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| ifat_afek | #startmeeting vitrage | 08:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 14 08:00:30 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ifat_afek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vitrage)" | 08:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'vitrage' | 08:00 |
| *** eyalb has joined #openstack-meeting-4 | 08:01 | |
| *** idan_hefetz has joined #openstack-meeting-4 | 08:01 | |
| eyalb | hi | 08:01 |
| idan_hefetz | Hi | 08:01 |
| *** alexey_weyl has joined #openstack-meeting-4 | 08:01 | |
| tovin07__ | o/ | 08:01 |
| alexey_weyl | hi | 08:01 |
| ifat_afek | Hi everyone! | 08:01 |
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| danoffek | Hi guys | 08:01 |
| nadav | hi | 08:01 |
| nofarsch | hi | 08:02 |
| ifat_afek | #topic Status and Updates | 08:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status and Updates (Meeting topic: vitrage)" | 08:03 | |
| ifat_afek | I created a Vitrage RoadMap page under our wiki page. I tried to list all activities we are currently involved in, as well as ones we wanted to do but might not be able to complete in Ocata | 08:03 |
| ifat_afek | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Vitrage/RoadMap | 08:03 |
| ifat_afek | Feel free to look, edit, add… and also implement of course if you are free | 08:03 |
| ifat_afek | Besides that, I started working on implementing Vitrage as a Doctor Inspector | 08:04 |
| ifat_afek | The first task is to write tests for Vitrage as an inspector. To complete this task, I first need to write a Doctor datasource in Vitrage, that will implement Doctor SB API | 08:04 |
| ifat_afek | #link https://gerrit.opnfv.org/gerrit/#/c/12179 | 08:04 |
| ifat_afek | I plan to write a blueprint and start the implementation in the coming days | 08:04 |
| ifat_afek | The next task would be to add Vitrage installation to OPNFV Apex installer. But to complete this, we need to have Red Hat support | 08:05 |
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| ifat_afek | eyalb: any progress with this? | 08:05 |
| eyalb | not much progress few more comments were added to the review | 08:06 |
| ifat_afek | ok | 08:06 |
| ifat_afek | Anyone wants to update? | 08:06 |
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| elisha_r | hi | 08:07 |
| alexey_weyl | I will updat | 08:07 |
| alexey_weyl | we had some gate problems last week due to infra and heat changes, and we fixed them | 08:07 |
| alexey_weyl | In addition, I have wrote a blueprint for a custom alarm in Aodh | 08:08 |
| alexey_weyl | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/408060/ | 08:08 |
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| alexey_weyl | I also sent an email to aodh about it | 08:08 |
| ifat_afek | alexey_weyl: I’ve seen it, looks good | 08:08 |
| alexey_weyl | but at the moment I dont have any feedbacks from the aodh team | 08:09 |
| ifat_afek | Did they review it alrady? | 08:09 |
| alexey_weyl | I will continue to talk with them about it and get their response | 08:09 |
| alexey_weyl | thats it | 08:09 |
| * yujunz reports that static datasource will be ready for review in a few days. | 08:09 | |
| ifat_afek | Ok. We need to get their approval, or at least their comments | 08:10 |
| ifat_afek | yujunz: great, thanks | 08:10 |
| yujunz | If somebody can help explain how to work with placeholder, it might be accelerated. | 08:10 |
| alexey_weyl | yujunz: great! we ware waiting for it | 08:10 |
| ifat_afek | We keep following your changes :-) | 08:10 |
| alexey_weyl | no problem, i will explain | 08:10 |
| ifat_afek | And please explain how you wrote the ‘*’ next to your name in *yujunz reports … | 08:11 |
| yujunz | Thanks, I'll ask in mailing list | 08:11 |
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| yujunz | use /me | 08:11 |
| * ifat_afek thanks | 08:11 | |
| alexey_weyl | ok, i will wait for your email to explain | 08:11 |
| * alexey_weyl NICEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE | 08:12 | |
| * alexey_weyl :) | 08:12 | |
| yujunz | After that, I may continue work on datasource skeleton generator | 08:12 |
| ifat_afek | ok, anyone else wants to update? | 08:12 |
| yujunz | If there is no other high priority tasks | 08:12 |
| eyalb | i will update | 08:13 |
| ifat_afek | yujunz: sounds great | 08:13 |
| ifat_afek | I actually plan to write a datasource these days, but I guess your skeleton won’t be ready yet | 08:13 |
| alexey_weyl | sounds great, I will try to think if there might be some more important issue to work on | 08:14 |
| ifat_afek | Regarding the tasks, I just listed the important ones in the road map page, but of course you can work on whatever is important to you | 08:14 |
| yujunz | I guess so, since I need more time to study how datasource works. | 08:15 |
| ifat_afek | of course | 08:15 |
| alexey_weyl | yujunz: if you have any questions, just send an email and we will be glad to help you :) | 08:15 |
| yujunz | Thank you in advance alexey_weyl and all vitragers | 08:16 |
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| ifat_afek | eyalb: you wanted to update? | 08:17 |
| eyalb | yes | 08:17 |
| eyalb | still working on the collectd datasource | 08:18 |
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| eyalb | i was able to write a python plugin that will send notifications on the bus to vitrage | 08:18 |
| eyalb | now i need to write the vitrage side | 08:19 |
| eyalb | thats all | 08:19 |
| ifat_afek | eyalb: sounds great | 08:19 |
| ifat_afek | thanks | 08:19 |
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| ifat_afek | anyone else wants to update? | 08:19 |
| ifat_afek | or any other issue to discuss before I close the meeting? | 08:21 |
| yujunz | By the way, how do we usually call ourselves? | 08:21 |
| yujunz | Vitragers? | 08:21 |
| alexey_weyl | That sound nice :) | 08:21 |
| ifat_afek | We never used this term :-) or any other | 08:21 |
| ifat_afek | But I agree it sounds nice | 08:21 |
| ifat_afek | So we can adopt it | 08:21 |
| yujunz | Just try to find something to starting a new message in mailing list | 08:22 |
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| ifat_afek | That would be a good start indeed :-) | 08:22 |
| idan_hefetz | +1 | 08:22 |
| danoffek | Nope | 08:23 |
| ifat_afek | danoffek: so suggest something else | 08:23 |
| danoffek | It's a good start, let's take it to the next level | 08:23 |
| yujunz | In doctor project it is easy, we call ourselves doctors :-) | 08:24 |
| ifat_afek | :-) | 08:24 |
| yujunz | In QTIP project, runners, since we run benchmarks | 08:24 |
| yujunz | And the core module is called runner | 08:24 |
| danoffek | Well, so does elisha_rosentzweig | 08:24 |
| ifat_afek | that’s less obvious... | 08:24 |
| ifat_afek | you mean he’s a doctor too | 08:25 |
| ifat_afek | I wonder what Aodh does ;-) | 08:25 |
| danoffek | In doctor, it's a good one. | 08:25 |
| danoffek | So, the next idea would be "giraffes", but I wouldn't go with a shirt naming me "giraffe" | 08:26 |
| ifat_afek | First we need to convince OpenStack illustrator to design a nicer giraffe than the previous one | 08:27 |
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| ifat_afek | And personally I prever Vitragers over Giraffes… | 08:27 |
| yujunz | Or root cause digger => diggers | 08:27 |
| ifat_afek | prefer | 08:27 |
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| danoffek | I root for this idea | 08:27 |
| danoffek | Diggers is nicer | 08:27 |
| ifat_afek | Ok, I guess we won’t reach a conclusion today… | 08:29 |
| ifat_afek | yujunz: feel free to call us however you want in your mail :-) | 08:29 |
| yujunz | OK | 08:30 |
| ifat_afek | Any other issue to discuss? | 08:30 |
| ifat_afek | Ok, let’s close the meeting | 08:32 |
| nofarsch | can we design our own giraffe? | 08:32 |
| ifat_afek | nofarsch: Hi! | 08:33 |
| nofarsch | haha hi | 08:33 |
| nofarsch | if it takes a long time or there aren't any resources let's just design our own | 08:33 |
| ifat_afek | Unfortunately we can’t. There is one illustrator that designed the mascots of all projects. I sent him an example of what we wanted our giraffe to look like, and he designed something else | 08:34 |
| nofarsch | I know, we've talked about it | 08:34 |
| nofarsch | did he respond? | 08:34 |
| ifat_afek | It might be a good idea to ping the woman who organized it, and ask if our feedback was accepted | 08:34 |
| nofarsch | ok | 08:35 |
| ifat_afek | I didn’t contact him (or her?) directly | 08:35 |
| nofarsch | and btw about the nickname, I suggest Root causers :P | 08:35 |
| ifat_afek | But thanks for the reminder, we deserve a nice giraffe! | 08:35 |
| nofarsch | yes we do! | 08:35 |
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| ifat_afek | +1 to root causers | 08:35 |
| nofarsch | now you can close the meeting :) | 08:36 |
| danoffek | root root for Nofar | 08:36 |
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| danoffek | +2 | 08:36 |
| nofarsch | yay! | 08:36 |
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| ifat_afek | Ok, closing the meeting | 08:36 |
| ifat_afek | See you next week | 08:36 |
| eyalb | bye | 08:36 |
| nbloom | bye | 08:36 |
| nofarsch | bye guys! see you soon | 08:36 |
| ifat_afek | #endmeeting | 08:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:37 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 14 08:37:19 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:37 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vitrage/2016/vitrage.2016-12-14-08.00.html | 08:37 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vitrage/2016/vitrage.2016-12-14-08.00.txt | 08:37 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vitrage/2016/vitrage.2016-12-14-08.00.log.html | 08:37 |
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| alex_xu | #startmeeting nova api | 13:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 14 13:00:09 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is alex_xu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_api' | 13:00 |
| alex_xu | who is here today? | 13:00 |
| gmann | o/ | 13:00 |
| Kevin_Zheng | o/ | 13:01 |
| sdague | o/ | 13:01 |
| alex_xu | first, let me give a quick update before we jump in the filters.... | 13:01 |
| alex_xu | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ocata-nova-priorities-tracking | 13:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy | o/ | 13:02 |
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| alex_xu | the server side patch of the deprecation of image-metadata is merged | 13:02 |
| alex_xu | and I feel the pagination of single_tenant_usage is close | 13:03 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/386093 | 13:03 |
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| alex_xu | so we have better give more attension for other api patches, hope we can merge them all | 13:03 |
| alex_xu | #topic API Priorities | 13:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API Priorities (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 13:04 | |
| alex_xu | so....i think we can begin to talk about filters again. I have two points for it today | 13:04 |
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| alex_xu | first is about the policy rule, sdague have concern on it, it make the API behaviour different without any discoverable way. | 13:05 |
| alex_xu | as I remember johnthetubaguy have point that the user don't want to remove it? | 13:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | I am worried operators rely on those, given their comments at the summit | 13:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | the policy idea was a way to relax the restrictions in some clouds where its really wanted | 13:06 |
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| johnthetubaguy | (with a view towards capabilities API fixing discoverability eventually) | 13:06 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: did we get any comments about which filters people were concerned about? | 13:07 |
| alex_xu | yea, I +1 for that also. but I can't answer the question of behaviour change | 13:07 |
| sdague | I *really* don't want to make this a config option | 13:07 |
| sdague | I would much rather add in things people are concerned about being dropped | 13:07 |
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| alex_xu | emm....maybe we should discussion the second problem first. That may change which filters we want to remove | 13:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: basically no, they seemed to want everything for admins | 13:08 |
| alex_xu | s/discussion/discuss | 13:08 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: define everything | 13:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: well all API visible properties, filter and sorting, but I don't think we have that today, it wasn't really a useful data point I guess | 13:09 |
| sdague | right | 13:09 |
| sdague | here is the thing, we either decide we're going to define this, so the behavior is known | 13:10 |
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| sdague | or we decide we aren't, and then any db changes randomly break people with no warning in the future | 13:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | right, I am on the define side of things, for sure, the status quo is stupid | 13:11 |
| alex_xu | actualy only one db index can be used in the query....so I feel we can keep all the filters, due to most of them won't get benefit from index | 13:11 |
| sdague | because exposing that policy point / config actually means we're saying "have raw access to our db... but no guaruntees that any of these things will keep working" | 13:11 |
| sdague | alex_xu: yeh, without building a ton of indexes, that's a whole other challenge | 13:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | but when it came to jay's worries about shrinking the set of allowed things, I was basically saying we have an always allowed set, and some extra we allow only for admins (but there is a policy to change that) | 13:12 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: is that concern posted somewhere? still catching up. | 13:12 |
