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| jgriffith | #startmeeting cinder | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Mar 6 16:00:43 2013 UTC. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:00 |
| jgriffith | Hmmm... anybody here this morning? | 16:01 |
| bvibhu | Hi | 16:01 |
| jgallard | hi! | 16:01 |
| smulcahy | hi | 16:01 |
| vincent_hou | y | 16:01 |
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| jgriffith | There's some folks... morning guys | 16:01 |
| thingee | o/ | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | Pretty short agenda today | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | might be even shorter without some of the folks being around | 16:02 |
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| guitarzan | morning! | 16:02 |
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| JM1 | hi | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | heyhey | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | alright, now we're rolling, let's get started | 16:02 |
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| jgriffith | #topic RC1 status updates | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RC1 status updates (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:02 | |
| jgriffith | I'm hoping to cut next week unless folks see a problem getting their fixes in | 16:03 |
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| jgriffith | Or of course somebody finds something horrible between now and then | 16:03 |
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| jgriffith | any objections on that? | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | BTW: https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/grizzly-rc1 | 16:04 |
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| jgriffith | Take a look and if you have something new let me know, or if you have something that should be targetted and isn't let me know that as well | 16:04 |
| bswartz | hey sorry I'm late | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: no worries | 16:04 |
| winston-d | i see john's got 6 bug assigned. :) | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: :) | 16:04 |
| kmartin | jgriffith: It is too late to get the LeftHand driver fixes into RC1 | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: nope | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: I am not super strict about targetting | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: but we should probably update those bugs with RC1 tags | 16:05 |
| kmartin | ok, I 'll have hemna send bug to you today | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: do you expect to get them in this week? | 16:06 |
| kmartin | yes | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: we should be just fine then | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: that reminds me, do you want https://bugs.launchpad.net/cinder/+bug/1131322 | 16:06 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1131322 in cinder "Cinder service not logging exceptions from stevedore library" [High,Confirmed] | 16:06 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: yes, please | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: All yours :) | 16:07 |
| matelakat | jgriffith: Can we have this in rc1 as well? https://bugs.launchpad.net/cinder/+bug/1131291 | 16:07 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1131291 in cinder "XenAPINFS: Volume always uploaded as vhd/ovf" [Undecided,Fix committed] | 16:07 |
| smulcahy | jgriffith: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cinder/+bug/1136174 has been fixed aswell so not sure if you want to target that too? | 16:07 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1136174 in cinder "cinder-backup doesn't use/check metadata version during restore" [Undecided,Fix committed] | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: do you think we can get that done this week? | 16:07 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: but if it requires something in olso, it might not make it to RC1 | 16:07 |
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| jgriffith | matelakat: committed ones don't need much persuasion frm me :) | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | smulcahy: I can if you'd like it for tracking/record keeping | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | smulcahy: done | 16:08 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: i'll try my best | 16:08 |
| smulcahy | jgriffith: ta | 16:08 |
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| jgriffith | winston-d: I was afraid of that | 16:08 |
| thingee | jgriffith: is there an update from j_king on https://bugs.launchpad.net/cinder/+bug/1087817 ? | 16:08 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1087817 in cinder "Update v2 with volume_type_id switch to uuid" [Medium,In progress] | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: Let me know if I need to work with Mark to try and get it in if you can get it proposed | 16:09 |
| matelakat | jgriffith: So I don't need to take actions to get that to rc1, right (sorry, if this is a stupid q) | 16:09 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: sure | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | thingee: I've not heard back from him, I did ping him the other day on it | 16:09 |
| thingee | I can do last minute work if needed there | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | thingee: wonder if we should just reassign and fix it | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:10 |
| thingee | I'm sure he has it though | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | thingee: alright, let's give him another day or so | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | thingee: thanks! | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | matelakat: nope, I already did it | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | and just in case others are not sure how that works... | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | basicly anything that's going in to trunk right now is going in to RC1 | 16:11 |
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| matelakat | Oh, ok. | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | The targetting exercise just makes sure we know what we have deemed as *required* for rc1 | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | Technically one could argue that everything that goes in should be targetted at this point | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | but Cinder is a bit unique with it's heavy driver model :) | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | Any folks having the chance to do some good testing lately? | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | I'd like to see as many of us as possible start switching context to testing and documentation over the next few days if possible | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | and grenade testing as well (Folsom to Grizzly upgrade testing) | 16:14 |
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| jgriffith | Well I see that was a popular topic :) | 16:14 |
| matelakat | btw, I asked Anne About it, but is this the right place for the driver docs? #link http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/openstack-compute/admin/content/ch_volumes.html | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | matelakat: it is for now, I have a todo item to create a "block storage" section and move all of that out of compute admin | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | #action jgriffith get the doc formatting stuff figured out with Anne and done | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | any other big questions/concerns for RC1? | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | #topic core team status | 16:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "core team status (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:16 | |
| jgriffith | So we've talked about this before but always wait for the *next* mile marker | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | I'd like to propose that we clean out the core list of cinder | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | What I mean here is the folks that were set up in Folsom but never really participated | 16:17 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: is this "core list" published somewhere? | 16:18 |
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| jgriffith | I'd like to trim that list and make some new nominations this week if possible | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: yes of course https://launchpad.net/~cinder-core | 16:19 |
| bswartz | thanks | 16:19 |
| annegentle | what do you all think about starting a storage admin manual? | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | annegentle: :) | 16:19 |
| annegentle | also I would like eyes on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/23625/ | 16:20 |
| DuncanT | Do we have a list of contributers and reviewers for the last few months? Seems like a good place to start for list trimming... | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | annegentle: That's what I was getting at earlier | 16:20 |
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| annegentle | sorry I am late and the topic changed :) | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | annegentle: no worries | 16:20 |
| thingee | annegentle: I'll check it out :) | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | I'll have a look at the review you pointed out as well | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | annegentle: and I'd definitely like to have a block-storage admin guide | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | move the cinder stuff out of the compute admin doc | 16:21 |
| annegentle | jgriffith: yeah I think that's the way to go | 16:21 |
| annegentle | jgriffith: anyone in mind to do the refactor? | 16:21 |
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| jgriffith | annegentle: unless somebody else steps up proabably me | 16:21 |
| annegentle | jgriffith: there may be others interested I can recruit for you if you want :) | 16:22 |
| thingee | annegentle, jgriffith: I did it for api, why not? :) | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | I'd like this to be ASAP | 16:22 |
| annegentle | thingee: woo! :) | 16:22 |
| annegentle | thingee: yeah you have your plate full getting the API docs in shipshape | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | thingee: You're the MAN!!! | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | So let's do this | 16:22 |
| thingee | those are at least in a review phase. I still have more I want to do with them, but in the mean time can focus on admin | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | I'd like to have this refactor by next week at latest | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | If anybody has some cycles and gets to it before I'll have a chance (which will be mid next week) | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | Let folks know | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | We'll open a docs bug for it and target it so folks will know if it's picked up active etc | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | annegentle: thingee sound good? | 16:24 |
| annegentle | jgriffith: sounds jus tright | 16:24 |
| annegentle | just right even | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | coolness | 16:24 |
