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| yamahata | hi | 04:59 |
|---|---|---|
| s3wong | hello | 05:00 |
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| yamahata | Is there bob melander and harren? | 05:01 |
| s3wong | yamahata: did they say they are going to join this meeting? | 05:01 |
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| yamahata | s3wong: I thought so. | 05:02 |
| s3wong | Let's wait for couple minutes then | 05:02 |
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| yamahata | Hello again. | 05:07 |
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| yamahata | Bob is there? | 05:07 |
| bmelande | Hello Isaku, Bob@ cisco here | 05:07 |
| hareeshpc | Hi | 05:07 |
| hareeshpc | Hi isaku | 05:07 |
| s3wong | Hello | 05:07 |
| yamahata | Great. Let's start the meeting | 05:07 |
| yamahata | #startmeeting neutron/servicevm | 05:07 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 6 05:07:49 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yamahata. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 05:07 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 05:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron/servicevm)" | 05:07 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_servicevm' | 05:07 |
| yamahata | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ServiceVM | 05:08 |
| yamahata | For agenda | 05:08 |
| yamahata | #topic status update | 05:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "status update (Meeting topic: neutron/servicevm)" | 05:08 | |
| yamahata | In the community, there is a consensus that servicevm should be an independent project moving out of Neutron | 05:09 |
| yamahata | A session will be held at the next summit. | 05:09 |
| bmelande | Last day, last session :-) | 05:09 |
| s3wong | still consider a Neutron design session | 05:10 |
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| yamahata | Yea, the last session. So we don't have discussion time after the session. | 05:10 |
| yamahata | Wondering unconference before neutron session. i.e. Monday or Tuesday | 05:10 |
| hareeshpc | yes..it is a good idea.. | 05:10 |
| s3wong | need to go there early to grab an unconference slot | 05:11 |
| hareeshpc | friday evening is too late to get some discussion | 05:11 |
| yamahata | Does monday works for you? | 05:11 |
| hareeshpc | yes | 05:11 |
| yamahata | I'm arriving there on Sunday. | 05:11 |
| bmelande | works for me too | 05:12 |
| yamahata | Great | 05:12 |
| s3wong | Monday is good, I only have a group-policy get-together from 2-3pm | 05:12 |
| yamahata | Okay. Then morning or evening? | 05:13 |
| s3wong | around 5pm maybe, before dinner? | 05:13 |
| hareeshpc | ya | 05:14 |
| bmelande | Yes that could work | 05:14 |
| yamahata | #agreed unconference Monday 5pm- | 05:14 |
| yamahata | I'm not sure about the place. Maybe we can secure the unconference room. At worst developer loundge. | 05:15 |
| s3wong | whatever goes to the unconference board earliest sign up for the Monday 5pm slot :-) | 05:15 |
| s3wong | s/whatever/whoever | 05:15 |
| yamahata | nice idea. | 05:15 |
| yamahata | #action whoever geots to the unconference board and secure the room | 05:15 |
| hareeshpc | ok | 05:16 |
| yamahata | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/servicevm | 05:16 |
| yamahata | It's summit etherpad | 05:16 |
| yamahata | #action yamahata update the etherpad | 05:16 |
| yamahata | The etherpad already include the schedule at the real session. | 05:17 |
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| hareeshpc | We need to add more details into the etherpad. hows your plan and division of work to do that? | 05:17 |
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| hareeshpc | or what all should go there? | 05:18 |
| yamahata | I think, at the session we would discuss a plan for shortterm and longterm. | 05:19 |
| bmelande | Sorting out and getting agreement on that is important yes. | 05:19 |
| yamahata | I mean what Cisco want to include in Juno and introducing new independent project and its transition plan | 05:19 |
| yamahata | bmelande: agree. Do you have items? | 05:19 |
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| yamahata | As for long term plan, tasks to do is terminology and api/datamodel design, determine review way with stackforge | 05:20 |
| bmelande | Basically what is covered by the blueprints that we now have on review | 05:21 |
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| yamahata | bmelande: I think it's for Juno plan, right? | 05:22 |
| bmelande | For review process mayby adopt the neutron way from day 1, is that feasible= | 05:22 |
| bmelande | ? | 05:22 |
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| yamahata | bmelande: Yes, that's exactly what I'm proposing. | 05:22 |
| yamahata | For spec review, we can follow xxx-specs way | 05:23 |
| yamahata | with gerrit | 05:23 |
| s3wong | yes, so far, in Neutron, it proves to be much more efficient (gerrit for spec review) | 05:23 |
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| bmelande | yamahata: Yes, exactly. As a gap filler and then we can transition to use flavor framework, any new modular l3 routing plugin and the framework of the new stackforge project | 05:23 |
| s3wong | service context will also likely go away (well, it was never accepted anyway) | 05:25 |
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| yamahata | bmelande: those are the gaps. the framework of the new stackforge would be the biggest issue. | 05:25 |
| yamahata | bmelande: your blueprint tries to introduce new REST API in Neutron. So people would ask the transition plan. | 05:26 |
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| yamahata | Maybe it will be discussed at the summit, we should prepare for the answer | 05:27 |
| bmelande | yamahata: yes, it does right now. | 05:28 |
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| yamahata | it's too big topic, we can continue to discuss on mailing list or else | 05:29 |
| bmelande | yamahata: it would be possible to replace that in a gap fill by config files | 05:29 |
| yamahata | bmelande: sounds great. It could be in blueprint | 05:29 |
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| hareeshpc | The config agent and its associated components are still in neutron, right? | 05:31 |
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| balajip | hi | 05:31 |
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| balajip | anybody on servicevm discussion here | 05:32 |
| yamahata | For short term, yes I think. In long term, it will be split into common library and device specific code in Neutron, I think. | 05:32 |
| s3wong | Yes, yamahata, hareeshpc, bmelande, and s3wong | 05:32 |
| s3wong | that was for balajip | 05:32 |
| yamahata | balajip: yes. | 05:33 |
| balajip | ok cool | 05:33 |
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| yamahata | We agreed unconference on Monday 5pm-. | 05:33 |
| yamahata | balajip: will you come to Atlanta? | 05:33 |
| yamahata | #topic session agenda | 05:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "session agenda (Meeting topic: neutron/servicevm)" | 05:34 | |
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| yamahata | We are discussing agenda of the session | 05:34 |
| balajip | yamahata:no, we have freeze on travel right now. | 05:34 |
| balajip | ok | 05:34 |
| yamahata | balajip: that's pitty. | 05:34 |
| balajip | yamahata:so every body in the group agreed to make servicevm as another project? | 05:35 |
| yamahata | balajip: From the discussion of openstack-dev, I understand it's the consensus. | 05:35 |
| yamahata | No one opposed | 05:36 |
| balajip | ok..good. | 05:36 |
| yamahata | Back to the agenda. | 05:36 |
| bmelande | But there needs to be a smooth way to transition to that | 05:36 |
| balajip | yamahata:so is it like servicevm will be in incubation stage? | 05:36 |
| yamahata | balajip: That's the plan. I'll create the repo on stackforge after the summit | 05:37 |
| balajip | ok..thanks.. | 05:37 |
| yamahata | I added the section at the etherpad. | 05:37 |
| balajip | sorry to drag you from discussion agenda.. | 05:38 |
| bmelande | Are the folks engage in other services that have expressed interest? Or are they perhaps not aware of this? | 05:38 |
| yamahata | bmelande: hareeshpc what else topic do you want to add? | 05:38 |
| s3wong | bmelande: I am part of the advanced service subgroup, and we are interested in the progress of serviceVM | 05:38 |
| yamahata | bmelande: So far only unified agent people expressed interest in the context of oslo.messaging | 05:39 |
| bmelande | s3wong: Yes, though I was more thinking of other openstack projects. Are they awware/interested? | 05:39 |
| yamahata | Nothing else from Neutron project as long as I know. | 05:40 |
| yamahata | * other than | 05:40 |
| s3wong | bmelande: I vaguely remember someone from Nova has ask yamahata to put the serviceVM project to Nova on the ML | 05:40 |
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| yamahata | s3wong: I could have missed it. I'll check it later. | 05:41 |
| bmelande | s3wong: aha, ok. | 05:41 |
| gduan | Hi, this is Gary, I'm mostly working on FWaaS | 05:42 |
| yamahata | gduan: hi | 05:42 |
| gduan | I am interested in serviceVM too | 05:42 |
| gduan | yamahata: hi | 05:43 |
| bmelande | gduan: Hi Gary bob melander@cisco here too. | 05:43 |
| gduan | Hi, Bob | 05:44 |
| balajip | s3wong:I remember Kyle proposed to make it as independent project based on the discussion like adding to the Nova etc. | 05:44 |
| balajip | gudan:Hi Gary balajip@freescale here | 05:44 |
| bmelande | I'd say it belongs more in Neutron given current use cases | 05:44 |
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| s3wong | balajip: yes, when I saw mestery 's email - I thought it was based on interests from other OpenStack projects outside of Neutron | 05:44 |
| bmelande | s3wong: but now it sounds like the extent of that interest is unclear | 05:45 |
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| s3wong | bmelande: right. I have not seen any follow-up from Nova on this | 05:46 |
| s3wong | bmelande: so I don't doubt the initial interests would likely be from Neutron community only | 05:47 |
| balajip | s3wong:IMHO it would be better to have it as OpenStack Project as servicevm needs to have VM and Network information | 05:47 |
| bmelande | In general, I think it is important to keep a close tie to Neutron since that is where the use cases are which are best understood | 05:47 |
| hareeshpc | bmelande: thats my view too. | 05:47 |
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| s3wong | bmelande: as long as serviceVM module doesn't make Nova calls directly :-) | 05:48 |
| balajip | bmelande:it needs work closely with Nova and Neturon services. | 05:48 |
| bmelande | Yes, that is true. At the moment we don't use more than novaclient | 05:48 |
| yamahata | bmelande: right. | 05:49 |
| bmelande | Though it would be nice to be able to influence the scheduling of VMs used for Neutron service. We do some experimental work on that. | 05:49 |
| yamahata | bmelande: Do you have any discussion against moving out of Neutron? | 05:49 |
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| balajip | bmelande:agreed. | 05:49 |
| s3wong | bmelande: that's policy based scheduling - there are at least several Nova projects on this | 05:50 |
| yamahata | bmelande: I think, the scheduling would be converged into Gantt project. It would take a while though. | 05:50 |
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| bmelande | yamahata: in our implementation we have reasoned like this: there are several essentially independently running service plugins that want to implement devices/backends that are multi-service capabe | 05:51 |
| bmelande | s/capabe/capable | 05:52 |
| bmelande | There then needs to be some way of keeping track of those devices, in particular VMs, and their lifecycle. | 05:52 |
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| yamahata | bmelande: Agree with closely tieing servicevm/device manager with Neutron | 05:53 |
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| bmelande | Then there is the "plugging" aspects which I think creates strong ties to neutron | 05:53 |
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| s3wong | yamahata: also serviceVM needs to conform to service insertion model to enable traffic steering and service chaining to operate on serviceVMs | 05:54 |
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| bmelande | I have a easier time to see how things relate and can interwork when inside Neutron, implications when they are further "apart" is less clear to me at this point. | 05:55 |
| gduan | bmelande: is your concern that different plugins, for example, VPN, FW, have to sync calls to the device? | 05:55 |
| yamahata | I agree with those discussion. | 05:55 |
| bmelande | That is why I think we should have a short-term perspective and longer-one and transition in a good way (whatever that is). | 05:55 |
| yamahata | But the issue is to convince other developers. Not here | 05:55 |
| balajip | bmelande:is it like the servicevm will be used for both devices/backends and as well virtual forms [network services in VM] | 05:55 |
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| bmelande | balaji: what I mean is that service VM can host Neutron routers, Neutron FW, etc. | 05:56 |
| yamahata | Otherwise we wouldn't get review and it would be difficult to make progress | 05:56 |
| bmelande | yamahata: Yes, I realize that too. | 05:56 |
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| balajip | bmelande:so we are proposing to move neutron routers, neutron fw etc to servicevm? | 05:57 |
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| bmelande | gduan: yes, all those plugins are rather independent. | 05:57 |
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| yamahata | If we want to stay in Neutron in long term, we have to fight in openstack-dev openly. | 05:58 |
| bmelande | balaji: No, servicevm is just one type of "host" for such service instances. | 05:58 |
| bmelande | I | 05:58 |
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| balajip | bmelande:ok | 05:59 |
| gduan | bmelande: in our implementation, we sync FW calls and Router calls to one process | 05:59 |
| hareeshpc | I think bmelande is suggesting that we stay in neutron enough to catch all the finer details and requirements from neutron | 05:59 |
| s3wong | yamahata: did mestery give a concrete reason to move serviceVM out of Neutron? | 05:59 |
| yamahata | s3wong: The reasoning is that it's generic enough to serve project other than Neutron. | 06:00 |
| gduan | bmelande: this question is if this logic can be generalized and should it be in Neutron or serviceVM? | 06:00 |
| yamahata | And some backed it. I felt It's quite difficult to fight against it. | 06:00 |
| balajip | bmelande:i think if we want to increase the scope for servicevm project, some thing like overlapping with Neutron as well , then we need to have broader consensus on this | 06:00 |
| yamahata | Anyway we are running out of time. We could continue. | 06:01 |
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| yamahata | The action item is | 06:02 |
| bmelande | wait, so I don't confuse things here. I'm not argueing a serviceVM project should handle/implement network service. That belongs in Neutron | 06:02 |
| yamahata | fix agenda for the session in etherpad. We'll continue off line. I'll send a mail. | 06:02 |
| hareeshpc | One quick question. Does configuring a VM for a particular network service still part of Neutron or part of service VM? | 06:02 |
| s3wong | bmelande: certainly | 06:02 |
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| balajip | bmelande:thanks for clarification | 06:04 |
| gduan | hareeshpc: "configuring" means rest calls to the backend device? | 06:04 |
| hareeshpc | yes. | 06:04 |
| gduan | IMO, it should be in Neutron | 06:04 |
| hareeshpc | the driver component and also an agent to fetch data from plugin | 06:04 |
| s3wong | hareeshpc: that's definitely Neutron | 06:05 |
| gduan | right | 06:05 |
| hareeshpc | ok | 06:05 |
| s3wong | hareeshpc: driver and agent are service specific, actually - even vendor specific | 06:06 |
| hareeshpc | s3wong: indeed | 06:06 |
| gduan | What I think about ServiceVM is to maintain VM's lifecycle based on service requests | 06:06 |
| hareeshpc | but they are closely tied to the VM being configured, which seems out of Neutron | 06:06 |
| s3wong | hareeshpc: now, what I can see is if tenants are bringing in their own service, which isn't supported by Neutron | 06:06 |
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| bmelande | gduan: Yes, that is definitely a core task for serviceVM | 06:07 |
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| gduan | s3wong: I think service insertion BP considers the external services, right? | 06:08 |
| gduan | s3wong: by using service port, that's one of proposals? | 06:08 |
| s3wong | gduan: it does, that's when the VM needs to register to have a ServiceBase object to identify its connection points | 06:09 |
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| yamahata | s3wong: great. Pointer of it? | 06:10 |
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| s3wong | yamahata: you mean the document? | 06:11 |
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| yamahata | s3wong: service insertion BP | 06:11 |
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| bmelande | s3wong: I've looked at that service port doc. I was unsure how I would model a VM with a set of VIFs that carry VLAN tagged packets so that a service instance port maps to a logical interface for one of the VLANs | 06:11 |
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| s3wong | yamahata: SumitNaiksatam has the high level doc in gerrit reivew, the service insertion doc is here: #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AlEockwk0Ir267U9uFDc-Q6vYsWiAcAoKtCJM0Jc5UI/edit | 06:12 |
| gduan | bmelande s3wong: I don't think that's covered | 06:12 |
| s3wong | will put it in gerrit prior to the summit | 06:12 |
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| yamahata | Anyway I close the meeting once. we could continue. | 06:13 |
| yamahata | #endmeeting | 06:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 06:13 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 6 06:13:04 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 06:13 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_servicevm/2014/neutron_servicevm.2014-05-06-05.07.html | 06:13 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_servicevm/2014/neutron_servicevm.2014-05-06-05.07.txt | 06:13 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_servicevm/2014/neutron_servicevm.2014-05-06-05.07.log.html | 06:13 |
| s3wong | bmelande: that is exactly one of the points we have discussed. We were actually thinking more on a hardware appliance | 06:13 |
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| s3wong | in that case, when there are several interfaces on the hardware appliance, how are we supposed to map a service port (tenant) to the different interfaces of the hardware appliance? | 06:14 |
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| bmelande | s3wong: could you perhaps cover that case by allowuing the external_port to be a neutron port too | 06:14 |
| bmelande | That is basically how we do it in our implemenation we have | 06:14 |
