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| fungi | gah, i just remembered to pop back in and check it | 00:56 |
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| fifieldt | hi Daisy | 06:50 |
| ujuc | hi fifieldt | 06:51 |
| fifieldt | hi ujuc | 06:51 |
| ujuc | :) | 06:52 |
| fifieldt | how are you? | 06:52 |
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| ujuc | Busy~.. no work :) | 06:55 |
| ujuc | hum...... | 06:56 |
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| Daisy | hi | 06:58 |
| ujuc | hi~ | 06:58 |
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| Fdot | hello world :) | 06:59 |
| Daisy | I think we have new friends from Vietnam today. | 06:59 |
| Giang | hi everyone | 06:59 |
| Daisy | Hi, Giang. | 06:59 |
| Giang | hi, Daisy | 06:59 |
| Daisy | Let's start. | 07:00 |
| ujuc | yes~ | 07:00 |
| Daisy | #startmeeting OpenStack I18n Meeting | 07:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Aug 1 07:00:21 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Daisy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 07:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 07:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 07:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_i18n_meeting' | 07:00 |
| Daisy | Hello everyone. Nice to meet you again. | 07:00 |
| Daisy | We have new friend today. May you have a simple introduction, Giang? | 07:00 |
| Giang | yes, thanks Daisy | 07:00 |
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| Giang | my name is Giang. I am working for DTT. | 07:01 |
| Giang | DTT is a IT company from Vietnam. | 07:01 |
| Daisy | Now we have ujuc from Korean, Fdot from France, fifieldt from Australia, and Daisy from China. | 07:01 |
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| Daisy | any friends from Japanese? | 07:02 |
| Daisy | ok. | 07:02 |
| Daisy | amotoki from Japan said that the daytime meeting is not so convenient for them, because they are doing translation using their spare time. | 07:03 |
| Giang | DTT provides many IT solution for Vietnam and other countries including US, Singapore, ... | 07:03 |
| fifieldt | hi Giang! | 07:03 |
| Giang | Hi fifieldt. how are you! | 07:03 |
| fifieldt | well thanks Giang, it's good to meet you :) | 07:03 |
| ujuc | :)) | 07:04 |
| Daisy | How do you feel datatime meeting, Giang, ujuc and Fdot ? | 07:04 |
| Daisy | daytime meeting | 07:04 |
| Giang | one of DTT's solution is based on OpenStack which is eGovPlatform | 07:04 |
| Fdot | Daisy I really enjoy it :) | 07:04 |
| Daisy | thanks, Fdot . | 07:04 |
| ujuc | I fine~~.. :)) | 07:04 |
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| Giang | i am fine with the meeting time. | 07:05 |
| Daisy | I'm fine too. I don't like night meeting. :) | 07:05 |
| Daisy | ok. | 07:05 |
| Daisy | #topic Action items from the last meeting | 07:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items from the last meeting (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 07:05 | |
| Fdot | 9am is always better than 3am ;) | 07:05 |
| Daisy | Daisy to update the wiki page to change the meeting frenquency | 07:05 |
| Daisy | Done. The wiki page is changed. | 07:05 |
| Daisy | gabrielcw to take a look at Transifex API to see if it's able to get the translators information. | 07:05 |
| Daisy | That's done too. Gabriel sent out a mail yesterday. | 07:05 |
| Daisy | The translator stastics will be a future feature in Transifex. | 07:06 |
| Daisy | Gabriel will keep an eye on it. | 07:06 |
| Daisy | Are you ok with the answer, fifieldt ? | 07:06 |
| * fifieldt reads | 07:06 | |
| fifieldt | it seems good progress | 07:06 |
| Daisy | http://support.transifex.com/customer/portal/questions/1326867-translators-statistics | 07:07 |
| Daisy | ok. | 07:07 |
| fifieldt | cool | 07:07 |
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| fifieldt | very good news | 07:07 |
| Daisy | ujuc to follow up why Korean characters cannot be shown in the generated PDF. | 07:07 |
| Daisy | I think we have the answer to ujuc 's problem. | 07:07 |
| Daisy | If we want to print Korean document, we need Korean font packaged in maven build plug in. | 07:08 |
| ujuc | clouddoc-maven-plugin not import korean font. | 07:08 |
| ujuc | yes | 07:08 |
| fifieldt | did david reply yet? | 07:08 |
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| Daisy | so at last, we will need korean font, Japanese font, Chinese font, Vietnamese font. | 07:09 |
| ujuc | i study maven build plugin…. :( | 07:09 |
| Daisy | Does we need special font for French? | 07:09 |
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| Daisy | so I wonder if it is possible to access the systen font, other than packaged font. | 07:09 |
| Daisy | or else, David will be busy to import so many fonts. | 07:09 |
| Daisy | I have no idea. | 07:09 |
| fifieldt | I don't know how it works either :s | 07:10 |
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| ujuc | :s | 07:10 |
| Daisy | so we need David's help to solve the font issue. Daisy will track. | 07:10 |
| fifieldt | but actually | 07:10 |
| fifieldt | soon the doc framework | 07:10 |
| fifieldt | will be under the openstack-infra repository | 07:10 |
| Giang | I do not think you will need vietnamese font 'cos we use unicode | 07:10 |
| fifieldt | so we can modify it without david | 07:10 |
| Daisy | #action Daisy to track the font problem with David. | 07:11 |
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| Daisy | Giang, I will suggest you to do a test. | 07:11 |
| Daisy | test whether there is font issue. | 07:11 |
| Giang | ok, no problem | 07:12 |
| Daisy | it's related with document translation. After translation, when generating document, some special font cannot be printed. | 07:12 |
| Daisy | #topic Progress with Japanese doc site | 07:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Progress with Japanese doc site (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 07:13 | |
| Daisy | Since there is no Japanese people, I will introduce the progress. | 07:13 |
| Daisy | cannot be displayed. | 07:13 |
| Daisy | Now amotoki has developed the website. | 07:13 |
| Daisy | http://openstack-ja.github.io/openstack-manuals/ja/ | 07:13 |
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| Daisy | It's under reviewed by Japanese team now. | 07:14 |
| Daisy | He ( or she? ) will report a bug to openstack-manuals, and requested to add the new index page. | 07:14 |
| Daisy | Documents are published using Jenkins's job. So we also need a job definition. | 07:15 |
| Daisy | There is one, but I don't know if it works. | 07:15 |
| Daisy | Japanese team created one draft. I have forwarded to CI team and asked for review. | 07:15 |
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| Daisy | no response yet. | 07:15 |
| Daisy | The publish job will be a little difficult for us, because we don't have much understanding of CI infrastructure. | 07:16 |
| Daisy | fifieldt: do you have any suggestion for such situation? | 07:17 |
| fifieldt | I can take a look | 07:17 |
| fifieldt | do you have the review # | 07:17 |
| fifieldt | ? | 07:17 |
| Daisy | no, I think it's very rough, I don't submit for review. | 07:17 |
| Daisy | Japanese team have a mail sent to i18n mailing list with the job definition. | 07:17 |
| fifieldt | I have written publish jobs before sucessfully | 07:17 |
| Daisy | Great ! | 07:18 |
| Daisy | can I new a bug for CI team about this publish job? | 07:18 |
| Daisy | we need your help. | 07:18 |
| Daisy | I wonder if it is suitable to new a bug , because it may be a new requirement. | 07:18 |
| fifieldt | is it a new requirement? can you forward me the email ? | 07:18 |
| fifieldt | I haven't caught up with my email | 07:19 |
| Daisy | not a bug. | 07:19 |
| fifieldt | if it is easy I can do it tomorrow | 07:19 |
| fifieldt | and ask in #openstack-infra for approval | 07:19 |
| fifieldt | maybe we can discuss offline | 07:19 |
| fifieldt | to keep the meeting going | 07:19 |
| Daisy | ok. | 07:19 |
| Daisy | I forwarded to your openstack mail. | 07:19 |
| Daisy | #topic Progress with glossary table in Transifex | 07:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Progress with glossary table in Transifex (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 07:19 | |
| Daisy | Fdot: would you like to introduce the progress? | 07:20 |
| Daisy | Fdot's team is collecting the glossary now. | 07:20 |
| Fdot | Daisy we have started to backport the glossary form the wiki into transifex | 07:20 |
| * Fdot looking for the url | 07:21 | |
| Fdot | #url : | 07:21 |
| Fdot | #url : https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/openstack/glossary/l/en/ | 07:21 |
| Daisy | where is the wiki link? | 07:21 |
| Daisy | can you share with us? | 07:21 |
| Fdot | of course :) | 07:21 |
| * Fdot is looking for the url | 07:22 | |
| Fdot | #url : https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Glossary | 07:22 |
| Daisy | Are you delete all the old glossarys in Transifex? | 07:22 |
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| Fdot | No and i have a question about this | 07:23 |
| Fdot | There is 2 glossary in transifex | 07:23 |
| Fdot | One for all the Openstack hub | 07:23 |
| Fdot | and one for the manual part | 07:23 |
| Fdot | we have started to works on the openstack hub | 07:24 |
| fifieldt | we use the glossary in the openstack-manuals repo for several of the books | 07:24 |
| Daisy | and maybe there are glossarey for Keystone, Horizon and so on. | 07:24 |