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| thingee | sounds good | 16:24 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: is there any officially organized group of "cinder team members" who are not not in the core team but more involved than your average Joe on the street? | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | thingee: if you've got the band-width that's awesome by me :) | 16:24 |
| thingee | I don't have anything planned atm, so I'm fine with it | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: nope | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: DuncanT to that point searches in gerrit are the answer | 16:24 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: i'll see if i can provide you some review numbers tomorrow | 16:25 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: I'll try to produce some stats if you want... | 16:25 |
| DuncanT | (or winston-d can beat me to it... I'm easy ;-) ) | 16:25 |
| winston-d | DuncanT: :) | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: oh, cool I was going to be less formal and do it ad-hoc | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: however the stats would be good for *new* core nominees | 16:26 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: is there are difference between the "cinder core" team and the set of people who are "core approvers" (can +2 stuff)? | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: nope, they're one in the same | 16:26 |
| bswartz | okay | 16:26 |
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| jgriffith | anybody have anything else on core team, or docs? | 16:27 |
| kmartin | jgriffith: Regarding docs, will they take changes all the way up to the end of the release or are the docs connected to the RC releases as well | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: docs we have more flexibility there | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | but we've procrastinated before and we always seem to run out of time | 16:28 |
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| annegentle | kmartin: right. We take a look at the bugs and figure out if the docs are releasable | 16:28 |
| kmartin | ok we have doc person that wants to be a OpenStack contributor, so he is working though that process | 16:28 |
| annegentle | kmartin: it's that balancing act between "will this answer questions or cause more questions" | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: NICE! | 16:28 |
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| jgriffith | alright, folks think about if you know of somebody that you think should be core, or if you want to nominate somebody (even yourself) and let me know | 16:29 |
| kmartin | goal is to get the changes in the end on next week | 16:29 |
| bswartz | regarding the core team -- I find the idea of a 2-tier core team structure appealing | 16:30 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: I'm not really interested in changing the OpenStack management/organization structure but I'm listening... | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: what are you proposing? | 16:31 |
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| bswartz | well I sympathize with the desire to keep the team small, and weed out non-participators, but I think it's good to have a wider group of people who are incentivised to be online answering questions and participating in code reviews, etc | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: Actually that's what *core* is supposed to be | 16:31 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: our team is rather small because our consistent participation until the past couple of months has been relatively minimal | 16:32 |
| bswartz | I guess I worry that people who don't make the cut for the "core team" won't feel any incentive to contribute | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: and everyone so here's my metric... | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | What I've been looking at the past week is this: | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | 1. People that have contributed code to the core cinder project this cycle | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | 2. People that have reviewed code | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | 3. People that participate in IRC (including this meeting) | 16:33 |
| bswartz | maybe your definition of core team includes my notion of both tiers or participation | 16:34 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: perhaps | 16:35 |
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| jgriffith | Also bear in mind core definition is an OpenStack wide policy | 16:35 |
| bswartz | I just wanted to throw it out there -- I haven't though this through fully | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Approved/CoreDevProcess | 16:35 |
| bswartz | thought* | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: believe me, I'm all for having more core team members! | 16:36 |
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| jgriffith | and I plan to nominate at least 3 folks later today | 16:36 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: and if you'd like to step up and take on the responsibilities let me know | 16:36 |
| dachary | as an occasional contributor to various free software, I would be very motivated to be on a separate list. I understand the separation between "core" and "contributor" | 16:36 |
| dachary | my 2ct ;-) | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | dachary: I'm confused, we already have this | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | dachary: bswartz So we have contributors | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | contributors can review, provide input, do anything they want | 16:37 |
| dachary | jgriffith: yes, I was echoing on the "no motivation if not in the core" ;-) | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | core just means you're especially active and responsible for +2/A authority | 16:37 |
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| jgriffith | dachary: Ahh... ok, :) | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | thanks | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | My thought is if you're not motivated when you're not core, you won't be much of a core contributor anyway | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | but I digress | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: If you have some structuring ideas we can definitely talk through them and see if there's a better system | 16:39 |
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| jgriffith | anything else regarding core? | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | #topic summit session | 16:40 |
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| thingee | http://summit.openstack.org | 16:40 |
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| winston-d | jgriffith: when is deadline for submitting session for summit? | 16:40 |
| dachary | #link http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/38 | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: I actually don't have an answer on that for you | 16:41 |
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| jgriffith | We haven't even begun talking about track scheduling etc yet | 16:41 |
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| winston-d | jgriffith: k. i'll submit my ideas ASAP anyway | 16:41 |
| dachary | I've discussed this tentative session on the ceph mailing list and there is an interest. I feel it's better associated with cinder but I'm not 100% sure. Roadmap for Ceph integration with OpenStack http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/38 | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: good idea :) | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | If nothing else submit things as place holders | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | dachary: yeah, I've been following that | 16:42 |
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| dachary | jgriffith: what's your advice ? | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | dachary: I have no good advice at this point :) | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | dachary: So my take was/is | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | if there's room in Cinder tracks I don't mind it, however what you have planned seems much more nova related IMO | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | dachary: bottom line, if it needs a place to land and you're in a jam we can work it out in Cinder | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | but it almost seems you need your *own* independent track | 16:44 |
| thingee | jgriffith: +1 | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | dachary: or if we do another *general all/around* bucket again that would be ideal | 16:45 |
| dachary | that makes sense, I'll move it to nova then. | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | dachary: Your call, if you get in a bind scheduling wise let me know and we'll work something out | 16:45 |
| dachary | jgriffith: thanks :-) | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | dachary: I also think we should ask about cross-project tracks | 16:45 |
| dachary | I'll discuss this with ttx, good idea | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | cool | 16:46 |
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| jgriffith | we've had that sort of thing in the past IIRC | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | Ok... anything else on sessions? | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: ? | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | I'm assuming we're going to need to hash something out for real this time on File Shares | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: But that might be better as it's own type of session as well (non-cinder track) | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | well if nobody else has anything.... | 16:48 |
| bswartz | We're planning to address the feedback we've gotten so far on the NAS stuff so it's ready when Havana opens up | 16:48 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: Would you rather have separate proposals for small things then combine them later? | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: small and combine later please | 16:49 |
| thingee | dachary: IMO, ceph has little to do with cinder's core. Unless your proposed changes are actually requesting big changes. | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: it tends to make things easier to schedule | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | thingee: +1 | 16:49 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: Understood | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: but if you have a well organized grouping by all means, it's up to you | 16:49 |
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| bswartz | I worry a little that another conference session might feel like a rerun given that the features have not changed significantly, just the impelmentation | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: It's just easier for me to see overlap and tie ins if they're seperated | 16:50 |
