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| ajo | hi :) | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| ajo | ping irenab, aveiga , matrohon | 14:00 |
| ajo | ping sc68cal | 14:00 |
| vhoward- | hey | 14:00 |
| aveiga | hello | 14:01 |
| matrohon | hi | 14:01 |
| cbits | Hi | 14:01 |
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| ajo | around for the QoS meeting? | 14:01 |
| cbouch | hi | 14:01 |
| aveiga | absolutely | 14:01 |
| ajo | great :) | 14:01 |
| vhoward- | yeah ajo | 14:02 |
| vhoward- | ;) | 14:02 |
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| moshele | hi | 14:02 |
| ajo | I'll wait 1 more minute to see if irenab is able to join | 14:02 |
| ajo | I wanted some feedback from her regarding design :) | 14:02 |
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| ajo | ok, I guess we can start, and I'll leave the specific design topics for the ends | 14:03 |
| ajo | end | 14:03 |
| ajo | #startmeeting neutron_qos | 14:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 21 14:03:34 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ajo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)" | 14:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_qos' | 14:03 |
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| moshele | ajo: I can send ireanb sms | 14:03 |
| ajo | moshele, thanks :) | 14:03 |
| ajo | #topic Announcements | 14:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)" | 14:04 | |
| sc68cal | ajo: pong | 14:04 |
| ajo | hi sc68cal :) | 14:04 |
| ajo | #link #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-liberty-qos-code-sprint | 14:04 |
| ajo | woops :) double link :) | 14:04 |
| ajo | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-liberty-qos-code-sprint | 14:04 |
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| ajo | I guess most of you are already aware of the qos code sprint Red Hat is proposing, feel free to signup if you believe you can come, or collaborate remotely. | 14:05 |
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| ajo | but, we have specs to get merged, and a lot to agree before a code sprint can happen :) | 14:05 |
| ajo | any question about it? :) | 14:06 |
| ajo | ok, let's move on | 14:06 |
| moshele | ajo: irenab will join shortly | 14:06 |
| irenab | hi | 14:06 |
| ajo | hi irenab !! :) | 14:06 |
| irenab | sorry for being late | 14:07 |
| ajo | np :) | 14:07 |
| ajo | just in time | 14:07 |
| ajo | #topic updated spec | 14:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "updated spec (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)" | 14:07 | |
| ajo | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/88599/ | 14:07 |
| ajo | I have updated sc68cal spec, with a few ideas about splitting the initially proposed model | 14:07 |
| ajo | into QoSProfiles, composed of QoSPolicies | 14:08 |
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| ajo | for ratecontrol/bandwidth limiting, may be it's too much, but I wanted to make the models/api to grow without big changes, or breaking backward compatibility of the API ends in the future. | 14:08 |
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| aveiga | ajo: what's the problem you're attempting to solve with that setup? | 14:08 |
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| ajo | aveiga, for example, there were concerns in previous models about applying several profiles to one port/network | 14:09 |
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| ajo | aveiga, for example, you could like to mark packets + bandwidth limit them... | 14:09 |
| ajo | or you may want (in the future), to be able to write QoSPolicy rules which target traffic selectively | 14:09 |
| sc68cal | ajo: cbits and vhoward- from Comcast are also from Comcast and interested in the QoS work | 14:10 |
| ajo | for example... tcp.port=80 | 14:10 |
| ajo | aveiga, does it sound reasonable? | 14:10 |
| aveiga | ajo: I see where you want to go with this | 14:10 |
| ajo | aveiga, something like security groups, but for applying QoS policies to different types of traffic | 14:10 |
| aveiga | you can have a slective overload of that setup, where ports on tenant x by default have forced ratelimiting, but maybe they also want to add a mark for some traffic | 14:11 |
| irenab | ajo: on same neutron port, right? | 14:11 |
| ajo | irenab correct, | 14:11 |
| aveiga | the fun part is the collapsing logic, because if they're doing different things it's fine, but some things are one property only or may be mutually exclusive | 14:11 |
| ajo | exactly | 14:11 |
| aveiga | I suppose that's an implementation detail though | 14:11 |
| aveiga | we need a way to provide the feedback on failure, though | 14:12 |
| ajo | I was going to get into that, we may need some sort of logic to check we can add an extra rule that works with previous ones in the profile | 14:12 |
| irenab | aviega: agree, and this may sometimes depend on QoS backend implementation | 14:12 |
| aveiga | it would be a poor UX to allow them to try setting two DSCP marks against the same port withotu a way to tell them why it won't work or which one was actually applied | 14:12 |
| ajo | aveiga, but for a first iteration, it seems only ratecontrol/bandwidth limiting is getting accepted by neutron-drivers (to control how we design/grow the feature), | 14:13 |
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| aveiga | :( | 14:13 |
| ajo | aveiga, anyway, I'm all for it, if we finish the first steps, | 14:13 |
| aveiga | ok | 14:13 |
| ajo | let's go ahead and start developing the U/S dscp part | 14:13 |
| irenab | ajo: what is your intention regarding ref implementation? | 14:13 |
| ajo | it's probably not going to be too complicated with comcast code + the bare bones in place | 14:13 |
| aveiga | as long as we can get the api nailed down, we can port our stuff over and merge later | 14:14 |
| ajo | aveiga, sounds good, may be, if you want you can work in a follow up spec to the current one, to extend with dscp, so we know how it looks | 14:14 |
| vhoward- | yes data model and api would like to see that solidified in spec, we can help | 14:15 |
| irenab | I think if API will open enough, different plugins may have various options to support, sometimes richer than ref implementation | 14:15 |
