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vilobhmm11 | #startmeeting quotas-wg | 17:02 |
---|---|---|
openstack | Meeting started Tue May 17 17:02:08 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is vilobhmm11. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:02 |
openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:02 |
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: quotas-wg)" | 17:02 | |
openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'quotas_wg' | 17:02 |
vilobhmm11 | Courtesy quotas-wg meeting reminder: nikhil, vilobhmm, DuncanT, mc_nair, ninag, amrith | 17:02 |
amrith | ./ | 17:02 |
vilobhmm11 | hi all | 17:02 |
thingee | o/ | 17:02 |
DuncanT | Hi | 17:03 |
vilobhmm11 | hi thingee, amrith, DuncanT | 17:03 |
vilobhmm11 | we can get started | 17:03 |
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vilobhmm11 | #topic Updates | 17:04 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Updates (Meeting topic: quotas-wg)" | 17:04 | |
vilobhmm11 | lets wait 2 more min for nikhil, harlowja, itisha | 17:04 |
DuncanT | Do you have the link for the agenda, please? | 17:05 |
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vilobhmm11 | DuncanT : https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/quotas-wg-meeting-agenda | 17:05 |
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DuncanT | Thanks | 17:06 |
vilobhmm11 | alrite lets start | 17:07 |
vilobhmm11 | #1. Last week Delimiter was added to CI system : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/315232/ | 17:07 |
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vilobhmm11 | its a good start since this helps us to get the CI support and we can follow the same methods for pushing/revieing/merging code as other projects do.. | 17:08 |
vilobhmm11 | but even before that to make good progess we had set up travis to run nightly job https://github.com/vilobhmm/delimiter/commit/62b89b853b4e4a879e135bc8a24ec58ec5ea591c | 17:09 |
vilobhmm11 | so now since we have openstack ci we don't need travis anymore | 17:09 |
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vilobhmm11 | #. The project launchpad page is all set up | 17:09 |
vilobhmm11 | https://launchpad.net/delimiter | 17:09 |
vilobhmm11 | #2. ^^ | 17:09 |
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vilobhmm11 | #3. Delimiter library is now under openstack umbrella https://github.com/openstack/delimiter | 17:10 |
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vilobhmm11 | #4. To get things started we have basic interface and support for zookeeper based driver https://github.com/openstack/delimiter/blob/master/delimiter/drivers/zookeeper.py | 17:10 |
vilobhmm11 | #5. For SQL based driver work is in progress and should be up for review this week | 17:11 |
vilobhmm11 | #6. We had interestring discussion on generation-id and how it should be used by the consumers of delimiter library here http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-May/095029.html just in case you missed it | 17:12 |
vilobhmm11 | We will have a document under delimiter/docs short doc to explain it to the consumers of library | 17:12 |
amrith | vilobhmm11, I have two questions re: updates | 17:13 |
vilobhmm11 | thanks to amrith, jaypipes for there clear and concise explinations for #6 | 17:13 |
vilobhmm11 | amrith : sure | 17:13 |
vilobhmm11 | before the questions | 17:13 |
amrith | the first is about the discussion at the oslo meeting yesterday and the second is about the irc chat with jay yesterday. | 17:13 |
vilobhmm11 | thats it about the updates for the library | 17:13 |
vilobhmm11 | for this week | 17:13 |
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vilobhmm11 | thingee, amrith, DuncanT : any questions , suggestions, feedback ? | 17:14 |
amrith | yes, these two are updates. | 17:14 |
vilobhmm11 | ok | 17:14 |
amrith | #7. oslo meeting yesterday | 17:14 |
vilobhmm11 | amrith : please proceed will take suggestion, feedback later | 17:14 |
amrith | #8. irc chat with jaypipes yesterday | 17:14 |