| dachary | thingee: yes, you are correct | 16:50 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: agreed, I have some suggestions for how to do this differently this time | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: one is already taken care of (don't have a *surprise* proposal in the session) | 16:50 |
| DuncanT | bswartz: I think some of the concerns, particularly about buy-in from other users, might benefit from a session if we can get some of them there | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | if there had been some communication and the code was shared before the session I think it would have been moe productive | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | s/moe/more/ | 16:51 |
| bswartz | jgriffith, DuncanT: I agree | 16:51 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT: bswartz Recall in SanFran there was actually a storage panel that discussed this with a broader audience | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | The resounding response was *yes, we want shared filesystem support* | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | *no, it shouldn't be in Cinder* | 16:52 |
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| jgriffith | It's actually on video somewhere | 16:52 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: I'm not sure which session you're referring to | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: It was a panel discussion... Rob, SF, Mirantis, Nexenta | 16:53 |
| bswartz | On the first day? I think I was there | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: I think it was the last day, but not sure | 16:53 |
| bswartz | I have a different memory of events -- but I might be remembering a different session | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | I'll see if I can't find the link | 16:53 |
| bswartz | please do | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | Yes you and Rob have pointed out that my memory is apparantly *wrong* | 16:54 |
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| bswartz | I think the point of contention is about how resounding the response was | 16:54 |
| bswartz | clearly some people think NAS doesn't belong in cinder | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: sure... | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | anyway, we'll sort it this time around | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | anybody have anything else? | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | I'll find the link and hit you up in the channel with it | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | Ok... thanks everyone | 16:56 |
| jgallard | The work regarding multi backend / tempest integration test is in progress. | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | #end meeting | 16:56 |
| dachary | thanks :-) | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | #endmeeting | 16:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 16:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Mar 6 16:56:31 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:56 |
| jgallard | I hope I will propose something for feedback asap | 16:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-03-06-16.00.html | 16:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-03-06-16.00.txt | 16:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-03-06-16.00.log.html | 16:56 |
| jgallard | thanks | 16:56 |
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| guitarzan | phew, one minute left | 16:56 |
| bswartz | ended on time! | 16:56 |
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| winston-d | :) | 16:56 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #startmeeting XenAPI | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Mar 6 17:01:12 2013 UTC. The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi' | 17:01 |
| BobBall | Yay :) | 17:01 |
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| johnthetubaguy | hi everyone | 17:01 |
| BobBall | Morning John | 17:02 |
| BobBall | or afternoon | 17:02 |
| BobBall | depending on where everyone is | 17:02 |
| matelakat | hi | 17:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic actions from last meeting | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 17:02 | |
| johnthetubaguy | So I had a few actions | 17:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #action johnthetubaguy needs to do the actions from last week | 17:03 |
| BobBall | haha | 17:03 |
| BobBall | nice action | 17:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | been stuck with XCP on CentOS, so not really started on the CentOS install docs | 17:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | hey ho | 17:03 |
| matelakat | I guess it was a busy week. | 17:03 |
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| * johnthetubaguy bangs head against wall | 17:03 | |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways... | 17:03 |
| BobBall | What's the progress on XCP on CentOS? | 17:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic blueprints | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 17:04 | |
| johnthetubaguy | we got a meeting on that Tueday 17.00 UTC in #centos-devel | 17:04 |
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| johnthetubaguy | summary: broken with odd permissions errors, no one really can tell why | 17:04 |
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| BobBall | sounds fun | 17:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | joyus | 17:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | so… blueprints? | 17:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | just a call to look at the etherpad for the summit and add things | 17:05 |
| BobBall | oh | 17:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | we added the odd bit last time | 17:05 |
| BobBall | I forgot to add stuff | 17:05 |
| BobBall | lemme have a quick look | 17:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/HavanaXenAPIRoadmap | 17:06 |
| BobBall | yeah | 17:06 |
| BobBall | just got it from the web page | 17:06 |
| BobBall | my bad, sorry | 17:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | np | 17:06 |
| BobBall | okay | 17:06 |
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| BobBall | there is one key thing that isn't there | 17:06 |
| BobBall | or if it is then I can't see... | 17:06 |
| BobBall | is quantum support for XS | 17:07 |
| BobBall | didn't make grizzly-3 | 17:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | its a nova session though | 17:07 |
| BobBall | so it should definitely be on the roadmap even if we don't need a new blueprint | 17:07 |
| BobBall | ahhhhh | 17:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | it was covered in the last summit | 17:07 |
| BobBall | didn't spot that from etherpad! | 17:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | implementation agreed, code pushed for review | 17:07 |
| BobBall | *nod* | 17:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | but only one quatum core ever reviewed | 17:07 |
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| johnthetubaguy | just to document / share | 17:08 |
| BobBall | Tis a shame it didn't make the grizzly cut! | 17:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | indeed, we half planned a backport to folsom | 17:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | but no one will review it, but hopefully that will change now | 17:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | so anything else? | 17:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | blueprint wise | 17:09 |
| BobBall | not from my end | 17:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic docs | 17:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "docs (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 17:10 | |
| johnthetubaguy | any news? | 17:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | I didn't do my things | 17:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | there was a note on the mailing list about live-migraiton docs | 17:10 |
| BobBall | but I guess there will be an AOB for adding new features to the roadmap? | 17:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | they look fairly poor, might need to expand them | 17:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | sure, we can do | 17:10 |
| BobBall | we've got a plan to look at some docs - Mate has an action this week to go through and look at what's there | 17:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 17:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | #action matelakat to look at state of XenAPI docs and report back next week | 17:11 |
| BobBall | there we go :D | 17:11 |
| BobBall | I was going to say can you add an #action | 17:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | catch me on IRC if there are questions | 17:11 |
| matelakat | #link https://github.com/citrix-openstack/bugstat/blob/master/bugreport/main_report.md#openstack-manuals----20 | 17:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 17:12 |
| matelakat | A lot to do... | 17:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | some of those don't affect XenAPI | 17:13 |
| matelakat | it's just a dumb search | 17:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | sure, no worries | 17:13 |
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| matelakat | I will look at them, and put em to categories. | 17:13 |
| BobBall | e.g. https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1095095 | 17:13 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1095095 in openstack-manuals "Configuring for resize with KVM" [Medium,Confirmed] | 17:13 |
| BobBall | just says KVM docs aren't as good as XenServer for resize | 17:13 |
| matelakat | So it includes the string "XenServer" | 17:14 |
| BobBall | indeed | 17:14 |
| BobBall | but only in the context of "XenServer doesn't have this bug" :) | 17:14 |
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| johnthetubaguy | its probably worth manually added xenserver tags, and having a tag only search | 17:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, lets move on | 17:15 |
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| johnthetubaguy | any more for any more? | 17:15 |
| BobBall | I'd like to keep the dumb search, but use the tagged search to say "this has been triaged by someone who knows it's a XS bug" | 17:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 | 17:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | that is what I meant | 17:16 |
| BobBall | ah right | 17:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic QA and Bugs | 17:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "QA and Bugs (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 17:16 | |
| johnthetubaguy | anything major worrying people? | 17:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | matelakat have you got the link to your bug finder? | 17:17 |
| BobBall | I guess one thing that surprised me is that devstack multihost doesn't seem to be tested by anyone else | 17:17 |
| matelakat | #link https://github.com/citrix-openstack/bugstat | 17:17 |
| guitarzan | we'd like to get some eyes on this: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/23662/ | 17:18 |
| BobBall | *has a butchers* | 17:18 |
| BobBall | That one's an interesting issue! | 17:20 |
| guitarzan | and a little painful :) | 17:20 |
| guitarzan | I'm going to try it out | 17:21 |
| BobBall | So has the whole SR gone away? | 17:21 |
| guitarzan | hopefully with the patch, yes | 17:21 |
| BobBall | ahhh - this an iSCSI SR? | 17:21 |