| ajo | irenab, about ref implementaion, I have another point in the meeting, give me 1 min :) | 14:15 |
| ajo | irenab, I agree | 14:15 |
| vhoward- | +1 irenab | 14:15 |
| ajo | that comes to another question, | 14:15 |
| ajo | we're defining the bandwidth limiting fields, | 14:16 |
| ajo | but do you believe we should accept, other fields? | 14:16 |
| irenab | ajo: at API level? | 14:16 |
| ajo | I guess, accepting different fields without control could lead to non interoperable policy rules | 14:17 |
| ajo | irenab, talking about the parameters dict: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/88599/7/specs/liberty/qos-api-extension.rst | 14:17 |
| ajo | line 125 | 14:17 |
| ajo | I have defined as much as I can think of, but for example, max_latency_ms can't be applied to ovs (AFAIK) but it was proposed on previous versions of the spec. | 14:18 |
| ajo | sc68cal, do you recall why? | 14:18 |
| irenab | ajo: In my opinion there is a difference if we require this at API level or at the implementation/db level | 14:19 |
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| ajo | irenab, what do you mean | 14:20 |
| ajo | ? | 14:20 |
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| sc68cal | ajo: That was proposed in the spec for the linux bridge implementation for rate limiting | 14:20 |
| ajo | ah, ok API / vs impl | 14:20 |
| sc68cal | since it was using tc as the driver | 14:20 |
| aveiga | it might be a good idea to abstract out the api calls as high as we can | 14:20 |
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| ajo | aha, sc68cal , so tc supports latency settings | 14:20 |
| sc68cal | ajo: yes | 14:21 |
| irenab | There are validations that can be done at API level, so from API perspective, I think there should be ‘key’, ‘val’ pairs | 14:21 |
| sc68cal | aveiga: the problem with making this all abstact is how do we validate | 14:21 |
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| aveiga | yup | 14:21 |
| ajo | I agree with aveiga , we may abstract the parameters as much as we can, but... | 14:21 |
| irenab | but where the implementation is involved , we can check the supported ‘keys’ only | 14:21 |
| ajo | every implementation is a bit different | 14:21 |
| ajo | irenab, that makes sense, | 14:21 |
| ajo | may be we can check the default keys, and leave room for non-default ones | 14:22 |
| matrohon | backend should report what fields they support? | 14:22 |
| ajo | so every vendor could leverage extra capabilities | 14:22 |
| irenab | in my opinion we should not close API for only current known list | 14:22 |
| irenab | matrohon: +1 | 14:22 |
| ajo | irenab, ok, we may need to check that with neutron core/drivers to see if it's ok, are we doing such thing in other places? | 14:22 |
| ajo | matrohon, or we can pass parameters to backend for checking | 14:23 |
| irenab | I gues extra_dhcp_opts are similar in this sense | 14:23 |
| matrohon | it looks like extension suppport for plugins | 14:23 |
| ajo | aha | 14:23 |
| ajo | #action ajo allow extra settings in the parameters dictionary to be checked by the plugin/specific implementation. | 14:24 |
| matrohon | ajo : calling a backend during a transaction should be avoided | 14:24 |
| ajo | matrohon, true | 14:24 |
| ajo | in that case, we can check available parameters with backend at start | 14:25 |
| aveiga | extensions could be interesting, is it possible to pass an object as the value in a k/v pair? That way you might be able to provide, say, min and max bandwidth and min/max latency in the "bandwidth" key | 14:25 |
| ajo | but ok, I guess this is all implementation detail we can discuss over the spec. | 14:25 |
| matrohon | ajo : +1 | 14:26 |
| ajo | is it ok to discuss the details over the spec? | 14:26 |
| ajo | thanks matrohon | 14:26 |
| cbits | ajo +1 on flexable and letting the backend define the validation. | 14:26 |
| ajo | #topic reference implementation | 14:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "reference implementation (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)" | 14:26 | |
| ajo | (irenab, I had another point later for the service-plugin vs mechanism-driver or other ways...) | 14:27 |
| irenab | ajo: ok :-) | 14:27 |
| ajo | about reference implementation, I guess it should go in ml2-ovs, I know irenab you were interested in ml2-sriov, not sure if it's yet the case | 14:27 |
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| ajo | sc68cal, in the previous spec, there was somebody proposing ml2-linuxbridge which I guess makes sense too if we have people willing to do it | 14:28 |
| irenab | ajo: I think SR-IOV is in moshele hands now | 14:28 |
| ajo | moshele +1 | 14:28 |
| ajo | :) | 14:28 |
| sc68cal | ajo: yes, so we would have a ml2-lb and ml2-ovs implementation ready for revival | 14:28 |
| vhoward- | we were interested in ml2-ovs also | 14:28 |
| vhoward- | the mech driver | 14:29 |
| sc68cal | I think there was also a ml2-ovs rate limit impl. floating around too | 14:29 |
| moshele | ajo: I will do the ml2-sriov | 14:29 |
| irenab | waht QoS functionality is going to be implemented? only rate limit? | 14:29 |
| ajo | irenab, I recall your design where a few parts could be reused across several ml2-agents, if I didn't get it wrong | 14:29 |
| irenab | ajo: right. The idea was to extend existing l2 agents in a reusable way | 14:30 |
| ajo | at least ratelimit, yes | 14:30 |
| ajo | that's the recommendation from neutron drivers | 14:30 |
| ajo | and PTL | 14:30 |
| ajo | if we put testing in place, + a good design, we have a good amount of work ahead, | 14:30 |
| ajo | but I'm all for writing more policy types if we finish early | 14:31 |
| vhoward- | irenab: no we are looking to mark traffic not just rate limit | 14:31 |
| matrohon | irenab, ajo : are speaking about a modular agent revival? | 14:31 |
| irenab | matrohon: related to this, right | 14:32 |
| cbits | We are also looking to filter traffice based on DSCP marking | 14:32 |
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| moshele | ajo: for the ml2 extension_manager we will need this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162648/ change as well | 14:32 |
| vhoward- | we are looking to blueprint ml2-ovs mech driver for qos so we will keep you all in the loop on that to what cbits said | 14:32 |
