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| krtaylor | #startmeeting third-party | 04:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 22 04:00:35 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krtaylor. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 04:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 04:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 04:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 04:00 |
| krtaylor | anyone here for third party ci working group meeting? | 04:00 |
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| asselin_ | hi | 04:01 |
| krtaylor | hi asselin_ | 04:01 |
| asselin_ | hi krtaylor | 04:01 |
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| asselin_ | i guess it's just us? | 04:05 |
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| krtaylor | asselin_, ? | 04:11 |
| asselin_ | krtaylor, hi | 04:12 |
| krtaylor | what did you miss? what was the last I said? | 04:12 |
| asselin_ | <krtaylor> hi asselin_ | 04:12 |
| krtaylor | wow | 04:12 |
| asselin_ | I guess I missed everything | 04:12 |
| krtaylor | I'd really like to figure out who is kicking me right when I have a meeting | 04:12 |
| krtaylor | I never have a problem with openstack meetings until its my turn | 04:13 |
| krtaylor | I didn't lose my network connection, just with freenode #openstack-meeting-4 | 04:14 |
| * asselin_ wonders if the bot 'heard' anything | 04:14 | |
| krtaylor | whatever | 04:14 |
| krtaylor | ok, replay | 04:14 |
| krtaylor | well this might be a short meeting, since we are lacking a quorum form non-US timezones once again | 04:14 |
| krtaylor | after summit we should re-examine all the different third party meetings and times | 04:14 |
| asselin_ | agree | 04:14 |
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| krtaylor | thanks for your reviews to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/175520 | 04:15 |
| krtaylor | I am excited to get the repo in place | 04:15 |
| krtaylor | we have 4 or 5 different tools that we'll push (IBM PowerKVM) | 04:15 |
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| krtaylor | asselin_, did you have anything you wanted to bring up? | 04:15 |
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| asselin_ | yes, looking forward to check that out | 04:15 |
| patrickeast | hi, sorry im late | 04:16 |
| asselin_ | nothing since the last 3rd party meeting :) | 04:16 |
| krtaylor | hi patrickeast | 04:16 |
| asselin_ | we do have a zuul refactor patch up | 04:16 |
| asselin_ | up patrickeast | 04:16 |
| krtaylor | I got kicked again, you didnt miss much :) | 04:16 |
| asselin_ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/175970/ | 04:16 |
| asselin_ | need to figure out the best way to test these changes | 04:17 |
| asselin_ | automated test I mean | 04:17 |
| patrickeast | are there frameworks for puppet script testing kind of things? | 04:18 |
| asselin_ | yes, but clarkb doesn't like them b/c they basically make you rewrite the entire puppet script in another file | 04:18 |
| asselin_ | nibalizer's looking into envassert. | 04:18 |
| patrickeast | ew yea if you have to rewrite the whole thing that sucks | 04:19 |
| asselin_ | I don't know the full details...I think he had mixed feelings about it | 04:19 |
| asselin_ | my approach is more functional, via bash script https://review.openstack.org/#/c/169117/ | 04:19 |
| asselin_ | clarkb likes it | 04:20 |
| asselin_ | but it needs to be refined a bit to simplify and be more reusable | 04:20 |
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| patrickeast | interesting | 04:20 |
| patrickeast | that looks like it would work pretty well | 04:20 |
| krtaylor | nice | 04:20 |
| patrickeast | that envassert module looks pretty nifty too | 04:21 |
| patrickeast | so it looks like we have some options then | 04:22 |
| asselin_ | I didn't get a chance to look at it, but it would simplify a lot of verification | 04:22 |
| asselin_ | sorry need to step away for 1-2 minutes | 04:22 |
| krtaylor | np, not much happening this meeting | 04:23 |
| krtaylor | patrickeast, did you have anything you needed to discuss? | 04:23 |
| patrickeast | nope, nothing new from me | 04:23 |
| patrickeast | day job takes most of my time from thirdparty stuff :( | 04:24 |
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| patrickeast | and chasing ghosts with our ci system | 04:24 |
| krtaylor | yeah, tell me about it | 04:24 |
| patrickeast | something wrong with our networking or openvswitch config | 04:24 |
| krtaylor | oh | 04:24 |
| asselin_ | i'm back | 04:24 |
| patrickeast | every once and a while the tests just can’t ssh into an instance | 04:24 |
| patrickeast | but no errors in any log that i’ve found yet | 04:24 |
