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| n0ano | #startmeeting scheduler | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 18 15:00:35 2013 UTC. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scheduler)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scheduler' | 15:00 |
| n0ano | show of hands, anyone here for the scheduler meeting? | 15:00 |
| belmoreira | here | 15:00 |
| jgallard | hi all | 15:01 |
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| n0ano | #topic scalability | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "scalability (Meeting topic: scheduler)" | 15:03 | |
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| n0ano | I started a thread on the dev mailing list and have been getting some replies, have you seen the tread? | 15:04 |
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| belmoreira | not sure. what is the subject? | 15:05 |
| jgallard | from my side, sorry, I was not available the last few days... | 15:05 |
| shanewang | hi don | 15:05 |
| n0ano | Subject: Compute node stats sent to the scheduler | 15:05 |
| jgallard | ok, get it | 15:06 |
| n0ano | to me the big question is do we communicate usage data to the scheduler via fan-out message or through the DB | 15:06 |
| n0ano | I prefer fan-out messages (I hate DBs, it's a personal quirk) but I'm hearing from people that think the DB is the way to go. | 15:07 |
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| n0ano | I've voiced by concerns in the email thread, now waiting to hear back | 15:07 |
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| n0ano | we can talk about the issues here or just follow the email thread which is still active (I started the thread late) | 15:09 |
| belmoreira | sorry I need to read all thread | 15:09 |
| shanewang | I prefer fan-out messages too, as n0ano concerned, I am not sure who else is using db. | 15:09 |
| jgallard | +1 fan-out messages | 15:09 |
| n0ano | well, the one issue that hasn't been brought up is ceilometer, does it want to get the data from the DB or does it want to query the scheduler | 15:09 |
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| n0ano | shanewang, I'm in the process of reviewing the code to see who actually uses the DB data, not done with that yet. | 15:10 |
| n0ano | if no one has any strong opions today I think it makes sense to just see how the email thread works out. | 15:12 |
| shanewang | agree | 15:13 |
| jgallard | ok | 15:13 |
| n0ano | #topic follow ups on scheduler BPs | 15:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "follow ups on scheduler BPs (Meeting topic: scheduler)" | 15:13 | |
| n0ano | anyone have anything to report here? | 15:13 |
| belmoreira | two weeks ago we decided to discuss the blueprint: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/schedule-set-availability-zones | 15:14 |
| belmoreira | there are any opinions now? | 15:14 |
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| n0ano | I don't see how you belong to multiple availability zones, can you explain that? | 15:16 |
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| belmoreira | my understanding is that az is now defined in aggregates | 15:17 |
| belmoreira | a host can belong to different aggregates that have different azs | 15:18 |
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| n0ano | that seems - odd - to say the least, is that a feature that is actually being used? | 15:18 |
| belmoreira | I don't see much sense on it too. But you can have a setup were a host have multiple azs | 15:20 |
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| belmoreira | that's why a raised the question in the BP | 15:20 |
| belmoreira | but that is what is available now in nova... | 15:21 |
| belmoreira | about the BP what do you guys think about it? | 15:21 |
| n0ano | I'm not qualified to make a decision but I'd consider changing that to be a 1-1 map, host to AZ, but that might start a bit of a discussion | 15:22 |
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| jgallard | n0ano, +1 | 15:22 |
| belmoreira | I agree. | 15:23 |
| belmoreira | but the BP to have multiple default azs to an instance | 15:24 |
| belmoreira | instead only one. | 15:24 |
| shanewang | what's the benefit to set multiple available zones? for dividing more zones logically and physically. | 15:25 |
| jgallard | belmoreira, in the implementation part, "After find the node that will run the instance set the availability zone of the node to the instance", means AZ are provided dynamically according to clients? | 15:25 |
| n0ano | back to your BP, I'm unclear on the use case, if the AZ is set `after` scheduling then it can't be used for physical separation | 15:25 |
| belmoreira | jgallard. according to the client select using also the az_zone filter. | 15:27 |
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| belmoreira | when an instance is booted and the az filter is enabled only the clients of the default az are selected. | 15:27 |
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| belmoreira | if instead only one default az we have several | 15:28 |
| belmoreira | the az filter passes for all the nodes in them | 15:28 |
| belmoreira | the best node is selected and then the az is set | 15:28 |
| n0ano | so you're only addressing the case where the user `doesn't` specify an AZ | 15:29 |
| belmoreira | exactly | 15:29 |
| belmoreira | means that he doesn't care | 15:29 |
| belmoreira | but we can provide some reliability to the instances | 15:30 |
| belmoreira | starting maybe in different azs | 15:30 |
| n0ano | I can accept that and it makes sense but I still am having issues with setting the AZ after selecting the node, that means AZs don't apply to physical separation | 15:30 |
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| belmoreira | n0ano. its is physical separation as well... | 15:31 |
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| belmoreira | if you set two default azs means that you expect that the instances start in one of them | 15:32 |
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| n0ano | how, if you assign AZ after selecting the node then any node can be part of any AZ so there's no way to physically separate two nodes. | 15:32 |
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| jgallard | really? if a node can moved from one AZ to another, or even if a node can belong to multiple AZ at the same time? | 15:32 |
| n0ano | jgallard, that's my point | 15:33 |
| jgallard | n0ano, yes, and I agree with you | 15:33 |
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| belmoreira | if a node belongs to multiple azs is an admin problem | 15:33 |
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| belmoreira | in that case you don't have physical separation | 15:34 |
| belmoreira | I completely agree with that | 15:34 |
| n0ano | but `assigned after node selection` => not under admin control, this is under user control | 15:34 |
| n0ano | hang on, I think I see the confusion ... | 15:35 |
| belmoreira | but the az considered during the scheduler | 15:35 |
| belmoreira | scheduling | 15:35 |
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| jgallard | user control? | 15:36 |
| n0ano | a node is assigned to an AZ, the schdule request will select a node (potentially use AZ criteria) and, after the node is selecte, the AZ for the `instance` is set | 15:36 |
| belmoreira | yes | 15:36 |
| belmoreira | but instead only one default az if you have lets say two azs | 15:37 |
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| belmoreira | the scheduler uses the two azs for filtering | 15:38 |
| belmoreira | and picks the node | 15:38 |
| belmoreira | and the az of the node id set in the instance | 15:38 |
| n0ano | in that case I don't see an issue with having multiple default AZs, if the user didn't specify then the user doesn't care which AZ it winds up in. | 15:38 |
| belmoreira | for my use case is important to have this | 15:39 |
| belmoreira | because users usually never define an AZ | 15:39 |
| jgallard | this use case should not be handle with cells? | 15:39 |
| belmoreira | and we need to have multiple | 15:39 |
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| belmoreira | so we end up with the default az very busy | 15:39 |
| belmoreira | jgallard: we also have cells… but our cells are big | 15:40 |
| belmoreira | we like to split them in azs | 15:40 |
| n0ano | belmoreira, indeed. To me the only issue is which of the default AZs to pick, round robin or random or least used or ... | 15:40 |
| jgallard | ok, in your configuration AZ are partitions of cells, right? | 15:40 |
| jgallard | belmoreira, ah ok | 15:40 |
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| belmoreira | n0ano: my proposal is to change to availability_zone filter to pass for all azs defined as default. | 15:42 |
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| belmoreira | having the nodes of all azs | 15:42 |
| jgallard | belmoreira, is my understanding correct? --> the idea is to have a kind of "scheduler for AZ", this scheduler will pick one availability zone among several default ones in the case the user doesn't choose a specific AZ | 15:42 |
| belmoreira | the scheduler will select the best one considering the other filters | 15:42 |
| n0ano | and then let the normal scheduling choose the best node - seems like a reasonble fairly simple change | 15:42 |
| belmoreira | so is not random | 15:42 |
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| belmoreira | the point that I raised in the BP and we started the discussion with it | 15:44 |
| belmoreira | is what to do if a host belongs to different aggregates | 15:44 |
| belmoreira | and have multiple azs | 15:44 |
| belmoreira | I agree that is bad… but someone can have a setup like this. | 15:45 |
| n0ano | seems simple, if the host belongs to at least one of the default aggregates it passes, otherwise it only passes if it's a member of the specified AZ | 15:45 |
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| belmoreira | if it belongs to only one az of the default list it passes… and that az is set if the host is selected | 15:47 |
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| belmoreira | but if it belongs to more than one az in the default az list? | 15:47 |
| belmoreira | it passes as well | 15:47 |
| belmoreira | and what az we set to the instance? | 15:47 |
| belmoreira | probably ramdom? | 15:48 |
| n0ano | belmoreira, random, the user didn't specify so the user doesn't care | 15:48 |
| jgallard | probably :) | 15:48 |
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| belmoreira | ok. good | 15:48 |
| jgallard | or maybe the one which is the least loaded? | 15:48 |
| belmoreira | but for that we need more queries | 15:49 |
| n0ano | jgallard, the normal scheduling should have found the least loaded so I don't think we need to worry about that in the AZ filter | 15:49 |
| belmoreira | random is to avoid that | 15:49 |
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| jgallard | but, I mean, if you are on a node with multiple AZ, the admin should want to give priority to AZ which is least loaded | 15:50 |
| jgallard | I'm not sur if i'm clea | 15:50 |
| jgallard | clear | 15:50 |
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| belmoreira | jgallard: completely agree… but how to know what is the least loaded? | 15:51 |
| n0ano | I don't think the issue is `least loaded AZ` so much as it's `most optimal host` and the rest of the scheduling determines that | 15:51 |
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| jgallard | belmoreira, héhé yes, as you said this probably needs more queries | 15:51 |
| jgallard | n0ano, in fact, what I want to explain is that, if the user don't care about a specific AZ, and a node with multiple AZ is selected, perhaps, the admin will want to give a policy to select a prefer AZ between the one available on that node | 15:53 |
| jgallard | but this is not targeted by this BP | 15:54 |
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| n0ano | potentially but remember, `prefence` is determined by the weighting functions, filters only do yes/no so, as you say, finding the preferred AZ would be a different BP | 15:55 |
| n0ano | s/prefence/preference | 15:55 |
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| belmoreira | ok. I will start to implement this | 15:55 |
| n0ano | belmoreira, you might want to update the BP to remove the question and put in the decision | 15:56 |
| belmoreira | ok | 15:56 |
| n0ano | #opens | 15:56 |
| n0ano | just a few minutes left, does anyone have any opens for toda? | 15:57 |
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| jgallard | belmoreira, may be you can ask a question about the fact that, in the current implementation it's possible to have several AZ on a node? | 15:57 |
| jgallard | (on the mailing list) | 15:57 |
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| n0ano | jgallard, good idea (I like using the mailing lists) | 15:57 |
| belmoreira | ok | 15:58 |
| jgallard | n0ano, same for me :-) | 15:58 |
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| jgallard | belmoreira, thanks! | 15:58 |
| n0ano | hearing silence I think it's time to wrap up, tnx everyone, good discussion. | 15:59 |
| jgallard | thanks to all! | 15:59 |
| n0ano | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:59 | |
| belmoreira | yes… thanks to all. | 15:59 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 18 15:59:27 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler/2013/scheduler.2013-06-18-15.00.html | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler/2013/scheduler.2013-06-18-15.00.txt | 15:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler/2013/scheduler.2013-06-18-15.00.log.html | 15:59 |
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| schwicht | primeministerp: is the hypetV meetup on today, or did it get moved? | 16:12 |
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| zehicle_at_dell | :( sorry I missed the hyper-v meetup | 17:06 |
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| ayoung | #startmeeting keystone | 17:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 18 17:59:16 2013 UTC. The chair is ayoung. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:59 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 17:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 17:59 |
| ayoung | KEYSTONE! | 17:59 |
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| henrynash | hey | 17:59 |
| dolphm_ | o/ | 17:59 |
| spzala | Hi! | 17:59 |
| bknudson | hi | 17:59 |
| gyee | \o | 17:59 |
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| dolphm_ | ayoung: lol i'm around today, btw | 17:59 |
| ayoung | dolphm_, thought you were not going to be here this week | 17:59 |
| mrutkows | o/ | 17:59 |
| lbragstad | hey | 17:59 |
| dolphm_ | ayoung: next two weeks | 17:59 |
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| dolphm_ | ayoung: don't let me stop you :) | 18:00 |
| dolphm_ | ayoung: in fact, want to run next week's meeting as well? henrynash can do july 2 | 18:00 |
| ayoung | I'll keep the home fires burning | 18:00 |
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| topol | Hello | 18:00 |
| ayoung | We'll make it work. Henry and I can work together | 18:00 |
| dolphm_ | you'll also have to attend the release status meeting 3 hours after this | 18:00 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: indeed | 18:00 |
| topol | dolph gets a vacation???? I dont remember that in the brochure... | 18:00 |
| dolphm_ | :( | 18:00 |
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| topol | not a vacation? | 18:01 |
| ayoung | So looking at the agenda | 18:01 |
| dolphm_ | mini vacation i suppose | 18:01 |
| ayoung | Reminder: Havana milestone 2 cut & API-level feature freeze July 16th | 18:01 |
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| ayoung | dolphm_, care to spell out exactly what we will not allow after the 16th? | 18:01 |
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| dolphm_ | changes to the identity-api or anything that doc describes need to wait until icehouse after the 16th | 18:02 |
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| ayoung | dolphm_, how about configuration file changes? | 18:02 |
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| dolphm_ | changes can still land in identity-api during milestone 3, but they should be marked as "New in version 3.2" (to go with icehouse, rather than havana) | 18:02 |
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| dolphm_ | ayoung: config is fine | 18:02 |
| dolphm_ | ayoung: just a light feature freeze | 18:03 |
| ayoung | OK, so just changes that would force other services or the CLI to modify how they talk to Keystone, but changes that would affect installers etc are Ok. | 18:03 |
| dolphm_ | non-api impacting features are still fair game in milestone 3 | 18:03 |
| dolphm_ | ayoung: as long as they're backwards compatible changes that would affect installers :) | 18:03 |
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| gyee | how about API changes that are backward compatible? :) | 18:04 |
| dolphm_ | blueprints are targeted accordingly -- there's no blueprints targeted at m3 that affect api | 18:04 |
| ayoung | dolphm_, split identity is going to have some impact there. We can discuss if it looks like it is going to slip past H2, but right now it is looking likely to get in | 18:04 |
| dolphm_ | gyee: no | 18:04 |
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| gyee | figures | 18:04 |
| ayoung | gyee, those can be 3.2, just not 3.1 | 18:04 |
| gyee | gotcha | 18:04 |
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| ayoung | I think that makes it easier on everyone | 18:04 |
| dolphm_ | gyee: catalog-option is milestone 2 or icehouse, for example | 18:04 |
| dolphm_ | optional* | 18:05 |
| ayoung | Cool. Next item | 18:05 |
| ayoung | High priority bugs or immediate issues? | 18:05 |
| dolphm_ | ayoung: use #topic | 18:05 |
| ayoung | #topic High priority bugs or immediate issues | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "High priority bugs or immediate issues (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:05 | |
| dolphm_ | i'm not aware of anything new | 18:05 |
| ayoung | All critical bugs have fix committed | 18:05 |
| ayoung | 27 Bugs marked "High" | 18:06 |
| ayoung | 5 with fix committed | 18:06 |
| ayoung | 6 with "In Progress" | 18:06 |
| ayoung | The rest Triaged or confirmed | 18:06 |
| ayoung | keystone-manage db_sync fails updating from migrate_version 5 is incomplete | 18:07 |
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| bknudson1 | I've done a lot of keystone-manage db_sync lately and haven't had problems | 18:07 |
| ayoung | bknudson1, ISAM MySql? | 18:08 |
| dolphm_ | ayoung: i think that's another innodb vs myisam failure | 18:08 |
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| bknudson1 | well, MyISAM is not working | 18:08 |
| bknudson1 | migration 26 fails because it tries to drop FKs that aren't there. | 18:08 |
| ayoung | Right. I have a fix for that, but need to clean it up to pass code review. | 18:08 |
| bknudson1 | because MyISAM doesn't suport FKs? | 18:09 |
| ayoung | Need to straighten out my Postgres setup to retest | 18:09 |
| dolphm_ | bknudson1: ayoung: who wrote the fix to explicitly set innodb on all migrations? | 18:09 |
