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| krtaylor | anyone here for third party CI working group meeting? | 04:10 |
|---|---|---|
| krtaylor | #startmeeting third-party | 04:12 |
| krtaylor | #startmeeting third-party | 04:13 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jun 3 04:13:17 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krtaylor. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 04:13 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 04:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 04:13 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 04:13 |
| krtaylor | that time it worked | 04:13 |
| krtaylor | anyone here for third party CI working group meeting? | 04:13 |
| krtaylor | these 0400 UTC meetings are generally not well attended | 04:14 |
| krtaylor | but I'll hang out here for a while | 04:14 |
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| krtaylor | well, so with equipment failure, starting late, and no attendance, I guess I'll call this one done | 04:19 |
| krtaylor | anyone have anything? | 04:19 |
| krtaylor | until next time then | 04:21 |
| krtaylor | #endmeeting | 04:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "(Meeting topic: sc)" | 04:21 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jun 3 04:21:11 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 04:21 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-06-03-04.13.html | 04:21 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-06-03-04.13.txt | 04:21 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-06-03-04.13.log.html | 04:21 |
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| purp | Morning, Carol. | 15:00 |
| markvoelker | ohai DefCores | 15:01 |
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| barrett | Good morning | 15:01 |
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| zehicle_IRL | #startmeeting DefCore | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jun 3 15:01:26 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is zehicle_IRL. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: DefCore)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'defcore' | 15:01 |
| hogepodge | o/ | 15:01 |
| zehicle_IRL | #topic Flag.2 | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Flag.2 (Meeting topic: DefCore)" | 15:01 | |
| zehicle_IRL | o/ | 15:01 |
| markvoelker | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreFlag.2 | 15:01 |
| zehicle_IRL | I've been building an agenda there | 15:02 |
| markvoelker | First item on the agenda: the agenda. I like it. =) | 15:02 |
| kbaikov | Hello | 15:03 |
| zehicle_IRL | always first for me - make sure we have all the topics | 15:03 |
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| markvoelker | zehicle_IRL: looks good to me. Lots to do today. | 15:04 |
| zehicle_IRL | top of the list, we made some changes to meeting format and structure [trial mode for this month] | 15:04 |
| zehicle_IRL | 1) meetings on IRC | 15:04 |
| zehicle_IRL | 2) new times w/ alternating schedule | 15:04 |
| markvoelker | 3) Combined capabilities and process meetings into one meeting | 15:05 |
| zehicle_IRL | The IRC should serve as the official attendee list - please make sure you o/ if you are here | 15:05 |
| zehicle_IRL | questions about the governance change? | 15:06 |
| kbaikov | what is o/ ? | 15:06 |
| purp | o/ | 15:06 |
| zehicle_IRL | kbaikov, raising hand (present) | 15:07 |
| kbaikov | o/ | 15:07 |
| frayedknot | o/ | 15:07 |
| eglute | o/ | 15:07 |
| zehicle_IRL | #topic Flag.2 Summit Review | 15:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Flag.2 Summit Review (Meeting topic: DefCore)" | 15:08 | |
| purp | From #openstack-defcore, courtesy @markvoelker, the Meetbot quick reference guide: http://meetbot.debian.net/Manual.html#user-reference | 15:08 |
| zehicle_IRL | #chair eglute | 15:08 |
| openstack | Current chairs: eglute zehicle_IRL | 15:08 |
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| zehicle_IRL | #chair hogepodge | 15:08 |
| openstack | Current chairs: eglute hogepodge zehicle_IRL | 15:08 |
| zehicle_IRL | discussion or comments from the Summit? | 15:09 |
| hogepodge | Lots of positive feedback all around. | 15:09 |
| zehicle_IRL | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreFlag.1 | 15:09 |
| eglute | i think it was great, would like to see more working sessions next time | 15:09 |
| zehicle_IRL | I was very happy w. the panel. I think we had a lot of diverse perspectives. | 15:09 |
| * zehicle_IRL gives HIGH FIVES to everyone for level of attention and results around DefCore | 15:10 | |
| markvoelker | I think we've done everything on the todo list, except set a midcycle | 15:10 |
| eglute | agreed! | 15:10 |
| markvoelker | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreFlag.1 | 15:10 |
| markvoelker | ^^ etherpad from Vancouver with to-do list at the bottom | 15:10 |
| purp | +1 working sessions, +10 face-to-face for progress and brainstorming | 15:10 |
| zehicle_IRL | we ready to do that now or wait a bit? | 15:11 |
| eglute | set midcycle? yes lets do it | 15:11 |
| hogepodge | Can we think about matching up the midcycle with openstack-qa? | 15:11 |
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| zehicle_IRL | I think we could setup a poll for the week & location | 15:11 |
| eglute | hogepodge when openstack-qa | 15:11 |
| zehicle_IRL | hogepodge, +1 | 15:11 |
