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| sdague | #startmeeting qa | 17:02 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 12 17:02:48 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sdague. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'qa' | 17:02 |
| *** DennyZhang has quit IRC | 17:02 | |
| sdague | ok, who's around for the QA meeting? | 17:03 |
| mkoderer | Hi folks :) | 17:03 |
| mtreinish | hi | 17:03 |
| afazekas | hi | 17:03 |
| *** dcramer_ has joined #openstack-meeting | 17:03 | |
| tkammer | hi | 17:03 |
| sdague | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/QATeamMeeting - agenda | 17:03 |
| fnaval_ | hi | 17:03 |
| sdague | ok, first topic | 17:03 |
| sdague | #topic Welcome mkoderer and giulivo to tempest-core | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Welcome mkoderer and giulivo to tempest-core (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:03 | |
| giulivo | :) | 17:03 |
| mkoderer | :) | 17:03 |
| afazekas | welcome | 17:03 |
| jaypipes | afternoon | 17:04 |
| sdague | thanks for all the great work guys, very happy to have you part of tempest-core | 17:04 |
| mkoderer | thank you very much - I am very happy | 17:04 |
| adalbas | hi | 17:04 |
| ravikumar_hp | welcome mkoderer: | 17:04 |
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| mtreinish | yes, great work guys | 17:04 |
| dkranz | indeed | 17:04 |
| mkoderer | giulivo did such a great job, I am happy for him too | 17:04 |
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| sdague | you guys should have all the permissions you need now, if you have any questions on things feel free to just put it out on #openstack-qa | 17:05 |
| mkoderer | I already have my first +A | 17:05 |
| sdague | ok, next topic | 17:05 |
| sdague | mkoderer: nice :) | 17:05 |
| mkoderer | have = gave | 17:05 |
| sdague | #topic Summit planning (sdague) | 17:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit planning (sdague) (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:06 | |
| sdague | so mostly I just wanted to set up some time frames here | 17:06 |
| sdague | while the summit website is open for submissions, I don't intend to really have us look at them or start organizing until Oct | 17:06 |
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| sdague | so probably the first week of Oct we'll put summit content on the agenda | 17:07 |
| ravikumar_hp | sdague: makes sense | 17:07 |
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| sdague | between now and then if interesting ideas come up that you think we should consider, please feel free to file it. But we'll hold until Oct to really make decisions there | 17:07 |
| mtreinish | sdague: just curious how many slots do we have this time? | 17:07 |
| sdague | we have 13 | 17:07 |
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| sdague | they are spread out through the week in 3 blocks | 17:07 |
| sdague | in a room where Infra will be, so we won't conflict this time | 17:08 |
| dkranz | sdague: :) | 17:08 |
| sdague | ttx created a more broken up schedule, which I think is really good | 17:08 |
| dkranz | sdague: Is there a link to it somewhere? | 17:09 |
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| sdague | let me ping him to see if he has a public version of it, I just have a google spreadsheet link which I'm not sure he intended to be public | 17:09 |
| sdague | I'll also see him next week, I'll ask him there | 17:09 |
| sdague | ok, last administrative topic before content | 17:10 |
| sdague | #topic Leader for next week's meeting - sdague on a plane back from LinuxCon during this time | 17:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Leader for next week's meeting - sdague on a plane back from LinuxCon during this time (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:10 | |
| * jaypipes sad he won't be at summit ;( | 17:10 | |
| jaypipes | :( | 17:10 |
| sdague | can I get a volunteer to run the meeting next week | 17:10 |
| jaypipes | no winky.. | 17:10 |
| sdague | jaypipes: bummer | 17:10 |
| jaypipes | yeah... | 17:10 |
| jaypipes | budget poop. | 17:10 |
| mtreinish | sdague: I can do it again | 17:10 |
| mkoderer | mtreinish: +1 | 17:10 |
| mtreinish | jaypipes: that sucks, I'm not sure I can go either | 17:10 |
| sdague | #info mtreinish to run openstack-qa meeting next week | 17:10 |
| sdague | ok, thanks mtreinish | 17:11 |
| * jaypipes will be there in spirit :) | 17:11 | |
| sdague | :) | 17:11 |
| sdague | it actually brings up the question of an intersession qa meetup, which we should maybe consider later. | 17:11 |
| jaypipes | ++ | 17:12 |
| sdague | but maybe we bring that up after we get through the rest of the agenda | 17:12 |
| jaypipes | yes, sorry for tangent | 17:12 |
| sdague | no worries :) | 17:12 |
| sdague | #topic Blueprints (sdague) | 17:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (sdague) (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:12 | |
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| sdague | ok, I'm still catching up from being out, are there updates to blueprints people would like to report on? | 17:12 |
| sdague | I'll try to get things cleaned up from LinuxCon next week from the show floor as well | 17:13 |
| dkranz | sdague: The blueprint about client library stability has basically been implemented by mordred. | 17:13 |
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| dkranz | sdague: Not sure if it has merged yet. | 17:13 |
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| sdague | dkranz: cool, is it landed, or are there reviews that need eyes? | 17:13 |
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| dkranz | sdague: I think it is waiting on some other devstack change. I can dig up the patch link after the meeting. | 17:14 |
| sdague | dkranz: ok, that would be great to make happen before Havana releases, so if we know of reviews that need eyes on that, please let me know | 17:14 |
| sdague | great | 17:14 |
| dkranz | sdague: But it was reviewed favorably | 17:14 |
| sdague | any other blueprints? | 17:14 |
| dkranz | sdague: Will do | 17:14 |
| sdague | I will have to say that everyone owes mtreinish a beer over getting parallel tempest into the gate | 17:15 |
| sdague | that was a huge win last week | 17:15 |
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| sdague | I don't think we'd have survived feature freeze day without it | 17:15 |
| dkranz | sdague: Yes, very much so. | 17:15 |
| dkranz | sdague: It is interesting that even that slight stress has uncovered a lot of things. | 17:15 |
| sdague | It's pretty awesome that tempest tests now take only slightly longer than nova unit tests :) | 17:15 |
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| afazekas | +1 beer to mtreinish :) | 17:16 |
| jaypipes | ++mtreinish | 17:16 |
| mtreinish | thanks everyone, I'll always accept free beers :) | 17:16 |
| afazekas | :) | 17:16 |
| joel-coffman | \quit | 17:16 |
| mkoderer | :) | 17:16 |
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| sdague | yep, the test env has definitely started to act more like real systems, which is very good. shook out a bunch of new races. | 17:16 |
| sdague | ok, anything else on blueprints? | 17:16 |
| sdague | mlavalle: you around? | 17:17 |
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| mlavalle | sdague: yep | 17:17 |
| sdague | #topic neutron testing status (mlavalle) | 17:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "neutron testing status (mlavalle) (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:17 | |
| sdague | ok, you have the floor, where do we stand on neutron? | 17:17 |
| mlavalle | sdague: so, I've been working over the past few days in adding network isolation to enable parallel runs | 17:17 |
| mlavalle | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/45578/ | 17:17 |
| sdague | great, lets get eyes on that review | 17:18 |
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| mlavalle | mtreinish: what do you think? are we good to test it? | 17:18 |
| sdague | mtreinish, especially as you did the last refactor there, I'd like your opinion on it | 17:18 |
| mtreinish | mlavalle, sdague: ok I'll take a look at the latest revision | 17:19 |
| sdague | great, thanks | 17:19 |
| mtreinish | testing it is fun because to enable it to actually run requires a devstack change | 17:19 |
| mtreinish | which can't happen with this patch :) | 17:19 |
| sdague | mtreinish: ok, what's the devstack change we need? | 17:19 |
| sdague | and is that proposed anywhere? | 17:19 |
| mtreinish | sdague: tenant isolation is disabled if neutron is enabled | 17:19 |
| mtreinish | sdague: not yet I was going to put it together after the meeting | 17:20 |
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| sdague | mtreinish: ok, cool | 17:20 |
| afazekas | mtreinish: we can add second change just for testing based on this which reads the config in a different way :) | 17:20 |
| sdague | maybe we need another non-voting job on neutron that sets that | 17:20 |
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| mtreinish | afazekas: yeah that would work too (we could just hard code it to true) | 17:21 |
| sdague | much like we did with testr initially | 17:21 |
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| sdague | any volunteers to make the new devstack gate job for that? | 17:21 |
| mtreinish | sdague: I'm not sure that's really needed (unless you're talking about a neutron parallel run) | 17:21 |
| dkranz | sdague: The preferred way (by infra) to do this now is by using the experimental queue in zuul. | 17:22 |
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| sdague | mtreinish: that's what I mean, neutron parallel job | 17:22 |
