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| mestery | Folks, is anyone in this channel early for the ML2 meeting at 15:00UTC? I messed up, it's actually at 14:00UTC. :( | 14:25 |
|---|---|---|
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| mestery | If enough of a quorum is here, we can do the meeting now for the next 30 minutes, or just cancel this weeks. | 14:25 |
| apech | sure, let's do it | 14:27 |
| markmcclain | mestery: nobody has the room at 1500 | 14:28 |
| markmcclain | so we could still do it then unless you ahve a conflict | 14:28 |
| mestery | markmcclain: I thought xen-api did? Let me re-check/ | 14:28 |
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| markmcclain | ah they do | 14:28 |
| mestery | See here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings#XenAPI_team_meeting XenApi has it 15:00UTC Wednesday | 14:28 |
| markmcclain | they put a : in their time which why searching didn't find it | 14:29 |
| mestery | I hit that same problem while searching | 14:29 |
| mestery | :D | 14:29 |
| mestery | So, we do a quick one now if there are enough folks? | 14:29 |
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| apech | I have some questions I'd love to float by you on the MechansimDriver regardless | 14:29 |
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| mestery | apech: Cool, maybe we should just move forward with the meeting | 14:29 |
| markmcclain | could also roll over to openstack-meeting-alt | 14:30 |
| mestery | I see rkukura has joined too | 14:30 |
| apech | Looks like Bob just joined too | 14:30 |
| mestery | apech: jinx! :) | 14:30 |
| mestery | markmcclain: Good call! Should we just use openstack-meeting-alt in 30 minutes? | 14:30 |
| mestery | To let others join? I'll send an email to the list if so. | 14:30 |
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| markmcclain | I think that makes sense for today and then next week we can move to 1400 | 14:31 |
| rkukura | I'm here, but am on duty at the OpenStack "ask the experts" booth at Red Hat Summit, so don't be surprised if I am slow to respond. | 14:31 |
| mestery | markmcclain: Lets do it! I'll send emails to the list now. | 14:32 |
| apech | mestery: sounds great | 14:32 |
| mestery | So for folks here, we'll do the ML2 networking meeting on #openstack-meeting-alt in 30 minutes | 14:32 |
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| feleouet | Hmmm, sorry for the ML post, as nobody was speaking, I wasn't looking at this chan any more... | 14:38 |
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| mestery | feleouet: No worries, we'll use #openstack-meeting-alt in 20 minutes. | 14:41 |
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| * johnthetubaguy is watching the clock | 14:59 | |
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| johnthetubaguy | lol | 14:59 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #startmeeting xenapi | 14:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jun 12 14:59:56 2013 UTC. The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: xenapi)" | 14:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi' | 15:00 |
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| johnthetubaguy | no actions from last time, straight to blueprint | 15:00 |
| matel | ok | 15:00 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Blueprints | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: xenapi)" | 15:00 | |
| johnthetubaguy | so, quick show of hands, who is here? | 15:00 |
| matel | one | 15:00 |
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| johnthetubaguy | well, OK | 15:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | anything for the agenda? | 15:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | my plan was to talk about blueprints, and where we are at | 15:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I just added a new blueprint, I am kinda working on it | 15:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/xenapi-large-ephemeral-disk-support | 15:02 |
| matel | which one is that? | 15:02 |
| matel | ok | 15:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy | basically get big ephemeral disk, but split the space between lots of VDIs, because VDIs can't be bigger than 2TB | 15:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, other ones | 15:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | I have patches up for server-log stuff | 15:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/xenapi-server-log | 15:03 |
| bobba | yeah - they were looking good to me | 15:03 |
| bobba | :) | 15:03 |
| matel | Back to ephemeral | 15:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | but the detailed log management is a TODO, and still trying to get someone other than me to do that :) | 15:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | matel: sure | 15:03 |
| matel | I have a strange feeling about nova creating partitions. | 15:04 |
| matel | inside a guest disk. | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | why? | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | ephemeral are blank disks, created by nova | 15:04 |
| matel | I think it is not nova's job, it should be left to the user, that's all. | 15:04 |
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| matel | "In addition, which such large disks, we should allow admins to configure nova such that a partition is created on the disk" | 15:05 |
| bobba | brb - 1 sec | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | well, maybe, but the expectation is that they are created now, sadly that ship might have sailed | 15:05 |
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| johnthetubaguy | my plan is to start allowing the filesystem create be skipped, mostly because it will take ages | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, lets keep moving I guess | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/xenapi-guest-agent-cloud-init-interop | 15:06 |
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| johnthetubaguy | this one is taking some time, but I think we are slowing moving forward | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | spotted a bug in my patch to skip the agent per image, and uploaded a fix for that today | 15:07 |
| bobba | is there a block on it at all? | 15:07 |
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| johnthetubaguy | block on what? | 15:07 |
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| bobba | that bp | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | theres no blocker on it except people and effort really | 15:08 |
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| johnthetubaguy | its mostly testing still, just scoping out how the agent and cloud-init play together | 15:09 |
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| bobba | okay | 15:09 |
| bobba | cool | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | its mostly fine so far, just trying to get our test guys engaged | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool, so that is all the updates from me | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | I am feeling OK about getting that stuff in Havana | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | H-2 is going to be close, but might still happen, for the key bits anyways | 15:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | So questions for bobba and matel | 15:10 |
| bobba | I forget - when is H-2? | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Havana_Release_Schedule | 15:10 |
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| bobba | ah good | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | 18th July is when the branch is cut, so 11th July latest for code up there for any hope of hitting H-2 I would guess | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | so we have a few blueprints for H-2 that are not started yet | 15:11 |
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| johnthetubaguy | are we still happy for H-2 | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/xenapi-compute-driver-events | 15:12 |
| bobba | the event driver is likely to be H-3 | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/xenapi-move-driver-to-oslo | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, should we update that? | 15:12 |
| bobba | it might make H-2 but it's not a priority atm | 15:12 |
| bobba | moved | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | so thats a yes I guess | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | matel: what about the oslo work? | 15:13 |
| matel | Not started yet | 15:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | is that likley for H2? are you starting it soon? | 15:13 |
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| matel | No idea. | 15:14 |
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| johnthetubaguy | OK | 15:14 |
| matel | It's not in this sprint. | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | do you want that to make H? or not that high priority? | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | what is your sprint? | 15:14 |
| matel | Let's discuss this next week. | 15:15 |
| matel | You can file an action, if you like. | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | action for what? | 15:15 |
| matel | It is unlikely, that I will start it in the next 2 weeks. | 15:15 |
| matel | So let's say, it won't make H2. | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, which means not H2 | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | moved it to h3 | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | any other stuff people want to cover about work that is coming up? | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | i.e. not bugs | 15:16 |
| matel | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/31977/ | 15:16 |
| matel | Aligned to your comments. | 15:16 |
| matel | I think it got better. | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, cool | 15:16 |
| matel | Give it a +1 if you like it. | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | I will take a look after the meeting | 15:17 |
| matel | Do you have any idea how could we speed up quantum reviews? | 15:17 |
| matel | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/31077/ | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | not really I am afraid | 15:17 |
| matel | Okay. | 15:17 |
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| johnthetubaguy | well, you you could get the bug targeted and given a priority | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | best best is to ask people in the quantum IRC channel I guess | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | see what they think | 15:18 |
| matel | That's a good idea, I will try that. | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | have you seen this: | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link http://status.openstack.org/reviews/ | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | quite a few people use that, so gives you an idea of how people see the priority of your review | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | so lets move on | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | nothing on Docs this week I assume? | 15:20 |
| matel | nothing | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | will move to Bugs/QA | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Bugs and QA | 15:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs and QA (Meeting topic: xenapi)" | 15:20 | |
| bobba | right I'm afraid - although the docs are quite high on our backlog so they might make it into the next sprint (we're sprinting fornightly) | 15:21 |
| bobba | First news on bugs is that Euan has fixed the /sys/hypervisor/uuid bug! | 15:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | so smokestack died again | 15:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:21 |
| bobba | We worked around it for OS but that has been fixed now :) | 15:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, cool | 15:21 |
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| johnthetubaguy | any news on fixing smokestack, is DanP still really owning that? | 15:22 |
| bobba | I just sent a list | 15:22 |
| bobba | it's fixed | 15:22 |
| bobba | I just sent a mail to the list * | 15:22 |
| bobba | the hosts had run out of the 30 day trial license | 15:22 |
| bobba | I've applied a free license which means that VM can now be started | 15:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | arse | 15:23 |
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| johnthetubaguy | thanks for sorting that | 15:23 |
| bobba | I guess previously they were using the RS license | 15:23 |
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| bobba | which was very naughty | 15:23 |
| bobba | well - only slightly naughty. | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | well its in our DC, lol | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | but true | 15:24 |
| bobba | I'd forgotten that a fresh machine only had a trial license | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | no worries | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | the agent does ssh_key injection in the current openstack code, so that might help smokestack | 15:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | but anyways | 15:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | good to see it resolved | 15:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Open Discussion | 15:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: xenapi)" | 15:25 | |
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| bobba | I say resolved, but it's now in Dan's court :) | 15:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | any more for any more? | 15:25 |
| matel | no | 15:25 |
| bobba | yes | 15:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | fire away | 15:26 |
| bobba | I'll be going to the openstack infra bootcamp in new york on the 28th and 29th to talk about gating XenServer | 15:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:26 |
| bobba | or gating a XenAPI devstack/tempest test | 15:26 |
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| bobba | might need us to run devstack in dom0 for simplicity | 15:26 |
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| johnthetubaguy | you spoken to Rainya and crew who might go too? | 15:27 |
| bobba | I only found out about it last night :D | 15:27 |
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| johnthetubaguy | lol, OK | 15:27 |
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| bobba | I went to the infra IRC meeting and they said "Are you coming"? | 15:27 |
| bobba | The budget got approved about 60 minutes ago. | 15:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, I spotted an email about it, but nothing more | 15:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | so, run in Dom0 so its the same as KVM I guess | 15:28 |
| bobba | Not sure I've spoken to Rainya before have I? | 15:28 |
| bobba | yup - significantly easier to fit in the current CI architecture... doesn't have two IPs that it needs to care about... | 15:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | not sure, she is the manager of the deploy team who are looking into this stuff | 15:28 |
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| bobba | of course, we'll keep running in domU for the isolation case - but we can support both | 15:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | sure | 15:29 |
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| bobba | okay - would you mind sending an introductory email | 15:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | you guys going to look at running in Dom0 then? | 15:29 |
| bobba | Hopefully next sprint (but isn't that always the way?) | 15:29 |
| bobba | and we'll probably keep the default as domU | 15:29 |
| bobba | and there will always be good reasons to run in DomU (seperation, security, performance...) | 15:29 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so what about running Ubuntu 12.04 + xcp-api? | 15:30 |
| bobba | so it might not be a "supported" configuration but just used to test one aspect of XenAPI in the gate | 15:30 |
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| bobba | I'm very careful in saying XenAPI because I don't want to restrict the gate to being XenServer | 15:30 |
| bobba | we could run XenAPI (possibly ubuntu base, possibly centos or fedora) with nova in dom0 in the CI and XenServer with nova in a domU with cloudcafe :D | 15:31 |
| bobba | that'd be my ideal | 15:31 |
| bobba | maybe | 15:31 |
