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| openstackstatus | NOTICE: All of the project infrastructure hosts are being restarted for security updates. | 00:21 |
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| yamahata | hello | 05:00 |
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| yamahata | #startmeeting neutron/servicevm | 05:06 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 8 05:06:00 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yamahata. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 05:06 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 05:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron/servicevm)" | 05:06 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_servicevm' | 05:06 |
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| yamahata | seems lonely meeting, so just brief update only. | 05:06 |
| yamahata | #topic status update | 05:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "status update (Meeting topic: neutron/servicevm)" | 05:06 | |
| yamahata | not much progress. still debugging before code publishing | 05:07 |
| yamahata | wrote documentation on dividing the blueprint into smaller elements | 05:07 |
| yamahata | #link https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/14dvV3S9Eph2z-auk34I_Ftld-lHA3VMoyNWAPRTeWgE/edit#slide=id.p | 05:07 |
| yamahata | wrote oslo.messaging proxy | 05:08 |
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| yamahata | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Oslo/blueprints/message-proxy-server | 05:08 |
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| yamahata | security should be taken care of | 05:09 |
| yamahata | Need to add more on security | 05:09 |
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| yamahata | that's all from me | 05:10 |
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| yamahata | #endmeeting | 05:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 05:11 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 8 05:11:15 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 05:11 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_servicevm/2014/neutron_servicevm.2014-04-08-05.06.html | 05:11 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_servicevm/2014/neutron_servicevm.2014-04-08-05.06.txt | 05:11 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_servicevm/2014/neutron_servicevm.2014-04-08-05.06.log.html | 05:11 |
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| sc68cal | Hello everyone | 13:58 |
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| aveiga | o/ | 14:00 |
| sc68cal | #startmeeting neutron_ipv6 | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 8 14:00:44 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sc68cal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ipv6' | 14:00 |
| sc68cal | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Neutron-IPv6-Subteam#Agenda_for_April_8th Agenda | 14:00 |
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| sc68cal | #topic blueprints | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:01 | |
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| xuhanp | hello | 14:01 |
| sc68cal | So - real quick on this one, since I don't know if Mark has e-mailed the announcement yet for neutron-specs | 14:01 |
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| baoli | hi | 14:01 |
| dzyu | hello | 14:02 |
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| sc68cal | so polish up your RST syntax and get ready to submit blueprints through the new workflow once it is announced. | 14:02 |
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| xuhanp | sc68cal, will the blueprint be reviewed and approved just like code? | 14:03 |
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| sc68cal | xuhanp: I believe so. That was one of the things mentioned when the Nova team proposed it | 14:04 |
| sc68cal | currently it is difficult to review BPs on launchpad | 14:04 |
| sc68cal | <sarcasm> There's no -1 button </sarcasm> | 14:04 |
| xuhanp | sc68cal, got it. Thanks | 14:04 |
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| sc68cal | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack/?searchtext=ipv6 | 14:05 |
| sc68cal | ( Sorry for running this meeting tightly, my latent Type A Personality has resurfaced ) | 14:06 |
| sc68cal | hence the agenda and such :) | 14:06 |
| sc68cal | anything else for Bp's - or should we move on to code reviews | 14:07 |
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| sc68cal | #topic code review | 14:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "code review (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:08 | |
| dzyu | xuhanp: what about our support code about ipv6 mode in CLI? | 14:08 |
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| xuhanp | dzyu, it has been -2'ed by Mark | 14:09 |
| dzyu | it should be one BP | 14:09 |
| sc68cal | I can explain that one - there's a patch that they're working to get merged for Icehouse that hides the IPv6 attributes | 14:09 |
| sc68cal | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/85869/ Hide ipv6 attributes for Icehouse | 14:09 |
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| sc68cal | So they'll merge it - and when the stable/icehouse branch is cut they'll revert | 14:10 |
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| dzyu | OK | 14:10 |
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| xuhanp | sc68cal, that's fine since we only support provider IPv6 after all, right? | 14:10 |
| sc68cal | They're saying that it's going to be only a couple hours where that commit will be active | 14:10 |
| sc68cal | then they'll revert | 14:10 |
| aveiga | so which modes do we officially support at this point with those patches disabled? | 14:11 |
| sc68cal | At this point - none | 14:11 |
| aveiga | it might be useful to nail them down for official use docs | 14:11 |
| aveiga | ok | 14:11 |
| sc68cal | I'm working on rebasing the work done by dzyu and xuhanp to allow provider RAs | 14:12 |
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| sc68cal | but the good news is we got the sec group RA logic merged - big props to Xuhanp | 14:12 |
| xuhanp | sc68cal, thanks! I didn't expected that was able to be merged :-) | 14:13 |
| sc68cal | :) | 14:13 |
| baoli | good job, xuhanp | 14:13 |
| shshang | +1 | 14:13 |
| xuhanp | thanks, baoli and shshang ! | 14:13 |
| sc68cal | Shixiong has been sick with the flu, I reached out to him and will probably try to pair up wiht him on his patch | 14:14 |
| shshang | well deserved | 14:14 |
| sc68cal | It's a big patch - we may want to look into splitting it and passing out the chunks | 14:14 |
| shshang | thanks, sc68cal | 14:14 |
| shshang | that's a good idea | 14:14 |
| sc68cal | that way they can't -1 them all ;) | 14:14 |
| sc68cal | hard to hit a moving target ;) | 14:14 |
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| sc68cal | Do we have any bugs to discuss - or should we go straight into open discussion? I'm really interested to hear baoli's item on the agenda :) | 14:15 |
| shshang | :) | 14:15 |
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| sc68cal | #topic open discussion | 14:17 |
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| baoli | ok, I am setting up a ipv6 testbed and tried a few things indicated on the agenda | 14:18 |
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| baoli | I found that I have to use dnsmasq version 2.68 in order to make dnsmasq hand out IPv6 addresses to VMs | 14:21 |
| aveiga | that seems odd | 14:21 |
| baoli | with ealier version, it says no address available | 14:21 |
| sc68cal | Yeah - I think we may need to bump MIN_VERSION for dnsmasq | 14:21 |
| aveiga | any particular reason why? I've been using dnsmasq for DHCPv6 for the past 4 years | 14:21 |
| aveiga | or was it 3? it's been a long time | 14:21 |
| baoli | This is with the static mode | 14:21 |
| sc68cal | bug #1233339 | 14:21 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1233339 in neutron "bump dhcp.Dnsmasq.MINIMUM_VERSION" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1233339 | 14:21 |
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| shshang | the default is 2.66, right? | 14:22 |
| baoli | I think that the earlier version works if it's the dnsmasq that allocates the address | 14:22 |
| sc68cal | shshang: default is determined by the distro | 14:23 |
| shshang | I see. I am using Ubuntu 13.04 | 14:23 |
| sc68cal | but I think we put a floor at 2.59, which is the MINIMUM_VERSION variable | 14:23 |
| baoli | I am runing ubuntun 13:10, and yes, 2.66 is the default | 14:23 |
| aveiga | that makes sense | 14:23 |
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| sc68cal | aveiga and I are on 12.04 LTS | 14:23 |
| shshang | I did the same thing, download 2.68 and compile it on my network node | 14:24 |
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| dzyu | dnsmasq 2.66 still have some problem about support SLAAC mode, I verify it in dnsmasq 2.68 | 14:24 |
| sc68cal | we might need to check what cloud-archive PPA distributes | 14:24 |
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| dzyu | dnsmasq 2.68 work well | 14:24 |
| aveiga | dzyu: what issues in particular? | 14:24 |
| aveiga | SLAAC should work just fine | 14:25 |
| dzyu | in dnsmasq log, it can not support stateless and ra-only mode | 14:25 |
| baoli | aveiga, yes, slaac works with earlier version | 14:25 |
| dzyu | yes, it said it can work, but I found this problem | 14:26 |
| aveiga | slaac or stateless? because stateless implies DHCPv6 with the O bit set | 14:26 |
| aveiga | and those are conflicting | 14:26 |
| aveiga | because ra-only means don't run the dhcpv6 server | 14:26 |
| dzyu | ra-only and stateless, dnsmasq will throw error | 14:27 |
| aveiga | right, because that's an invlaid config | 14:27 |
| aveiga | ra-only and slaac would be the valid config | 14:27 |
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| dzyu | Ok, thanks for the reminder | 14:32 |
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| sc68cal | baoli: Do you think you could do a writeup on the ML for what you did for devstack? | 14:34 |
| sc68cal | either that - or fork vagrant_devstack and add what you did and add to the chef scripts | 14:34 |
| baoli | sc68cal, will do that once I got a chance | 14:34 |
| sc68cal | https://github.com/bcwaldon/vagrant_devstack | 14:35 |
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| baoli | So basically, with some work in devstack and host config, the ipv6 only control network would work | 14:35 |
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| sc68cal | when you say control network, do you mean the API and management nets, not the network the instances run on? | 14:36 |
| baoli | sc68cal, yes. I should say management network | 14:36 |
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| shshang | management network only? | 14:37 |
| baoli | yes, use ipv6 only management network | 14:37 |
| xuhanp | baoli, we also tested IPv6 only management network in our Lab. But we are not using devstack | 14:37 |
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| xuhanp | And we fixed some bugs in glance API and other component. | 14:38 |
| sc68cal | was that for all openstack components? That's big news - I know that there was some problems with SQLALchemy connecting to v6 mysql | 14:38 |
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| sc68cal | that got fixed during this cycle | 14:38 |
| baoli | xuhanp, cool. Can you share your experience? | 14:38 |
| xuhanp | sc68cal, we opened bugs to sqlalchemy as well. And yes, it got fixed. | 14:39 |
| dzyu | python 2.6 have IPv6 urlparse issue, need notice | 14:40 |
| xuhanp | baoli, we have our own install scripts for openstack deployment and we are moving to Chef. | 14:40 |
| baoli | xuhanp, I see. | 14:41 |
| xuhanp | so nothing too fancy. We only try to make everything work by fixing problems we met. | 14:41 |
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| sc68cal | dzyu: ugh. | 14:41 |
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| xuhanp | dzyu works on that and he is contributing to Chef. Actually there are several other guys in our team do that too. | 14:42 |
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| dzyu | openstack commponent support IPv6 management network, I have fixed many such issue, you can search them in Community | 14:42 |
| shshang | xuhanp and dzyu, is the big related to the auto-installer, or MySQL? | 14:42 |
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| baoli | The code seems to be ipv4 centric in terms of setting up config defaults, etc. | 14:42 |
| shshang | sorry, bug, not big | 14:42 |
| xuhanp | so sc68cal, when you mentioned Chef scripts, I think we are already doing that. | 14:42 |
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| sc68cal | Gotcha. The vagrant_devstack needs to move to v6 at some point too, but I think we're confined by what VirtualBox supports in host-only networking | 14:43 |
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| xuhanp | shshang, which bug you are talking about? | 14:44 |
| dzyu | about mysql, but have been fixed | 14:44 |
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| sc68cal | anyone have anything else to discuss? otherwise I can give everyone back 11 minutes | 14:48 |
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| dzyu | xuhanp: shshang said bug should be sqlalchemy | 14:49 |
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| shshang | I see. thanks | 14:49 |
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| dzyu | Currently, openstack should be work well in pure IPv6 network, we have tested in Redhat 6.4.and 6.5, since not via devstack | 14:49 |
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| shshang | You mean, all nodes communication via pure IPv6, right? | 14:49 |
| baoli | dzyu, that's my impression too. | 14:49 |
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| dzyu | shshang:yes | 14:49 |
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| baoli | another thing that I saw with shshang's patch was that with slaac mode in the subnet, openstack still allocates ipv6 addresses, and installs iptable rules with those addresses. | 14:50 |
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| xuhanp | shshang, yes. there can be no IPv4 address on management network | 14:50 |
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| aveiga | baoli: are those EUI-64 addresses though? | 14:50 |
| aveiga | that's intentional | 14:50 |
| shshang | xuhanp and dzyu, this is awesome | 14:50 |
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| baoli | aveiga, no, there are like ::1, ::2, etc. | 14:50 |
| aveiga | oh, that's a bug | 14:51 |
| aveiga | file it | 14:51 |
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| shshang | baoli, please let me know the bug id so I can fix it. | 14:51 |
| shshang | thanks for bringing it up | 14:51 |
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| baoli | shshang, sure. | 14:51 |
| sc68cal | I think that's because we haven't landed the piece that assigns EUI64 addresses to ports | 14:51 |
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| sc68cal | which should be addressed by this - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86044/ | 14:51 |
| shshang | I thought dzyh's code should be in, right? | 14:52 |
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| sc68cal | shshang: no, only the part that introduced the ipv6 utils was merged | 14:52 |
| sc68cal | the changes to db_base_plugin_v2 were not merged, hence the patch that I just created | 14:52 |
| shshang | Oh......I see. That explains.....Let me take a look at my own testbed | 14:52 |
| shshang | But still, baoli, please file a bug, or at least send an email to the ML. Let me take a close look | 14:53 |
| baoli | This is not external RAs, | 14:53 |
| baoli | shshang, sure | 14:54 |
| shshang | thanks, baoli | 14:54 |
| sc68cal | baoli: yes my commit message needs to fix that | 14:54 |
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| sc68cal | it's for any time a subnet is configured with slaac or dhcpv6 stateless | 14:54 |
| aveiga | baoli: even internal RAs should be doing that, once the patch lands | 14:54 |
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| baoli | ok, let me take a close look at the patch. and see if that's the issue I was seeing. | 14:55 |
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| n0ano | #startmeeting gantt | 15:00 |
| openstack | n0ano: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress. Use #endmeeting first. | 15:00 |
| sc68cal | #endmeeting | 15:01 |
| sc68cal | sorry | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 8 15:01:06 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-04-08-14.00.html | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-04-08-14.00.txt | 15:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-04-08-14.00.log.html | 15:01 |
| n0ano | sc68cal, tnx | 15:01 |
| n0ano | #startmeeting gantt | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 8 15:01:29 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'gantt' | 15:01 |
| bauzas_ | o/ | 15:01 |
| n0ano | anyone here to talk about the scheduler? | 15:01 |
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| mspreitz | o/ | 15:01 |
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| bauzas_ | On my phone with limited access | 15:01 |
| * johnthetubaguy is lurking | 15:02 | |
| n0ano | we'll try and make it quick today (as I jinx things) | 15:02 |
| n0ano | #topic forklift effort | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "forklift effort (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:02 | |
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| n0ano | main item is reviewing the BP proposal | 15:03 |
| n0ano | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82133/ | 15:03 |
| bauzas_ | Indeed | 15:03 |
| bauzas_ | johnthetubaguy helped me | 15:03 |
| n0ano | I think this is getting close, so if people could take a look at it that would be great | 15:03 |
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| n0ano | bauzas_, you've been mainly driving this, do you need anything specific? | 15:04 |
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| bauzas_ | We are trying to identify the scope of the change | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | would be good to see if people agree with whats suggested | 15:05 |
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| bauzas_ | +1 | 15:05 |
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| n0ano | OK, we're all in violent agreement, let's see what the review comments come up with | 15:05 |
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| bauzas_ | johnthetubaguy: I have some remarks about your patchset | 15:06 |
| bauzas_ | Will do in the patch | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool, what you thinking? generally? | 15:06 |
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| bauzas_ | there are a few details to spend time on, but the most of it is good to me | 15:07 |
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| bauzas_ | T | 15:08 |
| doron | T? | 15:08 |
| bauzas_ | Oops | 15:08 |
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| n0ano | bauzas_, blame your mobile :-) | 15:08 |
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| doron | lol | 15:08 |
| bauzas_ | O:-) | 15:08 |
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| n0ano | OK, let's move on | 15:09 |
| bauzas_ | Sure | 15:09 |
| n0ano | #topic Atlanta scheduler sessions | 15:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Atlanta scheduler sessions (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:09 | |
| * doron wondering about the BP | 15:09 | |
| bauzas_ | will propose a new patchset | 15:10 |
| doron | thanks | 15:10 |
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| n0ano | in addition to the ones we mentioned last week I saw a new one: | 15:10 |
| n0ano | #link http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/45 | 15:10 |
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| bauzas_ | This one was already raised last week :-) | 15:10 |
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| n0ano | title - Reservation and Scheduling resources in OS | 15:10 |
| mspreitz | Yes, we should revisit the API discussion for holistic scheduling | 15:10 |
| bauzas_ | Yup | 15:11 |
| n0ano | bauzas_, my bad, I didn't remember it and wondered if anyone knew anything about it. | 15:11 |
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| bauzas_ | that's originating from the Climate incubation request | 15:11 |
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| bauzas_ | where TC told us to see what bits of Climate can be shared and how | 15:12 |
| mspreitz | and it runs into the larger discussion that has been rumbling along | 15:12 |
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| n0ano | OK, I wanted to be sure everyone knew about all the sessions so we can get critical mass for the discussions | 15:12 |
| bauzas_ | well, it tends to be discussed for Juno target | 15:12 |
| bauzas_ | +1 | 15:13 |
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| doron | n0ano: is there a pad with all proposals like we had in HK summit? | 15:13 |
| bauzas_ | Not yet | 15:13 |