| alex_xu | sdague: so that means the rest of those filters kept can't get benefit from index also. so keep one or keep all are no different | 13:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | I don't believe anyone is arguing for unrestricted | 13:12 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: ok, I guess I'm confused, what are you arguing for? | 13:13 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sdague: I thought that was in the comments in the spec, but unsure | 13:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I should describe my preference here | 13:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | first there is a set of things we allow for filter and sort, they should be limited to things that work today, and match properties we have in the API (ideally) | 13:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | now, come the performance concerns, should we reduce the set further to those that don't cause big performance issues, a smaller set | 13:14 |
| alex_xu | only the db index 'instances_project_id_deleted_idx' is used. So the result already shrink to single tenant, then even other filters can't get benefit from index it is fine | 13:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | there are some that only make sense for admins (like project_id filters, or host filters) | 13:15 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: the only bad one is admin with all_tenant=1 | 13:15 |
| sdague | ok, so lets see where we have common ground. | 13:15 |
| alex_xu | we should encourge admin user list with all_tenant=0 | 13:15 |
| sdague | 1) agree that we should build this as a smaller set | 13:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 | 13:16 |
| sdague | well defined, matching the API for names (not random db tables) | 13:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 | 13:16 |
| alex_xu | emm...+1 for second one | 13:16 |
| sdague | 2) all filters are indexed | 13:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | (I guess the second one makes the first one true, but either way) | 13:17 |
| sdague | my feeling on this is that I'm ok fixing this by adding more indexes | 13:17 |
| sdague | not dropping filters | 13:17 |
| sdague | I'm also ok punting on this, because it's a performance improvement that also gets odd if we use searchlight anyway | 13:18 |
| gmann | but that way list can be smaller ? | 13:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I am not sure (2) is actually required, I would say, we should remove end use DOS attack vectors | 13:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, search light does confuse these things | 13:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | s/ // | 13:18 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: yeh, well dropping the join tables for query mitigates that | 13:18 |
| sdague | the worst things are going to be removed | 13:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: yeah, maybe thats enough | 13:18 |
| sdague | then we're just doing filter / sort on unindexed values | 13:19 |
| sdague | which sucks | 13:19 |
| sdague | but it something a site can local patch if they see a ton of it | 13:19 |
| sdague | 3) admin vs. non admin properties | 13:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | so the big text columns, as I understand it, adding an index is more expensive to maintain than what it agains you, at least I hear that needs to be checked | 13:19 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: sure, that makes sense | 13:19 |
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| sdague | how many bigtext columns are we thinking will be in the list here? | 13:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | name? | 13:20 |
| sdague | I hope we mostly pulled them out | 13:20 |
| sdague | that's varchar(255) | 13:20 |
| alex_xu | name is regex matching, it can't get benefit from db index | 13:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I wasn't every clear, it sounds like that might already by not worth an index, but we need to check that | 13:20 |
| sdague | right, the regex issue is a whole other issue | 13:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, lets table that discussion for now | 13:21 |
| sdague | especially because that's not going to be supportable with elastic search (searching there is different) | 13:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 | 13:21 |
| sdague | ok, so I think on #3 | 13:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah | 13:21 |
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| sdague | my feeling is most of the admin vs. non-admin is artificial | 13:22 |
| sdague | excepting nodenames | 13:22 |
| sdague | so, project_id, no reason to exclude that for non admin | 13:22 |
| sdague | because they are already scoped | 13:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | true, it just returns zero results I guess | 13:22 |
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| sdague | and... in the future of hierarchical multi tenancy, it actually will mean something for non cloud admin | 13:23 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yep, thats true | 13:23 |
| sdague | so just start with the basic assumption that we try to make everything the same between the 2 groups | 13:23 |
| sdague | the only place this can't be is when things start leaking cloud topology | 13:23 |
| sdague | which is the node/host fields | 13:23 |
| alex_xu | yea | 13:24 |
| sdague | so, short term, that's the only admin adds | 13:24 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, no breaking out of token scope, and no topology leak, agreed with that | 13:24 |
| sdague | longer term, it would honestly be nice if those fields did expose to normal users, in the hashed format | 13:24 |
| sdague | and could be filtered sorted | 13:24 |
| * johnthetubaguy forgot thats not upstream already... I guess | 13:25 | |
| alex_xu | we have that in the api response | 13:25 |
| sdague | so the difference isn't the filter/query side, it's just in the representation used, whether or not we are hiding topology | 13:25 |
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| alex_xu | but calculated in the python, so can't filter and sort | 13:25 |
| sdague | alex_xu: right, so it's not an Ocata thing | 13:25 |
| sdague | but, something we should figure out if there is a way forward on in Pike+ | 13:26 |
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| alex_xu | yea | 13:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, its hashed on tenant_id, so I guess which tenant_id will be used for each instance | 13:26 |
| sdague | alex_xu: because, we totally could calculate it in the db | 13:26 |
| alex_xu | sdague: got it | 13:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, thats what I was thinking | 13:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, keeping moving | 13:26 |
| sdague | so... | 13:26 |
| sdague | I'm hoping this means we've agreed to the following: | 13:27 |
| sdague | 1) we should have a strict whitelist | 13:27 |
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| sdague | 2) it's ok to defer the issue that everything in the whitelist has an index | 13:27 |
| sdague | 3) the admin list differences should only be node/host - and that's a temporary stop gap until we have the better story there | 13:28 |
| alex_xu | I feel we can't have everthing have an index. anyway that is second question we will discuss | 13:28 |
| sdague | alex_xu: I agree with you | 13:28 |
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| alex_xu | sdague: ok, now i feel same page with you :) | 13:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | I am +1 for all three | 13:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | still getting my head around (3), I like its simplicity | 13:29 |
| sdague | alex_xu: I think we probably want to write up some doc about performance tuning filters, knowing that we're going to do our best here, but that site specific workloads might be using filters we didn't see as high priority | 13:30 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I was only trying policy instead of (2) as a compromise with those against (2), but its great to avoid that | 13:31 |
| alex_xu | sdague: ah, that is good idea | 13:31 |
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| alex_xu | and we should suggestion user don't user all_tenant=1 | 13:31 |
| sdague | I also think that searchlight being needed for cells v2 ... a bunch of the performance characteristics are going to change | 13:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: so the token scope wins, so its meaningless I think | 13:31 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: right, that | 13:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: +1 that blows the old rules out the water | 13:32 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: sorry, I didn't get that | 13:32 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: which is why I'm fine on defering #2, because it's going to change again, so not make guaruntees | 13:32 |
| sdague | alex_xu: we should be doing the token scoping of queries such that all_tenant means "all tenants I can see" | 13:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: yeah | 13:33 |
| sdague | if role=admin, that's everything | 13:33 |
| sdague | if not, that's a smaller thing | 13:33 |
| sdague | which is just your own | 13:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I like that view | 13:33 |
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| sdague | in hierarchical multi tenancy it would be from your part of the tree down | 13:33 |
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| johnthetubaguy | right now restricting to "what I can see" adds the where clause that hits the index we want to hit | 13:34 |
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| * alex_xu probably understand | 13:34 | |
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| sdague | think of it like: `ps` vs `ps a` | 13:35 |
| sdague | sorry, `ps` vs `ps x` | 13:35 |
| sdague | by default, show me mine | 13:36 |
| sdague | but I can ask to see everything I'm allowed | 13:36 |
| sdague | under container systems, ps x is returning very small amount of stuff | 13:36 |
| sdague | because you aren't allowed the whole system | 13:36 |
| alex_xu | emm...ok | 13:37 |
| sdague | alex_xu: did I make it less clear? :) | 13:38 |
| * johnthetubaguy things he should stop doing "sudo ps ax" | 13:38 | |
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| gmann | :) | 13:39 |
| sdague | heh | 13:39 |
| alex_xu | sdague: I guess, you are looking for hierarchical multi tenancy, that is more than all_tenants | 13:39 |
| Kevin_Zheng | ：） | 13:39 |
| * johnthetubaguy makes hammer bashing noises | 13:39 | |
| alex_xu | :) | 13:39 |
| alex_xu | never mind, maybe I just need to read the meeting log again :) | 13:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: thanks for that, loving (2) and (3), I think thats a good re-starting point | 13:40 |
| sdague | alex_xu: yeh, I'm just saying we clarify the meaning of all_tenants now to one that is compatible with future multi tenancy | 13:40 |
| alex_xu | sdague: oh yeah, i think i understand | 13:41 |
| alex_xu | so we can forget the policy now? | 13:41 |
| sdague | alex_xu: I hope so | 13:42 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: ^^^ ? | 13:42 |
| alex_xu | ok, that point didn't resolve yet :) | 13:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | I like your breakdown of the issue basically | 13:42 |
| * alex_xu is still in lost | 13:42 | |
| sdague | ok, I thought that with 1), as long as we keep that whitelist large enough, there is no need for the policy | 13:42 |
| sdague | the issue with the policy was if we restricted the list further in 2) to only match indexes, we removed things people needed | 13:43 |
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| johnthetubaguy | its (2) that stops the policy for me, I always wanted (1), but either way | 13:43 |
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| sdague | if we are ok leaving things in the whitelist that don't have indexes, we do not need the policy point | 13:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah | 13:44 |
| sdague | and I think that's a better trade off. Some queries are slower than they could be, but we aren't making the behavior site specific. | 13:44 |
| sdague | knowing in one or two cycles the performance of searches is going to change dramatically anyway | 13:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I am not too fussed with the performance, as for non-admins I don't think its ever going to break too badly | 13:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | I was trying to compromise with the folks that cared about the performance, but it left us in a worse position | 13:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | for the folks super worried about performance, I think this can be accepted as a step in the right direction | 13:46 |
| sdague | yeh | 13:47 |
| sdague | it also gives us an idea of what we'd want to ask out of optimizing in searchlight | 13:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, very true | 13:47 |
| sdague | as we'll say "here are the fields we let people filter on" | 13:47 |
| sdague | what can we do with those? | 13:47 |
| sdague | ok... so I guess, what are the actions to move this forward? | 13:48 |
| alex_xu | yea...I just want to ask that. I feel i'm still in lost status. | 13:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | update the spec, update the prototypes? | 13:49 |
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| alex_xu | so....for now, what I should keep in the whitelist? | 13:49 |
| sdague | ok, so how about this: | 13:50 |
| johnthetubaguy | everything thats in the API response, and works today, I guess? | 13:50 |
| alex_xu | ok | 13:50 |
| sdague | 1) johnthetubaguy verify the whitelist looks sane to him (he has the most interaction with ops here) | 13:50 |
