Monday, 2014-09-01

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flaper87#startmeeting Zaqar21:00
openstackMeeting started Mon Sep  1 21:00:03 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is flaper87. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Zaqar)"21:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'zaqar'21:00
flaper87#topic Roll Call21:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: Zaqar)"21:00
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* flaper87 o/21:00
* vkmc o/21:00
flaper87vkmc: flwang ?21:00
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flaper87kgriffs: roll call21:01
flaper87:D21:01
kgriffso/21:01
flaper87good boy21:01
flaper87#topic Actions from last meeting21:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: Zaqar)"21:02
flaper87#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zaqar/2014/zaqar.2014-08-25-15.10.html21:02
flaper87kgriffs to land redis patch21:02
flaper87I believe that's done21:02
flaper87right ?21:02
kgriffspretty much21:02
vkmcthe ascii thumbs up said so21:02
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flaper87#info Base redis patch has been approved21:02
kgriffsI am in the middle of working on expiring claims and messages21:03
flaper87kgriffs: anything critical left before we can mark that work as done?21:03
flaper87kgriffs: roger21:03
kgriffsran into a snag with trying to keep the stats counters up to date21:03
kgriffsso, I have to fix that21:03
flaper87kk21:03
flaper87kgriffs to publish rough benchmark numbers, more later with redis numbers21:03
kgriffsand then also add a script that can be called from cron periodically to trigger the driver's GC method21:03
flaper87#info Bench numbers were sent to the mailinig list. No feedback for now21:04
kgriffsotherwise, there are a few lower-priority work items on the blueprint we could slip if needed21:04
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flaper87kgriffs: lets split them21:04
kgriffsflaper87: actually, did get some feedback from Mr. Pipes on that21:04
flaper87kgriffs: yeah but he asked to test with keep-alive21:04
kgriffshe was wanting to see the result of turning off keepalive21:04
kgriffsywah21:05
kgriffsanyway21:05
flaper87he didn't mention anything about the numbers21:05
flaper87right ?21:05
kgriffsnot really iirc21:05
flaper87I should've said: No *useful* feedback :P21:05
flaper87anyway, I think we should keep sending those emails21:05
flaper87lets move on21:05
kgriffsk. I'd like to do a "Round 2" sometime this week once the redis driver is squared away21:06
flaper87The agenda is pretty small this week too21:06
flaper87kgriffs: +121:06
flaper87#action kgriffs to re-run benchmarks using the redis driver21:06
flaper87#topic What checks should go to the API/Storage layer?21:07
*** openstack changes topic to "What checks should go to the API/Storage layer? (Meeting topic: Zaqar)"21:07
flaper87so, there are 2 patches pending for review that introduce some checks in the storage layer21:07
flaper871 is from wpf and the other one is mine21:07
flaper87regardless on whether those patches are correct, I think we should have some *blendable* rules w.r.t where API - I mean, Zaqar's  API - checks should go21:08
flaper87for example:21:08
flaper87#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/117706/21:08
vkmcflaper87, yours has been merged IIRC21:08
flaper87#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/117706/3/zaqar/queues/storage/mongodb/pools.py,cm21:09
flaper87vkmc: w0000t21:09
flaper87:P21:09
vkmcflaper87, it's not in the review queue... so :o21:09
flaper87In order to enforce this, wpf got an instance of `flavors` collection and is doing queries right from the storage driver21:09
flaper87there's a way to do this from the wsgi transport21:10
flaper87there are several questions we should ask ourselves21:10
flaper87but the one I want us to answer now is where does that check belong21:10
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flaper87Regardless on whether it's more performant to do it in the storage layer or not21:10
flaper87The reason I'm putting performance aside now is because I'd like the code base to be consistent21:11
flaper87and we should strive to do that. There will be cases where that won't be possible21:11
flaper87Thoughts so far?21:11
flaper87The other thing to think about is that storage drivers are multi-version21:12