| hogepodge | That way we can work in tandem and get immediate help if needed. | 15:11 |
| markvoelker | hodgepoge: When is the qa meetup? | 15:11 |
| hogepodge | They haven't set it yet, which is the problem. :-/ | 15:11 |
| markvoelker | (and where) | 15:11 |
| zehicle_IRL | if it's not too late. I think that we need to meet sooner to get some of the work kicked off | 15:11 |
| hogepodge | mtreinish might know | 15:11 |
| zehicle_IRL | let's start with how long... 1 or 2 days? | 15:12 |
| eglute | do you think we need 2 days? | 15:12 |
| zehicle_IRL | we needed it last cycle. | 15:12 |
| zehicle_IRL | what's the agenda? | 15:12 |
| markvoelker | We filled up the last one pretty easily and deferred a lot to parking lot. I think we need 2 days. | 15:13 |
| hogepodge | I prefer 2 days. 1 to figure out what we need to do, the other to hammer out work ftf. | 15:13 |
| eglute | ok, +1 on 2 days | 15:13 |
| zehicle_IRL | we've got to deal with: flag process, networking, non-tempest tests | 15:13 |
| zehicle_IRL | and also the mechanics of scoring new capabilities | 15:13 |
| eglute | ok, 2 days then. where? | 15:13 |
| Will__ | Can we propose a week and ask QA if they will match our week? | 15:14 |
| zehicle_IRL | assuming we are NOT changing the capabilities list at this time | 15:14 |
| zehicle_IRL | are we expecting to have a lot of new capabilities to score? | 15:15 |
| * zehicle_IRL hopes that we do | 15:15 | |
| zehicle_IRL | eglute, assuming ATX, SATX or SJC | 15:15 |
| markvoelker | #link https://github.com/openstack/defcore/blob/master/process/ProcessCycles.rst#flag-cycle-spring---summer-2015 Flag cycle objectives | 15:15 |
| hogepodge | zehicle_IRL: not sure about capabilities, but I want to start adding tests (see strategic section later in agenda) | 15:15 |
| zehicle_IRL | depending on timing, could look at OSCON (was not planning it this year) | 15:16 |
| zehicle_IRL | hogepodge, if you add tests then doesn't that mean more capabilities? | 15:16 |
| hogepodge | zehicle_IRL: or replacing tests in existing capabilities | 15:16 |
| markvoelker | eglute: zehicle_IRL: VMware has hosted midcycles at our Palo Alto campus in the past, I'd be happy to investigate whether we have the capacity to host DefCore this time around. | 15:16 |
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| Shamail | hi. :x | 15:17 |
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| zehicle_IRL | markvoelker, that's a good option. last time we did it at the foundation office and got the benefit of Staff input | 15:17 |
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| zehicle_IRL | there's a part of me that thinks we'll want them involved to get vendor feedback about flagging | 15:17 |
| barrett | I can check about hosting at the Intel location in Santa Clara if folks are interested too. | 15:17 |
| eglute | thank you markvoelker i can find out the same about hosting at one of the Rackspace offices | 15:18 |
| eglute | how many people would we expect in person? | 15:18 |
| Shamail | What is the proposed date? | 15:18 |
| purp | Depends on dates. =\ | 15:18 |
| markvoelker | #action: eglute, markvoelker, barrett, et al to check into potential hosting for midcycle meetup with their corporate overlords | 15:19 |
| purp | I'm out of the US mid-July through mid-August, so can't then. Otherwise, won't miss. | 15:19 |
| zehicle_IRL | let's try this... +1 if you'd attend in person,+2 if you'd travel to attend | 15:19 |
| purp | Unless y'all want to come to the lovely new HP building in Galway. Happy to host there. =D | 15:19 |
| purp | +2 | 15:19 |
| markvoelker | +2 | 15:19 |
| zehicle_IRL | +2 | 15:19 |
| eglute | +2 | 15:20 |
| Shamail | +2 (but borderline) | 15:20 |
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| zehicle_IRL | one benefit of SJC is that I suspect we'll have people able to travel there to attend | 15:20 |
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| barrett | +2 | 15:21 |
| zehicle_IRL | I love ATX and SATX but they are not as much tech "I'll do business there anyway" destinations | 15:21 |
| Shamail | Good point zehicle_IRL, it's much easier to justify SJC | 15:21 |
| Will__ | +2 also borderline | 15:21 |
| markvoelker | So, suggestion: we said we wanted to do this early-ish in the cycle.... | 15:21 |
| hogepodge | openstack-qa was talking NY again, but that's the last I heard. | 15:21 |
| markvoelker | How about those inquiring about venues look to see what's available in mid-late July and report back? That way we can choose a date when we know we can get a venue. | 15:21 |
| zehicle_IRL | NY is ok for me too. I'm concerned that we need to be early in the cycle | 15:22 |
| markvoelker | #action hogepodge to check with mtreinish about QA dates/places and whether it's possible to joint-host | 15:22 |
| eglute | so how early is early | 15:22 |
| zehicle_IRL | mid-late July will bump into OSCON if anyone has a conflict | 15:22 |
| markvoelker | eglute: per https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreFlag.1 within 6 weeks (ish) | 15:22 |
| barrett | The week of Jly 20th is OSCON in Portland. Are any people planning to come to that? If so, Intel could host at our facilities in Portland. | 15:23 |
| hogepodge | zehicle_IRL: I have a firm OSCON committment. | 15:23 |
| zehicle_IRL | I'm not planning on OSCON right now | 15:23 |
| eglute | i was not planning on OSCON this year | 15:23 |
| zehicle_IRL | just calling it out as a travel block | 15:23 |
