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| sc68cal | good morning, good afternoon, good evening | 13:57 |
|---|---|---|
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| sc68cal | #startmeeting neutron_ipv6 | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 18 14:00:14 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sc68cal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ipv6' | 14:00 |
| sc68cal | Hello everyone | 14:00 |
| baoli | Hi | 14:00 |
| aveiga | hello | 14:00 |
| sc68cal | No real concrete agenda today - so I won't bully everyone | 14:01 |
| dzyu | hello everyone | 14:01 |
| sc68cal | dzyu: Hi! | 14:01 |
| sc68cal | #topic recap last meeting | 14:02 |
| dzyu | long time to see you since I just came back this week | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "recap last meeting (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:02 | |
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| sc68cal | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-02-11-14.01.html minutes from last meeting | 14:02 |
| sc68cal | No action items were posted last week | 14:02 |
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| aveiga | I'd like to fix that this week | 14:03 |
| baoli | sc68cal, regarding the RA rule, I sent you an email with a few questions. Can you respond just to educate me? | 14:03 |
| absubram | hi | 14:03 |
| aveiga | I noticed that our wiki page is... lacking. I'd like to take an AI to clean it up, sc68cal | 14:03 |
| sc68cal | baoli: I'm hoping to discuss during the open discussion | 14:04 |
| baoli | ok, sounds good | 14:04 |
| sc68cal | aveiga: Thanks - I think everyone should take a crack at updating the wiki | 14:04 |
| shshang | Good morning, afternoon, evening! | 14:04 |
| xuhanp | hello, everyone | 14:04 |
| sc68cal | Do we have any BPs to discuss? | 14:05 |
| sc68cal | I know we have quite a bit to discuss regarding reviews | 14:05 |
| sc68cal | #topic reviews | 14:06 |
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| sc68cal | I know I have to rebase my review so that the alembic script gets run correctly | 14:07 |
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| sc68cal | since it's so close to I-3 - it's going to get more frequent | 14:07 |
| dzyu | Yes, I just rebase my code change https://review.openstack.org/#/c/56184/ base on Sean's code change | 14:07 |
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| xuhanp | sc68cal: I remember you still want to have some discussion about attribute validation | 14:08 |
| xuhanp | based on your last comment | 14:08 |
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| sc68cal | xuhanp: Yes - I was worried about the deployment model we're using, but I was able to clear it up by talking to aveiga | 14:09 |
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| sc68cal | where ra_mode would be ATTR_NOT_SPECIFIED | 14:09 |
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| sc68cal | and address_mode would be SLAAC | 14:09 |
| sc68cal | and enable_dhcp would be true | 14:09 |
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| sc68cal | and I believe the patch that shshang has makes everything work correctly | 14:10 |
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| sc68cal | where the dhcp agent will not start up on the v6 subnet, and dzyu's patch calculates the ipv6 slaac addresses. In theory. I haven't had a chance to do an integration test to verify | 14:11 |
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| sc68cal | Otherwise I just have to sit down re-read our convo last week and put together the code to block the bad combos we identified | 14:12 |
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| sc68cal | #action sc68cal add validation logic for bad combos identified last week | 14:12 |
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| sc68cal | #action sc68cal rebase first patch to fix alembic script | 14:13 |
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| sc68cal | Hoping that we can get xuhanp to rejoin | 14:14 |
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| dzyu | shshang: one question need to confirm. if ra-mode or address-mode is SLAAC/dhcpv6-stateless, OpenStack need to calculate the ip address base on subnet prifix and mac address, is it right? | 14:14 |
| aveiga | dzyu: yes | 14:14 |
| shshang | yes | 14:15 |
| dzyu | Ok | 14:15 |
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| baoli | sc68cal, can we go over the questions regarding RA rule? | 14:17 |
| sc68cal | yup - teeing it up | 14:17 |
| sc68cal | baoli: you had some q's about this review? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/72252/ | 14:17 |
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| sc68cal | since xuhanp rejoined | 14:18 |
| xuhanp | yep. I was disconnected | 14:18 |
| baoli | yes. with this command, neutron router-gateway-set <router-id> <ext-net-id> | 14:18 |
| baoli | an address from the ext-net will be the gateway IP, right? | 14:19 |
| * sc68cal checks the doc | 14:19 | |
| sc68cal | http://docs.openstack.org/havana/install-guide/install/apt/content/install-neutron.configure-networks.html | 14:20 |
| sc68cal | there appears to be a last step, where you assign an interface to the router | 14:20 |
| sc68cal | neutron router-interface-add EXT_TO_INT_ID DEMO_NET_SUBNET_ID | 14:21 |
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| baoli | sc68cal, that's the subnet gateway ip | 14:21 |
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| xuhanp | sc68cal: I believe this is for adding the tenent network | 14:21 |
| xuhanp | what baoli mentioned is the external network | 14:22 |
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| baoli | is that DEVICE_OWNER_ROUTER_GW | 14:22 |
| sc68cal | I'm not 100% sure on what router-gateway-set does inside the plugin | 14:22 |
| sc68cal | but it looks like from that doc it's just establishing the route between the ext-net-id and the demo_net_subnet_id | 14:23 |
| sc68cal | so, we'd only be concerned about RAs going from the newly created router & interface, announcing RA's inside demo_net_subnet_id ? | 14:24 |
| sc68cal | I don't think we'd be changing anything on ext-net-id, but I could be wrong (likely) | 14:24 |
| baoli | I think that my concern is this: for IPv6, if the gateway ip (router gw, or subnet gw) is used to construct a iptable rule to allow RA, then it should make it explicit. | 14:24 |
| sc68cal | can you expand upon what you mean by making it explicit? | 14:25 |
| xuhanp | so baoli, are you saying we should allow RA from other IPs on the external network? | 14:25 |
| xuhanp | not only the gateway? | 14:25 |
| baoli | For example, in the case of ipv4, the gw ip is used to establish a route | 14:25 |
| baoli | xuhanp, I'm not saying that. I'm saying implicitly we are using these IPs to create iptables rules to allow RA | 14:26 |
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| baoli | in the case of IPv6 | 14:26 |
| aveiga | baoli: we are implicitly using all gateways, either set in the neutron subnet or by an attached router | 14:27 |
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| sc68cal | +1 | 14:28 |
| baoli | aveiga, I understand. But this gateway ip must be a LLA in the case of IPv6, in order for the proposed patch to work. | 14:28 |
| sc68cal | baoli: I believe that is a separate issue. | 14:28 |
| sc68cal | At this point we need a spike to see how a neutron router is created for ipv6 | 14:29 |
| sc68cal | it *may* already use an LLA. And if not, feel free to make a patch that does so | 14:29 |
| aveiga | it MUST use an LLA | 14:29 |
| aveiga | baoli is correct here | 14:29 |
| aveiga | however | 14:29 |
| sc68cal | I agree that it must be an LLA per the protocol, but I don't know what the neutron code currently does | 14:30 |
| aveiga | we didn't put in any checking code | 14:30 |
| aveiga | it has to be doing LLA, since an RA can'tbe issued otherwise | 14:30 |
| sc68cal | someone want to volunteer to do a code audit on neutron routers for v6 functionality? | 14:31 |
| xuhanp | I can do that | 14:31 |
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| baoli | neutron router-gateway-set <router-id> <ext-net-id> creates a router gateway port. And you can see it's from a ext-net. This means for ipv6, we have to create a ext net with LLAs. which doesn't sound right to me | 14:31 |
| aveiga | there has to be an LLA on every net | 14:32 |
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| aveiga | I think this is a slightly different question from the code for filtering RAs | 14:32 |
| aveiga | the real question here is are we checking that the router gateway IP is LLA? | 14:32 |
| sc68cal | yes - and if anything, any code that addresses the LLAs will update the database with an LLA address, so the code xuhanp will pick it up correctly | 14:33 |
| sc68cal | via his query | 14:33 |
| sc68cal | which is a long way of saying, I think we should try and get the bug fix that xuhanp has proposed in, and investigate the LLA issue separately | 14:33 |
| xuhanp | aveiga: I am not sure how to make sure the ext-net has LLA | 14:33 |
| aveiga | you don't have to | 14:33 |
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| aveiga | EVERY net MUST have LLA | 14:33 |
| shshang | +1 | 14:34 |
| aveiga | you can't do ND without it | 14:34 |
| aveiga | or RD | 14:34 |
| aveiga | or any kind of non-static addressing | 14:34 |
| xuhanp | so you mean we just need to get it updated into database? | 14:34 |
| sc68cal | xuhanp: that's my thought - +1 | 14:34 |
| aveiga | probably | 14:35 |
| baoli | aveiga, the protocol defined LLA's prefix as fe80:: | 14:35 |
| aveiga | baoli: that's right | 14:35 |
| aveiga | so the question is, do we want to validate that a router address being entered is LL? | 14:35 |
| xuhanp | so we need to store two addresses for ext-net? | 14:35 |
| aveiga | I would consider that we don't validate | 14:36 |
| sc68cal | +1 | 14:36 |
| sc68cal | We just need to make Neutron use the LLA | 14:36 |
| aveiga | in the case that someone wants to do static addressing and static route entries | 14:36 |
| baoli | with this command, neutron router-gateway-set, you can't enter an LLA | 14:36 |
| aveiga | ah, so that's an issue | 14:36 |
| aveiga | but the issue isn't with the RA filtering code there | 14:36 |
| aveiga | go up the chain and file a bug on the gateway code | 14:37 |
| baoli | This is not an issue with IPv4 | 14:37 |
| baoli | So I don't think that it's a bug | 14:37 |
| sc68cal | Ipv6 != ipv4 | 14:37 |
| aveiga | because there is no such thing as LLA in IPV4 | 14:37 |
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| dzyu | whether need to restore LLA address, just make sure ext-net have LLA, is it enough? | 14:37 |
| sc68cal | baoli: Can I add an action item for you to remove your -1, and do a blueprint to look into neutron gateways and LLAs? | 14:38 |
| aveiga | dzyu: not sure where you're going there | 14:38 |
| sc68cal | and you can report back to us next week on what you find | 14:38 |
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| aveiga | I think if neutron is running the router, it needs to be LLA | 14:39 |
| baoli | sc68cal, well, the code won't work | 14:39 |
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| aveiga | but if it's an external device then it can be anything | 14:39 |
| sc68cal | baoli: I do not agree | 14:39 |
| aveiga | if it's either LLA or within the external net address range | 14:39 |
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| sc68cal | baoli: Your assertation that the code won't work is not due to a flaw in the patch that xuhanp has proposed | 14:40 |
| baoli | sc68cal, I may be wrong if xuhanp has tested it thouroughly | 14:40 |
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| aveiga | baoli: try it yourself. Apply the patch and rebuild | 14:40 |
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| sc68cal | baoli: If you are concerned about LLAs - please propose a patch that enforces the usage of LLAs in v6 routers | 14:40 |
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| aveiga | eh, please don't | 14:40 |
| aveiga | there are use cases where you might want to use GUA routing | 14:41 |
| baoli | The patch assumes that the gateway IP is an LLA | 14:41 |
| sc68cal | OK - then we can discuss that problem in that review - not in xuhanp's patch | 14:41 |
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| sc68cal | My point is that we have an open security issue, and I believe xuhanp 's patch gets us very close, if not closes it | 14:41 |
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| sc68cal | better to get the ball to the 10 than stay at the 50 | 14:41 |
| dzyu | +1 | 14:42 |
| baoli | if that assumption is not right, the patch wouldn't work as it's intended. | 14:42 |
| baoli | sc68cal, can you point me to the patch that creates default rules to allow neighbor related messages? | 14:42 |
| sc68cal | baoli: Please look at the linked bug | 14:43 |
| sc68cal | I left it as a comment | 14:43 |
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| sc68cal | in xuhanp's patch's commit message | 14:43 |
| sc68cal | This is basic stuff | 14:43 |
| baoli | sorry I missed it. | 14:43 |
| sc68cal | Honestly you can't be a roadblock for people if you're not able to do basic research | 14:43 |
| sc68cal | I'm sorry to come off harsh but we're under the gun here | 14:43 |
| sc68cal | for I-3 | 14:43 |
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| baoli | well, not trying to be a road blocker. But that's what the review is there for, right? | 14:45 |
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| aveiga | I think the issue is an upstream one | 14:45 |
| aveiga | fix the upstream code to make the assumption right, because it's a correct assumption | 14:45 |
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| aveiga | and if you really want to use GUA, then you'd have the sense to add an allow ICMPv6 | 14:46 |
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| aveiga | at an SG level | 14:46 |
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| sc68cal | OK - well i suppose if nobody has anything else, we can adjourn for today | 14:50 |
| absubram | sc68cal: Sean.. do we have time for open discussion.. or would you rather I sent out an email.. for the Horizon BP | 14:50 |
| sc68cal | absubram: sure! | 14:51 |
| sc68cal | #topic open discussion | 14:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:51 | |
| absubram | just a couple quick questions.. I only have Sean's neutron diffs so I may be missing some other important patches.. | 14:51 |
| absubram | but I have been able to get basic functionality working | 14:51 |
| sc68cal | cool! | 14:51 |
| absubram | i.e I am able to create subnets with the two options.. for SOME combinations.. eg slaac/slaac; slaac/stateful | 14:52 |
| absubram | however off/off does not work | 14:52 |
| absubram | it seems to find "off" to be a bad parameter in neutron? | 14:52 |
| sc68cal | when you say off/off- do you mean you're sending strings with the value of "off"? | 14:52 |
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| absubram | yes.. that's exactly what I am doing.. sending a string "off" | 14:52 |
| absubram | is that wrong? | 14:52 |
| sc68cal | Ah ok - sorry for the confusion | 14:52 |
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| sc68cal | I think when we say "off" - we mean ATTR_NOT_SPECIFIED | 14:53 |
| absubram | ah ok | 14:53 |
| absubram | so that was going to be next question.. if no value was presented would that be the same as off | 14:53 |
| sc68cal | basically if they're off - don't set the attribute | 14:53 |
| sc68cal | Does that make sense? | 14:53 |
| absubram | ok.. right.. so I am able to create subnet via Horizon fine when I don't have a value specifified for the two attributes | 14:54 |
| absubram | so I'll just get rid of the "off" option | 14:54 |
| aveiga | it might also be good to recheck after sc68cal updates his code with the validation portion. There are combinations (such as slaac/stateful) that are invalid | 14:54 |
| sc68cal | +1 - although Neutron will return an error giving you the reason | 14:54 |
| absubram | ok.. Sean mentioned neutron does the check for invalid combo? | 14:54 |
| absubram | ok cool | 14:54 |
| sc68cal | so you should be able to just display what neutron gives you back in the case of an error | 14:54 |
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| absubram | again I have only ttested to see if I can create a subnet | 14:54 |
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| absubram | I haven't actually tested the subnet itslef then to see if it functions correctly | 14:55 |
| absubram | was hoping one of you could test that for me :) | 14:55 |
| absubram | I'll send out an email with a pointer to the review as soon as I have it up.. which should be this afternoon.. need a little code cleanup | 14:55 |
| absubram | then shshang I'll take up on the offer you made last week to test it ;) | 14:56 |
| shshang | sure | 14:56 |
| shshang | let me know what I can help you wiht | 14:56 |
| shshang | thanks for giving me heads up | 14:56 |
| sc68cal | Yeah we'll need to refresh dzyu's neutron-cli review | 14:57 |
| absubram | those were the only questions I had on Horizon.. I did hit a differnt issue via CLI.. but thankfully not via Horizon | 14:57 |
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| dzyu | Yes, I will change neutron cli ASAP | 14:57 |
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| xuhanp | dzyu and also have confusions about address calculation code. Will discussion it in ML | 14:57 |
| absubram | CLI returns this for some reason | 14:57 |
| absubram | absubram@absubram-VirtualBox:~/devstack$ neutron subnet-create ab_net_v6_1 --ip-version 6 --ipv6_ra_mode slaac --ipv6_address_mode slaac fe80::/80 --name ab_sub_v6_1 Invalid input for ipv6_ra_mode. Reason: 'True' is not a valid string. | 14:57 |
| absubram | but it works fine vis dashboard now | 14:58 |
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| sc68cal | yeah the CLI hasn't been patched to take the new attributes | 14:58 |
| absubram | got it | 14:58 |
| absubram | ok.. that's all I had.. look out for my email later today :) | 14:58 |
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| sc68cal | feel free to coordinate with dzyu - the old review is here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/54250/ | 14:58 |
| dzyu | xuhanp, I have talked it with shshang | 14:58 |
| xuhanp | cool. | 14:59 |
| dane_ | shshang: Any luck with the UT? | 14:59 |
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| sc68cal | shshang: I got your e-mail this morning, let's try and meet up tomorrow during the day | 14:59 |
| shshang | No...I am still struggilng with submitting the change. | 14:59 |
| shshang | :( | 14:59 |
| shshang | sure, thanks sc68cal and dane | 14:59 |
| sc68cal | ok everyone - till next time | 15:00 |
| sc68cal | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 18 15:00:17 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-02-18-14.00.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-02-18-14.00.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-02-18-14.00.log.html | 15:00 |
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| n0ano | #startmeeting gantt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 18 15:00:57 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'gantt' | 15:01 |
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| n0ano | anyone here to talk about the scheduler | 15:01 |
| bauzas | o/ | 15:01 |
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| bauzas | I can see the topic name as changed from scheduler to gantt ;) | 15:02 |
| n0ano | since gantt is the new scheduler project that seemed appropriate | 15:02 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: can't agree more | 15:02 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: my concern was that gantt wasn't enough visible yet | 15:02 |
| toan-tran | yet now that we're saying maybe we're putting gantt out of openstack git | 15:03 |
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| n0ano | I try and raise visibility whenever possible, talking about it at the mid cycle meetup certainly helps | 15:03 |
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| toan-tran | shoud we put the meetings back under nova banner? | 15:03 |
| n0ano | toan-tran, since when, I haven't heard that | 15:03 |
| bauzas | n0ano: indeed, we're waiting for the summary of what has been discussed during the mid-cycle meeting | 15:03 |
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| bauzas | but I agree with the fact it should be a stackforge project | 15:04 |
| toan-tran | n0ano: in the mid-cycle mail from Russell | 15:04 |
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| n0ano | gimme a second... | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: there is a summary on here, a rough one, https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-icehouse-mid-cycle-meetup-items | 15:04 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: thanks | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm, not so good with the gantt section mind | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | oops | 15:05 |
| n0ano | #topic mid-cycle meetup | 15:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "mid-cycle meetup (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:05 | |
| bauzas | n0ano: I'm currently wondering where I should put blueprints for gantt | 15:05 |
| n0ano | well, let me give my summary | 15:05 |
| bauzas | sure :) | 15:05 |
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| toan-tran | here: #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-February/027370.html | 15:06 |
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| n0ano | What I heard is everyone wants to move the scheduler to a separate tree but we;'re not sure the current nova scheduler is ready for that | 15:06 |
| toan-tran | "2) Gantt - We discussed the progress of the Gantt effort. After | 15:06 |
| toan-tran | discussing the problems encountered so far and the other scheduler work | 15:06 |
| toan-tran | going on, the consensus was that we really need to focus on decoupling | 15:06 |
| toan-tran | the scheduler from the rest of Nova while it's still in the Nova tree. | 15:06 |
| toan-tran | Don was still interested in working on the existing gantt tree to learn | 15:06 |
| toan-tran | what he can about the coupling of the scheduler to the rest of Nova. | 15:06 |
| toan-tran | Nobody had a problem with that, but it doesn't sound like we'll be ready | 15:06 |
| toan-tran | to regenerate the gantt tree to be the "real" gantt tree soon. We | 15:06 |
| toan-tran | probably need another cycle of development before it will be ready." | 15:06 |
| n0ano | we should be working on creating clean interfaces in the current nova scheduler and, once we have clean interfaces, we can split this out | 15:07 |
| n0ano | toan-tran, yes, that matches what I heard | 15:07 |
| bauzas | n0ano: so the first effort would be to split the interfaces ? | 15:07 |
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| toan-tran | as I remember, there were two approaches for Gantt | 15:07 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I'm particularly concerned about the nova imports in the gantt code | 15:07 |
| toan-tran | one from Robert that fork out, then cut tie | 15:08 |
| n0ano | moving the gantt tree from openstack to stackforge is not a major concern, that's just a housekeeping issue. | 15:08 |
| toan-tran | the other from Boris that cut tie, then fork out | 15:08 |