| doron | IIRC we also aggregated several BOFs. | 15:13 |
| bauzas_ | Until they get validated | 15:13 |
| doron | right, I guess to early now. | 15:13 |
| n0ano | doron, there is a list of proposed sessions at http://summit.openstack.org/ | 15:13 |
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| doron | n0ano: I'm aware of it. I was thinking of scheduler related sessions and bofs | 15:14 |
| mspreitz | will we do Nova unconference sessions again? I liked them | 15:14 |
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| bauzas_ | don't know the eta for validating | 15:14 |
| doron | +1 | 15:14 |
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| n0ano | doron, we don't have a separate gantt track per se, just keep an eye on scheduler related topics | 15:15 |
| doron | n0ano: will do, thanks,. | 15:15 |
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| n0ano | mspreitz, I'm sure there will be an unconference, I find that attendance at those can be a little spotty | 15:15 |
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| bauzas_ | n0ano: worth it to put in ethetpad so we keep track ? | 15:15 |
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| n0ano | bauzas_, way too organized but a good idea, let me put one up | 15:16 |
| n0ano | #action n0ano to setup etherpad with scheduler related Atlanta sessions | 15:16 |
| n0ano | odd, why didn't #action do anything - oh well, I know what I'm doing | 15:17 |
| doron | n0ano: thanks. this will help me focus... | 15:17 |
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| bauzas_ | Do we have a wiki placeholder ? | 15:17 |
| doron | maybe bauzas_ propose a new patch set as #action? | 15:17 |
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| bauzas_ | n0ano: It created an action | 15:17 |
| n0ano | bauzas_, what do you mean, it's easy to create a wiki page, what did you have in mind | 15:17 |
| bauzas_ | +1 | 15:17 |
| bauzas_ | We need to keep track of the etherpad utl | 15:18 |
| bauzas_ | url | 15:18 |
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| n0ano | given that it's easy to update wiki | 15:18 |
| n0ano | scratch that, fat finger | 15:19 |
| doron | just fyi guys, in HK we had- https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IceHouse-Nova-Scheduler-Sessions | 15:19 |
| bauzas_ | :-) | 15:19 |
| doron | (still alive btw) | 15:19 |
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| n0ano | doron, tnx, I think I'll use that as a tempate for Juno | 15:19 |
| doron | n0ano: sure. just checking my memory.... | 15:19 |
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| n0ano | bauzas_, I think we need to create an offical gantt top level wiki page, with links to appropriate stuff, let me think about it. | 15:20 |
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| bauzas_ | Place me an action | 15:20 |
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| bauzas_ | I already did that for Climate | 15:21 |
| n0ano | bauzas_, you want to do the wiki? - NP | 15:21 |
| n0ano | #action bauzas_ to create top level gant wiki page | 15:21 |
| bauzas_ | I I'll take Climate wiki as pattern | 15:21 |
| * n0ano is a great believer in creative plagiarism | 15:21 | |
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| doron | :) | 15:22 |
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| n0ano | OK, moving on | 15:22 |
| doron | AKA The fine arts of copy-paste... | 15:22 |
| n0ano | #topic opens | 15:22 |
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| n0ano | anyone have anything new for today? | 15:22 |
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| toan-tran | I have a question on Instace Group API | 15:23 |
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| n0ano | toan-tran, go for it | 15:23 |
| toan-tran | there's a good progress in the blueprint | 15:23 |
| toan-tran | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/instance-group-api-extension | 15:23 |
| toan-tran | some parts are delayed to Juno | 15:23 |
| bauzas_ | Does it need a nova-specs ? | 15:23 |
| toan-tran | bauzas_: not mentioned | 15:24 |
| toan-tran | in the dashpad | 15:24 |
| mspreitz | BTW, I am interested in making a heat resource-type for that. | 15:24 |
| bauzas_ | Worth asking johnthetubaguy | 15:24 |
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| toan-tran | I wonder if we have discussion on it at the session | 15:24 |
| toan-tran | there will be Nova API 3.0 and Gantt API | 15:24 |
| bauzas_ | mmm | 15:25 |
| toan-tran | it cross my mind when we discussed the anti-affinity in the mailing list | 15:25 |
| toan-tran | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-April/032190.html | 15:25 |
| n0ano | toan-tran, you can always propose a session, if it doesn't get approved we can think about bringing the issue up somewhere else | 15:25 |
| bauzas_ | +1 | 15:25 |
| toan-tran | n0ano: I'm afraid I have to leave on Friday :( | 15:26 |
| bauzas_ | or discuss it within the Gantt API session | 15:26 |
| toan-tran | so I cannot propose any session | 15:26 |
| toan-tran | :( | 15:26 |
| n0ano | bauzas_, that was my idea for `womewhere else' | 15:26 |
| bauzas_ | mmm | 15:26 |
| toan-tran | I think that would be better to insert it into nova api 3 or gantt | 15:26 |
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| toan-tran | bauzas_: what do you think, does it fit to gantt? | 15:27 |
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| n0ano | toan-tran, your call, I'd proposal a session and ask theirry to move it if it gets scheduled for Fri | 15:28 |
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| n0ano | s/theirry/thierry | 15:28 |
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| bauzas | Sorry got disconnected | 15:28 |
| toan-tran | n0ano: thanks, that'd be great, will do that | 15:28 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, toan-tran last question was what do you think, does it fit to gantt? | 15:29 |
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| n0ano | seems appropriate to me | 15:30 |
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| bauzas | Imho yes | 15:30 |
| doron | +1 | 15:30 |
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| bauzas | provided that's a pure placement request | 15:31 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: yes it is :) mostly affinity & anti-affinity | 15:31 |
| doron | affinity is usually about it... | 15:31 |
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| mspreitz | wait | 15:31 |
| mspreitz | we do more than that in our placement work | 15:31 |
| mspreitz | but I'm lost, how did we get onto placement? | 15:32 |
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| toan-tran | mspreitz: the instance group API provides the interface to create instance group :) | 15:33 |
| toan-tran | mspreitz: but then the scene behid it is always group dpeloyment | 15:33 |
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| mspreitz | I envision evolution there of the breadth and depth of policy that can be associated with a group | 15:33 |
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| mspreitz | We have some policy types that take parameters | 15:34 |
| mspreitz | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/PolicyExtension | 15:34 |
| bauzas | My concern is about the timeline | 15:36 |
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| mspreitz | I would not expect everything at once | 15:36 |
| mspreitz | I expect, hope for, evolution | 15:36 |
| n0ano | well, sounds to me that this will be ripe for a separate session to talk this things over | 15:36 |
| bauzas | Gantt Api is not planned to be here by Juno | 15:36 |
| bauzas | we need to split out first | 15:37 |
| mspreitz | yes. Split is prior to other work | 15:37 |
| n0ano | bauzas, indeed, not as a separate API yet, for Juno it'll just be a copy of the current Nova API | 15:37 |
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| bauzas | hard work | 15:37 |
| n0ano | that's why they pay us the big bucks :-) | 15:38 |
| toan-tran | Can anybody raise debo_dutta ? He should be the right guy to say about it :) | 15:38 |
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| bauzas | the best would be to port client interface to Pecan | 15:38 |
| mspreitz | I have been sending some email, with no response | 15:38 |
| * mspreitz wonders what Pecan is | 15:38 | |
| * n0ano mspreitz +1 | 15:39 | |
| toan-tran | mspreitz: +1 | 15:39 |
| bauzas | Not something to eat :-) | 15:39 |
| doron | :) | 15:40 |
| bauzas | A wsgi controller | 15:40 |
| bauzas | For defining Rest interfaces | 15:40 |
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| n0ano | given we've come up with what, 2 APIs so far, do we really need something like Pecan then? | 15:41 |
| bauzas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/71011/ | 15:41 |
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| doron | ok. Guys I need to drop off. Will look for the meeting notes. cya soon... | 15:42 |
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| bauzas | Anyway, too early to be discussed | 15:42 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, NP | 15:42 |
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| bauzas | but porting the existing Nova Api is much more work than creating a new one | 15:43 |
| n0ano | bit of administrivia, I'm out next week (internal company conference), bauzas can you run the meeting? | 15:43 |
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| bauzas | Sure | 15:43 |
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| n0ano | #action bauzas to chair meeting on 4/15 | 15:44 |
| n0ano | OK, unless there are any last minute opens? | 15:44 |
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| n0ano | then I'll thank everyone, talk to you later | 15:45 |
| n0ano | #endmeeting | 15:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:45 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 8 15:45:15 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:45 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-04-08-15.01.html | 15:45 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-04-08-15.01.txt | 15:45 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-04-08-15.01.log.html | 15:45 |
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| mspreitz | dang, that ended fast | 15:45 |
| toan-tran | mspreitz: some regret? :) | 15:46 |
| mspreitz | I was hoping to prod people to look at my discussion of the evolutionary step from sequential to simultaneous scheduling | 15:46 |
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| n0ano | mspreitz, sorry about that, topic for email/next week maybe? | 15:46 |
| mspreitz | I am talking about email that I already sent to the ML | 15:47 |
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| * toan-tran looks at evolutionary | 15:47 | |
| n0ano | yeah, that's a problem, I'd definitely bring it up next week then (and re-prod the ML) | 15:47 |
| toan-tran | mspreitz: can you post the link? I'm interested, too. | 15:48 |
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| mspreitz | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-April/031865.html | 15:48 |
| toan-tran | mspreitz: thanks | 15:49 |
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| mspreitz | yw | 15:49 |
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| boris-42 | #startmeeting rally | 17:14 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 8 17:14:22 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is boris-42. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:14 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:14 |
| boris-42 | hughsaunders ping | 17:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: rally)" | 17:14 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rally' | 17:14 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais ping | 17:14 |
| boris-42 | aswadrangnekar ping | 17:14 |
| boris-42 | eyerediskin ping | 17:14 |
| boris-42 | stannie tzabal ping | 17:14 |
| aswadrangnekar | boris-42 hello | 17:15 |
| eyerediskin | sup | 17:15 |
| boris-42 | msdubov ping | 17:15 |
| tzabal | here | 17:15 |
| boris-42 | #topic gates & functional tests | 17:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "gates & functional tests (Meeting topic: rally)" | 17:15 | |
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| boris-42 | eyerediskin could you pls say what did you done?) | 17:16 |
| boris-42 | eyerediskin and what are current goals | 17:16 |
| xwizard_ | Hi there :) | 17:16 |
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| msdubov | boris-42 hi | 17:16 |
| boris-42 | xwizard_ hi =) | 17:16 |
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| boris-42 | kun_huang hi | 17:16 |
| kun_huang | boris-42 hi | 17:17 |
| eyerediskin | currently i work on rally-gate-jobs blueprint | 17:17 |
| eyerediskin | one job was added (rally-scenarios) | 17:18 |
| boris-42 | eyerediskin so could you pls elaborate what we are going to do on these gates | 17:18 |
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| boris-42 | eyerediskin cause I am sure that not everybody knows=) | 17:19 |
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| eyerediskin | currently we have non-voting jobs which tests rally installation on ubuntu-12.04 and centos-6 | 17:19 |
| eyerediskin | this jobs is about to be voting soon | 17:19 |
| tzabal | nice | 17:20 |
| eyerediskin | also we have non-voting rally-scenarios job, which run all scenarios from samples directory | 17:20 |
| boris-42 | eyerediskin seems like it's voting? | 17:20 |
| eyerediskin | no way | 17:20 |
| kun_huang | eyerediskin it works now, all scenarios? | 17:21 |
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| eyerediskin | omg it is voting >_< | 17:21 |
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| marcoemorais | boris-42: pong | 17:21 |
| eyerediskin | kun_huang: not all. currenly it skips large-ops scenarios | 17:21 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais hey there meeting time | 17:21 |
| boris-42 | eyerediskin does it runs anything? | 17:21 |
| boris-42 | eyerediskin where are the results?) | 17:22 |
| boris-42 | eyerediskin or some logs? | 17:22 |
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| boris-42 | eyerediskin cause actually my patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/85732/ doesn't work properly.. | 17:22 |
| boris-42 | eyerediskin and seems like check-rally-scenarios passed.. | 17:22 |
| eyerediskin | boris-42: im not sure it actually runs. i cant find any logs. im going to go deeper with this | 17:22 |
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| boris-42 | eyerediskin did you ask somebody from infra? | 17:23 |
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| kun_huang | eyerediskin I think it could be cool that seeing scenarios output in log here http://logs.openstack.org/32/85732/4/check/check-rally-scenarios/62bb2ff/console.html | 17:24 |
| msdubov | eyerediskin, boris-42 Btw how do we distinguish large-ops scenarios from other ones? Just manually set what should be skipped? | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | msdubov there is special "if" condition in copy paste lol | 17:25 |
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| boris-42 | So out future steps are: | 17:27 |
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| boris-42 | 1) add tests of CLI into rally-install jobs | 17:27 |
| eyerediskin | boris-42: sorry some power outage was here | 17:28 |
| boris-42 | 2) fix scenario gate to run actually all benchmarks (except large-ops) | 17:28 |
| boris-42 | And we will think about how to test FakeCloud (so benchmarking rally with large-ops tests) | 17:28 |
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| boris-42 | eyerediskin do you have anything to add ^ | 17:29 |
| boris-42 | or does somebody has any questions? | 17:29 |
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| boris-42 | btw marcoemorais ^ how is your patch? with preprocessing ? | 17:29 |
| eyerediskin | tests for CLI are almost done | 17:29 |
| eyerediskin | here is the patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/85738/ feel free to -1 %) | 17:30 |
| marcoemorais | boris-42: patch is not working | 17:30 |
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| boris-42 | marcoemorais what patch? | 17:31 |
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| marcoemorais | boris-42: preprocessing patch that we discussed on friday | 17:31 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais could you share what you have | 17:31 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais WIP | 17:31 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais I would like to take a look probably I'll be able to help a bit with it | 17:32 |
| marcoemorais | boris-42: ok | 17:32 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais thanks | 17:32 |
| boris-42 | #topic rally info command | 17:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rally info command (Meeting topic: rally)" | 17:33 | |
| boris-42 | msdubov please could you share your ideas with us? | 17:33 |
| msdubov | boris-42 yep | 17:34 |
| msdubov | I've prepared a doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MUufsxGYGc7GTmaN_GogbpVR_sXds6VSI6K3R9ybEmY/edit?usp=sharing | 17:34 |
| msdubov | One important point to decide is what should be the actual syntax | 17:34 |
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| msdubov | So pls take a look at this doc and tell what you think | 17:34 |
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| msdubov | I present there two possibilities for that | 17:35 |
| boris-42 | msdubov pls allow commeitng | 17:35 |
| boris-42 | msdubov for everybody | 17:35 |
| boris-42 | msdubov cause how can I comment? | 17:35 |
| msdubov | boris-42 done | 17:35 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov nice doc | 17:39 |
| boris-42 | hughsaunders marcoemorais eyerediskin thoughths ?) | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | tzabal ^ | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | anybody?) | 17:41 |
| msdubov | boris-42 hughsaunders tzabal eyerediskin What would you prefer? "Sructured" syntax or the "query-based" one? | 17:42 |
| marcoemorais | boris-42: seems like this is a souped-up version of pydoc? | 17:42 |
| tzabal | boris-42 for the work of msdubov, i like better the query based mode, but also structured is good too | 17:42 |
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| marcoemorais | msdubov: user would use rally info XXX to copy-paste stuff out of the docstrings? | 17:42 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais actually to understand | 17:42 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais what it has in rally | 17:42 |
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| msdubov | marcoemorais, e.g. you see all those sample configs in /doc | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais "rally info context" returns short explanation of what the hell is it | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | how to use it and what context you have | 17:43 |
| msdubov | marcoemorais, You can then just call "rally info ExistingCloud" to understand what that means | 17:43 |
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| boris-42 | marcoemorais such kind of smart explorer that allows you to avoid diving into the code | 17:44 |
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| marcoemorais | ok I get it | 17:44 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais btw I think that query one is good but we should exited "search" stuff | 17:45 |
| boris-42 | msdubov ^ | 17:45 |
| boris-42 | okay I think everybody agree that it is missing stuff?) | 17:46 |
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| msdubov | boris-42 What do you mean by "exited"? | 17:46 |
| boris-42 | extend* | 17:46 |
| msdubov | boris-42 So that it also will handle missspelling or smth else? | 17:46 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov to allow to find by part of name info that you are looking for | 17:47 |
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| msdubov | boris-42 Agree | 17:47 |
| boris-42 | msdubov "nova benchmarks" | 17:47 |
| boris-42 | msdubov like that=) | 17:47 |
| msdubov | boris-42 But this will make the implementation a bit more involved, as I wrote in the doc | 17:47 |
| marcoemorais | msdubov: docstrings are usually for developers so that is where I would hesitate… is there going to be a way to suppress certain parts of the docstrings from being shown to users? | 17:47 |
| msdubov | boris-42 But I also think it should be there | 17:47 |
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| msdubov | marcoemorais, I'm actually not sure we will have very complex docstrings... | 17:48 |
| boris-42 | msdubov yep I think it's not so complicated to implement | 17:48 |
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| boris-42 | marcoemorais ^ | 17:48 |
| msdubov | marcoemorais, But in any case there is always this "first line" of docstrings | 17:48 |
| msdubov | marcoemorais, Which is a short summary | 17:48 |
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| boris-42 | marcoemorais first line could be used in table when we have multiple results | 17:48 |
| boris-42 | msdubov e.g. "nova" | 17:49 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais ^ | 17:49 |
