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| eglute | Defcore meeting is in #openstack-defcore | 16:06 |
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| blogan | eglute: ah | 16:11 |
| eglute | blogan join us there! | 16:12 |
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| blogan | eglute: just did :) | 16:12 |
| eglute | :) | 16:12 |
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| sdake | #startmeeting kolla | 16:33 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 11 16:33:12 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sdake. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:33 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:33 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'kolla' | 16:33 |
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| sdake | #topic rollcall | 16:33 |
| rhallisey | hi | 16:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:33 | |
| jmccarthy | hi | 16:33 |
| stvnoyes | hi | 16:33 |
| sdake | yo \0/ | 16:33 |
| bmace | hey | 16:33 |
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| jpeeler | o/ | 16:33 |
| britthouser | o/ | 16:33 |
| pbourke | hi | 16:33 |
| pbourke | SamYaple: yo | 16:34 |
| SamYaple | pbourke: pong | 16:34 |
| sdake | #topoic objectives for m1/m2/m3 | 16:34 |
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| sdake | #topic objectives for m1/m2/m3 | 16:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "objectives for m1/m2/m3 (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:34 | |
| sdake | hey folks | 16:34 |
| sdake | I'd like to discusss at a high level what our objectives for m1/m2/m3 are | 16:34 |
| sdake | to facilitate the priorities of blueprints | 16:34 |
| sdake | I was thinking backend the filling out of the big tent nto m2/m3 | 16:35 |
| sdake | and fixing the gaps/problems in m1 | 16:35 |
| pbourke | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Kolla-Mitaka-Roadmap | 16:35 |
| sdake | ya thats a pretty weak roadmap imo ;) | 16:35 |
| sdake | we only ahd 40 mins | 16:35 |
| pbourke | yeah but its a start | 16:36 |
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| sdake | things like upgrade are missing | 16:36 |
| sdake | things like light out recovery are missing | 16:37 |
| britthouser | So under big tent - are all those containerized and just need ansible? or some have no containers at all? | 16:37 |
| sdake | does anyone care what order we go in? | 16:37 |
| pbourke | nope | 16:37 |
| SamYaple | britthouser: some stuff has no containers | 16:37 |
| sdake | britthouser some have containers but most need both | 16:37 |
| britthouser | Ok. thx | 16:37 |
| pbourke | sdake: how do you want to drive it | 16:38 |
| SamYaple | fyi im working on an outage so ill be in and out | 16:38 |
| sdake | ok so nobody cares on ordering ? :) | 16:38 |
| pbourke | brainstorm bp titles? | 16:38 |
| SamYaple | sorry | 16:38 |
| SamYaple | but ping me and ill respond | 16:38 |
| sdake | i just want to know if we should lod all thegood work up front or spread it between miletstones | 16:39 |
| sdake | the problem wiht loading it all up front is that we will b bored for m2/m3 | 16:39 |
| sdake | of course my definition of good work is stuff that is highly technical and challenging and not repeititve | 16:39 |
| sdake | this may be different then pbourke 's definition::) | 16:39 |
| SamYaple | we need logging right now | 16:40 |
| SamYaple | its needed for the gate to be effective | 16:40 |
| SamYaple | and it needs to be backported | 16:40 |
| sdake | i tought we had logging mnus a few sservices | 16:40 |
| SamYaple | no | 16:40 |
| SamYaple | none of the logging works like it should | 16:40 |
| SamYaple | we dont capture stack traces | 16:40 |
| SamYaple | those still go to stderr | 16:40 |
| SamYaple | and we dont do any of the non-openstack services | 16:40 |
| SamYaple | we need to get that done right and inc0 is out of commision for probably a few weeks | 16:41 |
| SamYaple | I have other gate things I am doing on the side form my real job | 16:41 |
| sdake | probably loner - job changes are very dirsuptive | 16:41 |
| SamYaple | sdake: not a job change | 16:41 |
| SamYaple | just a location change | 16:41 |
| SamYaple | doesnt matter, either way its a big issue | 16:42 |
| SamYaple | i think it can be solved fairly quickly, but someone needs to won it | 16:42 |