| sdague | should we take the summary out to the ML for context? | 13:50 |
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| alex_xu | that sounds better | 13:51 |
| sdague | because the spec is getting sliced and diced and sometimes I think the forest is lost for the trees | 13:51 |
| Kevin_Zheng | yeah | 13:51 |
| * gmann need to read all review comments also. ll be nice to learn lot of things. | 13:51 | |
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| sdague | 2) sdague to write summary of current high level agreement | 13:51 |
| sdague | to ML | 13:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | I am good with the ML, it might be a good point to start a new spec honestly | 13:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | should be the same change-id, but start over might help here | 13:52 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: yeh, well, we're so late at this point, I think we need to figure out how the spec lands ASAP | 13:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: true | 13:53 |
| sdague | alex_xu / Kevin_Zheng can we start coding this in parallel assuming this will be the agreement? | 13:53 |
| Kevin_Zheng | sure | 13:53 |
| alex_xu | sdague: yea, after I figure out the plan from your summary :) | 13:53 |
| johnthetubaguy | we have the validation framework already up I guess? | 13:54 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bp/add-whitelist-for-server-list-filter-sort-parameters | 13:54 |
| sdague | alex_xu: ok, well I'll make breakfast first, then write up that email :) | 13:54 |
| johnthetubaguy | well, just is all about tweaking the whitelist, it can start from the old one I guess | 13:54 |
| Kevin_Zheng | I will keep sync with alex | 13:54 |
| alex_xu | ^ yea the top two patches | 13:54 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: yeh, honestly, I'm good with whatever you sign off on for the whitelist | 13:54 |
| alex_xu | sdague: thanks :) | 13:54 |
| sdague | we'll make you the required ACK for that | 13:54 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK | 13:55 |
| sdague | and we'll try to get this all sorted by the end of the week? | 13:55 |
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| sdague | A week from now is my last day in the office for the year | 13:55 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think we have to, thats a good goal | 13:55 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, same | 13:55 |
| johnthetubaguy | actually, its a week yesterday for me | 13:55 |
| alex_xu | so will we have meeting next week? | 13:56 |
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| johnthetubaguy | maybe? lets keep in close contact over the week though | 13:58 |
| alex_xu | ok, cool | 13:58 |
| alex_xu | 2 mins left | 13:58 |
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| alex_xu | who is updating the spec? | 13:58 |
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| alex_xu | ok... it time close the meeting | 14:00 |
| alex_xu | thanks all | 14:00 |
| alex_xu | #endmeeting | 14:00 |
| gmann | thanks all | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 14 14:00:16 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2016/nova_api.2016-12-14-13.00.html | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2016/nova_api.2016-12-14-13.00.txt | 14:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2016/nova_api.2016-12-14-13.00.log.html | 14:00 |
| *** dkusidlo has joined #openstack-meeting-4 | 14:01 | |
| sballe_ | Hi | 14:01 |
| Yumeng | hi | 14:02 |
| acabot | #startmeeting watcher | 14:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 14 14:02:21 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is acabot. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: watcher)" | 14:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'watcher' | 14:02 |
| atuly | hi | 14:02 |
| acabot | hi everyone | 14:02 |
| dtardivel | hi | 14:02 |
| tmetsch | hi | 14:02 |
| acabot | sorry to be late | 14:02 |
| hanrong1 | hi | 14:02 |
| chrisspencer | o/ morning | 14:02 |
| sballe_ | Hi | 14:02 |
| acabot | our agenda for today #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Watcher_Meeting_Agenda#12.2F14.2F2016 | 14:02 |
| sballe_ | I am on my phone so typing is slow | 14:03 |
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| acabot | sballe_ : :-) ok I will let you more than to 2 sec to answer | 14:03 |
| sballe_ | thx | 14:03 |
| acabot | #topic Announcements | 14:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: watcher)" | 14:04 | |
| sballe_ | my internet is back now :) | 14:04 |
| acabot | #info we had a couple of gate issues last days due to upper constraints | 14:04 |
| acabot | thx licanwei for fixing it | 14:04 |
| sballe_ | +1 | 14:04 |
| acabot | and dtardivel for reviews ;-) | 14:04 |
| sballe_ | +1 | 14:04 |
| acabot | #info Watcher mid-cycle will be held in Atlanta in February Wednesday 22nd & Thursday 23rd | 14:04 |
| acabot | #link http://www.openstack.org/ptg | 14:05 |
| acabot | it will be at the PTG event with other openstack team | 14:05 |
| acabot | you need to register on eventbrite https://www.eventbrite.com/e/project-teams-gathering-tickets-27549298694 | 14:05 |
| sballe_ | who has signed up ? | 14:05 |
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| atuly | This time i am also attend this time if visa is issued ;-) | 14:05 |
| acabot | we will be 2 from b-com dtardivel & I | 14:05 |
| alexchadin | hello! | 14:05 |
| acabot | hi alexchadin | 14:06 |
| acabot | alexchadin : do you plan to be in Atlanta ? | 14:06 |
| sballe_ | ok we are 3 from intel. me, pshedimb and chrisspencer | 14:06 |
| acabot | tmetsch : do you want to join ? | 14:06 |
| sballe_ | atuly: do you need anythign for your visa | 14:06 |
| atuly | i already got IL | 14:06 |
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| tmetsch | acabot: I'd be interested for sure. will check. | 14:06 |
| alexchadin | acabot: I think no:( | 14:07 |
| atuly | depends on budget also ;-) | 14:07 |
| atuly | any chance for sponsership . | 14:07 |
| acabot | alexchadin : ok we will try to have a hangout session (I hope timeshift will be ok for you) | 14:07 |
| alexchadin | acabot: It would be great | 14:07 |
| sballe_ | atuly: not sure. have you looked at #link http://www.openstack.org/ptg | 14:07 |
| atuly | yes | 14:08 |
| Yumeng | acabot: what's the deadline for registration ? | 14:08 |
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| acabot | ok we should be at least 6 (3 Intel, 2 b-com, jwcroppe for IBM) | 14:08 |
| acabot | and Walmart will probably be there as well | 14:08 |
| acabot | around 10 people would be great | 14:08 |
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| sballe_ | yes I talked to hvprash_ and he was going ot be there | 14:08 |
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| acabot | Yumeng : February 20th | 14:09 |
| acabot | FYI, you have to buy a $100 ticket for the PTG but it includes a full pass for the Boston summit | 14:10 |
| atuly | ok | 14:10 |
| acabot | lets move to reviews as we have many things today... | 14:10 |
| acabot | #action Review Action Items | 14:10 |
| acabot | #undo | 14:11 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0x7fc56902db90> | 14:11 |
| acabot | #topic Review Action Items | 14:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: watcher)" | 14:11 | |
| acabot | Specs | 14:11 |
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| acabot | Define grammar for workload characterization needs a new PS an answering previous comments | 14:11 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/377100/ | 14:11 |
| sballe_ | I am looking at it with hvprash | 14:11 |
| acabot | #action hvprash sballe_ add a new PS for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/377100/ | 14:12 |
| acabot | Support Description For Dynamic Action needs completion | 14:12 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/401111/ | 14:12 |
| hanrong1 | yes, I will | 14:12 |
| acabot | thx | 14:12 |
| acabot | and hello hanrong1 ;-) | 14:12 |
| hanrong1 | :) | 14:12 |
| acabot | #action hanrong1 complete spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/401111/ | 14:12 |
| acabot | Add specs for cache occupancy strategy needs a new PS | 14:13 |
| acabot | Add specs for cache occupancy strategy needs a new PS | 14:13 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/398162/ | 14:13 |
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| sballe_ | yeah pshedimb and I working on it. | 14:14 |
| acabot | sballe_ : I'm concerned about this spec because the associated BP has 2 BPs dependancies that have not been implemented yet | 14:14 |
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| acabot | I'm really not sure we can have it in Ocata | 14:14 |
| sballe_ | acabot: then let's undo the dependencies. Because right now we are looking at the algorithms and pshedimb will start implementing so we can iterate over the algorithm | 14:15 |
| acabot | I hoped that characterization grammar would have been done earlier | 14:15 |
| sballe_ | the issue here is thta when we put out the spec we called it cache occupancy and it should really be noisy neighbor strategy | 14:15 |
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| acabot | sballe_ : why dont you rename it ? | 14:16 |
| acabot | sballe_ : it would be more readable | 14:16 |
| sballe_ | ok will do. | 14:16 |
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| acabot | lets discuss dependencies in open discussions | 14:16 |
| acabot | Audit tag in VM Metadata needs final reviews from core | 14:16 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/391374/ | 14:16 |
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| sballe_ | and it also ties much closer to the QoS BP so we might just replace the QOS BP with the noisy neightbor BP | 14:17 |
| acabot | #action sballe_ jwcroppe hvprash review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/391374/ | 14:17 |
| acabot | Add improvements to the planner and workflow mechanisms needs a jenkins fix & reviews | 14:18 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/385871/ | 14:18 |
| acabot | alexchadin : do you need help with jenkins fix ? | 14:18 |
| sballe_ | alexchadin: when you do you will be my hero :) | 14:18 |
| sballe_ | jenkins has been a pain | 14:18 |
| alexchadin | acabot: I will make it myself:) | 14:19 |
| alexchadin | acabot: Just have a little time because of end of year | 14:19 |
| acabot | thx | 14:19 |
| sballe_ | alexchadin: if you need help I believe pshedimb can help | 14:19 |
| acabot | #action alexchadin fix jenkins for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/385871/ | 14:19 |
| alexchadin | sballe_: ok, thanks! | 14:19 |
| acabot | who wants to review this important spec ? | 14:19 |
| sballe_ | the jenkins fix? | 14:20 |
| acabot | after jenkins fix :-) | 14:20 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/385871/ | 14:20 |
| alexchadin | acabot: I've started to write Applier spec, hope it will be available to review by EOW | 14:20 |
| acabot | alexchadin : great, I moved it to ocata-3 scope | 14:20 |
| alexchadin | acabot: ok, cool | 14:21 |
| acabot | moving to Watcher code | 14:21 |
| acabot | ocata-2 release is due tomorrow | 14:21 |
| acabot | so we have a lot of code to merge | 14:21 |
| acabot | centralise-config-opts must be merged | 14:21 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/watcher+branch:master+topic:bp/centralise-config-opts | 14:21 |
| dtardivel | on going got this one | 14:21 |
| alexchadin | acabot: I will review it ASAP | 14:21 |
| dtardivel | for this one | 14:22 |
| acabot | thx alexchadin, dtardivel is already merging them one by one | 14:22 |
| dtardivel | I need to rebase locally a lot of changesets. I will take time because gate is slow ... | 14:22 |
| acabot | update strategy table when parameters_spec changes must be merged | 14:22 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/408411/ | 14:22 |
| acabot | alexchadin can you W+1 ? | 14:23 |
| dtardivel | alexchadin: can you merge this one ? | 14:23 |
| alexchadin | dtardivel: acabot: ok | 14:23 |
| acabot | #action alexchadin review & W+1 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/408411/ | 14:23 |
| acabot | Add auto_trigger support to watcher needs final reviews & merge | 14:23 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/403718/ | 14:24 |
| dtardivel | but after I finish with config-opt please .... :) | 14:24 |
| acabot | #action dtardivel review and merge https://review.openstack.org/#/c/403718/ | 14:24 |
| acabot | New default planner needs final reviews & merge | 14:25 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/406991/ | 14:25 |
| dtardivel | +1 | 14:25 |
| acabot | alexchadin : can you fix licanwei comment ? | 14:25 |
| acabot | before dtardivel starts reviewing | 14:26 |
| alexchadin | acabot: I will do till end of this day | 14:26 |
| acabot | thx | 14:26 |
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| alexchadin | acabot: a lot of work, sorry | 14:26 |
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| acabot | #action alexchadin fix comment for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/406991/ | 14:27 |
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| acabot | check the state of action plan needs final reviews & merge | 14:27 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/391383/ | 14:27 |
| acabot | who wants to review it ? | 14:27 |
| Yumeng | +1 | 14:27 |
| * exploreshaifali wants to | 14:27 | |
| dtardivel | +1 | 14:28 |
| acabot | #action Yumeng exploreshaifali review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/391383/ | 14:28 |
| atuly | +1 | 14:28 |
| acabot | #action dtardivel review & merge https://review.openstack.org/#/c/391383/ | 14:28 |
| acabot | #action atuly review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/391383/ | 14:28 |
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| acabot | please keep in mind that we need your reviews before tomorrow EOD | 14:28 |
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| exploreshaifali | okay | 14:29 |