| bmelande | Along with information about segmentation, i.e., VLAN tag | 06:15 |
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| s3wong | bmelande: in that case, you may have to change a Neutron port property, i.e., no MAC and IP address assignments | 06:15 |
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| s3wong | service port is supposed to be the wrapper to allow it to either be a neutron port, external port, or even just a connection point to a service | 06:16 |
| s3wong | In any case, I shouldn't hijack the serviceVM meeting. We can perhaps discuss more f2f next Monday | 06:18 |
| s3wong | Looking forward to meeting you guys in Atlanta! | 06:18 |
| bmelande | yes | 06:18 |
| gduan | s3wong: I think service port is a logic presentation | 06:18 |
| yamahata | Looking forward to meeting you. | 06:18 |
| yamahata | bmelande: Is it okay for more minutes? | 06:19 |
| bmelande | yes, but Nova VM VIF needs a port to plugin into | 06:19 |
| bmelande | Sure | 06:19 |
| yamahata | Regarding to terminology, I found you introduced new ones. | 06:19 |
| s3wong | gduan: it is. The intent is to have a more unified logical resources for insertion/steering/chaining purposes | 06:19 |
| yamahata | I created the wiki page, can you please have a look at it and add your terminologies? | 06:19 |
| yamahata | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ServiceVM/terminology | 06:20 |
| yamahata | And some action items here https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ServiceVM | 06:20 |
| s3wong | bmelande: correct; in serviceVM, there needs to be a Neutron port to work. Do you foresee having a serviceVM created by admin but consumed by tenant, for example (one case where we need external port to connect to the VM) | 06:21 |
| bmelande | yamahata: yes, we'll update. | 06:21 |
| yamahata | bmelande: hareeshpc Are you okay with agenda? Let's continue on openstack-dev | 06:22 |
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| bmelande | s3wong: we have the current use case: csr1kv and n1kv working together. N1kv plugin support vLAN trunks networks where different Neutrion networks can be visible using different VLAN tags | 06:22 |
| bmelande | So a VM can receviev VLAN tagged packets (one VLAN tag per Neutron Network that is trunked) | 06:23 |
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| bmelande | Then to plug the VM using Nova, we need to create ports on the trunk networks. | 06:23 |
| hareeshpc | :yamahata: yes | 06:24 |
| s3wong | bmelande: in that case, do you view CSR1Kv and/or Nexus 1000v as a network service, or a network driver (something with a plugin)? | 06:24 |
| bmelande | Then when a service instance, say a Neutron router, is plugged into a Neutron subnet, we need to create a logical VLAN sub-interface inside the VM, and add the Neutron subnet/network in question so that is gets trunked on the trunk network | 06:24 |
| bmelande | The service is still Neutron l3 routing service , Neutron FW service etc with service instances hosted insiude a CSR1kv. | 06:25 |
| bmelande | Then this "plugging" strategy only works with n1kv plugin since no other plugin right now supports trunking. | 06:26 |
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| bmelande | For other plugins, we'd have to use e.g. VIF hot-plugging. | 06:26 |
| s3wong | bmlande: in that case, Nexus 1000v is the network driver/plugin. It needs to manage network connectivity with the VM, which probably means your VM needs to be running on a hypervisor with Nexus1000v running also, right? | 06:26 |
| bmelande | In our current implementation we have tried to capture the "plugging" strategy, which is dependent on the plugin capability in "plugging" drivers | 06:27 |
| s3wong | bmelande: I see, you want serviceVM to also implement some network driver function then? | 06:28 |
| bmelande | Yes, the n1kv plugin for Neutron is used | 06:28 |
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| gduan | bmelande: I think you can do this because n1kv is a l2 driver | 06:29 |
| bmelande | gduan: yes | 06:29 |
| gduan | bmelande: if I am VM that wants to work with ML2 | 06:29 |
| bmelande | gduan: with another pliugin like say, openvswitch plugin, we'd have to use something else like hotplug. | 06:29 |
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| gduan | I mean ovs driver in ml2 | 06:30 |
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| bmelande | gduan: same then since ml2 lacks this kind of trunking capability | 06:30 |
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| bmelande | gduan: we'd have to use hot-plug (to support dynamic add/remove router interface actions) | 06:31 |
| gduan | and it shouldn't be part of serviceVM either. | 06:31 |
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| gduan | I mean trunking capability | 06:31 |
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| yamahata | There is a blueprint for vlan trunking/l2 gateway. But no activity so far. | 06:33 |
| bmelande | s3wong, gduan: No I don't want serviceVM to implmnent network driver function but it needs to know how to tell Neutron to "please add this network to this port (or rather add this network to the trunk network that the VM port uses" | 06:33 |
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| gduan | s3wong: one thing I am not very clear is, there seems to be a binding process between service port and external port, how does it work? | 06:33 |
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| bmelande | It is analogous to how Nova has the vif-drivers. | 06:33 |
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| s3wong | gduan: via agent from a service telling us what external port belongs to this backend | 06:34 |
| s3wong | bmelande: having "trunk network" on a VM port sounds like a Neutron extension | 06:36 |
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| gduan | s3wong: for example, I create a service port on a subnet, saying that this is the place that service should be plugged | 06:39 |
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| gduan | s3wong: sorry, I'd better read the spec more before asking your questions. | 06:41 |
| yamahata | Just to make it clear, May 13 will be skipped. The next IRC meeting is on May 20. | 06:41 |
| s3wong | gduan: it's OK. Perhaps we can discuss further during advanced service meeting (Wed) or f2f next week if you are going to Atlanta | 06:42 |
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| s3wong | yamahata: yes, I don't think anyone expects any OpenStack IRC meetings next week :-) | 06:42 |
| bmelande | s3wong: yes, and trunking was discussed during last summit. But no broader progress ev e¨ | 06:43 |
| bmelande | s3wong: even though there are some blueprints around with slightly different approached. | 06:43 |
| s3wong | bmelande: you should pursue further - that said, trunking doesn't seem like something that would belong to serviceVM | 06:44 |
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| s3wong | Anyway, guys, Thanks for the feedback. Kanzhe and I will further update the service insertion spec and can hopefully clarify the points and address your concerns | 06:46 |
| s3wong | See you guys next week! | 06:46 |
| gduan | s3wong: see you | 06:47 |
| s3wong | bye! | 06:47 |
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| bauzas | #startmeeting gantt | 14:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 6 14:59:50 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bauzas. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 14:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'gantt' | 14:59 |
| PaulMurray | hi bauzas | 15:00 |
| bauzas | hi all | 15:00 |
| jay-lau-513 | hi | 15:00 |
| toan-tran | hi all | 15:00 |
| bauzas | n0ano is off today, so I'm chairing this one | 15:00 |
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| toan-tran | just before we start, I would like to add into 'Open' a topic | 15:00 |
| toan-tran | on a new blueprint that we proposed | 15:00 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: sure, go ahead | 15:00 |
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| bauzas | we can even create a dedicated topic for your needs ;) | 15:01 |
| toan-tran | :) | 15:01 |
| bauzas | could I just have the title ? | 15:01 |
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| toan-tran | cpu allocation per flavor | 15:01 |
| toan-tran | cpu allocation ratio per flavor | 15:01 |
| toan-tran | :) | 15:02 |
| bauzas | ok, keep me aware if I'm forgetting it :) | 15:02 |
| toan-tran | will do :) | 15:02 |
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| bauzas | let's start | 15:02 |
| bauzas | hello all | 15:02 |
| * johnthetubaguy waves | 15:02 | |
| bauzas | #topic Actions items from previous meetings | 15:02 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions items from previous meetings (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:02 | |
| bauzas | (argh, made a typo) | 15:03 |
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| bauzas | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-04-29-15.00.html | 15:03 |
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| bauzas | a few actions were created | 15:03 |
| bauzas | YorikSar, you there ? | 15:03 |
| YorikSar | bauzas: o/ | 15:03 |
| bauzas | YorikSar: cool | 15:04 |
| bauzas | an action was open for you | 15:04 |
| bauzas | to create the nova-specs bp | 15:04 |
| bauzas | I saw it | 15:04 |
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| YorikSar | I've put first version of the spec to the Gerrit. | 15:04 |
| bauzas | cool, nice work | 15:04 |
| bauzas | could you please give us the link ? | 15:04 |
| YorikSar | I've added those who I could find in last meeting logs to reviewers | 15:04 |
| bauzas | cool | 15:04 |
| bauzas | YorikSar: nice catch | 15:04 |
| YorikSar | #link https://review.openstack.org/92128 | 15:04 |
| bauzas | thanks | 15:04 |
| YorikSar | (I hope that'll work for meeting bot) | 15:05 |
| bauzas | it will | 15:05 |
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| bauzas | let's discuss it on a separate topic | 15:05 |
| YorikSar | I'm looking forward to reviews. I've never put together a blueprint with this new template in repo | 15:05 |
| bauzas | ok, n0ano also had action to look over https://review.openstack.org/82778 | 15:05 |
| YorikSar | bauzas: Sure | 15:05 |
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| bauzas | I guess he had no time | 15:06 |
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| bauzas | IMHO, prolonging this action doesn't make sense as we're 1 week close to the summit | 15:07 |
| bauzas | so, let's move to the next topic | 15:07 |
| bauzas | unless someone is feeling different :) | 15:07 |
| toan-tran | no, please proceed :) | 15:07 |
| bauzas | ok | 15:07 |
| bauzas | #topic Status on forklift efforts | 15:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status on forklift efforts (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:07 | |
| bauzas | well, far less progress here, I was really busy by my vacations | 15:08 |
| bauzas | but still, there 3 things you need to know | 15:08 |
| bauzas | #link https://review.openstack.org/82133 is merged | 15:08 |
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| bauzas | so I'll focus my attention on delivering first implementation by the next weeks | 15:09 |
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| bauzas | of course, progress will be impacted by Summit | 15:09 |
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| toan-tran | bauzas: super | 15:09 |
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| bauzas | implementation of this blueprint can be found here as draft : | 15:09 |
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| bauzas | #link https://review.openstack.org/82778 | 15:10 |
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| toan-tran | bauzas: just a question | 15:10 |
| bauzas | sure | 15:10 |
| bauzas | this blueprint is targeted for Juno-1 | 15:10 |
| toan-tran | in the srt you said that only aggregate tables & vm tables are concerned | 15:10 |
| toan-tran | what about host_state? | 15:10 |
| toan-tran | computes_* tables? | 15:10 |
| bauzas | I haven't said that in this blueprint ;,) | 15:11 |
| bauzas | that's another blueprint, targeted for Juno-2 | 15:11 |
| toan-tran | oops, sorry, wrong blueprint :) | 15:11 |
| bauzas | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/89893/ | 15:11 |
| bauzas | but indeed, there is room for discussion here | 15:12 |
| bauzas | so, yes, HostState is a class, not a DB table | 15:12 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: the table is compute_* | 15:12 |
| bauzas | HostState is persisted by compute_nodes | 15:12 |
| YorikSar | At least for now... | 15:13 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: I'm pretty well interested in your feedback for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/89893/ | 15:13 |
| bauzas | YorikSar: at least until no-db-scheduler is merged yes :) | 15:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: yeah, I will take a look, interested to get this reviewed before the summit | 15:13 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: I'm planning to discuss over it by the Gantt session | 15:13 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: because there are some performance concerns as reviews | 15:13 |
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| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: if you look at the discussion in the previous patchset | 15:14 |
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| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: so, I think that's a good fit for trying to get opinions before Summit | 15:14 |
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| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: agreed, its a good topic to discuss, and there are a few performance things that worry me at least, but I feel there are some good options to fix those | 15:15 |
| bauzas | indeed, and that's good place for discussing it at Summit | 15:15 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yup | 15:15 |
| bauzas | ok, any other questions about these 2 blueprints ? | 15:15 |
| toan-tran | some filters use compute_nodes tables | 15:16 |
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| toan-tran | which is updated by nova periodic tasks | 15:16 |
| toan-tran | how to separate them? | 15:16 |
| bauzas | compute_nodes is planned to stay where it is :) | 15:16 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: then how corefilter & ramfilter work then? | 15:16 |
| bauzas | thanks to the first bp (sched-lib), RT will update compute_nodes seamlessly | 15:17 |
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| bauzas | compute_nodes is planned to stay on the Gantt side of the whiteline | 15:17 |
| bauzas | so filters won't be impacted | 15:17 |
| bauzas | RT will be | 15:17 |
| bauzas | hence the sched-lib blueprint | 15:18 |
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| toan-tran | ok | 15:18 |
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| toan-tran | another question: how this bp & no-db work together? | 15:18 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: that's an excellent question | 15:18 |
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| johnthetubaguy | toan-tran: I guess the nova-spec review for no-db should sort that out, it changes things slightly | 15:19 |
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| bauzas | toan-tran: and as for all excellent questions, it doesn't have an answer yet :) | 15:19 |
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| toan-tran | bauzas: can anything that this bp pull out be used in no-db? | 15:19 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: AIUI, nope | 15:19 |
| toan-tran | meaning: instead of putting it in a separated db, put it in memcache? | 15:19 |
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| bauzas | toan-tran: ideally, access to DB should be proxified | 15:20 |
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| bauzas | toan-tran: so whatever the backend is, the calls would stay the same | 15:20 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: +1 | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I think the no-db scheduler will be a new scheduler-lib, if we get it right | 15:20 |
| bauzas | woah | 15:21 |
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| bauzas | good place for discussion over here then | 15:21 |
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| toan-tran | YorikSar: what do you think? | 15:21 |
| bauzas | I was just thinking that instead of calling db_api.whatever() we were calling nodb.whatever() | 15:21 |
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| toan-tran | bauzas: well, it's more complicated than that | 15:22 |
| bauzas | well, I love complications :) | 15:22 |
| toan-tran | db_api has its own model | 15:22 |
| toan-tran | I don't know if memcache has similar thing | 15:22 |
| YorikSar | no-db scheduler only delivers host stats to the scheduler. I guess it can be a start for a scheduler-lib | 15:22 |
| bauzas | hence the word 'proxy' :) | 15:23 |
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| bauzas | YorikSar: have you validated scheduler-lib interfaces ? | 15:23 |
| YorikSar | In current state it "simply" replaces calls like db_api.put_my_state and db_api.get_all_states with requests to synchronizer. | 15:23 |
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| YorikSar | bauzas: Nope. | 15:24 |
| bauzas | but calls to db_api.put_my_stats will now go to sched_lib.update_stats() | 15:24 |
| YorikSar | I guess I should take a closer look to all those blueprints. | 15:24 |
| bauzas | so I think you could take use of sched-lib as facade for your own implem | 15:25 |
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| bauzas | so that the interface would stay the same | 15:25 |
| YorikSar | bauzas: Then we'll replace whatever is inside sched_lib.update_stats with calls with call to synchronizer. | 15:25 |
| YorikSar | bauzas: Yes, exactly. | 15:25 |
| bauzas | that's my idea yes | 15:25 |
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| bauzas | well, at least it should be optional and flag-driven :D | 15:26 |
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| bauzas | as I said, a common facade for 2 implems | 15:26 |
| YorikSar | bauzas: We'll see ;) | 15:26 |
| bauzas | YorikSar: I suggest you to look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82133/19/specs/juno/scheduler-lib.rst | 15:27 |
| bauzas | you'll find the specs for the interface | 15:27 |
| YorikSar | I think once people take a look at what those changes actually do they won't be afraid of switching on-the-fly. | 15:27 |
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| bauzas | maybe it's worth moving from this topic to the no-db sched one ? | 15:27 |
| bauzas | so we could easily discuss on this | 15:27 |
| bauzas | unless someone wants to talk about sched forklift ? | 15:28 |
| YorikSar | bauzas: I'll take a look at blueprints tomorrow. | 15:28 |
| bauzas | and I also have to review yours | 15:28 |
| bauzas | #topic no-db scheduler | 15:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "no-db scheduler (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:29 | |
| bauzas | #action bauzas to review https://review.openstack.org/92128 | 15:29 |
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| bauzas | YorikSar: do you have other things to raise over this topic ? | 15:30 |