| purp | markvoelker hogepodge: already reaching out to mtreinish about QA midcycle. | 15:23 |
| markvoelker | purp: thanks | 15:23 |
| barrett | Another date to keep in mind, there's a Board meeting in Austin on 7/28 | 15:23 |
| hogepodge | Yeah, we're sponsoring part of it and are also using it as our semi-annual offsite. | 15:24 |
| hogepodge | whatever offsite means for a distribute team ;-) | 15:24 |
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| * markvoelker notes that we're 24 minutes into the meeting now and have AI's for this topic...move on and continue discussion on ML? | 15:24 | |
| zehicle_IRL | could be interesting to work around the Board meeting | 15:24 |
| Shamail | I'll be at OSCON | 15:24 |
| zehicle_IRL | +1 to move on | 15:24 |
| purp | +1 | 15:24 |
| zehicle_IRL | good start - we need to get this scheduled so people can plan | 15:25 |
| eglute | +1 | 15:25 |
| barrett | +1 | 15:25 |
| zehicle_IRL | #topic Flag.1 v1.3 Schema | 15:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Flag.1 v1.3 Schema (Meeting topic: DefCore)" | 15:25 | |
| zehicle_IRL | #topic Flag.2 v1.3 Schema | 15:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Flag.2 v1.3 Schema (Meeting topic: DefCore)" | 15:25 | |
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| zehicle_IRL | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/185158/ | 15:25 |
| markvoelker | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/185158/ Schema 1.3 review | 15:26 |
| eglute | i have not had a chance to review the latest changes | 15:26 |
| zehicle_IRL | quick review: Chris and I sat down and figured out how to make the schema changes less disruptive | 15:26 |
| zehicle_IRL | markvoelker, been doing a good job making sure that we update reference materials with the change | 15:26 |
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| zehicle_IRL | overall, the change to the schema did not break the existing parser | 15:27 |
| zehicle_IRL | there are some items that we're leaving in to deprecate later | 15:27 |
| hogepodge | markvoelker: We can have a discussion about sha vs is in defcore room if you want, after meeting. | 15:27 |
| hogepodge | s/in/id/ | 15:27 |
| markvoelker | hogepodge: sure | 15:27 |
| zehicle_IRL | I'd like to have a time limit on the reviews because we need to get the new capabilities into the file too | 15:28 |
| markvoelker | (or in gerrit) | 15:28 |
| eglute | at first glance, the 1.3 looks good to me | 15:28 |
| zehicle_IRL | I know that markvoelker and hogepodge need to resolve the git-id item | 15:28 |
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| zehicle_IRL | most of the changes were too meta information not the schema | 15:28 |
| eglute | ok | 15:28 |
| zehicle_IRL | markvoelker, you OK with a 48 hour turn around? | 15:29 |
| markvoelker | #action markvoelker (et al) will review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/185158/ in the next 48 hours | 15:29 |
| markvoelker | =) | 15:29 |
| zehicle_IRL | we can continue to iterate on the rst support files | 15:29 |
| hogepodge | for the git item, openstack tags releases, and take them seriously. | 15:29 |
| zehicle_IRL | If you find issues, go ahead and push an update. | 15:30 |
| hogepodge | so saying "4" has direct meeting as an ID, and while a sha exists that matches it and will never change, I'd like to allow something like "4" to be used. | 15:30 |
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| zehicle_IRL | before we move on, anyone have questions about the WHY? this is 1.3 and not the more agressive 2.0 change? | 15:30 |
| hogepodge | trusting qa team doesn't decide to move a tag. | 15:30 |
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| markvoelker | hogepodge: do all repositories of tests we're using use tags that way though? I think right now it's basically tempest and in-tree tests, so presumably yes... | 15:31 |
| zehicle_IRL | basically, we figured out we could add the flags under the tests | 15:31 |
| markvoelker | hogepodge: with the governance changes, I think it's possible some might not. | 15:31 |
| hogepodge | markvoelker: I don't know, but I've also come around to be strongly opposed to using anything but tempest (which is a debate for another week) | 15:32 |
| zehicle_IRL | moving on... | 15:32 |
| zehicle_IRL | hogepodge, that's a good discussion to have. (later in the agenda) | 15:32 |
| zehicle_IRL | #topic Flag.2 Capabilities Subdivsion | 15:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Flag.2 Capabilities Subdivsion (Meeting topic: DefCore)" | 15:32 | |
| zehicle_IRL | I did not see Van | 15:33 |
| eglute | i think he is traveling this week | 15:33 |
| zehicle_IRL | ok | 15:33 |
| zehicle_IRL | it looked like subdividing the capabilities was really more mechanical | 15:33 |
| zehicle_IRL | we just need the v1.3 schema in first | 15:34 |
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| eglute | do we want to move subdividing to next week's meeting? | 15:34 |
| purp | +1 | 15:34 |
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| markvoelker | +1 (makes sense for Van to be here to cover this since he was driving it) | 15:34 |
| zehicle_IRL | 1 question about it - do we do it in .next first | 15:35 |
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| markvoelker | zehicle_IRL: I would think so. 2015.05 is already board-approved and immutable, no? | 15:35 |
| zehicle_IRL | #idea future item: back propagate v1.3 schema and subcapabilities | 15:35 |