| patrickeast | just a fixture timeout and test failure | 04:25 |
| patrickeast | haven’t been able to reproduce it with a node that i have held onto yet either | 04:25 |
| krtaylor | held onto? | 04:26 |
| asselin_ | nodepool hold | 04:26 |
| krtaylor | ah, right | 04:26 |
| patrickeast | yea keep the vm around so nodepool doesn’t recycle it | 04:26 |
| patrickeast | it started happening when we switched our providers public network from vxlan to flat | 04:27 |
| patrickeast | thats the only thing thats new | 04:27 |
| patrickeast | unless its a new bug in openstack somewhere | 04:27 |
| krtaylor | possible, we try to find any new problems in our development environment before we roll them out to production | 04:28 |
| patrickeast | same here | 04:28 |
| patrickeast | doesn’t happen frequently enough that we saw it until it was too late | 04:28 |
| krtaylor | but our test targets are different | 04:28 |
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| patrickeast | i recently added additional test configurations so we have 3x the number of runs to smoke it out for each patchset | 04:29 |
| patrickeast | soon to be 5x when we get our fc stuff underway | 04:29 |
| patrickeast | so i have hope to piece together whats going on eventually | 04:29 |
| krtaylor | you are running 3x on each patch? wow | 04:30 |
| patrickeast | yea, one normal, one with multipath enabled, and one with CHAP authentication enabled | 04:30 |
| patrickeast | different enough code paths in cinder that it can pass on one and fail the others | 04:30 |
| patrickeast | had a bug that almost didn’t make it into kilo because we weren’t testing them all | 04:30 |
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| asselin_ | we need to start testing with chap | 04:31 |
| asselin_ | but honestly the issue we have is that it doesn't scale | 04:31 |
| patrickeast | yea scaling them is a pain | 04:32 |
| patrickeast | such a big test matrix with all the config options | 04:32 |
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| patrickeast | toss in a handful of hypervisors and os targets… | 04:32 |
| asselin_ | ideally, all those paths would be in one job | 04:32 |
| asselin_ | b/c a lot of time is spent on setup | 04:32 |
| patrickeast | hmm thats something worth looking into | 04:32 |
| patrickeast | set up devstack gate, run one, reconfigure, run again, repeat | 04:33 |
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| asselin_ | yes | 04:33 |
| patrickeast | would definitely cut down the time quite a bit | 04:33 |
| patrickeast | like 15 min per run | 04:33 |
| patrickeast | per job* | 04:33 |
| asselin_ | yeah...for some reason our job times are back to over 1 hour. they used to be 30 minutes.... | 04:34 |
| asselin_ | that's another issue we should add to the summit | 04:34 |
| asselin_ | 1. multiple test configurations in a single run | 04:35 |
| patrickeast | i recently cut out the boto tests from ours and it helped reduce the time | 04:35 |
| patrickeast | but i think you already skip them, right? | 04:35 |
| krtaylor | hm, ours have been dropping | 04:35 |
| asselin_ | 2. profiling ci jobs | 04:35 |
| krtaylor | ++ | 04:35 |
| asselin_ | patrickeast, yes, we're skipping. they fail anyways...not sure why, and not sure how important they are | 04:36 |
| patrickeast | yea they were very prone to failing with the timeouts i’ve seen in our system | 04:36 |
| patrickeast | i too am unsure how important they are | 04:36 |
| patrickeast | my understanding is there is some compatibility layer so you can do openstack stuff via a boto interface | 04:37 |
| patrickeast | but it looks like they end up just creating volumes/instances and what not like any of the other tests | 04:38 |
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| asselin_ | I think the boto service is just not comming up /accessible in our case. but I need to take another look to see what's really going on. | 04:40 |
| asselin_ | but I have more important things to do...so skipping | 04:40 |
| krtaylor | asselin_, do you know if there is a cinder ci testing session proposed? | 04:41 |
| asselin_ | I added those 2 items to the etherpad | 04:41 |
| patrickeast | haha yea… its on my backlog somewhere | 04:41 |
| asselin_ | krtaylor, I don't think so.....but could be wrong | 04:41 |
| patrickeast | i don’t remember seeing one on the etherpad | 04:41 |
| asselin_ | I know there's a manila one | 04:41 |
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| krtaylor | so I guess we could discuss at the cross-project proposed session | 04:42 |
| krtaylor | not sure if we'll get that and the infra session, but we'll see | 04:42 |
| krtaylor | hehheh, so much for a short meeting :) | 04:43 |