kgriffsby "that check" do you yours or wpf's?21:12
flaper87that is, there's no 1:1 mapping between the storage driver and the transport21:12
flaper87I meant wpf's21:12
flaper87kgriffs: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/117706/3/zaqar/queues/storage/mongodb/pools.py,cm L10421:13
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flaper87knock knock?21:14
kgriffslooking21:15
flaper87I think one sane thing to do is to keep API specific checks within the API21:15
flaper87TBH, I'm really not sure what the right thing to do there is21:16
kgriffshmmm21:16
flaper87so, we should probably take more time and put more thoughts on it21:16
kgriffsI've been thinking about this more generally lately. Like, we don't do a lot of validation in our storage layer at the moment, but maybe we should21:17
vkmchmm, if IIRC in most reviews we always tried to delegate control to transport21:17
vkmcletting storage to worry about storage only21:18
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kgriffswe do perform queue existence checks in the storage drivers21:18
flaper87one thing that has bitten us is mixing controllers21:18
kgriffsI think the storage driver ought to check anything that could cause it's data model to break21:18
vkmcI agree with that ^21:18
flaper87so, we should probably decided if we're going to give more value to performance or consistency here21:18
flaper87kgriffs: ++21:19
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vkmcin our case performance is crucial21:19
vkmchow much consistency would be affected?21:19
flaper87vkmc: AFAICS, lots of it (with regard to API checks and stuff)21:19
flwango/21:20
flaper87I mean, if we have the right rules in place, we'll still be consistent21:20
flwangplease blame the bus :)21:20
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flaper87for example: storage layer checks its data model is not broken21:20
flaper87that's a good way to put it and a good way to choose where things should go21:20
flaper87flwang: >.>21:20
flaper87stupid bus21:20
vkmcyeah I think it's that is the best flaper8721:20
flaper87#agreed Checks should stay in the data plane they belong too. Storage drivers must enforce their data model stays consistent21:21
flaper87Does that sound right?21:21
vkmcit does to me21:22
flaper87kgriffs: flwang ?21:22
kgriffssounds right 2me21:22
flaper87ok21:22
flwang+1, storage driver should focus on the interaction with db21:22
flaper87Also, I think this should go into our dev docs21:22
flaper87vkmc: ?21:22
flaper87:D21:23
flwanginstead of involving too much logic21:23
flaper87#action vkmc to add checks enforcement rule to our development docs21:23
flaper87:D21:23
vkmc:) sure thing21:23
flaper87ok, lets move on21:24
flaper87#topic Summit Sessions Proposals21:24
*** openstack changes topic to "Summit Sessions Proposals (Meeting topic: Zaqar)"21:24
flaper87You probably already saw this on the mailing list21:24
flaper87I've created https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-zaqar-summit-topics21:24
flaper87#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-zaqar-summit-topics21:24
flaper87lets start adding proposals there so we can start getting feedback from the team21:24
flaper87Lets add things that we're definitely going to get done21:25
flaper87WE should use the summit to discuss things that require a f2f discussion21:25
flaper87and are essential for Zaqar21:25
kgriffskk21:25
vkmcget messages by id removal is one, for sure21:25
kgriffslol, yeah21:26
flaper87vkmc: that could fall into one of our API sessions21:26
vkmckewl21:26
flaper87which leads me to the next topic, if there's nothing else to add here21:26
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flaper87#topic Should we start discussiong API v2?21:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Should we start discussiong API v2? (Meeting topic: Zaqar)"21:26
flwangI"m wondering is there an operation session for this summit21:26
flaper87#undo21:26
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x30bb810>21:26
flaper87flwang: we could have one if there's something relevant to discuss21:27
flaper87there's an OPs session21:27
flaper87actually, I'm not sure if that talk got accepted21:27
flaper87kgriffs: do you know if Oz21:27
flaper87kgriffs: do you know if Oz's talk got accepted ?21:27
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kgriffsi hadn't heard. I can find out.21:28
flaper87kk21:28