| zehicle_IRL | markvoelker, we'd talked about having a 2015.06 version with the subcapabilities | 15:36 |
| zehicle_IRL | let's focus on getting the changes in .next and then discuss backwards movement in the future | 15:36 |
| markvoelker | hmm...my gut reaction would be to oppose issuing a new guideline outside of the timelines established in the process docs | 15:36 |
| zehicle_IRL | for now, yes markvoelker , we should consider immutable | 15:36 |
| markvoelker | But open to discussing it | 15:36 |
| zehicle_IRL | markvoelker, we already told the board to expect another guideline since we were not able to make the subcaps change | 15:37 |
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| zehicle_IRL | it's sideways - there are no new additions | 15:37 |
| markvoelker | zehicle_IRL: it's not hte Board I'm worried about, but people trying to get a logo agreement. | 15:37 |
| markvoelker | We have not informed them, and in fact at the summit we told them that we were done with the catch-up quick release cycles. | 15:38 |
| hogepodge | zehicle_IRL: the danger is in flagged tests. since we didn't bring them forward, we can be in a situation where defcore fails for many vendors because flags get timed out. | 15:38 |
| zehicle_IRL | so far, there are no material deltas for vendors between the files | 15:38 |
| zehicle_IRL | everyone OK w/ getting the changes in .next and then revisiting? | 15:38 |
| markvoelker | yep | 15:38 |
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| eglute | +1 | 15:38 |
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| hogepodge | zehicle_IRL: it's not insurmountable (two stepping it, bring all flags forward), just wanted to bring it up. | 15:39 |
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| hogepodge | (this is the flag cycle after all) | 15:39 |
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| eglute | flags! is that the next topic? | 15:39 |
| zehicle_IRL | #topic Flag.2 Criteria for Adding Flags back | 15:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Flag.2 Criteria for Adding Flags back (Meeting topic: DefCore)" | 15:39 | |
| eglute | we had this from our meeting in vancouver: "Types of flags: broken test, broken code (e.g. resize), and reasonable disagreement. Others?" | 15:41 |
| zehicle_IRL | so, we need to have a set of criteria for flagging testst | 15:41 |
| hogepodge | I think it's a matter of going back though the logs and submitting new patches grouped by reasons (common test code broken, etc). | 15:41 |
| zehicle_IRL | discuss here for 10 minutes then create a patch for Hacking? | 15:41 |
| hogepodge | Then seeing if we can fix in a reasonable time, or bring problems forward. | 15:42 |
| zehicle_IRL | I think we've got the mechanics ready in the schema | 15:42 |
| zehicle_IRL | what reasons are we going to accept for flagging tests.... brainstorm.... | 15:42 |
| hogepodge | (i.e., if the action is to fix a part of tempest, and we can do it in a week or two, not merge the flag patch for that problem and fix the tests) | 15:42 |
| eglute | who would be responsible to fix teh tests? foundation, vendor, other? | 15:43 |
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| purp | Ugh. Unfortunately I have to drop now, and this was the topic I wanted most to be involved in. | 15:43 |
| hogepodge | One would hope the vendors who raised the flags would be invested in fixing the tests, but we can't dictate technical solutions. | 15:44 |
| zehicle_IRL | eglute, good question - not sure how to resolve it here | 15:44 |
| zehicle_IRL | what do we want to accept as reasons to flag a test? | 15:44 |
| hogepodge | So if there are no volunteers to fix something, the recourse should be to pul the flag back in. | 15:44 |
| * zehicle_IRL brainstorming, looking for input | 15:44 | |
| eglute | hogepodge i dont think we can ask vendor to fix it | 15:45 |
| * purp leaving at sucky time. | 15:45 | |
| zehicle_IRL | hogepodge, eglute I'd like to put that question aside for now | 15:45 |
| eglute | purp we will be in the other channel later, find us there! | 15:45 |
| hogepodge | eglute: we can ask, just not require. | 15:45 |
| markvoelker | zehicle_IRL: strawman input: 1.) the test is for a capability that fails to meet DefCore Criteria (as set out in the CoreCriteria doc) | 15:45 |
| hogepodge | eglute: vendor can always say "no" | 15:45 |
| markvoelker | 2.) The test is buggy and fails to test the Criteria properly | 15:45 |
| hogepodge | 3) upstream is broken | 15:46 |
| markvoelker | 3.) The test fails because other non-DefCore Criteria are also tested. | 15:46 |
| eglute | hogepodge where there other flagged tests that didnt fall into one of the 4 categories listed? | 15:46 |
| zehicle_IRL | #) reflects an implementation choice that is not universally accepted | 15:46 |
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| markvoelker | zehicle_URL: I think that falls into my #1 since one of our CoreCriteria is "widely deployed" | 15:47 |
| markvoelker | (I'm thinking of some of the security-oriented flag requests we saw come in here) | 15:47 |
| hogepodge | Where do policy options fall here? | 15:47 |
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| zehicle_IRL | I think there's a nuance where it's widely deployed different ways | 15:47 |
| zehicle_IRL | #) security concerns raised | 15:48 |
| markvoelker | hogepodge: if there are lots of different policy choices being made about a criteria, then it's not "widely deployed" in my book | 15:48 |