| bauzas | I mean, about design or queries? | 15:30 |
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| YorikSar | bauzas: I guess, I'll be waiting for reviews on spec. | 15:30 |
| YorikSar | I've came onto one problem though. It's about compute_nodes you've mentioned. | 15:31 |
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| bauzas | YorikSar: sure ? | 15:31 |
| bauzas | YorikSar: what's your problem ? | 15:31 |
| YorikSar | I think they should go. :) | 15:31 |
| bauzas | lol | 15:31 |
| YorikSar | They hold mostly info used for scheduling only. | 15:31 |
| bauzas | then, I would have to say to leave them where it is :) | 15:32 |
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| toan-tran | bauzas: I remember Boris discussed it long ago | 15:32 |
| YorikSar | And when I took a look at what should be moved to one big JSON state, it seemed to me that all fields there have nothing (little) to do with the rest of Nova. | 15:32 |
| toan-tran | saying that the Synchronizer will take care of that | 15:32 |
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| bauzas | mmm interesting view | 15:33 |
| bauzas | if you look at the Juno-2 bp for isolating DB scheduler | 15:33 |
| bauzas | I have a problem over here | 15:33 |
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| bauzas | I mean, we say that scheduler should not access other tables but the ones he manages for persistence | 15:34 |
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| YorikSar | There are places where compute_nodes are requested along with stats just for couple fields stored in them. I'm not sure how to handle that. | 15:34 |
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| bauzas | but the problem is that scheduler is directly reading other Nova objects states, like aggregates | 15:34 |
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| * YorikSar adding another blueprint to the reading list... | 15:34 | |
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| bauzas | so, if we say that compute_nodes should get rid off | 15:34 |
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| bauzas | with a big JSON state | 15:35 |
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| bauzas | that means that related objects should also be considered as this | 15:35 |
| bauzas | aggregates and instances at least | 15:35 |
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| bauzas | well, to be honest, JSON and DB are 2 edges of the same thing | 15:36 |
| YorikSar | bauzas: I think we should separate data that relates to hosts from data that relates to instances. | 15:36 |
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| bauzas | except the persistence thing of course | 15:36 |
| YorikSar | So aggregates are for hosts, so they should go to (dark) scheduler side. | 15:36 |
| PaulMurray | YorikSar, is the instance state you are thinging of independent of host | 15:36 |
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| bauzas | could you please keep it in mind for your blueprint ? | 15:36 |
| bauzas | I'm also wondering how no-db sched will manage extensible RT | 15:37 |
| bauzas | as the bp is now validated, unless I'm wrong PaulMurray? | 15:38 |
| PaulMurray | bauzas, waiting for a second +2 | 15:38 |
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| bauzas | PaulMurray: ok cool | 15:38 |
| YorikSar | PaulMurray: I guess scheduler will have to manage a list of resources anyway. So at least list of instances on the host will remain in scheduler. | 15:38 |
| PaulMurray | bauzas, most code is done - just the spec to go :) | 15:38 |
| bauzas | PaulMurray: I saw that RT using objects is also validated as bp | 15:39 |
| PaulMurray | bauzas, yp | 15:39 |
| bauzas | PaulMurray: yep, I had no chance to review latest pachsets | 15:39 |
| PaulMurray | s/yp/yep/ | 15:39 |
| bauzas | (about extensible RT I mean) | 15:39 |
| PaulMurray | bauzas, my biggest problem was I had a url longer than 79 characters | 15:40 |
| bauzas | so, YorikSar that means I think that the no-db sched bp should only focus on access to DB and proxy them | 15:40 |
| bauzas | PaulMurray: oh bad, have you had -1 for this ? | 15:41 |
| PaulMurray | from jenkins | 15:41 |
| bauzas | PaulMurray: dammit | 15:41 |
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| toan-tran | PaulMurray: that's pretty much the problem with jenkins | 15:41 |
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| toan-tran | :D | 15:41 |
| PaulMurray | no worries - I made the world pep8 compliant so I could use a shorter url to refer to | 15:41 |
| bauzas | is there a PEP8 gate now for nova-specs ? | 15:41 |
| bauzas | wasn't aware of | 15:42 |
| YorikSar | bauzas: Yes. It's just proxying calls that used to target DB to wibbly-wobbly vortex that just delivering data to scheduler. | 15:42 |
| PaulMurray | bauzas, no, not really, just 79 character width limit | 15:42 |
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| bauzas | YorikSar: ok cool so that should be not impacting other bps | 15:42 |
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| bauzas | provided the DB API remains the same :) | 15:42 |
| YorikSar | PaulMurray: I've pasted some long URLs to my spec and Jenkins never complained. Mb you should have only URL on the line to make it pass?.. | 15:42 |
| bauzas | YorikSar: +1 | 15:43 |
| bauzas | YorikSar: I never went thru this problem | 15:43 |
| PaulMurray | YorikSar, maybe - the check only failed today - it past last week | 15:43 |
| bauzas | strange | 15:43 |
| bauzas | ok, could we consider to move to the Design sessions topic ? | 15:43 |
| YorikSar | Maybe they've changed coins in cointosser | 15:43 |
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| YorikSar | bauzas: Surt | 15:44 |
| bauzas | #topic Juno Summit design sessions | 15:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Juno Summit design sessions (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:44 | |
| bauzas | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Gantt-summit-sessions | 15:45 |
| bauzas | here is the final planning for scheduler-related sessions | 15:45 |
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| bauzas | I please ask proposers to fill in https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Juno/Etherpads#Nova | 15:46 |
| bauzas | I began to put some ideas in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-nova-gantt-apis | 15:46 |
| bauzas | that's draft of course | 15:46 |
| toan-tran | is there a link for all the session plan? | 15:47 |
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| bauzas | toan-tran: which kind of link do you need ? | 15:48 |
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| toan-tran | well, a link that shows all the date & time of the sessions | 15:48 |
| bauzas | ah | 15:48 |
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| toan-tran | http://junodesignsummit.sched.org/ only shows presentation session, not degisn sessions | 15:48 |
| bauzas | take the sched.org things | 15:48 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: you made confusion ;) | 15:48 |
| jgallard | toan-tran, https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Juno | 15:49 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: http://junodesignsummit.sched.org/ is the Design sumit | 15:49 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: ok :D | 15:49 |
| bauzas | http://openstacksummitmay2014atlanta.sched.org/ is for the regular Openstack Summit | 15:49 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: right :) | 15:50 |
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| bauzas | just a quick reminder that you can see other people's attendance by looking over each person agenda | 15:50 |
| bauzas | like mine http://openstacksummitmay2014atlanta.sched.org/ | 15:51 |
| bauzas | oops | 15:51 |
| bauzas | http://openstacksummitmay2014atlanta.sched.org/sbauza | 15:51 |
| bauzas | etc. | 15:51 |
| PaulMurray | bauzas, also if you put a picture in it makes it a lot easier for people to find you (if you want to be found :) | 15:51 |
| bauzas | PaulMurray: +1 :) | 15:52 |
| bauzas | PaulMurray: even if the picture is 4 years old... | 15:52 |
| PaulMurray | bauzas, by "you" I mean "one" of course | 15:52 |
| PaulMurray | bauzas, all mine are 10 years old | 15:52 |
| bauzas | :) | 15:52 |
| PaulMurray | I still look the same :) | 15:52 |
| bauzas | ok, we still have 2 topics to discuss and 8 mins left | 15:52 |
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| bauzas | sorry for rushing this | 15:52 |
| bauzas | #topic cpu allocation ratio per flavor | 15:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "cpu allocation ratio per flavor (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:53 | |
| bauzas | toan-tran: you're up | 15:53 |
| toan-tran | thanks | 15:53 |
| toan-tran | Here is the spec: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/87213/ | 15:53 |
| toan-tran | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/87213/ | 15:53 |
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| toan-tran | currently the cpu_allocation_ratio is put into the aggregate | 15:53 |
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| toan-tran | thus a host will accept the VMs within its ratio | 15:54 |
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| toan-tran | however | 15:54 |
| toan-tran | it is sometimes prefereable that the we want to put it in the flavor | 15:54 |
| toan-tran | for instance: | 15:55 |
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| toan-tran | Flavor 1 has cpu_ratio 1 | 15:55 |
| toan-tran | Flavor 2 has cpu_ratio 2 | 15:55 |
| toan-tran | meaning that the first flavor will not accept sharing its core with others | 15:56 |
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| toan-tran | while flavor 2 can share up to 1 more VM in the same core | 15:56 |
| toan-tran | so if a host has 12 cores | 15:56 |
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| toan-tran | he can accept 12 VMs of flavor 1, or 24 VMs of flavor 2, or 6 from flavor 1 + 12 from flavor 2 | 15:57 |
| bauzas | ok, I see | 15:57 |
| toan-tran | that's what we want to realize | 15:57 |
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| bauzas | we're running out of time, I can propose you to discuss over this first in the bp | 15:57 |
| PaulMurray | toan-tran, have you looked at extensible RT | 15:57 |
| PaulMurray | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86050/ | 15:57 |
| bauzas | PaulMurray: +1 | 15:57 |
| toan-tran | PaulMurray: not yet, | 15:58 |
| PaulMurray | toan-tran, could be useful | 15:58 |
| toan-tran | yeah | 15:58 |
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| toan-tran | it sounds like what we want in conjunction | 15:58 |
| bauzas | ok, we're definitely eating time | 15:58 |
| bauzas | any other opens to place before Summit ? | 15:58 |
| toan-tran | actually there are several methods, including cgroup & quota:cpu | 15:58 |
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| bauzas | guys, we're running out of time | 15:59 |
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| toan-tran | well, I guess I can put back the bp for another time then :) | 16:00 |
| bauzas | I can propose to discuss over other topics outside here | 16:00 |
| bauzas | cool thanks | 16:00 |
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| bauzas | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 6 16:00:16 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-05-06-14.59.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-05-06-14.59.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-05-06-14.59.log.html | 16:00 |
| bauzas | bye all | 16:00 |
| YorikSar | bauzas: Cool presision with #endmeeting time ;) | 16:00 |
| primeministerp | Hi all | 16:00 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: you free? | 16:01 |
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| primeministerp | #startmeeting Hyper-V | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 6 16:01:55 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is primeministerp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Hyper-V)" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v' | 16:01 |
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| primeministerp | I'll wait a couple minutes | 16:02 |
| primeministerp | however I think most will be unable to attend. | 16:03 |
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| primeministerp | we'll look forward to meeting/seeing everyone at the summit next week. | 16:03 |
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| primeministerp | I'll wait a couple more minutes | 16:04 |
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| primeministerp | so looks like we'll call it until the summit. | 16:14 |
| primeministerp | #endmeeting | 16:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:14 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 6 16:14:45 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:14 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2014/hyper_v.2014-05-06-16.01.html | 16:14 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2014/hyper_v.2014-05-06-16.01.txt | 16:14 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2014/hyper_v.2014-05-06-16.01.log.html | 16:14 |
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| dolphm | ayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, fmarco76, nkinder, ericn: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 17:57 |
| bknudson | dolphm: hi | 17:57 |
| lbragstad | dolphm: hey | 17:57 |
| mfisch | morning | 17:57 |
| dstanek | o/ | 17:57 |
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| morganfainberg | o/ | 17:57 |
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| morganfainberg | o\ | 17:57 |
| ayoung | /0-0\\ | 17:58 |
| ayoung | heh //0-0\\ | 17:58 |
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| morganfainberg | (>'_')> | 17:58 |
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| topol | o/ I just want to say I won $550 playing poker in Vegas and thus can satisfy my obligation for buying drinks for first night (Monday correct) | 17:58 |
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| morganfainberg | topol, oh so we're getting expensive drinks then? :P | 17:59 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: ++ | 17:59 |
| topol | for you sure | 17:59 |
| lbragstad | shirley temples around! | 17:59 |
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| dolphm | topol: 550 should cover 2 or 3 of us i suppose | 17:59 |
| mfisch | there's so many parties and happy hours I'm not sure how you plan on actually buying a drink | 17:59 |
| stevemar | o/ | 17:59 |
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| topol | oh lord. I forgot who I am talking too | 17:59 |
| dolphm | #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 6 18:00:07 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
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| henrynash | hey | 18:00 |
| dolphm | #topic Reminder: there are two summit schedules | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reminder: there are two summit schedules (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| stevemar | topol, nicely done! | 18:00 |
| dolphm | as in HK, there are two sched.org schedules: one for the design summit and one for the main conference | 18:00 |
| dolphm | #link http://junodesignsummit.sched.org/ design summit | 18:00 |
| dolphm | #link http://openstacksummitmay2014atlanta.sched.org/ main conference | 18:00 |
| bknudson | there's some security presentations on monday | 18:01 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, Do we have any coders from sched.org attending? We need to get them to do the whole Hierarchical Multitenacy for Events | 18:01 |
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| dolphm | i recommend registering for sessions/events on each and then sync them both to your phone so you A) get updates B) can see conflicts | 18:01 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, lol | 18:01 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, when do you give the state of the Keystone Address? | 18:02 |
| dolphm | ayoung: we don't do that anymore -- it's a web conference post-summit now | 18:02 |
| stevemar | booo | 18:02 |
| ayoung | http://openstacksummitmay2014atlanta.sched.org/event/4656993707ba7b22d5f8df0aaa246603#.U2kjtTkjPiU | 18:02 |
| ayoung | Lets sit in there and Heckle, then | 18:02 |
| topol | I would like a transcript of the state of keystone address | 18:02 |
| dolphm | ayoung: unfortunately the icehouse one wasn't recorded (as i think i went first + technical difficulties) | 18:02 |
| mfisch | where is the invite for the webconf announced? | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | topol, we also need to have the immediate rebuttle to the state of keystone address >.> | 18:03 |
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| morganfainberg | topol, i mean... | 18:03 |
| bknudson | some of the summit meetings say FULL already | 18:03 |
| dolphm | mfisch: good question... i recall it being on twitter.com/openstack, but i'm sure there was something more formal (operator list?) | 18:03 |
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| topol | yeah, how can they be FULL? | 18:03 |
| mfisch | dolphm: ops list works for me | 18:03 |
| ayoung | I'm just going to go the that one and sit on the stage | 18:03 |
| marekd | o/ | 18:03 |
| dstanek | bknudson: ha, i didn't realize there was a capacity limit | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, wow full? | 18:04 |
| mfisch | a lot of the workshops have capacity limits | 18:04 |
| lbragstad | bknudson: which one were you looking at? | 18:04 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, if past summits were any indicator... rooms will be overfull for some talks | 18:04 |
| dolphm | for everyone here, the state of the union shouldn't be surprising, it'll be a summary of icehouse + what we talked about during the juno conference | 18:04 |
| stevemar | lbragstad, there's a bunch | 18:04 |
| dolphm | mfisch: ++ | 18:04 |
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| stevemar | some even say 'filling' | 18:05 |
| dstanek | if they are marked as full can you not add them to you schedule? | 18:05 |
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| bknudson | sign up and scalp tickets | 18:05 |
| mfisch | I panic signed up for some last week, but I'm overbooked | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, ++ | 18:05 |
| stevemar | bknudson, ++ | 18:05 |
| mfisch | will sell tickets for +2s | 18:05 |
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| morganfainberg | mfisch, oh thats downright dirty (i approve) | 18:05 |
| dolphm | design summit sessions shouldn't have any capacity, beyond actually filing the room | 18:05 |
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| dolphm | so, first come, first heard | 18:05 |
| stevemar | mfisch, you'd have better luck with beer | 18:05 |
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| dolphm | filling* | 18:05 |
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| topol | yeah, mfisch after you one gives you the +2 another one behind the scenes gives you a -2 | 18:06 |
| bknudson | "Take a Break with Red Hat" - FILLING | 18:06 |
| bknudson | I could handle that one | 18:06 |
| dolphm | rofl | 18:06 |
| mfisch | thats where redhat gives you snacks in exchange for a resume I bet | 18:06 |
