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| matel | hellpo | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | Ok, so moving to -alt for the xenapi meeting | 15:04 |
| Bobball | okies | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | we lost the bot in here | 15:05 |
| matel | I changed to a shorter nick. | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | the maker of barbie? | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | Ok, so lets stay here | 15:06 |
| matel | Okay | 15:06 |
| matel | Can we get started? | 15:06 |
| matel | who is the maker of barbie? | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | nope, because there is no bot | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | but anyways, lets do it the manual way | 15:06 |
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| johnthetubaguy | the agenda is empty apart from smokestack updates | 15:06 |
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| matel | Maybe I should have put the quantum update there. | 15:07 |
| matel | It is worth to talk about. | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | meeting started up on alt now | 15:07 |
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| jgriffith | #startmeeting cinder | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jun 5 16:01:19 2013 UTC. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | Hey everyone | 16:01 |
| avishay | hello all! | 16:01 |
| dachary | hi | 16:01 |
| xyang_ | hi | 16:01 |
| rushiagr | heylo! | 16:01 |
| DuncanT | Hey | 16:01 |
| jgallard | hi | 16:01 |
| guitarzan | hi | 16:01 |
| * bswartz waves hello | 16:01 | |
| thingee | o/ | 16:01 |
| kmartin | hi | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | Yay... full house :) | 16:01 |
| jsbryant | Happy Wednesday! | 16:01 |
| jdurgin1 | hi | 16:01 |
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| jgriffith | alrighty, let's get started | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | #topic Shares service decision | 16:02 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Shares service decision (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:02 | |
| jgriffith | bswartz: I believe you have some info to share here? | 16:02 |
| eharney | hi | 16:02 |
| zhiyan | hi | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | eharney: 0/ | 16:02 |
| bswartz | yes we've decided to give up on having the share service in cinder -- we're going to start a new project | 16:02 |
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| bswartz | It's what everyone seems to prefer, and we agree it's the right long term approach | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: very exciting! | 16:03 |
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| bswartz | in the short term the biggest hurdle to doing that is getting stuff moved to oslo | 16:03 |
| avishay | cool, sounds like the right approach | 16:03 |
| eharney | sounds great | 16:03 |
| kmartin | +1 | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: so abou that | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: can you tell me what Cinder code it is you want moved to OSLO? | 16:04 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: Rob Esker mentioned that yesterday but couldn't tell me what code he was referring to | 16:04 |
| bswartz | so the easiest thing for us to do is to fork cinder including our current share service implementation, then remove everything blocks related, then start renaming stuff | 16:04 |
| bswartz | however that will result in a lot of duplicated code at the end | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: sure... | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: but I'm wondering about the OSLO statements | 16:05 |
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| jgriffith | they've come up a couple times and I don't know what they mean :) | 16:05 |
| bswartz | so if we can find a way to move some of the common stuff into oslo then the new project and cinder can simply share it | 16:05 |
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| bswartz | I'm thinking in particular about some of the scheduler and API server bits | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | sure... that's the intent of OSLO anyway | 16:06 |
| bswartz | I know there will be a lot of duplication there | 16:06 |
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| avishay | I guess a fair amount of that is in Nova too | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | scheduler and API are efforts OpenStack wide | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | avishay: +1 | 16:06 |
| rushiagr | I think many of the 'things' in Cinder are derived from nova, and most of that is already in Oslo? not sure | 16:06 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: bswartz and EVERY other OpenStack project :) | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: it's getting there | 16:06 |
| bswartz | honestly I don't have more detail than that today on requirements to move stuff to oslo | 16:06 |
| bswartz | when we start performing the fork we may discover other stuff that's common | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: bswartz you may have noticed massive efforts by winstond and others on the scheduler moving in to OSLO already | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | as well as RPC | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: cool | 16:07 |
| rushiagr | yes, I saw efforts on scheduler | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: keep in mind the API stuff has also been brought up by teams like ironic, triple-o, RedDwarf etc etc | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | There's a lot of interest there | 16:08 |
| rushiagr | hmmm..need to come up with a better understanding of what bits of Cinder is already in oslo, or is used openstack wide | 16:08 |
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| jgriffith | rushiagr: so the best thing to check is oslo-incubator code base, there's a lot there | 16:08 |
| rushiagr | s/is/are/ | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: and link up with other "new" projects that are going through the same process right now | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | There's no shortage of new project ramping up :) | 16:09 |
| rushiagr | jgriffith: okay, sounds cool | 16:09 |
| bswartz | I don't have anything more on the share service for now | 16:09 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: rushiagr cool.. thanks! | 16:09 |
| bswartz | thanks everyone for your feedback on our share service plans | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: rushiagr let me an others know if we can help with getting started | 16:09 |
| rushiagr | thanks all | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: rushiagr you should probably propose something to TC | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: rushiagr or at least send an email to openstack-dev about your plans | 16:10 |
| avishay | thanks for your work and understanding, and best of luck with the new effort | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | get the ball rolling so to speak | 16:10 |
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| rushiagr | jgriffith: ya, we're going to do that soon | 16:11 |
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| jgriffith | rushiagr: cool | 16:11 |
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| jgriffith | Ok, anything else? | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | #topic direct/IO direct/Attach | 16:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "direct/IO direct/Attach (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:12 | |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: you around? | 16:12 |
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| zhiyan | yes | 16:12 |
| zhiyan | do you remember 'host direct I/O / direct attach feature' discussion in last weekly meeting? | 16:12 |
| zhiyan | (https://etherpad.openstack.org/linked-template-image) | 16:12 |
| avishay | yes, go ahead please | 16:13 |
| * jgriffith didn't know you could use etherpad to write novels :) | 16:13 | |
| zhiyan | I'm not sure there is a discusable draft design currently, hema is working on a design | 16:13 |
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| zhiyan | i know this is a big change, so in order to prevent this cinder requirement not block glance-cinder-driver implementation, i have a plan B.. | 16:13 |
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| jgriffith | zhiyan: So my proposal is/was... | 16:14 |
| zhiyan | the glance-cinder-driver need cinder support, and now there are two choice for me: 1. change cinder to support attaching volume to host/ direct IO. 2. upload/download volume contnet via http. if 1# is not starting, i'd like to get #2 as the plan B. | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | Start with the generic attach/detach lib | 16:14 |
| zhiyan | yes, it's great if we can get 1# | 16:14 |
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| jgriffith | zhiyan: there is effort to get this by H2 (I think) :) | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | hemna_: ^^ | 16:15 |
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| zhiyan | does 2# make your sense too? | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: I'm not sure I like #2 but I may not fully understand what you have in mind | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: it doesn't seem that much different from functionality we already provide | 16:16 |
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| bswartz | zhiyan -- which storage backend is this feature supporting? | 16:17 |
| bswartz | or is it generic? | 16:17 |
| zhiyan | use-case like this: glance api client request download image, then if we have 1#, we can attach the volume from glance host and read the volume bits and send to glance client, if we use 2#, glance will acted as a http proxy | 16:17 |
| zhiyan | bswartz: generic, i think. | 16:17 |
| kmartin | I believe hemna is in route to the office | 16:18 |
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| DuncanT | bswartz: I'd really not like to see it done as anything other than generic (with backend specific optimisation paths where appropriate) | 16:18 |
