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| trinaths | Hi all, Very Good Morning | 02:16 |
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| yamahata | hi | 05:00 |
| vishwanathj | hello | 05:00 |
| yamahata | #startmeeting servicevm-device-manager | 05:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 12 05:01:24 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yamahata. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 05:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 05:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)" | 05:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'servicevm_device_manager' | 05:01 |
| yamahata | Do we have bob? | 05:01 |
| yamahata | give him a minute | 05:01 |
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| yamahata | Hmm, Bob isn't here. Okay let's get started | 05:03 |
| yamahata | #topic Announcement | 05:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcement (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)" | 05:03 | |
| yamahata | #info l3_db refactoring patch was merged | 05:03 |
| yamahata | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/108728/ l3_db refactoring | 05:04 |
| natarajk | yamahata: good to know | 05:04 |
| yamahata | #info adding auto token to context is still under review. | 05:04 |
| yamahata | The feedback is good. I expect the merge soon | 05:04 |
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| yamahata | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/111756/ adding auth token to context | 05:05 |
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| yamahata | My progress is not much this week. I implemented a bit. The next mile stone is to implement guest agent for l3 and create guest image | 05:05 |
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| yamahata | that's it from me | 05:06 |
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| yamahata | anything else to announce? | 05:06 |
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| yamahata | #topic Open Discussion | 05:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)" | 05:07 | |
| yamahata | anything to discuss? | 05:07 |
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| yamahata | Now I have feeling that vyatta implementation can be ported as driver. | 05:08 |
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| yamahata | But I have still much to accomodate csr1kv case because it has many features. | 05:08 |
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| yamahata | plugging driver abstraction is the first thing. | 05:08 |
| natarajk | yamahata: i briefly took a look at the implementation last week | 05:09 |
| yamahata | Oh cool. | 05:09 |
| natarajk | yamahata: Looks like you have pre, post methods now | 05:09 |
| natarajk | like ML2 | 05:09 |
| yamahata | natarajk: yes. | 05:09 |
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| natarajk | yamahata: Will look into it in detail this week | 05:09 |
| yamahata | natarajk: at the moment it's still experimental. | 05:10 |
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| yamahata | natarajk: thanks. It is still subject to change. | 05:10 |
| natarajk | yamahata: Is pre method for db change and post method for device config ? | 05:10 |
| yamahata | The issues is, such design can accomodate csr1kv case. | 05:10 |
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| yamahata | natarajk: basically yes. | 05:11 |
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| yamahata | I think vyatta case, just post method will be implemented | 05:11 |
| natarajk | yamahata: Ok. | 05:11 |
| yamahata | I suppose for vyatta, the next issue is how to implement dnrm feature in tacker server somehow. | 05:12 |
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| yamahata | natarajk: It's my understanding. correct? | 05:12 |
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| natarajk | yamahata: we can introduce a resource manager | 05:13 |
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| yamahata | natarajk: yes | 05:13 |
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| natarajk | yamahata: i am planning to spend more time this week. Will have some comments for the next week meeting | 05:15 |
| yamahata | natarajk: great. | 05:15 |
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| yamahata | natarajk: do you have any plan to update vyatta plugin patch? I'm willing to review it. | 05:15 |
| yamahata | I mean https://review.openstack.org/#/c/102336/ | 05:15 |
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| natarajk | yamahata: Yes, in the next couple of days. Our CI is almost ready | 05:16 |
| yamahata | cool | 05:16 |
| yamahata | anything else to discuss? | 05:16 |
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| natarajk | nothing from me | 05:17 |
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| yamahata | seem nothing left | 05:17 |
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| yamahata | todays meeting is short. | 05:17 |
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| yamahata | thank you. see you next week | 05:17 |
| natarajk | bye | 05:18 |
| yamahata | #endmeeting | 05:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 05:18 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 12 05:18:16 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 05:18 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/servicevm_device_manager/2014/servicevm_device_manager.2014-08-12-05.01.html | 05:18 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/servicevm_device_manager/2014/servicevm_device_manager.2014-08-12-05.01.txt | 05:18 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/servicevm_device_manager/2014/servicevm_device_manager.2014-08-12-05.01.log.html | 05:18 |
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| sc68cal | hello all | 14:02 |
| sc68cal | #startmeeting neutron_ipv6 | 14:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 12 14:02:35 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sc68cal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ipv6' | 14:02 |
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| xuhanp | hello | 14:02 |
| absubram__ | hi | 14:02 |
| HenryG | Hi | 14:03 |
| aveiga | o/ | 14:03 |
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| sc68cal | Agenda is pretty light today, I think most of the time can be for just coordinating code review | 14:03 |
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| sc68cal | xuhanp: how goes the stateful/stateless work? | 14:06 |
| xuhanp | sc68cal, I got some interesting comments from baoli | 14:06 |
| baoli | Hi | 14:07 |
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| xuhanp | one is that the extra options of dhcpv6 and dhcp are different, so I am thinking about how to let the code make sense. | 14:07 |
| xuhanp | baoli, do you have any suggestions in mind? | 14:08 |
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| baoli | xuhanp, I was thinking that there might be a couple of ways of dealing with it. | 14:08 |
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| baoli | xuhanp: when user supplies the extra_dhcp_opts in the port API, is there any verification on if the option is valid? | 14:09 |
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| baoli | I mean existing verification | 14:09 |
| xuhanp | I don't see any verification currently. | 14:09 |
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| xuhanp | right now it's just name value pairs | 14:11 |
| baoli | It used to be ok since it only deals with ipv4. With ipv6 added, would it make sense for the user to indicate if an option is meant for v4 or v6? | 14:11 |
| xuhanp | yeah. that will requires API change | 14:12 |
| baoli | If you check the dnsmasq definition for the option name strings, same name may be used for both v4 and v6 if the option applies to both. | 14:13 |
| baoli | so I think that it will take some thoughts to get it right from user's point of view and implementation point of view | 14:14 |
| xuhanp | yep. but if the option involves with v4 or v6 address we should separate them. | 14:14 |
| xuhanp | maybe we can think about it and discuss on mail list. | 14:14 |
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| baoli | xuhanp: sure | 14:16 |
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| xuhanp | I think the difficult case here is when the port has both IPv4 and v6 address. otherwise, we can just simply use option or option6 for extra_dhcp_opts | 14:17 |
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| baoli | xuhanp, that's right. But subnet can alos be added after the port is created. | 14:18 |
| xuhanp | yep. that makes it even more complicated. | 14:18 |
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| xuhanp | maybe we can change the format of extra_dhcp_opts name to option:XXX or option6:XXX | 14:19 |
| baoli | maybe we can use the name string like v[4|6]:<option-name> | 14:19 |
| baoli | xuhanp, looks like we are on the same page | 14:19 |
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| xuhanp | but we will need to make sure it's backward compatible. | 14:20 |
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| baoli | v[4|6]: is optional, and by default it's v4. | 14:20 |
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| xuhanp | sounds like a plan | 14:21 |
| xuhanp | I will send a email to list | 14:21 |
| baoli | in addition, verification may be needed to make sure that the user provides correct options | 14:21 |
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| xuhanp | yep | 14:22 |
| baoli | cool | 14:22 |
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| baoli | did you check the file dhcp_common.c? which should help a lot | 14:23 |
| xuhanp | not yet. will do | 14:24 |
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| sc68cal | Very cool. | 14:26 |
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| sc68cal | I think that J-3 is going to have a lot of stuff trying to land | 14:27 |
| sc68cal | so if possible let's try and keep the review cycles short on some of this stuff so we can get cores on it asap | 14:28 |
| xuhanp | sc68cal, sounds good. Maybe the extra_dhcp_opts validations stuff baoli and I discussed today can go to a separate patch, so we can get the major part landed first. | 14:30 |
| aveiga | +1 | 14:30 |
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| sc68cal | Yeah it sounds like there are lots of gotchas in that | 14:30 |
| aveiga | splitting it up makes it less likely for other parts to miss because of nits on one bit | 14:30 |
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| HenryG | Yes, I can see it being viewed as a separate bug | 14:31 |
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| baoli | sounds good to me | 14:32 |
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| baoli | in that case, I'll +1 on this current patch | 14:32 |
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| sc68cal | very cool | 14:33 |
| xuhanp | I will add a TODO or FIXME at your comment place | 14:33 |
| baoli | xuhanp, thanks | 14:33 |
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| sc68cal | xuhanp: I'll also test the patch in the lab at some point just to allay my fears about the host file. Your code looks fine, I just get a little feaful when someone is in that area of the dnsmasq code :) | 14:35 |
| pcarver_ | The mention of a separate patch brings up a question I have. How are people keeping track of everything that's in flight and what pieces are needed in order to get various parts of IPv6 working? | 14:35 |
| sc68cal | pcarver_: the specs that get merged in neutron-specs is what I use to track | 14:36 |
| pcarver_ | There's a list of code reviews on https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/IPv6 but all the links are broken. Is that info no longer used? | 14:36 |
| aveiga | pcarver_: that wiki is way out of date | 14:37 |
| sc68cal | pcarver_: it's probably out of date, but it looks like the updated gerrit system broke links too :( | 14:37 |
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| sc68cal | when they did the upgrade to gerrit | 14:37 |
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| pcarver_ | Would it make sense to either delete it or update it? Right now it's the top Google hit for "neutron ipv6" | 14:38 |
| pcarver_ | I'd be happy to update it if I knew what to update it to | 14:39 |
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| pcarver_ | Are the list of reviews still accurate if I just search in Gerrit for the correct links? | 14:39 |
| pcarver_ | Or have some of them been obsoleted and new ones needed that aren't on that list? | 14:40 |
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| sc68cal | Many of those reviews did get merged, so I think we can remove that section | 14:41 |
| sc68cal | Ideally we should add some docs to docs.openstack.org and link from the wiki | 14:41 |
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| dane_leblanc | Maybe we'll eventually need separate sections for J-release blueprints and upcoming K-release blueprints. | 14:45 |
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| pcarver_ | I'll see what I can do about cleaning up the links on the wiki. My problem is that I still feel kind of fuzzy on where we are at a high level. i.e. what user meaningful functionality we expect in J vs K | 14:49 |
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| sc68cal | J release will support *all* configurations for the ipv6 modes | 14:49 |
| sc68cal | meaning radvd and dnsmasq will be configured properly for v6 | 14:50 |
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| sc68cal | basically the following specs | 14:50 |
| sc68cal | http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/neutron-specs/specs/juno/ipv6-provider-nets-slaac.html | 14:50 |
| sc68cal | http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/neutron-specs/specs/juno/ipv6-dnsmasq-dhcpv6-stateless-stateful.html | 14:50 |
| sc68cal | http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/neutron-specs/specs/juno/ipv6-radvd-ra.html | 14:51 |
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| pcarver_ | ok, I'll take a crack at updating the wiki and see how it goes. | 14:52 |
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| sc68cal | pcarver_: thanks | 14:54 |
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| sc68cal | Do we have any other business? Otherwise I'll give everyone back a couple minutes | 14:56 |
| dane_leblanc | I put some code up for review. | 14:57 |
| dane_leblanc | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/113339 | 14:57 |
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| dane_leblanc | Blueprint is still in limbo, not -1 or -2'd, but no response for feature exception freeze | 14:57 |
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| sc68cal | Having the code posted, I think that'll help get it merged early in K | 14:58 |
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| sc68cal | ok everyone, till next week! | 15:00 |
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| sc68cal | Doing great work, keep it up! | 15:01 |
| sc68cal | #endmeeting | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 12 15:01:05 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-08-12-14.02.html | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-08-12-14.02.txt | 15:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-08-12-14.02.log.html | 15:01 |
| n0ano | #startmeeting gantt | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 12 15:01:21 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'gantt' | 15:01 |
| bauzas | \o | 15:01 |
| n0ano | anyone here to talk about the scheduler? | 15:01 |
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| mspreitz | o/ | 15:01 |
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| tianst | o/ | 15:01 |
| * n0ano refuses to jinx things by saying we have a short agenda | 15:02 | |
| n0ano | #topic forklift status | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "forklift status (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:02 | |
| bauzas | some people are most probably on PTO this week | 15:02 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, good point, it's Aug., why aren't you on vacation? | 15:03 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: baby exception | 15:03 |
| n0ano | :-) | 15:03 |
| n0ano | Anyway, couple of things on the forklift, client library | 15:03 |
| bauzas | and August is rainy here so was a good choice anyway... | 15:03 |
| bauzas | sure thing | 15:03 |
| bauzas | so | 15:04 |
| n0ano | bauzas, looks like you've been rebasing a lot, what are the odds this is the last patch set | 15:04 |
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| bauzas | about sched-lib, was based on ERT patch which was merged | 15:04 |
| bauzas | Jenkins is poorly handling conflicts | 15:04 |
| bauzas | and here we were having one | 15:04 |
| bauzas | but the code is 99.99% identical, except an unittest which needed to mock the call to ERT | 15:05 |
| n0ano | looks like it's all +1 so, hopefully, it's good to go | 15:05 |
| bauzas | think so | 15:05 |
| bauzas | so now we need reviewers :) | 15:06 |
| n0ano | my +1 is there :-) | 15:06 |
| bauzas | unless ERT is reverted back again (but will discuss about it later... :) ) | 15:06 |
| n0ano | I believe we have all 3 patches for isolating the DB posted, my bad I intend to review them today | 15:06 |
| bauzas | n0ano: so about isolate-sched-db, the proposal is still needing a second +2 | 15:07 |
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| n0ano | I wanted to ask, did you ping dipanov? | 15:07 |
| bauzas | the real problem is that it sounds not sexy at all | 15:07 |
| bauzas | n0ano: indeed | 15:07 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: ndipanov is not core on specs | 15:07 |
| bauzas | n0ano: but he was sponsor | 15:08 |
| n0ano | but he sponsored the exception, that wan't enough? | 15:08 |
| bauzas | n0ano: so his main concern is about the use of ERT | 15:08 |
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| n0ano | what's the concern, ERT is merged so, technically, we should use it | 15:08 |
| bauzas | his concerns about ERT are in this thread | 15:08 |
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| bauzas | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-August/042709.html ERT revert or not ? | 15:09 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: ERT code is not merged for scheduler consumes | 15:09 |
| bauzas | consumers... | 15:09 |
| ndipanov | bauzas, sponsoring at that point meant tha tI will review the code as a core reviewer | 15:09 |
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| ndipanov | but yeah - I'd prefer not to depend on the current implementation of the ERT | 15:10 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: agreed, I was just mentioning why we discussed about you | 15:10 |
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| ndipanov | but that's just like... my opinion maaan | 15:10 |
| bauzas | because most of the people probably don't know why we mentioned you :) | 15:10 |
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| bauzas | anyway, as I said, folks, please take time for reading this email and replying if willing | 15:11 |
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| n0ano | but wouldn't reverting ERT cause lots of problems? | 15:12 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: yeah, that's why we probably need to think about a plan B | 15:12 |
| Yathi | regarding ndipanov's concern, anything like ERT, will involve users feeding a lot of info while scheduling an instance.. | 15:12 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: my main concern is that the scheduler side of ERT is not pushed yet | 15:13 |
| Yathi | so that is more like a we have to make it simpler from a scheduler perspective I guess.. if I got the concern correctly | 15:13 |
| bauzas | Yathi: the current problem is about how we ensure that compute nodes can safely deny a request if scheduler made a wrong decision | 15:13 |
| ndipanov | Yathi, the concern is that we are basing a plugin system on a bad/broken internal API (RT and Claims) that we are de facto making public | 15:14 |
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| ndipanov | the reason for badness is that there is no reasonable way to incorporate user supplied data into it at present | 15:14 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: by public, you mean entrypoints ? | 15:14 |
| ndipanov | yes | 15:14 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: agreed, but that sounds to me a plain RT problem, not ERT | 15:15 |
| Yathi | ok | 15:15 |
| ndipanov | we don't really have a polcy for stability of those | 15:15 |
| ndipanov | but if we are going to be breaking them | 15:15 |
| ndipanov | I question the usefulness of the whole thing | 15:15 |
| bauzas | I'm more concerned about the timings and wrt ERT, if it's good or no to depend on a patch which could probably not land by Juno | 15:15 |
| ndipanov | them = 3rd party plugins | 15:15 |
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| bauzas | ndipanov: ok, then I see why you dislike ERT | 15:16 |
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| ndipanov | on top of the whole blobs thing that I didn't mention in the email | 15:17 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: I just think we need to identify what's needed for the host to make decisions | 15:17 |
| bauzas | ndipanov: replies are made for adding stuff you forget :) | 15:17 |
| Yathi | I agree the internal APIs might need fixing.. but should that block this feature for now? | 15:17 |
| bauzas | (says the one who forgot to add 2 links...) | 15:17 |
| ndipanov | Yathi, which feature? | 15:18 |
| ndipanov | ERT? | 15:18 |
| Yathi | ndipanov: ERT, Gantt related patches | 15:18 |
| ndipanov | well | 15:18 |
| ndipanov | I am not sure | 15:18 |
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| ndipanov | I am being defensive in saying - if we leave it like that - we will have to let bad code in too | 15:18 |
| Yathi | ndipanov: also Jay pipes has some proposal for rewriting claims | 15:18 |
| ndipanov | that is not the only way forward of course | 15:19 |
| Yathi | we agreed in the nova mid-cycle meetup to revisit after gantt | 15:19 |
| ndipanov | but the fact that this is something you can write 3rd party pluggins against | 15:19 |
| ndipanov | and we will need to break them | 15:19 |
| ndipanov | makes me think about the whole point of ERT | 15:19 |
| ndipanov | and that it may need to sit a while | 15:19 |
| bauzas | Yathi: I can just propose another alternative without ERT | 15:20 |
| bauzas | Yathi: we don't have too much dependency with ERT | 15:20 |
| n0ano | bauzas, I was just going to ask how hard it would be to do that | 15:20 |
| bauzas | Yathi: the real cool stuff of ERT for the isolate-sched-db are : | 15:20 |
| Yathi | bauzas: I saw it is only the recent patches you got it.. to use ERT way of getting instances, flavors etc | 15:20 |
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| bauzas | #1 : possibility to add/remove plugins in a conf style | 15:21 |
| bauzas | ie. only provide stats for what operator wants | 15:21 |
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| bauzas | #2 : interfaces in RT have already been written (and unittests too) so that's really a quick addition to do | 15:21 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: so if we say we go without ERT, I just need to write an helper class for doing this (plus tests) | 15:22 |
| bauzas | I don't think it's huge thing | 15:22 |