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| ayoung | Its ok, this whole OpenStack thing is a flash in the pan. All the cool kids are moving to CoreOS | 18:06 |
| dolphm | sounds like a commercial break ;) | 18:07 |
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| ayoung | mfisch, Heh. Maybe for you | 18:07 |
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| ayoung | Red Hat doesn't feed me. Least, not that way | 18:07 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: they already have your resume | 18:07 |
| dolphm | #topic Design summit scheduling conflicts? | 18:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Design summit scheduling conflicts? (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:08 | |
| dolphm | just a reminder to poke me with any potential conflicts you find, today is basically the last day to resolve tehm | 18:08 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, I have yet to get someone hired here in Engineering. Ops and Services, yes....the easy way of getting into RH Engineering is to build a Successful OpenSource Project and We'll Acquire your company. | 18:09 |
| dolphm | the only one i'm aware of, and will attempt to resolve, is that the federation design session conflicts with a federation-related topic from the main conference: http://junodesignsummit.sched.org/event/ab0966f5ec41f78e929effd499e0286f conflicts with http://openstacksummitmay2014atlanta.sched.org/event/11b6f75c349b0bffe204e3cb2880d4c0 | 18:09 |
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| dolphm | that'll likely result in the federation design session moving to a later timeslot, although there aren't many options to do so | 18:10 |
| stevemar | ah that mystery one | 18:10 |
| morganfainberg | ah that would be good to resolve if possible | 18:10 |
| marekd | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:10 |
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| dolphm | i'd rather not swap it with another keystone session (so that we can attend the main conference session) | 18:10 |
| dolphm | but that's my backup plan | 18:11 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++ | 18:11 |
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| dolphm | anyway, if anyone finds anything else, speak up- thanks! | 18:11 |
| dolphm | #topic Design summit etherpads | 18:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Design summit etherpads (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:11 | |
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| dolphm | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Juno/Etherpads#Keystone | 18:11 |
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| dolphm | I started preseeding the etherpads a bit, and linking them on sched.org | 18:12 |
| dolphm | the only thing i'd *really* like to have before we get to atlanta, is one or two specific desired outcomes for each session so that we can stay on track while we're there :) | 18:13 |
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| stevemar | ++ | 18:13 |
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| dolphm | a couple sessions are completely missing them, as the session descriptions were ... vague ... so i'd appreciate everyone's input here on what we'd like to accomplish in those topics | 18:13 |
| stevemar | a rough outline, and desired outcomes are great things to put in the etherpads | 18:13 |
| dolphm | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-keystone-client | 18:13 |
| dolphm | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-keystone-authorization | 18:13 |
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| bknudson | keystoneclient and authorization are pretty broad topics to begin with | 18:14 |
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| stevemar | which is why the folks who propsed the session should help narrow it down :P | 18:14 |
| jamielennox | we have a seperate authorization track to just normal client? | 18:14 |
| dolphm | bknudson: stevemar: ++ | 18:15 |
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| dolphm | jamielennox: authorization steps into token authz attributes, policy.json and oslo.policy land | 18:15 |
| jamielennox | oh right, server side | 18:16 |
| jamielennox | client is vague because while i've got a few things i'm hoping others to have topics as well | 18:17 |
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| dolphm | jamielennox: the "topics" you mentioned in the session description don't have clear justification or desired outcomes, though | 18:18 |
| bknudson | I guess with the client I'm a little more interested in if the other projects are going to use it | 18:18 |
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| bknudson | rather than re-implementing everything | 18:18 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: "Splitting middleware out from the client repo" - what's the challenge we need to overcome at the summit? | 18:18 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: "Ideas for fixing auth_token middleware" what's wrong with it, exactly, that we need to solve? | 18:18 |
| dolphm | etc | 18:18 |
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| dolphm | i'd like to have a desired outcome(s) for these, *and* revise the session description to be much more specific for both of these | 18:19 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: yep, i definetly think we need to revise the description | 18:19 |
| topol | dolphm, do we anywhere cover having a strategy to getting one of the integrated projects to adopt V3 APIs | 18:19 |
| bknudson | heat is using v3 apis | 18:20 |
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| bknudson | e.g., trusts | 18:20 |
| dolphm | topol: i have a bp filed specifically to document our approach to that -- i intend on focusing on it this week actually :) | 18:20 |
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| topol | bknudson, I was thinking more nova, cinder, glance | 18:20 |
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| topol | dolphm, sounds good | 18:20 |
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| dolphm | topol: the bottom line is that the work is on us to make it happen, but we need a roadmap defined for ourselves, and for our stakeholders to monitor | 18:21 |
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| bknudson | nova's got an issue where they accept a token and then start using it with neutron... but the token might have expired between when they accepted it and when they hand it off to neutron | 18:21 |
| topol | dolphm, +++++ | 18:21 |
| jamielennox | topol: i consider that part of client's responsibility, whilst ever people have to do there own integration with different API versions it won't happen | 18:22 |
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| topol | we need to save cycles for making that happen | 18:22 |
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| bknudson | we should also have a target -- j2? | 18:22 |
| topol | jamielennox, so its on us to make happen. Otherwise V3 APIs arent relevant. and not being relevant is a bad place to be | 18:23 |
| jamielennox | having said that a large amount of what is actually required in terms of features are either implemented or in review, so there is work to be done but i don't know what is left in terms of discussion | 18:23 |
| jamielennox | topol: absolutely - we are going to need to make the changes | 18:23 |
| dolphm | bknudson: my personal goal is for the end of juno, but i like the ambition :) | 18:23 |
| henrynash | yes | 18:23 |
| dolphm | we could also replace one of these sessions with a v3 roadmap session | 18:24 |
| topol | dolphm, ideally we could pair up a core from keystone with a core from the other projects to have a two in the box approach to insuring folks upgrade to V3 | 18:24 |
| dolphm | topol: i like that idea | 18:24 |
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| dstanek | topol: pairing is a good idea | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | topol, ++ | 18:26 |
| dolphm | s/Authorization/What it will take to kill Identity API v2/ ? | 18:26 |
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| morganfainberg | v2 auth isn't hard, it's the rest of v2... that's a pain | 18:27 |
| henrynash | dolphm: maybe s/User IDs/Entity IDs/ ….since we are taling about user and group IDs | 18:28 |
| ayoung | dolphm, first and foremost it will take: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/90632/ | 18:28 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: again, generally a client issue so happy to take it, I just need to rewrite that description | 18:28 |
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| ayoung | we need to make it possible for people to use V3 APIs while stuck with V2.0 clients | 18:29 |
| ayoung | other clients, that is | 18:29 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: make that a desired outcome of the client session, you mean? | 18:29 |
| henrynash | dolphm: or maybe just User/Group IDs | 18:29 |
| dolphm | henrynash: "entity" is a bit vague, but happy to expand to user & group | 18:30 |
| dolphm | henrynash: i wasn't thinking group id's because i had identity federation in mind | 18:30 |
| henrynash | dolphm: ++ | 18:30 |
| ayoung | In federation, we need to let the groups be defined completely in the mapping layer, with nothing in identity | 18:30 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: again, my issue here is that i would love the feedback but as far as i'm concerned most of the pieces for the transition are in place or in review | 18:31 |
| stevemar | ayoung, you mean no existing groups in identity backend? | 18:31 |
| marekd | ayoung: something like 'ephemeral' groups? | 18:31 |
| ayoung | stevemar, yes, that is what I mean | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i agree | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | marekd, ++ | 18:31 |
| stevemar | ayoung, you want the groups created on the fly? | 18:31 |
| ayoung | marekd yeah, let the IdP manage the set of groups | 18:31 |
| marekd | stevemar: yes | 18:31 |
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| morganfainberg | stevemar, group shouldn't need to be "Stored" in identity imo | 18:31 |
| ayoung | stevemar, I don't want to have to define them in two places. So if I have them in the IdP, I want to be able to use them from the IdP | 18:32 |
| marekd | stevemar: ayoung: or rather fake groups that are just a bridge to the roles... | 18:32 |
| ayoung | NO! | 18:32 |
| ayoung | Nothing Fake | 18:32 |
| ayoung | They are real, they just don't live in Keystone | 18:32 |
| stevemar | morganfainberg, ayoung, i'm not understanding how authz could happen then? | 18:32 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: we have a substantial amount of cross-project work to follow - i'd like to enumerate that too. plus, what we expect from deployers to make a transition | 18:32 |
| ayoung | stevemar, role is still assigned based on Group Id | 18:32 |
| stevemar | a role has to have a user|group and project|domain | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | stevemar, the same way as now, you just wouldn't have a group in identity backend. | 18:32 |
| ayoung | you just don;'t confuirm that the group is in the identity backend a-priori | 18:32 |
| ayoung | that is why there is no FK constrain there. | 18:33 |
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| jamielennox | dolphm: ok, i couldn't see any way to edit that summary, do i just have to send it to you? | 18:33 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: oh sure - i have no idea what the options look like on your side at this point :( | 18:33 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: i think it's all the same to me up until the conference, except after today it's | 18:34 |
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| dolphm | "pencils down" | 18:34 |
| stevemar | morganfainberg, ayoung i suppose | 18:34 |
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| morganfainberg | stevemar, it's the same as a federated user, the ID doesn't get "stored" in the identity backend. | 18:34 |
| henrynash | ayoung: we will still need to support groups in identity right…e.g. I’m ust using LDAP….just not for federation…unless, as we have discussed before, we make LDAP a subset of federation | 18:34 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: alright, i'll fix something up soon and email/put it on etherpad and link it to you | 18:34 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: danke | 18:34 |
| ayoung | henrynash, done by the web server | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, correct, though i'd like to see LDAP as a subset of federation | 18:34 |
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| ayoung | mod_lookup_identity | 18:34 |
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| ayoung | http://adam.younglogic.com/?p=3175&preview=true | 18:35 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, right there are other ways, but if we maintain a raw ldap connection, we woiuld still need groups in identity. | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, similar to SQL backend. | 18:35 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, I said explicitly for Federation | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, yeah. | 18:36 |
| ayoung | LDAP Id Backend doesn't go away. | 18:36 |
| henrynash | ayoung: assuming everyone is happy to use apache plugins for this…(no, don’t start that argument now)…’cause I think that’s too strict an implementation requiremnet | 18:36 |
| ayoung | http://adam.younglogic.com/2014/05/keystone-federation-via-mod_lookup_identity/ | 18:36 |
| dolphm | henrynash: (what's too strict, exactly?) | 18:36 |
| ayoung | henrynash, "make it possible to" not require | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, ++ | 18:36 |
| bknudson | I don't think deployers really want an LDAP ID backend if they have federation | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, more options = better. this is an alternative deployment. | 18:36 |
| bknudson | they want to store their service users in sql | 18:36 |
| ayoung | henrynash, I don't want to have to explicitly enumerate all of the groups if the Apache module populates them for me | 18:36 |
| ayoung | bknudson, ++ | 18:37 |
| marekd | ayoung: ++ | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, somewhat, some of my users do want LDAP direct, but that is more of an edgecase than the norm | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, i agree most cases federation supplants the need for LDAP | 18:37 |
| henrynash | dolphm: that we make apache plugins the only way we can get certain key keystone fucntionality (e.g. groups for LDAP) | 18:37 |
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| ayoung | http://adam.younglogic.com/2014/05/mod_lookup_identity/ can use the ldap pam Module | 18:37 |
| dolphm | bknudson: i agree in the long run, and would appreciate being corrected if anyone has an opposing use case :) | 18:38 |
| bknudson | they don't have to be apache plugins, could also handle via keystone middleware | 18:38 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: (why?) | 18:38 |
| topol | bknudson++ | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, ++ | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, because they are picky about how things interact with LDAP | 18:38 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, it's a silly edge case requirement | 18:38 |
| ayoung | bknudson, for an example of that: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/92137/ | 18:38 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: so they don't want users authenticating with ldap or what? | 18:38 |
| bknudson | if somebody was picky about interaction with LDAP they'd be surprised by how keystone works. | 18:38 |
| dolphm | bknudson: plus plus | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, i'll need to get more info on it and we're using some very odd hybrid backends | 18:39 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, we could take LDAP an make it into a middleware piece like the Basic_Auth one I just posted, and populate REMOTE_GROUPS from there. | 18:39 |
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| stevemar | henrynash, i get your concern, i had planned to talk about the dependency at the summit | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, middleware would be good if we wanted to support non-apache wsgi implementations | 18:40 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, ++ | 18:40 |
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| topol | stevemar, how hard is it to get rid of that dependency? | 18:40 |
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| ayoung | I think that is the way to go, and then we can add or remove them from the pipeline, but Identity is an optional component. We need a way to deal with domains in the Basic_Auth case (that really is just an example one) | 18:41 |
| stevemar | topol, not sure, we agreed on the dependency to get something up and running quickly | 18:41 |
| topol | stevemar, makes sense | 18:41 |
| stevemar | topol, it'll be different for the different federation protocols too | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, exactly | 18:41 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: the thing is I see many customer who just want coroprate LDAP user/groups mapping…and then use keystone to add roles to those users and groups… I don;t see how we get that with a pipeline plug in | 18:42 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, that is exactly what you get | 18:42 |
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| morganfainberg | henrynash, if it provided the remote_user/group mechanism the apache module would have otherwise done, you get the same net effect, right? | 18:43 |
| bknudson | we'd have REMOTE_USER and REMOTE_GROUPS? | 18:43 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, instead of doing a lookup against the backend, it used LDAP to populate REMOTE_USER and REMOTE_GROUPS. Then The Mapping backend (as per SAML plugin) will convert those to the USER_ID and Groups for Keystone consumption | 18:44 |
| ayoung | bknudson, yes | 18:44 |
| bknudson | and roles map group names to roles instead of IDs? | 18:44 |
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| ayoung | groups only have ids | 18:44 |
| henrynash | how do I have an keystone API that says “pick the group that I add a role to for a project”? | 18:44 |
| ayoung | henrynash, you don't | 18:44 |
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| henrynash | i knew you would say that | 18:44 |
| henrynash | :-) | 18:44 |
| ayoung | henrynash, you can query them from LDAP | 18:44 |
| marekd | ayoung: and how would you like to link groups from REMOTE_GROUPS with a set of roles? | 18:44 |
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| marekd | in the mapping rules? | 18:45 |
| ayoung | mapping just converst REMOPTEE_GROUPS to Keystone groups. The rest of the mechanism is the same, except you do not "confirm the group exists" | 18:45 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: ok, agreed….in that model we say there is no idenitty api as we know it today, you go to the “source” | 18:45 |
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| marekd | ah, so some local groups would have to exist apriori... | 18:45 |
