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| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Infra running with lower capacity now, due to a temporary problem affecting one of our nodepool providers. Please expect some delays in your jobs. Apologies for any inconvenience caused. | 12:40 | |
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| jasondotstar | #startmeeting vahana | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Feb 3 15:00:00 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jasondotstar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vahana)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'vahana' | 15:00 |
| jasondotstar | #topic roll call | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: vahana)" | 15:00 | |
| jasondotstar | o/ | 15:00 |
| Ng | .o/ | 15:00 |
| jasondotstar | howdy | 15:00 |
| jasondotstar | piet: FYI...if you're interested | 15:00 |
| jasondotstar | piet: the vahana meeting is happening | 15:01 |
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| jasondotstar | #topic Introduction | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Introduction (Meeting topic: vahana)" | 15:01 | |
| jasondotstar | This meeting is for the OpenStack Vahana project | 15:01 |
| jasondotstar | We're building an iOS-based client for OpenStack, in the form of one or more frameworks for interacting with the OS API, and *possibly* front end app | 15:01 |
| jasondotstar | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-mobile-ios-brainstorm | 15:01 |
| jasondotstar | Interested parties are encouraged to join the #openstack-vahana IRC channel | 15:01 |
| jasondotstar | #topic Action Items from Last Meeting | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action Items from Last Meeting (Meeting topic: vahana)" | 15:02 | |
| jasondotstar | so i held a solo meeting last week | 15:02 |
| Ng | :) | 15:02 |
| jasondotstar | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vahana/2016/vahana.2016-01-27-15.00.html | 15:02 |
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| jasondotstar | just went through the motion just to collect a few thoughts in the public I guess | 15:03 |
| jasondotstar | so here goes: | 15:03 |
| jasondotstar | jasondotstar to continue reporting on the local dev documentation | 15:03 |
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| jasondotstar | status on this is I've got something worked up. | 15:03 |
| jasondotstar | I'm working on generating the documentation from the openstack templates | 15:04 |
| Ng | Nice | 15:04 |
| jasondotstar | but I'll post what I've got on etherpad later today (few other things on my plate rt nw) | 15:04 |
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| jasondotstar | it's basically install Xcode. Create a project and incorporate AlamoFire. Create a playground. Profit. | 15:05 |
| jasondotstar | trying to make it 'sexy' as possible | 15:05 |
| jasondotstar | hehehe | 15:05 |
| Ng | ;) | 15:06 |
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| jasondotstar | #action jasondotstar to publish local dev environment documentation for reviewing | 15:06 |
| jasondotstar | ok that's really it from last week | 15:06 |
| jasondotstar | #topic Todays Agenda | 15:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Todays Agenda (Meeting topic: vahana)" | 15:07 | |
| jasondotstar | since last week, I've been working closely with the openstackux PTL, piet, on conducting interviews with OpenStack operators | 15:07 |
| jasondotstar | we could really use more interviewees | 15:07 |
| jasondotstar | Ng: do you know a group of Ops guys at HP that we can poke? | 15:08 |
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| jasondotstar | #link https://doodle.com/poll/3ehgtqh4kqrtx24y | 15:08 |
| jasondotstar | this is the link to where interested parties can sign up to be interviewed | 15:08 |
| Ng | jasondotstar: I did, but now that public cloud is shut down, I'm honestly not sure what they're doing | 15:09 |
| jasondotstar | the process is very relaxed | 15:09 |
| jasondotstar | Ng: ack | 15:09 |
| jasondotstar | #action find a few more interviewees to participate in the mobile app use case interviews | 15:09 |
| jasondotstar | so we did have a couple guys that we interviewed on Monday over Google Hangouts | 15:10 |
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| jasondotstar | one was an Ops guy from Intel | 15:10 |
| purp | Ng jasondotstar: reach out to Ulf Baumann. He can get you connected to HP Ops folks. | 15:10 |
| jasondotstar | and the other was from Best Buy | 15:10 |
| purp | Oh, and hi. o/ | 15:10 |
| jasondotstar | purp: ohai! | 15:10 |
| jasondotstar | purp++ | 15:10 |
| jasondotstar | thanks | 15:10 |
| jasondotstar | I'll do that | 15:10 |
| Ng | Hey purp :) | 15:10 |
| purp | Howdy howdy. | 15:11 |
| jasondotstar | #action jasondotstar to reach out to Ulf Baumann to get connected up with the HP Ops folks | 15:11 |
| Ng | jasondotstar: any useful initial feedback from those interviews? | 15:11 |
| jasondotstar | yes | 15:11 |
| jasondotstar | in fact, let's take a look | 15:11 |
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| jasondotstar | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-openstackux-mitaka-mobile-interviews | 15:12 |
| jasondotstar | so piet and i put together a few goals, you can read through those. | 15:12 |
| jasondotstar | two things right off.... | 15:12 |
| jasondotstar | first, both interviewees used Android phones :-/ | 15:13 |
| Ng | Hah | 15:13 |
| jasondotstar | secondly, they both felt strongly that alerting and monitoring are the strongest use case for developing something for mobile. | 15:13 |
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| jasondotstar | one VERY interesting comment | 15:13 |
| jasondotstar | was regarding visual programming | 15:14 |
| jasondotstar | im paraphrasing here but | 15:14 |
| jasondotstar | he basically stated that having a visual programming interface could allow mobile devices to better PRODUCE content | 15:14 |
| jasondotstar | as opposed to CONSUMING it. | 15:15 |
| jasondotstar | one felt like his mobile device was purely for consumption | 15:15 |
| Ng | for programming what? | 15:15 |
| jasondotstar | programming was a term he used loosely. | 15:15 |
| jasondotstar | programming in my mind, means taking actions from your phone with OpenStack | 15:15 |
| Ng | ok | 15:16 |
| jasondotstar | launching instances | 15:16 |
| jasondotstar | adding storage | 15:16 |
| jasondotstar | configuring networking | 15:16 |
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| jasondotstar | they talked about they return to their workstations (laptop, multi-monitor desktops, etc.) | 15:16 |
| jasondotstar | to take action (look at horizon, console in, etc.) | 15:16 |
| jasondotstar | he mentioned game programming engines | 15:17 |
| jasondotstar | that have visual representations for ACTIONS | 15:17 |
| jasondotstar | so having something like that might allow a phone or tablet to perform more actions | 15:17 |
| jasondotstar | instead of just looking at mobile-ready monitoring dashboards | 15:17 |
| jasondotstar | and receiving alerts | 15:17 |
| jasondotstar | s/about they/about how they/ | 15:18 |
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| Ng | so this maybe ties into something that purp suggested last week, which is that we may need a server component to this | 15:18 |
| jasondotstar | +1 | 15:18 |
| Ng | if we're going to be diving around all over the shape of a cloud, that's a heck of a lot of data for a phone to be round-tripping | 15:18 |
| jasondotstar | i can almost see tying an alert to an action | 15:18 |
| jasondotstar | Ng: +1 | 15:19 |
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| jasondotstar | i thought it was an interesting point that the interviewee brought up on his own | 15:19 |
| purp | Very +1. We found it useful to make a set of aggregation and simplification APIs when we launched the original LinkedIn mobile app. | 15:20 |
| purp | Also allows you to set up some web views (that aren't Horizon) if you care to. | 15:20 |
| jasondotstar | indeed. | 15:20 |
| Ng | jasondotstar: it is a very interesting idea | 15:21 |
| jasondotstar | I thought so too :-) | 15:21 |
| purp | (web views are very fast to iterate, then client lib can access underlying controller) | 15:21 |
| * purp ducks back out for a meeting. Yay, meetings! | 15:21 | |
| jasondotstar | i was impressed. I happen to know about Kismet (the visual programming tool in Unreal Engine) | 15:21 |
| jasondotstar | purp: thx 4 your input | 15:21 |
| Ng | purp: thanks for coming :) | 15:21 |
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| jasondotstar | he brought that up as an example which is spot on. | 15:22 |
| Ng | I do feel like we're now moving slightly further away from having a good idea of what this project is about/for ;) | 15:22 |
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| Ng | but that is fine at this stage | 15:22 |
| jasondotstar | still... most of the convo with both of them centered around alerting/monitoring | 15:22 |
| jasondotstar | Ng: +1 | 15:22 |