| atuly | ok | 14:29 |
| acabot | Repair log parameter error needs a bug reference & reviews | 14:29 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/407901/ | 14:29 |
| acabot | #action licanwei submit a new bug and add bug ID to patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/407901/ | 14:29 |
| acabot | who wants to review it ? | 14:30 |
| atuly | I think bug is already there | 14:30 |
| * exploreshaifali wants to | 14:30 | |
| acabot | atuly : bug # ? | 14:30 |
| atuly | sorry got confused with other review.. | 14:30 |
| acabot | #action exploreshaifali review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/407901/ | 14:30 |
| acabot | atuly : ok ;-) | 14:30 |
| acabot | #action dtardivel review and merge https://review.openstack.org/#/c/407901/ | 14:31 |
| acabot | Watcher CLI | 14:31 |
| acabot | Add auto_trigger support needs reviews & merge | 14:31 |
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| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/403716/ | 14:31 |
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| dtardivel | +1 | 14:32 |
| acabot | #action dtardivel review & merge https://review.openstack.org/#/c/403716/ | 14:32 |
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| acabot | Support parents field along with planner changes needs reviews & merge | 14:32 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/409632/ | 14:32 |
| Yumeng | opps. sorry.. I may not be able to review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/391383/ before tomorrow EOD.. already late night in my time.. | 14:32 |
| acabot | already merged :-) | 14:32 |
| sballe_ | ll | 14:32 |
| sballe_ | lol | 14:32 |
| acabot | Yumeng : ok no pb | 14:33 |
| acabot | wrong link...let me check | 14:33 |
| acabot | #undo | 14:33 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/409632/ | 14:33 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/409126/ | 14:34 |
| acabot | sorry | 14:34 |
| acabot | who wants to review ? | 14:34 |
| acabot | this patch needs reviews before being merged tomorrow | 14:34 |
| exploreshaifali | +1 | 14:34 |
| atuly | +1 | 14:34 |
| acabot | 14 lines ;-) | 14:35 |
| acabot | thx | 14:35 |
| exploreshaifali | haha | 14:35 |
| acabot | #action exploreshaifali atuly review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/409126/ | 14:35 |
| acabot | #action dtardivel review and merge https://review.openstack.org/#/c/409126/ | 14:35 |
| acabot | dtardivel has a lot of merge to do so please try to help him with +1 reviews | 14:36 |
| dtardivel | yep, thx | 14:36 |
| acabot | #topic Blueprint/Bug Review and Discussion | 14:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprint/Bug Review and Discussion (Meeting topic: watcher)" | 14:36 | |
| atuly | i may be able to review only be tomrw morning.. | 14:36 |
| acabot | atuly : tomorrow morning your time is fine | 14:36 |
| atuly | okay | 14:37 |
| acabot | atuly : we will release tomorrow around 2pm GMT | 14:37 |
| acabot | same time as the current meeting | 14:37 |
| atuly | ok :) | 14:37 |
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| acabot | #info Watcher ocata-2 must be released tomorrow December 15th | 14:37 |
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| acabot | #link https://launchpad.net/watcher/+milestone/ocata-2 | 14:37 |
| acabot | I have moved all unimplemented BPs to ocata-3 | 14:38 |
| sballe_ | Can I ask a question? I have two doc spec and people keep on adding stuff to the comments. I am happy to oblige but will need a +2 after people have given it +1s | 14:38 |
| acabot | We are targeting 4 BPs & 7 bugs fixed | 14:39 |
| dtardivel | sballe_: links ? | 14:39 |
| acabot | #link https://review.openstack.org/404960 & https://review.openstack.org/404972 | 14:40 |
| sballe_ | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/404972/6 and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/404960/3 | 14:40 |
| acabot | sballe_ : thats right, we need to merge them | 14:40 |
| acabot | #action acabot dtardivel review and merge https://review.openstack.org/404972 & https://review.openstack.org/404960 | 14:41 |
| sballe_ | I'fix the latest comments and then let's merge them. for example some of the comments are true for past doc as well | 14:41 |
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| acabot | sballe_ : please add a new PS asap, I will review it by EOD | 14:41 |
| dtardivel | yes but after you take into account last -1 comment :) please | 14:41 |
| sballe_ | I will do it withing ht enext hour | 14:41 |
| acabot | thx | 14:41 |
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| acabot | #info Improve Applier to execute Actions in parallel has been added | 14:41 |
| sballe_ | dtardivel: of course. | 14:42 |
| acabot | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/watcher/+spec/parallel-applier | 14:42 |
| dtardivel | sballe_: please ping me if you need help | 14:42 |
| acabot | as alexchadin has been splitted in 2 | 14:42 |
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| acabot | :-) | 14:42 |
| acabot | alexchadin BP has been splitted | 14:42 |
| sballe_ | the issue is that if you go back into the older doc the same comment-1 is tru for some of those. how do we want to deal with that | 14:42 |
| alexchadin | :D | 14:42 |
| sballe_ | dtardivel: ^ | 14:42 |
| acabot | sballe_ : please move this discussion to #openstack-watcher | 14:43 |
| sballe_ | ok | 14:43 |
| acabot | is vm-migration-ordering dependent on Improve Applier to execute Actions in parallel ? | 14:43 |
| acabot | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/watcher/+spec/vm-migration-ordering | 14:44 |
| acabot | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/watcher/+spec/parallel-applier | 14:44 |
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| acabot | alexchadin : I think we have a dependency here with the new BP you submitted, what do you think ? | 14:44 |
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| alexchadin | acabot: seems that this BP propose to set actions order by strategies | 14:45 |
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| alexchadin | action's* | 14:46 |
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| alexchadin | acabot: looks like dependency, yes | 14:47 |
| acabot | alexchadin : so does it mean we should keep them separated ? | 14:47 |
| alexchadin | acabot: yes, absolutely | 14:47 |
| acabot | I think VM migration ordering would be dependant from your BP | 14:47 |
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| alexchadin | acabot: I need more info about these proposing things | 14:47 |
| alexchadin | acabot: yes | 14:47 |
| *** sdkae is now known as sdake | 14:48 | |
| acabot | ok dependency added | 14:48 |
| acabot | Strategy to detect and migrate the the cache greedy VM affecting other's performance is dependent on Define grammar for workload characterization & Workload Characterization and QoS which have not been started yet, I would suggest to postpone it to Pike cycle | 14:48 |
| acabot | sballe_ : should we get rid of dependencies in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/watcher/+spec/cache-occupancy-strategy ? | 14:49 |
| sballe_ | yes | 14:49 |
| acabot | sballe_ : if yes I would suggest to rename it "noisy neighbour strategy" | 14:49 |
| acabot | to avoid confusion | 14:49 |
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| acabot | before removing dependancies | 14:49 |
| acabot | dependencies | 14:50 |
| sballe_ | I will do that and the noisy neighbor strategy is very much the Workload characteristic and QoS BP | 14:50 |
| sballe_ | We have decided to craete one useful strategy which is why we are doign it | 14:51 |
| sballe_ | this way | 14:51 |
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| sballe_ | but for now let's keep noisy neightbor and the otehr one | 14:51 |
| acabot | sballe_ : ok so what would be the diff between https://blueprints.launchpad.net/watcher/+spec/cache-occupancy-strategy and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/watcher/+spec/workload-characterization-qos then ? | 14:51 |
| sballe_ | for now let's keep both but as I work throught hw details they migth end up being the same | 14:52 |
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| acabot | sballe_ : ok :-D very easy for me to plan it for ocata in these conditions | 14:52 |
| sballe_ | sorry ;-( | 14:53 |
| acabot | sballe_ : I suppose you can at least remove the dependency with characterization grammar bp | 14:53 |
| sballe_ | yes | 14:53 |
| exploreshaifali | I would like to work on "characterization grammar" BP, if it is needed | 14:54 |
| sballe_ | and I will do that as soon as I rename the https://blueprints.launchpad.net/watcher/+spec/cache-occupancy-strategy BP | 14:54 |
| acabot | #action sballe_ review & rename BPs https://blueprints.launchpad.net/watcher/+spec/cache-occupancy-strategy & https://blueprints.launchpad.net/watcher/+spec/workload-characterization-qos and remove dependency with https://blueprints.launchpad.net/watcher/+spec/workload-characterization-grammar | 14:54 |
| sballe_ | exploreshaifali: you and hvprash_ are already workingon it :-) | 14:54 |
| exploreshaifali | yes, but not started writing code | 14:55 |
| acabot | exploreshaifali : you are more than welcome to add a PS or reviews to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/377100/ | 14:55 |
| exploreshaifali | okay. Thanks :) | 14:55 |
| acabot | #topic Open discussions | 14:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussions (Meeting topic: watcher)" | 14:55 | |
| acabot | I don't have any topic today | 14:56 |
| acabot | 4 minutes left | 14:56 |
| acabot | again we have to release tomorrow so please keep the focus on "in review BPs" | 14:56 |
| sballe_ | neither do I. Do we have a IRC meeting on 12/28? | 14:56 |
| sballe_ | acabot: will do | 14:57 |
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| acabot | good point, I will be off for the next 2 weeks but vincentfrancoise will be there | 14:57 |
| acabot | do you want to keep weekly meetings during xmas holidays ? | 14:57 |
| sballe_ | ok. I will be off the week between x-mas and new year | 14:58 |
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| acabot | I will ask vincent to handle it if needed | 14:58 |
| Yumeng | acabot: do you want to discuss https://blueprints.launchpad.net/watcher/+spec/cluster-energy-saving next week? or we can discuss on openstack-watcher ? | 14:58 |
| acabot | ok, vincent will open the meeting as usual and if there are not enough people it will be canceled | 14:58 |
| Yumeng | before we start spec | 14:58 |
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| acabot | #action vincentfrancoise open meetings during xmas holidays | 14:59 |
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| sballe_ | Yumeng: I am interseted int his topic as well. please ping me if I am around | 14:59 |
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| Yumeng | sballe_: no pb | 14:59 |
| acabot | Yumeng : sorry I missed it | 14:59 |
| acabot | I will add it to the agenda next week | 14:59 |
| Yumeng | acabot: no worries. thx :) | 15:00 |
| acabot | have a good day/night | 15:00 |
| acabot | bye | 15:00 |
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| Yumeng | bye | 15:00 |
| atuly | bye | 15:00 |
| exploreshaifali | bye! | 15:00 |
| acabot | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 14 15:00:33 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/watcher/2016/watcher.2016-12-14-14.02.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/watcher/2016/watcher.2016-12-14-14.02.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/watcher/2016/watcher.2016-12-14-14.02.log.html | 15:00 |
| serverascode | #startmeeting operators_telco_nfv | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 14 15:00:51 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is serverascode. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: operators_telco_nfv)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'operators_telco_nfv' | 15:00 |
| serverascode | #topic roll call / opening | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call / opening (Meeting topic: operators_telco_nfv)" | 15:01 | |
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| serverascode | hello! anyone here for the ops telecom nfv meeting? :) | 15:01 |
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| GeraldK | o/ | 15:01 |
| serverascode | hi GeraldK, it might just be you and I, we shall see | 15:02 |
| serverascode | I'll give it a minute or so | 15:02 |
| GeraldK | hi serverascode. let's see | 15:02 |
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| serverascode | I know Adrien said he would not be here today | 15:03 |
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| serverascode | ok I think it is just you and I | 15:04 |
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| GeraldK | okay. np. | 15:05 |
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| GeraldK | shall we still go through the agena? | 15:05 |
| * PerfectChaos waves | 15:05 | |
| serverascode | #topic Creating a project repository in openstack git | 15:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Creating a project repository in openstack git (Meeting topic: operators_telco_nfv)" | 15:05 | |
| serverascode | hi PerfectChaos :) | 15:06 |
| serverascode | ok, so for the first topic I was writing up some things about a "generic nfv platform" and realized what I was probably doing was writing a "spec" in openstack terms | 15:06 |
| serverascode | or a "blueprint", as I haven't really figured out the difference | 15:06 |
| serverascode | some working groups/teams have a repo in git | 15:06 |
| serverascode | let me find one... | 15:07 |
| GeraldK | yes. e.g. PWG | 15:07 |
| serverascode | #link https://git.openstack.org/cgit/?q=wg | 15:07 |
| serverascode | that will show a couple of working group repos | 15:07 |
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| serverascode | should we setup a repository for our projects? | 15:08 |
