Wednesday, 2015-08-12

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-openstackstatus- NOTICE: Zuul was restarted due to an error; events (such as approvals or new patchsets) since 23:01 UTC have been lost and affected changes will need to be rechecked00:05
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raginbajin#startmeeting operators_ops_tools_monitoring14:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Aug 12 14:00:10 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is raginbajin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: operators_ops_tools_monitoring)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'operators_ops_tools_monitoring'14:00
raginbajin#topic Outstanding Issues14:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Outstanding Issues (Meeting topic: operators_ops_tools_monitoring)"14:00
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raginbajinso not much to discuss as there wasn't anyone else other than me here last week.14:00
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raginbajinI think we'll have more participation after the Mid-cycle meetup next week.14:01
raginbajinThen we'll have action items and hopefully things to work on14:01
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raginbajinI'll wait 15 minutes and if nothing, then I'll close down the meeting.14:02
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raginbajin#endmeeting14:15
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:15
openstackMeeting ended Wed Aug 12 14:15:36 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:15
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/operators_ops_tools_monitoring/2015/operators_ops_tools_monitoring.2015-08-12-14.00.html14:15
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/operators_ops_tools_monitoring/2015/operators_ops_tools_monitoring.2015-08-12-14.00.txt14:15
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/operators_ops_tools_monitoring/2015/operators_ops_tools_monitoring.2015-08-12-14.00.log.html14:15
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eglute#startmeeting defcore14:59
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openstackMeeting started Wed Aug 12 14:59:43 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is eglute. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:59
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:59
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: defcore)"14:59
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'defcore'14:59
markvoelkero/15:00
gemao/15:00
egluteHello everyone, wave \o o/ if you are here for defcore meeting15:00
hogepodgeo/15:00
egluteEtherpad #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreFlag.1015:00
eglute#topic agenda15:01
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egluteplease take a look at the agenda and add/update as needed15:01
catherine_o/15:02
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eglute#topic midcycle recap15:03
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eglutethank you everyone for coming to the midycle in Austin and enjoying the nice TX summer15:03
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eglutehogepodge and Rob wrote a couple blog posts recaping things accomplished at the midcycle15:04
eglute#link http://superuser.openstack.org/articles/openstack-continues-to-strenghten-its-commitment-to-interoperability15:04
eglute#link http://robhirschfeld.com/2015/08/11/defcore-update-slowly-taming-the-interop-hydra/15:04
eglutei think we were very productive during midcycle, and settled a lot of issues.15:05
eglutei wont go over everything here, but let me know if you have questions15:05
egluteif not, we will move to the next item15:05
auld0/15:05
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galstromo/15:06
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hogepodgeI added a followup from a meeting working item at the end of the agenda.15:06
eglutethank you hogepodge, so it15:06
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eglutesaw it15:06
* eglute cannot spell today15:07
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eglute#topic ID new capabilities15:07
*** openstack changes topic to "ID new capabilities (Meeting topic: defcore)"15:07
egluteso we have 76 days till Tokyo, and 15 days before we need to have new capabilities identified15:08
markvoelkereglute: I've added the names of folks who volunteered to be point on IDing new capabilities to the etherpad.15:09
eglutemarkvoelker thanks- how is that going15:09
hogepodgeI've fallen down on following through with that. It's on my todo list for the next few days.15:09
hogepodgeBefore the ops mid-cycle15:09
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eglutei am ok using this time to talk about capabilities since it is the most important item on the agenda15:10
markvoelkerFor my part I'll have netowrking mostly hammered out ~middle of next week and should have made a dent in Nova by week's end.15:10
hogepodge(except for keystone which is small)15:10
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markvoelkerNova should be easier since it already has some capabilties.15:10
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catherine_for the new capabilities for Tokyo, do we mean for Network or for all other project as well ..15:10