| Fdot | yes | 07:24 |
| Fdot | so maybe it would be better to use the manuals 's one | 07:24 |
| Daisy | I think we should use the one in the hub. | 07:25 |
| Daisy | fifieldt is taking about the glossary defined in github.com/openstack/openstack-manuals , right? | 07:25 |
| Giang | Daisy, you mean this one https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Glossary? | 07:25 |
| fifieldt | yes Daisy | 07:25 |
| Daisy | right, Fdot 's team si importing the glossary in the wiki to Transifex. | 07:26 |
| fifieldt | https://github.com/openstack/openstack-manuals/tree/master/doc/src/docbkx/common/glossary | 07:26 |
| Fdot | Giang we are importing into https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/openstack/glossary/l/en/ | 07:26 |
| Daisy | fifieldt: have you done any comparation between these two glossary? | 07:26 |
| Fdot | but we would like to know if we use this one or this onr : https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/openstack-manuals-i18n/glossary/l/en/ | 07:27 |
| fifieldt | unfortunately not, Daisy - I just fixed the one in the openstack-manuals repo when we wrote the operations guide | 07:27 |
| fifieldt | it had too many terms that weren;t 100% relevent | 07:27 |
| Daisy | Fdot: if we define the hub glossary, can we use it when we are translating openstack-manuals? | 07:27 |
| fifieldt | so did some removing of terms | 07:27 |
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| Fdot | need to test :) | 07:27 |
| * Fdot is looking | 07:27 | |
| Daisy | fifieldt: "it had too many terms that weren;t 100% relevent", which one? the wiki one, or the manuals one? | 07:28 |
| fifieldt | the manuals one | 07:28 |
| Daisy | so you removed a lot? | 07:28 |
| Fdot | in the manual part it is using the manual glossary | 07:29 |
| fifieldt | quite a few Daisy, mainly the very generic ones | 07:29 |
| fifieldt | which were more about general computers | 07:29 |
| fifieldt | rather than OpenStack | 07:29 |
| Daisy | I think some of the wiki glossary are not 100% relevent too. My question is where does the wiki glossary come. | 07:30 |
| Daisy | Fdot: manuals in OpenStack cannot use the hub glossary definition? | 07:30 |
| fifieldt | I think they are originally the same source | 07:30 |
| fifieldt | I believe the wiki may be the original and it was introduced into the manuals repo but never removed from the wiki, so both kept being updated :) | 07:31 |
| Daisy | Fdot: I think we need to do a check. I think probably yes. | 07:31 |
| Fdot | daisy i don't understand your question :) | 07:31 |
| Daisy | Fdot: to check whether openstack-manuals can use the glossary defined in openstack hub. | 07:31 |
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| Daisy | do I make sense? | 07:32 |
| Fdot | Daisy yes | 07:32 |
| Daisy | thanks. | 07:32 |
| Fdot | into a manual project I have made some tests on some works | 07:32 |
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| Daisy | #action Fdot to check whether openstack-manuals can use the glossary defined in openstack hub. | 07:33 |
| Daisy | Hi, there comes amotoki . | 07:33 |
| Fdot | into the glossary part (bottom right) the definition are from the manual gloassry and not from the hub glossary | 07:33 |
| amotoki | hi | 07:33 |
| ujuc | hi :) | 07:33 |
| Daisy | fifieldt: there are two glossary files in common/glossary | 07:33 |
| Fdot | maybe it can be configurate into the hub or the project configuration | 07:33 |
| Daisy | glossary-terms.xml | 07:33 |
| Daisy | openstack-glossary.xml | 07:33 |
| Daisy | which one are you using? | 07:34 |
| fifieldt | openstack-glossary.xml is just an introduction | 07:34 |
| fifieldt | the actual entries live in glossary-terms.xml | 07:34 |
| Daisy | Fdot: if you need my help, I can. I'm the administrator of openstack hub. | 07:34 |
| Daisy | ok. thanks. | 07:34 |
| Fdot | Daisy : can you check if we can define into the configuration if we can force the hub glossary ? | 07:35 |
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| Daisy | sure. I can do offline. | 07:35 |
| Daisy | #action Daisy to check if we can define into the configuration if we can force the hub glossary. | 07:35 |
| Fdot | thanks a lot :) | 07:35 |
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| Daisy | Fdot: there are two glossary, one is in the wiki, the other is in manuals repository. Some of them may be same, and some of them may be different. | 07:36 |
| Daisy | Do you have any suggestions for such situation? | 07:36 |
| Fdot | Daisy : I have asked to one person of my team to check the difference | 07:37 |
| Fdot | he is in holiday this week | 07:37 |
| Daisy | which one should we use? Or we merge them? How can we track them automatically? Can we do it by program? | 07:37 |
| Fdot | I am going to check with him | 07:37 |
| Fdot | and to contact you back about what he has seen | 07:37 |
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| Fdot | I think they are close | 07:37 |
| Daisy | thanks, Fdot . I remember Transifex can import from some format of files into glossary table. | 07:37 |
| Fdot | we should merge them | 07:37 |
| Daisy | Maybe the file importing can ease this work. | 07:38 |
| Fdot | could be easier | 07:39 |
| Fdot | than copying and pasting each words | 07:39 |
| Daisy | right. not sure if there are any API support. | 07:39 |
| Daisy | Glossary mantainance will be a problem for us in future, when our glossary table grows, and when doc team and other team change the glossary. | 07:40 |
| Daisy | Anyway, let's do the import first. | 07:40 |
| Daisy | ok. | 07:40 |
| Daisy | I have finished all the topics I want to cover. | 07:41 |
| Daisy | #topic Open discussion | 07:41 |
| Daisy | we can move to the open discussion now. | 07:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 07:41 | |
| Fdot | I have a quick question :) | 07:41 |
| Fdot | We are currently looking for working with a translation company for translating the manuals | 07:41 |
| Fdot | but we can ask to this company to work on transifex | 07:42 |
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| Fdot | first we have decided to send them the Pdf for working | 07:42 |
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| Fdot | but it is going to be hard after for backporting into transifex | 07:42 |
| Fdot | the works is going to be important | 07:42 |
| Daisy | Fdot: you cannot ask them to work on Transifex? | 07:43 |
| Fdot | have you got any advice on how we vcan proceed | 07:43 |
| Fdot | unfortunatly no | 07:43 |
| Fdot | they use their own tools | 07:43 |
| Giang | why don't you ask it to work on Transifex? | 07:43 |
| Daisy | Do they mind to translate po files directly? Then you can import po files to Transifex. | 07:43 |
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| amotoki | we experience Transifex is not a good platform to review the big documents too. | 07:44 |
| Daisy | Fdot asks professional translation company to help on the translation. | 07:44 |
| Giang | ok, i see | 07:44 |
| Fdot | how did you do amotoki ? | 07:44 |
| amotoki | we edit po file directly and upload po files to Transifex. | 07:44 |
| Daisy | I agree with amotoki to some extend, actually. | 07:44 |
| Fdot | the problem with Po file is that it is difficult to understand the context | 07:45 |
| Fdot | you don't see the whole page | 07:45 |
| Daisy | Generally speaking, when generating po files, the paragraph sequences are kept the same with source xml files. | 07:45 |
| Fdot | so sometime it is difficult to understand what you are translating | 07:45 |
| Daisy | but when the source xml files are changed, the sequence will not be kept exactly same. | 07:46 |
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| Daisy | The updated one will be appended at the end. | 07:46 |
| Giang | Fdot, i have the same issue. | 07:46 |
| Daisy | The old one will be deleted. | 07:46 |
| Daisy | amotoki: how is your team feeling when translating po files? | 07:46 |
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| amotoki | Daisy: During the review, it is not a problem. | 07:47 |
| amotoki | as an advice, we execute "msgfmt --statistics -o /dev/null <PO file>" to check the format. | 07:47 |
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| Daisy | What editor do you use, amotoki , to translate po file? | 07:47 |
| amotoki | it depends on translators. I prefer to emacs po-mode. | 07:48 |
| Daisy | I think there are some po editors that can help translation. | 07:48 |
| Daisy | emacs? | 07:48 |
| Daisy | what's this? | 07:48 |
| amotoki | yeah | 07:48 |
| amotoki | emacs is a very common editor in Unix world :-) | 07:48 |
| Daisy | Fdot and Giang, will you try if your translators are ok to translate po files directly, other than using Transifex, but using some po editors. | 07:49 |
| Fdot | Daisy I already know the answer they don't really want to work on Po file :( | 07:50 |
| Fdot | They prefere Pdf | 07:50 |
| Daisy | thanks for the answer, Fdot. | 07:50 |
| Giang | i have no idea for now | 07:50 |
| Giang | i am working on Transifex and it is ok for me | 07:50 |
| Daisy | If the paragraph sequence are same, if the po editor can display the english string and translation string well, I personally think po files are all right. | 07:51 |
| Giang | however ... | 07:51 |
| Daisy | however what? Giang? | 07:51 |
| Giang | we may have the same issue with Fdot when we want to hire any profressionals to do this job | 07:51 |
| Daisy | you are so rich that you can hire professional translators. | 07:52 |
| Daisy | :)) | 07:52 |