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| serverascode | even if it is just for the docs on the specs, ie. what we are actually doing | 15:08 |
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| GeraldK | as soon as we have something more stable, yes, why not. | 15:08 |
| serverascode | ok, I think so too, I'll at least start the process of creating one | 15:09 |
| GeraldK | easier to find than an etherpad page | 15:09 |
| PerfectChaos | It potentially helps us, and I don't think we lose out in any way for having one, so sure. | 15:09 |
| GeraldK | and we can have the reviews / comments on it. | 15:09 |
| serverascode | yeah I agree | 15:09 |
| * PerfectChaos nods | 15:10 | |
| serverascode | #action serverascode setup an openstack git repo for this group | 15:10 |
| PerfectChaos | There's a lot of infrastructure with gerrit and all that it gives us access to for reviewing spec type things | 15:10 |
| serverascode | cool, good to hear you are both in favor, as some people don't like the enforced structure of the openstack gerrit/git system :) | 15:10 |
| GeraldK | #me agrees | 15:10 |
| serverascode | (some people would be me, but I can see the value in doing it) | 15:11 |
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| serverascode | ok if I call it something like "otn-wg" ? as in operators telecom nfv working group? | 15:11 |
| GeraldK | see my last agenda item on a quick discussion "wg" vs "team" | 15:12 |
| serverascode | right ok we'll cover it then, great | 15:12 |
| serverascode | next topic? | 15:13 |
| serverascode | I should say moving to next agenda item | 15:13 |
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| GeraldK | okay | 15:13 |
| serverascode | #topic upgrades project proposal | 15:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "upgrades project proposal (Meeting topic: operators_telco_nfv)" | 15:13 | |
| serverascode | all yours GeraldK :) | 15:13 |
| GeraldK | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ops-telco-nfv-upgrades initial draft | 15:13 |
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| GeraldK | i have drafted some points around the upgrade topic | 15:14 |
| GeraldK | i noticed there had also been a session in BCN on the topic | 15:14 |
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| serverascode | great, yeah there is a lot of information left in the etherpads of previous summits and such | 15:14 |
| GeraldK | i will try to collect more info | 15:15 |
| GeraldK | one issue on our side is the problem with skipping releases which is what we do so far. see line 12 | 15:15 |
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| serverascode | right, that is interesting as I believe most openstack projects now expect not to jump versions | 15:16 |
| PerfectChaos | What's the proposal here, for this group? | 15:16 |
| GeraldK | i believe getting more feedback / input from Telcos would be great for this discussion | 15:16 |
| PerfectChaos | Is this just discussing these various upgrade-related points and information-gathering? | 15:16 |
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| GeraldK | I'd like to see pain points of others | 15:16 |
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| GeraldK | if several Telcos have similar pain points we can try to see how we can approach the openstack services to address it. | 15:17 |
| * PerfectChaos nods | 15:18 | |
| GeraldK | maybe, also other have found a good solution on that already | 15:18 |
| serverascode | so do you see it as a requirements gathering project at first? to talk to other telelcoms and find out what they would like to be able to do? | 15:18 |
| serverascode | or I should say what issues they are having with upgrades | 15:18 |
| GeraldK | yes, maybe that would be a necessary first step. | 15:19 |
| GeraldK | e.g. create a survey on this topic | 15:19 |
| serverascode | do you know if the previous telecom wg did a usecase on upgrades? | 15:19 |
| serverascode | or "user story" | 15:19 |
| serverascode | (I'm taking a look right now) | 15:20 |
| PerfectChaos | Yes, I was about to ask whether we should be conducting a survey for these information gathering sorts of projects | 15:20 |
| GeraldK | definitely, it had been discussed in a meeting as far as I remember | 15:20 |
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| serverascode | #link https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/openstack-user-stories/tree/user-stories/proposed | 15:21 |
| serverascode | not sure if that is actually all the user stories, b/c there is not many there | 15:21 |
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| serverascode | oh there is a rolling upgrades story | 15:21 |
| serverascode | #link https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/openstack-user-stories/tree/user-stories/proposed/rolling-upgrades.rst | 15:21 |
| serverascode | I'm slightly hesitant to work on user-stories, but if there is not a "jump version" story that might be interesting | 15:22 |
| serverascode | or other requirements you mention | 15:22 |
| GeraldK | that is the user stories from PWG | 15:23 |
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| GeraldK | #link https://review.openstack.org/gitweb?p=openstack/telcowg-usecases.git;a=tree;f=usecases;h=f4004434a7ca606ff6eca3d71e26a2b5a7b978e3;hb=HEAD TelcoWG use cases | 15:23 |
| serverascode | I think those got pushed into the pwg once the old telco wg closed | 15:24 |
| GeraldK | Rolling upgrades is part of the upgrading discussion, but just one part | 15:24 |
| serverascode | I agree regarding rolling upgrades being only one part | 15:24 |
| GeraldK | creating a user story in PWG could be a second step after the survey | 15:24 |
| serverascode | ok that sounds doable to me :) | 15:25 |
| serverascode | so are we agreeing that some kind of survey would be the next step? | 15:25 |
| GeraldK | +1 | 15:25 |
| PerfectChaos | Yup~ | 15:25 |
| GeraldK | someone having experiences how to do such surveys? | 15:26 |
| PerfectChaos | Since getting people to come in here and talk about their problems seems to be difficult. | 15:26 |
| serverascode | #agreed Some kind of telecom upgrade survey would be the next step | 15:26 |
| serverascode | I know that the openstack foundation does surveys | 15:26 |
| serverascode | I know that some people also get somewhat upset when random surveys are sent to the openstack lits | 15:26 |
| serverascode | *list | 15:26 |
| GeraldK | okay. once we have a set of questions ready, we can reach out to them how to best do it | 15:27 |
| PerfectChaos | I'll be honest, last time I attempted to conduct any sort of survey was well over a decade ago and I was still in school at the time. | 15:27 |
| PerfectChaos | Does feel like asking the foundation for advice would be a useful step if none of us happen to be super-confident in the art of surveying | 15:27 |
| GeraldK | alternatively, have a session at the Forum? | 15:27 |
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| serverascode | I agree that it would be best to check with the foundation first on surveys just to make sure everything is proper | 15:28 |
| serverascode | I can do that | 15:28 |
| PerfectChaos | That could work too, though also has going through the foundation as a necessary step, so we could discuss that possibility with then when we do that | 15:28 |
| serverascode | unless someone else wants to | 15:28 |
| GeraldK | thanks serverascode | 15:29 |
| PerfectChaos | *them | 15:29 |
| serverascode | #action serverascode check on surveys with foundation | 15:29 |
| serverascode | also, I agree a session at the next summit would be a great idea | 15:29 |
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| PerfectChaos | Thanks. | 15:30 |
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| serverascode | ok, so is our next step to write some questions for the survey? | 15:30 |
| GeraldK | maybe a slot in the OTN session is sufficient | 15:30 |
| GeraldK | serverascode: yes | 15:30 |
| serverascode | (just looking at irc bot commands) | 15:31 |
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| GeraldK | put an action on me. will not be able to work on before Jan | 15:31 |
| serverascode | ok | 15:31 |
| serverascode | #action GeraldK to begin developing survey questions | 15:31 |
| serverascode | #agreed Either a session or part of a session on telecom upgrades at next summit would be beneficial | 15:32 |
| serverascode | anything else on this topic today? | 15:32 |
| GeraldK | not from my side | 15:32 |
| PerfectChaos | On the coming up with questions front - put it on an etherpad so that I and others can potentially comment/help out? | 15:33 |
| GeraldK | hi DaSchab | 15:33 |
| GeraldK | PerfectChaos: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ops-telco-nfv-upgrades | 15:33 |
| serverascode | #topic project proposal "Generic OpenStack NFV Platform" | 15:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "project proposal "Generic OpenStack NFV Platform" (Meeting topic: operators_telco_nfv)" | 15:34 | |
| PerfectChaos | Ah, yes, putting it on that pad works | 15:34 |
| DaSchab | hi | 15:34 |
| serverascode | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/OTN-nfvi-project | 15:34 |
| serverascode | hi DaShab :) | 15:35 |
| serverascode | ok, I started writing up what I thought would be a good start on a "Generic OpenStack NFV Platform" | 15:35 |
| serverascode | but the first part was using the phrase "Generic OpenStack NFV Platform" | 15:35 |
| serverascode | I think NFV Platform makes sense as a term? I had previously kept using "VIM" or "NFVi" interchangibly | 15:35 |
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| serverascode | do people think that "Generic OpenStack NFV Platform" makes sense as a general term, and as a project? | 15:36 |
| DaSchab | it makes sense. it's more than just a VIM | 15:36 |
| GeraldK | +1 | 15:36 |
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| serverascode | I guess it's a lot like how OPNFV uses platform in their name | 15:37 |
| serverascode | ok, so after I realized I should use the word platform, I started to put together some parts of the platform | 15:37 |
| serverascode | which is when I realized I was writing more of a spec | 15:38 |
| serverascode | that I was listing out pieces of the platform, and requirements and such | 15:38 |
| GeraldK | i like the approach | 15:38 |
| serverascode | yeah and then I started a spreadsheet, but I wasn't sure that was the right format either | 15:39 |
| serverascode | My feeling is the next step is to put it into a doc in an openstack git repo and start detailing parts of the platform | 15:39 |
| GeraldK | how would this be different from the OPNFV Platform? | 15:39 |
| serverascode | GeraldK that is a good question, it would be similar, and in fact we would use some of the OPNFV components | 15:40 |
| GeraldK | if we want to run tests we would need to setup the platform not just write a spec. which resources would we use? | 15:40 |
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| serverascode | right, I was thinking the OSIC would be the first option for actual resources | 15:41 |
| GeraldK | my proposal: write a spec. see how much we align with OPNFV. propose a new scenario for OPNFV. propose test cases to OPNFV | 15:41 |
| serverascode | #link https://osic.org/ | 15:41 |
| serverascode | ok, that approach would work for me | 15:41 |
| GeraldK | OPNFV already has all the environment and test framework setup | 15:41 |
| serverascode | ok, part of this is I'm really hoping to bridge the openstack and opnfv communities | 15:42 |
| GeraldK | i guess they would be happy to have some resources to develop further test cases or extend the set of scenarios that they have | 15:42 |
| serverascode | ok, so does a first step of writing a very basic spec, and finding people in both the openstack and opnfv communities to comment on it make sense? | 15:43 |
| GeraldK | OPNFV also has a few VNF services they are using in their tests, like a simple vIMS | 15:43 |
| GeraldK | serverascode: +1 | 15:43 |
| serverascode | right, yeah can't test without VNFs :) which are actually hard to come by | 15:44 |
| serverascode | anyone else have any thoughts/comments/critiques? | 15:44 |
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| GeraldK | if we have some agreement in this direction I can reach out to some OPNFV folks to comment on it | 15:44 |
| serverascode | if no other comments I'll suggest we agree on the basic start of this project? | 15:45 |
| GeraldK | what I would like to see a bit better is what we want to achieve/produce/test | 15:45 |
| GeraldK | "functional tests" IMHO is a bit too generic | 15:45 |
| DaSchab | sorry that I joined your discussion at this late stage, but what is your intention to achieve with this paper and the alignment with OPNV | 15:45 |
| DaSchab | I missed the last weeks since the summit and now want to get onboard, sorry for nasty questions | 15:46 |
| serverascode | no worries :) | 15:46 |
| serverascode | my intention is to help openstack operators who are charged with running NFV environments | 15:46 |
| GeraldK | DaSchab: on the alignment with OPNFV, I would rather say utilize synergies, is that we should avoid doing the same work twice | 15:46 |
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| serverascode | in a way I'd like to bridge the opnfv and openstack communities work around an nfv platform | 15:47 |
| serverascode | and to start, create a very basic, generic nfv reference platform (which may already exist in opnfv's docs) | 15:47 |
| DaSchab | understand | 15:47 |
| GeraldK | DaSchab: the topic had been raised in the Summit that people would like to run performance tests and would need a reference platform for it | 15:48 |
| DaSchab | I know, I'm also interested inthis topic | 15:48 |
| serverascode | ok, I'm going to say we are agreed in this direction for now so we can move onto the next topic :) | 15:48 |
| GeraldK | serverascode: any actions or agrees ? | 15:49 |
| serverascode | #agreed We agree that an initial attempt at a "Generic OpenStack NFV Platform" by writing a spec and gathering comments on it | 15:49 |
