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| mestery | Hi | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| pcm_ | hi | 14:00 |
| mestery | #startmeeting networking_ml2 | 14:00 |
| rkukura | hi | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 31 14:00:24 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_ml2' | 14:00 |
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| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ML2 Agenda | 14:00 |
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| mestery | rcurran, apech, asomya: here? | 14:01 |
| apech | dyup | 14:01 |
| rcurran | rcurran here | 14:01 |
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| mestery | OK, so today, I think there are a few discussion points we should cover first in the agenda. | 14:01 |
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| mestery | #topic Discussion ITems | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion ITems (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 14:01 | |
| sukhdev | Good Morning | 14:02 |
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| mestery | The first item is the directory structure for mechanism drivers. | 14:02 |
| mestery | sukhdev had sent an email to start that discussion. | 14:02 |
| mestery | Have most people seen this? I think we copied most everyone. | 14:02 |
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| mestery | I think the consensus on the email thread was to create separate directories under neutron/plugins/ml2/drivers/ for each MechanismDriver. | 14:03 |
| mestery | Are people ok with this approach? | 14:03 |
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| sukhdev | Yes - that sounds reasonable | 14:03 |
| rkukura | so drivers can still be single modules or directories, right? | 14:04 |
| mestery | rkukura: Yes, we won't enforce a directory. | 14:04 |
| rkukura | but same naming convention, indicating type vs. mech | 14:04 |
| rcurran | but it reads like both cisco and arista will be creating dirs | 14:04 |
| mestery | rcurran: Yes, each vendor can create a directory for their files. | 14:04 |
| rcurran | and ODL | 14:04 |
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| mestery | neutron/plugins/ml2/drivers/[arista,cisco,odl] | 14:05 |
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| mestery | rkukura: So, for single file drivers, you mean something like "mech_*" and "type_*", right? | 14:05 |
| asomya | directories would be needed for multiple files for a mechanism drivers | 14:05 |
| rkukura | are we expecting these directories to contain a single driver, or multiple drivers? | 14:05 |
| rcurran | long term for cisco, multiple | 14:06 |
| apech | for arista, the main motivation is for drivers that want to split support into multiple files (with separate exceptions, config, db, and driver file) | 14:06 |
| rcurran | yes, cisco will do the same | 14:06 |
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| mestery | apech: Yes, and it makes sense to keep those in one directory. Same for Cisco. | 14:06 |
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| rkukura | For a single driver with multiple files, I think the directory should be mech_* or type_* | 14:07 |
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| mestery | rkukura: So you want the directory named that way too? I think that sounds reasonable. | 14:07 |
| rkukura | But for a set of related drivers, maybe even some mech and some type, naming the directory cisco is fine | 14:08 |
| sukhdev | so then it will ....neutron/plugins/ml2/drivers/mech_arista, mech_cisco ? | 14:08 |
| rcurran | so as an example ../drivers/mech_cisco/mech_cisco_nexus.py? | 14:08 |
| apech | my only concern would be the need to rename the directory when you add the first type driver | 14:08 |
| apech | though at this point we have no plans of doing that, so it may be a bit academic | 14:08 |
| rkukura | rcurran: I'd go with dirvers/cisco/mech_cisco_nexus.py | 14:08 |
| rcurran | ok, that's what i thought :-) .... didn't understand the mech_* comment from above | 14:09 |
| rkukura | nice thing is that with python entry points in the config files rather than class names, we can reorganize without breaking configs | 14:09 |
| mestery | So, to summarize: Single file mech drivers are in drivers/mech_*.py. Single mech drivers with multiple files are in drivers/mech_*/. And multiple mech drivers from one vendor are in drivers/[vendor]/ | 14:09 |
| rkukura | mestery: +1 | 14:09 |
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| apech | okay, works for me | 14:10 |
| mestery | #info Single file mech drivers are in drivers/mech_*.py. Single mech drivers with multiple files are in drivers/mech_*/. And multiple mech drivers from one vendor are in drivers/[vendor]/ | 14:10 |
| rcurran | ok, but i should create cisco as drivers/cisco since we will (in the future) create other drivers | 14:10 |
| mestery | rcurran: Yes, that is the way to go. | 14:10 |
| rcurran | got it | 14:10 |
| mestery | OK, lets move on to the next agenda item. | 14:11 |
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| sukhdev | so, for us it will mech_arista then | 14:11 |
| mestery | API Extensions in MechanismDrivers. | 14:11 |
| rcurran | because arista only plans on supporting one driver in the future? | 14:11 |
| mestery | asomya, do you want to talk about this one? | 14:11 |
| asomya | mestery: sure | 14:12 |
| apech | sukhdev: that's what i understood | 14:12 |
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| asomya | So currently ML2 loads all extensions, we might want to make is selective by loading only supported_extensions from mechanism and type drivers loaded | 14:12 |
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| mestery | asomya: Also, what if a particular MechanismDriver wants to implement additional API extensions? | 14:13 |
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| asomya | We can read the list from each mechanism driver and load those extensions including custom API extensions per mechanism driver. This list can be maintained per mech driver in the Mech manager | 14:14 |
| rkukura | tricky part is defining what it means to "support an extension" when multiple drivers are involved that might not all support the extension | 14:15 |
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| mestery | rkukura: Agreed. | 14:15 |
| mestery | OK, so any other comments on API extensions in MechanismDrivers? | 14:16 |
| rkukura | I guess there might be case where the extension is explicitly driver-specific, like maybe an API for managing the controller that driver supports or something | 14:16 |
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| rkukura | so allowing drivers to define completely new resources should be well-defined | 14:17 |
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| rkukura | but if an extension adds attributes to network or port, not all drivers may know what to do with these | 14:17 |
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| rkukura | do we have any short term needs for any of this, or should we try to defer API extensibility to icehouse? | 14:18 |
| mestery | I think we can defer this to Icehouse, frankly. apech, rcurran, asomya, what do you think? | 14:18 |
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| apech | no short term need here | 14:19 |
| rcurran | opps .. where did asomya go :-) | 14:19 |
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| asomya | sosry lost internet for a bit | 14:19 |
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| rcurran | arvind - i don't think i need ext for cisco_nexus ... svi support ? | 14:20 |
| asomya | rcurran: nope no extensions needed for that | 14:20 |
| rcurran | ok then for havana, i'm good | 14:21 |
| asomya | So i was suggesting maintaining a dictionary of supported extensions per driver in the Mechanism Manager and routing API calls to each mech driver based on that dict | 14:21 |
| mestery | #info Defer API extensibility for ML2 to Icehouse | 14:21 |
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| rcurran | asomya - you may have missed the question - does ODL need this for havana? | 14:22 |
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| rcurran | or can it wait until icehouse | 14:22 |
| asomya | rcurran: nope, ODL doesn't need this for hanava | 14:22 |
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| mestery | OK, so we will defer API extensibility to Icehouse then. | 14:23 |
| mestery | Moving on to the next topic for discussion. | 14:23 |
| asomya | mestery: +1, it's not critical to have this | 14:23 |
| mestery | RPC extensibility in ML2. | 14:23 |
| mestery | rkukura, rcurran, and asomya and I spoke about this briefly on the phone yesterday. | 14:23 |
| mestery | asomya: Want to elaborate here? You hit this with ODL. | 14:24 |
| asomya | mestery: sure | 14:24 |
| asomya | The ODL implementation relies on some custom RPC calls from the agent to the driver to do it's job. In ML2 all RPc calls are routed to the type_manager, we need a select few calls to also come to the mechanism_manager to be distributed to the mech drivers | 14:25 |
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| asomya | We talked about a shot term solution of creating a second topic (e.g. mechanism) to be routed to the mechanism drivers and consumed by the mechanism driver instead of the type_driver | 14:26 |
| mestery | So for this, we have an immediate need in Havana for this functionality, though it's tempered by the fact that some changes in ODL may preclude us needing an agent for ODL to work with Neutron. | 14:26 |
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| asomya | the type driver can still consume the conventional dhcp, l3 etc. calls based on the old topic name | 14:26 |
| rkukura | So right now the type_tunnel.TunnelRpcCallbackMixin is inherited by RpcCallbacks. Would a more general approach for drivers to supply callback mixins do the job? | 14:27 |
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| asomya | rkukura: that might do the trick as well. So will the drivers themselves be inheriting the rpccallback classes in that case? | 14:28 |
| rkukura | asomya: I was just thinking that if a driver wanted to define its own callback, there would be some way to register it | 14:29 |
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| rkukura | I'm not 100% clear on how the RPC dispatching works, so maybe drivers can already do this themselves by defining a new topic | 14:29 |
| asomya | I tried with the conventional way of implementing a second RPC inside the ODL mech driver but that didn't work, the topic name was the same and everything got sent to the type driver. I'll try it with a new topic name | 14:30 |
| rkukura | asomya: If some hooks are needed for the RPC topic registration to work, we can add that | 14:31 |
| asomya | rkukura: sounds great, lemme try a ne topic and i'll get back to the group on what's needed | 14:31 |
| mestery | #action asomya to try out MechanismDriver specific RPC calls with a new topic and report back on how that works | 14:32 |
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| rkukura | The other idea kicked around was having the existing RPCs such as get_device_details() call into the MechanismDriver to which the port is bound so it can add any needed attributes to the response, or call a controller | 14:32 |
| asomya | rkukura: But that was very specific to the ODL use case, could be other mech drivers that need even different RPc hooks | 14:33 |
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| rkukura | could certainly do similar driver calls for update_device_[up|down] | 14:35 |
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| mestery | OK, so asomya, can you try out the new topic and see if that gets the ODL Mech driver going in the short term here? | 14:36 |
| rkukura | Lets see how the portbinding works out, and we can MechanismDriver calls to the L2 agent RPCs if that seems to make sense | 14:36 |
| asomya | mestery: sure | 14:36 |
| mestery | So lets move on to the next topic. | 14:36 |
| mestery | #topic Blueprint Updates | 14:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprint Updates (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 14:36 | |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/ml2-portbinding ML2 Port Binding | 14:37 |
| mestery | rkukura: You led us into the next topic. :) | 14:37 |
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| rkukura | finally started working on it | 14:37 |
| rkukura | with luck, may have a patch at the end of the week | 14:37 |
| mestery | rkukura: Great! I know some MechanismDriver writes who will anxiously be waiting. :) | 14:38 |
| mestery | Any questions on ML2 Port Binding? | 14:38 |
| apech | nope, looking forward to it, thanks rkukura | 14:39 |
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| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ml2-multi-segment-api ML2 Multi Segment API | 14:39 |
| mestery | So, this one is low priority for H3. | 14:39 |
| mestery | I'm not sure if we should prioritize this for H3 or make this an Icehouse thing. Thoughts from others? | 14:40 |
| asomya | mestery: Do any mechanism drivers need to implement this asap? | 14:40 |
| mestery | asomya: None that I'm aware of, no. | 14:41 |
| mestery | At least in the Havana timeframe. | 14:41 |
| sukhdev | Nope | 14:41 |
| rkukura | I think our priority here should be to make sure the extension being added for NVP is defined properly, and implement it if we get a chance | 14:41 |
| mestery | rkukura: Agreed. That hasn't gone up yet, I'll make sure to stay on top of that since this BP is assigned to me. | 14:42 |
| mestery | #action mestery to monitor NVP extension for multiple provider networks in relation to ML2 multi-segment API | 14:42 |
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| rkukura | I think I was supposed to start an email thread, and still might when I review the NVP patch | 14:43 |
| mestery | rkukra: OK, thanks! | 14:43 |
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| rkukura | mestery: you are welcome to do that if you get to it first, and discussion seems to be needed | 14:43 |
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| mestery | rkukura: OK, sounds good. | 14:43 |
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| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ml2-typedriver-extra-port-info ML2 TypeDriver Extra Port Info | 14:43 |
| mestery | ZangMingjie: Here? | 14:43 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/37893/ ExtraPort Info Review | 14:44 |
| ZangMingJie | ye | 14:44 |
| mestery | So, I provided some comments on this one based on what rkukura and I discussed Monday. | 14:44 |
| mestery | We thought instead of this, we could overload "physical network". | 14:44 |
| mestery | But, as ZangMingJie pointed out, this BP may provide more flexibility. | 14:44 |
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| ZangMingJie | I think it may be a long term process to replace the 3-tuple with a custimizable arbitrary data struct | 14:45 |
| rkukura | looks like this is doing with TypeDrivers what I was proposing to do for the bound MechanismDriver! | 14:45 |
| mestery | rkukura: Looking at it, I think you're right! | 14:45 |
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| mestery | ZangMingJie: I will re-review this today, but I think I'm more inclined to approve it now after discussions over the last day. | 14:46 |
| rkukura | One question is whether the ml2 schema should continue to store the 3-tuple, or maybe instead store an encoded dict for each segment | 14:46 |
| ZangMingJie | what about each type driver manage its own database store | 14:47 |
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| rkukura | ZangMingJie: That is also worth considering | 14:48 |
| rkukura | I will definitely review this current patch in detail | 14:48 |
| ZangMingJie | ok, thank you | 14:48 |
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| mestery | OK, we only have 11 minutes left, lets move on. | 14:49 |
| mestery | #topic Bugs | 14:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 14:49 | |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/37963/ ML2 devstack | 14:49 |
| mestery | The good news is this change was merged yesterday. | 14:49 |
| mestery | So if you haven't tried it yet, now it's even easier. | 14:49 |
| mestery | The next step for devstack is to see if we can get it to default to ML2 instead of OVS. | 14:49 |
| mestery | I will likely open a bug for that and work with deantroyer and sdague to see how we can make that happen. | 14:50 |
| rkukura | mestery: +1 | 14:50 |
| sukhdev | mestery: thanks- this will help | 14:50 |
| rkukura | In the mean time, maybe an email to openstack-dev encouraging people to try out ml2 in devstack would be a good idea | 14:51 |
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| rkukura | Along with some instructions on the ML2 wiki | 14:51 |
| mestery | #action mestery to send email to openstack-dev encouraging people to try ML2 out | 14:51 |
| mestery | #action mestery to update the wiki with ML2 devstack instructions | 14:51 |
| mestery | Good ideas rkukura! | 14:51 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/38662/ Enable gre and vxlan with the same ID | 14:52 |
| mestery | matrohon: Here? | 14:52 |
| rkukura | then we'll start getting some new bugs to work on;-) | 14:52 |
| mestery | rkukura: Heh. :) | 14:52 |
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| mestery | The review I just posted is for this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1196963 | 14:53 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1196963 in neutron "Update the OVS agent code to program tunnels using ports instead of tunnel IDs" [Wishlist,In progress] | 14:53 |
| mestery | We should all review this, as this will be nice to get in for H3 to allow for GRE and VXLAN tunnels to have the same tunnel ID, which they currently can't in ML2. | 14:53 |
