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| nijaba | #startmeeting Ceilometer | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| nijaba | #meetingtopic Ceilometer | 15:00 |
| nijaba | #chair nijaba | 15:00 |
| nijaba | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/MeteringAgenda | 15:00 |
| nijaba | ATTENTION: please keep discussion focused on topic until we reach the open discussion topic | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jan 24 15:00:07 2013 UTC. The chair is nijaba. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Current chairs: nijaba | 15:00 |
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| nijaba | Hello everyone! Show of hands, who is around for the ceilometer meeting? | 15:00 |
| nijaba | o/ | 15:00 |
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| spn | o/ | 15:00 |
| yjiang5_home | o/ | 15:00 |
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| dhellmann | o/ | 15:00 |
| danspraggins | o/ | 15:00 |
| llu-laptop | o/ | 15:00 |
| fnaval | o/ | 15:00 |
| jhopper | o/ | 15:00 |
| jd__ | o/ | 15:00 |
| nijaba | good to see everyone and new faces ! | 15:01 |
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| * jd__ sees new hands | 15:01 | |
| nijaba | #topic actions from previous meeting | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions from previous meeting (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:01 | |
| eglynn | o/ | 15:01 |
| divakar | <divakar> | 15:01 |
| nijaba | #topic nijaba to specify draft policy on wiki for units | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "nijaba to specify draft policy on wiki for units (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:01 | |
| YehiaBeyh | <YehiaBeyh> | 15:01 |
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| * dragondm waves hi | 15:01 | |
| * nijaba has been a bad boy and has not had time to work on this | 15:01 | |
| nijaba | #action nijaba to specify draft policy on wiki for units | 15:02 |
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| nijaba | That's it for last week | 15:02 |
| nijaba | #topic relevance of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/ceilometer-agent-object-storage | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "relevance of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/ceilometer-agent-object-storage (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:02 | |
| nijaba | jd__: floor is yours | 15:02 |
| YehiaBeyh | there was an action "llu to get in touch with the healthmon team to see what their reaction is to our plan for integration, putting the ml in cc". Divakar was trying to setup a meeting to go over the plan - any luck on this? | 15:02 |
| divakar | I have updated the ceilometer wiki with the healthnmon plans http://wiki.openstack.org/Ceilometer/CeilometerAndHealthnmon | 15:03 |
| * jd__ let the floor to YehiaBeyh and divakar | 15:03 | |
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| llu-laptop | i'm looking at the wiki | 15:04 |
| divakar | As per my proposal | 15:04 |
| divakar | Healthnmon as the source of metering data (for compute to start with) | 15:04 |
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| divakar | Healthnmon currently has implemented drivers for KVM to collect the required meters data for both Compute and Instances running on the compute remotely. The same data can be leveraged by Ceilometer thru Healthnmon APIs as initial step | 15:05 |
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| divakar | Ceilometer Centralized Agent mechanism can be leveraged to pull the required metering data from Healthnmon | 15:05 |
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| divakar | Healthnmon is working on the required drivers for vCenter ESX and Hyper-V as well | 15:06 |
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| dhellmann | so this plan is the opposite of the plan we've discussed previously? | 15:07 |
| divakar | Collecting the data from healthnmon would help in getting the data for all the hypervisors | 15:07 |
| divakar | that are supported thru openstack | 15:07 |
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| dhellmann | we need drivers for all of the hypervisors for metering, so we need to implement those in ceilometer at some point anyway | 15:07 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: this is what it sounds like | 15:07 |
| spn | Are you are talking about some virch url://of-some-remote-hypversir? | 15:07 |
| sandywalsh | (belated o/) | 15:08 |
| jd__ | I don't think it buys anything to use healthnmon as another abstraction layer for that | 15:08 |
| dhellmann | jd__: agreed | 15:08 |
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| nijaba | jd__: +1 | 15:08 |
| dragondm | I've been looking at implementing for xenserver... | 15:09 |
| jd__ | I admit it can be a good source of information, but we want to support the hypervisors Nova does directly | 15:09 |
| YehiaBeyh | how is the plan different from what was discussed previously? | 15:09 |
| dhellmann | divakar: can you discuss a bit your objections with the plan described in 6.1 and 6.2 of the wiki page? | 15:09 |
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| dhellmann | YehiaBeyh: in the previous plan the data would flow from ceilometer to healthnmon, in the new plan that is reversed | 15:09 |
| sandywalsh | can we not do this through the existing hypervisor polling mechanism in Nova and not require the agent (or have to depend on healthmon) for it? | 15:10 |
| dhellmann | that really only works for deployments where the admins want both healthnmon monitoring and ceilometer metering | 15:10 |
| dhellmann | sandywalsh: the plan is to get a version of that code in ceilometer and take it out of nova | 15:10 |
| dhellmann | sandywalsh: that's probably at least an H change for nova | 15:10 |
| sandywalsh | hmm | 15:10 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: there isn't such polling for now AFAIK | 15:10 |
| divakar | As part of healthnmon we are already collecting the inventory data + alerting + utilization data (meters) | 15:10 |
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| sandywalsh | jd__: yup, we use it | 15:11 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: you retrieve CPU time and disk IO from nova ? | 15:11 |
| dragondm | we already poll in nova for bw data | 15:11 |
| sandywalsh | jd__: whatever the hypervisor offers | 15:11 |
| sandywalsh | jd__: essentially, whatever the agent is doing, we can do in the polling | 15:11 |
| dragondm | the low level code for disk/cpu is there | 15:11 |
| divakar | So healthnmon has the required data for making the decisions while scheduling, monitoring, metering and also for analytics | 15:12 |
| dragondm | we just need to emit it. | 15:12 |
| eglynn | dragondm: I believe those bw stats only reported by the xenapi driver though | 15:12 |
| dhellmann | hey, folks, let's please focus on divakar's proposal for now | 15:12 |
| dhellmann | we can discuss APIs in a bit | 15:12 |
| dragondm | ok | 15:12 |
| sandywalsh | dhellmann: it's related is it not? | 15:12 |
| dhellmann | sandywalsh: one thing at a time | 15:12 |
| divakar | Let me summarize | 15:12 |
| divakar | healthnmon has the required data for making the decisions while scheduling, monitoring, metering and also for analytics | 15:13 |
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| divakar | We are looking at providing a single point of data around monitoring, scheduling and support for use cases around analytics, autonomics and planning | 15:13 |
| dhellmann | divakar: that "single point" is overlapping with a couple of other projects at this point :-) | 15:14 |
| divakar | metering also can be driven from this data and hence the proposal | 15:14 |
| divakar | At this point I see that Heat is looking for scheduling data + alerting data which can be integrated as well | 15:15 |
| nijaba | yes, it seems that we are hitting again the same issue of goals for each projects which have a big overlap | 15:15 |
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| nijaba | lot of good work is being put into multi publisher in ceilo | 15:16 |
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| nijaba | I would propose that we rationalize around this | 15:16 |
| n0ano | dare one suggest the next design summit, seems like we're impinging too many different areas | 15:16 |
| nijaba | n0ano: I was driving to this | 15:16 |
| nijaba | specially since we are in the last milestone of the project | 15:16 |
| nijaba | and need to finalize existing bp | 15:17 |
| sandywalsh | divakar: fwiw, we've stopped stacktach development in favor of CM development for this very reason ... project overlap. | 15:17 |
| jhopper | this is also the reason for me being here as well | 15:17 |
| jhopper | project overlap | 15:17 |
| divakar | Monitoring is not a overlap at this point | 15:17 |
| nijaba | I think we should start preparing the meetings at the summit to deep dive on this | 15:18 |
| sandywalsh | divakar: with stacktach it is | 15:18 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: +1000 | 15:18 |
| nijaba | but please, let's move back to the advertised topics | 15:18 |
| spn | +1 | 15:18 |
| nijaba | jd__: please go ahead | 15:18 |
| YehiaBeyh | what is the major overlap here? | 15:19 |
| YehiaBeyh | is it the data collection? | 15:19 |
| nijaba | #topic relevance of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/ceilometer-agent-object-storage | 15:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "relevance of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/ceilometer-agent-object-storage (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:19 | |
| jhopper | For me, yes | 15:19 |
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| jd__ | so this blueprint is about creatin another new agent | 15:19 |
| sandywalsh | collection, storage, api, aggregation, propagation | 15:19 |
| jd__ | technically this is isn't required since it can be done with the central agent | 15:19 |
| jd__ | -is | 15:19 |
| jd__ | I'm not sure it's a really good idea to split the central agent again and create more namespace | 15:20 |
| dhellmann | jd__: what's the motivation for doing this specific polling in a separate agent? | 15:20 |
| nijaba | why were you thinking about spliting it in the first place? to be able to disable it? | 15:20 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: in case you just run swift? | 15:21 |
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| * sandywalsh votes to kill the agent altogether ... nova is the touch point to the hypervisor. | 15:21 | |
| jd__ | nijaba: yes, I think it was about being able to enable/disable things, but we can do this now | 15:21 |
| dragondm | +1 | 15:21 |
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| danspraggins | +1 | 15:21 |
| nijaba | jd__: agreed, this is now par of multi publisher, IIUC | 15:21 |
| dhellmann | jd__: the existing config option to disable pollsters isn't very rich | 15:21 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: but it's enough to do that IIUC | 15:21 |
| jd__ | nijaba: now it is even more yes | 15:22 |
| dhellmann | jd__: yeah, I hit send too soon -- the existing option should work, but the new publisher config will make it even easier | 15:22 |
| yjiang5_home | sandywalsh: this is for swift. | 15:22 |
| jd__ | ok, so sounds like we all agreed to say that this blueprint is obsolete | 15:22 |
| jd__ | ? | 15:22 |
| dhellmann | +1 | 15:22 |
| nijaba | +1 | 15:22 |
| yjiang5_home | jd__: +1 | 15:22 |
| jhopper | I would argue against multiple agents - they all serve a similar domain purpose and a much richer configuration may make deployment simpler (same package, different cfg) | 15:22 |
| jd__ | this is what I though :-) I'll change its status, thanks guy | 15:23 |
| jhopper | +1 | 15:23 |
| llu-laptop | +1 | 15:23 |
| fnaval | +1 | 15:23 |
| jd__ | guyS | 15:23 |
| eglynn | yep, +1 to non-agent-proliferation | 15:23 |
| YehiaBeyh | +1 | 15:23 |
| jd__ | we can move to the next topic I guess | 15:23 |
| sandywalsh | +1 (no agents) | 15:23 |