flwangkgriffs: thanks21:28
kgriffswrt v221:28
flaper87We could probably have an informal devops discussion at our pod21:28
flwangCatalyst IT will enable Zaqar asap21:28
flaper87#topic Should we start discussiong API v2?21:28
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*** openstack changes topic to "Should we start discussiong API v2? (Meeting topic: Zaqar)"21:28
flaper87flwang: AWESOMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE21:28
flwangso we really need to get some ops experience21:28
kgriffsI don't want to talk about it unless we feel like we have the bandwidth to get it done during kilo21:28
flaper87kgriffs: +121:29
kgriffsI think we could have a goal to have a "community preview" of v2 for the kilo summit21:29
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flaper87If we want to remove message-by-id, we'll have to discuss v221:29
flwangmay I know what's the killer feature to distinguish the v1.1 and v2? :)21:29
kgriffsand then take the community feedback and finalize v2 in the next cycle21:29
flaper87kgriffs: totally agreed21:30
flaper87I'd like to give 1 full cycle without API changes to gather enough feedback21:30
flaper87vkmc: flwang ?21:31
vkmc+1 to that21:31
flwang+1, stable is always good for prod env :)21:31
flaper87ok21:31
flaper87#agreed lets not start working on new APIs. Lets give the community at least 1 full cycle to digest v1.1 before we start talking about v221:32
flaper87anything else on this topic?21:32
flaper87I'll take that as a no21:32
flaper87#topic Graduation status21:33
*** openstack changes topic to "Graduation status (Meeting topic: Zaqar)"21:33
flaper87#link https://launchpad.net/zaqar/+milestone/juno-321:33
flaper87so, the base patch for readis just landed21:33
flaper87kgriffs: you said there are a couple of other patches that are still critical for this blueprint to be considered implemented21:33
kgriffsyeah21:33
flaper87Do you think we can get them done this week?21:33
flaper87Before FF21:33
kgriffsyes, I will have them by tomorrow or wed21:33
flaper87awesome21:34
flaper87otherwise we'll have to ask for a FFE21:34
kgriffsjust to recap21:34
kgriffsthe patches are21:34
* flaper87 STFU21:34
kgriffs1. Garbage collection / expiration of claims, messages21:34
kgriffs2. Remove stats counters and just calculate them dynamically21:34
kgriffsthat second one has to be done before GC...long story21:35
kgriffsthen there are a few other work items on the bp that are "bonus" if we get to them21:35
* flaper87 was going to ask if #2 is essential. It looks like it is21:35
flaper87ok21:35
flaper87#info Essential things missing in the redis patch are: 1. Garbage collection / expiration of claims, messages, 2. Remove stats counters and just calculate them dynamically21:36
flaper87vkmc: updates on this one:21:37
flaper87#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zaqar/+spec/api-v1.1-user-guide21:37
flaper87I know there's a py33 issue on the configs one21:37
* kgriffs has to leave in a minute21:37
flaper87kgriffs: ok, thanks for the hard work on the redis patch21:38
flaper87great work there (both of you)21:38
kgriffsmy pleasure21:38
vkmcthanks kgriffs :)21:38
flaper87kgriffs: also, remember the TC meeting tomorrow21:38
flaper87kgriffs: 20 UTC21:38
kgriffskk21:38
flaper87vkmc: so, updates ?21:39
vkmcflaper87, that bp is targeted for K and will be started after we get some feedback from the community21:39
flaper87targetted for k ?21:39
vkmcflaper87, which is being done right now is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zaqar/+spec/document-config-options21:39
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flaper87vkmc: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zaqar/+spec/api-v1.1-user-guide is on Juno21:39
flaper87Should I move it ?21:39
flaper87vkmc: ^21:40
vkmcfor what I discussed with kgriffs|afk... it should be moved it21:40
vkmcs/it/21:40
flaper87oh ok, sorry. I must have missed that discussion21:41
vkmcno problem21:41
flaper87I moved it to k-121:42
vkmcthe user guide for API v1 is in good shape21:42
flaper87we're in a better shape now21:42
flaper87awesome21:42
vkmcCatherine did a great job and we updated it to fit our current goals :)21:43
flaper87awesome, I'm very glad we did this back then21:43
flaper87sweet21:43
flaper87vkmc: thanks for leading the docs effort!21:43
vkmcflaper87, no problem21:43
flaper87anything else I/we should know w.r.t the Juno/Graduation status?21:43