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| bknudson | we'll have to change the project name from openstack identity to openstack assignment. | 18:46 |
| ayoung | bknudson, ++ | 18:46 |
| dolphm | ayoung: how do you assign project/domain-based authorization to groups that don't exist? | 18:46 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, there are a couple ways we could address that. Probably the most logical is that an assignement to a group requires that the user doing it has the group in their Assertion (SAML, LDAP whatever) | 18:47 |
| ayoung | dolphm, is that really such a problem, though, if the groups are not enumeratable in Keystone? | 18:48 |
| ayoung | the mappings are going to be set up by external users. They know about their attributes | 18:48 |
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| ayoung | If they say "pass through the list of groups that the user has" so long as it is limited to a domain, let it pass. | 18:49 |
| dolphm | ayoung: i don't care if their enumerable or not - if the user comes into keystone with groups that keystone has never seen before, they won't be authorized to do anything in the cloud, right? | 18:49 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i think there might be some usability issues in that. | 18:49 |
| ayoung | dolphm, correct. | 18:49 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: but you want the user to have authorization to grant themselves authorization? | 18:49 |
| ayoung | dolphm, you would need to set up a role assignment before the group means anything | 18:49 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, no, I was saying "if you need enumeration" | 18:50 |
| ayoung | that was just one possible solution,. not the berst | 18:50 |
| dolphm | ayoung: so the deployer needs to know about the groups they care about before the user authenticates? | 18:50 |
| ayoung | best | 18:50 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg, ayoung: maybe not usability, but i'm trying to imagine the headache of getting keystone setup with all these mappings | 18:50 |
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| ayoung | Not "must" just "may" | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, ooh we probably need to work w/ horizon folks to make a "friendly" way of defining mapping.s | 18:51 |
| dolphm | ayoung: so you want to basically ignore "groups" that don't exist? | 18:51 |
| bknudson | jamielennox: would be interesting to see an example mapping setup | 18:51 |
| ayoung | If I have an LDAP server with 1000s of groups already defined, I don't want to have to copy each and everyone in to the Keystone Backend (assuming it will not be using direct LDAP, But Rather Federation) | 18:51 |
| ayoung | dolphm, yes I want the option to ignore groups with no role assignments | 18:52 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, and of testing them.... | 18:52 |
| dolphm | ayoung: that seems like a trivial change relative to how federation is implemented today; why fuss with a radically different implementation to achieve that? | 18:52 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, I'm not suggesting a radical change. Just that it is something we need to resolve and support. | 18:53 |
| marekd | dolphm: ++ | 18:53 |
| ayoung | An option on the domain: don't enumerate groups. | 18:53 |
| dolphm | if CONF.federation.ignore_unrecognized_groups: discard_group(); else: raise Exception() | 18:53 |
| ayoung | Or "don't confuirm group existinence when creating a role mapping" | 18:53 |
| ayoung | dolphm, could be CONF, but probably makes more sense as an option on the domain | 18:53 |
| ayoung | Or on the mapping | 18:54 |
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| dolphm | (3 minutes) | 18:54 |
| ayoung | I could see a need for the current functionality for say, public cloud, and then Non-enumeration for a public cloud setup. | 18:54 |
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| ayoung | er, privateCLoud setup | 18:54 |
| bknudson | before we're done I wanted to mention that it's pretty easy to try out the compressed token change -- | 18:54 |
| dolphm | ayoung: i'm lost on whether you're talking about ignoring groups during role assignment or after processing a federation mapping | 18:55 |
| ayoung | bknudson, ++ | 18:55 |
| bknudson | just checkout the 2 commits and devstack | 18:55 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, both. | 18:55 |
| ayoung | bknudson, and it worked OK? | 18:55 |
| bknudson | ayoung: yes, it worked fine | 18:55 |
| bknudson | and the tokens were obviously starting with PKIZ | 18:55 |
| ayoung | One commit for Keystone, one commit for client, and devstack. | 18:55 |
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| ayoung | https://review.openstack.org/71181 https://review.openstack.org/91145 | 18:56 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, BTW, that mechanism is what I am proposing as the basis for PKI usage in Oslo Messaging | 18:56 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: there's a patch for devstack? | 18:56 |
| ayoung | dolphm, No. | 18:56 |
| bknudson | it works with plain devstack | 18:56 |
| dolphm | good | 18:57 |
| dolphm | time-ish! | 18:57 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, I think he meant it worked with Devstack if you tell it "don't reclone" | 18:57 |
| dolphm | ayoung: gotcha | 18:57 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i think devstack doesn't reclone by default | 18:57 |
| dolphm | #endmeeting | 18:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:57 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 6 18:57:45 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:57 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-05-06-18.00.html | 18:57 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-05-06-18.00.txt | 18:57 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-05-06-18.00.log.html | 18:57 |
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| henrynash | someone’s clock is fast! | 18:58 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, he said "ish" | 18:58 |
| henrynash | true, true.... | 18:58 |
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| fungi | infra team assemble! | 19:00 |
| mordred | fungi: I'm here - but need to step afk for like 5 minutes | 19:00 |
| clarkb | ohai | 19:00 |
| jesusaurus | o/ | 19:00 |
| fungi | SergeyLukjanov? pleia2? zaro? | 19:00 |
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| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 6 19:01:12 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:01 |
| fungi | this should be fairly short, i think | 19:01 |
| mattoliverau | o/ | 19:01 |
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| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:02 |
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| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
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| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-04-29-18.59.html | 19:02 |
| fungi | (none) | 19:02 |
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| fungi | #topic manage-projects status (mordred) | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "manage-projects status (mordred) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| fungi | it seems to be working, yes? | 19:03 |
| fungi | i've personally merged a couple of things which it grabbed and ran with successfully | 19:03 |
| mattoliverau | is mordred back from his 5 min task? | 19:03 |
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| * SergeyLukjanov here | 19:03 | |
| clarkb | yup the i8ln project was created | 19:03 |
| clarkb | seemed happy | 19:04 |
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| fungi | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/oslo.i18n/ | 19:04 |
| fungi | that one? | 19:04 |
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| clarkb | yup | 19:05 |
| clarkb | I do know there are issues creating projects without a seed repo | 19:05 |
| fungi | ahh, yeah 78 minutes ago and has all its history, so lgtm | 19:05 |
| clarkb | mordred has a change up to fix that but it is not tested | 19:05 |
| fungi | good to keep in mind | 19:06 |
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| fungi | "it works" is probably sufficient status, but we can revisit when mordred returns if there's anything more we need to dig into here | 19:07 |
| clarkb | or was it projects that needed a seed ACL | 19:07 |
| clarkb | fungi: ++ | 19:07 |
| fungi | as much as i'm sure we'll all miss the drama of "new project fridays" | 19:07 |
| fungi | #topic Summit next week (clarkb) | 19:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit next week (clarkb) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:07 | |
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| fungi | jeblair has asked that we work out any reshuffling which needs to happen to resolve schedule conflicts asap so he can go over them in the upcoming project meeting | 19:08 |
| mordred | blast. it was 8 minutes | 19:08 |
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| clarkb | friendly reminder that the summit happens next week. we don't do meetings during that week and anyone that has a session under the infra track should add a link to an etherpad for that session at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Juno/Etherpads#Infrastructure | 19:08 |
| mordred | clarkb: ++ | 19:08 |
| krotscheck | Here | 19:08 |
| fungi | did anyone have any requests to reschedule or rehome a session? | 19:09 |
| clarkb | fungi: I basically gave up when I had like 5 triple bookings | 19:09 |
| fungi | i suspect we'll just do like we always have and work out on the spot who's going to split to attend what | 19:09 |
| * clarkb looks at them really quickly | 19:09 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | it looks ok for me | 19:09 |
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| mordred | my schedule looked stupid as usual | 19:10 |
| mordred | so I didn't think of thinking of suggesting moves | 19:11 |
| clarkb | ya basically it is never going to be perfect | 19:11 |
| clarkb | so I was ok with dealing with it | 19:11 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:11 |
| fungi | works for me too | 19:11 |
| clarkb | though this might be a good time to suggest paper shcedules again | 19:11 |
| clarkb | because sched.org hated us in hong kong | 19:12 |
| anteaya | o/ | 19:12 |
| mordred | clarkb: on-demand paper schedules that print out based on my username would be fantastic | 19:12 |
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| mordred | or monitors that respond to the nfc chip in my phone to show me my personal schedule | 19:13 |
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| * mordred shuts up | 19:13 | |
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| * gothicmindfood thinks RFID chips for all to geo-locate each other on an openstack-infra app sounds good | 19:14 | |
| anteaya | i like paper schedules | 19:14 |
| fungi | okay, as i see no objections raised to the current infra and infra-related sessions scheduled, and have none myself, i think this makes things easier for jeblair ;) | 19:15 |
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| fungi | anybody else have summit/conference-related things to cover? | 19:15 |
| clarkb | monday is freeish | 19:15 |
| mordred | we should all drink some time | 19:15 |
| fungi | "ish" | 19:15 |
| anteaya | I was going to spend some time in the ops track on monday | 19:16 |
| clarkb | according to gertty zuul has 25 outstanding changes | 19:16 |
| anteaya | the thing tom is organizing | 19:16 |
| clarkb | I think it would be excellent to do some zuul hacking at some point | 19:16 |
| clarkb | anteaya: yup me too | 19:16 |
| anteaya | yes a group zuul hack | 19:16 |
| fungi | yes, having people attend relevant ops sessions would be good | 19:16 |
| anteaya | I would like that | 19:16 |
| clarkb | but we can do the zuul thing informally | 19:16 |
| clarkb | when there is time (if there is time) | 19:16 |
| clarkb | maybe over dinner and beer one evening | 19:16 |
| anteaya | sounds good | 19:17 |
| clarkb | (lol like jeblair will be free for dinner) | 19:17 |
| * mordred is considering not bringing his laptop just like hong kong | 19:17 | |
| anteaya | you only use your phone anyway at these things | 19:17 |
| zaro | yes, would like to be on better terms with zuul as well | 19:17 |
| clarkb | if that falls through maybe we should consider a mid cycle zuul specific meetup | 19:17 |
| anteaya | hey a mid cycle might be nice | 19:18 |
| clarkb | since a generic infra one was deemed less useful last cycle | 19:18 |
| clarkb | (I am just throwing ideas out there, not particularly sold on any one in particular) | 19:18 |
| mordred | clarkb: by mid-cycle - you clearly mean "everyone goes to the beach at fungi's house" | 19:18 |
| fungi | works for me | 19:18 |
| clarkb | mordred: or hawaii | 19:18 |
| clarkb | mordred: hawaii was really nice | 19:18 |
| fungi | just be prepared for it to be really crowded there that time of year | 19:19 |
| fungi | oh, i would totally go in for hawaii ;) | 19:19 |
| anteaya | I'm up for the beach | 19:19 |
| mattoliverau | jhesketh is talking about turbo-hipster, on i think monday, tho cant remember at this time of morning. He might go into my nodepool-ify of TH as well. didnt see that on any list. | 19:19 |
| krotscheck | I want to grab a bunch of you and show you mockups and ask you questions. | 19:19 |
| zaro | fungi ++ | 19:19 |
| anteaya | so yeah, fungi's house in july | 19:19 |
| clarkb | fungi: also hawaii is easy for the australians apparently | 19:20 |
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| clarkb | so its win win :) | 19:20 |
| anteaya | and I'll put zuul in the reason for on the expense report | 19:20 |
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| anteaya | who is there to organize something in hawaii | 19:20 |
| anteaya | we can't just show up | 19:20 |
| fungi | mattoliverau: do you recall whether it was a conference session or an ops summit session? | 19:20 |
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| mattoliverau | yeah its a little closer :) | 19:20 |
| clarkb | the future of jenkins session is tuesday iirc | 19:21 |
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| mattoliverau | giid question, my mind doesn't work to well at 5am :P I'll find it | 19:21 |
| clarkb | nope wednesday | 19:21 |
| mattoliverau | *good | 19:21 |
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| mordred | the future of jenkins is unicorns | 19:21 |
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| fungi | oh, the design summit session on future of jenkins. got it | 19:21 |
| clarkb | I think that is jheskeths session | 19:22 |
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| fungi | i definitely planned on hitting that one | 19:22 |
| clarkb | any other summit things? | 19:23 |
| fungi | seems like no | 19:23 |
| clarkb | you know I should've proposed a future of tox session | 19:23 |
| clarkb | oh well | 19:23 |
| mordred | clarkb: we can always talk about that over beer | 19:23 |
| anteaya | that will be over beer Ithink | 19:23 |
| anteaya | ha | 19:23 |
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| fungi | #action clarkb fix tox over beer | 19:24 |
| jesusaurus | ++ | 19:24 |
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| fungi | #topic Open discussion | 19:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:24 | |
| fungi | (which this more or less has been anyway) | 19:24 |
| ianw | hi, just wanted to check on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/91728/ | 19:24 |
| jesusaurus | i would like to talk about my refactoring of the jenkins module | 19:24 |
| jesusaurus | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/89708/ | 19:24 |
| fungi | mordred: you didn't have any additional input on manage-projects besides what we covered already, right? | 19:24 |
| krotscheck | So, who’s actually been using storyboard, and what kind of feedback do you have? | 19:25 |
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| mattoliverau | Monday at 2pm: http://is.gd/M6V2yW | 19:25 |
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| mattoliverau | jhesketh ^^ | 19:25 |
| clarkb | jesusaurus: oh ya, that is on my list of things to review this week hopefully. But what little I saw of it is good | 19:25 |
| clarkb | jesusaurus: I think the new terminology is much more clear | 19:25 |
| clarkb | mattoliverau: oh at the conference proper | 19:25 |
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| jesusaurus | ive chatted with people in -infra on a couple occassions about it, but i still don't have any reviews | 19:26 |
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| mordred | fungi: nope. it should be working | 19:26 |
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| mordred | krotscheck: I have been using it lightly - but thusfar don't have specific feedback - I haven't used it in anger yet | 19:27 |
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| mordred | krotscheck: I blame my life as a PHB | 19:27 |
| clarkb | jesusaurus: your change has been starred, bug me about it if I don't get around to it tomorrow | 19:27 |
| zaro | krotscheck: what projects are in storyboard so far? | 19:27 |
| jesusaurus | mordred: phb? | 19:27 |
| krotscheck | zaro: Storyboard, storyboard webclient, zuul, gertty, nodepool | 19:27 |
| fungi | jesusaurus: dilbert reference. pointy-haired boss | 19:27 |
| mordred | jesusaurus: "pointy haired boss" | 19:27 |
| clarkb | jesusaurus: players handbook or pointy haired boss depending on the type of nerd you are | 19:28 |
| jesusaurus | ahhh | 19:28 |
| jesusaurus | clarkb++ thats where my mind was | 19:28 |
| mordred | clarkb: I probably would not have been saying "I blame my life as a player's handbook" | 19:28 |
| zaro | jesusaurus: that's a wopper! | 19:28 |
| zaro | krotscheck: are you open to adding others? | 19:28 |
| * mordred should have been saying that | 19:28 | |
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| krotscheck | zaro: Absolutely, especially since you sit close enough to throw things at me when it’s annoying. | 19:29 |
| zaro | jesusaurus: like the idea. will take a look | 19:29 |
| anteaya | your hair is not pointy enough yet, I hope you are working on that | 19:29 |
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| clarkb | anything else? | 19:31 |
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| jesusaurus | id also like to talk a bit about the larger picture of where i want to go with refactoring jenkins | 19:31 |
| clarkb | jesusaurus: go for it | 19:32 |
| fungi | ianw: commented on 91728, i more or less agree with derekh_ but otherwise the change lgtm | 19:32 |
| jesusaurus | i would like to see some of the modules broken out into their own repos to make them more easily used by others | 19:32 |
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| clarkb | ++, but first step in that is figuring out r10k and/or publishing to puppet forge automagically | 19:33 |
| clarkb | which I hthink has been the biggest holdup for us. We can consume the monolithic lib easily | 19:33 |
| clarkb | hard to consume when broken into pieces | 19:33 |
| fungi | jesusaurus: yeah, i started reviewing 89708 but it's hugeish. i really wish we had a way to test it not-in-production | 19:33 |
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| jesusaurus | yes, as well as figuring out automagic upgrading on the puppetmaster | 19:33 |