| serverascode | hopefully that is an ok start, and we can make changes later | 15:49 |
| GeraldK | +1 | 15:49 |
| serverascode | #action serverascode create an inital doc in the repo | 15:50 |
| serverascode | #topic Next meeting | 15:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Next meeting (Meeting topic: operators_telco_nfv)" | 15:50 | |
| GeraldK | 10 min left | 15:50 |
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| serverascode | #info Last Dec meeting cancelled, next meeting not until 2nd week of January | 15:50 |
| serverascode | #info We meet on even weeks | 15:50 |
| serverascode | #topic "Working Group" vs "Team" | 15:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to ""Working Group" vs "Team" (Meeting topic: operators_telco_nfv)" | 15:51 | |
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| GeraldK | there had been a similar discussion in PWG whether they should rename to team as according OpenStack definition a wg is limited in time, whereas a team is an onoging effort | 15:51 |
| serverascode | GeraldK? | 15:51 |
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| GeraldK | I am not saying we should change name, but maybe having a discussion on it would be good before setting up the reop | 15:52 |
| serverascode | right, my impression is that we are a functional team as opposed to a working group | 15:52 |
| GeraldK | s/reop/repo/ | 15:52 |
| serverascode | by I'm confused by new groups being created taht don't seem like working groups | 15:52 |
| serverascode | like the arch-wg | 15:52 |
| serverascode | so I don't really know what to do myself | 15:52 |
| PerfectChaos | Is this just because that distinction isn't clearly documented somewhere obvious? | 15:52 |
| GeraldK | I don't have a strong position on it | 15:52 |
| serverascode | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Foundation/UserCommittee | 15:53 |
| serverascode | I think that is the list of working groups and such | 15:53 |
| GeraldK | PWG has decided -altough they are more like a team- not to change to team right now as the term PWG is widely known | 15:53 |
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| GeraldK | or we keep a neutral repo name like ops-telco | 15:54 |
| PerfectChaos | Heh, we don't appear to currently be either | 15:54 |
| serverascode | ah, ok, yes I agree on a neutron repo name | 15:54 |
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| serverascode | this is something to try to figure out there as it is confusing | 15:55 |
| serverascode | whether we are a working group or team, based on the user commitee definitions | 15:55 |
| serverascode | I can email the user commitee list | 15:55 |
| serverascode | and ask | 15:55 |
| PerfectChaos | I guess if we had to pick one and there is something somewhere documenting that WGs are time-limited whilst teams are on-going, I'd prefer team | 15:55 |
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| serverascode | I agree that we are a team as opposed to wg | 15:56 |
| DaSchab | +1 | 15:56 |
| serverascode | perhaps lets leave this til Jan so we have time for the last topic? | 15:56 |
| GeraldK | okay | 15:57 |
| serverascode | though we only have 3 minutes | 15:57 |
| GeraldK | i can be quick | 15:57 |
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| serverascode | #agree table wg vs team to jan | 15:57 |
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| serverascode | #topic telco related ux persona | 15:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "telco related ux persona (Meeting topic: operators_telco_nfv)" | 15:57 | |
| GeraldK | #link http://docs.openstack.org/contributor-guide/ux-ui-guidelines/ux-personas.html OpenStack UX personas | 15:57 |
| GeraldK | UX has defined personas that should be used for description of user stories, etc. | 15:58 |
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| GeraldK | there is not Telco, so I have started drafting one | 15:58 |
| serverascode | ah, interesting | 15:58 |
| GeraldK | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/osux-persona-nocengineer NOC engineer | 15:58 |
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| GeraldK | feedback welcome | 15:58 |
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| GeraldK | we may also need to draft a model company and other personas in the Telco | 15:59 |
| GeraldK | just drop your feedback in the Etherpad page | 15:59 |
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| serverascode | ok, cool, thanks GeraldK, that is something that is needed I think | 15:59 |
| serverascode | I'm going to have to end the meeting | 15:59 |
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| serverascode | thanks everyone for all your input! | 15:59 |
| DaSchab | do we need an application owner? | 16:00 |
| zhubingbing | ;) | 16:00 |
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| serverascode | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 14 16:00:11 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/operators_telco_nfv/2016/operators_telco_nfv.2016-12-14-15.00.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/operators_telco_nfv/2016/operators_telco_nfv.2016-12-14-15.00.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/operators_telco_nfv/2016/operators_telco_nfv.2016-12-14-15.00.log.html | 16:00 |
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| inc0 | #startmeeting kolla | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 14 16:00:26 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is inc0. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'kolla' | 16:00 |
| GeraldK | DaSchab: I think it could be useful | 16:00 |
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| inc0 | #topic rollcall - w00t...you know the rest | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall - w00t...you know the rest (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:00 | |
| wirehead_ | meow | 16:00 |
| sdake | o/ | 16:00 |
| duonghq | o/ | 16:00 |
| akwasnie | hi | 16:00 |
| inc0 | w00t everyone!;) | 16:00 |
| hieulq__ | o/ | 16:00 |
| v1k0d3n | o/ | 16:00 |
| coolsvap | o/ | 16:00 |
| mliima | \o/ | 16:01 |
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| sp__ | o/ | 16:01 |
| v1k0d3n | hello inc0 welcome back | 16:01 |
| berendt | o/ | 16:01 |
| inc0 | duh, you're hard crowd | 16:01 |
| zhubingbing | o、 | 16:01 |
| zhubingbing | 0/ | 16:01 |
| zhubingbing | o/ | 16:01 |
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| zhubingbing | o/ | 16:01 |
| Jeffrey4l | 0/ | 16:01 |
| jascott1 | o/ | 16:01 |
| mliima | õ/ | 16:01 |
| qwang | o/ | 16:01 |
| inc0 | v1k0d3n, just temporary, writing from sierra nevada;) | 16:01 |
| lrensing | o/ | 16:01 |
| sp__ | o/ | 16:01 |
| egonzalez90 | woot o/ | 16:01 |
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| srwilkers | woot o/ | 16:01 |
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| inc0 | #topic Announcements | 16:02 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:02 | |
| rhallisey | - /ᐠ｡ꞈ｡ᐟ\ | 16:02 |
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| inc0 | I don't have any since I was away, you guys have anything? | 16:02 |
| sdake | yes | 16:02 |
| Jeffrey4l | i have one. | 16:02 |
| inc0 | go ahead | 16:02 |
| sdake | http://www.openstack.org/ptg | 16:02 |
| sdake | PTG is Feb 20-24th iirc | 16:03 |
| v1k0d3n | inc0: not a bad place to take a meeting :) | 16:03 |
| sdake | check it out if you want to attend :) | 16:03 |
| inc0 | yes, we have first part of week | 16:03 |
| inc0 | still around 200 tickets left afair | 16:03 |
| inc0 | but they are running out, so if you're going make sure to at least get a ticket soon | 16:03 |
| sayantan_ | woot | 16:03 |
| berendt | i participate in the travel support program, not yet sure if i can attend | 16:04 |
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| Jeffrey4l | i will make m2 tag tomorrow. also will make next z stream tag for stable branch ( mitaka and newton ). | 16:04 |
| egonzalez90 | berendt: me too | 16:04 |
| inc0 | Jeffrey4l? whats on your mind? | 16:04 |
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| Jeffrey4l | but no idea how to handle liberty branch, since it will be EOL too. | 16:04 |
| inc0 | Jeffrey4l, I think tonyb handles that part | 16:05 |
| sdake | Jeffrey4l the liberty part is a agenda item I think :) | 16:05 |
| inc0 | it's not sdake | 16:05 |
| Jeffrey4l | sdake, hrm not added it. | 16:05 |
| Jeffrey4l | just for you information about the tag. | 16:05 |
| sdake | cool good work on the release liasing Jeffrey4l :) | 16:06 |
| inc0 | yeah, thank you for handling this:) | 16:06 |
| Jeffrey4l | for libert , i asked dellman, he has no idea no this and recommend me to throw a ML to talk. | 16:06 |
| inc0 | can we move on? | 16:06 |
| Jeffrey4l | yep. | 16:06 |
| inc0 | Jeffrey4l, when I'm back I can handle that | 16:07 |
| inc0 | if you'll have issues till then | 16:07 |
| inc0 | anyway, moving on | 16:07 |
| inc0 | #topic fixed uid/gid | 16:07 |
| inc0 | Jeffrey4l, you have the floor | 16:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "fixed uid/gid (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:07 | |
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| Jeffrey4l | Sam and i talked this recently. | 16:08 |
| Jeffrey4l | we have some different on this. | 16:08 |
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| Jeffrey4l | but he is not here today ;( | 16:08 |
| Jeffrey4l | #link https://review.openstack.org/405647 | 16:08 |
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| pbourke | o/ | 16:09 |
| kfox1111 | o/ | 16:09 |
| Jeffrey4l | the talk is about: does the uid/gid changable or not. how the id is picked up. picked by kolla? or based on rdo and cloud-archive. | 16:09 |
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| Jeffrey4l | i prefer to use static uid/gid and picked by kolla. | 16:09 |
| inc0 | if we would base it on repos, what if it differs in repo? | 16:09 |
| kfox1111 | that answer depends on if you want to support easy switching between ubuntu and rdo based containers. | 16:09 |
| inc0 | yeah agree Jeffrey4l | 16:10 |
| inc0 | kfox1111, or rather between binary versions of it | 16:10 |
| kfox1111 | if so, then the uid/gid's should be the same. | 16:10 |
| sdake | i prefer that approach Jeffrey4l | 16:10 |
| kfox1111 | inc0: yeah. | 16:10 |
| inc0 | gid/uid hardcodding only matters in source builds for us | 16:10 |
| Jeffrey4l | rdo has static uid. but rdo do not have all service. | 16:10 |
| kfox1111 | no, it matters for binary builds to. | 16:10 |
| inc0 | so ubuntu-source -> centos-source would just work | 16:10 |
| kfox1111 | last I looked rdo didnt have static uid? | 16:11 |
| Jeffrey4l | kfox1111, it is. at least in nova package. | 16:11 |
| Jeffrey4l | i am not sure wheter all packages have fix uid. | 16:11 |
| kfox1111 | I thought the uid in centos-binary 2.0.2 was different then 3.0.1? | 16:11 |
| kfox1111 | maybe I'm misremembering. | 16:11 |
| Jeffrey4l | kfox1111, in centos, the uid is the same expect rabbitmq. | 16:12 |
| Jeffrey4l | in ubuntu, totally no. | 16:12 |
| kfox1111 | ah. maybe I'm thinking rabbit then. | 16:12 |
| inc0 | maybe it's packager thing then | 16:12 |
| inc0 | well | 16:12 |
| Jeffrey4l | ok anyway. seems team like static uid + picked by kolla. | 16:12 |
| kfox1111 | either way. at very least, it would be nice if it never changed in the same dist. | 16:12 |
| Jeffrey4l | thanks. | 16:12 |
| Jeffrey4l | inc0, please move on. | 16:13 |
| sdake | the key thing there is upgrades need to work | 16:13 |
| inc0 | yeah let's keep doing what we're doing | 16:13 |
| inc0 | #topic replace heka with fluentd | 16:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "replace heka with fluentd (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:13 | |
| inc0 | zhubingbing, you're on | 16:13 |
| zhubingbing | hi | 16:13 |
| zhubingbing | flunted the current situation, | 16:14 |
| zhubingbing | i finish the most service has been synchronized to flunted i expected need 3 days to complete the first version; | 16:14 |
| zhubingbing | next tuesday | 16:15 |
| sdake | sweet | 16:15 |
| wirehead_ | So, you've got a heka lot of stuff done? :) | 16:15 |
| duonghq | nice | 16:15 |
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| zhubingbing | i can finish first version | 16:15 |
| egonzalez90 | cool | 16:15 |
| mliima | nice | 16:15 |
| zhubingbing | yes | 16:15 |
| srwilkers | wirehead_, :) | 16:15 |
| inc0 | cool, thanks zhubingbing | 16:16 |
| zhubingbing | some as with heka | 16:16 |
| inc0 | we don't need to run logstash right? | 16:16 |
| inc0 | (please tell me no logstash) | 16:16 |
| sdake | ya no logstash plz | 16:16 |
| zhubingbing | yes i think we need not log stash | 16:16 |
| sdake | sweet | 16:16 |
| wirehead_ | Log-beard or no-beard. | 16:16 |
| sdake | wirehead_ why - I shaved recently :) | 16:17 |
| jascott1 | Tree-beard? | 16:17 |
| inc0 | ok, can we move on? | 16:17 |
| zhubingbing | agree | 16:17 |
| inc0 | hate to cut this short (see what I did there?), but we have full agenda | 16:17 |
| inc0 | #topic Zero-downtime upgrade support in Kolla | 16:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Zero-downtime upgrade support in Kolla (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:17 | |
| inc0 | duonghq, you have floor | 16:18 |
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| duonghq | thank inc0 | 16:18 |
| * duonghq is landing on the floor | 16:18 | |
| duonghq | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/409598/ | 16:18 |
| duonghq | quick recap: I and hieulq__ are working on 1st phase of add support for zero-downtime upgrade from kolla side | 16:18 |
| duonghq | demo clip: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/409598/ | 16:18 |
| sdake | duonghq you mean kolla deliverlable? | 16:19 |
| duonghq | sdake, yup, | 16:19 |
| sdake | duonghq nice :) | 16:19 |
| inc0 | duonghq, we cant handle any less downtime than services work | 16:19 |
| duonghq | I and hieulq__ want to provide zero-downtime capability w/o native support from serviecs itself. | 16:19 |
| duonghq | inc0, the spec proposes 1 solution for this: buffering layer | 16:20 |