| SamYaple | own* | 16:42 |
| sdake | ok well since my memory is not lik ea computes, lets get the stuff in eherpad | 16:42 |
| sdake | please folks open up that roadmap etherpad and lets brain storm all the stuff we need to taclke | 16:42 |
| sdake | and i'll just put em all in m1 | 16:42 |
| sdake | and we can roll em as necessary to m2/m3 | 16:42 |
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| sdake | find them and destroy them1 | 16:44 |
| britthouser | so roadmap sounds alot like the 1.1 list | 16:45 |
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| britthouser | is that b/c we'll do those in M1, before backport to liberty? | 16:45 |
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| SamYaple | britthouser: the 1.1 list is a subset of this | 16:47 |
| SamYaple | pretty major subset | 16:47 |
| britthouser | Ok...I'll double check the 1.1 list and make sure they are in the etherpad too | 16:47 |
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| sdake | ok if thre is nothing else i'll continue | 16:51 |
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| sdake | #topic mitaka #1 review | 16:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "mitaka #1 review (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 16:52 | |
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| sdake | #link https://launchpad.net/kolla/+milestone/mitaka-1 | 16:52 |
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| sdake | things are looking pretty good, minus we rae not effectivel hditributing the work | 16:53 |
| sdake | when i file all those blueprints after this meeting from the brainstorm session | 16:53 |
| sdake | i would like folks to take on blueprints | 16:53 |
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| rhallisey | will do | 16:54 |
| sdake | i'd ike to talk abou this blueprint Drop root privileges to the container's application PID/GID | 16:54 |
| sdake | this is a test case of using work items to track work | 16:54 |
| sdake | (work items re things in the eblueprint tracker fyi) | 16:54 |
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| SamYaple | despite the slowdown, Kolla is #12 for most reviews so far this cycle, so dont get too down people. we are still progressing | 16:54 |
| sdake | if you haven't signed up for a peice of work - please ign up for some | 16:55 |
| sdake | SamYaple ya the two weeks before and after summit area lawys really slow | 16:55 |
| sdake | people on burnout on eithr end - then recovery- then ready to crank ;) | 16:55 |
| sdake | any blueprint others would like to discuss? | 16:56 |
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| jasonsb | logging? | 16:56 |
| SamYaple | jasonsb: i hit on that earlier | 16:56 |
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| sdake | there is no logging blueprint but there ill be sshortly | 16:56 |
| jasonsb | if i get you a video soon can we target EFK stack? | 16:56 |
| sdake | that sounds fantastic | 16:56 |
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| sdake | are we sitll going to use ssyslog per node? | 16:56 |
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| jasonsb | i was wondering that too | 16:57 |
| SamYaple | i think we need to | 16:57 |
| sdake | i would say yes | 16:57 |
| jasonsb | harm was saying fluentd works good too | 16:57 |
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| SamYaple | ew are logging over the socket | 16:57 |
| jasonsb | but i think syslog is better | 16:57 |
| sdake | unless there was a compleeling reason not to | 16:57 |
| SamYaple | then rsyslog would push to a central | 16:57 |
| SamYaple | i dont want the individual services lggging over the network | 16:57 |
| jasonsb | same tooling could be used for things which don't syslog | 16:58 |
| jasonsb | i suppose that is one advantage | 16:58 |
| jasonsb | (for fluentd) | 16:58 |
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| jasonsb | i think we are talking multiple logging bp's? | 16:58 |
| jasonsb | or roll into one? | 16:59 |
| sdake | why multiple | 16:59 |
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| jasonsb | to reduce risk of one thing slipping efecting the rest | 17:00 |
| sdake | what multiple | 17:00 |
| sdake | wrong question ;) | 17:00 |