| jasondotstar | we talked specifically about how they receive notifications | 15:23 |
| jasondotstar | most are using email and SMS | 15:23 |
| jasondotstar | or a combination | 15:23 |
| jasondotstar | a BIG problem that surfaced | 15:23 |
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| jasondotstar | was the problem of finding the right SME to respond | 15:23 |
| jasondotstar | Ops are in charge of it all. They're on call | 15:24 |
| jasondotstar | and an alert pops up. sometimes it's obvious what to do. | 15:24 |
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| jasondotstar | other times, a better skilled SME and/or a stakeholder needs to be notified of the issue | 15:24 |
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| jasondotstar | they talked about how long it takes sometimes to find the right person to 'wake up' | 15:25 |
| jasondotstar | so having a mobile solution that perhaps knows who the SMEs and/or stakeholders are would be valuable. | 15:26 |
| Ng | hmm | 15:26 |
| jasondotstar | that's not necessarily an OpenStack problem to solve | 15:26 |
| jasondotstar | but, it could be interesting to add some metadata to the monitoring efforts | 15:26 |
| jasondotstar | that include a 'persons to alert' field. | 15:26 |
| Ng | yeah I think that's out of scope for us, and probably the wider project - monitoring/alerting is like deployment/orchestration, it's too religious and/or site-specific to make official ;) | 15:27 |
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| jasondotstar | the idea of watch alerting was positive | 15:27 |
| jasondotstar | but the two we interviewed saw no issue with pulling out a phone in a meeting or at lunch to react to an alert received | 15:27 |
| Ng | but an app that's surfacing state and offering actions, could have customisable actions that do something like "look up this device/service/object in my runbook/cmdb/etc" that lets people find the information they need from their external resources | 15:28 |
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| jasondotstar | +1 | 15:28 |
| jasondotstar | on that note, it was also mentioned that it 'Would like to be able to monitor the status of an alert' in a custom temporary dashboard via mobile | 15:29 |
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| jasondotstar | s/Would like/Would be nice/ | 15:29 |
| jasondotstar | i.e | 15:29 |
| jasondotstar | utilization is high | 15:30 |
| jasondotstar | you can quickly get a custom UI that pops up on your phone | 15:30 |
| jasondotstar | that monitors that ONE item temporarily until the issue is gone. | 15:30 |
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| jasondotstar | i thought that one was interesting as well. | 15:31 |
| Ng | yeah it is. This stuff all needs to live outside of openstack components though, in that if the issue is with Horizon, and your "show me an alert/issue" stuff is happening in Horizon, you're in trouble :) | 15:32 |
| jasondotstar | piet and I began to think if there were ways to interface with some of the monitoring efforts already in play (ceilometer, monasca, etc) | 15:32 |
| jasondotstar | Ng: lol | 15:32 |
| jasondotstar | Ng: you're in trouble if your alert system is down | 15:32 |
| jasondotstar | Ng: +100 | 15:32 |
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| jasondotstar | we could already see a slight pattern | 15:33 |
| jasondotstar | between the two guys we interviewed | 15:34 |
| Ng | I also think we're blurring the boundaries a little between operators and tenants. Tenants will mostly be talking to openstack APIs, operators have a lot of concerns that are outside of openstack and I'm not sure how we can help involve those things. That doesn't mean it can't be done, it's probably just a matter of plugins that speak to different APIs | 15:34 |
| jasondotstar | agreed. baremetal hosts or hypervisors going down | 15:34 |
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| jasondotstar | Ops care about that moreso than tenants | 15:35 |
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| jasondotstar | well they care too | 15:35 |
| jasondotstar | but the actions taken to resolve it is often coming from the operators | 15:35 |
| Ng | yeah | 15:35 |
| jasondotstar | i think that it's apparent that whatever we end up with for this project, it appears to be centered around alerting and notification | 15:36 |
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| jasondotstar | and ***maybe*** mapping actions to alerts in a succinct way | 15:37 |
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| piet | We're currently running interviews with Ops folks to understand their use cases | 15:37 |
| piet | I'm really excited with the ideas being thrown at us. | 15:37 |
| jasondotstar | piet: ohai! | 15:37 |
| piet | Yep | 15:37 |
| piet | Like Android? ;^) | 15:37 |
| jasondotstar | hehehehe | 15:37 |
| piet | Nb Do you know any tenants? | 15:37 |
| piet | Sorry Ng | 15:37 |
| jasondotstar | i started off with that | 15:37 |
| jasondotstar | :-) | 15:37 |
| Ng | for operator use cases at least, I'd like to hear what some tenants think, but it does seem like there would be interest in having some kind of stateful openstack proxy client, that mobile interfaces can consume | 15:38 |
| piet | I think the take-away is we need more heads to interview | 15:38 |
| piet | Feel free to recruit people via https://doodle.com/poll/3ehgtqh4kqrtx24y | 15:38 |
| jasondotstar | yes | 15:38 |
| jasondotstar | we need more. i think that the during the Operators Summit we can get a lot of them done in one fell swoop | 15:39 |
| jasondotstar | but, the more we can do online, the better. | 15:39 |
| piet | Ng Can you describe specifically who the tenants are? Are these the folks that have a tenant/project within OpenStack? Likely worried about adding people and quotas? | 15:39 |
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| Ng | piet: yeah so the people who are consuming an openstack installation purely via its APIs. They talk to nova and launch instances of their applications, cinder/swift to attach their storage to instances, or store things, etc, etc. | 15:40 |
| jasondotstar | IMHO, it's customers consuming openstack | 15:40 |
| Ng | they never get to see behind the curtain of what is powering their cloud, they just consume it | 15:40 |
| jasondotstar | piet: what he said :-) | 15:40 |
| jasondotstar | perhaps there is a way to spin this | 15:41 |
| Ng | I think I had originally envisioned that we'd be of more use to tenants, but that may not be the case at all | 15:41 |
| jasondotstar | as an app for tenants? | 15:41 |
| jasondotstar | Ng: damn, we're on the same wavelength | 15:41 |
| jasondotstar | :-) | 15:41 |
| Ng | :) | 15:41 |
| jasondotstar | that could be interesting | 15:41 |
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| jasondotstar | especially in the spirit of DevOps | 15:41 |
| jasondotstar | having an app where tenants can *somewhat* share the responsibility of their compute resources | 15:42 |
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| jasondotstar | Operators have multiple ways to be nagged by monitoring systems and failed health checks | 15:43 |
| jasondotstar | in addition to providing a metering dashboard to tenants, maybe there's a way to provide alerting directly to the tenants | 15:43 |
| jasondotstar | thinking aloud here... | 15:43 |
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| piet | Ng We kind of make a distinction between end users, tenant admins and DevOps. | 15:45 |
| Ng | interesting | 15:45 |
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| jasondotstar | piet: true. but in true DevOps fashion, it's about having Devs (end-users consuming openstack) and Ops (admins who maintain the stability of openstack) work together | 15:46 |
| jasondotstar | the whole 'Make Devs carry pagers' paradigm | 15:47 |
| piet | Ng End Users and DevOps are slightly different skillsets. Also, DevOps seems to be a bit of a unicorn | 15:47 |
| jasondotstar | it is | 15:47 |
| jasondotstar | there's difference in perception across the board | 15:48 |
| jasondotstar | still, perhaps theres some merit around offering tenants metering, alerting, and notifications from their resources directly via mobile | 15:49 |
| piet | Also, Domain Admins typically manage the relationship w the cloud provider and are typically concerned with budget | 15:49 |
| jasondotstar | +1 | 15:49 |
| jasondotstar | perhaps we've got more questions to add :-) | 15:50 |
| jasondotstar | or another demographic to interview... tenants. | 15:50 |
| jasondotstar | GOOD dialogue here, this is awesome. | 15:51 |
| jasondotstar | let's move to the final 10 mins of the meeting | 15:51 |
| jasondotstar | #topic Open Discussion | 15:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: vahana)" | 15:51 | |
| jasondotstar | we can continue or if there's anything else we need to bring up please... floor is yours | 15:52 |
| piet | I need to sneak out early to get ready to interview someone for another project | 15:52 |
| Ng | I have nothing but questions now :) | 15:52 |