| irenab | cbits: with upstream OVS impementation? | 14:32 |
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| cbits | yes | 14:33 |
| ajo | moshele, It looks like it eventually get merged as it's fixing a bug, right? | 14:33 |
| ajo | it will | 14:33 |
| irenab | from the API perspective, it makes ense to have all these options (and maybe more) available from the beginning, while only subset can be implemented in the first iteration | 14:34 |
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| ajo | irenab, which options? | 14:34 |
| moshele | ajo: yes it was freezed because of kilo, but we will push it now | 14:34 |
| irenab | mentioned by cbit | 14:34 |
| ajo | cbits, ack :) | 14:35 |
| irenab | DCSP marking,.. | 14:35 |
| ajo | I missed cbit commit about DSCP filtering | 14:35 |
| sc68cal | cbits: that's out of scope | 14:35 |
| aveiga | filtering is an SG change, not a QoS change | 14:35 |
| ajo | it's related, looks more like a security group change, correct | 14:35 |
| aveiga | or rather, port security | 14:35 |
| sc68cal | that's an extension that you guys to the sec group API, that you're going to have to carry | 14:35 |
| cbits | cool | 14:36 |
| ajo | they could propose an extension to the security groups API to have a dscp field U/S | 14:36 |
| ajo | #topic access control / ACLs | 14:36 |
| cbits | ajo +1 | 14:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "access control / ACLs (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)" | 14:36 | |
| ajo | in previous "pre-meeting" we discussed about access control to QoS profiles | 14:37 |
| sc68cal | ajo: extension of an extension. yaaay. :) | 14:37 |
| ajo | sc68cal or just update the extension :) | 14:37 |
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| irenab | ajo: kevin updated the RBAC spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/132661/ to be generic | 14:37 |
| ajo | we believe in the feature we could leverage the design of RBAC to control QoS profiles access by tenants | 14:37 |
| ajo | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/132661 | 14:37 |
| ajo | yeah, I saw it, great news :) | 14:38 |
| ajo | I need to read it through, I didn't have time yet | 14:38 |
| sc68cal | I think that's very good news, but let's not stretch ourselves too much for first iteration | 14:38 |
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| ajo | but, for this cycle, there was a genera agreement, that having the admin controling the policies/rules setting to ports/networks itself | 14:38 |
| irenab | ajo: It looks suitable for managing QoS profiles | 14:38 |
| ajo | and disallow it on tenants for now | 14:38 |
| sc68cal | ajo: admin/owner? | 14:39 |
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| ajo | I'd say admin only for now, but it's just a matter of configuring the policies | 14:39 |
| ajo | for example, you don't want tenants randomly making bandwidth changes to modify a setting done by admin | 14:39 |
| sc68cal | ajo: true, but we can do checks for if the network is shared | 14:40 |
| ajo | but, if anybody needs a change on that, they only need to modify /etc/neutron/policy.json | 14:40 |
| sc68cal | then disallow | 14:40 |
| sc68cal | ajo: good point. | 14:40 |
| ajo | sc68cal, we can think of probably common defaults, but everybody is going to make different uses, I guess | 14:41 |
| ajo | some operators may not want to rely on admin to set profiles | 14:41 |
| sc68cal | ajo: true, but you make a good point, policy.json is easy to change | 14:41 |
| ajo | and some operators may not want tenants to modify / set new profiles, I guess | 14:41 |
| sc68cal | ajo: and hey, it's actually getting some documentation, finally! | 14:41 |
| ajo | sc68cal, we could provide instructions on how to do it | 14:41 |
| ajo | sc68cal, really? :D :-) | 14:41 |
| ajo | that's good | 14:41 |
| ajo | ok | 14:42 |
| ajo | a tiny topic before we jump into a bigger one | 14:42 |
| ajo | #topic ratelimiting vs ratecontrol | 14:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ratelimiting vs ratecontrol (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)" | 14:42 | |
| ajo | I was thinking that ratecontrol "type" could be used for both min/max rate if I'm not missing anything | 14:42 |
| ajo | not sure if we need separate types to define traffic guarantees | 14:43 |
| ajo | or just have a "min" field, specifying what's the minimum bandwidth we're providing on a port | 14:44 |
| ajo | does it sounds reasonable/unreasonable? | 14:44 |
| sc68cal | little fuzzy on difference | 14:44 |
| sc68cal | care to educate? | 14:44 |
| ajo | from the ovs/linux-htb point of view, having it together, makes the "min" parameter meaningful, and we can control priorities over ports/bandwidth.. | 14:45 |
| ajo | ok, I see no -1's at least :-), I will change it on the spec, but feel free to complain or ask me to change it back | 14:46 |
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| ajo | let's move on | 14:46 |
| ajo | #topic service-plugin, or simple mechanism driver | 14:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "service-plugin, or simple mechanism driver (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)" | 14:46 | |
| ajo | irenab, do you want to lead this one? | 14:46 |
| irenab | ajo: ok | 14:46 |
| ajo | thank you :) | 14:47 |
| irenab | the question is if the QoS profile/policy management should get its own service or be part of the Core plugin | 14:47 |
| irenab | I tend to see it belongs to service plugin, potentially with different providers | 14:48 |
| sc68cal | Not sure if this is relevant, but I'd say we should get the API extension into core then have our own repo to rapidly iterate | 14:48 |
| sc68cal | similar to all the *aaS repos | 14:48 |
| irenab | sc68cal: thats what I had in mind | 14:49 |
| sc68cal | ok, so guess I'm in the service plugin camp | 14:49 |
| ajo | Well, I'm not 100% convinced we need a separate repo here, at least for the start | 14:49 |
| irenab | the extension definition can be hosted in the same repo as well | 14:49 |
| ajo | I'm happy about the design advantages that come with making it a service plugin, | 14:50 |
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| ajo | and it's tightly coupled to the reference implementation of the ovs-agent which lives on tree | 14:50 |