DuncanT | I need to read the linked thread some more, but it certainly helps | 17:14 |
amrith | there appears to still be a signficant disconnect on the nature and scope of delimiter library | 17:14 |
amrith | for example, you ask about generation id's and things like that. | 17:15 |
amrith | yet projects (example. Nova) feel that all that will be in the projects scope, not delimiter scope | 17:15 |
amrith | so before going further, we need to all get on the same page about what the scope of delimiter is. | 17:15 |
vilobhmm11 | irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/#8. irc chat with jaypipes yesterday on openstack-dev between 3-4 EST | 17:15 |
amrith | and whether consumers of the project would be interested in that converstaion. | 17:15 |
amrith | also whether consumers of the projectw would be interested in the outcome of the project. | 17:16 |
amrith | currently, as described by jay for example, delimiter is not a very interesting project (i.e. what does it really do?) | 17:16 |
amrith | how do we propose to address that. | 17:17 |
vilobhmm11 | Thought about it yesterday | 17:18 |
vilobhmm11 | #1. to answer that everyone agrees that quota infrastructure is not in a good shape in projects using quota | 17:18 |
DuncanT | amrith: It's in the project scope but a prerequisit for delimiter AFAICT | 17:19 |
vilobhmm11 | #2. projects may be don't want to spend time in investigating time in going for "no-reservation" based approach which the library provides | 17:19 |
vilobhmm11 | #3. support for quota calculation for hierarchical/non-hiearchical projects | 17:19 |
amrith | DuncanT, please elaborate. What is in the project scope and prerequisite for delimiter? | 17:20 |
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vilobhmm11 | amrith : +1 | 17:20 |
vilobhmm11 | DuncanT : please elaborate | 17:20 |
amrith | vilobhmm11, all of what you say fails to account for the fact that projects who want to use delimiter don't want to relinquish either the recording of the allocation or the actual process for consuming. | 17:21 |
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DuncanT | amrith: Things like using generation ids | 17:21 |
amrith | DuncanT, what about them? | 17:22 |
amrith | they are, apparently, not in delimiter scope | 17:22 |
amrith | that is part of the 'how projects record allocations' | 17:22 |
vilobhmm11 | amrith : will get back to that…listening to DuncanT now.. | 17:22 |
DuncanT | amrith: But they do seem to be a prerequisit | 17:22 |
amrith | preprequisite for whom? | 17:22 |
amrith | for the projects | 17:23 |
amrith | delimiter neither sees nor touches them | 17:23 |
DuncanT | amrith: For projects that want to use delimiter | 17:23 |
amrith | absolutely not true | 17:23 |
amrith | that's an example | 17:23 |
amrith | of how nova wants to do things | 17:23 |
amrith | they aren't prescriptive about it | 17:23 |
amrith | for example, jay says there's no guarantee that projects will store this data in a relational database. | 17:23 |
DuncanT | amrith: I'm confused then about how else we can make things work, but I'm happy to wait to see code to a certain degree | 17:23 |
amrith | and very clearly, the whole generation concept depends on a transactional rdbms. | 17:23 |
amrith | DuncanT, did you read the chat with jay yesterday (3-4pm eastern) | 17:24 |
DuncanT | I think if we go too far into what is possible then we never get anything actually usable | 17:24 |
DuncanT | I have the log, I've not read it yet. I wouldn't take everything Jay says as gospel though. | 17:24 |
amrith | I don't take anything, anyone says, as gospel, even if it is printed in a book | 17:25 |
amrith | but that aside. | 17:25 |
amrith | he is illustrative of a consumer | 17:25 |
amrith | of the library | 17:25 |
amrith | and he describes what he views as delimiter. | 17:25 |
amrith | now, if he is one ... what about others? | 17:26 |
amrith | what do others expect of delimiter? | 17:26 |
amrith | I've seen no other 'consumer' tell what they want | 17:26 |
