Monday, 2016-11-07

sdakelike I said, one of our approaches  was just like entrypoint except more crude00:00
v1k0d3nbecause in different ways, they solve the same issue.00:00
sdakeif you break down entrypoint it doe sthe following00:00
sdake1. contacts apis to make sure they are available00:00
sdake2. contacts openstack to make sure stuff that should be created has been00:00
sdake3. contacts other infrastructure to make sure stuff that should be created has been00:01
sdake4. blocks on 2 and 3 creating a completely self-orchestrating system00:01
sdakethere is still orchestration00:01
sdakeit is just different then the orchestration provided by ansible00:01
sdakeits decentralized00:01
sdakewhen we implemented compose (AIO) we did 1, 2, 3, and 400:02
sdakeand it worked 19 times out of 2000:02
sdakethe other 5% of the time it completely failed00:02
sdakeif you distill kubernetes to a single node and get rid of the dynamic scheduling part (because its AIO) we tried this model00:02
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sdakeso i am not totally all that keen on entrypoint00:03
sdakecan you tell me what additional steps an operator takes?00:03
sdakev1k0d3n the reason I ask is we write down specs for this stuff00:07
sdakev1k0d3n i was planning to write a spec since once has been written for helm00:07
sdakeif an operator would solve the problem instead of helm, no need for a helm spec00:07
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v1k0d3nthere is still a need for helm00:11
v1k0d3nhelm is an installer00:12
v1k0d3ni can explain a bit later00:12
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sdakev1k0d3n ok i can buy that00:14
sdakecan you answer me a Q, does the etcd container in some way integrate with the operator?00:14
sdakereading the etcd-operator code, I see a bit how it works00:14
sdakebut it is unclear what changes are needed to containers00:14
sdakethat is the crux of the information I want from you :)00:15
sdakeetcd-operator is an orchestration engine for etcd00:15
v1k0d3nwatch this video from lachie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4GYyo1V3wY00:15
sdakecustom orchestration00:15
sdakeok will watch - does it answer my Q about changes needed to containers?00:15
sdakei'd be somewhat interested in the custom orchestration model for kolla-kubernetes00:16
sdakethat is what an operator is imo00:16
sdake"operationally manage"00:18
sdakeapplication speciic controller00:18
sdakeunclear if etcd container requires any changes00:18
sdakev1k0d3n i've looked at that video now00:26
sdakev1k0d3n it really looks to me like a completely customized orchestration engine specifically for etcd00:26
sdakeand looking at the codebase, looks like same story00:26
sdakeso the answer is no changes are required in the containers themselves nor the API00:27
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v1k0d3nsdake: that's right. it's an operator for etcd.00:59
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v1k0d3nthe framework could be the same for any of the openstack services that require the same level of "operator" support.01:00
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v1k0d3nand no codebase or container changes needed in this case.01:00
sdakewhich framework, etcd?01:00
v1k0d3noperator for etcd.01:00
sdakethe operator for etcd wont just work for kolla ;)01:00
v1k0d3nthere is one for prometheus as well, that shows a general architecture.01:00
sdakeits tuned specficially to etcd01:00
v1k0d3nright...we'd have to write it.01:00
v1k0d3nbut only for a few services.01:01
v1k0d3nlet me put it this way...01:01
v1k0d3nfor what we need...at our scale...we're going to have to do this.01:01
sdakeright - so this is a completely different approach in comparison to entrypoint01:01
v1k0d3nif kolla uses or not, we need it.01:01
v1k0d3nit is.01:01
v1k0d3nnot saying they are the same; i think that's causing confusion.01:01
sdakewhy only for a few services?01:01
sdakethe confusion is cleared up now01:01
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sdakeou were using them interchangably01:02
sdakebut I read the code of both and understand how both work now01:02
sdakeone is container internal orchestraiton, the other is container external orchestration01:02
v1k0d3nno. just different solutions that solve what results in one aspect....dependency handling.01:02
v1k0d3nright01:02
sdakea kolla-operator tool would be very similar in nature to ansible just tuned around openstack01:03
v1k0d3nturned around openstack = correct01:03
v1k0d3nthat's what i am thinking too01:03
v1k0d3nsame page01:03
v1k0d3nbut decoupled, just to be clear01:03
v1k0d3nso operator per service.01:03
sdakeoperator for nova, operator for heat, etc?01:04
v1k0d3nno, those are api based and can pretty much be plugged in at any point.01:04
v1k0d3nrabbit, db....those are the first to get an operator.01:04
sdakewhat operators need be written01:04
v1k0d3nmemcached01:04
v1k0d3nthose three...01:04
v1k0d3ni think the rest is ok...but need to explore.01:05
sdakewhat about openstack itself?01:05
v1k0d3nmicroservices-based. i would not write for whole stack. just components that can be reused.01:05
v1k0d3noperator should be service-specific not end-state application specific i believe...01:06
sdakewhat operates openstack?01:06
v1k0d3ni was going to talk to coreos about this at kubecon.01:06
v1k0d3nget their thoughts01:06
sdakethe thing that operates openstack is kolla-operator01:06
sdakeif we want to make infra a separate thing, that seems reasonable01:06
v1k0d3nwell, perhaps...but from what i have been gathered from others so far....service-based is the way to go.01:06
sdakeopenstack services depend on each other01:07
sdakefor example, nova depends on glance and keystone01:07
v1k0d3nthen there would probably be a good usecase for it.01:08
v1k0d3nyou're right.01:08
sdakeusecase for what?01:08
sdakemy point is all of openstack needs an operator - its not like we can just have yaml files kicking around01:08
sdakei mean thats helpful01:08
sdakebut not the end state01:08
v1k0d3nfor a nova or glance or openstack controller is what i'm saiyng01:08
sdakeis a controller the same thing as an operator?01:09
Pavonow chat is active01:09
Pavolol01:09
v1k0d3nyeah, but then the operator just becames openstack and not individual services.01:09
v1k0d3nfor instance, etcd operator just operates etcd.01:09
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v1k0d3nfrom what i have been hearing smallest atomic unit is good...repeatable.01:09
sdakei hear where your coming from01:10
v1k0d3nPavo: only two folks lighting it up really :)01:10
sdakethis is what i thought helm would solve for us - operating nova for example ;)01:10
v1k0d3nlol01:10
v1k0d3nwe need to talk01:10
Pavolol yeah well it was absolutely dead earlier01:10
v1k0d3nhelm is somewhat different01:10
sdakewe are talking01:10
v1k0d3ntogether01:10
sdakewe are talking together01:10
v1k0d3nneed them together.01:10
v1k0d3nhelm is a catalog and some dependancy. operator is dependency after lifecycle as well...which helm does not do.01:11
sdakeright01:11
sdakeour option #1 (helm) is driving the ideas of operator into helm directly01:11
sdakeso instead of a million custom operators there is one - helm01:12
v1k0d3nyes01:12
sdakei have a hard time understanding why to break apart the operational dependencies of openstack (mariadb, rabbitmq, memcache) from the rest of openstack01:13
v1k0d3nand helm can also do upgrade, rollback, keep (meaning a lock...can't be accidentally deleted), dependency for initial deployment...lot of good things.01:13
Pavowhat is this helm you are speaking of?01:13
sdakepavo we are figuring that out as we speak ;)01:14
Pavolol01:14
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sdakev1k0d3n you do see how operator is just a slimmed down helm, no?01:14
sdakeslimmed down in that it is a single use case01:15
v1k0d3ni see them differently01:15
sdakeexpand?01:16
v1k0d3ni have a meeting with coreos during kubecon....want to join?01:16
sdaketo listen in sure01:16
v1k0d3nit's 8....my wife is goig to kill me if i don't get off here, since i'm going to be gone all week. movie night :)01:16
sdakei dont hvae much to contribute at this point01:16
sdakeroger01:16
sdakettyl01:16
sdakesend me invite pls01:16
sdakei'd like to get to the bottom of where we start ;-)01:17
sdakewe got something already01:17
sdakeand it sort of works01:17
v1k0d3nsdake: want to use the whatsapp chat room to meet up during the conference?01:17
sdakebut it doesn't actually provide operational features01:17
v1k0d3ni understand01:17
sdakewhich is not what kolla's mission states :)01:17
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openstackgerritZhijiang Hu proposed openstack/kolla: Uses tunnel_interface as ovs tunnel instead of api_interface  https://review.openstack.org/39209401:41
openstackgerritZhijiang Hu proposed openstack/kolla: Uses tunnel_interface as ovs tunnel instead of api_interface  https://review.openstack.org/39209401:43
duonghqsdake, are you free right now? I have some question01:58
sdakeduonghq battery at 2%01:58
sdakeshoot01:58
sdakeif it dies i'll be back online in 5-10 mins01:58
duonghqDo we support changing number of compute nodes? i.e. add or remove compute nodes01:58
sdakethink so01:58
sdakeadd a compute node01:59
sdakerun deploy01:59
duonghqw/o need to restart instance01:59
sdakeremove not sure about01:59
sdakei personally believe for remove we would need a remove-compute api or sosmething similar in kolla-ansible01:59
duonghqiirc, I tried it before but every instance (nova instance) is power-off01:59
duonghqdo you mean nova-compute?02:00
sdakeyou added one node, and ran deploy and everything was powered off?02:00
duonghqiirc02:00
sdakehmm - pretty sure i have tested that and it wfm at one point02:00
sdakebut the one point i dont recall02:00
sdakejeffrey4l may have more up to date testing info on that02:00
duonghqsdake, I'll re-check latter when I can build the image,02:01
Pavocouldn't you add an option to destroy something like -n computename02:01
duonghqproxy virus checking mess up with Kolla building process02:01
sdakepavo yes - its been proposed but nobody has done the ansible code02:01
sdakeduonghq ya - proxies = annoying02:01
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Pavoalso was looking at some ansible code and was thinking that you could use Passlib for passwords/yml to specify actual encyrption for passwords02:03
Pavohttp://docs.ansible.com/ansible/playbooks_prompts.html02:03
duonghqPavo, how about Ansible vault?02:04
duonghqsorry but I have not catch up yet02:04
Pavointeresting02:05
Pavonever seen ansible vault02:05
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sdakepavo we use ansible vault for your use case of ondisk encrytpion of passwords.yml02:12
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Pavoah ok02:12
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openstackgerritDuong Ha-Quang proposed openstack/kolla: Specify 'become' to neccesary tasks (general roles)  https://review.openstack.org/35853902:13
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Pavoyou setup your guys way of testing all your code and stuff?02:18
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Pavowould love to learn how to do that02:18
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openstackgerritDuong Ha-Quang proposed openstack/kolla: Specify 'become' for only neccesary tasks (default roles)  https://review.openstack.org/35903102:19
openstackgerritzhongshengping proposed openstack/kolla: baremetal group not defined in all-in-one inventory file  https://review.openstack.org/39423302:36
sdakepavo huh?02:36
PavoI was asking who setup your guys way of testing your code02:37
Pavowithout phyically testing02:37
openstackgerritzhongshengping proposed openstack/kolla: baremetal group not defined in all-in-one inventory file  https://review.openstack.org/39423302:38
PavoI guess its Jenkins02:38
sdakeno jenkins isn't use02:42
sdaked02:42
sdakeI did most of the initial setup02:42
Pavoso what are you using to test your code02:42
sdakeSamYaple later extended it to be far better02:42
sdakeour testing infrastructure is provided by OpenStack02:43
sdakein a tool called "zuul"02:43
PavoI see some reviews showing test where successful and some failed02:43
sdakezuul.openstack.org02:43
Pavoah02:43
Pavook02:43
Pavoty02:43
sdakezuul schedules jobs via nodepool02:43
sdakenodepool finds a vm and starts it up02:43
sdakeand runs a test script via shell02:43
sdakerather via tox02:43
sdaketox runs all of our testing02:43
sdakeif you look in tox.ini you can see the tests we run02:44
Pavohmm what is tox02:44
sdaketox in a python infrastructure thing02:44
sdakeused to run jobs in a well-defined manner02:44
Pavodamn I have some much to learn02:44
sdakecheck out tox.ini - should be obvious ;)02:44
sdakeyou heard this one before - never stop learning? :)02:44
Pavomy brain is melting02:45
Pavoor over flowing02:45
Pavolol02:45
sdakeour tests could be better02:45
sdakewe theoretically will work on that some day02:46
PavoI have some ideas for kolla, just gotta learn how to code it first02:47
sdakekolla is relatively e asy to write code for02:48
sdakeits a good starter project :)02:48
Pavotrue its mostly ansible code but I am just learning ansible02:48
sdakeit was designed with 2 8 hour blocks of time required02:48
sdakeso you can learn how to contribute to kolla in about 16 hrs of playing around with it02:49
sdakethats the theory anyway02:49
Pavowe;; after you learn ansible lol02:49
Pavowll02:49
Pavogrrr02:49
Pavo I can not type tonight02:49
sdakeright, it helps to know anisble up front02:49
Pavowell is what I meant02:49
sdakeeven if you dont, I think you can be effective contributor in under 20 hours of code exploration02:50
sdakeall the code is very similar in nature02:50
sdakelots of the same patterns used throughout02:50
Pavotrue02:50
sdakekolla-kubernetes a different beast02:51
sdakeit will require much learning02:51
Pavobut I do wonder why you guys use a specific tenant network type instead of using all types of front and if users need to use specific ones then let them change it02:51
sdakepavo the defaults are chosen for maximum flexibility02:52
sdakeI'm not saying we have done this perfectly02:52
sdakethe example you give - i am not  a networking dude, so I'm not sure what the complaint it :)02:52
sdakeit/is02:52
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duonghqsdake, ping03:19
sdakesup duonghq03:19
duonghqI see we add custom policy.json recently?03:19