| dkranz | sdague: Instead of creating non-voting jobs | 17:22 |
| sdague | dkranz: ok, I haven't looked at the experimental queue | 17:22 |
| sdague | dkranz: ok | 17:22 |
| dkranz | sdague: That's what I did for heat. | 17:23 |
| sdague | I'll have to catch up on that bit, sounds cool | 17:23 |
| sdague | ok, anything else on neutron testing? | 17:23 |
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| mlavalle | sdague: once we get that running, I'll get back to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/fix-gate-tempest-devstack-vm-quantum-full. We've made good progress fixing issues, so this weekend i'll send an email to the ML | 17:23 |
| sdague | what are still our blocking issues on full gate | 17:23 |
| sdague | ok, just what I was about to ask :) | 17:23 |
| sdague | great | 17:23 |
| dkranz | sdague: Some one is working to make all the tests on stable/grizzly work. | 17:23 |
| mlavalle | with an assessment of how close we are to be done | 17:23 |
| dkranz | sdague: Do we want to try to turn on the full gate there once that is done? | 17:24 |
| sdague | #info mlavalle to send status update on full gate for neutron | 17:24 |
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| mlavalle | that's all I have | 17:24 |
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| sdague | dkranz: honestly, stable/grizzly is the past, I'm not interested in fixing it until master is fixed | 17:24 |
| dkranz | sdague: I mean all neutron (quantum) tests | 17:24 |
| dkranz | sdague: He is fixing both | 17:24 |
| sdague | ok | 17:24 |
| dkranz | The question is whether to turn on the full gate in grizzly once he is done. | 17:24 |
| sdague | if it works, I think that's fine | 17:25 |
| dkranz | sdague: OK, I'll tell him we would like to do that and to keep us posted on progress. | 17:25 |
| sdague | sounds good | 17:25 |
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| sdague | ok, next topic | 17:26 |
| sdague | #topic whitebox test removal (sdague) | 17:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "whitebox test removal (sdague) (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:26 | |
| dkranz | sdague: Wasn't it done already :) | 17:26 |
| mtreinish | sdague: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/46116/ | 17:26 |
| sdague | so I think we came to a general concensus on irc the other day to pull whitebox and add nova unit tests | 17:26 |
| sdague | dkranz: well that's only 1/2 of it :) | 17:26 |
| dkranz | sdague: Less than half, work-wise. | 17:27 |
| sdague | because we still need a volunteer to actually do the unit test enhancements on nova so that we cover it | 17:27 |
| afazekas | there is pending keystone whitebox test change on gerrit as well | 17:27 |
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| adalbas | sdague, i can volunteer to take a look on what is covered in nova. | 17:27 |
| sdague | great | 17:27 |
| sdague | #info adalbas to port whitebox tests into nova unit tests | 17:28 |
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| dkranz | Normally I would say wait to remove whitebox but it is breaking the nightly build. | 17:28 |
| sdague | afazekas: so I think we saw with all the whitebox tests that what they were testing was doable in the unit tests by the projects | 17:28 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: yeah that's why I removed it, because it doesn't do anything right now except generate errors | 17:29 |
| sdague | and because the db schemas changed so fast, tempest was really not the best place for them | 17:29 |
| sdague | enhance it closer to the projects | 17:29 |
| dkranz | sdague: I think we all agreed on that. | 17:29 |
| sdague | yep | 17:29 |
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| sdague | ok, so my suggestion is -2 any new whitebox patches that come in if you see them, on that kind of direction | 17:30 |
| sdague | unless there are objections | 17:30 |
| dkranz | sdague: Should send to the ml as well. | 17:30 |
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| sdague | yes, I'll send to ML | 17:30 |
| sdague | #action sdague to send ML email about change in approach for whitebox testing | 17:31 |
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| sdague | ok, next topic | 17:31 |
| sdague | mkollaro: you around/ | 17:31 |
| dkranz | sdague: She is sick today I just found out. | 17:32 |
| sdague | ok | 17:32 |
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| sdague | so let's skip that and just do reviews, then open discussion | 17:32 |
| sdague | #topic Critical Reviews (sdague) | 17:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Critical Reviews (sdague) (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:32 | |
| sdague | ok, critical outstanding reviews that we need eyes on? | 17:32 |
| sdague | links appreciated | 17:32 |
| dkranz | sdague: This is the client lib stability one https://review.openstack.org/#/c/41931/ | 17:32 |
| sdague | great, up in a tab for me, I'll check it later | 17:33 |
| sdague | other ones? | 17:33 |
| adalbas | this one from afazekas https://review.openstack.org/#/c/35165/ | 17:33 |
| adalbas | it might fix a lot of rechecks related to the parallel runs | 17:33 |
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| sdague | ok, great | 17:34 |
| sdague | afazekas: did we land the client changes to support that already? (I remember reviewing it, but I don't remember if it merged) | 17:34 |
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| sdague | I'll review that later today as well | 17:34 |
| sdague | and other eyes would be good | 17:35 |
| afazekas | sdague: the xml version got an approval from you | 17:35 |
| sdague | afazekas: great | 17:35 |
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| sdague | afazekas: yeh, I just couldn't remember if I was the first or second +2 :) | 17:35 |
| afazekas | :) | 17:35 |
| adalbas | i think it got merged | 17:36 |
| sdague | other reviews people think we need extra eyes on? | 17:36 |
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| mkollaro | sdague: I'm here | 17:36 |
| sdague | oh, hey, we can do your topic now | 17:37 |
| sdague | #topic OpenStack qa repo for test plans that can be pointed at from blueprints (mkollaro) | 17:37 |
| mkollaro | sure | 17:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack qa repo for test plans that can be pointed at from blueprints (mkollaro) (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:37 | |
| sdague | mkollaro: you have the floor | 17:37 |
| mkollaro | we want to share the test plans for new features with upstream, I created a repo for them https://github.com/mkollaro/openstack-testplans | 17:38 |
| mkollaro | I was wondering what it would take to get it put under some openstack managed group, so it wouldn't be just mine project and people from the community could contribute to it | 17:38 |
| mkollaro | *my | 17:39 |
| mkollaro | an example of a test plan is here https://github.com/mkollaro/openstack-testplans/blob/master/glance/multilocation.rst | 17:39 |
| mkollaro | they would be linked in the blueprints | 17:40 |
| dkranz | sdague: This was an attempt to address the issue of not enough info in blueprints | 17:40 |
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| sdague | so is there a reason not to use the wiki for these? | 17:40 |
| sdague | I guess that's my only question, the plusses / minusses of doing this in git vs. the openstack wiki | 17:41 |
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| mkollaro | that would be another option...but AFAIK devels don't like to use the wikis too much and I'd like them to work with us around this more | 17:41 |
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| mkollaro | handling test plans as code is better IMHO, since it pretty much _is_ code | 17:42 |
| sdague | I also understand that while the setup is manual, is the intent to turn the actual plan into something like a scenario test (post setup) | 17:42 |
| ravikumar_hp | can we add in whiteborad of blueprint so that all in one place | 17:42 |
| mkollaro | blueprints don't have formatting and nobody is using them | 17:42 |
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| mkollaro | it seems very hard to get devels to use the whiteboard in blueprints | 17:43 |
| mkollaro | I hoped that the combo of git+rst text files would make contributions more likely | 17:43 |
| mkoderer | is there a way to links such a test cases in a blueprint? | 17:43 |
| sdague | mkollaro: I guess this raises the idea about whether if we enhanced some of the markup in the scenario tests if these could be just scenario tests in tempest, plus a preamble that explains the setup | 17:44 |
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| giulivo | mkollaro, is the point of this being tracking the existing cases or both the existing and wanted cases? | 17:44 |
| mkollaro | mkoderer: AFAIK there is no special field for it, but you can paste the link on the whiteboard | 17:44 |
| sdague | because our community is very much about automation, so I feel like just documents for test execution doesn't deliver on the idea of repeatability, though I definitely get the need to have more details | 17:44 |
| mkoderer | mkollaro: ok sure a special field would be nice :) | 17:45 |
| ravikumar_hp | sdague:+1 | 17:46 |
| rockyg | Newbie here. There may be easy to make wiki test cases executable but it would need to be a project | 17:46 |
| mkollaro | sdague: I'm not sure if they should be used only for scenario tests and I'm primarily intending them as a means of communication, not documentation | 17:47 |
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| mkollaro | giulivo: not the existing ones, there are almost 1k test cases, that would be impossible | 17:47 |