| inc0 | duonghq, that's silent downtime tho | 16:20 |
| inc0 | also is very prone to errors | 16:20 |
| duonghq | Just make users see it is only lag, not "down" | 16:21 |
| inc0 | speaking form my operator hat on | 16:21 |
| duonghq | inc0, I thought about this, and tested with Neutron (w/ my patch for rolling upgrade Neutron) | 16:21 |
| inc0 | I'd rather have explicit maintanence of cloud than implicit lag | 16:21 |
| duonghq | hmm | 16:22 |
| inc0 | I can see it working for most part, it's the edge cases that I'm afraid of | 16:22 |
| inc0 | also, if we have worst case scenerio - blocking database migration | 16:22 |
| inc0 | which is the case in certain services still | 16:22 |
| inc0 | upgrade downtime can take hours | 16:22 |
| inc0 | just to migrate database | 16:22 |
| inc0 | if it's sufficiently big | 16:23 |
| inc0 | and alters moves data around | 16:23 |
| inc0 | so having hour-long lag is no good. | 16:23 |
| duonghq | inc0, sure, in the case you just described, it also may let connection timeout. | 16:23 |
| berendt | which services are affected? | 16:23 |
| portdirect_away | o/ | 16:24 |
| duonghq | so we are working on provide some kind of canary for blue-green deployment | 16:24 |
| duonghq | which mitigate this issue | 16:24 |
| inc0 | berendt, can't tell you from top of my head, neutron had issues but I think it's already done | 16:24 |
| hieulq__ | inc0: yeah, that's why we think about the next step is blue-green or canary upgrade | 16:24 |
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| inc0 | well, that's beyond scope of kolla imho | 16:24 |
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| duonghq | inc0, I applied the neutron rolling upgrade procedure, but still downtime from HAProxy side, | 16:24 |
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| duonghq | HAProxy is part of Kolla | 16:25 |
| srwilkers | hey portdirect o/ | 16:25 |
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| duonghq | as Sam and egonzalez90 mentioned in their comments, there is some tweak of HAProxy to reduce this, | 16:25 |
| egonzalez90 | duonghq: because when upgrading the containers, connections are killed | 16:25 |
| egonzalez90 | yes, there is an admin socket | 16:25 |
| egonzalez90 | to which can put a node in maintenance mode waiting for end the connections | 16:26 |
| inc0 | but green-blue upgrade or canary is 2 different installations of openstack | 16:26 |
| duonghq | egonzalez90, the buffering layers keeps connection from be killed | 16:26 |
| sdake | blue/green and canary upgrades are a bit too much to swallow for kolla-ansible for ocata for me | 16:26 |
| kfox1111 | sdake: +1. its difficult and there isn't much time left. | 16:27 |
| sdake | t-1 month | 16:27 |
| duonghq | sdake, kfox1111 I do not expect anybody can make it land for ocata | 16:27 |
| duonghq | so it's our next step | 16:27 |
| sdake | ah - ok - then we have plenty of time to sort it out - dont need to answer all the q's in this meeting :) | 16:27 |
| kfox1111 | yeah. | 16:28 |
| inc0 | let's work on this spec guys, we can provide options/tools for ops to use | 16:28 |
| v1k0d3n | spec is a good place | 16:28 |
| inc0 | can we move on? | 16:28 |
| duonghq | I'm very appriciate if you guys can leave suggestion for me on my spec | 16:28 |
| egonzalez90 | duonghq: my concern is not on the API side that can be buffered, is on rabbit and db connection, when the upgrade finished and buffered connections go in the older version to the worker | 16:28 |
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| duonghq | egonzalez90, iirc, the current mechanism from service can handle plenty of this | 16:29 |
| duonghq | need recheck | 16:29 |
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| inc0 | ok, moving on | 16:29 |
| duonghq | egonzalez90, we are just on the 1st phase | 16:29 |
| inc0 | #topic Is the Nova Bug Dashboard (http://kolla.betacloud.io/bugs-dashboard.html) useful for us? | 16:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Is the Nova Bug Dashboard (http://kolla.betacloud.io/bugs-dashboard.html) useful for us? (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:29 | |
| duonghq | thank you guys | 16:29 |
| berendt | check the URL http://kolla.betacloud.io/bugs-dashboard.html. is this dashboard useful for us or not? the nova team uses it. if it is useful i will activate a cronjob that updates it every hour and send a short mail to openstack-dev. | 16:29 |
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| Jeffrey4l | i like it ;) | 16:30 |
| inc0 | me too | 16:30 |
| egonzalez90 | yup, cool | 16:30 |
| inc0 | this is cool;) | 16:30 |
| srwilkers | at first glance i like it | 16:30 |
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| srwilkers | yeah, this is pretty friendly | 16:30 |
| zhubingbing | cool | 16:31 |
| berendt | ok, i will prepare the cron job, will send a mail to openstack-dev and add a note to the docs | 16:31 |
| portdirect | yeah thats looks nice :) | 16:31 |
| Jeffrey4l | please add [kolla] tag berendt | 16:31 |
| inc0 | thanks berendt :) | 16:31 |
| inc0 | can we move on? | 16:31 |
| berendt | Jeffrey4l: yes | 16:31 |
| berendt | inc0: think so | 16:31 |
| Jeffrey4l | thanks. | 16:31 |
| duonghq | thank berendt | 16:31 |
| inc0 | I think I'm going to skip "pod" discussion as it was suggested in agenda;) | 16:32 |
| inc0 | so we move to k8s topics | 16:32 |
| inc0 | #topic kolla-kubernetes UX for service layers | 16:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "kolla-kubernetes UX for service layers (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:32 | |
| inc0 | portdirect you have next 3 | 16:32 |
| portdirect | o/ | 16:32 |
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| portdirect | so there has been a lot of discussion regarding the way we put kolla-k8s together | 16:33 |
| v1k0d3n | alanmeadows | 16:33 |
| portdirect | and so I think this is an area that we should look at, as it would let us get a target to aim for | 16:33 |
| sdake | portdirect for those watching at home can you define UX plz :) | 16:33 |
| alanmeadows | v1k0d3n: ;-) | 16:33 |
| portdirect | ah, ok | 16:34 |
| alanmeadows | im lurking | 16:34 |
| portdirect | UX - is user experience | 16:34 |
| sdake | right thanks portdirect :) | 16:34 |
| portdirect | which in our case means the way that a human operator will interact with what we produce | 16:34 |
| portdirect | so the tools they will use | 16:34 |
| kfox1111 | yeah. | 16:35 |
| kfox1111 | and how they are expected to interact with those tools. | 16:35 |
| portdirect | how they can change things to make the deplyment fit their needs | 16:35 |
| portdirect | and then keep their cloud running | 16:35 |
| * kfox1111 nods | 16:35 | |
| inc0 | arent helm tool which was meant to help with that? | 16:35 |
| portdirect | v1k0d3n, has wriiten a bp | 16:35 |
| inc0 | isn't* | 16:35 |
| srwilkers | inc0, yep | 16:36 |
| sdake | inc0 helm is being used of course | 16:36 |
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| kfox1111 | inc0: helms one tool. it will help yes. | 16:36 |
| portdirect | I think that using helm is a big part of that, but we need to decide how we are going to use it | 16:36 |
| kfox1111 | portdirect: link? | 16:36 |
| portdirect | so the bp here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/kolla-kubernetes/+spec/installation-docs-refactor | 16:36 |
| sdake | i think the way the microservices layer worked out worked well | 16:36 |
| sdake | sa in people submit differnet patchsets and we come to consensus on the patchsets via review | 16:36 |
| duonghq | firstly, I think we should make decission from which layer we should expose to user? | 16:36 |
| portdirect | I was thinking that we should start a doc that set out how we expect a person use kolla-k8s | 16:37 |
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| v1k0d3n | basically as portdirect is mentioning, since it was suggested not to write a spec for helm usage...perhaps the docs can define how helm is being used and to what extent. | 16:37 |
| sdake | portdirect sounds good | 16:37 |
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| kfox1111 | duonghq: no. al layers. its in the spec. | 16:37 |
| portdirect | duonghq: ans you question is a big part of that | 16:37 |
| duonghq | portdirect, you mean use case? | 16:37 |
| v1k0d3n | partially? as part of a post "something" process? as delivery, upgrades, etc? | 16:37 |
| portdirect | so how an operator will interact for vairius use cases | 16:38 |
| jascott1 | fyi I started upgrade bp here https://blueprints.launchpad.net/kolla-kubernetes/+spec/helm-deployment-upgrade | 16:38 |
| v1k0d3n | i didn't realize when helm was brought up...other use cases. the current spec leaves some interpretation on what is first class. | 16:38 |
| alanmeadows | the operator usage is really one aspect of the larger spec | 16:38 |
| srwilkers | the lack of clarity on this topic has led to some pretty heated/emotional debates, and i dont want to see it fracture the kolla community. as portdirect said, we need to set a target and expectations here for this before it becomes unmanageable | 16:38 |
| portdirect | v1k0d3n's questions abouve kinda match the headings i was thinking of | 16:38 |
| kfox1111 | agreed. | 16:39 |
| v1k0d3n | if i'm come from a helm mindset, what needed to consume these charts? | 16:39 |
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| kfox1111 | docs for sure are very lacking. | 16:39 |
| v1k0d3n | i think it's important to define that, in case they look different than what i'm used to seeing elsewhere. | 16:39 |
| kfox1111 | but so are a lot of the layers too. | 16:39 |
| portdirect | and once we have it defined what we expect our final goal to be, then i think it will be much easier for us to collectivlye get there :) | 16:39 |
| vhosakot | o/ sorry I'm late.. had a conflicting meeting | 16:39 |
| duonghq | v1k0d3n, I think we should done this top-down? the helm layer is the middle layer | 16:39 |
| duonghq | sup vhosakot | 16:39 |
| kfox1111 | so what is the focus? on getting something proof concepted at all layers, or docs? | 16:39 |
| vhosakot | duonghq: sup :) | 16:40 |
| sdake | poc at mid layer wuld be my pref kfox1111 | 16:40 |
| sdake | to drive consensus | 16:40 |
| alanmeadows | well I think more then just docs, I feel like the overarching design and goal of the helm introduction is lacking, and a lot of that discussion is happening in silos on IRC - where it really belongs in a spec thats agreed to and if something comes in that doesn't align with that, its an easy rejection | 16:40 |
| sdake | the service layer thta is | 16:40 |
| portdirect | so I think this topic/spec should stay away from technical discusstion as much as possible, as once we have the experince that we want our users to have, then we can define the technical route to implement that | 16:40 |
| srwilkers | docs are important. but i think its beyond just docs. we need to decide: are we wanting to confirm to our own view of how helm should be used, or do we want to align with how other communities (the helm community especially) expects them to be used | 16:40 |
| kfox1111 | sdake: yeah. thats what we've been doing so far. | 16:40 |
| duonghq | we are working on 2/3 sub-layer in one of middle layers | 16:40 |
| v1k0d3n | kfox1111: i think (at least in my mind) that knowing the kolla-kubernetes vision would be helpful to new users. | 16:40 |
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| v1k0d3n | i need to know if i can consume this as is....or what else needs to happen? | 16:41 |
| kfox1111 | v1k0d3n: +1. thats in the spec though? | 16:41 |
| v1k0d3n | if batteries are included...what batteries? AA, C, D? | 16:41 |
| v1k0d3n | perhaps D doesn't fit in my walkie talkie | 16:41 |
| sdake | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/kolla-kubernetes/+spec/helm-microservices | 16:41 |
| sdake | check out the dependency chart at bottom of that page | 16:41 |
| portdirect | cr1280 v1k0d3n | 16:41 |
| v1k0d3n | kfox1111: i think there was room for interpretation. this is what caused the discussions over the last couple of weeks. | 16:42 |
| v1k0d3n | that should be clear. | 16:42 |
| sdake | those were very fruitful | 16:42 |
| v1k0d3n | spec didn't do a great job. | 16:42 |
| sdake | we produced code that deploys microservices | 16:42 |
| sdake | that is why specs are evil v1k0d3n | 16:42 |
| kfox1111 | v1k0d3n: the vision is to allow the greatest numbers of users to be able to use kolla-kubernetes by allowing the user to make the tradeoff on the specctrum of easy to use vs full customizability | 16:42 |
| sdake | and why we dont use them typically in kolla :) | 16:42 |
| v1k0d3n | sorry, sdake i like specs | 16:42 |
| sdake | specs cause more chaos then code reviews in kolla community :) | 16:43 |
| kfox1111 | v1k0d3n: agreed, the spec doesn't have some terms defined that are open to misunderstanding. | 16:43 |
| sdake | we need PerfectChaos | 16:43 |
| portdirect | so beefore we go down the rabbit hole again, can we step away from the tech dicussion and look at what we want at the end of the day | 16:43 |
| portdirect | I'd be happy to colate such a process | 16:43 |
| kfox1111 | and we've arleayd changed temrinology a bit as we started into the design, realizing the terms used in the doc were old kolla-kuberntes terms and didn't quite apply as well in the helm world. :/ | 16:43 |
| kfox1111 | portdirect: +1 | 16:44 |
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| duonghq | portdirect, +1 | 16:44 |
| portdirect | kfox1111, v1k0d3n: (and any one else!) could we define what we want the end experienec that you have on day0, 1, and 2 of the finished kolla-k8s | 16:44 |
| duonghq | but changing spec terms atm is a good idea? | 16:44 |
| portdirect | (and I know it's never fnished) | 16:44 |
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| sdake | lets focus on day 0 imo ;) | 16:44 |
| kfox1111 | sdake: lets focus on day 2. | 16:45 |
| sdake | inc0 indicated goal of ocata was day 0 | 16:45 |
| kfox1111 | sdake: all the rest is easy compared to that. | 16:45 |