| jasondotstar | piet: hey thx! i'll work on getting a few more ppl b4 ops summit | 15:53 |
| piet | K - we need to hammer on Fifield to get a space | 15:53 |
| jasondotstar | piet: we DO | 15:53 |
| piet | Sent him and email, but he likes to ignore | 15:54 |
| jasondotstar | follow up today | 15:54 |
| jasondotstar | I will | 15:54 |
| jasondotstar | sorry i sound like yoda | 15:54 |
| Ng | haha | 15:54 |
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| jasondotstar | #action jasondotstar to follow up with fifield on getting some space at the ops summit | 15:55 |
| jasondotstar | cool. I'll give you guys five mins back if nothing else | 15:55 |
| Ng | :) | 15:55 |
| jasondotstar | thanks piet, Ng, purp | 15:55 |
| Ng | thanks all :) | 15:55 |
| piet | Cheers | 15:55 |
| jasondotstar | #endmeeting | 15:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:55 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Feb 3 15:55:41 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:55 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vahana/2016/vahana.2016-02-03-15.00.html | 15:55 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vahana/2016/vahana.2016-02-03-15.00.txt | 15:55 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vahana/2016/vahana.2016-02-03-15.00.log.html | 15:55 |
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| piet | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Personas_2015 | 15:55 |
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| rhallisey | #startmeeting kolla | 16:30 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Feb 3 16:30:22 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is rhallisey. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:30 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:30 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'kolla' | 16:30 |
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| rhallisey | #topic rollcall | 16:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:30 | |
| SamYaple | o/ | 16:30 |
| rhallisey | hello | 16:30 |
| akwasnie | o/ | 16:30 |
| elemoine | o/ | 16:30 |
| SamYaple | unicell: ping | 16:30 |
| dratushnyy | o/ | 16:30 |
| Jeffrey4l | \o/ | 16:30 |
| pbourke_ | hi | 16:30 |
| nihilifer | o/ | 16:30 |
| mdnadeem1 | o/ | 16:30 |
| rhallisey | so sdake will be back in ~15 min | 16:31 |
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| rhallisey | but will continue without him for now | 16:31 |
| jpeeler | hi | 16:31 |
| rhallisey | hey Jeff | 16:31 |
| Guest44587 | hi | 16:32 |
| SamYaple | jpeeler: o/ | 16:32 |
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| rhallisey | inc0, around? | 16:32 |
| Jeffrey4l | hi every one | 16:32 |
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| sdake | o/ | 16:32 |
| sdake | i am back now | 16:32 |
| sdake | but go ahead and run the agenda rhallisey | 16:32 |
| rhallisey | kk | 16:32 |
| sdake | been going since 3am and i'm beat | 16:32 |
| rhallisey | #topic Announcements | 16:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:33 | |
| rhallisey | So midcycle is right around the corner | 16:33 |
| rhallisey | just want to remind everyone it's Feb 9th and 10th | 16:33 |
| inc0 | o/ | 16:33 |
| inc0 | sorry I'm late | 16:33 |
| rhallisey | inc0, no worries | 16:33 |
| rhallisey | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kolla-mitaka-midcycle | 16:33 |
| ajafo | o/ | 16:33 |
| rhallisey | just a reminder as to what is likely to be covered | 16:34 |
| rhallisey | sdake, did you finalize the schedule? | 16:34 |
| sdake | rhallisey no i did not | 16:34 |
| sdake | but I will do so today | 16:34 |
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| rhallisey | kk | 16:34 |
| sdake | its part of my work day | 16:35 |
| sdake | please register if you haven't | 16:35 |
| rhallisey | ^ yes that too | 16:35 |
| rhallisey | #topic Kolla-ansible config playbooks | 16:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Kolla-ansible config playbooks (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:35 | |
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| rhallisey | SamYaple, go ahead | 16:35 |
| SamYaple | will do. thanks rhallisey | 16:35 |
| rhallisey | I'm excited for this topic | 16:35 |
| SamYaple | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/271126/ | 16:35 |
| rhallisey | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/271126/ | 16:36 |
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| rhallisey | you might not have perms :) | 16:36 |
| SamYaple | ok | 16:36 |
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| SamYaple | that patchset is a bit discussing the issue | 16:36 |
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| SamYaple | basically what do we do when a config file _changes_? | 16:36 |
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| SamYaple | we need to restart services to pull in that change | 16:36 |
| SamYaple | the purposed patch does it in line, I dont particularly agree with that approach because then you get service restarts out of the blue | 16:37 |
| sdake | SamYaple agree | 16:37 |
| inc0 | or call sighup on certain | 16:37 |
| SamYaple | inc0: yes on a few we can | 16:37 |
| sdake | inc0 the filelsystem is readonly | 16:37 |
| SamYaple | but its still a service shutdown (just a much quicker one) | 16:37 |
| sdake | once the config is in the container needs to be restarted | 16:37 |
| inc0 | we would need to copy new conf file tho | 16:37 |
| SamYaple | sdake: no, thats for COPY_ONCE only | 16:38 |
| sdake | SamYaple yes i know | 16:38 |
| sdake | which needs to work :) | 16:38 |
| inc0 | default is COPY_ALWAYS afair | 16:38 |
| SamYaple | no its COPY_ONCE | 16:38 |
| sdake | definately coyp once | 16:38 |
| inc0 | ok | 16:38 |
| inc0 | my mistake then | 16:38 |
| sdake | we made that decision long ago | 16:38 |
| SamYaple | but with the changes to allow sighup the community at large is moving to changing configs so well revisit that later | 16:38 |
| SamYaple | thats not the point of this | 16:38 |
| SamYaple | back on topic | 16:39 |
| sdake | that was part of the whole blueprint spec thing for ansible - that was required to get people to approve the spec | 16:39 |
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| SamYaple | the config playbook would be similiar to what we do with upgrades | 16:39 |
| SamYaple | if new config changes are detected it would do a rolling restart to pull in those changes | 16:39 |
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| inc0 | action - reconfigure? | 16:39 |
| SamYaple | sure | 16:39 |
| SamYaple | thats a reasonable name | 16:39 |
| inc0 | yeah, I'm cool with that | 16:39 |
| SamYaple | so well reuse alot of (not yet written) upgrade code I think | 16:40 |
| SamYaple | to maintain uptime and availability | 16:40 |
| inc0 | althouth I'd say we need to find out if config changes and restart only services we need | 16:40 |
| SamYaple | which should be easy inc0 | 16:40 |
| SamYaple | a quick md5sum compare | 16:40 |
| inc0 | so if task template == changed then restart corresponding | 16:40 |
| SamYaple | we do this in the haproxy container | 16:40 |
| SamYaple | no that wont work | 16:40 |
| SamYaple | because deploy changes teh files as they are laid down | 16:40 |
| SamYaple | reconfigure would need a direct compare | 16:41 |
| inc0 | ok, makes sense | 16:41 |
| SamYaple | so i think we are all on the same page here, just making everyone aware of the issue | 16:41 |
| inc0 | still, we need to take that into account | 16:41 |
| SamYaple | no we dont need to track template == changed at all | 16:41 |
| SamYaple | since we compare running vs current config | 16:41 |
| sdake | one concern | 16:41 |
| SamYaple | ok | 16:42 |
| sdake | i want upgrades | 16:42 |
| sdake | really really want upgrades | 16:42 |
| sdake | i know they are related | 16:42 |
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| sdake | but i am concerned separating the work will make it harder to implement the ugprades | 16:42 |
| SamYaple | config work is going to ride the coatail of upgrades | 16:42 |
| sdake | shouldn't htis work come after? | 16:42 |
| sdake | ok wfm | 16:42 |
| sdake | then i'm good | 16:42 |
| sdake | as long as we aren't rollign it all together | 16:42 |
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| SamYaple | unicell: ^^ when you see this | 16:43 |
| SamYaple | oops wrong topic unicell | 16:43 |
| SamYaple | ok rhallisey im ready to move on | 16:43 |
| rhallisey | #topic Kolla-ansible delegate_to vs run_once | 16:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Kolla-ansible delegate_to vs run_once (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:43 | |
| rhallisey | okie | 16:43 |
| SamYaple | ok this one is for unicell | 16:43 |
| SamYaple | this is a tricky issue ill try to describe quickly | 16:43 |
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| SamYaple | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/271148/ | 16:44 |
| SamYaple | thats a related patch | 16:44 |