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| krtaylor | well, the only topics for discussion were topics for summit | 04:44 |
| krtaylor | and the repo patchset | 04:44 |
| krtaylor | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/175520 | 04:45 |
| krtaylor | thanks for your reviews | 04:45 |
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| patrickeast | looks like it is pretty much ready to go now, yea? | 04:46 |
| krtaylor | I hope so, I can't imagine any more typos :) | 04:46 |
| patrickeast | lol | 04:47 |
| krtaylor | anything else to discuss asselin_ or patrickeast ? | 04:49 |
| asselin_ | that's it from me | 04:49 |
| patrickeast | nothin else here | 04:49 |
| krtaylor | ok, thanks everyone, I'll shut this down then | 04:50 |
| krtaylor | #endmeeting | 04:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 04:51 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 22 04:51:40 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 04:51 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-04-22-04.00.html | 04:51 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-04-22-04.00.txt | 04:51 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-04-22-04.00.log.html | 04:51 |
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| garyk | anyone around for the vmware meeting? | 10:06 |
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| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: gerrit is restarting to clear hung stream-events tasks. any review events between 16:48 and 17:32 utc will need to be rechecked or have their approval votes reapplied to trigger testing in zuul | 17:32 | |
| rlpple | Guess I missed operators meeting?? | 17:33 |
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| Rockyg | o/ | 20:00 |
| nkrinner | hi | 20:00 |
| Rockyg | kewl. new guy. | 20:00 |
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| jokke_ | o/ | 20:01 |
| Rockyg | Well, let's kick this off | 20:01 |
| Rockyg | #startmeeting log_wg | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 22 20:01:55 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Rockyg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: log_wg)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'log_wg' | 20:02 |
| Rockyg | Now, the question: do we have anything people want to discuss? The table is open for new discussions | 20:02 |
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| nkrinner | not sure if this is worth discussing, but this crossed my mind recently | 20:03 |
| jokke_ | I really have nothing for today | 20:03 |
| Rockyg | nkrinner: well, better than napping -- go for it | 20:04 |
| Rockyg | Also, abviously, I have not gotten the next draft of error codes out yet. FYI. | 20:04 |
| nkrinner | for bugs we have the tag docimpact tag, which automatically notifies the doc team about changes that might affect them. do we want something like this for logs too? | 20:05 |
| Rockyg | Oh, yes, please! I started it, but going project by project, finding a bug that could use the tag, and adding it, was taking lots of time | 20:05 |
| Rockyg | If there's a more straightforward way, I'm all for it. | 20:06 |
| nkrinner | i was just browsing the code to see how and where to implement that. also trying to find out with who to talk about this. | 20:06 |
| nkrinner | so i suggest i will continue investigating this and report on it next week? | 20:06 |
| Rockyg | Sounds great | 20:07 |
| jokke_ | sounds good | 20:07 |
| nkrinner | so next week we hopefully see if it is worth the effort then. :-) | 20:07 |
| Rockyg | I think I was going the easy route with the tag "log" | 20:08 |
| Rockyg | nkrinner: I think it will be. Once it's available for ops folks, I think they will use it. Of course, that's also after educating them. | 20:08 |
| jokke_ | :) | 20:08 |
| nkrinner | yeah :-) | 20:09 |
| Rockyg | But, summit is soon. Wondering -- would it make sense to have a working session with ops folks just identifying, tagging and escalating log bugs? Sort of a log bug triage session? | 20:10 |
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| Rockyg | I also find it difficult to find "log" bugs because yuu can't do a cross-project search for key words | 20:11 |
| jokke_ | ++ | 20:11 |
| nkrinner | sadly i can't make it to vancouver | 20:11 |
| Rockyg | Darn! | 20:12 |
| Rockyg | If you ever make it to San Jose, I'll buy you a beer. | 20:12 |
| nkrinner | :-) | 20:12 |
| Rockyg | FYI. some infra and other folks are looking at phabricator as a possible replacement for storyboard/launchpad. Take a look and see if it is better | 20:13 |
| Rockyg | #topic Rambling | 20:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rambling (Meeting topic: log_wg)" | 20:14 | |