| n0ano | bauzas, yes, cleaning up the interfaces is the first concern, as you say, the nova imports can be a bit problematic | 15:08 |
| bauzas | n0ano: well, I tried to update the oslo commons | 15:08 |
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| glikson | toan-tran: yeah, seems that both approaches ignore the interfaces issue.. | 15:08 |
| bauzas | n0ano: by replacing from nova to gantt and run an update.py | 15:09 |
| toan-tran | glikson: I think that Boris' group is working on some part of the interface | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | basically, we mentioned the no-db compute work, lets do something similar for the scheduler, then split it out | 15:09 |
| toan-tran | namely : the data access | 15:09 |
| bauzas | until we have a 100% gantt classes import, we raise some DuplicateOptError | 15:09 |
| n0ano | bauzas, yes, that handles openstack/common (other projects do that so that's easy), it's the other imports of straight nova code that create problesm. | 15:10 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I'm trying to provide a patch to oslo.config for handling different projects | 15:10 |
| bauzas | n0ano: but that requires a clean-up in Gantt anyway | 15:10 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, I'm a little curious why we don't have an oslo.common, why do you have to do the update.py all the time? | 15:11 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: IMHO, we can't focus on having clean interfaces with Nova without doing the clean-up stuff | 15:11 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: well, gantt should stand up by its own with the oslo commons | 15:11 |
| glikson | johnthetubaguy: the question is whether we have a good approach to 'something similar' here.. | 15:11 |
| bauzas | n0ano: so, I made a clean-up in reqs.txt, removing what was not present | 15:11 |
| bauzas | oops | 15:11 |
| bauzas | not in reqs.txt, openstack-common.conf sorry | 15:12 |
| bauzas | and then ran an update.py | 15:12 |
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| bauzas | (and updated the imports, of course) | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | glikson: sure, we kinda agreed it seemed like there was | 15:12 |
| bauzas | I can provide a draft review if you want | 15:12 |
| n0ano | bauzas, yeah, I've tried that too, it gets the openstack/common imports local to gantt but you still have other nova imports to deal with | 15:13 |
| bauzas | yey | 15:13 |
| bauzas | n0ano: that's why I'm focusing on having a wrapper on top of oslo.config | 15:13 |
| glikson | johnthetubaguy: you mean, with in-memory cache, updated via RPC? | 15:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | glikson: no | 15:13 |
| n0ano | bauzas, when I did that I started hitting circular dependencies and wound up moving 90% of nova over to the gantt tree, not what we want | 15:13 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: well, it seems we could join our efforts | 15:14 |
| n0ano | bauzas, I think that comes back to cleaning up the interfaces and not making the scheduler so intertwined with nova | 15:14 |
| glikson | johnthetubaguy: ok, then maybe I am not aware of the discussion/agreement you refer to | 15:14 |
| n0ano | bauzas, for sure, we be good to work together | 15:14 |
| bauzas | n0ano: well, there are also some huge concerns about interfaces | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | glikson: I am just talking about what we spoke about at the mid cycle meet up, to me this one is the key:https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/remove-cast-to-schedule-run-instance | 15:15 |
| bauzas | but that's matter of priority | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, so do we know where we add the interface in, the above blueprint seems to make it much easier | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | I know its probably not going into icehouse at this point though | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | basically removes compute rpc calls from inside the scheduler manager | 15:16 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so conductor calls scheduler for a list of hosts | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | gives a request spec | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | gets back a list of hosts | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | the other interface is something like an update_compute_stats_api | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | where at the moment it writes to the DB, but does other things later | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | (a slice inside the current host manager, or something like that) | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, seems two good places to start making a cut? | 15:17 |
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| bauzas | yep, there is also the need of having HostState querying Nova | 15:17 |
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| glikson | johnthetubaguy: getting the entire data model via an API for every placement decision would be far from optimal.. or you have some other approach in mind? | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | the host state belongs to the scheduler | 15:18 |
| bauzas | but the resource_tracker belongs to the compute, no ? | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | ish… let me explain | 15:19 |
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| johnthetubaguy | if the api to record the stats from compute belongs the the scheduler, then the current stats db, can live in the scheduler | 15:19 |
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| johnthetubaguy | its a case of where you draw the line, I think | 15:19 |
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| johnthetubaguy | does that make any sense? | 15:20 |
| n0ano | johnthetubaguy, isn't that related to the no-db scheduler work, remove the stats db then it resides in the scheduler | 15:20 |
| bauzas | ok gotcha | 15:20 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: was speaking about https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/scheduler/host_manager.py#L440 | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | n0ano: related, but shound't be dependent on it | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: in my model you have all the scheduler db owned by the scheduler, so it doesn't matter so much, its not querying nova, its talking to its own db, that just looks like the current nova one, and might even be stored in the same place | 15:21 |
| n0ano | carry on, I have to go deal with my trashcan blowing over in the wind | 15:21 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: well, I got your view | 15:22 |
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| toan-tran | johnthetubaguy: there is also a question on frenquently_task update & nova-conductor | 15:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | what question is that? sorry, not sure I get the issue here? | 15:22 |
| glikson | johnthetubaguy: how that DB will be updated? | 15:22 |
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| toan-tran | nova-compute will update its stats to *some one* | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | it calls a libary provided by the scheduler | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | which at the moment just updates the same old DB | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | in the end it might send an rpc | 15:23 |
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| johnthetubaguy | doesn't matter, its owned by gantt now | 15:23 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: ok got it | 15:23 |
| toan-tran | last meeting someone taled about using nova-conductor as it is now | 15:23 |
| glikson | johnthetubaguy: "it" = nova-compute? | 15:23 |
| toan-tran | then conductor updates/synchron all schedulers (if there are many) | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | yes, at the moment, might need to switch the arrow in the end too | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | so conductor is interesting here... | 15:24 |
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| johnthetubaguy | with this: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/remove-cast-to-schedule-run-instance | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | it means there are no calls from scheduler to compute | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | or casts | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | conductor calls scheduler to get a list of hosts | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | and its done | 15:24 |
| toan-tran | johnthetubaguy: yes | 15:25 |
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| johnthetubaguy | all I think is, add these two seams | 15:25 |
| toan-tran | johnthetubaguy: for novaAPI call | 15:25 |
| Yathi | I like this.. This is heading towards scheduler being a pure resource placement decision engine | 15:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | then see how far we get | 15:25 |
| toan-tran | nova API --> conductor --> scheduler --> host states | 15:25 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yep | 15:25 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: what is still unclear to me is how the metrics are updated | 15:26 |
| toan-tran | nova compute --> update stats --> conductor --> synchron schedulers | 15:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | that is what we get after: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/remove-cast-to-schedule-run-instance | 15:26 |
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| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: that's basically the mission of the compute resource_tracker | 15:26 |
| Yathi | But has anyone given a thought about a unified data repository.. a db sitting outside.. | 15:26 |
| bauzas | which calls the conductor | 15:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: metrics are updated using code provided by gantt | 15:26 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: well, I missed this big piece | 15:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | thats the second piece | 15:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | first piece is conductor so its a simple rpc query | 15:27 |
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| johnthetubaguy | second bit | 15:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | code lib to update metrics | 15:27 |
| toan-tran | johnthetubaguy: so gantt will define the metric / host_state model? | 15:27 |
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| johnthetubaguy | right now, it just does what we do today | 15:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | toan-tran: if you agree with the extensible metric thing, its just a dict | 15:27 |
| bauzas | does it go into blueprints now ? | 15:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | but yes, gantt would own the meaning of the keys | 15:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | we have blueprints for all this already, except the above code lib | 15:28 |
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| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: depends if we agree with this | 15:28 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: and so this is why I missed it :) | 15:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | also, no more blueprints until Juno now | 15:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | code freeze is tomorrow | 15:28 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: yup, I know | 15:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | I guessed, just wanted to share that deadline :) | 15:29 |
| bauzas | :) | 15:29 |
| bauzas | n0ano: do we have blueprints in place ? | 15:29 |
| glikson | johnthetubaguy: ok, I agree that these 2 interfaces make sense, as a first step | 15:29 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I mean for gantt, of course | 15:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | glikson: agreed, its just a first step, then we see what "mess" is left | 15:29 |
| n0ano | bauzas, which ones to you mean, we have lots | 15:29 |
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| n0ano | yes, there's a blueprint for splitting it out | 15:29 |
| bauzas | in Nova ? | 15:29 |
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| bauzas | would it be worth putting some here : https://blueprints.launchpad.net/gantt ? | 15:30 |
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| n0ano | actually, there's an ether pad for that, https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/icehouse-external-scheduler | 15:30 |
| glikson | johnthetubaguy: actually splitting the DB's would be non-trivial, I gues.. | 15:30 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: woah, this etherpad is really big :) | 15:30 |
| n0ano | bauzas, creating separate BPs for specific tasks would be good | 15:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | glikson: with the above model, its already done, I feel, because the scheduler gets info pushed in, except for the stuff it owns | 15:31 |
| n0ano | the original idea was that just splitting the code would be easy, turns out it's not that trivial so some work (cleaning interfaces) will need to be done first | 15:31 |
| toan-tran | johnthetubaguy: should gantt create its own model instead of ugin nova's | 15:31 |
| toan-tran | ? | 15:31 |
| toan-tran | s/ugin/using/ | 15:32 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: well, I think that's just matter of backporting the existing one | 15:32 |
| glikson | johnthetubaguy: well, not exactly, because same DB is used also for queries, keeping track of in-flight operations, etc.. now you will have 2 DBs.. | 15:32 |
| bauzas | the metrics column is enough flexible for the first needs | 15:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | toan-tran: I don't think it matters if we do the split I suggested | 15:32 |
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| johnthetubaguy | glikson: right, but the scheduler doesn't write to those other tables, after the move to conductor work | 15:33 |
| bauzas | the only worrying thing I can see is that we have a big dependency with Nova in Gantt | 15:33 |
| bauzas | even if the interfaces are clean | 15:34 |
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| glikson | johnthetubaguy: so, maybe some of the updates that conductor does will need to go to scheduler's DB too.. | 15:34 |
| bauzas | that does require to deploy both gantt and nova on the same host | 15:34 |
| Yathi | johnthetubaguy: This is probably for future, Do you think it would be possible to push other metrics (non-compute related - storage, network, etc) to the scheduler DB, to make interesting scheduling decisions | 15:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | glikson: again, thats through the code lib, but its unlikely | 15:34 |
| bauzas | because gantt is currently heaving using nova libs | 15:34 |
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| johnthetubaguy | Yathi: sure, thats the extensible resource scheduler stuff, and it goes through the code libs | 15:35 |
| bauzas | Yathi: that should be possible using the extensible resources bp | 15:35 |
| n0ano | bauzas, I was hoping that cleaning up the interfaces would involve removing the use of those nova libs | 15:35 |
| bauzas | n0ano: that's hard work | 15:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: yes, but that should be minimal, given how much oslo has, thats step three, lets say | 15:35 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: I agree with this as step #3 | 15:35 |
| Yathi | cool.. | 15:35 |
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| toan-tran | bauzas: no, nova and gantt can be deployed on different hosts | 15:35 |
| toan-tran | as nova-* & nova-scheduler now | 15:36 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: how do you deal the nova libs imports in Gantt ? :) | 15:36 |
| toan-tran | just duplicating some code | 15:36 |
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| bauzas | deal ^with | 15:36 |
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| glikson | johnthetubaguy: otherwise there might be ugly race conditions.. scheduler may need to "remember" the decisions it made, before they propagate back via nova-comute.. | 15:36 |
| Yathi | The other discussion we had in the ML was about reservations (via CLimate or otherwise).. how will that fit in here | 15:37 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: it's like copying nova into new place, replace some part with gantt, then once we have clean interface we can remove the nova part | 15:37 |
| bauzas | Yathi: I think it's too early for this | 15:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | glikson: we already have all those races, and there is code in the scheduler to avoid some of them | 15:37 |
| glikson | Yathi: I guess my last comment is related to reservations.. | 15:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | glikson: its why we have to retry sometimes | 15:37 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: I'm not saying I dunno how to do this, I'm just saying that's hard work :) | 15:37 |
| bauzas | what do you exactly want to reserve ? | 15:38 |
| toan-tran | no argument here :) | 15:38 |
| Yathi | bauzas: If we are defining APIs in gantt now, I guess it makes sense now | 15:38 |
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| bauzas | Yathi: please provide an usecase, I can't see what needs to be reserved in Climate | 15:38 |
| toan-tran | well, aparently, they're developping some mechanism for reserving instances via Climate | 15:38 |
| bauzas | I'm a core contributor for Climate, what do you exactly want to know ? :) | 15:39 |
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| Yathi | after the scheduler has determined the hosts to use, it should call the reservations to get the lease.. the conductor can then use the lease to create the instances | 15:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | so… I have tried to put all this plan into the etherpad | 15:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/icehouse-external-scheduler | 15:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | does that make sense | 15:39 |
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| n0ano | johnthetubaguy, certainly, tnx | 15:39 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: will review it | 15:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | I just tried to summarise the discussion above, just now | 15:40 |
| mspreitz | Climate, if I understand correctly, tackles the pretty hard job of scheduling over both time and space | 15:40 |
| n0ano | again, tnx, I was just about to ask you to summarize | 15:40 |
| Yathi | bauzas: regarding reservations, when conductor asks scheduler for a list of hosts, it can get back the host list along with reservation ? | 15:41 |
| bauzas | Climate is providing some way to provision resources by defining plugins | 15:41 |
| mspreitz | Integrating that with the sort of placement logic that some others of us have discussed looks like a pretty tall order to me | 15:41 |
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| bauzas | you can imagine a call from the scheduler to Climate for creating a lease | 15:42 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: does climate interact with nova via nova API? or directly to nova-scheduler/nova-conductor? | 15:42 |
| mspreitz | How do the plugins divide the job amongst themselves? | 15:42 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: nah, thru the API | 15:42 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: we are a separate project, no way to use the AMQP protocol for this | 15:42 |
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| toan-tran | ok, so I imagine the msg flow would be Climate -> nova API -> nova condcutor -> nova-scheduler | 15:43 |
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| bauzas | mspreitz: that depends on the resource plugin logic | 15:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | maybe we are getting distracted | 15:43 |
| toan-tran | what will nova-scheduler would return at this point? | 15:43 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: indeed | 15:43 |
| bauzas | that would be step #4 | 15:44 |
| bauzas | or maybe more | 15:44 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, feel free to update the etherpad with a 4th step | 15:44 |
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| mspreitz | bauzas: is there a short sharp writeup of this? | 15:44 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: well, I'm not exacttly understanding the need for placing a call to Climate, but will put an entry | 15:45 |
| Yathi | bauzas: we can probably continue the discussion in ML | 15:45 |
| bauzas | and others could amend it | 15:45 |
| n0ano | bauzas, +1 | 15:45 |
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| n0ano | I think we're bottoming out here, let's move on | 15:46 |
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| toan-tran | bauzas, + 1 | 15:46 |
| n0ano | #no-db scheduler | 15:46 |
| n0ano | anyone here who can give an update? | 15:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | we were very worried about merging this in icehouse | 15:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | at the mid term meet up | 15:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | very late, massive change, thingy | 15:46 |
| n0ano | johnthetubaguy, yeah, I was hoping it would be farther along but looks like they hit issues | 15:47 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I think the split we just discussed should be depend on this work | 15:47 |
| n0ano | I agree, unfortunately, it's not looking good for Icehouse | 15:47 |
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| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: how far is the change impact the interface with conductor ? | 15:48 |
| n0ano | It will make splitting easier but it's always easy to say let's just wait for this next thing, sometimes you just have to do it | 15:48 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: I was thinking that as all DB calls were passing thru the conductor, it was quite transparent for the scheduler? | 15:48 |
| johnthetubaguy | erm, there are patches up | 15:48 |
| bauzas | provided the interfaces wouldn't change, of couse | 15:48 |
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| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: ok, will look | 15:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | the DB calls would not go through the conductor from the scheduler, unless we wanted it to | 15:49 |
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| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: ok, glancing at the reviews | 15:50 |
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| n0ano | well, no one from the no-db team seems to be here so | 15:50 |
| n0ano | #topic opens | 15:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:50 | |
| n0ano | anyone have anthing new they want to raise? | 15:50 |
| toan-tran | I have a question on nova object | 15:51 |
| toan-tran | there is an issue on unified object | 15:51 |
| Yathi | the Solver Scheduler blueprint has a few patches now, and we are hoping some or all of them will get in the icehouse timeframe depending on the reviews | 15:51 |
| toan-tran | does it go to Icehouse? and what is the impact of this? | 15:51 |
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| johnthetubaguy | hmm, good question | 15:53 |