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| bauzas | well, as ndipanov said, that's just matter of adding blobs into blobs... | 15:22 |
| Yathi | bauzas: let's probably wait for it.. to see if ERT will stay or not | 15:23 |
| bauzas | Yathi: I disagree with you | 15:23 |
| n0ano | hmm, the tests would probably be close to the current RT tests so that shouldnt' be that big a deal, I think I like this as a plan B, even if it's more work for us | 15:23 |
| bauzas | Yathi: Juno-3 is in less than one month | 15:23 |
| bauzas | n0ano: +1 | 15:23 |
| Yathi | bauzas: oh sure.. I see the time crunch.. | 15:23 |
| bauzas | n0ano: that's just removing the user-facing stuff (and plugins) | 15:23 |
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| n0ano | I agress with bauzas , the schedule is tight, waiting is not a good option | 15:24 |
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| bauzas | the proposal won't probably include #1 (configurability of plugins) | 15:24 |
| bauzas | ie. instances and flavors will be provided | 15:24 |
| n0ano | bauzas, I don't see that as a problem, that's a future enhancement | 15:25 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: it was my next phrase, stop reading in minds | 15:25 |
| * n0ano fightening, we're beginning to sound like an old married couple :-) | 15:25 | |
| bauzas | about planning, I freed up my tasks because I delivered both plugins (except aggs but tianst is handing it) | 15:26 |
| bauzas | so I can handle that | 15:26 |
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| bauzas | I'll just be on PTO Thurs->Mon | 15:26 |
| n0ano | sounds like a plan, just do it | 15:26 |
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| bauzas | but that just means less time to work, not nothing :D | 15:26 |
| n0ano | still the question of the final +2 for the spec, should we ping jogo or someone? | 15:27 |
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| Yathi | you can work in your PTO no ? bauzas :) | 15:27 |
| bauzas | n0ano: feel free to do so | 15:27 |
| bauzas | n0ano: my karma (and my politics skills) are not that good these days :p | 15:28 |
| n0ano | OK, I'll see if I can get his attention | 15:28 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: anyway, most of the cores are US based | 15:28 |
| bauzas | n0ano: so that sounds a better option | 15:28 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: provided you feel enough comfortable for answering questions :) | 15:28 |
| n0ano | bauzas, we'll find out | 15:28 |
| bauzas | sweet | 15:29 |
| n0ano | OK, I think we know what we're doing here... | 15:29 |
| bauzas | indeed | 15:29 |
| n0ano | #topic opens | 15:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:29 | |
| bauzas | about aggregates, I saw tianst patch | 15:29 |
| n0ano | anyone have anything new | 15:29 |
| bauzas | I just advice him to wait for the new helper class | 15:29 |
| bauzas | that's it, opens for me | 15:30 |
| n0ano | bauzas, send him an email, should be OK | 15:30 |
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| tianst | bauzas: i am here :) | 15:30 |
| n0ano | or talk to him now on IRC :-) | 15:30 |
| bauzas | tianst: cool, we just agreed to implement a new helper class instead of basing on ERT | 15:30 |
| tianst | some issue on my network:) | 15:30 |
| bauzas | tianst: so I was saying that you just wait until I provide this class | 15:31 |
| bauzas | shouldn't be so long | 15:31 |
| tianst | bauzas: ok, I wiil wait you | 15:31 |
| n0ano | as agreed at the meetup, I'm sending an emal to all the PTLs letting know about Gantt and making sure they won't be surprised about it | 15:31 |
| bauzas | on opens, I just saw that you n0ano sent an email :) | 15:31 |
| bauzas | (stop reading minds !) | 15:31 |
| bauzas | we just had Swift's answer \o/ | 15:32 |
| Yathi | n0ano: that was a good email you sent today.. | 15:32 |
| n0ano | it finally went through? (I had too many CC addresses, it needed manual approval) | 15:32 |
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| n0ano | Yathi, story of my life, good emails (bad code :-) | 15:32 |
| Yathi | we need Cinder PTL to approve the story.. neutron has given us verbal vote already | 15:33 |
| bauzas | emailing is more complicated than writing code... | 15:33 |
| bauzas | code is logical, email replies are not | 15:33 |
| n0ano | Yathi, +1, I think cinder has the closest requirements to Nova so they're a perfect test case | 15:34 |
| bauzas | Swift sounds interested in | 15:34 |
| Yathi | bauzas: +1 emails that need to influence people to agree with you | 15:34 |
| bauzas | provided we clear out what will be Gantt on a Program basis | 15:34 |
| n0ano | also, again per the meetup, we need to come up with a rough roadmap for where we want Gantt to go post the split, everyone start thinking about that. | 15:35 |
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| Yathi | n0ano: make Gantt the smartest thing on earth :) | 15:35 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I would love to see some people looking at other projects | 15:35 |
| bauzas | n0ano: by "some people", I don't exclude myself | 15:36 |
| n0ano | Yathi, I just call that world domination | 15:36 |
| bauzas | n0ano: meaning that as other Shared Services projects, we need to know how other projects schedule their own bits | 15:36 |
| Yathi | :) | 15:36 |
| notmyname | bauzas: it was more of a question than saying we want swift to use it at this point (just to be clear) | 15:36 |
| n0ano | bauzas, yes, cross project support is hard but crucial | 15:36 |
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| bauzas | notmyname: my bad | 15:36 |
| bauzas | n0ano: so my question was | 15:37 |
| n0ano | notmyname, that's cool, I'm hoping that no one has a violent objection first | 15:37 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: before doing roadmap and saying what we should do, should we take time to see where we should go ? | 15:37 |
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| bauzas | by where I mean at least looking at Neutron node and probably Cinder | 15:38 |
| n0ano | bauzas, I would say that's part of the process, let's all think about it for now | 15:38 |
| bauzas | s/node/code | 15:38 |
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| Yathi | replacing Cinder scheduler should be easy I hope.. as they use similar constructs | 15:38 |
| bauzas | Yathi: indeed, as Cinder just forked 4 or 5 releases ago | 15:39 |
| Yathi | but may need efforts similar to what is being done for Nova now | 15:39 |
| n0ano | we don't have to have a roadmap immediately, we might not create it until after Paris, but we can start thinking/looking at code now | 15:39 |
| bauzas | Yathi: but I'm really unsure that Neutron has a ResourceTracker for example :p | 15:39 |
| bauzas | n0ano: that sounds a good plan | 15:39 |
| Yathi | bauzas: need to spend time looking at the projects | 15:39 |
| bauzas | Yathi: I already did :) | 15:40 |
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| Yathi | bauzas: awesome!.. also I think we need to watch for the policy related projects.. | 15:40 |
| bauzas | anyway, I think we need to take time to think about the abstractions we have | 15:40 |
| Yathi | creating quite a buzz everywhere.. including neutron.. | 15:40 |
| bauzas | Yathi: Congress sounds a good fit, but it's not yet incubated | 15:40 |
| bauzas | (already reviewed Congress too...) | 15:41 |
| n0ano | one administrivia, I'm at a conference next week, can I tag you bauzas to run the meeting | 15:41 |
| bauzas | and some bits of code are still needing refactoring before that IMHO | 15:41 |
| bauzas | n0ano: for sure | 15:41 |
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| Yathi | bauzas: I have watched Congress too closely.. but inside the nova community there have been several policy related BPs | 15:41 |
| bauzas | n0ano: just mail me your thoughts | 15:41 |
| Yathi | need to revisit them too | 15:41 |
| n0ano | #action bauzas to chair meeting on 8/19 | 15:42 |
| bauzas | Yathi: my personal opinion is that we need an iterative approach | 15:42 |
| Yathi | bauzas: +100 | 15:42 |
| n0ano | bauzas, no mail needed, we read our minds, remember :-) | 15:42 |
| bauzas | n0ano: cool, new discovery in science | 15:43 |
| n0ano | OK, silly time, unless someone has somethin substantive | 15:43 |
| n0ano | then I'll thank everyone and we'll talk again next week (minus me) | 15:44 |
| n0ano | #endmeeting | 15:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:44 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 12 15:44:42 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:44 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-08-12-15.01.html | 15:44 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-08-12-15.01.txt | 15:44 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-08-12-15.01.log.html | 15:44 |
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| bauzas | thanks | 15:45 |
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| marekd | o/ | 17:03 |
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| boris-42 | hi all | 17:11 |
| boris-42 | #start meeting | 17:11 |
| boris-42 | #startmeeting Rally | 17:11 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 12 17:11:45 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is boris-42. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:11 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:11 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rally' | 17:11 |
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| boris-42 | marekd hi | 17:12 |
| boris-42 | olkonami hi | 17:12 |
| olkonami | hi | 17:12 |
| boris-42 | oanufriev hi | 17:12 |
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| boris-42 | coolsvap hi | 17:12 |
| oanufriev | boris-42 hi | 17:13 |
| coolsvap | hello | 17:13 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 hi | 17:13 |
| k4n0 | boris-42, hi | 17:13 |
| boris-42 | rmk hi | 17:13 |
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| boris-42 | rediskin tzabal hi guys | 17:15 |
| tzabal | hello | 17:15 |
| rediskin | hi | 17:15 |
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| boris-42 | Okay let's start from various updates | 17:15 |
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| boris-42 | #topic could you say about cleanup stuff that you are working on, what did you done and what you are going to do | 17:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "could you say about cleanup stuff that you are working on, what did you done and what you are going to do (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:16 | |
| rediskin | ok cleanups | 17:16 |
| rediskin | well | 17:16 |
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| rediskin | im start some refactoring around cleanups | 17:17 |
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| rediskin | at first im doing cleanup rate limitting | 17:17 |
| rediskin | because currently rally is trying to delete objects too aggressively | 17:17 |
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| rediskin | it may broke cloud if there is a lots of objects to delete | 17:18 |
| rediskin | later im going to start work on cleanup checks | 17:19 |
| rediskin | collect info about cloud before benchmarks, and after benchmarks | 17:20 |
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| rediskin | and then compare it | 17:20 |
| rediskin | to determine which objects was not deleted | 17:20 |
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| rediskin | or objects was deleted, but should not be deletet %) | 17:20 |
| rediskin | boris-42: ^ | 17:21 |
| boris-42 | rediskin so check will be in gates? | 17:21 |
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| rediskin | it not problem to do it in gates | 17:21 |
| rediskin | if it done at all %) | 17:21 |
| boris-42 | rediskin cool | 17:21 |
| boris-42 | any questions? | 17:21 |
| boris-42 | tzabal coolsvap rmk olkonami ^ | 17:22 |
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| k4n0 | nope | 17:22 |
| boris-42 | ok great | 17:23 |
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| boris-42 | #topic benchmark context refactoring to support persitance context & LDAP | 17:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "benchmark context refactoring to support persitance context & LDAP (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:23 | |
| rmk | Hello | 17:23 |
| boris-42 | rmk hi there we have rally meeting) | 17:23 |
| rmk | yep Im here now | 17:23 |
| boris-42 | So guys I am working mostly on refactoring benchmark context engine | 17:23 |
| boris-42 | first of all we should make it possible to consume setup/cleaup methods of context separately | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | This actually is already done and hope that will be soon merged | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/104962/ | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | After that I am going to move creation of benchmark.context to level of benchmark.engine from scenario runner | 17:25 |
| boris-42 | And refactor what we are storing in context shared object | 17:25 |
| boris-42 | after this we can work on creating DB table for storing context | 17:26 |
| k4n0 | Sounds great | 17:26 |
| boris-42 | and creating CLI commands for create/deleting persistence context | 17:26 |
| boris-42 | On another way I am going to extend existing deploy config | 17:26 |
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| boris-42 | so It will accept as well list of users | 17:26 |
| boris-42 | and drop hardcoded "users" context requiremtns | 17:27 |
| boris-42 | E.g. you are not able to run any of tasks, without this context | 17:27 |
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| boris-42 | So LDAP clouds can be benchmark able as well | 17:28 |
| boris-42 | rmk ^ | 17:29 |
| boris-42 | #topic Documentation | 17:29 |
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| boris-42 | oanufriev hey there | 17:29 |
| boris-42 | oanufriev update please status | 17:29 |
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| oanufriev | i worked on appending Rally sphinx documentation with Rally wiky items | 17:31 |
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| oanufriev | no it's merged | 17:31 |
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| boris-42 | oanufriev ? | 17:31 |
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| boris-42 | now it's merged? | 17:31 |
| oanufriev | *now* and i've being working on scrips that properly append | 17:32 |
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| oanufriev | samples and user stories to sphinx | 17:32 |
| boris-42 | oanufriev could you provide links? | 17:32 |
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| oanufriev | and integrate into tox | 17:32 |
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| oanufriev | *toc* | 17:32 |
| oanufriev | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/113454/ | 17:32 |
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| boris-42 | ok nice | 17:33 |
| oanufriev | plans^ | 17:33 |
| oanufriev | *plans:* (sorry) | 17:33 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 rediskin ^ we will need to analyze this | 17:33 |
| k4n0 | yes | 17:34 |
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| boris-42 | Ok let's move to other topics | 17:34 |
| boris-42 | #topic benchmarking in VM | 17:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "benchmarking in VM (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:34 | |
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| boris-42 | tzabal could you provide updates of you great work? | 17:34 |
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| tzabal | sure | 17:34 |
| tzabal | well, i am working on the vm benchmarking | 17:35 |
| tzabal | right now i want to try the new vm benchmark scenario blogbench in gates | 17:35 |
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| tzabal | i think that the whole thing works, at least in my local test environment, so i hope that this will be in gates too | 17:36 |
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| tzabal | then we can review the patches for any code refactoring, and then i will add the unit tests | 17:36 |
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| tzabal | any questions? :) | 17:37 |
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| boris-42 | tzabal nice work on this | 17:41 |
| boris-42 | tzabal could you put links on your patches | 17:41 |
| boris-42 | here | 17:41 |
| tzabal | https://review.openstack.org/113119 this one is about a new benchmark context, the benchmark_image that acts as a base for the other vm benchmark contexts | 17:42 |
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| tzabal | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/98172/ this one is the "base" for the vm benchmark scenarios | 17:42 |
| tzabal | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97030/ and this one is the benchmark blogbench | 17:43 |
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| tzabal | just a note, they are not updated yet, i have made some modifications and they are currently only local, but i will update soon | 17:43 |
| tzabal | for example, the "base" that i wrote above, seems to have in the latest patch set 0 files (shame), but i will fix it :) | 17:44 |
| tzabal | its files can actually be found in the benchmark blogbench review (vmtasks and utils) | 17:44 |
| tzabal | but i have made some changes in the base.py of context, like defining the class as abstact | 17:45 |
| tzabal | this will get up soon | 17:45 |
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| boris-42 | tzabal ok nice | 17:46 |
| boris-42 | tzabal I will try to get time and review your patches | 17:47 |
| k4n0 | tzabal, thanks for the work | 17:47 |
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| tzabal | thanks | 17:48 |
| tzabal | i hope that it will be stable :) | 17:48 |
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| boris-42 | #topic open discussion | 17:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:49 | |
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| boris-42 | k4n0 coolsvap could you please provide details about what you are working on | 17:50 |
| boris-42 | and how that's go | 17:50 |
| coolsvap | I am working on couple of refactoring patches | 17:50 |
| k4n0 | boris-42, I am working on adding --json, --pprint , --html flags, been a slow last week. | 17:50 |
| k4n0 | Also working on adding metadata to task | 17:50 |
| k4n0 | Unit tests coverage | 17:51 |
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| k4n0 | All tasks are slow, but i will pick up pace now | 17:51 |
| coolsvap | The change sets are https://review.openstack.org/113011, [WIP] https://review.openstack.org/111989 | 17:51 |
| coolsvap | I am getting some pace on blueprint https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack/?searchtext=add-rally-create-cli-command | 17:52 |
| coolsvap | submitted a patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/98992/ | 17:52 |
| coolsvap | The unit test coverage blueprint I am working on is a bit slow | 17:52 |
| coolsvap | thats it from my side | 17:53 |
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| boris-42 | k4n0 do you have any progress related to metadata ? | 17:55 |
| k4n0 | boris-42, Not yet | 17:55 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 if you will have any question just ping me | 17:55 |
| k4n0 | boris-42, will get patches before end of week | 17:55 |
| k4n0 | boris-42, sure | 17:55 |
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| boris-42 | coolsvap I'll try to review quotas benchmarks | 17:55 |
| boris-42 | coolsvap /benchamrks/patch* | 17:55 |
| coolsvap | boris-42, sure thanks | 17:56 |
| boris-42 | coolsvap and thanks for doing this | 17:56 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 coolsvap thanks for updates | 17:56 |
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| k4n0 | thanks | 17:56 |
| boris-42 | Do we have any questions? | 17:56 |
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| boris-42 | to dicsusss? | 17:56 |
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| boris-42 | Ok if somebody would like to disucss anything you are welcome to #openstack-rally | 17:57 |
| coolsvap | boris-42, regarding recent updates to trello | 17:57 |
| boris-42 | #endmeeting | 17:57 |
| olkonami | I fixed plugins patch to work with current code and updated context plugin sample | 17:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:57 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 12 17:57:54 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:57 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-08-12-17.11.html | 17:57 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-08-12-17.11.txt | 17:57 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-08-12-17.11.log.html | 17:58 |
| boris-42 | coolsvap yep? | 17:58 |
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| boris-42 | coolsvap I tried to refactor it | 17:58 |
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| boris-42 | coolsvap to make it simpler and more clear for usage | 17:58 |
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| coolsvap | lets catchup on #openstack-rally | 17:58 |
| coolsvap | :) | 17:58 |
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| dolphm | ayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, fmarco76, nkinder, lloydm, shrekuma, ksavich, hrybacki, rharwood, grantbow: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:01 |
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| dstanek | o/ | 18:01 |
| topol | o/ | 18:01 |
| bknudson | dolphm: hi | 18:01 |
| lbragstad | dolphm: hey | 18:01 |
| marekd | hello | 18:01 |
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| ayoung | First squad all present and accounted for/ | 18:02 |
| dolphm | apologies for dissappearing last week | 18:02 |
| gyee | \o | 18:02 |
| dolphm | also, crazy long agenda today | 18:02 |
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| dolphm | so, let's begin! | 18:02 |
| dolphm | #startmeeting keystone | 18:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 12 18:02:38 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:02 |
| dolphm | real quick... | 18:02 |
| dolphm | #topic Feature Proposal Freeze: August 21st | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Feature Proposal Freeze: August 21st (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| dolphm | that's next week | 18:02 |
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| dolphm | and it means your blueprints need to be feature complete, stable and in review by that day, else be bumped to kilo | 18:03 |
| dolphm | if you don't think something is going to make it, give me a heads up ASAP | 18:03 |
| dolphm | we're definitely talking about the blocked ones later on the agenda | 18:03 |
| dolphm | so that is all, ping me later if you have questions :) | 18:04 |
| gyee | dolphm, both spec and impl needs to be up there by 8/21? | 18:04 |
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| gyee | or just bp and spec | 18:04 |
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| dolphm | gyee: according to the rest of the community, your spec should have landed weeks ago to be considered for juno | 18:04 |
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| dolphm | gyee: i did a poor job of communicating that here, so i'm not considering that to be a strict rule | 18:05 |
| dolphm | if something looks stable, let's consider it | 18:05 |