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| jesusaurus | which implies functional testing of multiple puppet modules together | 19:34 |
| zaro | should we bother with suppoting the new 'draft-published' event zuul? | 19:34 |
| fungi | jesusaurus: i definitely agree with the overall concept however, and the terminology changes are great | 19:34 |
| zaro | i mean 'in zuul' | 19:34 |
| mordred | clarkb, fungi, jesusaurus: we have a "install modules" script already - why don't we just have it iterate over a set of git repos | 19:34 |
| clarkb | zaro: I don't think so | 19:34 |
| clarkb | zaro: I really want drafts to just die | 19:34 |
| mordred | I mean, it's great that puppet modules exist and all | 19:34 |
| mordred | and it's great that there are complex ruby ways to do that | 19:34 |
| clarkb | mordred: we really wnt r10k for that | 19:34 |
| ianw | fungi: ok, so i should just move it to devstack-gate.yaml? or there's "misc" | 19:34 |
| mordred | but we ALREADY have a compelx shell script | 19:34 |
| clarkb | mordred: because the shell script sucks enough | 19:34 |
| fungi | ianw: misc is more builder and publisher macros. devstack-gate.yaml is probably the best home for it | 19:35 |
| mordred | but r10k is super excessive and fancy and probably won't work for puppet apply | 19:35 |
| zaro | clarkb: there's an oustanding bug that wants zuul to build on draft publish event. | 19:35 |
| mordred | where as a simple script that's just a for loop of git clones is probably all we need | 19:35 |
| mordred | no? | 19:35 |
| jesusaurus | mordred: the shell script is currently meant to pin all of the modules, and theres no way to say 'we trust master for some modules' | 19:35 |
| clarkb | mordred: I think it will work for puppet apply, you just have ot install it first and run it | 19:35 |
| mordred | jesusaurus: havea ref for each thing | 19:35 |
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| clarkb | mordred: just like we do with the shell script | 19:35 |
| mordred | so - each thing either lists master or the name of some tag | 19:36 |
| jesusaurus | that would work | 19:36 |
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| mordred | I mean, I get what you're saying with r10k - but this has been a todo list item for like 1.5 years, so maybe we're making it too hard | 19:36 |
| mordred | we've already got an associative bash array | 19:36 |
| mordred | which lists versions and module names | 19:36 |
| fungi | zaro: clarkb: i think having zuul support running jobs when it gets a draft-published event is already supportable in configuration, right (so other deployers of gerrit/zuul can make use of that)? however i agree that if we can disable drafts for review.openstack.org we should | 19:36 |
| clarkb | fungi: yes I think hashar added it when gerrit added the event | 19:37 |
| sdague | fungi: so how big of a stretch would it be to make the puppet code live testable? | 19:37 |
| clarkb | fungi: so a layout.yaml update is all that is necessary | 19:37 |
| zaro | fungi: option to disable isn't available until 29 | 19:37 |
| zaro | 2.9 | 19:37 |
| sdague | like having it spin up dev-infra-stack? and see that it works | 19:37 |
| zaro | fungi: i do not believe zuul even knows about drafts events | 19:37 |
| clarkb | zaro: I am pretty sure it does. hashar added it iirc | 19:38 |
| mordred | sdague: at the moment, I think we're still not automatic enough in several of our components | 19:38 |
| zaro | actually i know that for sure. i have already gone down path to add it. | 19:38 |
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| mordred | sdague: I think it's an AWESOME idea though | 19:38 |
| mordred | and would love for it to be a thing | 19:38 |
| clarkb | zaro: yup it does | 19:38 |
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| clarkb | zaro: git grep draft | 19:38 |
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| zaro | clarkb: did that merge? | 19:38 |
| clarkb | zaro: yes forever ago | 19:38 |
| fungi | zaro: https://review.openstack.org/22690 | 19:39 |
| jesusaurus | mordred: what bits arent automatic enough? | 19:39 |
| mordred | installing jenkins. installing errit | 19:39 |
| fungi | zaro: merged more than a year ago | 19:39 |
| mordred | gerrit | 19:39 |
| jesusaurus | sdague: ive been playing with some lxc's that mimic infra and i run test.sh there | 19:39 |
| mordred | both have manual steps. several. | 19:39 |
| ttx | o/ | 19:39 |
| mordred | jesusaurus: if you can make it work, I'll buy you a unicorn | 19:39 |
| sdague | jesusaurus: how hard would that be to convert into d-g jobs? | 19:39 |
| fungi | ttx: got anything good for the infra meeting? | 19:40 |
| jesusaurus | sdague: im not sure, im not very familiar with d-g yet | 19:40 |
| ttx | fungi: nothing special | 19:40 |
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| mordred | jesusaurus: also - finishing the puppeting of jenkins master would be welcome | 19:40 |
| jesusaurus | mordred: noted | 19:40 |
| mordred | jesusaurus: since you were already working on jenkins puppet | 19:40 |
| mordred | biggest challenge there is taht the main config.xml gets polluted with slave config | 19:40 |
| mordred | which means that $fancy will have to happen | 19:40 |
| sdague | jesusaurus: we should sit down at summit at some point then and look. Because if we could auto test more of this, it would be huge. | 19:41 |
| mordred | sdague: ++ | 19:41 |
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| jesusaurus | sdague: sure thing | 19:41 |
| zaro | fungi, clarkb : i don't think that change is enough. need to add the draft event to layout as well so zuul can recognize it. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/92268/1 | 19:42 |
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| clarkb | zaro: yes you need to update the layout.yaml | 19:42 |
| clarkb | zaro: but zuul itself doesn't need any changes | 19:42 |
| clarkb | zaro: what fungi was saying is that openstack doesn't need to do anything with drafts, but others can if they wish | 19:42 |
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| fungi | clarkb: zaro: right. for openstack's zuul deployment, it may just make sense to wait for gerrit 2.9, disable drafts, and mark that bug invalid/wontfix at that point | 19:43 |
| zaro | clarkb: when draft is uploaded gerrit must send a patchset-created event as well? | 19:43 |
| clarkb | zaro: its does but only for people that can see the draft which doesn't include zuul | 19:43 |
| fungi | zaro: it doesn't, because then people watching the event stream would know there was a super secret draft | 19:44 |
| zaro | ok, i see where this is leading. gonna abandon my efforts. | 19:44 |
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| fungi | er, doesn't unless the account watching teh event stream is a reviewer on the draft | 19:44 |
| clarkb | ya that | 19:44 |
| zaro | i had a difficult time with zuul tests anyways. | 19:44 |
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| zaro | clarkb: i think you are mistaken, zuul would need changes to understand the draft-published event. | 19:45 |
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| clarkb | zaro: it already has that change | 19:46 |
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| clarkb | zaro: `git grep draft` in the zuul repo | 19:46 |
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| zaro | clarkb: i can tell because this doesn't work, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/92158/ | 19:46 |
| clarkb | zaro: it should work. I am pretty sure hashar is using it | 19:47 |
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| zaro | clarkb: tests don't seem to pass. | 19:47 |
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| marekd | 6/n | 19:48 |
| clarkb | zaro: voluptuus is complaining about something | 19:48 |
| zaro | clarkb: i thought it's because zuul doesn't undertand that new event. so that's why my attempt at updating zuul. | 19:48 |
| clarkb | zaro: but I think draft-published is sound | 19:48 |
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| zaro | clarkb: hmm. i'll ask hasher for input on it then. | 19:49 |
| fungi | yeah, i think it's just not in the validation mapping | 19:49 |
| fungi | probably needs a very minor testing fix to add that | 19:49 |
| zaro | good news then :) | 19:49 |
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| fungi | krotscheck: i've used storyboard very minimally, and want to say you've done some awesome work, but unfortunately i don't have any particular requests outside of the current roadmap | 19:52 |
| krotscheck | fungi: Thanks! | 19:52 |
| fungi | though i definitely plan to be in the summit session for it | 19:52 |
| krotscheck | fungi: I feel like I could go a bit faster though :/ | 19:52 |
| fungi | krotscheck: we'll bolt some wheels on you | 19:52 |
| krotscheck | …. ow. | 19:52 |
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| krotscheck | Just get me drunk first. | 19:52 |
| fungi | krotscheck: that's a nightly agenda item during the summit, i think | 19:53 |
| fungi | did anybody else have anything for open discussion? | 19:53 |
| clarkb | none here | 19:53 |
| SergeyLukjanov | nope | 19:54 |
| fungi | guess i'll button this one up. thanks everyone! hope to see you all at the summit. travel safely | 19:54 |
| fungi | #endmeeting | 19:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:54 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 6 19:54:43 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:54 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-05-06-19.01.html | 19:54 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-05-06-19.01.txt | 19:54 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-05-06-19.01.log.html | 19:54 |
| mattoliverau | thanks fungi | 19:55 |
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| ttx | Anyone here for the TC meeting ? | 20:00 |
| markmc | yep | 20:00 |
| mikal | . | 20:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:00 |
| mikal | Also, hello and good morning | 20:00 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:00 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:00 |
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| ttx | russellb, annegentle, devananda, vishy, markmcclain, jeblair, jaypipes : around ? | 20:00 |
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| mikal | anne said she couldn't make it IIRC | 20:01 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:01 |
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| jaypipes | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | same for devananda | 20:01 |
| sdague | jeblair and russellb are out | 20:01 |
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| ttx | and here comes markmcclain | 20:01 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:01 |
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| ttx | ok then let's start | 20:01 |
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| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 6 20:01:53 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| ttx | Yay, first meeting of the Juno membership! | 20:01 |
| rustlebee | o/ | 20:02 |
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| ttx | The agenda for today is intentionally light, mostly around selecting chair and making some announcements: | 20:02 |
| mordred | welcome new people | 20:02 |
| jeblair | i'm here | 20:02 |
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| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
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| markmc | welcome :) | 20:02 |
| ttx | First things first, we should approve the new membership into governance: | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/92395 | 20:02 |
| ttx | would be good to approve it now with 7+ yes | 20:02 |
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| mordred | jaypipes: or, you know, very old people | 20:02 |
| jaypipes | mordred: :P | 20:03 |
| jeblair | he's not THAT old | 20:03 |
| devananda | o/ | 20:03 |
| devananda | sort of here - at least until this plane takes off | 20:03 |
| ttx | although I guess it could count as a basic change | 20:03 |
| jeblair | devananda: is attending mordred style | 20:03 |
| markmcclain | looks like we've got 7 | 20:03 |
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| ttx | ack | 20:04 |
| mikal | Yeah, it should be trivial to vote it thorugh | 20:04 |
| ttx | approved | 20:04 |
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| ttx | #topic Selection of the TC chair | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Selection of the TC chair (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:04 | |
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| markmc | heh | 20:04 |
| ttx | This role is defined in the Foundation bylaws and the TC Charter. | 20:04 |
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| mikal | Do we nominate people? I don't remember | 20:04 |
| ttx | The TC chair is responsible for making sure meetings are held according to the rules of our charter, and for communicating the decisions taken during those meetings to the Board of Directors and the OpenStack community at large. | 20:04 |
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| ttx | Basically, the chair organizes and chairs the meetings, keeps track of resolutions and votes, sends out minutes when needed, maintains the TC wiki pages [3], keeps track of the Active Technical Contributors roster, etc. | 20:04 |
| markmc | (and for being prepared enough to copy and paste stuff into irc during meetings rather than making us wait while he/she types) | 20:05 |
| ttx | the [3] gives it away though | 20:05 |
| ttx | Since that's part of my job description I'm happy to continue doing it. Do we have other candidates ? | 20:05 |
| * jaypipes nominates ttx | 20:05 | |
| mikal | I nominate ttx | 20:05 |
| markmcclain | +1 | 20:05 |
| sdague | ++ | 20:05 |
| markmc | definitely :) | 20:05 |
| devananda | +1 | 20:06 |
| vishy | +1 | 20:06 |
| ttx | Oh why, here is a change to vote on that! | 20:06 |
| mikal | LOL | 20:06 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/92461 | 20:06 |
| markmcclain | haha | 20:06 |
| * vishy is shocked | 20:06 | |
| jaypipes | ttx: thou plan hast failed. | 20:06 |
| jeblair | +1 | 20:06 |
| mordred | +1 | 20:06 |
| mikal | Heh, fastest approval ever | 20:06 |
| mikal | That has its 7 votes | 20:07 |
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| ttx | Thanks everyone! | 20:07 |
| mikal | Congrats! | 20:07 |
| mikal | (sucker) | 20:07 |
| jaypipes | no, thank YOU | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | indeed | 20:07 |
| ttx | #topic TC meeting time | 20:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "TC meeting time (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:07 | |
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| ttx | Shall we keep this time and place for the TC meeting ? | 20:07 |
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| mikal | So... who is horribly hurt if we shift this meeting by an hour to being later in the day? | 20:08 |
| ttx | I think we actually reduced our exposition to weird TZ his time | 20:08 |
| ttx | mikal: me | 20:08 |
| mikal | This is a 5am start for me, but I can keep doing it if its the least worst choice | 20:08 |
| mikal | I just want you guys to feel sorry for me | 20:08 |
| ttx | and one hour later is the project/release meeting | 20:08 |
| jaypipes | mikal: hour or two later is fine with me | 20:08 |
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| * ttx wouldn't look forward having that meeting at 1am | 20:09 | |
| jeblair | i'm flexible, but want to attend both -- maybe we can swap them? | 20:09 |
| mikal | Swapping wouldn't help me | 20:09 |
| ttx | jeblair: wouldn't solve mikal's issue though | 20:09 |
| mikal | If its really 1am for ttx, let's stick with this time | 20:09 |
| mikal | I knew the meeting time when I ran | 20:09 |
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| mikal | I just want sympathy hugs | 20:09 |
| ttx | well, would end at 1am IF we push back one hour | 20:09 |
| * jaypipes sends hugs | 20:09 | |
| mikal | Heh | 20:09 |
| jaypipes | course, they won't get there until tomorrow.. | 20:10 |
| sdague | stupid round earth | 20:10 |
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| * mordred hands mikal a cat | 20:10 | |
| ttx | mikal: I'm happy to help you find a new home near UTC time | 20:10 |
| mikal | ttx: do you want to do a vote resolution thingie for the meeting time? | 20:10 |
| ttx | mikal: we also have internet! | 20:10 |
| ttx | mikal: not really | 20:10 |
| mikal | ttx: I like my home. We have snakes. | 20:11 |
| mikal | ttx: just a concesus here then? | 20:11 |
| ttx | let's keep it the way it is and revisit once we miss mikal a few times | 20:11 |
| mikal | I'm +1 on staying at this time then | 20:11 |
| ttx | #topic Live TC gathering/dinner in Atlanta | 20:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Live TC gathering/dinner in Atlanta (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:11 | |
| ttx | mordred: how is the organization of the TC dinner going ? | 20:11 |
| mordred | going well | 20:12 |
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| mordred | although I need to call a person and give them my credit card details | 20:13 |
| ttx | confirmed on Thursday ? | 20:13 |
| mordred | yah | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | let it be me, please, let it be me! | 20:13 |
| * ttx books | 20:13 | |
| mordred | I figure we meet up outside of the last session | 20:13 |
| mordred | and go over together | 20:13 |
| sdague | sounds good | 20:13 |
| markmcclain | sounds good | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | +1 | 20:13 |
| mordred | also - somebody should let lifeless and markmcclain know too? | 20:13 |
| ttx | you mean jgriffith | 20:14 |
| sdague | there was at one point a talk of a non dinner gathering | 20:14 |
| mordred | I do? | 20:14 |
| mordred | ok | 20:14 |
| mordred | damn | 20:14 |
| * mordred sucks | 20:14 | |
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| mordred | yes. in fact, markmcclain is right here | 20:14 |
| mikal | What time was it again? | 20:14 |
| mordred | mikal: after the last summit session | 20:14 |
| mikal | Straight after the summit sessions? | 20:14 |
| mordred | yeah | 20:14 |
| mikal | ok | 20:14 |
| mordred | meet at summit session, wander over/get cabs | 20:14 |
| markmcclain | where are we wandering? | 20:14 |
| sdague | try not to have cabs run off the road | 20:14 |
| mordred | http://www.millerunion.com | 20:15 |
| markmcclain | sweet he was finalist of beard award yesterday | 20:15 |
| mikal | sdague: so true | 20:15 |
| ttx | sdague: we already have a few gatherings scheduled with the TC/BoD thing and the ops meeting meet the TC thing | 20:15 |
| jaypipes | oh I'll have to figure out what to wear. what a bother. | 20:15 |
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| markmcclain | sdague: no highways to worry about this time | 20:15 |
| mordred | jaypipes: we have a private room | 20:15 |
| mordred | jaypipes: so don't worry about it | 20:15 |
| * devananda updates calendar | 20:15 | |
| jaypipes | :) | 20:15 |
| ttx | jaypipes: just wear something. | 20:16 |
| ttx | please. | 20:16 |
| mikal | toga! | 20:16 |
| ttx | #topic Joint BoD/TC meeting in Atlanta | 20:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Joint BoD/TC meeting in Atlanta (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:17 | |