| mestery | #topic Questions and wrap up | 14:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Questions and wrap up (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 14:54 | |
| mestery | I skipped a few items due to time, is there anything else we should cover here in the last 5 minutes? | 14:54 |
| asomya | Can someone add a few lines to the wiki on how the pre- and post- calls work in the mech drivers? | 14:54 |
| apech | asomya: sure, i can take that on | 14:55 |
| mestery | apech: Can you take that one? | 14:55 |
| asomya | apech: thanks :) | 14:55 |
| mestery | #action apech to add some notes to the wiki about how the pre- and post- calls work | 14:55 |
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| mestery | So, the Neutron feature cutoff is end ofday Augsut 23. | 14:56 |
| mestery | And the release date is September 5. | 14:56 |
| mestery | So we don't have a lot of time left in Havana. | 14:56 |
| mestery | Just FYI, no pressure or anthing. :) | 14:56 |
| sukhdev | :-) | 14:57 |
| mestery | OK, so thanks everyone for all your efforts on ML2! | 14:57 |
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| mestery | We'll do this again next week, same UTC-time, same IRC-channel. | 14:57 |
| mestery | #endmeeting | 14:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:57 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 31 14:57:45 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:57 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_ml2/2013/networking_ml2.2013-07-31-14.00.html | 14:57 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_ml2/2013/networking_ml2.2013-07-31-14.00.txt | 14:57 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_ml2/2013/networking_ml2.2013-07-31-14.00.log.html | 14:57 |
| rkukura | thanks mestery and all! | 14:58 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #startmeeting XenAPI | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 31 15:01:04 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi' | 15:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | Hello! Hands up, who is around today? | 15:01 |
| matel | one | 15:01 |
| BobBall | two | 15:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyone got specific agenda items? | 15:02 |
| BobBall | I've got a fun bug to talk about | 15:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:03 |
| BobBall | potentially two fun bugs | 15:03 |
| matel | And I have a question for john. | 15:03 |
| BobBall | Mate's got a blueprint | 15:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | no actions actions from last meeting, so lets dive into blueprints | 15:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Blueprints | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:03 | |
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| matel | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/xenapi-supported-image-import-export | 15:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | I just submitted a change for my last H-3 blueprint | 15:04 |
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| BobBall | shall we talk about Mate's first? | 15:04 |
| BobBall | How do we get this BP approved and prioritised? ;) | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | talk to russell b, after targetting it, as ever | 15:05 |
| matel | I thought we just need to get it done. | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | but I suspect they might start rejecting, due to review bandwidth | 15:05 |
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| BobBall | matel: if the BP hasn't been approved some core members might not want it in ;) | 15:05 |
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| johnthetubaguy | core members don't approve blueprints, its drivers | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | i.e. not me | 15:05 |
| BobBall | I meant core members might not approve it in the review | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | oh right, yup, I would reject it on those grounds | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | so matel, whats the question? | 15:06 |
| BobBall | perhaps we should just close the BP and raise it as the bug that it is ;) | 15:06 |
| matel | I think someone found some ancient cinder database code fragments. | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | well, if you select the series goal of H-3, russellb will probably take a look for you | 15:07 |
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| matel | Let me link in the change... | 15:07 |
| matel | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/38657/ | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | ?? | 15:07 |
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| matel | I think all those sm_ functions should go away. | 15:08 |
| matel | Do you have any other ideas about those functions? | 15:08 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, they should die, I guess we forgot to remove those? | 15:09 |
| matel | I think so. | 15:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | back to the blueprint | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | what were the questions there? | 15:11 |
| matel | I have no questions. | 15:11 |
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| matel | Bob? | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, cool | 15:11 |
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| johnthetubaguy | any more blueprints? | 15:11 |
| BobBall | No questions from me | 15:12 |
| ekarlso- | so | 15:12 |
| ekarlso- | odd question | 15:12 |
| ekarlso- | would you guys say that xen is easier to setup for OS atm ? | 15:12 |
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| BobBall | easier than what? | 15:13 |
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| ekarlso- | kvm BobBall :) | 15:14 |
| BobBall | It depends on the scale your looking at :) | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | can we move that to the opendiscussion section? | 15:15 |
| BobBall | Devstack they should be the same - you just run a script for both | 15:15 |
| ekarlso- | sure :) | 15:15 |
| BobBall | Large scale, XS should be easier - since you just deploy a VM | 15:15 |
| BobBall | sorry! | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | no worries, its a bit subjective | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Docs | 15:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:16 | |
| johnthetubaguy | did people look up that blueprint | 15:16 |
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| BobBall | which one? | 15:17 |
| BobBall | the one Mate is working on? | 15:17 |
| BobBall | *confused* | 15:17 |
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| johnthetubaguy | not sure, the doc blueprint mentioned yesterday | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | I mean last week | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyway I will take a look | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | #action johnthetubaguy to look for xenapi doc blueprint and bugs | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Bugs | 15:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:19 | |
| BobBall | oh sorry yes that one | 15:19 |
| BobBall | no - I haven't seen it | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: you had a bug? | 15:19 |
| BobBall | Couple of very nice bugs from me! | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | fireaway | 15:20 |
| matel | I'll be back in a sec. | 15:20 |
| BobBall | #link https://code.launchpad.net/bugs/1206154 | 15:20 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1206154 in devstack "uninstall_package can remove dependencies" [Undecided,In progress] | 15:20 |
| BobBall | I like this one | 15:20 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yes, its nasty | 15:20 |
| BobBall | I'm working on getting devstack working with xenserver-core - and ran into this | 15:20 |
| BobBall | in summary - devstack removes python-lxml so that pip can install it later | 15:20 |
| BobBall | the removal forces a removal of xen(!) | 15:21 |
| BobBall | which made me a very unhappy person | 15:21 |
| BobBall | so in order to run devstack in dom0 we need this fixed somehow | 15:21 |
| BobBall | but the way to fix it is very unclear | 15:21 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, not nice | 15:21 |
| BobBall | any comments on the bug or change would be appreciated | 15:21 |
| BobBall | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/39100/ | 15:21 |
| BobBall | Suggestions are needed I think | 15:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | well the suggested change looked OK ish to me | 15:21 |
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| BobBall | not really - it breaks the package management system - you can't expect people to not do a yum update at some point which would remove Xen or install python-lxml | 15:22 |
| BobBall | my change was naieve and I hadn't thought that far forward | 15:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, I see | 15:22 |
| BobBall | it fixes it in the short term but it'll still break long term | 15:22 |
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| johnthetubaguy | well the alternative is to run nova in a virtual env in devstack | 15:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | I gues | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | s | 15:23 |
| BobBall | not just nova | 15:23 |
| BobBall | _everything_... :) | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | exactly | 15:23 |
| BobBall | and that's going to be a big devstack change | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm, maybe not as bad as you think | 15:23 |
| BobBall | logical change even if not physical | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | just activate the virtual env on the first line, that might work | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | the packages will just install stuff in the system, but nova will ignore those | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | i mean everything, not just nova | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | its how we run in production at rax | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | virtual env that is | 15:24 |
| BobBall | indeed | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, more bugs? | 15:24 |
| BobBall | I had a second one but I've lost it now | 15:24 |
| BobBall | oh yes - had some fun with CentOS 6.4 | 15:25 |
| BobBall | just generic fun though | 15:25 |
| BobBall | around requests version 1.2.3 - installed by CentOS - and openstack/requiremenst restricts to <1.2.3 | 15:25 |
| BobBall | this is something that's already been "fixed" and is working it's way through | 15:25 |
| BobBall | but wanted to raise it for others to be aware | 15:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, cool | 15:25 |
| BobBall | because it took me a while to understand it | 15:26 |
| BobBall | and I know that some at RAX might be poking at CentOS 6.4 somepoint ;) | 15:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | #info running devstack on dom0 for CentOS 6.4 is a WIP | 15:26 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I got a note from PVO about that stuff a few moments ago, but he is a bit before that | 15:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool, any more for any more? | 15:26 |
| matel | im done | 15:27 |
| BobBall | I'm done | 15:27 |
| BobBall | I should(?) have more to report next week | 15:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | any progress towards gating this week? | 15:27 |
| BobBall | oh | 15:27 |
| BobBall | nah - that's starting on Monday I hope | 15:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK | 15:27 |
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| BobBall | although if this devstack in dom0 goes well | 15:27 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #topic Open Discussion | 15:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:27 | |
| johnthetubaguy | any more for any more? | 15:27 |
| BobBall | I hope we can look at gating on xenserver-core with devstack in dom0 and a restricted set of tests just for nova / driver | 15:27 |
| * BobBall looks at ekarlso- | 15:28 | |
| johnthetubaguy | that would be a very welcome addition to the gate :) | 15:28 |
| BobBall | yeah | 15:28 |
| BobBall | but it's still not XenServer - so I want both | 15:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | although, is that with some Xen simulator? | 15:28 |
| BobBall | no | 15:28 |
| BobBall | full on Xen ;) | 15:28 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I was worried you might say that, on what cloud can you get that going? | 15:29 |
| BobBall | it's just an HVM guest | 15:29 |
| BobBall | you can't run nested HVM but you can run PV (e.g. cirros) | 15:29 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yes, that would do the trick I guess | 15:29 |
| BobBall | so in theory it should run on either - although I haven't tested on HP | 15:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | just run in PV | 15:29 |
| BobBall | Ant has tested it on RAX | 15:29 |
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| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | I know we can do HVM, just its not exposed | 15:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, getting distracted | 15:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | any more news? | 15:30 |
| BobBall | huh? | 15:30 |
| BobBall | Well - this is open discussion :) unless ekarlso- turns up we can carry on chatting for another 30 minutes :D | 15:30 |
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| johnthetubaguy | OK | 15:31 |
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| johnthetubaguy | probably best just to ping people on #openstack | 15:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | I guess we are done | 15:31 |
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| johnthetubaguy | ekarlso- ^ | 15:31 |
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| johnthetubaguy | thanks for today | 15:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | talk soon | 15:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | #endmeeting | 15:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:32 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 31 15:32:15 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:32 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-07-31-15.01.html | 15:32 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-07-31-15.01.txt | 15:32 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-07-31-15.01.log.html | 15:32 |
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| winston-1 | hi, cinder folks~ | 16:00 |
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| kmartin | hi winston-1 | 16:00 |
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| winston-1 | kmartin: hey :) | 16:00 |
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| avishay | hello hello | 16:01 |
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| tjones | Hi folks - i am tracy jones from vmware. I'm attending for our vmware folks who are working on cinder - but they are in India. I work on the nova team primarily | 16:02 |
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| winston-1 | tjones: hey | 16:02 |
| avishay | tjones: welcome | 16:02 |
| tjones | thanks :-) | 16:02 |
| winston-1 | tjones: it's only 11pm in India. Get them up. :) | 16:03 |
| kartikaditya | Im here | 16:03 |
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| winston-1 | kartikaditya: ha~ | 16:03 |
| kartikaditya | winston-1: hi there! | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | hehe | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | I'm late | 16:03 |
| tjones | LOL - Hey Kartik ! | 16:03 |
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| jgriffith | #start meeting cinder | 16:03 |
| kartikaditya | tjones: hi | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | #startmeeting cinder | 16:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 31 16:03:57 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:03 |
| winston-1 | kartikaditya: how was the nested group config stuff? | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | agenda is here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings | 16:04 |
| thingee | o/ | 16:04 |
| kartikaditya | winston-1: I'm sticking to single nesting | 16:04 |
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| jgriffith | Ok... let's roll | 16:04 |
| winston-1 | kartikaditya: k | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | #topic Havana feature freeze | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Havana feature freeze (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:04 | |
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| jgriffith | Just a reminder that we'll feature freeze August 21 | 16:05 |
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| jgriffith | We have talked in the past about having an earlier date for drivers | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | but I'm not sure what's in progress on that front TBH | 16:05 |
| * winston-1 gotta be quick to push QoS patch review... | 16:05 | |
| jgriffith | winston-1: I'm going to ask for help from folks on that and migration today | 16:06 |
| avishay | jgriffith: i thought i saw sept 4 somewhere? | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | winston-1: I'd like to give those two top priority | 16:06 |
| bswartz | is that date the cutoff for things to be accepted for the cutoff for things to be submitted? | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | avishay: you did | 16:06 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: that's the cut date for H3 | 16:06 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: but we institute a feature freeze prior to that so I keep my sanity | 16:06 |