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| SamYaple | we need one to make the logging work for all and work right (maybe reopen the old one...) | 17:00 |
| sdake | jasonsb can you put em in our roadmap eetherpad | 17:00 |
| jasonsb | it looked like there was some long tail stuff for logging | 17:00 |
| SamYaple | and one for the multinode | 17:00 |
| jasonsb | ie: getting all of the services to work just right | 17:00 |
| jasonsb | SamYaple: +1 | 17:01 |
| sdake | got it | 17:01 |
| sdake | ill add those then | 17:01 |
| sdake | I still plan to put most of the new big tent serices in l2/l3 | 17:01 |
| sdake | so we can push those out to N if needed to make our implementation completely solid for N | 17:02 |
| sdake | for M I mean | 17:02 |
| sdake | push to M, solid for M | 17:02 |
| sdake | psuh to N, solid for M | 17:02 |
| sdake | groan | 17:02 |
| sdake | and seriousy, we need to get ceilomete rdown | 17:03 |
| sdake | its almost a compute kit serice | 17:03 |
| sdake | please coolsvap get cracking :) | 17:03 |
| SamYaple | sdake: coolsvap was working on that last I heard I believe | 17:03 |
| SamYaple | the biggest problem there is HA mongodb | 17:03 |
| sdake | yes i know | 17:03 |
| SamYaple | that is not an easy thing and there is no glaera for mongodb | 17:03 |
| sdake | i'd be satisified with a single non-ha ceilometer | 17:05 |
| sdake | i realize tha is imprefet but atleaast it wold work some of the time | 17:05 |
| SamYaple | no i dont want to do that | 17:05 |
| sdake | vs none of the time | 17:05 |
| SamYaple | then we have to provide a path for migration | 17:05 |
| sdake | the power of the two words "tech preview" | 17:05 |
| SamYaple | as long as we say no migration path im cool with that | 17:06 |
| sdake | #topic open discussion | 17:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 17:06 | |
| sdake | ok folks from thee blueprint list looks like we hae a sle wof blueprints to sort out | 17:07 |
| sdake | i'll get em filed, need people to sign up for them | 17:07 |
| sdake | anyone have open discussion? | 17:07 |
| bmace | i think we wanted to bring up if folks feel strongly about having the kollacli REST service in the python-kollaclient repo during dev at least. | 17:07 |
| sdake | it shoudl be there all the time - i dont understand the Q | 17:08 |
| britthouser | I'm confused about a REST cli? | 17:08 |
| bmace | we can obviously break it out into a separate repo at some point. if there are no objections, for the sake of simplicity, it would be easier to refactor in a single repository | 17:08 |
| britthouser | still coming up to speed here...sorry. | 17:08 |
| pbourke | ideally it would be separate but can be done later | 17:09 |
| bmace | i don't believe any of the other python-Xclient repos have REST server side code in them | 17:09 |
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| bmace | that is my point sdake | 17:09 |
| pbourke | if you were going to combine it in an existing repo though the kolla one would nearly make more sense | 17:09 |
| bmace | but since a lot of the code that will be in there is in the cli right now, it is far easier to refactor into a service in a single repo, and move it out wholesale later | 17:09 |
| bmace | i think sdake already did a bunch of work to make the python-kollaclient repo | 17:10 |
| pbourke | assuming a rest api is needed at all I haven't seen reasons for it yet | 17:10 |
| nihilifer | +1 for pbouke, I'd also pick kolla repo for REST server if we don't want to make a separate repo for it for now | 17:10 |
| bmace | and not all people using kolla want or need to care about a cli | 17:10 |
| sdake | i'm good with refactoring the rest api wherever is good fot he des | 17:10 |
| pbourke | bmace: everyone voted for it so they do care | 17:10 |
| pbourke | bmace: even if they dont know it ;) | 17:11 |
| bmace | sure, so how about we do the dev in python-kollaclient and we can move the REST service into base kolla if folks want once it is done? | 17:12 |
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| SamYaple | -1 on the REST api.... point me at a reason why we need it please | 17:12 |
| SamYaple | i need convincing | 17:12 |
| pbourke | id like that conversation to happen | 17:12 |
| SamYaple | its been brought up before | 17:12 |
| bmace | so that people can add their own UI or whatever programmatic control over kolla deploys? | 17:13 |