| Fdot | Daisy :D | 07:52 |
| amotoki | I think translation work consists of two phase: the one is to translate, tranlate, tranlate... and the other is a review and feedback phase. | 07:52 |
| Giang | OpenStack Vietnam team have an idea to ask students to help us | 07:52 |
| Daisy | Good idea, Giang. | 07:52 |
| amotoki | in the translation phase, Transifex is good to some extent, but Transifex. | 07:53 |
| amotoki | Transifex is not so good in the review phase... | 07:53 |
| Giang | however, we will not pay them by money but ... | 07:53 |
| Daisy | we have a long way to go to make our translation tools better and better. | 07:53 |
| Giang | by some award for active contributors | 07:54 |
| Daisy | I'm open if soembody can propose new tools and new websites. | 07:54 |
| Giang | In my case, Transifex is ok | 07:55 |
| Fdot | Transifex is a nice tool | 07:55 |
| Fdot | maybe we should just send some feedback to their team | 07:55 |
| amotoki | I think so too. | 07:55 |
| Fdot | maybe they will include them ;) | 07:55 |
| Daisy | what I want to maintain is a good translation system, good usibility, good maintainance, and easy to syncronize with source strings. | 07:56 |
| Daisy | I think Openstack community have some relationship with Transifex community. | 07:56 |
| Daisy | fifieldt may know some. | 07:56 |
| fifieldt | yeah, we're chjatting with transifex guys | 07:57 |
| fifieldt | reed used to work with one of them :) | 07:57 |
| Daisy | I remember our CI team offer to help us to set up our own transifex website if we want. | 07:57 |
| Daisy | but I don't think we need to main our own transifex website till now. | 07:58 |
| Daisy | maintain. | 07:58 |
| Giang | yes, right | 07:58 |
| ujuc | yes. | 07:58 |
| Daisy | so let's summarize a wish list to Transifex and send to them through some channel? | 07:58 |
| Daisy | agree? | 07:59 |
| Giang | yes | 07:59 |
| Fdot | +1 \o_ | 07:59 |
| fifieldt | sounds good | 07:59 |
| Daisy | amotoki ? | 07:59 |
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| Giang | for now, i have only one issue is we do not see the whole context when translating. | 07:59 |
| amotoki | Daisy: agee | 07:59 |
| ujuc | +1~ | 07:59 |
| Daisy | ok. so there is an action item to all of the team. | 08:00 |
| amotoki | I am summarizing our experience during the translation of ops-guide now. | 08:00 |
| Daisy | #action each team collect the wish list of Transifex and Daisy to combine them. | 08:00 |
| Daisy | amotoki: when you finish, please let i18n team know. It will be a great reference for all the team. | 08:01 |
| Daisy | any other topics? Time pass very quickly. | 08:01 |
| amotoki | Daisy: sure. | 08:01 |
| Daisy | no topics? | 08:01 |
| amotoki | Daisy: do you have any progress on the source lang in Horizon Transifex? | 08:01 |
| Daisy | sorry no. | 08:01 |
| Daisy | I will update with you through email. | 08:02 |
| Giang | ok, thanks | 08:02 |
| Daisy | #action Daisy to track the source lang in Horizon | 08:02 |
| amotoki | thanks. | 08:02 |
| Daisy | so I will close the meeting now. | 08:02 |
| Giang | ok. see you all | 08:02 |
| Daisy | Thank you all for your attendance. | 08:02 |
| fifieldt | thanks! | 08:03 |
| amotoki | thank you all! | 08:03 |
| Daisy | #endmeeting | 08:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:03 | |
| ujuc | Thanks~^^ | 08:03 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Aug 1 08:03:04 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:03 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2013/openstack_i18n_meeting.2013-08-01-07.00.html | 08:03 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2013/openstack_i18n_meeting.2013-08-01-07.00.txt | 08:03 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2013/openstack_i18n_meeting.2013-08-01-07.00.log.html | 08:03 |
| Fdot | Thank you all :) | 08:03 |
| ujuc | :)) | 08:03 |
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| Daisy | nice to talk with you. | 08:03 |
| Fdot | Like we say in french : Bonne journée à tous :) | 08:03 |
| ujuc | :) | 08:03 |
| Daisy | hehe, I cannot udnerstand. | 08:03 |
| Daisy | I cannot udnerstand French. | 08:03 |
| fifieldt | yet :) | 08:03 |
| Fdot | You can translate : Have a good day all :) | 08:04 |
| ujuc | Like fifieldt say in korean: 좋은 하루되세요~ :) | 08:05 |
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| Daisy | :) I can say Chinese. | 08:05 |
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| fifieldt | "What is the difference between 좋은 하루 보내세요 and 좋은 하루 되세요?” :P | 08:06 |
| ujuc | Um... | 08:07 |
| ujuc | no~ kkkk | 08:08 |
| fifieldt | hehehe | 08:08 |
| ujuc | same hehe | 08:08 |
| ujuc | doing vs having. kk | 08:08 |
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| fifieldt | ujuc, do you know anything about http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/korea-linux-forum ? | 08:12 |
| ujuc | lol~~~ | 08:13 |
| ujuc | no~ | 08:13 |
| fifieldt | cool :) | 08:13 |
| ujuc | Had attended in the last year. Only the first day ... | 08:14 |
| ujuc | hehe… ~ | 08:14 |
| fifieldt | learn much? :) | 08:14 |
| ujuc | um… yes~ | 08:14 |
| fifieldt | cool, maybe we should submit an OpenStack talk | 08:15 |
| fifieldt | :) | 08:15 |
| fifieldt | I will suggest on the kr facebook group | 08:15 |
| fifieldt | thanks :) | 08:15 |
| ujuc | ah ~~! | 08:15 |
| ujuc | Thanks ^^ | 08:15 |
| fifieldt | ok, time to go prepare dinner | 08:15 |
| fifieldt | thanks :) | 08:15 |
| ujuc | :) bye~ :) keke | 08:17 |
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| sdague | #startmeeting qa | 16:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Aug 1 16:59:41 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sdague. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)" | 16:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'qa' | 16:59 |
| sdague | ok, who's around for the QA meeting? | 16:59 |
| dkranz | Here | 16:59 |
| adalbas | here | 17:00 |
| giulivo | here | 17:00 |
| mtreinish | hi | 17:00 |
| psedlak | hi | 17:00 |
| sdague | #link - https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/QATeamMeeting | 17:00 |
| afazekas | hi | 17:00 |
| sdague | #topic Blueprints | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:01 | |
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| sdague | ok, status on key blueprints | 17:01 |
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| sdague | lets start on parallel tempest | 17:01 |
| sdague | mtreinish: you're up | 17:01 |
| mtreinish | so testr is making progress. I've been pushing a lot of code to try and fix the races we're seeing | 17:01 |
| sdague | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/speed-up-tempest | 17:01 |
| mtreinish | right now I'm stuck with on az create server one which still shows up periodically after I added locking | 17:02 |
| mtreinish | that is the most common fail right now | 17:02 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: I just saw it again with my skip slow patch | 17:02 |
| afazekas | mtreinish: Do you have link to one fail ? | 17:02 |
| mtreinish | I'm also working on adding tenant isolation to scenario which will fix a security group issue there | 17:02 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: yeah it happens ~30-40% now | 17:03 |
| mtreinish | without locking it was every run | 17:03 |
| mtreinish | afazekas: one sec let me pull up the link | 17:03 |
| sdague | mtreinish: do we do any agregate manip in scenario tests? | 17:03 |
| afazekas | mtresnins: after this change I could add per process isolation : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/38641/ | 17:03 |
| mtreinish | afazekas: http://paste.openstack.org/show/42787/ | 17:04 |
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| mtreinish | sdague: not that I remember but I'd have to double check to be sure | 17:04 |
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| sdague | mtreinish: is that the final big bug? | 17:05 |
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| mtreinish | afazekas: what do you mean by per process isolation? | 17:05 |
| sdague | or are there others hidden behind that one? | 17:05 |
| afazekas | mtreinish: to create user/tenant on every worker process only | 17:05 |
| mtreinish | sdague: hopefully, looking at the build trend: https://jenkins.openstack.org/job/gate-tempest-devstack-vm-testr-full/buildTimeTrend its the only one I've been seeing | 17:05 |
| afazekas | mtreinish: I could be extendable to use predefined list of users, when you are using tempest without admin rights | 17:05 |
| mtreinish | but there were some other ones that I saw when I first turned it on | 17:06 |
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| afazekas | List probably means a pair of users per worker process | 17:06 |
| sdague | afazekas: so that seems like a different optimization, I'd rather not distract from testr right now | 17:06 |
| mtreinish | but I haven't seen them in over a week | 17:06 |
| sdague | as we have different per class tenant isolation in there | 17:06 |
| adalbas | i have been investigating one of those mtreinish pointed, i'm collecting info to open a bug if that comes again to happen | 17:07 |
| sdague | ok, we'll probably have to push parallelism | 17:07 |
| sdague | to shake more out, we had to do that with nova | 17:07 |
| afazekas | sdague: the change has some modeling related improvement anyway | 17:07 |
| sdague | I was regularly running with 16 process to make it fall apart | 17:07 |
