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| schwicke | hi all | 16:01 |
| Nirbhay_ | hi schwicke | 16:01 |
| sajeesh | hi schwicke | 16:01 |
| raildo | hi all | 16:02 |
| sajeesh | hi raildo | 16:02 |
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| Nirbhay_ | hi raildo | 16:02 |
| schwicke | #startmeeting hierarchical_multitenancy | 16:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Jul 25 16:02:51 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is schwicke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hierarchical_multitenancy)" | 16:02 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'hierarchical_multitenancy' | 16:02 |
| schwicke | couple of things to be discussed today | 16:03 |
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| sajeesh | schwicke ....default quota ! ! | 16:03 |
| schwicke | I'd like to start with a short overview where we are | 16:03 |
| sajeesh | ok | 16:03 |
| Nirbhay_ | ok | 16:04 |
| schwicke | #topic status | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "status (Meeting topic: hierarchical_multitenancy)" | 16:04 | |
| schwicke | I think the keystone specs are in for Juno | 16:04 |
| schwicke | that's great ! | 16:04 |
| sajeesh | great | 16:04 |
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| raildo | Regarding the approval of the spec. Dolph told me that we don't need to worry about the deadline but he would like a devstack installation with the code running. | 16:05 |
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| raildo | So I created a VM in my cloud and I'll provide a link for testing. | 16:05 |
| schwicke | for the nova parts we were too late, and with two minuses there was no way to get an exception | 16:05 |
| raildo | and i created a wiki about the hierarchical multitenancy API. https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/HierarchicalMultitenancy_API#Hierarchical_Multitenancy_API | 16:05 |
| schwicke | great! | 16:05 |
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| schwicke | the nova folks are discussing if the current policy is optimal from what I have seen. | 16:06 |
| sajeesh | good | 16:06 |
| Nirbhay_ | nice | 16:06 |
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| schwicke | we had quite a bit of discussions inside the team in the past couple of days | 16:06 |
| schwicke | and IMO we should rewrite the nova spec from scratch. The old one is in "abandoned state" | 16:07 |
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| sajeesh | schwicke ,I have started it | 16:07 |
| schwicke | ok. I would like to have an internal review first before we publish it | 16:08 |
| raildo | sounds good to me | 16:08 |
| schwicke | We also need to add the dependencies which were missing in the previous specs | 16:08 |
| sajeesh | ok...will send you in a couple of days | 16:08 |
| schwicke | the keystone stuff is a prerequisit | 16:08 |
| sajeesh | yes | 16:09 |
| schwicke | possibly also the blue prints about nova keystone V2 -> V3 which as far as I know didn't make it either | 16:09 |
| Nirbhay_ | sajeesh , make it as simple as possible... | 16:09 |
| sajeesh | ok | 16:09 |
| Nirbhay_ | ok | 16:09 |
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| schwicke | #agreed hierarchical quota specs to be rewritten from scratch | 16:10 |
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| schwicke | #agreed do a thorough internal review before publishing | 16:10 |
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| schwicke | # agreed add dependencies | 16:11 |
| schwicke | change of topic: there is one remaining thing to be decided on | 16:11 |
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| schwicke | #topic default quota | 16:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "default quota (Meeting topic: hierarchical_multitenancy)" | 16:11 | |
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| schwicke | short summary of the offline discussions: | 16:12 |
| schwicke | non zero default quota can result in a race condition | 16:12 |
| schwicke | and wrong accounting | 16:12 |
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| raildo | today, we have this values, ok? https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/quota.py#L34 | 16:12 |
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| schwicke | yep | 16:13 |
| schwicke | I'd like to question that actually :) | 16:13 |
| schwicke | I don't think it makes sense at all. | 16:13 |
| schwicke | correct me if I'm wrong but projects are created inside keystone only | 16:13 |
| raildo | yes | 16:14 |
| schwicke | and nova does not know about those projects a priori | 16:14 |
| schwicke | So you could have zero resources in nova and tons of quotas allocated in keystone | 16:14 |
| schwicke | resulting in very disappointed users. | 16:14 |
| sajeesh | raildo,will nova come to know if a project is newly created or destroyed | 16:14 |
| sajeesh | earlier,you had talked about synchronizing keystone with other services | 16:14 |
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| schwicke | if it works as I think it works then the initial values should be neutral (eg 0) and they would have to be changed with an API call to nova | 16:15 |
| schwicke | which in turn would solve our little race condition scenario. | 16:16 |