| nihilifer | I guess for making a cli like in other bg tent project | 17:13 |
| SamYaple | ok. so what deploys that? | 17:13 |
| SamYaple | where does that run? | 17:13 |
| SamYaple | its definetely outside of our project scope | 17:13 |
| bmace | wherever they want | 17:13 |
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| sdake | i disagree about project scope | 17:13 |
| sdake | it is a deployment tooll | 17:13 |
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| sdake | therefore in scope | 17:13 |
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| SamYaple | no its a rest api | 17:14 |
| SamYaple | not a deployment tool | 17:14 |
| SamYaple | this is a UI in front of the deployment tool | 17:14 |
| sdake | to sserver deploying tooling | 17:14 |
| bmace | you don't think our deployment is complicated enough that people might not want to mess with stuff by hand? | 17:14 |
| sdake | i'd already call rest a ui | 17:14 |
| SamYaple | you wont convince me that its in our current scope at all. but do we expand the scope? maybe | 17:14 |
| sdake | alreadyhardly | 17:14 |
| SamYaple | bmace: no? its 4 lines to deploy openstack | 17:15 |
| bmace | lol | 17:15 |
| bmace | sure, if you never want to change anything | 17:15 |
| SamYaple | ok so point me at the openstack UI configuration tool for nova | 17:15 |
| SamYaple | cinder | 17:15 |
| SamYaple | neutron | 17:15 |
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| SamYaple | where is the rest api to change those configs? | 17:15 |
| sdake | fuel has it | 17:15 |
| sdake | fuel has a rest api for those iirc | 17:15 |
| SamYaple | fuel is not an openstack project | 17:15 |
| inc0 | hey, meeting time moved? | 17:16 |
| sdake | it sort of is, it just isn't a governed project | 17:16 |
| bmace | you know what people complain about with openstack, complexity to deploy. so don't point that out as a reason not to have a ui... it needs to be easier | 17:16 |
| sdake | inc0 yur late bro ;) | 17:16 |
| rhallisey | inc0, day light savings dude | 17:16 |
| inc0 | oO | 17:16 |
| inc0 | I thought it's in 15 minutes | 17:16 |
| rhallisey | welcome to america inc0 | 17:16 |
| SamYaple | bmace: we deploy openstack, what deploys the thing you are tlakign about? | 17:16 |
| inc0 | duh, sorry guys | 17:16 |
| SamYaple | bmace: does it need a backend? | 17:16 |
| britthouser | Think of the API as allowing other programs to control Kolla instead of a user. | 17:16 |
| SamYaple | bmace: what configures the inventory where it runs? | 17:17 |
| sdake | the backend is the filesystem | 17:17 |
| bmace | if people want to use it, they just run it, like a service. i expect there would be an rpm to install it on some system, just like we do in the oracle distro for the CLI right now | 17:17 |
| sdake | the softqware is run by init scripts or systemd or the like | 17:17 |
| SamYaple | are we tlaking about some UI or a rest api? | 17:17 |
| SamYaple | these are widly different things | 17:17 |
| sdake | rest api | 17:17 |
| inc0 | what would rest api do in our case? | 17:18 |
| inc0 | we don't have any running service | 17:18 |
| sdake | if someone wants to make a ui on top more power to them | 17:18 |
| SamYaple | how does that make it easier to deploy? | 17:18 |
| sdake | but i think that would be outside scope of kolla | 17:18 |
| bmace | essentially what the cli does now, breaking it out into a REST service that both the cli can use, but anyone else doing any other sort of deploy automation can use | 17:18 |
| SamYaple | ok lets have some moderation here | 17:18 |
| SamYaple | bmace: are you asking for a UI? | 17:18 |
| inc0 | bmace, that would be api of ansible or whatever | 17:18 |
| bmace | a cli is a ui.. | 17:18 |
| pbourke | we already have a ui | 17:18 |
| pbourke | bmace: +1 | 17:18 |
| SamYaple | bmace: GUI | 17:18 |
| inc0 | ncurses! | 17:18 |
| * sdake gets some salt for the popcorn | 17:19 | |
| SamYaple | UX is the new terms nowadays | 17:19 |
| bmace | i don't plan on writing a gui right now, but with a rest api in place, people could make one if they want, they could do anything, programatically | 17:19 |
| SamYaple | what does a rest interface get us right now that we dont have? | 17:19 |
| inc0 | bmace, again, we don't have running service | 17:19 |
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| SamYaple | how does that make it easier to deploy openstack? | 17:19 |
