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| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 08:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 27 08:00:34 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:00 |
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| anteaya | hello | 08:00 |
| anteaya | raise your hand if you are here for the third-party meeting | 08:01 |
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| jyuso1 | anteaya: hi:) | 08:05 |
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| anteaya | jyuso1: hello | 08:06 |
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| anteaya | I met Yunhong Jiang today | 08:06 |
| anteaya | he is at the nova mid-cycle | 08:07 |
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| jyuso1 | anteaya: oh,yes,he is in our team.I've heard about your meeting:) | 08:07 |
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| anteaya | great | 08:08 |
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| anteaya | so we talked about nfv testing today | 08:08 |
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| jyuso1 | anteaya: about nfv ci? | 08:09 |
| anteaya | yes we talked about the status of testing nfv | 08:10 |
| anteaya | so I talked about what I knew about your system | 08:10 |
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| anteaya | because it is my understanding that you are working to test nfv | 08:10 |
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| anteaya | jyuso1: am I correct? | 08:14 |
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| jyuso1 | anteaya: sorry,I don't know the nfv testing details in fact. | 08:15 |
| anteaya | jyuso1: okay great | 08:15 |
| anteaya | who might? | 08:15 |
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| anteaya | might that be adrian? | 08:15 |
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| jyuso1 | anteaya: may be heyongli know something about it. | 08:16 |
| anteaya | jyuso1: okay | 08:16 |
| anteaya | well nova people are curious | 08:17 |
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| anteaya | so if someone from your team started attending the nfv meeting | 08:17 |
| anteaya | that would be great | 08:17 |
| * anteaya gets link | 08:17 | |
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| jyuso1 | anteaya: OK,thanks I'll feed back to our team:) | 08:18 |
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| anteaya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings#Telco_Working_Group_Meeting | 08:18 |
| anteaya | thank you | 08:18 |
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| anteaya | jyuso1: is your ci system commenting on all nova patches now? | 08:18 |
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| jyuso1 | anteaya: yes | 08:19 |
| anteaya | wonderful, great work | 08:19 |
| anteaya | jyuso1: are you currently at the point you consider to be your goal? | 08:19 |
| jyuso1 | anteaya: Now it's just Nova.but we'll add more CI | 08:19 |
| anteaya | jyuso1: what else do you want to test? | 08:20 |
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| jyuso1 | anteaya: yes.I'm trying to test sr-iov ci now. | 08:20 |
| anteaya | ah okay | 08:21 |
| anteaya | how is that coming along? | 08:21 |
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| anteaya | so is what you are testing now PCI? | 08:21 |
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| jyuso1 | anteaya: I'm stiil confused about multi node CI testing. | 08:21 |
| anteaya | jyuso1: yes I can understand that | 08:22 |
| anteaya | what part are you confused about? | 08:22 |
| anteaya | it is a challenging topic | 08:22 |
| anteaya | and we don't have all the pieces in place ourselves | 08:22 |
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| anteaya | what are you experiencing | 08:22 |
| jyuso1 | anteaya: about how to depoly and test.. | 08:22 |
| anteaya | what do you want to do? | 08:23 |
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| anteaya | then I can better understand how to help | 08:23 |
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| jyuso1 | anteaya: you know I can deploy openstack on single node.It's a project in Jenkins | 08:24 |
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| anteaya | you can deploy openstack on a single node yes | 08:24 |
| anteaya | that is our most common use case | 08:24 |
| jyuso1 | anteaya: But how could i deploy other "nova-compute"and"openvswitch agent" on the other node in same Jenkins project. | 08:26 |
| anteaya | but multinode is tricky | 08:26 |
| anteaya | right | 08:26 |
| jyuso1 | anteaya: may be I should build 2 jenkins project | 08:26 |
| anteaya | that part is difficult | 08:26 |
| jyuso1 | anteaya: after project 1 is complete and then trigger project 2? | 08:26 |
| anteaya | well we do have a scenario we are working on to have two nodes available for the same test | 08:26 |
| anteaya | but we havent' got the entire process worked out yet | 08:27 |
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| anteaya | jyuso1: joe gordon, jogo, is working on that | 08:27 |
| jyuso1 | anteaya: can i juse puppet in CI project? | 08:27 |
| anteaya | well it is the creation of the second vm that the inital vm knows about that is the issue | 08:27 |
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| anteaya | that is the structure we are working on creating | 08:28 |
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| anteaya | and having quite figured out how to do that | 08:28 |
| anteaya | jyuso1: I think that heyongli has talked to jogo in the past | 08:28 |
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| anteaya | I think it might be worthwhile talking to jogo about setting up multinode testing | 08:29 |
| jyuso1 | anteaya: oh,may be i should ask him about the detail:) | 08:29 |
| jyuso1 | anteaya: thanks | 08:29 |
| anteaya | jyuso1: I think that would be a good place to begin | 08:29 |
| anteaya | you might be able to help him accomplish his goal | 08:29 |
| heyongli | anteaya, we don't cover 2 node testing yet, but let us see what will happen while we setting up SRIOV env. | 08:29 |
| anteaya | hello heyongli | 08:30 |
| anteaya | right | 08:30 |
| anteaya | if you need two vms for your test, best to start by talking to jogo | 08:30 |
| anteaya | so that you can make use of what he has accomplished in this area | 08:30 |
| jyuso1 | anteaya: may be it is a little different.our test is not based on VM. | 08:31 |
| heyongli | anteaya, we beyond 2 vms, we need two 2 host and 2 vm. | 08:31 |
| jyuso1 | anteaya: it is based on physical machine. | 08:31 |
| anteaya | heyongli: oh, two hosts | 08:31 |
| anteaya | yes needing two hosts is different from what we are working on | 08:31 |
| anteaya | jyuso1: ah yes, so basing it on a physical machine is different | 08:31 |
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| anteaya | all of our testing is virtual | 08:31 |
| anteaya | so we are in new territory again | 08:32 |
| jyuso1 | anteaya: yes.so that's why i just want to know could i use puppet to deploy in CI.:) | 08:32 |
| anteaya | I'm not sure what to say | 08:32 |
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| anteaya | jyuso1: by all means, if you can use puppet to accomplish your task do so | 08:33 |
| anteaya | just know that what you are doing is not like what anyone else has tried to do before | 08:33 |
| anteaya | to the best of my knowledge | 08:33 |
| anteaya | so you will hit a lot of obstacles | 08:33 |
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| jyuso1 | anteaya: yes.that's true. | 08:34 |
| anteaya | and I won't have many answers for you, except to say keep trying | 08:34 |
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| anteaya | okay yes, use any tool that you think will accomplish the task | 08:34 |
| jyuso1 | anteaya: thanks:) | 08:34 |
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| anteaya | jyuso1: :) | 08:34 |
| anteaya | so keep us posted on your progress | 08:34 |
| heyongli | anteaya, sure. | 08:35 |
| anteaya | as we are interested in learning what you discover | 08:35 |
| anteaya | heyongli: thank you | 08:35 |
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| anteaya | so right now, you are testing all nova patches, correct? | 08:35 |
| anteaya | and you are commenting on the patches in gerrit? | 08:35 |
| heyongli | anteaya, you help me a lot , actually | 08:35 |
| anteaya | heyongli: thank you :) | 08:35 |
| heyongli | yes, anteaya | 08:35 |
| anteaya | heyongli: now the tests you are running | 08:36 |
| anteaya | are they the pci tests? | 08:36 |
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| heyongli | anteaya, yes, pci tests, let me post you the test cases link | 08:36 |
| anteaya | thank you | 08:36 |
| heyongli | https://github.com/intel-hw-ci/Intel-Openstack-Hardware-CI/tree/master/pci_testcases | 08:37 |
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| anteaya | #link https://github.com/intel-hw-ci/Intel-Openstack-Hardware-CI/tree/master/pci_testcases | 08:37 |
| anteaya | heyongli: wonderful thank you | 08:37 |
| anteaya | we were talking today about having access to the tests people are running | 08:38 |
| anteaya | thanks for sharing the test code | 08:38 |
| anteaya | :) | 08:38 |
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| anteaya | and you have a link in your log index page | 08:38 |
| heyongli | yes | 08:38 |
| anteaya | that is wonderful | 08:38 |
| anteaya | yay | 08:39 |
| anteaya | so you are working on the sr-iov testing now | 08:39 |
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| anteaya | so did you have anythign you wanted to talk about with me? | 08:41 |
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| anteaya | we had talked about your system today during the nova mid-cycle which started today | 08:41 |
| anteaya | which is why I had all my questions | 08:41 |
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| jyuso1 | anteaya: I think I don't have more question.thanks:) | 08:43 |
| heyongli | anteaya, i know yunhong talk with you , yay | 08:44 |
| heyongli | i have no more share today, | 08:44 |
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| heyongli | i had to leave for other work today, anteaya | 08:46 |
| anteaya | jyuso1: great thank you | 08:46 |
| anteaya | heyongli: yes he did | 08:46 |
| anteaya | heyongli: it was nice to meet him | 08:46 |
| anteaya | heyongli: thank you | 08:46 |
| heyongli | thank you too, anteaya , bye | 08:46 |
| anteaya | heyongli: bye | 08:46 |
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| anteaya | I just sent an email to adrian | 08:49 |
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| anteaya | to let him know that having him attend the weekly telco meeting would be helpful | 08:49 |
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| anteaya | well heyongli is gone to work and jyuso1 doesnt' have any more questions | 08:55 |
| anteaya | and noone else has made their presence known | 08:55 |
| anteaya | so I am going to end this meeting | 08:55 |
| anteaya | thanks to all for attending | 08:56 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 08:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 27 08:56:13 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-01-27-08.00.html | 08:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-01-27-08.00.txt | 08:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-01-27-08.00.log.html | 08:56 |
| anteaya | four minutes until the nova-net to neutron migration meeting | 08:56 |
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| spandhe | anteaya: going through the spec, so it seems we dont plan to do a fully live migration.. right? both the APIs are read-only during DB migration step | 08:59 |
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| anteaya | spandhe: let's get your question logged in the meeting | 09:00 |
| anteaya | spandhe: hold on a second | 09:00 |
| jlibosva | hello | 09:00 |
| obondarev | o/ | 09:00 |
| anteaya | #startmeeting nova-net-to-neutron-migration | 09:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 27 09:00:35 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 09:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 09:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_net_to_neutron_migration' | 09:00 |
| anteaya | jlibosva: hello | 09:00 |
| spandhe | hello! | 09:00 |
| anteaya | hi obondarev | 09:00 |
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| anteaya | this is spandhe | 09:00 |
| obondarev | anteaya: hi | 09:01 |
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| anteaya | I met her today and she works with yahoo's deployment | 09:01 |
| anteaya | so she is attending today's meeting | 09:01 |
| anteaya | anyone else here for the migration meeting? | 09:01 |
| obondarev | great! | 09:01 |
| spandhe | Hi obondarev ! | 09:01 |
| anteaya | gus: you here? | 09:01 |
| obondarev | spandhe: nice to meet you :) | 09:01 |
| anteaya | belmoreira: ping | 09:01 |
| anteaya | let's look at today's agenda | 09:02 |
| anteaya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova-nettoNeutronMigration | 09:02 |
| spandhe | obondarev: I have tried your earlier patch in Yahoo (with few changes) and have tested out successful live migration. I am trying to see thr new approach now. | 09:02 |
| belmoreira | hi, I'm late... | 09:02 |
| anteaya | belmoreira: welcome | 09:02 |
| anteaya | spandhe: let's follow our agenda | 09:02 |
| anteaya | spandhe: then we can have a chance to discuss | 09:03 |
| obondarev | spandhe: cool! | 09:03 |
| spandhe | anteaya: ok.. | 09:03 |
| anteaya | #topic he state of the Neutron spec (obondarev) | 09:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "he state of the Neutron spec (obondarev) (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:03 | |
| anteaya | spandhe: thanks | 09:03 |
| anteaya | so the specs first | 09:03 |
| anteaya | obondarev: take it away | 09:03 |
| obondarev | so for the specs | 09:03 |
| obondarev | just saw an activity on the specs this morning | 09:03 |
| anteaya | \o/ | 09:03 |
| obondarev | most probably related to the discussion at nova midcycle | 09:03 |
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| anteaya | it was yes | 09:03 |
| obondarev | gus has uploaded new revisions on the specs so he probably knows more than me :) | 09:03 |
| anteaya | gus: pingity ping ping | 09:04 |
| obondarev | I'm going to go through them and left comments, if any | 09:04 |
| anteaya | obondarev: wonderful thank you | 09:04 |
| obondarev | anteaya: are you at the midcycle? | 09:04 |
| anteaya | obondarev: I am, I am only there tomorrow morning and then I have to leave for the cinder mid-cycle | 09:05 |
| anteaya | the two overlap | 09:05 |
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| obondarev | anteaya: ok, great! | 09:05 |
| anteaya | so we discussed the specs today | 09:05 |
| anteaya | and there is agreement to solve the simplest use case, as we have been working to do | 09:05 |
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| anteaya | and I would really like to get at least the first part of the two part spec merged this week | 09:06 |
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| anteaya | so that is this patch | 09:06 |
| anteaya | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/147723/4 | 09:06 |
| anteaya | I think we are close | 09:06 |
| anteaya | so if folks can review that then hopefully we can get that polished and finished this week | 09:06 |
| anteaya | that is my goal | 09:07 |
| obondarev | anteaya: is Salvatore at the midcycle as well? | 09:07 |
| anteaya | obondarev: he was there today | 09:07 |
| anteaya | and then had to go to vmware meetings | 09:07 |
| obondarev | I'm asking because one of the comments from Salvatore was his concern on whether we need a proxy in nova at all. | 09:07 |
| anteaya | hopefully he will be there tomorrow before I leave | 09:07 |
| obondarev | As I started to work on it I'd really like this concerns to be sorted asap :) | 09:07 |
| anteaya | obondarev: yes, I saw that | 09:07 |
| anteaya | obondarev: yes | 09:07 |
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| anteaya | obondarev: can you submit your code to gerrit, so folks can look at it? | 09:08 |
| obondarev | good to know he's there | 09:08 |
| anteaya | he is, yes | 09:08 |
| anteaya | I was happy to see him | 09:08 |
| obondarev | yeah. I'll try to put a WIP on gerrit this week | 09:08 |
| obondarev | hopefully this will be something that makes sense and not a complete waste of reviewers time | 09:08 |
| anteaya | can you do that today please? | 09:08 |
| anteaya | anything is a start | 09:08 |
| anteaya | it is frustrating for me to tell people there will be code and there is no code | 09:08 |
| obondarev | not sure for today | 09:09 |
| anteaya | just submit what you have | 09:09 |
| anteaya | it doesn't have to be perfect | 09:09 |
| anteaya | but anything is better than nothing | 09:09 |
| obondarev | yeah, I know, I'll try | 09:09 |
| anteaya | it really holds up discussions when folks have nothing to look at | 09:09 |
| anteaya | thank you | 09:09 |
| anteaya | and progress on the second patch of the spec hinges on folks being able to see code | 09:10 |
| anteaya | so we need to have some code to make any progress on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142456/ in a meaningful way | 09:10 |
| anteaya | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142456/ | 09:10 |
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| anteaya | obondarev: seeing what you have written may answer some of salv-orlando's concerns | 09:11 |
| obondarev | anteaya: I see | 09:11 |
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| anteaya | obondarev: thanks, so anything you have is great | 09:11 |
| anteaya | if folks make you feel unhappy for putting something up in wip state, then let me know | 09:11 |
| anteaya | since you should be supported by showing unfinished coce | 09:12 |
| anteaya | code | 09:12 |
| anteaya | and if you don't, I will address it | 09:12 |
| obondarev | thanks anteaya | 09:12 |
| anteaya | thank you | 09:12 |
| anteaya | obondarev: and yes, I want your efforts to be valued, not wasted | 09:12 |
| obondarev | anteaya: appreciate that :) | 09:13 |
| anteaya | so without gus, I'm not sure what else we need to talk about regarding the specs | 09:13 |
| anteaya | obondarev: :) | 09:13 |
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| anteaya | does anyone else have anything for specs? | 09:13 |
| jlibosva | nope | 09:13 |
| anteaya | or shall we move on? | 09:13 |
| anteaya | okay great, please review them as soon as you are able | 09:13 |
| anteaya | moving on | 09:13 |
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| anteaya | #topic the state of implementation (obondarev) | 09:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "the state of implementation (obondarev) (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:14 | |
| obondarev | so we already started to talk a bit about implementation I guess | 09:14 |
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| obondarev | will try to put a wip on proxy asap | 09:14 |
| anteaya | thank you | 09:15 |
| obondarev | I see jlibosva has progress on his DB migration patch | 09:15 |
| obondarev | jlibosva: can you please update? | 09:15 |
| anteaya | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/148260/ | 09:15 |
| jlibosva | I'm gonna send new PS soon. I'm rewriting the code structure to be more declarative | 09:15 |
| anteaya | jlibosva: great thank you | 09:15 |
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| obondarev | jlibosva: thanks | 09:15 |
| jlibosva | every neutron table has its own definition how the table should be populated | 09:16 |
| jlibosva | currently I'm in state of getting ports and fixed/floating ips populated and that's the last part | 09:16 |
| jlibosva | so ETA this week I think prototype should be ready | 09:16 |
| obondarev | jlibosva: perfect! | 09:16 |
| anteaya | jlibosva: wonderful work, thank you | 09:16 |
| belmoreira | jlibosva: great | 09:17 |
| anteaya | spandhe: did you have any more comments for obondarev? | 09:17 |
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| spandhe | anteaya: I have questions about the previous spec.. mostly because I wasnt involed earlier.. I can talk to him later too... | 09:17 |
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| anteaya | spandhe: doens't hurt to ask now | 09:18 |
| anteaya | since this is logged it would be helpful to ask | 09:18 |
| obondarev | spandhe: you mean juo spec, right? | 09:18 |
| obondarev | juno* | 09:18 |
| spandhe | anteaya: ok cool.. obondarev, have questions on kilo specs | 09:18 |
| obondarev | spandhe: ah, ok | 09:19 |
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| spandhe | are we not planning to do a live migration? I thought you kind of achieved that in Juno spec.. or at least we did using that code | 09:19 |
| spandhe | seems like both the APIs are down during the db migration period. | 09:19 |
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| spandhe | Is my understanding correct? | 09:20 |
| obondarev | spandhe: right, the first iteration does not include live migration | 09:20 |
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| obondarev | spandhe: but API are partially down | 09:20 |
| obondarev | spandhe: Nova API is down during only initial db migration | 09:21 |
| obondarev | spandhe: then it's up again | 09:21 |
| spandhe | obondarev: ok.. whats initial db migration? Also, once the db is migrated, where do new VMs come up? in nova-net land or neutron land? | 09:21 |
| obondarev | spandhe: so after the db migration the source of thruth will be in neutron db | 09:22 |
| obondarev | truth* | 09:22 |
| spandhe | obondarev: ok.. and nova is the active API and the calls are proxied to neutron API, am I right? | 09:23 |
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| obondarev | spandhe: nova is the active API, calls are operated by nova-network which will go for data to neutron DB | 09:24 |
| obondarev | spandhe: using special proxy in nova | 09:24 |
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| spandhe | obondarev: ok thanks.. I am not sure what this special proxy is.. does it help nova in accessing neutron DB? because usually nova user wont have acess to neutron db.. | 09:25 |
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| obondarev | yep, it does, it should go to neutron to get data | 09:26 |
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| obondarev | after that we can start The big migration loop | 09:26 |
| spandhe | obondarev: ok.. thanks! I got the gist now.. I can review the specs and the db migration script.. | 09:26 |
| obondarev | spandhe: great! thank you! | 09:27 |
| anteaya | spandhe: thanks for asking | 09:27 |
| anteaya | so implementation | 09:27 |
| anteaya | does anyone have anything more on implementation? | 09:27 |
| jlibosva | nope | 09:27 |
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| obondarev | not from me | 09:27 |
| spandhe | anteaya: thanks for giving me the opportunity :) | 09:28 |
| anteaya | spandhe: glad to have your participation | 09:28 |
| anteaya | okay moving on | 09:28 |
| anteaya | #topic documentation | 09:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "documentation (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:28 | |
| anteaya | obondarev: you did your part here, thank you | 09:28 |
| * gus apologises for arriving late. | 09:28 | |
| obondarev | not much to update on the docs side | 09:28 |
| anteaya | yes | 09:28 |
| anteaya | actually let's go back | 09:28 |
| anteaya | #undo | 09:28 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x1ffd090> | 09:29 |
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| anteaya | gus: hello | 09:29 |
| anteaya | gus: anything to share in the specs/implementation topics? | 09:29 |
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| gus | I put up a new revision a few hours ago that addresses all the comments so far. | 09:30 |
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| anteaya | gus: yes thank you | 09:30 |
| gus | In particular, it now says that we won't deal with cells in this spec, but we expect that to be a followup. | 09:30 |
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| jlibosva | gus: i.e. in L cycle? | 09:31 |
| anteaya | belmoreira: we talked this morning about that | 09:31 |
| anteaya | belmoreira: and understanding that to move forward we need to focus on the simplest use case | 09:31 |
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| anteaya | but I am talking with alaski who is one of the authors of cells | 09:31 |
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| anteaya | and working on figuring out what we can do for your situation, belmoreira | 09:32 |
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| gus | jlibosva: It's possible, but I doubt it. It will need some more discussion/involvement from interested parties to make sure we do it in a way that is most useful, and we'll need some much better testing environments than we typically have available (devstack won't cut it). | 09:32 |
| belmoreira | anteaya: thank you | 09:32 |
| anteaya | whether it is within this initiative or outside it | 09:32 |