| guitarzan | yes | 17:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | I guess the point is, if your iSCSI target dies, then VM will not start | 17:21 |
| guitarzan | johnthetubaguy: exactly | 17:22 |
| BobBall | yup - not surprising. | 17:22 |
| BobBall | okay | 17:22 |
| BobBall | got it | 17:22 |
| BobBall | I was getting a little confused | 17:22 |
| guitarzan | I'm not sure what happens in the other HVs case | 17:22 |
| guitarzan | but I also don't have to worry about that case | 17:22 |
| BobBall | *grin* | 17:23 |
| BobBall | I'll have to have a think about this one | 17:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, sounds like an excessive timeout, would be nice to be able to specify that in the check call | 17:23 |
| guitarzan | s1rp and I talked about it quite a bit, and this seems to be the best we could come up with on short notice | 17:24 |
| guitarzan | mad props to him for making it work | 17:24 |
| BobBall | you mean the XAPI timeout? | 17:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | erm, timeout in the xapi operation | 17:24 |
| BobBall | I guess this is currently a critical issue for you guys? | 17:25 |
| guitarzan | well, it's an ugly one | 17:25 |
| guitarzan | requires ops to go in and nuke the SR | 17:25 |
| guitarzan | it doesn't happen often | 17:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | maybe some kind of health check would be better, with tunable timeout | 17:25 |
| guitarzan | it should only happen if something happens to the network or we lose a storage node | 17:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | I like scan SR because it should be quick in the working cases | 17:26 |
| BobBall | so XS doesn't timeout the SR? | 17:26 |
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| johnthetubaguy | oh, I see you only call that in error cases | 17:26 |
| guitarzan | johnthetubaguy: yeah, we don't do anything unless it doesn't boot | 17:26 |
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| johnthetubaguy | makes sense | 17:27 |
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| BobBall | how long ago had the SR gone away? | 17:27 |
| BobBall | or had it only just gone? | 17:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | shame we can't have a non destructive error case again, do we need to tell cinder we detached the volume? | 17:27 |
| guitarzan | the sr is still there, it just can't make the iscsi connection | 17:27 |
| guitarzan | johnthetubaguy: compute manager does that | 17:28 |
| BobBall | Also, could you just post the XS error log to the bug so that we've got a traceback | 17:28 |
| guitarzan | the fun part was propagating the bad devices back up to compute | 17:28 |
| BobBall | *grin* that does look fun | 17:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, got ya, didn't get there yet | 17:28 |
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| guitarzan | BobBall: I'll try to remember to paste a stack | 17:29 |
| BobBall | this _handle_bad_volumes_detached case? | 17:29 |
| guitarzan | well, I'll grab the xen log from the failed boot | 17:29 |
| BobBall | that's perfect | 17:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | pull out the network cable between your iscsi target an hypervisor, it should repo OK | 17:30 |
| * BobBall is impressed with this one | 17:30 | |
| BobBall | I like that bug | 17:30 |
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| guitarzan | glad you like it | 17:30 |
| BobBall | is there a Bug Of The Month award? | 17:30 |
| guitarzan | we were hoping XS would boot without all the volumes, but alas | 17:31 |
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| BobBall | yup | 17:31 |
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| BobBall | well we might also be able to patch ISCSISR.py to do something | 17:31 |
| BobBall | not sure | 17:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | good old xapi trying to protect us from doing bad things again | 17:31 |
| BobBall | depends how the SR is failing | 17:31 |
| BobBall | unlikely to be XAPI | 17:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | oh, OK | 17:31 |
| BobBall | is it the vm start that fails? I'm almost surprised the shutdown works ok if the SR is timing out | 17:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | it probably got shutdown before that right? | 17:32 |
| guitarzan | I'm not sure | 17:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | or this is the first start? | 17:32 |
| guitarzan | it's a reboot, so it wasn't really shut down | 17:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah | 17:32 |
| * johnthetubaguy remembers bug report…drrr | 17:33 | |
| BobBall | ok well might I suggest that John, you and I take an action to look at it? | 17:33 |
| BobBall | I see you've already added yourself! | 17:33 |
| BobBall | hah :) | 17:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | make sure the SR is behaving correctly, for the "graceful" fix | 17:33 |
| BobBall | guitarzan, do you happen to know if this is a soft or hard reboot? | 17:34 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #action johnthetubaguy guitarzan to look into broken SR issues https://review.openstack.org/#/c/23662 | 17:34 |
| guitarzan | BobBall: not sure | 17:35 |
| guitarzan | I'll try both | 17:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | maybe hard because soft failed... | 17:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 17:35 |
| BobBall | probably both tbh | 17:35 |
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| guitarzan | that's my guess | 17:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 17:35 |
| BobBall | *not sure if XAPI handles the SRs differently for the two cases* | 17:36 |
| BobBall | Anyway - let's move on :) | 17:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | indeed | 17:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | any more bugs? | 17:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | me guessing that is a no... | 17:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Open Discussion | 17:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 17:36 | |
| johnthetubaguy | so, bobball has a few things? | 17:37 |
| s1rp | ohai guys... | 17:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | hey | 17:37 |
| guitarzan | we were just talking about you | 17:37 |
| s1rp | yeah the clean_reboot operation hangs for 120 secs... | 17:37 |
| s1rp | luckily a subsequent SR.scan seems to be quick-ish | 17:37 |
| BobBall | ahhhhh | 17:37 |
| s1rp | only the first-one after unplugging seems to be slow | 17:37 |
| s1rp | it's like it stores some data somewhere marking it as failed (?) | 17:38 |
| guitarzan | BobBall: I haven't tried that iscsi patch you sent me yet | 17:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | that figures, cool | 17:38 |
| BobBall | s1rp, I thought it was the SR scan that waited 120 seconds | 17:38 |
| BobBall | failing fast in clean_reboot is likely to be a XAPI thing waiting for the SR to respond to it's attach request | 17:39 |
| s1rp | that too... lemme clarify | 17:39 |
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| BobBall | sorry john - we're derailing the agenda :D | 17:39 |
| s1rp | so if you do an sr-scan w/o a reboot, then that call will take 120 secs (this is what i was doing on the comand line to troubleshoot this) | 17:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | its OK, its important | 17:40 |
| s1rp | but, and i'm not 100% sure on this, but if you do a clean_reboot, that will cause an underlying timeout, but i *think* the next SR.scan will actually fail-fast | 17:40 |
| BobBall | ah - but failed reboot followed by sr-scan to find the failing device is fast | 17:40 |
| s1rp | BobBall: yeah, need to triple check that case, but i believe so | 17:40 |
| BobBall | unfortunately that might mean the timeout is in iscsiadm ? | 17:40 |
| BobBall | ... or fortunately :) | 17:40 |
| BobBall | that might be easy to fix | 17:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | right, hack the RD | 17:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | lol SR | 17:40 |
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| BobBall | or just an other-config | 17:41 |
| BobBall | I think we can pass some iscsiadm flags through | 17:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | even better | 17:41 |
| BobBall | not 100% on that though. Maybe only 73% sure. | 17:41 |
| BobBall | btw john, my stuff on libvirt can wait until next week if we have other things to get through :) | 17:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: thanks | 17:42 |
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| BobBall | s1rp, Was saying to guitarzan that we'd like some of the XS logs in the bug report just for tracability if that's ok | 17:43 |
| s1rp | BobBall: cool, we can get those over to you; luckily this is very easy to replicate! | 17:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | sounds good, any more on that one? | 17:44 |
| BobBall | no :) Let's leave that one for now | 17:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | can always take it to the ML | 17:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool, bobball summit stuff you wanted to mention? | 17:45 |
| BobBall | Uhhhh maybe? I don't remember which summit stuff you're referring to? | 17:46 |
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| johnthetubaguy | ok, missunderstood | 17:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | put stuff on the etherpad to help discuss at the summit | 17:47 |
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| BobBall | Sorry - I could have been clearer! :) | 17:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | assuming that session goes ahead, if there is loads, might ask for extra sessions | 17:47 |
| BobBall | Summit stuff then - looking forward to it. matelakat and I have booked our flights so we'll see you there | 17:48 |
| johnthetubaguy | sounds like a Xen on libvirt vs XenAPI disucssion might be good, as long as it says sensible and not too religious | 17:48 |
| johnthetubaguy | I was thinking in the summit | 17:48 |
| johnthetubaguy | but bob you wanted to bring that up this weel? | 17:48 |
| johnthetubaguy | week? | 17:49 |
| BobBall | Well what I'd like to understand is what the primary value that the XenAPI integration is using from XAPI that can't be provided by libvirt | 17:49 |
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| BobBall | not sure if we've got enough time to explore that question properly today | 17:50 |
| BobBall | which is fine :) | 17:50 |
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| s1rp | we do alot of weird stuff w/ dom0 plugins, but that probably could be handled with proper hooks in the libvirt layer | 17:50 |
| johnthetubaguy | s1rp: we can't use both today, we would freak out xapi | 17:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | but yes, I get your point | 17:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think the question is, should we evolve XAPI/XCP or should we evlove libvirt | 17:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | and how much effort is each approach, at this point | 17:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | I guess what is missing between libvirt+Xen vs xapi+Xen in openstack today | 17:52 |
| BobBall | Well the question is more that there are lots of things that are getting first-dibs in libvirt and whether a libvirt-on-xen/xapi hybrid approach would bring us much and what level of pain it would be for XAPI to tolerate such a hybrid approach | 17:53 |