| bobba | :) | 15:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | well nothing is really supported, but things are tested to different degrees | 15:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | well I think ubuntu 12.04 base + xcp-api packages should work | 15:31 |
| bobba | yes - but we're also moving towards the brave new world of proper XAPI packages | 15:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | sure, but we want to catch OpenStack bugs | 15:32 |
| bobba | so if we can I'd like to get them running in the gate rather than the existing "legacy" packages | 15:32 |
| bobba | yes - they need to be stable first, of course - but they are well on the way | 15:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | this might be useful info: http://www.brw.com.au/p/tech-gadgets/rackspace_to_launch_opencloud_from_wnuHk6S8Ep49Uu3skHQ3HL | 15:33 |
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| johnthetubaguy | OK, sounds good | 15:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | any more? | 15:34 |
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| bobba | yay - it's official now :) | 15:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | well its official its coming soon | 15:34 |
| bobba | I did sympathise with Ant that he wasn't forced to fly out there to assist with setting it up | 15:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | lol | 15:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | #action johnthetubaguy to introduce bobba to the deploy team | 15:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think thats all now? | 15:35 |
| matel | y bye | 15:35 |
| matel | \quit | 15:35 |
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| bobba | great - thanks John | 15:36 |
| bobba | I'm done too | 15:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | same time next week? | 15:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | probably quick | 15:36 |
| bobba | sure | 15:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | thanks all | 15:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | #endmeeting | 15:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:37 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jun 12 15:37:42 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:37 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-06-12-14.59.html | 15:37 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-06-12-14.59.txt | 15:37 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-06-12-14.59.log.html | 15:37 |
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| seiflotfy_ | Akendo: | 15:51 |
| seiflotfy_ | ping | 15:51 |
| Akendo | seiflotfy_: pong | 15:51 |
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| mkoderer | hi | 15:51 |
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| Akendo | Hi | 15:52 |
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| seiflotfy_ | meeting in 3 minutes? | 15:57 |
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| jgriffith | #startmeeting cinder | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jun 12 16:00:15 2013 UTC. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:00 |
| jgriffith | Hey everyone! | 16:00 |
| thingee | o/ | 16:00 |
| zhiyan | hi | 16:00 |
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| mkoderer | hi | 16:00 |
| winston-d | hi | 16:00 |
| jgriffith | agenda for today: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings | 16:00 |
| xyang_ | hi | 16:00 |
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| bswartz | hello | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | One thing I'd like to ask, when folks add items to agenda do me a favor and put your name on there :) | 16:01 |
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| jgriffith | that way we know who's topic it is :) | 16:01 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: sure | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | and on that note... | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | #topic Ceph as option for backup | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ceph as option for backup (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:01 | |
| seiflotfy_ | hi | 16:02 |
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| jgriffith | I'm down with that, don't know who's proposal it is, but makes sense to me | 16:02 |
| Akendo | Hello | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | I'm curious how much effort is involved | 16:02 |
| thingee | jgriffith: it was seiflotfy_ | 16:02 |
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| seiflotfy_ | jgriffith its mine | 16:02 |
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| jgriffith | ie Ceph/Swift compatability should be pretty easy I would've thought | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | ahh.. | 16:02 |
| DuncanT | Given ceph can pretend to be swift, I think you get that for free now? | 16:02 |
| seiflotfy_ | so there are 2 ways to do it and i would like to discuss which one would fit better with upstream | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | seiflotfy_: anything specific you want to bring up? | 16:02 |
| thingee | seiflotfy_: I don't think anyone is opposed to the idea. Is there anything you need? | 16:03 |
| seiflotfy_ | 1) we use ceph swift api | 16:03 |
| Akendo | Indeed | 16:03 |
| Akendo | We just check how to do so | 16:03 |
| seiflotfy_ | 2) we actually add direct support for it in openstack | 16:03 |
| seiflotfy_ | (which would require a decent amount of code) | 16:03 |
| Akendo | We have to do some tests on it but in theory it should work easy | 16:03 |
| thingee | seiflotfy_: really that's your decision. :) | 16:03 |
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| thingee | seiflotfy_: I don't care either way, as long as it works | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | thingee: +1 :) | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | seiflotfy_: just curious what option #2 buys you over #1? | 16:04 |
| DuncanT | I'd certainly be interested in hearing how you get on with trying to implement a backup driver, if you go that route... | 16:04 |
| seiflotfy_ | thingee: well if we go with 1) then the coding might not even exist but more configuration | 16:04 |
| seiflotfy_ | it needs to be tested | 16:04 |
| thingee | seiflotfy_: yup | 16:04 |
| thingee | seiflotfy_: I was under the impression since it's a compatible api, there shouldn't be a problem | 16:05 |
| seiflotfy_ | in anyway I think i will start with 1) then later head to 2) | 16:05 |
| seiflotfy_ | since it wil lrequire some refactoring of the code | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | seiflotfy_: sounds like a good idea to me :) | 16:05 |
| jdurgin1 | seiflotfy_: I've been thinking adding an rbd or rados backup target that can do differential backups would be useful | 16:05 |
| thingee | yup sounds good | 16:05 |
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| seiflotfy_ | mkoderer: went through it and it looks like it will require some refactoring to not make swift the only hardcoded option | 16:05 |
| jdurgin1 | but trying 1) first makes sense to me | 16:05 |
| thingee | just flowing through the agenda | 16:05 |
| mkoderer | refactoring is needed for option 2) | 16:05 |
| mkoderer | 1) should work out of the box | 16:06 |
| DuncanT | seiflotfy_: Should be a single config option to change the backup target... ping me if it looks harder | 16:06 |
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| jgriffith | I think both options are good... I have no objections, don't think anybody else would either | 16:06 |
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| jgriffith | So, unless there are any questions? | 16:06 |
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| avishay | Hi all | 16:06 |
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| jungleboyj | Hey avishay. | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | avishay: yo | 16:07 |
| hemna | morning | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | Ok, next item | 16:07 |
| seiflotfy_ | ok cool can i take this task then | 16:07 |
| seiflotfy_ | ? | 16:07 |
| zhiyan | hi avishay, hemna | 16:07 |
| seiflotfy_ | me and mkoderer would do it | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | seiflotfy_: it's all yours :) | 16:07 |
| avishay | hi | 16:07 |
| mkoderer | ;) | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | seiflotfy_: You should link up with jdurgin1 when you get aroung to looking at option 2 | 16:08 |
| winston-d | avishay hi | 16:08 |
| zhiyan | hi hemna, could you pls share the progress about the brick implementation? | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | #topic brick status update | 16:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "brick status update (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:08 | |
| hemna | heh | 16:08 |
| avishay | winston-d: hi | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:08 |
| hemna | ok, well I have a WIP review up on gerrit | 16:08 |
| hemna | I believe I have the iSCSI code working now | 16:09 |
| hemna | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/32650/ | 16:09 |
| hemna | I am just doing some more testing and waiting for my QA guy to give me the thumbs up | 16:09 |
| zhiyan | including attach and/or detach code? | 16:09 |
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| * jgriffith wants his own QA person! | 16:09 | |
| hemna | yes, this is the iSCSI attach/detach code | 16:09 |
| hemna | heh | 16:09 |
| zhiyan | cool | 16:10 |
| avishay | haha | 16:10 |
| hemna | I've modified the base ISCSIDriver in cinder to use the new brick code and it works | 16:10 |
| xyang_ | hemna: works for copy image to volume as well, right | 16:10 |
| hemna | (for me) | 16:10 |
| Akendo | I could do some testing and QU and supporting seiflotfy_ and mkoderer | 16:10 |
| hemna | xyang_, haven't tried it yet | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | hemna: you mean on the attach | 16:10 |
| Akendo | QA* | 16:10 |
| Akendo | :-) | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | hemna: I moved the target stuff a while back :) | 16:10 |
| hemna | xyang_, I haven't modified the copy image to volume method yet to use brick...that's why it's a WIP still | 16:10 |
| avishay | hemna: there's an issue with nova that disconnecting from an iscsi target disconnects all LUNs...is that a problem here? | 16:10 |
| seiflotfy_ | +1 | 16:11 |
| hemna | avishay, if that's a bug in the current nova libvirt volume driver, then yes, it's a bug in this code | 16:11 |
| seiflotfy_ | :D | 16:11 |
| xyang_ | hemna: ok thanks | 16:11 |
| avishay | hemna: no it's not - libvirt keeps track of which VMs are using what, so they disconnect only if nobody is using | 16:11 |
| zhiyan | avishay: there is a check in nova libvirt volume detaching code... | 16:11 |
| avishay | hemna: do we need similar tracking? | 16:11 |
| hemna | avishay, yes, that code is in this brick code as well | 16:12 |
| zhiyan | avishay: yes | 16:12 |
| hemna | but we aren't attaching to VMs | 16:12 |
| avishay | hemna: sweet | 16:12 |
| hemna | we are just attaching to the host and using the LUN and then detaching it | 16:12 |
| avishay | hemna: i know, but we still may have multiple LUNs, right? | 16:12 |
| hemna | yes we'll have multiple LUNs | 16:12 |
| xyang_ | hemna: since copy image to volumes is from cinder, we may still have that problem | 16:12 |
| hemna | but we should only be detaching the LUNs we are done with at the time | 16:13 |
| xyang_ | hemna: cinder doesn't know what luns are attached | 16:13 |
| hemna | the way nova looks at the attached LUNs is inquiring the hypervisor | 16:13 |
| xyang_ | hemna: there's a log out call at the end if no luns attaches, that is one thing we don't know in cinder | 16:13 |
| hemna | we don't have a hypervisor in this case | 16:14 |
| avishay | so we probably need to track the connections ourselves | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | hemna: xyang_ but can't we add that through intiator queries? | 16:14 |
| hemna | well in our case it's always an attach, use, detach for a single LUN | 16:14 |
| hemna | we aren't attaching, then going away and then detaching at some later time. | 16:15 |
| dosaboy | sorry guys joining late here, if there is a moment at the end I have a few words on the ceph-backup bp | 16:15 |
| xyang_ | jgriffith: avishay and I discussed about that. so driver can find it out but cinder has to make an additional call | 16:15 |
| hemna | but if cinder dies in that serial process.... | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | hemna: states will fix that for us :) | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | cinder never dies!! | 16:15 |
| avishay | :) | 16:15 |
| hemna | so yes, we aren't currently tracking (storing in a DB) which LUNs we have have attached | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | I hate to go down the path of BDM type stuff in Cinder | 16:16 |
| hemna | yah | 16:16 |
| hemna | I'd like to keep this simple for the first round | 16:16 |
| avishay | what if we get two calls that attach at the same time? | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | +1 | 16:16 |
| hemna | it's already better than the code we copy/pasted from nova | 16:16 |
| hemna | that's existing in cinder now | 16:16 |
| hemna | avishay, lockutils | 16:16 |
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| avishay | i'm find with keeping it simple for the first pass, but we should keep these issues in mind | 16:16 |
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| hemna | yup! | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I hear ya | 16:17 |
| hemna | it's something we can mull over for H3 | 16:17 |
| avishay | hemna: works for me | 16:17 |
| DuncanT | avishay: Check out the code and raise a bug if you can see a specific scenario that would break it... | 16:17 |
| avishay | DuncanT: yup | 16:17 |
| hemna | as it stands today there are issues with the existing copy volume to image code that doesn't work | 16:17 |
| hemna | that I discovered in the process | 16:17 |
| hemna | like....we never detach a volume..... | 16:17 |
| hemna | :( | 16:17 |
| hemna | this WIP patch already addresses that issue. | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | Ok, the only other thing there (I think) is the LVM driver migration | 16:18 |
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| hemna | I saw another issue in the existing code that failed to issue iscsiadmin logins as well | 16:18 |
| avishay | hemna: there was no detach precisely because of the issue i raised | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | I am hoping to have that done here shortly | 16:18 |
| thingee | jgriffith, hemna: separate commit for the disconnect and backport? | 16:18 |
| hemna | avishay, that leads to dangling luns and eventually kernel device exhaustion. :( | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | After that we've got the key components in brick and we've got something consuming all of them | 16:18 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: hmmm? | 16:19 |
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| thingee | jgriffith: errr copy volume to image code not deataching | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | thingee: ahh... | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:19 |
| hemna | just for Grizzly backport ? | 16:19 |
| avishay | hemna: if nova and cinder are running on the same host, cinder might logout of nova luns | 16:19 |
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| thingee | hemna: yea | 16:20 |
| thingee | Oh I guess that was folsom too | 16:20 |
| thingee | hmm | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I'm still unclear on how this got so convoluted | 16:20 |
| hemna | can you issue a copy volume to image when a volume is attached to a VM ? | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | avishay: We *know* what lun we're using when we atttach for clone etc | 16:20 |
| xyang_ | there could be more than one luns on the same target, if we logout in copy image to volume, other luns can be affected | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | xyang_: understood, but since we know the lun why can't we log out "just" that lun | 16:21 |
| avishay | the problem is that when you logout, it disconnect ALL luns on the same target | 16:21 |
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| avishay | you can't log out of just one AFAIK | 16:21 |
| hemna | well logout is a separate issue from removing the LUN from the kernel | 16:21 |
| * winston-d checking connectivity | 16:21 | |
| jgriffith | right, but what I'm saying is I *believe* there's a way to do a logout on JUST the one session/lun | 16:21 |