| sdague | mkollaro: the problem is test plans that aren't actually test code aren't things we can gate on | 17:47 |
| giulivo | how is this: blueprints map ot plans, a blueprint also has a link to descriptive wiki, but cases are tracked in the blueprint todoitems? | 17:47 |
| dkranz | I think what Sean is asking is why not just provide code that works, rather than pseudo-code instructions? | 17:48 |
| sdague | dkranz: right exactly | 17:48 |
| mkollaro | sdague: yes, but I'm afraid there is no way to do that :( | 17:48 |
| sdague | I could imagine that document could actually be a scenario test, with extensive markup in it | 17:48 |
| sdague | mkollaro: why not? | 17:48 |
| mkollaro | before we get to executable code, we need to figure out a test plan...I spent hours of talking to the devel before I wrote that one I linked | 17:49 |
| mkollaro | after we got code, the test plan can be pretty much removed as far as I care | 17:49 |
| rockyg | Sdague: yes. That is what cucumber test tool does | 17:50 |
| sdague | mkollaro: so if it's transient like that, then I think etherpad or wiki is better than git | 17:50 |
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| sdague | because then we can mark it as done once it's landed in code | 17:50 |
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| giulivo | that's why I wanted to use the todoitems | 17:51 |
| mkollaro | the problem is, nobody really writes down some expected behavior of a feature or even some basic description...this could help with that | 17:51 |
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| rockyg | Mkollaro:why not submit plan as big to be executed and reviewed? | 17:51 |
| sdague | rockyg: right, but we already have a test framework, so while I like cucumber in theory, I think in practice it's not the right direction for us right now | 17:51 |
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| rockyg | Sorry. Bug. | 17:52 |
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| sdague | mkollaro: so I think I understand the problem, but I'm not sure another git repo is going to solve it. | 17:52 |
| mkollaro | sdague: wikis wouldn't be so easily parsable, there is this idea of creating some replacement of our (redhat) current test plan system or upload it there with some script | 17:52 |
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| sdague | mkollaro: ok, how would you expect this would become part of OpenStack validation eventually? | 17:53 |
| mkollaro | this could be easily doable with the rst format, if we ever want that | 17:53 |
| mkollaro | sdague: what do you mean by validation? | 17:53 |
| sdague | the gate, or other tools we make available to people to verify openstack is working | 17:54 |
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| mkollaro | sdague: I never meant this as a validation thing, more like a communication channel | 17:54 |
| dkranz | sdague: I think what we want here is a way to extract information from a developer and "add it to the blueprint" in some other way than literally doing that. | 17:55 |
| sdague | ok, so I feel like in OpenStack our culture is that we communicate with code, which is why we don't just have HACKING.rst, but actually executable hacking checks | 17:56 |
| sdague | I think this is probably a good design summit topic | 17:56 |
| mkollaro | sdague: yeah, but we need to figure out first how to write the test, typically together with the devel | 17:56 |
| dkranz | sdague: Yes, but if I talk to a dev and take notes, code does not come out right away. ANd some one else might right the actual code. | 17:56 |
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| dkranz | write | 17:56 |
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| dkranz | We are not going to solve this in our remaining two minutes | 17:57 |
| sdague | agreed | 17:57 |
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| sdague | ok, so should we take it to the mailing list? or do we want to let this simmer until summit? | 17:58 |
| mkollaro | but in case I decided to use wikis, where could I put the test plan? | 17:58 |
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| sdague | mkollaro: we'd make a namespace in the OpenStack wiki for them. | 17:58 |
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| dkranz | sdague: Can any one do that? | 17:59 |
| sdague | so in our last 2 minutes, mostly I want to figure out where we want to continue the conversation | 17:59 |
| sdague | dkranz: yep | 17:59 |
| mkollaro | I don't really see why a wiki would be an improvement over git+rst, but if you really prefer that, sure | 17:59 |
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| sdague | mkollaro / dkranz: want to take this to the ML? | 18:00 |
| rockyg | How about proposal on ml to flesh out topic for summit? | 18:00 |
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| dkranz | sdague: OK, we'll think about it. | 18:00 |
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| sdague | cool, sounds good. whatever forum you want to, I think there are interesting ideas here, just need to explore it more | 18:01 |
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| sdague | ok, with that we're over, so I'll end up things | 18:01 |
| sdague | #endingmeeting | 18:01 |
| sdague | #endmeeting | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 12 18:01:35 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-09-12-17.02.html | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-09-12-17.02.txt | 18:01 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-09-12-17.02.log.html | 18:01 |
| bdpayne | #startmeeting OpenStack Security Group | 18:01 |
| sdague | thanks for comming folks, lets talk on #openstack-qa | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 12 18:01:47 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group' | 18:01 |
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| bdpayne | Hi OSSG | 18:02 |
| thomasbiege | hey! | 18:02 |
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| bdpayne | I know I've been out for a couple of weeks, so I have some catching up to do | 18:02 |
| sriramhere | hello! | 18:02 |
| malini1 | Good morning! | 18:02 |
| bdpayne | #topic Status of Action Items | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status of Action Items (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:02 | |
| bdpayne | Let's start by reviewing where everyone is at with their work | 18:03 |
| bdpayne | Anyone have somethign to report? | 18:03 |
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| bdpayne | sriramhere would you like to update on the security tagged of blueprints and what you learned there? | 18:03 |
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| thomasbiege | no progress on the automatic testing, too much work for my company ATM ;) | 18:04 |
| sriramhere | couple of things there | 18:04 |
| sriramhere | 1) blueprints don't provide any easy way out there | 18:04 |
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| sriramhere | 2) so the work around was security group to actively track blueprints and followup with bugs to trigger notifications | 18:04 |
| sriramhere | i think rellerreller took action to look in to a way to trawl blueprints | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | crawl? | 18:05 |
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| bdpayne | ah yes, I see that action from 8/29 | 18:05 |
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| sriramhere | yes | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | excellent | 18:06 |
| bdpayne | the APL people couldn't make it today | 18:06 |
| bdpayne | so we can sync on that next week | 18:06 |
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| sriramhere | ok | 18:06 |
| bdpayne | so I have a few updates on my end | 18:06 |
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| bdpayne | First, I got the wiki page up to help people with how to get involved | 18:06 |
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| sriramhere | gr8 - where is the link? | 18:06 |
| bdpayne | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Security/How_To_Contribute | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | since it is a wiki, feel free to update and improve | 18:07 |
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| bdpayne | I tried to take people's comments from the google doc into account, but didn't get everything in there | 18:07 |
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| sriramhere | i have a followup action on that - to add section on how OSSG can get involved early on | 18:08 |
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| bdpayne | I also linked to this from the general how to contibute page https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/How_To_Contribute | 18:08 |
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| sriramhere | i couldn't make progress on that, will try to get something out before monday | 18:08 |
| sriramhere | great bpayne! | 18:08 |
| sriramhere | bpayne | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | by early on you mean during design phase? | 18:08 |
| sriramhere | sorry | 18:08 |
| sriramhere | yes | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | ah, excellent | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | personally, I'd like to take a couple of passes to make it more words and less bullets | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | but this is a nice starting place | 18:09 |
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| bdpayne | and I'm happy to refine over time | 18:09 |