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duonghqand we put it in {{ node_config_directory }}/nova/ which has not been created03:20
duonghqor I missed something?03:21
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duonghqwe also do not mount nova (for ex) to container03:24
duonghqany idea, sdake?03:24
sdakeduonghq right03:25
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sdakemoment03:25
openstackgerritDuong Ha-Quang proposed openstack/kolla: Specify 'become' for only neccesary tasks (all other roles)  https://review.openstack.org/35909603:32
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sdakeduonghq so custom policy.json is only in masater03:47
sdakeand only a few patches have merged so far03:47
sdakethe directories are not created by default03:48
sdakeif you need them you have to create them03:48
sdakebut in newotn, policy.json is not customizable03:48
duonghqsdake, sure, but iirc, template does not create directory on target nodes automatically03:48
duonghqand we also do not create this03:49
sdakeduonghq those are source addresses03:49
sdakesource files rather03:49
sdakeoh wait moment03:49
sdakeya i'm not sure what creates the target dirs, if its template or what, but they are definately created03:49
sdakenode_config_directory is /etc/kolla03:50
sdakeand in a deployent, /etc/kolla/nova will always exist since liberty03:50
duonghqhmm, okay, even in this case, seem that nothing mount /etc/kolla/nova to container?03:50
duonghqI mean start_contr..... yml03:51
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sdakemoment03:57
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sdakeduonghq here is where it is loaded: https://github.com/openstack/kolla/blob/master/ansible/roles/nova/tasks/start_controllers.yml#L1003:59
duonghqsdake, it's loading nova-api one, not nova one04:00
sdakeduonghq here is where it is written: https://github.com/openstack/kolla/blob/master/ansible/roles/nova/tasks/config.yml#L5804:00
sdakethere is no nova-api one...04:00
sdakeits only nova04:01
duonghqit's merged and copied to {{ node_config_directory }}/{{ item }} in nova.conf, right?04:01
duonghqfor e.x. {{ node_config_directory }}/nova-api/nova.conf04:01
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sdakeduonghq check ou tthis code: https://github.com/openstack/kolla/blob/master/ansible/roles/nova/tasks/config.yml#L58-L5904:07
sdakeduonghq do you ahve a specific bug to report?04:07
sdakeduonghq the code looks correct to me04:07
duonghqThis code is totally ok, I do not blame this piece of code04:08
duonghqbut I want to make sure I interpret correctly04:09
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duonghqAs I understand, this code merge above configs, put in nova.conf and deploy to {{ node_config_directory }}/{{ item }} directory under nova.conf file?04:10
duonghqsdake, correct me if I wrong04:10
sdakeright04:11
sdakenova-api/nova.conf04:11
duonghqso, nova-api is mounted into container in https://github.com/openstack/kolla/blob/master/ansible/roles/nova/tasks/start_controllers.yml#L1004:12
sdakeitem in that example = nova-api04:12
duonghqyou can see we mount nova-.... to container04:12
sdakeright04:12
sdakedo you see the : inbetween the mount points04:12
duonghqbut the policy.json is place in "{{ node_config_directory }}/nova/policy.json"04:13
sdakethe first is the host mount, the second is the container mount point04:13
sdakegot a link to that?04:13
duonghqhttps://github.com/openstack/kolla/blob/master/ansible/roles/nova/tasks/config.yml#L9404:13
sdakethat is an error if thats the case04:13
duonghqevery policy.json is deploy by this manner04:13
sdakeyup that code is busted04:13
sdakeneeds a with_item:04:14
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sdakepolicy.json patches are just merging now iiuc04:14
sdakeprobably untested, and reviewers failed to detect the issue04:14
duonghqso I'll file a bug04:15
duonghqthank you sdake04:16
duonghqsdake, fyi  https://bugs.launchpad.net/kolla/+bug/163968604:20
openstackLaunchpad bug 1639686 in kolla "Wrong placement of policy.json " [Undecided,New]04:20
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openstackgerritDuong Ha-Quang proposed openstack/kolla: Fix placement of policy.json  https://review.openstack.org/39426005:05
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openstackgerritzhubingbing proposed openstack/kolla: add panko dockerfile  https://review.openstack.org/38723205:28
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openstackgerritJeffrey Zhang proposed openstack/kolla: Fix plugin parsing for base images  https://review.openstack.org/39426705:43
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openstackgerritDuong Ha-Quang proposed openstack/kolla: Fix placement of policy.json  https://review.openstack.org/39426005:59
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zhubingbing_sdake06:03
duonghqzhubingbing_, he does not online now06:04
openstackgerritJeffrey Zhang proposed openstack/kolla: Bump OpenStack service version  https://review.openstack.org/39427106:04
openstackgerritJeffrey Zhang proposed openstack/kolla: Bump OpenStack service version  https://review.openstack.org/39427706:13
bjolomorning06:23
duonghqmorning bjolo06:24
bjoloduonghq, just read your conversation with sdake06:24
bjololet me go through that06:24
bjolo:)06:24
duonghqbjolo, nice, just the policy.json placement, in Kolla, we merge all config file and put in nova.conf (for example)06:26
duonghqcontinue with nova example:06:26
duonghqthis config is distribute to nova component by mounting config folder in container06:27
zhubingbing_duonghq06:27
bjoloyes06:27
openstackgerritMerged openstack/kolla: Install MySQL-python with pip in openstack-base container (type source)  https://review.openstack.org/38493806:27
zhubingbing_can u help me review it ?https://review.openstack.org/#/c/387232/06:27
duonghqsomebody put policy.json into "nova" one, rendering it is useless due to nobody mount it into container, (and it does not meant is, also)06:30
duonghqzhubingbing_, moment06:30
zhubingbing_306:31
zhubingbing_thinks06:32
zhubingbing_thanks06:32
zhubingbing_-)06:32
duonghqbjolo, sorry for bad explanation :(06:34
bjolono worries06:34
bjolotracing through the code now06:34
duonghqsorry bjolo :(06:35
duonghqJeffrey4l, are you there?06:40
Jeffrey4lduonghq, yep.06:41
duonghqyou said that deploy action can handle the start one service or only one host, how can I do that?06:41
Jeffrey4lfor one service, using ` --tag nova`06:41
Jeffrey4lfor one host using `--limit node1 `06:41
duonghqunderstood, forgot that we passthrough args to ansible06:42
duonghqthank you06:42
Jeffrey4lnp ;)06:42
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duonghqzhubingbing_, I see egonzalez comment something about Fedora deprecation, do you have final decision about it?06:48
zhubingbing_Fedora?sorry06:49
zhubingbing_i should  remove it06:49
zhubingbing_i fix it now06:49
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openstackgerritWei Cao proposed openstack/kolla: Add Solum doc link in README.rst  https://review.openstack.org/39429607:30
openstackgerritzhubingbing proposed openstack/kolla: add panko role  https://review.openstack.org/39429807:33
openstackgerritJeffrey Zhang proposed openstack/kolla: Install all python packages in global-requirements.txt file  https://review.openstack.org/39415007:37
openstackgerritJeffrey Zhang proposed openstack/kolla: Install all python packages in global-requirements.txt file  https://review.openstack.org/39415007:39
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/kolla: Add Solum doc link in README.rst  https://review.openstack.org/39429607:48
openstackgerritzhubingbing proposed openstack/kolla: add panko dockerfile  https://review.openstack.org/38723207:51
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openstackgerritzhubingbing proposed openstack/kolla: add panko dockerfile  https://review.openstack.org/38723208:08
duonghqcoolsvap, if you have space time, can you give me a comment about my ps: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/394260/208:08
duonghq*spare08:08
* coolsvap checks08:12
coolsvapduonghq: it will take some time need to get the context of your conversation08:14
duonghqcoolsvap, basically, I try to get policy.json in right place,08:15
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duonghqbut I'm not sure if the file need to be placed in every service or only api ones08:15
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openstackgerritzhubingbing proposed openstack/kolla: fix collectd dockerfile  https://review.openstack.org/38399708:25
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coolsvapduonghq: I kinda agree with egongalez08:26
coolsvapNeed to verify how it works when you change policies08:26
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coolsvapShould work fine I suppose08:27
zhubingbing_around Eduardo Gonzalez08:28
duonghqcoolsvap, I also think so, but I have not much experience with OpenStack in general08:28
duonghqthank you coolsvap08:28
coolsvapI can check but not right now08:29
duonghqthank you very much08:29
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-openstackstatus- NOTICE: Gerrit is going to be restarted due to slowness and proxy errors08:46
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sp_Jeffrey4l : I was exploring about some use cases of kolla-kubernetes, i just need to know, if we compare kolla-kubernetes with fuel then in which way it would be more effective.09:25
sp_Jeffrey4l : sdake it would be very helpful, if anyone provide your views or opinion for the same09:26
sp_I am just a new folks to this arena09:27
Jeffrey4lsp_, ignore the k8s. compare container with fuel, the benefit are: 1. easy to deploy  2. unified running environment,09:27
Jeffrey4l3. possible to upgrade ( without care about the host OS )09:27
Jeffrey4lkolla-k8s bring application ha which come from k8s09:28
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sp_Jeffrey4l : thanks for your kind information, I will come up with some more points during my investigation. I will relate your points with my further exploration.09:33
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Jeffrey4lyou are welcome ;)09:40
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duonghqJeffrey4l, can you confirm egonzalez point in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/394260/ ?09:45
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Jeffrey4lduonghq, i am not sure about this. especially in current lots of openstack project.09:48
duonghqJeffrey4l,  me too09:48
Jeffrey4lnova moved all policy check into api level in liberty?(not sure) .09:48
duonghqthe point is true for nova, keystone, but for other services, I'm not sure09:49
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Jeffrey4lyes. so i think the right solution is: add policy into api service only when u are pretty sure.09:50
duonghqokay, so I think I'll wait until more guys can confirm09:50
Jeffrey4lotherwise, when end-user add custom policy, it may not work as expect.09:51
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duonghqaccording the link I included in my comment, the policy should be used only by api service. Do I miss understand it?09:52
duonghqpbourke, ping09:53
pbourkeduonghq: hi09:53
duonghqnice to see you09:53
pbourkemorning :)09:53
Jeffrey4loh. i am wrong about the nova policy.  it is move from db level to api level. not move from other module to api.09:53
Jeffrey4lmaybe it is correct, policy file is only used by api.09:53
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duonghqpbourke, I rebased my ansible become bp, so if you can get some spare time, please review it, thank you09:54
pbourkewill do09:54
duonghqJeffrey4l, if the link implied every service should use policy.json only in API part, so I think we can enforce it in Kolla,09:55
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duonghqpbourke, sdake: if you have spare time, can you give me some comment about policy.json placement in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/394260/09:56
Jeffrey4lyep,09:56
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duonghqI asked some people and it seems that policy.json should only be used by api service, if I can get 1-2 more guys agreed with this, I'll update by ps09:58
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duonghqsdake_, ping10:03
sdake_sup10:04
sdake_hey Jeffrey4l10:04
duonghqif you have spare time, can you give me some comment about policy.json placement in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/394260/10:04
sdake_just woke up10:04
sdake_prefer not to review right when i wake up10:04
Jeffrey4lsdake_, hi10:04
duonghqoh, sorry, always forgot you in America10:05
pbourkeduonghq: what if I want to use the same policy for all aodh services for example10:05
pbourkeduonghq: I would have to copy the same file 4 times10:05
sdake_ya i'm getting older and only need about 6 hrss of sleep10:05
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sdake_wen to bed around 10pm last night so 5 hrs will hae to do :(10:05
pbourkeduonghq: so perhaps, using this example (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/394260/2/ansible/roles/aodh/tasks/config.yml) we should have an entry for just "aodh" also10:05
pbourkedoes that make sense?10:06
duonghqpbourke, as I understand only API utilize the policy?10:06
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sdake_duonghq the with_items for config.yml isn't quite right10:07
sdake_ya what pbourke said :)10:07
pbourke:p10:07
sdake_you are missing two entries for each of those10:07
sdake_but i'm not going to finish the review - don't want to break it :)10:08
sdake_was that policy.json code merged prior to newton?10:08
sdake_its completely wrong10:08
duonghqpbourke, sdake_, so which service should use the policy.json?10:08
sdake_duonghq the issue is your not copying from /etc/kolla/config/nova/policy.json10:09
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sdake_duonghq another issue is your not copying from /etc/kolla/config/nova-10.10.10.1/nova/policy.son10:09
pbourkei also cant see where the services are copying in the policy.json file - there's no entry in the json10:09
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duonghqsure10:09
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egonzalez90Morning10:10
sdake_sup egonzalez9010:10
duonghqI'll add this10:10
duonghqpbourke, I'm sorry but you mean which json?10:12