| sdake | a rest ui is a comon pattern in software development because it gets rid of magic pushbutton | 17:19 |
| inc0 | nor we plan to, maybe besides mesos | 17:19 |
| sdake | we want to get rid of magic pushbutton in our softtware | 17:19 |
| inc0 | but mesos has it's apis | 17:19 |
| SamYaple | sdake: we dont have a service! | 17:19 |
| sdake | SamYaple hwat about ansible and deploying all the things? | 17:20 |
| sdake | that is deifnately a service | 17:20 |
| SamYaple | thats not a service | 17:20 |
| SamYaple | look up the definition of service | 17:20 |
| inc0 | service is constantly running daemon | 17:20 |
| bmace | that is why i don't feel it needs to be in the core kolla repo, leave it out in another repo as an optional bit people can use, or not, with base kolla | 17:20 |
| SamYaple | inc0: +1 | 17:20 |
| bmace | just like the cli | 17:20 |
| SamYaple | bmace: im not saying im opposed to it, but i still havent heard what it adds for value | 17:20 |
| SamYaple | not to meantion the chicken/egg situtation it gets us in | 17:21 |
| sdake | it allows people to write guis for kolla | 17:21 |
| sdake | there I said what it offers | 17:21 |
| sdake | enjoy :) | 17:21 |
| bmace | it isn't that hard to start a service.. | 17:21 |
| SamYaple | sdake: great thats outside of scope | 17:21 |
| sdake | gui is outside scope | 17:21 |
| SamYaple | bmace: kolla doesnt touch the host | 17:21 |
| sdake | enabling not outside scope | 17:21 |
| bmace | an rpm can do it, an apt can do it | 17:21 |
| SamYaple | bmace: it only starts containers | 17:21 |
| SamYaple | pbourke: thgouts here? | 17:22 |
| bmace | on the deploy host, there are install dependencies, docker, ansible, a number of bits.. | 17:22 |
| pbourke | this is quite a balanced argument :) | 17:22 |
| pbourke | i completely see both sides | 17:22 |
| sdake | persoanlly id' ike to see a nice gui for koll atoo | 17:22 |
| inc0 | well, I have issue with rest api | 17:22 |
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| SamYaple | a GUI doesnt require a rest api | 17:22 |
| inc0 | for us | 17:22 |
| sdake | something that has a nice lock and shows you how long is left ;) | 17:22 |
| SamYaple | inc0: i do as well for us | 17:22 |
| pbourke | SamYaple: I was thinking that also | 17:22 |
| SamYaple | sdake: I am actully ok with a GUI.... but not a rest api | 17:22 |
| sdake | a gui requires a rest api to avoid magic pushbutton | 17:22 |
| pbourke | SamYaple: the api standardises how they interact with kolla though | 17:23 |
| SamYaple | no ansible does that | 17:23 |
| pbourke | hmm | 17:23 |
| sdake | otherwise the gui encodes business logic within it - no bueno | 17:23 |
| SamYaple | sdake: then that requires a service | 17:23 |
| pbourke | SamYaple: ansible is very flexible though | 17:23 |
| SamYaple | and then chicken and egg | 17:23 |
| rhallisey | hmm | 17:23 |
| pbourke | SamYaple: too much so | 17:23 |
| inc0 | I would hate to end up with running gevent/greenlet/django/whatever which will do nothing | 17:23 |
| inc0 | besides running one command, which would be ansible-playbook | 17:24 |
| SamYaple | why dont we table this. we have many far more important things to do | 17:24 |
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| SamYaple | if someone wnats to hammer out a spec we can all review it | 17:24 |
| sdake | the reason i tcant be tabled is the work is beginning now | 17:24 |
| nihilifer | what about just creating separate repo for REST API? you probably will not convince yourselves about whether it's good or not | 17:24 |
| SamYaple | no a rest api or gui has nothing that is holding us up | 17:24 |
| nihilifer | but it looks like some peaople or companies | 17:24 |
| inc0 | nihilifer, noone will stop that | 17:24 |
| nihilifer | just want to write JS-based GUIS | 17:25 |
| bmace | it would be in a separate repo, the python-kollaclient | 17:25 |
| SamYaple | nihilifer: not under kollas name? no one will stop. under kollas name we need a spec | 17:25 |
| inc0 | fuel has cool gui, but also database, running service and other stuff | 17:25 |
| sdake | bmace id recommend keeping in same repo for now | 17:25 |
| SamYaple | inc0: correct | 17:25 |
| inc0 | we don't have database, running service and I don't want to have it tbh, not now in any case | 17:25 |
| SamYaple | inc0: thats a huge thing | 17:25 |