| raildo | At other times I have discussed about the keystone notify services about these changes, but it seems to be complicated. | 16:16 |
| raildo | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/tenant-deletion | 16:16 |
| raildo | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/realtime-communication | 16:17 |
| sajeesh | ok | 16:17 |
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| Nirbhay_ | ok | 16:17 |
| sajeesh | raildo ,you mean currently there is no such notification ? | 16:17 |
| raildo | not real-time, so I have no way to tell to Nova that I created a new project. | 16:18 |
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| sajeesh | what about deletion ? | 16:18 |
| sajeesh | deleting a project ? | 16:19 |
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| schwicke | I think deleting a project is not an issue as long as a project cannot be deleted unless it is empty/unused | 16:19 |
| raildo | I would have to analyze better the code, but I know that notifications are not in real time. | 16:20 |
| schwicke | I don't get why there are non-zero default quotas in Nova right now :) | 16:20 |
| schwicke | ok | 16:20 |
| raildo | schwicke: +1 | 16:20 |
| schwicke | Maybe we should raise that on the openstack-dev list | 16:21 |
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| raildo | It will be a good discussion | 16:21 |
| schwicke | if the default quotas are zero and have to be changed via a nova api call we have no problem | 16:21 |
| schwicke | :) | 16:21 |
| schwicke | raildo: +1 | 16:21 |
| schwicke | ok, so ... | 16:22 |
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| schwicke | #action ask the non-zero quota issue on the dev list | 16:22 |
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| Nirbhay_ | schwicke, deletion of project will also matter even if it is empty | 16:22 |
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| schwicke | why ? | 16:23 |
| Nirbhay_ | as project might be empty but it will have some quota assigned to it..if it is deleted parent should come to know to update its allocated quota | 16:23 |
| VINOD_ | hi...sorry for very late | 16:23 |
| Nirbhay_ | no instances does not mean no quota allocated to it.. | 16:23 |
| schwicke | Nirbhay: you are right. | 16:23 |
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| raildo | hi VINOD_ | 16:24 |
| VINOD_ | raido: hi | 16:24 |
| schwicke | however, if there are notifications even if they come in delayed I don't think there is an issue | 16:24 |
| schwicke | VINOD_: Hi! Welcome | 16:24 |
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| VINOD_ | schwicke: hi | 16:25 |
| schwicke | people wil lhave to wait a bit before those quotas are released again. | 16:25 |
| raildo | Nova is notified somehow, I just do not know exactly how this is done. | 16:25 |
| schwicke | However, numbers should stay consistent. | 16:25 |
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| schwicke | raildo: maybe we should find out how this works | 16:26 |
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| raildo | I will test this function and i respond by email. | 16:27 |
| schwicke | ok great! | 16:27 |
| schwicke | raildo: thanks a lot! | 16:27 |
| schwicke | #action raildo will test how nova is notified in the case of the deletion of a project | 16:27 |
| raildo | schwicke: no problem :) | 16:28 |
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| Nirbhay_ | does any one know, how in present openstack deployments nova assigns default quota to project | 16:28 |
| VINOD_ | Nirbhay: i had sent a mail today about this. | 16:28 |
| Nirbhay_ | as now also projects are created in keystone current default quota lies with noca | 16:28 |
| Nirbhay_ | **nova | 16:28 |
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| VINOD_ | Nirbhay: Nova has a default quota values hard coded in "quota.py".... | 16:29 |
| Nirbhay_ | i will go through it | 16:29 |
| VINOD_ | Nirbhay: If you don't set the quota for a project, these default value applies and is not stored in the database | 16:29 |
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| schwicke | Raildo had sent the link earlier in the meeting | 16:30 |
| sajeesh | sorry ...my connection got interrupted | 16:30 |
| Nirbhay_ | but project is created in keystone, then they are link, or when nova actually create a row for that project in its quota table | 16:30 |
| schwicke | (for those joining in late :) What time is it in India ? ) | 16:30 |
| VINOD_ | yes, #link https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/quota.py | 16:30 |
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| VINOD_ | It is 10 PM | 16:30 |
| sajeesh | 10'o clock | 16:30 |
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| schwicke | great that you connect anyway ! | 16:31 |
| schwicke | +1 | 16:31 |
| VINOD_ | Nirbhay: Nova creates an entry in nova only for those attribues for which quota is set..i mean if somebody set the value for "instances" attribues | 16:31 |
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| VINOD_ | Nirbhay: this values will be saved in the database and rest will be taken from the default values present in quota.py | 16:31 |
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| Nirbhay_ | ok | 16:32 |