| singn | this is how iscsiadm works when logs in to target | 16:21 |
| thingee | hemna: only grizzly. folsom just gets security fixes now | 16:21 |
| hemna | you can remove a LUN from the kernel by issuing an scsi subsystem command | 16:21 |
| avishay | maybe there is a better way than what nova does | 16:21 |
| hemna | w/o doing an iscsi logout | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | avishay: that's what I'm wondering | 16:22 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: xyang_ regardless... I'd propose we file a bug to track it (thought we already did though) | 16:22 |
| hemna | you don't need to do a logout to remove a lun | 16:22 |
| avishay | hemna: so remove from the kernel, then you can check if there are no more luns and logout? | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | and address it after we get hemna 's first version landed | 16:22 |
| xyang_ | jgriffith: I think avishay already logged a bug | 16:22 |
| hemna | you should only logout from an iscsi session when you are done with the host | 16:22 |
| avishay | jgriffith: there already is a bug | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | xyang_: avishay I thought so :) | 16:22 |
| hemna | avishay, yah there is a way I believe | 16:23 |
| avishay | OK, so there is a bug open, let's fix it in v2 | 16:23 |
| hemna | requires some smart parsing of kernel devices in /dev/disk/by-path and knowing the target iqns, etc | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | I guess the *right* answer is actually the opposite of what I just said | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | in order to do the backport correctly | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | fix it in the existing code now and backport, then move forward with the new common code | 16:23 |
| hemna | ok so we have like 3 issues here :) | 16:24 |
| hemna | 1) the detach in the existing cinder code | 16:24 |
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| hemna | 2) iscsi logout issues that can cause host logouts when LUNS are in use | 16:24 |
| hemna | 3) detaches from the kernel | 16:24 |
| avishay | FC is so much easier ;) | 16:24 |
| hemna | the important one here for now I think is the issue that thingee raised | 16:25 |
| hemna | :P | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | avishay: ha! Now that's funny | 16:25 |
| winston-d | avishay as long as you have HBA installed? | 16:25 |
| avishay | jgriffith: winston-d :) | 16:25 |
| hemna | I haven't started the FC stuff yet | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: avishay and you don't care about things like zoning | 16:25 |
| avishay | zoning shmoning | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | hemna: one thing at a time :) | 16:25 |
| hemna | I'll probably do another patch for the FC attach/detach migration into brick | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | avishay: :) | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | hemna: yes, please do them separately | 16:25 |
| hemna | yah that was the plan :) | 16:26 |
| seiflotfy_ | ah forgot dosaboy is working on theceph blueprint | 16:26 |
| avishay | anyway, looks like a good start - nice work | 16:26 |
| seiflotfy_ | so i will be trying to assist him then | 16:26 |
| hemna | the brocade guys are supposed to be working on the zone manager BP | 16:26 |
| winston-d | sorry, guys my network connectivity is very unstable today. | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | Ok... anything else on this topic? I think hemna has a good idea of the challenges and the point thingee brought up | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | #topic QoS and Volume Types | 16:26 |
| hemna | what should be the plan for the Grizzly detach issue ? | 16:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "QoS and Volume Types (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:27 | |
| hemna | ok nm we can hash it out in #openstack-cinder | 16:27 |
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| thingee | hemna: sounds good | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | hemna: I would have liked to have seen that addressed already TBH | 16:27 |
| hemna | yah, I didn't notice it until I started the brick work :( | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | hemna: but yes, we'll talk later between xyang_ hemna and whoever else is interested | 16:27 |
| hemna | +1 | 16:27 |
| xyang_ | sure | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | and avishay | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | sorry avishay you can't go home yet ;) | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | So... QoS | 16:28 |
| avishay | jgriffith: i'm already home :) | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | avishay: ;) | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | well then we're all set :) | 16:28 |
| winston-d | yes, QoS please. :) | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: where did you patch go? | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | ahh fond it | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | found | 16:29 |
| winston-d | it's here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29737/ | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/havana-2 | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | oops | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | sorry | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | yeah.. what winston-d said ^^ :) | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | I don't know how many of you have looked at this | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | but I had some thoughts I wanted to discuss | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | I think I commented them pretty well in the review but... | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | to summarize, I'm not crazy about introducing unused columns in the DB | 16:30 |
| kmartin | I have as well :) | 16:30 |
| winston-d | kmartin :) | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | and I'm not sure about fighting the battle of trying to cover every possible implementation/verbage a vendor might use | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | I had two possible alternate suggestions: | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | 1. Use metadata keys | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | This way the vendor can implement whatever they need here | 16:31 |
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| jgriffith | It's like a "specific" extra-specs entry | 16:31 |
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| thingee | jgriffith: +1, non-first class features should not be introducing changes to the model. | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | The other option: | 16:32 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: +1 seems like a sane solution | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | 2. Implement QoS - Rate Limiting and QoS - Iops setting | 16:33 |
| winston-d | jgriffith i have concerns about having vender specific implementation keys stored in DB for volume types, that makes volume types not compatible with other back-ends. | 16:33 |
| thingee | while I was working on the wsme stuff for the api framework switch, it made me realize how complex the volume object is becoming =/ | 16:33 |
| thingee | as jgriffith mentioned, we're half of what instances are in nova | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: actually... my proposal | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: would make it such that it's still compatable, just ignored | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: in other words if the keys don't mean anything to the driver it just ignores them | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: this creates some funky business with the filtering, but I think we can resolve that | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: just leave filter scheduling as a function of the "type" | 16:35 |
| thingee | the only thing drivers should agree on is the capability keys. | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | not QoS setting | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | thingee: I would agree with that | 16:35 |
| thingee | but... | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | The problem is I see little chance of us all agreeing on what QoS is and how to specify it | 16:35 |
| winston-d | thingee i agree as well, but i think QoS is among capabilities. | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: you're correct, but I think it's a "True/False" | 16:36 |
| avishay | You can't call it QoS - that term is overloaded. This is rate limiting. | 16:36 |
| DuncanT | Thought that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to get drivers to agree (i.e. point out inconsistencies at review time), jsut let the standards be defacto rather than prescribed... | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: and TBH I'm still border line on whether I count rate-limiting as QoS :) | 16:36 |
| * thingee thinks there should a way to extend capabilities if it's not a first class feature. | 16:36 | |
| avishay | I thought this is what we discussed at the summit :) | 16:36 |
| hemna | thingee, +1 | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | thingee: _1 | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | ooops | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | +1 | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: so the problem is... there's already an issue | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: For example, I use "minIOPS, maxIOPS and burstIOPS" | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | on a voume per volume basis | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | that can be changed on the fly | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | Other's use "limit max MB/s Read and limit max MB/s Write" | 16:38 |
| winston-d | folks, the QoS bp/patch was at first for client rate-limiting (aka, doing rate-limit at Nova Compute). so we have to deal with back-ends, as well as hypervisors. | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | While yet other use "limit IOPs" | 16:38 |
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| jgriffith | winston-d: indeed | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: but what I'm saying is maybe that should be "rate-limiting" and not QoS | 16:38 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: On-the-fly changes don't seem to fit within the framework we've discussed | 16:38 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: Nor per-volume limits (rather than per-type limits) | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: updates | 16:39 |
| hemna | so you would change those settings on the fly after the volume is created? | 16:39 |
| hemna | probably out of scope for this I would presume | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | hemna: Yes, that's something I need to be able to do | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | well... it's not something I'm asking winston-d to put in his patch | 16:40 |
| hemna | ah ok | 16:40 |
| DuncanT | I definitely feel that is not within the discussed framework, other than via retyping | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | bu it's something I'm keeping in mind with the design | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: correct | 16:40 |
| hemna | that smells like v2 to me | 16:40 |
| winston-d | hemna there's no reason why not if back-end/hypervisor supports run-time modification | 16:40 |
| avishay | winston-d: does libvirt support changing rate limit settings after the volume is attached? | 16:40 |
| hemna | like a volume type update or something like that | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: well... it's just like "update extra-specs" | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | hemna: I'd like to have it be the same volume-type | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | So the volume-type just tells what back-end to use | 16:41 |
| hemna | jgriffith, but in this case do you want to update the volume type here, or the specific volume instances's settings | 16:41 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: I don't think that changes existing volumes? | 16:41 |
| hemna | like for volume X, update it's IOPS settings now. | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | hemna: DuncanT so I don't want to kill the discussion on winston-d 's work here with my little problems :) | 16:42 |
| winston-d | avishay last time we checked, it should be able to do so. but I didn't try that out | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | but... | 16:42 |
| avishay | winston-d: ok | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | hemna: but yes, that's what I intend to do | 16:42 |
| hemna | that'd be cool :) | 16:42 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT: to start it most likely would have to be an update to the volume-type | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | so for example: volume-type: A, with QoS: Z | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | Update volume-type: A to have QoS: X | 16:43 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: That is entirely outside of any scope of QoS discussed so far... and is going to cause major issues in regards to even slightly trying to standardise behaviours between backends | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: why? | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: and BTW I've already submitted a patch for this back in Folsom | 16:43 |
| hemna | well I think it's a new feature that hasn't been discussed yet, but should be put in a new BP and scheduled. | 16:44 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: Because the possibility matrix explodes, as far as what backends can do what featyres | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: that's why I'm saying you don't hard code that shit | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: That's the whole point of using metadata keys | 16:44 |
| winston-d | if we perfer K/V pairs for QoS metadata, maybe we should have a set of fixed keys? | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: can you expand on that? | 16:44 |
| hemna | that's just the key standardization discussion all over again :) | 16:45 |
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| xyang_ | hema: 2 sessions at the summit:) | 16:45 |
| hemna | :) | 16:45 |
| avishay | and no conclusions, obviously | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | xyang_: hemna the good thing is it's paired own in terms of scope | 16:45 |
| hemna | true | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I think we tried to tackle too large of a problem in the summit sessions | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: can you tell me more about what you're thinking with the standard keys? | 16:46 |
| avishay | jgriffith: agreed. i also think that we failed to agree on simpler use cases than this. | 16:46 |
| winston-d | for example, KVM/libivrt only accepts total/read/write bytes/iops per sec. | 16:46 |
| guitarzan | we need to keep track of what we're discussing... | 16:47 |
| winston-d | so for a QoS setting requires client to do the enforcement, these keys must be there, at least 0 | 16:47 |
| guitarzan | we're confusing client side, backend, qos, capabilities | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: I get that | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: so that brings me back to thinking that we have two types of performance control | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | 1. Hypervisor rate-limiting | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | 2. Vendor/Backend implemented | 16:48 |
| winston-d | I think the whole idea behind the bp/patch is we try to find a way to express QoS requirements for volume types in Cinder, which can be consumed either by Nova or cinder back-ends. | 16:48 |
| rushiagr | winston-d: and that I guess is mixing 1 and 2? | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: indeed, but what I'm propsing is | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: haha.... I think we're thinking the same thing | 16:49 |
| avishay | s/QoS/rate limiting/g might make this issue easier to agree on | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: rushiagr so what if we had set keys for hypervisor limiting | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | and arbitrary K/V's for vendors | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | avishay: now that's more what I'm thinking!! | 16:50 |