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| marcoemorais | msdubov boris-42: let us look at an example https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/rally/benchmark/scenarios/nova/servers.py#L44 | 17:49 |
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| marcoemorais | msdubov boris-42 $ rally info NovaServers | 17:49 |
| marcoemorais | emits: Tests booting an image and then listing servers. | 17:49 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais agree not perfect title.. | 17:50 |
| marcoemorais | correction: rally info NovaServers.boot_and_delete | 17:50 |
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| msdubov | boot_and_list_server? | 17:50 |
| marcoemorais | msdubov: yes | 17:50 |
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| boris-42 | marcoemorais in case of rally info NovaServers | 17:50 |
| boris-42 | it should show dosctrings of NovaServers | 17:51 |
| boris-42 | + probably list of all benchmarks | 17:51 |
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| boris-42 | in NovaServers | 17:51 |
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| tzabal | so on this example a new docstring for the class? | 17:51 |
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| msdubov | tzabal, Yes | 17:51 |
| tzabal | msdubov ok | 17:52 |
| msdubov | tzabal, The work on this blueprint will actually involve rewriting docstrings/adding new ones | 17:52 |
| msdubov | tzabal, But not only docstring | 17:52 |
| tzabal | msdubov this is very good | 17:52 |
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| msdubov | tzabal, We will have to retrieve a list of benchmark scenarios | 17:52 |
| msdubov | tzabal, which are marked by @base.scenario() | 17:53 |
| boris-42 | msdubov there is already method for that | 17:53 |
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| msdubov | boris-42, great | 17:53 |
| marcoemorais | msdubov boris-42: one thing that I think might be useful is if we emitted a prepopulated config on standard out.. let me exaplain | 17:53 |
| marcoemorais | $ rally info NovaServers. boot_and_delete_server —template-config | 17:53 |
| marcoemorais | { "NovaServers.boot_and_delete_server": [ … } | 17:53 |
| boris-42 | msdubov yep that one imho is great | 17:53 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais ** | 17:53 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais btw it can be done via doc/sampels | 17:54 |
| msdubov | boris-42, marcoemorais Agree, will add to the doc | 17:54 |
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| boris-42 | marcoemorais so just show from sample stuff | 17:54 |
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| marcoemorais | boris-42: typically I have to edit the scenario config and then keep those edited scenarios somewhere else; if we could emit the scenario config as templates to be edited by the user (like a Vagrantfile) that would be good | 17:55 |
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| boris-42 | marcoemorais you may propose some syntax for that? | 17:56 |
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| boris-42 | seems like that time is up | 17:58 |
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| boris-42 | we should move to rally chat | 17:58 |
| boris-42 | #endmeeting | 17:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 8 17:58:33 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:58 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-04-08-17.14.html | 17:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-04-08-17.14.txt | 17:58 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-04-08-17.14.log.html | 17:58 |
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| * ayoung sneaks in and looks around | 17:59 | |
| dolphm | ayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, fmarco76: ping | 17:59 |
| dolphm | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 17:59 |
| lbragstad | dolphm: hey | 17:59 |
| stevemar | o/ | 18:00 |
| marekd | o/ | 18:00 |
| gyee | \o | 18:00 |
| bknudson | dolphm: hi | 18:00 |
| jamielennox | here | 18:00 |
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| dstanek | o/ | 18:00 |
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| nkinder | o/ | 18:01 |
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| dolphm | #startmeeting keystone | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 8 18:01:49 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:01 |
| topol | o/ | 18:01 |
| dolphm | #topic Reminder: Design summit session proposals open until April 20th | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reminder: Design summit session proposals open until April 20th (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| morganfainberg | o/ | 18:02 |
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| dolphm | so, we've got 21 proposed sessions the last i counted, and i'm aware of two more that are on their way to being proposed | 18:02 |
| dolphm | we have 8 timeslots at the summit. | 18:02 |
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| bknudson | we need a longer summit | 18:02 |
| dolphm | bknudson: i don't think we do :) | 18:02 |
| dolphm | by my count, we should be able to fill those 8 nicely, by merging them | 18:03 |
| dolphm | several proposals are near dupes, or closely related | 18:03 |
| jamielennox | i haven't proposed anything related purely to keystoneclient (or seen anyone else do it) - i take it we are expecting one/ | 18:03 |
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| dolphm | jamielennox: please do! | 18:03 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: i'm planning for *something* client side to be one of those 8 | 18:03 |
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| morganfainberg | ooh we got 8 slots? | 18:04 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: i have less that is related purely to keystoneclient rather than all clients, but i'll propose and people can add to it | 18:04 |
| bknudson | is one of the slots for the deployer feedback? | 18:04 |
| gyee | jamielennox, keystoneclient seems like a good fit for cross-project, from integration standpoint | 18:04 |
| dolphm | we should also have some dedicated space in the dev-lounge type area, so we can take certain topics there as well for smaller discussions | 18:04 |
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| dolphm | bknudson: so far, yes | 18:04 |
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| dolphm | gyee: cross-project track deadline is this week | 18:05 |
| dolphm | for proposals | 18:05 |
| ayoung | client, tokens, Federation (and LDAP) , Hierarchy (to include Policy), | 18:05 |
| jamielennox | gyee: i did one that was cross-project: http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/205 | 18:05 |
| ayoung | bascially, I made a bunch of proposals that were supposed to be buckets | 18:05 |
| jamielennox | (i need to do a better job of wording it) | 18:05 |
| ayoung | Didn't make a client one | 18:05 |
| dolphm | if there's not actual items that need to be designed / discussed, it won't be worthy of a session | 18:06 |
| ayoung | Tokenless Keystone Operations that one was for gyee | 18:06 |
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| gyee | client * middleware, especially middleware, auth_token is screaming out for refactoring | 18:06 |
| dolphm | so a bucket alone isn't worth consideration without meaningful topics to fill it | 18:06 |
| dolphm | gyee: "refactor" isn't something we need to fuss over at the summit, either | 18:06 |
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| bknudson | we were going to pull middleware to its own repo? | 18:06 |
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| jamielennox | gyee: oh there is plenty to do on the client - it's just what really needs discussing | 18:06 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: that came up somewhere recently as well | 18:07 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, was goign to bring that up specifically at the end of the meeting today since we're early in a cycle we could do it. | 18:07 |
| dolphm | bknudson: there's clearly some desire to - i'd be worried that we'd have to create a fourth repo as well, for things like cms | 18:07 |
| ayoung | dolphm, right...those were the ones I knew we had something to talk about...feel free to close mine if there is a comparable other submission that is more explicit | 18:07 |
| gyee | dolphm, jamielennox, I would like to see auth_token not putting stuff in the headers anymore | 18:07 |
| gyee | should stash them into the environ | 18:07 |
| dolphm | we'd end up with keystone, python-keystoneclient, keystonemiddleware, and keystonelib or something | 18:07 |
| bknudson | dolphm: I don't think we've got a circular dependency | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, that isn't a bad breakdown imo | 18:08 |
| ayoung | python-keystoneclient, would be deprecated, as we are moving to unified cli? | 18:08 |
| bknudson | ohh, I guess keystoneclient would import middleware until it's moved. | 18:08 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, ++ | 18:08 |
| dolphm | everything would depend on keystonelib in that breakdown | 18:08 |
| dolphm | ayoung: not yet; it'd be deprecated by python-openstacksdk if anything | 18:08 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: what would keystonelib be as seperate from client? | 18:08 |
| ayoung | although I might suggest that keystonelib should be keystoneclient, if only to keep the git history | 18:08 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: keystone.common.cms for example | 18:08 |
| jamielennox | because if it's session and auth plugins then it's more generic that that | 18:09 |
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| stevemar | sounds like we're having the client design session now :) | 18:09 |
| lbragstad | wouldn't python-keystone client still be required since it is used but the unified client? | 18:09 |
| dolphm | pretty much - this is a worthwhile summit session :) | 18:09 |
| gyee | stevemar, yes sir indeed | 18:09 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, anything that is common between client and keystoneserver I would think | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | lbragstad, yes, but it wouldn't be the same as the CLI it currently is | 18:09 |
| jamielennox | ok - i'll put up a summit session for client today | 18:09 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: yes, if/until it's replaced by python-openstacksdk | 18:09 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: thanks | 18:09 |
| lbragstad | morganfainberg: dolphm ok, makes sense | 18:10 |
| ayoung | We also have cross-project summit sessions, right? | 18:10 |
| dolphm | ayoung: yes | 18:10 |
| ayoung | http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/95 is Python OpenStack SDK. | 18:10 |
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| gyee | dolphm, who make the decision on x-project sessions? PTLs? | 18:10 |
| ayoung | http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/205 is Jamies | 18:10 |
| ayoung | python-*client standardization | 18:11 |
| dolphm | gyee: good question, i'm not sure | 18:11 |
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| nkinder | ayoung: there's also the one that jamielennox already mentioned (http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/205) | 18:11 |
| dolphm | gyee: i don't even have access to moderate keystone sessions yet - it's still too early | 18:11 |
| ayoung | nkinder, beat ya too it | 18:11 |
| jamielennox | I'm hoping/assuming that there will be plenty of -sdk talk, i still haven't figured out what they want to be | 18:11 |
| ayoung | heh | 18:11 |
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| dolphm | gyee: probably, yes, though | 18:11 |
| bknudson | jamielennox: from the latest discussion sounded like the current clients just in one lib | 18:11 |
| gyee | dolphm, k, please update us if you have more info on that, I'll try to dig around too | 18:12 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: i think "everything to everyone" is the answer :-/ | 18:12 |
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| ayoung | We might be able to punt on a Keystone specific talk in favor of "Hierarchical Multitenancy in Every Project" | 18:12 |
| bknudson | openstacksdk has a loonnnggg ways to go | 18:13 |
| dolphm | gyee: in the mean time, comment on sessions you're interested in, or not. feedback on summit.openstack.org (and the mailing list, etc) is really important for the whole selection process | 18:13 |
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| jamielennox | bknudson: yea i have been following but they are talking dolphm's everything approach and i don't think it's sustainable | 18:13 |
| gyee | dolphm, thanks, will do that this week | 18:13 |
| dolphm | that's also why it's too early to make too many guesses about what sessions will be accepted/merged/rejected -- there's not enough feedback yet for many sessions, and there are yet-to-be-proposed sessions to consider as well | 18:14 |
| dolphm | on that note ... | 18:14 |
| dolphm | moving on :) | 18:14 |
| dolphm | #topic Reminder: Review Icehouse release notes | 18:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reminder: Review Icehouse release notes (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:14 | |
| dolphm | just a quick reminder to take a pass at: | 18:15 |
| dolphm | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Icehouse | 18:15 |
| dolphm | there's been a few things added, and there's a few TODO's noted that need to be fleshed out | 18:15 |
| dolphm | if you're familiar with those features, contributions very much welcome :) | 18:15 |
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| dolphm | most of them are in Upgrade Notes | 18:15 |
| ayoung | dolphm, do contribution have to pass a bknudson code review? | 18:15 |
| dolphm | ayoung: yes? | 18:15 |
| topol | only ayoungs... | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | topol, ++ :P | 18:16 |
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| bknudson | I will probably fix speling errors if I see them. | 18:16 |
| dolphm | i'll fix wiki syntax :P | 18:16 |
| gyee | bknudson, urban dictionary words ok? | 18:16 |
| ayoung | any TODOs that are egregious? | 18:16 |
| topol | so is there just a place toa dd comments on the wiki or we all have edit access? | 18:17 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: see for yourself? nothing crazy IMO | 18:18 |
| ayoung | dolphm, yeah, nothing jumped out at me.... | 18:18 |
| dolphm | topol: everyone should have edit access with an LP account | 18:18 |
| dolphm | s/an/a/ | 18:18 |
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| dolphm | anyway, let's talk about something more exciting! | 18:18 |
| dolphm | #topic Security review | 18:18 |
| topol | dolphm, K | 18:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Security review (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:18 | |
| dolphm | nkinder: o/ | 18:18 |
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| dolphm | nkinder: have a link to your mailing list discussion? i'm coming up empty handed | 18:19 |
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| nkinder | dolphm: sure... | 18:19 |
| nkinder | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-April/032046.html | 18:20 |
| dolphm | nkinder: thanks! | 18:20 |
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| dstanek | nkinder: i noticed that the wiki page was showing the source of algorithms as passlib. is that intentional? passlib actually uses the hashlib implementation if I remember correctly | 18:20 |
| dolphm | hopefully everyone saw this, this is obviously a worthwhile effort :) | 18:20 |
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| ayoung | dstanek, that rings true | 18:20 |
| nkinder | dstanek: PassLib does both | 18:20 |
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| nkinder | I read the code, and they implement their own rc4, etc. | 18:21 |
| nkinder | ...but they do use hashlib too | 18:21 |
| ayoung | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/tree/keystone/common/utils.py#n26 | 18:21 |
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| dstanek | i don't think they implement sha* though | 18:21 |
| nkinder | dstanek: correct | 18:21 |
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| ayoung | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/tree/keystone/common/utils.py#n110 | 18:21 |
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| lbragstad | sha512 | 18:22 |
| bknudson | for the "Potential improvements" -- we're not planning to do those for icehouse? | 18:22 |
| lbragstad | and http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/tree/keystone/common/utils.py#n125 | 18:22 |
| ayoung | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/tree/keystone/common/utils.py#n117 salted sha is ugly, but necessary for the LDAP simple bind approach. Ideally, that would be replaced, but I think the only viable alternative is Kerberos | 18:22 |
| gyee | nkinkder, is this an OSS initiative? | 18:22 |
| nkinder | dstanek: perhaps it's not clear, but I was trying to point out that sha1 is used by PassLib (not necessarily implemented by) | 18:22 |
| ayoung | bknudson, we are plannign on imporvindg from Eventlet to Apache HTTPD | 18:23 |
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| nkinder | ok, let's talk about it at a high-level instead of specific crypto details | 18:23 |
| dolphm | dstanek: passlib does use hashlib, for example https://code.google.com/p/passlib/source/browse/passlib/handlers/md5_crypt.py | 18:23 |
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| nkinder | I'm trying to get projects interested in gathering and maintaining this sort of info from release to release | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | nkinder, ++ | 18:24 |
| lbragstad | nkinder: ++ oslo has a bunch of stuff too.. which may or may not get used in other projects | 18:24 |
| nkinder | This is useful for OpenStack deployers of course, but it's also really good from a development standpoint | 18:24 |
| dolphm | nkinder: is there any reason why this shouldn't be tracked in tree, and code reviewed along with the impacting changes? | 18:24 |
| ayoung | ldap_hash_password ... I assume that was only called if you create a user via the LDAP backend, which is not someth8ing I would expect a real deployment to do, but I've been surprised before. | 18:24 |
| nkinder | Instead of just saying "we should all do this", I audited Keystone myself first to show how I think it might look. | 18:24 |
| bknudson | dolphm: in doc/source ? | 18:24 |
| dolphm | bknudson: yes. nkinder: wiki sounds like a decent place to get these docs moving, but we can enforce their maintenance in gerrit | 18:25 |
| nkinder | dolphm: in tree is fine too | 18:25 |
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| bknudson | I like that | 18:25 |
| lbragstad | me too, | 18:25 |
| nkinder | dolphm: so first I want to see if there is interest from each project. Sounds like there is for Keystone. | 18:25 |
| topol | nkinder++ that is an important initiative youa re driving | 18:25 |
| nkinder | Second is what form should the info be kept in (in git, wiki, etc.) | 18:25 |
| bknudson | people are always asking for this info | 18:25 |
| dolphm | nkinder: absolutely, it sucks not being able to refer people to docs like these :-/ (until now!) | 18:25 |
| stevemar | wiki seems good enough for now | 18:25 |
| nkinder | anyone can screw with the wiki, so it's not the best place for authoritative info | 18:25 |
| nkinder | yeah, good for now though | 18:26 |
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| dstanek | tree is good for some stuff - but if you continue down this track we'll have a while bunch of attack vectors we need to document | 18:26 |
| dolphm | dstanek: that's an interesting point... | 18:26 |
| bknudson | there's another effort for the threat analysis | 18:26 |
| ayoung | Security bugs got in Launchpad until we have a fix, obviously | 18:26 |
| nkinder | yeah, this is more of a high-level instead of a full threat analysis | 18:26 |
| dolphm | this effectively becomes a release deliverable if it's in-tree, rather than a best-effort community thing | 18:26 |
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| dstanek | so far this is really just code level implementation, but i can see whating to document lots of other stuff too | 18:27 |
| nkinder | dolphm: well, I'd like to make it a release deliverable | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | I think it would be important to keep it simple right off the bat, description of why we need the encryption, names of the hashes used, maximum key length/strength, is it end user configurable? | 18:27 |
| stevemar | dolphm, good point | 18:27 |
| ayoung | "go in" man my typing is worse than usual today | 18:27 |
| nkinder | lbragstad: +1 | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | something in a chart form | 18:27 |
| bknudson | it'll be available here if in doc/source -- http://docs.openstack.org/developer/keystone/ | 18:27 |
| nkinder | Keep it simple so we can actually acheive the goals | 18:27 |
| dstanek | lbragstad ++ | 18:27 |