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| mtreinish | sdague: yeah but first we've got to sort out the az failure I started working on it with jog0 last night | 17:07 |
| giulivo | I'd like to join the forces and try the testr parallelization myself; can I ask what is the gerrit submission I should checkout? | 17:08 |
| sdague | afazekas: right, I get that, but right now we have a very limitted number of weeks to get testr in, so focus should be narrowly on that. We can make model improvements post H3 | 17:08 |
| mtreinish | and I haven't been able to reproduce it locally | 17:08 |
| dkranz | giulivo: It's already in. Just run the tox for full that uses testr | 17:08 |
| mtreinish | giulivo: sure, it's actually already running I can go over the details with you after the meeting in -qa | 17:09 |
| afazekas | sdague: AFAIK keystone v3 is also a goal | 17:09 |
| sdague | afazekas: we have to rank goals | 17:09 |
| afazekas | ok | 17:09 |
| sdague | otherwise we don't get them done | 17:09 |
| sdague | testr is going to be really key to the last 2 week merge rush for all the projects | 17:09 |
| sdague | we can do v3 after H3 | 17:10 |
| sdague | that's why it's currently the only critical blueprint | 17:10 |
| dkranz | sdague: What does "do v3" mean? | 17:10 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: keystone v3 api | 17:10 |
| sdague | spend time on landing keystone v3 api tests | 17:10 |
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| dkranz | sdague: I don't understand why we can't do that while Matt is working on testr. | 17:11 |
| giulivo | thanks mtreinish, dkranz I see that is testenv:all | 17:11 |
| sdague | dkranz: there is only so much time to go around, so if people are doing that, they aren't helping make sure testr can land | 17:11 |
| mtreinish | giulivo: and testenv:testr-full, testr-full runs nonvoting on the check queue and all runs periodic | 17:11 |
| dkranz | sdague: What people? We can't have 10 people working on getting testr in. | 17:12 |
| ravikumar_hp | mtreinish: Can you please put readme in api folder | 17:12 |
| sdague | dkranz: actually, I don't think that's true | 17:12 |
| sdague | testr at this point is about chasing race bugs | 17:12 |
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| sdague | that's very parallelizable | 17:12 |
| dkranz | sdague: OK. What should we look at? | 17:13 |
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| mtreinish | ravikumar_hp: there is one: https://github.com/openstack/tempest/blob/master/tempest/api/README.rst | 17:13 |
| sdague | get testr parallel up, push it hard see where the flakey bits fall out | 17:13 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: yeah it's about running it locally and debugging where it fails | 17:14 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: OK, but let's file bugs so we are not duplicating effort. | 17:14 |
| ravikumar_hp | mtreinish: i mean for running testr | 17:14 |
| mtreinish | the jenkins job is to help with finding things in a gate like environment and it's found quite a few. I've documented some here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/debugging-testr-tempest | 17:14 |
| mtreinish | ravikumar_hp: oh I can push out an update for the main readme to do that later today | 17:15 |
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| mtreinish | ravikumar_hp: but run_tests.sh -t or tox -etestr-full will run it in parallel | 17:15 |
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| ravikumar_hp | mtreinish: Thanks | 17:15 |
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| sdague | yep, if we can hang the bugs off the blueprint, that would be good | 17:16 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: I agree, adalbas said he was going to add a tag for testr parallel so we can easily track this | 17:16 |
| mtreinish | yeah the blueprint too | 17:16 |
| sdague | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/speed-up-tempest | 17:16 |
| adalbas | sure | 17:16 |
| sdague | dkranz: mtreinish told me over lunch you had the interesting idea of switching over to testr single thread for all the jobs now | 17:17 |
| psedlak | sdague: could you please also linkify those urls for debugging-testr-tempest and info those commands for running it? :) | 17:17 |
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| dkranz | sdague: Yes, because I did not want to maintain nose selection for slow, heat, etc. | 17:17 |
| dkranz | sdague: It seems like testr is solid enough and gives advantages over nose | 17:17 |
| sdague | dkranz: I like it | 17:17 |
| sdague | can you propose the patch for that? | 17:18 |
| dkranz | It's junk parallel that is broken | 17:18 |
| dkranz | sdague: Yes, as soon as the slow skip goes through. | 17:18 |
| dkranz | sdague: It seems to be working so I will unmark it WIP after the meeting. | 17:18 |
| sdague | cool | 17:18 |
| sdague | psedlak: um... do you have the links? :) | 17:18 |
| mtreinish | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/debugging-testr-tempest | 17:18 |
| sdague | great | 17:19 |
| psedlak | :) ok, i was thinking that only the chair can do it, so sorry :) | 17:19 |
| sdague | #info concerted push on getting testr parallel working before H3 | 17:19 |
| mtreinish | #info run tempest with testr parallel using: run_tests.sh -t or tox -etestr-full | 17:19 |
| sdague | #action dkranz to propose testr non parallel for all tempest job runs, getting us off nose | 17:19 |
| sdague | cool | 17:20 |
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| sdague | this is all going to be awesome when it lands | 17:20 |
| sdague | and drop average gate times in half | 17:20 |
| dkranz | sdague: Excellent | 17:20 |
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| sdague | ok, other blueprints? | 17:21 |
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| adalbas | mtreinish, the tag you mentioned before is the one we add in the bugs, right? | 17:21 |
| dkranz | sdague: I am also going to put some focus on getting heat in. | 17:21 |
| mlavalle | sdague: I can report on mine | 17:21 |
| sdague | mlavalle: go for it | 17:22 |
| mtreinish | adalbas: yeah but I forgot that we can just link it to the speed-up-tempest blueprint | 17:22 |
| mlavalle | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/fix-gate-tempest-devstack-vm-quantum-full | 17:22 |
| sdague | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/fix-gate-tempest-devstack-vm-quantum-full | 17:22 |
| mlavalle | sdague: this blueprint involves a list of several items | 17:22 |
| adalbas | mtreinish, yes, it makes sense | 17:22 |
| mlavalle | sdague: each item requires the following: fix something in a tempest test case, fix something in nova and potentially fix something in Neutron / Neutron client | 17:22 |
| mlavalle | sdague: right now I am working on the quotas item. You and I have been talking over Gerrit about the Tempest piece. Last Sunday I pushed the corresponding patchsets for review in nova. You gave a -1 in one of them (not complaining | 17:22 |
| mlavalle | sdague: after quotas, I will start with the floating ips items and so on…. I will knock them down one by one | 17:23 |
| sdague | mlavalle: ok, what's the review again? maybe I should look again | 17:23 |
| sdague | mlavalle: cool | 17:23 |
| sdague | thanks much for this | 17:23 |
| mlavalle | sdague: so we can expedite his | 17:23 |
| mlavalle | each time I send patches to nova or Neutron, I'll let you know, so you can help me | 17:24 |
| dkranz | sdague: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/35724/ | 17:24 |
| sdague | mlavalle: sounds great | 17:24 |
| dkranz | mlavalle: What about the neutron smoke job? | 17:24 |
| mtreinish | mlavalle: I have a concern with adding neutron tests in that the neutron jenkins jobs aren't working at all. So adding more tests we really aren't running them | 17:24 |
| dkranz | mlavalle: It fails but I don't see any errors in the log. | 17:25 |
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| mtreinish | dkranz: it fails during the devstack exercises I believe | 17:25 |
| sdague | dkranz: it fails really early, I did bring that up in the neutron channel | 17:25 |
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| sdague | markmclain said he'd take a look | 17:25 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: Yes, we need to get the neutron gate jobs working first. | 17:25 |
| mlavalle | dkranz, mtresinish: that job you are talking about is what I am fixing | 17:25 |
| dkranz | mlavalle: OK, great. | 17:25 |
| sdague | mlavalle: ok great | 17:25 |
| mtreinish | mlavalle: ok but that review adds tests. I don't think we can merge that until the job is fixed | 17:26 |
| sdague | mtreinish: no we can merge | 17:27 |
| sdague | it's running | 17:27 |
| sdague | so it's not like we're not executing it | 17:27 |
| mlavalle | mtreinish: yeah, it's running | 17:27 |
| sdague | we're just not voting with it | 17:27 |
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| mlavalle | sdague: correct | 17:27 |
| sdague | I'm ok on that front, as it's not the same bitrot issue | 17:27 |
| sdague | I just +Aed it | 17:27 |
| mlavalle | sdague: thanks | 17:27 |
| mtreinish | sdague: no but the jenkins jobs with neutron doesn't even get to tempest. so how can we be running the tests? | 17:28 |
| mlavalle | that's all | 17:28 |
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| sdague | mtreinish: oh, right... well | 17:28 |
| sdague | I +Aed it | 17:28 |
| sdague | anyway, moving on | 17:29 |
| sdague | other blueprints? | 17:29 |