| bknudson1 | ayoung: I put a similar change into my fix for switching all tables to InnoDB | 18:09 |
| dolphm_ | did that merge? | 18:09 |
| ayoung | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/32510/ | 18:09 |
| ayoung | dolphm_, no, abandoned, I need to fix | 18:09 |
| ayoung | restored and rebased | 18:09 |
| bknudson1 | dolphm_: it's not done yet... I'm working on changing it so that the change is only in a new migration | 18:10 |
| ayoung | looks like just a Pep 8 fix... | 18:10 |
| bknudson1 | dolphm_: and then I ran into some weird problem where migration 7 downgrade failed. | 18:10 |
| dolphm_ | bknudson1: do we not need both parts? fix unspecific migrations and migrate broken schemas properly in 23? | 18:10 |
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| bknudson1 | dolphm_: but I figured that out and now it's a matter of creating the FKs that should have been there in the new migration 27 | 18:11 |
| dolphm_ | bknudson1: ah | 18:11 |
| bknudson1 | dolphm_: I should have this ready by end of day. | 18:12 |
| ayoung | dolphm_, the appraoch we should go with for, say, DB2 support is that we are willing to make changes to support it, but they should be changes that run for all (almost all) RDBMSs | 18:12 |
| ayoung | so that the DB2 code doesn't bitrot. | 18:13 |
| bknudson1 | ayoung: I made that update to the DB2 migrations | 18:13 |
| ayoung | bknudson1, thanks. | 18:13 |
| bknudson1 | ayoung: made extensive use of the constraints helper, so that's been handy | 18:13 |
| ayoung | Good | 18:14 |
| ayoung | Yeah, in general we should be moving duplicated code in the migrations into helpers | 18:14 |
| ayoung | #topic Unified Client authentication | 18:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Unified Client authentication (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:14 | |
| ayoung | And yes, that is also How do we encourage the other CLI clients to use our v3 auth client class | 18:15 |
| henrynash | i guessed as much | 18:15 |
| nachi | i am working on a code update for broken credential schema in sqlite which is no-op in 23 | 18:15 |
| dolphm_ | ayoung: make keystoneclient good and contribute back to other clients :) | 18:15 |
| ayoung | So, jamielennox has been battling the Kerberos and X509 type auth, and what has become obvious is that each of the clients reimplement it | 18:15 |
| ayoung | this is code duplication, and we should fix | 18:15 |
| ayoung | one solution is to have the other clients consume the keystone client for auth | 18:16 |
| ayoung | dolphm_, yes, we will do Keystoneclient first | 18:16 |
| bknudson1 | our users around here are also interested in having all the clis be able to do v3 auth | 18:16 |
| henrynash | ayoung: so i though nova and glane use our client class? | 18:16 |
| ayoung | henrynash, not in the CLI | 18:16 |
| bknudson1 | (i.e., use domains) | 18:16 |
| ayoung | henrynash, you are thinkg middleware, and yes they do | 18:16 |
| ayoung | auth_token middleware is in the client library. | 18:17 |
| henrynash | ayoung: I'd swear we had a discussion on this on the mailing list and it was implied the cli's do as well | 18:17 |
| gyee | keystoneclient or openstackclient? | 18:17 |
| bknudson1 | nova , glance, etc. | 18:17 |
| henrynash | gyee: novaclient | 18:17 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, I had two different engineers look at it. Let me see if I can get one of them here | 18:18 |
| gyee | I thought keystoneclient is on its way to retirement no? | 18:18 |
| gyee | in favor of openstackclient? | 18:18 |
| bknudson1 | the keystone command line utility is | 18:18 |
| bknudson1 | keystoneclient python lib will remain | 18:18 |
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| dolphm_ | gyee: just the CLI | 18:18 |
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| bknudson1 | openstack client is just the CLI | 18:18 |
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| gyee | i c | 18:19 |
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| ayoung | rcrit, you looked at the clients. None of the other clients are useing keystoneclient that you saw, right? | 18:19 |
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| rcrit | I didn't look at all of them, just nova and glance | 18:19 |
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| martitia_ | I believe cinder users keystoneclient | 18:20 |
| ayoung | rcrit, and they do their own auth, right? | 18:20 |
| martitia_ | uses* | 18:20 |
| ayoung | martitia_, thanks, good to know there is a precedent | 18:20 |
| henrynash | so chmouel and joeH seems to think they use the keystone auth class | 18:21 |
| rcrit | IIRC they do a lot of their own username/password handling, for example | 18:21 |
| rcrit | I was looking into how to add another auth protocol and it would have required updating each client separately | 18:21 |
| bknudson1 | how do you pass --user-domain-id, --project-domain-id to the other clis? | 18:21 |
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| ayoung | bknudson1, do they even support those fields? | 18:22 |
| bknudson1 | ayoung: not yet, but they'll have to to do v3 auth, right? | 18:22 |
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| ayoung | We need to bring this up at the Overall meeting later on tonight | 18:22 |
| ayoung | dolphm_, is that OK? | 18:22 |
| henrynash | bknudson1, young: so I assume what has to happen is that they DO need change the command lines to get the new bits of auth info | 18:23 |
| dolphm_ | ayoung: bring up what, exactly? | 18:23 |
| rcrit | or one passes the parser to keystone, it adds the available auth options, and returns it | 18:23 |
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| henrynash | …but that they should be using the v2/client or access objects from keystone client….and they need to upgrade to using v3 | 18:23 |
| bknudson1 | henrynash: they need to change, but should they be re-architected so that they get the options from keystoneclient | 18:23 |
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| ayoung | dolphm_, in order to do Kerberos or X509 client auth as part of, say, nova, we need to modify their CLIs. They should be consuming Keystone client to do that. | 18:23 |
| ayoung | It will take a cross-project effort | 18:24 |
| henrynash | bknudson1: oh, you want them to reuse keystone client to get the cli parameters as well (not just pass them to a keystone auth class)? | 18:24 |
| dolphm_ | ayoung: until keystoneclient has a way to *allow* other clients to consume options and stuff from us, there's nothing to bring up | 18:24 |
| ayoung | You can always do an explicit keystone token-get and pass that to the other CLIs. | 18:24 |
| dolphm_ | henrynash: yeah, that's been on the community wishlist for a long time | 18:24 |
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| bknudson1 | ayoung: good suggestion | 18:25 |
| ayoung | Is there a blueprint? | 18:25 |
| bknudson1 | ayoung: I think Jamie Lennox recently started a bp | 18:25 |
| ayoung | bknudson1, heh, I meant for the common command line stuff | 18:26 |
| dolphm_ | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/python-keystoneclient/+spec/consolidate-cli-auth | 18:26 |
| dolphm_ | openstackclient might have something documented | 18:26 |
| bknudson1 | dolphm_: ayoung: yes, that one. | 18:26 |
| henrynash | I'm concerned if we need to wait for parameter re-use before we get Grizzly features into the other cli clients | 18:26 |
| ayoung | dolphm_, so, if we do this, it is not going to be released on the Havana schedule anyway. Is there any specific time gate to hit, or is it just "done when it is done"? | 18:27 |
| dolphm_ | ayoung: clients are not held to the 6 month schedule | 18:27 |
| ayoung | dolphm_, right, and they don't have their own schedule, either, right? | 18:27 |
| dolphm_ | ayoung: we've done at least two releases since grizzly shipped, for example, and i'd like to do another in the next week or two | 18:27 |
| dolphm_ | ayoung: no | 18:28 |
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| ayoung | OK, so once we get something reasonable into Keystone, we can start working with one project at a time to get them up to speed on it | 18:28 |
| dolphm_ | ayoung: ++ | 18:28 |
| henrynash | dolphm_, ayoung: you mean, once we have v3 auth in keystone client….? | 18:28 |
| ayoung | henrynash, that, too | 18:29 |
| bknudson1 | some of this could be done in parallel. | 18:29 |
| dolphm_ | henrynash: yeah, i'd like to release keystoneclient 0.3.0 when that happens | 18:29 |
| henrynash | dolphm_: ++ | 18:29 |
| bknudson1 | keystoneclient could provide the cli options and we add v3 when ready | 18:29 |
| ayoung | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/21942/ | 18:29 |
| ayoung | Is that sufficient? | 18:29 |
| dolphm_ | ayoung: i haven't done a full review, but yes.. when that merges and no one screams, i'll tag v0.3.0 | 18:30 |
| henrynash | dolphm_,a young: then I would suggest novaclient and glanceclient in that order | 18:30 |
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| bknudson1 | I'm thinking we can merge 21942... I haven't looked at it since my last comment. | 18:30 |
| ayoung | So if we make this work for Keystone client, we probably should do the work for Glance and Nova in parallel, to make sure that the code is organized to support them for Kerberso, etc. | 18:30 |
| ayoung | Ready to move on, then? | 18:31 |
| dolphm_ | bknudson1: to review that change, i'm just going to write something like sample_data.sh in python based on the v3 api | 18:31 |
| ayoung | dolphm_, +1 | 18:31 |
| topol | yay v3 samples | 18:32 |
| ayoung | #topic Using CADF for notification framework | 18:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Using CADF for notification framework (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:32 | |
| dolphm_ | ayoung: i'd pick a single client to pick on integrating with first, and then once that merges, you can point all the other client contributors back to it and say "we want to do this to your client next" | 18:32 |
| bknudson1 | dolphm_: I'll take a quick look at it again, too. | 18:32 |
| ayoung | dolphm_, sounds good | 18:32 |
| topol | +1 on CADF | 18:32 |
| lbragstad | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Ceilometer/blueprints/support-standard-audit-formats#Provide_support_for_auditing_events_in_standardized_formats | 18:33 |
| mrutkows | Hi, Matt Rutkowski here as bp submitter if there are any questions | 18:33 |
| ayoung | mrutkows, what will the impact be on Keystone? | 18:33 |
| bknudson1 | so since we're looking at implementing notifications, seemed useful to have a standard format for the messages (e.g., CADF) | 18:33 |
| ayoung | The wonderful thing about standards... | 18:34 |
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| mrutkows | in the ref. blueprint, our Havana goal was to establish a notification path thru Ceilometer that would allow us to audit any openstack component's APIs, starting with Nova, but after connecting with Henry, Brant and Lance we see that our work could be used beyond just the Nova component... | 18:34 |
| lbragstad | whcih would mean more oslo-incubator work | 18:34 |
| mrutkows | We understand that our filter would have to work with keystone as it has other things that may need to be logged | 18:35 |
| ayoung | mrutkows, so the primary thing I can think of that should be common is audit logging the policy layer | 18:35 |
| ayoung | I assume that would be done in common | 18:35 |
| mrutkows | ayoung, yes our goal would be to take the audit filter to common | 18:35 |
| ayoung | for notifications like we are talking about in Keystone, where we want to tell other services that a project has been deactivated, does it apply? | 18:36 |
| mrutkows | as soon as we veryf it works with keystone APIs | 18:36 |
| ayoung | mrutkows, so, what would have to change in Keystone? | 18:36 |
| mrutkows | ayoung, yes, in fact it was our hope to log/audit keystone / security events | 18:36 |
| henrynash | ayoung, mrutkows: think you are talking at cross purposes on "common", I think young meant you modify the openstack/common/policy engine to log those events | 18:37 |
| topol | mrutkows, CADF just provides a common fomat. What does the actual notifying? ceilometer? | 18:37 |
| dolphm_ | topol: +1 | 18:37 |
| mrutkows | ayoung, I need to work with Brant and Lance, but as long as we can remain a common middleware filter/notifier, hopefully nothing will need to change | 18:37 |
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| ayoung | topol, I would think it would be "put a message in this format onto a specific queue" from Keystone's perspectiv | 18:38 |
| lbragstad | wouldn't the notifier have to be implemented in each project from oslo-incubator? | 18:38 |
| mrutkows | the CADF format is coded under Ceilometer and the audit middleware filter uses it and has an established "audit" message type | 18:38 |
| dolphm_ | i'm confused on if this is a solution to supersede bp notifications or not | 18:38 |
| ayoung | mrutkows, please come up with a non-eventlet based approach. | 18:38 |
| dolphm_ | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/notifications | 18:38 |
| bknudson1 | dolphm_: I don't think it's superceding, it's picking the format for the notifications | 18:39 |
| dolphm_ | or if this is just a desired format for notifications | 18:39 |
| mrutkows | dolph, it is a normative standard format | 18:39 |
| bknudson1 | because the blueprint doesn't specify a format | 18:39 |
| mrutkows | that other cloud providers or companies can also use | 18:39 |
| dolphm_ | fair enough, but bp notifications currently blocked and won't land in havana, so what's the goal for discussion today? | 18:40 |
| ayoung | I think what I am concerned about is populating the fields of the log message. If all of that can be deduced from a simple LOG.error, fine. Need to parse that spec to see if the places we need to log will need to provide additional info and where that info comes from | 18:40 |
| ayoung | mrutkows, in your experience, how hard is it to come up with the data for a log point? | 18:40 |
| ayoung | notification point | 18:40 |
| topol | mrutkows, so what folks are trying to figure out is do they still have to use some queue capability and all you provide is a std format or do they leverare ceilometer to get the queue capability | 18:40 |
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| mrutkows | ayoung, happy to have a side call to review what CADF has in it | 18:40 |
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| mrutkows | it is extensible | 18:41 |
| topol | comes down to what can celilomter provide us infrastrcuture wise | 18:41 |
| ayoung | mrutkows, is is simple | 18:41 |
| ayoung | topol, look at the link | 18:41 |
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| ayoung | What, when, Who, OnWhat, Where, FromWhere, ToWhere. | 18:41 |
| gyee | there | 18:41 |
| ayoung | I'm less worried about extending it as making is simple to fill out that data | 18:42 |
| mrutkows | it was designed by security architects from many companies to be ISO/NIST audit compliant | 18:42 |
| ayoung | mrutkows, so a simple "how to guide" for that will be helpful. | 18:42 |
| mrutkows | along with other audit frameworks | 18:42 |
| dolphm_ | topol: ++ | 18:42 |
| mrutkows | ayoung, +100, need time... | 18:42 |
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| topol | ayoung, just did. It mentions leveraging CADF. +1 on that. I was curious if ceilometer plays a role here or not. looks like no | 18:42 |
| mrutkows | my daughter gets married this weekend so am out for a week or so | 18:43 |
| ayoung | topol, more likely Keystone produce events, and ceilometer plays middleman. | 18:43 |
| ayoung | Mazel Tov | 18:43 |
| topol | mrutkows, congrats | 18:43 |
| mrutkows | ayoung, agree, the api path can be a good start | 18:43 |
| gordc | ayoung, yep, ceilometer will just listen for the event notifications similar to how it does with other projects. | 18:43 |
| topol | ayoung, agreed! | 18:44 |
| mrutkows | and the notifier can be called apart from the filter | 18:44 |
| ayoung | Ok...good stuff. Moving on | 18:44 |
| topol | do we have a BP thats shows how everything fits together? | 18:44 |
| ayoung | #topic Gyee's patch | 18:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Gyee's patch (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:44 | |
| ayoung | yes, I am taking liberties, but we are running out of time | 18:44 |
| ayoung | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29021/ | 18:44 |
| gyee | ayoung, the pluggable token one? sure I can break it up if you guys can't review that much code | 18:45 |
| ayoung | This is, I think, pretty important to get in, but I have concerns about its, let say "reviewability" | 18:45 |
| gyee | just have had the time the last few days | 18:45 |
| gyee | haven't | 18:45 |
| ayoung | of course | 18:45 |
| gyee | whatever make you happy boss :) | 18:45 |
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| bknudson1 | gyee: I started looking at it but it's hard to get enough time to get through it all. | 18:46 |
| ayoung | gyee, so aside from any bug fixes that slipped in there, like the JSON policy one that can be split out stand alone | 18:46 |
| gyee | bknudson1, I can break it up into chunks as ayoung suggested | 18:46 |
| ayoung | I'd like to see the reordering that does no functionality change as a stand alone | 18:46 |
| ayoung | Does't really matter the size so long as we can say "It should behave the same before as after" | 18:46 |
| gyee | ayoung, yeah, I will have to get the dependencies correct | 18:47 |
| gyee | like v2 changes depends on v3 changes, etc | 18:47 |
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| ayoung | gyee, sounds good. | 18:48 |
| gyee | ayoung, thanks for bring it up | 18:48 |
| ayoung | gyee, I know jamielennox looked at it, in the context again of the Kerberos stuff, trying to make sure we only have to get it "right" at one point | 18:48 |
| ayoung | #topic Get /catalog behaviour in opt-out of service catalog blueprint | 18:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Get /catalog behaviour in opt-out of service catalog blueprint (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:49 | |
| ayoung | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/catalog-optional | 18:49 |
| dolphm_ | (i think i answered this one in the bp?) | 18:49 |
| gyee | is everybody OK with requiring token for GET /catalog? | 18:49 |
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| gyee | sounds like an easy decision | 18:49 |
| ayoung | assigned to guang yee, but I suspect you do not have bandwith for it | 18:49 |
| ayoung | can someone else p[ick it up? topol? | 18:49 |
| [1]fabio | I am already working on it | 18:50 |
| gyee | I know simo was having some concern last week about requiring token for GET /catalog | 18:50 |
| topol | ayoung, what needs picked up? | 18:50 |
| ayoung | topol, you too slow | 18:50 |
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| gyee | ayoung, fabio is working on it | 18:50 |
| ayoung | [1]fabio, status? | 18:50 |
| topol | indeed | 18:50 |
| gyee | I think he should have a review ready this week | 18:50 |
| [1]fabio | I have implemented the part that removes the catalog from the token request | 18:50 |
| [1]fabio | and I asked clarifications for the get /catalog part | 18:51 |
| [1]fabio | so now that we have consensus I will continue | 18:51 |
| ayoung | what is your launchpad id [1]fabio ? | 18:51 |