| johnthetubaguy | I get the idea that gap could be quite small, but I never got libvirt+Xen working that well, but didn't try very hard | 17:53 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm, maybe | 17:53 |
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| johnthetubaguy | but that is like how many years out? | 17:54 |
| BobBall | It's not this week, that's true | 17:54 |
| johnthetubaguy | well, maybe that fits into evolving XAPI actually... | 17:54 |
| johnthetubaguy | I wondered about using xenopsd instead | 17:54 |
| johnthetubaguy | thats the thing under xapi | 17:55 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, we can take this offline | 17:56 |
| johnthetubaguy | anything else? | 17:56 |
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| johnthetubaguy | cool | 17:57 |
| johnthetubaguy | #endmeeting | 17:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 17:57 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Mar 6 17:57:29 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:57 |
| johnthetubaguy | thanks all | 17:57 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-03-06-17.01.html | 17:57 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-03-06-17.01.txt | 17:57 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-03-06-17.01.log.html | 17:57 |
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| notmyname | swift meeting time | 19:00 |
| swifterdarrell | o/ | 19:00 |
| torgomatic | ahoy | 19:00 |
| notmyname | #startmeeting swift | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Mar 6 19:00:54 2013 UTC. The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'swift' | 19:00 |
| notmyname | the openstack grizzly release is coming up soon, so we'll spend some time on that today | 19:01 |
| notmyname | but first, some general announcements | 19:01 |
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| notmyname | #info reminder that the CFP for talks at the summit is open at summit.openstack.org | 19:02 |
| notmyname | I'm curious as to how many swift devs will be coming from RAX. any idea right now? | 19:03 |
| notmyname | dfg: have you heard anything? | 19:03 |
| dfg | ya | 19:03 |
| dfg | remember anything- is the question :) | 19:04 |
| notmyname | heh | 19:04 |
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| davidh_ | Do we have a deadline for submitting items for discussion? Can it wait till end of next week? | 19:04 |
| notmyname | ok. well, if you all aren't there, I'll go gripe at your managers (who will be there) ;-) | 19:04 |
| dfg | notmyname: chuck, redbo, maybe glange | 19:04 |
| notmyname | davidh_: I don't remember the deadline off the top of my head. I think you've still got time. I'll need to check with ttx | 19:05 |
| notmyname | dfg: k, thansk | 19:05 |
| davidh_ | As this is my first sumit - these are items for technical discussions right? | 19:06 |
| notmyname | as we get closer to the next swift release, please let me know if your email needs to change in the AUTHORS or .mailmap file. I'll be updating that soon. let me know via email, IRC, or with patches | 19:06 |
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| notmyname | davidh_: yes. these are intended to be more like facilitated discussions rather than official presentations | 19:06 |
| davidh_ | notmyname: great | 19:06 |
| notmyname | davidh_: presenting material is ok, but you should have a good chunk of time devoted to discussion | 19:07 |
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| davidh_ | np | 19:07 |
| clayg | hi | 19:07 |
| notmyname | also, if you haven't re-signed the oepnstack CLA, please do so ASAP. it's all done through gerrit now, and it should be much simpler (yay!) | 19:07 |
| dfg | notmyname: are ther instructions somewhere? | 19:08 |
| chmouel | there is a faq on the list that got posted | 19:08 |
| chmouel | i can forward it to you if you like | 19:08 |
| chmouel | done | 19:08 |
| notmyname | chmouel: thanks (or paste a link here) | 19:08 |
| dfg | chmouel: that would be nice- i delete a lot of openstack stuff :) | 19:08 |
| chmouel | yeah i figured ;) | 19:09 |
| notmyname | everyone needs to sign a CLA, even if you are also covered by a corporate one | 19:09 |
| clayg | dfg: but you come to the meetings! Should be easy to keep up with the important stuff... | 19:09 |
| notmyname | last announcement: pycon starts next week (3/15) in Santa Clara. on monday 3/18 there is a swift sprint focused on building things for the swift API (ie apps). if you are going to pycon, try to stay around for the sprint too. we have fabulous prizes | 19:10 |
| dfg | clayg: thats why go to the meetings. hi back btw | 19:10 |
| notmyname | any questions so far? next topic is the swift 1.8 release | 19:11 |
| chmouel | #link Gerrir CLA faq http://pastie.org/private/hkpk4lxekjlnhxs3w53dww | 19:11 |
| notmyname | chmouel: thanks | 19:12 |
| dfg | chmouel: thx | 19:12 |
| notmyname | moving on to the upcoming release | 19:12 |
| notmyname | #topic swift 1.8.0 for grizzly | 19:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "swift 1.8.0 for grizzly (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:12 | |
| notmyname | the official openstack grizzly release is april 4 | 19:12 |
| notmyname | which pretty much gives us the rest of this month to finalize and QA our release | 19:13 |
| notmyname | dfg: (since you're the only racker in here) can you confirm that y'all's QA will not be able to do a sign off by mid next week? | 19:13 |
| dfg | notmyname: thats what i hear- they're being stretched pretty thin | 19:14 |
| notmyname | ok | 19:14 |
| dfg | plus there's a lot of new stuff | 19:15 |
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| notmyname | so that means we will cut our 1.8.0~rc1 next wednesday (the 13th). QA (from all of us, including RAX) will have the rest of the month to validate it. when/if things are found, patches will be backported and ~rcX+1 releases will be made | 19:15 |
| notmyname | yes | 19:16 |
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| notmyname | the sooner we have a QA signoff, the sooner we don't have to worry about maintaining the separate milestone-proposed branch | 19:16 |
| chmouel | when is the deadline for features to get merged? | 19:16 |
| dfg | notmyname: if you hear a sneeze in the background in a few minutes- it was chuck | 19:16 |
| dfg | (sorry) | 19:17 |
| creiht | lol | 19:17 |
| notmyname | chmouel: I'll cut the release with ttx next wednesday | 19:17 |
| chmouel | notmyname: ok thanks. | 19:17 |
| notmyname | chqyou have the advantage of being many time zones ahead of me :-) | 19:17 |
| notmyname | chmouel: ^ | 19:17 |
| notmyname | dfg: :-) | 19:17 |
| chmouel | heh | 19:17 |
| notmyname | there are 3 patches that I would like to see merged by the release (of course if a patch is proposed, its author wants it merged..) | 19:18 |
| notmyname | first, davidh_ wants https://review.openstack.org/#/c/23585/ reviewed and included if possible | 19:18 |
| clayg | idk, sometimes I think redbo submits stuff that he doesn't acctually care if it gets merged... | 19:19 |
| chmouel | it would be nice for us if we can get the quota account patch get merged as well https://review.openstack.org/#/c/23434/ | 19:19 |
| creiht | clayg: hah | 19:19 |
| notmyname | second, there is the separate replication network patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/19618/ that needs reviewed. I'd liek to see it merged, if possible | 19:19 |
| notmyname | chmouel: thanks. good to know | 19:19 |
| notmyname | and torgomatic has a patch that he'll submit (today?) that includes the region tier | 19:19 |
| notmyname | if you're wondering what patches to review first, please take a look at these 4 | 19:20 |
| torgomatic | I'll submit it as soon as its dependency clears Jenkins | 19:20 |
| torgomatic | So between 10 and 10000 minutes from now ;) | 19:20 |
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| notmyname | don't forget about python-swiftclient patches. closer to the grizzly date I'll cut a new release there too | 19:21 |
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| tongli | @torgomatic, sam, this one https://review.openstack.org/#/c/22569/ | 19:21 |
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| tongli | you asked for it to be fixed. please review it. it is about the swift client busy-waiting fix. | 19:22 |
| notmyname | any questions about the swift 1.8.0 release or the schedule until 4/4? | 19:22 |
| dfg | notmyname: btw- i'm just about done with static large update support for python-swiftclient | 19:22 |
| notmyname | dfg: cool | 19:22 |
| notmyname | dfg: I got to talk about that yesterday to someone who was visiting our office. he likes it :-) | 19:22 |
| dfg | notmyname: i'll try to get in today so it can go out with the release i guess | 19:22 |
| torgomatic | tongli: ok, I'll look at it soon | 19:22 |
| dfg | notmyname: cool. | 19:23 |
| tongli | it will be nice to include that as well in the relase. | 19:23 |
| notmyname | dfg: no rush. the client release won't happen for another few weeks | 19:23 |
| dfg | ok | 19:23 |
| torgomatic | Although the client follows its own release cycle, so it doesn't have this hard deadline | 19:23 |
| notmyname | if no questions about the 1.8.0 release, let's move on to a specific patch that needs some discussion | 19:23 |
| chmouel | yep client is easy :) | 19:23 |
| tongli | @notmyname, john, are you saying that swift and swift client releases are on different schedule? | 19:23 |
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| chmouel | tongli: everything openstack works like that | 19:24 |
| notmyname | tongli: yes. they have a their own separate cadence (but in the case of the semi-annual openstack releases, it's nice to have them close) | 19:24 |
| tongli | ok | 19:24 |
| notmyname | #topic endpoints patch | 19:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "endpoints patch (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:24 | |
| swifterdarrell | So I asked for this to be brought up... | 19:25 |
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| notmyname | a patch has been proposed that adds the funtionality to get the storage nodes for an object: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/21015/ | 19:25 |
| swifterdarrell | I'm happy with including it, but thought it was worth discussing one more time the criteria for inclusion in "core swift" for middleware | 19:25 |
| notmyname | the question came up: "if this is included, why not swift3?" | 19:25 |
| chmouel | swift3 is basically a screenscraping of an api | 19:26 |
| davidh_ | This patch allows a client to know on which nodes his data is right? | 19:26 |
| chmouel | it's not really maintainable compared to the endpoint listing IMO | 19:26 |
| notmyname | I've not heard anything say that this endpoints patch is bad functionality, but I think the question is more about if it should be in core (right swifterdarrell?) | 19:26 |
| torgomatic | This is a reasonable extension to the swift API, while swift3 implements a different API with the same functionality | 19:26 |
| torgomatic | That's why, IMHO | 19:26 |
| creiht | davidh_: this is needed for hadoop functionality to run on top of swift | 19:27 |
| swifterdarrell | notmyname: correct, and I'm not even trying to argue that it shouldn't be in core (I did +2 it at one point, after all) | 19:27 |