| jdurgin1 | DuncanT: +1 | 16:18 |
| bswartz | oh this is part of the proposal to use cinder as an image store behind glance | 16:18 |
| avishay | yes | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: +1000 | 16:18 |
| bswartz | okay I get it | 16:19 |
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| jgriffith | zhiyan: can you talk a bit more about #2? | 16:20 |
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| jgriffith | Unless you guys covered all of this already | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | (ie last weeks meeting) | 16:20 |
| DuncanT | Not #2, no | 16:21 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: in 2#, will add a new apis to cinder: upload/download volume by http, then glance-cinder-driver will use this api to read volume bits when glance api client ask download image | 16:21 |
| thingee | DuncanT: +1 | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: that's what I thought and I don't like that idea | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: if you want to attach a cinder volume to glance and do somethign there that's fine | 16:22 |
| avishay | no no no | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | avishay: ?? | 16:22 |
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| avishay | jgriffith: no to idea #2 | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | avishay: oh :) | 16:23 |
| avishay | yes yes yes to what you said :) | 16:23 |
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| jgriffith | zhiyan: so adding an HTTP transfer layer to Cinder isn't something anybody seems overly interested in :) | 16:23 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: yes, i like it too, that's 1# option. it believe it will happen, but maybe not in the timescale that suites me | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: not sure why not? | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: It's not that difficult to create/attach a Cinder volume | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | not sure what I'm missing here... | 16:24 |
| avishay | well if we add HTTP we can compete with Swift ;) | 16:24 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: hush! | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:24 |
| smulcahy | lol | 16:24 |
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| DuncanT | jgriffith: Attaching a ceph volume isn't easy | 16:24 |
| avishay | zhiyan: why not start by copy-pasting the code and continue working on the main portion of your code, then replace it with the generic attach/detach code? | 16:24 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: Nor sheepdog | 16:24 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT: fair, but that is what we're supposed to be in the business of doing isn't it? | 16:25 |
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| DuncanT | jgriffith: Indeed. I'm just not at all sure what the final solution is going to look like | 16:26 |
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| jgriffith | jdurgin1: thoughts ^^ | 16:26 |
| avishay | hemna: good timing :) | 16:26 |
| zhiyan | avishay: do you means, copy nova attach/detach code to glance directly temporarily, and make glance-cinder-drvier work, then to move to cinder generic attach/detach code? | 16:26 |
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| DuncanT | jdurgin had one suggestion that we never expose a volume device and just have a data transfer API | 16:26 |
| jdurgin1 | personally I'd like to see a generic lib for doing i/o to cinder block devices, like brick | 16:26 |
| avishay | zhiyan: does that make sense? just so that this isn't blocking you? | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: that's an option but I'd rather get the brick code first | 16:26 |
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| jgriffith | jdurgin1: +1 | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | jdurgin1: I'm working on it, hopefully get back to it next week | 16:27 |
| hemna | baby steps | 16:27 |
| zhiyan | yes, jgriffith, but seems the brick code not ready for attach/detach... | 16:27 |
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| hemna | we are working on doing attach/detach in brick soon for iSCSI and FC to start | 16:27 |
| jdurgin1 | I'd just like to see the focus on I/o rather than attach/detach, since that seems to be what most things actually care about | 16:27 |
| hemna | zhiyan, we are supposed to get it done for H2 | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | jdurgin1: fair | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | jdurgin1: but you'll have to clarify what you mean specfically there for me :) | 16:28 |
| zhiyan | hemna: thanks. so the time is not good for me... | 16:28 |
| hemna | well, unfortunately I can't go back in time. | 16:28 |
| jdurgin1 | one way to do this would be to reference volume drivers in brick, and add file-like driver methods for opening, closing, reading and writing | 16:28 |
| jdurgin1 | where open/close could include attach/detach when that's necessary | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | jdurgin1: interesting.... so add another abstraction of sorts | 16:29 |
| zhiyan | hemna: fine. so maybe avishay is right...i need copy nova attach/detach code to glance directly temporarily, and make glance-cinder-drvier work, then to move to brick... | 16:29 |
| hemna | that's an option. | 16:29 |
| zhiyan | jdurgin1: +1 | 16:29 |
| hemna | that's what Cinder did for Grizzly | 16:30 |
| hemna | and if brick is stable after H2, then you could pull in brick for H3 and use that instead | 16:30 |
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| hemna | so you aren't blocked on us for the time being. | 16:30 |
| bswartz | jdurgin1: are you proposing having python code in the data path for bulk data operations? | 16:30 |
| bswartz | if so, that seems unwise | 16:31 |
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| avishay | Is this going to Nova as well? | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | avishay: yes (depending on exactly which piece you're referring to) | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | avishay: we want to commonize the existing attach/detach code | 16:32 |
| hemna | avishay, the hope was to eliminate the dupe code between nova and cinder at least for attach/detach | 16:32 |
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| avishay | jgriffith: OK, that's what I thought. In that case an open/close API doesn't seem too good. | 16:32 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: do you think the http volume download/upload is a common feature for cinder? | 16:32 |
| zhiyan | or no value to implement it.. | 16:33 |
| avishay | I wouldn't really care if it was just Cinder and Glance, but for all Nova I/O to go through python... | 16:33 |
| jdurgin1 | bswartz: yes, I don't expect python to be a big bottleneck there | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: I don't.. not really | 16:33 |
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| jdurgin1 | avishay: this wouldn't affect how vms talk to disks | 16:34 |
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| DuncanT | HTTP volume upload was proposed before... I don't remember the outcome of those discussions | 16:34 |
| winston-d | sorry i'm very late | 16:34 |
| avishay | jdurgin1: so what would that path look like? | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: I think somebody said "use swift" | 16:34 |
| jdurgin1 | avishay: what nova I/O are you worried about? | 16:34 |
| hemna | someone wants to upload a 30G volume over http ? | 16:34 |
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| avishay | jdurgin1: a VM reading/writing to a volume | 16:35 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: I was wondering if it could be used e.g. to move volume for AWS into another public cloud [cough] | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: hehe | 16:35 |
| jdurgin1 | avishay: that would still go through the hypervisor - brick need only be used for attach/detach in that case | 16:35 |
| smulcahy | DuncanT: I think you could achieve something like that with swift and the cinder volume backup api | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: so that's a volume migration use case | 16:36 |
| smulcahy | possibly with some slight enhancements to the backup api | 16:36 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT: that's going to suck no matter what IMO | 16:36 |
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| avishay | jdurgin1: so there will be attach/detach as well as open/close? | 16:36 |
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| jdurgin1 | avishay: could be, that's the one use case where we care about attaching rather than doing i/o from nova itself | 16:37 |
| DuncanT | avishay: There will be attach-to-vm, not necessarily attach-to-local-host I think | 16:37 |
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| jgriffith | jdurgin1: I guess I don't quite understand the point still (sorry) | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | I mean abstraction is neat, but.... | 16:38 |
| avishay | OK, if I understand right, that works for me | 16:38 |
| jdurgin1 | the driver-level i/o is useful more generally - it lets us do things like implement generic backup or volume migration without modifying every backend | 16:38 |
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| zhiyan | jgriffith: do you think we can wrap brick with something like cinder-agent, it take care attach volume to instance or attach the volume to the host | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: I think that would be tricky (permissions, host access etc) | 16:39 |
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| jgriffith | jdurgin1: I guess I don't follow | 16:39 |
| zhiyan | since i think the 'connection_info' which cinder api provided is enough for client (i mean cinder-agent) attach it to instance or host | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | jdurgin1: not sure I see the advantage/difference for migration? | 16:40 |
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| jgriffith | zhiyan: I have always just thought it should be something like: | 16:40 |