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| bdpayne | #action sriramhere to add info to wiki about getting involved early in the design process | 18:10 |
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| bdpayne | #action bdpayne to continue improving presentation / wording on how to contribute wiki page | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | My other news is about the OpenStack Security Guide | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | a few of the authors (myself included) were on a panel at a government conference last week | 18:11 |
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| bdpayne | on a whim, we decided to do a book signing | 18:11 |
| bdpayne | Red Hat pitched in a bought 100 copies to give away | 18:11 |
| sriramhere | neat! | 18:11 |
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| randy_perryman | nicde | 18:11 |
| randy_perryman | nice | 18:11 |
| bdpayne | the net result… we had a line out the door and gave away all of the books, signing them all, to very happy recipients | 18:12 |
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| bdpayne | we also collected donations for the OpenStack Foundation, so a little money made it's way back to the cause | 18:12 |
| sriramhere | wow! have any pic? would be a great slide | 18:12 |
| bdpayne | you know, a pic would have been great, but I didn't get one | 18:12 |
| malini1 | WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! | 18:13 |
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| sriramhere | neat - can u share more abt the conference please (if its sharable)? | 18:13 |
| malini1 | I am totally psyched, that was such a gcool idea and a line to grab the book signed! | 18:13 |
| bdpayne | oh, and there are pictures online from the book sprint now too http://www.flickr.com/photos/101584348@N06/ | 18:14 |
| bdpayne | for anyone interested | 18:14 |
| bdpayne | those are from all booksprints by our facilitator… but if you scroll down you'll see us in there | 18:14 |
| malini1 | BTW, I pitched our book at Intel Developer Conference in San Francisco this week during my presentation | 18:14 |
| bdpayne | this was the conference http://www.oss-institute.org/calendar/upcoming-events/event/47 | 18:14 |
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| malini1 | Mentioned the book at a customer visit too | 18:15 |
| sriramhere | awesome malini, how was the response? | 18:15 |
| DennyZhang | /msg mtreinish hi matthew, I thanks for your comment in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/46315/. After abandon that one, I send a new one: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/46324/ | 18:15 |
| DennyZhang | 18:15 | |
| malini1 | 150 attendees, hopefully some will get to the link | 18:15 |
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| bdpayne | excellent | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | the book has been a great tool to get more people excited about OpenStack security and perhaps to get some involved | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | My other update is with the logo | 18:16 |
| sriramhere | absolutely! | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | I'm *still* awaiting approval from the powers that be | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | they tell me that they are discussing it and haven't forgotten about me | 18:17 |
| malini1 | It turns out Dell has a product called Crossbar to set up among other things trusted book of platform, but for general openstack consumption it needs to be more a part of Chef/puppet | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | so, I'll continue to wait | 18:17 |
| malini1 | :-) :-) | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | any other updates? | 18:17 |
| sriramhere | crowbar or crossbar? | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | crowbar, I imagine | 18:18 |
| randy_perryman | I know of Crowbar as I am on that project | 18:18 |
| malini1 | Thanks Bryan for looking at the glossary, my TODO there is to make references in the chapters to the Glossary, been busy with other things .. hopefully over the weekend a little more time on it | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | #action malini1 to work on linking glossary into security guide | 18:18 |
| malini1 | Wow! we have experts on crowbar here | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | malini1 any update on the slide deck? | 18:19 |
| malini1 | Randy-perryman -- do you thing we can make some openstack-friendly thing or would that be conflict of interest | 18:19 |
| bdpayne | malini1 I think Brian Schott may be able to help you with the slides, if that's useful | 18:19 |
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| malini1 | :-) slow, extremely sorry, i put in a few slides for customer visit, so we have more but not complete | 18:20 |
| bdpayne | perhaps for content generation we could put the slides up as a Google Doc? | 18:20 |
| malini1 | i will ping Brian. SriramHere was SriramNoWhere .. on slides .. | 18:20 |
| sriramhere | i am also sorry, couldn't add more slides as malini and i were planning on? | 18:20 |
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| bdpayne | I probably have a few that would be applicable that I could drop in | 18:21 |
| malini1 | that would be good instead of flating around as a powerpoint | 18:21 |
| malini1 | bryan, can powerpoint port to googledocs with a click? | 18:21 |
| bdpayne | yes | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | then you can export back to pptx when you are done with google docs, if you want | 18:22 |
| malini1 | End of day will send you my latest set and then lets work via google docs on it | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | sounds good | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | ok great | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | so that was a lot of catching up | 18:22 |
| sriramhere | sriramnowhere will try be sriramhere | 18:22 |
| sriramhere | on slides :) | 18:23 |
| bdpayne | ha nice! | 18:23 |
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| malini1 | :-) | 18:23 |
| bdpayne | summit talk accepts / rejects should come out soon | 18:23 |
| sriramhere | do we have a google site somewhere, or just individual google drive, shared via email? | 18:23 |
| bdpayne | and I believe dev sessions are open for submission at this time? | 18:23 |
| sriramhere | <bpayne> fingers crossed | 18:24 |
| sriramhere | yes, they are | 18:24 |
| bdpayne | sriramhere just the latter | 18:24 |
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| bdpayne | #action so, next week I'd like to chat a bit in this meeting about our strategy for the summit | 18:24 |
| bdpayne | anything else on people's minds for today? | 18:25 |
| sriramhere | any dev/ test submissions planned? | 18:25 |
| bdpayne | not that I'm aware of | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | but, I bet *someone* is | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | I may be involved in some RBAC work this cycle… stay tuned ;-) | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | really more security policy than RBAC… details are evolving a bit | 18:26 |
| sriramhere | cool! just to be clear, security related is what i meant. | 18:27 |
| bdpayne | yeah, I know that there's been some talk about automated security dev / test | 18:27 |
| sriramhere | open thought - may need to brainstorm | 18:27 |
| bdpayne | but I haven't seen anything concrete in place yes | 18:27 |
| bdpayne | s/yes/yet/ | 18:27 |
| sriramhere | any interest in compliance engine kind of work? | 18:27 |
| bdpayne | you mean to validate the compliance of a particular deployment? | 18:28 |
| sriramhere | an engine or appliance that would monitor your cloud to validate/ warn for compliance | 18:28 |
| sriramhere | yes | 18:28 |
| sriramhere | not just SCAP kind of | 18:28 |
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| bdpayne | oh, heh | 18:28 |
| bdpayne | I was about to mention that the SCAP guys are working on some openstack specific stuff | 18:29 |
| bdpayne | but that's not what you mean? | 18:29 |
| sriramhere | yes | 18:29 |
| bdpayne | so yeah, there's work happening there | 18:30 |
| sriramhere | like, can scap monitor violations coming from guests? | 18:30 |
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| malini1 | bdpayne -- on the how to get involved "bullets" are fine, they are pithy and to the point | 18:30 |
| sriramhere | ok - may be needs a snippet, follow up via email | 18:30 |
| bdpayne | from guests… you'd probably want to run SCAP inside the guests then | 18:30 |
| sriramhere | cool - good to know on SCAP work | 18:30 |
| bdpayne | ok, thanks everyone… I think that's all for today | 18:30 |
| bdpayne | #endmeeting | 18:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:31 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 12 18:31:05 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:31 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-09-12-18.01.html | 18:31 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-09-12-18.01.txt | 18:31 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-09-12-18.01.log.html | 18:31 |
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| harlowja | #start-meeting state-management | 20:00 |
| harlowja | #startmeeting state-management | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 12 20:00:11 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is harlowja. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'state_management' | 20:00 |
| harlowja | ya, got it right, ha | 20:00 |
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| harlowja | howdy all | 20:01 |
| iv_m | hi there | 20:01 |