| dolphm | #topic Cleanup / Abandonment of WIP and Lingering reviews in Keystone repositories | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cleanup / Abandonment of WIP and Lingering reviews in Keystone repositories (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:05 | |
| ayoung | ++ | 18:05 |
| lbragstad | will we be following that for Kilo? | 18:05 |
| dolphm | we have a lot of old reviews that need to be pruned | 18:05 |
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| dolphm | lbragstad: likely, yes | 18:05 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: the earlier specs land the better | 18:05 |
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| lbragstad | ok, cool | 18:06 |
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| dolphm | on stale reviews: cores, feel free to abandon things that look like they aren't going to land. be sure to include an explanation | 18:06 |
| dolphm | abandoned reviews can be re-opened by the author, so it's not like a permament -2 or anything | 18:06 |
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| dolphm | at the very least, if something is miserably failing gate jobs and needs some love, leave it as WIP until someone can tackle it | 18:07 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: anything else to add or are you afk? | 18:07 |
| ayoung | I'll probably do that with most of mine, and get people to focus only on the ones that are high priority | 18:07 |
| * ayoung the worst offender for malingering reviews | 18:08 | |
| dstanek | ayoung: i was thinking the same thing | 18:08 |
| dstanek | for mine i mean | 18:08 |
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| ayoung | You meant for both. | 18:08 |
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| dstanek | sure, ok | 18:08 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: i'm far worse on allowing my reviews to stagnate! | 18:08 |
| gyee | ya'll get paid on number of reviews? :) | 18:08 |
| dstanek | gyee: are you offereing? | 18:09 |
| * gyee hides | 18:09 | |
| dolphm | dstanek: ++ | 18:09 |
| dstanek | i just fix stuff as i see it in other people's reviews | 18:09 |
| dolphm | dstanek: ++ | 18:09 |
| dstanek | or when poking around | 18:09 |
| dolphm | renaming this on the agenda... | 18:09 |
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| dolphm | #topic Last specs for Juno | 18:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Last specs for Juno (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:10 | |
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| dolphm | auth data https://review.openstack.org/#/c/107325/ | 18:10 |
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| dolphm | unscoped catalog https://review.openstack.org/#/c/107333/ | 18:10 |
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| jamielennox | yep, so hopefully everyone has seen this, we talked about it a few weeks ago | 18:10 |
| dolphm | gyee: did you have one for consideration? (that's nearly implemented?:) | 18:10 |
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| gyee | dolphm, the x.509 auth depends on generic mapping | 18:11 |
| jamielennox | need to get some actual votes on it though if its going to go through | 18:11 |
| gyee | I am working with Kristy on this to get the generic mapping working first | 18:11 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, o/ here now | 18:11 |
| marekd | gyee: ++ cool | 18:11 |
| dolphm | gyee: ? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/generic-mapping-federation | 18:11 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, but don't have anything to add to your comments | 18:11 |
| dolphm | gyee: whats your bp name, i'll link them | 18:12 |
| gyee | dolphm, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/105913/5/specs/juno/x509-ssl-client-cert-authn.rst | 18:12 |
| dolphm | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/107325/ auth data spec | 18:12 |
| dolphm | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/107333/ unscoped catalog spec | 18:12 |
| gyee | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/x509-ssl-client-cert | 18:12 |
| gyee | -authn | 18:12 |
| gyee | ++ for auth data spec | 18:13 |
| bknudson | is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/107325/6/specs/juno/auth-specific-data.rst proposing get rid of /v3/catalog? | 18:13 |
| gyee | no sure about the unscoped catalog one though | 18:13 |
| dolphm | gyee: is there an implementation for the x509 spec somewhere? | 18:13 |
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| gyee | dolphm, no, there's an implemented based on auth plugin which I abandon https://review.openstack.org/#/c/103736/ | 18:14 |
| gyee | but I don't have one based on generic map yet | 18:14 |
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| dolphm | gyee: are we likely to see one before next week? | 18:14 |
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| grantbow | interesting | 18:15 |
| dolphm | gyee: if not, we should plan this for kilo now | 18:15 |
| gyee | dolphm, lets do it for Kilo to be safe | 18:15 |
| gyee | I need to get the generic map working | 18:15 |
| gyee | right now its not truly "generic" | 18:15 |
| dolphm | gyee: awesome, i'd like some more focus there :) | 18:15 |
| gyee | mapping is only capable of mapping to user_id and group_id right now from what I can tell | 18:16 |
| dolphm | stevemar's not here, but open id connect support is in the same boat. blocked by generic mapping | 18:16 |
| dolphm | gyee: that's true (a list of groups) | 18:16 |
| gyee | I need to get it to a point where we can map one set to another set of attributes | 18:16 |
| marekd | gyee: i think generic mapping/reeingeneered federation patch will also be posponed for K ? | 18:17 |
| marekd | dolphm: ^^ | 18:17 |
| dolphm | marekd: should it be postponed? | 18:17 |
| gyee | marekd, we need it to be truly generic | 18:17 |
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| marekd | dolphm: it's still marked as WIP. | 18:17 |
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| dolphm | marekd: correct; do you think it needs more time? | 18:17 |
| dolphm | i don't know how far the implementation is behind the spec | 18:18 |
| marekd | dolphm: i posted my comments a long time ago, and since then I haven't heard anything. gyee says he works with Kristy on that so he can answer whether it's far beyond the spec but AFAIR it needs more time. | 18:18 |
| dolphm | i'm going to bump all 3 to 'next' (kilo) for now, and if something changes this week, we can re-evaluate | 18:19 |
| marekd | dolphm: great! | 18:19 |
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| gyee | dolphm, ++ | 18:19 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: my impression of auth data and the unscoped catalog is that they can be ready for code review this week if the specs are approved - is that true? | 18:20 |
| gyee | since they are all related | 18:20 |
| marekd | yeah | 18:20 |
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| jamielennox | dolphm: i have a WIP for unscoped catalog | 18:20 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: auth data should be fairly trivial but i haven't done it | 18:20 |
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| jamielennox | you had a patch to move /catalog to /auth/catalog from memory | 18:20 |
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| dolphm | that's still up, somewhere | 18:21 |
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| stevemar | o/ | 18:21 |
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| jamielennox | dolphm: so yes, if we approve them i can have code ready in a day or two | 18:22 |
| dolphm | stevemar: fyi, bumping openid connect to kilo unless mapping gets some traction this week | 18:22 |
| dolphm | generic-mapping | 18:22 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: ack | 18:22 |
| stevemar | dolphm, ok, did Henry give his opinion on the matter? | 18:22 |
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| topol | dolphm, what is the Aug 21 deadline again? blueprints or code must be under review? | 18:22 |
| dolphm | stevemar: unavailable | 18:22 |
| marekd | topol: code | 18:22 |
| stevemar | topol, the latter | 18:22 |
| gyee | topol, the whole shebang | 18:22 |
| dolphm | topol: stable code in review | 18:22 |
| jamielennox | bnemec: sorry just saw comment from further back - it's proposing to move it to /auth/catalog not get rid of it | 18:22 |
| ayoung | there are 3 reasons to have the unscoped catalog, BTW: list projcts, list domains, exchage the unscoped token for a token | 18:22 |
| jamielennox | oops bknudson ^ was for you | 18:23 |
| bknudson | jamielennox: ok. | 18:23 |
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| bknudson | was just hoping that /v3/catalog could be made consistent with this | 18:24 |
| dolphm | bknudson: it would be | 18:24 |
| gyee | catalog is optional anyway so I can the base auth plugin can handle that logic | 18:24 |
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| gyee | if catalog is absent, try to fetch it via the catalog api | 18:24 |
| bknudson | gyee: that's going to be /v3/auth/catalog and not /v3/catalog | 18:25 |
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| dolphm | assuming jamielennox's auth-data spec is approved | 18:25 |
| bknudson | just write your code to use JSON Home to find the resource and you won't have to worry about it | 18:25 |
| dolphm | bknudson: =) | 18:25 |
| gyee | I am fine either way, just a matter of consistency | 18:26 |
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| gyee | if everybody is going with JSON home, why not | 18:26 |
| bknudson | In K somebody can work on client support. | 18:27 |
| dolphm | #topic Keystone Weekly Bug Report | 18:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone Weekly Bug Report (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:27 | |
| dolphm | lbragstad: o/ | 18:27 |
| dolphm | this is new :) | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | http://pasteraw.com/b0r3xfk41debm0tdjwcewtmf9k2lf0f | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | so, just wanting to do a weekly bug round up | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | just a quick 30 second "here are all the bugs that were opened against us in the last 7 days and their status" | 18:28 |
| stevemar | lbragstad, neat, thanks for this, helps for folks like me who don't look at launchpad often enough | 18:28 |
| bknudson | "ldap binary fields fail when code try to convert to utf8" is interesting... I thought we fixed it | 18:28 |
| lbragstad | I can do this for keystone, keystonemiddleware, and python-keystoneclient | 18:28 |
| bknudson | but then it also shows that we're using LDAP inefficiently and fetching more attrs than we need to | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | lbragstad, that would be awesome | 18:28 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: for future reference, you could use the wonderful launchpad api to query this stuff | 18:28 |
| lbragstad | dolphm | 18:29 |
| lbragstad | it's built on the api | 18:29 |
| marekd | :D | 18:29 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: win | 18:29 |
| lbragstad | https://github.com/lbragstad/openstack-infra-scripts | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, lbragstad, there is also the untriaged bot that triple-o is using, we might be able to use that and report in the channel at X interval what bugs are not looked at | 18:29 |
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| lbragstad | some minor modifications I did to jogo's bug roundup infra scripts | 18:29 |
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| lbragstad | hopeing this will help up triage bugs a little faster, not saying it's not fast enough :) | 18:30 |
| lbragstad | hoping* | 18:30 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: well now you just need a more recent run - everything in the paste is out of date :P | 18:30 |
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| lbragstad | dolphm: sounds good, I'll run this for keystone, keystonemiddleware, and python-keystoneclient before every meeting and paste the results | 18:31 |
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| dolphm | lbragstad: and if possible: openstack-api-site for bugs with the identity-api tag | 18:31 |
| lbragstad | dolphm: good point, I can built that in | 18:31 |
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| dolphm | i haven't worked with tags in the api, so i don't know how well that will go | 18:31 |
| ayoung | Gotta drop. Back on line in an hour-ish | 18:32 |
| dolphm | ayoung: ack | 18:32 |
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| dolphm | bug love appreciated :) | 18:32 |
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| dolphm | #topic What is a sane default cache timeout? | 18:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "What is a sane default cache timeout? (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:32 | |
| dolphm | dstanek: o/ | 18:32 |
| dolphm | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1355919 | 18:32 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1355919 in keystone "By default when caching is enabled, objects will be cached forever" [Medium,In progress] | 18:32 |
| dstanek | so i want to get opinions from the group | 18:33 |
| dstanek | what would be a sane setting? | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, dstanek, that is the case for assignment, tokens have a default already | 18:33 |
| bknudson | forever is an unreasonable default | 18:33 |
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| morganfainberg | dstanek, dolphm, i think catalog is also affected by that bug (now) | 18:33 |
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| dolphm | there were a few cache_time options with no default | 18:33 |
| dstanek | i chose 10 minutes in my patch, but i would be open to discussion | 18:33 |
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| dstanek | assignment, catalog and token IIRC | 18:34 |
| gyee | dstanek, really? we cache the stuff *forever*?!! | 18:34 |
| dolphm | gyee: by default | 18:34 |
| gyee | oh my | 18:34 |
| dstanek | gyee: there is code that will remove cached entries for some things | 18:34 |
| bknudson | I thought we didn't cache anything by default | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, fairly certain token has a default | 18:34 |
| dstanek | but as far as i can tell it's not everything | 18:34 |
| dolphm | dstanek: i was just going to suggest "minutes", so 10 fits my answer :) | 18:34 |
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| morganfainberg | or it used to | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | vlah | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | blah* | 18:35 |
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| dstanek | morganfainberg: :-) | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, you have to turn on caching, the config is very deployment specific | 18:35 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, but if you do turn it on, it caches forever (well barring an invalidation because of update, keystone is *good* about invalidating when things change) | 18:35 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: typo-correcting your frustration is either coincidental or ironic, i can't remember which | 18:36 |
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| bknudson | 10 minutes seems reasonable to me. | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, both! | 18:36 |
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| Haneef | morgon: I believe both global cache and token cache is disabled by default | 18:36 |
| bknudson | keystone doesn't know about users when you have them in ldap | 18:36 |
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| dstanek | the review itself it trivial if we agree on 10 minutes - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/113586 | 18:36 |
| bknudson | so if you enable caching for users then it won't notice a change for the cache time? | 18:37 |
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| bknudson | (read-only ldap) | 18:37 |
| gyee | bknudson, its a feature to cache LDAP lookups | 18:37 |
| dolphm | and it's dependent on an even more trivial review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/113585/ | 18:37 |
| gyee | performance gain | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, 10 mins works for me, may i suggest we do the same thing we do for the "enable" have a global default that can be overridded by the individual subsystem | 18:37 |
| topol | 10 mins sounds good | 18:37 |
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| gyee | right now we do 3 LDAP roundtrips with every auth | 18:37 |
| dstanek | morganfainberg: that would be easy enough | 18:37 |
| dolphm | gyee: for extra security | 18:38 |
| gyee | huh? | 18:38 |
| bknudson | 3-factor authentication | 18:38 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: ++ | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, yah, and it means as we add more caching, people don't need to remember adding the default | 18:38 |
| gyee | heh, I get the joke now | 18:38 |
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| dolphm | we need to have the openstack code proposal bot give us sample config updates daily <-- someone #action themselves thx | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, it would just be changing the lambdas | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, infra nixed that | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, when i proposed it -- or is that a joke | 18:38 |
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| dolphm | morganfainberg: i'm serious - why was it nixed? | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, because it "wasn't what they wanted" they want sample configs to be generated on release. - it was a lot of back and forth. | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, i'll revisit it, but it was pretty resounding "no, not the right answer" | 18:39 |
| bknudson | we never used the lockutils stuff... it was just pulled in via oslo-incubator. | 18:40 |
| gyee | can't we automate the sample conf generation stuff in Jenkins? | 18:40 |
| gyee | like some sort of hook? | 18:40 |
| bknudson | nova doesn't have a sample config in git repo | 18:40 |
| dolphm | generated on release is dumb for the sake of docs | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, no, automation is not allowed to commit to a repo. | 18:40 |
| dstanek | i have a test i can commit that will break if the config isn't up to date - that may help a little | 18:40 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, seem dump to having to manually generate it every time | 18:41 |
| gyee | dumb | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, i can add a simple non-voting job that tells us if it is out of date | 18:41 |
| bknudson | dstanek: we tried the test breaking on sample config and it was a disaster | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, infra wasn't opposed to that really | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | but we cant *gate* on it being up-to-date | 18:41 |
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| stevemar | dolphm, fyi updated meeting agenda | 18:41 |
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| dolphm | morganfainberg: that would be better than where we're at | 18:42 |
| bknudson | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/nova/tree/etc/nova/README-nova.conf.txt | 18:42 |
| dstanek | bknudson: i didn't realize we had a test. i remember the issues generating the config | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | i'll revisit proposal bot with them first. | 18:42 |
| dolphm | ack | 18:42 |
| bknudson | we could just go with Nova's approach and not have a sample config in git | 18:42 |
| dstanek | anyway...i'll create a patch to have a global default cache_time | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, that is likely what we'll be told to do. | 18:42 |
| dolphm | bknudson: i think that's a terrible approach from the perspective of docs and new user experience. it's an unnecessary hurdle | 18:42 |
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| topol | dolphm +++ | 18:43 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: and i'm happy to argue against it | 18:43 |
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| bknudson | I find the sample config in git handy | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++ i'll poke ya when we get there (later today) | 18:43 |
| dolphm | bknudson: i link people to it every couple days, for sure | 18:43 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: thanks | 18:43 |
| dolphm | #topic Attempt to assign a role to a non existent user should fail | 18:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Attempt to assign a role to a non existent user should fail (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:43 | |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, if we go non-voting job, it'll be a check-only job | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | (not run at gate time) | 18:43 |
| dstanek | bknudson: ++ i point people to it quite a bit | 18:43 |
| dolphm | i just wanted to bring this up again, because i'm the sole voice on this, along with everyone filing bugs | 18:43 |
| dolphm | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1355655 | 18:43 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1355655 in keystone "Attempt to assign a role to a non existent user should fail" [Undecided,Opinion] | 18:43 |
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| morganfainberg | i think the reason for that was federated users. | 18:44 |
| dolphm | i left it as opinion, but i really think we should 404 for invalid data. users will forever be confused | 18:44 |
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| dolphm | morganfainberg: correct | 18:44 |
| bknudson | there have been arguments that we shouldn't 404 for this. | 18:44 |
| bknudson | for the case where you're using LDAP and for some reason the user hasn't been added yet | 18:45 |
| bknudson | We should get a use case that says why this must fail | 18:45 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, i'm not sure that is really a valid case. esp. with the user_id mapping stuff | 18:45 |
| bknudson | the complaint here is just that tempest fails. | 18:45 |
| dstanek | how do you give roles to users in federation anyway? i thought they were always mapped to a group | 18:46 |
| bknudson | what's the real issue? | 18:46 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, they are. | 18:46 |
| dolphm | bknudson: user experience is the use case | 18:46 |
| dolphm | the one that i see, anyway | 18:46 |
| bknudson | ok, but this bug report isn't about UX | 18:46 |
| dolphm | bknudson: agree/understood | 18:46 |
| dolphm | i'm just going to put it on the agenda everytime someone complains :) | 18:47 |
| dolphm | #topic notifications for role assignments | 18:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "notifications for role assignments (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:47 | |
| dolphm | stevemar: o/ | 18:47 |
| dstanek | the behaviour, i think, is not intutitive and will keep confusing people | 18:47 |
| dolphm | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/112204/ | 18:47 |
| stevemar | dolphm, hey | 18:47 |
| morganfainberg | i'm fine with 404ing in this case now since the user_id mapping happened | 18:47 |
| stevemar | thx | 18:47 |
| dolphm | dstanek: ++ | 18:47 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:47 |
| bknudson | dstanek: test writers? | 18:47 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, it changes the landscape some. | 18:47 |