| afazekas | mlavalle: next week, I would like to spend more time on the smoke gate instability issues , If you have any info about these issues let me know | 17:29 |
| dkranz | It would be nice to get rid of exercises | 17:29 |
| sdague | dkranz: yeh, that's a post H3 thing | 17:29 |
| mlavalle | afazekas: will do | 17:29 |
| dkranz | sdague: Of course | 17:29 |
| sdague | I think it just needs an audit to make sure scenario >= exercises | 17:29 |
| sdague | and if so, we disable exercises | 17:30 |
| sdague | and if not, we enhance scenario tests | 17:30 |
| sdague | there is now a scenario test for horizon, which is great | 17:30 |
| sdague | so we know that you can actually log into horizon | 17:30 |
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| sdague | ok next topic | 17:31 |
| sdague | #topic Critical Reviews (sdague) | 17:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Critical Reviews (sdague) (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:31 | |
| afazekas | sdague: nowadays, we are skiping too many test because of instability issues, it ruins our coverage | 17:31 |
| sdague | ok, what critical reviews are out there right now that need eyes? | 17:31 |
| sdague | afazekas: ok, lets come back at the end | 17:32 |
| afazekas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/39417/ | 17:32 |
| sdague | lets give people time for critical reviews | 17:32 |
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| mtreinish | afazekas: I have issues with that actually but we should take it to the list I feel | 17:33 |
| mtreinish | because test runners can easily exclude tests | 17:33 |
| mtreinish | and testr just does it with a regex | 17:33 |
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| dkranz | mtreinish: I discovered that testr is a pain because it lets you OR regexes but not AND them | 17:33 |
| afazekas | mtreinish: we have about 20 bugs, it will be a long regexp :) | 17:33 |
| mtreinish | afazekas: that patch is not a replacement for the skip decorator | 17:34 |
| sdague | afazekas: yeh, lets take that to the list | 17:34 |
| sdague | remember, we're using openstack-dev now with the [qa] tag | 17:34 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: That makes testr regexp ugly. See my 'slow' tag patch for an example. | 17:34 |
| mtreinish | its so he can selectively exclude tests that we don't skip because of an environmental difference | 17:34 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: That is a valid use case. | 17:35 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: The question is just what the best way is | 17:35 |
| sdague | yeh, I'm leaning towards mtreinish on this one, because there is a way to do it already | 17:35 |
| sdague | but let's take it to the list and discuss there, because I think ian needs to be in it | 17:35 |
| sdague | and this approach probably has other implications for other efforts, like how the cells gate job is going to be approached | 17:35 |
| sdague | as they've got this issue that cells doesn't implement a lot of nova features | 17:36 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: well, we can always talk to lifeless about adding an exclude option to testr | 17:36 |
| dkranz | sdague: Perhaps we should ask lifeless about allowing regexp exclusion from the command line | 17:36 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: :) | 17:36 |
| sdague | #action move discussion on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/39417/ to the mailing list | 17:36 |
| sdague | ok, other reviews that need attention? | 17:37 |
| sdague | going once | 17:38 |
| sdague | ok, moving on | 17:40 |
| afazekas | 1 sec | 17:40 |
| sdague | ok, not moving on | 17:40 |
| afazekas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/38995/ | 17:40 |
| afazekas | 'InvalidOkCode' exception can simplify the assertion in the test code | 17:41 |
| afazekas | We just need to assert the OK codes in rest clients | 17:41 |
| sdague | ok, I'll take a look post meeting | 17:42 |
| sdague | any other reviews? | 17:42 |
| afazekas | ok | 17:42 |
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| sdague | ok, next topic | 17:42 |
| sdague | #topic Call for more Core reviewers (dkranz) | 17:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Call for more Core reviewers (dkranz) (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:42 | |
| dkranz | We need more core reviewers | 17:43 |
| sdague | so our core count remains at 6, and from the numbers those 6 are still the most active reviewers | 17:43 |
| sdague | I would really like to add more folks, but we do really need folks to be doing at least the level of work as existing cores | 17:43 |
| dkranz | Most of the current reviewers are from Red Hat or IBM | 17:43 |
| sdague | and having good -1 judgement | 17:43 |
| sdague | so consider this an extended call for "please review more, even if you aren't a core member" :) | 17:44 |
| dkranz | sdague: We should send this to the list | 17:44 |
| sdague | because the road to becoming a core member is to basically already be doing the work of one, then we add you | 17:44 |
| sdague | agreed | 17:44 |
| sdague | #action sdague to send call for more reviewers to the list | 17:44 |
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| sdague | ok, I think that's the agenda | 17:45 |
| sdague | #topic Open Discussion | 17:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:45 | |
| mlavalle | sdague: I'll start doing reviews once I feel comfortable that I am making progress with the Neutron gate job | 17:45 |
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| sdague | mlavalle: great, thanks! | 17:46 |
| sdague | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-August/012855.html | 17:46 |
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| sdague | in case folks haven't seen that, I've been heads down trying to unify our requirements testing so we don't wedge the gate | 17:47 |
| sdague | hopefully that lands today | 17:47 |
| sdague | we're actually down to a tempest requirements issue now | 17:47 |
| sdague | any other things from folks? | 17:47 |
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| mtreinish | nothing from me | 17:48 |
| sdague | anyone else | 17:48 |
| dkranz | Please review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/39716/ | 17:49 |
| dkranz | That's it from me. | 17:49 |
| mlavalle | mlavalle: nothing from me | 17:49 |
| sdague | ok, great | 17:50 |
| sdague | let's call it a meeting | 17:50 |
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| sdague | #endmeeting | 17:50 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:50 | |
| sdague | thanks all | 17:50 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Aug 1 17:50:19 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:50 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-08-01-16.59.html | 17:50 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-08-01-16.59.txt | 17:50 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-08-01-16.59.log.html | 17:50 |
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| thomasbiege | so | 18:01 |
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| hyakuhei_ | Hi all | 18:06 |
| hyakuhei_ | Sorry I'm late, had some communication issues | 18:06 |
| hyakuhei_ | #startmeeting OpenStack Security Group | 18:06 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Aug 1 18:06:54 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hyakuhei_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:06 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:06 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group' | 18:06 |
| elo | Hi | 18:07 |
| * joel-coffman waves hello | 18:07 | |
| hyakuhei_ | Hi :) My appologies for not starting this sooner. | 18:07 |
| hyakuhei_ | Do we have anyone else with us today? | 18:07 |
| nicolae_ | Hi | 18:07 |
| thomasbiege | hi | 18:07 |
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| hyakuhei_ | Hi Guys, thanks for waiting around | 18:07 |
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| hyakuhei_ | #topic Booksprint followup | 18:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Booksprint followup (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:08 | |
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| hyakuhei_ | Right, the book is looking reasonably good at the moment. Does anyone have feedback on suggested improvements? | 18:08 |
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| hyakuhei_ | I've written up the various security issues we identified during the sprint, I'll send the non-sensitive ones around the ML as a few require blueprints to be drafted | 18:09 |
| hyakuhei_ | Any thoughts? | 18:09 |
| hyakuhei_ | Fantastic, I'll do that then | 18:10 |
| joel-coffman | sounds good | 18:10 |
| hyakuhei_ | #action hyakuhei to send non-sensitive security issues around the OSSG for the group to pick blueprints to run with | 18:10 |
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| elo | I'll flush out more of the networking stuff as there is a lot of churn with feature in Havana for Neutron | 18:10 |
| hyakuhei_ | I will see if we can pick up a few at HP too | 18:10 |
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| hyakuhei_ | Great, thanks elo | 18:11 |
| hyakuhei_ | Are you familiar with the submission process? | 18:11 |
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| elo | in the process of getting up to speed | 18:11 |