| ayoung | It would be nice if we had ethercalc for charts | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | someone can look up if pycrypto is used, and if an end-user can bump up the key strength | 18:27 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: keeping it simple in the long run is important for maintainability :) | 18:27 |
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| topol | nkinder do we have any provenance information on what crypto libraries are used and who dveeloped them? | 18:28 |
| nkinder | The tables shoudl really say what is used, and why (by what feature) | 18:28 |
| stevemar | dstanek, even if it's in tree, it's not like we don't neglect the docs :( | 18:28 |
| dstanek | stevemar: :-) | 18:28 |
| nkinder | topol: all we really have is what I've collected on that page so far | 18:28 |
| topol | nkinder, K | 18:28 |
| ayoung | what about something under Anne Gentle's team instead of under keystone? Seems like a cross product doc effort? | 18:28 |
| nkinder | ayoung: for publishing, that would likely work | 18:29 |
| bknudson | there's a security guide... | 18:29 |
| dstanek | in-tree would probably be fine, but i can definitely see things that audit logs and other artifacts out of tree | 18:29 |
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| dstanek | s/that/like/ | 18:29 |
| dolphm | ayoung: they're already responsible for publishing keystone/docs | 18:29 |
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| nkinder | ayoung: but each project should own the info on their own project and keep it up to date as code changes are made | 18:29 |
| bknudson | http://docs.openstack.org/security-guide/content/ | 18:29 |
| ayoung | then lets do it in tree | 18:29 |
| dolphm | nkinder: ++ | 18:29 |
| lbragstad | nkinder: right, | 18:29 |
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| nkinder | We can then use that info to populate the Security Guide if we want to provide an overview of used crypto | 18:30 |
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| nkinder | ok, so in tree it is. Any suggestions on format? | 18:30 |
| dolphm | does anyone have any criticism of what's available on https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Security/Icehouse/Keystone currently? | 18:30 |
| nkinder | markdown? something else? | 18:30 |
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| nkinder | dolphm: I do :) | 18:30 |
| dolphm | nkinder: docs/ uses RST already | 18:30 |
| nkinder | dolphm: some things are missing or need to be filled in more | 18:30 |
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| nkinder | dolphm: but we can discuss those on IRC outside of this meeting | 18:31 |
| dolphm | nkinder: i'd like to see Potential Improvements filed as Wishlist bugs and tagged with 'security' | 18:31 |
| lbragstad | nkinder: when do we plan to have a format up? | 18:31 |
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| dstanek | dolphm: great idea - i'll start posting those after this meeting | 18:32 |
| dolphm | nkinder: you can then link this doc to https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bugs?field.tag=security - rather than duplicating those in the doc | 18:32 |
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| nkinder | So the other thought is that we can use the security-impact keyword to flag when a code change requires an update | 18:32 |
| dstanek | idea are flooding in :-) | 18:32 |
| nkinder | dolphm: +1 on filing the improvements. Those were just items that I had ideas on, so feel free to chime in with others. | 18:32 |
| dolphm | nkinder: i'd rather the code change include the doc update AND include SecurityImpact ;) | 18:33 |
| nkinder | lbragstad: I can work on a format, though I'm not familiar with RST | 18:33 |
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| nkinder | dolphm: yes, both in one patch would be ideal | 18:33 |
| bknudson | nkinder: here's the link I use -- http://docutils.sourceforge.net/rst.html#user-documentation | 18:33 |
| lbragstad | nkinder: ok, cool. I can help out with that too. | 18:33 |
| nkinder | dolphm: then we can -1 changes that skipped updating the doc. | 18:33 |
| dolphm | nkinder: ++ | 18:33 |
| nkinder | lbragstad: that would be much appreciated | 18:33 |
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| nkinder | did most of my audit look accurate to everyone? Is there anything important that I missed? | 18:34 |
| bknudson | lbragstad: we've got scans for the other projects, too? | 18:34 |
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| nkinder | bknudson: not yet. I need to go around and evangelize that... | 18:34 |
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| dstanek | nkinder: only thing confusing to me where what implementation was used for algorithms | 18:35 |
| dstanek | other than that i thought it was great | 18:35 |
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| nkinder | bknudson: I'm really hoping to get buy-in from everyone such that this can be a part of our normal release process | 18:35 |
| dolphm | hrm, i also just realized this encompasses both keystone and keystoneclient (and some of this would be moved to keystonelib if that existed) | 18:35 |
| topol | nkinder++ | 18:35 |
| nkinder | dstanek: any suggestions on how it could be represented to be more clear? | 18:35 |
| ayoung | nkinder, as I mentioned before, the "Self signed certificates" approach needs to die | 18:35 |
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| nkinder | dolphm: yeah, they are kindof wrapped together | 18:35 |
| dstanek | nkinder: i can't tell if we are using three different sha1 implementations or if there are three different wrappers to the same implemenation | 18:36 |
| stevemar | dolphm, whys that an issue? | 18:36 |
| dolphm | nkinder: this one wiki page should be split into python-keystoneclient/docs and keystone/docs then -- and probably cross-linked to each other since they're so closely related | 18:36 |
| ayoung | stevemar, auditability | 18:36 |
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| nkinder | dstanek: ah, yeah. The wiki table made that odd. | 18:36 |
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| dolphm | stevemar: because a client change shouldn't require docs in the keystone/ repo to be updated, for example | 18:36 |
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| ayoung | you want to make sure that, if there is an known issue in an implementation, you've updated the vulnerability | 18:36 |
| nkinder | dstanek: it's all just sha1 (hashlib), but it was for threee different usages | 18:37 |
| stevemar | we'll probably have a lot of duplication | 18:37 |
| ayoung | updated beyond the vulnerability | 18:37 |
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| nkinder | stevemar: in what regards? between projects? | 18:37 |
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| stevemar | if we split the wiki contents to keystone/docs and keystoneclient/docs | 18:37 |
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| nkinder | stevemar: yeah, that's why I avoided it and just called out the source files. | 18:38 |
| nkinder | ...but it's going to have to be split if we keep the docs in tree | 18:38 |
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| stevemar | i guess so :) | 18:39 |
| bknudson | can we backport doc updates? | 18:39 |
| nkinder | ok, well next steps seem to be to work on the formatting, then we can decide how to organize it between repos. | 18:39 |
| dstanek | nkinder: yeah, something like that works | 18:39 |
| dolphm | bknudson: yes | 18:39 |
| dolphm | bknudson: not sure if they'd be consumed that way though | 18:39 |
| ayoung | dolphm, rc2 window is closed, right? | 18:40 |
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| topol | dolphm, whats the criteria for backporting doc updates? Just critical; stuff? | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, yes | 18:40 |
| dolphm | ayoung: yes | 18:40 |
| nkinder | we can use wiki for Icehouse, and in-tree for Juno | 18:40 |
| ayoung | dolphm, when do we expect rc2 announced, then? | 18:40 |
| nkinder | Icehouse will largely be going back and reviewing what we've already done anyway | 18:40 |
| bknudson | I don't know if we can get to havana keystone developer docs. | 18:40 |
| dolphm | topol: there's no precedence in keystone, afaik - but i'd happily propose doc corrections & additions to stable-maintenance | 18:40 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: it was released this morning | 18:41 |
| bknudson | http://docs.openstack.org/havana/ just links to http://docs.openstack.org/developer/keystone/ | 18:41 |
| ayoung | Ah... | 18:41 |
| ayoung | need to catch up on email | 18:41 |
| dolphm | ayoung: i meant to mention it at the beginning of the meeting, but forgot to put it on the agenda | 18:41 |
| annegentle | bknudson: mostly the keystone docs are common and embedded | 18:41 |
| dolphm | ayoung: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack/2014-April/006468.html | 18:41 |
| stevemar | bknudson, then no need to backport! | 18:42 |
| annegentle | bknudson: http://docs.openstack.org/admin-guide-cloud/content/ch-identity-mgmt-config.html | 18:42 |
| ayoung | So....that is probably Icehouse.... | 18:42 |
| annegentle | bknudson: oh sorry you're talking about dev docs | 18:42 |
| dolphm | annegentle: ++ | 18:42 |
| bknudson | annegentle: well, we had discussed whether to put the security notes in dev docs or other docs. | 18:43 |
| nkinder | annegentle: yeah, this is security guide related as well. | 18:43 |
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| dolphm | annegentle: we're discussing backports for openstack/keystone/docs to stable/ branches, for the purpose of documenting security-relevant topics | 18:43 |
| nkinder | annegentle: we're talking about having some security info from each project feed into the Security Guide. | 18:43 |
| dolphm | annegentle: (for docs that don't exist in-tree yet, just on the wiki) | 18:43 |
| annegentle | ah you won't get point-in-time publishing of dev docs | 18:43 |
| annegentle | nkinder: cool, great. | 18:43 |
| dolphm | annegentle: are you aware of any distros or anyone doing anything with stable/ dev docs? | 18:44 |
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| annegentle | dolphm: the only stable/relname docs are in openstack-manuals and it's just the install guide and the config ref. We could add the security guide though, just a matter of deciding on it | 18:44 |
| nkinder | annegentle: I can chat with you offline about the idea to get your recommendations on the best way to do that from a format perspective (it's sort of the same thing we need to figure out for OSSNs). | 18:44 |
| annegentle | nkinder: sure | 18:44 |
| nkinder | annegentle: ok, I'll shoot you an e-mail on it. | 18:45 |
| bknudson | I like the dev docs because it's easy to update with the code. | 18:45 |
| bknudson | also, we can look at them on github | 18:45 |
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| stevemar | ++ | 18:45 |
| nkinder | bknudson: +1. It will help to keep it in sync | 18:45 |
| annegentle | bknudson: but security affects all of openstack and is more of an integrated project set of issues | 18:45 |
| dolphm | bknudson: ++ | 18:45 |
| annegentle | bknudson: nkinder: prioritization and discipline around it keeps it in sync | 18:46 |
| nkinder | I do want to see what other projects think as well, as they may have different ideas | 18:46 |
| bknudson | annegentle: well, I also like the security guide because it's going to be consumed outside of developers | 18:46 |
| dolphm | nkinder: if they have better ideas, please share :) | 18:46 |
| dolphm | nkinder: definitely bring this up at the barbican meeting as well :D | 18:46 |
| ayoung | ++ | 18:47 |
| nkinder | dolphm: will do! | 18:47 |
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| nkinder | I'm happy to see all of the interest in it! | 18:47 |
| dolphm | sounds like we have some agreement here for now, and there's nothing left on the agenda for today, so: | 18:47 |
| dolphm | #topic open discussion | 18:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:47 | |
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| dolphm | 12 free minutes | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | Quick plug | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | sql collapse: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/78169/ this needs some feedback on the fk/constraint/index naming etc | 18:48 |
| bknudson | +395, -4758 | 18:48 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: i wanted to run db_sync 36 with and without that patch on mysql & postgres prior to +2'ing -- have you done either of those and compared sqldumps? | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | i'd like to implement consistent naming across the board, which requires a migration to sync all prodiuction deployments, but i want to get it right in that review as the base | 18:49 |
| dolphm | bknudson: auto +2 | 18:49 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, i did that when developing this. | 18:49 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, but... the FK / constraint / etc names are difference | 18:49 |
| morganfainberg | and with SQLA and postgres there are oddities that require explicit naming | 18:49 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: if you have a diff handy, could you paste one? | 18:49 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, i'll need to re-run it, the diff came pre icehouse | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, so i'll re-run and post the diffs | 18:50 |
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| jamielennox | i have a request for some client reviews please - they are stagnating again, we are back to the point where there are a few difficult ones to process so come find me if you are unsure of any reasoning | 18:50 |
| topol | morganfainberg, whats the magic that allows you to compress so much??? | 18:50 |
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| dolphm | topol: dropping support | 18:50 |
| jamielennox | re-reading that it was way to gentle: do client reviews! | 18:50 |
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| morganfainberg | jamielennox, i expected less gentle this time :P | 18:50 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, did you run that against livetests for both mysql and postgresql? bknudson can one of you IBMers confrim the DBishness of that smooshing? | 18:50 |
| dolphm | topol: for essex and folsom | 18:50 |
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| topol | dolphm, thats awesome. so much less code to look at | 18:51 |
| dolphm | topol: and less to maintain! | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i had no issues with the migrations working under mysql and postgres, that seems like all the _live_tests do | 18:51 |
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| gyee | jamielennox, I'll take a look | 18:51 |
| topol | dolphm, I may actually look in that folder now :-) | 18:51 |
| gyee | I also commented on the configurable hash algorithm review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/80401/ | 18:51 |
| dolphm | topol: this also means faster tox run times :) | 18:51 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, but before i went too much further i wanted to snag people for the FK / ix / ixu naming | 18:51 |
| dolphm | topol: ha | 18:51 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, yeah....need to take another look at getting out sql unit tests running against the real databases again | 18:51 |
| gyee | we need to embed the algorithm into token data | 18:51 |
| bknudson | ayoung: I'll try it out with my db2 setup. | 18:51 |
| dstanek | has anyone run the unit tests against mysql? i was having a bunch or problems with it | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, not much faster. we don't migrate for most tests now we use sqlite reflection in memory | 18:52 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, FK naming should be in a DBMS specific manner, I think | 18:52 |
| ayoung | dstanek, I have not tried in over a year | 18:52 |
| bknudson | gyee: I'll take a look at embedding the algorithm. | 18:52 |
| bknudson | gyee: why is that necessary? | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, except that we can't use reflection if needed to interact with it then | 18:52 |
| topol | we need to keep a record of the patch that replaces a huge chunk of code with a smaller replacement. And that person gets a prize every release | 18:52 |
| nkinder | jamielennox: you need more of a mean-streak... ;) | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, mysql would be _ibfkXX posgres is _fkey, etc | 18:52 |
| gyee | bknudson, otherwise, it will break rolling upgrade | 18:52 |
| dolphm | bknudson: you don't seem to be impacting /v3/OS-REVOKE/ ? | 18:52 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, yes, and its ug-ga-lee.... | 18:52 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, a consistent naming convention would be good. | 18:53 |
| topol | Sort of like the hourly high poker hand at the card room | 18:53 |
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| bknudson | dolphm: I haven't looked at OS-REVOKE... will do | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, and there are times reflection use is important (notably in some migrations) | 18:53 |
| dolphm | err, that's not where the revocation *list* lives... | 18:53 |
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| bknudson | dolphm: does it have token hashes? | 18:53 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, I'm ok with reflection use, I was not the one that protested it. | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i know. | 18:53 |
| dolphm | bknudson: /v2.0/tokens/revoked is completely undocumented - ayoung: do we expose the token revocation *list* on v3? | 18:53 |
| dolphm | ayoung: or just events? | 18:53 |
| ayoung | BTW...if we change the token hash algorithm...all old tokens should be revoked.... | 18:53 |
| bknudson | there's no revocation list on v3... we've got the certs | 18:54 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I thought just v2....let me confirm | 18:54 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, but anyway, i want something we can programatically interact with / validate if we choose. anyway topic to be continued on gerrit review post meeting | 18:54 |
| dolphm | bknudson: if there's no existing docs to update, go ahead and +A the client-side review | 18:54 |
| ayoung | dolphm, V3 as well: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/tree/keystone/auth/controllers.py#n457 | 18:54 |
| ayoung | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/tree/keystone/auth/routers.py#n37 | 18:55 |
| bknudson | dolphm: I'm going to look into the hash algorithm in the tokens... does the middleware care? | 18:55 |
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| bknudson | it tries to hash the token right away to see if it's in the cache | 18:55 |
| ayoung | bknudson, yes it cares | 18:55 |
| gyee | bknudson, ^^ what he says | 18:55 |
| bknudson | but this is before it's even validated it. | 18:55 |
| ayoung | bknudson, might not be a real issue | 18:55 |
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| bknudson | this is before auth_token has validated the pki token | 18:56 |
| bknudson | the revocation list will have the hash algorithm | 18:56 |
| ayoung | if the middleware hashes the token...it would be wierd for anything other than a local memcached look up. In theory, middleware could skip PKI validation and do a remote verification | 18:56 |
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| gyee | bknudson, middleware should get the algorithm from token data, not configurable | 18:57 |
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| ayoung | that would take an explicit setting of a config value. So if it hashed to MD5, but the serve was doing sha256, token validation would fail | 18:57 |
| dstanek | ayoung: just ran against mysql and had over 2200 failures (can't create federation tables and unicode won't work) | 18:57 |
| bknudson | ok, middleware gets a token hash -- it doesn't know what algorithm was used. | 18:57 |
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| ayoung | dstanek, ran what against mysql? morganfainberg 's patch? | 18:57 |
| dstanek | ayoung: the unit tests on master | 18:58 |
| gyee | bknudson, you can tell be the length | 18:58 |
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| nkinder | ayoung: the hash algo. mismatch would be solved if we do what gyee suggests though, right? | 18:58 |
| ayoung | ah...that might be as expected, dstanek but good to know....starting point for Juno cleanup | 18:58 |
| ayoung | nkinder, yep | 18:58 |
| nkinder | gyee: you could, though that's a bit hackish | 18:58 |
| bknudson | if middleware gets a token hash it validates against the server. | 18:58 |
| ayoung | nkinder, except that it would never fetch the revoc ation list | 18:58 |
| bknudson | I don't think it cares about the hash then? | 18:59 |
| ayoung | that is only done for PKI validation | 18:59 |
| dolphm | time's up! | 18:59 |
| bknudson | thanks! | 18:59 |
| gyee | nkinder, if we only have to hash string, that's best we can do :) | 18:59 |
| nkinder | thanks alL! | 18:59 |
| dolphm | ayoung: https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-api-site/+bug/1304606 | 18:59 |