| winston-d | jdurgin1: having every backend to support driver-level i/o requires them to modify their drivers | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | glance has volume/image database and it's connect info | 16:40 |
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| jgriffith | nova or other asks for an image | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | glance can give back a list of choices | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | 1. Download it via HTTP (existing model) | 16:41 |
| zhiyan | yes, but glance need support create (and upload image content) and download | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | 2. Use a Cinder volume that has it (here's the info for it) | 16:41 |
| zhiyan | yes | 16:41 |
| zhiyan | yes | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | 3. Create a Cinder volume with it | 16:41 |
| jdurgin1 | jgriffith: right now the backup or other new apis that require i/o have to be implemented in each driver, if drivers have an i/o interface a generic implementation can be done that works for these new apis without modifying the drivers, although they could override it for optimization | 16:41 |
| jdurgin1 | winston-d: yes, but it's one addition instead of adding a way of doing it for every new api that require i/o | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | jdurgin1: got ya, although for the majority of back-ends that's not really true | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | jdurgin1: with things like iSCSI we have generic implementations | 16:42 |
| jdurgin1 | jgriffith: yes, but just for iscsi | 16:42 |
| jdurgin1 | we can bump that up a level to all drivers | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | jdurgin1: indeed | 16:43 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: i think so, but under implementation level, i meet the blocker such as, glance-cinder driver how to upload image content to the volume backend ? it need attach volume then to write image bits | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: that's what I've been saying though, Cinder already provides that | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | "cinder create --image-id xxxx" | 16:43 |
| avishay | jgriffith: did I miss something where some cinder-agent won't eventually be doing the attach/detach? it will stay as a library? | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I'm not sure how I feel about the whole agent thing, but I think regardless there are some first steps that need to be taken before we tackle that | 16:44 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: are you means the image will be saved in two different place, one in glance, on in cinder? | 16:44 |
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| hemna | jgriffith, +1 | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: yes that would be the model to start | 16:45 |
| avishay | jgriffith: yes, agreed. but i'd like to remove the requirement for cinder servers to have HBAs connected to the storage. | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: then the next step would be create volume and download image allin one | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | avishay: then use iSCSI :) | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | so this has been why I don't like FC all along just FYI :) | 16:46 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: but again that seems like a discussion in and of itself to me | 16:46 |
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| avishay | jgriffith: iSCSI doesn't solve everything. Some deployments would want separate management and data paths, and Cinder doesn't need to be on the data. | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | I think we're straying fro the issues zhiyan is presenting | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | avishay: ? | 16:47 |
| thingee | and we're running out of time :) | 16:47 |
| avishay | separate networks | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | avishay: you're just moving that requirement to another location | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | thingee: +1 | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | we still have two topics | 16:47 |
| avishay | OK, let's focus :) | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | I'd like to close out the issue with zhiyan quickly and move on | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: It seems option #2 isn't appealing to anybody | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: Option #1 seems favorable | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: but I think we need to break it down | 16:48 |
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| jgriffith | zhiyan: take smaller chunks | 16:48 |
| zhiyan | yes | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: solve the basic model we talked about earlier first | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | then build on it | 16:48 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: i will think about your option | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | as far as timing... | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | I hate the idea of you duplicating code then replacing it when brick is ready | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | I'd really like to see if you can either: | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | 1. help with what's needed in brick | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | 2. wait for brick to be ready | 16:49 |
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| zhiyan | jgriffith: but i like use brick/cinder-agent in future | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | maybe you could stub some things out in the meantime? | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: I don't know what the timing is for cinder-agent etc | 16:50 |
| avishay | jgriffith: to be clear, i didn't mean to contribute that duplicate code, just use it locally in the meantime so he's not stuck | 16:50 |
| DuncanT | My issue here is that I strongly suspect we'll end up shipping H final with a feature that just plain won't work for ceph/sheepdog, and I think that sets a dangerous precident | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: but that's going to be mostly handled by avishay hemna and FC folks I think :) | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I htink we're on the same page | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: so this is the dilema, does that mean we just don't do new features in Cinder? | 16:51 |
| hemna | DuncanT, what breaks ceph ? | 16:51 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT: not saying you're wrong | 16:51 |
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| jdurgin1 | jgriffith: it means don't depend on implementation details of the backend for generic new features | 16:51 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: I don't know how to square the circle... | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: so maybe the answer is cinder is feature complete | 16:51 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: we are in the same page i think, i don't like use duplicate code also, will use brick | 16:52 |
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| jgriffith | jdurgin1: understood | 16:52 |
| zhiyan | and i'd like contribute something to brick if hemna, avishay need me | 16:52 |
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| jgriffith | jdurgin1: but I have to rely on you or other Ceph experts to propose alternatives that work for everybody | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | jdurgin1: and also don't hinder/hamper anybody else | 16:52 |
| zhiyan | seems R/O volume support discussion need move to next meeting? | 16:53 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: We work like iscsi in this regards, but I can understand the concerns of people who don't | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | Ok.. I think we should talk about the Ceph and FC issues in another topic | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | #topic R/O volumes | 16:53 |
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| hemna | k | 16:53 |
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| jgriffith | zhiyan: Just to be clear I intend to see this land in Cinder at some point | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: I don't necessarily see all of the concerns | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: and all the hypervisors seem to have some level of support | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: if I'm completely wrong and it blows up, well then live and learn | 16:54 |
| avishay | does Xen support? I thought at the summit they said no? | 16:54 |
| DuncanT | Xen does, according to their docs | 16:55 |
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| kmartin | avishay: jgriffith found a way that Xen will support as well as VMware | 16:55 |
| kmartin | working with the VMware team in HP to switch to a different api to support this then what they had planned on using | 16:56 |
| johnthetubaguy | For xenapi do ping me if you have issues, there is work Ceph support and already do some FC/HBA support | 16:57 |
| johnthetubaguy | oh, missread, there are read only volumes too | 16:58 |
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| kmartin | jgriffith: u there? | 17:01 |
| hartsocks | @jgriffith hey guys we have the room in this time slot. | 17:01 |
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| hartsocks | Is the previous meeting over? | 17:02 |
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| kmartin | we lost jgriffith, so yes it's over | 17:03 |
| hartsocks | #endmeeting | 17:03 |
| hartsocks | (not sure that will work) | 17:03 |
| kmartin | I believe he needs to end the meeting | 17:03 |
| rushiagr | hartsocks: wont work without jgriffith :( | 17:03 |
| hartsocks | ugh. | 17:03 |
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| hartsocks | Wonder what happens when I do this... | 17:04 |
| hartsocks | #startmeeting | 17:04 |
| openstack | hartsocks: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress. | 17:04 |
| hemna | #endmeeting | 17:04 |
| hartsocks | nice. | 17:04 |