| [1]fabio | hopefully get something by next meeting | 18:51 |
| dolphm_ | cool | 18:52 |
| ayoung | I'll update the BP | 18:52 |
| ayoung | #topic High priority code reviews | 18:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "High priority code reviews (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:52 | |
| ayoung | Role assignment API w/ inheritance | 18:52 |
| henrynash | OK | 18:52 |
| ayoung | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29781/ | 18:52 |
| dolphm_ | (i'd like to make this a permanent feature on the meeting agenda, btw) | 18:52 |
| gyee | +1 | 18:53 |
| atiwari | not a bad idea | 18:53 |
| [1]fabio | ayoung: my full name in launch pad is Fabio Giannetti | 18:53 |
| bknudson1 | is this just a list of reviews to look at? | 18:53 |
| ayoung | OK, so this one is getting attention. Anything more need to be said? | 18:53 |
| henrynash | so as everyone (should) know, this bp is the "stepping stone" one…assuming we can't get the whole "role assignment as a 1st class entity)_ in in time | 18:54 |
| gyee | henrynash, I am fine with implementing the proposed APIs as extension for now and revisit role-assignment in icehouse | 18:54 |
| atiwari | gyee +1 | 18:54 |
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| [1]fabio | gyee +1 | 18:54 |
| henrynash | however, while this one might be ok as an extension, the other one probably should be core | 18:54 |
| ayoung | [1]fabio, you are officialy on the hook! | 18:54 |
| ayoung | henrynash, the other one being... | 18:55 |
| [1]fabio | ayoung: Ok, thanks :-) | 18:55 |
| atiwari | yes, I think that one is aling with role-assignment | 18:55 |
| henrynash | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/32394/ | 18:55 |
| henrynash | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/32394/ | 18:55 |
| henrynash | this is a replacement api for the two broken ones | 18:55 |
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| henrynash | …to find out what role assignments a user/project/domain has | 18:56 |
| gyee | henrynash, +1 on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/32394/ | 18:56 |
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| ayoung | OK, will look at both of them. 4 minutes remainint | 18:56 |
| henrynash | This should be core, I think, (agreed the inheritance bit would only be active with the extesinsion) | 18:56 |
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| gyee | that one is very useful | 18:56 |
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| atiwari | henrynash +1 | 18:57 |
| ayoung | #topic Open discussion | 18:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:57 | |
| bknudson1 | Does the keystone server advertise its version? | 18:57 |
| gyee | henrynash, role-assignment or role_assignment? | 18:57 |
| ayoung | bknudson1, yes | 18:57 |
| gyee | dash or underscore | 18:57 |
| bknudson1 | so that a user knows that /role-assignments is available? | 18:57 |
| ayoung | you can get the versions from the / url | 18:57 |
| henrynash | gyee: hmm, good point | 18:58 |
| ayoung | well, the version of the APIs that it supports | 18:58 |
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| bknudson1 | so it'll say 3.1 in H? | 18:58 |
| mordred | so - weird 'bug' for you guys that I haven't really been able to sort out | 18:58 |
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| dolphm_ | bknudson1: yes, GET / | 18:58 |
| mordred | apparently, attempting to run keystone unittests via tox on a devstack node fails | 18:58 |
| henrynash | gyeeL your view? | 18:58 |
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| mordred | that makes NO SENSE of course | 18:58 |
| dolphm_ | gyee: dashes | 18:58 |
| henrynash | dolphm_, gyee: ok | 18:58 |
| mordred | but I figured I'd toss it you guys' way in case anyone gets bored | 18:59 |
| ayoung | mordred, I'll look after the meeting | 18:59 |
| gyee | dolphm_, ok that's fine, just want to make sure | 18:59 |
| mordred | ayoung: I can come up with zero reasons why it should matter | 18:59 |
| bknudson1 | mordred: what fails? | 18:59 |
| ayoung | mordred, its code, not magic. Much as they may appear similar | 18:59 |
| gyee | mordred, which bug? | 18:59 |
| dolphm_ | mordred: details? | 18:59 |
| henrynash | gyee, dolphm_: ok, i;ll redraft both of those bps with the extension in mind for inheritance and the GEt role-assignments in core | 18:59 |
| bknudson1 | fetching the old clients? that's a weird thing keystone does. | 19:00 |
| ayoung | BTW, I need a re-review of the LDAP Shim b gone patch, as I had to reduce it a little in scope upon rebase | 19:00 |
| mordred | dolphm_, bknudson1, ayoung, gyee: anteaya ran in to it | 19:00 |
| gyee | henrynash, sounds good | 19:00 |
| atiwari | how about /roleAssignment | 19:00 |
| mordred | and I dont think it fails anywhere obviously like fetchin gthings | 19:00 |
| ayoung | henrynash, bknudson1 gyee dolphm_, can you take a look | 19:00 |
| atiwari | no dash no underscore | 19:00 |
| dolphm_ | https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1191999 ? | 19:00 |
| anteaya | o/ | 19:00 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1191999 in keystone "unittests should not require internet access" [Undecided,New] | 19:00 |
| mordred | anteaya: have you filed a keystone bug about the test failures? | 19:00 |
| ayoung | ah, henrynash alread -1ed. Cool | 19:00 |
| ayoung | OK, times up | 19:00 |
| dolphm_ | atiwari: no | 19:00 |
| ayoung | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| lbragstad | thanks all | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 18 19:00:47 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-06-18-17.59.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-06-18-17.59.txt | 19:00 |
| bknudson1 | "unit tests should not require internet access" | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-06-18-17.59.log.html | 19:00 |
| anteaya | no, I wasn't sure how to approach it, how should I approach it? | 19:00 |
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| mordred | anteaya: go bug dolphm_ and ayoung in #openstack-dev to follow up real quick and see what they'd like from you | 19:01 |
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| anteaya | can do | 19:01 |
| clarkb | infra o/ | 19:01 |
| fungi | yo | 19:01 |
| mordred | o/ | 19:01 |
| jeblair | | | 19:01 |
| olaph | \ | 19:02 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:02 |
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| mordred | % | 19:02 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:02 |
| dprince | hey | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 18 19:02:16 2013 UTC. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #topic Rename of the project formerly known as mutnuaq (mordred) | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rename of the project formerly known as mutnuaq (mordred) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
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| mordred | oh wow. I'm first | 19:02 |
| mordred | markmcclain: around yet? | 19:02 |
| mordred | so - mutnuaq has gotten names back from legal | 19:03 |
| jeblair | (the only action from last meeting has a this-meeting agenda item) | 19:03 |
| mordred | nice | 19:03 |
| mordred | and we _believe_ they've picked a name | 19:03 |
| jeblair | yay | 19:03 |
| mordred | which means - | 19:03 |
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| mordred | drumroll | 19:03 |
| mordred | now we actually have to rename it | 19:03 |
| jeblair | oh man | 19:03 |
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| mordred | which, being mutnuaq, means it's WAY more complex than any rename we've ever done | 19:03 |
| jlk | o/ | 19:03 |
| mordred | because things consume it | 19:03 |
| jlk | forgot to waive earlier. | 19:03 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 19:04 |
| * mordred waves at jlk | 19:04 | |
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| mordred | markmcclain: how solid are we on that provisional name choice? | 19:04 |
| markmcclain | 98% | 19:04 |
| mordred | that's so much closer than we were before | 19:04 |
| mordred | I think the first step is to do renames in the repos with compatibility packages | 19:05 |
| fungi | how ingrained is the old name beyond that project/client and devstack{,-gate} and infra/config? is it deeply embedded in other projects? | 19:05 |
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| mordred | fungi: nova consumes quantumclient at least | 19:05 |
| fungi | joyous | 19:05 |
| mordred | yeah | 19:05 |
| clarkb | mordred: can we just depend on both? | 19:05 |
| mordred | well, the working idea | 19:05 |
| clarkb | then after the switch remove the old name? | 19:05 |
| mordred | is in the current repos | 19:05 |
| markmcclain | nova is the big one.. I need to look over ceilometer and heat to double check | 19:06 |
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| mordred | add do the package rename and then add a new package in the same repo | 19:06 |
| mordred | that does a bunch of from newname import * | 19:06 |
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| mordred | in its __init__.py files | 19:06 |
| sdague | grep -r 'quantum' nova | grep '\.py:' | wc -l | 19:06 |
| sdague | 1798 | 19:06 |
| sdague | just to get an idea of how much that name is in nova | 19:06 |
| mordred | so that then the dependent projects can start working on getting their renames done | 19:06 |
| fungi | gah | 19:07 |
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| jlk | that's going to be fun | 19:07 |
| mordred | yup | 19:07 |
| jlk | good opportunity for upstream commits :) | 19:07 |
| mordred | jlk: hehe | 19:07 |
| mordred | then we'll need to schedule a gerrit renaming downtime | 19:07 |
| sdague | please tell me it's 7 characters? | 19:07 |
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| * markmcclain counts | 19:07 | |
| markmcclain | yep | 19:07 |
| sdague | so we aren't in pep8 | 19:07 |
| sdague | hell | 19:07 |
| sdague | well, that's something :) | 19:08 |
| mordred | sort order might change slightly for hacking hell | 19:08 |
| fungi | grep -c ^.......$ /usr/share/dict/words | 19:08 |
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| mordred | question is - | 19:08 |
| sdague | yeh, the imports will be one thing, at least it won't require massive reformatting though | 19:08 |
| mordred | do we try to make devstack and destack-gate attempt to clone from both names? | 19:08 |
| jlk | oh yeah that would suck | 19:08 |
| mordred | or do we force-push changes to those when we do the rename? | 19:08 |
| jeblair | mordred: i'd rather force-push those changes | 19:09 |
| * mordred too | 19:09 | |
| clarkb | it creates a definitive switch point which is nice | 19:09 |
| mordred | I think the in-python trickery with double package names is enough trickery for one rename | 19:09 |
| clarkb | and is simpler if you can live with a potentially broken gate over the shrot term | 19:09 |
| fungi | i think that is the least complicated, even if it does mean possible breakage and subsequent manual patching to get going again | 19:09 |
| mordred | I'm assuming we shoudl schedule a non-trivial downtime - like, an assumption the gate may be down for a couple of hours while we sort it and make sure it's good to move forward | 19:10 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:10 |
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| mordred | BUT - I think we want the in-code renaming to be finished first, yeah? | 19:10 |
| fungi | i suspect a couple hours is probably being optimistic | 19:10 |
| jeblair | and it would be good to have markmcclain and some core devs from other projects around to help during the maint window | 19:10 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yes | 19:11 |
| markmcclain | let me know when I'll be around | 19:11 |
| jeblair | fungi: it's true that our test cycle is an hour, so it could take a while. | 19:11 |
| fungi | any project we might conceivably have to cram patches into should probably have representatives awake and responding | 19:11 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:12 |
| jeblair | mordred: i think that's a sensible way to proceed (code rename first) | 19:12 |
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| jeblair | mordred: i'm not sure it's necessary from a gating standpoint, but probably makes the most sense overall. | 19:12 |
| mordred | cool. so, markmcclain will come back to us when the code-level rename is done and we're ready to move forward with repo+devstack+devstack-gate rename? | 19:12 |
| mordred | jeblair: yeah. I mean, I'ts just one less thign to do that day | 19:13 |
| mordred | or, yeah, no, you're right | 19:13 |
| mordred | it could go in either order | 19:13 |
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| jeblair | mordred: but this way we won't ever produce a newthing tarball that only contains quantum | 19:13 |
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| jeblair | mordred: we'll be making quantum tarballs that are future-compat with newthing, and newthing tarballs that are backwards compat with quantum | 19:14 |
| jeblair | which seems nicer | 19:14 |
| jeblair | and possibly able to accomadet problems we're not anticpating. :) | 19:14 |
| mordred | yeah | 19:14 |
| mordred | +100 | 19:14 |
| mordred | this is going to be a fun one | 19:14 |
| jeblair | mordred: eot? | 19:15 |
| mordred | I think that's all I had, yeah | 19:15 |
| jeblair | yay a plan! | 19:15 |
| jeblair | #action markmcclain will come back to us when the code-level rename is done and we're ready to move forward with repo+devstack+devstack-gate rename | 19:15 |
| jeblair | #topic Asterisk (jeblair, reed) | 19:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Asterisk (jeblair, reed) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:16 | |
| jeblair | i don't think reed can make the meeting | 19:16 |
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| jeblair | but i think he's becomming more keen on having an asterisk server | 19:16 |
| fungi | he did seen rather cool with the idea | 19:16 |
| fungi | er, seem | 19:16 |
| jeblair | for: (a) user-group remote participation | 19:16 |
| jeblair | (b) summit remote participation | 19:17 |
| jeblair | (c) foundationy things | 19:17 |
| jeblair | (the usual conf call sorts of things -- a conference call resource like the eclipse foundation has) | 19:17 |
| fungi | so... what was the scale of conference call you were on with eclipse foundation folks? tens? hundreds? | 19:17 |
| jeblair | fungi: tens | 19:17 |
| mordred | tens | 19:17 |
| jlk | oh we've done that before in Fedora infrastructure | 19:17 |
| jlk | (ran an Asterisk server) | 19:17 |
| jlk | it had very low participation | 19:17 |
| mordred | but it was SO CLEAR | 19:17 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I could even see it being useful when freenode is having a hard time :) | 19:18 |
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| fungi | clarkb: that's what oftc is for ;) | 19:18 |
| mordred | jlk: did you have regular conference calls and people chose to use something else? | 19:18 |
| mordred | jlk: or just people didn't care to make voice calls? | 19:18 |
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| jlk | mordred: people didn't care to make voice calls | 19:19 |
| jlk | and there were a lot of codec and mute and echo problems | 19:19 |
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| jeblair | so maybe we should send an email to the infra list and see if folks want to chime in on setting one up? | 19:20 |
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| jlk | While not OSS, at work we use Team Speak. Seems to be much better voice quality, and push to talk was pretty important | 19:21 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ++ I have a feeling that folks like pabelanger would be interested | 19:21 |
| clarkb | and I think there are many of us that don't have the bandwidth for that right now | 19:21 |
| mordred | jlk: jeblair and I were on a call with eclpse foundation the other day | 19:21 |
| mordred | jlk: and it was literally the clearest conference call I've ever been on | 19:21 |
| jlk | heh | 19:21 |
| fungi | for use cases a and b this is basically conference/speaker phone allowing remote participation with the in-room conversations, and in a way that is less bandwidth-intensive and nonfree/proprietary than g* hangouts | 19:21 |
| jlk | yeah it can be awesome | 19:21 |
| jeblair | it was beatiful | 19:21 |
| mordred | SO much better than HP's conference call system | 19:21 |
| jlk | this was a few years ago though, so some of these problems may be better | 19:21 |
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| jlk | Also, the VOIP client set may be better these days. Back then on Linux it wasn't a great set of choices | 19:22 |
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| jlk | and communicating the settings for those clients was … fun. That all said, all this could be better, I'm not going to be a Debbie Downer ;) | 19:23 |
| fungi | my voice client of choice is a telephone anyway | 19:23 |
| mordred | yeah. I was dialed in to the asterisk server with my cell phone | 19:23 |
| fungi | but understood that voip software is a nice addition | 19:23 |
| jeblair | jlk: yeah, and i think with webrtc, we can have an in-browser client | 19:24 |
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| jeblair | jlk: which i think will be especially good for the remote-listening case. | 19:24 |
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| jeblair | mordred: i was dialed in on a SIP phone through my asterisk server over POTS :) | 19:25 |
| mordred | nice | 19:25 |
| jeblair | mordred: but that's just because i didn't notice their SIP url until right before the call. | 19:26 |
| * mordred imagines opening iax ports for jeblair's asterisk server so we can all get to him by dialing a special extension on the foundation server | 19:26 | |
| fungi | okay, so basically we bug pabelanger and... who else? was Ryan_Lane the other person expressing interest in helping with it? | 19:26 |
| jeblair | fungi: russellb was | 19:26 |
| fungi | right! | 19:26 |
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| * fungi recalibrates his branes | 19:27 | |
| jeblair | i asked the eclipse folks about their voip provider, so i have their recommendations there | 19:27 |
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| mordred | awesome | 19:27 |
| mordred | because their provider was great | 19:27 |
| jeblair | yeah, there are a lot of bad ones out there, so having a good one to start with should be a huge benefit | 19:28 |
| russellb | yep, happy to help with some asterisk config | 19:28 |
| russellb | at least manual config ... i would be a n00b at puppetizing it | 19:28 |
| jeblair | woo! | 19:28 |
| jeblair | perhaps pabelanger has some puppet laying around | 19:28 |
| russellb | he does | 19:28 |
| fungi | russellb: i think pabelanger said he already had soe | 19:28 |
| fungi | some | 19:28 |
| jlk | Fedora project probably still has some puppet laying around in a git repo somewhere too | 19:28 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair start a ml thread about asterisk | 19:28 |
| jlk | ages old | 19:29 |
| jeblair | jlk: if you can find that, i'd love to see it | 19:29 |
| fungi | jlk: awesome! we use ages old puppet ;) | 19:29 |