| portdirect | would the mailing list be the best place for this conversation? | 16:45 |
| kfox1111 | if we dont focus on day 2 we have an unusable system. :/ | 16:45 |
| sdake | ok then day 2 it is :) | 16:45 |
| portdirect | as i think it would alow us to compose out thoughts more clearly? | 16:45 |
| srwilkers | day 2 is important because it helps us understand what to expect at day 0. are we expecting an actual kubernetes deployment through this project, or just the helm packages required for one? | 16:45 |
| sdake | mailing list might work | 16:45 |
| inc0_ | yeah, I think we'll have plenty on our hands to even deploy by ocata | 16:45 |
| v1k0d3n | sdake: yes day 0 | 16:46 |
| srwilkers | thats where my confusion comes from | 16:46 |
| v1k0d3n | this is really important...not for all...but i think for most. | 16:46 |
| qwang | +1 for mailing list | 16:46 |
| kfox1111 | portdirect: it may be, yeah. | 16:46 |
| inc0_ | with caveat of "let's not burn day2 bridges" | 16:46 |
| alanmeadows | The mailing list seems like a widening of the same isolation, why not a spec? | 16:46 |
| sdake | inc0_ sounds good | 16:46 |
| kfox1111 | v1k0d3n: there are pleanty of day 0 solutions, and most don't work for a lot of operators. | 16:46 |
| portdirect | I could start a thread after the meeting, and we could each then describe what we want from kolla, and from that I can produce a doc up on gerrit for us to rip apart? | 16:46 |
| kfox1111 | because they never considerd day 2. | 16:46 |
| sdake | alanmeadows specs take weeks | 16:46 |
| sdake | alanmeadows we dont want to block | 16:47 |
| inc0_ | we don't have weeks if we want to deliver 1.0 for ocata | 16:47 |
| kfox1111 | portdirect: sounds good. we really need a requirements doc. this could be a start of that. | 16:47 |
| inc0_ | please let's deliver 1.0 - even without upgrades - for ocata | 16:47 |
| kfox1111 | inc0_: +1. | 16:47 |
| portdirect | +1 (personally to that inc0 ) | 16:47 |
| sdake | right | 16:47 |
| duonghq | inc0_, +1 | 16:47 |
| inc0_ | I'm ok with having bp or multiple bp for later on | 16:47 |
| alanmeadows | But why does the delivery requirement negate the spec entirely? | 16:47 |
| alanmeadows | The two can be done in parallel, granted some of the work may be in the opposite direction of the spec | 16:47 |
| kfox1111 | microservcies are something that can be delivered in that timeframe. the upper layers in the next release. | 16:48 |
| alanmeadows | but at least the path will be set and clear | 16:48 |
| portdirect | alanmeadows is spot on here | 16:48 |
| alanmeadows | This is a long road | 16:48 |
| v1k0d3n | i thought that kolla-kubernetes was approaching from greenfield... | 16:48 |
| v1k0d3n | but community has spoken. i can respect that. | 16:48 |
| kfox1111 | alanmeadows: +1 for parallel. | 16:48 |
| v1k0d3n | just throwing it out there that spec define a very clear path for operators and developers alike. | 16:48 |
| duonghq | kfox1111, I think we need service layer too | 16:48 |
| kfox1111 | v1k0d3n: theres an issue with total greenfield. kolla-kubernetes has compeditors. that has to be weighed. | 16:48 |
| alanmeadows | If you want to present this to Ocata, you need to explain some of the deficiencies, and you can't say, go back and read our mailing list for the complete vision | 16:48 |
| kfox1111 | duonghq: I agree, but not sure that can be done by ocata | 16:48 |
| alanmeadows | You need to be able to say, take a look at the refined spec | 16:49 |
| alanmeadows | to understand where we are going | 16:49 |
| lrensing | alanmeadows: +1 | 16:49 |
| srwilkers | kfox1111, im glad you mentioned competitors. heres whats likely to happen if we get hamstrung on not defining this soon and acting on it | 16:49 |
| sdake | the ocata presentation of this work is in NOVEMBER | 16:49 |
| v1k0d3n | alanmeadows: +1 | 16:49 |
| duonghq | kfox1111, anybody can define what is the end goal of service layer? | 16:49 |
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| portdirect | duonghq, this is why i raised this subject, the technical implementation of the service layer will acutally define a huge portion of the user expereince of kolla-k8s | 16:49 |
| inc0_ | alanmeadows, well, don't forget that we have PTG | 16:49 |
| inc0_ | where we can sort lots of things face to face | 16:49 |
| kfox1111 | duonghq: services layer is about easy deployment. | 16:49 |
| inc0_ | but agree, let's draft a spec and not block on it | 16:49 |
| duonghq | portdirect, can we narrow it? | 16:49 |
| inc0_ | just work on it | 16:49 |
| inc0_ | and use it to plan for Pike | 16:50 |
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| srwilkers | my worry is that if we dont figure this out and define a clear, meaningful path forward for the long term, that another project is going to swoop in and implement a standard approach for deploying openstack with helm outside of the kolla namespace | 16:50 |
| v1k0d3n | ok, so portdirect i think spec in parallel. is that what i hear everyone saying? | 16:50 |
| kfox1111 | microservices layer is about providing lego building blocks of which you can assemble manually any openstack config you want. | 16:50 |
| portdirect | yes i think so | 16:50 |
| inc0_ | I don't want to talk about other projects tbh | 16:50 |
| sdake | kfox1111 agree - and we need to automate that at some point | 16:50 |
| v1k0d3n | inc0_: +1 or competition. | 16:50 |
| srwilkers | there are a lot of people who are looking to kolla to solve this problem, and i really think it belongs here, whether its through kolla-kubernetes taking a standard approach that aligns with other communities doing the same, or whether its through a kolla-helm project focused on an opinionated way of deploying openstack on kubernetes through the standard helm approach | 16:51 |
| kfox1111 | sdake: +1. but on the other hand, if we get a system that is 2day managable before anyone else, I think operators will flock to that. | 16:51 |
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| kfox1111 | so we have to carefully balance the two. | 16:51 |
| duonghq | sdake, +1 but we need limit how much "automation" we'll deliver in O | 16:51 |
| inc0_ | yeah, but no matter how well defined specs we have, we'll fail the race if we won't deliver | 16:51 |
| sdake | kfox1111 we want everyone to work together not compete ;) | 16:51 |
| kfox1111 | sdake: +1 on coooperation. | 16:51 |
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| kfox1111 | thats anotherthin g the microsevices allow. | 16:51 |
| inc0_ | so yes, let's write spec, but keep us focused on "deploy by ocata" please | 16:51 |
| v1k0d3n | +1 inc0_ i think that is important to consider, and that is our approach | 16:51 |
| kfox1111 | sharing at the microservice level, and doing their own service thing. | 16:51 |
| v1k0d3n | been there many times before. | 16:51 |
| portdirect | these points are why i think we should move this discusstion to the mailing list, as they are all valid, but get llost in the noise of irc | 16:51 |
| kfox1111 | portdirect: +1 | 16:52 |
| sdake | portdirect agree - ml is winning for these types of discussions | 16:52 |
| alanmeadows | I get the competition concern, and what will set you apart from that is a clear spec with the design approach, how all day-2 facets would be tackled with said design, and articulating clearly what your helm approach is | 16:52 |
| duonghq | +1 portdirect | 16:52 |
| alanmeadows | lots of people have "stuff", few are providing that complete picture | 16:52 |
| v1k0d3n | +1 alanmeadows | 16:52 |
| kfox1111 | alanmeadows: +1. | 16:52 |
| srwilkers | alanmeadows, agreed | 16:52 |
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| duonghq | 8min left for this meeting :( | 16:52 |
| SamYaple | o/ | 16:52 |
| duonghq | hey SamYaple | 16:52 |
| portdirect | alanmeadows for king! | 16:52 |
| SamYaple | im new to this | 16:52 |
| portdirect | lol | 16:53 |
| v1k0d3n | so path? continue? | 16:53 |
| sdake | ok we got 7 ins left - what are the actions inc0_ ? | 16:53 |
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| inc0_ | lets start on ML thread | 16:53 |
| inc0_ | and see where that gets us | 16:53 |
| SamYaple | was there anything specific that was being asked of me that i missed? | 16:53 |
| srwilkers | SamYaple, just your firstborn | 16:54 |
| srwilkers | nbd | 16:54 |
| inc0_ | as far as discussions go - ML are more efficient than spec | 16:54 |
| portdirect | v1k0d3n, i think we will need to contunue, but I'm very hesistant about choosing the path of least technical resistance to our current codebase if it may hurt us in the long run | 16:54 |
| inc0_ | we can draft a spec from there | 16:54 |
| Jeffrey4l | uid/gid SamYaple. but seems we run out of time | 16:54 |
| sdake | if we draft a spec, no blocking plz | 16:54 |
| v1k0d3n | portdirect: +1 that | 16:54 |
| inc0_ | portdirect good thing about k8s is that once we deploy, we have abstraction layer | 16:54 |
| duonghq | sdake, +1 | 16:54 |
| sdake | there is always overflow into #openstack-kolla - we do that all the time :) | 16:54 |
| inc0_ | I'm fairly sure that we can migrate 1.0 -> 2.0 with virtually any changes to k8s codebase | 16:55 |
| kfox1111 | inc0_: k8s provides a nice abstraction layer, and then helm adds a non abstract layer in some ways. | 16:55 |
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| portdirect | lets take this to the ml | 16:55 |
| duonghq | sorry but can we move on: kolla-kubernetes helm/k8s versioning and compatibility with upstream - portdirect? | 16:55 |
| inc0_ | agree | 16:55 |
| v1k0d3n | 5 imins | 16:55 |
| alanmeadows | The goal of the spec wont be to block, although at some point, things need to start shifting to adhere to it. We need to divorce the proper design and approach from the time constraints that are so clearly visible in whats being created | 16:55 |
| inc0_ | moving on | 16:55 |
| portdirect | yes | 16:55 |
| kfox1111 | so getting the helm package api right is critical for that. | 16:55 |
| inc0_ | #topic kolla-k8s Documentation | 16:56 |
| sdake | agree lets move forward on upstream compatibility | 16:56 |
| kfox1111 | alanmeadows: +1 | 16:56 |
| sdake | that is blocking us atm | 16:56 |
| inc0_ | portdirect, last topic for you:) | 16:56 |
| v1k0d3n | +1 alanmeadows | 16:56 |
| portdirect | inc0_: i think we can skip that | 16:56 |
| inc0_ | we'll move remiaining topics for next week | 16:56 |
| v1k0d3n | this is big point | 16:56 |
| inc0_ | ok | 16:56 |
| portdirect | and move to helm/k8s versioning and compatibility with upstream | 16:56 |
| inc0_ | ok | 16:56 |
| inc0_ | #topic helm/k8s versioning and compatibility with upstream | 16:56 |
| portdirect | so 2 things in one, and we will run out of time :) | 16:56 |
| inc0_ | 3 minutes | 16:56 |
| inc0_ | so jsut start disussion and we'll continue next week | 16:57 |
| portdirect | what do we track helm or k8s? | 16:57 |
| kfox1111 | we're heavily invested in helm. | 16:57 |
| portdirect | docker inc docker, or distro docker? | 16:57 |
| duonghq | guess that we can have some recap on this topic | 16:57 |
| duonghq | ? | 16:57 |
| kfox1111 | and helm is very very green. | 16:57 |
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| kfox1111 | they fixed a critical upgrade bug 7 days ago. | 16:57 |
| openstack | bug 7 in Launchpad itself "Need help for novice translators" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/7 - Assigned to Данило Шеган (danilo) | 16:57 |
| kfox1111 | so we need to keep on top of helm. | 16:57 |
| portdirect | duonghq: its about the version of the software we use | 16:57 |
| srwilkers | kfox1111, i agree | 16:57 |
| portdirect | me too :) | 16:57 |
| portdirect | so we track the latest helm, and whatever is needs? | 16:58 |
| kfox1111 | so I vote for tracking helm over trackign k8s for now. | 16:58 |
| sdake | portdirect wfm | 16:58 |
| srwilkers | i agree | 16:58 |
| alanmeadows | its moving quickly, suggest life starts at 2.1.0 (supports 1.5) + 1.5 otherwise a lot of pet refactoring | 16:58 |
| v1k0d3n | kfox1111: getting involved in their community would help | 16:58 |
| v1k0d3n | meetings are thursdays | 16:58 |
| portdirect | alanmeadows: I'm currently working on that transistion | 16:58 |
| kfox1111 | v1k0d3n: +1. | 16:58 |
| alanmeadows | portdirect: yay. | 16:58 |
| kfox1111 | v1k0d3n: I'll try to attend if I have the time. | 16:59 |
| v1k0d3n | going to discuss openstack at next meeting btw. | 16:59 |
| v1k0d3n | sure. up to your schedule. | 16:59 |
| berendt | 1 min left.. | 16:59 |
| srwilkers | kfox1111, v1k0d3n ill be there | 16:59 |
| v1k0d3n | been working directly with those guys. | 16:59 |
| kfox1111 | yeah. my schedule is not up to me. :( | 16:59 |
| inc0_ | yeah, lets overflow to next week | 16:59 |
| v1k0d3n | awesome srwilkers see you there! | 16:59 |
| portdirect | i have reached out to them and am trying to find out if they are up for having a kolla specific meating | 16:59 |
| sdake | inc0_ sounds like a plan :) | 16:59 |
| v1k0d3n | kfox1111: +1 same here. i have to force a lot of things | 16:59 |
| inc0_ | thank you all! | 16:59 |
| inc0_ | #endmeeting kolla | 16:59 |
| portdirect | thanks! | 16:59 |
| srwilkers | v1k0d3n, understatement | 16:59 |
| hieulq__ | Thank you | 16:59 |
| duonghq | bye | 16:59 |
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| v1k0d3n | portdirect_zzzzz: "opentack" meeting :) | 16:59 |
| v1k0d3n | kolla narrow | 17:00 |
| v1k0d3n | later | 17:00 |
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| mliima | bye | 17:00 |
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| berendt | endmeeting not working? | 17:00 |
| inc0_ | I got dc:( | 17:00 |
| inc0_ | hold on | 17:00 |
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| inc0 | #endmeeting kolla | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 14 17:01:05 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2016/kolla.2016-12-14-16.00.html | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2016/kolla.2016-12-14-16.00.txt | 17:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2016/kolla.2016-12-14-16.00.log.html | 17:01 |
| berendt | looks better :) | 17:01 |
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