| nijaba | #topic blueprint review | 15:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprint review (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:23 | |
| nijaba | #link - https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/grizzly-3 | 15:23 |
| nijaba | we have quite a few not started ones | 15:24 |
| nijaba | can you guys tell me if you think we should postpone them or keep them? | 15:24 |
| yjiang5_home | I'm working on Publisher counters frequency receival now, since the multiple publisher patch is under review | 15:24 |
| eglynn | all my synaps wqork is on hold again this (snowed under with downstream work) | 15:24 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: I am going to try to start https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/move-listener-framework-oslo next week | 15:25 |
| * jd__ updated https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/pollster-global-keystone-auth | 15:25 | |
| nijaba | yjiang5_home: should I mark it as started? | 15:25 |
| jd__ | yjiang5_home: great | 15:25 |
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| yjiang5_home | nijaba: I will send patch out possibly early next week. | 15:25 |
| nijaba | yjiang5_home: great ,thanks | 15:25 |
| jd__ | nijaba: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/ceilometer-agent-object-storage still appears in g3, maybe you should remove it? I don't know why it shows | 15:26 |
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| jd__ | I think https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/api-aggregate-average is implemented, dhellmann you confirm? | 15:26 |
| nijaba | jd__: fixed | 15:26 |
| dhellmann | jd__: yes, that's part of the "statistics" endpoint in the v2 api | 15:27 |
| jd__ | marking complete | 15:27 |
| nijaba | perfect | 15:27 |
| jd__ | multi-publisher seems in good shape to me | 15:28 |
| nijaba | eglynn: what about qpid? | 15:28 |
| jd__ | (I think I'm the only one who did a review since a moment now :) | 15:28 |
| yjiang5_home | jd__: thanks for your review. | 15:28 |
| eglynn | nijaba: lets keep that, I'll find time for it next week | 15:28 |
| jd__ | yjiang5_home: I saw you updated it, I'll try to take a look again :) | 15:28 |
| yjiang5_home | jd__: thanks. | 15:29 |
| nijaba | eglynn: great, thanks | 15:29 |
| dhellmann | I'm back online today, so I should have time to look over the multipublisher stuff this afternoon | 15:29 |
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| nijaba | ok, so now we have a TON of bp marked for grizzly with no milstone: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/grizzly | 15:30 |
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| nijaba | I think synaps is going to slide until H | 15:30 |
| * jd__ proposes to tie dhellmann to review.openstack.org | 15:30 | |
| nijaba | eglynn: what's your pov? | 15:30 |
| eglynn | nijaba: agree that a strong possibility | 15:30 |
| nijaba | eglynn: should I remove the target for now? | 15:31 |
| eglynn | (I"m been snowed under with downstream work the last couple weeks) | 15:31 |
| nijaba | we can always chnage back | 15:31 |
| eglynn | fair enough | 15:31 |
| nijaba | perfect, I'll do | 15:31 |
| nijaba | #action nijaba to untarget synaps bp for now | 15:31 |
| nijaba | any other that should be untargetd from grizzly? | 15:32 |
| nijaba | or, which one should we target to g3? | 15:32 |
| nijaba | and i'll untarget the others | 15:32 |
| * dhellmann looks for the bug about sqlalchemy metadata queries | 15:32 | |
| llu-laptop | I think test-db-backends should be done now. | 15:32 |
| dhellmann | we should add https://bugs.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+bug/1098603 | 15:33 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1098603 in ceilometer "need to handle missing units values in existing mongodb data" [Medium,New] | 15:33 |
| dhellmann | and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+bug/1093625 | 15:33 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1093625 in ceilometer "no metaquery implementation in sqlalchemy DB backends" [Medium,Confirmed] | 15:33 |
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| nijaba | dhellmann: +1. would you care to do that? | 15:33 |
| YehiaBeyh | do we want to follow up on the healthnmon/integration proposal in email or do we need a special meeting? | 15:33 |
| dhellmann | that 2nd maybe big | 15:33 |
| jd__ | ah I created a BP for 1093625 this morning :( | 15:34 |
| nijaba | YehiaBeyh: meeting, eventually voice? | 15:34 |
| YehiaBeyh | yes | 15:34 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: done | 15:34 |
| yjiang5_home | nijaba: I think https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/counter-disabling is already in multiple publisher code. | 15:34 |
| sandywalsh | can we be in on that? | 15:34 |
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| nijaba | #action nijaba to propose a doodle for helthmon meeting | 15:34 |
| jd__ | nijaba: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/sqlalchemy-metadata-query FWIW | 15:35 |
| YehiaBeyh | in addition, if we do need to deep dive into this we can propose something for the summit | 15:35 |
| nijaba | yjiang5_home: agreed | 15:35 |
| jd__ | yjiang5_home: yes it is, this is why it's assigned to me, so I can click on Implemented without writing code :-D | 15:35 |
| YehiaBeyh | #action nijaba to propose a doodle for helthmon meeting - what does that mean? | 15:35 |
| sandywalsh | nijaba: can we participate in the voice meeting? | 15:35 |
| nijaba | YehiaBeyh: doodle to pick a date/time that suits most of ut | 15:35 |
| nijaba | s/ut/us | 15:35 |
| yjiang5_home | jd__: :) | 15:36 |
| eglynn | voice, as in G+ hangout or the linkes? | 15:36 |
| YehiaBeyh | that sounds great | 15:36 |
| eglynn | s/linkes/likes/ | 15:36 |
| nijaba | sandywalsh: yes, weĺl share a bridge info once a date/time is picked | 15:36 |
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| sandywalsh | nijaba: thanks | 15:36 |
| divakar | I can setup the meeting.. please do let me know what all wants to be part of that conference call | 15:36 |
| nijaba | np | 15:37 |
| YehiaBeyh | can the list of participant be added to the notes so Divakar can set up the meeting. thx | 15:37 |
| dragondm | i'd like in on that meeting as well. | 15:38 |
| nijaba | divakar: I'll share with you the list of respondant to the doodle | 15:38 |
| jhopper | please include me as well if possible | 15:38 |
| divakar | nijaba: that will be great | 15:38 |
| YehiaBeyh | Thank you nijaba | 15:38 |
| nijaba | just watch the ml for a doodle invite, respond to it, and you will be invited | 15:39 |
| divakar | nijaba: thank you | 15:39 |
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| nijaba | ok, back to the bps, anything else we should clean up? | 15:39 |
| llu-laptop | nijaba: i think test-db-backends should be marked done. | 15:40 |
| jd__ | llu-laptop, nijaba: +1 | 15:40 |
| nijaba | llu-laptop: yup | 15:40 |
| jd__ | good job has been done on this | 15:40 |
| nijaba | hats off | 15:40 |
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| nijaba | ok, let's move on | 15:42 |
| nijaba | #topic open discussion | 15:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:42 | |
| eglynn | FOSDEM planning | 15:42 |
| nijaba | eglynn: very good point! | 15:42 |
| eglynn | IIRC from that mail thread, the plan was ... | 15:42 |
| nijaba | jd__: eglynn and I should have a quick voice call to prep | 15:42 |
| eglynn | nijaba 5mins intro, eglynn 10mins architecture, jd_ 10mins contributing to ceilo | 15:43 |
| nijaba | yup | 15:43 |
| eglynn | are we still good with that split? | 15:43 |
| jd__ | sure | 15:43 |
| nijaba | +1 for me | 15:43 |
| eglynn | cool | 15:43 |
| eglynn | should we aim to have drafts to for review for say Monday? | 15:43 |
| eglynn | (in advance of a call?) | 15:43 |
| dhellmann | this is for a presentation? | 15:43 |
| eglynn | or do the call first? | 15:43 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: yep | 15:43 |
| dhellmann | nice | 15:43 |
| nijaba | eglynn: prep first our slides :) | 15:44 |
| llu-laptop | I saw nova and other openstack projects replaces the nosetest with testr for parellel unittest, shall we follow that fashion? | 15:44 |
| nijaba | then meeting on tue | 15:44 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: https://fosdem.org/2013/schedule/event/openstack_ceilometer/ | 15:44 |
| nijaba | or wed | 15:44 |
| eglynn | nijaba: cool | 15:44 |
| jd__ | llu-laptop: probably, but I've no clue what we should do, I think -infra took care of that so far but I may be wrong | 15:44 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: nice++ | 15:44 |
| yjiang5_home | jhopper: jd__: the idea of against multiple agent is quite interesting, I noticed not big differenece in bin/ceilometer-agent-compute and "bin/ceilometer-agent-central, possibly we can work to merge them? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20123/ can be an preparation for it. | 15:45 |
| dhellmann | llu-laptop: do you have any idea why they didn't just use py.test? | 15:45 |
| jhopper | I absolutely agree | 15:45 |
| danspraggins | +1 on that | 15:45 |
| jhopper | There are numerous de-duplications that we could take advantage of | 15:45 |
| jd__ | yjiang5_home: yeah https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20123/ is about this, exactly, there's minimum difference after | 15:45 |
| jhopper | not to mention provide a more contigious namespace for the agents | 15:45 |
| spn | +1 on that | 15:45 |
| llu-laptop | I think the testr supports parrallel testing | 15:45 |
| jhopper | or rather their flavors | 15:45 |
| dhellmann | llu-laptop: so does py.test | 15:45 |
| llu-laptop | dhellmann: then I don't know why. It just seems that nova/olso/glance/etc. all turns to testr | 15:46 |
| dhellmann | yjiang5_home: it should be possible to create one agent that takes a list of plugin namespaces to use to load pollsters | 15:46 |
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| dhellmann | llu-laptop: ok | 15:46 |
| sandywalsh | why. not. kill. the. agent? | 15:46 |
| dhellmann | sandywalsh: how many times do you want the same answer? | 15:47 |
| llu-laptop | if it's ok, i'd like to help use testr in ceilometer | 15:47 |
| sandywalsh | I haven't heard an answer | 15:47 |
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| dhellmann | sandywalsh: we have 2 agents for different purposes. not everything is about nova. | 15:47 |
| yjiang5_home | dhellmann: yes, that's what we want. | 15:47 |
| dhellmann | sandywalsh: we will also eventually be moving the stats collection out of nova | 15:47 |
| danspraggins | i tend to agree with sandywalsh. why can't we rely on openstack notifications. | 15:47 |
| sandywalsh | dhellmann: then change the underlying project (glance, etc) to use notifications properly | 15:48 |
| danspraggins | for all projects. not just nova. | 15:48 |
| nijaba | danspraggins: have you worked with swift before? | 15:48 |
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| danspraggins | nijaba: i have not. | 15:48 |
| dhellmann | danspraggins: we're moving in that direction, too, but in the mean time... | 15:49 |
| nijaba | danspraggins: unlikely they will accept such a modification | 15:49 |
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| sandywalsh | nijaba: if there is a hard road block on a particular system, then sure, use an agent. But in 90% of the situations, notifications should and can be used. | 15:49 |
| danspraggins | dhellmann: fair enough. | 15:49 |
| nijaba | danspraggins: but yes, this is the edn goal | 15:49 |
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| danspraggins | nijaba: good deal. | 15:49 |
| dragondm | Cool | 15:49 |
| nijaba | but in the meean time. we need to be able to capture what we need NOW | 15:50 |
| danspraggins | nijaba: makes sense. | 15:50 |
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| yjiang5_home | jhopper: I will create a bp for single agent. | 15:51 |
| jhopper | I would be more than happy to cut my teeth on it unless the effort is already spoken for | 15:51 |