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| SamYaple | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/kolla/+bug/1520728 | 16:44 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1520728 in kolla "fatal: [openstack002] => One or more undefined variables: 'dict object' has no attribute 'stdout'" [Critical,In progress] | 16:44 |
| SamYaple | thats the bug | 16:44 |
| SamYaple | we have had several bugs on this issue and unicell finally tracked it down | 16:44 |
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| SamYaple | Ansible 1.9.4 has an issue with multiple host includes and roles and our inventory | 16:45 |
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| SamYaple | it is fixed in the 2.0 branch, but until 2.0 it will skip certain tasks even if it shouldnt | 16:45 |
| SamYaple | this makes certain inventory configs not useable with the bootstrap | 16:45 |
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| sdake | groan | 16:45 |
| SamYaple | essentially its broken for certain deploys | 16:45 |
| sdake | any more detail? | 16:45 |
| rhallisey | ouch | 16:46 |
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| SamYaple | yea but its technical and time consuming | 16:46 |
| sdake | can we get some docs on this ansible 1.9.4 deploy problem? | 16:46 |
| SamYaple | ill go over the options we have t ofix this | 16:46 |
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| rhallisey | SamYaple, ya that would be good | 16:46 |
| SamYaple | details can be provided later | 16:46 |
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| sdake | ok options then wfm | 16:46 |
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| SamYaple | two options, in no particular order of preference | 16:46 |
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| SamYaple | 1) upgrade ansible to 2.0. Lots of software has already made the switch. A 2.0 change is not very painful (ive analyzed the impact) it would just require us to run ansible 2.0 | 16:47 |
| SamYaple | (we can discuss these options in a minute) | 16:47 |
| inc0 | 1* affects upgrades | 16:47 |
| inc0 | but in a way we can handle it I think | 16:47 |
| SamYaple | 2) we can force all specific options that encounter this bug to use the first host in the appropriate group. This would fix it! But it would be if the first node is down, you cant run the playbooks at all | 16:48 |
| sdake | inc0 plan therei s deploy 1.9.4, then deploy liberty, then deploy 2.0.0 then upgrade to mitaka | 16:48 |
| SamYaple | the second option breaks high-availability in my mind | 16:48 |
| SamYaple | the first node must always be live or it all breaks | 16:49 |
| sdake | maybe i'm an old fuddy duddy but i hate adopting brand new 2.0.0 software for anssible 2 months prior to release when their test cases are very very weak | 16:49 |
| inc0 | if we upgrade to 2.0...do we still need kolla_docker? | 16:49 |
| SamYaple | inc0: yes | 16:49 |
| sdake | we are running our own module forever | 16:49 |
| SamYaple | ^^ | 16:49 |
| inc0 | ok | 16:49 |
| SamYaple | for docker* | 16:49 |
| sdake | right | 16:50 |
| SamYaple | its just too critical | 16:50 |
| sdake | its something we need to own | 16:50 |
| SamYaple | ok so those are the options we have | 16:50 |
| SamYaple | neither of them are great | 16:50 |
| inc0 | wfm, but kinda agree with Steve, upgrading to 2.0 will affect upgrades of kolla and we're awfully close to Mitaka | 16:50 |
| sdake | ok so lets analyze impact of waiting to 2.0.0 to newton | 16:50 |
| SamYaple | we could also ignore the issue and just have that be the issue for mitaka | 16:50 |
| rhallisey | how about option 2, then move to 2.0 later? | 16:50 |
| sdake | ha is slightly degraded? | 16:50 |
| rhallisey | and fix it properly | 16:50 |
| SamYaple | sdake: if first node is down, you can't run playbooks at all | 16:50 |
| inc0 | certain parts of deployment are causing errors | 16:51 |
| sdake | ok highly degraded | 16:51 |
| sdake | that kind of sucks | 16:51 |
| sdake | is there a third option | 16:51 |
| SamYaple | not that I know of | 16:51 |
| sdake | such as document what types of deploys will expose this bug | 16:51 |
| inc0 | ignore the issue for now? | 16:51 |
| SamYaple | inc0: yea thats the third | 16:51 |
| sdake | ignore is not a option inc0 | 16:51 |
| rhallisey | hehe | 16:51 |
| sdake | document and ignore would be ok i think :) | 16:51 |
| jpeeler | so is there more background for state of code in ansible 2.0? was it a complete rewrite? (sorry don't know) | 16:51 |
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| Jeffrey4l | how about use the option 1 and add a pre-check to make sure the first node is up. | 16:52 |
| SamYaple | but its really hitting the ebay bugs and Hui (and other) | 16:52 |
| sdake | jpeeler pretty much green field rwerite | 16:52 |
| dratushnyy | what if use 2.0 for deploys that exposes bug? | 16:52 |
| inc0 | ignore == document and ignore, I mean let's not fix it right now and get this as priority for N | 16:52 |
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| jpeeler | ah, that does make the decision tricky then | 16:52 |
| SamYaple | dratushnyy: we cant do a 2.0 and 1.9.x compatible structure for kolla | 16:52 |
| sdake | dratushnyy our code can onl yrun on 194 or 2.0.0 | 16:52 |
| sdake | if we could we would have done that already | 16:52 |
| inc0 | also I'd really like to have 1 release deprecation for deps... | 16:52 |
| SamYaple | personally, i think we should _not_ move to ansible 2.0 | 16:53 |
| rhallisey | inc0, I'm also thinking door #3 here | 16:53 |
| SamYaple | but crippling our multinode is bad too | 16:53 |
| sdake | i agree moving to ansible 2.0.0 prior to newton is a bad bad move | 16:53 |
| inc0 | SamYaple, we'll have to at some point | 16:53 |
| inc0 | we will only encounter more stuff like that | 16:53 |
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| SamYaple | inc0: in newton i plan to do it immediately after midcycle | 16:53 |
| rhallisey | #1 could ruin upgrades for M #2 is a workaround #3 release with a limiation | 16:53 |
| SamYaple | inc0: so it has time to sit | 16:53 |
| elemoine | sdake, you mean prior to mitaka (not newton) | 16:54 |
| sdake | in newton we could do at start of cycle | 16:54 |
| inc0 | SamYaple, wait till we pop newton branch plz | 16:54 |
| sdake | elemoine yes prior to mitaka sorry | 16:54 |
| sdake | ok lets focus guys | 16:54 |
| SamYaple | inc0: newton branch means we have released newton ;) | 16:54 |
| sdake | and gals | 16:54 |
| inc0 | SamYaple, can you list situations in which problem occurs? | 16:54 |
| inc0 | SamYaple, you know what I mean... | 16:55 |
| sdake | yes w eneed more details | 16:55 |
| sdake | we can dothis on the mailing list if its too time consuming | 16:55 |
| SamYaple | let me find unicell bug | 16:55 |
| sdake | SamYaple lets do it on the mailing list | 16:55 |
| sdake | nad i will schedule 20-30 misn at midcycle for this | 16:55 |
| sdake | so we can make a decision then | 16:55 |
| sdake | after we understand what situations its fails under | 16:55 |
| sdake | because that is a critical critical piece of missing information that is needed to make a decision | 16:56 |
| rhallisey | agreed | 16:56 |
| SamYaple | ok | 16:56 |
| rhallisey | SamYaple, you cool with stating a thread? | 16:56 |
| sdake | SamYaple can you take action to start thread? | 16:56 |
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| SamYaple | yea sure | 16:56 |
| sdake | thanks bro | 16:56 |
| inc0 | SamYaple, will you start thread? (3 times so you can't refuse) | 16:56 |
| inc0 | ;) | 16:56 |
| SamYaple | probably wait for unicell since this is his issue | 16:56 |
| rhallisey | :) | 16:56 |
| rhallisey | ok moving on | 16:57 |
| rhallisey | #topic Logging with Heka (spec and development) | 16:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Logging with Heka (spec and development) (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:57 | |
| rhallisey | elemoine, you have the floor | 16:57 |
| elemoine | ok, that's me :) | 16:57 |
| elemoine | the Heka spec got three +2's | 16:57 |
| sdake | SamYaple quick quesiton | 16:57 |
| elemoine | Can I start pushing a patch flow to Gerrit? Or should I wait for a more official approval? | 16:57 |
| sdake | could we somehow make thte code conditional to select the "2nd" node | 16:57 |
| rhallisey | elemoine, excellent | 16:57 |
| sdake | if the first node was down | 16:57 |
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| inc0 | yeah it's solid imho | 16:58 |
| rhallisey | elemoine, I think generally we have all the cores for on specs before we +a | 16:58 |
| sdake | like a config option "damnit select this node" | 16:58 |
| rhallisey | elemoine, can you link the spec? | 16:58 |
| sdake | apprently i'm lagged | 16:58 |
| elemoine | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/270906/ | 16:58 |
| elemoine | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/270906/ | 16:58 |
| sdake | ele yo uwill get a review from me when this meeting concludes | 16:58 |
| inc0 | how about we run heka in pararell to rsyslog - if you run central logging it's heka | 16:58 |
| rhallisey | elemoine, I don't want to delay it too long waiting on all cores, but would like a little more than 3 | 16:58 |
