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| xichengc | #info | 01:27 |
|---|---|---|
| kerwin | #info | 01:27 |
| xichengc | #startmeeting Compass Weekly Meeting | 01:29 |
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Nov 20 01:29:36 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is xichengc. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 01:29 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 01:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Compass Weekly Meeting)" | 01:29 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'compass_weekly_meeting' | 01:29 |
| xichengc | #topic Compass task list | 01:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Compass task list (Meeting topic: Compass Weekly Meeting)" | 01:29 | |
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| xichengc | #info we will go over the task list and check the status of each one | 01:30 |
| xichengc | 1. install.sh on CentOS7 | 01:30 |
| xichengc | kerwin can you update the status | 01:30 |
| kerwin | xichengc: in progress, we will complete by next tuesday | 01:31 |
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| xichengc | #action kerwin will check status with Paul | 01:32 |
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| xichengc | 2. Compass-web switch to 2.5. | 01:33 |
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| xichengc | This is still in progress and will be done by tomorrow. | 01:33 |
| xichengc | we still need to add some support for new networking configurations | 01:33 |
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| xichengc | kerwin anything else on this? | 01:33 |
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| kerwin | xichengc: no | 01:33 |
| xichengc | 3. installation progress tracking(xicheng/baigk) | 01:34 |
| xichengc | I think this is not very important for now. | 01:34 |
| xichengc | let's check this next week. | 01:34 |
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| xichengc | 4. OpenStack Liberty support | 01:35 |
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| xichengc | can grakiss update on this? | 01:35 |
| MatthewL4 | grakiss: are u there? | 01:35 |
| MatthewL4 | #info Jun Li | 01:36 |
| kerwin | xichengc: xuhan will do this | 01:36 |
| xichengc | ok | 01:36 |
| MatthewL4 | good | 01:37 |
| xichengc | #action xuhan will work on liberty support | 01:37 |
| xichengc | 5. ODL configuration debugging | 01:37 |
| xichengc | kerwin when will do this? | 01:37 |
| kerwin | xichengc: ok | 01:37 |
| xichengc | can we start this week? | 01:37 |
| kerwin | xichengc: yes | 01:38 |
| xichengc | #topic Compass CI | 01:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Compass CI (Meeting topic: Compass Weekly Meeting)" | 01:38 | |
| xichengc | #action xichengc and kerwin to get compass-ci work in the lab | 01:38 |
| May-meimei | our own CI is running now? | 01:39 |
| xichengc | May-meimei yes | 01:39 |
| May-meimei | good | 01:39 |
| xichengc | some Jenkins slaves have failures though | 01:40 |
| xichengc | this needs more investigation | 01:40 |
| MatthewL4 | xichengc: I am interested in your Jenkins infra, I will talk to tomorrow | 01:41 |
| MatthewL4 | talk you tomorrow | 01:41 |
| xichengc | MatthewL4 sure | 01:41 |
| MatthewL4 | nice | 01:41 |
| xichengc | #topic Merge code to master branch | 01:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Merge code to master branch (Meeting topic: Compass Weekly Meeting)" | 01:41 | |
| xichengc | kerwin what's the status on this? | 01:42 |
| kerwin | xichengc: done | 01:42 |
| xichengc | kerwin thanks | 01:42 |
| xichengc | I think this is it. | 01:42 |
| xichengc | anything else? | 01:42 |
| xichengc | anything else? ....5 | 01:42 |
| xichengc | anything else? ....4 | 01:42 |
| xichengc | anything else? ....3 | 01:42 |
| xichengc | anything else? ....2 | 01:42 |
| xichengc | anything else? ....1 | 01:42 |