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| pbourke | SamYaple: what do you have to say on sdake's pushbutton argument | 17:26 |
| bmace | i tend to agree with the others though sdake, that the REST api shouldn't be in base kolla. it is an optional thing, just like the cli, to make using kolla easier. | 17:26 |
| SamYaple | pbourke: we are the deployers of openstack. we cant be consumed like openstack | 17:26 |
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| pbourke | SamYaple: we could be though | 17:27 |
| inc0 | in fact, we're quasi-openstack really | 17:27 |
| SamYaple | pbourke: if we want to be tripleo and deploy openstack to deploy openstack, then yes we could | 17:27 |
| inc0 | or meta-openstack;) | 17:27 |
| pbourke | ha | 17:27 |
| inc0 | metastack | 17:27 |
| SamYaple | im not joking | 17:27 |
| bmace | we have seen enough confusion by people doing kolla deploys already that it definitely need something on top of it to make it easier. | 17:27 |
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| pbourke | bmace: right but that's an arg for the existing cli, not the rest api | 17:27 |
| SamYaple | bmace: you dont reduce confusion by adding complexity | 17:27 |
| inc0 | bmace, we have cli and we should work on it's usability imho | 17:28 |
| SamYaple | right | 17:28 |
| SamYaple | we _just_ agreed to work on this cli | 17:28 |
| inc0 | write good helps, make it usable | 17:28 |
| inc0 | make manpage;) | 17:28 |
| SamYaple | if its as simple as `kolla deploy` `kolla add host` then i dont see what else we need | 17:28 |
| pbourke | others could write GUIs in the same way the cli is written | 17:28 |
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| rhallisey | ya we just had a big doc change to address this | 17:28 |
| inc0 | ncurses! (I'll repeat it every now and then;)) | 17:28 |
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| sdake | xthe argument for a rest api is to encodee our bussiness logic behind a programmatic api pbourke | 17:29 |
| sdake | i do not like how the cli jamws the business logic and ci together | 17:29 |
| sdake | its magic fucking pushbutton | 17:29 |
| pbourke | true enough | 17:29 |
| sdake | 'the death of every project ive been involed in that failed | 17:29 |
| bmace | because if anyone wants to do any sort of programatic control, using expect and parsing cli output sucks | 17:29 |
| SamYaple | our time is up guys | 17:30 |
| SamYaple | lets move back to #kolla | 17:30 |
| sdake | #endmeeting | 17:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:30 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 11 17:30:10 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:30 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2015/kolla.2015-11-11-16.33.html | 17:30 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2015/kolla.2015-11-11-16.33.txt | 17:30 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2015/kolla.2015-11-11-16.33.log.html | 17:30 |
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| Jokke_ | o/ | 20:00 |
| j^2 | hi! | 20:00 |
| j^2 | tools right? | 20:00 |
| Jokke_ | Log_WG | 20:01 |
| j^2 | opps wrong room :P | 20:01 |
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| Jokke_ | rockyg: o/ | 20:01 |
| rockyg | o/ | 20:01 |
| rockyg | I guess it's time | 20:01 |
| rockyg | #startmeeting log_wg | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 11 20:02:06 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is rockyg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: log_wg)" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'log_wg' | 20:02 |
| Jokke_ | I did not kick the meeting off yet as I didn't know if anyone else was coming :) | 20:02 |
| *** markvan_ is now known as markvan | 20:02 | |
| rockyg | Agenda: Review of Summit results; Action items from Summit; Discussion | 20:03 |
| rockyg | hey, that's ok. I'm slow. Work killed my access to the outside net, so I have to use webchat :P | 20:03 |
| Jokke_ | ouch, that's handy | 20:04 |
| rockyg | #topic Review of Summit | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review of Summit (Meeting topic: log_wg)" | 20:04 | |
| rockyg | We managed to get a fair amount agreed upon. | 20:04 |
| Jokke_ | well ... | 20:05 |
| rockyg | Dynamic reconfiguration of config options for logging and other changeable options was agreed upon and is already being worked | 20:06 |