| rhallisey | so all cores please review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/270906/ | 16:59 |
| sdake | rhallisey we require 6 +2 votes | 16:59 |
| elemoine | sure, I'm just wondering if can start working on patches | 16:59 |
| rhallisey | after the meeting | 16:59 |
| elemoine | and push my patch stream to Gerrit | 16:59 |
| sdake | specs require simple majority | 16:59 |
| elemoine | fyi, this is the sort of patch stream I c | 16:59 |
| elemoine | consider pushing: | 16:59 |
| elemoine | https://github.com/openstack/kolla/compare/master...elemoine:heka-gerrit | 16:59 |
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| sdake | elemoine dont put it on github get it in the review queue please | 17:00 |
| rhallisey | elemoine, I'm cool with you start pushing them tbh | 17:00 |
| sdake | even if its not ready | 17:00 |
| sdake | so people dont have to hunt for it | 17:00 |
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| elemoine | that's exactly my question :) | 17:00 |
| sdake | just mark workflow -1 | 17:00 |
| elemoine | can I push that to Gerrit before the spec is fully approved | 17:00 |
| inc0 | I'm -1 on removing rsyslog just yet tho | 17:00 |
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| rhallisey | ya just -1 it | 17:00 |
| sdake | elemoine you can push to errit before spec is approved | 17:00 |
| elemoine | inc0, why? | 17:01 |
| sdake | elemoine i recommend placing a -2 at your top level patch | 17:01 |
| sdake | or marking it [wip] | 17:01 |
| sdake | so someone doesn't accidentally merge it during review | 17:01 |
| inc0 | elemoine, backward compatibility (I should change name to Michal "backward compatibility" Jastrzebski) | 17:01 |
| sdake | i wnat heka to go in as one big patch stream | 17:01 |
| inc0 | I want to lessen impact on upgrades | 17:01 |
| sdake | inc0 lol | 17:01 |
| SamYaple | inc0: that is never a requirement | 17:01 |
| SamYaple | we never said anything about backward compatibly | 17:02 |
| inc0 | however, old version doesn't have central logging | 17:02 |
| inc0 | Liberty | 17:02 |
| sdake | inc0 we roll forward not back | 17:02 |
| SamYaple | just like openstack | 17:02 |
| sdake | inc0 i think that really isn't a problem | 17:02 |
| SamYaple | for rollback of openstack you need DB restore | 17:02 |
| inc0 | so I'd say if you run central logging, its heka | 17:02 |
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| sdake | rsyslog didn't work fantastically well in liberty anyway | 17:02 |
| inc0 | well, I know | 17:02 |
| sdake | not criticising | 17:02 |
| inc0 | but if someone runs it they might build on it | 17:03 |
| inc0 | that's my point | 17:03 |
| sdake | just indicating - if we can just move it to heka and be done thats one less migration our users have to deal with | 17:03 |
| inc0 | we say "rsyslog will disapear completely in N" | 17:03 |
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| rhallisey | elemoine, did you have anything else you wanted to go over? | 17:03 |
| elemoine | yes, quick thing | 17:04 |
| inc0 | so my personal preference is to have it as default option, but an option for now | 17:04 |
| inc0 | for one release | 17:04 |
| sdake | inc0 leave feedback to that statement in hte review please | 17:04 |
| inc0 | sure | 17:04 |
| elemoine | inc0, people asked me if Heka could replace Rsyslog entirely, | 17:04 |
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| sdake | right after meeting | 17:04 |
| inc0 | I'm still +2 on spec tho | 17:04 |
| sdake | might actuallybe a good idea | 17:04 |
| elemoine | and now the request it to keep Rssyslog | 17:04 |
| sdake | if we had capacity to pull it off | 17:04 |
| inc0 | elemoine, just don't change anything with it and put one if statement in configs | 17:05 |
| inc0 | rest is the same | 17:05 |
| elemoine | inc0, oh I see | 17:05 |
| inc0 | I'm first person to say lets replace rsyslog | 17:05 |
| elemoine | it's also compatible with my patches | 17:05 |
| elemoine | ok understood | 17:05 |
| inc0 | let's just have at least some deprecation period | 17:05 |
| elemoine | wfm | 17:05 |
| elemoine | so | 17:05 |
| elemoine | another thing | 17:05 |
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| elemoine | We will need specific Lua decoders for parsing OpenStack, MySQL and RabbitMQ logs. | 17:06 |
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| elemoine | We already have these decoders, that we use in other projects (Fuel) | 17:06 |
| inc0 | I like lua | 17:06 |
| elemoine | Our plan to distribute these decoders as deb and rpm packages in the future | 17:06 |
| dratushnyy | Lua is nice | 17:06 |
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| elemoine | But if we don't have time to do that by Mitaka 3 (the 4th of March), will it be ok to have these Lua decoders in Kolla, really as a temporary solution? | 17:06 |
| sdake | license is whwat elemoine | 17:06 |
| inc0 | elemoine, can we do this in our tree? | 17:06 |
| sdake | need to know the license on all software | 17:07 |
| inc0 | I don't want to introduce new repo dependency for what probably will be less than 200 loc | 17:07 |
| elemoine | inc0, we have another code base that uses these decoders | 17:07 |
| nihilifer | they will be our custom decoders or some apche license compatibility? | 17:07 |
| elemoine | so we'd like to share them | 17:07 |
| sdake | what license | 17:07 |
| nihilifer | compatible* | 17:07 |
| ppetit | License of the lua plugins is in Fuel is Apache V2 | 17:07 |
| sdake | ASL2.0 is what makes my life easy | 17:07 |
| sdake | cool | 17:08 |
| sdake | i dont mind if they hit the repo - 200 lines of bloat for a cycle isnt' bad as long as it doesn't create an upgrade problem down the road | 17:08 |
| sdake | so eval that | 17:08 |
| sdake | start a thread on ml elemoine | 17:08 |
| elemoine | it won't be a problem | 17:08 |
| elemoine | sdake, ok I will | 17:08 |
| sdake | upgrade needs to be top of mind when people make new design changes ;) | 17:08 |
| elemoine | bottom line is | 17:08 |
| sdake | if you can't upgrade it in some way, then dont do it for mitaka please | 17:09 |
| sdake | newton wide open | 17:09 |
| elemoine | we'd like to have the Lua decoders outside Kolla | 17:09 |
| sdake | but mitaka we are super stretched | 17:09 |
| elemoine | but maybe not for Mitaka | 17:09 |
| sdake | ok i need 10 mins | 17:09 |
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| inc0 | elemoine, let's start by having them in tree as it's simplest and then we'll revisit ok? | 17:09 |
| sdake | rhallisey ^^ | 17:09 |
| elemoine | inc0, exactly what I'm suggesting | 17:09 |
| sdake | maybe 5 | 17:09 |
| elemoine | Im done | 17:10 |
| rhallisey | sdake, roger | 17:10 |
| rhallisey | cool thanks elemoine. Nice job on the spec | 17:10 |
| sdake | folks please review that spec | 17:10 |
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| sdake | lets get er looking sparkling pretty | 17:10 |
| rhallisey | #topic sdake's announcement | 17:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "sdake's announcement (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 17:10 | |
| sdake | like a diamon instead of lump of coal | 17:10 |
| sdake | not announcement | 17:10 |
| sdake | just topic | 17:10 |
| sdake | but | 17:10 |
| rhallisey | idk | 17:10 |
| sdake | i wanted to check in on how upgrades are coming along for people | 17:11 |
| sdake | can i get a rollcall list of where people are at | 17:11 |
| sdake | i'll go first | 17:11 |
| sdake | glance -> started implementation, will be complete by midcycle, distracted by remodel | 17:11 |
| sdake | heat -> wont be done by midcycle | 17:11 |
| inc0 | nova -> I'll rebase before midcycle | 17:12 |
| inc0 | docker -> scares the shit out of me | 17:12 |
| rhallisey | lol | 17:12 |
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| nihilifer | magnum -> just began the work | 17:12 |
| SamYaple | neutron -> needs thin containers then upgrade. thin containers done and working, but they required docker 1.10 | 17:12 |
| sdake | #link https://launchpad.net/kolla/+milestone/mitaka-3 | 17:12 |
| SamYaple | docker 1.10 is due out next week | 17:12 |
| SamYaple | (or tomorrow0 | 17:12 |
| Jeffrey4l | horizon -> done but need some review. | 17:12 |
| nihilifer | rabbitmq -> not started yet, will try to fdo before mid, but without promise | 17:12 |
| SamYaple | nihilifer: there is a rabbitmq patch already | 17:13 |
| nihilifer | oh... | 17:13 |
| nihilifer | i just saw free bp | 17:13 |
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| SamYaple | ill handle mariadb | 17:13 |
| nihilifer | but ok | 17:13 |
| * rhallisey did not grab an upgrade at devconf this week :( | 17:13 | |
| SamYaple | nihilifer: likely someone didnt grab it | 17:13 |
| inc0 | do we upgrade ceph? | 17:13 |
| nihilifer | will pick something else from infra | 17:13 |
| SamYaple | inc0: yup | 17:13 |
| inc0 | ceph will be funny | 17:13 |
| SamYaple | ceph will be easy | 17:13 |
| sdake | inc0 we will talk about infrastructure services at midcycle | 17:13 |
| *** Swami__ has quit IRC | 17:13 | |
| inc0 | yeah I don't expect problems there | 17:13 |