| rushiagr | I think you can move folks to #openstack-meeting-alt | 17:04 |
| rushiagr | the alternate meeting channel | 17:04 |
| hartsocks | Let me check to see if it's clear. | 17:05 |
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| hartsocks | Okay. | 17:05 |
| hartsocks | If folks can /join me over on openstack-meeting-alt | 17:05 |
| * rushiagr hopes this net split disconnects jgriffith :P | 17:05 | |
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| jgriffith | #endmeeting | 17:06 |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jun 5 17:06:29 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:06 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-06-05-16.01.html | 17:06 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-06-05-16.01.txt | 17:06 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-06-05-16.01.log.html | 17:06 |
| jgriffith | ha!! | 17:06 |
| rushiagr | jgriffith: just a bit late :) | 17:06 |
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| hartsocks | We are meeting in openstack-meeting-alt for now. | 17:07 |
| hartsocks | Anyone left in this room that couldn't figure out how to move over? | 17:07 |
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| *** hobana.freenode.net changes topic to "R/O volumes (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 17:08 | |
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| hartsocks | #startmeeting VMwareAPI | 17:09 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jun 5 17:09:15 2013 UTC. The chair is hartsocks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:09 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:09 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi' | 17:09 |
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| hartsocks | #salutations | 17:10 |
| hartsocks | Shawn Hartsock, VMware here. | 17:10 |
| ivoks | Ante Karamatic, Canonical | 17:10 |
| tjones1 | Tracy Jones, VMware | 17:10 |
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| kirankv | Kiran KV, HP | 17:10 |
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| hartsocks | Anyone else want to say hi? | 17:11 |
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| zhiyan | hi Zhi Yan | 17:12 |
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| hartsocks | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/VMwareAPI#Agenda | 17:12 |
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| Eustace | Hi Eustace here | 17:12 |
| rsacharya_ | Srinivas from HP | 17:12 |
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| hartsocks | I'm alternating each meeting ... | 17:13 |
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| hartsocks | some meetings I start bugs first… some I start blueprints first... | 17:13 |
| Sabari_ | Hi Sabari here, I recently started contributing to VMware driver | 17:13 |
| hartsocks | Anybody else? | 17:14 |
| hartsocks | #topic Bugs | 17:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:14 | |
| hartsocks | Critical bugs... | 17:14 |
| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1180044 | 17:14 |
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| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1180044 in nova "nova boot fails with multiple vCenter managed datacenters" [Critical,In progress] | 17:14 |
| hartsocks | I'm going to work on this today and tomorrow, I hope to put up a patch this week on it. | 17:15 |
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| hartsocks | I've changed the name to reflect a better triage of the problem. | 17:15 |
| hartsocks | It seems when you have multiple datacenters in some setups the OpenStack driver gets confused. | 17:15 |
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| hartsocks | The other high priority bug is: | 17:16 |
| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1183192 | 17:16 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1183192 in nova "VMware VC Driver does not honor hw_vif_model from glance" [Critical,In progress] | 17:16 |
| hartsocks | Is there anyone around who can comment on this? | 17:16 |
| ivoks | all i can see is that commit requires just a test case | 17:16 |
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| ivoks | i'll ping yaguang this week to provide some info about it | 17:17 |
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| ivoks | s/this week/tomorrow | 17:17 |
| hartsocks | okay | 17:18 |
| hartsocks | #action ivoks to follow up with yaguang | 17:18 |
| hartsocks | Are there any other bugs that are critical/blockers that we should be putting developer effort on right away? | 17:18 |
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| hartsocks | What about patches in need of reviews? | 17:19 |
| hartsocks | I have one: | 17:19 |
| hartsocks | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30036/ | 17:20 |
| hartsocks | Any others? | 17:20 |
| hartsocks | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30036/ | 17:20 |
| kirankv | Ive got a couple | 17:20 |
| kirankv | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29396/ | 17:20 |
| kirankv | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29552/ | 17:20 |
| kirankv | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30282/ | 17:21 |
| Sabari_ | I have one: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30822/ | 17:21 |
| hartsocks | looks like pep8 changed on me. My local pep8 passes. | 17:21 |
| hartsocks | hmmm... | 17:22 |
| hartsocks | Let's try and review each other's changes then and watch for new formatting rules. | 17:23 |
| hartsocks | Anything else on bugs before we move to blueprints? | 17:23 |
| Sabari_ | okay, I didn't see that the Jenkins build failed for the latest patchset. Should look into it. | 17:23 |
| hartsocks | @sabari_ yeah, watch that. | 17:24 |
| hartsocks | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova,n,z | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | lists all open reviews for the openstack/nova project | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | I look for "vmware" in the subject line in these for patches to pay attention to reviewing. | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | Okay anything else? | 17:26 |
| Sabari_ | @kirankv Would like to know about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30628/ | 17:26 |
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| hartsocks | BTW: if folks would like to have me look at a patch add my username "hartsocks" as a reviewer and it will come up on my list of things todo. | 17:27 |
| kirankv | ok, so the change being done is to pick up the *shared* datastore that has enough space to contain the VM disk | 17:27 |
| kirankv | by shared, it means shared across all the hosts in the cluster | 17:28 |
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| Sabari_ | okay, I am interested in the review because I may have a dependency on it. I am working on the fix for bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1104994 | 17:29 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1104994 in nova "Multi datastore support for provisioning of instances on ESX" [High,In progress] | 17:29 |
| Sabari_ | the basic goal was just that an admin way to use some datastores for openstack, but not others, and a regex seems like an easy way that the admin could identify a set of datastores but exclude some others. | 17:30 |
| kirankv | its like having two different filters for the datastores, the regex way or consider all shared datastores | 17:32 |
| kirankv | both can co-exist | 17:32 |
| kirankv | and one of them is configured for the driver | 17:32 |
| hartsocks | Would the order be: | 17:33 |
| hartsocks | find all datastores (use regex if present) | 17:33 |
| hartsocks | then find datastore in this list with the most space | 17:33 |
| hartsocks | ? | 17:33 |
| Sabari_ | @kirankv This change can complement your fix to address the capacity issue. But depending on what goes in first, the other has to resolve conflicts. | 17:34 |
| Sabari_ | I had some irc issues reading the latest comments. Hold on. | 17:34 |
| kirankv | yes, there would be rebasing and merge conflict resolution that needs to be done based on who goes in first | 17:34 |
| hartsocks | That's going to happen. | 17:34 |
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| hartsocks | Who ever goes last has to manage the merge. | 17:35 |
| Sabari_ | If the regex is not specified, the default behavior kicks-in. And that would be the shared datastore filter, if merged. | 17:36 |
| Sabari_ | Yes, that would be the resolution | 17:36 |
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| hartsocks | Okay, so are we clear on what to do with 1104994? | 17:36 |
| hartsocks | I would like to move on to blueprints. | 17:37 |
| Sabari_ | Yes, I am now. | 17:37 |
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| hartsocks | #topic blueprints | 17:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:37 | |
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| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/multiple-clusters-managed-by-one-service | 17:37 |
| hartsocks | Firstly, thanks for getting those pesky copyright issues taken care of! | 17:37 |
| kirankv | must thank Eustace for following it up | 17:38 |
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| kirankv | just submitted a patch today for the bp, couldnt work on getting it earlier | 17:39 |
| hartsocks | Thanks Eustace! | 17:39 |
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| hartsocks | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30282/ | 17:39 |
| hartsocks | that the one? | 17:39 |
| hartsocks | Looks like someone put it in my reviewer queue | 17:39 |
| kirankv | yes | 17:40 |
| Eustace | welcome.. | 17:40 |
| hartsocks | so, this is working? I see tests. I like tests. | 17:40 |
| hartsocks | Okay moving on... | 17:41 |
| hartsocks | There has been some discussion over in #openstack-vmware about | 17:42 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/hypervisor-templates-as-glance-images | 17:42 |
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| kirankv | yes, but had to some code to make the patchset smaller, will follow it up with other patchsets once this gets through | 17:42 |
| kirankv | once the current patchset is through will submit a new one | 17:42 |