| Jokke_ | I think we agreed to swift focus | 20:06 |
| Jokke_ | yes, oh nice | 20:06 |
| rockyg | format for propagating request-id into log messages was agreed upon mostly. A spec is needed to move this forward | 20:07 |
| rockyg | Swift focus? | 20:07 |
| Jokke_ | error code discussion | 20:09 |
| rockyg | Agreed to work on getting log message levels more consistent across/within projects before pushing error codes. Need to socialize need for lots of bugs being filed | 20:10 |
| Jokke_ | yes | 20:10 |
| rockyg | Jokke_: still not understanding. Not enough coffee | 20:10 |
| Jokke_ | that was my point, we have been pushing error codes for a year and we decided to swift our focus elsewhere | 20:12 |
| rockyg | Oh! shift! twice typo'ed | 20:13 |
| rockyg | Anything else from Summit? | 20:13 |
| Jokke_ | Oh .... I think I'm the one needing coffee | 20:13 |
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| Jokke_ | I think those were the most important bits | 20:15 |
| rockyg | :D | 20:15 |
| rockyg | Ok. | 20:15 |
| rockyg | #topic Action items from summit | 20:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items from summit (Meeting topic: log_wg)" | 20:15 | |
| rockyg | #action write oslo.log spec for request-id inclusion in log messages | 20:16 |
| rockyg | #action post bug requests to operators ML and user group ML | 20:17 |
| Jokke_ | did I miss that discussion, mind to give me tl;dr of what was agreed? | 20:17 |
| Jokke_ | the request-id one | 20:17 |
| rockyg | Yup. you missed it. | 20:17 |
| rockyg | It was good. And hard. It's amazing how dense developers can be. | 20:17 |
| rockyg | So, recap: | 20:17 |
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| rockyg | #info RequestID would have three fields [original requestID] [current RequestID][next RequestID] or similar. | 20:19 |
| rockyg | #info original requestID is the id of the client call that starts the chain of events. It is constant until the chain is completed or errors out | 20:20 |
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| rockyg | #info Current RequestID is the id that is generated when the original request is has been handed off in the API transition | 20:21 |
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| Jokke_ | so how do we provide that? are we going to finally agree that the service accepts request-id as part of the query? | 20:21 |
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| rockyg | #info Next RequestID is the requestID for the handoff to the next API interaction | 20:22 |
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| rockyg | So, the APIs should generate the ID as the handoff occurs. If need be, the list might endup [orig][last][current]. Not sure, but still a linke list | 20:23 |
| rockyg | The requestID spec implementation will make the local requestID generation happen. | 20:23 |
| Jokke_ | that's not problem, that's there already | 20:24 |
| Jokke_ | the original one interests me | 20:24 |
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| rockyg | requestID spec is also implementing the generation in the clients | 20:24 |
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| Jokke_ | k | 20:25 |
| rockyg | The guys who wrote the spec were there. They liked getting these into the log messages. The hard part will be getting the log message generated at handoffs, but since the spec writers are the implementers, they can add the log message calls, too. | 20:26 |
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| rockyg | I think we are going to suggest using the syslog keyed list field for this. | 20:27 |
| Jokke_ | those logs are going to be horrible to read for humans | 20:27 |
| Jokke_ | 3 UUIDs on every line :( | 20:28 |
| rockyg | Nah. Only three extra ids. What we should do is get the requestID size limited to something reasonable. | 20:28 |
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| Jokke_ | that's my point. Req id is UUID (current implementation) | 20:29 |
| rockyg | Uh, requestID can be a sized UUID, so it could be UUID4 or UUID8 or UUID16 rather than 32. But I think that's a separate spec. | 20:29 |
| rockyg | Or maybe a mod to the requestID spec. | 20:30 |
| rockyg | What we should do is make the size configurable, but consistent. Set it once for the whole cloud. | 20:31 |