| gyee | s/to/the/ | 18:59 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1304606 in openstack-api-site "Identity API v3 OS-PKI extension is undocumented" [High,Triaged] | 18:59 |
| dolphm | #endmeeting | 18:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 8 18:59:34 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-04-08-18.01.html | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-04-08-18.01.txt | 18:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-04-08-18.01.log.html | 18:59 |
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| fungi | infra folks here for talky-times? | 19:00 |
| clarkb | o/ | 19:00 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 19:00 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | mordred is here too, I think | 19:01 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:01 |
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| fungi | i call it quorum. can haz | 19:01 |
| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 8 19:01:17 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:01 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:01 |
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| fungi | to start out, clarkb and i are trying to get through the heartbleed impact and reset a lot of account creds, so keeping this short will be in our best interest | 19:02 |
| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
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| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-04-01-19.02.html | 19:02 |
| fungi | jeblair delete puppet-dashboard.o.o server and dns | 19:02 |
| fungi | i believe that has happened | 19:02 |
| fungi | jeblair send revised repo rename list to tc | 19:03 |
| clarkb | DNS definitely happened | 19:03 |
| fungi | anybody know if that happened? | 19:03 |
| clarkb | fungi: yes, I believe he started a thread about it | 19:03 |
| * clarkb digs it up | 19:03 | |
| fungi | good enough | 19:03 |
| mordred | o/ | 19:03 |
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| clarkb | hrm maybe not. The thread I see is from before the last meeting to the infra list | 19:03 |
| nibalizer | o/ | 19:04 |
| fungi | better safe than sorry | 19:04 |
| fungi | #action jeblair send revised repo rename list to tc | 19:04 |
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| fungi | nibalizer propose change to lower puppetboard 'unresponsive' timeout to 30 mins | 19:04 |
| nibalizer | done, merged | 19:04 |
| fungi | that got proposed, merged | 19:04 |
| fungi | great | 19:04 |
| fungi | thanks nibalizer! | 19:05 |
| fungi | mordred make an abbreviated projects.yaml with only projects using storyboard as their primary tracker | 19:05 |
| fungi | still a thing? | 19:05 |
| krotscheck | o/ | 19:05 |
| fungi | mordred: if you're still around ^ (or krotscheck if you happen to know)? | 19:06 |
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| krotscheck | It hasn’t happened yet to my best ability. | 19:07 |
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| krotscheck | Sorry | 19:07 |
| fungi | krotscheck: thanks! good enough | 19:07 |
| krotscheck | to my best knowledge | 19:07 |
| fungi | #action mordred make an abbreviated projects.yaml with only projects using storyboard as their primary tracker | 19:07 |
| fungi | nibalizer write lp->storyboard migration script | 19:07 |
| nibalizer | not done | 19:07 |
| fungi | need any help with that? or should i be reviewing something already? | 19:07 |
| nibalizer | i haven't even gotten my dev storyboard up | 19:08 |
| fungi | okay, no rush | 19:08 |
| nibalizer | my first angular js app | 19:08 |
| fungi | #action nibalizer write lp->storyboard migration script | 19:08 |
| fungi | we just carry forward | 19:08 |
| nibalizer | ya sorry, if this is very pressing might not be for me, but i am making slow steayd prograess and having a fun time | 19:08 |
| fungi | that covers the action items from the last meeting | 19:08 |
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| fungi | #topic Dealing with puppet changes (jeblair) | 19:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Dealing with puppet changes (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:08 | |
| fungi | i think this is the thing where we want to make sure that any large changes don't get approved without someone (doesn't have to be the approver or even a core) watching puppetboard to make sure it worked | 19:09 |
| * mordred will do it - sorry - got busy | 19:10 | |
| fungi | in case it's not, i'll leave it on the agenda for next week and jeblair can discuss whatever he wanted to discuss | 19:10 |
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| fungi | anybody know whether that was indeed the case, or if we need to talk about anything with regard to it? | 19:10 |
| SergeyLukjanov | fungi, I think that I'm following this rule ;) | 19:10 |
| nibalizer | fungi: i dont know | 19:11 |
| fungi | SergeyLukjanov: i hope that i am, but i am also a very forgetful creature | 19:11 |
| fungi | okay, moving along... | 19:11 |
| fungi | #topic Using storyboard (jeblair) | 19:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Using storyboard (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:11 | |
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| nibalizer | I have to step out, sorry | 19:11 |
| fungi | i think we decided to start using storyboard for some smaller infra-related projects, but i don't think we've done so yet | 19:11 |
| * nibalizer will read scrollback | 19:11 | |
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| SergeyLukjanov | fungi, yup, that's a problem sometimes for me too ;) | 19:12 |
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| fungi | did anybody have any updates specific to this they wanted to impart? | 19:12 |
| SergeyLukjanov | fungi, we need to complete "make an abbreviated projects.yaml with only projects using storyboard as their primary tracker" first | 19:12 |
| SergeyLukjanov | IIRC | 19:12 |
| fungi | SergeyLukjanov: okay, good to know. prerequisite | 19:12 |
| fungi | then that's probably all we have for updates on that topic | 19:12 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | it sounds like this action item == this topc | 19:13 |
| fungi | agreed. i'll leave it on the agenda for next week | 19:13 |
| fungi | #topic Project renames | 19:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Project renames (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:13 | |
| krotscheck | There’s a patch to update task statuses as well, but I’m on that and a new patch should be up for review as soon as I get to an internet that opens gerrit ports. | 19:13 |
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| fungi | thanks krotscheck! | 19:13 |
| fungi | stackforge/barbican -> openstack/barbican needs to happen at some point... anybody know the timeline? | 19:13 |
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| fungi | is that one critical or just waiting for a convenient window? | 19:14 |
| clarkb | I haven't heard | 19:14 |
| clarkb | guessing convenient window | 19:14 |
| fungi | DinaBelova: any new word on the climate rename? was a new name chosen yet? | 19:14 |
| SergeyLukjanov | fungi, the same was done in several weeks after the incubation approved for sahara | 19:14 |
| DinaBelova | fungi, yep, it was chosen | 19:14 |
| DinaBelova | I | 19:14 |
| SergeyLukjanov | fungi, it's still not checked by foundation folks :( | 19:14 |
| fungi | and the winner is... | 19:14 |
| fungi | oh | 19:14 |
| DinaBelova | have contacted with foundation.. | 19:15 |
| fungi | okay, well, we'll pretend it's not chosen for now | 19:15 |
| fungi | until you get final approval | 19:15 |
| SergeyLukjanov | DinaBelova, the candidate is Blazar? | 19:15 |
| DinaBelova | the best candidate was blazar, will hope it'll be the winner | 19:15 |
| DinaBelova | yep | 19:15 |
| fungi | sounds good--i can't wait | 19:15 |
| DinaBelova | ;) | 19:15 |
| fungi | #topic Fedora gate support (ianw) | 19:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Fedora gate support (ianw) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:15 | |
| ianw | hi | 19:15 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | fungi, it'll be great to combine barbican, climate and attic changes | 19:16 |
| fungi | ianw: did you have some specific bits you wanted to talk about? i see clarkb and mordred added a couple sub-topics for it | 19:16 |
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| fungi | SergeyLukjanov: agreed | 19:16 |
| ianw | i added those on their behalf after a discussion on friday | 19:16 |
| clarkb | fungi: basically is it ok for us to ignore hpcloud 1.0 for fedora testing | 19:16 |
| clarkb | fungi: we cannot add our own images to hpcloud 1.0 and we need to build fedora images | 19:16 |
| clarkb | because no one has up to date fedora images for us | 19:16 |
| clarkb | so mostly looking for some consensus on what cross cloud compat is required for us to take on new testing | 19:17 |
| SergeyLukjanov | re attic, I don't see ay responses to the jeblair's follow up in tc ml - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2014-April/000608.html | 19:17 |
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| fungi | i'm also a little fuzzy on what testing we would shift to fedora nodes, to avoid exploding the test matrix and quota burn unnecessarily | 19:17 |
| clarkb | fungi: ya, mordred suggested something like the postgres test, but I think it could be any of the more "fringe" tets | 19:18 |
| SergeyLukjanov | good question re test matrix... | 19:19 |
| ttx | o/ | 19:19 |
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| fungi | okay, so the thought is that we could potentially start testing on fedora without exploding our node count and without effectively losing any existing test coverage | 19:19 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, evening | 19:19 |
| fungi | however, there are also concerns around being able to switch from fedora20-fedora21 (for example) within minimal effort in the time between when one reaches end of support and the other is available for use | 19:20 |
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| clarkb | fungi: right, so my comment about that was we would need to have dib working then the people wanting to test on fedora would be responsible for updating dib | 19:21 |
| clarkb | fungi: if they don't we switch $test to ubuntults | 19:21 |
| fungi | and also there was the suggestion that we would consider dropping the requirement that we keep testing stable branches of openstack on the versions of fedora they were tested on at release time (which possibly means not supporting testing stable releases on fedora at some point in the cycle) | 19:22 |
| fungi | gah, lag | 19:22 |
| clarkb | correct | 19:22 |
| clarkb | I think the fedora folks are ok with that because that version of fedora would not be supported either | 19:22 |
| clarkb | so testing on it isn't a big win | 19:22 |
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| mordred | ++ | 19:22 |
| fungi | mainly because backporting bug fixes and reqs changes to stable so as to work on newer fedora is probably out of scope | 19:22 |
| clarkb | which makes this a concern on our side. eg are we worried about losing coverage of our stable branches | 19:22 |
| clarkb | fungi: exactly | 19:23 |
| fungi | and the work required to switch, say, postgres+qpid from fedora to trusty when the time comes | 19:23 |
| clarkb | fungi: we wouldn't switch | 19:23 |
| clarkb | we would just drop the test | 19:23 |
| clarkb | which is why we would make it a more fringe tes | 19:24 |
| fungi | that feels like stable regressions waiting to happen | 19:24 |
| clarkb | at least that is what I would argue for | 19:24 |
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| clarkb | fungi: I agree, but they already happen in ways we can't keep up with | 19:24 |
| fungi | that is true | 19:24 |
| clarkb | fungi: so this doesn't really make the current situation better or worse | 19:24 |
| ianw | what if fedora tests ran on a separate cloud? could that work | 19:24 |
| ianw | and have them as a separate test, so they can be dropped per the concerns above | 19:25 |
| clarkb | ianw: no, anything in the gate needs multiple clouds | 19:25 |
| ianw | ok | 19:25 |
| fungi | mainly so that a cloud provider outage doesn't block our ability to test and merge changes | 19:25 |
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| ianw | what about only running a separate fedora job for certain projects ... mainly changes to devstack. there's only a few of them per-day | 19:26 |
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| clarkb | ianw: that should be doable. Similar to how tripleo testing happens | 19:27 |
| fungi | another alternative might be periodic bitrot jobs, though those have a tendency to bitrot, as irony would have it | 19:27 |
| ianw | starting with that job, keeping it separate seems low risk | 19:28 |
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| clarkb | ianw: so maybe we start there and avoid most of these layer 8 problems. Prove that it works then make it gating | 19:28 |
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| fungi | it seems like it might be worth investigating in that direction with more of a poc | 19:29 |
| clarkb | ianw: should help the decision making around gating too especially if we can point at reliable test | 19:29 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:29 |
| ianw | yeah, exactly | 19:29 |
| fungi | maybe the existing fedora testing pleia2 and others have been doing have us pretty close to what we would need for that already? | 19:29 |
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| ianw | this is what i've been doing with the redhatci | 19:30 |
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| ianw | see -> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86107/ for a comment example | 19:30 |
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| fungi | excellent. i agree that if there's enough community support and donated resources to keep it running, and it's all free software, there's no good reason to turn down the additional qa we get from it | 19:31 |
| ianw | fedora has been quite stable with devstack changes, the job shouldn't be too much trouble | 19:31 |
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| fungi | we just need to make sure our stability needs are met, and that we don't put ourselves in a bad position if that situation changes | 19:31 |
| ianw | but long term i'd like the gate testing the stable fedora, and redhatci testing the "next" version so that the transition is easy | 19:31 |
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| fungi | ianw: i think that's reasonable based on the current information we have | 19:32 |
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| fungi | any other opinions/input? next steps? | 19:33 |
| clarkb | nope I htink that is a good start | 19:33 |
| clarkb | will give us a lot more data to work with | 19:33 |
| fungi | okay, so basically we'll see what transpires and reevaluate based on additional data | 19:34 |
| fungi | and in the meantime, acknowledge that it looks useful and promising | 19:34 |
| fungi | okay, enough of that for today | 19:35 |
| fungi | #topic public service announcements | 19:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "public service announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:35 | |
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| fungi | we spent a good chunk of yesterday dealing with security updates | 19:35 |
| fungi | #link http://heartbleed.com/ | 19:35 |
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| fungi | anybody who reads bill's pundit's random computer blog probably knows about that, so no need to elaborate now | 19:36 |
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| clarkb | but plan on it severely impacting infras ability ot get normal work done for a bit | 19:37 |
| fungi | still working on regenerating keys, credentials, passwords and so on in the wake of the security fixes getting applied yesterday, just to have an extra security assurance in case anyone did actually manage to leech sensitive data out of any servers | 19:37 |
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| fungi | and yes, we're notably absent from getting other things done, so sorry about that | 19:37 |
| clarkb | yup, some of these changes may have user facing impact as well. | 19:37 |
| clarkb | however we will announce those changes more formally if/when they happen | 19:38 |
| fungi | correct. there will likely be further disruption with service restarts for new account auth data and such | 19:38 |
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| fungi | #topic Open discussion | 19:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:39 | |
| fungi | just a reminder, i'm gone all next week and the week after, and won't be around in irc or reading e-mail | 19:39 |
| clarkb | have fun! | 19:39 |
| fungi | jeblair is busy this week at pycon (mordred: are you there/going too?) | 19:40 |
| SergeyLukjanov | fungi, have fun!! | 19:40 |
| clarkb | I will be out monday morning until my eyeball can read text again (I get a second round of eye dilation) | 19:40 |
| rockyg | Hi. I'm with Huawei and we're exploring providing a nodepool to OpenStack, but I need a point of contact to get the prereq's figured out. | 19:40 |
| clarkb | rockyg: jeblair (who is flying to pycon right now) is the person to contact | 19:40 |
| clarkb | rockyg: you can ping him on irc and or send him email | 19:40 |
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| rockyg | Great! will do. Any idea on how many machines to start? | 19:40 |
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| phschwartz | I would like to propose for next week to start a small discussion point with infra in the meeting about the proposed Vinz review system. | 19:41 |
| clarkb | rockyg: I'm not sure if there is a lower bound but the flavor size we look at is ~4core 8GB nodes | 19:41 |
| fungi | rockyg: i think we've been targeting a minimum quota sufficient to run 100 instances with 4 or 8 cores (depending on core speed) and 8gb ram each | 19:41 |
| clarkb | phschwartz: can you update the agenda with that? I will get you a link | 19:41 |
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| phschwartz | clarkb: will do | 19:42 |
| rockyg | I'll email jeblair. That way he can respond on his timeline. The size is great info. Thanks, again. | 19:42 |
| clarkb | phschwartz: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting | 19:42 |
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| fungi | okay, i think that's it for this week | 19:43 |
| fungi | you all get 15 minutes back ;) | 19:43 |
| fungi | thanks everybody! | 19:44 |
| fungi | #endmeeting | 19:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:44 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 8 19:44:18 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:44 |
| clarkb | thank you! | 19:44 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-04-08-19.01.html | 19:44 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-04-08-19.01.txt | 19:44 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-04-08-19.01.log.html | 19:44 |
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| marroqug | . | 19:54 |
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| ttx | o/ | 19:59 |
| ttx | who is around for the TC meeting ? | 19:59 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:00 |
| hub_cap | heyo | 20:00 |
| jd__ | o/ | 20:00 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:00 |
| devananda | o/ | 20:00 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | markmc, annegentle, mikal, mordred, jgriffith, vishy, markmcclain, jeblair, lifeless : around ? | 20:00 |
| markmc | hey | 20:00 |
| EEvans | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | jeblair is probably on a plane | 20:00 |
| mikal | Hi | 20:00 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:00 |
| eglynn | o/ | 20:00 |
| SlickNik | hello there | 20:01 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | OK we are 7 so we have quorum | 20:01 |
| lifeless | ttx: mostly | 20:01 |
| ttx | 8 | 20:01 |
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| ttx | 8.9 | 20:01 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | jd__, EEvans, hub_cap: does any of you have constraints and wants to go first ? | 20:01 |
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| jd__ | I'm good | 20:02 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 8 20:02:04 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:02 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:02 |
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| hub_cap | im fine w/ it too ttx | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
| hub_cap | im here for the full hr | 20:02 |
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| ttx | OK, let's do it in the agenda order then | 20:03 |
| ttx | #topic Integrated projects and new requirements: Gap analysis for Ceilometer | 20:03 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Integrated projects and new requirements: Gap analysis for Ceilometer (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| ttx | jd__: o/ | 20:03 |
| ttx | So the goal of this is... | 20:03 |
| ttx | since we formalized and increased the level of what's required for graduation over the last cycle | 20:04 |