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| avishay | jgriffith: fine fine...keep your sanity... | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | and so folks like myself, thingee and winston-1 can NOT spend 36 hours baby-sitting jenkins | 16:07 |
| winston-1 | jgriffith: yeah, we talked about that, just don't remember when~ | 16:07 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: we've talked about this at length, the rush of drop my patch and run at midnight the day before cut is madening | 16:07 |
| avishay | I am working on the attached migration case...need to step on the gas | 16:08 |
| avishay | jgriffith: i agree | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | winston-1: Think it was Grizzly 2 | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | So anyway... Just wanted to post a reminder to that so there are no big surprises | 16:08 |
| winston-1 | jgriffith: ah, must be. tough day it was | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | So, if you have BP's that you were planning to get to but haven't started... | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | PLEASE PLEASE take a look and re-evaluate how realistic it is that you'll hit August 21'st | 16:09 |
| avishay | jgriffith: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Havana_Release_Schedule | 16:09 |
| avishay | jgriffith: is sept 4 the deadline for merging? | 16:09 |
| avishay | jgriffith: and aug 21 for submitting? | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | avishay: yes | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | avishay: but that doesn't mean try tricks like submitting incomplete patches | 16:10 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: or wIP's | 16:10 |
| avishay | jgriffith: 2 weeks, very reasonable | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | and of coure as always there is an exception process | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | avishay: traditionally after the 3'rd milestone it's all about bug-fixes and docs | 16:11 |
| avishay | jgriffith: yes i know | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | K | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | any questions/thoughts on this? | 16:11 |
| avishay | jgriffith: nope, +1 | 16:11 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: sounds reasonable +1 | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | cool | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | #topic H3 blueprint updates | 16:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "H3 blueprint updates (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:12 | |
| jgriffith | https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/havana-3 | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | I've culled a few things out already based on lack of updates or communication | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | if your BP was one of them and you disagree give me a shout and we'll work it out | 16:13 |
| kmartin | anyone from Brocade in the meeting today? they thought they would have a patch to submit this Friday for the FC zone manager | 16:13 |
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| jgriffith | The items I'm most concerned about here are the DB changes | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | and I don't think there's anybody here to represent from Mirantis | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: do they have a BP? | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: I don't see one | 16:13 |
| skolathu | Hi, This is Santhosh from Brocade | 16:14 |
| kmartin | jgriffith: they did not sure where it is | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | skolathu: hey there... | 16:14 |
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| kmartin | skolathu: what happen to the BP that Varma entered | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | skolathu: any info regarding FC work from your side? | 16:14 |
| skolathu | To give you an update on the FC Zone Mgr BP, we are working on the framework and some of the testing is going on now | 16:14 |
| skolathu | We are hoping to share some of it with partners by next week before checking in the code.. | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | skolathu: Can you get a bp posted, and do you think you'll have it ready by August 21? | 16:15 |
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| skolathu | I'll sync up with Varma today and close on posting the BP. | 16:16 |
| kmartin | jgriffith: skolathu here it is: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/cinder-fc-zone-manager | 16:16 |
| thingee | jgriffith, skolathu: since I have no bp to reference. if it's just a framework and test, is there a point in rushing? | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: Ohhh ancient history :) | 16:16 |
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| skolathu | jgriffith: Aug 21 should be realistic. | 16:16 |
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| thingee | jgriffith, skolathu: to clarify, what's going ot take advantage of it at this point? | 16:16 |
| kmartin | skolathu: please update the BP with it's current status | 16:16 |
| skolathu | kmartin: Sure. Will do. | 16:17 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: IIRC it's more infra management as opposed to drivers using/consuming | 16:17 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: so getting rid of the current paradigm where everything is in the FC zone | 16:17 |
| kmartin | thingee: all FC drivers will get this for free | 16:18 |
| thingee | kmartin, jgriffith: got it | 16:18 |
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| jgriffith | cool cool | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | thingee: we'll kinda have to wait and see what it looks like :) | 16:19 |
| winston-1 | kmartin, skolathu will it be 5k+ code? ;) | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | anybody have anything on the netapp/nfs QoS BP? | 16:20 |
| avishay | jgriffith: i'm giving migration for attached volumes a big push for aug 21 - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/online-volume-migration | 16:20 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: work on that is under way now | 16:20 |
| skolathu | winston-1: It should be much lesser..:) | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: cool... can you add an assignee and update the bp please? | 16:20 |
| winston-1 | skolathu: good to know :) | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | avishay: if you get there we'll add it in | 16:20 |
| bswartz | sure | 16:21 |
| avishay | jgriffith: ok | 16:21 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: also the "Efficient image cloning" one needs a status update | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | It's listed as "Not Started" still | 16:21 |
| bswartz | doh | 16:21 |
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| jgriffith | Other than that it *looks* like most things are at least in progress | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | If you have a bp and you're not going to get to it let me know sooner, rather than later | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | #topic critical reviews | 16:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "critical reviews (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:24 | |
| jgriffith | So I mentioned there are a number of things I'd like to get through review today/tomorrow | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | 1. winston-1 's QoS patch | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | 2. avishay 's migration code | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | 3. the various DB patches | 16:25 |
| avishay | migration code? | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | 4. harlowja 's state machine code | 16:25 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: what? | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | avishay: DOH | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | that one's done | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | NM | 16:26 |
| avishay | jgriffith: :) | 16:26 |
| avishay | jgriffith: i thought maybe it got reverted or something...got scared for a second :) | 16:26 |
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| thingee | jgriffith: to finish winston-1's patch, we should probably talk about concerns with dict schema? | 16:26 |
| winston-1 | i thought avishay got 'attached' migration up. | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | thingee: good point | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | winston-1: he did... my bad | 16:27 |
| avishay | winston-1: i'm working on attached now...some issues with the nova code :-/ | 16:27 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: where was that thread/bug | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | thingee: I'm assuming you're referring to the scoping discussion of keys in the dict? | 16:28 |
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| thingee | jgriffith: it was a concern you just raised to me about the patch. | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | thingee: ohh... different topic | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | thingee: :) | 16:28 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: r/o attaching code? it close to get merge IMO. | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | So I put comments in a review but nobody else seemed to agree or have an opinion | 16:29 |
| * thingee checks the comments | 16:29 | |
| jgriffith | but in short IIRC I thought we had a discussion about QoS being a special case of extra-specs | 16:30 |
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| jgriffith | ie just a duplicated of extra-specs specifically for QoS settings | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | like: qos-specs | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | but it seemed that I may have been the only one who thought that :) | 16:30 |
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| jgriffith | I was mostly concerned about adding unused columns to the DB | 16:31 |
| winston-1 | jgriffith: so would you like 'qos_specs' to be in its own table? | 16:31 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: we want to use extra_specs for QoS stuff too | 16:31 |
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| avishay | bswartz: can you elaborate please? | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | winston-1: bswartz so I *thought* we were heading towards a qos-specs table | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | that could then be dynamic and used for rate-limiting, or backend IOP's as well as hypervisor | 16:32 |
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| bswartz | well if the works more or less the same (the new table) then we can use that -- in the short term we will be added qos based on extra-specs | 16:32 |
| winston-1 | jgriffith: there's no unused columns any more, just a brand new table for rate-limit; I can add another new table for qos specs, but I feel essentially it's identical to extra_specs | 16:32 |
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| jgriffith | winston-1: yeah, I saw you updated that I need to go back and look again to be honest | 16:33 |
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| jgriffith | winston-1: but yes, it would be an exact duplicate of extra-specs... which I know sounds silly but | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | winston-1: that would allow you to assign/re-assign qos-specs to types without messing with the other extra-specs info | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | winston-1: so it wouldn't impact things like filtering specifications, or backend-name etc | 16:34 |
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| jgriffith | winston-1: but like I said, maybe it was a dream that I had :) | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | it doesn't sound like anybody else had that impression... | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: around? | 16:34 |
| winston-1 | jgriffith: sorry don't get the last one. let's talk offline after meeting | 16:34 |
| winston-1 | yeah, where's DuncanT- | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | winston-1: sure... | 16:35 |
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| winston-1 | I missed DuncanT-'re review. | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | winston-1: so if folks like/prefer it I'm fine. Certainly won't block it | 16:35 |
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| jgriffith | One other item I didn't call out.. encryption | 16:36 |
| winston-1 | jgriffith: it'd be good if DuncanT- said something | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | The encryption patch has been twisting around for a bit, we should get some review time on it | 16:36 |
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| winston-1 | jgriffith: i'll spend some time on it, and harlowja's taskflow as well | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | whether you're in favor or not etc doesn't matter, should voice that in the review | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | winston-1: thanks... those are two difficult ones :) | 16:37 |
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| avishay | jgriffith: about the encryption... DuncanT- and I brought up similar points - there is no documentation with the high-level flow | 16:37 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: :) | 16:38 |
| avishay | jgriffith: and i won't even mention "where the *#$@ is key management" :) | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | avishay: sorry... missed your comment you didn't *vote* | 16:38 |
| bpb | avishay: We can try to get some into to you to help clarify the encryption flow | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | and I didn't look this morning to see DuncanT- had updated as well | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | Ok... so we're good, folks are looking at that. I was worried it was sitting idle | 16:39 |
| bpb | avishay: The key management patch that was in Nova has just been added to Cinder. We'd like some reviiew of that. | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: yes, I'm hoping the R/O patch lands this week (your version of it) | 16:39 |
| avishay | bpb: there needs to be a document showing all the flow with nova and cinder | 16:40 |
| thingee | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/39292/ | 16:40 |
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| avishay | bpb: without it it's like doing a puzzle without knowing what it's supposed to look like | 16:40 |
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| zhiyan | jgriffith: my next step is multiple-attaching change, do you think I need create a new bp for it? or just reuse existing bp(s). | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | thingee: thanks! | 16:41 |
| bpb | avishay: We'll try to provide that flow to you. BTW, the key management interface patch is here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30973/ | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | avishay: winston-1 did you catch the link thingee pointed out ^^ | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: we can re-use but need to get with current owner and work it out with them | 16:41 |
| thingee | bpb: is this still accurate? https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VolumeEncryption | 16:41 |
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| avishay | thingee: "Updated: 5 Feb 2013" | 16:42 |
| winston-1 | jgriffith: yup, got it | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | Ok... should we continue discussing encryption or move on? | 16:42 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: agreed, but in my case, seems owner have no plan to start work... | 16:43 |
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| jgriffith | and come back to it if time allows? | 16:43 |
| bpb | thingee: Yes, that's basically still accurate. There may be a few small updates. | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: I'll reassign it to you | 16:43 |
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| avishay | We can move on, please just more details on the encryption flows and I'll be happy to review. | 16:43 |
| thingee | jgriffith: move on. we know it has to be reviewed, and bpb is going to mkae updates. | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: kmartin https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/multi-attach-volume | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | Ok... last topic | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | #topic driver certification | 16:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "driver certification (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:44 | |
| thingee | bpb: once you've made updates, can you inform people in #openstack-cinder? | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | for reference: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-July/012557.html | 16:44 |
| bpb | thingee: Yes, I'll do that | 16:44 |
| winston-1 | exiting topic! | 16:44 |
| kmartin | griffith: we where held up with the VMware guys getting the nova side done, I can reach out to | 16:45 |
| avishay | bpb: please put a note in the review as well | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: I think zhiyan is saying he's willing to take that and has some code for it | 16:45 |
| bpb | avishay: Will do | 16:45 |
| kmartin | jgriffith: that's fine | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | Ok... so we'll do the driver cert | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | end topic | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | haha :) | 16:45 |
| avishay | bpb: thanks! | 16:45 |
| winston-1 | that's even faster than a +2 & approved. | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | winston-1: :) | 16:46 |
| avishay | :) | 16:46 |