| Jokke_ | that would be gr8 | 20:31 |
| rockyg | Which would mean that we'd need to make sure the uuid generator is part of an oslo lib. | 20:31 |
| rockyg | And that all generation is done by the lib. | 20:32 |
| rockyg | I think we are working through the spec issues :-) | 20:32 |
| Jokke_ | and each service advices their clients which size req-id to generate | 20:32 |
| rockyg | I bet the ops would love to have a configurable UUID size | 20:33 |
| rockyg | Small clouds wouldn't need as big of uuids as large clouds. And, we could provide guidance on how to size in the admin docs | 20:33 |
| Jokke_ | back in 3 | 20:34 |
| rockyg | np | 20:34 |
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| rockyg | I took this chance to get some coffee ;-) | 20:36 |
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| Jokke_ | sorry bout that | 20:37 |
| rockyg | not a problem. I got coffee | 20:38 |
| Jokke_ | :) | 20:38 |
| rockyg | ok. so, have we beaten this horse enough? | 20:38 |
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| Jokke_ | yeah, I thik it's ready for glue factory | 20:39 |
| rockyg | I won't be able to get to start writing the spec until next week at the earliest. I have lots of ML catch up to do and have to finish off some expense reports and summit summaries | 20:40 |
| rockyg | Good one! | 20:40 |
| rockyg | #action socialize the need for bugs to get the log message levels consistent | 20:41 |
| rockyg | we could do this a number of ways. | 20:41 |
| rockyg | I'm wondering if we should try for getting a good number of bugs together, then analyze those to make the guidelines better | 20:42 |
| Jokke_ | that wouldn't hurt | 20:42 |
| rockyg | I think the ops know better what they need/want than the devs do. | 20:43 |
| rockyg | I wonder if we can get a bugs sprint with the ops, just taking an hour or two to file bugs on messages | 20:43 |
| Jokke_ | I'd like to get started with having folks filing those their filter lists as bugs | 20:44 |
| rockyg | Yup. and it might be easiest to schedule a time when a bunch of them could do it together. Also might reduce duplication that way. | 20:46 |
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| rockyg | Maybe we should consider a weekly sprint - focus on one project per week? If we need more than that as a start, we could schedule a second session | 20:46 |
| Jokke_ | that could be | 20:46 |
| rockyg | I think I could get some Rackspace and som GoDaddy participation on this. Maybe more. | 20:47 |
| rockyg | I think we may have a strategy. | 20:48 |
| Jokke_ | good! | 20:48 |
| rockyg | #topic open discussion | 20:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: log_wg)" | 20:49 | |
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| rockyg | What I'd love to see also is a bug against every stackdump that happens when running. Every one should be eliminated and replaced by an error log message | 20:50 |
| rockyg | But maybe we should save that for the error codes timeframe. Then, each new log instance would get that code at the same time. | 20:51 |
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| Jokke_ | that could be | 20:51 |
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| rockyg | Well, let's see what we can make happen this cycle. Changing log levels for messages should be low hanging fruit. And with more projects actually scheduling bug triage time, this stuff could get done. | 20:53 |
| Jokke_ | yeah, hopefully we get the ops activated | 20:54 |
| rockyg | yup. | 20:55 |
| Jokke_ | anything else? | 20:55 |
| rockyg | So, how about we call this early? | 20:55 |
| Jokke_ | ++ | 20:55 |
| rockyg | #endmeeting | 20:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:55 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 11 20:55:45 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:55 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/log_wg/2015/log_wg.2015-11-11-20.02.html | 20:55 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/log_wg/2015/log_wg.2015-11-11-20.02.txt | 20:55 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/log_wg/2015/log_wg.2015-11-11-20.02.log.html | 20:55 |
| rockyg | Yay! | 20:55 |
| rockyg | Thanbks! | 20:56 |
| Jokke_ | cheers | 20:56 |
| Jokke_ | next week same place same time | 20:56 |
| rockyg | ++ | 20:57 |
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