markvoelkercatherine_: with each Guideline we evaluate potential new Capabilities from all of OpenStack.  If there are good candidates, we score them.15:11
catherine_since we have decided at the midcycle that the next project to add to core is Neutron ...15:11
catherine_ic ..15:12
markvoelkercateherine_: So the next Guideline could contain more new stuff than Neutron capabilties, yes.  If good candidates are ID'd by the point persons listed in the etherpad and they score high enough.15:12
hogepodgeneutron is getting special consideration, but we could add glance capabilities if they enhance compute in some way15:12
eglutehogepodge have seen people ask for new capabilities?15:13
catherine_ok in that case I will work on a patch for Heat ...15:13
eglutealso, what are you seeing in this round? are people getting ready for the summit yet, as far as you can tell?15:13
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eglutecatherine_ I don't think Heat would be considered for DefCore, at least not now15:14
markvoelkereglute: I think it's worth looking into at least.  Based on user survey results it's almost as widely deployed in prod as Swift now.15:14
hogepodgeeglute: no, I did see the the current glance tests we have specifically target v2 by name, which is worrisome given the current state of the world (many v1 deployments and what appears to be an incomplete implementation of v2)15:14
markvoelkereglute: http://a4.res.cloudinary.com/hqq9ey1mh/image/upload/c_limit,w_793/v1431734254/ndz1dxvsq12unsmwhjo8.jpg15:14
markvoelkerIt may not score high enough, but at least we'll know where it stands.15:15
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eglutemarkvoelker you are right! that is interesting. where is that info coming from?15:15
markvoelkereglute: http://superuser.openstack.org/articles/openstack-users-share-how-their-deployments-stack-up15:16
markvoelkerE.g. the user survey.15:16
eglutemarkvoelker thanks!15:16
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eglutehogepodge sounds like we need to re-evaluate glance?15:16
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hogepodgeeglute: it's weirdly classified. Right now we only run against the proxy, but it was reclassified as v2 only.15:17
hogepodge(nova proxy)15:17
hogepodgeeglute: had I been more careful about evaluating that reclassification I would have -1'ed it, but I didn't15:17
egluteok, do we need to take another look at glance then15:18
hogepodgeeglute: but all of that is based on nova proxy, which in practice uses v1 in the backend and can use v2 or v1 in the front end15:18
gemasomeone did ask on our tailgaters meeting about glance and being able to use it without admin15:18
markvoelkereglute: I don't see why we wouldn't at least examine it.  It's fairly widely deployed so it seems reasonable that there are capabilties there that app developers might want to depend on for interoperability.15:19
gemaI can confirm I can list images in v1 and v2 of glance's api without admin15:19
gema(in case it helps)15:19
eglutethanks gema15:19
gemanp15:19
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markvoelkerI'm sort of punting to the point people on the etherpad to do that eval and if they think there's reasonable candidates, propose scores for them so we can discuss via gerrit.15:19
eglutemarkvoelker +115:19
hogepodgemarkvoelker: +115:19
eglutehogepodge since you have glance, can you re-evaluate and propose new?15:20
hogepodgeyes15:21
eglutethanks15:21
markvoelkerOh, and speaking of that: as of right now the only scoring proposal we have is the WIP networking one, so I haven't started the ball rolling on scoring meetings yet....15:21
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eglutemarkvoelker that's ok! also, we could use this time slot as well15:21
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markvoelkerONce I see those come in I'm happy to chair a weekly meeting or scoring discussions per earlier discussion, just didn't want to call meetings with nothing to discuss yet. =)15:22
eglutemarkvoelker works for me!15:22
markvoelker#info Scoring proposals need to be submitted by Aug. 27 per 2015A timelines15:22
markvoelker#info Scoring itself should be finished by Sep 27.15:23
eglutemarkvoelker i talking scoring needs to be done by Sept. 27?15:23
markvoelkereglute: correct.  By Aug 27 we just need the proposals submitted to Gerrit.  Then we've basically got a month to review them.15:23
* eglute thanks markvoelker 15:24
markvoelkerSo, also on the topic of scoring....15:24
markvoelkerAt the midcycle when we adopted the new scoring format, folks asked for a script to calculate the total scores for each Capability15:25
egluteso designated sections fall under scoring, correct? we dont have specific timelines for defining those15:25
markvoelkerAnd some folks asked for it to produce a CSV file as well15:25
markvoelkerI posted a script that does that here, which could use some reviews: https://review.openstack.org/21067415:25
eglutethanks markvoelker15:25
markvoelker#link https://review.openstack.org/210674 Scoring script15:26
eglute#action everyone review scoring script #link https://review.openstack.org/21067415:26
eglute#topic scoring15:26
*** openstack changes topic to "scoring (Meeting topic: defcore)"15:26
markvoelkereglute: getting back to your question on designated sections: I had sort of envisioned that being part of the capabilties scoring15:27