| jaypipes | :) | 20:17 |
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| markmc | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Foundation/11May2014JointMeeting | 20:17 |
| ttx | Sunday before summit, between 3pm and 5pm we'll have the joint TC/BoD meeting | 20:17 |
| ttx | agenda at link markmc posted | 20:17 |
| markmc | this hour with 11 topics? | 20:17 |
| ttx | (I copy paste but i can adapt) | 20:17 |
| markmc | lightning talk format or what? | 20:17 |
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| lifeless | mordred: I am here ;) | 20:17 |
| ttx | It will be followed by a dinner at 6:30pm, where the Foundation staff and the User committee are also invited | 20:17 |
| ttx | Dinner will be at Der Biergarten (2 blocks from the Omni / Georgia World Congress Center) 300 Marietta St NW | 20:17 |
| ttx | markmc: no comment :) | 20:18 |
| markmc | we're close to 40 people at this meeting, right? | 20:18 |
| ttx | I think those are board meeting minutes, not metric minutes. | 20:18 |
| markmc | the board has never been this ambitious with their agenda | 20:19 |
| markmc | and this is even more people :) | 20:19 |
| vishy | 11 topics does seem a little agressive | 20:19 |
| vishy | * aggressive | 20:19 |
| mordred | lifeless: we're doing TC dinner Thursday night and you're invited | 20:20 |
| ttx | especially with everyoe around the table wanting to talk to show why they are present | 20:20 |
| lifeless | mordred: cool | 20:20 |
| ttx | vishy: I'm pretty sure we won't end at 5pm, but rather at 6:30pm | 20:20 |
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| jeblair | yeah, i think we'll need to keep to a strict schedule | 20:20 |
| ttx | jeblair: we might need to skip some topics to give more time to others | 20:21 |
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| ttx | I'd like to make sure we get to "Clarify devs usage of the OpenStack trademark" | 20:21 |
| ttx | as well have at least 5min to raise the 'CLA' issue | 20:22 |
| jeblair | depends on whether we think we can actually solve them, or if the benefit is to try to get to some common ground on all of them | 20:22 |
| lifeless | mordred: will you be sending invites via mail ? | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | did we discuss the priorities on these topics at an earlier meeting? | 20:22 |
| vishy | the product management question is most interesting to me | 20:22 |
| mordred | lifeless: nope. meet us after the final session of the day thursday and you can tag along | 20:23 |
| * devananda drops offthe meeting as the plane takes off | 20:23 | |
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| ttx | dhellmann: we made a list of suggestions, and the board accepted almost all of them in the agenda | 20:23 |
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| ttx | and didn't add much of its own | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ok, I was wondering about how the times were allocated | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | oh, this isn't just our portion of the agenda? | 20:23 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I just accepted Alan's time allocation | 20:23 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: those two hours are the part that is allocated to the joint meeting yes | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | got it | 20:24 |
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| dhellmann | a lot of these topics seem like things that aren't going to be solved by a meeting with the board, and the things that *are* important to discuss in person haven't been given much time | 20:25 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: I think the goal is to discuss and align on a set of priorities, as well as let a few problems surface | 20:26 |
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| dhellmann | ok | 20:26 |
| ttx | well, anyway, we'll see how it goes | 20:26 |
| markmc | is there a leader for each of those topics? | 20:26 |
| ttx | does anyone already know they won't be able to make it ? | 20:27 |
| markmc | might be more effective | 20:27 |
| ttx | markmc: that's a good idea | 20:27 |
| mikal | markmc: I agree having a moderator would help | 20:27 |
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| lifeless | mordred: meed you where | 20:27 |
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| lifeless | *meet* you where | 20:27 |
| markmc | leader gives 60 second intro, 10 minutes for comments from others, then move on | 20:27 |
| mikal | markmc: but I think it needs to be someone who doesn't hold a storng stance | 20:27 |
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| dhellmann | I would expect the alan to moderate, but we should have someone ready to speak briefly on each topic | 20:27 |
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| mikal | markmc: i.e. the moderator has to stay out of the conversation and just guide | 20:27 |
| ttx | markmc: the meeting is co-chaired by Alan and myself, but that doesn't mean we'd be the best moderators for EVERY topic | 20:27 |
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| ttx | markmc: I'll reach to Alan and try to put a name in front of all of those | 20:28 |
| markmc | yeah, I'm talking more about someone to introduce the topic and talk about it | 20:28 |
| markmc | probably should be the person who proposed it for the agenda :) | 20:28 |
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| dhellmann | does the board follow any formal rules for running its meetings? would those apply here? | 20:28 |
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| ttx | #action ttx to reach to Alan to see if we can have a moderator for each topic to speed up meeting | 20:28 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: it's not a board meeting, so those rules wouldn't apply | 20:29 |
| ttx | #action ttx to prepare the homework reading for the board | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | ok, just trying to set my expectations appropriately | 20:29 |
| mikal | ttx: please send us the homework too | 20:29 |
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| mikal | ttx: so we have a shared starting state | 20:29 |
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| ttx | mikal: that would probably be a couple of my blogposts on the hitory of the TC | 20:29 |
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| ttx | I need to check if what I wrote back then still applies | 20:30 |
| mikal | ttx: oh, ok. | 20:30 |
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| ttx | mikal: it's like "before the TC there was the PPB | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | ttx: if it does, we should put it in the history section of the governance repo for safe-keeping | 20:30 |
| ttx | " | 20:30 |
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| mikal | ttx: I was thinking more specific to the topics under discussion than that | 20:30 |
| ttx | mikal: oh, no, it's just that the BoD members sometimes have no idea what the TC is about | 20:30 |
| ttx | like they think the Board is above it | 20:31 |
| mikal | Heh | 20:31 |
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| rustlebee | that's kinda sad | 20:31 |
| ttx | so rather than spend meeting time explaining it, Alan suggested that I prepare some homework reading for board members | 20:31 |
| mikal | I've had at least two conversations about who should set the roadmap for OpenStack overall recently, so that would be a nice thing to discuss over dinner too | 20:31 |
| mikal | But I don't think we should add it to that agenda, as its too full already | 20:31 |
| markmc | it's kinda there already | 20:32 |
| markmc | external view of goals, product management, integrating user feedback, etc. | 20:32 |
| mikal | Yeah, this is more "where will openstack be in two / five years" | 20:32 |
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| mikal | But anyway, its an over beer conversation | 20:33 |
| markmcclain | mikal: probably be too many people at dinner to have effective conversation about it | 20:33 |
| ttx | OK, anything more on that subject ? | 20:33 |
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| markmc | kinda related, just thougt of it | 20:33 |
| markmc | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Win-The-Enterprise | 20:33 |
| markmc | a new initiative by some board members | 20:33 |
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| markmc | was mentioned on foundation@ list | 20:34 |
| markmc | ends with " Once the Board has approved the work group report from the previous phases, the workgroup will engage community members to execute Action Plans. This could include developing new blue prints, making upstream contributions and engage with other work groups (ex. analyst relations) to collaborate on the appropriate actions. " | 20:34 |
| markmc | just FYI for everyone that this is happening | 20:34 |
| mikal | That's very inline with what people are asking me about road maps | 20:34 |
| jaypipes | god I hate the term "enterprise". | 20:35 |
| mikal | i.e. who at the foundation / board / tc is tracking feature gaps which hurt openstack adoption and fixing them | 20:35 |
| markmc | I'm sure the board members involved would appreciate input on providing that input and action plans in an effective way | 20:35 |
| mikal | Yeah, I only just learnt about this initiative | 20:35 |
| rustlebee | a lot of that is happening downstream | 20:35 |
| mikal | I shall read the etherpad | 20:35 |
| rustlebee | but some more coordination would probably be a productive thing | 20:35 |
| mikal | rustlebee: it would be nice to have more cooperation on that stuff | 20:35 |
| ttx | it's also stepping over the user committee, but meh | 20:35 |
| lifeless | I think sdagues point about the user survey effectiveness is very relevant here | 20:35 |
| mikal | rustlebee: to avoid forking etc | 20:35 |
| rustlebee | kind of orthogonal to forking, i think | 20:36 |
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| rustlebee | i just mean that downstreams do these things to set their own priorities for what to work on upstream | 20:36 |
| mikal | rustlebee: ok, let me rephrase as "duplicated effort" | 20:36 |
| rustlebee | sure | 20:36 |
| markmc | I think we should welcome any group attempting to put together analysis like this | 20:36 |
| rustlebee | agree | 20:36 |
| vishy | rustlebee: the problem is that is leading to what we have today | 20:36 |
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| vishy | which is an explosion of incubated projects | 20:37 |
| markmc | doesn't let us off the hook from highlighting what we see are gaps tho | 20:37 |
| ttx | I suggest we move on to "minor governance change" and we use open discussion to continue to talk about that joint meeting | 20:37 |
| vishy | and some core concerns not getting addressed | 20:37 |
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| mikal | ttx: that's fine with me | 20:37 |
| ttx | #topic Minor governance changes | 20:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Minor governance changes (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:37 | |
| ttx | I selected a number of minor changes that should probably not wait two weeks to make further progress: | 20:37 |
| ttx | * Adds integrated and incubated release names to programs.yaml (https://review.openstack.org/81859) | 20:37 |
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| ttx | This one is ripe for approval and will cause a number of rebases | 20:38 |
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| ttx | will approve after meeting unless someone objects | 20:38 |
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| ttx | * Update sphinx doc repository layout and toctrees (https://review.openstack.org/91422) | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | I fixed that one up based on feedback about the symlinks | 20:38 |
| ttx | This one will need to be rebased on top of the recent membership updates | 20:38 |
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| ttx | but then it can be approved if nobody objects | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | yep, I'll do that tomorrow | 20:39 |
| ttx | * Render member list in HTML output (https://review.openstack.org/91450) | 20:39 |
| ttx | Depends on the previous one | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | that will be rebased at the same time | 20:39 |
| ttx | also a logistics change, will be approved if nobody objects | 20:39 |
| ttx | * Add project mission statement for Ceilometer (https://review.openstack.org/87526) | 20:39 |
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| ttx | This one still needs some feedback from the OP. Will approve if it gets 7 +1s (and shall be rebased on top of Anne's change) | 20:40 |
| ttx | * Add the Kite key distribution service to programs.yaml (https://review.openstack.org/84811) | 20:40 |
| mikal | ttx: jogo has some questions about the ceilometer one, but I asked him to comment on the review | 20:40 |
| mikal | ttx: not sure if he's done it yet though | 20:40 |
| jogo | mikal: I have | 20:40 |
| ttx | we are waiting to hear back from the owner | 20:40 |
| ttx | This one looks good, we could use the formal approval of the PTL there but once we have it, i'll approve this unless someone complains | 20:40 |
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| ttx | also will need to be rebased on top of Anne's change | 20:41 |
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| ttx | or was it already | 20:41 |
| ttx | yes it was | 20:41 |
| ttx | * Add oslo.db to the Oslo program (https://review.openstack.org/90127) | 20:41 |
| ttx | This one has PTL approval, but will need to be rebased on top of Anne's change | 20:41 |
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| ttx | All of those are not really policy changes but mostly maintenance and logistics, so will approve them without waiting for 7 YES unless someone posts a -1 | 20:42 |
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| * ttx approves Anne's one now | 20:43 | |
| dhellmann | ttx: https://review.openstack.org/92429 is similar, adding oslo.i18n | 20:43 |
| ttx | dhellmann: ok | 20:44 |
| ttx | Anne's one is now merged, that should clarify | 20:44 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:45 | |
| ttx | We shall obviously skip next week meeting | 20:45 |
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| ttx | For the week after, we have 4 projects left on our requirements gap analysis | 20:46 |
| ttx | Glance Swift Horizon and Heat | 20:46 |
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| ttx | I'll see which one can go next | 20:47 |
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| ttx | more discussion about the joint meeting ? | 20:47 |
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| ttx | is everyone coming ? | 20:47 |
| mikal | I don't need to talk about the joint meeting any more | 20:47 |
| mikal | I'm coming though | 20:47 |
| rustlebee | yep, will be there. | 20:48 |
| dhellmann | I'll be there | 20:48 |
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| vishy | yup | 20:48 |
| markmcclain | yep | 20:48 |
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| jaypipes | yup | 20:49 |
| ttx | any specific bullet point from the agenda you want a clear outcome from ? | 20:49 |
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| ttx | my pick would be on "Clarify devs usage of the OpenStack trademark" | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | I'd like the discussion of the CLA to at least lead to a "next step" decision | 20:51 |
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| dhellmann | the response to those patches that were blocked because people couldn't sign the CLA this cycle was underwhelming. | 20:51 |
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| ttx | I hope the CLA discussion will reboot some members opinion about it | 20:52 |
| ttx | so far they have had only the lawyers part of the story | 20:52 |
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| ttx | it can't hurt to hear the community side | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | right | 20:52 |
| ttx | not sure that will get to a "next action" though | 20:52 |
| ttx | also the dinner could be a better way to win the hearts of members over this issue | 20:53 |
| markmc | well, next action will be to discuss further at the cross-project session | 20:53 |
| ttx | once it's been introduced as an issue, even for just 5 min | 20:53 |
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| dhellmann | markmc: are the board members going to be able to get into that? | 20:53 |
| markmc | beyond that, it'll be getting into bringing a real proposal for change to the board | 20:53 |
| markmc | dhellmann, dunno, it's not the audience I hoped for anyway | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | ok | 20:54 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: we first need rough consensus in the dev community about it | 20:54 |
| markmc | indeed | 20:54 |
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| markmc | I'll have some background material for the board by Sunday | 20:54 |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone? | 20:54 |
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| ttx | Can't wait to see you all in a few days | 20:55 |
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| sdague | safe travels all | 20:55 |
| rustlebee | indeed | 20:55 |
| mikal | Yep, looking forward to it | 20:56 |
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| mikal | I need to change location before the next meeting, so dropping offline for a sec | 20:57 |
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| ttx | time to end meeting, thanks all | 20:58 |
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| ttx | #endmeeting | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 6 20:59:24 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:59 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-05-06-20.01.html | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-05-06-20.01.txt | 20:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-05-06-20.01.log.html | 20:59 |
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| ttx | dhellmann, dolphm, notmyname, eglynn, markwash, jgriffith, mikal, zaneb, david-lyle, kmestery, SlickNik, mtreinish, annegentle, jeblair, dtroyer, jraim, kgriffs, devananda, SergeyLukjanov, lifeless: around ? | 21:00 |
| kgriffs | o/ | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:00 |
| notmyname | here | 21:00 |
| * rustlebee disappears again | 21:00 | |
| zaneb | o/ | 21:00 |
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| mtreinish | o/ | 21:00 |
| mestery | o/ | 21:00 |
| david-lyle | o/ | 21:00 |
| jgriffith | o/ | 21:00 |
| eglynn | o/ | 21:00 |
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| dolphm | o/ | 21:00 |
| SlickNik | o/ | 21:00 |
| jraim | o/ | 21:00 |
| jeblair | o/ | 21:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 6 21:01:09 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:01 |
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| ttx | We'll once again abuse the meeting today to discuss final Juno Design Summit scheduling | 21:01 |
| markwash | o/ | 21:01 |
| ttx | Agenda at: | 21:01 |
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| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:01 |
| ttx | Should be a quick one | 21:01 |
| dtroyer | o/ | 21:01 |