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| russellb | and if there's anyone really keen on learning asterisk, i can hook you up with a PDF of the book | 19:29 |
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| russellb | just msg me | 19:29 |
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| jeblair | russellb: thanks! | 19:30 |
| jeblair | #topic Progress on reviewing git web interfaces (pleia2) | 19:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Progress on reviewing git web interfaces (pleia2) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:30 | |
| jeblair | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ci/+bug/1182179 | 19:30 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1182179 in openstack-ci "Create a git.openstack.org mirror system" [Low,Triaged] | 19:30 |
| pleia2 | right, so last week we talked about evaluating some git web things | 19:31 |
| pleia2 | I took some notes here: | 19:31 |
| pleia2 | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/git-1182179 | 19:31 |
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| pleia2 | I think we don't want gitlab, it has all kinds of stuff we really don't need, pretty much tries to be an open source github | 19:31 |
| pleia2 | which leaves us with cgit, gitblit or just same old gitweb | 19:32 |
| jlk | not gitweb | 19:32 |
| pleia2 | so my question is - what is it we want exactly that gitweb is failing us with? | 19:32 |
| jlk | cgit has been the better performing tool | 19:32 |
| jlk | with Fedora repos, gitweb would just stall out and crash servers | 19:32 |
| pleia2 | ouch | 19:32 |
| pleia2 | cgit is very compelling, but I don't know if it lacks features people want | 19:33 |
| mordred | does cgit work now without libgit? | 19:33 |
| mordred | like, wasn't there a time where it was impossible to package because it used non-supported git internal apis? | 19:33 |
| jlk | good question | 19:33 |
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| jeblair | i added https://git.kernel.org/cgit/ to the etherpad as a demo for cgit | 19:33 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: thanks | 19:33 |
| * mordred believes that's the reason we did not switch to cgit when the guy from libreoffice suggested it a while back | 19:34 | |
| pleia2 | mordred: I don't know | 19:34 |
| mordred | I like the cgit index page, btw | 19:34 |
| jlk | http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/ | 19:34 |
| jlk | that's Fedora's | 19:34 |
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| mordred | it's not in ubuntu | 19:34 |
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| jeblair | ooh it's prettier | 19:34 |
| jlk | Fedora switched it it in…. 2011 or so | 19:34 |
| jeblair | (fedora's cgit) | 19:34 |
| jeblair | though i don't know why there are a bunch of numbers at the bottom | 19:35 |
| pleia2 | gitblit isn't packaged either, so I think either one will have challenges (though we do have WMF folks to poke about gitblit, since they use it) | 19:35 |
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| jeblair | oh those are pages. | 19:35 |
| jlk | Fedora has it in Fedora releases and CentOS | 19:35 |
| jlk | er | 19:35 |
| jlk | EPEL | 19:35 |
| clarkb | we could potentially use centos + epel then | 19:35 |
| dprince | we almost have Fedora slaves *in the mix*. | 19:35 |
| mordred | good point | 19:35 |
| dprince | Just one postgres module issue that I know off but that wouldn't effect this... | 19:36 |
| jlk | I don't see any libgit deps here http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/rpminfo?rpmID=4034369 | 19:36 |
| mordred | I'm ok with using it if there are packages from someone | 19:36 |
| jeblair | http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=515793 | 19:36 |
| uvirtbot | Debian bug 515793 in wnpp "RFP: cgit -- C-code Web Front-end to GIT" [Wishlist,Open] | 19:36 |
| jlk | then again, I don't see any requirements on git itself either. wat | 19:36 |
| mordred | I do like the org groupings in the kernel.org index page | 19:36 |
| mordred | yeah. looks like the outstanding issue is the "this requires git internals to work" one | 19:37 |
| jeblair | mordred: reading down to the end, i think they're okay with creating a cgit package from the git source, but there's no volunteer to mantain it. :( | 19:38 |
| mordred | yah | 19:38 |
| mordred | I seem to remember this is where we stalled last time | 19:38 |
| jlk | I would just suggest using the EPEL packages | 19:39 |
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| jlk | since that's what Fedora is doing, shared interest in keeping them working. | 19:39 |
| jlk | also likely what kernel.org is doing | 19:39 |
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| mordred | yeah. I mean, we at least know there are other folks looking at it | 19:40 |
| jeblair | https://git.wikimedia.org/activity/ | 19:40 |
| * fungi wonders if red hat are bundling a private copy of libgit in the package | 19:40 | |
| mordred | ooh | 19:40 |
| jlk | fungi: I doubt it | 19:40 |
| jlk | we're pretty uptight about that kind of thing | 19:41 |
| jlk | but you can easily clone and find out! | 19:41 |
| mordred | I mean, gitblit does have going for it that wikimedia run it too, and all the rest of our stuff is identical | 19:41 |
| pleia2 | mordred: yeah | 19:41 |
| fungi | gitblit does have a lot of sparkle, for sure | 19:41 |
| clarkb | mordred: also lucene but that may not be useable without a lot fo work | 19:41 |
| jeblair | rss feeds | 19:41 |
| jlk | or rather browse http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/cgit.git/ | 19:41 |
| fungi | heh | 19:42 |
| jlk | oh geez | 19:42 |
| jeblair | my inclination is to use cgit unless we feel we really need something gitblit provides | 19:42 |
| jlk | welp, I'm wrong | 19:42 |
| jlk | that spec has both the git source and the cgit source | 19:42 |
| jlk | and it uses both to build the package. | 19:42 |
| fungi | looks like... yeah | 19:42 |
| pleia2 | we spoke with Ryan_Lane and ^demon about some of their gitblit problems and it didn't sound very pleasant | 19:42 |
| pleia2 | re: searching, lucene | 19:43 |
| jeblair | i doubt the activity stats will be compelling for us since we have at least 3 entire programs around trying to get meaningful stats | 19:43 |
| jeblair | and we have an rss feed thing too. | 19:43 |
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| mordred | jeblair: I thnk we're up to 4 stats programs now | 19:44 |
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| jeblair | i think the most likely thing from gitblit we'd be interested in using is the searching. | 19:44 |
| pleia2 | heh | 19:44 |
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| mordred | 5. I count five | 19:44 |
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| jeblair | and it doesn't sound like we're actually interested in dealing with those problems right now. :) | 19:44 |
| fungi | always room for a sixth! (seventh? eighth?!?) | 19:44 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 19:44 |
| jeblair | so maybe lets focus on cgit then? | 19:44 |
| pleia2 | fixing search is something ^demon at WMF is looking at, but it's low on his priority list | 19:44 |
| fungi | yeah i'm leaning toward cgit as well, based on the options | 19:44 |
| mordred | fungi: don't make too many jokes, I know of an unannounced sixth | 19:44 |
| mordred | fungi, jeblair: ++ | 19:44 |
| mordred | cgit on centos/fedora then? | 19:45 |
| pleia2 | I can spin up cgit on a centos hpcloud instance to test how it goes | 19:45 |
| clarkb | cgit on centos/fedora sounds fine to me (with a preference for centos) | 19:45 |
| fungi | that sounds reasonable. we can already use the launch script to do centos with no further tweaking | 19:45 |
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| fungi | since we build centos unit test slaves with it now | 19:46 |
| pleia2 | fungi: ah, coolo | 19:46 |
| pleia2 | -o | 19:46 |
| jlk | I've already stated my opinion, but I'll state it again, cgit on centos is where I'd go. | 19:46 |
| pleia2 | thanks jlk | 19:46 |
| mordred | jlk: looks like you won this time | 19:47 |
| jeblair | sounds good to me | 19:47 |
| jlk | crap, now you're going to make me do it aren't you? | 19:47 |
| fungi | curses. and gitweb would have gotten away with it too if it weren't from you meddling kids | 19:47 |
| pleia2 | haha ++ | 19:47 |
| pleia2 | ok, how do we want to action this forward? | 19:47 |
| * fungi can't type. sigh | 19:47 | |
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| jeblair | pleia2: do you want to continue working on it? work with jlk? give the whole project to jlk? :) | 19:48 |
| fungi | pleia2: i would suggest getting a skeleton for the server in puppet and i'll be happy to spin up a vm for that | 19:48 |
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| jeblair | i think the next step is to merge a change that defines the host, then we spin it up, then we reconfig gerrit to replicate there | 19:48 |
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| jeblair | as fungi said. :) | 19:48 |
| pleia2 | ok, I'll get it rolling and ask jlk for help :) | 19:49 |
| jeblair | awesome | 19:49 |
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| jlk | yup, I'll lend whatever hand I can | 19:50 |
| fungi | the gerrit replication part is fairly trivial. we'll also want some fancy rewrites on review.o.o to punch its gitweb links that direction | 19:50 |
| jlk | which may mostly be asking my Fedora contacts how they did whatever. | 19:50 |
| jeblair | #action pleia2, jlk make git.openstack.org exist | 19:50 |
| clarkb | fungi: I think you can do that in the gerrit config too | 19:50 |
| pleia2 | jlk: great, thank you | 19:50 |
| fungi | oh, even better | 19:50 |
| jeblair | clarkb, fungi: yeah, we'll have gerrit just link there directly | 19:50 |
| mordred | yup | 19:50 |
| fungi | as long as it's flexible enough to be able to build the urls cgit expects, sounds ideal | 19:51 |
| fungi | or other way around (cgit smart enough to handle gitweb queries) | 19:51 |
| mordred | jeblair: do you know if it's possible to make gerrit's fetch links redirect there too? | 19:51 |
| mordred | jeblair: would be neat if the fetch/pull/cherry-pick stuff gave people git.o.o links | 19:52 |
| jeblair | https://review.openstack.org/Documentation/config-gitweb.html | 19:52 |
| jeblair | mordred: i don't know, but that may be overkill | 19:52 |
| jeblair | mordred: i doubt they get used all that often | 19:53 |
| jeblair | #topic open discussion | 19:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:54 | |
| fungi | i know i only use them when i want to check out a change on a machine where i don't have git-review | 19:54 |
| fungi | but maybe there are lots of people who don't use git-review or don't know about its -d option | 19:54 |
| clarkb | logstash.opensatck.org is now reverse proxying a subset of the elasticsearch API so that sdague (and hopefully others) can do programmatic search queries | 19:54 |
| sdague | cool | 19:54 |
| jeblair | hey, so zuul is using gearman to send jobs to jenkins now | 19:54 |
| clarkb | you can hit that with a base url of http://logstash.openstack.org/elasticsearch/ | 19:54 |
| clarkb | jeblair: \o/ | 19:55 |
| mordred | jeblair: woot! | 19:55 |
| jeblair | clarkb: we can use that to write something that searches logstash for queries embedded in launchpad bugs | 19:55 |
| mordred | davidlenwell is working on an owncloud server | 19:55 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yup | 19:55 |
| fungi | oh, some progress on the py3k testing. dprince made an awesome pip3 puppet package provider which i was able to get working on precise with the help of zul's ppa | 19:55 |
| jeblair | clarkb: to auto-identify new instances of bugs we know about. that'll be neat. | 19:55 |
| jlk | so,this NY bootstrap thing | 19:56 |
| pleia2 | as I told the triplo folks yesterday, lxc-based testing is going well, hopefully just hunting down the final gremlins | 19:56 |
| zaro | mordred: is there anything we need to do to prepare for training next week? | 19:56 |
| mordred | jlk: yup? | 19:56 |
| jlk | mordred: can you tell us more, and what will happen on each day? | 19:56 |
| mordred | I don't know that jeblair and I have gotten that far in the planning yet | 19:56 |
| jlk | I could probably get funding to go for one day, but it'd be a tough sell, and I"d have to fly home that night on a red eye or something | 19:56 |
| pleia2 | mordred, jeblair - let me know if you need help with anything | 19:57 |
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| mordred | jeblair: we shoudl probably brainstorm what we think the general structure is going to be at least | 19:57 |
| fungi | jlk: where are coming from? | 19:57 |
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| jeblair | mordred: yes, i think we can do that | 19:58 |
| jlk | fungi: Seattle | 19:58 |
| jlk | long ass flight, I'm --- not likely going to come | 19:58 |
| mordred | zaro: and I don't know that we've identified any homework needed - I think I'm assuming there will be at least one person there who has never heard of anything we do | 19:58 |
| jeblair | mordred: i can work with you on that today or thursday. | 19:58 |
| fungi | jlk: oof, yeah that's a rough day trip | 19:58 |
| mordred | jeblair: let's say thursday | 19:58 |
| clarkb | I can help thursday too if you need more brains/eyes | 19:58 |
| jlk | I've done the boot strap thing with clarkb a couple months ago, that's probably sufficient | 19:58 |
| fungi | jlk: since you're in seattle you can likely convince the locals there to rehash for you after | 19:59 |
| mordred | jlk: indeed. it'll probably be largely like that except with more people | 19:59 |
| clarkb | yeah we had a good short brain dump thing at linuxfest NW | 19:59 |
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| jlk | ok, I feel better about missing it. | 19:59 |
| jlk | I've been wanting an excuse to get to NY, but not for just one day | 19:59 |
| CaptTofu | greets | 19:59 |
| jeblair | jlk: yeah, i think it might be redundant, so don't worry about it. | 19:59 |
| mordred | o hai CaptTofu | 19:59 |
| fungi | and that's time ;) | 20:00 |
| CaptTofu | heya mr. mordred | 20:00 |
| zaro | jlk: come to convention center if you want more. but definately more fun in NY. | 20:00 |
| ttx | jeblair: time to close :) | 20:00 |
| jeblair | thanks everyone! | 20:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 18 20:00:23 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-06-18-19.02.html | 20:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-06-18-19.02.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-06-18-19.02.log.html | 20:00 |
| ttx | Who is around for the TC meeting ? | 20:00 |
| gabrielhurley | \o | 20:00 |
| notmyname | here | 20:00 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:00 |
| shardy | o/ | 20:00 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:00 |
| Kiall2 | Heya | 20:00 |
| CaptTofu | o/ | 20:00 |
| dolphm_ | o/ | 20:00 |
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| ttx | russellb, jd__, markmc, annegentle, mikal, markwash, jgriffith, markmcclain: around ? | 20:01 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:01 |
| markmc | yo | 20:01 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:01 |
| jgriffith | o/ | 20:01 |
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| russellb | missing two? | 20:01 |
| ttx | missing jd__ annegentle mikal markwash | 20:02 |
| russellb | 2, 4, same thing | 20:02 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 18 20:02:46 2013 UTC. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:02 |
| * mordred saw annegentle around earlier | 20:03 | |
| ttx | they are all on channel so hopefully they will join... except markwash | 20:03 |
| mordred | ttx: you don't hope markwash will join? that's rude | 20:03 |
| ttx | vishy: if he is sitting anywhere near you send something on him | 20:03 |
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| vishy | no he isn't | 20:03 |
| ttx | Agenda for today is at: | 20:03 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:04 |
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| ttx | #topic Special motion: TC membership evolution to All-directly-elected model | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Special motion: TC membership evolution to All-directly-elected model (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:04 | |
| *** radez is now known as radez_g0n3 | 20:04 | |
| ttx | Following the Condorcet poll and the discussion on openstack-dev, I finally drafted a special motion about moving to an "All-directly elected 13" model | 20:04 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-June/010255.html | 20:04 |
| ttx | There were no comments or objections on the thread, so I guess we are ready to vote ? | 20:05 |
| ttx | (ready, or bored to death about it) | 20:05 |
| russellb | ready here. | 20:05 |
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| markmc | ready, steady | 20:05 |
| ttx | As this is a special motion, we need 10 "yes" for this to pass. Abstaining (or not being present) is basically the same as voting "no" | 20:05 |
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| annegentle | I'm here | 20:06 |
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| ttx | here he is | 20:06 |
| markwash | o/ | 20:06 |
| mordred | woot | 20:06 |
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| ttx | so just missing jd__ and mikal | 20:06 |
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| markwash | sorry folks, traffic and getting a bit lost in wine country | 20:06 |
| ttx | let's try this | 20:06 |
| mordred | I always get lost in wine country | 20:06 |
| jgriffith | markwash: :) good place to get lost | 20:06 |
| gabrielhurley | markwash: your life is so hard. | 20:06 |
| ttx | #startvote Accept "TC membership evolution to All-directly-elected model" special motion? yes, no, abstain | 20:06 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Accept "TC membership evolution to All-directly-elected model" special motion? Valid vote options are yes, no, abstain. | 20:06 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 20:06 |
| ttx | Hopefully the last vote we'll have on this question :) | 20:07 |
| russellb | #vote yes | 20:07 |
| mordred | #vote yes | 20:07 |
| ttx | #vote yes | 20:07 |
| dolphm_ | #vote yes | 20:07 |
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| jgriffith | #vote yes | 20:07 |
| gabrielhurley | #vote abstain | 20:07 |
| shardy | #vote yes | 20:07 |
| markmc | #vote yes | 20:07 |
| annegentle | #vote yes | 20:07 |
| markwash | #vote yes | 20:07 |
| CaptTofu | mordred: and whisky country | 20:07 |
| notmyname | #vote abstain | 20:07 |
| markmcclain | #vote abstain | 20:07 |
| annegentle | whisky shivers | 20:07 |
| vishy | #vote yes | 20:07 |
| ttx | I think all present voted | 20:08 |
| jd__ | #vote yes | 20:08 |
| ttx | #endvote | 20:08 |
| jd__ | sorry a bit late | 20:08 |
| openstack | Voted on "Accept "TC membership evolution to All-directly-elected model" special motion?" Results are | 20:08 |
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| openstack | yes (11): markmc, ttx, vishy, shardy, jd__, markwash, annegentle, russellb, jgriffith, mordred, dolphm_ | 20:08 |
| openstack | abstain (3): gabrielhurley, notmyname, markmcclain | 20:08 |
| ttx | jd__: wow, just in time | 20:08 |
| mordred | jd__: impressive | 20:08 |
| jd__ | :-) | 20:08 |