| sc68cal | irenab: are you sure? last I checked the core repo still had the extensions for all the *aas stuff | 14:50 |
| sc68cal | or was that just a procedural thing, where they hadn't split them out yet | 14:50 |
| irenab | sc68cal: not for new introduced ‘services’, like l2gw | 14:50 |
| matrohon | since it apply to core resources, I feel it's more in the scope of Core plugin extension | 14:51 |
| ajo | matrohon, that's my feeling too | 14:51 |
| irenab | I guess its just easier to maintain both api and impementation together, but do not have strong opinion where to put it. | 14:51 |
| ajo | irenab, sc68cal , could you enumerate advantages of making it a service plugin instead? | 14:51 |
| sc68cal | ajo: Ideally it'd allow us to iterate in our own repo, have our own cores and such | 14:52 |
| ajo | we're basically setting parameters of the networks and ports | 14:52 |
| sc68cal | ajo: the trouble is - as you pointed out, the agents | 14:52 |
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| ajo | sc68cal, yes, but I believe it's going to become an important feature for many telcos/operators, and it modifies parameters of basic resources like ports, | 14:53 |
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| irenab | ajo: I think mostof the advanced services eventually apply to core resources | 14:53 |
| ajo | I'm not sure if that fits on the category of an advanced service living on a seperate repository | 14:53 |
| ajo | irenab, well, they make use of them... | 14:54 |
| ajo | but do they modify them? | 14:54 |
| ajo | may be FwAAs modifies routers, | 14:54 |
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| irenab | but all the policies/profiles management is quite stand alone logic | 14:54 |
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| sc68cal | Let' | 14:54 |
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| sc68cal | Worst case we can do a little research on the service plugin | 14:54 |
| irenab | we eventually map port to some profile UUID | 14:54 |
| sc68cal | right now most of the existing code ties right into the core | 14:55 |
| ajo | irenab, sc68cal , matrohon , what do you think about looping in cores in next neutron meeting, and see how they think about it | 14:55 |
| ajo | ? | 14:55 |
| sc68cal | ajo: good idea | 14:55 |
| sc68cal | or a ML thread | 14:55 |
| ajo | ML should work too | 14:55 |
| sc68cal | ml thread might be better | 14:55 |
| ajo | probably better | 14:55 |
| ajo | sc68cal +1 | 14:55 |
| irenab | I would vote for service plugin for clean separation of concerns, quicker iterations | 14:55 |
| matrohon | you'll have to have a dedicated MD for the service plugin to be aware of any changes on a port/networks? | 14:56 |
| irenab | the recent spirit to spin every possible part out :-) | 14:56 |
| matrohon | armax introduced a registry mechanism that can be reused too | 14:56 |
| ajo | yes | 14:56 |
| irenab | matrohon: callback? | 14:56 |
| ajo | matrohon, the callbacks, right? | 14:56 |
| ajo | :D | 14:56 |
| sc68cal | irenab: agreed - we just have to figure out how to get the agents to work with the qos service with no code changes to core | 14:57 |
| matrohon | yep | 14:57 |
| ajo | sc68cal, fwaaS extends the l3-agent, reight? | 14:57 |
| matrohon | sc68al : this is the scope of the module agent work in progress... | 14:57 |
| irenab | we tried to solve it in some AgentExtension way | 14:57 |
| ajo | but I believe that way is not very sustainable | 14:57 |
| ajo | we may need extending the agents in a more dynamic way | 14:57 |
| sc68cal | ajo: I'd have to check how they do that | 14:57 |
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| matrohon | currently, there is no way to extend agent (LB or OVS) | 14:58 |
| sc68cal | i know vpnaas just runs a whole new agent that inherits from the l3 agent | 14:58 |
| sc68cal | it | 14:58 |
| sc68cal | is nasty | 14:58 |
| ajo | yes, matrohon , correct | 14:58 |
| matrohon | the l3agent is easily extensible since kilo | 14:58 |
| ajo | ok | 14:58 |
| matrohon | but not the l2agent | 14:58 |
| ajo | let's talk about it in the mail thread | 14:58 |
| ajo | 1 min left :) | 14:58 |
| irenab | matrohon: sounds about the right time to make a change :-) | 14:58 |
| matrohon | irenab : +1000 | 14:59 |
| ajo | my opinion is more on keeping it to the core, but I'll make an impartial thread start, so we can discuss freely | 14:59 |
| ajo | ok | 14:59 |
| matrohon | rosellab has been very active on the agent, but none of her improvment has merge in kilo | 14:59 |
| sc68cal | core is tough, they're splitting reference from neutron | 14:59 |
| ajo | I also had a request from salv-orlando , to share our proposed API with operators and telcos | 14:59 |
| ajo | to get feedback | 14:59 |
| sc68cal | for the neutron-lib work | 14:59 |
| ajo | since people complains generally about neutron API usability | 14:59 |
| irenab | ajo: souds great, the earlier the better | 15:00 |
| * sc68cal trying to get as many words in 60 seconds | 15:00 | |
| ajo | :D :D | 15:00 |
| salv-orlando | it's not a strict requirement. but it is to avoid previous mistakes | 15:00 |
| salv-orlando | like the one we made with load balancing apis | 15:00 |
| ajo | salv-orlando +1 | 15:00 |
| sc68cal | ++ | 15:00 |
| * sc68cal pokes aveiga | 15:00 | |
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| irenab | ajo: any work items for next week? | 15:00 |
| ajo | ok, I believe we shall free the channel | 15:00 |
| aveiga | sorry, catching up post power outage | 15:00 |
| sc68cal | aveiga: you're our telco guinea pig | 15:01 |
| ajo | let's discuss over #openstack-neutron-qos | 15:01 |
| ajo | #endmeeting | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 21 15:01:20 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_qos/2015/neutron_qos.2015-04-21-14.03.html | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_qos/2015/neutron_qos.2015-04-21-14.03.txt | 15:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_qos/2015/neutron_qos.2015-04-21-14.03.log.html | 15:01 |
| ajo | sorry, I didn't want to take over the meeting channel | 15:01 |
| vhoward- | thanks for running | 15:01 |
| cbits | cheers! | 15:02 |