| anteaya | belmoreira: we are thinking of you, by all means | 09:32 |
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| anteaya | we just need to figure out how to keep the migration path moving forward as well, as it has stalled in teh past | 09:33 |
| jlibosva | gus: makes sense. thanks | 09:33 |
| anteaya | so in short, the spec is saying simplest use case | 09:33 |
| anteaya | we are providing some tools which we invite deployers to take and expand to fit their needs | 09:33 |
| anteaya | folks who work with us and have specific needs, such as cern and cells, we will work with to find a path forward | 09:34 |
| anteaya | but that won't make everyone happy | 09:34 |
| anteaya | so we are telling folks that we know that | 09:34 |
| anteaya | to set reasonable expectations | 09:34 |
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| anteaya | make sense? | 09:35 |
| belmoreira | anteaya: I think is very reasonable | 09:35 |
| spandhe | totally | 09:35 |
| anteaya | belmoreira: thank you | 09:35 |
| anteaya | spandhe: great thank you | 09:35 |
| anteaya | gus: thanks for your input | 09:35 |
| anteaya | any more now that gus is here? | 09:36 |
| anteaya | or back to documentation? | 09:36 |
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| anteaya | moving on | 09:36 |
| anteaya | #topic documentation | 09:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "documentation (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:36 | |
| anteaya | back again | 09:36 |
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| anteaya | so obondarev thank you here, emagma has said he will lead this | 09:36 |
| anteaya | the difficulty is the meeting time, which I don't expect him ever to make | 09:37 |
| obondarev | anteaya: awesome! | 09:37 |
| jlibosva | anteaya: where is he located? | 09:37 |
| anteaya | I get up in the middle of the night but I don't expect others from north america to do so | 09:37 |
| obondarev | anteaya: indeed, we talked about it with him too | 09:37 |
| jlibosva | ah | 09:37 |
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| anteaya | jlibosva: in texas I think | 09:37 |
| anteaya | and I got an email from somone named chris cannon who also said he wants to help | 09:37 |
| anteaya | which is awesome but he is in north america as well | 09:38 |
| obondarev | anteaya: so if we can have an alternate time for this meeting that would be good I think | 09:38 |
| obondarev | just like we have for neutron team meeting | 09:38 |
| anteaya | so I'm sill looking for somone to attend meetings | 09:38 |
| anteaya | obondarev: I'd like to avoid that acutally | 09:38 |
| anteaya | as disruption in the meeting time reduces effectiveness for the transition period | 09:38 |
| obondarev | anteaya: I see | 09:39 |
| anteaya | this time works for russia, australia and eu | 09:39 |
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| anteaya | which is why I picked it | 09:39 |
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| anteaya | let's just proceed and hope someone from docs is able to attend meetings | 09:39 |
| obondarev | anteaya: should we find a compromise then? | 09:39 |
| anteaya | obondarev: do you want to ping emagma and ask him what he needs to get started on the docs process? | 09:39 |
| anteaya | I think just ensuring somone talks to emagma is our best way forward | 09:40 |
| anteaya | obondarev: if you would do that, that would be great | 09:40 |
| obondarev | anteaya: agree | 09:40 |
| obondarev | anteaya: sure I can | 09:40 |
| anteaya | great, thank you | 09:40 |
| anteaya | anything more for docs? | 09:40 |
| anteaya | #topic testing (belmoreira) | 09:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "testing (belmoreira) (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:40 | |
| anteaya | belmoreira: anything to say here? | 09:41 |
| belmoreira | As ops point of view for now I don't have nothing | 09:41 |
| anteaya | okay great | 09:41 |
| anteaya | I'll proceed | 09:41 |
| jlibosva | I have something to discuss/think about | 09:41 |
| anteaya | oh okay, jlibosva go ahead | 09:41 |
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| jlibosva | Do we plan to test particular tools? | 09:42 |
| anteaya | good question | 09:42 |
| anteaya | let me share something | 09:42 |
| jlibosva | as I was working with db things, I think some real big bunch of data would be helpful | 09:42 |
| anteaya | jlibosva: ah I see | 09:42 |
| anteaya | jlibosva: well mikal and jhesketh do test data | 09:42 |
| anteaya | with their db datasets ci | 09:42 |
| anteaya | jlibosva: so it might be possible to chat with jhesketh to see how they work with real data | 09:43 |
| jlibosva | anteaya: is it the turbo-hipster or something else? | 09:43 |
| anteaya | and utilize their approach if possible | 09:43 |
| anteaya | turbo-hipster | 09:43 |
| jlibosva | ok, I'll try to reach out to him | 09:43 |
| anteaya | which has the name db datasets ci | 09:43 |
| anteaya | jlibosva: thank you, I think that would be a good first step | 09:44 |
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| anteaya | and at the nova midcycle we discussed testing | 09:44 |
| jlibosva | anteaya: ok, thank you too for the info | 09:44 |
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| anteaya | jlibosva: sure | 09:44 |
| gus | mikal is at nova midcycle, jhesketh is still here in .au if you want me to ask him tomorrow. | 09:44 |
| anteaya | and one suggestion is to package up the tools and let deployers test them | 09:44 |
| anteaya | and incorporate feedback | 09:44 |
| gus | (I feel bad I have no idea how my colleagues' tool works) | 09:45 |
| anteaya | gus: yes thank you that would be awesome | 09:45 |
| anteaya | gus: ha ha ha | 09:45 |
| gus | will do. | 09:45 |
| anteaya | working in -infra I had to get over that long ago | 09:45 |
| anteaya | :) | 09:45 |
| anteaya | so belmoreira you mentioned this morning/yesterday to me that you could test the db migration and proxy once you see some code | 09:46 |
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| anteaya | belmoreira: yes? | 09:46 |
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| anteaya | spandhe: would you be able to do the same? | 09:46 |
| belmoreira | the proxy it will be easier to test | 09:46 |
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| anteaya | belmoreira: great, I'll take what I can get | 09:47 |
| gus | testing is going to be awkward generally for this project, given that the usual devstack/grenade tests aren't so useful (multi-node devstack testing isn't quite ready yet). | 09:47 |
| spandhe | anteaya: yup.. | 09:47 |
| anteaya | spandhe: great thank you | 09:47 |
| belmoreira | data migration, I'm still checking how can we do it | 09:47 |
| anteaya | gus: yes, I think we are going to have to stumble through testing until we reach a happy place amoungst ourselves | 09:47 |
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| anteaya | belmoreira: great, well don't keep your findings a secret | 09:47 |
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| anteaya | belmoreira: once you learn anything, do share so we can figure out how to get the support to make it happen | 09:48 |
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| anteaya | gus: and yes multi-node did come up today | 09:48 |
| belmoreira | anteaya: sure | 09:48 |
| anteaya | gus: which we are working on but yes, isn't there yet | 09:48 |
| anteaya | belmoreira: thank you | 09:49 |
| anteaya | so for testing, basically we have to have some code and then try some things and share what we tried and keep going until we decide it is good enough | 09:49 |
| anteaya | which isn't great for satisfying the spec, but I don't know what else to suggest at this point | 09:49 |
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| * jhesketh is here | 09:50 | |
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| anteaya | hello jhesketh | 09:50 |
| jhesketh | (trying to catchup on context) | 09:50 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: the tl;dr is we would like your input on testing data migrations | 09:50 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: you being the turbo-hipster dude, we were hoping you might have some wisdom to share | 09:51 |
| jhesketh | tl;dr answer would be it's worth doing | 09:51 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: that is good | 09:51 |
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| anteaya | and worth knowing thank you | 09:51 |
| jhesketh | not necessarily as a 3rd party CI, but at the very least before you upgrade so you know how long it'll take | 09:51 |
| gus | want to be able to test a db migration tool on largish amounts of data. wondering what your experience is re getting access to that, privacy, etc. | 09:51 |
| jhesketh | turbo-hipster is designed in ways to make it difficult to get data out, I did a talk on that at the summit | 09:52 |
| jhesketh | let me find a link | 09:52 |
| * jlibosva remembers the talk from Atlanta | 09:52 | |
| jhesketh | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeoUpmPim8c | 09:52 |
| jhesketh | oh, well, not much has changed | 09:52 |
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| anteaya | #link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeoUpmPim8c | 09:53 |
| anteaya | so jlibosva perhaps you can watch/re-watch that video and follow up with jhesketh if you have questions? | 09:54 |
| anteaya | and of course, anyone else as well | 09:54 |
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| anteaya | jhesketh: thank you | 09:54 |
| gus | if we have large nova-net volunteers, then we could set up a similar 3rd party CI migration test. We have the additional complication that verifying the neutron version matches the nova-net version is itself an interesting exercise. | 09:54 |
| jlibosva | jhesketh: I reserve a slot in your time schedule :) | 09:55 |
| anteaya | true | 09:55 |
| anteaya | so we have more to discuss on the testing front | 09:55 |
| anteaya | let's all keep that in mind as we move forward and bring questions and comments to next week's meeting | 09:55 |
| anteaya | fair? | 09:55 |
| gus | we should be able to do a round trip: migration tool -> nova-neutron-proxy -> back to something that matches the same nova API. | 09:55 |
| jlibosva | I have still question, how to validate neutron db is correct | 09:56 |
| anteaya | jlibosva: ah, another good question | 09:56 |
| anteaya | gus: that sound reasonable | 09:56 |
| jlibosva | specifically vif migrations | 09:56 |
| gus | we'll need additional testing from the neutron pov however. | 09:56 |
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| anteaya | hmmmm, more thought needed here | 09:57 |
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| anteaya | can we capture these thoughts, questions in the spec comments at all? | 09:57 |
| jlibosva | ack | 09:57 |
| anteaya | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142456/ | 09:57 |
| gus | jlibosva: I can't think of any magic answers here - I think we'll just need to add the usual unittests to cover cases we foresee while writing the code as best we can. | 09:57 |
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| anteaya | gus: yes, let's start with what we can do and expand from there | 09:58 |
| jlibosva | gus: I don't think UT would be useful here as it validates implementation. We're more interesting in making sure the actual mapping between two databases is correct. The implementation is not that crucial | 09:58 |
| anteaya | jlibosva: is there anyone else doing what you think needs to be done? | 09:59 |
| anteaya | can we copy a current effort at all? | 09:59 |
| anteaya | time to wrap up | 09:59 |
| gus | jlibosva: Agreed. I don't know how to do that without writing some other new code that will be based on the same possibly incorrect assumptions however :/ | 09:59 |
| anteaya | let's comment in the testing section of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142456/8/specs/kilo/migration-from-nova-net.rst | 10:00 |
| jlibosva | yeah | 10:00 |
| anteaya | and talk more about testing next week | 10:00 |
| jlibosva | anteaya: I was just thinking loud, I'll try to bring it to specs | 10:00 |
| anteaya | please review the latest spec | 10:00 |
| anteaya | jlibosva: of course, and thank you | 10:00 |
| anteaya | :) | 10:00 |
| anteaya | great meeting everyone, thank you! | 10:00 |
| anteaya | see you next week | 10:00 |
| gus | yep, suggest things for the spec and I'll attempt to merge them. | 10:00 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 10:00 |
| jlibosva | thanks, bye | 10:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 10:00 | |
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| gus | thanks all. | 10:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 27 10:00:58 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 10:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/2015/nova_net_to_neutron_migration.2015-01-27-09.00.html | 10:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/2015/nova_net_to_neutron_migration.2015-01-27-09.00.txt | 10:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/2015/nova_net_to_neutron_migration.2015-01-27-09.00.log.html | 10:01 |
| anteaya | thank you | 10:01 |
| obondarev | thanks! by!e | 10:01 |
| belmoreira | thanks | 10:01 |
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| spandhe | thanks! bye! | 10:02 |
| jhesketh | jlibosva: sure, just ping me with any q's :-) | 10:02 |
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| * anteaya is awake again | 13:59 | |
| mestery | hi | 13:59 |
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| roaet | hi | 13:59 |
| ihrachyshka | o/ | 13:59 |
| mlavalle | hi | 13:59 |
| emagana | hello! | 13:59 |
| pc_m | hi | 13:59 |
| rkukura | hi | 13:59 |
| tongli | o/ | 14:00 |
| tongli | Neutron meeting now? | 14:00 |
| mestery | tongli: yes | 14:00 |
| russellb | o/ | 14:00 |
| HenryG | \o | 14:00 |
| tongli | @mestery, cool. thanks. | 14:00 |
| mestery | tongli: Waiting for folks to arrive, will be starting very soon | 14:00 |
| jlibosva | hi | 14:01 |
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| mestery | salv-orlando armax kevinbenton carl_baldwin amotoki dougwig: ping | 14:01 |
| Sukhdev | hello - good morning | 14:01 |
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| dougwig | Early! :) | 14:02 |
| roaet | quite early | 14:02 |
| mestery | #startmeeting networking | 14:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 27 14:02:27 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking' | 14:02 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings Agenda | 14:02 |
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| mestery | This may be a light meeting today, the main focus I'd like to have is on Kilo-2 work and some time on plugin decomposition | 14:03 |
| mestery | #topic Announcements | 14:03 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:03 | |
| mestery | Kilo-2 is in 2 weeks on February 5 | 14:03 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Kilo_Release_Schedule | 14:03 |
| mestery | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/kilo-2 | 14:03 |
| amotoki | hi | 14:04 |
| mestery | We'll spend some time on specific BPs there later in the meeting. | 14:04 |
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| mestery | That's all I had for announcements on the agenda this week. Does anyone have anything else? | 14:04 |
| mestery | #topic Bugs | 14:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:05 | |
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| mestery | enikanorov_ enikanorov__: Hi there | 14:05 |
| enikanorov_ | mestery: hi | 14:05 |
| enikanorov_ | mestery: may we move bugs section to the end of the meeting? | 14:06 |
| enikanorov_ | sorry about that | 14:06 |
| mestery | enikanorov_: Sure! We'll come back to it, no worries. | 14:06 |
| mestery | #topic Docs | 14:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:06 | |
| mestery | emagana: Hi there! | 14:06 |
| emagana | mestery: hello! | 14:06 |
| emagana | Networking guide is going well. We have a legacy implementation | 14:08 |
| emagana | #link https://github.com/ionosphere80/openstack-networking-guide/blob/master/scenario-legacy-ovs/scenario-legacy-ovs.md | 14:08 |
| mestery | emagana: neat! | 14:08 |
| emagana | The idea is to cover what nova-network provides but with overlays network besides VLANs | 14:08 |
| mestery | emagana: That's a pretty good guide, just scrolling through it now. | 14:09 |
| emagana | I encourage everybody to provide feedback now on this github account or once it is move to gerrit, which I will provide the link but it is not there yet | 14:09 |
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| mestery | #info Encourage everyone to provide feedback on the networking guide in github for now until it moves to gerrit. | 14:09 |
| mestery | emagana: Is there a deadline for this feedback? | 14:10 |
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| emagana | Just a reminder for everybody, in order to facilitate the documentation for the people who are not familiar with the Docs tools, this .md format is much more easier to update ;-) | 14:10 |
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| emagana | mestery: No yet! But our target is to complete the guide by mids February | 14:10 |
| mestery | #info Target is to complete networking guide by mid February | 14:11 |
| mestery | thanks emagana! | 14:11 |
| amotoki | emagana: how to feedback? IRC channel? docs ML? | 14:11 |
| emagana | mestery: but I do not think we have a hard deadline. The DVR side has been moving along nicely | 14:11 |
| ihrachyshka | pull requests ;) | 14:11 |
| mestery | ihrachyshka: lol | 14:11 |
| emagana | amotoki: it depends, if you want to provide changes to the document, just follow the typical git process and you name will be included in the credits of the guide | 14:12 |
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| emagana | if you have few comments, just added directly in git or wait for the official gerrit commit | 14:12 |
| mestery | amotoki: Do you have plans to present this guide at the Ops Summit in Philly? May be a good idea to get feedback there as well. | 14:12 |
| mestery | emagana: | 14:12 |
| mestery | Sorry. not amotoki :) | 14:12 |
| emagana | mestery: I am planing to attend it but I did not think about present it, good idea! I should! | 14:13 |
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| mestery | emagana: Yes, would be good to get feedback. Even better if you can get the ops there to collaborate on it ;) | 14:14 |
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| emagana | basicallym you will see all the scenarios that we are covering here: | 14:14 |
| emagana | #link https://github.com/ionosphere80/openstack-networking-guide | 14:14 |
| mestery | emagana: Looks good | 14:15 |
| emagana | sc68cal is working on a provider network scenario as well ;-) | 14:15 |
| emagana | mestery: no more from my side! | 14:15 |
| mestery | emagana: One thing I wanted to bring up was that the LBaaS folks found some issues with docs around LBaaS (dougwig and blogan). | 14:16 |
| * mestery is looking for the email link | 14:16 | |
| mestery | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-January/054827.html | 14:16 |
| mestery | emagana: Just noting it here to keep you aware in case they need help | 14:16 |
| dougwig | the v2 api docs somehow got released early. i think a bug got filed, and anne was looking into it. | 14:16 |
| emagana | mestery: we took care of that.. well annegentle did! | 14:16 |
| mestery | excellent! | 14:17 |
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| mestery | OK, anything else on Docs from anyone? | 14:17 |
| mestery | OK moving on | 14:18 |
| mestery | #topic Plugin Decomposition Status Update | 14:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Plugin Decomposition Status Update (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:18 | |
| mestery | I'm happy to see a lot of work going on here! Cheers to those who have already started and are making progress! | 14:18 |
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| mestery | Next week, I'm going to have armax present some stats on where we're at with regards to overall stats of who's started, etc. | 14:19 |
| mestery | For now, if anyone has any questions on this, this is a good time to ask for help. | 14:19 |
| mestery | The ODL ML2 driver is now fully decomposed, as well as the midokura driver. | 14:19 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: How is the Arista driver coming along? | 14:19 |
| Sukhdev | mestery: I am very close | 14:20 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: Excellent! | 14:20 |
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| Sukhdev | armax has been helping with UT issue | 14:20 |
| mestery | Kudos to armax for working long hours in helping people over the past few weeks. | 14:20 |
| ihrachyshka | speaking of arista, we should consider bug fixes that were discussed recently for review on master to be able to backport | 14:20 |
| Sukhdev | ihrachyshka, mestery : I added an item to the agenda to discuss this | 14:21 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: Lets discuss that here maybe? Seems to fit right in. | 14:21 |
| Sukhdev | mestery: sounds good | 14:21 |
| sean-k-mooney | are there currently any example of how to import the ml2 mechisium driver into neutron? ie the in tree part | 14:21 |
| Sukhdev | so, here is the issue - | 14:22 |
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| mestery | sean-k-mooney: We'll come back to that, hold on for a minute. | 14:22 |
| Sukhdev | While we are working on decomp work, we have patches that need backports | 14:22 |
| Sukhdev | ihrachyshka: wrote a very good summary describing the issue and solutions | 14:22 |
| ihrachyshka | hasn't https://review.openstack.org/148745 clarified the process for backports and doesn't it say that we should allow bug fixes to go into master even during spin-off? | 14:22 |
| mestery | ihrachyshka: ++, that's the link I was looking for | 14:23 |
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| Sukhdev | ihrachyshka: correct - but, I still see the patches blocked | 14:23 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/148745 | 14:23 |
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| mestery | Sukhdev: We should unblock them then. Do you have the links? | 14:23 |
| ihrachyshka | Sukhdev, that's why I encourage people to unblock reviews and proceed with them :) | 14:23 |
| mestery | ihrachyshka: When reviewing these on stable, lets make sure to include https://review.openstack.org/148745 in the review. | 14:23 |
| Sukhdev | yes - give me a sec | 14:23 |
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| Sukhdev | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/147976/ | 14:24 |
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| Sukhdev | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/148369/ | 14:24 |
| Sukhdev | those are the two | 14:24 |
| mestery | Thanks Sukhdev | 14:25 |
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| Sukhdev | juno stable deadline is in few days - if cores can get these approved - then ihrachyshka can help me get them backported | 14:25 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: I'll work with armax and ihrachyshka to unblock these for you. | 14:25 |
| Sukhdev | mestery: Thank you so much | 14:26 |
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| mestery | sean-k-mooney: You had a question as well now around importing? | 14:27 |
| emagana | Sukhdev: I was reviewing on of them, let me know if you need one more reviewer ;-) | 14:27 |
| dougwig | mestery: ping me if you need an extra reviewer on those. | 14:27 |
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| Sukhdev | emagana: thanks - I will ping you | 14:27 |
| mestery | dougwig: Please go ahead now if you want, we need armax on the second one but the first one is open. | 14:27 |
| sean-k-mooney | yes when the dirver is split out. is there an example of the in tree part that import an ml2 mechisium dirver | 14:27 |
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| mestery | sean-k-mooney: Yes, let me grab a link. | 14:28 |
| mestery | #link https://github.com/openstack/neutron/blob/master/neutron/plugins/ml2/drivers/mechanism_odl.py | 14:28 |
| dougwig | sean-k-mooney: neutron/plugins/ml2/drivers/mechanism_odl.py | 14:28 |
| sean-k-mooney | mestery: thanks | 14:28 |
| mestery | sean-k-mooney: ^^^ Like that? | 14:28 |
| mestery | OK, anything else on plugin decomposition? | 14:29 |
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| Sukhdev | mestery: I have one on ODL- decomp | 14:29 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: Please go ahead | 14:30 |
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| Sukhdev | I notice networking_old is not registered for import - is it by design? | 14:30 |
| rprakash | Hi prakash here can any one tell me if I want to develop anew plugin for ONOS, which one shall I pick to start for a BP | 14:31 |
| Sukhdev | In other words, I can not do sudo python install networking_odl | 14:31 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: Yes, you have to manually pull it and install it now, we haven't pushed a release to pypi yet | 14:31 |