| ttx | so we have an approval. | 20:08 |
| markmc | we do | 20:08 |
| russellb | thanks everyone | 20:09 |
| markmc | now we have to make it work :) | 20:09 |
| ttx | Awesome. next topic. | 20:09 |
| mordred | markmc: ++ | 20:09 |
| ttx | #topic Incubation request for Designate: initial discussion | 20:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Incubation request for Designate: initial discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:09 | |
| jgriffith | markwash: :) | 20:09 |
| mordred | markmc: here's hoping it works well so that we never have to talk about it again! | 20:09 |
| markmc | mordred, indeed | 20:09 |
| jgriffith | mordred: +1 | 20:09 |
| ttx | mordred: +1 | 20:09 |
| russellb | +1 | 20:09 |
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| ttx | So we are reviewing the incubation request for Designate, formerly known as Moniker. | 20:09 |
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| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2013-June/000266.html | 20:09 |
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| ttx | For this week we'll ask preliminary questions and give the Designate crew time to address them before we vote on the next meeting | 20:10 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Designate_Incubation_Application | 20:10 |
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| ttx | Is Kiall around ? | 20:10 |
| Kiall2 | Yep | 20:10 |
| ttx | cool, let's fire questions | 20:10 |
| * ttx has one | 20:11 | |
| ttx | Kiall2: You mention that you have a "framework in place to integrate with Nova and Quantum notifications"... | 20:11 |
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| ttx | and that you will add "functionality to utilize designate-sink to process events from Nova and Quantum" | 20:11 |
| ttx | Could you elaborate on that plan ? What is the timeframe for that ? | 20:11 |
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| Kiall2 | So, that statement ia somewhat out of date. Currently, we can receive and process nova and quantum events to trigger dns changes | 20:12 |
| Kiall2 | We auppprt | 20:12 |
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| ttx | Kiall2: auppprt? | 20:12 |
| mordred | ttx: I'm going to guess he meant support | 20:12 |
| Kiall2 | We support plugins to customize the exact behaviour | 20:12 |
| ttx | mordred: you're good at this. Must be some kind of HP lingo | 20:13 |
| Kiall2 | Apologies - on a phone.. stuck half way home | 20:13 |
| mordred | Kiall2: does that mean that, in theory, "nova boot monty.foo.com" could actually get me a server whos IP is properly configured in DNS? | 20:13 |
| Kiall2 | Mordred, yea.. thats possible | 20:13 |
| dolphm_ | that would be cool | 20:13 |
| mordred | that would make me the happiest person ever | 20:13 |
| mordred | if HP and Rackspace do not both implement that | 20:14 |
| mordred | I will physically kill people | 20:14 |
| ttx | Kiall2: you receive those events through designate-sink ? Or tat's not available yet ? | 20:14 |
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| Kiall2 | The default plugins create ip-n-n-n-n.bla.com | 20:14 |
| dolphm_ | mordred: i'll help you get in the building | 20:14 |
| Kiall2 | Yes, through sink which is available today | 20:14 |
| ttx | Kiall2: ok, good | 20:14 |
| ttx | So it looks like Designate has two roles: pure DNSaaS in the same way we have Trove to do RDBaaS... but it can also be consumed internally to do smart record updates ? | 20:15 |
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| simonmcc | ttx: that's correct | 20:16 |
| Kiall2 | Absolutely - we aim to support end user and internal dns needs | 20:16 |
| mordred | well, the two would go hand in hand, right? a customer would "own" a domain - and then they could either update an entry via a direct API call, or nova/quantum could do an update for them, right? | 20:16 |
| mordred | cool | 20:16 |
| gabrielhurley | What is the plan for expanding/integrating your documentation? I spend a good bit of time talking to someone who was evaluating Designate last week (unrelated to incubation) and he expressed concerns that the only docs he could find tended to suggest needlessly complicated or inadvisable patterns that clearly fit very specific deployment cases (probably HP-internal requirements). I think this is an area where great docu | 20:17 |
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| ttx | mordred: sure, but that makes it an interesting candidate. Somewhere between our "supporting cast" category (think ceilometer) and the "IaaS++" style (think Trove) | 20:17 |
| Kiall2 | So, i'll be the first to admit our documentation needs work. Lots of work. | 20:18 |
| gabrielhurley | heh | 20:18 |
| CaptTofu | I will chime in and say that we on the team will certainly be filling in documentation where needed. | 20:18 |
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| annegentle | gabrielhurley: thanks for not making me point it out :) | 20:18 |
| markmc | Kiall2, you're the only person to merge more than 5 commits in the last 6 months - does that concern you? | 20:18 |
| annegentle | though I will say I was unable to get Rackspace to give them source for API docs | 20:18 |
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| russellb | concerns me ... i'd definitely like to see a more sustainable dev community around it before it was integrated, at least | 20:19 |
| mordred | Kiall2: and along with markmc, I see Ryan_lane listed - but do we have any good support from non-HP? | 20:19 |
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| Kiall2 | Markmc: Yes, and no. We've not puahed hard enough for mpre involvement | 20:20 |
| mordred | and has there been any word from RAX on interest in moving their DNSaaS to Designate? | 20:20 |
| annegentle | Kiall2: what mordred said | 20:20 |
| markmcclain | I'm concerned about community size as well | 20:20 |
| CaptTofu | mordred: at the conference they were very interested | 20:20 |
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| Kiall2 | Yes, we had a conversation at the summit | 20:20 |
| mordred | ok. that's good | 20:20 |
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| Kiall2 | But - Im noy sure what was said in confidence. | 20:21 |
| CaptTofu | mordred: I need to reach out to their PM about that | 20:21 |
| mordred | I agree with what russellb says - I'd want to see real movement on dev community as a graduation requirement | 20:21 |
| ttx | Yeah, I think Designate makes sense from scope and architecture perspective. The most concerning aspect would be dev community expansion | 20:21 |
| mordred | CaptTofu: well, I'd like to see that engagement happen in the openstack context, rather than as HP employee to Rackspace PM | 20:21 |
| russellb | are there any other projects out there that do this same thing? | 20:21 |
| Kiall2 | Mordred, i would be happy with that condition | 20:21 |
| notmyname | I'm not sure abut the scope question, but I'm still trying to formulate thoughts | 20:22 |
| Kiall2 | Russellb: yes, but nothing as complete | 20:22 |
| mordred | CaptTofu: although if you need to jumpstart that interaction with some phone calls, then go for it | 20:22 |
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| CaptTofu | mordred: exactly, and some of that has just been the extreme business :) Agree. | 20:22 |
| Kiall2 | Nova-dns from griddynamics for one | 20:22 |
| CaptTofu | mordred: will do. | 20:22 |
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| mordred | Kiall2: any thoughts from griddynamics about working together? | 20:22 |
| * mordred is thinking some of these folks might be waiting for designate to become incubated before jumping on board. sigh | 20:23 | |
| russellb | chicken/egg | 20:23 |
| Kiall2 | We talked 2 summits ago.. it wasnt ovely productive | 20:23 |
| mordred | yah | 20:23 |
| Kiall2 | Overly* | 20:23 |
| mordred | Kiall2: was that due to technical differences? | 20:23 |
| russellb | any expected major rework / redesign as a result of recent testing? | 20:23 |
| mordred | notmyname: yeah. I'm with you. on the one hand "DNS" seems like decently clear scope. on the other hand - it's DNS, which means it can be anything... | 20:24 |
| ttx | mordred: indeed. That's one case where we might need to incubate early and integrate later, to give more time for community coalescence | 20:24 |
| Kiall2 | There was 2 options, and they disappeared after a vote that didnt choose their option | 20:24 |
| mordred | hrm | 20:24 |
| Kiall2 | Russelb: im eyeing up a v2 api.. but nothing concrete yet. | 20:24 |
| jd__ | I know people interested in Designate but many are still coping with other OpenStack components at this point :) | 20:25 |
| gabrielhurley | "coping with OpenStack". ha. | 20:25 |
| notmyname | mordred: I'm concerned that DNSaaS as described should maybe be a subset of nova functionality, and "DNS" is something that should be in an overall "data delivery" project (IMO the current biggest gat in openstack) | 20:25 |
| markwash | Kiall2: the "create a server" part of the api. . that's not actually instantiating a dns server, is it? its just registering an existing powerdns or other dns server that is already running, correct? | 20:26 |
| mordred | notmyname: gat? | 20:26 |
| ttx | gap ? | 20:26 |
| mordred | gap! | 20:26 |
| * mordred tried to fill "gate" in there, and got very confused | 20:26 | |
| Kiall2 | Markwash, down the line users will be able to create private dns servers | 20:26 |
| russellb | in fact, mikal has patches in progress to do that in nova | 20:26 |
| Kiall2 | Today, they provide the NS records for zones. | 20:27 |
| annegentle | so how do people do this now? | 20:27 |
| mordred | Kiall2: why would a person want a private dns server? | 20:27 |
| mordred | Kiall2: rather than control of zone file entries? | 20:27 |
| Kiall2 | Internal zones "dev.local" etc | 20:27 |
| mordred | annegentle: well, I use rackspace dnsaas :) | 20:27 |
| mordred | Kiall2: gotcha | 20:27 |
| markwash | notmyname: intriguing. . can you expand a little on DNS in a "data delivery" project? | 20:27 |
| mordred | Kiall2: so sort of like for people using quantum to create private envs | 20:27 |
| Kiall2 | Exactly. | 20:28 |
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| annegentle | within nova somehow? | 20:28 |
| creiht | or what is a "data delivery" project? | 20:28 |
| ttx | markwash: maybe notmyname means DNSaaS as just another form of DBaaS | 20:28 |
| ttx | since that's what it is, after all | 20:29 |
| notmyname | ttx: there isn't anything in openstack that does edge delivery or anything beyond internal-DC routing. I think we are missing something in the "networking" pillar of the project (compute, storage, networking), and DNS IMO seems to fit more in that gap | 20:29 |
| * creiht looks forward to the offical openstack cron as a service | 20:29 | |
| mordred | annegentle: for OpenStack CI - it's two different api calls for us. We do "nova boot jenkins.openstack.org" then we do "raxdns add jenkins.openstack.org IP_ADDR" or something | 20:29 |
| sdague | honestly, given how incredibly useful I've found linode dns with an API to be used beyond guests I have there, I think DNSaaS is completely legitimate as a stand alone | 20:29 |
| Kiall2 | Annrgentile: yes, i rhink it would boot instances for private dns servers | 20:29 |
| mordred | sdague: ++ | 20:29 |
| ttx | notmyname: oh, I see | 20:29 |
| notmyname | but I'm not sure I agree that DNSaaS as described (and I'm still working on figuring out what it means) should be a top-level project | 20:29 |
| * mordred finds clouds without dns services to be highly unusable | 20:29 | |
| notmyname | mordred: I agree | 20:29 |
| notmyname | I'm not commenting on the usefulness of DNS | 20:30 |
| mordred | totally. yeah - it's about placement | 20:30 |
| ttx | notmyname: we don't really have "top-level projects". Do you mean "core" or "integrated" ? I'd agree that it's not meant to become "core" with my current understanding of that | 20:30 |
| notmyname | actually, one thing I would like to read is what DNSaaS actually does? how is it more than an API to BIND? or service hooks in nova? or deploying BIND servers on nova instances? | 20:31 |
| ttx | or that it could be made part of quantum/nova/trove instead ? | 20:31 |
| mordred | I think to me it feels 'top level' due to organization. it needs to interact bi-directionally with nova and quantum and its own user-facing stuf potentially | 20:31 |
| sdague | ttx: from a nova perspective, I don't think any of us want more scope pushed into nova | 20:31 |
| mordred | but that could purely be bias based on past usage experience | 20:31 |
| sdague | we've been trying hard to spin scope out, re: cinder / ironic | 20:31 |
| russellb | does it do anything for actual setting up of dns servers? | 20:31 |
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| jgriffith | sdague: +1 | 20:31 |
| russellb | or is that left as an exercse to the deployer? | 20:32 |
| notmyname | ttx: sorry. "top level" as integrated | 20:32 |
| ttx | sdague: indeed, and now projects should be free to cover whatever scope is most appropriate | 20:32 |
| Kiall2 | Notmyname: So, we started simple. API to control DNS | 20:32 |
| markwash | DNSaaS in Designate seems to be offering a generic-ish HTTP api for controlling a cluster of DNS servers. . in my limited experience i haven't found good tools for manipulating DNS entries through a generic api | 20:32 |
| sdague | markwash: +1 | 20:32 |
| mordred | also, integrated with keystone auth | 20:32 |
| Kiall2 | Over time, more complex and involved features will be added. | 20:32 |
| clarkb | Merging Designate with nova, quantum, or some other core projects kills the usefulness of a designate install outside of the context of OpenStack | 20:33 |
| notmyname | cool. that sounds useful (I hadn't seen a simple description like that in the docs I read yet) | 20:33 |
| mordred | which is important in terms of tenant ownership of namespaces | 20:33 |
| russellb | Kiall2: are those "future features" documented on your application? | 20:33 |
| markwash | if I'm right (my experience is super limited!), DNSaaS isn't like DBaaS because DBaaS presumes that there is already an appropriate data api for controlling things (like SQL) | 20:33 |
| sdague | your only real option in that space is basically samba4, which has it's own goofiness | 20:33 |
| russellb | ah, i see some future release plans .. | 20:33 |
| markwash | s/controlling things/CRUD/ | 20:33 |
| mordred | sdague: zomg. can we have Samba4aaS? | 20:33 |
| markwash | lol | 20:33 |
| Kiall2 | Russelb: No - were hoping the community will help there! | 20:34 |
| mordred | Kiall2: you are the community | 20:34 |
| russellb | Kiall2: ok, you just said "in the future we can add more advanced stuff", so curious what you had in mind. if you don't have anything in mind, that's fine. | 20:34 |
| sdague | mordred: and turn everything in openstack into activedirectory, sounds awesome :) | 20:34 |
| russellb | it's ok to be feature complete, too. | 20:34 |
| creiht | mordred: isn't that basically filesystem as a service, which some of the SAN guys are trying to get going? | 20:34 |
| russellb | creiht: mordred yeah, i think that may be starting to move again .. | 20:35 |
| Kiall2 | Russelb: geoip, weighted round robin, active failover, private dns servers etc | 20:35 |
| CaptTofu | russelb: certainly more dns server backends | 20:35 |
| mordred | Kiall2: also, I was just poking the trove guys about this - but consider cross-cloud things too | 20:35 |
| mordred | Kiall2: such as people who run a single thing (openstack.org) on multiple clouds | 20:36 |
| CaptTofu | mordred: you mean compatibility with route 49 or somesuch? | 20:36 |
| * mordred may be filing feature requests now | 20:36 | |
| mordred | CaptTofu: nope. I do not care about amazon at all | 20:36 |
| Kiall2 | Mordred: please do!( | 20:36 |
| mordred | CaptTofu: I mean that it's possible that resources may be spun up on mulitple independent clouds | 20:36 |
| ttx | Is there anything missing from the incubation request which you'd like to see precised before the vote next week ? | 20:36 |
| CaptTofu | mordred: gotcha | 20:36 |
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| mordred | and some of our newer projects (heat, trove, designate) sit in places where they can either help or kill interop | 20:37 |
| mordred | one does not expect a single VM to run on two clouds | 20:37 |
| mordred | one MIGHT want a single orchestration engine to spin up vms and dns entries that span clouds | 20:37 |
| clarkb | mordred: ++ | 20:37 |
| mordred | s/one might want/the openstack infra team absolutely wants/ | 20:38 |
| annegentle | ttx: yes, future feature vision, also a doc plan | 20:38 |
| Kiall2 | Sure, DNS works best with geo distributed servers.. multi cloud fita there. | 20:38 |
| mordred | in any case - that's future direction :) | 20:38 |
| Kiall2 | Fits* | 20:38 |
| mordred | just make sure that makes it into a plan even if local product managers don't care please | 20:38 |
| russellb | i would also put out a call for who would be interested in helping | 20:38 |
| ttx | annegentle: there is /some/ info about future features on the incubation request. Expand that ? | 20:38 |
| russellb | we were sort of guessing earlier that maybe the low level of contribution was people waiting for it to be incubated, but no reason to wait | 20:39 |
| markwash | ttx: no extra precision needed for me, but I'm really interested in fitting DNSaaS into our project lineup in the "right" way, in a technical & UX sense | 20:39 |
| markwash | basically, interested in further pursuing lines of thinking like notmyname was proposing | 20:39 |
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| annegentle | ttx: under Future release plans there's no geo, round robin, active failover mentioned | 20:39 |
| russellb | markwash: that would be good to see on the ML this week | 20:39 |
| creiht | is loadbalancers going to stay in quantum (or whatever it is named now) | 20:39 |
| russellb | i'd like to hear more ... | 20:39 |
| markwash | russellb: +1 | 20:39 |
| creiht | if that is the case, any reason why dns should also go there? | 20:40 |
| annegentle | ttx: unless I'm not mapping terms to terms correctly | 20:40 |
| jdbarry_ | mordred: noted re: fitting into future plan (from a local PM) | 20:40 |
| mordred | jdbarry_: thank you | 20:40 |
| notmyname | I'd love to see DNS integration as a feature bullet point of something larger in scope (like a CDN). I still don't understand the need for a REST API to a DNS server (or at least the need for that functionality to be an openstack project in and of itself) | 20:40 |
| jd__ | creiht: problems of different levels | 20:40 |
| mordred | notmyname: the rest api part I totally get | 20:41 |
| mordred | notmyname: as a rampant user of it currently | 20:41 |
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| mordred | notmyname: but looking at context of larger scoped things is also very intruiging | 20:42 |
| mordred | notmyname: primary - if it's not got a public rest interface, then I can't piggyback my current keystone auth token and associate actions I'm taking with my tenant account | 20:42 |
| ttx | annegentle: no, it could definitely use a bit more vision, I agree | 20:42 |
| mordred | and if I can't do that, then I'm a sad panda | 20:43 |
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| Kiall2 | Apologies - disconnected for a min there. Any outstanding Q's? | 20:43 |