| ajo | if you have some time we can think of next work items on the -qos channel | 15:02 |
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| ajo | thankss everybody! ;) | 15:02 |
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| thinrichs | Hi all | 17:02 |
| thinrichs | #startmeeting CongressTeamMeeting | 17:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 21 17:02:27 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is thinrichs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)" | 17:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'congressteammeeting' | 17:02 |
| thinrichs | Walking to another room…. | 17:03 |
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| thinrichs | Anyone here? | 17:04 |
| jwy | hi | 17:05 |
| thinrichs | jwy: hi | 17:05 |
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| thinrichs | Let's do some status updates and hope others join us. | 17:05 |
| thinrichs | #topic status | 17:05 |
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| thinrichs | jwy: want to go first? | 17:06 |
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| jwy | policy creation ui has been merged. everyone - please try it out and open bugs if you find any, and let me know if you have any other feedback/suggestions | 17:07 |
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| jwy | Rajdeep's data sources status table has also been merged | 17:08 |
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| jwy | shows up on the data sources page | 17:08 |
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| thinrichs | jwy: any progress on writing tests for the rule-creation code? Actually—are there usually tests for horizon code? | 17:09 |
| jwy | thinrichs: there are usually tests for the horizon code. writing those next thing | 17:10 |
| thinrichs | Great. | 17:10 |
| thinrichs | It's good that we have solid coverage of the API in Horizon now. | 17:10 |
| thinrichs | Consumption is really important for policy. | 17:11 |
| jwy | and Yali's func spec is about done (#link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/168539/) | 17:11 |
| jwy | for policy abstraction | 17:11 |
| jwy | that sums it up for the ui stuff | 17:11 |
| thinrichs | jwy: Yali has been working on that for a while. Think she'd be interested in presenting the idea during the design session at the summit? | 17:11 |
| thinrichs | I'm thinking a 5 minute preso. | 17:11 |
| jwy | thinrichs: she won't be able to make it to the summit, unfortunately. she said one of her colleagues who is familiar with the idea will be there. i can ask if he can talk about it | 17:12 |
| jwy | ooh one more thing - | 17:12 |
| thinrichs | I think that's a good idea. | 17:12 |
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| jwy | i talked with someone from murano-dashboard about what they're doing with the code now that they're officially part of openstack | 17:13 |
| jwy | he said they're not sure, but he proposed the topic for the horizon design summit | 17:13 |
| thinrichs | That's a good thought—what do we do with devstack/horizon/etc. contributions now? | 17:14 |
| jwy | right | 17:14 |
| thinrichs | Let's make sure we look into that, esp. at the summit. | 17:14 |
| jwy | there was brief discussions in one of the horizon irc meetings about keeping the horizon code for new projects in separate repos still and having both horizon and project reviews required for patches | 17:14 |
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| jwy | nothing decided yet | 17:14 |
| jwy | ok i'm done now | 17:15 |
| thinrichs | Thanks! | 17:15 |
| thinrichs | A few things from me then. | 17:15 |
| thinrichs | We'll tag kilo-3 today with Janet's UI commit. It's the right time-frame, and we haven't found any major bugs. | 17:16 |
| thinrichs | And then at the end of the month we'll do our official release. | 17:16 |
| thinrichs | We're still in feature freeze, but soon I expect us to branch and start letting features into master again. | 17:17 |
| thinrichs | Once we branch, bugfixes will need to go both into master and into the branch. | 17:17 |
| thinrichs | I'll send out details on the ML once that happens. | 17:17 |
| thinrichs | I think that's mainly it for me. | 17:19 |
| thinrichs | Anyone else have a status update? | 17:19 |
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| thinrichs | I know ayip has been fixing a bug or two and working on the HA feature. | 17:20 |
| thinrichs | stevenldt has been continuing to work on action-execution. | 17:20 |
| thinrichs | We also have an early contributor working on the Heat datasource driver. | 17:21 |
| thinrichs | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/175182/ | 17:21 |
| thinrichs | Zhenzan is working on a bug in the policy engine: | 17:21 |
| thinrichs | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/175695/ | 17:22 |
| thinrichs | John Strassner is continuing to improve the grammar for the datalog policy language. | 17:22 |
| thinrichs | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/174476/ | 17:22 |
| thinrichs | We're iterating through arosen's datasource notification patch as well (to enable on-demand datasource driver polling). | 17:23 |
| thinrichs | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/169526/ | 17:23 |
| thinrichs | All told, good stuff here at the end. | 17:23 |
| thinrichs | Okay, it seems that people are busy this week, so we'll end here. | 17:24 |
| thinrichs | My one request: use the extra 30 minutes to test. :) | 17:24 |
| thinrichs | jwy: anything else? | 17:24 |
| jwy | thinrichs: nope | 17:25 |
| thinrichs | Thanks all! See you next week. | 17:25 |
| thinrichs | #endmeeting | 17:25 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:26 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 21 17:25:58 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:26 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2015/congressteammeeting.2015-04-21-17.02.html | 17:26 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2015/congressteammeeting.2015-04-21-17.02.txt | 17:26 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2015/congressteammeeting.2015-04-21-17.02.log.html | 17:26 |