| ttx | #topic Design Summit schedule finalization | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Design Summit schedule finalization (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:01 | |
| ttx | We need to produce something near-final by EOD today, so that the summit org crew can start working on session signage | 21:01 |
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| ttx | It's fine to make last-minute changes after that if we need to, but we'll have to communicate all those changes | 21:02 |
| ttx | I'd suggest post to the -dev ML if you update anything, and i'll make sure the crew gets the news | 21:02 |
| ttx | We are still missing the Barbican schedule because for some reason Jarret isn't recognized as lead by the app | 21:02 |
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| ttx | jraim: got my email ? | 21:02 |
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| jraim | ttx: yep. Just replied with our sessions. | 21:02 |
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| mikal | . | 21:03 |
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| ttx | jraim: do you have time after the meeting (will end early) so that we work on this ? | 21:04 |
| jraim | ttx sure. | 21:04 |
| ttx | Everyone else: Any change or conflict you'd like to discuss ? | 21:04 |
| mikal | I'm not tracking any | 21:05 |
| jeblair | none from infra | 21:05 |
| mestery | Nothing from neutron | 21:05 |
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| mtreinish | nothing from qa | 21:05 |
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| * SergeyLukjanov here, reading scrollback | 21:05 | |
| david-lyle | none for Horizon | 21:05 |
| dolphm | A federation design session conflicts with one a federation-related topic from the main conference: http://junodesignsummit.sched.org/event/ab0966f5ec41f78e929effd499e0286f conflicts with http://openstacksummitmay2014atlanta.sched.org/event/11b6f75c349b0bffe204e3cb2880d4c0 ... | 21:05 |
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| kgriffs | none for marconi | 21:05 |
| dolphm | was hoping to trade the Thursday 11:50a timeslot with a Thursday 4:10p timeslot (Cinder, Oslo, QA, Sahara, Swift) | 21:05 |
| ttx | dolphm: could you swap a few slots now ? | 21:05 |
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| dolphm | i'd like to get keystone people into that main conference session if possible | 21:06 |
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| ttx | hmm, let me see how that could work | 21:06 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | SlickNik, could you probably swap "clustering future" slot with something earlier to avoid conflict with sahara? (we've agreed on prev. summit to tru help on this topic) | 21:07 |
| ttx | dolphm: you could swap it with oslo's 3:10pm slot | 21:07 |
| dhellmann | ttx: some of the keystone folks need to be in that session | 21:08 |
| ttx | arh | 21:08 |
| dhellmann | the 4:10 slot might work better | 21:08 |
| jeblair | HA! there's a conference talk about infra scheduled _during_ an infra session. | 21:08 |
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| dolphm | dhellmann: that's the only option on thursday that i see that wouldn't be compromising something (for keystone, anyway) | 21:08 |
| eglynn | ttx: just to clarify ... further scheduling changes are fine without any special actions by when exactly, EoD today? (or first thing Euro-time tmrw?) | 21:08 |
| ttx | dolphm: swap with Horizon Friday 10:50am ? | 21:09 |
| SlickNik | SergeyLukjanov: There's a Replication talk earlier in the user summit that some trove folks are involved with that makes that hard to do. :( | 21:09 |
| ttx | eglynn: first thing EU time tomorrow | 21:09 |
| sdague | jeblair: yeh, well my talk is scheduled during QA track. Conflicts happen :) | 21:09 |
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| david-lyle | dolphm: horizon session at 3:30 Wed? | 21:09 |
| dolphm | ttx: that works, but would prefer thursday | 21:09 |
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| eglynn | ttx: cool thanks! (I've got an oslo track conflict I'm trying to work around) | 21:09 |
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| dhellmann | eglynn: if dolphm and I swap, the suggestion I made for the time change for you won't be available | 21:10 |
| dolphm | david-lyle: we have *another* main conference session on horizon on thursday, that we're hoping to use to drive some stakeholders into this design session, so that won't work | 21:10 |
| SergeyLukjanov | SlickNik, probably with one of the first two slots? (testing and scheduling automated tasks service) | 21:10 |
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| ttx | dolphm: trying to find a slot to swap from that has the same QA/infra/docs maping | 21:10 |
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| dolphm | ttx: have a link to your google doc handy? | 21:10 |
| jeblair | sdague: the infra talk is not being presented by an infra contributor, so it's not an urgent conflict; just interesting. would have liked to see that one. ;) | 21:10 |
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| eglynn | dhellmann: darn! ... so what would be available in its stead? | 21:11 |
| ttx | dolphm: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmUn0hzC1InKdGNXcWlWX0FIekQxbUtvRVlnVF9IV3c&usp=drive_web#gid=5 | 21:11 |
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| ttx | dolphm: swap with Oslo Tuesday 11:50am ? | 21:11 |
| ttx | err | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: nevermind, I had my days mixed up -- you're talking about wed and I'm talking about thurs | 21:12 |
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| ttx | dolphm: swap with Oslo wednesday 11:00am ? | 21:12 |
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| eglynn | dhellmann: ... cool, np, I'll continue checking that potential rejiggering so | 21:12 |
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| dolphm | ttx: this session needs to follow a 9:50a thursday main conference session | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | ttx: what's the other half of that swap? | 21:13 |
| ttx | dolphm: no Wednesday, not Friday, that limits the options | 21:13 |
| dolphm | ttx: friday is alright | 21:13 |
| clarkb | jeblair: have a link? | 21:13 |
| ttx | dhellmann: Keystone Thursday 11:50am | 21:13 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: openstacksummitmay2014atlanta.sched.org/event/956b69c8f72eb37e8f0f89400b2f8f57 | 21:14 |
| jeblair | clarkb: thursday 11:50am | 21:14 |
| jeblair | seems to be a common trouble spot | 21:15 |
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| ttx | dolphm: if dhellmann is OK with it, we could swap slots with Thursday 4:10pm | 21:15 |
| dolphm | ttx: that'd be ideal for me | 21:15 |
| clarkb | jeblair: that does sound interesting. would also be neat if they collaborated with us :) | 21:15 |
| dhellmann | ttx, dolphm : that would work for me | 21:15 |
| dolphm | success | 21:15 |
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| dolphm | dhellmann: ttx: thanks | 21:15 |
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| ttx | just increases the overlap between Oslo and infra (and reduces overlap between Oslo and QA) | 21:16 |
| ttx | dolphm, dhellmann: ok let me update the DB | 21:16 |
| dhellmann | hmm | 21:16 |
| dhellmann | hang on | 21:16 |
| * ttx hangs | 21:16 | |
| jeblair | ttx: which oslo slot is going in there? | 21:16 |
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| SlickNik | SergeyLukjanov: There's 2 trove sessions that are overlapping that makes this hard "Running HA Trove" at 9:50, and "Introduction to OpenStack Trove" at 11:00 | 21:16 |
| ttx | jeblair: rpc proxy(oslo.messaging) | 21:16 |
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| jeblair | i think we can live with that | 21:17 |
| dhellmann | that's the rpc proxy session, for which I need some of the neutron team I think | 21:17 |
| dhellmann | and moving it conflicts | 21:17 |
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| SlickNik | SergeyLukjanov: Will moving it out later to the afternoon help with the scheduling? | 21:17 |
| SergeyLukjanov | SlickNik, nope, sahara sessions starting afternoon :) | 21:17 |
| ttx | dhellmann: does it ? | 21:17 |
| SergeyLukjanov | SlickNik, let's keep it as is | 21:17 |
| ttx | dhellmann: ah yes | 21:17 |
| jeblair | but if anyone needs a thursday 11:50 slot i'd be happy to give it up | 21:17 |
| SergeyLukjanov | SlickNik, I'll ask someone from sahara community to attend this session anyway | 21:17 |
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| dolphm | there's a neutron session (modular layer2 agents) at 11:50a which would then conflict with oslo's rpc proxy | 21:18 |
| dhellmann | ttx: let me see if I can move something else | 21:18 |
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| dhellmann | dolphm: yeah, those 2 groups are going to overlap a lot | 21:18 |
| dhellmann | moving oslo stuff around is pretty hard this time -- lots of overlap, by its nature | 21:19 |
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| ttx | dolphm, dhellmann: Friday's 2:10pm one ? | 21:19 |
| dolphm | david-lyle: any problems moving horizon's devops session to thursday @ 11:50a ? | 21:19 |
| dhellmann | ttx: that might be easier to move, if the slot works for dolphm | 21:20 |
| ttx | dhellmann: argh no | 21:20 |
| * david-lyle looking | 21:20 | |
| ttx | dhellmann: that would double book two of my sessions | 21:20 |
| dhellmann | ttx: how about 4:00 friday? | 21:20 |
| dolphm | hrmph - the main conference is over friday, correct? | 21:20 |
| ttx | dolphm: yes | 21:21 |
| dhellmann | dolphm: yeah | 21:21 |
| dolphm | bah, maybe friday isn't an option for this | 21:21 |
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| ttx | dolphm: running out of options, I'll let you suggest | 21:22 |
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| david-lyle | dolphm: 11:50 Thurs for 10:50 Fri? | 21:22 |
| dolphm | david-lyle: just realized friday is less than ideal :( | 21:22 |
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| ttx | If you have other questions about the Design Summit (or anything else related to next week), please ask | 21:23 |
| ttx | Note that you are all invited to the "Meet the PTLs and TC" session of the Ops meetup: | 21:23 |
| ttx | #link http://junodesignsummit.sched.org/event/7f51ddc783eeda1789f31230b22e0444 | 21:23 |
| ttx | let's continue the slot swapping in open discussion | 21:24 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 21:24 |
| mestery | ttx: Bummer, that session is during another panel I'm a part of :( | 21:24 |
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| mikal | LOL | 21:24 |
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| mikal | Most clashes ever | 21:24 |
| ttx | mestery: we can't all be everywhere anyway | 21:24 |
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| ttx | Note that for Juno-integrated projects, we'll start 1:1s sync points the week after summit. | 21:24 |
| dhellmann | next summit, 1 month in paris | 21:24 |
| dhellmann | no overlapping tracks | 21:24 |
| ttx | eglynn, mikal, zaneb, kmestery, SlickNik, SergeyLukjanov: If you could send me UTC times you can regularly make on Tuesdays, ahead of 21:00 UTC, that would be great | 21:24 |
| mestery | ttx: Yes, for sure. | 21:24 |
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| jeblair | dhellmann: ++ | 21:24 |
| dolphm | i think i'm going to resort shuffling my own session slots around, which will solve half the audience problem | 21:25 |
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| ttx | dolphm: that's a lot simpler yes | 21:25 |
| dolphm | ttx: simpler but less ideal! | 21:25 |
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| zaneb | ttx: will do | 21:25 |
| ttx | dolphm: apparently there is no ideal solution anyway | 21:25 |
| eglynn | ttx: yep, will do | 21:25 |
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| mikal | ttx: does Monday count as ahead of Tuesday 21:00 UTC? | 21:25 |
| mikal | ttx: cause other options kind of suck for me | 21:26 |
| ttx | mikal: your Monday soes | 21:26 |
| ttx | does | 21:26 |
| mikal | Ok, cool. I shall email you options. | 21:26 |
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| ttx | jraim: we can discuss Barbican schedule now | 21:26 |
| jraim | ttx: k | 21:26 |
| mikal | ttx: does that mean end of meeting for the rest of us? | 21:27 |
| mestery | ttx: Will send you some times offline. | 21:27 |
| ttx | jraim: the sessions in your email don't correspond to the suggestions I found on http://summit.openstack.org/ | 21:27 |
| ttx | mikal: no, feel free to ask for session swaps if you need some | 21:27 |
| ttx | mikal: or drop off if you don't :) | 21:27 |
| jraim | that's correct. We combined and moved some things around so that all the topics in on the list could be addressed | 21:27 |
| mikal | ttx: I don't need any, but will hang around in case someone needs me for one | 21:27 |
| ttx | jraim: shall we enter whole new sessions and scrap the old ones ? Or try to build them from the existing ones ? | 21:28 |
| jeblair | i'm offering thursday at 11:50 if anyone needs it (but isn't critical for me) | 21:28 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, sure, probably, we could use some time slot in our tz | 21:28 |
| jraim | I was just going to enter the new ones as the folks working on Barbican will know which topics go where | 21:28 |
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| jraim | And I was going to post a message to the -dev list with the details | 21:28 |
| ttx | jeblair: hey that's my slot! | 21:28 |
| jraim | But I'm fine with editing existings if that is easier | 21:29 |
| ttx | jraim: let me see if I can fix your access | 21:29 |
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| jeblair | ttx: yep, it conflicts with the conference talk on infra, but we can watch the video i'm sure. :) | 21:30 |
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| jraim | ttx: Here is the launchpad info when I log in | 21:30 |
| ttx | jraim: you ARE jarret-raim on Launchpad right | 21:30 |
| jraim | Full name: Jarret Raim | 21:30 |
| jraim | Username: jarret-raim | 21:30 |
| jraim | Email address: jarret.raim@rackspace.com | 21:30 |
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| jraim | yep | 21:30 |
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| jraim | On the summit.openstack page, once I log in, it says: You are logged in as jarret-raim. | 21:31 |
| ttx | weird, that's what I have as lead username | 21:31 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: FYI ceilo track now changed as discussed off-line http://junodesignsummit.sched.org/type/ceilometer#.U2lRs4qPXQL | 21:31 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: thanks! | 21:31 |
| ttx | jraim: i'll enter them all to unblock you. Could you post the description for all of them in some etherpad that I can copypaste ? | 21:32 |
| jraim | ttx: sure | 21:32 |
| SlickNik | ttx: will check my Tue schedule and get back to you with a good time. | 21:32 |
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| jraim | ttx: here is the events one: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican-events | 21:33 |
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| ttx | jraim: should I just take the top part (before use cases) as the session description ? | 21:34 |
| ttx | it needs to be reasonably short | 21:34 |
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| jraim | ttx: I can cut these down to a sentence or two real quick so you can just cut and paste | 21:35 |
| jraim | one sec | 21:35 |
| ttx | jraim: that would be perfect yes | 21:35 |
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| ttx | If my interaction with jraim is the only thing left in that meeting, we should probably end it and continue that off-meeting | 21:37 |
| ttx | jraim: let's move to #openstack-dev | 21:38 |
| jraim | ttx: k | 21:38 |
| ttx | Last questions, anyone ? | 21:38 |
| dolphm | jraim: barbican's sessions are entirely on tuesday, correct? | 21:38 |
| ttx | dolphm: yes | 21:38 |
| markwash | ttx one quick one | 21:39 |
| ttx | markwash: shoot | 21:39 |
| markwash | sorry I turned into a zombie for a bit, but am back | 21:39 |
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| * ttx shoots anyway | 21:39 | |
| markwash | do you know anything about the foundation and mini-summits this next cycle? | 21:39 |
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| markwash | glance folks are already talking about the next one and we'd like to kick off the planning asap | 21:39 |
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| mikal | markwash: you mean mid cycle meetups? | 21:40 |
| dolphm | markwash: i think we're all in the same boat :) | 21:40 |
| ttx | markwash: not sure what the foundation would have to do with it | 21:40 |
| dolphm | mikal: ++ | 21:40 |
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| mikal | markwash: I'd like to announce the timing for the nova one next week, but I think I need more release details first | 21:40 |
| dolphm | ttx: we're eager to know milestone dates so we can plan mid-cycle things effectively | 21:40 |
| markwash | I thought maybe the foundation would put money in a t-shirt cannon | 21:40 |
| markwash | and fire it at the PTLs | 21:40 |
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| markwash | in the bleachers | 21:41 |
| mikal | I feel like the PTLs should negotiate a bit to avoid clashes as well | 21:41 |
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| jeblair | mikal: we've lost good ptls that way | 21:41 |
| mikal | Is there a PTLs list I can post a proposed date to? | 21:41 |
| jeblair | markwash: ^ oops | 21:41 |
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| ttx | dolphm: here is the current state | 21:42 |
| ttx | juno-1 is likely to be June 12 or June 19 | 21:42 |
| ttx | juno-2 could be July 17, July 24 or July 31 | 21:42 |
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| ttx | (trying to avoid July 24 | 21:42 |
| ttx | which is OSCON week) | 21:42 |
| ttx | juno-3 / feature freeze would be September 4 | 21:42 |
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| mestery | ttx: Those tenative dates help for the mid-cycle planning, thanks! | 21:42 |
| mikal | Excellent, thanks! | 21:42 |
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| markwash | okay so foundation -> wrong tree to bark at. no problem! | 21:43 |
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| dolphm | mikal: dibs on july 9, 10, 11 | 21:43 |
| * markwash stops barking | 21:43 | |
| ttx | markwash: well, I can ask around | 21:43 |
| dolphm | also dibs on the tshirt canon on those dates | 21:43 |
| mestery | neutron mid-cycle is tenatively going to be july 9-10-11. | 21:43 |
| ttx | ok, anything else ? | 21:44 |
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| ttx | guess not | 21:46 |
| ttx | see you all next week! | 21:47 |
| mikal | Sounds like we're done | 21:47 |
| mikal | Laters! | 21:47 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:47 |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 6 21:47:09 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:47 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-05-06-21.01.html | 21:47 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-05-06-21.01.txt | 21:47 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-05-06-21.01.log.html | 21:47 |
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