| harlowja | hi there | 20:01 |
| changbl | hello | 20:01 |
| harlowja | hi hi | 20:01 |
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| harlowja | so lets see | 20:01 |
| harlowja | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management/2013/state_management.2013-09-05-20.00.html | 20:01 |
| harlowja | #topic last-week-actions | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "last-week-actions (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:02 | |
| harlowja | so i did the actions items there, for making sure the review that went in for mostly unification of engines is documented and bugs assigned, ya for that :) | 20:02 |
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| harlowja | anastisia is working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/taskflow/+bug/1221448 | 20:02 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1221448 in taskflow "Re-integrate graph flow" [Critical,In progress] | 20:02 |
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| harlowja | and https://bugs.launchpad.net/taskflow/+bug/1221505 will follow that | 20:03 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1221505 in taskflow "Re-integrate threaded flow" [Critical,New] | 20:03 |
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| harlowja | so i think that was all the stuff there :) | 20:04 |
| harlowja | oh ya, nearly forgot | 20:04 |
| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/StateManagement#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 20:04 |
| harlowja | #topic status | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "status (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:04 | |
| harlowja | any one want to report anything interesting in status, i think its mostly heads-down work at the moment :) | 20:05 |
| harlowja | fixing up those bugs, reviewing alot (me) | 20:05 |
| harlowja | and communication with others on new people wanting to use taskflow :) | 20:05 |
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| harlowja | iv_m changbl anything u want to report? | 20:05 |
| harlowja | *if not thats fine also | 20:05 |
| changbl | we have people here want to use taskflow:) | 20:06 |
| harlowja | sweet | 20:06 |
| harlowja | +2 | 20:06 |
| harlowja | ha | 20:06 |
| changbl | they are very interested, and by end of this year, we have to deliver a demo, which will use transational orchestration | 20:07 |
| harlowja | nice, hopefully taskflow can help alot there | 20:07 |
| changbl | I gave a presentation, and we will use taskflow | 20:07 |
| harlowja | awesome | 20:07 |
| harlowja | is it for a public project (or something else?) | 20:07 |
| changbl | at&t internal | 20:07 |
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| harlowja | cool | 20:07 |
| changbl | at least for this moment | 20:07 |
| harlowja | np | 20:07 |
| harlowja | any usage that helps people do there stuff better is good usage :) | 20:08 |
| changbl | btw, i do want to say something about engine/storage/flow | 20:08 |
| harlowja | sure | 20:08 |
| harlowja | go for it :) | 20:08 |
| changbl | first, thanks you guys for the code, great work | 20:08 |
| changbl | my concern is that I find it harder to use the library :) | 20:09 |
| harlowja | thx iv_m :) | 20:09 |
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| harlowja | define harder? | 20:09 |
| kebray | hello | 20:09 |
| harlowja | hi kebray | 20:09 |
| changbl | first, you need to define tasks, then define flows, then define engines, then to inject some storage | 20:09 |
| harlowja | ok | 20:09 |
| changbl | i am not sure this give people impression that they need to learn a lot before using this library | 20:10 |
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| iv_m | tasks was there anyway; everything else i think should be done by job | 20:10 |
| kebray | Can we make it so a user just defines tasks and their relationships, and that's it, done! There should be a default engine. | 20:11 |
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| harlowja | well something has to run them :-p | 20:11 |
| harlowja | but ya, i think i see where changbl is coming from, and i think we can make it a little more streamlined | 20:11 |
| iv_m | agreed | 20:12 |
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| harlowja | like i think define tasks, define flows will be a prerequsite | 20:12 |
| changbl | thanks harlowja. I think defining tasks is necessary, and probably so is flow. This actually reflect the name of this library, TaskFlow. Then storage and engines are by default, no need be explicit | 20:12 |
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| harlowja | agreed, would it help if we documented the different components better also? | 20:13 |
| kebray | agreed. Keep-it-simple. | 20:13 |
| harlowja | explaining the 4 major pieces that currently exist (flow, task, engine, storage) | 20:13 |
| changbl | sure, harlowja | 20:13 |
| kebray | Storage and Engines should be configured by the service operator (for defaults and whether or not they allow you to switch from those defaults in code or not). | 20:14 |
| harlowja | sure | 20:14 |
| harlowja | except service operator in taskflow is the library operator :) | 20:14 |
| kebray | But, Tasks and Relations (what ya'll are calling the flow) should be enough to run on any TaskFlow compatible service. | 20:14 |
| kebray | sure, library operator... but, it's in a config file :-) | 20:14 |
| harlowja | well thats up to the library operator to make that config file :) | 20:15 |
| kebray | hence the service operator is the one with permissions to edit the config file.. just so happens to be the developer :-) | 20:15 |
| harlowja | k, as long as taskflow doesn't force this config file on people | 20:15 |
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| kebray | what's wrong with a config file? | 20:16 |
| harlowja | a library to me doesn't say u must use config files to use this library | 20:16 |
| kebray | Sure... the library can have defaults. | 20:16 |
| harlowja | a library lets the surronding application decide that | 20:16 |
| harlowja | defaults sure, but defaults != config file | 20:16 |
| kebray | agreed | 20:17 |
| harlowja | for example, the library takes a configuration object, the surronding application using the library can translate the config file they use into that configuration object | 20:17 |
| kebray | ok. I concede. | 20:17 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:17 |
| harlowja | haha | 20:18 |
| kebray | pew pew | 20:18 |
| harlowja | ya, i'm trying to get rid of oslo.cfg dependency in taskflow, its releated to this :-P | 20:18 |
| harlowja | oslo.cfg forces a config file on people | 20:18 |
| harlowja | #action harlowja document (flow, task, engine, storage) and those concepts | 20:18 |
| harlowja | iv_m do u want to document some ideas on how we might make it more simple to just use flow, task? | 20:19 |
| harlowja | or make it really easy to just say make an engine | 20:19 |
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| kebray | ok... in the case of just using the library, it's ok then if the library defaults to one engine, but all of our docs and examples should show how to set the desired engine. e.g. set engine(default = blah); define task 1; define task 2;, define flow; flow.execute() | 20:19 |
| iv_m | we've got jobs in taskflow | 20:20 |
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| iv_m | i think that's the job that has to put everything together | 20:20 |
| * kebray wants a reminder why we have jobs? we don't need so many primitives! | 20:20 | |
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| harlowja | kebray those are pseudo-code so i wouldn't exactly quote them ;) | 20:20 |
| kebray | my pseudo-code won't execute? doh... my degrees is useless. | 20:21 |
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| harlowja | so the job is the top level 'job' for a 'action' | 20:21 |
| harlowja | haha | 20:21 |
| harlowja | *sorry, top level connector u could call it | 20:21 |
| kebray | doh.. not actions again. | 20:21 |
| changbl | I have same convern with kebray , too many primitives... :) | 20:21 |
| harlowja | nope | 20:21 |
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| harlowja | to me there is a valid reason for these primitives :) | 20:21 |
| harlowja | jobs has been there from the start folks :-P | 20:22 |
| harlowja | ;) | 20:22 |
| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StructuredWorkflowPrimitives#Jobs | 20:22 |
| kebray | +1 for fewer primitives. | 20:22 |
| changbl | at least we need very clear definition of them | 20:22 |
| harlowja | ya, thats why i made that wiki a long time ago, ha | 20:22 |
| kebray | why do we need jobs? that link doesn't say what a job is good for. | 20:22 |
| changbl | i read it, but memory fades quickly ... | 20:22 |
| harlowja | lol | 20:23 |
| kebray | harlowja I encouraged getting rid of jobs back then ;-) | 20:23 |
| harlowja | hmmmm, idk | 20:23 |
| harlowja | nice try kebray | 20:23 |
| harlowja | ha | 20:23 |
| kebray | so, why are jobs needed? | 20:23 |
| changbl | but I clearly remember task and flow, because of the name of this library :) | 20:23 |
| harlowja | lol | 20:23 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:24 |
| harlowja | kebray so | 20:24 |
| harlowja | sooo | 20:24 |
| harlowja | so lets say we have an api, 'nova-boot' | 20:24 |
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| harlowja | it is itself composed of many different flows | 20:24 |
| harlowja | across various components | 20:24 |
| harlowja | how do u connect them all together? | 20:25 |
| kebray | when you say flows here, you don't mean TaskFlow flows, correct? | 20:25 |
| kebray | or do you? | 20:25 |