| winston-d | avishay well, it was simply cliend-side rate limiting at first. :) | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I don't think we should treat rate limiting as QoS | 16:50 |
| thingee | 10 min warning | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | DOHHHH | 16:50 |
| guitarzan | suprrise | 16:50 |
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| jgriffith | I don't think we're going to agree on representation | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | But I do think we shoudl be able to agree on: | 16:51 |
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| jgriffith | 1. Should QoS and Rate Limiting be separate concepts | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | 2. Should QoS be abstract K/V pairs | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | thoughts on those two points? | 16:51 |
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| hemna | +1 to both | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: avishay thingee kmartin rushiagr ? | 16:52 |
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| DuncanT | I'm not convinced QoS and rate limiting are different concepts | 16:52 |
| rushiagr | +1 for 2 | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: they are | 16:52 |
| DuncanT | +1 on 2. though | 16:52 |
| xyang_ | +1 for 2 | 16:52 |
| thingee | yes | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | but I can argue with you over a beer on that one :) | 16:52 |
| winston-d | +1 for 2. | 16:52 |
| avishay | QoS means different things to practically everyone | 16:52 |
| hemna | yup | 16:53 |
| kmartin | I ok with #2 but #1 is the same as far as HP is concerned | 16:53 |
| avishay | I can say that Flash vs. HDD is QoS | 16:53 |
| guitarzan | do the decisions on 1 & 2 affect the client vs backend question? | 16:53 |
| rushiagr | the first one needs some more discussion i guess. Need to think more on the idea of separating hypervisor/backend stuff | 16:53 |
| hemna | kmartin, well HP 3PAR that is. | 16:53 |
| winston-d | guitarzan client side usually can only do rate-limiting, AFAIK | 16:53 |
| bswartz | QoS is more about guaranteed minimums than it is about maximums | 16:53 |
| guitarzan | avishay: we call those two different products | 16:53 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: Certainly it is a non-trivial argument space but ultimately the only sane conclusion is that they are the same class of thing :-) | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: that might help me win my argument :) | 16:53 |
| hemna | bswartz, +1 | 16:54 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: I'll buy the first round | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: I could go for that :) | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: :) | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | Ok.. one more minute on this | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | I think we all agree on #2 then | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | The only question is #1 | 16:54 |
| bswartz | +1 on both | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | I'm willing to compromise here I think | 16:54 |
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| jgriffith | Yay!!! bswartz | 16:54 |
| guitarzan | I think #1 and the client/backend question are easily bigger than "what keys" | 16:54 |
| winston-d | +2 for 1 if we shift QoS to 'I' release... | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | I think guitarzan makes a good point, what about separating client and backend | 16:55 |
| guitarzan | and here's my last off the wall idea | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: hmmm... that could hurt | 16:55 |
| guitarzan | maybe the client side stuff should be stuck on an "attachment" instead of the volume itself | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: I actually like that idea | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: I think it's come up before actually | 16:56 |
| winston-d | jgriffith never mind. i can do both for 1. | 16:56 |
| bswartz | winston-d: https://launchpad.net/~openstack/+poll/i-release-naming | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | What do others think of the separation of client/backend implemented? | 16:56 |
| winston-d | jgriffith +1 | 16:57 |
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| avishay | fine by me | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | cool! | 16:57 |
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| jgriffith | kmartin: you good? | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | hemna: ? | 16:57 |
| guitarzan | I think things may get refined after someone actually implements something | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: rushiagr ? | 16:57 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: But the end result is the same, whether the rate limit is enforced on hypervisor or backend | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: ? | 16:57 |
| guitarzan | s/think/hope/ | 16:57 |
| kmartin | +1 | 16:57 |
| haomaiwang | +1 | 16:58 |
| bswartz | I don't understand what the client side imlpementation has to do with cinder | 16:58 |
| hemna | +1 | 16:58 |
| winston-d | guitarzan https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29737/ | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: well.. backend become K/V's and client is "set" semantics that get in the DB | 16:58 |
| guitarzan | winston-d: touche :) | 16:58 |
| winston-d | bswartz just like volume encryption in client side. | 16:58 |
| avishay | slight difference - doing it in the hypervisor adds ratelimiting to the network connection as well | 16:58 |
| bswartz | clients are welcome to limit themselves, but it's not our business | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: fair point, but I like the idea of having that setting in Cinder via the attach | 16:59 |
| bswartz | winston-d: okay well I can see it from that pespective | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: and it allows us to keep from double implementing | 16:59 |
| guitarzan | shocker, our one minute is over :) | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: in other words set it on the backend and on the hypervisor | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | Darn you time!!! | 16:59 |
| DuncanT | bswartz: Like encryption, cinder is the single place to store this kind of info... and I'd really rather most customers don't see things like rate limiting | 17:00 |
| thingee | yup, that's time | 17:00 |
| bswartz | okay I take your points | 17:00 |
| thingee | see ya all in #openstack-cinder | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | Ok... suppose that will do it | 17:00 |
| DuncanT | Shall we move to the cinder channel? I know dosaboy still have a question... | 17:00 |
| bswartz | cinder does need to understand rate limitting | 17:00 |
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| winston-d | it always make me feel that I'm back to OSD when discussing standardizing things among back-ends. | 17:00 |
| winston-d | which is good. :) | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | :) | 17:01 |
| danwent | who's here for the vmware driver meeting? | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | alright, I need to wrap and go to my next meeting :( | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | #end meeting cinder | 17:01 |
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| danwent | jgriffith: ah, sorry, thought you were already done | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | #endmeeting cinder | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:01 | |
| hartsocks | Thanks for wrapping up guys. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jun 12 17:01:26 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-06-12-16.00.html | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-06-12-16.00.txt | 17:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-06-12-16.00.log.html | 17:01 |
| avishay | bye all! | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | danwent: no worries... all yours :) | 17:01 |
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| hartsocks | #startmeeting VMwareAPI | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jun 12 17:01:43 2013 UTC. The chair is hartsocks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| danwent | or all hartsocks :) | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi' | 17:01 |
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| hartsocks | #topic salutations | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "salutations (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:01 | |
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| hartsocks | Greetings programmers! Who's up for talking VMwareAPI stuff and nova? | 17:02 |
| danwent | i am :) | 17:02 |
| hartsocks | anyone else around? | 17:02 |
| hartsocks | HP in the house? | 17:02 |
| hartsocks | Canonical? | 17:02 |
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| kirankv | Hi ! | 17:02 |
| tjones | im here | 17:03 |
| danwent | man, its like we are trying to get reviews for our nova code :) | 17:03 |
| Divakar | Hi | 17:03 |
| hartsocks | *lol* | 17:03 |
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| hartsocks | ivoks, are you around? | 17:03 |
| danwent | looks like Sabari_ is here now | 17:03 |
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| Sabari_ | Hi, this is Sabari here. | 17:04 |
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| hartsocks | Okay... | 17:04 |
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| hartsocks | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/VMwareAPI#Agenda | 17:04 |
| hartsocks | Here's our agenda today. | 17:04 |
| hartsocks | Kind of thick. | 17:04 |
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| hartsocks | Since we started last week with bugs, I'll open this week with blueprints. | 17:05 |
| hartsocks | #topic blueprint discussions | 17:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprint discussions (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:05 | |
| hartsocks | I have a special note from the main nova team... | 17:05 |
| hartsocks | They would like us to look at: | 17:05 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/live-snapshots | 17:06 |
| hartsocks | This is a new blueprint to add live-snapshots to nova | 17:06 |
| med_ | hartsocks, Canonical is lurking | 17:06 |
| hartsocks | @med_ hey! | 17:06 |
| * hartsocks gives everyone a moment to scan the blueprint | 17:06 | |
| hartsocks | Do we have folks working on or near this blueprint? Can anyone speak to how feasible it is to get this done? | 17:07 |
| * hartsocks listens to the crickets a moment | 17:08 | |
| hartsocks | No comments on the "live-snapshots" blueprint? | 17:09 |
| hartsocks | note: I need to talk to the main nova team about this tomorrow and say "yes we can" or "no we can't" | 17:10 |
| Divakar | from a technical feasibility it is :) | 17:10 |
| hartsocks | What about person-power? Do we have someone who can take this on? | 17:11 |
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| hartsocks | #action hartsocks to follow up on "live-snapshots" to find an owner for the vmwareapi implementation | 17:12 |
| hartsocks | Okay, moving on... | 17:12 |
| danwent | hartsocks: would be good to check with our storage pm + eng folks on this. | 17:12 |
| danwent | do you know alex? if not, I can introduce you to him. | 17:13 |
| hartsocks | @danwent we should definitely follow up then… | 17:13 |
| hartsocks | Next blueprint: | 17:13 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/multiple-clusters-managed-by-one-service | 17:14 |
| hartsocks | How is this coming along? | 17:14 |
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| kirankv | uploaded a new patch set, got rid of many other minor improvements to make the patch set small for review | 17:15 |
| hartsocks | Looks like we need to look at your patch-set 7 collectively. | 17:15 |
| danwent | kirankv: great | 17:15 |
| danwent | kirankv: are unit tests added yet? | 17:15 |
| danwent | last i checked we were in WIP status waiting for those, but that was a while ago | 17:15 |
| kirankv | yes, I will run the coverage report and check and try adding if we have missed it for the new code added | 17:16 |
| danwent | great | 17:16 |
| hartsocks | I am looking to see coverage on any newly added code… in general, if you add a new method I want to see some testing for it. | 17:17 |
| hartsocks | I'll mention here that if you want me to track, follow up, or review you changes … add me as a reviewer: http://i.imgur.com/XLINkt3.png | 17:17 |
| hartsocks | This is chiefly how I will build weekly status reports. | 17:17 |
| hartsocks | Next up: | 17:17 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/hypervisor-templates-as-glance-images | 17:18 |
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| hartsocks | This is the VMware Templates as Glance images blueprint. | 17:18 |
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| kirankv | Im waiting for the multi-cluster to go through before submitting this one | 17:18 |
| hartsocks | It is currently slated for H-2 | 17:18 |
| hartsocks | Hm... | 17:19 |
| hartsocks | You can submit a patch and say Patch A depends on Patch B | 17:19 |
| hartsocks | There is a button.. | 17:19 |
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| hartsocks | I'll see about writing a tutorial on that for us. | 17:19 |
| kirankv | im only concered about rebasing two patchsets | 17:20 |
| hartsocks | You can cherry-pick Patch A for the branch you use for Patch B | 17:20 |
| hartsocks | It's a bit more than I want to go into in a meeting, but … there's a "cherry pick" button in gerritt | 17:20 |
| kirankv | even now i havent rebased the current patchset, and on openstack-dev mailing list I noticed that the preffered way is to rebase every patchset and submit | 17:20 |
| hartsocks | Sure. | 17:21 |
| hartsocks | These are not mutually exclusive activities. | 17:21 |
| hartsocks | Both are possible. | 17:21 |
| hartsocks | Both are preferably done together. | 17:21 |
| hartsocks | Our reviews are taking a long time. | 17:21 |
| hartsocks | Let's try and do reviews regularly. | 17:21 |
| hartsocks | I will start sending emails Monday and Friday to highlight patches that need review. | 17:21 |
| kirankv | ok, let me see if i can sublit a patch this week, | 17:22 |
| Divakar | reviews are going thru from a +1 perspective | 17:22 |
| kirankv | *submit | 17:22 |
| danwent | hartsocks: yes, and we also need to get more nova core developers reviewing our patches | 17:22 |
| Divakar | we need to get core reviewers attention | 17:22 |
| hartsocks | Let's make sure that we can say: | 17:22 |
| hartsocks | "If *only* more core developers gave their approval we would be ready" | 17:23 |
| hartsocks | Right now, this is not always the case. | 17:23 |
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| danwent | hartsocks: agree. we need to make life as easy as possible for the core reviewers by making sure the obvious comments have already been addressed before they spend cycles. | 17:23 |
| danwent | med_: who does canonical have a nova core dev? | 17:24 |
| Divakar | Arent all the nova reviews being monitored by nova core reviewers? | 17:24 |
| hartsocks | @Divakar they are but... | 17:24 |
| hartsocks | @Divakar it's like twitter… so much is happening it's easy to lose the thread | 17:24 |
| danwent | Divakar: in theory, there are just a LOT of them, so sometimes areas of the codebase that fewer people are familiar with get less love | 17:24 |
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| danwent | also is dansmith around and listening? | 17:24 |
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| danwent | i think he is a nova core who has attended the vmwareapi discussions before | 17:25 |
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| danwent | hartsocks: am i thinking of the right person? | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | @russellb are you there? | 17:25 |
| Divakar | We need to see if we can talk to russelb on how to get core reviewers to look into vmware related bps and bug fixes | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | @danwent I've talked with Russell the most. | 17:25 |
| danwent | hartsocks: yes, but PTLs are very busy :) | 17:26 |
| danwent | so definitely let's encourage him, but we also need to make sure others are paying attention to vmwareapi reviews as well. | 17:26 |