flaper87#topic Graduation Meeting21:44
*** openstack changes topic to "Graduation Meeting (Meeting topic: Zaqar)"21:44
* flwang has to leave for a minute21:44
* vkmc goes through graduation etherpad21:44
flaper87Tomorrow at 20 UTC Zaqar will be reviewed for graduation21:45
flaper87that's the first of 2 meetings21:45
flaper87During the first meeting the graduation requirements are going to be revisited21:45
flaper87It'd be nice if we all attend the meeting21:45
vkmccount with my presence :)21:46
flaper87awesome!21:46
flaper87I'll be there too21:46
flaper87In case some questions arise21:46
flaper87I think we're not in bad shape. Some things could be better but I'm possitive about our status21:47
vkmcthanks21:47
flaper87Now, if there's nothing else to add here, I'll move on to open discussions21:47
flaper87#topic Open Discussions21:47
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussions (Meeting topic: Zaqar)"21:47
* flaper87 likes gummy bears21:47
vkmchaha :)21:48
* flaper87 is wearing new glasses21:48
vkmcreading glasses?21:48
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flaper87yup21:48
flaper87well, they used to be just for reading but things got worse21:48
flaper87:/21:48
vkmcboo, that's a bummer21:48
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flaper87yeah21:49
flaper87:/21:49
flaper87ok, I don't have any other personal and embarrasing thing to share21:49
flaper87anyone ?21:49
vkmcI'm just thinking if there is something missing for graduation21:49
flaper87Who's wearing a superman underware today?21:49
vkmcwhat is the status with Heat?21:50
flaper87the status with Heat - and every other integrated project - is that they want us but they won't use us until we graduate21:50
vkmcok, but they want us... which is good21:51
flaper87yeah, I believe zaneb updated Heat usescases with some of his ideas21:51
vkmcthat's cool21:52
vkmcwell, I think there is nothing else to bring up about our status21:52
flaper87ok, lets talk about serious stuff21:53
flaper87you should all watch True Detective21:53
flaper87it's coool21:53
vkmcI saw it21:53
flaper87not as great as Breaking Bad but it's nice21:53
flaper87vkmc: do you like it ?21:53
vkmcand now I don't know what to watch :(21:53
vkmcoh I loved it21:53
flaper87DON'T SPOILE IT21:53
vkmcI won't haha21:54
flaper87I still have some episodes to watch21:54
vkmcoh do you? DO YOU?21:54
* flaper87 knows how to play the intro theme21:54
flaper87... in guitar21:54
vkmcwhich episode is next?21:54
flaper87I think 7th21:54
vkmcoh in that one...!21:55
vkmc:p21:55
flaper87youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu21:55
flaper87don't youuu dare21:55
vkmchahaha nah I won't21:55
vkmcI think I'll start watching The Wire21:55
flaper872 more great but different TV series21:55
vkmcI heard great comments about it21:55
flaper87Undatable: SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FUN21:55
flaper87Mom: Not as fun as undatable but it's nice21:55
* flaper87 writes The Wire down21:56
vkmc9.4 in IMDB ;)21:56
flaper87that must be good21:56
flaper87or IMDB just sucks21:56
* vkmc looks for Undatable and Mom21:56
flaper87:P21:56
vkmctrue detective has 9.321:56
vkmcyou tell me21:56
vkmchahaha21:56
flaper87http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2788780/21:56
vkmcsounds like fun21:57
flaper87vkmc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuAGmC5g2_o21:57
vkmcis it as How I met your mother?21:57
vkmc(please say no)21:57
flaper87nope21:58
* vkmc sighs21:58
flaper87at least I don't think it is21:58
flaper87:P21:58
vkmcdo you like How I met your mother?21:58
flaper87not really21:58
* vkmc has found a friend in flaper8721:58
vkmc(sorry to all HIMYM fans)21:59
flaper87:D :D :D :D21:59
flaper87screw them21:59
* flaper87 hides21:59
vkmclol21:59
flaper87ok, time's up21:59
vkmcmeeting is over!21:59
flaper87best open discussion EVER!21:59
flaper87Thanks everyone21:59
vkmclol yeah21:59
flaper87#endmeeting21:59
vkmcthanks :)21:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:59
openstackMeeting ended Mon Sep  1 21:59:54 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zaqar/2014/zaqar.2014-09-01-21.00.html21:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zaqar/2014/zaqar.2014-09-01-21.00.txt21:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zaqar/2014/zaqar.2014-09-01-21.00.log.html22:00
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