| xichengc | #endmeeting | 01:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 01:42 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Nov 20 01:42:46 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 01:42 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/compass_weekly_meeting/2015/compass_weekly_meeting.2015-11-20-01.29.html | 01:42 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/compass_weekly_meeting/2015/compass_weekly_meeting.2015-11-20-01.29.txt | 01:42 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/compass_weekly_meeting/2015/compass_weekly_meeting.2015-11-20-01.29.log.html | 01:42 |
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| matt-borland | o/ | 15:01 |
| Piet | #startmeeting openstack_ux | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Nov 20 15:01:31 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Piet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack_ux)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_ux' | 15:01 |
| matt-borland | hello | 15:01 |
| Piet | Good morning | 15:01 |
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| Piet | Let's wait four minutes for folks to wonder in | 15:02 |
| matt-borland | sounds good | 15:02 |
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| Piet | Hi Rob, we're waiting for a few minutes for people to wander in | 15:05 |
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| robcresswell | Sure thing. I'm packing to go away for the weekend, so apologies in advance if my replies are a little slow. | 15:06 |
| Piet | np | 15:06 |
| Piet | Ok, lets take role | 15:06 |
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| Piet | show of hands | 15:06 |
| julim | hiya | 15:06 |
| ducttape_ | 0/ | 15:07 |
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| matt-borland | o/ | 15:07 |
| matt-borland | | | 15:07 |
| matt-borland | | | 15:07 |
| matt-borland | \ | 15:07 |
| Piet | So, we need to make sure the new designers are attending this meeting | 15:07 |
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| Piet | If you don't mind, I'm going to use the time to provide status and let you ask questions | 15:08 |
| Piet | #topic personas | 15:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "personas (Meeting topic: openstack_ux)" | 15:08 | |
| Piet | Stan has added the personas to a wiki for the team. Note that this is a work-in-progress | 15:09 |
| Piet | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Personas_2015 | 15:09 |
| julim | it looks good | 15:09 |
| Piet | Yep - stan did an awesome job | 15:10 |
| Piet | We are planning a survey in two weeks to validate the work and produce additional content | 15:10 |
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| Piet | tempplate for validation survey can be found at https://docs.google.com/document/d/10r40CkCVXcjiQ7YQMES06wvHDe8JmN2Zur5C0uDytdg/edit?usp=sharing | 15:11 |
| Piet | Pls feel free to leave comments | 15:11 |
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| Piet | Ju, are you able to create definitions for the they different areas of focus? Hardware, Infrastructure, etc? | 15:13 |
| Piet | "the" | 15:14 |
| julim | yes | 15:14 |
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| julim | thanks for reminder | 15:15 |
| julim | in survey or epad? | 15:15 |
| Piet | Cool - we could also reach-out to Shamial to see if he has time | 15:15 |
| Piet | Here - https://docs.google.com/document/d/10r40CkCVXcjiQ7YQMES06wvHDe8JmN2Zur5C0uDytdg/edit?usp=sharing | 15:15 |
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| Piet | We're hoping to collaborate with the user committee on the survey, but need to understand whether they are able to respond to requests quickly enough | 15:17 |
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| Piet | julim and I met with them earlier this week | 15:17 |
| Piet | Any questions on the personas | 15:17 |
| Piet | ? | 15:17 |
| Piet | 5 | 15:17 |
| Piet | 4 | 15:17 |
| Piet | 3 | 15:17 |
| Piet | 2 | 15:18 |
| Piet | 1 | 15:18 |
| Piet | #topic Move to a UX repository (Gerrit) | 15:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Move to a UX repository (Gerrit) (Meeting topic: openstack_ux)" | 15:18 | |
| Piet | hurgleburgler are you around? | 15:18 |
| Piet | So, we had some issues because the openstack-ux launchpad was taken by someone else | 15:19 |
| Piet | I believe it was created a few years ago when a UX project was first being proposed | 15:20 |