| stevemar | so, i tossed up some code for emitting notifications for role_assignments | 18:47 |
| stevemar | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/112204/ | 18:47 |
| stevemar | i'd appreciate some reviews :) | 18:48 |
| stevemar | and for dolphm - do you want a spec/bp/bug for this? | 18:48 |
| dolphm | stevemar: no spec for weird public api notification format? :P | 18:48 |
| stevemar | dolphm, it's not all that different | 18:48 |
| dolphm | i think notifications are a public api that is severely undocumented in openstack, i just want to make sure we're not contributing to that mess | 18:49 |
| gyee | stevemar, I thought you should get a purple heart for modifying the notification payload :) | 18:49 |
| stevemar | gyee, hooray | 18:49 |
| dolphm | stevemar: weird = arbitrary and clients needs to understand it and for it to be stable | 18:49 |
| stevemar | yeah it was a mess earlier | 18:49 |
| stevemar | dolphm, i agree the docs suck atm | 18:49 |
| stevemar | dolphm, i was just going to add a small bit of info | 18:49 |
| stevemar | dolphm, but if you want me to overhaul them, i cans | 18:50 |
| dolphm | stevemar: as long as we're documenting what we're doing and holding ourselves to it? | 18:50 |
| gyee | stevemar, but why stop at role assignment? it should be for any sort of updates | 18:50 |
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| lbragstad | we'll need a new notifications wrapper class for each kind of update? | 18:50 |
| jamielennox | stevemar: i know there was compaints from jogo and nova that these notifications conform to a stable api | 18:50 |
| dolphm | gyee: role assigment is just an odd one, because there's not a resource entity in the picture | 18:51 |
| stevemar | gyee, role assignments in particular were weird, cause it has multiple entities being affected | 18:51 |
| gyee | lbragstad, yes, right now we can't tell what's being updated | 18:51 |
| stevemar | yeah ^ | 18:51 |
| gyee | only the resource ID is not good enough | 18:51 |
| stevemar | gyee, yeah, cause you don't know what the role is being assigned to, and on what project | 18:51 |
| dolphm | you could almost emit 3 notifications :-/ | 18:51 |
| stevemar | (or domain) | 18:51 |
| stevemar | dolphm, nope! | 18:51 |
| dolphm | but i'd rather bring it back to the use case - who's going to consume the notifications and what do they care about? | 18:52 |
| gyee | say PATCH /users/user_id, how can we tell which fields are being updated? | 18:52 |
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| dolphm | gyee: why do you need to know which fields were updated? | 18:52 |
| Haneef | Which openstack service care about role assigments? Are we concerned about delete role_assignment | 18:53 |
| dolphm | gyee: don't you just care about what the new entity looks like? | 18:53 |
| stevemar | dolphm, for auditing i would think. it's one of those things an admin should be able to watch with ceilometer | 18:53 |
| dolphm | Haneef: delete assignment is sort of handled by token revocation events | 18:53 |
| dolphm | Haneef: but for auditing, crud all the assignments | 18:53 |
| gyee | dolphm, yes, even as simply as changing email cause a bunch of changes behind the scene | 18:54 |
| dolphm | stevemar: so let's write a short spec on the perspective that an auditor cares about? | 18:54 |
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| stevemar | dolphm, alright | 18:55 |
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| stevemar | dolphm et all, i'd still appreciate code reviews! :) | 18:55 |
| dolphm | #topic open discussion | 18:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:56 | |
| dolphm | YAY 5 MINUTES LEFT | 18:56 |
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| bknudson | I proposed a minor change to JSON Home spec based on Anne Gentle's feedback: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/113413/ | 18:57 |
| bknudson | this is the location she suggested for the relationship link so that we could potentially publish something there | 18:57 |
| dolphm | bknudson: ++ | 18:57 |
| ajayaa | dolphm, What do I need to pay if I changed status of a bug by mistake? | 18:58 |
| bknudson | it's not required by json home to have the links lead anywhere, but it's something we could do eventually | 18:58 |
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| dolphm | ' | 18:58 |
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| topol | bknudson thats a cool option to have | 18:58 |
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| * dolphm liquid-keyboard interaction incident | 18:58 | |
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| topol | dolphm any sparks??? | 18:58 |
| bknudson | so now I'm also working on refactoring the JSON Home code so that it's easy to change the relationship link | 18:59 |
| bknudson | removing duplication | 18:59 |
| dolphm | topol: this isn't a thinkpad | 18:59 |
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| stevemar | dolphm, thinkpads are bullet and water proof | 18:59 |
| dstanek | stevemar: that's because it's a brick | 19:00 |
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| bknudson | I'm guessing there won't be further oslo libs published in J | 19:00 |
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| bknudson | so the oslo.utils one is probably the last | 19:00 |
| dolphm | oop, time | 19:01 |
| dolphm | #endmeeting | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 12 19:01:11 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-08-12-18.02.html | 19:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-08-12-18.02.txt | 19:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-08-12-18.02.log.html | 19:01 |
| dolphm | dstanek: ++++ | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | hello infra folks? | 19:02 |
| fungi | hey-o! | 19:02 |
| nibalizer | o/ | 19:02 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:02 |
| wenlock | hi | 19:02 |
| anteaya | o/ | 19:02 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 19:02 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:02 |
| emagana | hi all.. new guy here! | 19:02 |
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| nibalizer | welcome! | 19:02 |
| pleia2 | welcome emagana :) | 19:02 |
| jesusaurus | o/ | 19:02 |
| grantbow | also new here, hi | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 12 19:02:44 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| sweston | o/ | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:02 |
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| emagana | thanks! | 19:02 |
| pleia2 | welcome grantbow | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #link agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting | 19:02 |
| clarkb | o/ | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | #link previous meeting: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-08-05-19.02.html | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #topic Puppet module Split out (jesusaurus/nibalizer) | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Puppet module Split out (jesusaurus/nibalizer) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| nibalizer | okay so i guess we decided some stuff last time that i forgot | 19:03 |
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| nibalizer | but sounds like step 1 is to split out a guniea pig | 19:03 |
| nibalizer | so i can do that with storyboard | 19:03 |
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| jeblair | i probably should use the agree command more | 19:03 |
| * krotscheck perks up. | 19:04 | |
| nibalizer | jeblair: you had no chance, i had to do wedding stuff(not mine) last week so my brain was fried | 19:04 |
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| nibalizer | krotscheck: so yea your patches that haven't landed, we can pivot those to be applied to the new storyboard module | 19:04 |
| pleia2 | nibalizer: btw, once the guinea pig is done, you're welcome to add me to people who can help with splitting out modules | 19:04 |
| krotscheck | nibalizer: Works for me. | 19:04 |
| nibalizer | the puppet-storyboard projcet has already been created so thats easy | 19:04 |
| jeblair | we didn't land the big storyboard refactor? | 19:04 |
| jesusaurus | pleia2: awesome :) | 19:04 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: We did. | 19:04 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: We’re now building on that. | 19:04 |
| nibalizer | i think we should have a little discussion about acls | 19:04 |
| jeblair | ah cool | 19:04 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: ya krotscheck is a machine | 19:05 |
| jedimike | hi | 19:05 |
| nibalizer | i.e. does infra-core retain the +2+a on the modules | 19:05 |
| sweston | please add me to the list of people who can help with the module split as well. | 19:05 |
| nibalizer | or do we give it krotchchek on the storyboard module? | 19:05 |
| mordred | yes | 19:05 |
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| jeblair | krotscheck, nibalizer: does the new refactor work? ie, is it stable enough for us to pivot to now? | 19:05 |
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| * SergeyLukjanov2 lurking | 19:05 | |
| krotscheck | jeblair: It’s currently in use. | 19:05 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: But there’s one thing left that.... | 19:06 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: that ^^ | 19:06 |
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| jeblair | once we approve https://review.openstack.org/#/c/99990/ we will make a story for each module | 19:06 |
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| jeblair | and then all the folks that want to volunteer can assign that story to themselves | 19:06 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: Well, there’s one remaining patch that I want to land to make it “stable" | 19:06 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: great | 19:06 |
| jeblair | s/that story/those stories/ | 19:06 |
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| jeblair | nibalizer: can we land that first, then focus on catching the external module up? | 19:07 |
| krotscheck | nibalizer jeblair: This one - https://review.openstack.org/113616 | 19:07 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: lets land krotchekcs patch for stability | 19:07 |
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| nibalizer | then catch the external module up | 19:07 |
| jeblair | #agreed land https://review.openstack.org/113616 to internal storyboard module, then begin moving to external module | 19:07 |
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| nibalizer | woot | 19:08 |
| anteaya | nice use of agreed | 19:08 |
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| jeblair | anything else on this? | 19:09 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:09 |
| * krtaylor notices "agreed", hm I'll have to use that.. | 19:09 | |
| nibalizer | jeblair: acls? | 19:09 |
| jedimike | o/ | 19:09 |
| jeblair | heh, i guess we should expand on mordred's answer to that :) | 19:09 |
| mordred | :) | 19:10 |
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| nibalizer | oh did mordred say something? | 19:10 |
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| jeblair | nibalizer: infra-core will have +2 on all openstack-infra/ projects (including these) | 19:10 |
| nibalizer | oh he said yes | 19:10 |
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| anteaya | nibalizer: if you need help with the acl in the patch, let me know, I can help you | 19:10 |
| nibalizer | anteaya: okay | 19:10 |
| nibalizer | aight sweet then i think im good on this topic | 19:11 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: once they are split out, we can consider giving folks +2 on individual projects | 19:11 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: cool | 19:11 |
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| jeblair | but probably not right away, so for sanity sake, i'd just put infra-core in the acl files for now | 19:11 |
| fungi | we generally accomplish that, as needed, by modifying the acl to use a new core reviewer group and have it include the infra-core group | 19:11 |
| jeblair | fungi: ++ | 19:11 |
| jeblair | #topic Project renames (flaper87,jraim) | 19:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Project renames (flaper87,jraim) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:12 | |
| SergeyLukjanov2 | I'd like to do this renaming | 19:12 |
| jeblair | SergeyLukjanov2: i'd like that too! :) | 19:12 |
| Ajaeger | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/113614/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/111244/ are also renames | 19:12 |
| fungi | flaper87 wasn't going to be around for the meeting sounded like, but said something to the effect of "the sooner the better" | 19:12 |
| Ajaeger | Rename Marconi to Zaqar | 19:12 |
| fungi | Ajaeger: yep | 19:13 |
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| Ajaeger | and just pushed: Move openstack-security-notes to attic | 19:13 |
| SergeyLukjanov2 | ack | 19:13 |
| jeblair | Ajaeger: cool, can you add that to https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Upcoming_Project_Renames | 19:13 |
| fungi | i tacked on jraim so we could get some clarification on whether the kite rename should also include python-kiteclient | 19:13 |
| jeblair | jraim: ping | 19:13 |
| Ajaeger | jeblair: will add directly | 19:13 |
| jeblair | fungi: i think i was catching us up to the governance repo | 19:14 |
| fungi | but wasn't able to get jraim's attention earlier, so he's probably also not around at the moment | 19:14 |
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| jeblair | fungi: and kiteclient isn't in there | 19:14 |
| fungi | jeblair: yep, i figured that out from the wiki history | 19:14 |
| jeblair | bug that sort of suggests the question of whether that was an omission from the gov repo | 19:14 |
| fungi | mainly wanted to sync up on whether it should be, and whether we should delay the kite rename until it happens | 19:14 |
| fungi | so that they get renamed at the same time | 19:15 |
| fungi | so anyway, it sounds like maybe just the marconi and security notes renames are ready to go in near term | 19:15 |
| SergeyLukjanov2 | yup | 19:16 |
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| jeblair | yeah, let's keep trying to get clarification on that, and defer kite until we do | 19:16 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:16 |
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| fungi | who has dates/times they really want to avoid? should we do friday pst afternoon? earlier? | 19:16 |
| SergeyLukjanov2 | so, here is the guide for renaming - http://ci.openstack.org/gerrit.html?highlight=rename#renaming-a-project am I right? | 19:16 |
| fungi | SergeyLukjanov2: yep. it may or may not be 100% current, but it's close | 19:17 |
| jeblair | SergeyLukjanov2: yep; we'll make sure at least one other person is there with you to double check | 19:17 |
| SergeyLukjanov2 | I'd like to avoid my sunday (your sat/sun night) | 19:17 |
| jeblair | we keep finding that little things have changed | 19:17 |
| SergeyLukjanov2 | I think there were no changes in gerrit since last renaming, so, it should be going good | 19:17 |
| clarkb | friday is ard for me but early saturday morning pst should be ok | 19:17 |
| fungi | SergeyLukjanov2: generally we try to put together an etherpad with the timeline and cut+paste of the grittier commands so they can be peer reviewed | 19:18 |
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| fungi | also we want to make sure the pending rename commits are fully reviewed and current (not in need of rebases) | 19:18 |
| jeblair | SergeyLukjanov2: what's the latest time friday that would be okay for you? | 19:18 |
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| SergeyLukjanov2 | early sat morning is ok for me | 19:18 |
| SergeyLukjanov2 | let me calc re friday | 19:18 |
| SergeyLukjanov2 | so, I'm UTC-4 | 19:19 |
| jeblair | clarkb: 1600 utc saturday okay? | 19:19 |
| * clarkb does math | 19:19 | |
| clarkb | that is 9am? that should work | 19:19 |
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| SergeyLukjanov2 | and 3 am is time when I'm falling asleep | 19:19 |
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| clarkb | fungi: will you be around? | 19:19 |
| SergeyLukjanov2 | 1600 utc saturday is ok for me too | 19:20 |
| fungi | looks like that's 8pm SergeyLukjanov2's time? | 19:20 |
| * clarkb is wondering how many schedules we are trying to juggle? | 19:20 | |
| fungi | clarkb: i'm fine with it | 19:20 |
| SergeyLukjanov2 | correction: UTC+4 :) | 19:20 |
| clarkb | cool why don't we aim for then then? | 19:20 |
| jeblair | #agreed project renames 1600 utc aug 16 | 19:20 |
| SergeyLukjanov2 | ok, sounds like we agreed in 1600 utc saturday | 19:20 |
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| SergeyLukjanov2 | :) | 19:20 |
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| jeblair | did i get that right? :) | 19:21 |
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| SergeyLukjanov2 | I'll prepare etherpad tomorrow and share with you folks | 19:21 |
| SergeyLukjanov2 | jeblair, I think so ;) | 19:21 |
| fungi | SergeyLukjanov2: i can get you links to earlier ones if you need examples | 19:21 |
| SergeyLukjanov2 | fungi, it'll be great, thanks! | 19:21 |
| jeblair | #topic Publish python-jenkins 0.3.3 (last release without pbr) tarball to pypi. (zaro) | 19:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Publish python-jenkins 0.3.3 (last release without pbr) tarball to pypi. (zaro) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:21 | |
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| jeblair | zaro: so 0.3.3 fixes the issues with 0.3.1? | 19:22 |
| zaro | yes, it does. | 19:22 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair Publish python-jenkins 0.3.3 (last release without pbr) tarball to pypi | 19:22 |
| zaro | last one without pbr | 19:22 |
| fungi | that's a manual upload too, right? | 19:23 |
| jeblair | fungi: yup | 19:23 |
| jeblair | previous one had a bug, so sort of defeated the purpose :( | 19:23 |
| jeblair | (of having a published version before we went and changed _lots_ of stuff) | 19:24 |
| zaro | cool, end of topic i guess. | 19:24 |
| jeblair | #topic Administering third party ci gerrit accounts: setting http passwords (anteaya) | 19:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Administering third party ci gerrit accounts: setting http passwords (anteaya) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:24 | |
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| anteaya | hi | 19:24 |
| anteaya | so there was an email thread | 19:25 |
| jeblair | #link | 19:25 |
| jeblair | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2014-August/001685.html | 19:25 |
| anteaya | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2014-August/001685.html | 19:25 |
| anteaya | thanks | 19:25 |
| jeblair | nope, you got it right :) | 19:25 |
| anteaya | and there is the ability for gerrit admins to set an http password for third party cis | 19:25 |
| anteaya | vmware would like a password | 19:25 |
| jeblair | why? | 19:25 |
| anteaya | from the email: We are looking to use some of the Gerrit REST API operations that require authentication | 19:26 |
| jeblair | which ones? | 19:26 |
| anteaya | that is all I have for the why | 19:26 |
| anteaya | ryan was going to try to be here at the meeting | 19:26 |
| anteaya | I have forgotten his irc nick | 19:26 |
| anteaya | I don't know which ones | 19:26 |
| anteaya | :( | 19:26 |
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| zaro | you don't need admin to create http password. | 19:27 |
| anteaya | for third party ci? | 19:27 |
| anteaya | which don't have gui access? | 19:27 |
| zaro | i believe account holder can do themself | 19:27 |
| anteaya | via ssh? | 19:27 |
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| zaro | ohh, sorry. didn't realize no UI access. then no they cannot. | 19:27 |
| jeblair | i don't think there's a good way for us to set those without actually knowing the passwords. and i don't want us to become the password reset help desk any more than we already are. | 19:28 |
| anteaya | okay yes, so they can't by themselves | 19:28 |
| anteaya | kk | 19:28 |
| jeblair | so i think there's a pretty high bar for deciding this is a good idea | 19:28 |
| * anteaya nods | 19:28 | |
| fungi | especially when they can just use a normal account to make rest api queries | 19:28 |
| SergeyLukjanov2 | ++ | 19:28 |
| jeblair | also, third-party ci only needs to do two things authenticated, and ssh access permits both | 19:28 |
| clarkb | and the ssh api exposes all the things too | 19:28 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ++ | 19:29 |
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| anteaya | okay so I will share the meeting logs in response to the email and if he needs more air time hopefully he will attend in future | 19:29 |
| anteaya | thanks | 19:29 |
| anteaya | I'm done | 19:29 |
| jeblair | anteaya: thank you! | 19:29 |
| jeblair | #topic Bug Day proposal: August 19th, alt suggestions: August 26th, September 9th (pleia2) | 19:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bug Day proposal: August 19th, alt suggestions: August 26th, September 9th (pleia2) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:29 | |
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| pleia2 | so I noticed our bug numbers creeping up and tossed some dates out | 19:30 |
| Ajaeger | FYI, September 9th the Documentation team will do a Bug day - but that's not a conflict IMHO | 19:30 |
| pleia2 | (skipped labor day week) | 19:30 |
| clarkb | next week is hard for me particularly with the trusty and tox switches coming up | 19:30 |
| clarkb | I would +1 the 26th | 19:30 |
| fungi | 26th sounds great to me | 19:30 |
| anteaya | I'm better on the 26th | 19:31 |
| jeblair | ++26 | 19:31 |
| pleia2 | great | 19:31 |
| SergeyLukjanov2 | ++26 | 19:31 |
| pleia2 | should we incorporate storyboard projects into this bug day? | 19:31 |
| jeblair | mordred: do you think we'll be able to import by then? | 19:31 |
| pleia2 | I don't actually know anything about storyboard's API for writing a script (it has one, right? :)) | 19:31 |
| mordred | yes | 19:31 |
| mordred | jeblair: I'm finishing off teh import script right now | 19:31 |
| fungi | do we normally incorporate anything besides the openstack-ci project bugs? | 19:31 |
| mordred | https://review.openstack.org/113624 fwiw | 19:31 |
| pleia2 | fungi: well, storyboard has some of our projects that were origially openstack-ci on launchpad | 19:32 |
| fungi | pleia2: oh, yeah makes sense then | 19:32 |
| clarkb | it might be a good way to kick the tires on storyboard too | 19:32 |
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| pleia2 | clarkb: that's what I'm thinking | 19:32 |
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| pleia2 | I haven't actually done anything with storyboard aside from reading it :) | 19:32 |
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| fungi | storyboard tire-kicking day ;) | 19:32 |
| nibalizer | pleia2: i created a test story | 19:33 |
| mordred | well, krotscheck and I will both be not here | 19:33 |
| nibalizer | then found out you cant delete them :/ | 19:33 |
| pleia2 | nibalizer: haha, oops | 19:33 |
| rcarrill` | nice | 19:33 |
| anteaya | oh yeah krotscheck will be honeymooning | 19:33 |
| krtaylor | thats good to know | 19:33 |