| harlowja | i am thinking in taskflow terms here | 20:25 |
| kebray | ok. | 20:25 |
| harlowja | *but we can change the term if u want* | 20:25 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:26 |
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| kebray | so, implementation of nova-boot... there may be more than one TaskFlow flow that make up the full nova-boot implementation. got it. | 20:26 |
| harlowja | right, and at any time there is likely one 'thing' doing that set of 'flows' | 20:26 |
| kebray | ? | 20:26 |
| changbl | harlowja, why is there more than one flow? | 20:26 |
| changbl | i mean for nova-boot | 20:26 |
| kebray | yeah, one could argue that you could composite those individual flows into one flow. | 20:27 |
| harlowja | sure, ok, so ya u could use composites i think, but lets say not everyone can change there whole architecture to use composites | 20:27 |
| kebray | and, the one flow IS the job. | 20:27 |
| harlowja | which i don't think nova and others can | 20:27 |
| kebray | so, job = flow. | 20:27 |
| kebray | change architecture? Not sure what you mean.. TaskFlow would be new. | 20:28 |
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| harlowja | ok, change architecture meaning nova-boot is really split across 3-4 nova components right now | 20:28 |
| harlowja | so it would be tough for them to initially unify it under a composite (i think) | 20:29 |
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| harlowja | *conductor here can help | 20:29 |
| harlowja | so thats part uno of jobs), being that top level connecting thing | 20:29 |
| kebray | hmm.. ok. | 20:29 |
| harlowja | wait till the end for questions, ha | 20:29 |
| harlowja | ha | 20:29 |
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| harlowja | lol | 20:29 |
| harlowja | haha | 20:29 |
| kebray | so, you now are talking about the multiple flows running on multiple distributed systems... sounds like... eh, you know what I'm gonna say ;-) ok, let's wait and finish discussing at the end. | 20:30 |
| harlowja | so the other part of the job that i think is relevant, and iv_m is referring to is that a job also connects the flows to there storage (state) | 20:30 |
| harlowja | job == storage + other metadata + flows to be done | 20:30 |
| harlowja | ha | 20:31 |
| * kebray thinks the simple case needs to work without a job, including storage state :-/ | 20:31 | |
| changbl | +1 kebray | 20:31 |
| changbl | :) | 20:31 |
| harlowja | and this job thing, i think if done correctly (maybe) is this root level thing (or reference to thing) that we can put in zookeeper, so that the job can be transfeered to another entity if the entity running that job craps the bucket | 20:31 |
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| harlowja | so thats my definition of a job | 20:32 |
| changbl | folks, I envision when applying taskflow to OpenStack, defining tasks will be the main heavy-lifting work. Running them could be as simple as one-liner, like: results = Flow(task1, task2, task3, multi_threaded=True, context={}).run() | 20:32 |
| kebray | distributed solves that problem at the engine, without needing to plug zookeeper in for jobs. | 20:32 |
| kebray | fwiw :-) | 20:32 |
| harlowja | sure sure | 20:32 |
| changbl | btw, I will help on zookeeper, stay tuned | 20:33 |
| harlowja | changbl so the engine rework was to get away from flows knowing about how they run, thats beneficial in that u can iterate on the thing that does the running independently of the flow itself | 20:33 |
| kebray | alright.. I've caused enough trouble. You can continue the meeting harlowja. I'll keep up my opinion during open questions or on separate IRC channel. | 20:33 |
| harlowja | kebray but its question time | 20:34 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:34 |
| kebray | perfect! | 20:34 |
| harlowja | lol | 20:34 |
| harlowja | changbl so yes, it does make Flow(task1, task2, task3, multi_threaded=True,) harder to do as 1 object, but i think 2 objects not so hard :) | 20:34 |
| changbl | harlowja, hmmm, about the "benefit of iterating on the thing", what is that? | 20:34 |
| harlowja | the engine basically | 20:35 |
| kebray | So, can I define two tasks, their relation, define the storage state and engine I want, then execute? Or, do I have to create a job... or actions(?) or blocks, or whatever other primitives? | 20:35 |
| * kebray really needs to download and play with latest code. | 20:35 | |
| changbl | +1 kebray ! | 20:35 |
| harlowja | kebray ya, download the code | 20:35 |
| harlowja | ha | 20:35 |
| changbl | :) | 20:35 |
| harlowja | kebray u create 2 tasks, their releation, then hand it off to engine | 20:36 |
| harlowja | u don't need to create a job at the moment | 20:36 |
| kebray | #action kebray use TaskFlow and provide feedback next week | 20:36 |
| harlowja | +2 | 20:36 |
| harlowja | lol | 20:36 |
| iv_m | i think we can provide a callable that creates engine and runs flow on it, like taskflow.run(flow, cfg=None) | 20:36 |
| harlowja | iv_m agreed, that would probably be pretty useful | 20:36 |
| kebray | +1 iv_m | 20:37 |
| iv_m | #action iv_m implement taskflow.run | 20:37 |
| harlowja | sweet | 20:37 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:37 |
| changbl | +1 iv_m anything that makes the library simpler to use | 20:37 |
| harlowja | +1 changbl iv_m | 20:37 |
| harlowja | i think as a library u guys are spot on, we need to make it possible to use the basics simply, but not limit those who want to use more than the basics | 20:38 |
| kebray | agreed. | 20:38 |
| changbl | +1 harlowja definitely, advanced users deserve advanced features | 20:39 |
| harlowja | anyway, lets switch topic a little, ha | 20:39 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:39 |
| harlowja | #topic resumption | 20:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "resumption (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:39 | |
| harlowja | so might not be much to talk about here, but just wanting to ack to folks that we are continuing workin on this | 20:39 |
| harlowja | iv_m was helping clear up what states are valid and such for this | 20:40 |
| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TaskFlow/States_of_Task_and_Flow | 20:40 |
| harlowja | the vendor specific states are an intreesting idea | 20:40 |
| kebray | I gotta run folks.. sorry for the storm of questions. I'll try out the library as soon as I can and try to be more constructive with ya'lls time. | 20:41 |
| harlowja | kebray its ok :) | 20:41 |
| harlowja | its ok boss | 20:41 |
| harlowja | lol | 20:41 |
| harlowja | anyways, if people want to read that over, check it out | 20:41 |
| harlowja | thx to iv_m for doing that | 20:41 |
| harlowja | *starting that | 20:42 |
| changbl | +1 iv_m harlowja . Just wonder, who will be vendors? :) | 20:42 |
| harlowja | ya, the naming is a good question | 20:42 |
| harlowja | ha | 20:42 |
| harlowja | so imagine a driver in nova | 20:42 |
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| harlowja | the task would be like call driver() create | 20:42 |
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| harlowja | but the driver may have its own mini-set of states its going through | 20:43 |
| harlowja | *now composite flows here can also solve this | 20:43 |
| harlowja | but lets say that not everything can adapt to composites at the moment | 20:43 |
| harlowja | so the driver itself may go through something like [libvirt_turned_on, libvirt_didXYZ, libvirt_done] | 20:43 |
| harlowja | while the surronding task would go through [pending, started, running, stopped] | 20:43 |
| changbl | fair enough, I got it:) thanks | 20:44 |
| changbl | good idea! | 20:44 |
| harlowja | ya, it will be useful for cinder/nova (others i think) | 20:44 |
| harlowja | also the other one thats likely useful to talk about | 20:44 |
| changbl | one question: do we handle station transition from say RUNNING => LIBVIRT_ON? | 20:44 |
| iv_m | to me that looks like progress notification, only with named states instead of percents | 20:44 |
| changbl | s/station/state/ | 20:44 |
| harlowja | negative | 20:44 |
| harlowja | so i don't think so changbl | 20:45 |
| harlowja | not at the moment, those will be more of like substates that only the driver is aware of | 20:45 |
| changbl | harlowja, iv_m, ok, i see, just notification/reporting purpose | 20:45 |
| harlowja | i think so, to start | 20:45 |
| harlowja | if the driver itself can resume from say ' libvirt_didXYZ' then it can try, but taskflow i don't think will help much there | 20:46 |
| harlowja | since its sort of outside taskflow 'control' | 20:46 |
| changbl | ok, fair enough | 20:46 |
| harlowja | cool | 20:46 |
| harlowja | other one that is sorta releated | 20:46 |
| harlowja | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/taskflow/+spec/task-progress | 20:46 |
| harlowja | similar purpose, but as iv_m said this one is more the percentage number :) | 20:47 |
| harlowja | and not the state name [libvirt_turned_on, libvirt_didXYZ, libvirt_done] | 20:47 |
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| harlowja | the above would be like [33% , 66%, 100%] | 20:47 |
| harlowja | (at the end of each state) | 20:47 |
| harlowja | useful for doing progress like stuff | 20:47 |
| harlowja | so then u could say `nova boot --poll` might actually do something nice :) | 20:48 |
| harlowja | thats the general idea there | 20:48 |
| harlowja | *more details in that blueprint | 20:48 |
| changbl | so the numbers are, say your have n tasks, then 1/n * 100%, 2/n * 100%,, .... n/n * 100%,? Or you have other way to compute the percentage? | 20:48 |