duonghqsdake_, when the /etc/kolla/config/nova-10.10.10.1/nova/policy.son is generated?10:13
duonghqmorning egonzalez9010:14
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duonghqpbourke, you mean the template files?10:16
pbourkeduonghq: yes, i'll add more detailed info to the review in a moment10:16
duonghqpbourke, sdake_  thank you, I need leaving now, will read the IRC log later10:17
pbourkeduonghq: ok thanks chat later :)10:17
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openstackgerritPaul Bourke (pbourke) proposed openstack/kolla: Install neutron-lbaas in neutron-server  https://review.openstack.org/39343510:22
openstackgerritPaul Bourke (pbourke) proposed openstack/kolla: Allow neutron-fwaas to be enabled in Neutron  https://review.openstack.org/39340910:22
pbourkeegonzalez90: ping10:24
egonzalez90pbourke pong10:24
pbourkehey man10:25
pbourkeso for your patch around custom policy files - I think we're missing corresponding json template changes for the service to actually copy them in on start up?10:25
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pbourkeegonzalez90: e.g. for keystone we have https://github.com/openstack/kolla/blob/master/ansible/roles/keystone/templates/keystone.json.j2#L25-L3110:26
egonzalez90Is under review that PS10:26
pbourkebut not for aodh https://github.com/openstack/kolla/blob/master/ansible/roles/aodh/templates/aodh-api.json.j210:26
egonzalez90Let me find it10:26
pbourkeoh there's another PS?10:26
egonzalez90https://review.openstack.org/#/c/394177/10:26
pbourkeah10:26
pbourkethanks10:26
egonzalez90But we are not sure which services need to be in an API level or in every service10:27
egonzalez90Im digging into that10:27
egonzalez90Mostly only on API servers10:27
pbourkeok sounds good10:28
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sdakeok - there is another issue egonzalez9011:04
sdakethe patches as is are wrong11:04
sdakei merged a couple of them until Duong pointed out the problem11:04
egonzalez90Yes, i noticed11:04
egonzalez90Dest path is completely wrong11:04
sdakeok cool11:04
egonzalez90My fault, sorry11:04
sdakei was getting ready to beat you up with git links :)11:05
sdakei may have guided duong wrong11:05
sdakei told him we needed a with_items11:05
sdakei didn't realize policy only applies to api containers11:05
egonzalez90We are not really sure which services uses policy on api and which in other services11:06
egonzalez90Im digging into this11:06
sdakewhen in doubt - copy em all :)11:06
egonzalez90Most of them only in API11:06
sdakeok11:06
egonzalez90Yup, i was thinking on that, will not harm having all11:06
sdakelittle sloppy - but whatever11:07
sdakeif you think its relaitvely easy to understand whatneeds a policy.json then my rec would be to proceed with optimizing the list11:07
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egonzalez90There is a lack of docs about policies, but most services follows the API, however we should test every service for this11:10
egonzalez90pbourke, kolla meetings are at 5pm in Ireland time right?11:12
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sdakeegonzalez90 docs always weak :(11:13
pbourkeegonzalez90: we're now on UTC since last weekend so meetings are 4pm in Ireland11:14
egonzalez90pbourke, thanks11:14
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openstackgerritJeffrey Zhang proposed openstack/kolla: Wait the wsrep_ready to be ON in mariadb  https://review.openstack.org/39436811:15
pbourkeegonzalez90: so you've made the move?11:15
egonzalez90Yup11:16
pbourkecool welcome :)11:17
egonzalez90Welcomed with cold weather ;)11:17
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pbourkecold but nice11:19
sdakeok guys, sdake trying to learn here not being a jerk11:19
sdakecould folks define for me "cloud native"11:19
pbourkewritten in go11:20
pbourkeof course11:20
sdakegroan11:20
sdakewritten in go is a big hurdle for openstack11:22
pbourkefor me it generally means written in a loosely coupled way, microservices etc. Stateless where possible and doesn't have hard dependencies on the underlying infrastructure11:22
sdakeso that lat part11:23
sdakethe hard dependencies11:23
pbourkelots of link online explain it better11:23
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sdakeyes, but I want to learn from you, not from links11:23
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sdakethe hard dependencies, that is only possible if the application has NO dependencies11:24
sdakewould you argue otherwise?11:24
rhalliseysdake, morning11:24
sdakemorning rhallisey11:24
openstackgerritJeffrey Zhang proposed openstack/kolla: Move glance precheck into its own role  https://review.openstack.org/39437111:24
sdakerhallisey spoke with v1k0d3n for several hours yesterday11:24
rhalliseyya11:24
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rhalliseyjust starting to read it11:25
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sdakerhallisey he seems to think an "operator" is the way to go11:25
sdakesee what I did there11:25
sdakeI suspect the barrier to an operator is pretty low for us, assuming we write the code in python11:25
rhalliseyexplain11:26
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rhalliseyor I'll read the logs11:26
sdakewhich part11:26
sdakewhat an operator is?11:26
rhalliseyidk what you mean by an operator11:26
sdakeright11:26
sdakemoment11:26
sdakeread this please https://coreos.com/blog/introducing-the-etcd-operator.html11:26
sdakethen grill me11:26
sdakei want to have my story straight for today :)11:27
rhalliseyroger that11:27
sdakeso i need that to happen in the next 20 mins :)11:27
sdakefollowup material: https://coreos.com/blog/introducing-operators.html11:31
sdake(the first link was a real world example)11:31
sdakeso pbourke - re your definition of cloud native, the hard dep thing - any thoughts?11:31
pbourkesdake: trying to think how I can explain in a way that makes sense11:32
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sdakeoh lagging, got i t ;)11:32
sdakethoguth you were ignoring me11:32
sdakenot trying to be a jerk, remember ;)11:32
pbourkesdake: think of something like rabbitmq, it needs the IPs of each in it's cluster hardcoded into it's config file11:32
pbourkealso it depends on the hostnames being resolvable11:32
pbourkeif one of those needs to be changed there are multiple steps11:33
sdakedo the ips really need to be hardcoded, or would dns names be enough?11:33
pbourkewhere as a more cloud native app will respond easily to a node dropping out and a new one coming online. pull its configs from etcd or similar11:33
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pbourkeI think DNS is enough in that case11:33
sdakeso *DNS* needs to be changed and is the hard dependency in your example?11:34
pbourkeyes11:34
sdakethere is no way of getting away from hard dependencies in software development11:34
pbourkeim not an expert11:34
sdakei understand11:34
pbourkeright but I think its how those dependencies are managed11:35
sdakeok, so hard dependencies *MANAGED* is what you meant then?11:35
pbourkeinability to horizontally scale seems to be a big feature of non cloud native apps also11:35
rhalliseysdake, do we need to use helm anymore?11:35
pbourkeas in they depend on a very specific hardware setup, need a lot of memory etc11:35
rhalliseyseems like11:35
pbourkerhallisey might have a good take on it11:35
sdakerhallisey v1k0d3n says yes, I am on th fence11:36
rhalliseyseems like an operator can handle the deps11:36
sdakerhallisey would you mind defining cloud native for me11:36
rhalliseyok11:36
pbourkerhallisey: so according to the coreos blog helm is still necessary11:36
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sdakepbourke which keywords should I search for11:36
sdakepbourke i missed that11:36
pbourkesdake: on the coreos blog? it's in the faq, I guess search for helm11:37
rhalliseycloud native - a service that has the ability to be destroyed without fear of destorying the application11:37
sdakeQ: How is this different than Helm?11:37
sdakeA: Helm is a tool for packaging multiple Kubernetes resources into a single package. The concept of packaging up multiple applications together and using Operators that actively manage applications are complementary. For example, traefik is a load balancer that can use etcd as its backend database. You could create a Helm Chart that deploys a traefik Deployment and etcd cluster instance together. The etcd cluster would then be11:37
sdake deployed and managed by the etcd Operator.11:37
sdakeis that what your talking about?11:38
pbourkethat's the one11:38
sdakei think its pretty cool to see all the different definitions of cloud native11:38
rhalliseylet me see the offical def...11:38
rhalliseyif there is one11:38
sdakedont corrupt my thinking w ith marketing spam11:39
sdakepls11:39
sdakethink for yourselves guys :)11:39
sdakehere is what I dont get about helm atm - why doesn't it just become a global operator?11:39
rhalliseysdake, yes11:40
sdakerather then have tens of thousands of operators for each service11:40
rhalliseyimo right now, helm hardly gives us much11:40
sdakerather for all ervices11:40
sdakerhallisey i haven't evaled helm11:40
sdakehave you?11:40
rhalliseyfrom what I can tell so far11:40
rhalliseyit's a bunch of charts11:40
rhalliseyessentially, it's what we already have in our repo11:40
rhalliseybut it's the official way of doing things11:41
sdakewe have = which part?11:41
sdakeyou mean the ansible part?11:41
rhalliseyno11:41
rhalliseywe have templates defining config maps, pods, RCs, deployments, ect...11:41
sdakemind throwing some git links at me so i can understand11:41
sdakeneed rapid learning11:42
sdakei depart for cncf in 8 hrs11:42
rhalliseyah11:42
sdakethis is prep for that11:42
rhalliseysdake, what's your definition of cloud native?11:42
rhalliseyhttps://github.com/openstack/kolla-kubernetes/tree/master/services/mariadb11:43
sdakecloud native is an application born in the cloud meant to use cloud services.  Just like I am a native Arizonan of the United States using the services available to me of the city, state, and country I live in.11:43
rhallisey^ those are the mariadb definitions11:43
sdakeand a chart is a collection of the j2's converted to just json?11:44
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rhalliseyhttps://github.com/kubernetes/charts/tree/master/stable/mariadb/templates11:45
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rhalliseysdake, I like that definition too11:47
sdakeimy definition has nothing to do with11:47
sdake1. autohealing11:47
sdake2. self-recovery11:47
rhalliseyya11:47
sdake3. dynamic scheduling11:47
sdake4. microservices architecture11:48
sdake5. loosely coupled11:48
sdake6. dependency management11:48
sdake7. containers11:48
sdakeor11:48
sdakeas we all know11:48
sdakego11:48
rhalliseythoughts on the link?11:48
sdakerhallisey processing11:49
rhalliseyk11:49
pbourkesdake: good list11:49
sdakehttps://github.com/kubernetes/charts/blob/master/stable/mariadb/templates/pvc.yaml#L111:49
sdakepbourke those are implementation details imo :)11:49
rhalliseysdake, ya I derive my definition from those items11:51
sdakeso that line 1 - where does sthe {{ }} come from11:51
rhalliseyyou definition is neat because it takes into account the meaning of the two words11:51
rhalliseycloud & native11:51
sdakethanks my wife actually came up with it11:55
sdakerbergeron gets the credit11:55
sdakealthough I came up with the list on my own :)11:58
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sdakeso rhallisey i think you are lagging, what is https://github.com/kubernetes/charts/blob/master/stable/mariadb/templates/pvc.yaml#L1 fed by?12:09
sdake[04:52:20]  <sdake>so that line 1 - where does sthe {{ }} come from12:10
sdakethat is a variable substitution, but where is the variable substituted from?12:10
rhalliseyhttps://github.com/kubernetes/charts/blob/master/stable/mariadb/values.yaml12:10
sdakevalues.yaml is a built-in in helm charts?12:11
rhalliseywhat do you mean by build-in?12:11
rhalliseybuilt-in*12:12
sdakei mean like all.yaml12:12
sdakeexpected12:12
sdakerequired12:12
rhalliseyyes12:12
sdakeits part of every chart12:12
rhalliseyidk if you need that exact name12:12
rhalliseyprobably tho12:12
sdakeok - how to override values.yaml?12:12
sdakeperhaps I lack vision (or helm lacks a roadmap of one), but what precise value does helm add to kolla-kubernetess?12:14
sdakerhallisey ^^12:16
sdakeif helm doesn't provide an operational experience, what is its purpose in life?12:16
sdakerhallisey ^^12:17
openstackgerritzhubingbing proposed openstack/kolla: add panko dockerfile  https://review.openstack.org/38723212:18
rhalliseyit's the kubernetes native way of handleing an application12:19
rhalliseyrpm12:19
rhalliseyit doesn't fill a gap, but dresses up what we already have in templates12:20
sdakeok, so work for later then?12:20
sdaketo me, the biggest problem we hae today is lack of orchestration12:20
rhalliseyyes12:20
sdakeI think of an operator as a custom orchestrator12:20
rhalliseyI thought helm could've helped us there12:20
sdakebecause that is precisely what it is12:20
rhalliseybut it won't12:20
sdakeit won't why?12:21
sdakeyou mean it doesn't?12:21
sdakeor won't12:21
rhalliseydoesn't12:21
sdaketwo totally differnet words :)12:21
sdakeok12:21
rhalliseybrr12:21
rhallisey36 degrees in boston12:21
sdakealso I think the idea of the entrypoint while intriguing, didnt' work for us twice in the past12:22
sdakeand requires significant  rework to the container framework we have in place12:22
rhalliseythe entrypoint piece is challenging12:24
v1k0d3nmorning guyes12:24
sdakesup v1k0d3n12:24
rhalliseyv1k0d3n, yo12:24
v1k0d3nsdake: you never sleep man :) haha12:24
sdakerhallisey you remember compsoe worked 19 times out of 2012:24
sdakeconsistently12:24
sdakev1k0d3n 6 hrs a day typically :)12:24
rhalliseyyes12:24
v1k0d3nare you really an intelligent bot on IRC?12:24
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v1k0d3nyo rhallisey12:24
sdakeand that was a crude implementation of entrypoint12:24
rhalliseythat was the baked in12:25
v1k0d3nhaha12:25
rhalliseyconfig internal12:25
sdakev1k0d3n whoever invented me should earn a turing award ;)12:25
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v1k0d3nreading through notes above...looks like you discussed some about the operators though12:25
sdakev1k0d3n yup12:25
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sdakev1k0d3n i also synced up with teh tc on what it would take to make go happen in the openstack ecosystem12:25