| Nirbhay_ | now clear to me.. | 16:32 |
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| schwicke | so I suggest we wiat for Raildos mail and then, depending on the outcome, ask the question about default quotas on the dev list | 16:32 |
| sajeesh | ok | 16:32 |
| VINOD_ | schwicke: ok | 16:32 |
| Nirbhay_ | ok | 16:32 |
| raildo | ok | 16:32 |
| sajeesh | shwicke,what about getting immediate child projects from keystone in realtime ? Shall we discuss that ? | 16:33 |
| schwicke | #agreed we wait for Raildos mail and then, depending on the outcome, ask the question about default quotas on the dev list | 16:33 |
| schwicke | sajeesh: we have this info in the keystone token. | 16:33 |
| raildo | schwicke: +1 | 16:34 |
| sajeesh | but I think the validity of the token is one hour | 16:34 |
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| schwicke | sajeesh: the only issue is the race condition due to non-zero default quota | 16:34 |
| schwicke | sajeesh: which goes if we can convince the community that the inital values should be zero | 16:34 |
| sajeesh | ok | 16:35 |
| VINOD_ | sajeesh: If we go with storing the "allocated" value, we don't need to worry about child project names in the token | 16:35 |
| sajeesh | vinod: that is what I am talking about | 16:35 |
| VINOD_ | sajeesh: +1 (the only issue i could see the default values) | 16:35 |
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| Nirbhay_ | sajeesh, you will need child list to cross check while handling requests | 16:36 |
| Nirbhay_ | even if u store allocated value | 16:36 |
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| VINOD_ | +1 | 16:37 |
| sajeesh | schwicke,whether it is finalized to store the allocated value in nova\ | 16:37 |
| schwicke | which you have in the token | 16:37 |
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| sajeesh | token ? allocated value ? | 16:37 |
| Nirbhay_ | yes token should have child list + allocated value should be stored inDB | 16:38 |
| VINOD_ | +1 | 16:38 |
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| schwicke | according to the specs currently the token has the full tree information below the project to which the token is scoped | 16:38 |
| VINOD_ | It sounds good to me as child list will be used to cross check for handling requests and allocated value stored in the db is used to calculate free quota | 16:38 |
| sajeesh | I have to check the latest spec | 16:39 |
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| Nirbhay_ | schwicke, full tree info is not there in token, but can be requested sepratly via api call | 16:39 |
| VINOD_ | with this, i think we don't need to worry if a new child project is created by other admin (and so not present in my earlier created token) | 16:39 |
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| raildo | talking about the spec... I uploaded today a new version, if you can review, I appreciate it :) https://review.openstack.org/#/c/101017/ | 16:40 |
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| Nirbhay_ | token only has child list, but Get /v3/projects/A will give u full tree below A | 16:40 |
| sajeesh | raildo, sure | 16:40 |
| schwicke | #action review new spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/101017/ | 16:40 |
| VINOD_ | raildo: i will certainly go through it and get back to you for any doubts | 16:40 |
| VINOD_ | sajeesh: Do you need any help in creating the new blue print for quota? | 16:41 |
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| sajeesh | vinod ,thanks ...I will let you know | 16:41 |
| sajeesh | if I am having any doubts | 16:41 |
| raildo | VINOD_: and I will strive to answer them doubts | 16:42 |
| VINOD_ | raildo: thanks | 16:42 |
| schwicke | sajeesh: please first circulate interally so that what we publish at the end is already in a good shape. | 16:42 |
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| VINOD_ | +1 | 16:42 |
| sajeesh | schwicke ,sure | 16:42 |
| schwicke | +1 | 16:42 |
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| Nirbhay_ | +1 | 16:42 |
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| VINOD_ | sajeesh: i guess we need to do this as fast as possible...to meet any little scope of getting accepted this for Juno | 16:43 |
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| Nirbhay_ | schwicke, it is the same we discussed in morning | 16:43 |
| schwicke | ok | 16:43 |
| schwicke | anything else on this ? | 16:43 |
| schwicke | If not I | 16:43 |
| schwicke | I'd like to change topic | 16:44 |
| VINOD_ | schwicke: nothing more from my side | 16:44 |
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| schwicke | #topic domains and users | 16:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "domains and users (Meeting topic: hierarchical_multitenancy)" | 16:44 | |
| schwicke | reading through the latest comments of raidos specs I got a bit worried about the possible complexity | 16:44 |
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| schwicke | I understand that users are organized in domains which are not hierarchical, and we said that we'll ignore them in nova | 16:45 |
| schwicke | meaning that we don't assign quotas to domains which is fine | 16:46 |
| Nirbhay_ | yes | 16:46 |