| hartsocks | From my reading this blueprint is about making glance use vCenter as a kind of image storage server. | 17:42 |
| kirankv | that handle the templates bp | 17:43 |
| hartsocks | So am I reading correctly? | 17:43 |
| hartsocks | I think @ivoks had some comments on this. | 17:43 |
| ivoks | i can just repeat what i said... | 17:44 |
| kirankv | there wouldnt be code change in glance for this, figured out that the image metadata can be used. changes will be in nova to deploy the template | 17:44 |
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| hartsocks | @ivoks probably a good idea to summarize things here for the record. | 17:44 |
| ivoks | sure | 17:45 |
| ivoks | so, i don't think we should have image type (template) that can be used only by one hypervisor | 17:45 |
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| ivoks | instead, if possible, i think that having another storage backend for glance, that would communicate with vcenter, would be a better approach | 17:46 |
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| ivoks | but i don't have any strong feelings about this; it just crossed my mind that hypervisor specific things should be contained within nova | 17:46 |
| hartsocks | my though here was that if the template is in vCenter, then it should be possible to modify the OpenStack + VMwareAPI driver to make use of that fact. | 17:47 |
| hartsocks | If the template and the VM are both in the same vCenter Glance can do less work. | 17:48 |
| hartsocks | If the template and the VM are under different hypervisors … glance still needs to stream the image. | 17:48 |
| kirankv | ivoks: for this specific bp, changes are contained in nova, however the drawback is that the template is restricted to a vCenter | 17:48 |
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| kirankv | the other problem is that linked clone deployment does not happen for templates and they do happen for other glance images | 17:50 |
| ivoks | exactly | 17:50 |
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| kirankv | but it gives the admin the ability to use the existing templates | 17:50 |
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| hartsocks | so… how does the glance change work? | 17:51 |
| hartsocks | Can we document that? | 17:51 |
| kirankv | yes, the meta data that needs to be set needs to be documented, will send that long with the patch for the bp | 17:52 |
| ivoks | so, in this case you would still have regular glance images + templates (vsphere specific) | 17:52 |
| ivoks | ? | 17:52 |
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| kirankv | yes, the regular glance images co-exist with the templates, in case of templates no image is uploaded, just an ovf | 17:53 |
| ivoks | (excuse me if i sound silly) | 17:53 |
| ivoks | right... | 17:53 |
| tjones1 | not silly - i was wondering the same thing | 17:54 |
| hartsocks | @kirankv is it possible to make your change in a way that allows vCenter templates to potentially serve other hypervisors? | 17:54 |
| ivoks | hartsocks: in that case, yaguang's BP does make sense; vsphere needs to handle images better | 17:54 |
| ivoks | but we'll get to that one later | 17:55 |
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| hartsocks | the other BP is here: | 17:55 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/improve-vmware-disk-usage | 17:55 |
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| hartsocks | This one isn't slated as a high priority, but I put it on the agenda because it seems related. | 17:56 |
| kirankv | hartsocks: that would be a nice feature to have, but not sure of how that would be done | 17:56 |
| ivoks | it's more a blueprint for vsphere than for the nova :) | 17:57 |
| hartsocks | Well, I'm going to publicly admit I have no idea what an "ephemeral disk" is. | 17:57 |
| hartsocks | It sound like our "thin provision" disk | 17:58 |
| hartsocks | But it might not be. | 17:58 |
| hartsocks | We're short on time. | 17:58 |
| ivoks | it's a disk that's not kept after the instance is terminated | 17:59 |
| ivoks | you can call it temporary disk | 17:59 |
| hartsocks | ah… well… we *do* have an API for that. | 17:59 |
| hartsocks | You just have to put driver code in that calls it. | 17:59 |
| tjones1 | LOL - i just googled it too. Sounds like a ram disk concept | 18:00 |
| hartsocks | I would like @kirankv and @ivoks, and whomever is interested to head over to #openstack-vmware to continue discussion on this design issue. | 18:00 |
| ivoks | sure | 18:00 |
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| kirankv | ivoks: what time zone are you in, Im +5.30 UTC, so its little late for me today | 18:01 |
| hartsocks | I would also like to encourage any of you who have issues to make use of #openstack-vmware to hold impromptu meetings and discussions and then report those back here when it's warranted. | 18:01 |
| ivoks | kirankv: utc +2 | 18:01 |
| ivoks | kirankv: we can catch up during the day tomorrow | 18:02 |
| kirankv | ivoks: will discuss on openstack-vmware tomm/early next week | 18:02 |
| ivoks | ok | 18:02 |
| hartsocks | okay, we're out of time | 18:02 |
| kirankv | ok | 18:03 |
| hartsocks | We kind of got shorted by the other team. But, I think we made good use of our time today. | 18:03 |
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| hartsocks | #endmeeting | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "R/O volumes (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 18:03 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jun 5 18:03:40 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:03 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-06-05-17.09.html | 18:03 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-06-05-17.09.txt | 18:03 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-06-05-17.09.log.html | 18:03 |
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| shardy | #startmeeting heat | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jun 5 20:00:16 2013 UTC. The chair is shardy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 20:00 |
| shardy | #topic rollcall | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| wirehead_ | o/ | 20:00 |
| randallburt | hello all | 20:00 |
| jpeeler | hi | 20:00 |
| andrew_plunk | hello | 20:00 |
| zaneb | heya | 20:00 |
| radix | hello | 20:00 |
| bgorski | hi all | 20:00 |
| alexheneveld | howdy | 20:01 |
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| asalkeld | hi | 20:01 |
| stevebaker | hi | 20:01 |
| tspatzier | hi | 20:01 |
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| timductive | hi | 20:01 |
| shardy | hi all, lets get started :) | 20:02 |
| shardy | #topic Review last week's actions | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review last week's actions (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:02 | |
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| shardy | I actually don't think there are any: | 20:02 |
| shardy | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-05-29-20.00.html | 20:02 |
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| shardy | Did anyone have anything from last meeting they wanted to mention? | 20:03 |
| asalkeld | nope | 20:03 |
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| shardy | ok | 20:03 |
| shardy | #topic h2 blueprint status | 20:03 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "h2 blueprint status (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:03 | |
| shardy | So thanks to zaneb for attending the release/status meeting yesterday | 20:03 |
| zaneb | np | 20:03 |
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| shardy | there were a couple of queries re h2 bps | 20:04 |
| zaneb | luckily it was the one just after h1, so not much to report :) | 20:04 |
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| shardy | need an assignee for stack-metadata randallburt, or anyone, interested in picking that up for h2? | 20:04 |
| shardy | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/stack-metadata | 20:04 |
| randallburt | I started some work on https://github.com/openstack/heat/blob/master/heat/engine/resource.py#L574 will probably have many questions for irc tomorrow ;) but I can switch gears with little issue | 20:04 |
| asalkeld | I don't like the idea of it | 20:05 |
| adrian_otto | asalkeld: ? | 20:05 |
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| asalkeld | see comment | 20:05 |
| shardy | asalkeld: I saw your whiteboard comment, can you expand? | 20:05 |
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| asalkeld | well rather make a static resource | 20:05 |
| asalkeld | and link to it | 20:05 |
| kebray | late, but present. | 20:05 |
| asalkeld | via a reference | 20:05 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: rather than use a pseudo-parameter you mean? | 20:06 |
| asalkeld | yea | 20:06 |
| shardy | asalkeld: so a Metadata-only resource? | 20:06 |
| asalkeld | sounds like a hack | 20:06 |
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| randallburt | asalkeld: are we asking the template author to wire these things up explicitly? | 20:06 |
| asalkeld | not sure | 20:06 |
| asalkeld | probably | 20:06 |
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| zaneb | asalkeld: so, the idea is that you have your "provider" template for, say, an Instance | 20:06 |
| randallburt | if a resource needs/uses metadata, then the user passes that in via a parameter today, yes? | 20:06 |
| zaneb | and the Instance has metadata | 20:06 |
| zaneb | and you have to pass that through somehow to the _actual_ Instance inside the provider template | 20:07 |
| asalkeld | so use a load config | 20:07 |
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| zaneb | asalkeld: but not all provider templates will be providers for Instances | 20:07 |
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| asalkeld | that we it is _more_ composeable | 20:08 |
| therve | You mean launch config? | 20:08 |
| asalkeld | ya | 20:08 |
| asalkeld | or an openstack equiverelant | 20:08 |
| randallburt | I thought the idea was to make the template look and feel just like any other resource; sounds like we need a little more discussion here before proceeding? maybe on the ML? | 20:08 |