sdakesince go inevitbly is a thing that people will want  for the wrong reasons12:26
rhalliseywhat did they say?12:26
sdakethe vote for swift on go was 6/712:26
sdakeneeds to be 7/612:26
sdakein order to be 7/6, openstack needs to grow12:26
sdake1. dependency management system12:26
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sdake2. release management system12:27
v1k0d3nso confusion on helm...did that get cleared up? i'm still reading.12:27
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sdake3. replacements for oslo.db and oslo.log and oslo.messaging12:27
v1k0d3noperator manages dependancies and complex logic (where hard ip's are needed etc). helm is the deployment tool and catalog search for these items with initial deployment logic. both are important steps.12:28
sdake4. some form of automated testing framework12:28
sdakev1k0d3n in that video of etcd_operator, helm was not used12:28
sdakeinstead etcd_oeprator was used12:28
sdakeso rhallisey - as you can see, its an uphill battle to implement anything in go native without more champions besides just kolla12:29
rhalliseywel12:29
rhalliseynew project in kubernetes?12:29
sdakeI was thinking we should be prototyping and implementing an operator in ansible12:29
rhalliseythat's what I was thinking :)12:29
sdakesorry ansible/python12:30
sdakei recommend not thinking about the end state guys, everyone so wrapped up in the end state, we are not workign on an iterative approach12:30
sdakekfox1111 and sbezverk working on an iterative approach12:30
sdakebig bang  software engineering always always fails12:30
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rhalliseyagree with an iterative approach, but want to pick the right one12:31
rhalliseysince we have a bunch of approaches here12:31
sdakerhallisey because of openstack CLA, we can't take the code from kolla-kubernetes and place it under some different organization such as CNCF12:31
rhalliseywe don't take the code12:31
sdakei think helm (short term) is an optimization12:31
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rhalliseywe write the operators under cncf12:31
rhalliseyor we wait12:31
sdakerhallisey that was step B12:32
sdakeletsget step A out of the way first12:32
rhalliseythat's if we go with operators12:32
sdakewe can do everything in python very easily and very fast12:32
sdakewithout having to ramp up our community on go as a language12:32
rhalliseyhmm12:32
sdakealso, for true interop, we need to solve the problems 1-4 above I  talked about12:32
rhalliseywe as in kolla?12:33
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sdakekolla may be the best place to take a stab at solving them post ocata12:33
rhalliseyor openstack?12:33
v1k0d3nok finally caught up.12:33
sdakeno, we as in openstack12:33
sdakebut yes, we as in kolla ;)12:33
rhalliseyerm12:33
v1k0d3nso where are we at?12:33
rhalliseylet's put that on the ml12:33
sdakeput which on the ml?12:34
rhallisey4 steps before we can achieve interop12:34
v1k0d3nnot sure exactly why operator is considered as a replacement for helm. they accomplish different things.12:34
sdakelets not and say we did12:34
rhalliseyk12:34
rhallisey:/12:34
rhalliseydunno why not12:34
rhalliseymoving on then12:34
sdakev1k0d3n what I'm getting at is the following12:35
sdakewe dont' immediately need helm12:35
zhubingbinghey guys12:35
sdakewe immediately need an operator12:35
sdakehey zhubingbing12:35
rhalliseyv1k0d3n, not as a replacement, but idk if we need helm yet12:35
sdakezhubingbing start learning go plz12:35
zhubingbingok~12:35
rhalliseylol12:35
zhubingbingplz ?12:35
v1k0d3nwell, if you don't have helm...what's the deployment logic?12:35
sdakeplz = shortcut for please12:35
zhubingbingsure12:35
sdakev1k0d3n the operator does deployment for etcd12:35
v1k0d3nor i should say mechanism12:35
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rhalliseywe already have the logic with the existing templates12:36
v1k0d3nright, but an operator shouldn't deploy every single project that kolla has to offer.12:36
v1k0d3nhow is an operator going to choose?12:36
zhubingbingGo language I will point12:36
sdakev1k0d3n via yaml config file?12:36
zhubingbing-)12:37
sdakezhubingbing in your spare time12:37
sdakev1k0d3n we have one of those alreayd called globals.yaml :)12:37
zhubingbingroger12:37
v1k0d3ncan i just for one say that i don't like that approach?12:37
rhalliseysure12:37
v1k0d3nfor kolla-kubernetes...12:37
v1k0d3nansible totally fine.12:37
sdakev1k0d3n which approach, reading globals.yaml?12:37
v1k0d3nyes.12:38
rhalliseyno ansible12:38
rhalliseyugh12:38
sdakewhich is it12:38
openstackgerritzhubingbing proposed openstack/kolla: add panko role  https://review.openstack.org/39429812:38
rhalliseylet me just delete that repo12:38
sdakev1k0d3n could you expand on why you think a yaml file for configuration is the wrong approach?12:38
v1k0d3nwe're going full circle on this a lot12:39
sdakehttp://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws.com/381916/modules/forum/attachments/squirrelarmy_1401683593.jpg12:39
v1k0d3nif helm is used, audience grows beyond kolla.12:39
sdakev1k0d3n ok before we get back into helm12:39
sdakelets tlak about globals.yaml12:39
v1k0d3nthe operator model is great....you know i'm a huge fan12:39
rhalliseytrue12:40
sdakewhat part precisely do you not like about globals.yaml as a config file?12:40
rhalliseyv1k0d3n, btw I'm not saying no to helm12:40
rhalliseydon't think sdake is either12:40
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rhalliseyjust deployment #1 here12:40
v1k0d3njust split out some of the work12:41
v1k0d3nSAP is already refining a helm deployment. use as a template.12:41
v1k0d3nthat path is pretty quick. lots interested in that.12:41
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v1k0d3nthey just pushed a lot of changes today...all the make/precompile logic.12:41
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v1k0d3njust generalize that. and others who are more python savvy can work on the operators.12:42
sdakev1k0d3n can you answer my question about what is wrong with one config file in /etc/kolla?12:42
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sdakeif we can't get the basic problems solved, we are going to have a terrible time collaborating :)12:42
v1k0d3nbecause helm can address that.12:42
v1k0d3nhas anyone else tried using helm first?12:42
rhalliseyv1k0d3n, more exposure in helm12:42
sdakedo you have an example12:42
v1k0d3njust an ask...12:42
rhalliseyI mean sdake *12:43
sdakehow is there more exposure in helm12:43
sdakecomon guys feed me :)12:43
zhubingbingwho can u help me review panko12:43
sdakemy AI becomes sharper by the moment :)12:43
rhalliseyhelm is the place you get your app in kubernetes12:44
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sdakerhallisey is it like pypi?12:44
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zhubingbinghttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/387232/12:44
zhubingbinghttps://review.openstack.org/39429812:44
v1k0d3nhttps://github.com/kubernetes/helm/blob/master/docs/using_helm.md12:45
sdakeso muc h documentation12:45
v1k0d3nthe docs need a bit more imo, but right now it's a really good start12:45
sdakewhisky tango foxtrot tiller12:45
v1k0d3nrhallisey: think a bit beyond that though.12:46
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v1k0d3nhelm gives operators a catalog lookup with initial deploy logic.12:47
v1k0d3n....and.....icing on the cake, the audience widens.12:47
openstackgerritRyan Hallisey proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes: Remove ansible dir from kolla-kubernetes  https://review.openstack.org/39440512:47
zhubingbingping Eduardo Gonzalez12:47
zhubingbing-)12:47
v1k0d3nultimately, the deployment that makes operators life simple will be the tool that people gravitate to.12:48
sdakeA Repository is the place where charts can be collected and shared. It's like Perl's CPAN archive or the Fedora Package Database, but for Kubernetes packages.12:48
sdakev1k0d3n ya we already figured that out with kolla-ansible ;)12:48
v1k0d3nand if you remember, what i said when we were at the summit is that the community is fractured when it comes to container deployments of openstack. this takes back that command.12:48
sdakecommunity is not fractured12:49
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sdakethere are 4-5 cats working in silos12:49
sdakein 2-3 silos12:49
v1k0d3nsdake: kolla-ansible is why there are 3 deployments of openstack/kubernetes.12:49
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sdakeand 500 people working on kolla12:49
v1k0d3nbut those 2 out of the 3 are trying to be solutions at corp scale.12:49
sdakev1k0d3n you are wrong12:49
sdakekolla-ansible is not why there are 3 deployments of opensstack/kubernetes12:49
v1k0d3nno. i'm not. because i'm sitting at the other end of these sales pitches.12:49
sdakedont confuse marketing with the truth12:50
sdakethe reality is this:12:50
sdakekolla-ansible trounced other openstack deployment tools12:50
v1k0d3nthe reality is the one that ends up in our shop; the one that our execs would believe at the end of the day.12:50
sdakethese siloed groups are trying to compete back on new ground with kubernetes12:50
v1k0d3nfrom what i have been told everywhere, it's not in there interest to maintain container builds.12:51
sdakewell lets agree to disagree then and move on12:51
v1k0d3nthis is a really big part though.12:51
v1k0d3ni'm telling each "meet us in kolla".12:51
sdakewhat does container builds have to do with it?12:52
sdakev1k0d3n kolla is 3 things -> containers, kolla-ansible, kolla-kubernetes12:52
sdakeit isn't containers only12:53
sdakeI thought we covered that last night ;)12:53
sdakethe fact that 3 siloed implementations of kubernetes exists has zero to do with kolla-ansible12:53
sdakeif anything, they followed our lead and are attempting a leapfrog12:53
v1k0d3nyeah, but if kolla's container strategy isn't willing to budge because of ansible, i think this holds back opportunities in kolla-kubernetes.12:54
sdakev1k0d3n we never said that12:54
v1k0d3nit's always about leapfrogging if you want to sell something12:54
sdakev1k0d3n anyway with operators the container implementation doesn't need to change12:54
sdakev1k0d3n good, I'm glad we are in agreement that kolla-ansible is not the "cause" of the silos12:56
sdakein fact, the cause of the silos is those companies wanting to compete with kolla12:56
v1k0d3nyou guys are good with operators now? because regardless, i think that's a huge part.12:56
sdakeas you so eloquently put it :)12:56
sdakev1k0d3n i think thats a done deal in my mind12:56
v1k0d3nno, i don't think coreos really wants to maintain their own. i really don't.12:57
v1k0d3nthe other...well...that's probably a lot more complicated as we know :)12:57
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sdakecoreos doesn't want to maintain their own kubernetes implementation you mean?12:58
sdakerather openstack on kubernetes?12:58
v1k0d3nhuh?13:00
v1k0d3nthey do not want to maintain their own container images of openstack <<<13:01
rhalliseyeh13:01
rhalliseywant to have a ghangout talk?13:01
sdakenot really13:01
v1k0d3nit's MUCH easier to let "openstack" do the container image creation.13:01
sdakeirc is better13:01
rhalliseywell there seems to be a lot of mis communication here13:02
v1k0d3nsince we are talking about kubernetes guys, i really think we should bring to the kubernetes SIGS13:02
sdakeyou guys jump around so much, I have a hard time keeping track of the comms :)13:02
sdakeirc slows that down so i can keep track of the various threads floating aroudn inside your minds13:02
v1k0d3nthat's probably the way to go. otherwise we're not getting that advice and we are certain to deviate down our own path.13:02
sdakev1k0d3n kolla community produces its own distinct work13:03
sdakev1k0d3n while the kubernetes sig that sgordon runs is interesting, i'd rather us see what we come up with on our own13:03
sdakeso, back on helm...13:03
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v1k0d3nwhy on our own?13:05
v1k0d3ni don't understand that.13:05
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v1k0d3nif we want people to use openstack, they go to openstack13:05
v1k0d3nif kubernetes they go to kubernetes13:05
sdakeopenstack on kubernetes, do they go to a sig?13:05
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sdakeok, so back on helm..13:06
sdakecan we argue about one thing at  a time :)13:06
v1k0d3nhuh?13:06
sdakehelm looks like it provides a pypi type repo thing13:06
sdakeA Repository is the place where charts can be collected and shared. It's like Perl's CPAN archive or the Fedora Package Database, but for Kubernetes packages.13:06
sdakev1k0d3n is that accurate?13:06
v1k0d3nit is a repo as well. yes.13:06
sdakev1k0d3n if so, who hosts this repository?13:06
pprokopyou can host it locally13:07
v1k0d3nthink apt, for kubernetes and that is similar to helm. but helm is also part of the development pipeline.13:07
v1k0d3nend user.13:07
pprokopjust like docker registry13:07
v1k0d3ni think it would be good to reach out to helm to see the benefits guys.13:07
sdakebut there is no global hosting?13:07
v1k0d3nthere is a huge miss here.13:07
v1k0d3nthere can be global hosting as well, yes13:07
pprokopkolla doesn't host images globally too, i guess13:07
sdakeis anyon doing that?13:07
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v1k0d3nthat's the kubernetes repo/incubator.13:08
sdakepprokop in dockerhub we do13:08
v1k0d3njenkins can do this whole chart creation for the developers.13:08
v1k0d3nso there's not a massive amount of debt after creation.13:08
sdakev1k0d3n jenkins is dead dude13:08
v1k0d3noh my....13:08
v1k0d3nok13:08
sdakeor on its way to death13:08
pprokopI don't think right now there is any commercial hosting of helm13:09
v1k0d3nok....use what you want. i don't care. example steve13:09
sdakev1k0d3n huh?13:09
v1k0d3npprokop: the commercial hosting, i think you're talking about what is in the kubernetes repo.13:09
pprokopbut anyway most of environments wants to have a local registry13:09
v1k0d3nthere is stable and incubator.13:09
pprokopI mean docker-registry for helm charts13:10
v1k0d3npprokop: i am so confused now.....13:10
v1k0d3ndocker registry for helm charts?13:10
pprokophttps://helm.sh/13:10
sdakev1k0d3n thinking about 20 different things at onc ewill do that :)13:11