| nijaba | dhellmann, jd, eglynn: did you have any proposals for new core devs? | 15:52 |
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| dragondm | I am already looking into what it would take to get nova to emit the needed stats. | 15:52 |
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| nijaba | dragondm: thanks! | 15:52 |
| jd__ | dragondm: great | 15:52 |
| thomasbiege | hi | 15:52 |
| sandywalsh | anyone use uses oslo, should be willing to use notifications | 15:52 |
| sandywalsh | s/use/who/ | 15:53 |
| nijaba | sandywalsh: yup | 15:53 |
| jd__ | anything else for open topic? | 15:53 |
| dragondm | (ill see abt writing up some bp's for nova & ceilio to that end) | 15:53 |
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| yjiang5_home | dragondm: There is some discussion about get data from nova in mailing list and some challenge. | 15:53 |
| sandywalsh | how about adopting the HACKING guide? | 15:53 |
| nijaba | jd__: we are on core dev proposals | 15:53 |
| jhopper | yjiang5_home: rather the work required to implement the bp | 15:54 |
| yjiang5_home | dragondm: s/is/was/ | 15:54 |
| jd__ | nijaba: sorry missed your question :) likely yjiang5_home | 15:54 |
| eglynn | nijaba: re new core devs, I'd propose yjiang5_home if he's willing | 15:54 |
| dragondm | yjiang5_home: yup, been following. | 15:54 |
| eglynn | also I think llu-laptop has been doing great work | 15:55 |
| eglynn | (if he's willing also ...) | 15:55 |
| nijaba | in which case, with yjiang5_home approval, I'll start a formal mail thread for approval | 15:55 |
| dhellmann | +1 to both yjiang5_home and llu-laptop | 15:55 |
| yjiang5_home | jd__: eglynn: dragondm: really thanks | 15:55 |
| jd__ | +1 eglynn for llu-laptop | 15:55 |
| nijaba | ditto for llu-laptop | 15:55 |
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| jd__ | thanks for your #action nijaba :-) | 15:56 |
| nijaba | #action nijaba to formaly start ml thread about core dev startus for yjiang5_home and llu-laptop | 15:56 |
| llu-laptop | thanks, I'd love to | 15:56 |
| nijaba | sounds like a done deal, but we have to follow the official process | 15:56 |
| jd__ | indeed | 15:57 |
| nijaba | ok, looks like we've ran out of off topics :) | 15:57 |
| sandywalsh | how about adopting the HACKING guide? | 15:57 |
| nijaba | sandywalsh: ?? | 15:57 |
| yjiang5_home | sandywalsh: you mean like coding style etc? | 15:58 |
| dhellmann | #link https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/HACKING.rst | 15:58 |
| dragondm | I think he means nova's code guidelines | 15:58 |
| sandywalsh | https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/HACKING.rst | 15:58 |
| sandywalsh | yup, import order, etc | 15:58 |
| dhellmann | I think we've been trying to follow that, but it would be good to go through and make sure now that we're incubated | 15:58 |
| nijaba | good point for a ml discussion? | 15:58 |
| sandywalsh | makes code reviews easier when coming over from other projects | 15:58 |
| nijaba | sandywalsh: do yiou want to start the thread? | 15:59 |
| sandywalsh | sure | 15:59 |
| nijaba | thanks | 15:59 |
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| nijaba | #action sandywalsh to start a thread about adopting https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/HACKING.rst | 15:59 |
| nijaba | ok, we are out of time | 15:59 |
| nijaba | thanks a lot everyone! | 15:59 |
| nijaba | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jan 24 16:00:02 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-01-24-15.00.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-01-24-15.00.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-01-24-15.00.log.html | 16:00 |
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| jaypipes | #startmeeting qa | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jan 24 17:00:18 2013 UTC. The chair is jaypipes. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'qa' | 17:00 |
| afrittoli | hi | 17:00 |
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| mtreinish | <-- here | 17:00 |
| jaypipes | afazekas, davidkranz, mtreinish, sdague, afrittoli: morning | 17:00 |
| jaypipes | mlavalle: morning miguel | 17:01 |
| jaypipes | jeblair, clarkb, mordred: morning to you guys too :) | 17:01 |
| mlavalle | jaypipes: good morning to everybody | 17:01 |
| koolhead17 | morning jaypipes :) | 17:01 |
| * afazekas is here | 17:01 | |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: Morning, barely | 17:01 |
| jaypipes | koolhead17: mornin! | 17:01 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: :) | 17:01 |
| afrittoli | morning everyone | 17:01 |
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| jaypipes | OK, so shall we start with a status report of open reviews? | 17:02 |
| jaypipes | #topic Open reviews | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open reviews (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:02 | |
| jaypipes | #link https://review.openstack.org/#q,status:open+project:openstack/tempest,n,z | 17:02 |
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| jaypipes | mtreinish: let's start with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20042/ | 17:03 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: mornin. | 17:03 |
| mtreinish | jaypipes: ok | 17:03 |
| dwalleck | jaypipes: Heya. Sorry, I'm back from the wormhole I've been stuck in | 17:03 |
| jaypipes | mtreinish: I know there's been some discussion with a number of folks about the xml/json split | 17:03 |
| davidkranz | dwalleck: Hi Daryl! | 17:03 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: no worries :) | 17:04 |
| mtreinish | I should probably abandon that since the whole xml split discussion | 17:04 |
| jaypipes | mtreinish: including the email between sdague, jeblair and yourself | 17:04 |
| jaypipes | mtreinish: want to summarize the conclusion/decision on that? | 17:04 |
| * jaypipes curious | 17:04 | |
| mtreinish | jaypipes: I don't think we've reached a conclusion yet. :) | 17:05 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: I think there are a few issues along the lines of "should we wait for testr" or do something simple now for speedup. | 17:05 |
| mtreinish | davidkranz: yeah that seems to be the consensus. We also don't have any data on how much of a speedup this gives. | 17:05 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: I see. and what are people's thoughts? wait for testr or move forward with something? | 17:05 |
| sdague | sorry, mostly not here because of other meetings, but I'll throw in a few | 17:06 |
| davidkranz | It's hard to answer that given the uncertainty about when testr wil be on line for real with no flakies. | 17:06 |
| mtreinish | I think it would help to know how fast we need to get full to use it for gate | 17:06 |
| sdague | if jeblair is ok with gating at the current time running, I'd say turn on the gate now | 17:06 |
| sdague | and it will get better with testr | 17:06 |
| dwalleck | I'm out of sync, but I don't see why splitting it now would hurt. | 17:06 |
| sdague | testr for g-3 is still the plan | 17:07 |
| mtreinish | dwalleck: jeblair said that since we would be duplicating jenkins jobs it puts too much strain on the ci resources | 17:07 |
| dwalleck | Just my opinion, but I don't see the need to run the XML job on each run. That's something I have configured to run daily in a separate job | 17:07 |
| davidkranz | I am still concerend of a negative reaction from PTLs on having 20+ minutes of nova testing added to all projects. | 17:07 |
| sdague | it's more about configuration explosion | 17:07 |
| davidkranz | dwalleck: We could put it in the hourly run. | 17:07 |
| sdague | it's got to be in gate | 17:07 |
| sdague | otherwise you chase bugs for weeks | 17:07 |
| sdague | look at postgresql | 17:08 |
| jaypipes | agreed. | 17:08 |
| sdague | I basically play cat and mouse to keep that running | 17:08 |
| sdague | it's mostly not | 17:08 |
| dwalleck | I'd be concerned if the PTL's concern is increasing run time for the sake of good testing. If it's really necessary, we could find a way to make it work | 17:08 |
| davidkranz | sdague: Right. But we can't put *everything* in gate in the long run or perhaps even sooner. We have to make choices. | 17:08 |
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| davidkranz | I'm fine with turning it on now but that is only a short-term solution I think. | 17:09 |
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| sdague | davidkranz: so I'd say lets get that floated to the PTLs | 17:09 |
| jaypipes | what are the remaining steps needed to get testr doing the gate? | 17:09 |
| sdague | jaypipes: first the testtools conversion | 17:09 |
| sdague | Ivan's got some reviews out there for that WIP, assistance on those would be good | 17:10 |
| sdague | after that it can run on testr or nose | 17:10 |
| sdague | then it's just shaking out the flakies | 17:10 |
| sdague | and figure out how to do attrs in testr | 17:10 |
| jaypipes | sdague: this one? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20364/ | 17:10 |
| sdague | lifeless and cyeoh are going to pound some of that out at LCA next week | 17:10 |
| sdague | jaypipes: yep | 17:11 |
| jaypipes | sdague: ok, excellent. | 17:11 |
| afazekas | sdague: if we import testtools everywhere it will be testtools dependent | 17:11 |
| jaypipes | sdague: can we work with jeblair to get a job (non-voting) added to the gate that runs tempest with testr? | 17:11 |
| lifeless | o/ | 17:12 |
| sdague | jaypipes: yes, once it gets "close" | 17:12 |
| jaypipes | sdague: instead of nosetest-dependent? :) | 17:12 |
| sdague | it's a little too broken right now | 17:12 |
| jaypipes | lifeless: mornin. | 17:12 |
| sdague | but this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20364/ is the important next step | 17:12 |
| sdague | so eyes on that is important | 17:12 |
| jaypipes | ok, will do that review today. | 17:13 |
| dwalleck | I'll take a peek this afternoon | 17:13 |
| jaypipes | there's a number of reviews from nayna, ravi, and rajalakshmi that deserve a review. | 17:13 |
| jaypipes | they are not big reviews, so if we could hammer through those, that would be great | 17:14 |
| jaypipes | gets them off the review list, which is getting long | 17:14 |
| afazekas | The nose import just used for the skip exception and for the attributes | 17:14 |
| davidkranz | I asked ogelbukh to review the container-sync change. But we could approve it without that. | 17:14 |
| afazekas | they are very small code pieces | 17:15 |
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| jaypipes | afazekas: can you elaborate on what you don't like about testtools? | 17:15 |
| sdague | afazekas: yeh, skip is easy, attr is more interesting because of how testr works. So that will require testr changes as well | 17:15 |
| sdague | but lifeless and cyeoh will figure out something :) | 17:15 |
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| davidkranz | dwalleck: Can you give the final review for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/19460/ based on your comments? | 17:15 |
| dwalleck | Sure, will pull that up now | 17:16 |
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| * sdague sadly needs to drop, battery running out in another meeting | 17:17 | |
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| afazekas | jaypipes: I do not have any problem with it, I just wanted to say we are not really nose dependent at the moment, and we don't use really nose specific features | 17:17 |
| jaypipes | sdague: ok, ciao | 17:17 |
| chunwang | I want to know whether the race problem is resolved when tempest changed to parallel tests. | 17:17 |
| afrittoli | regarding skip and attr it would be great if whatever we do we do not lose compatibility with nose | 17:17 |
| dwalleck | chunwang: I think we should only have race conditions in tests if people built assumptions/dependencies into their test. I know I've avoided that like the plague | 17:18 |
| jaypipes | chunwang: that is what we are currently discussing... we are hoping that a move to base our test cases on testresources.ResourcedTestCase and testtools.TestCase will enable parallel execution | 17:18 |