| hartsocks | @danwent yeah, we should probably bring him in rarely. | 17:26 |
| hartsocks | I think if we have 8 +1 votes and we are waiting for two +2 votes that looks pretty clear. | 17:27 |
| danwent | yes, but there's a reason we have core devs :) | 17:27 |
| hartsocks | I think it will also look like we are a concerted and coordinated effort. | 17:27 |
| danwent | anyway, i think we all agree on the need for more core reviews.. i am continuing to encourage people, and I'd appreciate help from anyone else who can do the same | 17:27 |
| Divakar | i was not asking for russelb's time.. as PTL he can let his core reviewers attention on these | 17:28 |
| hartsocks | Okay… let's agree that our followups should be to... | 17:28 |
| hartsocks | 1. get more core reviewers | 17:29 |
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| hartsocks | 2. be more vigilant on reviews/feedback cycles ourselves | 17:29 |
| Divakar | sending a mail with the link to the review asking for +2 might be other option when things are not working | 17:29 |
| hartsocks | @Divakar that has not worked favorably for me… | 17:29 |
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| hartsocks | Let's table this topic since we can't do more. | 17:30 |
| hartsocks | #action solicit participation in reviews by core-developers | 17:30 |
| hartsocks | #action get regular +1 reviews to happen more frequently | 17:31 |
| hartsocks | These are for me. | 17:31 |
| hartsocks | Last blueprint... | 17:31 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/improve-vmware-disk-usage | 17:31 |
| hartsocks | Has anyone followed up with the developer working on this? | 17:31 |
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| hartsocks | Anyone from Canonical follow up with Yaguang Tang? | 17:32 |
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| Daviey | hartsocks: hey | 17:33 |
| hartsocks | @Daviey hey, how are we doing? Will we meet H-2 deadline for this? | 17:33 |
| hartsocks | Remember: it can take *weeks* for the review process to work out. | 17:34 |
| hartsocks | That makes July 18th our H-2 deadline kind of "tight" by that rate of speed. | 17:34 |
| Daviey | Ugh | 17:34 |
| danwent | qustion on the blueprint, by "ephemeral disks", does tang mean thin provisioned, or something else? | 17:35 |
| Daviey | I will follow up with him | 17:35 |
| hartsocks | I solicited some help on "ephemeral disks" | 17:35 |
| hartsocks | I have two different understandings... | 17:35 |
| danwent | hartsocks: help a newbie out :) | 17:35 |
| hartsocks | 1. it's a disk that "goes away" when the VM is deleted | 17:35 |
| hartsocks | 2. It's a "RAM" disk | 17:36 |
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| danwent | ah, got it | 17:36 |
| hartsocks | Someone was going to follow up with the BP author on that... | 17:36 |
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| hartsocks | Okay... | 17:36 |
| hartsocks | #topic Bugs! | 17:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs! (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:36 | |
| hartsocks | Or "ants in your pants" | 17:37 |
| hartsocks | Tell me, first up.... | 17:37 |
| hartsocks | Are there any newly identified blockers we have not previously discussed! | 17:37 |
| hartsocks | ? | 17:37 |
| Daviey | Things look good? | 17:38 |
| danwent | https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=vmware | 17:38 |
| hartsocks | No *new* news is good news I suppose... | 17:38 |
| danwent | hartsocks: we're still having issues when more than one datacenter exists, right? | 17:38 |
| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1180044 | 17:38 |
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| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1180044 in nova "nova boot fails when vCenter has multiple managed hosts and no clear default host" [High,In progress] | 17:38 |
| danwent | and I haven't seen anyone looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1184807 | 17:38 |
| hartsocks | So I'll go... | 17:38 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1184807 in nova "Snapshot failure with VMware driver" [Low,New] | 17:38 |
| hartsocks | This is my status update on that. | 17:39 |
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| hartsocks | Chiefly, the bug root cause is... | 17:39 |
| hartsocks | once the driver picks a host... | 17:39 |
| hartsocks | it ignores the inventory-tree semantics of vCenter. | 17:39 |
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| hartsocks | This is the root cause for *a lot* of other bugs. | 17:39 |
| hartsocks | For example Pick HostA but accidentally pick a DataStore on HostB | 17:40 |
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| hartsocks | Or … in the case I first observed... | 17:40 |
| Sabari_ | Yes, I agree with hartsocks | 17:40 |
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| hartsocks | Pick HostA then you end up picking a Datastore on HostB which is in a totally different datacenter | 17:40 |
| hartsocks | This also indirectly applies to Clustered hosts not getting used... | 17:41 |
| hartsocks | and is related to "local storage" problems in clusters... | 17:41 |
| hartsocks | (but only because it's the same basic problem of inventory trees being ignored. | 17:41 |
| hartsocks | ) | 17:41 |
| hartsocks | I'm currently writing a series of Traversal Specs to solve these kinds of problems. | 17:41 |
| Sabari_ | I am working on the bug related to resource pool and I figure out the root cause is the placement of VM within a VC is still unclear to the driver | 17:42 |
| hartsocks | I hope to post shortly. | 17:42 |
| hartsocks | @Sabrari_ post your link | 17:42 |
| Sabari_ | https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1105032 | 17:43 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1105032 in nova "VMwareAPI driver can only use the 0th resource pool" [Low,Confirmed] | 17:43 |
| danwent | ok, let's make sure this gets listed as "critical" | 17:43 |
| danwent | whichever bug we decide to use to track it. | 17:43 |
| hartsocks | #action list 1105032 list as critical ... | 17:44 |
| hartsocks | #action list 1180044 as critical | 17:44 |
| hartsocks | Okay. | 17:44 |
| hartsocks | BTW…. | 17:44 |
| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1183192 | 17:44 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1183192 in nova "VMware VC Driver does not honor hw_vif_model from glance" [Critical,In progress] | 17:44 |
| kirankv | @Sabari: how are we deciding which resource pool to pick? | 17:44 |
| Sabari_ | We can obviously allow the driver to be placed in a resource pool specified by the user, but still we need to figure out a way to make a default decision. | 17:44 |
| Sabari_ | Currently, we don't. VC places the VM in the root resource pool of the cluster | 17:45 |
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| hartsocks | This is one of those behaviors which might work out fine in production if you just know that this is how it works. | 17:46 |
| kirankv | arent we moving scheduling logic into the driver by having to make such decisions? | 17:46 |
| hartsocks | Of course, it completely destroys the concept of Resource Pools. | 17:46 |
| hartsocks | @kirankv yes… we have several blueprints in flight right now that are essentially doing that. | 17:47 |
| Sabari_ | Yes, it depends on the admin and the way he has configured VC. If one chooses not to use Resource Pools, he stays fine with the existing setup. | 17:47 |
| kirankv | well the blueprints leave the decision to the scheduler, the driver only makes available resource pools also as compute nodes | 17:48 |
| Divakar | in a way managing resource pool as compute is resolving this | 17:48 |
| hartsocks | We have two time-lines to think about. | 17:48 |
| hartsocks | 1. near-term fixes | 17:48 |
| hartsocks | 2. long-term design | 17:49 |
| med_ | danwent, sorry. That would be yaguang as core nova | 17:49 |
| Divakar | I dont think we need to worry about the default resource pool in a cluster | 17:49 |
| Divakar | let the cluster decide where it wants to place the vm | 17:50 |
| danwent | med_: ah, thanks, didn't realize he was a core. great to hear, now we just need more review cycles from him :) | 17:50 |
| med_ | :) | 17:50 |
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| Divakar | in case option of placing it in a resource pool is required, then lets address that through representing the resource pool as compute | 17:50 |
| Sabari_ | I will take a look at the blueprint and the patch sets | 17:50 |
| kirankv | @Sabari: would like to see your patch set too since it addresses the bug | 17:51 |
| hartsocks | Is this about ResourcePools or ResourcePools in clusters? | 17:51 |
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| Sabari_ | @kirankv Sure, I am working on it. | 17:52 |
| Divakar | if we start putting the scheduler logic inside the driver we will break other logical constructs | 17:52 |
| Sabari_ | @hartsocks I was talking about resource pools within the cluster. | 17:52 |
| hartsocks | @Sabari_ then I have to agree with the assessment about not bothering with a fix. However, stand-alone hosts can have resource pools. | 17:53 |
| hartsocks | Is this a valid use case: | 17:53 |
| hartsocks | An administrator takes a stand-alone host... | 17:53 |
| hartsocks | … creates a Resource Pool "OpenStack" | 17:54 |
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| hartsocks | and configures the Nova driver to only use the "OpenStack" pool | 17:54 |
| hartsocks | ? | 17:54 |
| kirankv | @hartsocks: agree that fix is required for stand-alone hosts | 17:54 |
| hartsocks | Should we allow that? | 17:54 |
| Sabari_ | Yes, that's valid too, but that cannot be done at this moment | 17:54 |
| hartsocks | @Sabari_ so that's a *slightly* different problem. Is that worth your time? | 17:55 |
| kirankv | but im not sure how ESX is mostly used - 1. stand-lone 2. using vCenter? Im thinking its #2 using vCenter | 17:55 |
| hartsocks | I think I wholly agree that we don't need to change the Cluster logic though... | 17:55 |
| Divakar | solution could be similar to allowing regex that we followed for datastore selection | 17:55 |
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| hartsocks | @kirankv good point. | 17:56 |
| hartsocks | You could have an ESXi driver change and a slightly different change in the VCDriver too | 17:57 |
| hartsocks | I'll leave that up for the implementer. | 17:57 |
| Sabari_ | we still support ESXDriver so that a nova-compute service can talk to a standalone host right. In that case, shouldn't we support resource pools. | 17:57 |
| hartsocks | @Sabari_ I think you have a valid point. | 17:58 |
| hartsocks | Anything else on this topic before I post some links needing code reviews (by core devs) | 17:58 |
| hartsocks | ? | 17:58 |
| Divakar | In the cloud semantics do we really want to sub divide a host further into resource pools? I agree we will need this in a Cluster though | 17:59 |
| Sabari_ | I think I need to look at the blueprint and the related patch on how it addresses the issue in cluster. In the meanwhile, I don;t have anything more | 17:59 |
| hartsocks | @Divakar I'm allowing for a specific use case where we have an admin "playing" with a small OpenStack install. I think we will see that more and more. | 18:00 |
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| hartsocks | We're out of time... | 18:00 |
| hartsocks | I'll post some reviews... | 18:00 |
| hartsocks | #topic in need of reviews | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "in need of reviews (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 18:00 | |
| hartsocks | •https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29396/ | 18:00 |
| hartsocks | •https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29552/ | 18:00 |
| hartsocks | •https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30036/ | 18:00 |
| hartsocks | •https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30822/ | 18:00 |
| Daviey | hartsocks: just those 4? | 18:01 |
| Sabari_ | Thanks Shawn | 18:01 |
| hartsocks | These are some patches that looked like they were ready to get some +2 | 18:01 |
| Daviey | Is there a beter way we can track inflight reviews | 18:01 |
| Daviey | ? | 18:01 |
| hartsocks | Also... | 18:01 |
| hartsocks | #link http://imgur.com/XLINkt3 | 18:01 |
| hartsocks | If you add me to your review it will end up in this list. | 18:01 |
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| hartsocks | If I look (just before the meeting) and see a "bunch" of +1 votes I'll consider it ready to get some "+2" love. | 18:02 |
| hartsocks | Talk to you next week! | 18:02 |
| hartsocks | #endmeeting | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:03 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jun 12 18:03:03 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:03 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-06-12-17.01.html | 18:03 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-06-12-17.01.txt | 18:03 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-06-12-17.01.log.html | 18:03 |
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| hartsocks | BTW: head over to #openstack-vmware for continued side discussions! | 18:03 |
| Daviey | thanks hartsocks | 18:03 |
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| notmyname | swift meeting time. who's here? | 19:01 |
| portante | peter | 19:01 |
| davidhadas | hi | 19:01 |
| creiht | kinda | 19:01 |
| gareth_kun | +1 | 19:01 |
| creiht | :) | 19:01 |
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| notmyname | #startmeeting | 19:01 |
| openstack | notmyname: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee' | 19:01 |
| torgomatic | o/ | 19:01 |
| notmyname | #startmeeting swift | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jun 12 19:01:56 2013 UTC. The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'swift' | 19:02 |
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| notmyname | welcome all. agenda (or topics) for today are on https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Swift | 19:02 |
| davidhadas | agenda is a plus for future meetings also :) | 19:02 |
| notmyname | first up, reminder about the hong kong summit | 19:02 |
| notmyname | hong kong summit | 19:02 |
| notmyname | nov 5-8: http://www.openstack.org/summit/openstack-summit-hong-kong-2013/ | 19:02 |
| notmyname | us visa: http://hongkong.usconsulate.gov/acs_hkvisa.html | 19:02 |
| notmyname | get your passport and visa ready if you haven't yet | 19:03 |
| gareth_kun | welcome | 19:03 |
| notmyname | #info get travel arrangements ready for the HK summit | 19:03 |
| creiht | "They must have a U.S. passport valid for at least six months" | 19:03 |
| creiht | interesting | 19:03 |
| notmyname | also, I believe hotel blocks open up this week (according to an email sent last week), so that stuff is coming up soon too | 19:04 |
| creiht | oh I guess that means doesn't expire within 6 months | 19:04 |
| notmyname | creiht: I think that's common to most international travel | 19:04 |
| davidhadas | creiht: standard procedure - same for pepole going to the US | 19:04 |
| chmouel | yep | 19:04 |
| shri | when is the call for papers? | 19:04 |
| creiht | notmyname: yeah my first thought was that it had to have been valid for 6 months | 19:04 |
| *** hartsocks has left #openstack-meeting | 19:04 | |
| notmyname | shri: not sure on the conference side. the summit (tech) side will be much closer to the event | 19:05 |
| notmyname | shri: normally about a month out | 19:05 |
| * creiht needs to figure out if he would like to visit anywhere else in china | 19:05 | |
| davidhadas | creiht: you need to be at least 6 month old also | 19:05 |
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| notmyname | creiht: let me answer that for you: yes | 19:05 |
| creiht | davidhadas: hehe | 19:05 |
| notmyname | ok, next release | 19:05 |
| notmyname | #topic next release | 19:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "next release (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:05 | |
| notmyname | we had a bunch of good patches merged yesterday | 19:06 |
| notmyname | torgomatic is working on a affinity on writes patch right now. that's the last major part of global clusters, and once that lands I'd like to do a release | 19:06 |
| notmyname | it's been a while, and we've had lots of other stuff land too | 19:06 |
| davidhadas | notmyname: how about trying to get account acls in before next release? | 19:06 |
| davidhadas | its in the oven... | 19:07 |
| torgomatic | for certain values of "right now", at least. Actual right now, I'm here in a meeting. ;) | 19:07 |