DuncanT | I'm one. What I most of all want right now is something less nebulous to talk about | 17:26 |
vilobhmm11 | DuncanT : what does that mean ? | 17:26 |
DuncanT | I don't much care what scope delimiter chooses, I want to see if it produces something useful to the cinder project | 17:27 |
vilobhmm11 | since its cross project it would be nice to limit t scope beforehand and see if it works in a cross project sense | 17:27 |
vilobhmm11 | and not for a particular project otherwise we will have to go back-n-forth | 17:27 |
DuncanT | So what is the smallest possible scope we can start with? I'd say getting RDBMS working is absolutely needed for most existing deployments - cinder won't, I think, take anything that requires zookeeper, for example | 17:28 |
vilobhmm11 | amrith : to answer your question ; in the current design that few of us have discussed delimiter can be seen as a proxy where it doesn't own any data, neither it directly manipulates any data but just acts as a mediator | 17:28 |
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vilobhmm11 | amrith : delimiter needs to provide something more than just being a proxy for the calls and doing some computation based of the data provided by the consumers is what you are pointing to right ? | 17:29 |
nikhil | hey guys, my previous meeting rolled over. sorry about the delay. | 17:30 |
vilobhmm11 | np nikhil | 17:30 |
vilobhmm11 | we are discussing about the scope for delimiter | 17:30 |
vilobhmm11 | and going through the discussion that jay and amrith had yesterday on openstack-dev 3-4 pm about the scope of delimiter | 17:30 |
nikhil | Thanks! | 17:31 |
vilobhmm11 | amrith : ^^ | 17:32 |
vilobhmm11 | you there ? | 17:32 |
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vilobhmm11 | DuncanT : you there ? | 17:33 |
DuncanT | Yes | 17:33 |
vilobhmm11 | how will the solution proposed above will help | 17:33 |
nikhil | I think we should be okay with the rdbms assumption | 17:34 |
nikhil | most projects default to that | 17:35 |
DuncanT | I'm still trying to cartch up on the discussion yesterday and the email thread | 17:35 |
nikhil | and I echo DuncanT that the ZK won't be acceptable to most projects by default and it can be good to have | 17:35 |
DuncanT | But I think we're running round in circles at the moment, and will be until we've got a PoC | 17:36 |
nikhil | (I think good to have is just me) | 17:36 |
nikhil | DuncanT: +1 | 17:36 |
vilobhmm11 | just wanted to see an alternative as generation concept depends on a transactional rdbms. | 17:36 |
vilobhmm11 | but for that delimiter should store generation-id | 17:37 |
vilobhmm11 | which it is not doing at this moment | 17:37 |
nikhil | vilobhmm11: I think we should start with that approacha and then iterate over it | 17:37 |
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DuncanT | From a cinder point of view, we're always going to have an rdbms, so I'm ok with that | 17:37 |
vilobhmm11 | ok | 17:37 |
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vilobhmm11 | #agenda Tasks for this week | 17:38 |
vilobhmm11 | #1. Generation id documentation | 17:38 |
vilobhmm11 | #2. Internal object structure for delimiter - vilobhmm | 17:38 |
DuncanT | We don't use generations as a concept yet, and I'm still trying to figure their cost/benefit outside of quota management | 17:38 |
vilobhmm11 | DuncanT : is that targeted for Newton ? | 17:38 |
vilobhmm11 | for cinder usage of generation id | 17:39 |
nikhil | I am wondering if sudipto and vilobhmm11 can pair on the gen_id documentation | 17:39 |
nikhil | as I won't be reviewing it :-) | 17:39 |
DuncanT | Not currently, we've no clear idea of the point, other than quota | 17:39 |
vilobhmm11 | sure that would be gr8 | 17:39 |
nikhil | my focus is the drivers | 17:39 |
vilobhmm11 | sudipto : if you can help it would be nice | 17:39 |
sudipto | vilobhmm11, sure... | 17:39 |
vilobhmm11 | by next week if we have these 2 things sorted we should be in good shape | 17:40 |