openstackgerritzhubingbing proposed openstack/kolla: add panko role  https://review.openstack.org/39429813:11
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pprokopokay my bad13:12
pprokophttps://console.cloud.google.com/storage/browser/kubernetes-charts/13:12
pprokophttps://github.com/kubernetes/charts13:13
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v1k0d3npprokop: yes, exactly.13:14
v1k0d3nthink we're on the same page now13:14
pprokopYou guys are too multi-task for me :D13:15
v1k0d3nthis is so true :)13:16
openstackgerritAndrew Widdersheim proposed openstack/kolla: Allow cinder-volume to be configured to use NFS  https://review.openstack.org/27991313:17
sdakepprokop ya, thats why i prefer irc13:17
sdakepprokop one thing at a time + incremental = winning13:17
pprokopRight now helm simplifies deployment of kolla-kubernetes13:21
pprokopcause it is a standard13:21
pprokopnot another tool13:21
pprokopso one can reuse many thing13:22
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openstackgerritVladislav Belogrudov proposed openstack/kolla: Exclude port from ceilometer_database_mysql_address  https://review.openstack.org/39442413:22
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v1k0d3npprokop: it's more than that. there is a development framework that could be leveraged as well with charts.13:24
pprokopcan you gie a link ?13:25
v1k0d3nwe're missing the huge value with that too, if we don't use helm.13:25
v1k0d3ni have to leave for kubecon.13:25
v1k0d3nalready running late.13:25
v1k0d3nlook for charts in dies repos.13:25
openstackgerritMauricio Lima proposed openstack/kolla: Move manila-share service to network node  https://review.openstack.org/39346913:25
pprokopThanks. Have a nice trip.13:25
rhalliseyv1k0d3n, have a safe journey13:25
v1k0d3nalso reach out to "levo" in deis slack group.13:25
v1k0d3nlachie is a huge openstacker13:26
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sdakesee ya v1k0d3n13:33
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inc0good morning13:47
egonzalez90Morning inc013:47
inc0I'm back to action :)13:47
sdakeinc0 welcome to the party13:47
sdakeinc0 i'm out13:47
sdakeBYE13:47
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inc0lol13:48
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inc0so, anything particularly interesting happened last week?13:50
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/kolla: Load all sections defined in code and conf file  https://review.openstack.org/39389613:50
openstackgerritMerged openstack/kolla: Run collect static during container startup when necessarily  https://review.openstack.org/39402013:51
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openstackgerritzhubingbing proposed openstack/kolla: add panko role  https://review.openstack.org/39429814:05
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zhubingbingsdake aroud14:14
inc0zhubingbing, he won't be around for few days14:19
zhubingbingok14:19
zhubingbinginco14:19
zhubingbingcan u help me review it ?14:20
zhubingbinghttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/383997/14:20
zhubingbingthanks14:20
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duonghqegonzalez90, thank you very much14:22
inc0zhubingbing, what is stored in /var/lib/kolla/collectd14:22
inc0?14:22
zhubingbingCollected information?14:24
inc0what information are these? that's my question14:25
inc0we don't add named volume there14:25
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zhubingbingmemory disk and other information14:27
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zhubingbingso, we don't add /var/lib/kolla/colletcd ?14:28
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duonghqpbourke, egonzalez90, thanks I'll recheck tommorow14:32
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duonghqwish that somebody can review my bp implementation: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/358539/2114:34
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inc0zhubingbing, this dir will be deleted after container redeploy14:39
inc0so we need to make sure that it won't hold anything persistant14:39
inc0if it does, we need to make it named volume14:39
zhubingbingroger14:40
inc0and then we need to keep chown code14:40
inc0for upgrades14:40
duonghqinc0,  I didn't notice bp/ks-rolling-upgrade-role before, so I partial implenent something like it in ps: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/388544/ wish that you can take a look at this14:41
lrensinggood morning14:42
duonghqmorning lrensing14:42
inc0duonghq, will do!14:44
inc0just need to wake up before I start reviewing code;)14:44
duonghqthank inc014:44
duonghqjust drop a note14:44
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inc0srwilkers, lrensing ping14:46
lrensinghello14:46
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inc0hey guys:) so qwang and jascott1 (probably still asleep) will work with you on helm:)14:46
inc0between 4 of you we should be able to make PoC soon14:47
lrensinghttps://blueprints.launchpad.net/kolla-kubernetes/+spec/helm-orchestration this is the blueprint, right?14:47
inc0thats the one14:48
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srwilkersinc0: sounds good14:52
v1k0d3ninc0: hey man14:52
v1k0d3ndid you catch up with all the reading from this moring? :)14:52
inc0nope14:53
inc0still kicking off my brain14:53
inc0caffeine is pouring14:53
inc0so I talked with snap guys, they'll help us14:53
inc0we might even get sth as soon as Dec14:53
v1k0d3nif you're like me and srwilkers...we need caffeine iv's14:53
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srwilkers+114:54
v1k0d3noh that's awesome!14:54
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inc0I have mountain dew kick start (0.5l one...)14:54
duonghqI'm always wish that I can try coffee from as many as country posible14:54
inc0almost the same14:54
duonghqhow do you brew coffee?14:55
inc0I'm not coffee drinker..I'm a tea person tbh14:56
inc0(and I'm miserable in US...)14:56
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v1k0d3nlol14:56
rhalliseyinc0, nice :)14:56
v1k0d3nyou can get decent tea at world market.14:56
v1k0d3nand the areo brew is awesome btw :)14:57
rhalliseyabout the tea :)14:57
inc0I buy my tea in online store14:57
inc0there is one good one14:57
v1k0d3nyeah, makes sense.14:57
inc0but I'm yet to find coffee shop with good tea14:58
duonghqwhich type of tea do you like inc0?14:58
inc0or anywhere to drink something decent outside home;)14:58
inc0duonghq, I drink all;) but earl grey would be my choice of every day tea14:58
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v1k0d3nthis is how i brew tea (i'm a lazy 'merican): https://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/store/product/adagio-teas-ingenuitea-16-ounce-teapot/1041716847?skuId=41716847&mcid=PS_googlepla_nonbrand_coffeetea_&product_id=41716847&adpos=1o5&creative=43742634109&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CODdho70ltACFZVahgodlx0A3Q14:59
duonghqin my city, most people go to so-called coffee shop for drink non-coffee, lol14:59
inc0yeah, in Poland we have tea-shops14:59
inc0with decent stuff15:00
inc0I have couple infusers;)15:00
inc0and best thing ever - a kettle that heats up water to temperature I want15:00
srwilkersi just chew coffee grounds15:00
srwilkersstraight to the head15:00
duonghqit's hard to find good infuser in my city, I'm looking for that for at least 6 months15:00
inc0so I can have proper 85C for green tea;)15:00
inc0lol15:01
inc0this country needs legalized amphetamine;)15:01
inc0would boost up economy:D15:01
srwilkersjust pump it into the water15:01
srwilkerscan we draft a spec for that?15:01
duonghqin my country, people use tea pot,15:02
duonghqwith green tea,15:02
duonghqsomething like this: http://chebuptancuong.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/am-tra-0.jpg15:03
duonghqbut tea infusers is much more convenient at office15:03
inc0duonghq, you're from vietnam afair right?15:03
duonghqright15:03
inc0yeah, but infusers in offices in US are lousy15:04
duonghqany reason?15:04
inc0I bring my own stuff to office, and black tea not green tea because water is too hot15:04
inc0US is coffee culture15:04
inc0lots of brewed quality coffee15:05
inc0and some cheap tea because nobody (besides me) drinks it anyway15:05
duonghqwhich tea brand do you use?15:05
v1k0d3nall this talk of tea...and coffee. shows what our priorities are gentlemen :)15:05
lrensingthat depends if you go to teavana or not inc015:05
inc0which I think should be revisited given how many asian people now works in IT15:05
inc0lrensing, I bought some tea from there once15:05
inc0it was overpriced and not that good15:06
lrensingagreed15:06
inc0https://www.tealyra.com <- this is where I get my stuff now15:06
v1k0d3ninc0: has a sensitive palette.15:06
srwilkersv1k0d3n: just caught up on all the reading from earlier15:06
inc0lol15:06
v1k0d3n:)15:06
inc0especially in my wallet15:06
v1k0d3ndon't we all!15:06
v1k0d3nisn't tevanna starbucks? or something else?15:07
lrensingi buy my coffee from https://www.happymugcoffee.com/15:07
v1k0d3n* teavana15:07
lrensingtheir site looks pretty terrible15:07
lrensingbut they have good coffee, and a good tea selection15:07
srwilkersstarbucks bought teavana15:07
v1k0d3ni get my coffee like i get my tech....amazon15:07
v1k0d3nto me, i've found that the way i make coffee is everything.15:08
lrensingpour over master race15:08
v1k0d3njust get the roast right and i will do the rest.15:08
v1k0d3nyeah, pour over you need really good coffee. that lets coffee do the work for sure.15:08
v1k0d3nagain, i digress to the iv statement earlier.15:09
v1k0d3nso inc0 have you caught up on the whole operator and helm topics?15:09
inc0reading now15:09
v1k0d3nok. i think we own kolla a demo of helm, and possibly the development pipeline. i am trying to find a video on this, but lrensing and srwilkers were on a call earlier this week that talked about the charts development and dev pipeline.15:10
v1k0d3nthere's a LOT of value in this approach and it's a lot more than surface deep.15:11
inc0yeah, as I said above, let's get PoC up asap15:11
v1k0d3nwell, what about SAP?15:12
v1k0d3nthey already have a demo they are sharing with the helm community.15:12
v1k0d3nwould that work?15:12
inc0I need to dig through their code, but afair they didn't exactly solve dependency issue15:12
v1k0d3nthey did something huge this morning; removed all the make/prebuilds and now it's more "helm" native.15:13
v1k0d3nso dependency issue will ALWAYS exists with kubernetes. i am more and more convinced of this.15:13
v1k0d3nthat's where the operator concept comes into play, but they are two separate things to solve two separate issues.15:13
v1k0d3nthey updated this morning fyi see latest notes: https://github.com/sapcc/openstack-helm15:14
inc0so pprokop had this entrypoint that solves dependenc15:14
inc0ies15:14
inc0add that to liveness probes and we can deal with deps15:15
v1k0d3nhve you seen the recent news with coreos?15:15
v1k0d3ni know...this stuff gets really hard to keep up with.15:15
v1k0d3nchanges frequently.15:15
pprokopit's just an application which can handle etcd lifecycle15:15
pprokopand interact with k8s15:15
v1k0d3nhttps://coreos.com/blog/introducing-operators.html15:16
v1k0d3nyes, but i'm referring to the model15:16
pprokopyes but for openstack it means write an operator for each service15:16
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v1k0d3napproach. i know it's not a drop in replacement. it's just showing the basic framework for what would be an operator (controller) per service that isn't cloud-native....the usual suspects.15:16
v1k0d3ni don't think so.15:16
v1k0d3nsome services are just an API, and don't care.15:17
pprokopYep.15:17
v1k0d3nthose are cloud native. spin up as many as you want, and its handled via the RC15:17
v1k0d3nbut rabbit, memcache, galera/maria...these are the problems.15:17
v1k0d3nthose need "operators" in my example.15:17
pprokop+115:18
v1k0d3nsince they need hard ip knowledge, etc.15:18
v1k0d3nentrypoint is good! don't get my wrong. poor mans "operator" container per service. :)15:18
pprokopit wasn't meant to be an operator15:18
pprokop:D15:18
inc0v1k0d3n, so issue we need to consider is our containers *has to remain* compatible with ansible15:19
pprokopIt was developed to do one thing (maybe two)15:19
inc0and non-k8s model15:19
inc0but I think we can pull that off15:19
rhalliseyinc0, yes, but we can template this stuff15:20
pprokopI am more the confident that for most services dependencies can be handled via init container15:20
inc0not really, template will work on container build15:20
pprokopso just template manifest15:20
rhalliseyinc0, yes exactly15:20
inc0and I don't want to have different containers per orch engine15:20
rhalliseyyou include the scripts for kolla-k9s15:20
rhalliseyyou are going to have to in this case15:20
v1k0d3nhere's better info (obviously etcd specific, but that is the point): https://github.com/coreos/etcd-operator/tree/master/doc/design15:20
rhalliseybecause kolla-k8s orchestartion is done in the container15:21
inc0not necessarly if we make kolla-start intelligent15:21
rhalliseythis is a mix internal/external mix model15:21
v1k0d3n^^ yes15:21
rhalliseyinc0, that will cover the entrypoint case15:21
v1k0d3ni think that's where some of the issues creep in.15:21
rhalliseybut it would stil vary15:22
v1k0d3nbecause ansible needs an orchestrator (opinionated to ansible...which is fine), but kubernetes needs container self-awareness logic.15:22
inc0so etcd under k8s is meant to have full information about cluster status15:22
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inc0?15:22
pprokopyes15:22
pprokopoperator is deployed as pod on k8s15:22
v1k0d3nremember, only in it's namespace15:22
pprokopand queries api15:22
v1k0d3nso kolla namespace, and that's ok15:22
pprokopto see state15:22
v1k0d3n^^ yes.15:23
inc0yeah, so we have at least 3 sources of truth here - k8s itself, operator and actual state of nodes15:23
v1k0d3nand steve's argument (valid, i get it) is that kolla already has it's own API.15:23
v1k0d3nso perhaps that can be leveraged?15:23
v1k0d3nor modified?15:23
rhalliseyhttps://github.com/openstack/kolla/blob/master/docker/keystone/keystone/extend_start.sh#L315:23
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rhalliseykolla-k8s started with a similar model15:23
inc0we can run into all sorts of funny stuff - especially before (if ever) operator becomes de facto standard15:24