| nkrinner | thanks, will take a look | 20:14 |
| Rockyg | Just wanted to get in that ... | 20:14 |
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| Rockyg | Some more rambling. We have "log files" scattered across the cloud. some log "log messages", some log error output, some log HTTP stuff. | 20:15 |
| Rockyg | I''ve got a list. I want to make it a matrix. | 20:15 |
| Rockyg | default log name, location, type of messages logged, audience (ops, tenant ops, app admin, etc), etc | 20:16 |
| jokke_ | ok | 20:16 |
| Rockyg | I'm thinking this could help clarify the differences between the various messages for one | 20:16 |
| Rockyg | It could also provide a checklist for devs as to what type of message they really want to generate based on classification | 20:17 |
| jokke_ | yeah I think that would be a good idea | 20:18 |
| Rockyg | It would aid everyone from dev to enduser in tracking down information | 20:18 |
| nkrinner | it would help making developers more aware about other peoples log needs | 20:18 |
| Rockyg | Let's brainstorm on what the columns should be. Of course the first one is the log file itself. /there are about 80? I think. | 20:19 |
| Rockyg | And location seems to be good for the second | 20:19 |
| nkrinner | project/service the log belongs to | 20:20 |
| nkrinner | maybe | 20:20 |
| Rockyg | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XTncfK_droY8E-Uy2icVuU-z9ya38ZBK_ZIRvGfPOXc/edit?usp=sharing | 20:20 |
| Rockyg | #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XTncfK_droY8E-Uy2icVuU-z9ya38ZBK_ZIRvGfPOXc/edit?usp=sharing | 20:22 |
| Rockyg | viewable by? | 20:22 |
| nkrinner | i think that is the most important information | 20:22 |
| Rockyg | Audience? | 20:22 |
| jokke_ | I can see it at least | 20:23 |
| nkrinner | i think everything is only visible to admins? | 20:23 |
| Rockyg | Ops/Domain Ops/Tenant? | 20:23 |
| Rockyg | Well, all the vm log files are available to the tenant who spins up the vm | 20:23 |
| nkrinner | true | 20:24 |
| Rockyg | And if you have nested clouds, then the guy who controls the top of the provisioned cloud owns those cloud files | 20:24 |
| Rockyg | And who is supposed to use them, versus who can see them is where security issues happen | 20:25 |
| nkrinner | cloud users can do whatever they want with the logs they created i guess | 20:27 |
| Rockyg | Somewhere I had found a list that infra put together. Tryng to find it now. | 20:27 |
| Rockyg | Right. so it's a matter of what they have permission to create. It's the whole role thing. So I guess the question is: What is the scope of the Role? | 20:28 |
| nkrinner | i as a developer am mostly interested in what helps me debug issues with services and find all the infos i need in the log files. i have not really thought about user needs so far | 20:30 |
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| Rockyg | Ture. Devs think about what they need to develop and Ops/End Users think about what they need to check on health. and hackers think of what info can be used to break in. | 20:31 |
| Rockyg | So, Purpose of the log is a good thing to know. It helps to inform us who the users will be. | 20:32 |
| nkrinner | i see | 20:32 |
| nkrinner | purpose alse depends a lot on the log level i guess | 20:33 |
| Rockyg | Yes. Not all logs are for log messages. Some are for notifications, the housekeeping on RESTful APIs, tracebacks, etc. | 20:34 |
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| Rockyg | So, for instance, the Apache logs would get most/all API message logs, but then some of the project logs would also capture a log after processing the API response. | 20:35 |
| jokke_ | yeah and all the wsgi servers should log each request once to the service logs | 20:36 |
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| Rockyg | So what jokke_ just said leads me to think we should add a field for message type, like wsgi notifications, HTTP, etc? | 20:38 |
| nkrinner | ok | 20:39 |
| nkrinner | to be honest that is all valuable information i can currently imagine. what else woulde we need to know? maybe a general 'does its job'/'doesn't do its job' rating? | 20:40 |
| jokke_ | that could work | 20:40 |
| nkrinner | for example i am not so happy with some of the logs i have had to look at, but it might be it was only because it were log files of services i am not familiar with | 20:41 |
| Rockyg | That's a good idea. Rating its usefulness | 20:41 |
| nkrinner | i think keystone had some quite ugly logs, but then i usually don't touch keystone, so maybe i was simply not educated enought to read them | 20:42 |
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| jokke_ | nkrinner: make a note for us somewhere, example could be good idea | 20:42 |