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| davidkranz | afazekas: 'attr' is nose-specific | 17:18 |
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| jaypipes | afrittoli: we should be able to keep "compatibility", yes, but nose's multi-process plugin is badly broken. | 17:19 |
| afazekas | davidkranz: probably it just 5 line decorator | 17:19 |
| jaypipes | afrittoli: thus, we've been investigating and prototyping using testresources for parallel execution. | 17:19 |
| chunwang | ok, got it. | 17:19 |
| afazekas | basically it is the same as classname.attribute = "something" | 17:19 |
| jaypipes | right. | 17:19 |
| jaypipes | and I think we all agree the @attr decorator is quite useful\ | 17:20 |
| jaypipes | for indicating which tests are smoke, negative, etc | 17:20 |
| afrittoli | jaypipes: for non-gating runs it may be worth still using nose, it comes with some nice features such as xmlunit plugin | 17:20 |
| dwalleck | jaypipes: ++. I love my attrs | 17:20 |
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| donaldngo | I like the xmlunit output as well | 17:20 |
| davidkranz | The question I think is whether we use testr and take full advantage of lifeless in our midst, or try to remain compatible with various other runners. | 17:20 |
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| jaypipes | afrittoli: AFAIK, testr does as well... but regardless, we don't plan on making tempest unrunnable in nose... | 17:21 |
| jaypipes | afrittoli: it's just the parallel plugin part that we can't use | 17:21 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: Sure. But if testr works great and in parallel, why would some one want to use nose? | 17:21 |
| afrittoli | jaypipes: great thanks | 17:21 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: I would say we SHOULD take advantage of having lifeless in our midst, but continue to allow tempest to be run (in a single process) with nose | 17:22 |
| dwalleck | jaypipes: testr is also compatable with the basic python unittest class as well, right? | 17:22 |
| mtreinish | davidkranz: debug output... | 17:22 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: meh, I personally won't, but if someone really like nose... | 17:22 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: yes | 17:22 |
| davidkranz | mtreinish: Maybe testr should support debug output... | 17:22 |
| mtreinish | davidkranz: it has it, it's just a bit harder to follow then nose | 17:22 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: it does, using addDetail() | 17:22 |
| afazekas | jaypipes: Probably __init__ usage instead of setup_packege could fix the nose parallel, I would'n be surprised if the testresource addition also fixed it | 17:23 |
| jaypipes | right, mtreinish | 17:23 |
| davidkranz | So let's stay the course and if a compelling testr-only issue comes up we can re-evaluate. | 17:23 |
| jaypipes | afazekas: https://github.com/nose-devs/nose/issues/550 | 17:23 |
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| jaypipes | afazekas: I reported the bug 6 months ago, then 4 months ago when they moved to Github issues, and still no answer. | 17:24 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 6 in launchpad ""next 10 entries" at bottom of page" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/6 | 17:24 |
| mtreinish | jaypipes: that sure got a lot of attention | 17:24 |
| jaypipes | mtreinish: :( yeah. | 17:24 |
| jaypipes | anyway, so to summarize on this particular topic, we are aiming to have parallel execution of tempest with testr --parallel by the G-3 milestone release. | 17:25 |
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| afazekas | jaypipes: Probably I can trace what happened, if you need it | 17:25 |
| jaypipes | and we aim to keep things nose-compatible for single-process runs. | 17:25 |
| ravikumar_hp | jaypipes: testr in conjuction with testtools or base Python unittests | 17:26 |
| jaypipes | afazekas: I'm pretty sure testr is a better solution, to be honest... and the lack of feedback on nose issues is a big problem for me. | 17:26 |
| chunwang | then is there a target date to ask all new script to follow testtools format? | 17:26 |
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| jaypipes | chunwang: so there is a patch here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20364/ | 17:26 |
| jaypipes | chunwang: that changes the base test case classes to support testtools | 17:27 |
| jaypipes | chunwang: I'd imagine that we will make a step-wise process, with the first phase meaning no changes to individual test case classes (only to base classes) | 17:27 |
| jaypipes | chunwang: and then slowly make changes for resource tracking in a way that will allow testr --parallel to work most effectively | 17:28 |
| chunwang | jaypipes: ok | 17:28 |
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| jaypipes | chunwang: short answer: probably will be happening gradually over next few weeks | 17:28 |
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| afazekas | jaypipes: I can live without nose. | 17:28 |
| lifeless | dwalleck: testr is a meta-runner - it runs a language specific runner; for openstack thats subunit.run, which subclasses testtools.run, and we treat incompatability with stock unittest as bugs [with a couple of opinionated differences :)] | 17:28 |
| lifeless | dwalleck: so you can most definitely run tests with regular unittest - or just testtools.run, for interactive drop-into-a-debugger hacking | 17:29 |
| dwalleck | Cool, that was my understanding. Thanks! | 17:29 |
| lifeless | dwalleck: I do that all the time; I have plans to add a tunneled-debug mode to subunit and testr, just ETIME> | 17:29 |
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| afazekas | Can someone confirm the gate VM's has just only one CPU ? | 17:29 |
| jaypipes | jeblair: ^^ ? | 17:29 |
| dwalleck | For the rax VM, it's a 4 GB instance, right? | 17:30 |
| * dwalleck goes to check his charts | 17:30 | |
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| jaypipes | dwalleck: not sure | 17:30 |
| afazekas | I am guessing the flaky issue happens, because the guest VM waiting on disk I/O in kernel mode, and it causes time-outs in the network layer too | 17:30 |
| dwalleck | From what I saw in the logs it was a 4 GB instance....RAX 4 GB instance should have 2 vCPUs | 17:31 |
| afazekas | I guess the wait time is more than 5 sec very frequently | 17:31 |
| jaypipes | k | 17:31 |
| jaypipes | getting back on track here... | 17:31 |
| dwalleck | Though if I sold my group on bumping to an 8 GB that would be 4 cores | 17:31 |
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| jaypipes | do we have any other business to discuss besides open reviews and testr? | 17:32 |
| jaypipes | personally, I'm a bit disappointed we still don't have good quantum coverage... | 17:33 |
| ravikumar_hp | jaypipes: we are planning to add | 17:33 |
| mlavalle | jaypipes: I am implementing one of the BP's you approved a couple of weeks ago | 17:33 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: There are some quantum tests but they seem to not run anywhere. | 17:33 |
| chunwang | When parallel execution implemented, I suppose the stress test case in tempest will be easier. Is there any plan for tempest to cover more stress test cases or any performance related test? | 17:33 |
| jaypipes | mlavalle: that is good news, thx! | 17:34 |
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| davidkranz | jaypipes: Not even ini the quantum run on tempest commits. | 17:34 |
| jaypipes | mlavalle: are you coordinating with ravikumar_hp? | 17:34 |
| mlavalle | jaypipes: I haven't talked to him | 17:34 |
| mlavalle | but I'll reach out | 17:34 |
| jaypipes | mlavalle: please do :) | 17:34 |
| ravikumar_hp | jaypipes: I think to start with we have some coverage for quantum that some tests need to be gated tests | 17:34 |
| jaypipes | ravikumar_hp: agreed completely. but which ones? | 17:35 |
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| ravikumar_hp | jaypipes: I will check and work wiith mlavalle | 17:35 |
| ravikumar_hp | identity gaps and new tests and gated tests | 17:36 |
| afrittoli | jaypipes: some more basic quantum tests were merged today https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20023/ those should be good candidate for gating | 17:36 |
| dwalleck | I have tests that I wouldn't call stress, more like benchmarks, that I'd like to submit somewhere. They're of the form I build x servers in y time with z success rate, or that previous scenario and then resized as well and that success rate, and so on | 17:36 |
| jaypipes | ravikumar_hp: k, sounds good. | 17:36 |
| jaypipes | afrittoli: ok. are they smoke tests or not? | 17:36 |
| mlavalle | jaypipes: this is the BP I am implementing right now https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/quantum-basic-api | 17:37 |
| jaypipes | ebcause because the devstack-vm-quantum-gate seems to only be executing smoke tests... http://logs.openstack.org/20182/5/check/gate-tempest-devstack-vm-quantum/2605/console.html | 17:37 |
| jaypipes | mlavalle: understood. | 17:37 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: want to add those in a new directly somewhere? | 17:37 |
| ravikumar_hp | jaypipes: yes. Those tests are hp .. | 17:37 |
| afrittoli | jaypipes: yes I'd say so they're basic ops, but they have no smoke attr | 17:37 |
| jaypipes | directory... | 17:37 |
| ravikumar_hp | right now it is not tagged as gated tests | 17:38 |
| dwalleck | jaypipes: Yeah, I can do that, and then figure if there's somewhere else better they belong | 17:38 |
| davidkranz | chunwang: I don't think you want to run stress tests in the ci environment. | 17:39 |
| jaypipes | All: so I think the first step here is to have a devstack-vm-quantum-tempest-full job that gets run on commits to tempest. | 17:39 |
| davidkranz | chunwang: Also, the logs are too strewn with errors to make them useful. | 17:39 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: yes indeed. | 17:39 |
| davidkranz | chunwang: errors that are not really errors, that is. | 17:39 |
| davidkranz | chunwang: We are told the log issue will get some attention after g-3. | 17:40 |
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| jaypipes | OK, so then I will ask some of the CI folks to work with afrittoli, ravikumar_hp and mlavalle to enable a FULL tempest run with a quantum-enabled devstack VM on commits to tempest. | 17:40 |
| jaypipes | jeblair: ping | 17:40 |
| clarkb | jaypipes: pong (he is on australia time at the moment) | 17:40 |
| jaypipes | clarkb: ah, of course.. | 17:41 |
| clarkb | I can write up the change to do full tempset with quantum on tempest commits | 17:41 |
| jaypipes | clarkb: think you can work with those guys to change the gate-tempest-devstack-vm-quantum to run all the tests, not just smoke? | 17:41 |
| jaypipes | clarkb: thanks man, appreciated. | 17:41 |
| jaypipes | that will at least get the full test suite running against an env with quantum... even if the quantum network API tests are not fully done yet | 17:42 |
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| jaypipes | alright, anything else from folks before we wrap up here? | 17:43 |
| jaypipes | #topic open discussion | 17:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:43 | |
| afrittoli | any plan to enable xmlunit for periodic runs? | 17:44 |
| dwalleck | One minor thing. For the Tempest devstack jobs, would it be possible to output the xunit results and have Jenkins format them? Looking through a failed Tempest reasons is a bit painful right now | 17:44 |
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| davidkranz | jaypipes: How do we move on the issue of turning on the gate for all projects? | 17:44 |
| davidkranz | jaypipes: We should get PTL input but what is the best way to do that? | 17:44 |
| chunwang | davidkranz: absolutely. actually what I mean is whether there is any attempt to use tempest for any more stress test cases, enhance current cases and add something like performance test... | 17:45 |