| notmyname | that's my next question: what else needs to land? any other outstanding patches that are in gerrit now? | 19:07 |
| davidhadas | all infrustructure is there now that we merged get_info | 19:07 |
| creiht | notmyname: should we give some time with an RC before we release so that those region features can be tested fairly well before release? | 19:07 |
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| notmyname | creiht: yes, to some extent. we're testing it as we go with a global clsuter we have | 19:08 |
| creiht | notmyname: I imagine dfg would like to get his slo of slos patch in | 19:08 |
| creiht | but he has been on vacation | 19:08 |
| notmyname | ya | 19:08 |
| creiht | he should be back soonish | 19:08 |
| notmyname | I'd like to have the final patches land next week and then do a release on June 27 | 19:08 |
| notmyname | that's 2 weeks from tomorrow | 19:08 |
| creiht | that seems reasonable | 19:09 |
| davidhadas | notmyname: a bit pressed fro acount acls - I assume it would take 2 weeks to score | 19:09 |
| davidhadas | So few more days would be great | 19:09 |
| davidhadas | If we get it great - if not, next time | 19:09 |
| notmyname | davidhadas: when do you expect to submit it? | 19:10 |
| creiht | davidhadas: I imagine there will be room for more releases before Havana | 19:10 |
| notmyname | yes, there will be | 19:10 |
| davidhadas | I will try to send first version before weekend - working now on tests and need to close one or two items | 19:10 |
| notmyname | ok, great | 19:11 |
| * portante working towards getting series of patches for DiskFile refactoring into the release following June 27th | 19:11 | |
| davidhadas | Lets target adding it in | 19:11 |
| notmyname | the next release will be 1.9 | 19:11 |
| notmyname | I don't think 1.8.1 is appropriate, but I'm willing to hear arguments | 19:12 |
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| portante | agreed | 19:12 |
| davidhadas | sounds sexy to me | 19:12 |
| notmyname | davidhadas: that's what we're going for ;-) | 19:12 |
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| creiht | notmyname: no 2.0? :) | 19:12 |
| notmyname | not yet :-) | 19:13 |
| davidhadas | creiht: lets do the 2.* inline with an openstack release | 19:13 |
| creiht | global clusters seems like a big enough feature to bump to 2.0 | 19:13 |
| creiht | not sure if there will be a feature more important than that in a while | 19:13 |
| davidhadas | but I have no idea if after 1.9 its 2.0 or 1.a or 1.10 | 19:13 |
| creiht | unless we are going to do like 1.10 1.11 etc | 19:13 |
| notmyname | I'm fine with 1.10, 1.11, etc | 19:14 |
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| torgomatic | that's the nice thing about integers: there are so many of them | 19:14 |
| creiht | notmyname: what would constitute 2.0? | 19:14 |
| portante | perhaps save 2.0 bump to API changes? | 19:14 |
| notmyname | creiht: not sure yet, but I'd tend to agree with portante | 19:14 |
| creiht | meh | 19:14 |
| creiht | :) | 19:14 |
| notmyname | breaking changes | 19:14 |
| portante | yes | 19:14 |
| creiht | well nothing would break because you would still have backwards compat :) | 19:14 |
| notmyname | we've got some other stuff planned that may constitute a more major version bump :-) | 19:15 |
| portante | do tell? | 19:15 |
| notmyname | not yet :-) | 19:15 |
| creiht | notmyname: meh | 19:15 |
| portante | ;0 | 19:15 |
| creiht | :) | 19:15 |
| notmyname | let's move on though, to other topics for today | 19:15 |
| creiht | notmyname: if it is that super awesome, then it can be 3.0 :) | 19:15 |
| notmyname | #info next release targeted as 1.9 for June 27 | 19:15 |
| davidhadas | Am I still connected - last message I see is from 22:12 | 19:16 |
| notmyname | creiht: it's teh awesomz!!11!!! | 19:16 |
| notmyname | davidhadas: looks like lag | 19:16 |
| notmyname | #topic API specs | 19:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API specs (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:16 | |
| notmyname | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Swift/API | 19:16 |
| torgomatic | davidhadas: I see your message, though if you're not seeing mine, I don't know how much good this reply will do | 19:16 |
| notmyname | I've added some stuff to the API wiki page | 19:16 |
| notmyname | mostly comments based on when things were implemented | 19:17 |
| notmyname | I'd love more feedback on the wiki page | 19:18 |
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| portante | did we arrive at a decision for how to gauge what is in or out? | 19:18 |
| davidhadas_ | I got disconnected | 19:18 |
| portante | from the last meeting, I thought notmyname was considering options | 19:18 |
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| davidhadas_ | What is the current topic? | 19:18 |
| portante | API specs | 19:19 |
| notmyname | portante: ya, but I didn't hear from anyone :-) | 19:19 |
| notmyname | I'm becoming convinced that we realy just need a decision to be made | 19:19 |
| notmyname | like "everything in folsom or essex is v1.0" | 19:19 |
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| torgomatic | if only we had some kind of leader to make that decision ;) | 19:19 |
| portante | ;0 | 19:19 |
| notmyname | hmm ;-) | 19:19 |
| creiht | that could make a good decision? | 19:19 |
| creiht | ;) | 19:19 |
| * portante ow! | 19:19 | |
| notmyname | I'll put together a more formal proposal around that and send it to the mailing list | 19:20 |
| notmyname | creiht: ouch! | 19:20 |
| creiht | I kid I kid :) | 19:20 |
| davidhadas_ | lets call clay and vote | 19:20 |
| clayg | api v1.0 is so 3 years ago | 19:20 |
| notmyname | #action notmyname to make a formal proposal to the mailing list with decisions made as to what's in and out | 19:21 |
| notmyname | ok, next topic | 19:21 |
| notmyname | #topic internal API changes | 19:21 |
| notmyname | How backwards compatible do we need to be with internal (i.e. non-user-facing) interfaces? This question was inspired by https://review.openstack.org/22820, which changes the format of a data structure in the WSGI environment that other middlewares may use, though none in the Swift codebase do. | 19:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "internal API changes (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:21 | |
| notmyname | who proposed that item? ^ | 19:21 |
| torgomatic | o/ | 19:21 |
| gareth_kun | that's my issue | 19:21 |
| torgomatic | I'm just trying to get a sense of what people feel is important to have compatibility on | 19:22 |
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| torgomatic | obviously, the client API must not change | 19:22 |
| torgomatic | and obviously, if I rename a method in swift.common.utils or something, that's okay | 19:22 |
| portante | but isn't that talking about on disk data? | 19:22 |
| davidhadas_ | torgomatic: its just the same since someone may use it | 19:23 |
| portante | acls stored in metadata on disk | 19:23 |
| * clayg snikers at "obviously" when coming from the 204->200 point the clients at the spec guy | 19:23 | |
| notmyname | we can't not change anything because somebody somewhere may change it | 19:23 |
| creiht | lol | 19:23 |
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| davidhadas_ | we simply cant have such restrictions assuming we want to grow and prosper | 19:23 |
| gareth_kun | torgomatic: is that a good way to change something and have release notes for next release? | 19:23 |
| torgomatic | portante: the on-disk ACLs aren't the contentious part there; it was the changes to the WSGI environment | 19:23 |
| torgomatic | so, just curious what people usually care about | 19:23 |
| torgomatic | portante: the on-disk ACLs are backwards-compatible in that change | 19:24 |
| creiht | in the past, we have chosen to keep things for backwards compatibility with a deprecation warning | 19:24 |
| creiht | and then take it out in a future version | 19:24 |
| clayg | gah, that review is huge - do I need to understand that issue to under the current topic? | 19:24 |
| davidhadas_ | any version should support growing from previous one(s) with whatever is on disk | 19:24 |
| davidhadas_ | But I am not sure if one or ones and how many ones | 19:24 |
| creiht | we've always had upgrade in place as well | 19:25 |
| creiht | if it is a data format issue | 19:25 |
| torgomatic | clayg: the issue is: an earlier version of that patch changed the value of env['keystone.identity'] that the middleware was emitting (leaking?) | 19:25 |
| notmyname | upgrade plans are important (eg ring formats, pickle->json) | 19:25 |
| * portante wonders if there is a good summary somewhere about that discussion | 19:25 | |
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| clayg | torgomatic: yeah but so that's the same thing as changing a method name in utils right? | 19:26 |
| creiht | One does not simply run an upgrade script on a swift cluster :) | 19:26 |
| torgomatic | clayg: seemed that way to me, but chmouel disagreed | 19:26 |
| torgomatic | hence this discussion :) | 19:26 |
| portante | clayg: not so sure, because a filter can be written and used outside of the make swift code base | 19:26 |
| clayg | chmouel: wtf? | 19:26 |
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| creiht | if there are data changes that are cluster wides, the updates *must* happen in place | 19:26 |
| notmyname | heh | 19:26 |
| portante | that is why we are working on the DiskFile refactoring | 19:26 |
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| torgomatic | creiht: definitely | 19:27 |
| clayg | portante: yeah middleware that's not in core is tough to keep up with master | 19:27 |
| creiht | I think we should still keep backwords compatible functions that are depricated for a release or two so that outside utilities can catch up | 19:27 |
| clayg | portante: but I mean this is way not as bad as something like swob, or the fact that our memcche client gripes about a deprecated kwarg "timeout" | 19:28 |
| davidhadas_ | We should have defined APIs - e.g. the auth API is a good example which we agree to not change (only extend - unless we do a major release for example 2.0) | 19:28 |
| chmouel | clayg: heu i'm talking about the middleware | 19:28 |
| notmyname | portante: but isn't the difference witht he DiskFile stuff that it is introducing a new API that is relatively stable (ie we agree to to change it). no such agreement is there with env vars | 19:28 |
| chmouel | the api that middleware is based on | 19:28 |
| chmouel | and get into the chain | 19:28 |
| chmouel | not swift.common.utils and such | 19:28 |
| creiht | notmyname: I think that there is still an implicit agreement to try to play well together | 19:29 |
| notmyname | of course | 19:29 |
| portante | notmyname: yes, but, as an example, gluster today has to track the code changes made to make sure we are not broken by any code change assumptions | 19:29 |
| davidhadas_ | But ethe rest... there is no difference between what's in mmcache, whats in environment and whats in the runtime as for function names, parameters etc | 19:29 |
| portante | the external-middleware models will have to do the same, and to verify one did not miss anything is a real pain | 19:29 |
| * portante shouts up from the whole we dug | 19:30 | |
| davidhadas_ | portante: so the DiskFile should fix that hopefully as we are making it an official API that will not change unless we declare ands warn of that change etc. | 19:30 |
| portante | agreed | 19:30 |
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| portante | so we have to be careful to define clearly what external filters can expect for their API | 19:30 |
| clayg | heh, well it's not even going to be "official official" - it just reduces the surface area a bit | 19:31 |
| * portante look another API definition popping up there too | 19:31 | |
| davidhadas_ | So as far as I can see there are only two levels - either an official API - in which case we proactivly make sure we can change before we change or at least pre-warn, and all the rest where we continue as usual and try to be fair | 19:31 |
| clayg | like if you "reach around" the abstraction you're prolly gunna get bent | 19:31 |
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| davidhadas_ | but not prevent progress | 19:31 |
| portante | clayg: true | 19:31 |
| notmyname | so the issue on this one is the keystone.identity env var. seems that the var is already "scoped" by name to be keystone. I can't imagine that eg swiftstack auth should require keystone's data structure to not change | 19:32 |
| creiht | yeah the internal api thing scares me a bit | 19:32 |
| creiht | I don't want to hamper innovation inside of swift | 19:32 |
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| clayg | davidhadas_: well having a good abstraction that's more or less stable *accelerates* progress, and not just disk file, if we renamed "get_logger" or "readconf" we'd break a bunch of stuff | 19:32 |
| creiht | for example, what if we decide to rewrite the object server in C to get better io? | 19:33 |
| creiht | that api abstraction totally goes away | 19:33 |
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| portante | I would have to review the discussions, more but can somebody tell report on what existing middleware might get burned by the keystone.* wsgi change? | 19:33 |
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| creiht | It would seem more important to define the REST api between the services first | 19:33 |
| clayg | creiht: yeah but we already have a loose internal api that allows that | 19:33 |
| davidhadas_ | clayg: agreed. But whatever we decide to fixate - we need to think about it before we fixate it and than say it out load | 19:33 |
| notmyname | creiht: not it's "external" one. ya, that | 19:33 |
| clayg | heh yeah | 19:33 |
| creiht | like define what the object server REST api is | 19:33 |
| torgomatic | I dunno, I like the Linux kernel model: syscalls Shall Not Change(tm), and if an internal API gets changed, all callers get updated by the changer | 19:34 |
| notmyname | creiht: isn't that what' portante is doing with LFS? :-) | 19:34 |
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| torgomatic | if you're maintaining a driver outside of the kernel, it's up to you to keep up with internal API changes | 19:34 |
| notmyname | torgomatic: but that's only for stuff in the kernel right? | 19:34 |
| * portante hopes he is doing that | 19:34 | |
| creiht | notmyname: I'm not entirely sure... I was under the impression that it was an internal api from a code perspective | 19:34 |
| creiht | but then again I'm only going by what I hear you guys talk about | 19:34 |
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| portante | creiht: it will end being external once we get more than one backend implemented that is available to the community | 19:35 |
| portante | end up | 19:35 |
| creiht | portante: ok, I guess I need to look at it closer then | 19:35 |
| davidhadas_ | Lets create a wiki page where we define what we preceive as an external API that extensions can rely to not change without prewarning | 19:36 |
| clayg | I think we're pretty loose on "defined" api's (previous topic was, yeah we should have one for the *public client api*) - i'm not sure what we're going to decide here | 19:36 |
| portante | creiht: thanks, that would be great | 19:36 |
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| notmyname | perhaps "internal" vs "external" is confusing? an API s external, but it doesn't mean it's available to an end user | 19:36 |
| clayg | ... except maybe - yes continue to try and not break stuff other poeople are probably using | 19:36 |
| notmyname | it's all perspective | 19:36 |
| torgomatic | basically, I want to know what sorts of non-client-breaking changes are likely to piss off other Swift devs if they get approved | 19:36 |
| portante | notmyname: true | 19:36 |
| creiht | portante: of course my list of things to look at is ever increasing :/ | 19:37 |
| davidhadas_ | torgomatic: so lets document that | 19:37 |
| clayg | torgomatic: easy, the one that's make some other swift dev have to change their code | 19:37 |
| notmyname | torgomatic: so how do we answer that? | 19:37 |
| torgomatic | notmyname: well, I was hoping to do that with a quick straw poll here, just to get a feel for things | 19:37 |
| portante | torgomatic: go for it | 19:38 |
| torgomatic | sure | 19:38 |
| portante | torgomatic: can you frame it succinctly? | 19:39 |
| portante | the straw poll that is? | 19:39 |
| torgomatic | so, who here gets annoyed when things change in the WSGI environment? how about utility functions? other stuff? | 19:39 |