| toan-tran | here is the discussion: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-February/026160.html | 15:53 |
| johnthetubaguy | it seems ok to go in, its optional, and patches are up there | 15:53 |
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| toan-tran | hello? | 15:55 |
| n0ano | toan-tran, didn't johnthetubaguy answer your question | 15:55 |
| mspreitz | Can someone help a newbie here, what is the alternative to "objecty" ? | 15:56 |
| toan-tran | n0ano, sorry, not really understood :) | 15:56 |
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| mspreitz | (I mean "objecty" as used in the email cited above) | 15:57 |
| toan-tran | the unified object is here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/icehouse-objects | 15:57 |
| n0ano | well, approaching the top of the hour so I'll thank everyone and we'll talk next week. | 15:58 |
| n0ano | #endmeeting | 15:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 18 15:58:33 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-02-18-15.00.html | 15:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-02-18-15.00.txt | 15:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-02-18-15.00.log.html | 15:58 |
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| primeministerp | #startmeeting hyper-v | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 18 16:00:07 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is primeministerp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v' | 16:00 |
| primeministerp | hi everyone | 16:00 |
| primeministerp | we'll give the other's a couple minutes to join | 16:00 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: hi tavi | 16:00 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: hey alex | 16:00 |
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| ociuhandu | primeministerp: morning | 16:01 |
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| primeministerp | ociuhandu: hit alex pls | 16:02 |
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| ociuhandu | primeministerp: how's the snow around there? heard it's still snowing? | 16:02 |
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| primeministerp | this afternoon | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | i believe | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | i can't keep track | 16:03 |
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| alexpilotti | hello! | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | hey alex | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: hey pedro | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | no luis today | 16:04 |
| alexpilotti | on today's topics: we have a last minute Neutron BP approved for I3: #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/hyperv-security-groups | 16:05 |
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| primeministerp | o great | 16:05 |
| primeministerp | let's start w/ that | 16:05 |
| primeministerp | #topic hyper-v security groups | 16:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "hyper-v security groups (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:05 | |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: anything particular to discuss? | 16:06 |
| alexpilotti | so since we had various requests for security groups in the Neutron Hyper-V agent | 16:06 |
| pnavarro | hi ! | 16:06 |
| alexpilotti | pnavarro: hi there! :-) | 16:06 |
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| alexpilotti | we thought about implementing it for I3, as anyway we were done with all the remaining priorities | 16:06 |
| pnavarro | hi alex ! | 16:06 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: glad you could squeeze it in | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | code is already up for review | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: perfecto! | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: do you have more on your agenda? | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: to discuss today? | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | the Neutron core guys were also very helpful in accepting it so... last minute! | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: as always | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | ok, that's it | 16:08 |
| alexpilotti | other topic on my side is RDP | 16:08 |
| primeministerp | still no luis | 16:08 |
| primeministerp | o | 16:08 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:08 |
| primeministerp | topic #rdp | 16:08 |
| alexpilotti | as it 66% merged :-) | 16:08 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: fantastic! | 16:08 |
| alexpilotti | so 2 patches out of 3 are merged | 16:08 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: that's great news | 16:08 |
| alexpilotti | actually 3 out of 4, counting python-novaclient | 16:08 |
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| alexpilotti | plus the Horizon one is also waiting review | 16:09 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: i've been chatting on and off w/ mark over the last few weeks as well | 16:09 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: wow | 16:09 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: good work | 16:09 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: if i can get ever get out of the datacenter | 16:09 |
| primeministerp | ... | 16:09 |
| alexpilotti | we have a last Nova one that russellb is planning to review | 16:09 |
| primeministerp | russellb: thx for your help in advance | 16:10 |
| russellb | yep np | 16:10 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: good everything is on track | 16:10 |
| alexpilotti | ah, spoke with Marc as well lately, there's a very interesting topic to talk about for transparent console authentication | 16:10 |
| russellb | rdp console right? | 16:10 |
| primeministerp | russellb: yes | 16:10 |
| alexpilotti | russellb: hi there! | 16:10 |
| russellb | k | 16:10 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: yes we've been talking a bunch, I'm going to try to dig up some info fo rhim | 16:10 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: we should chat more later | 16:10 |
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| alexpilotti | russellb: was just reporting that the BP is already amost completely merged and only one Nova patch is missing | 16:11 |
| primeministerp | i have some bits to add on different things | 16:11 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: do you have anything else? | 16:11 |
| alexpilotti | nope, that's it for today's status! | 16:11 |
| primeministerp | kk | 16:12 |
| primeministerp | thx | 16:12 |
| primeministerp | #topic ironic | 16:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ironic (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:12 | |
| primeministerp | any of the ironic folks around? | 16:12 |
| primeministerp | lifeless: ping | 16:12 |
| primeministerp | anyway some testing was done on the bits I started way back | 16:12 |
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| primeministerp | I appoligize for my total lack of dropping the ball | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | I am totally tapped from a "my physical resources perspective" | 16:13 |
| alexpilotti | nice, looking forward! | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | however we'll get to it | 16:14 |
| primeministerp | i promise | 16:14 |
| primeministerp | next | 16:14 |
| primeministerp | #topic puppet modules | 16:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "puppet modules (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:14 | |
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| primeministerp | setting up some meetings in the coming weeks to discuss unit testing our modules | 16:14 |
| primeministerp | and getting resources aligned asap to do so | 16:15 |
| primeministerp | more to come on that, | 16:15 |
| primeministerp | #topic ci hardware | 16:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ci hardware (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:15 | |
| primeministerp | i've added 80+/- nodes to our ci last night | 16:15 |
| primeministerp | and have another 40 on the way | 16:16 |
| primeministerp | hopefully they'll all be ready for processing by friday | 16:16 |
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| primeministerp | that's all i have | 16:16 |
| primeministerp | for now | 16:16 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: anything to add? | 16:17 |
| primeministerp | #topic misc | 16:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "misc (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:17 | |
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| pnavarro | nothing to add, Peter | 16:17 |
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| primeministerp | ok then | 16:17 |
| primeministerp | meeting ending | 16:17 |
| primeministerp | thx everyone | 16:17 |
| primeministerp | #endmeeting | 16:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:17 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 18 16:17:57 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:17 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2014/hyper_v.2014-02-18-16.00.html | 16:18 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2014/hyper_v.2014-02-18-16.00.txt | 16:18 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2014/hyper_v.2014-02-18-16.00.log.html | 16:18 |
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| boris-42_ | Hi one more time hughsaunders rediskin miarmak julienvey stannie tnurlygayanov tzabal jroovers|afk jaypipes mkoderer | 17:05 |
| boris-42_ | #startmeeting Rally | 17:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 18 17:05:35 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is boris-42_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:05 |
| boris-42_ | miarmak ping | 17:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rally' | 17:05 |
| boris-42_ | Hi everybody | 17:05 |
| miarmak | Hi | 17:05 |
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| boris-42_ | seems like I have some issues | 17:05 |
| boris-42_ | Hi one more time hughsaunders rediskin miarmak julienvey stannie tnurlygayanov tzabal jroovers|afk jaypipes mkoderer | 17:06 |
| msdubov | boris-42_ hi | 17:06 |
| boris-42_ | nkhare ping | 17:06 |
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| nkhare | boris-42_, pong | 17:07 |
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| * boris-42_ writing todays topics | 17:07 | |
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| tnurlygayanov___ | Hi | 17:08 |
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| boris-42_ | Okay todays topics | 17:10 |
| boris-42_ | 1. Benchmarking refactoring | 17:10 |
| boris-42_ | 2. Benchmarks in VMs | 17:10 |
| boris-42_ | 3. Deployments (Multinode/Bugfixes/LXC) | 17:10 |
| boris-42_ | 4. Results processing (Graphics) | 17:10 |
| boris-42_ | 5. Verification updates | 17:10 |
| boris-42_ | #topic 1. Benchmarking refactoring | 17:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "1. Benchmarking refactoring (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:10 | |
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| boris-42_ | msdubov could you introduce us, what happened during the last week and what we are going to do on this | 17:11 |
| boris-42_ | msdubov I will find link to the doucment | 17:11 |
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| boris-42_ | #link https://docs.google.com/a/mirantis.com/document/d/1LYUAHkZQD8W7dtlj2I3PDA6x67TiD3AMnSWG6ljsups/edit | 17:12 |
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| boris-42_ | msdubov are you typing?) | 17:12 |
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| msdubov | boris-42_ Well I thikk it's better to see the weekly updates page on wiki :) | 17:12 |
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| boris-42_ | msdubov nope | 17:12 |
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| boris-42_ | msdubov it is not better | 17:12 |
| boris-42_ | msdubov just say in couple of words | 17:12 |
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| boris-42_ | eyerediskin ping | 17:13 |
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| rediskin | sup | 17:13 |
| boris-42_ | msdubov is trying to say high level view of benchmarking refactoring | 17:14 |
| boris-42_ | msdubov pls just go through all points | 17:14 |
| boris-42_ | msdubov so we will be able to discuss them | 17:14 |
| msdubov | boris-42_ OK wait a minute pls | 17:14 |
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| msdubov | Well the fisrt thing is the reimplementation of different benchmarking strategies via subclassing | 17:16 |
| msdubov | This makes the code way moreclean | 17:17 |
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| msdubov | Also we've added support for the so-called "user" endpoints | 17:18 |
| msdubov | i.e. endpoints withou admin permissions | 17:18 |
| msdubov | But they are not fully integra ted yet | 17:18 |
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| boris-42_ | msdubov okay let's speed up this discussion | 17:20 |
| boris-42_ | msdubov point 1 from that document | 17:20 |
| boris-42_ | Improving scenario input args validation: | 17:20 |
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| boris-42_ | jroovers said that probably there will be some cases | 17:21 |
| boris-42_ | when you need to check for every single user | 17:21 |
| boris-42_ | My concern is that verification should be very quick | 17:21 |
| boris-42_ | and in case when we are creating 5k tmp users validation could take for a while | 17:21 |
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| msdubov | boris-42_ you mean different user types? | 17:22 |
| boris-42_ | nope | 17:22 |
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| msdubov | will they be really so different? | 17:22 |
| boris-42_ | in case of network they will be a bit different | 17:22 |
| msdubov | boris-42_ what then? | 17:22 |
| boris-42_ | in different tenants | 17:22 |
| boris-42_ | so probably we should add new type | 17:22 |
| boris-42_ | so we will have TYPE.tennant | 17:22 |
| boris-42_ | tenant | 17:23 |
| boris-42_ | It will run for every tenant 1 time | 17:23 |
| boris-42_ | it should be actually used only for network validator | 17:23 |
| boris-42_ | so we will be able to run from 1 users, for 1 user from every tenant | 17:23 |
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| boris-42_ | and from admin | 17:24 |
| boris-42_ | I think it will cover most situation and will be pretty optimal | 17:24 |
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| boris-42_ | any thoughts?) | 17:24 |
| boris-42_ | miarmak rediskin ^ | 17:24 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders ^ | 17:24 |
| msdubov | boris-42_ are there already network validators implemented? | 17:25 |
| tnurlygayanov___ | looks good but probably we can make it more agile | 17:25 |
| tnurlygayanov___ | with the ability to configure count of users/tenants and etc. | 17:26 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ could you make some case?) | 17:26 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ where this complexity will be used actually? | 17:26 |
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| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ are you typing?) | 17:27 |
| tnurlygayanov___ | so we can have the users with different roles in one tenant | 17:27 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ nope | 17:28 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ because we are generating them with one role | 17:28 |
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| tnurlygayanov___ | hm, ok. | 17:28 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ in case of procreated user | 17:28 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ we have to test for all users | 17:28 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ because of roles and so on | 17:28 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ so I think this is a good step for start | 17:28 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ if we will support generating users with different roles | 17:29 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ then okay=) | 17:29 |
| boris-42_ | #topic 1.2 Running benchmarks with pre-created non-admin users | 17:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "1.2 Running benchmarks with pre-created non-admin users (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:29 | |
| boris-42_ | ^ okay msdubov prepared all pathes, but they are waiting for improving validation | 17:29 |
| tnurlygayanov___ | yes, I agree, this is good for "start" and we can improve these scenarios in the future | 17:30 |
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| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ yep | 17:30 |
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| boris-42_ | #topic 1.3 Improve scenario pluggability | 17:30 |
| msdubov | Yep and I've issued a new, related, patch that refactors osclients a bit | 17:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "1.3 Improve scenario pluggability (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:30 | |
| boris-42_ | Okay to improve scenario pluggability we should make changes to existing confi | 17:30 |
| boris-42_ | msdubov tnurlygayanov___ rediskin miarmak are everybody agree with it? | 17:31 |
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| miarmak | I am looking this patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/67720 and I have 1 question. | 17:31 |
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| boris-42_ | miarmak so ask it=) | 17:31 |
| tnurlygayanov___ | what changes in config? | 17:32 |
| miarmak | here we have endpoints in list and what if we will provide severel admins credentials? by mistake or smth like this | 17:32 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ take a look at document | 17:32 |
| tnurlygayanov___ | ok | 17:32 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ point 3.1 | 17:32 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ new format of task config | 17:32 |
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| miarmak | it's not enough clear for me | 17:33 |
| boris-42_ | miarmak it is actually okay | 17:33 |
| hughsaunders | hi all | 17:33 |
| boris-42_ | miarmak to provide N admins | 17:33 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders hi=) | 17:33 |
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| miarmak | hughsaunders: hello) | 17:33 |
| boris-42_ | miarmak then it will chose them randomly and run rally as a from admin | 17:33 |
| hughsaunders | hey miarmak boris-42_, sorry late busy week! | 17:33 |
| boris-42_ | miarmak so with procreating all tmp users and so on | 17:33 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders no problems =) | 17:33 |
| tnurlygayanov___ | boris-42_: yes, looks good | 17:34 |
| miarmak | boris-42_: oh, okey, thanks) | 17:34 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders we are discussing new task config at the moment | 17:34 |
| hughsaunders | cool | 17:34 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders so what do you think about new task config?) | 17:35 |
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| tnurlygayanov___ | boris-42_: "cloud_config" block is unclear | 17:35 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ agree | 17:35 |
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| tnurlygayanov___ | what we want to describe in this block? | 17:35 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ hughsaunders miarmak msdubov variants | 17:35 |
| boris-42_ | we are describing all operation that will be in "init" | 17:36 |
| hughsaunders | resource_creation ? | 17:36 |
| boris-42_ | cloud_init | 17:36 |
| boris-42_ | ? | 17:36 |
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| boris-42_ | because there will be as well network setup and probably some other stuff | 17:36 |
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| tnurlygayanov___ | setup_configuration | 17:37 |
| hughsaunders | yep, so it describes the resources (users, tenants, networks, images?) that will be created for use in that run | 17:37 |
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| tnurlygayanov___ | and need to move this block up | 17:37 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders something like thath | 17:37 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ where? | 17:37 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ why? | 17:37 |
| tnurlygayanov___ | need to move 'setup; block before 'scenario args' and other block to show that this action will be the fisrt | 17:38 |
| tnurlygayanov___ | *first | 17:38 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ it is actually JSON=) | 17:38 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ order doesn't matter | 17:38 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ but agree it will be better for wiki | 17:39 |
| tnurlygayanov___ | yes | 17:39 |
| boris-42_ | so name? | 17:39 |
| boris-42_ | setup_config / cloud_config / resource_config | 17:39 |
| hughsaunders | I still like resource_creation, as it describes whats actually happening | 17:39 |
| hughsaunders | or resource_config, that works for me also | 17:39 |
| miarmak | cloud_config imho better) | 17:40 |
| tnurlygayanov___ | so, setup links to Python-unittests pattern ) | 17:40 |
| boris-42_ | fuu = )lol | 17:41 |
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| boris-42_ | we are not able to decide the right name for it=) | 17:41 |
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| miarmak | =) | 17:41 |
| hughsaunders | load_generator --> run_configuration | 17:41 |
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| tnurlygayanov___ | preconditions maybe. | 17:42 |
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| hughsaunders | tnurlygayanov___: that implies things that must be setup before the task is started | 17:43 |
| hughsaunders | tnurlygayanov___: rather than resources rally will create for the task? | 17:43 |
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| boris-42_ | so okay I added all variants | 17:44 |
| boris-42_ | to doc | 17:44 |
| boris-42_ | let discuss other things=) | 17:44 |
| hughsaunders | :) | 17:44 |
| boris-42_ | and continue discussion of this in rally caht=) | 17:44 |
| hughsaunders | boris-42_: random.choice() | 17:44 |
| boris-42_ | ya something like that=) | 17:44 |
| tnurlygayanov___ | )) | 17:44 |
| boris-42_ | #topic Move load_generator validation to scenario runners | 17:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Move load_generator validation to scenario runners (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:44 | |
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| boris-42_ | okay this is the last blocker to make scenario runners totally pluggable | 17:45 |
| boris-42_ | so we will add just method to scenario runner aka validate | 17:45 |
| boris-42_ | and send this part "load_generator" | 17:45 |
| boris-42_ | to it and check that it pass | 17:45 |
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| boris-42_ | so every scenario runner will be able to override it and use own schema | 17:46 |
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| boris-42_ | (e.g. in deployment stuff0 | 17:46 |
| boris-42_ | I think it's ok approach?) | 17:46 |
| boris-42_ | somebody?) | 17:47 |
| tnurlygayanov___ | now we use different validators for each parameter | 17:47 |
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| * hughsaunders looks in code | 17:47 | |