| shardy | but this is about Metadata for e.g nested stacks, which need not necessarily map to an instance config? | 20:08 |
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| zaneb | asalkeld: a launch config _outside_ of the provider template? | 20:08 |
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| asalkeld | ya | 20:08 |
| asalkeld | could be a seperate file | 20:09 |
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| asalkeld | so almost no need for the nested stack | 20:09 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: I think that's a good way for users to implement it once we actually have that resource | 20:09 |
| adrian_otto | If I am understanding the blueprint properly, I think it's asking the rhetorical question: if resources can have attributes (referred to here as metadata) then so should stacks so stacks can masquerade as resources, as needed. Do I understand it correctly? | 20:09 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: but it doesn't solve the problem that resources have metadata and providers, without this feature, effectively can't get at it | 20:10 |
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| zaneb | adrian_otto: correct | 20:10 |
| adrian_otto | ok, then I support the addition of the feature. | 20:10 |
| asalkeld | why can' t nested stacks just have metadata? | 20:10 |
| asalkeld | (not as a parameter) | 20:11 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: they can, the point is giving people a way to access it from inside the provider template | 20:11 |
| asalkeld | can't you? | 20:11 |
| asalkeld | ok, well I think it needs some more thought | 20:12 |
| asalkeld | doesn't have to be here | 20:12 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: in code, yes, but not using the template syntax | 20:12 |
| zaneb | yeah, let's punt this to the mailing list | 20:12 |
| asalkeld | (just seems ugly) | 20:12 |
| randallburt | zaneb: agreed | 20:12 |
| tspatzier | can you give an example for metadata, I mean in contrast to properties? | 20:12 |
| tspatzier | I meant parameters ... | 20:12 |
| randallburt | shardy: should I switch focus to this issue/bp then or keep going with attribute schema for now? | 20:12 |
| alexheneveld | doesn't AWS support this? so seems we should too… http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSCloudFormation/latest/UserGuide/aws-attribute-metadata.html | 20:13 |
| zaneb | tspatzier: look at how SpamapS is using it | 20:13 |
| fsargent | lo | 20:13 |
| shardy | randallburt: no stick with what you're working on, we just need someone to take owndership of this sometime soon as it's a high prio BP targetted at h2 | 20:13 |
| randallburt | k | 20:13 |
| tspatzier | zaneb: you mean in the openstack-ops repo? | 20:13 |
| zaneb | alexheneveld: no, we're talking about accessing it within provider templates, which aws doesn't have | 20:14 |
| shardy | Anyone going to take an action to start the ML discussion? | 20:14 |
| zaneb | tspatzier: yes | 20:14 |
| alexheneveld | zaneb: thx | 20:14 |
| randallburt | chirp chirp | 20:14 |
| zaneb | *cough*asalkeld*cough* | 20:14 |
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| asalkeld | you ok zaneb | 20:14 |
| asalkeld | ? | 20:14 |
| asalkeld | sure I can email | 20:15 |
| shardy | #action asalkeld/zaneb to start ML discussion re stack metadata ;) | 20:15 |
| shardy | next item is: | 20:15 |
| shardy | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/discover-catalog-resources | 20:15 |
| shardy | SpamapS: is this going to happen for h2, or should we bump it to h3? | 20:15 |
| zaneb | is SpamapS here? he hasn't said anything | 20:16 |
| stevebaker | horizon are working on similar stuff here, we should see what they are doing | 20:16 |
| shardy | Ok, we'll leave that and discuss it another time | 20:16 |
| shardy | #topic blueprint/bug process reminder | 20:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprint/bug process reminder (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:16 | |
| stevebaker | well, they already hide features if an endpoint isn't available. they're now working on introspecting api features for more fine-grained ui changes | 20:17 |
| shardy | This is just a reminder, can everyone please make sure, if they're working on features, that they have an associated blueprint, and that they are targetted to whenever the feature is likely to land | 20:17 |
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| shardy | and likewise with bugs | 20:17 |
| shardy | I know some people don't like the process, but if we all just follow the process and use launchpad etc it makes my life much, much easier :) | 20:18 |
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| shardy | also pls make sure commit messages and topic branches map to the BP/bug etc | 20:19 |
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| shardy | onwards.. | 20:19 |
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| shardy | #topic h1 milestone release/status of Tempest integration | 20:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "h1 milestone release/status of Tempest integration (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:19 | |
| shardy | So. We released the h1 milestone with a critical regression, which was unfortunate | 20:20 |
| SpamapS | sorry I was pulled off onto other stuff | 20:20 |
| * stevebaker summons mordred | 20:20 | |
| shardy | anyone (stevebaker?) got an update on Tempest integration? | 20:20 |
| stevebaker | so heat will be switched on for devstack tempest soon, and we can gate on that | 20:21 |
| SpamapS | shardy: bump discover-catalog-resources to h3. I need to focus on rolling updates. | 20:21 |
| stevebaker | meaningful tests will require launching images though... | 20:21 |
| shardy | also, everyone, please, please, please actually run heat and test stuff before posting big changes, particularly before we have the Tempest stuff sorted | 20:21 |
| stevebaker | first barrier to that is getting this review through, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/28651/ had some comments sdague | 20:22 |
| stevebaker | sorry, I meant sdague had some comments | 20:22 |
| shardy | stevebaker: Ok, so it's all in-progress then, think we'll have reasonable Tempest coverage by h2? | 20:23 |
| zaneb | some completely wrong comments :/ | 20:23 |
| radix | really good to hear about Tempest integration | 20:23 |
| stevebaker | second task is having an image to test against. mordred mentioned that they intend to get dib building within openstack ci, putting test images on static.openstack.org | 20:23 |
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| stevebaker | however I wonder if we could just put some known good images on static.openstack.org in the meantime | 20:24 |
| shardy | stevebaker: +1, just actually launching a stack would be a great start | 20:24 |
| stevebaker | tl;dr, we'll have something by h2 ;) | 20:24 |
| shardy | stevebaker: Ok great | 20:24 |
| mordred | stevebaker: what? | 20:24 |
| SpamapS | a stock Ubuntu 12.04 image works fine with heat. You just don't get heat-cfntools. | 20:24 |
| SpamapS | F17 probably works fine too | 20:25 |
| stevebaker | mordred: ^^ see second task | 20:25 |
| sdague | stevebaker: just move it to thirdparty directory | 20:25 |
| mordred | yeah - we actually have pleia2 doing work on testing tripleo right now | 20:25 |
| zaneb | do we have an up-to-date guide on how to install devstack on a VM, with Heat, with images and get it all running first time? | 20:25 |
| stevebaker | sdague: our point is that it is not a third party test | 20:25 |
| mordred | part of that workflow chain will probably involve figuring out image publication | 20:25 |
| radix | zaneb: I've been trying just that recently, it's... not easy | 20:25 |
| sdague | stevebaker: it's using non openstack native datastructures, that puts it in thirdparty in tempest | 20:26 |
| shardy | zaneb: I don't think so, we need to update all our getting started docs | 20:26 |
| zaneb | sdague: it's using the only datastructures we support | 20:26 |
| SpamapS | sdague: seeing as cloudformation does not have support for yaml.. I beg to differ. | 20:26 |
| SpamapS | HeatTemplateFormatVersion: '2012-12-12' | 20:26 |
| stevebaker | mordred: should we wait for the image building chain to be in place, or could we start with some manually built and uploaded images? | 20:27 |
| sdague | zaneb: there are heat blueprints to implement native resource types, once those are in, that can go in api | 20:27 |
| mordred | stevebaker: in tempest? | 20:27 |
| mordred | stevebaker: I mean, to use inside of tempest/devstack testing? | 20:27 |
| stevebaker | mordred: yes, for heat to run image-launching tests in tempest | 20:27 |
| sdague | thirdparty all runs on all the runs right now anyway | 20:27 |
| SpamapS | sdague: yaml formatted templates are native to heat and heat alone. The API is a native Heat API. | 20:27 |
| sdague | so I'm not sure why you'd be oposed to putting it there | 20:27 |
| zaneb | sdague: heat was accepted as a part of OpenStack without those | 20:27 |
| mordred | stevebaker: well - right now reddwarf is building images as part of their devstack sequence | 20:28 |
| mordred | stevebaker: that's the _easiest_ thing to do | 20:28 |
| stevebaker | mordred: ooo, I'll take a look | 20:28 |
| SpamapS | sdague: just because it works like cfn doesn't make it thirdparty. | 20:28 |
| mordred | stevebaker: but - if you do have an unchanging base image or two, I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to get onto static.o.o for the short term either | 20:28 |
| stevebaker | mordred: ok, lets figure it out later | 20:29 |
| mordred | stevebaker: cool | 20:29 |
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| shardy | Ok, well we can continue this discussion over the coming weeks, but in the meantime, we share a collective responsibility to actually test stuff manually (not just unit tests) before postin | 20:29 |
| shardy | posting even | 20:30 |
| shardy | #topic Open discussion | 20:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:30 | |
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| stevebaker | sdague: the criteria for being in thirdparty or not seems vague, you're implying we would come out of it as soon as neither the strings "aws" nor "ec2" appear in our templates, which seems somewhat arbitrary | 20:30 |