| harlowja | we should have the percentage, i think part of this also is about letting the 'driver' report subtask progress also (in that example) | 20:49 |
| harlowja | so taskflow can emit 1/n * 100 | 20:49 |
| changbl | ok | 20:50 |
| harlowja | and the individual task (the thing that calls the driver can let the driver report 0-100%) also | 20:50 |
| changbl | cool | 20:50 |
| harlowja | so that seems like a nice to have | 20:51 |
| harlowja | lets see | 20:51 |
| harlowja | otherwise, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/taskflow/+spec/flow-verification is also another one i'm (and iv_m) working on | 20:52 |
| harlowja | feel free to check those out | 20:52 |
| harlowja | #topic new use-cases | 20:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "new use-cases (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:52 | |
| harlowja | so just want to do a couple of shout-outs | 20:52 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:52 |
| changbl | go ahead~ | 20:52 |
| harlowja | savannah people recently started trying to figure out how to use taskflow | 20:53 |
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| harlowja | so +1 for that | 20:53 |
| changbl | +1 ! | 20:53 |
| harlowja | after meeting with nexenta, they are very interested (for more cinder usage) | 20:53 |
| changbl | softare-defined storage? | 20:53 |
| harlowja | ya | 20:53 |
| harlowja | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/45376/ | 20:53 |
| harlowja | so they want to help make sure it can be used in cinder (and elsewhere), so thats great | 20:54 |
| harlowja | john garbutt (nova core) is also hoping in Icehouse we can get soem more traction in nova | 20:54 |
| harlowja | so thats great to | 20:54 |
| changbl | nice! | 20:54 |
| harlowja | and billingstack is of course still working on using taskflow | 20:54 |
| harlowja | so thats all good stuff, more usage the better :) | 20:55 |
| harlowja | ok, end shoutouts, ha | 20:55 |
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| harlowja | and at&t | 20:55 |
| harlowja | :-p | 20:55 |
| changbl | :) | 20:55 |
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| harlowja | alright, not much time left, but lets open up for anything left over | 20:55 |
| harlowja | #topic open-discuss | 20:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open-discuss (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:55 | |
| harlowja | oh, other news | 20:55 |
| harlowja | iv_m has been helping alot (thx ivan) with taskflow, so he's in taskflow-core (yaaa) | 20:56 |
| harlowja | +1 iv_m | 20:56 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:56 |
| changbl | yaaa | 20:56 |
| changbl | +1 iv_m | 20:56 |
| iv_m | thx) | 20:56 |
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| harlowja | and lets see, that about all i got, ha | 20:56 |
| changbl | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/45376/ i see this one got -2? | 20:56 |
| harlowja | feature freeze for cinder | 20:57 |
| harlowja | so i think thats the main reason | 20:57 |
| changbl | all right... but create_volume is taskflow-based right? | 20:57 |
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| harlowja | yup | 20:57 |
| changbl | k | 20:57 |
| changbl | more questions I will ping you guys in the project channel | 20:58 |
| harlowja | cool | 20:58 |
| harlowja | other idea, thinking about summit sessions | 20:58 |
| harlowja | keep it in mind | 20:58 |
| harlowja | likely can have quite a few of them if we want :-P | 20:58 |
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| changbl | not going :( | 20:58 |
| harlowja | :( | 20:58 |
| harlowja | durn | 20:59 |
| changbl | i voted for your talk, you guys have fun there:) | 20:59 |
| harlowja | anyways, time pretty much up | 20:59 |
| harlowja | thx! :) | 20:59 |
| harlowja | channel #openstack-state-management for any more stuff | 20:59 |
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| harlowja | thx all for coming | 20:59 |
| harlowja | till next week | 20:59 |
| harlowja | *or anytime in the above channel | 20:59 |
| harlowja | #endmeeting | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 12 20:59:48 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management/2013/state_management.2013-09-12-20.00.html | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management/2013/state_management.2013-09-12-20.00.txt | 20:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management/2013/state_management.2013-09-12-20.00.log.html | 20:59 |
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| russellb | #startmeeting nova | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 12 21:00:59 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| russellb | hello, everyone! | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 21:01 |
| mriedem1 | hi | 21:01 |
| dansmith | yo | 21:01 |
| russellb | anyone else here? :-) | 21:01 |
| dripton | hi | 21:01 |
| alaski | hi | 21:01 |
| russellb | cool. | 21:01 |
| melwitt | hi | 21:01 |
| hartsocks | he | 21:01 |
| russellb | #topic havana | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "havana (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:02 | |
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| russellb | congratulations to everyone on getting havana-3 released! | 21:02 |
| russellb | 91 blueprints and 200+ bug fixes | 21:02 |
| russellb | err, 47 blueprints in h3 i mean | 21:02 |
| russellb | 91 across all of H | 21:02 |
| russellb | our next target is to produce a release candidate (RC1) | 21:02 |
| russellb | #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/havana-rc1 | 21:03 |
| russellb | there is not set date for rc1, it's whenever we're ready | 21:03 |
| russellb | so we basically need to produce the list of everything that we want to complete/fix before that point, and get it done | 21:03 |
| russellb | any bug we want to make sure gets fixed should be targeted to havana-rc1 in launchpad | 21:03 |
| mriedem1 | so the 26th is a soft date? | 21:03 |
| mriedem1 | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Havana_Release_Schedule | 21:03 |
| russellb | yes | 21:03 |
| russellb | just a guideline | 21:04 |
| russellb | it could be today if we thought it was ready | 21:04 |
| russellb | but it's not :-) | 21:04 |
| russellb | so let's start by going over the blueprints still pending | 21:04 |
| russellb | the first is encrypted ephemeral storage | 21:04 |
| russellb | we got the encrypted volumes one merged already, and this is related | 21:04 |
| russellb | jog0: you around? know the status of that one? | 21:04 |
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| russellb | i believe it's close, just needs some last changes | 21:05 |
| russellb | but it needs to get in either this week, or in the first couple days of next week | 21:05 |
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| russellb | mikal: you around? you have the libvirt-console-logging blueprint | 21:05 |
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| russellb | which is kind of a bug anyway ... so doesn't have as strict of a deadline | 21:06 |
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| russellb | last i checked it looked like that one mainly needed review attention | 21:06 |
| russellb | so we could use some help there | 21:06 |
| russellb | hartsocks: yours is the last blueprint | 21:06 |
| hartsocks | yeah. | 21:06 |
| russellb | i don't see any problem getting that in | 21:06 |
| russellb | just haven't had a chance to look recently | 21:06 |
| russellb | hartsocks: what's the status? | 21:07 |
| hartsocks | There's two lines in one test that I added that I *could* remove. They aren't necessary but they aren't hurting anything either. | 21:07 |
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| russellb | ok | 21:07 |
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| jog0 | russellb: just got in | 21:08 |
| jog0 | I did that is | 21:08 |
| russellb | jog0: cool | 21:08 |
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| russellb | jog0: was just trying to check on the ephemeral encryption status | 21:08 |
| jog0 | russellb: dansmith hit some issues with the keymgr patch and that is being fixed now (using code from nova/tests in deployment) | 21:08 |
| russellb | jog0: dprince? | 21:08 |
| jog0 | err yeah | 21:08 |
| russellb | hartsocks: i just pinged dansmith to take a look at yours | 21:09 |
| hartsocks | thanks | 21:09 |
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| russellb | ok, so on the bugs list | 21:10 |
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| russellb | the biggest issue with the bug list is that we need to catch up on triage | 21:10 |
| russellb | so i proposed a bug triage date for tuesday, september 17 to try to catch back up | 21:10 |
| russellb | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/014921.html | 21:11 |
| russellb | we need to get through all of these new bugs to find any of the major stuff that we really need to fix before RC1 | 21:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 sounds like a good idea | 21:11 |
| mriedem1 | russellb: how have you been tagging bugs strictly for unit test cleanup? | 21:12 |
| cyeoh | may not matter, but tempest is having a bug day on the same day | 21:12 |
| russellb | so we do that, and then attack the list until everything is done, and that's the trigger for RC1 | 21:12 |
| russellb | mriedem1: "testing" | 21:12 |
| russellb | is the bug tag i've used | 21:12 |
| mriedem1 | russellb: ah, ok, see that now in the nova tag table, nice, thanks | 21:12 |
| russellb | cyeoh: yeah, i wasn't sure if that was a good or bad thing, but having multiple projects attack bug lists at the same time seemed like it could be good | 21:12 |
| russellb | mriedem1: np | 21:12 |