| russellb | sounds like there's some stuff worth spawning off to the ML ... | 20:44 |
| ttx | creiht: that question was raised in the thread and answered by Kiall @ http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-June/010162.html | 20:45 |
| russellb | more discussion of how DNS might fit into something larger scope (notmyname), mainly | 20:45 |
| Kiall2 | Russelb, I'll review the loga and readdress eveything on the ML | 20:45 |
| mordred | Kiall2: I think further work on clarifying future scope | 20:45 |
| russellb | Kiall2: yeah, was going to suggest that, good | 20:45 |
| creiht | ttx: thx | 20:45 |
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| ttx | OK, I think we can let the discussion continue on the ML this week. And we'll see if we are ready to decide at next week meeting, or if we need more time | 20:46 |
| CaptTofu | I would only add having an API for DNS might be seen in a way of why it's useful for any other service that is often used and fits into cloud topology. | 20:47 |
| Kiall2 | Russelb, so DNS fits everywhere | 20:47 |
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| markwash | CaptTofu: does not fempute | 20:47 |
| CaptTofu | DNS server agnosticism | 20:47 |
| markwash | ah | 20:47 |
| Kiall2 | Keystone catalog alternative, CDN, compute instance addressing, SSH fingerprint validation | 20:47 |
| Kiall2 | There are potential tie ins all over the place, which makes if dofficult to pick a few! | 20:48 |
| ttx | Unless you have more questions, we can switch to Open discussion now (which may still be on this same topic) | 20:48 |
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| Kiall2 | Thanks all :) | 20:49 |
| CaptTofu | much thanks to all! | 20:49 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:49 |
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| mordred | now that the TC elections vote is done, is it appropriate for me to do a motion for next week about making tripleo a program like oslo? | 20:49 |
| ttx | yes, we should start the discussion on "programs" soon, now that the membership evolution discussion is out of the way | 20:49 |
| mordred | do we need to have a general programs discussion | 20:50 |
| mordred | ? | 20:50 |
| ttx | mordred: I'd rather define what a "program" is first, no ? | 20:50 |
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| mordred | eh | 20:50 |
| mordred | I'd actually rather not, tbh | 20:50 |
| markmc | a program is a project with multiple repos? | 20:50 |
| mordred | because I think we'll rathole on it for 9 months and drive everyone crazy | 20:50 |
| markmc | maybe discuss what tripleo as a program would mean | 20:50 |
| markmc | would help clarify the idea of programs a bit more | 20:50 |
| mordred | markmc: technically, a thing with outcomes in mind, rather than specific products | 20:51 |
| ttx | The sticky points are, programs still need to be proposed/approved because they will bring ATC status | 20:51 |
| mordred | markmc: so, oslo's is to reduce duplication of common effort across openstack | 20:51 |
| mordred | markmc: tripleo's is to do what's needed to make openstack able to boot openstack | 20:51 |
| ttx | but yes, can be a rather lose definition | 20:51 |
| mordred | in both cases, this can result in separate code | 20:51 |
| mordred | or it can result in patches to existing projects | 20:51 |
| markmc | hmm | 20:52 |
| ttx | mordred: but I'd rather determine what is currently already a "program" before discussing of accepting new ones :) | 20:52 |
| shardy | why can't it just be a project, with a stated purpose? | 20:52 |
| markmc | getting into "a program covers contributions to other projects" is a bit nebulous | 20:52 |
| mordred | well, becuase a project tehn gets in to openstack project semantics - which is where we get in to "does it have a rest api" and all of that stuff | 20:52 |
| annegentle | shardy: docs and qa and ci cover all the projects | 20:52 |
| mordred | yeah | 20:52 |
| * markmc thinks oslo as a program is multiple repos with oslo-core overseeing them all | 20:52 | |
| markwash | is there any way to at least communicate the meaning without going down a rabbit hole or getting legalistic? | 20:52 |
| ttx | shardy: currently you are an ATC if you contribute to a set of blessed projects. My vision for it would be to be an ATC if you contribute to a project in a blessed program | 20:53 |
| mordred | markwash: right. I think that's what I'd like to do :) | 20:53 |
| mordred | I'd say docs, qa, ci/infra and oslo are all programs at the moment | 20:53 |
| ttx | like "infrastructure" | 20:53 |
| shardy | markmc: well heat has multiple repos, the main stuff, and dependent additional stuff | 20:53 |
| mordred | I think it's a different thing from a project with multiple repos, personally | 20:53 |
| mordred | mainly because there is no "main" repo from which things split off | 20:53 |
| ttx | mordred: we could consider the "integrated release" as a program too. Which would contain all integrated projects | 20:53 |
| shardy | markmc: I don't see the multiple repos thing as a defining feature | 20:53 |
| mordred | shardy: ++ | 20:53 |
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| annegentle | mordred: how about why you think a program is not a project? | 20:53 |
| russellb | and oslo is really close to project ... it's just not user facing like everything else :-/ | 20:53 |
| ttx | programs could be project containers | 20:54 |
| mordred | annegentle: I think a program is not a project because a program is defined as a set of people with a common objective working together | 20:54 |
| russellb | user facing in terms of having running services and an API i guess | 20:54 |
| mordred | annegentle: and a project is defined by the codebase of the project | 20:54 |
| annegentle | mordred: ok that helps | 20:54 |
| mordred | so, qa has one repo | 20:54 |
| mordred | tempest | 20:54 |
| * annegentle doesn't rathole just seeks understanding | 20:54 | |
| mordred | but I don't think _tempest_ is the point | 20:54 |
| mordred | as much as integration testing | 20:54 |
| mordred | annegentle: totally. it's a weird distinction | 20:54 |
| mordred | it's more trying to describe a thing I think we all know is happening already | 20:55 |
| dolphm_ | russellb: oslo defines a lot of openstack's UX, obviously | 20:55 |
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| ttx | mordred: we need to see if everything can be considered a program, or if the integrated projects still need some specialcasing | 20:55 |
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| russellb | i guess i'm saying oslo seems different than docs, qa, infra | 20:55 |
| ttx | Oslo is a program with the goal of reducing code duplication | 20:56 |
| markmc | group of people with common objective, I buy that | 20:56 |
| markmc | that group is oslo-core in oslo | 20:56 |
| markwash | russellb: I kinda agree. . now oslo.*utils feels similar though | 20:56 |
| markmc | they're people with +2 rights to a group of repos | 20:56 |
| dolphm_ | ttx: with that kind of definition, i'd say all projects are also programs | 20:56 |
| mordred | yes. but not all programs are projects :) | 20:56 |
| ttx | dolphm_: or part of the same "integrated release" program | 20:56 |
| ttx | I think that's a detail anyway | 20:57 |
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| * markwash out for a little bit, but back in time for glance status | 20:58 | |
| mordred | ttx: I'll try to write up something for next week based on this discussion | 20:58 |
| ttx | the important part is to rewrite/refactor/reorganize https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Projects so that it makes sense and is flexible | 20:58 |
| markmc | tripleo as part of an official release cycle is probably what's best to talk through | 20:58 |
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| mordred | markmc: ++ | 20:58 |
| ttx | so that we ahve a clear "ATC" definition | 20:58 |
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| ttx | mordred: post that thread early | 20:58 |
| mordred | which I think all came about from wanting to do things that would have projects potentially depend on tripleo outputs | 20:58 |
| ttx | mordred: or i'll start it | 20:59 |
| mordred | like some of hte heat/orc interactions - or trove+dib | 20:59 |
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| mordred | which is why it feels a little bit more like oslo to me, but I'm not sure I can fully say why | 20:59 |
| * ttx still has https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1t1t2Aj1rIvxNnIvbjsiTPe5Szpx-lXBpW1dbL4K08cE/edit?usp=sharing up | 20:59 | |
| markmc | in both cases, my instinct is they should be optional deps | 20:59 |
| markmc | unlike oslo | 20:59 |
| markmc | i.e. trove should be happy with any image builder | 21:00 |
| russellb | (unless we had an image building API ...) | 21:00 |
| ttx | ok, time to close it | 21:00 |
| mordred | kk. move to mailing list | 21:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 18 21:00:40 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-06-18-20.02.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-06-18-20.02.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-06-18-20.02.log.html | 21:00 |
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| ttx | markmc, dolphm, notmyname, jd__, markwash, jgriffith, russellb, shardy, gabrielhurley, markmcclain: still around ? | 21:01 |
| jd__ | o/ | 21:01 |
| notmyname | here | 21:01 |
| russellb | yup | 21:01 |
| dolphm_ | o/ | 21:01 |
| shardy | o/ | 21:01 |
| markmc | yep | 21:01 |
| gabrielhurley | \o | 21:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:01 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 18 21:01:41 2013 UTC. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:01 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 21:01 |
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| ttx | Mutnauq will go first as markmcclain has a conflict | 21:01 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:02 |
| ttx | After the general stuff though | 21:02 |
| ttx | #topic General stuff | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General stuff (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:02 | |
| ttx | FWIW I'm looking into improvements in the way we are tracking blueprints, so that we can avoid the whole "series goal" nonsense in the future. | 21:02 |
| ttx | Should post about that this week. In the meantime we'll continue to care about it. | 21:02 |
| russellb | +1 | 21:02 |
| ttx | sdague: around ? | 21:02 |
| markmcclain | +1 | 21:02 |
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| ttx | annegentle, jeblair/mordred: news from Docs/Infra teams ? | 21:03 |
| annegentle | Here's my latest doc update | 21:04 |
| annegentle | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2013-June/001963.html | 21:04 |
| mordred | ttx: wel ... | 21:04 |
| mordred | ttx: jeblair and zaro landed gearman-based zuul! | 21:04 |
| annegentle | We're holding "office hours" Mondays at 16:00 UTC | 21:04 |
| mordred | ttx: you should all be super excited and impressed | 21:04 |
| mordred | also | 21:04 |
| ttx | annegentle: I really like that idea | 21:04 |
| annegentle | ttx: it went great yesterday | 21:05 |
| mordred | per sdague: this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1192131 is killing us right now | 21:05 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1192131 in nova "giant race in quantum - quantumclient key errors break creation of guests in nova" [Critical,In progress] | 21:05 |
| ttx | mordred: yes, that's the one I wanted to raise | 21:05 |
| mordred | great | 21:05 |
| annegentle | One outcome is a new wiki page listing location of source of docs | 21:05 |
| annegentle | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/Builds | 21:05 |
| mordred | but everyone shoudl rejoice about gearman-zuul | 21:05 |
| annegentle | that's all I've | 21:05 |
| ttx | sdague is not around, but I guess we can have markmcclain/russellb's opinion on that bug | 21:05 |
| ttx | annegentle: thx! | 21:05 |
| russellb | oh, so, i put up a patch that i sorta hoped might fix it | 21:06 |
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| ttx | russellb: so nothing needs to land on Quantum's side ? | 21:06 |
| ttx | (or tempest ?) | 21:06 |
| russellb | just checked, and it didn't fix it | 21:06 |
| russellb | so nevermind. | 21:06 |
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| russellb | so, still not sure what the root cause is | 21:07 |
| ttx | russellb/markmcclain: any chance you could gather and look into it in more detail ? Or delegate that to domain experts ? | 21:07 |
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| russellb | while chatting in #openstack-nova earlier, sdague said garyk was looking at it ... haven't followed up since though | 21:08 |
| markmcclain | yeah… let me see if I can get the folks who work on the nova/quantum integration to dig | 21:08 |
| russellb | markmcclain: cool | 21:08 |
| ttx | cool | 21:08 |
| ttx | #topic Quantum status | 21:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Quantum status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:08 | |
| ttx | markmcclain: hi! | 21:08 |
| markmcclain | hi | 21:09 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/quantum/+milestone/havana-2 | 21:09 |
| ttx | Looks like you're reasonably on track... | 21:09 |
| ttx | About remove-use-of-quantum, do you have good news to announce ? | 21:09 |
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| markmcclain | yeah.. we've finally got a new name: neutron | 21:09 |
| ttx | yay! | 21:09 |
| ttx | #info Quantum to be renamed to Neutron | 21:10 |
| danwent | :) | 21:10 |
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| ttx | same number of letters, nice | 21:10 |
| russellb | ohhhh snap | 21:10 |
| ttx | markmcclain: do you have a transition plan ? | 21:11 |
| jd__ | sed ? | 21:11 |
| ttx | Was discussing with jeblair earlier and the repo rename might be tricky | 21:11 |
| markmc | Neutron, nice | 21:11 |
| markmcclain | I've been chatting with mordred and the folks on infra | 21:11 |
| ttx | given that it's part of the gate | 21:11 |
| jeblair | ttx: we talked about it a bit at the infra meeting | 21:11 |
| mordred | it's going to be fun | 21:11 |
| ttx | jeblair: cool | 21:11 |
| mordred | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/33393/ is a stab at one of the first steps (almost certainly not done/complete) | 21:12 |
| ttx | markmcclain/jeblair: any timeframe for the transition ? | 21:12 |
| jeblair | short version: merge compatibility changes to projects, then force changes to devstack and devstack-gate during the repo rename downtime. | 21:12 |
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| ttx | Something we can complete by the end of the month, you think ? | 21:13 |
| mordred | ttx: not sure on timeframe yet. depends on how long it takes to get the compat changes landed | 21:13 |
| ttx | mordred: ack | 21:13 |
| ttx | markmcclain: anything you wanted to raise ? | 21:14 |
| markmcclain | the name change is the big one | 21:14 |
| ttx | Questions on Quantum ? | 21:14 |
| russellb | Neutron! | 21:14 |
| ttx | err... Neutron ? | 21:14 |
| * mordred weeps for mutnauq | 21:14 | |
| russellb | markmcclain: i like it :) | 21:14 |
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| * ttx weeps for Quadric | 21:15 | |
| markmcclain | russellb: it only took 11 tries to make the lawyers happy | 21:15 |
| ttx | #topic Oslo status | 21:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Oslo status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:15 | |
| markmc | markmcclain, wow, 11 | 21:15 |
| ttx | markmc: hi! | 21:15 |
| markmc | so two things before I forget | 21:15 |
| ttx | Protip: next time, pick an imaginary name for your project please | 21:15 |
| rdo | do we have a list of those that got turned down? | 21:15 |
| markmc | first is looks like quantum can finally use oslo-1.2.0a2: https://review.openstack.org/33429 | 21:15 |
| markmc | thanks to the pbr fixes in pbr-0.5.15 | 21:16 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/oslo/+milestone/havana-2 | 21:16 |
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| markmc | and I've proposed oslo.messaging repo for import to gerrit: https://review.openstack.org/33420 | 21:16 |
| ttx | Good progress overall... | 21:16 |
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| markmc | #info quantum can finally use oslo-1.2.0a2: https://review.openstack.org/33429 | 21:16 |
| markmc | #info oslo.messaging repo proposed for import to gerrit: https://review.openstack.org/33420 | 21:16 |
| ttx | markmc: Do you have a way forward for trusted-messaging now ? | 21:17 |
| markmc | ttx, still blocked on the kds work in keystone | 21:17 |
| * markmc checks for updates | 21:17 | |
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| markmc | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/key-distribution-server | 21:17 |
| markmc | I know there's code | 21:17 |
| markmc | but not yet proposed | 21:17 |
| ttx | hmm, that one will definitely be a close one | 21:17 |
| markmc | http://fedorapeople.org/cgit/simo/public_git/keystone.git/log/?h=shared-key-msg | 21:18 |
| markmc | I can't see it making havana-2 | 21:18 |
| markmc | *maybe* havana-3 | 21:18 |
| ttx | markmc: maybe defer it then to h3 | 21:18 |
| markmc | there's a lot needs to land before this is usable with all projects in havana | 21:18 |
| markmc | ttx, yeah, do you prefer to defer early and pull back into h2 if needs be? | 21:18 |
| ttx | yes | 21:18 |
| markmc | if so, I might defer a bunch of stuff | 21:19 |
| markmc | but stuff that might well make it | 21:19 |
| ttx | it's all about communicating reasonable expectations. People need to be pleasantly surprised from time to time | 21:19 |
| markmc | ok | 21:19 |
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| ttx | Random remark: oslo-sqlalchemy-utils (Medium) depends on test-migrations (Low) | 21:19 |
| markmc | ok | 21:19 |
| ttx | On the bugs side you have https://bugs.launchpad.net/oslo/+bug/1182842 which is rated "Critical" | 21:19 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1182842 in oslo "Publish oslo.config docs" [Critical,Triaged] | 21:19 |
| ttx | Anything going on on this one ? Should we reduce its importance ? | 21:20 |
| markmc | I don't think it does depend on it, really | 21:20 |
| * markmc looks to fix | 21:20 | |
| markmc | reduced to High | 21:20 |
| ttx | markmc: anything you wanted to raise ? | 21:20 |
| markmc | not from me | 21:20 |
| ttx | Questions about Oslo ? | 21:20 |
| ttx | #topic Keystone status | 21:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:20 | |
| dolphm_ | o/ | 21:20 |
| ttx | dolphm_: : o/ | 21:20 |
| ttx | You had an action in last week meeting: "dolphm to clarify progress on keystoneclient support for trusts and report on heat-trusts bp whiteboard" | 21:21 |
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| ttx | dolphm_: did you get further info from ayoung ? | 21:21 |
| dolphm_ | ttx: yes, let me find that convo | 21:21 |
| shardy | ttx: I've offered to take a look at adding it | 21:22 |
| shardy | not quite got to it yet | 21:22 |
| ttx | dolphm_/shardy: just update the whiteboard at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/heat-trusts with updated info | 21:22 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/havana-2 | 21:22 |
| ttx | Slow progress... | 21:22 |