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| briancurtin | #startmeeting python-openstacksdk | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 21 19:00:25 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is briancurtin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'python_openstacksdk' | 19:00 |
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| briancurtin | if you're around for the SDK meeting, say hi | 19:00 |
| sigmavirus24 | o/ | 19:00 |
| sigmavirus24 | erm "hi" | 19:00 |
| briancurtin | (or if i got timezones wrong, shame me...i'm in CA today) | 19:00 |
| etoews | o/ | 19:01 |
| dtroyer | o/ | 19:01 |
| briancurtin | two things on the agenda to discuss and then whatever comes up after that: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/PythonOpenStackSDK#Agenda_for_2015-04-21_1900_UTC | 19:01 |
| stevelle | o/ | 19:01 |
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| terrylhowe | o/ | 19:02 |
| briancurtin | #topic wait_for_status | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "wait_for_status (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:02 | |
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| briancurtin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/174980/ | 19:02 |
| etoews | terrylhowe: did you have a chance to read my answers to your comments? | 19:02 |
| terrylhowe | no | 19:02 |
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| terrylhowe | sorry, lots of meetings lately | 19:03 |
| etoews | i understand ;) | 19:03 |
| etoews | wanna take a minute now? | 19:03 |
| baffle | o/ | 19:03 |
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| terrylhowe | yeh | 19:03 |
| briancurtin | etoews: fwiw i dont like server_ -- i think value is the best we're going to get to not shadow and not do other weird-ish things | 19:03 |
| etoews | ya. server_ kind of seemed like an abuse of trailing underscore. | 19:04 |
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| dtroyer | just looking at it for the first time here, 'value' is not too jarring, especially once you see it as a pattern everywhere. | 19:05 |
| briancurtin | i dont really love value, but after applying a lot of stuff around the services, having a consistent name reads pretty well | 19:05 |
| briancurtin | yep | 19:05 |
| * dhellmann lurks while continuing to try to send release notes | 19:05 | |
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| terrylhowe | The ‘value’ thing is so generic, but I don’t have a better suggestion atm not a big deal | 19:06 |
| terrylhowe | anyway, none of those comments are huge, more topics of discussion just like doing a wait_for method vs wait_for_status | 19:07 |
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| briancurtin | i'd love to call it resource, but then we run into shadowing potential again (merely potential, since calls into the resource module are moving out of the proxy classes and into the proxy base) | 19:08 |
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| etoews | but we'll go with value for now | 19:09 |
| briancurtin | it just wouldn't work immediately. if it turns out to be something we want to change, that's probably fine. value for now seems like the best bet | 19:09 |
| etoews | what does everyone think of resource.Resource._wait_for_status() | 19:09 |
| briancurtin | why would it be private? | 19:10 |
| etoews | read #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/174980/4/openstack/resource.py | 19:10 |
| * briancurtin reading | 19:10 | |
| etoews | my Apr 20 5:07 PM comment | 19:10 |
| dtroyer | FWIW, we're planning to sketch out a top-level OSC command that will do exactly this so writing status loops in shell is no longer a thing, so I'd love to be able to eventually use this method | 19:11 |
| terrylhowe | makeing wait_for a method of Resource makes a lot of sense if we made it generic, not so stuck on the status attribute | 19:11 |
| terrylhowe | I think I’m fine leaving it out of the class if we are going to have it associated with the attribute status | 19:12 |
| briancurtin | etoews: i think i said something earlier about it being a function, which I think handles this purpose better than it does to make it private | 19:12 |
| etoews | terrylhowe: did you read my last comment on resource.py | 19:12 |
| terrylhowe | yeh | 19:12 |
| terrylhowe | oh, I thought you were talking about something else, hold on | 19:13 |
| briancurtin | iirc libcloud has it as a method but it's on compute-specific classes, not in the base. waiting on status is too specific to be in the base imo | 19:14 |
| briancurtin | (two abbreviations in one message, everyone takes a drink) | 19:14 |
| terrylhowe | yeh, I’m for leaving it out of the class | 19:14 |
| etoews | okay | 19:15 |
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| etoews | #agreed resource.wait_for_status() | 19:15 |
| etoews | terrylhowe: did you still want to discuss a generic wait_for() ? | 19:16 |
| terrylhowe | nope | 19:17 |
| etoews | okay. we'll just go with resource.wait_for_status() then. | 19:17 |
| briancurtin | #topic common get method | 19:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "common get method (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:17 | |
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| briancurtin | so now that the deletes are through, there's an implementation of get at #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/164351/ | 19:18 |
| etoews | terrylhowe: i also wanted to ask you about your comment on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/174980/4/openstack/tests/unit/test_resource.py but that can wait until after or in #openstack-sdks | 19:18 |
| briancurtin | can talk about that now if you want, i jumped the gun | 19:18 |
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| etoews | terrylhowe: can you give me a quick idea of what you had in mind? | 19:19 |
| terrylhowe | I was just thinking make some FakeResource in the test file so the test isn’t pulling in stuff it doesn’t need /that might change | 19:19 |
| briancurtin | yeah, i think test_resource should probably not involve other actual resources and just build on the FakeResource that is already there, or something else like that | 19:21 |
| terrylhowe | not a big deal to me, but seems like it might be safer to not have a dependency on v2.server in test_resource | 19:21 |
| etoews | okay. i'll look into that. thx. | 19:21 |