| rprakash | or can I add ONOS to ODL like OZC2ODL does? | 14:31 |
| mestery | rprakash: For a new plugin/driver, you need to file a wishlist bug and keep a thin shim in neutron, the rest needs to be somewhere else. | 14:31 |
| Sukhdev | but, that is a requirement, right? we all have to do it? | 14:31 |
| dougwig | well, you could in theory do "pip install -e git+{url}" straight from github, right? | 14:32 |
| mestery | rprakash: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/neutron-specs/specs/kilo/core-vendor-decomposition.html | 14:32 |
| mestery | rprakash: That has instructions | 14:32 |
| mestery | dougwig: Yes | 14:32 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: Right | 14:32 |
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| rkukura | dane_leblanc: Does the Cisco MD decomposition depend on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ml2-hierarchical-port-binding? | 14:32 |
| rprakash | thanks will follow the link thanks | 14:32 |
| mestery | rprakash: Once you've looked at that one, please find myself or armax in #openstack-neutron with questions. | 14:33 |
| dane_leblanc | rkukura: No, the first pass of decomp should be on the current upstream Nexus plugin, that doesn't have hierarchical port binding | 14:33 |
| rkukura | dane_leblanc: Thanks. | 14:33 |
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| rprakash | Thanks will connect back to team | 14:34 |
| dane_leblanc | rkukura: But Arvind's work will depend on hierarchical port binding. | 14:34 |
| mestery | rprakash: Great! | 14:34 |
| sean-k-mooney | mestery: may i ask one more question regarding the import. is there a requirement file that specifies which verion of the networking_odl libary your are importing. | 14:34 |
| mestery | sean-k-mooney: There is not, we haven't released networking-odl yet, so it's just using current master from git. | 14:35 |
| sean-k-mooney | ok thanks that makes sense | 14:35 |
| mestery | sean-k-mooney: Excellent! | 14:36 |
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| Sukhdev | mestery: I am confused - what do you mean by you OLD has not been released? | 14:37 |
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| Sukhdev | Aren't people using it? | 14:37 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: We haven't released it on pypi yet. | 14:37 |
| mestery | Meaning, a released version. | 14:37 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: It's "released" in that it's public, but there is no version 0.1 released yet :) | 14:38 |
| Sukhdev | mestery: But, if someone wants to install from (say devstack) without requirements.txt file, how does devstack know what to pull? | 14:38 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: The ODL devstack work will pull networking-odl itself. | 14:39 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: Due to the pluggable devstack work, we have to pull that out of devstack and make it pluggable, which we're doing now. | 14:39 |
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| dougwig | you could also put FOO=$(pip install git+blah) into your local.conf in the right section. | 14:39 |
| Sukhdev | mestery: Oh so, for Arista MD, do I have to modify the devstack as well? | 14:39 |
| Sukhdev | mestery: I thought if I added requiremnts.txt file, that will do the trick, no? | 14:40 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: There are a few ways around this, dougwig proposed another one right there :) | 14:40 |
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| mestery | Sukhdev: That would do it too, but we didn't want to add that into requirements.txt for all these new external sources. | 14:40 |
| mestery | armax documented that in the spec and I believe there was a discussion on that earlier as well. | 14:40 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: Lets circle back with armax when he's online for that one. | 14:40 |
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| Sukhdev | mestery: I am using what dougwig proposed - but, I do not believe it is a scalable and long term solution, no? | 14:41 |
| Sukhdev | mestery: I agree - I will bring it up with armax | 14:41 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: Correct | 14:41 |
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| mestery | Great discussions here! | 14:42 |
| dougwig | it scales fine, it's just not terribly user friendly or allowing of self-discovery, which i'm guessing is what you meant. | 14:42 |
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| Sukhdev | dougwig: that is what I meant - sorry :-) | 14:42 |
| mestery | We'll leave this spot in the agenda going forward so each week we can work with people who are decomposing their plugins and have questions. | 14:42 |
| mestery | But lets move on now. | 14:42 |
| mestery | #topic nova-network to neutron migration | 14:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "nova-network to neutron migration (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:43 | |
| mestery | anteaya: Hi! | 14:43 |
| anteaya | o/ | 14:43 |
| anteaya | so we are meeting | 14:43 |
| anteaya | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/ | 14:43 |
| mestery | Cool! | 14:43 |
| anteaya | and we have a spec which is a two parter | 14:43 |
| anteaya | here is part one | 14:43 |
| anteaya | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/147723/ | 14:43 |
| anteaya | we are getting close | 14:43 |
| mestery | Awesome! | 14:44 |
| anteaya | basically this patch sets expectations of the users of the migration work | 14:44 |
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| anteaya | one thing that was clear yesterday at the nova mid-cycle is that we need deployers to know that if they are holding out for a push button solution, they will be disappointed | 14:44 |
| anteaya | this was captured in the community impact section of the latest patchset | 14:44 |
| anteaya | I really would like to push for getting this first patch merged by the end of this week | 14:45 |
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| anteaya | the child patch to this includes the migration path and nova folks want to see some proof of concept code before they sign off on the spce | 14:45 |
| anteaya | which is fair | 14:45 |
| mestery | anteaya: Makes sense | 14:46 |
| anteaya | jlibosva has a db migration wip patch up | 14:46 |
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| anteaya | and obondarev has told me he will get a wip proxy patch up on gerrit soon | 14:46 |
| anteaya | there is some resistance here, mostly I feel due to his concern about putting up something in wip | 14:46 |
| anteaya | but others need to see the work to be able to offer opinons | 14:46 |
| anteaya | so obondarev heard my concerns and will put something up | 14:47 |
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| anteaya | I assured him he would feel supported in doing so | 14:47 |
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| mestery | anteaya: I love the wording in the "Community Impact" section of gus's spec, nicely done. | 14:47 |
| anteaya | emagana has said he will lead the docs effort | 14:47 |
| anteaya | mestery: thanks | 14:47 |
| anteaya | one of the issues is we still don't have anyone doing docs who can attend meetings | 14:47 |
| anteaya | so would be great to have someone here to help emagana | 14:48 |
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| anteaya | someone named chris emailed me to say he wants to help with docs | 14:48 |
| anteaya | speak up if you are on irc chris | 14:48 |
| anteaya | also the cells issue while not in scope for the migration work | 14:48 |
| anteaya | is still an issue for cern | 14:48 |
| anteaya | I am talking with alaski to see what we can do here | 14:49 |
| anteaya | and he has told me he would really like a point person in neutron to understand cells impact | 14:49 |
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| anteaya | the problem being that neutron doesn't talk cells so nova cells users can't use neutron | 14:49 |
| mestery | cern uses cells? Talk about living on the edge ;) | 14:49 |
| anteaya | so we need to address this gap | 14:49 |
| anteaya | cern uses cells | 14:49 |
| mestery | cool | 14:49 |
| ajo | yes, they do | 14:50 |
| emagana | anteaya: it will be great to have someone else because I can't attend the IRC meetings, are too early for me | 14:50 |
| anteaya | cells do two things I understand, load balance the scheduler and isolate against failure | 14:50 |
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| anteaya | so we need to find a neutron person willing to work with alaski on this gap | 14:50 |
| anteaya | emagana: yes Understood | 14:50 |
| mestery | anteaya: Thanks for the update here. | 14:50 |
| anteaya | emagana: obondarev said he would work with you this week on getting started on docs here | 14:50 |
| mestery | There is one more item I'd like to hit on the agenda in a few minutes here yet. | 14:51 |
| * anteaya stops | 14:51 | |
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| anteaya | thanks | 14:51 |
| enikanorov_ | mestery: bugs? ;) | 14:51 |
| mestery | anteaya: Thanks for the great update here! I encourage folks to attend the migration meetings and work with anteaya. | 14:51 |
| mestery | enikanorov_: Two items I guess :) | 14:51 |
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| mestery | enikanorov_: You did ask to go last today :P | 14:51 |
| anteaya | thank you, and to all who particiapte | 14:51 |
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| enikanorov_ | haha :) | 14:51 |
| enikanorov_ | yep | 14:51 |
| mestery | #topic Client Extensibility | 14:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Client Extensibility (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:51 | |
| mestery | roaet: You're up :) | 14:51 |
| roaet | o/ | 14:51 |
| roaet | I'll go fast. | 14:52 |
| roaet | This is in regard to the client extensibility bp | 14:52 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/python-neutronclient/+spec/extensible-neutronclient | 14:52 |
| roaet | We have a change here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/148318/ | 14:52 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/148318/ | 14:52 |
| roaet | It currently only supports shell extensions and models after the nova client extensions | 14:52 |
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| mestery | amotoki: I'd really like you to review this closely, as you're our most prolofic client reviewer | 14:52 |
| roaet | This adds 'commands' and what not to the client. Work can be done to add 'commands' to the library if needed. | 14:52 |
| ajo | mestery, roaet , looking into the future, shouldn't that work be done in the openstack-sdk | 14:53 |
| ajo | ? | 14:53 |
| amotoki | roaet: will look at it | 14:53 |
| mestery | ajo: That's a good point, although roaet's work solves their problem for the current :) | 14:53 |
| roaet | ajo: ^ | 14:53 |
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| ajo | sure, but may be they want to implement extension mechanism there too, or will face the same problem sooner or later :) | 14:54 |
| mestery | ajo: Valid point. roaet, I'd encourage you to look there too. | 14:54 |
| roaet | ajo: absolutely. I'm guessing that'd be a part of the library aforementioned library portion. | 14:54 |
| amotoki | perhaps we need to explore both ways (openstack-sdk/openstackclient and existing neutronclient) | 14:54 |
| mestery | Also, I encourage folks to review what roaet has here in the client. amotoki, I'll sync with you on this as well. | 14:54 |
| * dougwig notes an eery similarity between neutronclient/openstackclient and nova-network/neutron | 14:54 | |
| amotoki | but I can't say more because I haven't look into the detail yet. | 14:54 |
| mestery | OK, thanks roaet ! | 14:54 |
| roaet | thanks | 14:54 |
| mestery | Lets leave 5 minutes for bugs, there is a meeting right after this one so we have to end on time :) | 14:55 |
| mestery | #topic Bugs | 14:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:55 | |
| mestery | enikanorov_: Hi! | 14:55 |
| ajo | :D | 14:55 |
| enikanorov_ | hi | 14:55 |
| enikanorov_ | :) | 14:55 |
| enikanorov_ | here's a short list of bugs to discuss | 14:55 |
| mestery | I guess we get to highlight only a few bugs today ;) | 14:55 |
| enikanorov_ | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1414812 | 14:55 |
| russellb | related to bugs, this patch fixes hyper-v (sorry) https://review.openstack.org/#/c/150373/ | 14:55 |
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| enikanorov_ | hmm, does bot work? | 14:55 |
| mestery | Maybe it's busted :) | 14:55 |
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| enikanorov_ | ok, this one is related to dvr-job, armax is handling it | 14:56 |
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| mestery | enikanorov_: It's in the queue I think | 14:56 |
| russellb | yep | 14:56 |
| enikanorov_ | second one "Delete subnet can fail for SLAAC/DHCP_STATELESS with 409" https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1414199 | 14:56 |
| enikanorov_ | with a patch on review from salv-orlando | 14:56 |
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| enikanorov_ | back to https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1382064 - "Failure to allocate tunnel id when creating networks concurrently" | 14:57 |
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| enikanorov_ | we tried to fix that with changing transaction isolation level | 14:57 |
| enikanorov_ | which created more issues that solved | 14:57 |
| enikanorov_ | so now there's another patch on review, that employes retry approach similar to nova's | 14:57 |
| enikanorov_ | russellb: welcome to review the patch | 14:58 |
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| enikanorov_ | russellb: btw, i've rebased your patch on default api_workers on that fix | 14:58 |
| russellb | yeah saw that, thanks | 14:58 |
| ihrachyshka | with my red hat on, I'd like folks to consider https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1413042 since currently neutron/kilo is broken on centos7/rhel7 | 14:58 |
| enikanorov_ | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/149261 | 14:58 |
| enikanorov_ | finally, https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1411816 - "DB failure during functional job run" | 14:59 |
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| enikanorov_ | that one was fixed by a revert of one of previous commits (tx isolation level change) | 14:59 |
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| enikanorov_ | but it revealed the issue with functional DB tests | 14:59 |
| enikanorov_ | which worth to be fixed | 15:00 |
| mestery | OK, we're at time now I think. | 15:00 |
| enikanorov_ | aaand that's it | 15:00 |
| mestery | enikanorov_: Thanks for the updates on bugs! | 15:00 |
| markvoelker | One last thing: don't forget to wish mestery a happy birthday today everybody! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ImgF-gesXE | 15:00 |
| mestery | I encourage folks to jump into #openstack-neutron to continue | 15:00 |
| mestery | markvoelker: lol :) | 15:00 |
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| mestery | We'll see you all next week! | 15:00 |
| mestery | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 27 15:00:41 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| enikanorov_ | markvoelker: now you made us look like we've forgotten! | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-01-27-14.02.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-01-27-14.02.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-01-27-14.02.log.html | 15:00 |
| enikanorov_ | :) | 15:00 |
| russellb | ha @ happy birthday metal | 15:00 |
| mestery | enikanorov_: :P | 15:00 |
| rkukura | mestery: OK if we retarget https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ml2-hierarchical-port-binding for kilo-2 now that the 1st patch merged and matrohon and I figured out why the 2nd broke the DVR tempest tests? | 15:01 |
| mestery | lol | 15:01 |
| mestery | rkukura: Lets sync with armax on that, can you start ML thread? | 15:01 |
| rkukura | mestery: sure | 15:01 |
| rkukura | mestery: I’ll pull you and armax into an existing thread | 15:01 |
| rkukura | and the ML | 15:02 |
| mestery | rkukura: Ack, thanks! | 15:02 |
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| msdubov_ | #startmeeting Rally | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 27 17:00:39 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is msdubov_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rally' | 17:00 |
| msdubov_ | andreykurilin: amaretskiy: aarefiev: jlk: oanufriev: paboldin: pboldin: redixin: rvasilets: Hi | 17:00 |
| pboldin | jo | 17:00 |
| amaretskiy | hi | 17:00 |
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| aarefiev | hi | 17:01 |
| oanufriev | hi | 17:01 |
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| rvasilets | hi | 17:01 |
| msdubov_ | Let's start | 17:01 |
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| msdubov_ | #topic Rally release | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rally release (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:01 | |
| msdubov_ | So great news guys | 17:01 |
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| msdubov_ | Rally now has its first release: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/rally/0.0.1 | 17:01 |
| msdubov_ | 0.0.1 | 17:01 |
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| pboldin | (cheers) | 17:02 |
| msdubov_ | (beer) | 17:02 |
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| msdubov_ | Okay let's move further | 17:03 |
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| msdubov_ | So we are still working on several things that were planned for the 0.0.1 release | 17:03 |
| msdubov_ | Let's talk about them | 17:03 |
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| msdubov_ | #topic Python 3.4 support | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Python 3.4 support (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:04 | |
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| msdubov_ | andreykurilin: How are things going with your patch? | 17:04 |
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| msdubov_ | andreykurilin: (Hope you are here) | 17:04 |
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| msdubov_ | Okay seems like Andrey is not here, so let me give the link to the patch which is going to add Python 3 support: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/148763/ | 17:06 |
| msdubov_ | It makes the gate-rally-python34 finish in SUCCESS (!) | 17:06 |
| msdubov_ | but for some reason fails other jobs | 17:07 |
| msdubov_ | So that's now under investigation of andreykurilin | 17:07 |
| msdubov_ | #topic Rally API | 17:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rally API (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:07 | |
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| msdubov_ | Another nice thing is the refactoring of rally.api: https://review.openstack.org/149597 https://review.openstack.org/150468 | 17:07 |
| msdubov_ | Now we are going to use classes with classmethods instead of just methods | 17:08 |
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| msdubov_ | Also we are going to unify namings etc. | 17:08 |
| msdubov_ | This is what I'm currently working on and I hope it will be merged soon | 17:08 |
| msdubov_ | Note that the old API methods are going to be deprecated | 17:08 |
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| msdubov_ | #topic New context classes in Rally | 17:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "New context classes in Rally (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:09 | |
| msdubov_ | pboldin, Could you please tell us a bit about your work? | 17:09 |
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| pboldin | msdubov_, i'm currently preparing a set of patches for utilities | 17:10 |
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| pboldin | msdubov_: these were separated from the big patch so it is easier to review and merge them | 17:10 |
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| msdubov_ | pboldin:Yep, and what's the functionality they introduce? | 17:11 |
| pboldin | msdubov_: regarding the `benchmark_image` context there is still discussions going on | 17:11 |
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| pboldin | msdubov_: one of them is for fixing the informativity of the TimeoutException | 17:11 |
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| pboldin | msdubov_: one another is to create secgroup/keypairs for admin user as well (needed by following patches) | 17:11 |
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| pboldin | msdubov_: third one introduces an eat-all-exceptions context that is to be used in following code as well | 17:12 |
| pboldin | msdubov_: em | 17:12 |
| msdubov_ | pboldin: Sees like that this third context is a nice idea | 17:12 |
| msdubov_ | pboldin: Thanks! | 17:12 |
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| msdubov_ | #topic HTML reports for functional tests | 17:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "HTML reports for functional tests (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:13 | |
| msdubov_ | oanufriev: Any progress on HTML reports in functional tests? | 17:13 |
| oanufriev | no | 17:14 |
| oanufriev | there is no review of boris_42 | 17:14 |
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| oanufriev | eom | 17:14 |
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| msdubov_ | oanufriev: I also saw another patch from you considering validation, what is it doing? | 17:15 |
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| oanufriev | It's WIP now. The idea is not to create Task db record during validation of task config file | 17:16 |
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| oanufriev | so, we could say that "This is refactoring of task verification" | 17:17 |
| oanufriev | eom | 17:17 |
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| msdubov_ | oanufriev: Thanks. | 17:17 |
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| msdubov_ | #topic Quotas.neutron_update scenario | 17:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Quotas.neutron_update scenario (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:20 | |
| msdubov_ | rvasilets: So AFAIK this is the patch you are currently working on - how is the progress there? | 17:20 |
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| rvasilets | As I thing I have finished working on it | 17:21 |
| rvasilets | All nits by code was solved | 17:22 |
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| rvasilets | jenkins says +1) | 17:22 |
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| rvasilets | I have tested it on devstack | 17:22 |
| rvasilets | it's working | 17:22 |
| rvasilets | eom | 17:22 |
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| msdubov_ | rvasilets: Nice! Will review it | 17:23 |
| rvasilets | Thx | 17:23 |
| msdubov_ | #topic PostgreSQL support in Rally | 17:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PostgreSQL support in Rally (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:23 | |
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| msdubov_ | redixin is not here | 17:24 |
| msdubov_ | he's made a patch that fixes a couple of postgres-related bugs: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/148907/ | 17:24 |
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| msdubov_ | and now Rally supports it | 17:25 |
| msdubov_ | Another great news actually | 17:25 |
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| msdubov_ | #topic Fix in Cinder nested snapshots scenario | 17:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Fix in Cinder nested snapshots scenario (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:27 | |
| msdubov_ | aarefiev: Hi! | 17:27 |
| aarefiev | hi | 17:27 |
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| msdubov_ | aarefiev: Could you please tell us what was the problem and how you fixed it? | 17:27 |
| aarefiev | there was a problem with deleting order | 17:27 |
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| aarefiev | we try to delete snapshot with related volume | 17:28 |
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| aarefiev | i fixed it with change deleting order | 17:28 |
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| aarefiev | eom | 17:29 |
| msdubov_ | aarefiev: Thanks for the fix! | 17:29 |
| msdubov_ | #topic Free discussion | 17:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Free discussion (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:29 | |
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| aarefiev | msdubov_: np | 17:30 |
| amaretskiy | Just to note: I'm currently working on new chart in html report | 17:30 |
| msdubov_ | andreykurilin: amaretskiy: aarefiev: jlk: oanufriev: paboldin: pboldin: redixin: rvasilets: Guys I'm exhausted for new topics for today :) Anything to discuss? | 17:30 |
| amaretskiy | this chart is about iterations in parallel | 17:30 |
| amaretskiy | eom | 17:30 |
| msdubov_ | amaretskiy: Oh great | 17:30 |