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| hyakuhei_ | ok great, feel free to reach out to the group if you run into problems. You can reach out to me directly too if you want | 18:12 |
| hyakuhei_ | make sure you ping us when you submit your changes and we'll get the reviewed quickly | 18:12 |
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| hyakuhei_ | #topic Items that require OSSG attention | 18:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Items that require OSSG attention (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:12 | |
| hyakuhei_ | If you're not already aware of it I'd encourage you all to take a look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/33532/ | 18:12 |
| hyakuhei_ | It is a bit of a mess with 9 different patch sets the last time I looked | 18:13 |
| hyakuhei_ | And some discussion of wether it's ok to have sensitive information in debug output | 18:13 |
| hyakuhei_ | Any thoughts on that last point specifically? | 18:13 |
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| hyakuhei_ | ok, well if you get the opportunity please dive in and have a look at that | 18:14 |
| hyakuhei_ | Also, you'll notice we have security-related reviews being delivered to the OSSG mailing list, this is a good thing, if you see one please take the time to take a look at the review. | 18:15 |
| hyakuhei_ | #topic OSSG Logo | 18:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OSSG Logo (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:15 | |
| hyakuhei_ | Do we have any budding artists in the group? | 18:15 |
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| joel-coffman | not me | 18:16 |
| thomasbiege | unfortunately not | 18:16 |
| hyakuhei_ | hah, not me either | 18:16 |
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| hyakuhei_ | ok, well I guess the quest continues. I'm trying to find out if we can use/modify/adapt the OpenStack logo | 18:16 |
| thomasbiege | I think a openstack icon with a lock can be made easily | 18:16 |
| elo | me either | 18:16 |
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| hyakuhei_ | thomasbiege: sure it can, if we can get permission to use it | 18:17 |
| thomasbiege | *nod* | 18:17 |
| hyakuhei_ | Ok, I'll see if I can find someone 'creative' :) | 18:17 |
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| hyakuhei_ | #topic Wiki / OSSG Organisation | 18:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Wiki / OSSG Organisation (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:17 | |
| nicolae_ | a lock would be easy to add to the openstack logo, i can try create some prototypese | 18:18 |
| nicolae_ | *prototypes | 18:18 |
| hyakuhei_ | Does anyone have thoughts on how the OSSG should operate in future, particularly in regard to onboarding new people into the group? | 18:18 |
| joel-coffman | not particularly | 18:19 |
| thomasbiege | getting the right people is the interesting part | 18:19 |
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| nicolae_ | I'm going through this process right now -- well basically reading into source code to know the nuts and bolts of a project, that's the first step i thought of | 18:19 |
| thomasbiege | people that have fun and time to bring their expertise into the group | 18:19 |
| hyakuhei_ | So I think the group is~70 people at the moment | 18:20 |
| hyakuhei_ | which is great | 18:20 |
| hyakuhei_ | but some induction / tasking / direction is probably required | 18:20 |
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| thomasbiege | yes | 18:20 |
| hyakuhei_ | Security peeps are difficult cats to herd at the best of times | 18:20 |
| nicolae_ | What about assigning some small tasks, like reviews, as a practice? | 18:21 |
| hyakuhei_ | Ok, I'll try to draft something this week and ping it around the group | 18:21 |
| hyakuhei_ | nicolae_: excellent idea. | 18:21 |
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| thomasbiege | depends much on their current function and preference in their daily security job | 18:21 |
| nicolae_ | They might not be definitive, but getting feedback on the review would surely help "get in" the process | 18:21 |
| hyakuhei_ | Yeah, but we can try it, if it doesn't work well that's fine too :) | 18:22 |
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| hyakuhei_ | #action hyakuhei and bryan to discuss new-starter options | 18:22 |
| hyakuhei_ | #topic A.O.B | 18:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "A.O.B (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:22 | |
| thomasbiege | well we need initioation tasks for the different kind of sec people. development of code, secure design, network, etc | 18:23 |
| hyakuhei_ | Yeah | 18:23 |
| hyakuhei_ | I think one of the areas we struggle with (OpenStack) is making it easy for the people with the ideas to find the people who can get the work done, reviewed and submitted in the OpenStack world. | 18:24 |
| hyakuhei_ | It's less than trivial to do. | 18:24 |
| thomasbiege | yes, that is a problem I encounter too ATM | 18:24 |
| hyakuhei_ | joel-coffman: are you guys doing anything in the world of Swift object encryption? | 18:24 |
| joel-coffman | not at the moment | 18:24 |
| joel-coffman | Cinder and ephemeral storage only right now | 18:25 |
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| joel-coffman | I think Mirantis had some patches / blueprints for Swift encryption | 18:25 |
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| joel-coffman | see http://www.mirantis.com/blog/on-disk-encryption-prototype-for-openstack-swift/ | 18:26 |
| * notmyname lurks | 18:26 | |
| hyakuhei_ | Ah yeah, I think they were pretty bad. | 18:26 |
| hyakuhei_ | but that's what I had in the back of my mind at least.# | 18:26 |
| hyakuhei_ | I'll go take another look | 18:26 |
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| hyakuhei_ | In fact, that's a good newbie task :D | 18:26 |
| joel-coffman | okay, we didn't look too closely at their proposal since Swift is off our radar at the moment | 18:27 |
| nicolae_ | +1! :) | 18:27 |
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| hyakuhei_ | Ok, does anyone want to take an action to take a look at that and start an on-ML discussion before next week? | 18:27 |
| hyakuhei_ | ie. the next meeting | 18:27 |
| thomasbiege | not me sorry (vacation) | 18:28 |
| notmyname | FWIW, encryption doesn't belong in swift core, most likely. but we can discuss this in more depth when you turn focus to it | 18:28 |
| nicolae_ | If that's a newbie task then i can take it, but i won't be ablevto attend the next meeting | 18:28 |
| joel-coffman | we're all swamped trying to get our Cinder code reviewed / accepted :( | 18:28 |
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| hyakuhei_ | no worries joel-coffman - perhaps reach out to the OSSG explicitly for support on that ? | 18:29 |
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| hyakuhei_ | We've got a good community of people but their quiet, if you mail the ML regarding some of the review challenges I'm sure you'll get help | 18:29 |
| hyakuhei_ | notmyname: can you elaborate on that in 30 seconds? | 18:30 |
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| notmyname | hyakuhei_: it either belongs in the client or as the responsibility of the storage volume. either way it is outside the scope of swift | 18:30 |
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| joel-coffman | will do, right now iterating with Cinder folks to address some of their questions | 18:31 |
| hyakuhei_ | In the client doesn't work well at all, there are already options for on-premise swift encryption | 18:31 |
| thomasbiege | ok, need to go | 18:32 |
| thomasbiege | bye! | 18:32 |
| notmyname | hyakuhei_: the third possibility has to do with a deployer key per-tennant or something. but that too can be implemented as a plug-in and doesn't need to be in the core code | 18:32 |
| hyakuhei_ | The volume would need to be aware of the different tenants and how they're indipendantly keyed. Swift needs to be involved because there are all sorts of issues I think, compression, dedupe etc. | 18:32 |
| notmyname | hyakuhei_: nope. same story for compression and dedupe ;-) | 18:32 |
| hyakuhei_ | Yeah, I don't really care where it is as long as a) It's not stupid and b) it actually works | 18:33 |
| notmyname | hyakuhei_: valuable features, but not part of the storage engine code base | 18:33 |
| hyakuhei_ | notmyname: perhaps we can have an on Mailinglist discussion about it? | 18:33 |
| hyakuhei_ | we're over time here. | 18:33 |
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| hyakuhei_ | Thank you everyone, productive meeting! Please feel free to follow-up any conversations on the ML | 18:34 |
| hyakuhei_ | #endmeeting | 18:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:34 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Aug 1 18:34:24 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:34 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-08-01-18.06.html | 18:34 |
| notmyname | hyakuhei_: I'd love to. especially if it means the issue will be put to rest | 18:34 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-08-01-18.06.txt | 18:34 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-08-01-18.06.log.html | 18:34 |
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| hyakuhei_ | notmyname: perfect, mail the ML or me directly | 18:34 |
| notmyname | hyakuhei_: from our perspective (ie swift contributors), the issue has been put to rest. if you bring it up, I'll respond. I won't bring up the issue again myself | 18:36 |