| davidkranz | chunwang: That would be desirable. | 17:45 |
| afrittoli | dwalleck: +1 also jenkins trends help finding out flaky tests | 17:46 |
| lifeless | afrittoli: if xmlunit is junitxml compatible output, you can do that by post-processing the subunit stream testr captures. | 17:46 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: not sure, to be frank. I think we need to send an email to the -dev list that basically says "we are proposing to turn on the full tempest gate for all projects. This means an increased time of X minutes." | 17:46 |
| lifeless | afrittoli: however! CI team have found jenkins is too slow at loading xmlunit data, so they just convert directly to html | 17:46 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: if we are confident that the flakies have been solved, I can send that email out. | 17:47 |
| lifeless | afrittoli: so AIUI - and clarkb can confirm - we don't, and can't with jenkins today, use its unit test tracking features. | 17:47 |
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| davidkranz | jaypipes: OK, great. The issue is whether we should do anything else to decrease time in the short term like skipping some slow tests or a job breakout. | 17:47 |
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| davidkranz | jaypipes: I'm fine going with what we've got and waiting for testr. | 17:48 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: I say we propose the full gate now, and gradually improve the runtime of tempest. | 17:48 |
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| davidkranz | So be it. | 17:48 |
| dwalleck | I think skipping tests to decrease run time would be a risky move. Would re-categorizing tests based on priority and severity make more sense? | 17:48 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz: and so it shall be. | 17:49 |
| afrittoli | lifeless: oh, that's a pity, but thanks for the clarification | 17:49 |
| clarkb | lifeless: thats correct, jenkins keeps everything on disk and asking it to track lots of info like that turns it into molasses | 17:49 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: agreed | 17:49 |
| ravikumar_hp | dwalleck: +1 | 17:49 |
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| jaypipes | OK, I will send the email to the -dev list and PTLs then. | 17:49 |
| afrittoli | dwalleck: +1 | 17:49 |
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| jaypipes | anything more to discuss today? | 17:49 |
| dwalleck | portland sounds cold | 17:49 |
| jaypipes | #action jaypipes to write email to -dev list proposing full tempest gate | 17:50 |
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| jaypipes | OK, ciao everyone. | 17:50 |
| jaypipes | #endmeeting | 17:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 17:50 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jan 24 17:50:32 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:50 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-01-24-17.00.html | 17:50 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-01-24-17.00.txt | 17:50 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-01-24-17.00.log.html | 17:50 |
| mlavalle | Have a nice day! | 17:50 |
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| afrittoli | ciao | 17:52 |
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| bdpayne | #startmeeting OpenStack Security Group | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jan 24 18:00:17 2013 UTC. The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group' | 18:00 |
| bdpayne | good morning / evening to everyone | 18:00 |
| bdpayne | welcome to the first security group meeting | 18:00 |
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| bdpayne | I'd like to start with a few house keeping items... | 18:01 |
| bdpayne | #topic House Keeping | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "House Keeping (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:01 | |
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| bdpayne | We're using the MeetBot for auto generated mintues | 18:01 |
| bdpayne | #link http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot | 18:02 |
| bdpayne | We'll have weekly meetings, starting today | 18:02 |
| mtesauro | Where are we archiving those minutes? | 18:02 |
| bdpayne | #info Meetings should last 30 min (or less) | 18:02 |
| bdpayne | #info I'll post the meeting minutes online after each meeting | 18:03 |
| bdpayne | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/OpenStackSecurity | 18:03 |
| mtesauro | Perfect. Thanks. | 18:03 |
| bdpayne | #info I encourage everyone to subscribe to the mailing list, if you haven't already: openstack-ossg@lists.launchpad.net | 18:03 |
| bdpayne | you can do this through the launchpad group | 18:04 |
| bdpayne | #link https://launchpad.net/~openstack-ossg | 18:04 |
| bdpayne | we'll talk more about the mailing list in a few... | 18:04 |
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| bdpayne | so, before we dive into other topics, let's do some introductions | 18:04 |
| bdpayne | #topic Introductions | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Introductions (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:05 | |
| bdpayne | I can start | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | #info Many of you have met me at the summit / online… I'm Bryan Payne and I'm working at Nebula… OpenStack and related security tasks are my day to day job | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | who else do we have joining us today? | 18:06 |
| hyakuhei | #info Security Architect at HP. Started OSSG with Bryan. Speaking at summits etc. | 18:06 |
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| bdpayne | morning @hyakuhei | 18:07 |
| mtesauro | #info I'm Matt Tesauro, I am the lead of the product security engineers at Rackspace. Was at the last summit and will be at the next. OpenStack is also part of my normal work with Rackspce | 18:07 |
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| bdpayne | nice to have you hear Matt | 18:07 |
| lauraglendenning | #info I'm Laura Glendenning, I'm a software developer at JHU Applied Physics Lab and am currently leading our OpenStack project here. I was at the last summit and my team is working on security-related features. | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | anyone else here today? I heard from several others that planned on attending | 18:08 |
| estebang9 | #info Esteban Gutierrez, IT security for Intel. Working on security requirements for openstack deployments. | 18:08 |
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| malini | Greetings everyone! I am Malini Bhandaru from Intel, and my focus is security too | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | great, I was planning to talk about some Intel and APL work later in the meeting, you guys can keep me honest | 18:08 |
| alrs | #info I'm Lars Lehtonen, I'm mostly working around Swift in our deployment right now. | 18:08 |
| Randy_Perryman | Greetings, Randy Perryman with Dell. Work on the Crowbar Team doing actual Deployments of Openstack in the field. | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | ok, looks like we have a nice group… thank for the introductions all | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | let's dive into some topics | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | #topic Mailing list | 18:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mailing list (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:09 | |
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| bdpayne | #info We currently have a mailing list setup on launchpad, but there is a move afoot to change this to a mailman list | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | @hyakuhei, can you report on the status for that? | 18:10 |
| hyakuhei | #info In progress. It got lots in the summit setup noise - I'll email Stefano about it again. | 18:11 |
| bdpayne | sounds good | 18:11 |
| mtesauro | Is this Mailman list OpenStack hosted? | 18:11 |
| bdpayne | yeah | 18:11 |
| sriramhere | do we need a separate mailing list? [OSSG] won't work with dev? | 18:11 |
| bdpayne | the idea here is to allow for integration with the bug tracking system | 18:11 |
| bdpayne | so bugs can be marked "security" and we will get a notification | 18:12 |
| bdpayne | chatter can happen on dev or on our list, as people see fit | 18:12 |
| sriramhere | ok - nice. how many bugs do we have? last I checked, we had three | 18:12 |
| hyakuhei | That allows us to build out some pretty cool security tooling. | 18:12 |
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| hyakuhei | Those are OSN bugs, that's a bit different. That's us using Launchpad for Security notes. | 18:13 |
| bdpayne | right | 18:13 |
| bdpayne | in the future, we'll get notified (hopefully) of bugs and patches that are security relevant and could benefit from review by someone in this group | 18:13 |
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| bdpayne | ok, so moving on... | 18:13 |
| sriramhere | ok | 18:13 |
| bdpayne | #topic Security Notes | 18:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Security Notes (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:13 | |
| bdpayne | #info We have been asked to occasionally provide "Security Notes" for the OpenStack community | 18:14 |
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| bdpayne | this is lightweight security configuration guidance | 18:14 |
| hyakuhei | These are like advisories for configuration / common things people do wrong that compromises the security of their OpenStack deployment. | 18:14 |
| bdpayne | perhaps not quite a CVE, but best practices | 18:14 |
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| Randy_Perryman | So a Security FAQ page? | 18:15 |
| mtesauro | so basically bits of what would be a hardening guide? | 18:15 |
| hyakuhei | No. | 18:15 |
| bdpayne | there is one note already in progress | 18:15 |
| bdpayne | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/osn/+bug/1098582 | 18:15 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1098582 in osn "Note: Security impact of Libvirt/LXC usage" [High,Confirmed] | 18:15 |
| mtesauro | That is the one from last week, right? | 18:15 |
| bdpayne | that's right | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | largely these will be little advisories to help people make good decisions | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | #info these are designed to be more timely than the security guide… and sometime that we can produce on demand and/or as we see the need | 18:16 |
| Randy_Perryman | Thank You for the clarification. | 18:16 |
| sriramhere | do we have a link to the work in progress? | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | that's the link above | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | that is for the LXC security note… I would encourage everyone to take a pass and provide some feedback | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | we'd like to get that one out the door soon | 18:17 |
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| bdpayne | apparently many people are using LXC's and thinking that they are getting KVM style isolation… but they aren't, of course | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | #topic Security Guide | 18:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Security Guide (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:18 | |
| sriramhere | thanks - what is the plan for arriving a template? does this need to wait for a common agreed templat for OSN? | 18:19 |
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| estebang9 | Could a list of live items such as that one above exist as a list on the main security group page? This would be a list of "hot" items. | 18:19 |
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| bdpayne | #info @hyakuhei has put together a repo and some initial templates for the security guide | 18:19 |