| cyeoh | russellb: ok | 21:12 |
| russellb | if you want to help focus on a sub-set of the bugs, check out our bug tags | 21:13 |
| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Nova/BugTriage | 21:13 |
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| russellb | but really that's the biggest thing we need to accomplish in the next week as a project - producing our target RC1 list | 21:13 |
| russellb | (and progress on fixing things) | 21:13 |
| russellb | that's pretty much all i've got for today | 21:14 |
| russellb | any comments or questions on all of that? | 21:14 |
| jog0 | russellb: I assume we will prioritize bugs on the recheck list | 21:14 |
| jog0 | for rc1 | 21:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1, will look at what xensever ones need RC1 tags | 21:14 |
| russellb | jog0: yeah, we should target the ones that are making a bigger impact on the rc1 list | 21:15 |
| russellb | jog0: that's something you could definitely help with ... targeting the most important ones we should be looking at | 21:15 |
| jog0 | russellb: on it | 21:15 |
| russellb | awesome | 21:15 |
| hartsocks | I'm trying to compile a bug list for our subteam and figure out how to prioritize them. I will post that on the ML when I get it put together. Any tips on that would be helpful. | 21:16 |
| jog0 | that means please don't run recheck no bug unless you are sure | 21:16 |
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| lifeless | this seems like a machine learning problem | 21:16 |
| lifeless | throw good logs + failed logs at a classifier | 21:16 |
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| jog0 | lifeless: ++ are you volunteering? | 21:17 |
| russellb | ha | 21:18 |
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| lifeless | jog0: sure, once I finish the deployment problem :P | 21:18 |
| russellb | sounds like a good plan | 21:18 |
| dripton | Do we have a maintained list of feature freeze exceptions somewhere? | 21:18 |
| lifeless | jog0: speaking of, I have a few nova q's for tripleo for you, when you have a minute :> | 21:18 |
| russellb | dripton: it's basically the list of blueprints targeted at havana-rc1 | 21:19 |
| russellb | the only blueprints listed there were given exceptions to be there | 21:19 |
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| dripton | That's obvious only in hindsight; thanks. I was digging through emails. | 21:19 |
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| russellb | all good | 21:20 |
| russellb | #topic open discussion | 21:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:20 | |
| russellb | anything else? | 21:20 |
| hartsocks | That one multi-process bug got reopened... | 21:21 |
| hartsocks | I posted https://review.openstack.org/#/c/46184/ | 21:21 |
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| hartsocks | I think there's some process table weirdness when under load. | 21:21 |
| russellb | that darn test :) | 21:21 |
| hartsocks | I wrote a small book of a comment explaining why this patch is different. | 21:22 |
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| russellb | ok cool | 21:23 |
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| geekinutah | I have a random item of discussion regarding sync_power_states periodic task | 21:23 |
| russellb | sure | 21:23 |
| geekinutah | I'm not sure this is a bug, but it seems a little off to me | 21:23 |
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| geekinutah | so in most cases sync_power_states treats the hypervisor as authoritative and updates the DB with the hypervisor status | 21:24 |
| geekinutah | except in the case that the DB shows the instance as being shutdown but the hypervisor is running | 21:24 |
| geekinutah | in that case it shuts down the instance | 21:24 |
| geekinutah | I don't know why in only that one case we sync from DB to hypervisor | 21:25 |
| geekinutah | seems like that is out of the scope of the periodic task, or if anything, should be left up to the deployer | 21:25 |
| geekinutah | any thoughts? | 21:25 |
| mrodden1 | i have heard quite a few complaints on that behavior | 21:26 |
| jog0 | geekinutah: what does git blame say? | 21:26 |
| jog0 | history wise | 21:26 |
| russellb | it actually makes sense to me, i think | 21:26 |
| dansmith | is this shutdown like stop or delete? | 21:26 |
| russellb | because that means the user tried to shut it down via nova, but it didn't work for whatever reason | 21:26 |
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| geekinutah | jog0: it was in the original implentation, I can't remember who it was, yao I think | 21:27 |
| russellb | dansmith: stop pretty sure ... | 21:27 |
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| geekinutah | dansmith: yeah | 21:27 |
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| russellb | the other way around, the user can stop within the VM | 21:27 |
| dansmith | russellb: right, agreed | 21:27 |
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| russellb | and then nova needs to catch up | 21:27 |
| geekinutah | russellb: it also means that if an instance crashes and an operator starts it back up manually and not through the API then nova comes along and kills it again | 21:27 |
| russellb | so it may seem odd, but i think it's right ... nova needs to go with whatever the user intent was (as best we can tell) | 21:27 |
| geekinutah | really they should start it through the api | 21:27 |
| geekinutah | but, yeah, there it is | 21:28 |
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| russellb | right, nova assumes (as i think it should be able to) that it's authoritatively in control of the VM lifecycle | 21:28 |
| dansmith | definitely | 21:28 |
| geekinutah | they comments in the task actually treat the hypervisor as authoritative | 21:29 |
| geekinutah | let me get some line numbers out... | 21:29 |
| geekinutah | I agree that something should be authoritative all the time | 21:29 |
| mrodden1 | i think it means that hypervisor is authoritative on "power_state" | 21:29 |
| geekinutah | as it stands it has an exception for one case | 21:29 |
| mrodden1 | but shutdown is a vm_state | 21:30 |
| mrodden1 | iirc | 21:30 |
| russellb | i think it's that user intent is authoritative | 21:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 | 21:30 |
| russellb | which happens to be the HV power state most of the time ... except in this case | 21:30 |
| russellb | where the user tried to stop it from the API but it didn't work | 21:30 |
| russellb | (yet) | 21:30 |
| geekinutah | okay | 21:30 |
| geekinutah | so our instances crashes, at the same time sync_power_states runs | 21:30 |
| geekinutah | now we update the DB to show the instance as being shutdown | 21:31 |
| dansmith | or does a poweroff in the instance | 21:31 |
| dansmith | but you can't go from off->on inside the instance, only by violating the rules and doing it at the hypervisor itself | 21:31 |
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| russellb | any other topics? | 21:33 |
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| geekinutah | I feel sated :-D | 21:34 |
| geekinutah | ty all | 21:35 |
| russellb | cool :) | 21:35 |
| russellb | thanks everyone! | 21:35 |
| annegentle | russellb: how's the v3 API doc? | 21:35 |
| annegentle | I just can't type fast enough! :) | 21:35 |
| russellb | ooh, just caught me! | 21:35 |
| russellb | cyeoh: ^ ? | 21:35 |
| annegentle | whew! | 21:35 |
| cyeoh | annegentle: the api sample patches are all in the review queue | 21:35 |
| annegentle | cyeoh: ok I've been watching them, does Kersten need our help to figure out the WADL? | 21:35 |
| cyeoh | annegentle: still need to do the work to convert that to a spec document though | 21:35 |
| annegentle | cyeoh: ah okay, through automation or writing by hand? | 21:36 |
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| cyeoh | annegentle: going the automation route, I've given a Kersten a sample of the meta files we intend on generating (that stuff isn't in the review queue) | 21:37 |
| annegentle | cyeoh: ok sounds like plan, I like plans | 21:37 |
| annegentle | cyeoh: let us know if we can help | 21:37 |
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| cyeoh | annegentle: ok, thanks! | 21:37 |
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| russellb | alright, thanks everyone! (for real this time) | 21:38 |
| russellb | #endmeeting | 21:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:38 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 12 21:38:33 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:38 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-09-12-21.00.html | 21:38 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-09-12-21.00.txt | 21:38 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-09-12-21.00.log.html | 21:38 |
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| Guest47904 | Is anyone encountering network issue with their vms? Have two that have their eth0 changed to IP6 | 22:06 |
| arosen | Guest47904: having an ipv6 address on eth0 via neutron? | 22:07 |
| arosen | What kind of issues. | 22:07 |
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| Guest47904 | unknown. These were working the past few days, and just stopped. Logged on via console and discovered this | 22:08 |
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| arosen | Discovered what? The interfaces lost their v6 address? | 22:09 |
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| BStokes | that the interface report IP6 address. /etc/network/interfaces is simply: iface eth0 inet dhcp | 22:11 |
| BStokes | sorry, wrong channel | 22:12 |
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