DuncanT | Migrating to generations on a live upgrade scenario looks challenging | 17:40 |
vilobhmm11 | I have also started working on the sql based driver | 17:40 |
* thingee has to disappear | 17:40 | |
nikhil | I wonder if we can extend the basic engine that doesn't have transactional guarantees now? | 17:40 |
vilobhmm11 | we have the initial template for zk based driver https://github.com/openstack/delimiter/blob/master/delimiter/drivers/zookeeper.py thanks to harlowja for that | 17:41 |
DuncanT | How can you use ZK without peppering ZK stuff all over the code? I've not got an understanding of that either | 17:41 |
nikhil | vilobhmm11: I think it would be nice if we can just have the most simple driver for now | 17:42 |
nikhil | DuncanT: it's a POC, we can iterate over it | 17:42 |
vilobhmm11 | DuncanT, nikhil: zk is just a placeholder | 17:42 |
vilobhmm11 | it won't be used | 17:42 |
nikhil | vilobhmm11: for example, get_quota, set_quota, and delete_quota | 17:42 |
vilobhmm11 | it was something to startoff | 17:42 |
vilobhmm11 | the only driver that will be used whenever delimiter is used by a project is the sql driver | 17:43 |
nikhil | vilobhmm11: without being transaction agnostic | 17:43 |
nikhil | sorry, with being* | 17:43 |
vilobhmm11 | nikhil, DuncanT : ^^ | 17:43 |
nikhil | ok | 17:43 |
vilobhmm11 | so getting SQL driver up and running is our top most priority! | 17:43 |
vilobhmm11 | and for that it will need the objects support etc which i plan to work on this week | 17:44 |
sudipto | vilobhmm11, you can pull me in for any work you want to get done there. | 17:44 |
* sudipto is still catching up, but hopefully will be there soon | 17:45 | |
vilobhmm11 | sudipto : sure will need you help here as well | 17:45 |
vilobhmm11 | thanks! | 17:45 |
vilobhmm11 | feel free to ping me if you have any queries | 17:45 |
vilobhmm11 | #topic open discussion | 17:45 |
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: quotas-wg)" | 17:45 | |
nikhil | are there any reviews ? :) | 17:46 |
vilobhmm11 | merged few of them yesterday | 17:46 |
vilobhmm11 | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/delimiter | 17:46 |
vilobhmm11 | everything that was out is merged now | 17:46 |
nikhil | looks like all josh and all merged :) | 17:46 |
nikhil | ok | 17:46 |
vilobhmm11 | yup ! | 17:46 |
nikhil | I want to propose DuncanT and sudipto for core if they are interested ? | 17:47 |
DuncanT | Sure, thanks | 17:47 |
vilobhmm11 | cool | 17:47 |
sudipto | Sure, thanks! | 17:47 |
vilobhmm11 | nice..welcome ! | 17:48 |
vilobhmm11 | so just to recap | 17:48 |
vilobhmm11 | source : https://github.com/openstack/delimiter | 17:48 |
vilobhmm11 | launchpad : https://launchpad.net/delimiter | 17:48 |
DuncanT | I suspect I won't provide much value until things have moved on slightly beyond where they are now and I've an actual picture in my head of what we're doing, but hopefully that is only a week or two away | 17:48 |
sudipto | +1 DuncanT | 17:48 |
nikhil | DuncanT: is your email first.last@gmail ? | 17:48 |
DuncanT | Yes | 17:49 |
nikhil | sudipto: DuncanT for cores you only get a free ping for review :) | 17:49 |
vilobhmm11 | DuncanT : np.. | 17:49 |
nikhil | done | 17:50 |
nikhil | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/admin/groups/1393,members | 17:50 |
vilobhmm11 | thanks nikhil | 17:50 |
nikhil | and | 17:50 |
nikhil | https://review.openstack.org/#/admin/groups/1394,members | 17:50 |
nikhil | đź‘Ť | 17:50 |
nikhil | ping me for reviews, I would like to wrap my head around gen_id stuff this week | 17:51 |
DuncanT | I'm much the same | 17:51 |
vilobhmm11 | Also to wrap up I would like to thank nikhil for representing delimiter and replying to all the ML thread and driving the CI related effort so precisely..thanks much nikhil..much appreciated | 17:51 |
vilobhmm11 | any other open discussion | 17:51 |
amrith | sorry, I lost my internet connection for 20m | 17:52 |
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amrith | DuncanT, vilobhmm11 I'm back. sorry abotu that | 17:52 |