| rvasilets | No | 17:30 |
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| msdubov_ | amaretskiy: Thanks | 17:30 |
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| msdubov_ | amaretskiy: Can you provide us with a link so we can see how it looks like? | 17:32 |
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| amaretskiy | http://logs.openstack.org/14/146814/4/check/gate-rally-dsvm-rally/5400cc8/rally-plot/results.html.gz#/SaharaNodeGroupTemplates.create_delete_node_group_templates/overview | 17:32 |
| amaretskiy | this is WIP | 17:32 |
| amaretskiy | i believe today;s patch set will be good | 17:33 |
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| msdubov_ | amaretskiy: Great! | 17:33 |
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| msdubov_ | andreykurilin: amaretskiy: aarefiev: jlk: oanufriev: paboldin: pboldin: redixin: rvasilets: So I believe we can finish our meeting | 17:34 |
| oanufriev | sure | 17:34 |
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| msdubov_ | oanufriev: =) | 17:34 |
| rvasilets | Agree | 17:34 |
| msdubov_ | #endmeeting | 17:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:34 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 27 17:34:30 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:34 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-01-27-17.00.html | 17:34 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-01-27-17.00.txt | 17:34 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-01-27-17.00.log.html | 17:34 |
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| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Gerrit and Zuul will be offline for a few minutes for a security update | 17:53 | |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, ayoung, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, nkinder, lloydm, shrekuma, ksavich, hrybacki, rharwood, grantbow, vdreamarkitex, raildo, rodrigods, amakarov, ajayaa, hogepodge, breton, lhcheng, nonameentername, samueldmq, htruta, amolock https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 17:59 |
| rodrigods | o/ | 17:59 |
| dstanek | o/ | 17:59 |
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| jeblair | morganfainberg: hold please | 17:59 |
| raildo | o/ | 17:59 |
| morganfainberg | jeblair, sure. | 17:59 |
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| lbragstad | o/ | 17:59 |
| amakarov | o/ | 17:59 |
| bknudson | holding! | 18:00 |
| stevemar | o/ | 18:00 |
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| henrynash_ | hi | 18:00 |
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| samueldmq | o/ | 18:04 |
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| jeblair | morganfainberg: try now? | 18:04 |
| morganfainberg | #startmeeting Keystone | 18:05 |
| openstack` | Meeting started Tue Jan 27 18:05:03 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is morganfainberg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:05 |
| openstack` | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:05 |
| openstack` | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:05 |
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| morganfainberg | hm, jeblair ^ is that someone camping the name? why openstack is named openstack` ? | 18:05 |
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| morganfainberg | anyway | 18:05 |
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| morganfainberg | Hi! welcome back | 18:06 |
| morganfainberg | post mid cycle | 18:06 |
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| angelamolock | is that better :) | 18:06 |
| morganfainberg | aha | 18:06 |
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| morganfainberg | so we have lots of things to go over | 18:06 |
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| morganfainberg | but for the most part if the patch isn't in gate this week it wont land for k2 | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | so review code for BPs and Bugs for this milestone | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/kilo-2 | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | so here we go | 18:07 |
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| morganfainberg | #topic The best way to solve name clashing in domain -> project migration. | 18:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "The best way to solve name clashing in domain -> project migration. (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:08 | |
| morganfainberg | raildo o/ | 18:08 |
| raildo | o/ | 18:08 |
| raildo | In the reseller spec we are proposing that a domain will be a project with some more features( user and groups managemnt). so when hen creating a domain, keystone will also create a projectthat has the same id. | 18:08 |
| raildo | and we a proposing for all existing domains, a sql migration will create a project with an idthat matches the domain_id, but we have a problem in this migration. We can find some clashing names between domains and project, we can't change the domain name in this migration because we have domain specific config file that use this domain name. | 18:09 |
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| raildo | So the question is: What is the best way to solve the clashing name problem in the domains sql migration? | 18:09 |
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| rodrigods | might have domain-specific files using the name | 18:10 |
| henrynash_ | raildo: (well, we *might* have domain specifc config files if the cloud provider is using that feature) | 18:10 |
| morganfainberg | well 2 things. duplicating data in the project table is probably wrong. | 18:10 |
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| atiwari | I think we have agreed to migrate all domain to project | 18:10 |
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| atiwari | all existing one | 18:10 |
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| morganfainberg | and 2: the "domain" doesn't own itself in it's project list, so there should be no name-constraint issues | 18:10 |
| dolphm | If namespacing is preserved, what's the scenario where a conflict can be introduced? | 18:10 |
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| rodrigods | morganfainberg, 2: it doesn't? | 18:11 |
| morganfainberg | names are unique within a domian, no conflict can occur if you're not adding the "domain-project" to an already existing domain [since domains aren't nested no conflicts] | 18:11 |
| morganfainberg | aren't nested today | 18:11 |
| raildo | dolphm, maybe if we can get a token for a domain or a project, with the same name? | 18:11 |
| morganfainberg | rodrigods, if i ask what projects are in domain X, does domain X end up in that list? i think not | 18:11 |
| morganfainberg | since domain X is not in itself a project within the domain. | 18:11 |
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| rodrigods | morganfainberg, I thought they would be returned | 18:12 |
| rodrigods | since they are just a project with the domain feature | 18:12 |
| morganfainberg | rodrigods, ok but then the domain-project X doesn't show up under it's parent's project list? | 18:12 |
| dolphm | but, a project is not a child of itself | 18:13 |
| Haneef | What is there is an existing installation with project name = domain name? | 18:13 |
| rodrigods | morganfainberg, it appears in both lists? | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | rodrigods, no a project is not a child of itself | 18:13 |
| rodrigods | morganfainberg, ok, didn't get right the question | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, beat me to it ;) | 18:13 |
| dolphm | haneef: namespacing should be preserved, so it doesnt matter | 18:13 |
| henrynash_ | morganfainbeg: that was the tack I was on (and if that were true, then we don’t have a clashing issue)….it depends with the project that represents a domain is a fully fledged project in its own right | 18:13 |
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| dolphm | henrynash_: as opposed to..? | 18:14 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash_, it needs to be a fully fledged project, not sure what it would be otherwise | 18:14 |
| morganfainberg | but that doesn't change the namespace | 18:14 |
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| henrynash_ | morgainberg: so if it IS a fully feldged project, how come it’s not returned in a project list? | 18:15 |
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| rodrigods | morganfainberg, root projects are always domains? | 18:15 |
| rodrigods | right? | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash_, becasue it isn't a child of itself. | 18:15 |
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| morganfainberg | rodrigods, yes. | 18:15 |
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| raildo | rodrigods, right; | 18:15 |
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| henrynash_ | morganfainberg: so I can get_project on it……but not list it (if my only permission visibility is my domain) | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash_, if you ask for projects in domain X, domain X does not itself end up in that list | 18:16 |
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| henrynash_ | morganfainberg: agreed…this is a good conversation, since I’ve been arguing your position up to now! | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash_, the same as it works today. | 18:17 |
| bknudson | if you ask for projects in project X, project X does not itself end up in that list | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | correct | 18:17 |
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| rodrigods | morganfainberg, ok... imagine the following hierarchy | 18:18 |
| bknudson | can I have a project named X in project X? | 18:18 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, yep, same reason it works today with domains, but you cannot have 2 projects named X in the parent X | 18:18 |
| henrynash_ | morganfainberg: so my proposal earlier this week was that we could indeed avoid any name clashes since the uniquness of the project table would be: (‘name’, ‘domain_id’, “domain-ness-flag’) | 18:18 |
| morganfainberg | it can be X all the way down. | 18:18 |
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| bknudson | -- only if the project is a domain. | 18:19 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, sure. | 18:19 |
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| jamielennox | i don't think you need the domain-ness-flag as part of that unique constraint | 18:19 |
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| raildo | henrynash_, and I liked this proposal :) | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, yeah i think you're right | 18:20 |
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| rodrigods | why do we need the domain-ness flag and domain_id fields at all? | 18:20 |
| rodrigods | ahh, domain-ness flag for domains that aren't root | 18:20 |
| jamielennox | rodrigods: because a name is only unique within it's parent | 18:20 |
| rodrigods | right? | 18:20 |
| raildo | maybe we can remove the domain-ness flag | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | rodrigods, even if they are root, they need the flag | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | it is for compat with v3 api, what are my domains | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | get_domains | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | needs to return soemthing sane | 18:21 |
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| rodrigods | morganfainberg, if they are root, they are domains (just see if they parent_id=None) | 18:21 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: are we going to flatten that out in response? | 18:21 |
| henrynash_ | so we need to be able to store a project named “Test” in domain “Test”…so something must differentiate between the two | 18:21 |
| jamielennox | henrynash_: parent_id | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, i think the standard v3 call only returns top-level | 18:22 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | rodrigods, but parent_id would be set if a domain X was under domain Y | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | both are domains | 18:22 |
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| morganfainberg | don't rely on parent_id being unset | 18:22 |
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| morganfainberg | domain-flag is still going to be needed to limit things such as tying an idp to a domain etc. | 18:22 |
| rodrigods | morganfainberg, true, that was before I realized why we need the domain-ness flag | 18:22 |
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| jamielennox | morganfainberg: but in which case do we need the flag at all or is the top level of the tree always domains? | 18:23 |
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| morganfainberg | jamielennox, top of the tree is domains, but domains can be nested under domains | 18:23 |
| henrynash_ | don’t we need the flag on every project entry that is a domain? | 18:23 |
| rodrigods | ++ | 18:23 |
| jamielennox | right - but do we need the flag further down | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, lets keep it consistent and always use the flag for a domain | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, even at the top | 18:23 |
| jamielennox | henrynash_: that was the decision from summit - it's early and i'm trying to wrap my head around it again | 18:23 |
| * topol we can afford the bytes lets use the flag :-) | 18:24 | |
| henrynash_ | jamielennox:….otherwise how do you know which child is a proejct vs a domain | 18:24 |
| rodrigods | so we are going to drop the domain_id column ? | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | rodrigods, no. | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | rodrigods, you can't | 18:24 |
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| jamielennox | henrynash_: beyond compatibility with GET /v3/domains do we care? | 18:24 |
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| bknudson | actually allowing NULL for the field will cost a byte | 18:24 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: (in the backend you can - it's just an implementation detail) | 18:24 |
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| rodrigods | morganfainberg, ah, ok it is an easy way to figure out which is some project's domain without the need to find the root | 18:25 |
| bknudson | a byte per row | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, we could have a separate table but eh. | 18:25 |
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| morganfainberg | rodrigods, you still need to tie a project to it's domain. | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | or a domain to it's parent domain | 18:25 |
| rodrigods | ++ | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | where parent_id may match domain_id in that latter case, but make the lookups consistent | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | and nullable domain_id makes sense for top-level projects | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | or root domains | 18:26 |
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| raildo | morganfainberg, ++ | 18:26 |
| henrynash_ | the only (minor) question I had was whether that null domain_id WAS teh domain_ness flag | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash_, i think not. | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash_, make the is_domain flag explicit | 18:26 |
| rodrigods | henrynash_, because the domains hierarchy | 18:27 |
| samueldmq | henrynash_, no, we need domain-ness flag for subdomainss | 18:27 |
| henrynash_ | and I’m absolutelyy fine with that | 18:27 |
| bknudson | if the projects domain id matches the project id then it's a domain. | 18:27 |
| rodrigods | bknudson, can't be true for subdomains | 18:27 |
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| gyee | if it quack like a duck, then it must be a duck | 18:27 |
| samueldmq | bknudson, think it works | 18:28 |
| dolphm | wait, we're not inventing new project IDs for every existing domain, are we? | 18:28 |
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| jamielennox | gyee: you're a duck | 18:28 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, no we can't | 18:28 |
| gyee | quack, quack | 18:28 |
| samueldmq | bknudson, and for subdomains we use the parent_id as usual | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, domain_id -> project_id | 18:28 |
| dolphm | ++ | 18:28 |
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| morganfainberg | the chance for collision should be *very* small | 18:28 |
| dolphm | i'm willing to accept the risk | 18:28 |
| rodrigods | dolphm, \o/ | 18:29 |
| bknudson | When it fails I'll tell them dolphm will fix it. | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | if there is a collision there there is nothing programatic we can do, operator will need to handle because "which one wins" isn't a quest i want to answer | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | some cases project should win. some cases domain should. | 18:29 |
| raildo | morganfainberg, yes, and if happens we can change the domain_id and update every user, group and project to point to this domain, but as you say, this chance is really very small | 18:29 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: you're getting way too edge casey :P | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, it should be a near zero risk | 18:30 |
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| dstanek | domain and project ids are specified by the end user right? they are not guid | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, which means... i don't think we need to answer - just protect against it and tell the operator what happened if it breaks | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, uuid4 | 18:30 |
| rodrigods | dstanek, uuids | 18:30 |
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| samueldmq | morganfainberg, it's the same case to create a new project and get an existing id from the ids generator | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | in oooooold deployments project could be set by the user | 18:31 |
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| morganfainberg | project_id | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | like... diablo and essex i think | 18:31 |
| rodrigods | so... | 18:31 |
| rodrigods | we don't care about name clashing | 18:31 |
| rodrigods | but we should add a new constraint | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | but domains have always been uuid | 18:31 |
| rodrigods | which will be... | 18:31 |
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| dstanek | hmmm...i thought we used ids if provided and if not provided then generated | 18:31 |
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| dolphm | "the extinction of all life on earth will occur long before you have a collision, even on a version 4 UUID" | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, in most cases we run ._ensure_unique_id | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, which replaces with uuid4 | 18:32 |
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| morganfainberg | anyway | 18:32 |
| dstanek | morganfainberg: i'm thinking v2 projects - other seem fine | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | ok we need to move on | 18:33 |
| bknudson | a 'default' project / domain will need to be created. | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | lots to cover. | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | we can discuss this more in -keystone and in review | 18:33 |
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| dolphm | morganfainberg: even in diablo, i think we just used str(uuid4) instead of .hex | 18:33 |
| dolphm | and eeearly diablo used auto inc ints for tenant IDs | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | #topic IDP and relationship with domains and projects-that-are-domains | 18:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "IDP and relationship with domains and projects-that-are-domains (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:33 | |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, raildo o/ | 18:33 |
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| rodrigods | different spec than reseller, right? ^ | 18:34 |
| raildo | Idp are the domain's container(or should be) and now that we are changing how the domain will works, ayoung have a concern about that, maybe we need to change something in this implementation. | 18:34 |
| raildo | So I think that this discussion is out of scope of the reseller spec, but we really need to define better this relationship between Idp and project domain-ness (domain). | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | raildo, i think we covered this at the mid-cycle | 18:34 |
| raildo | morganfainberg, great | 18:35 |
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| raildo | I just don't know the answers :) | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | an IDP can be tied to a domain. which means that users from that IDP can be mapped to that domain's groups (and only that idp's users) | 18:35 |
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| gyee | IdP is indirectly tied to domain via group mapping, but that'll change with directly user mapping | 18:35 |
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| morganfainberg | if a domain doesn't not have a relationship to the domain, any idp can map to the groups (as we allow today) | 18:35 |
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| morganfainberg | this also opens the door to directly map federated users to an exissting user in keystone | 18:36 |
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| morganfainberg | same restriction | 18:36 |
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| rodrigods | marekd's spec? | 18:36 |
| raildo | morganfainberg, great, so I think that I don't need to explain nothing about that in the reseller spec, right? | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | i think marked has a spec. | 18:36 |
| rodrigods | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/149071/ | 18:36 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: many federated users mapping to a single identity is going to be a common use case | 18:37 |
| rodrigods | great | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | raildo, yep should have no impact on reseller directly | 18:37 |
| raildo | morganfainberg, ok, thanks :) | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, we can always loosen the restriction of number of IDPs to a domain | 18:37 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, but we started with 1 idp per domain to make sure we get it right. iirc | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | ok next topic | 18:38 |
| gyee | sounds reasonable | 18:38 |
| dolphm | yep | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Review Client Release Blockers - ETA on Release Feb 1 | 18:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Client Release Blockers - ETA on Release Feb 1 (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:38 | |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, o/ | 18:38 |
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| gyee | morganfainberg, but conversely an IdP can map to multiple domains right? | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | this also applies to keystonemiddleware | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, yes. no restriction there [today's usecase] | 18:38 |
| jamielennox | right - so we want to bump keystoneclient and keystonemiddleware up to a 1 month release cycle | 18:38 |
| gyee | sounds good | 18:38 |
| jamielennox | so at the start of every month we do a release of both | 18:38 |
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| jamielennox | this means that people need to get back into doing client reviews as the first one of these is planned for 3 days time | 18:39 |
| bknudson | why not weekly? | 18:39 |
| rodrigods | \o/ have two changes in the client | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, the only exception is RC for the named release there may be an extra release in there or a late release - so we have a clear "this release is the one we released along side of the named openstack release" | 18:39 |
| rodrigods | to implement basic HMT handling | 18:39 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: because no one will take me seriously when i push them for reviews every week | 18:39 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: sure | 18:40 |
| bknudson | I didn't realize we were waiting for release boundaries to do reviews. | 18:40 |
| gyee | jamielennox, are you doing another rev on this one? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/149071/ | 18:40 |
| samueldmq | bknudson, ++ | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, we aren't really. just ksc has been slower so this is more of a lets do more consistent releases - this one being the bigger one since we have some stuff backed up | 18:40 |