| tnurlygayanov___ | and how it will workk after this change? | 17:48 |
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| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ now we have spaghetti | 17:48 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ in benchmark engine | 17:48 |
| tnurlygayanov___ | we will have only one method .validate() | 17:48 |
| tnurlygayanov___ | yes | 17:48 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ yep that will use specify for scenario runner json schema | 17:48 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ and probably specify validate() implantation | 17:49 |
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| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/rally/benchmark/runners/continuous.py#L24 | 17:49 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ in this class you will just add new method | 17:49 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ validate() that is specific for ContinuousScenarioRunner | 17:49 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ so instance of this scenario runner will be chased if you specify type: "continuous" | 17:50 |
| tnurlygayanov___ | but how we will validate different test scenaries with different parameters using only one method? | 17:50 |
| hughsaunders | boris-42_: ahh, I understand, so each scenario runner can validate its own config block, and therefore require different parameters | 17:50 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders yep | 17:50 |
| tnurlygayanov___ | hm | 17:50 |
| hughsaunders | ok, makes sense to me | 17:50 |
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| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/rally/benchmark/engine.py#L101-L121 | 17:51 |
| tnurlygayanov___ | we will use different runners for scenaries with different parameters? | 17:51 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ we have this spaghetti | 17:51 |
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| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ different scneariorunners already now have different parameters | 17:51 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ continue accept always "active_users" and periodical accepts "period" | 17:52 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ so load_generator parameters are different | 17:52 |
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| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ for different load generators | 17:52 |
| tnurlygayanov___ | ok | 17:52 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___so only laod_generator knows how to validate them | 17:52 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ so in benchmark engine we will get proper scenario runner using "type" | 17:53 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ and call validate() | 17:53 |
| tnurlygayanov___ | yes, now it is clear, thank you ) | 17:53 |
| boris-42_ | so everybody agree with this chage? | 17:53 |
| boris-42_ | #topic Stress execution | 17:54 |
| boris-42_ | 17:54 | |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Stress execution (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:54 | |
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| boris-42_ | Okay here we have to make as well changes | 17:54 |
| boris-42_ | in config | 17:54 |
| boris-42_ | are everybody agree with them? | 17:54 |
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| hughsaunders | boris-42_: yep | 17:55 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders yep so about stroing results | 17:55 |
| tnurlygayanov___ | we will use asynchronous engine for stress tests? | 17:55 |
| msdubov | boris-42_ yep | 17:55 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ nope | 17:55 |
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| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ all steps one by one | 17:56 |
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| tnurlygayanov___ | and where we can describe the scenaries for this stress test? | 17:57 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ first you are running for N active user then for N+step | 17:57 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ ? | 17:57 |
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| tnurlygayanov___ | hm, I found. | 17:57 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ {“start”: 2, “stop”: 10, “step”: 1, “max_failure_rate”: 0.8} | 17:57 |
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| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ this is the same as adding in array N times | 17:57 |
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| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ full description of benchmark | 17:58 |
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| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ so it will produce N separated benchmarks | 17:58 |
| tnurlygayanov___ | looks like we write incorrect JSON with '|' | 17:58 |
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| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ lol | 17:58 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov___ it is "OR" | 17:58 |
| tnurlygayanov___ | ok ) | 17:58 |
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| boris-42_ | it means that in that field you are able to use different | 17:59 |
| boris-42_ | syntax | 17:59 |
| boris-42_ | so | 17:59 |
| boris-42_ | I think that stress execution should be stored as a one task | 17:59 |
| hughsaunders | 30 seconds | 17:59 |
| boris-42_ | we can continue in Rally chat | 17:59 |
| boris-42_ | #endmeeting | 17:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 18 17:59:59 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-02-18-17.05.html | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-02-18-17.05.txt | 18:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-02-18-17.05.log.html | 18:00 |
| dolphm | ayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, fmarco76: ping | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | hey | 18:00 |
| dolphm | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:00 |
| stevemar | ahoy | 18:00 |
| bknudson | dolphm: hi | 18:00 |
| dstanek | hi | 18:00 |
| fmarco76 | hello | 18:00 |
| marekd | elo | 18:00 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, o/ | 18:00 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, \o | 18:00 |
| morganfainberg | \o/ ? | 18:00 |
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| marekd | \o/ | 18:00 |
| ayoung | Yo | 18:00 |
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| henrynash | Hi Ho | 18:01 |
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| dolphm | #startmeeting keystone | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 18 18:01:36 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:01 |
| dolphm | #topic Reminder: Icehouse feature proposal freeze TODAY (features must be in code review TODAY) | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reminder: Icehouse feature proposal freeze TODAY (features must be in code review TODAY) (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| bknudson | so new reviews for features get -2? | 18:02 |
| dolphm | we look to be in good shape for that goal ^ | 18:02 |
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| dolphm | so, new *feature* implementations proposed after today will be -2'd until we open for juno | 18:02 |
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| stevemar | bknudson, yup | 18:02 |
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| gyee | \o | 18:02 |
| nkinder | o/ | 18:02 |
| dolphm | which is likely 3-4 weeks from today, IIRC (it's not a hard date, though) | 18:02 |
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| dolphm | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/icehouse-3 | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, thats once RC is cut, right? | 18:03 |
| marekd | dolphm: juno-1 ? | 18:03 |
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| dolphm | morganfainberg: yes, RC1 is cut and we re-open for juno-1 on the same day | 18:03 |
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| stevemar | morganfainberg, yes, once RC1 is cut, thats when juno-1 starts (roughly...) | 18:03 |
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| topol | o/ | 18:03 |
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| fabiog | o/ | 18:03 |
| dolphm | re-open master, specifically | 18:03 |
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| joesavak | o/ | 18:04 |
| stevemar | info: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Icehouse_Release_Schedule | 18:04 |
| stevemar | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Icehouse_Release_Schedule | 18:04 |
| dolphm | we're in pretty good shape for BP's, but we have several bugs that don't have assignees yet | 18:04 |
| dolphm | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1276244 | 18:04 |
| ayoung | bugs can go in after feature freeze, just depends on scope of the solution | 18:04 |
| dolphm | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1279849 | 18:04 |
| dolphm | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1275615 | 18:04 |
| dolphm | they at least need to be investigated before i3 | 18:04 |
| dolphm | ayoung: right, but we need to know who's able to work on what ASAP | 18:05 |
| ayoung | IE compressed tokens will be OK iff the solution is completely within keystone client and causes no regression. Probably though that will wait. | 18:05 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: and get an idea for what's going to be an RC-blocker or not ASAP | 18:05 |
| dolphm | ayoung: i'd like to keep trying for that on the side, prior to i3 | 18:05 |
| dstanek | i just took the password one since that is basically what i'm working on now | 18:05 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, yep, think it is do-able, just going to finish revocation events first | 18:05 |
| dstanek | that's 1279849 for those of you playing from home | 18:06 |
| henrynash | dolphm: I'll take he v2 tenant one | 18:06 |
| dolphm | dstanek: we also have a related security vulnerability that was reported recently - remind me to link you to that after the meeting | 18:06 |
| henrynash | https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1276244 | 18:06 |
| dstanek | dolphm: ok | 18:06 |
| dolphm | henrynash: thanks! assign it to yourself please | 18:06 |
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| morganfainberg | i'll poke at the ipv6 thing | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | or dual stacked, or ... whatever that actually is | 18:07 |
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| ayoung | IPv6...nice | 18:07 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: bknudson: i figured one of you might jump on that :) | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | yeah just grabbed it | 18:07 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: should cram ipv6 into the bug title if possible | 18:08 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, keep it low priority. very few people wilk lcry if that doesn't make Icehouse | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | i'll bounce anything i run across against bknudson | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, it's med, leaving it as such. | 18:08 |
| dolphm | ayoung: ++ it's a weird hole in ipv6 support though | 18:08 |
| dolphm | so that's everything assigned then | 18:08 |
| ayoung | Oh, don't get me wrong...I think IPv6 is critical. Just not certain if we will have it completely even with this fix | 18:08 |
| dolphm | ayoung: yeah | 18:09 |
| dolphm | #topic Reminder: Icehouse feature freeze March 4th (features must be merged) | 18:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reminder: Icehouse feature freeze March 4th (features must be merged) (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:09 | |
| dolphm | so we now have exactly two weeks to land all of the outstanding blueprints | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | i think we're on solid track for that | 18:09 |
| stevemar | #link for outstanding blueprints: https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/icehouse-3 | 18:09 |
| dolphm | so for EVERYONE (core or not), if you have free review bandwidth, focus on changes linked to from here: | 18:09 |
| dolphm | GOTO stevemar's link | 18:09 |
| ayoung | ++ | 18:09 |
| stevemar | ctrl+f "needs code review" | 18:10 |
| ayoung | is there anything outside of Keystone reviews that are critical to us as ell? | 18:10 |
| ayoung | well | 18:10 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i haven't seen much at the moment. | 18:10 |
| dolphm | last i counted we need to be landing about 2 bp-targeted patches a day on average-- i think that's reasonable if we land a bunch of the lower level ones in the next couple days, so we have more time to iterate over the bigger ones like saml consumption and token revocation events | 18:11 |
| ayoung | nkinder are there any of the LDAP bugs you've seen that should be targetted at I3? | 18:11 |
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| ayoung | he's been beating on LDAP lately. We can take the bugs as they are fixed, but would be nice to know which should be targetted. | 18:11 |
| dolphm | ayoung: reviews are highest common priority for sure | 18:11 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, ++ | 18:11 |
| stevemar | we'll have 9 in code review once topol 's audit work goes in, it's gating now | 18:11 |
| dolphm | ayoung: blueprints first because i'm selfish, and i3 targetted bugs second | 18:11 |
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| ayoung | ++ | 18:12 |
| nkinder | ayoung: Nothing huge. There's one I have submitted for review this morning. | 18:12 |
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| dolphm | then we have a bug squashing party for a few weeks :) | 18:12 |
| henrynash | dolphm: one of mine (bug) wasn't correctly targeted, just updated: #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1226171 | 18:12 |
| nkinder | ayoung: there's also one that needs to be filed about LDAP syntax violations, which richm is working on. I think he's in testing, so it's getting close. | 18:13 |
| dolphm | henrynash: sounds good | 18:13 |
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| dolphm | nkinder: if it should block icehouse's release, be sure to target i3 | 18:13 |
| stevemar | pinging mhu for status on limited use trusts | 18:13 |
| ayoung | henrynash, how are we looking on the "multiple backends" thing? | 18:13 |
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| ayoung | is that going to make it? Lots of people are asking for splitting service users from the rest of LDAP | 18:14 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, henrynash, is that a feature or a bug fix at this point? | 18:14 |
| henrynash | ayoung: review is up, just had to rebase | 18:14 |
| ayoung | ++ | 18:14 |
| dolphm | cool | 18:14 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, do we have a bug targeted i3? | 18:14 |
| nkinder | dolphm: I'm unclear on the exact criteria for a "blocker", but we can discuss that after the meeting. | 18:14 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: yes, that's the one I listed above | 18:14 |
| morganfainberg | ooooh | 18:15 |
| henrynash | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1226171 | 18:15 |
| dolphm | nkinder: worth defining it now for everyone... | 18:15 |
| dstanek | i have some easy reviews for rotating passwords that need to be looked at | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | yeah, i should read more :P | 18:15 |
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| henrynash | morganfainberg, ayoung: review of it is here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74214/ | 18:15 |
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| dolphm | blocker bugs tend to be new for the current release, critical/high/medium impact, and would impede adoption of icehouse in some way | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, thanks! | 18:16 |
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| dolphm | e.g. "I can't use icehouse because this config option doesn't work anymore." | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, aha i didn't see it because i was looking at the grant stuff | 18:16 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: I'll definitely let you off with that excuse :-) | 18:17 |
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| dolphm | lol | 18:17 |
| dolphm | #topic Switch from #openstack-dev to #openstack-keystone ? | 18:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Switch from #openstack-dev to #openstack-keystone ? (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:17 | |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, i'll look over both of those today | 18:17 |
| topol | morganfainberg always has the right answer... a smooth operator | 18:17 |
| nkinder | dolphm: ok, that makes sense | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | there has been some complaints and requests that we do that. | 18:17 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: thx | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | move to the new channel that is. | 18:17 |
| dolphm | so, as everyone knows we've tried for a long time to not hide in a project-specific channel, as keystone discussions tend to impact the entire community | 18:17 |
| dolphm | but we've made #openstack-dev unusable/distracting for the broader community | 18:18 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: i see people's point, lots of people would lurk in -keystone anyway | 18:18 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, yes | 18:18 |
| topol | dolphm +++ | 18:18 |
| dolphm | if we switch to #openstack-keystone for project-specific discussions, we should still raise to #openstack-dev for design discussions that have community-wide impact (say, renaming projects back to tenants) | 18:18 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++ | 18:19 |
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| dolphm | but otherwise, i'm not opposed to ducking into #openstack-keystone for the majority of the time | 18:19 |
| topol | how can folks "lurk in multiple channels"??? | 18:19 |
| dolphm | i was curious if anyone had any strong opinion either way | 18:19 |
| dolphm | topol: does your client not support more than one channel? | 18:19 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: if people care then it's no difference to me | 18:19 |
| topol | well if we are annoying folks we should move | 18:19 |
| morganfainberg | i think we should just say be sure to be in both, and any topic can be pointed as a "hey this should be -dev topic and rope in others" or go rope in others. | 18:19 |
| topol | I use chatzilla. I get lots of tabs | 18:20 |
| jamielennox | topol: really? i think i have about 10 on freenode, more internally | 18:20 |
| lbragstad | it will also give people a place to find keystone folks so, instead of just saying 'check openstack-dev' | 18:20 |
| dolphm | new devs will surely pop up in -dev, even if they're focused on keystone | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | yep. | 18:20 |
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| topol | something beter than chatzilla? Im so old school | 18:20 |
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| ayoung | openstack-dev will have nothing but crickets without Keystone | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | i'm happy to get eavesdrop etc added to openstack-keystone (I registeted it to help direct people over to dev a while ago) | 18:20 |
| ayoung | chirp | 18:20 |
| dolphm | ayoung: that might change after we give it up and people find more room there for cross-project chatter | 18:21 |
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| ayoung | works for me | 18:21 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: i think i'm liking the idea more and more | 18:21 |
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| morganfainberg | i'll get all the bits takencare of for openstack-keystone today. | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | since i own the channel :) | 18:21 |
| dolphm | alrighty then | 18:21 |
| dolphm | #action everyone! switch to #openstack-keystone for project-local chatter | 18:21 |
| stevemar | YAY | 18:21 |
| dolphm | #action morganfainberg to revise the channel topic over there so we're not all confused | 18:22 |
| dstanek | topol: weechat or irssi if you are old school | 18:22 |
| gyee | s/project-local// | 18:22 |
| topol | its like dad bought us a car at age 16 | 18:22 |
| dolphm | gyee: fair enough | 18:22 |
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| morganfainberg | i'll also auto voice keystone-core just so it's easy to find us in there. | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | not that ti'll have any impact | 18:22 |
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| dolphm | #action morganfainberg to do additional IRC things | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | just sticks us at the top. | 18:22 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, now you are pushing it :) | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, LOL | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, ;) | 18:23 |
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| dolphm | #topic open discussion | 18:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:23 | |
| morganfainberg | gyee, you know you like it | 18:23 |
| ayoung | When do we start adding topics for the Juno summit? | 18:23 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: no clue | 18:23 |
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| ayoung | BTW...Juno summit hotels list is up, invites are out. If you are going, get your logistics in order | 18:23 |
| dolphm | ayoung: seems like that starts after i3's release date, no? | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | I'm at the Omni for the hotel | 18:24 |
| dolphm | ayoung: ooh, thanks. i haven't seen that yet | 18:24 |
| topol | hotels are fillling up | 18:24 |
| topol | big time | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | you can't go wrong with either of the main hotels | 18:24 |
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| morganfainberg | omni is across the street from the conv. center | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | i recommend it if you want less of a walk | 18:24 |
| lbragstad | Omni and Westin are both packed... | 18:24 |
| stevemar | topol, where are you at? | 18:24 |
| lbragstad | last I checked | 18:24 |
| dolphm | omni it si | 18:24 |
| ayoung | we got jamielennox approved to go, and I finally get to meet nkinder face to face. RH will be well represented in all things identity and security | 18:24 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: boo | 18:24 |
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| lbragstad | :( | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | lbragstad, it might be the room block is taken, not booked up | 18:24 |
| lbragstad | ahh | 18:25 |
| ayoung | there is a link throgh the summit page, | 18:25 |
| topol | Im at the Westin Peachtree. Got some great memories of tha place from college parties | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | if you can afford a non-discounted (conf. room) you might get omni or westin still | 18:25 |
| ayoung | don't contact directly | 18:25 |