| ttx | inherited-domain-roles is still "Not started" ? | 21:23 |
| dolphm_ | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/python-keystoneclient/+spec/delegation-impersonation-support | 21:23 |
| dolphm_ | shardy: assigned ^ | 21:23 |
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| ttx | I saw discussion about it but not sure it will make h2 at this point | 21:23 |
| dolphm_ | ttx: inherited domain roles impl is not started, but we've been having a *lot* of discussion around the api | 21:23 |
| ttx | ok | 21:23 |
| dolphm_ | it's very much in progress, just not on the python side yet | 21:23 |
| ttx | Also what's the status of delegated-auth-via-oauth ? | 21:23 |
| dolphm_ | just went into code review this week | 21:24 |
| ttx | Missed h1 and looks stuck | 21:24 |
| ttx | oh, ok | 21:24 |
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| ttx | we should see progress "soon" then | 21:24 |
| ttx | dolphm: Anything more about Keystone ? | 21:24 |
| shardy | dolphm_: thanks, I've updated the heat-trusts whiteboard | 21:24 |
| dolphm_ | shardy: thank you for jumping in! | 21:24 |
| ttx | Questions anyone ? | 21:24 |
| shardy | dolphm_: np, figured I'd help out since we need it! :) | 21:24 |
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| ttx | #topic Ceilometer status | 21:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ceilometer status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:25 | |
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| ttx | jd__: hey | 21:25 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/havana-2 | 21:25 |
| ttx | I think you are on track... | 21:25 |
| jd__ | so far I think so too, we're just lacking some code reviews lately | 21:25 |
| ttx | jd__: Was work started on one-meter-per-plugin and alarm-actioner ? | 21:25 |
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| jd__ | ttx: nop, though I'm not worried about these | 21:26 |
| ttx | ok... https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/havana/+setgoals has two blueprints proposed | 21:26 |
| ttx | Looking at bugs, I see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+bug/1189848 ... was that one finally solved for you ? | 21:26 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1189848 in ceilometer "pbr >= 0.5.12 breaks ceilometer tests" [Critical,In progress] | 21:26 |
| jd__ | yes we're good fortunately now | 21:27 |
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| ttx | Should that bug be marked invalid / FixCommitted ? | 21:27 |
| jd__ | just set fix committed | 21:27 |
| jd__ | I just set fix committed | 21:27 |
| ttx | cool | 21:27 |
| ttx | jd__: anything you wanted to mention ? | 21:27 |
| jd__ | bananas | 21:27 |
| jd__ | that's all | 21:28 |
| ttx | Questions on Ceilometer ? | 21:28 |
| ttx | #topic Swift status | 21:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Swift status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:28 | |
| notmyname | hi | 21:28 |
| ttx | notmyname: o/ | 21:28 |
| ttx | I saw your 1.9.0 plans, with the June 27th target release date | 21:28 |
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| notmyname | yup | 21:28 |
| ttx | When do you want to freeze for QA, i.e. when should I cut milestone-proposed ? | 21:28 |
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| ttx | sometimes near the end of this week ? | 21:28 |
| notmyname | friday probably | 21:29 |
| ttx | ok, well just let keep me posted | 21:29 |
| notmyname | really, we're waiting on a few key patches rather than the date | 21:29 |
| ttx | swift/__init__.py still has _version = Version('1.8.1', False) atm. | 21:29 |
| ttx | Want me to propose a ('1.9.0', False) version bump ? | 21:29 |
| notmyname | correct. I'll update that before the QA cut | 21:29 |
| ttx | ok | 21:29 |
| ttx | notmyname: anything else you wanted to raise ? | 21:29 |
| notmyname | we just added a new core team member yesterday: Peter Portante from Red Hat | 21:30 |
| notmyname | that's all I have | 21:30 |
| ttx | Questions about Swift ? | 21:30 |
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| ttx | #topic Glance status | 21:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Glance status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:31 | |
| mordred | notmyname: anything specific you want for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/28892/ | 21:31 |
| ttx | #undo | 21:31 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x3484f10> | 21:31 |
| mordred | notmyname: (swift and glance are the last holdouts - just wanted to make sure if I needed to do something it was on my radar) | 21:31 |
| notmyname | mordred: we're having some issues with pbr right now. I'll talk to you tomorrow about it | 21:31 |
| notmyname | mordred: we will not merge that for 1.9.0 | 21:31 |
| mordred | notmyname: ok | 21:31 |
| ttx | #topic Glance status | 21:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Glance status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:32 | |
| ttx | markwash: o/ | 21:32 |
| markwash | hello! | 21:32 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/glance/+milestone/havana-2 | 21:32 |
| * markwash just ran ttx.sh :-/ | 21:32 | |
| ttx | Slow progress overall... | 21:32 |
| ttx | markwash: was wondering if membership-policy should be considered complete with the merge of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29296/ | 21:32 |
| markwash | ttx yes | 21:32 |
| ttx | ok will do | 21:32 |
| ttx | iccha has two high-prio blueprints (api-v2-property-protection, upload-download-workflow) and none of those appears to be started... | 21:33 |
| markwash | upload-download-workflow has been split up | 21:33 |
| markwash | and I just need to remove it | 21:33 |
| markwash | which is not to say we don't have a bandwidth problem at this point | 21:33 |
| markwash | but i have some very specific work commitments from a lot of the contributors I am tracking | 21:33 |
| ttx | ok | 21:34 |
| ttx | Same for alex-meade and async-glance-workers, not started | 21:34 |
| markwash | I can start taking a guess at what will pop off of havana at this point | 21:34 |
| markwash | ttx I'm actually the blocker on that bp | 21:34 |
| markwash | and it is in progress | 21:35 |
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| ttx | ok, will mark it started then | 21:35 |
| ttx | Note that you have two DB blueprints proposed at: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/havana/+setgoals | 21:35 |
| ttx | On the critical bugs side, you have: https://bugs.launchpad.net/glance/+bug/1155389 | 21:35 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1155389 in swift "Multi-tenant swift store image sharing doesn't work" [Undecided,In progress] | 21:35 |
| ttx | Do you still need Swift input there ? | 21:35 |
| markwash | ttx: yes, I saw some patches proposed that would fix things | 21:36 |
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| markwash | basically what is needed there is for swift acls to come in line with their api documentation | 21:36 |
| ttx | ok, wel we'll see if they make 1.9.0 | 21:37 |
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| ttx | markwash: anything you wanted to mention ? | 21:37 |
| markwash | not at this time, thank you | 21:37 |
| ttx | Questions on Glance ? | 21:37 |
| ttx | #topic Cinder status | 21:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cinder status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:38 | |
| ttx | jgriffith: hola! | 21:38 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/havana-2 | 21:38 |
| jgriffith | hey ya | 21:38 |
| jgriffith | making progress :) | 21:38 |
| ttx | Good progress overall, nothing critical on the list | 21:38 |
| jgriffith | Nope, all med's and lows | 21:38 |
| ttx | You should encourage people to submit early :) | 21:38 |
| jgriffith | except bugs | 21:38 |
| jgriffith | trying :) | 21:38 |
| ttx | you have 3 blueprints proposed @ https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/havana/+setgoals | 21:39 |
| jgriffith | I've already threatened a Cinder dealine one week prior | 21:39 |
| jgriffith | aye | 21:39 |
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| jgriffith | I need to start checking those on more regular basis (people keep sneaking things in) | 21:39 |
| ttx | (fwiw what i have in mind for bluepritns would get us rid of having to check for those "proposed" things) | 21:39 |
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| markwash | ttx +1 | 21:39 |
| jgriffith | yay! | 21:40 |
| jgriffith | So the netapp one is under review, that's easy | 21:40 |
| jgriffith | The second and third I have to talk to folks | 21:40 |
| ttx | ack | 21:40 |
| jgriffith | Not sure about those, and they seem big at this point | 21:40 |
| ttx | jgriffith: anything on your mind ? | 21:40 |
| jgriffith | I'm good | 21:40 |
| ttx | Questions on Cinder ? | 21:40 |
| ttx | #topic Nova status | 21:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Nova status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:41 | |
| ttx | russellb: hey | 21:41 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/havana-2 | 21:41 |
| ttx | Progress is not looking too bad, given the total number of blueprints... | 21:41 |
| russellb | hi | 21:41 |
| russellb | yeah, it's still all over the place | 21:41 |
| russellb | but i think we'll have a good amount of stuff delivered for havana-2 | 21:41 |
| ttx | Lots of stuff in review already though | 21:41 |
| russellb | yeah | 21:41 |
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| ttx | Random remark: db-api-tests-on-all-backends (High) depends on db-sync-models-with-migrations (Medium) | 21:42 |
| russellb | havana-3 is very very light compared to this | 21:42 |
| ttx | that will give time to plug feature gaps | 21:43 |
| russellb | will fix | 21:43 |
| ttx | russellb: anything else you wanted to mention ? | 21:43 |
| russellb | nope, don't think so, thanks | 21:43 |
| ttx | Any question on Nova ? | 21:43 |
| russellb | review all the things | 21:43 |
| ttx | #topic Heat status | 21:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Heat status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:43 | |
| ttx | shardy: o/ | 21:43 |
| shardy | hi! | 21:44 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/havana-2 | 21:44 |
| ttx | Looks like you're a bit behind... | 21:44 |
| ttx | In particular there are 4 "high" prio blueprints apparently not started yet ? | 21:44 |
| ttx | (json-parameters, resource-properties-schema, resource-template, stack-metadata) | 21:44 |
| shardy | I need to sync up with a few people at our meeting tomorrow, I think some of those at least are actually started | 21:44 |
| ttx | ok | 21:44 |
| shardy | we have a much lighter h3, so I'll start deferring those which are not | 21:45 |
| ttx | Random remark: native-in-instance-tools should have a priority | 21:45 |
| shardy | ok, will fix | 21:45 |
| ttx | Looking at critical bugs I found https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1192125 | 21:45 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1192125 in heat "Autoscaling doesn't detect failed instance creation" [High,Triaged] | 21:45 |
| ttx | which is now "High" :) | 21:45 |
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| shardy | Yep, I found that today, reduced to high as it was pointed out we've always done it.. | 21:45 |
| ttx | ok then :) | 21:46 |
| shardy | I initally thought it was a regression caused by recent changes | 21:46 |
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| ttx | shardy: anything else you want to raise ? | 21:46 |
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| shardy | no don't think so, thanks! | 21:46 |
| ttx | Questions about Heat ? | 21:47 |
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| ttx | #topic Horizon status | 21:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Horizon status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:47 | |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: o/ | 21:47 |
| gabrielhurley | \o | 21:47 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/havana-2 | 21:47 |
| ttx | Looks on track, though it could use more final landings | 21:47 |
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| ttx | Should "hacking" be considered complete with the merging of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/32217/ ? | 21:48 |
| gabrielhurley | gonna admit, I'm not as up-to-date on where things are as usual... the last two weeks have been hectic for me. | 21:48 |
| gabrielhurley | I need to check in with everyone at the Horizon meeting after this | 21:48 |
| ttx | ok | 21:48 |
| gabrielhurley | Hacking has 3 main components, I'd have to make sure all three were taken care of | 21:48 |
| ttx | Could you check for me the status of the 3 "high" prio not started yet: realtime-spec, rpc-listener, rbac | 21:48 |
| gabrielhurley | yeah. two of those are me. | 21:49 |
| gabrielhurley | :-/ | 21:49 |
| ttx | You also have one "proposed" @ https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/havana/+setgoals | 21:49 |
| gabrielhurley | status is they're not started but I still think they're doable | 21:49 |
| gabrielhurley | hmmm... interesting | 21:49 |
| gabrielhurley | hadn't noticed that one | 21:49 |
| ttx | we should have abetter view on h2 by next week | 21:49 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: anything you wanted to mention ? | 21:49 |
| gabrielhurley | don't see any code proposed so probably not a target for H, but will follow up with the author | 21:50 |
| gabrielhurley | not really, I have some catching up to do. next week things will be eveident again. | 21:50 |
| ttx | Questions on Horizon ? | 21:50 |
| ttx | #topic Incubated projects | 21:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Incubated projects (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:50 | |
| ttx | I know devananda is not around, is hub_cap here ? | 21:51 |
| hub_cap | heyo | 21:51 |
| ttx | Ironic stats is "in the middle of implementing several large BP's" | 21:51 |
| hub_cap | im here in spirit mostly, i have no electricity in my house :o | 21:51 |
| ttx | hub_cap: is the trove rename completed ? | 21:51 |
| hub_cap | the rename is mostly done | 21:51 |
| hub_cap | we are still dealing w/ the module rename tho, the scripts / tooling is updated | 21:52 |
| * ttx looks into jenkins jobs | 21:52 | |
| hub_cap | ill finish the trove module rename in the next 24~hrs | 21:52 |
| hub_cap | also ttx the BPs didnt update like we chatted about yest but we can take that offline | 21:52 |
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| hub_cap | we are also workig on clustering api (multimaster, master/slave) | 21:52 |
| ttx | jenkins jobs look up to date to me | 21:53 |
| ttx | BPs updating ? | 21:53 |
| ttx | (we have time, we can talk about it now) | 21:53 |
| hub_cap | example, clikc the "implements blueprint" https://review.openstack.org/#/c/33412/ | 21:54 |
| ttx | is there a BP named that way ? Couldn't find it | 21:54 |
| * hub_cap smacks his head | 21:55 | |
| ttx | hehe | 21:55 |
| hub_cap | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/python-troveclient/+spec/reddwarf-trove-rename | 21:55 |
| hub_cap | its in teh client | 21:55 |
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| hub_cap | we need to do something to that to make up for it? | 21:55 |
| ttx | see https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack/?searchtext=volume-usage | 21:55 |
| ttx | hmm | 21:55 |
| ttx | You can fix the commit message if you have a blueprint to point it to | 21:56 |
| ttx | or create the missing blueprint | 21:56 |
| ttx | I for one would like to know when that's completed :) | 21:56 |
| jgriffith | hub_cap: lame idea maybe, but to start why not just use cinderclient and get the volume | 21:56 |
| jgriffith | hub_cap: then you'll have everything | 21:57 |
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| ttx | jgriffith: highlighting on "volume", i see :) | 21:57 |
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| hub_cap | HA | 21:57 |
| jgriffith | :) | 21:58 |
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| ttx | hub_cap: anything else ? | 21:58 |
| ttx | questions ? | 21:58 |
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| hub_cap | nope im good | 21:58 |
| ttx | cool then, | 21:58 |
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| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 18 21:58:45 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-06-18-21.01.html | 21:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-06-18-21.01.txt | 21:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-06-18-21.01.log.html | 21:58 |
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| jpich | Horizon meeting? gabrielhurley? | 22:07 |
| gabrielhurley | yep, sorry | 22:07 |
| gabrielhurley | #startmeeting horizon | 22:07 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 18 22:07:32 2013 UTC. The chair is gabrielhurley. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:07 |
| jpich | no worries | 22:07 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:07 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 22:07 |
| gabrielhurley | Hi folks | 22:07 |
| timductive | Hi | 22:08 |
| jcoufal | hey everybody | 22:08 |
| david-lyle | hello | 22:08 |
| jpich | hello | 22:08 |
| gabrielhurley | if you can't tell, I'm less on top of things today than I'd like, so I'm gonna mostly ask for status updates to try and get a grasp on it all | 22:08 |
| BrooklynChen | hey | 22:08 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic overview | 22:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "overview (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:08 | |
| gabrielhurley | overview-wise, we're about halfway through H2, and the blueprints seem about half-done as far as I know, so that's reasonable. | 22:08 |
| gabrielhurley | Summit registration codes have started going out for any of you thinking of heading to Hong Kong in November | 22:09 |
| gabrielhurley | The hacking discussion and subsequent patches have been good. | 22:09 |
| gabrielhurley | I can't think of anything else meta-level. | 22:09 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic blueprints | 22:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:10 | |
| gabrielhurley | Let's just go around and give an update on what we're working on and where it's at | 22:10 |
| gabrielhurley | (just start typing and post when you feel is appropriate)... | 22:10 |
| timductive | I'm a little new here but I'm working on a Heat Resource Topology that is dependent on the Heat UI blueprint currently in Code Review | 22:11 |
| gabrielhurley | as for me: I spent the time I had the last two weeks playing with Heat, and I have a very good understanding of where it's at and how to do things with it. filed a number of bugs. still need to do a little more work on the Horizon code, but that's where that's at. | 22:11 |
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| gabrielhurley | timductive: heh. see my post just before yours. | 22:11 |
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| timductive | haha, yeah | 22:11 |
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| gabrielhurley | as for my other two blueprints, the realtime-spec is in limbo 'cuz I haven't looked at the realtime proof-of-concept that was put together yet, and the RPC listener is high on my to-do list but I haven't started it yet. | 22:12 |