| raildo | There was a great discussion on this topic at Keystone and in my team, but we come to this conclusion: "The user management is made through domains. If a user needs to add new users, he needs the ability to create a new domain and to specify the IdP used for that domain. This managemente is well covered by the federation use cases." | 16:46 |
| schwicke | do you see any issues to allow a project admin to create a new domain with different users and give them access to his sub-projects ? | 16:46 |
| sajeesh | testing | 16:46 |
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| sajeesh | ping | 16:47 |
| sajeesh | ping | 16:47 |
| raildo | pong | 16:47 |
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| schwicke | pong | 16:48 |
| raildo | now, i don't see any problem | 16:48 |
| schwicke | raildo: at a second glance I think it is fine for our use cases as well | 16:49 |
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| schwicke | might become a bit complex though. | 16:49 |
| schwicke | ok, so no problem with that | 16:49 |
| VINOD_ | schwicke: IMO, domains can be used as containers for users.....project can be kept as hierachical.... | 16:49 |
| schwicke | last topic: my failure to move the meeting ... | 16:49 |
| schwicke | really sorry about that but it turns out not to be easy. | 16:50 |
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| schwicke | we have maybe a chance if we move to a different channel. | 16:50 |
| sajeesh | right | 16:51 |
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| Nirbhay_ | yes | 16:51 |
| VINOD_ | schwicke: but then we have to advertise somewhere for people about this new channel | 16:51 |
| schwicke | I meant one of the other official channels | 16:51 |
| VINOD_ | schwicke: ok | 16:52 |
| schwicke | will resume on this early next week with a proposal via e-mail. OK | 16:52 |
| sajeesh | ok | 16:52 |
| schwicke | (that OK was meant to be a question) :) | 16:52 |
| raildo | ok | 16:52 |
| Nirbhay_ | very few meeting are there on other channels | 16:52 |
| Nirbhay_ | ok | 16:52 |
| sajeesh | :-) | 16:52 |
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| VINOD_ | +1 | 16:53 |
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| schwicke | #agreed send another proposal for moving the slot via e-mail early next week | 16:54 |
| VINOD_ | raildo: one small doubt. I was reading the message before i joined the meeting. It was mentioned, that the keystone blue print is accepted. but i could see no reviewers giving +1 yet. Do we have any chance for our blueprints to be accepted in Juno | 16:54 |
| schwicke | #action schwicke to come up with a new meeting slot proposal via e-mail | 16:54 |
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| schwicke | vinod_: the nova blue print is abandoned | 16:55 |
| VINOD_ | schwicke: yes, i had seen that | 16:56 |
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| raildo | VINOD_: what BP are you talking about? hierarchical multi-tenancy? | 16:56 |
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| VINOD_ | raildo: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/101017/ | 16:56 |
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| schwicke | vinod_ : that's on track | 16:57 |
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| VINOD_ | schwicke: ok | 16:57 |
| raildo | VINOD_: According to what I talked with dolph and morgan, I intend to send the code in Juno. the code is approximately 80% done. | 16:57 |
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| VINOD_ | raildo: great..thanks | 16:58 |
| morganfainberg | raildo, VINOD_, it is not unreasonable to get the code in during J3 | 16:58 |
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| morganfainberg | raildo, VINOD_, just need to get the rest of the spec (it's not too far off) agreed on and the code reviews started | 16:58 |
| VINOD_ | sajeesh: So, then we need to be hurry up in preparing the blueprint with the new discussed features on quota as fast as possible | 16:59 |
| VINOD_ | morganfainberg: thanks | 16:59 |
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| sajeesh | vinod it will be ready within two days | 16:59 |
| VINOD_ | sajeesh: thanks | 16:59 |
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| sajeesh | but before publishing we have to do an internal review | 17:00 |
| schwicke | meeting time is over | 17:00 |
| raildo | ok | 17:00 |
| VINOD_ | thanks to all | 17:00 |
| Nirbhay_ | good bye to all | 17:00 |
| schwicke | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Jul 25 17:00:32 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hierarchical_multitenancy/2014/hierarchical_multitenancy.2014-07-25-16.02.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hierarchical_multitenancy/2014/hierarchical_multitenancy.2014-07-25-16.02.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hierarchical_multitenancy/2014/hierarchical_multitenancy.2014-07-25-16.02.log.html | 17:00 |
| schwicke | thanks to all! | 17:00 |
| schwicke | bon weekend! | 17:00 |
| VINOD_ | bye all..have a great weekend | 17:00 |
| raildo | bye all | 17:00 |
| schwicke | for those who joined late please check the logs of the meeting! | 17:01 |
| sajeesh | ok,thanks | 17:01 |
| sajeesh | have a nice weekend | 17:01 |
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