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| renuka | Hello, shall we start the openstack volumes meeting? | 17:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| vishy | hi | 17:00 |
| vishy | is anyone else here? | 17:01 |
| renuka | I was trying to find out... I didn't get many responses for the email | 17:01 |
| DuncanT | I'm here (Duncan from HP) | 17:01 |
| dricco | I'm here (Cian from HP) | 17:01 |
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| renuka | DuncanT: have you had the chance to hash out the design of volume affinity? | 17:02 |
| renuka | if you think that you have something to discuss on that front, we could have the meeting now | 17:03 |
| DuncanT | I put up a blueprint... the brief discussion I had with Vladimir last week seemed to suggest that it causes him no problems and basically just appears as a key-value pair at volume create time | 17:04 |
| DuncanT | I'm happy to discuss anybody else's thoughts on it | 17:05 |
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| DuncanT | http://wiki.openstack.org/VolumeAffinity | 17:05 |
| vishy | if there isn't a meeting | 17:05 |
| renuka | #startmeeting | 17:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Nov 3 17:05:40 2011 UTC. The chair is renuka. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 17:05 |
| renuka | #topic Volume Affinity | 17:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Volume Affinity" | 17:05 | |
| renuka | It might be useful to have your thoughts online, so anyone else can read it later | 17:06 |
| DuncanT | http://wiki.openstack.org/VolumeAffinity has the details I've put up so far | 17:06 |
| renuka | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/VolumeAffinity | 17:06 |
| renuka | So what do you expect will go as key value pairs? | 17:07 |
| renuka | Have you decided how you will extend the volume create API? | 17:08 |
| DuncanT | Yes, it looked like "affinity:volume1,volume2,volume3 anti-affinity:volume4" notation could express what we are thinking of | 17:08 |
| DuncanT | No, the API was an open issue | 17:08 |
| DuncanT | volume-types doesn't allow key-value pairs at create time as it stands | 17:08 |
| renuka | vishy: Should API related things be taken up in the nova api meeting or should we come up with extensions here | 17:09 |
| vishy | extensions here | 17:09 |
| DuncanT | Vladimir and I couldn't see a reason not to add an 'extras' field, that can contain key-value pairs, with only affinity and anti-affinity being defined for now | 17:09 |
| vishy | volume api will be separated out so you guys will be responsible for it | 17:09 |
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| vishy | ultimately affinity to computes would be interesting as well | 17:10 |
| renuka | vishy: right, thanks | 17:10 |
| vishy | but that seems like a good start | 17:10 |
| renuka | vishy: I agree. That will likely help boot from volume | 17:10 |
| DuncanT | Should we call it 'volume-affinity' and volume-anti-affinity' to avoid ambiguities later then? | 17:10 |
| vishy | sure | 17:11 |
| vishy | or perhaps it could be affinity:volume-<id> | 17:11 |
| renuka | Do you think we should have something as generic as extras in the API? | 17:11 |
| vishy | and we could use instance-<id> for computes | 17:11 |
| renuka | If this has structure, why not make it an actual option? | 17:11 |
| renuka | vishy: +! | 17:12 |
| renuka | I meant +1 :P | 17:12 |
| vishy | leaving room for other types in the future without having an explosion of keys | 17:12 |
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| DuncanT | I'm thinking we're likely to want to add other options in future | 17:12 |
| renuka | I don't understand. (Potential noob question). If someone has to use the option, they would have to know the key affinity | 17:13 |
| renuka | So anyone using specific things in extras needs to know the keywords | 17:13 |
| renuka | By adding extras, we have to add the parsing for it.. doesn't that get more complicated later? | 17:14 |
| vishy | true | 17:15 |
| DuncanT | key:value pairs end up being a json dictionary, which has a standard parsing | 17:16 |
| renuka | Plus the API is not self explanatory.. because there could be all sorts of features that go in as "extras" | 17:16 |
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| vishy | this is the general idea behind api extensions | 17:16 |
| vishy | extensions can be added to support specific features | 17:16 |
| renuka | vishy: but that is exactly why I would think we need not have another layer of generic options... unless we think we need them. Like in the case of connectivity, there is no way we can support all the options that all storage types have | 17:17 |
| vishy | key value do seem like undocumented features | 17:17 |
| vishy | internally they make sense | 17:18 |
| vishy | but i think what is exposed to the api should attempt to be actual options in the request | 17:18 |
| renuka | but in case of affinity/anti-affinity, we seem to have the keywords nailed. Anything else like compute that gets added later, can go in, as you said affinity: volume-id, compute-id, etc | 17:18 |