| creiht | straw man poll? | 19:39 |
| clayg | torgomatic: but it's impossible even your lowest bar "and obviously, if I rename a method in swift.common.utils or something, that's okay" is *NOT* ok - you can't change the name of get_logger | 19:39 |
| creiht | lol | 19:39 |
| clayg | is there *anything* else you can think of that we could *ALL* agree is totally safe to change? | 19:40 |
| notmyname | does all this come down to "don't break things we know people are using and have good release ntoes"? | 19:40 |
| chmouel | notmyname: +1 | 19:40 |
| creiht | I think it is a lot like how we have handled api things | 19:40 |
| creiht | additive is fine | 19:40 |
| torgomatic | notmyname: sure, could be | 19:40 |
| notmyname | and it may be that we don't know what people are using until a review | 19:40 |
| creiht | if you are going to radically change something, then we need some extra care | 19:40 |
| litong | @notmyname, a product in my view should only insist on the confirmation of the external API | 19:41 |
| litong | anything developed based on internal methods are at risk anyway. | 19:41 |
| notmyname | creiht: agreed, but realizing that we can be a litle more free with non-client things | 19:41 |
| portante | but is middleware internal methods? | 19:41 |
| clayg | I think chmouel has to defined why he thinks the wsgi environ is scared or a similar +2 is likely to come up | 19:41 |
| litong | there is no one there to ensure it will be always there like that. | 19:41 |
| clayg | it's not obvious to me why that would be consumed by anyone except the guy setting it | 19:41 |
| chmouel | clayg: I'd say whatever other middleware which is non core would use | 19:41 |
| notmyname | portante: IMO, yes. middleware is an implementation detail not a definition of "optional" | 19:41 |
| litong | we should not define that many APIs, it will be a big problem down the road for a product. | 19:41 |
| creiht | notmyname: sure, I just expect a "best effort" at making sure we don't make changes that are likely to break things | 19:42 |
| notmyname | I agree | 19:42 |
| torgomatic | alright | 19:42 |
| notmyname | torgomatic: what else would you like to see? | 19:42 |
| creiht | and that goes for those that review the changes as well | 19:42 |
| chmouel | creiht: good for me | 19:42 |
| notmyname | ok | 19:42 |
| torgomatic | notmyname: I'm done | 19:42 |
| portante | but we allow other folks to write middleware and use with core, right? | 19:42 |
| * davidhadas_ volnteers to try and create a list | 19:42 | |
| * portante willing to be done | 19:42 | |
| davidhadas_ | with typos! | 19:42 |
| notmyname | #agreed don't make changes that are likely to break things | 19:42 |
| notmyname | :-) | 19:42 |
| clayg | portante: I've done that with many a middleware sure | 19:42 |
| creiht | lol | 19:43 |
| notmyname | #topic DiskFile status | 19:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "DiskFile status (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:43 | |
| notmyname | portante: can you give a 3 minute summart? | 19:43 |
| creiht | I think we have been fairly reasonable so far... there have been a couple of misses, but I think we have learned from them | 19:43 |
| davidhadas_ | notmyname: you skipped some items | 19:43 |
| notmyname | sumary? | 19:43 |
| portante | yes | 19:43 |
| davidhadas_ | in the agenda | 19:43 |
| notmyname | davidhadas_: I'm not going in order | 19:43 |
| portante | working through test case failures | 19:43 |
| clayg | chmouel: so this was a *real* breaking change between the keystone-client middleware and the keystone-auth middleware in swift? | 19:44 |
| notmyname | davidhadas_: (I want enough time to discuss yours, so a quick DiskFile overview should work) | 19:44 |
| portante | stumbled on quarantine semantics of when an object gets quarantined | 19:44 |
| clayg | chmouel: like ours was getting changed to look for a variable somewhere that the upstream middleware wasn't putting it? | 19:44 |
| portante | based on refactoring of the APIs | 19:44 |
| portante | working to propose that topic separately | 19:44 |
| chmouel | clayg: which one are you talking about the review about the ACL ? | 19:44 |
| portante | working on refactoring the reader code like the writer | 19:44 |
| notmyname | chmouel: clayg: cna you discuss in #openstack-swift? | 19:44 |
| notmyname | portante: is that your next patch? | 19:45 |
| gareth_kun | clayg: breaking users who use env['keystone.identity'] defined in swifft, not keystone headers | 19:45 |
| portante | next patch will likely be the quarantine refactoring | 19:45 |
| portante | then reader done like writer | 19:45 |
| portante | then API definition (this is private, this is public, this is reference implmemetation kinda stuff) | 19:46 |
| notmyname | ok | 19:46 |
| portante | would love input on quarantine issue from someone willing to listen on the problem | 19:46 |
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| portante | that is the status for DiskFile | 19:46 |
| notmyname | portante: ok thanks | 19:46 |
| notmyname | let's discuss quarantine issues in IRC or in a review | 19:47 |
| notmyname | IRC=#openstack-swift | 19:47 |
| portante | great | 19:47 |
| notmyname | #topic path control | 19:47 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "path control (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:47 | |
| notmyname | Path Control: Create an open interface to control the path used by Swift within devices (where within the device a/c/o/tmp/qurentined/async are placed). | 19:47 |
| notmyname | Make sure any code approaching the device go via a central function (e.g. storage_directory() in utils) allowing monkey patching it or offering other ways to extend it | 19:47 |
| notmyname | While we do it , we can extend storage_directory() to also append the basedir and device since this seem to be required by all its users. | 19:47 |
| notmyname | I'm not sure really what this is? davidhadas_? | 19:47 |
| davidhadas | I wanted to hear your views on this one | 19:48 |
| portante | this feels like it will end up being related to the "backend" in use one we get the DiskFile refactoring, and DatabaseBroker refactoring, in place | 19:48 |
| notmyname | have a single function in utils that determines where stuff lives on disk? seems reasonable. maybe even something good to have in DiskFile itself | 19:48 |
| davidhadas | first , si getting all swift code handling the path to go via a central place - we can use this for ring doubling where we want to control the path | 19:48 |
| portante | notmyname: agreed | 19:49 |
| notmyname | davidhadas_: what's your concern? | 19:49 |
| davidhadas | second I want te the path control function to be made external API such that installations can decide to change it at will | 19:49 |
| portante | Essentially, when one looks at the three servers, there is an "understood" way of dealing with things on disk unites DatabaseBroker classes and DiskFile | 19:49 |
| davidhadas | If this is ok with everyone I have no concerns | 19:50 |
| creiht | davidhadas: can you share a use case to help us understand it better? | 19:50 |
| portante | *that unites | 19:50 |
| notmyname | davidhadas: it sounds like something reasonable to be in DiskFile (eg portante doesn't want to name things the same way on disk in gluster) | 19:50 |
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| portante | notmyname: or even for XFS today, where we would want to use a different path for tempfiles that take advantage of XFS allocation groups behaviors | 19:51 |
| davidhadas | 1. Disk doubling. 2. I can do SAIO with multiple swift regionss on one with this 3. We may decide to use a special path for containers and trat it with more cache based on that path | 19:51 |
| notmyname | creiht: I've got a hypothetical use case of having different storage policies using different top-level directories (objects/ and objects-reduced-redundancy/ and etc) | 19:52 |
| portante | davidhadas: can't that be done today with device paths and mount_check = False? | 19:52 |
| davidhadas | 3 is kind of hardware and system specific - but different pepole may have their own | 19:52 |
| portante | This feels very much tied to backends for DiskFile | 19:52 |
| davidhadas | portante: No - this allows chnaging the path on the fly as well | 19:52 |
| portante | but when wearing bear glasses ... | 19:53 |
| creiht | I guess I was more cuious why you would change it on the fly? | 19:53 |
| * portante echos creiht | 19:53 | |
| davidhadas | portante: it is related to backends - I think it is a different issue from DiskFile - BUt I also think it it can be combined to a threesome with DiskFIle and DB | 19:53 |
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| davidhadas | creiht: it asallows for exampel to create two swift domains in one - as you know we are into domains | 19:54 |
| davidhadas | :) | 19:54 |
| portante | a backend implementation might allow for this, but not sure changing specifically to get flexibility for the current implementation is the right way to go | 19:54 |
| davidhadas | Different domains for example may have different QoS | 19:54 |
| creiht | I guess it is difficult for me to visualize this without seeing some code | 19:55 |
| portante | that most likely can be done with device paths, no? | 19:55 |
| notmyname | davidhadas: I'd like to see the way things are stored more abstracted. eg what if my storage doesn't use directories? in that way, this proposal seems to be most appropriate under something like DiskFile rather than a sibline to it | 19:55 |
| notmyname | sibling | 19:55 |
| torgomatic | creiht: I am in the same boat with you | 19:55 |
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| davidhadas | notmyname: I cant see that, but I am ok with having this combined as long as I am not forced to implement a DiskFile simply to control the path | 19:56 |
| notmyname | davidhadas: a DiskFile that allows you to control the path? ;-) | 19:56 |
| portante | davidhadas: one should be able to subclass an implementation | 19:56 |
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| davidhadas | portante: sure np | 19:56 |
| portante | gluster is doing that for the current implementation | 19:57 |
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| portante | we just tweak a few things and reuse the reader | 19:57 |
| notmyname | davidhadas: does all that sound ok to you? questions answered? | 19:57 |
| davidhadas | yes | 19:57 |
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| notmyname | great | 19:57 |
| notmyname | thanks for bringing it up | 19:57 |
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| notmyname | reminder: next meeting is in 2 weeks, get your passport ready if you are going to HK, release tentatively on June 27 | 19:58 |
| notmyname | thanks for your time | 19:58 |
| notmyname | have a great day | 19:58 |
| notmyname | #endmeetign | 19:58 |
| notmyname | #endmeeting | 19:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jun 12 19:58:38 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2013/swift.2013-06-12-19.01.html | 19:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2013/swift.2013-06-12-19.01.txt | 19:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2013/swift.2013-06-12-19.01.log.html | 19:58 |
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| shardy | #startmeeting heat | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jun 12 20:00:30 2013 UTC. The chair is shardy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 20:00 |
| shardy | #topic rollcall | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| zaneb | o/ | 20:00 |
| tspatzier | Hi all | 20:00 |
| radix | hello | 20:00 |
| stevebaker | \o/ | 20:01 |
| bgorski | o/ | 20:01 |
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| TravT | o/ | 20:01 |
| shardy | asalkeld, sdake, jpeeler, therve around? | 20:01 |
| asalkeld | hi | 20:01 |
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| jpeeler | hey | 20:02 |
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| andrew_plunk | hello | 20:02 |
| shardy | Ok, hi all, lets get started | 20:02 |
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| shardy | #topic Review last week's actions | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review last week's actions (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:02 | |
| kebray | I'm here. | 20:02 |
| sdake | o/ | 20:03 |
| shardy | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-06-05-20.00.html | 20:03 |
| shardy | Only one action | 20:03 |
| SpamapS | o/ | 20:03 |
| shardy | #info asalkeld/zaneb to start ML discussion re stack metadata | 20:03 |
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| zaneb | hey, that actually happened :) | 20:03 |
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| sdake | grats zaneb ;) | 20:03 |
| zaneb | thanks asalkeld | 20:03 |
| shardy | Cool, thanks guys | 20:03 |
| asalkeld | yip, that was good | 20:03 |
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| shardy | #topic h2 blueprint status | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "h2 blueprint status (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:04 | |
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| shardy | So just wanted to make sure everyone is happy with what they're doing for h2, what they have assigned etc | 20:05 |
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| sdake | shardy I was thinking of making a new blueprint and tackling in h2 as well - injection of data so we can use gold images | 20:05 |
| randallburt | no complaints except the tempest gating is blocked on a nova bug :( | 20:05 |
| sdake | i'll write a blueprint when i get done with my 3rd fulltime job at rht :) | 20:05 |
| shardy | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/havana-2 | 20:06 |
| SpamapS | sdake: huh? | 20:06 |
| SpamapS | sdake: we can use gold images now | 20:06 |
| shardy | randallburt: Yeah the gate failures are a bit frustrating | 20:06 |
| sdake | SpamapS i'll msg you when I write blueprint it will make more sense | 20:06 |
| SpamapS | sdake: mmk | 20:06 |
| sdake | problem we found with RHEL images that can't be easily resolved | 20:07 |
| shardy | Ok, cool, well if anyone else has anything they expect to do for h2, please make sure it's captured in the plan by raising or targetting the bp/bug | 20:07 |
| sdake | SUSE may have same problem | 20:07 |
| shardy | sdake: what problem is that? | 20:07 |
| sdake | wait for blueprint i'll explain there | 20:07 |
| shardy | Ok, cool | 20:07 |
| shardy | #action sdake to raise BP re gold images | 20:08 |
| shardy | randallburt are you and andrew_plunk happy with the providers tasks you have allocated? | 20:08 |
| randallburt | shardy: yes | 20:09 |
| shardy | ok, cool | 20:09 |
| randallburt | I'm about to start on the next bits | 20:09 |
| shardy | anyone have anything else related to h2 BP's or bugs they want to raise? | 20:09 |
| randallburt | that being said, was leaving the json params for now since there was some controversy, but its not a blocker imo | 20:09 |
| randallburt | I feel confident we'll get someting work-able by h2 | 20:10 |
| shardy | randallburt: OK, as long as we have clear direction and progress on the main bits then all good :) | 20:10 |
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| shardy | looks like it could be a short meeting today, anyone have any other topics before open discussion? | 20:11 |
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| sdake | heat-templates likely needs a launchpad home | 20:11 |
| shardy | sdake: it already does | 20:11 |
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| sdake | cool then nm :) | 20:11 |
| shardy | https://launchpad.net/heat-templates | 20:11 |
| sdake | https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1186791 is actually a heat-templates bug | 20:11 |
| shardy | ;) | 20:11 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1186791 in heat "NoKey template uses -gold images which no longer exist" [Medium,Confirmed] | 20:11 |
| sdake | and fixed IIRC | 20:12 |
| stevebaker | nifty | 20:12 |
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| shardy | #topic Open Discussion | 20:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:12 | |
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| wirehead_ | So, there's http://developer.rackspace.com/blog/rackspace-autoscale-is-now-open-source.html | 20:12 |
| shardy | #link http://developer.rackspace.com/blog/rackspace-autoscale-is-now-open-source.html | 20:13 |
| asalkeld | I have a small one | 20:13 |
| asalkeld | hacking rules | 20:13 |
| shardy | wirehead_: do you see this as contributing to or competing with the Heat AS efforts? | 20:13 |