| topol | lbrgastad dont use the internal tool. call hotel directly | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | topol, i almost went with the westin, i just wanted less of a walk in the morning | 18:25 |
| topol | or book via summit site | 18:25 |
| ayoung | http://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/openstack-summit-may-2014-atlanta-tickets-10207692483 | 18:25 |
| lbragstad | topol: ok | 18:25 |
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| dstanek | where are the links to the hotels? | 18:26 |
| topol | internal tool says booked full. Ignore it | 18:26 |
| jamielennox | topol: which is fully booked/ | 18:26 |
| ayoung | looking | 18:26 |
| stevemar | dstanek, #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/openstack-summit-atlanta-2014/hotels/ | 18:26 |
| dstanek | thanks | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | lbragstad, you get to come to the summit too, right?! | 18:26 |
| topol | our internal tool said that they were booked and it was wrong | 18:27 |
| * lbragstad crosses fingers... | 18:27 | |
| ayoung | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/openstack-summit-atlanta-2014/hotels/ | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | topol, get lbragstad there!! :) | 18:27 |
| dolphm | stevemar: thanks | 18:27 |
| ayoung | too slow | 18:27 |
| topol | lbragstad should be going. he better let me know if he is told otherwise | 18:27 |
| nkinder | jamielennox: did you try going to the hotels through the summit site? | 18:27 |
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| nkinder | jamielennox: our internal tool said the hotels were booked too, but it works through the summit site link | 18:28 |
| jamielennox | nkinder: there had been lots of discussion, was going to talk about it today and book after - i hadn't seen anything full yet | 18:28 |
| topol | same team must build our internal tool :-) | 18:28 |
| topol | s | 18:28 |
| nkinder | internal tools FTL :) | 18:28 |
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| dolphm | westin appears to have space | 18:29 |
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| dolphm | topol: i use google's tool, personally. it's open source and supports all of the booking websites equally well in my experience | 18:30 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++ | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | if you are an amex/starwood member you can get good deals on westin | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | through amex or starwood site | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | fyi | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | but that is like airline rewards miles. | 18:32 |
| topol | yeah, wait till your company gets bigger and you'll find out what we mean by internal tool :-) that must be used if possible | 18:32 |
| topol | (its crappy) | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | topol, i used to have to deal with that stuff when i worked for Fox / MySpace | 18:32 |
| henrynash | topol: c/mon…..you don't love an IBM 360 UI ? | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | topol, i always found cheaper/better and applied for an exemption, never denied | 18:33 |
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| dolphm | morganfainberg: that's what i do today | 18:33 |
| topol | stop henrynash, stop :-) | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++ | 18:34 |
| ayoung | BTW, for the newer set: I've learned it is worth staying through the end of the Day Friday | 18:34 |
| ayoung | I'm flying out Saturday morning | 18:34 |
| stevemar | ayoung, ++ | 18:34 |
| dstanek | 10 min walk from the Westin doesn't seem bad | 18:34 |
| topol | keystone is always shoved to the last day cause dolph won't pay people off for us :-) | 18:34 |
| ayoung | Monday may be a wash...but plan on all of us just meeting up in the developer lounge and using Monday as the Keystone Hackfest day | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | ++ | 18:35 |
| dolphm | topol: we'll be distributed again, i hope | 18:35 |
| henrynash | dolphm, ayoung, morganfainberg: when we're done travel arranging…I do have a question on the multi-domain fix | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, sure thing | 18:35 |
| ayoung | fire away | 18:35 |
| stevemar | monday does seem like a wash | 18:35 |
| dolphm | we're also hoping to have a large chunk of time dedicated to cross-project sessions, which will be entirely new for the summit | 18:35 |
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| henrynash | so the fix only uses a "composite" ID (e.g. user_id + domain_id) IF you are using domain-specifc backends | 18:36 |
| henrynash | so no conversion of existing data into the composite ID format | 18:36 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, ++ | 18:37 |
| bknudson | is it like user_id@@domain_id? | 18:37 |
| ayoung | that was my suggestion | 18:37 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: so you can't switch from a single domain backend to multi-domain backend? | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, eventually i'd like to convert the data to be consistent. but i don't see a need to do that now | 18:37 |
| henrynash | is there any danger that you start single-domain and want to move multi-domain and need to modify existing IDs? | 18:37 |
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| morganfainberg | actually... that is a good point ^ | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, i already have that use case, move from single to multi backend | 18:37 |
| ayoung | dolphm, it would need to be deliberate, but if you have an LDAP set up in the main config file, it should still work | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, i have customers chomping at the bit for the multi backend | 18:38 |
| ayoung | a helper tool for migration can live outside the main code | 18:38 |
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| morganfainberg | i don't mind if we have some way to do it, but i don't want to hand-write migration | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | yeah, helper tool would be super | 18:38 |
| henrynash | dolphm: well, that's my concern…but by definition an you would have to migrate data from one bad | 18:38 |
| henrynash | oops | 18:38 |
| ayoung | damn you autocorrect | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | it feels like we could write keystone-manage code to do it | 18:39 |
| henrynash | so normal case is: you add in a domain for each external LDAP you are using | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, ayoung, dolphm, ^ | 18:39 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: that's how we handled diablo -> essex migrations | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | but def. not live-api | 18:39 |
| dolphm | keystone-manage dump_diablo > keystone-manage now_build_me_a_real_database | 18:39 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, can be done many ways. It is going to be a one time migration. We can punt on that until after the code works. It doesn't need to be a long term support thing | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, ++ | 18:40 |
| ayoung | we can even deprecate the LDAP in the main config file approach eventually | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | ok | 18:40 |
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| ayoung | so that people don't end up in this situation in thefuture | 18:40 |
| henrynash | I did consider just converting all the data up front and always running in composite ID mode | 18:40 |
| dolphm | ayoung: ++ i'd rather only have one way to support ldap identity backends in juno | 18:40 |
| henrynash | there would be almost no change to the new code….just need yo add the migration | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, if it isn't a huge effort, that would be good. but if it jeapordizes the code / review /etc not worth it | 18:41 |
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| morganfainberg | henrynash, i like having consistent data so no special cases needed | 18:41 |
| dolphm | henrynash: a tool to "render" out the current LDAP config to a discrete file would be nice too | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | less complexity | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++++++++ | 18:41 |
| henrynash | the consequence would be, however, that everyones userID would "change" over the upgrade | 18:41 |
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| dolphm | right, as long as that's opt-in on the deployer's part | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, yeah, don't auto-migrate | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | i think if we are doing that, we should make it optional for I, perhaps required for J or K? | 18:42 |
| ayoung | henrynash, will the existing code continue to work if yoiu enable the multi backend, or will it be either-or | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | as in "yo, this is chaning, but you don't have to yet" | 18:42 |
| ayoung | either-or isOK, so long as we are prepared for it | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | same as we do deprecation | 18:43 |
| henrynash | ayoung: what do yo mean by "code" | 18:43 |
| ayoung | and...will SQL and LDAP work together ? | 18:43 |
| henrynash | ayoung: yes, I test that | 18:43 |
| ayoung | henrynash, awsome...then we can move to testing LDAP in Gate | 18:43 |
| ayoung | IE, our defaulkt setup will be one SQL domain and one LDAP domain | 18:43 |
| dolphm | bknudson: can you follow up here - looks like all your concerns were addressed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/60741/ | 18:44 |
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| bknudson | dolphm: will look at it this afternoon. | 18:44 |
| dolphm | bknudson: thanks! | 18:44 |
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| morganfainberg | really quickly, on the topic of openstack-keystone, please register your name w/ nickserv (openstack-core) so I can give you rights to change topic etc | 18:45 |
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| bknudson | so we're not going to be able to create grants for users/groups that don't exist? | 18:46 |
| ayoung | bknudson, we should be able to, why do you say that? | 18:46 |
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| ayoung | is that from 60741? | 18:47 |
| bknudson | ayoung: I proposed a couple of changes to allow it in some cases which are now -2 | 18:47 |
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| ayoung | by whom? | 18:47 |
| bknudson | ayoung: e.g., https://review.openstack.org/#/c/72142/ | 18:47 |
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| bknudson | ayoung: and for groups: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/72144/ | 18:47 |
| bknudson | ayoung: it was dolphm! | 18:48 |
| ayoung | ah, dolph, so those changes are going to be essential for landing assignments for Federation. | 18:48 |
| ayoung | a user or group is not necessarily going to "exist" in the backend | 18:48 |
| dolphm | ayoung: but, they're not - at all | 18:48 |
| dolphm | ayoung: i'm not precluding have a sql identity backend for groups | 18:48 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: are you making a different assumption? | 18:49 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, my assumption is that, baseline, Federation should be treated as an identity backend with no enuemration | 18:49 |
| bknudson | I think it will create an inconsistency between v2 and v3 if we don't fix "create grant when no user" and group. | 18:49 |
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| bknudson | as in, you can do the grant using v2 api but can't do it with v3 api. | 18:50 |
| bknudson | I'd have to try it to be sure. | 18:50 |
| dolphm | ayoung: right, it's a trusted source of identity that we can't query | 18:50 |
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| dolphm | bknudson: if there's a discrepancy there, there shouldn't be | 18:51 |
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| ayoung | so if I am trying to create role assignments for my organization, I need to be able to do it even if I don't have, say the groups in my SAML assertion | 18:51 |
| ayoung | or explicit role assignment for users | 18:51 |
| bknudson | right, so need to decide whether we're going to allow it or not and make the fix either to v3 or v2. | 18:51 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: right, that's where mapping comes in | 18:51 |
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| ayoung | the second can be handled via mapping, of course, but there still we be no enumeration of groups from mapping, they will just magically appear when a user triggers the mapping | 18:52 |
| dolphm | ayoung: you can do whatever you want, and it's way more powerful than assigning roles to users (ephemeral or not) | 18:52 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: mapping isn't magical... it's quite explicit? | 18:52 |
| bknudson | are we going to validate that the group exists when you create the mapping? | 18:52 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I mean that there is no "list groups from mapping" functions | 18:52 |
| dolphm | stevemar: marekd: ^ i don't recall where that's validated | 18:52 |
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| dolphm | i assume it'd be after processing, during token generation? | 18:53 |
| ayoung | and I think it is going to confuse people to say "no direct assignment of roles to federated users" | 18:53 |
| stevemar | dolphm, it should be done in the current patch that we're working on, but it's not | 18:53 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: i don't think it is | 18:53 |
| ayoung | that is really making people rethink how they do things, and will be a lot of overhead for dealing with one-offs | 18:53 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: and yes, it's a different mental model because the users are just bags of attributes, not identities | 18:54 |
| ayoung | If only one person is going to get a role you need to modify mapping, group, and role-assignemnt | 18:54 |
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| ayoung | lets just drop the hard and fast rule that we check for people in the identity backend and then it works across the board. Retrainig users is ard | 18:54 |
| ayoung | hard | 18:55 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: right- you'd identify the attribute that makes them have the authorization, and map them into the appropriate group | 18:55 |
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| ayoung | we still need to enumerate groups | 18:56 |
| dolphm | ayoung: identity_api.list_groups() ? | 18:56 |
| ayoung | nope | 18:56 |
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| ayoung | won;t work when groups are mapped from federation | 18:56 |
| dolphm | ayoung: i don't follow | 18:57 |
| dolphm | ayoung: mapping engine outputs a set of groups | 18:57 |
| ayoung | to what identity backend? | 18:57 |
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| ayoung | do we treat mapping as the identity backend? | 18:57 |
| dolphm | ayoung: i'm not really sure it matters for icehouse - it's up to the deployer | 18:58 |
| bknudson | mapping has to generate user IDs with domain ID in them for multi-ldap. | 18:58 |
| dolphm | and no, mapping is not an identity backend | 18:58 |
| ayoung | dolphm, we won't be able to assign groups to APIs if we check for the existence of groups in the identity backend | 18:58 |
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| stevemar | dolphm, bknudson actually, we do verify groups exist, well, we query it anyway, when trying to get roles to assign | 18:58 |
| dolphm | bknudson: you mean group IDs with domain IDs in them? | 18:58 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, 2min | 18:58 |
| dolphm | bknudson: because the user IDs it produces are just garbage for logging, AFAICT | 18:59 |
| dolphm | there's no use case for them | 18:59 |
| dolphm | stevemar: that's what i figured | 18:59 |
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| dolphm | morganfainberg: thanks | 18:59 |
| bknudson | dolphm: right, it'll be group ID that includes domain ID... probably just hard-coded in the mapping. | 18:59 |
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| * dolphm switching to #openstack-keystone :D | 19:00 | |
| dolphm | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| lbragstad | ++ | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 18 19:00:03 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-02-18-18.01.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-02-18-18.01.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-02-18-18.01.log.html | 19:00 |
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| jeblair | hello infra folks | 19:00 |
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| fungi | howdy | 19:00 |
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| pleia2 | o/ | 19:00 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 19:00 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:00 |
| clarkb | hitehre | 19:00 |
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| jeblair | mordred, anteaya: ping | 19:00 |
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| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 18 19:01:09 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-02-11-19.01.html | 19:01 |
| jeblair | so we have a packed agenda and i'm sure we won't get through it. :( | 19:01 |
| jeblair | actions from last meeting are not very interesting | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #topic trove testing | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "trove testing (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/69501/ | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | I think that's still the status of that | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #topic Tripleo testing (lifeless, pleia2, fungi) | 19:02 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I'd like to have 2 mins for savanna testing/infra update at the end of meeting if possible | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tripleo testing (lifeless, pleia2, fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| lifeless | hi | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | so the news here is that we have pulled the tripleo cloud from nodepool and zuul | 19:03 |
| jeblair | we've identified two specific improvements we need to make on the infra side to deal with a cloud that may not always be available | 19:03 |
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| jeblair | this week is the feature proposal freeze | 19:04 |
| pleia2 | I don't really have any specific updates otherwise, just chugging along on other pieces | 19:04 |
| jeblair | and the week after that is the feature freeze | 19:04 |
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| jeblair | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Icehouse_Release_Schedule | 19:04 |
| SergeyLukjanov | my option is to try to polish cloud (HA is prefered) using 3rd party testing | 19:05 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | jaypipes makes a good doc about how to setup it | 19:05 |
| jeblair | because it's a critical time for openstack development, i think we should wait until after i3 (march 6) before we add it back | 19:05 |
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| jeblair | we generally try to soft-freeze our systems around these times | 19:05 |
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| fungi | which means now is the time when we're cramming to finalize scalability improvements to cope with the coming onslaught | 19:06 |
| jeblair | yes, that's why i was working yesterday. :/ | 19:06 |
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| lifeless | so there there are two problems AIUI | 19:07 |
| pleia2 | so our tripleo sprint is that week, hopefully the high bandwidth time we have then (mar 3-7) will put is in a good position to help with further bugs | 19:07 |
| lifeless | one is that there is a chicken and egg situation with stability | 19:07 |
| lifeless | the second is that we're now without CI | 19:07 |
| lifeless | for the feature freeze | 19:07 |
| lifeless | which is a pretty bad time to be without | 19:07 |
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| jeblair | lifeless: what's the chicken and egg situation? | 19:08 |
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| jeblair | lifeless: i thought the cloud that you were plugging into nodepool was supposed to be stable (eg, not necessarily CD, at least, not to start) | 19:08 |
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| lifeless | jeblair: to be stable we have to have worked through any emergent issues from being used in the infra workload (e.g. https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1271344 ) | 19:09 |
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| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1271344 in tripleo "neutron-dhcp-agent doesn't hand out leases for recently used addresses" [Critical,Triaged] | 19:09 |
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| lifeless | jeblair: to be added back you want us to be stable. | 19:09 |
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| lifeless | jeblair: so it is as far as we know stable | 19:09 |
| lifeless | jeblair: we're not changing it | 19:09 |
| lifeless | jeblair: not upgrading, not reconfiguring. | 19:10 |
| lifeless | jeblair: the two outages so far were a) I fucked up and deleted the damn thing | 19:10 |
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| jeblair | lifeless: so this isn't a case of deploying a new rev that was broken; but rather something that was thought to be stable was, after all, not; and that wasn't exposed except under load. | 19:10 |
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| lifeless | jeblair: and b) we encountered a love timebomb bug which we've now applied a workaround for so it won't come back | 19:10 |
| jeblair | lifeless: okay, i certainly understand that. a lot of infra isn't testable except under load either. | 19:10 |
| lifeless | jeblair: right | 19:10 |
| fungi | well, there was an outage a few weeks before the deletion too which lasted a couple days, when you replaced the previous test provider with the ci one | 19:10 |
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| lifeless | fungi: that was the 'robert deleted it' | 19:11 |
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| lifeless | fungi: the delay bringing it back was that I chose given all the variables t the time, to delay bringing it back by hand and fix automation to bring it back bigger | 19:11 |
| lifeless | fungi: which is why it now has 10 hypervisor nodes (each with ~96G of ram, 2TB of local disk) | 19:11 |
| fungi | well, there was something a few weeks prior to the deletion too. anyway i recall it wasn't something likely to recur | 19:11 |
| lifeless | fungi: that was the neutron bug I linked above | 19:12 |
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| lifeless | fungi: where you weren't getting IP addresses | 19:12 |
| fungi | ahh, yep | 19:12 |
| lifeless | anyhow, point is - this is a static deployment | 19:12 |
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| lifeless | specifically because a moving target would be bad | 19:12 |
| jeblair | lifeless: okay, thanks, that reassures me we are on the same page. and i'm more or less convinced that we're at the point that we should be experimenting with the tripleo cloud... | 19:13 |