| hogepodge | If nova gives you a file that specifies policies for APIs, and a vendor modifies the expected defaults, is that a reason to let them flag? | 15:48 |
| eglute | also, when tests fail cause some other component used by openstack, if there is a bug with kvm or similar | 15:48 |
| zehicle_IRL | markvoelker, I think that it will come back to us to CHOOSE which way will win | 15:48 |
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| zehicle_IRL | it's going to come back to interop. for some things, we need to have consistent implementation | 15:48 |
| hogepodge | markvoelker: but PTLs expressed strong opinions about why they set those policies, and I heard a couple of times "a policy change from our defaults breaks our intent and is not openstack) | 15:48 |
| zehicle_IRL | I don't know WHICH things but we need to expect that to be a factor | 15:49 |
| markvoelker | I'm not sure I agree that if you make something configurable and somebody configures it, you can't call it OpenStack. | 15:49 |
| hogepodge | markvoelker: and they're now looking at technical solutions to prevent policy changes from not happening where they don't want them to happen | 15:49 |
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| zehicle_IRL | markvoelker, I think it's case by case | 15:49 |
| zehicle_IRL | we also have to consider interop | 15:50 |
| * zehicle_IRL raises 10 minutes remaining flag | 15:50 | |
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| zehicle_IRL | do we have enough to create a hacking patch? | 15:50 |
| eglute | i think so | 15:51 |
| markvoelker | zehicle_IRL: I suspect we have enough to start a patch and discuss/iterate on it in gerrit. I would expect it may take a little more time to land though, as there seem to be a lot of opinions to discuss. | 15:51 |
| zehicle_IRL | since this will take a while, I'd consider putting a -1 workflow on it UNLESS that will limit discussion | 15:51 |
| markvoelker | zehicle_IRL: sure | 15:51 |
| eglute | #action create hacking patch with flagging reasons | 15:52 |
| markvoelker | eglute: who has that AI? | 15:52 |
| Will__ | +1 the -1 | 15:52 |
| zehicle_IRL | can we start w/ E### instead of D### ? not sure of the D prefix | 15:52 |
| eglute | if there are no volunteers, i will | 15:52 |
| zehicle_IRL | eglute, thanks | 15:52 |
| hogepodge | I'm confused about which patch that is. The 1.3 schema patch? | 15:53 |
| eglute | HACKING doc patch i think | 15:53 |
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| zehicle_IRL | eglute, yes. each rule would be it's own # | 15:53 |
| eglute | +1 | 15:54 |
| eglute | next topic? | 15:54 |
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| zehicle_IRL | #topic Flag.2 strategic test planning | 15:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Flag.2 strategic test planning (Meeting topic: DefCore)" | 15:54 | |
| hogepodge | I'd like for us to start thinking about what technical requirements we want out of tests. Right now it's just non-admin and api. | 15:55 |
| eglute | is this for planning new tests? | 15:55 |
| hogepodge | But that requires things like multiple images, multiple users, multiple tenants. | 15:55 |
| zehicle_IRL | at some point, I'd like to get the admin tests included in our review. they are relevant for private clouds | 15:55 |
| hogepodge | Are those reasonable expectations in looking for interop? | 15:55 |
| zehicle_IRL | hogepodge, so you are thinking of expanding tests for our uses cases? | 15:55 |
| hogepodge | The tests also pull in network ids, etc. | 15:56 |
| * zehicle_IRL would like to see tests that are interop focused. | 15:56 | |
| eglute | +1 interop tests | 15:56 |
| markvoelker | So, the idea of having separate tests for separate use cases did come up in Vancouver.... | 15:56 |
| zehicle_IRL | we are stressing the primary use--cases for Tempest by adding interop | 15:56 |
| hogepodge | I'm thinking of coming up with a standard that expresses a "maximum knowledge for interoperability", then start identifying tests that match that and rewriting existing tests to meet it | 15:56 |
| hogepodge | A long term initiative. | 15:57 |
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| zehicle_IRL | reasonable - do you think they could also pass the gate? | 15:57 |
| hogepodge | To build on what we have. | 15:57 |
| eglute | we are almost at time, do we need an action item for this? | 15:57 |
| hogepodge | Yes, they'd be still in tempest | 15:57 |
| zehicle_IRL | are gates a subset of those are are they a discrete set? | 15:57 |
| hogepodge | eglute I'm working up a proposal. | 15:57 |
| eglute | we can always move discussion to the defcore channel if we get kicked out | 15:57 |
| zehicle_IRL | we can track it as a future item. like driving to the f2f | 15:58 |
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| eglute | +1 | 15:58 |
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| markvoelker | eglute: I'd suggest that we have an AI to take this up on the ML then discuss next week when we have a more concrete thing to look at. | 15:58 |
| zehicle_IRL | that covers the primary business. | 15:58 |
| zehicle_IRL | reminder for everyone to look at the v1.3 patch (tick tick tick) | 15:58 |
| hogepodge | #action hogepodge test standards proposal | 15:59 |
| hogepodge | (that's terribly worded) :-( | 15:59 |
| zehicle_IRL | last words..... | 15:59 |