| pleia2 | ok, so maybe bump storyboard tire kicking until next time | 19:33 |
| krotscheck | which is slightly different from mooninhoneys | 19:33 |
| anteaya | :D | 19:33 |
| rcarrill` | lulz | 19:33 |
| pleia2 | krotscheck: also, congrats :) | 19:34 |
| jeblair | i think we can kick storyboard's tires | 19:34 |
| rcarrill` | yeah, congrats | 19:34 |
| krotscheck | Well, y’all can hit as many bugs as you want to, and file them as stories, just don’t expect much movement on them. | 19:34 |
| fungi | i'm fine with it, as long as the tires don't kick back | 19:34 |
| pleia2 | alright | 19:34 |
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| jeblair | i'm not interested in using launchpad anymore for infra bugs; it's time to start really using storyboard | 19:34 |
| pleia2 | all the bugs for when krotscheck returns \o/ | 19:34 |
| mordred | jeblair: script almost done! | 19:34 |
| mordred | krotscheck: btw - I found a bug in StoryTags | 19:34 |
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| pleia2 | so is there a way to query storyboard from a script? | 19:35 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ++ we haev to switch at some point and every time I have used storyboard I have been happy | 19:35 |
| rcarrill` | curl? | 19:35 |
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| jeblair | #agreed bug day august 26 (and bugs will be imported into storyboard by then) | 19:35 |
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| ttx | pleia2: curl would work, although i would love if someone would work on python bindings | 19:36 |
| mordred | pleia2: python-storyboardclient is a TDL item | 19:36 |
| pleia2 | ok | 19:36 |
| pleia2 | well, I'll come up with something | 19:36 |
| ttx | can't be worse than launchpadlib anyway :) | 19:36 |
| rcarrill` | haha | 19:36 |
| rcarrill` | indeed | 19:36 |
| jeblair | pleia2: thanks! | 19:37 |
| krotscheck | Oh man, I’m glad I created a sorting patch :) | 19:37 |
| mordred | ZOMG launchpadlib | 19:37 |
| jeblair | #topic Refactor of artifact upload scripts (rcarrillocruz) | 19:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Refactor of artifact upload scripts (rcarrillocruz) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:37 | |
| rcarrill` | that's me | 19:37 |
| ttx | well, to be fair launchpadlib is decent. It's launchpad APi that is horrible :P | 19:37 |
| rcarrill` | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/109816/ | 19:37 |
| rcarrill` | i've been chatting with fungi and clarkb about this | 19:37 |
| rcarrill` | and also chatted with jeblair at mid-cycle sprint | 19:37 |
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| rcarrill` | i'd like to get consensus on the change | 19:37 |
| rcarrill` | should it be a refactor for just java things? | 19:38 |
| rcarrill` | or are we open to have a generic framework/script to uplod all sorts of artifacts? | 19:38 |
| rcarrill` | pypi | 19:38 |
| rcarrill` | wheels | 19:38 |
| rcarrill` | jenkins | 19:38 |
| rcarrill` | maven | 19:38 |
| rcarrill` | ... | 19:38 |
| jeblair | rcarrill`: as i recall, it was mostly the java stuff that you needed to consolidate for your use-case, right? so either will work for you? | 19:38 |
| jeblair | consolidate and genericize | 19:39 |
| rcarrill` | yes, but clarkb says he's not very keen on having a monolithic script for all kind of artifacts | 19:39 |
| rcarrill` | i.e. not -t ARTIFACT_TYPE | 19:39 |
| clarkb | my opposition to doing everything in a giant complicated script is that we have been very unixy so far and makinga one size fits all script is not how anything else works there | 19:39 |
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| fungi | rcarrill`: i think most of those other artifact types use widely varying tools/commands to prepare and upload, and the script wouldn't really do much in common ultimately | 19:39 |
| jesusaurus | i agree with clarkb that we should have the One Way to do maven, then a different One Way to do pypi | 19:39 |
| jeblair | clarkb: but there's some commonality in the download part yeah? | 19:40 |
| fungi | for most of them, the bulk of the duplication we'd avoid would be in the license boilerplate comment block | 19:40 |
| jeblair | clarkb: i'm guessing you'll say "have a download script, and N upload scripts" :) | 19:40 |
| rcarrill` | yes | 19:40 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yes, the download part has some commonality. the difference are in the upload to $repo | 19:40 |
| clarkb | jeblair: that would be fine | 19:40 |
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| rcarrill` | to be fair, i think we could have a common artifact upload thingy , but bash is not the way to go | 19:40 |
| Ajaeger | Is there a way to create a library that can be included for some common functions? | 19:40 |
| rcarrill` | so, imho we could just have my change for java stuff | 19:40 |
| rcarrill` | and then we can work on something on later that is more flexible than bash | 19:40 |
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| fungi | yeah, it seems like maven nexus and jenkins-ci are probably similar enough that they benefit | 19:41 |
| clarkb | fungi: they are the same thing. the only differences are nexus location and filenames | 19:41 |
| rcarrill` | agreed on having the change on just nexus, and upload either java package OR jenkins package? that way no point of differentiating if the stuff is jenkins of java | 19:41 |
| rcarrill` | clarkb: ^, yup, i agree with you | 19:42 |
| jeblair | Ajaeger: yes, that would be possible | 19:42 |
| rcarrill` | after our chat last week, i give you that | 19:42 |
| jeblair | (so the download part could be 'sourced') | 19:42 |
| fungi | rcarrill`: yeah, could probably branch on the filename extension and not need explicit artifact type parameters even | 19:42 |
| zaro | not exactly the same, jenkins-ci is artifactory while maven central is nexus. | 19:42 |
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| rcarrill` | but curl one-liner would work the same, not zaro? | 19:43 |
| zaro | for download only i think | 19:43 |
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| zaro | for maven central (nexus) they employ a two step upload process. | 19:43 |
| rcarrill` | zaro: could I work with you on that? | 19:43 |
| zaro | yes. | 19:43 |
| rcarrill` | it's a PITA to open an account myself for testing | 19:43 |
| rcarrill` | we could just use openstack-infra account for that | 19:44 |
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| zaro | you'll need the password. | 19:44 |
| rcarrill` | iirc, oss sonatype site requires an approval process to get an account | 19:44 |
| rcarrill` | it's not something immediate to get | 19:44 |
| fungi | rcarrill`: right, you have to open a jira ticket | 19:44 |
| zaro | just do it! | 19:44 |
| fungi | and then wait for them to process it | 19:45 |
| rcarrill` | anyways, overall the change looks good? | 19:45 |
| rcarrill` | pulling the -t switches | 19:45 |
| fungi | (not entirely unlike our third-party ci service account request workflow) | 19:45 |
| rcarrill` | and just copying .hpi / .jar artifacts | 19:45 |
| rcarrill` | ? | 19:45 |
| zaro | now that i think about it. i don't think it will work for maven central. | 19:45 |
| zaro | you need to upload then do another request to "approve" to actually publish it. | 19:46 |
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| zaro | anyways. i'll review again. | 19:46 |
| clarkb | rcarrill`: ya overall it is fine. I think we should just rip out the branch logic | 19:46 |
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| rcarrill` | cool | 19:46 |
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| jeblair | #topic Process to deprecate drivers/plugins and their corresponding CIs (emagana) | 19:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Process to deprecate drivers/plugins and their corresponding CIs (emagana) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:47 | |
| zaro | ohh, i agree with clark there as well. | 19:47 |
| emagana | hi | 19:47 |
| rcarrill` | we have a deal then | 19:47 |
| emagana | Just wondering if there is a process in place to deal with the plugins/drivers that are being deprecated | 19:47 |
| rcarrill` | zaro: will make another patchset and ping you then | 19:48 |
| emagana | as well as the process to deprecate them if they do not have a CI | 19:48 |
| jeblair | emagana: what plugins/drivers are being deprecated? | 19:48 |
| emagana | in Neutron: OVS, LB, NXOS | 19:48 |
| fungi | emagana: that's more a decision on the part of the projects in which those drivers exist or integrate | 19:48 |
| emagana | jeblair: maybe more | 19:48 |
| fungi | so in that case, neutron | 19:48 |
| emagana | fungi: understood! | 19:48 |
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| fungi | if there are third-party ci systems which correspond with them and are being taken offline as well, we appreciate a heads up so we can disable their service accounts | 19:49 |
| jeblair | yep, and the wiki pages for them should be updated too | 19:49 |
| emagana | fungi: That is the kind of guidence I am looking for | 19:49 |
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| emagana | I am planning to run an audit for the plugins/drivers CI | 19:49 |
| emagana | I know, I will not have many friends | 19:50 |
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| emagana | The idea is to be sure that all drivers/plugins are being tested properly | 19:50 |
| clarkb | emagana: ++ | 19:50 |
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| jeblair | emagana: that would be awesome; thanks | 19:51 |
| krtaylor | emagana, what is the output of the audit? | 19:51 |
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| emagana | I will update NeutronPolicies for Plugin and Drivers with the results: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron_Plugins_and_Drivers | 19:51 |
| krtaylor | emagana, understood | 19:51 |
| emagana | krtaylor: ensure quality! and deprecated anything that is not being properly tested | 19:52 |
| krtaylor | emagana, feel free to bring this up in the next third-party meeting as well, we can spread the news | 19:52 |
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| emagana | Thanks! | 19:52 |
| emagana | ok, will provide results next week | 19:52 |
| jeblair | #topic Open discussion | 19:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:52 | |
| emagana | that is all I wanted to share about this | 19:52 |
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| jedimike | o/ | 19:52 |
| jeblair | anteaya: what's the status of account renames? | 19:53 |
| emagana | jeblair: I have a question about Multi-node testing | 19:53 |
| anteaya | right now I am hoping either you or someone else can help me append CI to the end of them all | 19:53 |
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| jedimike | I have a small nodepool feature I'd like to run by you all | 19:53 |
| anteaya | then we can merge teh js patch | 19:53 |
| jeblair | anteaya: can you prepare an etherpad with a list of the names? | 19:53 |
| anteaya | after I get gerrit permissions then go through them and chance the name | 19:53 |
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| anteaya | jeblair: oh goodness I have been working on it for 3 months | 19:53 |
| jeblair | anteaya: yeah, that's too long. i'm ready to just name them myself. | 19:54 |
| clarkb | anteaya: I think we need a clear old name to new name map | 19:54 |
| anteaya | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/automated-gerrit-account-naming-format | 19:54 |
| anteaya | jeblair: go for it | 19:54 |
| clarkb | then whoever can do it. | 19:54 |
| anteaya | if you want it I will support you and clean up afterward | 19:54 |
| jedimike | We've been having some problems with nodepool and the ready-script recently. Our ready-scripts do some nice things like update git repos, set hostnames, but because we generate our images every night, they're not absolutely essential. | 19:55 |
| jeblair | i will tend to give them _very bad names_ | 19:55 |
| jedimike | So we'd like to have an option that lets us tolerate errors in the ready-script, so if it fails to run, the node is still used. | 19:55 |
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| jeblair | like "Unknown Function Third Party CI" | 19:55 |
| anteaya | jeblair: there are no names they will like | 19:55 |
| clarkb | jedimike: the whole point of a ready script imo is to make sure the node is ready. if it fails the node is not ready. | 19:56 |
| clarkb | jedimike: tolerating failures should happen in the script | 19:56 |
| emagana | jeblair: During the Neutron mid-cycle sprint in Minnesota, we discussed the need for having a Multi-node testing environment, specially for DVR (Distributed Virtual Router). So, I created a spec in Infra: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/106495/ | 19:56 |
| anteaya | jeblair: do it, they will yell at me and I will take it | 19:56 |
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| anteaya | and I don't have to keep thinking about how to make everyone happy, because I can't | 19:56 |
| jeblair | jedimike: yeah, i think updating git repos is probably not something that should be in a ready script | 19:56 |
| jedimike | clarkb, yes, but sometimes nodepool just isn't running the script, and because it doesn't log anything useful when it fails to run the ready script, we've had days where no jobs are running and we don't know why, and our scripts run fine as far as we can see | 19:57 |
| emagana | jeblair: I just wanted to know if you have this cover by a different spec.. anteaya recommended to bring this question here | 19:57 |
| jedimike | I have a patch currently in review to fix that though, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/113287/ | 19:57 |
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| jeblair | jedimike: well, "just not running the script" is a pretty clear bug :) | 19:57 |
| fungi | jedimike: we do it in our prep scripts instead, and then pull whatever has changed that day at the start of jobs | 19:57 |
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| fungi | rather than when the node goes ready | 19:57 |
| jeblair | jedimike: part of the reasoning for that is that nodes can sit in ready state for a long time | 19:57 |
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| jedimike | i see | 19:57 |
| clarkb | emagana: there isn't another spec. afazekas is just doing the work | 19:57 |
| jeblair | so if you want something to be current, doing it at the start of the job is the best place | 19:58 |
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| clarkb | emagana: it is something that was made possible months ago by a new nodepool featuer and no one did anything with it until afazekas stepped up | 19:58 |
| jeblair | jedimike: ++ on better logging | 19:58 |
| emagana | clarkb: should we abandon the spec that I created and just let the work continue? | 19:58 |
| jedimike | jeblair, yeah, it's caused headaches that the scripts look fine, run fine when we run them, but nodepool just threw away stdout and stderr so we can't see what happened | 19:59 |
| emagana | clarkb: I think afazekas could point his work to this spec | 19:59 |
| clarkb | emagana: I don't necessarily thing it needs abandoning as it does spell out the neutron use case. But I don't think the spec was required to start the work | 19:59 |
| clarkb | emagana: yup | 19:59 |
| jedimike | so, I'll make a note to look at our ready scripts and see if they can be more minimal too, thanks | 19:59 |
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| anteaya | time | 20:00 |
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| jeblair | thanks all! | 20:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 12 20:00:32 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| emagana | clarkb: Ok, then I will encourage the whole team to review it. link# https://review.openstack.org/#/c/106495/ | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-08-12-19.02.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-08-12-19.02.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-08-12-19.02.log.html | 20:00 |
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| ttx | Anyone here for the TC meeting ? | 20:00 |
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| eglynn | o/ | 20:01 |
| russellb | hello | 20:01 |
| markmc | hey | 20:01 |
| devananda | o/ | 20:01 |
| jeblair | o/ | 20:01 |
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| ttx | annegentle, mikal, mordred, vishy, markmcclain, jaypipes, sdague, dhellmann : around ? | 20:01 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:01 |
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| ttx | I think sdague is in vacation | 20:01 |
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| annegentle | o/ | 20:01 |
| jaypipes | o/ | 20:02 |
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| dhellmann | o/ | 20:02 |
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| ttx | OK, we have quorum, let's start | 20:02 |
| bswartz1 | hi | 20:02 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 12 20:02:14 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| bswartz1 | stupid wireless issues | 20:02 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:02 |
| ttx | The agenda for today: | 20:02 |
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| esker | various Manila interested parties here as well.. | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
| ttx | dolphm: around? | 20:02 |
| ttx | #topic Identity program scope and rename, take 2 | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Identity program scope and rename, take 2 (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
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| ttx | We had that discussion two meetings ago, it's still a bit stalled | 20:03 |
| ttx | It's in two parts | 20:03 |
| ttx | 1. Expand scope of the Identity program to include auditing (https://review.openstack.org/109664) | 20:03 |
| ttx | So this one hasn't reached the majority threshold yet, although it has enough votes to pass a simple vote | 20:03 |
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| ttx | It's about moving pyCADF to keystone program and tweaking the mission to reflect that | 20:03 |
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| ttx | There haven't been enough votes cast on this one, but I don't feel we should block it any longer. | 20:03 |
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| ttx | especially with both PTLs involved approving it | 20:04 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, the teams involved with that code agree to the move | 20:04 |
| ttx | So I'm calling for final vote on that one -- Please vote on this, otherwise it will pass just because it has 5 +1s and more +1s than -1s | 20:04 |
| devananda | I'm curious how this changes the requirement for projects to integrate with keystone | 20:04 |
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| ttx | (I probably won't pick up the votes before tomorrow though) | 20:04 |
| devananda | do all projects now have to integrate with pycadf, if it is part of keystone? | 20:04 |
| russellb | it's not part of keystone :) | 20:04 |
| russellb | it's part of the identity program (proposed) | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | devananda: AIUI, some keystone middleware will use it | 20:05 |
| ttx | they are just taking over maintenance | 20:05 |
| zaneb | russellb: "Identity:codename: Keystone" | 20:05 |
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| russellb | zaneb: heh, fair | 20:05 |
| annegentle | devananda: well, swift already has ways to be used without keystone | 20:05 |
| ttx | The second part is: Rename the "Identity" program (https://review.openstack.org/108739) | 20:05 |
| ttx | Now this part is not nearly as popular. | 20:05 |
| annegentle | devananda: but yeah, it's a good question, are there dependencies inherited? | 20:05 |
| ttx | My take on it is that it's encumbered with the various ways we reuse program names for the moment | 20:06 |
| devananda | annegentle: right | 20:06 |
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| ttx | So I would rather table any program rename until we have come to a point where a program short name really no longer applies to a program | 20:06 |
| ttx | In this case it's close enough, I think | 20:06 |
| ttx | and we have more pressing issues to address | 20:06 |
| annegentle | program renames are really tough for user-facing docs | 20:06 |
| ttx | So I think it makes sense to abandon this one for the moment | 20:06 |
| jaypipes | ttx: ++ | 20:06 |
| annegentle | so I'm +1 | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | maybe we should just use uuids instead of names | 20:06 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: frowny! | 20:06 |
| devananda | ttx: ++ | 20:07 |
| ttx | so unless it magically gets 7 +1s oevrnight, i'll abandon this one | 20:07 |
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| mikal | Hi, sorry I'm here | 20:07 |
| ttx | other comments on that before we move on? | 20:07 |
| annegentle | I'm sorry you're here too :) | 20:07 |
| zaneb | dhellmann: maybe we should just use the code names and stop with the parallel naming :) | 20:07 |
| annegentle | just kidding mikal | 20:07 |
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| dhellmann | zaneb: heh | 20:08 |
| ttx | zaneb: I'll work on that as soon as we have all the other problems in openstack solved | 20:08 |
| ttx | should be sometimes next month | 20:08 |
| annegentle | zaneb: doit! | 20:08 |
| annegentle | ttx: I like your timeline | 20:08 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:08 |
| ttx | so, about that... | 20:08 |
| ttx | #topic Upcoming graduation reviews & future of the integrated release | 20:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Upcoming graduation reviews & future of the integrated release (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:08 | |
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| ttx | we have a busy schedule ahead, and I want to talk about how we can meet our deadlines | 20:08 |
| ttx | We basically need to have Kilo contents wrapped up by September 16, so that we can plan the design summit AND get the official PTL election process started | 20:09 |
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| ttx | That leaves 5 meetings to cover all graduation reviews. And one of them falls during Burning Man week | 20:09 |
| ttx | If we don't count the recently-incubated projects and the current padawans, we have ironic, marconi, barbican to consider for addition | 20:09 |
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| jeblair | how many people here will not be here during burning man week? | 20:09 |
| ttx | During the same time we have a couple of new program / incubation requests to wrap up (Rally, Manila) | 20:09 |
| devananda | ttx: regarding that, this is my last TC meeting until 9/9. probably ditto for mordred. | 20:09 |
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| mordred | yup | 20:10 |
| ttx | devananda: so now it's burning man 3-week ? | 20:10 |
| * anteaya notes the election process will start earlier than usual due to the new questions feature this round | 20:10 | |
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| mordred | ttx: well, devananda and I go early and stay late because we feed people | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | anteaya: "questions"? | 20:10 |
| devananda | ttx: yes. well. it's two weeks, but +travel and the meeting falling on tuesday | 20:10 |
| ttx | we also need to have some serious discussion on what we want to do with the integrated release | 20:10 |