| jeblair | lifeless: but having said that, i think part of experimentation is realizing when something doesn't work and backing off... | 19:13 |
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| lifeless | jeblair: so, if it wasn't working for unknown reasons I'd totally agree with you | 19:14 |
| jeblair | lifeless: so even when we get those two problems with nodepool and zuul sorted, is the period from now through i3 really a good time to be dealing with the churn from this, and finding the _next_ problem? | 19:14 |
| lifeless | jeblair: the benefits to tripleo are substantial; we hope the benefits to other programs will be too | 19:15 |
| lifeless | jeblair: there is a risk; perhaps we should talk about how we can mitigate it? | 19:15 |
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| fungi | also, was there an updated status/eta on the rh-provided region? | 19:16 |
| jeblair | lifeless: i'm mildly concerned about the infra load, but i'm more concerned with the potential impact to the operation of the gate during this time... | 19:16 |
| jeblair | as an example, having 50 jobs stuck in the check queue is counter to the expectations of people monitoring the overall throughput, looking from problems, etc. | 19:16 |
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| lifeless | fungi: dprince assures me its been escalated | 19:18 |
| SergeyLukjanov | jeblair, I remember that lifeless have a patch to move all this stuff to experimental-tripleo pipe | 19:18 |
| lifeless | fungi: but realistically it will still take a little time to bring up a ci-overcloud region there and address multi-region layout etc. | 19:18 |
| lifeless | fungi: I don't think we'll have multi-region live in the next two weeks. | 19:18 |
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| fungi | okay, just curious | 19:19 |
| lifeless | jeblair: yes, I can see that. Would making a tripleo-check queue specifically - same config etc, just only tripleo jobs in it - help with that? | 19:19 |
| lifeless | or check-tripleo | 19:19 |
| jeblair | SergeyLukjanov: i thought the experimental pipeline was for testing other projects (eg nova), but that tripleo would still want some check jobs | 19:19 |
| lifeless | jeblair: not as a long term strategy, but as a reduce-cognitive-load *in the event* that something goes wrong ? | 19:20 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | and there was an issue that nodepool couldn't start with offline provider | 19:21 |
| lifeless | SergeyLukjanov: yup, derekh was poking at that last night, I should have an update in a couple hours I expect | 19:21 |
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| jeblair | lifeless: a dedicated check queue may help with that and also work around the fact that the check queue is required for gate; which would help you in case of problems. | 19:21 |
| lifeless | jeblair: I presume thats basically the same patch as mine adding experimental-tripleo, + move the existing jobs from check -> check-tripleo ? | 19:22 |
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| jeblair | lifeless: yes. mind you, i'm only addressing the technical aspects, not the question of whether we should do this. | 19:22 |
| lifeless | also worth noting here while everyone is looking, there is a team of folk on the hook for supporting the ci-overcloud | 19:22 |
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| lifeless | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/tripleo-incubator/tree/tripleo-cloud/tripleo-cd-admins | 19:23 |
| lifeless | broad time zone coverage | 19:23 |
| lifeless | and all have access to every machines console via IPMI etc; the only thing the non-HP folk can't do is file datacentre tickets | 19:23 |
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| lifeless | (but at that point the cloud is clearly not 'in a little trouble', so you'd be facing a big outage then regardless) | 19:24 |
| SergeyLukjanov | and the full tz coverage in infra team to revert tripleo testing if it'll start failing | 19:24 |
| jeblair | lifeless: basically, i think that adding this right now is contrary to the soft-freeze that we try to do around milestones and releases. but it's a soft freeze and we can choose to waive it. | 19:24 |
| SergeyLukjanov | if it'll be needed | 19:24 |
| jeblair | lifeless: i'd like to get some others to weigh in on this | 19:24 |
| jeblair | lifeless: people who are likely to be affected. ttx, sdague, jog0, and perhaps some ptls. | 19:25 |
| anteaya | just from the point of view of having gone through a few feature freezes | 19:25 |
| jeblair | and, oh maybe some more people on the infra team :) | 19:25 |
| anteaya | I am for anything that stablizes the gate now and then introduces changes after ff | 19:26 |
| anteaya | we _will_ encounter unpredicted circumstances in the next two weeks | 19:26 |
| clarkb | the only major thing that bothers me is nodepool not being able to start properly when a cloud is gone | 19:26 |
| SergeyLukjanov | fwiw fix of nodepool to work with offline provider + check-tripleo pipeline are sounds like it'll not affect other projects => it's ok | 19:26 |
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| fungi | i'd mainly like to see the nodepool exceptions rooted out before readding providers, just because having everything stop when there's a provider outage (any provider) is sort of painful. the zuul job timeout patch seems less critical to bringing tripleo back online, as long as zuul's now able to drop those jobs when they're unconfigured | 19:26 |
| anteaya | we need to have the personal stress minimized to survive it | 19:26 |
| clarkb | I don't find the jobs that hangaround to be too bothersome as it only really affects tripleo anyways | 19:26 |
| clarkb | fungi: ya, agreed. If nodepool can be made more happy in the event of unexpected derp then it is fine from my end | 19:27 |
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| jeblair | so it seems like there's some consensus in infra that we'd be okay with the nodepool fix and dedicated tripleo pipelines as hard requirements; the zuul fix is something we should do soon, but not critical. | 19:29 |
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| jeblair | ttx isn't around today. i'd like to give jog0, sdague, and mtreinish a chance to weigh in since they would be affected by problems too. | 19:30 |
| fungi | agreed | 19:30 |
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| lifeless | ok. I'll put up the pipeline patch (merged with the experimental one I guess if that hasn't landed yet) | 19:30 |
| lifeless | regardless | 19:30 |
| jeblair | so let's see if we can catch up with them today, and if they don't jump up and down on their hats, we'll proceed with that. | 19:30 |
| lifeless | thank you | 19:30 |
| jeblair | lifeless: thank you. i'm still really excited by this. | 19:31 |
| jeblair | #topic Requested StackForge project rename (fungi, clarkb, zhiwei) | 19:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Requested StackForge project rename (fungi, clarkb, zhiwei) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:31 | |
| jeblair | have we heard from zhiwei ? | 19:31 |
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| fungi | yes, he's eager to have it happen as soon as we're able to do the rename | 19:32 |
| clarkb | zhiwei has pinged at PST night time. I suggested we would bundle it with the next openstack related downtime (savanna?) | 19:32 |
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| jeblair | sounds like a plan | 19:32 |
| clarkb | right zhiwei would like to get this done soon so they can cut an icehouse branch | 19:32 |
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| clarkb | but savanna is votign on stuff now so I expect that to move along at a good pace now | 19:32 |
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| clarkb | SergeyLukjanov: ^ ? | 19:32 |
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| jeblair | fungi, clarkb: can you update the wiki and indicate the old and new names of the project or projects that need renaming? | 19:33 |
| fungi | i thought the vote was scheduled to end yesterday? | 19:33 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | clarkb, I hope that we'll have a couple of discussed options at the end of this week | 19:33 |
| fungi | jeblair: definitely | 19:33 |
| SergeyLukjanov | clarkb, than we'll wait for foundation to check them | 19:33 |
| clarkb | fungi: it got extended | 19:33 |
| clarkb | jeblair: defnitely (on the meeting agenda?) | 19:33 |
| fungi | oh, got it | 19:33 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: yeah, let's drop it to the bottom and collect projects there until we do a rename | 19:34 |
| jeblair | #topic Ongoing new project creation issues (mordred) | 19:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ongoing new project creation issues (mordred) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:34 | |
| clarkb | jeblair: will do | 19:34 |
| jeblair | anteaya, fungi: you've been working on this, what's the latest? | 19:34 |
| SergeyLukjanov | fungi, the initial vote will end today, but it's a first round to filter really bad options :) | 19:34 |
| jeblair | SergeyLukjanov: filter the bad ones out or in? :) | 19:34 |
| SergeyLukjanov | jeblair, I mean filter out :) | 19:35 |
| anteaya | mostly there is logging available, plus patches for more | 19:35 |
| fungi | jeblair: bug is updated with most recent findings, but in short we do capture tracebacks in the syslog when puppet tries to add project which don't import an existing repository | 19:35 |
| SergeyLukjanov | jeblair, heh, we'd like the most bad name ever | 19:35 |
| SergeyLukjanov | to have* | 19:35 |
| fungi | and also we've spotted a race condition between when create-cgitrepos runs on the git servers and when gerrit is told to replicate | 19:35 |
| jeblair | fungi: that pretty much needs to be solved with salt, right? | 19:35 |
| fungi | the latter, yes or something driven from the gerrit server anyway | 19:35 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | looks like we could move on and approve more create-project patch with upstream | 19:36 |
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| anteaya | so the logging was needed to determine the next steps for solving, correct? | 19:36 |
| jeblair | fungi: so is that the _only_ problem at this point? | 19:36 |
| fungi | SergeyLukjanov: yes it seems like the ones i approved which imported an existing repository worked fine | 19:36 |
| anteaya | shall I move to working with salt, or is it still too early? | 19:36 |
| fungi | jeblair: the only two problems? | 19:36 |
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| jeblair | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ci/+bug/1242569 | 19:37 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1242569 in openstack-ci "manage-projects error on new project creation" [Critical,In progress] | 19:37 |
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| clarkb | fungi: jeblair SergeyLukjanov maybe a pre replicate configureable optional shell out step in manage-projects | 19:37 |
| clarkb | then have that trigger salt, or ssh in a for loop or puppet even | 19:37 |
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| fungi | anteaya: i still have an open etherpad where utahdave was going to provide us with clearer examples of using reactors, if you wanted to take over and try to figure that part out | 19:38 |
| SergeyLukjanov | it should fix the non-ustream creation issue I hope | 19:38 |
| anteaya | I can do that, yes | 19:38 |
| jeblair | clarkb: yeah, it seems like having manage-projects run salt commands is a good architecture. it could even "import salt", right? | 19:38 |
| fungi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Salt-Event-System | 19:38 |
| anteaya | would this be a candidate for a reactor do you think? | 19:38 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: but i don't understand reactors, so maybe that's better? | 19:39 |
| fungi | anteaya: apparently anything which needs to happen as a result of something else happening successfully requires a reactor, from what i'm led to believe | 19:39 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: yup import salt and talk directly | 19:39 |
| anteaya | fungi: let me gather my thoughts on this and then get back to you | 19:39 |
| jeblair | that at least i can understand and reason about. ;) | 19:39 |
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| fungi | import salt and talk directly to what? | 19:40 |
| anteaya | I don't want to offer an opinion before I am ready | 19:40 |
| SergeyLukjanov | fungi, to salt I think :) | 19:40 |
| fungi | have the gerrit server be a salt master and the git servers be salt minions? | 19:40 |
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| anteaya | what I am hearing is explore how salt can help manage-projects | 19:40 |
| clarkb | anteaya: ya | 19:40 |
| anteaya | that is what I will go on | 19:40 |
| jeblair | fungi: i don't think it has to be a master, but we can let gerrit run the create-cgit-repos command via salt | 19:40 |
| clarkb | anteaya: mostly I am leaning down that road beacuse it might reduce the amount of additional infrastructure necessaryto trigger the pre replication steps | 19:40 |
| jeblair | fungi: where gerrit in that sentence really means 'manage projects running on review.o.o' | 19:40 |
| anteaya | clarkb: yes, I am leaning the same way | 19:41 |
| fungi | jeblair: oh, i see, just using salt as a proxy for "ssh to these machines and do this" (didn't realize you didn't need a salt master to be able to do that) | 19:41 |
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| anteaya | no | 19:41 |
| anteaya | salt trigger can feed commands to master | 19:41 |
| anteaya | if that is the best option | 19:41 |
| anteaya | and we have salt trigger up and running | 19:41 |
| jeblair | fungi: i think you need the master, but you can grant minions access to run specific commands; i think that was the idea of having the jenkins salt slave trigger something | 19:42 |
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| anteaya | yes, what jeblair said | 19:42 |
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| fungi | anteaya: well, that's for config repository changes, and its design apparently depends on having a working reactor implemented on the master to get any cascading work done (update git repo in one place, run puppet apply in another) | 19:42 |
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| anteaya | fungi: I will have to look more deeply into the reactor part | 19:43 |
| fungi | this is what utahdave was working on getting us good examples for, because he said dependent activities aren't well covered in the documentation | 19:43 |
| anteaya | it is for config changes since that is how we have it triggered | 19:43 |
| anteaya | it can trigger on anything we decide to trigger on | 19:43 |
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| jeblair | fungi: so aside from 'cgit repos not created in the right order' what's the other bug? | 19:43 |
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| fungi | projects which don't import an existing repository fail to get created, and spew a traceback from gerritlib trying to create-project through the ssh api | 19:44 |
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| fungi | and i noted the resultant state of the jeepyb scratch repository, but without adding more logging to the script it's hard to know what else might have gone wrong | 19:44 |
| jeblair | fungi: is that where this comes from? https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ci/+bug/1242569/comments/13 | 19:45 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1242569 in openstack-ci "manage-projects error on new project creation" [Critical,In progress] | 19:45 |
| SergeyLukjanov | is it really critical to be able to create projects w/o upstream? | 19:45 |
| fungi | jeblair: yes | 19:45 |
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| jeblair | ok. thanks. | 19:45 |
| fungi | jeblair: it seems that something (nice and vague, huh) is preventing the initial repository in the gerrit homedir from getting fully created. script dies somewhere between that and building the jeepyb scratch repo | 19:46 |
| jeblair | that should be a recreatable and diagnosable problem with a local gerrit. | 19:46 |
| clarkb | weird that it only affects empty projects? | 19:46 |
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| clarkb | since all gerrit projects start that way | 19:46 |
| anteaya | fungi: will my additional logging patches help id the something? | 19:46 |
| clarkb | then later on manage-projects force pushes into the blank repo | 19:46 |
| jeblair | clarkb: yeah, i was thinking the same. that may both suggest a bug in jeepyb and help narrow the location. | 19:47 |
| fungi | i believe that the previous blind testing was inconclusive because we actually had (at least) two different bugs, so the results were hard to correlate | 19:47 |
| jeblair | clarkb: but i don't have the jeepyb code loaded in my brain. | 19:47 |
| anteaya | I still have gotten nowhere on setting up a local gerrit, I am not very good at sorting out the modules from config and implementing them | 19:47 |
| anteaya | my failure here | 19:47 |
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| jeblair | #topic Discuss about using compute nodes in LXC container for multi-node setup (matrohon, jgallard) | 19:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss about using compute nodes in LXC container for multi-node setup (matrohon, jgallard) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:49 | |
| matrohon | hi | 19:49 |
| jeblair | matrohon: what's up? | 19:49 |
| matrohon | we would like to enhance neutron testing especially with ML2 and overlay networks | 19:50 |
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| clarkb | isn't this a non starter for the reasons that pleia2 and jaypipes have discovered? I suppose we can test less cinder (but then we lose test coverage) | 19:50 |
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| lifeless | clarkb: and less nbd | 19:50 |
| pleia2 | I still have my notes from a few months back here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tripleobaremetallxc2013 (it's tripleo-specific, but a lot carries over into more general multi-node) | 19:50 |
| lifeless | clarkb: which means you have to have a working guestfish, because nova really likes mounting disks. | 19:50 |
| clarkb | lifeless: whcih doesn't work on precise :/ | 19:51 |
| lifeless | right | 19:51 |
| matrohon | I saw jaypipes issues, and we could potentially have the same with ovs | 19:51 |
| matrohon | but not with linuxbridge | 19:51 |
| anteaya | matrohon: is the multi-node part the important part? | 19:51 |
| lifeless | for multinode - I'd point folk at tripleo-gate personally. | 19:51 |
| pleia2 | matrohon: if you see the etherpad, ovs works ok if you load in the modules | 19:51 |
| anteaya | or the lxc part? | 19:51 |
| matrohon | pleia2 : thanks | 19:51 |
| matrohon | tgeh multi-node part is the most important for our gates jobs | 19:52 |
| clarkb | if we can get lxc to work I think that would be great, but having poked at it with pleia2 I don't have high hopes | 19:52 |
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| jaypipes | matrohon: yes, runnign jenkins slaves that need to install OVS or iscsi is a non-starter. | 19:52 |
| sdague | so what about going back to the multinode + openvpn l2 that we talked about at summit | 19:52 |
| pleia2 | iscsi was our stopping point | 19:52 |
| anteaya | matrohon: okay, so I suggest you focus on that part and then let discussion unfold about how to do that | 19:52 |
| sdague | just start 2 actual cloud guests and build them a layer 2 | 19:52 |
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| sdague | then proceed from there | 19:52 |
| pleia2 | if anyone wants to fix iscsi.. :) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxc/+bug/1226855 | 19:53 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1226855 in lxc "Cannot use open-iscsi inside LXC container" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 19:53 |
| matrohon | anteaya : ok | 19:53 |
| jaypipes | pleia2: right, and OVS isn't installable in a shared-kernel VM either... at least, I've tried and can't do it.. | 19:53 |
| anteaya | matrohon: so lifeless has a proposal up, tripleo-gate | 19:53 |
| sdague | because I think lxc brings more problems than it is worth here, and I expect if this part isn't easy, we're going to find a ton of other issues down the road | 19:53 |
| pleia2 | jaypipes: lines 20-22 are how I got ovs working ok | 19:53 |
| jeblair | sdague: yes. i like that approach. i think it will be moderately easier when we move from jenkins to non-jenkins workers.... | 19:54 |
| jeblair | sdague: but it is still probably doable with jenkins | 19:54 |
| matrohon | jaypipes : but the idea is to use linux bridge instead, this would help us to test linuxbridge agent | 19:54 |
| sdague | jeblair: yeh, I think it's something that we could do today, with the cloud resources we have. | 19:54 |
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| matrohon | anteaya : we will look at tripleo-gate too | 19:54 |
| anteaya | matrohon: try to stay focused on one thing at a time, testing linuxbridge is a sub requirement | 19:54 |
| sdague | I'm reluctant to just keep saying tripleo-gate will save the world, because it's not even self gating yet :) | 19:55 |
| fungi | it "just" needs additional automation around grouping workers or proxying them and being able to grant workers to other workers | 19:55 |
| anteaya | matrohon: if you stay focused on multi-node you now have two suggestions | 19:55 |
| jeblair | matrohon: yes, keep in mind tripleo-gate doesn't exist yet. | 19:55 |
| lifeless | sdague: I know, right! what are those tripleo folk thinking :) | 19:55 |
| fungi | plus the tunneled networking implementation of course | 19:55 |
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| sdague | fungi: so tunnelled networking should be easy enough with openvpn L2, even between cloud providers | 19:56 |
| matrohon | fungi : and the live-migration | 19:56 |
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| sdague | matrohon: so how much time do you have to devote here? | 19:57 |
| jgallard | hi all, I would like to know what you think about to add LXC support in devstack as extra hook ? | 19:57 |
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| jeblair | matrohon: if you are willing to put in some work on the openvpn and how to get zuul and jenkins to assign multiple nodes to a task, i'd be happy to help point you at where to work on that. | 19:57 |
| matrohon | jgallard is full time on it | 19:57 |
| jeblair | matrohon: but it's going to be a good deal of infrastructure work, as none of that exists at the moment. | 19:57 |
| jgallard | we started to work on that | 19:57 |
| clarkb | jeblair: matrohon fungi sdague nodepool may be able to coordinate the openvpn setup with the features BobBall and firnds are adding to it for xen image creation | 19:57 |
| jeblair | clarkb: true, that could be another useful tool | 19:58 |
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| sdague | jgallard: so lxc might solve a very limitted test scenario, but with the issues that were already run into, it can't be the generic multinode case | 19:58 |
| jeblair | jgallard, matrohon: chat with us further in #openstack-infra | 19:58 |
| jeblair | #topic Savanna testing (SergeyLukjanov) | 19:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Savanna testing (SergeyLukjanov) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:58 | |