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| shardy | anyone have anything else they want to mention? | 20:31 |
| SpamapS | right, what I'd rather see is that thirdparty is used for *pure* cloudformation template testing. | 20:31 |
| timductive | is anyone else currently working on heat UI/interested in working on heat UI? | 20:31 |
| radix | shardy: I'm trying as hard as I can to become a heat developer ;-P just struggling with getting a *real* working test environment | 20:31 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: +1. Or for testing the heat-cfn-api | 20:31 |
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| stevebaker | sdague: to me, thirdparty is to validate compatibility with non-native APIs | 20:32 |
| sdague | stevebaker: well, that's my -1. just went through a lot of work restructuring tempest to get all aws references out of api | 20:32 |
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| shardy | radix: well you just need a working grizzly/havana openstack plus heat | 20:32 |
| wirehead_ | We had some nice chats with radix and therve while they were in SF about autoscaling, shardy. :) | 20:32 |
| jrcookli | +1 for working on heat UI | 20:32 |
| shardy | you don't *have* to use devstack | 20:32 |
| zaneb | sdague: there's no AWS references in the _API_ | 20:32 |
| radix | shardy: yeah... I don't think I have access to any instance of that kind of environment, at the moment | 20:33 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: he means the api package in tempest | 20:33 |
| shardy | wirehead_: so actually, do you plan contributions in the AS area, e.g the discussed AS API? | 20:33 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: ah, ok | 20:33 |
| radix | shardy: yeah, that's my job :-) | 20:33 |
| shardy | I've left it off the havana plan for now, as everything went kind of quiet after summit... | 20:33 |
| alexheneveld | radix: this -- http://www.cloudsoftcorp.com/blog/getting-started-with-heat-devstack-vagrant/ -- may be helpful. networking can be somewhat fiddly, i've found. | 20:33 |
| wirehead_ | We needed to assemble for you a dark army of doom. | 20:33 |
| radix | alexheneveld: yes, networking is the entirety of the cause of my headaches | 20:34 |
| radix | alexheneveld: I guess I can try it this way | 20:34 |
| shardy | radix: ok, well let us know in #heat if you need help and we can try to get you started | 20:35 |
| radix | thanks a lot :) | 20:35 |
| zaneb | shardy: I need help | 20:35 |
| shardy | sounds like all our getting started docs need a refresh | 20:35 |
| randallburt | lol | 20:35 |
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| radix | wait, I need help first! | 20:35 |
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| shardy | zaneb: lol ;) | 20:35 |
| radix | hehe | 20:35 |
| * SpamapS gets pulled away again | 20:35 | |
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| wirehead_ | I have the urge to fix up the docs. Just haven't been able to find the focused time to really get it done. :/ | 20:36 |
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| asalkeld | any news on a rackspace server resource landing? | 20:36 |
| kebray | Yep | 20:36 |
| kebray | jason, andrew, and vijendar are making really good progress on resources for rackspace cloud servers, loadbalancers, and databases. Additionally, we are planning a Horizon blueprint to graphically show progress on deploying a stack that displays resource state. | 20:36 |
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| shardy | kebray: is there somewhere we can see the code? | 20:37 |
| stevebaker | kebray: I've been thinking about that too | 20:37 |
| * asalkeld keen on a server resource (alpha?) | 20:37 | |
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| randallburt | jasond: ? | 20:37 |
| sdague | stevebaker: so when heat takes in ec2 resources, what kinds of API calls is it making to nova? | 20:37 |
| kebray | jasond, you have the code in public yet? | 20:37 |
| jasond | it's very early, but https://github.com/jasondunsmore/heat/branches | 20:38 |
| shardy | sdague: it makes openstack native (not ec2) calls to the nova API | 20:38 |
| stevebaker | sdague: all calls from heat to other openstack APIs are native openstack | 20:38 |
| jasond | here are my TODOs http://dunsmor.com/heat/cloud-servers-provider.html | 20:38 |
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| kebray | we're still playing with cnf-tools and cloud-init.. learning process. but, good progress is being made. | 20:38 |
| stevebaker | sdague: only the resource definition in the template mentions aws, its native openstack end-to-end | 20:38 |
| kebray | did we ever land on whether this are going in-tree? | 20:39 |
| wirehead_ | The last time we discussed this, everybody seemed to be gung-ho about in-tree, but not what it meant to be in-tree. | 20:39 |
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| sdague | stevebaker: and in h2 we'll get os native resources? | 20:39 |
| asalkeld | jasond / kebray try posting reviews and marking them as "work in progress" | 20:39 |
| shardy | kebray: I think we decided yes at last weeks meeting, but nobody that keen to drive reorganizing the tree ;) | 20:40 |
| asalkeld | (there is a special button "work in progress" | 20:40 |
| shardy | +1 on posting WIP/draft reviews | 20:40 |
| stevebaker | sdague: yes, native resource writing is ongoing, nova::server is being worked on right now | 20:40 |
| jasond | i put the cloud servers resource provider under heat/engine/resources/rackspace_cloud/ | 20:40 |
| zaneb | kebray: there was widespread agreement on in-tree, and carping about /contrib. Mostly from me ;) | 20:40 |
| kebray | asalkeld: ok.. thx. Yeah, we need to get this code in the right place. | 20:40 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, why contib? | 20:41 |
| sdague | stevebaker: so I'll +2 on the condition someone files a bug that we can track to get that cut over after heat supports it | 20:41 |
| asalkeld | whats wrong with engine/resources/rackspace/ | 20:41 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: it doesn't seem like something to be installed by default to me | 20:41 |
| asalkeld | to me it does | 20:41 |
| stevebaker | sdague: ok, much appreciated. I think we already have an umbrella bp for that | 20:41 |
| sdague | I'll stick that in the review comments, we can finish the conversation there | 20:41 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: having a different resource type for every cloud provider is... you know... a bug, not a feature, long term | 20:42 |
| kebray | zaneb: agreed :-) | 20:42 |
| wirehead_ | Yeah. The whole thing where Heat becomes really and truly awesome is the ability to run your own Heat instance that talks to other people's clouds. | 20:42 |
| randallburt | but a real need in the short term | 20:42 |
| stevebaker | sdague: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/abstract-aws | 20:42 |
| asalkeld | really | 20:42 |
| zaneb | randallburt: exactly | 20:42 |
| asalkeld | wirehead_, +1 | 20:43 |
| wirehead_ | I think we ought to proceed with the understanding that there will be a re-org. | 20:43 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, -1 | 20:43 |
| asalkeld | :) | 20:43 |
| sdague | stevebaker: can you file a tempest bug that links to that, just so as we approach h2 we can make sure it gets handled? | 20:43 |
| zaneb | lol | 20:43 |
| stevebaker | sdague: ok, will do | 20:43 |
| randallburt | so, from our perspective, we're not fussed about where to put it. we'll start submitting review patches for our resources and can go from there about where folks want to put stuff | 20:44 |
| wirehead_ | I also suspect that once we've written 2-3 server providers, the pattern for how to not have to write 20 providers will be clearer. | 20:44 |
| sdake | o/ - sorry i'm alte | 20:44 |
| randallburt | well don't be alte again! ;) | 20:44 |
| kebray | I can see where cloud service provider may want to optimize resource implementations for their cloud.. and, I could see contributing those back to the community. So, in that sense, maybe they are features and not bugs… I can see both sides. but, I digress. It's just terminology at this point. The solution is the same. | 20:45 |
| shardy | hi sdake | 20:45 |
| sdake | service desk ship me my new laptop so I can stop using the delete key pls :) | 20:45 |
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| shardy | kebray: yeah I think we're agreed on resource sub-directory per provider, and hopfully avoid undue duplication via the review process | 20:46 |
| shardy | anyone got anything else they want do discuss? | 20:46 |
| sdake | aws reorg happening in h2? | 20:46 |
| zaneb | kebray: I'm trying to make a case for /contrib (badly, it appears), but I certainly wouldn't -1 a review over it | 20:47 |
| sdake | (just reading scrollback) | 20:47 |
| kebray | excellent. we'll work to get our code in the right place for review asap.. help on getting the rackspace resources written from others would be great.. but, I know they aren't committed for the H milestones. | 20:47 |
| shardy | sdake: we basically need native resources for everything, then the YAML templates become abstracted from awsisms | 20:47 |
| sdake | shardy yup I got that - I am working on nova server atm | 20:48 |
| * sdake loves rebasing | 20:48 | |
| shardy | sdake: so what was your query re h2, can you clarify pls? | 20:48 |
| therve | shardy, Do we have blueprints for all AWS resources to native? | 20:48 |
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| zaneb | therve: iirc there's one mega-blueprint | 20:48 |
| sdake | If we are reorganizing the tree, my work will lhave to be rebased which is fine, but would prefer to know if we plan to reorg the resources dir in h2 | 20:48 |
| alexheneveld | kebray: zaneb: providers for other clouds feel like they should be plugins long term, maintained by third parties not by openstack - esp if heat goes core. i've been in the adapters-keep-up game before and it's for mugs. | 20:48 |
| shardy | therve: there is an abstract-aws BP, but we may not have related BPs to create native versions of every resource yet | 20:48 |
| sdake | previously we weren't going to do that | 20:49 |