| zehicle_IRL | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "(Meeting topic: sc)" | 15:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jun 3 15:59:45 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/defcore/2015/defcore.2015-06-03-15.01.html | 15:59 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/defcore/2015/defcore.2015-06-03-15.01.txt | 15:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/defcore/2015/defcore.2015-06-03-15.01.log.html | 15:59 |
| zehicle_IRL | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreFlag.3 | 16:00 |
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| s3wong | #endmeeting | 18:01 |
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| sdake | #startmeeting kolla | 21:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jun 3 21:59:59 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sdake. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 22:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'kolla' | 22:00 |
| sdake | #topic rollcall | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 22:00 | |
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| SamYaple | hello | 22:00 |
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| sdake | steak for dinner! | 22:00 |
| mandre | ji | 22:00 |
| pdb-mobile | Hey | 22:00 |
| mandre | hu | 22:00 |
| rhallisey | hi | 22:00 |
| smeisner | hello | 22:00 |
| bmace | greetings | 22:00 |
| loth | hi | 22:00 |
| mandre | hi | 22:00 |
| mstachow | hi :D | 22:00 |
| dasm | o/ | 22:00 |
| mandre | got it right this time | 22:00 |
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| sdake | i'll wait a couple more minutre for any laggards :) | 22:01 |
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| sdake | but looks like we have a small army ready to invade :) | 22:01 |
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| daneyon_ | hey | 22:01 |
| rhallisey | daneyon_, long time no see | 22:01 |
| jpeeler | i'm here, but i'm probably going to have to take off early today | 22:01 |
| sdake | ack jpeeler | 22:02 |
| sdake | letsget rooing | 22:02 |
| sdake | #topic announcements | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 22:02 | |
| daneyon_ | rhallisey, ya I had to support another event after Vancouver that sucked a lot of my time | 22:02 |
| sdake | I'll be at a conference next and be unable to chair the meeting | 22:02 |
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| rhallisey | daneyon_, finally got cinder working | 22:02 |
| sdake | need a cat from the community to offer their time to chair the meeting | 22:02 |
| sdake | i'll set the agenda | 22:03 |
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| rhallisey | I can do it | 22:03 |
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| sdake | and provide a bit of coaching | 22:03 |
| daneyon_ | rhallisey u are the man!!!! I've seen the reviews going by but have yet to check it out. | 22:03 |
| sdake | sweet | 22:03 |
| SamYaple | good job rhallisey | 22:03 |
| sdake | #action rhallisey to chair next kolla team meeting while steak is out to dinner | 22:03 |
| rhallisey | ha | 22:03 |
| sdake | second announcement | 22:03 |
| sdake | I'd like to hold a midcycle for our devs to get together | 22:04 |
| sdake | since we didn't really have summit conference space this year | 22:04 |
| sdake | location would be san jose July 10-25 in that range | 22:04 |
| sdake | 1-2 days | 22:04 |
| sdake | I'll post a doodle poll on the ml to see if we can sort out a couple days | 22:05 |
| sdake | anyone have problems with the location? | 22:05 |
| daneyon_ | I will on the road for training 7/6-7/9, so it will be difficult for me to travel the following week. | 22:05 |
| sdake | daneyon ack, i'lll put a couple weeks in and people can vote on days they like | 22:06 |
| sdake | i'll go with where I get the most coverage from the core team and our fresh faces | 22:06 |
| mandre | and I'll be traveling to France on 7/20, that may be difficult for me as well | 22:06 |
| daneyon_ | If it's in SJC, I can pull off a day trip. If it's later in the month, then no prob | 22:06 |
| sdake | well lets sort it out in the doodle poll :) | 22:07 |
| sdake | just wanted to let folks know its coming on the ml | 22:07 |
| sdake | and that you may need to hit your bosses up for travel budget ;) | 22:07 |
| SamYaple | whenever the date, i need as much notice as possible otherwise RAX will hold me back | 22:07 |
| sdake | ack | 22:07 |
| sdake | #topic manifesto definition finalization | 22:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "manifesto definition finalization (Meeting topic: kolla)" | 22:08 | |
| sdake | I put our manifesto we produced last week on our wiki at: | 22:08 |
| sdake | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Kolla | 22:08 |
| sdake | I had an experienced mentor take a look and she said it was a bit wordy | 22:08 |
| sdake | grilled me about what we do | 22:09 |
| sdake | and indicated there wasn't a good match with our manfiesto | 22:09 |
| sdake | so I'd like to edit if possible | 22:09 |
| daneyon_ | OK | 22:09 |
| sdake | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kolla-manifesto | 22:10 |
| sdake | can folks log into that real quick like | 22:10 |
| mandre | it's missing an important word IMO, "production" | 22:10 |
| sdake | I think we need to make a list of words we should use, shsould not use, and potentially use, along with rules we want to follow | 22:10 |
| sdake | and refine what we havebased upon that | 22:10 |