| asalkeld | holding off until wirehead_ done ... | 20:14 |
| wirehead_ | shardy: contribute. Obviously, you can't just copy-paste our code into yours, given that it's built around Twisted and Cassandra. | 20:14 |
| wirehead_ | where I recognize that 'our' and 'yours' are really 'our' and 'ours' | 20:15 |
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| wirehead_ | But I would view it as a failure if we're maintaining long-term Otter and Heat AS. | 20:15 |
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| shardy | wirehead_: Ok, I've not looked into the details but wanted to clarify if you're still onboard with the plan of incrementally adding features/api etc to heat, with a view to separating the AS functionality potentially later | 20:15 |
| shardy | rather than proposing a new project from the outset | 20:16 |
| zaneb | shardy: as I understand it, this was a response to our request to open the source :) | 20:16 |
| shardy | the former approach is what we discussed at summit, but things have been very quiet since ;) | 20:16 |
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| SpamapS | Sounds to me like the team had a deadline, hit it, and then open sourced what they produced. | 20:16 |
| sdake | wirehead_ a good first go would be to incorporate the api you have developed into heat proper | 20:17 |
| zaneb | shardy: so that we can see the direction things are heading before the code arrives | 20:17 |
| shardy | zaneb: aha, I misinterpreted it as more of a project unveiling, my bad :) | 20:17 |
| SpamapS | But now the plan is to contribute what you've learned to Heat AS ? | 20:17 |
| wirehead_ | The plan is that Heat will take up our AS API and learnings. And overall, Heat will be able to scale to Rackspace-hosted scale. | 20:17 |
| SpamapS | As in, "we tried X, it does not work. Do Y instead." | 20:17 |
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| zaneb | shardy: yah, I think Adrian said that accidentally creating that impression was one of the reasons they were reluctant to release the code in the first place | 20:18 |
| SpamapS | wirehead_: ah that too. One API to rule them all. :) | 20:18 |
| wirehead_ | I'm a little slow with the typing, yes | 20:18 |
| wirehead_ | And if the Heat API changes, I'd like to see the Otter API change at the same time. | 20:18 |
| wirehead_ | But that's something that we've had chats with radix and theve about | 20:19 |
| wirehead_ | (they are both otherwise occupied) | 20:19 |
| sdake | otter graphic shell game Heat cloudwatch -> Ceilometer Otter AS -> Heat ;) | 20:19 |
| shardy | wirehead_: Ok, cool, well lets all take a look and we can continue discussions, but if you have specific stuff you want to happen for havana, e.g API, it would be good to start getting some details defined so we know what we're aiming for | 20:19 |
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| wirehead_ | But, as you presume, RAX wrote that to meet a short-term important deadline. | 20:19 |
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| shardy | Ok, well thanks for the head-up, lets all take a look and continue discussion on the ML over the next few days | 20:21 |
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| wirehead_ | Sure thing. | 20:21 |
| shardy | asalkeld: you had something to raise? | 20:21 |
| asalkeld | re: hacking rules | 20:21 |
| asalkeld | are we required to implement all of them? | 20:22 |
| asalkeld | as an openstack prooj | 20:22 |
| shardy | I thought most projects skipped some, but I'm not sure | 20:22 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: I think every project has its own list of ones they ignore, don't they? | 20:22 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, but is that cos the just haven't got there? | 20:23 |
| asalkeld | or they never want to go there? | 20:23 |
| zaneb | I don't know | 20:23 |
| SpamapS | It is worth implementing them all eventually. | 20:23 |
| stevebaker | some project object to some rules | 20:23 |
| lifeless | asalkeld: you're not. | 20:23 |
| SpamapS | But not with any kind of priority. | 20:23 |
| asalkeld | maybe a ml discussion | 20:23 |
| lifeless | most of them are sane. Some are batshit. | 20:23 |
| sdake | nova implements all hacking rules | 20:23 |
| lifeless | [I disagree with Spamaps on 'all eventually'] | 20:23 |
| asalkeld | no is doesn' | 20:24 |
| shardy | IMO features are more important than cosmetic refactoring atm | 20:24 |
| asalkeld | I have added the comments in tox.ini | 20:24 |
| SpamapS | shardy: the more features that are completed with the rules already in place, the less refactoring churn there is later. | 20:24 |
| asalkeld | maybe we need (we do not intend doing X because) | 20:24 |
| SpamapS | so perhaps I can revise all to "all that you don't think are batshit" | 20:24 |
| wirehead_ | I'd suggest "challenge all that you do think are batshit" but I'm a realist and know what roads that leads down. :P | 20:25 |
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| shardy | SpamapS: that is true, but we already have a huge pile of stuff to do, and most of it's going pretty slowly | 20:25 |
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| asalkeld | so I simply want to: 1 determine that we can long term ignore some rules, 2 if so make it clear in tox.ini | 20:26 |
| SpamapS | shardy: agreed. Its not a priority, but if it makes the code more readable, it is worth doing _eventually_. And it costs more the longer you wait. | 20:26 |
| shardy | so if there's quick cosmetic stuff, fine, but IMHO not worth spending days/weeks on | 20:26 |
| stevebaker | shardy: +1 | 20:26 |
| SpamapS | I doubt any of the rules would take days. | 20:26 |
| zaneb | +1 I support anything that makes the code better | 20:27 |
| asalkeld | so I felt a bit off color and did some (not much brain power required) | 20:27 |
| zaneb | not the batshit stuff :) | 20:27 |
| stevebaker | so I've started looking at native replacements for heat-cfntools, specifically to meet tripleo's current needs (which afaict is a replacement cfn-hup and cfn-signal) | 20:28 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: right. | 20:28 |
| sdake | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTLguide#Answers | 20:29 |
| sdake | that link suggests we should send people to ask.openstack.org for q&a support | 20:29 |
| sdake | I presume to provide a record | 20:29 |
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| shardy | stevebaker: can we plug in a backend (instead of boto) which talks to the ReST API, and figure out the waitcondition API interface? | 20:30 |
| stevebaker | aws waitconditions URLs are actually S3 buckets, but I'm assuming that installing swift in a tripleo undercloud is a non-starter | 20:30 |
| asalkeld | object store (the simple one) | 20:31 |
| asalkeld | ? | 20:31 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: I'm guess the fancy pre-signed expiring URLs we want are only in Swift | 20:32 |
| stevebaker | shardy: so evolve heat-cfntools to optionally use native APIs? I had assumed that was a non-starter if we were switching to the aws tools port | 20:32 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: swift would be ok. I don't see why that is necessary when we have a REST API though. | 20:32 |
| lifeless | stevebaker: we can do swift in the undercloud, but the very start of the undercloud is a single machine. | 20:32 |
| shardy | stevebaker: heat-cfntools could be ported to the native API | 20:32 |
| lifeless | stevebaker: so it would be a little odd :) | 20:33 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: because we have to effectively reimplement it (incl security stuff) if we want to use our own ReST API | 20:33 |
| shardy | stevebaker: then some potential future aws tools port could talk to the cfn api I guess | 20:33 |
| lifeless | zaneb: we can't factor it out into oslo? | 20:33 |
| zaneb | lifeless: swift? ;) | 20:34 |
| shardy | IMO there'd be more justification for maintaing heat-cfntools long term if it talks to the native API | 20:34 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: it comes down to how to do auth. A signed url would require no keystone auth. I'm actually OK with doing keystone calls from instances | 20:34 |
| SpamapS | Why can't we give the tools a trust and a URL to use that trust in? | 20:35 |
| asalkeld | but is everyone eles | 20:35 |
| shardy | stevebaker: I hesitate to say this, but could we just insert the ec2token paste filter in the chain for the native API? | 20:35 |
| lifeless | zaneb: from swift into oslo | 20:35 |
| shardy | then we have presigned URLS etc which will work exactly the same as they do now | 20:35 |
| shardy | even if it's an interim solution | 20:35 |
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| zaneb | can I just point out that the wait conditions don't use cfn-tools, only curl? | 20:35 |
| shardy | zaneb: the problem is they depend on the CFN api, and ec2token authentication | 20:36 |
| stevebaker | shardy: how about a dedicated pipeline just for native waitconditions | 20:36 |
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| SpamapS | zaneb: and we're also talking about metadata access. | 20:37 |
| shardy | stevebaker: wfm, no point in reinventing this if we can reuse the existing mechanism, but there may be resistance due to the awsishness | 20:37 |
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| shardy | I'm assuming keystone doesn't provide any native signing functionality? | 20:37 |
| shardy | signing/verification | 20:37 |
| SpamapS | trusts? | 20:38 |
| shardy | SpamapS: AFAICT trusts don't solve this problem yet, as you can't limit the scope to a specific endpoint, or action | 20:38 |
| stevebaker | another option is to replicate a swift temp url in our API, then swift would be optional | 20:38 |
| randallburt | do I have to have the ec2 extensions on for the existing ec2token stuff to work or is that simply an heat internal thing? | 20:38 |
| shardy | they can be set to expire tho, so they may solve part of the problem | 20:38 |
| SpamapS | shardy: so trust is just about full identity? | 20:39 |
| shardy | SpamapS: more work to do basically | 20:39 |
| SpamapS | shardy: not limited policy? | 20:39 |
| zaneb | my preference would be 1) use swift, 2) copy swift like stevebaker just said | 20:39 |
| shardy | SpamapS: you can drop roles, but you can't specify action/endpoint level granularity (yet) | 20:39 |
| SpamapS | mmk | 20:40 |
| asalkeld | and SpamapS are you ok with only readable metadata? | 20:40 |
| SpamapS | well lets not design it now, but suffice to say, the boto/keystone/heat relationship is something I'd like to see go away sooner rather than later. | 20:40 |
| radix | boo. sorry I missed the conversation about otter earlier, I had another meeting | 20:40 |
| SpamapS | asalkeld: I require only readable metadata :) | 20:40 |
| asalkeld | cool | 20:41 |
| SpamapS | asalkeld: writable would make things tricky | 20:41 |
| zaneb | I don't think writable metadata is safe in general | 20:41 |
| shardy | SpamapS: I need to add keystoneclient support before I can fully investigate it, but for our purposes, it's only halfway to where we need it so far | 20:41 |
| shardy | trusts that is | 20:41 |
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| stevebaker | shardy: maybe just focus on our other trusts use cases | 20:42 |
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| shardy | stevebaker: that's my plan, and create a wishlist of remaining functionality when I more fully understand what's there now | 20:42 |
| shardy | planning to get into it as soon as I get the suspend-resume patches merged | 20:43 |
| * SpamapS has to run | 20:43 | |
| stevebaker | So in summary, reading metadata and signalling wait conditions can be done with urls that are passed to the instance, and those urls may be swift containers, or something we write which replicates that? | 20:43 |
| shardy | stevebaker: yes | 20:44 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: +1 | 20:44 |
| asalkeld | +1 | 20:44 |
| stevebaker | ok, sounds like the replacement for heat-cfntools is curl :) | 20:44 |
| adrian_otto | will the eventual consistency of a swift container be an issue? | 20:44 |
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| zaneb | adrian_otto: eventually | 20:45 |
| adrian_otto | I imagine that if you used one of those for a wait condition backing store taht you might end up in a race | 20:45 |
| asalkeld | you might have to retry | 20:46 |
| asalkeld | but doubt race | 20:46 |
| zaneb | wait conditions only append data, but I don't know how that works in swift/s3 | 20:46 |
| adrian_otto | maybe a poor word choice,, ,I mean that different clients may not see a consistent view of state of that condition. | 20:46 |
| shardy | yeah, one writer, one reader, so only problem would be some additional latency? | 20:46 |
| stevebaker | all you can do with swift temp urls is GET or PUT | 20:47 |
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| shardy | adrian_otto: that depends on the sharding strategy we end up with for multiple engines | 20:47 |
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| zaneb | stevebaker: maybe we do need our own version of that then | 20:47 |
| stevebaker | at least we have an api to copy | 20:48 |
| stevebaker | even if it is sha1 | 20:48 |
| shardy | Yeah, looking at that seems like a good start | 20:48 |
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| shardy | 10mins left, anything else? | 20:49 |
| sdake_ | ask.openstack.org | 20:49 |
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| sdake_ | whoever wrote that ptl guide thinks projects need to guide people to there | 20:49 |
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| sdake_ | i guess to create a record | 20:49 |
| sdake_ | i notice i end up answering the same question several times a week | 20:50 |
| sdake_ | but if we use that we have to maintain it - eg answer questions there | 20:50 |
| sdake_ | point launchpad qs at ask.openstack.org etc | 20:50 |
| shardy | sdake_: good point, but most of the time people drop into IRC looking for answers with a partial question, so we have to start the discussion to fully define the problem | 20:50 |
| shardy | ah, so instead of LP Q's, got it | 20:51 |
| sdake_ | can do that in ask.openstack.org as well | 20:51 |
| sdake_ | like a bug report | 20:51 |
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| zaneb | it's always the same problem, they won't connect their computers to the damn internet | 20:51 |
| * sdake_ giggles at zaneb | 20:51 | |
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| sdake_ | we have the same troubleshooting tips | 20:51 |
| sdake_ | but keep repeating them | 20:52 |
| sdake_ | sucks up time that could be spent coding | 20:52 |
| shardy | Maybe we need a "fix your nova networking" bot ;) | 20:52 |
| sdake_ | ask.openstack.org is async not sync | 20:52 |
| sdake_ | irc support a bit distracting when in middle of software dev | 20:53 |
| shardy | sdake_: OK, good suggestion, lets try directing people there and see how it goes | 20:53 |
| sdake_ | need to also answer questions too :) | 20:53 |
| shardy | most people seem to want an immediate reaction, but definitely worth trying | 20:53 |
| sdake_ | there are a few heatqs on there without answers now | 20:53 |
| shardy | sdake_: can you setup alerts, like for LP Q's? | 20:54 |
| shardy | the LP email is normally what prompts me to look at those | 20:54 |
| sdake_ | i dont think there is a way but someone in infra may know | 20:54 |
| sdake_ | good RFE for mordred :) | 20:54 |
| zaneb | sdake_: maybe stick a notice in the topic on #heat too | 20:55 |
| sdake_ | zaneb i can do that | 20:55 |
| radix | I think I'll post a thing to openstack-dev about autoscaling/otter | 20:55 |
| shardy | radix: sounds good, please do | 20:55 |
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| shardy | anything else, or shall we finish? | 20:56 |
| shardy | Ok, thanks all | 20:56 |
| shardy | #endmeeting | 20:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jun 12 20:56:42 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-06-12-20.00.html | 20:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-06-12-20.00.txt | 20:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-06-12-20.00.log.html | 20:56 |
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| mordred | sdake_: what did I do? | 22:34 |
| sdake_ | mordred did nothign :) | 22:35 |
| sdake_ | we had a question if it was possible to get notified when someone asks a question about heat on ask.openstack.org via the irc bot | 22:35 |
| sdake_ | i believe shardy asked | 22:36 |
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