| davidh_ | This patch is problematic - as it exposes internal info out | 19:27 |
| creiht | notmyname: yeah I don't see why to not include it | 19:27 |
| notmyname | I agree, re swift3: the S3 api is a separate (closed) api, and we've rejected other things like that too (*wink* tongli) | 19:27 |
| creiht | davidh_: it is optional | 19:27 |
| davidh_ | There should be a way for haddop to get the info - but there shouldnt be a way for a regular client to get that info | 19:27 |
| tongli | @notmyname, that is right john, | 19:28 |
| torgomatic | Also it is sufficiently generic that any app that bypasses the proxy can use it; its not hadoop specific | 19:28 |
| clayg | creiht: it's only "optional" until clients start depending on it | 19:28 |
| davidh_ | creiht: than its less of an issure | 19:28 |
| cschwede | maybe limit the info to configurable client ips? | 19:28 |
| creiht | clayg: how would a client depend on it? | 19:28 |
| davidh_ | Default should be not to offer this service | 19:28 |
| clayg | creiht: a map reduce client? | 19:28 |
| caitlin-nexenta | How could a client *ever* depend on it. The set of servers that an object is stored upon is subject to change without notice. | 19:29 |
| notmyname | caitlin-nexenta: a client could depend on the info, not what the info is | 19:29 |
| caitlin-nexenta | It's useful information, but you could never *rely* on an answer. | 19:29 |
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| clayg | sorry, client may have been the wrong term, a service that is using this info to implement it's funtionality | 19:29 |
| chmouel | caitlin-nexenta: i think they are talking about providing an api contract | 19:29 |
| davidh_ | It assumes that the haddop is running on the same servers right? | 19:29 |
| clayg | it's api access to the ring | 19:29 |
| notmyname | it's more general than hadoop. it's..ya, what clayg jsut said | 19:30 |
| clayg | why expose it all if NO ONE can use or depend on it | 19:30 |
| clayg | neway, I think it's great, different than s3 | 19:30 |
| davidh_ | clayg: why do we need to offer an API access to the ring | 19:30 |
| clayg | I just think it's a paper tiger argument to keep calling api expansion "optional" | 19:30 |
| cschwede | might be useful for a future erasure coding implementation as well (have to think about it) | 19:30 |
| swifterdarrell | Okay, so the criteria for middleware inclusion is something like A) adds something (presumably useful) to the Swift API, and B) does not implement a different API than the Swift API? | 19:31 |
| clayg | davidh_: I didn't write it, but the gneral idea is that stuff can do cleaver things running on the nodes, and if it has to first write a native binding to the ring structure (which may change) then it's a barrier to entry | 19:31 |
| notmyname | swifterdarrell: well, there's also the "do the core devs want to maintain it" | 19:32 |
| clayg | lol | 19:32 |
| clayg | that's the only one that matters | 19:32 |
| clayg | sorry, bad joke | 19:32 |
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| dfg | its not a lot of code | 19:32 |
| cschwede | do the core devs maintain all patches from contributors? | 19:32 |
| creiht | notmyname: so if you go down this route, then do you plan to do the same with the rest of the middleware? | 19:32 |
| clayg | cschwede: only if they break or if we need to change something they use | 19:32 |
| davidh_ | This exposes internal data out - does not make sense - if it is used only by internal elements - we need to offer an internal API - not one that can be used by a client | 19:33 |
| notmyname | creiht: we tried that already :-) | 19:33 |
| creiht | like for example the domain remap/cname stuff? | 19:33 |
| creiht | davidh_: From their description the purpose would be to run on a proxy that is only running internally | 19:33 |
| clayg | davidh_: I think there's a class of "services" that will run "in cluster" which can make use of ring information directly | 19:33 |
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| swifterdarrell | btw, IIRC, the "why" of this was discussed at the patch by the actual author | 19:34 |
| creiht | swifterdarrell: correct | 19:34 |
| creiht | they need the info for their hadoop integration | 19:34 |
| SergeyLukjanov | this feature will provide an ability to run "in cluster" services using "data locality" | 19:34 |
| davidh_ | Using the ring directly is fine as long as it uses the Ring.py or some CLI that uses Ring.Py | 19:34 |
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| dfg | i think its simple and generic enough to be useful to a bunch of different applications. also serves as an example of how you can do stuff like this. i don't think the swift3 is a good comparison. what's the problem with it? | 19:35 |
| torgomatic | also, it's as close to disabled-by-default as any middleware can be, in that it's not in the sample config's middleware pipeline | 19:35 |
| swifterdarrell | Personally, I'm not interestedin a discussion of the merits of the patch for its intended purpose. I care more about whether it's fine to include it in core and what the criteria for that are. | 19:35 |
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| swifterdarrell | So notmyname, you mentioned that core-dev interest in maintenance is a pre-req to middleware inclusion? | 19:36 |
| creiht | well there isn't any official criteria that I am aware of | 19:36 |
| creiht | so are you proposing that we define it? | 19:36 |
| swifterdarrell | creiht: correct | 19:36 |
| clayg | i feel like swifterdarrell wants to try out the vote fucntion in this meeting thing... | 19:36 |
| torgomatic | swifterdarrell: I think what you said earlier are good criteria, FWIW. | 19:36 |
| dfg | please lets not try to make one ;) | 19:36 |
| creiht | lol | 19:36 |
| notmyname | swifterdarrell: it's an implicit one, I think. your list earlier is good too | 19:36 |
| torgomatic | although there's some official OpenStack thingy saying you can't implement third-party APIs unless you're Nova | 19:37 |
| notmyname | the only real criteria there is right now is that we have one officially supported API (eg we wont' include S3 or CDMI in core) | 19:37 |
| swifterdarrell | I don't care if it's "official" | 19:37 |
| creiht | torgomatic: no that is up to the project to decide on 3rd party apis | 19:37 |
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| torgomatic | creiht: ah, I misunderstood then | 19:37 |
| clayg | why do we need to "define the critera" if we can change them on a case by case basis... if it's just a question of posting a "guideline" somewhere we can point contributers to so they know our currently line of thinking... let's just put what swifterdarrell said in the sphinx docs under "contributing" | 19:38 |
| creiht | to which we did decide to not include 3rd party apis | 19:38 |
| notmyname | creiht: actually, torgomatic is right | 19:38 |
| creiht | oh did they change that again? | 19:38 |
| notmyname | creiht: ya, while you were off being a manager ;-) | 19:38 |
| creiht | heh | 19:38 |
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| davidh_ | Regardless of maintainance - the problem is not with what this patch wish to achieve - it is with the how - it should preferably not be an external API. | 19:38 |
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| tongli | I think that patch should be in is because it enables swift to serve the purpose that is important now and in future. | 19:39 |
| notmyname | ok, so to summarize: there is no official requirements for inclusion in core other than it's got to be a good patch and can't implement a 3rd party API | 19:39 |
| creiht | davidh_: so you suggest that we should have an official java api for the ring then? | 19:39 |
| dfg | 2 core-devs approval means core-devs are willing to support it. i'll look at it again later and approve it. if someone else agrees- done. what's wrong with that? any kind of official criteria can be put off til needed. cause it will be a pain | 19:39 |
| swifterdarrell | sounds great; so there's no prob w/this patch or the account quota | 19:39 |
| creiht | or insert favorite language | 19:39 |
| torgomatic | notmyname: agreed 100% | 19:39 |
| swifterdarrell | we done with this topic? | 19:39 |
| swifterdarrell | :) | 19:39 |
| notmyname | davidh_: that discussion should be taken to the review | 19:39 |
| tongli | if someone wants to use swift for hadoop, then they can. | 19:39 |
| davidh_ | creiht: we will have (already have) a python one - if someone would convert it to a Java one - he can use it | 19:40 |
| clayg | davidh_: until we change the ring - then he has to fix it | 19:40 |
| swifterdarrell | dfg: agreed | 19:40 |
| creiht | that's the problem is that it isn't trivial, and possibly very error prone | 19:40 |
| davidh_ | notmyname: ok. | 19:40 |
| creiht | and the reason he wanted to expose it as an api | 19:40 |
| notmyname | swifterdarrell: ya, I think we're done with this. you can move forward on your review now :-) | 19:41 |
| clayg | ... so we DON'T get to use the vote feature :'( | 19:41 |
| swifterdarrell | sweet | 19:41 |
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| swifterdarrell | clayg: sorry :) | 19:41 |
| notmyname | #topic general discussion | 19:41 |
| creiht | #vote no to bringing it to a vite | 19:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "general discussion (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:41 | |
| notmyname | anything else? | 19:42 |
| creiht | vote even | 19:42 |
| creiht | :) | 19:42 |
| clayg | object-replicator-2 looks pretty sweet | 19:42 |
| notmyname | I wanted to ask gholt about a blueprint he has... | 19:42 |
| notmyname | ya that one | 19:42 |
| notmyname | but he's not here (and it's not time critical) | 19:42 |
| creiht | I'm sure it will solve world hunger ;) | 19:42 |
| clayg | last I checked there wasn't a sqlite schema, but the native rest calls where starting to form up | 19:42 |
| notmyname | ok, let's call it. thanks for your time today | 19:43 |
| davidh_ | clayg: does replicator-2 uses rsync or just PUT? | 19:43 |
| notmyname | #endmeeting | 19:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 19:43 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Mar 6 19:43:45 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:43 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2013/swift.2013-03-06-19.00.html | 19:43 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2013/swift.2013-03-06-19.00.txt | 19:43 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2013/swift.2013-03-06-19.00.log.html | 19:43 |
| notmyname | davidh_: ah, sorry. (and I don't know. gholt seems to be writing it) | 19:44 |
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| creiht | davidh_: I think the last he was testing with, it uses straight PUT | 19:44 |
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| creiht | but I haven't talked to him about it recently | 19:44 |
| torgomatic | davidh_: code's here https://github.com/gholt/swift-object-replicator2 | 19:44 |
| torgomatic | I haven't read it enough to answer your questions though | 19:44 |
| creiht | looks like right now it is configurable to use either | 19:45 |
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| sdake | #startmeeting heat | 19:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Mar 6 19:59:30 2013 UTC. The chair is sdake. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 19:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 19:59 |