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| matrohon | jeblair : ok thanks | 19:59 |
| jgallard | ok, thanks a lot | 19:59 |
| jeblair | SergeyLukjanov: real quick? :) | 19:59 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | there are several small updates - we're now have cli tests in tempest and so we'd like to gate together savanna and it's client | 19:59 |
| SergeyLukjanov | jeblair, yup | 19:59 |
| SergeyLukjanov | and we're moving client docs to client | 19:59 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | so, I'll really appretiate for review/approve https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74310/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74470/ | 19:59 |
| SergeyLukjanov | end | 19:59 |
| jeblair | cool, and i don't feel bad about running into the tc timeslot because i'm sure they're interested to see that. :) | 20:00 |
| jeblair | SergeyLukjanov: great, thanks | 20:00 |
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| markmc | hey | 20:00 |
| jeblair | thanks everyone! | 20:00 |
| markmc | roll up, roll up | 20:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 18 20:00:17 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| markmc | hah | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-02-18-19.01.html | 20:00 |
| markmc | roll up, roll up | 20:00 |
| SergeyLukjanov | thanks! | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-02-18-19.01.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-02-18-19.01.log.html | 20:00 |
| markmc | who do we have? | 20:00 |
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| sdague | o/ | 20:00 |
| SergeyLukjanov | markmc, o/ | 20:00 |
| mikal | Heya | 20:00 |
| jeblair | o/ | 20:00 |
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| markmc | russellb, annegentle, mordred, jgriffith, vishy, markmcclain, lifeless, dhellmann: around ? | 20:00 |
| NobodyCam | o/ | 20:00 |
| SergeyLukjanov | jeblair, it was really quick update ;) | 20:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:00 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:01 |
| annegentle | aroo | 20:01 |
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| *** mrda_away is now known as mrda | 20:01 | |
| markmc | ok, I think that's 7 | 20:01 |
| markmc | call me fake_ttx | 20:01 |
| markmc | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 18 20:01:26 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is markmc. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:01 |
| markmc | our agenda: | 20:01 |
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| markmc | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:01 |
| markmc | #topic DefCore subcommittee status | 20:01 |
| markmc | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2014-February/000532.html | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "DefCore subcommittee status (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| markmc | ok | 20:01 |
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| markmc | mikal, you have a gerrit review ? | 20:02 |
| mikal | markmc: want me to talk to this one? | 20:02 |
| markmc | sure, please do | 20:02 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:02 |
| zehicle_at_dell | o/ | 20:02 |
| mikal | markmc: yep, there is a gerrit review for a _draft_ response to the DefCore committee's request at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74483/ | 20:02 |
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| mikal | Sorry it hasn't been up for very long | 20:02 |
| markmc | #link https://review.openstack.org/74483 | 20:03 |
| mikal | There was also a desire to ask the TC how they felt about both of our delegates for the DefCore committee being from Rackspace | 20:03 |
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| mikal | We want to avoid any appearance of trying to stack the conversation with Rackers | 20:03 |
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| markmc | mikal, how about you talk through the essential elements of the draft ? | 20:03 |
| mikal | annegentle: you around? | 20:03 |
| * markmc clarifies | 20:03 | |
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| mikal | markmc: sure, that makes sense | 20:04 |
| markmc | this is a draft response from the TC to the DefCore committee's request | 20:04 |
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| mikal | So. I think the main thing in the draft is that we want to break the problem up. | 20:04 |
| markmc | that we look at this "designated sections" thing | 20:04 |
| mikal | There isn't a consensus on how to deal with "designated sections" and there isn't a lot of time for icehouse | 20:04 |
| russellb | so conclusion, focus on the API testing bit first | 20:04 |
| mikal | So we propose that we do the bit we do agree on for icehouse, and iterate in later releases | 20:04 |
| mikal | russellb: yeah | 20:05 |
| zehicle_at_dell | Could we come up with some altenatives? | 20:05 |
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| annegentle | o/ | 20:05 |
| mikal | zehicle_at_dell: alternatives to designated sections? | 20:05 |
| zehicle_at_dell | I'd like to see what options on designated sections are being considered, it would help | 20:05 |
| zehicle_at_dell | not alternative to, but alternative definitions | 20:05 |
| mikal | zehicle_at_dell: well, the debate is a bit more fundamental that that unfortunately | 20:05 |
| zehicle_at_dell | not surprised | 20:06 |
| russellb | zehicle_at_dell: there's a number of unanswered questions around the designated sections thing in the draft | 20:06 |
| mikal | zehicle_at_dell: its mostly about "are designated sections a good idea" | 20:06 |
| russellb | mikal: and right, it's quite fundamental | 20:06 |
| mikal | I think perhaps because the review is only a few minutes old | 20:06 |
| markmc | I'd put it like this - API testing around interop is our priority | 20:06 |
| mikal | It might be fair to ask everyone to read it and comment there | 20:06 |
| mikal | And perhaps we can iterate in the review | 20:06 |
| mikal | And finalize at the next meeting? | 20:06 |
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| zehicle_at_dell | russellb, did I miss this from last meeting? | 20:07 |
| markmc | and the "include the entirety of the code" provision in the trademark rules should suffice until the API interop issue is tackled | 20:07 |
| russellb | even working out details of the API testing seems aggressive for this timeline, so focusing there seems like a good idea | 20:07 |
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| markmc | zehicle_at_dell, to be clear - we're just introducing a proposed draft | 20:07 |
| markmc | zehicle_at_dell, everyone on the TC still needs time to consider it | 20:07 |
| zehicle_at_dell | +1 | 20:07 |
| mikal | markmc: yes, its entirely possible the TC will reject this draft | 20:07 |
| markmc | zehicle_at_dell, and yes, I think this reflects the discussion last week | 20:07 |
| mikal | I've tried to represent everyone's expressed points of view, even where I don't nessesarily personally agree | 20:08 |
| mikal | But that doesn't mean I did it right | 20:08 |
| zehicle_at_dell | markmc, I know that these things take time. not trying to rush it. The first pass from DefCore will be "provisional" for Havana | 20:08 |
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| markmc | ok, any first reactions from TC members ? | 20:08 |
| zehicle_at_dell | and then we'll iterate to catchup | 20:08 |
| * russellb is happy with the draft, but had a chance to read it earlier | 20:08 | |
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| * dhellmann is going to need time to digest it | 20:09 | |
| markmc | yeah, I need to re-read too | 20:09 |
| russellb | sure, makes sense | 20:09 |
| mikal | I think that's very fair | 20:09 |
| sdague | yeh, reread definitely in order | 20:09 |
| mikal | This isn't an attempt to ram something through | 20:09 |
| markmc | I reckon it's important we not bikeshed the details on this | 20:09 |
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| annegentle | zehicle_at_dell: we do want to help answer the questions, we're trying to focus representatives and make sure we understand the request and possible paths | 20:09 |
| markmc | that we make sure we're capturing rough consensus | 20:09 |
| annegentle | markmc: yeah | 20:09 |
| zehicle_at_dell | thanks, can someone shoot a link to the draft? | 20:09 |
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| russellb | markmc: +1 | 20:09 |
| annegentle | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74483/1/resolutions/20140211-tc_defcore_response | 20:09 |
| russellb | zehicle_at_dell: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74483/ | 20:09 |
| mikal | zehicle_at_dell: noting that the defcore committee should remember this is a draft if they read it... | 20:10 |
| mikal | zehicle_at_dell: i.e. the TC might pivot | 20:10 |
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| markmc | jeblair, vishy, any first thoughts ? | 20:10 |
| jeblair | markmc: it seems very well written. i think i need to curl up with it though, and may have some questions later. | 20:11 |
| markmc | jeblair, cool, enjoy and stay warm :) | 20:11 |
| mikal | jeblair: you take gerrit to bed at night?!? | 20:11 |
| russellb | take it out to dinner | 20:11 |
| markmc | haha | 20:11 |
| vishy | markmc: still looking | 20:11 |
| russellb | maybe for a walk on the beach | 20:11 |
| markmc | vishy, cool | 20:11 |
| mikal | LOL | 20:11 |
| markmc | ok, the other thing on this that annegentle raised and mikal mentioned | 20:11 |
| mikal | Well, perhaps we can come back to first impressions at the end of the meeting? | 20:12 |
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| markmc | if mikal and annegentle are the TC's reps on DefCore | 20:12 |
| markmc | then it may appear odd that both are from RAX | 20:12 |
| markmc | the fact that it didn't occur to me makes me think it's a non-issue | 20:12 |
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| mikal | I think even having this dicussion helps | 20:12 |
| markmc | but anyone think we should add someone, or replace someone? | 20:12 |
| annegentle | yes, that wasn't the intent, but then we looked at other backup combos and it was nova-heavy or vendor-heavy or just heavy :) | 20:13 |
| mikal | If we want to keep going with these people | 20:13 |
| mikal | At least we've discussed it | 20:13 |
| jeblair | markmc, mikal: mostly i wonder how does this impact the defcore plan? if this section is missing; what portion of the actual openstack code base are trademark users required to run or distribute? | 20:13 |
| markmc | jeblair, my take - the trademark rules already have an "include the entirety of the code" provision | 20:13 |
| markmc | jeblair, we'd just be deferring making any change to that | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | I'm not worried about mikal and annegentle representing the TC vs. RackSpace on this -- we're going to be discussing our position as a group anyway | 20:13 |
| markmc | jeblair, that was jbryce's way of explaining it too | 20:14 |
| * russellb happy with mikal and annegentle as reps | 20:14 | |
| jeblair | markmc: gotcha. | 20:14 |
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| mikal | jeblair: I think if we focused on interop for the first cycle, we're really saying that the board can use its discretion on what code must be included and how to enforce that. For example a gentleman's agreement might be sufficient for now. | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: thanks for raising that, I was reaching the same question point | 20:14 |
| markmc | it certainly isn't free reign to "not run our code" | 20:14 |
| russellb | right, which i think is the big thing we probably do have consensus on | 20:15 |
| russellb | so let's just leave it there for now IMO | 20:15 |
| markmc | it just means we wouldn't get any more specific on that ... yet | 20:15 |
| markmc | ok, we've a full agenda and seem to all want to digest the draft | 20:15 |
| markmc | moving on, last chance? | 20:15 |
| mikal | It seems we're cool with Anne and I | 20:15 |
| mikal | So thanks for that | 20:16 |
| markmc | yep | 20:16 |
| jeblair | ++ mikal and annegentle | 20:16 |
| annegentle | thanks | 20:16 |
| mikal | And move on... | 20:16 |
| markmc | #topic Integrated projects and new requirements: Nova | 20:16 |
| markmc | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-February/026450.html | 20:16 |
| markmc | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IcehouseProjectReviewNova | 20:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Integrated projects and new requirements: Nova (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:16 | |
| markmc | you're up russellb | 20:16 |
| russellb | hi! | 20:16 |
| markmc | take your seat in the dock | 20:16 |
| markmc | or stand, rather | 20:16 |
| russellb | so, I wanted to go through all currently integrated projects and review them using our new criteria | 20:16 |
| russellb | so, Nova up first | 20:16 |
| russellb | the etherpad markmc linked to has the requirements, and my notes for nova on those requirements | 20:16 |
| russellb | i can hit a few discussion points, and then any discussion | 20:16 |
| russellb | on the testing front, we have a lot, but there are a few pain points i think we all want to improve | 20:17 |
| russellb | we lack multi-node testing, so some key things like live migration aren't tested | 20:17 |
| russellb | we also lack respectable test coverage on cells | 20:17 |
| russellb | we've got closing the cells testing gap on the roadmap for Juno | 20:17 |
| russellb | and on multi-node, sounds like there's progress being made there too, coming from the tripleo side of things | 20:18 |
| russellb | the other point i had notes on was bug triage | 20:18 |
| russellb | we haven't been good at it | 20:18 |
| russellb | we've had a few people go through the "bug czar" position without much success | 20:18 |
| markmc | well, the problem with bug triage is arguably a good one - lots of people filing bugs | 20:18 |
| russellb | i've just appointed a new person to that position, tracy jones, who seems very eager to make progress with it | 20:19 |
| russellb | yeah, that's true | 20:19 |
| mikal | It would be good to read those bugs too though | 20:19 |
| markmc | when looking at new projects, we could see how active bug reporters are? | 20:19 |
| russellb | right, i just want to make sure we're catching the important ones | 20:19 |
| russellb | and being responsive to these contributions | 20:19 |
| markmc | yeah, don't get me wrong - agree that better bug triage is important | 20:19 |
| sdague | there are also just straight up challenges with a large bug queue, because there are inherently dupes in it then, especially with how bad launchpad search is | 20:20 |
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| russellb | that's true though, maybe looking at some combination of reports and triage of those reports is the right thing | 20:20 |
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| russellb | if a new project is getting zero reports ... that would be a concern | 20:20 |
| markmc | I guess the question is if Nova was coming up for graduation review | 20:20 |
| russellb | it's either perfect, or not used | 20:20 |
| markmc | are there any red flags | 20:20 |
| russellb | yeah | 20:20 |
| markmc | are we unfairly giving nova a pass ? | 20:20 |
| russellb | good way to put it | 20:20 |
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| markmc | would we expect a greater level of testing? | 20:21 |
| sdague | so the red flag for me is actually cells | 20:21 |
| markmc | I don't think so | 20:21 |
| sdague | not so much because of the lack of testing | 20:21 |
| dansmith | we actually heard of some large deployments being interested in it last week, | 20:21 |
| russellb | the 2 ways to deploy nova issue? | 20:21 |
| sdague | but the reason for the lack of testing, which is it really implements a different subset of nova | 20:21 |
| dansmith | if that's what you're going to say | 20:21 |
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| russellb | so i definitely ACK that it's a problem, and it's not going to stay this way forever | 20:21 |
| russellb | we had a really good discussion on next generation cells last week | 20:21 |
| russellb | that would solve this | 20:22 |
| russellb | assuming it gets done :-) | 20:22 |
| sdague | honestly, the 2 ways to deploy nova is a problem, but the fact that a lot of features just don't work on cells, becomes a problem | 20:22 |
| russellb | yep | 20:22 |
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| russellb | so, it's host aggregates (which is a WIP actually) and security groups AFAIK | 20:22 |
| russellb | well, and the total awkwardness of every other project not having the cells concept | 20:22 |
| markmc | sdague, what would our general advice to projects - don't merge WIP features like cells ? | 20:22 |
| sdague | so based on the last tempest results, it's actually much more than that I think | 20:23 |
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| russellb | sdague: could be, not supposed to be ... not testing it doesn't help | 20:23 |
| sdague | russellb: agreed, I turned back on a tempest job last week to have some data | 20:23 |
| russellb | "if rackspace uses it, it probably works" isn't a great spot to be in :) | 20:23 |
| sdague | non voting | 20:23 |
| russellb | cool | 20:23 |
| sdague | there are definitely some substantial regressions from havana | 20:24 |
| russellb | markmc: good question though ... what advice would we give nova of the past | 20:24 |
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| markmc | I basically think we don't have better ideas for how this should have been done | 20:24 |
| sdague | markmc: so I think cells should have been marked as experimental / unsupported until finished implementing the manager | 20:24 |
| russellb | so | 20:24 |
| mikal | I think we could have asked for more active devs on it | 20:24 |
| russellb | we actually did mark it experimental when it merged | 20:24 |
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| markmc | ok, I consider it experimental :) | 20:25 |
| mikal | It was basically one person | 20:25 |
| russellb | and we never really claimed it to be non-experimental | 20:25 |
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| russellb | we just don't really have a clear way to communicate that | 20:25 |
| russellb | the original release notes called it experimental though, and we haven't made a statement since | 20:25 |
| markmc | it's off by default, for a start | 20:25 |
| jgriffith | markmc: +1 | 20:25 |
| sdague | well there are tons of warning going in on compute drivers that are considered unsupported | 20:25 |
| sdague | should something equivalent be put in for cells? | 20:25 |
| dansmith | I'm fine with that | 20:25 |
| markmcclain | I think so | 20:25 |
| russellb | sure, that's fine with me | 20:26 |
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| dansmith | (not that I get a vote here :P) | 20:26 |
| russellb | it's tested, but only lightly | 20:26 |
| jgriffith | I don't know if that does you much good after somebody deployed it though | 20:26 |
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| jgriffith | Treat it as an extension, leave it disabled and don't put it in mainline docs | 20:26 |
| sdague | sure, so there is definitely a messaging question. | 20:26 |
| russellb | no, but perhaps helps set expectations for people playing with it now | 20:26 |
| annegentle | so, cells are documented in the Ops Guide already, NeCTAR has it in their use case | 20:26 |
| annegentle | #link http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/openstack-ops/content/scaling.html#segregate_cloud | 20:27 |
| russellb | yeah, it is used successfully by multiple large deployments | 20:27 |
| russellb | it's not junk by any stretch | 20:27 |
| annegentle | not really wanting to extricate | 20:27 |
| russellb | just a bit confusing, maintenance burden not so great, etc | 20:27 |
| markmc | ok, let's retreat from the cells rabbit hole | 20:27 |
| markmc | good feedback though | 20:27 |
| markmc | anything else on nova? | 20:27 |
| markmc | another thought - reviewer team efficacy | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: I don't think we'd remove it from the docs, but mark it as experimental there? | 20:28 |
| markmc | it's a problem with nova right now | 20:28 |
| russellb | markmc: good point | 20:28 |
| markmc | (says he as one of the least active reviewers right now) | 20:28 |
| russellb | not just having a diverse review team, but one that keeps up? | 20:28 |
| markmc | should it be on the graduation review checklist? | 20:28 |
| markmc | #link http://russellbryant.net/openstack-stats/nova-openreviews.txt | 20:28 |
| russellb | it's a pain point for us for sure | 20:28 |
| markmc | --> Total Open Reviews: 511 | 20:28 |
| markmc | --> Waiting on Submitter: 127 | 20:28 |
| markmc | --> Waiting on Reviewer: 384 | 20:28 |
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| * russellb wishes he had a good answer for that | 20:29 | |
| dhellmann | russellb: do you track the review stats for reviews for approved blueprints and bugs separately from all the rest? I'd be curious to know how well you keep up with what you promise to do. | 20:29 |
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| russellb | dhellmann: no, good idea though | 20:29 |
| russellb | though we generally approve everything that's sane | 20:29 |
| russellb | we don't have a gate for "agree to do it" right now | 20:29 |
| russellb | we tried that with the core sponsors for blueprints idea | 20:29 |
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| russellb | which was a complete failure | 20:30 |
| russellb | because nobody sponsored anything | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | that would make for thin release notes, with no changes ;-) | 20:30 |
| russellb | (nobody wanted to spend extra time messing around in launchpad i guess, i don't know) | 20:30 |
| mikal | russellb: I think we were all too busy... | 20:30 |
| jgriffith | dhellmann: or something robust | 20:30 |
| sdague | markmc: so it's a good question, but I actually think one that's almost of a different nature, which is challenges of maturing projects in OpenStack that have way more inbound then review bandwidth | 20:30 |
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| dhellmann | that's good to know, though, I was thinking of something like that for oslo but maybe I'll look for other options | 20:30 |
| russellb | so on this note ... should also compare to the overall stats http://russellbryant.net/openstack-stats/all-openreviews.txt | 20:30 |
| sdague | which I think is honestly typically the inverse of what we see on projects in early stage | 20:31 |
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| russellb | the wait times for nova are in line with the openstack-wide average | 20:31 |
| russellb | so maybe that's the way to look at it ... | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | sdague: good point | 20:31 |
| russellb | your review queue shouldn't be painfully worse than openstack overall | 20:31 |
| russellb | or something | 20:31 |
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| markmc | ok, any other thoughts on nova? | 20:31 |
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| dhellmann | for a new project to have a review queue that bad, it would have to mean they aren't collaborating with non-cores or something, right? | 20:32 |
| jeblair | i think we should keep nova. :) | 20:32 |