| sdake | I think we should jsut ugprade those once per cycle | 17:13 |
| SamYaple | ive done real --> kolla ceph migration and the kolla --> real! | 17:14 |
| sdake | towards the end | 17:14 |
| sdake | but that is just my opinion | 17:14 |
| sdake | we can have a more thorough discussion | 17:14 |
| inc0 | yeah, all is good apart from qemu | 17:14 |
| sdake | thanks for the roll call folks | 17:14 |
| sdake | looks like some progress is being made | 17:14 |
| inc0 | qemu is so disruptive that I'd like to keep that separated | 17:14 |
| sdake | try to get atleast one patch in teh queue (and working) | 17:14 |
| sdake | inc0 ok we can talk about upgrades at midcycle | 17:14 |
| sdake | I am ging to shcedule copious sessions :) | 17:15 |
| sdake | lets not beat dead horses | 17:15 |
| sdake | I just want people to be prepapred to discuss it with real-world experiences | 17:15 |
| SamYaple | sdake: but thats the thing me and inc0 do best! | 17:15 |
| sdake | which it sounds like we are | 17:15 |
| sdake | rhallisey all done thanks | 17:15 |
| rhallisey | sdake, cool | 17:15 |
| pbourke_ | swift -> started but slow, hope to have something up before midcycle | 17:15 |
| inc0 | I don't mind if they're close to dead as well | 17:15 |
| sdake | oh wait | 17:15 |
| sdake | pbourke_ going | 17:15 |
| pbourke_ | v. busy this week before I travel for midcycle | 17:15 |
| pbourke_ | whats that stake? | 17:16 |
| rhallisey | pbourke_, cool thanks | 17:16 |
| pbourke_ | (heh, auto correct) | 17:16 |
| sdake | pbourke_ i meant you were speaking now | 17:16 |
| sdake | mistake ;) | 17:16 |
| pbourke_ | ok that's me done :) | 17:16 |
| sdake | thats my other nickname :) | 17:16 |
| rhallisey | ok moving on | 17:16 |
| rhallisey | #topic Open Discussion | 17:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 17:16 | |
| SamYaple | i need to bring somehting up here | 17:16 |
| SamYaple | this patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/274154/ please comment away on it | 17:16 |
| SamYaple | its had some convterasy already | 17:17 |
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| SamYaple | thats all for me (i think) | 17:17 |
| sdake | SamYaple 20 second review i am in favor of a rename | 17:17 |
| sdake | i'll dig more into it | 17:17 |
| rhallisey | ya that wfm | 17:17 |
| jpeeler | +1 | 17:17 |
| inc0 | rename is cool if we provide migration plan | 17:18 |
| SamYaple | well coment there :P | 17:18 |
| inc0 | which shouldn't be hard | 17:18 |
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| sdake | SamYaple let me properly review it buti will do so after this meeting | 17:18 |
| SamYaple | inc0: thats discussed in the review | 17:18 |
| inc0 | just remove old and create new container | 17:18 |
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| SamYaple | yup | 17:18 |
| SamYaple | idempotent remove FTW | 17:18 |
| rhallisey | cool, anyone have anything else? | 17:18 |
| inc0 | this container doesn't do anything anyway, it just sits there after bootstraps and all | 17:18 |
| nihilifer | how we'll do that removal/creation? by some playbook or wat? | 17:18 |
| nihilifer | what* | 17:18 |
| SamYaple | nihilifer: yea in line playbook | 17:19 |
| SamYaple | its idempotent | 17:19 |
| inc0 | nihilifer, upgrade play would be my guess | 17:19 |
| SamYaple | not a sperate playbook | 17:19 |
| nihilifer | k | 17:19 |
| inc0 | upgrade will remove old container and add new, easy | 17:19 |
| inc0 | deploy will just well...deploy | 17:19 |
| SamYaple | like sunday morning | 17:19 |
| elemoine | should it be part of the patch then? | 17:19 |
| SamYaple | no | 17:19 |
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| inc0 | whatever | 17:20 |
| inc0 | as long as it lands in the cycle | 17:20 |
| SamYaple | we dont have common upgrade playbook yet | 17:20 |
| SamYaple | but we will | 17:20 |
| inc0 | well we kinda do | 17:20 |
| inc0 | I mean we will | 17:20 |
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| sdake | SamYaple you mean common between mesos and ansible? | 17:20 |
| inc0 | and you might as well start;) | 17:20 |
| elemoine | ok | 17:20 |
| inc0 | sdake, common as common role | 17:20 |
| SamYaple | sdake: common role | 17:20 |
| sdake | got it | 17:20 |
| SamYaple | oh hey i do have another topic | 17:20 |
| inc0 | kolla_ansible, rsyslog | 17:21 |
| sdake | ya | 17:21 |
| SamYaple | kolla-mesos and kolla-ansible and kolla overlap | 17:21 |
| SamYaple | nihilifer: ^ | 17:21 |
| sdake | fix upgrades | 17:21 |
| sdake | then we fix repos | 17:21 |
| inc0 | yeah lets move repo shuffling for N please | 17:21 |
| nihilifer | yes, it's not that urgent for me as well | 17:21 |
| rhallisey | I'd like it for M, but upgrades have prio here | 17:22 |
| sdake | i am not opposed to moving the repos around for mitaka, it can be done we have the capacity, but i absolutely want upgrades done first before any repo movement takes place | 17:22 |
| jpeeler | i don't think anybody can disagree with that | 17:23 |
| SamYaple | thats no the overlap i was tlaking about specifically | 17:23 |
| SamYaple | but yes to all of that | 17:23 |
| SamYaple | i was talkign about the tool and python code overlap | 17:23 |
| SamYaple | mesos dups _alot_ of code | 17:23 |
| SamYaple | code that exists in the kolla (not kolla-ansible) repo | 17:24 |
| sdake | and that is fixed how SamYaple ? | 17:24 |
| SamYaple | import kolla | 17:24 |
| SamYaple | rather than being its own code | 17:24 |
| sdake | right, so repo shuffle? | 17:24 |
| SamYaple | no... | 17:24 |
| SamYaple | no need to split repo to do what i say | 17:24 |
| sdake | ok cool then | 17:24 |
| sdake | i'm good with that kind of change | 17:24 |
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| sdake | as long as it doesn't slow down upgrades :) | 17:24 |
| SamYaple | nihilifer: need your thoughts on this | 17:24 |
| inc0 | yeah, this is clean | 17:24 |
| SamYaple | nothing to do with upgrades sdake | 17:25 |
| sdake | i understand | 17:25 |
| sdake | I just want to be crystal clear on this point folks - if we don't deliver upgrades in mitaka, it won't be pretty for us | 17:25 |
| sdake | the community will lose trust in our ability to execute which right now the ythink we are rockstars | 17:25 |
| nihilifer | SamYaple: ok, i think we can try with importing kolla | 17:25 |
| sdake | the operators wont take us seriously | 17:25 |
| sdake | so upgrades, upgrades, upgrades | 17:26 |
| nihilifer | and in some fat future think about better way of sharing commons | 17:26 |
| SamYaple | nihilifer: cool no rush, i justdon't want to deverge to much | 17:26 |
| inc0 | sdake, please do talk to your docker people, that's single biggest issue I have with upgrades now | 17:26 |
| SamYaple | well if kolla-mesos has a dep on kolla then this should work easy for sharing... no? | 17:26 |
| inc0 | I'm ok if that will happen in N cycle for us, noone runs Mitaka from day one anyway | 17:26 |
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| inc0 | but we need to be able to upgrade docker without restarting qemu imho | 17:27 |
| nihilifer | SamYaple: not exactly - they may be problems with sharing commons between kolla-ansible and ansible just for deploying mesos | 17:27 |
| nihilifer | and in deep N development - for k8s probably | 17:27 |
| sdake | inc0 i got people working on that | 17:27 |
| nihilifer | but that's something to think about in N | 17:27 |
| sdake | inc0 but fwiw its out of our control | 17:28 |
| SamYaple | nihilifer: yea im not sure about that part, i was refering to scripts and common.py and such | 17:28 |
| nihilifer | yep, for strictly pythonic stuff, importing kolla may work | 17:28 |
| inc0 | sdake, I know that it will be tricky, I moved some string on my end as well | 17:28 |
| rhallisey | 2 minutes guys just an fyi | 17:28 |
| SamYaple | ok im out! see you in #kolla | 17:28 |
| inc0 | but if we force people to restart vms for upgrade..that will be bad. | 17:28 |
| inc0 | imho | 17:29 |
| Guest44587 | inc0: +1 | 17:29 |
| sdake | ok folks thanks for coming :) | 17:29 |
| inc0 | I've been on too many ops summit upgrade sessions to say it won't | 17:29 |
| rhallisey | let's spill over to kolla | 17:29 |
| sdake | inc0 +0 atm :) | 17:29 |
| rhallisey | thank you everyone | 17:29 |
| inc0 | thanks | 17:29 |
| rhallisey | :) | 17:29 |
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| rhallisey | #endmeeting kolla | 17:29 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:29 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Feb 3 17:29:39 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:29 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2016/kolla.2016-02-03-16.30.html | 17:29 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2016/kolla.2016-02-03-16.30.txt | 17:29 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2016/kolla.2016-02-03-16.30.log.html | 17:29 |
| sdake | thanks rhallisey | 17:29 |
| sdake | appreciate it bro | 17:29 |
| rhallisey | sdake, no problem | 17:29 |
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| sdake | its fu nto participate in the meeting rather then run it :) | 17:29 |
| sdake | first time I've done that I think | 17:30 |