| sdake | does that approach sound workable? | 22:10 |
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| sdake | if your -1 on an idea add your name next to it so we know who to grill :) | 22:14 |
| SamYaple | is the manifesto what we want to be, or what we are? | 22:15 |
| bmace | exactly, i expect it is what we want to be | 22:15 |
| SamYaple | same | 22:15 |
| sdake | where we want to be in t-6 months | 22:15 |
| bmace | i think ha is reasonable then, imho | 22:16 |
| sdake | re the use of buzzword bingo names ANsible DOcker OpenStack I think these are mandatory - we have made choices on these tehcnologies | 22:16 |
| sdake | leave the original statemenet intact | 22:16 |
| sdake | any other contirbutions to the rules? | 22:16 |
| daneyon_ | oops... i started changing our manifesto | 22:17 |
| sdake | ya well shit happens | 22:17 |
| mandre | I'll argue with that, they don't describe our goals, but the tools we chose to get there | 22:17 |
| sdake | lets add a new one at end | 22:17 |
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| sdake | ok so rules are mandatory | 22:17 |
| sdake | everything else is not mandatory | 22:17 |
| sdake | I'd like folks to write a mission statement each nidviduallly | 22:18 |
| sdake | put your name next to it | 22:18 |
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| rhallisey | ehh I wrote the first one :D | 22:18 |
| sdake | do at bottoom of etherpad | 22:18 |
| pdb-mobile | What kind of length are we aiming for, longer or shorter than current? | 22:20 |
| SamYaple | pdb-mobile: 1-2 sentences | 22:20 |
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| sdake | shorter | 22:23 |
| sdake | shorter = sweeter :) | 22:23 |
| sdake | well this is fun so far - interesting to see what everone thinks our mission should be :) | 22:24 |
| sdake | bmace had a question, edited my mission statemnet | 22:24 |
| sdake | what I would recommend if you have questions, is to add (nick) Question at end of the persons mission statement | 22:25 |
| bmace | sdake i didn't really call out specific technologies but i can add them in if need be. beyond docker / ansible i think some sort of scripting on top of that will be necessary, so something specific to kolla, unless you want to force all users of kolla to develop their own mechanism to do that... | 22:27 |
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| bmace | something needs to be there to configure what nodes have what services on them, etc, unless you want people to need to edit playbooks | 22:27 |
| SamYaple | bmace: i agree with not calling out the specifics | 22:28 |
| SamYaple | I view the extra tools as templates/optional. Kolla is first and formost about the containers (to me) | 22:28 |
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| bmace | oh, definitely optional.. but i think the option to have it there already needs to exist.. | 22:29 |
| bmace | or everyone has to build their own | 22:29 |
| bmace | rather than 'can' build their own | 22:29 |
| SamYaple | but if its "optional" should it be mentioned _specifically_ in the manifesto | 22:29 |
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| bmace | well, at that point the manifesto will only be to build containerized open stack services, since all the ha stuff is optional to | 22:30 |
| bmace | too | 22:30 |
| sdake | ok guys lets have a break for a minute and make a decision | 22:30 |
| dasm | bmace: are we thinking about reimplementing the wheel, or reusing existing tools, like heat, tripleo, etc? | 22:30 |
| sdake | there is some conflict about whether we should name the specific tools/systems are are using | 22:30 |
| bmace | i don't think any of those things are particularly wheels | 22:30 |
| sdake | please vote +1 to use these names | 22:30 |
| pdb-mobile | You could argue there are two projects here. One being the containers and the other being orchestration | 22:31 |
| sdake | pleave vote -1 to not use these names | 22:31 |
| sdake | we will go with majority | 22:31 |
| dasm | -1 | 22:31 |
| rhallisey | -1 | 22:31 |
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| sdake | to be specific, names are "Docker, Ansible, OpenStack" | 22:31 |
| daneyon_ | -1 | 22:31 |
| mstachow | -1 | 22:31 |
| SamYaple | -1 | 22:31 |
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| jpeeler | Well I think OpenStack could be an exception | 22:31 |
| sdake | no exceptions | 22:32 |
| loth | -1, excluding openstack | 22:32 |
| daneyon_ | +1 using OpenStack | 22:32 |
| rhallisey | s/openstack/tripleo | 22:32 |
| mandre | -1 | 22:32 |
| sdake | exceptions are always bad ;( | 22:32 |
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| jpeeler | heh, an openstack project can't mention openstack? | 22:32 |
| mandre | and yes, I also think OpenStack is mandatory | 22:32 |
| sdake | one could argue we are a docker project? | 22:32 |
| SamYaple | this is confusing then. either mentino them one at a time, but Openstack _should_ be mandatory | 22:32 |
| SamYaple | sdake: i disagree | 22:32 |
| mandre | today is docker, tomorrow might be something else | 22:32 |
| daneyon_ | I think it's fair to use OpenStack in the manifest since the project is specific to OpenStack clouds | 22:32 |
| jpeeler | we were talking about joining the openstack namespace | 22:32 |
| jpeeler | last meeting | 22:33 |
| sdake | ok well it looks like folks think we shouldn't mention specific names, there is some contention about using openstack based upon this vote | 22:33 |