| thingee | jgriffith: don't think anyone was opposed to the idea. | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | thingee: didn't seem like it, hemna was the only one who raised concerns | 16:46 |
| thingee | just some unknowns need to be discussed | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | anyway, I just wanted to mention it and talk about what I've started to do so far | 16:46 |
| * hemna is a trouble maker | 16:46 | |
| jgriffith | indeed he is | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | So to start we're talking really simple... | 16:47 |
| winston-1 | where's hemna ? | 16:47 |
| hemna | sleeping | 16:47 |
| hemna | :P | 16:47 |
| avishay | lurking :) | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | adding a directory: 'cinder/functional/cert_driver.py' | 16:47 |
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| jgriffith | This would assume a clean devstack install with your driver configured and ready for use | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | Then is simply runs tempest/api/volume/* tests | 16:48 |
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| jgriffith | From there we'll need to do some things like git show/status of the dirs to check what you actually ran | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | collect the log and .conf files | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | bundle it all up in to a tar-ball | 16:49 |
| hemna | we have a custom devstack local branch here that starts devstack, configures our drivers and restarts cinder. I suppose I could create another branch for running this test and taring up the results automatically. | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | hemna: the idea would be to NOT use customization with the exception of driver config | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | hemna: the point is that I'd like to see us run the same tests we require the cinder code to run in the gates without breaking because of driver-x | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | we can grow this and modify it over time depending on what does and doesn't work | 16:50 |
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| hemna | and by custom, it's our local.sh that just installs an image, public keys and configures our drivers and restarts cinder. | 16:50 |
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| avishay | jgriffith: add /etc/cinder/* to tarball? | 16:50 |
| avishay | jgriffith: actually no... | 16:50 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: the main interest is just /etc/cinder/cinder.conf I think | 16:51 |
| avishay | jgriffith: it might have IP/user/password in it | 16:51 |
| hemna | we'll have to do 2 runs, one for FC and iSCSI | 16:51 |
| hemna | and another for LeftHand I suppose as well. | 16:51 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: hemna yes and yes | 16:52 |
| hemna | avishay, our driver configs do include username password info... | 16:52 |
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| hartsocks | anything else there? | 17:19 |
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| hartsocks | Before I hand it to garyk's backports issues... | 17:20 |
| hartsocks | I've not moved https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1194018 | 17:20 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1194018 in nova "Can't use vmware distributed virtual switch with nova" [Undecided,New] | 17:20 |
| hartsocks | out of "New" because I don't understand it. | 17:20 |
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| hartsocks | Any guidance on this from garyk or danwent (who know networking better than I do)? | 17:21 |
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| danwent | no idea on my end | 17:21 |
| garyk | hartsocks: i have yet to look at that problem. | 17:22 |
| danwent | seems like tang may know something | 17:22 |
| danwent | we haven't been seeing it in any of our deployments, perhaps b/c we mainly use quantum | 17:22 |
| hartsocks | garyk: mind if I assign that to you then? (My plate is full) | 17:23 |
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| garyk | hartsocks: sure | 17:23 |
| garyk | my cup runeth over :) | 17:23 |
| hartsocks | *lol* | 17:23 |
| hartsocks | Okay. | 17:23 |
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| hartsocks | garyk I know you had a bug list to discuss | 17:24 |
| * hartsocks listens | 17:24 | |
| garyk | hartsocks: yeah. we backported nova/utils.py | 17:24 |
| garyk | hartsocks: sorry https://review.openstack.org/#/c/39036/ | 17:25 |
| danwent | garyk: yeah, i wouldn't wory about the networking issue for now. i'd leave it unassigned in case someone else wants to grab it | 17:25 |
| garyk | problem here is that the rpc versioning may be problematic. i am trying to understand what needs to be done to address this. | 17:25 |
| garyk | danwent: ok. | 17:25 |
| danwent | is that backport critical? | 17:26 |
| danwent | it seems like the right direction, but is something broken if we don't have it backported? may be better to just abandon if it is really tricky | 17:26 |
| hartsocks | When I looked at this (before backport) I noted the VMwareAPI change was trivial: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/39036/2/nova/virt/vmwareapi/vmops.py | 17:26 |
| garyk | danwent: i do not think that it is a critical bug. | 17:27 |
| hartsocks | I think that trivial-ness kind of puts it in the bucket of "nice to have" things. | 17:27 |
| danwent | if backport is a pain, I'd drop it then | 17:27 |
| garyk | danwent: ok, will do. | 17:28 |
| hartsocks | garyk: any thing else? | 17:28 |
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| garyk | nothing comes to mind at the moment | 17:28 |
| hartsocks | okay. | 17:28 |
| hartsocks | then... | 17:28 |
| hartsocks | #topic blueprints | 17:29 |
| danwent | we need to create a blueprint for the nova-side of the cinder work kartik is doing | 17:29 |
| tjones | yes - i will work on that friday | 17:29 |
| hartsocks | Okay... | 17:29 |
| tjones | he's already done all the work - looks like i can just reference it | 17:29 |
| hartsocks | #action tjones draft blueprint for nova-side cinder work | 17:29 |
| danwent | yeah, i think the blueprint can just point to his existing spec | 17:30 |
| garyk | tjones: i'd be happy to do the integration work with you if you want | 17:30 |
| hartsocks | tjones: thanks for picking that up | 17:30 |
| tjones | thanks gary - i'd appreciate the help | 17:30 |
| danwent | yeah, my sense is that there will likely be non-trivial testing work to be done as well | 17:30 |
| danwent | unit tests, etc. | 17:30 |
| danwent | as he termed his initial version a "proof-of-concept" | 17:30 |
| danwent | before we post this blueprint, we should make sure the cinder blueprint is accepted for H-3 | 17:31 |
| tjones | and for that we need the legal thing done | 17:31 |
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| danwent | no | 17:31 |
| hartsocks | okay, that answers one of my questions. | 17:31 |
| danwent | we just need the blueprint assigned to H-3 | 17:31 |
| danwent | which is just a matter of getting jgriffith to do that | 17:31 |
| tjones | jgriffith (i think) is waiting on the legal review | 17:32 |
| danwent | but its likely that nova would not accept the attach work for H-3 unless the cinder driver was already targeted. | 17:32 |
| hartsocks | jgriffith: you still hanging around? | 17:32 |
| tjones | his last comment was "Checked in with Kartik and things are pretty much set here, just awaiting review from legal team at VMware." | 17:32 |
| jgriffith | hartsocks: tjones I'm happy to target it | 17:32 |
| jgriffith | I'll do that no and assume everything will fall into place :) | 17:32 |
| danwent | jgriffith: thanks | 17:33 |
| tjones | jgriffith: thanks! | 17:33 |
| hartsocks | jgriffith: thanks for hanging around :-) | 17:33 |
| danwent | yeah, we just want an indication from the cinder team that they plan to accept this, so the nova team recognizes that the attach work also needs to lang in H-3. thanks. | 17:33 |
| danwent | lang -> land | 17:33 |
| hartsocks | So all this (new BP on nova-side too) should try and land inside H3? | 17:33 |
| jgriffith | all set | 17:33 |
| hartsocks | any thing else on this cross nova/cinder stuff? | 17:34 |
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| hartsocks | Anyone from Kiran's or Yaguang's teams hanging around? | 17:35 |
| danwent | jgriffith: much appreciated | 17:35 |
| yaguang | I am here :) | 17:35 |
| danwent | hartsocks: yes, as we want it to be included in the havana release | 17:35 |
| hartsocks | yaguang: hey :-) | 17:36 |
| hartsocks | yaguang: BTW did you know anything about https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1194018 ?? | 17:36 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1194018 in nova "Can't use vmware distributed virtual switch with nova" [Undecided,New] | 17:36 |
| hartsocks | (off topic) | 17:37 |
| yaguang | sorry, but I have not such a test environment to test this bug :( | 17:37 |
| hartsocks | yaguang: okay | 17:37 |
| yaguang | s/not/no | 17:37 |
| hartsocks | (on topic) | 17:37 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/improve-vmware-disk-usage | 17:37 |
| hartsocks | yaguang: are you still targeting H-3 for this? | 17:38 |
| yaguang | yes, I'd like someone to review this | 17:38 |
| hartsocks | When I see several −1's on a review, I tend to over-look it for the time being. | 17:39 |
| yaguang | from the comments, one concern is that the image cache policy is useless when using vcenter , this is what I am not sure | 17:40 |
| hartsocks | interesting point. | 17:40 |
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| hartsocks | IIRC: we don't act differently based on the image-cache policy… anywhere in the driver | 17:41 |
| garyk | hartsocks: i am sorry but i need to head on home. have a good evening guys | 17:42 |
| yaguang | I think as long as the instance files are stored in the datastore, it saves time to launch instnace | 17:42 |
| hartsocks | garyk: thanks for hanging around! :-) | 17:42 |
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| hartsocks | yaguang: yes… it's definitely a performance booster... | 17:43 |
| yaguang | the image cache policy benefits no matter we use vcenter or not, | 17:43 |
| hartsocks | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/37659/3/nova/virt/vmwareapi/vmops.py | 17:44 |
| hartsocks | … for the group ... | 17:44 |
| yaguang | as image files are cached in the datastores that also holds the instance files | 17:44 |
| * hartsocks thinking | 17:45 | |
| yaguang | I want your guys review and confirm this works well with both ESXI and vcenter driver | 17:45 |
| hartsocks | #action hartsocks todo functional review of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/37659 | 17:45 |
| hartsocks | I'll commit myself to spending some time with this then. | 17:46 |
| hartsocks | I don't know as this is a priority for most users though. | 17:46 |
| hartsocks | I think it would be better to do this right and let it slip past H-3 than to get it in sooner. | 17:47 |
| hartsocks | Does anyone disagree with that view on that? | 17:47 |
| * hartsocks listens | 17:48 | |
| hartsocks | yaguang: do you have any clients/customers after this feature? | 17:48 |
| yaguang | two core reviewers gives comments , both are about their concerns , Michael Still said Overall this looks good to me. | 17:48 |
| hartsocks | yaguang: okay, so this is further along than I thought. | 17:49 |
| hartsocks | yaguang: sounds like H-3 is pretty realistic provided I can get you a full review | 17:50 |
| yaguang | not yet, I hope if anyone from vmware can have a test on this | 17:50 |
| yaguang | to have a practical experience of the benefits of this feature | 17:51 |
| hartsocks | okay. | 17:51 |
| hartsocks | anything else here on this BP? | 17:51 |
| yaguang | hartsocks, thanks a lot | 17:51 |
| hartsocks | is Kiran around? | 17:52 |
| * hartsocks listens | 17:52 | |
| yaguang | when testing using the code, I fails to attach the second disk to instance | 17:52 |
| hartsocks | kirankv: ping | 17:53 |
| yaguang | one is root disk which can be attached, the second ephemeral disk aways fails to attach | 17:53 |
| hartsocks | yaguang: yeah, that's a whole "epic" | 17:54 |
| yaguang | I can't figure out what's wrong , it's caused by wrong API call or parameters error | 17:54 |
| hartsocks | yaguang: your patch is intended as a fix to that right? So I'll spend some time with it (Next Tuesday likely) and see if I can't spot how to make it work. | 17:55 |
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| yaguang | all other features are works as expected | 17:55 |
| hartsocks | yaguang: I'll email you on what I find. | 17:55 |
| yaguang | ok , thanks :) | 17:56 |
| tjones | yaguang: what's the error ? do you happen to remember it? | 17:56 |
| hartsocks | yaguang: tjones is our resident vmdk expert :-) | 17:56 |
| tjones | or PM me if you like and we can move on | 17:56 |
| tjones | ;-) | 17:56 |
| hartsocks | BTW: '/'msg username to do a PM | 17:57 |
| hartsocks | without the quotes | 17:57 |
| yaguang | the error message is something like a common error acours , parameter error | 17:57 |
| yaguang | when call reconfigure to add a disk | 17:57 |
| hartsocks | yaguang: tjones: my expectation is this is that inventory issue where the driver doesn't respect the tree-nature of vCenter's inventory. | 17:58 |
| hartsocks | but I'll need to run it to see. | 17:58 |
| tjones | hartsocks: ah - i see just wondering if it's the same sort of param issue i have seen before | 17:58 |
| yaguang | hartsocks, I am not using vcenter just ESXi 5.0 | 17:58 |
| hartsocks | yaguang: tjones: I may be looking for nails :-) | 17:59 |
| hartsocks | yaguang: tjones: that is I see so many problems tied to that. | 17:59 |
| hartsocks | yaguang: tjones: let's table this and I'll email you both on a thread based on what I find. | 18:00 |
| hartsocks | we're out of time. | 18:00 |
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| hartsocks | The room at #openstack-vmware is open for off-the-record discussions any time. | 18:00 |
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| hartsocks | #endmeeting | 18:01 |
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| hartsocks | #startmeeting test | 18:49 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 31 18:49:28 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hartsocks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:49 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: test)" | 18:49 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'test' | 18:49 |
| hartsocks | #endmeeting test | 18:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "driver certification (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 18:49 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 31 18:49:38 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:49 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/test/2013/test.2013-07-31-18.49.html | 18:49 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/test/2013/test.2013-07-31-18.49.txt | 18:49 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/test/2013/test.2013-07-31-18.49.log.html | 18:49 |
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| shardy | #startmeeting heat | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 31 20:00:45 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is shardy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 20:00 |
| shardy | #topic rollcall | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| shardy | Hi, who's around? | 20:01 |
| bgorski | Hi all | 20:01 |
| tspatzier | hi | 20:01 |
| jasond | here | 20:01 |
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| timductive | Hello | 20:01 |
| *** fungi sets mode: -o fungi | 20:01 | |
| zaneb | I'm awake | 20:01 |
| kebray | o/ present | 20:01 |
| stevebaker | hi | 20:01 |
| jpeeler | hey | 20:01 |
| topol | hi | 20:01 |
| asalkeld | o/ | 20:01 |
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| randallburt | hi all | 20:02 |
| shardy | sdake, therve around? | 20:02 |
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| shardy | Ok lets get started | 20:02 |
| shardy | #topic Review last week's actions | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review last week's actions (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:02 | |
| shardy | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-07-24-20.00.html | 20:03 |
| jgriffith | #endmeeting | 20:03 |
| mrutkows | o/ | 20:03 |
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| shardy | #info shardy to send mission ML statement | 20:03 |
| shardy | I didn't actually do that.. | 20:03 |
| sdake | hi | 20:03 |
| shardy | #action shardy to send mission ML statement | 20:03 |
| shardy | #info randallburt resource catalog bp grooming | 20:03 |
| shardy | randallburt: did that happen? | 20:03 |
| randallburt | Resource blueprints per last weeks meeting: | 20:03 |
| randallburt | Already in the pipe: | 20:03 |
| randallburt | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/resource-properties-schema | 20:03 |
| randallburt | New based on meeting minutes: | 20:03 |
| randallburt | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/resource-support-status | 20:03 |
| randallburt | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/filter-resources-by-support | 20:03 |
| randallburt | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/default-resource | 20:03 |
| randallburt | Let me know if I've missed anything. The new ones are targeted at heat-next, so there's room for discussion clarification and/or breaking down into smaller chunks | 20:03 |
| randallburt | yup | 20:03 |
| shardy | lol, pastebomb ;) | 20:04 |
| zaneb | btw all I added my competing mission statement proposal to the etherpad | 20:04 |
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| randallburt | I was ready ;) | 20:04 |
| zaneb | which I no longer remember the url of | 20:04 |