| tspatzier | sdake: what's the state of the nova server resource? Any chance to try it out. Might want to reference it from the first HOT samples I am trying to get running. | 20:49 |
| shardy | there are certainly BPs for some native resources tho | 20:49 |
| stevebaker | shardy: replacing cfntools is part of aws removal too | 20:49 |
| sdake | tspatzier not finished yet and have other tasks to attend to atm, but will get back to it in the next week | 20:49 |
| asalkeld | shardy, for some reason bp's are getting defined for smaller and smarller bits of work | 20:49 |
| shardy | stevebaker: yeah, I was thinking about that recently, we need to port cfntools to understand how to talk to the ReST API | 20:50 |
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| shardy | and/or the CFN API configurably | 20:50 |
| tspatzier | sdake: sounds good. I also have some prep work for HOT to be done first | 20:50 |
| shardy | which also removes the recurring boto pain | 20:50 |
| sdake | asalkeld that is for the rest of the downstream openstack community (like marketing) to know what changed in heat | 20:50 |
| kebray | alexheneveld I don't disagree, but it seems like enough people want us to include these at the moment. I don't have much of an opinion.. just need shardy to tell us where to put our code, and we'll push the gerrit review. | 20:50 |
| sdake | they can't reasonably be expected to look at a git changelog can they? :) | 20:50 |
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| zaneb | alexheneveld: it works for the kernel | 20:50 |
| shardy | asalkeld: Is that a problem, a BP needs to be achivevable withing a relatively short time for one person? | 20:51 |
| asalkeld | yea | 20:51 |
| wirehead_ | boto botulism. | 20:51 |
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| randallburt | botoxic | 20:51 |
| * adrian_otto gags | 20:51 | |
| alexheneveld | kebray: +1 for now -- just wouldn't want to see it collapse under its own weight | 20:51 |
| stevebaker | on that note I'm outa here | 20:51 |
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| shardy | Ok, is there anything else, or shall we finish early? | 20:52 |
| sdake | shardy so the aws reorg is landing in h2? | 20:52 |
| zaneb | +1 for finish early : | 20:52 |
| sdake | still unclear on that | 20:52 |
| alexheneveld | zaneb: good point :) | 20:52 |
| zaneb | :) | 20:52 |
| shardy | sdake: I still don't really know what you're asking? | 20:52 |
| shardy | what will land, all the native resources, or... | 20:53 |
| sdake | the moving all the resources around for environments + everything else | 20:53 |
| sdake | the directory structure | 20:53 |
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| zaneb | alexheneveld: see last week's meeting log for more discussion | 20:53 |
| shardy | sdake: I think that's not really a BP, just the first person who wants to can move stuff and deal with the resulting breakage | 20:53 |
| shardy | sdake: Is it important to you that it happens for h2? | 20:54 |
| sdake | I don't care I just want to know if h2 or h3 :) | 20:54 |
| zaneb | I think it's important to him that it doesn't so he doesn't have to rebase on it ;) | 20:54 |
| shardy | sdake: honestly I don't know - is anyone planning it imminently? | 20:54 |
| * shardy is not | 20:54 | |
| sdake | I would prefer it doesn't happen in 2h | 20:54 |
| sdake | zaneb wins :) | 20:54 |
| zaneb | sdake: I think you and SpamapS were the only ones talking about doing it | 20:55 |
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| sdake | sounds good then i'll sync with SpamapS about that | 20:55 |
| shardy | Ok, sounds good, I don't really see it as all that high-priority tbh | 20:55 |
| shardy | Ok, if nothing else, we can wrap up.. | 20:56 |
| shardy | #endmeeting | 20:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "R/O volumes (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 20:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jun 5 20:56:45 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-06-05-20.00.html | 20:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-06-05-20.00.txt | 20:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-06-05-20.00.log.html | 20:56 |
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| radix | thanks guys, later | 20:57 |
| wirehead_ | thx | 20:57 |
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| jd__ | #startmeeting ceilometer | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jun 5 21:00:22 2013 UTC. The chair is jd__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 21:00 |
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| eglynn | o/ | 21:00 |
| jd__ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/MeteringAgenda | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:00 |
| llu-laptop | o/ | 21:00 |
| gordc | o/ | 21:00 |
| mrutkows | o/ | 21:00 |
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| jd__ | #topic Last week action: dhellmann to send email to the openstack list about the support policy | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Last week action: dhellmann to send email to the openstack list about the support policy (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:02 | |
| jd__ | #link https://lists.launchpad.net/openstack/msg24076.html | 21:02 |
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| jd__ | this is done :) | 21:02 |
| jd__ | #topic Review Havana-2 milestone | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Havana-2 milestone (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:02 | |
| jd__ | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/havana-2 | 21:02 |
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| jd__ | I'm not worried yet, but I might be if some bp don't start soon | 21:03 |
| jd__ | hint hint dhellmann :] | 21:03 |
| eglynn | I've cleared the decks for the next couple weeks | 21:03 |
| * dhellmann can take a hint | 21:03 | |
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| jd__ | eglynn: ah I like that :-) | 21:03 |
| eglynn | ... nose back to the coding grindstone ... | 21:03 |
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| jd__ | dhellmann: anyhow keep me updated if you think like you won't make some of your bp for h2 | 21:05 |
| dhellmann | I'll give you a heads up | 21:05 |
| dhellmann | I'm not too worried at this point | 21:05 |
| jd__ | me neither honestly | 21:06 |
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| jd__ | the next project status meeting is in 2 weeks from now and I'll have to update the release manager of our status | 21:06 |
| jd__ | he may be worried at this point in the future, but we are not there yet :) | 21:07 |
| jd__ | #topic Open discussion | 21:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:07 | |
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| eglynn | reminder: apevec is pulling the trigger on the next stable/grizzly ceilo release tomorrow | 21:07 |
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| eglynn | here's what's backported so far: https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/2013.1.2 | 21:07 |
| eglynn | so if you've anything else you want to get in, speak now or forever hold your peace ;) | 21:07 |
| jd__ | looks great | 21:07 |
| eglynn | cool | 21:07 |
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| jd__ | I'm out of topic for tonight | 21:09 |
| jd__ | please review more code? I've too many patches waiting | 21:09 |
| jd__ | I don't think I missed -1 this time | 21:09 |
| gordc | jd__, for console_scripts. do we want to keep bin scripts like nova/quantum | 21:09 |
| llu-laptop | gordc: I've asked the same question :) | 21:09 |
| gordc | :) | 21:10 |
| jd__ | unless we have a real reason to, I'd say no | 21:10 |
| jd__ | and unless I miss something :) | 21:10 |
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| gordc | jd__. no preference myself. it just breaks devstack the way it is right now. so we'll need to patch that too | 21:11 |
| jd__ | fair enough | 21:11 |
| jd__ | but not a blocker for me :) | 21:11 |
| llu-laptop | gordc: I think it breaks devstack because we still have the bin directory. when we remove all bin/scripts, it should be ok | 21:12 |
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| jd__ | ah also | 21:12 |
| gordc | llu-laptop, oh. didn't know that. just quickly tried it this morning | 21:12 |
| jd__ | if someone as time to kill, feel free to make a first pass on the hardware agent support https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30700/ | 21:13 |
| jd__ | the path is utterly big like I saw it in my prophetic nightmare, but still… | 21:13 |
| gordc | 1766 lines changed... | 21:13 |
| llu-laptop | is the related requirements patch got in? | 21:13 |
| jd__ | llu-laptop: there will always be a bin directory because I think one of the bin comes from oslo at least | 21:14 |
| llu-laptop | jd__: ok, that means we have to patch devstack | 21:14 |
| jd__ | llu-laptop: no, dhellmann -1'ed the requirement patch for now for good reasons, but it'll go in at some point | 21:15 |
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| jd__ | this was supposed to be merged for h1, not it's targetting h2, it'd be great we have it in h2 | 21:15 |
| jd__ | we've a ton of other thing for h3 already, slipping this one isn't a good idea | 21:15 |
| * gordc will try looking at it... most likely won't understand any of it. | 21:16 | |
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| llu-laptop | i'll try too. | 21:17 |
| jd__ | thanks guys | 21:17 |
| jd__ | anything else or should I wrap up? | 21:17 |
| gordc | who's patching devstack? | 21:18 |
| gordc | i guess i'll do it. | 21:19 |
| jd__ | ok :-) | 21:20 |
| mrutkows | thanks | 21:20 |
| jd__ | see you soon guys! | 21:20 |
| jd__ | happy hacking! | 21:20 |
| jd__ | #endmeeting | 21:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "R/O volumes (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 21:20 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jun 5 21:20:16 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:20 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-06-05-21.00.html | 21:20 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-06-05-21.00.txt | 21:20 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-06-05-21.00.log.html | 21:20 |
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