| anteaya | but timelines for nominations and so on will be teh same | 20:10 |
| ttx | and we may want to have that discussion *before* considering those graduations | 20:10 |
| ttx | Do you think we are on track, or do we need to add a few more meetings to clear things up ? | 20:11 |
| jaypipes | ++ | 20:11 |
| devananda | ttx: I would *really* like to have that discussion without it side tracking to the (also very important) discussion on how to prioritize reviews | 20:11 |
| anteaya | dhellmann: we talked aabout submission and curation of questions for tc candidates, for improved voter participation | 20:11 |
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| dhellmann | anteaya: ah, yeah, I just forgot | 20:11 |
| mordred | devananda: ++ | 20:11 |
| anteaya | dhellmann: it is on my timeline to implment | 20:11 |
| anteaya | dhellmann: np | 20:11 |
| jaypipes | ttx: personally, the "wtf is the integrated release and why do we care so much about new programs" discussion needs to happen ASAP, IMO. | 20:11 |
| mordred | jaypipes: + | 20:11 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:11 |
| mordred | I mean | 20:11 |
| ttx | and I know mordred wants to be part of that one | 20:11 |
| ttx | so how do we solve this | 20:11 |
| mordred | there are two different aspects - one of them is "how do we scale our resources" - but the other is "how do we ship good things" | 20:12 |
| ttx | I think it warrants its own meeting | 20:12 |
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| markmcclain | would it make sense to call a single topic meeting? | 20:12 |
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| russellb | yes, its own meeting makes sense | 20:12 |
| jaypipes | ttx: as do I. this week, preferably. | 20:12 |
| mordred | and I think they're both important, and I'm happy to show up at additional times myself | 20:12 |
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| annegentle | devananda: good point about separating | 20:12 |
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| ttx | to discuss where we want to go and how much drastic measures are warranted | 20:12 |
| markmc | single topic meeting sounds good | 20:12 |
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| russellb | this week? | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | +1 to another meeting | 20:12 |
| devananda | ++ | 20:12 |
| * dhellmann never thought he'd say that | 20:12 | |
| mordred | dhellmann: right? | 20:12 |
| annegentle | never hear me say this, but yes let's have an extra meeting | 20:12 |
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| ttx | mordred: if it's not this week, you will miss it? | 20:13 |
| jaypipes | russellb: just cuz devananda and mordred are out until 9/9 | 20:13 |
| jeblair | i've been away for a few days; is there something very urgent i need to catch up on? | 20:13 |
| russellb | jaypipes: no no, i'm agreeing that let's knock it out asap | 20:13 |
| ttx | I guess I can find time out of my roof to make that happen this week | 20:13 |
| jeblair | i feel like the urgency of this topic is universally agreed to be high and i'm not sure why :) | 20:13 |
| jaypipes | jeblair: reading the whole "the future of the integrated release" ML thread... | 20:13 |
| ttx | otherwise monday sounded like a good idea | 20:13 |
| annegentle | I feel the urgency too | 20:13 |
| markmc | jeblair, I've been away too; just the thread AFAIK | 20:13 |
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| jeblair | jaypipes: thanks, i'll put at at the top of my list. | 20:13 |
| mordred | ttx: deva and I could also figure something out if it's next monday, early next tuesday, or late the tuesday 3 weeks away | 20:13 |
| annegentle | and it's only Tues/Wed. | 20:13 |
| jaypipes | jeblair: it's a meaty one... | 20:13 |
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| russellb | i just want it discussed and out of the way, so it doesn't get in the way of all of the project consideraions we need to do | 20:14 |
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| jaypipes | russellb: agreed. | 20:14 |
| devananda | I would advise against late tuesday 3 weeks away | 20:14 |
| ttx | So I'd propose 19:00 or 20:00 UTC, Monday. If that doesn't work, same hours, this Thursday | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | russellb: + | 20:14 |
| russellb | i don't want several discussions stalled with "but we need to wait until we decide at the future of release discussion" | 20:14 |
| mordred | yes. that would be my least favorite choice | 20:14 |
| devananda | if i'm doing aything, it'll be related to juno3 and feature freeze and nova integration | 20:14 |
| devananda | russellb: ++ | 20:14 |
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| mordred | russellb: ++ | 20:14 |
| ttx | or we do Thursday and keep Monday as a backup extra session | 20:14 |
| devananda | ttx: wfm | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | I like having a backup | 20:15 |
| mordred | it's POSSIBLE this one might be a longer discussion | 20:15 |
| markmcclain | Thurs then Monday would be my preference | 20:15 |
| russellb | any time thursday is fine with me | 20:15 |
| jaypipes | me too. | 20:15 |
| mordred | thurs then monday ++ | 20:15 |
| * jaypipes will make time. | 20:15 | |
| jeblair | thurs or mon is fine | 20:15 |
| ttx | I guess I can make Thursday work, but 19:00 UTC would have my preference then | 20:15 |
| ttx | but I know thaat makes it difficult for mikal | 20:15 |
| * mordred willing to show up whatever time is good for mikal and ttx | 20:15 | |
| russellb | same | 20:15 |
| annegentle | yeah me too | 20:15 |
| ttx | mordred: there is unfortunately no such good time | 20:16 |
| mordred | I know | 20:16 |
| mikal | I will come whenever | 20:16 |
| mikal | This time is about the earliest I would voluntarily do | 20:16 |
| markmcclain | happy show up when needed | 20:16 |
| ttx | it's either very early for him or very early for me :) | 20:16 |
| mikal | (Its 6:15am here) | 20:16 |
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| ttx | if there was a second "good time" we'd rotate :) | 20:16 |
| anteaya | Wednesday at 1800 utc in this channel looks free | 20:16 |
| * mordred hands mikal a recently blow-dried kitten | 20:16 | |
| russellb | achievement unlocked: have a meeting about meetings | 20:16 |
| mikal | mordred: thanks? | 20:16 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:16 |
| ttx | 18.00 is really too early, not even convenient for me | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | russellb: heh | 20:16 |
| mikal | So yeah, this time slot on some other day of the week works | 20:16 |
| markmc | ttx, do you have a sense of concrete suggestions from the thread that there might be reasonable consensus around? | 20:17 |
| ttx | Thursday, 19:00 in #openstack-meeting-3 | 20:17 |
| russellb | markmc: i certainly don't | 20:17 |
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| markmc | ttx, agree with devananda that the thread seemed to have been derailed from issues directly related to adding new projects | 20:17 |
| ttx | markmc: not really. i want the first meeting to get people to shout problems and proposed solutions | 20:17 |
| anteaya | thursday at 2000 utc all meeting channels open | 20:17 |
| ttx | then use some time to digest them, and if we think there can be convergence, call another meeting to come up with something | 20:18 |
| anteaya | wednesday at 2000 -alt and -3 open | 20:18 |
| ttx | everyone OK for Thursday, 19:00 in #openstack-meeting-3 ? | 20:18 |
| markmc | ttx, just wondering whether we can make real progress on list in preparation for the meeting | 20:18 |
| annegentle | is 19:00 UTC now? | 20:18 |
| mordred | we may just have to bring our own brains | 20:18 |
| * annegentle asks the dumb time questions | 20:18 | |
| mikal | Yep | 20:18 |
| ttx | annegentle: now is 20:18 UTC | 20:18 |
| ttx | 20:19 | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: 3:00 Eastern | 20:19 |
| ttx | :) | 20:19 |
| annegentle | Got it, thanks | 20:19 |
| jaypipes | 4 eastern. | 20:19 |
| annegentle | heh hm | 20:19 |
| ttx | #info Extra TC meeting on Thursday, 19:00 in #openstack-meeting-3 | 20:19 |
| jaypipes | oh, 1900UTC, yeah, 3 eastern | 20:19 |
| devananda | markmc: i think it was derailed from the topic of culling fail[ed/ing] projects, which is related to not adding new projects. | 20:20 |
| ttx | #info specific agenda: The need for change in integrated release for Kilo | 20:20 |
| ttx | (or absence thereof) | 20:20 |
| ttx | OK, next topic | 20:20 |
| devananda | markmc: and that the litmus we use when deciding to add new projects should be mroe than just "meets QA and release process standards" | 20:20 |
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| russellb | devananda: the requirements list is already quite a bit more than that | 20:20 |
| ttx | Feel free to fire warning shots on that ML thread | 20:21 |
| * dhellmann hopes anyone with specific goals makes them clear in that thread before thursday | 20:21 | |
| russellb | i'd rather concrete suggestions / discussion than warning shots | 20:21 |
| ttx | although don't expect me to particiapte that much, I still need to rpetend I'm taking 3 days ofgf | 20:21 |
| markmc | devananda, actually, that felt like a slight derailment from the original topic - that we're hitting scaling limits as we add new projects | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | russellb: +1 | 20:21 |
| ttx | russellb: yay, getting a bit more info on everyone's position on this could help | 20:22 |
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| ttx | ok, we need to move on | 20:22 |
| ttx | #topic Propose Manila for Incubation (initial discussion) | 20:22 |
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| mordred | markmc: I thought that the original topic presented the general issue in such a way that that seemed like the one and only topic at hand | 20:22 |
| bswartz | I'm still here -- wireless appears to have stabilized... | 20:22 |
| mordred | markmc: but I can try to express that better on the list | 20:22 |
| ttx | bswartz: o/ | 20:22 |
| ttx | The program application is at: | 20:22 |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/111149 | 20:22 |
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| ttx | And the incubation application at: | 20:23 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/113583/ | 20:23 |
| ttx | Manila was considered and application was rejected/delayed in the past | 20:23 |
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| bswartz | in November 2013 to be exact | 20:23 |
| mikal | ttx: so, the disconnect here is strange to me. We have an issue of general policy (are we too big) which we've deferred, but we're not discussing an issue of specific policy (should we become bigger by adding a thing) | 20:23 |
| mikal | ttx: shouldn't this conversation happen after the first one? | 20:23 |
| ttx | Incubation application has a pretty good account on what was said then | 20:23 |
| ttx | mikal: yes, at least final decision needs to | 20:24 |
| mikal | s/not/now/ | 20:24 |
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| devananda | ... what mikal said | 20:24 |
| bswartz | yeah we included an appendix in the incubation application answering questions raised last time | 20:24 |
| ttx | but I figured we could still have a few early questions | 20:24 |
| mikal | Nothing against Manilla | 20:24 |
| ttx | If you feel like this is useless, we can skip though | 20:24 |
| russellb | this is what i was afraid of ... deadlock until the other is resolved | 20:24 |
| * jaypipes recommends skipping until we answer the bigger questions. | 20:25 | |
| mikal | Useless is a bit strong | 20:25 |
| mikal | Well, we could talk it through but defer our decision | 20:25 |
| esker | ttx: the summary you'd issued from the November discussion on the topic "We would like to have Manila in OpenStack one day, needs more maturation, solve multi-tenant concerns and get devstack-gate integration before revisiting incubation request" | 20:25 |
| mikal | That gives scope for if we have questions which need time to answer | 20:25 |
| russellb | we need to move swiftly on the "big questions" so we don't leave all of these projects hanging though | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | well, bswartz, how much code is manila still sharing with cinder? are you copying stuff back and forth there? | 20:25 |
| russellb | that's not terribly fair to them | 20:25 |
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| annegentle | I do want to hear about cinder collab and so on | 20:25 |
| ttx | How about bswartz quickly introduces the recent progress they made, but we don't judge yet, and move tyo next topic ? | 20:25 |
| bswartz | dhellmann: no, we don't copy anything -- the common stuff is in oslo | 20:25 |
| annegentle | is jgriffith around? | 20:25 |
| ttx | So that he didn't come here for nothing ? | 20:25 |
| bswartz | leftover overlapping code is gradually being removed and replaced with oslo stuff | 20:25 |
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| dhellmann | bswartz: so after that initial fork, you haven't updated anything based on ongoing work? | 20:26 |
| russellb | yes, i'd love to hear about progress | 20:26 |
| bswartz | dhellmann: no we're not messing with cinder code at all -- we have everything we needed from the original fork | 20:26 |
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| dhellmann | bswartz: that's not a bad thing, I'm just trying to understand the split, because a lot of the application emphasized how similar the architectures of the two projects were, and I wonder if there should be more code shared | 20:27 |
| devananda | bswartz: how much duplication of code is there now between cinder and manila? and what portion of that should be oslo'ified in the fullness of time? | 20:27 |
| bswartz | the only sharing we envision at this time is through oslo | 20:27 |
| bswartz | we'll push to move more common stuff into oslo ofc | 20:27 |
| markmc | devananda, dhellmann, could ask the same question about cinder/nova | 20:27 |
| esker | with all due respect, we've engaged on a number of occasions in the past and made major changes to Manila in response... in good faith. It seems poor form to change the game on us yet again. | 20:28 |
| bswartz | the duplication is fairly low at this point -- mostly not we inherit the architecture, in terms of the services and their relationships | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | ok, well, oslo isn't the only way for you to share code if it's just the 2 projects using it, so I'm worried that the oslo team will have to agree to adopt something that the 2 teams could be managing together without us | 20:28 |
| bswartz | mostly now* | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | markmc: yes, indeed | 20:28 |
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| dhellmann | but it's good to know that oslo is on your radar, in any case :-) | 20:28 |
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| bswartz | as for a general update on our progress, we have many more vendor involved now, and even more asking about how to get involved | 20:29 |
| mikal | Do those vendor drivers all implement a similar level of functionality? | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | do you envision having third-party testing like some of the other vendor-heavy projects? | 20:29 |
| bswartz | a good bit of work went into satisfying specific requirements (like the gate integration, docs, etc) late last year | 20:29 |
| mikal | How granular is the functionality in fact? | 20:29 |
| russellb | #link http://stackalytics.com/?release=all&project_type=all&module=manila | 20:29 |
| bswartz | since then we've been working on new features and broader driver support | 20:29 |
| jaypipes | bswartz: Looks to me that https://github.com/stackforge/python-manilaclient's README is still referring verbatim to the cinderclient's README. Just FYI... | 20:29 |
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| bswartz | regarding third-party testing, we plan to replicate the approach cinder is taking | 20:30 |
| markmc | #link http://stackalytics.com/?project_type=all&module=manila&release=all&metric=commits | 20:30 |
| markmc | russellb, commits :) | 20:30 |
| bswartz | cinder is hitting some bumps in the road and we're learning a lot for free | 20:30 |
| russellb | markmc: d'oh, i keep forgetting the default change | 20:30 |
| devananda | bswartz: curious, how well does the manila API abstract vendor differences | 20:30 |
| mikal | bswartz: have you considered at all what functionality to require as a minimum from drivers? That might save you some pain later. | 20:31 |
| jeblair | bswartz: what third-party drivers are you including? what first-party drivers? | 20:31 |
| bswartz | devananda: right now it does it very well because the API is quite lowest-common-denominator | 20:31 |
| annegentle | markmc: oh yeah good point | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | wow, 79% from the top company | 20:31 |
| russellb | commits makes the project look a lot less diverse than i thought, though i think we've settled on that being primarily a graduation concern, not incubation | 20:31 |
| devananda | bswartz: nice. do you have auto-generated api docs? | 20:31 |
| bswartz | as we add more cool features keeping the API abstracted will be a challenge but no more than the challenge cinder faces doing this | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | mikal: +1 | 20:31 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: drops to 72% in Juno fwiw | 20:32 |
| bswartz | jeblair: the first-party driver we support is called "generic" and it's software only | 20:32 |
| bswartz | it layers on top of cinder and nova | 20:32 |
| annegentle | devananda: at the incubation request, our requirements for docs are only for contrib docs | 20:32 |
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| jeblair | bswartz: what shared filesystem does it use? | 20:32 |
| esker | NFS | 20:32 |
| bswartz | for third party drivers we have netapp and glusterfs in tree | 20:32 |
| annegentle | devananda: would still like to know the answer, but just noting | 20:32 |
| bswartz | jeblair: ext4 | 20:33 |
| esker | NFS for the generic driver | 20:33 |
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| bswartz | and NFS for the sharing | 20:33 |
| vponomaryov1 | jeblair: nfs and cifs | 20:33 |
| bswartz | actually cifs too | 20:33 |
| jeblair | bswartz: does it provision its own nfs servers, like trove does for databases? | 20:33 |
| devananda | annegentle: if they aren't able to autogenerate docs eg. with sphinxcontrib-pecanwsme, it's going to be more challenging later to retrofit that | 20:33 |
| devananda | annegentle: but yes, i agree, not an incubation req | 20:33 |
| bswartz | and we have several more 3rd party drivers in development or waiting for merge | 20:33 |
| vponomaryov1 | jeblair: yes, depends on driver | 20:33 |
| annegentle | devananda: yes | 20:33 |
| bswartz | jeblair: yes | 20:34 |
| russellb | what's the mapping between VMs, cinder volumes, and NFS shares? | 20:34 |
| jeblair | bswartz: why is glusterfs considered 'third party'? | 20:34 |
| rcallawa | russellb: designate had 68% in juno timeframe as well - http://stackalytics.com/?project_type=all&module=designate-group&release=juno&metric=commits | 20:34 |
| ttx | bswartz: could you link to the nice incubation requirements table you prepared? | 20:34 |
| bswartz | well it's maintained by redhat | 20:34 |
| vponomaryov1 | russellb: nova creates VM with our image where nfs and cifs are preconfigured and uses cinder's volumes as devices for shares | 20:34 |
| bswartz | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/Graduation#New_Program_Requirements | 20:35 |
| russellb | ok, so a VM and volume created per share? | 20:35 |
| ttx | bswartz: thx | 20:35 |
| vponomaryov1 | russellb: volume per share, VM not | 20:35 |
| vponomaryov1 | russellb: VM per tenant network | 20:35 |
| russellb | k | 20:35 |
| jeblair | makes sense | 20:35 |
| russellb | yep | 20:35 |
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| bswartz | vponomaryov1: thanks for jumping in with answers , I can only read/type so fast.. | 20:36 |
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| ttx | OK, any more question for this first round ? We always do those reviews in two rounds fwiw, so this is not really special | 20:36 |
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| russellb | fwiw, this still seems like useful functionality, and i'm hoping we can work through our growing pains without hurting the progress and momentum here | 20:37 |
| jeblair | bswartz: glusterfs seems like a useful bit of free software to support; so i think what i'm trying to get a handle on is how opinionated manila wants to be... what's your criteria for 'third party' drivers vs internal support | 20:37 |
| ttx | I think it gets the elephants out of the room | 20:37 |
| jeblair | russellb: agreed | 20:37 |
| bswartz | we don't want to be opinionated about drivers -- that should be the admins choice | 20:37 |
| annegentle | yep I think it's useful functionality | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | russellb: +1 | 20:37 |
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| bswartz | as PTL my goal is the make the project maximally useful -- not to promote particular backends | 20:38 |
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| markmc | agree this looks like a lot of promising progress, nice work | 20:38 |
| jeblair | i'm also wary of another neutron -- where all the "real action" happens with proprietary hardware and there's very little support for a fully open source solution | 20:38 |
| ttx | From an architecture/position standpoint it seems to fill the same spot as Trove or Designate, provision useful base services | 20:38 |
| annegentle | bswartz: what's your sense of vendor interest vs. user interest? | 20:38 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 20:38 |
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| dhellmann | jeblair: +1 | 20:38 |
| annegentle | jeblair: yeah that's sort of what I mean too... | 20:38 |
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| bswartz | annegentle: we're seeing a big spike in vendor interest, but user interest has been steadily high | 20:39 |
| annegentle | bswartz: ok good to see correct order of cart and horse | 20:39 |
| jeblair | so it's great to see nfs in there as the primary driver; i think exploring why glusterfs didn't make the cut will be interesting | 20:39 |
| esker | user interest has greatly outweighed vendor interest to date. | 20:39 |
| markmcclain | jeblair: +1 | 20:39 |
| devananda | bswartz: how are yhou planning to handle vendor differentiation? | 20:39 |
| ttx | bswartz: also you don't want to be another Cinder -- being the target of a zillion driver request is not that fun | 20:39 |
| markmc | annegentle, you know, that's a great question - I think user interest should be huge in this, but it isn't something other clouds offer ... | 20:39 |
| bswartz | ttx: I actually think that's not unlikely, and we're prepared for it | 20:39 |
| markmc | annegentle, i.e. we can't just say "AWS has this and people use it a tonne" | 20:40 |
| annegentle | markmc: right | 20:40 |
| markmc | annegentle, I've heard people say they'd love AWS to have something like this though, but that's just anecdata | 20:40 |
| ttx | markmc: yeah. I found quite a number of people that were regretiing that AWS didn't have this though | 20:40 |
| jeblair | markmc, annegentle, bswartz: it's definitely the sort of thing we have often discussed would be useful in infra (putting on our "really big user" hats) | 20:40 |