markvoelkerSo basically....15:27
eglutethere is also a scoring format for review, everyone please take a look at it: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/210080/15:27
markvoelkerWhen we find that we've scored something high enough to add it to a Guideline, the patch to .next.json would also include additions to the designated sections if the new capabilities aren't covered already15:28
eglute+1, works for me15:28
eglutei think we need scoring section in our hacking file15:28
markvoelkereglute: Sure.  I can work that up once we actually approve the scoring script.15:29
eglute#action  markvoelker propose patch to hacking file after scoring script and format approved15:29
egluteany other comments/questions regarding scoring?15:30
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markvoelkereglute: just one trivial one =)15:30
eglutedo tell!15:30
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markvoelkerFolks may notice the scoring script has a -1 from jenkins on it at the moment.  Apparently the gate is currently having issues, so I'll mind rechecks for it.15:31
markvoelkerThe script itself is fine, so don't let that stop you from reviewing it.15:31
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eglutecool, i was wondering about that15:32
markvoelkereglute: if you look at the console log for the failure, jenkins is basically not finding it's venv.  Nothing to do with the change itself.15:32
eglutepoor jenkins :)15:33
eglutetalking of patches: everyone please take a look at this, i would like to merge this after Jenkins starts behaving again: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/210686/15:33
eglute#topic require vendors to submit configuration15:34
*** openstack changes topic to "require vendors to submit configuration (Meeting topic: defcore)"15:34
eglute#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/207209/15:34
eglutemarkvoelker has made comments on the patch15:34
eglutewould like to hear people's feedback on the subject15:35
eglutemarkvoelker, can you summarize?15:35
markvoelkereglute: sure.  So, I tried to capture some of the objections that we talked through at the midcycle15:35
markvoelkerBasically I'm not convinced that the data we're collecting is actually useful for the objective we're trying to meet15:35
gemayeah, I was wondering what's the objective15:36
markvoelkerThe patch says the objective is:15:36
eglutehogepodge can you speak to that15:36
markvoelker"The objective is for users to understand the requirements for deployable products and to know the resources available on hosted products."15:36
hogepodgeFrom an interop perspective the backing technologies are important to know.15:36
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hogepodgeIt varies based on what the product is15:37
markvoelkerBut what we actually collect is information about one very specific configuration that was used to run one set of tests which require no scale or redundancy15:37
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markvoelkerSo that's not really informative at all.  Worst case, it's actually misleading.15:37
catherineD|2We also discussed during midcycle that some of those info maybe confidential ...15:37
hogepodgeWe use the information differently from distributions (where the user can reconfigure to be non-interop) and from private/public clouds.15:38
gemavendors are public clouds or are they also integrators of openstack?15:38
hogepodgeRight now you need to know if a vendor is running kvm or xen, because that's a interoperability decision.15:38
hogepodgeFor example.15:38
markvoelkergema: this covers anyone that wants to call themselves an "OpenStack Powered" product15:38
gemamarkvoelker: ok15:39
hogepodgeThe policy is problematic because we have a wide use case to cover with it. The Foundation definitely wants that information though.15:39
gemamarkvoelker: but integrators deploy different clouds for different usecases (in terms of configuration)15:39
markvoelkerhogepodge: but if I'm Red Hat or Ubuntu or Mirantis, I can let you configure any of those things.  THe fact that I happened to run my defcore tests on KVM doesn't tell you that.15:39
gemaso I am not sure how we would go about submitting that data unless the details are generic such as kvm/xen15:39
markvoelkerIf you want information about what's supported, the vendor's docs are probably a much better place to find it.15:39
markvoelkerAs opposed to looking at just one small deployment15:40
gemayep, I can speak for ubuntu on this subject :D15:40
gemamarkvoelker: +115:40
hogepodgeIt tells you how a vendor got to interop, and acts as guidance. An end user can do whatever they want.15:40
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markvoelkerhogepodge: but it only tells you *one* configuration that was used to meet the Guideline.  It may be completely non production worthy, and there may be many other ways to get there.15:41
hogepodgeWe've been asked if using a OpenStack Powered Platform distribution in new product immediately qualifies that product for the mark. The answer is a strong "no" for the reasons you mentioned."15:41
markvoelkerI would really hate for this to turn into "what you tested DefCore on is your default reference architecture" because that really does an injustice to all the other ways to configure a great cloud15:41
hogepodgemarkvoelker: It tells you that you can get to interoperability.15:42