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| Piet | So, we're trying to sort this all out. hurgleburgler is helping with this effort | 15:21 |
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| Piet | The intent is to have the approval process happen in gerrit with reviews in Invision (until we move to pholio) | 15:22 |
| Piet | Any questions? | 15:22 |
| robcresswell | Yeah | 15:22 |
| robcresswell | Have we decided on how that actually works yet? | 15:22 |
| Piet | Reviews in Gerritt? | 15:23 |
| robcresswell | As in, what are we actually approving... a link? | 15:23 |
| ducttape_ | the review should have attached a pdf / jpg / png I think | 15:23 |
| ducttape_ | possibly a link to invision too, in the comments | 15:23 |
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| Piet | ducttape_ yep | 15:23 |
| ducttape_ | but we try to do the preliminary work in invision, to flush out 90% of the questions / issues | 15:23 |
| hurgleburgler | (◠‿◠✿)ノ | 15:23 |
| Piet | The issue with Invision is that PDFs that include comments can be 75+ pages, so you need to create a PDF with just the images and link to Invision for comments | 15:24 |
| ducttape_ | does that seem ok robcresswell? you'd have a version of some pdf or images then residing in the repo? | 15:24 |
| Piet | ducctape_ yep | 15:24 |
| robcresswell | Hmm, I suppose | 15:24 |
| robcresswell | Interesting anyway, I'll have a think on it :) | 15:25 |
| ducttape_ | the first review will be a learning experience. it will be weird initially | 15:25 |
| robcresswell | I like that we're moving openstack tooling though | 15:25 |
| hurgleburgler | me too | 15:25 |
| Piet | I believe one of the responsibility of the cores is to confirm that they actually answered any questions in Invision | 15:25 |
| ducttape_ | we might see if openstack infra can setup gerrit to better show images / other file types | 15:25 |
| robcresswell | Also may need a UXImpact for cross-project bugs etc. | 15:26 |
| Piet | painful, but think its the right thing to do | 15:26 |
| robcresswell | Worth chatting to the docs folks about how to tackle that | 15:26 |
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| Piet | yep - I'm actually speaking with a few of the docs folks that are interested in providing content for the UIs | 15:27 |
| hurgleburgler | Did Jaromir changed ownership of the ux-core group yet? | 15:27 |
| Piet | hurgleburgler I believe he changed ownership to infra | 15:27 |
| hurgleburgler | https://launchpad.net/openstack-ux is infra now | 15:28 |
| Piet | I need to chat with the infra group to see happens next | 15:28 |
| hurgleburgler | but https://launchpad.net/~openstack-ux-core is still owned by Jaromir | 15:28 |
| Piet | Ahhhh.... | 15:29 |
| hurgleburgler | He only changed the project | 15:29 |
| hurgleburgler | not the group | 15:29 |
| Piet | I hope to have more time to focus on this next week | 15:29 |
| hurgleburgler | once the group is changed, we should be able to change the project | 15:29 |
| Piet | hurgleburgler Kk | 15:30 |
| Piet | I may even have some time today | 15:30 |
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| robcresswell | Just send another email, last time the response was fast | 15:30 |
| Piet | robcresswell to the infra team? | 15:31 |
| robcresswell | jaromir | 15:31 |
| Piet | Cool | 15:31 |
| Piet | Anything else? | 15:31 |
| robcresswell | Thats all from me boss :) | 15:31 |
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| Piet | Heh | 15:32 |
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| Piet | It will be good to formalize the UX cores within OpenStack | 15:32 |
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| hurgleburgler | \o/ | 15:32 |
| Piet | 5 | 15:32 |
| Piet | 4 | 15:32 |
| Piet | 3 | 15:32 |
| Piet | 2 | 15:32 |
| Piet | 1 | 15:32 |
| Piet | #topic LBaaS | 15:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "LBaaS (Meeting topic: openstack_ux)" | 15:33 | |
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| Piet | Design on LBaaS is done with the exception of modals for in-row actions | 15:33 |