| bdpayne | yeah, let's speak to those questions | 18:19 |
| hyakuhei | I see that very much being in the bootstrap stage. | 18:20 |
| bdpayne | the template is basically to have a nice common way to present this info | 18:20 |
| bdpayne | work there is needed, but we didn't want to hold up getting the first note out for that | 18:20 |
| sriramhere | so, plan looks like first OSN will be out, while the template will be in work. | 18:20 |
| bdpayne | contributions are certainly welcome in putting together template for that… probably just a simple plain text format that will work for email / web site posting | 18:20 |
| mtesauro | Bootstracp is fine as long as we don't preclude future growth in its implementation. Better to iterate to what works best for all | 18:20 |
| sriramhere | hopefully from second one, we can follow the template. | 18:21 |
| bdpayne | that's right | 18:21 |
| bdpayne | as for putting items on the website, I think that makes sense | 18:21 |
| bdpayne | we should put together a section for that | 18:21 |
| sriramhere | hyakuhei - can u point to the wip for template please? so that we can provide feebadk | 18:21 |
| hyakuhei | OSN template or Hardening Guide? | 18:22 |
| sriramhere | template | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | OSN template and related -- https://bugs.launchpad.net/osn | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/osn | 18:22 |
| hyakuhei | It's largely captured in the LXC note linked previously. | 18:23 |
| * bdpayne changed the topic too quickly ;-) | 18:23 | |
| hyakuhei | Basically MD with whatever topics made sense. | 18:23 |
| bdpayne | ok… moving on to discuss hardening guide | 18:23 |
| bdpayne | #link https://github.com/hyakuhei/OSSG_Hardening_Guide | 18:24 |
| bdpayne | this is the git repo with the skel latex code for the guide | 18:24 |
| bdpayne | #info Note the outline.txt file as a first cut at the guide outline | 18:24 |
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| bdpayne | #action We should review that outline and get happy with it so that we can begin working on the writing as a group | 18:25 |
| hyakuhei | Yeah, there's virtually no content right now but it's easy to see how this could build out to be something incredibly useful to the community. | 18:25 |
| bdpayne | Exactly | 18:25 |
| hyakuhei | Please excuse the shonky makefile... | 18:25 |
| estebang9 | Looks like a good start though. | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | I see that we are running a little short on time… I'd like to push through a couple of additional topics in our last 5 min | 18:26 |
| sriramhere | may be i missed it - what is the goal for the hardening guide? hows it differnt from OSN? | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | ah, sorry... | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | hardening guide is designed to be a single document with advice for deploying OS securely | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | whereas the OSN's are one off security best practice advice… more timely | 18:26 |
| sriramhere | ok - do we plan to include any internal notes (known threats. mitigations etc) in this? or is it for external users? | 18:27 |
| mtesauro | Presumably the audience in OpenStack implementors, correct? | 18:27 |
| bdpayne | @mtesauro that's correct | 18:27 |
| bdpayne | @sriramhere not sure what you mean, audience will be cloud implementors / cloud admins that are working with OS | 18:28 |
| sriramhere | i got the answer; what i meant to say is, if we know of a known threat, we will still publish it, so that cloud admins can be aware of that | 18:28 |
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| bdpayne | ok, just a few final mentions here | 18:28 |
| sriramhere | and possibly incorporate our mitigation ideas | 18:28 |
| bdpayne | that will have to be handled on a case by case basis | 18:29 |
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| bdpayne | in general, I would say we provide advice to deploy in a way that offeres layered security and helps mitigate attacks | 18:29 |
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| sriramhere | thanks | 18:29 |
| mtesauro | One additional item, not on the agenda... | 18:30 |
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| mtesauro | #info Beyond my work with OpenStack, I'm also heavily involved in OWASP - International OpenSource Foundation working on application security | 18:30 |
| mtesauro | #info I have just started an OWASP OpenStack Security project with the goal of bringing the two communities together. | 18:30 |
| bdpayne | sorry, my irc connection just hicup'd | 18:31 |
| mtesauro | There's an Apache-like approval process with OWASP projects which will close at COB today (central time US GMT-6) | 18:31 |
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| bdpayne | @mtesauro Any specific proposals for OS? | 18:31 |
| hyakuhei | @mtesauro That's interesting. | 18:31 |
| mtesauro | After that, I'll be actively recruiting from the OWASP community to add to the OSSG work. | 18:31 |
| estebang9 | @mtesauro, I take it you have that created on the OWASP site? and will it be Appsec focused? | 18:31 |
| sriramhere | bpayne - u had few final mentions, | 18:31 |
| bdpayne | yeah, we are basically out of time | 18:32 |
| bdpayne | let me just close this out and we can have more discussion next week | 18:32 |
| mtesauro | After the approval completes today, there will be a OWASP project page on their site + mail list for the project. | 18:32 |
| estebang9 | I assume we can take items to the mailing list as well? | 18:32 |
| bdpayne | #topic Storage Encryption | 18:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Storage Encryption (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:32 | |
| mtesauro | will link that to OSSG as well | 18:32 |
| estebang9 | groovy | 18:33 |
| mtesauro | There's a bunch of app sec people at OWASP which could lend a hand with OpenStack work | 18:33 |
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| bdpayne | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/swift/+spec/encrypted-objects | 18:35 |
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| bdpayne | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/encrypt-cinder-volumes | 18:35 |
| bdpayne | both of those are worth getting some eyes from this group | 18:35 |
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| bdpayne | we should discuss more on the mailing list and at next week's meeting | 18:35 |
| malini | Thank you!!! Would appreciate feedback | 18:35 |
| bdpayne | #info that's all I had for today… thanks everyone for attending! | 18:36 |
| benj__ | Additional storage encryption info here http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-January/004439.html | 18:36 |
| bdpayne | #endmeeting | 18:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 18:36 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jan 24 18:36:27 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:36 |
| estebang9 | thanks! | 18:36 |
| malini | benj: thank you for link, will look | 18:36 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-01-24-18.00.html | 18:36 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-01-24-18.00.txt | 18:36 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-01-24-18.00.log.html | 18:36 |
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| thomasbiege | re | 18:39 |
| thomasbiege | uhm, too late | 18:39 |
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| russellb | #startmeeting nova | 21:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jan 24 21:04:05 2013 UTC. The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 21:04 |
| russellb | #chair vishy | 21:04 |
| openstack | Current chairs: russellb vishy | 21:04 |
| russellb | Hi! | 21:04 |
| russellb | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/Nova | 21:04 |
| russellb | who's around | 21:04 |
| hemna | howdy | 21:04 |
| vishy | o/ | 21:04 |
| alaski | hi | 21:04 |
| krtaylor | o/ | 21:05 |
| russellb | cool ... grizzly-3 first, shall we? | 21:05 |
| russellb | #topic grizzly-3 | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "grizzly-3 (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:05 | |
| russellb | #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/grizzly-3 | 21:05 |
| toanster | hello | 21:05 |
| cburgess | here | 21:05 |
| rmk | here | 21:05 |
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| kmartin | hello | 21:05 |
| jog0 | o/ | 21:06 |
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| russellb | 44 blueprints targeted for grizzly-3, most not done yet | 21:06 |
| russellb | anyone have updates on status for these? | 21:06 |
| russellb | if you're assigned one, make sure the status reflects reality | 21:06 |
| rmk | I'm actually working on one that isn't submitted yet, which is redoing libvirt snapshots to eliminate instance downtime. | 21:06 |
| hemna | I submitted a patch for my FiberChannel BP | 21:06 |
| russellb | and if you know one isn't going to make it, speak up so we can update accordingly | 21:07 |
| hemna | doing a small rework currently from feedback. | 21:07 |
| alaski | Instance actions is churning through patchsets, but should be done in time. | 21:07 |
| russellb | hemna: cool, so good progress. blueprint says "needs code review" which sounds right | 21:07 |
| hemna | yup, just grinding through that phase :) | 21:07 |
| russellb | alaski: getting feedback and all that? | 21:07 |
| alaski | russellb: yes. But soon I'll probably be pushing more aggressively for it | 21:08 |
| russellb | jog0: around? how about "clean up nova's db api?" | 21:08 |
| jog0 | russellb: yup | 21:08 |
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| jog0 | russellb: got side tracked with some API benchmarking and performance | 21:08 |
| russellb | that's good stuff too :-) | 21:09 |
| jog0 | but db api work is moving along nicely | 21:09 |
| russellb | k | 21:09 |
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| russellb | still grizzly-3 material? | 21:09 |
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| jog0 | russellb: I hope so | 21:09 |
| russellb | k, updated to "good progress" | 21:09 |
| jog0 | one big part is ready: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/18493/ | 21:09 |
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| jog0 | although that may be another bp | 21:09 |
| russellb | devananda: a lot of patches have gone in for db-session-cleanup, how much more is there on that | 21:10 |
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| russellb | he may not be around ... | 21:11 |
| russellb | well, we just need to keep these up to date as we get closer to grizzly-3 so we have a closer and closer picture of what's going to make it (or not) | 21:11 |
| russellb | anything else on grizzly-3? | 21:11 |
| russellb | #topic differences in virt drivers | 21:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "differences in virt drivers (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:12 | |
| russellb | who's up? :) | 21:12 |
| vishy | russellb: i asked him yesterday and we had a bit to go | 21:12 |
| alaski | rmk and I started this briefly in -nova | 21:12 |
| russellb | vishy: ok thanks, sorry to duplicate nagging :) | 21:12 |
| alaski | but I think we have slightly different goals | 21:12 |
| rmk | I'm not sure about the specific scope of this topic but there's probably a discussion worthy topic at least for the libvirt driver | 21:13 |
| russellb | vishy: could use like a "last checked on status" field, heh | 21:13 |
| rmk | It's more architectural than anything immediate | 21:13 |
| rmk | There's a whole lot of if/else in the libvirt driver specifically around LXC, I'm beginning to think that needs to be split out somewhat. | 21:14 |
| alaski | rmk: I added this based on your comments around static enforcement of task state transitions, so that was the intended starting scope | 21:15 |
| rmk | ok great | 21:15 |
| rmk | Yeah that was the other part of this | 21:15 |
| rmk | There are all sorts of restrictions in the API around which state/task transitions are allowed versus not | 21:15 |