| rhallisey | sdake, heh :) | 17:30 |
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| rhallisey | I don't mind running it. It's fun | 17:30 |
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| dougwig | #startmeeting networking_lib | 17:31 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Feb 3 17:31:08 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dougwig. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:31 |
| * pc_m on via phone so limited typing. | 17:31 | |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_lib)" | 17:31 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_lib' | 17:31 |
| dougwig | #topic Announcements | 17:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking_lib)" | 17:31 | |
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| dougwig | Just a reminder of the neutron midcycle... | 17:31 |
| dougwig | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-mitaka-midcycle | 17:31 |
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| dougwig | #topic Open discussion | 17:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: networking_lib)" | 17:32 | |
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| dougwig | sorry, had a cold since sunday, so i didn't update the agenda. does anyone have any issues today? | 17:32 |
| pc_m | Would like to know what open tasks are avail as I have some BW | 17:33 |
| dougwig | ahh, yes, sorry. let's talk offline immediately after this ends? | 17:33 |
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| pc_m | I'm on PTO today. Connecting via phone. | 17:34 |
| dougwig | ok, when are you back? | 17:34 |
| pc_m | You can email, if desired | 17:34 |
| dougwig | ok | 17:34 |
| pc_m | Tomorrow | 17:34 |
| dougwig | anything else? otherwise i'll let you get back to pto. | 17:35 |
| * HenryG walks in late | 17:35 | |
| * dougwig waves. | 17:35 | |
| dougwig | HenryG: is your db base review getting an update soon? | 17:36 |
| pc_m | Not from me. Items in the open discussion in agenda can be discussed at some point. | 17:36 |
| dougwig | all of mine are broken with merge conflicts, which will be addressed today. | 17:36 |
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| HenryG | I'll try to update the db patch soon | 17:36 |
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| dougwig | ok, let's recover some of our morning. | 17:38 |
| dougwig | next week, we need to talk about how to deal with the agent goo. | 17:38 |
| HenryG | How about the lbaas patch? Is it ready? | 17:38 |
| dougwig | which one? | 17:38 |
| pc_m | TTYL | 17:39 |
| HenryG | https://review.openstack.org/253263 | 17:39 |
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| HenryG | It depends on the neutron patch | 17:39 |
| dougwig | it's ready, but it's chained off the neutron patch where you want the constants and exceptions files broken up, and that fix is going to be crazy time consuming. i'm going to try to do it today. | 17:39 |
| dougwig | i've been half wondering if we should two-step the neutron patch. | 17:40 |
| HenryG | Ah yes, do my comments make any sense? | 17:40 |
| HenryG | I recall being very tired when reviewing that | 17:41 |
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| dougwig | yes... and i've been very torn in my response. on the one hand, neutron.common can cease to exist. but... can it? are we lib'ing even things that only neutron itself uses? is there really nothing "common" that is purely neutron only? i've been going in circles. | 17:41 |
| dougwig | and then i wonder if it's too big a change to do all at once. and then i wonder if i'm just being lazy and don't want to do it. and then i'm due for more cold meds. | 17:42 |
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| HenryG | and them armax will -2 your patch | 17:42 |
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| pc_m | :) | 17:44 |
| dougwig | if we only fired dc on affected constants/exceptions, but left the others in place, would that work as an intermediate step? | 17:44 |
| dougwig | and no, i will *not* list them all individually in that case. | 17:44 |
| HenryG | dougwig: if you can figure out how to do that, I would love to see it | 17:44 |
| armax | what did I do? | 17:45 |
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| dougwig | you were just being your lovable self. | 17:45 |
| dougwig | HenryG: you poked the bear. you never poke the bear. | 17:45 |
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| dougwig | alright, anything else, or are we done? | 17:47 |
| HenryG | nothing more from me | 17:47 |
| dougwig | ok, then let's reclaim some time and update those patches.! :) | 17:47 |
| dougwig | #endmeeting | 17:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:48 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Feb 3 17:48:01 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:48 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_lib/2016/networking_lib.2016-02-03-17.31.html | 17:48 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_lib/2016/networking_lib.2016-02-03-17.31.txt | 17:48 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_lib/2016/networking_lib.2016-02-03-17.31.log.html | 17:48 |
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| TrumpetsHerald | Am I in the right place for the OsOps meeting? | 19:10 |
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| TrumpetsHerald | Is there no OsOps meeting today? | 19:17 |
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| anteaya | TrumpetsHerald: is this the meeting you were looking for? http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#OpenStack_OSOps/Monitoring_and_Tools_Working_Group | 20:23 |
| anteaya | it is an odd week, running date +%V gives me 05 | 20:26 |
| anteaya | there should have been a meeting or communication about it | 20:26 |
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| rbradfor | rockyg, ping | 21:03 |
| rockyg | Oops, rbradfor, I'm here! | 21:04 |
| rockyg | forgot. | 21:04 |
| rockyg | Got lost on the internet. Hhave a cold, so not as sharp as I sometimes am. | 21:04 |
| rockyg | jokke_, you here? | 21:04 |
| rockyg | #startmeeting log_wg | 21:05 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Wed Feb 3 21:05:15 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is rockyg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: log_wg)" | 21:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'log_wg' | 21:05 |
| rockyg | #topic Ops midcycle - config opts session | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ops midcycle - config opts session (Meeting topic: log_wg)" | 21:05 | |
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| rockyg | rbradfor, I'm socializing the work you are doing and want to get whatever info you need to help make this both as smooth and as useful as possible | 21:06 |
| rbradfor | ok, I saw your session proposed in the thread | 21:06 |
| rockyg | Yeah. I had proposed it earlier, but it got lost in Tom's mailbox. He thinks it's a good topic. | 21:07 |
| * rbradfor looking for that mail again | 21:07 | |
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| rockyg | Also, did I mention that all the config docs got converted to RST already? It means we can make the docs happen. | 21:08 |
| rockyg | The problem I see with the docs is that each project does the config opts section differently | 21:08 |
| rbradfor | rockyg, do you have reference links of "different" | 21:09 |
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| rockyg | So, if you take Oslo as the "default" way to do them, take a look at Nova's section. Lemme find the link | 21:10 |
| rbradfor | #link http://docs.openstack.org/developer/oslo.log/opts.html | 21:10 |
| rbradfor | #link http://docs.openstack.org/developer/oslo.messaging/opts.html | 21:11 |
| rbradfor | #link http://docs.openstack.org/developer/glance/opts.html | 21:11 |
| rbradfor | here are a few developer examples | 21:11 |
| rockyg | http://docs.openstack.org/liberty/config-reference/content/section_compute-config-samples.html | 21:11 |
| rockyg | Ah. You're looking at the dev docs. The config ref is the one I was looking at. | 21:12 |
| rbradfor | Do you know how these are generated? | 21:12 |
| rockyg | I think it's mostly a cut and paste and someone on the docs team did it. | 21:13 |
| rockyg | *topic Docs for config opts | 21:13 |
| rockyg | #topic Docs for config opts | 21:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs for config opts (Meeting topic: log_wg)" | 21:14 | |
| rockyg | lemme find the responsible docs sup ptl.... | 21:14 |
| rbradfor | rockyg, well if you can facilitate who in the team is doing it, and what the source copy is, that helps in validating the differences | 21:14 |
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| rbradfor | I am all for having the documentation driven from the oslo-config-generator and sphinxext (for RST) version. | 21:15 |
| rbradfor | your example I expect is a hand crafted file | 21:16 |
| rockyg | Yup. | 21:16 |
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| rockyg | I think we need to connect with the guy in charge of this particular doc and show him how it works. Some of the docs guys code, some don't. | 21:17 |