| Piet | Very good meeting this week to come to a consensus. Thanks to ducttape_ for helping to drive changes | 15:34 |
| ducttape_ | yep, thanks to all who contributed :D | 15:35 |
| Piet | It does represent a slight change in how we think about Horizon, IMHO | 15:35 |
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| ducttape_ | I think some of what we explored with lbaas, could come back around to improve the neutron / network setup experience within horizon too | 15:36 |
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| Piet | "Small wins" - it feels like workflows will allow users to create objects quickly with minimum choices | 15:36 |
| ducttape_ | which has been a pain point for some time now, my $.02 | 15:36 |
| Piet | ducttape_ yep | 15:36 |
| Piet | A big part of the change is that users should be dumped into the details panel after creating an object (most of the time..there will be exceptions) | 15:37 |
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| Piet | The idea is that dropping them into the details panel allows users to make further, more sophisticated changes if they chose | 15:38 |
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| Piet | Does that kind of make sense to the rest of the group? | 15:38 |
| robcresswell | What was the thinking behind that? | 15:39 |
| robcresswell | It depends if users spend more time adding/ editing a single resource, or if they spend more time creating multiple objects in a row. | 15:39 |
| Piet | Huge workflows tend to scare users because they look long (# of steps) and complicated | 15:39 |
| Piet | ducttape_ agreed? | 15:40 |
| hurgleburgler | i agree with that statement | 15:41 |
| Piet | robcresswell Interesting point because we may want to include a Save and add another button | 15:41 |
| ducttape_ | not sure I agree that large workflows always scare users | 15:41 |
| ducttape_ | I'd word it like this.... | 15:41 |
| ducttape_ | "If you have to complete 4 steps to have something useful - then the initial create workflow should have all 4 steps included in there" | 15:41 |
| Piet | Thinking I need to punch ducttape_ in the arm | 15:41 |
| ducttape_ | yes, I mean a workflow with 20 steps is horrid, that much is true | 15:42 |
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| Piet | ducttape_ sure, makes sense | 15:42 |
| robcresswell | Piet: I don't have any numbers either way, but that seems like it would be the important metric. You don't want people being dumped on to the details page if 90% of the time they hit back and create another item. | 15:42 |
| ducttape_ | robcresswell - do you use neutron? | 15:42 |
| Piet | robresswell we should allow them to chose | 15:42 |
| hurgleburgler | I still think all complicated workflows should have an advanced user view that can be toggled to | 15:43 |
| robcresswell | ducttape_: Yeah | 15:43 |
| ducttape_ | and how is your experience setting up a usable network in there? that is the case and point | 15:43 |
| robcresswell | Ha, sure | 15:43 |
| ducttape_ | you have to jump through network / router / subnet etc to get something working | 15:43 |
| robcresswell | Right, but thats my point; if they're going to be customising that one resource then that change makes sense | 15:43 |
| ducttape_ | the same is true for lbaas, albeit the steps are different | 15:44 |
| robcresswell | Sure | 15:44 |
| robcresswell | Well | 15:44 |
| robcresswell | Thats good then :D | 15:44 |
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| ducttape_ | so the analogy is that we are creating a single workflow to setup network / router / subnet | 15:44 |
| ducttape_ | but you are not required to complete all steps | 15:45 |
| ducttape_ | but ideally, you will want to | 15:45 |
| Piet | robresswell There's also the issue of objects with objects embedded in other objects embedded in other objects. Suddenly you run the risk of modals on modals | 15:45 |
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| robcresswell | Makes sense | 15:47 |
| Piet | Anything else? This conversation will inevitably need to continue | 15:47 |
| Piet | Ready to close? | 15:47 |
| Piet | 5 | 15:47 |
| Piet | 4 | 15:47 |
| Piet | 3 | 15:48 |
| Piet | 2 | 15:48 |
| Piet | 1 | 15:48 |