| sdake | #topic rollcall | 19:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)" | 19:59 | |
| sdake | steak here | 19:59 |
| shardy | shardy here | 19:59 |
| SpamapS | spam here | 19:59 |
| asalkeld | here | 20:00 |
| jpeeler | here | 20:00 |
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| zbitter | o/ | 20:00 |
| *** zbitter is now known as zaneb | 20:01 | |
| sdake | ok lets get rolling | 20:01 |
| sdake | #topic bugs | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:01 | |
| sdake | on the project planning meeting, got the message that we need to have our buglist at zero | 20:01 |
| sdake | then we release rc1 | 20:01 |
| sdake | so i'll go through the bugs that don't have activity on them | 20:02 |
| sdake | https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1128486 | 20:02 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1128486 in heat/grizzly "creating a stack without a required param, fails correctly but leaves the stack created" [High,New] | 20:02 |
| sdake | this almost seems critical to me... | 20:02 |
| asalkeld | that was mine | 20:03 |
| sdake | okie i'll assign you | 20:03 |
| zaneb | is this just due to rollback not being the default any more? | 20:03 |
| asalkeld | it was a while back | 20:04 |
| asalkeld | I'll need to retest | 20:04 |
| stevebaker | here! | 20:04 |
| SpamapS | If anybody is overwhelmed I have cycles for bug fixes | 20:04 |
| SpamapS | Just been focused on testing and planning lately. | 20:04 |
| sdake | https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1072949 | 20:05 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1072949 in heat/grizzly "Reset DB migrations" [Critical,Triaged] | 20:05 |
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| zaneb | started investigating | 20:05 |
| sdake | spamaps we can use help in reviews ;) | 20:05 |
| SpamapS | Seems to me like the Low's should just be dropped from rc1 | 20:05 |
| sdake | reviews piling up | 20:05 |
| SpamapS | sdake: roger that | 20:05 |
| zaneb | I actually think DB migrations is not as high a priority as I first thought; it shouldn't break existing users | 20:06 |
| sdake | atm we only have 5 bugs and have until 20th | 20:06 |
| sdake | suggest high prio then? | 20:06 |
| sdake | (rather then critical) | 20:06 |
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| zaneb | sure | 20:06 |
| SpamapS | https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/grizzly-rc1 says rc1 is the 14th btw | 20:07 |
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| zaneb | I see nova have moved to a different tool altogether and I'm kinda envious ;) | 20:07 |
| sdake | https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1135970 | 20:07 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1135970 in heat "--timeout doesn't work for heat-boto" [Medium,Triaged] | 20:07 |
| zaneb | it can generate the migrations for you | 20:07 |
| sdake | ya, i'd like it to be 14th :) | 20:07 |
| sdake | but 20th is drop dead date | 20:07 |
| shardy | sdake: I'm on that, simple fix | 20:07 |
| shardy | probably get it done tomorrow | 20:08 |
| sdake | https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1150091 | 20:08 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1150091 in heat "API policy debug logging is too noisy" [Low,Triaged] | 20:08 |
| shardy | ditto | 20:08 |
| sdake | https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1102101 | 20:08 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1102101 in heat/grizzly "--host option to heat-boto is ignored" [Low,Triaged] | 20:08 |
| shardy | likewise.. :) | 20:08 |
| sdake | shardy superman for rc1 ;) | 20:09 |
| sdake | ok, rest look like they are in progress with patches queued up | 20:09 |
| shardy | these ones are really simple fixes, I've just prioritized the more serious problems | 20:09 |
| sdake | remember, put a bug and the bug number for fixes for rc1 in the changelogs | 20:09 |
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| sdake | are there any outstanding bugs not in the bug tracker people are aware of? | 20:10 |
| shardy | sdake: I found an issue with update today, bug pending | 20:10 |
| sdake | ok | 20:10 |
| SpamapS | I've been testing a lot, spinning up nested stacks and stuff.. it all seems to be working quite well. | 20:10 |
| sdake | for the next week if your not working on bugs recommend running heat manually make sure there aren't bugs our test cases don't catch | 20:11 |
| sdake | and once bug count hits zero, i'll do rc1 release | 20:11 |
| sdake | #topic new core members | 20:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "new core members (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:11 | |
| sdake | every 6 months, we should select new core members for heat | 20:12 |
| sdake | (ie before summit) | 20:12 |
| sdake | core gives folks the rights to +2 a patch or approve a patch | 20:12 |
| asalkeld | hopefully a bit more dynamic than that | 20:12 |
| sdake | well atleast every 6 months ;) | 20:12 |
| asalkeld | if I get stuck into heat, I might have to wait 5 months to get into core? | 20:13 |
| sdake | let me rephrase, few weeks prior to summit, we should consider the candidates | 20:13 |
| asalkeld | I think it shoud be continous | 20:13 |
| sdake | think a few months wfm | 20:13 |
| sdake | wan't to make sure core members are really ready to commit to that | 20:13 |
| sdake | in my mind the criteria are | 20:13 |
| sdake | 1) understand code base | 20:13 |
| sdake | 2) have some level of reviews in the system | 20:13 |
| sdake | 3) participate in irc on #heat channel | 20:14 |
| sdake | 4) submit patches | 20:14 |
| asalkeld | but none of that takes 6 months to prove | 20:14 |
| sdake | with #4 being less of a concern then others | 20:14 |
| sdake | i agree | 20:14 |
| sdake | I said few months.. | 20:14 |
| asalkeld | weeding out could be every 6 months | 20:14 |
| asalkeld | (removing from core) | 20:14 |
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| SpamapS | Perhaps its just something people can bring up at any meeting if they feel a candidate is ready for core status? | 20:14 |
| asalkeld | +1 | 20:15 |
| sdake | ya, if you have a candidate for submission and your core send it my way and I'll put on submission | 20:15 |
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| sdake | for this cycle Spamaps seems like a good core candidate | 20:15 |
| SpamapS | If there's a quorum of core people, a vote can be taken, and done in any meeting, right? | 20:15 |
| sdake | so I'll send his name to the list and get a +1/0/-1 vote from folks in core | 20:15 |
| SpamapS | sdake: :) thank you. | 20:15 |
| sdake | would rather do on mailing list | 20:15 |
| sdake | anyone have suggestions for other core members | 20:16 |
| SpamapS | sure, ML is even more dynamic actually :) | 20:16 |
| sdake | we have a few patches from other folks but not much patch review or irc participation | 20:16 |
| sdake | so unless I'm missing someone I'll move on ;) | 20:17 |
| sdake | #topic plugin interface | 20:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "plugin interface (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:17 | |
| sdake | there was a review that zaneb spawned which generated some controversy around plugin api lockdown | 20:17 |
| sdake | i think we had some disjointed conversations about it but it is worth discussing in one place | 20:18 |
| sdake | zaneb care to restate your thoughts on that | 20:18 |
| zaneb | I think the conclusion we came to is that we would not freeze the plugin api until Havana? | 20:19 |
| asalkeld | what is the "policy" with drivers in say quantum | 20:19 |
| asalkeld | re: stability | 20:19 |
| sdake | good question | 20:19 |
| SpamapS | +1 from me, there aren't very many plugins, and if there are, they're likely nascent | 20:19 |
| asalkeld | I suspect only on stable branches | 20:19 |
| SpamapS | so freezing this early would possibly miss some needs that early plugin devs will find as grizzly sees use | 20:19 |
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| sdake | ok well seems to me freezing in havana makes sense | 20:20 |
| asalkeld | (on the stable branch) | 20:20 |
| asalkeld | ? | 20:20 |
| sdake | after we have sorted out parallel launch | 20:21 |
| stevebaker | I think we should encourage plugins to be developed in tree at this point, the carrot is that we will take the burden of updating for api changes | 20:21 |
| SpamapS | It would be great to make an effort to not break backward compatability w/ grizzly if at all possible... but better to break it in Havana and never again than miss important pieces | 20:21 |
| shardy | Yeah, only freeze the stable branch, versioned per major release IMO | 20:21 |
| sdake | yes we had talked about adding a version to the plugins | 20:21 |
| sdake | so the engine could work with older plugins | 20:21 |
| sdake | if ver = 1 do x if ver =2 do y | 20:21 |
| zaneb | versioning sounds like a bag of hurt to me | 20:21 |
| zaneb | do people have suggestions of how to do it? | 20:22 |
| asalkeld | -1 to versioning | 20:22 |
| sdake | theoretically heat is perfect so no need to update the version :) | 20:22 |
| SpamapS | :) | 20:22 |
| SpamapS | I prefer API's that only move forward with new aspects, rather than version themselves aggressively | 20:23 |
| shardy | I don't really get why we're making plans to freeze this interface now, I mean we've had very few users asking about custom resources in #heat | 20:23 |
| sdake | well we are not freezing in g | 20:23 |
| sdake | the proposal was to freeze in h | 20:24 |
| shardy | which I assume means most people are only using the internally defined resources, so we can keep changing it until people start making significant use of the plugin capability | 20:24 |
| asalkeld | shardy, not everyone will tell us | 20:24 |
| SpamapS | shardy: I look at what will happen if, say, HP Cloud or Rackspace deploy heat.. they'll want to plugin to things that are specific to their clouds with plugins that are not public at all. | 20:24 |
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| shardy | sdake: I guess I'm saying I don't see the motivation behind committing to that, when the interface is still maturing (as evidenced by the discussion today re zaneb's patch) | 20:24 |
| sdake | i'll shoot a mail to Dan ask him what they are doing with quantum | 20:25 |
| SpamapS | shardy: if the API is unversioned but also stays backward compatible with havana's API.. there will be nothing but happy heat users. If old versions start getting dropped.. there will be sad heat users. | 20:25 |
| zaneb | shardy: people will stop following trunk once we have a proper grizzly release out there | 20:25 |
| shardy | SpamapS: Yep, but they will have to re-test those in-house plugins every major release anyway, so would it be a huge problem if there are clearly documented interface tweaks between major releases occasionally? | 20:25 |
| zaneb | shardy: we may not have time to react | 20:26 |
| zaneb | but I am still find with holding off until havana | 20:26 |
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| SpamapS | shardy: no its not a problem at all. I'm suggesting simply that the less backward compatibility breakage allowed, the less important versioning becomes. | 20:26 |
| sdake | in h3 we will have to make a decision about versioning the api | 20:26 |
| SpamapS | and yes, I think we can table this until havan | 20:26 |
| SpamapS | a | 20:26 |
| SpamapS | hrm | 20:26 |
| SpamapS | perhaps we should start a discussion before h3? | 20:27 |