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| etoews | onto the common get method | 19:22 |
| briancurtin | back to the common get -- perhaps i should break out that change into one or more other changes because that review creates a path that would remove the need to have find at all by leveraging kwargs passed into a list method, and sending in the appropriate query name/value to do the find | 19:23 |
| terrylhowe | On the base get method, I really want a get method that does an HTTP get | 19:23 |
| briancurtin | terrylhowe: and it does that, but it handles the resource-specific logic for finding what you've sent as well. if you give it something that does exist, it just does a get and gets it. if you give it some ID or name that you want to find, it'll find it (or fail to find it) -- having to do two different methods to attempt to retreieve one thing doesn't feel | 19:25 |
| briancurtin | too nice, since you then have to do a try/except dance | 19:25 |
| dtroyer | I think there is value in having simplified methods for simple things and a fallback to the generalized methond (find*) when required. | 19:25 |
| dtroyer | so a simple get() in parallel with a flexible find() seems good to me | 19:25 |
| dtroyer | even though they are both GET requests under the hood | 19:26 |
| briancurtin | dtroyer: as in get uses find, or that get only gets (or fails to get) a singular resource? | 19:26 |
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| dtroyer | I wouldn't have get() use find(), I'd make them peers | 19:26 |
| briancurtin | i guess i'll have to look back into how to do that. we can't really make a generic find because every resource does something very different, between query params and filters, but i'll restructure the proposal to handle it with both being separate | 19:28 |
| etoews | what's the use case for find? to find by name? | 19:28 |
| etoews | it's a bit weird to me that the docs say "Find a resource by its name or id." | 19:29 |
| dtroyer | that's one, also finding substring/regex matches (where possible, or done locally from list return) | 19:29 |
| etoews | if i have the id, i'm going to do a get | 19:29 |
| terrylhowe | find was modeled after the find in OSC | 19:29 |
| briancurtin | i dont really know the find case other than that it has existed in the past in other places, which is why i tried to handle it in get because you want to get a resource that may or may not exist | 19:29 |
| terrylhowe | it does a find by name_or_id that was the original intention at least | 19:29 |
| dtroyer | find() is generally more complicated, with possibly multiple server requests doe to name->id lookups in some cases | 19:30 |
| dtroyer | get() is (in my mind) basically requests.get() + auth and what else Transport adds | 19:30 |
| briancurtin | yeah, there's often no way to do a find without retrieving everything and filtering locally on the response, especially if you want to do substring/regex when it's not supported (which it mostly isnt from what i can tell) | 19:31 |
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| dtroyer | briancurtin: right, and we are strting to do that in OSC more and more | 19:31 |
| briancurtin | find is the method i think i've written and thrown away and rewritten 20 times in the last few months | 19:31 |
| terrylhowe | yes | 19:31 |
| briancurtin | if we concede that having to fall back to "get everything and filter locally" is sometimes acceptable, it gets a little easier | 19:32 |
| etoews | with those use cases for find it makes more sense to me as separate method too. | 19:32 |
| dtroyer | my gut says there are probably three variations on find() needed across the OpenStack APIs, and we shouldn't get hung up too much on the differences. Just docuemnt those differences well to make it easy to choose | 19:32 |
| terrylhowe | definitely need that briancurtin | 19:32 |
| terrylhowe | It seems like we should provide the filters and if there are dups, we filter | 19:33 |
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| briancurtin | yeah, there's too many places where there is zero filtering capability server side. i guess maybe i'll try to tackle a better find again and look at a cleaner get | 19:33 |
| terrylhowe | would it help if get returned None on 404? | 19:34 |
| dtroyer | at a high level API, maybe. at the lowest levels I'd probably want to see the error code | 19:34 |
| briancurtin | terrylhowe: i think that depends on how find works and how they work together. on delete you can reasonably ignore a 404, but if you're expecting to get a flavor or a server or a container, you can't reasonably continue without those things since you're probably building on them or otherwise communicating with them | 19:35 |
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| briancurtin | so it is an exceptional case to not be returned what you were asking for there | 19:36 |
| terrylhowe | I like it throwing a 404 | 19:36 |
| etoews | to me, if i'm doing a get with a specific id i'm fully expecting it to be there, otherwise it's an exception | 19:36 |
| briancurtin | that's my stance as well | 19:36 |
| etoews | we have NotFoundException | 19:37 |
| briancurtin | find, on the other hand, would be a place that none could be returned | 19:37 |
| etoews | we also have ResourceNotFound | 19:37 |
| briancurtin | etoews: that's what it would be raised as (RNF) | 19:37 |
| etoews | +1 None is a valid return on find | 19:37 |
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| etoews | what's supposed to be the diff between ResourceNotFound and NotFoundException | 19:38 |
| * briancurtin was just typing that | 19:38 | |
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| briancurtin | etoews: id have to dig in, but i think the one i recently added was ResourceNotFound and it's raised when we get a 404 out of like session.get. i seem to remember NotFoundException comes from other places and is more generally for 404s not related to actually trying to work with resources (like trying to get a service catalog or something?) | 19:39 |
| briancurtin | that's not really a great justification, we should look into that and confirm we need both | 19:40 |
| etoews | oh wait. ResourceNotFound(NotFoundException) :P | 19:40 |