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| ttx | it's fair taht we look back at already-accepetd projects and make sure they comply | 20:04 |
| jd__ | eglynn and I wrote something on https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ceilometer-integrated-requirements | 20:04 |
| ttx | We did a number of those already (nova, neutron, cinder, keystone...) | 20:04 |
| jd__ | which kind responds to most questions, we hope | 20:04 |
| ttx | now on to ceilometer | 20:04 |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ceilometer-integrated-requirements | 20:04 |
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| zehicle | o/ | 20:05 |
| annegentle | jd__: sorry I can't help do some editing, hope that's ok | 20:06 |
| jd__ | hehe sure | 20:06 |
| ttx | Missing mission statement is a significant gap, because Ceilometer is really a project/program that could use one :) | 20:06 |
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| zehicle | o/ | 20:07 |
| russellb | luckily there's a quick fix on that one | 20:07 |
| eglynn | ttx: yep, I was hoping we'd crisp that scoping aspect up at summit in ATL | 20:07 |
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| russellb | seems QA and Docs sections have the other big gaps? | 20:07 |
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| sdague | yeh, I think the QA capture is about right. I'm definitely concerned on how exposed things are in the gate today as we have pretty minimal testing. | 20:08 |
| eglynn | russellb: +1 on QA, again planned to be a major focus for Juno | 20:08 |
| jd__ | yep | 20:08 |
| sdague | a related question, just because it's exposed in the gate, is performance with the sql driver. I feel like we're at an uncomfortable ground of it being in tree, but not working great | 20:09 |
| ttx | I think the contributor base is sane | 20:09 |
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| annegentle | I'd like to see monitoring section beefed up in the Ops Guide with ceilometer first-class citizen | 20:10 |
| jd__ | sdague: yep, I think it's something more precise we didn't capture in that etherpad because we focused on the big picture, but it's one of our concern | 20:10 |
| devananda | sdague: is the sql driver the default back end? | 20:10 |
| russellb | any plans for juno to pitch in on the docs side? | 20:10 |
| eglynn | sdague: yep, I wouldn't consider the sqla driver to be production-ready, yet the gate hinges on it | 20:10 |
| devananda | eglynn: what is the recommended back-end then? | 20:10 |
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| annegentle | and ideally that RDO quick start could go into the upstream docs | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | where do things stand with feature-completeness in the storage drivers? | 20:10 |
| eglynn | devananda: mongo if you're asking my personal opinion | 20:11 |
| devananda | hmm | 20:11 |
| sdague | eglynn: right, and I think we mostly did that on the ML, so I don't think we have to rehash it here. | 20:11 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: (modulo the potential licensing issues) | 20:11 |
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| vishy | i’m definitely sad about mongo as the only viable option | 20:11 |
| devananda | so then I should point out the same concern I had for Marconi w.r.t. non-apache-compatible back ends and lackign support for an apache-compatible one | 20:11 |
| vishy | there has been discussion work on cassandra/hbase which seems promising | 20:11 |
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| sdague | devananda: yeh, I think that's fair | 20:12 |
| jd__ | yeah, all of that is nothing new | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: is the sql driver feature-complete but non-performant? | 20:12 |
| ttx | #info Ceilometer gap: program mission statement | 20:12 |
| ttx | #info Ceilometer gap: Integration tests | 20:12 |
| markmc | devananda, we've had a long thread about that, if we want to re-hash let's schedule a TC discussion about it | 20:12 |
| ttx | #info Ceilometer gap: documentation | 20:12 |
| devananda | markmc: no need to rehash. I just wasn't aware of that issue w.r.t. ceilometer | 20:12 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: yes its much closer to full parity ... the major outstanding feature gap has been closed in Icehouse | 20:12 |
| sdague | I think the concern was that sql backend was a requirement for graduation, but seems to not be keeping up | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: ok, so closing that and then fixing the performance issues? I think some of the performance was hurt when the tables were normalized, but that's just a guess. | 20:13 |
| ttx | #info Identified concern: SQLA not recommended in production but still only backend tested in gate | 20:13 |
| devananda | markmc: i was only pointing it out since that seemed to be a preventatively-large gap for marconi's graduation | 20:13 |
| russellb | one of the post-graduation expectations we documented recently was integration with heat and horizon, if applicable. what integration exists there? | 20:13 |
| eglynn | dhellmann, sdague: yes the sqla performance gap will be targeted for Juno | 20:14 |
| sdague | eglynn: great | 20:14 |
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| eglynn | russellb: integrated with both, metering dashboard in havana, ceilo alarms for heta autoscaling | 20:14 |
| russellb | thanks | 20:14 |
| eglynn | s/heta/heat/ | 20:14 |
| annegentle | is there any integration possibility with sahara (hadoop backend) being considered? | 20:14 |
| jd__ | annegentle: not AFAIK | 20:15 |
| SergeyLukjanov | annegentle, sahara isn't installing managed db | 20:15 |
| sdague | what's the story relative to stacktach? at one point I thought that was largely merging into ceilometer, but it seems to have become it's own stackforge project | 20:15 |
| eglynn | annegentle: there was some discussion in HK about using hadoop for generating roll-ups | 20:15 |
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| annegentle | jd__: not under consideration or unpossible? | 20:16 |
| eglynn | annegentle: but came to naught for Icehouse | 20:16 |
| jd__ | branen: not under consideration :) | 20:16 |
| annegentle | eglynn: okay. I'm working through icehouse blueprints and saw hbase work so wondered | 20:16 |
| eglynn | sdague: re. stacktach, the RAX folks contributed persisting of notification payloads and an events API in Icehouse | 20:17 |
| ttx | any other gap we missed ? | 20:17 |
| markmc | I've heard of some discussion amongst operators that the TC should require projects to be seen to scale to production use before graduating | 20:17 |
| markmc | with ceilometer used as an example | 20:17 |
| eglynn | annegentle: there is habse storage driver already in existence | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: there's also a summit session to revisit the merge, iirc? | 20:17 |
| markmc | how would you guys have felt if we had required this? | 20:17 |
| markmc | how would you have gone about making that happen? | 20:17 |
| eglynn | annegentle: (and healthier than before as one of our new cores has taken it under her wing) | 20:17 |
| markmc | would it have helped you in the long run? | 20:17 |
| markmc | (perhaps off topic) | 20:17 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: yes that would be good | 20:18 |
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| jd__ | markmc: it probaly helped focusing on some stuff than others | 20:18 |
| eglynn | markmc: it would have helped definitely in my opinion | 20:18 |
| jd__ | +would have | 20:18 |
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| eglynn | markmc: ... and testing at scale is something we really need to attack | 20:18 |
| markmc | how would it have worked in practice, though? | 20:19 |
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| eglynn | markmc: ... but counter-factual history is not my strong suit ;) | 20:19 |
| markmc | do you feel you would have been able to reach out to operators and have them test at scale? | 20:19 |
| lifeless | markmc: what does scale to prpduction mean ? | 20:19 |
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| ttx | OK, if we are done with the gap analysis, i'd like to give one week (and the new PTL being elected) to come up with a plan to address those gaps asap (ideally in Juno) | 20:19 |
| markmc | lifeless, right | 20:19 |
| ttx | (the scale to prod is off-topic) | 20:19 |
| eglynn | markmc: ... I would like to have roped in some real operators to give us access to realistically sized gamma envs | 20:20 |
| ttx | and us discussing that plan | 20:20 |
| markmc | ok, sorry - was with a view to potential graduation requirements in the future | 20:20 |
| sdague | ttx: agreed, but a good atlanta topic | 20:20 |
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| ttx | sdague: I want to make sure those topics are taken into consideration in design summit scheduling | 20:20 |
| ttx | so rough plan in one week | 20:21 |
| ttx | early enough to translate into key design summit sessions | 20:21 |
| ttx | where details will be fleshed out | 20:21 |
| ttx | gap covering should be Juno's priority | 20:21 |
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| eglynn | ttx: rough plan of the summit session needed to address the gaps identified above? | 20:21 |
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| eglynn | *sessions | 20:21 |
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| ttx | eglynn: rough plan / set of blueprints you would implement in Juno to address those gaps | 20:22 |
| ttx | that will revolve mostly around tempest and SQLA perf | 20:22 |
| eglynn | ttx: understood | 20:22 |
| ttx | imho | 20:22 |
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| eglynn | ttx: makes sense, +1 | 20:22 |
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| annegentle | eglynn: jd__: and attend the cross-project docs session :) | 20:22 |
| ttx | #action Future ceilometer PTL to come up with rough gap covering Juno plan for next week meeting | 20:23 |
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| ttx | jd__: i'll let you communicate to gordon | 20:23 |
| ttx | the threee of you should be able to come up with something | 20:23 |
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| ttx | any other comment on that part ? A gap we would have missed ? | 20:23 |
| jd__ | sure | 20:23 |
| eglynn | ttx: yep, we can synch up with gordc tmrw | 20:23 |
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| annegentle | ttx: I think we covered it | 20:24 |
| ttx | ok then | 20:24 |
| ttx | #topic Bylaws subcommittee report: proposed changes to the OpenStack Bylaws | 20:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bylaws subcommittee report: proposed changes to the OpenStack Bylaws (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:24 | |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2014-April/000609.html | 20:24 |
| ttx | EEvans, zehicle: o/ | 20:25 |
| zehicle | o/ | 20:25 |
| ttx | The Bylaws subcommittee at teh Board of Directors has been working on propsoed changes to the bylwas that affect the sections about TC | 20:25 |
| EEvans | Mark is scheduled to present, but he's having difficulty logging in. | 20:25 |
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| ttx | the link above has links to bylaws diffs | 20:25 |
| ttx | there is a 15->18 diff and a 17->18 diff | 20:26 |
| ttx | 15 being current state, 18 proposed state | 20:26 |
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| ttx | 17 being the initial proposed changes that markmc sent us a few weeks ago | 20:26 |
| markmc | it's more than a little confusing to follow | 20:27 |
| annegentle | ttx: zehicle: EEvans: are there changes to other sections (that we're ignoring for now) -- is this diff parceled out just for the defcore changes? | 20:27 |
| markmc | github have a new prose diff thing, right? perhaps we should try that :) | 20:27 |
| ttx | EEvans, zehicle: I read it, the only thing I found confusing was the language in page 8 | 20:27 |
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| ttx | let me quote | 20:27 |
| EEvans | these are all of the proposed changes. But it's an early view ... still under discussion | 20:27 |
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| ttx | "After the OSP New Definition Date, the scope of the Core OpenStack Project which is an integrated release shall be determined as set forth in Section 4.13(c)(ii). " | 20:28 |
| annegentle | EEvans: ok thanks | 20:28 |
| ttx | "the Core OpenStack Project which is an integrated release" sounds very confusing to me | 20:28 |
| markmc | the additions to 4.13 (page 9) are pretty confusing too | 20:29 |
| ttx | Core is a subset of the projects we commonly release in an integrated fashion | 20:29 |
| mikal | I don't see anything obviously wrong, but these documents are very long. | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | ttx: that sentence sounds like it is missing some words | 20:29 |
| EEvans | should we rephrase this?? | 20:29 |
| markmc | ttx, I think these changes are redefining Core to mean Integrated | 20:29 |
| markmc | ttx, I *think( | 20:29 |
| markmc | EEvans, perhaps we should start by discussing what the goal is | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | EEvans: is that saying something about what portion of the overall project will be considered as core is going to be determined by section 4.....? | 20:29 |
| markmc | not clear to me any more | 20:29 |
| ttx | markmc: ah? | 20:29 |
| russellb | markmc: +1 | 20:30 |
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| ttx | EEvans: depends on what that sentence was trying to actually mean | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | markmc: I didn't read it that way at first, but I do see what you're saying | 20:30 |
| markmc | this: | 20:30 |
| markmc | "The Technical Committee shall propose a process or procedure to determine the scope of the Core OpenStack Project. The Board of Directors may propose modifications to such process or procedure but such modifications must be approved by the Technical Committee. After the Technical Committee has approved the final process or procedure for determining the scope of the Core OpenStack Project and the Board of Directors has approved suc | 20:30 |
| markmc | h process or procedure, the Board of Directors shall set the date on which such process or procedure becomes effective and the first such date shall be defined as the OSP New Definition Date. After the OSP New Definition Date, the Technical Committee may propose modifications to such process and procedure. The Board of Directors shall consider such modifications and may approve or disapprove them. If the Board of Directors approve | 20:30 |
| markmc | s such modifications, the modified process and procedure shall become the method for determining the scope of the Core OpenStack Project on the effective date set by the Board of Directors. The process or procedure shall be described in reasonable detail in the minutes of the Board of Directors which approved it. After such approval, the Secretary shall post such description to the Foundation’s website. " | 20:30 |
| markmc | (sorry) | 20:30 |
| markmc | sounds to me to be about the process for defining the contents of the integrated release | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I had a question about that section: | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | does the addition of the word “core” to section 4.13(c)(ii) change anything about adding non-core projects for incubation, or is that covered by the fact that we’re supposed to develop the process for adding core projects (which would include incubation)? | 20:31 |
| EEvans | Since Mark Radcliffe is leading this and is unable to log in, can we table this until the next meeting? | 20:31 |
| ttx | markmc: if Core = Integarted in that document, then we should just drop "Core" and just say "OpenStack project" | 20:31 |
| markmc | that it's a TC controlled thing, but the board has to approve the process | 20:31 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: the word "core" was just added to draft 18, I think | 20:31 |
| ttx | If Core <= Integrated, then that sentence needs to be rewritten | 20:31 |
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| markmc | ttx, I think that was what v17 did, but my concern was that gave the board more power over the contents of the integrated release than they have now | 20:31 |
| markmc | ttx, or v15, sorry | 20:32 |
| russellb | yes that is what it sounds like | 20:32 |
| zehicle | yes, this is confusing | 20:32 |
| annegentle | EEvans: that might work best, having Mark Radcliffe here to guide | 20:32 |
| zehicle | I am also having trouble tracking version items | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | someone should write out what we want in english, and then we can translate it to legaleze | 20:32 |
| ttx | EEvans: I think Mark said he could not be there next week, though | 20:32 |
| markmc | is Mark Radcliffe the only one who can summarize the goal of these amendments? | 20:32 |
| hub_cap | EEvans: he could log in via a web chat http://webchat.freenode.net/ | 20:32 |
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| zehicle | my understanding of the key issue is that there are some process changes that have the TC represent the community' | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | zehicle: that's my understanding of the intent, but that's not how I read the words that were written | 20:33 |
| ttx | here he is | 20:33 |
| zehicle | dhellmann, I agree withyou | 20:33 |
| ttx | MFR: welcome | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | so I think it's just a phrasing and language clarity issue | 20:33 |
| zehicle | I'm willing to circle w/ EEvans and Mark Radliffe to get translation | 20:33 |
| zehicle | I think that would be a good next step | 20:34 |
| annegentle | My concern was the wording of "The Technical Committee shall propose a process or procedure to determine the scope of the Core OpenStack Project." in 4.13 c ii | 20:34 |
| ttx | zehicle: yes, we need to understand the goal. At this point the TC has full control on what it blesses and works on | 20:34 |
| MFR | This is Mark Radcliffe, counsel for OpenStack Foundation. The changes are meant to keep the relationship between Board and TC the same but give both more flexbility | 20:34 |
| annegentle | due to proposal in progress with defcore | 20:34 |
| annegentle | MFR: welcome! | 20:35 |
| ttx | so TC can include anything in 'the integrated release' | 20:35 |
| markmc | MFR, could you summarize the goal of the changes? | 20:35 |
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| ttx | 'Core' used to be the subset of those integrated projects that we want to place trademark rules on | 20:35 |
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| ttx | Is the goal to mix the two concepts ? | 20:35 |
| markmc | MFR, not just the goal as it relates to the relationship between the board and TC | 20:35 |
| MFR | The goal of the changes is to implement the Defcore recommendation | 20:35 |
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| zehicle | MRF, I thought we were trying to get the process out of the bylaws and into the TC & Board management | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | MFR: I think we understand the goal, but the wording is causing some confusion | 20:36 |
| markmc | what is the Defcore recommendation? | 20:37 |
| MFR | The current system depends on specific modules being in the Core, we are proposing to allow the TC and Board to set up a process to do it rather than naming modules | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | so the bylaws won't have to change as we change that definition | 20:37 |
| ttx | MFR, zehicle: so "Core" and "integrated release" are still two separated concepts ? | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | (of the process or of core) | 20:37 |
| ttx | we were confused by ""After the OSP New Definition Date, the scope of the Core OpenStack Project which is an integrated release shall be determined as set forth in Section 4.13(c)(ii). "" | 20:37 |
| MFR | Yes core and integrated release are different | 20:38 |
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| ttx | I'm no native sepaker but 'which is an integrated release" in that sentence looks misplaced | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | ok, that sentence ttx quoted conflates them | 20:38 |
| ttx | speaker* | 20:38 |
| russellb | ttx: agreed | 20:38 |
| zehicle | perhaps we should not have the word "core" in the bylaws at all | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | I think "which" should be replaced with "that" there -- it's a common misuse of which | 20:38 |
| ttx | zehicle: well that would be even more confusing | 20:38 |
| zehicle | ttx, not if we actually define things clearly | 20:39 |
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| dhellmann | of course, with my rewording it makes 4.13(c)(ii) apply to the integrated release, when that section has core all over it | 20:39 |
| markmc | "the Technical Committee shall have the authority to determine the scope of the Core OpenStack Project subject to the procedures described below" | 20:39 |
| markmc | that's pretty weird too | 20:39 |
| zehicle | but I think the word "core" can be excellent - if we define | 20:39 |
