd with eventlet | 21:55 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yeah, it would be good if folks would post some of these questions on the specs so the authors know what sort of additional research is needed | 21:55 |
| ttx | jogo: agree -- the need to change and the options | 21:55 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, so there is a bit of extra wrapping needed in most cases. | 21:55 |
| dhellmann | morganfainberg: right, that's why we want to stop using eventlet :-) | 21:55 |
| jogo | having a single spec with all the recommended options, along with tradeoffs, would be a nice end result | 21:55 |
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| morganfainberg | :-) | 21:55 |
| dhellmann | sdague: what higher level spec would you want to see? | 21:56 |
| bknudson | here's the keystone launchers: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/tree/keystone/server | 21:56 |
| ttx | sdague: would you take the action of suggesting a meta spec and/or merging the options into a metaspec ? | 21:56 |
| sdague | dhellmann: well, a statement of direction of where we are headed | 21:56 |
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| sdague | because "in all the directions" seems ... unproductive | 21:56 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I think both options need to tackle the cost/benefit analysis for change | 21:56 |
| dhellmann | sdague: we have 2 competing proposals and we want folks to express opinions between them. Does a meta-spec make that easier? | 21:57 |
| sdague | ttx: honestly, I'm not sure I'm a good person to do that, I'm mostly just asking questions. | 21:57 |
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| ttx | ok, I'll take it | 21:57 |
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| sdague | dhellmann: oh, I'm fine with the existing proposals to flesh this out | 21:57 |
| ttx | #action ttx to suggest some metaspec on the various async potential plans | 21:57 |
| sdague | sorry, I didn't mean we needed a 3rd thing to explore that | 21:57 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: so I'd like to get rid of the message bus as it stands today; its a source of bugs (they way we use it, not it per se) | 21:57 |
| sdague | I think we need to be driving to a set of project wide guidelines at the end of the day | 21:57 |
| dhellmann | yeah, ok, I think ttx misunderstood? or maybe he wants it? | 21:57 |
| ttx | I think they can all work on the same spec with options | 21:57 |
| dhellmann | lifeless: that is a whole different spec | 21:58 |
| sdague | and a whole different set of bugs :) | 21:58 |
| lifeless | jogo: the risk is having different constraints placed on oslo | 21:58 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ok, the template has a single proposal section, so I suggested the two camps write separate specs | 21:58 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: I'm fine with bending the template on that specific case | 21:58 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: yes, I know it is. Just catching up as quickly as I can w/backlog | 21:58 |
| ttx | still a long way to go anyway | 21:59 |
| dhellmann | I thought we'd roll the rejected one into the approved one as a proposed alternative, at the end, but whatever you like is fine | 21:59 |
| dhellmann | lifeless: ok | 21:59 |
| ttx | There was a last spec on the docker: | 21:59 |
| ttx | docket* | 21:59 |
| ttx | freudian slip | 21:59 |
| dhellmann | heh | 21:59 |
| ttx | * Return request ID to caller (https://review.openstack.org/156508) -- proposer not able to attend, please provide feedback on spec | 21:59 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion & announcements | 21:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion & announcements (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:59 | |
| ttx | We had 1:1s syncs today in #openstack-relmgr-office, logs at: | 21:59 |
| ttx | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ptl_sync/2015/ptl_sync.2015-02-24-09.04.html | 21:59 |
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| ttx | (that last spec above is about cross-project request ID tracking) | 22:00 |
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| ttx | (which is definitely a good thing to have) | 22:00 |
| notmyname | ttx: seems to be cinder-specific | 22:00 |
| rockyg | Operators really need something in that area | 22:00 |
| ttx | notmyname: yeah, I was a bit confused at first read | 22:00 |
| ttx | seems to start general and then be only cinder | 22:01 |
| mtreinish | ttx: there was previous work on that at some point | 22:01 |
| jokke_ | who ever is attending to that ops meetup ... get them to comment in as well | 22:01 |
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| sdague | do we have some history for why that was landed here? | 22:01 |
| rockyg | jokke_: good point | 22:01 |
| sdague | thingee: ? | 22:01 |
| ttx | sdague: nope | 22:01 |
| jungleboyj | notmyname: It started in Cinder, I believe, but as it has been further investigated it is broader. | 22:01 |
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| ttx | probably needs to be less cindery | 22:02 |
| rockyg | I think it was because a change in one project would cascade to others | 22:02 |
| ttx | anyway, time is up | 22:02 |
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| jungleboyj | Requires changes in Nova and anyone else using cinder | 22:02 |
| ttx | thx everyone! | 22:02 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 24 22:02:28 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:02 |
| jokke_ | thnx | 22:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-02-24-21.03.html | 22:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-02-24-21.03.txt | 22:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-02-24-21.03.log.html | 22:02 |
| jungleboyj | Thanks! | 22:02 |
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| sdague | jungleboyj: I think that's just a do it sort of thing, honestly | 22:02 |
| jungleboyj | sdague: I agree. I think it needs to be done. | 22:03 |
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| jungleboyj | sdague: Multiple moving parts to coordinate though. | 22:03 |
| sdague | actually, I'm not even sure what needs to be done. I'd assume cinderclient would do the request id logging, which would be in the consumer | 22:03 |
| sdague | maybe I'm missing something | 22:04 |
| rockyg | Yeah a general spec that all projects agree to would keep all the efforts synced | 22:04 |
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| jungleboyj | sdague: I haven't looked in a while. I think the problem is that we need to change the format of the body so that the request-id is sent along. | 22:05 |
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| jungleboyj | sdague: The question is how to coordinate things so that we can do that without breaking other projects. | 22:06 |
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