| dolphm | bknudson: ++ | 18:40 |
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| jamielennox | bknudson: it's partially to just increase the cadence rather than wait for some big feature, but also to set goals for each release | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, if there is no new code, no release is needed | 18:41 |
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| jamielennox | there is new code .... | 18:41 |
| jamielennox | and much more stuck in reveiw | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, there may be a month there isn't. it is unlikely but we're not releasing for the sake of releasing :P | 18:41 |
| dolphm | conversely, if there is a high priority bug fix, it should be released immediately instead of waiting for a scheduled release | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, always | 18:41 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: ++ | 18:41 |
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| jamielennox | morganfainberg: i'm looking forward to that time | 18:42 |
| gyee | is there a way to query reviews based on bug priority? | 18:42 |
| gyee | maybe using dolphm's next-review? | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, look at LP, next-review, bugday | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, plenty of options | 18:42 |
| bknudson | There's 66 open reviews in python-keystoneclient | 18:42 |
| jamielennox | anyway - there are a bunch of things that have yet to see review in client that have been around since december | 18:42 |
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| gyee | k | 18:42 |
| dolphm | gyee: http://status.openstack.org/reviews/ | 18:42 |
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| jamielennox | major ones are marked in the gist in the channel home pages | 18:43 |
| gyee | dolphm, ah, thank | 18:43 |
| jamielennox | i'll be around for the next few hours (and in general) if anyone wants to dicuss any of them | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | so, review code, review more code, please review code | 18:43 |
| gyee | yes, yes, yes | 18:43 |
| bknudson | I don't want to have to check all sorts of places for reviews... we've already got launchpad with the bugs and blueprints | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, the only reason to look beyond lp and review.o.o is if you want different sorting metrics | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | need to keep moving here. | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Domain roles APIs addition | 18:44 |
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| rodrigods | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/115770/ is almost in the bottom =( | 18:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Domain roles APIs addition (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:44 | |
| dolphm | Reviews Guarantee Citizenship | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | o/ | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash_, samueldmq, o/ | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | just a bit of context ... | 18:45 |
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| gyee | dolphm, nice :) | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | a domain role is a list of one or more roles and/or other domain roles, and is name-spaced to a domain | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | domain roles can be used as part of an assignment, in the same was as you can assign a global role, it's proposed at #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/133855 | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | and I think the general idea is agreed over the community, right? | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | but regarding the API changes, #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/139531 | 18:46 |
| samueldmq | i) we need a new CRUD for domain-roles, making possible to create and handle domain-role members | 18:46 |
| samueldmq | this first point is a requirement, as it is a new entity | 18:46 |
| samueldmq | ii) to use a domain-role wherever we use a global role, we can create new API for handling assignments or reuse the existent ones for global roles | 18:46 |
| gyee | samueldmq, only issue I have with domain roles is to explain to people the difference between roles and domain roles | 18:46 |
| samueldmq | for instance, add PUT /projects/{project_id}/groups/{group_id}/domain_roles/{domain_role_id} in addition to PUT /projects/{project_id}/groups/{group_id}/roles/{role_id} | 18:46 |
| gyee | people = support, customers, doc writers, etc | 18:46 |
| stevemar | gyee, ++ | 18:47 |
| stevemar | i have enough trouble explaining roles | 18:47 |
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| samueldmq | well, henrynash_ may correct me if I'm wrong, domain roles will be scoped to domains and then used by domain admins | 18:47 |
| Haneef | gyee: previous name role_groups was better | 18:47 |
| gyee | yes | 18:47 |
| henrynash_ | gyee, stevemar: domain_roles are the customer-centric roles that domain admins can create, that mean something to THEIR customers….and typically domain admins haev no ability to change the policy file | 18:48 |
| samueldmq | that allow domain admins to create roles with custom names .. | 18:48 |
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| dolphm | if we don't domains anymore, these just become projects roles which will be super awesome to disambiguate from "roles" | 18:48 |
| gyee | henrynash_, but we have have ducks! | 18:49 |
| gyee | sorry I mean roles | 18:49 |
| samueldmq | dolphm, ++ | 18:49 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++ | 18:49 |
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| henrynash_ | gyee: how does a domain_admin who works for customer X which is being hosted on a public cloud get to makea global role have impact on policy | 18:49 |
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| gyee | can project roles inherit to other projects? | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash_, *handwavey, timey, wimey, future* | 18:50 |
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| henrynash_ | morganfainberg: really? | 18:50 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: sad ++ | 18:50 |
| samueldmq | gyee, yes | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, yeah i know | 18:50 |
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| morganfainberg | dynamic policy | 18:50 |
| samueldmq | gyee, you can use it as the same as global roles | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | that is how people change policy who are not global. | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | perproject/perdomain/perwhatever | 18:51 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung has a bunch of specs on it ;) | 18:51 |
| raildo | gyee, yes, we implementing this for HMT | 18:51 |
| dolphm | henrynash_: i think domain admins should be able to define their own additional policy (morgan's dynamic policy) first, and then it makes much more sense to discuss additional role definitions | 18:51 |
| lbragstad | ~9 minutes left | 18:51 |
| gyee | global roles? I haven't heard of that since KSL :) | 18:51 |
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| bknudson | gyee: you haven't heard of the admin role? | 18:52 |
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| morganfainberg | ok we are strapped for time | 18:52 |
| henrynash_ | morganfainberg, dolphm: so this is something we agreed at the summit, no? | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash_, pretty much-ish just inverting the priority | 18:52 |
| gyee | bknudson, but it's not "global roles" | 18:52 |
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| gyee | I am sure dolphm can fill you in on the history of "global roles" | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | do dynamic policy then defined roles vs inverse | 18:52 |
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| morganfainberg | ok we can do history lessons later | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | we need to move on | 18:53 |
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| morganfainberg | #topic Functional testing changes | 18:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Functional testing changes (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:53 | |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, o/ | 18:53 |
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| dstanek | this should be quick | 18:53 |
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| morganfainberg | (skipping role inheritance, sorry, we'll come back to it if we have time at the end) | 18:53 |
| dstanek | i wanted to show everyone this: http://paste.openstack.org/show/162858/ | 18:53 |
| samueldmq | morganfainberg, np | 18:53 |
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| dstanek | and just make sure the side effects were acceptable so i can let others know | 18:54 |
| bknudson | whew, it's safe for work. | 18:54 |
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| dstanek | bknudson: next one might not be | 18:54 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, i think that is ok. | 18:54 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, since we can "not move" until we're sure coverage is comparable | 18:54 |
| gyee | dstanek, I would love to test it out with the SSL authz stuff | 18:55 |
| bknudson | what's needed for "our side" ? | 18:55 |
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| dstanek | yep, ok - it's very similar to the message i had at the mid-cycle, but wanted to make it explicit | 18:55 |
| bknudson | anything need to be reviewed? | 18:55 |
| gyee | only problem is how to get FreeIPA in there to give me some certs | 18:55 |
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| jamielennox | gyee: do you have a client plugin side for that? | 18:56 |
| dstanek | bknudson: the second part of the spec we ripped in half and then updating the changeset to match | 18:56 |
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| morganfainberg | dstanek, i chatted with jeblair about this and gave him a heads up we'd track him down for some specifics | 18:56 |
| dstanek | bknudson: there are a few things i just pushed, but nothing critical - those were config updates | 18:56 |
| gyee | jamielennox, for SSL authz, we just need a dummy adaptor for token_auth | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, of what we can/can't put in the keystone repo etc | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | vs. devstack | 18:57 |
| jamielennox | dummy adapter? | 18:57 |
| morganfainberg | vs. *other places* | 18:57 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, we're strapped for time, IPA can be discussed outside of this meeting. | 18:57 |
| lbragstad | bknudson: dstanek #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/keystone+branch:master+topic:bp/functional-testing,n,z | 18:57 |
| lbragstad | ? | 18:57 |
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| jamielennox | gyee: oh - you just want to fake out the auth part and you make the session handle the certs? | 18:57 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, cc ^ | 18:57 |
| gyee | jamielennox, precisely | 18:57 |
| gyee | since there are no tokens involved | 18:57 |
| bknudson | merge conflict as soon as it was posted. | 18:57 |
| morganfainberg | ok so we're going to move on here | 18:57 |
| morganfainberg | i want to get breton his couple minutes | 18:58 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Alembic Status and Blockers | 18:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Alembic Status and Blockers (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:58 | |
| morganfainberg | breton, o/ | 18:58 |
| breton | Though the spec is not yet accepted, I've almost finished Alembic stuff. It can be found here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/147548/ and here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/150057/ and another patch will arrive soon. | 18:58 |
| breton | it required some collaboration with oslo_db team, because no one was using their migration_cli feature and we found and fixed some bugs. | 18:58 |
| breton | for example, this — https://review.openstack.org/#/c/134885/9 . | 18:58 |
| breton | my patches could work without the patch above, but that would require dirty hacks like line 184 on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/147548/8/keystone/tests/test_sql_upgrade.py | 18:58 |
| breton | But the hacks are (almost) all in tests. | 18:58 |
| breton | it will take some time to have: | 18:58 |
| breton | 1. required oslo_db's features merged | 18:58 |
| breton | 2. oslo_db released | 18:58 |
| breton | 3. the new oslo_db landed to keystone | 18:58 |
| breton | What should I do: Wait for the new oslo_db to land in Keystone and remove the hacks or | 18:58 |
| breton | leave the hacks and remove them in follow-up patches? | 18:58 |
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| bknudson | my preference is wait for oslo_db. | 18:59 |
| morganfainberg | i would rather wait for oslo_db. if it is going to be before k3 (should be doable) | 18:59 |
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| dstanek | mine too - don't like the idea of monkey patching | 18:59 |
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| breton | ok, got it | 19:00 |
| morganfainberg | i'd like this support in kilo but it honestly could wait until L if we can't hit k3, we're still chugging along w/ SQL-A Migrate | 19:00 |
| morganfainberg | but waiting is a better bet | 19:00 |
| morganfainberg | annnnnnd that is time. | 19:00 |
| morganfainberg | thanks everyone | 19:00 |
| morganfainberg | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 27 19:00:43 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-01-27-18.05.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-01-27-18.05.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-01-27-18.05.log.html | 19:00 |
| * morganfainberg makes sure to let -infra do -infra magic :) | 19:00 | |
| clarkb | ohai | 19:01 |
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| nibalizer | hello | 19:01 |
| fungi | we're sidetracked by black magic | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #delaymeeting infra 5 mins | 19:01 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:01 |
| * nibalizer nods emphatic agreement with fungi | 19:01 | |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:02 |
| anteaya | oh goodness more meetings | 19:02 |
| morganfainberg | anteaya. meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetttttttttttingsssssssssss | 19:02 |
| anteaya | with music | 19:02 |
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| ayoung | I'm here | 19:04 |
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| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:06 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 27 19:06:00 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:06 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:06 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:06 |
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| cody-somerville | \o | 19:06 |
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| jeblair | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:06 |
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| jeblair | #link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-01-20-19.02.html | 19:06 |
| asselin_ | hi | 19:07 |
| krtaylor | o/ | 19:07 |
| mmedvede__ | o/ | 19:07 |
| jeblair | #topic libc CVE reboot | 19:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "libc CVE reboot (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:07 | |
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| jeblair | so first, as a public service announcement, we are in the process of rebooting all of our affected hosts due to a vulnerability in libc | 19:07 |
| jeblair | we've completed nearly all of the hosts running precise, and are awaiting updated packages for our centos hosts | 19:08 |
| jeblair | trusty is apparently not affected | 19:08 |
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| clarkb | have we confirmed that? I know I inferred it because it didn't have new packages yet | 19:09 |
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| pleia2 | the security announcement said only 10.04 and 12.04 were impacted | 19:09 |
| pleia2 | http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-2485-1/ | 19:09 |
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| nibalizer | the cve said that it was fixed but the security implications were not recognized at that time | 19:09 |
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| fungi | right, patch to fix it landed a couple years ago | 19:10 |
| clarkb | oh good usn has it now | 19:10 |
| jeblair | so it seems plausible that the version in trusty is simply new enough. i have not indepedently confirmed that | 19:10 |
| clarkb | I see so thats nice | 19:10 |
| pleia2 | yep | 19:10 |
| clarkb | we should probably put more effort into the tusty all the things effort | 19:10 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: maybe? but i don't think this is a reason to do so | 19:11 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: ya this particular thing isn't a reason, but it does illustrate why having newer packages can be a good thing | 19:12 |
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| fungi | we could just as easily be faced next time with a bug which was only present on trusty | 19:12 |
| clarkb | yup | 19:12 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: in this case, yes, but quite often older packages are too old to have new bugs. things fall on both sides of the knife | 19:12 |
| fungi | if anything, newly-introduced security vulnerabilities are much more frequent than long-fixed newly-discovered ones | 19:13 |
| jeblair | so, yeah, we should move to trusty because it will be supported further in the future than precise | 19:13 |
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| fungi | which we are doing, here and there at least | 19:13 |
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| jeblair | #topic Schedule next project renames | 19:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Schedule next project renames (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:13 | |
| fungi | i'm open this weekend, or on friday if we want to do a friday afternoon thing | 19:14 |
| jeblair | we still only have attic moves, but some have been pending for a while | 19:14 |
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| clarkb | I can do saturday or friday but sunday is MURICA day lite | 19:14 |
| clarkb | I will be watching football and smoking meat | 19:14 |
| anteaya | I know annegent_ was asking about the ones she is advocating for | 19:14 |
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| annegent_ | please don't let sportsball stop you :) | 19:15 |
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| fungi | indeed, i had forgotten. the joys of not watching commercial television | 19:16 |
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| jeblair | friday then? | 19:16 |
| clarkb | wfm | 19:16 |
| fungi | sure | 19:16 |
| fungi | 1900 utc? earlier? later? | 19:17 |
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| jeblair | 1900 wfm | 19:17 |
| clarkb | 1900 wfm | 19:17 |
| jeblair | #agreed rename gerrit projects at 1900utc friday jan 30 | 19:18 |
| jeblair | i'll send the email | 19:18 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Swift logs) | 19:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Swift logs) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:18 | |
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| clarkb | I haven't seen jhesketh this morning so I can update here | 19:19 |
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| clarkb | jhesketh wrote a change to look for a magic number in the console log to know when the console log is complete when uploading to swift | 19:19 |
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| clarkb | unfortunately it went into an infinite loop because jenkins didn't appear to serve any additional bytes on top of what it originally served | 19:20 |
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| clarkb | current workaround for that is to try 20 wget attempts and upload whatever it gets at that point. still need to figure out why it wasn't serving any more data thouhg | 19:20 |
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| clarkb | the other thing that went in recently was better index file generation you should start seeing that today on swift logged logs. | 19:21 |
| jeblair | that is highly weird | 19:21 |
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| fungi | wondering if there's a jetty-side cache or something | 19:21 |
| clarkb | ya din't get much time to debug it last night and now libc. Hopefully we can figure it out soon | 19:21 |
| jeblair | clarkb, jhesketh: thanks! :) | 19:21 |
| fungi | didn't seem to be apache causing it at any rate | 19:21 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Puppet module split) | 19:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Puppet module split) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:22 | |
| jeblair | Reminder for Sprint: Wednesday January 28, 2015 at 1500 UTC | 19:22 |
| fungi | for those without calendars, that's TOMORROW! | 19:22 |
| jeblair | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VirtualSprints#Schedule_of_Upcoming_OpenStack_Virtual_Sprints | 19:22 |
| jeblair | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/puppet-module-split-sprint | 19:23 |
| jeblair | please sign up on the etherpad ^ | 19:23 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:module-split+status:open,n,z | 19:23 |
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| asselin_ | #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/302 | 19:23 |
| asselin_ | Remember to add yourself here too ^^ | 19:23 |
| asselin_ | link is in etherpad | 19:23 |
| jeblair | asselin_: thanks for your prep work! | 19:24 |
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| asselin_ | jeblair, you're welcome | 19:24 |
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| fungi | i'm looking forward to reviewing (and possibly breaking/troubleshooting) all the things | 19:25 |
| jeblair | and we'll see everyone tomorrow and hopefully end the day with a bunch of new gerrit repos :) | 19:25 |
| nibalizer | \o/ | 19:25 |
| clarkb | should be good fun | 19:25 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Nodepool DIB) | 19:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Nodepool DIB) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:25 | |
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| clarkb | no updates since last week on this. I was out most of last week. | 19:25 |
| jeblair | mordred: anything blocking you? | 19:26 |
| clarkb | I did however notice rax snapshot image builds for centos and precise were broken so that should be sorted with the next round of rebuilds | 19:26 |
| mordred | I mean | 19:26 |
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| mordred | other than openstack? | 19:26 |
| jeblair | mordred: anything we can help with? :) | 19:26 |
| mordred | jeblair: keep me from killing our cloud providers out of rage? | 19:26 |
| mordred | jeblair: I'm honestly getting quite close, which is why I'm ragey | 19:26 |
| mordred | but I've discovered a new way in which the rackspace catalog is broken but current tools have been hiding it | 19:27 |
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| clarkb | I hope to start work on moving away from unittest specific slaves as soon as the fires go away. I really don't know what the scope of that work is yet though (do we do it for stable branches? etc) | 19:27 |
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| mordred | oh - also - any infra-core who isn't watching the shade repo for reviews please do | 19:27 |
| fungi | gotta love breakage swept under the rug by tooling | 19:27 |
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| jeblair | mordred: and anyone with an interest in nodepool | 19:28 |
| mordred | I'm hoping to have a first-pass nodepool patch up today | 19:28 |
| fungi | clarkb: i'm guessing it's coming up with a new job macro which installs the additional packages we don't install on the devstack workers | 19:28 |
| jeblair | since we want to have shade be good enough to present a sensible interface to nodepool | 19:28 |
| mordred | it will not work - but will be something worth commenting on approach with | 19:28 |
| yolanda | mordred, i've been taking a look at that shade project. Mostly i'm missing tests , but maybe is that at an early stage? | 19:28 |
| mordred | yolanda: yes - it's massively missing tests ... I'd love help :) | 19:28 |
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| clarkb | fungi: ya which is a non trivial set. which means we need to cache on the images first, etc | 19:29 |
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| mordred | however - I have a question for folks on that ... | 19:29 |
| fungi | clarkb: yep | 19:29 |