| ttx | zehicle: I agree, but just removing the word 'core' won't be enough to define things clearly | 20:39 |
| markmc | our thinking previously was the board was responsible for the definition of "the Core OpenStack Project" | 20:39 |
| markmc | why change the bylaws to make it under the TC authority? | 20:40 |
| annegentle | markmc: right, that was my sense of it too, that it flipped | 20:40 |
| ttx | and the TC was responsible for the content of the intgerated openstack release | 20:40 |
| russellb | it's not clear in this that core is some subset of integrated | 20:41 |
| markmc | it only really makes much sense to me if we're redefining "Core OpenStack Project" to me "Integrated Release" | 20:41 |
| markmc | which apparently isn't the intent | 20:41 |
| zehicle | markmc, the DefCore is moving towards a test/capability defined definition | 20:41 |
| ttx | yes, I read it that way too. Core is still a subset of integrated but now it's also defined by TC | 20:41 |
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| dhellmann | is "integrated release" covered by section 4(b)? | 20:41 |
| ttx | dhellmann: integrated release doesn't appear in bylaws | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | sorry, 4.13(b) | 20:42 |
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| markmc | zehicle, ... test/capability defined definition of "Core OpenStack Project", right ? | 20:42 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: it's a community thing, not a foundation thing | 20:42 |
| markmc | zehicle, why would that definition be under the authority of the TC? | 20:42 |
| ttx | dhellmann: it's the stuff that our community works on and that the TC (the representation of those contributors) blasses | 20:42 |
| ttx | blesses | 20:42 |
| zehicle | markmc, it's not according to the DefCore process | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | yes, but 4.13(b) says we have the "authority to determine the scope of the OpenStack Project" without qualification for core or not, so would that cover our ability to classify things as integrated or not? | 20:42 |
| annegentle | the use of "the Core OpenStack Project" uses Core as a collection and Project as a collection. That's not the way we currently think/talk about core or projects. Are the definitions changing then? | 20:42 |
| zehicle | so I think that there's something to work out | 20:42 |
| ttx | dhellmann: that would drag it into the bylwas | 20:43 |
| zehicle | but Designated Sections are TC domain and that could also be covered by the language | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | ttx: because maybe the bylaws don't need to care about integrated? | 20:43 |
| markmc | dhellmann, integrated release is behind "The management of the technical matters relating to the OpenStack Project shall be managed by the Technical Committee" | 20:43 |
| ttx | dhellmann: they don't need to care about integrated projects, yes | 20:43 |
| markmc | dhellmann, that's an earlier version of 4.13(b) | 20:43 |
| MFR | The existing bylaws define Core and the additios and deletions are proposed by TC and decided by Board. The changes were meant to let TC and Board adopt other procedures such as testing | 20:43 |
| markmc | dhellmann, v17 turns it into "the scope of the Core OpenStack Project" | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | ok, so what I'm trying to say is that if other sections of the bylaws cover the integrated release, and the new 4.13(c) is only about core, does that change the way we read it? | 20:43 |
| ttx | MFR: ok | 20:44 |
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| ttx | So the *intent* is to move the process for determining Core (in current bylaws, proposed by TC and approved by BoD), to an outside process proposed by the TC | 20:45 |
| ttx | so that gives us flexibility | 20:45 |
| MFR | Yes | 20:45 |
| zehicle | ttx, yes. | 20:45 |
| ttx | IF that's the intent and we don't touch the ability for the TC to decide what goes in openstack releases (independent of "core" concept), then I'm good | 20:45 |
| zehicle | ttx, my understanding was the the TC would proxy for community if the process needs to be changed | 20:45 |
| MFR | Yes | 20:46 |
| ttx | I just find some sentences (like the one I quoted) a bit confusing | 20:46 |
| ttx | I think the "which is an integrated release" should just be removed | 20:46 |
| markmc | I find this proposed role for the TC surprising | 20:46 |
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| zehicle | I think that key is that the bylaws would focus on the process not the result | 20:46 |
| markmc | i.e. to be the one that proposes any modifications to the Core definition process | 20:47 |
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| russellb | markmc: would expect the process to be driven by the board, right? | 20:47 |
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| markmc | russellb, as it is now, yes | 20:47 |
| ttx | markmc: arguably we did have that role in the original bylaws | 20:47 |
| russellb | right.. | 20:47 |
| annegentle | markmc: I was also surprised | 20:47 |
| zehicle | markmc, I believe it was the approach modications, not propose | 20:47 |
| russellb | had the role of proposing additions/removals | 20:47 |
| russellb | not defining the process used | 20:47 |
| russellb | IIUC | 20:47 |
| MFR | That is correct. We can remove "an integtrated release" if it is causing confuson | 20:47 |
| zehicle | not approach, approve | 20:48 |
| annegentle | russellb: the proposal of the process was not TC | 20:48 |
| ttx | markmc: the original bylaws said we were proposing projects and the BoD approved them. Now we are proposing the process to select them | 20:48 |
| russellb | ttx: if that's the goal, why isn't the TC driving defcore? | 20:48 |
| annegentle | ttx: ohh. okay that's helpful. Except we're not proposing the process in reality | 20:48 |
| * russellb confused | 20:48 | |
| MFR | Yes, you are proposing the process | 20:48 |
| annegentle | MFR: my perception is defcore is the process proposal | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | yeah, defcore is a board subcommittee, isn't it? | 20:49 |
| ttx | so maybe this should be rephrased | 20:49 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: yes | 20:49 |
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| ttx | Defcore propsoes and the TC approves | 20:49 |
| ttx | proposes* | 20:49 |
| MFR | Defcore is a Board committee | 20:49 |
| ttx | at least that would match what happens | 20:49 |
| MFR | Defcore could become the process but we still need the bylaws change to give it that role | 20:50 |
| zehicle | MRF, so the board owns the process and the TC is the watchdog? | 20:50 |
| ttx | MFR: the bylwas change could state that the BoD (or one of its subcommittee) proposes a process, and that the TC approves it. | 20:50 |
| ttx | rather than the other way around | 20:50 |
| ttx | because that's what's actually happening | 20:51 |
| russellb | yes, i think that would be fine | 20:51 |
| ttx | zehicle drives the process proposal, and we comment/approve it | 20:51 |
| markmc | I'm not sure we have an approval role even now | 20:51 |
| MFR | No, TC proposes the process and both TC and Board agree on it. The Board has the ultimate responsibility under DE law for these matters | 20:51 |
| dhellmann | russellb: do you not want the TC to set up the process? | 20:51 |
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| russellb | dhellmann: that's not what has been happening the last year | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | russellb: sure, but we're talking about the future | 20:52 |
| ttx | MFR: or defcore proposes, TC validates and BoD approves. | 20:52 |
| ttx | I think that's what's happening ^ | 20:52 |
| russellb | what does "TC validates" mean | 20:52 |
| ttx | approves first ? | 20:53 |
| annegentle | ttx: yes. defcore may or may not be made up of only board members though, it's a subcommittee | 20:53 |
| MFR | We could set it up that way if you want | 20:53 |
| russellb | ttx: ok, just trying to clarify ... could have also meant "provides input that may or may not be taken into account" | 20:53 |
| markmc | if we replaced "defined core" with "defined our trademark requirements" | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | MFR: these bylaws changes describe something other than what we perceive current reality to be, so we're trying to understand the difference | 20:53 |
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| markmc | then I think it would be pretty clear it's much more a board thing than a TC thing | 20:54 |
| markmc | the TC can help if asked, maybe | 20:54 |
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| markmc | but approval role ... doesn't really make sense to me | 20:54 |
| ttx | "technical validation" is what we've been doing on this so far | 20:54 |
| russellb | agree with that | 20:54 |
| ttx | shouting when it started not making sense with the reality on the ground | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | MFR: who wrote these bylaw changes? you, or several board members? | 20:55 |
| ttx | the question is... do we need to do more ? | 20:55 |
| markmc | ttx, anyone in the community is welcome to do that | 20:55 |
| ttx | I think the bylaws change were written in a way that didn't sound like the TC was robbed of its influence of core | 20:55 |
| ttx | but I don't think we actually care if we lose our influence on core | 20:55 |
| markmc | I'd be more worried with us gaining a responsibility which didn't make sense for us | 20:56 |
| ttx | since we specifically arranges "integrated release" separated from "core" to let the Board own "core" | 20:56 |
| markmc | (assuming it doesn't make sense for us) | 20:56 |
| ttx | arranged* | 20:56 |
| annegentle | markmc: right that's my memory of the original goal as well | 20:56 |
| dhellmann | I liked the split we had, where we specified core code and the board specified core features. | 20:56 |
| russellb | yep, i liked the core vs integrated separation we did a long time ago. i think the intent was to separate ourselves from the core bit for the most part | 20:56 |
| MFR | I wrote the changes. We are trying to preserve the role of TC but make the process for deterimining Core more fliexbile because we are moving away from Core defined by modules | 20:56 |
| russellb | i think it's possible we don't want the responsibility maintained here :) | 20:57 |
| dhellmann | MFR: ok, thanks for clarifying | 20:57 |
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| ttx | zehicle, EEvans, MFR: so if "core" is defined as a subset of the TC-defined "integrated release", then you can remove TC from determining "core" completely | 20:57 |
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| russellb | i want full control over the integrated release, but just participate in an advisory/consulting role on the core part | 20:57 |
| russellb | ttx: +1 | 20:57 |
| annegentle | MFR: zehicle: are "modules" defined as our current idea of "programs"? | 20:57 |
| ttx | Only 3 min left, we need to cover a few more points quickly | 20:57 |
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| markmc | ttx, fair point ... except would need to define "integrated release" in the bylaws :) | 20:58 |
| zehicle | annegentle, the proposal I'd been working around was more about major functional areas | 20:58 |
| russellb | markmc: may be worthwhile to do that | 20:58 |
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| dhellmann | russellb: ugh | 20:58 |
| ttx | markmc: "a list the TC gives out" ? | 20:58 |
| markmc | russellb, indeed, may well be | 20:58 |
| dhellmann | it's hard enough to change the graduation guidelines now :-) | 20:58 |
| ttx | ok, no time left | 20:58 |
| MFR | The intent is not to reduce the authority of the TC. Modules in Core were defined by name in the orignal bylaws | 20:59 |
| markmc | ttx, "here's what you can choose from" ? :) | 20:59 |
| annegentle | also want to make sure everyone knows that Appendix 8 - Trademark Policy - is eliminated in v15 | 20:59 |
| ttx | we'll circle back on emails and maybe have a follow-up at a next meeting | 20:59 |
| zehicle | I'll take an action item to work w/ EEvans and MFR on a translation and clarify the issues raised | 20:59 |
| annegentle | so to me I interpret that deletion as "there will be just one way to use the mark" | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: I hadn't noticed that, does something replace it? | 20:59 |
| annegentle | so that might be helpful to clarify for us as well | 20:59 |
| ttx | #topic Minor governance changes | 20:59 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Minor governance changes (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:59 | |
| ttx | * Resolution blessing designated sections guidelines (https://review.openstack.org/84712) | 21:00 |
| ttx | * Add neutron-specs to the Networking program. (https://review.openstack.org/84489) | 21:00 |
| annegentle | no "built for OpenStack" ? | 21:00 |
| MFR | The trademark policy will exist but right now we have "locked it down" and we are discovering that we need more flexibility | 21:00 |
| ttx | * Add the Kite key distribution service to programs.yaml (https://review.openstack.org/84811) | 21:00 |
| ttx | * Add mission statement to Cinder (https://review.openstack.org/84528) | 21:00 |
| zehicle | annegentle, we'll come back to that again - it was NOT my understanding except that we will have clearer commercial uses | 21:00 |
| ttx | Those 4 will all be approved if they reach 7 YES | 21:00 |
| annegentle | zehicle: okay | 21:00 |
| russellb | cross project summit proposals due in a couple days. i'll follow up via email to organize a subset of the TC to put a proposed set of sessions together, and we'll bring it back to the full group for blessing | 21:00 |
| ttx | * Adds integrated release names to programs.yaml (https://review.openstack.org/81859) | 21:00 |
| ttx | same here, but may need a few more iterations | 21:00 |
| markmc | annegentle, there was an email from lauren to the marketing list about a consolidation of trademark programs | 21:01 |
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| ttx | ok, time is up | 21:01 |
| markmc | annegentle, separate from defcore | 21:01 |
| annegentle | ttx: on that one, what did you think about not adding integrated-release: until it happens? | 21:01 |
| annegentle | markmc: okay to me the trademark use is the reason to define core? | 21:01 |
| annegentle | markmc: but I might be conflating | 21:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 8 21:01:40 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-04-08-20.02.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-04-08-20.02.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-04-08-20.02.log.html | 21:01 |
| hub_cap | see ya next wk ttx :) | 21:01 |
| markmc | annegentle, yes, that's the purpose of defcore | 21:01 |
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| ttx | hub_cap: sorry we ran very long | 21:02 |
| hub_cap | npnp | 21:02 |
| annegentle | sorry hub_cap! | 21:02 |
| markmc | annegentle, this is about the trademark programs, though - it's implied those programs will use the outcome of defcore | 21:02 |
| annegentle | markmc: ok got it | 21:02 |
| hub_cap | no worries, i got another wk to prepare annegentle ttx ;) shhhhh | 21:02 |
| ttx | that was more useful than I thought | 21:02 |
| annegentle | hub_cap: go get some install docs done! :) | 21:02 |
| ttx | next meeting | 21:02 |
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| ttx | dhellmann, dolphm, notmyname, jd__, markwash, jgriffith, russellb, stevebaker, david-lyle, markmcclain, hub_cap: around ? | 21:02 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 21:02 |
| russellb | o/ | 21:02 |
| dolphm | o/ | 21:02 |
| jd__ | o/ | 21:02 |
| ttx | beloved icehouse PTLs | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:02 |
| annegentle | ttx: that's a little much :) | 21:03 |
| hub_cap | heh soon to be former PTLs ;) | 21:03 |
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| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 8 21:03:10 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:03 |
| * russellb sheds a tear | 21:03 | |
| * dhellmann sniffs | 21:03 | |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:03 |
| * markwash couldn't get past the first chapter of Beloved | 21:03 | |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:03 |
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| dhellmann | markwash: LOL | 21:03 |
| ttx | #topic Current RC status | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Current RC status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:03 | |
| hub_cap | markwash: i couldnt get past the title | 21:03 |
| ttx | #info RC1 done, no RC2 expected at this point: Swift, Trove | 21:03 |
| ttx | #info RC2 done, no RC3 expected at this point: Keystone, Cinder, Ceilometer, Horizon | 21:03 |
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| ttx | #info RC2 in progress: Glance, Nova, Neutron, Heat | 21:04 |
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| annegentle | markmc: ghosts | 21:04 |
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| stevebaker | \o | 21:04 |
| ttx | We hope to have Nova and Neutron tomorrow, heat and Glance Thursday | 21:04 |
| annegentle | er markwash :) | 21:04 |
| ttx | It shall take a pretty significant regression or unforeseen fuckup to do a RC3 | 21:04 |
| ttx | but then, there always was | 21:04 |
| annegentle | ttx: snort | 21:04 |
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| * ttx puts $1 in the swear box | 21:05 | |
| ttx | Questions on the RC process ? | 21:05 |
| ttx | FWIW the icehouse PTLs are not disappearing on Friday with election results | 21:06 |
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| russellb | go until final icehouse release yes? | 21:06 |
| * hub_cap suspects ttx's swear box is quite full | 21:06 | |
| ttx | They are the icehouse cycle PTLs, so they finish the work :P | 21:06 |
| annegentle | ttx: is every project open for juno? | 21:06 |
| ttx | annegentle: yes | 21:06 |
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| dolphm | and new PTL's effectively take over on master? | 21:07 |
| dolphm | (Friday) | 21:07 |
| ttx | dolphm: in theory yes | 21:07 |
| dolphm | or at least, free to transition | 21:07 |
| annegentle | #info Didn't really see many doc catchups in the feature freeze period | 21:07 |
| annegentle | Seems like release notes are being worked | 21:08 |
| hub_cap | ttx can u re-link the release notes page? | 21:08 |
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| * hub_cap needs to get started w em | 21:08 | |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Icehouse | 21:08 |
| markmcclain | annegentle: did you see the email I sent you? | 21:08 |
| ttx | yes release notes seem to come up nicely | 21:09 |
| ttx | anything else on that topic ? | 21:09 |
| ttx | guess not | 21:10 |
| hub_cap | thx ttx | 21:10 |
| ttx | #topic Security audit of projects/releases | 21:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Security audit of projects/releases (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:10 | |
| ttx | nkinder: o/ | 21:10 |
| nkinder | Hi all. | 21:10 |
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| * markwash looks nervous | 21:10 | |
| ttx | today of all days | 21:10 |
| russellb | ttx: ha | 21:10 |
| nkinder | I'm trying to get an effort going around gathering security related info for each project/release | 21:10 |
| russellb | here to disclose openstackbleed? | 21:10 |
| annegentle | markmcclain: sorry I need more context? I don't see one | 21:11 |
| nkinder | this provides some background for later reading - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-April/032046.html | 21:11 |
| ttx | #link Security audit of projects/releases | 21:11 |
| ttx | arh | 21:11 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-April/032046.html | 21:11 |
| nkinder | Basically, I'd like to capture commonly asked security info such as what crypto algorithms are used, what crypto implementations, and how sensitive data is handled. | 21:12 |
| russellb | sounds like a good idea | 21:12 |
| nkinder | Here is an example I put together for Keystone - https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Security/Icehouse/Keystone | 21:12 |
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| ttx | nkinder: so the challenge is to keep it current, I think | 21:12 |
| nkinder | The idea is that each project dev team would be responsible for keeping it up to date. | 21:12 |
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| ttx | gathering it shall not be too hard, keeping up to date.. ;hmm | 21:12 |
| nkinder | maintenance is definitely the big concern | 21:12 |
| dolphm | ttx: ++ i'd love to have this in-tree, and kept up to date with the code | 21:12 |
| devananda | nkinder: is there substantial interest in having this also for incubated projects (eg ironic)? | 21:12 |
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| nkinder | dolphm and I discussed it on the keystone meeting today, and there were some good ideas | 21:13 |
| markwash | nkinder: not sure if this is actually on topic, but how can we promote better code / review practices for common security issues? I know as a reviewer I've missed some pretty obvious security problems just because I wasn't thinking like a security guy | 21:13 |