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rhalliseyI think the operator container looks pretty good imo15:24
inc01 tool will work on k8s, another on operator15:24
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inc0we kinda have similar container already - fencing pod15:24
inc0PoC quality, but still15:24
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rhalliseyya that's a similar idea15:25
inc0however tbh I'd wait till idea becomes more...stable15:25
v1k0d3nyeah, so like i said...perhaps this could be leveraged but not sure if this would remain exactly the same or not to fit an operator model15:25
inc0right now it seems to me that every company in the bunch have their own idea about managing stateful apps in k8s15:25
inc0and none of it is perfect15:25
inc0I'm ok with changing it if a) will remain backward compatible and b) will be upgradable15:26
v1k0d3ni asked steve for an architecture of this api.15:26
inc0I'm pretty sure we can achieve both15:26
v1k0d3ntbh, that is really important.15:26
inc0it's really simple15:26
v1k0d3nwould be nice to include with the docs15:27
inc0https://github.com/openstack/kolla/blob/master/ansible/roles/nova/templates/nova-compute.json.j215:27
inc0you just specify files you want to copy and command you want to run15:27
inc0so as Steve said, we had similar experiment already15:28
inc0with mesos and zookeeper15:28
v1k0d3nwell, i think the save snapshot is pretty key15:28
zhubingbinginco https://review.openstack.org/#/c/353261/15:28
zhubingbingplease remove -215:28
zhubingbinginc015:29
zhubingbingthanks15:29
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inc0done15:29
zhubingbingok15:29
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openstackgerritJeffrey Zhang proposed openstack/kolla: Wait the wsrep_ready to be ON in mariadb  https://review.openstack.org/39436815:30
inc0v1k0d3n, so yeah, this looks like fencing pod we have15:31
inc0I fundamentally mistrust any external tool that queries api and do stuff15:31
v1k0d3nthat's ok. i get that.15:31
inc0as it might run into all sorts of funny race conditions15:31
v1k0d3ni'm just asking to use a similar framework for kubernetes15:31
inc0alternative idea would be k8s-native hooks that are called whenever something happends15:32
v1k0d3nobviously just for kolla, and specifically for the individual services.15:32
openstackgerritJeffrey Zhang proposed openstack/kolla: Load all sections defined in code and conf file  https://review.openstack.org/39449415:32
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v1k0d3nit doesn't need to be an openstack-wide fencing solution. i feel like a microservice-based operator model is easier to maintain long term, and more flexible.15:33
inc0well, there are few things that needs fencing-like behaviour tho15:33
v1k0d3nwhat coreos is talking about is just "showing others" how to build these operators. they're not building them on behalf of others....so i don't think there's a concern there.15:33
inc0and anything with volume (so anything with data-persistence) would also be vulnerable15:33
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v1k0d3ni agree.15:35
v1k0d3ni think that each component should have it's own volume claim though.15:35
v1k0d3nthat's better even from a security model.15:35
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openstackgerritJeffrey Zhang proposed openstack/kolla: NO_MERGE: test mitaka branch  https://review.openstack.org/39387715:38
v1k0d3ninc0: you may or may not find this interesting too: https://github.com/coreos/prometheus-operator/blob/master/Documentation/service-monitor.md15:40
v1k0d3nfor instance the parts at the bottom: Currently, targets are always discovered from all namespaces. In the future, the ServiceMonitor should allow to restrict this to one or more namespaces. How such a configuration would look like, i.e. explicit namespaces, selection by labels, or both, and what the default behavior should be is still up for discussion.15:40
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v1k0d3nan interesting scenario is using kubernetes federated API for kolla operators: https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/blob/master/docs/proposals/federated-api-servers.md15:42
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Pavomorning everyone15:45
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v1k0d3nmorning Pavo15:49
v1k0d3nwhere is kfox1111 lately?15:49
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v1k0d3nwhat are your thoughts on all of these discussions? curious.15:50
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openstackgerritzhubingbing proposed openstack/kolla: Ansible-ize OpenStack Designate  https://review.openstack.org/35326115:52
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lrensingv1k0d3n: what sort of prechecks do you think would be valuable to have in kolla-kubernetes?15:52
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rhalliseylrensing, go ahead and post what you have15:55
rhalliseythe community can iterate on it15:55
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v1k0d3nlrensing: i think most prechecks can be done via kubernetes api once that is up.16:03
v1k0d3neven checking to see if kubernetes itself exists can be done through api queries.16:04
v1k0d3nare prechecks ansible?16:05
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inc0v1k0d3n, prechecks are ansible16:08
inc0but thats just playbook16:08
inc0and totally optional16:08
inc0we can do it with k8s, or not do it at all and let k8s handle it16:09
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v1k0d3ninc0: yeah, that's where i was going. are the pre-checks really needed for k8s?16:11
v1k0d3ni mean...they ARE, but the approach is different.16:11
inc0not really imho16:11
v1k0d3n^^ agreed.16:11
v1k0d3nsimple is k8s available, are persistant volumes available, etc16:12
openstackgerritzhubingbing proposed openstack/kolla: Ansible-ize OpenStack Designate  https://review.openstack.org/35326116:12
v1k0d3nlooks different. so what lrensing is working on was before we started talking about entrypoints and operator logic, right?16:12
v1k0d3n(assumption here)16:12
rhalliseyanything that is environment specific16:13
rhalliseyso any thing that kolla-k8s documents as part of setup16:13
rhalliseythose would be prechecked16:13
rhalliseyI think that will be more defined as we define our orchestartion16:13
rhalliseythere are also sanity checks that could go on top of that16:14
inc0yeah, my approach would be - write deployment while keeping upgradability in mind16:14
inc0all the rest - we'll deal with it as we go16:14
sean-k-mooneyo/ how are everyone today16:15
inc0stuff that makes sense in ansible might not make sense in k8s and vice versa16:15
rhalliseyfor sure16:15
inc0good morning Sean:)16:15
v1k0d3ninc0: ...this is going to be my new twitter quote of the day "stuff that makes sense in ansible might not make sense in k8s and vice versa" OMG YES16:16
inc0I'm all for what makes sense16:16
inc0I don't care about "omg omg this has to look like ansible"16:16
inc0no it doesn't16:16
v1k0d3nburn it all to the ground like our elections? yes.16:16
v1k0d3n(clearly...a joke here guys)16:16
sean-k-mooneyinc0: i see ye are haveing some fun with kolla-k8s16:16
v1k0d3n:)16:16
inc0sean-k-mooney, it's our local hype in Kolla;)16:17
v1k0d3nseriously though, just trying to determine parity between what is needed for each.16:17
inc0and hype is important...also it is damn cool;)16:17
inc0v1k0d3n, deploy and upgrade16:17
v1k0d3nsean-k-mooney: lol yes...fun.16:17
inc0that's it16:17
v1k0d3ninc0: agreed16:17
v1k0d3nwell...downgrade in cases where downgrade could be possible.16:18
v1k0d3njust throwing that out there.16:18
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inc0downgrade is not supported by openstack16:18
sean-k-mooneyi have an open question for ye guys. do we have a solution today for runing different contienres in the same group?16:18
v1k0d3nnot possible with ansible today, but definitely possible with k9s16:18
v1k0d3nor k8s minus the special letter.16:18
sean-k-mooneyor rather running the porcess in in two different contiers with the same group.16:18
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v1k0d3ninc0: to that point (downgrade) even more reason to use an operator, honestly. :)16:19
inc0v1k0d3n, operator or not, won't happen nicely16:20
inc0there is no downgrade of database, period16:20
v1k0d3noperator won't allow upgrade if there is a failure << what i'm saying.16:20
inc0this is only real issue we have, but hard enough to block whole thing16:20
v1k0d3nthere is a logic diagram in that repo i sent earlier.16:20
inc0sure, but still, no downgrade of db16:20
v1k0d3ndoes db need downgraded?16:21
inc0as in - no reverse migration16:21
inc0ofc16:21
v1k0d3nfor other services?16:21
inc0if you do dbsync16:21
inc0you have new schema16:21
inc0if you save sth to new schema16:21
v1k0d3nTPC entrypoint is a dbsync16:21
v1k0d3nwhich is interesting approach.16:21
inc0you will either lose data or do manual reverse migration16:21
v1k0d3nnot saying i like or dislike. just noting it.16:21
inc0what I'm saying is downgrade won't happen not because of orchiestration mechanism16:22
inc0it would be super easy for us to downgrade even with ansible16:22
v1k0d3nok16:22
inc0reverse db migration -> that's blocker16:22
v1k0d3ni'm just going to concede. your missing my point.16:22
v1k0d3nkubernetes allows downgrade. openstack does not. openstack will need to change at some point.16:23
v1k0d3n^ point16:23
v1k0d3nnot a kolla issue to solve.16:23
inc0yeah, and if that ever happends we'll be ready16:23
sean-k-mooneyv1k0d3n: that will be a long way off16:23
inc0imho won't ever happen16:23
v1k0d3nback to agreement on all points again.16:23
v1k0d3nnot sure about that.16:23
sean-k-mooneyv1k0d3n: i have more faith in the nova scheduler refactor and a swap to pure python3 before db downgrades are added16:23
inc0as they had reverse migrations and they are removing them16:24
v1k0d3nif we said that applications would get to this point 3 years ago we said never going to happen :)16:24
v1k0d3nsean-k-mooney: hahaha! fair enough16:24
inc0which means, OpenStack will actively block downgrade16:24
dmsimardinc0: fyi I've revived an internal thread about licensing stuff (re: ansible vs apache v2), I'll let you know if anything comes out of it16:24
inc0I don't like it, bu thats what it is16:24
inc0dmsimard, I would appreciate it!16:24
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inc0I would be willing to code in really cool feature to ansible itself if I could16:25
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inc0would incubate in Kolla and then we could move it to ansible core16:25
inc0but GPL really hurt our effort there16:25
v1k0d3nbtw, did you guys hear about the ceph GPL stuff?16:25
sean-k-mooneyinc0: you could add some nice features as plugins16:25
sean-k-mooneybut ya i avoid the gpl16:26
dmsimardinc0: FWIW Zuul is (still) apache v2 with a bunch of ansible stuff in there https://github.com/openstack-infra/zuul16:26
inc0sean-k-mooney, one particular plugin I am thinking about adding will be GPL-tainted16:26
v1k0d3nalso kind of wondering what happens to GPL in container world, since it's contained.16:26
inc0dmsimard, there are things that allows certain things to be coded to ansible with apache 216:26
inc0like our kolla_docker module16:26
rhalliseyv1k0d3n, I think the ceph issue got resolved16:26
rhalliseylicense is chaning16:27
inc0but strategy plugin will be tainted.16:27
rhalliseyI don't have a link though16:27
dmsimardrhallisey: license for zuul ?16:27
v1k0d3nrhallisey: i saw that ceph docker was resolved. ceph itself is still GPL though.16:27
v1k0d3ndoes that matter?16:27
dmsimardrhallisey: oh nm16:27
rhalliseydmsimard, no for cpeh16:27
rhalliseyceph16:27
inc0I haven't seen ceph gpl story...link anyone?16:27
v1k0d3nhttps://github.com/ceph/ceph-docker/blob/master/LICENSE16:27
kfox1111morning.16:27
sean-k-mooneyinc0: i was think that it would be cool to add a stratagey plugin that understood groups actully16:27
srwilkerskfox1111: morning16:27
sdakeyo cats16:27
inc0sean-k-mooney, strategy plugin I was thking about would effectively add mechanism similar to --template-override but to ansible16:28
v1k0d3nhttps://github.com/ceph/ceph/blob/0a5d8946004060ca8d848d5c9107e1596ebc7f33/README.md16:28
sdakekfox1111 how do you feel about making a "operator" for kolla-kubernetes16:28
inc0things like dpdk could be just plugin to kolla instead of full patchset to core16:28
sean-k-mooneyinc0: i was think you could do somthing similar with the kolla-ansible tool for that issue.16:28
kfox1111sdake: I don't follow.16:28
sean-k-mooneythought not generically i guess16:28
v1k0d3nLGPL version 2.116:28
sdakekfox1111 your probably missing ontext  then - here is some docs:16:29
kfox1111yeah. been buys readying a system, so had to keep my head down.16:29
sdakehttps://coreos.com/blog/introducing-operators.html16:29
inc0sean-k-mooney, so strategically my plan for this would be to have something like contrib dir for both dockerfiles and ansible16:29
sean-k-mooneyinc0: i would love to be able to do that or to have a mechanium similar to devstacks plugins16:30
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inc0something like that16:30
sdakekfox i havve to hit the airport in 5 mins, so make a decision quckly please :)16:30
v1k0d3nno pressure, right? lol16:30
kfox1111sdake: looking...16:30
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inc0like place for code where you can put your own stuff that will be optional during deployment16:30
sdakeif kfox and sbezverk arn't in, we might as well shelve that idea16:30
inc0easier to manage and will allow us to have code with lower quality requirements in there16:31
sean-k-mooneyinc0: well my taught were i would lovs to add a mechanium where i could add a kolla sub directory to an arbty git directory and load it as a plugin with docker file and ansible playbooks16:31
v1k0d3ninc0: helm has that btw.16:31
v1k0d3ndeis steward too16:31
inc0sean-k-mooney, yup, that's the plan16:31
inc0and I think I can do this with ansible native way16:31
v1k0d3noh, just talking about ansible.16:31
inc0with proper strategy plugin16:31
v1k0d3nnot for the kubernetes part.16:31
v1k0d3nright?16:31
inc0...if not for GPL16:32
inc0yeah v1k0d3n16:32
sean-k-mooneyinc0: that is definetly something i would love to test out.16:32
inc0this is not a feature I care about in k8s initial release;)16:32
v1k0d3nok. just checking. man, gets SO confusing having kolla blob like this.16:32