| kspear | gabrielhurley: is the plan to have the current heat ui review merged as is? apparently you plan to improve the workflow size of things? | 22:12 |
| kspear | *side | 22:12 |
| gabrielhurley | kspear: yeah, I'm hacking on it a little bit. | 22:12 |
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| timductive | I'm curious what improvements to the Workflow system are being planned | 22:13 |
| gabrielhurley | mostly just around the flow for entering the parameters defined by the template | 22:13 |
| kspear | gabrielhurley: with the current review things aren't great from a UX perspective | 22:14 |
| timductive | making separate HTML forms per tab? | 22:14 |
| gabrielhurley | kspear: agreed. hence the plans to improve | 22:14 |
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| gabrielhurley | timductive: it'll be more multi-step | 22:15 |
| jcoufal | si there any blueprint for it? | 22:15 |
| gabrielhurley | jcoufal: it's part of the bar for entry on the "heat UI for managing stacks" blueprint | 22:15 |
| gabrielhurley | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/heat-ui | 22:15 |
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| david-lyle | I tried running the heat code today and it throws an exception on the index view | 22:16 |
| jcoufal | ok, so is it going to be real a workflow (sequence of step) instead of multiform? | 22:16 |
| david-lyle | the code needs some love | 22:16 |
| gabrielhurley | I'm just gonna say "yes" to both of you. ;-) | 22:16 |
| gabrielhurley | this is why I've picked up that code myself | 22:16 |
| timductive | Well let me know if there is room to help, I'm 100% on heat ui at the moment | 22:17 |
| jcoufal | gabrielhurley: great, do we have some UX proposals for that? | 22:17 |
| gabrielhurley | cool | 22:17 |
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| gabrielhurley | jcoufal: not really. I have some ideas and intend to generally just prove it out. we can iterate on the specific UX in H3. | 22:17 |
| gabrielhurley | BrooklynChen, jpich, bradjone1|away: you were gonna sync up on on ceilometer stuff... any update there? | 22:18 |
| gabrielhurley | david-lyle, lcheng: how's the keystone stuff? | 22:18 |
| BrooklynChen | the refactoring of ceilometer code is almost done. I a question, where can I put the css file of bootstrap-datepicker.js? | 22:18 |
| david-lyle | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/domain-context is ready for r eview, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/multiple-service-endpo ints is ready for review for the high level region picking, subsequent indiv idual endpoint selection will build on that once it's in and I will start ht tps://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/rbac next week | 22:18 |
| lcheng | For Domain login support - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/login-domain-support, it is still blocked by keystoneclient v3 auth support. | 22:18 |
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| lcheng | Keystone patch is getting close to be merge though: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/21942/ | 22:18 |
| gabrielhurley | BrooklynChen: I'd put it in horizon/static/lib | 22:19 |
| gabrielhurley | david-lyle: awesome. I'll look at those this week. | 22:19 |
| jcoufal | gabrielhurley: ok. I just think we need both - multiform as well as sequence of steps. I wanted to raise this question earlier, but I'm glad you are working on that | 22:19 |
| gabrielhurley | lcheng: anything I can do to help with pushing the v3 auth forward, or have you got it under control? | 22:20 |
| BrooklynChen | gabrielhurley: okay. another one, should I merge the summary table of ceilometer with the usage table? | 22:20 |
| gabrielhurley | BrooklynChen: without seeing it explicitly to know for sure my gut feeling is "yes" | 22:20 |
| lcheng | gabrielhurley: I got under control. I already got a +2, it's pretty close. :-) | 22:20 |
| jpich | If that's on the overview page, it means it's going to be quite slow whenever someone logins since that's the landing page? | 22:20 |
| gabrielhurley | lcheng: great! | 22:21 |
| gabrielhurley | jpich: good point. maybe a better idea to make that an early target for the realtime/async stuff | 22:21 |
| gabrielhurley | either that or just make that a plain ol' ajax-based bit of code | 22:22 |
| gabrielhurley | let it load asynchronously without the fanciness... | 22:22 |
| gabrielhurley | I could go with any direction there | 22:22 |
| timductive | +1 on ajax-ing it in, if it affects performance noticeable | 22:22 |
| jpich | Sounds good | 22:22 |
| BrooklynChen | gabrielhurley: query the date with ajax. +1 | 22:23 |
| david-lyle | +1 here too | 22:23 |
| gabrielhurley | cool | 22:23 |
| gabrielhurley | anybody want to speak for Quantum currently? What's happening with FWaaS and Security Groups? | 22:23 |
| gabrielhurley | (I'll email the quantum folks if nobody speaks up now) | 22:23 |
| david-lyle | anything to speed up the overview pages, or at least not slow them down further is appreciated | 22:23 |
| gabrielhurley | david-lyle: agreed. also they're prone to *not* loading if something goes down. | 22:23 |
| gabrielhurley | anybody else with blueprint updates in general? I hit most of the big ticket ones but all updates are welcome. | 22:24 |
| gabrielhurley | okay. we can come back to it if anybody speaks up later. | 22:25 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic bugs | 22:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:25 | |
| gabrielhurley | I want to mention a couple items real quick | 22:25 |
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| gabrielhurley | https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1191050 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1191051 got filed as vulnerabilities but are in fact just items we should better document since Django already solves them. | 22:26 |
| gabrielhurley | Figured I'd point them out here for any of you who are security-minded in your own deployments. | 22:26 |
| gabrielhurley | Also of note, most of the Keystone bugs that were plaguing us have been fixed now, so that's good. | 22:27 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic open discussion | 22:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:27 | |
| gabrielhurley | That's what I've got... | 22:27 |
| gabrielhurley | I have a feeling jcoufal is hanging out to talk about the github vs. g+ UX forum topic? | 22:28 |
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| jcoufal | gabrielhurley: right :) | 22:28 |
| gabrielhurley | go for it | 22:28 |
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| jcoufal | I wanted to bring out question about right place for UX discussions | 22:28 |
| gabrielhurley | though it's nice to have you here representing UX concerns in general ;-) | 22:28 |
| jcoufal | currently there is community activity on Google+ | 22:28 |
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| jcoufal | however the format is not the best for broader discussions | 22:29 |
| jcoufal | gabrielhurley: thanks, happy to be part of it :) | 22:29 |
| jcoufal | si the proposal is to move the discussionon GitHub | 22:29 |
| jcoufal | and also store documents related to UX there | 22:29 |
| jcoufal | whole idea is captured in mail here: https://lists.launchpad.net/openstack/msg24345.html | 22:29 |
| jcoufal | there are also listed some concerns and benefits in the replies on this thread | 22:30 |
| jcoufal | any reflection from others? | 22:30 |
| mordred | so ... I'll have to admit I'm not 100% sure why github is a better choice for this than other things | 22:30 |
| mordred | other than potientiall: | 22:31 |
| mordred | * Issues have quite good options for text formatting. | 22:31 |
| mordred | * You can past image directly to the post. | 22:31 |
| mordred | are those the key things? | 22:31 |
| jcoufal | mordred: part of them, but plays big role | 22:31 |
| gabrielhurley | those are mostly it. the ability to crossreference commits is a semi-potential plus | 22:31 |
| jcoufal | I also feel, that G+ is partly disconnected from the main development source | 22:32 |
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| mordred | k. my biggest concerns is that it opens the door to completely unrelated set of tooling | 22:32 |
| mordred | well, yeah, I think g+ is also not great for the same reason | 22:32 |
| jcoufal | mordred: what do you see under "unrelated set of tooling"? | 22:32 |
| mordred | github | 22:33 |
| mordred | we don't use github currently | 22:33 |
| mordred | it would be a new set of tooling | 22:33 |
| gabrielhurley | we don't use github *directly* would be more accurate | 22:33 |
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| mordred | outside of the workflow, tooling, scope and governance of anything we currently do | 22:33 |
| mordred | right | 22:33 |
| mordred | we replicate to github | 22:33 |
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| gabrielhurley | mordred: nothing we currently use in our toolchain has even the remotest usefulness for UX/design dicussions | 22:34 |
| gabrielhurley | so adding a new tool is somewhat inevitable if we're gonna fill this gap at all | 22:34 |
| jcoufal | right | 22:34 |
| jcoufal | my thinking was | 22:34 |
| mordred | I hear that - and I'm mainly trying to engage on that subject to see in what way we can be helpful there | 22:34 |
| jcoufal | that all the projects of OS are stored in github repositories anyway | 22:34 |
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| jcoufal | so having UX among that might be the closest possibility, and having the benefit with nicely organised discussions etc might be nice | 22:35 |
| timductive | Github is definitely more visible, for newcomers like me :) | 22:35 |
| gabrielhurley | it's one of those funny "unless you're a developer and have had to deal with launchpad/gerrit it sure *looks* like OpenStack uses GitHub..." ;-) | 22:35 |
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| mordred | I think I'm actually more concerned that by using github, we confuse the issue for newcomers who do not grok that we don't use github. | 22:36 |
| mordred | gabrielhurley: yeah. I know. :) | 22:36 |
| mordred | gabrielhurley: I, for one, would not mind removing our github replicas for exactly that reason | 22:36 |
| mordred | but we might be diverging there | 22:36 |
| gabrielhurley | yep, but the thing we *do* use (launchpad) is dreadful for design discussions | 22:36 |
| mordred | ++ | 22:36 |
| gabrielhurley | image support and text formatting are non-existent | 22:36 |
| jcoufal | I see | 22:36 |
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| mordred | just out of curiousity (because I really don't know the answer) | 22:37 |
| gabrielhurley | mordred: what, you'd go back to using bazaar? :-P | 22:37 |
| mordred | gabrielhurley: hah | 22:37 |
| mordred | gabrielhurley: no, I'd just turn off github replicas | 22:37 |
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| mordred | BUT - my question is - are there other examples of good systems for this type of discussion? | 22:37 |
| mordred | I'd sort of like to learn about what's good and bad | 22:37 |
| gabrielhurley | there are a lot of paid tools for this sort of thing | 22:38 |
| mordred | because there are recurring conversations about how launchpad fits in to things - and even if we move forward short-term iwth a github thing | 22:38 |
| gabrielhurley | I've used a few | 22:38 |
| mordred | I'd like to understand a long-term plan | 22:38 |
| mordred | if possible | 22:38 |
| gabrielhurley | the main issue is that design conversations and prototyping have very different requirements than general issue tracking | 22:38 |
| gabrielhurley | so it almost 100% necessitates its own tool in my experience | 22:39 |
| mordred | well, even that is good to know then | 22:39 |
| gabrielhurley | I've mostly been just trying to let the community find something that they likd thus far | 22:39 |
| mordred | do you know of any open source systems that are good at this? | 22:39 |
| jcoufal | my other concern is also to get that tool as close to developers as possible and also make that easy to use for creative people | 22:40 |
| gabrielhurley | not offhand. in the "not-opensource" arena I've recently used Notable and Invision to some degree of success. | 22:40 |
| mordred | k. | 22:40 |
| mordred | I have concerns about hosting portions of openstack dev on non-opensource tools run by companies that have a history of not caring out us | 22:41 |
| gabrielhurley | but jcoufal makes a good point that finding and easily-accessible tool that's a halfway point for devs and designers is an interesting challenge. | 22:41 |
| mordred | obviously, though, I want you guys to have the tools you need | 22:41 |
| gabrielhurley | mordred: same. I'd rather avoid it. | 22:41 |
| clarkb | forgive my ignorance of the needs but does something like our wiki not allow for formatting like github does? | 22:42 |
| gabrielhurley | GOD NO | 22:42 |
| mordred | can we perhaps take a little bit and see if there's an open source thign that might work? even if it's something like redmine that might seem like duplication of effort at first. I'll do what I can to dig up possibilities for folks to check out | 22:42 |
| gabrielhurley | clarkb: wikis are absolutely horrendous for discussion | 22:42 |
| clarkb | oh I see the desire is discussion with mock ups | 22:42 |
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| gabrielhurley | discussion/feedback/revving a concept | 22:42 |
| clarkb | yeah ok | 22:42 |
| clarkb | wiki would be bad for that | 22:42 |
| gabrielhurley | mordred: sounds reasonable. I have a bad history with redmine though. ;-) | 22:43 |
| jcoufal | mordred: I agree, we can do broader research | 22:43 |
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| gabrielhurley | jcoufal: can you do a little research too? | 22:43 |
| mordred | gabrielhurley: oh yeah. I mean, I hate it - just saying | 22:43 |
| gabrielhurley | for sure :-) | 22:43 |
| jcoufal | mordred: would you mind writing your ideas to the thread in mailing list? | 22:43 |
| mordred | awesome | 22:43 |
| mordred | jcoufal: I'd be happy to | 22:43 |
| gabrielhurley | great! progress! | 22:43 |
| mordred | and I'll send you suggestions as I find them | 22:44 |
| mordred | and that way I'll learn more about what's good and what's bad | 22:44 |
| jcoufal | gabrielhurley: will do | 22:44 |
| jcoufal | perfect! thanks | 22:44 |
| mordred | whee! | 22:44 |
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| gabrielhurley | okay. anybody else got topics before I wrap the meeting? | 22:45 |
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| timductive | Yes, are there strong opinions about adding a 3rd party js library? | 22:45 |
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| jpich | FYI: Django 1.4 testing coming to a (voting) gate near you soon -- https://review.openstack.org/#/c/32884/ (thank you infra folks!) | 22:46 |
| timductive | I know there are a few in Horizon already | 22:46 |
| gabrielhurley | yes. what library? ;-) | 22:46 |
| timductive | kineticjs | 22:46 |
| timductive | Using it for canvas objects for the Heat Topology | 22:46 |
| timductive | unless there is something already in Horizon | 22:46 |
| fungi | jpich: you're welcome1 | 22:46 |
| gabrielhurley | hmmm... interesting. we've been aiming to use d3 generally | 22:46 |
| gabrielhurley | bradjone1|away has been leading that effort | 22:47 |
| timductive | ok | 22:47 |
| timductive | I'll take a look at it and see if it has the functionality that I need | 22:47 |
| gabrielhurley | there was talk about porting the existing network topology stuff to d3 and then making that reusable for visualizing stacks in heat | 22:47 |
| gabrielhurley | so I'd try to sync up with bradjone1|away and toshiyuki hayashi on all that | 22:47 |
| timductive | ok thanks | 22:47 |
| gabrielhurley | no problem. my main concern is I just don't want to end up with three ways to do the same thing. | 22:48 |
| timductive | yes, I agree | 22:48 |
| gabrielhurley | jpich: thanks for driving the testing stuff | 22:48 |
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| BrooklynChen | do we have documentation about logging in horizon now? | 22:48 |
| jpich | gabrielhurley: np! | 22:49 |
| gabrielhurley | not really. it uses django's logging, which is really python's logging | 22:49 |
| BrooklynChen | for non-developers, i think it's necessary tell them how to improve logging level or related hints | 22:50 |
| mordred | gabrielhurley, jcoufal: quick question - is a mailing list set up for hte purposes of ui discussions a possibility? | 22:50 |
| BrooklynChen | maybe just tell them to see how django do this | 22:50 |
| gabrielhurley | BrooklynChen: feel free to open a bug to improve the docs around that | 22:51 |
| BrooklynChen | ok | 22:51 |
| gabrielhurley | mordred: not really. the threading gets really messy and image sharing is bad. | 22:51 |
| mordred | gabrielhurley: k. thanks | 22:51 |
| gabrielhurley | np | 22:51 |
| jeblair | gabrielhurley: can you elaborate? | 22:52 |
| jeblair | gabrielhurley: i mean nobody ever likes how anything does threading. or doesn't do threading. depending on the thing. | 22:52 |
| gabrielhurley | jeblair: click through http://www.invisionapp.com/tour | 22:53 |
| jeblair | gabrielhurley: and what's bad about the image sharing? basically i see "we need a discussion tool that supports images" and mailing lists are a discussion tool that supports images. | 22:53 |
| gabrielhurley | that's the type of commenting fidelity that's ideal | 22:53 |
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| gabrielhurley | inline images are a must, commenting should be in order and ideally should support comment sub-threads without the incredibly crufty "comments inline" with a thousand nested arrows | 22:54 |
| gabrielhurley | you're dealing with visually-oriented people here | 22:54 |
| jeblair | gabrielhurley: thank you | 22:56 |
| gabrielhurley | yep yep | 22:56 |
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| gabrielhurley | jeblair, mordred: the best analogy is that it's the visual equivalent of how github/gerrit let you have separate discussions on specific lines of code | 22:57 |
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| mordred | gabrielhurley: so you want in-line code review comments - except for pictures | 22:57 |
| gabrielhurley | that's the ideal. see the not-free-and-not-open-source tools I mentioned ;-) | 22:57 |
| mordred | yeah. was just looking at that | 22:58 |
| gabrielhurley | something like github that allows inline images and organized, threaded discussion is a second-place | 22:58 |
| jcoufal | just addition - threaded discussion is still needed | 22:58 |
| gabrielhurley | okee doke. it's 4 PM, and I gotta run. feel free to continue discussing if you like, but I'm gonna close the meeting. | 22:59 |
| gabrielhurley | thanks everyone! | 22:59 |
| gabrielhurley | #endmeeting | 22:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 18 22:59:19 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-06-18-22.07.html | 22:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-06-18-22.07.txt | 22:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-06-18-22.07.log.html | 22:59 |
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| mordred | gabrielhurley: ping | 23:03 |
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