| ttx | nkinder: if you have it in tree at least you can make sure one is not updated without the other | 21:13 |
| ttx | could be some standard file | 21:13 |
| annegentle | nkinder: so I did a brief analysis on the current ossn base, and always more than one project is affected due to the actual use cases | 21:13 |
| dolphm | devananda: i think it will be expected of every project once a few have it | 21:13 |
| nkinder | We're thinking keeping it in-tree would allow it to be kept up to date along with code changes | 21:13 |
| hub_cap | markwash: s/like a security guy// ? | 21:13 |
| dolphm | devananda: (expected by deployers, etc) | 21:13 |
| russellb | markwash: if you tag a commit message with SecurityImpact, a message will go to the security list for the patch ... if you realize it has potential security impact, though | 21:13 |
| devananda | dolphm: seems like a fair assumption, yea | 21:14 |
| hub_cap | russellb: thx for the tip, i didnt know that | 21:14 |
| markwash | hub_cap: sure | 21:14 |
| annegentle | nkinder: so I'm not sure in-tree would work well from a deployer standpoint | 21:14 |
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| nkinder | annegentle: no, it would only work best for developers in-tree. | 21:14 |
| ttx | in-tree would help, but it's no magic bullet. The issue is that oftentimes people touch things they don't know has security implications | 21:14 |
| ttx | and sometimes it flies through review | 21:14 |
| russellb | this sounds like docs that we should just start encouraging, and eventually expecting from every project | 21:14 |
| annegentle | nkinder: right but I don't think we should serve devs easy livin' :) | 21:14 |
| nkinder | It would need to be transformed and published somewhere for deployers. | 21:15 |
| comstud | markwash: solution: always think like a 'security guy' | 21:15 |
| ttx | years of looking at CVE patches make me a little pessimistic about human nature | 21:15 |
| annegentle | nkinder: sure, but again, individual projects need to think more cross-project | 21:15 |
| nkinder | ttx: that is definitely a concern as well, and diligence by core members would be needed | 21:15 |
| annegentle | nkinder: and in-tree doesn't encourage that | 21:15 |
| markwash | comstud: lol I suppose I'm trying? | 21:15 |
| russellb | a wiki page seems like the most reasonable place to doucment this stuff ... Nova/SecurityInfo, and expect it to be updated like we have Nova/HypervisorSupportMatrix | 21:15 |
| comstud | try harder! | 21:15 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: +1 to thinking cross-project :-) | 21:15 |
| nkinder | annegentle: agreed. At least for the used crypto sorts of items, they are isolated to individual projects. It's the interaction between projects around sensitive data that requires more cross-project thinking. | 21:16 |
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| notmyname | nkinder: indeed | 21:17 |
| ttx | nkinder: I think wiki + project resposnsibility to keep up to date + external audits pointing out gaps, could work | 21:17 |
| nkinder | Part of doing this at an individual project level is also to identify overlap and inconsistencies between projects, which can be used to push towards further cross-project coordination. | 21:17 |
| annegentle | nkinder: yes we haven't really considered the crypto case til now but then would barbican be the responsible party (similar to keystone's commonality)? Or maybe I'm thinking wrongly? | 21:18 |
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| dolphm | would we want to have one page for all of Openstack then? | 21:18 |
| markmcclain | ttx: was thinking that we might consider making this part of PTL duties to ensure that doc is updated for each milestone | 21:18 |
| nkinder | annegentle: documenting crypto for barbican will absolutely be important (and I want to reach out to them early) | 21:18 |
| dhellmann | dolphm: one page per release would make sense | 21:18 |
| nkinder | markmcclain: that was my hope too | 21:18 |
| ttx | markmcclain: yes, those slackers could use a bit more responsibilities :) | 21:18 |
| russellb | ttx: +1 | 21:18 |
| dolphm | dhellmann: this *should* be mostly static | 21:18 |
| russellb | to the earlier comment, not slackers comment | 21:19 |
| dolphm | dhellmann: it shouldn't change dramatically per release | 21:19 |
| dhellmann | dolphm: you've seen all the new projects, right? :-) | 21:19 |
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| dolphm | it just needs to be maintained regularly | 21:19 |
| nkinder | russellb: easy for you to say, you're stepping down! :P | 21:19 |
| annegentle | heh | 21:19 |
| russellb | i say it with the understanding of PTL responsibilities | 21:19 |
| russellb | and what i think is reasonable | 21:19 |
| russellb | for Nova, it wouldn't get done alone | 21:19 |
| russellb | it's "ensure it gets done" | 21:19 |
| dhellmann | delegate | 21:19 |
| ttx | nkinder: so i would engage with projects to encourage them to provide that info based on the model you provided, and ask them to keep current. the OSSG should run regular audits to check that the info is maintained up to date | 21:19 |
| nkinder | ttx: Great, that is my plan. I wanted to float it by the PTLs here to gauge interest first. It seems that the interest is there, so now it's working out the details. | 21:20 |
| russellb | +1! | 21:20 |
| russellb | nkinder: totally see the value in this | 21:20 |
| dhellmann | +1 | 21:20 |
| ttx | nkinder: and thx a lot for all the work you've been doing on this and the OSSNs | 21:20 |
| nkinder | I'd like to start with a few projects. Keystone is already started, so maybe 2-3 more to pilot this? | 21:21 |
| annegentle | nkinder: yes thanks for the efforts! | 21:21 |
| nkinder | Sure. Happy to help! | 21:21 |
| markmcclain | nkinder: I'd be happy to pilot | 21:21 |
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| nkinder | markmcclain: ok, great! Any others? | 21:21 |
| russellb | ask next week with new PTLs here :) | 21:22 |
| ttx | yeah, should be easier | 21:22 |
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| nkinder | good point | 21:22 |
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| ttx | ok, next topic | 21:22 |
| ttx | #topic Red Flags | 21:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Red Flags (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:23 | |
| ttx | Anything that will ruin the release next week that I should know about ? | 21:23 |
| russellb | if only we knew now | 21:23 |
| ttx | well, last week we uncovered the DB upgrades & the translations fail | 21:24 |
| ttx | So I'm going fishing again | 21:24 |
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| * dhellmann was picturing ttx with a crystal ball | 21:24 | |
| russellb | i think ubuntu broke qemu | 21:24 |
| russellb | but that's not really an openstack problem, exactly | 21:24 |
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| ttx | hmm :) | 21:25 |
| russellb | ttx: the bug targeted against nova's rc2 turned out to be qemu in ubuntu | 21:25 |
| ttx | russellb: will they fix it ? | 21:25 |
| annegentle | ttx: do you want some packaging problems install testing uncovered? | 21:25 |
| russellb | dunno, but i believe maintainer was emailed directly about it | 21:25 |
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| ttx | annegentle: hmm... maybe ? define packaging problems install testing | 21:26 |
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| annegentle | ttx: https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1297140 | 21:26 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1297140 in heat "Ubuntu 12.04 (LTS) - icehouse - heat packaging issues" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 21:26 |
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| ttx | oh, packaging issues | 21:26 |
| ttx | well, no | 21:26 |
| ttx | previous job. Done with that | 21:26 |
| annegentle | ttx: heh ok, that one's on its way to fixed anyway | 21:26 |
| annegentle | ttx: we are uncovering config naming hiccups | 21:27 |
| russellb | looks fixed already, nice ... https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1304107 | 21:27 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1304107 in qemu "Libvirt error launching instance - Device 'virtio-net-pci' could not be initialized" [High,Fix released] | 21:27 |
| annegentle | securitygroups | 21:27 |
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| annegentle | er security_group v. securitygroup | 21:27 |
| dolphm | this might only impact keystone because we removed keystone.openstack.common.rpc after switching to oslo.notifications but we realized today that rpc_backend options otherwise lose backwards compat when migrating from havana to icehouse http://www.mail-archive.com/openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org/msg21326.html | 21:27 |
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| ttx | dolphm: sounds like something to document in release notes ? | 21:28 |
| annegentle | and we're all bracing for the onslaught of utf-8 questions | 21:29 |
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| dolphm | ttx: at least for keystone, that's what i'm thinking (an uggrade note or known issue) | 21:29 |
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| ttx | annegentle: security_group v. securitygroup : release notes material ? | 21:29 |
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| dolphm | (given that we emitted notifications for the first time in havana, but didn't have any consumers) | 21:29 |
| ttx | OK, all in all, we don't seem to be in too bad of a shape | 21:29 |
| ttx | we shall be mostly frozen EOD Thursday | 21:30 |
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| ttx | and become conservative in what we consider release-critical | 21:30 |
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| annegentle | ttx: this bug fix helped with security_group v. securitygroup https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1304105 | 21:30 |
| ttx | anything else on that topic ? | 21:30 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1304105 in neutron "Section name [security_group] is wrong in sample config files" [Critical,Fix released] | 21:30 |
| ttx | ok, RC2 soon | 21:31 |
| ttx | #topic Incubated projects | 21:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Incubated projects (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:31 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, o/ | 21:31 |
| ttx | devananda, SergeyLukjanov, kgriffs|afk o/ | 21:31 |
| annegentle | related to Incubated projects, I recommend that each write their own release notes on the wiki using Key New Features, Significant bugs fixed, Known Issues, Upgrade Notes sections | 21:31 |
| devananda | ttx: o/ | 21:32 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: https://launchpad.net/sahara/+milestone/icehouse-rc2 | 21:32 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, sahara rc2 is planned to Thu | 21:32 |
| annegentle | page pattern like: http://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/<projectname>/ReleaseNotes/Icehouse | 21:32 |
| SergeyLukjanov | annegentle, will do | 21:32 |
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| devananda | annegentle: ack, will do this week | 21:32 |
| annegentle | SergeyLukjanov: thanks | 21:32 |
| annegentle | thanks devananda for asking | 21:32 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: I'm surprised you don't have more FixReleased in that list, since you've been backporting stuff | 21:33 |
| * ttx investigates | 21:33 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, looks like my bad | 21:33 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, I've moved some from fix released to fix committed due to the rc2 is not released | 21:34 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, is it incorrect? | 21:34 |
| ttx | Hah! it is | 21:34 |
| ttx | So. | 21:34 |
| ttx | FixCommitted means "fixed in master" | 21:34 |
| ttx | FixReleased means "fixed in milestone-proposed" | 21:34 |
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| ttx | taht's our only way to track that in LP | 21:34 |
| dolphm | this was confusing to me too ^ | 21:34 |
| ttx | so here is how we play | 21:34 |
| dolphm | surprising, anyway | 21:35 |
| devananda | hmm, yea, that's not what i expected | 21:35 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, oh..., | 21:35 |
| ttx | You only approve the backport to RC2 for stuff that is targeted to RC2 AND fixed in master (FixCommitted) | 21:35 |
| devananda | ttx: fwiw, we have two bugs identified as backport potential | 21:35 |
| ttx | that way you make sure your fix is in both branches | 21:35 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, so, I'm moving all of them to Fix Release :) | 21:35 |
| ttx | probably | 21:35 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, yup, all of them merged to master first | 21:36 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: and always have a bug for each backport | 21:36 |
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| devananda | ttx: though the proposed fix for one of them is a) non-trivial plumbing change and b) only a partial backport of the much larger change proposed for juno | 21:36 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: LP will automatically set "FixReleased" if the bug merges to milestone-proposed | 21:36 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: is it clear now or do you ned more explanation ? I know it's confusing | 21:36 |
| ttx | so the process is: | 21:37 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, ok, so, I'll update them to Fix Released and ensure that all backported changes have an issue or backing blueprint | 21:37 |
| ttx | - target to RC2 | 21:37 |
| ttx | - get the bug fixed in master | 21:37 |
| ttx | (it moves to FixCommitted) | 21:37 |
| ttx | - backport it to milestone-proposed | 21:37 |
| ttx | (it moves to FixReleased) | 21:37 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, the only unclear thing for me was "Fix Released", thanks for detailed explanation | 21:37 |
| ttx | then you use the milestone page to track progress to RC | 21:38 |
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| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: i'll let you fix status so that it matches reality | 21:38 |
| ttx | devananda: o/ | 21:38 |
| devananda | ttx: hi! | 21:38 |
| ttx | devananda: you're in full control of what ends up in icehouse release for ironic :) | 21:38 |
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| ttx | whatever you feel comfortable with, you can push to release branch | 21:39 |
| ttx | by design, it can't wreck the other projects since you're not integrated yet | 21:39 |
| devananda | ttx: ok. i've been avoiding large changes late in the cycle, in part because there are folks tracking us | 21:39 |
| devananda | ttx: and in part to get us used to the process / cadence | 21:40 |
| ttx | devananda: yes, that's not really a license to kill either | 21:40 |
| devananda | right :) | 21:40 |
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| devananda | so my question here, w.r.t. backports, is | 21:40 |
| ttx | devananda: but I just don't have the bandwidth to look into the incubated changes to check their risk/benefit ratio | 21:40 |
| devananda | fair enough | 21:40 |
| ttx | but i can give you advice if you need it | 21:40 |
| devananda | but any guidance on that is helpful :) | 21:40 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, statuses fixed | 21:40 |
| ttx | ok | 21:40 |
| * ttx likes how LP redirects transparently savanna to sahara | 21:41 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, yup, it works smoothly | 21:41 |
| SergeyLukjanov | we need such feature in storyboard too :) | 21:41 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: so 1302130 needs to be backported, and 1302755 1304100 first need to be fixed in master. Is that correct ? | 21:42 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, yup | 21:42 |
| ttx | devananda: if you have a specific doubt I can help address, just point me to it | 21:42 |
| * devananda gets the link | 21:42 | |
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| devananda | ttx: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ironic/+bug/1297925 | 21:43 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1297925 in ironic "Disk partitioning is broken if swap >= 1024mb" [Critical,In progress] | 21:43 |
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| ttx | that happens. swap >= 1024mb | 21:43 |
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| devananda | ttx: the proposed quick-fix is to s/sfdisk/parted/ | 21:44 |
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| devananda | but as we've been testing with one, not the other, it's hard for me to quantify the impact of that change this late | 21:44 |
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| ttx | devananda: ok -- so let's imagine hat was integrated | 21:45 |
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| ttx | +t | 21:45 |
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| ttx | that fix wouldn't be possible post-releasesince it fails stable patch acceptance to change behavior/deps/etc | 21:46 |
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| ttx | does it impact doc or is it completely under the hood ? | 21:46 |
| devananda | under the hood | 21:47 |
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| devananda | both sfdisk and parted are present on current ubuntu dists, and afaik, same goes for RH | 21:47 |
| ttx | devananda: ok... so you have two options: document the limitation in release notes, or just do all the testing you can and push the change to users asap | 21:47 |
| ttx | (rc2) | 21:47 |
| devananda | right -- i'd prefer option 2 | 21:47 |
| ttx | all depends how acceptable the "limitation" is | 21:47 |
| ttx | if ironic is useless without it, well option 2 it is | 21:48 |
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| devananda | not useless -- but hamstrung for deploying on large bare metal systems | 21:48 |
| devananda | where swap ~ RAM is expected | 21:48 |
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| ttx | frankly, given your state, it's a nobrainer, do it | 21:49 |
| devananda | ack | 21:49 |
| ttx | you want something usable and you can accept the risk | 21:49 |
| devananda | great, will push it today | 21:49 |
| devananda | thanks! | 21:49 |
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| devananda | I really appreciate the walk through the process :) | 21:50 |
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| ttx | devananda: not that in theory you'll need the fix to go in master first | 21:50 |
| ttx | devananda: before you backport (part of) it | 21:51 |
| devananda | does the backport need to be nearly the same code? | 21:51 |
| devananda | right | 21:51 |
| ttx | not necessarily | 21:51 |
| devananda | so there's a much larger feature proposed to fix it in master | 21:51 |
| devananda | and a small one as a backport | 21:51 |
| ttx | it's the safeguard to make sure we don't regress from MP to master | 21:51 |
| devananda | k | 21:51 |
| ttx | you could push the simple patch to master and then the refactor can overwrite it | 21:52 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, I like this idea of safeguarding | 21:52 |
| ttx | the two rules of milestone-proposed are: bug must be fixed (or not exist) in master | 21:52 |
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| ttx | and bug must be targeted to the relevant RC milestone | 21:53 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, btw, I've created m-p branches for the rest sahara repos as we agreed to release them like I do it before (with 2014.1 tag) | 21:53 |
| ttx | ok | 21:53 |
| ttx | devananda: want me to add the rc2 milestone for you ? | 21:53 |
| devananda | ttx: I just created it, thx | 21:54 |
| ttx | devananda: ok, just send me an email (or ping on IRC) when you need the tag pushed / tarball uploaded | 21:54 |
| devananda | ttx: ack. thanks | 21:55 |
| ttx | devananda: if the "much larger feature proposed to fix it in master" gets delayed I would advise you push a simple version of it first so that the backport can be safely pushed to mp | 21:56 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 21:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:57 | |
| ttx | Anything, anyone ? | 21:57 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:57 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 8 21:57:58 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:58 |
| ttx | oops | 21:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-04-08-21.03.html | 21:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-04-08-21.03.txt | 21:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-04-08-21.03.log.html | 21:58 |
| ttx | that was fast | 21:58 |
| devananda | lol | 21:58 |
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| dolphm | #success | 21:58 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, thx | 21:59 |
| ttx | aaand... sleep | 21:59 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, agreed ;) | 21:59 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #agreed time to sleep | 21:59 |
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