zhubingbinggood bye guys16:32
inc0trust me, I know16:32
zhubingbing-)16:32
srwilkersbye zhubingbing16:32
inc0have a good night zhubingbing16:32
zhubingbingthanks16:32
v1k0d3nlater zhubingbing16:32
zhubingbingbye16:32
sdakev1k0d3n reading scrollback now16:32
sean-k-mooneyinc0: speaking of dpdk https://review.openstack.org/#/c/342354/ i have a lot of work still to do but it is at least fucntional now16:33
sdakev1k0d3n noticed you mentioned what might make sense in ansible might not in kubernetes16:33
sdakei totallly agree16:33
sdakethat is why we make our containers non-specific to any deployment engine16:33
kfox1111sdake: half way through reading... so far seems like a good idea.16:33
v1k0d3nsdake: inc0 get's credit...i made it a daily quote.16:34
kfox1111though I'm undersleeped at the moment too...16:34
rhalliseysdake, +1 :)16:34
sdakev1k0d3n this is another reason why i am not keen on having containers magically orchestrate themselves16:34
inc0lol16:34
sdakev1k0d3n because it makes the containers non-generic and specific to a platform16:35
sdakev1k0d3n i think your spot in with your operator approach16:35
sdakelets figure out how to make that a reality16:35
sdakeassumign kfox1111 is in ;)16:35
kfox1111so are operators implemnted now?16:35
v1k0d3nlol16:35
v1k0d3nthis discussion is hilarious16:35
sdakekfox1111 you implement one on your own16:35
rhalliseykfox1111, we're containerizing you16:35
v1k0d3n"very who's on first"16:35
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sdakelets push off the helm discussion to later, i think theere isn't any major pushback on that idea16:36
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kfox1111hehe.16:36
inc0we kinda did already16:36
inc0as fencing pod16:36
v1k0d3nkfox1111: talking about operator concept for kolla/openstack16:36
sdakebut its hard to focus on more then one thing at a time16:36
inc0ugly-as-fuck but well16:36
kfox1111I've asked for clone(kfox1111) for years... that would be cool. :)16:36
kfox1111are operator support in k8s implmented today?16:36
rhalliseydocker run kfox111116:36
kfox1111I don't remember seeing it in the specs currently.16:36
sdakekfox1111 no, k8s nor helm implement operators16:37
v1k0d3nok, so helm (for the most part) we agree is good, am i getting this correctly?16:37
sdakethere isn't a standardized operator implementation that works across service16:37
v1k0d3njust because i'm slow, and need clarity....16:37
rhalliseykfox1111, no spec yet16:37
sdakeeach operator is customized to the service16:37
kfox1111sdake: k.16:37
v1k0d3n^^ yes16:37
sdakev1k0d3n right i thiink so16:37
kfox1111at the faw now...16:37
inc0uaf in short - uniform alpha foxtrot16:37
v1k0d3nsdake: totally agree.16:37
v1k0d3nok...thanks sdake clears up helm for me.16:37
kfox1111faq16:38
v1k0d3nkfox1111: you've been up on the operator things coming from coreos?16:38
sdakev1k0d3n where the disagreement around helm is at present is "when" - and I think that is second (operator first)16:38
kfox1111v1k0d3n: reading now.16:38
v1k0d3nfor prometheus and etcd. ok16:38
sdakekfox1111 going to miss my fliight16:38
sdakepull the trigger on a decision bro ;)16:38
v1k0d3noh ok sdake...i see now!16:38
v1k0d3nyes, ok...totally back that.16:38
kfox1111sdake: I'm for it, so long as its a good implementation.16:38
rhalliseysdake, ml vote16:38
rhalliseywel16:38
kfox1111have a good flight.16:39
rhalliseyspec :)16:39
v1k0d3nlater sdake16:39
sdakeroger spec16:39
sdakeml vote = overkill imo16:39
rhalliseywe'll comment on a spec16:39
sdakev1k0d3n one lsat thing we will need  to discuss is implementation language16:39
inc0python16:39
v1k0d3ngroup has python16:39
sdakev1k0d3n i know nobody is going to really like it but we may hae to go with python in the short  term16:39
kfox1111I think if we adopt helm, it will be important soon.16:39
v1k0d3nso python16:39
sdakeand port to go later16:39
v1k0d3nagreed kfox1111 100%16:39
kfox1111as it will allow us to do multiple mariadb/rabbit more easily.16:39
inc0python is good endgoal too16:39
sdakeinc0 agree16:40
inc0really, golang is great language to certain stuff16:40
kfox1111which we need for medium/large clouds.16:40
v1k0d3nyes, but there's also the whole build process around helm that is EXTREMELY powerful.16:40
sdakeso can I have a summary from v1k0d3n of what we have all agreed to before I write a spec ;)16:40
v1k0d3noperators in python. first to go would be rabbitmq, mariadb, and memcached.16:40
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kfox1111sdake: we can work out the details after spec's started.16:40
inc0v1k0d3n, how soon can we get PoC of this up?16:40
sdakekfox1111 going to cloudnativecon16:40
inc0can we please start with PoC and decide afterwards?16:41
sdakepeople will want to know our plans16:41
kfox1111sdake: ah. sweet. :)16:41
sdakei dont want to shoow up and say "taada - we got nothign": )16:41
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v1k0d3ninc0: is this a cross community PoC?16:41
sdakei'm an openstack ambassador in this case16:41
rhalliseyinc0, I think poc and spec will be in parallel16:41
v1k0d3nbecause we have hardware man.16:41
kfox1111sdake: +1 to operators and helm currently. devils in the details though.16:41
inc0I've seen too many things break after long and detailed discussion and first hit on writing the stuff16:41
kfox1111if we find showstoppers we need to either fix or abandon.16:41
sean-k-mooneyinc0: isnt the main politcal issue with golang that its not approved byoned pocs for any openstack project to use16:41
sdakeinc0 right16:41
v1k0d3ninc0: the spec is the plan ;)16:41
v1k0d3nam i right?16:41
sdakesean-k-mooney go is possible with work from us16:41
inc0v1k0d3n, I'll go with poc in pararell16:42
v1k0d3nPoC works against the spec16:42
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v1k0d3nyeah, i dont mind that. but would like to work all together on this.16:42
sdakeso i've got3% battery power16:42
sdakehere is my understanding16:42
inc0one poc speaks more than 1000 specs, or words in specs...you know16:42
sdake1. operator first ASAP in python16:42
kfox1111+1 to working together.16:42
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v1k0d3n^^ oia16:42
sdake2. helm second16:42
inc0helm poc is already happening16:42
kfox1111poc's are ok, so long as we're all willing to throw them out.16:42
sdake3. possibly port operator to python16:42
kfox1111sdake: operators aren't implmented.16:42
kfox1111helm is.16:42
v1k0d3nyes. sdake srwilkers already put out a helm blueprint i think, but spec is better16:42
kfox1111so implementing 2 first would be quicker.16:43
kfox1111or at least poc'ing.16:43
rhalliseykfox1111, we would write the operator16:43
inc0qwang, jascott1 up already?16:43
v1k0d3nkfox1111: i think we can PoC both at the same time.16:43
v1k0d3nit's all good.16:43
v1k0d3nthe helm stuff is already started...16:43
sdakekfox1111 how about this16:43
kfox1111rhallisey: but you need operator support in k8s first.16:43
v1k0d3nvery close16:43
sdake1. operator and helm in parallel but not integrated16:43
kfox1111sdake: +1.16:43
rhalliseykfox1111, I think we can use kubectl16:43
v1k0d3nkfox1111: https://github.com/sapcc/openstack-helm/commits/master16:43
sean-k-mooneykfox1111: i think the dsl and jinja templates pocs show that we can trow them away16:43
sdake2. integrate em16:43
kfox1111sdake: sounds godo.16:44
kfox1111godo16:44
sdakesean-k-mooney right - we can move past ideas to implementation16:44
kfox1111good16:44
kfox1111stupid daylight savings time. :/16:44
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sdakev1k0d3n in agreement then?16:44
v1k0d3nok...so here guys...we will start prepping lab for this PoC work. want everyone to help if possible.16:44
v1k0d3ncores have access, and code in clear.16:44
v1k0d3nsdake: +116:45
v1k0d3ni agree16:45
v1k0d3nin fact, +2 if i could16:46
v1k0d3n:)16:46
rhallisey:)16:46
v1k0d3nrhallisey: you in?16:46
v1k0d3nkfox1111: ?16:46
rhalliseyyes of course16:46
sdakepbourke is bringing people to the party too16:46
v1k0d3ninc0: ?16:46
kfox1111I'm in.16:46
inc0v1k0d3n, ofc16:46
sdakeabout 4 or 5 engineers from my understanding16:46
v1k0d3npbourke: yeeaah!16:46
sdakewe need to catch them up16:46
inc0make it open in gerrit16:46
inc0that's it16:46
sdakevia the spec process unfortunately16:46
inc0whoever wants to join in, will join in16:46
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sdakeI'd ask that we  not have a rollcall ote on teh spec tho16:46
sdakebecause thats a apin in the ass and this isn't contentious16:46
srwilkersagreed16:47
inc0so ok, guys, can we please not add more beaurocracy than we need to?16:47
inc0k8s needs to move fast16:47
sdakeinc0 precisely16:47
v1k0d3ninc0: omg YES!16:47
inc0let's not overengineer process16:47
sdakeinc0 i dont even want ot right a spec16:47
v1k0d3nsecond quote of the day.16:47
sdakebut you demandedo ne ;)16:47
v1k0d3nnow you've finally had your freaking tea!16:47
kfox1111sdake: dong forget to get on the plane. :)16:47
kfox1111dont16:47
sdakeright- gott ajet16:47
inc0let's just do this poc and go from there16:48
v1k0d3nalright...this is all great guys. see you at kubecon sdake16:48
kfox1111I think we're all on the same page.16:48
inc0that will give us idea if it makes sense or not16:48
kfox1111just gota work out the details.16:48
rhallisey:)16:48
sean-k-mooneysdake: such a bad pun i hope that was intentional :)16:48
rhalliseylul16:48
v1k0d3nyes. lock it in. and when you start to doubt yourself...remember to read back through this monster thread.16:48
v1k0d3n:D16:48
rhalliseysean-k-mooney, sdake isn't punny16:48
v1k0d3nnot punny at all16:49
sean-k-mooneyoh what have i done16:49
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sean-k-mooney:016:49
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inc0wirehead_, is our local pun source16:49
inc0you might say that he can pack a PUNch16:49
sean-k-mooneyok i need to grab more caffine be right back16:50
v1k0d3ninc0: perhaps too much tea16:50
inc0:D16:50
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inc0I'm about half way through my mountain dew16:51
inc0wait till I finish it..16:51
v1k0d3nso glad we worked this out before my flight.16:52
v1k0d3nand before kubecon.16:52
inc0well we just agreed to make a poc, which in my book shouldn't even be matter of discussion;)16:52
inc0if somebody feels it's worth doing, then it's worth making a poc16:52
sdakeinc0 we agreed to a course of action as well16:52
inc0and poc helps with discussion temendously16:52
v1k0d3nyeah, but hopefully we all agreed to work on the PoC :)16:52
v1k0d3nSAP has been doing the helm PoC for a little while now.16:53
inc0yeah helm seems to be almost decided16:53
v1k0d3nsdake: yes...biggest part, course of action.16:53
inc0how we deal with helm shortcommings, we'll see16:53
v1k0d3nthat's why i feel good now.16:53
inc0I have few ideas on my own:)16:53
v1k0d3nthey are working through these too. made some big improvements today actually.16:53
inc0yeah it's on my todo list - fully understand their code16:54
sdakehelm has no shortcoming for us in this model16:54
inc0oh it does16:54
sdakeI think its not endgame (if I was maintaining helm)16:54
sdakebut SEP :)16:54
v1k0d3nlets just leave on a good note today?16:54
v1k0d3nlol16:54
inc0Helm doesn't help us with certain stuff16:55
v1k0d3nno, but operator makes up for that actually.16:55
inc0we need to work through these before we jump head first16:55
inc0yeah, it might16:55
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sdakeok gotta jet16:55
sdakelater - will send trip report  to the cores when I return16:55
inc0have fun16:56
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sdakefun = work?16:56
sdakeare you kidding :)16:56
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inc0I kinda feel bad about kubecon16:56
inc0I was in Seattle yesterday..16:56
v1k0d3nseriously? you shouldve stayed man.16:56
kfox1111operators and helm are complimentery.16:56
v1k0d3nwould really like to have you there....16:56
v1k0d3nkfox1111: yes16:56
v1k0d3nwork hand in hand.16:57
kfox1111operators look to be implemented in containers. helm is packages for container sets.16:57
inc0v1k0d3n, tickets were already gone16:57
kfox1111a good match. :)16:57
inc0next time16:57
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inc0also I have work to do here:P can't afford to run through all the cool conferences16:57
sean-k-mooneycan someone send a link to what operators are in a k8s context16:57
sean-k-mooneyis it related to this https://coreos.com/blog/introducing-operators.html16:58
inc0sean-k-mooney, preciselly16:58
v1k0d3ninc0: next time reach out :)16:58
sean-k-mooneya ok ill add it to my reading list16:59
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v1k0d3nmay be able to dig one up as a member. you guys too actually.16:59
v1k0d3nbut you're right...this late tough.16:59
inc0don't worry, I'm sure you guys can handle it16:59
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qwangmorning17:00
v1k0d3nsean-k-mooney: you may find these useful too17:00
v1k0d3nhttps://github.com/coreos/etcd-operator/tree/master/doc/design17:00
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v1k0d3nand even this as prometheus https://github.com/coreos/prometheus-operator/tree/master/Documentation17:01
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v1k0d3nlike i said before, there may be opportunity for kolla to use kubernetes federated api as well at some point.17:01
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v1k0d3ndeis steward builds upon this concept i believe17:02
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kfox1111I'm talking with the trove ptl too.17:02
kfox1111it makes a lot of sence for trove to provide an operator for all their db's.17:02
kfox1111we could even reuse it if it existed then.17:02
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sean-k-mooneyv1k0d3n: thanks ill add that too17:03
v1k0d3nyes, kfox1111 i like that17:03
kfox1111no reason to implement everything ourselves. :)17:03
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v1k0d3n^^ totally agree wtih that too17:11
v1k0d3ni would actually LIKE to see the projects themselves build the operator logic.17:11
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v1k0d3nok guys...im off in the air. later!17:14
kfox1111I think a operator based trove would solve a lot of other problem for trove too. :)17:14
kfox1111l8r17:14
kfox1111I gota head out for a bit too.17:14