gemahogepodge: what does that mean?15:42
eglutehogepodge how about different configurable deploys that would be prod worthy and pass defcore? sounds to me like vendors would want to share all their configs then as passing defcore15:42
markvoelkerhogepodge: passing the tests tells you that. =)15:42
catherineD|2strickly speaking we would achieve ultimate interops if we do not have to really care about the implementation15:42
hogepodgeas a cloud deployer, I hope I would be testing my cloud15:42
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gemahogepodge: you may be testing many clouds , in fact you do, as a cloud deployer15:43
hogepodgeI don't think there's anything onerous about asking "how did you get to these results".15:43
eglutewell, we deploy multiple diff configs for private cloud.15:43
markvoelkereglute: I'd argue that they can't necessarily do that in the results of a single test run.  E.g. if I'm Ubuntu there are probably dozens of ways to get a production-grade interoperable cloud.15:43
eglutemarkvoelker i agree,15:43
markvoelkereglute: if they want to tell people about what they recommend, they probably publish reference architectures15:43
markvoelkereglute: which may be usecase-specific15:43
egluteright, i know we have multiple ref architectures15:44
catherineD|2markvoelker: I feel like we are discussing about reference configuration ...15:44
catherineD|2reference architecture and configuration ...15:44
markvoelkercatherineD|2: that's my fear15:44
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eglutei agree here...15:45
hogepodgemarkvoelker: for distributions a deployer will have an architecture in mind.15:45
catherineD|2hogepodge: that would be their default deployment ...15:45
eglutehogepodge for a single distribution there can be multiple architectures15:45
markvoelkerhogepodge: as a deployer I would absolutely not want to get that from one test run that features no scale testing and was usecase-agnostic.15:46
hogepodgemarkvoelker: but say RedHat says "these results are from a basic packstack deployment" and SuSE says "this is a four node HA test deplyment", that actually says a lot, even though you could do more or less with either15:46
hogepodgeSo you're arguing that because the configuration may be weak we should just ignore that and not ask anything about it? We're shining daylight into the testing process.15:47
eglutewell, not just week15:47
gemahogepodge: I think I see your point, we are doing some other compliance testing and we have to certify certain drivers and we are forced to run the tests on the biggest machine that this certification is going to be valid for15:47
gemahogepodge: or else the run doesn't mean anything and you cannot really tell if the cloud is "compliant"15:47
markvoelkerI'm arguing that if the goal is to allow "users to understand the requirements" this completely fails at it.15:47
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markvoelkerOr put another way: the stated goal here isn't to shine daylight into the testing process, according to the patch. =)15:48
eglutemarkvoelker i agree15:48
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markvoelkerTo be clear: I'm not opposed to us collecting info on principal.  I just don't think we're accomplishing the stated intent.15:49
hogepodgethen we can update the patch to have better wording, but I feel strongly that vendors need to say something about their test environment that gives us an indication of what they're actually running and what users can expect15:49
egluteshould we start with optional reporting of this things?15:49
hogepodgeoptional means not doing it15:50
gemahogepodge: I can deploy a test cloud with a reference architecture for us and run the tests and that cloud will never be used by a customer and a production cloud based on that architecture will likely be much more powerful/reliable than my test cloud15:50
catherineD|2hogepodge: for a public vendor they maynot want to disclose exact info ...15:50
hogepodgeHow many vendors ran the advisory tests? Two come to mind immediately, maybe three.15:50
eglutehogepodge you have the visibility into who runs the advisory tests15:51
hogepodgecatherineD|2: understandable, and I think we try to account for that15:51
markvoelkerhogepodge: to be fair, the instructions we gave them showed how to run just the required tests15:51
markvoelkerE.g. https://github.com/openstack/defcore/blob/master/2015.04/procedure.rst15:52
hogepodgemarkvoelker: no, I mean people who were runnning defcore tests before they were required15:52
hogepodgebefore 2015.0315:52
hogepodgemarkvoelker: so what do you want to see on that patch?15:52
markvoelkerhogepodge: given the stated intent of the patch, I don't think a single refstack run is a good way to accomplish it.  I'm not sure what a better way is--perhaps a place in the Marketplace to show reference architectures or something.15:54
markvoelker(and their corresponding test results)15:54
eglute+115:54
hogepodgemarkvoelker: we want to include deployment information in the marketplace, requirements and backing technologies that do make a difference.15:55
markvoelkerhogepodge: That sounds like a thing that would be very useful15:55
hogepodgeSo midonet vs ovs may not make a difference, but floating vs assigned ips may for example15:55