vilobhmm11 | amrith : np we are about to wrap up…the open discussion is going on.. | 17:53 |
nikhil | đź‘Ť | 17:53 |
nikhil | my pleasure | 17:53 |
nikhil | I do want us to be on the same page with jay as much as possible | 17:53 |
tbarron | did you guys resolve yet whether delimiter will track resource usage or whether that will be done by the project who use delimiter? | 17:53 |
nikhil | but to do that, I need to understand him more than gen_id ;-) | 17:53 |
tbarron | apologies, but I am trying to catch up | 17:53 |
vilobhmm11 | tbarron : good question | 17:53 |
nikhil | tbarron: usage is recorded in the project | 17:53 |
amrith | DuncanT, are you open to a phone call right after? | 17:54 |
nikhil | tbarron: calculated at the compute time by delimiter | 17:54 |
vilobhmm11 | delimiter will be passed in with project usage record by the consuming project | 17:54 |
nikhil | vilobhmm11: ? | 17:54 |
DuncanT | amrith: Yes | 17:54 |
nikhil | vilobhmm11: if it's a simple number on the DB tables then I would agree. | 17:54 |
nikhil | vilobhmm11: do we need to have any more info on the usages? | 17:54 |
vilobhmm11 | and delimiter will compute the quota…based on info provided as nikhil mentioned above | 17:55 |
nikhil | ok | 17:55 |
vilobhmm11 | tbarron : does that answer your question | 17:55 |
tbarron | yes, at least at my current level of understanding | 17:55 |
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vilobhmm11 | in your case direct usage of # of volumes will be fetched from cinder.volumes | 17:56 |
vilobhmm11 | rather than relying on cinder.quota_usages | 17:56 |
tbarron | and you are still thinking of using, say, keystone to hold the actual resource limits per project, subproject, etc. | 17:56 |
tbarron | ? | 17:56 |
vilobhmm11 | nope the actual resource limits per projects will be fetched from respective projects and not keystone | 17:56 |
vilobhmm11 | keystone does not want to be a single hub for all data | 17:57 |
nikhil | (no, all data lives in the project DB tables except the tree hierarchy from keystone) | 17:57 |
vilobhmm11 | nikhil : +1 | 17:57 |
tbarron | vilobhmm11: ok, so tree hierarchy from keystone, and delimiter would know how to compute based on that hierarchy? | 17:58 |
vilobhmm11 | tbarron : yes | 17:58 |
vilobhmm11 | it will compute even if there is no hierarchy | 17:58 |
tbarron | vilobhmm11: sure | 17:58 |
vilobhmm11 | the objective is to comute irrespective of hiearchy or no hiearchy | 17:58 |
vilobhmm11 | tbarron : was that helpful ? | 17:59 |
tbarron | yes, again at this level :) | 17:59 |
vilobhmm11 | ok | 17:59 |
tbarron | i'm looking at manila quota reform :) | 17:59 |
vilobhmm11 | ok shouldn't be different than other projects | 17:59 |
tbarron | so will be following with interest | 17:59 |
sudipto | I will dare look at it for Nova. | 17:59 |
vilobhmm11 | please drop you suggestions here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/284454/ tbarron would be happy to see your requirement | 18:00 |
vilobhmm11 | alrite thats it for this week | 18:00 |
vilobhmm11 | #endmeeting | 18:00 |
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:00 | |
openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 17 18:00:42 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:00 |
openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/quotas_wg/2016/quotas_wg.2016-05-17-17.02.html | 18:00 |
openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/quotas_wg/2016/quotas_wg.2016-05-17-17.02.txt | 18:00 |
openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/quotas_wg/2016/quotas_wg.2016-05-17-17.02.log.html | 18:00 |
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nikhil | vilobhmm11: thanks for the excellent meeting!!! | 18:01 |
nikhil | we're making progress :) | 18:01 |
vilobhmm11 | :) | 18:01 |
vilobhmm11 | we both need to co-ordinate to get the sql driver out as early as we can…will ping offline | 18:02 |
vilobhmm11 | nikhil : ^^ | 18:02 |
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