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| harlowja | #start-meeting state-management | 20:00 |
| harlowja | #startmeeting state-management | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Aug 1 20:01:14 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is harlowja. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'state_management' | 20:01 |
| harlowja | howday all! | 20:01 |
| changbl | hello there | 20:02 |
| harlowja | hi hi | 20:02 |
| akarpinska1 | Hi | 20:02 |
| harlowja | hi hi | 20:02 |
| * harlowja waits a few for others | 20:02 | |
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| harlowja | jlucci u around, kevin? | 20:03 |
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| harlowja | ok well anyway, all fine | 20:04 |
| harlowja | #topic status | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "status (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:04 | |
| harlowja | so i've been trying to rebase the cinder patch and make sure thats all working, currently hitting some CI weirdness | 20:04 |
| harlowja | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29862/ | 20:04 |
| harlowja | working with the infra folks to try to figure out whats going on | 20:04 |
| harlowja | also trying to help do reviews at the same time (and other internal y! stuff) | 20:05 |
| kebray | harlowja my apologies, I just got summoned to another meeting. | 20:05 |
| harlowja | np | 20:05 |
| jlucci | Yeah I'm here -sorry | 20:05 |
| jlucci | Just got back from Dallas a couple minutes ago | 20:05 |
| harlowja | ?? | 20:05 |
| harlowja | woah | 20:05 |
| harlowja | ha | 20:05 |
| jlucci | Yeah. I'm that good. haha | 20:05 |
| harlowja | np, just going through status, not sure if u have anything to mention | 20:06 |
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| harlowja | kebray i think submitted the speaker session, so thx kebray :-) | 20:06 |
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| jlucci | Um -just the distributed stuff online, and about to have a tasfklow video/tutorial thingy online | 20:06 |
| jlucci | Was just going to e-mail it out to openstack-dev | 20:06 |
| harlowja | about, wow | 20:06 |
| harlowja | nice | 20:06 |
| harlowja | very cool | 20:07 |
| harlowja | speaker abstract btw | 20:07 |
| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TaskFlow/HavanaSummitPresentationAbstract | 20:07 |
| harlowja | (for HK summit) | 20:07 |
| jlucci | Awesome kebray :D | 20:07 |
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| changbl | good job, like the abstract | 20:07 |
| harlowja | yahoo will hopefully have a few others, time will tell :) | 20:07 |
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| harlowja | changbl thx for fixing a few issues u found :) | 20:08 |
| changbl | np, the code is written well:) | 20:08 |
| changbl | i looked through the code base | 20:08 |
| harlowja | ha, its a continual WIP, thx | 20:08 |
| changbl | sure, will keep watching the code :) | 20:09 |
| harlowja | akarpinska1 anything for u to report, know its late for u so thx for showing up | 20:09 |
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| harlowja | don't give up on blocks, still think it has a place :) | 20:09 |
| harlowja | thx changbl the more eyes the better of course :) | 20:10 |
| akarpinska1 | I'm a little bit confused about what I really need to do with my TaskFlow tasks and with my patch. Want to hear some comments about it. | 20:10 |
| harlowja | sure, np | 20:11 |
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| jlucci | akarpinska1 - anastasia I'm guessing? | 20:12 |
| akarpinska1 | yes | 20:12 |
| jlucci | haha Awesome. Yeah - I'm still looking through that doc you sent out | 20:12 |
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| harlowja | so akarpinska1 i put a few review comments up, nothing major, so that will be part 1 i think | 20:12 |
| harlowja | kevin i think will land his db stuff soon to, so then there will be the question of how thats used there to | 20:13 |
| jlucci | Awesome. I'll get to those/doc as soon as I post that video | 20:13 |
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| kchenweijie | yup. got about 2/3 of it commented today | 20:13 |
| harlowja | sweet | 20:13 |
| kchenweijie | taking a break from commenting for a little bit | 20:13 |
| kchenweijie | but it will be up there by tomorrow morning at the latest | 20:14 |
| harlowja | akarpinska1 so also once jlucci i think is ok with the block stuff (or other comments) then i think that will allow for a little more work there, then we can get that in, make more adjustments and such | 20:14 |
| harlowja | kchenweijie sounds great | 20:14 |
| harlowja | more comments the better :) | 20:14 |
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| harlowja | akarpinska1 sound good? | 20:14 |
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| harlowja | its a in progress library, so nothing will always be clear :) | 20:14 |
| harlowja | although i'll try to help it be, ha | 20:15 |
| akarpinska1 | of course | 20:15 |
| harlowja | sounds great | 20:15 |
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| harlowja | #topic projects_using | 20:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "projects_using (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:16 | |
| harlowja | so if its fine just want to see where we are with other projects on getting usage of taskflow in | 20:17 |
| harlowja | after i fix this cinder stuff, i'm gonna try to see about possible nova 'small' use-case soon | 20:17 |
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| harlowja | akarpinska1 might also be doing another cinder use-case, which is cool | 20:17 |
| jlucci | Awesome - I'm getting ready to start doing some trove integration | 20:17 |
| harlowja | and jlucci maybe reddwarf/trove | 20:17 |
| lifeless | dkranz: mtreinish: there is regex exclusion | 20:17 |
| harlowja | cool | 20:17 |
| lifeless | dkranz: mtreinish: will find you in -qa to follow up. | 20:17 |
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| dkranz | lifeless: Thanks. | 20:18 |
| harlowja | hmmm | 20:18 |
| akarpinska1 | I think, we need to choose one implementation and then apply it to Cinder | 20:18 |
| jlucci | Implementation being patterns, or current task flow vs. new block approach? | 20:18 |
| akarpinska1 | Now we have two commands rewritten in different manner | 20:18 |
| changbl | Can I ask what is "block"? | 20:19 |
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| jlucci | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/36472/ | 20:19 |
| jlucci | It's a new way of running tasks | 20:19 |
| jlucci | I'm sure akarpinska1 can explain it much better than me though. (: | 20:19 |
| changbl | what is different? any brief intro? | 20:19 |
| harlowja | akarpinska1 i'm fine with picking one way, just unsure which way still, i think the current refactoring can be adjusted, but i don't want to miss H release for that | 20:20 |
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| akarpinska1 | There is a documentation https://docs.google.com/document/d/1376-8vRgJRvbvQLY4ZBqmClJVa3HwCOaMoO2yRpOC1o/edit?usp=sharing | 20:20 |
| harlowja | to me a block is similar to a way to structure a task right | 20:22 |
| harlowja | *structure the way a task set is ran | 20:22 |
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| harlowja | which also can be composed of sub-blocks | 20:22 |
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| changbl | ok | 20:23 |
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| akarpinska1 | harlowja: in your implementation there are three types of flows, blocks give us a possibility to combine different behavior in one flow | 20:23 |
| changbl | will read the doc, thanks | 20:23 |
| harlowja | akarpinska1 ya, which i think is good | 20:23 |
| harlowja | changbl thx, hopefully it makes it more clear | 20:24 |
| changbl | harlowja, np | 20:24 |
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| akarpinska1 | also I tried to split it on small components to make it flexible to change | 20:24 |
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| harlowja | ya, which is good stuff, i'm still myself trying to figure out how it fits, thats all :) | 20:25 |
| harlowja | the challenge becomes make something really easy for library users to use, without adding to much new syntax/structure that they need to learn | 20:25 |
| changbl | agree, harlowja | 20:26 |
| harlowja | blocks has alot of new structure right now that they must learn, thats my current worry about it | 20:26 |
| akarpinska1 | but user need to know only about the blocks | 20:26 |
| changbl | as long as it can do the job, the simpler, the better | 20:26 |
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| akarpinska1 | by default user should know nothing about the actions and builders until he wants to change internal implementation of the flow | 20:27 |
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| akarpinska1 | User will describe his tasks and the flow structure with the blocks. That's all | 20:28 |
| harlowja | sure, sure, not saying its bad or anything, just the block way does require a little bit more learning | 20:29 |
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| harlowja | i'm still working through my understanding of it also, so it might just be fine :) | 20:30 |
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| harlowja | its just the harder it is to compose these, the more pushback i think we will get | 20:30 |