galstromhogepodge: is this not more of a function of the type of information you want reported not being discoverable via the APIs?15:55
hogepodgekvm vs xen vs vmware definitely makes a difference15:55
catherineD|2hogepodge: I agree on that one ..15:56
hogepodgegalstrom: the completely discoverable cloud is the platonic ideal we're reaching for :-D15:57
egluteok so sounds like we need more discussion on this and another patch15:57
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galstromhogepodge: i agree.. but I dont think you are going to get vendors to optionally report this type of data15:57
hogepodgeYes, we can take the discussion to the patch and we can propose a rewording of the goals and implementation.15:58
catherineD|2I think the problem area is D505, D506 and D50815:58
eglutehogepodge markvoelker how about a ML discussion on this?15:58
hogepodgesure15:58
egluteor a new patch and then discussion :)15:58
hogepodgeWe have two minutes.15:58
eglute115:58
catherineD|2eglute: +1 on ML discussion ...15:58
markvoelkersure, either is fine15:58
eglutethis way, we can get more feedback from others not in this meeting15:58
eglutewe are almost at time, any last words?15:59
hogepodgeIn the last 60 seconds, take a look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/164865/15:59
auldML?15:59
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eglute#action markvoelker hogepodge work on new patch for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/207209/ and start ML15:59
hogepodgetl;dr, the functional tests from swift require administrator access15:59
catherineD|2RefStack is now under Infra namespace .... next step is actually move the code ...15:59
galstromauld: Mailing List15:59
notmynamehogepodge: I need to respond to that. what do you mean by "admin" access?15:59
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hogepodgenotmyname: privileged account16:00
eglutehogepodge i think we will need to postpone that till next meeting, as i think it will need more discussion16:00
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notmynamehogepodge: I'll check, but I don't think that's true16:00
eglute#action everyone review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/164865/ before next meeting and comment on patch16:00
auld:)thanks16:00
eglutewe are at time, thank you everyone!16:00
galstromauld: np16:00
hogepodgenotmyname: I need to check again too.16:00
eglute#endmeeting16:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:01
openstackMeeting ended Wed Aug 12 16:01:05 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/defcore/2015/defcore.2015-08-12-14.59.html16:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/defcore/2015/defcore.2015-08-12-14.59.txt16:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/defcore/2015/defcore.2015-08-12-14.59.log.html16:01
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Nikolay_Sthi20:06
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Rockyghi?20:43
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sdake#startmeeting kolla22:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Aug 12 22:00:42 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sdake. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.22:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.22:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: kolla)"22:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'kolla'22:00
sdake#topic rollcall22:00
*** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: kolla)"22:00
rhalliseyhi22:00
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mfalatico/22:01
sdakeo/ :)22:01
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rhalliseyquiet O.o22:02
jpeelerhey22:02
rhalliseyeveryone must be asleep22:02
sdakeya this time slot isn't well attended22:02
sdakeit may make sense to move everything to the early slot22:02
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* jpeeler would be okay with that22:02
sdakeok well we dont really have a qurom22:03
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sdakei'm going to give it a few more minutes and the npossibly cancel the irc meeting22:03
rhalliseyI don't remember who can't make 1600 UTC22:03
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sdakeeurope, sam22:03
sdakewhich are all the contributors besides those in the channel no w:)22:04
mfalaticElections are won with less...22:04
sdakelol;)22:04
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mfalaticBut yes, I agree about the earlier timeframe.22:05
mfalatic:-D22:05
sdakeok well i'll cancel the meeting22:05
sdakethanks for coming folks22:05
sdakewe can catch up in #kolla22:05
mfalatico722:05
rhalliseykk22:05
rhalliseylike the good old days sdake22:05
sdakeyes except its not  hte good old days22:05
rhalliseythe dark ages22:05
sdakethe teamstats tool shows we have 14 active reveiwers and 14 active contributors22:05
sdake#endmeeting22:06
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"22:06
openstackMeeting ended Wed Aug 12 22:06:06 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)22:06
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2015/kolla.2015-08-12-22.00.html22:06
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2015/kolla.2015-08-12-22.00.txt22:06
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2015/kolla.2015-08-12-22.00.log.html22:06
rhalliseythanks!22:06
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