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| Rockyg | nkrinner: you can put a comment or note on the spreadsheet, or add to the note I put on it. | 20:43 |
| nkrinner | jokke_: true. this is what i remember vaguely | 20:43 |
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| jokke_ | because if the logs on some specific services looks non intuitive, that's perhaps something we could affect | 20:44 |
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| nkrinner | i have to look at it again, maybe i blamed the wrong service :-/ | 20:44 |
| Rockyg | Precisely. Or, more to the point, get them to be more precise;-) | 20:45 |
| Rockyg | So, I think getting this started is a good thing. Let me see if I can find that list of log files again to propagate the first column. Once we have that, we can announce to the ml for comments, concerns, help filling in. | 20:47 |
| nkrinner | yes, i think it is a good start | 20:48 |
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| Rockyg | I think I'm also going to add a earliest release column for when the file first appears in OpenStack.. Optional, so last. | 20:49 |
| Rockyg | Gee. anything to get out of editing that feakin' spec ;-) | 20:49 |
| Rockyg | Jeez, just thought of another tool that ops guys would love for OpenStack. A log registry. If a new log is spun up, oslo has a library call that registers the log in a db or some such. | 20:51 |
| nkrinner | i think logs should be known and collected automatically anyway | 20:52 |
| jokke_ | Rockyg: automatic log finder would probably not work with syslog | 20:53 |
| Rockyg | nkrinner: you would think, but right now, it doesn't happen. Each project generates what it thinks it needs in the places it has decided upon. Wouldn't it be nice to have a central registry? | 20:53 |
| Rockyg | jokke_ don't want a finder, want a register | 20:54 |
| Rockyg | then devs could find logs they need, too. | 20:54 |
| nkrinner | hm. i think we have a tool for that already, let me check | 20:54 |
| Rockyg | Kind of like the murano app catalog, but for logs | 20:54 |
| nkrinner | it is a custom bash script, i think it is maintained manually | 20:56 |
| Rockyg | then that could be fed into logstash or whatever, with rules and create a customized best of collection of the distributed log files. | 20:56 |
| Rockyg | And if we know the type of log, that could help us determine how persistent it needs to be, also. | 20:57 |
| Rockyg | Some interesting thoughts. But that said, we're near the end. | 20:57 |
| Rockyg | #action nkrinner to look into tagging bugs. | 20:57 |
| jokke_ | yeah ... I've been thinking also, should we start log aggregator project to the OS or is there something doing that already | 20:58 |
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| nkrinner | i know someone working on a logstash implementation afaik. maybe i have some news next week | 20:58 |
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| jokke_ | nkrinner: sounds good, keep us posted | 20:58 |
| Rockyg | I found a launchpac query for log bugs from Tom Fifield: https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field. | 20:58 |
| Rockyg | bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.structural_subscriber=&field.tag=log&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.has_cve.used=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.affects_me.used=&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_branches.used=&field.has_branches=on&field.has_no_branches.used=&field.has_no_branches=on&field.has_blueprints.used=&field.has_blueprints=on&field.has_no_blueprints.used=&field.has_no_blueprints=on&search=Search | 20:58 |
| Rockyg | It's supposed to find any bug tagged with "log" ? | 20:59 |
| jokke_ | ouch | 20:59 |
| Rockyg | Yeah. But, you work with whatch got. | 20:59 |
| Rockyg | It's a start. | 20:59 |
| Rockyg | so, Thanks everyone. a working session is a good session. | 20:59 |
| Rockyg | 3endmeeting | 21:00 |
| jokke_ | yeah, and it's time ... thanks both of you ... good discussion today | 21:00 |
| Rockyg | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 22 21:00:07 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/log_wg/2015/log_wg.2015-04-22-20.01.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/log_wg/2015/log_wg.2015-04-22-20.01.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/log_wg/2015/log_wg.2015-04-22-20.01.log.html | 21:00 |
| nkrinner | cool thanks, see you next week | 21:00 |
| jokke_ | nite | 21:00 |
| Rockyg | Pleasant dreams! | 21:00 |
| nkrinner | see you | 21:00 |
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| Rockyg | next week! same bat time. same bat station | 21:00 |
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