| shardy | thanks randallburt | 20:04 |
| randallburt | np | 20:04 |
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| radix | d'oh, here | 20:04 |
| shardy | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/heat-mission | 20:04 |
| shardy | If anyone else has input to the mission pls add there and I'll try to combine and send something to the ML | 20:05 |
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| shardy | anything else from anyone from last weeks meeting? | 20:05 |
| topol | what is "symbol manipulation"??? | 20:05 |
| zaneb | topol: symbol manipulation is programming | 20:06 |
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| shardy | zaneb: I think that's a bit abstract for a mission statement, but I like the second part | 20:07 |
| radix | so then "To harness the tools of programming"? | 20:07 |
| topol | +1 on being a little too abstract | 20:07 |
| topol | what was wrong with the first mission statement??? | 20:07 |
| sdake | ya a bit abstract | 20:07 |
| shardy | topol: everybody hadn't had their 2c's, clearly ;) | 20:08 |
| sdake | mission statement should be direct and in your face | 20:08 |
| zaneb | so, I said "symbol manipulation" because I want to include stuff like the Heat Horizon stuff that's being worked on | 20:08 |
| randallburt | IMO its got to have the word orchestration in it. The first one seems more direct, IMO. | 20:08 |
| asalkeld | serious bikeshedding | 20:08 |
| zaneb | i.e. visual symbol manipulation | 20:08 |
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| topol | randallburt +1 | 20:08 |
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| randallburt | Lets not get fancy and just call it like it is. | 20:08 |
| shardy | zaneb: that's part of Horizon's mission, it just happens to be contributed by those interested in Heat | 20:08 |
| zaneb | that's true, but we want Heat to be a tool that supports that | 20:09 |
| shardy | Lets move on, please add etherpad comments and I'll try to distil tomorrow | 20:09 |
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| shardy | #topic h3 blueprint prioritization | 20:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "h3 blueprint prioritization (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:09 | |
| shardy | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/havana-3 | 20:09 |
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| shardy | So I've been trying to defer some stuff as we had 37 pending bps for h3 | 20:10 |
| shardy | but we still have 30, and we only delivered 8 for h2 | 20:10 |
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| sdake | h3 = superman time | 20:10 |
| shardy | we have about a month before feature freeze, and need time to review stuff | 20:10 |
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| shardy | so if your BP is not going to land in the next 3 weeks, please tell me and/or defer it | 20:11 |
| shardy | This plan has already been called crazy unrealistic by ttx, so we probably need to bump and deprioritize quite a lot of stuff | 20:11 |
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| stevebaker | I remain unrealistically optimistic! | 20:12 |
| zaneb | lol | 20:12 |
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| radix | are all 30 of them assigned? | 20:12 |
| radix | I guess so | 20:12 |
| sdake | lol stevebaker | 20:12 |
| topol | thats a lot of symbolic manipulation left to go | 20:12 |
| randallburt | lol! | 20:13 |
| shardy | Ok, well I won't go through it all now, but also please make sure the Implementation is set, if stuff is "Not Started", I'm gonna start bumping to heat-future | 20:13 |
| shardy | Any comments or questions on H3 or the release schedule? | 20:13 |
| * radix changes his to Good Progress, hopefully that's accurate :) | 20:13 | |
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| shardy | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Havana_Release_Schedule | 20:14 |
| stevebaker | shouldn't multiple-engines be marked as started and assigned to !asalkeld | 20:14 |
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| asalkeld | someone else has started on it | 20:15 |
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| randallburt | jasond: is looking into it | 20:15 |
| shardy | who's taken that, was it jasond? | 20:15 |
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| shardy | Ok, I'll reassign | 20:15 |
| asalkeld | (cool by me) | 20:15 |
| asalkeld | I'll jump in and help as soon as I am done with this monitoring stuff | 20:16 |
| sdake | perhaps we should jsut remove multiple engines from h3 | 20:16 |
| sdake | and focus on that for all of I | 20:16 |
| stevebaker | it is being worked on | 20:16 |
| jasond | asalkeld: cool, i'm keeping notes on my progress here http://dunsmor.com/heat/multi-engine.html | 20:17 |
| sdake | ok | 20:17 |
| shardy | Ok, cool, well lets move anything which looks at all unlikely to heat-future, better to pull them back into the plan than to defer everything late ;) | 20:17 |
| randallburt | not a horrible idea, though I think there's progress to be made in the next few weeks | 20:17 |
| asalkeld | agree | 20:17 |
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| asalkeld | lets do what we can | 20:17 |
| randallburt | agreed | 20:17 |
| sdake | asalkeld had a good idea for mvoing everything into the api and getting rid of the engine, think that makes sense for i :) | 20:17 |
| randallburt | we can "reduce" scope and have new, focused tasks for I | 20:17 |
| shardy | Yeah, moving target, we can defer and raise smaller sub-bp's if needed | 20:18 |
| zaneb | sdake: I don't agree, I bet nova wishes they had our architecture right now | 20:18 |
| randallburt | you know, we could just make everything a celery task and… | 20:19 |
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| * randallburt ducks | 20:19 | |
| sdake | more deps ugh | 20:19 |
| shardy | randallburt: nooo! ;) | 20:19 |
| shardy | anyway, onwards.. | 20:19 |
| shardy | #topic Removal/moving of heat-boto/heat-cfn/heat-watch client tools | 20:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Removal/moving of heat-boto/heat-cfn/heat-watch client tools (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:19 | |
| sdake | so missed last weeks meeting | 20:19 |
| sdake | my apologies | 20:19 |
| sdake | i think we are sorted here with stevebaker and I | 20:19 |
| sdake | plan is to move everything into heat-cli | 20:20 |
| shardy | sdake: we did discuss this, but I wanted to make sure we've agreeed a way forward | 20:20 |
| sdake | and not package the boto/etc | 20:20 |
| sdake | as long as boto/heat-cfntools/heat-watch are not the only things in a repo, wea re good to go | 20:20 |
| asalkeld | are we putting it into stackforge | 20:20 |
| sdake | ya stackforge ++ | 20:20 |
| asalkeld | and what else is going to be in the repo | 20:20 |
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| sdake | if its in stackforge I have no objections re packaging | 20:21 |
| asalkeld | ok | 20:21 |
| stevebaker | yes, stackforge. I need to refresh the review | 20:21 |
| shardy | Ok, but all that's going to be in there is heat-boto? | 20:21 |
| sdake | heat-watch, heat-cfn | 20:21 |
| shardy | as we were going to remove heat-cfn, based on discussion last week | 20:21 |
| sdake | i see | 20:21 |
| stevebaker | yes, eventually, it is just a code move as the first step | 20:21 |
| shardy | heat-watch will die after CM integration finished | 20:21 |
| randallburt | posterity? | 20:21 |
| shardy | heat-boto can replace heat-cfn (it's actually the same code) | 20:22 |
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| randallburt | ah | 20:22 |
| shardy | so do we need a new repo for one CLI tool? | 20:22 |
| shardy | can't it just stay in master, e.g in tools? | 20:22 |
| asalkeld | README: unmaintained dev tools | 20:22 |
| sdake | master in tools wfm too | 20:22 |
| stevebaker | *sigh* | 20:22 |
| jpeeler | +1 | 20:22 |
| shardy | Seems easier than new repo, stackforge etc | 20:23 |
| sdake | feels like a alot of wasted work for stevebaker tho | 20:23 |
| * sdake sorry stevebaker for suggesting it in the first place | 20:23 | |
| shardy | stevebaker: what's your objection? | 20:23 |
| asalkeld | (he is busy head slamming) | 20:24 |
| stevebaker | Its all done, I'm happy to do a python release. | 20:24 |
| shardy | lol | 20:24 |
| sdake | asalkeld hopefully just face palming :) | 20:24 |
| asalkeld | yeah:) | 20:24 |
| kebray | this may be a dumb question, but what does Boto do that Heat doesn't already do or have included in its own CLI/API? | 20:24 |
| shardy | stevebaker: I'm just not sure who will use it, we should encourage people to use the one-true python-heatclient | 20:24 |
| sdake | kebray apparently it has high quality debugging functionality :) | 20:25 |
| shardy | kebray: nothing | 20:25 |
| asalkeld | (it is maintained) | 20:25 |
| shardy | but it is a useful dev/debug tool for the CFN compatible API | 20:25 |
| kebray | Heat isn't maintained? How many of us are here in IRC? | 20:25 |
| asalkeld | we don't want to maintain that code | 20:25 |
| shardy | it's of no use to end users at all | 20:25 |
| stevebaker | only heat core developers will use it likely - I really don't see the problem with a new repo | 20:25 |
| asalkeld | (just the aws client) | 20:25 |
| randallburt | and boto should just work. why maintain two implementations of the same thing | 20:25 |
| sdake | new repo is preferrable - get it out of the code base that gets packaged | 20:26 |
| shardy | If only heat core developers will use it, surely it's more convenient to leave it in master? | 20:26 |
| shardy | sdake: It can be in the tarball/master and not get packaged | 20:26 |
| zaneb | kebray: it's meaningless to say we can write a client that works with our own cfn-compatible api. we want it to actually be compatible | 20:26 |
| sdake | like I said, master tools not packaged wfm too | 20:26 |
| stevebaker | they have zero test coverage. having it in the core repo is a form of endorsement that they should be consumed by users | 20:26 |
| kebray | zaneb: but, "our" client could also interact with CFN, thereby showing it is compatible. | 20:26 |
| asalkeld | I think we spent way too much time deliberating | 20:27 |
| kebray | one client.. why two? | 20:27 |
| sdake | why not three? | 20:27 |
| sdake | ;) | 20:27 |
| kebray | anyway.. I am probably missing context.. I can take this to the main heat channel. | 20:27 |
| shardy | kebray: one client talks to heat-api (python-heatclient), one talks to heat-api-cfn (heat-boto) | 20:27 |
| zaneb | kebray: but it never has, and why would we invest time in doing that when boto exists? | 20:27 |
| shardy | boto has six *million* downloads from pypi: | 20:28 |
| shardy | why would we reinvent our own AWS client lib? | 20:28 |
| kebray | ah… ok, context cleared. makes sense now. | 20:28 |
| shardy | Ok, lets move on | 20:29 |
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| shardy | #topic Reorganize heat-templates repo into per-distro directories for F17/F18/F19/U12/RHEL | 20:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reorganize heat-templates repo into per-distro directories for F17/F18/F19/U12/RHEL (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:29 | |
| sdake | yes | 20:29 |
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| randallburt | sounds good to me | 20:29 |
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| sdake | so right now our tempaltes don't work on f18-f19 | 20:29 |
| sdake | and templates don't work cross distro | 20:30 |
| sdake | so make a top level distro dir in the cfn dir | 20:30 |
| sdake | and put the templates in the correct dirs | 20:30 |
| shardy | Sounds reasonable, but could end up being a lot more maintenance overhead | 20:30 |
| sdake | and work to update our tempaltes | 20:30 |
| shardy | considering we can't/don't really maintain what we have all that well.. | 20:30 |
| sdake | well we aren't maintaining them at all now | 20:30 |
| asalkeld | at somepoint our hot templates should be distro agnostic | 20:30 |
| sdake | this would force that | 20:30 |
| stevebaker | it seems that there is a good case for reorganising by heat release (grizzly, havana...) | 20:30 |
| sdake | asalkeld at that point we could revisit this decision | 20:30 |
| kebray | Isn't the goal to soon get to cross-distro templates? | 20:31 |
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| randallburt | asalkeld: well, they *could* be written that way. I hope we don't lose flexibly in that regard. | 20:31 |
| shardy | sdake: the templates shouldn't change between releases (the CFN ones at least..)? | 20:31 |
| asalkeld | I think we need to seperate out the guest config somehow | 20:31 |
| sdake | f18 for example adds some firewalld stuff | 20:31 |
| randallburt | kebray: sure, but not *all* templates have to be cross distro. For some that's not even desireable | 20:31 |
| sdake | this means all our f17 templates dont' work on f18/f19 | 20:31 |
| sdake | they dont' work on rhel, even though rhel is an image type | 20:31 |
| sdake | etc | 20:31 |
| sdake | they are just generally poorly maintained | 20:32 |
| sdake | maybe that is an orthognal discussion :) | 20:32 |
| shardy | sdake: one alternative would be to do better at keeping them working on latest-stable of e.g Fedora | 20:32 |
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| sdake | yes but we have hard time tracking which ones we have sorted on the latest distro vs those that dont | 20:32 |
| sdake | whereas with dirs, if its in the f19 dir, its been tested | 20:32 |
| shardy | sdake: if they are generally poorly maintained, how will adding more help? | 20:32 |
| asalkeld | (I think it's a good plan, but we should try to make them more portable too) | 20:33 |
| sdake | the f17 templates were miantined well | 20:33 |
| sdake | but we never went back and ported them to f18/f19 | 20:33 |
| sdake | we need to do that | 20:33 |
| shardy | Ok, well we can try it and see how it works out I guess :) | 20:33 |
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| sdake | the only thing that brought this up is I have been putting the distro in templates I write | 20:34 |
| sdake | in the filename | 20:34 |
| sdake | to help indicate what it works on | 20:34 |
| sdake | directory makes more sense | 20:34 |
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| zaneb | +1 for trying that | 20:35 |
| sdake | for trying which? | 20:35 |
| asalkeld | maybe impl. zanes Fn::File idea to be able to put userdata/metadata | 20:35 |
| asalkeld | in different files | 20:35 |
| asalkeld | so the main template is portable | 20:35 |
| shardy | sdake: well lets try it for the cfn example templates, and aim to have the HOT templates more portable via the software config abstraction discussed in software-configuration-provider | 20:35 |
| sdake | wfm | 20:35 |
| asalkeld | +1 | 20:36 |
| zaneb | trying the different directories | 20:36 |
| sdake | we can always revisit when hot goes live | 20:36 |
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| shardy | Ok, cool, any other comments on this or shall we move on? | 20:36 |
| asalkeld | on and up | 20:36 |
| stevebaker | I still think the top level directory of heat-templates should relate to the audience of who will be using | 20:36 |
| sdake | i'll work out the move patch | 20:36 |
| sdake | stevebaker could you expand? You mean havana/griz/etc? | 20:37 |
| stevebaker | as in demonstration of features (wordpress 10 ways...), production templates for specific apps, templates for testing only... | 20:37 |
| sdake | atm I think we would end up with demo templates only atm :) | 20:38 |
| shardy | stevebaker: The problem with that is then we're not just providing examples, but people will expect "production ready" application templates | 20:38 |
| sdake | but seems like a good idea to me | 20:38 |
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| shardy | heat-core don't want that responsibility IMO | 20:38 |
| shardy | but others interested in that could contribute to heat-templates I guess | 20:39 |
| sdake | shardy agree - should be community responsibility | 20:39 |
| stevebaker | anything flagged as a production template will be adopted by someone to keep it that way | 20:39 |
| randallburt | I think we should be pretty explicit that we're providing examples of features, not something one hangs their hats on | 20:39 |
| sdake | I have read several blogs people want to build businesses just making templates | 20:39 |
| shardy | which I think is what we discussed when we separated the templates into their own repo | 20:39 |
| randallburt | they should *work* sure, but not have to be bullet proof examples of how to deploy wordpress | 20:39 |
| sdake | i think our examples should all work well | 20:40 |
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| shardy | stevebaker: So we'd need process to align templates with maintainers etc | 20:40 |
| sdake | and wordpress seems like a simple app to deal with | 20:40 |
| kebray | randallburt: I disagree… there should be at least a couple templates the Heat dev team guarantees work, and has real world value… more than just demonstration. | 20:40 |
| randallburt | for a very mangaged definition of "well" | 20:40 |
| shardy | long term, good plan, short term too much effort IMHO | 20:40 |
| randallburt | shardy: agreed. | 20:40 |
| topol | is there a contrib directory where folks can contribute production templates or other templates? | 20:40 |
| kebray | At least for the short term… to help adoption. | 20:40 |
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| shardy | topol: that has been discussed but not yet | 20:40 |
| sdake | topol they can just do a review request for the cfn dir | 20:40 |
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| kebray | We need to build an ecosystem… not just a tool. | 20:41 |
| topol | kebray +1 | 20:41 |
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| shardy | we could add one, and put a README in there saying they're community maintained | 20:41 |