| DuncanT | I'm not wedded to the idea, it just seems cleaner than having to make structural changes to clients to support some minor API feature | 17:18 |
| vishy | so that they can be documented. | 17:18 |
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| vishy | if it is an optional parameter | 17:19 |
| vishy | clients can ignore it | 17:19 |
| vishy | i guess i see where you are going though | 17:19 |
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| vishy | if a vendor wants to add a new parameter, they would have to go and modify the client to know about it | 17:20 |
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| DuncanT | vish: Quite | 17:20 |
| vishy | that seems like something that is useful to bring up in the nova-api meeting | 17:20 |
| renuka | Why in this case, in particular? | 17:20 |
| vishy | scheduler hints | 17:21 |
| renuka | wouldn't affinity and anti-affinity keywords be sufficient? | 17:21 |
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| vishy | renuka: in this case, but what if there are other scheduler hints | 17:21 |
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| vishy | ssd:preferred | 17:21 |
| vishy | or something along those lines | 17:21 |
| renuka | vishy: I thought we agreed that types should be used for that | 17:22 |
| vishy | every new hint would have to be added to the client | 17:22 |
| vishy | renuka: types are great for requirements but not hints | 17:22 |
| vishy | optimize:latency vs optimize:bandwidth | 17:23 |
| renuka | makes sense | 17:23 |
| DuncanT | If we rename 'extras' as 'hints' and define it as information the volume driver/scheduler is free to ignore, does that help? | 17:23 |
| renuka | right, so I like the renaming. Just to ensure that we don't end up adding other functionality there, just because we can | 17:23 |
| vishy | in any case, i think we should discuss it in the api meeting. What should be codified into a documented option, and what is ok to stick in as key value pairs | 17:23 |
| vishy | my rough pass would be ignorable data (like hints) are ok as key/value pairs | 17:24 |
| DuncanT | vish: That makes good sense | 17:24 |
| vishy | #action vishy to bring up key-value pairs vs extensions in the nova-api meeting | 17:25 |
| vishy | #action vishy to bring up separate-volume-api in the nova-api meeting | 17:25 |
| vishy | i have to go grab some lunch before it is gone, can I throw in a request before i go? | 17:25 |
| renuka | sure | 17:26 |
| vishy | I would really like you guys to start reviewing all volume related patches that are thrown into gerrit | 17:26 |
| vishy | for example: https://review.openstack.org/#change,1202 | 17:26 |
| vishy | even if it is just to say, that looks fine | 17:26 |
| renuka | will do | 17:27 |
| tim-at-home | ok willn do | 17:27 |
| DuncanT | vish: I've been playing with that code today funny enough | 17:27 |
| tim-at-home | will | 17:27 |
| vishy | #action volume team to start reviewing volume related code in gerrit | 17:27 |
| vishy | great | 17:27 |
| dricco | yup will do | 17:28 |
| renuka | Right, so anything else to be discussed for affinity? This blueprint will be implemented by HP, correct? | 17:29 |
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| DuncanT | renuka: Yes, though it is closely tied to the volume-types work in places | 17:30 |
| renuka | DuncanT: right, so the volume-types work is already in, correct? | 17:31 |
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| DuncanT | renuka: I'm not certain it is in its final form, but I'll check with Vladimir and make sure we don't cause each other headaches | 17:33 |
| renuka | #action HP to look into volume types requirements and implement Volume Affinity/Anti Affinity | 17:34 |
| renuka | The next thing i wanted to bring up was the need for an admin API for dynamic storage | 17:34 |
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| renuka | Does anyone else feel the need for this? | 17:34 |
| tim-at-home | renuka, what do you mean by dynamic storage? | 17:35 |
| renuka | tim-at-home: We do not use storage local to the nova-volume node for volumes | 17:36 |
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| renuka | so we end up having to "add" our storage backends/arrays and remove them when they need to be offline etc | 17:36 |
| tim-at-home | renuka, gotcha - | 17:36 |
| DuncanT | renuka: Is this something that will end up generic, or is it better as a vendor extension? | 17:36 |
| tim-at-home | wont this be very specific? | 17:36 |
| renuka | At the moment, the xen storage manager driver has its own table, and uses the nova-manage command to add/remove this | 17:37 |
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| renuka | this is how the nova-manage command looks at the moment: | 17:37 |
| renuka | nova-manage sm backend_add <flavor label> <SR type> [config connection parameters] | 17:37 |
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| renuka | flavor here means type (needs to be refactored) | 17:38 |