| matt-borland | 2.5 | 15:48 |
| Piet | Heh | 15:48 |
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| TravT | guess i'll catch the logs | 15:48 |
| Piet | engineer humor | 15:48 |
| Piet | #topic | 15:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack_ux)" | 15:48 | |
| Piet | #topic Mock-up Review Guidelines | 15:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mock-up Review Guidelines (Meeting topic: openstack_ux)" | 15:48 | |
| Piet | Intel is working on mock review guidelines for the team | 15:49 |
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| hurgleburgler | like, wireframe guidelines? | 15:49 |
| Piet | Sort of a checkbox for conducting reviews | 15:49 |
| Piet | Yep, aka heurisitic | 15:49 |
| Piet | They will need some help because they don't have a lot of context around Horizon | 15:50 |
| TravT | wiki? | 15:50 |
| Piet | Currently in Google docs | 15:50 |
| Piet | Need to find the link | 15:51 |
| Piet | I think it could also incorporate some higher level ways we think about GUIs such as the "small victories" pjilosophy | 15:51 |
| Piet | "philosophy" | 15:51 |
| Piet | But think it's sooper important if we want to be consistent | 15:52 |
| TravT | have you thought more about having a simple git repo for submitting / tracking design reviews and their voting? | 15:53 |
| hurgleburgler | consistency is the hob... | 15:53 |
| hurgleburgler | oh, nm :-D | 15:53 |
| robcresswell | TravT: logs :p | 15:53 |
| TravT | ok | 15:53 |
| * TravT had to run kids to school this morning. | 15:53 | |
| hurgleburgler | TravT quick answer: we are working on that | 15:53 |
| Piet | Any other questions about a hueristic? | 15:53 |
| Piet | Here's a link to the Nielsen Norman hueristic for UI design http://www.nngroup.com/articles/ten-usability-heuristics/ | 15:54 |
| Piet | any other questions? | 15:55 |
| Piet | 5 | 15:55 |
| Piet | 4 | 15:55 |
| Piet | 3 | 15:55 |
| Piet | 2.5 | 15:55 |
| Piet | 2 | 15:55 |
| Piet | 1 | 15:55 |
| Piet | #topic content | 15:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "content (Meeting topic: openstack_ux)" | 15:55 | |
| Piet | Finding a link for reference | 15:56 |
| Piet | One sec | 15:56 |
| Piet | We are working with Docs to add a GUI content section to http://docs.openstack.org/contributor-guide/index.html | 15:57 |
| Piet | That standardizes on terms, labels, etc | 15:57 |
| ducttape_ | I wonder if cli tools should have a UX aspect to them. like using consistent arguments / variable names etc | 15:58 |
| Piet | Also, stuff like where section descriptions should start with a noun or verb | 15:58 |
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| Piet | ducttape_ we're actually running a usability on the new Unified CLI | 15:58 |
| Piet | Intersted to see how folks respond to the different commands that are used | 15:58 |
| Piet | ok - one minute | 15:59 |
| Piet | #topic open floor | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open floor (Meeting topic: openstack_ux)" | 15:59 | |
| Piet | anything else? | 15:59 |
| TravT | We have somebody adding CLI to searchlight. | 15:59 |
| TravT | wouldn't be bad to get some ux input on it | 16:00 |
| Piet | Unified CLI? | 16:00 |
| TravT | it is a plugin to openstack unified CLI | 16:00 |
| TravT | - yes | 16:00 |
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| ducttape_ | that helps TravT, good starting point | 16:00 |
| Piet | yep - probably be worth participating in the usability study planning | 16:00 |
| * ducttape_ has gotta jet | 16:00 | |
| TravT | ok | 16:01 |
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| Piet | Have a good weekend! | 16:01 |
| Piet | #endmeeting openstack_ux | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Nov 20 16:01:24 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_ux/2015/openstack_ux.2015-11-20-15.01.html | 16:01 |
| robcresswell | i/ | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_ux/2015/openstack_ux.2015-11-20-15.01.txt | 16:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_ux/2015/openstack_ux.2015-11-20-15.01.log.html | 16:01 |
| robcresswell | o/ * | 16:01 |
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