| asalkeld | yea | 20:41 |
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| randallburt | but we still need to be diligent then on stuff that stops being maintained. othewise #heat gets flooded with support requests for templates that don't have anyone riding herd on them | 20:42 |
| shardy | randallburt: That is basically my worry too | 20:42 |
| kebray | randallburt: agreed… the list should be small. | 20:42 |
| shardy | Anyway, shall we move on and follow up on the ML? | 20:43 |
| stevebaker | yep | 20:43 |
| shardy | #topci Open Discussion | 20:43 |
| randallburt | sounds good | 20:43 |
| zaneb | topci? | 20:43 |
| shardy | #topic Open Discussion | 20:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:43 | |
| shardy | zaneb: fat fingers ;) | 20:43 |
| stevebaker | anything for me? I need to go do the school run | 20:43 |
| sdake | jasond had a complaint about the cloudinit-write-files bp | 20:43 |
| shardy | sdake: complaint? | 20:44 |
| shardy | stevebaker: o/ | 20:44 |
| sdake | apparently write-files doesn't work with cloudinit0.6 | 20:44 |
| kebray | Topic: removal of AWS stuff… I know HOT solves a lot of that.. but, I think there's still a reference to AWS in the UserData section with heat-cfn… no? | 20:44 |
| jasond | it depends on cloud-init 0.7 now, which broke the cloud server resource | 20:44 |
| jasond | so are we officially discontinuing support for cloud-init 0.6? | 20:44 |
| stevebaker | does that mean ubuntu is broken too? | 20:44 |
| randallburt | kebray: which should remain for compatability unless/until native tooling gets sorted (IMO) | 20:44 |
| jasond | stevebaker: yes | 20:44 |
| shardy | sdake: hmm, so which distro's is that a problem for? | 20:44 |
| sdake | ya u12.04 broke | 20:44 |
| stevebaker | ouch | 20:44 |
| sdake | rhel6.4 | 20:44 |
| sdake | f17 | 20:44 |
| jasond | CentOS 6.4 | 20:45 |
| stevebaker | hmm, might have to back that out | 20:45 |
| zaneb | nothing important then :D | 20:45 |
| shardy | No RHEL 6.4 is 0.7.1 | 20:45 |
| sdake | ya I tend to agree re backout | 20:45 |
| jasond | shardy: not the package in EPEL | 20:45 |
| sdake | although I like the change, perhaps an optional feature | 20:45 |
| shardy | F18+ is 0.7.2, F17 is nearly EOL (or is?) | 20:45 |
| sdake | f17 is eol | 20:45 |
| shardy | jasond: It's in RHEL common for RHEL 6 | 20:45 |
| randallburt | agreed, its a good change, just breaks with some older but still "supported" distros | 20:45 |
| jasond | shardy: i'll check | 20:46 |
| shardy | jasond: So in theory should be removed from EPEL at some point | 20:46 |
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| sdake | so question I think this centers around , is what is the lowest level of cloudinit we intend to marry ourselves to with heat for grizzly | 20:47 |
| shardy | sdake: s/grizzly/havana? | 20:48 |
| randallburt | havana? or was this going to be back ported? | 20:48 |
| sdake | sorry havana | 20:48 |
| sdake | brain damage :) | 20:48 |
| shardy | If so then I say 0.7.2 | 20:48 |
| shardy | F18+ and RHEL 6.5+, not sure about Ubuntu, we'll need to check | 20:48 |
| sdake | this makes ubuntu 12.04 non-functional | 20:48 |
| shardy | sdake: even with the cloud-archives repos? | 20:49 |
| sdake | not sure about cloud-archives repo | 20:49 |
| shardy | Ok, well we can follow up and investigate I guess | 20:49 |
| jasond | i don't see it http://ubuntu-cloud.archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/pool/main/c/ | 20:50 |
| shardy | there were several fixes which we need related to metadata retrieval, which means 0.7.2 works and 0.7.1 in some cases doesn't | 20:50 |
| sdake | well if it should be reverted, can you file a bug shardy and assign to me | 20:50 |
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| shardy | Ok, yeah jasond pls raise a bug with details and we'll work out what to do | 20:51 |
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| shardy | anyone have anything else? | 20:51 |
| jasond | shardy: will do | 20:51 |
| bgorski | I have aquestion about bp with multi region support | 20:52 |
| shardy | bgorski: ok | 20:52 |
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| bgorski | I updated the wiki page accordingly with the ML discussion | 20:53 |
| bgorski_ | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/Blueprints/Multi_Region_Support_for_Heat | 20:53 |
| bgorski | And one big problem I see right now is that the only way right now to pass template for nested stack is by url | 20:54 |
| zaneb | bgorski: I replied to your ML post already | 20:55 |
| zaneb | short version: you are SOL | 20:55 |
| zaneb | sorry :( | 20:55 |
| zaneb | randallburt: is one of the blueprints floating around covering the {"File": ...} feature? | 20:56 |
| randallburt | zaneb: not to my knowlege | 20:56 |
| zaneb | maybe that needs to be number 31 | 20:56 |
| randallburt | IIRC it was discussed on the ML, but not bp afaik | 20:56 |
| randallburt | asalkeld? | 20:57 |
| asalkeld | hello | 20:57 |
| shardy | Files section of environment? | 20:57 |
| randallburt | IIRC, you're working on template upload? | 20:57 |
| randallburt | is that what we mean or something different? | 20:57 |
| asalkeld | well it's not a part of the env really | 20:57 |
| stevebaker | back | 20:57 |
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| asalkeld | but we need the client to read the template | 20:58 |
| asalkeld | and slurp the File's | 20:58 |
| shardy | I think this is a deployer problem, not a heat problem | 20:58 |
| shardy | provide a template repo with http access, sorted..? | 20:58 |
| randallburt | there are a couple of bps for that | 20:59 |
| zaneb | shardy: that's a weak answer | 20:59 |
| shardy | anyway probably can't discuss it in 2mins, so we can follow up on the ML | 20:59 |
| randallburt | somewhat controversial, but they're out there | 20:59 |
| asalkeld | shardy, this would help with Metadata: {Fn::File: {Ref: Distro}} | 20:59 |
| shardy | zaneb: maybe, but we don't, IMHO want Heat to become a general-purpose template store | 20:59 |
| bgorski | we can continue on ML | 20:59 |
| zaneb | shardy: totally agree, we should not be storing them | 20:59 |
| shardy | thanks all | 20:59 |
| shardy | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "driver certification (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 31 21:00:00 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-07-31-20.00.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-07-31-20.00.txt | 21:00 |
| bgorski | thx | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-07-31-20.00.log.html | 21:00 |
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| jd__ | #startmeeting ceilometer | 21:02 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 31 21:02:34 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jd__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:02 |
| dragondm | \o | 21:02 |
| apmelton | o/ | 21:02 |
| eglynn | o/ | 21:02 |
| terriyu | o/ | 21:02 |
| mrutkows | o/ | 21:02 |
| nealph | o/ | 21:02 |
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| topol | o/ | 21:03 |
| jd__ | hello everybody | 21:03 |
| gordc | o/ | 21:03 |
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| jd__ | #topic dhellmann to set up a vote in place for #openstack-metering logging | 21:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "dhellmann to set up a vote in place for #openstack-metering logging (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:04 | |
| asalkeld | o/ | 21:04 |
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| sandywalsh | o/ | 21:04 |
| litong | o/ | 21:04 |
| jd__ | this has been done by dhellmann today | 21:04 |
| dhellmann | I set up an online vote and included all of the core team members as voters | 21:04 |
| thomasm | o/ | 21:04 |
| dhellmann | let me know if you didn't get the email with the link to your ballot | 21:04 |
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| * jd__ got it | 21:04 | |
| * gordc got it | 21:05 | |
| jd__ | #topic dhellmann to setup a repository for pycadf | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "dhellmann to setup a repository for pycadf (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:05 | |
| asalkeld | I even voted yes | 21:05 |
| jd__ | asalkeld: :-) | 21:05 |
| gordc | thanks jd__, dhellmann for setting this up | 21:05 |
| dhellmann | jd__ started that, and I added some stuff based on feedback from jeblair | 21:05 |
| gordc | i don't think we'll have any issues on this | 21:05 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/39225/ | 21:05 |
| mrutkows | jd__, dhellmann, +1 thanks both | 21:06 |
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| jd__ | all good then :) | 21:06 |
| dhellmann | he did ask to make sure we wanted it under "stackforge" and not "openstack" and I gave him some of the background | 21:06 |
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| gordc | we're letting the lawyers know about stackforge but they said it shouldn't be a huge issue after we explained it to them | 21:07 |
| jd__ | good lawyers | 21:07 |
| gordc | :) | 21:07 |
| mrutkows | dhellmann, have been working to expedite this with legal | 21:07 |
| jd__ | #topic close on audit middleware/pycadf direction (where/when to use CADF) - gordc | 21:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "close on audit middleware/pycadf direction (where/when to use CADF) - gordc (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:07 | |
| dhellmann | good | 21:07 |
| topol | they just asked for gordc's first born son. no biggie | 21:08 |
| jd__ | I think this kind of the same topic | 21:08 |
| jd__ | topol: business as usual. | 21:08 |
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| gordc | yep. kind of an expansion | 21:08 |
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| gordc | just an update/checkpoint to audit middleware item (https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/support-standard-audit-formats) | 21:08 |
| gordc | we're branching out cadf data model to pycadf (thanks again dhellmann, jd__) but we still have to decide where/when to use CADF in ceilometer (or if we want a pluggable interface to work with other standards in future?) | 21:08 |
| jd__ | yeah we've been discussing it a bit with dhellmann | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | I have pretty strong reservations against using multiple message, and therefore storage, formats | 21:09 |
| gordc | realize it was just a few hours ago we discussed this but we had a good discussion and i wanted to answer any lingering questions/concerns we might have. ie. what goes into CADF and what stays in ceilometer | 21:09 |
| gordc | mrutkows is resident expert on CADF/audit and topol is around if you have questions on how we use audit with our banking clients | 21:09 |
| sandywalsh | I still think middleware is the wrong place for generating this. It should be translating existing notifications ... not making new/competing ones. | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | (as would be implied by making it "pluggable") | 21:09 |
| gordc | so yeah, they're here if you want a more detailed picture of audit rather than the x percent i know. | 21:09 |
| jd__ | I think for now having pycadf is a really good start anyway; where we plug the stuff is something we need to discuss | 21:09 |
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| dhellmann | I don't object to CADF, per se, but it feels like the CADF section of the notification is going to have redundant data in it (user and resource info) | 21:10 |
| jd__ | so CADF is about a data model, but doesn't really care about the format IIUC? it just needs some precise fields? | 21:10 |
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| dhellmann | sure, when I say "format" I mean "schema" or "model" or whatever -- I realize it's not XML or JSON or whatever | 21:11 |
| mrutkows | if audit data needs to be signed and complete according to any spec. or std. it needs to be in that format from the start | 21:11 |
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| jd__ | dhellmann: yeah that's why I'm thinking having notification directly emitted in CADF might be a better idea | 21:11 |
| sandywalsh | agreed ... cadf is fine, definitely a market need, but the implementation shouldn't get in the way of the existing "openstack way" of using notifications | 21:11 |
| dhellmann | right, sandywalsh, that's my point | 21:11 |
| dragondm | yup | 21:11 |
| topol | how is it getting in the way? | 21:12 |
| sandywalsh | it breaks DRY | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | mrutkows: if it's the same data, the "schema" for the data shouldn't matter to the signature, right? as long as the method of generating the signature is the same | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | so far, notifications are fairly lightweight | 21:12 |
| sandywalsh | we have two places where notifications/events are being created ... competing sources | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | there's some wrapper info about the resource and event, and then a "metadata bag" for other stuff | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | cadf is some of that data repeated, but a cadf message would not conform to the notification spec, so we would have to repeat the fields | 21:13 |
| dhellmann | does someone have the link to that blueprint handy? | 21:13 |
| gordc | sandywalsh, was wondering what we're doing currently? it seems notifications are a dump/grab bag of possibly required data. | 21:13 |
| mrutkows | dhellmann, if you start with another format at time of creation and sign it you cant reformat it and resign it later, it voids audit | 21:13 |
| dhellmann | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/support-standard-audit-formats | 21:13 |
| mrutkows | even if the schema is mappable | 21:13 |
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| dhellmann | mrutkows: why would it need to be resigned? | 21:14 |
| sandywalsh | gordc, to an extent that's true. An event should gather as much context around the event as possible. | 21:14 |
| dhellmann | that is, the signature should be about the data, not about the schema | 21:14 |
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| sandywalsh | gordc, it's an atomic/standalone piece of data | 21:14 |
| mrutkows | dhellmann, that is you cant translate it and sign it for an auditor expecting CADF (or any standard format) | 21:14 |
| gordc | sandywalsh, so cadf allows for that... it just stores it in a prescriptive way. | 21:15 |
| mrutkows | dhellmann, maintaining the trust chain of the audit record gets voided | 21:15 |
| dhellmann | mrutkows: that doesn't make any sense to me, but I guess I don't understand how the signing part works | 21:15 |
| sandywalsh | gordc, that's fine, but within nova, it shouldn't come from two sources. We have the .notify() method for generating events. Now there is the middleware. People won't know where stuff belongs. | 21:15 |
| jd__ | I'm going to repeat myself, but what would be the problem with having a way to emit notifications directly in CADF? | 21:15 |
| sandywalsh | it's like the InstanceFault table vs. ServerError table (or whatever it's called) | 21:16 |
| dragondm | a new oslo notification driver? | 21:16 |
| dhellmann | jd__: we would, at best, be able to attach cadf data to the notification | 21:16 |
| jd__ | dragondm: a new set of drivers for the format | 21:16 |
| dhellmann | we need the other fields | 21:16 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: what about having translation drivers? | 21:16 |
| sandywalsh | jd__, if it's optional that's fine | 21:16 |
| topol | sandywalsh, how do we resolve the two source issue? | 21:16 |
| sandywalsh | topol, a new notification driver that writes in CADF format | 21:17 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: it would be a "format driver" that would translate the wire format | 21:17 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: so yeah totally optional | 21:17 |
| dhellmann | jd__: our one existing notification plugin has caused so much pain and hassle, I do not want to write another one unless it's added right to oslo | 21:17 |
| gordc | sandywalsh, the middleware is optional path. | 21:17 |
| topol | +1 on totally optional | 21:17 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: yeah that would be another layer of driver in oslo | 21:17 |
| dhellmann | sandywalsh: it would only be optional if you didn't want to collect auditing data about the API | 21:17 |
| gordc | sandywalsh, it will also hopefully be reuseable across all projects | 21:17 |
| sandywalsh | gordc, optional isn't the issue, it's duplicating the capture of an event in two places | 21:17 |
| dhellmann | because, from what mrutkows says, we have to keep the data in the same format as it moves around | 21:18 |
| litong | folks, with the multiple dispatcher enablement, it does not have to be in the pipeline. | 21:18 |
| dhellmann | which makes me wonder how we store the data, but that's another thing | 21:18 |
| litong | it can be a totally independent dispatcher. | 21:18 |
| sandywalsh | 1. in the middleware and 2. lower down where the activity is actually taking place | 21:18 |
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| dhellmann | sandywalsh: if we follow what mrutkows says, we have to create the CADF object in the middleware, and it has to stay the same as it moves all the way into ceilometer's database | 21:19 |
| jd__ | gordc, dhellmann ultimately I can try to build a small illustrated proposal out of that if you want | 21:19 |
| sandywalsh | jd__, a new notification that simply translated on-the-wire would be fine (and encouraged :) | 21:19 |
| sandywalsh | s/notification/notification driver/ | 21:19 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: nice to hear :) | 21:19 |
| dhellmann | mrutkows: is that allowed? | 21:19 |
| mrutkows | dhellmann, correct, pretty standard for auditing certifications | 21:19 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: that's in conformance with what sandywalsh did with the event recording stuff | 21:19 |