| tim-at-home | for example we have a proprietary API for managing our storage - it is very specific to our particular archtiectrure | 17:38 |
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| renuka | So I guess we are leaning towards vendor extensions then | 17:38 |
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| tim-at-home | I do not feel strongly about it, | 17:39 |
| tim-at-home | ohters? | 17:39 |
| DuncanT | I think so. We might look at how much commonality there is later, but I don't see any advantage at the moment | 17:39 |
| rnirmal | each vendor already has existing tools to manage this, should we recreate them within the context of nova | 17:39 |
| renuka | without a common table that contains the storage available in the zone, would be still be able to function well across various vendors/storage types? | 17:41 |
| DuncanT | Surely the available storage is know dynamically by the scheduler based on what nova-volume servers present themselves? | 17:42 |
| renuka | right, i guess report capabilities can be used appropriately | 17:43 |
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| tim-at-home | agree | 17:43 |
| renuka | next up was the netapp blueprint that robert mentioned on the emails. Is anyone from netapp here? | 17:44 |
| renuka | guess not | 17:45 |
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| renuka | Anything else anyone would like to bring up? | 17:45 |
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| DuncanT | Is boot-from-volume going to be discussed at some point? | 17:46 |
| renuka | We are certainly interested in that | 17:46 |
| tim-at-home | is anyone using it? | 17:46 |
| DuncanT | The current situation, aims and functionality is not very clear, and the current shape of the API is very limiting | 17:46 |
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| renuka | I agree | 17:47 |
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| tim-at-home | me 2 | 17:47 |
| renuka | The code seems to be there for libvirt, but I haven't used it | 17:47 |
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| tim-at-home | should we ask Morita-san to come along? | 17:48 |
| renuka | should we bring this up on an email thread for visibility? | 17:49 |
| tim-at-home | I think that is a good idea. I certainly find it difficult to understand exactly what is there | 17:50 |
| DuncanT | It would definitely be worth getting all of the interested parties involved, yes | 17:50 |
| renuka | DuncanT: Is there anything in particular you would like to see in the API for example? | 17:50 |
| DuncanT | renuka: I'd like to see an API for generically plugging volumes onto an instance/server before it is booted, and setting the boot device | 17:51 |
| DuncanT | Rather than limiting it to the ec2 boot-onto-a-cloned-copy only | 17:51 |
| renuka | DuncanT: there is a BootFromVolumeController in the openstack api | 17:52 |
| renuka | extensions | 17:52 |
| DuncanT | renuka: I saw it, it is not clear how it is supposed to work | 17:52 |
| renuka | #action bring up boot from volume on email thread to get an idea of current state/goals | 17:53 |
| DuncanT | For example, if I have vm1 create & prepare (fill) a volume, then detach I'd like to be able to provision a new vm that boots from that volume | 17:53 |
| DuncanT | (or volumes) | 17:53 |
| jdurgin | DuncanT: this exists as an OS api extension, but it could use some cleaning up | 17:55 |
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| tim-at-home | I think it would be good to consolidate the boot from volume *& the recent autocreatebootvoluems into a logical set of volume & boot capabilities | 17:55 |
| renuka | agreed | 17:55 |
| renuka | Right, we have about 3 minutes remaining. Anything else that needs to be brought up in the future? | 17:57 |
| tim-at-home | i'm good | 17:57 |
| DuncanT | I can't think of anything at the moment | 17:57 |
| dricco | good here too | 17:57 |
| renuka | so I noticed we have the nova volume meeting set to happen every Thursday | 17:58 |
| renuka | just wanted to confirm that everyone feels the need for a weekly meeting | 17:58 |
| DuncanT | There have been things to discuss every week so far | 17:58 |
| tim-at-home | I think at present it is a good timing,. As it happens I will be AWOL next week | 17:59 |
| renuka | ok. let us keep it that way | 17:59 |
| renuka | alright, thanks everyone. | 17:59 |
| tim-at-home | ciao | 17:59 |
| renuka | #endmeeting | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Openstack Meetings: http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/" | 18:00 | |
| DuncanT | Thanks | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Nov 3 18:00:02 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-11-03-17.05.html | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-11-03-17.05.txt | 18:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-11-03-17.05.log.html | 18:00 |
| dricco | thanks, bye | 18:00 |
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