| shardy | Ok, I guess I'm saying I support stability of the interface, but not at the expense of subsequent innovation (implied by the "frozen forever" idea) | 20:27 |
| sdake | so lets put it off until then | 20:27 |
| zaneb | shardy: +1 | 20:27 |
| zaneb | I don't think anyone is talking about frozen forever | 20:28 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, converting instanceGroups into a stackedResource would make that change large not needed | 20:28 |
| SpamapS | no not frozen forever. "BC breaks discouraged". | 20:28 |
| zaneb | the discussion was sparked by "breaking changes that we know already might be on the horizon"... it's always good to get those in early | 20:28 |
| SpamapS | Right, especially when the impact will be almost nil. | 20:29 |
| shardy | Ok, provided we have some flexibility for future changes then all good :) | 20:29 |
| sdake | yes, I think we don't know what that should be tho from the debate on the patch in question | 20:29 |
| zaneb | so, for the patch in question, the breaking change was adding a parameter to check_active() | 20:29 |
| zaneb | there are a bunch of ways to fix that | 20:30 |
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| zaneb | 1) just document now that people should expect there may be parameters in the future | 20:30 |
| sdake | i'd rather not change the api at this point in the release | 20:30 |
| zaneb | 2) do introspection on the method before calling it to see how many parameters it takes | 20:30 |
| asalkeld | urg | 20:30 |
| asalkeld | more complexity | 20:31 |
| zaneb | but if we _know_ we want to change it, better to do so now | 20:31 |
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| zaneb | there's no consensus for change though, so I'm happy to delay | 20:31 |
| sdake | i'm not convinced we know *how* we want to change it | 20:31 |
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| zaneb | right | 20:31 |
| zaneb | I know how I want to change it, and everybody else disagrees ;) | 20:31 |
| asalkeld | also when/if the rackspace get stuck in | 20:31 |
| zaneb | but that's fine | 20:32 |
| sdake | ok all done with that topic then ? | 20:32 |
| asalkeld | ya | 20:32 |
| sdake | #topic open items | 20:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open items (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:32 | |
| sdake | summit proposals for heat | 20:33 |
| stevebaker | heat-cfntools should be in gerrit any second now, so expect some review requests | 20:33 |
| sdake | if you have them, submit them ;) | 20:33 |
| sdake | nice work there stevebaker | 20:33 |
| SpamapS | cool | 20:33 |
| shardy | stevebaker: I made a pull request today, do I need to gerrit-ify it? | 20:33 |
| stevebaker | shardy: yeah, I've got a pull request that I'll withdraw too | 20:33 |
| shardy | ok, cool | 20:34 |
| shardy | sdake: re summit, I was going to propose a design session to revisit the in-instance credentials issue | 20:34 |
| shardy | where do I propose it? | 20:34 |
| sdake | shardy sounds good | 20:34 |
| SpamapS | shardy: +1 | 20:34 |
| sdake | http://summit.openstack.org/ | 20:35 |
| SpamapS | I'm also keenly interested in the possiblity of per-instance metadata for instance groups | 20:35 |
| sdake | push the suggest ession button | 20:35 |
| SpamapS | something I've only recently figured out I probably need | 20:35 |
| asalkeld | so trusts are in, do we want to make use of them now? | 20:35 |
| SpamapS | can perhaps fold it into the rolling updates session, but that seems like it will be quite a full discussion | 20:35 |
| shardy | sdake: ok, I'll add a suggestion, thanks | 20:36 |
| sdake | if by now, you mean havana, possibly | 20:36 |
| asalkeld | since they were put in for us | 20:36 |
| SpamapS | asalkeld: probably worth investigation in that session yeah | 20:36 |
| shardy | asalkeld: they don't solve the in-instance problem, but might help with the stored context problem | 20:36 |
| asalkeld | agree | 20:36 |
| asalkeld | but for the cloud watch poller | 20:36 |
| sdake | one thing that came up re openshift integration that kraman is doing | 20:36 |
| sdake | is a method for autoscaling to be triggered by the application itself | 20:37 |
| SpamapS | do people feel like per-instance metadata for groups is a thing we can discuss? I'll put together a proposal spec and everything. | 20:37 |
| sdake | rather then infrastructure outside | 20:37 |
| shardy | Yep, I'll add usage of trusts to the authentication-way-forward session proposal | 20:37 |
| sdake | spamaps ack | 20:37 |
| sdake | asalkeld you have any thoughts on app triggered scaling | 20:37 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: AutoscalingGroups or InstanceGroups? | 20:37 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: InstanceGroups | 20:37 |
| zaneb | cool | 20:38 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: specifically, I want to provide them with per-instance credentials to a database and a queue system. | 20:38 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, SpamapS just use nested stacks | 20:38 |
| shardy | SpamapS: The main thing I'm not sure on is the interface, since the interfaces share a launch configuration, meaning you can't define the metadata update via UpdateStack | 20:38 |
| shardy | but happy to discuss it so we can work out a solution ;) | 20:38 |
| SpamapS | shardy: yeah thats the bit that needs some thought, and I'm willing to design that if you guys think its not totally insane. :) | 20:38 |
| asalkeld | sdake I'll need to think that through | 20:39 |
| SpamapS | I do have some ideas for combining LaunchConfiguration with WaitCondition | 20:39 |
| sdake | asalkeld can you think about it and shoot me an email ;) | 20:39 |
| SpamapS | but, lets not design it in here :) | 20:39 |
| shardy | SpamapS: As asalkeld says, a possibly easier solution would be nested stacks, with the nested template effectively defining the InstanceGroup | 20:39 |
| asalkeld | yip | 20:40 |
| SpamapS | hm | 20:40 |
| SpamapS | you're basically saying give each one an Instance resource? | 20:40 |
| asalkeld | yes | 20:40 |
| SpamapS | thats my workaround currently. | 20:40 |
| shardy | yep | 20:40 |
| SpamapS | but then that plays poorly with rolling updates. | 20:40 |
| shardy | but in a nested template | 20:40 |
| asalkeld | how so | 20:41 |
| SpamapS | as I end up having to build rolling updates using WaitConditions.. which.. will work, but seems inelegant and crude. | 20:41 |
| asalkeld | well we can talk at summit about that | 20:41 |
| SpamapS | exactly | 20:42 |
| zaneb | idea of per-instance metadata sounds fine for InstanceGroups if you can find a sane interface | 20:42 |
| shardy | +1 | 20:42 |
| * SpamapS will propose a session and send a ML post with a draft proposal | 20:42 | |
| zaneb | for AutoscalingGroups we should stick to the AWS interface IMO | 20:42 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: +1, lets not break AWS for my crazy use cases. :) | 20:42 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, for sure - more ment to use the resourcestack class | 20:43 |
| SpamapS | btw CloudFormation added rolling updates to autoscaling groups in case anybodymissed that | 20:43 |
| asalkeld | yea, they are sneaking features out all the time | 20:43 |
| asalkeld | (just like us) | 20:44 |
| sdake | ok anything else? | 20:44 |
| shardy | I have another item re template format | 20:44 |
| sdake | shoot | 20:44 |
| shardy | I was asked if we plan to stick with the AWS templates, or if we are working towards supporting some "openstack blessed" more open template syntax | 20:45 |
| sdake | asked by who? | 20:45 |
| asalkeld | many ask that | 20:45 |
| sdake | nobody has proposed a new template format | 20:46 |
| shardy | I know near-term we'll stick to CFN/yaml, but do we have a longer term objective to support something else, if so is there a viable alternative? | 20:46 |
| sdake | that is what summit submissions are for | 20:46 |
| SpamapS | http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/78 btw | 20:46 |
| zaneb | different != better | 20:47 |
| SpamapS | shardy: I think it would be a fundamental change for little gain. | 20:47 |
| zaneb | I would happily entertain any suggestions for a better template format | 20:47 |
| shardy | Ok, I just wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts on the matter | 20:47 |
| stevebaker | I'm thinking incremental improvements at the moment | 20:47 |
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| SpamapS | I definitely can see wanting to get away from potential trademark infringement by removing AWS/EC2/S3/etc. though | 20:47 |
| sdake | my thought is if someone wants to add a new template format, they will submit a talk at openstack summit | 20:48 |
| zaneb | all I hear is suggestions for a different template format, with no justification except that it can be incompatible | 20:48 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: yes, a full suite of native resources should be on the plan | 20:48 |
| zaneb | as if that were a good thing | 20:48 |
| * stevebaker ponders ansible integration | 20:48 | |
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| sdake | new shinies ! | 20:48 |
| sdake | ok | 20:48 |
| sdake | well I'd like to wrap up | 20:48 |
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| sdake | #topic agenda setting | 20:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "agenda setting (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:48 | |
| SpamapS | The template format, sans amazon trademarks, is up for discussion as a way to express the full deployment of OpenStack | 20:48 |
| sdake | we have alot of stuff in the open discussoin session that should be on the agenda | 20:49 |
| sdake | I'm guilty as everyone else ;) | 20:49 |
| SpamapS | good point sdake | 20:49 |
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| sdake | but in the future, if you could add your topics to the agenda it may help the meeting avoid some crosstalk | 20:49 |
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| sdake | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda | 20:49 |
| sdake | add right under "Open Discussion" | 20:49 |
| sdake | sorry right above | 20:50 |
| shardy | sdake: yeah, sorry, my topic came up late in the day | 20:50 |
| sdake | np | 20:50 |
| shardy | s/topic/question | 20:50 |
| sdake | feel free to add before meeting and if we can get to it we will | 20:50 |
| sdake | ok thanks | 20:50 |
| sdake | remember, march 14th would like all the buggies fixed 20th latest | 20:50 |
| sdake | #endmeeting | 20:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 20:51 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Mar 6 20:51:00 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:51 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-03-06-19.59.html | 20:51 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-03-06-19.59.txt | 20:51 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-03-06-19.59.log.html | 20:51 |
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| ttx | davidh_: you've got plenty of time. Like until the end of the month | 21:15 |
| ttx | cc: notmyname ^ | 21:15 |
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| notmyname | ttx: thanks | 21:22 |
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| davidh_ | ttx, thans | 22:44 |
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| davidh_ | thanks | 22:44 |
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