| * dhellmann is very confused | 21:20 | |
| gordc | sandywalsh, hmm, i hadn't really traced what activity nova sends out currently but the current middlware just tracks raw api request and grabbing relevant user/project info | 21:20 |
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| dhellmann | mrutkows: which is "correct"? that it is ok to create the data in one format in the middleware and then turn it into cadf inside the notification pipeline somewhere, or that we must not do that? | 21:20 |
| sandywalsh | signing the event in the notification driver would be even better than doing it in the middleware. | 21:20 |
| dhellmann | gordc: if we're going to do this, let's try to do it in a way that works for everything | 21:21 |
| sandywalsh | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/SystemUsageData | 21:21 |
| gordc | jd__, i think that'd be good. i think we have different visions right now that may or may not be closer than we think | 21:21 |
| mrutkows | dhellmann, that "it has to stay in same format thru the system to the DB" | 21:21 |
| dhellmann | even if we don't implement it for everything now | 21:21 |
| sandywalsh | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/SystemUsageData | 21:21 |
| dhellmann | mrutkows: right, ok, so that means that a notification transformer will not meet the auditing requirements | 21:21 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: middleware calls notify(data), oslo translates the data in a format (either our current native or CADF), sends it to a wire via its driver (e.g. RPC), ceilometer collector receives it and store it (and read it via a translation API to get data to build its Samples) | 21:21 |
| dhellmann | no, jd__ , that's what I'm saying: the auditors will not accept that data | 21:21 |
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| jd__ | for which reason? | 21:22 |
| mrutkows | dhellmann, yes, a transformer would void they original record | 21:22 |
| dhellmann | or rather, that's what mrutkows is saying | 21:22 |
| gordc | dhellmann, agreed. should work for everything but we need to do it in steps... question is what we consider is step 1, 2, 3.. | 21:22 |
| dhellmann | jd__: because the ORIGINAL version of the data is not in the CADF signed object | 21:22 |
| sandywalsh | mrutkows, sounds fishy. The middleware has it in an intermediate format until it's turned into CADF. The payload would be the same intermediate format. | 21:22 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: but it didn't leave the software yet! :( | 21:22 |
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| dhellmann | this seems overly strict to me, too | 21:22 |
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| sandywalsh | jd__, +1 | 21:22 |
| dhellmann | I'm just trying to make sure I understand "the rules" | 21:23 |
| jd__ | mrutkows: is what dhellmann says right? :( | 21:23 |
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| mrutkows | sandywalsh, we are not signing today (not in scope of current blueprint), but is what we need to do | 21:23 |
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| sandywalsh | mrutkows, even without the signing, the notification mechanism would meet your criteria ... the event hasn't left the system yet. | 21:24 |
| mrutkows | sandywalsh, any signing involves signing (using a hash of the record) against a canonical form | 21:24 |
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| sandywalsh | if you translated after it hit rabbit ... yes, I would agree. | 21:24 |
| sandywalsh | but this would be before rabbit | 21:24 |
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| dragondm | before it left the originating process, even. | 21:25 |
| sandywalsh | correct | 21:25 |
| jd__ | yup | 21:25 |
| jd__ | *everyone looks at mrutkows* | 21:25 |
| dhellmann | mrutkows: what is the "canonical form" that goes into the signing? | 21:25 |
| mrutkows | sandywalsh, not sure why you would create one format (TBD) and then translate to another, thenn sign it before putting on the notification bus? | 21:26 |
| mrutkows | sandywalsh, recall that CADF is being added as "metadata" in the current event message | 21:26 |
| sandywalsh | mrutkows, because there's an existing code base that uses this mechanism and introducing a new source of events would be duplicating efforts | 21:27 |
| mrutkows | sandywalsh, and that we are making audit middleware pluggable to support more than one format | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | so this is different from what I understood | 21:27 |
| sandywalsh | if there's a missing event, add a new notification. Not need to decide "does this go in middleware or at the origin" | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | mrutkows: are you saying then, that the entire notification would not be cadf? | 21:27 |
| mrutkows | sandywalsh, what is the other source? audit middleware is optional | 21:27 |
| mrutkows | dhellmann, we did not want to suggest cadf or any format to replace the one in ceilomter already so we assumed, for this blueprint that we would fit in by putting it in metadata | 21:28 |
| sandywalsh | mrutkows, but the code is called all the time. There may just be no plug in defined for it. In fact, the plan is to move more into notifications and away from logging (for .info and .error) | 21:28 |
| topol | how does the other source get modified to optionally generate cadf? is there an extension point? | 21:28 |
| dhellmann | mrutkows: interesting | 21:28 |
| sandywalsh | and make the default notification driver the logging driver | 21:28 |
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| dhellmann | so the notification would include the data in some generic format, and then it would include the CADF payload as a duplicate, and that part of the payload would be signed separately from the rest of the notification? | 21:29 |
| mrutkows | dhellmann, we wanted to be as non-invasive as possible in everything we did | 21:29 |
| dhellmann | ok, this was not at all clear from the docs | 21:29 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: interesting, I'm on the same page on this | 21:30 |
| dhellmann | perhaps because the example shows how to map a sample to a cadf representation of the same data, I was confused | 21:30 |
| sandywalsh | is this a nova notification or a CM notification ... from the code I thought the middleware was writing directly to the CM notification bus? | 21:30 |
| gordc | dhellmann, right. we just append cadf to payload. | 21:30 |
| dhellmann | gordc: ok, that makes things significantly different for me | 21:31 |
| dhellmann | and it makes the idea of having it be pluggable make more sense | 21:31 |
| mrutkows | dhellmann, sorry for semantic issues | 21:31 |
| dhellmann | and it also makes the idea of a notification plugin make even more sense | 21:31 |
| dragondm | basically it's a 'wrapper' notification driver, iiuc | 21:31 |
| sandywalsh | when you say "payload" do you mean the nova notification payload? event['payload'] = { ... } ? | 21:31 |
| dhellmann | all notifications could basically have the auditing data added to them, not just the api call notifications | 21:31 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: what about DRY? | 21:32 |
| dhellmann | sandywalsh: yes, I think a new "audit" key in the payload dictionary would hold this data | 21:32 |
| dhellmann | jd__: nothing would query into the audit field, so it would be treated as a black box | 21:32 |
| gordc | sandywalsh, we mean olso.notifier... .notify(context, payload) | 21:32 |
| mrutkows | dellmann, cool by me | 21:32 |
| sandywalsh | how does api middleware have access to the notification? | 21:32 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: that's still storing twice the same things though | 21:32 |
| topol | dhellmann +1 | 21:32 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: but that's still inline with drivers in oslo | 21:32 |
| dhellmann | true | 21:33 |
| jd__ | (in line in two words) | 21:33 |
| mrutkows | jd___, there is some small overlap, but much is unique | 21:33 |
| dragondm | sandywalsh, if I understand, it's implemented as a notification driver. | 21:33 |
| jd__ | mrutkows: ah ok -- I admit I lack information on what's in :) | 21:33 |
| gordc | jd__, sandywalsh, is the preference to have the notifications be emit from nova, glance, etc... api code? | 21:33 |
| jd__ | gordc: would be, what's why I think it should target oslo notifier | 21:34 |
| dhellmann | gordc: what we want is to have a notification plugin that adds cadf data to all notifications as they go out | 21:34 |
| sandywalsh | gordc, I'm recalling the code review on this and I thought it was wsgi middleware | 21:34 |
| jd__ | gordc: so everything that's already calling notify() would benefit from it | 21:34 |
| dhellmann | and then that plugin could be turned on or off, depending on whether the deployer wants it | 21:34 |
| dhellmann | and all of the applications don't have to know about cadf or auditing | 21:34 |
| jd__ | yep | 21:34 |
| sandywalsh | gordc, is this something new proposed, or perhaps I'm thinking of a different branch? | 21:34 |
| gordc | sandywalsh, correct. | 21:34 |
| dhellmann | gordc: and the best part of it is you could build that thing entirely in the pycadf library and other projects could consume it | 21:35 |
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| dhellmann | ceilometer wouldn't have to know about cadf at all -- the auditing data would just be an extra field in the metadata of every sample | 21:35 |
| mrutkows | jd__, we are only attempting to audit APIs by allowing the middlewar filter to be enabled by components, not sure if every notification needs to be audited (not enough knowledge) | 21:35 |
| sandywalsh | gordc, if it's wsgi middleware, how does it get access to the .notify() calls (in other processes)? | 21:35 |
| dhellmann | and your middleware could simply emit standard notifications | 21:35 |
| dhellmann | and that could live in oslo or somewhere else to make it easy to share it | 21:36 |
| jd__ | mrutkows: I'm likely to say yes, we want audit everywhere | 21:36 |
| dhellmann | yeah, there is really no point in building auditing only for the API calls | 21:36 |
| jd__ | and I think we'll have to switch to other topics now guys :) | 21:36 |
| gordc | sandywalsh, the middleware is coded up as part of ceilometer egg. it has access to it then. | 21:36 |
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| sandywalsh | hmm, I'm confused | 21:36 |
| dhellmann | yes, let's discuss this on the mailing list | 21:36 |
| sandywalsh | yep | 21:37 |
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| gordc | dhellmann, jd__, yes. there is a lot of information being passed around right now | 21:37 |
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| mrutkows | dhellmann, it could, but I do not have the design of what other things follow that path to say those are all audit candidates, APIs was our only target for the near term | 21:37 |
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| topol | so just need to understand what is the minimum piece that goes in ceilometer to make this work. | 21:37 |
| dhellmann | mrutkows: the notification system is the common way the openstack components record the fact that some event has happened | 21:38 |
| gordc | so we would have the event listener in audit.api events in collector still? | 21:38 |
| jd__ | not sure there's any at this point :) | 21:38 |
| topol | event audit listener is the only part, correct | 21:38 |
| gordc | listen for audit api* | 21:38 |
| mrutkows | dhellmann, since APIs represent "authenticated" requests from users and are essential to track for security audits | 21:38 |
| jd__ | #topic Last call for backports for 2013.1.3 | 21:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Last call for backports for 2013.1.3 (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:38 | |
| jd__ | eglynn: around? | 21:39 |
| eglynn | yep | 21:39 |
| sandywalsh | sorry, for the sake of others on previous topic: | 21:39 |
| sandywalsh | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/36213/ | 21:39 |
| eglynn | yeah, so last-call-for-alcohol on the upcoming 2013.1.3 release | 21:39 |
| eglynn | (freeze is tmrw!) | 21:39 |
| eglynn | here are the backports we got landed today ... | 21:39 |
| eglynn | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/2013.1.3 | 21:39 |
| eglynn | if anyone reckons I missed something important, please shout in the next hour or so ... | 21:40 |
| eglynn | otherwise let's go with that | 21:40 |
| eglynn | release due to be cut on Aug 8th | 21:40 |
| eglynn | I'll ask apevec to do the honours again | 21:40 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: are there outstanding reviews you need help with? | 21:40 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: nope, thanks, everything I proposed is now landed | 21:41 |
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| jd__ | #topic Review Havana-3 milestone | 21:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Havana-3 milestone (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:41 | |
| jd__ | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/havana-3 | 21:41 |
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| jd__ | so everything should be started RSN now | 21:41 |
| eglynn | RSN? | 21:42 |
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| jd__ | really soon now | 21:42 |
| jd__ | :) | 21:42 |
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| eglynn | a-ha :) | 21:42 |
| jd__ | if you want to get merged on time | 21:42 |
| jd__ | 'cause there's a lot of stuff, a lot of potential conflict, rebase, war! | 21:42 |
| jd__ | and I need to stress that eglynn has a lot on his plate | 21:43 |
| eglynn | I've got some stuff near ready to propose | 21:43 |
| jd__ | so eglynn if you want to share, don't hesitate | 21:43 |
| eglynn | but not really prone to conflict & rebase | 21:43 |
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| jd__ | ack | 21:43 |
| eglynn | (as mostly new) | 21:43 |
| eglynn | cool | 21:43 |
| gordc | sorry folks, need to leave. thanks for (very) detailed discussion. will check logs later. jd__, dhellmann, sandywalsh, will checkpoint again later to see how to properly impl. | 21:43 |
| jd__ | cya gordc | 21:44 |
| dhellmann | thanks, gordc | 21:44 |
| jd__ | #topic Release python-ceilometerclient? | 21:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Release python-ceilometerclient? (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:44 | |
| gordc | thanks for looking at it :), cheers, | 21:44 |
| jd__ | should be good on that I guess | 21:44 |
| eglynn | no need I think | 21:44 |
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| sandywalsh | gordc, thanks ... later! | 21:44 |
| eglynn | (given that we release last week) | 21:44 |
| dhellmann | did we fix that client version pinning issue? | 21:44 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: yes | 21:44 |
| dhellmann | ok | 21:44 |
| jd__ | #topic Hong Kong Summit: Who's going? (nealph) | 21:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Hong Kong Summit: Who's going? (nealph) (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:44 | |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:44 |
| eglynn | o/ | 21:44 |
| jd__ | o/ | 21:45 |
| mrutkows | o/ | 21:45 |
| eglynn | asalkeld's proxy: o/ | 21:45 |
| mrutkows | (at least I am on the list for now) | 21:45 |
| jd__ | sileht should be there too | 21:45 |
| sileht | o/ | 21:45 |
| sandywalsh | o/ | 21:45 |
| jd__ | see, told ya | 21:45 |
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| sandywalsh | (on my own dime) | 21:45 |
| dhellmann | has anyone started thinking about topics? | 21:45 |
| nealph | o/ | 21:45 |
| eglynn | sandywalsh: ouch! | 21:45 |
| thomasm | Youch | 21:46 |
| nealph | yes, we have a couple in the works... | 21:46 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: rax doesn't send you/anyone? | 21:46 |
| sandywalsh | yeah, haven't missed a summit yet, can't start now. | 21:46 |
| sandywalsh | it's not decided who's going yet | 21:46 |
| jd__ | ack | 21:46 |
| nealph | sandywalsh: that's the second part of this discussion topic. | 21:46 |
| eglynn | sandywalsh: hit the foundation travel programme ;) | 21:46 |
| terriyu | I'm applying to the travel fund, so if I get it, I'll be going | 21:46 |
| dhellmann | indeed, that's what it's there fore | 21:46 |
| nealph | Distance may be an issue for some... | 21:46 |
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| jd__ | nealph: I don't see any difference as far as I'm concern :) | 21:47 |
| sandywalsh | eglynn, good idea! | 21:47 |
| nealph | Ha, true. | 21:47 |
| terriyu | eglynn: : are you talking about the travel fund? | 21:48 |
| eglynn | terriyu: yep | 21:48 |
| terriyu | the application is due today. I'm working on it right now :) | 21:48 |
| nealph | travel fund? | 21:48 |
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| dhellmann | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Travel_Support_Program | 21:48 |
| eglynn | terriyu: are you covered anyway as an intern? | 21:48 |
| terriyu | #link http://www.openstack.org/blog/2013/07/the-all-new-openstack-travel-support-program/ | 21:48 |
| herndon | o/ | 21:48 |
| terriyu | eglynn: my internship program only covers $500, probably not enough for Hong Kong ;) | 21:49 |
| eglynn | IIRC all the women-in-openstack interns were in Portland last time round | 21:49 |
| eglynn | terriyu: ah, I see :( | 21:49 |
| nealph | Is it premature to discuss alternate meet-ups for those that can't swing the cost? | 21:49 |
| dhellmann | alternate? | 21:49 |
| jd__ | counter-party^Wsummit? | 21:49 |
| dhellmann | alternate-and-concurrent? | 21:50 |
| jd__ | are you working for CloudStack? | 21:50 |
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| nealph | perhaps not concurrent... | 21:50 |
| jd__ | ;) | 21:50 |