| vponomaryov1 | devananda: two types of drivers, where some, like gluster fs can not have network isolation | 20:40 |
| esker | ttx: in some ways that's exactly what end users have asked of Manila though.... a single, abstracted API for provisioning of shared file systems. That almost certainly will invite vendor specific implementations behind it. | 20:40 |
| markmc | I wonder if we could get some sort of a question into the user survey about upcoming projects | 20:40 |
| devananda | vponomaryov1: i mean, where vendors want to add $special-feature | 20:40 |
| markmc | "which solve a real need you have?" | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | markmc: good idea | 20:41 |
| russellb | i feel like this has come up in conversations for me several times though | 20:41 |
| bswartz | On the plus side we can follow the trail that the cinder project has blazed | 20:41 |
| russellb | but it's just a gut feeling, i don't have data | 20:41 |
| vishy | so i have a small concern about knock-on features, let me see if I can express | 20:41 |
| devananda | esker: users want the common abstraction, sure - | 20:41 |
| vishy | currently cinder is lagging nova for some pretty significant features | 20:41 |
| markmc | russellb, not saying lack of data is a blocker for me, have a gut feeling too - but could be easy to get and very interesting | 20:42 |
| devananda | esker: but vendors will want to differentiate, leveragign some $special $feature, to increase sales of their hardware | 20:42 |
| vishy | in the past we had things like scheduler improvements, db races | 20:42 |
| devananda | esker: and i'm curious how you plan to balance these two demands | 20:42 |
| russellb | markmc: indeed | 20:42 |
| rcallawa | markmc: our overview session at the atlanta summit on manila was standing room only - as one indicator of interest | 20:42 |
| vishy | currently it is the object model and rpc versioning | 20:42 |
| russellb | rcallawa: awesome | 20:42 |
| markmc | rcallawa, excellent | 20:42 |
| vishy | you still can’t upgrade cinder versions without restarting | 20:42 |
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| vishy | so it seems that things go, make changes in nova, some get pulled into cinder | 20:43 |
| vishy | i’m concerned that since manila is a fork of cinder that adds another step in the trickle-down | 20:43 |
| ttx | timeboxing to 5 more minutes | 20:43 |
| esker | devananda: Cinder is certainly instructive in this light... and it is ultimately a balance. I think it also makes sense to acknowledge that of course vendors will want to put their best foot forward. | 20:43 |
| bswartz | vishy: manila is not as tightly coupled to nova as cinder is | 20:43 |
| markmc | vishy, conclusion? cinder should never have split out? more focus on cross-project/oslo sharing? | 20:43 |
| vishy | its not the coupling i’m concerned about | 20:43 |
| vishy | its that important features get pushed into nova | 20:43 |
| vishy | and then cinder gets them eventually | 20:43 |
| bswartz | in fact manila attempts not to involve nova at all (although we do have plans to support attach-by-instance-id) | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | vishy: the fact that the manila team seems to have a better attitude about working on sharing via oslo makes me think that will be less of a problem with them | 20:44 |
| vishy | if you are waiting on cinder to lead the way then there is a longer delay | 20:44 |
| vishy | i guess i’m suggesting that they should attempt to pull things more quickly from nova | 20:44 |
| ttx | vishy: I don't think they depend on cinder though | 20:44 |
| vishy | like the object model | 20:44 |
| bswartz | we're not waiting for cinder -- it's just a reality that they are about 2 years more mature than us and they hit problems earlier than we do | 20:44 |
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| ttx | vishy: in my understanding they mostly use cinder as atemplate, rather han a fork | 20:44 |
| vishy | like filter_secheduler | 20:44 |
| vishy | etc. | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | vishy: yeah, I'd like that object code to go into the incubator next cycle to make that easier | 20:44 |
| markmc | ah, I see - well, good advice for manila folks there - if you're syncing new features (like object model) don't wait for cinder to adopt first | 20:44 |
| jgriffith | markmc: hmm... merge cinder back in to Nova then? | 20:45 |
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| esker | jgriffith: seriously? | 20:45 |
| bswartz | markmc: thanks | 20:45 |
| vishy | i understand it was a template, but the reality is cinder often doesn’t know about improvements until nova makes tehm | 20:45 |
| russellb | dhellmann: fwiw, it was submitted before and denied :) | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | vishy: I've talked to dan about it, but we didn't get to it this time around | 20:45 |
| vishy | for example retry_on_deadlock was only just added | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | russellb: yep, that was me, and I've talked to dan about it | 20:45 |
| russellb | cool | 20:45 |
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| dhellmann | russellb: just expect it to be fixed once it comes over :-) | 20:45 |
| russellb | heh, k | 20:45 |
| vishy | so concretely, my suggestion is parts of the code that were ultimately derived from nova | 20:45 |
| ttx | vishy: well, obviously adding another project (whichever it is) will increase the need for cross-project coordination | 20:45 |
| vishy | track nova directly for changes | 20:46 |
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| markmc | vishy, ironically, if manila had started from scratch we wouldn't really ask about this yet the problem would be same/worse | 20:46 |
| vishy | like the db layer stuff, the object model stuff etc. | 20:46 |
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| vishy | markmc: that is true, but might as well take advantage of the grandparent code in this case :) | 20:46 |
| ttx | vishy: oh, I see what you mean | 20:46 |
| markmc | vishy, yep, it's a good point | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | I see lots of oslo libs in the manila requirements already, which makes me happy. :-) | 20:47 |
| devananda | i think the point is, nova is leading several changes, and its better to be following that directly than following a follower | 20:47 |
| esker | vishy: not intention to follow Cinder, but rather to learn from it given common heritage | 20:47 |
| vishy | cool | 20:47 |
| ttx | OK, we need to move on, we'll have another session on Manila in a future meeting. | 20:47 |
| esker | thanks | 20:47 |
| annegentle | thanks bswartz and esker | 20:47 |
| bswartz | thanks guys | 20:47 |
| ttx | You can continue those discussions on the Manila incubation ML thread | 20:48 |
| ttx | which didn't attract so much comments until now :) | 20:48 |
| ttx | eglynn: around? | 20:48 |
| eglynn | ttx: o/ | 20:48 |
| ttx | #topic Background information about Gnocchi project | 20:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Background information about Gnocchi project (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:48 | |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2014-August/000757.html | 20:48 |
| ttx | eglynn asked for some time to explain a few things about Gnocchi | 20:48 |
| eglynn | ^^^ background on that ML thread | 20:48 |
| ttx | We don't have that much time left, but since Eoghan will be in vacation soon, maybe a quick mention here can't hurt :) | 20:48 |
| markmc | are there TC-level concerns? | 20:49 |
| eglynn | yeah thanks for the opportunity ... | 20:49 |
| * markmc thought the mail was a nice summary | 20:49 | |
| ttx | I'm timeboxing this to 6 minutes so that we have time to cover the other changes | 20:49 |
| russellb | markmc: ++ | 20:49 |
| eglynn | well the intent is just to get TC folks caught up on what gnocchi is about | 20:49 |
| markmc | cool | 20:49 |
| russellb | thanks for the ML post | 20:49 |
| eglynn | as there was an info deficit | 20:49 |
| eglynn | yep, so the TL;DR is ... | 20:49 |
| eglynn | gnocchi is an arms-length project from ceilometer, in which we're exploring one option to pay down some architectural debt | 20:49 |
| eglynn | happy to answer any questions is there's time | 20:50 |
| mikal | So there are no plans to move to it at this time? | 20:50 |
| eglynn | I did go into a bit more detail in the thread on what it is, and what it ain't | 20:50 |
| ttx | i'm still a bit confused on the scope overlap between Gnocchi and InfluxDB | 20:50 |
| mikal | Its still an experiment? | 20:50 |
| devananda | eglynn: did anyone look into existing time-series databases before implementing another one? | 20:50 |
| russellb | sounds like a nice way to try out a major improvement, without too much disruption to the project for now | 20:50 |
| zaneb | eglynn: would it be fair to describe it as a branch that will eventually be merged back or not? | 20:50 |
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| russellb | seems reasonable | 20:50 |
| ttx | there seems to be a layer that would be duplicated between them | 20:50 |
| russellb | and something we should encourage | 20:50 |
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| eglynn | mikal: timeline is kilo to swicth if it meets the grade | 20:50 |
| eglynn | zaneb: yep that's fair | 20:51 |
| eglynn | devananda: well we're not just reinventing | 20:51 |
| mikal | eglynn: how do you decide if it meets the grade? What's the process for that? | 20:51 |
| devananda | eglynn: "not jsut reinventing" ? | 20:51 |
| ttx | devananda: they can piggyback on a time-series DB, but yeah, it seems like they would reimplement some parts of it | 20:51 |
| mikal | eglynn: a summit session? | 20:51 |
| eglynn | devananda: ... there's a pluggable driver model that allows us to plug in InfluxDB etc. as the backend | 20:51 |
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| eglynn | mikal: at the juno session, yes there was a session | 20:52 |
| eglynn | mikal: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ceilometer-tsdaas | 20:52 |
| eglynn | mikal: a-ha, you mean at the kilo summit? | 20:53 |
| eglynn | mikal: yes the process would include performance profiling and ensure a semantic match in the API | 20:53 |
| ttx | The thread explains the sitiation pretty well, and it just gets started | 20:53 |
| mikal | eglynn: ok, cool | 20:53 |
| ttx | so I think discussion can continue there | 20:53 |
| mikal | eglynn: that's what I was asking about | 20:54 |
| mordred | I'm still very unclear as to why a new time-series anything needs to be written | 20:54 |
| devananda | eglynn: I'm sure there's a reason why gnocchi didn't work with trove to provision influxdb instances? | 20:54 |
| devananda | mordred: as am I | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | gnocchi is also partially a response to all of the complaints about operators having to learn yet another new service, since can use swift for storage | 20:54 |
| eglynn | mordred: sandy raised a similar question on the ML, and I go into more detail there on the additional semantics | 20:54 |
| mordred | eglynn: ok. I'll go read that before I dive in more | 20:55 |
| ttx | yeah, I think the discussion can continue tere, we won't solve it in 4 minutes | 20:55 |
| eglynn | mordred: (i.e. above and beyond pure timeseries storage) | 20:55 |
| mordred | but it seems very much like a description of carbon | 20:55 |
| ttx | Thanks eglynn | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | mordred: apparently the carbon code is really ugly | 20:55 |
| mordred | which already exists and is in use at massive scale around the world and is in python | 20:55 |
| mordred | *meh* | 20:55 |
| jeblair | that's clearly not stopped us before | 20:55 |
| russellb | works > pretty :) | 20:55 |
| mordred | ugly code is not a reason to write a new thing | 20:55 |
| jeblair | russellb, mordred: ++ | 20:56 |
| dhellmann | well, from the perspective of it not quite doing what we want and also being hard to change, it might be | 20:56 |
| markmc | mordred, we could give the program the benefit of the doubt that they're not NIH for the sake of it | 20:56 |
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| russellb | yes, i think we should assume good faith on that ... but a summary about what was considered and why it didn't work out would be good | 20:56 |
| mordred | markmc: no, I don't think we have very good track record with that overall aroudn here | 20:56 |
| mordred | I don't assume bad faith | 20:56 |
| mikal | I feel like at this point we should let gnocci do its thing, and then ask for a merits based comparison with other options before its baked into ceilometer | 20:57 |
| eglynn | russellb: I can dig out more detail on jd__'s analysis of the fit with carbon | 20:57 |
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| mikal | Its not really fair comparing a half done thing with a finished thing | 20:57 |
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| russellb | eglynn: sounds like that'd be helpful | 20:57 |
| jeblair | agreed, i think we need to ask these questions, if for no other reason than people may simply not be aware of all the options. we have things to offer other than just being grumpy. :) | 20:57 |
| eglynn | russellb: cool | 20:57 |
| mordred | mikal: I DO think it's fair | 20:57 |
| eglynn | mikal: fair point | 20:57 |
| zaneb | mordred: I'm not sure that's true, although we definitely don't have a good track record of communicating why something is not NIH | 20:57 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: we got quite a lot of both at the summit in atlanta :-) | 20:57 |
| russellb | it's not comparing gnocci with carbon | 20:57 |
| sandywalsh | my only suggestion is the tsdb portion be one project and the abstraction layer be another (gnocchi proper) | 20:57 |
| russellb | it's comparing carbon to requirements | 20:57 |
| mikal | mordred: it sounds like other options were considered before they went down this path | 20:58 |
| mordred | mikal: and if that thing is intending to a substantial part of an integrated project, then I think it's worthwhile for us to get involved if we're going to be on the hook for maintaining a thing | 20:58 |
| mikal | mordred: I think we should leave second guessing them until they're done with their counter proposal | 20:58 |
| ttx | OK, let's continue that discussion (1) on the thread and (2) at the special meeting | 20:58 |
| jeblair | mikal: it also sounds like they weren't aware of influxdb at the time | 20:58 |
| mordred | mikal: ok. I'm just saying, I do NOT think we need to wait until the thing is finished to have discussions about whether doing the thing is a good idea | 20:58 |
| ttx | I'll use the last minute to cover the housekeeping changes | 20:58 |
| devananda | mordred: ++ | 20:58 |
| jeblair | (i wasn't either -- that's not a judgement, just an illustration of why asking and discussing options early is good) | 20:58 |
| ttx | #topic Other governance changes | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other governance changes (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:59 | |
| ttx | * Move DevStack to QA program (https://review.openstack.org/112090) | 20:59 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 20:59 |
| eglynn | jeblair: InfluxDb is pretty new in fairness, but the discussion with the Influx devs started in ATL at the same time as gnocchi | 20:59 |
| ttx | It looks like we are hugely in favor, but it needed a rebase last time I looked | 20:59 |
| ttx | which was posted... so please reapprove | 20:59 |
| ttx | * Add oslo.serialization to Oslo program (https://review.openstack.org/112996) | 20:59 |
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| ttx | This one now has dhellmann +1 so should be good to go, unless someone objects now | 20:59 |
| ttx | * Add oslo.middleware to the Oslo program (https://review.openstack.org/112395) | 20:59 |
| ttx | Same for this one, will approve after meeting unless someone objects now | 20:59 |
| ttx | * Add repository glance.store to glance (https://review.openstack.org/107585) | 20:59 |
| ttx | This one is still missing Glance PTL's +1, markwash is in vacation right now | 21:00 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 21:00 | |
| ttx | And as usual, no time left for open discussion weeee | 21:00 |
| * ttx could do with a meeting that finishes early | 21:00 | |
| annegentle | too late :) | 21:00 |
| * dhellmann invites ttx to the oslo meetings | 21:01 | |
| ttx | OK, so we'll all see each other on Thursday, 19:00 UTC on #openstack-meeting-3 | 21:01 |
| markmcclain | well maybe we can try for thursday's to end early :) | 21:01 |
| ttx | markmcclain: haha | 21:01 |
| ttx | unlikely. | 21:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 12 21:01:39 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-08-12-20.02.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-08-12-20.02.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-08-12-20.02.log.html | 21:01 |
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| ttx | dhellmann, dolphm, notmyname, eglynn, markwash, jgriffith, mikal, zaneb, david-lyle, mestery, SlickNik, SergeyLukjanov: around ? | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:02 |
| mestery | o/ | 21:02 |
| zaneb | o/ | 21:02 |
| notmyname | here | 21:02 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 21:02 |
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| dolphm | o/ | 21:02 |
| eglynn | o/ | 21:02 |
| jgriffith | o/ | 21:02 |
| devananda | o/ but lurking now | 21:02 |
| SlickNik | o/ | 21:03 |
| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 12 21:03:15 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:03 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:03 |
| ttx | Agenda for today is available at: | 21:03 |
| mikal | Hi | 21:03 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:03 |
| ttx | #topic News from the 1:1 sync points | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "News from the 1:1 sync points (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:03 | |
| ttx | We covered all projects but Cinder this week (Cinder is having their midcycle meetup) | 21:03 |
| ttx | Here is the log: | 21:04 |
| ttx | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ptl_sync/2014/ptl_sync.2014-08-12-08.03.html | 21:04 |
| ttx | In summary all projects are slightly behind schedule, and most of them will use FPF to drop stuff that is not proposed next Thursday | 21:04 |
| ttx | #topic Other program news | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other program news (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:05 | |
| ttx | Any other program with a quick announcement ? | 21:05 |
| annegentle | o/ | 21:05 |
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| jeblair | o/ | 21:05 |
| annegentle | I have a quick psa that ties into the later agenda item; I can wait until then | 21:05 |
| clarkb | I will be switching everyone to trusty by default on the 20th and updating tox | 21:05 |
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| mtreinish | clarkb: nice | 21:06 |
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| eglynn | clarkb: trusty FTW! :) | 21:06 |
| jeblair | ttx: we want to move stackforge/kite to openstack/kite since it was adopted by barbican | 21:06 |
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| jeblair | ttx: do you sync with jraim? | 21:06 |
| ttx | I can do thaht | 21:07 |
| jeblair | we were also wondering about python-kiteclient | 21:07 |
| ttx | it should probably move as well | 21:07 |
| ttx | but then it's not like an emergency repomove | 21:07 |
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| dolphm | they should stay together, for sure | 21:08 |
| ttx | jeblair: won't be that much around in the coming days | 21:08 |
| ttx | jeblair: you got a repomove day planned? | 21:08 |
| jeblair | ttx: yeah, saturday. we'll try emailing him i guess :) | 21:09 |
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| ttx | ack, thx | 21:09 |
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| ttx | ok, moving on | 21:09 |
| ttx | #topic When to open Kilo specs (mikal) | 21:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "When to open Kilo specs (mikal) (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:09 | |
| ttx | mikal: ohai | 21:10 |
| mikal | Heya | 21:10 |
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| mikal | So... I'm receiving questions on when specs for K will open | 21:10 |
| ttx | I know mestery wanted to discuss that as well | 21:10 |
| * mestery listens closely here. | 21:10 | |
| mestery | ttx: ++ | 21:10 |
| dolphm | why are specs not open now? | 21:10 |
| mikal | Given we'd said that the specs process would be more synced between projects in K | 21:10 |
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| mikal | I feel like we should have a unified plan for this as well | 21:10 |
| eglynn | bump any still-open juno specs to kilo now? | 21:10 |
| mikal | We'd felt that working on specs now was a distraction from landing J | 21:10 |
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| ttx | I think the main concern is the review overload. But then you could train reviewers to ignore Kilo specs until Kilo opens | 21:11 |
| mikal | However, I now realize the people writing specs have little interest in fixing J bugs | 21:11 |
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| mestery | mikal: It's a tough nut to crack | 21:11 |
| dolphm | i don't have an example today, but if we had review bandwidth and a spec proposed to a kilo/ dir today, why not give it a review? is there reason to block it? | 21:11 |
| mikal | i.e. the people wanting to do one now are people only interested in landing their feature | 21:11 |
| ttx | esepcially since they should not really be looking into *-specs at this point | 21:11 |
| dolphm | mikal: what are you trying to stop people from doing? proposing kilo specs? reviewing kilo specs? landing them? | 21:11 |
| eglynn | but the fact that they can't propose to gerrit won't stop them working on their spec surely? | 21:12 |
| mikal | So I guess this was more of an informational thing | 21:12 |
| ttx | dolphm: I think you don't have the same type of problems that Nova, Neutron (and possibly Cinder) have | 21:12 |
| mikal | What are other projects doign for this? | 21:12 |
| ttx | where the sheer noise is disturbing | 21:12 |
| mikal | dolphm: distracting reviewers, and attempting to redirect that effort into things we need for J | 21:12 |
| annegentle | people only want to write specs? | 21:12 |
| dolphm | ttx: certainly! | 21:12 |
| mikal | annegentle: yes, some people | 21:12 |
| annegentle | mikal: or is it that they want assurance _all_ will land? | 21:12 |
| ttx | annegentle: but write them and reviewers will come | 21:12 |
| dolphm | mikal: can't reviewers just ignore kilo/ specs willingly? | 21:12 |
| annegentle | mikal: as in spec,code, everything? | 21:12 |
| mikal | We have vendors who have little interest in fixing bugs, and only care about landing their feature | 21:12 |
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| eglynn | mikal: I was thinking of just bumping all open juno specs to kilo and then asking the review team to use their judgement as to where to apply their review cycles | 21:13 |
| mestery | It's hard for us to focus on Kilo spec reviews when we're still trying hard to land Juno stuff. | 21:13 |
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| annegentle | mikal: they'll write specs but not docs, and that needs to be nipped | 21:13 |