| rmk | The reality is that every hypervisor is different, so enforcing this statically is simply going to limit us | 21:16 |
| rmk | For example, one hypervisor might be perfectly happy to allow rebooting a suspended VM and another may not | 21:16 |
| rmk | My thought was there should be a method for dynamically setting these restrictions | 21:16 |
| alaski | and I wanted to go one step further and get a sense of how to handle other differences between hypervisors that may affect the api | 21:16 |
| rmk | Maybe we should explore a compute registration process, where different hypervisors check in with their capabilities (policy) | 21:17 |
| rmk | And potentially limit what policy is enforced based on the destination of the command | 21:17 |
| rmk | I'm just throwing out rough ideas here to invoke discussion around how best to handle this | 21:18 |
| vishy | rmk: seems interesting but also a bit complex | 21:18 |
| vishy | rmk: it seems like we can define slightly looser transitions | 21:19 |
| rmk | vishy: That's my short term thought for sure | 21:19 |
| vishy | and handle the outliers with try: excepts | 21:19 |
| russellb | or start with strict base transitions, and let drivers register additional ones that are allowed | 21:19 |
| rmk | It's actually what I proposed in my pending review about this | 21:19 |
| russellb | something like that | 21:19 |
| rmk | So just loosen what we're restricting today at the API and rely on the drivers to raise exceptions | 21:20 |
| vishy | are there really going to be enough differences to have a whole registration process? | 21:20 |
| russellb | i don't know | 21:20 |
| rmk | vishy: I think it's worth exploring | 21:20 |
| rmk | We need to assess what we're limiting and why to really make a decision on whether the effort is ultimately worthwhile | 21:20 |
| vishy | rmk: i guess the issues is where there is async stuff | 21:20 |
| vishy | rmk: it sucks to put things into error if we don't have to | 21:20 |
| rmk | https://review.openstack.org/20009 is the review which sort of started this | 21:21 |
| alaski | vishy: Well the instance actions stuff should remove the need to set an error state in these cases | 21:21 |
| rmk | Also, on the same note, we don't expose the current restrictions anywhere. There's no API call to figure it out, so Horizon ends up having to match our restrictions. | 21:22 |
| rmk | Anyway that's a sidebar to this topic | 21:22 |
| alaski | and what I'm really curious about is how much divergence will be acceptable. Especially with no immediate feedback in the api | 21:22 |
| soren | Would it be terribly hard for instances to carry capability attributes? | 21:22 |
| soren | If they did, the API server would know if it could be rebooted. | 21:23 |
| rmk | soren: Wouldn't you want that to be associated to the host and not the instance itself? | 21:23 |
| soren | It has to look up the validity of the server's id anyway. | 21:23 |
| soren | rmk: Not necessarily. | 21:23 |
| rmk | So maybe it's not registration as much as a policy for each hypervisor which plugs into the API | 21:23 |
| soren | rmk: Different vm types on the same host can have differing capabilities. | 21:23 |
| soren | rmk: physical host, that is. | 21:24 |
| vishy | rmk: we have to be able to map instances to hypervisors | 21:24 |
| rmk | i.e. I'm destined for an instance on a libvirt compute node, check the libvirt api policy | 21:24 |
| vishy | rmk: sounds like this should be a design summit discussion | 21:24 |
| rmk | Sounds good, I thought it might be | 21:24 |
| russellb | "lock the hypervisor guys in a room" | 21:25 |
| rmk | I would advocate relaxing the restrictions starting sooner than that though | 21:25 |
| rmk | We end up making direct DB changes constantly because of this | 21:25 |
| rmk | I probably need to classify the types of changes we're going to the DB for, it's way too often | 21:26 |
| alaski | and we end up with a lot of instances in error because the restrictions are very relaxed. | 21:27 |
| alaski | but we can handle that while we figure out a good solution | 21:27 |
| rmk | Isn't it possible for the driver to return in a manner which doesn't trigger an error state/ | 21:27 |
| rmk | Just that it ignored the operation? | 21:27 |
| vishy | rmk: not really | 21:27 |
| alaski | not in a way that's exposed to a user | 21:27 |
| vishy | although with alaski's patches maybe | 21:28 |
| vishy | alaski: to see everything that has happened to the instance | 21:28 |
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| alaski | for now can we come to a rough consensus on restricted vs relaxed? For reviewing purposes. | 21:29 |
| rmk | I'd advocate relaxing a bit and relaxing more as we have an appropriate framework | 21:29 |
| alaski | vishy: that's what my work is intending, we should be able to see everything that has happened | 21:29 |
| rmk | I've been pretty gung ho on making "reboot" the fixit hammer | 21:29 |
| vishy | alaski, rmk no dramatic changes are really appropriate. I do like relaxing reboot as much as possible | 21:30 |
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| rmk | That's the one I think helps the most right this moment | 21:30 |
| rmk | THere are others but not as big a deal | 21:30 |
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| rmk | Most of the others are just annoying and not "an admin needs to intereve" | 21:31 |
| rmk | intervene | 21:31 |
| rmk | anyway that's all I had, would like to discuss more at the summit if we can | 21:32 |
| russellb | sounds like a good session idea | 21:32 |
| russellb | #topic vm-ensembles | 21:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "vm-ensembles (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:32 | |
| russellb | should be a quick topic ... | 21:32 |
| russellb | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/vm-ensembles | 21:32 |
| russellb | i just wanted to draw some attention to this blueprint | 21:32 |
| russellb | and there's also a ML thread about it | 21:33 |
| russellb | it's proposing adding some additional complexity to scheduling | 21:33 |
| russellb | from my first pass on it, i wasn't convinced that it was justified, so i'd like to get some other opinions from those heavily involved with nova | 21:33 |
| russellb | doesn't have to be this second, but go give it a read, and post feedback to the ML | 21:34 |
| russellb | (the author isn't here to defend himself anyway) | 21:34 |
| rmk | I like what's being proposed, I'm not sure it needs a whole new paradigm of grouping | 21:34 |
| vishy | i went back and forth with the authors a few times | 21:34 |
| vishy | i think need some minimal support in the scheduler to achieve this | 21:34 |
| vishy | unless we want to expose information from the scheduler to external services | 21:35 |
| rmk | There are other use cases for this sort of thing, like making sure you try to distribute a particular class of VM (running a given app) across racks before.. | 21:35 |
| russellb | there's some basic anti-affinity support there using a scheduler hint IIRC | 21:35 |
| rmk | Basically I think you can do this with key/value pairs as hints to the scheduler | 21:35 |
| russellb | different-host or whatever | 21:35 |
| russellb | so i guess i'm just trying to better understand what's not possible now ... or it's a matter of making it more friendly, or what | 21:36 |
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| alaski | russellb: I think it has to do with scheduling multiple instance types at the same time, though I'm still not entirely sure that's it | 21:37 |
| jog0 | russellb: it would be nice to be able to say to spread out this group of VMs, instead of saying antiaffinity to this vm | 21:37 |
| russellb | well, hopefuly we can distill it down to the core problems and what needs to be done to solve them on the ML | 21:37 |
| russellb | and if it's not resolved sooner, another design summit candidate | 21:38 |
| russellb | can probably be wrapped up sooner though] | 21:38 |
| russellb | #topic bugs | 21:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:38 | |
| russellb | #link http://webnumbr.com/untouched-nova-bugs | 21:38 |
| russellb | 47 untriaged ... we've at least kept the untouched bugs list relatively flat this release cycle, so that's good :) | 21:39 |
| russellb | one thing that occurred to me today, when we talk about bugs and what needs to be triaged, we never mention python-novaclient | 21:39 |
| russellb | there's another 36 New bugs there ... https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-novaclient/+bugs?search=Search&field.status=New | 21:39 |
| russellb | i kinda wish the client bugs were in the same list | 21:40 |
| russellb | but i guess it really is separate | 21:40 |
| russellb | oldest untriaged client bug is april 1st last year, so guess we need to work on that :) | 21:41 |
| russellb | that's all i wanted to mention ... any specific bugs we should look at now? | 21:41 |
| vishy | russellb: lol yeah | 21:41 |
| russellb | vishy: yeah i kinda laughed when i came across it ... poor novaclient, i just totally forgot to ever look at it | 21:42 |
| russellb | lots of good low hanging fruit in there if anyone is interested | 21:42 |
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| russellb | #topic Open Discussion | 21:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:44 | |
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| rmk | So yeah, any thoughts on whether we continue down this current path with libvirt, where multiple hypervisors are supported all via conditionals? | 21:44 |
| * russellb isn't familiar enough with that code ... :-/ | 21:45 | |
| rmk | Part of this is it would be nice to be able to focus on the hypervisor of interest, rather than considering those which I don't have deployed anywhere | 21:46 |
| rmk | I'm sure that's a common situation too | 21:46 |
| russellb | guess this would be a good ML thread .. | 21:46 |
| rmk | It would be hard for me to justify time spent on Xen or LXC when I have no use case for it | 21:46 |
| rmk | sure, I can post on the ML | 21:46 |
| russellb | might need to outline a proposal or two, and get people to weigh in on candidate directions | 21:46 |
| devananda | russellb: re db-session-cleanup, there's still ~20 public methods taking a session parameter, which I'd like to cleanup, but haven't had time to tackle recently | 21:47 |
| rmk | Did we end upo agreeing to relax API restrictions around reboot? | 21:47 |
| russellb | devananda: k thanks | 21:47 |
| russellb | rmk: yes sounds like it | 21:47 |
| rmk | Or still going to hold on that too? | 21:47 |
| vishy | oh i have a topic | 21:47 |
| rmk | OK then... https://review.openstack.org/20009 :) | 21:48 |
| alaski | rmk: I think we did | 21:48 |
| russellb | rmk: and capping the changes at that for now, until discussed in more depth | 21:48 |
| rmk | sounds good | 21:48 |
| vishy | does anyone care about this: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/multi-boot-instance-naming | 21:48 |
| vishy | my thought is to do something like | 21:48 |
| rmk | vishy: It would be nice to have, doesn't have to be super extensive | 21:48 |
| russellb | yeah, seems nice ... needs a volunteer? | 21:49 |
| vishy | check: osapi_compute_unique_server_name_scope and if it is set | 21:49 |
| rmk | Maybe a basic set of template values which we interpolate | 21:49 |
| vishy | then just append '-%s' % uuid on to the name | 21:49 |
| vishy | seems like the simple solution | 21:49 |
| rmk | Why not just have a set of macros and run them through a simple processor? | 21:49 |
| cburgess | vishy: Wouldn't a simple sequence number be easier? | 21:49 |
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| vishy | cburgess: no doesn't really work | 21:50 |
| rmk | Let them use any value we already store | 21:50 |
| vishy | if the scope is global | 21:50 |
| rmk | name-%uuid% | 21:50 |
| vishy | and i do launch -n10 test | 21:50 |
| vishy | and someone else does launch -n10 test | 21:50 |
| vishy | i get a failure | 21:50 |
| vishy | which is really annoying | 21:50 |