| clarkb | fungi: since devstack isn't exactly the set of things you need | 19:29 |
| mordred | any thoughts on how to test that interactions with rackspace and hp public clouds as they exist in the wild work? | 19:29 |
| mordred | because I can test against devstack all day long without surfacing any of the issues we've been battling lately | 19:29 |
| clarkb | mordred: spin up a nodepool | 19:29 |
| fungi | mordred: we could do it pretty easily with flaky jobs | 19:30 |
| clarkb | mordred: or do ou mean generally? | 19:30 |
| mordred | I mean generally | 19:30 |
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| fungi | false negative rate would be pretty high | 19:30 |
| mordred | like, how do I functionally test shade to tell that it works with the real public clouds | 19:30 |
| yolanda | mordred, have testing accounts on that providers and launch tests against them instead of fake providers? | 19:30 |
| mordred | I suppose a set of massive fakes that return manually grabbed data as the clouds return it? | 19:30 |
| nibalizer | puppet does that kind of testing, it turns into a massive workpile whenever the universe changes | 19:31 |
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| jeblair | mordred: have you seen mimic? https://github.com/rackerlabs/mimic | 19:31 |
| jeblair | mordred: glyph mentioned it to me a while ago | 19:31 |
| mordred | neat! | 19:31 |
| mordred | maybe we shodl use that | 19:31 |
| mordred | I wonder if it's bug-for-bug compatible with rax? | 19:31 |
| jeblair | mordred: heh, yeah, there's a thought. :) | 19:32 |
| jeblair | "Mimic is an API-compatible mock service for Openstack Compute and Rackspace's implementation of Identity and Cloud Load balancers. It is backed by in-memory data structure rather than a potentially expensive database." | 19:32 |
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| mordred | worth looking at | 19:32 |
| jeblair | i'm kind of divided on this -- part of me is like "why is the word rackspace in there, why can't we have nice openstack things" but then, part of me says "hey, it's an implementation, it still may be worth testing against as-is" | 19:32 |
| jeblair | since, after all, we _actually_ want to use shade with rackspace :) | 19:33 |
| mordred | yah | 19:33 |
| mordred | that's kinda where I'm at | 19:33 |
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| mordred | that rackspace may or may not be an openstack at this point is not the point | 19:33 |
| mordred | the point is that it's one of my clouds and I need to use it | 19:33 |
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| jeblair | of course, if we have to write a patch to mimic to enable an hpcloud weirdness, that will be... instructive | 19:34 |
| jeblair | or even a normal openstack behavior that rackspace doesn't exhibit | 19:34 |
| yolanda | jeblair, mordred, and how can you be aware of any weirdness? | 19:35 |
| mordred | yah. well, I'd hope we can do that with devstack | 19:35 |
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| mordred | yolanda: when it breaks my local tests :) | 19:35 |
| yolanda | empiric testing :) | 19:35 |
| mordred | I currently test with a set of very bad scripts in my homedir that I point at rax and hp accounts | 19:35 |
| jeblair | mordred, yolanda: so maybe shade should have a test against devstack using a dsvm node, and a test against mimic | 19:35 |
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| mordred | jeblair: +1000 | 19:36 |
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| jeblair | so, land of opportunity here :) | 19:36 |
| jeblair | anything else on nodepool dib? | 19:36 |
| clarkb | not from me | 19:37 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Jobs on trusty) | 19:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Jobs on trusty) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:37 | |
| fungi | dhellmann has graciously started a thread on disabling py3k gating for oslo.messaging and oslo.rootwrap | 19:37 |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-January/055270.html | 19:37 |
| fungi | so far discussion seems to be accepting | 19:38 |
| mordred | yay | 19:38 |
| clarkb | I have pointed them at the bugs in question and answered a couple of the things that came up | 19:38 |
| fungi | if there are no major concerns raised by friday, we can go ahead and cut over | 19:38 |
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| fungi | i was running a full recheck of all the projects currently successfully gating on 3.3 against 3.4 but lost my held nodes in the great reboot of 2015 | 19:38 |
| fungi | so in the process of restarting them right now | 19:39 |
| jeblair | whoopsie | 19:39 |
| fungi | but will know before the day is out if there are any new projects which are failing and have slipped through the cracks | 19:39 |
| nibalizer | fungi: did you reboot the servers or just restart services? | 19:39 |
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| fungi | and plan to go ahead and whip up the change to switch them later this week | 19:39 |
| fungi | nibalizer: we rebooted all ubuntu precise servers after updating glibc on them | 19:40 |
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| * nibalizer nods | 19:40 | |
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| fungi | anyway, nothing new on that front otherwise | 19:40 |
| jeblair | fungi: thanks, progress! | 19:40 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Zanata) | 19:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Zanata) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:41 | |
| fungi | eta on getting fixed python 3.4 in trusty seems to be sometime in march probabkly | 19:41 |
| jeblair | pleia2: anything we can unblock? | 19:41 |
| pleia2 | I don't think so, just sorting out dependency issues now | 19:41 |
| pleia2 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/147947/ | 19:41 |
| clarkb | pleia2: I said I would review when in a layover thengot distracted by image building and things | 19:42 |
| clarkb | pleia2: will try to review that change sometime this week | 19:42 |
| pleia2 | I'll make a note in the review about what the order should be | 19:42 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/147947/ | 19:43 |
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| jeblair | #topic Options for procedural -2 (jeblair) | 19:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Options for procedural -2 (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:43 | |
| jeblair | zaro: have you had a chance to look at the current status of the wip plugin? | 19:43 |
| zaro | jeblair: sorry, i have not. will do this week for sure | 19:44 |
| jeblair | zaro: thanks! | 19:44 |
| jeblair | #action zaro look into the current status of the wip plugin and find out if it is ready for use in gerrit 2.9 and could be used for procedural -2 | 19:45 |
| jeblair | #topic Upgrading Gerrit (zaro) | 19:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Upgrading Gerrit (zaro) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:45 | |
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| zaro | zuul-dev is still in a broken state. need it working to continue testing. | 19:45 |
| fungi | we've got an ubuntu trusty review-dev built | 19:45 |
| zaro | fungi: says he's gonna take a look. | 19:46 |
| jeblair | what do we need to do to fix zuul-dev? | 19:46 |
| fungi | and yeah, i'm looking at zuul-dev errors this afternoon | 19:46 |
| jeblair | ok. so we're at "identify problem" stage with zuul-dev | 19:46 |
| zaro | i think something wrong with apache setup. | 19:46 |
| fungi | i assume the idea is to test gerrit 2.9.x with zuul | 19:46 |
| zaro | yes, that is the purpose | 19:46 |
| clarkb | note 2.10 just released right? is it worth moving the target for any features we want/need? | 19:47 |
| jeblair | zaro: you can run your own zuul locally to test | 19:47 |
| fungi | it's almost certainly just apache 2.4 syntax issues with the vhost config | 19:47 |
| jeblair | that's actually usually what i do | 19:47 |
| clarkb | if not I don't think we go to 2.10 simply because its there | 19:47 |
| fungi | but i haven't looked yet | 19:47 |
| jeblair | i usually reserve zuul-dev for testing zuul | 19:47 |
| zaro | jeblair: yes, but need to fix zuul-dev anyway right? | 19:47 |
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| zaro | yeah, i would hold off on 2.10 until users get to 'break it in' | 19:48 |
| jeblair | zaro: i mean, it wouldn't hurt, but i don't think we need to block the gerrit upgrade on it | 19:48 |
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| jeblair | #topic Open discussion | 19:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:49 | |
| zaro | understood. i may take that route. | 19:49 |
| pleia2 | nibalizer and I are presenting at fosdem on bits of infra this weekend (so airplanes and things coming up) | 19:50 |
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| mordred | pleia2: enjoy! | 19:51 |
| mordred | pleia2: also, don't forget to drink ALL THE BEER | 19:51 |
| fungi | hoping to hack on a nodepool bare-debian dib image later this week or next to see if we can run all our python 3.4 jobs successfully on it, and then that opens us up to be able to test other things on debian if we like | 19:51 |
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| pleia2 | mordred :D | 19:51 |
| jeblair | pleia2, nibalizer: yay! let us know if there's a video | 19:51 |
| jeblair | fungi: ++ | 19:51 |
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| pleia2 | will do | 19:51 |
| anteaya | pleia2: safe travels | 19:51 |
| anteaya | nibalizer: youtoo | 19:52 |
| nibalizer | thanks | 19:52 |
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| fungi | best of luck on your presentations. break several legs or something | 19:52 |
| clarkb | also eat at toukoul | 19:52 |
| nibalizer | :D | 19:52 |
| nibalizer | i'll be at the puppet contributor summit after fosdem, so can bring up bugs directly with developers, if we have any nonstandard ones lingering | 19:52 |
| fungi | remember to remind the entire audience that we need them to come hack on and review our code ;_ | 19:52 |
| zaro | looks like proposal to add a seperate notification channel in gerrit is dead: https://gerrit-review.googlesource.com/#/c/63259 | 19:53 |
| zaro | not sure if we want to do anything further to get it upstream? | 19:53 |
| fungi | that's unfortunate | 19:54 |
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| fungi | i'm not quite following why sven abandoned that change | 19:55 |
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| fungi | it seemed to be active as of yesterday | 19:55 |
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| zaro | i think he's basically thinks that it's fruitless to continue. | 19:56 |
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| clarkb | dave borowitz does seem to shoot it down pretty hard with comments yesterday | 19:56 |
| jeblair | he also said 2 weeks ago "I'm glad this feature is getting implemented." | 19:56 |
| fungi | https://gerrit-review.googlesource.com/58283 seems to still be open though | 19:56 |
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| fungi | looks like maybe it's just continying there? | 19:57 |
| fungi | er, continuing | 19:57 |
| zaro | it's just the same change. sven only split it up into multiple changes. | 19:57 |
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| zaro | 58283 was the one i worked on with David O. such wasted effort. | 19:58 |
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| zaro | 58283 was the original change, it was too big so sven split it up into 4 smaller changes. 6259 is one of the smaller change. | 19:59 |
| jeblair | it seems like the gist of dave borowitz's comments were about the specificity of the data | 19:59 |
| jeblair | zaro: perhaps you could discuss with dave what kind of data he would be comfortable having in the db | 19:59 |
| jeblair | zaro: because i don't think we need everything in there -- job name, result, and link are pretty universal | 20:00 |
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| jeblair | and even his last comment is a suggestion | 20:01 |
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| jeblair | zaro: anyway, i hope you find a way to continue, and thanks for trying regardless | 20:01 |
| jeblair | we're out of time, thanks everyone | 20:01 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 27 20:02:00 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-01-27-19.06.html | 20:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-01-27-19.06.txt | 20:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-01-27-19.06.log.html | 20:02 |
| ttx | Anyone here for the TC meeting ? | 20:02 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:02 |
| annegent_ | here | 20:02 |
| ttx | I saw jeblair 30 seconds ago | 20:02 |
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| ttx | russellb, jgriffith, mikal, mordred, devananda, vishy, markmcclain, jeblair, jaypipes, sdague : around ? | 20:02 |
| jeblair | yep | 20:02 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:02 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:02 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:03 |
| ttx | alright, this is quorum | 20:03 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 27 20:03:22 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:03 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:03 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:03 |
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| ttx | Note that I added Doug's recent thread to the agenda today, since it's very much related to the proposed changes on Project structure reform | 20:03 |
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| ttx | hmm, we don't seem to have haypo around | 20:04 |
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| ttx | I guess we can still discuss the issue, I'll play devil's advocate | 20:04 |
| ttx | #topic asyncio: replace eventlet with trollius | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "asyncio: replace eventlet with trollius (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:04 | |
| ttx | So this topic was raised by haypo at sdague's request | 20:04 |
| ttx | (both of which are not present :) | 20:05 |
| ttx | or is it both of whom? Damn English language | 20:05 |
| annegent_ | wait, who's haypo? | 20:05 |
| russellb | if neither are here, doesn't seem urgent to discuss | 20:05 |
| annegent_ | heh | 20:05 |
| ttx | that would be Victor Stinner | 20:05 |
| annegent_ | ok | 20:05 |
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| ttx | russellb: ok, let's table it until meeting end | 20:05 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 20:05 |
| ttx | #undo | 20:05 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x34a21d0> | 20:05 |
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| ttx | #topic Project structure reform | 20:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Project structure reform (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:05 | |
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| ttx | * Is the governance repository the long-term place for the project tags (http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-January/055151.html) | 20:06 |
| ttx | dhellmann raised this thread just yesterday, but since it objects somehow to the proposed changes, I think it's worth discussing it first | 20:06 |
| ttx | It primarily objects to using the openstack/governance repository as the home for the project tags | 20:06 |
| ttx | While I still strongly support tags as a way to clearly describe code repositories, but I tend to agree that this all could live in a separate repository | 20:06 |
| ttx | s/but// | 20:06 |
| mordred | I'm with dhellmann ... try as I might, I cannot actually find a concrete example of a tag that I think provides useful information | 20:06 |
| annegent_ | I did talk to dhellmann yesterday some (in case you were wondering why I hadn't replied on a thread that directly mentioned docs) | 20:07 |
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| mordred | that isn't already information that exists either elsewhere or is purely an opinion | 20:07 |
| annegent_ | I would love to do the data mining on current docs to see if that would be meaningful to devs/ops/users. | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | I have no strong opinion on whether tags are useful. I guess I'm +0 on having them? But none of the semi-useful ones I have seen so far are things that need us to vote on as a governing body. | 20:07 |
| vishy | I think subjective tags have value | 20:07 |
| ttx | I think reference information about projects has value | 20:07 |
| annegent_ | well "I" meaning, if I had time | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | vishy: example? | 20:07 |
| vishy | and there will most definitely be subjective tags for the board at least | 20:07 |
| vishy | "core" | 20:07 |
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| ttx | "compute-base" | 20:07 |
| mordred | vishy: I think subjective tags have value in general, but I can't come up with a concrete example of a tag that has value | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yeah, I'm not sure it needs to be "tags" is all I'm saying | 20:07 |
| ttx | "coordinated-release" | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | vishy: core won't be a tag, though, right? | 20:08 |
| zaneb | I want tags to help project teams know what is important for them to work on (and to whom it is important) | 20:08 |
| vishy | i believe it will be represented witha tag | 20:08 |
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| mordred | core is a meaningless concept | 20:08 |
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| vishy | clearly it will be voted on by the board so the process is different | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | "compute-base" can be discovered by looking at the dependency lists for projects | 20:08 |
| zaneb | 1000 little objective tags just says that everything is important to somebody | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | "coordinated-release" can be determined by looking at the release schedule | 20:08 |
| ttx | mordred: if none are useful, then we won't add any. But I already know of 4 that I want to have and are useful | 20:08 |
| zaneb | there's no useful information there | 20:08 |
| mordred | ttx: useful to who? | 20:08 |
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| dhellmann | neither of those examples requires the governing body of the openstack developer community to approve them if we're giving projects the ability to define their own dependencies and release schedules | 20:09 |
| vishy | but aren’t we as the tc comittee responsible for providing some guidance to the community? | 20:09 |
| ttx | dhellmann: we don't invent any new information with the tags, we just surface that information for our users | 20:09 |
| ttx | think of it as reference metadata | 20:09 |
| annegent_ | I think that the current way you figure out what to run in production is quite word-of-mouth | 20:09 |
| mordred | ttx: right. but we don't need to vote as the TC on reference metadata | 20:09 |
| ttx | mordred: all our users ? | 20:09 |
| jeblair | vishy: what kind of guidance should we provide via tags? | 20:09 |
| annegent_ | so a reference would be valuable | 20:09 |
| vishy | as an operator I would generally like to know what the tc thinks of a given project | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | ttx: it's fine to have them, but I don't think we need to vote on them as a governing body | 20:09 |
| ttx | mordred: that I would agree to | 20:09 |
| mordred | vishy: we never have and probably never will express that opinion | 20:09 |
| ttx | and I said as much to dhellmann on the thread | 20:09 |
| mordred | vishy: if we WERE going to do that, I'd be with you | 20:09 |
| vishy | imordred yes we have | 20:09 |
| vishy | we called it “incubated” and “integrated” before | 20:10 |
| annegent_ | we have mordred from a historical perspective | 20:10 |
| mordred | that was not our opinoin of the project | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | vishy: right, but now we're explicitly doing away with those things | 20:10 |
| ttx | mordred: I'm not sure we'll come up with a tag that needs to be solely decided by the TC, if that's your point | 20:10 |
| mordred | that was our determination that a project met a process | 20:10 |
| ttx | We might be actually agreeing | 20:10 |
| mordred | our users, it turns out, don't care about that | 20:10 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: yes, that is my point | 20:10 |
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| russellb | integrated has been about more than process | 20:10 |
| david-lyle | you are walking to toward a very tangled web, when there are no qualifications around which pieces work with which, which is what happens if you leave it up to individual projects | 20:10 |
| vishy | dhellmann: we are doing away with those specific tags | 20:10 |
| russellb | we have guideless far more extensive than just process | 20:10 |
| ttx | dhellmann: the proposal sayd: tags can be delegated to another group for maintenance | 20:11 |
| vishy | but to say that we don’t ever need them seems a bit short sighted | 20:11 |
| ttx | dhellmann: this may end up being all of them | 20:11 |
| annegent_ | now we want tags or some sort of indicator to enable more tight integration and specific use cases rather than "run the world" | 20:11 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I'm pretty sure it will be "most of them" | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | ttx: that's fine. I still think we could "surface" this information by just writing down some product documentation somewhere. | 20:11 |
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| zaneb | dhellmann: the problem with before was that we couldn't communicate different things to different audiences. The fact that we were communicating was not bad in itself | 20:11 |
| jeblair | mordred: to be fair, i believe that in the past we have considered desirability of including a project in openstack when incubating or integrating it. but i believe that many of us think that is no longer a good idea | 20:11 |
| jaypipes | jeblair: ++ | 20:12 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I think there is value in presenting that reference information in some project browsing website. Have it live in some YAML file somewhere helps that website to exist | 20:12 |
| mordred | jeblair: sure. but the one that has been explicitly requested "is this ready for me to run" is one that we actually don't know the answer to until people decide to run it | 20:12 |
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| jeblair | mordred: fully agreed there | 20:12 |
| ttx | I don't think we should expect people to find out that reference information on their own | 20:12 |
| mordred | that's the only one that I think isn't just procedural or a collection of already existing data from the docs | 20:12 |
| ttx | that's what we currently do and it fails | 20:13 |
| david-lyle | for projects that build on other projects, heat, horizon, tripleO and ever expanding eco-system means limitations on how much how quickly we can support | 20:13 |
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| annegent_ | ttx: +1 | 20:13 |
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| ttx | So in summary, I totally agree that the TC shoud not be the body deciding all the tags | 20:13 |
| ttx | I even agree that the TC should not decide most of the tags | 20:13 |
| ttx | but I still think tags have value | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | if tags had not come up in the context of the big tent discussion, would we have started doing that ourselves? or would we have, for example, asked the new product management group to help us with product documentation? | 20:14 |
| ttx | $and it's our responsibility to provide the framework to handle them | 20:14 |
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| vishy | I also agree that we shouldn’t be responsible for all tags | 20:14 |
| vishy | objective ones can be verified independently | 20:14 |
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| annegent_ | we can enable tags as self-service | 20:14 |
| ttx | dhellmann: we tried to provide that info in the past, mostly through wiki landing pages | 20:14 |
| vishy | but I’m not willing to state that we will never want some kind of subjective tagging | 20:15 |
| mordred | vishy: I agree with that | 20:15 |
| ttx | tags are just a way to express that project metadata | 20:15 |
| vishy | and i don’t think people should just be able to throw in arbitrary tags as they see fit | 20:15 |
| jeblair | ttx: i'm willing to give them a shot and not disrupt the process we are on, but i also think dhellmann makes a good point that they may simply prove to be unecessary. | 20:15 |
| mordred | vishy: I think I'm just trying to say that I, so far, haven't heard any tag suggestions that I personally think have any value | 20:15 |
| vishy | they need some kind of review process | 20:15 |
| mordred | vishy: but I'm very open to being wrong :) | 20:15 |