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openstackgerritAndrew Widdersheim proposed openstack/kolla: Allow cinder-volume to be configured to use NFS  https://review.openstack.org/27991317:58
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inc0srwilkers, lrensing up?18:13
srwilkerszzzzz18:13
srwilkersjk18:13
srwilkersim here18:13
inc0qwang, Qin, meet Steve18:14
inc0Steve, meet Qin:)18:14
inc0let's work together on helm18:14
lrensinghello18:14
srwilkershello:)18:14
jascott1did someone say helm?18:14
srwilkers\o/18:14
inc0oh, and there is Justin18:15
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inc0I see Brandon already left, but I met with Justin and Qin last week18:15
inc0and our quick plan for poc will be - define deps in helm18:16
inc0spawn a container from helm with these deps passed with ENV variable18:16
inc0and entrypoint inside container will query kubectl to spawn after all the deps are met18:16
inc0so this will be kinda similar to coreos operator, but not quite18:16
srwilkersokay18:17
qwangHi Steve18:17
inc0srwilkers, let's make a race, which 2 person team will make patchet with helm first;)18:18
inc0team Intel or team ATT;)18:18
srwilkerswell, if i was a gambling man18:18
inc0it's ok to have 2 for now, we'll look at them and go from there18:18
inc0mariadb + keystone is the goal18:18
inc0for poc:)18:18
srwilkersokay, sounds good18:19
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lrensingha alright18:19
inc0adding a bit of unhealthy competition to community is good for popcorn consumption18:19
inc0;)18:19
srwilkersback to the amphetamines in the water discussion18:20
lrensingi was getting ready to say…. circling back to that18:20
inc0but really, I think it'll be cool to get 2 approaches independently if we can do it within few days18:20
inc0after that we start cooperating fully, but let's get as much ideas on table before we commit18:21
inc0as possible*18:21
srwilkersi think thats a good idea18:21
qwanginc0: what do you mean by "2 approaches"? what is the other approach?18:23
inc0qwang, one is what we thought of in Friday18:25
inc0I'm pretty sure srwilkers and lrensing already paid some thought themselves on the matter18:25
inc0let make quick and dirty poc of both18:25
inc0and see which one sticks18:25
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openstackgerritLarry Rensing proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes: Adding prechecks script  https://review.openstack.org/39456918:28
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v1k0d3n...and now...the room is silent.18:29
v1k0d3n:)18:29
lrensingv1k0d3n: we were just given a challenge18:30
v1k0d3nhey, kfox1111...question for lrensing actually...how do you think prechecks should be done for kolla-k8s?18:30
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v1k0d3noh? what now lrensing?18:30
lrensingintel vs at&t helm POC shootout18:30
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inc0v1k0d3n, read the log from last 15min18:31
v1k0d3ni need to find a link.18:32
rhalliseydims, ping18:32
v1k0d3ni see some of it.though18:32
v1k0d3nsrwilkers: sent to me.18:32
dimsrhallisey : pong18:32
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v1k0d3nso, inc0 basically both working on PoC, right?18:33
inc0http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-kolla/%23openstack-kolla.2016-11-07.log.html18:33
inc0yeah, for next few days18:33
v1k0d3nso i want to include the SAP folks. they have most of what you're talking about with helm already done...in fact making big strides.18:33
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inc0get ideas up there without tainting each others brains18:33
v1k0d3nthanks for link, very helpful!18:33
v1k0d3nthis is one of our larger chat logs in a while :)18:34
inc0v1k0d3n, sure, just they expressed that they don't really have time to work on that stuff with us, and thats fair18:34
v1k0d3nlol18:34
v1k0d3nand it's already only few hours into the day.18:34
v1k0d3nlol18:34
inc0yeah, caffeine is kicking in18:34
v1k0d3ninc0: well...they did...but they are also working on it still18:34
inc0yeah, I'd love to have them here:)18:34
v1k0d3nthe makefiles and prebuilds are gone today. that's a big step.18:35
v1k0d3nwe're working with them, and specifically including deis in the mix too...since they can help us the most.18:35
inc0totally for it18:35
v1k0d3nin fact...deis expressed a lot of interest working on this, because then they understand what it takes and can help us solve.18:35
v1k0d3ntotal win for everyone.18:36
inc0I agree, I just don't want to pressure anyone18:36
v1k0d3ni will be talking with gabe and his team this week at kubecon.18:36
v1k0d3nno pressure on anyone.18:36
v1k0d3nwell, except for us to get the lab going :)18:36
inc0yeah, maybe if they deliver what they have to deliver that will give them some breathing room18:36
v1k0d3nso i have to work that out and get that going ASAP. we're almost there. hardware is actually ready now.18:36
v1k0d3nlet me try to sync up with them today.18:37
inc0cool, do that, let me know if you need any ad-hoc call or whatnot18:37
v1k0d3nplanned a meeting with them too to discuss a path forward and using lab.18:37
v1k0d3nsounds like a plan18:37
inc0btw Deis is a company..?18:37
inc0or a name?;)18:38
v1k0d3nyes, focused only on open source.18:38
inc0I'm not familiar with it18:38
inc0I see18:38
v1k0d3ndeis makes it's money by helping companies as hired guns.18:38
inc0cool, would love to talk to them18:38
v1k0d3nin fact, i would really like to talk to my management about bringing them in to assist. i think that would help us all here honestly.18:39
v1k0d3nthey are very un-opinionated, since they aren't revenue-generated via a product.18:39
v1k0d3nwant me to set up a meeting for cores?18:39
v1k0d3nwe met with them last week. impressive stuff with a helm deployment/development strategy.18:39
inc0yeah, we can make hangout with them18:41
inc0maybe after kubecon?18:41
v1k0d3nyeah, that would be perfect.18:41
inc0in the meantime, if they would like to join us here on irc18:41
v1k0d3ni will suggest a larger discussion with kolla team when i talk with them18:41
inc0we can include them in our little group with strange sense of humor18:42
inc0they either blend in or run out scared18:42
v1k0d3nmost (as in probably 90%+) are going to be at kubecon18:42
v1k0d3nlol18:42
inc0cool, extend our invitation then:)18:43
v1k0d3nthey also hang out in the kubernetes sleack group as well.18:43
v1k0d3nthat's their main hangout18:43
v1k0d3noh and deis sorry.18:43
v1k0d3nthey have their own18:43
v1k0d3nso they are in sig apps all day, and deis slack18:43
v1k0d3nwill invite them to irc also18:43
inc0kk18:46
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v1k0d3ninc0 oh btw...prometheus went to an operator model. can we just deploy this as part of the kolla-k8s tasks?18:55
v1k0d3nthoughts?18:55
inc0well I talked with snap guys about prometheus18:55
inc0apperantly prometheus has issues at scale18:55
inc0I'll pick their brains more about monitoring18:56
v1k0d3ninteresting. perhaps we can help address that on behalf of the k8s community then?18:57
v1k0d3nsince prometheus is part of cncf18:57
v1k0d3nalso, can we submit an issue if there are scale issues?18:57
sean-k-mooneyso just reading a little about operators, could they be used to manage mysql in a galarea cluster? that is a gap in kolla-k8s today is that correct?18:58
v1k0d3nsean-k-mooney: that is the intent yes18:59
v1k0d3nwhy i brought it up18:59
sean-k-mooneyok cool. the demo ye did was nice at the summit but it would be even more awsome if there was no downtime because of active active deployments of our stateful services19:00
v1k0d3ni agree definitely19:01
sean-k-mooneyeven with operators would it still be better to keep a single rabbit mq or perhaps isolated clusters of rabbitmq instances in the k8s deployment19:02
v1k0d3nfor our purposes preferably isolated clusters of rabbitmq. we're huge. our current implementation needs to support more than just one rabbitmq.19:05
sean-k-mooneyinc0: do you know if there is any intergration between snap/prometheus with any openstack services. heat/gnocci/aodh/ceilomenter.19:05
sean-k-mooneyv1k0d3n: i really like the idea of haveing 1 rabbitmq per service by default and allow each to be clustered if needed for scaling.19:06
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inc0clusters will hurt scalability rather than help19:07
sean-k-mooneyv1k0d3n: for example one rabbitmq insnace might be fine for glance but i might need 3 for nova or neutron so it would be nice to be able to scale out only the service that need it .19:07
sean-k-mooneyinc0: really that is interesting19:07
inc0yeah, local disk will always be faster than mirroring over network19:07
sean-k-mooneyyes i guess that is true19:08
inc0eventually consistent systems helps with scalling, but rabbitmq is not that19:08
sean-k-mooneyso rabbit only scales vertically well?19:08
inc0well one thing I need to check is what is impact of losing an rabbimq data really19:09
v1k0d3nthis will be an interesting area to explore later, but i'm good for keeping it simple for now.19:09
sean-k-mooneye.g. if you need to scale rabbit but it on a faster cpu with faster disk.19:09
inc0because if impact is low, we could do sth like multiple single-node rabbitmqs19:09
v1k0d3nanother problem for another day as i see it.19:09
inc0and round robin through them19:09
inc0add a bit of heuristics for services/nodes to prefer clusters they're more likely to find messages they care about19:10
inc0well, interesting experiment...one day19:10
sean-k-mooneyspeaking of another day its time grab dinner. talk to everyone tomorow19:10
inc0have a good night Sean19:11
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inc0brb19:12
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v1k0d3nlater sean-k-mooney19:13
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kfox1111v1k0d3n: maybe a kollakube subcommand?19:24
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sdakesup peeps19:28
kfox1111wb19:28
sdakeya snakes on a palne19:28
kfox1111:)19:29
inc0sdakes on the plane19:29
sdakewhats cool bout this plane is19:29
sdakea) in an exit row19:29
v1k0d3nv1k0d3n on the plane too19:29
sdakeb) have power avilable for my laptop19:29
sdakesup v1k0d3n19:29
inc0which airlines?19:29
v1k0d3nha!19:29
v1k0d3nexit row here too19:29
v1k0d3nno power though :/19:29
v1k0d3ni wish19:30
v1k0d3njust really conserving ... so no docker or other services running :)19:30
kfox1111anyone seen sbezverk?19:30
v1k0d3nkfox1111 good with a kolla kube command, but something smaller maybe?19:31
v1k0d3nthis is picky...i know19:31
rhalliseykfox1111, he's on vacation19:31
kfox1111v1k0d3n: the commands just a plugable set of subcommands. so pluging it in should be pretty light weight.19:31
v1k0d3nwish it kollactl ?19:31
kfox1111rhallisey: ah. ok. thanks. :)19:31
v1k0d3nkollaadm ?19:31
v1k0d3n:)19:31
kfox1111rhallisey: can you workflow the gate jobs then?19:32
rhalliseyyar19:32
v1k0d3nmakes sense19:32
kfox1111rhallisey: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/386966/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/389299/ please19:32
kfox1111v1k0d3n: yeah, that would be nice. but kolla itself probably should be kollactl. but then we'd be kollakubectl, which is too long. :)19:33
kfox1111v1k0d3n: I also kind of think we'll be providing kollakube ultipmately as a container. so deps and such isn't a big issue for the cli.19:34
v1k0d3nthis is the problem with having three projects in 119:34
kfox1111I should stop trying to  talk today... I just can't type it seems.19:34
kfox1111yeah.19:34
v1k0d3nwell, i think that container is good, but compiled tools/scripts can be copied to the main control host or group of hosts.19:35
v1k0d3nif the container gets messed up, i guess you can always rollback, and i like things in containers, but if the container gets messed up, user has no way to control anymore.19:36
v1k0d3njust thinking through19:36
kfox1111its python. I don't think we will compile them ever.19:36
v1k0d3nmaybe it's not even an issue.19:36
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v1k0d3nwell, i know...sorry...bad example.19:36
kfox1111we just have to seperate config from the container.19:36
kfox1111so the config outlasts the container.19:37
kfox1111you then think of the container as the compiled program.19:37
rhalliseylooks good kfox111119:37
kfox1111I do stuff like 'docker -it --rm -v/a:/b mycontainer myprogram "$*" ' in a bash script.19:37
rhalliseywe'll move to two +2's when the core team expands19:37
kfox1111then you can call "myprogram --foo" and it does stuff. but all containerized. :)19:38
kfox1111rhallisey: thanks.19:38
kfox1111yeah. more eyes woudl be good. but its just too hard with so few people.19:38
v1k0d3nyeah, i get it.19:38
openstackgerritMerged openstack/kolla-kubernetes: Modular gate  https://review.openstack.org/38696619:38
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/kolla-kubernetes: Multinode Gate & Misc fixes  https://review.openstack.org/38929919:39
sdakekfox1111 sbezverk is on pto until the 15th19:40
kfox1111sdake: ok. thanks. :)19:41
kfox1111amrith19:42
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v1k0d3nv1k off one plane and then onto the next soon.19:58
v1k0d3nlater peeps19:58
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sdakedims about?20:20
dimssdake : hey20:20
sdakesup dims, you going to kubecon - iirc you weren't20:21
dimscould not make it20:21
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sdakedims right - thought so thanks20:26
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jemcevoyHo do I set the dns search path for the VM... With Nova Network I set dhcp_domain in the nova.conf.  It looks like Neutron uses dns_domain  but I cannot figure out how to get the value set...  I created /etc/kolla/config/neutron/neutron.conf  containing: [DEFAULT] \n dns_domain = scm.penguincomputing.com penguincomputing.com21:33
jemcevoythen ran /home/jmcevoy/Kolla/kolla/tools/kolla-ansible reconfigure -i /home/jmcevoy/Kolla/kolla/ansible/inventory/multinode21:34
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imcsk8is there a way to stop a service using a kolla command?22:21
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Pavoevening22:24
v1k0d3nafternoon22:24
v1k0d3n:)22:24
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openstackgerritBorneMace proposed openstack/kolla: Added support for a stop playbook in kolla  https://review.openstack.org/38825423:09
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