| harlowja | the nice thing about the linear_flow is that it likely solves most of the use-cases of openstack, ha | 20:31 |
| harlowja | i can see the sequential block possibly being the same thing | 20:31 |
| akarpinska1 | Yes, like in Cinder create_snapshot, I used only the sequential block | 20:31 |
| harlowja | ya, i'll try to find some time to mess around with the code also, that i think will help | 20:32 |
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| harlowja | maybe jlucci and changbl and others with free time (if any) can also | 20:32 |
| harlowja | sound good akarpinska1 ? | 20:32 |
| changbl | sure, will read the code and help with code review | 20:32 |
| harlowja | thx | 20:33 |
| jlucci | Sounds good | 20:33 |
| akarpinska1 | Will be excellent to get feedback | 20:33 |
| harlowja | def | 20:33 |
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| harlowja | sounds great | 20:33 |
| harlowja | i had another random idea also, but might not be needed if blocks works out | 20:34 |
| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TaskMachine | 20:34 |
| harlowja | something else to read over, ha | 20:34 |
| harlowja | might be to much though | 20:34 |
| harlowja | let me change topic to open discussion, since thats more releated to that :) | 20:34 |
| harlowja | #topic open-discuss | 20:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open-discuss (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:34 | |
| changbl | one question: shall we have more examples in docs/ ? Those examples are quite helpful | 20:35 |
| harlowja | i think so :) | 20:35 |
| changbl | harlowja, great | 20:36 |
| harlowja | i'll try to make some of those up also, jlucci will your video introduce any? | 20:36 |
| harlowja | akarpinska1 if u have any thoughts on https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TaskMachine let me know | 20:36 |
| harlowja | it might be to similar to blocks that its not needed | 20:36 |
| akarpinska1 | Interesting, trying to understand | 20:36 |
| harlowja | np | 20:36 |
| jlucci | Yup. Although the video is geared towards a distributed backend, so the majority of the examples lean more towards that pattern | 20:36 |
| harlowja | sure sure | 20:37 |
| changbl | looking forward your video, jlucci | 20:37 |
| harlowja | changbl i think after we get some of the DB stuff in it will become really neat with examples | 20:37 |
| changbl | harlowja, yep! | 20:37 |
| harlowja | like start a example process, have it do something, kill it, then see it resume after starting another process up | 20:38 |
| harlowja | like magic, ha | 20:38 |
| jlucci | hehe | 20:38 |
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| jlucci | But yeah - the DB stuff will provide for a ton of new functionality | 20:38 |
| harlowja | akarpinska1 the idea was along the line that all these task things could be instrumented in a 'machine' that is devoted to running them with its own concept of 'memory' | 20:39 |
| harlowja | then openstack is powered by a machine that runs tasks | 20:39 |
| harlowja | ha | 20:39 |
| harlowja | was just an interesting idea :-p | 20:39 |
| harlowja | *not a physical machine, but a mini-one that runs in memory | 20:39 |
| harlowja | and has enough control over what its running and its own 'memory' that we can just save/restore the machine | 20:40 |
| akarpinska1 | I'm trying to imagine how it can be implemented) sounds interesting, but it can be a lot of questions | 20:40 |
| harlowja | well its similiar to the block stuff i think in a way | 20:40 |
| harlowja | you have a concept of 'memory' there | 20:40 |
| harlowja | and a runtime stack (block structure) | 20:40 |
| akarpinska1 | flow.kwargs is a memory ) | 20:41 |
| harlowja | ya | 20:41 |
| harlowja | so they are similar in that way | 20:41 |
| harlowja | if we had such machine it could be the base for all other patterns ontop | 20:41 |
| harlowja | block pattern, linear, ... | 20:41 |
| harlowja | *maybe* | 20:41 |
| akarpinska1 | I thought about some flows manager, maybe it can be a TaskMachine | 20:41 |
| harlowja | possibly could be | 20:42 |
| harlowja | the neat thing about the machine is that i think jlucci and all the dynamic stuff that is wanted there can also use the same machine | 20:42 |
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| harlowja | i'm not sure how blocks would fit into the dynamic modification model | 20:42 |
| jlucci | Yeah, I'm still working through that | 20:42 |
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| jlucci | Need to get more familiar with the block code as well before I can really say something one way or the other | 20:43 |
| harlowja | ya, same here :) | 20:43 |
| changbl | me too ~ | 20:43 |
| akarpinska1 | But one problem is that the service executes each command in the separate thread, as I know | 20:43 |
| harlowja | what do u mean there | 20:44 |
| akarpinska1 | if we have a task machine, OpenStack services must be redesigned not to create a thread for the API request, but to redirect it to the TaskMachine | 20:44 |
| harlowja | well depends on what level it is integrated with | 20:45 |
| harlowja | an API request could just use a pool of machines | 20:45 |
| harlowja | or make a new one | 20:45 |
| harlowja | doesn't have to be 1:1 since the machine isn't phsyical | 20:45 |
| akarpinska1 | one machine for one request? | 20:45 |
| harlowja | well the machine is just software, so it could be that | 20:46 |
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| harlowja | probably to complex for the foreseable future i think, but an interesting idea, ha | 20:46 |
| harlowja | most of openstack i think will do with the basics for a long time, ha | 20:46 |
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| harlowja | *or be happy with the basics, even just the restructuring into 'tasks' is a big accomplishment | 20:47 |
| harlowja | so maybe this is at stage ++++++ | 20:47 |
| harlowja | haha | 20:47 |
| changbl | extremely like this is the case:) | 20:47 |
| harlowja | ;) | 20:47 |
| changbl | s/like/likely/ | 20:47 |
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| harlowja | ya, interesting to think about, i'm pretty sure it will take a while to just do the task restructuring in all the projects | 20:48 |
| akarpinska1 | one machine for the whole service can easily lock resources | 20:48 |
| harlowja | ya, akarpinska1 i don't think we would want 1 'task' machine | 20:49 |
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| harlowja | but if we can offer some neat possiblities, which i think we already are starting to, the more adoption we will get, which is great, but have to keep the complexity low, but features high, not an easy balance :) | 20:50 |
| akarpinska1 | 1 machine for one request is easily to implement =) | 20:50 |
| harlowja | akarpinska1 ya, it likely is, it becomes an interstsing question if the 'machine' thing could be the base for all task patterns | 20:50 |
| harlowja | be nice to have 1 lowest level component that everything is built on for said patterns | 20:51 |
| harlowja | blocks, distributed... | 20:51 |
| akarpinska1 | In my implementation Flow class is like a flow controller, maybe it could be a machine later | 20:51 |
| harlowja | the neat thing about the machine is that there can be conditional tasks that let u choose which task to put on the 'machine' stack next | 20:51 |
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| harlowja | akarpinska1 it might be able to | 20:52 |
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| harlowja | anyway, somethign to think about, think if we can get more project adoption that will be the key for the short-term | 20:53 |
| harlowja | which means just beginning to use what we have and adjusting openstack code to use it, while at the same time learning from said adjustments and changing taskflow | 20:53 |
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| harlowja | then we'll have the best library and the usage in openstack in many places :) | 20:53 |
| harlowja | a win for all | 20:53 |
| jlucci | :D | 20:54 |
| harlowja | sound good to everyone? :) | 20:54 |
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| jlucci | yup | 20:55 |
| harlowja | sweet! and just in time | 20:55 |
| harlowja | any further stuff, #openstack-state-management | 20:55 |
| harlowja | keep up the good work all! | 20:55 |
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| jlucci | thanks | 20:55 |
| changbl | harlowja, sounds good | 20:55 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:56 |
| akarpinska1 | agree :) | 20:56 |
| harlowja | woot | 20:56 |
| harlowja | #endmeeting | 20:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Aug 1 20:56:26 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management/2013/state_management.2013-08-01-20.01.html | 20:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management/2013/state_management.2013-08-01-20.01.txt | 20:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management/2013/state_management.2013-08-01-20.01.log.html | 20:56 |
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| lcazares | does anybody know about QA meetings? I though it was held Weekly on Thursdays at 1700 UTC? | 22:14 |
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| clarkb | lcazares: that sounds correct | 22:14 |
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| clarkb | lcazares: there was a meeting today at 1700UTC for QA | 22:15 |
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