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| rbradfor | i think having an etherpad of what links we are referring to that are configuration option related (across all sources, dev, ops, conf guide) is a start | 21:17 |
| rbradfor | then the source of said information, which may determine cut/paste or duplication | 21:18 |
| rbradfor | of producing. | 21:18 |
| rbradfor | the goal of inconsistencies is to have only source of information. | 21:18 |
| rbradfor | of removing .. | 21:18 |
| rockyg | you wanna create the etherpad, or should I? We've got lots of links and I just got the link to the config guide docs team | 21:20 |
| rbradfor | I think it should probably be part of your config guide docs. | 21:20 |
| rbradfor | again, identifying all the different sources in documentation, e.g. a projects config | 21:21 |
| rbradfor | and then working on reducing the varying versions to be consistent | 21:21 |
| rockyg | Yah. But etherpad leads to config guide doc, not part of..... | 21:21 |
| rockyg | I can certainly collect all the places I can find, categorize and have it ready for the ops midcycle... | 21:22 |
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| rbradfor | well if your trying to present a case to have a config guide, it helps to source the existing versions of document for reference. you want to justify why each existing docs are incomplete or complex or duplicating | 21:23 |
| rockyg | There already is the config ref. do we want another doc or just better organize the current, with more info and single source of truth? | 21:24 |
| rbradfor | I can certainly help in ensuring configuration documentation (and sample config files) get generated, and hopefully we can get projects to be consistent about it. | 21:24 |
| rockyg | But then, we'd also have to make sure that dev docs match user docs, too. | 21:25 |
| rbradfor | I thought you were creating a new config reference. Does it exist now? | 21:25 |
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| rockyg | Yup. Thats the first link I pointed you to with the sample configs | 21:25 |
| rockyg | And here's the link to the team: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/ConfigRef | 21:26 |
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| rockyg | In fact, there's even a todo to get the opts section(s) better. | 21:27 |
| rbradfor | so you mentioned "Convert the Configuration Reference from DocBook to RST" is done. | 21:28 |
| rockyg | Yup. | 21:28 |
| rockyg | I saw that in one of the What's Up Doc emails. | 21:28 |
| rockyg | Which means that your generator stuff can just slide in there.... | 21:29 |
| rbradfor | ok, so looking at blueprint at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+spec/config-ref-rst and an example recent review at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/259889/ | 21:29 |
| rbradfor | we are in openstack/openstack-manuals repo and config-reference | 21:30 |
| rbradfor | I don't see a gate that provides a link to physically show what the changes look like. | 21:31 |
| rockyg | Hmm. | 21:31 |
| rbradfor | let me give you an example I understand | 21:31 |
| rbradfor | Add Configuration Options to Glance Developer Docs - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/270920/ | 21:32 |
| rbradfor | You can see the proposed documentation generated (as in review) at http://docs-draft.openstack.org/20/270920/4/check/gate-glance-docs/0e8ef17//doc/build/html/ | 21:32 |
| rbradfor | when that review is merged, this becomes http://docs.openstack.org/developer/glance/ | 21:32 |
| rbradfor | I do not know the workflow of openstack-manuals | 21:33 |
| rockyg | so, you can see a gate build I think.....gate-openstack-manuals-tox-doc-publish-checkbuild in the list of jobs, but the link is gone | 21:33 |
| rbradfor | I saw that | 21:34 |
| rockyg | And the wiki points to kilo stuff....hmm....Lemme track back to main docs wiki page | 21:35 |
| rbradfor | Liberty -- http://docs.openstack.org/liberty/config-reference/content/config_overview.html | 21:35 |
| rbradfor | mitaka links don't seem to work | 21:35 |
| rockyg | So, there are directions to build the "patch" locally: http://docs.openstack.org/contributor-guide/docs-review.html | 21:37 |
| rockyg | It's down a bit on the page. I'm at home so don't have the setup for repos an builds.... | 21:38 |
| rbradfor | do Mitaka docs get published on the site before it's officially released? | 21:39 |
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| rockyg | No. Yhey put the links up at release, which is about a week after code release. But I think they have internal links for devs to review sometime after M3 | 21:41 |
| rbradfor | ok, well what can I do from the developer docs perspective to generate docs that are incorporated. | 21:42 |
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| rockyg | Ok. Also found this note on the docs wiki: "The Configuration Reference and the Networking Guide are versioned, all other guides are continuously published." | 21:43 |
| rbradfor | and as I look back at links, how does this also relate to the Openstack Operations Guide - http://docs.openstack.org/openstack-ops/content/ | 21:43 |
| rbradfor | maybe that's totally separate | 21:44 |
| rockyg | I'll see if I can connect with Gauvain and maybe get some sync up happening. I'll put togehter an etherpad with all these links, plus others, and let you know.... | 21:44 |
| rbradfor | There is a "Configuration Reference" link on the home page ,http://docs.openstack.org/ it goes to http://docs.openstack.org/liberty/config-reference/content/ | 21:44 |
| rockyg | Yup. That's the versioned copy. | 21:45 |
| rbradfor | so, if the conversion to RST is complete, the question is does it look a lot like the Liberty version? | 21:45 |
| rbradfor | and if the content is not being generated, how is being sourced, e.g. cut/paste as you proposed | 21:45 |
| rbradfor | and how can we then better generate the configuration options and configuration sample files. | 21:46 |
| rbradfor | How it's then ordered or categorized into the configuration guide, e.g. a global logging session is something for the docs team to decide on, hopefully based on your recommendations | 21:46 |
| rockyg | Here's an interesting link on the docs wiki: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/openstack-doc-tools/tree/autogenerate_config_docs/README.rst | 21:47 |
| rbradfor | again, I'm not familar with the docs team way of doing things. | 21:48 |
| rockyg | Yeahl I can use the ops midcycle to find out what besides logging they want in a more "global' chapter. I'm not enough into docs either. I fixed a bug or two there, but I just edited the xml back then and left the rest to the docs team. | 21:49 |
| rockyg | I'll hook up with them, show them the dev config doc stuff and see where it goes from there. Might have the guy for config doc come to one of our meetings. | 21:50 |
| rockyg | Like to get this in Mitaka version. | 21:50 |
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| rockyg | How about I put together an etherpad, talk to Gauvain, have him review the etherpad, then you, and see if we can send to the dev mailing list to get comments, get them to do their part in their projects? | 21:52 |
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| rbradfor | I think verifying the source of information used in the config guide first is important. | 21:53 |
| rockyg | OK. I'll connect with docs folks. | 21:53 |
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| rockyg | Right after I put all these links on an etherpad for reference. | 21:54 |
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| rockyg | #action Rocky to collect up config links that reference config opts and circle back to Docs to see how docs generate their config info | 21:55 |
| rockyg | Good enough for today? | 21:55 |
| rbradfor | sounds good | 21:55 |
| rockyg | #topic Open discussion | 21:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: log_wg)" | 21:56 | |
| rockyg | I got nuthin else. | 21:56 |
| rbradfor | no, still working on removing some deprecated options (so they get removed from the docs) | 21:56 |
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| rockyg | OK. I'll let you get back to it, then. It will be nice to see some of them go away. | 21:57 |
| rockyg | Thanks so much! | 21:57 |
| rockyg | #endmeeting | 21:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:57 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Feb 3 21:57:30 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:57 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/log_wg/2016/log_wg.2016-02-03-21.05.html | 21:57 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/log_wg/2016/log_wg.2016-02-03-21.05.txt | 21:57 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/log_wg/2016/log_wg.2016-02-03-21.05.log.html | 21:57 |
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| rockyg | rbradfor, you still around? Got a working link for the draft doc.... | 22:12 |
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