| russellb | jeblair: yay! | 20:32 |
| annegentle | jeblair: yes! | 20:32 |
| russellb | <3 | 20:32 |
| sdague | jeblair: only if russellb makes us cookies :) | 20:32 |
| markmc | jeblair, until something better comes along :) | 20:32 |
| russellb | markmc: +1 | 20:32 |
| markmc | heh | 20:32 |
| markmc | ok, thanks russellb | 20:32 |
| * markmc moves along | 20:32 | |
| markmc | #topic Creating key distribution service (KDS) under identity program | 20:32 |
| markmc | #link https://review.openstack.org/73022 | 20:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Creating key distribution service (KDS) under identity program (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:32 | |
| markmc | dolphm, this is yours ? | 20:32 |
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| dolphm | markmc: yes | 20:33 |
| markmc | dolphm, want to talk us through it ? | 20:33 |
| russellb | so, if it's a server project, shouldn't it apply for incubation? or what am i missing? | 20:33 |
| dolphm | i actually didn't realize it was on the TC agenda today - can it be deferred til next week? | 20:33 |
| markmc | is it a user facing API ? | 20:33 |
| markmc | dolphm, ok, quick first thoughts to those questions ? | 20:34 |
| dolphm | markmc: yes | 20:34 |
| markmc | dolphm, where user == operator ? or self-service user ? | 20:34 |
| dolphm | russellb: it's already landing in keystone's codebase, as a discrete service | 20:34 |
| dolphm | russellb: keystone.contrib.kds | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | dolphm: I think the question there was about listing it as "integrated" vs. "other" at this stage | 20:34 |
| dolphm | it has it's own API, with an eye toward splitting the codebase into it's own repo before shipping icehouse | 20:34 |
| dolphm | dhellmann: ah; i don't have a preference between the two | 20:35 |
| dolphm | patchset 1 against governance has it as 'other', actually | 20:35 |
| dolphm | i changed it to 'integrated' considering it's already in a core project atm | 20:35 |
| dolphm | integrated* project | 20:35 |
| russellb | so, i don't think quickly passing through the keystone tree before going into its own repo is a good reason to skip the incubation process | 20:35 |
| sdague | agreed | 20:35 |
| jgriffith | sounds like shenanigans IMO | 20:35 |
| russellb | sounds like bypassing this whole process? | 20:35 |
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| markmc | is it a widening of keystone's scope that deserved TC review in the first place ? | 20:36 |
| sdague | we followed the incubation process on things like cinder, ironic, and gantt, so I think if it's trying to split out it should follow the same process | 20:36 |
| markmc | or did we do that already ? | 20:36 |
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| russellb | markmc: I think it is a widening of scope, yes | 20:36 |
| dolphm | russellb: jgriffith: i don't disagree | 20:36 |
| russellb | and i don't think we've discussed it in the TC ... | 20:36 |
| markmc | ok, dolphm requested we defer until next week | 20:37 |
| jgriffith | The only discussion I recall is the brief proposal on ML | 20:37 |
| markmc | which is fair enough | 20:37 |
| russellb | works for me | 20:37 |
| annegentle | russellb: we talked about it in context of barbican's application iirc | 20:37 |
| jgriffith | cool | 20:37 |
| markmc | let's stew on it for another week? | 20:37 |
| russellb | fair | 20:37 |
| annegentle | markmc: sure | 20:37 |
| markmc | cool | 20:37 |
| markmc | moving along | 20:37 |
| markmc | #topic Topics you'd like to see discussed at joint Board/TC meeting in Atlanta | 20:37 |
| dolphm | annegentle: ++ | 20:37 |
| markmc | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2014-February/000536.html | 20:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Topics you'd like to see discussed at joint Board/TC meeting in Atlanta (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:37 | |
| markmc | now, it's only a 2 hour meeting | 20:37 |
| russellb | i'll bring cookies | 20:37 |
| russellb | (maybe) | 20:37 |
| markmc | with roughly 40 attendees | 20:37 |
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| annegentle | mm baked goods | 20:37 |
| markmc | so, I'd say max 2/3 topics total | 20:38 |
| markmc | up to 40 attendees | 20:38 |
| russellb | defcore i suppose. | 20:38 |
| annegentle | what do our constituents want discussed? | 20:38 |
| markmc | but I'm sure AlanClark and ttx have discussed already | 20:38 |
| russellb | though surely there's other worth topics | 20:38 |
| markmc | let's just throw out some ideas | 20:38 |
| annegentle | diversity | 20:38 |
| jeblair | how the board and tc should engage with each other | 20:38 |
| russellb | jeblair: +1 | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: +1 | 20:38 |
| markmc | two good ones | 20:38 |
| mikal | That should be item one | 20:38 |
| lifeless | getting users more engaged with dev, though I dunno if thats a board topic | 20:39 |
| mikal | Everything else flows from that one | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: +1 | 20:39 |
| * markmc would like to think he'd be prepared to introduce the "do we really need this CLA?" topic | 20:39 | |
| russellb | ideally ways we can engage without have to do face to face to make any progress | 20:39 |
| russellb | markmc: +1 | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | russellb: +1000 | 20:39 |
| mikal | Should we do a brain storm on an etherpad? | 20:39 |
| markmc | mikal, go for it! | 20:39 |
| markmcclain | russellb: +1 | 20:39 |
| jeblair | markmc: ++ | 20:39 |
| annegentle | russellb: I like that topic as well, plus it's ironic at an in-person meeting :) | 20:39 |
| markmc | tick, tock, mikal's creating an etherpad | 20:40 |
| mikal | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-tc-board-meeting-ideas | 20:40 |
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| sdague | so I guess the question is what of these topics do we think only make good progress if the TC is there. I can see how the collaboration one would. | 20:41 |
| russellb | dangit | 20:41 |
| russellb | too many people trying to edit the same lines | 20:41 |
| mikal | LOL | 20:41 |
| mikal | That etherpad is awesome | 20:41 |
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| sdague | do we actually need the TC for the CLA one? | 20:41 |
| mikal | Perhaps we should let that stew for a week too? | 20:41 |
| mikal | sdague: the TC can push it? | 20:41 |
| lifeless | mikal: should we? | 20:41 |
| sdague | not that I don't think the CLA one is important, just trying to conserve the window | 20:41 |
| jgriffith | so what's the problem with CLA? Just curious? | 20:42 |
| mikal | I think this etherpad is a grab bag of ideas | 20:42 |
| russellb | hmm, any foundation resources we may want to request? | 20:42 |
| jeblair | the infra team has serious issues with the cla | 20:42 |
| mikal | We should list everythign | 20:42 |
| russellb | to help support development? | 20:42 |
| mikal | Then we can pick the top two or three | 20:42 |
| sdague | russellb: that's a good one | 20:42 |
| russellb | i don't have specifics in mind off hand | 20:42 |
| russellb | but seems appropriate | 20:42 |
| jgriffith | russellb: getting rid of CLA helps dev? | 20:42 |
| jeblair | if it would help, we can write up our thoughts about it for the tc | 20:42 |
| russellb | jgriffith: indeed :) | 20:42 |
| jgriffith | russellb: hmm... careful what you wish for | 20:42 |
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| dhellmann | jgriffith: we have at least one contribution from a US govt employee that can't land because he can't sign it | 20:42 |
| jgriffith | russellb: I think you'll have unexpected results | 20:42 |
| jgriffith | dhellmann: I see | 20:42 |
| jgriffith | interesting | 20:43 |
| jeblair | jgriffith, russellb: yes, the really short version is that it's a process and technical burden to administer, hinders new contributors, and has no real benefit | 20:43 |
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| jgriffith | an exception process may be more appropriate IMO | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | jgriffith: something to do with patent assignementsz | 20:43 |
| jgriffith | but I know we're not here to discuss this :) | 20:43 |
| russellb | jgriffith: i mean like specific asks ... budget we can tap into for cloud resources if we want above and beyond what is donated | 20:43 |
| jgriffith | russellb: oh... different topic | 20:43 |
| sdague | so the other question is about voting on board things | 20:43 |
| vishy | lifeless: what do you mean by "users" | 20:44 |
| markmc | sdague, voting on board things? | 20:44 |
| sdague | which I know was punted, but changing the board election process for individual representatives to be more like the tc is something I'd like to continue to see pushed | 20:44 |
| lifeless | vishy: operators | 20:44 |
| lifeless | vishy: public and private | 20:44 |
| russellb | not necessarily a TC+board thing, but +1 that i don't like the current individual director election system | 20:44 |
| markmc | sdague, IMHO, the TC doesn't really have much of a place in that debate - disagree ? | 20:44 |
| vishy | ok so that is what the users group is for | 20:44 |
| markmc | sdague, as a body, for sure as individuals | 20:44 |
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| sdague | markmc: I think I agree, just throwing out other specific topics of interest. | 20:45 |
| vishy | that tim bell leads | 20:45 |
| markmc | sdague, yep, cool | 20:45 |
| jeblair | sdague: ah yes. i think it was determined that the turnout would not have supported an ammendment; we should be able to cull the membership list for the next board election, i think? | 20:45 |
| markmc | sdague, russellb, how about "Brief feedback from technical community on the individual director election process" ? | 20:45 |
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| russellb | markmc: SURE | 20:46 |
| russellb | err, sure. | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: that was my understanding, too | 20:46 |
| markmc | russellb, WHAT? | 20:46 |
| * markmc cocks his ear | 20:46 | |
| sdague | jeblair: right, I guess that's the meta issue, which is the fact that current foundation rules on individual members basically make bylaw changes impossible | 20:46 |
| sdague | because we'll never get quorum | 20:47 |
| sdague | which does affect the TC | 20:47 |
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| jeblair | sdague: yep. and we've already mentioned two things that would require bylaws changes just in this 5 mins of brainstorming. | 20:47 |
| markmc | sdague, added "Similarly - technical communities desire to not have bylaws changes held up by quorum requirement with huge membership" | 20:47 |
| russellb | do we need to discuss project naming rules/process? | 20:47 |
| sdague | markmc: +1, thanks | 20:48 |
| markmc | ah, indeed | 20:48 |
| russellb | seems there's some conflict there, or perhaps misunderstanding | 20:48 |
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| dhellmann | that might take the whole meeting | 20:48 |
| jgriffith | Wow... better schedule a few more days :) | 20:48 |
| russellb | 2 hours enough? :) | 20:48 |
| markmc | russellb, this: https://github.com/openstack/governance/blob/master/resolutions/20131106-ceilometer-and-heat-official-names | 20:48 |
| markmc | ok, let's move it along | 20:48 |
| russellb | lots of ideas :) | 20:49 |
| annegentle | what no one suggested trust falls? | 20:49 |
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| russellb | annegentle: lol! | 20:49 |
| jgriffith | annegentle: ha! | 20:49 |
| markmc | #topic Minor governance changes | 20:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Minor governance changes (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:49 | |
| markmc | pull yourselves together | 20:49 |
| russellb | plz to be +1ing my deprecated code thingy! | 20:49 |
| markmc | Add a requirement for deprecating duplicated code: https://review.openstack.org/70389 | 20:49 |
| markmc | that looks ready for ttx to approve | 20:49 |
| markmc | Add missed mission statement for Data Processing: https://review.openstack.org/71045 | 20:49 |
| russellb | who else needs shaming for lack of mission statement | 20:50 |
| jeblair | i do | 20:50 |
| russellb | markmcclain: ! | 20:50 |
| mikal | jeblair: shame on you sir | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | one more: Add oslo.test to the Oslo program: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74117/ | 20:50 |
| jeblair | mikal: thank you | 20:50 |
| mikal | jeblair: you're welcome | 20:50 |
| russellb | jgriffith: and you! | 20:50 |
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| * markmc chuckles | 20:51 | |
| med_ | thank you sir may I have another.... | 20:51 |
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| markmcclain | mission statement coming with our project review | 20:51 |
| sdague | dhellmann: do you want to do the name change first? | 20:51 |
| russellb | markmcclain: excellent | 20:51 |
| markmc | russellb, nice high horse you've got there | 20:51 |
| jgriffith | :) | 20:51 |
| markmc | russellb, making a dash for the moral high ground on it ? | 20:51 |
| russellb | markmc: only because i got mine in like a month ago | 20:51 |
| markmc | heh | 20:51 |
| dhellmann | sdague: I was going to wait to change the repo name after the i-3 cutoff, assuming we don't want gerrit downtime | 20:51 |
| russellb | now i can give crap to others | 20:51 |
| * russellb gets knocked off his horse by markmc | 20:51 | |
| sdague | dhellmann: ok | 20:51 |
| russellb | sorry sir | 20:51 |
| russellb | i'll hush now | 20:51 |
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| sdague | well, we can't put it into the gate until the name change, right? | 20:51 |
| markmc | last one ... | 20:51 |
| markmc | Add storyboard-webclient to the infra program: https://review.openstack.org/72706 | 20:51 |
| markmc | jeblair, needs you | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | sdague: ? | 20:52 |
| jeblair | done | 20:52 |
| mikal | Do we think storyboard should have gone through an incubation approval like process? | 20:52 |
| markmc | cool | 20:52 |
| sdague | dhellmann: because of the same issues as olso.sphinx | 20:52 |
| mikal | I get a lot of questions about why we're doing it | 20:52 |
| jeblair | mikal: it's a component project of the infrastructure program, not targeting the integrated release | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | sdague: I'm changing the name of the package now, and the git repo later | 20:52 |
| markmc | mikal, well, it's not intended to be integrated | 20:52 |
| mikal | It might be nice to be able to answer those in public once and for all | 20:52 |
| sdague | dhellmann: ah ok | 20:52 |
| markmc | mikal, now would be a good time to raise the questions | 20:52 |
| annegentle | mikal: jeblair: it's similar to kite/keystone tho | 20:53 |
| jeblair | annegentle: how? | 20:53 |
| markmc | mikal, consider this the approval process :) | 20:53 |
| russellb | it's not a part of openstack though | 20:53 |
| annegentle | totally logical but should be discussed | 20:53 |
| russellb | that's the key difference | 20:53 |
| mikal | jeblair: yeah, I don't intend to block it | 20:53 |
| mikal | I think we could do better at explaining what it is to the community though | 20:53 |
| annegentle | jeblair: just a discussion to have | 20:53 |
| markmc | mikal, e.g. you could -1 saying you want a discussion on openstack-dev | 20:53 |
| markmc | mikal, which would be totally fair | 20:53 |
| russellb | storyboard is the answer to everything | 20:53 |
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| mikal | It seems odd to do that for the webclient when the main thing got a pass | 20:54 |
| mikal | But sure | 20:54 |
| jeblair | storyboard has been discussed widely on openstack-dev already... | 20:54 |
| sdague | russellb: well storyboard and tripleo-gate :) | 20:54 |
| russellb | heh | 20:54 |
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| mikal | jeblair: this is news to me | 20:54 |
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| annegentle | jeblair: but not with a program owner that I know of | 20:54 |
| mikal | jeblair: I stand possibly corrected | 20:54 |
| lifeless | sdague: and both exist :) | 20:54 |
| * mikal shall search after the meeting | 20:54 | |
| markmc | jeblair, maybe add a link to the review? if you have it handy | 20:54 |
| markmc | ok, 5 minutes left | 20:54 |
| jeblair | we've never asserted that new projects need to go through approval | 20:54 |
| markmc | #topic Open discussion | 20:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:55 | |
| annegentle | jeblair: but we just did that to dolphm right? | 20:55 |
| sdague | yeh, realistically infra starts about 6 - 10 new projects a cycle | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: that was for an *integrated* project | 20:55 |
| sdague | to support the project | 20:55 |
| russellb | annegentle: but that's a part of openstack itself, part of the integrated release | 20:55 |
| markmc | jeblair, so you don't think the TC needs to vote on adding a new project to a program ? | 20:55 |
| jeblair | annegentle: new _integrated_ projects go through approval and review | 20:55 |
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| annegentle | dhellmann: Identity is aprogram | 20:55 |
| annegentle | a space program! | 20:55 |
| markmc | jeblair, raises the question why we're voting on this review, no ? | 20:55 |
| lifeless | markmc: I definitely don't :) | 20:55 |
| jeblair | markmc: no i don't | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: programs aren't integrated, projects are | 20:55 |
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| markmcclain | I don't think we should vote projects that exist to solve internal needs | 20:56 |
| russellb | good point ... is this review just housekeeping, or do we get to have a discussion? | 20:56 |
| jeblair | markmc: i don't think we should vote on it; i think it's a non-material update and the chair should approve it | 20:56 |
| russellb | jeblair: that's how i feel | 20:56 |
| markmc | jeblair, ok, sounds like a job for real_ttx to deliberate over | 20:56 |
| russellb | same with the oslo updates recently | 20:56 |
| markmc | fake_ttx sucks at such things | 20:56 |
| annegentle | jeblair: I'm fine with that but I'm trying to understand the program/project yaml updates that would happen then | 20:56 |
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| jeblair | several other programs have projects that have been created without review too, because they don't affect the integrated release... | 20:56 |
| russellb | fake_ttx has done an excellent job chairing today :-) | 20:56 |
| markmc | jeblair, that said, discussion is good | 20:56 |
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| markmc | jeblair, but we should be clear where the TC has veto rights, for sure | 20:56 |
| jeblair | markmc: sure, i'm happy to talk about why we're doing storyboard and why we think we need it | 20:57 |
| annegentle | jeblair: and I'm good with that, adding repos as needed, of course | 20:57 |
| jeblair | markmc: i'm a little less happy with "-1 so we can talk about it" | 20:57 |
| markmc | jeblair, so as to not give TC members an overly large sense of their own importance :) | 20:57 |
| markmc | jeblair, cool, point taken | 20:57 |
| annegentle | jeblair: and I don't have another program in mind for storyboard, just wanting to understand the program/project yaml and how to review changes to it | 20:57 |
| sdague | yeh, maybe it's just a question of whether the contents of the the "other" chunk is even interesting in this file. Or why we update it there. | 20:58 |
| markmc | jeblair, that said - actually switching over to using it for all projects would be a TC thing, I guess | 20:58 |
| russellb | i think it's a hosuekeeping, ttx approves right away kind of thing, unless it's something that should be going through incubation | 20:58 |
| annegentle | am I making any sense? (about how to review the program/project changes?) | 20:58 |
| dhellmann | as ttx explained it, the point of the list is to figure out who has atc in which programs for ptl elections, so I think it's reasonable to give a quick review to new items on the list -- even non-integrated projects | 20:58 |
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| annegentle | russellb: ah housekeeping makes sense, then we don't have to review as closely/slowly | 20:58 |
| dhellmann | waiting for the tc to vote on oslo changes hasn't held us up | 20:58 |
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| jeblair | markmc: we definetely wouldn't do that without talking to the tc. :) we do plan to switch infra to start dog-fooding it asap. | 20:59 |
| mikal | I think we're out of time now | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | russellb: I disagree for adding new items, but renames should be considered housekeeping | 20:59 |
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| dhellmann | unless the rename is out of stackforge into a program, I guess | 20:59 |
| markmc | jeblair, coolness | 21:00 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: I don't see why the TC should approve what projects in a program grant atc to the program | 21:00 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: isn't that a program responsibility ? | 21:00 |
| markmc | ok, we're out of time | 21:00 |
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| markmc | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| mikal | lifeless: the TC's role is to keep OpenStack moving in a vaguely unified direction | 21:00 |
| markmc | thanks everyone | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 18 21:00:34 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-02-18-20.01.html | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | lifeless: the TC is responsible for project governance, and adding projects with potentially new reviewer teams changes the project -- scope is also a consideration | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-02-18-20.01.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-02-18-20.01.log.html | 21:00 |
| russellb | thanks, markmc! | 21:00 |
| mikal | markmc: thanks for chairing | 21:00 |
| markmc | I guess there's no project meeting now | 21:00 |
| markmc | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:00 |
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| markmc | "Next meeting: February 25, 21:00 UTC " | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | woo a free hour! | 21:01 |
| russellb | yeah, ttx said just cancel this one | 21:01 |
| jeblair | yaay! | 21:01 |
| markmc | russellb, mikal, np, cheers | 21:01 |
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| * jgriffith goes to write mission statement | 21:01 | |
| russellb | big thing is today is feature proposal freeze day | 21:01 |
| russellb | for a number of projects | 21:01 |
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| annegentle | free hour! | 21:01 |
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| hub_cap | hehe horray :) | 21:04 |
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| med_ | russellb, yep, thanks | 21:08 |
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| rwmjones | clarkb: libguestfs should just work on ubuntu 12.04; if not, please file a bug | 22:10 |
| rwmjones | with full libguestfs-test-tool output | 22:10 |
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| rwmjones | see also the notes here: http://libguestfs.org/guestfs-faq.1.html#binaries | 22:10 |
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