| jeblair | i'm certainly no longer willing to say tags are the answer to every question that comes up wrt the big tent :) | 20:15 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:15 |
| vishy | mordred: I don’t have any to propose currently for sure | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | vishy: if we have facts that we want to declare about projects, why does *this group* need to vote on whether they are true? | 20:16 |
| * jaypipes not a fan of subjective tags, but recognize that some audiences seem to want them | 20:16 | |
| * mordred agrees 100% with vishy then | 20:16 | |
| annegent_ | I think subjective tags are better than "so and so said this" :) | 20:16 |
| * mordred tags jaypipes as friendly | 20:16 | |
| markmcclain | ++ | 20:16 |
| ttx | jeblair: I think surfacing reference info has value. I agree that most of that inbfo already exists somewhere | 20:16 |
| ttx | and that in most cases our group is not the best suited to update that info | 20:17 |
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| mikal | Oh, apparently I am here | 20:17 |
| ttx | But let me take a step back | 20:17 |
| annegent_ | mikal: welcome | 20:17 |
| * sdague as well | 20:17 | |
| ttx | tags will also be used to answer some questions as the TC and those tags will be directly handled by us | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | hmm, can you give an example? | 20:18 |
| ttx | the (new) bylaws require that we provide subsets of projects that may be used in trademark license programs | 20:18 |
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| ttx | (a "TC approved release") | 20:18 |
| ttx | the way I thought we would answer that question is through a tag | 20:18 |
| ttx | think "OpenStack Storage powered product" | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | do we need different sets of projects, or just a list of "put trademarks on these"? | 20:19 |
| ttx | no no | 20:19 |
| ttx | we need different subsets, which we allow the board to take a subset of for specific trademark programs | 20:19 |
| ttx | sorry can't type faster :) | 20:20 |
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| ttx | so superset is "all OpenSTack projects" | 20:20 |
| * dhellmann imagines ttx juggling a glass of wine, a pastry, and a keyboard | 20:20 | |
| mordred | and cheese | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | so they want us to suggest which projects might go into which categories? | 20:20 |
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| russellb | right | 20:20 |
| ttx | Board has new trademark program, call it "OpenStack inspired dream" | 20:20 |
| ttx | we define a subset of projects that may be used to that effect | 20:20 |
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| ttx | and board picks from /that subset/ to establish the trademark program | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | it seems like it ought to be enough to say "this one should be a candidate for trademarks" and let the board decide which go in which programs | 20:21 |
| russellb | we'll be working on a process for this soon | 20:21 |
| ttx | any or all of the subset we defined | 20:21 |
| russellb | which might help clarify things | 20:21 |
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| ttx | so I was planning to use TC-controlled tag for that, that would be an example of one tag direclty handled by tc | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | if a project ever fit into more than one category, would we ever say "use the trademark in category A but not B"? | 20:21 |
| ttx | I agree we could do it outside of the tag framework | 20:21 |
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| *** sendak.freenode.net changes topic to "Project structure reform (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:44 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o openstack | 20:44 | |
| ttx | #topic Review openstack-specs approval rules | 20:44 |
| ttx | Two weeks ago we (well, mikal) fast-approved the log guidelines cross-project spec | 20:44 |
| ttx | dhellmann raised that we should have been using "normal TC voting procedures" for that repo | 20:44 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Review openstack-specs approval rules (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:44 | |
| ttx | The original decision on this repo was that any TC member has R+2/W+1 on that repository and could basically tally the votes and rubberstamp consensus | 20:44 |
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| ttx | I'm fine with switching this to normal voting rules (7 YES, or at least 5 YES and more YES than NO) | 20:44 |
| ttx | But then I'm not sure how we can express that in Gerrit without removing everyone's ability to -1 | 20:45 |
| ttx | Basically, how do TC members say "NO" ? -2 is a bit of a veto, not a NO. | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | jeblair was going to investigate gerrit config options, right? | 20:45 |
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| jeblair | dhellmann: yes, and i failed due to flying around to conferences and meetings too much :( i am sorry. | 20:46 |
| ttx | jeblair: should we table this until you get a chance to investigate that ? | 20:46 |
| sdague | so, honestly, I'm not sure why normal rules are bad. I can get behind stripping +A back to ttx if that's what we want, but I kind of think -2 veto is a feature here | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: np | 20:46 |
| ttx | sdague: so you don't want classic TC approval rules | 20:46 |
| sdague | because, really, if a TC member feels that strongly against it, that should stop this | 20:46 |
| ttx | you want a tweaked version with veto possibility | 20:46 |
| ttx | I'm fine with that | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | sdague: my point was I think we want more than two +2 votes before approval | 20:46 |
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| ttx | it's just NOT normal voting rules, that's something else we need to define | 20:47 |
| ttx | Could be at least 7 +2, no -2 | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | I'm less concerned with vetos, I guess. | 20:47 |
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| ttx | that would be easily impletable | 20:47 |
| ttx | implement-able | 20:48 |
| jeblair | if we can come up with requirements like "tc votes visible, tc can/can not veto" etc | 20:48 |
| jeblair | that would help | 20:48 |
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| jeblair | we do have more options in gerrit than last time we looked at something like this | 20:48 |
| ttx | dhellmann: would "at least 7 +2, no -2" work for you ? | 20:48 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: it sounds like we're circling around the rules we have now, but requiring more +2 before the workflow+1 is enabled | 20:48 |
| ttx | i.e. 7 approvals, no veto | 20:48 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yeah, that sounds good | 20:48 |
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| dhellmann | I thought that's what we were operating with, just doing it by consensus rather than having the tool configured that way | 20:49 |
| ttx | the difference with "normal voting rules" is that a single -2 can block it, but then like sdague said, it's probably a goiod thing here | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I'm willing to go with that | 20:49 |
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| russellb | wfm, too | 20:49 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:49 |
| * dhellmann wonders if anything we do is actually "normal" | 20:49 | |
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| sdague | yeh, I'm fine with that | 20:49 |
| ttx | dhellmann: normal as in "carved in stone in the TC charter" | 20:49 |
| jeblair | i'm pretty sure we can do that either way (veto or not veto), so decide based on what we want, not what our current rules are set up for | 20:49 |
| ttx | #agreed switch openstack-specs approval rules to "at least 7 +2, no -2" | 20:50 |
| * jeblair is puzzled | 20:50 | |
| ttx | jeblair: we'll probably want to restrict Workflow+1 to tc-chair | 20:50 |
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| jeblair | i'm not sure how a tc member is expected to express dissent | 20:51 |
| ttx | -1 ? | 20:51 |
| sdague | jeblair: -1 | 20:51 |
| jeblair | and we are not concerned that is indistingushable from any other -1? | 20:51 |
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| jeblair | and are tc members permitted to -2? | 20:52 |
| sdague | I'm not, we can read the votes | 20:52 |
| ttx | well, since you need 7 YES for approval, not voting is pretty much the same as -1 | 20:52 |
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| sdague | jeblair: yes | 20:52 |
| ttx | jeblair: yes, to express veto | 20:52 |
| jeblair | and we have no desire to make the tc votes visible as such? | 20:52 |
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| jeblair | and we _want_ the tc veto, that's not just a compromise based on current configuration? | 20:53 |
| ttx | jeblair: that is how I understand it | 20:53 |
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| jeblair | because i'm pretty sure we can set it up so that tc votes are distinguished from other votes and would not act as a veto | 20:53 |
| sdague | I personally think the TC veto is important | 20:53 |
| ttx | sdague said: "I kind of think -2 veto is a feature here" | 20:53 |
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| dhellmann | jeblair: https://review.openstack.org/150581 | 20:54 |
| sdague | I don't think that approving a spec over the strong objection of a TC member is a thing we want to do | 20:54 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 20:54 |
| sdague | that means we failed somewhere else | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | sdague: +1 | 20:54 |
| jeblair | sdague: i agree it means we failed, i do not agree that we should enable tc members to veto | 20:54 |
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| ttx | if we can't agree between us, how do we expect all PTLs to fall in line with the spec | 20:54 |
| mordred | yah - but we can make the category have -3 as a low bounds, still let TC members vote -2 to have it not be binding | 20:54 |
| jeblair | we don't have a veto anywhere else | 20:54 |
| jeblair | i don't know why we're adding it here | 20:54 |
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| jeblair | i would veto this suggestion if i could | 20:54 |
| mordred | and I agree with jeblair that I think veto is not actually desired | 20:54 |
| jeblair | but i can not | 20:54 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 20:55 |
| sdague | all the specs teams have vetos on it | 20:55 |
| ttx | hah | 20:55 |
| ttx | still time to | 20:55 |
| ttx | #undo | 20:55 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Agreed object at 0x2d1f510> | 20:55 |
| ttx | since we are not agreeing | 20:55 |
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| mordred | this is the TC - not a spec vote - we don't have a veto concept here | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | but these *are* specs | 20:55 |
| sdague | but it's a specs repo | 20:55 |
| jeblair | and when things get contentious, i want us to be able to navigate a way out of it | 20:55 |
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| mordred | sdague: yes - but we don't approve things with any 2 +2's - we do it by majority vote | 20:56 |
| sdague | yes, and running over members I don't think is that | 20:56 |
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| mordred | we can still have dissenting votes and often do have at least one or two | 20:56 |
| sdague | mordred: that's a definition of the governance repo based on it replacing in meeting votes | 20:56 |
| mordred | and I _do_ think it's important to capture and display that TC member dissented | 20:56 |
| ttx | hmm, looks like we can push this to a thread and clarify the requirements | 20:56 |
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| ttx | I'd like to cover one more thing in this meeting | 20:57 |
| mordred | ttx: ++ | 20:57 |
| ttx | #action ttx to raise thread to continue discussion on openstack-specs approval | 20:57 |
| mordred | just saying - there are more options available to us than we provide to other repos | 20:57 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:57 | |
| ttx | I'd like to start the L naming poll this week | 20:57 |
| russellb | yay | 20:57 |
| ttx | We've been trying with Anita to add first nation names (lilwat or lilooet) to the mix, but for that we need explicit permission from the tribe | 20:57 |
| ttx | And we haven't received an answer yet | 20:57 |
| ttx | Do you think we can wait until next week ? Or do we need the name now ? | 20:57 |
| anteaya | I've emailed no response | 20:57 |
| anteaya | first nations work on their own concept of time | 20:58 |
| ttx | we can't wait forever, people started to complain | 20:58 |
| anteaya | I don't haev much hope waiting another week will net any useful results | 20:58 |
| ttx | Current set is Lizard, London, Liberty, Love | 20:58 |
| anteaya | they haven't acknowledged my email | 20:58 |
| ttx | I'd like to quickcheck that we have at least one TC member supporting every of those names, since the final short list is supposedly our pick | 20:58 |
| jeblair | if the cross-project specs is a function of the tc, it should operate in the same way as the rest of the tc, otherwise i think it loses legitimacy | 20:58 |
| ttx | no need to put in the poll a name nobody would rather not have. I know London and Lizard have supporters, what about Love and Liberty ? I know some people hate those. | 20:58 |
| jeblair | (sorry, i typed most of that before the topic change) | 20:59 |
| * dhellmann plans to vote London just to be confusing | 20:59 | |
| * ttx supports Lizard | 20:59 | |
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| vishy | i like all the options | 20:59 |
| ttx | anyone up to support Love or Liberty | 20:59 |
| * russellb supports Love | 20:59 | |
| * anteaya hates Liberty as it is american not canadian | 20:59 | |
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| dhellmann | anteaya: ? | 20:59 |
| anteaya | liberty is american | 20:59 |
| fungi | anteaya: it only seems american. we don't _actually_ have any either | 20:59 |
| mordred | I'm not thrilled with the list, nor that it's pre-culled | 20:59 |
| ttx | vishy: do you like all the options enough to vouch for Liberty ? | 21:00 |
| * jeblair plans on calling it lemming anyway | 21:00 | |
| anteaya | fungi: heh | 21:00 |
| vishy | fungi: wp, wp | 21:00 |
| * dhellmann follows jeblair | 21:00 | |
| vishy | sure | 21:00 |
| ttx | mordred: we plan to address that, I talked with jogo on clarifying the process | 21:00 |
| vishy | i will vouch for liberty | 21:00 |
| ttx | OK then | 21:00 |
| ttx | And shall we wait another week ? | 21:00 |
| mordred | ttx: I would like to not clarify the process as much as I would like this to not be a marketing exercise | 21:00 |
| mordred | and instead a function of our technical community | 21:00 |
| mordred | that is, as it should be, fun | 21:00 |
| vishy | is there any reason we can’t do a two phase poll with all options? | 21:01 |
| vishy | is the issue trademark conflicts? | 21:01 |
| ttx | We need to close the meeting ? Wait another week ? | 21:01 |
| ttx | vishy: yes | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yeah, let's wait | 21:01 |
| ttx | OK | 21:01 |
| ttx | thx | 21:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| * jogo wants Lizard | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 27 21:01:41 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-01-27-20.03.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-01-27-20.03.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-01-27-20.03.log.html | 21:01 |
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| bknudson | go with cloud formations -- lenticular | 21:02 |
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| ttx | courtesy PTL ping: dhellmann, morganfainberg, notmyname, eglynn, nikhil_k, thingee, asalkeld, david-lyle, mestery, SlickNik, SergeyLukjanov, mikal: around ? | 21:02 |
| fungi | probably already taken by someone's cloud product | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:02 |
| mestery | o/ | 21:02 |
| russellb | bknudson: heh, there are (self imposed) rules around what is a valid candidate | 21:02 |
| david-lyle | o/ | 21:02 |
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| notmyname | hello | 21:02 |
| asalkeld | o/ | 21:02 |
| morganfainberg | o/ | 21:02 |
| sigmavirus24 | o/ | 21:02 |
| russellb | bknudson: find a place called that in BC, Canada :) | 21:02 |
| * ttx longs the blessed time where we would decide the name on a whiteboard at the end of the design summit | 21:03 | |
| ttx | (Cactus) | 21:03 |
| eglynn | o/ | 21:03 |
| ttx | #startmeeting crossproject | 21:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 27 21:03:47 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'crossproject' | 21:03 |
| morganfainberg | make people submit ideas at the summit, tally things up at the end. | 21:03 |
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| morganfainberg | :P | 21:03 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 21:03 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting | 21:04 |
| ttx | sigmavirus24: around? | 21:04 |
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| ttx | oh I see you above | 21:04 |
| sigmavirus24 | I am | 21:04 |
| ttx | #topic Cross-project DevRef akin to Nova's (@sigmavirus24) | 21:04 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Cross-project DevRef akin to Nova's (@sigmavirus24) (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:04 | |
| ttx | #link http://docs.openstack.org/developer/nova/devref/development.environment.html | 21:04 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-January/054837.html | 21:04 |
| sigmavirus24 | So we discussed this on the mailing list a bit already (thank you ttx) | 21:05 |
| ttx | sigmavirus24: I'll let you introduce the topic | 21:05 |
| sigmavirus24 | The basic idea is to have a cross-project reference of the basic requirements to begin developing with/on any of the projects | 21:05 |
| sigmavirus24 | Then have a way for each project to list additional dependencies and system setup | 21:05 |
| lifeless | sdague: haypo was working on it | 21:05 |
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| sigmavirus24 | At this point, what we could use are people willing to help with each project's (sub?)reference and to get the base document started. Also guidance as to where this should live | 21:06 |
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| asalkeld | sigmavirus24, openstack-manual ? | 21:07 |
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| mestery | asalkeld: ++, that's a good spot. | 21:07 |
| eglynn | so is the idea that we list out the super-set of all setup required to develop on *any* project? | 21:07 |
| sigmavirus24 | eglynn: right. Most projects have common system dependencies | 21:07 |
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| eglynn | sigmavirus24: sounds reasonable | 21:08 |
| asalkeld | and i'd assume we would have some hooks so we could have some differences in-tree? | 21:08 |
| annegent_ | I think it could live in openstack-manuals but the audience is contrib devs so openstack-manuals isn't for that group. I'd say start a new repo | 21:08 |
| sigmavirus24 | annegent_: that's what I thought | 21:08 |
| dhellmann | anteaya: where is the infra-manual being published? | 21:08 |
| annegent_ | like the infra-manual is a separate repo | 21:08 |
| sigmavirus24 | asalkeld: I think the idea would be to have some sub-sections or separate pages for each individual project | 21:08 |
| annegent_ | dhellmann: docs.openstack.org/infra-manual | 21:08 |
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| anteaya | docs.openstack.org/infra/manual | 21:09 |
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| dhellmann | annegent_: thanks | 21:09 |
| annegent_ | sorry http://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/ | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | anteaya: thanks :-) | 21:09 |
| annegent_ | heh | 21:09 |
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| anteaya | :) | 21:09 |
| asalkeld | sigmavirus24, i'd rather you link to project pages | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | there is a developer guide in the infra manual: http://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/developers.html | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | let's add to that | 21:09 |
| annegent_ | sigmavirus24: figure out how to include content from separate repos while you're at it :) | 21:09 |
| asalkeld | central docs are more work to add to | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | and let's not put project-specific stuff in the projects because as a new dev OMG that's a pain to flip back and forth | 21:09 |
| sigmavirus24 | annegent_: hm. I have an instinct on how to do that but have never tested it =P | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | and really, if our instructions aren't "run devstack once" then meh | 21:10 |
| annegent_ | sigmavirus24: try it, you'll like it, then show me how | 21:10 |
| asalkeld | we already have docs: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/heat/getting_started/index.html | 21:10 |
| sigmavirus24 | dhellmann: yeah that was a worry of mine | 21:10 |
| asalkeld | just link to those (and we remove common stuff) | 21:10 |
| annegent_ | dhellmann: it's really about concepts and then troubleshooting | 21:10 |
| eglynn | would we need a volunteer per-project-per-distro to validate the setup? | 21:10 |
| eglynn | (e.g. one who normally develops ceilo on fedora20, another for ceilo/trusty etc.) | 21:10 |
| sigmavirus24 | eglynn: yeah that's the part that Nova's DevRef doesn't handle | 21:11 |
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| eglynn | k | 21:11 |
| sigmavirus24 | And that may be harder to maintain | 21:11 |
| dhellmann | annegent_: ok, but if we have instructions for doing something and a tool that does it, they're going to diverge pretty quickly | 21:11 |
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| annegent_ | dhellmann: I think we agree :) | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | annegent_: huzzah! :-) | 21:12 |
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| annegent_ | per distro is not easy, take it from the install guide experience | 21:12 |
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| sigmavirus24 | I've heard stories of the per-distro problems in the install guide | 21:13 |
| annegent_ | sigmavirus24: it ain't easy | 21:13 |
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| sigmavirus24 | dhellmann: but there's also the difference of: "install these dependencies system wide and then get going" and "run devstack for 40 minutes then get started" | 21:13 |
| sigmavirus24 | If we're going to tell people to use devstack to set up their systems for development, we should probably make it easier to install the system deps without running ./stack.sh | 21:14 |
| dhellmann | sigmavirus24: I suppose. | 21:14 |
| morganfainberg | maybe the right answer is to keep the basic starter docs in devstack purview. | 21:14 |
| ttx | I fail to feel disturbance in the Force. Does that mean there is mostly consensus on this topic and we should spend our time on more conflictual issues ? | 21:14 |
| fungi | maybe that's where the docker-oriented dev/devstack environments have a leg up. start this in a container, then hack | 21:14 |
| morganfainberg | since devstack needs to know how to do all of that anyway | 21:14 |
| dhellmann | sigmavirus24: that's a good idea, maybe a separate script in the devstack repo? | 21:14 |
| sigmavirus24 | dhellmann: yeah | 21:14 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, ++ | 21:14 |
| sigmavirus24 | I'm all for that | 21:14 |
| notmyname | what if, instead of one (base) document that describes how to set up a dev environment, we instead had one template for how these look and then leave them to the individual projects? | 21:14 |
| * dhellmann pictures only slightly less confusion than we have now | 21:15 | |
| eglynn | if not explicitly per-distro, then at least e.g. "yum install libffi-devel (or the equivalent package for your distro)"? | 21:15 |
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| asalkeld | imho if this is docs on how to run devstack, the docs should just be in devstack | 21:16 |
| annegent_ | I wish reed were around to weigh in. He fields all kinds of questions about devstack | 21:16 |
| fungi | not long ago i looked at the degree to which contributing.md et cetera diverged across our projects. basically they mostly fork from whatever the satte is in the cookiecutter repo and then head off in their own individual directions | 21:16 |
| dhellmann | most of these instructions shouldn't be different between the projects, right? "Here's how to find the list of packages to install" or "Here's the tool to install the packages" | 21:16 |
| dhellmann | "here's how to run tests" | 21:16 |