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| vishy | rmk: we could config option the param | 21:51 |
| vishy | rmk: but I was thinking the simpler the better | 21:51 |
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| rmk | sure that works too | 21:51 |
| cburgess | vishy: You get a failure or a a non-unique name (which isn't guarded against today)? | 21:51 |
| russellb | just non-unique name pretty sure | 21:52 |
| vishy | cburgess: i'm saying that in global scope the sequence number is pretty bad | 21:52 |
| vishy | cburgess: probably ok in project scope although you could still run into issues with it | 21:52 |
| russellb | if this is for hostnames ... UUID makes for some ugly hostnames | 21:53 |
| cburgess | vishy: I don't think understand what you mean by global scope? A desire to keep name unique for DNS purposes? | 21:53 |
| russellb | but at least it'd be unique | 21:53 |
| vishy | anyway, anyone feel like tackling it? | 21:53 |
| vishy | cburgess: config option | 21:53 |
| vishy | osapi_compute_unique_server_name_scope | 21:53 |
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| vishy | if you set it to 'global' you get an error if the name conflicts across all tenants | 21:54 |
| russellb | #help need a volunteer for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/multi-boot-instance-naming | 21:54 |
| cburgess | Oh I am unfamiliar with that so I shall pipe down. | 21:54 |
| cburgess | Is this grizzly-3 milestone? | 21:54 |
| russellb | yeah could be | 21:55 |
| russellb | if someone takes it | 21:55 |
| cburgess | I could take it but I know I won't have time to do it before grizzly-3. If no one else takes it for grizzly-3 I will take it for H. | 21:55 |
| vishy | one more thing | 21:55 |
| vishy | can everyone please help with reviews: http://reviewday.ohthree.com/ | 21:55 |
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| russellb | sweet my "HACK - DO NOT MERGE." is ranked at the top | 21:56 |
| russellb | (sorry, it's helping find remaining db accesses for no-db-compute) | 21:56 |
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| lifeless | how is score calculated? | 21:57 |
| lifeless | and yes, will do reviews | 21:57 |
| russellb | combination of various things, if tests are passing, how old it is, if it's associated with a bug or blueprint and if so, what its priority is | 21:57 |
| vishy | endmeeting? | 21:58 |
| russellb | wfm | 21:58 |
| russellb | #endmeeting | 21:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 21:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jan 24 21:58:29 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-01-24-21.04.html | 21:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-01-24-21.04.txt | 21:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-01-24-21.04.log.html | 21:58 |
| russellb | thanks | 21:58 |
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| devananda | anyone want to stick around and talk about database things? | 22:00 |
| lifeless | mmm databases | 22:02 |
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| jog0 | sure | 22:03 |
| devananda | #startmeeting db | 22:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jan 24 22:04:38 2013 UTC. The chair is devananda. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: db)" | 22:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'db' | 22:04 |
| devananda | I don't have an agenda or anything :) | 22:05 |
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| devananda | but some really cool patches have landed recently, so I thought might be good to talk about the next steps | 22:05 |
| devananda | or see what everyone else is doing | 22:05 |
| devananda | #topic open discussion | 22:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: db)" | 22:06 | |
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| devananda | so, support for unique indexes landed yesterday | 22:07 |
| devananda | #link https://review.openstack.org/16940 | 22:07 |
| devananda | and it looks like shadow tables // archiving is about to land | 22:07 |
| devananda | #link https://review.openstack.org/18493 | 22:08 |
| jog0 | devananda: awesome | 22:08 |
| jog0 | so now we can start using unique indexes? | 22:08 |
| devananda | yep | 22:08 |
| jog0 | rather start enabling them | 22:08 |
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| devananda | Boris is planning to create one review / migration per table | 22:08 |
| jog0 | sweet | 22:08 |
| devananda | to add actual unique constraints, and test the migration fwd/bkwd | 22:08 |
| jog0 | devananda: as there are some big changes to DB landing for Grizzly, perhaps it would be nice to send an email out to openstack-dev saying what has changed, and what is coming | 22:09 |
| jog0 | to let people know that the DB is getting better | 22:09 |
| jog0 | and how many cool things have landed | 22:09 |
| devananda | probably a good idea :) | 22:09 |
| devananda | there's also the no-db-compute stuff which seems to be slowing down a lot | 22:10 |
| devananda | though i haven't followed it closely | 22:10 |
| jog0 | not sure how far they are on that one, but looks likes its made a lot of progress | 22:10 |
| jog0 | russellb: ^ | 22:11 |
| jog0 | so lets review the big cahnges that have landed so far | 22:11 |
| jog0 | and what is still scheduled | 22:11 |
| jog0 | so we have the basics for a email | 22:12 |
| devananda | k | 22:12 |
| lifeless | russellb: does reviewday do a topo sort (e.g. all reviews in a stack get promoted to the highest importance of the reviews under it? | 22:12 |
| russellb | lifeless: no idea on that | 22:13 |
| russellb | dprince wrote it | 22:13 |
| zykes- | question: plans to support stuff else then mysql ? | 22:13 |
| russellb | on no-db-compute, still some work to do | 22:13 |
| russellb | I have a review up that hacks nova-compute to log a traceback every time db.anything gets called | 22:13 |
| devananda | zykes-: afaik postgres is already supported | 22:13 |
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| zykes- | oh | 22:13 |
| russellb | still looks like we can do it by grizzly-3, but have to work at it | 22:13 |
| krtaylor | I added postgres CI tests | 22:14 |
| devananda | russellb: would be great to have a status page that listed the db calls still coming from n-cpu :) | 22:14 |
| russellb | postgres is used on smokestack as well | 22:14 |
| russellb | devananda: heh, yeah ... it's basically the nova-compute log from the latest test run on that review right now | 22:14 |
| devananda | heh | 22:14 |
| russellb | for reference ... https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20052/ ... http://logs.openstack.org/20052/7/check/gate-tempest-devstack-vm/27998/logs/screen-n-cpu.txt.gz | 22:15 |
| devananda | jog0: the meeting wiki seems to be the best reference right now for ongoing DB work at a high level: http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/DBTeamMeeting | 22:16 |
| russellb | 105 entries in that log file (many of them the same thing) | 22:16 |
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| jog0 | devananda: yeah, most of those are in progress AFAIK | 22:17 |
| jog0 | if not all | 22:17 |
| devananda | yea | 22:17 |
| jog0 | although I did file a bug on non-blocking-db | 22:17 |
| jog0 | with comstud | 22:18 |
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| devananda | going to jot down my understanding of the different project status' here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/db-status | 22:19 |
| devananda | and use that as a basis for an email | 22:19 |
| jog0 | sounds good | 22:19 |
| sdague | russellb: so postgresql in tempest gate is currently bust, you know if dprince is running all the tests or just smoke? | 22:19 |
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| russellb | sdague: i'm not actually sure ... | 22:20 |
| sdague | http://logs.openstack.org/periodic/periodic-tempest-devstack-postgres-vm-full/ if anyone wants to help sort out the fails, wanted to get that actually gating by g-3 to keep us sane | 22:21 |
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| dripton | sdague: I'll take a look at postgres failures. | 22:21 |
| russellb | sdague: if you go to smokestack.openstack.org, scroll down to a nova patch, you should be able to dig into the logs for a given run that was using postgres | 22:21 |
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| devananda | dripton: hey there :) | 22:21 |
| sdague | dripton: I think I got the whitebox one addressed in review, but there is a floating ips one, they are usually type mismatch issues | 22:22 |
| russellb | he may have tempest disabled, not sure | 22:22 |
| sdague | russellb: ok | 22:22 |
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| sdague | sorry, just figured I'd stick that out there as I saw the pg statement | 22:22 |
| russellb | sdague: i'm not actually seeing tempest in the log file right now | 22:22 |
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| devananda | dripton: I +1'd your shadow-table patch. is there a patch for copying deleted rows to them? | 22:23 |
| dripton | devananda: not yet; I was waiting for the first part to go in first. But I think it'll be easy. | 22:23 |
| devananda | dripton: great. if it's easy, i think it would be good to have the copy-deleted-rows patch up to get feedback on it | 22:24 |
| devananda | the particulars of that were a bit of a hot topic at the last summit, IIRC | 22:24 |
| dripton | Will do. I wanted to make sure the shadow tables were okay with people first. If they are then it's straightforward copying. | 22:25 |
| jog0 | devananda: dripton +1. It would be nice to be able to try out the shadow tables with copying deleted rows before merging the migration | 22:25 |
| devananda | ++ | 22:25 |
| dripton | ok, I'll try to get the copying patch up soon. (If it's as easy as I think, maybe tomorrow.) | 22:26 |
| jog0 | devananda: lets add impact to the ehterpad | 22:26 |
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| jog0 | devananda: looks good | 22:32 |
| devananda | awesome, thx :) | 22:32 |
| jog0 | there are definitely some nice changes in there | 22:32 |
| jog0 | lots of exciting stuff for Grizzly | 22:32 |
| dripton | Does that etherpad auto-save? The one I use most has a save button. | 22:34 |
| jog0 | AFAIK yes | 22:34 |
| devananda | dripton: yes. click the history button to see | 22:34 |
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| devananda | any other topics folks want to bring up? | 22:35 |
| jog0 | devananda: yeah | 22:35 |
| jog0 | haven't finished collecting/parsing the logs yet | 22:36 |
| jog0 | but think I found an example where mysql reports it takes 0.003156 second and nova.db.api takes 0.08 seconds | 22:36 |
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| jog0 | but I will collect those logs and pastebin them when I double check | 22:37 |
| devananda | sounds good. an occasional skew of 0.05s doesn't surprise me too much in a cloud env | 22:37 |
| devananda | unless it's consistent | 22:38 |
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| jog0 | devananda: well I have very verbose logs this time so maybe we can make something of it | 22:38 |
| devananda | :) | 22:38 |
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| jog0 | devananda: this is related to finding out why some REST API commands take over a second | 22:39 |
| devananda | right | 22:40 |
| devananda | if there's nothing else, shall we end meeting a bit early? | 22:41 |
| dripton | +1 | 22:41 |
| jog0 | +1 | 22:41 |
| devananda | great. thanks all! | 22:42 |
| dripton | bye | 22:42 |
| devananda | #endmeeting | 22:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 22:42 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jan 24 22:42:08 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:42 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/db/2013/db.2013-01-24-22.04.html | 22:42 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/db/2013/db.2013-01-24-22.04.txt | 22:42 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/db/2013/db.2013-01-24-22.04.log.html | 22:42 |
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