| etoews | i guess it's supposed to be a more specific class of NFE | 19:40 |
| etoews | that's not particularly intuitive to me | 19:41 |
| etoews | my preference would be for just one | 19:41 |
| dtroyer | I would expect to see NotFoundException if I hit a URL that is invalid, ResourceNotFound if the URL is correct but there is no resource by the requested id? | 19:41 |
| briancurtin | i think that was the intent (i have a terrible memory, looking it up now) | 19:42 |
| dtroyer | The first is more likely when a client is mis-matched with the server for some reason and doesn't know it and is issuing incorrect requests | 19:42 |
| etoews | dtroyer: but would the sdk necessarily know which case you're in? | 19:43 |
| dtroyer | etoews: in my mind it does ;) but maybe not. I'm not certain if the server response is different | 19:45 |
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| briancurtin | ok, from transport if we get a 404, it's a NotFoundException. if the something like get_server receives catches a NotFoundException, it re-raises as ResourceNotFound | 19:46 |
| etoews | i guess the question boils down to, is there value to the client code to have both? | 19:47 |
| briancurtin | so it's just turning a generic 404 into something with a bit more information about the request. teh exc message is "No %s found for %s" % (resource_type.__name__, value) | 19:47 |
| dtroyer | so the difference is just that's its specifically a resource request that returned 404. If there is additional info in the message I'd say it is worth it | 19:48 |
| dtroyer | well, you can add that anyway… | 19:48 |
| * dtroyer goes back to counting release emails | 19:48 | |
| briancurtin | the only real difference between the two is the name of the exception class and that we put the resoruce type you're trying to get into the message. we could technically just reraise NotFoundException with that exception message | 19:49 |
| etoews | right. RNF doesn't add a lot of value. (although i like the name more) | 19:49 |
| briancurtin | (i like ResourceNotFound as a name at that point, though...not married to it yet) | 19:50 |
| briancurtin | yep | 19:50 |
| etoews | something to noodle on. | 19:50 |
| etoews | i'd like to bring up one more thing before we break. | 19:50 |
| briancurtin | go for it | 19:50 |
| etoews | i'd like to see the sdk get a bit more visibility | 19:51 |
| etoews | in openstack overall | 19:51 |
| briancurtin | oh yeah, i submitted a cross-project...uh, thing...blanking on the name of | 19:51 |
| etoews | session | 19:51 |
| briancurtin | working group or meetup or something for at the summit | 19:51 |
| etoews | #link form https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1LJZxdxE8P2F0WoULZEsRCXeqZP_VgH5nWUdZlbcA68M/viewform?c=0&w=1 | 19:52 |
| etoews | oops | 19:52 |
| etoews | form #link https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1LJZxdxE8P2F0WoULZEsRCXeqZP_VgH5nWUdZlbcA68M/viewform?c=0&w=1 | 19:52 |
| etoews | proposals #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vCTZBJKCMZ2xBhglnuK3ciKo3E8UMFo5S5lmIAYMCSE/edit#gid=827503418 | 19:52 |
| briancurtin | etoews: how do you want to go about more visibility. ive wanted this for a long time but i dont know when is too early (or too late), and being in the middle of stabilizing APIs feels like a time people probably don't want to toy with it | 19:52 |
| etoews | looks like the sdk is row 14 | 19:52 |
| etoews | briancurtin: but we're getting close to stabilizing it | 19:53 |
| etoews | i dunno. maybe i'm just being impatient. | 19:54 |
| briancurtin | yep, and building up examples and sharing them and writing about them and all of that is stuff we'll have to do. terry and i have a talk on buildng applications on the SDK | 19:54 |
| etoews | but participating in the cross-project meeting might help (when the time is right) | 19:55 |
| terrylhowe | looks good. I’d really like to get these proxy changes done soon | 19:55 |
| etoews | +1 | 19:55 |
| etoews | what's the goal for a "1.0" release? | 19:56 |
| briancurtin | same. i need to go back to the create one as well since i have work to do there as well. update is sort of similar so what we'll have discussed in create will mostly apply there | 19:56 |
| etoews | or roadmap is maybe what i mean. | 19:57 |
| briancurtin | etoews: i think once we get these APIs stabilized and then applied, we do a release but just bump it up one from where we're at ( so 0.4 or 0.5?) -- after getting mileage and feedback and talk around more of openstack, ironing things out of that seems like the way to 1.0. i dont really think it's all that far away | 19:57 |
| terrylhowe | we need to get some sort of alpha/beta trial before 1.0 | 19:57 |
| etoews | it would be nice to have a "1.0" before the summit so we can go into session and try to get some traction. | 19:58 |
| terrylhowe | Tokyo maybe | 19:58 |
| etoews | i'm talking vancouver | 19:58 |
| stevelle | I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking Vancouver would be too soon | 19:58 |
| briancurtin | if we do a 1.0 early then we're stuck with those APIs until we do a 2.0. i want to move quick on this so maybe that's not a bad thing, but i do think we need to settle down slightly after we get the APIs baked in over the next few weeks/months | 19:58 |
| etoews | alright. well expect me to continue to push. frankly i'm excited to really get this out there and get people using it. | 20:00 |
| briancurtin | same. haven't worked on it for like a year for nothin' | 20:00 |
| *** vishwanathj has joined #openstack-meeting-3 | 20:00 | |
| briancurtin | and that's time. i have to head out to other things for a bit but i'll keep an eye on -sdks and be back later | 20:01 |
| briancurtin | #endmeeting | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:01 | |
| briancurtin | thanks all | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 21 20:01:07 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2015/python_openstacksdk.2015-04-21-19.00.html | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2015/python_openstacksdk.2015-04-21-19.00.txt | 20:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2015/python_openstacksdk.2015-04-21-19.00.log.html | 20:01 |
| etoews | thanks | 20:01 |
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