| annegent_ | but it's not just devstack, it's a dev environment, building docs, and running tests. | 21:16 |
| dhellmann | "here's how to run the debugger" | 21:16 |
| eglynn | this is not just devstack, amiright? ... also folks who want to just run "tox -epy27" to run units | 21:16 |
| dhellmann | that should all work the same, with only the service names changing | 21:16 |
| morganfainberg | devstack feels like the right place for something like this instead of trying to keep data in now (how many projects?) in sync or even adding just 1 more place, devstack and wherever it is now and then this new place | 21:17 |
| annegent_ | heh. you type faster | 21:17 |
| sigmavirus24 | eglynn: right | 21:17 |
| morganfainberg | it seems like the data will never be in sync. | 21:17 |
| sigmavirus24 | == morganfainberg | 21:17 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: on most projects, you need system packages for the python requirements to install | 21:17 |
| sigmavirus24 | libmysql++, libssl, etc. are all necesary | 21:17 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: yep, exactly | 21:17 |
| fungi | and the names of those packages differ across distro families and releases | 21:17 |
| sigmavirus24 | or required to different degrees | 21:17 |
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| eglynn | fungi: precisely my thought above | 21:18 |
| fungi | name and count of packages in some cases | 21:18 |
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| dhellmann | eglynn, fungi : and so it is simpler to tell people to use a tool to install them than to write directions for doing it all differently | 21:18 |
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| fungi | (e.g. some distros split out packages which others keep more monolithic) | 21:18 |
| dhellmann | currently, the best tool is devstack, but I do like the idea of splitting that feature out | 21:18 |
| fungi | dhellmann: i have no idea which is easier honestly. neither is trivial | 21:18 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: yep, great if someone is willing to maintain such a tool | 21:18 |
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| eglynn | (standing alone from devstack) | 21:18 |
| morganfainberg | if devstack used that tool to install | 21:18 |
| dhellmann | morganfainberg: right | 21:19 |
| morganfainberg | i think it would make it required to keep up to date | 21:19 |
| asalkeld | https://github.com/openstack-dev/devstack/tree/master/files ? | 21:19 |
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| morganfainberg | rather than "we hope it stays in sync" | 21:19 |
| dhellmann | asalkeld: right | 21:19 |
| sigmavirus24 | morganfainberg: I think that was that was what I imagined for the tool | 21:19 |
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| fungi | lifeless started on his bindep project a couple years back now, to try to provide a structured mechanism for declaring these sorts of dependencies across distros | 21:19 |
| sigmavirus24 | I should have verbalized that though :) | 21:19 |
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| fungi | might be a good place to try to incorporate that sort of logic | 21:19 |
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| asalkeld | so doesn't devstack automatically installing this stuff? | 21:20 |
| dhellmann | asalkeld: it does, but the request was for a tool that doesn't do all of the other things devstack does | 21:20 |
| asalkeld | why are we documenting it as a manual step? | 21:20 |
| ttx | the anvil stuff from harlowja had a few ways to encode deps in a distro-agnostic way too | 21:20 |
| fungi | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/stackforge/bindep | 21:20 |
| sigmavirus24 | yes. splitting that part out of devstack so you don't have to run ./stack.sh is what I imagine will be the best way of moving this forward | 21:20 |
| dhellmann | asalkeld: my point exactly :-) | 21:21 |
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| asalkeld | really? odd | 21:21 |
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| ttx | Hmm, obviously this requires more discussion, but we can't dedicate all the meeting to that | 21:21 |
| sigmavirus24 | mriedem was the one to suggest this first in glance so this is why it's come up | 21:21 |
| sigmavirus24 | right. | 21:21 |
| harlowja | https://github.com/stackforge/anvil/blob/master/conf/distros/redhat.yaml if people care :-P | 21:21 |
| sigmavirus24 | ttx: feel free to move on. Maybe we'll get more responses on the ML now =P | 21:21 |
| ttx | How about someone picks up the thread and continues the discussion there | 21:21 |
| dtroyer_zz | fwiw. tools/install_prereqs.sh exists in devstack to do a lot of the system deps | 21:21 |
| ttx | sigmavirus24: triggering interest in ML thread is one of the goals of this meeting indeed | 21:22 |
| ttx | OK, let's move on | 21:22 |
| dhellmann | dtroyer_zz: cool | 21:22 |
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| ttx | Please followup on the thread if you care | 21:22 |
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| ttx | #topic Avoiding private symbols in Oslo libraries (dhellmann) | 21:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Avoiding private symbols in Oslo libraries (dhellmann) (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:22 | |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-January/054810.html | 21:22 |
| ttx | dhellmann: around? | 21:22 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/150118/ | 21:22 |
| ttx | This feels more and more like Lightning Talks | 21:23 |
| dhellmann | I wanted to raise this mostly to make sure you had all seen the thread. | 21:23 |
| bknudson | we've all done it -- used private symbols | 21:23 |
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| dhellmann | After we're done with the namespace package moves, we're not going to hold up releases of oslo libs because of unit test breakages in other projects. | 21:23 |
| bknudson | sometimes because they were that way from oslo-incubator days | 21:23 |
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| asalkeld | dhellmann, that sounds fine | 21:24 |
| dhellmann | We'll work with everyone to add fixtures and other APIs as needed as we continue graduations, but for existing stuff we're going to keep moving ahead with cleanups and fixes. | 21:24 |
| ttx | dhellmann: that sounds fair | 21:24 |
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| dhellmann | That's all I had, unless anyone has questions about it. | 21:25 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: not going to hold up releases of oslo libs because of unit test breakages in other projects, where those breakages are caused by usage of oslo private symbols? | 21:25 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: yes, that's right | 21:26 |
| eglynn | (i.e. as opposed to being caused by say an API contract change) | 21:26 |
| eglynn | coolness :) | 21:26 |
| ttx | other questions on that ? | 21:26 |
| notmyname | any migration plan? | 21:26 |
| dhellmann | notmyname: migration? | 21:26 |
| notmyname | just tell projects to stop and make them change? or is there a plan for supporting stuff currently in use by published libraries? | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | notmyname: symbols already clearly marked as private are off-limits. New symbols will be clearly marked. | 21:27 |
| notmyname | ok | 21:27 |
| ttx | ok, moving on | 21:27 |
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| ttx | #topic Discuss the importance of getting cross-project reviews of guidelines and how to best go about getting those reviews for the API Working Group (etoews) | 21:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss the importance of getting cross-project reviews of guidelines and how to best go about getting those reviews for the API Working Group (etoews) (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:28 | |
| bknudson | it's usually pretty easy to change the test to use public symbols instead. | 21:28 |
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| ttx | etoews: o/ | 21:28 |
| etoews | hi | 21:28 |
| etoews | in case anyone isn't familiar with our working group yet... | 21:28 |
| etoews | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/API_Working_Group | 21:28 |
| ttx | Example guidelines @ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145579/ | 21:28 |
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| etoews | ya. so that one turned out reasonably well so far. | 21:29 |
| asalkeld | etoews, is this what our cross project liaison should be doing? | 21:29 |
| etoews | right | 21:29 |
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| bknudson | looks like that one has a lot of reviews and from the right people. | 21:29 |
| etoews | the wg also needs to do a better job of reaching out to the CPLs | 21:29 |
| etoews | bknudson: for that one yes. | 21:30 |
| eglynn | is this voting scheme in force? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/131358/6/doc/source/process.rst | 21:30 |
| etoews | but then look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/141229/ | 21:30 |
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| eglynn | "Once the matter has been discussed there should be no more than 20% (of votes cast) -1 votes." | 21:30 |
| ttx | One question that comes to mind is should that type of guidelines be retrofitted into an openstack-specs, or do we need two repositories ? | 21:30 |
| etoews | eglynn: yep. that merged. http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/api-wg/process.html | 21:30 |
| etoews | ttx: i think one repo for the time being | 21:31 |
| dhellmann | ttx: using the specs repo feels fine | 21:31 |
| morganfainberg | i like the spec repo as a place for this | 21:32 |
| dhellmann | we're doing something similar with oslo policies: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/oslo-specs+branch:master+topic:policy,n,z | 21:32 |
| ttx | dhellmann: it's using the openstack/api-wg repo for now | 21:32 |
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| ttx | basically, this repo serves both to help draft the guidelines and get it out to be implemented | 21:32 |
| dhellmann | ttx: hmm, I hadn't noticed that | 21:33 |
| ttx | while we do some of the latter already in openstack-specs | 21:33 |
| * dhellmann doesn't like the new gerrit UI :-/ | 21:33 | |
| ttx | hence my question on the potential duplication | 21:33 |
| fungi | i lobbied to just use the openstack/specs repo for it originally, but was in the minority | 21:33 |
| eglynn | can we clarify where these guidelines lie on the spectrum ranging from "friendly advice" to "hard mandate"? | 21:33 |
| ttx | fungi: I still think the workgroup needs a place to hack and draft their docs | 21:33 |
| * eglynn fears that "friendly advice" tends to be respectfully ignored | 21:33 | |
| fungi | ttx: yep, that was a fair counterargument | 21:34 |
| dhellmann | I thought the api-wg repo was going to be for them to draft proposals, but they wouldn't be applied until they were approved in the specs repo. That feels like we're adding extra overhead, now that we have used the specs repo a bit | 21:34 |
| ttx | I'm just wondering if making them stay forever in api-wg doesn't limit the reach/audience needed for the second step | 21:34 |
| ttx | dhellmann: agreed, just checking if that's still the plan | 21:34 |
| etoews | eglynn: at this point they are guidelines, not hard mandate. | 21:34 |
| ttx | basically I saw the CLI sort thing and ignored the API sort thing | 21:34 |
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| etoews | hmmmm...sounds like the specs repo would give us more viz | 21:35 |
| ttx | etoews: do you plan to push them more as mandates ? In which case you would use the specs repo ? | 21:35 |
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| ttx | I guess if they stay "recommendations" or "guidelines" they could still live in a specific repo | 21:36 |
| etoews | so far the way most reviews have worked out is that everytime we use the word "must" in a guideline, someone comments to change it to "should" | 21:36 |
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| ttx | heh | 21:36 |
| ttx | rings a bell | 21:36 |
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| etoews | even if they were mandated, that "should" give people the wiggle room they want/need. | 21:37 |
| notmyname | s/should/may/ | 21:37 |
| etoews | it's basically the language of rfcs | 21:37 |
| etoews | i'm all for more visibility though. that's why i'm here. | 21:37 |
| eglynn | at one point there was a suggestion that the TC would add some weight to these "recommendations" by explicitly adding their imprimatur | 21:38 |
| ttx | OK, so we have two options for more viz | 21:38 |
| eglynn | ... is that still the plan? | 21:38 |
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| ttx | one is just to rpeach that CPLs and PTLs and everyone else should weigh in on api-wgh proposed changes | 21:38 |
| ttx | preach* | 21:38 |
| etoews | eglynn: see #5 of http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/api-wg/process.html | 21:38 |
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| ttx | two is to turn those at some point into API recommendations that would be proposed as openstack-specs | 21:39 |
| eglynn | etoews: a-ha, cool, thanks | 21:39 |
| ttx | (and use api-wg to draft the doc) | 21:39 |
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| notmyname | how in the world is that reasonable or scalable with a bit-tent openstack project? | 21:39 |
| notmyname | *big | 21:39 |
| etoews | ttx: those are the option i see | 21:39 |
| ttx | notmyname: api recommendations ? or openstack-specs ? | 21:40 |
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| ttx | etoews: any preference ? | 21:40 |
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| notmyname | ttx: the api recommendations along the should to must range. basically finding a One True API that works across all of these projects | 21:40 |
| etoews | i don't want to speak for the whole wg. | 21:40 |
| etoews | let me take this back to them. we have a meeting on thursday. | 21:41 |
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| ttx | etoews: maybe bring back the two options to them ? | 21:41 |
| ttx | ok | 21:41 |
| etoews | i'll update the cross-project meeting next week. | 21:41 |
| ttx | etoews: sounds good | 21:42 |
| ttx | notmyname: I don't think they are up to defining a "One True API", mostly about suggesting that the details like sorting are implemented in a coherent way | 21:42 |
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| etoews | ttx: +1 and consistent too | 21:42 |
| ttx | which sounds valuable, especially as we add more projects | 21:43 |
| ttx | ok, one or two more topics to cover | 21:43 |
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| ttx | moving on -- if more complaints about the APi WG goals, that should be raised as a specific thread I think | 21:43 |
| ttx | #topic Progress (or lack thereof) on providing default config files | 21:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Progress (or lack thereof) on providing default config files (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:44 | |
| ttx | in our Dec 16 meeting we discussed the best way to provide "default" config files for projects | 21:44 |
| ttx | There were lots of solutions proposed, but not real clear single roblem we were trying to solve | 21:44 |
| ttx | The outcome was to push the discussion to the operators ML to get a clearer sense of the problem we need to solve | 21:44 |
| fungi | yep, and i summarized the discussion on the ops ml | 21:44 |
| ttx | and/or start a cross-project spec | 21:44 |
| ttx | We also scheduled a status update before end of January, so here we are... | 21:44 |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2014-December/005742.html | 21:44 |
| ttx | fungi: do you have some summary to share ? | 21:44 |
| fungi | that thread sort of petered out without any solid direction | 21:44 |
| fungi | i also talked with fifieldt a little and his take was that from the operators he talks to, they wanted config files in git repos | 21:45 |
| fungi | full stop | 21:45 |
| ttx | would you say it failed to reach the required level of interest on that list ? | 21:45 |
| fifieldt | not at all :) | 21:45 |
| fungi | which someone in the ops community just started doing | 21:46 |
| ttx | or that the Christmas break made it drown ? | 21:46 |
| fifieldt | it's that the options as presented were ill formatted for the audience, ttx | 21:46 |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2015-January/005981.html | 21:46 |
| asalkeld | well we could go back to generating the config's - just not gating on the results? | 21:46 |
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| ttx | fifieldt: the effort is stalled again -- what's the best way to make progress there ? | 21:46 |
| fungi | right, i can grasp that we presented technical options to operators and the implication i guess is that they're non-technical creatures? | 21:46 |
| dhellmann | asalkeld: the options available to a deployment depend on the versions of libraries installed *at that deployment* and not just on the application | 21:47 |
| fifieldt | not technical vs non technical - just "don't care about implementation details" :) | 21:47 |
| asalkeld | dhellmann, we provide the global requriements | 21:47 |
| fungi | okay, so they don't care enough about how we solve it to tell us what specifically they need, but care enough to complain when we don't provide what they need? | 21:47 |
| dhellmann | asalkeld: with ranges of versions | 21:47 |
| asalkeld | doubt they really vary that much | 21:47 |
| morganfainberg | but the view was they want sample configs in git [regardless of how it gets there]? | 21:47 |
| asalkeld | seems like a slim arguemnent | 21:47 |
| fifieldt | * A git repository that has raw, sample configs in it for each project | 21:47 |
| fifieldt | that will be automagically updated | 21:47 |
| fifieldt | * Raw configs distributed in the tar files we make as part of the release | 21:47 |
| fifieldt | that's basically it | 21:48 |
| ttx | fifieldt: that's an OR or an AND ? | 21:48 |
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| fifieldt | and | 21:48 |
| ttx | (non technical question) | 21:48 |
| ttx | :) | 21:48 |
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| ttx | fungi: I haven't followed the thread, but is fifieldt's description something they clearly voiced ? | 21:49 |
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| dhellmann | fifieldt: why do they want these things in git? | 21:49 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, i think i see that is the general view. | 21:49 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, i'm skimming the thread archive now | 21:49 |
| fungi | ttx: the git repository idea wasn't really championed in that thread, but i get the impression that not all operators who have a vested interest are on that ml | 21:49 |
| ttx | fungi: is that a description of needs we can act on and propose a strawman solution for ? | 21:49 |
| fifieldt | dhellmann, its raw, easy to use from the filesystem, diffable, changes can be tracked | 21:50 |
| bknudson | I use the sample config file in git every few days. | 21:50 |
| fifieldt | so this is just my interpretation from talking with a ton of ops | 21:50 |
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| dhellmann | fifieldt: ok, tracking changes at least makes sense | 21:50 |
| fungi | ttx: i pointed out on the ml that the git repo solution is one that anyone could provide without necessarily needing us to solve that, and it seems that's happened already | 21:50 |
| fifieldt | indeed, and it seems to indicate that that method is an acceptable solution | 21:51 |
| fifieldt | so p[ulling that up so its visible could be a next step | 21:51 |
| ttx | fifieldt: would you mind reheating the thread by summarizing the needs like you just did ? | 21:51 |
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| ttx | Then we can discuss implementation on the other side | 21:51 |
| fifieldt | it's been on my todo list, ttx :) | 21:51 |
| ttx | ok, potential progress again! | 21:51 |
| fungi | so straw man proposal would be to let the operator community continue to scratch its itch with the git repo, and possibly still include sample configs in tarballs (though as jeblair pointed out that does complicate sdist creation) | 21:52 |
| ttx | fungi: we can discuss the feasibility of that part if we know that's what they want | 21:52 |
| fungi | agreed | 21:52 |
| fifieldt | I think there'd be a preference for the git repo thing to be produced by upstream | 21:52 |
| fifieldt | rather than in some random personal repo | 21:52 |
| fungi | it's a solution they can contribute though | 21:53 |
| ttx | so let's wait for fifieldt to come back to us with a clear need like he just outlined | 21:53 |
| fungi | since they've worked out the specifics | 21:53 |
| fifieldt | what do you need, ttx ? | 21:53 |
| fifieldt | just post those two bullet points to the list? | 21:53 |
| fungi | and we can just run it | 21:53 |
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| dhellmann | fungi: ++ | 21:53 |
| ttx | fifieldt: and ask if that would be a consensual solution | 21:53 |
| ttx | if we could provide a technical solution for that | 21:53 |
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| * fifieldt isn;'t sure why it has to be me writing this email, but ok :) | 21:53 | |
| ttx | fifieldt: well, you authored this brilliant summary | 21:54 |
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| ttx | so we blame you now | 21:54 |
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| ttx | time for one more quick thing | 21:55 |
| fifieldt | the things I get up to at 5am :) | 21:55 |
| ttx | #topic openstack-specs discussion | 21:55 |
| fungi | we've been trying to get some leadership from the operator community to push this to a conclusion so it doesn't fester | 21:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "openstack-specs discussion (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:55 | |
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| ttx | * CLI Sorting Argument Guidelines (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145544/) | 21:55 |
| ttx | This one has no clear opposition so far | 21:55 |
| ttx | Affected projects are Glance, Cinder, Ironic and Neutron. We have Cinder PTL +1 so far | 21:55 |
| ttx | Missing mestery approval, (nikhil_k and devananda +1ed an earlier version) | 21:55 |
| ttx | Once we have that (hopefully this week) I think we'll move to TC rubberstamping, unless there is a new objection raised | 21:55 |
| mestery | ttx: I'll re-examine that right now. | 21:56 |
| ttx | So if you care and haven't expressed your opinion yet, now is the time to do so | 21:56 |
| ttx | We'll discuss TRACE next meeting | 21:56 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion & announcements | 21:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion & announcements (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:56 | |
| ttx | We had 1:1 syncs today, one week before kilo-2 deadline | 21:56 |
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| ttx | Logs at: | 21:56 |
| ttx | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ptl_sync/2015/ptl_sync.2015-01-27-07.58.html | 21:56 |
| ttx | We also expect a Swift release (2.2.2) next week | 21:57 |
| ttx | Last meeting in the middle of the netspit I asked if anyone would be interested in chairing a future cross-project meeting. I'm fine rotating on that job :) | 21:57 |
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| ttx | Ping me if interested | 21:57 |
| fungi | i'll be pushing this week to switch projects which are successfully gating on python 3.3 to switch en-masse to 3.4 where possible, so keep an eye out for that (i'll announce on the dev ml too) | 21:57 |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 21:57 |
| adam_g | Just a friendly reminder, the stable/juno branches will freeze this thursday jan 29th in preparation for the 2014.2.2 next week. Please get any new backports up for review soon and ping zul if you have any post-freeze exceptions. | 21:57 |
| bknudson | naming suggestion: Lougheed | 21:57 |
| ttx | bknudson: a bit late, come back for M :) | 21:58 |
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| bknudson | what's the name? | 21:58 |
| ttx | poll to open next week | 21:58 |
| ttx | but trademark checks were run | 21:59 |
| ttx | still hoping we can add Lilwat to the mix (first nation name) | 21:59 |
| ttx | but probably won't get the approval we need from the tribe | 22:00 |
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| ttx | in time for the poll | 22:00 |
| ttx | and that closes this meeting | 22:00 |
| mestery | thanks ttx! | 22:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 27 22:00:21 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-01-27-21.03.html | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-01-27-21.03.txt | 22:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-01-27-21.03.log.html | 22:00 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone! | 22:00 |
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