| sdake | so lets vote on OpenStack only please | 22:33 |
| bmace | agreed w/ SamYaple. the containers made are specifically related to OpenStack and really only meant for that purpose, even if you could possibly use some of them for something else. | 22:33 |
| sdake | +1 use OpenSetack | 22:33 |
| sdake | -1 don't ue OpenStack | 22:33 |
| SamYaple | +1 | 22:33 |
| bmace | +1 | 22:33 |
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| loth | +1 | 22:33 |
| dasm | +1, use openstack | 22:33 |
| daneyon_ | unless we plan to support cloudstack, then I +1 openstack in the manifesto | 22:33 |
| rhallisey | +1 | 22:33 |
| pdb-mobile | +1 | 22:33 |
| jpeeler | +1 openstack is fine | 22:33 |
| mandre | +1 | 22:33 |
| mstachow | +1 | 22:33 |
| sdake | I vote -1 only because I don't think exceptions are ever wise. | 22:34 |
| sdake | so decision is made | 22:34 |
| sdake | remove docker/ansible from your mission statements plz | 22:34 |
| sdake | and include OpenStack | 22:35 |
| daneyon_ | Maybe someone in the community adds rkt or lxc support | 22:35 |
| sdake | already been voted on no need to discuss | 22:35 |
| SamYaple | daneyon_: rkt natively supports docker containers | 22:35 |
| pdb-mobile | Theres something in the python manifesto about being too rigid with exceptions ;) | 22:35 |
| daneyon_ | righ | 22:35 |
| daneyon_ | t | 22:35 |
| SamYaple | (or that is a requiremnet of rkt should i say) | 22:35 |
| sdake | and do not edit other peoples mission statements | 22:36 |
| sdake | christ | 22:36 |
| daneyon_ | maybe someone decides to add hyper_ support ;-) | 22:36 |
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| SamYaple | daneyon_: that can be done now with configuration | 22:36 |
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| SamYaple | htought the windows setup is outside scope of kolla I would think, just like vmware setup | 22:36 |
| daneyon_ | right | 22:36 |
| sdake | 3 minutes to edit your mission statements, then we wil lvote on best one | 22:37 |
| sdake | one with most votes wins | 22:37 |
| sdake | :41 | 22:38 |
| SamYaple | esh just like that? no merging of statements? | 22:38 |
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| sdake | we will start with the highest vote and edit from there | 22:38 |
| SamYaple | fair | 22:38 |
| sdake | perhaps next week ;) | 22:38 |
| sdake | please add your rationale for your vote | 22:38 |
| daneyon_ | SamYaple I was refereeing to hyper_ (https://hyper.sh/) and not HyperV | 22:38 |
| sdake | (sdake) xyz | 22:39 |
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| sdake | (Sdake) -1 too wordy | 22:39 |
| sdake | this is an example | 22:39 |
| sdake | t-2 minutes to voting | 22:39 |
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| SamYaple | daneyon_: my brain did not process the lack of V | 22:39 |
| daneyon_ | sdake are we allowed to vote for our own? | 22:39 |
| sdake | of course | 22:39 |
| sdake | you ahve to vote on everyones | 22:40 |
| sdake | either +1 or -1 | 22:40 |
| sdake | with a rationale | 22:40 |
| sdake | (making this up a I go along :) | 22:40 |
| SamYaple | mandre: can you adjust "OpenStack micro-services" to "micro-services needed to run Openstack" or similar? | 22:40 |
| sdake | lets edit after the vote | 22:40 |
| SamYaple | since we do provide database/message-broker? | 22:40 |
| sdake | if you are in general agreement vote +1, if you need editing vote +1, if you dont like vote -1 | 22:40 |
| sdake | ok time to vote :) | 22:40 |
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| sdake | vote faster we are running out of time :) | 22:46 |
| sdake | VOTE DONT EDIT | 22:47 |
| sdake | edit comes next week - we only have 12 minutes | 22:48 |
| sdake | I want to see a vote from every person on every mission plz | 22:48 |
| sdake | with a rationale | 22:48 |
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| SamYaple | does pdb not have enough to call it now? I dont see anything anywhere near it | 22:48 |
| sdake | i want a vote on every mission statement with a rationale | 22:49 |
| sdake | so we know what people want in the community | 22:50 |
| sdake | it is pretty clear from my votes and rationales I want container content and deployment | 22:50 |
| sdake | I need to know what the community wants - kolla is not me :) | 22:50 |
| sdake | name next to vote plz | 22:51 |
| pdb-home | so many colors :o | 22:52 |
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| sdake | yay this is fun :) | 22:54 |
| SamYaple | oh i should have edited out the primary/secondary part on mine. that was to get my thoughts down :/ | 22:55 |
| pdb-home | phew, think Ive voted on all now | 22:55 |
| sdake | ok guys i'm going to end the meeting and continue the agenda to next week | 22:55 |
| sdake | finish up voting and lets have a bit of discussion in #kolla | 22:56 |
| sdake | agreed? | 22:56 |
| SamYaple | agreed | 22:56 |
| sdake | samyaple one ring to rule them all :) | 22:56 |
| sdake | #endmeeting | 22:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "(Meeting topic: sc)" | 22:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jun 3 22:56:36 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2015/kolla.2015-06-03-21.59.html | 22:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2015/kolla.2015-06-03-21.59.txt | 22:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2015/kolla.2015-06-03-21.59.log.html | 22:56 |
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