| mikal | dolphm: sure... its more the attempt to redirect the author's efforts that we were after | 21:13 |
| devananda | the sheer noise is distracting <--- this | 21:13 |
| eglynn | mikal: ... with a heavy steer away from kilo specs, but not enforced | 21:13 |
| devananda | folks show up in IRC pushing the "please review my spec" button over an over again | 21:13 |
| mikal | I don't think moving J specs to K is a good idea for nova | 21:13 |
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| mikal | We have a lot of abandonded specs as well | 21:13 |
| dolphm | mikal: but like you said, certain spec authors couldn't care less about stabilizing the previous release, especially if they're feature isn't in it | 21:13 |
| mestery | devananda: ++ | 21:13 |
| mikal | Re-proposing is light weight | 21:13 |
| mikal | dolphm: sure, but I was trying to change their behaviour | 21:14 |
| mikal | dolphm: it didn't work | 21:14 |
| eglynn | devananda: I use a mental /ignore to filter those :) | 21:14 |
| dolphm | mikal: cats | 21:14 |
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| mikal | So, it sounds like other people are allowing K specs now? | 21:14 |
| devananda | for ironic, my plan is to -2 all open specs, then wait until some time (exactly when TBD) after FF before creating the /kilo directory, and then see who reproposes | 21:14 |
| mestery | mikal: Not Neutron. | 21:14 |
| dolphm | mikal: how about moving abandoned specs into an abandoned/ dir at the end of a release, all at once? | 21:14 |
| mikal | dolphm: we were just goign to -2 in gerrit like devananda | 21:15 |
| mikal | dolphm: moving them into a dir would require merging them | 21:15 |
| mikal | Which would be a lot of reviews | 21:15 |
| mikal | Unless its one super review I suppose | 21:15 |
| dolphm | devananda: design discussions should still go on - i don't think a -2 is particularly beneficial to anyone | 21:15 |
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| eglynn | mikal: I'm not a huge fan of attempting to force the hand of developers, as they tend to just workaround the restriction in any case | 21:16 |
| ttx | annegentle: all those who write specs won't really be around to write docs :) | 21:16 |
| mikal | dolphm: the review needs to have its paths chagned, hence the procedural -2 | 21:16 |
| dolphm | mikal: you're talking about abandoned reviews then? | 21:16 |
| mikal | dolphm: yeah, largely | 21:16 |
| ttx | It's tricky, you want to let the door open but clearly show that it's frowned upon | 21:16 |
| mikal | dolphm: we don't know what's abandoned at the moment, as spec review stopped a while ago | 21:16 |
| devananda | dolphm: that's exactly it. i DONT want design discussions happening between now and RC | 21:16 |
| ttx | so that people know they should be usig their time doing something else at this point in the cycle | 21:16 |
| mikal | dolphm: do asking people to rebase is a way they signal that they still care | 21:16 |
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| devananda | at least not in as much as they take away from making a stable RC | 21:16 |
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| mikal | s/do/so/ | 21:17 |
| ttx | devananda: ++ | 21:17 |
| eglynn | positive steer beats negative restrictions, IMO | 21:17 |
| devananda | there are seriously only two things in ironic that deserve an ongoing discussion with cores - and we already have that informally | 21:17 |
| dolphm | devananda: that seems like you're shooting yourself in the foot | 21:17 |
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| dolphm | devananda: (trying to artificially inhibit design discussions) | 21:18 |
| devananda | dolphm: focusing on one thing for a short period of time means putting other things on the back burner | 21:18 |
| devananda | I don't see how that's a bad thing | 21:18 |
| ttx | eglynn: how would you present it in a positive way while still discouraging out-of-sync actions like this? It's tricky | 21:18 |
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| dolphm | devananda: normally, what we're designing for and what we're doing are closely related | 21:19 |
| devananda | dolphm: we'll definitely have those design discussions with vendors and interested parties, after we do the work needed to get Juno out the door | 21:19 |
| eglynn | ttx: the value proposition is making juno a release we can be proud of / can stand over etc. | 21:19 |
| mikal | eglynn: I haven't had a lot of joy with that sort of angle | 21:19 |
| mikal | eglynn: "do reviews, it will speed up your own review by making the queue smaller" | 21:19 |
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| mikal | eglynn: zero reviews occur | 21:19 |
| eglynn | mikal: fair enough, much bigger and more diverse contributor base in the nova case | 21:19 |
| eglynn | mikal: ... social pressures easier to apply with a smaller group | 21:20 |
| ttx | eglynn: as someone who has been asking people to work on RC bugs for the last 9 releases, i would say that the beauty of the game is not a sufficient motivator | 21:20 |
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| mikal | eglynn: I think that's very true | 21:20 |
| mikal | eglynn: also, it seems projects with a vendor driver layer seem to have a harder time | 21:20 |
| eglynn | mikal: fair point | 21:20 |
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| ttx | it only touches a minority of contributors, the "strategic" ones | 21:20 |
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| eglynn | ttx: ... if all else fails, one can always try "guilting" them into doing it :) | 21:21 |
| mikal | I don't feel like we reached a concensus here | 21:21 |
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| ttx | So. solution one is to not prevent K specs from being submitted, and teach core reviewers to ignore them | 21:21 |
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| dolphm | mikal: what was the question, again? | 21:22 |
| ttx | solution 2 is to somehow prevent those from being filed until RC1 | 21:22 |
| eglynn | mikal: well a one-size-fits-all approach may not work across all the projects | 21:22 |
| mikal | ttx: I am increasingly of the believe we should go with 1 | 21:22 |
| ttx | eglynn: it's definitely not a one-size-fits-all | 21:22 |
| mikal | Yeah, agreed | 21:22 |
| ttx | it's finding a solution for the largest projects | 21:22 |
| eglynn | ttx: that's fair | 21:22 |
| mikal | dolphm: whether opening K specs now is a mistake | 21:22 |
| mestery | Ignoring specs has it's own issues, if that's a solution it's the wrong one. | 21:22 |
| mestery | We hit many issues with that in Neutron during Juno. | 21:22 |
| ttx | mikal: i prefer solution 1. Solution 2 is only pretending to fix the issue | 21:22 |
| mikal | ttx: agreed | 21:23 |
| mestery | If anything, being more proactive about responding to specs is the right approach, but that requires time. | 21:23 |
| mikal | Its ok, K will be full of magical runways of awesome | 21:23 |
| dolphm | mikal: well then i vote that closing them was a mistake :) | 21:23 |
| mikal | We just have to get there with no one getting murdered on the way | 21:23 |
| ttx | mestery: you think we can't just say "K specs will start getting reviewed when K development opens" ? | 21:23 |
| ttx | that sounds like something that rings true, somehow | 21:24 |
| mestery | ttx: My experience shows people get angry when their specs are ignored. | 21:24 |
| mikal | ttx: that's what nova originally said | 21:24 |
| mestery | While it's a fair statement, not everyone will be happy with it. | 21:24 |
| mikal | ttx: and what happens now is everyone pings me and says they're sulking | 21:24 |
| dolphm | mestery: when anything in gerrit is ignored | 21:24 |
| mestery | dolphm: ++ | 21:24 |
| mikal | ttx: and declines to work on bugs instead | 21:24 |
| ttx | sigh | 21:24 |
| mestery | mikal: I get that too | 21:24 |
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| mikal | I get a lot of very weird personal email | 21:24 |
| ttx | mikal: we should trade some | 21:25 |
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| mikal | ttx: have a gallery of the best? | 21:25 |
| mestery | mikal: I bet not as weird as mine | 21:25 |
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| ttx | sounds like a topic for a beer | 21:25 |
| mikal | Maybe neutron / cinder / nova should collude for a "big project plan" | 21:25 |
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| mikal | We could have a quick chat when John gets back | 21:25 |
| dolphm | mikal: ttx: just reply on an mailing list | 21:25 |
| mestery | mikal: :) | 21:25 |
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| mikal | It seems like the big project concerns aren't shared by the smaller projects | 21:26 |
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| jgriffith | I'm back :) | 21:26 |
| dhellmann | dolphm: I reply to a lot of email asking them to resend it to the -dev list | 21:26 |
| mikal | Oh, that guy | 21:26 |
| annegentle | mikal: right that's my sense of it too | 21:26 |
| dolphm | dhellmann: i just do that for them :) | 21:26 |
| ttx | frankly, I think if you have so many people that don't care about your project that you can't get enough "normal" work done, you have a separate problem | 21:26 |
| dolphm | doesn't happen all that often to me though | 21:26 |
| devananda | mikal: i'm sort of surprised, given how much ironic's concerns overlap with nova's | 21:26 |
| ttx | this K specs thing is just a symptom | 21:26 |
| mikal | ttx: oh, agreed | 21:26 |
| mestery | ttx: ++ | 21:26 |
| devananda | mikal: I don't consider us a large project, tho | 21:27 |
| devananda | ttx: definitely | 21:27 |
| mikal | ttx: is more about trying to push the distraction laser out of the path of the people who are part of the solution | 21:27 |
| markmcclain | could we not just have a gerrit autoresponder for projects that want delay that includes a note of when the opening will occur? | 21:27 |
| mikal | devananda: surprised that smaller projects seem less concerned you mean? | 21:27 |
| ttx | mikal: in the end, it's "how to avoid the PTl pain of dealing with unreasonable requests" | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | markmcclain: it wouldn't even need to be a bot, it could be a check job | 21:27 |
| ttx | I think jgriffith wrote a book on it | 21:27 |
| mikal | ttx: I think that pain is unavoidable | 21:28 |
| mikal | ttx: because we deal with humans' | 21:28 |
| devananda | mikal: surprised that smaller proejcts don't share the concerns of larger projects (+ ironic) | 21:28 |
| ttx | mikal: we could do a better job of communicating expectations though | 21:28 |
| mikal | ttx: I tried building a core reviewer out of lego, it didn't work out so well | 21:28 |
| mikal | ttx: well, we did announce that we would freeze specs, accept no K specs, and fix bugs | 21:28 |
| mikal | ttx: people just don't like it so they complain and don't fix bugs | 21:29 |
| devananda | mikal: that's awesome | 21:29 |
| ttx | I think you do as much as you can, we (as in me) need to ramp up developer docs and training to match | 21:29 |
| eglynn | mikal: that would be my fear exactly | 21:29 |
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| dhellmann | there's a group working on getting corporate project managers more involved, maybe communicating these expectations is an area where that would be useful? | 21:29 |
| mikal | dhellmann: if I had a mailing list of corporate project managers I could email asks to, I would use it a lot | 21:30 |
| dolphm | ttx: a big page that answers the question "as a contributor, what should i be working on this week?" would be dandy | 21:30 |
| ttx | mikal: at this point it's like they are just not contributing, so you shouldn't count on them for bugfixing | 21:30 |
| mikal | dhellmann: "please encourage your people to focus on bug fixes for now" | 21:30 |
| ttx | you may have a smaller set of contributors than you think :) | 21:30 |
| dolphm | ttx: and by big page, i mean like a giant link to gerrit | 21:30 |
| mikal | ttx: agreed. I also don't love drive by features by the way. | 21:30 |
| mestery | I think as PTLs we already act as project managers, I don't think developers would necessarily listen to other ones either. | 21:30 |
| * eglynn thinks we've got to get out of the mindset that we can *tell* devs what to work on ... at most we can steer and incentivize IMO | 21:30 | |
| mikal | ttx: which is what a lot of this is. | 21:30 |
| annegentle | bug fixes and document the features that did land. | 21:30 |
| dhellmann | mikal: zehicle and sarob are involved in that, according to their blogs (also allison randall, but I don't know her irc handle) | 21:31 |
| mikal | eglynn: that's probably true, although I don't know how to get there from here (at least in nova) | 21:31 |
| ttx | mikal: once upon a time, everyone was attening the "project meeting" (this one) and just me shouting at people what enough to communicate cycle priorities | 21:31 |
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| ttx | s/what/was | 21:31 |
| devananda | dhellmann: wendar | 21:32 |
| ttx | we grew to the point where only PTLs attend this meeting | 21:32 |
| dhellmann | devananda: thank you | 21:32 |
| ttx | and they know the priorities | 21:32 |
| annegentle | ttx: ah the good old days | 21:32 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: these new corporate project managers would have how much leverage over the developer resources, do you think? | 21:32 |
| * mordred didn't attend this meeting even back then | 21:32 | |
| * mestery reminisces. | 21:32 | |
| mikal | So, I feel like we should move on | 21:32 |
| annegentle | mordred: ha | 21:32 |
| mikal | There are other things on the agenda | 21:32 |
| mikal | And this has stalled | 21:32 |
| dolphm | mikal: ++ | 21:32 |
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| ttx | #action ttx to think about how to communicate cycle priorities in the thousand-contributors times | 21:33 |
| mestery | mikal: ++ | 21:33 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: well, it wouldn't be a matter of saying "we need you to do X" at first, but a matter of saying "don't talk to us about new features for a few weeks, we have bugs to fix" | 21:33 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: setting expecatations at a different level in the organization | 21:33 |
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| eglynn | devananda: yeah, cool enough if it's "soft steer" like that | 21:33 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: ^^^ | 21:33 |
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| ttx | mikal: in summary, i think you should keep K specs open. We need to communicate cycle priorities better, but that's a bigger issue | 21:33 |
| eglynn | darned tab completion! | 21:33 |
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| mikal | ttx: yeah, that's where I got ot as well | 21:34 |
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| mikal | ttx: I will discuss with John when he gets back from his cold meat themed music festival | 21:34 |
| ttx | this meeting, and occasional ML rants are no longer enough | 21:34 |
| * devananda disagrees, keeps K specs closed | 21:34 | |
| mikal | devananda: as is your right | 21:34 |
| ttx | devananda: ftw | 21:34 |
| ttx | ok next topic | 21:34 |
| ttx | #topic Clarification on documentation contrib workflow (eglynn/annegentle) | 21:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Clarification on documentation contrib workflow (eglynn/annegentle) (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:34 | |
| devananda | i'll let ya'll know how it goes when we get to paris | 21:35 |
| ttx | Heavyweight XML-based docbook versus new lightweight RST-based model | 21:35 |
| eglynn | yeah, just something I wanted to raise on the PTLs' radar | 21:35 |
| ttx | Fight! | 21:35 |
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| eglynn | as it could save your team some learning curve | 21:35 |
| annegentle | heh no fight here | 21:35 |
| eglynn | (if your project has substantial docco contribution coming down the road) | 21:35 |
| ttx | eglynn: presented like this, i can't side with XML | 21:35 |
| eglynn | annegentle: agreed, all sweetness & light! :) | 21:35 |
| eglynn | ttx: this is more in the line of a PSA | 21:35 |
| mikal | Could we perhaps use microsoft word for docs? | 21:36 |
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| eglynn | so basically there are now two separate contrib models for doc | 21:36 |
| annegentle | next I will require video documentation | 21:36 |
| * annegentle stabs mikal with a spork | 21:36 | |
| mikal | Heh | 21:36 |
| eglynn | the XML-based docbook has a significant learning curve | 21:36 |
| eglynn | but the docs team is piloting a new lightweight option | 21:36 |
| eglynn | based on RST that we all know and love :) | 21:36 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: sporks are too sharp | 21:36 |
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| eglynn | so given how enthusiastic devs are for writing kilo specs in RST | 21:37 |
| dolphm | xml used to be keystone's primary means of api docs, and we got less than zero community contribution. moving to MD/RST, we get quite a lot, although RST is still apparently a challenge to get even close to correct for most people | 21:37 |
| annegentle | eglynn: heh quite the tie in | 21:37 |
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| eglynn | yep, seems that they should also be gunning to knock out the docco in the same format | 21:37 |
| eglynn | annegentle: have I represented all that correctly? | 21:38 |
| ttx | eglynn: now I'm disappointed. I'm addicted to conflict now | 21:38 |
| eglynn | ttx: LOL :) | 21:38 |
| annegentle | yes, though currently we are doing a POC with Heat only | 21:38 |
| annegentle | part of this psa is also that I've got patches removing WADL from the "long form" API documents | 21:38 |
| annegentle | dolphm: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/112620/ | 21:39 |
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| annegentle | that helps with the problem of broken doc builds across repos (where the WADL breaking would break another repo's build) | 21:39 |
| mikal | Is someone going to move the existing XML docs to RST? | 21:39 |
| annegentle | what I'd like to do next is propose RST for the "long form" info that's left, like rate limiting, etc. | 21:39 |
| mikal | Cause that person will look awesome on stackalytics | 21:39 |
| ttx | die WADL die | 21:39 |
| annegentle | mikal: this is a phased approach | 21:39 |
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| annegentle | mikal: well that person is me and I still won't match someone like Andreas Jaeger :) | 21:40 |
| mikal | Heh | 21:40 |
| dolphm | annegentle: my hero! | 21:41 |
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| annegentle | mikal: the phases are: POC for Heat (HOT Template), WADL removal for only docs on http://docs.openstack.org/api/api-specs.html | 21:41 |
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| annegentle | then RST proposal for API docs in each repo | 21:41 |
| eglynn | annegentle: so for kilo, will the RST model become the primary vector for doc contributions from the project teams, d'ya think? | 21:41 |
| annegentle | any questions? | 21:41 |
| dolphm | annegentle: so, related conversation... should identity-api still exist? or should it be somehow merged into keystone-specs? | 21:41 |
| eglynn | (or over a longer time horizon) | 21:41 |
| annegentle | WADL remains our only solution currently for http://developer.openstack.org/api-ref.html but I'd welcome ideas | 21:42 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: are you using sphinxcontrib-pecanwsme for API docs for new projects? should I get that moved to stackforge? | 21:42 |
| annegentle | dolphm: I was going to propose it in keystone, but maybe in -specs is the better way? | 21:42 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: I don't have a solution for extensible apis like nova neutron keystone right? | 21:42 |
| dolphm | annegentle: doing it in -specs allows us to see proposed API changes as part of the design process | 21:42 |
| annegentle | dolphm: right but you're the only team doing that, so my thinking is that I shop it with patchsets | 21:43 |
| annegentle | dolphm: or I guess I could do ML post prior to patchsets | 21:43 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: yeah, this would just be for new stuff, I'm just curious if you're actually using it in some way for non-developer docs since it's still under Dreamhosts' github account | 21:43 |
| annegentle | eglynn: as for "will the RST model become primary vector" -- I have a dependency on a page-based redesign | 21:43 |
| dolphm | annegentle: i'm asking selfishly here, knowing no one else uses keystone's process | 21:44 |
| dolphm | for api documentation, anyway | 21:44 |
| eglynn | annegentle: fair enough | 21:44 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: I really would prefer a single API reference "way" -- swagger, raml, wadl, whatever | 21:44 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: how you generate it I don't care | 21:44 |
| dolphm | rst + jsonschema definitions :) | 21:44 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: unless it's crappy | 21:44 |
| dolphm | or md | 21:44 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: ok, I wasn't pushing a solution, just wanting to make sure the tools you might be using were easily fixable as needed | 21:44 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: seems like it | 21:45 |
| dhellmann | I suspect most projects are going to be using some JSONSchema thing anyway, so the wsme doc lib might not be as useful | 21:45 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: it looks like that's the compute v3 api (jsonschema) | 21:45 |
| dhellmann | yeah | 21:45 |
| annegentle | right | 21:46 |
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| ttx | ok, I think the PSA is now emitted | 21:46 |
| annegentle | I still believe a lot of discussion about scope will help the docs program | 21:46 |
| mikal | There is no v3 api by the way | 21:46 |
| annegentle | since all of this overflow is in integrated projects | 21:46 |
| mikal | It was a mirage | 21:46 |
| annegentle | oh yes v3 / v2.1 | 21:46 |
| mikal | Ta | 21:46 |
| ttx | eglynn, annegentle ready to move to open discussion? | 21:47 |
| annegentle | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/85640/ for the curious/uninitiated | 21:47 |
| annegentle | I'm good-to-go if eglynn is | 21:47 |
| eglynn | ttx: yep | 21:47 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 21:47 |
| eglynn | annegentle: thanks for all the additional background detail | 21:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:47 | |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 21:47 |
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| annegentle | someone come up with something so ttx doesn't get an early meeting end! I kid, I kid. | 21:48 |
| ttx | tss | 21:50 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:50 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 12 21:50:46 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:50 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-08-12-21.03.html | 21:50 |
| mikal | Yay! | 21:50 |
| ttx | win! | 21:50 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-08-12-21.03.txt | 21:50 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-08-12-21.03.log.html | 21:50 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone | 21:50 |
| dolphm | \o/ | 21:51 |
| ttx | come back next week for more adventures | 21:51 |
| eglynn | 'night all! | 21:51 |
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