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| dhellmann | do we know what the remote participation system will be this time? | 21:50 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: I didn't hear anything about that | 21:50 |
| nealph | dhellmann: well, that would ultimately be best. | 21:51 |
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| jd__ | I *think* the travel program is meant to help required people to join rather than trying remote system | 21:51 |
| jd__ | since it seems remote systems aren't really easy to deal with | 21:52 |
| asalkeld | well you could skype/g+ | 21:52 |
| asalkeld | that's not so hard | 21:52 |
| asalkeld | if the network is functional | 21:53 |
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| nealph | did you guys attempt that for the ceilometer track discussions | 21:53 |
| nealph | ? | 21:53 |
| dhellmann | big if | 21:53 |
| nealph | in Portland? | 21:53 |
| asalkeld | yea | 21:53 |
| dhellmann | not in portland, but in san diego I think we had webex or something in some of the rooms | 21:53 |
| dhellmann | only for core projects | 21:53 |
| dhellmann | or maybe that was san francisco | 21:54 |
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| nealph | I'm just nosing around for ways for non-attendees to get plugged in... | 21:55 |
| jd__ | nealph: it may be too soon anyway | 21:55 |
| jd__ | retry that in a couple of months :) | 21:55 |
| sandywalsh | dhellmann, re: topics: I submitted one for our StackTach improvements (a lot) and how we're going to bring that to CM | 21:55 |
| nealph | agreed. I'll circle back. | 21:55 |
| dhellmann | sandywalsh: cool, looking forward to hearing about that | 21:55 |
| jd__ | #topic Open discussion | 21:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:56 | |
| jd__ | a couple of minute left if you've anything | 21:56 |
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| jd__ | I'll talk about my bp next week -- too tired for that today | 21:56 |
| jd__ | and so little time anyway :) | 21:56 |
| dhellmann | I'll be out again next week. Please don't assign me any tasks. ;-) | 21:57 |
| jd__ | like we ever did that | 21:57 |
| * dhellmann remembers something about a vote... | 21:57 | |
| jd__ | http://24.media.tumblr.com/2967bb33c37b7cca5235ebe4dbbca160/tumblr_mk59ikxWdo1s7g8g4o1_500.jpg | 21:58 |
| dhellmann | lol | 21:58 |
| mrutkows | omg | 21:58 |
| * nealph second time I've seen that rabbit today...popular bunny. | 21:58 | |
| mrutkows | will show my daughter that one | 21:58 |
| jd__ | #endmeeting | 21:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "driver certification (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 21:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 31 21:59:11 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-07-31-21.02.html | 21:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-07-31-21.02.txt | 21:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-07-31-21.02.log.html | 21:59 |
| jd__ | see you soon guys, happy hacking! :) | 21:59 |
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| sandywalsh | o/ | 21:59 |
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| fifieldt | reed, hiya | 22:50 |
| reed | hello fifieldt, welcome | 22:50 |
| fifieldt | thanks reed, it's good to be here | 22:50 |
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| reed | annegentle, did you have a topic for today's community meeting? | 22:59 |
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| * reed trying to remember | 23:00 | |
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| reed | fifieldt, ready for the meeting? | 23:03 |
| fifieldt | yessir | 23:03 |
| reed | #startmeeting openstack-community | 23:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 31 23:03:56 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is reed. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 23:03 |
| fifieldt | unfortunately I have yet to automate all the things of my workload, and so much going on :) | 23:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 23:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-community)" | 23:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_community' | 23:04 |
| reed | #topic action items from last meeting | 23:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "action items from last meeting (Meeting topic: openstack-community)" | 23:04 | |
| reed | #info there was none :) | 23:04 |
| fifieldt | brilliant | 23:04 |
| fifieldt | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Community | 23:04 |
| reed | #topic pending issues https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-community | 23:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "pending issues https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-community (Meeting topic: openstack-community)" | 23:05 | |
| reed | so, the Bitergia folks are working on a new version of the dashboard | 23:06 |
| fifieldt | cool | 23:06 |
| reed | it's deployed, based on bootstrap | 23:06 |
| reed | it allows more flexibility to move things around | 23:06 |
| reed | they have removed the link to the "top things" from the navigation bar | 23:06 |
| fifieldt | ok | 23:06 |
| reed | so we don't have one page that looks like a race | 23:07 |
| reed | there are more improvements to be made but I believe they require a much longer conversation with them | 23:07 |
| fifieldt | right, ok | 23:07 |
| reed | Bitergia submitted a talk to Hong Kong, they have ideas to discuss | 23:07 |
| fifieldt | cool! | 23:08 |
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| reed | zagile is also working on the fixes assigned to them, they'll submit a talk too | 23:08 |
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| fifieldt | yay | 23:08 |
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| reed | on Ask also I've had a meeting with Evgeny, closed some bugs and updated others today | 23:09 |
| fifieldt | I noticed that | 23:09 |
| fifieldt | good progress | 23:09 |
| reed | any specific question on the pending issues? | 23:09 |
| fifieldt | mm | 23:09 |
| reed | I have one: | 23:10 |
| fifieldt | yes? | 23:10 |
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| reed | we'll have Evgeny, Zagile and Bitergia and Tipit work on projects in an 'agile' fashion | 23:10 |
| reed | with stories and points attached to issues to solve and features | 23:11 |
| fifieldt | aye | 23:11 |
| reed | to build a workplan and generate a SOW | 23:11 |
| reed | I'd like that whole plan/process to be visible | 23:11 |
| reed | what tools do we have for that? | 23:11 |
| reed | maybe this is a question for the #infra team | 23:11 |
| fifieldt | right now, just blueprints and bugs are all we've got | 23:12 |
| fifieldt | and the wiki :) | 23:12 |
| fifieldt | and etherpad | 23:12 |
| fifieldt | we can target blueprints to milestones | 23:12 |
| reed | oh, sure... blueprints may be enough | 23:12 |
| russellb | don't think we have anything better than launchpad for project tracking right now | 23:12 |
| fifieldt | and bugs to blueoruints | 23:12 |
| fifieldt | but | 23:12 |
| reed | and milestones... | 23:12 |
| fifieldt | keep in mind the access control issues | 23:12 |
| reed | explain | 23:13 |
| fifieldt | you'll probably need to make them admins of the community project | 23:13 |
| fifieldt | as only certain roles are able to target blueprints and assign milestyones | 23:13 |
| fifieldt | not sure of the exact permissions required | 23:13 |
| reed | ok, makes sense | 23:13 |
| fifieldt | but it's not very fine-grained | 23:13 |
| reed | #action reed to investigate using blueprints and milestones to manage development projects | 23:13 |
| reed | something else? | 23:14 |
| fifieldt | I'm ok so far - got a good response from evgeny on my query about 'sorting by view' | 23:14 |
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| fifieldt | but I guess it will take time to implement | 23:14 |
| * reed subscribing to that bug | 23:15 | |
| * fifieldt gets all spam :D | 23:15 | |
| reed | makes sense | 23:16 |
| reed | it's one of the projects I'd like to have Evgeny work on: reporting tools | 23:16 |
| fifieldt | cool | 23:16 |
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| reed | next topic? | 23:17 |
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| fifieldt | sure | 23:17 |
| reed | #topic progress report of projects: Ask in Chinese, User Group Portal | 23:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "progress report of projects: Ask in Chinese, User Group Portal (Meeting topic: openstack-community)" | 23:17 | |
| reed | ok, so Ask in Chinese is quite ready to go live | 23:17 |
| reed | the site itself works | 23:18 |
| reed | the search itself works | 23:18 |
| reed | the UI is only 60% or so translated | 23:18 |
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| fifieldt | want to push the button? | 23:18 |
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| reed | I'd say "ship it" | 23:19 |
| fifieldt | what's the latency like from translations getting into askbot transifex to being deployed on ask.openstack.org/zh ? | 23:19 |
| fifieldt | ship it :) | 23:19 |
| reed | we'll need a few minutes downtime | 23:19 |
| reed | I'm asking Evgeny about that, not sure | 23:20 |
| reed | I'd assume around a week | 23:20 |
| fifieldt | kk | 23:20 |
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| reed | I assume also that he can automate that in the future | 23:21 |
| fifieldt | that's probably a good idea | 23:21 |
| fifieldt | more rewarding if you see your translation on the site sooner | 23:21 |
| fifieldt | :) | 23:21 |
| reed | yeah, once a week is a plausible timeframe says Evgeny | 23:22 |
| fifieldt | kewl' | 23:22 |
| reed | about the user/community group portal: contract is signed | 23:23 |
| fifieldt | congratulations! | 23:23 |
| reed | kickoff meeting is tomorrow at 23:00 CEDT with Marton, Todd and me | 23:24 |
| reed | are you able to join it? | 23:24 |
| reed | (if you want to) | 23:24 |
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| fifieldt | looking at timezone now | 23:24 |
| reed | it's about 2 hours before this | 23:24 |
| fifieldt | tomorrow = Thursday? | 23:25 |
| fifieldt | yeah, 7am | 23:25 |
| fifieldt | I should be able to do that | 23:25 |
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| fifieldt | thanks to jet lag :D | 23:25 |
| fifieldt | skype, irc, ... | 23:25 |
| fifieldt | ? | 23:25 |
| reed | skype | 23:25 |
| fifieldt | ok | 23:25 |
| fifieldt | I'll wake up and you can patch me in :)( | 23:26 |
| reed | ok | 23:26 |
| reed | this completes my overview | 23:26 |
| fifieldt | ok | 23:27 |
| reed | #topic various | 23:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "various (Meeting topic: openstack-community)" | 23:27 | |
| reed | there was something that annegentle mentioned to me but I don't remember it now | 23:28 |
| fifieldt | It might be in my email, but I've not caught up yet :s | 23:28 |
| reed | meanwhile: the migration to the mailing list is complete | 23:28 |
| reed | no, it was on IRC | 23:28 |
| * fifieldt pops champagne | 23:28 | |
| fifieldt | oh - wiki page obsolescence | 23:28 |
| fifieldt | We now have an "obsolete" namespace | 23:28 |
| fifieldt | that any user can use to move dead pages to | 23:29 |
| fifieldt | need to figure out the best way to use that and communicate it | 23:29 |
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| reed | right | 23:29 |
| reed | other thing: we have a new policy for the blog | 23:29 |
| reed | #action reed to write down the new policy for the blog and communicate it | 23:30 |
| fifieldt | #action reed to comment on fifieldt's email titled "Dealing with Out of Date wiki pages" ;) | 23:31 |
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| reed | #info we're going to restrict access to the openstack blog to openstack foundation staff and promote the use of planet for everything else since planet is featured on the homepage http://openstack.org anyway | 23:31 |
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| fifieldt | reed, was annegentle's topic "integrating doc comments with ask"? | 23:31 |
| reed | maybe... that's a good topic | 23:32 |
| reed | i forgot to ask Evgeny about that | 23:32 |
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| fifieldt | np | 23:33 |
| reed | #action reed to investigate further how to use askbot widgets, find examples of other sites using them, etc | 23:34 |
| reed | something else? | 23:35 |
| fifieldt | not that comes to mind right now | 23:35 |
| fifieldt | there;s the trystack survey | 23:35 |
| fifieldt | but I think this needs to go on for another couple of weeks | 23:36 |
| fifieldt | only 20 responses so far | 23:36 |
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| reed | I'm wondering if we should try to promote it in other ways too | 23:37 |
| fifieldt | how would you think, reed? | 23:37 |
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| reed | not sure... | 23:37 |
| fifieldt | any way I can think of doesn't hit those facebook users :s | 23:37 |
| reed | yeah ... | 23:37 |
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| reed | so, lets wait a bit more | 23:39 |
| fifieldt | ok | 23:39 |
| fifieldt | I am also going to try and arrange a meeting with trystack admins | 23:39 |
| fifieldt | so we can find out who is involved | 23:39 |
| fifieldt | and how it's being run :) | 23:39 |
| reed | oh, maybe we can send an email to the general list saying 'go to facebook and respond to the survey' | 23:39 |
| reed | without revealing the liknk to the survey itself | 23:40 |
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| * fifieldt has a feeling this will just generate new users ... | 23:40 | |
| fifieldt | which isn't necessarily something we want to do right now ... given the recent downtime, I guess :s | 23:40 |
| reed | fifieldt, better risk that than have the survey sit there capturing .3% of members | 23:41 |
| fifieldt | I disagree :) | 23:41 |
| reed | I don't approve new members anyway | 23:41 |
| fifieldt | I really worry about the negative experience of people - especially if they are using OpenStack for the first time | 23:42 |
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| reed | I hear you... so a message that simply says: | 23:42 |
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| reed | we're collecting feedback from current trystack users. Go to the facebook group <link> and fill in the survey please to help us decide the future direction of the project. | 23:43 |
| fifieldt | yeah, I feel uncomfortable with that | 23:44 |
| fifieldt | since it's still promoting trystack | 23:44 |
| reed | if people are not members, we don't let them join | 23:44 |
| fifieldt | other idea: | 23:44 |
| fifieldt | add the link to the trystack dashboard | 23:44 |
| fifieldt | the survey has actually already had a result - | 23:44 |
| reed | makes sense | 23:44 |
| fifieldt | we know that people are not engaged with the trystack community group | 23:44 |
| reed | where is my 'not surprised' face? | 23:45 |
| reed | :) | 23:45 |
| fifieldt | :) | 23:45 |
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| fifieldt | I think stopping accepting new users is not our decision to make right now - we're not running trystack | 23:45 |
| reed | anyway, I'm not sure that sending an email to 8k people on the general list linking to a facebook group would result in 'promotion' of trystack | 23:46 |
| reed | i think the risk is low compared to the advantage of getting more feedback | 23:46 |
| fifieldt | I disagree :) | 23:46 |
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| reed | we're admins though :) | 23:46 |
| fifieldt | I think that if ten more people have a bad OpenStack experience due to trystack, that's too many | 23:46 |
| reed | and we can discuss this with the others | 23:46 |
| *** hemna is now known as hemnafk | 23:46 | |
| fifieldt | which is why I want to have a meeting with the admins as soon as we can | 23:47 |
| reed | if you're that concerned we should just close it then | 23:47 |
| reed | I get 2/3 new requests to join every day | 23:47 |
| fifieldt | I am that concerned | 23:47 |
| reed | or suggest that we close it :) | 23:48 |
| reed | ok, lets postpone this discussion until you talk to the admins | 23:48 |
| reed | other things to discuss? | 23:49 |
| fifieldt | kmewl | 23:49 |
| fifieldt | hmm, not yet :D | 23:49 |
| reed | #info the migration of General mailing list is almost done. Need to migrate archives. The mail server is a bit slow, delays to delivery are to be expected. The infra team is working on fine tuning exim. | 23:50 |
| reed | #info trystack survey still going on on Facebook group. Will wait more time to capture more responses. | 23:51 |
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| reed | #action fifieldt to have a meeting with trystack admins | 23:51 |
| reed | i think we're done for this week | 23:51 |
| reed | #endmeeting | 23:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "driver certification (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 23:51 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 31 23:51:52 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 23:51 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_community/2013/openstack_community.2013-07-31-23.03.html | 23:51 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_community/2013/openstack_community.2013-07-31-23.03.txt | 23:51 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_community/2013/openstack_community.2013-07-31-23.03.log.html | 23:51 |
| fifieldt | cheers reed | 23:52 |
| reed | why cinder in the topic? | 23:52 |
| fifieldt | hmm, maybe from a previous meeting that wasn't closed properly | 23:52 |
| fifieldt | :) | 23:52 |
| reed | jeblair, why cinder in the topic? | 23:52 |
| jeblair | reed: bot snafu earlier; needed to wait until meetings were over to fix; thanks for the reminder. :) | 23:53 |
| *** jeblair changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 23:54 | |
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